Can someone give me a a quick reason to use Rangers over vanguard before I buy my next box set? I kinda want to hear if anyone has any good experiences with the rangers.
I run just one small squad of rangers, I have it set up so I can run a squad of 5 bare bones or a squad of 5 with 2 arquebuses. They are good ruin/objective campers. They aren't the shock troops that Vanguard are. Vanguard should be moving up the field or taking any kind of transport they can get their hands on to help them reach the target.
I use rangers for backfield objective holders as well. Generally I have a 5 man with omnispex and 2 arquebuses that are on transport popping duty, I always try to set them up so that they have a good view of all major lanes of movement, it makes the other person hide their metal boxes which gives me abit of breathing room to move my own guys up.
Of course it works better the more fragile transport options but it's still something divide attention away from other troops.
Tiger9gamer wrote: Can someone give me a a quick reason to use Rangers over vanguard before I buy my next box set? I kinda want to hear if anyone has any good experiences with the rangers.
I run three squads of Rangers.
One squad with 3x Arc Rifles, two with 3x Arquebus.
They massacre anything that comes their way with an armor value. The first time I ran a squad of triple Arquebus, they popped a Land Raider and forced a KDK Terminator Lord to walk his way across the board.
I have been looking into actually using a 10-man squad of Corpuscarii, and surprisingly, I do not think 20 twin-linked S4 pseudo-Tesla shots at 12" is sub-par. I will test this in games, but the hypothetical is looking good.
Some issues I can see involve making the things survive shooting until the turn where they get within 12" of something, so infiltrating or outflanking them using MoA or just keeping to hard cover should help.
The statline of the Electro-Priests checks out with AdMech as presented. The absurd ppm cost is what kills them. They need serious assistance to fulfill their role, at which point other Imperial CC units are more effective/efficient.
Verviedi wrote: I have Sicarians and Dragoons for CC. The Corpuscarii are for anti-horde. I can't fit enough Vanguard for effective anti-horde in a Convocation.
Ahhh, Convocation. Unit of Kataphron Destroyers with Plasma Culverins? Double the range on Corpuscarii, don't get hot because Convocation, double to knock down TEQ/MEQ, low BS counteracted by the nature of blasts. Or utilize Eradication Beamer Onagers within the Battle Maniple? Heck, you could even slot in a secondary Skitarii Maniple if needed for the low low cost of two units of Vanguard (which are anti-horde anyway).
Small blasts with BS3, without ignores cover? I honestly don't think Plasma Culverins are a good idea in any situation, except for perhaps a bunched-up TEQ list.
I like the idea of taking a Skitarii Maniple in addition to the Convocation. It definitely seems more effective than the Corpuscarii.
Verviedi wrote: Small blasts with BS3, without ignores cover? I honestly don't think Plasma Culverins are a good idea in any situation, except for perhaps a bunched-up TEQ list.
I like the idea of taking a Skitarii Maniple in addition to the Convocation. It definitely seems more effective than the Corpuscarii.
Blasts have a built-in 1/3 chance to hit regardless of BS. And the Corpuscarii don't ignore cover either, so I don't see the issue given as that's the comparison point. I'm not saying they're good anti-horde. I'm saying they're better than Corpuscarii at it. Six small blasts is six small blasts. Against a horde, they will do damage.
Tiger9gamer wrote: Can someone give me a a quick reason to use Rangers over vanguard before I buy my next box set? I kinda want to hear if anyone has any good experiences with the rangers.
I run three squads of Rangers.
One squad with 3x Arc Rifles, two with 3x Arquebus.
They massacre anything that comes their way with an armor value. The first time I ran a squad of triple Arquebus, they popped a Land Raider and forced a KDK Terminator Lord to walk his way across the board.
Doesn't that get expensive point wise? And are three squads just enough? (I usually try to go for 4 or five when list building.)
Tiger9gamer wrote: Can someone give me a a quick reason to use Rangers over vanguard before I buy my next box set? I kinda want to hear if anyone has any good experiences with the rangers.
I run three squads of Rangers.
One squad with 3x Arc Rifles, two with 3x Arquebus.
They massacre anything that comes their way with an armor value. The first time I ran a squad of triple Arquebus, they popped a Land Raider and forced a KDK Terminator Lord to walk his way across the board.
Doesn't that get expensive point wise? And are three squads just enough? (I usually try to go for 4 or five when list building.)
You asked for good experiences with Rangers, not my whole list!
In any regards, yeah it gets expensive--but it is highly effective in locking down large sections of the board against people who have seen what those units can do. Since my single squad popped that Land Raider, the other player made a point of locking down/killing any Rangers with Arquebus he saw as fast as possible.
Tiger9gamer wrote: Can someone give me a a quick reason to use Rangers over vanguard before I buy my next box set? I kinda want to hear if anyone has any good experiences with the rangers.
I run three squads of Rangers.
One squad with 3x Arc Rifles, two with 3x Arquebus.
They massacre anything that comes their way with an armor value. The first time I ran a squad of triple Arquebus, they popped a Land Raider and forced a KDK Terminator Lord to walk his way across the board.
Doesn't that get expensive point wise? And are three squads just enough? (I usually try to go for 4 or five when list building.)
You asked for good experiences with Rangers, not my whole list!
In any regards, yeah it gets expensive--but it is highly effective in locking down large sections of the board against people who have seen what those units can do. Since my single squad popped that Land Raider, the other player made a point of locking down/killing any Rangers with Arquebus he saw as fast as possible.
Good point and thats good to know. Do you give them omni-spexes too?
Tiger9gamer wrote: Can someone give me a a quick reason to use Rangers over vanguard before I buy my next box set? I kinda want to hear if anyone has any good experiences with the rangers.
I run three squads of Rangers.
One squad with 3x Arc Rifles, two with 3x Arquebus.
They massacre anything that comes their way with an armor value. The first time I ran a squad of triple Arquebus, they popped a Land Raider and forced a KDK Terminator Lord to walk his way across the board.
Doesn't that get expensive point wise? And are three squads just enough? (I usually try to go for 4 or five when list building.)
You asked for good experiences with Rangers, not my whole list!
In any regards, yeah it gets expensive--but it is highly effective in locking down large sections of the board against people who have seen what those units can do. Since my single squad popped that Land Raider, the other player made a point of locking down/killing any Rangers with Arquebus he saw as fast as possible.
Good point and thats good to know. Do you give them omni-spexes too?
Naturally!
Personally, I find the Enhanced Data-Tether to be absolutely useless. It's a joke piece of equipment--a single point of Leadership while affected by a Doctrina Imperative for a single unit.
The Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, which comes standard on ALL Skitarii walkers, effectively takes the place of that with no real issues.
And to boot? BSDT has a 6" bubble--meaning you can grant it to all of your Skitarii infantry units with clever placement.
Tiger9gamer wrote: Can someone give me a a quick reason to use Rangers over vanguard before I buy my next box set? I kinda want to hear if anyone has any good experiences with the rangers.
I run three squads of Rangers.
One squad with 3x Arc Rifles, two with 3x Arquebus.
They massacre anything that comes their way with an armor value. The first time I ran a squad of triple Arquebus, they popped a Land Raider and forced a KDK Terminator Lord to walk his way across the board.
Doesn't that get expensive point wise? And are three squads just enough? (I usually try to go for 4 or five when list building.)
You asked for good experiences with Rangers, not my whole list!
In any regards, yeah it gets expensive--but it is highly effective in locking down large sections of the board against people who have seen what those units can do. Since my single squad popped that Land Raider, the other player made a point of locking down/killing any Rangers with Arquebus he saw as fast as possible.
Good point and thats good to know. Do you give them omni-spexes too?
Naturally!
Personally, I find the Enhanced Data-Tether to be absolutely useless. It's a joke piece of equipment--a single point of Leadership while affected by a Doctrina Imperative for a single unit.
The Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, which comes standard on ALL Skitarii walkers, effectively takes the place of that with no real issues.
And to boot? BSDT has a 6" bubble--meaning you can grant it to all of your Skitarii infantry units with clever placement.
Thats right I always forget it has that on all walkers. So for five more points you mess with cover saves instead. I like that quite a bit.
Compared to the Vanguard, are rangers worth the price? If I wanted to play the rangers more aggressively that is.
I personally see omnispexes as mandatory, -1cover at a unlimited range 10pts and you dont give up a shooting attack? Sign me up.
Maybe it's because they've come though in clutches for me, but they synergize so well with the luminagen debuff that my kastelan's hand out like candy that I just don't see a point in not taking them.
Thats right I always forget it has that on all walkers. So for five more points you mess with cover saves instead. I like that quite a bit.
Compared to the Vanguard, are rangers worth the price? If I wanted to play the rangers more aggressively that is.
That's going to depend entirely upon what the rest of your list is.
Personally, my Rangers play aggressively...to a point. They're there to pick off the enemy shooting units so that the Vanguard can close in and light everyone else up.
Kan, what ratio of Vanguard to Rangers do you run now? It's been a while since I've seen any lists you've made.
I believe in a 2:1 ratio of Vanguards to Rangers.
In addition, why put Arc Rifles on Rangers rather than Vanguard? Vanguard would be much better to put the AR on, as they are 2 PPM less, and Rangers really provide no benefits to the AR. With Vanguard you'll want to be near 12" anyway, so I have found that they work much better with Arc.
Verviedi wrote: Kan, what ratio of Vanguard to Rangers do you run now? It's been a while since I've seen any lists you've made.
That's because I haven't been playing too much 40k lately. Last 40k game I played was a few weeks ago using the brother's Orks against a Guard player, so...
Been enjoying getting back to playing Fantasy.
I believe in a 2:1 ratio of Vanguards to Rangers.
The plan, when everything is built, to have a 1:1 ratio of Vanguards to Rangers.
In addition, why put Arc Rifles on Rangers rather than Vanguard? Vanguard would be much better to put the AR on, as they are 2 PPM less, and Rangers really provide no benefits to the AR.
Other than Move Through Cover...?
Seriously. MTC on a Ranger Squad with Arc Rifles, while it might seem a bit wasteful at first glance, is fantastic on a board with lots of cover and/or Dangerous Terrain.
Especially when you field a Ranger Alpha with Arc Pistol and Arc Maul.
Fire up the Arc Rifles, strip some HPs--charge with the AP/AM and finish the target off.
With Vanguard you'll want to be near 12" anyway, so I have found that they work much better with Arc.
18 inches works just fine for my two Vanguard Squads with Plasma Calivers.
So I ran the Holy Requisitioner formation today, the one where you deep strike the breachers and the Dominus, Dominus doesn't scatter if within 6'' of an objective and the breachers don't scatter if within 6 of him. Dropped them down near an Imperial knight in two arcs of fire, haywired it to death. They went on to kill Land Raider as well before dying. The dominus killed a few marines with his Eradication beamer and macrostubber. I would say they made their points back. If you don't have the ability to run the War Convocation, look into this formation. Worked out great for me.
I think that part of the point with Electro-Priests is that they are a cheap, by Mechanicus standards, way of getting your Canticles level up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I believe that as intended they are supposed to follow the Breachers, who will be providing a distraction unit (i.e., breaching) as the EPs get in range.
So are there any good tactics for fighting the tau? I'm stumped with some way of finding a good counter for them, because they outrange us and have a lot of strong shooting against our normally infantry units. And they are also really fast compared to the mechanicus's relative slowness
Have you tried straight up out shooting the tau? If you are playing war convocation position your dragoons in front of the knight then the dragoons can get2+ cover with shroudplasm and the knight can too. Or if they have alit of broadsides give the dunecrawlers cover and watch them poof from bs7 small blast str 10 shots. Our rangers pierce their armor, while they can't pierce ranger armor with pulse rifles. And since its str 5 you even keep the fnp. If their fusion suits are deep striking behind your knight/ crawlers, I like to stick coteaz with vanguard with plasma. No overheat, and coteaz also makes a nice no drop pod bubble for the inevitable marine match up. Getting alphad really hurts us like dark eldar. Honestly haven't lost to tau yet. Shroudplasm on our grav destroyers and take out markerligjt support.
Orock wrote: Have you tried straight up out shooting the tau? If you are playing war convocation position your dragoons in front of the knight then the dragoons can get2+ cover with shroudplasm and the knight can too. Or if they have alit of broadsides give the dunecrawlers cover and watch them poof from bs7 small blast str 10 shots. Our rangers pierce their armor, while they can't pierce ranger armor with pulse rifles. And since its str 5 you even keep the fnp. If their fusion suits are deep striking behind your knight/ crawlers, I like to stick coteaz with vanguard with plasma. No overheat, and coteaz also makes a nice no drop pod bubble for the inevitable marine match up. Getting alphad really hurts us like dark eldar. Honestly haven't lost to tau yet. Shroudplasm on our grav destroyers and take out markerligjt support.
Okay, that does sound like a reasonable way to beat them. Thank you!
Grav for the riptides, drop pods if you really want to ruin them. Honestly just tons of vanguard wreck them. Scout up and get in range. But drop pod vanguard and two units of grav destroyers works for me. Arc breachers are good for fish and sky spam.
Tiger9gamer wrote: So are there any good tactics for fighting the tau? I'm stumped with some way of finding a good counter for them, because they outrange us and have a lot of strong shooting against our normally infantry units. And they are also really fast compared to the mechanicus's relative slowness
Anti-Fire Warrior is one of the few uses for Rangers, and the sheer amount of Haywire we can take really ruins tanks' days.
As the previous poster said, grav for Riptides and Vanguard.
Tiger9gamer wrote: So are there any good tactics for fighting the tau? I'm stumped with some way of finding a good counter for them, because they outrange us and have a lot of strong shooting against our normally infantry units. And they are also really fast compared to the mechanicus's relative slowness
Anti-Fire Warrior is one of the few uses for Rangers, and the sheer amount of Haywire we can take really ruins tanks' days.
As the previous poster said, grav for Riptides and Vanguard.
Yes, but they really outrange and out maneuver us. I played a 2v2 game with myself and another mechanicus player versus orks and tau. The orks died horribly to the combined might of the mechanicus but the Tau were able to just stay in the back and jetpack out of range even if we get close enough. It was super annoying and there was really no way to counter that as we couldn't get across the board fast enough.
The problem is our units good at dealing with suits, the dragoons, die to fire warrior spam still. I have found when I play tau outflank warlord trait from the main book is king. If you come on the sides with 3 squads of vanguard, and maybe outflank infiltrators and rust stalkers, you can now down quite a bit. Other than that for hidden suits, your in a tough spot. I would say advance as much as you can up the board behind los blocking terrain.
Erm, Dragoons are most effective against vehicles, the lack of AP makes them better at glancing/penning out stuff with a AV due to being str 8 on the charge.
Suits are plasma vanguard or grav destroyers
Tau really dont outrange admech, either, its pretty even
They have the speed to catch even hideing. And str 8 doubles them out. You get a lot of hits with 6s adding two. And shroudplasm can grant 2+ cover from overwatch.
Orock wrote: They have the speed to catch even hideing. And str 8 doubles them out. You get a lot of hits with 6s adding two. And shroudplasm can grant 2+ cover from overwatch.
Any Tau army worth its salt carries enough markerlights and SMS to make cover saves a non-issue.
Orock wrote: They have the speed to catch even hideing. And str 8 doubles them out. You get a lot of hits with 6s adding two. And shroudplasm can grant 2+ cover from overwatch.
Yea but they have no AP, they're better vehicle hunters
I'm contemplating what to add to my 1500pt war convocation to round it up to 1800 pts for a local comp with maelstrom missions and all LOW allowed.
I have a good source of haywire and Grav.
My option one is to add sevrin loth 5 scouts with snipers and another dragoon, my option 2 is to add a culexus assasin and 3 more dragoons ( rounding up to 5 in total)
Loth would give me the ability to grant invisibility on my warden ( knight ) or dragoon sqaud to ensure that I can keep it alive long enough to tie down a super heavy and to give me good odds of defeating it.
The 5 dragoons sqaud give me more board coverage and threat level- especially if ad mech get turn 1 and go for stealth and shrouded.
I'm planning on running Iron Hands with my war convocation, 2 squads of scouts, 2 (maybe 3 in the future) drop pods, and some marine HQ I haven't decided on yet. Maybe a Librarian? Also been considering a Jump Pack Chaplain to run with my Rust Stalkers so I can just give them a different relic or perhaps running him with the Infiltrators and not infiltrating with them.
I know it's not as efficient as running the flesh tearers detachment but I'm trying to be as fluffy as possible so I don't get too many raised eyebrows at my LGS. Still just undecided about my HQ choice.
I like coteaz for extra deny dice, as well as anti deep strike bubble. And a culexus assassin to strip annoying buffs, keep flyrants on my side of the table neutered, and deep striking psychic shenanigans to a minimum. Coteaz also ensures he can get a few more shots if necessary.
Unfortunately Coteaz does not satisfy the 1HQ requirement for taking some Space Marines. If I could just have him cover the requirement I probably would take him.
I tried a librarian last night, I don't know if it was my dice but it didn't really work out. Perils on first attempt at Divination, took a wound and lost that power. Didn't roll any other worthwhile powers, died on turn 3.
I might try him again, I just wish ML2 wasn't so expensive. 90 points for that guy seems like a lot.
I have the same problem with the tech priest dominus, I just have no clue what to even do with the guy on the battlefield. Do I have him tank wounds with his 2+ for Kataphrons?
