Im quietly hoping against a new buggy kit as i spent way too long making my own, and i dont want new ones to be so coo that i feel the need to drop cash on them...
New gunz look really good, andit's definitely possible for them to be dual-kit with something else, being so similar to buggies as they are. I love their size, now "Big Gunz" really means "BIG Gunz!" Mek at the front will probably be included in the kit as some sort of "Mek Runtherd."
Perfect Organism wrote: I actually think I like the 'clean' look of the new ork stuff a bit better. I like to add my own details in plasticard and it's easier to make the same kit look different every time you build it if the details are optional.
This might be why GW's gone in this direction for Orks, because they almost always get converted and given more detail. You could make a boy into a warboss if you convert hard enough!
CalgarsPimpHand wrote: And then the 'Eavy Metal guys paint them like pre-school toys. Very bright, often primary colors, extremely clean and nearly "flat" with no detail or texture. If they want to snag more 10 year olds, I guess this is one way to do it, but in my opinion like 70% of new releases since the start of 6th have looked absolutely TERRIBLE coming out of the studio
They really only look good once more talented converters and painters get their hands on them. That is, if the model in question is salvageable at all.
What gives?
Probably a new team of painters, or it's just pictures not showing how good the paintjobs actually are.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: If the kaptain is identical to the gitz, what makes him the kaptain? He should get something on his profile or equipment to make him boss.
They might change the way options work and have an "Ork armoury" as others have been suggesting, so you can give units with all the same upgrade choices those upgrades, and unit-specific upgrades are listed with the unit's profile.
It seems obvious the Mekboy in front of Big Gunz will be part of the new kit. These weapons look really cool, especially the firing post for grotz (so indeed, WS 3!).
However I don't think it will allow to build Buggies...
The Flashgitz look incredible, definitely getting one of those. Their rulez are OK I guess, not crazy. Getting only 6+ is clearly a nerf.
Flamethrowers now deal 1D6 hits on embarked units in open-topped transports, don't they?...
Let's wait for the Trukk/BW update, though.
The KFF nerf (models, not units) is bad news, really. Now I don't see the point using them, except for vehicles-only detachments.
Gorkanaut/Morkanaut kit looks pretty cool! I like the idea of such a heavy transport.
Just throw Burnaboyz with 3 meks in it to fix Hull Points and deal damage!
RobZie wrote:Im quietly hoping against a new buggy kit as i spent way too long making my own, and i dont want new ones to be so coo that i feel the need to drop cash on them...
Spoiler:
Building your own vehicles is the true essence of orkiness. So no released kit can ever actually be better than the ones you built yourself.
That's what I've been thinking about, it seems a little top heavy...what I think is we will see a Freebootaz supplement and then Orks, like the Militarum Tempestus and AM releases.
RobZie wrote: Im quietly hoping against a new buggy kit as i spent way too long making my own, and i dont want new ones to be so coo that i feel the need to drop cash on them...
Has anyone noticed that the middle gun has what looks like a KFF on it? Either that's just "teknikul kno-wots," or maybe some sort of new defense weapon? Orks aren't big on defense, but if it's a KFF-thrower, then that's something fun to play with. Not sure how it would work though, so it's most likely just a different zzap gun. Although it kind of looks like a kustom mega-kannon.
Oh. Those Big Gunz look sweet. Maybe they're not intended as an eliminatory double kit with Buggies... but what ork worth its teef could resist kitbashing some buggies from them?
Back in the "good old days" when Orks were Orks and shokk attack guns has snotling bases for ammo there were named big guns. Smasha guns were smaller lifta droppas, traktor cannons did damage and pulled target towards ork army. Pulsa rokkits were loaded up with dice load if fuel and k knocked things down. Splatta kannons fired a bouncing shot. Back in the days of to hit modifiers and armies of heavy support . Hope that helps!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Bubble chukkas were in epic and would project a force bubble around a weapon. When weapon fired it'd rebound onto the firer great fun! I think rogue trader also had them but unsure
rtb01 wrote: The centre looks like the old smasha gun, far right all bubble chukka, left side unsure.
Bubble Chukka? Smasha Gun?
Sorry I got into Orks in 4th Edition and don't have access to the older books with those weapons. Can you elaborate on them?
Not sure what a Smash Gun is.
The Traktor Kannon was a tractor beam, used to pull enemies off their feet.
The Bubble Chukka projected a force field which trapped the target. When they tried to fire their weapons, they would hit the bubble and deflect the shots back into themselves.
The lifta-droppa or 'hand of gork' was basically the same as the one we have on big mek stompas now, although smaller and less impressive.
There was also a pulsa-rokkit, which fired a force field generator capable of knocking things down, a hop-splat gun, which fired bouncing shells and a squig catapult, which fired jars of tiny squigs.
I am very excited about this release. I have been playing orks since 2007. You don't get into orks because they are the top army or even in the top tier. You get into them because they have the best models in miniature gaming!
It is a little bit unfortunate that the KFF is only models now, but not huge. Most things will get cover saves for being behind other models. Just make sure those models get the KFF coverage and things are good!
The Gorkanauts are really neat, though the price is tough to take. I pre-ordered one for the sake of completion though.
The Bubble Chukka projected a force field which trapped the target. When they tried to fire their weapons, they would hit the bubble and deflect the shots back into themselves.
IT'S PAYBACK TIME, YA ERE ME FIREWARRIORS! PAYBACK TIIIIIIME!!
RobZie wrote:Im quietly hoping against a new buggy kit as i spent way too long making my own, and i dont want new ones to be so coo that i feel the need to drop cash on them...
Spoiler:
Building your own vehicles is the true essence of orkiness. So no released kit can ever actually be better than the ones you built yourself.
Red Corsair wrote: I don't think the guns are buggy duel kits. If you look closely they don't even have a rear end. It's just wheels and shield in the front.
Maybe you have to buy two big guns kits to make a buggy...
Red Corsair wrote: I don't think the guns are buggy duel kits. If you look closely they don't even have a rear end. It's just wheels and shield in the front.
Maybe you have to buy two big guns kits to make a buggy...
I guess it depends on which half has the drive train... I doubt 2 wheels has ever stopped an ork from pedaling down on the gas anyways
Red Corsair wrote: I don't think the guns are buggy duel kits. If you look closely they don't even have a rear end. It's just wheels and shield in the front.
Maybe you have to buy two big guns kits to make a buggy...
I guess it depends on which half has the drive train... I doubt 2 wheels has ever stopped an ork from pedaling down on the gas anyways
And now i know exactly what my buggies will look like
Red Corsair wrote: I don't think the guns are buggy duel kits. If you look closely they don't even have a rear end. It's just wheels and shield in the front.
Maybe you have to buy two big guns kits to make a buggy...
I guess it depends on which half has the drive train... I doubt 2 wheels has ever stopped an ork from pedaling down on the gas anyways
And now i know exactly what my buggies will look like
Red Corsair wrote: I don't think the guns are buggy duel kits. If you look closely they don't even have a rear end. It's just wheels and shield in the front.
It could be that the kit gives you two sets of wheels but you only use one if assembling the piece as an artillery piece rather than a buggy.
Wishful thinking perhaps, but whatever faults GW has, they usually give you quite a lot of extra bitz in their kits.
It would also frankly be rather embarrassing to have photos of those ancient buggies/traks in the new codex. But I guess they could be saving them for a supplement (perhaps removing the entry from the codex proper and re-introducing them in a speed-freak supplement)
So let's look at what models still need plastic kits, and there is still no visual confirmation:
Ghazghkull
Grotsnik
Wazdakka - will he exist?
Zogwort - will he exist?
Weirdboy
Tankbustas
Kommandos
Buggies
Koptas
Badrukk - will he exist? Supplement?
Snikrot - will he exist?
Zagstruk - will he exist?
I'm hoping we get them all :p
*edit* by exist I mean continue to have rules in the codex
So, did the Flash Gitz get any cheaper? I'm seeing 11- points in the corner of the picture, and it's 22/per extra up to 10.
If it's a cost reduction, that plus the loss of having to pay for every damn upgrade, plus the three hits, plus bs3, makes it all sound a lot more useful. Oh, and bosspoles on every one, standard. That's sweet when they already have two wounds.
Leerjawise wrote: So let's look at what models still need plastic kits, and there is still no visual confirmation:
Ghazghkull
Grotsnik
Wazdakka - will he exist?
Zogwort - will he exist?
Weirdboy
Tankbustas
Kommandos
Buggies
Koptas
Badrukk - will he exist? Supplement?
Snikrot - will he exist?
Zagstruk - will he exist?
I'm hoping we get them all :p
*edit* by exist I mean continue to have rules in the codex
I think there will be a Kopta Kit even if it is a reissue of the AoBR kit. Reason being the old kit is no longer available on the website. I also have the feeling that since Orks have been neglected for so long that they may have more kits than a normal release, meaning a tankbusta/kommando kit is still on the menu.
Impunity wrote: So, did the Flash Gitz get any cheaper? I'm seeing 11- points in the corner of the picture, and it's 22/per extra up to 10.
If it's a cost reduction, that plus the loss of having to pay for every damn upgrade, plus the three hits, plus bs3, makes it all sound a lot more useful. Oh, and bosspoles on every one, standard. That's sweet when they already have two wounds.
Yeah, they were 25 points, so a small reduction. Since they all have bosspoles, it is likely that bosspoles do something new
Impunity wrote: So, did the Flash Gitz get any cheaper? I'm seeing 11- points in the corner of the picture, and it's 22/per extra up to 10.
If it's a cost reduction, that plus the loss of having to pay for every damn upgrade, plus the three hits, plus bs3, makes it all sound a lot more useful. Oh, and bosspoles on every one, standard. That's sweet when they already have two wounds.
Yeah, they were 25 points, so a small reduction. Since they all have bosspoles, it is likely that bosspoles do something new
Actually, pretty much all of their upgrades were MANDATORY if you were running them so they were more like 40 points a model.
Impunity wrote: So, did the Flash Gitz get any cheaper? I'm seeing 11- points in the corner of the picture, and it's 22/per extra up to 10.
If it's a cost reduction, that plus the loss of having to pay for every damn upgrade, plus the three hits, plus bs3, makes it all sound a lot more useful. Oh, and bosspoles on every one, standard. That's sweet when they already have two wounds.
Yeah, they were 25 points, so a small reduction. Since they all have bosspoles, it is likely that bosspoles do something new
Actually, pretty much all of their upgrades were MANDATORY if you were running them so they were more like 40 points a model.
Two of their upgrades are unavailable now, 1 is built in their increased fire. -5 for eavy armor, +1 for stikkbombs, +5 for bosspole (assuming no change) so differences are effectively 9 points, 1 extra shot, and ere we go instead of Waaagh, higher limit on ammo runts, 1 is a character, and can take dedicated transports.
Painboy availability is up in the air for now. I think the best buff is that they can score now, so they should make decent objective sitters
Impunity wrote: So, did the Flash Gitz get any cheaper? I'm seeing 11- points in the corner of the picture, and it's 22/per extra up to 10.
If it's a cost reduction, that plus the loss of having to pay for every damn upgrade, plus the three hits, plus bs3, makes it all sound a lot more useful. Oh, and bosspoles on every one, standard. That's sweet when they already have two wounds.
Yeah, they were 25 points, so a small reduction. Since they all have bosspoles, it is likely that bosspoles do something new
They lost heavy armor though.
Last edition the +1 shot was mandatory, making them 30. The +1 AP was pretty much the same. So they ran 35, then one was flipped to a pain boy. And it was often worth it to make them cyborgs. Really, 10 were at least 440 points at the end of the day. They are half that now with better shooting.
Also great is the dedicated wagons and trukks. In the past they were like two heavies since you needed the wagon.
Would it be wrong to suggest that I get the feeling that this release is probably more aimed at the veterans than the younger player. With the release of Flashgitz (for those who remember Freebooters), artillery that is reminiscent of 2nd edition codex and the Runtbot esc M/Gorkanaut. Could it be that GW are hoping to please the veteran gamer?
Is GW actually trying to please or just recycling old ideas?
The only thing that bothers me about this release is that gork/morkanaut and new big guns change the aesthetics of the army.
Could this be GWs way of guiding the ork army to a total new look. And altering the feel of the army.
loki old fart wrote: The only thing that bothers me about this release is that gork/morkanaut and new big guns change the aesthetics of the army.
