mikhaila wrote: It's one of the great mysteries of GW now, the way they can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Not a mystery at all: How should the GW decision makers know which rules are good, as they don't have a clue about the products they sell (and can't lower themselves to actually play it)
Which according to some rumor mills holds us in some category that starts at the sidewalk that their shoe walks on.
BunkerBob wrote: Has anyone else been making lists with the supposed rule changes in the rumor mill? Sadly I've made about 14 new lists under those proposed limitations. I've done about 15 or so rolls on gets hot for veterans using the rumor of loosing one special heavy weapon and honestly I am not loosing much as everything has been consistent on the rolls. Then the average was instantly skewed due to constant 1's. Such is my luck.
Bulbous veins will erupt across my forehead if GW turns Veterans into BS4 Infantry Squads.
Even by GW's standards, that would be unbelievably, off your rockers level insane. This is way too early to start drawing up lists.
BunkerBob wrote: Has anyone else been making lists with the supposed rule changes in the rumor mill? Sadly I've made about 14 new lists under those proposed limitations. I've done about 15 or so rolls on gets hot for veterans using the rumor of loosing one special heavy weapon and honestly I am not loosing much as everything has been consistent on the rolls. Then the average was instantly skewed due to constant 1's. Such is my luck.
Bulbous veins will erupt across my forehead if GW turns Veterans into BS4 Infantry Squads.
Even by GW's standards, that would be unbelievably, off your rockers level insane. This is way too early to start drawing up lists.
I wouldn't mind seeing vets at 80 points/squad with only 1 special weapon slot but with one of the 3 combat doctrines included in their cost. Other IG players would have a stroke, but I think it would be good for some fun tactical lists.
BlaxicanX wrote: Unless they decide to give the Hydra interceptor, I don't see what possible appeal it will have. Even to a complete fluff-bunny beer n pretzels pleeb, the unit is literally useless on the tabletop if your opponent isn't bringing air.
I just don't understand the thought process...
I believe it is still pretty useful against skimmers, which are fielded by every Xenos race aside from Nids and they tend to bring FMC's in the HQ slot. Plus, denying them their jink save is pretty handy.
Orks don't usually have skimmers either, but I'd say that the Hydra is still a decent enough gun platform even when used against ground targets. Two TL Autocannons and a Heavy Bolter is pretty good even if you have to snap-fire the AC. Not the most points-efficient way of getting Autocannons with the guard, but still far from literally useless. Two hydras are similar in firepower and cost to one Leman Russ Exterminator and that's not a bad tank at all.
Ah yes, my mistake. I totally spaced out on Orks. Apologies
TBH if Vet squads do go down to 2 special weapons I think it will be a huge nerf to one of the only things IG has left to compete with. My hope is that this doesn't turn into another tyranid release, where they nerf everything that was good, some things that were already bad, and then give us nothing in return.
Yea we have Leman Russes and FW cheese, but that gak only goes so far. Chimera Vets are arguably one of the best, if not THE best unit IG has. And we all know that the Vendetta is getting a price increase.
I'd wager that vets will go down to the "1 special at 5 men, 1 special + 1special or heavy at 10 men" standard.
I doubt we'll ever get plastics other than Cadians and Catachans for years, but, eventually, they'll phase the Catachans out for a different alternative Guard force. Probably Valhallans, but, you know, YEARS down the road.
FW cheese? Something you know that the rest of us are missing? Are Leman Russ Annihilators and Conquerors dominating the game somewhere we haven't heard about? Is the Gorgon tearing Taudar armies apart like they were made of paper? Does the sheer power of the Malcador put fear into Triptide players?
FW cheese? Something you know that the rest of us are missing? Are Leman Russ Annihilators and Conquerors dominating the game somewhere we haven't heard about? Is the Gorgon tearing Taudar armies apart like they were made of paper? Does the sheer power of the Malcador put fear into Triptide players?
FW cheese? I've yet to see any.
Quad launchers are pretty gnarly right now, esp if taken en mass. So are Sabres Defence Platforms, which are waaay underpriced for what you get (id never use a sabre if i could just have a T7 or even a T5 2w heavy weapon team) I think the problem is that guard NEED to have some of these to be truly competitive at the moment. If i recall there was a LVO list that landed high with something like 9 quads? This codex is much needed and Some point balancing will be needed. I don't care much for the idea that i might lose an extra special weapon (darnit! ive already modeled them!) It does make sense that it falls inline with what the rest of the army lists that came out post IG book have with 2. Added special rules for vets would be snazzy, either with free doctrines or cheaper doctrines or the ability to purchase special rules like Tank Hunters or something similar.
schadenfreude wrote: I wouldn't mind seeing vets at 80 points/squad with only 1 special weapon slot but with one of the 3 combat doctrines included in their cost. Other IG players would have a stroke, but I think it would be good for some fun tactical lists.
Oh dear god no. None of the doctrines are even remotely worth taking without 3x special weapons. Carapace armor and camo cloaks suck when you can just buy a whole new squad for redundancy, and melta bombs are way too expensive if the rest of the squad isn't contributing much. Dropping to two special weapon slots would be a big nerf, dropping to one would be the end of vets.
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MrMoustaffa wrote: Vets will probably just go the 2 weapon max model FW has them at.
Which doesn't work and makes them terrible units with no competitive value. ABG vets with their overpriced initial squad size and two specials are garbage that you only take if you're desperate for scoring units and won't take allies, FW command squads with two specials are garbage you only take to fill the mandatory HQ slot, and Hades drill "vets" are garbage you only take as a prerequisite for the melta drill. The only FW vets that work are the DKoK grenadiers that have AP 3 basic weapons and don't need specials as much, and the Elysian vets/command squads that have 3x/4x specials.
FW cheese? Something you know that the rest of us are missing? Are Leman Russ Annihilators and Conquerors dominating the game somewhere we haven't heard about? Is the Gorgon tearing Taudar armies apart like they were made of paper? Does the sheer power of the Malcador put fear into Triptide players?
FW cheese? I've yet to see any.
3 Basilisk cannons on heavy artillery carriage= 24 wounds at t7 half with a 5+ save half with a 3+ save= 1 heavy slot=225 points
3 quad guns=12 shots at t5 ap5 small balsts=9 wounds at t7 5+ save and 6 wounds at t7 3+ save=150 points
3 sabers=3 TLLC with interceptor and skyfire=12 wounds at t7 half with a 5+ save half with a 3+ save=5 per platoon=156 points=scoring unit
Weaknesses.
Squishy like normal guardsmen in assaults.
LD7 with the guns being destroyed if they face a break test, easily fixed.
Small and large pie are not TL, easily fixed
Add a lord commissar who becomes T7 after joining the artillery for a 6" LD10 bubble.
Add a CCS who can give orders to the artillery unit because they partially consist of normal guardsmen, add a banner for rerolls within 12".
Add Coteaz who becomes T7 after joining the artillery for more LD10, and prescience, and a 12" no deep strike bubble or I drop earth shakers on your head.
Add a 2nd inquisitor who becomes T7 after joining the artillery for more LD10, a 2nd prescience, and servo skulls for 1d6 scatter on all that pie.
Or instead of the inquisitors add 2 rune priests to shut down stars, or add tiggerious/that fw special character that chooses divination powers.
IGFW cheese is every bit as bad as the tau cheese. Judging the cheese factor of FWIG on the weakest units is like judging the cheese factor of TauDar off vespid stingerwings and swooping hawks.
How come there are non what so ever rules leaked from the new codex? Usually there are at least some leaks but as far as I`ve heard there are just something that the doctrines are back and that orders are kept, but nothing on what they will contain. Will orders mainly be as they are and will doctrines be the same as before?
Man, whoever was talking about a hypothetical dual-kit Basilisk cannon "wasting too much plastic" a couple pages back, you crazy. Polystyrene for injection molding is one dollar a pound. ABS is < $1.25. Now, even though Imperial units confuse and infuriate me, I'm pretty sure a pound of plastic makes two entire Leman Russes. Within an order of magnitude of two Leman Russes, at least.
Now, adding extra bits does raise mold complexity, and, therefore, tooling costs, but that's never stopped GW before. In fact, mold complexity is the only somewhat legitimate excuse for their stupid prices.
Given all that and historical record, I'd be extremely surprised if that hydra isn't a dualkit. I'd even hypothesize that the kit isn't a hydra at all, but a "Greek-mythical-critter-pattern indirect support vehicle" that can take several different cannons. Kinda like the modern Russ kits. Or the Hellhound kit.
Now, there's been no rumour of such a kit, but there's been no rumour of what I can only describe as some dimwitted Kommando's attempt to blend his Battlewagon into the ranks of the Guard before that ugly pic either.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Vets will probably just go the 2 weapon max model FW has them at.
Which doesn't work and makes them terrible units with no competitive value. ABG vets with their overpriced initial squad size and two specials are garbage that you only take if you're desperate for scoring units and won't take allies, FW command squads with two specials are garbage you only take to fill the mandatory HQ slot, and Hades drill "vets" are garbage you only take as a prerequisite for the melta drill. The only FW vets that work are the DKoK grenadiers that have AP 3 basic weapons and don't need specials as much, and the Elysian vets/command squads that have 3x/4x specials.
Yeah I'm not saying I like it, I'm just saying everyone needs to go ahead and prepare for it, because odds are it will happen. While IG players love their chimera vets, most other players hate them. I wouldn't be surprised to see them get nerfed heavily as an over reaction on GW's part. The vendetta, and maybe even the chimera itself will probably suffer similar nerf beatings as well.
FW cheese? Something you know that the rest of us are missing? Are Leman Russ Annihilators and Conquerors dominating the game somewhere we haven't heard about? Is the Gorgon tearing Taudar armies apart like they were made of paper? Does the sheer power of the Malcador put fear into Triptide players?
FW cheese? I've yet to see any.
I rather like their anti-terminator Manticore, But I wouldn't consider it cheese.
BrookM wrote: Maybe the new Basilisk will be a Vanaheim pattern:
I don't think GW will revamp original Basilisk with this (which looks better). GW only replaced track bogie assembly unit by removing 'track wheels'. if they wanna re-work the Basilisk.
Add Coteaz who becomes T7 after joining the artillery for more LD10, and prescience, and a 12" no deep strike bubble or I drop earth shakers on your head.
Earthshakers have a 36" minimum distance. I don't think Coteaz overrides that.
Add Coteaz who becomes T7 after joining the artillery for more LD10, and prescience, and a 12" no deep strike bubble or I drop earth shakers on your head.
Earthshakers have a 36" minimum distance. I don't think Coteaz overrides that.
Wasn't that FAQ'd to be ignored / only for indirect fire?
Add Coteaz who becomes T7 after joining the artillery for more LD10, and prescience, and a 12" no deep strike bubble or I drop earth shakers on your head.
Earthshakers have a 36" minimum distance. I don't think Coteaz overrides that.
Wasn't that FAQ'd to be ignored / only for indirect fire?
I see nothing regarding the Earthshakers in the Faq.
FW cheese? Something you know that the rest of us are missing? Are Leman Russ Annihilators and Conquerors dominating the game somewhere we haven't heard about? Is the Gorgon tearing Taudar armies apart like they were made of paper? Does the sheer power of the Malcador put fear into Triptide players?
FW cheese? I've yet to see any.
3 Basilisk cannons on heavy artillery carriage= 24 wounds at t7 half with a 5+ save half with a 3+ save= 1 heavy slot=225 points
3 quad guns=12 shots at t5 ap5 small balsts=9 wounds at t7 5+ save and 6 wounds at t7 3+ save=150 points
3 sabers=3 TLLC with interceptor and skyfire=12 wounds at t7 half with a 5+ save half with a 3+ save=5 per platoon=156 points=scoring unit
Weaknesses.
Squishy like normal guardsmen in assaults.
LD7 with the guns being destroyed if they face a break test, easily fixed.
Small and large pie are not TL, easily fixed
Add a lord commissar who becomes T7 after joining the artillery for a 6" LD10 bubble.
Add a CCS who can give orders to the artillery unit because they partially consist of normal guardsmen, add a banner for rerolls within 12".
Add Coteaz who becomes T7 after joining the artillery for more LD10, and prescience, and a 12" no deep strike bubble or I drop earth shakers on your head.
Add a 2nd inquisitor who becomes T7 after joining the artillery for more LD10, a 2nd prescience, and servo skulls for 1d6 scatter on all that pie.
Or instead of the inquisitors add 2 rune priests to shut down stars, or add tiggerious/that fw special character that chooses divination powers.
IGFW cheese is every bit as bad as the tau cheese. Judging the cheese factor of FWIG on the weakest units is like judging the cheese factor of TauDar off vespid stingerwings and swooping hawks.
This relies on allies (or multiple allies) to work properly (unlike say, Eldar or Tau which don't need allies to be absurdly strong), and at that point you're sitting there with everything balled up in one tiny area to ensure everything stays within range of Ld bubbles, your opponent has freedom of board movement, and Emperor help you if those support units are removed. This list *really* does not like things like drop pod SM lists and the like, even with Coteaz in there, especially as even a relatively small number of survivors can rampage through those arty units in CC.
We'll see how the new books turns out, it'll be interesting if Orders survive in their current form or if they get notably changed or replaced entirely. That'll also have a big effect on lists like the above.
Add Coteaz who becomes T7 after joining the artillery for more LD10, and prescience, and a 12" no deep strike bubble or I drop earth shakers on your head.
Earthshakers have a 36" minimum distance. I don't think Coteaz overrides that.
Wasn't that FAQ'd to be ignored / only for indirect fire?
I see nothing regarding the Earthshakers in the Faq.
Not a FAQ, it's in the BRBPg. 34, first bullet point. Second sentence, after the "/"
Was a change in 6th, and something a bunch of people never noticed.
Balance wrote: For the Ogryns, the fact that apparently there's what appears to be manufactured armor with mounting brackets for tread-links seems a bit silly. Using spare links as 'improvised armor' on tanks is kind of neat, maybe as a shoulder-guard on an Ogryn, but having it as a part of what appears to be manufactured armor seems a bit silly.
Actually it could have been intentional in the design since it would be a good way to add armor that is also flexible so that the stomach is protected without reducing mobility to much. Also they might have just had a large pile of damaged tank treads nearby when they were coming up with the design and just choose the reuse them.
Lucius Sejanus wrote: Man, whoever was talking about a hypothetical dual-kit Basilisk a couple pages back, you crazy.
I think you might have (misquoted or misinterpreted) me.
It's not a stretch really, GW has done it before.... Loyal Land Raider + Chaos Upgrade Sprue (added to same loyal LR kit) = Chaos Land Raider... $74 versus $77....
Just was saying (one possibility) IF GW wanted to cut production costs/time/etc & increase profits/quick release of new kit (to be even more profitable), a simple sprue for a Hydra option added to an existing kit, with a price raise, would be an easy way to do it... Not out of the realm of possibilities.
krazynadechukr wrote: a simple sprue for a Hydra option added to an existing kit, with a price raise, would be an easy way to do it... Not out of the realm of possibilities.
That's exactly what it will be... a simple sprue added to a base Chimera hull
That's basically how IG tanks work. The base hull of either Leman Russ or Chimera + 1 sprue to make the variant you're buying (battle tank, demolisher, manticore/deathstrike, hellhound are all the base hull sprue + 1 other sprue).
