I'll be working on modeling my Alphas with power swords, so many games where it would have come in handy so much more than a rifle. War Convocation is an army that is constantly moving forward together like a gigantic steamroller, this will often bring your troops into charge range.
Kanluwen wrote:My Ranger Alphas keep their rifles. Nothing saying they can't have 'em. Only exception is my Ranger squad with Arc Rifles, where he has an Arc Maul and Arc Pistol.
Is it a good setup? Nope! But I don't care...because Haywire!
Vanguard Alphas get phospher pistols and the taser bits.
UnstableDominus wrote:
Kanluwen wrote: My Ranger Alphas keep their rifles. Nothing saying they can't have 'em. Only exception is my Ranger squad with Arc Rifles, where he has an Arc Maul and Arc Pistol.
Is it a good setup? Nope! But I don't care...because Haywire!
Vanguard Alphas get phospher pistols and the taser bits.
My Ranger Alphas keep their rifles as well. We have a lot of non MEQ where we play so those rifles can be indispensable. My Vanguard Alpha on the other hand uses a Radium Pistol and a Taser Goad. My Vanguard Alpha is more expensive than he has any right to be, but when the Taser Goad works it is fantastic. Like beating down a Mawloc in close combat before it can eat my Dominus.
Verviedi wrote:My Plasma Vanguard Alpha has the standard radium carbine and conversion field. My Arc Alpha has arc maul/arc pistol and conversion field, and my Ranger alpha has Arkhan's Divinator and a standard rifle.
Thanks for the replies, but I still fail to see how a melee weapon would be useful in a ranged squad?
Don't think of Vanguard as "ranged squads".
Their ideal range is similar to a lot of the Sisters of Battle units; mid/short range. Carbines are 18", Plasma Calivers(a GREAT choice for the squad) are 18" and both are Assault weapons.
Couple that with their little -1T when in combat and units of barebones Vanguard with a melee weapon equipped Alpha on a turn where you've done a +WS Doctrina Imperative can wipe the floor with other ranged reliant units if they make it through Overwatch.
Additionally, they're a great unit for synergized charges where you put the Vanguard in and remove a point of Toughness, then charge with Sicarian. It gets NASTY.
I always keep the rifle for my alpha, but if I find myself with a few extra points I will throw on an arcmaul. It is decent at clubbing people and if i need to take off that last hp on what my rifles just shot at I can charge in and get it.
I have been dissappointed every game with my TA rifles as well. The range is great, but they are not as good at killling things as plasma, and not as good at popping tanks as arc. I really regret assembling 3 of them for my rangers...I would trade them for arc rifles in a heartbeat.
The arquebus is indeed a POS. You could make that ranger unit the warlord for preferred enemy, so you at least improve their chance to wound a bit (from 50% to ~58%).
Arc mauls are too damn expensive, and pistols are usually not as good as the base gun (radium carbine and galvanic rifle both), plus require extra investment if you want to benefit for the extra attack.
I leave my Alphas with basic gear except maybe conversion field, unless it's convocation, in which case go nuts.
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ultimentra wrote: I'll be working on modeling my Alphas with power swords, so many games where it would have come in handy so much more than a rifle. War Convocation is an army that is constantly moving forward together like a gigantic steamroller, this will often bring your troops into charge range.
Power swords are not ideal. Assuming we're talking about Vanguard so you're effectively WS3 S4 I3. How many space marine players do you know who bother with power swords at WS4 S4 I4? Not any of the good ones. The taser is cheaper and is not much weaker against marines.
3 power sword attacks, 50% hit rate, 50% wound rate = 0.75 wounds
3 taser goad attacks, 50% hit rate, 83.33% wound rate, 33% failed saves = 0.41 wounds.
If one of those taser hits rolls a 6, you're looking at 0.96 wounds.
If you're talking max damage potential, a power sword will maximum kill 3 models. A taser goad will kill 9.
Now if we could take power axes, then hell yes I'd take some, but otherwise the Alpha power swords are just cool bits in my bits box I intend to use for my 30k Marines.
HandofMars wrote: The arquebus is indeed a POS. You could make that ranger unit the warlord for preferred enemy, so you at least improve their chance to wound a bit (from 50% to ~58%).
Arc mauls are too damn expensive, and pistols are usually not as good as the base gun (radium carbine and galvanic rifle both), plus require extra investment if you want to benefit for the extra attack.
I leave my Alphas with basic gear except maybe conversion field, unless it's convocation, in which case go nuts.
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ultimentra wrote: I'll be working on modeling my Alphas with power swords, so many games where it would have come in handy so much more than a rifle. War Convocation is an army that is constantly moving forward together like a gigantic steamroller, this will often bring your troops into charge range.
Power swords are not ideal. Assuming we're talking about Vanguard so you're effectively WS3 S4 I3. How many space marine players do you know who bother with power swords at WS4 S4 I4? Not any of the good ones. The taser is cheaper and is not much weaker against marines.
3 power sword attacks, 50% hit rate, 50% wound rate = 0.75 wounds
3 taser goad attacks, 50% hit rate, 83.33% wound rate, 33% failed saves = 0.41 wounds.
If one of those taser hits rolls a 6, you're looking at 0.96 wounds.
If you're talking max damage potential, a power sword will maximum kill 3 models. A taser goad will kill 9.
Now if we could take power axes, then hell yes I'd take some, but otherwise the Alpha power swords are just cool bits in my bits box I intend to use for my 30k Marines.
Math hammer is all well and good but you aren't taking Doctrina Imperatives into account, nor the toughness reduction from Vanguard's cancer armor (unless that's what you meant by S4). These two things make the power sword worth it IMO as hitting on 4s or 3s depending on the doctrina, wounding on 4s, and ignoring armor is waaaay better than the same but wounding on 3s and giving the marine an armor save. Also, you're forgetting that in the War Convocation, this gak is free man. Digital weapons, invuln save, 2 wounds, and a power sword + pistol giving your alpha 3 attacks? These guys are better than Marine sergeants by far not even taking into account the 6+ FNP, Doctrinas, and other special rules. The power sword is absolutely worth it.
Has anyone ever tried pairing that cadian baneblade formation with admech? I would be interested if you can or not, as I would love to run a big arse tank with my admec.
I dont know Baneblade pts off the top of my head, but you can easily run a decent Convoction at 1500, and I cant see the three Baneblades being more than 2000
Isn't there a formation that is only one baneblade as an auxillary formation from montka? I could have sworn there was one. At any rate I didnt mean the three baneblade one
Tiger9gamer wrote: Isn't there a formation that is only one baneblade as an auxillary formation from montka? I could have sworn there was one. At any rate I didnt mean the three baneblade one
It's not a formation.
It's an auxiliary slot where you get to take a Baneblade chassis per slot OR you can take the triple Baneblade chassis+Techpriest formation.
Just got back into 7th edition, how well does admech work with space wolves? I feel that destroyers and robots are a good replacement for long fangs, and wolfguard drop-pods can apply some frontline pressure to keep the destroyers safe for 2+ turns, but I'd also like some Icarus Onagers to ruin flyers. I'd like to be competitive with my lists but I don't think I'll be getting a Knight in the foreseeable future.
Ive been debating this extensively lately. I think SW bring a quick melee aspect to AdMech, but AdMech doesnt need help in the form of shooty troops. I think the best compliment to AdMech from SW is a CotgW detachment...Thunderwolf HQ Joins some TWC and 2 units of wulfen...
But to add AdMech to existing SW that is different....what do you have? What are you looking for?
Tenzilla wrote: Ive been debating this extensively lately. I think SW bring a quick melee aspect to AdMech, but AdMech doesnt need help in the form of shooty troops. I think the best compliment to AdMech from SW is a CotgW detachment...Thunderwolf HQ Joins some TWC and 2 units of wulfen...
But to add AdMech to existing SW that is different....what do you have? What are you looking for?
I mostly played throughout 5th edition and early 6th edition, so lots of grey hunters, combi-weapon wolf guards, drop-pods, and long fangs, no thunderwolves or fliers. I'm basically transitioning into an Admech army and using them as space wolves allies in the meantime, I'd like to keep my current playstyle of alpha strike while tossing some Admech sustainability in there, with wolf guard combi-weapons destroying/crippling high priority targets and the Admech's superior firepower cleaning up the rest. Obviously things are never that simple so I'm still scheming.
Well Ad Mech does alpha strike extrememly well.
They dont have melta but a 10 man squad of Skitarii Vanguard(Or rangers for a few more points) can have three 24" rapidfire haywire guns with a pistol on the Alpha..making them much more reliable to pop tanks than wolfguard. Thats all for 155 pts too so usually much cheaper as well.
OR those same troops could have 3 Plasma Calivers which is 9(Assault 3) 18" plasma shots that can really put a hurt on most things. This is expensive though...30 pts a gun. And it is very easy to get reolls to avoid getting hot...2 times with Doctrines boosting your BS to 6&7 for 2 turns, by making your alpha the warlord gives the unit PE or by running the dominus maniple formation. On top of a 4+/6+++ So they are surprisingly survivable for plasma.
You can use your drop pods for them and get them where you need them to be, this is a very common tactic, especially with SW because on of their formations is one of the cheapest way to get access to the drop pods for your skitarii.(Cant remember the name of it atm, I believe it is from the Champions of Fenris book)
As far as Cult Mech, nothing beats Kataphron Destroyers....30" 6 Shot grav cannon. Come is squads of 3. BS 3 so that on average 9 grav hits a turn. for 165 pts...T5 2W models...not as duarable as they sound...especially when they are the primary target of every enemy. Putting them in pods also helps tremendously.
These help for the alpha strike...and there are plenty of other great options without me going through all the models in each codex.
The problem I see for you, is you dont have all the new toys that really set SW apart from regular marines, and now those type of SWs are inferior due to the lack of grav weapons/ centurions/TFCs/Skyhammer/Inferior Dreads/etc.
Your infantry really fills the same roll as Skitarii infantry, while being more durable but more expensive. So it kinda feels like you would be replacing shooty footsloggers/drop pods with cheaper shooty footsloggers. If I were you I might just grab some wulfen and TWC to change up what I already have. And maybe get a Skitarii start collecting box to bring along side it after that.
Math hammer is all well and good but you aren't taking Doctrina Imperatives into account, nor the toughness reduction from Vanguard's cancer armor (unless that's what you meant by S4). These two things make the power sword worth it IMO as hitting on 4s or 3s depending on the doctrina, wounding on 4s, and ignoring armor is waaaay better than the same but wounding on 3s and giving the marine an armor save. Also, you're forgetting that in the War Convocation, this gak is free man. Digital weapons, invuln save, 2 wounds, and a power sword + pistol giving your alpha 3 attacks? These guys are better than Marine sergeants by far not even taking into account the 6+ FNP, Doctrinas, and other special rules. The power sword is absolutely worth it.
If it's all well and good, you should probably pay attention to it, hence S4 power swords or tasers wounding on 2+. I took everything into account. Doctrinas are irrelevant because they benefit both weapons equally. Even when free, I will always take the taser over the power sword.
And honestly, there is an argument for the power sword in convocation, but it's not the one you think. Since they can benefit from canticles, you could have a turn where they are S6 (and marines will be at T3, so you have an insta-death power sword for marines). However, even then that canticle will be used after Shroudpsalm or Omniscience (which is 3 turns in convocation). And after you use all that, if you find yourself in combat, Electromancer or Remorseless Fist might still be a better choice than Machine Might.
I didn't feel like making a model that would only truly be useful in one type of formation, on one turn of the game, maybe. Hence, taser/pistol, or no weapon upgrades at all as far as I'm concerned. For rangers, it's no weapon upgrades at all, period.
Math hammer is all well and good but you aren't taking Doctrina Imperatives into account, nor the toughness reduction from Vanguard's cancer armor (unless that's what you meant by S4). These two things make the power sword worth it IMO as hitting on 4s or 3s depending on the doctrina, wounding on 4s, and ignoring armor is waaaay better than the same but wounding on 3s and giving the marine an armor save. Also, you're forgetting that in the War Convocation, this gak is free man. Digital weapons, invuln save, 2 wounds, and a power sword + pistol giving your alpha 3 attacks? These guys are better than Marine sergeants by far not even taking into account the 6+ FNP, Doctrinas, and other special rules. The power sword is absolutely worth it.
If it's all well and good, you should probably pay attention to it, hence S4 power swords or tasers wounding on 2+. I took everything into account. Doctrinas are irrelevant because they benefit both weapons equally. Even when free, I will always take the taser over the power sword.
And honestly, there is an argument for the power sword in convocation, but it's not the one you think. Since they can benefit from canticles, you could have a turn where they are S6 (and marines will be at T3, so you have an insta-death power sword for marines). However, even then that canticle will be used after Shroudpsalm or Omniscience (which is 3 turns in convocation). And after you use all that, if you find yourself in combat, Electromancer or Remorseless Fist might still be a better choice than Machine Might.
I didn't feel like making a model that would only truly be useful in one type of formation, on one turn of the game, maybe. Hence, taser/pistol, or no weapon upgrades at all as far as I'm concerned. For rangers, it's no weapon upgrades at all, period.
Not to mention in the Convocation you only get one unit of Vanguard. So only one power sword hitting T3 marines the rest are still base toughness. Mathhammer proves that tasers are far superior to the power swords. That is why everyone runs infiltrators with uzi/taser not carbine/power sword.
Hey guys I'm looking at attempting to start up a Skitarii army and am curious has anyone ever tried a Mechanized Skitarii force? I am thinking about something like the following:
gmaleron wrote: Hey guys I'm looking at attempting to start up a Skitarii army and am curious has anyone ever tried a Mechanized Skitarii force? I am thinking about something like the following:
that's not bad. Maybe two special weapons in each Rhino so that both can shoot out the hatch. Then you don't need 10 models.
I've played vanguard in rhinos a few times and yeah they do not suck. Maybe Mix in three drop pods too.
gmaleron wrote: Hey guys I'm looking at attempting to start up a Skitarii army and am curious has anyone ever tried a Mechanized Skitarii force?
OO! OOOOO! pick me!
*ahem*
So I played unbound skitarii more than just skitarii by themselves, and I have to say I loved doing it. They are fairly fast, and are actually better protected in rhinos when they go up the board. An assault cannon or heavy bolter, for example, will shred your front ranks fairly easily... but inside rhinos suddenly they are a lot more protected against ap4 (unless the rhino blows up)
Really though, the only time I really failed for my list was when I faced a knight errant and marines. I found out that unlike other fast vehicles, you can't shoot two occupants out of the top hatch when the rhino goes cruising speed. So, that sucks, but still your guys are fairly protected from harm and can still move around quickly with flat out stuff.
So I'm travelling down to my buddies this weekend for some games. He wants me to try out his ad mech vs his space wolves to see how they do. So I'm tasked with writing a 2500 pt War Convocation list, but I have never used ad mech before so they are a bit overwhelming ruleswise.
Any suggestions would be welcome. He has a large army so unit selection is not a problem. Except for the electro priests. In terms of his army he won't be running super friends, and he only has one unit of thunderwolf cav. So I don't want to spam flesh tearer drop pods as I feel that would be a little mean
MonumentOfRibs wrote: So I'm travelling down to my buddies this weekend for some games. He wants me to try out his ad mech vs his space wolves to see how they do. So I'm tasked with writing a 2500 pt War Convocation list, but I have never used ad mech before so they are a bit overwhelming ruleswise.
Any suggestions would be welcome. He has a large army so unit selection is not a problem. Except for the electro priests. In terms of his army he won't be running super friends, and he only has one unit of thunderwolf cav. So I don't want to spam flesh tearer drop pods as I feel that would be a little mean
make a quick reference guide.
To bring war Convocation up to 2500 just add more Imperial Knights. They get the Canticles so they're p mean.
I'm sue this or similar has been asked but I'll be honest, 60+ pages in a thread to check is a little daunting...
Has anyone had success (not just played with, but had success) with a Skitarii/Mechanicus army that doesn't have allies or a Knight, or are we too dependent on either?
I'm not playing against tournament hopefuls, much more relaxed and experimental (think the sort of games miniwargaming or guerilla mini games gets on), so I wasn't sure if any Mechanicus guys were in a similar boat with some dos and don'ts or does work vs. doesn't work.
If it helps to add context, I'm having extreme difficulty against high T monsters (wraithlords and the Avatar) and I've been leaning more Skitarii heavy over Cult models.
If it helps to add context, I'm having extreme difficulty against high T monsters (wraithlords and the Avatar) and I've been leaning more Skitarii heavy over Cult models.
Well, for high T monsters and the like, the Cult models have some good tools to help you. That's where I would start. Kastelans have massed S6 AP3 fire, and the Kataphron destroyers can bring piles of grav shots or plasma blasts. Grav destroyers can and have taken out MCs in one round of shooting.
I run a cult heavy blend of skitarii/mechanicus. I have never used a knight and I do fairly well. My meta is filled with marines and vehicles though, and cult loves those targets. I absolutely think we can be 'casually competitive' without a knight. I know that's all anecdotal but I wanted to share my opinion. I hope it helps.
It really does. I should definitely shift my attention to a better balance, getting the Destroyers and Kastelans in. Anecdotal though it may be, it's a good optimism booster.
1 Imperial knight that can either be a Crusader / Paladin or Errant
That gives me 1850 pts for in a war convocation - if i run the knight as a crusader. Should I buy 1 more box of kataphrons and run them as breachers? then i'd have 2000pts even. I was thinking of doing this for a long time.
However, today I was thinking about another avenue. Run the knight as an errant or paladin and then I could get another dragoon in there as well as one of the IOM assassins.
Any thoughts between 3 breachers or an assassin and a dragoon?
If this is what you have now at 1850, for 2000 I would make room for a Culexus and some Drop pods (either Flesh Tearers or CotGW detachment). if you don't want that then add more destroyers, vanguards, dragoons etc as you see fit or a 2nd knight.
1 Imperial knight that can either be a Crusader / Paladin or Errant
That gives me 1850 pts for in a war convocation - if i run the knight as a crusader. Should I buy 1 more box of kataphrons and run them as breachers? then i'd have 2000pts even. I was thinking of doing this for a long time.
However, today I was thinking about another avenue. Run the knight as an errant or paladin and then I could get another dragoon in there as well as one of the IOM assassins.
Any thoughts between 3 breachers or an assassin and a dragoon?
X078 wrote:If this is what you have now at 1850, for 2000 I would make room for a Culexus and some Drop pods (either Flesh Tearers or CotGW detachment). if you don't want that then add more destroyers, vanguards, dragoons etc as you see fit or a 2nd knight.
Or, if he wants to run pure skitarii (with assassin) he could run a vindicare assassin for more long range precision. Honestly what I would do next is add in a second onager, as those things are gold.
1 Imperial knight that can either be a Crusader / Paladin or Errant
That gives me 1850 pts for in a war convocation - if i run the knight as a crusader. Should I buy 1 more box of kataphrons and run them as breachers? then i'd have 2000pts even. I was thinking of doing this for a long time.
However, today I was thinking about another avenue. Run the knight as an errant or paladin and then I could get another dragoon in there as well as one of the IOM assassins.
Any thoughts between 3 breachers or an assassin and a dragoon?
So If I run the Warconvo with an knight errant or paladin, I can fit a Culexus and a 2nd dragoon. 1980-85 pts total. Would that be better than running an added squad of breachers and a knight crusader? - which is a 2k even?
Also, whats the consensus on breachers, Arc Rifle or Torsion cannon? Arc Claw or Hydraulic Claw?
Lastly, if you run a war convocation, w/ 2 squads of destroyers, does it make sense to run run one as grav and one as plasma? Should you take advantage of the no gets hot rule and go all plasma? Is the range of grav and volume of fire too good to pass up?
I don't know about anyone else, But I can't wait for there to be more competitive variety for admech. I am getting VERY tired of the war convo, both playing it and seeing it. I miss being able to be more creative with my list building. Sure you can still run something different, but it just never holds up to tghe other stuff thats out there.
Yep, I really hope that War Convo gets changed to the Skitarii Maniple + Cult Mech formation (can't remember the name) + Oathsworn. More units of Skitarii for more tactical options, room for more variable versions of the War Convo will be great.
So I have a 1750-point tournament and I am looking to go bound on it. They disallowed 30k so I bought and painted two three-man units of Kataphrons to run a 40kCAD with the Ordinatus Ulator that is usually the warlord for my 30k army. The list is:
This guy's role is to stick with the Ordinatus and use his repairs plus the Uncreator Gauntlet to return Hull Points if the Ordinatus suffers major damage.
Tech-Priest Dominus
- Conversion Field
- Infoslave Skull
- Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land (?)
This guy is mostly a repair-bot aid for the other Tech-Priest Dominus. I brought the Autocaduceus mostly to fill in extra points - I have no idea what else might be a good idea. IWND seemed good, I suppose.
Troops: 2x Kataphron Battle Servitor Squads, 3 models each
- Heavy Grav Cannons
- Cognis Flamers
These guys are basically mandatory troops. I took the Grav Cannons because I hear they're basically the mandatory thing for Kataphons, and the Flamers because they deal with what the Grav Cannons cannot (hordes) and provide helpful overwatch.
Lord of War Ordinatus Ulator
This guy is the core of my army - his big gun will do basically all of the heavy lifting I suspect. Not much more needs to be said!
