That dude pronounced it 'Abhorrent' ('disgusting) throughout the video whereas the name and word is 'Aberrant' ('divergent'), a wholly different meaning.
AegisGrimm wrote: Yeah, if I bought thisbox, it'd be for small points value games in very congested urban terrain. Halfway between Kill Team and 40k (more like force size from 2nd edition).
Seriously people, Tactical Strike rules, HH Book 3, get 'em.
Book 3 you say? Dare I hope that has salamander rules?
I'm waiting for white Scars but ...
Sally rules are book 2, but you're probably best just waiting for the latest version of the Legion rules "Red Book" if that's what you're after, it's less than half the price of the core books and will cover all the Legions we've seen to date. Unfortunately FW have chosen not to release the Tactical Strike rules on their own, but if you can get access to book 3 in some way do so, best way to get into the Heresy IMO, and they work fine with 40K armies as well.
Warhams-77 wrote: We better wait for a scan of the entire page for a final conclusion.
No, we had better not.
There is nothing else on that page about it, much like the Deathwatch side.
It is what it is, and it is fairly clear.
In the last WD it even talked about using them with Nids.
Some people just refuse to accept until someone slaps them in the face something.
No, it's not about refusing to accept something. Most people have said that it probably means you can ally them as BB with Nids (and I doubt anyone would have a problem with it, so I don't know why anyone would be refusing to accept it). But as usual, GW have written it in the most open, confusing way they possibly could have. If you need the context of another WD talking about using them with Nids to know for sure that's how they meant it, it's not well written.
Warhams-77 wrote: We better wait for a scan of the entire page for a final conclusion.
No, we had better not.
There is nothing else on that page about it, much like the Deathwatch side.
It is what it is, and it is fairly clear.
In the last WD it even talked about using them with Nids.
Some people just refuse to accept until someone slaps them in the face something.
Battle brothers with Tyranids is fine for me
Deploying the IG part of the army 12" away from the Cult is okay, infiltrating the brood will also help with most deployment issues.
So let's start a rebellion, or two!
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wuestenfux wrote: Well, I have expected that Genestealer Cult could ally with renegate AM.
In 7th edition an army can be build with as many detachments as you want and also from any faction. The ally matrix is only about how units interact with each other. This is not 6th anymore
The allying thing is not confusing. People are just bringing their extra baggage to it with the assumption that Tyranids couldn't ally with anyone (which is also not true).
If it had said "can ally like Space Marines" no one would care, because 12 armies already ally like Space Marines and everyone accepts what that means.
In 7th edition an army can be build with as many detachments as you want and also from any faction. The ally matrix is only about how units interact with each other. This is not 6th anymore
Right. But I thought it would be easier for a Genestealer Cult (than for Nids) to interact with AM.
wuestenfux wrote: Right. But I thought it would be easier for a Genestealer Cult (than for Nids) to interact with AM.
Maybe GW wants to prevent some crazy strong combinations. I think in friendly games we can arrange a different status between these books to allow for more story-driven games.
Saw the models first hand today (breathtaking) flicked through the book (it's beautiful, full of cool fluff I didn't want to spoil) - and pre-ordered it.
wuestenfux wrote: Right. But I thought it would be easier for a Genestealer Cult (than for Nids) to interact with AM.
Maybe GW wants to prevent some crazy strong combinations. I think in friendly games we can arrange a different status between these books to allow for more story-driven games.
Okay. Strong combinations? Haven't yet seen the rules of the Genestealer Cult.
yup, Pre ordered too and planning on extra units of hybrids from the bay to bulk out the pack. I want to convert some tank commanders for my half inched PDF chimera's etc.
Tyran wrote: I'm still wondering how the hell that guy got a Bonesword.
Fluff wise, a Grey Knight Nemesis force sword would be easier to acquire.
Possibly extruded from the Patriarchs back... he is kinda swordy lol...
As to the rules, it only makes sense that they are battle brothers with Tyranids, they ARE Tyranids.
When I was concocting my fluff for them, my theory was that a stealer cult would actually seek to spread off world, an inner cadre portion of it at least, when the Patriarch sensed the hive fleet approaching. This serves both to spread infection further and perpetuate the cycle, and also to serve the self-preservation of this uniquely independent Tyranid organism (the Patriarch). Then, when the Nids arrive to the world where the remainder of the cult is still fighting, the hivemind dominates them and takes them over, proxying the departed Patriarch. Thought that was a handy solution to make the cults unique and able to be divergent while still readily assimilated into a Nid force in the event they meet too.
wuestenfux wrote: Right. But I thought it would be easier for a Genestealer Cult (than for Nids) to interact with AM.
Maybe GW wants to prevent some crazy strong combinations. I think in friendly games we can arrange a different status between these books to allow for more story-driven games.
Okay. Strong combinations? Haven't yet seen the rules of the Genestealer Cult.
Sometimes, I can't believe the interwebs. There are plenty of things to not like GW about and plenty of rules to nitpick on, but I gotta believe that anyone who thinks Genestealer Cult working 'just like tyranids' meaning that they can't BB with tyranids has got to be trolling.
I think any halfway intelligent person who isnt just looking for a problem when there isn't one would take the tyranid line, and replace the word tyranid with genestealer cult. It would have the same icon and the same alliance icons as Tyranid. Which are BB with Tyranid...
Melonfish wrote: It is ambiguous, though they do hint at use with nids, seriously could they not have just put it in writing "battle brothers with Tyranid faction"
They don't need to put it in writing beyond what they did.
If they Ally using the same chart as Tyranids, that means they are Battle-Brothers.
Tyranids are Battle-Brothers with Tyranids and CTA for everything else.
Tyran wrote: I'm still wondering how the hell that guy got a Bonesword.
Fluff wise, a Grey Knight Nemesis force sword would be easier to acquire.
Possibly extruded from the Patriarchs back... he is kinda swordy lol...
As to the rules, it only makes sense that they are battle brothers with Tyranids, they ARE Tyranids.
When I was concocting my fluff for them, my theory was that a stealer cult would actually seek to spread off world, an inner cadre portion of it at least, when the Patriarch sensed the hive fleet approaching. This serves both to spread infection further and perpetuate the cycle, and also to serve the self-preservation of this uniquely independent Tyranid organism (the Patriarch). Then, when the Nids arrive to the world where the remainder of the cult is still fighting, the hivemind dominates them and takes them over, proxying the departed Patriarch. Thought that was a handy solution to make the cults unique and able to be divergent while still readily assimilated into a Nid force in the event they meet too.
A perfect take on the background, thanks for sharing!
And with regards to the bonesword, many of the 1st generation hybrids are also armed with exotic alien daggers. I presume they are bought from off world through black markets.
Talys wrote: Sometimes, I can't believe the interwebs. There are plenty of things to not like GW about and plenty of rules to nitpick on, but I gotta believe that anyone who thinks Genestealer Cult working 'just like tyranids' meaning that they can't BB with tyranids has got to be trolling.
I think any halfway intelligent person who isnt just looking for a problem when there isn't one would take the tyranid line, and replace the word tyranid with genestealer cult. It would have the same icon and the same alliance icons as Tyranid. Which are BB with Tyranid...
Or it means they aren't BB with anything but themselves, like Tyranids. I agree with your conclusion but you can read it either way.
Since I'm already sitting on 100+ painted Hybrids and other units, I'm more interested in these rules as a peek toward the eventual codex than as a way to play the minis in the box for a few months.
As others have said, Hybrids and the HQs look strong, Aberrants look interesting, and Purestrains are a little concerning. The overall concept seems to be "ambush-y." The execution may change in the codex, but I'm definitely cool with that approach. It flows from the fluff.
For allies...I guess that actually makes some sense. And if you want Brood Brothers, you take an AM detachment or formation (I'm definitely eyeing up the Mont'va stuff) and you're good. There won't be the interplay between factions like you'd have with BB allies, but it's fine. I'll probably take a look at the AM psykers as a way to build up the dice pool for the GC psykers, at least.
Still weird to me that they reversed "Neophytes" and "Acolytes" from the old fluff. Wonder what their reasoning was?
Could always model some tanks coated in cultists/hybrids to be counts-as Exocrines, Dakkafexes, etc. Yes, it's an MC rather than a vehicle, and it's way better at CC than regular vehicles, but that's because of all those clawed fanged loons hanging off it.
I actually wonder if a stealer could even infect a machine dominant cyborg... I mean... if the... bits... aren't there to breed, can the brain has been heavily segmented and is reliant on cybernetics for the actual thought process, what can the stealer phage actually take over really. It is blocked both mentally and physically I would imagine???
Same goes for Orks now with their current reproductive fluff, it seems to me it may be too unique a reproductive method for a stealer to infect them. There is no mating drive or paternal affection to leverage either, an ork reproduces like we shed skin cells. On the other hand, I suppose arguments could be made that the Tyranids are so genetically skilled they accounted even for this method of reproduction when designing the stealer phage.
Even discounting those two, it still leaves a ton of potential 'allies' via brood brotherhood, PDF, IG, Arbites, Civ, even inquisition, assassin and naval. That's just human... Abhumans, Eldar, dark eldar, Tau and a ton of others would be 'eligible'.
One thing I have never heard of in the fluff though is multi species broods, it always seems to be one species.
AegisGrimm wrote: Yeah, if I bought thisbox, it'd be for small points value games in very congested urban terrain. Halfway between Kill Team and 40k (more like force size from 2nd edition).
Seriously people, Tactical Strike rules, HH Book 3, get 'em.
Book 3 you say? Dare I hope that has salamander rules?
I'm waiting for white Scars but ...
Sally rules are book 2, but you're probably best just waiting for the latest version of the Legion rules "Red Book" if that's what you're after, it's less than half the price of the core books and will cover all the Legions we've seen to date. Unfortunately FW have chosen not to release the Tactical Strike rules on their own, but if you can get access to book 3 in some way do so, best way to get into the Heresy IMO, and they work fine with 40K armies as well.
Kanluwen wrote: First we have Tau players wanting our Guard formations for Gue'vasa and now we have Genestealer Cults doing the same thing.
Great. Just great. I fully expect the next Guard book to be even worse because of that.
GSC had 'Brood Brothers' aka PDF aka IG (aka AM) twenty odd years ago...
PDF have as much in common with the IG as a backwoods Sheriff has with Delta Force, if we're talking about the "common thinking" of the concept.
AGAIN, you're looking for a level of granularity that isn't there in the rules for the game. When people build "PDF" armies, they use the AM codex. Because it's EASILY the closest thing...platoons, Chimeras, Russes, heavy weapons teams, etc.
Besides, even in the fluff there are crappy IG regiments and outstanding PDFs, like the Ultramar Auxilia.
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Nostromodamus wrote: I really hope you didn't equate IG with Delta Force just then...
MajorTom11 wrote: I actually wonder if a stealer could even infect a machine dominant cyborg...
Yes - there's infected tech-priests in one of the Cain novels.
