Werekill wrote: I played a very similar list against Tau recently. Main changes were a third warrior squad instead of immortals, a transcendent C'tan instead of destroyers (don't own any yet).
It was against Tau, and he mostly had taken the invuln saves on his big suits. He also didn't deep strike in a commander and three crisis suits in on turn 1, for some reason. He later said it was to hit me when I'm not entrenched in a position anymore, due to my warriors being spread and excellently screening. I even daisy chained them turn 2 to keep him from striking behind me. In addition, he oddly focused my Scarabs instead of my warriors at first.
It worked fairly well, minus his strange play. At first. My warriors survived for a good while, being surprisingly durable between the warlord trait and improved reanimating stratagem.
But as time went on, he ended up slowly whittling me away. My C'tan got some good wounds on his commander and suits, but even with the +1 saves trait, he simply disengaged and shot it to death since the Scarabs had slowly been wiped away. In fact, I think the flamers from the crisis suits ended up doing it in. Very badly.
Maybe my arks were rolling badly, but I couldn't hit gak with them. And even when the hits got in, he usually hit his invuln (either a 4++ upgrade or the 3++ on his riptides) saves.
I don't think the list has enough offence to push back hard enough. I survived, sure, but it definitely ended in my loss.
Sounds like what you missed was exactly something like a Destroyer or a Tomb Blade unit.
I honestly see a C'tan shard that isn't the Deceiver as a defensive tool rather than an offensive one. They need a large unit of Scarabs as screen to move up the board and they aren't that fast (unless you pick the 12" advance for the T. C'tan). Those Scarabs are better of screening against deepstrike, holding an objective or moving up the board themselves as distraction.
and secondly I prefer the Nightbringer over a T. C'tan. He's 15 points cheaper, brings a powerful shooting attack and is better in melee against any non-vehicle unit with T4+. Especially with Entropic Strike you can really do a number on any unit with him.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, I'm going over the detachment rules again, and I can't find any restrictions for the Auxillary Support Detachment, other that it costs you a CP and the unit in this detachment can never be under-strength.
So, what is stopping us from taking an Auxillary Support Detachment of 6x Nephrekh Destroyers? Sure it will cost 2 CP to have them deepstrike, but that's worth it over the tax you'd have to pay compared to running an Outrider detachment specifically for the Destroyers. Not to mention that you can get the CP for deepstriking back if you have a Sautekh Warlord. Just make sure he is on the board before you use the deepstrike stratagem, or else it doesn't work.
Doctoralex wrote: what is stopping us from taking an Auxillary Support Detachment of 6x Nephrekh Destroyers? Sure it will cost 2 CP to have them deepstrike, but that's worth it over the tax you'd have to pay compared to running an Outrider detachment specifically for the Destroyers. Not to mention that you can get the CP for deepstriking back if you have a Sautekh Warlord. Just make sure he is on the board before you use the deepstrike stratagem, or else it doesn't work.
The tax in their case is actually pretty decent.
Nephrekh Scarabs are fantastic objective grabbers, and your HQ choice will still be pretty handy if you take Szeras, a D.Lord or a CCB.
Sounds like what you missed was exactly something like a Destroyer or a Tomb Blade unit.
Truncated a little bit - so is that our go-to strategy against Tau players? Can Destroyers and Tomb Blades pump out enough damage to rival the Tau at range?
One of my buddies is running Tau, and I need some advice on what to field.
The Ctan is a valuable tool in our belt to use, but I think the deceiver is a better option than the generic one. It's a shame too, it seems gw put some effort into making the generic one at least interesting, but if I am taking a base one I am running a c'tan list.
Nightbringer, Deceiver, and transcendent, with a tesseract vault, and using everything else at my disposal to simply protect these guys. That would mean wraiths, scarabs, and tomb blades / destroyers probably. Can you imagine grand illusion making the vault start out 13" away from the enemy front line?
As for tau, I think we have to beat them at their own game to win. That means if they rapid fire at 15" stay at 24" and trade shot for shot. They drop in suits, we use deathmarks as a straight up counter. They have their riptide sitting out back shooting us? DDA'S can bring the hurt back their way. And our destroyer bomb can break a back line easy without even having to drop into the back lines. It's really one hell of a trick to have up our sleeves.
Azuza001 wrote: The Ctan is a valuable tool in our belt to use, but I think the deceiver is a better option than the generic one. It's a shame too, it seems gw put some effort into making the generic one at least interesting, but if I am taking a base one I am running a c'tan list.
Nightbringer, Deceiver, and transcendent, with a tesseract vault, and using everything else at my disposal to simply protect these guys. That would mean wraiths, scarabs, and tomb blades / destroyers probably. Can you imagine grand illusion making the vault start out 13" away from the enemy front line?
As for tau, I think we have to beat them at their own game to win. That means if they rapid fire at 15" stay at 24" and trade shot for shot. They drop in suits, we use deathmarks as a straight up counter. They have their riptide sitting out back shooting us? DDA'S can bring the hurt back their way. And our destroyer bomb can break a back line easy without even having to drop into the back lines. It's really one hell of a trick to have up our sleeves.
Tau have Drones, which can tank your 6 damage wound on those heavy firepower units with just one Mortal wound and then use the FnP to ignore it.....
Because of that, Maybe Meperit Tomb Blades is also must take if you know you are fighting Tau, They are the most sufficient Drone cleaner just out of my head. Let them kill those drones first then fire your Destroyers, and DDA at the real target.
Actually, thinking about it, a Flayed One pack dropping in with Destroyers would make a pretty good distraction. Obviously the main threat is going to be the Destroyers... but they will NEED to take care of those FO (they cannot afford to allow them into combat), so that will be less firepower directed at your other more important guys. Either way for us is a win! (either our Destroyers take less shots or their shooty guys get tied up)
But as for Mephrit Tomb Blades, I completely agree. The only question is what to arm them with? Tesla is going to put out a ton of hits, especially if you pop Talent for Annihilation, but Gauss is going to be putting out some good quality S5 AP-3 shots. (in either case you're going to need to be in Tau rapid fire range to be able to make use of Mephrit's code, so bigger squad number is probably going to be required to have a better chance of getting RP).
Azuza001 wrote: The Ctan is a valuable tool in our belt to use, but I think the deceiver is a better option than the generic one. It's a shame too, it seems gw put some effort into making the generic one at least interesting, but if I am taking a base one I am running a c'tan list.
Nightbringer, Deceiver, and transcendent, with a tesseract vault, and using everything else at my disposal to simply protect these guys. That would mean wraiths, scarabs, and tomb blades / destroyers probably. Can you imagine grand illusion making the vault start out 13" away from the enemy front line?
As for tau, I think we have to beat them at their own game to win. That means if they rapid fire at 15" stay at 24" and trade shot for shot. They drop in suits, we use deathmarks as a straight up counter. They have their riptide sitting out back shooting us? DDA'S can bring the hurt back their way. And our destroyer bomb can break a back line easy without even having to drop into the back lines. It's really one hell of a trick to have up our sleeves.
Tau have Drones, which can tank your 6 damage wound on those heavy firepower units with just one Mortal wound and then use the FnP to ignore it.....
Because of that, Maybe Meperit Tomb Blades is also must take if you know you are fighting Tau, They are the most sufficient Drone cleaner just out of my head. Let them kill those drones first then fire your Destroyers, and DDA at the real target.
One think I'll mention is I played tau for the first time in a while and don't make the same mistake I did.
The were 2 squads of gun drones with 2 riptides to guard them . I didn't realise they were separate squads as they had been bunched up tightly and as a result I didn't split fire so all my shots were wasted on 1 group.
I understand it's a rookie mistake, but make sure you know what your shooting when it comes to gun drones. I still won the game because I completed the objectives and focused down my opponents infantry leaving the riptide standing. They are scary, but can only kill so many units a turn and depending on how they're outfitted they'll struggle to shift 20 man warriors squads
Edit: also a mephrit CCB is awesome at picking of markerlight characters. Without markerlights tau shooting barely touches tomb blades with there -1 they hit on 5's
Hey guys, I’m considering getting into Necrons and have a few questions:
1) what units tend to be a nice core to use?
2) are lychguard any good? And what’s the best way to arm them/use them?
3) People say monoliths are bad but can they have a place in an army?
4) would Doom Scythes with the Sautekh dynasty be reliable anti-tank/monster?
5) are Wraiths good now that they do 2dmg?
6) can you make a good army without destroyers?
Tiberius501 wrote: Hey guys, I’m considering getting into Necrons and have a few questions:
1) what units tend to be a nice core to use?
2) are lychguard any good? And what’s the best way to arm them/use them?
3) People say monoliths are bad but can they have a place in an army?
4) would Doom Scythes with the Sautekh dynasty be reliable anti-tank/monster?
5) are Wraiths good now that they do 2dmg?
6) can you make a good army without destroyers?
Trying to answer with nearly no gaming experience, but reading the whole thread:
1) immortals, tomb blades, destroyers, dda, scarabs
2) sadly, no. But if you use them, sword and board
3) 100% for the fluffiness! But if you want to use a big model, the tesseract vault is the better choice.
4) dont know
5) i would say they are "good enough"
6) you would probably miss a lot of punchiness.
So, what is stopping us from taking an Auxillary Support Detachment of 6x Nephrekh Destroyers? Sure it will cost 2 CP to have them deepstrike, but that's worth it over the tax you'd have to pay compared to running an Outrider detachment specifically for the Destroyers. Not to mention that you can get the CP for deepstriking back if you have a Sautekh Warlord. Just make sure he is on the board before you use the deepstrike stratagem, or else it doesn't work.
Thats actually a good idea. In our meta we play a lot of 1k point multiplayer games. What you guys saying about that list?
Thinking about it, rolling for the Split Personality upgrades for the T-C'tan is actually the way to go. If one of the rolls is a 1 or a 2, you are good to go. Whatever the other roll is will serve as a nice extra bonus.
The only risk you get is rolling doubles, which might grant you just one bad upgrade. However, if really needed you can use a CP to re-roll one of them.
The counter-argument to this is that if you pick your upgrade you can adapt to whatever your opponent has, since you can choose it while you are looking at your opponents army.
With a large enough sword and board lychguard unit. I'm thinking against any decently shooty army. I veil of darkness them into 9" range. If I get a charge off I can delete a unit. Then if I fail the charge or I wipe the unit/he falls back I can be prepared to pop the dispersement shield stratagem and hopefully dish out a bunch of mortal wounds. At the very least I can scare my opponent into not shooting that target. Since it lasts for the whole phase.
Tiberius501 wrote: 1) what units tend to be a nice core to use?
2) are lychguard any good? And what’s the best way to arm them/use them?
3) People say monoliths are bad but can they have a place in an army?
4) would Doom Scythes with the Sautekh dynasty be reliable anti-tank/monster?
5) are Wraiths good now that they do 2dmg?
6) can you make a good army without destroyers?
1) 2:1 ratio of Immortals to Warriors is alright. Tesla Immortals just straight up superior if given MWBD, though, so I don't even think about Warriors any more. Consider 2-3 Doomsday Arks and a medium to large sized unit of Tomb Blades, too. And a couple small units of Scarabs with a 5-6 strong unit of Destroyers in a Nephrekh Outrider, obviously.
2) no.
3) they aren't worth it.
4) they're not so bad that way, but there's probably better stuff to spend points on.
5) they're okay.
6) it's possible, but including a unit of Nephrekh Destroyers is just so worth it.
Hey guys, thanks for the answers. Shame about the lychguard. I'm considering Praetorians with the blades and pistols (what's with the staves being worse in every way...?). They seem to be able to do what the lychguard can but have the speed to pull it off and fearlessness is always sweet. A unit of 10 a waste of points? I'm not quite certain on what's particularly good, other than obviously Destroyers but I want to make a good list that's different
Idea is for the Destroyers to DS next to the Deceiver, who is moving Wraiths, CCB and Cloaktek (in that order), Chronotek sticking to the Immortals (unless 1st turn DDA problems), DDA with a Scarab screen. Cloaktek can Veil to or Veil out the CCB if needed or move back to the DDA. Pistols on Wraiths or 7 Scarab bases (1x7 or 1x4 and 1x3). Sautekh for Canoptek CP recovery goodness. Yes, it is that much fun to watch your opponent's face when they think your linebreaker Wraiths are all but wiped out, only to see the unit go from 1 model to another 3-6 model screen for the Deceiver and melee CCB.
Idea is for the Destroyers to DS next to the Deceiver, who is moving Wraiths, CCB and Cloaktek (in that order), Chronotek sticking to the Immortals (unless 1st turn DDA problems), DDA with a Scarab screen. Cloaktek can Veil to or Veil out the CCB if needed or move back to the DDA. Pistols on Wraiths or 7 Scarab bases (1x7 or 1x4 and 1x3). Sautekh for Canoptek CP recovery goodness. Yes, it is that much fun to watch your opponent's face when they think your linebreaker Wraiths are all but wiped out, only to see the unit go from 1 model to another 3-6 model screen for the Deceiver and melee CCB.
Looking good! Just give the Veil to the Sautekh Cryptek. The bearer has to be of the same Dynasty as the unit is is teleporting. This can also give you the option of veiling foward the Gauss Immortals, resulting in an even stronger alpha-strike.
So, what is stopping us from taking an Auxillary Support Detachment of 6x Nephrekh Destroyers? Sure it will cost 2 CP to have them deepstrike, but that's worth it over the tax you'd have to pay compared to running an Outrider detachment specifically for the Destroyers. Not to mention that you can get the CP for deepstriking back if you have a Sautekh Warlord. Just make sure he is on the board before you use the deepstrike stratagem, or else it doesn't work.
Thats actually a good idea. In our meta we play a lot of 1k point multiplayer games. What you guys saying about that list?
I dont like it, as Necron you should be taking max size units all the time. These 5 Immortals will just die and Never get a chance to RP! RP is the cornerstone of Necrons. The you have no Cryptek. He improves RP by 50%!
Using the Storm Lord is cool with 2 max size Tesla Immortals, but then they die to the first volley and a 200 pts Character is loosing value.
What is the plan What is your strategy? I think that when charecters are left out in the open they will die fast. And you have a huger number of points tied up in charecters, 33%, that is too much IMHO.
mhalko1 wrote:With a large enough sword and board lychguard unit. I'm thinking against any decently shooty army. I veil of darkness them into 9" range. If I get a charge off I can delete a unit. Then if I fail the charge or I wipe the unit/he falls back I can be prepared to pop the dispersement shield stratagem and hopefully dish out a bunch of mortal wounds. At the very least I can scare my opponent into not shooting that target. Since it lasts for the whole phase.
I have been looking at other lists and Necron CC got shafted. Im probably going to end up with some Lynchguards (Forgbane) but I dont know if I would ever use them in a general setup. Maybe if you know the enemy and maybe his general setup they might be useful for a specific tactic. But why take somthing not so useful when you can take somthing useful?
340 pts for 10 Lychguards VS 354 pts for 6 Wraiths
5" vs 12" movement
20 vs 18 Wounds
3+/4++/RP vs 4+/3++/(2CP Repair Subroutines)
20 AP3 D1 vs 18 AP2 D2 attacks
Nothing vs pistol (fall back shoot & charge + Wraith form)
Dispersion field amplification (2CP) vs Adaptive subroutines (1CP). The second is both cheaper and more useful as it gets you into CC faster!
Biggest problem for Lychguard is movement. CC infantry not in CC is a waste of points.
The only thing making Lychguard almost as good as Pratorians is Nephrekh dynasty (+6" advance) vs no dynasty. Then it boils down to 4++ vs 20 attacks (10 shooting & 10 CC attacks (-1S))
Nightfish wrote:Attempt at a TAC list, opponents could be Dark Angels, Chaos Marines (no idea on legion) and/or Chaos Demons.
Idea is for the Destroyers to DS next to the Deceiver, who is moving Wraiths, CCB and Cloaktek (in that order), Chronotek sticking to the Immortals (unless 1st turn DDA problems), DDA with a Scarab screen. Cloaktek can Veil to or Veil out the CCB if needed or move back to the DDA. Pistols on Wraiths or 7 Scarab bases (1x7 or 1x4 and 1x3). Sautekh for Canoptek CP recovery goodness. Yes, it is that much fun to watch your opponent's face when they think your linebreaker Wraiths are all but wiped out, only to see the unit go from 1 model to another 3-6 model screen for the Deceiver and melee CCB.
Give it a try, btw. you cant Veil the CCB, its character keyword not infantry.
Idea is for the Destroyers to DS next to the Deceiver, who is moving Wraiths, CCB and Cloaktek (in that order), Chronotek sticking to the Immortals (unless 1st turn DDA problems), DDA with a Scarab screen. Cloaktek can Veil to or Veil out the CCB if needed or move back to the DDA. Pistols on Wraiths or 7 Scarab bases (1x7 or 1x4 and 1x3). Sautekh for Canoptek CP recovery goodness. Yes, it is that much fun to watch your opponent's face when they think your linebreaker Wraiths are all but wiped out, only to see the unit go from 1 model to another 3-6 model screen for the Deceiver and melee CCB.
Looking good! Just give the Veil to the Sautekh Cryptek. The bearer has to be of the same Dynasty as the unit is is teleporting. This can also give you the option of veiling foward the Gauss Immortals, resulting in an even stronger alpha-strike.
Bah, /selfsmack Screwed up in more than one place regarding the Crypteks. Complete brain cramp on my part.
Tiberius501 wrote: Hey guys, thanks for the answers. Shame about the lychguard. I'm considering Praetorians with the blades and pistols (what's with the staves being worse in every way...?). They seem to be able to do what the lychguard can but have the speed to pull it off and fearlessness is always sweet. A unit of 10 a waste of points? I'm not quite certain on what's particularly good, other than obviously Destroyers but I want to make a good list that's different
Praetorians are more of the same. I'm looking at converting the Lychguard into Immortals, or just making a 10 strong unit of LG and waiting to 9th edition (so next year.../s)
You can also use the Lychguard sprues to make some dope Character conversions. My Overlord is a converted Lychguard, I've seen people make some good DLords out of them as well.
I might be totally off my rocker here, and this might be a YMDC thread in the making, but based on the following dynastic code....
Advance 6" automatically (7" with MWBD) and ignore terrain & models.
Does that mean Nephrek units can....advance out of combat without withdrawal penalties since they ignore models and terrain? Or am I just totally nuts.
iGuy91 wrote: I might be totally off my rocker here, and this might be a YMDC thread in the making, but based on the following dynastic code....
Advance 6" automatically (7" with MWBD) and ignore terrain & models.
Does that mean Nephrek units can....advance out of combat without withdrawal penalties since they ignore models and terrain? Or am I just totally nuts.
Can't advance out of a fallback, can't move without falling back if within 1" of an enemy.
iGuy91 wrote: I might be totally off my rocker here, and this might be a YMDC thread in the making, but based on the following dynastic code....
Advance 6" automatically (7" with MWBD) and ignore terrain & models.
Does that mean Nephrek units can....advance out of combat without withdrawal penalties since they ignore models and terrain? Or am I just totally nuts.
Can't advance out of a fallback, can't move without falling back if within 1" of an enemy.
Figured there was a restriction like that. Thanks!
Warlord Trait (Mephrit): Merciless Tyrant
Add 6" to the maximum range of all Assault weapons fired by your Warlord. In addition, your Warlord can shoot Assault weapons at enemy CHARACTERS even if they are not the closest enemy model.
Catacomb Command Barge [9 PL, 161pts]:
Artefact (Mephrit): The Voltaic Staff, Tesla Cannon.
Warlord Trait (Mephrit): Merciless Tyrant
Add 6" to the maximum range of all Assault weapons fired by your Warlord. In addition, your Warlord can shoot Assault weapons at enemy CHARACTERS even if they are not the closest enemy model.
Catacomb Command Barge [9 PL, 161pts]:
Artefact (Mephrit): The Voltaic Staff, Tesla Cannon.
18" 3shots S6, AP-4, 2D
30" 3shots S6, Ap-1, 1D
Sweet!
Don't forget at half range all weapons get an aditional AP 'cause of Mephrit Dynasty trait!
Warlord Trait (Mephrit): Merciless Tyrant
Add 6" to the maximum range of all Assault weapons fired by your Warlord. In addition, your Warlord can shoot Assault weapons at enemy CHARACTERS even if they are not the closest enemy model.
Catacomb Command Barge [9 PL, 161pts]:
Artefact (Mephrit): The Voltaic Staff, Tesla Cannon.
18" 3shots S6, AP-4, 2D
30" 3shots S6, Ap-1, 1D
Sweet!
Don't forget at half range all weapons get an aditional AP 'cause of Mephrit Dynasty trait!
deltaKshatriya wrote: So what's the overall verdict, now that the codex is out? Necrons yay or nay?
Much better than Index. Stratagems alone make them more viable, point drops and Warlord Traits are the cherry on top. However, no facekicker builds have sussed themselves out yet, so we'll see how competitive they are from a top level sense. At the very least, they'll be quite competitive on the mid-tables, I think they'll have good or at least even matchups against a lot of armies.
deltaKshatriya wrote: So what's the overall verdict, now that the codex is out? Necrons yay or nay?
Much better than Index. Stratagems alone make them more viable, point drops and Warlord Traits are the cherry on top. However, no facekicker builds have sussed themselves out yet, so we'll see how competitive they are from a top level sense. At the very least, they'll be quite competitive on the mid-tables, I think they'll have good or at least even matchups against a lot of armies.
Well that's good to know. There's some armies which are just top tiered dominant right now, especially with certain builds.
deltaKshatriya wrote: So what's the overall verdict, now that the codex is out? Necrons yay or nay?
Much better than Index. Stratagems alone make them more viable, point drops and Warlord Traits are the cherry on top. However, no facekicker builds have sussed themselves out yet, so we'll see how competitive they are from a top level sense. At the very least, they'll be quite competitive on the mid-tables, I think they'll have good or at least even matchups against a lot of armies.
Well that's good to know. There's some armies which are just top tiered dominant right now, especially with certain builds.
Wait for Spring FAQ, I imagine it's going to shake up a lot of stuff and Necrons will be too recent to be hit by it, not that we have anything egregious.
I'm going to run this list next week. TB for killing low armor hordes, will replace C'Tan for + 2x6 TB once i'll paint them.
Barebones TB with casters are assault 3 S6 each. Which wounds guard and other T3 hordes on 2s AND costs MUCH cheaper.
Cryptek repaires DDA OR gives reanimation bonus depends on opponent priority.
2 Outriders, 5CP, -1 for DS Destroyers.
1999pts
Spoiler:
Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Nephrekh
+ Heavy Support +
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
+ HQ +
Catacomb Command Barge: Artefact: Lightning Field, Gauss Cannon, Warscythe
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Nephrekh): Skin of Living Gold
Cryptek: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light
+ Elites +
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer: Power of the C'tan: Sky of Falling Stars
deltaKshatriya wrote: So what's the overall verdict, now that the codex is out? Necrons yay or nay?
Much better than Index. Stratagems alone make them more viable, point drops and Warlord Traits are the cherry on top. However, no facekicker builds have sussed themselves out yet, so we'll see how competitive they are from a top level sense. At the very least, they'll be quite competitive on the mid-tables, I think they'll have good or at least even matchups against a lot of armies.
Well that's good to know. There's some armies which are just top tiered dominant right now, especially with certain builds.
Wait for Spring FAQ, I imagine it's going to shake up a lot of stuff and Necrons will be too recent to be hit by it, not that we have anything egregious.
Considering the current version of our codex was written nearly half a year ago I wouldn't rule the FAQ out of affecting us. We will be getting an FAQ anyway in just under a couple of weeks as per the usual 2 week codex FAQ so these changes might not be included, but some things will probably change
I'm very curious to see what the spring faq will do. There are some rumors swirling that it may change the detachment rules to discourage soup lists, but we'll see.
Could Kutlakh the world killer make lych guard worth running? He gives them some maneuverability, although I worry that he's way overcosted to make that worth it.
Werekill wrote: I'm very curious to see what the spring faq will do. There are some rumors swirling that it may change the detachment rules to discourage soup lists, but we'll see.
Could Kutlakh the world killer make lych guard worth running? He gives them some maneuverability, although I worry that he's way overcosted to make that worth it.
He's pretty expensive yeah. However I DO think he is worth using as long as you treat his code as Nephrekh.
Werekill wrote: I'm very curious to see what the spring faq will do. There are some rumors swirling that it may change the detachment rules to discourage soup lists, but we'll see.
Could Kutlakh the world killer make lych guard worth running? He gives them some maneuverability, although I worry that he's way overcosted to make that worth it.
I don't think GW will discourage soup lists, Some of the recent releases like custodes seem pretty dependent on that list style. Besides they seem to have bigger fish to fry with the way Tyranids did at adepticon, and them delaying the FAQ to address the issues.
Very true. I guess we will have to just wait and see.
Random question, how would you guys break the joint for the arches connecting to the body of a ghost ark? I'm trying to swap them to doomsday arks since I saved the gun, and it's old super glue instead of the melting Citadel glue.
I could just stick the gun in the middle since I left that joint exposed, but I prefer the looks of the arches pointing down.
So Nihilakh grants our Doomsday Arks a reroll on a to-hit of 1.
And the Triarch Stalker does the same.
But the Stalker costs 171 points (assuming HGC), and has to be set up much closer to the enemy so will be more vulnerable. Plus its reroll buff can only be given against a single unit per Stalker.
On the other hand, a Nihilakh Spearhead will require you to take at minimum 3 heavy choices and an HQ. If you only wanted to take one or two DDAs that's pretty inconvenient. (build I'm working with right now has a couple Arks, a Gloom-Fab Spyder and a Cloak-tek. Not exactly optimal, but I needed something under 550 points)
My other option is to just add two DDAs to another Dynasty's detachment. I guess it wouldn't be so bad with Sautekh, but then I miss out on those vital to-hit rerolls.
I was looking at that same setup for a small detachment with nihilakh, I decided against it because the gloom spider isn't going to be doing anything, the chances your opponent would damage both DDA's in a single turn are low, more likely to focus one down to death, which means either they cloak tek or spider is doing something but the other isn't. Cloak tek can't be targeted but spider can deny the witch. In the end I dropped the spider and decided on an annihilation barge and dropped points elsewhere. I figured that if it's going in the list it needs a job, we can't afford tax units. Wasting 57 pts just for a command point is not going to be worth it.
Alternatively you could go destroyerlord and spider, the Lord won't get any bonus from nihilakh, but it can run interference and possibly harass some units / give an unsuspecting small squad a bad day.
Azuza001 wrote: the chances your opponent would damage both DDA's in a single turn are low, more likely to focus one down to death, which means either they cloak tek or spider is doing something but the other isn't.
2) are lychguard any good? And what’s the best way to arm them/use them?
I've had success with lychguard with scythes. They work well against threats that is hard to remove by other army. Examples: some occasional rhino / other vehicle charging and engaging your shooting units, daemon princes which are hard to pin down with shooting due to them being characters, plague marines due to high resilent to immortal shots.
You need a way to deliver them though. Veil of mists \ Zandrekh + Obyron \ monolit \ nightscythe \ just advance them upfield 11" per turn under Nephrekh code until you reach an enemy.
So is there a C'tan /transcendent C'tan / tesseract vault heavy build that's even slightly viable? Keep in mind, I'm not a tournament player so local meta only
Could Kutlakh the world killer make lych guard worth running? He gives them some maneuverability, although I worry that he's way overcosted to make that worth it.
He's pretty expensive yeah. However I DO think he is worth using as long as you treat his code as Nephrekh.
Godeskian wrote: So is there a C'tan /transcendent C'tan / tesseract vault heavy build that's even slightly viable? Keep in mind, I'm not a tournament player so local meta only
Saw a build running a battalion immortals and warriors.
Godeskian wrote: So is there a C'tan /transcendent C'tan / tesseract vault heavy build that's even slightly viable? Keep in mind, I'm not a tournament player so local meta only
The Transcendant and Tesseract Vault both look pretty good on paper. I haven't been testing them out myself because I don't like the c'tan and there's plenty of other stuff to try, lol.
Speaking of which: destroyers. Worth the hype. As long as you have CP to feed them they will crush anything they look at and will continue to be a credible threat even once Extermination Protocols is off the table.
So I've played a few more games now and tried out a few different things. Figured I'd give a brief update on the weekends games
Was playing with a few mates on Saturday so we agreed to lock lists in for all games. I took:
Sautekh spearhead
Imotekh - WL 2 x DDA Tomb spyder [I'm a bell end and forgot to take the wargear to repair vehicles - this was all it was for originally... - ended up as scarab support only!]
Mephrit batallion
Overlord w/ veil
Cloaktek
2 x 10 tesla immortals
2 x 5 tesla immortals
10 scarabs
6 Gauss TBs 6 destros
___________
I played 3 games with this list - against Tau, BA/sisters and eldar. The list faired pretty well in all cases - won against tau and the BA/sisters list, lost to eldar. I would have struggled vs Tau if he got first turn as his dakka was pretty ridiculous even after I dropped two broadsides and a tonne of fire warriors T1. Against BA/sisters, he conceded T2 as I'd wiped the majority of his army. I used scarabs pushed up to screen and create a huge no mans land between them and the rest of my force. He didn't realise Scarabs had fly, so I hopped out of combat with his 15 man DC unit and dropped them pretty comfortably. If he knew about fly he would have played this different, so I'm not taking too much from this one yet.
The game against eldar was the real test. The guy I played is a good mate, and he's currently unbeaten in 70 games with this list. That include 3 tournaments, latest being battlefield Birmingham (ended 3rd I think on points). His list is actually pretty well balanced - all alaitoc; 10 reapers, 9 (I think) shining spears, few squads of dire avengers, 2 fire prisms, 2 hemlocks, asurmen, various warlocks/farseers. We played ETC style, so maelstrom + eternal mix. I ended up losing the game 19-14, but very happy with that considering it's the 5th game I've played with codex necrons. I won't run through the whole game, but main takeaways:
- DDAs really are great. They were pretty consistently putting out pain, and with the QS strat are really difficult to take down. Playing them sautekh works nicely too when they need to get on the move.
- Destros got popped turn 1 (again!) - seems to always be the way, but they do absorb a lot of shots so I think I'm fine with them getting focussed
- Tomb blades - I played them like a bit of a gakker so effectively got nothing out of them. When I finally got more aggressive with them, they got one shot by a hemlock so never actually got a chance to do anything with them.
- Scarabs are great as always for pressing upfield, capping objectives and generally being a nuisance. The exploding strat is really handy too.
- Imotekh was great again. Storm dropped 5 reapers T1 which really really helped (at least until FAQ'd, it looks like storm doesn't require LoS), and he was surprisingly useful plodding around midfield (with immortals) and shooting things with his staff.
- Linked fire prisms are quite annoying! Hemlocks are equally annoying - hard to kill and bracketing them makes no difference (as the weapon auto hits). They are crazy mobile so between 2 of them they just parade up and down your line dropping things.
- I had no psychic defence. Bit of a pain when he has so many strong buffing spells.
- Still very happy with how immortals are performing, especially as mephrit. In cover they are reasonably hard to shift, and put out some decent damage for the points.
Overall, I was really happy with how the list played. I need to think a bit about what I tweak from here, but initial thoughts are probably to try get a third DDA in. Dropping the spyder will give me 1/3 of the points I need, so just need to figure out how to rejig the rest.
Also, I do want to try some other different stuff like C'tan etc, but I think the core above fits my playstyle really well.
I think it covers all angles pretty well. 8 CP total (-1 for second Artifact) I have excellent Melee, mid range, and long range firepower. I've got the Spyder and the Cloaktek in the Spearhead detachment to hopefully keep the Doomsday Arks alive.
Novokh makes Wraiths even better. I wanted to have a Destroyer Lord, just did not have the points for it.
The toughest choice I had was between the Nihliahk or Sautekh for the Spearhead. I really like the Hyperlogic strategy, and this is the only place that a Sautekh detachment would fit in, but I went with the Nihalahk as I don't think I will be moving the DD Arks much. This is just something that will have to be played out. I had some Tomb Blades in, but I just couldn't find the points for them.
skoffs wrote: ^
I really hope you didn't have Imotekh giving two Immortal squads a turn MWBD, as that ability only can be done if both receiving units are Sautekh.
No, just one unit. The other overlord gave MWBD to the second 10 man squad, and the two 5 mans were really just for screening space/board control or whatever was needed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sasori wrote: So here is what I have come up with so far
I think it covers all angles pretty well. 8 CP total (-1 for second Artifact) I have excellent Melee, mid range, and long range firepower. I've got the Spyder and the Cloaktek in the Spearhead detachment to hopefully keep the Doomsday Arks alive.
Novokh makes Wraiths even better. I wanted to have a Destroyer Lord, just did not have the points for it.
The toughest choice I had was between the Nihliahk or Sautekh for the Spearhead. I really like the Hyperlogic strategy, and this is the only place that a Sautekh detachment would fit in, but I went with the Nihalahk as I don't think I will be moving the DD Arks much. This is just something that will have to be played out. I had some Tomb Blades in, but I just couldn't find the points for them.
If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears!
