So, earlier today I was trying to come up with a list. I noticed the Stormlord counts as open topped for the purposes of assaulting out of it, though I think even with 7e's permissiveness on force org, the AM detachment would have to be a full combined arms detachment to take one.
So, if I shove 1 CCS, 2 Vet squads in there (probably 10x melta or plasma guns) and a min BSS.
I'd still have room for about 10 more models and roughly 625 points.
I was thinking Hammerhand + Rad Grenades Inquisitor + Priest with the book that makes priests auto-succeed at their War Hymns.
Then I'm still short an HQ. One possibility was:
1 Cannoness, with the 4++ and EW and an Eviscerator.
1 Command squad with the banner, Hospitaller, and 3 power weapons
2 more priests with maces.
Depending on what the Inq and squad's power weapons are there's a lot of AP2 swings in there at decent strength espcially since everyone involved is at +1 attacks from the banner. At more than 1500 points anyone within 12" of the tank while they're embarked gets that too.
I think i had enough points for 2 wyverns, which means the army would literally deploy one really big tank, and two wyverns and everything else would be embarked at the start.
I also considered dropping the command squad, getting 3 primaris psykers, fishing through sanctic for the thing that makes saves 1 better and the +2 Hammerhand. The upside of that is that fully buffed the Cannoness would be swinging at S8 AP2 with rerollable 3++ in melee, while the squad would now boast 4 force weapons and however many AP2 attacks smashing priests could bring.
(Oh, and toss in 3 crusaders who would be rerollable 2++ in melee riding in an assault super heavy.)
The problem I have is that a mobile force could use the terrain hide out of LoS and outscore me. A normal opponent, I'd probably just roll over in an uninteresting way. Also, I'm pretty sure bringing a rerollable 2++ star inside a super heavy at 1500 would make me TFG.
I suspect it'd be one of those "win spectacularly or lose spectacularly" things, since almost all your eggs are in one (superheavy) basket. This list is actually quite weak against heavy tanks, because the Stormlord's main gun is only S:6 AP:3, meaning you'll never even glance AV:13 -- and you'll never cause an Explodes! result against any vehicle on the new vehicle damage table. MSU will also be a problem, at least until your infantry squads dismount and get some distance from the Stormlord so they can cover more targets. And with so little infantry, you'll have trouble with objectives, although less so than in the last edition. Basically I suspect you'll have three probable outcomes: table your opponent, lose on objectives, or get shot to pieces by heavy armour such as Leman Russes and Imperial Knights.
I could if I threw in a second troop squad. I'd have to to take Jacobus, but other than making my squads fearless after they leave the tank he doesn't seem that good.
He certainly doesn't address my big weaknesses: long-range anti-tank, 10 melta guns on the IG should make short work of short range anti-tank. If the canonness doesn't. It also does nothing against highly mobile enemies. I have visions of eldar jet bikes turbo boosting from LoS blocking terrain to LoS blocking terrain.
Really, I think what this comes down to is in wish I could take the big tank in the Sisters detachment and be more free about how I spend the rest of the points.
This all really started as yet another attempt of mine to stick our +1 attack banner somewhere where it wouldn't be insta killed.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I guess an alternative approach would have been to bring some guys who can repair the tank along with 3 servitors. Put the sister squad(s) in rhinos and have them contest stuff on a different part of the board (assuming anything that can stay out of LoS is small enough to deal with with a couple melta guns and some bolters).
There is nothing in the rulebook that prevents you from taking Jacobus as your warlord now. I could not find any mentions of it needing to be the model with the highest leadership as was stipulated in 6th.
Yeah, 1 HQ + 2 Troops is the minimum for a "combined arms detachment" that grants you the old FOC (max: 2 HQ, 6 Troops, 3 each Elite, FA, & HS) plus 1 Lord o'War & 1 Fortification. You can take as many such detachments as you want, from different armies.
The Allied FOC is still a thing, same minima and maxima as before, but you don't need to take it to have two allied armies.
Yeah, I was just trying to avoid being forced into 2 HQs 4 troops after spending 585 points on a LoW. Oh well, I have a feeling our command squad doesn't need a ride that pimped out or rather can't really have enough stuff to buff with the banner once that many points have been spent.
If you are seriously considering the Stormlord, i would suggest spending the extra 100pts to get the 4 Lascannons.
Something most baneblade players forget.
Personally i check agreement with my opponent to also get +1 BS for the 30pts upgrade (from the Shadowsword stats) but thats only cause it's pimped out with SoB icons everywhere =P
Hello guys, I want to add some sisters to my AM. So far I have only bought 1 cannoness and 10 sisters. I was planning on getting 10 more sisters and either fly them on the valkyries or buy them their pimped out rhinos. Should I go that route or buy something else from their army. This will be an allied detachment most likely.
I think the sisters are cheap and would help with securing objectives in maelstorm missions.
My army will probably be AM + some sisters + 1 knight. Probably a stormlord down the line to replace the knight.
ashikenshin wrote: Hello guys, I want to add some sisters to my AM. So far I have only bought 1 cannoness and 10 sisters. I was planning on getting 10 more sisters and either fly them on the valkyries or buy them their pimped out rhinos. Should I go that route or buy something else from their army. This will be an allied detachment most likely.
I think the sisters are cheap and would help with securing objectives in maelstorm missions.
My army will probably be AM + some sisters + 1 knight. Probably a stormlord down the line to replace the knight.
I think some cheap effective sisters will be a squad of 5 or 6 in an immolater built up to your liking. For example you can take a basic squad with a heavy flamer immolater and give the squad a flamer and heavy flamer. the take a fast attack of dominions and give them 4 melta guns riding in a TL multi-melta immolater that has outflank. I don't know if they are too well liked in general but I love my retributory squad in a TL heavy bolter immo and I equip them with 4 heavy bolters, great for planting on an objective and ruining a squads day. Overall these small squads are good at one thing but they do it very well and are reasonably affordable. Not to mention you get the (IMO) good looking sisters models and immolater tank models and all the AW/6++ and faith abilities. I love my canoness, rosaries and eviscerator make for a fun time swinging away. Dress her up with an artefact cloak, and you got a vicious little martyr. These sugestions I think will do nicely for the mobile maelstrom objective snaggers you're looking for.
it maximizes MSU AND gives you a hard punch in every unit. Arm the immolators to your meta game (heavy flamers or twin linked meltas).... and you're set.
I feel like 7th gave MSU sisters the push we needed
2500 points. I want to play a fluffy close combat oriented list since my order is the Bloody Rose and they are known for it. I want to keep it semi-competitive.
I am good with Sisters and Inquisition codex.
Looking for ideas.
My meta right now is mostly:
Daemons and all their 7th ed shenanigans
Chaos space marines
Tau
Space Marines
Imperial guards.
Voldrak wrote: 2500 points. I want to play a fluffy close combat oriented list since my order is the Bloody Rose and they are known for it. I want to keep it semi-competitive.
I am good with Sisters and Inquisition codex.
Looking for ideas.
My meta right now is mostly:
Daemons and all their 7th ed shenanigans
Chaos space marines
Tau
Space Marines
Imperial guards.
2 Psy-Crusaders filled with DCA/Crus/Priests
1 Inquisitors grenade caddy with Liber
Coteaz
3 Dominions
2 Exorcists
1 Retributor with HB in a Bastion or Firestorm Redoubt
Fill the rest with SOB squads (5 with HF/F in Rhino)
Yeah it's really gotta be MM on the immos with this dex. I used to run HF immos back in Codex: Witch Hunter days, when Immos were fast if I remember correctly. I used the HB quite often during the WD dex, as you got rerolls to hit and wound, which made them pretty tasty. The current digi dex is all about the MM though.
Do the new wound allocation rules make it sensible to give regular Battle Sister squads one meltagun and one heavy flamer, though, rather than flamer/heavy flamer?
SisterSydney wrote: Do the new wound allocation rules make it sensible to give regular Battle Sister squads one meltagun and one heavy flamer, though, rather than flamer/heavy flamer?
Melta/HF was always a good option and continues to be. You get to fire all templates at the same time, so it isn't a big deal to fire two different templates right now though.
But I wouldn't be surprised if an FAQ came out to state template weapons with different names must be resolved separately, so there's be no harm in switching to Melta/HF to be ahead of the curve. This is probably what I'll be doing, especially since vehicles in general got more resilient, so more S8, ap1 shots probably aren't going to go to waste...
Saying that I might start taking combi-flamers on my superiors again if I'm switching the special to the Melta.
Voldrak wrote: 2500 points. I want to play a fluffy close combat oriented list since my order is the Bloody Rose and they are known for it. I want to keep it semi-competitive.
I am good with Sisters and Inquisition codex.
Looking for ideas.
My meta right now is mostly:
Daemons and all their 7th ed shenanigans
Chaos space marines
Tau
Space Marines
Imperial guards.
2 Psy-Crusaders filled with DCA/Crus/Priests
1 Inquisitors grenade caddy with Liber
Coteaz
3 Dominions
2 Exorcists
1 Retributor with HB in a Bastion or Firestorm Redoubt
Fill the rest with SOB squads (5 with HF/F in Rhino)
I don't think that's really a "close combat oriented list" though...
It's a good list, rather competitive, but i'd swap some stuff out.
2 Exorcists
1 Retributor with HB in a Bastion or Firestorm Redoubt
with
1 more Psy-Crusader with Repentia and priest/inquisitor
Penitent engines
With 3 LR the penitents have a better chance (Target priority / use them as support)
SisterSydney wrote: Do the new wound allocation rules make it sensible to give regular Battle Sister squads one meltagun and one heavy flamer, though, rather than flamer/heavy flamer?
Melta/HF was always a good option and continues to be. You get to fire all templates at the same time, so it isn't a big deal to fire two different templates right now though.
I though it was choose a weapon type though?
So bolters first, then heavy bolters.
Which would mean Flamer and Heavy Flamer separately, no?
Shandara wrote: I read that section as that if you have multiples of the same type of Template weapon (i.e. Flamers) then you fire them all at the same time.
Because the shooting rules demand that you declarare which uniquely named weapon you are firing.
It says "If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template type, resolve each shot, one at a time..."
Once the number of hits is determined from that template weapon type then you roll to wound.
Am I missing something (entirely possible!) or is this pretty logical and straightforward?
Shandara wrote: I read that section as that if you have multiples of the same type of Template weapon (i.e. Flamers) then you fire them all at the same time.
Because the shooting rules demand that you declarare which uniquely named weapon you are firing.
It says "If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template type, resolve each shot, one at a time..."
Once the number of hits is determined from that template weapon type then you roll to wound.
Am I missing something (entirely possible!) or is this pretty logical and straightforward?
As the previous poster said, the shooting rules require:
1) choose a unique weapon name
2) fire all of them
3) repeat
The Template rules merely state that if you are firing more than one template weapon at the same time (say you are firing 3 standard Flamers) that you resolve them at the same time. I don't read it as permission to ignore the shooting requirement. But that's for YMDCC, I think.
That's what i thought, so HF and Flamer would be done separately... Now because we're in Tactics, what would you recommend?
I'd say start with Flamer, then HF, because the lower chance of killing would go 1st, and leave targets for the second (assuming both at the same distance, same coverage, etc)
That's what i thought, so HF and Flamer would be done separately... Now because we're in Tactics, what would you recommend?
I'd say start with Flamer, then HF, because the lower chance of killing would go 1st, and leave targets for the second (assuming both at the same distance, same coverage, etc)
I wouldn't take F/HF. I'd take melta/Hf and a combo flamer on the superior, which I would save for overwatch.
Shandara wrote: I read that section as that if you have multiples of the same type of Template weapon (i.e. Flamers) then you fire them all at the same time.
Because the shooting rules demand that you declarare which uniquely named weapon you are firing.
It says "If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template type, resolve each shot, one at a time..."
Once the number of hits is determined from that template weapon type then you roll to wound.
Am I missing something (entirely possible!) or is this pretty logical and straightforward?
As the previous poster said, the shooting rules require:
1) choose a unique weapon name
2) fire all of them
3) repeat
The Template rules merely state that if you are firing more than one template weapon at the same time (say you are firing 3 standard Flamers) that you resolve them at the same time. I don't read it as permission to ignore the shooting requirement. But that's for YMDCC, I think.