The only IG tanks that don't follow that format are the Basi, which comes with a tank accessory sprue + 2 smaller sprues and the Baneblade, which since they repackaged it, comes with several sprues to make either the sword variants or the baneblade variants.
I tend to think the Hydra will be the same old formula of Chimera hull + 1 sprue to make a Hydra and MAYBE another tank if it can fit on the same sprue (highly doubt it'll be the Basi). If it's going to take them 3 sprues to do it (Chimera hull + Hydra sprue + "other tank" sprue) I'm guessing they'll just split them in to different boxes as separate kits.
Unless the Hydra upgrade can't fit on a single sprue anyway, then it becomes more likely that they'll dual kit it with 3 sprues.
One thing that always bugged me about IG was that you had to be within 12" to get orders. But you can buy a fricking radio (vox caster) and you still had to be within 12". Does IG (or GW) not know how radios work?!?!?!? I should be able to put a vox caster in my squad and they should be able to get orders from the other side of the battle field. Or, use even more common sense, and let sergeants give orders. Just silly common sense stuff...
Davespil wrote: One thing that always bugged me about IG was that you had to be within 12" to get orders. But you can buy a fricking radio (vox caster) and you still had to be within 12". Does IG (or GW) not know how radios work?!?!?!? I should be able to put a vox caster in my squad and they should be able to get orders from the other side of the battle field. Or, use even more common sense, and let sergeants give orders. Just silly common sense stuff...
agreed, even to take it a step further and create 2 groupings for orders, defensive and offensive orders. Your sergeants can give defensive orders, but the company commander can give offensive orders, something similar to psyker powers in regards to number of orders per turn. Leave the orders for the commander at a 12 inch range, but give all the units a vox upgrade for a few points that extends the range of the orders to a much larger number
Davespil wrote: One thing that always bugged me about IG was that you had to be within 12" to get orders. But you can buy a fricking radio (vox caster) and you still had to be within 12". Does IG (or GW) not know how radios work?!?!?!? I should be able to put a vox caster in my squad and they should be able to get orders from the other side of the battle field. Or, use even more common sense, and let sergeants give orders. Just silly common sense stuff...
agreed, even to take it a step further and create 2 groupings for orders, defensive and offensive orders. Your sergeants can give defensive orders, but the company commander can give offensive orders, something similar to psyker powers in regards to number of orders per turn. Leave the orders for the commander at a 12 inch range, but give all the units a vox upgrade for a few points that extends the range of the orders to a much larger number
That would be nice. The vox caster thing was always pretty stupid.
"The commander is 30 ft away yelling orders, we can't hear him, get on the radio and ask him what his orders were... oh wait, he's now 40 ft away, that's too far to give orders... as you were Mr. Radio Operator"
Davespil wrote: One thing that always bugged me about IG was that you had to be within 12" to get orders. But you can buy a fricking radio (vox caster) and you still had to be within 12". Does IG (or GW) not know how radios work?!?!?!? I should be able to put a vox caster in my squad and they should be able to get orders from the other side of the battle field. Or, use even more common sense, and let sergeants give orders. Just silly common sense stuff...
agreed, even to take it a step further and create 2 groupings for orders, defensive and offensive orders. Your sergeants can give defensive orders, but the company commander can give offensive orders, something similar to psyker powers in regards to number of orders per turn. Leave the orders for the commander at a 12 inch range, but give all the units a vox upgrade for a few points that extends the range of the orders to a much larger number
I disagree. Commanders should be there to take care of the overall tactics of the fight. But the sergeants and LTs are the one that give specific orders to squads and platoons and this should be reflected in the game play. And if you can be in touch with a space craft you should be in touch with a squad thats 200 feet away.
Las wrote: Also, orders into transports... Why not? The chimera can act as a freaking mobile command vehicle but it doesn't have a radio?
Maybe its too loud inside, so they can only mount loud speakers outside =P
Seriously, i can see why not giving vehicles orders may have been a balance issue (unless they borrow the vehicle orders from ABG) but voxes should give you unlimited range (or at least double!), not what they are now. In fact, i could venture to say that keeping orders as is but with Vox with unlimited range would drastically change how guard can work as an army currently, making troop lists more viable.
While on the subject of orders and rumors, anyone have ANY idea of what they are doing or what they have heard they are doing with orders?
I still find it incredibly amusing that the Imperial Guard (or Astra whatever) are the only faction that realized telling your soldiers what to do might increase efficiency.
Eldarain wrote: I still find it incredibly amusing that the Imperial Guard (or Astra whatever) are the only faction that realized telling your soldiers what to do might increase efficiency.
I think of it more that IG are the only race that are such bad fighters that they benefit from being told things like "shoot more efficiently!", lol. Your average Space Marine has been fighting for hundreds of years and instinctively knows what to do. Orks just charge foward making the loudest noise possible and can't really be told what to do. Tyranids are hooked in to the hive mind.
IG are the ones which rely on their structure, so without orders they are in more trouble than other races.
Davespil wrote: One thing that always bugged me about IG was that you had to be within 12" to get orders. But you can buy a fricking radio (vox caster) and you still had to be within 12". Does IG (or GW) not know how radios work?!?!?!? I should be able to put a vox caster in my squad and they should be able to get orders from the other side of the battle field. Or, use even more common sense, and let sergeants give orders. Just silly common sense stuff...
Davespil wrote: One thing that always bugged me about IG was that you had to be within 12" to get orders. But you can buy a fricking radio (vox caster) and you still had to be within 12". Does IG (or GW) not know how radios work?!?!?!? I should be able to put a vox caster in my squad and they should be able to get orders from the other side of the battle field. Or, use even more common sense, and let sergeants give orders. Just silly common sense stuff...
That can be called shouting range broadcasting ! Sure, I found this vox caster rule ridiculous, but what is even more, is finding it constantly in some IG newcomers lists, who put the damn thing in every single squad !
Back in the days of 4th edition codex, the radio had a board-wide effect, allowing to transmit commanders leadership for morale tests. This was more consistent, but orders did not exist then.
I hope they will find something both more realistic and playable this time.
By the way, we have been put on radio silence regarding rumours.
Some picture leaks, but absolutely nothing concerning rules since months.
Worrying silence...
Las wrote: Also, orders into transports... Why not? The chimera can act as a freaking mobile command vehicle but it doesn't have a radio?
Maybe its too loud inside, so they can only mount loud speakers outside =P
Seriously, i can see why not giving vehicles orders may have been a balance issue (unless they borrow the vehicle orders from ABG) but voxes should give you unlimited range (or at least double!), not what they are now. In fact, i could venture to say that keeping orders as is but with Vox with unlimited range would drastically change how guard can work as an army currently, making troop lists more viable.
While on the subject of orders and rumors, anyone have ANY idea of what they are doing or what they have heard they are doing with orders?
Years ago I made a crudely photoshopped jpeg that illustrates the idiocy of the current order system and vox radio upgrades. Regiments less favored by the Omnissiah use colored flags attached to their vox antenna instead and just twist the dials for fun.
The only issue I have with Vox Casters is if I buy them I don't need them, if I don't buy them I need them.
I have entire games were I never need the re-roll exept for my Rough Riders who can't pass a Leadership to save there lives.
Anpu42 wrote: The only issue I have with Vox Casters is if I buy them I don't need them, if I don't buy them I need them.
I have entire games were I never need the re-roll exept for my Rough Riders who can't pass a Leadership to save there lives.
I tend to give the majority of my orders to Heavy Weapon Teams with their crap sergeant-less leadership so the reroll comes in quite handy.
Add Coteaz who becomes T7 after joining the artillery for more LD10, and prescience, and a 12" no deep strike bubble or I drop earth shakers on your head.
Earthshakers have a 36" minimum distance. I don't think Coteaz overrides that.
Wasn't that FAQ'd to be ignored / only for indirect fire?
I see nothing regarding the Earthshakers in the Faq.
You would be correct under 5th edition rules, but not 6th.
6th edition rulebook. Minimum range=same thing as shooting a target without LOS.=Earth shakers can can still continue to shoot while their target is in minimum range with a BS of 0
Coteaz, 9 guardsmen with flashlights, and 3 earth shakers can all fire shots if a unit triggers I've been expecting you. BS0 on the earth shakers isn't that bad because coteaz would have cast prescience on the unit on the previous turn. BS0 with rerolls to hit is still more accurate than bs3 without rerolls to hit.
Anpu42 wrote: The only issue I have with Vox Casters is if I buy them I don't need them, if I don't buy them I need them.
I have entire games were I never need the re-roll exept for my Rough Riders who can't pass a Leadership to save there lives.
I tend to give the majority of my orders to Heavy Weapon Teams with their crap sergeant-less leadership so the reroll comes in quite handy.
Strangely, you need a vox in the order-giving command squad AND the squad receiving the order - so heavy weapon squads can not get that re-roll! One of several strange and frustrating things about the orders rules.
Solid rumors are entirely based on leaked White Dwarf info now, so we're going to get everything in smaller bites and with only a week or two between rumor and release/pre-release.
krazynadechukr wrote: a simple sprue for a Hydra option added to an existing kit, with a price raise, would be an easy way to do it... Not out of the realm of possibilities.
That's exactly what it will be... a simple sprue added to a base Chimera hull
That's basically how IG tanks work. The base hull of either Leman Russ or Chimera + 1 sprue to make the variant you're buying (battle tank, demolisher, manticore/deathstrike, hellhound are all the base hull sprue + 1 other sprue).
The only IG tanks that don't follow that format are the Basi, which comes with a tank accessory sprue + 2 smaller sprues and the Baneblade, which since they repackaged it, comes with several sprues to make either the sword variants or the baneblade variants.
I tend to think the Hydra will be the same old formula of Chimera hull + 1 sprue to make a Hydra and MAYBE another tank if it can fit on the same sprue (highly doubt it'll be the Basi). If it's going to take them 3 sprues to do it (Chimera hull + Hydra sprue + "other tank" sprue) I'm guessing they'll just split them in to different boxes as separate kits.
Unless the Hydra upgrade can't fit on a single sprue anyway, then it becomes more likely that they'll dual kit it with 3 sprues.
After watching my new Ministorum priest with an Eviscerator kill a Blood Angel Librarian and Hammernator, take a plasma cannon shot to the face, out-fight a Devastator Sergeant in a challenge with BP/CCW, cause the 4 Guardsmen with him to bayonet 2 Marines and rout said Devastator Squad, and then survive a missile to the face with his amulet 4++, all in the same game, I've been quite won over by him.
I'm wondering if the new IG book will create Ministorum priests like they are in Codex Inquisition and Sisters of Battle, I'd imagine they'd be quite competitive as independent characters in an IG detachment.
You realize that it wasn't what you'd called a likely set of outcomes, right? My Inquisitor in power armor killed Belial (I wounded/hit every attack and my opponent failed every invul and FNP) but I don't expect that to happen any time soon again.
warboss wrote: You realize that it wasn't what you'd called a likely set of outcomes, right? My Inquisitor in power armor killed Belial (I wounded/hit every attack and my opponent failed every invul and FNP) but I don't expect that to happen any time soon again.
Its all in the model, not the unit
It seems to be my sort of luck that the stuff that should be least likely to succeed does incredible and the stuff I expect to do well does terrible
For instance, just before that happened, Cypher, who costs literally 3 times as much, got beat in CC by said Librarian after he passed a pair of 5+ invulns where one would have killed him on the plasma pistol attacks, and wounded Cypher twice with 3 attacks.
One of my jammiest feats of luck was having a Veteran Sergeant kill a pair of Wraithguard with two shotgun shots after grav-chuting out a Vendetta onto an objective. I rolled my hits, rolled double sixes, went "oh, hunh", continued rolling, and then my opponent looked to me with disdain and told me what had just transpired.
Or watching my barebones Company Commander beat a Shard of Anaris Autarch on Jetbike in close combat and kill him (admittedly he'd lost one wound befoerhand but eh it was still frigging surprising)
But when I need my 255 point Leman Russ Executioner to kill a few MEQ at a critical turning point? Miss every single shot, lose game as a result.
I like the concept of orders and doctrines but as I was reading these last few pages I had a random fear that it would all be random like psychic powers are. I hope there won't be a ton of book keeping when starting a game. I would very much hate to have to write down the orders each sergeant and officer know.
Now wouldn't that be a hot load of narrative?
The FAQ people are talking about here let the colossus and griffon fire both directly and indirectly.
I could imagine a horrific (but lulzy) "random orders chart".
"When issuing orders, have the unit receiving the order take a leadership test. If the test is passed, the order is received, if the test is failed, roll a D6. On a 2+, the squad merely fails to receive the order. On a roll of 1, the unit mishears your order, and you must roll on the "Orders mishap" table:
1-2: "Can you repeat that, sir?" The unit merely fails to receive the order.
3-4: "Roger that sir, falling back." The unit moves 2d6'' toward the players' board edge at the start of its movement phase, and may take no further actions that turn.
5-6: "jfsdhfskfhsdkfhs" The unit believes that the Lord Commander has turned to Chaos and it's every man for himself. The unit inflicts 2d6 hits upon itself with a strength and AP profile of the majority weapon type within the unit."
Imagine all the rock-hard narrative forging you can do.
Maybe they'll get really nostalgic and we'll get a barebones codex with only the units from 3rd Ed's BRB and everything else will be either a supplement or a dataslate.
I mean, all bets are off, right?
/sarcasm. <---because you never know who might think I was serious.
krazynadechukr wrote: Just was saying (one possibility) IF GW wanted to cut production costs/time/etc & increase profits/quick release of new kit (to be even more profitable), a simple sprue for a Hydra option added to an existing kit, with a price raise, would be an easy way to do it... Not out of the realm of possibilities.
How is adding a Hydra sprue to the baslisk box any quicker and cheaper than releasing it as a single kit? Either way means some graphic design work (either redoing the Baslisk box into the dual kit box, or making a Hydra box) and either way means making a Hydra sprue.
BlaxicanX wrote: I could imagine a horrific (but lulzy) "random orders chart".
"When issuing orders, have the unit receiving the order take a leadership test. If the test is passed, the order is received, if the test is failed, roll a D6. On a 2+, the squad merely fails to receive the order. On a roll of 1, the unit mishears your order, and you must roll on the "Orders mishap" table:
1-2: "Can you repeat that, sir?" The unit merely fails to receive the order.
3-4: "Roger that sir, falling back." The unit moves 2d6'' toward the players' board edge at the start of its movement phase, and may take no further actions that turn.
5-6: "jfsdhfskfhsdkfhs" The unit believes that the Lord Commander has turned to Chaos and it's every man for himself. The unit inflicts 2d6 hits upon itself with a strength and AP profile of the majority weapon type within the unit."
Imagine all the rock-hard narrative forging you can do.
O the fun and chaos that would cause it would be a blast . A plasma vet squad wipes it self out on turn one....
I don't think the Hydra will be a part of the basilisk box personally.
(unless in the vast sea of comments before mine that would take forever to read them all, it specifically states "it will be a part of the basilisk kit")
I think it could end up a different box like a manticore or something. the picture has the crew hatch on the front very similar to the current manitcore/deathstrike kit with the blocky driver hatch.
