The Ruststalkers have the special rules: Doctrina Imperative, Dunestrider, Bulky, FURIOUS CHARGE, FnP (no further comment on that one, so i think it will be 5+)
Infiltrators have : Doctrina Imperative, Dunestrider, infiltrate, Bulky, Stealth and again FnP
Tombard wrote: There is no hint on the painting page =) The only teaser is the one line on the last page, nothing more.
A small article to the imperative doctrines is on page 28, but tells nothing new. The rule i posted on the previous page shows what they do: immense short time buffs for different situations. The article points out the obvious: the right doctrine in the right situation let you win games I suppose there are not only shooting buffs, but melee buffs, armor buffs etc.
@Requizen, i do not know all the english rule names, but i make an attempt at translating everything accordingly which is found on the equipment page i posted.
- Flechette Blaster: 12" S 2 AP - Salvopistol (5 shots), Rend
- Storm Carbine: 18" S4 AP - Assault 3
- Transsonic Weapons are listed 3:
Transsonic Blade: S +1 AP 5 Melee Transsonic
Transsonic Knife: S User AP 5 Melee Transsonic
Chorda-Claw: S User AP 5 Melee Transsonic Molecular Dissonance
Transsonic: to hit roll of 6 wounds automatically, ignoring toughness. In the first round of a melee all to wound rolls of 6 have AP2, in all other rounds EVERY wounds have AP 2. (This shows the weapon adjusting its frequency to the material they hit....weird tech inc :> )
Molecular Dissonance: One of the attacks the model has, gains the rule Fleshbane (i hope this is the correct one :/ )
- Taserstaff S +2 AP - Melee, Taser
Taser: to hit rolls of 6 = 2 additional hits
- Ghostbreaker Grenades Shooting: 8" S X AP 4 Assault 1 Explosive (3" Haywire? (Impuls on german) Neural Trauma
Melee: S3 AP 4 Haywire?
Neural Trauma: Always wound on a 4
- Converter Field: Invul.Save of 4. After passing one or more invul saves with this equipment, all units within 6" must pass blind tests, friendlies can reroll those
- Digital Weapons: nothing new
- Refractor Field (not sure about that translation) Invul Save of 5
- Data Grip Sting (what a name -_-) S User AP 5 Melee Datasting Haywire(?) Special Weapon
Datasting: additional attack at initiative 10, but no additional pile in move.
- Sicarian Battle Armor: Armor Save 4+ Invul Save 6+
- Data Acquisition Skull: +1 Morale and Acute Senses
That is all the equipment listet. The page with the weapon closeups has only fluffy descriptions, that, while very cool and special and quite mad, gain no further insight in gameplay, so i wont translate those :>
Edit: yes, they all have 2 wounds! I like.
Thanks! Data Grip String is probably "Data Tether" imo. Transsonic is kinda cool, but that'd require them to survive in assault for more than one round, and with that statline that might not be that easy... (WS4, T3, W2, 4+/6++). I dunno how one is supposed to run these guys as pure assault, unless there's a special rule in their statline that makes them harder to kill.
Charge them into combats where you have some Vanguard in as well, so that whatever they're fighting is at -1T?
That doesn't change the fact that T3/4+ models die to even Imperial Guardsmen easily. Without an Invis equivalent or somesuch, they're going to explode once they reach combat except against like a single model.
Well, we don't know what the Doctrina Imperatives do(beyond the one Tom posted where you gain +3BS at the penalty of losing 2WS), so we might have something that boosts up WS significantly.
First time poster long time reader, took a while to read through this thread. Based on what we know so far it looks as though the special rules and special weapon rules is really what will make the army viable. I am getting a very role specific play style from this army so synergy will be key. I am inclined to believe we will be getting something to make these units more viable in assault +1 to toughness or +1 to some save, in return there might be a penalty. This sounds like a fun game mechanic especially if you get to choose a buff and debuff you get to use each turn though I do love random tables. Overall I think the weapons and stat lines fit the overall feel of the army so far. I have high hopes that every unit will be viable in the codex since there will not be a huge selection out the gate.
You know, Infiltrate + Dunestrider is kinda gross. :-p
Deploying even 18" away within LOS of something soft that you want removed, means you presumably get 9" during your movement phase, and then only need to make a 9" charge... which you get a bonus 3" towards as well.