True! Though, honestly, this is GW, until they say it outright this time anything could change right... and my argument would be dependent on whether or not he was lower cast a bit cyborged or higher ranked mostly machine.
Still weird to me that they reversed "Neophytes" and "Acolytes" from the old fluff. Wonder what their reasoning was?
Yes that is odd! I don't have much source material on the old Genestealer cults, but I can see in my Necromunda Outlander book that Neophytes have the WS boost (4) and BS nerf (2) whereas the Acolytes have the standard human 3,3 and a chance of being Pyschic (Wyrd).
I've just ordered the 2nd Edition Tyranid codex off eBay, am I going to have to read the sections on Genestealer cults and switch the words around in my head throughout? Definitely confusing!
MajorTom11 wrote: One thing I have never heard of in the fluff though is multi species broods, it always seems to be one species.
Well, each cult is really nothing more than a family. Some family members share the genetics (Hybrids, Purestrains), and some just "marry in" (Brood Brothers). But it's really all about a certain bloodline just like most families.
Regarding implantation into cyborgs, etc., we may be able to assume that a Purestrain wouldn't implant into a lifeform it sensed to be incapable of having children. Procreation is the goal.
MajorTom11 wrote: I actually wonder if a stealer could even infect a machine dominant cyborg... I mean... if the... bits... aren't there to breed, can the brain has been heavily segmented and is reliant on cybernetics for the actual thought process, what can the stealer phage actually take over really. It is blocked both mentally and physically I would imagine???
Same goes for Orks now with their current reproductive fluff, it seems to me it may be too unique a reproductive method for a stealer to infect them. There is no mating drive or paternal affection to leverage either, an ork reproduces like we shed skin cells. On the other hand, I suppose arguments could be made that the Tyranids are so genetically skilled they accounted even for this method of reproduction when designing the stealer phage.
Even discounting those two, it still leaves a ton of potential 'allies' via brood brotherhood, PDF, IG, Arbites, Civ, even inquisition, assassin and naval. That's just human... Abhumans, Eldar, dark eldar, Tau and a ton of others would be 'eligible'.
One thing I have never heard of in the fluff though is multi species broods, it always seems to be one species.
Genestealers hijack the host's reproductive method. While there is no mating drive or paternal affection, the spore based reproductive method could be hijacked, which could mean lots of hybrids. Also the Ork natural loyalty to big green things could be abused, after all there would be few things as big and green as an Ork hybrid.
That being said, IIRC the fluff notes that Orks have a natural tendency to find and exterminate such infestations.
As for the infected Mechanicus, it is important to note that she had very little mechanical augmentation for a tech priest.
MajorTom11 wrote: One thing I have never heard of in the fluff though is multi species broods, it always seems to be one species.
Well, each cult is really nothing more than a family. Some family members share the genetics (Hybrids, Purestrains), and some just "marry in" (Brood Brothers). But it's really all about a certain bloodline just like most families.
Regarding implantation into cyborgs, etc., we may be able to assume that a Purestrain wouldn't implant into a lifeform it sensed to be incapable of having children. Procreation is the goal.
Yep agree with that (purestrain avoiding non-viable implantations) -
For the cult multi species thing, I meant ork/tau/human hybrids inside the same cult, theoretically possible I suppose, but never done that i know of. As you say, they would all technically be in the same family even if the marry-ins are different species from each other.
They wouldn't be marrying in, though. Disregarding the unlikelihood of them meeting at the best of times, a Tau isn't going to have reproductive urges for an Ork.
AndrewGPaul wrote: They wouldn't be marrying in, though. Disregarding the unlikelihood of them meeting at the best of times, a Tau isn't going to have reproductive urges for an Ork.
You never know lol!
Just to be clear (though I think you knew) marry-ins = DNA raped by Genestealer, brainwashed and turned into sex-puppet slave drone.
MajorTom11 wrote: One thing I have never heard of in the fluff though is multi species broods, it always seems to be one species.
Well, each cult is really nothing more than a family. Some family members share the genetics (Hybrids, Purestrains), and some just "marry in" (Brood Brothers). But it's really all about a certain bloodline just like most families.
Regarding implantation into cyborgs, etc., we may be able to assume that a Purestrain wouldn't implant into a lifeform it sensed to be incapable of having children. Procreation is the goal.
Yep agree with that (purestrain avoiding non-viable implantations) -
For the cult multi species thing, I meant ork/tau/human hybrids inside the same cult, theoretically possible I suppose, but never done that i know of. As you say, they would all technically be in the same family even if the marry-ins are different species from each other.
Yeah, I think it's theoretically possible on a planet with multiple higher-level lifeforms inhabiting it. It's the Genestealer bloodline that ties them together. But then how often do we see said lifeforms peacefully inhabiting the same planet in the 41st millenium? When it happens, you just get carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods until only one is left standing.
AndrewGPaul wrote: They wouldn't be marrying in, though. Disregarding the unlikelihood of them meeting at the best of times, a Tau isn't going to have reproductive urges for an Ork.
You never know lol!
Just to be clear (though I think you knew) marry-ins = DNA raped by Genestealer, brainwashed and turned into sex-puppet slave drone.
I feel this video from Futurama is somewhat relevant when it comes to interspecies relations (outside of genestealers I mean)
Tyran wrote: I'm pretty sure Genestealer Cults don't inbred, as it would defeat on of the main purposes of implantation, which is getting new cultists.
Kanluwen wrote: First we have Tau players wanting our Guard formations for Gue'vasa and now we have Genestealer Cults doing the same thing.
Great. Just great. I fully expect the next Guard book to be even worse because of that.
GSC had 'Brood Brothers' aka PDF aka IG (aka AM) twenty odd years ago...
PDF have as much in common with the IG as a backwoods Sheriff has with Delta Force, if we're talking about the "common thinking" of the concept.
AGAIN, you're looking for a level of granularity that isn't there in the rules for the game. When people build "PDF" armies, they use the AM codex. Because it's EASILY the closest thing...platoons, Chimeras, Russes, heavy weapons teams, etc.
Besides, even in the fluff there are crappy IG regiments and outstanding PDFs, like the Ultramar Auxilia.
Almost like how I said "common thinking" of the concept, rather than "it's a strict rule that PDFs suck and Guard are awesome"?
And if we really want to talk about "a level of granularity that isn't there in the rules for the game", it's important to note the comment I replied to.
PDFs != Guard/AM. They're two distinct entities. You don't call a Space Marine a Sister of Battle, do you?
Nostromodamus wrote: I really hope you didn't equate IG with Delta Force just then...
I like the look of those cultists! Man those are pretty models. I would consider starting a Genestealer Cult army if I didn't already have other projects on my hands.
I also find it hilarious reading the first page, all the naysayers who (with good reason) swore that these rumours were complete bunk hahaha XD
You know what else was sworn off? The Kroot Mercenary army rumors from last year. Now every single army except them that was "debunked" has come out. They were rumored at the same time as Deathwatch and other armies from the same source who has so far turned out to be correct about this stuff at least.
We also know from the good Attia that one more army will see release this year. From K'ovir we know the Tau will see one more campaign this year.
Put all the dots together and its looking like when Kroot are coming not if Kroot are coming. I got to get my current Tau stuff done so I can get ready for the Kroot.
Gamgee wrote: You know what else was sworn off? The Kroot Mercenary army rumors from last year. Now every single army except them that was "debunked" has come out. They were rumored at the same time as Deathwatch and other armies from the same source who has so far turned out to be correct about this stuff at least.
We also know from the good Attia that one more army will see release this year. From K'ovir we know the Tau will see one more campaign this year.
Put all the dots together and its looking like when Kroot are coming not if Kroot are coming. I got to get my current Tau stuff done so I can get ready for the Kroot.
No. The GS cult army was first rumored by Hasting on warseer, along with Deathwatch, Harlequins,Mechanicus, the Assasin game and the HH game. He never mentionned Kroots. I'd like to see them as they would fill a theme that is actually pretty much inexistant in 40k (techno-barbarians), but their is no credible rumours that points towrd them.
MajorTom11 wrote: One thing I have never heard of in the fluff though is multi species broods, it always seems to be one species.
Well, each cult is really nothing more than a family. Some family members share the genetics (Hybrids, Purestrains), and some just "marry in" (Brood Brothers). But it's really all about a certain bloodline just like most families.
Regarding implantation into cyborgs, etc., we may be able to assume that a Purestrain wouldn't implant into a lifeform it sensed to be incapable of having children. Procreation is the goal.
Yep agree with that (purestrain avoiding non-viable implantations) -
For the cult multi species thing, I meant ork/tau/human hybrids inside the same cult, theoretically possible I suppose, but never done that i know of. As you say, they would all technically be in the same family even if the marry-ins are different species from each other.
Yeah, I think it's theoretically possible on a planet with multiple higher-level lifeforms inhabiting it. It's the Genestealer bloodline that ties them together. But then how often do we see said lifeforms peacefully inhabiting the same planet in the 41st millenium? When it happens, you just get carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods until only one is left standing.
Black Library released a short story in which a Rogue Trader lands on some out of the way, backwater planet, in which Orc mercenaries live peacefully (at least, peacefully for an orc, they more just follow the laws set down by the local governor) alongside the humans of the planet / town. The RT even converses with them, and convinces them fight alongside her. It was a really enjoyable read, I can't remember the title though if anyone wants to know, PM me and I'll dig it out.
As regards multi species inside the same cult, I'd say it's entirely possible. All it takes is for the GSC to come along while 2 sides are fighting and start their own covert operation of infecting individuals from both sides. Those individuals then desert, feeling the psychic call of the brood, and settle down for a different family life to that which they planned for
Awww that sucks about the source. In that case all I can do is hope it happens. Still I think it could be possible with how every other "impossible" army is turning up in the last two years. Not to mention the circumstantial evidence.
MajorTom11 wrote: One thing I have never heard of in the fluff though is multi species broods, it always seems to be one species.
Well, each cult is really nothing more than a family. Some family members share the genetics (Hybrids, Purestrains), and some just "marry in" (Brood Brothers). But it's really all about a certain bloodline just like most families.
Regarding implantation into cyborgs, etc., we may be able to assume that a Purestrain wouldn't implant into a lifeform it sensed to be incapable of having children. Procreation is the goal.
Yep agree with that (purestrain avoiding non-viable implantations) -
For the cult multi species thing, I meant ork/tau/human hybrids inside the same cult, theoretically possible I suppose, but never done that i know of. As you say, they would all technically be in the same family even if the marry-ins are different species from each other.
Yeah, I think it's theoretically possible on a planet with multiple higher-level lifeforms inhabiting it. It's the Genestealer bloodline that ties them together. But then how often do we see said lifeforms peacefully inhabiting the same planet in the 41st millenium? When it happens, you just get carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods until only one is left standing.