It's all rather wonky, really. If the template weapons go separately, why bother mentioning it in the template rules since that is obviously how it works with shooting rules alone. All weapons with the same name fire at the same time, count hits, roll wounds, etc.
In the Template section, it says all template weapons fire at once. Going with the old specific rules trump general rules, does this mean template weapons go at the same time no matter what their name? If so, why didn't they mention that this is an exception? Do rules later in the book trump those up front? Honestly I could not even guess what RAI or RAW is supposed to be. I plan to err on the side of caution and go with separately with heavy and normal until I hear otherwise.
On the math side, against marines 2 flamers fired at the same time are still slightly under a HvyFlamer/flamer set up that fires separately. I think the extra AP on one template is worth it for me. In the end the differences between mixed or same firing separately or simultaneously are too small to matter.
Dominoris wrote: It's all rather wonky, really. If the template weapons go separately, why bother mentioning it in the template rules since that is obviously how it works with shooting rules alone. All weapons with the same name fire at the same time, count hits, roll wounds, etc.
In the Template section, it says all template weapons fire at once. Going with the old specific rules trump general rules, does this mean template weapons go at the same time no matter what their name? If so, why didn't they mention that this is an exception? Do rules later in the book trump those up front? Honestly I could not even guess what RAI or RAW is supposed to be. I plan to err on the side of caution and go with separately with heavy and normal until I hear otherwise.
On the math side, against marines 2 flamers fired at the same time are still slightly under a HvyFlamer/flamer set up that fires separately. I think the extra AP on one template is worth it for me. In the end the differences between mixed or same firing separately or simultaneously are too small to matter.
My best answer to this is: the ork flamer squad. They can have 10 flamers in a 10-man squad. I'm pretty sure that that is the best example of "all templates" =p
So for Sisters, what is the best Anti-Air option with all the new things 7th edition opend up? Is Aegis with Quad and a HB Retributor Squad sitting on the line still the best option?
If one were to want to stay kind of fluffy and choose between AM, GKnights, or Inquisition what would be the best option for each faction for anti air if you wanted to maximize the sisters you could field.?
Shandara wrote: I read that section as that if you have multiples of the same type of Template weapon (i.e. Flamers) then you fire them all at the same time.
Because the shooting rules demand that you declarare which uniquely named weapon you are firing.
It says "If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template type, resolve each shot, one at a time..."
Once the number of hits is determined from that template weapon type then you roll to wound.
Am I missing something (entirely possible!) or is this pretty logical and straightforward?
As the previous poster said, the shooting rules require:
1) choose a unique weapon name
2) fire all of them
3) repeat
The Template rules merely state that if you are firing more than one template weapon at the same time (say you are firing 3 standard Flamers) that you resolve them at the same time. I don't read it as permission to ignore the shooting requirement. But that's for YMDCC, I think.
Eh, I see it the other way. Special Rules override General Rules. Otherwise how would something like Gunslinger, for example, ever work? The general rule for shooting says a model can only fire one weapon in the shooting phase. Gunslinger lets a model fire two pistol weapons. Therefore the Gunslinger special rule overrides the General Shooting rule of only being able to fire one weapon.
I see it the same way for Templates. The General Rule for Shooting is now resolve one weapon type fully at a time. The Template Special Rule overrides this by allowing you to fire all Template Weapons at once. Flamers and Heavy Flamers are both Template weapons, and therefore are fired at the same time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fixed2bbroken wrote: So for Sisters, what is the best Anti-Air option with all the new things 7th edition opend up? Is Aegis with Quad and a HB Retributor Squad sitting on the line still the best option?
If one were to want to stay kind of fluffy and choose between AM, GKnights, or Inquisition what would be the best option for each faction for anti air if you wanted to maximize the sisters you could field.?
Thanks in Advance.
The Avenger Strike Fighter is still the best 'pure' Sisters option (assuming you can do Forgeworld). Otherwise take an Allied Detachment of Astra Militarum with a Fast Attack Vendetta - since Battle Brothers can now ride in other factions transports, stick a Dominion Squad with 4 Meltas in it and outflank. That's 3 Twin-Linked Lascannons on the Vendetta, which can drop off a 4 Melta Squad of Dominions. Solid Anti-Air in the Vendetta (also give it the Heavy Bolter sponsons) which also has the benefit of being a very nasty Anti-Tank option. You'll also have the benefit of making Imperial Guard players jealous, since the nerf to the Vendetta's transport size really limited their options. Sisters having 5 woman squads are perfect though
You will need to pay the 'tax' of either a CCS or Lord Commissar plus Veterans, but thats not entirely bad. You can give them a Chimera so they keep up with the Sisters in Immos or Rhinos (plus Vets can take Plasma which is nice) or you could give them a Lascannon or Autocannon so they can hang back and plink things.
Eh, I see it the other way. Special Rules override General Rules. Otherwise how would something like Gunslinger, for example, ever work? The general rule for shooting says a model can only fire one weapon in the shooting phase. Gunslinger lets a model fire two pistol weapons. Therefore the Gunslinger special rule overrides the General Shooting rule of only being able to fire one weapon.
I see it the same way for Templates. The General Rule for Shooting is now resolve one weapon type fully at a time. The Template Special Rule overrides this by allowing you to fire all Template Weapons at once. Flamers and Heavy Flamers are both Template weapons, and therefore are fired at the same time.
But I think some of us don't see a conflict here that needs an override. "If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template" never gets triggered if your template weapons have different names because you are not firing more than one shot (this part would apply if you took 4 flamer doms, they would all fire at the same time).
I know BB allows you to embark on allied transports now, but is there any restrictions to them starting in the transports in reserve or can you only board 'in game'?
evildrcheese wrote: I know BB allows you to embark on allied transports now, but is there any restrictions to them starting in the transports in reserve or can you only board 'in game'?
D
Only P82 and dedicated Transports rules has restrictions on who's inside. Any standard slot transport (Land Raider, Valkyrie, etc) if free to carry what you want.
I read up on the Vendetta and although it seems sweet its a huge investment (both points and $) especially with the required hq choice. Are there any other options?
There's always the Icarus for the defence line, higher strength and ap2 but only one shot...you could have a naked canoness man it for BS5 to make it a bit more reliable. Or Celestine at BS7 (although I think most of us agree that'd be a waste of a saint.
evildrcheese wrote: There's always the Icarus for the defence line, higher strength and ap2 but only one shot...you could have a naked canoness man it for BS5 to make it a bit more reliable. Or Celestine at BS7 (although I think most of us agree that'd be a waste of a saint.
D
I have never had good luck with the lascannon, even when the Canoness is firing.
It is a good idea, though. You could in theory do the same thing with Cypher, but I have more fun having him outflank with Death Cult Assassins.
Which, while entertaining, is pretty pointless. Freaks the MEQ players out though .
The quad gun was pretty much essential in 6th Ed IMO - not sure about 7th as its no longer as good and also there are now more Ally alternatives............
Best AA choices for the Sisters army are definitely the Avenger and just redirecting your many, many twin-linked multimeltas.
For a CC Sisters army, I'd build it around a core of Priests + Sororitas Command Squad.
An army list something like;
+++ New Roster (1500pts) +++
+++ 1500pt Sisters of Battle (eCodex) Roster (Primary Detachment)) +++
Selections:
Sisters of Battle (eCodex) (Primary Detachment) Selections:
+ HQ +
Canoness (Inferno Pistol, Power Weapon, Rosarius, Mantle of Ophelia)
Sororitas Command Squad (Hospitaller, Sacred Banner of the Orders Militant, 3x Power Weapon, 3 Priests, Rhino (Storm Bolter, Dozer Blade))
Uriah Jacobus (3 Crusaders, 7 Death Cultists, Priest)
5 Priests (Bolt Pistol, Power Maul, attached to squads as described)
+ Troops +
5 Battle Sisters (Flamer, MM Immolator)
5 Battle Sisters (Flamer, MM Immolator)
+ Fast Attack +
10 Dominions (4 Meltaguns, Power Weapon, MM Immolator, Priest)
+ Heavy Support +
Penitent Engine
Why Dominions rather than Celestians? They're more widely useful, and with the addition of a Priest and and standing in range of the Sacred Standard, they only miss out on the +1 Strength 1/game.
Bastion is still a good choice with Quadgun. Put Rets inside and they can fire 1-2 extra HB and the Quad-gun. Rending quad is still good.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Furyou Miko wrote: Best AA choices for the Sisters army are definitely the Avenger and just redirecting your many, many twin-linked multimeltas.
For a CC Sisters army, I'd build it around a core of Priests + Sororitas Command Squad.
An army list something like;
+++ New Roster (1500pts) +++
+++ 1500pt Sisters of Battle (eCodex) Roster (Primary Detachment)) +++
Selections:
Sisters of Battle (eCodex) (Primary Detachment) Selections:
+ HQ +
Canoness (Inferno Pistol, Power Weapon, Rosarius, Mantle of Ophelia)
Sororitas Command Squad (Hospitaller, Sacred Banner of the Orders Militant, 3x Power Weapon, 3 Priests, Rhino (Storm Bolter, Dozer Blade))
Uriah Jacobus (3 Crusaders, 7 Death Cultists, Priest)
5 Priests (Bolt Pistol, Power Maul, attached to squads as described)
+ Troops +
5 Battle Sisters (Flamer, MM Immolator)
5 Battle Sisters (Flamer, MM Immolator)
+ Fast Attack +
10 Dominions (4 Meltaguns, Power Weapon, MM Immolator, Priest)
+ Heavy Support +
Penitent Engine
Why Dominions rather than Celestians? They're more widely useful, and with the addition of a Priest and and standing in range of the Sacred Standard, they only miss out on the +1 Strength 1/game.
I mean, you can do it, but it is not very good. Yuck. I look at this list and try to figure out where the rest of your points are.
Would it be considered a waste of points to put a priest in a min squad of sisters (5 sisters, F/HF, in a MM Immolator) just to take advantage of the zealot rules from the priest? I like the idea that if the min squad gets a little shot up they won't turn and run or would the pts be better spent somewhere else?
Points probably better spent elsewhere. Consider the odds of the squad being shot up enough to break, but not so much that they're pointless to save, and that they actually fail the check. You'd be better off saving the priests' points and buying another squad.
With the small 5-man Squads in immolators, i think the main tactic is to jump out and serve a purpose immediately, ie: Jump out onto an objective and hold or jump out and deal damage.
If it's dealing damage, then firepower is the most important, or do you think that squad with priest will deal much more damage in the assault phase? Then enemy's turn and i'm sure that squad is gone.
If it's for securing objectives, and the enemy maneuvers a Close Combat Squad to charge you, then i would think it's a squad that gets the job done.
In both cases, the priest would not really have any use at all, apart from the Securing Case, and the enemy charges you with 5 marines or something (which would be quite rare imo)
I would agree with most of that except the jump out part. You don't want to leave your vehicle unless absolutely necessary. You can score from inside it anyways.
"She who bails, fails."
and the corollaries:
"Leave the Rhino? How 'bout hell no?"
"Faith may be my shield, but this vehicle is my armor."
"The meek may inherit the earth, but we control the bucket seats."
I am aware of that guys, but in the request they are in an Immolator: No fire points
So unless it's a standard 5-girl with no weapons or anything - which would stay inside no matter what - then to make use of any weaponry (even before we get to the priest) then you'd have to have aReason to jump out, hence above.
I am aware of that guys, but in the request they are in an Immolator: No fire points
So unless it's a standard 5-girl with no weapons or anything - which would stay inside no matter what - then to make use of any weaponry (even before we get to the priest) then you'd have to have aReason to jump out, hence above.
Let me update my previous statement:
"Leave the immo? How 'bout hell no?"
Almost never leave it. T3 troops die too quick in the open.
This is also why I take Rhinos and not Immos for my BSS.
Recently I ran 6 immolaters (5 girl melta/heavy flamer), 3 dominion immolaters (5 girl, 4 melta) 3 Exorcists, and a cannoness (taking condemnor boltguns on all available *since no faq now*)
Managed to splode a knight first turn and pretty much wiped the board in 2 of 3 games...
Lost my butt to a tranny C'tan though... That guys a beast.
KP mission ended on turn 6. I had an exorcist and 1 sister tank left... he was down 2 wraiths and 4 wounds gone from the tranny.
pretre wrote: Condemnor was updated in the book itself to the same wording as the GK codex.