Could this be GWs way of guiding the ork army to a total new look. And altering the feel of the army.
Do you really think this significantly alters the current look?
The Gorkanaut looks like the deff dredd and the stomp smashed together and had a baby, so looks about right. The guns look like they are various guns attached to scrap from various ork vehicles.
I don't feel it is a total change of direction artistically speaking. There are a lot of similarities between what is there and the Deff Dread and kans. There are differences but if you look at the old epic this is more of a move back to that and away from the more grungy mad max style to a more comic relief style.
For example
As my personal preference I like the style they had before, not the relatively clean style of the M/Gorkanaut. Though nothing some conversion couldn't fix it will just take longer. Big guns are more the style that we like more like the ork trukk.
loki old fart wrote: The only thing that bothers me about this release is that gork/morkanaut and new big guns change the aesthetics of the army.
Could this be GWs way of guiding the ork army to a total new look. And altering the feel of the army.
Do you really think this significantly alters the current look?
The Gorkanaut looks like the deff dredd and the stomp smashed together and had a baby, so looks about right. The guns look like they are various guns attached to scrap from various ork vehicles.
That seems about right to me on both counts.
It feels off, if you know what I mean. Something not quite right.
loki old fart wrote: The only thing that bothers me about this release is that gork/morkanaut and new big guns change the aesthetics of the army.
Could this be GWs way of guiding the ork army to a total new look. And altering the feel of the army.
Do you really think this significantly alters the current look?
The Gorkanaut looks like the deff dredd and the stomp smashed together and had a baby, so looks about right. The guns look like they are various guns attached to scrap from various ork vehicles.
That seems about right to me on both counts.
I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. Take a close look at the parts of the gorkanaut... It has a lot of rivets, but it lacks the ramshackle appearance of the other ork vehicles. It's made with large, smooth, fitted parts. In fact, the only thing that makes it look orky is the claw, head, and overall silhouette of the model. And since Jes Goodwin came out and said that the designers focus on silhouettes when making models, I can say they succeeded, but it has a well built look to it. Which is a bit hard to process considering that's what I naturally like to look at, but understand that's not the way that this should look. IT NEEDS TO LOOK UGLIER!
loki old fart wrote: The only thing that bothers me about this release is that gork/morkanaut and new big guns change the aesthetics of the army.
Could this be GWs way of guiding the ork army to a total new look. And altering the feel of the army.
Do you really think this significantly alters the current look?
The Gorkanaut looks like the deff dredd and the stomp smashed together and had a baby, so looks about right. The guns look like they are various guns attached to scrap from various ork vehicles.
That seems about right to me on both counts.
It feels off, if you know what I mean. Something not quite right.
I can agree with that for the gorkanaut, but the big guns look about right, though it is hard to tell from that picture.
Not really sure. I have a gorkanaut pre-ordered so I will see what I get out of it. I am confident I can get it to match up and look good in my dredd mob.
Quarterdime: Come on, there are rounded components on other models. I think this is likely a little bit about the GW paint style. I bet we can make it look much more beat up.
loki old fart wrote: The only thing that bothers me about this release is that gork/morkanaut and new big guns change the aesthetics of the army.
Could this be GWs way of guiding the ork army to a total new look. And altering the feel of the army.
Do you really think this significantly alters the current look?
The Gorkanaut looks like the deff dredd and the stomp smashed together and had a baby, so looks about right. The guns look like they are various guns attached to scrap from various ork vehicles.
That seems about right to me on both counts.
I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. Take a close look at the parts of the gorkanaut... It has a lot of rivets, but it lacks the ramshackle appearance of the other ork vehicles. It's made with large, smooth, fitted parts. In fact, the only thing that makes it look orky is the claw, head, and overall silhouette of the model. And since Jes Goodwin came out and said that the designers focus on silhouettes when making models, I can say they succeeded, but it has a well built look to it. Which is a bit hard to process considering that's what I naturally like to look at, but understand that's not the way that this should look. IT NEEDS TO LOOK UGLIER!
Yeah that's part of it if you look at it straight on and close up it looks like the entrance to a orky compound. Take the legs and weapons off, add some walls and bingo.
It looks like a scaled up EPIC model and not a garbage heap, held together with Ork good intentions and oversized bolts.
I can hammer on random parts to make it look more Kustom.
Agreed, I disliked the busy apron of the Stompa, really, Orks never loot large thick sheets of metal? Or only in 1 square foot sheets? The Gorkanaut looks like the doors have been cut down and riveted, nothing on it seems like it is perfect or cut to fit unless it is part of a moving mechanism. I like the balance, and gives us lots of flat surfaces to attach plates, horns, glyphs, and other bitz. It honestly reminds me of the Dakka Jet, which is quite possibly my favorite 40k model.
The collar plate, kneecaps, those segmented band-things around its armpits, probably something on the backside too if I could actually get to look at it.
Quarterdime wrote: The collar plate, kneecaps, those segmented band-things around its armpits, probably something on the backside too if I could actually get to look at it.
Deff dredds have similar shaped components.
The 360 view on GW.com shows the back. If you don't like the front, you won't like the back!
Honestly, I think the Gorkanaut looks fine. The Kans and Dreads have parts that look more machined, and it's not as if orks never capture factories that can pump out parts for them. The Ork war machine *has* to have at least some manufacturing capability, it can't just be single meks working to put all of this stuff together. And even then, it's not like one can't take random pieces of plasticard and add them onto the model to make it look more ramshackle.
It's weird, but I can rationalize the different choices.
Ork Aircraft are probably almost all looted, so they have some riveting and mismatched parts, but they can't be too ramshackle, or they won't fly.
Ork Stompas are a communal effort by loads of orks, so everybody rivets and hammer stuff into place, so they are very ramshackle.
Ork Trukks are probably looted, so they are pretty ramshackle, and they fall apart easily, so they have loads of mismatched bits.
Ork Dreads and Kans are (kind-of) kustom built, but they aren't built for the mek himself (he's gonna hammer some grot or ork in there). They have more kustom components, but still loot a litlte bit of stuff.
The Gorka(Morka)naut is kustom built (no other walkers like it) and built for a specific client (who won't be trapped in it), possibly even the mek himself, so it has loads of custom components and (for orks) a relative dearth of scrap parts.
I'm not saying anybody's opinion is wrong. I myself would have liked this model as much with more scrap parts, but I do think it's easier to add scrap parts than to remove them.
Da Butcha wrote: It's weird, but I can rationalize the different choices.
Ork Aircraft are probably almost all looted, so they have some riveting and mismatched parts, but they can't be too ramshackle, or they won't fly.
Ork Stompas are a communal effort by loads of orks, so everybody rivets and hammer stuff into place, so they are very ramshackle.
Ork Trukks are probably looted, so they are pretty ramshackle, and they fall apart easily, so they have loads of mismatched bits.
Ork Dreads and Kans are (kind-of) kustom built, but they aren't built for the mek himself (he's gonna hammer some grot or ork in there). They have more kustom components, but still loot a litlte bit of stuff.
The Gorka(Morka)naut is kustom built (no other walkers like it) and built for a specific client (who won't be trapped in it), possibly even the mek himself, so it has loads of custom components and (for orks) a relative dearth of scrap parts.
I'm not saying anybody's opinion is wrong. I myself would have liked this model as much with more scrap parts, but I do think it's easier to add scrap parts than to remove them.
Leerjawise wrote: Agreed, I disliked the busy apron of the Stompa, really, Orks never loot large thick sheets of metal? Or only in 1 square foot sheets?
When you scale those 'little' plates on the stompa to 'real life' sizes, they are five or six feet across and several inches thick. Each one would weigh over a ton it it was solid steel armour plate.
Quarterdime wrote: The collar plate, kneecaps, those segmented band-things around its armpits, probably something on the backside too if I could actually get to look at it.
Deff dredds have similar shaped components.
The 360 view on GW.com shows the back. If you don't like the front, you won't like the back!
Similar components? They have no such components that I see. I see something segmented in the armpit, but in any case scale matters. If it's that big then I expect it to look more like the stompa. Just compare this to the Stompa, which in my opinion is a perfect model.
Was just ogling the flash gitz again, I absolutely love how one of them is holding a slugga as well a massive snazzgun.
You can never have enough dakka.
Quarterdime wrote: The collar plate, kneecaps, those segmented band-things around its armpits, probably something on the backside too if I could actually get to look at it.
Deff dredds have similar shaped components.
The 360 view on GW.com shows the back. If you don't like the front, you won't like the back!
Similar components? They have no such components that I see. I see something segmented in the armpit, but in any case scale matters. If it's that big then I expect it to look more like the stompa. Just compare this to the Stompa, which in my opinion is a perfect model.
Deff dredds have always had rounded components, often with a seam of some sort. Look at the old dredd and kans.
I love the stompa. I have three. But I don't see the stompa as any less manufactured as the goranaut, though I don't have the model in hand so can't give a final determination. The stompas HEAD is a single rounded capsule, the socket it sits in is machined. The gorkanaut has a ragged cut along the top of its chassis, just like the lid portion on top of the Stompa.
I understand where you are coming from, but it isn't as though there aren't already machined parts on the current walkers and large, clear shell components.
Orks DO, to a certain extent, manufacture and mass-produce weapons and vehicles. Those, however, are definitely way more ramshackle than something a mek would spend time and "care" on. Since dreads and kans are usually "kustom jobs," a mek would probably make a slightly larger effort in putting them together than he would making 200 sluggas, 10 trukks, or a squad of warbikes. Take note in how a battlewagon (or at least the current kit) is a lot less ramshackle and loose as a trukk. A BW is a "kustom job" that a warboss or kaptin or some other leader will commission the mek for, so he puts just a little bit more effort into making it sturdy and worky, so the boss doesn't die and he gets paid. It's got a lot of clean, flat areas, and looks like a big half-track that might actually work than the trukk, something put together to get boyz from A to B as quickly as possible.It looks like it'll fall apart if it goes more than 20 miles, and it's got a rule to represent that.
Looking at the sprue of the Gorkamorkanaut, there's lots of scratches and dings on most of the parts, and some "pounded metal" texture on others. It's supposed to be big pieces of scrap, but the mediocre paintjobs cover up most of the texture and just makes everything look like a solid block. What people want is what you get on the stompa, trukk and BW - pieces hammered and riveted on top of each other instead of scratches and dings. The illusion of this is also on the dread and kans, with lines carved into the pieces to look like panels. I think this layering is called "greebling," and if that was on the Gorkamorkanaut, opinions would probably be very different.
IMO the Gorkamorkanaut is just another great conversion opportunity. Large, flat areas are easier to use in conversions, and better for adding layers of plasticard to. I like it, I'll probably buy it eventually (I want to see what other goodies we get!), and it will. Get. Converted.
Big Gunz should also have a BS 3 since grots do the aimin' However I'm very curious to see the weapon stats. Maybe you won't even have to roll to hit? Like the good 'ol Zzap in 3rd...
I do hope we get some AA stuff.
Traktor Kannon against enemy flyer, just picture it folks!!!
Quarterdime wrote: The collar plate, kneecaps, those segmented band-things around its armpits, probably something on the backside too if I could actually get to look at it.
Deff dredds have similar shaped components.
The 360 view on GW.com shows the back. If you don't like the front, you won't like the back!
Similar components? They have no such components that I see. I see something segmented in the armpit, but in any case scale matters. If it's that big then I expect it to look more like the stompa. Just compare this to the Stompa, which in my opinion is a perfect model.
Deff dredds have always had rounded components, often with a seam of some sort. Look at the old dredd and kans.
I love the stompa. I have three. But I don't see the stompa as any less manufactured as the goranaut, though I don't have the model in hand so can't give a final determination. The stompas HEAD is a single rounded capsule, the socket it sits in is machined. The gorkanaut has a ragged cut along the top of its chassis, just like the lid portion on top of the Stompa.
I understand where you are coming from, but it isn't as though there aren't already machined parts on the current walkers and large, clear shell components.
If I was just talking about rounded components, I would have brought up half the model. I'm referring to particular parts that look too well-fitted for orks.
Bonzofever wrote: Big Gunz should also have a BS 3 since grots do the aimin' However I'm very curious to see the weapon stats. Maybe you won't even have to roll to hit? Like the good 'ol Zzap in 3rd...