Black Library released a short story in which a Rogue Trader lands on some out of the way, backwater planet, in which Orc mercenaries live peacefully (at least, peacefully for an orc, they more just follow the laws set down by the local governor) alongside the humans of the planet / town. The RT even converses with them, and convinces them fight alongside her. It was a really enjoyable read, I can't remember the title though if anyone wants to know, PM me and I'll dig it out.
As regards multi species inside the same cult, I'd say it's entirely possible. All it takes is for the GSC to come along while 2 sides are fighting and start their own covert operation of infecting individuals from both sides. Those individuals then desert, feeling the psychic call of the brood, and settle down for a different family life to that which they planned for
Cold Trade by Andy Hoare, page 163 of the "There Is Only War" omnibus. Had to find it, it'd have done my head in otherwise!
I'm just sitting here waiting for Necromunda to come back. IMO, that is where the genestealer cult will shine (or perhaps more-so in an inquisi-munda sort of game)
I think the Genestealers are pretty good all things considered. If Tyranids had some better anti tank options and could use this to tie up key squads it could be a pretty competitive list. Maybe. Would need some testing.
MajorTom11 wrote: One thing I have never heard of in the fluff though is multi species broods, it always seems to be one species.
Well, each cult is really nothing more than a family. Some family members share the genetics (Hybrids, Purestrains), and some just "marry in" (Brood Brothers). But it's really all about a certain bloodline just like most families.
Regarding implantation into cyborgs, etc., we may be able to assume that a Purestrain wouldn't implant into a lifeform it sensed to be incapable of having children. Procreation is the goal.
Yep agree with that (purestrain avoiding non-viable implantations) -
Hmm, not so sure myself. Certainly in the early stages of the Cult the primary focus would be numerical expansion, but once it had been established for a couple of complete generational cycles the Broodmind might well start directing the Purestrains to infect people based on their utility as well as their potential to procreate - if they had a shot at taking control of a high ranking official who was sterile, or an Enginseer so mechanically augmented children would be impossible but who had access to some restricted area or who possessed valuable knowledge, I doubt they would pass up the chance to expand the Cult's power or insulate it from the authorities.
Accolade wrote: I'm just sitting here waiting for Necromunda to come back. IMO, that is where the genestealer cult will shine (or perhaps more-so in an inquisi-munda sort of game)
Man, don't gets my hope high. An Inquisimunda game would literally be a dream come true.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Are there any good FFG roleplay resource books for Genestealer cults or Tyranids in general?
Tyranids yes, mostly in Deathwatch. Genestealer Cults? Nope. They've been taboo for a long time. 'Spose we know why now. Latest Genestealer rules are in Enemies Without, for DH2.0... which *cough* I wrote *cough* (/shameless plug).
AndrewGPaul wrote: We went up against a 'stealer cult in our DH campaign. I assume the GM got the stats from the traditional source - he made them up.
...Well, now that I've seen the snippets of the Ally matrix for the cults.
I'm kind of disappointed.
Same ally matrix as Tyranids (i.e. Come the Apocalyse for everything save Tyranids). Really disappointing when you consider all the fluff for the Stealer Cults and indeed fiction in the past few years has Tau, Guard and Orks and the original Cults could ally with Chaos or at the very least Lost and the Damned.
Great potential to have a mini-faction that would bridge gaps between one force and the other wasted. Seriously, you could've taken the Cult as the main force and had allied detachments of other things to bridge the gap. :(
HBMC, which FFG book has the most fluff on Tyranids/gene stealers? FFG's done so well with the background for the other factions, I would like to see what they've done for the 'nids.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Are there any good FFG roleplay resource books for Genestealer cults or Tyranids in general?
Tyranids yes, mostly in Deathwatch. Genestealer Cults? Nope. They've been taboo for a long time. 'Spose we know why now. Latest Genestealer rules are in Enemies Without, for DH2.0... which *cough* I wrote *cough* (/shameless plug).
AndrewGPaul wrote: We went up against a 'stealer cult in our DH campaign. I assume the GM got the stats from the traditional source - he made them up.
That's what I did in our DH campaign.
Wow really? Are you freelancer or work full time with ffg? Got any hints about upcoming 40krpg goodness?
DarkStarSabre wrote: ...Well, now that I've seen the snippets of the Ally matrix for the cults.
I'm kind of disappointed.
Same ally matrix as Tyranids (i.e. Come the Apocalyse for everything save Tyranids). Really disappointing when you consider all the fluff for the Stealer Cults and indeed fiction in the past few years has Tau, Guard and Orks and the original Cults could ally with Chaos or at the very least Lost and the Damned.
Great potential to have a mini-faction that would bridge gaps between one force and the other wasted. Seriously, you could've taken the Cult as the main force and had allied detachments of other things to bridge the gap. :(
I can understand non-tyranids being fooled enough to ally with 3rd-4th generations, but the rest of the models are pretty obviously Xenos of some sort. Unless I'm missing something from the fluff (which I admittedly don't know very well beyond the DWRPG and Space Hulk), the matrix seems spot-on to me.
The new only potential ally I can see they should have is Astra Militarum to represent cult sided units. Anything else makes little sense and I can think of no fluff that suggests the cult can begin in non human worlds. It makes fluff sense that mankind prospers in large numbers on worlds with resources , hence the cult draws the tyranids to them. Tau don't have the numbers or the society to support easily hidden cults. Orks largely kill anything different or enslave it, and mostly don't live on worlds that are great for life.
I guess guard have been left behind to avoid silliness.
Tau, Orks and Humans are the three species that have explicit canon examples of Genestealer Cult infestation, Chaos Daemons as BBC would be a nice callback to RT
The Tau cult is part of the Inquisitor Water Caste Envoy's background
Inquisitor Kryptmann seeded an Ork cult on Octavius using the space hulk Perdition's Flame (it's explicitly noted that the Genestealers were sent to "infect" the Orks, not just fight them
Surely as a contributor to FFG you should have vast resources for research available to you and shouldn't need to ask such questions on forums?
Charax wrote: ... Orks ... have explicit canon examples of Genestealer Cult infestation...
Since the RT days? Can I ask where?
He's right. Definitely remember seeing some pics of Ork/genestealer cultists, it's in some of the first edition stuff (although can't remember where - will have to have a think)
Although, this is way before Orks starter being born from a mushroom so not sure how the fluff would fit nowadays.
Yup. Ork hybrids existed.
There was 1 Ork Hybrid miniature, in one of the "Freebooter" blisters of 1st edition.
The rules were in the Ork bood "Freebooterz".
I have the model and converted a few extra with plastic hybrid bits and the plastic orks from back then.
In the background Orks can smell them out, so infiltration does not work. So hybrids tend to be exterminated or band together in small groups to protect themselves and sell their skills as freebooterz (orks for hire).
In regard to orks from mushroom: that does not conflict with the 1st edition fluff really.
The old and "new" background more or less fill in each other's blanks.
According to 1st edition background the Orks were designed by what Orks call "Brainboyz" as a working and soldier race.
The Brainboyz were a smaller highly intelligent race (think snotling size).
This intelligence was partly brought by eating specific type of mushrooms.
When Orks got their hands on too many mushrooms, their intelligence evolved enough to understand that they were a lot more powerfull then their masters, so they took over by force (which is what Orks do ;-)
The Brainboyz that were left did not get many magic mushrooms, so devolved into snotlings.
He's right. Definitely remember seeing some pics of Ork/genestealer cultists, it's in some of the first edition stuff (although can't remember where - will have to have a think)
Although, this is way before Orks starter being born from a mushroom so not sure how the fluff would fit nowadays.
The Genestealer infects the target organism with its DNA, lets call the target#1.
The genes of #1 are hijacked by the complex tyranid DNA - overriding some of the brain function and the reproductive system.
It doesnt matter whether #1 reproduces sexually or asexually, through eggs, spores or division- the 'stealer DNA corrupts it.
The Ork spores now spawn hybrids, the human womb produces hybrids, the kroot lay hybrid eggs, the Amoebans from Cellulus 5 divide to produce hybrids.
Supposedly it's not as effective with Orks as the hybrids can be detected as 'un orky' by da boyz but when the Clan is on a war-footing (most of the time) it'd be hard to notice. Particularly if they can find a place to hide and grow their numbers first. Like the twisting, anarchic corridors of an ork ship or... a space hulk.
I wonder if that's why there's so many genestealers on hulks? The Orks hitched a ride but brought a few infected boyz with them. Decades later, the boyz are all dead, the cult is dead and only the purestrains live in hibernation.
=Angel= wrote: The Genestealer infects the target organism with its DNA, lets call the target#1.
The genes of #1 are hijacked by the complex tyranid DNA - overriding some of the brain function and the reproductive system.
It doesnt matter whether #1 reproduces sexually or asexually, through eggs, spores or division- the 'stealer DNA corrupts it.
The Ork spores now spawn hybrids, the human womb produces hybrids, the kroot lay hybrid eggs, the Amoebans from Cellulus 5 divide to produce hybrids.
Supposedly it's not as effective with Orks as the hybrids can be detected as 'un orky' by da boyz but when the Clan is on a war-footing (most of the time) it'd be hard to notice. Particularly if they can find a place to hide and grow their numbers first. Like the twisting, anarchic corridors of an ork ship or... a space hulk.
I wonder if that's why there's so many genestealers on hulks? The Orks hitched a ride but brought a few infected boyz with them. Decades later, the boyz are all dead, the cult is dead and only the purestrains live in hibernation.
That makes a lot of sense. Head-canon accepted. Sure it doesn't have to be the only reason but it makes sense to me.
DarkStarSabre wrote: ...Well, now that I've seen the snippets of the Ally matrix for the cults.
I'm kind of disappointed.
Same ally matrix as Tyranids (i.e. Come the Apocalyse for everything save Tyranids). Really disappointing when you consider all the fluff for the Stealer Cults and indeed fiction in the past few years has Tau, Guard and Orks and the original Cults could ally with Chaos or at the very least Lost and the Damned.
Great potential to have a mini-faction that would bridge gaps between one force and the other wasted. Seriously, you could've taken the Cult as the main force and had allied detachments of other things to bridge the gap. :(
I can understand non-tyranids being fooled enough to ally with 3rd-4th generations, but the rest of the models are pretty obviously Xenos of some sort. Unless I'm missing something from the fluff (which I admittedly don't know very well beyond the DWRPG and Space Hulk), the matrix seems spot-on to me.
Because they're not "allies", they're Brood Brothers; humans(or Tau, or Orks etc) who have been implanted and as such are driven to protect and nurture the Cult, even to the point they'll care for and defend the Aberrants. You'd not be adding a detachment of actual Imperial Guard to your Cult, you'd be using Imperial Guard via the Allies rules to represent all the various PDF units, hive gangs, docker guilds, household militias etc that the Cult has infiltrated, implanted, and taken over.
Really the Cult should at least have Battle Brothers with Tyranids, Allies of Convenience with Guard and Tau(well really all three should be the same, but in terms of game mechanics it needs to be BB so they can adequately mesh with 'nids and permitting full ally-shenanigans with Guard and Tau vehicles and specialist units might be a tad too much balance-wise). Maybe also Desperate Allies with Orks(because I imagine even implanted Orks would still be fractious and harder to control than other species).