Concerns:
I am worried about Thundercav - against them, the Ordinatus Ulator is Str 5 with Instant Death, so adequate but not very good. This is the matchup that might make my Kataphrons put in work, but I am not really sure what more they can do than the Ordinatus, aside from adding a few wounds here and there. Any input?
Dramagod2 wrote: I don't know about anyone else, But I can't wait for there to be more competitive variety for admech. I am getting VERY tired of the war convo, both playing it and seeing it. I miss being able to be more creative with my list building. Sure you can still run something different, but it just never holds up to tghe other stuff thats out there.
I hear ya, but so far I never played warcon once and I have more victories than losses. I spam arc and vanguard but I still enjoy playing them as I slowly get more cult mechanicus. I'm really tired of just hearing about the war convocation, and hell, only seen it play once! it looked fun as heck but just so... stale
@Unit 1126
That list looks like it would be a blast to play! I'm eager to get the data on how it performed.
The list does look like fun but I don't think it'll last long. The kataphrons will get blasted away quickly as you only have 6 and then the only targets left are the ordinatus and the dominus. I think it'll put out a lot of damage but I also think it'll die quickly, Its hard to field something that large at that level and still have anything left. Definitely all the eggs in one basket. lol. Plus it'll get murdered in assault by anything with antitank. Does look fun though.
The Ordinatus did not die in any game I played - and my first round was against an invisible deathstar against which the Ordinatus was invaluable. It was Emperor's Will, which was a close loss for me because of First Blood (I didn't get first turn throughout the entirety of the tournament >.> ). The second game was against Necrons (bizarrely in a CAD, not a Decurion) which were basically helpless against the Ordinatus. Anything that got close enough to rapid-fire at it was gutted by the main and secondary guns and being able to fire into close combat with it meant that I could use the Toughness 5 Kataphrons to tie up units and then just blat away with the Sonic Destructor. It was a pretty resounding victory for me. The third game was against GSF Marines with a BDC and the 3 flyers formation, and was Maelstrom, which of course would be difficult for me. However, at the end of Turn 5, the Ordinatus had obliterated everything except three damaged Razorbacks and eighteen Marines in various tiny squads scattered about the table. My Tech-Priest Dominus was in combat with nine of the marines and had been that way since forever, basically. Bottom of Turn 1 he charged a Tactical Squad + Chaplain that came out of a pod and hadn't made much progress. It was a loss, but I believe it could have been a crushing victory if it had gone on to Turn 7 and allowed the Ordinatus to finish off the remaining units.
The Ordinatus did not die in any game I played - and my first round was against an invisible deathstar against which the Ordinatus was invaluable. It was Emperor's Will, which was a close loss for me because of First Blood (I didn't get first turn throughout the entirety of the tournament >.>. The second game was against Necrons (bizarrely in a CAD, not a Decurion) which were basically helpless against the Ordinatus. Anything that got close enough to rapid-fire at it was gutted by the main and secondary guns and being able to fire into close combat with it meant that I could use the Toughness 5 Kataphrons to tie up units and then just blat away with the Sonic Destructor. It was a pretty resounding victory for me. The third game was against GSF Marines with a BDC and the 3 flyers formation, and was Maelstrom, which of course would be difficult for me. However, at the end of Turn 5, the Ordinatus had obliterated everything except three damaged Razorbacks and eighteen Marines in various tiny squads scattered about the table. My Tech-Priest Dominus was in combat with nine of the marines and had been that way since forever, basically. Bottom of Turn 1 he charged a Tactical Squad + Chaplain that came out of a pod and hadn't made much progress. It was a loss, but I believe it could have been a crushing victory if it had gone on to Turn 7 and allowed the Ordinatus to finish off the remaining units.
It is first draft. I doubt this will leave to see final version of FAQ.
I find it funny FAQ happened right after I got 5 painted drop pods.
If this transport nonsense stands I will move to VSG and probably chimeras/rhinos. Or just drop culexus and pods from the list to get another imperial knight.
Or may be it is because drop pods are too much for T3 models.
Yeah, having no access to Drop Pods sucks. We can use Lias to infiltrate them though and we get more use from those Space Marines compared to the vastly inferior Blood Angels.
Unlike all you rusty plebians Guys I have not used drop pods in my armies... I used rhinos instead. Still though, we are fairly mobile with scout and crusader (not as mobile as I would like but still) and can still pack a wallop, we just have Aluminum Jaws and cannot take a punch that well.
but a thought did occur: We can get air support for super cheap now thanks to that flyer thingie. Two Storm Talons could provide a hellaot of firepower in the form of Str 6 and 7, we could use Valkries to get some horde killing big blasts, or we could get a gunship like a storm raven or Storm Wolf to ad d more dakka... And the best part is it provides a reserve bonus.
I have an idea to use the Ironstrider Cavilere thing with a flyer. With air superiority they come in on a 2+ on turn one I think. now they are pretty much coming in regardless and they can provide an even bigger threat to the enemy.
Also... Need I say FW Flyers? if/when FW makes something for those I can see myself using two vultures or avengers in almost every game from then on!
I ran the Mechanicus robot maniple formation the other day against a 2k Vraks artillery list. It was ridiculous how much damage they shrugged off as they plodded up the battlefield. Having so much of the damage being barrage definitely kept me alive, as it spread the few wounds onto different robots, which then got IWND'd or healed off. I took a gamble right before a 30-man blob charged them and went with the double-guns protocol, and with the BS2 snapfire relic almost wiped the entire squad.
I think instead of one giant formation next time I want to run 2 smaller formations just to raise the Canticles up to the 2nd level and get more shots into different targets. A question though, can the Dominus taken in the formation count as the HQ of a CAD or is he strictly allied?
Badablack wrote: I ran the Mechanicus robot maniple formation the other day against a 2k Vraks artillery list. It was ridiculous how much damage they shrugged off as they plodded up the battlefield. Having so much of the damage being barrage definitely kept me alive, as it spread the few wounds onto different robots, which then got IWND'd or healed off. I took a gamble right before a 30-man blob charged them and went with the double-guns protocol, and with the BS2 snapfire relic almost wiped the entire squad.
I think instead of one giant formation next time I want to run 2 smaller formations just to raise the Canticles up to the 2nd level and get more shots into different targets. A question though, can the Dominus taken in the formation count as the HQ of a CAD or is he strictly allied?
I believe he can be warlord, but that formation has to be your "Primary detachment"
I have not much exp. But I am a firm beliver in the grenades. Without the filter of statistics or exp. With other armies. I have had the grenades make an difference to some degree in most games I have played. The trade off for str. 1 doesn't seem worth the loss of tactical options
I also play any way but war convo.... the only other skitarii/ad mech guys in my area all run it and i just want a fun list that isn't almost just like everyone else's. I love vanguards stacked 10 deep all over the place some dragoons and dunecrawlers. A killclade or a cohort cybernetica go in nicely to make for fun cyborg shennanigans. Maybe not the best but hey I'm new and its fun. Hail mars!
Hey everyone with my guard nearing completion I'm looking at starting a Mech/Skitarii Army here in the near future. I am curious with the recent FAQ'S nerfing the fact that we can no longer jump in Allied transports how have you guys found the best ways to run Vanguard or Rangers? And in light of these recent changes are Vanguard still better than Rangers?
gmaleron wrote: Hey everyone with my guard nearing completion I'm looking at starting a Mech/Skitarii Army here in the near future. I am curious with the recent FAQ'S nerfing the fact that we can no longer jump in Allied transports how have you guys found the best ways to run Vanguard or Rangers? And in light of these recent changes are Vanguard still better than Rangers?
I am doing what the book intended to I guess... Walk up the field very slowly shooting the entire time and getting dusted whenever someone looks at my guys We need transports.
I still think Vanguard are better than rangers however, simply because they are still so cheap and have an okay range to them with the move and shoot. I can load them up with arc rifles and they can be a threat to everything, including T8 monstrous creatures. Pro tip however: learn to spread your guys out the full 2". it will save you some guys when your blasted by blasts.
gmaleron wrote: Hey everyone with my guard nearing completion I'm looking at starting a Mech/Skitarii Army here in the near future. I am curious with the recent FAQ'S nerfing the fact that we can no longer jump in Allied transports how have you guys found the best ways to run Vanguard or Rangers? And in light of these recent changes are Vanguard still better than Rangers?
I am doing what the book intended to I guess... Walk up the field very slowly shooting the entire time and getting dusted whenever someone looks at my guys We need transports.
I've probably missed something in the FaQ but isn't it a case of just being unable to deploy in Battle brothers transports. I know it's not as effective but is it still possible to deploy them out of LOS hiding behind a rhino or Taurox then first turn board and drive up the board. Obviously not as great as drop pods and you are vulnerable if you don't get first turn but should still hopefully at some protection and mobility. I'm hoping to do this with vanguard hopping in Obsec taurox primes for an Ordo Mechanicus list, while the scions can still make use of their deep strike.
I was actually thinking about Taurox recently. They seem mildly expensive, but they have Teleport Homers you can purchase to make good use of that Deep Strike, and they offer up easy Melta Guns. That easily means we don't have to be as reliant on Arc Rifles and can spam Plasma Calaviers all day.
If the rule states that we cant only start inside an allied transport then Razorbacks I think from Blood Angels would be the best choice, would allow the turbo charged engines and the Razorbacks could actually put some fire downrange while we mount up.
You're paying up to 85 points for those Razorbacks though. Taurox are almost the same, but at least MT give better tools for us to use. Blood Angels aren't doing anything we can't grab from the vanilla codex. Fast Transports aren't worth that Blood Angel tax.
Also pretty sure Taurox Primes are fast too, not a huge fan of them due to being so fragile but they compare reasonably well to razorbacks with larger capacity and fire-points just the weak side armour letting them down.
Interest to see how the Scions start collecting turns out, if they don't need to be in the transports with the commissar it could work pretty well paired up with the dominus maniple.
I like using Inquisition for my Ad Mech transport requirements.
I get 1 Psyker +2 acolypte (18 points) to get myself a chimera, considering this allows me a psyker I consider it a very minimal tax. With chimera I can have 5 vanguard shooting out of it which is pretty nice.
While I am on it I also get Cortaez for seizing/denying initiative, so my guys can actually survive enough to get inside the Chimera.
Zalek wrote: I like using Inquisition for my Ad Mech transport requirements.
I get 1 Psyker +2 acolypte (18 points) to get myself a chimera, considering this allows me a psyker I consider it a very minimal tax. With chimera I can have 5 vanguard shooting out of it which is pretty nice.
While I am on it I also get Cortaez for seizing/denying initiative, so my guys can actually survive enough to get inside the Chimera.
I quite like that, the inquisition chimera does make a good transport for vanguard and I also quite like the thought of a grenade juggling ordo xenos inquisitor with vanguard for stacking toughness penalties in CC or conversion beamer with some arquebus wielding rangers for the range synergy and to give them a bit more wallop.
Do you just leave the henchman squads lying around in you deployment zone? That's the only thing putting me off this tactic as I can't produce an effective long range warband without sticking a inquisitor in with some plasma cannon servitors and a jokero to attempt to spruce the guns up, mindlock just makes them to unreliable without the inquisitor.
(off topic but I have on occasion done this with a psyker, mystic and acolyte in a taurox for my scions to lock onto in low point games, but being as they stay in the vehicles as beacons and mana batteries it's easier to pretend they are equipment on the vehicle rather tah an under armed squad)
Do you just leave the henchman squads lying around in you deployment zone? That's the only thing putting me off this tactic as I can't produce an effective long range warband without sticking a inquisitor in with some plasma cannon servitors and a jokero to attempt to spruce the guns up, mindlock just makes them to unreliable without the inquisitor.
Yeah they are mostly in cover but 12" of some important units. I have a Psyker in that unit with Divination for Presience. I generally have some stuff on the back such as Onagers or Destroyers etc, so I can cast Prescience on them.
So I have finally started collecting some guys from my Army and I'm really interested in running the War Convocation Formation. I'm kind of curious since the formation is made up of a standard FOC from both Skitarii and Ad Mech Books what combos have you guys found to be effective? I'm looking at a very Kataphron heavy and Skitarii heavy list, also your guys experience what imperial knight have you found to be the most effective?
The war convocation is surprisingly good in close combat. The skitarii elites are already good and giving them canticles can make them lethal through the roof. I like allying in a xenos inquisitor for rad and psychotrope grenades.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For war con the skitarii force is actually the formation that's one of every unit so you can't really chose what to take for them.
gmaleron wrote:So I have finally started collecting some guys from my Army and I'm really interested in running the War Convocation Formation. I'm kind of curious since the formation is made up of a standard FOC from both Skitarii and Ad Mech Books what combos have you guys found to be effective? I'm looking at a very Kataphron heavy and Skitarii heavy list, also your guys experience what imperial knight have you found to be the most effective?
Probably bring the minimum number of models needed for War Convocation, with the possible exception of two or three Dragoons because they're boss. Give the Destroyers grav.
For the past year, many War Convocation players allied drop pods to deliver the Destroyers and Vanguard. But if GW's new FAQ sticks, that'll no longer be an option. So many are now fielding a second Imperial Knight.
The shooty Crusader Knight is probably most effective, but a Knight with a D weapon helps fill in a War Convocation's weaknesses.
gdzilla wrote:I like allying in a xenos inquisitor for rad and psychotrope grenades.
Inquisitors are good allies. Bring the servo-skulls to counter drop pods and other shenanigans. And consider Coteaz to help get that first turn, so crucial for War Convocation. Also consider a Culexus assasin to help counter those popular deathstars, especially if you play with full-strength Invisibility. I think Callidius assassins also help get first turn?
And there are some Space Marine formations that are good allies with almost any Imperial Force: Librarius Conclave, Skyhammer Annihilation Force, etc.
What I was thinking is that the Inquisitors could join either the Servitors or the Command Squads (as I don't care too much about the Servitor Mind Lock; they're mostly for any backfield objectives), and the Taurox will go up the field as quickly as possible to drop off the Vanguard whilst the Rangers scoot up behind.
What I was thinking is that the Inquisitors could join either the Servitors or the Command Squads (as I don't care too much about the Servitor Mind Lock; they're mostly for any backfield objectives), and the Taurox will go up the field as quickly as possible to drop off the Vanguard whilst the Rangers scoot up behind.
I like this list a lot, I use psycanon inquisitors with my scion command squads a lot, work well with adding a bit more anti-vehicle punch to melta, but my preferred way to use them is with plasma as they really benefit from the preferred enemy order as it give you less overheats and more rends for an anti-everything unit, I presume you made them psychers too? I find it hard to get powers to go off against psychic heavy armies but when against armies with few warp charges divination is awesome, going for the ignores cover but having prescience as a back up is great as they stack well with the orders for even more effective alpha strike. I can see were you're going with the plasma servitors but only having shots half the time I'm not sure they will be worth the points, could try knocking them down to heavy bolters and using the points saved to get a third squad for the extra warp charge.
Not tried the skitarii out yet so can't give much advice, personally I'm not sure its worth triple plasma outside of the warlord squad, they are pricey and with that many shot your gonna end up blowing yourself up, though they do have a lot of punch. Might be worth either taking the other two squads on vanguard naked (guns are still effective against infantry and MCs through weight of fire or give them the arc rifles from the rangers as they are more likely to get in range. The rangers I'm not sure on, as you've already got the servitors holding the backfield if you didn't I'd say keep them an maybe take a couple of aquebus as a harassing unit but they are not particularly cost effective. Again I haven't got enough experience but I'd be tempted to take the money saved from rangers and plasma cavaliers and either bulk out the scion squads for a slightly more robust objective secure unit or grab a couple of irons striders for some more AV targets to take the heat off the taurox plus the cognis and twin linked allows you to take some pot shots against flyers and invisible units, not enough to effect deathstars but enough keep smaller units honest n flyers jimk
What I was thinking is that the Inquisitors could join either the Servitors or the Command Squads (as I don't care too much about the Servitor Mind Lock; they're mostly for any backfield objectives), and the Taurox will go up the field as quickly as possible to drop off the Vanguard whilst the Rangers scoot up behind.
I like this list a lot, I use psycanon inquisitors with my scion command squads a lot, work well with adding a bit more anti-vehicle punch to melta, but my preferred way to use them is with plasma as they really benefit from the preferred enemy order as it give you less overheats and more rends for an anti-everything unit, I presume you made them psychers too? I find it hard to get powers to go off against psychic heavy armies but when against armies with few warp charges divination is awesome, going for the ignores cover but having prescience as a back up is great as they stack well with the orders for even more effective alpha strike. I can see were you're going with the plasma servitors but only having shots half the time I'm not sure they will be worth the points, could try knocking them down to heavy bolters and using the points saved to get a third squad for the extra warp charge.
Not tried the skitarii out yet so can't give much advice, personally I'm not sure its worth triple plasma outside of the warlord squad, they are pricey and with that many shot your gonna end up blowing yourself up, though they do have a lot of punch. Might be worth either taking the other two squads on vanguard naked (guns are still effective against infantry and MCs through weight of fire or give them the arc rifles from the rangers as they are more likely to get in range. The rangers I'm not sure on, as you've already got the servitors holding the backfield if you didn't I'd say keep them an maybe take a couple of aquebus as a harassing unit but they are not particularly cost effective. Again I haven't got enough experience but I'd be tempted to take the money saved from rangers and plasma cavaliers and either bulk out the scion squads for a slightly more robust objective secure unit or grab a couple of irons striders for some more AV targets to take the heat off the taurox plus the cognis and twin linked allows you to take some pot shots against flyers and invisible units, not enough to effect deathstars but enough keep smaller units honest n flyers jimk
1. I feel that the Plasma would be better done by the Vanguard, and that I should take advantage of the Skulls to take care of anything that Plasma won't be efficient for. I would be willing to try this out, but that means I'd have to find points for it (as that's an additional 20 in each squad!), and I'd have to get more Arc Rifles (which is terrible for Vanguard). I could probably be more efficient by losing one of the Ranger squads to do this, but they're helping control objectives too along with the Servitors. The list is still a work in progress though.
2. The Inquisitors aren't Psykers. I wanted to find points to do that as well. Perhaps losing the Servitors and just striking the Inquisitors with the Command Squads would be easy, but at the same time they're okay firepower for 60 points. So many things I want to do and I can't fit everything in!
3. I can just use the Doctrina as necessary for the Plasma Vanguard. Gets Hot is an overrated problem; it's a 42% chance to die if I roll that 1. I'm fine with that.
4. I've been thinking about the Skitarii vehicles too. Ultimately I'd have to lose the Inquisitor element to do points for them unless the Rangers were lost.
Good point on the doctrinas helping with overheats, you make strong case there and those squads will pack a wallop. Not sure the two psykers are worth it on their own, if you're keeping the rangers and the inquisitors have no psychic ability I'd be tempted to sack of the two henchman war bands that will net you either a couple of ironstriders or 3 dragoons for more AV saturation. Though I'll be honest I'm just nit picking as I do really like that list.
ragnorack1 wrote: Good point on the doctrinas helping with overheats, you make strong case there and those squads will pack a wallop. Not sure the two psykers are worth it on their own, if you're keeping the rangers and the inquisitors have no psychic ability I'd be tempted to sack of the two henchman war bands that will net you either a couple of ironstriders or 3 dragoons for more AV saturation. Though I'll be honest I'm just nit picking as I do really like that list.
They were a total of 20 points. I figured I would roll on Divination and fish for any of the WC1 powers.
I also like that idea of losing the Henchmen for Iron Striders. I'll consider it.
Hey guys I was able to get a couple games in today at my FLGS by proxying units before buying anything and I think I have found a pretty solid 1500 Point list to get me started with the units I want to run. With this list I was able to beat Imperial Guard, Farsight Enclaves Tau and Orks against some pretty competitive opponents as my entire store is. This is the list I ran in every game and what I'm planning on building towards to start, let me know what you guys think and if there are any changes in particular that you would make, thanks for posting!
IHateNids wrote: Phosphor Serpentas are the pistol weapons that allow re-roll charges if you get a wound in. They do not replace the lance.
What You're thinking of are Radium Jezails (spelling?), the two-shot Radium sniper
Posphor weaponry seems like an incredible synergy weapon. Not only are most of them average strength to begin with, having a psudo-markerlight effect on cover while also making our choppy units even more likely to succeed seems most excellent.
I could see Dragoons and the Sicarians being best buds as they romp up the field, with the Dragoon popping a pistol shot before the charge to try to ensure their success (or have Kastelans or the Onager do it for you prior)
Even then, having your Rangers be able to comfortably pot shot at hunkered enemies even more with the enemy having potentially reduced cover from a Phosphor barrage prior makes me happy inside.
I'm really loving the army synergy overall. My biggest problem is finding a happy balance between high strength long range ballistics and Phosphor. I supposed I should leave Phosphor to the Dragoons and Kastelans and keep the Onegers for the heavy weapons/anti-air.
Edit: What I also find interesting is the fluff explanation for why the Admech don't use vehicles to transport themselves too/from the battlefield. While to many, the fluff shouldn't also cripple an army in that regard, I find myself satisfied with the explanation and adds a very eerie 'terminator' vibe. They just relentlessly stalk their prey. Doesn't matter where you go, or how you get there...they'll find you. (Rangers, in particular). Or no matter where their mission is, they'll trudge along on foot no matter the distance, even leaving days/weeks/months ahead of whomever they may be fighting with to arrive first to make up for their lack of vehicles. Their dedication to the Machine God the only thing they need to keep on moving.
