I'm thinking on bubble-wrapping a couple of Knights with Seraphim, rather than trying to kill a Knight with them.

SJ

That's pretty clever. The Seraphim can use their jump packs to keep up (which foot infantry can't), their hand flamers to Wall of Death any infantry that charges them, and their Hit & Run to get out of melee so the Knight can Stomp the enemy.

 SisterSydney wrote:
That's pretty clever. The Seraphim can use their jump packs to keep up (which foot infantry can't), their hand flamers to Wall of Death any infantry that charges them, and their Hit & Run to get out of melee so the Knight can Stomp the enemy.

Exactly.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I'm thinking on bubble-wrapping a couple of Knights with Seraphim, rather than trying to kill a Knight with them.

SJ

Yep - save movement distance, able to keep folks off of the big guy w/ 5 flamer templates (assuming Celestine is with them). That's my plan anyway

As for the shield arc - the way vehicles do it is going to be hard to apply to this walker. it has no clear defined sides. I was trying to figure out how on a long board los is going to work, and what (clearly) defines the front/sides of the walker. On top of that, aside from rolling a 6 on the dmg table on a pen, you're likely just going to glance it to death if you manage to bypass the shields.

I rolled a few tests w/ my Jaeger (Striker Eureka baby!) standing in as a knight. The best I was able to do was 10 shots, 8 hits, 5 unsaved, 2 glances and 1 pen with no additional damage from table (no 6's for explode). So 3hp down, 3 to go after a full turn of all 3 exorcists nailing it (w/ no cover).
Best I could do in response was always 2 hits (scatter avg 4" w/ LoS, still able to hit) but almost no pens due to str8 shots hitting the F13. So, the cannon is definitely not an anti-tank weapon...but holy terra did it wipe some foot troops off the board. The melta was better at taking down the tanks (of course) but the blast still feels weird on a melta weapon. While the S9 Ap1 is nice, only having the single hit still sucks - would really hurt a group of termies though.

 Ovion wrote:
Or take your own Knight, AND MEET IN GLORIOUS BATTLE!

Excellent. Have an exalt.

I'm not going to bother with a knight, not right away anyway, I know some people at my club will be picking on up, so I'll see what they think of it's performance on the table before I commit to one. I'm more interested in the new Guard Dex, they are our only Battle Bros (well, we've got =I=..and SM if you take Red Hunters and a Inquisitor)

D

ncshooter426 wrote:
rolled a few tests w/ my Jaeger (Striker Eureka baby!) standing in as a knight. The best I was able to do was 10 shots, 8 hits, 5 unsaved, 2 glances and 1 pen with no additional damage from table (no 6's for explode). So 3hp down, 3 to go after a full turn of all 3 exorcists nailing it (w/ no cover)

Yeah, if you really want to take down a Knight (or anything else), you can't afford a set piece shooting match against an equal points value of Exorcists, you have to mass fire and take it down completely before it can grind you down. Against a Knight-Paladin with its long range gun, I'd be firing all three Exorcists plus scouting melta Dominions plus anything else I could muster on turn one. A Knight-Errant has "only" 36" range so you might gamble on reserves rolls letting your Dominions outflank it as it comes up the board.

Conversely, as you say -- though I didn't realize it until you said it -- the lack of ranged Destroyer weapons makes Knights an extremely inefficient way of killing vehicles: At best they get one penetrating hit per shot, just like any other vehicle, and not many shots. Sounds like their role is frying heavy infantry and light vehicles en masse while something else in their army goes after the tanks that are going after the Knight. So if the Knight is on the Sisters' side, those 3 Exorcists with their 3d6 S8 AP1 shots per turn to take out enemy armoured vehicles are going to be the Knights' best friend, keeping it alive so it can provide the Sisters those lovely blast templates they can't get with their own Codex.

So, yay, tactical Rock Paper Scissors.

And no dammit we do not counter the enemy Knight by marching our own up the board to meet it chainsword-to-chainsword in GLORIOUS COMBAT, that is tactically idiotic, what kind of militarily unrealistic, testosterone-fueled fantasy do you think we're..... oh.

If you find yourself in a fair fight... Your tactics suck

 SisterSydney wrote:

ncshooter426 wrote:
rolled a few tests w/ my Jaeger (Striker Eureka baby!) standing in as a knight. The best I was able to do was 10 shots, 8 hits, 5 unsaved, 2 glances and 1 pen with no additional damage from table (no 6's for explode). So 3hp down, 3 to go after a full turn of all 3 exorcists nailing it (w/ no cover)

Yeah, if you really want to take down a Knight (or anything else), you can't afford a set piece shooting match against an equal points value of Exorcists, you have to mass fire and take it down completely before it can grind you down. Against a Knight-Paladin with its long range gun, I'd be firing all three Exorcists plus scouting melta Dominions plus anything else I could muster on turn one. A Knight-Errant has "only" 36" range so you might gamble on reserves rolls letting your Dominions outflank it as it comes up the board.

Conversely, as you say -- though I didn't realize it until you said it -- the lack of ranged Destroyer weapons makes Knights an extremely inefficient way of killing vehicles: At best they get one penetrating hit per shot, just like any other vehicle, and not many shots. Sounds like their role is frying heavy infantry and light vehicles en masse while something else in their army goes after the tanks that are going after the Knight. So if the Knight is on the Sisters' side, those 3 Exorcists with their 3d6 S8 AP1 shots per turn to take out enemy armoured vehicles are going to be the Knights' best friend, keeping it alive so it can provide the Sisters those lovely blast templates they can't get with their own Codex.

So, yay, tactical Rock Paper Scissors.

And no dammit we do not counter the enemy Knight by marching our own up the board to meet it chainsword-to-chainsword in GLORIOUS COMBAT, that is tactically idiotic, what kind of militarily unrealistic, testosterone-fueled fantasy do you think we're..... oh.

Yeppers. Best I can tell, the knight (w/ BC) is best at laying down serious hurt with S8 5" pie plates on infantry and light vehicles. Of course, if it manages to get into CC with a tank - that's one dead tank Leaving it unguarded is a bad idea, as is ditching your anti-tank/hard hitting excorcists in the backline. Still think spearheading is the best approach - w/ flanks of dominators+seraphim for bubble. Could also march an inquisitor behind it w/ the re-roll primus skill... mwahahah. I hope to experiment with some tactics soon, but I have a feeling there will be many eyes on the big walker and not the other girls on the field - which is a good thing. Let the sisters march up and hold objectives, or get within roasting range... mmMMmmmmm... dead xeno/heretics.

If you're gonna take an inqusitor to walk behind it you should roll the the divinarion table for ingores cover before defaulting on prescience, 36" S8 ap1 large blast with ignores cover! Why? Because feth you, that's why. Of course you'll only get it 1 out of six games, but those games will be stupid funny.

D

Perfect timing only works on the psyker's unit. So you can't cast it on a vehicle.

Talking about knight tactics within AS armies: do not forget they have relentless.

That means Move-shoot, move-shoot until something is within 12", and then just charge (enemy vehicles let's say) so you get that extra distance across the board.
With a bit of luck, something stays alive for 1 combat phase, and you walk off to repeat on your turn =P

Walkers are vehicles, and so don't care about that sort of thing anyway.

It's possibly so they can shoot then assault though.

So, just realized a thing. That large S9 melts template has a less than 50% chance of killing a Rhino out in the open.

bogalubov wrote:
Perfect timing only works on the psyker's unit. So you can't cast it on a vehicle.

awwwwww :(

D

 Ovion wrote:
Walkers are vehicles, and so don't care about that sort of thing anyway.

It's possibly so they can shoot then assault though.

But walkers can be locked in combat right? I though i read Reaver titans could be CC locked? =P

Although i also vaguely remember a rule that evn when in CC they can still be shot at, right?

Just pointing out that things like baneblades cannot move in the Assault phase whereas Knights could get up to 12" extra movement (roll those 6s lol)

Last I checked Super-Heavies / Gargantuans can only be locked by other Super-Heavies / Gargantuans.
Apparently this isn't a thing anymroe (at least that I can find in my Apoc book... )
That's both wierd and makes little/no sense... how can ant-like people hold up a GIANT walking weapons platform? O-o

yeah i know, but it's apparently how the new Escalation book words it i believe (will need to check my copy tonight)

Only way to put it: Yes they can lock it, but one stomp attack and unless they are VERY strong they would die anyway lol (basically the rule is there if a CC unit actually manages to survive, they get the advantage of locking it...)

Also if something like a demon prince locks you knight/ SH walker, it does kinda make sense =P

 Ovion wrote:
Last I checked Super-Heavies / Gargantuans can only be locked by other Super-Heavies / Gargantuans.
Apparently this isn't a thing anymroe (at least that I can find in my Apoc book... )
That's both wierd and makes little/no sense... how can ant-like people hold up a GIANT walking weapons platform? O-o

"Aaaaaah! They're crawling up my legs, they're crawling up my legs, get them off get them OFF GET THEM OFF AAAAAAAAH!"

With nids I could imagine this huge swarm of them just moving up to clompletely overwhelm a superheavy. Imperial guardsmen climbing up an warlord titan from the outside though...

Brother Michael wrote:
With nids I could imagine this huge swarm of them just moving up to clompletely overwhelm a superheavy. Imperial guardsmen climbing up an warlord titan from the outside though...

Thats exactly what happens to Titans in various fluff examples - and not jsut to Nids, its why the Legions have Skitarii

From my incomplete 40K movie script, an Imperial Guard infantry attack on a traitor Emperor Titan:

 BlackTalos wrote:
yeah i know, but it's apparently how the new Escalation book words it i believe (will need to check my copy tonight)

Only way to put it: Yes they can lock it, but one stomp attack and unless they are VERY strong they would die anyway lol (basically the rule is there if a CC unit actually manages to survive, they get the advantage of locking it...)

Also if something like a demon prince locks you knight/ SH walker, it does kinda make sense =P

Or you could lock it with priests and crusaders. Re rollable 3++ goes a long way against stomp. I could use my seraphim. Last could games taught me that they are immune to anything AP3 or better with their amazing 6++ (and then promptly roll like crap vs enemy bolters).

bogalubov wrote:
Perfect timing only works on the psyker's unit. So you can't cast it on a vehicle.

You sure? I could have sworn you selected an allied unit, not it's unit. Being limited to the psykers own unit sounds extremely limiting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Michael wrote:
With nids I could imagine this huge swarm of them just moving up to clompletely overwhelm a superheavy. Imperial guardsmen climbing up an warlord titan from the outside though...

I seem to remember some oddball rule about not being able to assault something you had no chance in actually hurting. Swarm of gaunts could never bring enough damage to the unit to actually threaten it, so it would just keep on chuggin' through them.
Edit: Found it - it's the charge rule. If a unit has no chance of inflicting damage, it can't charge.

Also, I, um, already homebrewed an Adepta Sororitas variant of the Knight. It's, um, a giant Seraphim that Deep Strikes? Yeah.

Mavnas wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
yeah i know, but it's apparently how the new Escalation book words it i believe (will need to check my copy tonight)

Only way to put it: Yes they can lock it, but one stomp attack and unless they are VERY strong they would die anyway lol (basically the rule is there if a CC unit actually manages to survive, they get the advantage of locking it...)

Also if something like a demon prince locks you knight/ SH walker, it does kinda make sense =P

Or you could lock it with priests and crusaders. Re rollable 3++ goes a long way against stomp. I could use my seraphim. Last could games taught me that they are immune to anything AP3 or better with their amazing 6++ (and then promptly roll like crap vs enemy bolters).

That works well against stomp, yeah, but what about the 4 D weapon hits that come first? I'd say 4 dead crusaders. and unless you have a unit of 5+ crusaders and a priest (which i don't think fits in any army build) that were not shot at in the first few turns before they actually get in CC, then the Knight would just use it's 12" move and simply avoid that unit (as it will do with many others).

Do not forget either that Knights are I4, so anything relatively able in CC could be a threat simply at I5 with a strong attack.

 BlackTalos wrote:

Mavnas wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
yeah i know, but it's apparently how the new Escalation book words it i believe (will need to check my copy tonight)

Only way to put it: Yes they can lock it, but one stomp attack and unless they are VERY strong they would die anyway lol (basically the rule is there if a CC unit actually manages to survive, they get the advantage of locking it...)

Also if something like a demon prince locks you knight/ SH walker, it does kinda make sense =P

Or you could lock it with priests and crusaders. Re rollable 3++ goes a long way against stomp. I could use my seraphim. Last could games taught me that they are immune to anything AP3 or better with their amazing 6++ (and then promptly roll like crap vs enemy bolters).

That works well against stomp, yeah, but what about the 4 D weapon hits that come first? I'd say 4 dead crusaders. and unless you have a unit of 5+ crusaders and a priest (which i don't think fits in any army build) that were not shot at in the first few turns before they actually get in CC, then the Knight would just use it's 12" move and simply avoid that unit (as it will do with many others).

Do not forget either that Knights are I4, so anything relatively able in CC could be a threat simply at I5 with a strong attack.

Remember it has to hit first so thats 2 hits then a 1/6 chance of doing zip.

true, so an average of 2 crusaders down with a chance of escape...
so 3 Crusaders units with priest might just have a chance, but I still would not count on it =P

 BlackTalos wrote:
true, so an average of 2 crusaders down with a chance of escape...
so 3 Crusaders units with priest might just have a chance, but I still would not count on it =P

The stomp only has a 7/27th chance of killing crusaders.

What about it's Melta large blast (or cannon), S10 hammer of wrath and 5 D weapons attacks? But yes, i did say i agreed that they would actually be rather decent =)

[Edit] The crusaders with priest.
being decent.
cause we know the knights are...

 BlackTalos wrote:
What about it's Melta large blast (or cannon), S10 hammer of wrath and 5 D weapons attacks? But yes, i did say i agreed that they would actually be rather decent =)

[Edit] The crusaders with priest.
being decent.
cause we know the knights are...

The melta large blast has about 40% chance of popping their rhino assuming no cover or 6+ cover. (About 50% if you grab the inquisition version with no AoF). The being single shot makes it not so great.

Simon leen running sisters just took down Tony Kopach at the ToF invite. Simon won 15-5 and is advancing.

Sisters do have some good builds it seems.

What was his army build?

he is running sisters and inquisition

3 exorcists
2 sister squads with maxed flamer templates
cannoness
coteaz
xenons inquisitor with nades
dca squad in a land raider
2 acolyte squads min sized for scoring
3 dominion units with maxed meltas in immolators

Looks pretty bloody deadly.