So a below average charge roll means these guys will be shooting and assaulting a unit of their choice, on Turn 1.
Depending on targets, that could be quite nice, and certainly distruptive.
Deploying even 18" away within LOS of something soft that you want removed, means you presumably get 9" during your movement phase, and then only need to make a 9" charge... which you get a bonus 3" towards as well.
So a below average charge roll means these guys will be shooting and assaulting a unit of their choice, on Turn 1.
Depending on targets, that could be quite nice, and certainly distruptive.
Deploying even 18" away within LOS of something soft that you want removed, means you presumably get 9" during your movement phase, and then only need to make a 9" charge... which you get a bonus 3" towards as well.
So a below average charge roll means these guys will be shooting and assaulting a unit of their choice, on Turn 1.
Depending on targets, that could be quite nice, and certainly distruptive.
You can't charge Infiltrators on turn 1.
I thought that was only if you Outflank, but a quick look at the BRB confirms you guys are right.
Good models so far - nice to see GW doing some good stuff again - with the FW stuff and some other bits and pieces from other ranges should have a really lovely looking army
that aside despite how much I love the models, the rules are terrible. They have lots of special rules they can get, but they are 2 wounds T3 models that cost about the same as a Tyranid warrior, and we all know how much those get used.
The chances of them being around round 2 of assault aren't high. Anything S6 or above IDs them and prevents them from getting a FnP save. Between getting shot, overwatch and blows struck against them I don't see many of them striking in round 2 at 30+pts a model.
Ruleswise I think they have a lot of goodies, but are the worst unit we have seen so far.
Of course they do have haywire weapons which are amazing.
We also don't fully know what the doctrines do yet, but from what we've seen they are pretty potent. It's quite possible they'll get a toughness boost from one of them.
nudibranch wrote: We also don't fully know what the doctrines do yet, but from what we've seen they are pretty potent. It's quite possible they'll get a toughness boost from one of them.
If the one that was kinda leaked for the bs + for Ws - is a indicator. these should generally be very cool. Im expecting the obvious tank hunter for something something trade off.
well the T3 thing bugs me, i must say. all of the rules are great and the doctrines might prove as awesome tactics and gameplay. tactical decisions are great! i hope there is a toughness boost or soemthing like that.
I am missing transports as of now. yes, those guys are quite fast, but if they get shot to bits while running for the objectives they dont score
concerning the FEEL of the army, their aesthetics and fluff of weapons, the general madness and strange tech...this might be the rgeatest 40k army to date, at leats for me
Ok, I was just planning on getting a box of the troops to make some Inquisitorial henchmen, but no, GW had to go and make these things just more awesome. Now I have to spend a poopload of money, and start a new army.
Maybe it's time to unload part of the CSM army and start a small allied detachment. I don't even care about the rules, they just look that good.
I think the rules for them are actually quite nice. Like others has said, the "orders" and how those interact will make or break them. An extra 3BS for a WS downgrade? umm, yes!
Maybe a +1 T for a -1 str? Would be a fun and evolving army to play, infiltrate them and make them defensive for the first round of combat then swap them to a more deadly stance when they all AP2.. sounds lovely to me.
I'm excited to start collecting these guys and getting back into 40k because of them.
Okay, I think I've found out what buggs me about recent GW kits a lot. I don't mind dual purpose, where it makes sense. Say the Hydra and whatever it was packet with. Similar model, vastly different unit - one is an anti-air tank, the other an artillery platform.
Here however we have a lot of units that are pretty much identical model- and typewise. We have this walker... you can have him with a cannon or a lance! That way he's either heavy support or Fast attack. And we have this here infantry kit. It's either assasins with mele weapons or assasins with ranged weapons! That way you have not one, but two VASTLY DIFFERENT UNITS and your codex does not look so empty when it comes out!
Why not just give the same unit two build options (ranged or melee)? No, lets make them two different codex entries and invent 5 more USRs.
I like the new models, not as techno-horror as FW Mechanicum, but the steampunky look is growing on me. However, the way crunch is handled is seriously annoying.
As i can read on page 28 on the new WD:
They say, that with the Doctrina-Imperative you are going to be like a Tech-Priest, commanding your army from above.