There is a basilisk directly above the Hydra in the picture with the coupala version of the Chimeras upper front hull. So Im in dout it will be a part of the basi kit.
That or it would be its own kit as it seems to have its own type of weapon mount on the chassis.
but we shall see. Im just glad that they won't be only from conversion or FW to get a Hydra....
I pray they will get better for AA with interceptor or something, as right now they die before they can even shoot aircraft, often nuked by the very aircraft they were sent to kill.
BlaxicanX wrote: I could imagine a horrific (but lulzy) "random orders chart".
"When issuing orders, have the unit receiving the order take a leadership test. If the test is passed, the order is received, if the test is failed, roll a D6. On a 2+, the squad merely fails to receive the order. On a roll of 1, the unit mishears your order, and you must roll on the "Orders mishap" table:
1-2: "Can you repeat that, sir?" The unit merely fails to receive the order.
3-4: "Roger that sir, falling back." The unit moves 2d6'' toward the players' board edge at the start of its movement phase, and may take no further actions that turn.
5-6: "jfsdhfskfhsdkfhs" The unit believes that the Lord Commander has turned to Chaos and it's every man for himself. The unit inflicts 2d6 hits upon itself with a strength and AP profile of the majority weapon type within the unit."
Imagine all the rock-hard narrative forging you can do.
O the fun and chaos that would cause it would be a blast . A plasma vet squad wipes it self out on turn one....
3 plasma guns wouldn't be the majority weapon type within the unit, there'd still be 6 lasguns.
Man, if Guard get Ministorum Priests as the Sisters and Inquisition does, I will be quite happy. Fearless and Hatred in a guard blob (if those are still around), plus those chants to buff the squad in close combat. I could see putting a 2-3 of these guys in a big conscript squad and just go to town. If the other guy shoots them, they're just killing Conscripts, if the squad gets to the enemy, they'll be bogged down by a bunch of guys re-rolling hits and perhaps wounds, (and maybe armor saves), supported by a hard core of Eviscerator attacks. If the re-roll saves chant is up, I don't even hate the odds of one of these priests in a challenge.
They'll probably just be squad upgrades on regular infantry squads, though, and they'll take away blobs, so those priests will be wasting all their rockin' tunes on 10 Guardsmen.
krazynadechukr wrote: I keep hearing about the possible basilisk dual kit, however, I see several obvious differences in the picture. First (not arrowed) is the lip on the AA gun, then the hatch (round vs square), then a double plate on the front vs no double on the basilisk (where front sloped meets top near hatch), the windows in front look different, etc... Unless they are throwing a new sprue with new top section into basilisk kit, that'd be the only way I think they are going to do it. NO revamped basilisk, just a new sprue tossed in to make it a dual kit.... IMHO.
Simple answer; could just be using an old and new kit. Have they ever done that before?
I don't see them taking away blobs. One of the patterns of 6th edition has been GW tweaking each codex (with points drops and the like) so that you can (or have to) put MORE guys on the table. Why just pay for thirty guardsman (3 vet squads), when you could pay for NINETY?!
BlaxicanX wrote: I don't see them taking away blobs. One of the patterns of 6th edition has been GW tweaking each codex (with points drops and the like) so that you can (or have to) put MORE guys on the table. Why just pay for thirty guardsman (3 vet squads), when you could pay for NINETY?!
*Considers the Prospect of painting 90 Vostroyan Infantry*
They might take away the awesome "platoon" structure (aka, the "yo, I heard you like force orgs" thing) and revert it to regular "mob" units like what orks or nids have.
That would make me more upset than almost any other change. I love the way platoons work right now, even if most choices for it aren't that great
MrMoustaffa wrote: They might take away the awesome "platoon" structure (aka, the "yo, I heard you like force orgs" thing) and revert it to regular "mob" units like what orks or nids have.
That would make me more upset than almost any other change. I love the way platoons work right now, even if most choices for it aren't that great
It's one of the few "realistic" things in 40k; an actual chain of command for the most conventional military force, consisting of, on average, 30-40 men with attached support units.
hell, my whole Death Korps list is supposed to be a standard company; 108 men with attached armour and support weapons. Looks more like a WW2 game's force, and honestly, the Guard would be much worse off without it thematically.
Now the Astra Militarum, who knows what rules they play by.
krazynadechukr wrote: I keep hearing about the possible basilisk dual kit, however, I see several obvious differences in the picture. First (not arrowed) is the lip on the AA gun, then the hatch (round vs square), then a double plate on the front vs no double on the basilisk (where front sloped meets top near hatch), the windows in front look different, etc... Unless they are throwing a new sprue with new top section into basilisk kit, that'd be the only way I think they are going to do it. NO revamped basilisk, just a new sprue tossed in to make it a dual kit.... IMHO.
Simple answer; could just be using an old and new kit. Have they ever done that before?
The current Basilisk is a new/old mixed kit, precisely. Current kit consisting of old gun & accessory bits + V5 chimera hull sprue. What has been said already, is that basilisk on the 1st page picture is even older (original chimera hull), non perfectly matching paint scheme etc... So we can't draw any conclusion from this photo alone, about basilisk presence or absence in the future dual kit.
That's correct, it's the Devil Dog variant of the Hellhound tank.
Quite a useful variant. It's the one I generally use as a fast flanker/harasser to hunt armor. Also the cheapest of the Hellhound variant chassis as well.
I would be super-sad to see the platoon structure go, as well, but I wish they'd figure out something to do with the Platoon Command Squad. I've been playing Guard through 4 editions, and the PCS has only ever had a few useful niches. If I could only have one change in the new codex, it would be to attack PCS squads to blobs.
Biophysical wrote: I would be super-sad to see the platoon structure go, as well, but I wish they'd figure out something to do with the Platoon Command Squad. I've been playing Guard through 4 editions, and the PCS has only ever had a few useful niches. If I could only have one change in the new codex, it would be to attack PCS squads to blobs.
So charging a blob means facing 9 flamers? Good times.
I dunno... is the 4 flamers build for a PCS still the go-to? It still works well in my meta, but none of my friends even have flyers yet, just to tell you how behind the curve they are. They spent their Xmas money on ADLs to counter my Valks, Vendetta and Baleturkeys and that was it.
Biophysical wrote: I would be super-sad to see the platoon structure go, as well, but I wish they'd figure out something to do with the Platoon Command Squad. I've been playing Guard through 4 editions, and the PCS has only ever had a few useful niches. If I could only have one change in the new codex, it would be to attack PCS squads to blobs.
So charging a blob means facing 9 flamers? Good times.
I dunno... is the 4 flamers build for a PCS still the go-to? It still works well in my meta, but none of my friends even have flyers yet, just to tell you how behind the curve they are. They spent their Xmas money on ADLs to counter my Valks, Vendetta and Baleturkeys and that was it.
Charging 9 flamers isn't fun, but the unit costs 325pts at minimum and is about as tough as tissue paper in CC, so it doesn't really bother me. On average, the flamers will only kill 3 Sphess Mareenz who are charging in anyway.
Back when you could have army wide doctrines, I'd infiltrate all my normal platoons, and deepstrike the Platoon Command Squads with meltaguns to hit enemy armor. That army was a ton of fun to run....
BlaxicanX wrote: I could imagine a horrific (but lulzy) "random orders chart".
"When issuing orders, have the unit receiving the order take a leadership test. If the test is passed, the order is received, if the test is failed, roll a D6. On a 2+, the squad merely fails to receive the order. On a roll of 1, the unit mishears your order, and you must roll on the "Orders mishap" table:
1-2: "Can you repeat that, sir?" The unit merely fails to receive the order.
3-4: "Roger that sir, falling back." The unit moves 2d6'' toward the players' board edge at the start of its movement phase, and may take no further actions that turn.
5-6: "jfsdhfskfhsdkfhs" The unit believes that the Lord Commander has turned to Chaos and it's every man for himself. The unit inflicts 2d6 hits upon itself with a strength and AP profile of the majority weapon type within the unit."
Imagine all the rock-hard narrative forging you can do.
I'd accept a reduction in Special Weapon slots if my Lt could actually lead the platoon instead of hiding behind a tree or riding in a vehicle to jump out and die gloriously somewhere completely apart from the main platoon body.
MrMoustaffa wrote: They might take away the awesome "platoon" structure (aka, the "yo, I heard you like force orgs" thing) and revert it to regular "mob" units like what orks or nids have.
That would make me more upset than almost any other change. I love the way platoons work right now, even if most choices for it aren't that great
I've been playing IG for 4 years and the platoon is something I am just starting to get used to. Then again I'm pretty horrible at tactics. I love the platoon because it offers so many bodys and special weapons to through at the enemy in outflanking attacks using alraheim or creed. I hope they don't mess with the blob at all, but I really would like them to allow veteran sergents to issue orders.
Only way you'll get that though is if you make them IC's and can attach them to units. A 5 man IG squad wwont last 5 seconds in the open no matter how good you make them
MrMoustaffa wrote: Only way you'll get that though is if you make them IC's and can attach them to units. A 5 man IG squad wwont last 5 seconds in the open no matter how good you make them
Why can't you just leave them as squads who are allowed to join the blob of the same platoon?
BlaxicanX wrote: I could imagine a horrific (but lulzy) "random orders chart".
"When issuing orders, have the unit receiving the order take a leadership test. If the test is passed, the order is received, if the test is failed, roll a D6. On a 2+, the squad merely fails to receive the order. On a roll of 1, the unit mishears your order, and you must roll on the "Orders mishap" table:
1-2: "Can you repeat that, sir?" The unit merely fails to receive the order.
3-4: "Roger that sir, falling back." The unit moves 2d6'' toward the players' board edge at the start of its movement phase, and may take no further actions that turn.
5-6: "jfsdhfskfhsdkfhs" The unit believes that the Lord Commander has turned to Chaos and it's every man for himself. The unit inflicts 2d6 hits upon itself with a strength and AP profile of the majority weapon type within the unit."
Imagine all the rock-hard narrative forging you can do.
That mad me lol
dear god not a random orders chart! I would rage quit IG.
Biophysical wrote: I'd accept a reduction in Special Weapon slots if my Lt could actually lead the platoon instead of hiding behind a tree or riding in a vehicle to jump out and die gloriously somewhere completely apart from the main platoon body.
Sad to say is that is kind of realistic though. Hey LT just go sit in the vehicle we will take care of it. The "We got it sir!"; is the coin phrase that officers hear the most.
Plus the narrative, The LT got himself killed. I thought we told him to stay in the vehicle?
Would it be over powered to have veterans intermix with regular infantry squads in a platoon? I mean in the same way Nids can customize their guys within their units. For instance, what if you could make a platoon with a variety of different squads: conscripts, infantry, veterans, all together in the same platoon. In the fluff theres always a mix in squads of veterans and newbies when regiments get replenished
Putting platoon command squads in Salamanders, or using the old Salamander rules, replacing the squad with a command variant of the Salamander, would be an interesting choice.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tjnorwoo wrote: Would it be over powered to have veterans intermix with regular infantry squads in a platoon? I mean in the same way Nids can customize their guys within their units. For instance, what if you could make a platoon with a variety of different squads: conscripts, infantry, veterans, all together in the same platoon. In the fluff theres always a mix in squads of veterans and newbies when regiments get replenished
Ah, rolling for shooting and assaults is going to be so much fun with all those coloured dice.
BrookM wrote: Putting platoon command squads in Salamanders, or using the old Salamander rules, replacing the squad with a command variant of the Salamander, would be an interesting choice.
Care to elaborate? I remember you can have command salamanders and scout salamanders, but not much else...
BrookM wrote: Putting platoon command squads in Salamanders, or using the old Salamander rules, replacing the squad with a command variant of the Salamander, would be an interesting choice.
Care to elaborate? I remember you can have command salamanders and scout salamanders, but not much else...
From what I remember, it was nothing to write home about, the bare bones command squad was simply replaced by a Salamander armed with either a top-mounted heavy bolter or heavy flamer plus the standard hull-mounted heavy bolter and I think it came with the old Improved Communications upgrade as a standard.
BlaxicanX wrote: I don't see them taking away blobs. One of the patterns of 6th edition has been GW tweaking each codex (with points drops and the like) so that you can (or have to) put MORE guys on the table. Why just pay for thirty guardsman (3 vet squads), when you could pay for NINETY?!
*Considers the Prospect of painting 90 Vostroyan Infantry*
*Twitches repeatedly*
I can attest to that I am on my 9th squad.....finding it hard to keep motivated.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Only way you'll get that though is if you make them IC's and can attach them to units. A 5 man IG squad wwont last 5 seconds in the open no matter how good you make them
What if Lieutenants were IC... but rather than having platoons they way they have been they were just treated as one big squad that could be combat squaded into whatever configuration you need or is representative of your regiment. Things like Special and Heavy Weapon support squads just become a consequence of clustering all your heavy weapons together and a command squad is just whatever squad the Lieutenant is in.
Actually I end up detaching my PCS from my blobs to either score backfield objectives or ride in a Vendetta with 4 flamers. Works quite well IMO. After all unless you kit them out they are just more lasguns.
ultimentra wrote: Actually I end up detaching my PCS from my blobs to either score backfield objectives or ride in a Vendetta with 4 flamers. Works quite well IMO. After all unless you kit them out they are just more lasguns.
Yo I feel you. Five dudes with flamers breaking off the blob turn four/five to hit an objective in ruins can sometimes be a game changer. People always forget they're a different squad. Suddenly the guard blob camping the objective now has two.
Not sure if this matters, but did anyone else notice that in the Imperial Knight Codex, they still called Imperial Guard, Imperial Guard?
Wouldn't that have been a slow, subtle way to introduce it? Or start to anyway?
alarmingrick wrote: Not sure if this matters, but did anyone else notice that in the Imperial Knight Codex, they still called Imperial Guard, Imperial Guard?
Wouldn't that have been a slow, subtle way to introduce it? Or start to anyway?
No. There is a seperate codex release for the Millitarum Tempestus... Tempestus Scions are the new Storm Troopers... So it'd take the overuse of a made up noun or some confusion on GWs part for that second book not to be intended for Storm Troopers.
BrookM wrote: Putting platoon command squads in Salamanders, or using the old Salamander rules, replacing the squad with a command variant of the Salamander, would be an interesting choice.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tjnorwoo wrote: Would it be over powered to have veterans intermix with regular infantry squads in a platoon? I mean in the same way Nids can customize their guys within their units. For instance, what if you could make a platoon with a variety of different squads: conscripts, infantry, veterans, all together in the same platoon. In the fluff theres always a mix in squads of veterans and newbies when regiments get replenished
Ah, rolling for shooting and assaults is going to be so much fun with all those coloured dice.
you already have to split the dice up to account for all the special weapons, whats a few more colored dice gonna hurt.
It does lend more weight to the idea that Astra Filibusterium is just their high-gothic title (ala Adeptus Astartes to Space Marines) and not a replacement for the low gothic "Imperial Guard".
And that's fine. I can live with a dual naming scheme.