Nice to hear the Sisters are doing well in the big leagues!

 frgsinwntr wrote:
he is running sisters and inquisition

3 exorcists
2 sister squads with maxed flamer templates
cannoness
coteaz
xenons inquisitor with nades
dca squad in a land raider
2 acolyte squads min sized for scoring
3 dominion units with maxed meltas in immolators

Any priests in that list? They've been pretty omnipresent since the new codex came out.

Did the Xenos inquisitor have the libram to let him scout? I had once considered an army of 3 dominion squads + landraider with DCA squad all scouting forward and murdering whatever was closest. I never could quite bring myself to spend that many points on just a handful of units, but then I think when i was pricing them out I was giving each of the dominion squads, max meltas, a priest with plasma rifle, and a plasma pistol on the superior for 220 points for each squad (that adds up fast). Then again, when you scout forward 21 shots with AP1-2 that can ignore cover for a turn and a DCA squad full of murder... (Of course that build doesn't leave enough points for exorcists.)

Wow, can't believe he's doing so well with the 'Raider deathstar. I run a similar list and the DCAs are devastating IF they get into combat, but it is such a big points sink I'm dropping the 'Raider for a Valkyrie. If the 'Raider gets popped the unit are dead, which is bye bye to over 400 points.

If he doe run this I'm sure he has a priest in the unit. Re-roll hits and re-roll wounds are amazing - I took a DCA star with priest and hit and wounded with every single one of my attacks against my opponents Nurgle Lord and spawn mini-star. Guess who won

I think the key to that list is that there's 3 units of concentrated melta fire to either act as a fire magnet or help clear the way for the death cult star. Either that or crusaders + Coteaz = enough tanking power once they're out of the raider.

yes there is a priest in the DCA unit...

sadly he only beat tony... and thats it...
:(

 frgsinwntr wrote:
yes there is a priest in the DCA unit...

sadly he only beat tony... and thats it...
:(

What's the mix of crusaders and DCAs? (I assume there's only crusaders, dcas, and a priest + the inquisitors attached to it?)

Well, the Sisters still went to the ToF Invitational and he pulled off a win against a top level opponent with Eldar. So much respect to him for representing the Nuns with Guns on a national level.

Im wondering,what is the best all round,take all comers type fortification for sisters to take?

Gomericus wrote:
Im wondering,what is the best all round,take all comers type fortification for sisters to take?

I would be inclined to say the Bastion.
It gives height for line of sight, protection with plenty of fire points, emplaced weapons, and something to hide behind, for a reasonably low price.

Taking this to Dark Star GT in Minneapolis.

Uriah

3x squads of five Battle Sisters with flamer, storm bolter, and plasma pistol. Priest in each squad. Multi melta immolator with storm bolter

One squad of thirteen with combi flamer, two flamers, heavy flamer immolator. Priest attached with book.

Melta dominion squad with combi melta and immolator with multi melta.

Nine seraphims with two sets of hand flamers.

Exorcist with storm bolter.

Hereticus inquisiter with null rod and inferno pistol in power armour. Has the book with scout on turn one. Three servo skulls.

Three squads of five psykers. Chimera with two heavy bolters with psybolt ammo.

Aegis defense line.

I have had alot of luck with this list. I guess I will find out this weekend how much.
My gallery has some photos, I will be updating with more

So.. I ran into an interesting challenge today and one I figured I would see if anyone here could crack it.

I played a necron player at 2000 points. I took a semi competitive list against him, since it was my first time playing him, but turns out he went all Escalation on me and destroyed me by end of turn 4.

I ran his list through army builder after the game and it turns out he actually had 434 points above the cap but I dont think he cheated more than he simply didnt build his list properly.

Nonetheless, the real challenge was the Transcendant C'tan

He had him built with Transliminal Stride, Wave of Withering and Seismic Assault.

It can easily be fielded in a legal 2000 points necron list.

How would we deal with this? I dont have access to titans myself, but otherwise I can build/get pretty much everything else.

What list should I try at 2000 to deal with this?

I think the short answer is we don't.

The Transcendent C'Tan is truly nasty in ways that Titans and other things that have AV aren't.

Pretty much the only non escalation unit I can think of that can deal with this guy are a bunch of centurions with grav cannons. (And 5 of them should take him from full Wounds to dead... which they have to because otherwise he will murder them on the subsequent turn.)

Crusaders (lots of them) with a priest could tank him for a few turns and honestly deny him the ability to make back his points assuming he can't just transliminal stride/otherwise disengage from that combat (not 100% on the escalation rules).


Let's put things into perspective:

At T9, 6 wounds, 3+/4++ and FNP, it's going to take lots of shots to hurt him.

Anything below S6 can't at all. A melta gun fired at BS4 has a 2/3 * 1/3 * 1/2 * 2/3 = 2/27 chance to inflict a wound. (So you'd have to put on average 81 melta shots into him to bring him down... now granted a 2000pt SoB army could in fact have over 40 meltaguns, concentrating all of them that much for 2-3 rounds would cause you to lose lots of them, and probably almost all your army when he explodes.

I guess if you had rad grenades from an inquisitor the number of shots would go down some, but the math is daunting no matter how you look at it.

By contrast, if you use grav cannon shots which only come on centurions who have a built in ability to reroll their chance to wound, you instead you get 2/3 * 8/9 * 1/2 * 2/3 = 16/81 wounds per shot.

If you can twin-link those you can get 8/9 * 8/9 * 1/2 * 2/3 = 64/283 or about .26...

Ok... so actually by that math you need 22 shots and the whole unit puts out 25. So if you can twinlink the fire of a unit that is just 10 points cheaper than the C'tan's base cost himself, you have about a 50-50 shot of taking him down in a round. (To be fair if you do pull that off, and the Centurions are at max range, you avoid his massive death explosion, you've pretty much won that game.)

Fun fact. You can put 5 centurions into a Landraider Crusader, scout them forward 12" (for the all improtant task of getting within 24" of the C'Tan before he could act you chose your allies to be Raven Guard ,right?), go first, move the raider 6", disembark them 6" forward for up to 24" of movement before they fire (you'll probably lose some distance to maneuvering). So really. Put them somewhere where the C'tan can't be more than 48" from you... put the psyker that will twin link their shots somewhere near enough that he can be in range to cast prescience (this can be an inquisitor with the libram that lets him scout first turn).

 frgsinwntr wrote:
yes there is a priest in the DCA unit...

sadly he only beat tony... and thats it...
:(

One does not simply 'only' beat Tony Kopach.

Mavnas wrote:
you chose your allies to be Raven Guard ,right?

Raven Guard chapter traits DO NOT allow models with bulky and extra bulky to scout, just scouts and power armor marines and their transports.

Feel No Pain 5+, not 4+.

It's pretty nasty though.

I favour Transliminal Stride, Cosmic Fire and Wave of Withering myself. (StrD 18" move, then 2 Hellstorms)

Though in a non-apoc game I'd probably go Storm of Heavenly Fire, then Cosmic Fire + Sky of Falling / Maelstrom, just so it's a little more 'toned down' and slightly less of an ass for taking it in the first place.

T9, 6W, 3+ / 4+* w/ Feel No Pain is pretty nasty though, needing a lot of firepower (or 1-2 StrD shots) to bring down.
On the plus side, if you can get something in combat (such as a blob) that can wither the 8 attacks a turn, it's stuck there.

That would be the tactic i'd advise:

Get it stuck with crusaders, charge with Your Imperial Knight. Sorted =P

I'm very curious about this list and how it works:

 sfshilo wrote:
Taking this to Dark Star GT in Minneapolis.

Uriah

3x squads of five Battle Sisters with flamer, storm bolter, and plasma pistol. Priest in each squad. Multi melta immolator with storm bolter

One squad of thirteen with combi flamer, two flamers, heavy flamer immolator. Priest attached with book.

Melta dominion squad with combi melta and immolator with multi melta.

Nine seraphims with two sets of hand flamers.

Exorcist with storm bolter.

Hereticus inquisiter with null rod and inferno pistol in power armour. Has the book with scout on turn one. Three servo skulls.

Three squads of five psykers. Chimera with two heavy bolters with psybolt ammo.

Aegis defense line.

I have had alot of luck with this list. I guess I will find out this weekend how much.
My gallery has some photos, I will be updating with more

Only one Exorcist? More Seraphim than Dominions in Fast Attack? Battle Sister Squads using a special weapon slot for a Storm Bolter? These are all contrary to conventional wisdom with the 6th edition codex, and I'm very interested in someone who uses them successfully. What are your tactics and experiences?

 Ovion wrote:
Feel No Pain 5+, not 4+.
T9, 6W, 3+ / 4+* w/ Feel No Pain is pretty nasty though, needing a lot of firepower (or 1-2 StrD shots) to bring down.
On the plus side, if you can get something in combat (such as a blob) that can wither the 8 attacks a turn, it's stuck there.

Don't forget it stomps.

And stomps potentially with the large blast template....

Yeah, so crusaders with priest with the rerollable 3++ work. There's not a lot of other things that do.

Curiously enough, I think Repentia might be a worthy counter for Knights, especially against a Knight-Only list.

The StrD weapons are only about as deadly as any other against them, and they hit with good old Eviscerators.

Definately viable as a counter-charge unit, possibly store them in a rhino?

I'm having a Knight painted up in Sisters colours as a counter

Yeah, so crusaders with priest with the rerollable 3++ work. There's not a lot of other things that do.

Strength D close combat weapon so they just die............

They've got a reasonable defense against the Stomp attacks though.

I'm confused, D Weapons ignore invulnerables so how are crusaders good tarpits against either the tran. ctan or the new mini titan?

Playing a 600pt game against DE tomorrow, anyone got some general advice? I know he's always runs a few raiders and/or venoms, so an exorcist is a must against his AV11 vehicles. Since it's a small game, I'll run two BSS with double melta instead of the usual F/HF, and go without dominions for a change. I was thinking of taking Celestine with seraphim bodyguard to deal with his infantry.

toocool61 wrote:
I'm confused, D Weapons ignore invulnerables so how are crusaders good tarpits against either the tran. ctan or the new mini titan?

The Knight doesn't have many attacks and has to hit first too. It'll kill 1-2 crusaders a turn maybe. The stomps aren't Strength D so you get your saves against em.

AFAIK none of the CTan's close combat attacks are str D.

Besides, a Destroyer CCW against a one-wound model is... inefficient. Every attack the Giant Chainsaw of Bitey Doom or the Khorny Khleaver of Khorne spends squashing your infantry is a net plus for you.

 SisterSydney wrote:
I'm very curious about this list and how it works:

Only one Exorcist? More Seraphim than Dominions in Fast Attack? Battle Sister Squads using a special weapon slot for a Storm Bolter? These are all contrary to conventional wisdom with the 6th edition codex, and I'm very interested in someone who uses them successfully. What are your tactics and experiences?

So I started this list like the others. You know the normal list.
My issue with exocists is they are obvious. They are expensive and they draw fire like crazy. Three of them is a LARGE commitment to heavy support tanks. They die you are done.

The chimeras....oh boy do they pump out pain. At 60 points with the 50 point pskyers they fill two rolls the exorcists do not. Anti infantry and hoard and they continue to fill this roll even after the chimera dies. The Psykers can also contest!

The large troop squad outflanks with uriah and the inquisitor assuming he passes his ld check. With a second priest it is a beat stick unit. Good shooting, hard to kill, denys slay the warlord.

The Seraphims with flamers are just a good harassing unit. It is surprising how much attention they get just being a jump unit. And with servo skulls you can deepstrike well.

Finally, the storm bolter is an assault weapon, its cheap, its like having another bolter in the squad to make up for the priests sucky shooting. Another flamer doesn't do a whole lot in a squad that small and I have WAY more then enough AT in the army to justify the more expensive melta.

 Ovion wrote:
Curiously enough, I think Repentia might be a worthy counter for Knights, especially against a Knight-Only list.

The StrD weapons are only about as deadly as any other against them, and they hit with good old Eviscerators.

Definately viable as a counter-charge unit, possibly store them in a rhino?

Standard Sisters, even without priest are so much better:

The knight has 3 attacks that kill you:
S10 Hammer of Wrath (unless you get the charge)
3 D weapon hits
Stomp attack

With repentia, the HoW kills 1, D weapon probably 1 or 2, and the stomp potentially kills 6-7. That's the squad gone.

Stomp is what will kill the hordes, but Stomp is AP4, so the best unit to hold off the Knight for a while is 3+ Saves.
And correct me here, but aren't Sisters the only 3+ rerollable save? (Priest)

Repentia can kill the knight, battle sisters can't.

sfshilo - a storm bolter is 5 points for an extra shot at long range, since you've got a priest and flamers, aren't you trying to get into short range anyway? Just seems to me that you're better off taking an extra Sister instead of two storm Bolters.

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Ovion wrote:
Curiously enough, I think Repentia might be a worthy counter for Knights, especially against a Knight-Only list.

The StrD weapons are only about as deadly as any other against them, and they hit with good old Eviscerators.

Definately viable as a counter-charge unit, possibly store them in a rhino?

Standard Sisters, even without priest are so much better:

The knight has 3 attacks that kill you:
S10 Hammer of Wrath (unless you get the charge)
3 D weapon hits
Stomp attack

With repentia, the HoW kills 1, D weapon probably 1 or 2, and the stomp potentially kills 6-7. That's the squad gone.

Stomp is what will kill the hordes, but Stomp is AP4, so the best unit to hold off the Knight for a while is 3+ Saves.
And correct me here, but aren't Sisters the only 3+ rerollable save? (Priest)

You can't make regular attacks AND stomp.
It's one or the other.

Standard Sisters can tarpit it sure, but they can't even scratch the paint on the AV13 they have to deal with in CC.


If it charges THEM, then sure, that's probably 1 dead. I'll try and avoid the Mistress buying it so she can tank some Stomp if need be.
If it uses the D weapon, that's 1-3 dead, this is a good result. We'll assume the average of 2 though.

Chances are, it won't be using the D-Weapon to try and wipe out the entire squad, which is even better for us, as that leaves a full EIGHT repentia to strike at the same time as it if it charged them:
16 attacks, hitting on 4's will mean 8 hits, 1.33 glances and 3.33 pens (4.66HP so far), then 1/3 of those pens should be an Explodes, causing +2HP damage, for a total of 6.66 HP damage and 1 dead knight.


In turn, the Stomp is likely to have 2 small templates and hit 4 Repentia each, and cause 5.556 wounds.
The Superior can soak 3 of those wounds (save 2, die 1), leaving 2 to probably die with only a 6+ save to save them.
1 dead titan, 4 dead Repentia, 1 Dead Superior, when IT, charged THEM.