I MAY even hold off on an allied Marine force for a while to get transports (Especially until the FAQ is finalized to be sure to know what to skip on). Luckily my area isn't super meta-game central and a foot bound Admech force, for the most part, should not be getting blown off the table turn one and Admech in general shouldn't be struggling TOO hard to pop their enemies transports in return.
I figured this thread needed a bump because of how awesome the new toys from FW are, and I want to know how you folks plan to use them. With the Hoplites I plan to use a squad of 15 and run them up the board, and I plan to run two minimum squads of Peltasts. I know some might be worried about Hoplites being shot to pieces before they get anywhere, but I think they have to be ran above 10 to get the most from the Shield Generator, and with enough target saturation they could get to the thick of it relatively unscathed. In my next FLGS tournament, I will be planning to proxy the following:
SKITARII MANIPLE
x10 Rangers
. 3 Arquebus, Refractor Field
x10 Rangers
. 3 Arquebus, Refractor Field
x10 Vanguard
. 3 Calivers, Refractor Field
x10 Vanguard
. 3 Calivers, Refractor Field
My only concern is the loadouts of the Rangers and Dunecrawlers. Should I go for Arc Rifles on the Rangers or stick with abusing Precision Shot? Should I keep the Icarus Arrays or leave the Dunecrawlers stock? I also question the value of the 4++/5++ our Alphas can get. Has anyone had luck with those?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I figured this thread needed a bump because of how awesome the new toys from FW are, and I want to know how you folks plan to use them. With the Hoplites I plan to use a squad of 15 and run them up the board, and I plan to run two minimum squads of Peltasts. I know some might be worried about Hoplites being shot to pieces before they get anywhere, but I think they have to be ran above 10 to get the most from the Shield Generator, and with enough target saturation they could get to the thick of it relatively unscathed. In my next FLGS tournament, I will be planning to proxy the following: SKITARII MANIPLE x10 Rangers . 3 Arquebus, Refractor Field x10 Rangers . 3 Arquebus, Refractor Field x10 Vanguard . 3 Calivers, Refractor Field x10 Vanguard . 3 Calivers, Refractor Field
My only concern is the loadouts of the Rangers and Dunecrawlers. Should I go for Arc Rifles on the Rangers or stick with abusing Precision Shot? Should I keep the Icarus Arrays or leave the Dunecrawlers stock? I also question the value of the 4++/5++ our Alphas can get. Has anyone had luck with those?
Not exactly how I would have done it, but it looks pretty good... outside of the arquebus on the rangers. Think of it this way: you are paying 75pts for three single shot bolter rounds that glance rhino's on sevens using 2d6, but your wounding regular infantry on 4's no matter the toughness. now for 45pts you can bring three arc rifles which, while having only 24" range, glance all vehicles on 2's with haywire. Your also wounding most infantry on 2's, and while they have an armor save it can still force your opponent to roll more dice.
2 icarius array onagers may be over kill for flyers, but it would be based on your meta more often then naught.
what I really wanna know is why two cavalier formations?
also, really hope this doesn't count as dread threadcromancy
It is mostly to create target saturation and to help save slots in the Fast Attack. I don't want to bunch the vehicles into a squadron as you know Scatterbikes and Grav can decimate things like that.
Regarding the Arquebus, good point. My issue is that it meshes so much better with their default weapon, but 30 points is 30 points...
Also my meta doesn't see too many fliers, but it is one of the better weapon options because it has so many shots.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: It is mostly to create target saturation and to help save slots in the Fast Attack. I don't want to bunch the vehicles into a squadron as you know Scatterbikes and Grav can decimate things like that.
Regarding the Arquebus, good point. My issue is that it meshes so much better with their default weapon, but 30 points is 30 points...
Also my meta doesn't see too many fliers, but it is one of the better weapon options because it has so many shots.
I suppose so, I just can't seem to bring myself to even dream of buying that many dragoons though. Onagers, sure, but not dragoons.
If there are not mnay fliers, then maybe make one into a neutron laser. str 10 ap 1 is hard to argue with, and if you get the right shot off you can decimate almost anything save MC's and GMC's.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: It is mostly to create target saturation and to help save slots in the Fast Attack. I don't want to bunch the vehicles into a squadron as you know Scatterbikes and Grav can decimate things like that.
Regarding the Arquebus, good point. My issue is that it meshes so much better with their default weapon, but 30 points is 30 points...
Also my meta doesn't see too many fliers, but it is one of the better weapon options because it has so many shots.
I suppose so, I just can't seem to bring myself to even dream of buying that many dragoons though. Onagers, sure, but not dragoons.
If there are not mnay fliers, then maybe make one into a neutron laser. str 10 ap 1 is hard to argue with, and if you get the right shot off you can decimate almost anything save MC's and GMC's.
My friend has like 15 of them for whatever reason and is gracious enough to let me borrow them.
I could maybe turn both of the Icarus Arrays into a Neutron Laser, though I am wary of potentially more Heldrakes showing up thanks to them getting a formation.
dragoons are awesome. gotta get some Reserve help to use that Ironstrider formation tho. Skitarii Maniple can take Fortification so toss in a bunker with comms relay. Good place for another unit to hide in too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Where are the rules for those new Hoplites and titan guard stuff?
Hello guys I've beene offered a nice deal for a Start Collecting + Sydonian Dragon.
I'm not planning on making a whole army of Skitarii although I'd love to have a little allied detachment to add to my Dark Angels's force, would that be a solid start?
suxdavide wrote: Hello guys I've beene offered a nice deal for a Start Collecting + Sydonian Dragon.
I'm not planning on making a whole army of Skitarii although I'd love to have a little allied detachment to add to my Dark Angels's force, would that be a solid start?
the Start Collecting formation is a great ally force. Unfortunately that leaves no place for the Dragoon.
suxdavide wrote: :/ what would I need more the deploy all those together?
Two Troops choices (Kataphron Breachers and/or Kataphron Destroyers) to run with the Tech-Priest for a Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation. The Ranger/Vanguard can run as two mandatory Troop choices for a Skitarii Maniple, with the Onager and Dragoon as optional HS/FA choices.
So forgive me if this has been addressed already in past posts (A very large thread), but how are the Admech doing without allied drop pods?
I ask because I've been uber slow building my army and at which time the FAQ has been worked on (Still in the works, mind you, but unlikely to change I feel. If it doesn't change, hey...i saved some money on Drop Pods and Scouts XD). Thus any plan for bringing in Space Marine allies seems to be a bit less useful for our troops (Vanguard in particular).
Have people just had to suck it up and foot slog for days? Or are people still allying in Space Bawxes of some kind to attempt some form of protection for the unit?
10 more points to stick everyone in Fast Rhinos isn't too bad. To be honest though, unless FW makes them a transport, I'm perfectly okay with footslogging them. The scout move really helps!
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: 10 more points to stick everyone in Fast Rhinos isn't too bad. To be honest though, unless FW makes them a transport, I'm perfectly okay with footslogging them. The scout move really helps!
Fair enough. I suppose as a former Ork player, I'm used to foot dudes getting blown up, but used to them being cheaper so it didn't sting so bad. Though I also seem to overlook the army is still quite fast, and has target saturation in spades. Might not be so bad, especially with Cult Mech stuff being grossly durable.
Canticles of the Omnissiah (In War Convocation) and your dunestrider units are key here, utilizing that Stealth and Shrouded two turns in a row is our army's temporary durability. We exchange having transports for it essentially.
Melevolence wrote: So forgive me if this has been addressed already in past posts (A very large thread), but how are the Admech doing without allied drop pods?
I ask because I've been uber slow building my army and at which time the FAQ has been worked on (Still in the works, mind you, but unlikely to change I feel. If it doesn't change, hey...i saved some money on Drop Pods and Scouts XD). Thus any plan for bringing in Space Marine allies seems to be a bit less useful for our troops (Vanguard in particular).
Have people just had to suck it up and foot slog for days? Or are people still allying in Space Bawxes of some kind to attempt some form of protection for the unit?
Honestly in my group they're not doing too bad. Foot slogging hurts pretty badly, mostly from our resident Eldar jetbike spam player and Imperial Fists with his two full squadrons of Thunderfire Cannons. Besides those two the Skitarii tend to play well against everyone. I usually just pick up the Skitarii Maniple for Scout and hope I make it across the board without being crippled, usually depends on the army. If it's the previous two or Tau, I'll be dead long before I ever reach shooting range, otherwise I can usually make it and still have a chance of winning.
Though my group is kinda homebrewing a Transport right now to make it easier fighting our resident cheese players.
It's a mixed bag honestly. Without transports you really, really have to deploy right. it's like a constant if/then programming for how you should scout and how far forward you should advance.
if the opponent has blasts, then spread out to maximum cohesion while scouting and deploying
if opponent has turn 1 then, hope to steal the initiative before scout and plan accordingly
if opponent is CCW orientated, then let them come to you so you do not scout into the Beserkers / Genestealers
if you cannot get into Rapid fire range with arc rifles against vehicles in two turns or less, then consider other targets or skirt at the edge of 24"
The skitarii are a glass cannon, probably more so than even the Dark Eldar! we have to reenact WW1 Rushes across no man's land every game. A dakka predator is just as scary to our men as a riptide, and a whirlwind may as well be a basilisks for how much it damages us. Because we have to walk across no-man's land, we have to really think about our movements and ranges. we almost have to ally with someone to provide some really meaty units to keep us in the game, like knights or Robots. hell, maybe even a crappton of leman russ's would be awesome to ally with, or the Lucifer armored strike force or something. We make almost everything after all!
I will say though, the Onagers are friggen awesome and probably the best walker / tank in the imperium, so play to that strength if you want to go vehicle heavy.
Also, side note: IS anyone else super jealous that the Peasant Militia Genestealers get both the Chimera AND a new transport , while the friggen tech guard of the adeptus mechanicus have to friggen WALK
Melevolence wrote: So forgive me if this has been addressed already in past posts (A very large thread), but how are the Admech doing without allied drop pods?
I ask because I've been uber slow building my army and at which time the FAQ has been worked on (Still in the works, mind you, but unlikely to change I feel. If it doesn't change, hey...i saved some money on Drop Pods and Scouts XD). Thus any plan for bringing in Space Marine allies seems to be a bit less useful for our troops (Vanguard in particular).
Have people just had to suck it up and foot slog for days? Or are people still allying in Space Bawxes of some kind to attempt some form of protection for the unit?
Honestly in my group they're not doing too bad. Foot slogging hurts pretty badly, mostly from our resident Eldar jetbike spam player and Imperial Fists with his two full squadrons of Thunderfire Cannons. Besides those two the Skitarii tend to play well against everyone. I usually just pick up the Skitarii Maniple for Scout and hope I make it across the board without being crippled, usually depends on the army. If it's the previous two or Tau, I'll be dead long before I ever reach shooting range, otherwise I can usually make it and still have a chance of winning.
Though my group is kinda homebrewing a Transport right now to make it easier fighting our resident cheese players.
Make it a skimmer I want to see that. Skitarii transport a skimmer that would be awesome.
Tiger9gamer wrote: It's a mixed bag honestly. Without transports you really, really have to deploy right. it's like a constant if/then programming for how you should scout and how far forward you should advance.
if the opponent has blasts, then spread out to maximum cohesion while scouting and deploying
if opponent has turn 1 then, hope to steal the initiative before scout and plan accordingly
if opponent is CCW orientated, then let them come to you so you do not scout into the Beserkers / Genestealers
if you cannot get into Rapid fire range with arc rifles against vehicles in two turns or less, then consider other targets or skirt at the edge of 24"
The skitarii are a glass cannon, probably more so than even the Dark Eldar! we have to reenact WW1 Rushes across no man's land every game. A dakka predator is just as scary to our men as a riptide, and a whirlwind may as well be a basilisks for how much it damages us. Because we have to walk across no-man's land, we have to really think about our movements and ranges. we almost have to ally with someone to provide some really meaty units to keep us in the game, like knights or Robots. hell, maybe even a crappton of leman russ's would be awesome to ally with, or the Lucifer armored strike force or something. We make almost everything after all!
I will say though, the Onagers are friggen awesome and probably the best walker / tank in the imperium, so play to that strength if you want to go vehicle heavy.
Don't forget that Dragoons in 3+ squads are amazing, moreso thanks to Crusader for more reliable sweeping advances. Honestly I run two 4 dragoon squads and slam them into blobs and enemy armor with reckless abandon. Pay for the phosphor weapons and you're looking at 5 attacks on the charge, 4 without.
Melevolence wrote: So forgive me if this has been addressed already in past posts (A very large thread), but how are the Admech doing without allied drop pods?
I ask because I've been uber slow building my army and at which time the FAQ has been worked on (Still in the works, mind you, but unlikely to change I feel. If it doesn't change, hey...i saved some money on Drop Pods and Scouts XD). Thus any plan for bringing in Space Marine allies seems to be a bit less useful for our troops (Vanguard in particular).
Have people just had to suck it up and foot slog for days? Or are people still allying in Space Bawxes of some kind to attempt some form of protection for the unit?
Honestly in my group they're not doing too bad. Foot slogging hurts pretty badly, mostly from our resident Eldar jetbike spam player and Imperial Fists with his two full squadrons of Thunderfire Cannons. Besides those two the Skitarii tend to play well against everyone. I usually just pick up the Skitarii Maniple for Scout and hope I make it across the board without being crippled, usually depends on the army. If it's the previous two or Tau, I'll be dead long before I ever reach shooting range, otherwise I can usually make it and still have a chance of winning.
Though my group is kinda homebrewing a Transport right now to make it easier fighting our resident cheese players.
Make it a skimmer I want to see that. Skitarii transport a skimmer that would be awesome.
I've got a thread in Proposed rules for it, though it's not a skimmer.
Tiger9gamer wrote: It's a mixed bag honestly. Without transports you really, really have to deploy right. it's like a constant if/then programming for how you should scout and blah blah imma huge nerd
Don't forget that Dragoons in 3+ squads are amazing, moreso thanks to Crusader for more reliable sweeping advances. Honestly I run two 4 dragoon squads and slam them into blobs and enemy armor with reckless abandon. Pay for the phosphor weapons and you're looking at 5 attacks on the charge, 4 without.
Haaate to break it to you but those weapons are not pistols last time I checked, they are Assault 1, so no extra CCW.
but what you said is true, the dragoons are awesome. I'm just too chicken to buy any more because of the price tag.
Edit: they still get +2 hits on the charge so it's almost a moot point.
Tiger9gamer wrote: It's a mixed bag honestly. Without transports you really, really have to deploy right. it's like a constant if/then programming for how you should scout and blah blah imma huge nerd
Don't forget that Dragoons in 3+ squads are amazing, moreso thanks to Crusader for more reliable sweeping advances. Honestly I run two 4 dragoon squads and slam them into blobs and enemy armor with reckless abandon. Pay for the phosphor weapons and you're looking at 5 attacks on the charge, 4 without.
Haaate to break it to you but those weapons are not pistols last time I checked, they are Assault 1, so no extra CCW.
but what you said is true, the dragoons are awesome. I'm just too chicken to buy any more because of the price tag.
Oh right forgot they got Serpentas not Blastpistols. My mistake so yeah 4 attacks on the charge.
As for the price tag, I completely understand they are expensive. I'm usually proxying mine right now because I'm customizing/destroying my dragoons so they're not standing up like the gigantic target.
Good stuff guys, gives me something to mentally munch on as I build my force. I'm fortunate in the lot I got, it came with 5 of the chicken walkers and 2 Onagers, and I went and bought the Get Started box for a third, plus some extra Vanguard (Extra dominus is moot, but I suppose paining a second could be fun, maybe make that one with a diff load out).
Even from the start I could tell Dragoons would be pretty darn good. i may still consider allying in some Spess Muhrins at some point to try out Rhinos and the like for some transporting later on.
I'm also likely to run into problems as I'm in love with the Electro Priest models. I have a feeling I'll be losing a lot of games in the future as I'll feel the desire to field them regardless of performance. XD
I have had experience footslogging when not playing my drop pod variant (basically if my opponent is obviously more of a fun gamer/really distasted the pods).
I typically just cut the rangers and vanguard down to 5 guys and 2 special weapons each as they become a unreliably tax to get to the target, but otherwise you can still really knock people out on good board setup and use of canticles.
I'm about to try a full game replacing my drop pod detachment with a Librarius Conclave (Tiggy or Loth and two ML2 psykers) and xenos inquisitor with servo skulls to fill the gap at 1850. I fill summoning demons or focusing on one of the new disciplines can really help fill the gap.
TuddFudders wrote: I have had experience footslogging when not playing my drop pod variant (basically if my opponent is obviously more of a fun gamer/really distasted the pods).
I typically just cut the rangers and vanguard down to 5 guys and 2 special weapons each as they become a unreliably tax to get to the target, but otherwise you can still really knock people out on good board setup and use of canticles.
I'm about to try a full game replacing my drop pod detachment with a Librarius Conclave (Tiggy or Loth and two ML2 psykers) and xenos inquisitor with servo skulls to fill the gap at 1850. I fill summoning demons or focusing on one of the new disciplines can really help fill the gap.
Summoning demons? Sounds like someone is feeling a bit heretical today.
So I have been playing Ad Mech for a while and I realized, we have few weaknesses that is really hampering us. That is why I think the way we are right now, unless using War Convication which I dislike heavily, we need some help from our Imperium Brothers.
The biggest one is movement. Even with scout movements we have a very slow army. Our Fast units are just way too Fragile. There is so much STR6 around that it is very hard to get Dragoons into range, and they have such large models that it is really hard to LoS them. Infiltrators are T3 and die to a light breeze.
So for 1850 these are the ideas that I have been trying out. Unfortunetly not all of them are fluffy.
1) Crusader Knight which seems to be the most common option out there, because of War Convo as well. And Fluffy to boost
2) SW Thunderwolf Cavalry. Around 700 Points to get SW Detachment with 1 Iron Priest on wolf with 4 Cyberwolves, 2 3xTWC with SS and 2 mandatory troops. Very Dangerous Force that will draw lots of attention while your main force can move forward.
3) Sky Hammer Annahilation. Again around 700-800 to get some Grav/Melta and a significant fire power that will distract the opponent
4) Legion of the Damned. Probably not very points efficient but fun to use. 3++ Helps them actually survive a bit, and ignores cover also helps greatly.
5) Librarius Conclave. Invis, Phase Form or Electric Displacement can help a crucial unit to get into the right place or shoot.
6) Grey Knight Nemesis Strike Force. Again provides some forward distraction as well as Psychic powers if you choose Librarian (Can be upgraded to L3) as HQ.
I think out of these Thunfer Wolf Cavalry and Sky Hammer fills the Gap in AdMech army the best
You can maybe make some fluffy count as models for the librarius conclave, like have the electric displacement one be a giant Electro-Priest, or maybe a higher function techno guy as a mind machine kind of guy to be a telepath (think brain in a jar?)
Hey guys, I'm a recent convert to the world of Ad Mech looking for a bit of advice. This thread has been invaluable so far and I've got some good ideas and advice from a few of you already which I'm grateful for.
Currently my modest collection consists of the contents of a few Start Collecting boxes and three Sydonian Dragoons and I'm looking for the best way to get some use out of the Tech-Priest Dominus. He's a great unit I'm just not sure how best to for him in. The Dominus Maniple looks okay and the main advantage is that I can fit it into my army without buying any more models, but it means I lose Scout on the units in that formation (which I assume means it's better with Arc Rifle Rangers than Vanguard) and never really gain anything from Canticles. The other alternatives I'd like to look at are a simple Cult Mech CAD/Battle Congregation (Tech-Priest plus one unit of Breachers and one unit of Heavy Grav-Cannon Destroyers - because I won't get enough Grav-Cannons for two units of Destroyers out of two Kataphron Servitor boxes) and the Holy Requisitioner formation. The latter is really cool, except it has to be Breachers, but it does give me some objective grabbing power and a way to threaten most of the board. Anyone had good experience with that formation? Any help is greatly appreciated.
So I have been playing Ad Mech for a while and I realized, we have few weaknesses that is really hampering us. That is why I think the way we are right now, unless using War Convication which I dislike heavily, we need some help from our Imperium Brothers.
The biggest one is movement. Even with scout movements we have a very slow army. Our Fast units are just way too Fragile. There is so much STR6 around that it is very hard to get Dragoons into range, and they have such large models that it is really hard to LoS them. Infiltrators are T3 and die to a light breeze.
So for 1850 these are the ideas that I have been trying out. Unfortunetly not all of them are fluffy.
1) Crusader Knight which seems to be the most common option out there, because of War Convo as well. And Fluffy to boost
2) SW Thunderwolf Cavalry. Around 700 Points to get SW Detachment with 1 Iron Priest on wolf with 4 Cyberwolves, 2 3xTWC with SS and 2 mandatory troops. Very Dangerous Force that will draw lots of attention while your main force can move forward.
3) Sky Hammer Annahilation. Again around 700-800 to get some Grav/Melta and a significant fire power that will distract the opponent
4) Legion of the Damned. Probably not very points efficient but fun to use. 3++ Helps them actually survive a bit, and ignores cover also helps greatly.