Knowing so far that we have seen 6 diffrent model and waiting for one more (the spider walker).
I going to ask my self, will we see a HQ Ad Mech, if the player is going to be a Tech-Priest useing Doctrina-Imperative through the noosphare?
I think I prefer the flash gordon retrofuture FW style more than the kitbash steampunk that the plastics from GW proper are getting. I don't (outside of the thallax and derivatives) actually *like* the FW style but I do prefer it to this stuff. In any case, I'm happy that admech fans finally get some plastics to add to their collections and game with.
Deploying even 18" away within LOS of something soft that you want removed, means you presumably get 9" during your movement phase, and then only need to make a 9" charge... which you get a bonus 3" towards as well.
So a below average charge roll means these guys will be shooting and assaulting a unit of their choice, on Turn 1.
Depending on targets, that could be quite nice, and certainly distruptive.
You can't charge Infiltrators on turn 1.
But if all you want to do is infiltrate and then run up and unload your rending pistols onto something. Well that might be alright.
You know... a +1 T / -1 S Doctrine would do wonders for the Ruststalkers. Furious Charge puts them right back up to their base S, and the +1 T would put them outside most ID.
You do that on the turn they charge in, and by the next round of combat you presumably let it lapse (or choose a different Doctrine), and are getting all those attacks at AP2.
Oh, and if you synergized with Infiltrators (synergy being something this whole army seems to be about), you're lowering the opponents I by 1, meaning now AP2 Ruststalkers hit most targets first.
Lamech wrote: As i can read on page 28 on the new WD:
They say, that with the Doctrina-Imperative you are going to be like a Tech-Priest, commanding your army from above.
Knowing so far that we have seen 6 diffrent model and waiting for one more (the spider walker).
I going to ask my self, will we see a HQ Ad Mech, if the player is going to be a Tech-Priest useing Doctrina-Imperative through the noosphare?
Whelp that's kinda sad I really wanted a HQ. And considering the guy in the middle of the blueprint looks like the leader of the stalkers.
It's disappointing as a "leader " figure would be so cool, but then again when was the last army without a clampack.
Lamech wrote: As i can read on page 28 on the new WD:
They say, that with the Doctrina-Imperative you are going to be like a Tech-Priest, commanding your army from above.
Knowing so far that we have seen 6 diffrent model and waiting for one more (the spider walker).
I going to ask my self, will we see a HQ Ad Mech, if the player is going to be a Tech-Priest useing Doctrina-Imperative through the noosphare?
Whelp that's kinda sad I really wanted a HQ. And considering the guy in the middle of the blueprint looks like the leader of the stalkers.
It's disappointing as a "leader " figure would be so cool, but then again when was the last army without a clampack.
If there's not one in Skitarii, there for sure will be one in AdMech. I can't really imagine a world in which a "full army codex" doesn't have at least one unit in every single slot. It hasn't been that way since, what, 3rd ed Necrons?
...it looks like I am going to Salute2015 just to talk to people, take some pics and maybe buy FW t-shirt, but only if I have enough money left in my budget...
inquisitorlewis wrote: I waited all weekend for these pictures. I am not disappointed. I look forward to owning a little bit of everything from this release.
The only thing so far I probably wont get are the walkers, I just don't like them, the assault ones seem nice but $300 for a full squad is just ridiculous, I would much rather just get 2 knights for the money and the shooting version just seems incredibly week for the points.
Ok so I was thinking, sure, these things are T3, their biggest weakness is going to be the mass of plasma and melta that we see across different armies... but then, that's what Rangers are for, aren't they? Move Through Cover, Precision Shots, 30" range rapid fire guns. You keep the Rangers putting pressure on squad special weapons to knock them out, taking out Plasma Guns and power fists from Tac squads to make sure your Infiltrators and Ruststalkers are unharassed by anything that they can't make saves against.
If you really need it, you use those Balistarius to pop vehicles and put more precision wounds on squads with those twin-linked autocannons.
Then, to add insult to injury, you screen with Vanguard, assaulting with the cheap guys first to get that -1T, letting your opponent spend their overwatch on Vanguard so your Infiltrators can get in there and start destroying things left and right.