BrookM wrote: Putting platoon command squads in Salamanders, or using the old Salamander rules, replacing the squad with a command variant of the Salamander, would be an interesting choice.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tjnorwoo wrote: Would it be over powered to have veterans intermix with regular infantry squads in a platoon? I mean in the same way Nids can customize their guys within their units. For instance, what if you could make a platoon with a variety of different squads: conscripts, infantry, veterans, all together in the same platoon. In the fluff theres always a mix in squads of veterans and newbies when regiments get replenished
Ah, rolling for shooting and assaults is going to be so much fun with all those coloured dice.
you already have to split the dice up to account for all the special weapons, whats a few more colored dice gonna hurt.
You don't see how having vets, regular, and conscripts all grouped together might not be confusing?
You know, three troop types who are virtually identical to the average player and who will almost always have the same kit?
Can somebody wake me up when complete idiots aren't driving the ship anymore?
Thank you for your constructive and helpful post, it really furthered this discussion.
Calm down man, I'd say as far as slightly snarky personal commentary goes, this was mild. And many of us agree. Not every post mus substantively "further he discussion" whatever you mean by that.
Can somebody wake me up when complete idiots aren't driving the ship anymore?
Thank you for your constructive and helpful post, it really furthered this discussion.
Calm down man, I'd say as far as slightly snarky personal commentary goes, this was mild. And many of us agree. Not every post mus substantively "further he discussion" whatever you mean by that.
Though I fail to see the point of everybody that can't be bothered with the hobby anymore always having the urge to go in and post about it, almost like they are calling us stupid for continuing with it.
Las wrote: I don't understand the strong stance against treadcloths.
Neither do I. They look like something designed from a practical stand point - the Ogryn needed some sort of flexible ablative armour, and the Guard have track links in abundance, so their armour was designed to hook up to a small length of easily-replaceable armour.
Quite a good idea in my mind, and something that the AdMech certainly would not have done.
Because it looks stupid, and the ethos is also stupid. If what you said was accurate, they'd be better off starting in the middle of the chest, and they may as well make their shoulderpads out of the stuff as well. Also, the weight of tank tracks.
Can somebody wake me up when complete idiots aren't driving the ship anymore?
Thank you for your constructive and helpful post, it really furthered this discussion.
Calm down man, I'd say as far as slightly snarky personal commentary goes, this was mild. And many of us agree. Not every post mus substantively "further he discussion" whatever you mean by that.
Though I fail to see the point of everybody that can't be bothered with the hobby anymore always having the urge to go in and post about it, almost like they are calling us stupid for continuing with it.
And yet they are here? I never could figure that out, gluttons for punishment! Now Heres to hoping for SOMETHING ANYTHING coming out this weekend
And yet they are here? I never could figure that out, gluttons for punishment! Now Heres to hoping for SOMETHING ANYTHING coming out this weekend
Its because they want GW to produce quality products like they used to. Its a faint hope but its still hope. People who have completely turned their back on GW's games no longer visit these boards.
As for the changes to veterans I dont mind the reduction of special weapons as long as there is far wider scope for variant basic equipment and doctrines. I would like to see the introduction of veteran platoons as well.
Palindrome wrote: As for the changes to veterans I dont mind the reduction of special weapons as long as there is far wider scope for variant basic equipment and doctrines. I would like to see the introduction of veteran platoons as well.
This is where these long-in-the-tooth threads get most frustrating, because (and this isn't an attack on you, Palindrome) it turns into commentary on speculation, but in order to confirm what you're reading is just speculation you have to read back through a load of speculation posts. I feel like there should be "speculate on N&R" threads that are separate from the actual N&R threads just so N&R can be a useful reference. Probably just my personal bugbear
Can somebody wake me up when complete idiots aren't driving the ship anymore?
Thank you for your constructive and helpful post, it really furthered this discussion.
Calm down man, I'd say as far as slightly snarky personal commentary goes, this was mild. And many of us agree. Not every post mus substantively "further he discussion" whatever you mean by that.
Though I fail to see the point of everybody that can't be bothered with the hobby anymore always having the urge to go in and post about it, almost like they are calling us stupid for continuing with it.
Though I fail to see the point of everybody that can't be bothered with the hobby anymore always having the urge to go in and post about it
As stated, GW are not "the Hobby" Ipaint/play a lot more now that I've found good games with Good rules and good support. Without feeling like I just got my over 40 check-up after a purchase to boot!
almost like they are calling us stupid for continuing with it.
Must be your conscience talking. I didn't say that.
SlaveToDorkness wrote: Looks like I pulled the ripcord on 40K juuuust in time.
Can somebody wake me up when complete idiots aren't driving the ship anymore?
Thank you for your constructive and helpful post, it really furthered this discussion.
Calm down man, I'd say as far as slightly snarky personal commentary goes, this was mild. And many of us agree. Not every post mus substantively "further he discussion" whatever you mean by that.
Though I fail to see the point of everybody that can't be bothered with the hobby anymore always having the urge to go in and post about it, almost like they are calling us stupid for continuing with it.
I am beginning to feel stupid continuing with it, so call a spade a spade... it is just the self satisfied tone we cannot abide by.
I think the greatest cause of the "snarkiness" is that small details are being changed that feel like they did not need changing and they seem to have more negative results than positive (or we really do not understand the reasoning).
There is SO much we would like to see changed that are not, which makes the smaller changes all the more damning.
Leth wrote: I cant wait to see what the stormtrooper army looks like. It will be great to take them as additional dudes in my inquisition army.
So much fun with allies and all these supplements, I can make so many different armies that are reasonably functional while also fitting the fluff.
100% agreed. Its also nice to be able to buy small forces and be able to mix and match them so I can play larger games and not play the same thing every time. I too am building an inquisitional force and looking forward to the storm troopers book to give the inquisition some teeth but I also have a storm wing formation, and some tyranic war veterans to work as deathwatch.
Now just give us our assassins as a formation and the demon hunters codex will be back and better than ever.
We know the first batch of stuff is the Stormtroopers and the Stormtrooper Battle Bus--and that goes up for preorder next week.
What worries me about that is that the IG codex dose not have a solid date. Honestly, I would prefer that they drop everything all at once so I can get a better idea of how much this is going to cost me.
azreal13 wrote: Codex will go up the evening of 04/04/14 for pre order (GMT) and will be on sale 12/04/14.
I have no source to confirm this, but I'd bet my house on it.
Disclaimer: Azreal13 does not own a house, and therefore cannot be obligated to bet it in anything.
Which codex? Tamponus? Surely not Astra Milivanilly one... BTW, there are several new pre-orders already added to GW site as of today.... Are you saying there will be even MORE added?
We don't have any solid info on rules yet, so close to release date... Let's speculate on stormtroopers, do you expect them to stay in their current position as elites, in the regular Astra Militarum codex ?
Meaning no vet' squad with carapace armour anymore ?
And what about their weapons ?
I have noticed that V6 codices do not show profiles of ordinary weapons, which have a description in p.56-57 of BRB. They simply refer to BRB.
And, this is where it can get annoying, hot shot lasgun IS listed among laser weapons paragraph.
Meaning, its unimpressive profile would probably be kept as it is (18 inch range S:3 AP:3 rapid fire).
azreal13 wrote: Codex will go up the evening of 04/04/14 for pre order (GMT) and will be on sale 12/04/14.
I have no source to confirm this, but I'd bet my house on it.
Disclaimer: Azreal13 does not own a house, and therefore cannot be obligated to bet it in anything.
Which codex? Tamponus? Surely not Astra Milivanilly one... BTW, there are several new pre-orders already added to GW site as of today.... Are you saying there will be even MORE added?
I'm sorry, I thought I was being clear, I failed to factor nervous overexcitement!
We already know "Codex" Stormtroopers goes on order the week previous, we have it in black and white. We also know that the last proper army update under the new system (Dwarves) launched the book proper in the second week's wave.
It's all simple extrapolation, but I have every confidence this will pan out.
The pic says it all from original 1st page post. BTW, AT is not AM. AM will come later in April... AT is a supplement/allies codex like Imperial Knights codex...
I tried making the inquisition warbands into stormtroopers but it's just so overcosted and underpowered getting a BS 3 warrior with carapace and hot-shot. Also is there a reason they are releasing this supplement and models before the IG/AM codex? Chaos Space Marines -> Crimson Slaughter / Tau -> Farsight / Eldar -> Iyanden / Tyranids -> dataslates / Space marines -> Sentinels of Terra and Clan Raukaan (if you look at the GW webpage it states they have new warlord trains, who doesn't like trains right?)
Why are they breaking the mold with IG/AM? Sure you get people that are feining for IG so bad they'll grab the Tempestus Scions but you also will have people saving their money for IG/AM and not get it and then you get all the reviews and find they suck and GW loses money. What do you guys think?
3 of the 4 metal Ogryn models that were listed on GW's site up until today are now gone, as is Nork Deddog. I guess if anyone wants some of the current stormtroopers this might be a good time to snap them up.
ashcroft wrote: 3 of the 4 metal Ogryn models that were listed on GW's site up until today are now gone, as is Nork Deddog. I guess if anyone wants some of the current stormtroopers this might be a good time to snap them up.
The non-Kraskin Storm Trooper special weapons are off the US GW site. Ugh. I still needed some melta and plasma troopers.
Why do we need rules leaks? I am sooooooo excited with the new codex that went ahead and rearranged my IG to be able to use the DKoK Assault Brigade list. Now I'm holding my breath, anxious to see how GW scre... improves the Astra-I-don't-carus next month.
Las wrote: I don't understand the strong stance against treadcloths.
Neither do I. They look like something designed from a practical stand point - the Ogryn needed some sort of flexible ablative armour, and the Guard have track links in abundance, so their armour was designed to hook up to a small length of easily-replaceable armour.
Quite a good idea in my mind, and something that the AdMech certainly would not have done.
Because it looks stupid, and the ethos is also stupid. If what you said was accurate, they'd be better off starting in the middle of the chest, and they may as well make their shoulderpads out of the stuff as well. Also, the weight of tank tracks.
Ogryns whom casually drags chimeras to wounded so they can get the med kit is not concerned by weight.
If ill ever get Ogryns ill remember that shoulder pads out of tank treads...
Leth wrote: I cant wait to see what the stormtrooper army looks like. .
Going by the model release we've seen so far, and the precedence set by the Knights codex, the codex will have a Command Squad, with the rest of the army made up of Stormtrooper Squads.
The non-Kraskin Storm Trooper special weapons are off the US GW site. Ugh. I still needed some melta and plasma troopers.
Hmmm, still available within 24h here in Europe. Maybe try to change your defined country on GW's website.
Don't worry, they will still be findable on ebay for years.
Leth wrote: I cant wait to see what the stormtrooper army looks like. .
Going by the model release we've seen so far, and the precedence set by the Knights codex, the codex will have a Command Squad, with the rest of the army made up of Stormtrooper Squads.
And 60 pages of fluff.
... riding in Taurox transports, along with valkyries. All of them lead by a lord commissar with splitable wolfguard-like commissar squad.
With its release date so close to IG regular book, maybe it will be a stand-alone codex, for those who like to ally them with space-nuns or inquisitors ?
Las wrote: I don't understand the strong stance against treadcloths.
Neither do I. They look like something designed from a practical stand point - the Ogryn needed some sort of flexible ablative armour, and the Guard have track links in abundance, so their armour was designed to hook up to a small length of easily-replaceable armour.
Quite a good idea in my mind, and something that the AdMech certainly would not have done.
Because it looks stupid, and the ethos is also stupid. If what you said was accurate, they'd be better off starting in the middle of the chest, and they may as well make their shoulderpads out of the stuff as well. Also, the weight of tank tracks.
Ogryns whom casually drags chimeras to wounded so they can get the med kit is not concerned by weight.
If ill ever get Ogryns ill remember that shoulder pads out of tank treads...
Corrosive ogryn urine and a fear if dark places is the reason why they need easily sourced, replaceable groin guards. That and drainage holes in the bottom of your chimera.
BrookM wrote: Putting platoon command squads in Salamanders, or using the old Salamander rules, replacing the squad with a command variant of the Salamander, would be an interesting choice.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tjnorwoo wrote: Would it be over powered to have veterans intermix with regular infantry squads in a platoon? I mean in the same way Nids can customize their guys within their units. For instance, what if you could make a platoon with a variety of different squads: conscripts, infantry, veterans, all together in the same platoon. In the fluff theres always a mix in squads of veterans and newbies when regiments get replenished
Ah, rolling for shooting and assaults is going to be so much fun with all those coloured dice.
you already have to split the dice up to account for all the special weapons, whats a few more colored dice gonna hurt.
You don't see how having vets, regular, and conscripts all grouped together might not be confusing?
You know, three troop types who are virtually identical to the average player and who will almost always have the same kit?
Well veterans are getting a new plastic model so it wouldn't be quite so confusing. Although, I get it may be just a tad bit too convoluted. What about having mini platoons of veterans? that would support the idea that as a regiment became more battle hardened it dwindled in size. A smaller veteran blob squad would be a whole lot nicer than my current 50+ man blob squad I use to outflank with.
Venatus on Faeit 212 wrote:Was at GW and the staff let me take a look from far away of the next White dwarf issue 9.
I can confirm IG are on it with that new transport on the cover.
reader on faeit212 wrote:So I got my hands on this weeks White Dwarf and had a flick though it, when a comment on Paint Splatter is of interest.
Pg. 25 - "Next Week: Into the Tempest".
It's a vague clue, but it could be a hint to next week's paint splatter being about how to paint the Stormtroopers. This itself implies that the whole Militarium Tempestus book is still going ahead, and that the leak from a few weeks ago was indeed very real.
Leth wrote: I cant wait to see what the stormtrooper army looks like. .
Going by the model release we've seen so far, and the precedence set by the Knights codex, the codex will have a Command Squad, with the rest of the army made up of Stormtrooper Squads.
And 60 pages of fluff.
Most other books I would be mad if there was too much fluff, which there is. But IG have a lot of fluff to cover so that wouldn't upset me too much, (on the grounds that the book was longer and they don't nickel and dime us to death with every stupid suppliment they can think of.) I just hope the new codex is on par with Space Marines, I think they almost deserve that. I'm basically setting myself up for disapointment, that way when I'm not disappointed I'll be all the more pleased.
You could say that for most of the long established armies though.
The Eldar Craftworlds, for example, have a long and varied history too. Whereas my beloved Mordian Iron Guard up until the latest book came out, had about 3 short pieces of fluff written about them in the last 20 years. And only 1 was particularly memorable (The Demon Invasion).
Compel wrote: You could say that for most of the long established armies though.
The Eldar Craftworlds, for example, have a long and varied history too. Whereas my beloved Mordian Iron Guard up until the latest book came out, had about 3 short pieces of fluff written about them in the last 20 years. And only 1 was particularly memorable (The Demon Invasion).
I'm just about to finish Gav Thorpe's 13th Legion and theres a short part about a convict lieutenant who inadvertantly leads a platoon of young and freshly drafted Mordian boys to victory/safety when fighting against chaos rebels. Pretty awesome story, makes me hope they have some regiment doctrines for Mordians in the new codex. Then I would buy some third party Mordian resin models for sure. I have two leman Russ tanks that I plan on modeling after fluff of an untested Mordian armoured company.