If it DID use the D-Weapon, then you'll only get 6 left for 12 attacks, so 1 glance and 2.5 pens (3.5), you MIGHT get an Explodes for another 1-3 HP, but chances are it'll still be alive.
And locked in combat.
And then you get to make a further 6-10 attacks in the next assault phase and destroy it.
3-5 Repentia left in this case, titan still dead.


And if the Repentia charge, at full strength - 36 attacks, 18 hits, 3 glances, 7.5 pens, 2.5 explodes for a further 5 HP damage, AKA - 15.5 HP damage. (If the Titan goes for StrD instead of Stomping they'll still do 12.16 HP damage).

3-4 charging Repentia is enough to kill a Knight.
5-6 to be sure incase it StrDs you instead of stomping.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Michael wrote:
Playing a 600pt game against DE tomorrow, anyone got some general advice? I know he's always runs a few raiders and/or venoms, so an exorcist is a must against his AV11 vehicles. Since it's a small game, I'll run two BSS with double melta instead of the usual F/HF, and go without dominions for a change. I was thinking of taking Celestine with seraphim bodyguard to deal with his infantry.

Raiders and Venoms are AV10.
Ravagers 11.

Take 2 Exorcists, 2 BSS with Heavy Bolters, and maybe Celestine to jump about on her own murdering stuff? Any remaining points fill with more BSS (and Heavy Bolters as able).

Focus fire on the transports first, ravagers second, and troops third, and that should cover it.

 Ovion wrote:
You can't make regular attacks AND stomp. It's one or the other.

Nope:

“ The Stomp attack is made in addition to the Super-heavy Walker’s normal attacks.”
Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Warhammer 40,000: Escalation (eBook Edition).” iBooks. https://itun.es/us/GGzVT.l

Of course, that the Knight can use its Destroyer attacks on individual infantry in addition to Stomping them doesn't make it a good idea.

At least the stomp is at I1, right? So the repenting would get off a round of attacks. (The explosion when it does will kill them anyway, so who cares about the stomp.)

But really as a sisters army if you're meleeing a knight something has gone wrong. Knights aren't particularly immune to massed melta fire from multiple directions like a C'Tan, also their very limited ranged RoF is not scary to an army without expensive units standing around unprotected.

Huh, I stand corrected, but that's still only +2 dead, so it should generally be enough.

You'd also need 12-15 Meltas to down a Knight in 1 round, vs 1 squad of Repentia.

155pts vs 570pts+
120-150pts just in meltaguns, 150-180+ in sisters holding them, then the 300+pts of sisters that have to go with em if taking as troops.

 Ovion wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Ovion wrote:
Curiously enough, I think Repentia might be a worthy counter for Knights, especially against a Knight-Only list.

The StrD weapons are only about as deadly as any other against them, and they hit with good old Eviscerators.

Definately viable as a counter-charge unit, possibly store them in a rhino?

Standard Sisters, even without priest are so much better:

The knight has 3 attacks that kill you:
S10 Hammer of Wrath (unless you get the charge)
3 D weapon hits
Stomp attack

With repentia, the HoW kills 1, D weapon probably 1 or 2, and the stomp potentially kills 6-7. That's the squad gone.

Stomp is what will kill the hordes, but Stomp is AP4, so the best unit to hold off the Knight for a while is 3+ Saves.
And correct me here, but aren't Sisters the only 3+ rerollable save? (Priest)

You can't make regular attacks AND stomp.
It's one or the other.

Standard Sisters can tarpit it sure, but they can't even scratch the paint on the AV13 they have to deal with in CC.


If it charges THEM, then sure, that's probably 1 dead. I'll try and avoid the Mistress buying it so she can tank some Stomp if need be.
If it uses the D weapon, that's 1-3 dead, this is a good result. We'll assume the average of 2 though.

Chances are, it won't be using the D-Weapon to try and wipe out the entire squad, which is even better for us, as that leaves a full EIGHT repentia to strike at the same time as it if it charged them:
16 attacks, hitting on 4's will mean 8 hits, 1.33 glances and 3.33 pens (4.66HP so far), then 1/3 of those pens should be an Explodes, causing +2HP damage, for a total of 6.66 HP damage and 1 dead knight.


In turn, the Stomp is likely to have 2 small templates and hit 4 Repentia each, and cause 5.556 wounds.
The Superior can soak 3 of those wounds (save 2, die 1), leaving 2 to probably die with only a 6+ save to save them.
1 dead titan, 4 dead Repentia, 1 Dead Superior, when IT, charged THEM.

If it DID use the D-Weapon, then you'll only get 6 left for 12 attacks, so 1 glance and 2.5 pens (3.5), you MIGHT get an Explodes for another 1-3 HP, but chances are it'll still be alive.
And locked in combat.
And then you get to make a further 6-10 attacks in the next assault phase and destroy it.
3-5 Repentia left in this case, titan still dead.


And if the Repentia charge, at full strength - 36 attacks, 18 hits, 3 glances, 7.5 pens, 2.5 explodes for a further 5 HP damage, AKA - 15.5 HP damage. (If the Titan goes for StrD instead of Stomping they'll still do 12.16 HP damage).

3-4 charging Repentia is enough to kill a Knight.
5-6 to be sure incase it StrDs you instead of stomping.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Michael wrote:
Playing a 600pt game against DE tomorrow, anyone got some general advice? I know he's always runs a few raiders and/or venoms, so an exorcist is a must against his AV11 vehicles. Since it's a small game, I'll run two BSS with double melta instead of the usual F/HF, and go without dominions for a change. I was thinking of taking Celestine with seraphim bodyguard to deal with his infantry.

Raiders and Venoms are AV10.
Ravagers 11.

Take 2 Exorcists, 2 BSS with Heavy Bolters, and maybe Celestine to jump about on her own murdering stuff? Any remaining points fill with more BSS (and Heavy Bolters as able).

Focus fire on the transports first, ravagers second, and troops third, and that should cover it.

Apart from the stomp adding on kills, you are right, they would be very good at it.

However i would go for: tarpit with a 10 sisters squad so that you get the Repentia on the charge (and 36 attacks) and a definite Knight kill, but then comes the D/10/6 Template =D

I would suggest Exorcisting it with help of melta guns scouting, tho get that template in enemy lines rather than your deployment zone...

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Repentia can kill the knight, battle sisters can't.

sfshilo - a storm bolter is 5 points for an extra shot at long range, since you've got a priest and flamers, aren't you trying to get into short range anyway? Just seems to me that you're better off taking an extra Sister instead of two storm Bolters.

No, the priest is for fearless, 4++, and war hymns.

A 6 person squad isn't going to kill much assaulting, but they are a great speed bump, and a good objective holder. So I'm either getting assaulted after they blow up my tank. (Priest keeps them from pinning and makes them hard to kill with rerollable saves) Or I'm sitting on objectives hitting people at range.

Another flame thrower makes that unit strictly defensive and close range, a melta has the same problem and 5 points more. Dunno, just my preference to have that extra bolter shot on a charge or holding an objective.

 Ovion wrote:
Huh, I stand corrected, but that's still only +2 dead, so it should generally be enough.

You'd also need 12-15 Meltas to down a Knight in 1 round, vs 1 squad of Repentia.

155pts vs 570pts+
120-150pts just in meltaguns, 150-180+ in sisters holding them, then the 300+pts of sisters that have to go with em if taking as troops.

Your estimates seem high, are you assuming they all shoot at the shielded side? If you have multiple units and you're trying to space them out for avoiding templates there's no reason to not try to hit 2-3 facings.

Mavnas wrote:

 Ovion wrote:
Huh, I stand corrected, but that's still only +2 dead, so it should generally be enough.

You'd also need 12-15 Meltas to down a Knight in 1 round, vs 1 squad of Repentia.

155pts vs 570pts+
120-150pts just in meltaguns, 150-180+ in sisters holding them, then the 300+pts of sisters that have to go with em if taking as troops.

Your estimates seem high, are you assuming they all shoot at the shielded side? If you have multiple units and you're trying to space them out for avoiding templates there's no reason to not try to hit 2-3 facings.

Have to assume the shielded side, as if there's an instance where you can't surround it, you'll need it.

I was also assuming the side/rear armour to be nice.
BUT, specifics:

AV13 (front)
With 4+*
Outside of Melta Range: 36 Shots > 24 hits > 2 glances, 2 pens (4 HP), 1.3 explodes (+2HP) > Dead Knight
Inside Melta Range: 15 Shots > 10 hits > 0.5 glances, 3.6 pens (4.1 HP), 1.9 explodes (+2/4HP) > Dead Knight

Without 4+*
Outside of Melta Range: 18 Shots > 12 hits > 2 glances, 2 pens (4 HP), 1.3 explodes (+2HP) > Dead Knight
Inside Melta Range: 8 Shots > 5.3 hits > 0.6 glances, 3.8 pens (4.4 HP), 2 explodes (+4HP) > Dead Knight
- Alt (less reliable): 6 Shots > 4 hits > 0.4 glances, 2.9 pens (3.3 HP), 1.5 explodes (+3HP) > Dead Knight

AV12 (side/rear)
With 4+*
Outside of Melta Range: 24 Shots > 16 hits > 1.3 glances, 2.7 pens (4 HP), 1.6 explodes (+3HP) > Dead Knight
Inside Melta Range: 12 Shots > 8 hits > 0.3 glances, 3.3 pens (3.6 HP), 1.7 explodes (+3HP) > Dead Knight

Without 4+*
Outside of Melta Range: 12 Shots > 8 hits > 1.3 glances, 2.7 pens (4 HP), 1.6 explodes (+3HP) > Dead Knight
Inside Melta Range: 6 Shots > 4 hits > 0.3 glances, 3.3 pens (3.6 HP), 1.7 explodes (+3HP) > Dead Knight

So it could be as few as 6 needed, but as many as 36.

You're reliably probably going to want at least 12-15, so that you can melta it with the shield going.

Hey guys... i'm considering starting a small force of sisters as i got a friend offering me a bunch of stuff..so was thinking...

at what point range would i be looking at if i was taking

2x groups of 10 sisters with a (heavy weapon)
superior with them?

led by a cannoness

how many points would i have around then? i'm thinking of allying them to my Space marine force and it would be cool to know ^^

Or as a main army for a detachement of knights or the other way around.

You're looking at around 325pts with 1 10pt weapon on each BSS squad and no upgrades.

So probably could be up to 350-400 without too much trouble.

Grab an Exorcist to go with it and you're up to 400-450.

- edited for screwed up maths.

i'm grabbing the Sisters digital codex now.. so i can have a better read at what units i should get but any recomendations for wich spec weps to have for the units?

You're looking at about 365 points there give or take depending on upgrades. (325 minimum for 20 sisters,cannoness, 2 heavy weapons)

Realistically though, sisters can take a special and a heavy weapon in a squad of 5. Taking a single weapon upgrade in a squad of 10 is kind of meh?

Mavnas wrote:
You're looking at about 365 points there give or take depending on upgrades. (325 minimum for 20 sisters,cannoness, 2 heavy weapons)

Realistically though, sisters can take a special and a heavy weapon in a squad of 5. Taking a single weapon upgrade in a squad of 10 is kind of meh?

Wel i'm planning to use them as allies first just for fluff reasons in a campaign..

so only two troops allowed.. but i can have 1 spec wep and 1 heavy then ey? any recomendations as a all commer wep?

I think one of the more common setups is flamer/heavy flamer. I intend to experiment with 2x melta gun.

Mavnas wrote:
I think one of the more common setups is flamer/heavy flamer. I intend to experiment with 2x melta gun.

I usually find that in smaller point totals, where you can't afford to get dominions, meltaguns are a really decent substitute. When you take more than, say, 500-600 points worth of allies, get a dominion squad instead and kit the BSS out with F/HF.

I'm still fond of kitting out Battle Sisters with one meltagun and one heavy flamer so they're able to deal with either vehicles or infantry...maybe that's just making them jack of all trades, master of none, though.

 SisterSydney wrote:
I'm still fond of kitting out Battle Sisters with one meltagun and one heavy flamer so they're able to deal with either vehicles or infantry...maybe that's just making them jack of all trades, master of none, though.

I did the math at some point and remember thinking that Melta guns are superior vs MEQ infantry.

2/3 * 5/6 = 5/9 marines killed vs.
2/3 * 1/3 = 2/9 marines killed per hit

So you'd have to hit 3 each time for it to be better to use the flamer. Also the melta gun has better range. The flamers also require careful positioning. They fare better vs targets in cover assuming the cover doesn't prevent you from hitting multiple guys.

Of course on overwatch the flamer wins hands down unless you're being charged by some T9 thing... But if you're being charged by a transcendent C'Tan, your BSS special weapon choices may be the least of your concerns.

So really flamer isn't the anti-infantry choice, it's the anti-horde choice. The regular flamer needs to hit 3.33 targets to come out better against MEQ.

sfshilo wrote: -snip-
Another flame thrower makes that unit strictly defensive and close range, a melta has the same problem and 5 points more. Dunno, just my preference to have that extra bolter shot on a charge or holding an objective.

Just cut down for space. I see this mistake a lot... why do flamers limit them to being defencive? You don't need to hold your objective if you can force him off his, and you only need one more than him to win. You're best off within 12" of him anyway to get rapid fire bonuses.

phatonic wrote:i'm grabbing the Sisters digital codex now.. so i can have a better read at what units i should get but any recomendations for wich spec weps to have for the units?

Basically, anything but storm bolters and multi-meltas!

As a small allied detachment, I'd go for dual meltas or dual flamers to cover whichever hole is in your main list (anti-horde or anti-elite/tank). Flamer/Heavy Flamer is a good combination, but Flamer/Flamer is a little cheaper and still effective.

My advice is to use minimum size Sisters squads to speed your access to Dominions and/or Exorcists, but massive blob squads of Sisters are scarily effective at anti-infantry duties. I've had units of 20 battle sisters with dual meltaguns wipe our Chaos Terminator squads led by Typhus before now.

I just don't see bolters as being that effective. It takes 9 shots on average to kill a marine. That's a min squad's full shots at bonus shot range. Then again I'm at 100+ hours of painting my sisters and about 10 of actually getting games in. I'm hoping to fix that later this month.

Are you counting the Act of Faith that gives Preferred Enemy there? It's once or twice per game, depending on whether you pay 10 points for a simulacrum, but that can add significant brutality on demand.

Ah, true. I guess with 20 that would matter more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, I just had some interesting thoughts about the new imperial knights codex and how one would counter them. I'm starting to wonder if shooting at them isn't the wrong way to go about things.