I haven't been able to run the War Convocation yet as I just recently acquired my Dragoon and Rust Stalkers, no Knight yet. I'm just at kind of a loss at what to do with my HQ choices. If I didn't have to take a Marine HQ or a Dominus I wouldn't, none of them seems worthwhile when I could be taking more units.
A fun thing you can do with the dominus is give him the 2+ invun shield and stick him in the front or back. Then for a turn you can GtG, get 2 + on your saves, then use the fearless canticle next turn to ignore GtG. Most times though I like to use him to make enemy vehicles weaker with targeting, or if I get the awesome warlord trait that lets you identify objectives, make yours stuff like skyfire, and the enemies booby traps.
Automatically Appended Next Post: also he can follow the knight and repair if in convocation, since he counts then as mechanicus. or stick between dunecrawlers for repairs too.
So guys, I ran the war convocation twice recently, once on Friday for the first time, and again on Saturday. Friday I lost, was still figuring out how the formation works, what a lot of things do, what to do with the Knight, etc. There were a few things that were new for me like army-wide Canticles, relics, and other rules to remember (like fear when in close combat with superheavies).
Some things I learned about War Convocation-
-Ignores cover is the bane of this army.
-We tend to be better against marine and other 3+ save armies as opposed to armies like Guard.
-Never take the War Convocation against a Sisters player, you will feel like a jerk.
-Putting Skitarii in Drop Pods is the way to go.
-The Stasis field on the Dominus is secretly broken. He will often be targeted by stuff that would normally instagib him, going to ground isn't that big of a deal as opposed to dying.
-A small squadron of 2 dragoons will allow at least 1 to get across no-mans land and charge the enemy. 1 is all you need to pop a transport vehicle per turn with the help of 6's to hit.
-Having the Dominus follow Knight around and repair it in the shooting phase is good, having the Uncreator gauntlet is even better. Even if you roll a 1, worst you will do is undo the hull point you repaired in the shooting phase. This is clutch and will win games I think. It's a better use for the Dominus than just sitting in a squad of Kataphrons giving them Cognis I think.
-If you're worried about deep striking or drop pod melta early the in the game, surround your Knight with your Sicarian Infiltrators as best you can, you can likely get 2 or 3 facings covered by Neurostatic Aura, meaning your opponents meltas, if in range for 2D6 pen, will be -1 BS.
-If anyone else is wondering which HQ to take if they aren't using Flesh Tearers for their marine ally, take a chaplain with a jump pack and put him with your infiltrators, deploy them normally. He won't get canticles, and can't scout move with them, but he can keep up, Zealot on Infiltrators is ridiculous.
-The giant melta cannon on the Errant is really freaking good. I think its my favorite variant thus far.
Also, I think our Transuranic Arquebuss should be able to up their strength with the canticle that adds to the strength value of a unit. That way if we need it in a turn, we could potentially get strength 7 armorbane. But unfortunately it looks like the rule doesn't work that way. Those snipers always wounding on a 4+ always seems to screw me in some way.
Indeed that would be silly so it is a good job the strength modifier only works on the characters statline and not ranged weapons.
Never been fussed by the stasis field as it's pretty easy to score a 2 up cover with Canticles/ going to ground for at least 2 turns. Plus it's better to have a 4++ than no invuln at all - especially if it( dominus) ends up in combat.
War convocation is a solid list and extremely good, glad you're having fun with it.
Never been fussed by the stasis field as it's pretty easy to score a 2 up cover with Canticles/ going to ground for at least 2 turns. Plus it's better to have a 4++ than no invuln at all - especially if it( dominus) ends up in combat.
Normally yes, you would probably be right. However, my opponent loves to throw ignores cover demo charges and melta guns at me in large quantity. It helps that he constantly rolls high too while my dice roll roughly average. The amount of ignores cover insta-gibbing weapons that he throws at my dominus is ridiculous, so the stasis field ended saving his metallic bacon quite a few times.
You, I wanted to ask... how many skitarii squads should someone take? I feel they are squishy enough to have a lot of them, but expensive enough to only take a few squads.
Depends. What do you want to do with your list? If you're running Convocation, then you'll only be able to take a squad of Vanguard and a squad of Rangers, but if you're running pure skitarii, I recommend a 2-1 ratio of Vanguard to Rangers, with either no specials or max specials.
If you're taking just skitarii, you'll want vangaurd but without context it's hard to say! How many points, what are they fighting, what else would you take?
Before convocation I liked 2 units of 3 plasma and 2 units of 2 haywire in FT drop pods with cult mechanicus allies- kataphron breachers & destroyers at 1500.
I really like the idea of an all skitarii list with huge amounts of dragoons and scouting vangaurd.
20 dragoons ( 4 x 5)
2 x 10 vanguard with 3 plasma scopes
2 x 5 vanguard with 2 haywire
All sqauds with omniscopes
= 1500
I want an unconventional GT list and I've heard that the more dragoons you own the more chance you are to become super Saiyan
I honestly really really want to stay away from the warcon as much as I can, And I want to run a fluffy and fun list combing Cult and Skitarii with the skitarii being the real main force and cult either being a co-hort cybernetica or just the regular FOC.
Right now I have a list with x4 squads of just haywire vanguard and two onager dunecrawlers.
That's a lot of haywire! Cult & Skitarii work well but the truth is war con is the best way to run them.
So what, 4 units of vangaurd at 10 man?
You probably don't need that much haywire and might find 2 onogars overkill for a 3 game competition.
Definately get 3-5 dragoons in there, they are so cheap. It's beautiful.
Try one of the cult mech formations- either the kastalans deathstar or the destroyer ignores cover one. I would have suggested the deep striking breachers but you've got waaaay too much haywire as it is!
Best way to write a list is to understand what you could be facing so try a few things out first and if it doesn't work, war con is extremely fun as it lets you run a little bit of everything. I wish every army had a formation like it!
Wilson wrote: That's a lot of haywire! Cult & Skitarii work well but the truth is war con is the best way to run them.
So what, 4 units of vangaurd at 10 man?
You probably don't need that much haywire and might find 2 onogars overkill for a 3 game competition.
Definately get 3-5 dragoons in there, they are so cheap. It's beautiful.
Try one of the cult mech formations- either the kastalans deathstar or the destroyer ignores cover one. I would have suggested the deep striking breachers but you've got waaaay too much haywire as it is!
Best way to write a list is to understand what you could be facing so try a few things out first and if it doesn't work, war con is extremely fun as it lets you run a little bit of everything. I wish every army had a formation like it!
Well mind you I don't actually have that much haywire yet, as I only have two 10 man squads with three. I like my anti-vehicle, plus they are strong enough to hurt infantry!
I was thinking of the kastelan deathstar for my main force and warlord squad as it's so cool and punchy, but right now I'm still trying to decide what to get next. Are the dragoons really that good?
Wilson wrote: That's a lot of haywire! Cult & Skitarii work well but the truth is war con is the best way to run them.
So what, 4 units of vangaurd at 10 man?
You probably don't need that much haywire and might find 2 onogars overkill for a 3 game competition.
Definately get 3-5 dragoons in there, they are so cheap. It's beautiful.
Try one of the cult mech formations- either the kastalans deathstar or the destroyer ignores cover one. I would have suggested the deep striking breachers but you've got waaaay too much haywire as it is!
Best way to write a list is to understand what you could be facing so try a few things out first and if it doesn't work, war con is extremely fun as it lets you run a little bit of everything. I wish every army had a formation like it!
Well mind you I don't actually have that much haywire yet, as I only have two 10 man squads with three. I like my anti-vehicle, plus they are strong enough to hurt infantry!
I was thinking of the kastelan deathstar for my main force and warlord squad as it's so cool and punchy, but right now I'm still trying to decide what to get next. Are the dragoons really that good?
Dragoons are amazing and the only reason I don't have a few maximum squads of them is cost. Terminator cost for a 11 around vehicle with a 5+ cover and a crap ton of S8 attacks on the charge that is almost as fast as a bike.
Agreed with Wren, honestly I see War Convo as what the Admech Book's Decurion/Gladius should have been. Admech should have been 1 book in the first place, with Knights available as LOW in-codex.
Canticles of the Omnissiah should have been on every unit in this conglomerated Admech dex, and to balance this out Skitarii units should have had access to fewer Doctrina Imperatives. Doctrina Imperatives feels rather shallow as a idea for making an army unique compared to what Canticles does in terms of unique rules, and tactical flexibility.
This is why I run War Convocation, it basically represents the single codex, Decurion/Gladius detachment that we should have had as a full fledged faction in our own right as the Admech.
ultimentra wrote: This is why I run War Convocation, it basically represents the single codex, Decurion/Gladius detachment that we should have had as a full fledged faction in our own right as the Admech.
I agree with this in terms of the contents of the formation but the free wargear all around does make a it a little op.
I completely agree, if I were able to have a little bit more freedom with the units I could take in the formation, like maybe bring some more Skitarii Vanguard or something in the formation in exchange for losing free wargear I would still probably take it. Army-wide canticles are what make it for me. Really brings out the theme of the faction.
I'm taking this to a local comp next week, format is maelstrom - 3 missions, 3 detachments max, no CTA, all LOW allowed. No more than 3 Knights. 1800 pts
Vangaurd - haywire guns and pistol
Rangers - haywire guns and pistol
Rustalkers - pater
Infiltrators- phospheonix
Onogar- Icarus
Dragoons X 4 lances and serpenta( love these guys so much!)
Warden storm missile pod
Libby level 2
Scout snipers
Pod X 3
Gives the flexibility to have either Grav kataphrons OR skitarii haywire in pods to fight gmc/ SHV. Expecting revenents, warhounds and other big Titans.
Should do well, will post the summary when I'm done!
I've been using one squadron of Neutronagers and I must say I'm not afraid of swarms in the slightest.
The small blasts hit one model, true, but the 18 shots from the cognis stubbers tend to tear up infantry swarms.
Edit: As far as the phosphors, I'm not that impressed. Str 6 AP3 heavy 3 twin-linked, even with the Luminagen special rule, doesn't seem to cut it in 40k anymore. I remember even just an edition ago when that would've been mindbogglingly good firepower, but now it just feels like a bit underpowered as a sole weapon, and perhaps on a single Onager (as you only need to cause one casualty to get the Luminagen rule) it would be fantastic. However, a squadron of them seems just ... meh.
Can someone enlighten me? I keep trying to figure out how a War Convocation is that great. I understand the 400 points of free upgrades and no get hot with Canticles is the main selling point. You have to pay 345 Points for sub par units (Infiltrators/Runestalkers) and limited to one Vanguard and one Ranger unit. I understand War Convo can be great with Drop Pods but so can a normal Skitarii Army in pods which I won't do because on impact they would splatter, fluff wise that is...... Just seems like an awful small Army and not a lot of fun to play. Playing a game Sunday with War Convocation for my first time to try it out because everyone keeps saying I need to try it and crazy for not playing it. I am still not sold on the idea and may just end up doing a all Skitarii list.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Why would guys with titanium, servo-assisted legs spatter when inside a drop pod?
Fluffwise there's nothing wrong with it - they're robots for chrissakes.
Fluffwise, mass-produced drop pods are likely created with harnesses specifically made for the advanced physiologies and power-armored forms of the space marines and thus would do nothing for Skitarii. As well, we know little about the heat shielding or life support systems of a pod or the capabilities of Skitarii vs Astartes to survive the possible lack thereof. Then there's the question of whether or not power armored space marines are more resistant to impact stresses brought about by the landing of a drop pod than Skitarii augmetics. Granted, it's neither here nor there, as this is a tactics forum.
I don't know of many imperial weapons that both S10Ap1 and Ignores Cover. It's usually one or the other unless you're taking a Hellhammer (which is S9).
YMMV, my Neutronager probably makes its points back every game just barely, and soaks a bit of fire. If your opponent isn't penning it, or killing it outright it can be hard to kill with IWND.
Spacewolverine wrote: Can someone enlighten me? I keep trying to figure out how a War Convocation is that great. I understand the 400 points of free upgrades and no get hot with Canticles is the main selling point. You have to pay 345 Points for sub par units (Infiltrators/Runestalkers) and limited to one Vanguard and one Ranger unit. I understand War Convo can be great with Drop Pods but so can a normal Skitarii Army in pods which I won't do because on impact they would splatter, fluff wise that is...... Just seems like an awful small Army and not a lot of fun to play. Playing a game Sunday with War Convocation for my first time to try it out because everyone keeps saying I need to try it and crazy for not playing it. I am still not sold on the idea and may just end up doing a all Skitarii list.
Infiltrators and Ruststalkers are far from being sub par.
YMMV, my Neutronager probably makes its points back every game just barely, and soaks a bit of fire. If your opponent isn't penning it, or killing it outright it can be hard to kill with IWND.
I'm surprises to hear that the expensive claw option for IWND is worth it.
As far as the "Neutronager", what have you had the most success shooting at? MCs for concussive? Heavy infantry? Armor?
YMMV, my Neutronager probably makes its points back every game just barely, and soaks a bit of fire. If your opponent isn't penning it, or killing it outright it can be hard to kill with IWND.
I'm surprises to hear that the expensive claw option for IWND is worth it.
As far as the "Neutronager", what have you had the most success shooting at? MCs for concussive? Heavy infantry? Armor?
Armor and any infantry.
What the main gun lacks in anti-horde is made up for by the high ROF of the stubbers.
YMMV, my Neutronager probably makes its points back every game just barely, and soaks a bit of fire. If your opponent isn't penning it, or killing it outright it can be hard to kill with IWND.
I'm surprises to hear that the expensive claw option for IWND is worth it.
As far as the "Neutronager", what have you had the most success shooting at? MCs for concussive? Heavy infantry? Armor?
Multi wound models with 5 toughness or less and no EW, and vehicles.
Definitely right about fluff having no place in the tactics. Been number crunching most of the day amazing how much you can fit in 1750. I will try the War Convocation this weekend.
I guess I just haven't figured out how to use Infiltrators or Ruststalkers effectively yet.
Spacewolverine wrote: Definitely right about fluff having no place in the tactics. Been number crunching most of the day amazing how much you can fit in 1750. I will try the War Convocation this weekend.
I guess I just haven't figured out how to use Infiltrators or Ruststalkers effectively yet.
Playing them in the Convocation will give you an idea how to run them and what their strengths/weaknesses are. I had the same thoughts too looking at them on paper, but in play they're a good addition to the army
I generally set up my Infiltrators in a position where they can both use their speed to cap objectives and their insane number of shots and attacks to deal with enemy objective cappers. I've found that I really need to abuse their Stealth to allow them to survive. Terrain and positioning makes or breaks infiltrators.
I use Ruststalkers much the same, by keeping them out of LOS and charging and haywiring enemy vehicles. Just one vehicle generally earns the unit's points back, and their number of attacks makes them work against MEQs and monstrous creatures.
I've also struggled with keeping my infiltrators and rust stalkers alive, but that's mainly because they have had to fight nothing but heavy flamers, eradicator nova cannons, and ignores cover demo charges. One of the local guard players likes to list tailor. Even with using the war convocation with two drop pods I still haven't beat him yet at 2k points. You would be surprised at what veterans with melta bombs do to a Knight. 120 point squad will take your 370+ point knight in a single turn of combat if they pass their fear check.
His dice that always roll hot tends to help him out too... I have had nothing but extremely poor luck while running War Convo with exception to one time against that army. While it's fun to play, rolling 4 ones and a three on 5 haywire shots to kill a leman russ is not fun. Meanwhile he passes just about every morale check, always hits scatters, and rolls ridiculously high on shooting consistently.
It's because he runs 5 squads of them, so it can become hard to escape them when they are all in transports and Admech has no long range artillery in the same way that the Guard does. My Guard army fairs better against his tactic because I can just stay away from him and shell the crap out of him. Admech doesn't really have the ability to do that. Add in the randomness of Maelstrom (oh it's turn 1 and I drew Assassinate, Behind enemy lines, and score and objective in my enemy's deployment zone? Cool) and you have a recipe for disaster. Ignores cover demo charges are the bane of just about anything, and storm troopers with melta guns that never scatter and always hit are nice for him too. Funny, he refuses to let me roll his dice too. I really hate to go off topic but that gak really bothers me, I'll never understand people who are superstitious or super particular about who touches their dice. Just seems gakky to me.
/rant
I realize that I could be taking conversion fields on my sergeants but I don't want to chance the blind test, I don't really feel like it's worth it. I typically want to be keeping my sergeants from tanking wounds anyways as they are carrying relics. Anyone had a conversion field backfire?
ultimentra wrote: It's because he runs 5 squads of them, so it can become hard to escape them when they are all in transports and Admech has no long range artillery in the same way that the Guard does. My Guard army fairs better against his tactic because I can just stay away from him and shell the crap out of him. Admech doesn't really have the ability to do that. Add in the randomness of Maelstrom (oh it's turn 1 and I drew Assassinate, Behind enemy lines, and score and objective in my enemy's deployment zone? Cool) and you have a recipe for disaster. Ignores cover demo charges are the bane of just about anything, and storm troopers with melta guns that never scatter and always hit are nice for him too. Funny, he refuses to let me roll his dice too. I really hate to go off topic but that gak really bothers me, I'll never understand people who are superstitious or super particular about who touches their dice. Just seems gakky to me.
/rant
I realize that I could be taking conversion fields on my sergeants but I don't want to chance the blind test, I don't really feel like it's worth it. I typically want to be keeping my sergeants from tanking wounds anyways as they are carrying relics. Anyone had a conversion field backfire?