This is quite a similar base to where I started. After some playtesting I found the wraiths to be significantly less useful than I'd hoped, though not completely discounting them yet. In terms of dynasty for the DDAs, I have found Sautekh to be really useful; whilst they are ultimately hoping to sit back as a firebase in the early game, they often end up wanting to push up once the big targets are dealt with. Sautekh lets them do this much more effectively (either moving + shooting heavy with no penalty, or even advancing and still kicking out shots). Added benefit is unlocking hyperlogical strategist + the Sautekh strat. I like Imotekh a lot in this setup too. If you pair him with the DDAs, use his storm to inflict an unsaved wound (subject to FAQ, but I'd expect this to be fine) -> pop strat -> DDAs hitting on 2s. Very good way to delete a big nasty.
I think it covers all angles pretty well. 8 CP total (-1 for second Artifact) I have excellent Melee, mid range, and long range firepower. I've got the Spyder and the Cloaktek in the Spearhead detachment to hopefully keep the Doomsday Arks alive.
Novokh makes Wraiths even better. I wanted to have a Destroyer Lord, just did not have the points for it.
The toughest choice I had was between the Nihliahk or Sautekh for the Spearhead. I really like the Hyperlogic strategy, and this is the only place that a Sautekh detachment would fit in, but I went with the Nihalahk as I don't think I will be moving the DD Arks much. This is just something that will have to be played out. I had some Tomb Blades in, but I just couldn't find the points for them.
If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears!
Looks good, here are some tips:
-You wont need Immortal Pride if you dont run warrior blobs. Id say make the Novokh Overlord your warlord and give him either the re-roll failed charge rolls or the Nohokh WL.
-Speaking of the Novokh overlord, see if you can scrap some points somewhere and turn him intro a destroyer lord. His mobility allows HIM to keep up with the Wraiths.
-The Mephrit Overlord doesnt need a Warscythe, saves you a few points.
-since you have a decent amount of CP, you can opt to put the Destroyers in aan auxillary support detachment for 1 CP, but this allows you to make them Nephrekh, thus giving you the ability to deepstrike them.
skoffs wrote: ^
I really hope you didn't have Imotekh giving two Immortal squads a turn MWBD, as that ability only can be done if both receiving units are Sautekh.
No, just one unit. The other overlord gave MWBD to the second 10 man squad, and the two 5 mans were really just for screening space/board control or whatever was needed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sasori wrote: So here is what I have come up with so far
I think it covers all angles pretty well. 8 CP total (-1 for second Artifact) I have excellent Melee, mid range, and long range firepower. I've got the Spyder and the Cloaktek in the Spearhead detachment to hopefully keep the Doomsday Arks alive.
Novokh makes Wraiths even better. I wanted to have a Destroyer Lord, just did not have the points for it.
The toughest choice I had was between the Nihliahk or Sautekh for the Spearhead. I really like the Hyperlogic strategy, and this is the only place that a Sautekh detachment would fit in, but I went with the Nihalahk as I don't think I will be moving the DD Arks much. This is just something that will have to be played out. I had some Tomb Blades in, but I just couldn't find the points for them.
If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears!
This is quite a similar base to where I started. After some playtesting I found the wraiths to be significantly less useful than I'd hoped, though not completely discounting them yet. In terms of dynasty for the DDAs, I have found Sautekh to be really useful; whilst they are ultimately hoping to sit back as a firebase in the early game, they often end up wanting to push up once the big targets are dealt with. Sautekh lets them do this much more effectively (either moving + shooting heavy with no penalty, or even advancing and still kicking out shots). Added benefit is unlocking hyperlogical strategist + the Sautekh strat. I like Imotekh a lot in this setup too. If you pair him with the DDAs, use his storm to inflict an unsaved wound (subject to FAQ, but I'd expect this to be fine) -> pop strat -> DDAs hitting on 2s. Very good way to delete a big nasty.
Yeah, it's a tough choice between Nihilakh and Sautekh for the Spearhead. Immotekh is fantastic, but it would be even tougher to scrap together points for him. Hyperlogic Strategy is an amazing warlord trait, it is one of the best in the dex for sure. The Sautekh Stratagem is also pretty good when it goes of as well, it's hard to pass up. I will just need to do some playtesting to see if the rerolling 1's when not moving beats out being able to move without penalty and Hyperlogic Strategy. When you ran the Wraiths, did you run them at full squad size and Novokh? I feel like they will only pull their weight if they are Novokh, as the Dynasty code is pretty huge since they won't benefit from MWBD.
Doctoralex wrote:
Sasori wrote: So here is what I have come up with so far
Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Necrons) ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Mephrit
. Categories: No Force Org Slot
I think it covers all angles pretty well. 8 CP total (-1 for second Artifact) I have excellent Melee, mid range, and long range firepower. I've got the Spyder and the Cloaktek in the Spearhead detachment to hopefully keep the Doomsday Arks alive.
Novokh makes Wraiths even better. I wanted to have a Destroyer Lord, just did not have the points for it.
The toughest choice I had was between the Nihliahk or Sautekh for the Spearhead. I really like the Hyperlogic strategy, and this is the only place that a Sautekh detachment would fit in, but I went with the Nihalahk as I don't think I will be moving the DD Arks much. This is just something that will have to be played out. I had some Tomb Blades in, but I just couldn't find the points for them.
If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears!
Looks good, here are some tips:
-You wont need Immortal Pride if you dont run warrior blobs. Id say make the Novokh Overlord your warlord and give him either the re-roll failed charge rolls or the Nohokh WL.
-Speaking of the Novokh overlord, see if you can scrap some points somewhere and turn him intro a destroyer lord. His mobility allows HIM to keep up with the Wraiths.
-The Mephrit Overlord doesnt need a Warscythe, saves you a few points.
-since you have a decent amount of CP, you can opt to put the Destroyers in aan auxillary support detachment for 1 CP, but this allows you to make them Nephrekh, thus giving you the ability to deepstrike them.
You make a great point about Immortal Pride, That's an easy switch up. If I could find the points for a destroyer lord, it would be a no brainer to take either Crimson Haze or Implacable Conqueror. I tried to find the points for him, but there was just no where to squeeze out, unless I drop a Wraith, which may or may not be worth it.
I like the idea of setting up the Destroyers as Auxilary, but that does eat up two more command points essentially starting me with 5. That may be too low, but I'm not sure. It is a great idea though.
Azuza001 wrote: the chances your opponent would damage both DDA's in a single turn are low, more likely to focus one down to death, which means either they cloak tek or spider is doing something but the other isn't.
... or they could just both repair the Ark?
Hmm, for some reason I thought that you couldn't do that. Probably because the spider says a model can only be repaired once per turn, but the cryptek isn't repairing, it's boosting the living metal and that doesn't count as repairing. Good catch.
I literally just picked up the codex last night. So what's everyone opinion on the tomb blade? Is it going to be the most spammed necron unit? I mean it seems bonkers to me when you flesh it out. I gave it all the bells and whistles and a guass blaster for 33ppm. Keep a cryptek with a cape around to let them reroll 1s (thought I saw something in there about that) and make them solar for the extra AP. I don't know kinda gives me the shivers...but I could be completely wrong...
necron99 wrote: I literally just picked up the codex last night. So what's everyone opinion on the tomb blade? Is it going to be the most spammed necron unit? I mean it seems bonkers to me when you flesh it out. I gave it all the bells and whistles and a guass blaster for 33ppm. Keep a cryptek with a cape around to let them reroll 1s (thought I saw something in there about that) and make them solar for the extra AP. I don't know kinda gives me the shivers...but I could be completely wrong...
You can't reroll 1s with them. Cryptek just boosts their Reanimation Protocols, which is good since they're 2W models so bringing one back is dope.
I don't think spamming them will be the end-all-be-all. They's strong, sure, but they have their weaknesses (garbage in combat, weak to multi-damage things like Plasma, lowish model count means they can't play objectives as well, etc) and you really need a well rounded force to interact with the game, or something broken that you can spam. They're not as broken as things like Dark Reapers or Flyrants, but they're definitely worth taking.
necron99 wrote: I literally just picked up the codex last night. So what's everyone opinion on the tomb blade? Is it going to be the most spammed necron unit? I mean it seems bonkers to me when you flesh it out. I gave it all the bells and whistles and a guass blaster for 33ppm. Keep a cryptek with a cape around to let them reroll 1s (thought I saw something in there about that) and make them solar for the extra AP. I don't know kinda gives me the shivers...but I could be completely wrong...
I don't think there is anything in the Necron Codex that really yells "Spam me!" We have a ton of good choices, and I think a balanced all comers will have use them in a combined arms approach to be effective.
That being said, Tomb Blades are fantastic. My first lists don't have room for them, but I"ll likely be looking to at least try them out in a few games as I hone in on my final list.
Yeah, luckily there's a bunch of things that are good and worth taking, but not to the degree that you're going to want to spam them.
•Destroyers are great, but you can only give one of them Extermination Protocols a turn so most people will probably only be taking the one unit.
•Wraiths are decent, but I don't see the old Wraith-Wing style lists coming back this round.
•Scarabs are pretty sweet, but you'll probably only want a unit or two.
•Tomb Blades are fantastic, but I have a feeling they're only going to be taken as a single unit, maybe two.
•Doomsday Arks might be one of the few units in the book we'll regularly be seeing three of in a list, but that's probably mostly going to be to fulfill the Spearhead requirements.
•The Tesseract Vault is finally worth taking, but it'll be pretty rare to see multiple of them on a table.
I think it'll more be a case of seeing some regular staples in the majority of lists rather than something everyone will be abusing... until someone can find some way to break something.
My problem with the DDA is that in my meta we use the NOVA terrain setup so we have those two annoying LOS blockers in the middle of the table. Trying to come up with decent lanes of fire can be difficult. Too many of my peeps run something that just go through the those guys and pop out right in front of my DDA/LR/etc so I'm a little leery about long range shooters that don't like to move and/or need LOS...hence my love of manticores, bassilisks and mortars...
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Man you guys are quick with your lists. I'm still trying to complete mine hahaha
I still haven't settled on mine.
I know what I want to take but I'm having trouble balancing efficient points to CP ratio and settling on which Dynasty will be doing what Detachment role.
Right now I'm trying a 1000/500/500 split of Battalion/Outrider/Spearhead, figuring if I can make it modular I can switch things out more easily.
Soooo, lets talk deceiver tactics.
Whats the best unit to infiltrate? How do you use him if you go second? Do you send the deciver himself to the front or keep him safe in your lines?
Hello Gentleman, I have a 1k tournament coming up in a few weeks and I could really use your help. The missions are straight up random Eternal War missions on 4x4 tables. Its 2 detachment limit too.
First, let me list what I have readily available and painted.
What I have to add in the next coming weeks:
1 extra DDA 1 extra DLord 3 extra T. Blades
3 extra Wraiths
Tomb Spyder/Transcendant C'tan (Converted mini)
Now as far as listbuilding goes I feel like many of the tricks and strategies we are discussing here are hard to pull off at 1000 points. The base of 2-3 DDAs is simply too much at that level, and not even required, really. At this play level we are also starved for CPs as our battalion is expensive, but in hindsight Reanimation Protocols are more powerful due to the scale of the game.
Silver Tide My first list tries to keep the DDA oriented builds and double-down on RP with Immortal Pride. The Dynasty can be either Nihilakh or Sautekh to guarantee the DDA will perform. I'm leaning towards Sautekh to allow the DDA to join the fray after the first few turns.
The plan with this list is to deploy midfield with the infantry and the DDA in the back screened by scarabs, trusting that RP and QS will keep me alive longer than the enemy. The single DDA is an issue as if it falls, I seriously lack firepower to take on high T, high W units, but the mix of Gauss and Tesla Immortals should be good against anything else. CC armies are a pain though as I lack enough scarabs to properly fence-off anything else.
Destroyer pals This list aims at doubling up on DDA potential and making them more survivable with the Spider (either they waste shots at it or I repair back some of the damage dealt). It really needs the DDAs to follow up after mop-up to support the D-lords and Wraiths midfield as I don't have troops to really capture objectives with and must play for the murdering strategy. The nice thing is that only provides bad targets as its either scarabs, 3++ wraiths os QS DDAs.
C'tan block party This list aims at being a mortal wound engine with 3 c'tan. Any chaff should be no trouble for the Bloodscythe D-lord and the scarabs to eat through with exploding 6's, exposing anyone for the mortal wounds and eventual C'tan charges. The neat thing is that there are really no targets turn 1 but scarabs, but that also means that everything my opponent has will likely be thrown at them T1 if I lose init. Optimal charges and consolidations would be key for this list, but the scarabs, D-lord and C'tan have the movement to really be up at the enemy face really fast.
Assassins My last list is an attempt at using the assassin trait on a CCB at 1000 points. Not only can it really cripple the enemy army, it can also put me at a 1 point advantage due to Slay the Warlord. The infantry gets really scary with -1 AP as enemies close in and the DDA can either keep me covered from long range or be swapped for a C'tan to counter any charges from the enemy.
What do you guys think of my lists and strategies? Any help could be really useful as I don't get to play much in my area, but I do follow the thread in detail and really want to bring the hurt to the tables to show everyone how scary Necrons can be!
stormcraft wrote: Soooo, lets talk deceiver tactics.
Whats the best unit to infiltrate? How do you use him if you go second? Do you send the deciver himself to the front or keep him safe in your lines?
So many options....
I really, really want to slingshot a TV up field and put the Deceiver behind it. Though I also plan on Deep Striking in some Destroyers and Veil-ing up some stuff too, in order to really put a lot of pressure up front.
Also, kind of off topic, but I was thinking of recording the game and making it into a battle report. Would any of you guys have any interest in watching it? Sorry if this isn't allowed Skoffs. Will edit/delete if necessary.
Also, kind of off topic, but I was thinking of recording the game and making it into a battle report. Would any of you guys have any interest in watching it? Sorry if this isn't allowed Skoffs. Will edit/delete if necessary.
arhurt wrote: Hello Gentleman, I have a 1k tournament coming up in a few weeks and I could really use your help. The missions are straight up random Eternal War missions on 4x4 tables. Its 2 detachment limit too.
First, let me list what I have readily available and painted.
What I have to add in the next coming weeks:
1 extra DDA 1 extra DLord 3 extra T. Blades
3 extra Wraiths
Tomb Spyder/Transcendant C'tan (Converted mini)
Now as far as listbuilding goes I feel like many of the tricks and strategies we are discussing here are hard to pull off at 1000 points. The base of 2-3 DDAs is simply too much at that level, and not even required, really. At this play level we are also starved for CPs as our battalion is expensive, but in hindsight Reanimation Protocols are more powerful due to the scale of the game.
Silver Tide My first list tries to keep the DDA oriented builds and double-down on RP with Immortal Pride. The Dynasty can be either Nihilakh or Sautekh to guarantee the DDA will perform. I'm leaning towards Sautekh to allow the DDA to join the fray after the first few turns.
The plan with this list is to deploy midfield with the infantry and the DDA in the back screened by scarabs, trusting that RP and QS will keep me alive longer than the enemy. The single DDA is an issue as if it falls, I seriously lack firepower to take on high T, high W units, but the mix of Gauss and Tesla Immortals should be good against anything else. CC armies are a pain though as I lack enough scarabs to properly fence-off anything else.
Destroyer pals This list aims at doubling up on DDA potential and making them more survivable with the Spider (either they waste shots at it or I repair back some of the damage dealt). It really needs the DDAs to follow up after mop-up to support the D-lords and Wraiths midfield as I don't have troops to really capture objectives with and must play for the murdering strategy. The nice thing is that only provides bad targets as its either scarabs, 3++ wraiths os QS DDAs.
C'tan block party This list aims at being a mortal wound engine with 3 c'tan. Any chaff should be no trouble for the Bloodscythe D-lord and the scarabs to eat through with exploding 6's, exposing anyone for the mortal wounds and eventual C'tan charges. The neat thing is that there are really no targets turn 1 but scarabs, but that also means that everything my opponent has will likely be thrown at them T1 if I lose init. Optimal charges and consolidations would be key for this list, but the scarabs, D-lord and C'tan have the movement to really be up at the enemy face really fast.
Assassins My last list is an attempt at using the assassin trait on a CCB at 1000 points. Not only can it really cripple the enemy army, it can also put me at a 1 point advantage due to Slay the Warlord. The infantry gets really scary with -1 AP as enemies close in and the DDA can either keep me covered from long range or be swapped for a C'tan to counter any charges from the enemy.
What do you guys think of my lists and strategies? Any help could be really useful as I don't get to play much in my area, but I do follow the thread in detail and really want to bring the hurt to the tables to show everyone how scary Necrons can be!
Well you have a large pool to grab from so that's a help. Also at 1000pts I believe we are stronger than at 2000 pts.
I think if I was going to that tournament with what you have I would look at this...
Spoiler:
++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Necrons) [52 PL, 987pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Dynastic Heirlooms: Dynastic Heirlooms: 1 Extra Artefact (-1CP)
. . Categories: No Force Org Slot
Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh
. . Categories: No Force Org Slot
+ HQ +
Cryptek [6 PL, 95pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Chronometron, Staff of Light
. . Categories: Character, Cryptek, Faction: (Dynasty), Faction: Necrons, Infantry, HQ . . Warlord: Warlord Trait (Codex 3): Immortal Pride
The stratagy is simple, you have no heavy targets so any heavy weapons your opponent takes will be useless. Waste those laz cannon shots on warriors, see what happens. The deceiver can move the overlord and itself up, hopefully with one squad of immortals. Cryptek can move the warriors up. Finally the 5 left over immortals can advance up or go for a back objective, having the sautekh trait means they can advance and still shoot so your army is fast. The deceiver is deadly with his mortal wound abilities. Nothing will run from moral thanks to the cryptek, and you even get a deny the witch ability. And the scarabs can run interference.
The stratagy is simple, you have no heavy targets so any heavy weapons your opponent takes will be useless. Waste those laz cannon shots on warriors, see what happens. The deceiver can move the overlord and itself up, hopefully with one squad of immortals. Cryptek can move the warriors up. Finally the 5 left over immortals can advance up or go for a back objective, having the sautekh trait means they can advance and still shoot so your army is fast. The deceiver is deadly with his mortal wound abilities. Nothing will run from moral thanks to the cryptek, and you even get a deny the witch ability. And the scarabs can run interference.
Why not have the Trait on the Overlord and have it on the tek? So you can use him offensively? Your list looks solid, thanks a lot!
skoffs wrote:Yeah, luckily there's a bunch of things that are good and worth taking, but not to the degree that you're going to want to spam them.
•Destroyers are great, but you can only give one of them Extermination Protocols a turn so most people will probably only be taking the one unit.
•Wraiths are decent, but I don't see the old Wraith-Wing style lists coming back this round.
•Scarabs are pretty sweet, but you'll probably only want a unit or two.
•Tomb Blades are fantastic, but I have a feeling they're only going to be taken as a single unit, maybe two.
•Doomsday Arks might be one of the few units in the book we'll regularly be seeing three of in a list, but that's probably mostly going to be to fulfill the Spearhead requirements.
•The Tesseract Vault is finally worth taking, but it'll be pretty rare to see multiple of them on a table.
I think it'll more be a case of seeing some regular staples in the majority of lists rather than something everyone will be abusing... until someone can find some way to break something.
The thought of painting 3x DDAs is going to give me nightmares.
Doctoralex wrote:I'm still having a hard time using Tomb Blades.
Obviously Mephrit is their go-to dynasty, but what is their best equipment and playstyle?
Do you hang back at 24" with Tesla, or go in aggressively at 12"? If so, why not take Gauss?
If you're hanging back 24", you aren't getting the benefit of the Mephrit code. It requires you to be within half max range.
Kinda lacking in punch. But yeah, a little hard to fit the heavy hitters in at this point level.
With such a small force you probably won't need two HQ. Not sure which one to keep. (what do you think you'd want to try more, attacking strength or defense?)
For me, I'd probably see if I could make an Outrider detachment instead of a Patrol. Free CP and easy to meet requirements.
Odrankt wrote: Also, kind of off topic, but I was thinking of recording the game and making it into a battle report. [...] Sorry if this isn't allowed Skoffs.
Should be fine. Just remember to stick it under a spoiler, please.
I really want to find out if the Doom Scythes are worth it again this edition. And this list seems like a decent way to find out.
It's an easy 1500 point list I made. The only problem I have with trying out the awesome bombardment strategy is that the enemy only needs to kill 1 DS (which isn't that hard) to keep you from using it.
Using the Air wing detachment does allow you to easily get the 3 DS + use Sautekh + gives you 1 CP.
Has anyone else tried using Doom Scythes? or even DS in teams of 3? I do wonder how effective it would be to those annoying lists that turtle with everyone around a few characters.
Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment +3CP Mephrit
HQ Illuminor Szeras Warlord
Lord Veil of Darkness, Warscythe
The stratagy is simple, you have no heavy targets so any heavy weapons your opponent takes will be useless. Waste those laz cannon shots on warriors, see what happens. The deceiver can move the overlord and itself up, hopefully with one squad of immortals. Cryptek can move the warriors up. Finally the 5 left over immortals can advance up or go for a back objective, having the sautekh trait means they can advance and still shoot so your army is fast. The deceiver is deadly with his mortal wound abilities. Nothing will run from moral thanks to the cryptek, and you even get a deny the witch ability. And the scarabs can run interference.
Why not have the Trait on the Overlord and have it on the tek? So you can use him offensively? Your list looks solid, thanks a lot!
Obviously Mephrit is their go-to dynasty, but what is their best equipment and playstyle?
Do you hang back at 24" with Tesla, or go in aggressively at 12"? If so, why not take Gauss?
I'm interested in this as well - has anyone run the math on Tesla vs. Gauss on Mephrit Tomb Blades?
Why not even Particle Casters? With -1 AP they don't sound too bad, but I'd have to see some math to support that.
The warlord trait goes on the cryptek because he is vital for the list to work, he keeps all 3 squads when near him at 4+ rp rolls and with a 5++ save, so since your already near him it makes sense. If he gets killed you lose a lot so playing him semi defensively makes sense (keep him behind the warriors for example. The overlord on the other hand can be used either way, but since he isn't a key part of the stratagy you can actually use him more aggressively than you many normally do. Plus that staff.... Man, the abysmal staff isn't a joke like some think it is. First in close combat it auto hits. That's 3 automatic hits in melee, at ap-2. He will easily kill a few things each turn it he gets stuck in. Plus at range it deals 1 auto hit that as long as you can roll higher than your targets leadership on 3d6 dice (shouldn't be hard) it deals d3 mortal wounds. Again targeting is key, but if your putting wounds on something that can't absorb the hits well it can be effective. Plus it auto hits, so go ahead and charge me. You get the point. Will it single handedly win a fight? No, but it can easily take those last few wounds off something that needs to die.
As for partial casters, they are cheap that's their only thing. You get more shots with tessla or gauss so it's a if you want to take them and can't afford more then ok but really they should not be running partial casters.
It seems like Tesla is the way to go. They are only worse against high-save enemy units like Terminators. But even then, not by much.
They also vastly perform better at 24" range (makes sense, considering Gauss is Rapid-Fire)
The two main problems with Tesla is that it relies on well... Tesla! Math-hammer is only averages. That one crucial roll in a match could result in way less average 6+ hit rolls. Gauss does not rely on a 6+ for a bonus, thus being more consistent.
And then there is of course the elephant in the room considering how fethed Tesla is as soon as the enemy is -1 to hit.
* Unfavorable conditions imply that unit moved, outside of rapid fire range, etc.
** Tomb Blades used layout of 3+ and nebuloscope, but nebuloscope was not considered as -1 AP. As such, their real performance will be better due to either lower cost, or better to wound chance for targets in cover.
*** Favorable conditions imply stationary unit, within rapid fire range, etc. Mephrit dynasty bonus was applied in all cases except Doomsday Ark and Tesseract Ark's Particle Hurricane attack. Buffs such as MWBD were not considered.
Disclamer: I am a complete Warhammer noob game-wise, just starting out Necron army (hence the math). As such, I would like to ask for oppinions on the following list:
Spoiler:
++ Mephrit Batallion Detachment ++
Catacomb Command Barge (Tesla Cannon, Voltaic Staff, Warlord — Merciless Tyrant)
Lord (Staff of Light, Ressurection Orb, Veil of Darkness)
taetrius67 wrote: You not realy get more hits because for the same points you will have more tombe blades so more hits aswell.
Agreed, good point. at the same point value it doesn't matter much, 9 partical blades will put out the same number of shots as 7 tessela blades at the same equivalent point value. And if mathhammer shows tessela is better than gauss most times maybe they are just traps. Unless you only have 7 models, I mean the number of models you own actually can come into play here.
So I am going to restart necrons once I have finished painting my TS. After scrolling through here a while I have been considering what things to buy. I want to keep things on a loose budget of about £150 optimistically, but around £250 real talk.
I started necrons as a kiddo I already own around 25 salvageable warriors, 3 scarab bases, a cryptek, a doom scythe and possibly a lord.
I already had in mind half of forgebane + new start collecting, but what else?
Thanks for the help!
The stratagy is simple, you have no heavy targets so any heavy weapons your opponent takes will be useless. Waste those laz cannon shots on warriors, see what happens. The deceiver can move the overlord and itself up, hopefully with one squad of immortals. Cryptek can move the warriors up. Finally the 5 left over immortals can advance up or go for a back objective, having the sautekh trait means they can advance and still shoot so your army is fast. The deceiver is deadly with his mortal wound abilities. Nothing will run from moral thanks to the cryptek, and you even get a deny the witch ability. And the scarabs can run interference.
Why not have the Trait on the Overlord and have it on the tek? So you can use him offensively? Your list looks solid, thanks a lot!
Obviously Mephrit is their go-to dynasty, but what is their best equipment and playstyle?
Do you hang back at 24" with Tesla, or go in aggressively at 12"? If so, why not take Gauss?
I'm interested in this as well - has anyone run the math on Tesla vs. Gauss on Mephrit Tomb Blades?
Why not even Particle Casters? With -1 AP they don't sound too bad, but I'd have to see some math to support that.
The warlord trait goes on the cryptek because he is vital for the list to work, he keeps all 3 squads when near him at 4+ rp rolls and with a 5++ save, so since your already near him it makes sense. If he gets killed you lose a lot so playing him semi defensively makes sense (keep him behind the warriors for example. The overlord on the other hand can be used either way, but since he isn't a key part of the stratagy you can actually use him more aggressively than you many normally do. Plus that staff.... Man, the abysmal staff isn't a joke like some think it is. First in close combat it auto hits. That's 3 automatic hits in melee, at ap-2. He will easily kill a few things each turn it he gets stuck in. Plus at range it deals 1 auto hit that as long as you can roll higher than your targets leadership on 3d6 dice (shouldn't be hard) it deals d3 mortal wounds. Again targeting is key, but if your putting wounds on something that can't absorb the hits well it can be effective. Plus it auto hits, so go ahead and charge me. You get the point. Will it single handedly win a fight? No, but it can easily take those last few wounds off something that needs to die.
As for partial casters, they are cheap that's their only thing. You get more shots with tessla or gauss so it's a if you want to take them and can't afford more then ok but really they should not be running partial casters.
Huh that's something i never realised about the staff, though as it only does 1 damage I can see it being good for clearing expensive models with low wound counts as our characters don't have enough attacks to use it to clear chaff and d3 MW isnt huge
Yeah, I would use it to fight units like lieutenants, apothecarys, lower end secondary charecters. And the point isn't as much to use it to kill but to finish stuff off. You bring a unit down to that last model but you don't want to spend a lot of firepower killing it, but that last guy has to die.
But look at it like this. You have a tau commander ds in near you with their damned drones. Use him to pop the drones easily then you can target the commander with a dda or something big and scarry and know your not throwing shots at it for the drones to just take.
Honestly it would probably work better on a destroyer lord, but with the points you suggested that's where I went.
I have have been stressing a bit since in australian ITC tournaments alaitoc is still top dog and despite not being their best unit, hemlocks are VERY scary to tomb blades, it doesn't care about minuses to hits, it does 2 damage and has insane ap so the couple of TBs with shadowlooms that you should be taking in every squad wont last. On top of this they are -2 to hit until they attack and I can get within 12". While tesla is amazing against hordes and is 25% better for point for point on TBs compared to particle beamers, when there is any minus to hit involved particle beamers become 20% more efficient than tesla against T3.
Since the only buff to hit t+TBs get is 2cp and only for sautekh I am currently leaning towards running particle beamers on two of my squads of 9 (also a note artyom if you want to greatly increase the likely hood of your TBs surviving max squads is the way to go since reanimation actually works on TBs compared to warriors etc.).
Since tesla is just too good to pass when not going against lists such as these (which is more often than not) I am still including a squad of tesla blades, so currently my set up for TBs is:
Spoiler:
mephrit dynasty
cloaktek (might take lightning field or voltaic staff for 1cp, I am still deciding)
9 Tomb blades (particle beamer)
all with shields, 2 with shadowlooms
9 Tomb blades (particle beamer)
all with shields, 2 with shadowlooms
8 Tomb blades (tesla)
all with shields, 2 with shadowlooms
I have have been stressing a bit since in australian ITC tournaments alaitoc is still top dog and despite not being their best unit, hemlocks are VERY scary to tomb blades, it doesn't care about minuses to hits, it does 2 damage and has insane ap so the couple of TBs with shadowlooms that you should be taking in every squad wont last. On top of this they are -2 to hit until they attack and I can get within 12". While tesla is amazing against hordes and is 25% better for point for point on TBs compared to particle beamers, when there is any minus to hit involved particle beamers become 20% more efficient than tesla against T3.
Since the only buff to hit t+TBs get is 2cp and only for sautekh I am currently leaning towards running particle beamers on two of my squads of 9 (also a note artyom if you want to greatly increase the likely hood of your TBs surviving max squads is the way to go since reanimation actually works on TBs compared to warriors etc.).
Since tesla is just too good to pass when not going against lists such as these (which is more often than not) I am still including a squad of tesla blades, so currently my set up for TBs is:
Spoiler:
mephrit dynasty
cloaktek (might take lightning field or voltaic staff for 1cp, I am still deciding)
9 Tomb blades (particle beamer)
all with shields, 2 with shadowlooms
9 Tomb blades (particle beamer)
all with shields, 2 with shadowlooms
8 Tomb blades (tesla)
all with shields, 2 with shadowlooms
Ridge, I was thinking about squads of 9 but it looks like morale might be an issue. So running squads of 6 imho is the best choice - we still can reanimate but we're not affected by morale.
With a lot of -1 to hit in ITC (nurgle, eldar, dark eldar, ravenguard etc) running Tesla is very very scary. You're paying a lot of extra points with a big chance to get bad matchup.
For practice beamers you get +1 STR so wounding on 2s eldars, guard, daemons etc, it costs less points and not affected by -1 to hit in a such a way as tesla does.
Kinda lacking in punch. But yeah, a little hard to fit the heavy hitters in at this point level.
With such a small force you probably won't need two HQ. Not sure which one to keep. (what do you think you'd want to try more, attacking strength or defense?)
For me, I'd probably see if I could make an Outrider detachment instead of a Patrol. Free CP and easy to meet requirements.
Odrankt wrote: Also, kind of off topic, but I was thinking of recording the game and making it into a battle report. [...] Sorry if this isn't allowed Skoffs.
Should be fine. Just remember to stick it under a spoiler, please.
I just finished up the game and will immediately swap the Overlord and Cryptek for a CCB. Cryptek was good in that it brought 2 models back to both Immortals and Warriors but it got destroyed in CC. The Overlord did pretty well but it just lack "umph". I think a CCB will preform better cause it isT6,8W, 12" movement and 1 HQ.
Also, in this league everything we use has to be used through out . So, I would rather have a CCB now rather than an O Lord . Having a Patrol also let's me beff up into a Battalion and everyone is restricted to HQ and Troops only for the 1st 500pts. So no Outrider I am afraid.
I also found the Sautekh Warlord trait to only be situational at best. I only had 3 CPs so I would have probably gotten and extra 1 CP at most but I got none all game. I think the Sautekh Warlord trait is better for games where we have 7+ CPs before counting the 5+ from using CPs or when using Imotekh.
My list is now;
Spoiler:
-CCB, Heavy Gauss Cannon, Warscythe, relic: Lighting Field
-16 Warriors
-8 Tesla Immortals
Comes to 498pts.
Thanks for letting me post links. I'll make sure to Spoiler them each time.
Just so everyone knows. I played Sisters tonight and won 10-8. Was so closed to being tabled though. Finished the game with 2 warriors left
On morale, the worst you can get with 9 with no negatives to morale is having to role a 1 or 2 with 8 casualties, which isn't great but doesn't particularly mean you are losing out on many. From experience, squads die fast, squads of 6 will usually result in you not getting much back from reanimation as they will most likely kill a squad and try and fire at another part of my army to avoid wasted fire.
Running squads of 6 also allows them more kills which can potentially edge them in front in kills per round resulting in them getting more points. Squads of 6 are certainly more versatile but I think you're underestimating Leadership 10 a tad.
On Tesla I also forgot to mention that against assault armies that do not have a -1 within 12" tesla is amazing, since every hit you get is 3, meaning that you are getting 4 times as many hits when defending (3 times as many point for point).
Ridge wrote: On morale, the worst you can get with 9 with no negatives to morale is having to role a 1 or 2 with 8 casualties, which isn't great but doesn't particularly mean you are losing out on many. From experience, squads die fast, squads of 6 will usually result in you not getting much back from reanimation as they will most likely kill a squad and try and fire at another part of my army to avoid wasted fire.
Running squads of 6 also allows them more kills which can potentially edge them in front in kills per round resulting in them getting more points. Squads of 6 are certainly more versatile but I think you underestimate Leadership 10.