Because they're not "allies", they're Brood Brothers; humans(or Tau, or Orks etc) who have been implanted and as such are driven to protect and nurture the Cult, even to the point they'll care for and defend the Aberrants. You'd not be adding a detachment of actual Imperial Guard to your Cult, you'd be using Imperial Guard via the Allies rules to represent all the various PDF units, hive gangs, docker guilds, household militias etc that the Cult has infiltrated, implanted, and taken over.
Really the Cult should at least have Battle Brothers with Tyranids, Allies of Convenience with Guard and Tau(well really all three should be the same, but in terms of game mechanics it needs to be BB so they can adequately mesh with 'nids and permitting full ally-shenanigans with Guard and Tau vehicles and specialist units might be a tad too much balance-wise). Maybe also Desperate Allies with Orks(because I imagine even implanted Orks would still be fractious and harder to control than other species).
What you're talking about isn't "allies". You are talking about new units in the army that would be similar to the 3rd-4th gen hybrids with different stats. Wait for the codex and you'll probably get them.
Because they're not "allies", they're Brood Brothers; humans(or Tau, or Orks etc) who have been implanted and as such are driven to protect and nurture the Cult, even to the point they'll care for and defend the Aberrants. You'd not be adding a detachment of actual Imperial Guard to your Cult, you'd be using Imperial Guard via the Allies rules to represent all the various PDF units, hive gangs, docker guilds, household militias etc that the Cult has infiltrated, implanted, and taken over.
Really the Cult should at least have Battle Brothers with Tyranids, Allies of Convenience with Guard and Tau(well really all three should be the same, but in terms of game mechanics it needs to be BB so they can adequately mesh with 'nids and permitting full ally-shenanigans with Guard and Tau vehicles and specialist units might be a tad too much balance-wise). Maybe also Desperate Allies with Orks(because I imagine even implanted Orks would still be fractious and harder to control than other species).
What you're talking about isn't "allies". You are talking about new units in the army that would be similar to the 3rd-4th gen hybrids with different stats. Wait for the codex and you'll probably get them.
Eh? What would be the point of that? To properly represent the background, they need access to baseline human infantry squads with the standard variety of weapons & configurations and normal non-SMSTC vehicle patterns. In order to allow them to properly represent the variety of forces a Cult might come to control as Brood Brothers, they would have to copy & paste practically every single unit from the Guard codex. It's a ludicrously inefficient way to go about it given they could just make the two armies Allies of Convenience and be done with it.
Besides which, I don't agree that GW will provide even a small selection of Guard-style units in the eventual Cult release, both because it will be too small to accommodate them("Harlequin sized" is the present rumour, which would be taken up almost entirely with 3 clampack characters and the two multipart Hybrid kits), and because GW aren't giving these wee new factions access to stuff from other codices even when by the fluff they should have them(AdMech should really have all the STC vehicles).
If we get 2 Boxes one will probably be 1/2nd gen and Abhorrent
combi box this is IF we get two boxes
I'm aware they are coming however I have no clue on what they will get.
The second will probably be 3/4th gen with possibly 2 builds
id like if we got the odd Tau or Ork hybrid but i wouldn't hold my breath
it could be a 3 box 3 blister release ( magos, prime, and broodlord but that is quite big for a mini army ) and the boxes being 1/2 gen second 3/4/ abhorrent leaving a limo?
the GS being obviously usable for the GSC army and tyranids
it could be a 3 box 3 blister release ( magos, prime, and broodlord but that is quite big for a mini army ) and the boxes being 1/2 gen second 3/4/ abhorrent leaving limo
So about the same size release as harlequins?
Death watch could get by with a tac squad/veteran kit, an assault/vanguard box and maybe a terminator kit. Then a clampack chaplain Libbey and captain. Have multiple shoulder pad options.in the clampacks and a big mix in the sets.
it could be a 3 box 3 blister release ( magos, prime, and broodlord but that is quite big for a mini army ) and the boxes being 1/2 gen second 3/4/ abhorrent leaving limo
So about the same size release as harlequins?
Death watch could get by with a tac squad/veteran kit, an assault/vanguard box and maybe a terminator kit. Then a clampack chaplain Libbey and captain. Have multiple shoulder pad options.in the clampacks and a big mix in the sets.
A DW biker box to go with the White Scar would be great too.
Ork genestealer hybrids were featured in the Ciaphas Cain book I am reading atm, "The Emperor's Finest". It's not until the last half of the book though.
In for a penny, lads. I've got no concrete plans at this stage. I just find it easier to buy a bit more than I need, then never need to think about it again. The general thought so far is that a fair few of the DW will be farmed out to other marine projects for various heroes and such, which will leave me with 1 box for the game proper, and an extra box worth of guys (plus a few odd extras) will combine for a 40k force once the rules, etc come out.
Getting more than I sanely need also removes any trepidation when it comes to chopping up and converting using models like this, when I want to have a "proper" one for the game/display. I'm a little OCD like that.
I do have a whole bunch of Deathwatch parts in metal I bought a few years ago, so a Deathwatch force has been one of the (many) forces I've been thinking about for awhile - more or less like the Minotaurs I'm finally working on.
I've also got a bunch of the old original stealers and a few of the Goodwin cultists that I've kept in a little box all these years, and I think they might finally have their moment in the sun alongside the "purple" side of the box.
dan2026 wrote: I never got why the Cults had limos for their transports.
Surely their whole thing is hiding in the shadows and trying to remain unnoticed until the time to strike?
Why would they call attention to themselves with big flashy vehicles?
In the Imperium people know better than to question their betters. if there's a fancy car with tinted windows driving around you don't look too closely.
dan2026 wrote: I never got why the Cults had limos for their transports.
Surely their whole thing is hiding in the shadows and trying to remain unnoticed until the time to strike?
Why would they call attention to themselves with big flashy vehicles?
Vehicles with blacked-out windows are handy for moving obviously non-human clan members about. I suppose a less-powerful clan would use Transit vans or the like instead, but once they've got to the point where they're the local bigshots, well, they'd be using big flashy limousines even if they weren't secretly aliens plotting the downfall of the planet.
notprop wrote: Just had it confirmed I'll have my copy tonight. Can't Wait!
Companies like GW take street dates seriously. If your FLGS is handing them out before Friday, they probably don't appreciate you announcing it.
Yup. I was in store a while back and some guy came in saying that some bookstore was selling a GW book that hadn't been released and that it was a good read. Guy left store and GW employe immediately phoned HQ to see whether it was allowed.
notprop wrote: Just had it confirmed I'll have my copy tonight. Can't Wait!
Companies like GW take street dates seriously. If your FLGS is handing them out before Friday, they probably don't appreciate you announcing it.
Yup. I was in store a while back and some guy came in saying that some bookstore was selling a GW book that hadn't been released and that it was a good read. Guy left store and GW employe immediately phoned HQ to see whether it was allowed.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Bookstores would release BL books early because of the way MMPBs were packed, shipped and invoiced. The planographic for displays would generally follow the street date, meaning the books shouldn't go onto a specific display early, but due to the nature of the beast the inventory team would be motivated to have the books scanned and shelved as quickly as possible, regardless of street dates which would all be a mish mash on the palettes anyway, with excessive stock used to plug gaps in current displays. Even at their height, BL books were given no special treatment.
notprop wrote: Just had it confirmed I'll have my copy tonight. Can't Wait!
Companies like GW take street dates seriously. If your FLGS is handing them out before Friday, they probably don't appreciate you announcing it.
Yup. I was in store a while back and some guy came in saying that some bookstore was selling a GW book that hadn't been released and that it was a good read. Guy left store and GW employe immediately phoned HQ to see whether it was allowed.
I used to work in the video game department at Best Buy (major US electronics store for our non-American friends). For some reason, Activision assigned all Skylanders figures the same SKU (product code), meaning they had the same release date in the system. I broke street date on a new figure one day because the box was marked for release three months earlier. I got a freaking email from Activision's marketing department about an 'only warning" and "possible legal action". For a freaking Skylander.
There a couple of independents around here that routinely put stuff out on Wednesdays when they get it, and have been doing so for years. There's another one that won't put it out until 1PM on Saturdays, following GW to the letter!
I really, really hope that there will be a Warhammer TV Genestealer painting video by Duncan. I have genestealers from Battle of Macragge, Space Hulk, Stormstorm and soon Overkill waiting for proper paintjob.
jullevi wrote: I really, really hope that there will be a Warhammer TV Genestealer painting video by Duncan. I have genestealers from Battle of Macragge, Space Hulk, Stormstorm and soon Overkill waiting for proper paintjob.
Same. Though there are a couple of videos for Tyranids up at the moment. One for a Termagant and another for the Maleceptor (big scythed brain bug thing) You could apply the techniques in those videos to your other models.
"When it is moved, a model can be placed anywhere within a zone, as long as its base fits entirely within the zone's border".
So I guess the triangles restrict the number of models allowed in a zone. The rules themselves are only about 7 pages, and half of each of those has background/fluff on them. Missions make a further 10 pages. This seems like a great entry/gateway game for those wanting to introduce others to the hobby.
There is no mention at all about LOS, the only limits on missile weapons appears to be the range ruler. It doesn't even mention anything about shooting through walls...it looks like common sense will have to prevail here.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: There is no mention at all about LOS, the only limits on missile weapons appears to be the range ruler. It doesn't even mention anything about shooting through walls...it looks like common sense will have to prevail here.
So the Cult player has no way to sneak up on the Marines or avoid their gunfire?
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: There is no mention at all about LOS, the only limits on missile weapons appears to be the range ruler. It doesn't even mention anything about shooting through walls...it looks like common sense will have to prevail here.
So the Cult player has no way to sneak up on the Marines or avoid their gunfire?
That's a bit gak.
Cult units don't start on the board.
Each mission has "Ambush Points" where the Cult player deploys during his Movement phase(which comes AFTER the Deathwatch player's Movement phase) and the Deathwatch player has two "Muster Points" where he can deploy.
Certain Broodmind Cards have a Gambit allowing the Cult player to deploy in the Deathwatch player's muster point as well.
Nostromodamus wrote: Hmm. No LOS blocking still bothers me a bit, but we'll see how it goes.
It goes both ways though, and if I'm gonna be honest very little of what the tiles are depicting has anything that would actually be LOS blocking. The tiles are basically scaffolding/gantries.
Marines are 2 Wounds each and while they get two times to attack to the Cult player's one, if Wounded they can sacrifice an attack phase to instead heal themselves. Also if the Cult player is smart, they'll spread their models out to multiple tiles at a time to avoid Blast weapons(which hit EVERYTHING on a tile--including whatever fired it!) from the Marine player, forcing the Marine player to use different tactics.
Nostromodamus wrote: Hmm. No LOS blocking still bothers me a bit, but we'll see how it goes.