No, But I have seen one blind a huge ork mob that was near a conversion field datasmith.
I, personally, do -not- put CQB weapons in any of my squads. Their regular primary weapons are fantastic, and if you want CQB capabilities, the Vanguard at least can bring it themselves with the Pater Radium (which doesn't replace a weapon).
Ok so I am new to this Thread and, Yes, I am building and planning to run the War Convocation. My group usually plays Tournament level games at the 1850 Range. I am a former Space Marine player, but once the Ad Mech Army came out, I was hooked.
Now, I am working on the 1850 list and have a question about what is best suited to go along with the Convocation in the terms of filling the 300 plus points left over. In my lcal meta, the biggest issues to deal with is Psychic Death Stars. Invisability stacked with 2+ 3++ saves and a crap of ap 4 or better shooting.
Please any recommendations would be great. I am mostly limited to 3 source max in the list.
Culexus Assassin appears to be the norm to answer psychic shenanigans. I have no idea how to use them and know nothing about them but I've seen the lists.
I was thinking that as well with the Culexus, but I am tight on points and have no real effective way to deliver him where he needs to go. I cannot get him plus a Allied detachment and a drop pod for those points.
So I'm looking to expand into some cult mechanicus for my skitarii. Would the best route be to do the war convocation formation? Or pick up an allied detachment of CM woth some breachers, destroyers, and the Kastelan MC dudes?
And I actually dig the electropriests look, I just cant figure out any way I would use them. Has anyone had any morsel of luck using them in some weird way, even with allying in some sort of transport?
KnightScion wrote: Ok so I am new to this Thread and, Yes, I am building and planning to run the War Convocation. My group usually plays Tournament level games at the 1850 Range. I am a former Space Marine player, but once the Ad Mech Army came out, I was hooked.
Now, I am working on the 1850 list and have a question about what is best suited to go along with the Convocation in the terms of filling the 300 plus points left over. In my lcal meta, the biggest issues to deal with is Psychic Death Stars. Invisability stacked with 2+ 3++ saves and a crap of ap 4 or better shooting.
Please any recommendations would be great. I am mostly limited to 3 source max in the list.
KnightScion wrote: I was thinking that as well with the Culexus, but I am tight on points and have no real effective way to deliver him where he needs to go. I cannot get him plus a Allied detachment and a drop pod for those points.
Sergeant Tellion, 5 Sniper Scouts and a Drop Pod are 155, then the Culexus is 135
thats less than your 300 point window, and is a perfect answer
Im still not totally clear on how 30k works with 40k. Can you ally a mechanicum force with a cult or skitarii force? Or can you take mechanicum units in an unbound setting of 40k?
It's usually a case of asking if Age of Darkness can take on a CAD, because despite being the same FOC, they are from dfifferent eras & rulesets. People like Winters SEO & The Dark Artisan do 30k admech vs 40k armies, but as far as I am aware, all are done with prior knowledge.
I believe they should be able to anyway, but as with most FW, dropping it on someone is possibly not the best way forward.
Verviedi wrote: Triaros, all the time. A transport would be very useful.
This. I would even consider taking the Mechanicum Land Raider at this point. Would make for a really nice delivery system for just about any unit, protection for Plasma Vanguard for those unwilling to take pods.
godardc wrote: If you don't use drop pod for your skitarii, would you still put special weapons on your vanguard ? And would they still be better than the rangers ?
I understand why they are better in drop pod, but without, I'm afread they die before shooting.
yes I would put special weapons on my Vanguard, but I wouldnt put plasma on them, just arc rifles.
yes I would still take mostly Vanguard and very few rangers. They still get scout, are still more deadly, and are still 20% cheaper than rangers.
For foot rangers, I prefer arc rifles. That moves through cover is too good to not have.
godardc wrote: If you don't use drop pod for your skitarii, would you still put special weapons on your vanguard ? And would they still be better than the rangers ?
I understand why they are better in drop pod, but without, I'm afread they die before shooting.
yes I would put special weapons on my Vanguard, but I wouldnt put plasma on them, just arc rifles.
yes I would still take mostly Vanguard and very few rangers. They still get scout, are still more deadly, and are still 20% cheaper than rangers.
For foot rangers, I prefer arc rifles. That moves through cover is too good to not have.
Truth, Arc Rifles on Rangers are amazing! I run 3 Squads when running my Skitarii. 2 10 man and 1 5 man, Love them.
KnightScion wrote: I was thinking that as well with the Culexus, but I am tight on points and have no real effective way to deliver him where he needs to go. I cannot get him plus a Allied detachment and a drop pod for those points.
Sergeant Tellion, 5 Sniper Scouts and a Drop Pod are 155, then the Culexus is 135
thats less than your 300 point window, and is a perfect answer
This May be the way to go. I can even take 3 Drop pods for extra speed on a couple units to get them in better position.
You have to take 2 scout squads to get 3 pods, can't take more than one FA in an allied detachment. Gotta go CAD.
What I do is take a Chaplain with a Jump Pack and 2 scout squads with bolters and camo cloaks. Chaplain deploys with Infiltrators, that re-roll to hit in the first round of combat can be really brutal.
Culexus is good in a pod as an option but I can tell you by himself he is great as well. I usually keep him close to the things the psychic death star would come after namely my knight / backfield. In games where you don't face a a psycher I infiltrate him up the board and threaten things like linebreaker, backfield objectives or just board control in the middle. ID on a 6 is still scary and as long as you avoid str8+ blasts and dakka he is/can be very durable as well. Added him to my War Convocation list awhile ago and haven't looked back.
Btw hi! I have checked this thread a few times.. if you guys want to ask questions I can be happy to answer some. I have played over 50 games with my War Convocation and have loved every game with it Let me know if I can help!
Okay so here's something I thought was really dumb wording in the codex last night. The Kastelan robot maniple's wording for replacing the power fists with "a twin-linked heavy phosphor blaster" made me think that you replace each power fist with a twin-linked heavy phosphor blast. As in each arm had one. It looked like that on the model, confused the gak out of me last night. I only just now realized I was firing six more shots than I should have. Really GW? Really? You couldn't have said "trade 2 power fists for a single twin-linked heavy phosphor blaster"? Having one gun on each arm making a single gun twin linked? Two guns firing 3 shots? I'm sorry that just feels mentally weird for me.
The look of the model combined with the wording which, at first glance made me think each arm was a TL heavy phosphor blast on its own... ugh GW please write your gak more specifically.
Welp, guess I learned how effective protector protocol is?
minigun762 wrote: The biggest allure of Rangers for me is the precision shots.
On the table top, how valuable has that actually been?
For me none. I don't think I've ever shot there weapons other than Arc Rifles or Transuranic Aquebus.
I usually join my Magos to them and sit on the backfield objective. The range 60 aquebus (spelling?) allows me to reach out and poke space marine non characters or light vehicles. if anything gets too close his ap 3 or ap 1 shots are fairly nice and the snipers will usually down 1-3 guys as well. So nothing I would take if I didn't have to (War Convocation) but given that I DO have to take them I am fairly happy with their performance at that role.
Thoughts on Culexus in pod vs Coteaz and Inquis. buddy with 3x servo skulls as allies for War Convo with Flesh Tearer Pods? Have a local tourney weekend after next and debating which to take. Leaning Coteaz, Culexus is so match up dependent. And while going second is not much of a bummer, getting seized on sucks. Any advice would be much appreciated.
If you go against a psychic death star without a culexus, good luck. A guy locally runs a Centurionstar with Loth, Draigo, an Inquisitor, etc. Turns it invisible every turn and you can't touch it while it kills a bunch of stuff. I don't even want to try and fight it with my 2 pod War Convocation.
wodyjoe wrote: Thoughts on Culexus in pod vs Coteaz and Inquis. buddy with 3x servo skulls as allies for War Convo with Flesh Tearer Pods? Have a local tourney weekend after next and debating which to take. Leaning Coteaz, Culexus is so match up dependent. And while going second is not much of a bummer, getting seized on sucks. Any advice would be much appreciated.
I too have these combos and I can honestly say I prefer the culexus but it isn't by a large margin at all and could be play style dependent. Coteaz/inq gives you a lot of utility and with the skulls you play to the mission very well and give your Sicarians some breathing room to do what they do best (grab objectives and look scary / be mobile).
Misconception though with the culexus is he isn't very good if no psychers.. simply not true. He still is putting out decent damage in shooting but his infiltrate and ID on a 6 makes him fairly scary as long as you avoid str8+ and dakka. I use him to threaten backfields and grab LB/objectives when he doesn't have his primary job to do. Really really solid 140 points and he gels nicely with the WC
I've been thinking of adding Coteaz. Ability to have the enemy re roll seize the initiative. I lost a game in a tournament recently due to that ultimately my fault for my deployments but 1-6 chance having that reroll is awesome.
That and the model is good for some sick conversions. I recently converted my Coteaz model with a Vanguard alpha head (the one with the mohawk) and replaced the head of his hammer with a mechanicus power axe head from an old metal techpriest.
Either I just played a match in Bizarro World, or Corpuscarii are actually situationally very good. I had a unit of them wipe a squad of Dire Avengers and take two wounds off a Farseer, making her run off the board.
Either I just played a match in Bizarro World, or Corpuscarii are actually situationally very good. I had a unit of them wipe a squad of Dire Avengers and take two wounds off a Farseer, making her run off the board.
How big was the unit? 5? 10? They can put out a lot of shots.
I just watched a game on Thursday at 1850 pts. It was the War Covocation plus a unit of Kastelan Robots vs A fast attack Eldar Army. What I found most interesting (a fact I did not realize) was that for 50pts you can get a void shield generator as part of the convocation and then get the free upgrades. So he was fielding a Void shield generator with 3 void shields and tank traps for 50 pts!
That shield generator lasted the entire game and really created a safe zone for his fragile troops. With a little bit of planning and proper placement there was no place for the eldar to drop in behind the shield.
I will also say that if Infiltrators can get into combat they can really hurt a unit.
Either I just played a match in Bizarro World, or Corpuscarii are actually situationally very good. I had a unit of them wipe a squad of Dire Avengers and take two wounds off a Farseer, making her run off the board.
How big was the unit? 5? 10? They can put out a lot of shots.
A five man unit of them. I do own 10, but I have a feeling that it would be irresponsible not to take 5 of them just for the chance of ridiculousness like that occuring.
Infiltrators are definitely amazing. I retract what I said earlier in this thread about them. I am really starting to love Rune stalkers too. The amount of utility they add is insane. I do think Killclade supported by 4-8 Dragoons could actually be really effective.
Saying that, Eldar with 18+ Scatbikes will destroy a Killclade do to insta death. I just think you could make it very competitive.
I'm currently running a pure Skitarii list, its really fun, great against Armor and Marines. I really do need to add Coteaz though but don't have the Inquisitor book.
KnightScion wrote: I just watched a game on Thursday at 1850 pts. It was the War Covocation plus a unit of Kastelan Robots vs A fast attack Eldar Army. What I found most interesting (a fact I did not realize) was that for 50pts you can get a void shield generator as part of the convocation and then get the free upgrades. So he was fielding a Void shield generator with 3 void shields and tank traps for 50 pts!
That shield generator lasted the entire game and really created a safe zone for his fragile troops. With a little bit of planning and proper placement there was no place for the eldar to drop in behind the shield.
I will also say that if Infiltrators can get into combat they can really hurt a unit.
As far as I'm aware, the wording of the ruule in the convocation would not make building upgrades free, since they're not "Wargear or relics"
From what I was shown and explained, the Fortification is part of the formation and once taken as part of the formation with the army it becomes a part of their list. The formation des state that all units in the formation do gain the benifit of the wargear,
KnightScion wrote: From what I was shown and explained, the Fortification is part of the formation and once taken as part of the formation with the army it becomes a part of their list. The formation des state that all units in the formation do gain the benifit of the wargear,
Fortification upgrades are not "Wargear" or "Relics", they're either Building, Obstacles, and Battlements & Battlefield upgrades.
On another note though, that new Mechanicum night would be fun in a War Convocation
The fortification is not a Wargear, I agree. It is still bought as part of the formation and there fore gains the benifit of free upgrades. (But again, this is how it was explained and played at an ITC Tournament)
Ok I see where the mistake is. The listing for the Void Shield Generator does not have wargear or relics, so the upgrades are not included since they are listed as "options"
That does change things. I will have to bring that up to the local player.
How has inquisition been as allies with the Mechanicus? I am thinking of running them along with my Skitarii until I get the cult book (and more models)
They are. With vanguard's short range you're not getting any shots in the first round anyways so it easy enough to use the first round loading the skitarii up and then exploiting the the protection while the acolytes hold the backfield.
Ir0njack wrote: They are. With vanguard's short range you're not getting any shots in the first round anyways so it easy enough to use the first round loading the skitarii up and then exploiting the the protection while the acolytes hold the backfield.
This^. While I wish I could use their scout move to do so instead, I would have to use the first turns movement. Once the new Guard codex drops and gets FA Chimeras I plan on painting/converting up some Admech Chimeras just for my Skitarii troops. Can have some guard hold the backfield while the Skitarii move up.
I have watched and used the Kastelan robots and from My experience the way that has worked best for me is with the twin link blaster and the mounted blaster. They are simply too slow to get any use until late game. I watched a game and he had the twin PF and they did nothing but draw fire and walk along.
Being able to shoot and still have str 6 ap2 CC attacks with the option to smash has been great for me. They are still a big threat that cannot be ignored until late game.
Thanks I akso reached the conclusion that double blaster was the way to go. I could see the argument for one blaster and one flamer. But I dont think the robots will be in combat very often anyway.
I've been reading a few pages of this thread and lurking here and there. I used to play Warhammer 40k when I was a kid like 10 years ago, but only really collected and painted models. I very recently decided to return and thought I'd get into playing the actually table top game as opposed to just collecting them. The table top game has always fascinated me and I played the trial game at the GW store and it was insanely fun.
Anywho, I've decided to start collecting and gaming with Skitarii! However, as someone who is completely new to the tabletop game and not knowing the rules etc, I found it incredibly hard to figure out how to build an army list and what I should be taking into account etc. I'm planning on getting a rulebook in the next couple days and I'm gonna read through that.
However, just from lurking around and reading a bit, I feel I have the tiniest basic understanding and I've put together the start of my army list. I don't know how many points I'm aiming for but I thought I'd list down at least how I plan to build my troop squads and then fill in the gaps afterwards with other units. This is what I have so far:
Do let me know what I haven't taken into consideration etc....
So far what I plan to do is use my arquebus ranger squad to hang back, maybe camp objectives and take pot shots. My other ranger squad with the arc rifles, to move through cover, play aggressively - maybe behind a vanguard line. Then my 2 different squads of vanguards, 3 plascav and 3 arc rifles, do the rest of the plays.
This is all I have for now, depending on the feedback, I'll then fill the gaps with other units and troops, like dragoons for example, with what I'm lacking. If any of you could also point me in the right direction to learn more etc, please do let me know!
CA, in the future you will want to remove that second Ranger squad. Vanguard are better in most ways, and Arquebi are a bit derpy for a special weapon. I recommend buying an Onager Dunecrawler next. How is your local meta? Is it flyer-heavy, tank-heavy, competitive?
Played against new Tau and Eldar/Harlequins yesterday, both games were close. 2300 points vs. Tau and 1600 vs. Harle/Eldar. Both games to an extent came down to who drew good objective cards.
Tau:
Player brought the Optimized Stealth Cadre with his Hunter Contingent(Cadre?) against my War Convocation with Inq. Allies. He brought Shadowsun, a light Farsight bomb, a single Ghostkeel and 2 stealth squads for the formation, some firewarriors, two squads of pathfinders, a riptide, an ethereal, a hammerhead, and a squad of Crisis Suits.
I brought War Convocation, Knight Errant, 2 Dragoons, Plasma on Vanguard, Arc on Rangers, Neutron Onager, a Kastellan Maniple with 3 Kastellans all shooty, the rest the typical stuff you see like Destroyers with grav etc etc. I also brought Coteaz, an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, and 2 acolyte squads with Chimeras. The 2 acolyte squads deployed on objectives in my DZ while the Skitarii hopped into the Chimeras first turn. This ended up actually coming handy as the transports saved the Skitarii from a good bit of shooting and the acolyte squads got ignored while they scored objective points for me.
Game was the stealing objectives maelstrom mission.
Things I learned from this game-
Tau players no longer have to fear the Knight even if they don't bring the Storm Surge. The Ghostkeel by itself killed my Imperial Knight with 1 turn of shooting. Hitting rear armor ignoring cover is brutal even with the invuln, especially when the Ghostkeel has a twin linked melta. He may have gotten lucky with rolling a 3 on his D3 extra hull points for his explodes result, but just imagine if he had taken 2, or even 3 ghostkeels instead of wasting points on Shadowsun or Farsight...
Something Tau players running Hunter Contingent will try to is use Supporting Fire in combination with Coordinated Firepower. Don't let them do this, because Coordinated Firepower states "In the shooting phase..." You fire overwatch in the assault phase, and while overwatch is fire like a shooting attack, it is not done in the shooting phase, so no, they do not get to overwatch at BS2 without markerlights.
This may seem like a given, but get into CC ASAP. Rust Stalkers and Infiltrators will become your linchpin units if they aren't already. Make sure to turn on your Shroudpsalm to force him to spend markerlights on ignoring cover against units in the open, especially against your CC units that will be charging. I got very lucky with my first close combats as on turn 2 assaults I left only a few units remaining of his, meaning on his turn he couldn't fire at me but the close combat finished, leaving him unable to shoot those units.