Palindrome wrote: As for the changes to veterans I dont mind the reduction of special weapons as long as there is far wider scope for variant basic equipment and doctrines. I would like to see the introduction of veteran platoons as well.
This is where these long-in-the-tooth threads get most frustrating, because (and this isn't an attack on you, Palindrome) it turns into commentary on speculation, but in order to confirm what you're reading is just speculation you have to read back through a load of speculation posts. I feel like there should be "speculate on N&R" threads that are separate from the actual N&R threads just so N&R can be a useful reference. Probably just my personal bugbear
It would be awesome if all unrelated and or unsubstantiated ideas could be off shooted into a complimentary thread, but there I go wishlisting again
krazynadechukr wrote: Post deleted. Dakka takes a very dim view of advocating copyright infringement. --Janthkin
No, no, I bought the book (My GW wont allow returns). Copied what I needed (via iPhone & Android pad). Sold the book on ebay. Broke even. Is that copyright infringement?
krazynadechukr wrote: Post deleted. Dakka takes a very dim view of advocating copyright infringement. --Janthkin
No, no, I bought the book (My GW wont allow returns). Copied what I needed (via iPhone & Android pad). Sold the book on ebay. Broke even. Is that copyright infringement?
More importantly, was it a rumor or news regarding IG or AM.......?
krazynadechukr wrote: Post deleted. Dakka takes a very dim view of advocating copyright infringement. --Janthkin
No, no, I bought the book (My GW wont allow returns). Copied what I needed (via iPhone & Android pad). Sold the book on ebay. Broke even. Is that copyright infringement?
More importantly, was it a rumor or news regarding IG or AM.......?
Yes, yes it was. I was remarking on the units that are in the at codex... As witnessed by a GW high up manager. Oh well.
The real question is- Can you play a game with that method of "Codex creep"?
I'm not a real fan of the I phone kids walking in and thinking I'm going to go with that. I'm old school as it gets, you'd better be bringing in the books, or something of substance.
I have a company of Ogryn. The real question on deck- what is the weapons load out, do they have their own heavy weapon section, or are around 20 or so ripper guns a bit much from an abhuman wave assault, before I roll in the tanks? not even going to start on the added rats in the back with the covering sniper fire, and the red red groovy flows.
BunkerBob wrote: Has anyone else thought that maybe they have managed to plug all of the leakers? That is why nothing is getting out perhaps?
My guess is the business strategy previously supported leakers, but now with the new white dwarf it conflicts with their business model of have white dwarf exclusive leaks "spies" are no longer necessary to generate buzz. I like things the old way, getting rumors from the streets, makes me feel a whole lot more like a baddie
Grot 6 wrote: The real question is- Can you play a game with that method of "Codex creep"?
I'm not a real fan of the I phone kids walking in and thinking I'm going to go with that. I'm old school as it gets, you'd better be bringing in the books, or something of substance.
Wow, guess my digital downloaded codexes have been nullified then.
AT codex has scions, scion command, allies chart almost identical to knights, taurox and upgrade/weapons variations, ogryns with upgrade options & bulls...can be allies or from what I was told nearly a stand alone army! Several mentions to use other codexes, like for Valkyrie, chimeras, etc...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw, I always print out hard copies of my digital dexes... Just for those types.
Metal ogryns are being removed from GW's website now (only one remaining).
This pisses me off (sorry for being vulgar). I was waiting for leaked info / rules for if they would become playable, before committing to pay 70€ for a set of them.
Now I will just have to look at this uninspired goofy plastic version.
I noticed a couple of months ago some of the DKOK stuff was going "out of stock", more has gone out of stock now.
Was hoping it was because something new was happening (and hoping it wasn't because they were dropping DKOK).
Emailed FW and they said it was because some of the moulds were in poor shape and needed to go back to the design studio for fixing up.
Might hold off on any DKOK purchases until they come back, FW stuff is dodgy enough without also getting the last few models before moulds are replaced, lol.
Oh, these inconvenience about resin moulds happen all the time.
Despite the casting being done at room temperature, resin casting is quite harsh for silicon moulds, because of materials gluing to each other.
Yeah, they said it could be up to a month, but I think it's now been more than a month since they went out of stock and more DKOK kits have gone out of stock since then.
Ravajaxe wrote: Metal ogryns are being removed from GW's website now (only one remaining).
This pisses me off (sorry for being vulgar). I was waiting for leaked info / rules for if they would become playable, before committing to pay 70€ for a set of them.
Now I will just have to look at this uninspired goofy plastic version.
Seriously?
If you know a new book is coming and you know a new kit is coming, then buy the old models you like.
At worst--you've overpaid for a unit that will be crap. At best--you've underpaid for a unit that is now pretty awesome in the new book and have a unique looking unit that other people are going to have to hunt on eBay for.
At this point, we have no indication if ogryns will stay in the cupboard. We already know that for some recent dual-unit kits, one is good, the other is trash. Maybe Bullgryns are the only viable choice ? Current price for an ogryn set is quite high, and at 4 models, the unit is barely complete. Six ogryns would be nice (105 € = 145 $). I'm just not willing to put a bet at this price level.
krazynadechukr wrote: Post deleted. Dakka takes a very dim view of advocating copyright infringement. --Janthkin
No, no, I bought the book (My GW wont allow returns). Copied what I needed (via iPhone & Android pad). Sold the book on ebay. Broke even. Is that copyright infringement?
So long as you deleted the copies when you sold the original, no.
410mcollins wrote: Anyone noticed the storm troopers are now in troops and elites on the sight
They have been for ages, that's nothing new.
They were not in Troops.
Please don't use your posterior to project your voice.
The 4 model pack of Stormies has been in the Troops section of GW's IG range showcase on the site purely since at the very least Christmas or just before it when I contemplated buying them and checked them many times debating internally on whether or not to wait.
krazynadechukr wrote: Post deleted. Dakka takes a very dim view of advocating copyright infringement. --Janthkin
No, no, I bought the book (My GW wont allow returns). Copied what I needed (via iPhone & Android pad). Sold the book on ebay. Broke even. Is that copyright infringement?
So long as you deleted the copies when you sold the original, no.
I deleted the 4 pics. Afterall, I have the WD that has the 2 pages (that are in the codex too), and I'll just use the store's courtesy copy when I am there...
Andilus Greatsword wrote: Dunno if this has been said yet, but still no advanced orders... or will that be tomorrow instead?
Erm, what?
Pre order for the VSG went up last night (GMT) and sold out almost immediately. The pre orders for IG were never expected until next week, and will go up Friday evening as is the new formula.
When I worked for GW, we all got our codexes about 2-3 weeks before theywere due to sell, so we could read and be able to make selling points to trade stores. That's a primary way that leaks happened.
General Hobbs wrote: When I worked for GW, we all got our codexes about 2-3 weeks before theywere due to sell, so we could read and be able to make selling points to trade stores. That's a primary way that leaks happened.
In the good old days, those weren't leaks. Games Workshop deliberately sent new products out to stores in advance of the release date to build up interest.
General Hobbs wrote: When I worked for GW, we all got our codexes about 2-3 weeks before theywere due to sell, so we could read and be able to make selling points to trade stores. That's a primary way that leaks happened.
In the good old days, those weren't leaks. Games Workshop deliberately sent new products out to stores in advance of the release date to build up interest.
While models were sent out, codexes and rules were not. Hence the Storm of Chaos purge that was designed to find out who the big leaker was.
H.B.M.C. wrote: 'Cause the last thing we want is our customer base getting excited about upcoming products.
Total unending secrecy, even in the face of Armageddon!
Um... I hate to break it to you but it worked on you. You had no clue about the void shield generator a week ago and sprung at the chance with only days of LEAKED notice. Why should they spend time/money/effort to advertise?
warboss wrote: Um... I hate to break it to you but it worked on you. You had no clue about the void shield generator a week ago and sprung at the chance with only days of LEAKED notice. Why should they spend time/money/effort to advertise?
The only reason we knew about it was due to leaked information. GW said nothing about it until they put it up for pre-orders.
warboss wrote: Um... I hate to break it to you but it worked on you. You had no clue about the void shield generator a week ago and sprung at the chance with only days of LEAKED notice. Why should they spend time/money/effort to advertise?
The only reason we knew about it was due to leaked information. GW said nothing about it until they put it up for pre-orders.
I think he is trying to say that people leaked the into, advertising for GW, and since it sold out so fast it seemed to have worked so why should GW bother paying to advertise.
The response to which would be that selling out all of 1,000 units is nothing special and that every other retail company in the history of forever seems to recognize the importance of marketing, and GW are not the exception.
Andilus Greatsword wrote: Dunno if this has been said yet, but still no advanced orders... or will that be tomorrow instead?
Erm, what?
Pre order for the VSG went up last night (GMT) and sold out almost immediately. The pre orders for IG were never expected until next week, and will go up Friday evening as is the new formula.
First page says multiple times that preorders were predicted for Mar. 22nd for the Codex.
Andilus Greatsword wrote: Dunno if this has been said yet, but still no advanced orders... or will that be tomorrow instead?
Erm, what?
Pre order for the VSG went up last night (GMT) and sold out almost immediately. The pre orders for IG were never expected until next week, and will go up Friday evening as is the new formula.
First page says multiple times that preorders were predicted for Mar. 22nd for the Codex.
Thread title implies that the April releases were pushed back to April
Does anyone else find it odd that there's no mention of plastic character models? I was convinced that there was going to be a plastic commissar at the very least...
Perfect Organism wrote: Does anyone else find it odd that there's no mention of plastic character models? I was convinced that there was going to be a plastic commissar at the very least...
Not really, given that we already have the plastic command squad. Not surprised there's no plastic commissars either, given we have 4 basic commissar models already + steel legion commissar + Yarrick + DKOK commissars.
None of them are plastic, though? How long will they keep finecast in production? We know they're not destroying all the moulds post haste, but they haven't introduced new sculpts that way, and it would seem like a reasonable assumption to...
Perfect Organism wrote: Does anyone else find it odd that there's no mention of plastic character models? I was convinced that there was going to be a plastic commissar at the very least...
Not really, given that we already have the plastic command squad. Not surprised there's no plastic commissars either, given we have 4 basic commissar models already + steel legion commissar + Yarrick + DKOK commissars.
So far we've only seen two "release waves" for the Guard stuff. One is the Militarum Tempestus "wave", with the Stormtrooper Command squad/Stormtrooper squad dual box and the Taurox Prime/Taurox and the Militarum Tempestus codex.
The other is the Astra Militarum "wave", with the Astra Militarum codex, the Ogryn and Bullgryn dual box and the Hydra dual box.
GW is pushing for each army to have at least one plastic clamshell blister character so I would be really surprised if we do not see one.
Kanluwen wrote: GW is pushing for each army to have at least one plastic clamshell blister character so I would be really surprised if we do not see one.
The Tyranids didn't get one, did they? Although Tyranids do seem to be the 'odd one out' in a lot of ways.
warboss wrote: Um... I hate to break it to you but it worked on you. You had no clue about the void shield generator a week ago and sprung at the chance with only days of LEAKED notice. Why should they spend time/money/effort to advertise?
The only reason we knew about it was due to leaked information. GW said nothing about it until they put it up for pre-orders.
My point is that they did practically nothing to advertise it and they sold out in minutes. Granted it was a modest world wide supply but they sold out in minutes nonetheless and made an easy $100,000. They have no reason to advertise is they meet their own goals so spectacularly without spending the time/money/effort to plug their products. It's odd that you complain about it yet fell for it completely hook, line, and sinker. As long as there as thousands of people like yourself, they don't need to advertise. Just in case it's not clear, I'm not trying to insult you or anything but rather point out that complaining about the lack of notice when you yourself frankly don't need any notice to jump at the chance to buy new unannounced products is contradictory. You may want advertising but why should they spend the money on it since it won't affect their bottom line for these types of releases? The only reason to advertise is to sell more which would be pointless for a limited release as thousands of people are willing to jump on stuff with no notice.
Kanluwen wrote: GW is pushing for each army to have at least one plastic clamshell blister character so I would be really surprised if we do not see one.
The Tyranids didn't get one, did they? Although Tyranids do seem to be the 'odd one out' in a lot of ways.
They didn't get one, but I think the only viable option would have been Deathleaper--which, purportedly, has never been a stellar selling model in Finecast or metal. Another option would have been a Broodlord I guess, but he's not an HQ.
I think with Tyranids there's a bit of a weirdness when it comes to characters.
warboss wrote: Um... I hate to break it to you but it worked on you. You had no clue about the void shield generator a week ago and sprung at the chance with only days of LEAKED notice. Why should they spend time/money/effort to advertise?
The only reason we knew about it was due to leaked information. GW said nothing about it until they put it up for pre-orders.
But it didn't make any difference. If the info wasn't leaked, it probably would have sold out in a couple of days instead of 1.
I still am of the opinion that GW isn't necessarily wrong in their strategy of not releasing info prior to releasing the models. I'm not going to go as far to say they're right either, but I don't think it's as clear cut as all that. IMO, miniature sales are more likely to be impulse sales than hype sales. Also unlike video games and movies, miniatures are sold for the same amount at release as they are 3 months after release, so where video games benefit from massive day 1 and/or preorder sales, miniatures it doesn't really matter if you buy them in the first week, the first month or the first year.
Now, I think they could benefit from more mainstream advertising, but I'm not convinced they benefit from prerelease advertising.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: But it didn't make any difference. If the info wasn't leaked, it probably would have sold out in a couple of days instead of 1..
In retrospect? Yes.
But there is nothing saying GW could've known that ahead of time. It could've just as easily been the next DreadFleet.
GW has recent experiences with plastic terrain kits (Aquila Strongpoint, etc..)
GW knows how many Stronghold Assault books they sold.
So the VSG proved significantly more popular than GW had guessed based on the above two? Great for them. But hardly a DreadFleet-style disaster. And by capping explicitly as LE, they also avoided looking like the dumbasses FFG currently are being once again with their inability to ship Imperial Aces for X-Wing. GW's been there before when demand exploded beyond all expectations (e.g. Riptide). So they played it safe.
Spoiler:
Dear ---------------,
We have an update for you regarding your order for the Imperial Aces expansion for X-Wing (reference ------------).
Unfortunately Fantasy Flight Games have made significantly less of this product available to retailers than was needed. This has meant that at present there is around 10% of the required stock available to us and other retailers. Because of this we are sending out copies of this expansion in order of priority to those customers who placed their orders first and have been waiting the longest. We are also limiting copies to one per order to ensure that the maximum number of customers benefit from this limited supply. If your order is one of those being fulfilled by this initial stock we will notify you shortly (if we have not already done so).
We are confident that more stock is on its way from Fantasy Flight Games and we will get your copy to you, but this may take several weeks for the new stock to reach you. We will of course keep you notified as we receive further information.
If you do not want to wait and would rather cancel your order, please contact us and we shall action that for you immediately.
We sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused. We are fans of X-Wing and assure you we are just as disappointed by this current development but are working hard with suppliers to source more stock of this highly sought after expansion.
It's a pity not everyone who wanted got one, but that is arguably the point of a Limited Edition.