I do hope we get some AA stuff.
Traktor Kannon against enemy flyer, just picture it folks!!!
Didn't Squidbot mention that there are now 4 gun types? From the image we have seen, the left gun appears to be the ZZap gun or similar, the middle one has some sort of KFF assembly on it, and the right gun appears to be adapted from Mega Blaster Tech.
I love the grots on these gun, especially the welding helmet head
I haven't been keeping track of every single page here, but has anyone else noticed in the story book of the 7th edition set noticed that the Ork section has a piece of art spanning an entire page that very well looks like it could be the codex's art?:
Wilytank wrote: I haven't been keeping track of every single page here, but has anyone else noticed in the story book of the 7th edition set noticed that the Ork section has a piece of art spanning an entire page that very well looks like it could be the codex's art?:
Considering all the other sections are preceded by their codex art, it is very likely.
Wilytank wrote: I haven't been keeping track of every single page here, but has anyone else noticed in the story book of the 7th edition set noticed that the Ork section has a piece of art spanning an entire page that very well looks like it could be the codex's art?:
Spoiler:
It's already been posted here, but yes, it's more than likely that this is the codex cover. It's in line with the rest of the covers, it's damn orky, and it was featured in the Gorkamorkanaut video as well, WITHOUT the Goff symbol (thankfully).
Da Butcha wrote: ... it's easier to add scrap parts than to remove them.
This is a big reason I like the cleaner look. It's much easier to make it as ramshackle as you want by adding detail, than to remove unwanted detail.
The Gorka/Morkanaut looks unfinished. Even if you ignore the overall smoother and cleaner look, the area behind the head, and the area next to the legs, are completely bare of detail. Even aside from that, overall the level of detail that's present looks out of scale - over most of the model it's like a scaled up Kann. Like a 28mm scale walker, blown up to 3x scale, with a few random bits and bobs added. Really unimpressed.
ace101 wrote: And the rules aren't too bad, but the variable AP on the snazzguns could hurt at times.
When the BS 3 is in effect, they're actually pretty decent as AP-, massively better than lootas against T3-4 in fact (~80% better vs T4 per model, and ~23% better at equal point cost). Getting AP2 or AP3 against the right target just makes them sort of ridiculous, like having a chance for lootas to suddenly becoming Heavy 8 vs terminators or Heavy 6 vs MEQ.
PhillyT wrote: Again though, find the seams on the stompas outside of the lid and the armor plates on the hull. Both arms and the back components are well fitted.
The Stompa looks like the only things that were well fitted were the bare necessities and the guns. Aside from that, everything's made from oddly shaped scrap. I don't see how you can compare the two. Hell, even the icon on their bellies show the difference. The Stompa's was assembled from scrap to form the shape while the Gorkanaut's icon looks like it was made in a giant two part mold!
ace101 wrote: And the rules aren't too bad, but the variable AP on the snazzguns could hurt at times.
When the BS 3 is in effect, they're actually pretty decent as AP-, massively better than lootas against T3-4 in fact (~80% better vs T4 per model, and ~23% better at equal point cost). Getting AP2 or AP3 against the right target just makes them sort of ridiculous, like having a chance for lootas to suddenly becoming Heavy 8 vs terminators or Heavy 6 vs MEQ.
All they need is a way to keep them from getting barraged or flamed off the table in one turn!
PhillyT wrote: Again though, find the seams on the stompas outside of the lid and the armor plates on the hull. Both arms and the back components are well fitted.
The Stompa looks like the only things that were well fitted were the bare necessities and the guns. Aside from that, everything's made from oddly shaped scrap. I don't see how you can compare the two. Hell, even the icon on their bellies show the difference. The Stompa's was assembled from scrap to form the shape while the Gorkanaut's icon looks like it was made in a giant two part mold!
Lol, no, it looks like it was roughly cut from a must larger piece of metal. And since that is a separate piece, it would be very easy to cut it apart and paint it like different smaller pieces of metal, if that is what you want. My issue with the stompa is every stompa looks the same, when they are supposed to be random and haphazard, whomever assembled the apron assembles the plates in the same position everytime. WIth models like these nauts, with big parts and big flat spaces, it makes it extremely easy to customize. Which is what we want, yes?
PhillyT wrote: Again though, find the seams on the stompas outside of the lid and the armor plates on the hull. Both arms and the back components are well fitted.
The Stompa looks like the only things that were well fitted were the bare necessities and the guns. Aside from that, everything's made from oddly shaped scrap. I don't see how you can compare the two. Hell, even the icon on their bellies show the difference. The Stompa's was assembled from scrap to form the shape while the Gorkanaut's icon looks like it was made in a giant two part mold!
Lol, no, it looks like it was roughly cut from a must larger piece of metal. And since that is a separate piece, it would be very easy to cut it apart and paint it like different smaller pieces of metal, if that is what you want. My issue with the stompa is every stompa looks the same, when they are supposed to be random and haphazard, whomever assembled the apron assembles the plates in the same position everytime. WIth models like these nauts, with big parts and big flat spaces, it makes it extremely easy to customize. Which is what we want, yes?
Customization is one thing, but I'm talking model design on it's own merit, stompa's better.
Starting to think of how I could make the best out of the new KFF situation -
I run a Green Tide army, with only one trukk as a vehicle that I fill with Nobz - a layout of 6 Nobz with 2PKs, 2 combi skorchas and 2 big choppas and a painboy. I could leave out one of the choppas and put that mob in a Morkanaut, that is surrounded by one of my 30 boy mobz, while my 2 KFF meks join up with my other 30 boy mob. That would be a fairly large blob to have moving up in the front lines, while my 3 other 20 boy mobz get cover and LoS blocking behind. Then I could fill the trukk with MANz or Flash Gitz. It would mean buying a Morkanaut though which I wasn't very keen on doing.
Though, I guess I would want to wait to see if the Battlewagon stats change at all - might be better to just get one of those and stick a KFF in with a unit of MANz or Gitz. It's pretty obvious I'm going to have to drop a serious chunk of change between the new codex and models, considering GW has made the green tide even more unfeasable in 7th (I think we'll be seeing a LOT more complaining about that as the codex hits). The only thing that could really save it is making the most standard stuff (boyz, nobz) drop in points dramatically. Having a trukk be a free dedicated transport would be great.
Maybe a battlewagon in the middle with two naughts beside it, and all the boyz behind. Getting LOS through that much armour would be quite difficult.
KFF on the two naughts, or in the battlewagon. All that AV13/14 going right at the enemy, with those saves, with all that dakka... it may not work, but it'd look damn awesome
happygolucky wrote: Badrukk, Zagstruk and Snikrot already have models so they will be more HQ choices..
Koptas are meant to be plastic models so i'm looking forward to seeing them
i hope you're incorrect about badrukk, zagstruk, and snikrot, and that they remain unit upgrade characters, and do not become hq choices.
Badrukk as a named warboss with warboss or warboss+ stats would totally work. He's a unique character with unique gear. 3+ armour save, plasma weapon, make his sword a power weapon, let his looted capital ship fire an orbital barrage, add in a USR for his legendary Brutal Kunning. All stuff that is otherwise not in the codex.
Although I feel Zagstruk and Snikrot would work better and be more usable\properly priced as unit upgrades, especially if they can be taken in addition to a nob rather than instead of one.
While I understand people play Orks for different reasons than other armies, but after spending a couple hundred bucks on models it'd be nice to win a game ONCE in a while.
ceorron wrote: I don't feel it is a total change of direction artistically speaking. There are a lot of similarities between what is there and the Deff Dread and kans. There are differences but if you look at the old epic this is more of a move back to that and away from the more grungy mad max style to a more comic relief style.
it's funny that you mention mad max. the road warrior is one of my favorite films of all time, enough so that i based a trukk on the humungus's truck...
oddly enough, i was inspired to do it while watching an entirely different movie, the terminator.
there are some improvements still to be made on it. i want to replace the driver's head with one that has more of a hockey-mask look, and i need to get some ig guardsmen bits that can be posed to basically become the captives tied to poles on the front. i also have an older chevy car model that i'm planning to turn into a trukk based on the red chop-top truck in the movie.
apologies for going a bit ot, btw...
Multimoog wrote: While I understand people play Orks for different reasons than other armies, but after spending a couple hundred bucks on models it'd be nice to win a game ONCE in a while.
to be honest, if you cant win with orks then its either user error, or you're playing against the wrong kind of people. They're still somewhat competitive, but not against the WAAC lists that alot of players bring. Mind you, they dont have many options that are worth taking right now...
I never had a problem winning with my orks when i played them against my friends nids, or black templar, or imperial guard. Nob bikers were something that was hated, along with battlewagons, lootas, and big squads of boyz. Then again, none of us are the WAAC tournament players...
Unfortunately 6th, and now 7th, are the WAAC editions, featuring Ignores Cover as the WAAC mechanic. Like I said, they better reduce the points cost of boyz and nobz to account for the fact that 90% of Ork models will never get a saving throw
Automatically Appended Next Post: Though I will say this: if GW allows Ork players to field the Green Tide Apoc unit in regular games as a detachment to a FoC army I won't complain about any other problems with the codex at all
ceorron wrote: Would it be wrong to suggest that I get the feeling that this release is probably more aimed at the veterans than the younger player.
I daresay that every single GW release is aimed at veterans. If GW actually believed in their (assumed?) policy of targeting 14-year olds who only stay in the game for a year or so, they wouldn't be constantly inventing new units instead of fixing bad old models.
Actually I'm starting to come around on the idea of a footslogging army based around a Morkanaut. If you place a MNaut on the table flanked by two KFF meks, you have a foot of 5++ between the base of the naut and the base of each mek. And since it's 6" on all sides, you essentially have a foot of usable troop deployment space from the front of the KFF mek's bubble to the back. If you deploy those three units properly, you're getting something like 3-3.5 feet from side to side and at least a foot deep to deploy boy mobz with a 5++ save. If you have wagons or trukks to put the KFF meks in, you have more space than THAT.
...OK, this isn't as bad as I was making it out to be initially. You just need to be mindful of your deployment and troop movement. Basically treating this big blob as a core unit and moving it as such until it gets into CC.
I'm also thinking about how using the excess weapon bits from making a Mork instead of a Gork would be excellent for kitbashing into some of the new artillery units... Assuming you can make at least one or two extra artillery pieces out of extra bitz that's getting another heavy support unit for "free". Ok, fine, GW, you sold me a Naut, and got me excited for the new codex again. Clever, clever.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And NOW I'm thinking up lists using this layout. Taking a MNaut with KFF, 120 boyz (with 12 big shootas) and 2 KFF mek HQ only adds up to 1230, so there's room for a few upgrades in there to hit 1250. And that's with the points costs we have now. If the cost of boys goes down that's frosting.
The transport capacity on the Gork/Morkanaut seems rather pointless - you can only carry 6 models, and orks can't fit much in there that would be useful.
Nobs, Meganobs and Tankbustas can't assault out of it.
There are no fire points for Flash Gits, Lootas or Tankbustas.
Kommandos wouldn't need one.
Burnas are the only thing it would be useful for.
Yeah, the six transport capacity is a tough one to make use of. The WD articles kept talking about putting a Nob Squad in it, which would be a solid idea if it had an assault ramp, but totally useless otherwise. We'll have to see if the codex changes that.
YourIntestines wrote: The transport capacity on the Gork/Morkanaut seems rather pointless - you can only carry 6 models, and orks can't fit much in there that would be useful.
Are you crazy? Just throw in 6 Burnaboyz including 3 Meks and you can restore 3 Hull Points per turn.
With riggers "It Will Not Die" it gives you yet another chance to restore another HP. Don't forget AV13/13 and 5++ save!
Then, if your GorkaMorkanaut is close enough, just open its belly and there you go, 3 templates.
It sounds lethal! I'm seriously thinking about playing two Morkanauts if other units have easier access to Battlewagons as dedicated transport.
Price drop: I think we'll have Elite choices at 12 points per model instead of 15 (lootas, burnaboyz, stormboyz, etc.)
Ork boyz should cost 5 points instead of 6. Nobz 15 points instead of 20. Maybe a point drop for Power Klaws (20 instead of 25?).