Using Invocation of Machine Might (+# to Strength Characteristic) is really good to use alongside Infiltrators with Taser Goads if you need to kill a vehicle with rear armor 11 or higher.
Kastellans were a key unit for me, they annihilated whatever they shot at besides the Ghostkeel with a 2+ cover save. 2 robots is good, 3 is brutal. They killed Shadowsun in CC, and then went on to slaughter Farsight and his squad in shooting. Was a glorious day for the Machine God.
Against Harlequins/Eldar-
He brought this list to bring Harlequins with a crutch of high-power Eldar units. 2 Harlequin troupes, 1 unit of 2 Harlequin bikes, A death jester, a shadowseer, and a wraith construct formation with a farseer on a bike with all kinds of ridiculous upgrades, squad of warp spiders. Wraith construct formation was a spirit seer, wraithguard with D cannons, Wraithlord, and Wraithknight with D shooting. The wraithknight and his farseer on a bike were pretty much solely responsible for his victory, surprise surprise.
I brought War Convocation- Knight Errant, 2 units of the destroyers, 2 dragoons, etc. etc. no Kastellans this time. Basically a bare bones War Convo with an additional Dragoon and full 10 man skitarii squads. Since my opponent was toning down his list by bringing Harlequins I agreed to half the amount of free wargear I brought.
Things I learned-
Farseers apparently have the ability to cast Eldritch storm reliably every turn and ignore perils by discarding a warp charge and they can reroll any failed psychic dice... the feth
Don't underestimate the Harlequins ability to move up quickly and charge, I was caught off guard and my Infiltrators died for it.
The mobility of any kind of jetbikes will make you cry. They will take your objectives and get in your deployment zone, then leave whenever they want. A farseer on a bike is basically untouchable without Ignores Cover or high weight of fire.
Wraithknights fear grav, as they should. Dragoons actually aren't bad against them on the charge either in a pinch.
Overall Things I learned from both games:
New Tau is not an easy matchup for War Convocation, but not an uphill one either depending on how optimized his list is. I didn't necessarily bring a tournament-level list considering I brought 2 Chimeras and inquisitors as opposed to blood angel rent-a-pods and an assassin, I think the matchup was rather even. We both brought good units, and not so good units. The matchup will basically come to down luck of the draw in Maelstrom missions, and the admech player's ability to conduct the movement phase. Getting in range to charge with Shroudpsalm still on in Turn 2 is key. Kill the Markerlights, don't be afraid to multicharge. Grav Kataphrons are as we all know a key unit for us in the shooting phase- everything else is gravy.
Eldar is still on top even when having to crutch Harlequins. Stay far away from harlequins and gun them down with BS7 Skitarii units.
Hope this post gives you guys a little bit of insight if you want me to post my lists I can.
@ultimentra Good job on the write up! Very informative =D Can you tell us who won each game?
I myself had a fun game against a very infantry and tank heavy AM player who brought a grey knight squad. Instead of using knights, I finally broke down and played an unbound list.
Brought 2 blood angel rhinos for my arc vanguard squads and a las/plas razorback, along with a tech priest dominus as a warlord. I have to say, if nothing else, the rhinos did an amazing job of keeping my vanguard safe for turn 1 and 2. All the str 6 firepower that would slaughter the skitarii were absorbed by the rhinos and, until immobilization, were great for getting them where they need to go while shooting all the way. The single razorback also provided some nice fire support too. Overall one of the funnest games I had with skitarii!
Thanks Tiger, I won against the new Tau, lost against Harle/Eldar. If he hadn't brought a farseer on a jetbike with two other jetbikes that may have been a victory as well, but alas it was a crutch unit to make up for the Harlequins.
Played a game this Saturday, here is how it went.
Deployment-
Mission- Purge The Alien
Opponent Warlord Trait - Split Fire
My Warlord Trait - Strategic Genius
My opponents went first, I failed to seize the initative.
Turn 1-
Opponent's Turn
The Farseer cast Guide and Fortune on his own unit of Dark Reapers, which killed a Ranger with their guns. The Fire Prism took one wound off of the Dominus. The Librarian cast Shrouding.
My Turn
I popped Shroudpslam and the +2 BS Imperative.
My Grav Kataphrons moved to get a line of sight on the Dreadknight, and almost everything moved forward. My Infiltrators moved towards the Centurions, killing one. Combined fire from my Breachers and Knight dropped the Wave Serpent, and the fusillade of grav fire from my Kataphrons killed the Dreadknight. I also killed three Dark Reapers with my Transuranic Arquebi.
Turn 2-
Opponent's Turn
The Crimson Hunter arrived on the table, taking a hull point off the Knight. The Librarian casted Hallucination on the Infiltrators, pinning them. The Fire Prism fired and immobilized the Onager. Combined fire from the Devastators, Centurions, and Warp Spiders kill two Infiltrators and wounded one more.
My Turn
I popped Omniscience (reroll to hit)
The Infiltrators got unpinned and fired at the Grav cents, doing a wound to one. The Grav Kataphrons, Arc Rifle Vanguard, and the Knight's gatling gun fired at the Crimson Hunter, causing it to come crashing down.
Turn 3-
Opponent's Turn
The Drop Pod carrying the Dreadnought arrived. The Fire Prism strafed around the central bunker and shot the Onager Dunecrawler, taking another HP off. The Warp Spiders jumped forward, combined fire from them and the Fire Dragons dropping the Infiltrators. The Dreadnought fired its heavy flamers, killing all but one Ranger. The Dark Reapers shot the Sydonian Dragoons, killing them both.
My Turn
The Arc Vanguard exploded the Drop Pod (which killed an Electro-Priest and two Electro-Priests. The Dominus' ERAD Beamer did a hull point to the Dread. The Onager fired it's Neutron laser, scattered behind a building, and TKed the last Ranger. The Knight killed two Devastators, and the Ruststalkers charged the Dreadnought, doing nothing and dying horribly to Dat Overwatch.
Turn 4-
Opponent's Turn
The Dread shot it's flamers at the Grav Kataphrons, killing 3. The Fire Prism fired at the Onager again, bouncing off the shield. Then, disaster! The Fire Dragons did four HP of damage to the Dread, and the Grav Cents finished it off. It went NUCLEAR, killing one Breacher. The Dread then charged the Grav Squad, but was immobilized by Overwatch.
My Turn-
Something killed every Warp Spider but the Exarch. (Not sure what, I'm pretty sure they dangerous terrained to death. All I know is that the Breachers killed 2 on a previous turn.) My Grav Kataphrons wiped out the Devastators, and the Breachers shot the Fire Dragons, but failed the charge. The Arc Vanguard dropped the Dreadnought, and the Onager Dunecrawler fired its Neutron Laser, wiping out the Dark Reapers.
Turn 5-
Opponent's Turn
The Grav Cents fired and wiped out the Breachers. The one last lonely Fire Dragon begin fleeing to its board edge, and the Fire Prism shot the Onager Dunecrawler again, failing to do anything. Like a ghost in the night, the lone Warp Spider Exarch teleported behind the Dunecrawler and wrecked it.
My Turn
The Grav Kataphrons killed the Grav Cents, and... nothing else happened that I can recall.
End Score
Mechanicus 11, Eldar and Space Marines 8.
Notes:
I really want to play a game without the Convocation. I am sensing that its sheer power level is hurting my ability to "get good" with AdMech. I will have to kick away that crutch. This was a beautifully fun game, and I would absolutely do it again.
Good writeup, I disagree that the power level of Convocation is crutching you. Convocation is the only thing that makes our army able to compete with the likes of eldar, tau, and marines shenanigans. Without it, we are fielding 3 separate armies, Sktiarii, CM, and Knights, with it we field 1 single army that works together, as it should be thematically. Not to mention that taking these armies by themselves are what makes them strong, getting more powerful canticles and more use out of doctrina imperatives, but this also leaves these armies with glaring weaknesses. Convocation is what should have been our 1, single, admech codex's decurion formation to begin with IMO.
Of course, it's completely your choice but I honestly feel that people who play other factions and keep calling War Convocation OP or a crutch, then play their Decurion, Gladius, Hunter Contingent, whatever are full of gak. It's basically the only thing we have besides our Kastelan-star formation, which is susceptible to D.
I always tone down my list when playing a casual game, say for instance against an ork list, bog standard Tyranids, or even the proto-typical "noob" space marine or CSM list with a smattering of everything. But if my opponent is going to optimize so will I, War Convocation is how we do that IMO.
ultimentra wrote: Good writeup, I disagree that the power level of Convocation is crutching you. Convocation is the only thing that makes our army able to compete with the likes of eldar, tau, and marines shenanigans. Without it, we are fielding 3 separate armies, Sktiarii, CM, and Knights, with it we field 1 single army that works together, as it should be thematically.
Ehhh. I'm not sure I would say that it's the "only thing", as there's other things that can be added in.
It's definitely a huge help though!
Of course, it's completely your choice but I honestly feel that people who play other factions and keep calling War Convocation OP or a crutch, then play their Decurion, Gladius, Hunter Contingent, whatever are full of gak. It's basically the only thing we have besides our Kastelan-star formation, which is susceptible to D.
Truthfully, part of it is that the people locally don't quite know what these kinds of things do and the people he's playing against are still relatively new.
I always tone down my list when playing a casual game, say for instance against an ork list, bog standard Tyranids, or even the proto-typical "noob" space marine or CSM list with a smattering of everything. But if my opponent is going to optimize so will I, War Convocation is how we do that IMO.
Putting it politely, some of the issue can be laid at Verv's feet as he keeps agreeing to play against what can best be described as "handicapped" or "unfocused" lists.
The Eldar player he played against? He's got an unnatural fear of Skitarii. It's actually highly entertaining as I put that into him some months ago, when he played against a pure Skitarii list and it became a very close game where he had to keep trading shots with a squadron of 2 Onagers against his Dark Reapers(nothing else on the board really merited the Neutron Lasers' attentions so I went with it), and the Onagers kept making their IWND rolls and never losing hull points while he'd make Cover saves.
It was visibly disconcerting to him.
Since then, he's made a point of running bizarre lists testing things out (usually it seems like he's trying parts of a netlist coupled with what he actually had on hand; i.e. Shining Spears with a Farseer) and mainly playing against Verv.
The other player is Verv's friend, who tends to just throw whatever he has down on the field.
Ah okay, I see. In my local meta there's a distinct line drawn between the "tourney list" players, and the "casual" players that like to throw down somewhat optimized lists, and occasionally something that's toned down. Not a whole lot of new or uninformed players in my scene.
Most have no problem with me running War Convocation as long as I'm not running blood angel rent a pods with it, as my W/L record against various armies proves that War Convo is definitely beatable by a non-tournament list. But nobody wants to play against our local "psychic cent star with draigo, coteaz, and loth" player or our flyrant/wraithknight spam player. For good reason.
Right now, we effectively have two distinct groups, with some overlap:
One group is primarily casual, playing at the local GW shop.
The other group has aspirations of being tournament players, playing exclusively at a local independent.
There's a few people who go between both groups, but a large number of the casual players who get their start at the local GW end up moving on to the other and kind of look down on playing at the GW.
In practice, how good are the cogni flamers on destroyers? Are the phosphor blasters better overall?
The flamers look great on paper but IDK if they are what a destroyer with grav wants (really only way to run destroyers imo). And really why do people take breachers at all instead of destroyers. They seem like a much worse unit than the destroyers.
Forgive me if these are newb questions I have just started getting to gether my own ad mech army.
On a side not i wish the War Convocation was a battle congregation, skitarii maniple, and oathsworn detatchment. But I guess we can't have everything lol.
Cognis Flamers are situational, but extremely effective in their role. Sadly, this role is Overwatch, and any foe getting close enough to your Destroyers to charge them, that is a herald of You Done Fethed Up.
Phosphor Blasters are generally more useful, as they nerf cover saves, allowing your Grav Cannons to be more effective against MEQs and TEQs. The problem with them is the low rate of fire and crappy AP value, combined with the low BS of Destroyers.
I run Breachers because they are a good source of long-range Haywire. 24" is not going to cut it in many situations, and 6 36" Haywire shots, even at BS3 is definitely worth it for first-turn popping vehicles.
Kanluwen wrote:Right now, we effectively have two distinct groups, with some overlap: One group is primarily casual, playing at the local GW shop. The other group has aspirations of being tournament players, playing exclusively at a local independent.
There's a few people who go between both groups, but a large number of the casual players who get their start at the local GW end up moving on to the other and kind of look down on playing at the GW.
Which is hilarious.
That is pretty interesting, there seems to be mix of everything at the GW and the local independent stores here.
NorseSig wrote:In practice, how good are the cogni flamers on destroyers? Are the phosphor blasters better overall?
The flamers look great on paper but IDK if they are what a destroyer with grav wants (really only way to run destroyers imo). And really why do people take breachers at all instead of destroyers. They seem like a much worse unit than the destroyers.
Forgive me if these are newb questions I have just started getting to gether my own ad mech army.
On a side not i wish the War Convocation was a battle congregation, skitarii maniple, and oathsworn detatchment. But I guess we can't have everything lol.
I personally don't take the flamers, and I actually oftentimes forget about the Phosphor blasters anyway as they are either out of range of the targets I am shooting at (that 30'' range on the grav is really nice) or they just wouldn't do anything to the target. I should be more diligent about remembering to fire them before using the grav cannons.
Breachers are really good in the Holy Requisitioner formation IMO, as it is a super good way to bring down haywire right where you need it. The main problem I have found is that people locally just aren't bringing many vehicles. The rest of the army has a decent enough amount of stuff to deal with the small amount of vehicles we face anyhow through grav-glancing, Dragoons, Dunecrawlers, Haywire on Skitarii, etc. If I knew I was going to be playing a big game with a lot of vehicles, I would bring holy requisition with Arc Kataphrons for sure. Just not enough call for their specialized weaponry in an 1850-2000 point battle. Heck I was going to bring them to a local apocalypse game recently, but unfortunately the majority of the other team was Tau, and their suits are MCs not vehicles, haywire wouldn't do much.
Maybe I could see myself running them if I knew was I going to be fighting rhino rush gladius... hmmmm....
Cognis Flamers are situational, but extremely effective in their role. Sadly, this role is Overwatch, and any foe getting close enough to your Destroyers to charge them, that is a herald of You Done Fethed Up.
Phosphor Blasters are generally more useful, as they nerf cover saves, allowing your Grav Cannons to be more effective against MEQs and TEQs. The problem with them is the low rate of fire and crappy AP value, combined with the low BS of Destroyers.
I run Breachers because they are a good source of long-range Haywire. 24" is not going to cut it in many situations, and 6 36" Haywire shots, even at BS3 is definitely worth it for first-turn popping vehicles.
Yeah I see what mean on the flamers and the Breacher now. I guess I missed it because my local meta is a lot of bikes/footsloggers ect. Grav tends to be more useful when you don't have as many transports to pop. I guess I look at the breacher and see that silly melee weapon and think that they are a shooty unit with useless melee crap that drives their price up so I tend to ignore them. But now that I look at them, they could be equally useful. Depending on what your army needs.
Breachers are really good in the Holy Requisitioner formation IMO, as it is a super good way to bring down haywire right where you need it. The main problem I have found is that people locally just aren't bringing many vehicles. The rest of the army has a decent enough amount of stuff to deal with the small amount of vehicles we face anyhow through grav-glancing, Dragoons, Dunecrawlers, Haywire on Skitarii, etc. If I knew I was going to be playing a big game with a lot of vehicles, I would bring holy requisition with Arc Kataphrons for sure. Just not enough call for their specialized weaponry in an 1850-2000 point battle. Heck I was going to bring them to a local apocalypse game recently, but unfortunately the majority of the other team was Tau, and their suits are MCs not vehicles, haywire wouldn't do much.
Maybe I could see myself running them if I knew was I going to be fighting rhino rush gladius... hmmmm....
I will have to look closer at that formation. I don't know if you would need the breachers to pop the rhinos. My opponents never seemed to have troubles popping my IH rhinos when I ran gladius. I think the grav would be more useful for blowing up the toughest marine units as well as the occupants of the rhinos.
I use cognis flamers on all my kataphrons and I would never go back. They are fantastic in overwatch as was already said but it also gives them SOME utility when grav isn't as good for that role.. clearing troops etc. Of course this means dropping them in close which can be bad but if you can do enough damage/support them and also make your opponent think about charging into 18 grav shots and 9 wall of death is pretty good too.
Solar_lion wrote:CA.. go back and read this entire blog.. There is some good lists and discussions on what works.
Check out some battle reports. It' should give you some insight on how the army plays. Lastly... get to playing. That's the real learning.
Will do, thanks for the help!
Verviedi wrote:CA, in the future you will want to remove that second Ranger squad. Vanguard are better in most ways, and Arquebi are a bit derpy for a special weapon. I recommend buying an Onager Dunecrawler next. How is your local meta? Is it flyer-heavy, tank-heavy, competitive?
Ah okay, I'll just keep it at a stock configuration for now then; 5x galvanic rifles.
Onager Dunecrawler? Because of the anti air? or just because all round, that would be the best next choice regardless of loadout?
Also, unsure of the local meta, I should ask around. I will let you know, if I find out anytime soon. Thanks for your help too
Dunecrawlers are a very versatile unit, good for both anti-armor/heavy infantry or AA. The hierachy of Dunecrawler guns is Icarus Array/Neutron Laser > ERAD Beamer > Phosphor Blaster.