Think about it. If a BSS squad charges a knight. They lose on average 2 to the sword (at most 3) and an average of 1 to the stomps as long as you thin them out properly when removing casualties (at most 3, but that's incredibly unlikely). Even at 4 lost per assault phase, this would allow a 9 sister squad with priest where both the priest and the superior have melta bombs 4 attacks with melta bombs.

Each melta bomb attack (initially) has a 3/4th chance to hit with 13/18ths chance to remove 1 HP and 7/24ths chance to remove D3 more. .722 = .98 average HP of damage. About 2/3rd of an HP on subsequent turns. So on average, you'd expect this fight to result in the knight being tied up a turn and a half and lose 4 HP in the process. (Ideally though, you'd want the priest to be stomped at the end of his turn the voluntarily fail the morale test so that on your second turn all those units that took advantage of the knight being tied down to flank him can open fire from multiple angles.)

A 20 sister blob with both a priest and SS with melta bombs should just be able to kill it without any outside help, and an enemy who is bad at math might spare you the trouble of careful maneuvering and deliver the knight straight into your squad.

Obviously if his stomps start covering more than one model the math gets worse for you, but then the priest could also be giving the sisters the chance to reroll armor vs. those stomps... so that kind of evens out?

I've started doing stuff like this

Saint Celestine

5 BSS Flamer, H. Flamer MM Immolator
5 BSS Flamer, H. Flamer MM Immolator
5 BSS Flamer, H. Flamer MM Immolator
5 BSS Flamer, H. Flamer MM Immolator

5 Dominons 4XMelta, Combi melta, Repressor
5 Dominons 4XMelta, Combi melta, Repressor
7 Seraphim, P.Pistol, 2 Twin hand Flamers

Exorcist
Exorcist
Avenger strike fighter W/Autocannons

Pretty good list, but i don't like the 5BSS squads, it's like Marine combat squads: each failed armor save is a chance to run.

Maybe i just like my 10-girl squads...

You mean Seraphim, Celtic, not Celestians.

IF only we had out fire points, then the 5 BSS would be good...

That said, using them as suicide squads is quite effective.

Fixed. Haha. I've found that the Repressors, Exorcists and the Avenger gives the opponent too many targets to focus on the 5 girl squads camped in Immolators.

Also, that gives me points left over, I can add priests or Inquisition or what-have-you to the rest of the army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alternately, I like doing a big squad of inquisitorial henchmen with flamers and a few priests/Inquisitors/Coatz to recreate that Redemptionist vibe from the 'Chapter approved' codex.

How about instead of fighting against Knights, fighting WITH them? I am setting up this 2000 point list to start with:

HQ 125 pts
Canoness, Book of Saint Lucius (Warlord – Strategic Traits)
Inquisitor, Divination, Force Sword

Troops 750 pts
6 units of 5x Sisters, 1x Flamer, Immolator with MM

Heavy 375 pts
3x Exorcist

Allied Detachment 750 pts
2x Knight Paladins

That's 6 MM Immolators, 3 Exorcists, 2 Knight Paladins, and an Inquisitor twin-linking. I think it's a rounded list with plenty of Str8 AP1 in the tanks, and blob control or MC control with the Knights.

Is there anything anywhere that talks about the Sisters joining forces with Knights? I'd like to have a themed army with Knights and Sisters bearing the same colors and blending the Knights' Heraldry to go along with the Sisters.

 davidgr33n wrote:
Is there anything anywhere that talks about the Sisters joining forces with Knights? I'd like to have a themed army with Knights and Sisters bearing the same colors and blending the Knights' Heraldry to go along with the Sisters.

Freeblades. That's the fluffy explanation for nearly every allied detachment of knights. I though I read somewhere that they aren't directly ruled by the Imperium like everyone else, so it's unlikely they worship the Emperor as a god, if at all. If you want to have knightly allies, either convert them and say they are the AS' own engines, or write them in as freeblade allies.

The Imperium is a huge and heterogenous place -- even if most Knight Worlds don't worship the Emperor, I'm sure there are plenty that do, or that even pledge fealty directly to the Ecclesiarchy.

Also, I homebrewed this deep-striking Sororitas Knight with wings that only your closest friends would be willing to play against.

While Sisters are unlikely to have their own Knight due to the structure of the organisation, Mercs hired, especially on retainer / long contract will often repaint in the colours / uniforms of the organisation they are with for some coherency (and so they're not picked out in the crowd)

Agreed*. Knight Houses pledged to the Ecclesiarchy and affiliated for centuries with a particular Order Militant, even more so. You could do some very interesting quartered heraldry with the Sororitas Order's colors & insignia on part of the Knight and its native House's on the other.

* When I said "Sororitas Knight," I really meant "Knight for the Codex:Adepta Sororitas army list," not part of the organization proper -- rather like battle conclaves, priests, etc. being part of the army but not of the Sisterhood itself.

I could totally see a bunch of knight pilots being super faithful to the Emperor and pledging themselves to the Sisters cause.

Sort of how marines don't worship the Emperor as a god but the Black Templar's do.

The Imperium is a big place there are exceptions to everything.

Thanks for the ideas, it will look really cool to have Knights next to Sisters, with the Knights bearing banners and iconography showing their "allegiance" to the Ecclesiarchy.

On a side note, I've been toying with the idea of swapping an Exorcist with the Avenger Strike Fighter for the anti-air component my list needs. A year ago I wouldn't have even considered this as the Avenger isn't a part of mainstream 40k, but with all the changes that have happened to the game since our Codex came out, I think almost anything goes now. So does anyone else use the Avenger as part of their army? Do you get any "grief" from other players for using it? Also, is the Avenger even considered competitive? I know it's no Vendetta, but other than its weak armor it looks sturdy enough. Thoughts?

Also on Avengers: Is there a (legal) way to get the damned rules without shelling out a couple million dollars for Aeronautica? It's not in Death from the Skies or the new Sisters codex or anywhere else I can find.

And my post with pics got deleted for some mysterious reason.

One of the Knight Houses (stormshroud?) members have the tradition of taking on the heraldry of particularly honored forces that they fight in support of, they are even known to attach themselves for considerable periods to those units. Basically becoming a freeblade that when they do return to the House, will be honored because of their attachment to such an honorable force. Certainly wouldn't be hard to see them doing so with the Adepta Sororitas.

Besides, they have a fracking Melta Battle Cannon!!!

My reply got removed too. O_o

- I was saying that I think the Avenger Rules are in IA2.2.
Or not... I'm sure there was something more recent than IA:A though.

IA: Aeronautica has the latest rules for the ones that Sisters can take.

Fall of Orpheus has rules for using them as an Imperial Navy Squadron for the FW Army List in that book.

Will there be a new version of Aeronautica soonish? I'd hate to spend lots on something that might become obsolete.

No idea.

 Shandara wrote:
IA: Aeronautica has the latest rules for the ones that Sisters can take.

Fall of Orpheus has rules for using them as an Imperial Navy Squadron for the FW Army List in that book.

Just double checking, but IA: Aeronautica does have 3HP right?

Aeronautica has 2HP.

 sfshilo wrote:
Taking this to Dark Star GT in Minneapolis.

Uriah

3x squads of five Battle Sisters with flamer, storm bolter, and plasma pistol. Priest in each squad. Multi melta immolator with storm bolter

One squad of thirteen with combi flamer, two flamers, heavy flamer immolator. Priest attached with book.

Melta dominion squad with combi melta and immolator with multi melta.

Nine seraphims with two sets of hand flamers.

Exorcist with storm bolter.

Hereticus inquisiter with null rod and inferno pistol in power armour. Has the book with scout on turn one. Three servo skulls.

Three squads of five psykers. Chimera with two heavy bolters with psybolt ammo.

Aegis defense line.

I have had alot of luck with this list. I guess I will find out this weekend how much.
My gallery has some photos, I will be updating with more

Went 2-2-1, tie and one of the losses was 100% my fault, totally brain farted this year. Other loss was a daemon/csm beast spam with a crap ton of LOS blocking and a kill point mission. (Yeah, it was that bad)

Changes to this list...

I would remove on of the MSU troop squads and put in another dominion foot squad with a priest and anti infantry (flamers or storm bolters) to outflank with.

This army can damn near fight anything in CC. Uriah IMO is mandatory, pair him with any variety of sisters and another priest and watch them go to town.

Having one Exorcist with those psykers did what I thought, they ignored it and went after the chimeras.

SOOO much firepower, I was pooring 40+ hits a turn into opponents when all my stuff was on the table.

Seraphams with a priest are my dark horse, they just do alot for the points.

Thinking of trying this for forthcoming local tourney - 1500pts, limited Highlander (can duplicate troops and Dedicated Transports)

Cannoness, Mantle, Combi-Melta
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, 3 Servo Skulls, Plasma Syphon, Divination
3 Squads of 5 Sisters with Meltagun and flamer, Immolator with MM,
Exorcist with Storm Bolter,
5 Dominons with 2 Meltas, Immolator with MM
Retirbutors with 2 Hv Bolters, 1 MM, Simulacrum, Immolator with MM
Ageis With Quad Gun
Knight Errent.

thoughts?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Thinking of trying this for forthcoming local tourney - 1500pts, limited Highlander (can duplicate troops and Dedicated Transports)

Cannoness, Mantle, Combi-Melta
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, 3 Servo Skulls, Plasma Syphon, Divination
3 Squads of 5 Sisters with Meltagun and flamer, Immolator with MM,
Exorcist with Storm Bolter,
5 Dominons with 2 Meltas, Immolator with MM
Retirbutors with 2 Hv Bolters, 1 MM, Simulacrum, Immolator with MM
Ageis With Quad Gun
Knight Errent.

thoughts?

Do you really mean flamer or heavy flamer in those sister squads? I see also you take a few special squads without their full complement of special/heavy weapons. Cannoness gets no invuln save? Your inquisitor has no vehicle to ride in to get him to a place where his plasma siphon can matter.

Hmm yes forgot the Rosarius - opps

I was thinking about the Inquisitor with the Retributors?

Not sure what to drop to get more weapons?

Sadly, allied troops can never use eachother's transports. So the inquisitor is somewhat stuck on foot, also that squad is full of heavy weapons. Moving it means a lot of snap firing.

There's two ways to go. You could lose that squads transport and finance the special weapons that way then attach the inquisitor to it.

You could also drop the retributors entirely, replace them with three servitors (you can even keep the same special weapons that they had) in a chimera with psybolt ammo and 2 heavy bolters. Now the inquisitor has a ride, but again, you don't really want to move a heavy weapons squad unless you have to.

One thought though retributors + immolator + 3 special weapons and a simulacrum = 160 points.

Chimera + psybolt ammo + 3 servitors = 90 points.

You could pick up a jokaero weaponsmith for 35 points, and still have 35 left over for a rosarius and 2 special weapons for the dominions. The Jokaero is a second MM or lascannon and you have a chance to get rending all the time (or 12" extra inches of shooting).

Sfsbilo: Seraphim with a priest? How does he keep up with jump troops?

I'm a little more confused about the squad of thirteen with an immolator. Don't squads have to deploy inside their dedicated transports?

Mavnas wrote:
I'm a little more confused about the squad of thirteen with an immolator. Don't squads have to deploy inside their dedicated transports?

Nope :-)

No.

Only the squad bought with the Dedicated Transport may start inside it, but it doesn't have to.

Of course being 13 large it can't start in it, so it starts empty.

 Ovion wrote:
Aeronautica has 2HP.

So why is the "most recent" 3HP, it's the Guard one right? (Steel legion i think?) which book is that?

So... I could in fact take the Reclusiam Command Squad Dataslate and put them all on bikes and just have a Razorback hanging around... (not that freeing up an allies slot is really all that useful once you've burned that many points).

Mavnas wrote:
Sadly, allied troops can never use eachother's transports. So the inquisitor is somewhat stuck on foot, also that squad is full of heavy weapons. Moving it means a lot of snap firing.

There's two ways to go. You could lose that squads transport and finance the special weapons that way then attach the inquisitor to it.

You could also drop the retributors entirely, replace them with three servitors (you can even keep the same special weapons that they had) in a chimera with psybolt ammo and 2 heavy bolters. Now the inquisitor has a ride, but again, you don't really want to move a heavy weapons squad unless you have to.

One thought though retributors + immolator + 3 special weapons and a simulacrum = 160 points.

Chimera + psybolt ammo + 3 servitors = 90 points.

You could pick up a jokaero weaponsmith for 35 points, and still have 35 left over for a rosarius and 2 special weapons for the dominions. The Jokaero is a second MM or lascannon and you have a chance to get rending all the time (or 12" extra inches of shooting).

thanks, I was thinking about the Retibutors, the Inquisitor and the Exorcist being based at the Ageis Defence line, the immolator is just to give me the extra one not for them to use.......

Sadly I don't currently have the gun servitor models or a Chimera but may have to consider it..................

Oh... You could just take an extra retributive with MM and use the points you save to buy the other stuff.

So does anyone else use the Avenger as part of their army? Do you get any "grief" from other players for using it? Also, is the Avenger even considered competitive? I know it's no Vendetta, but other than its weak armor it looks sturdy enough. Thoughts?

I like it, it provides good longer range anti armour and infantry and if you take missile launchers it does provide some anti tank support as well. I do wish it was a fast attack choice instead of a heavy. I have considered allying IG to fit that into my list while keeping both exorcists and the retributor squad.

Also on the forgeworld download page there is a pdf to the Death Korps Of Krieg list. The stats for the Avenger is in there with the proper HP (2). It doesn't have the listing to state its for Sisters Of Battle and Imperial Guard, but at least it gives you the stats, point costs and options.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Sfsbilo: Seraphim with a priest? How does he keep up with jump troops?

Think about your typical game. You start 2 feet apart from each other usually.

You only need to keep cohesion.

Honestly the best way I used was to hop up the priest in a transport from another squad for a turn, then jumped him out at mid table. The dominions worked well for this.

So something like this:
Turn one, burn everything up full speed up the table.
Turn two, deploy troops and join priest of serapham. (You can't charge, but usually with the two flamer loadout you want them to charge you for more shots)
Turn three, slingshot the priest into combat by trailing 1-2 seraphams to keep cohesion. You don't get the jump back assault, but you are usually moving a foot anyway to get into solid charge range.

Did this in 3 of my games rather easily. Priest give them rerolls to wound, which with MC's and krak grenades paired with the priests zealot and the seraphams invuln reroll ties them up pretty well. Squad of 9 throws down 27 attacks with reroll to hit and wound, not including the priest.

Isn't the ASF squishy with only 2 hp and 10 side armor?

Three in the last update.

 pretre wrote:
Three in the last update.