Also, when compared to Eldar jetbikes, looks like Bikers will see a big drop (17 points instead of 25 each?). But cover saves are almost gone now...
lord_blackfang wrote: I daresay that every single GW release is aimed at veterans. If GW actually believed in their (assumed?) policy of targeting 14-year olds who only stay in the game for a year or so, they wouldn't be constantly inventing new units instead of fixing bad old models.
They are constantly making new models though. Every month. Almost every week now, it seems. They do put out something new every week.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Why not make 'em HQ's? Badrukk HQ = Flash Gitz troops.
I can see it happening.
Would side step the need to make a freebooters expansion, though it would play really differently from any other ork army which would be great. If they do that count me in.
ceorron wrote: Would side step the need to make a freebooters expansion, though it would play really differently from any other ork army which would be great. If they do that count me in.
Yes of course. Hadn't thought about the DLC opportunities.
lord_blackfang wrote: I daresay that every single GW release is aimed at veterans. If GW actually believed in their (assumed?) policy of targeting 14-year olds who only stay in the game for a year or so, they wouldn't be constantly inventing new units instead of fixing bad old models.
They are constantly making new models though. Every month. Almost every week now, it seems. They do put out something new every week.
I... don't get how that contradicts what I said.
What I mean is that GW keeps inventing new units as opposed to updating existing models (translations from metal/failcast to plastic aside) and the only reason to do that is wanting to sell to veterans, who presumably already own all existing models. If GW really only targeted new players, they could just keep updating existing units. It's especially glaring in WHFB where some of the basic troops are ancient and horrible but don't get replaced.
Charles Rampant wrote: Yeah, the six transport capacity is a tough one to make use of. The WD articles kept talking about putting a Nob Squad in it, which would be a solid idea if it had an assault ramp, but totally useless otherwise. We'll have to see if the codex changes that.
Not totally useless, a nob squad 5 with a warboss or mek, one upgraded to painboy all with 'eavy armour could withstand the shots on the turn they get out and likely beat most opponents in CC that weren't dedicated assault troops like terminators, which means they won't be charged once they get out meaning that you then get the charge on whatever unit in your opponents deployment. With feel no pain and eavy armour and a Warboss in there they should do well.
I think it would be better with 5 burnas and a Mek, either captain or HQ though. Jump out skorch anything in the vicinity. They will have cover save from the KFF and army wide Feel no pain to keep them alive. If they get charged and not shot up some then they get D3 overwatch auto hit each with their burnas and then maybe used as a power weapon in CC. I get the feeling that burnas may get restricted to overwatch or power weapon in CC though.
If used like that it will have to be in tandem with other units to try to cut the fire-power going into the burnas.
happygolucky wrote: Ok so I hear about this new Dok an Big Gunz models but I cannot find any pics of these, can anyone tell me where these pics are?
Squidbot says he saw pictures of them. Nobody else has seen them.
Since Squidbot was spot-on about the g/morkanaut and the mega-armour nobs, it's pretty clear that he isn't just making stuff up.
Unfortunately, the only 'copy' of what he saw which is available to us is his memory.
When did he predict the meganobs? Other than the 'I was Kroot's source' business. And did Kroot ever confirm that?
You could ask Kroot. Would be a bit silly of me to say "IT WAS ME!"! in a place that Kroot could read and say "No it wasn't!"
Mega with shoulder attachment that I thought was possibly a new SAG (Probably isn't, given the SAG we saw in yesterday's picture, so no idea what it is) has a vice like claw, rather than bladed.
Seen some Megas with two CCW (Buzz saws).
Charles Rampant wrote: Yeah, the six transport capacity is a tough one to make use of. The WD articles kept talking about putting a Nob Squad in it, which would be a solid idea if it had an assault ramp, but totally useless otherwise. We'll have to see if the codex changes that.
You can fit 6 MANz currently and that's pretty good. Remember that taking up double space is not a rule on MANz, it's a rule on the Trukk and Battlewagon and the Gnaut has no such stipulation.
Yeah, they'll probably just make MANz Bulky in the next book, but so far we can still hope.
happygolucky wrote: Ok so I hear about this new Dok an Big Gunz models but I cannot find any pics of these, can anyone tell me where these pics are?
Squidbot says he saw pictures of them. Nobody else has seen them.
Since Squidbot was spot-on about the g/morkanaut and the mega-armour nobs, it's pretty clear that he isn't just making stuff up.
Unfortunately, the only 'copy' of what he saw which is available to us is his memory.
When did he predict the meganobs? Other than the 'I was Kroot's source' business. And did Kroot ever confirm that?
You could ask Kroot. Would be a bit silly of me to say "IT WAS ME!"! in a place that Kroot could read and say "No it wasn't!"
Mega with shoulder attachment that I thought was possibly a new SAG (Probably isn't, given the SAG we saw in yesterday's picture, so no idea what it is) has a vice like claw, rather than bladed.
Seen some Megas with two CCW (Buzz saws).
Sounding like the manz will be similar to the new Ogryns.
ceorron wrote: Would it be wrong to suggest that I get the feeling that this release is probably more aimed at the veterans than the younger player.
I daresay that every single GW release is aimed at veterans. If GW actually believed in their (assumed?) policy of targeting 14-year olds who only stay in the game for a year or so, they wouldn't be constantly inventing new units instead of fixing bad old models.
GW has changed it's customer focus of late, it now believes it's core demographic is a late 20s/early 30s male IT worker, likely with a family of 1-2 kids and a small group of friends who wargames with him.
What worries me is that these new guns will invalidate the old guns. and that lobba's killcannon etc will not be in the new codex.
And I really like the look of the old ones.
happygolucky wrote: Badrukk, Zagstruk and Snikrot already have models so they will be more HQ choices..
Koptas are meant to be plastic models so i'm looking forward to seeing them
i hope you're incorrect about badrukk, zagstruk, and snikrot, and that they remain unit upgrade characters, and do not become hq choices.
Happened with Daemons, unit upgrades such as the Changeling and Karnack, become HQ choices...
I'm just adding 2 and 2 together..
Yeah, but it's now no longer the end of the world if they do.
As a Detachment is now a HQ and a troop choice, we can just have Badrukks detachment of flash gits, Snikkrot's of Kommandoz, Zagstrukk's of Stormboyz and the main army all used at once... and if they really do make each specialized unit a troops choice, that's even better news.
happygolucky wrote: Badrukk, Zagstruk and Snikrot already have models so they will be more HQ choices..
Koptas are meant to be plastic models so i'm looking forward to seeing them
i hope you're incorrect about badrukk, zagstruk, and snikrot, and that they remain unit upgrade characters, and do not become hq choices.
Happened with Daemons, unit upgrades such as the Changeling and Karnack, become HQ choices...
I'm just adding 2 and 2 together..
Yeah, but it's now no longer the end of the world if they do.
As a Detachment is now a HQ and a troop choice, we can just have Badrukks detachment of flash gits, Snikkrot's of Kommandoz, Zagstrukk's of Stormboyz and the main army all used at once... and if they really do make each specialized unit a troops choice, that's even better news.
I didn't really intend to say that it was the end of the world, I like the change
Tbh all I hope is that all Kans (Dredds, Kans, FW, etc) get a good boost as that was the one playstyle I really liked from the Orks, and it was sad to see myself shlving them because people figured out that glancing is far more easier than penetrating..
That and I want to cram as many Meganobz in as possible..
Impunity wrote: So, did the Flash Gitz get any cheaper? I'm seeing 11- points in the corner of the picture, and it's 22/per extra up to 10.
If it's a cost reduction, that plus the loss of having to pay for every damn upgrade, plus the three hits, plus bs3, makes it all sound a lot more useful. Oh, and bosspoles on every one, standard. That's sweet when they already have two wounds.
Yeah, they were 25 points, so a small reduction. Since they all have bosspoles, it is likely that bosspoles do something new
They lost heavy armor though.
Last edition the +1 shot was mandatory, making them 30. The +1 AP was pretty much the same. So they ran 35, then one was flipped to a pain boy. And it was often worth it to make them cyborgs. Really, 10 were at least 440 points at the end of the day. They are half that now with better shooting.
Also great is the dedicated wagons and trukks. In the past they were like two heavies since you needed the wagon.
+1 shot and +1 strength were the mandatory ones. The -1 AP was a downgrade, not only giving you get's hot, but making the Flashgit's ration of points per MEQ/TEQ killed even worse.
Concidering that the boss pole pretty much was the same as +1 ld on ld 7 models, they might have reverted to that for the sake of simplicity.
All in all, bumping flash gits to three shots and allowing them BS3 finally makes them more worthwhile than shoota boyz or maybe lootaz (haven't done the math yet). It also remains to be seen what Barukk's rules will be.
I also fully expect the battlewagon/trukk dedicated transports to apear army-wide, just like the 'ere we go rule (why should it be exclusive to a shooting unit?). That would help ork combat a lot.
Flash gitz were always a unit who's greatest weaknesses were a) they were heavy support (competing against wagons and big gunz), b), no ride.
Both of these issues are fixed. I'm not sure if they're 'points' optimal, but they're definitely not an obvious 'pass' now.
I don't see their lack of armor as a big issue, because I think 90% of the time they will be riding in a battlewagon. (unless god forbid everyone's favorite unit goes up in price drastically).
Also I think with the new way the force org works, people will be taking a lot of Megabosses to give units slow and purposeful and tank for units. If the points remain similar, 100 points for a STR 10, T5, W3 +2 save dude with LD 10 will be a welcome sight in smaller, elite units, that otherwise are still schlepping around with LD7.
I too expect to see Battlewagons as dedicated transport for boyz, nobz, flashgitz and maybe some other specialist units.
That would let Ork players decide how to use their Heavy Support: GorkaMorkanauts, Big Gunz and/or Flashgitz.
I do have to say that I'm enjoying the Orky take over of GW. Between the website and White Dwarf... I'm glad that they've realized that Ork players want to have fun!
idk about everyone else, but this ork player has fun when he has
a good codex, and tableing guard, marines, and space elfs under our boots! what do we call tau?
Relly looking forward to painting some of these guys. The Morkanaut isnt really my cup of tea... looks kinda derpy but the flash gitz, mega nobz and weapon platforms are super cool
zachwho wrote: idk about everyone else, but this ork player has fun when he has
a good codex, and tableing guard, marines, and space elfs under our boots! what do we call tau?
zachwho wrote: idk about everyone else, but this ork player has fun when he has
a good codex, and tableing guard, marines, and space elfs under our boots! what do we call tau?
Fishies.
Also, tableing is well and good, but i'd prefer fair ballance. every unit viable, no helldrake-riptide, no pyrovore...
zachwho wrote: idk about everyone else, but this ork player has fun when he has
a good codex, and tableing guard, marines, and space elfs under our boots! what do we call tau?
Fishies.
Also, tabling is well and good, but i'd prefer fair balance. every unit viable, no helldrake-riptide, no pyrovore...
i dont know about you lot, but im pleased i painted me orks as Blood axes,.. im really hoping i can inc. some guard in my army, if Rumors are true.. my friend was talking about selling his old guard to buy more Death Korps...... Grrr,.. i feel like a kid looking at that big Present under the tree, 6 days before x-mas. what did i get, what did i get?? granted, i have to put up with my local gamers saying,... thats not an orky army,...
So, we have visual on M/Gorknaught, Flash Gits, Big Gunz, and most likely MANZ. Also, speculation on Kans with two gun arms. Anyone spotted anything else?
Mega with shoulder attachment that I thought was possibly a new SAG (Probably isn't, given the SAG we saw in yesterday's picture, so no idea what it is) has a vice like claw, rather than bladed.
Seen some Megas with two CCW (Buzz saws).
This tidbit? I sure hope we get a proper leak on the MANZ soon.
Also, tableing is well and good, but i'd prefer fair ballance. every unit viable, no helldrake-riptide, no pyrovore...
Yyyyeah... I don't think Orks are going to be tabling much this ed. either. Not when the designer's attitude is, as evidenced in the latest WD, "if all your Orks get shot to death, who cares, they're just Orks".
Bonzofever wrote: I too expect to see Battlewagons as dedicated transport for boyz, nobz, flashgitz and maybe some other specialist units.
That would let Ork players decide how to use their Heavy Support: GorkaMorkanauts, Big Gunz and/or Flashgitz.