Squad of 9:
LD 10. They kill 7 (10-7=3) on 4 1 flee, 5+ - 2 .
I think reanimation is overestimated. It's a nice bonus but building army around it does not worth it.
I'm sorry to sound like a idiot but I don't understand the dynastic thing at all. I didn't paint my army to reflect the different dynasties so does that mean I don't get any of the special rules? Ugh so frustrated!
I don't remember this in the seventh edition, or maybe I just didn't pay attention.
Vette wrote: I'm sorry to sound like a idiot but I don't understand the dynastic thing at all. I didn't paint my army to reflect the different dynasties so does that mean I don't get any of the special rules? Ugh so frustrated!
I don't remember this in the seventh edition, or maybe I just didn't pay attention.
You can take whatever dynastic rules you want, following the same restrictions that, say, Space Marines have. Paint scheme doesn't matter.
Vette wrote: I'm sorry to sound like a idiot but I don't understand the dynastic thing at all. I didn't paint my army to reflect the different dynasties so does that mean I don't get any of the special rules? Ugh so frustrated!
I don't remember this in the seventh edition, or maybe I just didn't pay attention.
it doesn't really matter what colour they are just paint them how you like, if you need to distinguish them, what I do is paint different colour shevrons/stripes across a plate on the model
Okay, thank you! So I just declare it at the beginning. I mainly played with my brother who was way better at it but he moved so now I'm floundering. And my husband is no help he hates the whole thing
necron99 wrote: My problem with the DDA is that in my meta we use the NOVA terrain setup so we have those two annoying LOS blockers in the middle of the table. Trying to come up with decent lanes of fire can be difficult. Too many of my peeps run something that just go through the those guys and pop out right in front of my DDA/LR/etc so I'm a little leery about long range shooters that don't like to move and/or need LOS...hence my love of manticores, bassilisks and mortars...
If I take a DDA in last edition, I take the Ctan Deceiver. I think the same goes this edition.
sieGermans wrote: So, here’s a thing: Nihilak Dynasty Wraiths can run up midfield to an objective and hold it with a 2++ (with CP).
That seems... way good?
This seems very specific to the mission set that you are playing in, as for this to matter you need a few things to align:
1. your opponent doesn't have a method of spamming mortal wounds
2. you can deny all area around the objective so an opponent that has obsec units cant sneak in slightly (requiring you to spend more on this unit and also get on the objective turn 1)
3. There have to be 3 or 4 objectives (more and your opponent can just ignore the wraiths, less and you have really gone wrong if you don't have any objectives)
4. The points for the objectives have to matter a great deal compared to kill points, since you are basically taking a bunch of your points and cp (which necrons can be rather short of) and dumping on a very durab;e paper weight rather than running them as novokh wraiths or just a more killy unit that complements your army)
I wouldn't take this approach personally, if this is what you are trying to achieve I would probably deceiver in a vault (or not depending on objective placement) and spend the cp on that, since it doesn't need to be in combat to be deadly, giving you a 3++ 28W model that can pose a very real threat to the enemy if not dealt with. I was thinking of this strategy but since all tournaments here are ITC the vault just gives up way too many points and doesn't synergise well with the rest of my list.
Ridge wrote: On morale, the worst you can get with 9 with no negatives to morale is having to role a 1 or 2 with 8 casualties, which isn't great but doesn't particularly mean you are losing out on many. From experience, squads die fast, squads of 6 will usually result in you not getting much back from reanimation as they will most likely kill a squad and try and fire at another part of my army to avoid wasted fire.
Running squads of 6 also allows them more kills which can potentially edge them in front in kills per round resulting in them getting more points. Squads of 6 are certainly more versatile but I think you underestimate Leadership 10.
Squad of 9:
LD 10. They kill 7 (10-7=3) on 4 1 flee, 5+ - 2 .
I think reanimation is overestimated. It's a nice bonus but building army around it does not worth it.
Even with the fleeing, the squad of 9 fares better in that situation.
Squad of 6:
Squad is wiped and then 1 more from another unit is killed, then a 1/3rd chance to bring back one from RP.
Squad of 6 ends up with 6.666 net dead on average. (6.5 dead on average with Cryptek)
Squad of 9:
1/2 chance to lose 7 and regain 2.333 on average for net 4.666 dead. 1/6th chance to lose 8 and regain 2.666 for net 5.333 dead. 1/3rd chance to lose entire squad to morale for net 9 dead.
Squad of 9 ends up with 6.222 net dead on average. (5.416 dead on average with Cryptek)
sieGermans wrote: So, here’s a thing: Nihilak Dynasty Wraiths can run up midfield to an objective and hold it with a 2++ (with CP).
That seems... way good?
As of right now though, I think that Wraiths really should only be taken as Novokh. While using the Nihilakh stratagem with them would be powerful, The code does nothing else for them. Novokh really helps wraiths become more deadly in close combat, and with the premium you pay, you really want that.
Sasori wrote: As of right now though, I think that Wraiths really should only be taken as Novokh.
Nephrekh ain't bad (super fast Wraiths).
Mephrit with P.Casters, too (S6 AP-1 pistols)
And Sautekh (with Beamers).
Basically any Dynasty except Nihilakh.
I've seen some crazy people suggesting you take them for the Nihilakh +1 to saves strat. That nets you a 2++ on the objective and an extra attack on each of them.
We streamed a game of Custodes Vs necrona. Only lasted 3 turns as it was quite brutal and found the Cron list to be quite good. Head over to www.twitch.tv/glasshammergaming to watch it. I give some tactical insight during the game.
There any merit to taking either one of the named non dynasty HQ's to lead an outrider/vanguard so you don't 'waste' an HQ slot? IE a Novokh Overlord/Lord/Cryptek does almost nothing for a mostly Sautekh detachment when all you wanted were some Novokh wraiths but Szeras can at least give some buffs out to your main force.
Sasori wrote: As of right now though, I think that Wraiths really should only be taken as Novokh.
Nephrekh ain't bad (super fast Wraiths).
Mephrit with P.Casters, too (S6 AP-1 pistols)
And Sautekh (with Beamers).
Basically any Dynasty except Nihilakh.
I've seen some crazy people suggesting you take them for the Nihilakh +1 to saves strat. That nets you a 2++ on the objective and an extra attack on each of them.
Those people are insane, and you shouldn’t pay attention to them.
In seriousness, not all combos we find will be useful in 100% of lists and metas, but sometimes you may find that you need a 150pt unit that’s hard as nails for sprinting to an objective and scaring folks off from coming near it. We now know a possible option.
RogueApiary wrote: There any merit to taking either one of the named non dynasty HQ's to lead an outrider/vanguard so you don't 'waste' an HQ slot? IE a Novokh Overlord/Lord/Cryptek does almost nothing for a mostly Sautekh detachment when all you wanted were some Novokh wraiths but Szeras can at least give some buffs out to your main force.
Yeah, Szeras is great in that regard.
Good long distance weapon to use from the back and an ability that works on any troops, regardless of Dynasty.
It's too bad Anrakyr is not as useful...
Anrakyr was always one of my favorite characters, and I would love it to read more books about him, and his quest, but appart from an anti-assault role, or some Deceiver shananigens I really don't see a good list with him.
I might try to make a Nihilakh or Novokh list with him as an deterrend vs assault armies. And if I don't have to run up the field but mainly do counter charges, teaming him up with some Praetorians works as well. Might even throw in Szeras.
But that is a very niche list that would make use of him. I really think GW forgot somehow with Anrakyr that 5" really is very slow if you can only walk from point to point.
Nagerash wrote: I really want to find out if the Doom Scythes are worth it again this edition. And this list seems like a decent way to find out.
It's an easy 1500 point list I made. The only problem I have with trying out the awesome bombardment strategy is that the enemy only needs to kill 1 DS (which isn't that hard) to keep you from using it.
Using the Air wing detachment does allow you to easily get the 3 DS + use Sautekh + gives you 1 CP.
Has anyone else tried using Doom Scythes? or even DS in teams of 3? I do wonder how effective it would be to those annoying lists that turtle with everyone around a few characters.
Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment +3CP Mephrit
HQ Illuminor Szeras Warlord
Lord Veil of Darkness, Warscythe
I used them in a game recently and they performed very well. I zoomed them up close turn 1 and popped the stratagem that causes mortal wounds and it was devastating. I killed 18 guardsman and put 7 wounds on a hellhound. Then they could still fire the Tesla. And at half range mephrit the -1 kicked in.
Okay guys I've got my first draft list going. Sautekh silver tide for the most part. I am going to play a 2k point tourney this weekend, using ITC rules but CA missions. There's lots of FW, and at least two Guilliman + 2x Fire Raptor lists in the mix. One is a Ultra/Custodes mix, the other is a FW spam with the fire raptors, a sicaran, a deredeo, and some infantry. Outside of that, a pure Custodes, some cultist spam, ynnari reaper spam, and some other "fluffy" armies.
My strategy will be castle up first turn in a corner and try to down any flyers/vehicles with the pylon and heavy D, and then push out with the infantry once the opponent's firepower is depleted, using the scarabs to either screen or hold objectives. The Nightbringer will move with the destroyers for protection and dish out mortal wounds and try to kill infantry with GoD, and then charge any opportune targets that are presented. Cryptek can Veil the warriors or some immortals where needed for last minute objective grabs or to clean up any back line units that become exposed.
Azuza001 wrote:
Plus that staff.... Man, the abysmal staff isn't a joke like some think it is. First in close combat it auto hits. That's 3 automatic hits in melee, at ap-2. He will easily kill a few things each turn it he gets stuck in. Plus at range it deals 1 auto hit that as long as you can roll higher than your targets leadership on 3d6 dice (shouldn't be hard) it deals d3 mortal wounds.
As for partial casters, they are cheap that's their only thing. You get more shots with tessla or gauss so it's a if you want to take them and can't afford more then ok but really they should not be running partial casters.
I may have jumped the gun regarding the staff as my impression from the text was that it was auto hit for shooting.
After reading it a couple more times I agree to what you say, no need to roll for hits in CC (RAW). However I believe that it is not RAI.
If the weapon is auto hit for CC too, then it would be "B", especially on a Cryptek or Lord as they are WS/BS3+.
Now, regarding the Particle Casters I dont agree. TB ending movement inside 12" with anything that can do CC is a terrible idea. As for the Particle Casters, they are less "cool" but for minimal cost & maximum utility the Particle beam TB isn't bad. 9 TB with PB will have 27 shots (+1S), 18 Wounds and are cheaper than 7 Tesla with 28 shots and 14 wounds. The point per wound here is a huge selling point for me.
For 32 pts, you get a 9 TB with PB (3+/5++) or a 9 TB with Tesla (4+). Throw in a CloakCryptec bubbled in a 9 model Particle TB unit and it is very tough and difficult to dislodge. Just stay at 20-24". Tesla is better if you know you are fighting an army without -1 to hit.
Particle TD= 24 points. 3x S6 attack, -1 to hit and 4+
2 Warriors = 24 points. 2-4x S4 AP1, 4+
with 20 Warriors and a Cryptek they can have 5++.. That is 95 pts /20 = 4.75 points per Warrior. The TB gets the same for 5 points. But Warriors cant get 3+, don't have the mobility, T5 and the -1 to hit.
TBH Warriors and TB are ranged units that die fast in CC, TB can use speed Warriors cannot.
The only problem for bikes is that its maybe harder for them to get cover saves.
ArtyomTrityak wrote:
Ridge wrote: On morale, the worst you can get with 9 with no negatives to morale is having to role a 1 or 2 with 8 casualties, which isn't great but doesn't particularly mean you are losing out on many. From experience, squads die fast, squads of 6 will usually result in you not getting much back from reanimation as they will most likely kill a squad and try and fire at another part of my army to avoid wasted fire.
Running squads of 6 also allows them more kills which can potentially edge them in front in kills per round resulting in them getting more points. Squads of 6 are certainly more versatile but I think you underestimate Leadership 10.
Squad of 9:
LD 10. They kill 7 (10-7=3) on 4 1 flee, 5+ - 2 .
I think reanimation is overestimated. It's a nice bonus but building army around it does not worth it.
I think that if the enemy uses a turn to focus fire down a TB unit to having 1-3 models left then using 2 CP to auto-pass morale and then get a chance to reanimate (preferably with Cryptek +1) and get ~3 units back is well worth it. Even if it is a Particle TB (especially one with 3+/4++). "Enhanced Reanimation Protocols" are just so expensive but you should get 1 model (24-37 points) for the 2CP, not really worth it but the psychological effect is demoralizing for the enemy if you get a lot of 1s and get to re-roll :p
But is the CloakCryptek wort the 85 points? How many RP will he need to be worthwile?
Then in your turn you should be able to reduce his overall firepower, maneuver (14"+1-6" should do it) the TB to make sure they don't get killed next turn and get another RP. If he goes for the TB again its good for you, something else isn't dying. Budget 18W -1 to hit and 3+/5++ is really a nice profile.
I put a naked list and you equip them as you wish.
Spoiler:
DYNASTY: SAUTECH
-HQ-
CCB -158
Lord (to reroll 1s to wound, is a must) -83
Cryptek with cloak -85
-Troops-
6X5 immortals -510
-Fast-
3X3 scarabs -117
-Elite-
2X5 Deathmark -190
C'Tan Deceiver -225
-Heavy-
3XDDA -579
Total: 1947pts
Now you can probably customise it a little, switch the arks for cheaper heavy destroyers and try to pack destroyers and wraiths in, but the minimum requirement are already expensive. Now let,s discuss the key points:
1) 5 man squads, WTF? With 6 immortals and 2 deathmarks squads that's still 40 boots on the ground. I realise the common line of though about RP, but, my guess is that with 5-man squads the ennemy will tend to overshot a few units, or try to kill to many at once, and you WILL have some 1-2 immortals left over here and there. Since i've been through too many games where my 10 immortals squads get whiped out anyways, i figure you might as well try it.
2) Mortal wound. It depends how you equip your warlord, but this list still has the C'Tan and scarabs that are ready to blow up with the stratagem, and 12CP to boot! And you have the deathmarks, with the Sautekh stratagem i'm gonna discuss below they have an improved chance of getting MWs. That should be enough. Since my list doesn't really make use of the grand illusion, i might switch for the nightbringer. Anyways i figured you must include at least 1 C'Tan now. Like, always.
3) Doomsday arks. My choice of those instead of heavy destroyers is more than just the big cannon. They can also deal out up to 60 rapid fire S4 AP-1 shots to support your immortal against nasty infantry swarms, and are though nuts to crack. The cryptek is there to repair D3 wounds, and you got enough stratagems to boost quantum shields or have a broken barge fire fully.
4) Dynasty. This list screams Mephrit, but i'm gonna go Sautekh instead. Why? First, assault doomsday cannon and no penalty on heavy fire for DDA and CCB. I figure i'd spend the first turn or 2 to kill of any target that can damage my arks, then start move forward shooting the low power gun, which is strong enough for anything but the biggest monsters/vehicules. Second, the best stratagem out there for Sautekh: 2CP +1 to hit for all sautekh that shoot at the same target (that was wounded). You wound it with your CCB and then proceed. It makes for KILLER Tesla (especially in this list where you can't MWBD 6 units) and if i read correctly will even have DDA that hit on 2+.
So that's the idea anyway. 12CP to use... miam miam.
Azuza001 wrote:
Plus that staff.... Man, the abysmal staff isn't a joke like some think it is. First in close combat it auto hits. That's 3 automatic hits in melee, at ap-2. He will easily kill a few things each turn it he gets stuck in. Plus at range it deals 1 auto hit that as long as you can roll higher than your targets leadership on 3d6 dice (shouldn't be hard) it deals d3 mortal wounds.
As for partial casters, they are cheap that's their only thing. You get more shots with tessla or gauss so it's a if you want to take them and can't afford more then ok but really they should not be running partial casters.
I may have jumped the gun regarding the staff as my impression from the text was that it was auto hit for shooting.
After reading it a couple more times I agree to what you say, no need to roll for hits in CC (RAW). However I believe that it is not RAI.
If the weapon is auto hit for CC too, then it would be "B", especially on a Cryptek or Lord as they are WS/BS3+.
Now, regarding the Particle Casters I dont agree. TB ending movement inside 12" with anything that can do CC is a terrible idea. As for the Particle Casters, they are less "cool" but for minimal cost & maximum utility the Particle beam TB isn't bad. 9 TB with PB will have 27 shots (+1S), 18 Wounds and are cheaper than 7 Tesla with 28 shots and 14 wounds. The point per wound here is a huge selling point for me.
For 32 pts, you get a 9 TB with PB (3+/5++) or a 9 TB with Tesla (4+). Throw in a CloakCryptec bubbled in a 9 model Particle TB unit and it is very tough and difficult to dislodge. Just stay at 20-24". Tesla is better if you know you are fighting an army without -1 to hit.
Particle TD= 24 points. 3x S6 attack, -1 to hit and 4+
2 Warriors = 24 points. 2-4x S4 AP1, 4+
with 20 Warriors and a Cryptek they can have 5++.. That is 95 pts /20 = 4.75 points per Warrior. The TB gets the same for 5 points. But Warriors cant get 3+, don't have the mobility, T5 and the -1 to hit.
TBH Warriors and TB are ranged units that die fast in CC, TB can use speed Warriors cannot.
The only problem for bikes is that its maybe harder for them to get cover saves.
ArtyomTrityak wrote:
Ridge wrote: On morale, the worst you can get with 9 with no negatives to morale is having to role a 1 or 2 with 8 casualties, which isn't great but doesn't particularly mean you are losing out on many. From experience, squads die fast, squads of 6 will usually result in you not getting much back from reanimation as they will most likely kill a squad and try and fire at another part of my army to avoid wasted fire.
Running squads of 6 also allows them more kills which can potentially edge them in front in kills per round resulting in them getting more points. Squads of 6 are certainly more versatile but I think you underestimate Leadership 10.
Squad of 9:
LD 10. They kill 7 (10-7=3) on 4 1 flee, 5+ - 2 .
I think reanimation is overestimated. It's a nice bonus but building army around it does not worth it.
I think that if the enemy uses a turn to focus fire down a TB unit to having 1-3 models left then using 2 CP to auto-pass morale and then get a chance to reanimate (preferably with Cryptek +1) and get ~3 units back is well worth it. Even if it is a Particle TB (especially one with 3+/4++). "Enhanced Reanimation Protocols" are just so expensive but you should get 1 model (24-37 points) for the 2CP, not really worth it but the psychological effect is demoralizing for the enemy if you get a lot of 1s and get to re-roll :p
But is the CloakCryptek wort the 85 points? How many RP will he need to be worthwile?
Then in your turn you should be able to reduce his overall firepower, maneuver (14"+1-6" should do it) the TB to make sure they don't get killed next turn and get another RP. If he goes for the TB again its good for you, something else isn't dying. Budget 18W -1 to hit and 3+/5++ is really a nice profile.
Yeah, a few more Posts down from when I wrote that I agreed that I jumped the gun on partical caster tomb blades. If you have 9 and want the firepower of 7 double tessla than by all means go for it, math says it's the same but with more wounds. However I also point out not everyone has 9, and if you want the firepower of 9 but can only afford 6 then tessela will get you close.
Some guys are complaining about RP.
RP isn't a IWIN but its not bad coupled with T4+ in the army and 4+ or better saves with possible 5++ saves as well it has potential.
Cryptek worth it?
TB unit will need to roll "4" 2-3 times to cover the cost of the CloakCryptek's 85 points. So not necessarily?
Warriors will need to roll "4" 6-7 times but get 5++ too, probably, but morale/CP is a problem.
If choosing between Cryptek and Ghost Ark for RP, then the GA is better (25%) than Cryptek (17%), both together is best.
Is there any reason not to initially deploy Destroyers with Crypteks for a 18W 3+/5++ profile? Are they getting popped first turn Alpha with the 5++?
Lychguard
I don't think that Lychguard are good in this edition. I love the model though.
I have been trying to think of a good use for them, what do you guys think about this?
Spoiler:
This should be Novokh or Nephrekh Dynasty, Novokh has a better warlord trait, Nephrek gives speed to OL/Lord/Cryptek and Lychguard to keep up with C'tan.
Not neccesary, but I would suggest: Crimson Haze or Immortal Pride & Blood Scythe, Orb of Eternity Veil or even Nightmare Shroud.
Vanguard (+1CP) 769 pts
Lord w/Warscythe & Orb (119) - re-roll 1s to wound and only one Lychguard needs to be resurected to pay Orb.
C'tan Deceiver (225)
10 Lychguard Sword&Board (340)
5 Flayed ones (170) or more Lychguard
Or cheaper even cheaper
Vanguard (+1CP) 715 pts
Cryptek w/Chronometron (95) +1RP and 5++
C'tan (225)
10 Lychguard w/Warscythe (300) More Damadge & 5++ from Cryptek
5 Deathmarks (95)
Anrakyr (167) could be nice too, he doesn't buff the C'tan though and no ORB.
The C'tan should take 1# Lychguard 2# Lord/Cryptek 3# If lucky a free slot for somthing like 20 Warriors or 10 Immortals for disposable fire.
Lychguard is mostly here as a Bodyguard to bubble-wrap and take wounds for the C'tan. Honestly I see this as maybe the best roles I can imagine, keep the c'tan alive to spam powers on the enemy.
Or going all in with a C'tan Bomb? 1994 pts & 4 CP
Spoiler:
Vanguard -Novokh- [Re-roll hit rolls; CC] (+1CP-1CP=0CP) 1096 pts
CCB w/Tesla, Warscythe, Orb & Lightning Field (197) WoC almost wasted here.
CloakCryptek w/Veil (85) repair CCB and +1 to RP for Lychguard
Ctan Deceiver (225)
Ctan Nightbringer (210)
10 Lychguard Sword&Board (340)
3 Scarabs (39)
Could take a DLord w/Warscythe and Nanoscarabs +5 Scarabs instead but then no ORB for the Lychguard!
Better then to have a Lord (re-roll 1s to wound) w/ SoL, ORB & Immortal Pride +6 Scarabs.
Deceiver 1# Nightbringer, 2# CCB 3# TB?
Cryptek veils himself and the Lychguard.
If CCB cant be moved by Deceiver they should fly to the Deceiver. Bubble-wrapped with TB with (3+/5++) and a CloakCryptek he should be rather safe.
Spearhead -Nihilakh- [Reroll 1s to hit; ranged] (+1CP) 896
CloakCryptek (85) for TB or DDA 9 TB w/Tesla, Shield&Shadow. (360)
DDA (193)
DDA (193)
Spyder (65) For DDA with no Gunz.
The stratagy is simple, you have no heavy targets so any heavy weapons your opponent takes will be useless. Waste those laz cannon shots on warriors, see what happens. The deceiver can move the overlord and itself up, hopefully with one squad of immortals. Cryptek can move the warriors up. Finally the 5 left over immortals can advance up or go for a back objective, having the sautekh trait means they can advance and still shoot so your army is fast. The deceiver is deadly with his mortal wound abilities. Nothing will run from moral thanks to the cryptek, and you even get a deny the witch ability. And the scarabs can run interference.
I've iterated a bit on your suggestion and decided to maximize my firepower by adding in Szeras for some minimal anti-tank as well as changing to Mephrit for -1 AP. I found that -3 AP Gauss Blasters are brutal to almost anything, and switching the Overlord for a Lord allows me to be a bigger threat to high-wound units and vehicles. I do lose some chaff as I only have 3 scarabs, but if played correctly and with Szeras buff I may be able to hold off in melee in case I get tangled in. I'd use the Warriors as chaff in this manner, using the Gauss Immortals as my firebase and the Deceiver to counter-charge.
Spoiler:
Mephrit Battalion
Szeras (trait: Immortal Pride, eldritch lance)
Lord (Veil of Darkness, Staff of Light)
Deceiver
20x Warriors
10x Immortas (Gauss)
5x Immortals (Tesla)
3x Scarabs
It's all aimed at alpha striking turn 1 by moving up Zseras and warriors with the Deceiver and veiling in the Lord and the Gauss Immortals. Tesla Immortals can advance to also contribute.
The key is preparing the deploy for the chance of losing initiative. If I'm counting I'll go second I'll set-up in a divided flank: I set up my large blob of Warriors on one flank, followed by the Veil Lord. Depending on who started, that could mean either 2 or 3 of my opponent's units are down already. If he bites the bait and sets up to counter me I'll just drop deceiver in that same flank to keep the ruse and then deploy everything else on the other corner, redeploying deceiver and the two units away before he starts (I'd always deploy the lord hidden so I can just bring 1 unit and leave him behind if needed). That game then is a slow march up midfield until I'm in killing range, not ideal, but doable on a 4x4,
It's not like at 1k people can easily wipe my 20 warrior blob, and if they move in CC they have to contend with all the mortal wounds the deceiver is generating from Cosmic Fire and Sky of falling stars.
What do you guys think? I could also just drop the 3 scarab bases for 2 extra immortals on the 5 man unit, I'm afraid these may give out First Blood too easily.
I think Gauss is the way to go in tourneys there is just too much -1 top hit out there.
As far as building a comp tourney list things to consider are the list you are going to come up against and how to handle them.
Ask how to handle the following:
Guilliman Gunline/Raptors
Chaos Soup/Monty
Tyranid Flyrants and Genestealers Kraken (fast) and Kronos
Eldar- Dark Reapers/Shinning Spears Altioc/Ynarri cheese
Mortal Wound Spam list
Necrons need to craft a list to play against all of these. Split Chapter Tactics (Dynastys) seems common in a lost of list. This might be something to consider.
Assume its ITC missions with points for Objectives and secondaries. Things to keep in mind would be limiting warrior squads to x19 rather than 20 to deny secondary points etc... You need to keep these things in mind.
We also need to keep in mind how do the Necron Alpha Strike and which stratagems to burn turn 1 to maximize that.
Cryptecs, C'tan, Warriors, Scarabs, Doomsday arks, destroyers, tomb blades seem to be the best units IMO. I would stay away from any Tesla (yes i know its good on paper, but you will run into -1 to hit in any major tourney.)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
With a lot of -1 to hit in ITC (nurgle, eldar, dark eldar, ravenguard etc) running Tesla is very very scary. You're paying a lot of extra points with a big chance to get bad matchup.
For practice beamers you get +1 STR so wounding on 2s eldars, guard, daemons etc, it costs less points and not affected by -1 to hit in a such a way as tesla does.
Don't forget Nids (malanthropes, Venomthropes Kraken WL trait). Nids did quiet well at adepticon.
Nagerash wrote: Anrakyr was always one of my favorite characters, and I would love it to read more books about him, and his quest, but appart from an anti-assault role, or some Deceiver shananigens I really don't see a good list with him.
I might try to make a Nihilakh or Novokh list with him as an deterrend vs assault armies. And if I don't have to run up the field but mainly do counter charges, teaming him up with some Praetorians works as well. Might even throw in Szeras.
But that is a very niche list that would make use of him. I really think GW forgot somehow with Anrakyr that 5" really is very slow if you can only walk from point to point.
He's one of my favorite HQ models. I could see Anrakyr being situationally useful if you were going up against a vehicle-heavy list due to his mind control ability (MC the enemy's titan in an Apoc game) and Tachyon Arrow, but I can't think of any way to build a strategy around him.
Anrankyr can actually do wonders for a silver tide list. That extra attack really does matter and when combined with the novokh dynasty and someone with the immortal pride warlord trait becomes scary blocks of metal that will not fold in CC and can actually win combats.
Easiest answer to a fire raptor is a pylon. You'll kill it in a turn. Then, its slightly less effective vs ground targets. Not sure why that is particularly hard to handle?
Your opponent also can't stop it from happening since the pylon deep strikes in...
got my first tournament with the codex this weekend, currently still debating a pylon list or two doomsday's and more destroyers list.
Though my main worry is hoard spam. know at least one person is bringing 100's of orc boys, and not sure if i have the fire power to stop it before i get slaughtered
anyone got any suggestions?
Spoiler:
Necron Army list
Command Points: 7
Battalion Detachment
Keyword: Sautekh
HQ: Catacomb Command Barge (138) Staff of Light (10) Gauss cannon (20)
= 169pts (warlord : 1 reroll per game and cp back on 5+)
HQ: Cryptek(70) Staff of Light (10) Cape (5) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Tesla x 5 (45) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Tesla x 5 (45) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Gauss x 5 (45) = 85pts
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark = 193pts
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark = 193pts
Detachment total = 894
Outrider Detachment
Keyword: nephrekh
HQ: Cryptek(70) Staff of Light (10) Cape (5) = 85
Fast attack: Canoptek Scarabs x 3 = 39pts
Fast attack: Canoptek Scarabs x 3 = 39pts
Wraiths x 6 = 330pts
Destroyer x 6 (180) Gauss Cannon x 6 (120) = 300pts
Destroyer x 6 (180) Gauss Cannon x 6 (120) = 300pts
Detachment total = 1106
Army Total = 2000/2000pts
Have posted list before but open to suggestions for the hoard spam
Rottweiler wrote: Lychguard is mostly here as a Bodyguard to bubble-wrap and take wounds for the C'tan.
I hope you're not planning on using the Lychguard Guardian Protocols ability with the C'tan.
(while it *is* a character, it does *not* have a <Dynasty>, and as the Guardian Protocols ability only works on <Dynasty> Characters, it's no good in their case).
I've been a busy writing something up. It's a guide on the Power of the C'tan.
Let me know what you think:
Spoiler:
Guide to C'tan Powers; Wrath of the Star Gods
Since the release of the Necron codex, the C'tan Shards have been given new reality-warping powers at their disposal.
This guide will help you select the best powers for each opponent, as well as information on how to best use the selected powers.
First, let's re-cap what each power exactly does and rank them in order of usefulness and power. The powers will be ranked for both regular C'tan Shards and the Tesseract Vault. Feel free to disagree and let me know why!
Anti-Matter Meteor
Pick the closest visible enemy unit. 24". Roll a single D6, on a 2+ that target suffers D3 mortal wounds. On a roll of a 6+, the target suffers D6 mortal wounds.
The Vault does D6 mortal wounds on a roll of a 5+.
Regular: A
Vault: B
The bread&butter of the C'tan powers, this power is ranked A because of its reliability. Other powers require the enemy to be at a specific range or have a specific amount of models/wounds to be effective. Meteor will always do it's job no matter what enemy.
There is one catch though; the fact that it always hits the closest enemy model. This means it could be wasted on enemy chaff units. Be sure to position your C'tan properly so the Meteor hits something worthwhile!
As for Meteor on the Vault, it maintains pretty much the same function, with a somewhat higher chance of getting D6 mortal wounds. But you pick Meteor for its reliability, not because you are feeling lucky for a 5+ roll. (unless you ARE feelin' lucky....)
Time's Arrow Pick an enemy unit within 18" and visible to the C'tan. If you roll higher than the maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT, a single model is slain. The Vault requires you to roll equal instead of higher to the amount of maximum wounds the unit has. A roll of a 1 always fails.
Regular: B
Vault: A
The C'tans sniping ability. While it's range is on the short-side, it can be extremely useful to pick off low-wound characters to disrupt your opponent strategy. However, the fact that you need to roll HIGHER than the maximum wounds of the unit makes it quite unreliable on anything with more than three wounds.
Also note that it's the highest maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT. That there darn Dark Reaper squad with a 2 wound Exarch? It will require a 3+ for Time's Arrow to work.
The Vault significantly increases the chance of the Arrow to succeed, making it an excellent power for them.
It is also a great power to pick up against powerful multi-wound units, like Custodes, Wraithguard etc.
Also note; a model is SLAIN by Time's Arrow. Not even FNP saves can be taken against this.
Sky of the Falling Stars (sky)
Select three enemy units within 18" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each unit. The Vault subtracts one from this roll. If you roll lower than the amount of models in the unit, it takes D3 mortal wounds.
A roll of a 6 always fails.
Regular: A
Vault: C
An excellent ability that let's you deal out multiple mortal wounds to multiple targets! What's not to love? As long as the unit has 6 or more models, it has 5/6th chance to do it's job. This is why I ranked it quite low on the Vault; the Vault doesn't improve the ability by that much.
There is one big catch; as the game goes on and enemy units are down to a few models per unit, this power will start to lose it's effect. The Vault will be able to dish out wounds with it for a bit longer, but it's main power is the first few turns against medium to large enemy units.
Cosmic Fire
Roll a D6 for each enemy unit that is within 9" of the C'tan. On a 4+, that unit suffer D3 mortal wounds. The Vault wounds units on a 3+.
Regular: B
Vault: A
This ability has the potential to deal the most mortal wounds out of all the powers, if you can get the C'tan close enough. This can make it somewhat situational: In my opinion, you shouldn't suicide your C'tan Shard in unless there is another dangerous unit that your opponents needs to focus, or the C'tan itself is the distraction for your other powerful units. But, keep in mind; a C'tan pretty much always wants to get close. All but the Vault are amazing in melee and, they explode on a 4+.
This ability is ranked A on the Vault not only because it greatly increases the reliability of the power, but also due to its enormous size which will let you hit a lot more enemy units with Cosmic Fire.
Seismic Assault Select a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each model in that unit; on a 6+ that unit suffers a mortal wound. The Vault deals mortal wounds on a 5+ per model instead.
Regular:C
Vault: B
The ability speaks for itself; its anti-horde. As soon as a mob of Ork boyz or Genestealers appear on the table, this ability will go up to rank A. I remember somewhere in a Necron guide that Seismic Assault will do more mortal wounds on average than Meteor if the enemy unit has 11 or more models in it. But this was before the Meteor did D6 wounds on a 6+.
