83501
Post by: Nostromodamus
 BloodGrin wrote: Nostromodamus wrote:
Are they free?
It just says they will be available on the website.
Maybe I'm missing something or being too cynical...
Perhaps you missed the big load of free AOS rules and scrolls or the Nid data sheets for the releases not too long ago.
Knew about the AoS stuff, didn't know about the Tyranid stuff. Thanks!
I usually play 1 page 40k/Kill Team instead of the GW rules these days, so I'm not familiar with their website offerings.
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Post by: migooo
 Yodhrin wrote: BloodGrin wrote: jreilly89 wrote:I'm actually pretty hyped for this, and depending on the price, may pick one up.
Also, I get that it's cool to hate on GW, but seriously, they bring back Genestealer Cult and half the people hate on it? GW could've just said "feth you" and kept pumping out gak like AoS. I think it's cool they're trying to bring back some fan favorites.
The GW hate borders on pathetic these days.
We have had great releases and this is another one.
People seem to stick around just to hate and whine and piss on everything that comes by.
I mean how pathetic does your life have to be to hate the company so much, yet you can't sack up and cut ties so you just troll message boards.
Anyway, looking forward to this.
Will pick up one box myself and will probably split another to get another GSC half depending on the rules.
Seriously, are you guys living in some weird alternate reality or something? Because there are more people complaining about "haters" on this one page than there are people actually hating on this release in the entire thread. Even AdMech - which was the most positively received GW release I'd ever seen(and I've been dragging my carcass around 40K fandom for 20 years now) - didn't get as universally positive a reaction as the return of the GSC.
In the local idiom; get a haud o' yersels, ya bams.
migooo wrote: BloodGrin wrote:migooo wrote:GSC in a tyranid army.....that's new isn't it. Normally the regular tyranids just nom them with everyone else maybe they go a little more willingly but still.
Not new.
GSC are the front runners, harbingers of the Tyranid coming and paving the way with the Magus acting like a homing beacon,
But yes they do get consumed with everything else when it is all said and done and are happy for it.
i dont see them going out their way to consume the cult but neither do i see them not eating them if they are in the way to eat an army/ house / town etc honestly. maybe i see the hive mind as just eternal hunger and it isnt but i also dont see it capable of rational thought
The hive mind has been depicted as reasonably intelligent on several occasions. Bestial, certainly, but not entirely instinctual. And remember, most of the actual "eating" comes after an area is already under their control; I don't think it's far-fetched to have scenarios in which the hive mind takes direct control over the broodmind and uses them to help overrun a region/hive before having them gleefully leap into the digestion pools 
Man the hive mind is cold.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
migooo wrote:
migooo wrote: BloodGrin wrote:migooo wrote:GSC in a tyranid army.....that's new isn't it. Normally the regular tyranids just nom them with everyone else maybe they go a little more willingly but still.
...I don't think it's far-fetched to have scenarios in which the hive mind takes direct control over the broodmind and uses them to help overrun a region/hive before having them gleefully leap into the digestion pools
Man the hive mind is cold.
...it's not so bad once you get your shoulders under.
Oh, wait...
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Post by: godardc
Some news here (french forum)
http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?s=8b274ff35047ea8d7525f9e927845c7a&showtopic=238731&page=11
So we have 60pts for the terminator, 35 for the jump pack guys, 40 for the bike, 95 for Cassius, 95 for the libby, 535 for the kill eam Cassius (everyone) and 175 for squad donatus ( DA, SW, UM, IF and IH).
Unfortunately, no rules scan allowed on this french forum...
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Post by: Red Corsair
Looks like cassius and libby lead a squad of the normal power armor dudes whie the two jumpers, termy and bike are possible IC's just by the way they are listed.
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Post by: MajorTom11
By the layout of the boards, they really should have just made them space-hulk compatible. Shame to miss the opportunity imho.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Could someone please translate the datasheet?
Better pics of the board- looks pretty nice. Though to be honest you could easily use Space Hulk tiles if you have them...
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Post by: M0ff3l
the first thing says they are for all rules purposes 1 unit, and no one can leave the unit even if they have independant character
the second thing is reroll 1s to wound and armor pen
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Post by: Kanluwen
The Raven Guard guy is definitely rocking a waterslide transfer rather than embossed iconography. You can see some silvering around it.
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Post by: Warhams-77
German formation sheet - via Atia's War of Sigmar blog
Translation
Kill Team: All individual units of this formation are treated as one unit - called Kill Team. They are deployed as one unit. This unit cannot be split even if some of them are Independent Characters.
Aquila Doctrine: Models in this formation may re-roll 1s to wound and 1s rolled for armour penetration
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Post by: Kanluwen
For 535 points?
Yeeeah...that's no bueno.
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Post by: Paradigm
Need to see the stats, but I love the fact we're talking 500+ points for the squad, Hopefully they're the kind of badasses one would expect for that, rather than just Sternguard with a few special rules.
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Post by: Swara
At least it looks like their are individual rules for each, hopefully you can put them in to any imperial army.
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Post by: Kanluwen
They're 535 points as a Kill-Team; which requires them all to be deployed as one unit that they can never break (even those which are ICs).
OR you can instead field them piecemeal for the exact same number of points but the ability to add them somewhere they can do some good.
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Post by: Warhams-77
No surprise, but you can see their new faction symbol at the top.
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Post by: Slayer-Fan123
Now all we need are stats...
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Post by: unmercifulconker
Special rules:
You think this is a game?:
If one of your deathwatch models suffers any wound, ignore this wound and carry on as normal. You honestly think that punk ass ork wounded your badass incarnate? Stop acting like this is a game.
Do they think its a game?:
When any of your deathwatch models gains line of sight of any enemy unit, remove that unit from play. What did you pick up those dice for? Anything the deathwatch look at is going to die in their general direction.
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Post by: Frozen Ocean
Garran Branatar is gorgeous. As soon as I saw him, I wanted to do light conversion to add him to my friend's Salamander army - then I noticed that he's already a Salamander!
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Post by: endtransmission
 ShaneTB wrote:What's the other army?... They probably mean a detachment to a Tyranid army.
I could see them allowing Guard as well (though this will cause some fluffy players, like me, to twitch slightly due to some list options) to account for the cult infiltrating local militia or guard regiments
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
pages with stats shown here (German)
https://www.facebook.com/AAStudios/
not in a position to transfer them across at them moment
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Post by: ecurtz
 MajorTom11 wrote:By the layout of the boards, they really should have just made them space-hulk compatible. Shame to miss the opportunity imho.
But then they couldn't use those ridiculous rectangular spaces to make it bike compatible.
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Post by: ORicK
I look forward to them VERY much!
I have a few of the Original hybrids as well as the Magus.
After waiting way too long (20 years?) a few years back i just painted them to use in my regular Tyranid/Genestealer army.
Should have waited just a bit longer hahaha...
But for me this is great news.
In regard to transport (an alternative to the limosines):
MO the Forgeworld armoured Conveyor is the perfect transport with the correct retro-look..
Furthermore Micro Arts has a few resin vehicles (cars) that are smaller than limosines, but for small units they have the right size. Cults are undercover in cities, so smaller cars should be perfect.
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
Squinting at the preview the Patriarch appears to be Psyker level 2.
...but it blurry enough to be a 1. 
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Post by: Slayer-Fan123
I don't do translation, but I KNOW LP is wounds. Seeing everyone with 1 wound is kinda disappointing.
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Post by: Breotan
Bits sellers are going to make a killing on this one. That White Scars biker is easily going for $50.
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Post by: gorgon
 Kanluwen wrote: gorgon wrote: Tyran wrote:I just realized that the box doesn't has human cultists. I guess if you want a full Genestealer cult you need to ally AM for the human fodder.
Yeah, I think that's how we'll get all the tanks, etc. into the army. I'd be surprised to see "Cult Leman Russes" etc. in the eventual codex. GW doesn't approach army design that way anymore.
Again, who says you're going to get tanks? Who says that we're not going to see the "human fodder" whenever we get a full Codex release?
Well...*I* say that I'm going to get tanks, because this is 7th edition and there isn't much that can stop me from doing so. The very worst case for allies would still be CTA, right?
And given their approach to allies, detachments and formations over the past few years, I'm not sure why you think the studio would duplicate AM-like units in the codex. Anything is possible, but a Harlequins-style release -- note that was how Hastings first talked about it -- suggests a very focused, limited list with the expectation that you ally in/take another detachment or formation of the other stuff you want to field. Both Skitarri and Cult Mechanicus also followed this approach.
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Post by: GrimDork
If this was more even like Dark Vengeance I would consider just waiting for the cultists to come up, but since they're like 4/5 of the box's model contents...probably wouldn't be much more to just pick the whole thing up retail and have some space marines to paint too.
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
For those not fond of Facebook.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Any close ups of the cards per chance?
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Post by: gorgon
 Sinful Hero wrote:Squinting at the preview the Patriarch appears to be Psyker level 2.
...but it blurry enough to be a 1.
Level 2 would be cool. They were certainly powerful psykers in the fluff and in their last official 40K incarnation. It'd be nice to see that continue. Level 1 would be disappointing.
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
Not so far, as much as I'm aware of.
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Post by: MajorTom11
I am pretty sure that symbol was the Genestealer symbol far before it was the Tyranid one. I wouldn't automatically assume that GSC would be Nid only units just yet.
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Post by: inquisitorlewis
Execution Force was the last GW product I have purchased.
Looks like I will end up buying in on this game as well.
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Post by: pretre
That biker looks like he might have a teleport homer. Cheap way to get one in a list through allies.
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Post by: Warhams-77
GC are a new faction, thats the Tyranid symbol
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Post by: pretre
Don't you mean ARE NOT?
I don't see a GC symbol.
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Post by: M0ff3l
in the leaks, the GC have a new symbol on the top of their rules pages. Just like the deathwatch guys.
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Post by: Warhams-77
Yes thats what I meant, the Tyranid symbol is a different one, they are two different factions.
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Post by: Nevelon
The symbol on the chart is a double grub thing, while the one on the leaked pics is a single one. Different symbols, different armies. Ninja’d twice. I need more coffee...
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Post by: Warhams-77
The Genestealer Cult symbol
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Sinful Hero wrote:Squinting at the preview the Patriarch appears to be Psyker level 2.
...but it blurry enough to be a 1.
It looks to me to say he rolls on "Telepathy" as well.
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
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Post by: godardc
They seem to be standard sternguards and vanguards, it is a bit disappointing.
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Post by: Tyran
I'm still trying to understand how the hell a Genestealer Cult has access to a Bonesword.
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Post by: Tactical_Spam
Tyran wrote:I'm still trying to understand how the hell a Genestealer Cult has access to a Bonesword.
Its just a picture, the profile listed above it is rending claws 
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Post by: JoeRugby
Are the Deathwatch marines looking bigger than standard 40k marines to anyone else?
In the pic of e game they seem to be taller than the cultists
Edit: might just be wishful thinking on my part 
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Post by: Tyran
 Tactical_Spam wrote: Tyran wrote:I'm still trying to understand how the hell a Genestealer Cult has access to a Bonesword.
Its just a picture, the profile listed above it is rending claws
The Primus has a Bonesword.
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Post by: kronk
That's a lot of 1 wound guys, Cassius aside. I assume the Librarian is also 2 wounds.
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Post by: MajorTom11
Just in from BOLS -
Patriarch Ghosar (unkown price).
WS 7
BS-?
S-5
T-5
W-3
I-7
A-4
Ld-10
Sv-4+
Wargear;
Patriarch’s Claws-???
Genestealer Familiar-???
Special rules.
Bulky
Fear
Fearless
Hit and Run
Independent Charakter
Infiltrate
Move Througt Cover
Psyker lv 2 (Telepathy)
Stealh
The Favoured Disciples: troops 17 meltabombs (12 models) .
WS.4
BS.3
S.4
T.3
W.1
I.4
A.2
LD.8
SV.5+
Wargear.;
Autopistol
Ccw
Rending claws. User S. 5ap. Melee,Rending
Assault granades.
Special Rules;
Fearless.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
I can't wait to field my Broodlord, Spawn of Cryptus and Patriarch all together.
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Post by: M0ff3l
*rough-ish translation of the deathwatch rules, I know german, but I don't know some of the rule names in german*
Edryc Setorax 35 points
4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 3+ (unique)
2 lightning claws
frag/krak grenades
and they shall know no fear
bulky
deepstrike
stealth
Attack from the shadows:
until the start of the second game turn, Edryx Setorax has the shrouded special rule
Winged Redemption:
Edryx Setorax can use his jump pack in the movement and the assault phase of the same turn. Additionally he can reroll failed hammer of wrath attacks.
Heroic intervention:
A unit with this special rule can reroll one or both of the dice when rolling charge distance. Aditionally he always passes a glorious intervention test.
Ortan Cassius 95 points
5 4 4 4 2 4 2 10 3+ (unique)
Cannot be taken in the same army as Chaplain Cassius
Bolt pistol
Crozius Arcanum (S+2, AP4, melee, concussive)
frag/krak grenades
iron halo (the 4++ wargear, not sure what it is called)
special ammunition
Independant character
Zealot
Garran Branatar 60 points
4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 2+ (unique)
Terminator armor
Heavy Flamer
Master crafted melta gun
Mastercrafted powerfist
And they shall know no fear
fearless (lol)
bulky
deepstrike
relentless
Master of fire:
Gains feel no pain against flamer weapons (as defined in the warhammer 40k rules). Also when using his heavy flamer he can reroll to wound rolls. And reroll failed armor pen rolls.
Antor Delassio 35 points
4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 3+ (unique)
Hand flamer
chainsword
frag/krak grenades
And they shall know no fear
bulky
furious charge
deepstrike
Heroic intervention (same as Edryc Setorax)
Jetek Suberei 40 points
4 4 4 5 1 4 2 9 3+ (unique)
Twin linked boltgun
Power sword
frag/krak grenades
Special ammunition
Teleporter homer
Jink
split fire (i think)
and they shall know no fear
skilled rider
hammer of wrath
very bulky
relentless
Hit and run (thx BloodGrin)
Born in the saddle:
Jetek Suberei adds 1 to his strength when he resolves his hammer of wrath hits.