5) Librarius Conclave. Invis, Phase Form or Electric Displacement can help a crucial unit to get into the right place or shoot.
6) Grey Knight Nemesis Strike Force. Again provides some forward distraction as well as Psychic powers if you choose Librarian (Can be upgraded to L3) as HQ.
I think out of these Thunfer Wolf Cavalry and Sky Hammer fills the Gap in AdMech army the best
If you're using War Convocation, I personally like running double Knights. 1 Crusader and 1 Paladin. People tend to focus those. Our army's built-in weaknesses are there for a reason IMO. A good Mechanicus player (provided the table has a decent amount of terrain on it) should be able to play around the faction's weaknesses.
Also, you mentioned Skyhammer Annihilation at around 700-800 points. Thats the point cost of a Cohort Cybernetica, a formation from Cult Mech that is reknown for its durability.
Also for 580 you could fit a doubled up Kastelan Maniple into your Mechanicus Congregation and get 60 points of free heavy phosphor and relics/special issue gear for the data smiths.
Capamaru wrote: I am having a battle at 2000 points with eldar against a War Convocation list. Can you guys give me some target priority on his units? Thanks.
Here's some targeting priority for you eldar: suffer not the xeno to live! Ave Omnissiah!
Spoiler:
You will probably want to kill anything carrying grav cannons as soon as possible. Grav tends to crush anything wraith.
If they were both an option in the holy requisition, yes. But they're not. So in a vacuum you'd be right, but with an army that walks everywhere being able to deepstrike something reliably on the other table edge is worth consideration, and in that case your. Hockey isn't destroyers.
If they were both an option in the holy requisition, yes. But they're not. So in a vacuum you'd be right, but with an army that walks everywhere being able to deepstrike something reliably on the other table edge is worth consideration, and in that case your. Hockey isn't destroyers.
If they were both an option in the holy requisition, yes. But they're not. So in a vacuum you'd be right, but with an army that walks everywhere being able to deepstrike something reliably on the other table edge is worth consideration, and in that case your. Hockey isn't destroyers.
build gravbots and don't play Holy Requisition.
Again, you're not necessarily wrong, but you're acting as if the holy requisition isn't a very viable option, and it is. it provides something you can't get elsewhere in the army, you have to consider units in context of an actual game not in a vacuum.
I dislike the mentality that pervades warhammer that there is only ever one good option, it's short sighted.
Tiger9gamer wrote: Question now is if the holy requisition is better or worse than adding some deathwatch or grey knights from imperial agents?
Deathwatch give potential alpha strike capabilities on top of the flier being pretty decent whilst Grey Knights help out a bit in the Psychic Phase, but I think we pack enough firepower to not care about the latter. Dropping Marines in the backfield with little tax is awesome though, especially with Frag Cannons and spamming wounds with the special ammo.
Hey guys, I didn't read all the thread obviously, but as I see in the last pages you see mobility as an issue. Now, I didn't get to play a full game yet (only Kill Team, my 1000 pts list is waiting for my paintbrush), but what do you think about the Ironstrider Cavaliers formation ? Consisting of 2 units of Dragoons and one of Ballistarii, you get the flank attack at turn 1 with a really good chance to succeed your roll, and that means it would be a nice threat to give to the enemy right ? He has to choose between firing at your troops and allow the Ironstriders to charge/fire at his key units, or try to bring them down, and that leaves room to breathe to your guys.
Personally I'll run my list with 10 Vanguards /w plasma, 5 Rangers /w 2 Arquebii, 5 Rangers, one Dragoon, all that allied to 3 grav Destroyers, a Techpriest and a Kastelan Maniple. If I let the Kastelan and the servitors take the hits that should protect most of my guys right ? Really looking forward to see these Kastelan in action, love their models !
The formation ain't too bad. It can get in T2 -3 charges with relative ease. Only issue is that the Ballistarii is mostly a tax. So I guess it depends how much you like that one particular unit. Dragoons are always sexy though.
Yes I keep reading that Ballistarii ain't that good. Still tho, they can help destroy a tank with the twin-linked Cognis Lascannon if he have the shot, to be finished by a charge of Dragoons. If you lack any anti-tank weaponry other than that, but you shouldn't rely only on them to destroy armor though.
I think the real benefit of the formation is that it allows you to take more Dragoons without having to take a second maniple. The Ballistarii is an annoying tax in a vacuum, but less annoying when contextualized - it essentially doubles your FA slots. The extra rules for the formation are ok (some people don't like the outflank), but the extra Dragoons themselves are boss, no question, especially if you're aiming for an MSU build.
Tiger9gamer wrote: Question now is if the holy requisition is better or worse than adding some deathwatch or grey knights from imperial agents?
Deathwatch give potential alpha strike capabilities on top of the flier being pretty decent whilst Grey Knights help out a bit in the Psychic Phase, but I think we pack enough firepower to not care about the latter. Dropping Marines in the backfield with little tax is awesome though, especially with Frag Cannons and spamming wounds with the special ammo.
i was looking at that very same thing. Doing some comparisons though my personal opinion, colored by never actually trying this so grain of salt, is that scions might be a better version of the deathwatch trick. you can get several min squads, with 2 meltas each to drop in and screw up the enemies line.
Where the marines have the advantage is the drop pods, but then you're spending a lot more for 2 squads of deathwatch than 3 of scions, but you do get what you pay for.
The advantage of the requisition would be that your anti vehicle weapons aren't melta range, they're long range. So they can drop right on an objective with no scatter, and if they eliminate their primary target they can keep fulfilling their primary anti vehicle role if they survive, where as deathwatch or scions can't really stay on the objective they drop to while still reaching out to touch someone.
It's an interesting question and i think all three options would provide you with something good.
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Fenris-77 wrote: I think the real benefit of the formation is that it allows you to take more Dragoons without having to take a second maniple. The Ballistarii is an annoying tax in a vacuum, but less annoying when contextualized - it essentially doubles your FA slots. The extra rules for the formation are ok (some people don't like the outflank), but the extra Dragoons themselves are boss, no question, especially if you're aiming for an MSU build.
This here. The ballistari is over-costed. But i've seen games where they did well because your opponent has to decide if they want to shoot something that's probably overkill at it instead of shooting at one of your more important units. If they don't it does have the ability to do damage.
It's also an edge case but I saw a batt-rep where one charged an expensive unit that had no way to hurt it's even measly armor, and since neither was going to hurt the other it tarpitted until eventually the ballistari killed one single guy, the unit ran and it caught them, killing about 6 times it's own point cost.
Tiger9gamer wrote: Question now is if the holy requisition is better or worse than adding some deathwatch or grey knights from imperial agents?
Deathwatch give potential alpha strike capabilities on top of the flier being pretty decent whilst Grey Knights help out a bit in the Psychic Phase, but I think we pack enough firepower to not care about the latter. Dropping Marines in the backfield with little tax is awesome though, especially with Frag Cannons and spamming wounds with the special ammo.
i was looking at that very same thing. Doing some comparisons though my personal opinion, colored by never actually trying this so grain of salt, is that scions might be a better version of the deathwatch trick. you can get several min squads, with 2 meltas each to drop in and screw up the enemies line.
Where the marines have the advantage is the drop pods, but then you're spending a lot more for 2 squads of deathwatch than 3 of scions, but you do get what you pay for.
The advantage of the requisition would be that your anti vehicle weapons aren't melta range, they're long range. So they can drop right on an objective with no scatter, and if they eliminate their primary target they can keep fulfilling their primary anti vehicle role if they survive, where as deathwatch or scions can't really stay on the objective they drop to while still reaching out to touch someone.
It's an interesting question and i think all three options would provide you with something good.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fenris-77 wrote: I think the real benefit of the formation is that it allows you to take more Dragoons without having to take a second maniple. The Ballistarii is an annoying tax in a vacuum, but less annoying when contextualized - it essentially doubles your FA slots. The extra rules for the formation are ok (some people don't like the outflank), but the extra Dragoons themselves are boss, no question, especially if you're aiming for an MSU build.
This here. The ballistari is over-costed. But i've seen games where they did well because your opponent has to decide if they want to shoot something that's probably overkill at it instead of shooting at one of your more important units. If they don't it does have the ability to do damage.
It's also an edge case but I saw a batt-rep where one charged an expensive unit that had no way to hurt it's even measly armor, and since neither was going to hurt the other it tarpitted until eventually the ballistari killed one single guy, the unit ran and it caught them, killing about 6 times it's own point cost.
While that is true about Scions vs Deathwatch, one thing to keep in mind is the Start Collecting formation for Scions. You can potentially keep reusing the Scions for a relationship Ely cheap price and you can steal the Taurox away from them for your own dudes.
Hey guys, what is your opinions on Sicarians ? I got 5 of them that I mounted as Infiltrators with Taser goads and Flechette blasters, but I didn't include them in my 1000 pts list. An excellent player from my local store says they're one of the worst units of the Skitarii, but better than Ruststalkers. Why so ? Are they overpriced ? Too squishy ? It's true that I'm hesitant to paying 185 pts for 5 T3 2W models, but what do I know. Anyone had any experience with these strider guys ?
So, with Imperial Agents, can the War Convocation take Servitors now? There's something perverse about the idea of taking 2 Plasma Cannons for 20 points, Mindlock be damned.
MagicJuggler wrote: So, with Imperial Agents, can the War Convocation take Servitors now? There's something perverse about the idea of taking 2 Plasma Cannons for 20 points, Mindlock be damned.
One iteration of my Scion/Skitarii/Inquisitor list had 3 Servitors with Plasma Cannons for what, 60? They did alright. You can't expect much for those points, and getting them cheaper will only make them better.
MagicJuggler wrote: So, with Imperial Agents, can the War Convocation take Servitors now? There's something perverse about the idea of taking 2 Plasma Cannons for 20 points, Mindlock be damned.
This is a great question. They have the same faction name and symbol, so I believe you can! You may also take a Tech-Priest Enginseer in a Cult Mechanicus detachment, which is much cheaper than a Tech-Priest Dominus!
Quick question here: if I were to fight a war convocation, what would be the best way to handle it ?
My guess is to shoots the weakest units first, in order to deny the canticles etc... and avoiding the knight as much as I could ?
Moreover, I shouldn't bring big AV14 tanks, because of all the grav/haywire.
godardc wrote: Quick question here: if I were to fight a war convocation, what would be the best way to handle it ?
My guess is to shoots the weakest units first, in order to deny the canticles etc... and avoiding the knight as much as I could ?
Moreover, I shouldn't bring big AV14 tanks, because of all the grav/haywire.
Aaranis wrote: Hey guys, what is your opinions on Sicarians ? I got 5 of them that I mounted as Infiltrators with Taser goads and Flechette blasters, but I didn't include them in my 1000 pts list. An excellent player from my local store says they're one of the worst units of the Skitarii, but better than Ruststalkers. Why so ? Are they overpriced ? Too squishy ? It's true that I'm hesitant to paying 185 pts for 5 T3 2W models, but what do I know. Anyone had any experience with these strider guys ?
i think you encountered a case of the "either a unit is insanely OP on paper or it's totally 100% worthless" that pervades gaming communities. lol
They have problems, feel no pain and 2 wounds on a model with only T3 means your feel no pain and 2 wounds don't really count much as they're doubled out by strength 6 guns. But, that still means that your opponent is having to use it's high strength guns for this as regular line troop weapons will still usually give you your armor save, fnp and 2 wounds.
I prefer infiltrators to ruststalkers because they can function in close range shooting, and the disruption aura is really nice. They're a force multiplier so their usefulness can't really be understood by themselves.
They're definitely not awful, but they only really work in concert with good deployment and with other units. Deep strike some allies to disrupt your enemies lines long enough to get the stalkers up the board. use them to counter-charge any melee units that come after your vanguard/rangers, things like that.
godardc wrote: Quick question here: if I were to fight a war convocation, what would be the best way to handle it ? My guess is to shoots the weakest units first, in order to deny the canticles etc... and avoiding the knight as much as I could ?
Moreover, I shouldn't bring big AV14 tanks, because of all the grav/haywire.
Is that right ?
What're you using?
Ultramarines or Imperial Guard armoured company. However, I don't own any centurion or bike.
Probably a demi company with a first company task force.
Probably something that can assault without getting shot too much. Genestealer Cult might be good, or that Ravenguard Strike Force, or Khorne demonkin maybe?
Aaranis wrote: Hey guys, what is your opinions on Sicarians ? I got 5 of them that I mounted as Infiltrators with Taser goads and Flechette blasters, but I didn't include them in my 1000 pts list. An excellent player from my local store says they're one of the worst units of the Skitarii, but better than Ruststalkers. Why so ? Are they overpriced ? Too squishy ? It's true that I'm hesitant to paying 185 pts for 5 T3 2W models, but what do I know. Anyone had any experience with these strider guys ?
i think you encountered a case of the "either a unit is insanely OP on paper or it's totally 100% worthless" that pervades gaming communities. lol
They have problems, feel no pain and 2 wounds on a model with only T3 means your feel no pain and 2 wounds don't really count much as they're doubled out by strength 6 guns. But, that still means that your opponent is having to use it's high strength guns for this as regular line troop weapons will still usually give you your armor save, fnp and 2 wounds.
I prefer infiltrators to ruststalkers because they can function in close range shooting, and the disruption aura is really nice. They're a force multiplier so their usefulness can't really be understood by themselves.
They're definitely not awful, but they only really work in concert with good deployment and with other units. Deep strike some allies to disrupt your enemies lines long enough to get the stalkers up the board. use them to counter-charge any melee units that come after your vanguard/rangers, things like that.
Thing is, I'm really going to play with a lot of shooting, but I still need some CC units to protects my shooters so I don't get butchered by turn 3 (Assault Marines are really indeed fast haha), and I think they'd be good in that role with their aura. However, I feel Ruststalkers might be better used in offense with their grenades and AP-ignoring possibilities. But Infiltrators have Infiltrate and Stealth, so they tend to be better as offensive choices. I'd need two units of 5 to protect my gunlines efficiently, except if my Kastelans are here, because no one would charge a Kastelan without a lot of though guys.
With Belisarus Cawl coming out in the following days and his fantastic stats I was thinking of different ways to field this badass monstrosity.
As he is a pretty short ranged focused character I was thinking of using him with the "Holy Requisitioner" Formation.
Allowing him to deep strike into your opponents line with several Kataphron Breachers will surely make short work of any vehicles protecting an objective and since Belisarus Cawl is quite the badass in cc you could use him in the following turn to take out any group of infantry that also stands nearby. Also love that he can increase the BS of the Breachers while using the Canticles to make them re-roll ones (and twos) to hit. In combination with Cawl this formation could easily drop two enemy vehicles when coming on the table, while a third might also be possible with Cawl's Solar Atomizer, which is actually very good.
Another formation could have been the Cohort Cybernetica with Cawl and the Kastelan Robots silently marching forwards so that they can crush anything on close combat. While this one also seems like a ton of fun, I think having Cawl foot slogging around for serveral turns is not the best option.
So...the Conclave Acquisitorius and Grand Convocation both look vastly inferior to the War Convocation, and they're using the same pattern introduced in Wrath of Magnus of "take the maximum number of choices in this detachment to get a bonus." For the Grand Convocation, this means getting access to Csnticles for your Skitarii...only problem is you have to take 4 Lords of War first!
Cawl looks like an amusing ally if you want to run semi-mech Guard, but his bonuses don't do much for the rest of your army.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Can Cawl join the Cybernetica formation? That seems bad.
He also can't deep strike with Holy Requisitioner because he doesn't have deep strike and isn't a member of the formation which grants it to him.
There was the assumption that Cawl can join any formation while counting as a Tech-Priest Dominus, Just like how Greyfax counts as an Inquisitor for any formation that allows an inquisitor.
"Celestine, Inquistor Greyfax and Belisarius Cawl can be included as an HQ choice for any Army of the Imperium Combined Arms or Allied Detachments (specifically), regardless of faction! In addition, Belisarius Cawl can replace any Tech-Priest Dominus in any existing Cult Mechanicus Formation, and Inquisitor Greyfax can replace an Inquisitor in any Inquisitorial Formation." Source: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/01/fall-cadia-imperial-characters-rules.html
Unit1126PLL wrote: Can Cawl join the Cybernetica formation? That seems bad.
He also can't deep strike with Holy Requisitioner because he doesn't have deep strike and isn't a member of the formation which grants it to him.
There was the assumption that Cawl can join any formation while counting as a Tech-Priest Dominus, Just like how Greyfax counts as an Inquisitor for any formation that allows an inquisitor.
"Celestine, Inquistor Greyfax and Belisarius Cawl can be included as an HQ choice for any Army of the Imperium Combined Arms or Allied Detachments (specifically), regardless of faction! In addition, Belisarius Cawl can replace any Tech-Priest Dominus in any existing Cult Mechanicus Formation, and Inquisitor Greyfax can replace an Inquisitor in any Inquisitorial Formation." Source: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/01/fall-cadia-imperial-characters-rules.html
I'm debating wether or not he would be good in a cohort cybernetica. He can't heal anyone else like a dominus can, and he can only give IWND once per game with canticles. on the other hand, taking him in that formation to tank, while giving a datasmith the multi-rule relic could be good, but that may be too many points for what you get. the extra ballistic skill may be worth while then.
really the biggest head-scratcher is how to use the multi-rule relic and what it would be great with.
Basic War Convocation.
Take 2 Enginseers instead of a Dominus, and two units of Plasma Servitors.
Take a Haemotrope Reactor and Void Shield.
Fill up with leftovers.
Sadly the Battle Congregation only has 1 HQ slots, so no double enginseers. Also I haven't seen the Imperial Agents book yet, but does it actually give them Faction: Cult Mechanicus? I'm worried they're not actually allowed as HQ choices, same with servitors.
Basic War Convocation.
Take 2 Enginseers instead of a Dominus, and two units of Plasma Servitors.
Take a Haemotrope Reactor and Void Shield.
Fill up with leftovers.
Sadly the Battle Congregation only has 1 HQ slots, so no double enginseers. Also I haven't seen the Imperial Agents book yet, but does it actually give them Faction: Cult Mechanicus? I'm worried they're not actually allowed as HQ choices, same with servitors.
Yes they're explicitly Cult Mechanicus. You can also take Servitors which does not suck.
MagicJuggler wrote: So, with Imperial Agents, can the War Convocation take Servitors now? There's something perverse about the idea of taking 2 Plasma Cannons for 20 points, Mindlock be damned.
One iteration of my Scion/Skitarii/Inquisitor list had 3 Servitors with Plasma Cannons for what, 60? They did alright. You can't expect much for those points, and getting them cheaper will only make them better.
What if you throw in one of those cheapo Haemotrope Reactors? Large blasts on those cannons, boom boom.
Basic War Convocation.
Take 2 Enginseers instead of a Dominus, and two units of Plasma Servitors.
Take a Haemotrope Reactor and Void Shield.
Fill up with leftovers.
Sadly the Battle Congregation only has 1 HQ slots, so no double enginseers. Also I haven't seen the Imperial Agents book yet, but does it actually give them Faction: Cult Mechanicus? I'm worried they're not actually allowed as HQ choices, same with servitors.
Yes they're explicitly Cult Mechanicus. You can also take Servitors which does not suck.
Also, while they are Cult Mechanicus, they do not have Canticles of the Omnissiah outside their C:IA detachment.
MagicJuggler wrote: So, with Imperial Agents, can the War Convocation take Servitors now? There's something perverse about the idea of taking 2 Plasma Cannons for 20 points, Mindlock be damned.
One iteration of my Scion/Skitarii/Inquisitor list had 3 Servitors with Plasma Cannons for what, 60? They did alright. You can't expect much for those points, and getting them cheaper will only make them better.
What if you throw in one of those cheapo Haemotrope Reactors? Large blasts on those cannons, boom boom.
That's worth trying. When I first made the list the Reactor wasn't out yet.
Jeebus how many of those Servitor units can you squeeze in a War Convo? If you could pair those with a Libby Conclave fishing for the ignored cover/LOS power good Lord...
For War Convocation the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation has 4 elite slots.... so 20 total? 200 points for 20 plasma cannons sounds pretty awesome. Also of note, the War Convo gives them Canticles since it gives it to every unit, talk about cheap units for canticles power.
pleasantnoodles wrote: For War Convocation the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation has 4 elite slots.... so 20 total? 200 points for 20 plasma cannons sounds pretty awesome. Also of note, the War Convo gives them Canticles since it gives it to every unit, talk about cheap units for canticles power.
Where are you getting these numbers?
My book has servitors costing 10 points each, and 2 per squad can take a plasma cannon at 15 points a pop. So 50 points for two plasma cannon shots, vs. 55 points for a Kataphron Destroyer with culverin. The plasma cannons have longer range, the Kataphron destroyer is mobile, has a save, and doesn't worry about mindlock.
So servitors seem terrible to me. Using them as 10-point additions for Canticle numbers seems good, but in a KP scenario your opponent just has to hunt these guys down to win.