Trans dimensional Thunderbolt
Pick a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan, other than a <10 wound character. Roll a D6; a on 4+ (3+ for Vault) that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Then, roll a D6 for each other enemy unit within 3" of the previously struck unit. On a 4+ that unit suffer one mortal wound.
Regular: B
Vault: C
I'm not to sure on this one. On one hand it seems like an inferior version of Meteor, but on the other hand you can freely pick your target without caring about their model size or wounds. The 'AoE' effect of it depends on how tightly packed your enemy units are and how big the unit is you are targeting. A big blob of small units or a large monster will cover a large area, thus resulting in a more targets getting hit by the AoE effect.
Alrighty, that's the basics covered. Now let's go over on when to pick each power depending on the situation.
keep in mind You pick your C'tan powers right before the first unit is deployed. That means that stuff like enemy army roster, terrain, deployment zone/type etc. can all be taken into consideration when picking the powers for your C'tan.
So, let's go over a couple of scenarios?
Can your C'tan close the distance quickly either via Deceiver's Grand Illusion, T. C'tan 12" advance or some other way?
Regular: Cosmic Fire, Sky of the Falling Stars/Meteor
Vault: Cosmic Fire, Meteor, Time's Arrow, Thunderbolt
Does your opponents army have 2-3 wound models or important 3-4 wound characters?
Next up, I wanted to talk about the order in which the Vault can best use his powers, depending on the targets he is facing.
Horde, buffed by a FNP character
Arrow -> Seismic Assault -> Thunderbolt
Time's arrow on whatever is giving the horde FNP (Ork painboy, Deathguard plague surgeon) to make sure your mortal wounds won't get saved. Then, follow up by Seismic assault and lastly Thunderbolt. You want as many models in the horde as possible for Seismic Assault, hence why you do that before Thunderbolt. And lastly, the horde probably covers quite a lot of ground (maybe it's konga-lined to protect charges) this will let Thunderbolt's AoE effect hit a lot of targets.
Primaris marine squads, Custodes etc
Sky -> Arrow -> Meteor
This is a tough one; one the one hand you want to start with Sky, since the squads still have all the models thus making it most likely to go off. However, if you only wound a model with Sky, the 'slain' effect from Arrow is wasted on a wounded model.
Lastly, let's go over the two stratagems the C'tan Shards can use.
Wrath of the C'tan, 2 CP
Use this power after a C'tan Shard has used a power. Roll a D6; the C'tan Shard immediately uses the rolled uses that power, even if he has used it before.
Oef, this is a tough one. A random power for two whole CP? I'd definitely only use this if you have a Vault. And even then, you have to make sure as many of the 'optimal' conditions for each power are available. So;
-Is the Vault 9" close to several enemy units?
-are there 3 enemy units with 5 or more models in there?
-Is there a unit with 11 or more models in it nearby?
-Is there a 2-4 wound model that is worthwhile nearby?
Have by some miracle all these conditions been met? Sure, go ahead and use this stratagem.....
Cosmic Powers
Use this stratagem at the start of your turn. Select a C'tan Shard; replace one of his powers with a new C'tan power for the rest of the game.
Interesting. This gives us a way to be flexible with the situational powers. For instance, if there are no more enemy 5-6 model infantry units left, you might want to replace Sky. Or have the enemy hordes been dealt with? Perhaps you can replace Seismic Assault. I would however only recommend this on Vaults or T. C'tan with 2 powers. Regular C'tan usually have either Meteor or Thunderbolt and can only cast one power anyway.
There is also another use. Say you didn't pick Cosmic Fire, but for some reason your C'tan got close enough to your opponents army and it would have been perfect if you gave him Cosmic Fire at the start! Well now you can give that to him. Just keep in mind that it's at the START of your turn. If you have to rely on a high advance roll in order to get into a nice position for Cosmic Fire, it might not work out as you have hoped!
Dynas wrote: I think Gauss is the way to go in tourneys there is just too much -1 top hit out there.
As far as building a comp tourney list things to consider are the list you are going to come up against and how to handle them.
Ask how to handle the following:
Guilliman Gunline/Raptors
Chaos Soup/Monty
Tyranid Flyrants and Genestealers Kraken (fast) and Kronos
Eldar- Dark Reapers/Shinning Spears Altioc/Ynarri cheese
Mortal Wound Spam list
Necrons need to craft a list to play against all of these. Split Chapter Tactics (Dynastys) seems common in a lost of list. This might be something to consider.
Assume its ITC missions with points for Objectives and secondaries. Things to keep in mind would be limiting warrior squads to x19 rather than 20 to deny secondary points etc... You need to keep these things in mind.
We also need to keep in mind how do the Necron Alpha Strike and which stratagems to burn turn 1 to maximize that.
Cryptecs, C'tan, Warriors, Scarabs, Doomsday arks, destroyers, tomb blades seem to be the best units IMO. I would stay away from any Tesla (yes i know its good on paper, but you will run into -1 to hit in any major tourney.)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
With a lot of -1 to hit in ITC (nurgle, eldar, dark eldar, ravenguard etc) running Tesla is very very scary. You're paying a lot of extra points with a big chance to get bad matchup.
For practice beamers you get +1 STR so wounding on 2s eldars, guard, daemons etc, it costs less points and not affected by -1 to hit in a such a way as tesla does.
Don't forget Nids (malanthropes, Venomthropes Kraken WL trait). Nids did quiet well at adepticon.
I think a mix is more appropriate. All in on Gauss misses out on the powerful 24" camping of Tesla against armies with no -1 to hit, and all in on Tesla gets rocked by Raven Guard/Alaitoc/Malanthropes/etc, or even just high armor armies like Custodes that are going to get in their face. And a mix also gives you variable threats against balanced lists that are going to have different targets, as well.
Not entirely sold on Beamers, though. Sure cheap and have uses, but generally is going to lack power compared to the other options, especially when you get into that 12" range (which they do quite easily).
moonsmite wrote: got my first tournament with the codex this weekend, currently still debating a pylon list or two doomsday's and more destroyers list.
Though my main worry is hoard spam. know at least one person is bringing 100's of orc boys, and not sure if i have the fire power to stop it before i get slaughtered
anyone got any suggestions?
Spoiler:
Necron Army list
Command Points: 7
Battalion Detachment
Keyword: Sautekh
HQ: Catacomb Command Barge (138) Staff of Light (10) Gauss cannon (20)
= 169pts (warlord : 1 reroll per game and cp back on 5+)
HQ: Cryptek(70) Staff of Light (10) Cape (5) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Tesla x 5 (45) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Tesla x 5 (45) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Gauss x 5 (45) = 85pts
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark = 193pts
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark = 193pts
Detachment total = 894
Outrider Detachment
Keyword: nephrekh
HQ: Cryptek(70) Staff of Light (10) Cape (5) = 85
Fast attack: Canoptek Scarabs x 3 = 39pts
Fast attack: Canoptek Scarabs x 3 = 39pts
Wraiths x 6 = 330pts
Destroyer x 6 (180) Gauss Cannon x 6 (120) = 300pts
Destroyer x 6 (180) Gauss Cannon x 6 (120) = 300pts
Detachment total = 1106
Army Total = 2000/2000pts
Have posted list before but open to suggestions for the hoard spam
You're more suited to kill elites than hordes, so if you want to tailor to it then you need to change some stuff. I would consider dropping the Destroyers entirely, making that a Novokh detachment, and getting more Wraiths/Scarabs. Then maybe bump up the Immortal units a few models.
In general, it's a solid list though. Maybe a bit too much into Destroyers (two units is strong but feels a bit like overkill), but depending on your opponent quite good.
moonsmite wrote: got my first tournament with the codex this weekend, currently still debating a pylon list or two doomsday's and more destroyers list.
Though my main worry is hoard spam. know at least one person is bringing 100's of orc boys, and not sure if i have the fire power to stop it before i get slaughtered
anyone got any suggestions?
Spoiler:
Necron Army list
Command Points: 7
Battalion Detachment
Keyword: Sautekh
HQ: Catacomb Command Barge (138) Staff of Light (10) Gauss cannon (20)
= 169pts (warlord : 1 reroll per game and cp back on 5+)
HQ: Cryptek(70) Staff of Light (10) Cape (5) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Tesla x 5 (45) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Tesla x 5 (45) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Gauss x 5 (45) = 85pts
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark = 193pts
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark = 193pts
Detachment total = 894
Outrider Detachment
Keyword: nephrekh
HQ: Cryptek(70) Staff of Light (10) Cape (5) = 85
Fast attack: Canoptek Scarabs x 3 = 39pts
Fast attack: Canoptek Scarabs x 3 = 39pts
Wraiths x 6 = 330pts
Destroyer x 6 (180) Gauss Cannon x 6 (120) = 300pts
Destroyer x 6 (180) Gauss Cannon x 6 (120) = 300pts
Detachment total = 1106
Army Total = 2000/2000pts
Have posted list before but open to suggestions for the hoard spam
I would drop one unit of Tesla immortals, merge the remaining 2 into 1 large unit of 10. Drop a unit of 6 destoryers,
add warrior blobs with the 385 points you have. Should be able to get you around 2 blobs of 16. THis will help with your horde spam, give you some bodies for board control, and let you get Obj Secured troops.
Nagerash wrote: Anrakyr was always one of my favorite characters, and I would love it to read more books about him, and his quest, but appart from an anti-assault role, or some Deceiver shananigens I really don't see a good list with him.
I might try to make a Nihilakh or Novokh list with him as an deterrend vs assault armies. And if I don't have to run up the field but mainly do counter charges, teaming him up with some Praetorians works as well. Might even throw in Szeras.
But that is a very niche list that would make use of him. I really think GW forgot somehow with Anrakyr that 5" really is very slow if you can only walk from point to point.
The way I see Anrakyr is that if you have a couple extra points, he's barely more than a standard overlord, you replace your overlord with him to foo the exact same job, but with a bonus that your troop blobs near him are now more dangerous to charge, still not great in melee but a deterrent, while he himself hits the magic 8 str, and his arrow can be clutch.
Nagerash wrote: Anrakyr was always one of my favorite characters, and I would love it to read more books about him, and his quest, but appart from an anti-assault role, or some Deceiver shananigens I really don't see a good list with him.
I might try to make a Nihilakh or Novokh list with him as an deterrend vs assault armies. And if I don't have to run up the field but mainly do counter charges, teaming him up with some Praetorians works as well. Might even throw in Szeras.
But that is a very niche list that would make use of him. I really think GW forgot somehow with Anrakyr that 5" really is very slow if you can only walk from point to point.
The way I see Anrakyr is that if you have a couple extra points, he's barely more than a standard overlord, you replace your overlord with him to foo the exact same job, but with a bonus that your troop blobs near him are now more dangerous to charge, still not great in melee but a deterrent, while he himself hits the magic 8 str, and his arrow can be clutch.
I've taken to the following little setup with Anrakyr.
Anrakyr, +2x20 warriors, +Crytek with Fearless warlord trait and VoD
Its extremely hard to shift. Plasma doesn't work vs it. They all get 2 attacks, they don't run. If you get into melee, VoD the effected squad out, and shoot the offenders.
So, I know this is a dumb question, but I'm a stickler for rules so I have to ask.
As far as Dynasties go, you can choose from one of the listed ones and gain their benefits, or if you have a custom one, like me, you can choose to use your own. But, if you actually use your own, as in, change the keyword <Dynasty> to whatever your Dynasty is, you wouldn't be able to gain any dynasty special abilities and would be specifically gimping yourself.
Is there anything stopping you rules wise from saying "Yeah, this is X Dynasty of my creation, but they use the rules of Sautekh"?
Hey all, new to Necrons and returning to 40k (haven't played since 4th). Decided to throw together a list, not going to be seeing any tournament play but I'm trying to build a semi-competitive all comers list. Any C&C is greatly appreciated .
I haven't settled on warlord/warlord traits yet, or artifacts. I've got the veil of darkness in there on the cryptek, in case I need to move that blob of warriors around, but I'm not 100% on that choice yet.
I had originally wanted to go for 3 detachments, but couldn't fit the units I wanted in with the HQ tax. I think this list can handle most casual settings well. 10 scarabs and 20 warriors lets me have a solid amount of board control. I have decent unit support with my cryptek and the command barge (hopefully always using wave on one of the two immortal squads), while the destroyer + wraith gives me a solid death star to threaten tough targets. I'm a little worried that one DDA and a tomb sentinal is light for anti tank, so I'm considering dropping the barge for an overlord and getting illuminor in there. Any thoughts?
The stratagy is simple, you have no heavy targets so any heavy weapons your opponent takes will be useless. Waste those laz cannon shots on warriors, see what happens. The deceiver can move the overlord and itself up, hopefully with one squad of immortals. Cryptek can move the warriors up. Finally the 5 left over immortals can advance up or go for a back objective, having the sautekh trait means they can advance and still shoot so your army is fast. The deceiver is deadly with his mortal wound abilities. Nothing will run from moral thanks to the cryptek, and you even get a deny the witch ability. And the scarabs can run interference.
I've iterated a bit on your suggestion and decided to maximize my firepower by adding in Szeras for some minimal anti-tank as well as changing to Mephrit for -1 AP. I found that -3 AP Gauss Blasters are brutal to almost anything, and switching the Overlord for a Lord allows me to be a bigger threat to high-wound units and vehicles. I do lose some chaff as I only have 3 scarabs, but if played correctly and with Szeras buff I may be able to hold off in melee in case I get tangled in. I'd use the Warriors as chaff in this manner, using the Gauss Immortals as my firebase and the Deceiver to counter-charge.
Spoiler:
Mephrit Battalion
Szeras (trait: Immortal Pride, eldritch lance)
Lord (Veil of Darkness, Staff of Light)
Deceiver
20x Warriors
10x Immortas (Gauss)
5x Immortals (Tesla)
3x Scarabs
It's all aimed at alpha striking turn 1 by moving up Zseras and warriors with the Deceiver and veiling in the Lord and the Gauss Immortals. Tesla Immortals can advance to also contribute.
The key is preparing the deploy for the chance of losing initiative. If I'm counting I'll go second I'll set-up in a divided flank: I set up my large blob of Warriors on one flank, followed by the Veil Lord. Depending on who started, that could mean either 2 or 3 of my opponent's units are down already. If he bites the bait and sets up to counter me I'll just drop deceiver in that same flank to keep the ruse and then deploy everything else on the other corner, redeploying deceiver and the two units away before he starts (I'd always deploy the lord hidden so I can just bring 1 unit and leave him behind if needed). That game then is a slow march up midfield until I'm in killing range, not ideal, but doable on a 4x4,
It's not like at 1k people can easily wipe my 20 warrior blob, and if they move in CC they have to contend with all the mortal wounds the deceiver is generating from Cosmic Fire and Sky of falling stars.
What do you guys think? I could also just drop the 3 scarab bases for 2 extra immortals on the 5 man unit, I'm afraid these may give out First Blood too easily.
That's a solid looking change. Should make you silly mobile and give you the ability to redeploy as needed. Good luck, be sure to let us know how it goes.
As for the scarabs vs immortals remember scarabs have 4 wounds each, I think they will give you more millage than your giving them credit for. Plus you can self district them for mortal wounds, and if the opponent does shoot at them and kills a few bases so what, they are not shooting your really dangerous stuff. Plus they can be used to deny deep strike locations vs 2 immortals just being 2 immortals.
Nagerash wrote: Anrakyr was always one of my favorite characters, and I would love it to read more books about him, and his quest, but appart from an anti-assault role, or some Deceiver shananigens I really don't see a good list with him.
I might try to make a Nihilakh or Novokh list with him as an deterrend vs assault armies. And if I don't have to run up the field but mainly do counter charges, teaming him up with some Praetorians works as well. Might even throw in Szeras.
But that is a very niche list that would make use of him. I really think GW forgot somehow with Anrakyr that 5" really is very slow if you can only walk from point to point.
The way I see Anrakyr is that if you have a couple extra points, he's barely more than a standard overlord, you replace your overlord with him to foo the exact same job, but with a bonus that your troop blobs near him are now more dangerous to charge, still not great in melee but a deterrent, while he himself hits the magic 8 str, and his arrow can be clutch.
I've taken to the following little setup with Anrakyr.
Anrakyr, +2x20 warriors, +Crytek with Fearless warlord trait and VoD
Its extremely hard to shift. Plasma doesn't work vs it. They all get 2 attacks, they don't run. If you get into melee, VoD the effected squad out, and shoot the offenders.
Y
This is what I was doing before and want to do again now as Anrakyr is my favorite HQ. Which dynasty code are you thinking to give them?
Squad of 9:
LD 10. They kill 7 (10-7=3) on 4 1 flee, 5+ - 2 .
I think reanimation is overestimated. It's a nice bonus but building army around it does not worth it.
I get that the new RP is fluffier (Necrons are supposed to be immortal, not invincible), and has been tuned to be more in line with faction defining abilities like disgustingly resilient, and ATSKNF, but occasionally I miss having an ability you could rely on. Instead 8th ed RP is controlled by our opponents, a resource mechanic they have to manage to not get snowballed. If they are correctly managing it, it has very little effect on the game, outside of the effort required to manage it. That makes building around RP rather pointless, if your opponent isn't managing it well, you'll snowball them without spending extra points. If they are managing it well then the resources invested in enhancing RP will never get used.
At best, we can hope to punish mistakes and unlucky turns, but even on that we got sandbagged. Enhanced reanimation protocols is supposed to be our go to punish and it's awful. 2 CP gets you an 8% chance per RP roll to get an extra model back if there is a cryptek nearby, 6% otherwise, that is one of the worst returns on CP for any stratagem. Either the unit is large enough to make use of it and the individual brought back is worth 12 points, or the unit is too small to use if reliably. At 1 cp it might occasionally be worth a gamble, at 2 CP it's trash. Let's say someone killed 5 of 6 destroyers, and you drop the 2 CP to get enhanced reanimation protocols but don't have a cryptek nearby, there is a 73% chance that those 2 CP do nothing at all. That isn't even a gamble, that's just throwing CP off of a cliff.
Crypteks and res orbs require setup, you have to be near the unit (very near the unit in the crypteks case) at the beginning of movement, so we have to be predictive and can't be reactive, which means we can't punish.
Nagerash wrote: Anrakyr was always one of my favorite characters, and I would love it to read more books about him, and his quest, but appart from an anti-assault role, or some Deceiver shananigens I really don't see a good list with him.
I might try to make a Nihilakh or Novokh list with him as an deterrend vs assault armies. And if I don't have to run up the field but mainly do counter charges, teaming him up with some Praetorians works as well. Might even throw in Szeras.
But that is a very niche list that would make use of him. I really think GW forgot somehow with Anrakyr that 5" really is very slow if you can only walk from point to point.
The way I see Anrakyr is that if you have a couple extra points, he's barely more than a standard overlord, you replace your overlord with him to foo the exact same job, but with a bonus that your troop blobs near him are now more dangerous to charge, still not great in melee but a deterrent, while he himself hits the magic 8 str, and his arrow can be clutch.
I've taken to the following little setup with Anrakyr.
Anrakyr, +2x20 warriors, +Crytek with Fearless warlord trait and VoD
Its extremely hard to shift. Plasma doesn't work vs it. They all get 2 attacks, they don't run. If you get into melee, VoD the effected squad out, and shoot the offenders.
This is what I was doing before and want to do again now as Anrakyr is my favorite HQ. Which dynasty code are you thinking to give them?
@Dew
Mephrit if I'm vs marines, or Sautek against anything faster than that.
In my own case there's two things I automatically assume before each game I play with Necrons:
• that I will be going second.
• that RP will never come into effect.
Some might call that pessimistic, but for me it means I'm prepared for the worst (and if the above conditions do end up in my favor it plays out as a nice surprise).
The only thing I'm having issue adapting with is being alpha struck on. That should probably be mitigated with more/better Scarab usage, but it's trickier when your list is already tight on points so you gotta make cuts just to fit more bubble wrap in.
Squad of 9:
LD 10. They kill 7 (10-7=3) on 4 1 flee, 5+ - 2 .
I think reanimation is overestimated. It's a nice bonus but building army around it does not worth it.
I get that the new RP is fluffier (Necrons are supposed to be immortal, not invincible), and has been tuned to be more in line with faction defining abilities like disgustingly resilient, and ATSKNF, but occasionally I miss having an ability you could rely on. Instead 8th ed RP is controlled by our opponents, a resource mechanic they have to manage to not get snowballed. If they are correctly managing it, it has very little effect on the game, outside of the effort required to manage it. That makes building around RP rather pointless, if your opponent isn't managing it well, you'll snowball them without spending extra points. If they are managing it well then the resources invested in enhancing RP will never get used.
At best, we can hope to punish mistakes and unlucky turns, but even on that we got sandbagged. Enhanced reanimation protocols is supposed to be our go to punish and it's awful. 2 CP gets you an 8% chance per RP roll to get an extra model back if there is a cryptek nearby, 6% otherwise, that is one of the worst returns on CP for any stratagem. Either the unit is large enough to make use of it and the individual brought back is worth 12 points, or the unit is too small to use if reliably. At 1 cp it might occasionally be worth a gamble, at 2 CP it's trash. Let's say someone killed 5 of 6 destroyers, and you drop the 2 CP to get enhanced reanimation protocols but don't have a cryptek nearby, there is a 73% chance that those 2 CP do nothing at all. That isn't even a gamble, that's just throwing CP off of a cliff.
Crypteks and res orbs require setup, you have to be near the unit (very near the unit in the crypteks case) at the beginning of movement, so we have to be predictive and can't be reactive, which means we can't punish.
Exactly, you hit the nail on the head above RP. But that's why I use mostly warriors and a ghost ark, the ark ability happens at the end of our movement phase, so in that way it acts as a mobile fixer and doesnt need to be next to all units to get the second RP roll.
Is there anything stopping you rules wise from saying "Yeah, this is X Dynasty of my creation, but they use the rules of Sautekh"?
Per the Dynastic Codes entry on page 108, if you are playing a unique homebrew Dynasty, you get to do exactly this.
Well the ruling isn't clear. It says you can insert your own Dynasty name into the keyword. For example, if I use the Varantekh dynasty, all the abilities would say "friendly Varantekh units". And therefore they would not technically say Sautekh. I'm just wondering if a rules lawyer is gonna get me on this if I play at a local store event or something.
Is there anything stopping you rules wise from saying "Yeah, this is X Dynasty of my creation, but they use the rules of Sautekh"?
Per the Dynastic Codes entry on page 108, if you are playing a unique homebrew Dynasty, you get to do exactly this.
Well the ruling isn't clear. It says you can insert your own Dynasty name into the keyword. For example, if I use the Varantekh dynasty, all the abilities would say "friendly Varantekh units". And therefore they would not technically say Sautekh. I'm just wondering if a rules lawyer is gonna get me on this if I play at a local store event or something.
If someone did try and nail you on this then they are not worth playing. One of the longest running themes in 40k has been " make it your own, Forge your own narrative". So for someone to say "that's painted wrong you can't do that" is nonsense.
Is there anything stopping you rules wise from saying "Yeah, this is X Dynasty of my creation, but they use the rules of Sautekh"?
Per the Dynastic Codes entry on page 108, if you are playing a unique homebrew Dynasty, you get to do exactly this.
Well the ruling isn't clear. It says you can insert your own Dynasty name into the keyword. For example, if I use the Varantekh dynasty, all the abilities would say "friendly Varantekh units". And therefore they would not technically say Sautekh. I'm just wondering if a rules lawyer is gonna get me on this if I play at a local store event or something.
Quote directly from the Codex:
"If you have chosen a dynasty that does not feature on this list, you can choose the Dynastic Code that best suits the fighting style and battlefield strategies of the warriors that hail from it." so it means that X Dynasty (Varantekh) = Y Dynastic Code (Sautekh) for purposes of game play.
I'm pretty sure the wording is near identical across all the Codexes so that hobbyists can create their own Dynasties, Marine Chapters, Hive Worlds, what have you.
Is there anything stopping you rules wise from saying "Yeah, this is X Dynasty of my creation, but they use the rules of Sautekh"?
Per the Dynastic Codes entry on page 108, if you are playing a unique homebrew Dynasty, you get to do exactly this.
Well the ruling isn't clear. It says you can insert your own Dynasty name into the keyword. For example, if I use the Varantekh dynasty, all the abilities would say "friendly Varantekh units". And therefore they would not technically say Sautekh. I'm just wondering if a rules lawyer is gonna get me on this if I play at a local store event or something.
Quote directly from the Codex:
"If you have chosen a dynasty that does not feature on this list, you can choose the Dynastic Code that best suits the fighting style and battlefield strategies of the warriors that hail from it." so it means that X Dynasty (Varantekh) = Y Dynastic Code (Sautekh) for purposes of game play.
I'm pretty sure the wording is near identical across all the Codexes so that hobbyists can create their own Dynasties, Marine Chapters, Hive Worlds, what have you.
Ahhhh, you right. I was looking at the wrong page. Many thanks!
Is there anything stopping you rules wise from saying "Yeah, this is X Dynasty of my creation, but they use the rules of Sautekh"?
Per the Dynastic Codes entry on page 108, if you are playing a unique homebrew Dynasty, you get to do exactly this.
Well the ruling isn't clear. It says you can insert your own Dynasty name into the keyword. For example, if I use the Varantekh dynasty, all the abilities would say "friendly Varantekh units". And therefore they would not technically say Sautekh. I'm just wondering if a rules lawyer is gonna get me on this if I play at a local store event or something.
Quote directly from the Codex:
"If you have chosen a dynasty that does not feature on this list, you can choose the Dynastic Code that best suits the fighting style and battlefield strategies of the warriors that hail from it." so it means that X Dynasty (Varantekh) = Y Dynastic Code (Sautekh) for purposes of game play.
I'm pretty sure the wording is near identical across all the Codexes so that hobbyists can create their own Dynasties, Marine Chapters, Hive Worlds, what have you.
Basically what happens is you can add your own dynasty to the list.
So everything works as if you were from your chosen Dynasty, with the only exception that you don't have access to their Special characters. I'm not sure about WL traits and relics. I don't think you can use either, but not 100% on this.
Azuza001 wrote:
Plus that staff.... Man, the abysmal staff isn't a joke like some think it is. First in close combat it auto hits. That's 3 automatic hits in melee, at ap-2. He will easily kill a few things each turn it he gets stuck in. Plus at range it deals 1 auto hit that as long as you can roll higher than your targets leadership on 3d6 dice (shouldn't be hard) it deals d3 mortal wounds.
As for partial casters, they are cheap that's their only thing. You get more shots with tessla or gauss so it's a if you want to take them and can't afford more then ok but really they should not be running partial casters.
I may have jumped the gun regarding the staff as my impression from the text was that it was auto hit for shooting.
After reading it a couple more times I agree to what you say, no need to roll for hits in CC (RAW). However I believe that it is not RAI.
If the weapon is auto hit for CC too, then it would be "B", especially on a Cryptek or Lord as they are WS/BS3+.
Now, regarding the Particle Casters I dont agree. TB ending movement inside 12" with anything that can do CC is a terrible idea. As for the Particle Casters, they are less "cool" but for minimal cost & maximum utility the Particle beam TB isn't bad. 9 TB with PB will have 27 shots (+1S), 18 Wounds and are cheaper than 7 Tesla with 28 shots and 14 wounds. The point per wound here is a huge selling point for me.
For 32 pts, you get a 9 TB with PB (3+/5++) or a 9 TB with Tesla (4+). Throw in a CloakCryptec bubbled in a 9 model Particle TB unit and it is very tough and difficult to dislodge. Just stay at 20-24". Tesla is better if you know you are fighting an army without -1 to hit.
Particle TD= 24 points. 3x S6 attack, -1 to hit and 4+
2 Warriors = 24 points. 2-4x S4 AP1, 4+
with 20 Warriors and a Cryptek they can have 5++.. That is 95 pts /20 = 4.75 points per Warrior. The TB gets the same for 5 points. But Warriors cant get 3+, don't have the mobility, T5 and the -1 to hit.
TBH Warriors and TB are ranged units that die fast in CC, TB can use speed Warriors cannot.
The only problem for bikes is that its maybe harder for them to get cover saves.
ArtyomTrityak wrote:
Ridge wrote: On morale, the worst you can get with 9 with no negatives to morale is having to role a 1 or 2 with 8 casualties, which isn't great but doesn't particularly mean you are losing out on many. From experience, squads die fast, squads of 6 will usually result in you not getting much back from reanimation as they will most likely kill a squad and try and fire at another part of my army to avoid wasted fire.
Running squads of 6 also allows them more kills which can potentially edge them in front in kills per round resulting in them getting more points. Squads of 6 are certainly more versatile but I think you underestimate Leadership 10.
Squad of 9:
LD 10. They kill 7 (10-7=3) on 4 1 flee, 5+ - 2 .
I think reanimation is overestimated. It's a nice bonus but building army around it does not worth it.
I think that if the enemy uses a turn to focus fire down a TB unit to having 1-3 models left then using 2 CP to auto-pass morale and then get a chance to reanimate (preferably with Cryptek +1) and get ~3 units back is well worth it. Even if it is a Particle TB (especially one with 3+/4++). "Enhanced Reanimation Protocols" are just so expensive but you should get 1 model (24-37 points) for the 2CP, not really worth it but the psychological effect is demoralizing for the enemy if you get a lot of 1s and get to re-roll :p
But is the CloakCryptek wort the 85 points? How many RP will he need to be worthwile?
Then in your turn you should be able to reduce his overall firepower, maneuver (14"+1-6" should do it) the TB to make sure they don't get killed next turn and get another RP. If he goes for the TB again its good for you, something else isn't dying. Budget 18W -1 to hit and 3+/5++ is really a nice profile.
Maxed Tomb Blades (9) can be near an Immortal Pride WL to auto-pass Morale so you could save those CP's for something else.
Is there anything stopping you rules wise from saying "Yeah, this is X Dynasty of my creation, but they use the rules of Sautekh"?
Per the Dynastic Codes entry on page 108, if you are playing a unique homebrew Dynasty, you get to do exactly this.
Well the ruling isn't clear. It says you can insert your own Dynasty name into the keyword. For example, if I use the Varantekh dynasty, all the abilities would say "friendly Varantekh units". And therefore they would not technically say Sautekh. I'm just wondering if a rules lawyer is gonna get me on this if I play at a local store event or something.
Quote directly from the Codex:
"If you have chosen a dynasty that does not feature on this list, you can choose the Dynastic Code that best suits the fighting style and battlefield strategies of the warriors that hail from it." so it means that X Dynasty (Varantekh) = Y Dynastic Code (Sautekh) for purposes of game play.
I'm pretty sure the wording is near identical across all the Codexes so that hobbyists can create their own Dynasties, Marine Chapters, Hive Worlds, what have you.
Basically what happens is you can add your own dynasty to the list.
So everything works as if you were from your chosen Dynasty, with the only exception that you don't have access to their Special characters. I'm not sure about WL traits and relics. I don't think you can use either, but not 100% on this.
In which case they're still Sautekh but felt like wearing something different that day.
Nobody is going to enforce colors. Nobody has that kinda energy.
Example: My Necrons come from a dynasty I created (Zarith). Their color scheme is black shoulders with green accents and gold trimming on top of a silver necrodermis. The vehicles are primarily green. This doesn't align with any standard dynasty. It's most similar to Sautekh, but not exactly like it. The Dynastic Code that fits my playstyle best, though, is Mephrit, so that's the code I use. As long as I'm consistent and don't change the code from battle to battle to gain an advantage, no one has a problem with this.
v0iddrgn wrote: Maxed Tomb Blades (9) can be near an Immortal Pride WL to auto-pass Morale so you could save those CP's for something else.
I think the best W trait is character sniper. I would run it 100% time. CCB sniper is awesome.
Will try to run 9x practice TB. Units with 6xTB worked cool for me. Need to test units 9x
So I just got a new box of Tomb Blades, and while I know it has been talked about on here, I can't remember if there was a consensus on what the de facto set up and strategy for Tomb Blades. Gauss/Tesla? Dynasty Code? Should we keep distance or go within 12" for Rapid Fire/Mephrit Code and risk assault?
So what's the thought behind only giving some Tomb Blades shield vanes (and not all or none)? Do you give the damage to the shielded guys first, or wait for the squishy models to be killed, and leave the ++ guys till last?
I hadn't considered splitting units this way before, hence my question on how to run them!
MarkM wrote:There's a small but growing number who are starting to think that Particle Casters may be a good option.
In a unit of 9 with 3 'vanes that is effectively 25pts per model, or 26pts if you use 6 'vanes.
Using Dicehammer (not familiar with the site so correct me if I am wrong), Particle Beamers are about half as effective at damage dealing than Gauss and Tesla. So against 24 point per model PBTB versus 32 point per model GB/TCTB, I think GB/TC comes out on top in point efficiency. I could see the appeal of PBTB if you are playing low point games or want to fill out a fast attack slot with some moderately cheap units that can still do some damage, but since we are only getting about a 25% point discount in exchange for about 50% of our fire power, PBTB aren't a wise investment for most situations.
hvg3akaek wrote:So what's the thought behind only giving some Tomb Blades shield vanes (and not all or none)? Do you give the damage to the shielded guys first, or wait for the squishy models to be killed, and leave the ++ guys till last?