Where can that update be found then? That seems to be the source of all the confusion...

Also, it can only fire 4 of its guns at full BS right? Out of 8 possible weapons?

Brother Michael wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Three in the last update.

Where can that update be found then? That seems to be the source of all the confusion...

It is in Imperial Armour Volume 12: Fall of Orpheus..

And it's specifically a new unit entry for the IG Army List in that book and not available for Sisters. Whether it means that it supersedes the Aeronautica entry.. well that depends on your gaming environment.

Vendettas are FA, right? So you could bring both via IG allies if people didn't let your sisters bring one?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sfshilo wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
Sfsbilo: Seraphim with a priest? How does he keep up with jump troops?

Think about your typical game. You start 2 feet apart from each other usually.

You only need to keep cohesion.

Honestly the best way I used was to hop up the priest in a transport from another squad for a turn, then jumped him out at mid table. The dominions worked well for this.

So something like this:
Turn one, burn everything up full speed up the table.
Turn two, deploy troops and join priest of serapham. (You can't charge, but usually with the two flamer loadout you want them to charge you for more shots)
Turn three, slingshot the priest into combat by trailing 1-2 seraphams to keep cohesion. You don't get the jump back assault, but you are usually moving a foot anyway to get into solid charge range.

Did this in 3 of my games rather easily. Priest give them rerolls to wound, which with MC's and krak grenades paired with the priests zealot and the seraphams invuln reroll ties them up pretty well. Squad of 9 throws down 27 attacks with reroll to hit and wound, not including the priest.

Personally, I'd miss the ability to threaten a unit over 2 feet away with a 3d6 Hit and Run + 12" move (both of which ignore terrain and enemy models), but then again I had 5 seraphim with two pairs of inferno pistols which needed a lot of help getting into range, but were very deadly any time they actually fired. (So deadly in fact, that I tend to lose 1-2 seraphim every time I blow up a vehicle )

 Shandara wrote:

Brother Michael wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Three in the last update.

Where can that update be found then? That seems to be the source of all the confusion...

It is in Imperial Armour Volume 12: Fall of Orpheus..

And it's specifically a new unit entry for the IG Army List in that book and not available for Sisters. Whether it means that it supersedes the Aeronautica entry.. well that depends on your gaming environment.

Ah, it does all make sense to me now too =P
Surely it's "the same" Avenger though right? so most recent profile applies? I'll send an email to FW to see (for personal answer).

In terms of how it is on the battlefield:
Most sisters units are good against 4+, 5+ saves, and then Exorcists & melta good for 2+, vehicles.
The avenger fits extremely well in the 3+ section.
With 9 shots that hit on 2+, wound on 2+ and no saves of 3+, it's an amazing Squad killer. That 10-man marine squad on the back objective? gone.
The 10-man (more usually 5-man) Dev squad at the back of the table? wiped

That leaves thing like Exorcists to focus on more "meaty" targets, and your Troops and such free of having to cross to board to reach a target.

Speaking of Orpheus and tactics, this has been bugging me for a while:

Any ideas on how to deal with that tomb worm thing and the sentry pylon artillery? They drive me nuts (although I did manage to shoot the worm to death once using three squads and a lot of sixes -this was pre-update.)

Also it's an A-10 Warthog IN SPACE, which is just cool.

It is in Imperial Armour Volume 12: Fall of Orpheus..

And it's specifically a new unit entry for the IG Army List in that book and not available for Sisters. Whether it means that it supersedes the Aeronautica entry.. well that depends on your gaming environment.

Could it be a misprint in the book. I only say that because the points and options are the same in both books, however the HP is one more, but the entry for the thunderbolt is one less. Which leads me to believe its a misprint.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Also it's an A-10 Warthog IN SPACE, which is just cool.

Thats a cool idea - I wonder if there is a model thats about the same size?

Wait how does it hit on a 2+? Isn't it BS3?

Mavnas wrote:
Wait how does it hit on a 2+? Isn't it BS3?

iirc... it's twin-linked. Which isn't hitting on a 2+ but is pretty much the same thing!

No weapons on the Avenger are twin-linked. It is BS3 with the straffing run special rule making it BS4 against most targets.

Yeah, I think my problem is I want an air superiority fighter to deal with Hell Drakes.

 Madcat87 wrote:
No weapons on the Avenger are twin-linked. It is BS3 with the straffing run special rule making it BS4 against most targets.

Wait, what?

I really need to get the rules Right.... Up until now this is the Profile i have known:



Add Strafing run to that, and you are BS 5, so 2s to Hit.

I also notice it is indeed 2HP on here, although i have an older version of this where it was 3, even though the rest was exactly the same.

I am guessing this is not the correct profile then? I do not have any other book than IA2, which is irrelevant for this...

Damn.

That is infact wrong... and was never caught even in the last version of the book! D :
And isn't going to get fixed now :(
I may PM you something later though.

Apologies for that. (But if you've used one and no one has noticed, enjoy your bonus BS )

Ok, thanks for letting me know... i do know an owner of Aeronautica and was going to buy one myself in the near future.

I will also strive to at least get a look at all books and get a definite answer on this. (IA:Aeronautica; IA:12)

I also found this pretty picture:
http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/16/24/55/15/avenge11.jpg

Which, i guess, is what everyone else is playing (that has one)? (Aeronautica picture?)

Also as a side question:
What weapons do you use on the extra hardpoints, when playing your Avenger?

I do believe that the version in Imperial Armour Aeronautica is the same one in link that BlackTalos provided.

For extra weapons I usually take the missile launchers.

I suppose you mean the second picture? the one in the link?
Because i've been using the one in the spoiler, with BS 4....

I used to really like the hellfury missiles, but then realised they're Ordnance and would make everything else you have snap fire lol

Just received an email back from forgeworld

"Thank you for your email. There was a misprint in Imperial Armour Volume 12, the stats in Imperial Armour Aeronautica are correct with the Avenger having 2 HP and the Thunderbolt 3 HP."

Well... my Voss finally showed up from Forgeworld (obviously, i'll be running it as an ASF... just with a cooler model!) Gonna get some magnets so I can magnetize all the weapon options. Couple of questions for you all:

What is the best loadout?

Where can I get the bits to add on the Gatling gun and maybe some autocannons?

P.s. I ordered one of those alternative AS models from the Ukraine that someone posted a few pages ago. If anyone is interested, i'll get it painted up and take some pics alongside the GW models for comparisons.

I used IG Heavy Weapon Team leftovers for the autocannons.

I got the rotary cannon bits from this Ebay-seller:
http://stores.ebay.nl/Blood-and-Skulls-Industry?_rdc=1

Naturally FW sells this stuff too but it's mostly horrendously overpriced. It pays to be creative in this case.

Yeah, I used Sentinel missile launcher bits for my ASF. They fit rather well, too.

You converted the Voss into an Avenger? Not one I've heard before.

I converted mine from a Nephilim. ^^; I usually take autocannons on the wings, I find the extra shots and cheaper weapons worth the drop in S and AP.

So I tried out the following 2000 pt list this weekend.

Canoness, Book of Saint Lucius (Warlord – Strategic Traits)
6 units: 5x Sisters, 2x Flamer, Immolator with MM
2x Exorcist
Avenger Strike Fighter
2x Knight Paladins

Though it performed well overall going 3-1 (loss vs flying circus) I think the lack of anti-air is a big problem. Even were it 30 points cheaper, the Avenger Strike Fighter is too fragile with only 2HP and only 2 lascannons as the main anti-flyer armament. In one game vs SM it got blown out by Interceptor fire as it entered play. Sadly, Sisters do not have a lot of options in the AA department without paying over 200 points. So I am going back to my trusty Quad Gun as my main AA, hoping that the Knights-Exorcists-Immolators will be enough of an immediate threat to leave the Quad alone. Here's the new list:

Canoness (Warlord – Strategic Traits)
5 units: 5x Sisters, 2x Flamers, Immolator with MM; 5x Sisters
3x Exorcist
2x Knight Paladins
Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun

Any suggestions?

I normally post stuff here for you guys, so here you go.
Updated FoC

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Legions of the Damned are now their own main detachment thingy?

The whole FOC thing -- 1-2 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 0-3 each of Elite, Fast Attack, & Heavy Support, with any regard to how many points you put into each or how crazy rare the units you took were supposed to be -- was only justifiable as long as it was simple. Now it's almost completely useless as a means of game balance because we have allies and Inquisitors and Knights and Lords of War and god knows what fething else all over the place, and all FOC limits do is make you jump through legalistic hoops before you build whatever you damn want.

In some ways I like the freedom.

In others it makes me twitch a little...

I mean, I'm all for doing crazy gak, but they're pumping out so much, so fast (and mostly supporting Imperial forces), that the games not settled.

It's hard just to follow this stuff and the changes at the end of the day now.


As for the LotD, yes.
You can take 1-4 as a Primary (2-8 at 2k), then a further 1-4 (2-8) in their special detachment.

Problem being they have to take allies or they instantly lose, due to all LotD having to go into reserve at the start of the game, and no special rules to bring them in first turn.


I actually sort of want to do a 'Codex: Covens' or 'Codex: Dark Eldar Raiders / Mercs' book, that have their own special detachment and can go with whatever or be a primary and is just like...
1HQ, 0-1 Elites, 0-2 Troops, 0-1 Fast Attack, 0-1 Heavy Support, to represent certain elements that'll go with any army either for their own personal ideals, or money, etc.

Because why not.

I suspect at this point it's either blow up the FOC or throw out the non-standard codexes (Knights, Inquisition, etc. etc.), pick one.

I honestly prefer blowing up the FOC. Ok, you have to have at least 1 HQ, and you had better have some troops to score, but otherwise go cRazY.

 Ovion wrote:
I normally post stuff here for you guys, so here you go.
Updated FoC

Looks nice but you got the Inquisition wrong. You can take a Primary Inquisition detachment + an Inquisition detachment. It's Knights that can't do both as they can't ally with themselves.

 Ovion wrote:
I normally post stuff here for you guys, so here you go.
Updated FoC

Spoiler:

thank you thats a great resource

Loopstah wrote:

 Ovion wrote:
I normally post stuff here for you guys, so here you go.
Updated FoC

Looks nice but you got the Inquisition wrong. You can take a Primary Inquisition detachment + an Inquisition detachment. It's Knights that can't do both as they can't ally with themselves.

My problem with people saying Inquisition can take a Primary Inquisitioroial Detachment AND an Inquistorial Detachment is the wording of the entry:
"When you choose an army, Inquisitors may be taken as a primary detachment or as a special form of allied detachment known as an Inquisitorial detachment." <- Key word here OR.

"If you take Inquisitors as a primary detachment, use the Inquisitorial detachment Force Organisation chart instead of the primary detachment Force Organisation chart.
Alternatively, an army may include an Inquisitorial detachment in addition to any other detachments." <- Key word ALTERNATIVELY.

The other ones with the alternate Primary (LotD, Imperial Knights) and special detachment don't state that, and LotD specifically states you can take both.

I think we need a Codex: anti-air.

I like the detachment thing because I can ally my SOB with IF and have the inquisitor leading them. I like the fluff that can come from it.

 Ovion wrote:

Loopstah wrote:

 Ovion wrote:
I normally post stuff here for you guys, so here you go.
Updated FoC

Looks nice but you got the Inquisition wrong. You can take a Primary Inquisition detachment + an Inquisition detachment. It's Knights that can't do both as they can't ally with themselves.

My problem with people saying Inquisition can take a Primary Inquisitioroial Detachment AND an Inquistorial Detachment is the wording of the entry:
"When you choose an army, Inquisitors may be taken as a primary detachment or as a special form of allied detachment known as an Inquisitorial detachment." <- Key word here OR.

"If you take Inquisitors as a primary detachment, use the Inquisitorial detachment Force Organisation chart instead of the primary detachment Force Organisation chart.
Alternatively, an army may include an Inquisitorial detachment in addition to any other detachments." <- Key word ALTERNATIVELY.

The other ones with the alternate Primary (LotD, Imperial Knights) and special detachment don't state that, and LotD specifically states you can take both.

You missed the bit that says "You may take two inquisitorial detachments in the same army but one of these must be the primary detachment"

It's just below the bit you quoted. Plus inquisition can ally with themselves on their ally matrix, Knights don't appear on their own ally matrix at all.

Heheheh. Just bought $4k worth of SOB that are currently en-route. It'll probably take me a couple days, but there should be an abundance of cheap SOB on the swap shop soon for those looking to expand.

 pretre wrote:
Heheheh. Just bought $4k worth of SOB that are currently en-route. It'll probably take me a couple days, but there should be an abundance of cheap SOB on the swap shop soon for those looking to expand.

Wow... And I thought I went crazy last month.

Loopstah wrote:

 Ovion wrote:

Loopstah wrote:

 Ovion wrote:
I normally post stuff here for you guys, so here you go.
Updated FoC

Looks nice but you got the Inquisition wrong. You can take a Primary Inquisition detachment + an Inquisition detachment. It's Knights that can't do both as they can't ally with themselves.

My problem with people saying Inquisition can take a Primary Inquisitioroial Detachment AND an Inquistorial Detachment is the wording of the entry:
"When you choose an army, Inquisitors may be taken as a primary detachment or as a special form of allied detachment known as an Inquisitorial detachment." <- Key word here OR.

"If you take Inquisitors as a primary detachment, use the Inquisitorial detachment Force Organisation chart instead of the primary detachment Force Organisation chart.
Alternatively, an army may include an Inquisitorial detachment in addition to any other detachments." <- Key word ALTERNATIVELY.

The other ones with the alternate Primary (LotD, Imperial Knights) and special detachment don't state that, and LotD specifically states you can take both.

You missed the bit that says "You may take two inquisitorial detachments in the same army but one of these must be the primary detachment"

It's just below the bit you quoted. Plus inquisition can ally with themselves on their ally matrix, Knights don't appear on their own ally matrix at all.

It does not have that in mine.

 Ovion wrote:
It does not have that in mine.

Mavnas wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Heheheh. Just bought $4k worth of SOB that are currently en-route. It'll probably take me a couple days, but there should be an abundance of cheap SOB on the swap shop soon for those looking to expand.

Wow... And I thought I went crazy last month.

It is how I pay for my hobbies. Buying big lots and reselling them.

Well for 4k.. that's a lot of kilograms of Sisters..

 Shandara wrote:
Well for 4k.. that's a lot of kilograms of Sisters..

About 25 pounds or so.

Want some thoughts on a 2500 points list I just threw together. My troops never do much for me I've found so I decided to go MSU on them and focus on other strong points.