If anything, I think the Digilaser Enginseer would fit nicely in a squad of Vanguard, for 3 base power axe swings that wound marines on 3+, and then a S6 power fist swing that insta-kills said marines.
pleasantnoodles wrote: For War Convocation the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation has 4 elite slots.... so 20 total? 200 points for 20 plasma cannons sounds pretty awesome. Also of note, the War Convo gives them Canticles since it gives it to every unit, talk about cheap units for canticles power.
Where are you getting these numbers?
My book has servitors costing 10 points each, and 2 per squad can take a plasma cannon at 15 points a pop. So 50 points for two plasma cannon shots, vs. 55 points for a Kataphron Destroyer with culverin. The plasma cannons have longer range, the Kataphron destroyer is mobile, has a save, and doesn't worry about mindlock.
So servitors seem terrible to me. Using them as 10-point additions for Canticle numbers seems good, but in a KP scenario your opponent just has to hunt these guys down to win.
If anything, I think the Digilaser Enginseer would fit nicely in a squad of Vanguard, for 3 base power axe swings that wound marines on 3+, and then a S6 power fist swing that insta-kills said marines.
He is getting the number from the fact that servitors are 1-5. There are 4 elite slots in a battle congregation, so 4x5 = 20 dudes. 20 10 point dudes is 200. He is not counting points for plasma cannons because all wargear choices are free in a WarConvo. But, it should be noted that only two servitors may take a weapon, so units stronger than 2 seem wasteful to me. 80 points for 8 plasma cannon shots isn't bad at all though.
Second, a S6 servo arm swing doesn't instant death marines, but isn't he S4 anyways? (I need to check that)
pleasantnoodles wrote: For War Convocation the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation has 4 elite slots.... so 20 total? 200 points for 20 plasma cannons sounds pretty awesome. Also of note, the War Convo gives them Canticles since it gives it to every unit, talk about cheap units for canticles power.
Where are you getting these numbers?
My book has servitors costing 10 points each, and 2 per squad can take a plasma cannon at 15 points a pop. So 50 points for two plasma cannon shots, vs. 55 points for a Kataphron Destroyer with culverin. The plasma cannons have longer range, the Kataphron destroyer is mobile, has a save, and doesn't worry about mindlock.
So servitors seem terrible to me. Using them as 10-point additions for Canticle numbers seems good, but in a KP scenario your opponent just has to hunt these guys down to win.
If anything, I think the Digilaser Enginseer would fit nicely in a squad of Vanguard, for 3 base power axe swings that wound marines on 3+, and then a S6 power fist swing that insta-kills said marines.
He is getting the number from the fact that servitors are 1-5. There are 4 elite slots in a battle congregation, so 4x5 = 20 dudes. 20 10 point dudes is 200. He is not counting points for plasma cannons because all wargear choices are free in a WarConvo. But, it should be noted that only two servitors may take a weapon, so units stronger than 2 seem wasteful to me. 80 points for 8 plasma cannon shots isn't bad at all though.
Second, a S6 servo arm swing doesn't instant death marines, but isn't he S4 anyways? (I need to check that)
Those points compare extremely poorly to Kataphron Destroyers, as I mentioned above. Mindlock is a bad thing.
Your numbers don't make sense to me either. Each plasma cannon servitor is 25 points, so 75 points would buy you 3 plasma cannon shots, not 8.
He is S3, with power axe for +1S, and I was specifically talking about a Vanguard unit that would reduce toughness, so effective S5 vs marines. The marines would be T3 vs the S6 servo-arm.
D'oh, I missed out on the vanguard. You're right. But a servitor is 10 points. When in a Warconvo, that plasma cannon is free. So, stil 10 points. I agree a plasma servitor isn't worth 25. But it is worth 10.
pleasantnoodles wrote: For War Convocation the Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation has 4 elite slots.... so 20 total? 200 points for 20 plasma cannons sounds pretty awesome. Also of note, the War Convo gives them Canticles since it gives it to every unit, talk about cheap units for canticles power.
Where are you getting these numbers?
My book has servitors costing 10 points each, and 2 per squad can take a plasma cannon at 15 points a pop. So 50 points for two plasma cannon shots, vs. 55 points for a Kataphron Destroyer with culverin. The plasma cannons have longer range, the Kataphron destroyer is mobile, has a save, and doesn't worry about mindlock.
So servitors seem terrible to me. Using them as 10-point additions for Canticle numbers seems good, but in a KP scenario your opponent just has to hunt these guys down to win.
If anything, I think the Digilaser Enginseer would fit nicely in a squad of Vanguard, for 3 base power axe swings that wound marines on 3+, and then a S6 power fist swing that insta-kills said marines.
He is getting the number from the fact that servitors are 1-5. There are 4 elite slots in a battle congregation, so 4x5 = 20 dudes. 20 10 point dudes is 200. He is not counting points for plasma cannons because all wargear choices are free in a WarConvo. But, it should be noted that only two servitors may take a weapon, so units stronger than 2 seem wasteful to me. 80 points for 8 plasma cannon shots isn't bad at all though.
Second, a S6 servo arm swing doesn't instant death marines, but isn't he S4 anyways? (I need to check that)
Those points compare extremely poorly to Kataphron Destroyers, as I mentioned above. Mindlock is a bad thing.
Your numbers don't make sense to me either. Each plasma cannon servitor is 25 points, so 75 points would buy you 3 plasma cannon shots, not 8.
He is S3, with power axe for +1S, and I was specifically talking about a Vanguard unit that would reduce toughness, so effective S5 vs marines. The marines would be T3 vs the S6 servo-arm.
Plasma cannons are free in War Convocation so plasma servitors are 10 pts, not 25.
Has anyone found a great way to field Cawl with a War Convocation? I'm really desiring double Imperial Bunkers with escape hatches to allow my destroyers to get in range or give them some durability if needing to hang back. I'd love to not give up the dominus, but to fit him with a warden knights and a dragoon with double bunkers I would need an imperial cad with 40 point or less per squad of troops, which I can't seem to find anywhere. I guess anyone know of 40pt or less squads of troops for imperials?
pleasantnoodles wrote: Has anyone found a great way to field Cawl with a War Convocation? I'm really desiring double Imperial Bunkers with escape hatches to allow my destroyers to get in range or give them some durability if needing to hang back. I'd love to not give up the dominus, but to fit him with a warden knights and a dragoon with double bunkers I would need an imperial cad with 40 point or less per squad of troops, which I can't seem to find anywhere. I guess anyone know of 40pt or less squads of troops for imperials?
If you don't take Cawl as Warlord you could do allied detachment. 80 point troop squads open up quite a bit.
Though come to think of it it may prevent the dominus from being Warlord as well since they are same faction.
pleasantnoodles wrote: Has anyone found a great way to field Cawl with a War Convocation? I'm really desiring double Imperial Bunkers with escape hatches to allow my destroyers to get in range or give them some durability if needing to hang back. I'd love to not give up the dominus, but to fit him with a warden knights and a dragoon with double bunkers I would need an imperial cad with 40 point or less per squad of troops, which I can't seem to find anywhere. I guess anyone know of 40pt or less squads of troops for imperials?
If you don't take Cawl as Warlord you could do allied detachment. 80 point troop squads open up quite a bit.
Though come to think of it it may prevent the dominus from being Warlord as well since they are same faction.
Also taking Cawl in an allied detachment keeps him from being Warlord, so no reroll FNP :(
With the book now officially released, what are thoughts on the two new AdMech detachments?
My initial impressions on Conclave Aquisitorius is total junk. At its minimum build, which is all you can play at normal point value games, it is basically the same unit composition as War Convocation ply Cawl. You are taking Breachers instead of the better/more popular Destroyers but otherwise the same. Unfortunately you trade all free upgrades for masterwork weapons which is just a bad deal. I can't see any reason at all to take this over War Con.
Grand Convocation is slightly better. Running 3 IKs and a couple Onagers with IWND isn't terrible for vehicle heavy AdMech. Still not as good as War Con but that is to be expected. This at least has more flexibility and will scale down better for small games.
I don't think we're going to see any change to the competitive scene either way. War Convocation free upgrades is just too good to pass up in that environment.
At small points games Conclave Aquisitorius is solid due to gaining army wide Canticles but War Convocation is still king by far.
Grand Convocation while cool in theory is actually of little benefit you are better off taking formations and running unbound. Basically the only thing you are gaining is IWND on vehicles, and on a rare case POM.
Which sounds great however most of your vehicles are AR 12 or less and IWND only works if they don't die. So basically its a buff to knights.
Having played a lot of 30k admech where the entire army's vehicles can have IWND with a HQ choice. It really amounts to very little since more often than not your opponent is going to finish off the target before you have a chance to roll for IWND.
and POM is only really going to help Onager Dunecrawlers, and even then its going to be situational. And before you go off on but Crawls 3x IWND ability. ...
Its not affecting the knights or skitarii unless their 12 inches from him or you are running above 3500 points.
This detachment also has the foresight to remove the options of taking any forgeworld units like secutarii peltasts, knight variants, or any imperial armour 16 fires of cyraxus goodness that may be bestowed.
I am not saying this is a bad detachment, but locking Canticles behind a huge points wall and offering very little otherwise.
I have been wanting a combination of the two codexes since they first came out, but compare this to any decurion style formation and you will see it sorely lacking.
Stick with unbound, take the formations you want, or run 2 detachments from the codexes and toss Crawl in.
Azeroth133 wrote: At small points games Conclave Aquisitorius is solid due to gaining army wide Canticles but War Convocation is still king by far.
Unfortunately minimum choices and no upgrades puts you at around 1530 points so it isn't playable in small games. :(
I really wish they had switched the benefits of the two detachments. Oh well. Here's hoping Forge World does better if they ever get around to releasing that IA book.
Sigh, seems like more rules written by people who don't play.
The grand convocation was close, I thought, awesome now I can finally build my ad mech like it's one faction instead of being spread over 3 books who's list building doesn't work together. They fixed it.....nope. Granted you can build an actual ad mech list with it without all the stupid unnecessary restrictions, but the command benefit is IWND on an army with one vehicle.
Danny slag wrote: Sigh, seems like more rules written by people who don't play. The grand convocation was close, I thought, awesome now I can finally build my ad mech like it's one faction instead of being spread over 3 books who's list building doesn't work together. They fixed it.....nope. Granted you can build an actual ad mech list with it without all the stupid unnecessary restrictions, but the command benefit is IWND on an army with one vehicle.
yea, the more rules that come out for admec the more I see that GW has no clue what to really do with them. Like, there are good ideas that are fun, but for every step forward there is a step back. For example, giving us regular enginseers and servitors for cult mechanicus through imperial agents is a great idea! but then they didn't give them canticles natively and they cannot buff Adeptus mechanicus vehicles, only astra militarum.
They gave us an awesome list for vehicles that is super fluffy for mechanicus, but they failed to give us any more vehicles that were not adeptus mechanicus already. And to further slap our nuts on the very next page they have a super formation with nearly every army from the imperium BESIDES the mechanicus. if they at least gave us leman russ's or a hellhound I would have been a happy camper, but god forbid they put any more vehicles into the army that fething makes them a single rhino would have been great too.
I dunno. I feel like they should ask a freelancer who plays mechanicus to actually write the rules after playing the army for a year.
Servitors in the war convocation sounds pretty good, but finding a cheap independant character to keep them from being mindlocked is the tricky part. The cheapest I can think of is a ministorum priest for 25 points which over doubles the points and exactly doubles the expected damage output. 45 points for 2 plasma cannons is still probably worth it. 4 units plus a reactor is 220 for eight S7 ap2 large blasts every turn. I could see shelling out the points for coteaz to give the one squad interceptor. Only 120 if you cut out the priests though. You lose half the firepower but it is now itc legal. Even for just an average of 4 blasts a turn it seems pretty worth it.
Still if nothing else 10 points for the extra Canticles, that can just sit on objectives, and fire a plasma blast every once in awhile seems pretty good. No matter what your opponent shoots at them it is going to be overkill. Even having just a tac squad firing bolters at them instead of your rangers would be worth.
coblen wrote: Servitors in the war convocation sounds pretty good, but finding a cheap independant character to keep them from being mindlocked is the tricky part. The cheapest I can think of is a ministorum priest for 25 points which over doubles the points and exactly doubles the expected damage output. 45 points for 2 plasma cannons is still probably worth it. 4 units plus a reactor is 220 for eight S7 ap2 large blasts every turn. I could see shelling out the points for coteaz to give the one squad interceptor. Only 120 if you cut out the priests though. You lose half the firepower but it is now itc legal. Even for just an average of 4 blasts a turn it seems pretty worth it.
Still if nothing else 10 points for the extra Canticles, that can just sit on objectives, and fire a plasma blast every once in awhile seems pretty good. No matter what your opponent shoots at them it is going to be overkill. Even having just a tac squad firing bolters at them instead of your rangers would be worth.
For 25 points, wouldn't it be better to take barebones Inquisitors. Ld10, Stubborn, 3W (albeit at T3) and a 4+ (give them a 3+ for 3pts) seems like a pretty decent babysitter.
If there's no detachment limit in whatever game you're playing, you could even take them from separate Inquisition detachments and both would get to roll a Warlord trait (even if they aren't your Warlord). That's pretty nifty.
coblen wrote: Servitors in the war convocation sounds pretty good, but finding a cheap independant character to keep them from being mindlocked is the tricky part. The cheapest I can think of is a ministorum priest for 25 points which over doubles the points and exactly doubles the expected damage output. 45 points for 2 plasma cannons is still probably worth it. 4 units plus a reactor is 220 for eight S7 ap2 large blasts every turn. I could see shelling out the points for coteaz to give the one squad interceptor. Only 120 if you cut out the priests though. You lose half the firepower but it is now itc legal. Even for just an average of 4 blasts a turn it seems pretty worth it.
Still if nothing else 10 points for the extra Canticles, that can just sit on objectives, and fire a plasma blast every once in awhile seems pretty good. No matter what your opponent shoots at them it is going to be overkill. Even having just a tac squad firing bolters at them instead of your rangers would be worth.
For 25 points, wouldn't it be better to take barebones Inquisitors. Ld10, Stubborn, 3W (albeit at T3) and a 4+ (give them a 3+ for 3pts) seems like a pretty decent babysitter.
If there's no detachment limit in whatever game you're playing, you could even take them from separate Inquisition detachments and both would get to roll a Warlord trait (even if they aren't your Warlord). That's pretty nifty.
DoW
That sounds better in almost every way. In fact it sounds pretty damn amazing. 4 extra warlord traits can go a long way to getting one that you want. I don't know what I would end up rolling on most of the time. Probably just strategic hoping for more infiltrators. Ordo hereticus sounds good too with reader of the tarot, burner of worlds, and master of interrogation all looking pretty good. If you are playing with the tactical objectives from the rulebook extra rolls on the tactical traits can give a lot of control over the cards. There are a lot of options there.
Another thing I've been thinking about that involves adding that good ol 25 point inquisitor, bring cawl and give the inquisitor the relic that lets you use skyfire. Then, attach him to a 5 man unit with arqebuses. Skyfire 60" 360 degrees armorbane sniper rifles. Grab the unit an omnispex and even flyrants have a good chance that they'll be making grounding checks. Any AV10 flier is royally screwed and will have a hard time reaching them before the rifles shoot. And let us not forget, you can pick tank or monster hunter as well and they come stock ap3...
Not saying they're finally worth that 25 points, but still...
Nelson Mechanized wrote: Another thing I've been thinking about that involves adding that good ol 25 point inquisitor, bring cawl and give the inquisitor the relic that lets you use skyfire. Then, attach him to a 5 man unit with arqebuses. Skyfire 60" 360 degrees armorbane sniper rifles. Grab the unit an omnispex and even flyrants have a good chance that they'll be making grounding checks. Any AV10 flier is royally screwed and will have a hard time reaching them before the rifles shoot. And let us not forget, you can pick tank or monster hunter as well and they come stock ap3...
Not saying they're finally worth that 25 points, but still...
Why would you need the inquisitor couldn't the skitarii ranger character just take it. Makes it free in a war convocation as well. Even still though Arquebus' are far from impressive. Its worse than a missile launcher at killing armour 10-13, and exactly even at armour 14.
If I was going to put it on an inquisitor I think breachers would be better. 24"grav with skyfire, monster hunter, or tank hunter is pretty scary. Immobilizations are pretty good against flyers, and way way better against FMC's which I think are more common. Although I suppose its garbage against kairos and that's the flyer that needs to die the most.
The 25 point inquisitor and the 10 point plasma servitor is the basis of my LVO list. In ITC you can take 3 detachments, so this is my current thinking:
Nelson Mechanized wrote: Another thing I've been thinking about that involves adding that good ol 25 point inquisitor, bring cawl and give the inquisitor the relic that lets you use skyfire. Then, attach him to a 5 man unit with arqebuses. Skyfire 60" 360 degrees armorbane sniper rifles. Grab the unit an omnispex and even flyrants have a good chance that they'll be making grounding checks. Any AV10 flier is royally screwed and will have a hard time reaching them before the rifles shoot. And let us not forget, you can pick tank or monster hunter as well and they come stock ap3...
Not saying they're finally worth that 25 points, but still...
Why would you need the inquisitor couldn't the skitarii ranger character just take it. Makes it free in a war convocation as well. Even still though Arquebus' are far from impressive. Its worse than a missile launcher at killing armour 10-13, and exactly even at armour 14.
If I was going to put it on an inquisitor I think breachers would be better. 24"grav with skyfire, monster hunter, or tank hunter is pretty scary. Immobilizations are pretty good against flyers, and way way better against FMC's which I think are more common. Although I suppose its garbage against kairos and that's the flyer that needs to die the most.
The best way to run a CawlVocation is to run Cawl in an Allied Skitarri CAD. That way you can give the Memento-Mortispex to the Dominus in your War Convocation for free. You really want that Memento-Mortispec on an IC so you can keep moving it from unit to unit as the units die.
It says 'army' not detachment, so Cawl anywhere grants access to his relics. Having him in a side detachment really buffs up your WarCon. Page 134 (some words omitted):
"Characters that can normally take a relic and have been selected as part of a Conclave, Grand Convocation, or are in an ARMY that includes Cawl, can select one of the following Arcana Mechanium. ..."
EDIT: If you really needed the memento mortispex but wanted to pay a smaller tax than an extra dominus, vanguard, and ranger squad, you could run Cawl as your HQ in the WarCon but take a 25 point inquisitor and pay 30 points for the mortispex.
The best way to run a CawlVocation is to run Cawl in an Allied Skitarri CAD. That way you can give the Memento-Mortispex to the Dominus in your War Convocation for free. You really want that Memento-Mortispec on an IC so you can keep moving it from unit to unit as the units die.
The points still add up, I will edit the Onager in.
EDIT: what are you guys thinking for counter daemon lists? I am thinking of tweaking my servitor/haeomotrope list to drop a ballistari and some rangers to squeeze in a second icarus. Yeah, the second icarus won't help me versus tau, but daemon lists are devastating to warcon and I need more anti FMC in my list.
Nelson Mechanized wrote: Another thing I've been thinking about that involves adding that good ol 25 point inquisitor, bring cawl and give the inquisitor the relic that lets you use skyfire. Then, attach him to a 5 man unit with arqebuses. Skyfire 60" 360 degrees armorbane sniper rifles. Grab the unit an omnispex and even flyrants have a good chance that they'll be making grounding checks. Any AV10 flier is royally screwed and will have a hard time reaching them before the rifles shoot. And let us not forget, you can pick tank or monster hunter as well and they come stock ap3...
Not saying they're finally worth that 25 points, but still...
Why would you need the inquisitor couldn't the skitarii ranger character just take it. Makes it free in a war convocation as well. Even still though Arquebus' are far from impressive. Its worse than a missile launcher at killing armour 10-13, and exactly even at armour 14.
If I was going to put it on an inquisitor I think breachers would be better. 24"grav with skyfire, monster hunter, or tank hunter is pretty scary. Immobilizations are pretty good against flyers, and way way better against FMC's which I think are more common. Although I suppose its garbage against kairos and that's the flyer that needs to die the most.
But, you're not taking arqebuses w/ that relic to crack av14. You're taking it to wreck transports and fliers. Most fliers are av10 so w/ an average of a 7, your odds of a pen are high. The icarus is overkill and clunky. All you need to do is put them on snap shots or a crew stunned. That'll all but negate anything a flier can do. And at 60", no flier should be able to take them off the board before they shoot.
The arc rifles may kill things outright, but the trick isn't killing things outright, it's slowing the whole army. Fliers are screwed, period. Especially if you take 3 arqebuses. Transport either have to eat the shots or move to avoid LoS which will slow them down. Most people aren't bringing a full army of landraiders. MC's are still at a disadvantage w/ the long guns being ap3 stock, and fmcs won't be any worse off facing an icarus. The 360 degree 60" omni directional is the big difference.
And, worse case scenario, you still have 2 units of grav. Move the inquisitor to them. That's why it's better on the inquisitor than the alpha. All I'm saying is that basically a unit with 3 arqebuses and that relic has way more potential and utility than an icarus. Onager slots should go to neutron lasers.
Probably been discussed already but anyone found away of fielding an effective Skitarii CAD now they can take Cawl as a HQ?
Objective secured probably isn't worth the loss of mobility the the maniple offers but does finally allow you to field an Ordinatus. Also seems to be some synergy between forgeworld secutarii and Cawl with them allowing him to reroll fails on his 2+ armor save aswell as making him effectively T7, Peltasts would be more effective but I feel the Hoplites would look the part as a bodyguard unit.