It's actually a pretty sick army so far, if used by a good strategist. The real proof in the pudding will be whatever else comes next. They need some fat blast weapon, and hopefully the Onager delivers.
on page 7of the new WD, there are 2 small screenshots of the new Codex.
I took the second one, because it says something about formation and the special rules...
It is so small that i only can read the formation about the Ironstrider, which says, they will have flank attack and sharp minds but you will need 3 of them and there is no futher restriction
So, are the Skitarii boxes able to make both rangers and vanguard? And same thing with the walkers? They have 2 different kinds for each listed on GW's store, or are they just listing the same thing twice with different names or something silly like that?
Hulksmash wrote: I just can't wait for this. Current shopping list:
Datacard
Codex
5xBoxes of Skitarii
6xWalker things
3xBoxes of Sicarians
And I'll probably be adding a tank walker thing or two to this.....
same goes here for me
Tomorrow i will get my Walkers an Skitarii
I'm holding off as long as possible to take as much advantage of a 25% off sale as possible. I'll buy my codex locally but everything else will hopefully come from the sale
Hulksmash wrote: I just can't wait for this. Current shopping list:
Datacard Codex 5xBoxes of Skitarii 6xWalker things 3xBoxes of Sicarians
And I'll probably be adding a tank walker thing or two to this.....
same goes here for me Tomorrow i will get my Walkers an Skitarii
I'm holding off as long as possible to take as much advantage of a 25% off sale as possible. I'll buy my codex locally but everything else will hopefully come from the sale
i got an instand 15% off just spoke with my local dealer, that i will buy the whole army at his store no shipping costs no waiting
Lamech wrote: As i can read on page 28 on the new WD:
They say, that with the Doctrina-Imperative you are going to be like a Tech-Priest, commanding your army from above.
Knowing so far that we have seen 6 diffrent model and waiting for one more (the spider walker).
I going to ask my self, will we see a HQ Ad Mech, if the player is going to be a Tech-Priest useing Doctrina-Imperative through the noosphare?
Whelp that's kinda sad I really wanted a HQ. And considering the guy in the middle of the blueprint looks like the leader of the stalkers.
It's disappointing as a "leader " figure would be so cool, but then again when was the last army without a clampack.
If there's not one in Skitarii, there for sure will be one in AdMech. I can't really imagine a world in which a "full army codex" doesn't have at least one unit in every single slot. It hasn't been that way since, what, 3rd ed Necrons?
People are using the Harlies as a measuring stick, that and the recent scan of the Doctrines. I'm swinging against the idea we will get a HQ.
Lamech wrote: As i can read on page 28 on the new WD:
They say, that with the Doctrina-Imperative you are going to be like a Tech-Priest, commanding your army from above.
Knowing so far that we have seen 6 diffrent model and waiting for one more (the spider walker).
I going to ask my self, will we see a HQ Ad Mech, if the player is going to be a Tech-Priest useing Doctrina-Imperative through the noosphare?
Whelp that's kinda sad I really wanted a HQ. And considering the guy in the middle of the blueprint looks like the leader of the stalkers.
It's disappointing as a "leader " figure would be so cool, but then again when was the last army without a clampack.
If there's not one in Skitarii, there for sure will be one in AdMech. I can't really imagine a world in which a "full army codex" doesn't have at least one unit in every single slot. It hasn't been that way since, what, 3rd ed Necrons?
People are using the Harlies as a measuring stick, that and the recent scan of the Doctrines. I'm swinging against the idea we will get a HQ.
I'm thinking:
Skitarii = Harlequins
AdMech = Eldar
Skitarii might not have it, but then again, it's a mini-codex. AdMech is supposed to be the "full army". I would be highly flabbergasted if they released a true Codex that couldn't run a Combined Arms Detachment.
The combat ones are actually pretty good. The shooty ones less so. I'm pretty sure the 6 I'm getting are going to be one large squad of CC ones but I'll probably magnetize so I can run the gunners too
I think the Walkers are pretty solid. They are super cheap and have rules that deal directly with one of the two weaknesses of walkers. Their Dunestrider rule makes them pretty good skirmish units IMO.
Interesting models, I this is way more in line with what people expected AdMech units to look like. I like them, though the infiltrators are posed really awkwardly, as if they're contorting their bodies to change directions mid-run.