I hadn't considered splitting units this way before, hence my question on how to run them!
You do raise an intriguing question. I would preferably go for the way of planning mentioned above essentially saying "Expect the worse, and anything better is a fight in your advantage" and give all my TB Shieldvanes so they can take focus fire more effectively and not put more pressure on the few guys left standing. It is an interesting idea that could help save some points, but since Shieldvanes are only 3 points a piece, I find it a worthy investment to give it to all the TB.
hvg3akaek wrote: So what's the thought behind only giving some Tomb Blades shield vanes (and not all or none)? Do you give the damage to the shielded guys first, or wait for the squishy models to be killed, and leave the ++ guys till last?
I hadn't considered splitting units this way before, hence my question on how to run them!
You direct attacks based on the incoming weapon profile. You can do that freely as long as you don't already have damage on a unit.
Lascannon shoots you up? Have the shadowlooms take the hit so you get the benefit of 5++.
Guardsman squad shoot you up? Send the attacks to the shieldvanes so you're using 3+.
Smite lands on your squad? It kills a normal (un-upgraded) model.
Trying to put both shadowlooms and shieldvanes on 9x models is a 25% increase per model. If you're not expecting to get shot at by a dozen lascannons, you can save 30 points by putting looms on 3 models instead of 6, and save another 18 points by doing the same with Shieldvanes. You get most of the benefit of the upgrades at 1/3rd the price.
These costs are not correct if you're giving them the same non-gun upgrades.
Edited. Thank you for pointing that out. Honestly have no idea how that happened lol. My point still stands, even more so now that it is 25% point discount for 50% power reduction.
Xachariah wrote: Trying to put both shadowlooms and shieldvanes on 9x models is a 25% increase per model. If you're not expecting to get shot at by a dozen lascannons, you can save 30 points by putting looms on 3 models instead of 6, and save another 18 points by doing the same with Shieldvanes. You get most of the benefit of the upgrades at 1/3rd the price.
Speaking of thirds,
I'm considering running 9 TBs in a unit,
3 with Shields
3 with Looms
3 naked
For the simple reasoning of being able to better distribte incoming hits, as outlined above.
(though maybe a 4/4/1 split might be better. Will experiment)
As far as arming them and Dynasty goes,
For a unit of 9 I'm going to go Tesla (with Mephrit so I can maximize my efficiency with Talent for Annihilation, or Sautekh so I can give them +1 to hit with Methodical Destruction).
If I was going 6 maybe Gauss. (Dynasty is less important there)
If I was taking 3 I'd assume it was because I wanted something cheap to fill a slot, so would consider P.Beamers then (probably Mephrit there as well just to give them a little more punch, but Nephrekh wouldn't be bad if I just want them zooming around to Objectives, which is probably what the primary goal of a unit of 3 would be).
You know we have mentioned taking mixed upgrades on the tomb blades to maximize performance, but I don't think we have done the same thing for mixed weapons.
At what point does 18 gauss blasters become overkill. Maybe half of them could be partical blasters to save on points. Or mix gauss and tesla and you can take casualties based on what your opponent has on there side of the field.
So any chance I could get some advice on assembling Forgebane? Last I played was 3rd ed so these newfangled plastic Necrons are giving me too many options.
I managed to get a second Necron half so I can make 10 man units of Immortals and Lychguard.
I was thinking gauss immortals, warscythe lychguard and particle casters on the wraiths. That way I can use them for a variety of dynasties.
So with tomb blades on a unit of 9 im thinking 9x shield vanes
6x nebuloscope 3x loom. Weapons variable since i magnetized them. What are peoples opinions on the scope. Is it worth it? Or should we rely on the strategem instead?
Can someone tell me why Nightscythes are a D category this edition?
I always liked the idea of invasion beams, and the 1CP for 2 units from invasion beams sounds fun. I was thinking a 1500 list like;
2x DDA Nightscythe
Deciever
VoD
Deathmarks
So the idea being playing around minimal drops. Having most of the infantry arrive via beams. Having the ability to reposition my deployment and having very few targets turn 1. VoD gives me some additional midgame teleport shinanigans.
But why is the Nightscythe so lowly ranked? is it the risk of getting downed? thus by having 2 units in reserves is a bad idea, as the 1CP in the event of a scythe dying means I lose 1 unit.
Is the Doomscythe that muchy better as a single unit? Basically I have 1 that I can make as either/magnetised and i want to run it.
These costs are not correct if you're giving them the same non-gun upgrades.
Edited. Thank you for pointing that out. Honestly have no idea how that happened lol. My point still stands, even more so now that it is 25% point discount for 50% power reduction.
I love 1-sided math hammer What about the fact that for the same points I get several more wounds, making them more survivable? More likely to trigger RP. Or cover more ground. Or that a cheaper unit allows me to fit in an extra destroyer?
Math Hammer is a tool - it is not and never will be - the whole picture.
I think both Flyers are bad because they are way to easy to kill.
12 T6 3+ wounds will drop exremely easy.
My Fireraptor is 14 T7 3+ wound and can get a 5++ oder 5+++ depending on the list, and still drops regularly on T1.
Second, compare the firepower between a DoomSycthe and a Doomsday Ark:
W3 Shots S10 -4 D6 (on a 4+ unless Sautekh)
vs
W6 Shots S10 -5 D6 .
Sure the Ark has to stand still, but it costs less points and is waaaayy more durable because of QS.
PS:
Additionally the DS Stratagem is one of the worst ever:
So you gonna give up 600Pts of Shooting to get a 66% Chance to do ca. 6 Mortal Wounds? And only if you get first turn, because everyone will kill at least one of the DSs if you put 3 on the table....
stormcraft wrote: I think both Flyers are bad because they are way to easy to kill.
12 T6 3+ wounds will drop exremely easy.
My Fireraptor is 14 T7 3+ wound and can get a 5++ oder 5+++ depending on the list, and still drops regularly on T1.
Second, compare the firepower between a DoomSycthe and a Doomsday Ark:
W3 Shots S10 -4 D6 (on a 4+ unless Sautekh)
vs
W6 Shots S10 -5 D6 .
Sure the Ark has to stand still, but it costs less points and is waaaayy more durable because of QS.
PS:
Additionally the DS Stratagem is one of the worst ever:
So you gonna give up 600Pts of Shooting to get a 66% Chance to do ca. 6 Mortal Wounds? And only if you get first turn, because everyone will kill at least one of the DSs if you put 3 on the table....
I agree with you, it looks nice on paper, but there's very few armies I can see it earning it's points back against. I know someone who plays pure custodes so I'll try it against them.
Other then that it's very much a one trick pony
Edit: one thing that annoys me about the codex is the amount of equipment exclusive to certain units. Why wouldn't a cryptek mount shadowlooms on a NS/DS, it's such a fragile unit and with a 5++ it would be that bit more survivable
Thank you for the responses. I see what you mean about its output and comparable survivability. I still want to run one, I think i'll run it as a nightscythe
Spoiler:
(only reason I want to is my necrons are an ork-necron conversion army - so all robo-orks and my flyer is mounted side ways so it looks like a giant Bad Moonz symbol and it looks f**king bad-ass).
I think if I run it as a nightscythe il get the most fun from it. With 2x DDA starting on the board and hopefully minimal other drops, it will either; Get focussed hard, giving the DDA's a pass turn 1. Or it will get ignored and I can fly it around like a bad-ass moon Sh*tting out robo-orks The rest of my list is; wraiths, scarabs, deceiver and infantry. waiting on dex to flesh it out, but should be mobile and good for casual games.
EnTyme wrote: Example: My Necrons come from a dynasty I created (Zarith). Their color scheme is black shoulders with green accents and gold trimming on top of a silver necrodermis. The vehicles are primarily green. This doesn't align with any standard dynasty. It's most similar to Sautekh, but not exactly like it. The Dynastic Code that fits my playstyle best, though, is Mephrit, so that's the code I use. As long as I'm consistent and don't change the code from battle to battle to gain an advantage, no one has a problem with this.
I feel you. I was feeling Novokh for my dynasty (My overlord is very fond of the Voidreaper, and his Vargard will now employ the Bloodscythe). But at the same time, my usual playstyle also involves heavy infantry and shooting, so Mephrit also appeals. So realistically, I'll be playing multiple lists and tactics, but I don't know which tactic I'll make my "main".
Solar Shock wrote: Thank you for the responses. I see what you mean about its output and comparable survivability. I still want to run one, I think i'll run it as a nightscythe
Spoiler:
(only reason I want to is my necrons are an ork-necron conversion army - so all robo-orks and my flyer is mounted side ways so it looks like a giant Bad Moonz symbol and it looks f**king bad-ass).
I think if I run it as a nightscythe il get the most fun from it. With 2x DDA starting on the board and hopefully minimal other drops, it will either; Get focussed hard, giving the DDA's a pass turn 1. Or it will get ignored and I can fly it around like a bad-ass moon Sh*tting out robo-orks The rest of my list is; wraiths, scarabs, deceiver and infantry. waiting on dex to flesh it out, but should be mobile and good for casual games.
Sadly, as much as i love those Nightscythe (and Monoliths), i think the Tomb World deployment is not a good mechanic. It keeps the worst of all the mechanics it tries to combine.
It's still not a transport, no you cannot move when you deploy AND when the Nightscythe/Monolith is popped you lose everything inside unless you use 1CP.
But it's worse if you try to put multiple unit in one Nightscythe/Monolith because you can only save one (maybe two if the Enhanced Beams can work with Emergency Beams, hope it's FAQ).
So you technically always have to commit on multiple Nightscythe/Monolith to be sure that they cannot be destroyed on the same turn before deploying the units 'inside'.
And for me the worst of the worst is that my opponent is a Dark Eldar player and "Agent of Vect" counter to Emergency Beams.
Given the price of 1 archon and 2x5 kabalites, you will also see it on all Eldar soup i think.
If you don't go close combat, i think Nephrek is the way to go it's much much better (less points, more reliable).
These costs are not correct if you're giving them the same non-gun upgrades.
Edited. Thank you for pointing that out. Honestly have no idea how that happened lol. My point still stands, even more so now that it is 25% point discount for 50% power reduction.
I love 1-sided math hammer What about the fact that for the same points I get several more wounds, making them more survivable? More likely to trigger RP. Or cover more ground. Or that a cheaper unit allows me to fit in an extra destroyer?
Math Hammer is a tool - it is not and never will be - the whole picture.
You do have a point, a point I usually point as well. Not sure what has me off my game today lol. The trade off in making them less damage oriented to buff them defensive wise, to ignore cover, or take an extra Destroyer and still have points for upgrades is very appealing. I guess it boils down to whether you want them to be more defensive or offensive oriented, or if you have enough points to splurge for both.
I get that the new RP is fluffier (Necrons are supposed to be immortal, not invincible), and has been tuned to be more in line with faction defining abilities like disgustingly resilient, and ATSKNF, but occasionally I miss having an ability you could rely on. Instead 8th ed RP is controlled by our opponents, a resource mechanic they have to manage to not get snowballed. If they are correctly managing it, it has very little effect on the game, outside of the effort required to manage it. That makes building around RP rather pointless, if your opponent isn't managing it well, you'll snowball them without spending extra points. If they are managing it well then the resources invested in enhancing RP will never get used.
At best, we can hope to punish mistakes and unlucky turns, but even on that we got sandbagged. Enhanced reanimation protocols is supposed to be our go to punish and it's awful. 2 CP gets you an 8% chance per RP roll to get an extra model back if there is a cryptek nearby, 6% otherwise, that is one of the worst returns on CP for any stratagem. Either the unit is large enough to make use of it and the individual brought back is worth 12 points, or the unit is too small to use if reliably. At 1 cp it might occasionally be worth a gamble, at 2 CP it's trash. Let's say someone killed 5 of 6 destroyers, and you drop the 2 CP to get enhanced reanimation protocols but don't have a cryptek nearby, there is a 73% chance that those 2 CP do nothing at all. That isn't even a gamble, that's just throwing CP off of a cliff.
Crypteks and res orbs require setup, you have to be near the unit (very near the unit in the crypteks case) at the beginning of movement, so we have to be predictive and can't be reactive, which means we can't punish.
While I would agree that this is all basically true (especially enhanced RP being terrible), I don't think RP is something entirely in the hands of your opponent. Once you're on the table you should always be looking out for ways to take advantage of it.
A couple of examples form my last game:
-At deployment I only had a small piece of LOS blocking terrain but I managed to hide half of two 10 man Immortal units and half a destroyer unit behind it. The tau could damage all of these units but not finish any of them off. If RP didn't exist I would have hidden the most valuable unit (destroyers) and left the Immortals exposed.
-I put my Tesla TBs closer than necessary to a group of fire warriors and they got rapid fired to death. They had the mobility and range to avoid being rapid fired but I was careless. That would be a mistake with any unit but is even worse when it denies you RP.
RP also becomes more effective the less points your opponent has on the table. That means it's better in 1000pt games but also means that if you have a blob of 20 warriors in a 2000pt game you should try to avoid having them targeted in the early game. If on turn 3 both armies have less than 1000pts left those warriors become a much bigger threat.
TLDR: Getting RP is not something you should plan a list around but once you hit the table you should absolutely be looking for any opportunity to take advantage of it, either keep units alive or at least messing with the opponents target priority.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: if you have a blob of 20 warriors in a 2000pt game you should try to avoid having them targeted in the early game. If on turn 3 both armies have less than 1000pts left those warriors become a much bigger threat.
Welllll, if that's really the case, perhaps taking Nephrekh Warriors (kept off the table until later in the game then popped in via Translocation Crypt) would be worth considering.
I mean seriously,
Imagine your opponent is camping something on an objective on the other side of the table, thinking it's completely safe from falling into your hands. Then turn three, oops, looks like 20 ObSec Warriors just arrived to take it from him.
(this might actually make me rethink my position on Warriors).
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: if you have a blob of 20 warriors in a 2000pt game you should try to avoid having them targeted in the early game. If on turn 3 both armies have less than 1000pts left those warriors become a much bigger threat.
Welllll, if that's really the case, perhaps taking Nephrekh Warriors (kept off the table until later in the game then popped in via Translocation Crypt) would be worth considering.
I mean seriously,
Imagine your opponent is camping something on an objective on the other side of the table, thinking it's completely safe from falling into your hands. Then turn three, oops, looks like 20 ObSec Warriors just arrived to take it from him.
(this might actually make me rethink my position on Warriors).
This honestly sounds like a sound tactic. already love that dynasty for deep striking units and fast moving to objectives. going to have to give my warriors more thought.
ScarletRose wrote: So any chance I could get some advice on assembling Forgebane? Last I played was 3rd ed so these newfangled plastic Necrons are giving me too many options.
I managed to get a second Necron half so I can make 10 man units of Immortals and Lychguard.
I was thinking gauss immortals, warscythe lychguard and particle casters on the wraiths. That way I can use them for a variety of dynasties.
Wraiths are already really expensive, I plan on building mine bare with no upgrades.
As for lychguard, my question is do you plan on playing for fun, semi competitive, or competitive?
Lychguard are not that good, I mean they are good but their lack of speed makes them not that good, most things that they would want to be getting into it with can stay outside their range. I plan on making mine into custom deathmarks, just use the immortal bodies and the left over deathmarks heads and guns from the immortal spruce.
Point for point death marks get a bad rap but I think they are pretty good. They are flexible enough to be able to get you where you need fire Support and resistant enough to take some wounds. A squad of 5 in deep strike waiting for your opponent to drop stuff in can be very effective since deathmarks can teleport in when another enemy model deepstrikes and then you get free shots at it. I have ruined my opponents plans often with this, be it putting them in between what they were deep striking in to charge giving me a mobile buffer zone, or dropping in and getting lucky on my wound rolls killing half an enemy squad thanks to 6's (which cause mortal wounds).
Keeping Warriors in reserve is one option that could work.
I also think that keeping 5-10 squad members out of LOS in your DZ while the rest of the unit conga lines out for board control is an option. They can then take the odd shot, grab nearby objectives, or tempt the opponent to waste shots on them while they wait for battlefield conditions to get less deadly.
Point for point death marks get a bad rap but I think they are pretty good. They are flexible enough to be able to get you where you need fire Support and resistant enough to take some wounds. A squad of 5 in deep strike waiting for your opponent to drop stuff in can be very effective since deathmarks can teleport in when another enemy model deepstrikes and then you get free shots at it. I have ruined my opponents plans often with this, be it putting them in between what they were deep striking in to charge giving me a mobile buffer zone, or dropping in and getting lucky on my wound rolls killing half an enemy squad thanks to 6's (which cause mortal wounds).
How do you manage the bit in bold?
They DS 9"+a hairs width from the unit that they want to charge. You counter DS. Where? How can you block their charge?
It depends on deployment of course, but if you have scarab swarms as you blocker you can leave 2" in between them which is enough room to place your deathmarks in. So it goes something like this.
D S D S D S D D
Or you can do this
. . S S S
D D D D D
And put them behind the buffer unit to make a second buffer zone.
Also sometimes people want to try a multi charge against 2 squads, one is 9.1" away and the other is 10 or 11.
My point is its doable, I may not have explained it well in my post but it's an option.
When I use Deathmarks counter deep strike ability it's usually to blunt an alpha. At that point you really need to maximize your shots, so Mephrit for the AP-1.
Also helpful is to put a Lord near whatever you think the juiciest target will be. That way when your DMs show up they'll be able to benefit from that ever important reroll 1s to-wound.
(I guess you might even be able to set up a trap, purposely leaving an area open near something valuable in the hopes that your opponent will fall for it and drop his guys there. But as thematic for Deathmarks doing something like that might be, I have a feeling most players won't be dumb enough to fall for something like that).
ScarletRose wrote: So any chance I could get some advice on assembling Forgebane? Last I played was 3rd ed so these newfangled plastic Necrons are giving me too many options.
I managed to get a second Necron half so I can make 10 man units of Immortals and Lychguard.
I was thinking gauss immortals, warscythe lychguard and particle casters on the wraiths. That way I can use them for a variety of dynasties.
Other people have run the math on tesla vs. gauss for the Immortals - largely, I think it comes down to what Dynasty you want to run, as well as what you expect to come up against. Tesla weapons are great fun against hordes, but the extra AP on the gauss has come in handy for me against Space Marines.
Warscythe Lychguard are, as pointed out by someone else above, not considered very competitive. Against the newbie group that I play with, they're a ton of fun as a defensive unit and dish out plenty of wounds. I want to try a list with more Lychguard and a Nightscythe/Veil of Darkness/Deceiver list, which would get blown off the table against a competitive army - but could be a ton of fun in friendlies. If you're not building for tournaments and your friends are willing to humor you with Blitz-style games, I would say Warscythe Lychguard won't disappoint.
For Wraiths, the gun barrel actually fits tightly enough in the holder that I didn't need to choose which one to glue in - I can swap it out if I choose to.
A note on Warscythe Lychguard: They were pretty solid in Killteam-style small skirmish games in 7th edition, and with Killteam getting an update soon, you may want to build them for that if your group plays.
EnTyme wrote: A note on Warscythe Lychguard: They were pretty solid in Killteam-style small skirmish games in 7th edition, and with Killteam getting an update soon, you may want to build them for that if your group plays.
Is there any info about release date of Killteam update?
EnTyme wrote: A note on Warscythe Lychguard: They were pretty solid in Killteam-style small skirmish games in 7th edition, and with Killteam getting an update soon, you may want to build them for that if your group plays.
If you're still required to field units in their entirety instead of just being able to stick individual guys on the table I highly doubt you'll be seeing many Lychguard in Killteam lists.
Hey guys, just a quick question about whether a unit is good or not, (I ask this a lot, I'm a terrible player), are Triarch stalkers any good, and if so, what loadout is the best?
They aren't as good as they were in 7th, because of the Dynasty codes don't affect it + you can pick Nihilakh for almost the same buff armywide.
They do still have a place in some lists though. If you're not Nihilakh and still want your infantry/Darks to reroll 1's to hit, then it could prove very usefull. I don't think there is a wrong way to build him. It all depends on what you want him to do. If you wan't anti-tank to help out a DDark then go for the longer range TGC, if you want Anti-tank to help out an infantry force moving up the field, you could go for the Heat ray, which has a very good charge defence with his 2D6 heavy flamer hits.
If you already have enough Anti-tank and want to mainly assist your infantry at range, go for the shredder.
Tiberius501 wrote: Hey guys, just a quick question about whether a unit is good or not, (I ask this a lot, I'm a terrible player), are Triarch stalkers any good, and if so, what loadout is the best?
Best with HGC for DDA support because long range and similar weapon profile, but i prefers second DDA instead.
Azuza001 wrote:Yeah, a few more Posts down from when I wrote that I agreed that I jumped the gun on partical caster tomb blades. If you have 9 and want the firepower of 7 double tessla than by all means go for it, math says it's the same but with more wounds. However I also point out not everyone has 9, and if you want the firepower of 9 but can only afford 6 then tessela will get you close.
Well TBH how many models you have do or do not own has NO impact on the "theoretical" effect or usefulness of the units, which I think we are discussing here.
For Necrons with RP the maximum unit size is always better!
Sometimes even for units without RP!
The core feature of Necrons is RP, even if its not perfect it still can allow dead units to rise again. Having extra 4 (28% more) wounds shouldn't be scoffed at, no offense scoffs, with -1 to hit and 4+ save. Even less so for with -1 to hit & 3+/5++.
Am I wrong to claim that a unit of 9 TB with 9 x 2 wounds, -1 to hit, 3+/5++ is the toughest independent Necron unit?
Well no a 10 model Lychguard unit with Shield is tougher, they have 2 more wounds, but point for point or model for model I would say the TB is tougher.
skoffs wrote:
Rottweiler wrote: Lychguard is mostly here as a Bodyguard to bubble-wrap and take wounds for the C'tan.
I hope you're not planning on using the Lychguard Guardian Protocols ability with the C'tan.
(while it *is* a character, it does *not* have a <Dynasty>, and as the Guardian Protocols ability only works on <Dynasty> Characters, it's no good in their case).
Yeah, that is right, my bad. I should have double checked. They are a tough unit with the shield and can support/bubble-wrap the C'tan, better than any other unit in the roster. The next best thing would be Wraiths, but they do not have the same staying power.
The idea is not to just charge everything, its more of trying to charge weaker units and use C'tan to deal MW, at least the Guardian Protocols can be used on whoever is with them OL/L/C.
Grimgold wrote:
I get that the new RP is fluffier (Necrons are supposed to be immortal, not invincible), and has been tuned to be more in line with faction defining abilities like disgustingly resilient, and ATSKNF, but occasionally I miss having an ability you could rely on. Instead 8th ed RP is controlled by our opponents, a resource mechanic they have to manage to not get snowballed. If they are correctly managing it, it has very little effect on the game, outside of the effort required to manage it. That makes building around RP rather pointless, if your opponent isn't managing it well, you'll snowball them without spending extra points. If they are managing it well then the resources invested in enhancing RP will never get used.
At best, we can hope to punish mistakes and unlucky turns, but even on that we got sandbagged. Enhanced reanimation protocols is supposed to be our go to punish and it's awful. 2 CP gets you an 8% chance per RP roll to get an extra model back if there is a cryptek nearby, 6% otherwise, that is one of the worst returns on CP for any stratagem. Either the unit is large enough to make use of it and the individual brought back is worth 12 points, or the unit is too small to use if reliably. At 1 cp it might occasionally be worth a gamble, at 2 CP it's trash. Let's say someone killed 5 of 6 destroyers, and you drop the 2 CP to get enhanced reanimation protocols but don't have a cryptek nearby, there is a 73% chance that those 2 CP do nothing at all. That isn't even a gamble, that's just throwing CP off of a cliff.
Crypteks and res orbs require setup, you have to be near the unit (very near the unit in the crypteks case) at the beginning of movement, so we have to be predictive and can't be reactive, which means we can't punish.
I agree, this stratagem is just so BAD. It would have been slightly better if it were "+1 to RP rolles" for 1CP. With 1 of 20 Warriors left in a unit its only saving ~3 Warriors or 36 points and that is after spending 2CP to autopass morale.
However it it were "You can re-roll failed RP" for 1 CP, then it would be a good one and would be used. Not Super but giving other units than Warriors a chance to re-roll (Ghost Arch gives Warriors a re-roll RP).
I think that by using other ability's, traits or stratagems we should be controlling our RP. We should have the option to use them to boost RP vs using them to do other shinanigans like deepstrike, MW, buff attack etc.
Where Enhanced Reanimation Protocols should have been our go-to stratagem it is probably never going to be used.
v0iddrgn wrote:Maxed Tomb Blades (9) can be near an Immortal Pride WL to auto-pass Morale so you could save those CP's for something else.
Yes, and that is one of the best Traits as it also allows you to deny the witch.
ArtyomTrityak wrote:[I think the best W trait is character sniper. I would run it 100% time. CCB sniper is awesome.
Will try to run 9x practice TB. Units with 6xTB worked cool for me. Need to test units 9x
Yes, the Mephrit "Assassin" CCB w/ Tesla (30") & Voltaic Staff (18") -Merciless Tyrant- is SWEET
However the army composition is the main thing, the HQ choices should be buffing the army as a whole, not just to fulfill a niche role.
Xachariah wrote:
You direct attacks based on the incoming weapon profile. You can do that freely as long as you don't already have damage on a unit.
Lascannon shoots you up? Have the shadowlooms take the hit so you get the benefit of 5++.
Guardsman squad shoot you up? Send the attacks to the shieldvanes so you're using 3+.
Smite lands on your squad? It kills a normal (un-upgraded) model.
Trying to put both shadowlooms and shieldvanes on 9x models is a 25% increase per model. If you're not expecting to get shot at by a dozen lascannons, you can save 30 points by putting looms on 3 models instead of 6, and save another 18 points by doing the same with Shieldvanes. You get most of the benefit of the upgrades at 1/3rd the price.
Well, you dont haveto be hit by a Lascannon to benefit from 5++, any weapon AP-3 or more will benefit. Example: 25% of all hits from Eldar Guardian's Shuriken Catapult will be 5++ instead of a 6+.
I don't think you get most of the benefit for 1/3 the price. If you are being shot by Lascannons then as soon as you fail three 5++ saves then the rest of the unit wont save anything vs lascannon....
You only get 1/3 of the protection for 1/3 of the price. you can try and cheese some effect from it but honestly, if you are being hit with Alpha then you want the extra protection. Saving 48 points for what? 3 Scarabs...
Of all Necron units I believe the TB has the best chance of getting to use RP and actually recovering. If it is demolished by enemy to 1 model, it can move 14" +d6" (or 6" depending on Dynasty) and get out of range or into cover.
Mathammer
Spoiler:
Maybe I'm doing this wrong
9 TB can statistically take 24 Lascannon shots and have 1 bike left, 9 TB & vanes takes 28 Lascannon shots and have 1 bike left, 9 TB & loom takes 36 Lascannon shots and have 1 bike left.
Shadowloom gives 50% durability for 16% price increase and Shieldvanes give 17% for 9% cost increase.
Statistically 7 Razorbacks w/Lascannon and Twin Plasma would not kill the unit....
Heavy Bolter: 9 TB can statistically take 102 shots and have 1 bike left, 9 TB & vanes takes 136 shots and have 1 bike left, 9 TB & loom takes 102 HB shots and have 1 bike left.
Shieldvanes give 33% durability for 9% price increase.
22 Razorbacks w/Twin Heavy Bolter would statistically not kill the unit!
306 Stormbolter shots would still leave 1 left from 9 TB with vanes and without vanes its "only" 204 Stormbolter shots.
Shieldvanes give 50% Durability for 9% price increase.
So more than 306 Space Marines with Boltgun outside 12" are needed to prevent TB from getting RP...
In comparison:
306 Space Marines with Boltgun outside 12" would kill 51 Warriors or 34 Immortals, regardless of whether there is a Cryptek with them (5++).
136 Heavy Bolter shots would kill 41 Warrior and 31 Immortals, regardless of whether there is a Cryptek with them (5++).
36 lascannons shots kill 20 Warriors or 17 Immortals and 13 Immortals or Warriors with Cryptek (5++).
EnTyme wrote: A note on Warscythe Lychguard: They were pretty solid in Killteam-style small skirmish games in 7th edition, and with Killteam getting an update soon, you may want to build them for that if your group plays.
If you're still required to field units in their entirety instead of just being able to stick individual guys on the table I highly doubt you'll be seeing many Lychguard in Killteam lists.
We always house ruled that you built Killteams per model. The game works a lot better that way. I may have forgotten that it was a houserule, though.
Alright, good to know the Stalker is at least somewhat useful. Final question and then I'll stop plaguing you all with my noob questions: is the Nightbringer C'tan worth taking at all yet? He's such an epic model I want to use him haha
Is the 17 supposed to be in parenthesis or what does it mean?
17pts is how much they cost each with their guns added in to their base 8pts I'm pretty sure. Weird they put it in their profile if that's the case
Correct. 8 pts base for Immortal, and given they HAVE to take a gun, and given that each gun option is 9 pts, they are, effectively, 17 PPM.
(and if an immortal is 8 pts naked, with better leadership and RP, it makes the mind wonder what a basic MEQSM ought to actually be..unless your telling me +1 move and a boltgun is 5 pts.)
Been messing around with a "canoptek harvest" style list. I'm aiming for it to be semi-competitive while maintaining as much of the "canoptek" theme as possible. Here is what I've got so far...
I like that its a really fast force, and with Novokh those canoptek units are hitting pretty hard, even the scarabs. Still got a full battalion for objective secure and much needed CP. I'm torn on who to make my Warlord. On one hand, I can make the cryptek my warlord and go with immortal pride for even more psychic denial and LD protection for the warriors/immortals. Or, I can make the Destroyer Lord my warlord, allowing him to boost the canoptek units in CC with either the novokh warlord trait (6s generate an additional hit roll in cc) or go with Implacable Conqueror to better ensure successful charges... Also torn on relics, I'm currently going with Veil of Darkness on the cryptek for late game objectives or to pressure with the warrior squad. However, I could also take nanoscarab casket on my D-lord, either in addition (-1CP) or instead of the veil.... What do you all think?
Tiberius501 wrote: Alright, good to know the Stalker is at least somewhat useful. Final question and then I'll stop plaguing you all with my noob questions: is the Nightbringer C'tan worth taking at all yet? He's such an epic model I want to use him haha
Just to give a contrasting view point on the Triarch Stalker, note that with the point cost reduction of DDAs to 193, the Stalker is no longer points efficient to run instead. They offer an 11% increase in effectiveness with the re-roll ones, and have only 2:3.5 the number of AT shots, for over 75% of the cost of a DDA. (During Index Days, when a DDA’s average number of shots was only 2 (on 1d3), and costed over 210 points, the Stalker was arguably more efficient on targets within 48”. This all changed when DDAs became 1d6 shots instead of 1d3.)
It’s a shame, because it is my number one favorite Necron vehicle sculpt, and I have run one in nearly all of my lists since 7th edition.
Nightbringer is worth it but you need a screening unit that can run up with it.
Tiberius501 wrote: Alright, good to know the Stalker is at least somewhat useful. Final question and then I'll stop plaguing you all with my noob questions: is the Nightbringer C'tan worth taking at all yet? He's such an epic model I want to use him haha
Just to give a contrasting view point on the Triarch Stalker, note that with the point cost reduction of DDAs to 193, the Stalker is no longer points efficient to run instead. They offer an 11% increase in effectiveness with the re-roll ones, and have only 2:3.5 the number of AT shots, for over 75% of the cost of a DDA. (During Index Days, when a DDA’s average number of shots was only 2 (on 1d3), and costed over 210 points, the Stalker was arguably more efficient on targets within 48”. This all changed when DDAs became 1d6 shots instead of 1d3.)
It’s a shame, because it is my number one favorite Necron vehicle sculpt, and I have run one in nearly all of my lists since 7th edition.
Nightbringer is worth it but you need a screening unit that can run up with it.
Would you happen to know the keywords for the Triarch Stalker?
Tiberius501 wrote: Alright, good to know the Stalker is at least somewhat useful. Final question and then I'll stop plaguing you all with my noob questions: is the Nightbringer C'tan worth taking at all yet? He's such an epic model I want to use him haha
Just to give a contrasting view point on the Triarch Stalker, note that with the point cost reduction of DDAs to 193, the Stalker is no longer points efficient to run instead. They offer an 11% increase in effectiveness with the re-roll ones, and have only 2:3.5 the number of AT shots, for over 75% of the cost of a DDA. (During Index Days, when a DDA’s average number of shots was only 2 (on 1d3), and costed over 210 points, the Stalker was arguably more efficient on targets within 48”. This all changed when DDAs became 1d6 shots instead of 1d3.)
It’s a shame, because it is my number one favorite Necron vehicle sculpt, and I have run one in nearly all of my lists since 7th edition.
Nightbringer is worth it but you need a screening unit that can run up with it.
Yeah the Triarch Stalker is so beautifully creepy but eligant at the same time, love it.
And awesome! I'll just run him up with a unit of scarabs. Seems fitting given his base covered in scarabs and all
Tiberius501 wrote: Alright, good to know the Stalker is at least somewhat useful. Final question and then I'll stop plaguing you all with my noob questions: is the Nightbringer C'tan worth taking at all yet? He's such an epic model I want to use him haha
I think the Nightbringer is great. He has more potential damage than the Deceiver between his better attacks and his shooting attack, and he's pretty good at popping heavy targets if he can reach them. He's also a smidge cheaper than the others, so that helps too. The main reason I don't think you'll take him over the others is that the Deceiver redeploy is very useful for nearly everything in the army, and that the T-C'tan has the absolutely insane Personalities (double powers and 3++ are the main ones that I think are fairly crazy). The Nightbringer is the better beatstick... but utility is occasionally (read: usually) better than just damage).