How competitive would you guys say the war convocation formation is? Can it go toe-to-toe with top tier armies, and if you were planning to use it as such, what units would you ally in?
Hive City Dweller wrote: How competitive would you guys say the war convocation formation is? Can it go toe-to-toe with top tier armies, and if you were planning to use it as such, what units would you ally in?
In short-
Yes and No. If you want to compete with top tier army builds like Centurionstar, bring pods and an assassin.
Long answer-
When War Convocation first came out people were blown away by it. "Free wargear and relics wtf? ooohhh that's so OP and all units can have stealth and shrouded omg pls reecius pls nerf" but really War Convo has been figured out by top tier players as of late. Buffs to Tau help with this as well, as much of the Tau's style of take away cover, erase unit is a direct counter to war convocation's play style. War Convocation without allies can be nasty, but it is limited in its versatility. War Convocation by itself does one thing- move up with stealth and shrouded, get close, shoot you to death then assault you with surprisingly good CC units and force to you shoot at our big scary Knight that usually doesn't do much but kill one or two units and draw fire.
When you bring in blood angel allies with the flesh-tearers rent-a-pod formation to give all of the skitarii and kataphrons drop pods, and add in a culexus assassin with a pod as well, that list has won tournaments. One of the users you saw post above, InControl, won a tournament with a list similar to that. I'm sure you should be able to find it somewhere on the interwebs.
Hey guys, I am looking at resurrecting and starting my Skitarii/Ad Mech army once again and I have a few questions as I really don't know much about them since almost no one around here plays them. My questions are:
-Best Loadout for the Onager? I am going to have a minimum of 1 with the Icarus Array for Skyfire purposes but I am planning on getting at least 2 more, so any input on the best way to run these guys would be great!
-Vanguard or Rangers using allied transports? Just curious how many of you utilize other armies Formations or books to ensure our guys get to where they need to go safely.
-How many Kataphrons and better to put them in a big squad or MSU? I am currently running x3 Squads of them (x2 squads of Destroyers with Grav and x1 squad of Breachers with Heavy Arc Rifles).
gmaleron wrote: Hey guys, I am looking at resurrecting and starting my Skitarii/Ad Mech army once again and I have a few questions as I really don't know much about them since almost no one around here plays them. My questions are:
-Best Loadout for the Onager? I am going to have a minimum of 1 with the Icarus Array for Skyfire purposes but I am planning on getting at least 2 more, so any input on the best way to run these guys would be great!
-Vanguard or Rangers using allied transports? Just curious how many of you utilize other armies Formations or books to ensure our guys get to where they need to go safely.
-How many Kataphrons and better to put them in a big squad or MSU? I am currently running x3 Squads of them (x2 squads of Destroyers with Grav and x1 squad of Breachers with Heavy Arc Rifles).
Thanks for your input guys!
- the S10 laser is often valuable.
-vanguard
-I'm trying a single squad of grav destroyers in an Allied Detachment supporting an invisible death star, five of them so they gain most advantage from psychic powers. But if you're not throwing buffs around, an average of 9 grav hits from three destroyers is more than enough.
So, I am sure you guys get this question a lot, but I am look for advice in starting a Mechanicus army. I am a bit overwhelmed with the options, so I am looking for some advice. I have played Guard since 5th edition, and that was the last time I "started" an army. I have a few questions I was hoping I could get help with;
1. Is it possible to run the army without doing the whole "everyone shares a transport" thing? I REALLY don't like how it looks on the stable and was hoping I could play the mechanicus side of the house as the majority of the army, allying in assassins and inquisition sparingly (I am totally cool mixing knights in though, with them being mechanicum aligned and all that).
2. I see that lost of people seem to be testing the Holy Requsitioner formation. I planned on getting that at first to ally with my IG, but I was considering the Torsion cannons over the Arc Rifles. Are the Arc Rifles the strictly better option?
3. Where is the best place to "start" with mechanicus. Should I continue and go into Cult mechanicus first, or should I start with skitarri?
4. Has anyone tried using a bunker with an escape hatch in skitarri in place of a drop pod to get some units up the field faster?
1. It is very possible. Do not underestimate the speed of the Skitarii units. Having the ability to Scout up and place your units up to 18 inches from your deployment zone. And Using infiltrators and their scout move can get you VERY far up the table where you need them. But be careful, they are fragile and draw a lot of attention that close. Also using the Holy Requisitioner Formation can get ou two strong units on an objective that are hard to remove and pack a hard punch.
2. The Holy Requistioner formation is great! Either way, it really depends on your local meta though. If you have a lot of Armor on the table you want the Arc, if you have units with multiple wound models the Torsion is the way to go.
3. I found that when I started my Mechanicus I went with the Mechanicus first as they were easier to ally and worked well with a number of allies. Destroyers are great as troops with great range and 2 wounds. The Tech Priest is a strong HQ that is very versatile
4. The bunker is a great idea, but be careful. Find out how the escape hatch is ruled in your area, in a lot of places it is under debate about placing the hatch and where. But putting your Skitarii in there and popping them out so close to an enemy unit can be a big surprise and then placing a big unit of destroyers in the bunker to camp and fire will go very far. The other popular option for a fortification is a Void Shield Generator..
Verviedi, I'd really REALLY like to see what you do without using the War Convocation. My group of gamers are much more casual, much more friendly (but by no means total pushovers) so I need to play in that sweet spot of being competitive in a friendly environment. No large number of scatpack eldar or centurionstar marines here.
I bought up a bunch of the Mechanicus when they first came out for love of the look, but they've been doing nothing more than collecting dust and occasionally making me wonder if they'd serve me better as an ebay lot. Thankfully I'm getting the itch to give them a go, and it'd certainly (selfishly) do me well to see some good players using them without the War Convocation.
I plan on doing more non-Convocation, non-ally games in the future. My store doesn't allow video recording, and it's absolute murder remembering what shot what and what it did, so battle reports are incredibly difficult to make.
I'll play a game with my Skitarii/Cult Mech list after I test out my experimental 21-Crisis-Salute list.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Does the ability to take the Ordinatus Ulator as a LOW make taking a Cult Mechanicus CAD worth it? As opposed to the Congregation.
What a silly question!
I don't have a 40k Mechanicus army atm but I have a 30k one and I just built my Ulator on Saturday. I am wondering if it's worth shelling out for the 40k army just so people stop telling me 30k is overpowered when I laser them from across the battlefield. XD
Unit1126PLL wrote: Does the ability to take the Ordinatus Ulator as a LOW make taking a Cult Mechanicus CAD worth it? As opposed to the Congregation.
What a silly question!
I don't have a 40k Mechanicus army atm but I have a 30k one and I just built my Ulator on Saturday. I am wondering if it's worth shelling out for the 40k army just so people stop telling me 30k is overpowered when I laser them from across the battlefield. XD
Unit1126PLL wrote: Does the ability to take the Ordinatus Ulator as a LOW make taking a Cult Mechanicus CAD worth it? As opposed to the Congregation.
What a silly question!
I don't have a 40k Mechanicus army atm but I have a 30k one and I just built my Ulator on Saturday. I am wondering if it's worth shelling out for the 40k army just so people stop telling me 30k is overpowered when I laser them from across the battlefield. XD
Yeah, I think it is a big misconception that 30k is overpowered to 40k. I have seen a few 30k vs 40k matchups. Most of the time the 40k player won. Though it seems 30k wants to play at the 2500 pts and higher mark imo.
Verviedi, would it be possible to update the opening post with the unit and formation reviews. A lot of stuff isn't even covered and what is are still initial impressions from the release. I'd be happy to help contribute if needed. Thanks!
As Said before I'm about to start a Skitarii army and now i'm stuck in witch Troop choise I should make.
I have read alot on the net but can't decide on what to take, so if someone would share some wisdom, please
Belsibub wrote: As Said before I'm about to start a Skitarii army and now i'm stuck in witch Troop choise I should make.
I have read alot on the net but can't decide on what to take, so if someone would share some wisdom, please
Oh and sorry English aint my native language
Vanguard are better than Rangers in nearly all situations.
See, I'm in disagreement that Vanguard are better than Rangers.
They each have their place.
Rangers really shine when you're fighting enemies that like to hide characters or special/heavy weapons inside of units. A full unit of 10 Rangers with no special weapons is still a pretty scary thing for someone to fight, especially if you get hot dice and start making Precision Shots left and right. Fight the instinct to Precision Shot at the ICs or characters within a unit and instead aim for the juicy special/heavy weapons and the basic soldiers. You can't "Look Out, Sir!" if all the basic guys are dead.
Vanguard come into their own when fighting high Toughness and high Wound critters--as per the wording of Rad-Poisoning, they can actually cause Wounds to things that are a higher Toughness than they actually are able to wound. They also really come into their own when fighting large masses of troops.
I try to go a 1:2 ratio when possible; one full unit of Rangers to two full units of Vanguard.
I know that Vanguard in drop pods is a thing, but with Mont'ka there's now a formation of 3 Valkyrie/Vendetta squadrons that all come in on the same turn us now able to be used. So I personally was looking at x3 Vendetta loaded with six Vanguard each to get them in range and have tank busting capabilities. On the flip side rangers would probably fare better due to having move through cover so they wouldn't have to worry about dangerous terrain tests.
They each have their place, and the Vanguard have a much larger place than Rangers.
Picking out models is a niche and it won't help you against units you're really worried about. And how many sixes to hit does a full unit get on average? 1.4? They'll make their armor save or Look Out Sir anyway. Even in this niche situation, Vanguard can just pile on the wounds and that's just as valuable.
They'd be better at camping objectives if they could get Objective Secured, but that's not an option. They do get Move Through Cover which I actually think is more valuable than Precision Shots.
axisofentropy wrote: They each have their place, and the Vanguard have a much larger place than Rangers.
Picking out models is a niche and it won't help you against units you're really worried about. And how many sixes to hit does a full unit get on average? 1.4?
Surprisingly enough, it will actually help quite a bit--and it opens up avenues that other armies do not necessarily have access to.
They'll make their armor save or Look Out Sir anyway. Even in this niche situation, Vanguard can just pile on the wounds and that's just as valuable.
Galvanic Rifles are S4 AP4 with Rapid Fire and Precision Shots.
Radium Carbines are S3 AP5, with rolls of 6s to Wound causing 2 Wounds that get allocated and saved against separately and being 3 static shots at 18".
Any army where you really worry about things being bundled in like this tends towards being a 2-4 save, with none of it being 5. Galvanic Rifles can at least negate Carapace Armor--something which cannot be said for the Radium Carbines.
Any army where you really worry about things being bundled in like this tends towards being a 2-4 save, with none of it being 5. Galvanic Rifles can at least negate Carapace Armor--something which cannot be said for the Radium Carbines.
what unit with 4+ armor are you actually afraid of?
I'm not a mechanicus player, but, for example, against necrons: the ranger are "safe", being at long range (necrons lack long range weapons) and they are ap4, to kill the warriors.
I mean, it isn't just the ap and the precision shots, it is the range too.
I think it's a big difference.
Against IG, they can kill the sergeants with power weapons, melta bombs etc or the heavy weapons, and at 30".
I'm not saying they are better, but I'm just wondering if the well known fact the rangers are far better is really true or if it is just a trend.
(Everything I said is obviously if you don't have drop pod).
Skitarii can take a single fortification as a part of their CAD. A Vengeance battery with a BS2 battlecannon is only 85 points. I was thinking an AV14 building putting out S8 AP3 pie plates might be handy to have in a pure Skitarii force. Thoughts?
Xeones7 wrote: Can anyone recommend and tactics, unit choices and weapon load outs for a game against tyranids?
As long as you aren't fighting 5 Flyrants, Tyranids are pretty easy prey for us as long as you keep in mind your targets stats. We have a tool in our book(s) to defeat just about everything Tyranids have to throw at us. The biggest concern is probably biovores.
We can shoot them to death, then our CC units are better than theirs. I had a squad of 5 Infiltrators kill half a tyranid army in a 1500 point game, out dueling even tyranid warriors. I felt pretty bad.
vs Tyranids watch out for mawlocs and remember they can only hit bottom floors so keep the infiltrators/rust stalkers off the ground if you can.
Flyrants shoot out str6 so they are basically lawn mowers vs admech BUT they don't handle wounds well so Dune Crawlers with icarus are basically a dead flyrant each volley (especially if twin linked). Tyranids have a really tough time dealing with Knights so they pair well. Avoid the egrubs but slog forward as long as you are avoiding multiple angle flyrants. Feel free to sit back a turn or two.. with that '12 movement you are fine to thin them out then move forward.
Obviously some things I could change around (if it would be preferable to switch Arc Rifles to Arquebus instead, losing the Sniper Rifles on the Scouts, etc), but as I made the list there's 75 points to go and spend. How would you folks best suggest I finish it off? The main plans should be pretty obvious, but if it isn't I can delve into the main details.
Obviously some things I could change around (if it would be preferable to switch Arc Rifles to Arquebus instead, losing the Sniper Rifles on the Scouts, etc), but as I made the list there's 75 points to go and spend. How would you folks best suggest I finish it off? The main plans should be pretty obvious, but if it isn't I can delve into the main details.
Cool list. As you said the sniper scouts imo are wasted points.. just go plain scouts they really don't justify spending points on unless there is a chapter buff going on or something. Why 30 rangers? The arc rifles are exactly the same in the hands of the vanguard but are better in CC due to rad poisoning and will save you 2 pts a model. Also rad guns are really good imo.
Maniple gives you scout which is really nice for getting them to move around but in a lot of missions (hammer and anvil in particular) slogging 60 soldiers up field can be a real bore. Maybe get some transports? Not super common but even like 3-4 rhinos would be really cool.
Right now as it stands your entire list is shut down by a voidshield. Your infantry won't be in range to impact it which only your plasma can unless the mission is dawn of war OR your opponent deploys poorly (the other possibility is you roll a 3 on the strategic warlord table... or does Lias come with that? I think he does. doesn't he?) ok well given what I just realized nevermind.. that is pretty cool I guess the weakness then would be getting seized on with so much infantry hanging in the wind but that is the game we play anyways. That CAN be mitigated by some rhinos though like I recommend!
The Arc Rifles have a better complimentary range. Plus S4 is able to glance lots of rear armor at the very least, so if I need to throw the Vanguard into the Drop Pods I'd be more likely to glance to death in one singular volley. Plus with Lias I can Infiltrate at minimum himself and the Centurions, and with the average roll of two I can Infiltrate a Vanguard squad more than likely. There's a balance going on there.
As for the Voidshield comment...nah. Rending Hurricane Bolters if I stand still (equates .9 HP removed on AV12; I'm good), Arc Rifles being S6, and Calivers being S7 means I'm really wondering how I'm shut down by a singular Void Shield.
On the Rhino comment, I have 3 Drop Pods for any necessary drops. I'm fine with moving the models otherwise.
So prepping for LVO, think I have a solid list that can handle anything, well except psykers but meh ill power through it
Debating though as my war convo has 2 dunecrawlers, trying to optimize loadout. This weekend ran it with 1 Neutron and 1 Icarus which didnt work out too badly considering that shooting at flyers one couldnt shoot, and shooting at ground one had to snap shoot
Thoughs? Double Icarus, double neutron, 1 and 1? Maybe a phosphor or conversion beamer?
Definitely double Icarus, it might only be useful against skimmers and flyers but having them against no flyers is better than not having them against an opponent using flyers. It is the lesser of two evils.
ultimentra wrote: Definitely double Icarus, it might only be useful against skimmers and flyers but having them against no flyers is better than not having them against an opponent using flyers. It is the lesser of two evils.
True which is why I went 1 icarus and 1 neutron, I tried double icarus but they were fairly useless all of my games as no one had flyers or skimmers
ultimentra wrote: Definitely double Icarus, it might only be useful against skimmers and flyers but having them against no flyers is better than not having them against an opponent using flyers. It is the lesser of two evils.
Well the question is how many flyers are we to expect out of the main competitive lists you'll expect.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The Arc Rifles have a better complimentary range. Plus S4 is able to glance lots of rear armor at the very least, so if I need to throw the Vanguard into the Drop Pods I'd be more likely to glance to death in one singular volley. Plus with Lias I can Infiltrate at minimum himself and the Centurions, and with the average roll of two I can Infiltrate a Vanguard squad more than likely. There's a balance going on there.
As for the Voidshield comment...nah. Rending Hurricane Bolters if I stand still (equates .9 HP removed on AV12; I'm good), Arc Rifles being S6, and Calivers being S7 means I'm really wondering how I'm shut down by a singular Void Shield.
On the Rhino comment, I have 3 Drop Pods for any necessary drops. I'm fine with moving the models otherwise.
"let me know what you think of the list"
So I can argue against everything you suggest!
Ok man You know better than me how to play adeptus mechanicus I am sure
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The Arc Rifles have a better complimentary range. Plus S4 is able to glance lots of rear armor at the very least, so if I need to throw the Vanguard into the Drop Pods I'd be more likely to glance to death in one singular volley. Plus with Lias I can Infiltrate at minimum himself and the Centurions, and with the average roll of two I can Infiltrate a Vanguard squad more than likely. There's a balance going on there.
As for the Voidshield comment...nah. Rending Hurricane Bolters if I stand still (equates .9 HP removed on AV12; I'm good), Arc Rifles being S6, and Calivers being S7 means I'm really wondering how I'm shut down by a singular Void Shield.