It goes both ways though, and if I'm gonna be honest very little of what the tiles are depicting has anything that would actually be LOS blocking. The tiles are basically scaffolding/gantries.
This. They are gantries. There are no walls. Space Hulk this ain't.
I've got lots of ideas running through my head at this point of modelling up some 3D versions of these boards as raised gantries on slightly-varying levels of elevation - just enough to give a visually appealing bit a change but no to block LOS or anything.
My main goal would be to allow you to play all the missions in the book with 3D tiles instead of the originals, but then have the option of adding in larger obstacles and things here and there that could make differences in the game by block LOS, using house rules to make that bit work.
Yup, you can jump across gaps between the gantries with a d6 test. A 1 is a fail, all other results are a pass. The jump, iirc, is up to assault range on the ruler.
The quality of the miniatures in the box is fantastic, some of the great painters out there will work wonders with the Deathwatch. Looks pretty good for converters too. I have already put some Skitarii heads on the 3rd/4th Gen hybrids for variety.
Are those marines a little bigger than normal, or are the cultists kinda small? Or is it just the squatting down pose and angle of the picture? They look almost properly scaled against each other.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Are those marines a little bigger than normal, or are the cultists kinda small? Or is it just the squatting down pose and angle of the picture? They look almost properly scales against each other.
Referring to this picture:
Spoiler:
They've all got a ton of bling that bulks them out, they're on 32mm bases, and the cultists are just human sized models. Cassius is also closer to the camera than the cultist and is standing up on a rock so he's that much bigger looking.
Aren't Cadians just humans? They're as tall as a space marine, and almost as bulky. I saw hoping these were scaled a little better relative to each other. But I think you're right, it's just the poses and camera angle. The cultist is kinda squatting and is farther back, and the marine is up on a rock and probably on tip toe on his back foot.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Are those marines a little bigger than normal, or are the cultists kinda small? Or is it just the squatting down pose and angle of the picture? They look almost properly scales against each other.
Referring to this picture:
Spoiler:
They've all got a ton of bling that bulks them out, they're on 32mm bases, and the cultists are just human sized models. Cassius is also closer to the camera than the cultist and is standing up on a rock so he's that much bigger looking.
Cassius actually looks about the same size as my "true" scale space marines in that pic. (Bly one foot is on a rock isn't it)
As someone who prides herself on upscaled (even 3.5mm of plasticard won't make them 'true scale') Marines, I can gaurantee you that those are just normal scale.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Aren't Cadians just humans? They're as tall as a space marine, and almost as bulky. I saw hoping these were scaled a little better relative to each other. But I think you're right, it's just the poses and camera angle. The cultist is kinda squatting and is farther back, and the marine is up on a rock and probably on tip toe on his back foot.
The current plastic Cadians are horrible sculpts. Have a Forgeworld human (Krieg, Elysian, etc.) on a 25mm base beside a current plastic Space Marine on a 32mm base. They look pretty good side by side. No need to upscale the Space Marine.
GW is making better and better humans, the Chaos cultists aren't that bad and the GSC cultists are even better proportioned.
MajorTom11 wrote: Ugh are the 4th gens on 25mm bases??? I thought GW didn't do 25mm anymore... damn, I hope I can change my base order from Secret Weapon still!!! :S
Who told you that? Some "big infantry" models are moving to 32 but not everyone. Imagine how ridiculous a grot would look on a 32mm base? They already look pretty list on a 25….
I kinda took a break from mini stuff for 2 years, right around when the chatter was 'switching to 32mm', just assumed it was across the board. Well lesson learned lol...
Albino Squirrel wrote: Aren't Cadians just humans? They're as tall as a space marine, and almost as bulky. I saw hoping these were scaled a little better relative to each other. But I think you're right, it's just the poses and camera angle. The cultist is kinda squatting and is farther back, and the marine is up on a rock and probably on tip toe on his back foot.
The current plastic Cadians are horrible sculpts. Have a Forgeworld human (Krieg, Elysian, etc.) on a 25mm base beside a current plastic Space Marine on a 32mm base. They look pretty good side by side. No need to upscale the Space Marine.
GW is making better and better humans, the Chaos cultists aren't that bad and the GSC cultists are even better proportioned.
That fixes the height difference, it doesn't change the Marine's tiny thighs and waist. And the GW plastics are not moving closer to the FW resins in terms of height, they're just slightly better proportioned these days; if you had a Marine and a "modern" plastic human in the same pose the proportional difference in height wouldn't even be close to the foot+ extra that should be there, you're talking the Human's eyes being level with the Marine's chin or mouth when they should be looking at the top of the sternum.
There are problems with GW's humans & Marines in relation to each other that go beyond the usual heroic scale quirks, and making larger Marines is still the easiest way to sort that since in and of themselves the human models have fewer flaws to fix.
I never get this discussion tbh, it's literally the only type of hobby project I've seen where there's always someone trying to disprove the need for the conversion and dissuade folk from doing it - is it because acknowledging that the Marines are flawed would challenged the perceived value of the models, and so you need to prove they're not flawed so you don't experience buyer's remorse or something? There must be something, because you don't see folk responding to posts talking about scratchbuilding or converting GW tanks to fix their scaling issues with "the tanks are fine, you don't need to fix them, just buy smaller infantry if you want them to look bigger"
The Patriarch is on a 50mm round. The instructions manual incorrectly labels the bases for the Magus and Primus as 25mm
as well whilst you are provided with enough bases to put them both on 32 mm (it looks far better too). IIRC this has happened with another release (possibly Deathstorm...?).
Ordered it yesterday. I'm still not sure I really want it (the later gen hybrids are great, the earlier ones a bit meh) but the store gives an extra 5% off for preorders. Compared to a regular starter it feels terribly expensive and ) bit empty (c'mon, a Sigmarine is almost as big as the single bike in there ), but Cain novels and the Draco trilogy made me interested in tbe Cults. Eh. I can always return it if I regret it in the next few days.
Worth bearing in mind that changing the base size is going to effect the gameplay, less will fit in a space.
Comparisons to Sigmarines are a bit mute, they may be bulky but they are pretty basic similar pose models without massive detail. The characters are great but the basic troopers less so IMO. Detail on DW stuff is great on everything.
It wouldn't surprise me if the DW are a slightly different proportion; the DV Chaos Chosen are just that bit bigger/bulkier than standard SM, partly because of the more upright poses.
The oval base for the biker Sergeant is an odd choice. It looks good and works for the board game but I dont want these used for biker units in 40k as well. It is the same base the Broodlord had it Deathstorm? Or the larger one the Carnifex came with?
MajorTom11 wrote: Hmm now I'm wondering what size base the Patriarch is on... 50 or 60mm...
So, by my count (for anyone looking to base with resin cast) -
Primus 1x32mm
Magus 1x32mm
Two Familiars 2x25mm
2 Purestrain Genestealers 2x32mm
4 Aberrants 4x32mm
12 Acolyte Hybrids of the 1st and 2nd generation 12x32mm
16 Neophyte Hybrids of the 3rd and 4th generation 16x25mm
1 Patriarch 1x50(60?)mm 9 deathwatch marines 32mm
1 deathwatch bike cav base
1 terminator 40mm
1 teleport homer 25mm
1 servo 25mm
so, counting up -
29x32mm
1x40mm
1x50(60?)mm 20x25mm
1x bike cav
Sound about right?
The only correction is the Mining Laser guys are also on 32mms :-)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Warhams-77 wrote: The oval base for the biker Sergeant is an odd choice. It looks good and works for the board game but I dont want these used for biker units in 40k as well. It is the same base the Broodlord had it Deathstorm? Or the larger one the Carnifex came with?
It's the large cavalry base from AoS (the size up from the small cav/skitarii sniper base) if that helps.
In my opinion it looks great and a 1000x better than the 40k bike bases which I have a real pet hate for. I hope moving forward all bikes come on these bases.
Warhams-77 wrote: The oval base for the biker Sergeant is an odd choice. It looks good and works for the board game but I dont want these used for biker units in 40k as well. It is the same base the Broodlord had it Deathstorm? Or the larger one the Carnifex came with?
Same as Spawn of Cryptus from Deathstorm(75mm oval). Carnifex base is much bigger
@Bottle: wholeheartedly agree. Swapped my Centigors from the rectangular bases to 75mm oval and they look fantastic. Had a play around with my ravenwing bikes as well and they look much much nicer.
Warhams-77 wrote: The oval base for the biker Sergeant is an odd choice. It looks good and works for the board game but I dont want these used for biker units in 40k as well. It is the same base the Broodlord had it Deathstorm? Or the larger one the Carnifex came with?
Same as Spawn of Cryptus from Deathstorm(75mm oval). Carnifex base is much bigger
@Bottle: wholeheartedly agree. Swapped my Centigors from the rectangular bases to 75mm oval and they look fantastic. Had a play around with my ravenwing bikes as well and they look much much nicer.
Thanks guys. And I have to admit the oval bases wouldnt be such a bad thing in 40k.
Weird how the some of the bases come in bags and the rest are loose, I guess making up a specific bag for the game wasn't cost effective
and I love the way the Magus has dangly sashes and other bling applied to the front, a few years back it would have been part of the body and much less detailed
Weird how the some of the bases come in bags and the rest are loose, I guess making up a specific bag for the game wasn't cost effective
and I love the way the Magus has dangly sashes and other bling applied to the front, a few years back it would have been part of the body and much less detailed
The Genestealer minis are pretty nice! Definitely, the nicest kits I've picked up in a good while.
I grabbed the WD110 on my lunch break. I haven't looked at it yet.
I also got to see the box the store ordered for someone. It's pretty hefty. Makes me want one, but I my to do list is in front of me, keeping me honest with my purchases.
totalfailure wrote: There a couple of independents around here that routinely put stuff out on Wednesdays when they get it, and have been doing so for years. There's another one that won't put it out until 1PM on Saturdays, following GW to the letter!
If an independent retailer continually puts out new releases early, and GW continues to get proof, GW can stop them from getting new releases for 6 months to 3 years, if I recall correctly.
totalfailure wrote: There a couple of independents around here that routinely put stuff out on Wednesdays when they get it, and have been doing so for years. There's another one that won't put it out until 1PM on Saturdays, following GW to the letter!
If an independent retailer continually puts out new releases early, and GW continues to get proof, GW can stop them from getting new releases for 6 months to 3 years, if I recall correctly.
Good to know.
Y'know, from a legal standpoint. It's actually terrible for trying to keep that store as a GW stockist instead of being dropped in favor of other games and/or distributors.