Rocmistro wrote: So that I don't need to read all 56 pages, does anyone go into greater detail at any point about the "grades" each unit type gets, and why?
Oh, right, codex is out.
Guess we better finalize the grading.
(can probably wait to see what everyone's updated consensus is once people get some games in and can determine for themselves what's what)
I should get a fairly competitive game or two in tonight and will report back. I'm mostly convinced we have similar issues to before, but we'll see how much the buffs change.
ScarletRose wrote: So any chance I could get some advice on assembling Forgebane? Last I played was 3rd ed so these newfangled plastic Necrons are giving me too many options.
I managed to get a second Necron half so I can make 10 man units of Immortals and Lychguard.
I was thinking gauss immortals, warscythe lychguard and particle casters on the wraiths. That way I can use them for a variety of dynasties.
Wraiths are already really expensive, I plan on building mine bare with no upgrades.
As for lychguard, my question is do you plan on playing for fun, semi competitive, or competitive?
Lychguard are not that good, I mean they are good but their lack of speed makes them not that good, most things that they would want to be getting into it with can stay outside their range. I plan on making mine into custom deathmarks, just use the immortal bodies and the left over deathmarks heads and guns from the immortal spruce.
Honestly I'm playing for fun, this is mostly a painting and modeling project for me but I'd like it to be at least a useable army.
I had considered different options for the lychguard - giving them the tesla guns to make some converted immortals, or going 5 warscythe and 5 sword and board since they'd be more or bodyguard work, but in the end I figured larger units generally work better.
Other people have run the math on tesla vs. gauss for the Immortals - largely, I think it comes down to what Dynasty you want to run, as well as what you expect to come up against. Tesla weapons are great fun against hordes, but the extra AP on the gauss has come in handy for me against Space Marines.
I went with gauss because I'm mainly planning to use Sautekh, so tesla already being assault weapons wouldn't really benefit.
Glad the Nightbringer is sweet. I'm thinking of going with the Time's Arrow power for possible small hero assassination and the Cosmic Fire ability for when he's up close to do some nice dmg in their lines
Defintely a Noobie but I've put together a roughly 2k list that's built around Immortals as my core Troops, any recommended changes?
BATTALION:
DYNASTY: Mephrit
-Lord with Scythe and Orb
-Cryptek with Cloak
-x30 Immortals (2 with Tesla 1 with Gauss)
-x2 Stalkers with Particle Shredders
-x9 Wraiths
-x2 Nightshroud Bommers
TACTICS:
Wraiths screen my army pushing up the field as the "you have to shoot me" target while Phalanxes push up behind. Stalkers prioritise Armour and Heavy Infantry while Bombers target priority big threats with bombs and help with anti armour as their primary role.
Tiberius501 wrote: Alright, good to know the Stalker is at least somewhat useful. Final question and then I'll stop plaguing you all with my noob questions: is the Nightbringer C'tan worth taking at all yet? He's such an epic model I want to use him haha
I think the Nightbringer is great. He has more potential damage than the Deceiver between his better attacks and his shooting attack, and he's pretty good at popping heavy targets if he can reach them. He's also a smidge cheaper than the others, so that helps too. The main reason I don't think you'll take him over the others is that the Deceiver redeploy is very useful for nearly everything in the army, and that the T-C'tan has the absolutely insane Personalities (double powers and 3++ are the main ones that I think are fairly crazy). The Nightbringer is the better beatstick... but utility is occasionally (read: usually) better than just damage).
Nightbringer is my favorite. He perfect completes silver tide style with great: to hit roll, to wound roll and ap. With pts reduction and better C'tan power he is auto include in my lists.
Only disadvantages is lack of wt and dynasty.
gmaleron wrote: Defintely a Noobie but I've put together a roughly 2k list that's built around Immortals as my core Troops, any recommended changes?
BATTALION:
DYNASTY: Mephrit
-Lord with Scythe and Orb
-Cryptek with Cloak
-x30 Immortals (2 with Tesla 1 with Gauss)
-x2 Stalkers with Particle Shredders
-x9 Wraiths
-x2 Nightshroud Bommers
TACTICS:
Wraiths screen my army pushing up the field as the "you have to shoot me" target while Phalanxes push up behind. Stalkers prioritise Armour and Heavy Infantry while Bombers target priority big threats with bombs and help with anti armour as their primary role.
Are those wraiths broken down into squads of 3? I think max unit size is 9 .
I'm a fan of this list with the exception of the Tomb Stalkers and the Nightshroud Bombers. In my opinion, the stalkers are outclasses by both the sentinals and the DDA. As far as the nightshroud goes, I think you'd be much better off with, well, almost anything else here. They are extremely overpriced and aren't very good imo. Maybe swap the bombers for some DDAs? Otherwise I really like the list!
Hey man, I just started the thing, anyone can actually post anything they want. I only ask people to spoiler things out of consideration for the people who are here just to check tactics information.
(I thought when you said battle report that it was going to be a written version, so would have been really long. If it's a video, you probably could have just posted the link without a spoiler. Sorry for the confusion)
Are those wraiths broken down into squads of 3? I think max unit size is 9 .
I'm a fan of this list with the exception of the Tomb Stalkers and the Nightshroud Bombers. In my opinion, the stalkers are outclasses by both the sentinals and the DDA. As far as the nightshroud goes, I think you'd be much better off with, well, almost anything else here. They are extremely overpriced and aren't very good imo. Maybe swap the bombers for some DDAs? Otherwise I really like the list!
I was running them as 1 giant squad of 9 to limit the number of drops and they are the Triarch Stalkers (not the tomb ones) and what is DDA?
punisher357 wrote:Does anyone know what the keywords are for the Triarch Stalker?
Necrons, Vehicle, Triarch Stalker. So it can't be buffed from any of the Dynastic codes or warlord abilities.
skoffs wrote:
Rocmistro wrote: So that I don't need to read all 56 pages, does anyone go into greater detail at any point about the "grades" each unit type gets, and why?
Oh, right, codex is out.
Guess we better finalize the grading.
(can probably wait to see what everyone's updated consensus is once people get some games in and can determine for themselves what's what)
Might also take away the note that point values may differ in the final version. As far as I can tell, everything is identical to the beta codex - but I've only thoroughly checked the point values.
Are those wraiths broken down into squads of 3? I think max unit size is 9 .
I'm a fan of this list with the exception of the Tomb Stalkers and the Nightshroud Bombers. In my opinion, the stalkers are outclasses by both the sentinals and the DDA. As far as the nightshroud goes, I think you'd be much better off with, well, almost anything else here. They are extremely overpriced and aren't very good imo. Maybe swap the bombers for some DDAs? Otherwise I really like the list!
I was running them as 1 giant squad of 9 to limit the number of drops and they are the Triarch Stalkers (not the tomb ones) and what is DDA?
Wraiths are max squad size of 6
DDA refers to DoomsDay Ark.
Are those wraiths broken down into squads of 3? I think max unit size is 9 .
I'm a fan of this list with the exception of the Tomb Stalkers and the Nightshroud Bombers. In my opinion, the stalkers are outclasses by both the sentinals and the DDA. As far as the nightshroud goes, I think you'd be much better off with, well, almost anything else here. They are extremely overpriced and aren't very good imo. Maybe swap the bombers for some DDAs? Otherwise I really like the list!
I was running them as 1 giant squad of 9 to limit the number of drops and they are the Triarch Stalkers (not the tomb ones) and what is DDA?
Wraiths are max squad size of 6
DDA refers to DoomsDay Ark.
Ahh okay Battlescribe said 9 ill fix it (overseas don't have book) and is there any particular way to run Wraiths?
Tiberius501 wrote: Alright, good to know the Stalker is at least somewhat useful. Final question and then I'll stop plaguing you all with my noob questions: is the Nightbringer C'tan worth taking at all yet? He's such an epic model I want to use him haha
Just to give a contrasting view point on the Triarch Stalker, note that with the point cost reduction of DDAs to 193, the Stalker is no longer points efficient to run instead. They offer an 11% increase in effectiveness with the re-roll ones, and have only 2:3.5 the number of AT shots, for over 75% of the cost of a DDA. (During Index Days, when a DDA’s average number of shots was only 2 (on 1d3), and costed over 210 points, the Stalker was arguably more efficient on targets within 48”. This all changed when DDAs became 1d6 shots instead of 1d3.)
It’s a shame, because it is my number one favorite Necron vehicle sculpt, and I have run one in nearly all of my lists since 7th edition.
Nightbringer is worth it but you need a screening unit that can run up with it.
I overall agree with the assessment here for the Triarch Stalker. I have two notes though to consider:
1. It's in a different slot. Once you filled your heavy support slots, you can put one of these guys in and:
2. It doesn't JUST boost the shooting for DDAs. That's the preferred target of course, but it helps out other dudes as well.
Got this army in trade and was looking to get into crons was wondering what competitive list can I make with these items
2x Start collecting Necrons (New version NiB)
I've been a busy writing something up. It's a guide on the Power of the C'tan.
Let me know what you think:
Guide to C'tan Powers
Spoiler:
Guide to C'tan Powers; Wrath of the Star Gods
Since the release of the Necron codex, the C'tan Shards have been given new reality-warping powers at their disposal.
This guide will help you select the best powers for each opponent, as well as information on how to best use the selected powers.
First, let's re-cap what each power exactly does and rank them in order of usefulness and power. The powers will be ranked for both regular C'tan Shards and the Tesseract Vault. Feel free to disagree and let me know why!
Anti-Matter Meteor
Pick the closest visible enemy unit. 24". Roll a single D6, on a 2+ that target suffers D3 mortal wounds. On a roll of a 6+, the target suffers D6 mortal wounds.
The Vault does D6 mortal wounds on a roll of a 5+.
Regular: A
Vault: B
The bread&butter of the C'tan powers, this power is ranked A because of its reliability. Other powers require the enemy to be at a specific range or have a specific amount of models/wounds to be effective. Meteor will always do it's job no matter what enemy.
There is one catch though; the fact that it always hits the closest enemy model. This means it could be wasted on enemy chaff units. Be sure to position your C'tan properly so the Meteor hits something worthwhile!
As for Meteor on the Vault, it maintains pretty much the same function, with a somewhat higher chance of getting D6 mortal wounds. But you pick Meteor for its reliability, not because you are feeling lucky for a 5+ roll. (unless you ARE feelin' lucky....)
Time's Arrow Pick an enemy unit within 18" and visible to the C'tan. If you roll higher than the maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT, a single model is slain. The Vault requires you to roll equal instead of higher to the amount of maximum wounds the unit has. A roll of a 1 always fails.
Regular: B
Vault: A
The C'tans sniping ability. While it's range is on the short-side, it can be extremely useful to pick off low-wound characters to disrupt your opponent strategy. However, the fact that you need to roll HIGHER than the maximum wounds of the unit makes it quite unreliable on anything with more than three wounds.
Also note that it's the highest maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT. That there darn Dark Reaper squad with a 2 wound Exarch? It will require a 3+ for Time's Arrow to work.
The Vault significantly increases the chance of the Arrow to succeed, making it an excellent power for them.
It is also a great power to pick up against powerful multi-wound units, like Custodes, Wraithguard etc.
Also note; a model is SLAIN by Time's Arrow. Not even FNP saves can be taken against this.
Sky of the Falling Stars (sky)
Select three enemy units within 18" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each unit. The Vault subtracts one from this roll. If you roll lower than the amount of models in the unit, it takes D3 mortal wounds.
A roll of a 6 always fails.
Regular: A
Vault: C
An excellent ability that let's you deal out multiple mortal wounds to multiple targets! What's not to love? As long as the unit has 6 or more models, it has 5/6th chance to do it's job. This is why I ranked it quite low on the Vault; the Vault doesn't improve the ability by that much.
There is one big catch; as the game goes on and enemy units are down to a few models per unit, this power will start to lose it's effect. The Vault will be able to dish out wounds with it for a bit longer, but it's main power is the first few turns against medium to large enemy units.
Cosmic Fire
Roll a D6 for each enemy unit that is within 9" of the C'tan. On a 4+, that unit suffer D3 mortal wounds. The Vault wounds units on a 3+.
Regular: B
Vault: A
This ability has the potential to deal the most mortal wounds out of all the powers, if you can get the C'tan close enough. This can make it somewhat situational: In my opinion, you shouldn't suicide your C'tan Shard in unless there is another dangerous unit that your opponents needs to focus, or the C'tan itself is the distraction for your other powerful units. But, keep in mind; a C'tan pretty much always wants to get close. All but the Vault are amazing in melee and, they explode on a 4+.
This ability is ranked A on the Vault not only because it greatly increases the reliability of the power, but also due to its enormous size which will let you hit a lot more enemy units with Cosmic Fire.
Seismic Assault Select a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each model in that unit; on a 6+ that unit suffers a mortal wound. The Vault deals mortal wounds on a 5+ per model instead.
Regular:C
Vault: B
The ability speaks for itself; its anti-horde. As soon as a mob of Ork boyz or Genestealers appear on the table, this ability will go up to rank A. I remember somewhere in a Necron guide that Seismic Assault will do more mortal wounds on average than Meteor if the enemy unit has 11 or more models in it. But this was before the Meteor did D6 wounds on a 6+.
Trans dimensional Thunderbolt
Pick a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan, other than a <10 wound character. Roll a D6; a on 4+ (3+ for Vault) that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Then, roll a D6 for each other enemy unit within 3" of the previously struck unit. On a 4+ that unit suffer one mortal wound.
Regular: B
Vault: C
I'm not to sure on this one. On one hand it seems like an inferior version of Meteor, but on the other hand you can freely pick your target without caring about their model size or wounds. The 'AoE' effect of it depends on how tightly packed your enemy units are and how big the unit is you are targeting. A big blob of small units or a large monster will cover a large area, thus resulting in a more targets getting hit by the AoE effect.
Alrighty, that's the basics covered. Now let's go over on when to pick each power depending on the situation.
keep in mind You pick your C'tan powers right before the first unit is deployed. That means that stuff like enemy army roster, terrain, deployment zone/type etc. can all be taken into consideration when picking the powers for your C'tan.
So, let's go over a couple of scenarios?
Can your C'tan close the distance quickly either via Deceiver's Grand Illusion, T. C'tan 12" advance or some other way?
Regular: Cosmic Fire, Sky of the Falling Stars/Meteor
Vault: Cosmic Fire, Meteor, Time's Arrow, Thunderbolt
Does your opponents army have 2-3 wound models or important 3-4 wound characters?
Next up, I wanted to talk about the order in which the Vault can best use his powers, depending on the targets he is facing.
Horde, buffed by a FNP character
Arrow -> Seismic Assault -> Thunderbolt
Time's arrow on whatever is giving the horde FNP (Ork painboy, Deathguard plague surgeon) to make sure your mortal wounds won't get saved. Then, follow up by Seismic assault and lastly Thunderbolt. You want as many models in the horde as possible for Seismic Assault, hence why you do that before Thunderbolt. And lastly, the horde probably covers quite a lot of ground (maybe it's konga-lined to protect charges) this will let Thunderbolt's AoE effect hit a lot of targets.
Primaris marine squads, Custodes etc
Sky -> Arrow -> Meteor
This is a tough one; one the one hand you want to start with Sky, since the squads still have all the models thus making it most likely to go off. However, if you only wound a model with Sky, the 'slain' effect from Arrow is wasted on a wounded model.
Lastly, let's go over the two stratagems the C'tan Shards can use.
Wrath of the C'tan, 2 CP
Use this power after a C'tan Shard has used a power. Roll a D6; the C'tan Shard immediately uses the rolled uses that power, even if he has used it before.
Oef, this is a tough one. A random power for two whole CP? I'd definitely only use this if you have a Vault. And even then, you have to make sure as many of the 'optimal' conditions for each power are available. So;
-Is the Vault 9" close to several enemy units?
-are there 3 enemy units with 5 or more models in there?
-Is there a unit with 11 or more models in it nearby?
-Is there a 2-4 wound model that is worthwhile nearby?
Have by some miracle all these conditions been met? Sure, go ahead and use this stratagem.....
Cosmic Powers
Use this stratagem at the start of your turn. Select a C'tan Shard; replace one of his powers with a new C'tan power for the rest of the game.
Interesting. This gives us a way to be flexible with the situational powers. For instance, if there are no more enemy 5-6 model infantry units left, you might want to replace Sky. Or have the enemy hordes been dealt with? Perhaps you can replace Seismic Assault. I would however only recommend this on Vaults or T. C'tan with 2 powers. Regular C'tan usually have either Meteor or Thunderbolt and can only cast one power anyway.
There is also another use. Say you didn't pick Cosmic Fire, but for some reason your C'tan got close enough to your opponents army and it would have been perfect if you gave him Cosmic Fire at the start! Well now you can give that to him. Just keep in mind that it's at the START of your turn. If you have to rely on a high advance roll in order to get into a nice position for Cosmic Fire, it might not work out as you have hoped!
Rewriting the top post. Going to add this to it, if you don't mind.
For the unit grading, there were a couple of posters who gave reasoning write ups for the grade each unit was given.
Anyone able to find those posts?
It's 1919 points, which leaves me more points for Scarabs I'm thinking. The basic plan would be to spread the Scarabs out evenly and leave the Mephrit Lord in the back as a blocker to keep the Heavy Destroyers safe, while the Wraiths advance and charge ASAP (which is why I cannot decide if I make them more killy or faster), and I drop Deathmarks on demand as cock blockers.
My issue is I feel like I'm still lacking killing power, but it's still a rough draft for now. Criticism is definitely gonna be necessary haha!
skoffs wrote: Hey man, I just started the thing, anyone can actually post anything they want. I only ask people to spoiler things out of consideration for the people who are here just to check tactics information.
(I thought when you said battle report that it was going to be a written version, so would have been really long. If it's a video, you probably could have just posted the link without a spoiler. Sorry for the confusion)
Awesome, thanks a mill Skoffs!
Now to talk tactics. Anyone here try the D.lord yet? I over looked him at 1st but had a little read in the codex and actually realised he is quite the beat stick.
If it is your Warlord and in a Novokh detachment with the Novokh Warlord trait and Nanoscarabs Relic it becomes a machine of Death and Resistance.
With a load out of; Phylactery (Nanoscarabs Relic), Warscythe, Novokh W.trait it can produce 4-7 S7 -4 D2 attacks. Or, it can actually double those attacks if you use the Novokh Stratagem, it has 2 ways of coming back to life (Nanoscarabs and staragem) meaning it is a great HQ for CC and for being your Warlord as you have 2 chances of denying "slay the Warlord" and if you draw the objective card that let's you gain 1 VP if your selected HQ is still alive at the end of the game.
Now, because Novokh is situational, i wont be including it in my following statement. Tactics are in a spoiler because I wrote more than expected.
Spoiler:
I think a <Dynasty> D.Lord w/ 6 Nihilakh Wraiths and/or Cloaktek will be s pretty good CC force. 1st you get 4 S7 -4 D2 attacks, you get 18 S6 -2 D2 attacks, you get speed and good saves (3+ invul and 4+ invul). Also, the reason i say Nihilakh Wraiths is because if you move this CC force onto an objective and keep moving objective to objective before you start your attack you get the chance to make the Wraiths 2++ invul and have 24 attacks instead of 18. This also helps the D.Lord out as your opponent has to deal with the Wraiths before the D.lord can be selected in the shooting phase.
Plus, if your bring a Cloaktek make sure it had the VoD and is the same dynasty as your D.lord. when your wraiths go down to 1-3 models use the cloaktek to RP the Wraiths to try and get as much CC as possible before the unit is completely wiped. Also, don't pop the VoD until your D Lord has died at least once and/or your opponent has a way of killing the D.lord. with this tactic. You can carelessly put your D.lord and Wraiths into CC action. Have them take and do damage and when your D.lord is about to die or in a bad situation just VoD it back to your side on the table and piss off your opponent for making them focus down on your D.lord even though they get nothing out of it.
With a CC combo of D.Lord + Wraiths I think it should also be a good bullet sponge meaning your other units will be safe like your DDAs, Immortals, Scarabs etc. Your opponent either focuses on your main army leaving your CC unit at full strength under estimating their power or they fully focus on the CC units because they know of the threat and leaves your other models free to do as you wish.
I actually think Ghetto Celestine is gonna be a sleeper hit because the Destroyer Lord is quick, will tie something up, and then just comes back to do the same thing again. Not many points of an investment either!
I've been a busy writing something up. It's a guide on the Power of the C'tan.
Let me know what you think:
Guide to C'tan Powers
Spoiler:
Guide to C'tan Powers; Wrath of the Star Gods
Since the release of the Necron codex, the C'tan Shards have been given new reality-warping powers at their disposal.
This guide will help you select the best powers for each opponent, as well as information on how to best use the selected powers.
First, let's re-cap what each power exactly does and rank them in order of usefulness and power. The powers will be ranked for both regular C'tan Shards and the Tesseract Vault. Feel free to disagree and let me know why!
Anti-Matter Meteor
Pick the closest visible enemy unit. 24". Roll a single D6, on a 2+ that target suffers D3 mortal wounds. On a roll of a 6+, the target suffers D6 mortal wounds.
The Vault does D6 mortal wounds on a roll of a 5+.
Regular: A
Vault: B
The bread&butter of the C'tan powers, this power is ranked A because of its reliability. Other powers require the enemy to be at a specific range or have a specific amount of models/wounds to be effective. Meteor will always do it's job no matter what enemy.
There is one catch though; the fact that it always hits the closest enemy model. This means it could be wasted on enemy chaff units. Be sure to position your C'tan properly so the Meteor hits something worthwhile!
As for Meteor on the Vault, it maintains pretty much the same function, with a somewhat higher chance of getting D6 mortal wounds. But you pick Meteor for its reliability, not because you are feeling lucky for a 5+ roll. (unless you ARE feelin' lucky....)
Time's Arrow Pick an enemy unit within 18" and visible to the C'tan. If you roll higher than the maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT, a single model is slain. The Vault requires you to roll equal instead of higher to the amount of maximum wounds the unit has. A roll of a 1 always fails.
Regular: B
Vault: A
The C'tans sniping ability. While it's range is on the short-side, it can be extremely useful to pick off low-wound characters to disrupt your opponent strategy. However, the fact that you need to roll HIGHER than the maximum wounds of the unit makes it quite unreliable on anything with more than three wounds.
Also note that it's the highest maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT. That there darn Dark Reaper squad with a 2 wound Exarch? It will require a 3+ for Time's Arrow to work.
The Vault significantly increases the chance of the Arrow to succeed, making it an excellent power for them.
It is also a great power to pick up against powerful multi-wound units, like Custodes, Wraithguard etc.
Also note; a model is SLAIN by Time's Arrow. Not even FNP saves can be taken against this.
Sky of the Falling Stars (sky)
Select three enemy units within 18" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each unit. The Vault subtracts one from this roll. If you roll lower than the amount of models in the unit, it takes D3 mortal wounds.
A roll of a 6 always fails.
Regular: A
Vault: C
An excellent ability that let's you deal out multiple mortal wounds to multiple targets! What's not to love? As long as the unit has 6 or more models, it has 5/6th chance to do it's job. This is why I ranked it quite low on the Vault; the Vault doesn't improve the ability by that much.
There is one big catch; as the game goes on and enemy units are down to a few models per unit, this power will start to lose it's effect. The Vault will be able to dish out wounds with it for a bit longer, but it's main power is the first few turns against medium to large enemy units.
Cosmic Fire
Roll a D6 for each enemy unit that is within 9" of the C'tan. On a 4+, that unit suffer D3 mortal wounds. The Vault wounds units on a 3+.
Regular: B
Vault: A
This ability has the potential to deal the most mortal wounds out of all the powers, if you can get the C'tan close enough. This can make it somewhat situational: In my opinion, you shouldn't suicide your C'tan Shard in unless there is another dangerous unit that your opponents needs to focus, or the C'tan itself is the distraction for your other powerful units. But, keep in mind; a C'tan pretty much always wants to get close. All but the Vault are amazing in melee and, they explode on a 4+.
This ability is ranked A on the Vault not only because it greatly increases the reliability of the power, but also due to its enormous size which will let you hit a lot more enemy units with Cosmic Fire.
Seismic Assault Select a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each model in that unit; on a 6+ that unit suffers a mortal wound. The Vault deals mortal wounds on a 5+ per model instead.
Regular:C
Vault: B
The ability speaks for itself; its anti-horde. As soon as a mob of Ork boyz or Genestealers appear on the table, this ability will go up to rank A. I remember somewhere in a Necron guide that Seismic Assault will do more mortal wounds on average than Meteor if the enemy unit has 11 or more models in it. But this was before the Meteor did D6 wounds on a 6+.
Trans dimensional Thunderbolt
Pick a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan, other than a <10 wound character. Roll a D6; a on 4+ (3+ for Vault) that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Then, roll a D6 for each other enemy unit within 3" of the previously struck unit. On a 4+ that unit suffer one mortal wound.
Regular: B
Vault: C
I'm not to sure on this one. On one hand it seems like an inferior version of Meteor, but on the other hand you can freely pick your target without caring about their model size or wounds. The 'AoE' effect of it depends on how tightly packed your enemy units are and how big the unit is you are targeting. A big blob of small units or a large monster will cover a large area, thus resulting in a more targets getting hit by the AoE effect.
Alrighty, that's the basics covered. Now let's go over on when to pick each power depending on the situation.
keep in mind You pick your C'tan powers right before the first unit is deployed. That means that stuff like enemy army roster, terrain, deployment zone/type etc. can all be taken into consideration when picking the powers for your C'tan.
So, let's go over a couple of scenarios?
Can your C'tan close the distance quickly either via Deceiver's Grand Illusion, T. C'tan 12" advance or some other way?
Regular: Cosmic Fire, Sky of the Falling Stars/Meteor
Vault: Cosmic Fire, Meteor, Time's Arrow, Thunderbolt
Does your opponents army have 2-3 wound models or important 3-4 wound characters?
Next up, I wanted to talk about the order in which the Vault can best use his powers, depending on the targets he is facing.
Horde, buffed by a FNP character
Arrow -> Seismic Assault -> Thunderbolt
Time's arrow on whatever is giving the horde FNP (Ork painboy, Deathguard plague surgeon) to make sure your mortal wounds won't get saved. Then, follow up by Seismic assault and lastly Thunderbolt. You want as many models in the horde as possible for Seismic Assault, hence why you do that before Thunderbolt. And lastly, the horde probably covers quite a lot of ground (maybe it's konga-lined to protect charges) this will let Thunderbolt's AoE effect hit a lot of targets.
Primaris marine squads, Custodes etc
Sky -> Arrow -> Meteor
This is a tough one; one the one hand you want to start with Sky, since the squads still have all the models thus making it most likely to go off. However, if you only wound a model with Sky, the 'slain' effect from Arrow is wasted on a wounded model.
Lastly, let's go over the two stratagems the C'tan Shards can use.
Wrath of the C'tan, 2 CP
Use this power after a C'tan Shard has used a power. Roll a D6; the C'tan Shard immediately uses the rolled uses that power, even if he has used it before.
Oef, this is a tough one. A random power for two whole CP? I'd definitely only use this if you have a Vault. And even then, you have to make sure as many of the 'optimal' conditions for each power are available. So;
-Is the Vault 9" close to several enemy units?
-are there 3 enemy units with 5 or more models in there?
-Is there a unit with 11 or more models in it nearby?
-Is there a 2-4 wound model that is worthwhile nearby?
Have by some miracle all these conditions been met? Sure, go ahead and use this stratagem.....
Cosmic Powers
Use this stratagem at the start of your turn. Select a C'tan Shard; replace one of his powers with a new C'tan power for the rest of the game.
Interesting. This gives us a way to be flexible with the situational powers. For instance, if there are no more enemy 5-6 model infantry units left, you might want to replace Sky. Or have the enemy hordes been dealt with? Perhaps you can replace Seismic Assault. I would however only recommend this on Vaults or T. C'tan with 2 powers. Regular C'tan usually have either Meteor or Thunderbolt and can only cast one power anyway.
There is also another use. Say you didn't pick Cosmic Fire, but for some reason your C'tan got close enough to your opponents army and it would have been perfect if you gave him Cosmic Fire at the start! Well now you can give that to him. Just keep in mind that it's at the START of your turn. If you have to rely on a high advance roll in order to get into a nice position for Cosmic Fire, it might not work out as you have hoped!
Rewriting the top post. Going to add this to it, if you don't mind.
For the unit grading, there were a couple of posters who gave reasoning write ups for the grade each unit was given.
Anyone able to find those posts?
I don't understand the grading, how are any of the powers worse for a vault to use. It has a bigger model size and gets a bonus to every power so surely they are all better on the vault
Now to talk tactics. Anyone here try the D.lord yet? I over looked him at 1st but had a little read in the codex and actually realised he is quite the beat stick.
If it is your Warlord and in a Novokh detachment with the Novokh Warlord trait and Nanoscarabs Relic it becomes a machine of Death and Resistance.
With a load out of; Phylactery (Nanoscarabs Relic), Warscythe, Novokh W.trait it can produce 4-7 S7 -4 D2 attacks. Or, it can actually double those attacks if you use the Novokh Stratagem, it has 2 ways of coming back to life (Nanoscarabs and staragem) meaning it is a great HQ for CC and for being your Warlord as you have 2 chances of denying "slay the Warlord" and if you draw the objective card that let's you gain 1 VP if your selected HQ is still alive at the end of the game.
Now, because Novokh is situational, i wont be including it in my following statement. Tactics are in a spoiler because I wrote more than expected.
Spoiler:
I think a <Dynasty> D.Lord w/ 6 Nihilakh Wraiths and/or Cloaktek will be s pretty good CC force. 1st you get 4 S7 -4 D2 attacks, you get 18 S6 -2 D2 attacks, you get speed and good saves (3+ invul and 4+ invul). Also, the reason i say Nihilakh Wraiths is because if you move this CC force onto an objective and keep moving objective to objective before you start your attack you get the chance to make the Wraiths 2++ invul and have 24 attacks instead of 18. This also helps the D.Lord out as your opponent has to deal with the Wraiths before the D.lord can be selected in the shooting phase.
Plus, if your bring a Cloaktek make sure it had the VoD and is the same dynasty as your D.lord. when your wraiths go down to 1-3 models use the cloaktek to RP the Wraiths to try and get as much CC as possible before the unit is completely wiped. Also, don't pop the VoD until your D Lord has died at least once and/or your opponent has a way of killing the D.lord. with this tactic. You can carelessly put your D.lord and Wraiths into CC action. Have them take and do damage and when your D.lord is about to die or in a bad situation just VoD it back to your side on the table and piss off your opponent for making them focus down on your D.lord even though they get nothing out of it.
With a CC combo of D.Lord + Wraiths I think it should also be a good bullet sponge meaning your other units will be safe like your DDAs, Immortals, Scarabs etc. Your opponent either focuses on your main army leaving your CC unit at full strength under estimating their power or they fully focus on the CC units because they know of the threat and leaves your other models free to do as you wish.
So your saying that by using the Reclaim lost empire strat for the 2++ and by sticking a Objective as a sort of rally point on the way? interesting, but the main issue is that you have to use it at the end of your turn and it lasts until the start of the next. So ideally it would be used on the end of T1, as you'd be hoping for a T2 charge. Also you gain the most benefit from it being a T1 move, as you gain the maximum resilience for the unit, and it acts as a charge deterent. Sadly its a shame that the rest of the dynastic code doesn't add much, "Units that didn't move or disembark can reroll every 1 to hit when shooting, even in Overwatch." means the wraiths won't get much out of it, as you both want to be charging and you probably want to be moving
I like the idea though, I think it would be great as a trap target if you were running up against a melee list; You have the army wide Nihilakh for the re-roll 1's for your shooty units that want to sit on objectives and pump out maximum damage, but while they are positioning T1, you can do what you said and push up super aggressive with the wraiths and the D.lord. Then the opponent has the choice, he either charges into your super tanky unit, which he knows will fall back and recharge, or he can ignore you and attempt to move around you, leaving you prime choice of targets T2.
Against a shooty list i feel that it might be quite a lot of an investment into a specific trick and that other codes probably work better. For example, Novokh would give you hit re-rolls which would apply in all CC situations and is probably close to the +1A from the strategem, the only thing you miss is the +1 to all saves.
I've been a busy writing something up. It's a guide on the Power of the C'tan.
Let me know what you think:
Guide to C'tan Powers
Spoiler:
Guide to C'tan Powers; Wrath of the Star Gods
Since the release of the Necron codex, the C'tan Shards have been given new reality-warping powers at their disposal.
This guide will help you select the best powers for each opponent, as well as information on how to best use the selected powers.
First, let's re-cap what each power exactly does and rank them in order of usefulness and power. The powers will be ranked for both regular C'tan Shards and the Tesseract Vault. Feel free to disagree and let me know why!
Anti-Matter Meteor
Pick the closest visible enemy unit. 24". Roll a single D6, on a 2+ that target suffers D3 mortal wounds. On a roll of a 6+, the target suffers D6 mortal wounds.
The Vault does D6 mortal wounds on a roll of a 5+.