I am really hoping for this... being limited to 3 BW's or haveing to steal one from the nobs is a pain in the but and HS was croweded before, now its even more so...
dedicated BW's for all would be sweeeeeet, and hey, not like GW doesnt want to sell more kits right?
Kanluwen wrote: Did anyone mention that the Gorkanaut has a rule called "Rampage"?
I didn't see it in any of the photos(they cut off shortly above that bit).
White Dwarf mentions it "gives D3 extra attacks in combat"
It's one of the USR, +D3 attacks if outnumbered in CC. Gorky also has a flamer, compared to Morky's KMB, so it's a bit more CC oriented. I wonder if Rampage and flamer are directed against tarpitting?
Dunno if Morky and it's KFF will see too much action - you can always slap an (allied) KFF-Mek into the Gorky, that's just 35 pts extra for the Mek basecost or so.
Multimoog wrote: While I understand people play Orks for different reasons than other armies, but after spending a couple hundred bucks on models it'd be nice to win a game ONCE in a while.
I'd like to introduce you to my Tyranids. You'd finally get to win a game and I could continue scratching my head over the fun, but entirely ineffectual army I just poured $700+ into. :-p
Atsjoem wrote: Are there actually rules for walker transports in cc? What does happen to the transported orks inside of it?
Knowing orks they are probably cheering.
or crying, cuz dere's a scrap goin' on, an' dey ain't in it...
Atsjoem wrote: Are there actually rules for walker transports in cc? What does happen to the transported orks inside of it?
Knowing orks they are probably cheering.
Does the Hierophant have any rules about this situation which would help?
nflagey wrote: were there any rules for the Squiggoth about assault?
I know it's not a walker, but it's also a singularity (MC/transport)
was it considered like an open-topped and that's it?
Yes, for firing and disembarking/embarking purposes.
easysauce wrote: I am really hoping for this... being limited to 3 BW's or haveing to steal one from the nobs is a pain in the but and HS was croweded before, now its even more so...
dedicated BW's for all would be sweeeeeet, and hey, not like GW doesnt want to sell more kits right?
Exactly I'm pretty sure this is the way to go for GW!
prowla wrote: Dunno if Morky and it's KFF will see too much action - you can always slap an (allied) KFF-Mek into the Gorky, that's just 35 pts extra for the Mek basecost or so.
Yeah, but with the KFF "bubble nerf" this equipment becomes either too precious or completely useless, depending on your strategy.
Now 50 points does sound like a pretty steep price to pay!
Squidbot wrote: Mega with shoulder attachment that I thought was possibly a new SAG (Probably isn't, given the SAG we saw in yesterday's picture, so no idea what it is) has a vice like claw, rather than bladed.
Seen some Megas with two CCW (Buzz saws).
I don't understand the confusion. What happens when you assault a land raider with some dudesmen inside it. You fight it, if nothing happens nothing happens. If it blows up, people inside can die, outside as well. But since there is only a front exit, they might be trapped inside and die. Pretend its a land raider that gets to punch you in the face too.
Orock wrote: I don't understand the confusion. What happens when you assault a land raider with some dudesmen inside it. You fight it, if nothing happens nothing happens. If it blows up, people inside can die, outside as well. But since there is only a front exit, they might be trapped inside and die. Pretend its a land raider that gets to punch you in the face too.
A landraider can't be locked in combat, a Walker can.
Orock wrote: I don't understand the confusion. What happens when you assault a land raider with some dudesmen inside it. You fight it, if nothing happens nothing happens. If it blows up, people inside can die, outside as well. But since there is only a front exit, they might be trapped inside and die. Pretend its a land raider that gets to punch you in the face too.
A landraider can't be locked in combat, a Walker can.
So what. There's nothing going on there that would need special rules coverage. Do you have room to disembark at least 1" away from enemy models? Yes? Fine. No? Tough gak. Just like every other transport.
Hold on, I blew up a landraider, completely surrounded by MANZ, this weekend and all the termies inside sat nicely in the ruble because it is so large that they were still 1 inch away from the big ladz. No one died inside the landraider.
Greyhound wrote: Hold on, I blew up a landraider, completely surrounded by MANZ, this weekend and all the termies inside sat nicely in the ruble because it is so large that they were still 1 inch away from the big ladz. No one died inside the landraider.
yep. terminators inside a land raider... like diamonds in an adamantium box...
Greyhound wrote: Hold on, I blew up a landraider, completely surrounded by MANZ, this weekend and all the termies inside sat nicely in the ruble because it is so large that they were still 1 inch away from the big ladz. No one died inside the landraider.
nope rules say you have to disembark from one of the exits, you can sit in the center, as long as one of the exits isn't blocked. Sounds like you got cheated.
Greyhound wrote: Hold on, I blew up a landraider, completely surrounded by MANZ, this weekend and all the termies inside sat nicely in the ruble because it is so large that they were still 1 inch away from the big ladz. No one died inside the landraider.
nope rules say you have to disembark from one of the exits, you can sit in the center, as long as one of the exits isn't blocked. Sounds like you got cheated.
If all the exits are blocked their is an emergency disembark as well.
But if the Land Raider exploded then it's kind of hard to disembark from something that's removed from the table.
We looked up the rules at the time and explode read something like:
replace the vehicle with a crater and put the transported unit inside the crater.
We saw the rule about disembarking but it was for wrecked.
I don't have the rulebook right now I'll check again.
Also since we're on the subject, when an assault vehicle is wrecked by glancing, which page is the rule concerning the effect on embarked troops? We couldn't find it during the game.
I'm not asking for the rule here on the forum, just the page number and we'll look it up.
Greyhound wrote: We looked up the rules at the time and explode read something like:
replace the vehicle with a crater and put the transported unit inside the crater.
We saw the rule about disembarking but it was for wrecked.
I don't have the rulebook right now I'll check again.
Also since we're on the subject, when an assault vehicle is wrecked by glancing, which page is the rule concerning the effect on embarked troops? We couldn't find it during the game.
I'm not asking for the rule here on the forum, just the page number and we'll look it up.
7th doesn't use craters for exploded vehicles. Are you playing 6th?
And it's a pinning test for the unit if the vehicle explodes or is wrecked.
Greyhound wrote: No we played 7th, but we probably get things wrong!
you are correct we did not use a crater, just removed the vehicle.
pinning is irrelevant, terminators, and boys are fearless
Terminators have't been fearless.. ever. I'd recheck your 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th edition SM codex. (If you meant dark angels, then you should specify as they aren't simply terminators)
so last Saturday, we already had the cover on the next WD
this week, so far, we "just" have some info about the Flash Gitz, nothing else ... and it looks like the page that was leaked is from another WD, not the codex
So basically you get half a dakkajet worth of hits, or a quarter of a dakkajet during a waaagh.
Just think that if you had 2 Gorkanaut (or is it the morkanaut) you would get 7 hits.
For the same price you'd have 3 dakkajets for ~20 hits, or ~40 hits during the waaagh
in terms of firepower the deffstorm is underwhelming.
But let's ignore the dakkajet which is OP,
The Deffstorm is basically 3 big shootas, wired togther with a bit of extra ST. You will get pretty much that firepower from 2 deff dread with 2 big shootas each.
Crazyterran wrote: So, why buy a Morkanaut instead of a Stompa? I'm confused.
Well, the two nauts are point wise a lot cheaper then a stompa. Fully kitted out I would say it's about a third of the cost. Other then that I would like to see them in action to make a true guess.
Crazyterran wrote: So, why buy a Morkanaut instead of a Stompa? I'm confused.
If price is your concern, let me tell you something: I've got just two games with my Stompa since December; one, a demonstration of Imperial Knights at the local GW, the other was a prearranged game to try out Escalation/Stronghold Assault with my pals -It wasn't all that fun so there's little chance we'll be repeating it in the future.
The Stompa is a relatively tame Superheavy, but by sheer bad luck it shares book with the broken abomination that is the Eldar titan. You'll find that, for most groups, Escalation is a big NO. And a superheavy isn't something I'll be bringing to a pick-up game at the store.
I know the difference in cost between Stompas and 'nauts is minimal, but one is a model you'll have no trouble fielding without user consent, the other is a pricey display piece.
Thats exactly what I agree with agent. While the prices are close, the fact that one is an apoc unit and the other is a basic heavy support choice is a huge difference.
Crazyterran wrote: So, why buy a Morkanaut instead of a Stompa? I'm confused.
If price is your concern, let me tell you something: I've got just two games with my Stompa since December; one, a demonstration of Imperial Knights at the local GW, the other was a prearranged game to try out Escalation/Stronghold Assault with my pals -It wasn't all that fun so there's little chance we'll be repeating it in the future.
The Stompa is a relatively tame Superheavy, but by sheer bad luck it shares book with the broken abomination that is the Eldar titan. You'll find that, for most groups, Escalation is a big NO. And a superheavy isn't something I'll be bringing to a pick-up game at the store.
I know the difference in cost between Stompas and 'nauts is minimal, but one is a model you'll have no trouble fielding without user consent, the other is a pricey display piece.
Do you still need opponents consent for a stompa? Isnt it under the combined arms FOC now?
There actually is a little blurb in the 7th Edition book that mentions that both players need to agree to what is and is not allowed before building their lists, meaning that you're well within your rights to say "No, I don't want to play with Lords of War."
Granted, it's no different from any other edition where you could...y'know...simply say "No, I don't want to play with Lords of War," but now there's an official rule about it, so there'sthat.
Billagio wrote: You could say that about any unit though. But I see your point.
That's hyperbole and you know it.
Yes, you could say that about any unit. However, if I try to play my Stompa in a regular game, and someone says "No", it makes sense, I understand, and I put it away because it's reasonable. But if I try to play 10 lootas in a squad and someone says "No", they look like a total dick, and I happily go play someone else, remembering never to play them again.
Billagio wrote: You could say that about any unit though. But I see your point.
Yea you can say that about any unit but its far far less likely outside of Apoc units. I know if i went to a friendly game and someone plopped a titan down i would say "HELL NO" and give him the chance to edit his list, or i'll just walk away. However field anything outside apoc i'll give it a shot since even the Wraithknight spam is able to be countered with a casual list - i just suck at it lol.
I dont have a stompa sadly, if the rules are indeed in the normal ork codex now (given that pre-order, i wouldnt be surprised) i'll kitbash one just to say i got one and for the occasional big game i play. But, i'll probably field a couple 'Naughts just because its one of those things the orks are lacking - something incredibly durable. Aside from Tau bringing a fusion bomb or someone getting a lucky dice shot, it wont die that easily since its 5HP and not an opentopped. GL Glancing that to death too lol.
Also per the dakkajet vs naught comparison, its a durability vs power thing. Dakkajets are AV10, and it is the sole reason that thing isnt broken as hell. If it was even AV11 front it would be dramatically more powerful because then the common troop couldnt force a jink save anymore (outside tau). If my dakkajets are alive and not firing snaps because i had to jink, either i got lucky as hell or you did something wrong. I will force planes to jink before i will try to kill them outside of my 1-2 units that can actually do it effectively, because thats a turn where that plane probably wont do jack squat.
This is why i bring a Riptide in my lists. Unless spammed they arent anywhere near as broken as people scream they are. I bring one because odds are you wont kill it and i will have at least 1 big gun throughout the game, whereas my broadsides or hammerheads can get sniped at a distance easily.
Goresaw wrote: Flash gitz were always a unit who's greatest weaknesses were a) they were heavy support (competing against wagons and big gunz), b), no ride.
Both of these issues are fixed. I'm not sure if they're 'points' optimal, but they're definitely not an obvious 'pass' now.
I don't see their lack of armor as a big issue, because I think 90% of the time they will be riding in a battlewagon. (unless god forbid everyone's favorite unit goes up in price drastically).
Also I think with the new way the force org works, people will be taking a lot of Megabosses to give units slow and purposeful and tank for units. If the points remain similar, 100 points for a STR 10, T5, W3 +2 save dude with LD 10 will be a welcome sight in smaller, elite units, that otherwise are still schlepping around with LD7.
Billagio wrote: You could say that about any unit though. But I see your point.
That's hyperbole and you know it.
Yes, you could say that about any unit. However, if I try to play my Stompa in a regular game, and someone says "No", it makes sense, I understand, and I put it away because it's reasonable. But if I try to play 10 lootas in a squad and someone says "No", they look like a total dick, and I happily go play someone else, remembering never to play them again.