I never get this discussion tbh, it's literally the only type of hobby project I've seen where there's always someone trying to disprove the need for the conversion and dissuade folk from doing it - is it because acknowledging that the Marines are flawed would challenged the perceived value of the models, and so you need to prove they're not flawed so you don't experience buyer's remorse or something? There must be something, because you don't see folk responding to posts talking about scratchbuilding or converting GW tanks to fix their scaling issues with "the tanks are fine, you don't need to fix them, just buy smaller infantry if you want them to look bigger"
The whole thing is a result of evolution. Back in the RT era, marines weren't especially taller than regular humans, just bulkier in their armour. Aside from the slow scale creep in both lines (and especialy on things like the plastic catachans) the figures scale hasn't really been changed, as each new line of marines has shared availability with the previous range, and as such retained size compatibility with the "existing" range of the time. It's with the growth of the fiction/black library and iterations of authors over time turning them into bigger and bigger sized supermen that has caused the large discrepancy between the fluff and the actual models - which some people seem to call "flaws" in the models.
This famous picture didn't help. Especially since it seems that Jervis forgot how to count when he did the original sketch. (look closely).
Spoiler:
That extra foot of height has led to all sorts of "canonical" mess ever since.
I never get this discussion tbh, it's literally the only type of hobby project I've seen where there's always someone trying to disprove the need for the conversion and dissuade folk from doing it - is it because acknowledging that the Marines are flawed would challenged the perceived value of the models, and so you need to prove they're not flawed so you don't experience buyer's remorse or something? There must be something, because you don't see folk responding to posts talking about scratchbuilding or converting GW tanks to fix their scaling issues with "the tanks are fine, you don't need to fix them, just buy smaller infantry if you want them to look bigger"
The whole thing is a result of evolution. Back in the RT era, marines weren't especially taller than regular humans, just bulkier in their armour. Aside from the slow scale creep in both lines (and especialy on things like the plastic catachans) the figures scale hasn't really been changed, as each new line of marines has shared availability with the previous range, and as such retained size compatibility with the "existing" range of the time. It's with the growth of the fiction/black library and iterations of authors over time turning them into bigger and bigger sized supermen that has caused the large discrepancy between the fluff and the actual models - which some people seem to call "flaws" in the models.
This famous picture didn't help. Especially since it seems that Jervis forgot how to count when he did the original sketch. (look closely).
Spoiler:
That extra foot of height has led to all sorts of "canonical" mess ever since.
Regardless of how it happened, it has happened, and my points stand: the relative height is wrong(yes, even by the "7' tall and not an inch more" school of thought, even though it would be more like "somewhere between 7' and 7.5'" once you account for the pose), even if you buy smaller regular human infantry the Marine models still have proportion issues relative to themselves, therefore if it's a problem you feel the desire to solve the best way to do it is to modify the Marines because that solves all the issues in one go.
But again; why does this seem to matter so much to some people? If you don't see the need to modify the Marines, don't do it, but every time the subject comes up even in passing someone always seems to feel the need to step in and insist people are wrong to do it.
Weirdly enough, that PDF seems to make this a way better 40K starter set than any of the "Start Collecting" boxes, since you appear to not need a codex.
Yodhrin wrote: But again; why does this seem to matter so much to some people?
You ever heard the saying "How can you tell if someone's a vegan? Don't worry; they'll tell you!". The same applies to people who make True-Scale Marines. They're so eager to show that their Marines are the "right way" to make Marines, that their models are the way Marines a "meant" to be, almost as if there's something wrong with not only regular untouched Marine models, but also the people who like them that way.
So yeah, it comes across as obnoxious.
"I'm making my Marines True-Scale!"
No, you're not. You're making them bigger than they should be. That's ok, that's fine, but disingenuous terms like "True-Scale" just come across as someone trying to belittle those that like their Marines the way they come on the tin.
If marine size worries you just add 10mm to your marine model using conventional "tru-skalin" techniques and wait for the cannon to catch up, at this rate marines will be 10' tall by 2020.
Worrying about scale in GW miniature lines is like worrying about rules technicalities in WWF matches.
MajorTom11 wrote: I kinda took a break from mini stuff for 2 years, right around when the chatter was 'switching to 32mm', just assumed it was across the board. Well lesson learned lol...
A story I've read is that the 32s were created for AoS/Sigmarines/etc, but guys in the studio kept putting Marines on them which in turn crated a rebasing movement for several lines of 40k models onto the 32mm bases.
MajorTom11 wrote: I kinda took a break from mini stuff for 2 years, right around when the chatter was 'switching to 32mm', just assumed it was across the board. Well lesson learned lol...
A story I've read is that the 32s were created for AoS/Sigmarines/etc, but guys in the studio kept putting Marines on them which in turn crated a rebasing movement for several lines of 40k models onto the 32mm bases.
From what I've been told, it's intended for models that overhang significantly on 25s but are too small for 40s.
To add to that, another good reason to not call them true-scale is because more likely than not your modified marines are not true-scale, because that would be harder than Kirby's member each time someone buys a Lord-Celestant and just about nobody will put in that much effort (including me). Upscale is a better word, because that is what it is.
On topic, the set is only 1200 kr? That's about as much as BaC. I expected it to be more expensive.
MajorTom11 wrote: I kinda took a break from mini stuff for 2 years, right around when the chatter was 'switching to 32mm', just assumed it was across the board. Well lesson learned lol...
A story I've read is that the 32s were created for AoS/Sigmarines/etc, but guys in the studio kept putting Marines on them which in turn crated a rebasing movement for several lines of 40k models onto the 32mm bases.
Plus the 32 mm first came in Deathstorm in November 2014, a good eight months before AOS was released. Admittedly a lot ofthe Stormcast/rules etc etc were done by then though.
dragqueeninspace wrote: If marine size worries you just add 10mm to your marine model using conventional "tru-skalin" techniques and wait for the cannon to catch up, at this rate marines will be 10' tall by 2020.
Ha! They already are 3 meters tall in armor, according to ADB!
I do like that the Marines are significantly taller/more massive than the humans and hybrids here!
Yodhrin wrote: But again; why does this seem to matter so much to some people?
You ever heard the saying "How can you tell if someone's a vegan? Don't worry; they'll tell you!". The same applies to people who make True-Scale Marines. They're so eager to show that their Marines are the "right way" to make Marines, that their models are the way Marines a "meant" to be, almost as if there's something wrong with not only regular untouched Marine models, but also the people who like them that way.
So yeah, it comes across as obnoxious.
"I'm making my Marines True-Scale!"
No, you're not. You're making them bigger than they should be. That's ok, that's fine, but disingenuous terms like "True-Scale" just come across as someone trying to belittle those that like their Marines the way they come on the tin.
It matters to me because I love the 40k universe and fluff, and my OCD can't deal with marines being the same height as a guardsmen or a tau. (Also means I can't have different scale minis into my collection now days)
I need my marines to be a head/ head And shoulder taller than my normal human minis. Which to me is enough to settle the demon on my back.
I've used that term (almost always with the true in quote marks mind you), at no point am I trying to be obnoxious or look down on anyone else not doing what I'm doing. Would I love GW to release bigger marines compared to guard etc yes it would save me a lot of effort and sanity
I'm just using the term as a short hand for what I'm doing making the little burgers a bit bigger.
I'm sorry if that's happened before to you H.B.M.C , but please don't generalise people like me with some dick on the Internet with a superiority complex. (I'm just a dick on the Internet with OCD )
To add to that, another good reason to not call them true-scale is because more likely than not your modified marines are not true-scale, because that would be harder than Kirby's member each time someone buys a Lord-Celestant and just about nobody will put in that much effort (including me). Upscale is a better word, because that is what it is.
On topic, the set is only 1200 kr? That's about as much as BaC. I expected it to be more expensive.
true scale, Tru Scale, tall scale, art scale, it's all just a word for making/changing the proportions as said above I use "true" (and occasionally "tru" if I'm feeling street ), it's a shorthand for me to say just that.
I know straight away when someone says any of the above terms what they mean that their making their minis a bit bigger. To me upscale actually implies your taking the mini and moving it to a different miniature scale bracket e.g going from 28mm to 35mm etc
So I'll continue to use the term, as I don't see any harm in it , appologies for any future offence cause by my use of that term. Please just let it go
Automatically Appended Next Post: On topic I'm looking forward to the how to paint vid on these
For anyone still assembling their gribblies, I've found a mistake in my copy.
The assembly instructions for the Primus and Magus say they should be on 25mm bases. However if you assemble everything else as instructed there won't be enough and you'll have two spare 32mm bases instead.
The images on the GW site have the Primus and Magus on 32mm bases though, so I think the issue is with the assembly guide.
Finally had time to get a couple of games in last night using the new Broodkin formation, paired with 400 points of IG (a command squad and veteran squad in 2 Chimeras, 3 ratling snipers and an Autocannon Armoured Sentinel). Played against Tyranids and Slaanesh Daemons. Lost both games, but had a lot of fun.
What I took away from this first experience:
- The Broodkin Formation is potentially VERY good, especially with the Fearless/Adamantium Will rule helping keep your forces in the fight and helping to ward off some nasty Psychic powers. The first-turn Charge from the Patriarch and the Princelings is quite fun as well.
- Acolytes are just as deadly and point-efficient as they appear on paper. They also die pretty easily too. (I really hope we can bump the unit size up if/when the Codex drops.)
- Aberrants are quite interesting, and easy to underestimate. Thanks to the fact that they can choose to use their Rending Claws at I2 rather than their large, unwieldy mining tools, I was able to swat down 9 Hormagaunts who Charged through Difficult Terrain, catching the last one in a Sweeping Advance (thanks to a very lucky roll) without losing even a single Wound in return. They also survived a full round of Assault with a Keeper of Secrets and 10 Daemonettes, putting half of the Daemonettes down in the process as well. T5, W2 and Feel No Pain isn't bad.
- It is very important to remember that the Patriarch's Claws give him Shred. I may have forgotten this to my detriment a few times...
- Come the Apocalypse can be a pain in the butt, but at least the Infiltrate rule spread through the entire Formation helps uncrowd the Deployment Zone quite a bit.
- Don't try to pull off a "Refused Flank" with Come the Apocalypse allies on the board - you won't fit everyone on one side of the table, even with all that Infiltrate. LOL
- I can't roll Invisibility. Not once in two games with 4 rolls on the chart each game. Waaaaaahhhhhh!!!!
xttz wrote: For anyone still assembling their gribblies, I've found a mistake in my copy.
The assembly instructions for the Primus and Magus say they should be on 25mm bases. However if you assemble everything else as instructed there won't be enough and you'll have two spare 32mm bases instead.
The images on the GW site have the Primus and Magus on 32mm bases though, so I think the issue is with the assembly guide.
xttz wrote: For anyone still assembling their gribblies, I've found a mistake in my copy.
The assembly instructions for the Primus and Magus say they should be on 25mm bases. However if you assemble everything else as instructed there won't be enough and you'll have two spare 32mm bases instead.
The images on the GW site have the Primus and Magus on 32mm bases though, so I think the issue is with the assembly guide.
Damn. Just did mine. At least I can check and correct now.
xttz wrote: For anyone still assembling their gribblies, I've found a mistake in my copy.
The assembly instructions for the Primus and Magus say they should be on 25mm bases. However if you assemble everything else as instructed there won't be enough and you'll have two spare 32mm bases instead.