Regular: A
Vault: B
The bread&butter of the C'tan powers, this power is ranked A because of its reliability. Other powers require the enemy to be at a specific range or have a specific amount of models/wounds to be effective. Meteor will always do it's job no matter what enemy.
There is one catch though; the fact that it always hits the closest enemy model. This means it could be wasted on enemy chaff units. Be sure to position your C'tan properly so the Meteor hits something worthwhile!
As for Meteor on the Vault, it maintains pretty much the same function, with a somewhat higher chance of getting D6 mortal wounds. But you pick Meteor for its reliability, not because you are feeling lucky for a 5+ roll. (unless you ARE feelin' lucky....)
Time's Arrow Pick an enemy unit within 18" and visible to the C'tan. If you roll higher than the maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT, a single model is slain. The Vault requires you to roll equal instead of higher to the amount of maximum wounds the unit has. A roll of a 1 always fails.
Regular: B
Vault: A
The C'tans sniping ability. While it's range is on the short-side, it can be extremely useful to pick off low-wound characters to disrupt your opponent strategy. However, the fact that you need to roll HIGHER than the maximum wounds of the unit makes it quite unreliable on anything with more than three wounds.
Also note that it's the highest maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT. That there darn Dark Reaper squad with a 2 wound Exarch? It will require a 3+ for Time's Arrow to work.
The Vault significantly increases the chance of the Arrow to succeed, making it an excellent power for them.
It is also a great power to pick up against powerful multi-wound units, like Custodes, Wraithguard etc.
Also note; a model is SLAIN by Time's Arrow. Not even FNP saves can be taken against this.
Sky of the Falling Stars (sky)
Select three enemy units within 18" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each unit. The Vault subtracts one from this roll. If you roll lower than the amount of models in the unit, it takes D3 mortal wounds.
A roll of a 6 always fails.
Regular: A
Vault: C
An excellent ability that let's you deal out multiple mortal wounds to multiple targets! What's not to love? As long as the unit has 6 or more models, it has 5/6th chance to do it's job. This is why I ranked it quite low on the Vault; the Vault doesn't improve the ability by that much.
There is one big catch; as the game goes on and enemy units are down to a few models per unit, this power will start to lose it's effect. The Vault will be able to dish out wounds with it for a bit longer, but it's main power is the first few turns against medium to large enemy units.
Cosmic Fire
Roll a D6 for each enemy unit that is within 9" of the C'tan. On a 4+, that unit suffer D3 mortal wounds. The Vault wounds units on a 3+.
Regular: B
Vault: A
This ability has the potential to deal the most mortal wounds out of all the powers, if you can get the C'tan close enough. This can make it somewhat situational: In my opinion, you shouldn't suicide your C'tan Shard in unless there is another dangerous unit that your opponents needs to focus, or the C'tan itself is the distraction for your other powerful units. But, keep in mind; a C'tan pretty much always wants to get close. All but the Vault are amazing in melee and, they explode on a 4+.
This ability is ranked A on the Vault not only because it greatly increases the reliability of the power, but also due to its enormous size which will let you hit a lot more enemy units with Cosmic Fire.
Seismic Assault Select a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each model in that unit; on a 6+ that unit suffers a mortal wound. The Vault deals mortal wounds on a 5+ per model instead.
Regular:C
Vault: B
The ability speaks for itself; its anti-horde. As soon as a mob of Ork boyz or Genestealers appear on the table, this ability will go up to rank A. I remember somewhere in a Necron guide that Seismic Assault will do more mortal wounds on average than Meteor if the enemy unit has 11 or more models in it. But this was before the Meteor did D6 wounds on a 6+.
Trans dimensional Thunderbolt
Pick a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan, other than a <10 wound character. Roll a D6; a on 4+ (3+ for Vault) that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Then, roll a D6 for each other enemy unit within 3" of the previously struck unit. On a 4+ that unit suffer one mortal wound.
Regular: B
Vault: C
I'm not to sure on this one. On one hand it seems like an inferior version of Meteor, but on the other hand you can freely pick your target without caring about their model size or wounds. The 'AoE' effect of it depends on how tightly packed your enemy units are and how big the unit is you are targeting. A big blob of small units or a large monster will cover a large area, thus resulting in a more targets getting hit by the AoE effect.
Alrighty, that's the basics covered. Now let's go over on when to pick each power depending on the situation.
keep in mind You pick your C'tan powers right before the first unit is deployed. That means that stuff like enemy army roster, terrain, deployment zone/type etc. can all be taken into consideration when picking the powers for your C'tan.
So, let's go over a couple of scenarios?
Can your C'tan close the distance quickly either via Deceiver's Grand Illusion, T. C'tan 12" advance or some other way?
Regular: Cosmic Fire, Sky of the Falling Stars/Meteor
Vault: Cosmic Fire, Meteor, Time's Arrow, Thunderbolt
Does your opponents army have 2-3 wound models or important 3-4 wound characters?
Next up, I wanted to talk about the order in which the Vault can best use his powers, depending on the targets he is facing.
Horde, buffed by a FNP character
Arrow -> Seismic Assault -> Thunderbolt
Time's arrow on whatever is giving the horde FNP (Ork painboy, Deathguard plague surgeon) to make sure your mortal wounds won't get saved. Then, follow up by Seismic assault and lastly Thunderbolt. You want as many models in the horde as possible for Seismic Assault, hence why you do that before Thunderbolt. And lastly, the horde probably covers quite a lot of ground (maybe it's konga-lined to protect charges) this will let Thunderbolt's AoE effect hit a lot of targets.
Primaris marine squads, Custodes etc
Sky -> Arrow -> Meteor
This is a tough one; one the one hand you want to start with Sky, since the squads still have all the models thus making it most likely to go off. However, if you only wound a model with Sky, the 'slain' effect from Arrow is wasted on a wounded model.
Lastly, let's go over the two stratagems the C'tan Shards can use.
Wrath of the C'tan, 2 CP
Use this power after a C'tan Shard has used a power. Roll a D6; the C'tan Shard immediately uses the rolled uses that power, even if he has used it before.
Oef, this is a tough one. A random power for two whole CP? I'd definitely only use this if you have a Vault. And even then, you have to make sure as many of the 'optimal' conditions for each power are available. So;
-Is the Vault 9" close to several enemy units?
-are there 3 enemy units with 5 or more models in there?
-Is there a unit with 11 or more models in it nearby?
-Is there a 2-4 wound model that is worthwhile nearby?
Have by some miracle all these conditions been met? Sure, go ahead and use this stratagem.....
Cosmic Powers
Use this stratagem at the start of your turn. Select a C'tan Shard; replace one of his powers with a new C'tan power for the rest of the game.
Interesting. This gives us a way to be flexible with the situational powers. For instance, if there are no more enemy 5-6 model infantry units left, you might want to replace Sky. Or have the enemy hordes been dealt with? Perhaps you can replace Seismic Assault. I would however only recommend this on Vaults or T. C'tan with 2 powers. Regular C'tan usually have either Meteor or Thunderbolt and can only cast one power anyway.
There is also another use. Say you didn't pick Cosmic Fire, but for some reason your C'tan got close enough to your opponents army and it would have been perfect if you gave him Cosmic Fire at the start! Well now you can give that to him. Just keep in mind that it's at the START of your turn. If you have to rely on a high advance roll in order to get into a nice position for Cosmic Fire, it might not work out as you have hoped!
Rewriting the top post. Going to add this to it, if you don't mind.
For the unit grading, there were a couple of posters who gave reasoning write ups for the grade each unit was given.
Anyone able to find those posts?
I don't understand the grading, how are any of the powers worse for a vault to use. It has a bigger model size and gets a bonus to every power so surely they are all better on the vault
I would imagine the gradings are separate, for each of the vault and the C'tan. Theres no reason to compare them against each other, only with themselves. If your saying but then the vault should always be better simply from easier rolls then I'm not sure. Maybe to do with what you would want the vault doing? not sure
EDIT: I would probably assume that with some of the "closest models" rule, the vault could be a pain trying to position correctly, whereas with the C'tan its much easier. So the sniping abilities for characters is easier to achieve on the C'tan and the More AoE abilities are more favourable to the Vault?
I think the grading is based on usefulness and how it helps the C'tan out. The worse grading just states that those powers should be used by a C'tan if your using both a Vault and C'tan. if I was bringing both I would at least want my C'tan shard to have some firepower and if the Vault is already holding 4 of the best powers then your C'tan is going to under preform. So, for example. I would kit my Vault with Times Arrow, cosmic fire, seismic assault and trans Thunderbolt. I would then give my C'tan shard (let's say Decivier) Antimatter meteor and falling stars. That way both the Vault and C'Tan have good powers and can make the most out of what they have and how they benefit the power.
I've been a busy writing something up. It's a guide on the Power of the C'tan.
Let me know what you think:
Guide to C'tan Powers
Spoiler:
Guide to C'tan Powers; Wrath of the Star Gods
Since the release of the Necron codex, the C'tan Shards have been given new reality-warping powers at their disposal.
This guide will help you select the best powers for each opponent, as well as information on how to best use the selected powers.
First, let's re-cap what each power exactly does and rank them in order of usefulness and power. The powers will be ranked for both regular C'tan Shards and the Tesseract Vault. Feel free to disagree and let me know why!
Anti-Matter Meteor
Pick the closest visible enemy unit. 24". Roll a single D6, on a 2+ that target suffers D3 mortal wounds. On a roll of a 6+, the target suffers D6 mortal wounds.
The Vault does D6 mortal wounds on a roll of a 5+.
Regular: A
Vault: B
The bread&butter of the C'tan powers, this power is ranked A because of its reliability. Other powers require the enemy to be at a specific range or have a specific amount of models/wounds to be effective. Meteor will always do it's job no matter what enemy.
There is one catch though; the fact that it always hits the closest enemy model. This means it could be wasted on enemy chaff units. Be sure to position your C'tan properly so the Meteor hits something worthwhile!
As for Meteor on the Vault, it maintains pretty much the same function, with a somewhat higher chance of getting D6 mortal wounds. But you pick Meteor for its reliability, not because you are feeling lucky for a 5+ roll. (unless you ARE feelin' lucky....)
Time's Arrow Pick an enemy unit within 18" and visible to the C'tan. If you roll higher than the maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT, a single model is slain. The Vault requires you to roll equal instead of higher to the amount of maximum wounds the unit has. A roll of a 1 always fails.
Regular: B
Vault: A
The C'tans sniping ability. While it's range is on the short-side, it can be extremely useful to pick off low-wound characters to disrupt your opponent strategy. However, the fact that you need to roll HIGHER than the maximum wounds of the unit makes it quite unreliable on anything with more than three wounds.
Also note that it's the highest maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT. That there darn Dark Reaper squad with a 2 wound Exarch? It will require a 3+ for Time's Arrow to work.
The Vault significantly increases the chance of the Arrow to succeed, making it an excellent power for them.
It is also a great power to pick up against powerful multi-wound units, like Custodes, Wraithguard etc.
Also note; a model is SLAIN by Time's Arrow. Not even FNP saves can be taken against this.
Sky of the Falling Stars (sky)
Select three enemy units within 18" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each unit. The Vault subtracts one from this roll. If you roll lower than the amount of models in the unit, it takes D3 mortal wounds.
A roll of a 6 always fails.
Regular: A
Vault: C
An excellent ability that let's you deal out multiple mortal wounds to multiple targets! What's not to love? As long as the unit has 6 or more models, it has 5/6th chance to do it's job. This is why I ranked it quite low on the Vault; the Vault doesn't improve the ability by that much.
There is one big catch; as the game goes on and enemy units are down to a few models per unit, this power will start to lose it's effect. The Vault will be able to dish out wounds with it for a bit longer, but it's main power is the first few turns against medium to large enemy units.
Cosmic Fire
Roll a D6 for each enemy unit that is within 9" of the C'tan. On a 4+, that unit suffer D3 mortal wounds. The Vault wounds units on a 3+.
Regular: B
Vault: A
This ability has the potential to deal the most mortal wounds out of all the powers, if you can get the C'tan close enough. This can make it somewhat situational: In my opinion, you shouldn't suicide your C'tan Shard in unless there is another dangerous unit that your opponents needs to focus, or the C'tan itself is the distraction for your other powerful units. But, keep in mind; a C'tan pretty much always wants to get close. All but the Vault are amazing in melee and, they explode on a 4+.
This ability is ranked A on the Vault not only because it greatly increases the reliability of the power, but also due to its enormous size which will let you hit a lot more enemy units with Cosmic Fire.
Seismic Assault Select a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each model in that unit; on a 6+ that unit suffers a mortal wound. The Vault deals mortal wounds on a 5+ per model instead.
Regular:C
Vault: B
The ability speaks for itself; its anti-horde. As soon as a mob of Ork boyz or Genestealers appear on the table, this ability will go up to rank A. I remember somewhere in a Necron guide that Seismic Assault will do more mortal wounds on average than Meteor if the enemy unit has 11 or more models in it. But this was before the Meteor did D6 wounds on a 6+.
Trans dimensional Thunderbolt
Pick a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan, other than a <10 wound character. Roll a D6; a on 4+ (3+ for Vault) that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Then, roll a D6 for each other enemy unit within 3" of the previously struck unit. On a 4+ that unit suffer one mortal wound.
Regular: B
Vault: C
I'm not to sure on this one. On one hand it seems like an inferior version of Meteor, but on the other hand you can freely pick your target without caring about their model size or wounds. The 'AoE' effect of it depends on how tightly packed your enemy units are and how big the unit is you are targeting. A big blob of small units or a large monster will cover a large area, thus resulting in a more targets getting hit by the AoE effect.
Alrighty, that's the basics covered. Now let's go over on when to pick each power depending on the situation.
keep in mind You pick your C'tan powers right before the first unit is deployed. That means that stuff like enemy army roster, terrain, deployment zone/type etc. can all be taken into consideration when picking the powers for your C'tan.
So, let's go over a couple of scenarios?
Can your C'tan close the distance quickly either via Deceiver's Grand Illusion, T. C'tan 12" advance or some other way?
Regular: Cosmic Fire, Sky of the Falling Stars/Meteor
Vault: Cosmic Fire, Meteor, Time's Arrow, Thunderbolt
Does your opponents army have 2-3 wound models or important 3-4 wound characters?
Next up, I wanted to talk about the order in which the Vault can best use his powers, depending on the targets he is facing.
Horde, buffed by a FNP character
Arrow -> Seismic Assault -> Thunderbolt
Time's arrow on whatever is giving the horde FNP (Ork painboy, Deathguard plague surgeon) to make sure your mortal wounds won't get saved. Then, follow up by Seismic assault and lastly Thunderbolt. You want as many models in the horde as possible for Seismic Assault, hence why you do that before Thunderbolt. And lastly, the horde probably covers quite a lot of ground (maybe it's konga-lined to protect charges) this will let Thunderbolt's AoE effect hit a lot of targets.
Primaris marine squads, Custodes etc
Sky -> Arrow -> Meteor
This is a tough one; one the one hand you want to start with Sky, since the squads still have all the models thus making it most likely to go off. However, if you only wound a model with Sky, the 'slain' effect from Arrow is wasted on a wounded model.
Lastly, let's go over the two stratagems the C'tan Shards can use.
Wrath of the C'tan, 2 CP
Use this power after a C'tan Shard has used a power. Roll a D6; the C'tan Shard immediately uses the rolled uses that power, even if he has used it before.
Oef, this is a tough one. A random power for two whole CP? I'd definitely only use this if you have a Vault. And even then, you have to make sure as many of the 'optimal' conditions for each power are available. So;
-Is the Vault 9" close to several enemy units?
-are there 3 enemy units with 5 or more models in there?
-Is there a unit with 11 or more models in it nearby?
-Is there a 2-4 wound model that is worthwhile nearby?
Have by some miracle all these conditions been met? Sure, go ahead and use this stratagem.....
Cosmic Powers
Use this stratagem at the start of your turn. Select a C'tan Shard; replace one of his powers with a new C'tan power for the rest of the game.
Interesting. This gives us a way to be flexible with the situational powers. For instance, if there are no more enemy 5-6 model infantry units left, you might want to replace Sky. Or have the enemy hordes been dealt with? Perhaps you can replace Seismic Assault. I would however only recommend this on Vaults or T. C'tan with 2 powers. Regular C'tan usually have either Meteor or Thunderbolt and can only cast one power anyway.
There is also another use. Say you didn't pick Cosmic Fire, but for some reason your C'tan got close enough to your opponents army and it would have been perfect if you gave him Cosmic Fire at the start! Well now you can give that to him. Just keep in mind that it's at the START of your turn. If you have to rely on a high advance roll in order to get into a nice position for Cosmic Fire, it might not work out as you have hoped!
Rewriting the top post. Going to add this to it, if you don't mind.
For the unit grading, there were a couple of posters who gave reasoning write ups for the grade each unit was given.
Anyone able to find those posts?
I don't understand the grading, how are any of the powers worse for a vault to use. It has a bigger model size and gets a bonus to every power so surely they are all better on the vault
I'd caution against getting your expectations too high about the bigger size being a bonus.
Unlike the Eldar grav tanks, the Vault doesn't have a rule which lets you measure from the hull.
The improvement, at best, is from the monstrous creature base for the C'tan, to the flyer base of the Vault.
I don't understand the grading, how are any of the powers worse for a vault to use. It has a bigger model size and gets a bonus to every power so surely they are all better on the vault
The idea behind the grading was that certain powers are kind of 'wasted' on the Vault, since they practically serve the same purpose on a regula C'tan. But, if a power is ranked high on a regular, you can assume it will perform just as well on a Vault
And as for measuring from the Vault's base....if you folks really do it that way, sooooo many enemy units cannot get into melee with the Vault, since they can't get within 1" with the base.
I've finally sold my wife on the idea of starting a new army, and she loves the look of the "Egyptian Death Robots", so I get a slightly higher starting budget. If I pick up a start collecting, and the Cron half of Forgebane, is there anything else I should grab to have a decent 1k list? I have a narrative event mid-May, so I wanted to try them out on the table if possible.
I don't understand the grading, how are any of the powers worse for a vault to use. It has a bigger model size and gets a bonus to every power so surely they are all better on the vault
The idea behind the grading was that certain powers are kind of 'wasted' on the Vault, since they practically serve the same purpose on a regula C'tan. But, if a power is ranked high on a regular, you can assume it will perform just as well on a Vault
And as for measuring from the Vault's base....if you folks really do it that way, sooooo many enemy units cannot get into melee with the Vault, since they can't get within 1" with the base.
Someone at GW told me for flyers there's a rule somewhere that says you always measure from the hull, by then I argued the monoliths own special rule which says you measure from the hull... so does that mean for the doomsday ark you have to measure from it's tiny base? And what about big vehicles without a base such as landraiders.
Sorry for the questions I'm not especially experience in 8th edition
Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote: I've finally sold my wife on the idea of starting a new army, and she loves the look of the "Egyptian Death Robots", so I get a slightly higher starting budget. If I pick up a start collecting, and the Cron half of Forgebane, is there anything else I should grab to have a decent 1k list? I have a narrative event mid-May, so I wanted to try them out on the table if possible.
If you have the cash I would recommend 2 Forgebane Half's,2 New Start Collecting boxes and 1 Old Start Collecting box if you can get your hands on it. All of that will give you quite a lot of options in terms of what you can build and what lists you can make. Tomb Blades, Destroyers and C'tan are also good investments
Any thoughts on using a monolith to reserve and then deploy a unit if destroyers? They have the infantry keyword and popping a monolith and destroyer unit right where they are needed seems pretty awesome.
buddha wrote: Any thoughts on using a monolith to reserve and then deploy a unit if destroyers? They have the infantry keyword and popping a monolith and destroyer unit right where they are needed seems pretty awesome.
Depends on your play style. If your playing a BWYW game then it can work and you can use a CP to deploy them even if the mono gets destroyed.
If your playing a tactical game your better off making a Nephreak Outrider detachment and using it's Stratagem to DS the Destroyers whenever you want for 1CP.
moonsmite wrote: Or better yet, put the destroyers in nephrekh and you can just spend 1CP to deep strike them where needed
and save the monolith cost for 2 x DDA
Played against a mixed Imperium player last night. I rolled terribly and am out of practice (been playing almost entirely Sigmar and Shadespire recently), but it just was not close at all. Failing like 8/10 Wraith saves doesn't help, of course, but when he rolled his Aggressors (something like 40+ shots with rerolls and doubling when not moving?) and charged in with all 6 beatstick Characters, it just didn't feel good at all.
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
Requizen wrote: Played against a mixed Imperium player last night. I rolled terribly and am out of practice (been playing almost entirely Sigmar and Shadespire recently), but it just was not close at all. Failing like 8/10 Wraith saves doesn't help, of course, but when he rolled his Aggressors (something like 40+ shots with rerolls and doubling when not moving?) and charged in with all 6 beatstick Characters, it just didn't feel good at all.
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
Well, I've been out of the game for a few months and was wondering how Necrons were gonna favor up, since I know nothing about the imperial armies as of now. This sums it up well.
I suppose I will never play anyone outside of my close group of friends anymore. Oh well.
Requizen wrote: Played against a mixed Imperium player last night. I rolled terribly and am out of practice (been playing almost entirely Sigmar and Shadespire recently), but it just was not close at all. Failing like 8/10 Wraith saves doesn't help, of course, but when he rolled his Aggressors (something like 40+ shots with rerolls and doubling when not moving?) and charged in with all 6 beatstick Characters, it just didn't feel good at all.
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
Well, I've been out of the game for a few months and was wondering how Necrons were gonna favor up, since I know nothing about the imperial armies as of now. This sums it up well.
I suppose I will never play anyone outside of my close group of friends anymore. Oh well.
Hoping the FAQ kills some of the spam, and I'm not quitting since I think there's a good Necron list out there somewhere. But it seriously just feels like two differently balanced games.
Requizen wrote: Played against a mixed Imperium player last night. I rolled terribly and am out of practice (been playing almost entirely Sigmar and Shadespire recently), but it just was not close at all. Failing like 8/10 Wraith saves doesn't help, of course, but when he rolled his Aggressors (something like 40+ shots with rerolls and doubling when not moving?) and charged in with all 6 beatstick Characters, it just didn't feel good at all.
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
Well, I've been out of the game for a few months and was wondering how Necrons were gonna favor up, since I know nothing about the imperial armies as of now. This sums it up well.
I suppose I will never play anyone outside of my close group of friends anymore. Oh well.
Hoping the FAQ kills some of the spam, and I'm not quitting since I think there's a good Necron list out there somewhere. But it seriously just feels like two differently balanced games.
This is unfortunate. I was extremely hyped at this codex, and loved all of the changes they did. But, I was unaware at the changes a lot of other armies received. And people around here already spam dumb gak that isn't fun to play against. Therefore, if I play, it will be against my casual T'au buddies.
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
IIRC the Shield Captain on bike rerolls hits, his lance rerolls wounds only on the charge and the lance doesn't shoot - but good luck surviving that charge. If he's the warlord he can get the 5+ FNP. He's one of the best value melee units IMO but he's also 30+ points more expensive than a DLord.
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
IIRC the Shield Captain on bike rerolls hits, his lance rerolls wounds only on the charge and the lance doesn't shoot - but good luck surviving that charge. If he's the warlord he can get the 5+ FNP. He's one of the best value melee units IMO but he's also 30+ points more expensive than a DLord.
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
IIRC the Shield Captain on bike rerolls hits, his lance rerolls wounds only on the charge and the lance doesn't shoot - but good luck surviving that charge. If he's the warlord he can get the 5+ FNP. He's one of the best value melee units IMO but he's also 30+ points more expensive than a DLord.
Rerolls wound on the charge but with Jetbike he's usually in range to charge no matter what. Shooting from the Hurricane Bolters on it, which chucks out Rapid Fire 6 for 12 Bolter shots, generally enough to thin down chaff or weaken the thing he's about to charge, also rerolling to hit.
It's not really a fair comparison, but that's the state of the game.
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
IIRC the Shield Captain on bike rerolls hits, his lance rerolls wounds only on the charge and the lance doesn't shoot - but good luck surviving that charge. If he's the warlord he can get the 5+ FNP. He's one of the best value melee units IMO but he's also 30+ points more expensive than a DLord.
Only 30+ points? Still worth it.
I mean you do realize that the Biker Custodian dude is likely going to take a nerf right?
Plus not many characters have the ability to try and come back from the dead that many times.
Rerolls wound on the charge but with Jetbike he's usually in range to charge no matter what. Shooting from the Hurricane Bolters on it, which chucks out Rapid Fire 6 for 12 Bolter shots, generally enough to thin down chaff or weaken the thing he's about to charge, also rerolling to hit.
It's not really a fair comparison, but that's the state of the game.
Yeah he's one of those units you really don't want to get charged by even in his "basic" mode. Maybe with enough scarabs you could absorb his bolters and a charge, fall back with the scarabs and then counter-charge with something else like a Ctan (screened by the scarabs), but that's a lot of points just to counter him and relies on him having a reason to go after the scarabs in the first place knowing a Ctan is right behind them. Whenever the next points adjustments come through a Custodes captain on the jetbike really needs to get bumped up a fair amount.
Best bet against Custodes is to shoot them, and Ctan might be a good idea here as well to dish out some mortal wounds vs a low model count detachment.
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
IIRC the Shield Captain on bike rerolls hits, his lance rerolls wounds only on the charge and the lance doesn't shoot - but good luck surviving that charge. If he's the warlord he can get the 5+ FNP. He's one of the best value melee units IMO but he's also 30+ points more expensive than a DLord.
Only 30+ points? Still worth it.
I mean you do realize that the Biker Custodian dude is likely going to take a nerf right?
Plus not many characters have the ability to try and come back from the dead that many times.
With a Relic and a Strategem, at most we can attempt twice. On a non-modifiable 4+. Meh?
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
IIRC the Shield Captain on bike rerolls hits, his lance rerolls wounds only on the charge and the lance doesn't shoot - but good luck surviving that charge. If he's the warlord he can get the 5+ FNP. He's one of the best value melee units IMO but he's also 30+ points more expensive than a DLord.
Only 30+ points? Still worth it.
I mean you do realize that the Biker Custodian dude is likely going to take a nerf right?
Plus not many characters have the ability to try and come back from the dead that many times.
With a Relic and a Strategem, at most we can attempt twice. On a non-modifiable 4+. Meh?
How many times can the Custodes come back? You just need to kill him once.
I'm probably going to try Novokh first, for several reasons.
1) Everyone keeps saying its not optimal, meaning that getting it to work might be fun
2) Everyone is probably going to go Mephrit
3) My army is already red
4) The reroll and attacking twice thing sounds appropriate for a bunch of Angry crons, which is a suitable reflection for my thoughts on the new fluff. Its still dumb, and necrons are still just metal humans instead of robots.
How many times can the Custodes come back? You just need to kill him once.
I'm probably going to try Novokh first, for several reasons.
1) Everyone keeps saying its not optimal, meaning that getting it to work might be fun
2) Everyone is probably going to go Mephrit
3) My army is already red
4) The reroll and attacking twice thing sounds appropriate for a bunch of Angry crons, which is a suitable reflection for my thoughts on the new fluff. Its still dumb, and necrons are still just metal humans instead of robots.
Regardless, killing him will be the difficult part.
And yeah, for my Dynasty I'll probably be using Novokh most of the time. There are some fun stratagems, and rerolling stuff is always fun.
Very much an alpha strike list.
Destroyers and Deathmarks drop in, with Lord Veiling the Immortals, too. Popping the right strats should cripple one to three units.
TBs sweep up and deal with hordes. DDAs hang back with their mechanics.
Things I'm thinking about changing:
• if I can balance my points budget I'd want to upgrade that Mephrit Vanguard detachment to a Battalion (switching the two 5 man Deathmark squads to Immortals is easy enough, it's the second HQ tax that's getting me stuck).
• add a troop unit into Nephrekh's detachment to use as late game surprise objective grabbers.
• switch that Spyder into a third DDA and make it a Sautekh Spearhead to benefit from the Hyperlogical WL trait (especially if end up going with Mephrit battalion). Unfortunately I doubt I'll be able to take Imotekh, though.
One area I've been saving points on my builds is to have 2 Particle Beamer TBlades on a unit to soak up mortal wounds. The same with Wraiths if I run them with ranged weapons, I always leave one cheap unaltered as its likely that the opponent will drop at least a few and they just take their guns to the grave without ever making their points back. I use these points to beef up infantry/scarab units as that's, IMHO, a better investment of points. You have to picture your squads won't be at top performance, might as well reduce the points lost to one or two team members down.
Finally picked up the codex on Monday and have only had time to glance through it. What is the deal with Lychguard and Deathmarks? In their data sheets they are elites but in the points section they are troops??? I'm sure somewhere 20 pages back someone answered this already I haven't really looked at Necrons when 8th came out - wanted to wait for the codex so I've been playing IG for the past several months. Is it me or did our stuff get a huge point increase. I just looked up the destroyers and wraiths. Two units for which I have more models of than god and yet I don't see me playing them a whole lot. A unit of 3 just seems like a speed bump in the current meta. And how do scarabs benefit from fly?
I play an outrider detachment of custode bikers in my IG list and mine are always completely dead by the end of the game. I've only played them against Eldar so far and I can't apparently roll a 4+ invuln to save my life but still...they just seem to die a lot...
necron99 wrote: Finally picked up the codex on Monday and have only had time to glance through it. What is the deal with Lychguard and Deathmarks? In their data sheets they are elites but in the points section they are troops???
It's most likely an error. Evidently it would seem that GW is at good at proof reading as they are at writing good necron lore that doesn't make them look like bloody humans. I swear, I might as well collect Ad Mech, because at the moment there really isn't that much difference in their behavior. Immortals even give reports to their superiors verbally. Just...why? If its between machines, wouldn't they just instantly transmit data instead of using an inefficient medium of communication like a bunch of organics?
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
IIRC the Shield Captain on bike rerolls hits, his lance rerolls wounds only on the charge and the lance doesn't shoot - but good luck surviving that charge. If he's the warlord he can get the 5+ FNP. He's one of the best value melee units IMO but he's also 30+ points more expensive than a DLord.
I think we can get pretty close, Novokh D-Lord, warlord trait eternal madness, phylactery, warscythe upgraded into the blood scythe, so we get a 4 attacks plus a d3 hitting at s7, -4 ap and 2 damage per, rerolling hits and wounds whenever he charges, heroically intervenes or is charged. 6 wounds at T6, 3+/4++, and recovers a D3 wounds per turn. I'd say a properly kitted D-lord is in the same ballpark as a storm eagle cap,and if he is not quite the equal, he is about 15% cheaper. You can trade out the blood scythe for the nano scarb casket, for a little less offense but making him quite a bit more durable.
*edit* Almost forgot entropic strike, which lets us get a hit through his invul every fight phase.
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
IIRC the Shield Captain on bike rerolls hits, his lance rerolls wounds only on the charge and the lance doesn't shoot - but good luck surviving that charge. If he's the warlord he can get the 5+ FNP. He's one of the best value melee units IMO but he's also 30+ points more expensive than a DLord.
I think we can get pretty close, Novokh D-Lord, warlord trait eternal madness, phylactery, warscythe upgraded into the blood scythe, so we get a 4 attacks plus a d3 hitting at s7, -4 ap and 2 damage per, rerolling hits and wounds whenever he charges, heroically intervenes or is charged. 6 wounds at T6, 3+/4++, and recovers a D3 wounds per turn. I'd say a properly kitted D-lord is in the same ballpark as a storm eagle cap,and if he is not quite the equal, he is about 15% cheaper. You can trade out the blood scythe for the nano scarb casket, for a little less offense but making him quite a bit more durable.
*edit* Almost forgot entropic strike, which lets us get a hit through his invul every fight phase.
He's not more durable, the Bike Captain has 2+/3++/7Wounds. Well, 4++ base but for 1CP go to 3++. Regen only matters if you don't die before it kicks in, much like RP.
I would say if you want to compare DLords to Bike Captains, you're taking defensive upgrades, like Sempiternal Weave or Nanoscarab, maybe Nephrekh for -1 to hit WL Trait.
So the question is can a shield captain on a dawn eagle kill a d-lord in a single phase
.97 * .75 * .5 * 5 * 2 = 3.6 wounds per round
The answer is a resounding nope, unless his dice are super hot, the D-lord gets to attack back.
Spending a CP to get entropic strike the D-lord gets 2 through, which if the captain went for superior creation means 1.3 unsaved wounds
.89 * .89 * .33 * .66 * 5 * 2 = 1.7
For a total damage of 3 wound per turn for the D-Lord. So they are separated by .6 damage on a charge round, and one of them heals 2 points per turn and the other doesn't. So yeah I'd say it's pretty close even if the dawn eagle gets a charge off.
*edit* In most other situations the D-lord is flat better, s7 vs s6, 6 attacks vs 5 attacks, -4 ap vs -3 ap, and he heals so he is harder to whittle down.
12*.97*.33*.33=1.30 extra damage. So not a ton, but if dice are hot, D-Lord is very killable.
The main difference, I think, is that the D-Lord is likely to be one of your only melee threats, with maybe some Wraiths to back him up. EVERYTHING in a Custodes force is a melee threat.
Requizen wrote: It's usually not just a "Custodes" force, it's 3-5 Dawn Eagle Captains + an Imperium force behind.
That's comparing a single Captain maybe with the CP boost to a fully kitted DLord, taking Artifact and Warlord trait.