The ruststalkers look amazing though! I really hope they are viable as I would love to have these guys charging forward while the rangers sit back and shoot. This release has officially become worthy of investment to me at this point.
RedFox wrote: I love those infiltrators, looks like a R2-D2 head on a C-3PO body, weird stuff
Yeah, I thought that having dome-headed guys with tasers was an amusing design decision from a company that is totally not influenced by anything else out there in the world...
Yea I am not sure what the Sicarians are supposed to be killing, they have too few attacks to charge into swarms, and aren't strong enough in close combat to hit MEQ with any effectiveness. They wound T4 on a 5+, not good odds even with an AP2 weapon in the second round. You'll lose the first round of combat because you won't cause any wounds...
I guess it will all depend on Doctrina Imperatives. We'll at least start to get codex leaks next week, maybe we'll finally find out what the imperatives are.
ultimentra wrote: Yea I am not sure what the Sicarians are supposed to be killing, they have too few attacks to charge into swarms, and aren't strong enough in close combat to hit MEQ with any effectiveness. They wound T4 on a 5+, not good odds even with an AP2 weapon in the second round. You'll lose the first round of combat because you won't cause any wounds...
I guess it will all depend on Doctrina Imperatives. We'll at least start to get codex leaks next week, maybe we'll finally find out what the imperatives are.
Aren't they S4 with furious charge and tasers? St7 on charge?
I may be confused with the other units.
Those poses are woeful imo. The guy on the left looks likes hes dancing, the middle guys legs are way too far apart and the guy on the right looks like hes fallen asleep.
I really hope you can pose them more realistically or dynamically.
I did some quick testing with the Ruststalkers against a 10 man marine squad. I did 5 rounds, and the marines all died on either the first or second turn. The ones that did survive the first turn (21 Str5 attacks with auto wound on 6s to hit, AND AP2 on 6s to wound) quickly died the second turn when the AP2 on all attacks kicked in. The fleshbane attacks from those claws really helped to. Got some more 6s from those to get more AP2.
The average wounds the Stalkers took was around 2-3, so atleast one stalker died every time.
This was all without any special weapons, or any upgrades bought (since we don't know about them all). Doctrina Imperatives could possibly make them even better in CC, or give other nice bonuses.
That said, I am impressed with the first impressions. Against a 5 man termie squad with Power Fists they got wrecked hard though. Managed to kill maybe 2 terminators, but since they are only T3 they die real fast against power fists, and instant death won't help the 2 wounds or the FnP.. 6++ isn't that great either. Maybe saved one of them during the 5 rounds against the termies.
ultimentra wrote: Yea I am not sure what the Sicarians are supposed to be killing, they have too few attacks to charge into swarms, and aren't strong enough in close combat to hit MEQ with any effectiveness. They wound T4 on a 5+, not good odds even with an AP2 weapon in the second round. You'll lose the first round of combat because you won't cause any wounds...
I guess it will all depend on Doctrina Imperatives. We'll at least start to get codex leaks next week, maybe we'll finally find out what the imperatives are.
Aren't they S4 with furious charge and tasers? St7 on charge? I may be confused with the other units.
they are S4 with furious charge and if they use Transsonic sword they will get +1S first round D2 on a 6
if they use Transsonic knife they will have still S4 first round D2 on a 6
Hulksmash wrote: I just can't wait for this. Current shopping list:
Datacard
Codex
5xBoxes of Skitarii
6xDragoons
3xBoxes of Sicarians
And I'll probably be adding a tank walker thing or two to this.....
Dude... pro-tip, but I have been kit-bashing for two days and those Dust Wildfire/Honey Walkers plus Dragoon/Ballestieri bits really go a long way to saving a pile of money. I should have pics soon, but you can save a fortune with just a little green-stuff. ;-)
By the end of the week i'll have eight Walkers having only spent about $180 (including the cost of the two actual GW Ad-Mech Walker kits)
Ok so I was thinking, sure, these things are T3, their biggest weakness is going to be the mass of plasma and melta that we see across different armies...
Or you know, autocannons. Str7 Ap4 is gonna get a lot of use against these guys.