These options together could make a pretty cool aesthetic for an army in my opinion (big mar machine supported by a mob of infantry) but I can't think of a way to make it effective on the table, especially lacking mobilty. How do people find dragoons or ironstriders as objective grabbers in this case? Sure they lack obsec but dunestrider seems a pretty handy rule.
Dragoons are great in maelstrom games were you might get an turn objective saying you have to have objective 1 t/m 6 at the end of your turn. Dragoons are then fantastic to have, 9'' movement and then a D6+3 run allows them to take any objective not contested by your opponent. They are also good enough on the charge to take small groups of objective huggers out.
So I have been rethinking my LVO list, and I think this is the final iteration. I banged out some more converted and magnetized Skitarri-Kataphron-Servitors. The only changes I am considering are maybe Ballistari? But I think the lancers will live longer and possible grab me an objective to allow me to win. I am also considering dropping the second inquisitor (who gets me another strategic warlord trait) in favor of a 25 point astropath with level 1 in telepathy.
Wulfey wrote: So I have been rethinking my LVO list, and I think this is the final iteration. I banged out some more converted and magnetized Skitarri-Kataphron-Servitors. The only changes I am considering are maybe Ballistari? But I think the lancers will live longer and possible grab me an objective to allow me to win. I am also considering dropping the second inquisitor (who gets me another strategic warlord trait) in favor of a 25 point astropath with level 1 in telepathy.
Inquisition Representative 2
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor (25pt.) Psyk-out grenades;
I would keep the Dragoons. They are fast enough to keep up with your infiltrators and their inbuilt coversave helps them a lot and with an army like this one, having some quick units to capture objectives with are never a bad choice.
I would however reconsider the plasma on your rangers for Arc rifles or Arquebus to keep them the long ranged unit they are.
Also, do not drop the inquisitor for an astropath. An extra warlord trait is worth more then only one measly psyker level.
Wulfey wrote: So I have been rethinking my LVO list, and I think this is the final iteration. I banged out some more converted and magnetized Skitarri-Kataphron-Servitors. The only changes I am considering are maybe Ballistari? But I think the lancers will live longer and possible grab me an objective to allow me to win. I am also considering dropping the second inquisitor (who gets me another strategic warlord trait) in favor of a 25 point astropath with level 1 in telepathy.
Where have you had success with the Arquebus? I modeled up three of them as soon as I got my kits because they looked so cool but the rules were so trash.
I could see using the Arc Rifles. I have very low expectations from the Arquebus's. I think they are terrible. They are one shot weapons that have only a 50% chance to wound a Space Marine. It is cool that they also have a 50% chance to wound a Riptide ... but they are only AP3. Each Arquebus has about a 58% (7 on a 2D6) chance of glancing AV11. I am pretty sure the Arc Rifle with its Str 6 has at least the same odds to wound against any imaginable T6 or less opponent but many times the odds to harm a vehicle compares to the Arquebus. I get that the Arquebus has 60" range ... but using that 60" range means the rest of my ranger squad likely isn't firing.
I run all plasma because I like my infantry up there and shooting. Everyone poops on the Ranger's rifles, but if you can get into rapid fire range then Rangers can be as deadly as Vanguard. The plasma threatens everything and happens to synergize with Skryerskull Perspicatus and the Haemotropes if I get desperate.
EDIT: with regards to using servitors, my logic is as follows:
Warcon has a Cult Mech Battle Congregation Cult Mech Battle Congregation is limited to (and allows) Cult Mechanicus faction units Imperial Agents added 'Cult Mechanicus' servitors as an elites option Battle Congregation has 4 elite slots for 'Cult Mechanicus' units
Ah ok, that makes sense, I was not aware that they could be taken as an Elite choice on their own, thought you needed an Enginseer to unlock them as an option
Plasma lists with a Haematrope do look pretty fun though
Wulfey wrote: Where have you had success with the Arquebus? I modeled up three of them as soon as I got my kits because they looked so cool but the rules were so trash.
I could see using the Arc Rifles. I have very low expectations from the Arquebus's. I think they are terrible. They are one shot weapons that have only a 50% chance to wound a Space Marine. It is cool that they also have a 50% chance to wound a Riptide ... but they are only AP3. Each Arquebus has about a 58% (7 on a 2D6) chance of glancing AV11. I am pretty sure the Arc Rifle with its Str 6 has at least the same odds to wound against any imaginable T6 or less opponent but many times the odds to harm a vehicle compares to the Arquebus. I get that the Arquebus has 60" range ... but using that 60" range means the rest of my ranger squad likely isn't firing.
I run all plasma because I like my infantry up there and shooting. Everyone poops on the Ranger's rifles, but if you can get into rapid fire range then Rangers can be as deadly as Vanguard. The plasma threatens everything and happens to synergize with Skryerskull Perspicatus and the Haemotropes if I get desperate.
EDIT: with regards to using servitors, my logic is as follows:
Warcon has a Cult Mech Battle Congregation
Cult Mech Battle Congregation is limited to (and allows) Cult Mechanicus faction units
Imperial Agents added 'Cult Mechanicus' servitors as an elites option
Battle Congregation has 4 elite slots for 'Cult Mechanicus' units
Sure Atquebus's are not that great, I agree with you on that. Still loving the model.
But having a squad of rangers with Arc rifles is great, their S4 hit is good enough to help you out sometimes when shooting at AV10. In my local meta there are enough people who use AV10 transports and walker units so when the haywire fails to deliver, the rangers still have the option to use their guns. Give it a try, they never fail me in making their own points back.
Now one question from me, does the LVO allow you to take the secutarii units from Forgeworld as elite options?
WrentheFaceless wrote: Yes ITC allows the Secutarii, the only issue is that they're not usually taken as they cant go in a War Convocation.
Ah, alright.
I kinda try to stay away from the War Convocation formation these days and try out some other Admech builds. I have had quite some success on smaller local tournaments.
And I really like the Secutarii Peltast, since they are quite versatile.
Guys I'm starting to build a 2000 pts list to know where to go with my purchases, and I was wondering.
I want to stay Battleforged, really not Unbound at all so. I'd like to include a Cohort Cybernetica in my list. Can I run my Skitarii list allied with Cult Mechanicus this way ? Or to have them as allies, I absolutely require an Allied detachment ? I don't really want to have two Techpriests but I'd like to run my Kastelans efficiently, so this formation seemed the best with an Autocaduceus to keep them alive.
I hope I'm being clear, my English is not perfect so it's hard to formulate difficult sentences haha
Ah okay thanks I was always confused with those. So I can take it ? Nice ! However I won't have any place for my lone Kataphron unit then, I might have to swap some stuff.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Would it be cheesy to have 6 Robots in my Cohort Cybernetica at 2000 pts ? And also, Power Fists for them, yay or nay ?
Cohort Cybernetics with 6 robots and no upgrades is still over 900 points. Throw in a relic and an upgrade or two and you are looking at that being over half your army in a single slow moving unit. A strong unit, but a single unit with 6"movement can be avoided so I don't see it as cheesy.
General consensus is no on power fists. They are strength 6 naturally which is good enough for most things, and AP2 from being an MC. If you really need the strength 10 smash let's you do that too only losing one attack each.
You could run Cohort Cybernetica like Joshua Death's Tripartite lance list. You bring 1100 points with of robots, 400 worth of conclave, and 350 worth of psykana division. The psykana spams demon summoning, the conclave unloads buffs on the cohort.
I usually run CoHort cybernetica at around 800pts with the rest in skitarii, with heavy tanks and the like. a good number of bodies backing up a solid wall of robotics seems like a good idea generally, and it can lay down the hurt well enough while providing a tough brick in the center of the army.
That being said I can't wait for FW's Castelex instead. I like 4W robots more than FNP.
3x Kastelan Robots and 1 Datasmith, Twin-linked Heavy Phosphor Blasters, Incendine Combustor - 440 pts
3x Kastelan Robots and 1 Datasmith, Twin-linked Heavy Phosphor Blasters, Incendine Combustor - 440 pts
1x Techpriest Dominus, Volkite Blaster and Macrostubber, Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land, Raiment of the Technomartyrs - 165 pts
The Warlord's unit is basically just a dakka dispenser, I think about keeping them close to the Onagers so they can protect them and benefit from the Ld10 due to the Onagers and their Broad Spectrum Data Tether.
The other Vanguards squad should try to follow close to the Sicarians if that works, to assist them in melee and shoot vehicles.
The Sicarian will try to murder anything they get close to, with assistance from the Radsquad to get the most out of the debuffs.
Dragoons are going to do Dragoon stuff, so charging weak squad or light vehicles.
Onagers will stay away from the heat of battle and sow S10 Blasts everywhere, because that works. Additional Heavy Stubbers are there because I had the points and they allow them to shoot really meanly with that much guns on anything coming close to them. More of an insurance really.
And of course the Cohort Cybernetica, delivering torrent flames and loads of S6 shots while being basically invincible of I'm lucky enough. The Techpriest is an additional shooting force but I guess most of the time he'll redirect shots from the Kastelan and repair them.
What do you think about this ? I don't know what kind of lists I could face at this points level, but it looks like I can cover almost any situations. Maybe things could get difficult against things like Genestealers who can ambush and stuff.
Aaranis wrote: Ah okay thanks I was always confused with those. So I can take it ? Nice ! However I won't have any place for my lone Kataphron unit then, I might have to swap some stuff.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Would it be cheesy to have 6 Robots in my Cohort Cybernetica at 2000 pts ? And also, Power Fists for them, yay or nay ?
IMHO the best possible build for Robots is TL Hvy Phosphor blasters and the TORRENT Flamer as carapace weapon. With the Cohort, you can effectively get the base package to have all 4 Robots fire at different targets. Against, horde lists, that's GG right there.
Oh I'm going to mount them all this way, I need flamers, and torrent flamers are even better !
On a side note, I'm thinking about placing a Hellrain Brigade in a 1500 pts list as allies for an AdMech force. Would it be nice ? It's seems pretty cool from my newbie point of view. As long as I keep the Commissar alive I can send suicide squads to get vehicles or anything else in Deep Strike. And I keep the Taurox for my Vanguards Plasma squad or anything else. Rules of the detachment below:
Spoiler:
Nothing prevents me to grab two of these detachments right ? Could use two Tauroxes, and that would just make me buy two Start Collecting boxes. I like infantry, so if I could take an alternative to Kataphron spam that would be nice. Kastelans forever though, and Techpriests. I'll look up the rules of Fall of Cadia someday, I'll ask my LGS if I can borrow it from someone. There seems to be a bunch of cool rules in there.
Yep, take two of them. Make the suicide squad all Plasma, including a Plasma Pistol, and make the Command Squad all Melta or Volley Guns (if you're holding an objective). Deep Strike all of them no matter what and just sit back and enjoy a respawning squad and stuff.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Yep, take two of them. Make the suicide squad all Plasma, including a Plasma Pistol, and make the Command Squad all Melta or Volley Guns (if you're holding an objective). Deep Strike all of them no matter what and just sit back and enjoy a respawning squad and stuff.
Hmm the Command Squad doesn't respawn though, so thinking about outfitting them with Volley Guns to have some nice staying power. I was thinking about using a Plasma pistol, Meltagun and a Volley Gun or Flamer for the regular squad, in the 1500 pts list I made. I already have a Plasma Caliver in my Warlord's unit and he'll have the Taurox, so I don't know if any more is necessary ?
With Plasma you can guarantee them dying much quicker and getting the most out of the formation. Also doesn't matter if the command squad won't respond. 5 Melta Guns wasn't meant to live anyway. Pop your big target and live with the fact they're dead next turn.
I was thinking about full Volley Gun in the command squad, and keep the regular squad without too much points in it honestly, maybe a Plasma pistol for the range. My Warlord's unit is already going to have Preferred Enemy with two Plasma Calivers, so I don't think having any more is really useful to have apart costing me points. As for the anti-tank, I planned for two Arquebii,three Kataphrons with Gravguns, a Dragoon and an Onager with Neutron Laser. Isn't that enough to deal with armour ? In 1500 pts games that is. I still need some Troops to grab objectives after all, and shoot those marines.
Just ran my servitor list at LVO ... hard lesson ... leave the haemotrope reactors and servitors at home. They are going on the shelf permanently or being used as the basis for some conversions into librarians or something. I regard them as dead units. At the 1850 ITC competitive level, there is no way that nonsense is viable.
EDIT: Going forwards in ITC ... I will try to play some kind of Cawl based army ... but I am very dubious that lists that don't have herds of daemon princes are viable at the 1850 level. You can get a critical mass of psychic powers and ignores cover weaponry that invalidates every mechanicum list.
Psychic phase and psychic powers are overpowered in the current edition, this is generally accepted as fact. You didn't know this? Also, don't beat yourself up too hard about losing at the LVO, it is literally the highest level of competition in the world. Bring your reactor and servitors for pickup games at your local, not to literally the most premiere cut-throat of tournaments that brings the most competitive players from around the world.
So I had the chance to use some of our new HQ choices a few times.
Belasarius Cawl: Or Billy as me and my friends call him, had been very impressive. The most important thing he brought to table was his Canticles. These gave much more flexibility to the army. Also affecting a Knight to hit on 2s or re-rolls really turned Knight into a machine of destruction.
Offensively he wasn't really doing much since he moves 6" a turn, but he was tanking like it was expected. Putting him in a unit of Destroyers really inceases their survivability. The 2 times he was in melee, he just wouldn't die and slowly chip away the enemy.
Celestine: She was drawing alot of attention while just moving forward and pressuring the opponent; which allowed me to move my vanguards etc forward without getting much shot at. She works great in a unit with Dragoons, she ends up moving 3"less but tanks all the damage for the Dragoons and just destroy anything they get to charge. Even by herself, she managed to tie down a fairly big Tau unit.
She definitely gave more than 200pts worth of utility to the army.
Hey, new Admech/Skitarii player. First of all, loving the army, it's a huge contrast to my orks. However, I've encountered a problem I'm not used to: power.
When listbuilding with orks, it's like trying to make a gallon of orange juice with three oranges. I have to pick and choose so carefully to make sure what I'm bringing won't immediately fall over and die to a stiff breeze. Admech, meanwhile, feels so optimized and open. I've played a total of three games with my admech, and I've won each time in a landslide- twice against Tau, once against an 1850 chaos list where I took 1600 points of admech (all I have) and just piled on upgrades to even up the points.
Basically, how can I power-down my lists? Every unit we have hits hard or just never dies. If I'm going up against a new player, I want to be able to go easy on them. It's not like orks where I can take stormboyz or footslog to dumb-down my list- I literally cannot see any options to make my army worse outside of just not taking some units.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Hey, new Admech/Skitarii player. First of all, loving the army, it's a huge contrast to my orks. However, I've encountered a problem I'm not used to: power.
When listbuilding with orks, it's like trying to make a gallon of orange juice with three oranges. I have to pick and choose so carefully to make sure what I'm bringing won't immediately fall over and die to a stiff breeze. Admech, meanwhile, feels so optimized and open. I've played a total of three games with my admech, and I've won each time in a landslide- twice against Tau, once against an 1850 chaos list where I took 1600 points of admech (all I have) and just piled on upgrades to even up the points.
Basically, how can I power-down my lists? Every unit we have hits hard or just never dies. If I'm going up against a new player, I want to be able to go easy on them. It's not like orks where I can take stormboyz or footslog to dumb-down my list- I literally cannot see any options to make my army worse outside of just not taking some units.
Hi there ! It's kinda funny for me because you're saying you're new to the AdMech and at the same time have 1500 points painted, it makes me feel so slow with my 12 Skitarii models painted
But anyway, I'm kinda surprised AdMech is that powerful. Are you already mixing in Skitarii units ? Because one way to "downgrade" (as if, making it more even of a chance to at least wound your army) would be to switch some Kataphrons for Skitarii Vanguards or Rangers. Both have a nice firepower but Skitarii are flimsy and weak in melee, might give more of a chance to a new player than to try to charge you Cognis flamers and try not to die.
You could encourage them playing the objectives, AdMech is not really fast and so could be outmanoeuvred, even if it requires some skill to do so without getting shot. Did you ever played against Eldar ? I'm curious at what it would be. Can you give an exemple of a list you use too ? Thanks !
Another question guys, what do you think about giving pistol + melee weapon on an Alpha ? I modelled my Warlord to have a Taser Goad and a Phosphor Blast Pistol and so would like to stay WYSIWYG mostly. Can Vanguards be effective in CC, with or without their Doctrines ? In Kill Team only my Dragoon can actually kill stuff in CC, never ever had I a Vanguard even wounding something.
Hi there ! It's kinda funny for me because you're saying you're new to the AdMech and at the same time have 1500 points painted, it makes me feel so slow with my 12 Skitarii models painted
But anyway, I'm kinda surprised AdMech is that powerful. Are you already mixing in Skitarii units ? Because one way to "downgrade" (as if, making it more even of a chance to at least wound your army) would be to switch some Kataphrons for Skitarii Vanguards or Rangers. Both have a nice firepower but Skitarii are flimsy and weak in melee, might give more of a chance to a new player than to try to charge you Cognis flamers and try not to die.
You could encourage them playing the objectives, AdMech is not really fast and so could be outmanoeuvred, even if it requires some skill to do so without getting shot. Did you ever played against Eldar ? I'm curious at what it would be. Can you give an exemple of a list you use too ? Thanks !
Yeah, I got super motivated to paint- all that 1500 points was painted in roughly two months.
Anyway, I am already mixing in units of rangers and vanguard. They haven't really done much other than draw fire away from my more important models, so I guess I can make more of them. I have 15 left to paint, so that'll work. The objective idea could work, too. So far the missions we've rolled for haven't required me to be all that mobile, so maybe that was another issue.
Ah I'm glad you're motivated to paint, I had to paint 10 Skitarii and one Dragoon for an event in one month and it was too much in once, I painted as much as I could but in the end I was in a burnout from painting haha ! Now I'm painting some 30K Night Lords, it's a refreshing change to paint those Space Marines, as opposed to the beautiful but detail-heavy Skitarii.
I'm looking at putting together my combined Ad-Mech finally, but don't fancy running a War Convocation.
Can an effective army be built using formations/ CAD? I'd like a Skitarii CAD at least to include my Peltasts/ Hoplites and maybe a Cybernetica Cohort as I like the Kastelan robots.
I have multiples of all units and some knights as well so have plenty of options available.
Loopstah wrote: I'm looking at putting together my combined Ad-Mech finally, but don't fancy running a War Convocation.
Can an effective army be built using formations/ CAD? I'd like a Skitarii CAD at least to include my Peltasts/ Hoplites and maybe a Cybernetica Cohort as I like the Kastelan robots.
I have multiples of all units and some knights as well so have plenty of options available.
Well skitarii cannot have a CAD as they have no HQ. I am trying to figure out if Peltasts/hoplites can be used in the new fall of cadia detachment, and cannot seem to get a conclusive answer.
Loopstah wrote: I'm looking at putting together my combined Ad-Mech finally, but don't fancy running a War Convocation.
Can an effective army be built using formations/ CAD? I'd like a Skitarii CAD at least to include my Peltasts/ Hoplites and maybe a Cybernetica Cohort as I like the Kastelan robots.
I have multiples of all units and some knights as well so have plenty of options available.
Well skitarii cannot have a CAD as they have no HQ. I am trying to figure out if Peltasts/hoplites can be used in the new fall of cadia detachment, and cannot seem to get a conclusive answer.
Secutarii cannot be taken in any of the Fall of Cadia detachments/formations. Conclave Acquisitorius does not allow the Skitarii Maniple (the only Skitarii detachment they qualify for), and neither the Grand Convocation nor the Castellans of the Imperium list them as an available option. We'll just have to wait until FW gets an FAQ out detailing what of their items benefit from Fall of Cadia (and as far behind as they are on rules updates... keep breathing).
Loopstah wrote: I'm looking at putting together my combined Ad-Mech finally, but don't fancy running a War Convocation.
Can an effective army be built using formations/ CAD? I'd like a Skitarii CAD at least to include my Peltasts/ Hoplites and maybe a Cybernetica Cohort as I like the Kastelan robots.
I have multiples of all units and some knights as well so have plenty of options available.
Well skitarii cannot have a CAD as they have no HQ. I am trying to figure out if Peltasts/hoplites can be used in the new fall of cadia detachment, and cannot seem to get a conclusive answer.
Skitarii can now take a CAD with Bellisarius Cawl. He counts as their HQ and can be used for any combined arms or allied detachment. They could also use Saint Celestine or Inquisitor Greyfax.
Heh, played a 1000 pts list against Eldars today. Wraithlord goes through a ruin to face my Vanguard squad, kills two with his flamers, prepares to charge. As he runs towards them, the Vanguards shoot on Overwatch. Out of 24 shots, three hits. Two 6's to Wound, so 4 Wounds. He fails his saves. The Wraithlord, horribly irradiated, die and fall in front of the Radtroopers.
Wulfey wrote: Just ran my servitor list at LVO ... hard lesson ... leave the haemotrope reactors and servitors at home. They are going on the shelf permanently or being used as the basis for some conversions into librarians or something. I regard them as dead units. At the 1850 ITC competitive level, there is no way that nonsense is viable.