The images on the GW site have the Primus and Magus on 32mm bases though, so I think the issue is with the assembly guide.
I'm putting the accessory things (teleport thingie and servo skull) on 32mm bases instead of the 25mm ones it says in the assembly guide.
I did that since they won't be used if I play the models with 40k rules.
Have my set (and already sold off the DW). The GCult models are beautiful as expected. So many little design nods to the originals. Two poses in particular are clearly odes to the two metal Hybrids that Jes Goodwin sculpted.
The 1st/2nd gen Hybrids are much bigger than the metal originals though.
Somebody on BoardGameGeek pointed out that base size impacts the board game as a zone can only hold as many models as bases can fit "entirely within the zone's border".
That means the Magus and Primus (on 32mm bases on the GW site and on the playthrough) almost certainly need the larger bases. The baggie of bases also provides enough 32mm bases to base those two characters---and not enough if you use 25mm bases as the instruction sheet recommends.
I am glad that they have made the rules available online for 40k. I prefer hard copy, but if I end up not being able to get the WD the Deathwatch stuff is in, I will settle for pdf.
Really excited for the SM stuff. Quite varied and looks very nice.
Yodhrin wrote: But again; why does this seem to matter so much to some people?
You ever heard the saying "How can you tell if someone's a vegan? Don't worry; they'll tell you!". The same applies to people who make True-Scale Marines. They're so eager to show that their Marines are the "right way" to make Marines, that their models are the way Marines a "meant" to be, almost as if there's something wrong with not only regular untouched Marine models, but also the people who like them that way.
So yeah, it comes across as obnoxious.
"I'm making my Marines True-Scale!"
No, you're not. You're making them bigger than they should be. That's ok, that's fine, but disingenuous terms like "True-Scale" just come across as someone trying to belittle those that like their Marines the way they come on the tin.
1. If you'll look back, this thread of "debate" started with someone casually asking about the size of the cultists relative to the size of the marines in the box. The vegan here was the person who decided it was vital to inform everyone, as you evidently do, that everything is fine and truescale is stupid and not necessary and STOP LIKING THINGS I DON'T LIKE! People express dissatisfaction with aspects of GW models all the time, this is the only example in which I've seen folk feel the need to immediately try and shout them down to the point of insisting their preferred conversions are unnecessary and they should stop talking about them. In short; physician, heal thyself.
2. You, like so many others, assert "you want to make them bigger than they should be", and yet like so many others, you completely fail to acknowledge or respond to the arguments for the other view. Dismissing someone's arguments out of hand doesn't make them magically vanish, so try again; explain the flaw in this logic - based on even the most conservative examination of the background, either GW humans are wrong in terms of height, or GW marines are wrong in terms of height, and since GW marines have other flaws beyond the height issue it's the easier and more efficient path for someone who cares about the problem(perhaps if I highlight this more aggressively you'll notice it this time, since you evidently did not when I expressed the same sentiment in the previous post) to fix the marines.
3. So it appears my initial hypothesis was correct; the reason people insist on having a go at anyone who mentions truescaling is they apparently take criticism of the models as criticism of them, rather than criticism of GW. It's not, unbunch. I mean seriously, how do you even manage to attach so much judgement and malice so such an innocuous descriptor, that'd be like just randomly deciding that "artscale"(ie the actual term for making marines "bigger than they should be") actually secretly means anyone who uses it thinks only their marines count as art and everyone else's are rubbish.
Picked up my copies of the game today, along with the WD. Truly a glorious day to have new Genestealer Cult models and rules for them as well. Kudos to GW for bringing them back, and hoping to see a real codex of some kind for them in the not to distant future.
-Tim
Just placed an order for the Librarian on eBay for conversion into a Crimson Fists Librarian. I have the Deathwatch half of the boxed set coming as well (so I will have two of the Librarian). Jealous of you guys that already have everything.
1. If you'll look back, this thread of "debate" started with someone casually asking about the size of the cultists relative to the size of the marines in the box. The vegan here was the person who decided it was vital to inform everyone, as you evidently do, that everything is fine and truescale is stupid and not necessary and STOP LIKING THINGS I DON'T LIKE! People express dissatisfaction with aspects of GW models all the time, this is the only example in which I've seen folk feel the need to immediately try and shout them down to the point of insisting their preferred conversions are unnecessary and they should stop talking about them. In short; physician, heal thyself.
Yeah, please quote me where I said exactly that. Because I didn't.
privateer4hire wrote:Somebody on BoardGameGeek pointed out that base size impacts the board game as a zone can only hold as many models as bases can fit "entirely within the zone's border".
That means the Magus and Primus (on 32mm bases on the GW site and on the playthrough) almost certainly need the larger bases. The baggie of bases also provides enough 32mm bases to base those two characters---and not enough if you use 25mm bases as the instruction sheet recommends.
Not the first time GW instructions are wrong on base sizes. Also happend with the AoS box.
Have got to say that I love these miniatures, they are a joy to paint as well:
Spoiler:
@kb Lock:
To my shame I have never played Space Hulk but the game shares a lot with BaC. I think there is a lot of replay value just because of the choosing of your Kill Team and the way that the cult ambushes are spawned via the cards. It is very easy to pick up but I think learning all of the tactical nuances will take time. The missus is currently beating me 2 mission wins to nil
Yeah, it's a great box. Too bad I won't be able to paint them until I finish up my commission projects, can't be selfish with my bench time.
My only complaint is that there are a few really delicate pieces for the DW, so be careful when removing them from the sprue and cleaning.
This. The chain with the chapter badge and inquisition badge that runs across the gorget for Cassius is very delicate. Broke mine cutting off the frame but managed to fix easily enough.
Yeah, it's a great box. Too bad I won't be able to paint them until I finish up my commission projects, can't be selfish with my bench time.
My only complaint is that there are a few really delicate pieces for the DW, so be careful when removing them from the sprue and cleaning.
This. The chain with the chapter badge and inquisition badge that runs across the gorget for Cassius is very delicate. Broke mine cutting off the frame but managed to fix easily enough.
I knocked the rosarius from his arm when gluing the body together, it's so damn fragile. Even if I could fix it there's no way it would stay attached in future, so I recommend this:
I have just finished assembling my cult and they are simply glorious. At this stage I am spent with GW - there is nothing that beat the pinnacle of glory am I sat atop now that GSC have been released.
A nice thing to note is that the 3rd and 4th gen guys are the best 'normal human' minis out there and have massive conversion potential when they eventually release stand alone boxes. Tempestus Scion heads fit on to them really nicely too so creating a bit of variation in the cult will be easy.
I managed to snag a second set of tiles and cards from eBay for £8.75 all included. Cannot wait to set up a MASSIVE board for some homebrew scenario :-)
I'm still waiting, but I ordered it super late (Thursday I think), so it's understandable. The store is usually ace about this.
I can't wrap my head around bitsandkits's prices, though. Is it really 10 for 8 of the fourth gen guys? I might try to get some chaos cultists for that price.
Bottle wrote: I managed to snag a second set of tiles and cards from eBay for £8.75 all included. Cannot wait to set up a MASSIVE board for some homebrew scenario :-)
I'd put money on GW releasing a new scenario for Overkill since they've done that for Execution Force and Betrayal at Calth already.
Got my half of the box, didn't want it for the game but for the GSC.
B-E-A-utiful models upon closer inspection. I love the models and will be fielding them with my Tyranids at some point.
The rules/cards/tiles all got donated to my FLGS for Dark Heresy, Necromunda, etc. They'll make good use of them.
Still waiting for my set from Triple Helix (dispatched Thursday, apparently >. > in the meantime I ordered a Patriarch and some Tyranid Prime parts from BitsAndKits to tide me over
Can anyone with Overkill and Calth say if the tiles match up in any way? Would make for some more interesting scenarios (and LOS-blocking!)
Charax wrote: Still waiting for my set from Triple Helix (dispatched Thursday, apparently >. > in the meantime I ordered a Patriarch and some Tyranid Prime parts from BitsAndKits to tide me over
Can anyone with Overkill and Calth say if the tiles match up in any way? Would make for some more interesting scenarios (and LOS-blocking!)
Not at all, BaC is heaxagonal 'zones/ on tiles that tessellate as hexagons.
Bottle wrote: I managed to snag a second set of tiles and cards from eBay for £8.75 all included. Cannot wait to set up a MASSIVE board for some homebrew scenario :-)
I'd put money on GW releasing a new scenario for Overkill since they've done that for Execution Force and Betrayal at Calth already.
I've been playing this weekend and I love the system. Easy to learn and games can be quite fast. With different friends playing a Deathwatch marine each and another playing the Genestealer Cult. It was fun. I do wish there were line of sight rules (corners, corridors, etc). Would make it more tactical I think.
It would also be great to get new scenarios. It would be even better to get expansions. A new box with new tiles and f.e. an Ork Freeboterz troupe. New missions with tiles that you can combine with the basic game to make even more epic combat. I dont get my hopes to high as GW usually abandons these kind of games. But I think it would be a big hit. They should think about it. And going wild... perhaps... rules to make your own Deathwatch marines for the games (combining different weapons, perhaps chapter traits...). Really, the system is fun. It would be a waste not to expand on it.
Same with Betrayal at Calth. You could actually play some decent platoon-ish sized games with BaC as a core rule mechanic. Would just need to make stats for the models and their weapons.
But as you said, GW make these games and other than the recent expansions in WD/on the web, they tend to move on to the next thing.
Bottle wrote: I managed to snag a second set of tiles and cards from eBay for £8.75 all included. Cannot wait to set up a MASSIVE board for some homebrew scenario :-)
I'd put money on GW releasing a new scenario for Overkill since they've done that for Execution Force and Betrayal at Calth already.
I've been playing this weekend and I love the system. Easy to learn and games can be quite fast. With different friends playing a Deathwatch marine each and another playing the Genestealer Cult. It was fun. I do wish there were line of sight rules (corners, corridors, etc). Would make it more tactical I think.
It would also be great to get new scenarios. It would be even better to get expansions. A new box with new tiles and f.e. an Ork Freeboterz troupe. New missions with tiles that you can combine with the basic game to make even more epic combat. I dont get my hopes to high as GW usually abandons these kind of games. But I think it would be a big hit. They should think about it. And going wild... perhaps... rules to make your own Deathwatch marines for the games (combining different weapons, perhaps chapter traits...). Really, the system is fun. It would be a waste not to expand on it.
That would be amazing if they released little expansions, like 2-4 new tiles and a couple new models and cards for both factions. But we all know GW doesn't work that way, i'd love to be surprised though. I personally would prefer a more small scale 40k game to have support, one that is played with more easy and quick to learn rules. Theres times when I work 7 days a week and I don't have the time for regular 40k. Love the setting...but not only is 40k too complicated IMO it takes longer to play altogether. I also prefer the idea of playing on these pre made and nice looking tiles I can de assemble as opposed to a giant wooden 40k board.