That is true now, and will be for a while as a 6th edition hangover, but in 12 months you'll have plenty of peeps out there who only have played 7th and consider lords of war the equivalent of elites or fast attack - simply another an option for their army in the FoC. You sweepingly banning playing against all of them would be as daft as someone currently saying "sorry I refuse to play against any heavy support options."
Hi guys! I'm curious where anyone is getting the weapon stats or the vehicle stats for the Gork/morks. At the cost of sounding ignorant,is this just leaked info? Or I'd it from another book? If so, what book? I've play for years but never really kept up w/ the peripheral books (I.e. Where the stomps stats are etc). Any info would be fantastic! Thx in advance. Just started playing orks again after dropping them for the past couple years.
Billagio wrote: You could say that about any unit though. But I see your point.
That's hyperbole and you know it.
Yes, you could say that about any unit. However, if I try to play my Stompa in a regular game, and someone says "No", it makes sense, I understand, and I put it away because it's reasonable. But if I try to play 10 lootas in a squad and someone says "No", they look like a total dick, and I happily go play someone else, remembering never to play them again.
That is true now, and will be for a while as a 6th edition hangover, but in 12 months you'll have plenty of peeps out there who only have played 7th and consider lords of war the equivalent of elites or fast attack - simply another an option for their army in the FoC. You sweepingly banning playing against all of them would be as daft as someone currently saying "sorry I refuse to play against any heavy support options."
I dont think that it'll change at all. Fortifications were something that was introduced in 6th, and noone said 'im bringing an aegis' followed by someone else saying 'im not playing against you then' It just wasnt said. The apoc units are different. Much more powerful and imbalanced in a normal 40k game.
Sure, in tournaments you wont have a choice but play against it if someone brings it, but in a friendly game at home, or in a FLGS, you can say no to it, and i dont think that people saying no to it will change. They've been separate (apoc and normal) for 6 editions now, thats how it should stay unless agreed upon beforehand imo.
Edit: Just realised looking at the OP of the thread. There rumours on there for the flashgits seem to be 100% incorrect. So who knows what else may be incorrect on there...
"Flash Gitz
Weapons now have random range instead of random AP New range is 12 + 3D6”. Triple 1 on range causes Overheat
Weapon upgrade options include +1Bs, +1 Attack, Blast, Skyfire "
What I mean is that GW keeps inventing new units as opposed to updating existing models (translations from metal/failcast to plastic aside) and the only reason to do that is wanting to sell to veterans, who presumably already own all existing models. If GW really only targeted new players, they could just keep updating existing units. It's especially glaring in WHFB where some of the basic troops are ancient and horrible but don't get replaced.
You're trying to say that every release of GW's is aimed at veterans and you make the distinction of new "units" as opposed to new "models" when frankly the distinction doesn't matter. GW's standard operating procedure within their stores is to sell starter kits. It's what their staff are instructed to do. Beyond that is just a bonus, but they'd rather 20 kids buy a starter kit and drop the hobby next month (only to be replaced by another 20 kids and their starter kit) than one kid buy a starter kit and then buy something every other month for the next year.
Also per the dakkajet vs naught comparison, its a durability vs power thing. Dakkajets are AV10, and it is the sole reason that thing isnt broken as hell. If it was even AV11 front it would be dramatically more powerful because then the common troop couldnt force a jink save anymore (outside tau). If my dakkajets are alive and not firing snaps because i had to jink, either i got lucky as hell or you did something wrong. I will force planes to jink before i will try to kill them outside of my 1-2 units that can actually do it effectively, because thats a turn where that plane probably wont do jack squat.
This is why i bring a Riptide in my lists. Unless spammed they arent anywhere near as broken as people scream they are. I bring one because odds are you wont kill it and i will have at least 1 big gun throughout the game, whereas my broadsides or hammerheads can get sniped at a distance easily.
The thing is, the 'naut will probably not shoot anything before turn 2-3, due to his slow speed. Once it shoots I don't think you'll get more than a turn or maybe 2 of shooting. That was my experience on the weekend when I proxied it, but maybe if you play more static armies you would have a better chance.
That's what I get with a dakkajet, nothing in turn 1, usually turn2-3 I arrive, get a turn (or 2) of shooting then it's over. that's why I drew a comparison. The Dakkajet ALSO draws fire, while the 'naut doesn't.
It's actually good that the dakkajet takes bullets in, it's that many bullets not in something else.
The dakkajet can be shot before it shoots, that's true, due to a dedicated unit with the right weapons (like your example with the Riptide), but in the same way, a few assault bike with multi-melta can drive up to the 'naut and blow it up in a turn before it even shot.
Also per the dakkajet vs naught comparison, its a durability vs power thing. Dakkajets are AV10, and it is the sole reason that thing isnt broken as hell. If it was even AV11 front it would be dramatically more powerful because then the common troop couldnt force a jink save anymore (outside tau). If my dakkajets are alive and not firing snaps because i had to jink, either i got lucky as hell or you did something wrong. I will force planes to jink before i will try to kill them outside of my 1-2 units that can actually do it effectively, because thats a turn where that plane probably wont do jack squat.
This is why i bring a Riptide in my lists. Unless spammed they arent anywhere near as broken as people scream they are. I bring one because odds are you wont kill it and i will have at least 1 big gun throughout the game, whereas my broadsides or hammerheads can get sniped at a distance easily.
The thing is, the 'naut will probably not shoot anything before turn 2-3, due to his slow speed. Once it shoots I don't think you'll get more than a turn or maybe 2 of shooting. That was my experience on the weekend when I proxied it, but maybe if you play more static armies you would have a better chance.
That's what I get with a dakkajet, nothing in turn 1, usually turn2-3 I arrive, get a turn (or 2) of shooting then it's over. that's why I drew a comparison. The Dakkajet ALSO draws fire, while the 'naut doesn't.
It's actually good that the dakkajet takes bullets in, it's that many bullets not in something else.
The dakkajet can be shot before it shoots, that's true, due to a dedicated unit with the right weapons (like your example with the Riptide), but in the same way, a few assault bike with multi-melta can drive up to the 'naut and blow it up in a turn before it even shot.
Well with regards to the dakkajet (and you touched on it), anything with interceptor will likely bring it down before it can do anything useful. Interceptor units are usually things that have high strength, and its only AV10... So imo, while the naughts may be more cumbersome, i'd say theyre much more survivable (2 extra HP, 3 extra armour)
H.B.M.C. wrote: You're trying to say that every release of GW's is aimed at veterans and you make the distinction of new "units" as opposed to new "models" when frankly the distinction doesn't matter. GW's standard operating procedure within their stores is to sell starter kits. It's what their staff are instructed to do. Beyond that is just a bonus, but they'd rather 20 kids buy a starter kit and drop the hobby next month (only to be replaced by another 20 kids and their starter kit) than one kid buy a starter kit and then buy something every other month for the next year.
Starter kit. One birthday. One Christmas.
That's the way it works.
Then why does anything else even exist? If this assumed policy were true, it would make more sense to at least provide a variety of starters for multiple armies. Why release, say, Exocrines if not specifically for the veteran gamer? A little kid would be just as happy with a 10 year old Carnifex kit, he doesn't own one yet but we do so we need new releases to keep us buying.
I'll be the first to agree that GW are grossly incompetent, but I can't believe they're sinking 4-5 digit numbers into developing a dozen new model kits each year that they don't really plan to sell.
The comparison between a Naut and a Dakkajet isn't even worth making. They serve completely different purposes in a game, especially if you're taking a Morkanaut (which, if people take either, is probably going to be the one seen more often).
Or at least I was. I don't rate the Deffstorm, as Deffly at all, and it's not a storm.
The dakkajet has a similar ST, high rate of fire weapon and can target the same units as the Deffstorm and land much more deff than this glorfied Big shoota.
Agree, the Gorkanaut is pretty underwhelming. No option for KFF, and shooting you can get anywhere in the codex. Rampage is nice, but AV13, 5 S10 attacks plus S8 hammer of wrath should already settle most fights - unless fighting a T6+/EWMC or character, in which case rampage wouldn't apply anyways.
Plus if you make a Mork, you can convert the extra Gork bitz into artillery/vehicle-mounted gunz Somewhat alleviates the high sticker price of the model, and if there's an Ork player who doesn't get into at least a little kitbashing I don't want to meet him (every single one of my HQ and Big Gunz have been built from scratch, including KFF and SAG)
The problem with the gorkanauts weapons is the same problem almost all Ork weapons have..GW doesn't understand math.
Random shots = bad, low BS = bad.. Both = double bad. They need to base things off of average # of hits, not off whatever they're using. 3 hits per shot with a super expensive walker is a joke.
What exactly is this unit supposed to do? Carry a unit for no reason? and shoot with guns that aren't good? Its only AV13 too so that's not exactly the most durable..
1 rifleman dread gets more hit on average than this thing and it only has 4 shots!
Yeah, that has always been a problem for orks. They cost shooting models by the best random result and as if it were on a BS4 model. The only reason the dakkajet turned out so well was their obsession with tons of special rules at that time, in that case twin-linked and strafing run.
And waaagh! plane. I really hope that we get to keep that special rule, since otherwise that would be quite a big nerf to one of our somewhat decent units.
Bonde wrote: And waaagh! plane. I really hope that we get to keep that special rule, since otherwise that would be quite a big nerf to one of our somewhat decent units.
i honestly dont see that being kept. idk why, but i dont like its chances..
I don't mind the Gorkanaut being sub-effective and would have bought 2 straight away if it was 150 points.
I think orks should be easy to hurt (so I don't mind AV13), poor at shooting BUT they should be numerous. When the ork player sets up in front of you you should have the thought: "did I bring enough bullets!?"
I'm cool with giving first blood, and second, and third, I'm also happy with having Gorkanauts blowing up left and right, but for every unit that die I want to make sure there are still 5 or 6 moving closer.
At the moment though all my games are pretty much written off by turn3, as I don't have enough resources to throw at my opponent.
Reidentski wrote: Hi guys! I'm curious where anyone is getting the weapon stats or the vehicle stats for the Gork/morks. At the cost of sounding ignorant,is this just leaked info? Or I'd it from another book? If so, what book? I've play for years but never really kept up w/ the peripheral books (I.e. Where the stomps stats are etc). Any info would be fantastic! Thx in advance. Just started playing orks again after dropping them for the past couple years.
I didnt think itd be 230 points... jees. Just did a fully kitted out warboss without bike. Something like 128 points.. idk if the walker is worth 2 warbosses...
Most LoW choices are not worth their points Only two of the AM tanks, the ascended Ctan, and the Eldar Titan really break the game. In all cases it is due to large templates ignoring cover or D strength shooting attacks. The stomp gets a boot up into that category if you have a burns unit containing three meks and a off big mek in there. 5+ cover and recovering an average of 2 HP a turn makes it unkillable.
But, if knights are allowed, then LoW should be too. Knights have none of the rules that balance the super heavies.
I am looking forward to the morkanaut. Burnas inside to repair him, off, and in a dread mob containing the following:
2 kff big meks
2 units of 25 shoots boyz
2 deff dredd
1 morkanaut
12 kans
1mega dredd.
Dragonzord wrote: I didnt think itd be 230 points... jees. Just did a fully kitted out warboss without bike. Something like 128 points.. idk if the walker is worth 2 warbosses...
Exactly. At first I was thrilled to see this new kit. Rules sounded promising enough, grot riggerz giving "It Will Not Die" was kind of cool.
Then, the KFF nerf came (6" for models, not units). Heavy blow. I've always played KFF Big Meks since 3rd edition Codex.
Finally, it was the point cost: 280 points for a KFF Morkanaut with lame blast weapon (not even melta or AP1!). Duh. I guess you could have two heavy Battlewagons instead, with Deff Rolla for S10 hits, and front AV/14... Still much better choice in my opinion.
Last night, I was thinking about all this. The only way to play Orks on foot would be a change concerning Mob Rule, giving FNP 5+. But then, what would Painboyz do? Re-roll FNP, or 4+? ... Doesn't seem likely. With all AM weapons ignoring saves, even bikers are less interesting to play.
I'm really hoping for a change and so far I'm still concerned about the effectiveness of Ork armies.