Good job either way though.
Guess that's finally a reason to buy the damn digital thing instead of the pdf. (no matter, there was only 1 psycher at the store anyway... lol)
Thanks... It was a lot more fun than 6th sisters.
Yeah no point leaving the MM either. An 11/11/10 vehicle with a MM sat on top might as well just have a big target hovering above it. If you're using small BSS squads for objectives then sit them in the immo on the the objective firing the MM at anything darft enough to get in range, once the Immo goes pop, try and hold the objective with the girls utilising their special weapons to deter anything soft so your opponent has to commit resouces to take the objective.
BlackTalos wrote: But why no longer? Non-fearless can still run, and at worst, you loose a Rhino/Immo that's had it's worth?
At the time, TS was MUCH better. You could tank shock/ram at max speed and disembark. You could block people from regrouping by being within 6", etc. so on.
It was a valid way to take people off the board, in other words, rather than a happy accident.
Finally got around to uploading some pictures of the Order of our Lady Tyche Fortuna,
Order of Our Martyred Lady but Green instead of the usual Red Robes. Split into Card Suits too :p
BlackTalos wrote: Finally got around to uploading some pictures of the Order of our Lady Tyche Fortuna,
Order of Our Martyred Lady but Green instead of the usual Red Robes. Split into Card Suits too :p
Sisters are looking really good in 7th with maelstrom missions. Lot of fairly cheap, fast and resilient MSU to claim objectives [priests for fearless are a must, and make them competitive in CC], with Exorcists to claim VPs for taking out enemy tanks.
Plus, high AV gunlines [which I always struggle against] can't castle up any more if they want to gain VPs.
Throw in a Warhound Titan to take out high AV targets and Sisters are looking very competitive.
A Warhound Titan? That's a little excessive isn't it? Especially when Sisters can bring so much melta to the table. A Knight titan would be a bit more reasonable, both on the table and in the wallet.
pretre wrote: "She who bails, fails."
and the corollaries:
"Leave the Rhino? How 'bout hell no?"
"Faith may be my shield, but this vehicle is my armor."
"The meek may inherit the earth, but we control the bucket seats."
I'm also reminded of the old US mech infantry line, "Death Before Dismount."
Paimon wrote: A Warhound Titan? That's a little excessive isn't it? Especially when Sisters can bring so much melta to the table. A Knight titan would be a bit more reasonable, both on the table and in the wallet.
Love being able to use my Warhound - go big or go home! Having said that it's a big risk so maybe a knight might be more cost effective. Anyway, I'll continue to use the Warhound whenever possible. Really like that it's now in the core rules, so it's down to my opponent to come up with a really good reason why he won't play it, rather than for me to come up with a reason why he should.
Even without SHs Sisters are looking good in maelstrom.
Paimon wrote: A Warhound Titan? That's a little excessive isn't it? Especially when Sisters can bring so much melta to the table. A Knight titan would be a bit more reasonable, both on the table and in the wallet.
Love being able to use my Warhound - go big or go home! Having said that it's a big risk so maybe a knight might be more cost effective. Anyway, I'll continue to use the Warhound whenever possible. Really like that it's now in the core rules, so it's down to my opponent to come up with a really good reason why he won't play it, rather than for me to come up with a reason why he should.
Even without SHs Sisters are looking good in maelstrom.
What is your preferred load-out if you have multiple, or the one you have?
What is your preferred load-out if you have multiple, or the one you have?
List I took against a Guard army, and won really comfortably [maelstrom mission], was;
Uriah + Ordo Xenos Inq ML1 + 16 BS with flamer, heavy flamer
3 x 5 BS in multi-melta immolators, each with a priest
2 x Exorcist
Avenger Strike Fighter
Warhound Titan
Uriah blob moved up behind the titan to get cover saves and provide support if necessary, with the Inq casting prescience on the titan every turn [this meant I didn't miss with any of my shots the whole game]. 3 BS squads zoomed up to claim objectives first turn and then went on to threaten his objectives later on [priest makes them pretty handy in CC]. Blob soaked up a load of shots but kept coming because of fearless from the priest [priests are a must for me]. Game ended 10-4, although he was unlucky not to take down the Titan on the second turn when all of his big guns came in from reserves together.
I haven't got a knight titan, but I suppose this could also work, although it wouldn't really solve the problem of popping AV14 front armour, which is where the big boy comes in. I felt like I had all the tools necessary to deal with Guard, which is a first!
Let me rephrase it: what weapons does your warhound titan have?
Ah sorry. Turbo laser and plasma blastgun is my loadout. While the other two weapons can be great against horde, they're a little too situational for my liking.
Let me rephrase it: what weapons does your warhound titan have?
Ah sorry. Turbo laser and plasma blastgun is my loadout. While the other two weapons can be great against horde, they're a little too situational for my liking.
Sorry for not specifying... So you don't own/ have not tried the other 2?
And looking it up it does seem like the best choice, yeah.
You lost a Titan on turn one? [cocks bolter] Please report for immediate court martial. Depending on our findings, you may be shot, burned, tortured, bound in a Penitent Engine, or required to pay the Adeptus Mechanicus the full cost of a replacement Titan out of your wages for the next 10,000 years.....
Brother Michael wrote: I've run a mega-bolter/plasma blastgun warhound once, but as it blew up in the first turn I can't really share my experiences on how that went
Did it hit the shelf after that?
It's only seen 1 game?
Brother Michael wrote: I've run a mega-bolter/plasma blastgun warhound once, but as it blew up in the first turn I can't really share my experiences on how that went
Did it hit the shelf after that?
It's only seen 1 game?
I think Sydney's right =D
Haha, in my first runout mine got taken out on turn 3 by a charging stompa. My fault for not reading the rules properly, didn't reaiise it had agile, and I was only taking one shot with the double barrelled turbo laser Losing yours turn one must have hurt though
Having said that I've only gotten to use it twice, nearly everyone in my gaming group refuses to play against it. If I could I'd take the big boy every game, really reduces my turn time!
I'm thinking of running a cheap-ish Inquisitorial Detachment along with my Sisters to provide some long-ish range, low AP firepower to complement the Exorcists:
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in Carapace Armour, with Hellrifle (36", S6, AP3, Heavy 1, Rending) - 40pts
Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband with 3 Plasma Cannon Servitors - 60pts
Chimera with Psybolt Ammo - 60pts.
160pts total
The idea is to load everyone inside the Chimera, and have it sit in some cover somewhere if possible and shoot anything within 36". Every weapon has 36", including the Multi-laser and Heavy Bolter on the Chimera and the Psybolt Ammo makes the Heavy Bolter S6. Codex: Inquisition Chimera's still have the 5 Model Fire Point, so everyone can shoot out. Alternatively, I can drop the Chimera and just have the Inquisitor+Servitors hide in some cover and plink away, which only comes to 100pts.
I'm normally running 2 Exorcists and a Retributor Squad with HB, a couple of BSS in Rhinos, Melta Dominions in Immos which either outflank or scout as I see fit and some Seraphim with Celestine.
tyrannosaurus wrote: Haha, in my first runout mine got taken out on turn 3 by a charging stompa. My fault for not reading the rules properly, didn't reaiise it had agile, and I was only taking one shot with the double barrelled turbo laser Losing yours turn one must have hurt though
Having said that I've only gotten to use it twice, nearly everyone in my gaming group refuses to play against it. If I could I'd take the big boy every game, really reduces my turn time!
In our local group, a Chaos player has a Reaver Titan with 3 Laser blasters (9 Lasers!) which pretty much everyone tries to play, at least once.
6th ed it would be: Can you survive past Turn 2 Challenge.
7th Ed with Cover saves and Invuns, i don't think it's come out yet, but i'm sure turn 3 is much more feasible...
In 7th Ed though, they would need a GOOD reason for you not to play it... They have been nerfed and fully legal now...
GoonBandito wrote: I'm thinking of running a cheap-ish Inquisitorial Detachment along with my Sisters to provide some long-ish range, low AP firepower to complement the Exorcists:
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in Carapace Armour, with Hellrifle (36", S6, AP3, Heavy 1, Rending) - 40pts
Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband with 3 Plasma Cannon Servitors - 60pts
Chimera with Psybolt Ammo - 60pts.
160pts total
The idea is to load everyone inside the Chimera, and have it sit in some cover somewhere if possible and shoot anything within 36". Every weapon has 36", including the Multi-laser and Heavy Bolter on the Chimera and the Psybolt Ammo makes the Heavy Bolter S6. Codex: Inquisition Chimera's still have the 5 Model Fire Point, so everyone can shoot out. Alternatively, I can drop the Chimera and just have the Inquisitor+Servitors hide in some cover and plink away, which only comes to 100pts.
I'm normally running 2 Exorcists and a Retributor Squad with HB, a couple of BSS in Rhinos, Melta Dominions in Immos which either outflank or scout as I see fit and some Seraphim with Celestine.
Thoughts?
That seems like a very good plan.
Points of note though:
- Inq Chimera might get updated to match soon, if not already (checked the Dex?) so just check is all (i'd like to know)
- Any benefit in adding a monkey or 2? I know they boost ranged teams and offer flexibility (by more points...)
- your normal run with this is very ranged: Celestine & retinue worth it? They are very squishy (even with the 2+) so Blob with priest and canoness/jacobus might save you a lot of points to do this new idea.
- another rules thing: i'm not familiar with Chimera firepoints, but is it no 2-3 a side with 1 more cupola one? IE max 4 shooting per side (whichever facing you're on)?
BlackTalos wrote: Finally got around to uploading some pictures of the Order of our Lady Tyche Fortuna,
Order of Our Martyred Lady but Green instead of the usual Red Robes. Split into Card Suits too :p
GoonBandito wrote: I'm thinking of running a cheap-ish Inquisitorial Detachment along with my Sisters to provide some long-ish range, low AP firepower to complement the Exorcists:
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in Carapace Armour, with Hellrifle (36", S6, AP3, Heavy 1, Rending) - 40pts
Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband with 3 Plasma Cannon Servitors - 60pts
Chimera with Psybolt Ammo - 60pts.
160pts total
The idea is to load everyone inside the Chimera, and have it sit in some cover somewhere if possible and shoot anything within 36". Every weapon has 36", including the Multi-laser and Heavy Bolter on the Chimera and the Psybolt Ammo makes the Heavy Bolter S6. Codex: Inquisition Chimera's still have the 5 Model Fire Point, so everyone can shoot out. Alternatively, I can drop the Chimera and just have the Inquisitor+Servitors hide in some cover and plink away, which only comes to 100pts.
I'm normally running 2 Exorcists and a Retributor Squad with HB, a couple of BSS in Rhinos, Melta Dominions in Immos which either outflank or scout as I see fit and some Seraphim with Celestine.
Thoughts?
That seems like a very good plan.
Points of note though:
- Inq Chimera might get updated to match soon, if not already (checked the Dex?) so just check is all (i'd like to know)
- Any benefit in adding a monkey or 2? I know they boost ranged teams and offer flexibility (by more points...)
- your normal run with this is very ranged: Celestine & retinue worth it? They are very squishy (even with the 2+) so Blob with priest and canoness/jacobus might save you a lot of points to do this new idea.
- another rules thing: i'm not familiar with Chimera firepoints, but is it no 2-3 a side with 1 more cupola one? IE max 4 shooting per side (whichever facing you're on)?
Hmm, good point on the Chimera. The Inquisition codex hasn't been updated yet (I would assume it's sitting right next to the Adepta Sororitas codex in that regard...), so it's fine atm. If it does get updated, I guess I could swap to Grey Knights codex since they have the same Inquisitorial stuff. At least until Grey Knights get an update (also, fk Grey Knights). As for the fire points, it's just "5 Models can fire from the Top Hatch".
Monkeys are hilarious, this is true, but they are kinda pricey (35pts) for a BS3 Lascannon, Multimelta or Heavy Flamer shot. Their upgrade for the unit table is also kinda of sucky, since a range increase on non-template weapons, Rending, Armour Saves +1 or 5++ Invuln Saves are all somewhat useless for the unit I'm looking at.
I like running Celestine+Seraphim Yeah they are kinda squishy, but I like to Deep Strike them into backlines and pile on the flamer wounds with Shred. That usually works reasonably well for me. If anything, I'd probably drop the Retributor Squad for it or simply just work it into a higher point game.