Frankly, the only way I could think of for companies like FFG or GW to match production runs to demand and not be left sitting on stock taking up expensive warhouses, would be to "pre-measure" demand with sites like Kickstarter.com (or a clone of that on their own website, still diverting FLGS though). But we all know what kind of [Please find a different way to express yourself - thanks! - Alpharius] that would start.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: But it didn't make any difference. If the info wasn't leaked, it probably would have sold out in a couple of days instead of 1..
In retrospect? Yes.
But there is nothing saying GW could've known that ahead of time. It could've just as easily been the next DreadFleet.
GW has recent experiences with plastic terrain kits (Aquila Strongpoint, etc..) GW knows how many Stronghold Assault books they sold.
My point wasn't so much that it was bad they sold out, but rather that they didn't need to do prerelease advertising when they sold out in a few minutes with nothing more than a leak 1 or so weeks prior, even without the leak they probably would have sold out in a day or two.
So the product proved significantly more popular than GW had guessed? Great for them. But hardly a DreadFleet-style disaster. And by capping explicitly as LE, they also avoided looking like the dumbasses FFG currently are being once again with their inability to ship Imperial Aces for X-Wing. GW's been there before when demand exploded beyond all expectations (e.g. Riptide). So they played it safe.
Except they are going to look like arses because according to the other thread, they DID over sell the kits....
a reader on Faeit 212 wrote:Just heard that the void shield generators have been over sold, so even if you have confirmation of order you may not be getting one! I'm one of the unlucky ones :-( they took payment but no order for confirmation. I was talking to customer service and they confirmed they had not only charged to many people, but they had indeed over sold them. Some people will be very unhappy soon...
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Except they are going to look like arses because according to the other thread, they DID over sell the kits....
Sure. If they indeed oversold, it'll be a feth-up. But I'd wait until next weeks shipping, and see if this actually is true and people who paid won't get one, before passing judgement.
Either way, GW has a week to "fix" it. Perhaps we get a few sneaking "LE Chaos Space Marines Codex"-style extra copies if they (truly) oversold by a few.
Or perhaps the Faeit-"reader" is just pissed and slinging mud, cause he didn't get one. I find it unlikely (though not impossible, just unlikely) that some GW customer-service guy would (a) know and (b) tell random-person-on-the-phone that they screwed up big time.
Either way, GW has a week to "fix" it. Perhaps we get a few sneaking "LE Chaos Space Marines Codex"-style extra copies if they (truly) oversold by a few.
Frankly, the only way I could think of for companies like FFG or GW to match production runs to demand and not be left sitting on stock taking up expensive warhouses, would be to "pre-measure" demand with sites like Kickstarter.com (or a clone of that on their own website, still diverting FLGS though). But we all know what kind of [Please find a different way to express yourself - thanks! - Alpharius] that would start.
Well they could have a real pre-order period where they gauge interest instead of just the one week. It irked me to no end that they used to have a week of pre-orders where things sell out and then sometimes only mention the product in WD a week or two later.
Even now it was sold out before WH:Visions was officially available.
Zweischneid wrote: And by capping explicitly as LE, they also avoided looking like the dumbasses FFG currently are being once again with their inability to ship Imperial Aces for X-Wing. GW's been there before when demand exploded beyond all expectations (e.g. Riptide). So they played it safe.
That is an incredibly stupid argument, Zwei. If one of your products sells ten times better than you predicted, you work hard to meet that unexpected demand and thus make up to ten times more money. You don't just sit there with your thumb up your ass and pretend that selling out of pre-orders 7 days before release is meaningfully better than selling out 6 days before release. That is money left on the table. That makes you look like a dumbass.
Zweischneid wrote: And by capping explicitly as LE, they also avoided looking like the dumbasses FFG currently are being once again with their inability to ship Imperial Aces for X-Wing. GW's been there before when demand exploded beyond all expectations (e.g. Riptide). So they played it safe.
That is an incredibly stupid argument, Zwei. If one of your products sells ten times better than you predicted, you work hard to meet that unexpected demand and thus make up to ten times more money. You don't just sit there with your thumb up your ass and pretend that selling out of pre-orders 7 days before release is meaningfully better than selling out 6 days before release. That is money left on the table. That makes you look like a dumbass.
I don't think GW is pretending that their quick sold-out is anything, positive or negative. They had a production run and it's gone. They had a production run of the LE Imperial Knights Codex and are still sitting on more than half of it.
Just the way it is. Some things go quickly, some things don't. Again, in retrospect, GW could've sold more of the VSG. I also think they wish they'd only made 500 or perhaps only 250 of the LE Imperial Knights Codex, not 1000. Hindsight is always easy. But that doesn't mean the VSG was a bad move.
I keep hearing this stupid argument about how GW is "proud" of selling LE-things fast? Is there a link to these kinda boasts? Because I can't find them. Sure, LE is a tool to push sales into a smaller timeframe, but a sale is still a sale in the books and financial reports as far as I can see, LE or not.
Zweischneid wrote: And by capping explicitly as LE, they also avoided looking like the dumbasses FFG currently are being once again with their inability to ship Imperial Aces for X-Wing. GW's been there before when demand exploded beyond all expectations (e.g. Riptide). So they played it safe.
That is an incredibly stupid argument, Zwei. If one of your products sells ten times better than you predicted, you work hard to meet that unexpected demand and thus make up to ten times more money. You don't just sit there with your thumb up your ass and pretend that selling out of pre-orders 7 days before release is meaningfully better than selling out 6 days before release. That is money left on the table. That makes you look like a dumbass.
For the record, I'm expecting my Imperial Aces tomorrow.
Zweischneid wrote: And by capping explicitly as LE, they also avoided looking like the dumbasses FFG currently are being once again with their inability to ship Imperial Aces for X-Wing. GW's been there before when demand exploded beyond all expectations (e.g. Riptide). So they played it safe.
That is an incredibly stupid argument, Zwei. If one of your products sells ten times better than you predicted, you work hard to meet that unexpected demand and thus make up to ten times more money. You don't just sit there with your thumb up your ass and pretend that selling out of pre-orders 7 days before release is meaningfully better than selling out 6 days before release. That is money left on the table. That makes you look like a dumbass.
I don't think GW is pretending that their quick sold-out is anything, positive or negative. They had a production run and it's gone. They had a production run of the LE Imperial Knights Codex and are still sitting on more than half of it.
Just the way it is. Some things go quickly, some things don't. Again, in retrospect, GW could've sold more of the VSG. I also think they wish they'd only made 500 or perhaps only 250 of the LE Imperial Knights Codex, not 1000. Hindsight is always easy. But that doesn't mean the VSG was a bad move.
I keep hearing this stupid argument about how GW is "proud" of selling LE-things fast? Is there a link to these kinda boasts? Because I can't find them. Sure, LE is a tool to push sales into a smaller timeframe, but a sale is still a sale in the books and financial reports as far as I can see, LE or not.
You know what doesn't show in the books and financial reports?
All the sales that didn't happen because there wasn't stock in hand to fulfil demand.
You know what doesn't show in the books and financial reports?
All the sales that didn't happen because there wasn't stock in hand to fulfil demand.
Yes. But you know what does show?
All the unsold product regularly destroyed to keep expensive storage to a minimum, as well as the cost of producing it, and the costs of a bloated inventory that has far too much "we'll stock this forever", when a leaner GW could probably live with half of their current range as "always available" and move a lot more to "LE" or "until stocks lasts". 90% of the board game and miniatures gaming (and book) industry runs entirely on this concept.
There's a print-run for... dunno... FFG's Imperial Aces or Z-Man Games latest Board Game or the latest MtG expansion or the latest Twilight Novel. And when it's gone, it's gone. If it sells exceptionally well, there might be a second (and third) print-run. But not unless people are confident the entire new print-run will also sell again. If not, they don't bother. Storing stuff over long periods isn't worth it. Only GW even bothers with a good size of their range.
The (real) costs of having too much of something far exceed the (opportunity) costs of having not enough of something.
Then you make another production run. Smart companies notice that people want to buy their product and actually do something about it, by selling them their product.
Zweischneid wrote: All the unsold product regularly destroyed to keep expensive storage to a minimum, as well as the cost of producing it, and the costs of a bloated inventory that has far too much "we'll stock this forever", when a leaner GW could probably live with half of their current range as "always available" and move a lot more to "LE" or "until stocks lasts".
If that happens then Games Workshop should die. Such a company would be a parasite that is fundamentally at odds with the customer's goals of bringing in new blood so they can actually play a game, and we'd all be better off if they stopped sucking up so much of the oxygen in the room.
You know what doesn't show in the books and financial reports?
All the sales that didn't happen because there wasn't stock in hand to fulfil demand.
Yes. But you know what does show?
All the unsold product regularly destroyed to keep expensive storage to a minimum, as well as the cost of producing it, and the costs of a bloated inventory that has far too much "we'll stock this forever", when a leaner GW could probably live with half of their current range as "always available" and move a lot more to "LE" or "until stocks lasts". 90% of the board game and miniatures gaming (and book) industry runs entirely on this concept.
Except this seldom happens, as your inventory is an asset, and if you've been stuck with it for a while, you can devalue it and offset the reduction in value against tax.
But, as mentioned, if you're doing this frequently, you deserve to fail. In the day and age where even I, as essentially a one man operation, can employ a system which can provide me with extensive info about my sales and the composition of SKUs that comprise them, and predict future sales based in that, and you're also the market leader with 30 years of experience selling your product, what does this say about the level of competence on show?
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AllSeeingSkink wrote: Maybe we should at the very least try and keep the discussion about IG if not IG rumours.
You're very right, I nearly fell into the "weekend click bait trap," I must be more careful.
On the stock storage issues in the uk any stock held at the end of the tax year (march 31 this year) is added up at retail value and tax has to be paid on it, so releasing a high price kit with limited numbers in march to ensure it's gone buy the end of the month makes sense from the bean counters point.
But this is way off topic.
Back on topic is there any hints as to rules of the imp guard yet? And the new ogryns look good to me but I've got 6 of the metal ones so unless they get a mega rules boost I won't get them.
warboss wrote: The only reason to advertise is to sell more which would be pointless for a limited release as thousands of people are willing to jump on stuff with no notice.
That's not actually the only reason. But the other is something that GW seem to be no longer concerned with - Customer Perception.
Here's the thing: You're releasing, say, a terrain piece that will be limited to 1000 pieces. You don't start advertising it until the day it goes up for pre-sale, in a magazine which many people won't get until several hours at best after the kit has already gone on sale and been sold out. The end result is a bunch of extremely unhappy customers who feel like they were mistreated due to not being told about this release until after it was no longer available, so they never had a chance to get one.
Now let's say that instead, you included a sneak peak of the kit an issue or two in advance. Due to the limited nature of the kit, you're still going to have people who won't be able to get one, and will be unhappy about that fact... but those people are at least going to feel like they were given a chance to get one, by being told in advance when it would go on sale.
Limited editions are always going to make people cranky when they can't get one. But you can minimise the fallout from that by at least giving them the chance to get one.
Looks like Codex: Storm Troopers got their own bad teaser trailer from GW. Not sure but think this could be the first time a supplement got one of the trailers? Here it is in all its... briefness:
Melcavuk wrote: Looks like Codex: Storm Troopers got their own bad teaser trailer from GW. Not sure but think this could be the first time a supplement got one of the trailers?
Maybe GW counts on the fact that many impatient customers will mix up the Codex Militarum Tempestus and the new IG Codex, buying it and then finding out their mistake and then buying the Codex Astra Militarum as well.
Melcavuk wrote: Looks like Codex: Storm Troopers got their own bad teaser trailer from GW. Not sure but think this could be the first time a supplement got one of the trailers?
Maybe GW counts on the fact that many impatient customers will mix up the Codex Militarum Tempestus and the new IG Codex, buying it and then finding out their mistake and then buying the Codex Astra Militarum as well.
Pretty much.
They are releasing dexes in the middle of the month to stretch out the initial sales. Because after the initial release sales drop like a rock. And this is fact, I was shown this by the higher ups during my time with the great enemy.
Melcavuk wrote: Looks like Codex: Storm Troopers got their own bad teaser trailer from GW. Not sure but think this could be the first time a supplement got one of the trailers?
Maybe GW counts on the fact that many impatient customers will mix up the Codex Militarum Tempestus and the new IG Codex, buying it and then finding out their mistake and then buying the Codex Astra Militarum as well.
Pretty much.
They are releasing dexes in the middle of the month to stretch out the initial sales. Because after the initial release sales drop like a rock. And this is fact, I was shown this by the higher ups during my time with the great enemy.
That's true of pretty much all retail. Spike of sales in the first week or month and then dwindling there after. The Imperial Knight sold out in the first day at my local GW and they had quite a few of them, I'm willing to bet the current batch will last weeks if not months before selling out.
I overheard kids looking at the Imperial Knight last friday. They were amazed that adults would pay so much money for such a small product. One of them actually posited that it must be limited edition to be priced as such.
I don't play guard, but i wonder what this supplement will mean for Guard players who like Storm Troopers and Ogryn. Specifically, as it stands now they can put them in their army using the single codex they already own. Will this supplement require them to make an additional purchase once their Astra Militarum book is released? I hope not.
Maybe it's more akin to codex: Legion of the Damned, where the units contained within it are the same as the parent codex, so you can ally that particular model or unit without taking the rest of the codex along with it. I hope so - it would just seem unfair to do it any other way.
Melcavuk wrote: Looks like Codex: Storm Troopers got their own bad teaser trailer from GW. Not sure but think this could be the first time a supplement got one of the trailers?
Maybe GW counts on the fact that many impatient customers will mix up the Codex Militarum Tempestus and the new IG Codex, buying it and then finding out their mistake and then buying the Codex Astra Militarum as well.
Pretty much.
They are releasing dexes in the middle of the month to stretch out the initial sales. Because after the initial release sales drop like a rock. And this is fact, I was shown this by the higher ups during my time with the great enemy.
People in "Getting new things they want as soon as they can get them" shocker. More at 11
Redemption wrote: They're releasing Militarum Tempestus before the Astra Militarum? That would mean the MT isn't simply a supplemental codex to AM then.
It could still be that, or something similar, if it followed the example of Codex: Inquisition and Codex: LotD. Mini-dex with 3 or 4 unit choices only, with it's own FOC and rules for allying with other armies or running as a primary.
What i'm hoping is if that's the case, Storm Troopers and Ogryn (and anything else in the book that's IG specific) get their own unit entries in the Astra Militarum book when it releases, so Guard players don't have to double-dip codex books just to field their existing armies.
Well, judging from the colour schemes and box sets they'll at least have Scions, Command Squads, the Taurox Prime, Bullgryns and the Valkyrie in their codex.
Redemption wrote: They're releasing Militarum Tempestus before the Astra Militarum? That would mean the MT isn't simply a supplemental codex to AM then.
GW learned that they sell more copies if they call it Codex instead of supplement, so we now have several one or two unit Codices.like Codex Imperial Knights, Codex LotD and Codex Inquisition.
Redemption wrote: They're releasing Militarum Tempestus before the Astra Militarum? That would mean the MT isn't simply a supplemental codex to AM then.