EDIT: Going forwards in ITC ... I will try to play some kind of Cawl based army ... but I am very dubious that lists that don't have herds of daemon princes are viable at the 1850 level. You can get a critical mass of psychic powers and ignores cover weaponry that invalidates every mechanicum list.
Wulfey wrote: Just ran my servitor list at LVO ... hard lesson ... leave the haemotrope reactors and servitors at home. They are going on the shelf permanently or being used as the basis for some conversions into librarians or something. I regard them as dead units. At the 1850 ITC competitive level, there is no way that nonsense is viable.
EDIT: Going forwards in ITC ... I will try to play some kind of Cawl based army ... but I am very dubious that lists that don't have herds of daemon princes are viable at the 1850 level. You can get a critical mass of psychic powers and ignores cover weaponry that invalidates every mechanicum list.
I'm curious what happened here.. lol
I ran 4x2 of them with 8 total plasma cannons sitting next to two reactors for big blasts at 36" range. It sounded like a lot of firepower in theory. But they repeatedly fell asleep on critical shooting turns. They also really slowed down the game and missed all the time. They also gave out 'destroy a unit' maelstrom missions like candy. They can also be counter deployed very easily because they cannot move and shoot. My opponents always had a way to say that their spacing denied a massive amount of hits or that there was some kind of monster cover save going on. In the ITC meta, real barrage artillery is very common and that stuff tends to have 48-60 range, which makes 36" range fragile units that can't move and shoot pretty terrible.
They only really did good on one game, where I seized after being able to place them well within range of my enemies units.
EDIT: that said, if you can find 20 points in your WarCon, adding two individual servitors that you hid out of LOS somewhere can be good in order to pad your canticles count. The best things that the servitors did was stand in the way, draw threat from better units, and pad my canticles.
EDIT2: about the stand in the way thing. They require extremely careful placement or else they will mindlock and block your knight from moving.
EDIT3: about the slow the game down thing, I would have easily won 3 of my games had I had another 2 turns. But hey, game ends on turn 3 against an ob-sec army and it doesn't matter that my opponent has no threats left and all my shooters are alive.
I'm pretty damn new and managed to pick up the Eradication Cohort box set for pretty cheap - Has anyone got any info on if its good, how the formation is, how it plays, points, etc...?
Not much info on it from what I've google'd and not sure how to play it, or if its even half decent!
I'm pretty damn new and managed to pick up the Eradication Cohort box set for pretty cheap - Has anyone got any info on if its good, how the formation is, how it plays, points, etc...?
Not much info on it from what I've google'd and not sure how to play it, or if its even half decent!
Hi, I had the chance to grab that box before they went out of stock too, it's a nice discount in itself so if you got the whole bow cheaper you're that much luckier
As for the formation, here's the rule:
Surgical Precision: If an Eradication Cohort unit inflicts any unsaved Wounds or any glancing or penetrating hits upon an enemy unit, then for the remainder of the phase all other units from this Formation gain the Preferred Enemy special rule when targeting that enemy unit.
I think this might be good only against Deathstars, otherwise you wouldn't use all of these units against a single enemy unit. The Dragoon and the Infiltrators will be far away from the center of the action most of the time, and so would have different targets. But hey, it's still a "free" rule, and nothing prevents you to just use it with two units, like you shot an enemy unit with the Dragoon and the Infiltrators, then charge to finish him off in CC. I personally don't like Electro-Priests at all, so I'd never run this formation, I even intend on selling them. If you want to run this formation seriously, buy more Electro-priests so they don't get shot down in one turn.
Hi. Hopefully you guys can answer a rules interaction question specific to AdMech... if not, I will stick it in You Make Da Call.
- I ran a Cohort Cybernetica
- Switched to the Kastelan Protocol that states you may not move under any circumstances.
- Got hit by a Strength D Blast which killed the central robot, so my unit ended up out of coherency with itself...
My argument was that because I cannot move under any circumstances, I can just stand there being incoherent but acting normally... but if I changed out of that Protocol then I would need to immediately get back into coherency.
Wulfey wrote: Just ran my servitor list at LVO ... hard lesson ... leave the haemotrope reactors and servitors at home. They are going on the shelf permanently or being used as the basis for some conversions into librarians or something. I regard them as dead units. At the 1850 ITC competitive level, there is no way that nonsense is viable.
EDIT: Going forwards in ITC ... I will try to play some kind of Cawl based army ... but I am very dubious that lists that don't have herds of daemon princes are viable at the 1850 level. You can get a critical mass of psychic powers and ignores cover weaponry that invalidates every mechanicum list.
I'm curious what happened here.. lol
I ran 4x2 of them with 8 total plasma cannons sitting next to two reactors for big blasts at 36" range. It sounded like a lot of firepower in theory. But they repeatedly fell asleep on critical shooting turns. They also really slowed down the game and missed all the time. They also gave out 'destroy a unit' maelstrom missions like candy. They can also be counter deployed very easily because they cannot move and shoot. My opponents always had a way to say that their spacing denied a massive amount of hits or that there was some kind of monster cover save going on. In the ITC meta, real barrage artillery is very common and that stuff tends to have 48-60 range, which makes 36" range fragile units that can't move and shoot pretty terrible.
They only really did good on one game, where I seized after being able to place them well within range of my enemies units.
EDIT: that said, if you can find 20 points in your WarCon, adding two individual servitors that you hid out of LOS somewhere can be good in order to pad your canticles count. The best things that the servitors did was stand in the way, draw threat from better units, and pad my canticles.
EDIT2: about the stand in the way thing. They require extremely careful placement or else they will mindlock and block your knight from moving.
EDIT3: about the slow the game down thing, I would have easily won 3 of my games had I had another 2 turns. But hey, game ends on turn 3 against an ob-sec army and it doesn't matter that my opponent has no threats left and all my shooters are alive.
Good to know, I can see the time being an issue when War Convo is already rules heavy. I kind of guessed they would only hinder you for KPs. Looks like I may vest my points elsewhere now. Thanks for the reply.
buddha wrote: So what are Ad Mech players thoughts for fast moving objective grabbers?
I'm struggling with warp spider spam and battle company which can just out position me for objectives especially in maelstrom.
The fastest units I see here may be the Sicarians and the Ironstriders thanks to their +3" in moving, sprinting and charging. However Sicarians are fairly flimsy and costly, but will drown your enemy in attacks as long as it's not a unit full of flamers or scatterbikes (tested and disapproved, 1 survivor out of the 5). Dragoons can be really good, they even have Crusader without the need to be in a Skitarii Maniple and have a natural 5+ cover save, as well as AV11 all around. And they're perfect in CC.
dan2026 wrote: What unit would Cawl be best attached to?
Any thoughts on where he might be the most effective?
Either by himself, with Kataphrons or with a cohort cybernetica. Anything else is kindof a waste of his high toughness
Verviedi wrote: Just bought 10 Peltasts and 10 Hoplites. What exactly makes Peltasts so broken, and how can I run them in a way that makes them friendly?
Hoplites are fine, Peltasts are kindof crazy with their multiple weapon profiles, they make marines and hordes cry depending on the firing type
interesting question now; if he attaches to a unit of sicarians, does he get dune strider as it's a special rule? if so then that could make him a touch faster.
Tiger9gamer wrote: interesting question now; if he attaches to a unit of sicarians, does he get dune strider as it's a special rule? if so then that could make him a touch faster.
I really don't believe that rule can be shared. He might get Scout from the Skitarii Maniple though, that's something.
I think Bunker with Escape Hatch is a mandatory upgrade if you are going to run a CawlConvocation. Cawl can't keep up with any Dunestrider/Scout units at deployment, but if you leap him out of the hatch then he can claim coherency after the first move and charge on the second turn.
Deploy:
Cawl and Vanguard in Bunker
Sicarians on the side scout up
Move 1:
Move Cawl and Vanguard out of Hatch, declare them separate units
Move Sicarians within coherency to Cawl, declare them to be same unit
Cawl is a meat shield (and among the best ones for the record) but really comes into his own in a cohort cybernetica formation though you are investing likely half your points into the unit.
dan2026 wrote: What unit would Cawl be best attached to?
Any thoughts on where he might be the most effective?
I believe the best place for Cawl is the HQ in a Holy Requisitioner Formation. This allows him to deep strike without scatter into your opponents back field and to bring two or three units of Breachers with him. It also insures that he should have a nice juicy target in range for his Solar Atomizer. You need two units of Breachers, have one unit of four and one unit of five, have Cawl join the unit of five and hope your opponent tries to clear them from his backfield!
dan2026 wrote: What unit would Cawl be best attached to?
Any thoughts on where he might be the most effective?
I believe the best place for Cawl is the HQ in a Holy Requisitioner Formation. This allows him to deep strike without scatter into your opponents back field and to bring two or three units of Breachers with him. It also insures that he should have a nice juicy target in range for his Solar Atomizer. You need two units of Breachers, have one unit of four and one unit of five, have Cawl join the unit of five and hope your opponent tries to clear them from his backfield!
I've thought about this. But do you really want Breachers so close to the enemy?
They seem more useful as ranged anti vehicle, than combat.
Indeed they are quite underwhelming in CC, even with the weapon that allows for one attack at S10 AP2, it's still one attack. Maybe give them Cognis with the Memento-Mortispex or the Raiment of the Technomartyr if you want some security, and remember you don't scatter only as long as you stay within 6" of an objective.
On another subject, do you guys have trust issues with your regular Skitarii footmen ? I'm starting to think they are not really effective at all just because of their flimsiness. Okay the two games I played were against a list with loads of Scatterbikes and the other was a 1350 pts game with a Knight, 3 Vindicators and 9 Obliteratii, so there WAS a lot of S6+ flying around. Next time I'm facing this dreadful Grey Knights list full of S6 AP4 flamers and Torrent flamers so I expect another genocide of cyborgs. I feel like even at low points games there's always a few things that will wreck whole units in one turn and it's starting to be irritating. I love the models and their rules, and my Vanguards are quite effective sometimes when they get to shoot, but it's becoming masochism to field them I feel. Same for the Infiltrators, what good is having 2 Wounds when everyone and their dogs hits or shoots at S6 ?
I'm not really fan of Kataphrons but I'm considering switching my main force to Cult Mechanicus with allied Skitarii if this goes on. I like the feeling of safety in numbers the Skitarii provide me but if they all die in one shooting phase without any saves it's just dreadfully sad to me.
Thoughts about this ? Anyone else feels like this ? Is it just bad matchups ?
S6 AP4 flamers sound like a nightmare for Skitarii.
And to be honest you can't go wrong with Grav Destroyers.
I imagine they will chew threw Grey Knights nicely.
Outrange and outshoot them.
I think the problem with regular Skitarii is lack of a transport.
Its alright having metal legs to walk across the battlefield until someone shoots them off.
Its the same problem the Cult Electro Priests have.
Back to talking about Breachers. I don't think I would put Cawi with them and deep strike. It doesn't feel right.
Still not sure exactly where to place him. For all his strength he's an odd one to place.
I'm toying with the idea of starting Cawl with a vanguard unit for the scout move, then split him off on his own a few inches ahead. He's got an MC stat line, he should be able to hold his own and he can always drop back into the vanguards if he soaks too many wounds. Gives Cawl full toughness benefit and forces the opponent to put more thought into their targeting.
Fhionnuisce wrote: I'm toying with the idea of starting Cawl with a vanguard unit for the scout move, then split him off on his own a few inches ahead. He's got an MC stat line, he should be able to hold his own and he can always drop back into the vanguards if he soaks too many wounds. Gives Cawl full toughness benefit and forces the opponent to put more thought into their targeting.
I am pretty sure Independent Characters without 'scout' don't gain 'scout' by being in a unit that has it.
Fhionnuisce wrote: I'm toying with the idea of starting Cawl with a vanguard unit for the scout move, then split him off on his own a few inches ahead. He's got an MC stat line, he should be able to hold his own and he can always drop back into the vanguards if he soaks too many wounds. Gives Cawl full toughness benefit and forces the opponent to put more thought into their targeting.
I am pretty sure Independent Characters without 'scout' don't gain 'scout' by being in a unit that has it.
Scout is worded a unit containing at least one model with this special rule, so unless I missed an errata/FAQ on this the IC should be able to redeploy when the unit had scout.
Fhionnuisce wrote: I'm toying with the idea of starting Cawl with a vanguard unit for the scout move, then split him off on his own a few inches ahead. He's got an MC stat line, he should be able to hold his own and he can always drop back into the vanguards if he soaks too many wounds. Gives Cawl full toughness benefit and forces the opponent to put more thought into their targeting.
I am pretty sure Independent Characters without 'scout' don't gain 'scout' by being in a unit that has it.
Scout is worded a unit containing at least one model with this special rule, so unless I missed an errata/FAQ on this the IC should be able to redeploy when the unit had scout.
I am damn sure it doesn't work with Infiltrate. They had some specific FAQs on that. I will check again for scout.
hey all, am curious from player experience how reliable is a 5~6 dragoon unit running around supported by vanguard and infiltrator behind in a skitarii maniple??
I am planning to use it as a secondary to my Deathwatch Frag Cannons rhino CAD.
fr3ddy wrote: hey all, am curious from player experience how reliable is a 5~6 dragoon unit running around supported by vanguard and infiltrator behind in a skitarii maniple??
I am planning to use it as a secondary to my Deathwatch Frag Cannons rhino CAD.
I require comments and inputs
Personally i love Dragoons in all aspects of the games. They really shine in a war convo for me as they can have a 2+ cover save with shroudpsalm turn 1 (and turn two if needed). They hit like a freight train and if you manage to get the charge while calling the 3+ strength they can take down knights with ease. The key is positioning them for the charge. They have excellent speed. I like minimum of 3 in a unit but typically my war convo has 5. I haven't used them like you plan to but I am certain they will still do well. a 45 point dragoon is a very cheap model. They need to be dealt with so your other units are able to get into position as they take the brunt of the attacks first turns. If you play with mysterious objectives and get a cover save bonus objective that is also a nice bonus for them.
fr3ddy wrote: hey all, am curious from player experience how reliable is a 5~6 dragoon unit running around supported by vanguard and infiltrator behind in a skitarii maniple??
I am planning to use it as a secondary to my Deathwatch Frag Cannons rhino CAD.
I require comments and inputs
You can't go wrong with Dragoons, but I'd run them as two units of 3 just so I could cover more terrain and not be blocked in my manoeuvers by the sheer amount of scenery that could be on the terrain. Infiltrators are nice because they can keep up with them as of their movement range, and the debuff aura can help you even further, just make sure to hide them well while still being near your target, because boy do they die easily.
Guys, in the middle of my depression about Skitarii being too flimsy I remembered that Secutarii Peltasts existed. Just had another look at their datasheets and oh lord they look straight from the Mecha-Heavens ! Here's the datasheet for those who wonder:
Get the unit to 20 men to max out the Kyropatris field generator and have some more firepower, give them a lead by a Techpriest Dominus to tank the AP4 thanks to rerolls of 1's on armour saves, and a Scryerskull if you want to up their Ld to 10. Add the mandatory Omnispex. Remember they're relentless, so that Salvo 2/4 24" S3 Shred gun becomes an Assault 4 24" S3 Shred gun. With the different ammunition types you can do all kind of damage on your enemy, the 30" S4 AP3 Rending gun is really nasty too, making them better than Rangers as of shooting. The 20 small blasts of 18" S3 AP5 that ignores line of sight and cover looks fun to use too.
Okay they're still flimsy but at the same time they're terrifying, and still negates all shots made at them by 1S, at least allowing for the 6+ FNP. And they're not alone on the battlefield either, give the enemy a Cohort Cybernetica or some Grav Destroyers to shoot at and they should live long enough to do significant damage.
I'm really thinking about adding them to my army, as an allied Skitarii Maniple, though. I had no good experience of my Warlord being an Alpha Vanguard, he keeps dying all the time. And for some reason the Secutarii Alphas only have one Wound. With another 10 Vanguards and 5 Rangers to go grab objective (no one ever shoots at them because they look inoffensive, I keep using that to an advantage), 2 or 3 Dunecrawlers, and 1 or 2 Dragoons, that would be a nice allied detachment for my Cohort Cybernetica.
Yeah, the Secutarii are pretty awesome. The Haywire Stick guys are pretty cool as a counter charge element but the Peltasts are definitely the winner to me.
fr3ddy wrote: hey all, am curious from player experience how reliable is a 5~6 dragoon unit running around supported by vanguard and infiltrator behind in a skitarii maniple??
I am planning to use it as a secondary to my Deathwatch Frag Cannons rhino CAD.
I require comments and inputs
I run a very Dragoon heavy army (I have 12 of them and 6 Ironstriders) and I can tell you now you never want to run a single Squad of them at that size. I have had the most success running them in units of two or three to make my opponent have more targets to shoot at as too well help their survivability in close combat, all it takes is a single power fist surviving your charge to annihilate an entire Squad so you are better off running them in separate smaller squads.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Yeah, the Secutarii are pretty awesome. The Haywire Stick guys are pretty cool as a counter charge element but the Peltasts are definitely the winner to me.
They look good but too much short-ranged to me, and I only trust Dragoons and Sicarian for CC duty. We already have a lot of Haywire in both armies I think. The 5++ is nice to heave though !
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Yeah, the Secutarii are pretty awesome. The Haywire Stick guys are pretty cool as a counter charge element but the Peltasts are definitely the winner to me.
They look good but too much short-ranged to me, and I only trust Dragoons and Sicarian for CC duty. We already have a lot of Haywire in both armies I think. The 5++ is nice to heave though !
Hence why I say Counter Charge. Don't invest into them and keep them at minimum, and use them against outflanking units or Deep Strikers.
So I'm still trying to figure out how to run Ruststalkers. Unlike Infiltrators, they don't get infiltrate or stealth, which really helps them get into position and stay alive for a turn two charge. I can give my Ruststalkers scout with the standard Skitarii formation, but they still get shot to hell before they can get anywhere. I'm considering keeping them back near valuable units as a counter-charge unit, but it almost seems like a waste. How do y'all use your Ruststalkers?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Yeah, the Secutarii are pretty awesome. The Haywire Stick guys are pretty cool as a counter charge element but the Peltasts are definitely the winner to me.
They look good but too much short-ranged to me, and I only trust Dragoons and Sicarian for CC duty. We already have a lot of Haywire in both armies I think. The 5++ is nice to heave though !
Hence why I say Counter Charge. Don't invest into them and keep them at minimum, and use them against outflanking units or Deep Strikers.
I'd rather have so much dakka that no one can charge me at all
Vitali Advenil wrote:So I'm still trying to figure out how to run Ruststalkers. Unlike Infiltrators, they don't get infiltrate or stealth, which really helps them get into position and stay alive for a turn two charge. I can give my Ruststalkers scout with the standard Skitarii formation, but they still get shot to hell before they can get anywhere. I'm considering keeping them back near valuable units as a counter-charge unit, but it almost seems like a waste. How do y'all use your Ruststalkers?
Apart from running from cover to cover until you reach an enemy I don't see how to make them survive. Not that I venerate Peltasts or anything but they're able to forgo their shooting phase to give Shroud to a friendly unit in 18" of them, may help a bit. Otherwise, except by taking a big pack of them you'll have the same problems as with regular Skitarii troops, except you move 9" and not 6". I prefer Infiltrators too but admit Ruststalkers are worth a try with their S6 charges.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You don't always get that choice though. Especially when I see CSM coming out to play with their Raptor and Terminators formations.
When you mean counter-charge, what scenario do you think of exactly ? Like, a unit deepstrikes right besides your guys, and so you preventively charge them first ? Or my nice shooty unit just got charged and is getting slaughtered, so I send in the Hoplites ?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You don't always get that choice though. Especially when I see CSM coming out to play with their Raptor and Terminators formations.
When you mean counter-charge, what scenario do you think of exactly ? Like, a unit deepstrikes right besides your guys, and so you preventively charge them first ? Or my nice shooty unit just got charged and is getting slaughtered, so I send in the Hoplites ?
It would be a combination of both. You have different scenarios in which they would do something:
1. Unit arrives from Deep Strike or outflanking and does shooting. Unit will likely have some sorta melee capability, and you charge them before they can charge you. Either that or they have none, and you win the fight.
2. A unit arrives and goes to melee instead. You won't likely be wiped out the first round bar terrible rolling, so you go in to help clean up whatever is left.
I mostly suggest Hoplites because of their numbers and the fact other melee options in the codex want to move forward and obliterate the enemy to get their costs back.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: It would be a combination of both. You have different scenarios in which they would do something:
1. Unit arrives from Deep Strike or outflanking and does shooting. Unit will likely have some sorta melee capability, and you charge them before they can charge you. Either that or they have none, and you win the fight.
2. A unit arrives and goes to melee instead. You won't likely be wiped out the first round bar terrible rolling, so you go in to help clean up whatever is left.
I mostly suggest Hoplites because of their numbers and the fact other melee options in the codex want to move forward and obliterate the enemy to get their costs back.
Yeah you wouldn't want to keep Sicarians at the back just to protect your shooters. Sure, a 10-man squad of Hoplites is cheaper for that role, I agree.
Hey guys I wrote a list around the Secutarii, if anyone of you could check it and would let me know what you think about it I'd be ever grateful, thanks !