GoonBandito wrote: Hmm, good point on the Chimera. The Inquisition codex hasn't been updated yet (I would assume it's sitting right next to the Adepta Sororitas codex in that regard...), so it's fine atm. If it does get updated, I guess I could swap to Grey Knights codex since they have the same Inquisitorial stuff. At least until Grey Knights get an update (also, fk Grey Knights). As for the fire points, it's just "5 Models can fire from the Top Hatch".
Monkeys are hilarious, this is true, but they are kinda pricey (35pts) for a BS3 Lascannon, Multimelta or Heavy Flamer shot. Their upgrade for the unit table is also kinda of sucky, since a range increase on non-template weapons, Rending, Armour Saves +1 or 5++ Invuln Saves are all somewhat useless for the unit I'm looking at.
I like running Celestine+Seraphim Yeah they are kinda squishy, but I like to Deep Strike them into backlines and pile on the flamer wounds with Shred. That usually works reasonably well for me. If anything, I'd probably drop the Retributor Squad for it or simply just work it into a higher point game.
Yeah the Monkeys are good for anything BUT plasma servitors, but i was just suggesting along the lines of: Las for some help tank-busting at that range, and flamer in case anything does get close to that unit, with their skills boosting the Inquisitor. Pricey will always be true for them.
I usually have Celestine drawing fire and flying up the board, but i will try out the DS in further games. I will also think about the chimera, 5 "360" fire points is definitely a bonus!
BlackTalos wrote: Yeah the Monkeys are good for anything BUT plasma servitors, but i was just suggesting along the lines of: Las for some help tank-busting at that range, and flamer in case anything does get close to that unit, with their skills boosting the Inquisitor. Pricey will always be true for them.
I'm not sure why you say Jokaero aren't good for PC servitors, because they seem pretty great to me (other than the cost, of course).
The +1 armour save gives them a 3+, the invulnerable is nice, and the 12" increase only doesn't apply to 'template' weapons (which are not blast weapons) so you get 48" plasma cannons. The only one that isn't terribly helpful is the rending ammunition—since they're already AP2—although it does give you the ability to penetrate AV 13/14 since you gain the extra D3 if you roll a six.
I take two with my Coteaz squad and they've been great every time.
BlackTalos wrote: Yeah the Monkeys are good for anything BUT plasma servitors, but i was just suggesting along the lines of: Las for some help tank-busting at that range, and flamer in case anything does get close to that unit, with their skills boosting the Inquisitor. Pricey will always be true for them.
I'm not sure why you say Jokaero aren't good for PC servitors, because they seem pretty great to me (other than the cost, of course).
The +1 armour save gives them a 3+, the invulnerable is nice, and the 12" increase only doesn't apply to 'template' weapons (which are not blast weapons) so you get 48" plasma cannons. The only one that isn't terribly helpful is the rending ammunition—since they're already AP2—although it does give you the ability to penetrate AV 13/14 since you gain the extra D3 if you roll a six.
I take two with my Coteaz squad and they've been great every time.
DoW
Oh, you're right with the extra range thing. For some reason I was thinking it didn't apply to the plasma cannons because they were blast. But my aim was to sit the squad in the Chimera for AV12 protection which is why I'm not really feeling the better save upgrades. I also want to keep the unit fairly cheap, and as we all agree Monkeys are kinda of expensive. Still, they are freaking monkeys so that is definitely in their favour lol
I just have 2 of the Orange things and want to play them =P
Your set-up was what i wanted to go for, ie cheap ranged Inquisitor squad.
- Psyker so phase 2 of the game is not just Sisters praying for mercy
- long-range firepower that is not a boltgun or a S8 AP1 weapon
- access to Land Raider Crusader so that my repentia squad can deal real damage
And you are right: "All non-template shooting weapons"
So 48" Plasma Cannons...., i'm happy with that lol Also 48" Hellrifle, but it's already got rending, and Rending on plasma would only be good for vehicles, which your exorcists do anyway...
BlackTalos wrote: access to Land Raider Crusader so that my repentia squad can deal real damage
You've tried that out? How well does it work now in 7th?
I don't have any repentia, and I've always been a bit iffy on them. A squad of I1 CC models with no real way to keep themselves alive until they get to I1 seems pretty brutal to me. Demons are my other army, and even their 5++ is simply not enough imo. Demonettes are great because they strike at I5 with 3 rending attacks on the charge. If they had to strike at I1, even if it was with a S x2, AP1 weapon, I'm not sure how highly I'd be rating them.
On the topic of Inquisition though, just while I was looking at that little Plasma Squad, I was also thinking about the viability of a Celestian + Friends CC squad.
Canoness: Eviscerator, Inferno Pistol, Mantle of Ophelia, Rosarius - 150pts
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor: ML1, Force Sword, Bolt Pistol, Power Armour, Rad Grenades - 78pts
Ministorum Priest: Eviscerator, Bolt Pistol, Litanies of the Faith - 71pts
Celestian Squad: Celestian Superior with Power Sword/Bolt Pistol. 5 Celestians with Flamer/Meltagun. Sororitas Rhino with Dozer Blades - 159pts
514pts total.
It's pricey (but only about 100pts more than a Repentia+Land Raider, not including the cost of the Inquisitor+Henchmen that you need to get the Land Raider), but I'm thinking it might do alright for itself. Especially since Sisters aren't exactly known for their CC threat. Between the Canoness and Priests you have 10 S6, AP1 I1 attacks on the charge. The Celestian Superior and Inquisitor add another 7 AP3 I3 attacks on the charge. The Celestian's throw in another 15 attacks when charging. Priests will be auto-passing the War Hymns for Reroll Armour/Invuln saves as well To Wounds. Everyone has either a 3+ and/or 4++ save. Zealot from the Priests gives Hatred, meaning Rerolls to Hit in the first round as well as Fearless (also means the loss of the Cannoness' Act of Faith is not a problem). ML1 from the Inquisitor still gives the old Hammerhand, which is S+1 and thus again making up (and then some, since you can cast it every turn) for the loss of the Celestian's Furious Charge Act of Faith. The Inquisitor also gets the funky grenades - Rad Grenades put the enemy at -1 Toughness on a phase you charge or get charged and psyk-out grenades will make any Psykers go at I1. And the Squad still has a decent amount of shooting to do something the turn they disembark.
Yeah, I don't have any DCA though :( Got lots of Sister models though, which was why I was trying to think of a way to get them to work in CC for some novelty.
Repentia have that 3+ FnP power for a turn (which works against overwatch fire too I believe) and a 6+*.
That's generally enough to let them put some serious hurt on most things, as you only need 1-4 to wreck basically any vehicle (even a titan), or decimate an elite infantry unit, once.
Each unit is good for 1 blending basically. Putting it in a Land Raider may make it good for 2.
Other units are more durable, and put out a more sustained damage output, but Repentia are an immediate threat that the enemy either has to focus a fair amount of resources on, or watch whatever you've pointed them at go away.
Yeah, i would definitely go with the battle conclave instead, you don't need the shots/flamer-meltagun.
As for repentia in Land Raider, never tried it, mainly because i don't have a Land raider yet...
But it would be for similar reasons than Ovion:
Ovion wrote: Repentia have that 3+ FnP power for a turn (which works against overwatch fire too I believe) and a 6+*.
That's generally enough to let them put some serious hurt on most things, as you only need 1-4 to wreck basically any vehicle (even a titan), or decimate an elite infantry unit, once.
Other units are more durable, and put out a more sustained damage output, but Repentia are an immediate threat that the enemy either has to focus a fair amount of resources on, or watch whatever you've pointed them at go away.
In the few games where i've played them inside their trusty Rhino, all i would have to do is drive up and disembark, watch the enemy fire at the Rhino half heartily thinking "Meh, chainswords"
Then they move and charge the 1 main unit he was always proud of.
Then they blend.
Then the enemy realises what they do, but they're already within his midst: some i've faced ignore them and try to finish the rest of my army (they get blended). Others pour everything at them, giving me an entire turn to do as i please.
Most games after that, me driving the Rhino around is enough for the other player to move an entire flank away from it...
Simply park behind Bastions, or other such terrain and make sure their lascannons can't LoS, all other unit WILL run away
So far the "i don't know/care about naked chainswords" has cost:
1 fully upgraded, full Wound Riptide
4 Grav Centurions with Tigurus
Necron Lord with 10 Warriors
All three opponents now know what an Eviscerator actually is!
yeah I saw a post on BoLS saying they were gunna update it within the week but didn't say what changes were being made. probably just some wording fixes for 7th. Will look through mine later tonight.
Hello everyone I just recently got into sisters (couple of months) nd read a bunch of stuff on them. At my local GW i saw the BA sanguinary guard and the wings and thought "those will look killer on my seraphim" but i didn't wanna just shell out that much just for some asetic wings. But a BA player talked to me about them and i fliped theough the BA codex and saw that they could bereally useful allies for sisters. Namely a huge seraphim buff and a decent fire magnet.
With commander Dante the SG become troops toss dante in with a squad of seraphim w/ celestine and a group of SG for a follow up hammer and anvil.
Dante in the seraphim squad makes them loose their AOF sure but i think what he brings makes up for that. First off and the biggest is his no scatter of deepstriking. now our seraphim drop exactly where they want and either roast a squad alive with 4 hand flamers and 1 heavy flamer from celstine plus a melta shot from dante have the SG drop on the other side of the unit you want to destroy for a messy angel sandwich where your opponent has to make the choice of the seraphim squad that is protected by 2+ 4++ (have celestine and dante sandwich the seraphim to give them cover on two fronts, have celstine infront near the squad geting roasted and dante in the back of on the side where you are worried incoming fire would come from). and jet pack pusdo-termies that are going to tear w/e unit a new one next turn after being shot up. interceptor can be a problem but each interceptor weapon can only fire at a single unit so they have to divide their fire power between two units or focus one one to try and wipe it out with both units having some decent saves to protect them. (i also just noticed that if it has skyfire and interceptor it will only fire snap shots against them). Dante also can cripple one IC (their other player's warlord if they arn't doing unbond stuff) and wipe that unit (and hopefuly the warlord) that just already lost a wound for free from dante.
The other way of using them is equip them with those short range inferno pistols and deep strike behind a vehicle and light it up with 5 melta shots at PBR. Go tank hunting from there using Celestine, dante, the non-infro seraphim as meat shields in that order for as long lasting group as possile (which most likely won't last long just from them dropping behind your opponent's biggest vehicle and turning it into dust).
I lament that The Sanguire got errataed to only effect BA units now and i only wished that he was an IC to join with them to create an angel inferno of death vs pretty much any CQC unit on the charge after shooting.
A bit expensive point wise for such a tactic if you wanna go battle-forged but i feel it is a pretty cheap alternative to fill out some points but still wanna save some $$ on another seraphim squad.
Not sure if this has already been brought up before now but with 7th being a new thing wanted to see what other sister players thought about it.
I play Sisters and BA and I keep twirling my moustache at the prospect of combing my two armies.
If I were going to join Dante with Seraphim I'd give the Seraphim the melts pistols, as mentioned Dante's precision DS is an ideal platform for Melta delivery. That and losing the Shred on the hand flamers makes their usefulness questionable. Do you have to deploy Dante first for the precision DS? If not make sure he's nearest the exploding vehicle to tank the explosion on his 2+, remember the majority T of the unit will be 3 too. Dante also give ATSKNF to the squad, which is nifty.
evildrcheese wrote: I play Sisters and BA and I keep twirling my moustache at the prospect of combing my two armies.
If I were going to join Dante with Seraphim I'd give the Seraphim the melts pistols, as mentioned Dante's precision DS is an ideal platform for Melta delivery. That and losing the Shred on the hand flamers makes their usefulness questionable. Do you have to deploy Dante first for the precision DS? If not make sure he's nearest the exploding vehicle to tank the explosion on his 2+, remember the majority T of the unit will be 3 too. Dante also give ATSKNF to the squad, which is nifty.
D
The usefulness on the handflamers isn't to bad still since you have 5 flame templates tightly covering a unit (two twin hand flamers and celestine if you have her with them) still is a bucket of wounds sines the hand flamers are still str 4. As for the precision DS no you don't have to drop him first just have him in a unit with jetpacks. the majority T 3 can be a bit tricky which is why you have celestine who is t3 already take the first shots with her 2+/4++ because if she does die she has a solid chance standing back up and dusting herself off.