Also, let me call bs on Big Gun / Buggy combo kit. The reason is quite obvious, really. That would include:
- 3-4 different weapons for the Big Gun
- 3 different weapons for the buggy
- 3 grotz for handling the Big Gun + Mek/Runtherd
- 2 boyz for the buggy
... not to mention the buggy in two halves.
While the Deffstorm mega-shoota itself maybe less 'shooty' than an entire dakkajet (note: including Flyboss+ extra Supra-shoota for 130 pts total), I don't think it invalidates the entire Gorkanaught model since it also comes equipped with (2) TL Big Shootas, (2) Rokkit launchas, skorcha, and the Klaw of Gork. So the Gorkanaught at BS2 is throwing out 3D6, S6, AP4 shots; (6) TL, S5, AP5 shots; and (2) S8, AP3 shots (+/- skorcha) vs. the dakkajet's BS3 shooting at (9) S6, AP 4 shots.
Also, the dakkajet is rather fragile due it's has AV10, so I generally need to bring at least 2 dakkajets, which fully loaded runs 260 pts...and may not last 2 turns, and cannot claim objectives. The Gorkanaught costs 245 points, AV 13/13/12, plenty of 'shootiness', transports 6 models, can block LOS, has CC ability, and claim objectives. So, while the dakkajet jet is a great FA choice, it plays an entirely differently role in an army than the Gorkanaught.
In general, I tend to lean more towards the Morkanaught for my playing style, but I think either of these models, when taken as a whole, can play an important role.
Yeah, the model isn't a top shelf choice from a pure competitive sense, but so what? Are we really at that point? Granted, the price makes it a struggle given its competitiveness, but it is a must have for a true irk walker fan.
I'm really kind of hoping MekBoyz get the Techpriest Engineseer treatment. Outside the Force Org unit that can be taken in groups, instead of having to take some unrelated unit and turn them into Meks.
Hm... the only real advantage of the new walker is it's high HP, grot riggers, and the option to transport a squad of meks to repair it on the go.
You know what else does that? A battlewagon with grot riggers, space for a whole loota squad including repairing meks and some other armament strapped on.
I think a whole squad of lootas with a souped up battlewagon would clock in at slightly below 400 pts, offering higher mobility, more dakka (cannon, 4 bigh shootas and 12 lootas that can actually shoot from inside the vehicle) and with models most of us allready have.
True, but the morkanaut demands attention before it can hit the enemy line. In a dredd mob list it can be a very difficult to stop hard point that forces the opponent to respond to it. Only a close range melt shot will have a real chance of killing it outright. When it gets within charge range, it hits with 5 S10 attacks and will be able to tie up or grind most things to bits when supported by other walkers.
Kosake wrote: Hm... the only real advantage of the new walker is it's high HP, grot riggers, and the option to transport a squad of meks to repair it on the go.
You know what else does that? A battlewagon with grot riggers, space for a whole loota squad including repairing meks and some other armament strapped on.
I think a whole squad of lootas with a souped up battlewagon would clock in at slightly below 400 pts, offering higher mobility, more dakka (cannon, 4 bigh shootas and 12 lootas that can actually shoot from inside the vehicle) and with models most of us allready have.
You forgot being able to take a KFF and 4 weapons shooting S8 shots. It also has higher side and rear-armor than a battlewagon, as well having AP1 in combat. Mobility also comes at the price of snap-shoting all those lootaz, who can now be killed by templates without needing to crack the battlewagon. Also note that, on top of the weaker armor, the battlewagon has one less HP and +1 to damage tables, making it more likely to die to shooting in one turn than the walker. Even regular anti-tank has a chance to explode it, and in turn kill a bunch of lootaz.
Also, as mentioned before, Morkanauts are a heavy support choice for a footslogging army, battlewagons are not. There shouldn't ever be the issue of taking one or the other, you either pick battlewagons and have them define your army, or you take footsloggers and take some slower heavy support choice.
With lootas, the cannon and big shootas you have a fairly large range, so you give plenty of incentive for the enemy to do something about it allready. Also, should anything come into charge range, well, tank shock with deffrolla? D6 S10 attacks iirc?
Kosake wrote: Hm... the only real advantage of the new walker is it's high HP, grot riggers, and the option to transport a squad of meks to repair it on the go.
You know what else does that? A battlewagon with grot riggers, space for a whole loota squad including repairing meks and some other armament strapped on.
I think a whole squad of lootas with a souped up battlewagon would clock in at slightly below 400 pts, offering higher mobility, more dakka (cannon, 4 bigh shootas and 12 lootas that can actually shoot from inside the vehicle) and with models most of us allready have.
You forgot being able to take a KFF and 4 weapons shooting S8 shots. It also has higher side and rear-armor than a battlewagon, as well having AP1 in combat. Mobility also comes at the price of snap-shoting all those lootaz, who can now be killed by templates without needing to crack the battlewagon. Also note that, on top of the weaker armor, the battlewagon has one less HP and +1 to damage tables, making it more likely to die to shooting in one turn than the walker. Even regular anti-tank has a chance to explode it, and in turn kill a bunch of lootaz.
Also, as mentioned before, Morkanauts are a heavy support choice for a footslogging army, battlewagons are not. There shouldn't ever be the issue of taking one or the other, you either pick battlewagons and have them define your army, or you take footsloggers and take some slower heavy support choice.
I can see the merit for footsloggers, good argument. But then again, why not just drive slower, keeping your armor to the front?
I generally do that with my wagons. The templates hitting guys inside isn't too big a deal though, since that means most of the time, whoever vented the template is within charge range of other boyz or will be shot to bits (torrent weapons still need to be within charge range).
I like the model and can see it being fun, which really is the point. An incredibly durable CC machine that demands attention. Lets the rest of the army move in without taking as much fire.
PhillyT wrote: I generally do that with my wagons. The templates hitting guys inside isn't too big a deal though, since that means most of the time, whoever vented the template is within charge range of other boyz or will be shot to bits (torrent weapons still need to be within charge range).
I like the model and can see it being fun, which really is the point. An incredibly durable CC machine that demands attention. Lets the rest of the army move in without taking as much fire.
Kosake wrote: I can see the merit for footsloggers, good argument. But then again, why not just drive slower, keeping your armor to the front?
Well, battlewagons rarely get to use their awesome front armor, due to the shape of the model, and if they do, it can still be punched through by armourbane, lances or S10. Battlewagons offer speed first, and protection second, but you actually pay points for that speed. If you don't need it, you might as well not spend points on it. It might become a viable strategy if battlewagons see a serious drop in price, but right now, you're spending 110+ points on something you didn't need in the first place. An additional warboss, more lootaz or boyz might do more for your army than a battlewagon moving at combat speed.
A lot of battlewagons become wrecks when driving towards the enemy at full speed, there is no reason to expect them to do better when going a third of that distance every turn.
Greyhound wrote: No we played 7th, but we probably get things wrong!
you are correct we did not use a crater, just removed the vehicle.
pinning is irrelevant, terminators, and boys are fearless
^ boyz locked in the walking wardrobe don't have fearless.
true dat, but no one shoots the walking wardrobe.
I could drop a suicide Metla Crisis suit down to take it out which costs 58 points.
58 points to take out a 230 point model and remove a 5++ save bubble from your other units. Pretty easy pickings for a big reward, just needs a space to drop. So you'll be bunched around it to stop that and (if the save is on a model by model basis, rather than unit) instead makes you more susceptible to blasts.
Kosake wrote: I can see the merit for footsloggers, good argument. But then again, why not just drive slower, keeping your armor to the front?
Well, battlewagons rarely get to use their awesome front armor, due to the shape of the model, and if they do, it can still be punched through by armourbane, lances or S10. Battlewagons offer speed first, and protection second, but you actually pay points for that speed. If you don't need it, you might as well not spend points on it. It might become a viable strategy if battlewagons see a serious drop in price, but right now, you're spending 110+ points on something you didn't need in the first place. An additional warboss, more lootaz or boyz might do more for your army than a battlewagon moving at combat speed.
A lot of battlewagons become wrecks when driving towards the enemy at full speed, there is no reason to expect them to do better when going a third of that distance every turn.
Couldn't agree more and it really does depend on the list you play---fast vehicles to deliver troops vs. Slow and steady. Plus, I hate when the Battlewagon gets wrecked/exploded and I lose half of my troops...granted the vehicle damage chart is a little better in 7th...and while the same thing could happen to the a G/M-naught, the tactics are different, and you're only loosing about 6 burnaboyz/Mek boyz.
I was thinking about the firepower per points of the Gorkanaut in comparison to the Landraider Crusader (since it serves a similar purpose) and the Battlewagon full of shoota boyz (current rendition) so I did some mathhammering
Battlewagon
4 Big Shootas : 12 shots (4 hits) [str 5]
+ open topped : 39 Shootas (13 hits) [str4]
17 hits total
265 points (245 without the Big Shootas)
(woulnd comparisons are against T4 targets, which imo is the target these units (t3-t4 infantry) are supposed to be aiming for)
so the Gorkanaut has a comparable Dakka to the crusader landraider, doing more hits at long range, and less at rapid fire range. But the Gorkanaut weapons are higher strength so even at rapidfire range, the gorkanaut still almost equal production of woulnds on average (0.47 woulnds in favor of the Crusader)
Compared to a ShootaWagon the Gorkanaut firepower is lessened, since a Shoota wagon, even without the big shootas, produces more woulnds then the Gorkanaut (0.8 more on average. The advantage of the Shootawagon goes up when Big Shootas are added (2.14 more woulnds on average)
But again the Gorkanaut weapons have higher str, so his weapons gives him more flexibility
So overall the Gorkanaut is quite comparable to his counterparts in firepower, even outshining them in some aspects
Jidmah wrote: Well, battlewagons rarely get to use their awesome front armor, due to the shape of the model
I don't know if this is the English term, but "refused flank" is easy to get when you play a line of 3 battlewagons (45° angle in front). Then again, it doesn't really help against some specialist weapons or Vendettas for example. I really hope their AV will be equal to LR (14/13/10) or that the unit will see a drop in points (90=>70points?).
Delevarius wrote: I was thinking about the firepower per points of the Gorkanaut in comparison to the Landraider Crusader (since it serves a similar purpose) and the Battlewagon full of shoota boyz (current rendition) so I did some mathhammering
Battlewagon
4 Big Shootas : 12 shots (4 hits) [str 5]
+ open topped : 39 Shootas (13 hits) [str4]
17 hits total
265 points (245 without the Big Shootas)
(woulnd comparisons are against T4 targets, which imo is the target these units (t3-t4 infantry) are supposed to be aiming for)
so the Gorkanaut has a comparable Dakka to the crusader landraider, doing more hits at long range, and less at rapid fire range. But the Gorkanaut weapons are higher strength so even at rapidfire range, the gorkanaut still almost equal production of woulnds on average (0.47 woulnds in favor of the Crusader)
Compared to a ShootaWagon the Gorkanaut firepower is lessened, since a Shoota wagon, even without the big shootas, produces more woulnds then the Gorkanaut (0.8 more on average. The advantage of the Shootawagon goes up when Big Shootas are added (2.14 more woulnds on average)
But again the Gorkanaut weapons have higher str, so his weapons gives him more flexibility
So overall the Gorkanaut is quite comparable to his counterparts in firepower, even outshining them in some aspects
Well, averages are fairly irrelevant to mathhammer, as the game is at best 6 turns long (and most units are on the table even less).
Thus measures such as variance (or std. deviation), range and other measures of the spread would be far more important to determine the "worth" of a unit, unless you're games last 100+ turns or something along those lines.
Battlewagon + 10 Flash Gits (as seen in WD leak):
4 Big Shootas : 12 shots (4 hits) [str5]
+ open topped : 30 Snazzguns (10 or 15 hits) [str5]
14/19 hits total (moving/stationary)
330 points
So Gorkanaut does 5.69 wounds to T4 (1.90 MEQ killed)
Crusader does 3.41 or 6.07 wounds (1.14 or 2.02 MEQ killed)
Shootawagon does 9.17 wounds (3.06 MEQ killed)
Morkanaut does 4.30 wounds (2.82 MEQ killed)
Flash Git wagon is 9.33 or 12.66 wounds (4.89 or 6.22 MEQ killed)
Ignored in all of that is the fact that neither Naut is really a shooting model. They are more like the knights. They can contribute to the shooting phase, but they are priced with the expectation that they will charge something.