On the Rhino comment, I have 3 Drop Pods for any necessary drops. I'm fine with moving the models otherwise.
"let me know what you think of the list"
So I can argue against everything you suggest!
Ok man You know better than me how to play adeptus mechanicus I am sure
Wasn't trying to say that haha. Just that some of the criticisms were unfounded.
Hi, I was wondering if anyone has had success with pairing a librarius conclave with the war convocation. I was thinking about using white scars bike libs to confer hit and run, and absorb some shots for the ruststalkers and infiltrators. Also for the extra mobility and buffs, divination and telepathy.
I don't see much death star in my local meta, if it starts coming up I'll probably switch to basically incontrol's list or at least throw in Culexus and keep him in a dirty spot.
TL: DR
anyone use bike librarians with the conclave? If so, please share.
Buzz1991 wrote: Hi, I was wondering if anyone has had success with pairing a librarius conclave with the war convocation. I was thinking about using white scars bike libs to confer hit and run, and absorb some shots for the ruststalkers and infiltrators. Also for the extra mobility and buffs, divination and telepathy.
I don't see much death star in my local meta, if it starts coming up I'll probably switch to basically incontrol's list or at least throw in Culexus and keep him in a dirty spot.
TL: DR
anyone use bike librarians with the conclave? If so, please share.
I have, but as part of my IH Smash+command squad+chaplain and I run IH libbys. Works well for me but then again I am using them in a much tougher unit. I think it could work, but I don't know how reliable it would be with ML1 Libbys. Might work out for ad mech because you want them more for their defensive stats.
Anyone have any good ideas on how to make Electro-Priests work?
I have wan't them as models for a very long time and was so excited to see a Mechanicus release, only to be utterly dissapointed. It is not that they are -that- terrible, but in their codex they are close to garbage. You pay a premium for all their rules, but on a guardsmen body so none really get into play. My biggest problem with them is speed. They are so slow it is painful. I really do love them and want to try them out, but how is an....expensive...unit of guardsmen with 5++ suppose to get around the table?
Anyone have any luck with these guys? I can only think of a few ways to run them.
One being having the Dominus just join them and lead them across the board taking most their fire. I love this visually, but practically it has the problem of being a low unit. I feel it would either be wiped out or by the time you got to anything the unit would be too damaged to matter.
Grey Knights could be one fun plan. Have a librarian with a Fulgurite group warp around and buff their invulnerable save. Thats a 2++ if they do anything. Problem is they cant assault out of warp, so that is more slow movement, and the psyker powers are random so you can't guarantee anything.
Hell, I thought of just sticking Corpuscarii in a drop pod and trying my best. They can shoot the turn they come in and if they survive they can just rush the nearest thing. Personally, I hate using Drop Pods outside space marine lists though.
Anyone been trying anything else or have any ideas? I am staring at these models now and trying desperately to find a proper use for them.
RaptorHunter wrote: Anyone have any good ideas on how to make Electro-Priests work?
I have wan't them as models for a very long time and was so excited to see a Mechanicus release, only to be utterly dissapointed. It is not that they are -that- terrible, but in their codex they are close to garbage. You pay a premium for all their rules, but on a guardsmen body so none really get into play. My biggest problem with them is speed. They are so slow it is painful. I really do love them and want to try them out, but how is an....expensive...unit of guardsmen with 5++ suppose to get around the table?
Anyone have any luck with these guys? I can only think of a few ways to run them.
One being having the Dominus just join them and lead them across the board taking most their fire. I love this visually, but practically it has the problem of being a low unit. I feel it would either be wiped out or by the time you got to anything the unit would be too damaged to matter.
Grey Knights could be one fun plan. Have a librarian with a Fulgurite group warp around and buff their invulnerable save. Thats a 2++ if they do anything. Problem is they cant assault out of warp, so that is more slow movement, and the psyker powers are random so you can't guarantee anything.
Hell, I thought of just sticking Corpuscarii in a drop pod and trying my best. They can shoot the turn they come in and if they survive they can just rush the nearest thing. Personally, I hate using Drop Pods outside space marine lists though.
Anyone been trying anything else or have any ideas? I am staring at these models now and trying desperately to find a proper use for them.
Maybe with the dominus and some inquisition allies? Shoot for inquisition psyker and take the fliers from one of the IAs they get as an option? Or some other psyker with them dom and ideally an assault vehicle. Though maybe a dom and librarius conclave would work if you get invis. They are such a bad unit it is hard to make them good when everything else is better. Can't help but wonder what GW was or wasn't thinking. Sorry if any of this is unclear it is late and I should not be reading and writing posts late at night lol. at least not drunk.
Thanks NorseSig, I'm eventually trying to move my allies from white scars to iron hands, for the fluff and the sweet rules. But I was planning on running 4 lv 2 libs 3 on bikes. Mostly for tanking fire on turn 1, conferring hit and run, maybe grab an objective, and buffs of course.
Whats the consensus with the fortification. I mean the formation rules say wargear "options" and the upgrades for buildings are listed using the word options. I mean it kinda would make sense the dominus would have a pimped out bastion or something.
RaptorHunter wrote: Anyone have any good ideas on how to make Electro-Priests work?
I have wan't them as models for a very long time and was so excited to see a Mechanicus release, only to be utterly dissapointed. It is not that they are -that- terrible, but in their codex they are close to garbage. You pay a premium for all their rules, but on a guardsmen body so none really get into play. My biggest problem with them is speed. They are so slow it is painful. I really do love them and want to try them out, but how is an....expensive...unit of guardsmen with 5++ suppose to get around the table?
Anyone have any luck with these guys? I can only think of a few ways to run them.
One being having the Dominus just join them and lead them across the board taking most their fire. I love this visually, but practically it has the problem of being a low unit. I feel it would either be wiped out or by the time you got to anything the unit would be too damaged to matter.
Grey Knights could be one fun plan. Have a librarian with a Fulgurite group warp around and buff their invulnerable save. Thats a 2++ if they do anything. Problem is they cant assault out of warp, so that is more slow movement, and the psyker powers are random so you can't guarantee anything.
Hell, I thought of just sticking Corpuscarii in a drop pod and trying my best. They can shoot the turn they come in and if they survive they can just rush the nearest thing. Personally, I hate using Drop Pods outside space marine lists though.
Anyone been trying anything else or have any ideas? I am staring at these models now and trying desperately to find a proper use for them.
I've been toying around with the idea myself, at least the fulgerites. Just theoretical.
Brother Captain Stern comes with Sanctuary so that is the only way to guarantee the inv bump. I'd also want to get a priest in there via sisters or IG for the reroll of saves. Delivery would be the tricky part, already looking at 3 detachments but land raider or open topped IG superheavy are options.
Well I have been storming a list. I'm trying to take advantage of the White Scars tactics along with a conclave.
Also I like the idea of an un-killable unit counting for canticles, the defense line.
This is also more tailored for local meta, and there aren't many death stars.
Librarius Conclave (White Scars)
- ML2 Lib on bike 110 Divination
- ML2 Lib on bike 110 Divination
- ML2 Lib, auspex on bike 115 Telepathy
- ML2 Lib on bike 110 Telepathy
Buzz1991 wrote: Well I have been storming a list. I'm trying to take advantage of the White Scars tactics along with a conclave.
Also I like the idea of an un-killable unit counting for canticles, the defense line.
This is also more tailored for local meta, and there aren't many death stars.
Librarius Conclave (White Scars)
- ML2 Lib on bike 110 Divination
- ML2 Lib on bike 110 Divination (Knight Destroyer)
- ML2 Lib, auspex on bike 115 Telepathy (Infiltrators)
- ML2 Lib on bike 110 Telepathy
This looks pretty good, but I wonder if it is worth bothering with the twin icarus. The TI really isn't very good. I feel like one of the other two options would be better. Not sure if you need a 4th Lib. You might want to drop one for another dunecrawler and maybe drop the leftover into the knight or maybe instead try and find some way to work in some transports. Again, I don't have a lot of experience with the ad mech yet. I have played some games with them but not enough to be an expert.
Yeah I'm really trying to take as much advantage of biked lib's as I can so I can be more flexible with my canticle usage.
Also just to straight deter 1-2 powers, namely fortune and or invisibility.
It just seems like having another crawler is kinda overkill. I think of it as 1.5 anti air units, and from playin nids I'm a sucker for anything TL.
As for the transports, I am hoping to achieve a more trapdoor spider type list opposed to an aggressive army.
But I haven't played anything with them yet, I'm working toward a list in an escalation league.
Buzz1991 wrote: Yeah I'm really trying to take as much advantage of biked lib's as I can so I can be more flexible with my canticle usage.
Also just to straight deter 1-2 powers, namely fortune and or invisibility.
It just seems like having another crawler is kinda overkill. I think of it as 1.5 anti air units, and from playin nids I'm a sucker for anything TL.
As for the transports, I am hoping to achieve a more trapdoor spider type list opposed to an aggressive army.
But I haven't played anything with them yet, I'm working toward a list in an escalation league.
okay i get you. I am curious. Don't have my rules sheet handy for the war convocation. Does the fortification get it's upgrades free as well? If it does might be worth freeing some points for something with a little bit better defense and firepower. Though I guess what you have may be fine. I just don't know what your local meta is.
Buzz1991 wrote: Yeah I'm really trying to take as much advantage of biked lib's as I can so I can be more flexible with my canticle usage.
Also just to straight deter 1-2 powers, namely fortune and or invisibility.
It just seems like having another crawler is kinda overkill. I think of it as 1.5 anti air units, and from playin nids I'm a sucker for anything TL.
As for the transports, I am hoping to achieve a more trapdoor spider type list opposed to an aggressive army.
But I haven't played anything with them yet, I'm working toward a list in an escalation league.
okay i get you. I am curious. Don't have my rules sheet handy for the war convocation. Does the fortification get it's upgrades free as well? If it does might be worth freeing some points for something with a little bit better defense and firepower. Though I guess what you have may be fine. I just don't know what your local meta is.
I don't believe the fortifications get upgraded. And the aegis cannot be destroyed because its technically terrain.
Locally its mostly:
-DE venom spam
-Eldar with alot of bikes and skimmers
-Blood Angels, 3 stormravens with Dante and assault jump infantry
-Necrons the usual way/ transports and wraiths
- And Tau with hella markerlights (god I hate those, I play FMC Nid's)
So I just have learnt that my buddy who is also starting has settled on AdMech (Cult Mechanus mainly, as a war convocation?) with an allied unit of DKoK. I play necron's and have a large army with most models at my disposal. I was hoping for a quick summary of what to look out for and strengths and weaknesses that I can play around ect. This has all probably been stated already many times but I am sure you guys can understand me not wanting to scour 58 pages of tactics.
So I just have learnt that my buddy who is also starting has settled on AdMech (Cult Mechanus mainly, as a war convocation?) with an allied unit of DKoK.
If not War Convocation, then I think Cohort Cybernetica formation would do well with DKoK. Although don't DKoK do best on their own?
I think its only a small allied unit of DKoK, just for the aesthetics. Mainly worried about the War Convocation and IK's. Is mass gauss the way to go? or spam Heavy Destroyers? or ignore the knight and focus the rest of his army and try to capture objectives?
Klowny wrote: I think its only a small allied unit of DKoK, just for the aesthetics. Mainly worried about the War Convocation and IK's. Is mass gauss the way to go? or spam Heavy Destroyers? or ignore the knight and focus the rest of his army and try to capture objectives?
As a Necron player I'm going to tell immediately that spamming Gauss will NOT kill vehicles. The less and bigger vehicles the opponent brings, it's okay. However, Necrons are the ONE army you can just bring lots of Rhinos and Razorbacks and do well against, because there's no dedicated AT on the troops.
With the more...artillery setup, Necrons can be brutal against anything. Doomsday Arks aren't just junk now, and Heavy Destroyers synergize extremely well with Stalkers, which help the Arks too. Just add Doom Scythes and you're golden. That's a different conversation though and not really something for this thread.
Klowny wrote: I think its only a small allied unit of DKoK, just for the aesthetics. Mainly worried about the War Convocation and IK's. Is mass gauss the way to go? or spam Heavy Destroyers? or ignore the knight and focus the rest of his army and try to capture objectives?
As a Necron player I'm going to tell immediately that spamming Gauss will NOT kill vehicles. The less and bigger vehicles the opponent brings, it's okay. However, Necrons are the ONE army you can just bring lots of Rhinos and Razorbacks and do well against, because there's no dedicated AT on the troops.
With the more...artillery setup, Necrons can be brutal against anything. Doomsday Arks aren't just junk now, and Heavy Destroyers synergize extremely well with Stalkers, which help the Arks too. Just add Doom Scythes and you're golden. That's a different conversation though and not really something for this thread.
Sorry, I mainly was coming here to get a rough rundown on the war convo itself and how it plays out. I know it gets free upgrades but I was more hoping to get some insights as to what it does well and what it is weak against? Is it slow (can I outmanouver it and play to objectives) only powerfull when techpriest is alive (assassinate), good/weak against vehicles/flyers etc.
Or is it more subject to the actual units it takes?
Bring an Ordinatus Minoris Ullator against gladius marines. The deathray cannon makes them spread out in their deployment or they melt, which allows you to focus on the MSU piecemeal.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Bring an Ordinatus Minoris Ullator against gladius marines. The deathray cannon makes them spread out in their deployment or they melt, which allows you to focus on the MSU piecemeal.
I love this suggestion, lol. ike an Ordinatus is something you can just throw into a list. lol
Unit1126PLL wrote: Bring an Ordinatus Minoris Ullator against gladius marines. The deathray cannon makes them spread out in their deployment or they melt, which allows you to focus on the MSU piecemeal.
I love this suggestion, lol. ike an Ordinatus is something you can just throw into a list. lol
Isn't it? I think the minimum points to field one is below 1500, since all you need is a Magos Dominus and 2 Kataphrons. So like, 1290 points, IIRC, for the whole detachment.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Bring an Ordinatus Minoris Ullator against gladius marines. The deathray cannon makes them spread out in their deployment or they melt, which allows you to focus on the MSU piecemeal.
I love this suggestion, lol. ike an Ordinatus is something you can just throw into a list. lol
Isn't it? I think the minimum points to field one is below 1500, since all you need is a Magos Dominus and 2 Kataphrons. So like, 1290 points, IIRC, for the whole detachment.
EDIT: Er, hm. I forgot the price on Kataphrons.
I meant more in terms of the fact that its a huge friggin expensive FW model. While, yes, it can be fielded at that level, I just found it funny to throw it out there as the strategy to beat gladius. As if it's just a tool in the mechanicus tool box. While it would definitely get the job done, it just seems unrealistic as the strategy to help him beat gladius. That's like saying to bring a reaver or warhound titan. Sure it'll work, but is it really a realistic way to plan your games? My feeling is that if mechanicus needs an ordinatus to beat something like gladius strike force, then that speaks to the serious lackings in the mechanicus unit choices.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Bring an Ordinatus Minoris Ullator against gladius marines. The deathray cannon makes them spread out in their deployment or they melt, which allows you to focus on the MSU piecemeal.
I love this suggestion, lol. ike an Ordinatus is something you can just throw into a list. lol
Isn't it? I think the minimum points to field one is below 1500, since all you need is a Magos Dominus and 2 Kataphrons. So like, 1290 points, IIRC, for the whole detachment.
EDIT: Er, hm. I forgot the price on Kataphrons.
I meant more in terms of the fact that its a huge friggin expensive FW model. While, yes, it can be fielded at that level, I just found it funny to throw it out there as the strategy to beat gladius. As if it's just a tool in the mechanicus tool box. While it would definitely get the job done, it just seems unrealistic as the strategy to help him beat gladius. That's like saying to bring a reaver or warhound titan. Sure it'll work, but is it really a realistic way to plan your games? My feeling is that if mechanicus needs an ordinatus to beat something like gladius strike force, then that speaks to the serious lackings in the mechanicus unit choices.
Well they don't need it, but it makes it easy.
And I have one, so it can't be that rare - I'm a college student who is neither especially rich nor especially ... special.
If you own a $400 model that came out that recently and you are a college student, you are definitely that special. Most college students don't have that kind of dough to spend on resin toys.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Bring an Ordinatus Minoris Ullator against gladius marines. The deathray cannon makes them spread out in their deployment or they melt, which allows you to focus on the MSU piecemeal.
You've recommended this in almost every thread related to ad mech
Which is a horrible suggestion, its an expensive FW model which will most liklely be banned in most major tournament settings, which may not even be 40K legal.
Hell might as well just start suggesting Titans at that point, which are equally absurd.
Dramagod2 wrote: If you own a $400 model that came out that recently and you are a college student, you are definitely that special. Most college students don't have that kind of dough to spend on resin toys.
Unless you just got your student loan refund check and are using it to buy stuff you shouldn't I remember my sophomore year in the dorms, the guy across the hall from me bought a stereo and GIGANTIC speakers for like $1000 from his refund. Luckily our tastes in music were similar!
Unit1126PLL wrote: Bring an Ordinatus Minoris Ullator against gladius marines. The deathray cannon makes them spread out in their deployment or they melt, which allows you to focus on the MSU piecemeal.
You've recommended this in almost every thread related to ad mech
Which is a horrible suggestion, its an expensive FW model which will most liklely be banned in most major tournament settings, which may not even be 40K legal.