Edit: just thought of this little sillyness. have celestine with the SG and dante with the seraphim. Celestine is now t4 (with dante being t3 now sadly) and is no longer as scared to duke it out in combat (and has arguably better cqc group) and dante and the seraphim go around melt vehicles.
milkboy wrote: Celestine is T4? Was something changed in the codex? Mine says T3 but I haven't gotten the updated one yet.
He's talking about Majority Toughness. Seraphim with inferno pistols+Dante are precision DS with majority Toughness 3, and Celestine with Sanguinary Guard are majority Toughness 4. Sounds good, really.
The usefulness on the handflamers isn't to bad still since you have 5 flame templates tightly covering a unit (two twin hand flamers and celestine if you have her with them) still is a bucket of wounds sines the hand flamers are still str 4.
Hand flamers are Strength 3. If they were Strength 4 it would be stupidly powerful, even without shred. Sorry.
Yeah as already covered hand flamers are S3 so if you're gonna put Dante in there the Melta pistols are better, as you can guarantee the melta range for vehicle hunting.
Celestine with the Sang Guard could be a pretty cool combo, as you could try to tank any ap1/2 on Celestines invul, although if any got through it would double her out (majority toughness may make you harder to wound, but doesn't change your double-out threshold.
BA fast razor with TLHF also go well thematically.
So, upcoming tournament: Escalation 2000pts, so 500pt game 1, 1000pt game 2 etc. Rules set for Games 1-4, such as, Game1; Minimum is 1 Troops choice, No Named, No more than 2 Wounds, No 2+, No Ordinance, No more than 2HP, No Psychic Phase.
Eases off Game 2, with LoW allowed in Game 4.
My current set-up is something like this for 2K, having to think on how to split up:
HQ Canoness (C.St Aspira, Rosaruis, Eviscerator)
Jacobus
Priest (P.W., Plasma Gun)
Command Squad (5 H.B.)
Troops BSS (20, P.W, Flamer, H.Flamer)
BSS (5, Flamer, H.Flamer, Rhino)
BSS (5, Flamer, H.Flamer, Rhino)
BSS (5, Flamer, H.Flamer, Rhino)
Fast Dominion Squad (4 Melta, 2 Plasma P., MM Immo)
Heavy Exorcist
Exorcist
Avenger
Errant Knight
Power Weapons are a waste on BSS. I know you have to take the Canoness for game 1, but I'd swap her out after that if you can. Plasma gun on a Priest is really not terribly worth it. I would get another priest with the saved points.
pretre wrote: Power Weapons are a waste on BSS. I know you have to take the Canoness for game 1, but I'd swap her out after that if you can. Plasma gun on a Priest is really not terribly worth it. I would get another priest with the saved points.
Bastion for the command squad?
I do like the idea of Bastion, would have to buy one, but where would i get the points? Drop a BSS?
The power weapon is to combine with Jacobus, priest and canoness for the 23 Wo(man) squad? i was thinking 2 power Mauls to go with the Eviserator?
I would agree with Plasma though, it hasn't done much in other games at BS3, but it seemed like Laspistol was just pointless? i guess just take them naked at 25pts for what they bring that's it...
As for the Canoness, Game 1 is 1 Troop selection only: 5 sisters will cover needed Force Org.
She is also 3 Wounds so not even allowed for Game 1.
If i drop the canoness however, i loose the Command squad, and the 5 Heavy Bolters. They have done quite well in games, and the canoness herself with St Aspira actually soaks up a lot of 3+ re-rollable... she's not amazing, but kinda needed?
I'd go with 2 CADs to have Exorcists, Avenger and the Heavy Bolters as Retributors, but then i need a second HQ anyway, defeating the point.
pretre wrote: Celestine is better in every way than the Canoness though. And you could get more priests for the blob if you drop her and the command squad.
True... BUT Celestine can't roll on strategic... If you have a battle sister blob army... the cannoness possibly getting infiltrate with d3 units is very strong.... so for the most part Celestine is better, but it all depends o nthe strategy your army is going with.
So happy to see a logical argument for taking the generic Canoness. Celestine has awesome fluff but I hate every army having to take her and/or Jacobus.
pretre wrote: Not that big a fan of infiltrate. Plus, if you do that you lose the 5++ from Jacobus (which is what I would take over Celestine's).
I also like the 5++.... but lets say you take the following list.
Cannoness with evisorator, cloak and book 120 ROLLING warlord trait on strategic for infiltrate... gets to reroll if they want.
Priest with evisorator and litanies 55
4 Priests with evisorators 220
20 sisters, 2 meltas, combi melta 270
20 sisters, 2 meltas, combi melta 270
20 sisters, 2 meltas, combi melta 270
20 sisters, 2 meltas, combi melta 270
exorcist 125
exorcist 125
exorcist 125
1850 total
You have 80 fearless sisters who will take forever to kill..,.,, and infiltrating 2 of these units means your opponent HAS to deal with them or lose the game.
Sisters have krak grenades which means wave serpents are going down, and even riptides and wraithknights will fall to that many... back it up with priests with evisorators who want to reroll their armor and invuls in combat... and this is a decently scary list.
Takes some finesse to use but still not bad.
thats also 80 OBJECTIVE secured sisters....
If you don't get the infiltrate result.... the 1/2 results will help you get there alive, and 4 isn't bad either... 5 is kinda meh... and 6 is pretty nice also. You have a good chance of getting there and beating face with the cannoness...
Now don't get me wrong... I ALSO love the 5++ jacobus...
Personally I'd go for the Mantle of Ophelia over the Cloak of St. Aspira every time. The Cloak will save you against basic infantry attacks, but the Mantle will stop you being roflstomped the moment an enemy character looks at you - and you have bolters and flamers to deal with infantry.
For counter-charging, you might wanna try some Death Cult Assassins. They're not very durable, but they have their moments, and it's always fun to outflank them with Cypher.
Furyou Miko wrote: Personally I'd go for the Mantle of Ophelia over the Cloak of St. Aspira every time. The Cloak will save you against basic infantry attacks, but the Mantle will stop you being roflstomped the moment an enemy character looks at you - and you have bolters and flamers to deal with infantry.
I would have agreed 6th Ed, but with the 7th Ed, i'd rather send in the Superior in the 1st round of combat (die) to clear any retinue with 20 BSS canoness and priest. So that round 2 of combat, i get all of them pounding the guy, and if he challenges again, you could always sacrifice the priest =P
I guess it's preference and i'll have to play with Mantle a few times, because i'm quite fond of re-rolling those 3+. The squad usually get no attention apart from small arms fire, because all the heavy stuff is trying to get the Exorcists or the Errant Knight.
We will assume that you used 10 berserkers charging from a land raider for this. Remember, the statement We I was trying to disprove was that these units fold like wet paper bags in combat... so we will assume no casualties on either side AND the zerks get the charge on 20 sisers with 2 priests....
Overwatch:
17 bolters, 2 shots each = 1 dead zerker on the way in (0.95... i rounded up)
2 meltas and a combi melta = .42 dead zerks (we will round down to 0 this time)
Activate warhymns.... re-roll saves and re roll failed to wounds
close combat, zerkers first
9 left, 3 attacks each on the charge
27*.66*.83*.33*.33 = 1.6 dead sisters... we will round up to 2... since i didn't add the extra attack from the champ
18 sisters, 2 priests left....
18 attackts.. (regular)
18*.88*.52*.33= 2.7 dead berserkers... we will round to 3.... 6 zerkers left...
2 priests with evisorators swing 2 attacks each...
4*.88*.9(.83 chance to wound with a reroll)= 3 more dead berserkers.... 3 left... they lost combat... next round sisters win....
I don't see zerkers beating sisters in combat... even if you add in the fist...
Thats 2 dead sisters.... vs 7 dead berserkers....
adding in the shots if the zerkers fired their pistols first?
congrats... 1.4 less sisters... and the zerks still lose combat...
As for the power mauls vs evisorators.... evisorators on smashing priests are str10 with 2d6 armor pen and AP2.... they make imperial knights second guess the charge and anything T5 instant die in close combat when they connect....
sisters reroll saves with the hymn... they have 3+ armor with a reroll... and no zerks do not have AP3 weapons... do they?
and yes... its normally 1 per squad... BUT you have to assume tactical flexibilty vs your opponents... you don't play the army the same way vs a shooting army as you do vs a close combat one. vs close combat you stack the priests... This is why the list is strong... tactical flexibility
I did say that would be the reach with the list... you have a 31% chance to get that trait since you are battleforged and get a reroll on the trait...
BUT if you don't get it... move through cover and stealth in runes is very good... as is pinning 3 tau units (they have poor leadership and may actually fail!)
vs anyone else night attacker helps also. so you have a very good chance of getting a very good warlord trait with this army.
I mean, I see what you're doing and it is cool, I just don't think it is as effective as one big blob with priest concentration and mobile support in vehicles. Especially in Maelstrom 6" + D6 run isn't going to cut it for getting all your objectives.
Also, Celestine can give that one blob Hit and Run. Jacobus can give them a 5++ and counter-attack. I just don't see infiltrate as that great a pull. (Also, Allied Hereticus can give you scout.)
pretre wrote: I mean, I see what you're doing and it is cool, I just don't think it is as effective as one big blob with priest concentration and mobile support in vehicles. Especially in Maelstrom 6" + D6 run isn't going to cut it for getting all your objectives.
Also, Celestine can give that one blob Hit and Run. Jacobus can give them a 5++ and counter-attack. I just don't see infiltrate as that great a pull. (Also, Allied Hereticus can give you scout.)
I totally agree that those are good and in some situations better.... but the more points you put in characters, the less bodies you have....
as far as mealstrom goes... infiltrate on the objectives... they can't get to the objectives... they can't win.... don't even need to infiltrate... just move onto them by moving and running...
When you go with jacobus... you have to acknowledge while you get a very strong turtle... if your opponent out ranges you... you done... you can't get to them and jacobus just prolongs your units death...
Now... That said... I personally run jacobus in my list currently. BUT he (or celestine) isn't the only way to viably run sisters... I just don't have the priest models to run this sisters list or I would.
pretre wrote: I definitely don't think he's the only way, but I do think he's better off than a Canoness. Also, priests are an easy conversion. Get converting!
I've run the 20 girl blob with priests and jacobus. It is insanely fun.
This is the list I'm bringing this sunday to a tourny near me. They are doing 2 CAD at 2000pts. The list will have issues vs long range tau.... but 4 exorcists should mitigate that.
In this list I used the cannoness as a way of unlocking the second CAD cheaply while also boosting the combat power of the blob.
The 7 sisters sit in the top of the bastion with quad gun and the other 5 man squad sits inside.
HQ Uriah (warlord) 100
HQ Priest with evisorator and litanies 70
HQ Priest with evisorator and shot gun 56
HQ Cannoness with evisorator 95
Troop 20 sisters, 2 meltas, vet with melta bomb 265
Troop 20 sisters, 2 meltas, vet with melta bomb 265
Troop 7 sisters with heavy bolter 94
Troop 5 sisters with heavy bolter 70
Fast 5 dominions with 4 meltas and a combi melta in a dozer MM immo 180
Fast 5 dominions with 4 meltas and a combi melta in a dozer MM immo 180
Fort Bastion with quad gun 125
Heavy exorcist 125
Heavy exorcist 125
Heavy exorcist 125
Heavy exorcist 125
Pinning test pinning, or tactically occupying 3 units?
I was thinking the game where you play Tau, or any shooty (i'd say a lot of Wyverns IG army might be worse) and you don't get infiltrate. That's where i see a very hard game...
BlackTalos wrote: Pinning test pinning, or tactically occupying 3 units?
I was thinking the game where you play Tau, or any shooty (i'd say a lot of Wyverns IG army might be worse) and you don't get infiltrate. That's where i see a very hard game...
agreed... but you do have the benefit of actually having a 3+ save vs wyverns.... where most horde armies don't. BUT in 40k... sometimes you get the hard matchups and need to just do your best to outplay the opponent... Hard counters exist : p
and the pinning test thing is strategic warlord trait 6... its "pick 3 enemy units, they must test for pinning" or something like that
pretre wrote: I definitely don't think he's the only way, but I do think he's better off than a Canoness. Also, priests are an easy conversion. Get converting!