Squad Donatus 175 points
4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 3+ (5 of them all unique)
Vael Donatus has a bolter and special ammunition
Drenn Redblade has a bolter, special ammunition and two close combat weapons
Rodricus Grytt has a Deatwatch Fragcannon
Ennox Sorrlock has a combi-melta and special ammunition
Zameon Gydrael has a plasma pistol and powersword
All have frag/krak grenades
And they shall know no fear
Counterattack (only redblade)
Precision shots (only Donatus)
Stubborn (only Gydrael) (thx Warhams-77)
Feel no pain 6+ (only Sorrlock)
Deathwatch frag cannon:
Frag shot: Template, S6, AP-, Assault 2 Rending
Some other shot: 24" S7, AP5, Assault 2
EDIT: have not seen a picture of the librarian yet, would love to translate it if anyone has it.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
The more I try to clean up the image, the more I am sure that the Patriarch rolls for spells on Telepathy.
For the right points, a reasonable shot at Invisibility could be a real benefit for 'Nids, though the real boon would still be Purestrain Genestealers assaulting from Deepstrike.
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Post by: Azreal13
Is it just me, or are all those USRs on all those characters going to make administering the unit formation in 40K an absolute ball ache?
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Post by: Kanluwen
I am going to have SO MUCH FUN using these guys as attachments to my squads.
60720
Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
 Azreal13 wrote:Is it just me, or are all those USRs on all those characters going to make administering the unit formation in 40K an absolute ball ache?
it'll slow things down a bit,
but at the points cost you'll have less other stuff to worry about and since they'll be moving as a unit rather than wandering off by themselves that will help speed stuff up too
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Post by: M0ff3l
Kanluwen wrote:I am going to have SO MUCH FUN using these guys as attachments to my squads.
only cassius has independent character (librarian could also have it, havent seen his rules yet)
83887
Post by: BloodGrin
 M0ff3l wrote:*rough-ish translation of the deathwatch rules, I know german, but I don't know some of the rule names in german*
Edryc Setorax 35 points
4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 3+ (unique)
2 lightning claws
frag/krak grenades
and they shall know no fear
bulky
deepstrike
stealth
Attack from the shadows:
until the start of the second game turn, Edryx Setorax has the shrouded special rule
Winged Redemption:
Edryx Setorax can use his jump pack in the movement and the assault phase of the same turn. Additionally he can reroll failed hammer of wrath attacks.
Heroic intervention:
A unit with this special rule can reroll one or both of the dice when rolling charge distance. Aditionally he always passes a glorious intervention test.
Ortan Cassius 95 points
5 4 4 4 2 4 2 10 3+ (unique)
Cannot be taken in the same army as Chaplain Cassius
Bolt pistol
Crozius Arcanum (S+2, AP4, melee, concussive)
frag/krak grenades
iron halo (the 4++ wargear, not sure what it is called)
special ammunition
Independant character
Zealot
Garran Branatar 60 points
4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 2+ (unique)
Terminator armor
Heavy Flamer
Master crafted melta gun
Mastercrafted powerfist
And they shall know no fear
fearless ( lol)
bulky
deepstrike
relentless
Master of fire:
Gains feel no pain against flamer weapons (as defined in the warhammer 40k rules). Also when using his heavy flamer he can reroll to wound rolls. And reroll failed armor pen rolls.
Antor Delassio 35 points
4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 3+ (unique)
Hand flamer
chainsword
frag/krak grenades
And they shall know no fear
bulky
furious charge
deepstrike
Heroic intervention (same as Edryc Setorax)
Jetek Suberei 40 points
4 4 4 5 1 4 2 9 3+ (unique)
Twin linked boltgun
Power sword
frag/krak grenades
Special ammunition
Teleporter homer
Jink
split fire (i think)
and they shall know no fear
skilled rider
hammer of wrath
very bulky
relentless
Zurückfallen (falling back, No idea what this special rule is, sorry)
Born in the saddle:
Jetek Suberei adds 1 to his strength when he resolves his hammer of wrath hits.
Squad Donatus 175 points
4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 3+ (5 of them all unique)
Vael Donatus has a bolter and special ammunition
Drenn Redblade has a bolter, special ammunition and two close combat weapons
Rodricus Grytt has a Deatwatch Fragcannon
Ennox Sorrlock has a combi-melta and special ammunition
Zameon Gydrael has a plasma pistol and powersword
All have frag/krak grenades
And they shall know no fear
Counterattack (only redblade)
Precision shots (only Donatus)
Unnachbiegig (only Gydrael) -- Again, dont know what this special rule is, it would translate to doenst give up or something like that
Feel no pain 6+ (only Sorrlock)
Deathwatch frag cannon:
Frag shot: Template, S6, AP-, Assault 2 Rending
Some other shot: 24" S7, AP5, Assault 2
EDIT: have not seen a picture of the librarian yet, would love to translate it if anyone has it.
Zurückfallen = Hit and Run I believe
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Post by: Hulksmash
Around 7ppm for the fearless, 4 attack on the charge, ws 4, st4, i4, rending and assault grenades is pretty dang sweet.
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Post by: aka_mythos
Google's translates the name of the Raven Guard's special rule "Geflugelte Erlosung" as the "Poultry of Deliverance"... haha
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Post by: Rainyday
The models look great, but I have a feeling this will have the same problem Assassinorum had: Once you put the models together, they don't fit back into the game box. Looking at it purely as a board game, storage and transport are quite difficult when the game pieces don't fit back in the box they came out of.
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Post by: Red Corsair
 Hulksmash wrote:Around 7ppm for the fearless, 4 attack on the charge, ws 4, st4, i4, rending and assault grenades is pretty dang sweet.
That was my take away as well. Add the patriarch and they gain stealth and hit and run as well plus the shot at invis or even shrouded. Seems like a sweet addition.
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Post by: Warhams-77
76824
Post by: M0ff3l
Thx, I updated my post, it now has all english rules!
Kind of sad that Rodricus Grytt doesn't get a special rule while the other 4 do, the Deathwatch fragcannon is pretty sick though.
Also note that Cassius and the librarian are HQ choices, the biker is fast attack, the terminator and the 2 assault marines are elites and the squad donitus is troops.
So the formation is not the only way to take them, and potentially, when a future codex with some additional stuff comes around we have more to go on.
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Post by: Warhams-77
Via War of Sigmar
Just a confirmation for what was obvious. Deathwatch are a faction of their own, and they are part of Armies of the Imperium on the ally matrix.
Also the DW rules are on "removable pages in the center of the magazine"
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Post by: Tactical_Spam
Which WD are the DW rules going to be in again?
76824
Post by: M0ff3l
109 death watch (next week) 110 genestealer cult
76888
Post by: Tyran
Hulksmash wrote:Around 7ppm for the fearless, 4 attack on the charge, ws 4, st4, i4, rending and assault grenades is pretty dang sweet.
They could be our best melee unit, and there is so much wrong with that lol.
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Post by: Kanluwen
M0ff3l wrote: Kanluwen wrote:I am going to have SO MUCH FUN using these guys as attachments to my squads.
only cassius has independent character (librarian could also have it, havent seen his rules yet)
Have you seen the rest of them? Because I haven't.
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Post by: Warhams-77
Edit: They also specifically call it Kill Team Cassius three times in that last pic - this is not a generic DW list yet (obviously)
76824
Post by: M0ff3l
Kanluwen wrote: M0ff3l wrote: Kanluwen wrote:I am going to have SO MUCH FUN using these guys as attachments to my squads.
only cassius has independent character (librarian could also have it, havent seen his rules yet)
Have you seen the rest of them? Because I haven't.
I have seen all of them except the librarian, check on page 42 where I translated all of their rules and page 41 for pictures (in german) Warhams-77 wrote:Edit: They also specifically call it Kill Team Cassius three times in that last pic - this is not a generic DW list yet (obviously)
They have icons for FoC, cassius and the librarian are HQ, the biker is fast attack, the termi and 2 assault marines are elites and the squad is troops. So you could take an allied detachment of cassius + the squad + the terminator or something!
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Post by: Kanluwen
I just really, really, really am questioning the lack of the Blood Angel, Raven Guard, White Scar, and Salamander having the IC rule--but there may be something we're not seeing allowing them to be taken as unit upgrades.
76824
Post by: M0ff3l
Kanluwen wrote:I just really, really, really am questioning the lack of the Blood Angel, Raven Guard, White Scar, and Salamander having the IC rule--but there may be something we're not seeing allowing them to be taken as unit upgrades.
I agree, even though you can take them as an allied detachment, the 4 singleton guys that dont have IC are never worth it unless you take the formation.
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Post by: Warhams-77
M0ff3l wrote:They have icons for FoC, cassius and the librarian are HQ, the biker is fast attack, the termi and 2 assault marines are elites and the squad is troops. So you could take an allied detachment of cassius + the squad + the terminator or something!
True
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Post by: angelofvengeance
To be honest, you could just field the one specific to your Chapter as an IC or another character. I for one, think the Dark Angels guy would be excellent as a Company Master(with some tweaks) or, as is his DWO rank, Company Champion.
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Post by: kronk
A single, one-wound biker running around is as useful as a single, one-wound terminator running around, regardless of their special rules. If you can't add them to another unit or upgrade an existing unit, WTF is the point?
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Post by: Tyran
 kronk wrote:A single, one-wound biker running around is as useful as a single, one-wound terminator running around, regardless of their special rules. If you can't add them to another unit or upgrade an existing unit, WTF is the point?
Ultimate MSU?
76824
Post by: M0ff3l
kronk wrote:A single, one-wound biker running around is as useful as a single, one-wound terminator running around, regardless of their special rules. If you can't add them to another unit or upgrade an existing unit, WTF is the point?
Those 4 are (as far as we know) only good in the formation :( However I can't argue with a 270 point allied detachment of squad donatus and cassius (or the librarian, depending on which is better)
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Post by: Big Mac
 Rainyday wrote:The models look great, but I have a feeling this will have the same problem Assassinorum had: Once you put the models together, they don't fit back into the game box. Looking at it purely as a board game, storage and transport are quite difficult when the game pieces don't fit back in the box they came out of.
Why the heck would you store these wonderful models back in the boxset? I bought a small new GW zigzag case for my assassinorum figure(to prevent breakage and paint chip since they seem fragile), these would fit in as well.
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Post by: endlesswaltz123
I find it a bit weird that the terminator guy get's a heavy flamer and a meltagun but doesn't get the split fire rule, or ability to fire both in a turn, even if it's just once a game.
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Post by: Nocturnus
ShaneTB wrote: Bonespace wrote:Games Workshop wrote:.... they can be used straight in a regular Tyranids army
That answers the allies question; nice timing with the "Start Collecting!" box.
But, wait, a twist:
What's the other army?... They probably mean a detachment to a Tyranid army.
Perhaps they will be able to ally with Guard to simulate PDF. Seriously impressed with this release.
76824
Post by: M0ff3l
endlesswaltz123 wrote:I find it a bit weird that the terminator guy get's a heavy flamer and a meltagun but doesn't get the split fire rule, or ability to fire both in a turn, even if it's just once a game.
I find it weirder that his special rule isnt reroll to wound with the heavy flamer and reroll armor pen with the melta... its both on the heavy flamer :\
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Post by: angelofvengeance
endlesswaltz123 wrote:I find it a bit weird that the terminator guy get's a heavy flamer and a melta gun but doesn't get the split fire rule, or ability to fire both in a turn, even if it's just once a game.
While that would be cool, a heavy flamer can do a lot of damage to a horde of poorly equipped cultists as is. Being able to fire both in the same turn would be a little unfair to the Genestealer player.
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Post by: endlesswaltz123
 angelofvengeance wrote:endlesswaltz123 wrote:I find it a bit weird that the terminator guy get's a heavy flamer and a melta gun but doesn't get the split fire rule, or ability to fire both in a turn, even if it's just once a game.
While that would be cool, a heavy flamer can do a lot of damage to a horde of poorly equipped cultists as is. Being able to fire both in the same turn would be a little unfair to the Genestealer player.
In deathwatch game yes, I meant in 40k though. He's only one guy, with one wound with near useless armour in the current gaming climate... If he's going to be 60pts and a 1 man unit, at least give him the chance to fire both when he teleports in as he won't last very long against anything. A unit of grots has a good chance of taking him out in one turn.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
endlesswaltz123 wrote: angelofvengeance wrote:endlesswaltz123 wrote:I find it a bit weird that the terminator guy get's a heavy flamer and a melta gun but doesn't get the split fire rule, or ability to fire both in a turn, even if it's just once a game.
While that would be cool, a heavy flamer can do a lot of damage to a horde of poorly equipped cultists as is. Being able to fire both in the same turn would be a little unfair to the Genestealer player.
In deathwatch game yes, I meant in 40k though. He's only one guy, with one wound with near useless armour in the current gaming climate... If he's going to be 60pts and a 1 man unit, at least give him the chance to fire both when he teleports in as he won't last very long against anything. A unit of grots has a good chance of taking him out in one turn.
Again, bit silly because grots will get fething murdered by an AP4 template weapon. You only get one(admittedly pretty powerful) shot with a melta gun anyway. What good would that do against a mob? It would take very, very lucky dice rolls to kill the terminator with a grot gakky pistol.
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Post by: endlesswaltz123
angelofvengeance wrote:endlesswaltz123 wrote: angelofvengeance wrote:endlesswaltz123 wrote:I find it a bit weird that the terminator guy get's a heavy flamer and a melta gun but doesn't get the split fire rule, or ability to fire both in a turn, even if it's just once a game.
While that would be cool, a heavy flamer can do a lot of damage to a horde of poorly equipped cultists as is. Being able to fire both in the same turn would be a little unfair to the Genestealer player.
In deathwatch game yes, I meant in 40k though. He's only one guy, with one wound with near useless armour in the current gaming climate... If he's going to be 60pts and a 1 man unit, at least give him the chance to fire both when he teleports in as he won't last very long against anything. A unit of grots has a good chance of taking him out in one turn.
Again, bit silly because grots will get fething murdered by an AP4 template weapon. You only get one(admittedly pretty powerful) shot with a melta gun anyway. What good would that do against a mob? It would take very, very lucky dice rolls to kill the terminator with a grot gakky pistol.
Look up, split fire rule was mentioned. I wouldn't fire it at an ork mob ideally.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
MajorTom11 wrote:By the layout of the boards, they really should have just made them space-hulk compatible. Shame to miss the opportunity imho.
GW's never found an opportunity they couldn't miss, especially when it comes to leveraging IP/cross-product promotion.
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Post by: Kanluwen
M0ff3l wrote: Kanluwen wrote:I just really, really, really am questioning the lack of the Blood Angel, Raven Guard, White Scar, and Salamander having the IC rule--but there may be something we're not seeing allowing them to be taken as unit upgrades.
I agree, even though you can take them as an allied detachment, the 4 singleton guys that dont have IC are never worth it unless you take the formation.