GW learned that they sell more copies if they call it Codex instead of supplement, so we now have several one or two unit Codices.like Codex Imperial Knights, Codex LotD and Codex Inquisition.
No, because the supplements weren't standalone before, whereas those Codexes are. If MT is standalone, then it's a codex, if it's additional units that can be taken as part of a Codex:IG/AM army, then it's a supplement. Stop stirring. They do enough shady gak without you inventing more.
Redemption wrote: They're releasing Militarum Tempestus before the Astra Militarum? That would mean the MT isn't simply a supplemental codex to AM then.
GW learned that they sell more copies if they call it Codex instead of supplement, so we now have several one or two unit Codices.like Codex Imperial Knights, Codex LotD and Codex Inquisition.
'
Yes, because Crimson Slaughter and Raukaan are totally codices and do not have supplement in the name
Codices contain within them all the units and rules pertinent to that army, and can be fielded alone with no other books. (though in the case of LotD, that's an auto-lose scenario..but 7th edition may change that in the future....digress)
Supplements contain new rules for a particular faction, usually by way of USRs, Artifacts, and Warlord Traits, but do not actually contain any unit entries (aside from special characters or units with alternate stats like the eight, or possessed with a different mutation table). Those particular books cannot be called "Codex" because they require an additional book to provide rules and points costs for the models within.
A slight, but important difference to remember between the two when seeing new releases labeled as "Codex" and "Supplement".
The March 29th preorders are for the following items:
Taurox Prime/Taurox (the battlebus) for $48.
Miltarum Tempestus Command Squad/Scion 5 man box for $35.
Codex: Militarum Tempestus (direct order item) for $50.
They officially release on April 5th. The new Ogryn plastics and the new Hydra and the Codex: Astra Militarum do not release until later. Prices are USD.
Turalon wrote: So the supplement for the stormtroopers will be before the new guard book? That's odd.
Seems to suggest that they are looking to take the auxilia/ stormtrooper units a new direction. I take it that they want to rebrand them more as units that accompany all Imperial forces instead of just the guard. I wouldn't be surprised to see stormtroopers taken out of the Guard book altogether, and kasrkin-like heavy infantry units replace them in their niche in the codex. Just a thought.
More than excited for the Scions though. I'll be buying many boxes
Turalon wrote: So the supplement for the stormtroopers will be before the new guard book? That's odd.
Seems to suggest that they are looking to take the auxilia/ stormtrooper units a new direction. I take it that they want to rebrand them more as units that accompany all Imperial forces instead of just the guard. I wouldn't be surprised to see stormtroopers taken out of the Guard book altogether, and kasrkin-like heavy infantry units replace them in their niche in the codex. Just a thought.
More than excited for the Scions though. I'll be buying many boxes
The March 29th preorders are for the following items:
Taurox Prime/Taurox (the battlebus) for $48.
Miltarum Tempestus Command Squad/Scion 5 man box for $35.
Codex: Militarum Tempestus (direct order item) for $50.
They officially release on April 5th. The new Ogryn plastics and the new Hydra and the Codex: Astra Militarum do not release until later. Prices are USD.
If this was 5th edition, and all these supplements (let's be honest, that's what they are, regardless of naming) were softcover and relatively inexpensive, it'd be cool.
When a single army can be $150 in army books (Say, 3rd Company IF with a Knight), plus an expensive BRB, that's patently insane. At least with the gouging the 'nids have been getting, they can buy smaller chunks of, in theory, just the particular rules they want for their army.
I bought all the rules I needed for Bolt Action for $40, and the BRB is hardcover no less, and the expanded army list book cost less than $20, and was completely future-proofed, with army lists for different eras, formations and so on.
The model sticker shock is certainly a big barrier, but how can you sell this game to someone when not only will the plastic models cost ~$400 or more, but you have to spend between $150 minimum on rules, up to a possible max for a single reasonably fluff force of $250. Maybe add in ForgeWorld and go for a full $330.
As someone who's already invested, buying the one hardcover codex isn't the end of the world, as by the looks of things I won't be buying any of the new models, but I'm seeing more and more barriers to newcomers, and they're GW's supposed target market.
It really says something that I'm buying all my X-Wing stuff from the FLGS to justify my presence to keep playing 40k, as so much of the new stuff seems astronomically priced or of questionable design. (Note, I buy an awful lot of X-Wing stuff).
Turalon wrote: So the supplement for the stormtroopers will be before the new guard book? That's odd.
I wouldn't be surprised to see stormtroopers taken out of the Guard book altogether, and kasrkin-like heavy infantry units replace them in their niche in the codex. Just a thought.
Especially if they stick to the Astra Militarium / Imperial Guard is almost all Cadian or versions of the same as they seem to be have been doing in the fluff / imagery - sadly in my view - I love all the varied Guard Regiments.......
Before I saw this thread I was excited at the prospect of a new IG codex.
Now, not so much. I'm seeing these new (fugly) models and the Stormtrooper codex and hearing the comments that Cruddace got in trouble with GW for making the IG "so good" last edition (I certainly never saw how OP they were, but then.. I don't own any vendettas or nine manticores) and I'm wondering if this new codex is going to be the Imperial equivalent to the Tyranid codex. You know; SCs dropped for not having models (with Finecast being taken out back and shot, will they still bother with rules for models that currently only exist in metal? Like Al'Rahem or Chenkov?) otherwise decent units becoming overcosted, units getting dropped or nerfed to the point of uselessness, units getting dropped for lack of models (does anyone see GW releasing actual Penal Legion models?)... seriously; I'm worried.
We're seeing only some of the new models for the army, but I've seen comments here that the IG are only supposed to get X number of new kits, and that we have seen most of X number in this thread. Which leaves precious little for them to really do anything with the army. They don't have enough kits left in X number to re-do the Catachan models (desperately needed), re-do the Rough Riders (also desperately needed), do up Penal Legion models (needed if they want to avoid IP fights later on) and so forth.
squidhills wrote: Before I saw this thread I was excited at the prospect of a new IG codex.
Now, not so much. I'm seeing these new (fugly) models and the Stormtrooper codex and hearing the comments that Cruddace got in trouble with GW for making the IG "so good" last edition (I certainly never saw how OP they were, but then.. I don't own any vendettas or nine manticores) and I'm wondering if this new codex is going to be the Imperial equivalent to the Tyranid codex. You know; SCs dropped for not having models (with Finecast being taken out back and shot, will they still bother with rules for models that currently only exist in metal? Like Al'Rahem or Chenkov?) otherwise decent units becoming overcosted, units getting dropped or nerfed to the point of uselessness, units getting dropped for lack of models (does anyone see GW releasing actual Penal Legion models?)... seriously; I'm worried.
We're seeing only some of the new models for the army, but I've seen comments here that the IG are only supposed to get X number of new kits, and that we have seen most of X number in this thread. Which leaves precious little for them to really do anything with the army. They don't have enough kits left in X number to re-do the Catachan models (desperately needed), re-do the Rough Riders (also desperately needed), do up Penal Legion models (needed if they want to avoid IP fights later on) and so forth.
The more I read, the more worried I get.
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Turalon wrote: So the supplement for the stormtroopers will be before the new guard book? That's odd.
Turalon wrote: So the supplement for the stormtroopers will be before the new guard book? That's odd.
I wouldn't be surprised to see stormtroopers taken out of the Guard book altogether, and kasrkin-like heavy infantry units replace them in their niche in the codex. Just a thought.
Especially if they stick to the Astra Militarium / Imperial Guard is almost all Cadian or versions of the same as they seem to be have been doing in the fluff / imagery - sadly in my view - I love all the varied Guard Regiments.......
I wouldn't worry too much about that...
The Imperial Guard "Troops" section has actually gotten bigger this past week. Lots of things that were not on the site for years or that were previously only available as single models rather than "sets" are back.
Metal Cadian Snipers and the Plasmagun/Meltagun guys? They're back.
Metal Catachan Snipers, Heavy Flamers, and Demolition Teams? Back.
Most of the Vostroyans are back.
Mordian Iron Guard squad is back.
The "old" metal Stormtroopers are in as Troops right now, which is definitely new.
Valhallan squad is back.
Steel Legion Squad, Heavy Bolter and Lascannon teams, and the Steel Legion with a plasmagun is back.
Tallarn squad is back.
Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers and Gaunt's Ghosts are back.
Guard is separate from this AT stuff... Imagine some new models coming out for Blood Angels and someone saying, well GW maxed out new models. Guess I wont get my new Space Wolves after all. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Wait and see. AT is an allies codex &/or stand alone army (you know how Knights developed on their own, separate from Terra? These Scions are in the same boat...). imho
Yes, but with these models that we've seen, they all have 2 different build options. One for AT (Scions, Bullgryns, Ugly Truck) and one for IG (something stormtrooper-esque, regular Ogryns, a slightly different-looking ugly truck). This isn't like GW releasing a kit with two different builds for the same army, it's two builds for two different (but related) armies. This is more like if GW released a SW kit that could be assembled as Space Wolves or Blood Angels. One kit; two different armies (since AT is supposed to be separate from AM). That aspect makes it hard to draw parallels between this release and prior releases. So is AT getting it's own release list, completely separate from the AM release list (despite model crossover) or are the two model release lists the same or mostly the same because the kits can be used for either army?
Redemption wrote: They're releasing Militarum Tempestus before the Astra Militarum? That would mean the MT isn't simply a supplemental codex to AM then.
GW learned that they sell more copies if they call it Codex instead of supplement, so we now have several one or two unit Codices.like Codex Imperial Knights, Codex LotD and Codex Inquisition.
No, because the supplements weren't standalone before, whereas those Codexes are. If MT is standalone, then it's a codex, if it's additional units that can be taken as part of a Codex:IG/AM army, then it's a supplement. Stop stirring. They do enough shady gak without you inventing more.
Do you really expect anyone buying a 1850p LotD army? So is it really stand-alone? Or rather a glorified blown up one unit entry?
Also:
anonymous source on Faeit 212 wrote:I can confirm the reports of Astra Tempestus and Militarum leaks inside. Full stat pages and lore for the Taurox, Taurox Prime and Scions. Scions are WS 3 BS 4 Str 3 To 3 with Hot-shot Lasguns and Carapace armor. They can upgrade a number of models to have Plasma Guns, Melta Guns or Overcharged Lasguns. May take a Taurox or Chimera as dedicated transport. There is also a Scion Command Squad, but I forget the difference, they have the option of taking the Taurox Prime as dedicated transport instead.
Taurox is approx. the cost of a lone marine in a Rhino, 11 10 10 for armor and rerolls failed terrain rolls, comes mounted with an Autocannon and can hold 10 models. Taurox Prime is approx. 2 more marines in that rhino but comes with your choice of Taurox Missile Launcher, Battle Cannon or Gatling Cannon. Same armor and transport capacity as the regular model.
Other major part of the book is an apocalypse battle report between Tau and Necrons and painting guide for those beautiful Scions.
The old rule of thumb was this: Whatever rocked in the last codex gets nerfed, whatever sucked gets boosted.
I figure Vendettas will take it in the face, while Rough Riders will either A) be removed or B) get a big sexy improvement. Staying the same isn't a likely option.
Ogryns are certainly going to be made more alluring, however.
Do you really expect anyone buying a 1850p LotD army? So is it really stand-alone? Or rather a glorified blown up one unit entry?
I'm not saying I'd buy the thing, but I am saying the reason why it's called a Codex is because it's technically standalone, and not "because it'll sell better".
Now, you could say they've engineered it to be standalone instead of purely supplementary because that'll sell better, but that's a lot less cynical than simply changing the name to misrepresent the thing for dodgy sales.
Kanluwen wrote: GW is pushing for each army to have at least one plastic clamshell blister character so I would be really surprised if we do not see one.
The Tyranids didn't get one, did they? Although Tyranids do seem to be the 'odd one out' in a lot of ways.
They didn't get one, but I think the only viable option would have been Deathleaper--which, purportedly, has never been a stellar selling model in Finecast or metal. Another option would have been a Broodlord I guess, but he's not an HQ.
I think with Tyranids there's a bit of a weirdness when it comes to characters.
Deathleaper would make more sense bundled as parts with a Lictor plastic. The only model I can see fitting in a clampack minisprue for Nids would be a Broodlord.
IG have some options for clampack characters- Commissar, Primaris Psyker, Ministorum Priest (which could be used by Sisters and Inquisition as well)
Redemption wrote: They're releasing Militarum Tempestus before the Astra Militarum? That would mean the MT isn't simply a supplemental codex to AM then.
GW learned that they sell more copies if they call it Codex instead of supplement, so we now have several one or two unit Codices.like Codex Imperial Knights, Codex LotD and Codex Inquisition.
No, because the supplements weren't standalone before, whereas those Codexes are. If MT is standalone, then it's a codex, if it's additional units that can be taken as part of a Codex:IG/AM army, then it's a supplement. Stop stirring. They do enough shady gak without you inventing more.
Do you really expect anyone buying a 1850p LotD army? So is it really stand-alone? Or rather a glorified blown up one unit entry?
Also:
anonymous source on Faeit 212 wrote:I can confirm the reports of Astra Tempestus and Militarum leaks inside. Full stat pages and lore for the Taurox, Taurox Prime and Scions. Scions are WS 3 BS 4 Str 3 To 3 with Hot-shot Lasguns and Carapace armor. They can upgrade a number of models to have Plasma Guns, Melta Guns or Overcharged Lasguns. May take a Taurox or Chimera as dedicated transport. There is also a Scion Command Squad, but I forget the difference, they have the option of taking the Taurox Prime as dedicated transport instead.
Taurox is approx. the cost of a lone marine in a Rhino, 11 10 10 for armor and rerolls failed terrain rolls, comes mounted with an Autocannon and can hold 10 models. Taurox Prime is approx. 2 more marines in that rhino but comes with your choice of Taurox Missile Launcher, Battle Cannon or Gatling Cannon. Same armor and transport capacity as the regular model.
Other major part of the book is an apocalypse battle report between Tau and Necrons and painting guide for those beautiful Scions.
I think he is talking about this weeks WD.
I bought the LOTD digital codex. You can not make a LOTD army! I'm lucky to use my 5 on foot... (BTW, seriously, the LOTD, don't waste $17 on it. You can condense the needed info to several pages, and you are looking at using only 5 to 10 tactical LOTD models... No dreds, no vehicles, no chanvce of making this an army at all, nothing else to say. ripoff, IMHO.)
Redemption wrote: They're releasing Militarum Tempestus before the Astra Militarum? That would mean the MT isn't simply a supplemental codex to AM then.
GW learned that they sell more copies if they call it Codex instead of supplement, so we now have several one or two unit Codices.like Codex Imperial Knights, Codex LotD and Codex Inquisition.
No, because the supplements weren't standalone before, whereas those Codexes are. If MT is standalone, then it's a codex, if it's additional units that can be taken as part of a Codex:IG/AM army, then it's a supplement. Stop stirring. They do enough shady gak without you inventing more.
Do you really expect anyone buying a 1850p LotD army? So is it really stand-alone? Or rather a glorified blown up one unit entry?