I've run the 20 girl blob with priests and jacobus. It is insanely fun.
This is the list I'm bringing this sunday to a tourny near me. They are doing 2 CAD at 2000pts. The list will have issues vs long range tau.... but 4 exorcists should mitigate that.
In this list I used the cannoness as a way of unlocking the second CAD cheaply while also boosting the combat power of the blob.
The 7 sisters sit in the top of the bastion with quad gun and the other 5 man squad sits inside.
HQ Uriah (warlord) 100
HQ Priest with evisorator and litanies 70
HQ Priest with evisorator and shot gun 56
HQ Cannoness with evisorator 95
Troop 20 sisters, 2 meltas, vet with melta bomb 265
Troop 20 sisters, 2 meltas, vet with melta bomb 265
Troop 7 sisters with heavy bolter 94
Troop 5 sisters with heavy bolter 70
Fast 5 dominions with 4 meltas and a combi melta in a dozer MM immo 180
Fast 5 dominions with 4 meltas and a combi melta in a dozer MM immo 180
Fort Bastion with quad gun 125
Heavy exorcist 125
Heavy exorcist 125
Heavy exorcist 125
Heavy exorcist 125
Apart from the dominions, this feels too "static" for me. I never used to mechanize my troops, but since Maelstrom and Objective secured, it's almost a must.
As much as my priest had a plasma gun to get some shooting in, i'd agree with Pretre now: Drop the points and take them at 25pt bare. Unless you intend to charge Terminators, the 1 Eviscerator on canoness should deal enough AP2 imo.
I just really want Rhinos for the 7 BSS and 5 BSS...
My local meta has lots of wraithknights and imperial knights... so dealing with them in combat may be necessary... since the priests make you fearless you can't retreat and need to do some damage to them somehow.
pretre wrote: I definitely don't think he's the only way, but I do think he's better off than a Canoness. Also, priests are an easy conversion. Get converting!
I've run the 20 girl blob with priests and jacobus. It is insanely fun.
This is the list I'm bringing this sunday to a tourny near me. They are doing 2 CAD at 2000pts. The list will have issues vs long range tau.... but 4 exorcists should mitigate that.
In this list I used the cannoness as a way of unlocking the second CAD cheaply while also boosting the combat power of the blob.
The 7 sisters sit in the top of the bastion with quad gun and the other 5 man squad sits inside.
HQ Uriah (warlord) 100
HQ Priest with evisorator and litanies 70
HQ Priest with evisorator and shot gun 56
HQ Cannoness with evisorator 95
Troop 20 sisters, 2 meltas, vet with melta bomb 265
Troop 20 sisters, 2 meltas, vet with melta bomb 265
Troop 7 sisters with heavy bolter 94
Troop 5 sisters with heavy bolter 70
Fast 5 dominions with 4 meltas and a combi melta in a dozer MM immo 180
Fast 5 dominions with 4 meltas and a combi melta in a dozer MM immo 180
Fort Bastion with quad gun 125
Heavy exorcist 125
Heavy exorcist 125
Heavy exorcist 125
Heavy exorcist 125
Apart from the dominions, this feels too "static" for me. I never used to mechanize my troops, but since Maelstrom and Objective secured, it's almost a must.
As much as my priest had a plasma gun to get some shooting in, i'd agree with Pretre now: Drop the points and take them at 25pt bare. Unless you intend to charge Terminators, the 1 Eviscerator on canoness should deal enough AP2 imo.
I just really want Rhinos for the 7 BSS and 5 BSS...
I agree... but I don't want to give up first blood... and tournies do not run maelstrom missions yet near me. Not everyone has the cards and rolling in the book slows the whole event down.
If you're not on Maelstrom and cards then yeah, good list. Just know that if you start you'll really need mobility.
As to Imperial Knights, i play one myself in 2K, and having one is good against one =P
However, to deal with one without is relatively simple: Melta
One set of shots from a dominion squad WILL take down a knight. Of course, he can put his shields up for it, but with 4 Exorcists, he takes that he's down too Not sure what your standard deployment is, but 2 Exos left, and 2 right, if the knight is near the middle he should die in a turn. If he's on a flank, dominions come in and pop
I'd have to check the weapon upgrades, but it should come out right at 2000 points. Celestine is by her lonesome to deep strike for an objective or to harass some troopers. I stick the canoness on the quad, and Coteaz goes in with some dominions somewhere. Eventually I'm going to drop the wall, and an exorcist for Avenger Strike Fighter's x2.
He is. I have no idea why I have him in there... Extra warp charge points? the occasional prescienced ignores cover meltas? He's really useless since he's in a rhino a lot. I Might be better served with Jacobus, a couple rets, or 5 seraphim with flamers with celestine.
I really like that Dante/Seraphim combo you guys were talking about yesterday. He's on order now.
Drop the wall and the canoness, for rets, jacobus, and a bastion. Give them a simulacrum for 3 turns of at rending goodness. i'm sure a BSS squad can donate a rhino to the cause.
Only downside is my exorcists are now naked and afraid.
deviantduck wrote: Drop the wall and the canoness, for rets, jacobus, and a bastion. Give them a simulacrum for 3 turns of at rending goodness. i'm sure a BSS squad can donate a rhino to the cause.
Only downside is my exorcists are now naked and afraid.
I like that better. You should be able to get some cover on the board, plus you have the bastion and you can hide two behind it pretty easy with 25% coverage from most angles.
In light of my upcoming tournament, and my first time (if i don't get a test game) using Jacobus+Priest+Canoness(Eviserator) in a Blob of 20 Sisters, how do players having used them before go about it?
Do you sit them snugly on a objective back/midfield?
or do they unrelentingly push forward mid-field?
BlackTalos wrote: In light of my upcoming tournament, and my first time (if i don't get a test game) using Jacobus+Priest+Canoness(Eviserator) in a Blob of 20 Sisters, how do players having used them before go about it?
Do you sit them snugly on a objective back/midfield?
or do they unrelentingly push forward mid-field?
Well, step one, drop the canoness for more priests and make sure to get the litany of faith for them.
Step two: Relentless push forward. You want to get them in hand to hand where they will wear down whatever they come into contact with. Sitting on an objective is a waste.
I played with a priest bomb in a repressor in a lot of games in 6th. it was a huge point sink, and was either amazing, or died horribly without earning it's points back. probably 65/35 on success.
Canoness with axe, rosarius, and mantle
2 priests with mauls for str 5 ap2
2 priests with axes for reroll wound and save, 1 with litanies.
SCS Squad meltas x4
1 Hospitaler
So in assault it was 9 ap1 str 4 attacks, 6 str 5 ap2 attacks, and 5 sisters.
They reroll to hit first round, reroll to wound, and reroll failed saves and had FNP.
I think the mvp game for that squad it tanked an Archon and Farseer from the bottom of turn 1 to the top of turn 7, when it won combat.
Not tactics per se, but what models are people using for their priests, specifically female ones? I have some priest models, but am thinking about trying to make my force entirely female. Any help? Thanks.
I converted an old Bretonnian Damsel (the one with a staff and sword) into a priest, keeping the staff as a power maul and sawing off the sword to replace with a plasma pistol (she's not one of my commonly used priests, sadly.)
I use a Shadowforge farm girl with a shotgun to stand in for Jacobus (She's "Saint Jackie").
Other than that, my priests are converted from Dark Eldar. Kind of. They're not really finished.
Actually, I'll work on them now!
(another question: People talk about using the dakkabanner inside a transport. Can we do the same with the Sacred Standard of the Orders Militant? Hide it in a Repressor or an Immolator and measure from the tank's hull for its radius).
I'm using Mordheim Sisters of Sigmar. Had a bunch from back when Mordheim first came out, but then again, I'm still using Necromunda Spyars for Inquisitors.
Mordheim SoS, Escher from Necromunda work well for female.
Necromunda Redemptionists, Warrior Priests from WHFB, Mordheim priests, Flagellants, etc all work for male.
Just played my first battle with the codex, in à 400 and something battle vs chaos.
We played with 1 hq and troop compulsory. I ended up with à ten member SBS with 2 priests and St. Celistine with seraphims.
THE opponent had 2 squads of cultists, onze unit of chosen with à lord. And to top it of, she had a hellbrute.
Turn 1 we Both moved up.
Turn 2 Celistine and Co. Jump next to cultists and burn them all. Bss lose a gril to a Shotgun from a cultist champion. He gets to rol a boon and gets some extra close combat killyness. Celistine charges The lord in the cultist unit, and flubs in challenge.
Turn 3 celistine and Co. Get jumped by the chosen, only celistine and one flamergirl lives to tell the tale. Lord dies in combat.
My SBS kill the seconde cultist unit. Celistine and her girl hit and run.
Turn 4 flamers kill all but two chosen, they are dismissed in The following charge.
The rest of The game is us running away from The brute. Wich kills Some with fire.
Conclusion: celistine and Co. Are awesome. And i need to remember to use my AoF beause i forgot them all.
I'm liking this army so far. And can't wait for round two.
In the future, remember your Battle Sisters all have krak grenades, so if you can get someone behind the Hellbrute, you have a small chance of killing it.
BlackTalos wrote: In light of my upcoming tournament, and my first time (if i don't get a test game) using Jacobus+Priest+Canoness(Eviserator) in a Blob of 20 Sisters, how do players having used them before go about it?
Do you sit them snugly on a objective back/midfield?
or do they unrelentingly push forward mid-field?
I'd move them up as well. The only other thing I do is to advance near difficult terrain. If you can't get the charge, at least let the opponent charge you with Init 1. But if he has frag grenades, I guess don't bother.
My experience so for is that my opponents priorities the other units which are further ahead like seraphim and dominions. So the slower foot slogging blobs are usually spared. They do get the occasional whirlwind but 3+ save is pretty resilient. And it takes quite a bit of firepower to make a blob combat ineffective.
Yeah, i'm often surprised when players "run because only bolters are in range"... Whenever my holy bolter is within 24" of anything it gets to shout, and sometimes it's quite surprising how effective they actually are. Never played a blob but i'm sure 20+ shots is going to hurt anything not AV11+ or T8+ :p
Farseer Anath'lan wrote: Not tactics per se, but what models are people using for their priests, specifically female ones? I have some priest models, but am thinking about trying to make my force entirely female. Any help? Thanks.
I've long planed my force as entirely female. I recently finished the ultimate evolution of my female crusader project (to be found here) and I've been looking for compelling designs for female priests, so, yeah, also eager to hear what people are doing on that front.
BlackTalos wrote: Yeah, i'm often surprised when players "run because only bolters are in range"... Whenever my holy bolter is within 24" of anything it gets to shout, and sometimes it's quite surprising how effective they actually are. Never played a blob but i'm sure 20+ shots is going to hurt anything not AV11+ or T8+ :p
And since you have Jacobus inside, you can afford to be charged. So the opposing unit will have to take 20 bolter shots, take about 40 overwatch and then contend with almost 50 attacks. If the opposing unit doesnt have Frag grenades and you are in terrain, that's even better. I've taken down a Bloodcrusher unit charging the blob (about 7-8 IIRC) and left one Bloodcrusher to strike back. Unfortunately, he rolled snake eyes for his break test.....
milkboy wrote: My experience so for is that my opponents priorities the other units which are further ahead like seraphim and dominions. So the slower foot slogging blobs are usually spared. They do get the occasional whirlwind but 3+ save is pretty resilient. And it takes quite a bit of firepower to make a blob combat ineffective.
Multiple targets. As said, the Dominions are in their face, the exorcists are raining death on them, etc. You can ignore them and focus on the blob but then the rest of your army is loving it.
WS3/4vs WS5 (of the crushers), hit half of those 50, so 25
Then S3 vs T4, wound bout a third, so bout 8 and a bit.
He fails 2/3rds of his saves, so bout 5 1/3
That's 2 dead crushers (3 wounds each)
My experience with the blob is (and it could be my meta) is that the sisters and Uriah do very little in close combat and I rely on a few heavy hitters (priests, Coteaz, etc..) to do the heavy lifting.
They are also slow and easily avoided (terrain plays havoc since I usually have to spread out to avoid being barraged to death).