And taking them as a formation makes them even more useless, since they lose their special abilities for their jump packs/bikes and the Terminator removes the unit's ability to run.
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Post by: TheCrusadeSmurf
To maximise efficiency, I'd say Cassius as Warlord, Lib as 2nd HQ and then have the Deathwatch Killteam.
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Post by: M0ff3l
 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:To maximise efficiency, I'd say Cassius as Warlord, Lib as 2nd HQ and then have the Deathwatch Killteam.
As what kind of formation? Unbound?
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Post by: Dryaktylus
kronk wrote:A single, one-wound biker running around is as useful as a single, one-wound terminator running around, regardless of their special rules. If you can't add them to another unit or upgrade an existing unit, WTF is the point?
Maybe we see some missions for small games in the future (like Kill Teams or the Last Chancers). Obviously these rules are not great or even good in normal 40k - but in a game against a like-minded player (toning down his codex list) or other such special mini FoCs we may see in the future they could be fun (for both sides...).
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Post by: Binabik15
I hope that the Genestealer Cult gets Killteam rules. I couldn't care less about the rules for the Killteam
Is the Heralds of Ruin list for GCs good to go for the models in the box? I don't really have a clue when it comes to Killteam, I just decided to play it soon.There doesn't seem to be a needle pistol for starters.
Can't be worse than my 7 models Nurgle Marines list (8 with chaos snail, err, hound!).
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
The Favoured Disciples: troops 17 meltabombs (12 models) .
Can we just write points costs?
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Post by: Vermis
beast_gts wrote:
I think I'm going to do something based off one of these:
Then you have to get and convert up at least... 1 2 3 4... seven familiars.
Yodhrin wrote:Seriously, are you guys living in some weird alternate reality or something? Because there are more people complaining about "haters" on this one page than there are people actually hating on this release in the entire thread...
In the local idiom; get a haud o' yersels, ya bams.
That.
People are astounded by the 'hate', but I'm astounded by how they care so much about it. Folk are allowed to have different opinions, and express them. One good release doesn't mean they can't pick out little, personal could-have-beens; or mean they can't point out that 11 marines in a £100 box (if you just want thuper-duper marines for 40K) is still hardly ideal; or make 40K any better.
Does it taint your enjoyment of the product that much? If it does, maybe it's not all the naysayer's fault.
gorgon wrote:Well...*I* say that I'm going to get tanks, because this is 7th edition and there isn't much that can stop me from doing so.
That too.  For a nice wee Hispano Suiza MC-36, I'm thinking low-tech IFV, wheeled.
Tyran wrote:I'm still trying to understand how the hell a Genestealer Cult has access to a Bonesword.
Maybe it's a carved femur from a grox, or a human, rather than an overly-anthropomorphised magically-grown duelling weapon that matters more for it's USRs than than what it 'actually' is.
Or you can say in your own head that it's a fancy ceramic blade, like out of that there Nausicaa thing, or even, wait for it, metal. You can do that, y'know. No, really!
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Post by: Rainyday
 Big Mac wrote: Rainyday wrote:The models look great, but I have a feeling this will have the same problem Assassinorum had: Once you put the models together, they don't fit back into the game box. Looking at it purely as a board game, storage and transport are quite difficult when the game pieces don't fit back in the box they came out of.
Why the heck would you store these wonderful models back in the boxset? I bought a small new GW zigzag case for my assassinorum figure(to prevent breakage and paint chip since they seem fragile), these would fit in as well.
I was speaking about it purely as a board game. Imagine if there wasn't a compatible miniatures game you were going to use the models for. If it were any other board game, players would cry foul if they had to buy extra boxes to transport their game around. If you bought a copy of Risk, or even a euro game like Carcasonne, and all the little plastic soldiers/meeple couldn't be put back into the box so you could haul it around, you wouldn't be happy.
For assassinorum, I ended up switching the plastic assassins for my old metal ones and installed a magnet in between the chaos lord's legs and body just so I could fit them into a reasonably-sized second box to take to board game club meetings.
 H.B.M.C. wrote: MajorTom11 wrote:By the layout of the boards, they really should have just made them space-hulk compatible. Shame to miss the opportunity imho.
GW's never found an opportunity they couldn't miss, especially when it comes to leveraging IP/cross-product promotion.
I don't think it would take much to make the genestealers compatible with Assassinorum either, but I doubt they will.
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Post by: Vermis
Big Mac wrote:
Why the heck would you store these wonderful models back in the boxset? I bought a small new GW zigzag case
Some might see that as a good enough reason, TBH.
Rainyday wrote:
I was speaking about it purely as a board game. Imagine if there wasn't a compatible miniatures game you were going to use the models for. If it were any other board game, players would cry foul if they had to buy extra boxes to transport their game around.
Why you gotta a be a hater?
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Post by: the_Armyman
Wait, I don't get it. I mentioned that I thought this was a rather transparent cash grab by GW to create yet another boardgame masquerading as a 40K release, I get called a pathetic hater, shouted down, and generally seen as the bad guy of the thread. Then several people come in here and decry the 40K rules as being lackluster, poorly constructed, and a missed opportunity, and they're greeted with silence. Where's the outrage, guys? Thse guys are totally urinating all over your parade. Let's get 'em!
Frankly, it's no real surprise these rules are terribad. It's not like there's a lot of precedent for inspired writing from GW. Just buy your boxed sets, and shut up about the rules. This is a boardgame, not a 40K release, right?
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Post by: kronk
 the_Armyman wrote:Wait, I don't get it. I mentioned that I thought this was a rather transparent cash grab by GW to create yet another boardgame masquerading as a 40K release, I get called a pathetic hater, shouted down, and generally seen as the bad guy of the thread. Then several people come in here and decry the 40K rules as being lackluster, poorly constructed, and a missed opportunity, and they're greeted with silence. Where's the outrage, guys? Thse guys are totally urinating all over your parade. Let's get 'em!
Frankly, it's no real surprise these rules are terribad. It's not like there's a lot of precedent for inspired writing from GW. Just buy your boxed sets, and shut up about the rules. This is a boardgame, not a 40K release, right?
You come across as a bitter, angry person in your posts. The kind I avoid at parties and pubs.
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Post by: Vermis
the_Armyman wrote:Wait, I don't get it. I mentioned that I thought this was a rather transparent cash grab by GW to create yet another boardgame masquerading as a 40K release, I get called a pathetic hater, shouted down, and generally seen as the bad guy of the thread. Then several people come in here and decry the 40K rules as being lackluster, poorly constructed, and a missed opportunity, and they're greeted with silence. Where's the outrage, guys?
I think they got quickly schooled that the 'stop bullying GW' kneejerk was even less useful than usual, here.
kronk wrote:
You come across as a bitter, angry person in your posts. The kind I avoid at parties and pubs.
Cuts both ways, that does.
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Post by: kronk
Rainyday wrote: Big Mac wrote: Rainyday wrote:The models look great, but I have a feeling this will have the same problem Assassinorum had: Once you put the models together, they don't fit back into the game box. Looking at it purely as a board game, storage and transport are quite difficult when the game pieces don't fit back in the box they came out of.
Why the heck would you store these wonderful models back in the boxset? I bought a small new GW zigzag case for my assassinorum figure(to prevent breakage and paint chip since they seem fragile), these would fit in as well.
I was speaking about it purely as a board game. Imagine if there wasn't a compatible miniatures game you were going to use the models for. If it were any other board game, players would cry foul if they had to buy extra boxes to transport their game around. If you bought a copy of Risk, or even a euro game like Carcasonne, and all the little plastic soldiers/meeple couldn't be put back into the box so you could haul it around, you wouldn't be happy.
For assassinorum, I ended up switching the plastic assassins for my old metal ones and installed a magnet in between the chaos lord's legs and body just so I could fit them into a reasonably-sized second box to take to board game club meetings.
Battle Foam made a foam tray insert that fit inside the game box for Dreadfleet game that held the dice, models, and stuff. Their site is work blocked for me, but you might drop them an email and ask if they are doing one for Execution Force and/or Deathwatch.
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Post by: Rainyday
kronk wrote:
Battle Foam made a foam tray insert that fit inside the game box for Dreadfleet game that held the dice, models, and stuff. Their site is work blocked for me, but you might drop them an email and ask if they are doing one for Execution Force and/or Deathwatch.
They literally can't. The box is so slim, that there's no way for the chaos lord and several of the assassins to fit in, even with all the other components removed. The models are dynamic, gorgeous, and very 3-dimensional, but that works against them in this situation.
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Post by: kronk
Ah. I see.
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Post by: dan2026
My guess GS Cult will get;
3 HQs, Patriarch, Magos and Primus
2 Troops, 1st/2nd gens and 3rd/4th gens.
2 Elites, Aberants and Purestrains
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Post by: angelofvengeance
 dan2026 wrote:My guess GS Cult will get;
3 HQs, Patriarch, Magos and Primus
2 Troops, 1st/2nd gens and 3rd/4th gens.
2 Elites, Aberants and Purestrains
I think Primus will probably be a unit leader. Can't see any obvious unit leader models in 1st/2nd gen and 3rd/4th gen stuff.
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Post by: harkequin
I'm a little disappointed with the raven guard and BA guys.
A RG vanguard vet with the same loadout costs 32 points.
They are identical except that edryc has stealth, is on his own, and costs 3 points more.
For the BA he costs 8 pts more than an assault sergean with the same loadout, and gets "heroic intervention" and 1 more attack with a chainsword.
They're probably fine for smaller games, but I kinda expected a bit more bang for your buck. Even if they had IC then it might be cool, could give a unit +3 to it's cover save on T1, by adding in edryc.
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Post by: Dryaktylus
Rainyday wrote:
I was speaking about it purely as a board game. Imagine if there wasn't a compatible miniatures game you were going to use the models for. If it were any other board game, players would cry foul if they had to buy extra boxes to transport their game around. If you bought a copy of Risk, or even a euro game like Carcasonne, and all the little plastic soldiers/meeple couldn't be put back into the box so you could haul it around, you wouldn't be happy.
Well, that's a problem with most boardgames that contain larger multi-piece models. Even if they're snap-fit the desire to put them back to pieces stops once you painted them.
I guess if you don't want to buy another box you just have to wrap the models, put them in the box and use a simple bag for the tiles, counters and cards.
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Post by: alleus
Hmm, I don't know.. I like that the DW got a formation for 40k, but all those super specialised troopers, all in the same unit and can't shoot at their own targets? Seems like a huge waste of so many weapons. And they all have one wound except for Crassius and T4 except the biker? So one Battle Cannon blast over these guys and they're basicly all dead. 535 points gone.
I expected them to be individual units that come in one formation, and they could run around doing whatever, all with Stealth and multiple wounds. Sort of like Kill Team rules. How exactly are these going to be used? I can't really image a good use for them to be honest.
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Post by: M0ff3l
 alleus wrote:Hmm, I don't know.. I like that the DW got a formation for 40k, but all those super specialised troopers, all in the same unit and can't shoot at their own targets? Seems like a huge waste of so many weapons. And they all have one wound except for Crassius and T4 except the biker? So one Battle Cannon blast over these guys and they're basicly all dead. 535 points gone.
I expected them to be individual units that come in one formation, and they could run around doing whatever, all with Stealth and multiple wounds. Sort of like Kill Team rules. How exactly are these going to be used? I can't really image a good use for them to be honest.
you can take cassius + squad donatus as a allied detachment for 270 points. That's the best use i see for them right now (librarian could be better than cassius, dont know his rules yet)
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Post by: nekooni
the_Armyman wrote:Wait, I don't get it. I mentioned that I thought this was a rather transparent cash grab by GW to create yet another boardgame masquerading as a 40K release, I get called a pathetic hater, shouted down, and generally seen as the bad guy of the thread. Then several people come in here and decry the 40K rules as being lackluster, poorly constructed, and a missed opportunity, and they're greeted with silence. Where's the outrage, guys? Thse guys are totally urinating all over your parade. Let's get 'em!
Frankly, it's no real surprise these rules are terribad. It's not like there's a lot of precedent for inspired writing from GW. Just buy your boxed sets, and shut up about the rules. This is a boardgame, not a 40K release, right?
The rules for the 40k Killteam are pretty lackluster, granted. But me disliking the Killteam rules doesn't mean I'm no longer allowed to like the models provided in the box. Nor am I forced to "defend" the boring 40k rules provided just because I like the models. The world isn't just black and white.
The models themself are still pretty sweet, and the price - IMHO - is fine considering it's both a boardgame and a bunch of VERY good miniatures usable in multiple other game systems, including one where the rules to use them will be provided for free. If you're choosing to limit yourself to seeing it purely as "the boardgame" that's your choice. It's a valid opinion, but most people on a wargaming - dare I say 40k centric - board WILL see the opportunities outside of the pure boardgame.
Did the box loose somewhat in percieved value to me due to the lackluster rules? Sure. Is it enough to discourage me from buying the set? Nope. Still going to pick it up for the models, and I'll probably get a few games of DW:Overkill out of it, too. Looks fine to me for the price (I expect about 100 euro at online resellers)
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Post by: the_Armyman
kronk wrote:
You come across as a bitter, angry person in your posts. The kind I avoid at parties and pubs.
And yet, dripping with bitterness and anger, I've somehow managed to not insult anyone. Strange. As I've said two times, now, I love the miniatures, but I hate the execution here. They could have presented this boardgame as a standalone campaign box, and it would have sold at the $165 pricepoint.
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Post by: Imateria
the_Armyman wrote:Wait, I don't get it. I mentioned that I thought this was a rather transparent cash grab by GW to create yet another boardgame masquerading as a 40K release, I get called a pathetic hater, shouted down, and generally seen as the bad guy of the thread. Then several people come in here and decry the 40K rules as being lackluster, poorly constructed, and a missed opportunity, and they're greeted with silence. Where's the outrage, guys? Thse guys are totally urinating all over your parade. Let's get 'em!
Frankly, it's no real surprise these rules are terribad. It's not like there's a lot of precedent for inspired writing from GW. Just buy your boxed sets, and shut up about the rules. This is a boardgame, not a 40K release, right?
Because most of the excitment was for the Cultists anyway, and their rules are starting to look pretty decent. They also make up 4/5ths of the model count.
I also wander what people were expecting of these guys, I mean there effectively a group of Marine Sgts seconded to the Deathwatch, really not enough reason to make them all the equal of Lysander, Draigo or Dante adn they do have some interesting rules.
As for the board game/ 40k thing, it's both and their have been enough people in here saying they're buying it for the board game aspect to make that a reasonable prospect. I mean is it really such a bad thing to make it duel purpose?