PhillyT wrote: I generally do that with my wagons. The templates hitting guys inside isn't too big a deal though, since that means most of the time, whoever vented the template is within charge range of other boyz or will be shot to bits (torrent weapons still need to be within charge range).
I like the model and can see it being fun, which really is the point. An incredibly durable CC machine that demands attention. Lets the rest of the army move in without taking as much fire.
Try charging the hell turkey.
If the best the turkey can do is put that template down on wagons, then the battle is probably yours to win anyway.
PhillyT wrote: Yeah, the model isn't a top shelf choice from a pure competitive sense, but so what? Are we really at that point? Granted, the price makes it a struggle given its competitiveness, but it is a must have for a true irk walker fan.
No, the point is, if I can field two of any other unit I like a lot, then why would I field this instead. Sure, it's Orky and awesome looking, but I'd rather have more kans, dreds, big gunz, or battle wagons than one of those.
There is a discrepancy between the WD text and the table listings of the G/M-naughts. In the text they say that the (2) rokkit launchas are TL, whereas the TL entry is not listed in the tables. The models themselves seem to have the rokkits in pairs perhaps suggesting they are TL...although that may be completely irrelevant. While the overall conclusion wouldn't be substantially changed, having (2) TL rokkit launchas would certainly help.
Can someone do the math comparing the Mega Dread with the new walkers? 175pts for an av 13 13 11 with a 5+ inv, has 2 big shootas and either a kill kannon (str 7 ap3 large blast) or a "Supa Skorcha" Str 6 ap3 template) and it has a rippa klaw 3 attacks base 4 on the charge s10 ap2 with sunder (re roll armor pen result if you dont like it) I can take 2 for 350 pts. Is that better for killing MEQ?
Im at work and dont have the time or meterials to do all the stats.
Karl Hammer wrote: There is a discrepancy between the WD text and the table listings of the G/M-naughts. In the text they say that the (2) rokkit launchas are TL, whereas the TL entry is not listed in the tables. The models themselves seem to have the rokkits in pairs perhaps suggesting they are TL...although that may be completely irrelevant. While the overall conclusion wouldn't be substantially changed, having (2) TL rokkit launchas would certainly help.
That's interesting. Maybe we shouldn't rely so hard on the KFF nerf before we see the actual codex. After all, there's still hope...
PhillyT wrote: Ignored in all of that is the fact that neither Naut is really a shooting model. They are more like the knights. They can contribute to the shooting phase, but they are priced with the expectation that they will charge something.
PhillyT wrote: I generally do that with my wagons. The templates hitting guys inside isn't too big a deal though, since that means most of the time, whoever vented the template is within charge range of other boyz or will be shot to bits (torrent weapons still need to be within charge range).
I like the model and can see it being fun, which really is the point. An incredibly durable CC machine that demands attention. Lets the rest of the army move in without taking as much fire.
Try charging the hell turkey.
If the best the turkey can do is put that template down on wagons, then the battle is probably yours to win anyway.
If the turkey take out my loota's in the BW, he can shoot the boys at leisure.
zammerak wrote: Can someone do the math comparing the Mega Dread with the new walkers? 175pts for an av 13 13 11 with a 5+ inv, has 2 big shootas and either a kill kannon (str 7 ap3 large blast) or a "Supa Skorcha" Str 6 ap3 template) and it has a rippa klaw 3 attacks base 4 on the charge s10 ap2 with sunder (re roll armor pen result if you dont like it) I can take 2 for 350 pts. Is that better for killing MEQ?
Im at work and dont have the time or meterials to do all the stats.
Thanks
a bit more problematic since blast weapons are much harder to calculate due to having much more variables to hit
(1/3 chance for direct hit, random direction scater, random distance [2d6-2 in this case, averaging on 5 in], and then you have to account for density of models in the area, that is very situational)
if an average Ork scatter happens on a large blast that has a 5 in diameter, it will basicaly flip in the scater direction, missing all the models in the original target area
I would guess that a direct hit would be about 5 models at standard spacing (usually 1.5" at normal deployment (most people don't use full unit coherency distance)).
PhillyT wrote: Ignored in all of that is the fact that neither Naut is really a shooting model. They are more like the knights. They can contribute to the shooting phase, but they are priced with the expectation that they will charge something.
PhillyT wrote: I generally do that with my wagons. The templates hitting guys inside isn't too big a deal though, since that means most of the time, whoever vented the template is within charge range of other boyz or will be shot to bits (torrent weapons still need to be within charge range).
I like the model and can see it being fun, which really is the point. An incredibly durable CC machine that demands attention. Lets the rest of the army move in without taking as much fire.
Try charging the hell turkey.
If the best the turkey can do is put that template down on wagons, then the battle is probably yours to win anyway.
If the turkey take out my loota's in the BW, he can shoot the boys at leisure.
He only averages 2 - 3 wounds per pass on anything in a transport.
I think it's more likely that someone got their lines crossed and the limited edition version (Which I expect will happen) is called the Warboss edition, and not a whole different edition.
zammerak wrote: Can someone do the math comparing the Mega Dread with the new walkers? 175pts for an av 13 13 11 with a 5+ inv, has 2 big shootas and either a kill kannon (str 7 ap3 large blast) or a "Supa Skorcha" Str 6 ap3 template) and it has a rippa klaw 3 attacks base 4 on the charge s10 ap2 with sunder (re roll armor pen result if you dont like it) I can take 2 for 350 pts. Is that better for killing MEQ?
Im at work and dont have the time or meterials to do all the stats.
Thanks
a bit more problematic since blast weapons are much harder to calculate due to having much more variables to hit
(1/3 chance for direct hit, random direction scater, random distance [2d6-2 in this case, averaging on 5 in], and then you have to account for density of models in the area, that is very situational)
if an average Ork scatter happens on a large blast that has a 5 in diameter, it will basicaly flip in the scater direction, missing all the models in the original target area
Good point, moving away from mathhammer for a moment, bassed on what had been discussed which option is better for killing meq point for point? The 175pt mega dread or the girkamorkanaught for 250+? (Not sure the exact pts for the naught)
Squidbot wrote: If it's even true. Even the SPAAAACE MEHREEEEEEENZZZ didn't get something like that.
Ya, no stupid humies no epic book. I'd be tempted to buy it myself. Deciding between that or more flash gitz
Gitz! The ork book could be replaced in 2 years with 8th edition or a new codex rendering it slightly worthless. The gitz however are still a cool model that can be used as xyz if they get nerfed in the next book.
Squidbot wrote: If it's even true. Even the SPAAAACE MEHREEEEEEENZZZ didn't get something like that.
Ya, no stupid humies no epic book. I'd be tempted to buy it myself. Deciding between that or more flash gitz
Gitz! The ork book could be replaced in 2 years with 8th edition or a new codex rendering it slightly worthless. The gitz however are still a cool model that can be used as xyz if they get nerfed in the next book.
ClockworkZion wrote: So the question of what Orks call Tau came up earlier, and according to Engine of Mork (which I just finished reading) the answer is "Slashfaces".
I love Engine of Mork. It really shows how Orks can be written well, and not just mindless brutes. One of these days I'll finish my Ork fan fiction and Black Library will publish it. Shut up, I can dream.
ClockworkZion wrote: So the question of what Orks call Tau came up earlier, and according to Engine of Mork (which I just finished reading) the answer is "Slashfaces".
I love Engine of Mork. It really shows how Orks can be written well, and not just mindless brutes. One of these days I'll finish my Ork fan fiction and Black Library will publish it. Shut up, I can dream.
I never heard of it until this thread. I'm glad I did though. Deff Skwadron is good too.
I love Engine of Mork. It really shows how Orks can be written well, and not just mindless brutes. One of these days I'll finish my Ork fan fiction and Black Library will publish it. Shut up, I can dream.
Go to Scribd and track down some of the 1st edition Ork books, like 'Ere We Go and Waaargh! The Orks. They have really fantastic narratives running through them that higlight how characterful Orks can be.
No need, I have them all already. I've been playing 40K since RT, on and off. Long time Ork fan. I just lament the lack of decent Ork fiction.
Only one I don't have a physical copy of is Waaargh Orks. I was too broke to buy it when it came out, and I haven't yet managed to justify £60 for an ebay copy.
If that's true a lot is going to land in week 3, assuming it's a 3 week release. I guess people said June for Orks, so a 4 week release isn't inconceivable.
Squidbot wrote: If that's true a lot is going to land in week 3, assuming it's a 3 week release. I guess people said June for Orks, so a 4 week release isn't inconceivable.
I think the only army in need of more reworking and new models than the orks are SoB. What we can assume as confirmed by now:
- Gorkamorka
- SAG Mek
- Flash Gitz
- New Big Gunz
- New MANz - New Grot assistants
And I think Kroothawk or Squidbot mentioned also a new Painboy and a redone AOBR warboss. Throw in the Codex as a seperate entry and that would actually justify a 6-7 week resease shedule (assuming GW wants to drag it out as long as possible).
zammerak wrote: No matter what the ork dex brings ork players have been known to find a way to make the boyz dead killy. Im not worried about the dex, we ork players will find a way to crush other armies. Our current dex is from 4th edition and yet we still win games
Well I just played my first game under 7th this weekend. 2000pts Orkz vs. 1000pts Ultramarines & 1000 Astra Militarum. I told them it was a learning game so no keeping score, but they did any way. After only 2 turns, I was up 5 VPs to 1. So I would have to agree with this.
Squidbot wrote: If that's true a lot is going to land in week 3, assuming it's a 3 week release. I guess people said June for Orks, so a 4 week release isn't inconceivable.
I think the only army in need of more reworking and new models than the orks are SoB. What we can assume as confirmed by now:
Squidbot wrote: If that's true a lot is going to land in week 3, assuming it's a 3 week release. I guess people said June for Orks, so a 4 week release isn't inconceivable.
I think the only army in need of more reworking and new models than the orks are SoB. What we can assume as confirmed by now:
- Gorkamorka
- SAG Mek
- Flash Gitz
- New Big Gunz
- New MANz - New Grot assistants
And I think Kroothawk or Squidbot mentioned also a new Painboy and a redone AOBR warboss. Throw in the Codex as a seperate entry and that would actually justify a 6-7 week resease shedule (assuming GW wants to drag it out as long as possible).
Only reason I compared him to the AOBr boss is the similar pose and (Left Klaw hand out flun, pointing) shoota arm (Positioned differently now) and twin guns across back. But he's different enough to be worth getting.
I am really thinking the grotz and helper irks we are seeing are from the big guns kits. Similarly, the mek with the pointing hand has a mek banner pole which makes me wonder if he is there with the big guns. Are the big guns packs of three? If so, that makes sense.
Orks just really need some of their issues smoothed out. Rules wise they favor shooting, but they can't reliably krump armor outside of melee. Fluff wise they're also all about CC.
I'd be perfectly ok with this if it weren't for sixth and onwards being "fix your army weaknesses with allies edition". The time for such things is past and Orks need an anti-tank gun.
I used 9 Kannonz this weekend, & they were busting armor every turn(Ammo Runts helped, and the Kannonz also tend to got ignored a lot). I just need to polish up my deployment..
If Beast of War is accurate, it seems that Waaagh! is now a special rule for the warboss, rather than inherent to the army.
Seems that there are several ways to get Hammer of Wrath on ork infantry. Not sure if that's going to make much difference and it sounds like you will need to abandon Objective Secured to get it and take a lot of boys. Doesn't really appeal to me, but if you are playing a choppa horde it's a possible bonus.
I love Engine of Mork. It really shows how Orks can be written well, and not just mindless brutes. One of these days I'll finish my Ork fan fiction and Black Library will publish it. Shut up, I can dream.
Go to Scribd and track down some of the 1st edition Ork books, like 'Ere We Go and Waaargh! The Orks. They have really fantastic narratives running through them that higlight how characterful Orks can be.
Here's the best Ork (fan)fiction of them all, though.
Hammer of Wrath would be totally USELESS for Orks. Additional S3 hits can't make the difference in close combat.
GW should let us have something to increase their survivability instead...
granted, i have to put up with my local gamers saying,... thats not an orky army,... 