2 x Canoness - Cloak of St. Aspira on one of them

5 x Sister squads (5) - Flamer and Rhino

4 x Dominions (5) - Meltaguns x 4 in MM Immolators

6 x Exorcists

Coteaz (divination)

1 x Henchman (5) - 2 x Jokaero and 3 x Plasma Cannon Servitors

Bastion with Icarus Lascannon
Aegis Defense Line with Comms relay


Coteaz + Henchmen + Cannoness with cloak inside the bastion to man the lascannon and soak wounds which can be rerolled. Coteaz can start taking them once shes down to one left.

Other canoness rides with a sister squad to make that one troops a tad more resilient. One troops stays behind their ride, behind the defense line to get benefits of the comms relay. Aegis also provides a nice long line to spread the Exorcists and still get cover.

Troops are fragile, but I can keep a few of them in reserve if needed to protect them. I also think by turn 2 target saturation should be nasty enough to make the troops a lesser priority.

I love running Coteaz with the girls, I'd add in some plasma acolytes for fun. Prescience on plasma is great, and at 14 pts per they're a great bonus to a shooty, scoring unit.

EDIT: never mind, misread something with blurred early-am vision.

Here's my counts-as jakero. I dislike the idea of space monkeys. She's a hermit madwoman that's a savant with dangerous weapons. I still need a few more henchmen including a plasma cannon servitor, but I'm almost there.

Who doesn't love Idiot Savant Space Monkeys? Oh wait, I hate them, they're a ridiculous holdover from the Rogue Trader days of Obi Wan Clouseau, never mind.

Really? I love space monkeys, they're just ridiculous and when I field my bright orange ones people are highly amused, I guess I like the non grim darkness of my shooty little space monkeys

 SisterSydney wrote:
Who doesn't love Idiot Savant Space Monkeys? Oh wait, I hate them, they're a ridiculous holdover from the Rogue Trader days of Obi Wan Clouseau, never mind.

That's Obi-wan SHERLOCK Clousseau to you, sir

Love the use of the Empire arcane rifle doo-dah! Was thinking of using that as a hellrifle but that's seriously clever.

As an aside, I've finally finished my Dark Talon > Avenger conversion.

With a Goff Rok gig as the base.

What?





More pics in me blog, if you're interested.

 Ovion wrote:
I normally post stuff here for you guys, so here you go.
Updated FoC

Spoiler:

Link appears to be dead?

D

Oh yeah, I updated it and deleted the oldun!

And I'll go fix the other post too!

 inmygravenimage wrote:
Love the use of the Empire arcane rifle doo-dah! Was thinking of using that as a hellrifle but that's seriously clever.

As an aside, I've finally finished my Dark Talon > Avenger conversion.

With a Goff Rok gig as the base.

What?





More pics in me blog, if you're interested.

Are those the old RT Ork rocker minis? Wow.

 Ovion wrote:
Oh yeah, I updated it and deleted the oldun!

Spoiler:

And I'll go fix the other post too!

Thanks that's really useful.

Has anyone used LotD with Sisters? Are there any decent combos/synergies to be had?

D

What's the empire arcane rifle from?

Mavnas wrote:
What's the empire arcane rifle from?

How do you all use inquisitors and henchmen? I'm thinking of using them as fire support and rear guard.

 MWHistorian wrote:
How do you all use inquisitors and henchmen? I'm thinking of using them as fire support and rear guard.

Yep, pretty much.

I'm a fan of two squads of henchmen in a bastion with Coteaz and an Inquisitor. Plasma Cannons with perfect timing are hilarious.

 pretre wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
How do you all use inquisitors and henchmen? I'm thinking of using them as fire support and rear guard.

Yep, pretty much.

I'm a fan of two squads of henchmen in a bastion with Coteaz and an Inquisitor. Plasma Cannons with perfect timing are hilarious.

I'm thinking of using two "Jakero" and some heavy weapon servitors and Acolytes with plasma guns or something like that. Jakero+heavy weapons=fun times. My Sisters need a little more Dakka.

Jokers are just so expensive for what you get. I keep wanting to try them though. Let me know how it works.

In my experience, Jokaero are pretty damned worth it.
35pts nets you a Lascannon, Multi-Melta AND Heavy Flamer, with BS3 and a 5+*.
In addition, this can grant you multiple bonuses for the entire squad.
With 2, this is never going to be nothing. So you're looking at:
+12" range to shooting by the unit.
+1 Armour Save for the unit.
All Shooting by the unit is Rending.
Everything in the unit has a 5+*.
Or: 2 of the above.

With Coteaz's rule against reserves, this is pretty damn brutal, especially if you have Coteaz manning a weapon.

 pretre wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
How do you all use inquisitors and henchmen? I'm thinking of using them as fire support and rear guard.

Yep, pretty much.

I'm a fan of two squads of henchmen in a bastion with Coteaz and an Inquisitor. Plasma Cannons with perfect timing are hilarious.

What's the alternative to using Inquisitors & Henchman as rear guard/gunline? I can think of

- Having them in a Vendetta to grab objectives and/or slam some key target with plasma/melta. High-risk, high-reward.

- Having them in a Land Raider (expensive!) as an assault unit... of S:3 T:3 models. (Well, ok, Assassins are S:4 and Daemonhosts --- snicker -- are S:4 T:4). Hmmm. This seems high-risk, medium-reward, and fething expensive. But the opportunity to unleash a Land Raider full of Daemonhosts on your enemy and roll one of the good results on their random powers table .... that could be pretty hilarious.

Inquisition gets Valks, not Vendettas.

 SisterSydney wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
How do you all use inquisitors and henchmen? I'm thinking of using them as fire support and rear guard.

Yep, pretty much.

I'm a fan of two squads of henchmen in a bastion with Coteaz and an Inquisitor. Plasma Cannons with perfect timing are hilarious.

What's the alternative to using Inquisitors & Henchman as rear guard/gunline? I can think of

- Having them in a Vendetta to grab objectives and/or slam some key target with plasma/melta. High-risk, high-reward.

- Having them in a Land Raider (expensive!) as an assault unit... of S:3 T:3 models. (Well, ok, Assassins are S:4 and Daemonhosts --- snicker -- are S:4 T:4). Hmmm. This seems high-risk, medium-reward, and fething expensive. But the opportunity to unleash a Land Raider full of Daemonhosts on your enemy and roll one of the good results on their random powers table .... that could be pretty hilarious.

I was toying with the idea of putting them in an Chimera with the psybolts and using them as an assault unit, but my Sisters could use a little more firepower and Jakero pumped shooty squad seemed to be a good choice. My Inquisitor will be using presience on them as well and I hope to get the extended range.

A fun tactic I tried last night: A 20-Sister blob, Uriah Jacobus, and a Xenos Inquisitor with ML1, Rad Grenades, and Psykotroke grenades. (I would have liked to include Coteaz for an extra roll on the Divination chart and one use of Hammerhand, but alas I did not have the points.)

Now, this was a game against Orks, but they kicked unholy ass. They killed two full squads of boys, a Big Mek with a KFF, a 1/3rd strength unit of Nobz (Which included a Painboy), and his Warboss. And they took like 5 casualties all game, tops.

Now, it's true that his list wasn't particularly optimized, and his tactics were fething awful, (He only did as well as he did because I made a huge tactical mistake and let his Warboss get into my backline with a bunch of Nobz, killing about 600 points of my Space Wolves. If I had played it smart his Warboss and Nobz would have been dead turn 2, but I, like an idiot, fired my 5 Plasma Cannons at Ork Boys.)

Every time I got inti assault, (Either by charging or being charged) I never took a single wound. Since Orks have such cruddy initiative and he often charged through terrain, I always hit first, with rerolls to hit and wound against T3 Boyz and Nobz. If I had had Coteaz, and therefore gotten Hammerhand, it would have been hilariously irrelevant because he never got to hit anyways.
(Oh, and when his Warboss charged? At the same time as his Nobz, 'Ard Boyz, and Mek? I rolled a 6 with my Psykotroke grenades and everyone excelt his 2 unarmed Nobz failed their Initiative test.)

 SisterSydney wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
How do you all use inquisitors and henchmen? I'm thinking of using them as fire support and rear guard.

Yep, pretty much.

I'm a fan of two squads of henchmen in a bastion with Coteaz and an Inquisitor. Plasma Cannons with perfect timing are hilarious.

What's the alternative to using Inquisitors & Henchman as rear guard/gunline? I can think of

- Having them in a Vendetta to grab objectives and/or slam some key target with plasma/melta. High-risk, high-reward.

- Having them in a Land Raider (expensive!) as an assault unit... of S:3 T:3 models. (Well, ok, Assassins are S:4 and Daemonhosts --- snicker -- are S:4 T:4). Hmmm. This seems high-risk, medium-reward, and fething expensive. But the opportunity to unleash a Land Raider full of Daemonhosts on your enemy and roll one of the good results on their random powers table .... that could be pretty hilarious.

Give DCAs a priest and Xenos inquisitor with Hammerhand and rad grenades and you get a unit whose greatest weakness is that they wipe out their opponents too fast and are vulnerable to shooting next turn.

In that setup DCAs against MEQ hit on a rerollable 3+ wound on a 2+ and get 4 attacks on the charge. 6 and a couple crusaders wipe out a 20 man MEQ blob on the initial charge. Against TEQ, only 1/6th as effective, but with the priest you can get reroll able 3++ from your crusaders.

+1 for Jokaeros. I like to run 2-3 in a unit with Coteaz casting presciene, some ablatative wound guys (4pt henchmen) and then either PC or HB servitors and possibly some plasma henchmen for fun. Its a great backfield unit and can put out a lot of hurt, and when the space monkeys give the plasma guns 36" range, winning.

So I modified my MSU sister list somewhat and played against a guard player at 2000 today.

My list ended up being:

Celestine
Jacobus

4 x BSS (5) - Flamer in Rhinos

2 x Dominions (5) - Metaguns x 4 in MM Immolators

3 x Exorcists

1 x Retributors (8) - Heavy Flamers x 4 and simulacrums

Coteaz

1 x henchmen (5) - Plasma servitors (3) and jokaeros (2)


Void Relay Network - 2 void shield generators at 3 shields and a promethium relay pipes.


By turn 5 I had lost a troop choice because they had to get out of their rhino which had immobilized itself, otherwise everything was alive full health.


My deployment was something like this.



/---------------\
[ ]..................[ ]

The top part being the relay pipes and the bottom the void shield generators which were exactly 12 inch between them as I needed some space to deploy. I had all troops but 1 in reserve and all exorcist in between generators as well as the rets, jacobus and celestine for counter charge purpose. Deployed Coteaz on a battlement on the right generator.

He did get through my left void shields a few times, but it would always take most of his big guns to get them down. He did kill a few of my rets afterwards, but never dented my exorcists since he had no firepower left for them by then.

There were a few weird scenarios that came up regarding void shields which we had to house rule on the spot since there was no way to find out how this would work but otherwise the above list performed extremely well.

Anything deep striking can be challenging, but coteaz makes this very dangerous so you can dictacte that somewhat.


The void shield generators I think make sisters extremely competitive. No longer do you have to go to them. Keep your troops in reserve and whether youre going first or second, it doesnt matter, your exorcists likely won't be touched on turn 1. If your opponent wants to get a chance at really taking them down, he will have to come to you and this play to our strength.

Yeah, in all the taking down knights threads, I was thinking how Void Shield generators would force the knights to come to you. Also the void shield would be pretty good against most fliers.

Mavnas wrote:
Yeah, in all the taking down knights threads, I was thinking how Void Shield generators would force the knights to come to you. Also the void shield would be pretty good against most fliers.

Good for defense. Maybe park an exo or two.
But are Doms in MM immo's good enough to take down a knight? Has anyone tried it yet?
Repentia would get insta-death-stomped. PE's probably wouldn't make it, but if they did, they might do some damage.
I'm adding a Jakero/plasma cannon servitor/inquisitor unit to by SOB for more added Anti-tank firepower in case my doms don't take the Knight out.

 MWHistorian wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
Yeah, in all the taking down knights threads, I was thinking how Void Shield generators would force the knights to come to you. Also the void shield would be pretty good against most fliers.

Good for defense. Maybe park an exo or two.
But are Doms in MM immo's good enough to take down a knight? Has anyone tried it yet?
Repentia would get insta-death-stomped. PE's probably wouldn't make it, but if they did, they might do some damage.
I'm adding a Jakero/plasma cannon servitor/inquisitor unit to by SOB for more added Anti-tank firepower in case my doms don't take the Knight out.

Actually, Repentia will do fine at anti-Knightery.
Even IF they get instant death-wiped out by the stomp, it's I1, and the StrD CCW will only kill 1-3 of them, leaving the remaining Repentia to curbstomp the Knight (it only needs 4 Repentia to live if charging, 6-8 if charged).

Melta weapons will need 6 to 36 shots to take down a Knight
(Best case, inside Melta Range, against AV12 with no save = 6)
(Worst case, outside Melta Range, against AV13 with Invun save = 36)

 Ovion wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
Yeah, in all the taking down knights threads, I was thinking how Void Shield generators would force the knights to come to you. Also the void shield would be pretty good against most fliers.

Good for defense. Maybe park an exo or two.
But are Doms in MM immo's good enough to take down a knight? Has anyone tried it yet?
Repentia would get insta-death-stomped. PE's probably wouldn't make it, but if they did, they might do some damage.
I'm adding a Jakero/plasma cannon servitor/inquisitor unit to by SOB for more added Anti-tank firepower in case my doms don't take the Knight out.

Actually, Repentia will do fine at anti-Knightery.
Even IF they get instant death-wiped out by the stomp, it's I1, and the StrD CCW will only kill 1-3 of them, leaving the remaining Repentia to curbstomp the Knight (it only needs 4 Repentia to live if charging, 6-8 if charged).

Melta weapons will need 6 to 36 shots to take down a Knight
(Best case, inside Melta Range, against AV12 with no save = 6)
(Worst case, outside Melta Range, against AV13 with Invun save = 36)

The stomp is In 1? That's a little better. They'll get their attacks off first at least. Also, the mistress can have a melta bomb.
That makes me a little more hopeful. Also, a priest could help out with his smash attack.

I think a squad with a superior and a priest both with melta bombs will only need about 10 sisters to take out a knight on average.

Only thing that could go seriously wrong is the priest being stomped and a 6 being rolled or you failing your 2+ LoS!

I played at 2000 against this IG / GK with an imperial knight list:

Company Command Squad with lascannon and bombardment guy.

2 veteran squads in chimeras with 3 plasmaguns each.

Pask in a Leman Russ Executionner with 2 plasma sponsons.