Got to admit I hesitate between one or two squads. If I run two squads and lose a single guy (that will happen quite fast) I consequently lose the -1S on incoming shots, which I feel is quite a nice bonus to have. A bigger squad makes a bigger threat too. I'm thinking about placing my Dominus tank in there to make it unstoppable but I like my Vanguards too.
Aaranis wrote: Got to admit I hesitate between one or two squads. If I run two squads and lose a single guy (that will happen quite fast) I consequently lose the -1S on incoming shots, which I feel is quite a nice bonus to have. A bigger squad makes a bigger threat too. I'm thinking about placing my Dominus tank in there to make it unstoppable but I like my Vanguards too.
Put Cawl in the Secutarii unit. At the front.
He tanks all damage and gets to re-roll his 2+ save.
(A Dominus could do this too. But Cawl is tankier)
They stay behind him shooting and never die.
Only downside is the majority unit toughness will be 4 instead of Cawl's 6. Accounting for the -1S.
Aaranis wrote: Got to admit I hesitate between one or two squads. If I run two squads and lose a single guy (that will happen quite fast) I consequently lose the -1S on incoming shots, which I feel is quite a nice bonus to have. A bigger squad makes a bigger threat too. I'm thinking about placing my Dominus tank in there to make it unstoppable but I like my Vanguards too.
Put Cawl in the Secutarii unit. At the front.
He tanks all damage and gets to re-roll his 2+ save.
(A Dominus could do this too. But Cawl is tankier)
They stay behind him shooting and never die.
I wrote another list with 15 Secutarii, I'll place my Dominus with Stasis Field and Raiment of the Technomartyr in it. So he'll have a rerollable 2+, and against AP2 the unit can go to ground and I'll tank all on his 2++. When they get up next turn they still shoot at BS2 thanks to the Raiment. I feel this can do wonders. If I make the Secutarii Alpha the Warlord (yeah a one Wound Warlord, I know) and roll for the Shroud trait they'll all have a 3+ cover save when going to ground too, which can be quite nice to have.
I don't possess Cawl and he's not really close on my list of next purchases, but I'll buy him once I have enough to run 2000+ pts lists. I'm not one too keen on using loads of points on single guys. Well, except the Cohort Cybernetica, but I'm un love with Kastelans
The Raiment gives Cognis to all of your weapons, so all snapshots are made at BS2, which is why I'm giving him this. Sure it's expensive but it nearly doubles my shooting capabilities after standing back up from Going to Ground. Gives me a rad Overwatch too ! And a better Skyfire than nothing, given I won't hurt much with their weapons.
Cawl in a unit of Hoplites would be terrifying I feel. All 12" Haywire weapons, all with a 5++, counts as having defensive grenades and Haywire S4 AP4 melee weapons. Would be nice to synergise with his 12" doperay, and to hide him in a bunker of 5++.
Cawl in a unit of Hoplites would be terrifying I feel. All 12" Haywire weapons, all with a 5++, counts as having defensive grenades and Haywire S4 AP4 melee weapons. Would be nice to synergise with his 12" doperay, and to hide him in a bunker of 5++.
The only problem with Cawl + Hoplites is getting them where they need to be. Ie within 12" of their target.
Cawl in a unit of Hoplites would be terrifying I feel. All 12" Haywire weapons, all with a 5++, counts as having defensive grenades and Haywire S4 AP4 melee weapons. Would be nice to synergise with his 12" doperay, and to hide him in a bunker of 5++.
The only problem with Cawl + Hoplites is getting them where they need to be. Ie within 12" of their target.
It's true, but one advantage they have in the skitarii maniple is that they have crusader and scout so it at least gives them a little extra speed.
That's one of the things that I dislike about Cawl too, his shooting. I get it that he's a support HQ but he seems really expensive for something that might get instant kill (I'm really paranoid of S10 thanks to this dreadful list I faced at 1350 points with a Knight and 3 Vindicators).
EDIT: Oh he's T6 after all, now I like him better.
However I just read a bit about the Inquisitors allies. And damn, there's a lot of quite cheap options in there to ensure you have a durable Warlord when running mono-Skitarii. One of the builds that pleases me is the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with a Power Armour and a Conversion Beamer. For 78 points you have an 3 Wounds HQ that you can just sit in a building in your deployment zone that will throw S10 AP1 Blasts between 48" and 72", so basically all of the terrain. I imagine kitbashing one to wear the weapon like a Gatling Laser from Fallout, and with Mechanicus elements all over him. Really it looks awesome ! Anyone ever tried Inquisitors in AdMech armies ?
Aaranis wrote: That's one of the things that I dislike about Cawl too, his shooting. I get it that he's a support HQ but he seems really expensive for something that might get instant kill (I'm really paranoid of S10 thanks to this dreadful list I faced at 1350 points with a Knight and 3 Vindicators).
EDIT: Oh he's T6 after all, now I like him better.
However I just read a bit about the Inquisitors allies. And damn, there's a lot of quite cheap options in there to ensure you have a durable Warlord when running mono-Skitarii. One of the builds that pleases me is the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with a Power Armour and a Conversion Beamer. For 78 points you have an 3 Wounds HQ that you can just sit in a building in your deployment zone that will throw S10 AP1 Blasts between 48" and 72", so basically all of the terrain. I imagine kitbashing one to wear the weapon like a Gatling Laser from Fallout, and with Mechanicus elements all over him. Really it looks awesome ! Anyone ever tried Inquisitors in AdMech armies ?
25 point inquisitor with 30 point memento mortispex and Cawl as your HQ is how I will run 2017. The 25+30 pointer joins cawl and a unit of gravaphrons for skyfire or monster hunter. Or I can put the inquisitor in a ranger squad and turn that plasma into some real tank hunter firepower.
Also, Cawl is the ideal HQ to put into a hoplite squad. He can use their scout to get up the field and he can tank for them. Cawl's weapon is 12" and so are the hoplites. And Cawls' weapon has a lot of synergy with haywire attacks since melta is better against vehicles than troops/MCs.
Inquistors are pretty much always worth their dime.
The extra warlord trait is quite useful for the admech.
I was also wondering if anyone here has ever tried to play the Sicirian Killglade formation, I have yet to try it but it seems like a ton of fun.
I'm going to play it in combination with a Baronial Court.
The Knights will act as a mobile artillery platform and should draw some attention while the infiltrators and ruststalkers get closer for that sweet turn two charge.
After today's game against Grey Knights I'm definitely taking a psyker Inquisitor in the future. ALWAYS.
The Sicarian Killclade looks fun but also a huuuge point sink, think about it, you'll be paying 680 points stock for 20 T3 guys. They don't even have Move Through Cover so if your enemy is in a building you're likely to get beaten to death first by Overwatch fire and then by the CC of your target. I don't think it's worth it, maybe yes, to try once, but personally I'd never play that much Sicarians. I think even Infiltrators are not worth their cost.
While this was before Mechanicus had a codex, I used to run a hired HQ unit in the form of an Inquisitor with PA & Psyker 1, rolled on Divination for Prescience, joined to a unit of 5 sanctioned psykers in a stock/occaisionally LasPlas razorback
unit gives several WC, and access to extra firepower & a TL S8AP2 Pie at 24" if memory servces and it hasnt been changed since
costs less than 200 points too if I can actually remember numbers
Aaranis wrote: That's one of the things that I dislike about Cawl too, his shooting. I get it that he's a support HQ but he seems really expensive for something that might get instant kill (I'm really paranoid of S10 thanks to this dreadful list I faced at 1350 points with a Knight and 3 Vindicators).
EDIT: Oh he's T6 after all, now I like him better.
However I just read a bit about the Inquisitors allies. And damn, there's a lot of quite cheap options in there to ensure you have a durable Warlord when running mono-Skitarii. One of the builds that pleases me is the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with a Power Armour and a Conversion Beamer. For 78 points you have an 3 Wounds HQ that you can just sit in a building in your deployment zone that will throw S10 AP1 Blasts between 48" and 72", so basically all of the terrain. I imagine kitbashing one to wear the weapon like a Gatling Laser from Fallout, and with Mechanicus elements all over him. Really it looks awesome ! Anyone ever tried Inquisitors in AdMech armies ?
25 point inquisitor with 30 point memento mortispex and Cawl as your HQ is how I will run 2017. The 25+30 pointer joins cawl and a unit of gravaphrons for skyfire or monster hunter. Or I can put the inquisitor in a ranger squad and turn that plasma into some real tank hunter firepower.
Also, Cawl is the ideal HQ to put into a hoplite squad. He can use their scout to get up the field and he can tank for them. Cawl's weapon is 12" and so are the hoplites. And Cawls' weapon has a lot of synergy with haywire attacks since melta is better against vehicles than troops/MCs.
Its a catch 22, as Cawl's toughness is being wasted in a majority toughness 3 squad, he'll be wounded a lot easier than he should be.
Unfortunate the Secutarii cant be put into a war convocation
Aaranis wrote: That's one of the things that I dislike about Cawl too, his shooting. I get it that he's a support HQ but he seems really expensive for something that might get instant kill (I'm really paranoid of S10 thanks to this dreadful list I faced at 1350 points with a Knight and 3 Vindicators).
EDIT: Oh he's T6 after all, now I like him better.
However I just read a bit about the Inquisitors allies. And damn, there's a lot of quite cheap options in there to ensure you have a durable Warlord when running mono-Skitarii. One of the builds that pleases me is the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with a Power Armour and a Conversion Beamer. For 78 points you have an 3 Wounds HQ that you can just sit in a building in your deployment zone that will throw S10 AP1 Blasts between 48" and 72", so basically all of the terrain. I imagine kitbashing one to wear the weapon like a Gatling Laser from Fallout, and with Mechanicus elements all over him. Really it looks awesome ! Anyone ever tried Inquisitors in AdMech armies ?
25 point inquisitor with 30 point memento mortispex and Cawl as your HQ is how I will run 2017. The 25+30 pointer joins cawl and a unit of gravaphrons for skyfire or monster hunter. Or I can put the inquisitor in a ranger squad and turn that plasma into some real tank hunter firepower.
Also, Cawl is the ideal HQ to put into a hoplite squad. He can use their scout to get up the field and he can tank for them. Cawl's weapon is 12" and so are the hoplites. And Cawls' weapon has a lot of synergy with haywire attacks since melta is better against vehicles than troops/MCs.
Its a catch 22, as Cawl's toughness is being wasted in a majority toughness 3 squad, he'll be wounded a lot easier than he should be.
Unfortunate the Secutarii cant be put into a war convocation
That's true. At least just using a regular Techpriest makes the pill easier to swallows as he'll only be 1 Toughness more than the rest of the squad.
I had the proof today once more that a simple Techpriest can tank like a champ with his 2+ and 5++, and FNP. I maintain that giving him a stasis field and placing him with the Raiment of the Technomartyr in a Secutarii unit (preferably Peltasts) would do wonders.
A tech-priest is quite a decent choice for 40pts, my only problem with them is that they only have 1W.
A Dominus is a lot better with its multiple wounds and a slightly higher toughness, while being reasonably priced at 105pts.
Inquisitor Coteaz is also a very good option at 100pts and while he has a lower toughness he is also a level 2 psyker.
Another option would be just an Inquisitor with terminator armour, being only 75pts.
Back to Killglade, the Ruststalkers grenades allows them to charge through cover without suffering an initiative penalty.
Sure the overwatch might still hurt, but the formation seems to be a ton of fun in combination with an Imperial Knight formation, as the Sicirians are fast enough to keep up with the Knights and the Knights scary enough to draw most firepower.
Also, I play a ton with my Infiltrators and personally I think they truly justify their costs everytime. But I might just have more luck with them. The Tasergoad loadout especially works like a charm for me, but I guess that this might just depend on your local meta.
Arlen wrote: A tech-priest is quite a decent choice for 40pts, my only problem with them is that they only have 1W.
A Dominus is a lot better with its multiple wounds and a slightly higher toughness, while being reasonably priced at 105pts.
Inquisitor Coteaz is also a very good option at 100pts and while he has a lower toughness he is also a level 2 psyker.
Another option would be just an Inquisitor with terminator armour, being only 75pts.
Back to Killglade, the Ruststalkers grenades allows them to charge through cover without suffering an initiative penalty.
Sure the overwatch might still hurt, but the formation seems to be a ton of fun in combination with an Imperial Knight formation, as the Sicirians are fast enough to keep up with the Knights and the Knights scary enough to draw most firepower.
Also, I play a ton with my Infiltrators and personally I think they truly justify their costs everytime. But I might just have more luck with them. The Tasergoad loadout especially works like a charm for me, but I guess that this might just depend on your local meta.
Oh yes I was talking about the Dominus all along, I even forgot the Enginseer I once hit five 6's with the Macrostubber on Overwatch with him and killed two Necron Warriors. Even in CC he can really hold his own if not facing dedicated CC units or characters. It's rather sad that the only way to field two of them in Battleforged are running formations. I'd love to have a second one to accompany a Cohort Cybernetica, to go with a 10-man Vanguard squad.
Yes I thought about an Inquisitor, but I'm not seduced fluff-wise about having an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in my army. At least the Ordo Xenos one may be converted to an Ordo Machinum one. The loadout I thought about for my Inquisitor wouls be an Ordo Xeno one, with power armour, conversion beamer, and the Liber Heresius. Make him a lvl 1 Psyker with Prescience. That's 123 points. He'd go in my 5-man two Arquebii squad on a building to give hell to whatever I'm aiming at. Combined with the Scryerskull Perspicatus, I could reroll ones to hit with prescience if I'm not already using the Doctrinas, use Split-fire once in the game to cover more firing ground, and thanks to the Scryerskull Perspicatus I'll reroll any failed penetration hits, and reroll glancing hits to obtain penetrating hits instead. I feel this is a suitable force to deal with anything from 60". If I roll the Orbital Barrage trait that's one more tool of destruction at my disposal.
I am pleased by this idea.
There's the old cheesy combo where you put an Inquisitor with Rad-grenades in a squad of Vanguard and charge with them, causing you to ID Marines on 2+ in CC with your Alpha's Taser Goad. Bit borderline tactic I feel, but honestly if you want to teach manners to a TFG in your LGS this can't go wrong.
Yes I thought about an Inquisitor, but I'm not seduced fluff-wise about having an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in my army. At least the Ordo Xenos one may be converted to an Ordo Machinum one. The loadout I thought about for my Inquisitor wouls be an Ordo Xeno one, with power armour, conversion beamer, and the Liber Heresius. Make him a lvl 1 Psyker with Prescience. That's 123 points. He'd go in my 5-man two Arquebii squad on a building to give hell to whatever I'm aiming at. Combined with the Scryerskull Perspicatus, I could reroll ones to hit with prescience if I'm not already using the Doctrinas, use Split-fire once in the game to cover more firing ground, and thanks to the Scryerskull Perspicatus I'll reroll any failed penetration hits, and reroll glancing hits to obtain penetrating hits instead. I feel this is a suitable force to deal with anything from 60". If I roll the Orbital Barrage trait that's one more tool of destruction at my disposal.
I am pleased by this idea.
There's the old cheesy combo where you put an Inquisitor with Rad-grenades in a squad of Vanguard and charge with them, causing you to ID Marines on 2+ in CC with your Alpha's Taser Goad. Bit borderline tactic I feel, but honestly if you want to teach manners to a TFG in your LGS this can't go wrong.
Oribital Barrage is a lot of fun, but I personally rather roll on the Strategic warlord trait table. Being able to mess with the enemies reserves or gaining army wide stealth in ruins is quite worth it.
Most of the time I try to invest as little as possible in the Inquisitors personal wargear, because for the points you pay for an Inquisitor with conversion beamer I rather take a Dunecrawler with Neutron laser.
I won't lie, having a geared out Inquisitor like yours is pretty sweet. But multiple cheap Inquisitors for even more warlord traits, are also a ton of fun.
Vanguard with an Inquisitor with Rad grenades are a fun option, but my Vanguard get ever so rarely into close combat these days that it is not that worth it. If only we had an assault transport for them .
Oribital Barrage is a lot of fun, but I personally rather roll on the Strategic warlord trait table. Being able to mess with the enemies reserves or gaining army wide stealth in ruins is quite worth it.
Most of the time I try to invest as little as possible in the Inquisitors personal wargear, because for the points you pay for an Inquisitor with conversion beamer I rather take a Dunecrawler with Neutron laser.
I won't lie, having a geared out Inquisitor like yours is pretty sweet. But multiple cheap Inquisitors for even more warlord traits, are also a ton of fun.
Vanguard with an Inquisitor with Rad grenades are a fun option, but my Vanguard get ever so rarely into close combat these days that it is not that worth it. If only we had an assault transport for them .
Someday we'll have transports, I want to believe. Yes indeed I think I'll drop any CC-focused unit from my lists, even thinking about running Dragoons with the Radium Jezzail :/
I'll already have 3 Dunecrawlers with Neutron Lasers
I would not drop the dragoons Taser Lance, the fact that they are a cheap and dangerous melee unit makes most people spent way to much effort on killing them, to avoid having to face them in CC. Best thing about them is that S4 weapons are not good enough to hurt them, forcing your opponent to fire stuff at them they would also need against our Dunecrawlers to take them down. I don't know which armies you face most of the time, but against stuff like SM, deamons, Eldar and Dark Eldar they are pretty damn good. Against Necrons and Tau not so much, since even their most basic gun can put a lot of hurt on the Dragoons.
So my group is trying to get back into 40K and I am building up a Mix Skitarii/AdMech list. However it had been a long time since I have played (other than kill team), So I do not know all the Detachment/formation rules.
Can you add an independent character to a formation.
Can you do this before deployment or have to wait until after?
Do units in formations count for detachment required units?
Nicorex wrote: So my group is trying to get back into 40K and I am building up a Mix Skitarii/AdMech list. However it had been a long time since I have played (other than kill team), So I do not know all the Detachment/formation rules.
Can you add an independent character to a formation.
Can you do this before deployment or have to wait until after?
Do units in formations count for detachment required units?
Not really a tactics post but maybe I can help you out:
-Can you add an independent character to a formation.
You can only TAKE what is part of that formation, if the formation says you can take an IC then you can take it.
You CAN attach an IC from the formation or any other detachment to a unit or other ICs from any formation/detachment. [Granted they are allowed to do so according to allies and the like.]
-Can you do this before deployment or have to wait until after?
You can do this during deployment.
-Do units in formations count for detachment required units?
Units in formations only count towards what you need to take in the formation itself, only time formations count for requirements are in other formations that take multiple formations. In the case for AdMech that would be like a War Convocation.
I would peruse the lists section to see how people are putting them together, that may help.
I was looking there but it did not really answer my questions. But you did help.
Clarification though.
What I want to do is Have a "Holy Requisitioner" formation but Cawl, can al also add a standard Tech priest to that formation before deployment so that they can all deep strike together?
Nicorex wrote: I was looking there but it did not really answer my questions. But you did help.
Clarification though.
What I want to do is Have a "Holy Requisitioner" formation but Cawl, can al also add a standard Tech priest to that formation before deployment so that they can all deep strike together?
Belisarius Cawl can replace a Techpriest Dominus in ANY formation, so yes you can use him in an Holy Requisitioner formation, it fits him really well too, he can get in range to use his gun thanks to that.
Yes I know that.. What i want to know is if I can take another Tech priest along with Cawl in the "Holy Requisitioner" formation before they deep strike.
Nicorex wrote: Yes I know that.. What i want to know is if I can take another Tech priest along with Cawl in the "Holy Requisitioner" formation before they deep strike.
No, there's not a single Cult Mechanicus formation (except Fall of Cadia maybe) that allows for more than 2 Techpriests in the same formation.
Coming back to the psyker problem, would a Culexus be better than an Inquisitor ? They look incredible !
Verviedi wrote: Just bought 10 Peltasts and 10 Hoplites. What exactly makes Peltasts so broken, and how can I run them in a way that makes them friendly?
They are not broken at all with their newly increased cost.
Although technically there are no 40K rules for them now that they've been published.
Verviedi wrote: Just bought 10 Peltasts and 10 Hoplites. What exactly makes Peltasts so broken, and how can I run them in a way that makes them friendly?
They are not broken at all with their newly increased cost.
Although technically there are no 40K rules for them now that they've been published.
What do you mean? Because the rules published by Forgeworld are clearly intended to be used in combination with the Skitarii Codex, which is a 40k army.
Going back to the question, Peltast are not broken. Just tremendously good at what they do, shooting at infantry of any kind.
The best way to run them friendly is just staying with a squad of 10 with no extra's and no IC with a 2+ re-rollable armour save in the unit to tank enemy fire.
They die almost as quickly as normal Skitarii so pretty much all tactics that would kill your Vanguards and Rangers would work on them.
If you mean the preliminary test rules on their website, those are superseded the moment the rules are actually in print (which they are in Inferno). The finalized Secutarii rules for use in 40K armies won't appear until the next Imperial Armour book.
Technically there are no 40K rules for them, and I'd be uncomfortable using the preliminary and now defunct rules.
I would say that if the rules in Inferno don't specify that they apply to 40k, then the experimental rules still are in force until new "40k" rules appear somewhere...
. The second game was against Necrons (bizarrely in a 
if/when 
We need transports.
I want to see that. Skitarii transport a skimmer that would be awesome.
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