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Post by: ImAGeek
the_Armyman wrote: kronk wrote:
You come across as a bitter, angry person in your posts. The kind I avoid at parties and pubs.
And yet, dripping with bitterness and anger, I've somehow managed to not insult anyone. Strange. As I've said two times, now, I love the miniatures, but I hate the execution here. They could have presented this boardgame as a standalone campaign box, and it would have sold at the $165 pricepoint.
Isn't it $165 anyway? What's the difference? You can use them in 40k either way, and this way you get a board game out of it too.
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Post by: BloodGrin
Some of these reactions are damned embarrassing.
This is a boardgame first, 40k models second.
The rules are not a missed opportunity, they are pretty much the same as the rules for Stormclaw and everything else was.
Krom sucked, his units sucked.
When (IF) they release the stand alone release people will get what they want.
Instead people did what they always do, they set themselves up with huge expectations and now are all salty when things are good but not living up to their Sugar Plum Faerie dreams,
We are getting Deathwatch AND Genestealer Cult in the same week brought back.
And people are squabbling over petty crap.
Embarrassing.
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Post by: kronk
the_Armyman wrote: kronk wrote: You come across as a bitter, angry person in your posts. The kind I avoid at parties and pubs.
And yet, dripping with bitterness and anger, I've somehow managed to not insult anyone. Strange. As I've said two times, now, I love the miniatures, but I hate the execution here. They could have presented this boardgame as a standalone campaign box, and it would have sold at the $165 pricepoint.
But it's both. There will be rules for using the models in 40k for those that don't want a board game and there is a board game for those that don't play 40k and both for people that want both. Just like Betrayal at Calth.
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Post by: M0ff3l
the_Armyman wrote: kronk wrote:
You come across as a bitter, angry person in your posts. The kind I avoid at parties and pubs.
And yet, dripping with bitterness and anger, I've somehow managed to not insult anyone. Strange. As I've said two times, now, I love the miniatures, but I hate the execution here. They could have presented this boardgame as a standalone campaign box, and it would have sold at the $165 pricepoint.
So you're mad that you're getting some cardboard and dice + a fun little board game to play when you're bored extra for your 165$? Or does it remind you that you have no friends to play said board game with? Must suck to be you, well at least you can try to ruin the fun for everyone else
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Post by: aracersss
Plenty of those leaked rules are half wrong huehuehue ^^
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Post by: the_Armyman
Exactly 5 people are buying this as a boardgame. I took a worldwide survey, and those were the numbers I got. The other 45,329 people are purchasing this for 40K. 40K. The game that makes all these other experiments like AOS and boutique boardgames possible. Wouldn't you prefer for $165, that this boxed set contained rules for 40K instead of some foreign cardstock filler? A 48 page campaign booklet with the full rules included (not another $8 and two issues of WD over 2 weeks)?
If I seem angry, it's because people don't seem to get this. Except for the 5 people I've already mentioned (all of whom will chime in on this thread and let me know how wrong I am), this is a 40K release. A 40K release that a lot of you seem okay to believe is a boardgame because you're paying for cardboard tiles and 3 pages of game rules.
Space Hulk was a boardgame. A good one, with game pieces that could be used in 40K. This is a sham.
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Post by: gorgon
kronk wrote:You come across as a bitter, angry person in your posts. The kind I avoid at parties and pubs.
You must go to different kind of parties than me.
I think I'd be a BIG HIT if I could tell people that this one time on a toy soldier message board that there were these really cool figures that everyone liked but I said whoa everyone these guys are expensive and then they said no they're not and I say they are too and what's more I don't know what they're for and the company is dumb but people still didn't like that until later when some people weren't as happy about everything regarding the really cool figures and that vindicated me but not really.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
the_Armyman wrote:A 40K release that a lot of you seem okay to believe is a boardgame because you're paying for cardboard tiles and 3 pages of game rules.
No, I believe it is a board game because it is a board game.
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Post by: M0ff3l
the_Armyman wrote:Exactly 5 people are buying this as a boardgame. I took a worldwide survey, and those were the numbers I got. The other 45,329 people are purchasing this for 40K. 40K. The game that makes all these other experiments like AOS and boutique boardgames possible. Wouldn't you prefer for $165, that this boxed set contained rules for 40K instead of some foreign cardstock filler? A 48 page campaign booklet with the full rules included (not another $8 and two issues of WD over 2 weeks)?
If I seem angry, it's because people don't seem to get this. Except for the 5 people I've already mentioned (all of whom will chime in on this thread and let me know how wrong I am), this is a 40K release. A 40K release that a lot of you seem okay to believe is a boardgame because you're paying for cardboard tiles and 3 pages of game rules.
Space Hulk was a boardgame. A good one, with game pieces that could be used in 40K. This is a sham.
The rules will be available for free from the GW site... learn to read, or at least take the time to read up on something before spewing gak about it. Automatically Appended Next Post:
How so? And which ones?
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Post by: ImAGeek
the_Armyman wrote:Exactly 5 people are buying this as a boardgame. I took a worldwide survey, and those were the numbers I got. The other 45,329 people are purchasing this for 40K. 40K. The game that makes all these other experiments like AOS and boutique boardgames possible. Wouldn't you prefer for $165, that this boxed set contained rules for 40K instead of some foreign cardstock filler? A 48 page campaign booklet with the full rules included (not another $8 and two issues of WD over 2 weeks)?
If I seem angry, it's because people don't seem to get this. Except for the 5 people I've already mentioned (all of whom will chime in on this thread and let me know how wrong I am), this is a 40K release. A 40K release that a lot of you seem okay to believe is a boardgame because you're paying for cardboard tiles and 3 pages of game rules.
Space Hulk was a boardgame. A good one, with game pieces that could be used in 40K. This is a sham.
The 40k rules are also gonna be free on the website. And there are issues with using the Space Hulk models in 40k (they don't fit on bases very easily for example).
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Post by: kronk
the_Armyman wrote:Exactly 5 people are buying this as a boardgame. I took a worldwide survey, and those were the numbers I got. The other 45,329 people are purchasing this for 40K. 40K. The game that makes all these other experiments like AOS and boutique boardgames possible. Wouldn't you prefer for $165, that this boxed set contained rules for 40K instead of some foreign cardstock filler? A 48 page campaign booklet with the full rules included (not another $8 and two issues of WD over 2 weeks)? If I seem angry, it's because people don't seem to get this. Except for the 5 people I've already mentioned (all of whom will chime in on this thread and let me know how wrong I am), this is a 40K release. A 40K release that a lot of you seem okay to believe is a boardgame because you're paying for cardboard tiles and 3 pages of game rules. Space Hulk was a boardgame. A good one, with game pieces that could be used in 40K. This is a sham.
I'll repeat myself, since YOU don't seem to get it. But it's both. There will be rules for using the models in 40k for those that don't want a board game and there is a board game for those that don't play 40k and both for people that want both. Just like Betrayal at Calth. As for me, I might snag the Imperial Fist guy off of ebay and stick him in a tactical squad as heavy bolter guy.
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Post by: Bottle
Tiles look awesome close up! Looks like more could be connected to make a bigger board too. I plan to buy extra tiles if the game proves good ;-)
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Post by: angelofvengeance
I don't know if you've got Space Hulk tiles Bottle, it looks like you could certainly use them for this.
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Post by: the_Armyman
gorgon wrote: kronk wrote:You come across as a bitter, angry person in your posts. The kind I avoid at parties and pubs.
You must go to different kind of parties than me.
I think I'd be a BIG HIT if I could tell people that this one time on a toy soldier message board that there were these really cool figures that everyone liked but I said whoa everyone these guys are expensive and then they said no they're not and I say they are too and what's more I don't know what they're for and the company is dumb but people still didn't like that until later when some people weren't as happy about everything regarding the really cool figures and that vindicated me but not really.
Right, more insults. Rather than have the maturity to ignore my comments if you don't like them, we need to belittle. I can guarantee that if I had made some of the comments that others have made in this thread, I would have gotten my polite warning from a mod PM by now.
As for the takeaway on my comments: this has nothing to do with price. If that's the message you're getting, then I really can't help you understand things more clearly.
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Post by: Yodhrin
the_Armyman wrote: gorgon wrote: kronk wrote:You come across as a bitter, angry person in your posts. The kind I avoid at parties and pubs.
You must go to different kind of parties than me.
I think I'd be a BIG HIT if I could tell people that this one time on a toy soldier message board that there were these really cool figures that everyone liked but I said whoa everyone these guys are expensive and then they said no they're not and I say they are too and what's more I don't know what they're for and the company is dumb but people still didn't like that until later when some people weren't as happy about everything regarding the really cool figures and that vindicated me but not really.
Right, more insults. Rather than have the maturity to ignore my comments if you don't like them, we need to belittle. I can guarantee that if I had made some of the comments that others have made in this thread, I would have gotten my polite warning from a mod PM by now.
As for the takeaway on my comments: this has nothing to do with price. If that's the message you're getting, then I really can't help you understand things more clearly.
It was about price a few pages ago. You're absolutely right though; nobody has any idea what you're on about. Now, you could assume as you've evidently chosen to that's because literally everybody else is just too thick to grasp your masterful logic, or...
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Post by: Bottle
angelofvengeance wrote:I don't know if you've got Space Hulk tiles Bottle, it looks like you could certainly use them for this.
Unfortunately, I never got Space Hulk (maybe next time around!), but these tiles still look great, especially if there is potential to grow the board even bigger.
And to fall into the conversation of this thread - there is a demographic of non- 40k player that this boardgame appeals to, and that's people like me - an ex- 40k player who would love to get back into it but is put off by the total cost of the rules and the cost of putting together a standard pick up game size army.
Here I get a full set, with beautiful miniatures from a super cool faction ( GS Cult) - I get tiles and rules for a game to play out the box - as the Genestealer cult are "faceless" the game feels like a replayable dungeon crawler (like Space Hulk) with room for expansion. Lastly, as I still play Necromunda the Genestealer cult is perfect, but again, the tiles will make for some great scenarios too using the Necromunda/second edition rules!
Cannot wait to swoop in and pick up more tiles for a bargain price hopefully ;-)
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Post by: Vorian
There are plenty of people who will get this because it's a board game - me included.
Please stop the groundhog day conversation about it now :(
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Plus plenty of us who will just be buying it to own and (plan to) paint the minis......
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Post by: r_squared
..
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
The tiles... hmm... there are 8 of them, they don't interlock, but they appear to make a 2x4 board, which is an odd shape.
And there are no squares on them, so you have to measure everything, which I think is a bad idea for a game like this.
So yeah, they could be good, but better if you have 16 of them to make a 4x4 board.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Looks like there may be "zones" of grating that act like squares.
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Post by: M0ff3l
rules for Jensus Natorian: Jensus Natorian 95 points 5 4 4 1 2 4 2 10 3+ Bolt pistol Force Sword Frag/Krak grenades Special Ammo Psychic hood ( I think, its called Psimatrix in german) And they shall know no fear Psyker ( ML 2, Biomancy only) Independent Character He and Cassius both have special ammunition on their bolt pistols: Dragonfire: 12", S4, AP5, pistol, ignores cover Hellfire: 12", S1, AP5, pistol, poison (2+) Kraken: 15", S4, AP4, pistol Vengeance: 6", S4, AP3, pistol, gets hot! (thx Kanluwen) (NOTE: could be 9", its super blury) EDIT: source
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
They just seem oddly designed. Lots of corridor grating and tiny rooms that don't appear to serve any purpose. The rooms in Space Hulk all appeared to serve some sort of ship function. These don't.
I did see what looked like a Patriarch throne room, so that's nice.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Gets Hot.
Special Issue Ammunition is in the Space Marine Codex. The last one is "Vengeance" rounds.
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Post by: Tyran
H.B.M.C. wrote:They just seem oddly designed. Lots of corridor grating and tiny rooms that don't appear to serve any purpose. The rooms in Space Hulk all appeared to serve some sort of ship function. These don't.
I did see what looked like a Patriarch throne room, so that's nice.
Well, this isn't a ship, it is a mine turned Genestealer house.
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Post by: ecurtz
H.B.M.C. wrote:The tiles... hmm... there are 8 of them, they don't interlock, but they appear to make a 2x4 board, which is an odd shape.
And there are no squares on them, so you have to measure everything, which I think is a bad idea for a game like this.
So yeah, they could be good, but better if you have 16 of them to make a 4x4 board.
They have those rectangular spaces instead of squares so they can include the bike. I guess it taking two spaces was more confusing than limiting themselves to really strangely shaped board sections?
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Post by: Thebiggesthat
the_Armyman wrote: gorgon wrote: kronk wrote:You come across as a bitter, angry person in your posts. The kind I avoid at parties and pubs.
You must go to different kind of parties than me.
I think I'd be a BIG HIT if I could tell people that this one time on a toy soldier message board that there were these really cool figures that everyone liked but I said whoa everyone these guys are expensive and then they said no they're not and I say they are too and what's more I don't know what they're for and the company is dumb but people still didn't like that until later when some people weren't as happy about everything regarding the really cool figures and that vindicated me but not really.
Right, more insults. Rather than have the maturity to ignore my comments if you don't like them, we need to belittle. I can guarantee that if I had made some of the comments that others have made in this thread, I would have gotten my polite warning from a mod PM by now.
As for the takeaway on my comments: this has nothing to do with price. If that's the message you're getting, then I really can't help you understand things more clearly.
You really are an over aggressive little flower. I'm another that is buying this as a boardgame. The minis are cool, and I don't play 40k as it's full of (from my local meta) people only taking optimised lists that suck the fun out of a game, or angry children that don't understand this hobby is meant to be fun.
Also, stop with the flame bait victim act, it's rather pathetic.
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Post by: M0ff3l
Kanluwen wrote:Gets Hot.
Special Issue Ammunition is in the Space Marine Codex. The last one is "Vengeance" rounds.
thanks, updated, also I made a typo for his initiative, its 4, not 1...
He seems better than cassius for the points, 3 powers from biomancy + force is pretty nice.
Jensus Natorian + Squad Donatus as 270 point allies is gonna be pretty decent I think!
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Post by: angelofvengeance
What are Dragonfire rounds? Just incendiaries?
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Post by: Bottle
Yes, it looks like lots was done to accommodate the bike.
Almost makes you wonder why they didn't, y'know, not include a bike lol.
Still, the tiles look cool to me. I would have preferred Space Hulk style modular corridor sections, but with the minitures alone being woth £100 in my eyes, these tiles look like a great addition too.