Hell might as well just start suggesting Titans at that point, which are equally absurd.
It is already 40k legal as a Lord of War from Cult Mechanicus per the model's description on the Forge World website. As for banned in tournament settings, I pity the fool who still thinks 40k is a tournament capable game.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Bring an Ordinatus Minoris Ullator against gladius marines. The deathray cannon makes them spread out in their deployment or they melt, which allows you to focus on the MSU piecemeal.
You've recommended this in almost every thread related to ad mech
Which is a horrible suggestion, its an expensive FW model which will most liklely be banned in most major tournament settings, which may not even be 40K legal.
Hell might as well just start suggesting Titans at that point, which are equally absurd.
It is already 40k legal as a Lord of War from Cult Mechanicus per the model's description on the Forge World website. As for banned in tournament settings, I pity the fool who still thinks 40k is a tournament capable game.
Unless you take a CAD, Cult mechanicus has no LOW slot
Funny they mention skitarii as they have no LOW slot either and its impossible for them to make a CAD as they have no HQ.
Still its a terrible suggestion to the question's people are answering, people are actually looking for realistic advice
Unit1126PLL wrote: Bring an Ordinatus Minoris Ullator against gladius marines. The deathray cannon makes them spread out in their deployment or they melt, which allows you to focus on the MSU piecemeal.
You've recommended this in almost every thread related to ad mech
Which is a horrible suggestion, its an expensive FW model which will most liklely be banned in most major tournament settings, which may not even be 40K legal.
Hell might as well just start suggesting Titans at that point, which are equally absurd.
It is already 40k legal as a Lord of War from Cult Mechanicus per the model's description on the Forge World website. As for banned in tournament settings, I pity the fool who still thinks 40k is a tournament capable game.
Unless you take a CAD, Cult mechanicus has no LOW slot
Funny they mention skitarii as they have no LOW slot either and its impossible for them to make a CAD as they have no HQ.
Still its a terrible suggestion to the question's people are answering, people are actually looking for realistic advice
So take a token CAD, this gun is worth it.
I still don't see why it is unrealistic. Shouldn't a tactics discussion include every unit available?
Unit1126PLL wrote: Bring an Ordinatus Minoris Ullator against gladius marines. The deathray cannon makes them spread out in their deployment or they melt, which allows you to focus on the MSU piecemeal.
You've recommended this in almost every thread related to ad mech
Which is a horrible suggestion, its an expensive FW model which will most liklely be banned in most major tournament settings, which may not even be 40K legal.
Hell might as well just start suggesting Titans at that point, which are equally absurd.
It is already 40k legal as a Lord of War from Cult Mechanicus per the model's description on the Forge World website. As for banned in tournament settings, I pity the fool who still thinks 40k is a tournament capable game.
Unless you take a CAD, Cult mechanicus has no LOW slot
Funny they mention skitarii as they have no LOW slot either and its impossible for them to make a CAD as they have no HQ.
Still its a terrible suggestion to the question's people are answering, people are actually looking for realistic advice
So take a token CAD, this gun is worth it.
I still don't see why it is unrealistic. Shouldn't a tactics discussion include every unit available?
I just don't think at this point that it can be considered a normal playable unit for terms of tactics discussion. I can understand how if you have one you want to field it. I'm sure I would be the same. But to most people, its just not a realistic suggestion because they can not feasibly purchase/field the model. It's akin to suggesting the use of a titan.
lol, I just don't think you're seeing this from our perspective. If you spend 400 over time on an army thats understandable and a lot different than spending 400 in one shot on one giant model that's a SHV LOW. It doesn't have to do with game size. It's about the size of a single purchase. I know I spend a lot on my hobby, but Im very limited a to how much I can spend at a time. 400 in one shot is not realistic for most people unless theyve saved up for a while.
ON another note, since it seems you've had experience fielding one, I'm curious to hear about how they do on the table. I know there is a lot of potential damage output but how much damage do you actually see it do on average? Also, how survivable is it? I'd imagine it draws a lot of fire.
So you're saying you can't start savng that trickle of 40k money for the next few months? That is what I did starting as soon as I saw the pictures of it last March or whenever it was.
Using it has been strange. I have been using it with the 30k list mind, but people have been afraid to shoot at it because of the Dispersion Shield, instead focusing on the lesser superheavies and support units.
This is the point. It will always be "a strange thing to use". It just does not fit in regular games (below 3000 points as I can see) and if you do not regularly play Apoc (wich for the most part we don't) your Ordinatus will mostly sit at the shelf. And you risk to be regarded as a WAAC player by your friends if you will bring it to smaller games as well. So, I agree that it is the same thing as Titans are: they are cool, they are fun to have but they are mostly useless for a regular gamer.
This is the point. It will always be "a strange thing to use". It just does not fit in regular games (below 3000 points as I can see) and if you do not regularly play Apoc (wich for the most part we don't) your Ordinatus will mostly sit at the shelf. And you risk to be regarded as a WAAC player by your friends if you will bring it to smaller games as well. So, I agree that it is the same thing as Titans are: they are cool, they are fun to have but they are mostly useless for a regular gamer.
So far people around here have told me it was fine and the last game was 2k. I am building a Centurio Ordinatus army around it so I doubt it will sit on the shelf, unless I start not playing at all but in my circle of friends that is extremely unlikely. I have another game with it in a bit, so we will see!
Unit1126PLL wrote: So you're saying you can't start savng that trickle of 40k money for the next few months? That is what I did starting as soon as I saw the pictures of it last March or whenever it was.
I could save for it but I know I wouldn't get to use it much so to me its not really worth the investment. Plus, I don't play 30k so until AdMech for 40k are fleshed out a little better, I wouldn't feel good about sinking that kind of money into a model like that.
people have been afraid to shoot at it because of the Dispersion Shield, instead focusing on the lesser superheavies and support units.
So you are fielding the ordinatus along with other SHVs in 1000-2000 pt games? I'd be curious to see your lists. Seems like overkill.
Unit1126PLL wrote: So you're saying you can't start savng that trickle of 40k money for the next few months? That is what I did starting as soon as I saw the pictures of it last March or whenever it was.
I could save for it but I know I wouldn't get to use it much so to me its not really worth the investment. Plus, I don't play 30k so until AdMech for 40k are fleshed out a little better, I wouldn't feel good about sinking that kind of money into a model like that.
people have been afraid to shoot at it because of the Dispersion Shield, instead focusing on the lesser superheavies and support units.
So you are fielding the ordinatus along with other SHVs in 1000-2000 pt games? I'd be curious to see your lists. Seems like overkill.
The Ordinatus works for 40k armies too. As for my list, I can PM you a link to my normal 3k list for the campaign we are playing and attached is a 2250 list for the game tonight, if you want.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The reason for the PM is it is in my Google drive.
Unit1126PLL wrote: So you're saying you can't start savng that trickle of 40k money for the next few months? That is what I did starting as soon as I saw the pictures of it last March or whenever it was
That is not the point, its not a realistic suggestion, its overkill suggesting a unit that costs over 1000 points that most likely wont see the table or people wont play against in normal 1000-2000 point games.
Again its akin to suggesting to just add a Titan and you'll be fine, its a non answer that wont apply to most people.
The points you said you play doesnt appear what a lot of people around here, most are in the 1850 range and the Ordinatus is over half of that
I think you're missing the point. No one is saying you can't talk about them. I'd like to hear more about how they play. We were just pointing out that in that specific scenario where advice was being requested, the suggestion of an ordinatus, while not incorrect or tactically unsound, may not be the most practical of choices in terms of helping him solve his issue. This is due to the reasons cited above, (high model cost, high point cost, lack of accessibility for most gamers) it's not a bad suggestion, just probably not the one thats going to help him solves his problem in real life.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, in terms of using it with AdMech in 40k, I understand that it is allowed, I'm not arguing its legality, just it's place in the game or whether or not its a good use of money/points at the moment. My personal opinion is that, when war convocation is taken out of the mix, until AdMech is combined, they just don't synergize well enough to need that model. They are more in need of a transport. Once a new codex comes out or an interesting IA list that puts everything together in a way that works that may change, but right now, everything on the menu is a little too a la carte for my taste.
Anyways for my war convo for LVO i dropped a dunecrawler (had 2) and made my ranger squad minimum and added a VSG. Now the fortification is being taken as a part of the Cult Mech detachment, does it count as a unit for canticles and thus benefit from it (stealth/shrouded for the building)?
Another dumb question....
I have armed my Ruststalkers with Razor and Claw. Can my Princeps have 2x Blades?
If my Princeps have Razor and Claw, can I still arm him with another Claw and a dataspike?
Belsibub wrote: Another dumb question....
I have armed my Ruststalkers with Razor and Claw. Can my Princeps have 2x Blades?
If my Princeps have Razor and Claw, can I still arm him with another Claw and a dataspike?
What is the optimal Princeps loadout?
1. Only if you will give them to a whole squad: "The entire squad may replace their transonic razors, chordclaws and mindscrambler grenades with two transonic blades" (here and below quotations are taken from "Codex: Scitarii").
2.1. No, you can have only one Claw at him: either with other squad or if the whole squad is equipped with transonic blades "A Ruststalker Princeps with two transonic blades may also take a chordclaw".
2.2. Yes, you can have a dataspike regardless of other equipment -- "The Ruststalker Princeps may take a prehensile dataspike".
3. As for me default one (Claw, Razor, grenades and a dataspike) is the best. Two blades just don't add as much as they require us to give up (mainly grenades).
WrentheFaceless wrote: Anyways for my war convo for LVO i dropped a dunecrawler (had 2) and made my ranger squad minimum and added a VSG. Now the fortification is being taken as a part of the Cult Mech detachment, does it count as a unit for canticles and thus benefit from it (stealth/shrouded for the building)?
Yeah, but you don't get additional void shields for free. Unless the format overrides that of course!
Beginning the mass edit of the OP by cleaning up the unit entries. Adding in appraisals of the formations and more cleanup tomorrow. Current edits include removing the overly-excited feel of the entries, and making the information more up-to-date.
Wilson wrote: Yeah, but you don't get additional void shields for free. Unless the format overrides that of course!
I think you would to be honest.
Unless I'm mistaken, I think that one of the two detachments can take a fortification as part of it. If this is correct, then it would be included under the 'all units in this formation' clause, in the same way the IK does.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, they both can.
So if you wanted to buy two VSGs, you have 6 void shields to cover your entire army
WrentheFaceless wrote: Anyways for my war convo for LVO i dropped a dunecrawler (had 2) and made my ranger squad minimum and added a VSG. Now the fortification is being taken as a part of the Cult Mech detachment, does it count as a unit for canticles and thus benefit from it (stealth/shrouded for the building)?
Yeah, but you don't get additional void shields for free. Unless the format overrides that of course!
Oh yea fully aware that the upgrades arent free, but its good protection against the alpha strikes that lists have these days
Wilson wrote: Yeah, but you don't get additional void shields for free. Unless the format overrides that of course!
I think you would to be honest.
Unless I'm mistaken, I think that one of the two detachments can take a fortification as part of it. If this is correct, then it would be included under the 'all units in this formation' clause, in the same way the IK does.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, they both can.
So if you wanted to buy two VSGs, you have 6 void shields to cover your entire army
Sure, but 2 shield generators is a bit overkill, and 200 points of less actually killing power
Wilson wrote: Yeah, but you don't get additional void shields for free. Unless the format overrides that of course!
I think you would to be honest.
Unless I'm mistaken, I think that one of the two detachments can take a fortification as part of it. If this is correct, then it would be included under the 'all units in this formation' clause, in the same way the IK does.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, they both can.
So if you wanted to buy two VSGs, you have 6 void shields to cover your entire army
The Skitarii one is not a Detachment but a Formation. It can't buy a VSG.
Wilson wrote: Yeah, but you don't get additional void shields for free. Unless the format overrides that of course!
I think you would to be honest.
Unless I'm mistaken, I think that one of the two detachments can take a fortification as part of it. If this is correct, then it would be included under the 'all units in this formation' clause, in the same way the IK does.
I don't think the void shields would be free. The War Convocation specifically says that all "weapons and wargear options taken by units in theis formation, including any Relics of Mars or Arcana Mechanicum, are free. The problem is that void shields along with other building upgrades are not weapon and wargear options. You could probably argue more for weapon upgrades on other buildings but I know that when you buy a building, any upgrades like void shields or an escape hatch are not covered because they are not weapon and wargear options. They are building upgrades.
Wilson wrote: Yeah, but you don't get additional void shields for free. Unless the format overrides that of course!
I think you would to be honest.
Unless I'm mistaken, I think that one of the two detachments can take a fortification as part of it. If this is correct, then it would be included under the 'all units in this formation' clause, in the same way the IK does.
I don't think the void shields would be free. The War Convocation specifically says that all "weapons and wargear options taken by units in theis formation, including any Relics of Mars or Arcana Mechanicum, are free. The problem is that void shields along with other building upgrades are not weapon and wargear options. You could probably argue more for weapon upgrades on other buildings but I know that when you buy a building, any upgrades like void shields or an escape hatch are not covered because they are not weapon and wargear options. They are building upgrades.
Even so the War Convocation should allow for enough room to take a building or two and it's upgrades considering all the things you get for free.
Which reminds me, what is the best knight configuration for this formation?
Wilson wrote: Yeah, but you don't get additional void shields for free. Unless the format overrides that of course!
I think you would to be honest.
Unless I'm mistaken, I think that one of the two detachments can take a fortification as part of it. If this is correct, then it would be included under the 'all units in this formation' clause, in the same way the IK does.
I don't think the void shields would be free. The War Convocation specifically says that all "weapons and wargear options taken by units in theis formation, including any Relics of Mars or Arcana Mechanicum, are free. The problem is that void shields along with other building upgrades are not weapon and wargear options. You could probably argue more for weapon upgrades on other buildings but I know that when you buy a building, any upgrades like void shields or an escape hatch are not covered because they are not weapon and wargear options. They are building upgrades.
Even so the War Convocation should allow for enough room to take a building or two and it's upgrades considering all the things you get for free.
Which reminds me, what is the best knight configuration for this formation?
Even so the War Convocation should allow for enough room to take a building or two and it's upgrades considering all the things you get for free.
Which reminds me, what is the best knight configuration for this formation?
Agreed, definitely doable, just not free. As for the knight, a crusade is always a good choice as they can lay down a lot of firepower, but it also depends on what you're looking for as "best" is hard to pick. They all do different things well. I would first determine what you need help with in your list and then choose the knight that best fits that role. Also, knights are often better fire magnets than they are offensive beasts which in the war convo is a really good thing as the other units are a tad squishy if you don't have the right canticle at the moment. If you don't need all the dakka from the crusader, I would also recommnend the Acheron as the war convo doesnt have a lot of ignores cover and I have personally gotten some good mileage out of it. I just got the Atropos and I'm looking forward ot using it in the convo as its especially fluffy. As I said though, its really more about the holes you need filled in your list.
To add they make them basically twin linked, but the target has to be within 18" and have LoS to the Dominus and then it only counts against that unit.
I've got a few games under my belt as an Admech player and I have had mixed results.
First game 1500pts I played against Nids and tried the War Convo(wanted to see how powerful it was) - I won by turn 3.
2nd Game 3000pts I used the war convo in an epic doubles game - Salamanders and Warconvo vs Eldar and Dark Eldar - Game went full length. We were playing purge the alien. We won by 4 kp.
3rd game 1850 Vanguard deployment, Maelstrom - last night - A tourny player at my FLGS wanted to play me with his tournament list. I asked what he was bringing - Decurion - W/CCB, Royal Court (Zandrek, Oberon, Orikan), DCult(tooled up Dlord), Harvest w/4 Wraiths.
- I'm like, okay, WarConvo it is.
He had a deathstar with the wraiths, Oberon, Orikan. His Dlord had the veil and was with 10 warriors, Zandrek was with immortals.
I took Plasma cannons on 2 squads of KatD's. 3plasma guns on both rangers and vanguard squads. Vanguards had pater radium. Kastelans had all phospher blasters, datasmith has rainment. Onager has neturon cannon and all upgrades. Infiltrators have tasers, alpha has phoenix. Rust have the mask and nade, claws, razors. Knight was the crusader with Battle cannon, melta, str8 missiles.
I couldn't kill a thing. I was terrified of the deathstar and focused too much firepower on it. The vanguards fought CCB and got locked in combat. They were grinding it down though.
He did his deepstrike ghost move and put the deathstar in my deployment zone.
We got to end of round 2 by the time the FLGS was closing. I managed to get 2 vp's, he had none. But if the game continued i have no doubt he would have won.
Dice hammer was in play. I was failing all my saves. He was making all his RP.
Nice reps. And the usual advice to play against Necrons is: "Do your missions, don't try to kill". They are super durable with all that saves-after-saves...
I was wondering what the consensus was on wargear for the Tech Priest Dominus. He will be either accompanying Kataphron Destroyers or helping to fix Onager Dunecrawlers.
As a second point, I have just bought three more Ironstriders and was wondering the best loadout for them seeing as I already have three taser lance variants. I was contemplating three more lances, or the aquebuses. Any opinions would be appreciated.
I was wondering what the consensus was on wargear for the Tech Priest Dominus. He will be either accompanying Kataphron Destroyers or helping to fix Onager Dunecrawlers.
As a second point, I have just bought three more Ironstriders and was wondering the best loadout for them seeing as I already have three taser lance variants. I was contemplating three more lances, or the aquebuses. Any opinions would be appreciated.