Draigo

7 strong Paladin squad with 2 psycannons and the apothecary

Dreadknight

Imperial Knight.


We play on tables that are quite heavy with terrain. Lots of high level cover and line of sight blocking terrain.

We ended up with Hammer and Anvil and still the knight was in assault by turn 3. I opted to ignore it. Cover and his 4++ shield meant I could not get around to getting clear shots at him, ever. His shooting output isnt all that great after you factor in cover saves. He will murder what he touches in close combat with stomps and his higher initiative means his sweeping advance will likely take your squad off, but he can only do so with 1 unit a turn. I would throw empty rhinos in his way to block his movement to great effect.

It was definitely a powerful unit, but by the end of the game I still had several troops alive, in their transports, and so was celestine and some seraphims while all he had left was the Knight (down to 3 hull points), Draigo with 1 wound left and 2 paladins.

I wasnt playing a very competitive list either. I suspect the one I listed above with the void shields would do much better. If Coteaz gets perfect timing and prescience, knights would definitely be in trouble at that point.

Voldrak wrote:
I played at 2000 against this IG / GK with an imperial knight list:

Company Command Squad with lascannon and bombardment guy.

2 veteran squads in chimeras with 3 plasmaguns each.

Pask in a Leman Russ Executionner with 2 plasma sponsons.

Draigo

7 strong Paladin squad with 2 psycannons and the apothecary

Dreadknight

Imperial Knight.


We play on tables that are quite heavy with terrain. Lots of high level cover and line of sight blocking terrain.

We ended up with Hammer and Anvil and still the knight was in assault by turn 3. I opted to ignore it. Cover and his 4++ shield meant I could not get around to getting clear shots at him, ever. His shooting output isnt all that great after you factor in cover saves. He will murder what he touches in close combat with stomps and his higher initiative means his sweeping advance will likely take your squad off, but he can only do so with 1 unit a turn. I would throw empty rhinos in his way to block his movement to great effect.

It was definitely a powerful unit, but by the end of the game I still had several troops alive, in their transports, and so was celestine and some seraphims while all he had left was the Knight (down to 3 hull points), Draigo with 1 wound left and 2 paladins.

I wasnt playing a very competitive list either. I suspect the one I listed above with the void shields would do much better. If Coteaz gets perfect timing and prescience, knights would definitely be in trouble at that point.

That's very hopeful. I'd love to hear a detailed battle report. I have yet to face a titan but probably will soon.

Hurray for people actually playing with significant amounts of terrain. If you set up a table where everyone has lovely clear lines of sight across the board, and it turns into a static shoot-out determined entirely by die rolls, who brought the biggest guns, and who got first turn, well, yeah, that was predictable.

I'm hoping my tripple exo's will be a deterrent.
If not, my two squads of doms in imo's will lend a hand. But the IK's better go down fast or I'm in trouble.

Hiding behind cover is probably your best friend if you don't get first turn....

 SisterSydney wrote:
Hiding behind cover is probably your best friend if you don't get first turn....

Combine that with Exorcists can fire after moving 6" and you're pretty sorted if you go second =)

Exorcists just do so little against AV13 compared to a proper set of meltaguns.

True. I ran the math on taking down a knight in this post in the How To Kill Knights thread and was shocked: Plain S8 penetrates or glances AV13 only 33% of the time, S8 melta (if you're close enough) pens or glances 83 percent of the time, and 72% of the time it's a penetration.

The trick is getting that Dominion squad in range of the giant stompy thing with a giant canon and 12" movement.

 SisterSydney wrote:
The trick is getting that Dominion squad in range of the giant stompy thing with a giant canon and 12" movement.

Outflanking will reach him 17" from the board edge, so unless he's in the middle, you should have him... (quick maths)

Scouting + 1st turn gives up to 30" (including the 6" shooting).

The thing the math thread made me realize though is that melta bombs are like meltaguns that always bypass the 4++. So if you had a regular BSS, with 2 melta guns and 2 melta bombs (second on a priest), you're almost there assuming you have something bigger and scarier that makes him turn away his shield.

Heck if you have a few melta units scattered throughout your army and he wants to use his str D blade you can easily let your opponent do the work of closing the gap for you. (This is where void shields excited me, because they can easily negate a single knight shooting all game.)

Mavnas wrote:Scouting + 1st turn gives up to 30" (including the 6" shooting).

If you get first turn, you want those Dominion squads Scouting. If you don't, Outflanking.

Mavnas wrote:The thing the math thread made me realize though is that melta bombs are like meltaguns that always bypass the 4++. So if you had a regular BSS, with 2 melta guns and 2 melta bombs (second on a priest), you're almost there assuming you have something bigger and scarier that makes him turn away his shield.

Yeah, since the stomp doesn't happen until Initiative 1, you will probably live to get your melta bombs off -- if you get in range. Getting to 6" for melta bonus on the meltaguns is tricky enough, though; charging the Knight is another 6" you have to close and you're trying to hit a WS:4 model....

BlackTalos wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
The trick is getting that Dominion squad in range of the giant stompy thing with a giant canon and 12" movement.

Outflanking will reach him 17" from the board edge, so unless he's in the middle, you should have him... (quick maths)

17"? Doesn't 6" move plus 6" dismount plus 6" melta range = 18"? Or am I missing something?

Yes I'm quibbling I know.

So on a 4'x4' table, or a 4'x6' table with players deploying on the short sides, it's 48" wide, flanking Dominions can melta anything within 18" of either side, a total of 36", so the a Knight has to stay in the middle 12". Confining but not undoable by any means.

On a board 6' wide -- 72" -- there's a 36" band in the middle of the board that's safe from flanking melta squads. But on such a wide board you can set up one Exorcist in each corner so that if he does stay in the middle, he can't block both of them with the shield. You're probably still shooting 1d6 shots of S8 at AV13, though: accordng to my math here, the Exorcist that gets past the shield is doing (roughly) an average of 1 HP a turn. The one that doesn't is doing 0.5 HP a turn. Barring a lucky Explodes! result, you're not taking down the Knight that fast, which means it makes tactical sense for the Knight to stay in the middle and endure the Exorcist crossfire to keep away from flanking Dominion squads.


BUT:

There's also bigger, unanswerable question of how much escort the Knight has to keep your squads from getting in melta effect range, let alone melta bomb range. And the question of what the rest of his army is doing or not doing to screen the Knight raises the question of what the rest of your army is doing, which means the kind of tactical match-ups we can do MathHammer for get subsumed in a much larger tactical equation with enough factors to be, well, chaos theory.

 SisterSydney wrote:
17"? Doesn't 6" move plus 6" dismount plus 6" melta range = 18"? Or am I missing something?

I was missing something: i was counting the 1" from the front of the rhino to 1st door. But then realised you'd 180° it anyway....

 BlackTalos wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
17"? Doesn't 6" move plus 6" dismount plus 6" melta range = 18"? Or am I missing something?

I was missing something: i was counting the 1" from the front of the rhino to 1st door. But then realised you'd 180° it anyway....

You'll still lose one inch because the model has to fully remain within 6" of the door when disembarking, making you lose 25mm = 1". So yeah, 17"

Hitting a WS4 model in melee with a zealot in your squad is easier than shooting it at BS4 on the first round.

In getting a regular BSS to him, I assume he comes to you. A knight that relies only on his shooting is a huge waste of points. The key is to still have enough to repel him when he hits your line.

Brother Michael wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
17"? Doesn't 6" move plus 6" dismount plus 6" melta range = 18"? Or am I missing something?

I was missing something: i was counting the 1" from the front of the rhino to 1st door. But then realised you'd 180° it anyway....

You'll still lose one inch because the model has to fully remain within 6" of the door when disembarking, making you lose 25mm = 1". So yeah, 17"

Not really, i mean if you come in with the Rhino facing forward, and then point the back door at the titan (180 rotation) then the door will be 6" away from the edge.

Which has also made me think: does a unit have to "face forward" coming from reserve? or can you get the extra 1" from deploying sideways from reserve? =P

To the YMDC-Mobile!

Now I have a mental image of a Rhino roaring up towards the objective, spinning through a 180-degree "bootlegger reverse" like the General Lee in the old Dukes of Hazard TV show, dropping the rear ramp... And then the Sisters stagger out dizzy and nauseous to collapse on the ground.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Now I have a mental image of a Rhino roaring up towards the objective, spinning through a 180-degree "bootlegger reverse" like the General Lee in the old Dukes of Hazard TV show, dropping the rear ramp... Sisters propelled out of the open door, wildly flailing their arms, before landing on their feet 6" away while screaming For the Emperor!.

Fixed it.

 CoteazRox wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
Now I have a mental image of a Rhino roaring up towards the objective, spinning through a 180-degree "bootlegger reverse" like the General Lee in the old Dukes of Hazard TV show, dropping the rear ramp... Sisters propelled out of the open door, wildly flailing their arms, before landing on their feet 6" away while screaming For the Emperor!.

Fixed it.

Haha the Emperor protects

Technically this could apply to deployment and scouting too. Deploy sideways, scout then rotate for your first turn move.

SISTER KORIANDER: The Emperor protects!
SISTER RAVEN: From motion sickness?
SISTER KORIANDER: Yup, and unwanted pregnancy!
SISTER RAVEN: What.
SISTER KORIANDER: I said, unwanted pregn....
SISTER RAVEN: How did you find out THAT?!?
SISTER KORIANDER (smiling entirely too much & not looking Raven in the eyes): Read it somewhere.

Errr, I'd better cross post this discussion in the Sororitas jokes thread and stop derailing the tactics thread now....

 SisterSydney wrote:
Errr, I'd better cross post this discussion in the Sororitas jokes thread and stop derailing the tactics thread now....

Please...

I am going to play a one day event tomorrow, looking at using my sisters/inquisiton. Was wondering if someone could give me some pointers on the list and any improvements?

Saint Celestine
Priest
Priest
Coteaz
Inquisitor, level 1, psycho grenades, rad grenades, level 1, liber heresius, 3 servo skulls

3x3 Acolytes, razorbacks, HB psyammo

5 Sisters, 2 flamers, rhino
20 Sisters, multimelta, melta gun

3x5 dominions, 4 meltas, combi melta, MM immolator

3 Exorcists

I am running the sister blob as you can see. Hoping my dominions and exorcists can help deal with any threats to the blob and try and die up anything nasty in combat with the blob.

Jpr wrote:
I am going to play a one day event tomorrow, looking at using my sisters/inquisiton. Was wondering if someone could give me some pointers on the list and any improvements?

Saint Celestine
Priest
Priest
Coteaz
Inquisitor, level 1, psycho grenades, rad grenades, level 1, liber heresius, 3 servo skulls

3x3 Acolytes, razorbacks, HB psyammo

5 Sisters, 2 flamers, rhino
20 Sisters, multimelta, melta gun

3x5 dominions, 4 meltas, combi melta, MM immolator

3 Exorcists

I am running the sister blob as you can see. Hoping my dominions and exorcists can help deal with any threats to the blob and try and die up anything nasty in combat with the blob.

I'd switch out the meltagun and multi-melta in your sister blob for flammers. you have enough anti-tank stuff, so leave your sisters for anti-infantry.

Jpr wrote:
I am going to play a one day event tomorrow, looking at using my sisters/inquisiton. Was wondering if someone could give me some pointers on the list and any improvements?

Saint Celestine
Priest
Priest
Coteaz
Inquisitor, level 1, psycho grenades, rad grenades, level 1, liber heresius, 3 servo skulls

3x3 Acolytes, razorbacks, HB psyammo

5 Sisters, 2 flamers, rhino
20 Sisters, multimelta, melta gun

3x5 dominions, 4 meltas, combi melta, MM immolator

3 Exorcists

I am running the sister blob as you can see. Hoping my dominions and exorcists can help deal with any threats to the blob and try and die up anything nasty in combat with the blob.

Do you want to attach more than one IC to the small sister squad? If not, why not take an immolator instead? Also, why not go F/HF? It's only a 5 point difference and they're both assault weapons anyway...
Also, you might want to attach storm bolters to the exorcist. Those 5 points are a great 4+ save against weapon destroyed results.
I suggest swapping out the multi-melta for a meltagun. Your blob is supposed to be mobile and approach the foe, so heavy weapons aren't that useful compared to assault weapons. (remember, you can use your 6" move as 'extra range' that way).
If you're going to run a sisters blob, I very very very strongly suggest taking Jakobus instead of Celestine, and also taking more than two priests. Maybe it isn't such a bad idea to drop one of the dominion squads to get a few more priests here and there, and perhaps the odd relic.

Why go F/HF in a 20 squad?

I assume the Xenos inquisitor and priest are getting attached to that? That whole squad already covers anti-light infantry pretty well.

Are the three minimum-strength Acolyte squads just meant to as a cheap way to get three Razorbacks? If you're expecting them to dismount , a 3-man squad is awfully fragile...

All the ics go in the big sister squad. I just had some points left over I wasn't sure what to do with .

The acolytes are just cheap scorers and the razors are just there to plink away at drones etc which I don't want to waste exorcists on.

Huh. The Razorbacks and their riders are costing you 156 points. Maybe that's not a terrible deal for three twin-linked heavy bolters and nine scoring bodies with some mobility.

But it seems inefficient, specifically fragile: you get modest firepower, zero assault power, and not much staying power, given it's AV 11/11/10 tanks and T:3 Sv:5+ models that go away if somebody looks at them too hard.

I'll be very interested to hear how it works.

Jpr wrote:
All the ics go in the big sister squad. I just had some points left over I wasn't sure what to do with .

The acolytes are just cheap scorers and the razors are just there to plink away at drones etc which I don't want to waste exorcists on.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Huh. The Razorbacks and their riders are costing you 156 points. Maybe that's not a terrible deal for three twin-linked heavy bolters and nine scoring bodies with some mobility.

But it seems inefficient, specifically fragile: you get modest firepower, zero assault power, and not much staying power, given it's AV 11/11/10 tanks and T:3 Sv:5+ models that go away if somebody looks at them too hard.

I'll be very interested to hear how it works.

As pointed out above, just drop at least 1 3-men squad and take an Immolator on the 5-sisters squad, you'd get pretty much the same result (TL HB)
A 5-sister in Immolator is also a cheap scorer but slightly better.

Also, all IC in the 20-blob? Celestine seems slightly wasted - what's the mobility for? if you have some points why not have 135pts for 5 Seraphim with flamers and have them as rapid response anti-blob behind your blob? =p


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ideally you even have them get charged, so that on your turn (hoping for survival here) your own unit charges in and they can Hit&Run out to become support again

"Ma'am! 31st Anti-Blob Blob reporting!"