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Post by: M0ff3l
More like shredder rounds, they destroy/penetrate cover. Hellfire rounds would be more like incendiaries I think.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Fluffwise, Dragonfire Bolts are Boltgun rounds that are hollow shells filled with superheated gas that explodes and saturate foes concealed in cover.
Kraken Bolts are bolts with an adamantine core and improved propellant to penetrate thick hides, even at extreme range.
Hellfire Rounds douse their targets in voracious acids.
Vengeance Rounds employ unstable flux core technology that makes them hazardous to use but extremely effective against armoured targets(there was a fluff blurb at one point about them being designed for killing Traitor Astartes).
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Post by: nekooni
the_Armyman wrote:
As for the takeaway on my comments: this has nothing to do with price. If that's the message you're getting, then I really can't help you understand things more clearly.
I honestly assumed you think the value of the product isn't sufficient to you. From what you just said I believe instead you simply want a different product?
Instead of a " 40k themed board game" you basically want a miniature box set of the same (model) content plus a campaign book " DW vs GSC", something like the Montka or Kauyon campaign books, as a bundle for the same price as DW:Overkill and your disappointment stems from the fact that it isn't that but just a board game with a few pages of lackluster (read: not powerful and not especially interesting) rules for 40k, right?
I'd say that sure, for a pure 40k player that would have been the better deal - but just because something could be even better doesn't mean that if it's less than perfect it's immediately classified as garbage or a "transparent cashgrab".
If you like the miniatures and think the price for THEM alone is OK - why not simply be happy about that? Yes, you can always ask for more, but isn't the box - in this case - a pretty sweet thing already?
You're coming off as one of those people that simply can't stand it if it's not EXACTLY as they wanted and the execution has to be PERFECT. When WoW finally announced Dual-Specs I thought "I bet people will find a way to complain about" and there they were - threads saying "it's stupid, I need 4 specs! No, I need 8 specs! Why can't I switch in combat? Blizzard sucks!" instead of appreciating the feature they just gained.
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Post by: Kanluwen
 Bottle wrote:Yes, it looks like lots was done to accommodate the bike.
Almost makes you wonder why they didn't, y'know, not include a bike lol.
Because a White Scar without a Bike would be like a Raven Guard without a Jump Pack?
Each of them has something "signature" about them. It makes them something that will be desired even by those with no interest in the game, as you can likely swap out the Deathwatch shoulder pad for a plain old one and still have a gorgeous model--especially as plastic stand-ins for existing Finecast characters(looking at you, Not-Shrike model! I mean really, he even has the little grenade dispenser on his jump pack!).
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Post by: Alpharius
GENERAL IN THREAD WARNING TIME!
There are very few rules here - but we must insist that everyone follow them.
After all, this what everyone agreed to do when they signed up here.
RULE #1 - STAY POLITE.
RULE #2 - STAY ON TOPIC.
IF certain topics or certain users cause you to be unable to follow the rules, do not post!
WARNINGS and SUSPENSIONS are the next steps!
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Post by: M0ff3l
Kanluwen wrote: Bottle wrote:Yes, it looks like lots was done to accommodate the bike.
Almost makes you wonder why they didn't, y'know, not include a bike lol.
Because a White Scar without a Bike would be like a Raven Guard without a Jump Pack?
Each of them has something "signature" about them. It makes them something that will be desired even by those with no interest in the game, as you can likely swap out the Deathwatch shoulder pad for a plain old one and still have a gorgeous model--especially as plastic stand-ins for existing Finecast characters(looking at you, Not-Shrike model! I mean really, he even has the little grenade dispenser on his jump pack!).
Don't even have to remove it, some Deathwatch members keep their silver shoulder pad and arm and just paint their armor back to their chapters color when they return to their chapter.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Was going to say, Hellfire rounds were developed to tackle Tyranids. Hadn't heard of Dragonfire until now. Automatically Appended Next Post: M0ff3l wrote:Don't even have to remove it, some Deathwatch members keep their silver shoulder pad and arm and just paint their armor back to their chapters color when they return to their chapter.
Must be nice for guys in black armour. Only need to repaint the pauldron and the arm lol.
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Post by: aka_mythos
Kanluwen wrote: Bottle wrote:Yes, it looks like lots was done to accommodate the bike.
Almost makes you wonder why they didn't, y'know, not include a bike lol.
Because a White Scar without a Bike would be like a Raven Guard without a Jump Pack?
Each of them has something "signature" about them. It makes them something that will be desired even by those with no interest in the game, as you can likely swap out the Deathwatch shoulder pad for a plain old one and still have a gorgeous model--especially as plastic stand-ins for existing Finecast characters(looking at you, Not-Shrike model! I mean really, he even has the little grenade dispenser on his jump pack!).
Ultimately they went with these characters because they come from the fiction, so it representational. That's the danger of them being to fixated on stereotyping of Chapters... Raven Guard from their fluff could just as easily be a Scout with a stalker pattern bolter. I'm sure GW could have come up with something for White Scars' character if they thought about.
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Post by: Bottle
Kanluwen wrote: Bottle wrote:Yes, it looks like lots was done to accommodate the bike.
Almost makes you wonder why they didn't, y'know, not include a bike lol.
Because a White Scar without a Bike would be like a Raven Guard without a Jump Pack?
Each of them has something "signature" about them. It makes them something that will be desired even by those with no interest in the game, as you can likely swap out the Deathwatch shoulder pad for a plain old one and still have a gorgeous model--especially as plastic stand-ins for existing Finecast characters(looking at you, Not-Shrike model! I mean really, he even has the little grenade dispenser on his jump pack!).
Sure, it's a nice model - and a white scar is born in the saddle of a bike, but there are 999 other chapters to choose from when selecting a Deathwatch team to infiltrate a crampt mine network. Still, this isn't a big complaint at all - I love the set and am so excited to get it. :-)
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Post by: M0ff3l
angelofvengeance wrote:Was going to say, Hellfire rounds were developed to tackle Tyranids. Hadn't heard of Dragonfire until now. Automatically Appended Next Post: M0ff3l wrote:Don't even have to remove it, some Deathwatch members keep their silver shoulder pad and arm and just paint their armor back to their chapters color when they return to their chapter.
Must be nice for guys in black armour. Only need to repaint the pauldron and the arm lol.
They leave the arm silver, im sorry I worded that poorly. An ultramarine for example paints everything from black to blue but leaves the silver on his left arm and shoulder pad.
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Post by: gorgon
@Alpharius -- looks like your source was dead on about the quality of the miniatures.
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Post by: Kanluwen
 aka_mythos wrote: Kanluwen wrote: Bottle wrote:Yes, it looks like lots was done to accommodate the bike.
Almost makes you wonder why they didn't, y'know, not include a bike lol.
Because a White Scar without a Bike would be like a Raven Guard without a Jump Pack?
Each of them has something "signature" about them. It makes them something that will be desired even by those with no interest in the game, as you can likely swap out the Deathwatch shoulder pad for a plain old one and still have a gorgeous model--especially as plastic stand-ins for existing Finecast characters(looking at you, Not-Shrike model! I mean really, he even has the little grenade dispenser on his jump pack!).
Ultimately they went with these characters because they come from the fiction, so it representational.
That's actually something I'm not sure about. Given the lead time on a game like this, I think they might have had the game finished before the little short stories.
That's the danger of them being to fixated on stereotyping of Chapters... Raven Guard from their fluff could just as easily be a Scout with a stalker pattern bolter. I'm sure GW could have come up with something for White Scars' character if they thought about.
Amusingly enough, based upon what we got with Mont'ka? It probably would have been a Scout as well! Both of their Detachments placed a rather large emphasis on Scouts.
What you say is highly true though. It's why I've really been intrigued by the idea of these $33 Codices. That's the perfect price point for breaking each Chapter out into a Codex of its own, maybe fluffing up some new characters even!
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Deathwatch Frag Cannon: Because Blood Angels can't have nice things.
I am seriously looking at using the Librarian and Squad Donatus as an Allied Detachment. Looks very nice.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Says the army that for an edition or two could do Deathwing better than Deathwing. 
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Post by: M0ff3l
 casvalremdeikun wrote:Deathwatch Frag Cannon: Because Blood Angels can't have nice things.
I am seriously looking at using the Librarian and Squad Donatus as an Allied Detachment. Looks very nice.
Or we will get the same frag cannon when our dex updates? (a man can dream right)
And yeah completely agree, that allied detachment is looking nice. I might add the terminator, deepstrike him somewhere, for 60 points he could do some damage maybe..
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Post by: Accolade
Bottle wrote:Yes, it looks like lots was done to accommodate the bike.
Almost makes you wonder why they didn't, y'know, not include a bike lol.
But then we wouldn't be able to identify that he's a White Scar!
EDIT: oh, I see we talked about this a little already, whoops, this thread moves fast! While I understand the goal of showing some more diversity of the Deathwatch by including the terminator/bike/jump pack, I think they would have been much more cohesive (especially in 40k!) as all being the same type of unit. But perhaps that would have been too boring. I don't know, but what I DO know is it seems hella silly to have that guy riding his bike down those tight corridors.
I assume the Blood Angel dies the minute he turns on that jet pack and smashes his head into the ceiling.
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Post by: harkequin
 Accolade wrote: Bottle wrote:Yes, it looks like lots was done to accommodate the bike.
Almost makes you wonder why they didn't, y'know, not include a bike lol.
But then we wouldn't be able to identify that he's a White Scar!
Interesting fact, White scars do not in fact have functional legs, that is their chapters dark gene-seed mutation. Scouts have just yet to succumb to it.
You ever seen a white scar walk anywhere?
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Post by: Accolade
harkequin wrote: Accolade wrote: Bottle wrote:Yes, it looks like lots was done to accommodate the bike.
Almost makes you wonder why they didn't, y'know, not include a bike lol.
But then we wouldn't be able to identify that he's a White Scar!
Interesting fact, White scars do not in fact have functional legs, that is their chapters dark gene-seed mutation. Scouts have just yet to succumb to it.
You ever seen a white scar walk anywhere?
Those damn geneseeds are so finicky.
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Post by: M0ff3l
Maybe the reason they didn't give his sweet eagle any rules is because that poor bird cant fly in the mines... OR its just his canary in the coal mine bird D:
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Post by: nekooni
harkequin wrote: Accolade wrote: Bottle wrote:Yes, it looks like lots was done to accommodate the bike.
Almost makes you wonder why they didn't, y'know, not include a bike lol.
But then we wouldn't be able to identify that he's a White Scar!
Interesting fact, White scars do not in fact have functional legs, that is their chapters dark gene-seed mutation. Scouts have just yet to succumb to it.
You ever seen a white scar walk anywhere?
That would explain why Kor'sarro Khan is so special - he's the one guy who can walk, as shown by him being only available on foot, without a bike.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Kanluwen wrote:
Says the army that for an edition or two could do Deathwing better than Deathwing.
Can *still* do Deathwing better than Deathwing.
But I am hoping for a BA exclusive Devastator kit that comes with four of those Frag Cannons. That would be an awesome squad. A man can dream, I guess.
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Post by: Kanluwen
casvalremdeikun wrote: Kanluwen wrote:
Says the army that for an edition or two could do Deathwing better than Deathwing.
Can *still* do Deathwing better than Deathwing.
But I am hoping for a BA exclusive Devastator kit that comes with four of those Frag Cannons. That would be an awesome squad. A man can dream, I guess.
I'd rather it stay Deathwatch only.
Blood Angels already have enough unique units/weapons. They don't need a Long Fang styled squad box that becomes just theirs. And nothing about the Frag Cannon says that it is exclusively Blood Angels, just we've only seen it on them so far.
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Post by: Yodhrin
Bottle wrote: angelofvengeance wrote:I don't know if you've got Space Hulk tiles Bottle, it looks like you could certainly use them for this.
Unfortunately, I never got Space Hulk (maybe next time around!), but these tiles still look great, especially if there is potential to grow the board even bigger.
And to fall into the conversation of this thread - there is a demographic of non- 40k player that this boardgame appeals to, and that's people like me - an ex- 40k player who would love to get back into it but is put off by the total cost of the rules and the cost of putting together a standard pick up game size army.
Here I get a full set, with beautiful miniatures from a super cool faction ( GS Cult) - I get tiles and rules for a game to play out the box - as the Genestealer cult are "faceless" the game feels like a replayable dungeon crawler (like Space Hulk) with room for expansion. Lastly, as I still play Necromunda the Genestealer cult is perfect, but again, the tiles will make for some great scenarios too using the Necromunda/second edition rules!
Cannot wait to swoop in and pick up more tiles for a bargain price hopefully ;-)
If you want to get back into 40K in a more budgety/ AoS'y/skirmishy way, locate a copy of FW's Tactical Strike rules; technically they're only "supposed" to be for Heresy Legions, but I've found they work just fine with everything else I've tried and it's far more enjoyable/manageable than 40K proper; I'll be doing a Cult force for the system(it's basically pick a Hero & 0-2 Leaders with a pool of 150pts from any Character or Independent Character entries, including unit sergeants, in the chosen faction, then pick 250-400 points of anything that isn't a Character completely freeform, with extra rules for ad-hoc units, special actions and progression for characters, and a resource-based campaign system).
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Post by: dragqueeninspace
I'll be after the stealer cult from this and I don't even play 40K since the rules are gash. Some of the nicest stuff GW have put out in recent memory. I hope this is the shape of things to come.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Kanluwen wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote: Kanluwen wrote:
Says the army that for an edition or two could do Deathwing better than Deathwing.
Can *still* do Deathwing better than Deathwing.
But I am hoping for a BA exclusive Devastator kit that comes with four of those Frag Cannons. That would be an awesome squad. A man can dream, I guess.
I'd rather it stay Deathwatch only.
Blood Angels already have enough unique units/weapons. They don't need a Long Fang styled squad box that becomes just theirs. And nothing about the Frag Cannon says that it is exclusively Blood Angels, just we've only seen it on them so far.
Up until this point, the only place to get a Frag Cannon was on the Furioso Dreadnought. It was exclusive without being Exclusive. Still, I am okay with Deathwatch having them, just BA should as well.
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Post by: M0ff3l
Does anyone know if you just get 2 of every genestealer cult unit? Like there is 1 version with the mining laser and you just get 2 of them? Or are they all different?
Up until this point, the only place to get a Frag Cannon was on the Furioso Dreadnought. It was exclusive without being Exclusive. Still, I am okay with Deathwatch having them, just BA should as well.