Bottle wrote: I managed to snag a second set of tiles and cards from eBay for £8.75 all included. Cannot wait to set up a MASSIVE board for some homebrew scenario :-)
I'd put money on GW releasing a new scenario for Overkill since they've done that for Execution Force and Betrayal at Calth already.
I've been playing this weekend and I love the system. Easy to learn and games can be quite fast. With different friends playing a Deathwatch marine each and another playing the Genestealer Cult. It was fun. I do wish there were line of sight rules (corners, corridors, etc). Would make it more tactical I think.
It would also be great to get new scenarios. It would be even better to get expansions. A new box with new tiles and f.e. an Ork Freeboterz troupe. New missions with tiles that you can combine with the basic game to make even more epic combat. I dont get my hopes to high as GW usually abandons these kind of games. But I think it would be a big hit. They should think about it. And going wild... perhaps... rules to make your own Deathwatch marines for the games (combining different weapons, perhaps chapter traits...). Really, the system is fun. It would be a waste not to expand on it.
That would be amazing if they released little expansions, like 2-4 new tiles and a couple new models and cards for both factions. But we all know GW doesn't work that way, i'd love to be surprised though. I personally would prefer a more small scale 40k game to have support, one that is played with more easy and quick to learn rules. Theres times when I work 7 days a week and I don't have the time for regular 40k. Love the setting...but not only is 40k too complicated IMO it takes longer to play altogether. I also prefer the idea of playing on these pre made and nice looking tiles I can de assemble as opposed to a giant wooden 40k board.
In the fluff of the DWO booklet they talk about another Kill Team mission against the Orks. That'd be a pretty cool expansion or sequel/prequel, especially if it meant new Ork Boyz minis on a level of quality similar to the GSC (current ones are almost a decade old).
Genestealer Cults are now also officially revealed in SH: Deathwing for PC according to games magazines who have seen the newest video footage from Focus. This preview from Gamers Global shows 1st/2nd Gen Hybrids at ~5:46. There are probably more in it.
Space Hulk content starts at 2:01 - the video contains gore & blood (NSFW) - via Herald of Sanguinius on B&C
Bottle wrote: I managed to snag a second set of tiles and cards from eBay for £8.75 all included. Cannot wait to set up a MASSIVE board for some homebrew scenario :-)
I'd put money on GW releasing a new scenario for Overkill since they've done that for Execution Force and Betrayal at Calth already.
Let's hope it's a scenario that combines two full set of tiles then! ;-)
Two of the troop sprue that contains all the hybrids/purestrains/Aberrants and one of the character sprue with the magus/patriarch/primus/familiars . I got two of each
Bottle wrote: I managed to snag a second set of tiles and cards from eBay for £8.75 all included. Cannot wait to set up a MASSIVE board for some homebrew scenario :-)
I'd put money on GW releasing a new scenario for Overkill since they've done that for Execution Force
Wha???
Where can I find this scenario? My wife and I enjoy the Execution force mechanics, but it's too easy. Another scenario or two would be nice.
Bottle wrote: I managed to snag a second set of tiles and cards from eBay for £8.75 all included. Cannot wait to set up a MASSIVE board for some homebrew scenario :-)
I'd put money on GW releasing a new scenario for Overkill since they've done that for Execution Force
Wha???
Where can I find this scenario? My wife and I enjoy the Execution force mechanics, but it's too easy. Another scenario or two would be nice.
Bottle wrote: I managed to snag a second set of tiles and cards from eBay for £8.75 all included. Cannot wait to set up a MASSIVE board for some homebrew scenario :-)
I'd put money on GW releasing a new scenario for Overkill since they've done that for Execution Force
Wha???
Where can I find this scenario? My wife and I enjoy the Execution force mechanics, but it's too easy. Another scenario or two would be nice.
It was in White Dwarf.
It's actually downloadable from the Black Library site as well when you can find the actual rules;
Bottle wrote: I managed to snag a second set of tiles and cards from eBay for £8.75 all included. Cannot wait to set up a MASSIVE board for some homebrew scenario :-)
I'd put money on GW releasing a new scenario for Overkill since they've done that for Execution Force
Wha???
Where can I find this scenario? My wife and I enjoy the Execution force mechanics, but it's too easy. Another scenario or two would be nice.
well you can add some demon prince rules etc from the BL site
Bottle wrote: I managed to snag a second set of tiles and cards from eBay for £8.75 all included. Cannot wait to set up a MASSIVE board for some homebrew scenario :-)
I'd put money on GW releasing a new scenario for Overkill since they've done that for Execution Force and Betrayal at Calth already.
I've been playing this weekend and I love the system. Easy to learn and games can be quite fast. With different friends playing a Deathwatch marine each and another playing the Genestealer Cult. It was fun. I do wish there were line of sight rules (corners, corridors, etc). Would make it more tactical I think.
It would also be great to get new scenarios. It would be even better to get expansions. A new box with new tiles and f.e. an Ork Freeboterz troupe. New missions with tiles that you can combine with the basic game to make even more epic combat. I dont get my hopes to high as GW usually abandons these kind of games. But I think it would be a big hit. They should think about it. And going wild... perhaps... rules to make your own Deathwatch marines for the games (combining different weapons, perhaps chapter traits...). Really, the system is fun. It would be a waste not to expand on it.
That would be amazing if they released little expansions, like 2-4 new tiles and a couple new models and cards for both factions. But we all know GW doesn't work that way, i'd love to be surprised though. I personally would prefer a more small scale 40k game to have support, one that is played with more easy and quick to learn rules. Theres times when I work 7 days a week and I don't have the time for regular 40k. Love the setting...but not only is 40k too complicated IMO it takes longer to play altogether. I also prefer the idea of playing on these pre made and nice looking tiles I can de assemble as opposed to a giant wooden 40k board.
I really like this set of rules for the extreme ease of access. (They feel like a bit like a light version of AoS...)
I'll make some custom character cards to try to lure my boardgaming friends into playing quick table top skirmishes like InquisitorMunda/Inq28 on proper wargaming terrain.
Bottle wrote: I managed to snag a second set of tiles and cards from eBay for £8.75 all included. Cannot wait to set up a MASSIVE board for some homebrew scenario :-)
I'd put money on GW releasing a new scenario for Overkill since they've done that for Execution Force
Wha???
Where can I find this scenario? My wife and I enjoy the Execution force mechanics, but it's too easy. Another scenario or two would be nice.
It was in White Dwarf.
It's actually downloadable from the Black Library site as well when you can find the actual rules;
My box arrived this afternoon, and I've been building the models and I have to say, I think they're fantastic. I can't wait to get some paint on these.
Unix wrote: As someone who's primarily interested in this for the cult models, is the whole game worth picking up, or should I just pick up sprues on eBay?
It's a nice boardgame. High production values on the tiles. More random than a game of 40k and much more accessible, I'd say somewhere between AoS and SpaceHulk in complexity. If that is interesting to you, I'd reccomend the entire game.
Beautiful! I was hoping to buy a wooden box with padded inside to store my game pieces in (sans miniatures), let's hope Forge World do some etched brass logos for the cult that I could embellish the box with too. Well, that's the dream.
xttz wrote: For anyone still assembling their gribblies, I've found a mistake in my copy.
The assembly instructions for the Primus and Magus say they should be on 25mm bases. However if you assemble everything else as instructed there won't be enough and you'll have two spare 32mm bases instead.
The images on the GW site have the Primus and Magus on 32mm bases though, so I think the issue is with the assembly guide.
Other than GW's studio Magus and Primus being on 32mm has there been any official answer on this (I wouldn't care but I'm playing the models for the board game)?
In fact, my set's bases come out just right if I follow the assembly guide and put the Magus and Primus on 25mm bases.
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Lingula wrote: In case anyone is wondering about the potential for playing about with the minis a bit (specifically the GSC as they are clearly the most important)
A Tempestus Scion head on a 3rd gen (the beret heads look pretty good too)
The best stealer head around (need to get myself some more) on a hybrid body
The models won't be raking in awards any time soon but they add some nice variety to the available ranges (alongside the Cthood heads from Victoria Miniatures et al).
Other than GW's studio Magus and Primus being on 32mm has there been any official answer on this (I wouldn't care but I'm playing the models for the board game)?
In fact, my set's bases come out just right if I follow the assembly guide and put the Magus and Primus on 25mm bases.
Our store got an email stating that the primus and magus are intended to based with 32mm, not 25. In addition, with their shipment they received 10 boxes of DWOK and 20 loose 32mm bases, to hand out to people who bought the boxes. They just taped them to the outside cellophane.
Other than GW's studio Magus and Primus being on 32mm has there been any official answer on this (I wouldn't care but I'm playing the models for the board game)?
In fact, my set's bases come out just right if I follow the assembly guide and put the Magus and Primus on 25mm bases.
Our store got an email stating that the primus and magus are intended to based with 32mm, not 25. In addition, with their shipment they received 10 boxes of DWOK and 20 loose 32mm bases, to hand out to people who bought the boxes. They just taped them to the outside cellophane.
I've got plenty spare 25mm bases, so I just used a couple of those. The other 3rd and 4th generation Hybrids are on 25mm bases too, so it seems appropriate but then, the 3-armed 3rd generation Hybrids with lasers are on 32mm bases, so perhaps the Primus should be too ...
I think I'm gonna stick the biggish-medium minis on dice 30mm bases, depending on what they look best on. That's me main source of slottabases these days, and it'll keep the GSC in line with everything else. So if anyone needs just a couple of 32mms for their magus and primus...
Spikey bits had an article today that they were expecting to see a cult supplement or codex within 3 months... pretty wishlisty but they went into some detail about it -
It'd be nice to get some models that didn't have autoguns/autopistols. I mean the pistol ones are easy enough to convert, but the autogun minis present more of a challenge.
On a quasi-related not to DWOK, did anyone get the fiction book that GW were marketing as part of one of the pkg deals? If so, are the stories (anthology or is it a novel?) any good?
The book is an anthology of the eleven Deathwatch short stories released leading up to the game's release. The stories are about the Kill Team Cassius members. I've read the first couple and they are very very good. Can't comment on the rest though obviously.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It'd be nice to get some models that didn't have autoguns/autopistols. I mean the pistol ones are easy enough to convert, but the autogun minis present more of a challenge.
I just hope they have rules for an inquisitor in your deathwatch team.... But it should be a fun game none the less, really want to pick it up once I got a bit more cash.
So is there any news for 'normal' releases for the GSC? I love the hybrids but am not going to buy the whole box when I have no use for the marines & other figs.
ecthelion wrote: So is there any news for 'normal' releases for the GSC? I love the hybrids but am not going to buy the whole box when I have no use for the marines & other figs.
Everyone assumes there are going to be a small release for them including these models, a few more and a codex. No official word yet though.
If you have the time and can bother, you can buy the box and just sell off the marines one by one to get back about 2/3rds of the total cost of the box. That's probably a lot cheaper than any other way to get that many models.
Battle brothers with Tyranids is fine for me