They are very fun if you can get Coteaz with Precognition. Re-rollable 2+ with 20 sisters to serve as extra wounds is harder to kill!
You forgot about reroll hits and reroll wounds, plus all the jacobus and priest attacks. (Assuming he runs it the way I run it, Jacobus and 3-4 priests one with litanies, 2 with mauls). It chews through stuff pretty easy.
Shandara wrote: True, but even if he kills twice as many.. 4-5 crushers left will chew him out just as quick, given they're built to kill 3+ save infantry.
Jacobus gives you a 5++ with reroll from Hymns. And each crusher loss is a lot bigger than a sister loss. Those crushers are toast.
He was striking at Init 1 because he charged through difficult terrain. Else I probably wouldnt have killed so many. I has Jacobus and two other priests. So got three hymns running.
But it was moot because the Daemon snake eyes for morale test brought everyone back.
Automatically Appended Next Post: From this experience, although anecdotal as best, have gotten me quite taken with a sisters blob.
Yeah, they do good work. I've only had them eliminated before doing anything once and that was my fault (didn't move them forward). They still bought time for the army though.
The Sisters only stand a chance if the crushers have to go through terrain and even then if they have enough crushers they'll deplete your blob most of the way.
Spoiler:
20 sisters, jacobus, 3 priests with mauls, 475 pts
24 attacks at S3 WS3/4, 18 hits after re-rolls
9 attacks at S5 WS3, 6 3/4 hits after re-rolls
18 hits at S3 vs T4, 10 wounds after re-rolls
6 3/4 hits at S5 vs T4, 6 wounds after re-rolls
so 16 wounds total, ~10 failed saves, 3 dead crushers
6 left (given 9 crushers at 405 pts)
24 attacks at WS5, 16 hits
S5 vs T3, 13 1/3 wounds
6 dead sisters after re-rolls
Next turn they hit on I4 and kill another 4 or so before you strike (well apart from together with Uriah)
Now you have 10 sisters, 3 priests, Jacobus and no re-roll to hit
Turn 4 they probably are gone and you've lost most of your normal Sisters
So yes, they'll win if:
* you are all in terrain
* you are all bunched up they can all strike right from turn 1
* he doesn't have skull cannons to take away your cover
* he doesn't challenge (he should always have a herald or a at least a unit sergeant) to take out some of the priests after the sergeant in turn 1
* he doesn't have the Grimoire on it.
* you kill a few beforehand
20 sisters, jacobus, 3 priests with mauls, 475 pts
47 attacks at S3 WS3/4, 35.25 hits after re-rolls
12 attacks at S5 WS3, 9 hits after re-rolls
35.25 hits at S3 vs T4, 19.58 wounds after re-rolls
9 hits at S5 vs T4, 8 wounds after re-rolls
so 27.58 wounds total,
Automatically Appended Next Post:
deFl0 wrote: The basic premise is that you swap the SOB squads into the drop pods and the raven guard go in the immolators to give them scout.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you can't start in a BB's DT. So no drop pods. You can start outside the immos and jump in first turn but that doesn't give you scout.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you can't start in a BB's DT. So no drop pods. You can start outside the immos and jump in first turn but that doesn't give you scout.
Where do you see this in the 7th edition rules? You have a page # or quote? I may have totally missed it, but I gave it a pretty good look last night.
"The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is deployed, it can
only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any Independent Characters that
have joined it). After the game begins, it can then transport any friendly
Infantry unit, subject to Transport Capacity and other special exclusions, as
explained in the vehicle’s entry."
If you're looking at transport swapping shenanigans, I'd be going for either Astra Militarum or Space Marines. Then you can put Sisters in Valkyries/Vendettas or Land Raiders/Stormravens (since they are not Dedicated Transports).
Personally though I think Repressors are the way to go if you can use Forgeworld. But even then, Rhinos/Immolators aren't a horrible choice anyway. I'm sure it's just positive bias, but the 6+ Invul save that Sisters vehicles get can really pull through.
The 6++ has saved my bacon quite a few times....
and the look on your opponent's face (because they've never played sisters) when they find out ALL of your tanks have it is priceless.
BlackTalos wrote: In light of my upcoming tournament, and my first time (if i don't get a test game) using Jacobus+Priest+Canoness(Eviserator) in a Blob of 20 Sisters, how do players having used them before go about it?
Do you sit them snugly on a objective back/midfield?
or do they unrelentingly push forward mid-field?
I'd move them up as well. The only other thing I do is to advance near difficult terrain. If you can't get the charge, at least let the opponent charge you with Init 1. But if he has frag grenades, I guess don't bother.
If you're willing to take Codex: Inquisition, an Inquisitor with the Liber Heresius Relic (15pts) will give you Scout on the Inquisitors Ld10 test made before the first turn. Starting the blob in the mid-field alongside the Scouting Dominions and Seraphims or even just Cruising Speed Rhinos/Immos could be interesting. It will also give you a once per game use of Counter-Attack, Hatred, Fear and Split Fire. Sure, you already have Counter-Attack and Hatred, but Fear could be hilarious in certain situations and Split-Fire might be handy if you have a Multi-Melta or something in the blob.
Besides the 6++, the other thing which makes the rhino and immolator useful for me is the laud hailers. I usually have a few so that I have bubbles where AoF can reliably occur. Because I face a lot of skimmers in my meta, meltas that ignore cover are extremely important and testing on Ld8 with reroll is pretty reliable.
GoonBandito wrote: If you're looking at transport swapping shenanigans, I'd be going for either Astra Militarum or Space Marines. Then you can put Sisters in Valkyries/Vendettas or Land Raiders/Stormravens (since they are not Dedicated Transports).
Personally though I think Repressors are the way to go if you can use Forgeworld. But even then, Rhinos/Immolators aren't a horrible choice anyway. I'm sure it's just positive bias, but the 6+ Invul save that Sisters vehicles get can really pull through.
My current plan for "amazing swap" is these 2 units:
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in Carapace Armour, with Hellrifle
Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband with 3 Plasma Cannon Servitors & 2 Jokearos
Land Raider Crusader (DT)
(Thx Goon)
Sister Repentia x 10
Turn 1: Inquisitor and friends disembark (if they even have to... - DT must have their unit, but what about "none"?), Repentia Embark, drive off 12" (Turbo not allowed i think)
Turn 2 : Repentia assault from transport (and just as useful as old codex) =)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just double checked, and you may indeed deploy the transport "Alone", embark the repentia on turn 1, and move normally 12"+Flat out (if you don't really want to snap shoot)
So annoying and rather noob query. I've been casually, almost randomly, collecting and converting sob for the last couple of years, but haven't the faintest idea where to start with them as a cohesive, playable force. I have:
Spoiler:
3 exorcists (1 can be swapped out as a repressor)
3 Immolator (mm)
Avenger
Celestine
10 seraphim with BP 3 seraphim with flamers
1 seraphim superior with plasma pistol and power sword
1 seraphim superior with bp and power sword
20 sob with bolter
3 sob with melta
3 sob with plasma
3 sob with flamer
4 sob with heavy bolters
Sister Superior with icon and combi flamer
2 Sister Superior with power sword and bolter
2 penitent engines
Chimera w flamer & multi laser
Uriah
9 death cult
Rhino
5 priests (3 plasma)
2 simulacra bearers
1 standard bearer
Dialogus
Hospitalier
Cannoness with flail
I have plenty of =][= bits and.pieces to field alongside, but to be honest I feel a bit overwhelmed! Any advice gratefully sought!
Celestine 10 Seraphim, 7 with BP 2 with Flamers, 1 with BP/Power sword (paint as a normal sword) 3 Exorcists 5 Sisters (2 Bolters, 1 flamer, 1 melta, 1 sup) 5 Sisters (2 Bolters, 1 flamer, 1 melta, 1 sup with sword and bolter) 20 Sisters (16 with Bolter, 1 with Icon/Combi, 1 Flamer, 1 Melta, Standard Bearer (just normal sister but looks cool) Uriah 5 Priests
It would be nice if you had more meltas to throw in some Dominions though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, Heavy Flamers for the SOB squads would be ace.
Thanks man! I can very, very easily convert HBSoB to HF, not so easily to MM though. What would you swap out then? Also, just out of interest, why 3 Exoricsts not 2 Ex/1Av?
Avenger: Well, I built one, so I thought I'd try to find a use for it Good to know. Oh, I can find Meltaguns, that's not tricky. Imagine I have a bits box of doom, and you'd be on the right track what would you suggest in that case?
pretre wrote: I'm not a fan of the avenger, but it is an easy swap.
If you get metal SM meltaguns, you can do an easy conversion with HB sisters if you have spare hands for the off hand.
Even easier use the sister pulling the pin out of the grenade with her teeth. Cut off her boltgun and the hand holding the meltagun and glue on the SM meltagun in place
pretre wrote: I'm not a fan of the avenger, but it is an easy swap.
If you get metal SM meltaguns, you can do an easy conversion with HB sisters if you have spare hands for the off hand.
Even easier use the sister pulling the pin out of the grenade with her teeth. Cut off her boltgun and the hand holding the meltagun and glue on the SM meltagun in place
I've recently came out of hiatus, dusted off my Sisters, and gave Immolator Spam a try. It's pretty effective, especially when using the Purge Squadron formation.
Well that's the problem with all our Heavy Support units, they are not Exorcists...
That should be a sticky in this thread.
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SabrX wrote: I've recently came out of hiatus, dusted off my Sisters, and gave Immolator Spam a try. It's pretty effective, especially when using the Purge Squadron formation.
Purge Squadron is Apoc only though, right? Cause I would love to field that crazy gak in a normal game.
SabrX wrote: I've recently came out of hiatus, dusted off my Sisters, and gave Immolator Spam a try. It's pretty effective, especially when using the Purge Squadron formation.
Purge Squadron is Apoc only though, right? Cause I would love to field that crazy gak in a normal game.
It's built-in the codex and BRB treats formations as a separate detachment. I haven't read anything that said it's an apoc formation. Plus, I'm preparing for Bay Area Open tournament, which allows non-apoc formations.
Honestly, formations is the way to go in this edition, especially if you are an Ork or Tyranid player.
I've used the Avenger in a few games. It is a nice thing to have, but it is not anything I desperately need. My meta is generally light on flyers, so ymmv on that.
Thanks chaps! So rather than stick the meltas in the sister squads, it seems like maybe I should run them as dominions, chop and swap one heavy bolter gal to melta and switch the others to heavy flamers into said sister squads? Gotcha. Btw, i did the exact pin-pulling sister melta trick already
SabrX wrote: I've recently came out of hiatus, dusted off my Sisters, and gave Immolator Spam a try. It's pretty effective, especially when using the Purge Squadron formation.
Purge Squadron is Apoc only though, right? Cause I would love to field that crazy gak in a normal game.
It's built-in the codex and BRB treats formations as a separate detachment. I haven't read anything that said it's an apoc formation. Plus, I'm preparing for Bay Area Open tournament, which allows non-apoc formations.
Honestly, formations is the way to go in this edition, especially if you are an Ork or Tyranid player.
The formation itself says 'Apocalypse'
n this section you will find three Apocalypse datasheets. These represent just some of the battle formations utilised by the Sisters of Battle when prosecuting Apocalyptic wars in the name of the Ecclesiarchy. In order to use these datasheets you will require a copy of Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse.
The Apocalypse datasheets presented in this section are used in the same manner as those in Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse, and all the normal rules pertaining to Apocalypse Formations and datasheets also apply to the ones presented here.
FORMATION TYPES
The datasheets presented in this section are all Battle Formations, which consist of a large collection of units and models. The rules for Battle Formations are described in Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse.
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inmygravenimage wrote: Thanks chaps! So rather than stick the meltas in the sister squads, it seems like maybe I should run them as dominions, chop and swap one heavy bolter gal to melta and switch the others to heavy flamers into said sister squads? Gotcha. Btw, i did the exact pin-pulling sister melta trick already
n this section you will find three Apocalypse datasheets. These represent just some of the battle formations utilised by the Sisters of Battle when prosecuting Apocalyptic wars in the name of the Ecclesiarchy. In order to use these datasheets you will require a copy of Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse.
The Apocalypse datasheets presented in this section are used in the same manner as those in Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse, and all the normal rules pertaining to Apocalypse Formations and datasheets also apply to the ones presented here.