This is why I would have prefered if the devastator holding the frag cannon would have been a blood angel, and then only have the dark angel have a jump pack.
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Post by: AegisGrimm
I really don't like the price, but contrary to some claims, even as a 20-year 40k-er I'd personally just be playing all of the box set as a standalone game, just like my copies of Tyranid Attack and Space Hulk 3e.
Why would I ever want to play these excellent models in the mess that is 7th edition?
Although frankly, the most likely thing I will be doing is buying just the Genestealer Cultists from a bitz seller, because as cool as the DW models are, I already have a custom squad that I love since the 3rd/4th edition Chapter Approved rules. Even if that would mean paying half the original game's price just for them.
And then I'd probably be using them with the 2nd edition core rules that I modded to play more like Necromunda (small forces where everyone acts as an individual), or some other form of skirmish-level gameplay. Not every model release has to be part of a giant army to have fun playing with it.
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Post by: Shadox
M0ff3l wrote:Does anyone know if you just get 2 of every genestealer cult unit? Like there is 1 version with the mining laser and you just get 2 of them? Or are they all different?
Up until this point, the only place to get a Frag Cannon was on the Furioso Dreadnought. It was exclusive without being Exclusive. Still, I am okay with Deathwatch having them, just BA should as well.
This is why I would have prefered if the devastator holding the frag cannon would have been a blood angel, and then only have the dark angel have a jump pack.
There seem to be some doubles but there were both 2 different versions of the mining laser and and the aberrants were all different too.
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Post by: TheCrusadeSmurf
M0ff3l wrote: TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:To maximise efficiency, I'd say Cassius as Warlord, Lib as 2nd HQ and then have the Deathwatch Killteam.
As what kind of formation? Unbound?
You can take 2 HQ's in l list, you know that... right? There has to be something available to them to pad minimum troop requirement, and if all else fails, ally the bastards, Cassius isn't really going to have a while lot over the Codex version (Apart from Formations) and even then, Codex Cassius is worþ it for FnP and T6 as is.
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Post by: Dryaktylus
 AegisGrimm wrote:Although frankly, the most likely thing I will be doing is buying just the Genestealer Cultists from a bitz seller (...) Even if that would mean paying half the original game's price just for them.
I'd say that's quite optimistic...
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Post by: M0ff3l
TheCrusadeSmurf wrote: M0ff3l wrote: TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:To maximise efficiency, I'd say Cassius as Warlord, Lib as 2nd HQ and then have the Deathwatch Killteam.
As what kind of formation? Unbound?
You can take 2 HQ's in l list, you know that... right? There has to be something available to them to pad minimum troop requirement, and if all else fails, ally the bastards, Cassius isn't really going to have a while lot over the Codex version (Apart from Formations) and even then, Codex Cassius is worþ it for FnP and T6 as is.
You can take 2 HQ's in a Combined Arms Detachment yes, as it stands with this release they only have 1 troops choice, so you will never fill a Combined Arms Detachment. I was just trying to point out that fact to you... The librarian + the Donatus Squad is the way to go for allies.
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Post by: SickSix
Yup, thats me! (tries not to look at unopened Space Hulk and BaC boxes)
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Post by: AegisGrimm
 Dryaktylus wrote: AegisGrimm wrote:Although frankly, the most likely thing I will be doing is buying just the Genestealer Cultists from a bitz seller (...) Even if that would mean paying half the original game's price just for them.
I'd say that's quite optimistic...
It's pretty much been that with every single other GW boxed set. 25 dollar dread or terminator squad from Calth, 10 dollars for the two characters individually,etc. I keep meaning to get the Chaos marines and lord from Dark Vengeance for skirmish purposes, as they can be regularly had for under 20 bucks. If everyone decides to scalp cultists, I'll just do without. I have noone to split a box with, so effectively paying 165 dollars for the GC minis I want is more than I can stomach, no matter how nostalgic I desperately want to get.
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Post by: Nightlord1987
Maybe the super friends unit doesent need to maintain a 2 inch coherency?
Wouldn't that fix it up?
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Post by: M0ff3l
 Nightlord1987 wrote:Maybe the super friends unit doesent need to maintain a 2 inch coherency?
Wouldn't that fix it up?
Doesn't say anything like that in the rules, also would still not allow any of them to run :\
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Post by: Alpharius
gorgon wrote:@Alpharius -- looks like your source was dead on about the quality of the miniatures.
They certainly were!
And as high as I personally rated them before?
Double Plus Confidence Rating now!
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Post by: TheCrusadeSmurf
I, unfortunately, have little interest in the genestealers.
Sorry guys, I never used or played against 'em, so I don't miss them.
Deathwatch on the other hand? Hoo-boy...
Thought: If this is built around an upgrade sprue, there should be a deathwatch detachment allowing you to take any Codex Space Marine Units under the Deathwatch special rules.
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Post by: migooo
Dryaktylus wrote: AegisGrimm wrote:Although frankly, the most likely thing I will be doing is buying just the Genestealer Cultists from a bitz seller (...) Even if that would mean paying half the original game's price just for them.
I'd say that's quite optimistic...
Indeed price quotes I've got from several say they might be up to 12 pounds each for the sm alone.
Ill need a few more aberrant and some earlier gen hybrids than the two boxes
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Post by: godardc
Surprisingly enough, if the profile written in this thread is and my own research are correct, the cultists have almost the same profile than in 2nd edition (just lost 1 i and gain fearless IIRC).
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Post by: privateer4hire
MajorTom11 wrote:By the layout of the boards, they really should have just made them space-hulk compatible. Shame to miss the opportunity imho.
Or BaC compatible including core rules
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Post by: MajorTom11
BaC? Sorry I've been forum free for a good while, what is that abbreviation?
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Post by: Fugazi
MajorTom11 wrote:BaC? Sorry I've been forum free for a good while, what is that abbreviation?
Betrayal at Calth (the Horus Heresy box set)
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Post by: MajorTom11
Aaaaahhhhhh
Yeah, that and execution force I am not super familiar with. I know the models both boxes came with, especially Calth, but not the board games or how they work.
It's a touch off topic but still kinda by association, how have these GW boardgame style releases been as games unto themselves? How were the mechanics received? Would these games make good jumping on points for newbies?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS Alphy... you have sources of your own now do you mr.fancypants?? Someone has been holding out!!
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Post by: privateer4hire
BaC is very well done. The size of the forces you get in the set is nigh perfect for a confined (or open if they made tiles that had large avenues of fire/movement) small skirmish.
If GW so desired, they could pretty easily stat out face-off box sets using BaC rules and boards. I was hoping DWOK was going to use BaC's rules and compatible boards.
I'm looking forward to seeing how this game plays but I've heard good things about Execution Force, too. It's replayability is apparently a little bit of an issue but it's supposed to be a good solo and/or coop game.
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Post by: Fugazi
MajorTom11 wrote:It's a touch off topic but still kinda by association, how have these GW boardgame style releases been as games unto themselves? How were the mechanics received? Would these games make good jumping on points for newbies?
Space Hulk is awesome and is a great jumping on point for a new player. Give them the terminators, and you play the GSers with kid gloves. Once they get the hang of movement and action points, then you can play for real. The terminators are best for new players because they have more meaningful choices. Space Hulk, at its heart, is a puzzle game. It's great for new players especially because you don't need to get into the fluff. "Remember the movie Aliens? Yeah? Cool, this game is like that. Yeah, the scene where the colonial marines all die."
Never tried Execution Force.
Betrayal at Calth. I haven't played this too much yet. It's fun. I think it's easier to start with BaC than 40k.
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Post by: His Master's Voice
 privateer4hire wrote: MajorTom11 wrote:By the layout of the boards, they really should have just made them space-hulk compatible. Shame to miss the opportunity imho.
Or BaC compatible including core rules
Well, there's a reason why the games are not cross compatible. They don't want you to be a BaC player buying Deathwatch, they want you to be a 40k player buying BaC and Deathwatch and whatever other board game they come up with.
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Post by: Gobbla
DW, with individual marines, each with special rules (as it seems, and power armor and a motor bike) would not be directly compatible with Space Hulk. Or, BaC, for that matter. Closer to Assassinorum, I would guess. But, the leaked GW promotional says all of 3 pages of rules. So, who knows?
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Post by: kronk
MajorTom11 wrote:Aaaaahhhhhh
Yeah, that and execution force I am not super familiar with. I know the models both boxes came with, especially Calth, but not the board games or how they work.
It's a touch off topic but still kinda by association, how have these GW boardgame style releases been as games unto themselves? How were the mechanics received? Would these games make good jumping on points for newbies?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS Alphy... you have sources of your own now do you mr.fancypants?? Someone has been holding out!!
My wife and I like assasinorum's mechanics, but it is too easy. The assassin models are excellent
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Post by: MajorTom11
But are any of the games good? ( SH aside)
I am guessing none of these are really designed to 'take off', i.e, no matter how popular, they aren't games made with any intended expansions? I would assume the gameplay of Calth and EF are lackluster a bit then?
 Fugazi wrote: MajorTom11 wrote:It's a touch off topic but still kinda by association, how have these GW boardgame style releases been as games unto themselves? How were the mechanics received? Would these games make good jumping on points for newbies?
Space Hulk is awesome and is a great jumping on point for a new player. Give them the terminators, and you play the GSers with kid gloves. Once they get the hang of movement and action points, then you can play for real. The terminators are best for new players because they have more meaningful choices. Space Hulk, at its heart, is a puzzle game. It's great for new players especially because you don't need to get into the fluff. "Remember the movie Aliens? Yeah? Cool, this game is like that. Yeah, the scene where the colonial marines all die."
Never tried Execution Force.
Betrayal at Calth. I haven't played this too much yet. It's fun. I think it's easier to start with BaC than 40k.
I may have some small experience with SH (check the link in my sig)
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Post by: Vermis
TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:I, unfortunately, have little interest in the genestealers.
Sorry guys, I never used or played against 'em, so I don't miss them.
I'll have yours. I can give you whatever's in my pocket - £3.42, a mummified jelly baby, and a kleenex blessed by Nurgle.
Seriously though, I haven't paid this much attention to GW box sets in a long while - is there ever some kind of halfsies/swapping organisation thread for them, or do folk make their own arrangements?
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Post by: xraytango
I will trade my grandmother for your jelly baby.
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Post by: Kanluwen
MajorTom11 wrote:But are any of the games good? ( SH aside)
I am guessing none of these are really designed to 'take off', i.e, no matter how popular, they aren't games made with any intended expansions? I would assume the gameplay of Calth and EF are lackluster a bit then?
Nope! They're just intended to be self-contained games for the most part. Betrayal at Calth had an "expansion" via WD that was basically just "Buy two Betrayals at Calth and you can add Daemons in as well".
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Post by: privateer4hire
MajorTom11 wrote:But are any of the games good? ( SH aside)
I am guessing none of these are really designed to 'take off', i.e, no matter how popular, they aren't games made with any intended expansions? I would assume the gameplay of Calth and EF are lackluster a bit then?
Fugazi wrote: MajorTom11 wrote:It's a touch off topic but still kinda by association, how have these GW boardgame style releases been as games unto themselves? How were the mechanics received? Would these games make good jumping on points for newbies?
Space Hulk is awesome and is a great jumping on point for a new player. Give them the terminators, and you play the GSers with kid gloves. Once they get the hang of movement and action points, then you can play for real. The terminators are best for new players because they have more meaningful choices. Space Hulk, at its heart, is a puzzle game. It's great for new players especially because you don't need to get into the fluff. "Remember the movie Aliens? Yeah? Cool, this game is like that. Yeah, the scene where the colonial marines all die."
Never tried Execution Force.
Betrayal at Calth. I haven't played this too much yet. It's fun. I think it's easier to start with BaC than 40k.
I may have some small experience with SH (check the link in my sig)
BaC doesn't have lackluster rules. Players alternate activating all the models in a space (a unit) and can move, run, shoot or assault.
Different weapons have differing # of dice and you can trigger one critical effect of a weapon used during an attack if at least one die is a critical hit (like rolling a 6).
Frex, if you attack with bolters and a missile launcher and roll a crit, you can either use the bolter ability to take away an activation point from a unit---a huge impact---or roll more dice for possible damage by selecting the missile launcher's crit effect.
There are 'take that' type cards that can be played whenever they say (after an attack, before you move, etc.) and they really add flavor.
Add to that, the fact that you are fighting a turn limit for the mission and also have to accomplish/prevent your opponent from accomplishing stuff and it's a lot of fun.
I'm really curious to see what DWOK rules are going to be like. GW have been stepping up the GAMES part of their bidness and it's pretty cool.
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Post by: Fugazi
Ha, so you do. I've seen your work there. Great stuff. Didn't make the immediate connection here.
My initial impression of BaC was "neat." I haven't played enough or really scratched the surface of the missions yet though. As an intro type game, I think it works well because you have a closed universe of stuff for the missions and you aren't dealing with 50-70 models per side or whatever.
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Post by: Veteran Sergeant
The Deathwatch guys are a little too busy looking for a gritty purist like me, but those Genestealer Cult models kicked me square in the nostalgia.
I'm so glad to see them back in the game, and the fluff. I just hope they've been treated right in the rules and fluff. The models are absolutely gorgeous. I only wish the cultists weren't monopose.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Kanluwen wrote: MajorTom11 wrote:But are any of the games good? ( SH aside)
I am guessing none of these are really designed to 'take off', i.e, no matter how popular, they aren't games made with any intended expansions? I would assume the gameplay of Calth and EF are lackluster a bit then?
Nope! They're just intended to be self-contained games for the most part. Betrayal at Calth had an "expansion" via WD that was basically just "Buy two Betrayals at Calth and you can add Daemons in as well".
To be honest though, they KNEW there would be folks who had bought more than 1 copy lol.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
I'll take well-composed monopose over multipart compromise almost any day. Plastic is so easy to convert to differentiate multiples. Hell, one of my SM forces is all plastic monopose Tyranid Attack Scouts, just chopped, reposed, converted and reglued. Very fun to do! If I can stretch to two DW boxes that's what I'll be doing with the Cult multiples.
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Post by: Warhams-77
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Post by: Apple fox
They have a bike in the corridors ?
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Post by: plastictrees
Hopefully there's a 6 game round Austin Powers style turning around procedure for the bike.
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Post by: Hanskrampf
100 GBP = 140 EUR? What kind of conversion rate is GW using? This may be cheaper ordering from UK, even with shipping.
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Post by: Gordy2000
You think that's bad - try £100 = $330 NZ. At current exchange rates it should be $210 NZ. Even by the usual GW pricing standards that is appalling.