I don't know if there's a consensus on Dominus wargear. With grav destroyers, I give him the Cognis relic and sometimes a stasis field.
I don't think it's possible to have too many Dragoons with lances. I also think they combine very well with multiple Imperial Knights if you can afford all that plastic.
Sicarian Infiltrators
Flechette Blasters and Taser Goads, 4x Sicarian Infiltrator
Infiltrator Princeps
Conversion field, Digital weapons, Phosphoenix
Sicarian Ruststalkers
4x Sicarian Ruststalker, Transonic razor, Chordclaw, and Mindscrambler Grenades
Ruststalker Princeps
Conversion field, Digital weapons, The Omniscient Mask
3rd game 1850 Vanguard deployment, Maelstrom - last night - A tourny player at my FLGS wanted to play me with his tournament list. I asked what he was bringing - Decurion - W/CCB, Royal Court (Zandrek, Oberon, Orikan), DCult(tooled up Dlord), Harvest w/4 Wraiths.
- I'm like, okay, WarConvo it is.
He had a deathstar with the wraiths, Oberon, Orikan. His Dlord had the veil and was with 10 warriors, Zandrek was with immortals.
I took Plasma cannons on 2 squads of KatD's. 3plasma guns on both rangers and vanguard squads. Vanguards had pater radium. Kastelans had all phospher blasters, datasmith has rainment. Onager has neturon cannon and all upgrades. Infiltrators have tasers, alpha has phoenix. Rust have the mask and nade, claws, razors. Knight was the crusader with Battle cannon, melta, str8 missiles.
I couldn't kill a thing. I was terrified of the deathstar and focused too much firepower on it. The vanguards fought CCB and got locked in combat. They were grinding it down though.
He did his deepstrike ghost move and put the deathstar in my deployment zone.
We got to end of round 2 by the time the FLGS was closing. I managed to get 2 vp's, he had none. But if the game continued i have no doubt he would have won.
Dice hammer was in play. I was failing all my saves. He was making all his RP.
How do you handle necrons as Admech?
I'm sorry what was his plan? why would he put slow moving independent characters with fast moving wraiths? Seems it would slow the wraiths down quite a lot. I understand dropping them into the backline, but once there and out of first combat they are getting separated. Generally the D/Lord is with the wraiths as he can keep up, and giving the wraiths reroll's on everything is handy, plus the obligatory warscythes/void reaper makes the unit hit hard. Also what was his CCB doing? From memory it isn't an independent character (could be wrong don't have my codex at hand) so it would be floating about stabbing at things or did he have it with the wraiths?
Out of curiosity has anyone ever tried running a Skitarii Armored Company? I think it would be a decently strong and a very unique take on the Skitarii forces that I have seen. I saw someone mention this idea awhile back on here and decided to give my own take on a list themed after this, let me know what you guys think:
Swara wrote: I would drop 3 of those Onagars and put those points towards Dragoons. Dragoons are amazing and you could field 10 for the cost of 3 Onagars.
this. Also I still believe Dragoons pair well with Imperial Knights tho I haven't seen anyone try it yet.
Hiyo AdMech players, was wanting your thoughts on a more themed/model driven army list. Disclaimer; model-wise I'm not a fan of Kataphrons but love all the other AdMech stuff, Kastelans and Electro Priests are my favorite AdMech models by far. With that said;
2000 Points
Skitarii Maniple
Vanguard (10) w/ three Arc Rifles
Vanguard (10) w/ three Arc Rifles
Onager Dunecrawlers (2) w/ Icarus Arrays, Cognis Heavy Stubbers
Cohort Cybernetica
Tech Priest Dominus w/ Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land, Eradication Ray, Macrostubber, Refractor Field
Six Kastelan Robots w/ Twin-Linked Heavy Phosphor Blaster, Heavy Phosphor Blaster
Two Cybernetica Datasmiths, one w/ Raiment of the Technomartyr
Just an early list I came up with based on buying two of the AdMech Getting Started boxes - $100 savings per box here! - and my favorite Cult Mechanicus models. Not supposed to be super competitive, but I expect with the relics it should at least be decent and cover most of my bases decently? More specifically, does anyone have experience with the Cohort Cybernetica and Numinous Conclave? I know Electro Priests aren't stellar but I'm sold on them regardless, curious how the army would play though.
Caederes wrote: More specifically, does anyone have experience with the Cohort Cybernetica and Numinous Conclave? I know Electro Priests aren't stellar but I'm sold on them regardless, curious how the army would play though.
Cohort Cybernetica is moderately competitive with the right relics. I'm building one after Adepticon.
Electro-priests are the worst unit in either AdMech codex.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Kataphrons and vanguard in the pods taking out high priority targets or dropping mid field or near objectives for firing positions.
Makes sense. I would be tempted to arm those rangers with an arc pistol, 2 arc rifles, and the skull of nicola, for 6 haywire attacks against a target of your choice when deploying by pod. I've found the arquebus to be horrible.
Swara wrote: I would drop 3 of those Onagars and put those points towards Dragoons. Dragoons are amazing and you could field 10 for the cost of 3 Onagars.
Which 3 Onagers would you drop, any loadout in particular?
Swara wrote: I would drop 3 of those Onagars and put those points towards Dragoons. Dragoons are amazing and you could field 10 for the cost of 3 Onagars.
Which 3 Onagers would you drop, any loadout in particular?
My local meta is light on flyers, so I would drop the anti-air personally. YMMV. I built a similar list, but i dropped on vanguard as well. Only running 2x dragoons of 3 and the onagers all have the neutron with manipulater and cognis. I also have some upgrades on my vanguards. I have yet to play the list yet. Don't know when I will get the chance. 2k points limit. I love arc rifles too much to give them up lol.
Swara wrote: I would drop 3 of those Onagars and put those points towards Dragoons. Dragoons are amazing and you could field 10 for the cost of 3 Onagars.
Which 3 Onagers would you drop, any loadout in particular?
I would drop 1 Icarus and the phosphor blasters add in 1 or two with Neutron Lasers. Phosphor I don't see as being all that useful, especially with most of your units being able to bypass one point of cover on their own.
I would try to split up the onagars if you can with another formation or something, having all that firepower in one group is sometimes overkill.
Ok, so I've been thinking about my Skitarii and want to go armored Skitarii... at first I thought about doing the flesh tearers supplement to get 6 rhinos or drop pods.. but it feels too dirty and not fluffy enough...
soo - I'm thinking of just doing all armor with in Skitarii faction -
1850
2 Squads of Vanguard with arc rifles
1 Squad of Vanguard with Plasma Cavaliers
1 Squad of Vanguard with Basic rad rifles
2 squads of 4 Dragoons
3 Onagers with the str 10 blasts
1 Onager with anti air
1 Magaera Knight
Swara wrote: Has anyone played an armoured skitarii?
13 Vehicles - I could easily use drop pods.. but I feel so dirty when I do...
I actually played a lot of armored skitarii at 1,000pts using an unbound list (flesh tearers are too mainstream and also I don't wanna buy the codex) using a similar idea of fast rhinos and vanguard inside:
Dominus Maniple:
Tech Priest Domius with Conversion Field
Vanguard Squad of 5 with Plasma Caviler and Omni-spex
Onager w/ Neutron Laser
Unbound list:
Skitarii Vanguard squad w/ 3 Arc Rifles and Omnispex
Skitarii Vanguard squad w/ 3 Arc Rifles and Omnispex
Onager Dune Crawler w/ Neutron Laser
Ironstrider w/ Taser
BA Rhino w/ Dozer Blades
Ba Rhino W/ Dozer Blades
Ba Razorback w/ TL Plasma Rifle and Lascannon
___
I played this a lot against a bunch of different opponents and I have to say I really like it. The rhinos give the squishy vanguard enough protection to last for a few turns and the speed to move up the board to boot. They have taken down quite a lot because of their swiftness. They do tend to die when rhinos explode and do get pretty stranded, but I can say they are miles better than tactical marines in rhinos.
If your ballsy enough to try unbound, I say give it a shot!
I completely forgot about the Dominus Maniple -
That would allow me to get another Crawler in and a Dominus, who I love and hope they combine the books here soon so he can be my HQ.
That would give me 5 duncrawlers all by themselves - one with icarus - a dominus, and vanguard and dragoons.. I know vanguard are squishy, but I think with enough dragoons running in front they can be sheltered a bit.
Swara wrote: I completely forgot about the Dominus Maniple -
That would allow me to get another Crawler in and a Dominus, who I love and hope they combine the books here soon so he can be my HQ.
That would give me 5 duncrawlers all by themselves - one with icarus - a dominus, and vanguard and dragoons.. I know vanguard are squishy, but I think with enough dragoons running in front they can be sheltered a bit.
yea and the best part about the allied rhinos is that the lack of scout doesnt matter because they are in rhinos! put the dominus in a 9 man squad of two plasma vanguard for more fun!
Swara wrote: I completely forgot about the Dominus Maniple -
That would allow me to get another Crawler in and a Dominus, who I love and hope they combine the books here soon so he can be my HQ.
That would give me 5 duncrawlers all by themselves - one with icarus - a dominus, and vanguard and dragoons.. I know vanguard are squishy, but I think with enough dragoons running in front they can be sheltered a bit.
yea and the best part about the allied rhinos is that the lack of scout doesnt matter because they are in rhinos! put the dominus in a 9 man squad of two plasma vanguard for more fun!
You could still get scout for the main skitarii group if you choose an alpha as your warlord? Allowing the Onagers to move forward and put pressure on the other side would be a tactic to keep my vanguard alive if i don't take allied transports.
Swara wrote: I completely forgot about the Dominus Maniple -
That would allow me to get another Crawler in and a Dominus, who I love and hope they combine the books here soon so he can be my HQ.
That would give me 5 duncrawlers all by themselves - one with icarus - a dominus, and vanguard and dragoons.. I know vanguard are squishy, but I think with enough dragoons running in front they can be sheltered a bit.
yea and the best part about the allied rhinos is that the lack of scout doesnt matter because they are in rhinos! put the dominus in a 9 man squad of two plasma vanguard for more fun!
You could still get scout for the main skitarii group if you choose an alpha as your warlord? Allowing the Onagers to move forward and put pressure on the other side would be a tactic to keep my vanguard alive if i don't take allied transports.
You get scout regardless of warlord in a skitarii maniple, I just meant that the Dominus Maniple is lacking scout because it is a separate entity from the Skitarii detachment, which gives skitarii units scout.
The wording wouldnt be so bloody frustrating if they stop using 'Maniple' to describe every battle group.
I'll probably go with that then.
My one wish now is a way to get more Dragoons into an army (separate units) without taking that formation that has to outflank.
So I've been testing my list with 2 squads of Rangers with 3 Arc Rifles and 3 squads of Vanguard with Plasma Calivers.
I am curious how people here feel on the fancy AP3 Armorbane Snipers vs the Rifles. Are they actually worth the extra points? This applies to Rangers of course, for reference.
Dramagod2 wrote: Has anyone had any luck running vanguard squads with a single arc rifle? Is it a waste to have 3 or 4 squads of 5 with one arc rifle each?
It wouldn't be a bad 15 points for a couple shots at a vehicle if you can't fire at anything else.. but I run groups with 3 and then groups that have none. If you are firing a single arc at a vehicle it most likely means that the rest of squad isn't doing anything.
I ended up really liking 10 Vanguard with just the -1 to cover - they can threaten everything but vehicles, even termies and gargantuan creatures.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So I've been testing my list with 2 squads of Rangers with 3 Arc Rifles and 3 squads of Vanguard with Plasma Calivers.
I am curious how people here feel on the fancy AP3 Armorbane Snipers vs the Rifles. Are they actually worth the extra points? This applies to Rangers of course, for reference.
Every time I take the rifle I regret it. the rest of my army is moving forward and the rifles hanging back and putting off a couple piddle shots.
I'm not taking just vanguard with plasma, arc, and plan groups.
Hey, I'm looking for some tips on playing Skitarii Infiltraitors in a Puretarii list. I'm starting out with a 500 point list with 215 points invested in Infiltraitors that are equipped with flechette blasters/ taser goads, the omniscient mask, and the infoslave skull. I was wondering:
1. Are Infiltraitors worth running at 500 points? If not, then which point level is recommended for them to be played in?
2. Which is better- infiltrate with scout, or outflank with acute senses?
3. How do you get them into close combat without being shot down by overwatch? The Skitarii codex doesn't have pinning, so I can't pin down the unit I was planning to charge. And the nerostatic aura special rule doesn't stop overwatch from firing at BS1.
Virtus wrote: 3. How do you get them into close combat without being shot down by overwatch? The Skitarii codex doesn't have pinning, so I can't pin down the unit I was planning to charge. And the nerostatic aura special rule doesn't stop overwatch from firing at BS1.
Don't worry about it, overwatch rarely makes much difference.
Virtus wrote: Hey, I'm looking for some tips on playing Skitarii Infiltraitors in a Puretarii list. I'm starting out with a 500 point list with 215 points invested in Infiltraitors that are equipped with flechette blasters/ taser goads, the omniscient mask, and the infoslave skull. I was wondering:
1. Are Infiltraitors worth running at 500 points? If not, then which point level is recommended for them to be played in?
2. Which is better- infiltrate with scout, or outflank with acute senses?
3. How do you get them into close combat without being shot down by overwatch? The Skitarii codex doesn't have pinning, so I can't pin down the unit I was planning to charge. And the nerostatic aura special rule doesn't stop overwatch from firing at BS1.
My group has been playing 550 to 1250 point games with me utilizing a mixture of Skitarii and Adeptus Mechanicus. I typically go with an even blend, but have recently done a few Skitarii only lists at the 550 level. Infiltrators are one of the units I use (and in the same loadout that you use - minus the Infoslave Skull).
1. They are extremely useful. Surprisingly durable with two wounds, stealth, a four plus save, and feel no pain. They hit like a freight train in close combat and their flechette weapons are nothing to scoff at. Just be careful if your opponent pulls out S6 multi-shot weaponry. Infiltrators and Rust-Stalkers do not like Scatter Lasers.
2. I like infiltrate with scout to put pressure on my opponent early, but really it is down to preference. Either way you have to wait a turn to charge.
3. As long as you are not charging heavy flamers you are pretty well off. They are durable enough and tough enough to weather a round of overwatch fire from most enemy units, then with a little luck beat them to a pulp with taser goads. I charged a 50 man squad of IG conscripts with preferred enemy in a game earlier today and only lost one to overwatch.
The important thing to remember when using them is to have a decent fire-base to support them and to use cover like it is going out of style until you are ready to pounce. For pure Skitarii I would suggest Ranger backup unless you want to go hyper aggressive with short-range Vanguard. Although there is no good substitute for a unit of Kataphrons.
What are people arming their alphas with? I often see cc weapons, but in a squad armed with ranged ones it does not make sense to me, even in the war convocation.
My Ranger Alphas keep their rifles. Nothing saying they can't have 'em. Only exception is my Ranger squad with Arc Rifles, where he has an Arc Maul and Arc Pistol.
Is it a good setup? Nope! But I don't care...because Haywire!
Vanguard Alphas get phospher pistols and the taser bits.
Kanluwen wrote: My Ranger Alphas keep their rifles. Nothing saying they can't have 'em. Only exception is my Ranger squad with Arc Rifles, where he has an Arc Maul and Arc Pistol.
Is it a good setup? Nope! But I don't care...because Haywire!
Vanguard Alphas get phospher pistols and the taser bits.
My Ranger Alphas keep their rifles as well. We have a lot of non MEQ where we play so those rifles can be indispensable. My Vanguard Alpha on the other hand uses a Radium Pistol and a Taser Goad. My Vanguard Alpha is more expensive than he has any right to be, but when the Taser Goad works it is fantastic. Like beating down a Mawloc in close combat before it can eat my Dominus.
My Plasma Vanguard Alpha has the standard radium carbine and conversion field. My Arc Alpha has arc maul/arc pistol and conversion field, and my Ranger alpha has Arkhan's Divinator and a standard rifle.
Kanluwen wrote:My Ranger Alphas keep their rifles. Nothing saying they can't have 'em. Only exception is my Ranger squad with Arc Rifles, where he has an Arc Maul and Arc Pistol.
Is it a good setup? Nope! But I don't care...because Haywire!
Vanguard Alphas get phospher pistols and the taser bits.
UnstableDominus wrote:
Kanluwen wrote: My Ranger Alphas keep their rifles. Nothing saying they can't have 'em. Only exception is my Ranger squad with Arc Rifles, where he has an Arc Maul and Arc Pistol.
Is it a good setup? Nope! But I don't care...because Haywire!
Vanguard Alphas get phospher pistols and the taser bits.
My Ranger Alphas keep their rifles as well. We have a lot of non MEQ where we play so those rifles can be indispensable. My Vanguard Alpha on the other hand uses a Radium Pistol and a Taser Goad. My Vanguard Alpha is more expensive than he has any right to be, but when the Taser Goad works it is fantastic. Like beating down a Mawloc in close combat before it can eat my Dominus.
Verviedi wrote:My Plasma Vanguard Alpha has the standard radium carbine and conversion field. My Arc Alpha has arc maul/arc pistol and conversion field, and my Ranger alpha has Arkhan's Divinator and a standard rifle.
Thanks for the replies, but I still fail to see how a melee weapon would be useful in a ranged squad?
and thats good to know. Do you give them omni-spexes too?
Let me know if I can help!
if you want me to post my lists I can.