Also:
anonymous source on Faeit 212 wrote:I can confirm the reports of Astra Tempestus and Militarum leaks inside. Full stat pages and lore for the Taurox, Taurox Prime and Scions. Scions are WS 3 BS 4 Str 3 To 3 with Hot-shot Lasguns and Carapace armor. They can upgrade a number of models to have Plasma Guns, Melta Guns or Overcharged Lasguns. May take a Taurox or Chimera as dedicated transport. There is also a Scion Command Squad, but I forget the difference, they have the option of taking the Taurox Prime as dedicated transport instead.
Taurox is approx. the cost of a lone marine in a Rhino, 11 10 10 for armor and rerolls failed terrain rolls, comes mounted with an Autocannon and can hold 10 models. Taurox Prime is approx. 2 more marines in that rhino but comes with your choice of Taurox Missile Launcher, Battle Cannon or Gatling Cannon. Same armor and transport capacity as the regular model.
Other major part of the book is an apocalypse battle report between Tau and Necrons and painting guide for those beautiful Scions.
I think he is talking about this weeks WD.
I bought the LOTD digital codex. You can not make a LOTD army! I'm lucky to use my 5 on foot... (BTW, seriously, the LOTD, don't waste $17 on it. You can condense the needed info to several pages, and you are looking at using only 5 to 10 tactical LOTD models... No dreds, no vehicles, no chanvce of making this an army at all, nothing else to say. ripoff, IMHO.)
The LOTD comments made me break out my old "Eye of Terror" suppliment from long ago. I liked the way the folded four supplimental groups for Chaos(LOTD), Space Wolves(13th Company), Eldar( Ulthwe strike force), and IG(Cadian Shock Troopers) in the same book for 30 bucks.
People made some pretty sweet armies from those and they did quite well in friendly games and tournaments of the time.
The "old" metal Stormtroopers are in as Troops right now, which is definitely new.
.
It isn't, I've spend enough time looking at the thing to know that the 4 men pack was in troops since forever and the 5 man pack with a sergeant is in elites.
Turalon wrote: So the supplement for the stormtroopers will be before the new guard book? That's odd.
I wouldn't be surprised to see stormtroopers taken out of the Guard book altogether, and kasrkin-like heavy infantry units replace them in their niche in the codex. Just a thought.
Especially if they stick to the Astra Militarium / Imperial Guard is almost all Cadian or versions of the same as they seem to be have been doing in the fluff / imagery - sadly in my view - I love all the varied Guard Regiments.......
I wouldn't worry too much about that...
The Imperial Guard "Troops" section has actually gotten bigger this past week. Lots of things that were not on the site for years or that were previously only available as single models rather than "sets" are back.
Metal Cadian Snipers and the Plasmagun/Meltagun guys? They're back.
Metal Catachan Snipers, Heavy Flamers, and Demolition Teams? Back.
Most of the Vostroyans are back.
Mordian Iron Guard squad is back.
The "old" metal Stormtroopers are in as Troops right now, which is definitely new.
Valhallan squad is back.
Steel Legion Squad, Heavy Bolter and Lascannon teams, and the Steel Legion with a plasmagun is back.
Tallarn squad is back.
Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers and Gaunt's Ghosts are back.
Once again, you are talking out of your posterior. Everything listed there happened months ago. For months, probably even half a year, the old storm troopers and pretty much everything there have been in the troops section.
Stop parading this as meaning anything. I tried to find evidence of just how late to the party this is but it seems nobody gave a row of buttons when it happened.
In terms of the new Taurox/Storm Trooper rules, I'm not particularly excited yet, though the idea of Taurox Primes getting Battle Cannons is quite interesting.
Honestly, the standard Taurox is probably going to be garbage. Its going to die easily at a fair expense, the weak guys inside are going to lose you points by the bucket from the explosion, and while the terrain rule is excellent I don't feel it cuts it.
The Taurox Prime on the other hand sounds great. I have zero faith the Gatling Cannon will be decent, but the potential of having your main three/four (Command can take one as a DT) squads have Battlecannon transports and the mobility and capibility to move around 12'' without high regard for terrain freely is sweet.
via Faeit wrote:
I can confirm the reports of Astra Tempestus and Militarum leaks inside. Full stat pages and lore for the Taurox, Taurox Prime and Scions. Scions are WS 3 BS 4 Str 3 To 3 with Hot-shot Lasguns and Carapace armor. They can upgrade a number of models to have Plasma Guns, Melta Guns or Overcharged Lasguns. May take a Taurox or Chimera as dedicated transport. There is also a Scion Command Squad, but I forget the difference, they have the option of taking the Taurox Prime as dedicated transport instead.
Taurox is approx. the cost of a lone marine in a Rhino, 11 10 10 for armor and rerolls failed terrain rolls, comes mounted with an Autocannon and can hold 10 models. Taurox Prime is approx. 2 more marines in that rhino but comes with your choice of Taurox Missile Launcher, Battle Cannon or Gatling Cannon. Same armor and transport capacity as the regular model.
Once again, you are talking out of your posterior. Everything listed there happened months ago. For months, probably even half a year, the old storm troopers and pretty much everything there have been in the troops section.
Stop parading this as meaning anything. I tried to find evidence of just how late to the party this is but it seems nobody gave a row of buttons when it happened.
The Steel Legion, Vostroyans, Tallarn, and Mordians were all in "Warhammer 40,000 Collectors". And in fact you can still get to the now hidden section that they used to be in.
Wakshaani wrote: The old rule of thumb was this: Whatever rocked in the last codex gets nerfed, whatever sucked gets boosted.
Ehhhhh, not really.
Most of the crap units in 4E Chaos remained crap in 6E (Dreadnoughts, raptors, beserkers, rubrics), while the decent units either got better or stayed the same (Plagues, noise marines, etc).
The Tau codex stayed mostly the same, with the exception of Broadsides.
Assault Marines, vanguard veterans are still crap (made worse, in the case of Vanguard vets), while most of the strong units remained the same.
Most of the aspect warriors are mediocre to crap in the 6E Eldar codex, while jetbikes are better than ever.
etc.
I've realized that there is no real "pattern" as to how GW balances things. History shows that GW doesn't really reverse the power-level of units in codices from edition to edition, and history also shows that they don't consistently make new units powerful either (the only good flyer released in 6E has been the Heldrake, and while the Wraithknight and Riptide are awesome, Centurions are decent to mediocre, and the exocrine and haruspex are meh).
Melcavuk wrote: Dedicated transport with Battlecannon or Gattling (Punisher?) cannon doesnt sound too shabby. If the prime is a dedicated transport.
Kind of what I am thinking. Command squads with a battlecannon transport would be nice and would definitely have something to compete with the chimera in terms of the better dedicated transport.
Melcavuk wrote: Dedicated transport with Battlecannon or Gattling (Punisher?) cannon doesnt sound too shabby. If the prime is a dedicated transport.
Kind of what I am thinking. Command squads with a battlecannon transport would be nice and would definitely have something to compete with the chimera in terms of the better dedicated transport.
The Prime does seem to bring to the table something that a Chimera doesnt (heavier firepower), The standard Taurox if as listed just brings a different type of medium firepower, and without mention of additional guns or fire points seems like a poor mans chimera without much (if any) saving.
Kanluwen wrote: I hate the stupid Inquisition for causing the stupid freaking "Hot-Shot Lasguns" nonsense.
They were Hotshot Lasguns before they were Hellguns.
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Relapse wrote: The LOTD comments made me break out my old "Eye of Terror" suppliment from long ago. I liked the way the folded four supplimental groups for Chaos(LOTD),
You're confusing Legion of the Damned (LotD) and the Lost and the Damned (LatD).
Kanluwen wrote: I hate the stupid Inquisition for causing the stupid freaking "Hot-Shot Lasguns" nonsense.
They were Hotshot Lasguns before they were Hellguns.
Right, but Hellguns were the names given to them for C: Daemonhunters, C: Imperial Guard, and most if not all of the BL books published around that time.
Then Witch Hunters introduced the stupid "Hellrifle", a stupid musket. After that? We started seeing the "Hot-shot Lasgun"(one of the most annoying "holdover" terms from earlier editions of 40k for weapons) make a return.
That is, of course, even more annoying since the Hellrifle is an item that could effectively be forgotten and Hellguns return as a term rather than this "Overcharged Lasgun"/"Hotshot Lasgun" nonsense.
Once again, you are talking out of your posterior. Everything listed there happened months ago. For months, probably even half a year, the old storm troopers and pretty much everything there have been in the troops section.
Stop parading this as meaning anything. I tried to find evidence of just how late to the party this is but it seems nobody gave a row of buttons when it happened.
The Steel Legion, Vostroyans, Tallarn, and Mordians were all in "Warhammer 40,000 Collectors". And in fact you can still get to the now hidden section that they used to be in.
Yeah, sure, whatever you want to believe. I'm telling you, as I'm sure at least some other people will also testify, that you are at the very least 4 months late on when the 2nd Ed IG and all that jazz got moved out of Collectors, or also got put in Troops.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: LatD was a damn fine list. Easy to use, but not uber competitive. I loved it.
I expect a battlecannon toting vehicle with 11 front AV to last all of one turn, honestly.
Are you kidding? LATD was one of the more overpowered cheese lists back in 3rd and 4th edition. I was very happy when it went away.
Getting off topic here, but everything that was broken about LatD had to do with the CSM codex at the time. And honestly, anything you could do with LatD, you could probably do better with regular CSMs anyway...elite Daemonette daemonbombs vs. troop Daemonette daemonbombs, etc.
I expect a battlecannon toting vehicle with 11 front AV to last all of one turn, honestly.
Pretty much.
If it's really an AV11, 12-model sized transport that can fit a large gun on top, I'll be pretty disappointed, honestly.
Considering the size of the unit, I would have preferred it to be a large, durable troop transport. Something like an AV13 front, 12 sides 3-4hp monster with a 20-model capacity.
A glass cannon transport really doesn't fill any niche in the Guard build.
I expect a battlecannon toting vehicle with 11 front AV to last all of one turn, honestly.
Pretty much.
If it's really an AV11, 12-model sized transport that can fit a large gun on top, I'll be pretty disappointed, honestly.
Considering the size of the unit, I would have preferred it to be a large, durable troop transport. Something like an AV13 front, 12 sides 3-4hp monster with a 20-model capacity.
A glass cannon transport really doesn't fill any niche in the Guard build.
It is different though, so fair play to them for trying something new.
I wonder if perhaps the stormtrooper codex will have more of an alpha-strike feel that the cheap glass cannon transport makes some sense in.
Doubt it. It's probably much as everyone says, a flat way to flog the new kits and a book to non-IG players, a la codex knights
BrookM wrote: So, it's what? 45/50 points for the Taurox?
From what I gathered:
45/50 for the AC armed, 11 10 10 re-roll failed terrains Taurox which can be taken by standard Stormies who can also take a Chimera.
Its about 75/80 starting price for the Taurox Prime (also 11, 10 10 and re-rolling failed terrains) which can have either an ML, Battlecannon or "Gatling Cannon", which is presumably twinlinked. Its also a dedicated transport for the Command Squad.
Both have 10 man storage capacity.
The only new dirt on actual Stormies is that they get access to a new "overcharged lasgun".
BrookM wrote: So, it's what? 45/50 points for the Taurox?
From what I gathered:
45/50 for the AC armed, 11 10 10 re-roll failed terrains Taurox which can be taken by standard Stormies who can also take a Chimera.
Its about 75/80 starting price for the Taurox Prime (also 11, 10 10 and re-rolling failed terrains) which can have either an ML, Battlecannon or "Gatling Cannon", which is presumably twinlinked. Its also a dedicated transport for the Command Squad.
Both have 10 man storage capacity.
The only new dirt on actual Stormies is that they get access to a new "overcharged lasgun".
I keep thinking of how cool it would be to make the Taurox wider with a bit of plasticard.
I'm thinking about the same size as a Scorpion Tank from Halo. I think that would look better too. I wonder if it would be easy to reposition the treads to be a bit further apart...?
Huh ! Even at 45 points, I don't see the point in taking such a fragile vehicle over a Chimera. Which is not even so desirable anymore, in the first place, in an edition so adverse to light vehicles.
Oh Chimera could be nerfed to make the Taurox comparatively more attractive, but I don't think it would be enough.
Front AV 11 , sides AV 10 is so easily wiped off the table, except for some skimmers that are redeemed by low price and jink saves.
Seems like a modern take on the Chimero/Chimadon/Chimerax, without making them Chimera variants.
General Hobbs wrote: Are you kidding? LATD was one of the more overpowered cheese lists back in 3rd and 4th edition. I was very happy when it went away.
So you're ok with people with LatD lists losing their armies?
Ravajaxe wrote: Woaw ! The Eisenkern APC from Dreamforge looks so much better. Like a futurized WW2 Sonderkraftfahrzeug.
But it may be too big to be WISIWIG.
Many nicer ones out there (dreamforge being one of those)...
If those stats for the Taurox are true, it will be not only the ugliest vehicle in the IG lineup, it will be the most useless.
"Put your expensive troops in this transport so they get blown up first turn!"
"Wait, you can also mount an expensive gun to it so it's a large investment and still gets blown up first turn!"
Wakshaani wrote: The old rule of thumb was this: Whatever rocked in the last codex gets nerfed, whatever sucked gets boosted.
I figure Vendettas will take it in the face, while Rough Riders will either A) be removed or B) get a big sexy improvement. Staying the same isn't a likely option.
Ogryns are certainly going to be made more alluring, however.
Most the units that sucked in the Tyranid codex previously still suck.
GW's method for balancing seems about as random as the tables they love to add to help you forge a narrative.
Melcavuk wrote: Looks like Codex: Storm Troopers got their own bad teaser trailer from GW. Not sure but think this could be the first time a supplement got one of the trailers? Here it is in all its... briefness:
Thank you krazynadechukr, for these alternative manufacturers I did not know about. Well, I seen other alternatives of futuristic light transports, but these ones are nice.
The Taurox pictures raised more than disappointment : rejection, on various forums. I do not like it at all, among others. I know it is a bit soon to say that, but the Taurox may reveal a bad move for GW. I mean, why pay the GW's price for a Taurox, when nicer futuristic light transport are plentiful elsewhere ? If there is a niche in using this light transport despite its unimpressive profile, it will open a breech for alternatives to be played in 40k. In my opinion, there were many light transport of brands X/Y/Z, while not fitting alternatives for the Chimera, that just waited for a rule support from GW. GW is just opening the doors for them !
I just hold a quiet hope that all the regiments will get some kind of a nod in the new codex outside of being mentioned in the fluff section.
Be it a special character (A-la Chenkov, Straken, etc) or a Regiment specific rule. Optional of course.
Do you play Catachan? Get X and Y additional rules at the expense of losing Z thing/rule.
Do you play Valhallan? Get X special order but may never issue Y general order.
Do you play Vostroyan? Infantry squads may purchase X squad upgrade not normally available if you choose.
etc. etc. etc.
I want the different regiments to play similar, but not exactly like each other. Did you choose to collect and paint up some Mordian Iron Guard? Then here's a neat way you can choose to use them if you like. I think tha'd be pretty awesome, personally.
I don't expect it, but as Professor Farnsworth says:
I thought we told him to stay in the vehicle? 