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Post by: Thud
 Gordy2000 wrote:You think that's bad - try £100 = $330 NZ. At current exchange rates it should be $210 NZ. Even by the usual GW pricing standards that is appalling.
Look on the bright side; it's only £90 in Norway.
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Post by: barnacle111
$280 aud!! Actual exchange rate is $195 at the moment, so will get it in the uk when we visit in April! Aside from insane pricing, it looks like some great miniatures and kill team rules... Awesome.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
Huh it's cheaper than I thought it would be.
Admittedly only by $10-20 AUD, but this giant, dark cloud has a slim, silver lining
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
AUD$280? Jesus Christ GW...
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Post by: Warhams-77
About six weeks ago this GBP - EUR exchange rate was correct. But last weeks' announcement and this week's development of GB planning to leave the EU is driving the GBP downwards. Well... the Pound is tanking actually. Back at the 2009 low and continuing to fall. Good times to shop TT stuff there again if you live in the EU.
There are also german shops selling it 20% off for those living here, but Element's and other shop's discounts are getting more and more tempting with the Pound falling.
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Post by: Joyboozer
Is there a miniatures only pledge level?
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Post by: tneva82
the_Armyman wrote:Exactly 5 people are buying this as a boardgame. I took a worldwide survey, and those were the numbers I got. The other 45,329 people are purchasing this for 40K. 40K. The game that makes all these other experiments like AOS and boutique boardgames possible. Wouldn't you prefer for $165, that this boxed set contained rules for 40K instead of some foreign cardstock filler? A 48 page campaign booklet with the full rules included (not another $8 and two issues of WD over 2 weeks)?.
Ah yes. 165$ for just models and 40k rules rather than 165$ for models, board game AND 40k rules is much better obviously
(oh and nice "testing waters" they did as you claimed they would do. Whopping 1 week difference before rules for 40k and board game. Hyper quick thing! Their lead times are usually 18 months. Now you claim they tested waters for less than 0 seconds(it's not even on sales yet we know 40k rules are in...)
And yeah your worldwide survey...Care to show where? How? Lots of people likely don't even know your survey so it's hardly conclusive. Oh and just because somebody buys it for 40k doesn't mean they can't find the game itself good bonus. That was pretty much my space hulk purchase as a matter of fact. Bunch of cool termies and some stealers for 40k. Game was still nice bonus. Better to have models, 40k rules AND game for same price rather than just models and 40k rules.
After all...Now we are getting for 165$ models, game AND 40k rules while you would prefer them to dumb the game for...what? not even price reduction since you say same price? I mean I could understand your point of view better if you said "dump the game and have it 120$" or something but 165$ for less content seems...Odd? Could you maybe elaborate that more?
IDEALLY we would have cheaper box with just models and more expensive with board game but c'est'la'vie.
But better 40k rules wouldn't have happened anyway. Not like the 40k rules are linked to board game rules. Same models, same 40k rules.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
$25 USD tax for getting the game in the US. I am going halfsies for the Deathwatch and a buddy is taking the GC. $82.5 for 11 Marines is a bit much, but oh well.
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Post by: Chikout
At current exchabge rates Europeans pay the equivalent of £113, in Australia it £144. Here in Japan it is £146. Six months ago it woulf have been £122. The weak pound is good for Gw as an
exporting company.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
I actually love that it turns out this is a historical, 'a first Genestealer contact' story by the look of it.
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Post by: Chikout
Also with about a three month lead time between making and releasung a white dwarf, it is safe to assume that the price was set at least that long ago. You cant blame Gw for the pound tanking. You can blame them for continuing to shaft the east though.
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Post by: StraightSilver
Just reading back over the last couple of pages one thing that does strike me is that the majority of people buying this set will probably keep the miniatures and then bin or sell the actual game components.
The same thing happened with BaC, not so sure about Execution Force but it certainly was a better deal to buy the game just for the minis rather than buying the assassins seperately.
Obvioulsy that is the big draw, I have 2 BaC sets because thhe savings on the marines was too good to pass up.
However for everybody who is buying the box just for the figures I would say - Give the game a try!
I only say that because this seems to be a step in the right direction for GW - they are actually writing games again.
OK so Execution Force and BaC weren't mind blowing in terms of rules and design - but they were fun, and the rules work.
In other words so far they haven't sucked, maybe they're not as good as Space Hulk but they aren't bad.
So give the game a try, you might be pleasantly surprised and hopefully it will encourage GW to try more new tings in the future.
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Post by: Slinky
I certainly plan to play the game, and also to put the GSC models together with the Space Hulk Genestealers to form the core of a 40k army
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Post by: StraightSilver
 Slinky wrote:I certainly plan to play the game, and also to put the GSC models together with the Space Hulk Genestealers to form the core of a 40k army
Me too.
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Post by: jorny
I am considering getting this as a boxed game only. Have no interest in playing 40k, but getting some nice models and a game in a setting I am fond of? Done deal.
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Post by: Warhams-77
I love these type of games, they are a nice break from 40k, and we will play D:OK for sure. We also use the tiles to add subterranean areas to our 40k games where you have to solve missions too. Such battles have become club members-favourite 40k games and these and the BaC tiles with larger rooms are a welcome addition to the Space Hulk tiles. The old Fat Dwarf Space Hulk tiles are great for these scenarios, too.
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Post by: kronk
 jorny wrote:I am considering getting this as a boxed game only. Have no interest in playing 40k, but getting some nice models and a game in a setting I am fond of? Done deal.
Were I to buy it, that would be my plan, too. I have no interest in a Genestealer cult army and only the Imperial Fist model matches one of my armies. However, these are very nice sculpts.
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Post by: Bottle
jorny wrote:I am considering getting this as a boxed game only. Have no interest in playing 40k, but getting some nice models and a game in a setting I am fond of? Done deal.
Yep, my thoughts exactly. And to me DW:OK seems to have a similar depth to sink your teeth into, like Space Hulk. I can imagine homebrew rules for additional forces could really bring the game alive and give it longevity.
I don't play 40k but occasionally paint up models (like my Skitarii), I will no doubt try adding them into this game to see what madness I can brew up :-)
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Post by: Imateria
Chikout wrote:Also with about a three month lead time between making and releasung a white dwarf, it is safe to assume that the price was set at least that long ago. You cant blame Gw for the pound tanking. You can blame them for continuing to shaft the east though.
Whilst I'm hardly unsympathetic, I wonder if people living in the East know how much it costs GW to ship their products over there? I've bought Kotobukia and Bandai models from Japan on a regular basis and shipping nearly doubles the price every time.
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Post by: Warhams-77
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Post by: Wulfson_40K
 Hanskrampf wrote:100 GBP = 140 EUR? What kind of conversion rate is GW using? This may be cheaper ordering from UK, even with shipping.
For us it's a big problem, no matter what discount we apply we can't compete with UK online retailers on that one. It's not the first time it happens, but for that box specifically and at that price I already know that we are losing sales and there is not a thing we can do about it. It's really aggravating.
PS-
In case that wasn't mentioned before, as I didn't really read much of that thread these past days, rules for the DW and the Cult will become available for free on the GW website in the near future.
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Post by: M0ff3l
The solid shell is S7 AP3? Damn, that makes the Deathwatch frag cannon even better!
I also missed the part of heroic intervention that they ignore disordered charge, thats neat.
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Post by: tetrisphreak
Very interesting datasheets for the Deathwatch marines included in the box. Says right there they have the "Deathwatch Faction" meaning they're probably going to have more models and formations released at a later time. Fielding them alone isn't really an option since they don't have Independent Character rules (except cassius) and a single wound T4 3+ save model would get clipped pretty quickly in a regular game of 40K.
I think this is going to be a great release for imperial and xenos players both, if we see it fleshed out more. I can't wait to see the genecult rules next week!
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Post by: conker249
I really just want 3-4 sets of those tiles. make a great addition to the BaC tiles to make each game more unique
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Post by: Hanskrampf
The Kill Team rules are kinda poor, aren't they?
White Scar is the only one with Split Fire, but has only bolters.
Salamander in TDA is blocking the whole unit from running.
IC only on Blood Raven and Cassius. So the two jump pack guys, the Salamander and White Scar are units of there own if taken outside of the Kill Team and can't join anything?
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Post by: M0ff3l
 tetrisphreak wrote:Very interesting datasheets for the Deathwatch marines included in the box. Says right there they have the "Deathwatch Faction" meaning they're probably going to have more models and formations released at a later time. Fielding them alone isn't really an option since they don't have Independent Character rules (except cassius) and a single wound T4 3+ save model would get clipped pretty quickly in a regular game of 40K.
I think this is going to be a great release for imperial and xenos players both, if we see it fleshed out more. I can't wait to see the genecult rules next week!
Rules are not included in the box, they are available in the white dwarf or from the GW website.
Right now the only good way to field them, in my opinion, is as an allied detachment of Jensus Natorian + Squad Donatus
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Post by: Thud
 Imateria wrote:Chikout wrote:Also with about a three month lead time between making and releasung a white dwarf, it is safe to assume that the price was set at least that long ago. You cant blame Gw for the pound tanking. You can blame them for continuing to shaft the east though.
Whilst I'm hardly unsympathetic, I wonder if people living in the East know how much it costs GW to ship their products over there? I've bought Kotobukia and Bandai models from Japan on a regular basis and shipping nearly doubles the price every time.
Heh. Somehow I don't think GW use the same shipping options you have available when buying a couple of products.
It's between $800 to 900 USD per 40" container from London to Shanghai, btw (+$100 to Tokyo).
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Post by: M0ff3l
Hanskrampf wrote:The Kill Team rules are kinda poor, aren't they?
White Scar is the only one with Split Fire, but has only bolters.
Salamander in TDA is blocking the whole unit from running.
IC only on Blood Raven and Cassius. So the two jump pack guys, the Salamander and White Scar are units of there own if taken outside of the Kill Team and can't join anything?
Yup, really weird that those 4 are not IC's, maybe in the future when deathwatch gets a full release this will get adressed (with formations or they will be made ICs) for now only the 2 IC's and the troops choice seem worth it. Maybe the terminator, but for 60 points he is kinda meh.
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Post by: txdyz
Hanskrampf wrote:The Kill Team rules are kinda poor, aren't they?
White Scar is the only one with Split Fire, but has only bolters.
Salamander in TDA is blocking the whole unit from running.
IC only on Blood Raven and Cassius. So the two jump pack guys, the Salamander and White Scar are units of there own if taken outside of the Kill Team and can't join anything?
TDA models can run.
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Post by: Nevelon
Hanskrampf wrote:The Kill Team rules are kinda poor, aren't they?
White Scar is the only one with Split Fire, but has only bolters.
Salamander in TDA is blocking the whole unit from running.
IC only on Blood Raven and Cassius. So the two jump pack guys, the Salamander and White Scar are units of there own if taken outside of the Kill Team and can't join anything?
There are some perks. If you look at the split fire rules, it doesn’t say the model that has the rule needs to be the one shooting at a different target. And rules like Stubborn and Stealth just need one guy in the squad to have it to benefit everyone.
The killteam is an overpriced mish-mash of rules, guys, and gear. It’s not something I’d take as-is, unless they get some formations/detachments/special rules. If at some point we get the option to build our own, I think some very nice squads could be put together.
But right now they are just a bunch of cool models.
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Post by: Paradigm
I find it rather funny that Cassius's sheet has it spelled out that Frag Grenades are Assault Grenades... like they are on, y'know, literally every other model that has them. The Scar having split fire is probably useful when you're using them as the one uber-squad, as it can you up to shoot one target and assault a different one, on his own it's completely pointless.
I do think these guys might do well in an actual Kill Team game at 200-300-odd points, given that you aren't likely to get whole squads in TDA or with JPs, but the odd mini with them when everyone's acting on their own is quite nice. The squad+ the two Jumpers or a jumper and the biker at 250 points is probably pretty neat, actually.
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Post by: Hanskrampf
txdyz wrote: Hanskrampf wrote:The Kill Team rules are kinda poor, aren't they?
White Scar is the only one with Split Fire, but has only bolters.
Salamander in TDA is blocking the whole unit from running.
IC only on Blood Raven and Cassius. So the two jump pack guys, the Salamander and White Scar are units of there own if taken outside of the Kill Team and can't join anything?
TDA models can run.
Nevelon wrote: Hanskrampf wrote:The Kill Team rules are kinda poor, aren't they?
White Scar is the only one with Split Fire, but has only bolters.
Salamander in TDA is blocking the whole unit from running.
IC only on Blood Raven and Cassius. So the two jump pack guys, the Salamander and White Scar are units of there own if taken outside of the Kill Team and can't join anything?
There are some perks. If you look at the split fire rules, it doesn’t say the model that has the rule needs to be the one shooting at a different target. And rules like Stubborn and Stealth just need one guy in the squad to have it to benefit everyone.
The killteam is an overpriced mish-mash of rules, guys, and gear. It’s not something I’d take as-is, unless they get some formations/detachments/special rules. If at some point we get the option to build our own, I think some very nice squads could be put together.
But right now they are just a bunch of cool models.
You're both right. Seems like I need to read the Special rules section again. That does make it interesting again.
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Post by: Albertorius
StraightSilver wrote:Just reading back over the last couple of pages one thing that does strike me is that the majority of people buying this set will probably keep the miniatures and then bin or sell the actual game components.
The same thing happened with BaC, not so sure about Execution Force but it certainly was a better deal to buy the game just for the minis rather than buying the assassins seperately.
Yeah, I actually bought the BaC box and components, without minis, for 10 euros. It is a good price for a boardgame (turned out it is enjoyable enough), I feel, and I already had more than enough SMs and CSMs to use it, so...
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Post by: streamdragon
Warhams-77 wrote:Scanner - SpikeyBits Forum
>more pics snipped<
Can someone rehost to imgur or something for the work blocked? Spikeybits is blocked :(
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Post by: Rainyday
Kanluwen wrote: MajorTom11 wrote:But are any of the games good? ( SH aside)
I am guessing none of these are really designed to 'take off', i.e, no matter how popular, they aren't games made with any intended expansions? I would assume the gameplay of Calth and EF are lackluster a bit then?
Nope! They're just intended to be self-contained games for the most part. Betrayal at Calth had an "expansion" via WD that was basically just "Buy two Betrayals at Calth and you can add Daemons in as well".
Assassinorum had a similar "expansion" of a WD article with rules on switching out the chaos lord for a demon prince in case you have one just lying around. I wouldn't be surprised if a month after release there was a page of rules in WD to add in a lictor or something.