Just whale them with C'tan powers. Most Competitive list are going to include a Tesseract Vault due to what it can do. If you see Custodes or Dawn Eagle Captains just hit them up with Cosmic Fire, Thunderbolt and Antimatter meteor.
Yeah, C'tan are probably our best unit against custodes. Custodes really hate mortal wounds as those just bypass all of the defenses they pay for, so spamming them is a good tactic against them.
I tried a dlord with the revive on a 4+ and regain d3 wounds at the beginning of all turns vs tau and it sucked. It killed 2 drones when it was charging a coldstar commander then died to stealth suit firing. It got back up full health, charged the stealth suits. Killed one. They simply backed out and lit him up again killing him. He seems cool, but only 4 attacks isn't going to do much on his own.
The real question is what dynasty should the dda detachment be?
Hq - Cryptek w/ cloak spider
Heavy - 2 dda, one Spyder with repair and gloom
I took them as nihilakh and they did well until I had to move them. Not anything amazing though. Then I took them as mephrit and they did much better, don't underestimate the power of the low power at half distance (str 8 ap-3? Sure!) And the gauss flayer arrays at 12". Much better, but hitting on 4's with low power mode due to moving. Sautekh would counter that but you lose that Ap bonus so it's an interesting trade off.
Also I am thinking 3 squads of 20 warriors now. 2 squads almost do the trick, but 60 of them and 30 immortals, that's a lot of firepower.
Azuza001 wrote: I tried a dlord with the revive on a 4+ and regain d3 wounds at the beginning of all turns vs tau and it sucked. It killed 2 drones when it was charging a coldstar commander then died to stealth suit firing.
That's your problem. Try charging something that can't leave combat easily and gets overwatch buffs. And if you are going to charge Tau, don't go in alone.
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
IIRC the Shield Captain on bike rerolls hits, his lance rerolls wounds only on the charge and the lance doesn't shoot - but good luck surviving that charge. If he's the warlord he can get the 5+ FNP. He's one of the best value melee units IMO but he's also 30+ points more expensive than a DLord.
I think we can get pretty close, Novokh D-Lord, warlord trait eternal madness, phylactery, warscythe upgraded into the blood scythe, so we get a 4 attacks plus a d3 hitting at s7, -4 ap and 2 damage per, rerolling hits and wounds whenever he charges, heroically intervenes or is charged. 6 wounds at T6, 3+/4++, and recovers a D3 wounds per turn. I'd say a properly kitted D-lord is in the same ballpark as a storm eagle cap,and if he is not quite the equal, he is about 15% cheaper. You can trade out the blood scythe for the nano scarb casket, for a little less offense but making him quite a bit more durable.
*edit* Almost forgot entropic strike, which lets us get a hit through his invul every fight phase.
Maybe I am missing something, and please tell me if I am, but the D Lord is not a character and can just get sniped. Lascannons can easily put 6 wounds on this guy and shut down any of his living metal and phylactery buffs, and his buffs to nearby Destoryers. He has 1 higher toughness than a lord, but its still only T6 and doesn't cross the magic threshold. He does have the 10" move, but if your moving destroyers your going to be taking the -1 to hit with their heavy weapons. Why not just take a basic Lord (aka SM Lieutenant) and get the reroll 1's, but the Lord is a character and thus not targeable. Granted he only moves 10", but you can always advance the lord if need be, getting average of 9.5" if you want to keep him near Destroyers that move 10". Not to mention the lord buffs all infantry so your warriors, immortals, destroyers, deathmarks, many of the other characters etc... will all get the benefit of the rerolls if your destroyers get taken out. Am i missing something?
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
IIRC the Shield Captain on bike rerolls hits, his lance rerolls wounds only on the charge and the lance doesn't shoot - but good luck surviving that charge. If he's the warlord he can get the 5+ FNP. He's one of the best value melee units IMO but he's also 30+ points more expensive than a DLord.
I think we can get pretty close, Novokh D-Lord, warlord trait eternal madness, phylactery, warscythe upgraded into the blood scythe, so we get a 4 attacks plus a d3 hitting at s7, -4 ap and 2 damage per, rerolling hits and wounds whenever he charges, heroically intervenes or is charged. 6 wounds at T6, 3+/4++, and recovers a D3 wounds per turn. I'd say a properly kitted D-lord is in the same ballpark as a storm eagle cap,and if he is not quite the equal, he is about 15% cheaper. You can trade out the blood scythe for the nano scarb casket, for a little less offense but making him quite a bit more durable.
*edit* Almost forgot entropic strike, which lets us get a hit through his invul every fight phase.
Maybe I am missing something, and please tell me if I am, but the D Lord is not a character and can just get sniped. Lascannons can easily put 6 wounds on this guy and shut down any of his living metal and phylactery buffs, and his buffs to nearby Destoryers. He has 1 higher toughness than a lord, but its still only T6 and doesn't cross the magic threshold. He does have the 10" move, but if your moving destroyers your going to be taking the -1 to hit with their heavy weapons. Why not just take a basic Lord (aka SM Lieutenant) and get the reroll 1's, but the Lord is a character and thus not targeable. Granted he only moves 10", but you can always advance the lord if need be, getting average of 9.5" if you want to keep him near Destroyers that move 10". Not to mention the lord buffs all infantry so your warriors, immortals, destroyers, deathmarks, many of the other characters etc... will all get the benefit of the rerolls if your destroyers get taken out. Am i missing something?
DLord is 100% a Character, dunno what you're reading.
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
IIRC the Shield Captain on bike rerolls hits, his lance rerolls wounds only on the charge and the lance doesn't shoot - but good luck surviving that charge. If he's the warlord he can get the 5+ FNP. He's one of the best value melee units IMO but he's also 30+ points more expensive than a DLord.
I think we can get pretty close, Novokh D-Lord, warlord trait eternal madness, phylactery, warscythe upgraded into the blood scythe, so we get a 4 attacks plus a d3 hitting at s7, -4 ap and 2 damage per, rerolling hits and wounds whenever he charges, heroically intervenes or is charged. 6 wounds at T6, 3+/4++, and recovers a D3 wounds per turn. I'd say a properly kitted D-lord is in the same ballpark as a storm eagle cap,and if he is not quite the equal, he is about 15% cheaper. You can trade out the blood scythe for the nano scarb casket, for a little less offense but making him quite a bit more durable.
*edit* Almost forgot entropic strike, which lets us get a hit through his invul every fight phase.
Maybe I am missing something, and please tell me if I am, but the D Lord is not a character and can just get sniped. Lascannons can easily put 6 wounds on this guy and shut down any of his living metal and phylactery buffs, and his buffs to nearby Destoryers. He has 1 higher toughness than a lord, but its still only T6 and doesn't cross the magic threshold. He does have the 10" move, but if your moving destroyers your going to be taking the -1 to hit with their heavy weapons. Why not just take a basic Lord (aka SM Lieutenant) and get the reroll 1's, but the Lord is a character and thus not targeable. Granted he only moves 10", but you can always advance the lord if need be, getting average of 9.5" if you want to keep him near Destroyers that move 10". Not to mention the lord buffs all infantry so your warriors, immortals, destroyers, deathmarks, many of the other characters etc... will all get the benefit of the rerolls if your destroyers get taken out. Am i missing something?
DLord is 100% a Character, dunno what you're reading.
Blood of Kittens website. Going to go pick up the codex tomorrow. But if it is character then that makes a lot more sense. Still though I think the cheaper lord that buffs all infantry would be better.
Another list came to my head for my 1k tournament in a couple weeks.
This one really capitalizes on what kind of firepower is available at 1k points and the fact that RP are stronger at that points level. My main goal was to bring the nastiest cannons we have: Destroyers. They can pretty much wipeout most stuff on the board. The issue is that we run out of space quickly if aiming for a battalion due to our expensive troop MSUs.
Idea is pretty simple: CCB and Deathmarks eliminate the enemy buff units, breaking their strategy. Destroyers wreck face with their stratagem and are safe T1. Tomb Blades just zoom around the board teleporting and dishing out damage from a distance, virtually unkillable with RP. Cryptek keeps auto-advancing after the list firing the staff.
At 1k points its a lot of mobile firepower and the Destroyers can take down a key unit per turn at least 1 time with the start, twice if I win initiative.
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
IIRC the Shield Captain on bike rerolls hits, his lance rerolls wounds only on the charge and the lance doesn't shoot - but good luck surviving that charge. If he's the warlord he can get the 5+ FNP. He's one of the best value melee units IMO but he's also 30+ points more expensive than a DLord.
I think we can get pretty close, Novokh D-Lord, warlord trait eternal madness, phylactery, warscythe upgraded into the blood scythe, so we get a 4 attacks plus a d3 hitting at s7, -4 ap and 2 damage per, rerolling hits and wounds whenever he charges, heroically intervenes or is charged. 6 wounds at T6, 3+/4++, and recovers a D3 wounds per turn. I'd say a properly kitted D-lord is in the same ballpark as a storm eagle cap,and if he is not quite the equal, he is about 15% cheaper. You can trade out the blood scythe for the nano scarb casket, for a little less offense but making him quite a bit more durable.
*edit* Almost forgot entropic strike, which lets us get a hit through his invul every fight phase.
Maybe I am missing something, and please tell me if I am, but the D Lord is not a character and can just get sniped. Lascannons can easily put 6 wounds on this guy and shut down any of his living metal and phylactery buffs, and his buffs to nearby Destoryers. He has 1 higher toughness than a lord, but its still only T6 and doesn't cross the magic threshold. He does have the 10" move, but if your moving destroyers your going to be taking the -1 to hit with their heavy weapons. Why not just take a basic Lord (aka SM Lieutenant) and get the reroll 1's, but the Lord is a character and thus not targeable. Granted he only moves 10", but you can always advance the lord if need be, getting average of 9.5" if you want to keep him near Destroyers that move 10". Not to mention the lord buffs all infantry so your warriors, immortals, destroyers, deathmarks, many of the other characters etc... will all get the benefit of the rerolls if your destroyers get taken out. Am i missing something?
I know someone else already corrected you on the d-lord being a character (100% a character), but I wanted to point out that destroyers also have a baked in rule to ignore the -1 penalty for moving with heavy weapons.
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arhurt wrote: Another list came to my head for my 1k tournament in a couple weeks.
This one really capitalizes on what kind of firepower is available at 1k points and the fact that RP are stronger at that points level. My main goal was to bring the nastiest cannons we have: Destroyers. They can pretty much wipeout most stuff on the board. The issue is that we run out of space quickly if aiming for a battalion due to our expensive troop MSUs.
Idea is pretty simple: CCB and Deathmarks eliminate the enemy buff units, breaking their strategy. Destroyers wreck face with their stratagem and are safe T1. Tomb Blades just zoom around the board teleporting and dishing out damage from a distance, virtually unkillable with RP. Cryptek keeps auto-advancing after the list firing the staff.
At 1k points its a lot of mobile firepower and the Destroyers can take down a key unit per turn at least 1 time with the start, twice if I win initiative.
That's a pretty neat list, I like it. My only concern with lists and others like it is the lack of objective secured. Most games are objective based and I feel like having troops is so important.
12*.97*.33*.33=1.30 extra damage. So not a ton, but if dice are hot, D-Lord is very killable.
The main difference, I think, is that the D-Lord is likely to be one of your only melee threats, with maybe some Wraiths to back him up. EVERYTHING in a Custodes force is a melee threat.
The nice thing about a novokh detachment is that you generally bring more than a single melee threat, I've been getting ready for a 1650 tournament tomorrow, and I have my d-lord backed by wraiths and scarabs.
12*.97*.33*.33=1.30 extra damage. So not a ton, but if dice are hot, D-Lord is very killable.
The main difference, I think, is that the D-Lord is likely to be one of your only melee threats, with maybe some Wraiths to back him up. EVERYTHING in a Custodes force is a melee threat.
The nice thing about a novokh detachment is that you generally bring more than a single melee threat, I've been getting ready for a 1650 tournament tomorrow, and I have my d-lord backed by wraiths and scarabs.
In a full 2k list I might even toss in some sword and board lychguard, maybe, still in a very experimental stage.
give your D Lord Nanoscarabs instead of the blood Scythe. When it dies it comes back on a 4+ either d6 wounds. You can then use the Stratagem to bring it back with 1 wound on a 4+. You will get better millage.
Might also recommend a CCB over a D Lord as it is initially better over even if its 30-40pt more expensive.
I've been shielding myself from anything Necron Codex rumour related for a month+ now, which meant I got to do this with an unsullied mind:
... when I finally got the book. It was an awesome read from a naiv index point of view!
Having now read through these 59 forum pages, I'm back on track again.
One question - what do you feel fluff wise, with friendly games against.. friends, is it common courtesy to stick to one Dynasty for the entire army you're fielding? That was the reaction I got from my AM and Nids friends (which seem to do this).
torblind wrote: I've been shielding myself from anything Necron Codex rumour related for a month+ now, which meant I got to do this with an unsullied mind:
... when I finally got the book. It was an awesome read from a naiv index point of view!
Having now read through these 59 forum pages, I'm back on track again.
One question - what do you feel fluff wise, with friendly games against.. friends, is it common courtesy to stick to one Dynasty for the entire army you're fielding? That was the reaction I got from my AM and Nids friends (which seem to do this).
Yeah, soups are still something that's debated over, especially when it comes to friendly games. Personally I don't really like them, as its more book keeping, it means that I have to paint some units differently to keep track of army composition which means my army won't look uniform, and its sort of imbalanced as you can min-max the hell out of it. Just cherry pick the units that work well with one faction, and repeat for each detachment.
Fluffwise? Guard can soup aplenty-nothing wrong with Cadians bumping shoulders with Catachans. Nids should NOT soup like that, if you're sticking to fluff.
Crons? I could see it working, but not as easily as Guard can.
torblind wrote: I've been shielding myself from anything Necron Codex rumour related for a month+ now, which meant I got to do this with an unsullied mind:
... when I finally got the book. It was an awesome read from a naiv index point of view!
Having now read through these 59 forum pages, I'm back on track again.
One question - what do you feel fluff wise, with friendly games against.. friends, is it common courtesy to stick to one Dynasty for the entire army you're fielding? That was the reaction I got from my AM and Nids friends (which seem to do this).
That is our groups opinion as well. I currently have never mixed tyranid fleets, IG companies or Forgeworld trait and no one in my group has done it with their armies yet either.
Yeah i play nids and fluff wise I normally keep one detachment. For tourneys though their is a definite benefit of split Hive Fleets/Detachments to min max unit strengths when paired with certain rules.
I for see a lot of mephrit with shooty part and Nephrakh (or however you spell it) for the fast/assualty parts of the army.
Depends. Overlords are known for 'hiring' Crypteks to aid the survival of their troops. If you want to play fluffy, you can have one detachment lead by an Overlord and one by a Cryptek.
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
IIRC the Shield Captain on bike rerolls hits, his lance rerolls wounds only on the charge and the lance doesn't shoot - but good luck surviving that charge. If he's the warlord he can get the 5+ FNP. He's one of the best value melee units IMO but he's also 30+ points more expensive than a DLord.
I think we can get pretty close, Novokh D-Lord, warlord trait eternal madness, phylactery, warscythe upgraded into the blood scythe, so we get a 4 attacks plus a d3 hitting at s7, -4 ap and 2 damage per, rerolling hits and wounds whenever he charges, heroically intervenes or is charged. 6 wounds at T6, 3+/4++, and recovers a D3 wounds per turn. I'd say a properly kitted D-lord is in the same ballpark as a storm eagle cap,and if he is not quite the equal, he is about 15% cheaper. You can trade out the blood scythe for the nano scarb casket, for a little less offense but making him quite a bit more durable.
*edit* Almost forgot entropic strike, which lets us get a hit through his invul every fight phase.
Voidreaper are better than blood scythe. For all kind of targets. There is no reason to take blood scythe as a first artifact.
Voidreaper are better than blood scythe. For all kind of targets. There is no reason to take blood scythe as a first artifact.
Generally that's true, the wound on 2+ is great, as is the extra damage. However void reaper only wounds on 2+ against non-vehicles, and I want this guy dunking dreadnoughts, tanks and bigger units. So to make up for the lack of wounds on 2+ you take eternal madness as a warlord trait, which gives you a reroll wounds when charging. You'll be wounding most things on threes so here is how the math works out:
Void reaper
.89 * .97 * 3 * 4 = 10.4 wounds
blood scythe
.89 * .89 * 2 * 6 = 9.5 wounds
So it's only a wound behind, but here is where the blood scythe comes ahead, lots of things have 2 wounds or 1 wound, but only a fraction of models have three wounds or more, and about half of those are vehicles. So when you are fighting things with less than 3 wounds a lot of void reapers power is wasted in overkill. Having more attacks but a lower damage per hit works to the advantage of the blood scythe because it works better as a weed wacker, and almost as good (or better if it's a vehicle) against things with lots of wounds. Hope I'm explaining that ok,
Guys, one thing to keep in mind against rules lawyers: As per the book you can make any Dynasty have any dynastic code as per the rulebook, but dynasties different from the ones listed on the book do not automatically get the benefit of using the dynastic stratagems listed on page 110.
As by the book a Mynarch dynasty may, for instance, take Novokh's AWAKENED BY MURDER dynastic code, but would not get access to BLOOD RITES, a Novokh Stratagem.
Of course you can claim "counts-as" rules, just something to keep in mind when dealing with "those players".
Is it safe to assume that Nephreak PB Tomb Blades might actually be a "cheap" enough unit to move up the board to claim objectives? Sure your hitting on 4s because of advancing but the PB suffers the least for advancing and is the cheapest gun.
You could easily make an Nephreak Outrider containing everything you would want.
Someone at GW told me for flyers there's a rule somewhere that says you always measure from the hull, by then I argued the monoliths own special rule which says you measure from the hull... so does that mean for the doomsday ark you have to measure from it's tiny base? And what about big vehicles without a base such as landraiders.
Sorry for the questions I'm not especially experience in 8th edition
Vehicles without bases (e.g. Land Raiders) have distance measured from their hull. If you have a rule such as "Hover Tank", you also measure from the hull.
I don't understand the grading, how are any of the powers worse for a vault to use. It has a bigger model size and gets a bonus to every power so surely they are all better on the vault
The idea behind the grading was that certain powers are kind of 'wasted' on the Vault, since they practically serve the same purpose on a regula C'tan. But, if a power is ranked high on a regular, you can assume it will perform just as well on a Vault
And as for measuring from the Vault's base....if you folks really do it that way, sooooo many enemy units cannot get into melee with the Vault, since they can't get within 1" with the base.
It's not how "we folks" really do it, it's just, like, the rules man.
You do know that the vault is a pretty tall model with a lot of space under it right? Have you ever had problems fitting models around a flyer? No? Then you shouldn't have problems with the Vault.
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Odrankt wrote: Is it safe to assume that Nephreak PB Tomb Blades might actually be a "cheap" enough unit to move up the board to claim objectives? Sure your hitting on 4s because of advancing but the PB suffers the least for advancing and is the cheapest gun.
You could easily make an Nephreak Outrider containing everything you would want.
Fast
- 6 Destroyers as above
- 8 Tomb PB as above
- 8 Tomb PB as above
Funnily enough, if i was running a Nephrekh Outrider detachment, I'd go for destroyers and wraiths, wouldn't even bother with Tomb Blades.
The wraiths can benefit from the guaranteed advance and charge, while the destroyers can deep strike. Paying the 40-ish points for a Nephrekh tomb blade just for it to move 20" and grab an objective doesn't sound that efficient.
willow wrote: if i was running a Nephrekh Outrider detachment, I'd go for destroyers and wraiths, wouldn't even bother with Tomb Blades.
The wraiths can benefit from the guaranteed advance and charge, while the destroyers can deep strike. Paying the 40-ish points for a Nephrekh tomb blade just for it to move 20" and grab an objective doesn't sound that efficient.
You're completely right.
Add Scarabs to that list, because they'd love a free 6" advance every turn to zoom around.
Also, Warriors on the deep strike line up (as discussed a couple pages back, a decent sized blob held back until turn three or later, so most of the things that can threaten them are taken care of, then dropping on to a contested objective to hopefully steal it with their superior numbers and ObSec, is a tactic worth considering).
Had a game against my friends bids the other night, lists as follows:
Spoiler:
Necrons: Sautekh Dynasty
Battalion
HQ Overlord, Warscythe
Lord, Warscythe
Troops
10 Immortals, gauss
10 Immortals, gauss
10 Immortals, tesla
Elite
Deceiver
Heavy support
DDA
Flyer
Doom scythe
Doom scythe
Tyranids
Behemoth Hive fleet
Battalion
HQ Hive Tyrant
Brood lord
Troops
3 x 12 Genestealers
Elites
3 Venomthropes
3 Tyrant Guard
Heavy
Tyrannofex
Trygon
Mawloc
The game was very one sided, rolled the kill points mission and hammer and anvil deployment. Used the immortals and characters to buffer out my corner of the deployment zone, using the deceiver as a bluff to reposition my DDA from an initially conservative deployment into a much more aggressive one. The DDA was beastly, dealt 10 wounds T1 to the tyrannofex and T2 one shotted the Trygon, which had to come up outside my 'castle' due to deceiver deployment shenanigans. Although this may not be typical it's indicative of the firepower that it can put out. Impressions were very positive.
Less impressive were the doom scythes. Both killed a few Genestealers and Venomthropes with tesla, although the Venomthropes basically neutered their effectiveness. They were very fragile to boot, the tyrant guard one shotted them without much issue. Even with Sautekh dynasty my initial impression is to drop these in favour of another DDA and maybe a spider in order to take a spearhead detachment.
Single most valuable unit was the deceiver. Deployment shenanigans, c'tan powers and being pretty mean in combat makes this a monster. I'm toying with swapping this for a transcendent c'tan but it's far from certain. C'tan look to be a must take.
Just had 2 500pt games. I was against Space Woflfs and Custodes. Best Space wolves 4-1vp and drew against Custodes 1-1vp. Could of beaten them though if I had put my CCB in his deployment zone but I forgot that was a scoring objective for those games
My list
Spoiler:
Patrol - Mephrit
CCB, Warscythe, Gauss Cannon, Lighting Field, Immortal Pride
16 warriors
8 Tesla Immortals
497/500pts
My 1st time against Custodes and them having 2+ save with 3/4++ invul is really annoying. I was able to kill the Hawk though with my Immortals and CCB shooting and charging it (he got 1st turn and tried to charge my CCB and failed so out him in a bad position).
Funnily enough, if i was running a Nephrekh Outrider detachment, I'd go for destroyers and wraiths, wouldn't even bother with Tomb Blades.
The wraiths can benefit from the guaranteed advance and charge, while the destroyers can deep strike. Paying the 40-ish points for a Nephrekh tomb blade just for it to move 20" and grab an objective doesn't sound that efficient.
Right now what looks to be my go to Outrider is Nephrek, Scarabs, DLord w/ws and Casket, Deceiver, 6 Wraiths and 6 deepstriking Destroyers coming in next to the Deceiver-repositioned, Wraith screened DLord. Depending on points I'm wondering if a CCB w/Lightning Field might be better.
Stickeh wrote: Had a game against my friends bids the other night, lists as follows:
Spoiler:
Necrons: Sautekh Dynasty
Battalion
HQ Overlord, Warscythe
Lord, Warscythe
Troops
10 Immortals, gauss
10 Immortals, gauss
10 Immortals, tesla
Elite
Deceiver
Heavy support
DDA
Flyer
Doom scythe
Doom scythe
Tyranids
Behemoth Hive fleet
Battalion
HQ Hive Tyrant
Brood lord
Troops
3 x 12 Genestealers
Elites
3 Venomthropes
3 Tyrant Guard
Heavy
Tyrannofex
Trygon
Mawloc
The game was very one sided, rolled the kill points mission and hammer and anvil deployment. Used the immortals and characters to buffer out my corner of the deployment zone, using the deceiver as a bluff to reposition my DDA from an initially conservative deployment into a much more aggressive one. The DDA was beastly, dealt 10 wounds T1 to the tyrannofex and T2 one shotted the Trygon, which had to come up outside my 'castle' due to deceiver deployment shenanigans. Although this may not be typical it's indicative of the firepower that it can put out. Impressions were very positive.
Less impressive were the doom scythes. Both killed a few Genestealers and Venomthropes with tesla, although the Venomthropes basically neutered their effectiveness. They were very fragile to boot, the tyrant guard one shotted them without much issue. Even with Sautekh dynasty my initial impression is to drop these in favour of another DDA and maybe a spider in order to take a spearhead detachment.
Single most valuable unit was the deceiver. Deployment shenanigans, c'tan powers and being pretty mean in combat makes this a monster. I'm toying with swapping this for a transcendent c'tan but it's far from certain. C'tan look to be a must take.
Thanks for posting. Batreps always provide the best insight in my opinion. How did you deal with his hive tyrant?
Seems like everybody is going meprhit mephrit mephrit these days. Sure -1Ap feels good. I'll argue you can make better Sautekh combos.
1) Better AP won't help vs invu saves and feel no pains. There are a load of these in the meta.
2) You need to be in close range. While i can see the usefulness for Warriors, DDA or Monoliths, realise that in this meta, you will be charged the very next turn on which you shot. For anything else than DDA and monoliths, you won't be able to shoot again.
3) +1 to hit, with our whole army that hits on 3+, in mathematicly equivalent to -1AP in most case, but better against invu saves.
4) Nobody seems to like the Sautekh stratagem Methological destruction, it can potentially give +1 to hit to many units shooting the same target. Yes even vehicules. Plus, you can stay at long range. Anybody love 72'' DDA shot that hit on 2+?
5) Max out the Tesla: MWBD on a unit, then the Sautekh stratagem, then a stalker targets to reroll 1s for good measures. Methematicly that's the best Tesla you can dream of, hit on 2+, 3 hits on 4+, reroll 1s. Even against armor 2+ you will land a couple of wounds.
Yes i get it its a 2CP stratagem versus a passive trait. Even then, build your army around this strategy, i think its better.
I've read this entire thread, so I'm sorry for asking about Lychguard again. But I just don't know what to build given what else I own?
Thanks for reading!
Start collecting sets arent very good. Old one have nerfed stalker and new one have bad ani barage or two overlord.
Better start from ark, warriors and/or favorite hq.
Seems like everybody is going meprhit mephrit mephrit these days. Sure -1Ap feels good. I'll argue you can make better Sautekh combos.
1) Better AP won't help vs invu saves and feel no pains. There are a load of these in the meta.
2) You need to be in close range. While i can see the usefulness for Warriors, DDA or Monoliths, realise that in this meta, you will be charged the very next turn on which you shot. For anything else than DDA and monoliths, you won't be able to shoot again.
3) +1 to hit, with our whole army that hits on 3+, in mathematicly equivalent to -1AP in most case, but better against invu saves.
4) Nobody seems to like the Sautekh stratagem Methological destruction, it can potentially give +1 to hit to many units shooting the same target. Yes even vehicules. Plus, you can stay at long range. Anybody love 72'' DDA shot that hit on 2+?
5) Max out the Tesla: MWBD on a unit, then the Sautekh stratagem, then a stalker targets to reroll 1s for good measures. Methematicly that's the best Tesla you can dream of, hit on 2+, 3 hits on 4+, reroll 1s. Even against armor 2+ you will land a couple of wounds.
Yes i get it its a 2CP stratagem versus a passive trait. Even then, build your army around this strategy, i think its better.
Use some math. Tessla on 4+ give you 2 more hit for 6 atack. 11 hit instead 9. -1 AP on armour 2+ give you 2x more uswound. 1/3 wound instead 1/6.
Seems like everybody is going meprhit mephrit mephrit these days. Sure -1Ap feels good. I'll argue you can make better Sautekh combos.
1) Better AP won't help vs invu saves and feel no pains. There are a load of these in the meta.
2) You need to be in close range. While i can see the usefulness for Warriors, DDA or Monoliths, realise that in this meta, you will be charged the very next turn on which you shot. For anything else than DDA and monoliths, you won't be able to shoot again.
3) +1 to hit, with our whole army that hits on 3+, in mathematicly equivalent to -1AP in most case, but better against invu saves.
4) Nobody seems to like the Sautekh stratagem Methological destruction, it can potentially give +1 to hit to many units shooting the same target. Yes even vehicules. Plus, you can stay at long range. Anybody love 72'' DDA shot that hit on 2+?
5) Max out the Tesla: MWBD on a unit, then the Sautekh stratagem, then a stalker targets to reroll 1s for good measures. Methematicly that's the best Tesla you can dream of, hit on 2+, 3 hits on 4+, reroll 1s. Even against armor 2+ you will land a couple of wounds.
Yes i get it its a 2CP stratagem versus a passive trait. Even then, build your army around this strategy, i think its better.
I agree. I'm not sure Sautekh is the end all be all, but getting in 12" of enemies in the current is just asking to get messed up, which makes Mephrit really risky if you want to actually use their abilities. Sautekh has a really good Strat and the Run + Shoot is going to occasionally be a real lifesaver.
Kuguar6 wrote:
Use some math. Tessla on 4+ give you 2 more hit for 6 atack. 11 hit instead 9. -1 AP on armour 2+ give you 2x more uswound. 1/3 wound instead 1/6.
2+ isn't the only type of armor in the game. And even if you are Mephrit, shooting at something with 2+ is pretty wasted, since a lot of the Characters will have 3++ anyway, and if you're in half range to take advantage of the AP, you're about to be charged by something with 2+ and probably lose that unit. Most enemies won't just stand there and do nothing in response.
Seems like everybody is going meprhit mephrit mephrit these days. Sure -1Ap feels good. I'll argue you can make better Sautekh combos.
1) Better AP won't help vs invu saves and feel no pains. There are a load of these in the meta.
2) You need to be in close range. While i can see the usefulness for Warriors, DDA or Monoliths, realise that in this meta, you will be charged the very next turn on which you shot. For anything else than DDA and monoliths, you won't be able to shoot again.
3) +1 to hit, with our whole army that hits on 3+, in mathematicly equivalent to -1AP in most case, but better against invu saves.
4) Nobody seems to like the Sautekh stratagem Methological destruction, it can potentially give +1 to hit to many units shooting the same target. Yes even vehicules. Plus, you can stay at long range. Anybody love 72'' DDA shot that hit on 2+?
5) Max out the Tesla: MWBD on a unit, then the Sautekh stratagem, then a stalker targets to reroll 1s for good measures. Methematicly that's the best Tesla you can dream of, hit on 2+, 3 hits on 4+, reroll 1s. Even against armor 2+ you will land a couple of wounds.
Yes i get it its a 2CP stratagem versus a passive trait. Even then, build your army around this strategy, i think its better.
I agree. I'm not sure Sautekh is the end all be all, but getting in 12" of enemies in the current is just asking to get messed up, which makes Mephrit really risky if you want to actually use their abilities. Sautekh has a really good Strat and the Run + Shoot is going to occasionally be a real lifesaver.
Kuguar6 wrote:
Use some math. Tessla on 4+ give you 2 more hit for 6 atack. 11 hit instead 9. -1 AP on armour 2+ give you 2x more uswound. 1/3 wound instead 1/6.
2+ isn't the only type of armor in the game. And even if you are Mephrit, shooting at something with 2+ is pretty wasted, since a lot of the Characters will have 3++ anyway, and if you're in half range to take advantage of the AP, you're about to be charged by something with 2+ and probably lose that unit. Most enemies won't just stand there and do nothing in response.
Aye, pretty standard to compare the -1 AP on 3+ instead of 2+.
Further, the benefit of Sautekh isn't necessarily locked into access to that CP. Frankly, having played quite a few games with the Codex now (about 3x 2k games versus Eldar, IG, and about 4x games against TS) I would argue vociferously in favor of Sautekh's ability to let your DDAs run-n-gun.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Moreover, Sautekh gives you access to Imotekh who's amazingly solid as a named HQ for Necrons.
Thanks for posting. Batreps always provide the best insight in my opinion. How did you deal with his hive tyrant?
Due to points constraints he took a foot tyrant instead of winged. By the time he got into combat with it by T3 all he could fight were two squads of immortals and a Lord. The c’tan was unfortunate to not kill him but he rolled well on his 4+ invun and was low on wounds from combat with the broodlord and genestealers. The third squad of immortals veiled up with my OL and got a successful charge off against the hive guard, and the DDA positioned itself to be able to glow away the tyant should be leave combat. We called the game T4 with the tyrant still alive, but hopelessly outgunned and surrounded.
Had the tyrant been equipped with wings it would have been harder to contain him, but baiting him with my juicy warlord and tesla immortals then whittling down the gene stealers gave me a huge positional advantage. The veil of darkness jumped out at me when I first read the book and I can’t think of May games where I wouldn’t take it. Being able to redeploy the OL plus a unit of MWBD immortals anywhere mid game is incredible value, be it for kill points or objectives.
Man, I can't find a T.Vault anywhere on the Eastern seaboard for sale. I knew I should have bought the one I saw a few months ago... such a good model.
You can use the CTan thunderbolt power to get to characters right? Just pick a unit that is being buffed by a troublesome character within 3" and you will always get 4+ on him too
torblind wrote: You can use the CTan thunderbolt power to get to characters right? Just pick a unit that is being buffed by a troublesome character within 3" and you will always get 4+ on him too
Nope, the power specifically states you cannot target characters who have <10 maximum wounds.
I haven't really looked at Necrons when 8th came out - wanted to wait for the codex so I've been playing 