"Excellent, Blob Leader! Fall in behind the main blob and keep a sharp look-out for blobs!"

No one beats the anti-blob blob, especially with so many flamers!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, back to tactica:

I now will never use Exorcists without Storm bolter upgrade (the Roll of 4 on Pens). Do you buy it for the Immolator too? Yes/No and why?

I'd think along the same lines as the Exorcist, plus the close range of the vehicle itself would seem even more appropriate?

I always buy them for the Immo. I find it's TL Multi-Melta far more useful than my Exorcists ever are.

TL MM Immolators are way more tankbusty than Exorcists if you can get them in 12" -- the thing about the Exorcist is that at 48" it's our only "long-range" asset.

(And yes, a Guard, Tau, or Eldar player would laugh at 48" being "long range.")

Has anyone tried SOB in Kill Team?
I've never played Kill Team but I'm kind of curious now. Are any units that suck on the table, actually usable in KT? Anything to be wary of?

It's a mixed bag really.

Repentia are both better AND worse at the same time (slightly squishier, but fearless).

Everything else is much the same I think?

Taking a mix of BSS and Seraphim is probably a good idea though.
Maybe an Immo if it'll fit?

Any more opinions on the Strom Bolter for Immolators?

As for KT:
You can Outflank.
Scout gives you Outflank.
KT is single-model units: No Look-out sirs.
2 points per enemy leader and 1 point per Special (depending on mission)

Now, take 4 melta-gun dominions, outflank then, and see your enemy weep as you One-shot all 4 of their "Specials" with 4 Acts of faith giving them no where to hide

A 10-lady Seraphim Squad with Hand Flamers and a lightly blinged Superior works out a 200pts for KT. Nothing like jump infantry in KT.

SJ

I never take storm bolters, my immos want to get within 12" to pop armour and then they're essentially gonna get popped themselves. Sure they can be useful on exorcists for trying to save your big gun but I think the points can almost always be spent on other more useful things.

D

Even on exorcists, they are really a waste of points. The glory of the SOB codex is how cheap everything is. Slapping wargear on it dulls that edge.

If I had the points spare I might add the bolter to the Exorcist. Not the immolators though.

Been listcrafting for some of the knight spam players we have roaming around.

Just a bit of listcrafting for my local game club. Maling a list to try and cope with sudden and entirely expected knight spam lists. Meltas, meltas everywhere.

HQ
1 Celestine
5 Seraphim 2x twin hand flamer

Troops
5 units: 6x Battle Sisters 2x Melta in immolator with TL/MM

Knight Errant

3x Exorcist w Stormbolter

Coteaz

1850 on the nose.

Coteaz gives prescience first turn on the knight and on exorcists in turns after. Gives me the 1/3 chance to sieze. Errant sucks up fire while the exorcists do work and immos head into melta range. Celestine and seraphim hunt allied troops.

Suck it knight spammers.

So, your approach to people using knights is tailoring your list against them? I don't see how that makes you the better player.

Also, you're dead if you end up against a horde army.

A Knight-Paladin with its longer-range blasts would help against hordes, as well as switching a couple of Battle Sister Squads over to flamers. Also, when you have one Knight and the enemy has two or more, you really want to hang back, not advance, so they don't get to gang up on your Knight with their giant chainsaws.

And I'd really recommend replacing two of the BSS with two Dominion squads (you'll need extra points, eg giving up the Storm Bolters on the Exorcists) because the ability to scout/outflank 8 meltaguns and two twin-linked multi-meltas kills Knights a lot faster -- especially if you outflank at the same time as they're facing your melta troops from the front and have to choose which way to point the shield and their front armor.

Brother Michael wrote:
So, your approach to people using knights is tailoring your list against them? I don't see how that makes you the better player.

Also, you're dead if you end up against a horde army.

The idea was originally MSU melta spam. The fact that Knights and Land Raiders are in fashon at the FLGS has some things to do with it.

The idea that people don't tailor their lists for what they expect to face is absurd. List crafting to win against the meta of your gaming club is a big part of wargaming.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SisterSydney wrote:
A Knight-Paladin with its longer-range blasts would help against hordes, as well as switching a couple of Battle Sister Squads over to flamers. Also, when you have one Knight and the enemy has two or more, you really want to hang back, not advance, so they don't get to gang up on your Knight with their giant chainsaws.


And I'd really recommend replacing two of the BSS with two Dominion squads (you'll need extra points, eg giving up the Storm Bolters on the Exorcists) because the ability to scout/outflank 8 meltaguns and two twin-linked multi-meltas kills Knights a lot faster -- especially if you outflank at the same time as they're facing your melta troops from the front and have to choose which way to point the shield and their front armor.

Not so sure about outflanking against knights.

Okay, give it a shot. Though I can't really drop the errant for a paladin because points are really that tight in this list and if I don't watch it I'm going to end up with a canoness warlord . Listcrafting part 2.

1849

Jacobus
5 Troop Sisters 2 Flamer
Immolator TL-HF

3 Units:
5 Sisters HF/Melta
Immolator TLMM

2 units:
5 Dominions 2 Melta
Immolator/TL MM

3 Exorcists

Knight Errant

Coteaz
Hereticus Inquisitor Psyker, 3 servo skulls.

Coteaz and Jacobus camp backfield objectives against scouts or outflankers. only 4 scoring units though.

Much improved, I think. Two bad you can't squeeze out 40 points to max out the meltaguns on those Dominions, though.

.... I can't really drop the errant for a paladin because points are really that tight in this list.

Drop one of the heavy flamers down to a regular flamer & you'll have the 5 points to "upgrade" the Knight.* I'm always sad to reduce the capacity to LIGHT IT UP but in this case it's worth it.

*Incidentally, it's ridiculous that GW decided the Errant and the Paladin needed a 1.3% difference in points to distinguish them. Dudes, your point cost system is not that precise.

5 points is about all the difference an extra heavy stubber makes anyway. So it makes sense since the Paladin has 2 of them.

Ok, but -- argh -- so why don't they both have two stubbers? Did the bit not fit on the model or something? [headdesk]

Ok i'm a little ocd about symmetry and stuff i'll calm down and drop this now.

 evildrcheese wrote:
I never take storm bolters, my immos want to get within 12" to pop armour and then they're essentially gonna get popped themselves. Sure they can be useful on exorcists for trying to save your big gun but I think the points can almost always be spent on other more useful things.

D

 pretre wrote:
Even on exorcists, they are really a waste of points. The glory of the SOB codex is how cheap everything is. Slapping wargear on it dulls that edge.

 Captain Blood wrote:
If I had the points spare I might add the bolter to the Exorcist. Not the immolators though.

Thanks for that, i do indeed Scout and pop with the dominions MM Immo, so the 5 pts for Storm Bolter is pointless if it dies that turn anyway. Somehow i was thinking it might live past a turn and if anyone's considered that... but i see my foolishness now!

The exorcists however is per experience. I've had Weapons Destroyed rolled twice before i paid the upgrade because i did not know of it's existence. Since then, i've dodged about 75% of the 10-15 odd times weapons destroyed was rolled =D

Between that and being able to snap fire the Organ, anything below a 6 on the Pen table is quite laughable

 BlackTalos wrote:
The exorcists however is per experience. I've had Weapons Destroyed rolled twice before i paid the upgrade because i did not know of it's existence. Since then, i've dodged about 75% of the 10-15 odd times weapons destroyed was rolled =D

Wait. Either you play a LOT of games, or you are remembering incorrectly how many times this has helped you. By the math, this means that you have suffered a minimum of 60-90 pens on your exorcists. Not saying that isn't happening, but that seems pretty high.

Either way, Weapon Destroyed is one result on the table. So they have to Pen and roll that single result for it to be effective. 1/6 of all hits going to be glances, so the SB is useless. Then, even for the pens, 5/6 of those are going to not be weapon destroyed, so almost useless.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Also, when you have one Knight and the enemy has two or more, you really want to hang back, not advance, so they don't get to gang up on your Knight with their giant chainsaws.

Why would you not want that?

A) Keep them busy mid-table so your army can hit the straggler(s)

B)If you position yourself just right, 2 of them will suffer D damage when you blow up (if you get that "hit", it might scatter on just the 1, or none)

C) You don't blow up in the middle of your army, suffering that D damage yourself

D) Not played against a full Knights army yet, but all those D detonations on death must start adding up...


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 pretre wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
The exorcists however is per experience. I've had Weapons Destroyed rolled twice before i paid the upgrade because i did not know of it's existence. Since then, i've dodged about 75% of the 10-15 odd times weapons destroyed was rolled =D

Wait. Either you play a LOT of games, or you are remembering incorrectly how many times this has helped you. By the math, this means that you have suffered a minimum of 60-90 pens on your exorcists. Not saying that isn't happening, but that seems pretty high.

Either way, Weapon Destroyed is one result on the table. So they have to Pen and roll that single result for it to be effective. 1/6 of all hits going to be glances, so the SB is useless. Then, even for the pens, 5/6 of those are going to not be weapon destroyed, so almost useless.

They have been penned quite a bit. By memory it's around 5 results of 1-2, 10 of 3(stunned), i've been immobilised twice i think, 10 or so Weapons D. and about 20 Explosions

As i say, it's just the rolls of what i've seen, and the chances are low, but i'd still rather loose a storm bolter than the Organ.
Whenever stuff deep-strikes or gets close it helps too... I think one of my SB killed a deamon prince only last Monday =P

 BlackTalos wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
Also, when you have one Knight and the enemy has two or more, you really want to hang back, not advance, so they don't get to gang up on your Knight with their giant chainsaws.

Why would you not want that?

A) Keep them busy mid-table so your army can hit the straggler(s)

B)If you position yourself just right, 2 of them will suffer D damage when you blow up (if you get that "hit", it might scatter on just the 1, or none)

C) You don't blow up in the middle of your army, suffering that D damage yourself

D) Not played against a full Knights army yet, but all those D detonations on death must start adding up...

Concentration of force, mate. Moving your one Knight up to tie down their one Knight is a valid tactic if it lets the rest of your army do really matters. Moving your one Knight up to fight two Knights means you're going down fast without doing much damage in return (unless you get lucky with that D blast scattering -- apparently it's harder than it sounds), and then both their Knights are free to go stompy stompy on the rest of your army.

Although the 1 knight should still have done some damage against 1, 2 or 3 he's got the same chance of damage dealing? He might even kill one if your army has weakened one already, and the tie up is at least a turn for your Exorcists to shoot down the third roaming one.

Unless the current knight meta is all bunched up at the centre? It is really guesswork, but i've played my knight aggressively and it works =D

Depends on who gets to strike first, but over more than one round of combat, the two will kill the one faster than one will kill one, which means the victorious two will take less damage than the victor of a one-on-one combat would.

I'm changing up my list a bit. My main debate is:
Do I use 18 sister blobs or use less sisters and divide them up into 10's and put them in rhinos?

I know this has been debated quite a lot, but is there a definitive answer?

Yes.

I'm also quite curious as to why 7?
What's wrong with 6, 8 or 10? :p

Anyone have any thoughts on a Tempestus alliance? I've been looking over the book some, and I think it could be a nice gap-filler for larger point games (albeit a lot of my interest is in fluff) but how would you run and arm them?

I think the obvious first choice is the Valk formation, but while that gives me a basic shape, it does not give much in the way of details in arming the squads. I'm leaning towards a mix of plasma and volleyguns, as my usual Sisters pack more than enough melta to have fun with.

Can't find any mention anywhere of what the bullgryns do :(

Was hoping they'd be a nice cheap meatshield to stick in front of a priest star unit....

You want meatshields for your Sisters, you gotta make 'em yourself: Here, have some hilarious homebrew Frateris militia (complete with "Assisted Martyrdom" special rule allowing your other units to shoot through them when they're locked in melee, with misses hitting the Frateris in the back).

 SisterSydney wrote:

Concentration of force, mate. Moving your one Knight up to tie down their one Knight is a valid tactic if it lets the rest of your army do really matters. Moving your one Knight up to fight two Knights means you're going down fast without doing much damage in return (unless you get lucky with that D blast scattering -- apparently it's harder than it sounds), and then both their Knights are free to go stompy stompy on the rest of your army.

Well my experience when playing a single knight with sisters is that you want to play very aggressively with it regardless of your opponent's list. Taking the chance on the D detonation hitting their knights is much better than wasting it backfield. TBH you're paying for the thing to go nuclear in it's points cost. The f**kheug D weapon explosion is a feature, not a bug. Also with one knight it's really not going to last as long as you'd think. It's there like you said to mostly allow your exorcists to go unmolested and pop the things they need to pop while the opponent is concentrating on the big scary knight turn 1 and 2.

You basically always want the Knight to blow near enemy lines instead of your own. Regardless of whether you get a lucky scatter for the inner-D circle.

dadakkaest wrote:
Yes.

Very unhelpful.
Does anyone have anything useful to offer? Sister blobs good? Bad? Stick 'em in rhino's better?

Also, I have a game against an IG player coming up and he's going to be using Deathstrike missiles. Any advice about facing these? Should I be worried?

 MWHistorian wrote:

dadakkaest wrote:
Yes.

Very unhelpful.
Does anyone have anything useful to offer? Sister blobs good? Bad? Stick 'em in rhino's better?

Also, I have a game against an IG player coming up and he's going to be using Deathstrike missiles. Any advice about facing these? Should I be worried?

I run both, generally.

18-20 blob with Jacobus and Priests
1-3 5 girl squads f/hf in Rhinos

Not sure what the new deathstrike rules are although I heard they might be D weapons.

I noticed today that basically ALL of the Sisters are now Website only. So our FLGS can not get them for us =/

They can get them. They just get them at like 75 pct retail.

 pretre wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

Also, I have a game against an IG player coming up and he's going to be using Deathstrike missiles. Any advice about facing these? Should I be worried?

Not sure what the new deathstrike rules are although I heard they might be D weapons.

Not destroyer -- and for once Strength D would be totally appropriate, it's a fething ICBM whose fluff talks about killing a Titans -- but it is S:10 AP:1 with a freaking huge amount of blast. So one shot can annihilate a whole wave a few units of Sisters either on foot or mech'd up... but since it takes a couple of turns to fire, and it's on a fairly lightly armored chassis, the usual Deep-Striking Seraphim and/or Scouting/Outflanking Dominions can probably kill it before it does anything.

You could also try to get your Sisters into melta and flamer range before it launches and then dare the Guard player to land such massive pie plates near his own guys ("hugging the enemy"), but that's tactically trickier. We're not an assault army so we can't just charge all the way home, except for Repentia and Penitent Engines, which are probably overkill against IG infantry...