Assassinorum is nice because it's a cooperative multiplayer board game, the kind that's easy to get non- 40k board gamers to play, but aside from the rooms being randomized, it's basically the same every time. It's a shame GW never support their board games post-release because it really could use some expansions and they've had plenty of opportunities to make relevant ones. When Kau'yon came out they could have easily released a Tau expansion based on the mission to kill one of the tau leaders. A few drones, maybe some stealth suits, a new plastic sculpt of a Tau leader, and new tau-ish room tiles for the game, throw it in a box, and call it an expansion.
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Post by: migooo
Rainyday wrote: Kanluwen wrote: MajorTom11 wrote:But are any of the games good? ( SH aside)
I am guessing none of these are really designed to 'take off', i.e, no matter how popular, they aren't games made with any intended expansions? I would assume the gameplay of Calth and EF are lackluster a bit then?
Nope! They're just intended to be self-contained games for the most part. Betrayal at Calth had an "expansion" via WD that was basically just "Buy two Betrayals at Calth and you can add Daemons in as well".
Assassinorum had a similar "expansion" of a WD article with rules on switching out the chaos lord for a demon prince in case you have one just lying around. I wouldn't be surprised if a month after release there was a page of rules in WD to add in a lictor or something.
Assassinorum is nice because it's a cooperative multiplayer board game, the kind that's easy to get non- 40k board gamers to play, but aside from the rooms being randomized, it's basically the same every time. It's a shame GW never support their board games post-release because it really could use some expansions and they've had plenty of opportunities to make relevant ones. When Kau'yon came out they could have easily released a Tau expansion based on the mission to kill one of the tau leaders. A few drones, maybe some stealth suits, a new plastic sculpt of a Tau leader, and new tau-ish room tiles for the game, throw it in a box, and call it an expansion.
i actually would prefer Ymargl Genestealers. though i suspect headswaps will be quite easy
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Post by: Hanskrampf
 streamdragon wrote:
Warhams-77 wrote:Scanner - SpikeyBits Forum
>more pics snipped<
Can someone rehost to imgur or something for the work blocked? Spikeybits is blocked :(
You're welcome.
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Post by: Swara
So if they are all together they will at least have stealth and shrouded the first turn...
I certainly hope that they do something to help place them in other armies.. I've already house ruled that our players can put them in as a unit upgrade... cuz it just makes sense.
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Post by: Ffyllotek
I'm a tad disappointed with the special ammo rules. The rules (albeit apocalypse) in Damnos suggested they pick their targets before battle and get ammo to deal with that enemy. Anti RP ammo for instance.
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Post by: =Angel=
A White-Scars thunderhawk touches down at a super secret Deathwatch base. Two watch commanders wait patiently on the pad.
The ramp lowers and a marine roars out on a bike.
'Well met Battle Brother. Please leave your combat bike in the thunderhawk for your chapter to return to its armoury. You won't be needing it.'
The whitescar's expression hardens.
'Brother, we don't field bikes here in the deathwatch. We board spacehulks and infiltrate xeno filled labyrinths. You need to be on foot to stay with your comrades'
A cold wind whistles across the pad, stirring the white armoured astartes' topknot. His expression remains obstinate and unyielding.
'I'm sorry brother, but those are the rules. The deathwatch is a strict military brotherhood. we don't allow everyone to just do as they please.'
A dark angel flies through the door of the facility, landing roughly at the feet of the watch commanders. A drunk space wolf staggers onto the pad, swigging mead.
'Cahmon denya sisseh' roars the wolf , his native fenrisian words lost on all present. 'Ahnoo twas ye that dranned mah favrit serfav his blude!'
As the dark angel picked himself up and tried to get his hood out of his eyes, fair haired marine peeks around the door, wiping red fluid from his mouth.
Whilst the dark angel adjusts the rope belt, the space wolf flings his tankard at the son of caliban, spilling beer all over his robes. The Dark angel responds by uppercutting the wolf, the two of them falling to the floor in a mad brawl.
'As my colleague was saying' continued a Watch Commander ' You'll need to surrender your bike. Otherwise you will be returned to your chapter'
The marine seemed to consider this for a moment, then idled his bike forward, closer to the Commander. He leaned in to speak, so close that his moustache tickled the ear of the Officer. He spoke quietly, his voice barely a whisper.
'Have to catch me first.'
The bike exploded into life as the whitescar gunned the throttle, raising up on the rear wheel and shooting straight through the facility door.
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Post by: Swara
Exalted Angel, lol
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Post by: pretre
The bike dude would be okay to add Thunderwolf ICs to get hit and run and skilled rider.
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Post by: Requizen
So have we learned how to bring these guys in 40k? Or is that the next WD?
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Post by: Slinky
Requizen wrote:So have we learned how to bring these guys in 40k? Or is that the next WD?
Read upwards, the datasheets are all in this thread
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Post by: pretre
Slinky wrote:Requizen wrote:So have we learned how to bring these guys in 40k? Or is that the next WD?
Read upwards, the datasheets are all in this thread
We don't know force org or anything though. Right now, they're in Inquisition faction? Inq only has HQ and Elites though.
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Post by: M0ff3l
 pretre wrote: Slinky wrote:Requizen wrote:So have we learned how to bring these guys in 40k? Or is that the next WD?
Read upwards, the datasheets are all in this thread
We don't know force org or anything though. Right now, they're in Inquisition faction? Inq only has HQ and Elites though.
They are their own faction, Deathwatch, they have 1 formation of taking all 11 of them, or you can just take any normal formation that you can fill with them. Cassius and the librarian are HQ, the biker is fast attack, the termiantor and 2 assault marines are all seperate elites choices and the remaining 5 are squad donatus, which is a troops choice.
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Post by: pretre
M0ff3l wrote: pretre wrote: Slinky wrote:Requizen wrote:So have we learned how to bring these guys in 40k? Or is that the next WD?
Read upwards, the datasheets are all in this thread
We don't know force org or anything though. Right now, they're in Inquisition faction?
Inq only has HQ and Elites though.
They are their own faction, Deathwatch, they have 1 formation of taking all 11 of them, or you can just take any normal formation that you can fill with them. Cassius and the librarian are HQ, the biker is fast attack, the termiantor and 2 assault marines are all seperate elites choices and the remaining 5 are squad donatus, which is a troops choice.
Is that backed up by the WD or are you guessing? Because that would mean you can only take an allied detachment since there's only one troops choice.
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Post by: Requizen
Yes technically it looks like you could make an Allied Detachment out of them... but what Faction are they? Is that symbol Inq?
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Post by: Slinky
Nothing to stop you taking multiples of the troop choice though, presumably?
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Post by: kronk
I'm betting that the WD will have a unique Death Watch CAD sort of thingy.
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Post by: M0ff3l
Is that backed up by the WD or are you guessing? Because that would mean you can only take an allied detachment since there's only one troops choice.
That is backed up by the WD, and yes its either allied detachment or the formation as it stands.
Requizen wrote:Yes technically it looks like you could make an Allied Detachment out of them... but what Faction are they? Is that symbol Inq?
They are a new faction called Deathwatch, that symbol is the deathwatch symbol (a bit different from the inquisition symbol)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Slinky wrote:Nothing to stop you taking multiples of the troop choice though, presumably?
All the characters in the troops choice squad are unique, so you can only take it once.
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Post by: Warhams-77
@Pretre There has not been a DW detachment in one of the leaked pages yet. We got rules for allying them into other armies. They are a faction of their own. They do not use the Inquisition symbol.
Ninjaed by Moffel
Scanner on the Spikey Bits forum updated an earlier post - no detachment yet - but better pics of the boardgame pages and WD cover&back cover
Source: http://forum.spikeybits.com/showthread.php?21941-Genestealer-Cult-vs-Deathwatch-Roundup&p=237934&viewfull=1#post237934
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Post by: BaronVonSnakPak
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but it looks like March 5th is the release date.
http://cdn.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/deathwatch-prices.jpg
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Post by: Warhams-77
The GC miniatures will looking fantastic on a tabletop battlefield. Especially on grey city ruin tables and the like, or jungles. I cannot wait playing 40k with them again.
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Post by: jreilly89
Rules garbage or not, these minis all look fantastic!
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Post by: Warhams-77
Oh and Blasting charges
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Post by: Tyran
They look quite good.
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Post by: Swampmist
Hit and Run nids? Welp, Time to get the bugspray
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Post by: Warhams-77
New Genestealers combined with Ymgarls kit later this year? With all the changes to their appearance this looks likely - especially after Tau got updated kits.
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Post by: Ghaz
Slinky wrote:Nothing to stop you taking multiples of the troop choice though, presumably?
The models in the troop choice have the 'Unique' rule.
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Post by: Warhams-77
2nd Ed stats - from Kid Kyoto's Black Codex retro review
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Post by: Ratius
Those acolytes (cost dependant) are almost better than codex stealers.
Same save, 4 attacks on the charge, rending, fearless and assault grenades
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Post by: the_scotsman
YMDC question: 3 CCWs/pistols, do you get +2 attacks?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Oh man, that brings back memories
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Post by: the_scotsman
Only example I can think of is ork Deff dreads with 4 CCW arms...
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Post by: samir_rex
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Post by: pretre
No. The rule is '2 or more melee weapons'. MORE THAN ONE WEAPON Unless otherwise stated, if a model has more than one shooting weapon, he must choose which one to shoot – he cannot fire both in the same Shooting phase. If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows – he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons. However, it’s worth remembering that if a model has two or more Melee weapons he gains +1 attack in close combat.
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Post by: Warhams-77
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Post by: Frozen Ocean
This looks really quite good. I'm surprised by GW's competency. This is a narrative event, with a time and place. Not that it'll be a fantastic story, but it's just good to see them using, modernising, and expanding upon these long-standing events in the ten thousand year timeline.
I was always put off of the Genestealer Cult fluff by the absurdity of the "fat toad man" Patriarch, but a spiky Spawn of Cryptus is much better. All of the miniatures look great. I am thoroughly pleased by this release so far. Well done, GW!
That was perfect. Exalted!
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Post by: M0ff3l
Only walkers gain more attacks for each additional CCW beyond the first.
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Post by: zamerion
When the cult codex will come? 
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Post by: ecurtz
I've got a range ruler so cunning...
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Post by: mjl7atlas
Would be pretty cool if they integrated this game in with the assassin's.
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Post by: dan2026
Probably sometime later this year.
Also I never quite understood why the original Patriarch model was a fat humanoid creature.
Surely the Patriarch would be a full Genestealer grown more powerful with psychic power.
There is no reason he would become more human. Let alone fat and useless looking.
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Post by: NobodyXY
I've not seen anything that says this the GSC are multipart/multi pose?! if not what a waste of a kit. If so sign me up. First GW product in years for me if it is. Thats probably GW's biggest asset.
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Post by: Frozocrone
Just seen the Frag Cannon round, so BA lost something else unique (Rending Flamer)? Lol
But as a Tyranid player, I'm quite liking these releases. They seem competent.
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Post by: ShaneTB
EDIT: Removed to avoid derailing News; I'll take this to another thread (perhaps).
Though this will make me ask them directly.
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Post by: M0ff3l
ShaneTB wrote:BS0 on the Patriach?
Going to be reet difficult casting Psychic Shriek...
You have no idea what you've started...
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Post by: Swara
Isn't Shriek a nova attack? Or maybe I'm thinking of something else.
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Post by: Sinful Hero
Does it have a choice between the codex powers and Telepathy? Because the unit entry above states it generates its powers from telepathy.
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Post by: Frozocrone
 Swara wrote:Isn't Shriek a nova attack? Or maybe I'm thinking of something else.
Psychic Shriek is a witchfire. Psychic Scream (Tyranid Power) is a Nova.
We can safely assume that the RAI is that Psychic Shriek doesn't require roll to hit in any case.
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Post by: reaverX
ShaneTB wrote:BS0 on the Patriach?
Going to be reet difficult casting Psychic Shriek...
So it begins....
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Couldn't get through the whole thread, so I am asking: Will this be a limited release? Or am I safe waiting half a year to pick this up?
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Post by: tetrisphreak
Swara wrote:Isn't Shriek a nova attack? Or maybe I'm thinking of something else.
psychic scream is the nova. It's the nid power. Psy shriek is the primaris for telepathy.
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Post by: M0ff3l
Sinful Hero wrote:Does it have a choice between the codex powers and Telepathy? Because the unit entry above states it generates its powers from telepathy.
no codex powers, as it is not from codex tyranids. Only telepathy.
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Post by: Sinful Hero
M0ff3l wrote: Sinful Hero wrote:Does it have a choice between the codex powers and Telepathy? Because the unit entry above states it generates its powers from telepathy.
no codex powers, as it is not from codex tyranids. Only telepathy.
That's what I thought. So the entire tangent about Psychic Shriek is even more irrelevant.
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Post by: Veteran Sergeant
They actually had their own list in the 2nd Edition Tyranids book. I used to run one in small-points tournaments.
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Post by: Warhams-77
We dont know the familiars' rules
These COULD fix that bs0 issue
@Bob Half a year? Not sure if the game won't be sold out until then.
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Post by: M0ff3l
Can we just agree to not derail this thread into another psychic shriek discussion?
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Post by: Ashiraya
ShaneTB wrote:BS0 on the Patriach?
Going to be reet difficult casting Psychic Shriek...
Some men just want to watch the world burn.
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Post by: Dryaktylus
dan2026 wrote:Also I never quite understood why the original Patriarch model was a fat humanoid creature.
Surely the Patriarch would be a full Genestealer grown more powerful with psychic power.
There is no reason he would become more human. Let alone fat and useless looking.
He wasn't more humanoid than the other (metal) Genestealers. He looked human because he was sitting like a human, and was fat/bloated like a human who sits all day long. I converted a young Patriarch out of a plastic Genestealer with metal arms - he looks kinda like a human (with an alien costume) too, but so looks a sitting cat.
Growing more powerful with increasing psychic powers... well, the Slann aren't Battletoads either.
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Post by: Swara
 Frozocrone wrote: Swara wrote:Isn't Shriek a nova attack? Or maybe I'm thinking of something else.
Psychic Shriek is a witchfire. Psychic Scream (Tyranid Power) is a Nova.
We can safely assume that the RAI is that Psychic Shriek doesn't require roll to hit in any case.
Ah, that's what I was thinking of.
I would also assume the same thing.
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Post by: Warhams-77
This was the actual Patriarch model to game with - next to Familiars
Source of photo: http://miniatureextravaganza.blogspot.de/2015/02/genestealer-cult.html
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