FORMATION TYPES
The datasheets presented in this section are all Battle Formations, which consist of a large collection of units and models. The rules for Battle Formations are described in Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse.
What is better: AV13 spam Repressors or AV11 spam Immolators? Repressors have Heavy Flamers, fire points, and can re-roll dangerous terrain tests. Immolators can be outfitted with TL-MM which is good at medium rage, high AV vehicles, and chance to hit flyers.
Thanks again for all your help chaps! 3 HB converted to HF - check, done. Before I start chopping up more sisters, is there any reason why you wouldn't give a Dominion superior a combi-melta?
It might not be as good and point effective, but it definitely looks good (and has destroyed quite a few vehicles an others in the past.) Amazingly she has not died to overwatch yet...
It was debated previously. I think it is doable though. Doesn't the entry say you can take items from the list? So you can replace both boltgun and pistol. Admittedly it is open to two interpretations.
But the point cost is pretty high for dual plasma pistols. So it's not like it's broken.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Regarding my melta conversion, here's some quick pics I just snapped of it.
So, you just put the metal melta on the right side and then position the other hand/forearm however you want. This one is setup like she's bringing the melta up and will be using the left hand to rest on top.
Flamers aren't particularly useful due to the easy access of Heavy Flamers. I've convert my current Flamers to Heavy Flamers using IG bits and a little bit of green stuff:
The Warhound packs a punch but it's met its doom often enough now at the hands of lowly guardsmen/marines tying it up in melee or (worse) blowing it up in melee!
I'd imagine Exorcists and Knight Paladin makes a good combo. Can opener and 2 frying pans to whatever is inside. I'll borrow my friend's and give it a test drive.
gregor_xenos wrote: Im finally biting the bullet and selling my sisters....
Hopefully I'll find someone willing to buy them outright.
Do you have 6 Repressors that you are trying to get rid of? I need 6 before the tournament next weekend and making the top piece from scratch is really tedious.
pretre wrote: I just use immo rhinos as repressor tops and normal rhinos as rhonos.
That's actually not a bad idea. I bet half of the 40k community doesn't even know what an SoB Rhino looks like. Just purchase some flamer bits, throw them on the Rhino, and done! I'm not sure if tournaments will except it, but it's worth a shot.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just noticed Repressors doesn't forbid carrying models with bulky, very bulky, or extremely bulky like Rhinos. I could have a squad of Retributors with 4 Multi-meltas, attach a Sanguinary Priest w/ Terminator Armor to give them Relentless, and transport them all in a Repressor. 260 points might seem a little steep, but consider the Repressor moving cruising speed and the Retributors still firing normal BS out of the two fire points.
pretre wrote: I just use immo rhinos as repressor tops and normal rhinos as rhonos.
That's actually not a bad idea. I bet half of the 40k community doesn't even know what an SoB Rhino looks like. Just purchase some flamer bits, throw them on the Rhino, and done! I'm not sure if tournaments will except it, but it's worth a shot.
As far as tournaments go, as long as there is no confusion, I don't see why you couldn't use them. As long as you are not running both repressors and immolators in the same list, you can call your immos a converted repressor.
I just noticed Repressors doesn't forbid carrying models with bulky, very bulky, or extremely bulky like Rhinos. I could have a squad of Retributors with 4 Multi-meltas, attach a Sanguinary Priest w/ Terminator Armor to give them Relentless, and transport them all in a Repressor. 260 points might seem a little steep, but consider the Repressor moving cruising speed and the Retributors still firing normal BS out of the two fire points.
This is wrong on 2 accounts:
1. Relentless does not confer onto the unit. Only the Priest in TDA would be relentless. The retributors wouldn't.
2. If you are moving at Cruising, you are snap-firing. It has nothing to do with being Relentless. Rather, it is the vehicle movement rules that govern how you can shoot depending on how fast you move.
BTW, instead of allying in BA for the for the SP's, you should instead ally in a Dark Angel Librarian with the Power Field Generator in a Land Raider Achilles. 4++ Invuln's to every unit within 3" of him! Just keep in mind that is about 500-pts of allies.
pretre wrote: I just use immo rhinos as repressor tops and normal rhinos as rhonos.
That's actually not a bad idea. I bet half of the 40k community doesn't even know what an SoB Rhino looks like. Just purchase some flamer bits, throw them on the Rhino, and done! I'm not sure if tournaments will except it, but it's worth a shot.
As far as tournaments go, as long as there is no confusion, I don't see why you couldn't use them. As long as you are not running both repressors and immolators in the same list, you can call your immos a converted repressor.
I just noticed Repressors doesn't forbid carrying models with bulky, very bulky, or extremely bulky like Rhinos. I could have a squad of Retributors with 4 Multi-meltas, attach a Sanguinary Priest w/ Terminator Armor to give them Relentless, and transport them all in a Repressor. 260 points might seem a little steep, but consider the Repressor moving cruising speed and the Retributors still firing normal BS out of the two fire points.
This is wrong on 2 accounts:
1. Relentless does not confer onto the unit. Only the Priest in TDA would be relentless. The retributors wouldn't.
2. If you are moving at Cruising, you are snap-firing. It has nothing to do with being Relentless. Rather, it is the vehicle movement rules that govern how you can shoot depending on how fast you move.
BTW, instead of allying in BA for the for the SP's, you should instead ally in a Dark Angel Librarian with the Power Field Generator in a Land Raider Achilles. 4++ Invuln's to every unit within 3" of him! Just keep in mind that is about 500-pts of allies.
Oh wow, I think I got relentless mixed up with slow and purposeful. I don't think there's a way to get 3 Imperial ally IC attached to Retributors for that.
Will need to fill up the gallery with all of my painted stuff =p
Shandara wrote: Wasn't that changed in the e-codex? You can only take 1 weapon from the ranged weapon list for most sergeants.
I converted a canoness with 2 plasma pistols for the WD codex and haven't been able to use her.
Shandara wrote: The list in my e-book version says:
"May replace one weapon with one of the following:"
deviantduck wrote: Doesn't matter either way, you still only fire 1 gun.
I did think the wording meant "only one", but it is says "replace one with one": nothing at all disallows you from doing "one with one" twice....?
And as pretre said, everyone has the Gunslinger rule, so you may fire both as shooting and overwatch.
Makes for a 43pts model though, so the cost is high. She's been doing very well though =)
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SabrX wrote: I'd imagine Exorcists and Knight Paladin makes a good combo. Can opener and 2 frying pans to whatever is inside. I'll borrow my friend's and give it a test drive.
I personally prefer playing with Errant. The sisters lack forward armour like Land Raiders, so this fills the spot quite nicely. Flank up one side and the enemy WILL target your knight. Draws fire from exorcists and you can always run him back / charge into combat if things get dicey for him.
As i've said before: the knights main weapon is his Apocalyptic explosion, and you don't want that between your Exorcists... because he will go down at some point if drawing fire, and if he's not, that means the rest of your sisters are usually fried =P
"One weapon with one of the following" means that you swap them on a one for one basis.
Look at it another way.
You have a Bolt Pistol and a Chainsword. You can swap your bolt pistol and you can swap your chainsword. Why then would you not be able to swap your bolt pistol and your chainsword?
Anyway, the Marauder is a super-heavy flier that weighs in at just under a baneblade, I should hope its bigger than a 2HP ground attack plane!
pretre wrote: I just use immo rhinos as repressor tops and normal rhinos as rhonos.
That's actually not a bad idea. I bet half of the 40k community doesn't even know what an SoB Rhino looks like. Just purchase some flamer bits, throw them on the Rhino, and done! I'm not sure if tournaments will except it, but it's worth a shot.
To further differentiate mine, I gave mine removable front 'armor' and put a HF on the cupola turret. See this:
I have plenty of rhinos as well, without the immo conversion kit so it makes it really clear.
The Orks roared into action and by the end of their first turn had already reached the Sororitas lines -they weathered the intial fire and cut down the Inquisitor and her bodyguards, a vicious exchange of fire in the next few turns saw most of the orks burn and die to bolter fire, with Wazdakka being impaled by the Knights mighty Chainswaw. The Lootas weight of fire was truely devestating (taking off 4 hull pts from the Knight in a single turn!) and finally destroyed the Knight with overwatch even as it staggered towards them, chainsaw raised to cleave them in half, its melta having failed to damage the battlewagon from close range. A sinlge Ork Nob was devestating, singlehanded he dispatched two Sisters units and a immolator, suriving all the Sororitas could throw at him..............his Boss was less impressive, having gone backward to look for loot (not running away apparently) and only getting into the fight when the Knight was dispatched.
Whilst my Sisters were ok in shooting - they were absolutely dire in Close combat - I could roll nothing but 1 and 2's when I only needed asingle wound here and there to turn combats - the single Nob was on 1 wound and fought 4 rounds of combat on his own against two groups of sisters :(
I just had game with my AV13 list featuring Knight, 6 Repressors, and 3 Exorcists against the Farsight bomb with min troops and triple Riptides.
Primary was crusader and secondary BAO maelstrom which ranges from control a certain objective, be in enemy's deployment zone, kill a unit, or have your own deployment zone secured. MSU mech overwhelmed the Tau death star thanks to the objectives being spread far a part. My opponent had to leave early after finishing his turn at top of 4, but I was far ahead in secondary and had too many units for my opponent to win primary.
I really like quad Meltagun Dominions in a Repressor. Heavy Flamers are great against light armored support infantry that rely on being in cover. The meltaguns were also extremely useful against Riptides.
My single Imperial Knight died the moment Farsight bomb came in. Then again, my opponent fielded Shadowsun + 12 Fusion Blasters in the unit, so I'm not surprised.
Overall, fun match. The only thing I'm concerned about is Sky Blight Nids, flyer heavy lists, or strong gunline ordnance IG.
SabrX wrote: I really like quad Meltagun Dominions in a Repressor. Heavy Flamers are great against light armored support infantry that rely on being in cover. The meltaguns were also extremely useful against Riptides.
Repressors are ace! I won a big tourney in 6th with AV13 repressor spam. The Firepoints make all the difference.
Thanks for the pic. Your conversion looks awesome! I just showed it to the TO and gave me the green light.
Thanks! And it gives you something to do with all those extra penitent engines. As an FYI, I drilled a hole in the little flap on the front of the rhino and threw in a magnet then put one on the back. Now I can do Repressor or Immo. Also, I'm probably going to use IG dozers instead. The old ones are too small.
Chimera Dozers are great, they also have a rather big section that extends under the chassis, which makes it easy to magnetise (I used 4 magnets in a square formation).
So, finally got my list pretty much ready for the upcoming 2000pts escalation, could do with a bit of advice on organisation (force split up in 500 "bunches")
Game 2 - Add 500pts:
Jacobus
Rhino
Rhino
Immolator (MM, Laud H.)
Exorcist x 2
Game 3 - Add 510:
Priest (Power maul)
Priest
BSS 20 with Flamer, HF Rhino
Avenger
Game 4 - Add 500:
Canoness
Errant Knight
Canoness kinda needed for the Command squad. I'm thinking of dropping the 2 plasma Pistols for a Combi-Melta in the dominions, and get Litanies + Dozer blade with the spare.
Game 2 i might struggle against Flyers (and maybe more) but i'd have good mobility - we're playing Game 1: Vanguard, Game 2 Scourging objectives, Game 3urge the alien and Game 4: Relic
I think the double plasma pistol on the dominions might be a bit excessive. I'd swap it for a combi-melta and spend the points in game 2 for either an immolator or some storm bolters on the exorcists.
I agree that you lack AA a bit. I think getting an Aegis line + quad in the second game would be worth it, but what to drop to get it in?
Yeah, exactly. You also need to "keep the same list", so i could not take an aegis for game 2 and drop it in game 3....
being mostly in rhinos, i should be able to out-manoeuvre a flyer, but the risk is still there...
Saving the points on Plasma pistols is only 20points, so i'd need to find another 40 for the immo.... Exorcists already have Storm Bolters =)
Having said that it's a big risk so maybe a knight might be more cost effective. Anyway, I'll continue to use the Warhound whenever possible. Really like that it's now in the core rules, so it's down to my opponent to come up with a really good reason why he won't play it, rather than for me to come up with a reason why he should.
Losing yours turn one must have hurt though 
what would you suggest in that case?