Or assault cannons
Or HMP
Or lots of things out there that neuter T3 4+ 2W.
alleus wrote: I did some quick testing with the Ruststalkers against a 10 man marine squad. I did 5 rounds, and the marines all died on either the first or second turn. The ones that did survive the first turn (21 Str7 attacks with auto wound on 6s to hit, AND AP2 on 6s to wound) quickly died the second turn when the AP2 on all attacks kicked in. The fleshbane attacks from those claws really helped to. Got some more 6s from those to get more AP2.
The average wounds the Stalkers took was around 2-3, so atleast one stalker died every time.
This was all without any special weapons, or any upgrades bought (since we don't know about them all). Doctrina Imperatives could possibly make them even better in CC, or give other nice bonuses.
That said, I am impressed with the first impressions. Against a 5 man termie squad with Power Fists they got wrecked hard though. Managed to kill maybe 2 terminators, but since they are only T3 they die real fast against power fists, and instant death won't help the 2 wounds or the FnP.. 6++ isn't that great either. Maybe saved one of them during the 5 rounds against the termies.
ultimentra wrote: Yea I am not sure what the Sicarians are supposed to be killing, they have too few attacks to charge into swarms, and aren't strong enough in close combat to hit MEQ with any effectiveness. They wound T4 on a 5+, not good odds even with an AP2 weapon in the second round. You'll lose the first round of combat because you won't cause any wounds...
I guess it will all depend on Doctrina Imperatives. We'll at least start to get codex leaks next week, maybe we'll finally find out what the imperatives are.
Aren't they S4 with furious charge and tasers? St7 on charge?
I may be confused with the other units.
they are S4 with furious charge
and if they use Transsonic sword they will get +1S
first round D2 on a 6
if they use Transsonic knife they will have still S4
first round D2 on a 6
They're a base of S4, so they'd be S5 on the charge and S6 on the charge with the Swords. The Infiltrators with Taser Goads would always be S6. I'm not really a fan of that Flachette pistol though, I'd rather have Stub Carbines, myself.
alleus wrote: I did some quick testing with the Ruststalkers against a 10 man marine squad. I did 5 rounds, and the marines all died on either the first or second turn. The ones that did survive the first turn (21 Str7 attacks with auto wound on 6s to hit, AND AP2 on 6s to wound) quickly died the second turn when the AP2 on all attacks kicked in. The fleshbane attacks from those claws really helped to. Got some more 6s from those to get more AP2.
The average wounds the Stalkers took was around 2-3, so atleast one stalker died every time.
This was all without any special weapons, or any upgrades bought (since we don't know about them all). Doctrina Imperatives could possibly make them even better in CC, or give other nice bonuses.
That said, I am impressed with the first impressions. Against a 5 man termie squad with Power Fists they got wrecked hard though. Managed to kill maybe 2 terminators, but since they are only T3 they die real fast against power fists, and instant death won't help the 2 wounds or the FnP.. 6++ isn't that great either. Maybe saved one of them during the 5 rounds against the termies.
did you do your test with the basic weapon?
- transonic razor (Transonic)
- chordaclaw (molecular Dissonace)
- Grenades
or did you do yout test with two Transonic Blades?
alleus wrote: I did some quick testing with the Ruststalkers against a 10 man marine squad. I did 5 rounds, and the marines all died on either the first or second turn. The ones that did survive the first turn (21 Str5 attacks with auto wound on 6s to hit, AND AP2 on 6s to wound) quickly died the second turn when the AP2 on all attacks kicked in. The fleshbane attacks from those claws really helped to. Got some more 6s from those to get more AP2.
The average wounds the Stalkers took was around 2-3, so atleast one stalker died every time.
This was all without any special weapons, or any upgrades bought (since we don't know about them all). Doctrina Imperatives could possibly make them even better in CC, or give other nice bonuses.
That said, I am impressed with the first impressions. Against a 5 man termie squad with Power Fists they got wrecked hard though. Managed to kill maybe 2 terminators, but since they are only T3 they die real fast against power fists, and instant death won't help the 2 wounds or the FnP.. 6++ isn't that great either. Maybe saved one of them during the 5 rounds against the termies.
did you do your test with the basic weapon?
- transonic razor (Transonic)
- chordaclaw (molecular Dissonace)
- Grenades
or did you do yout test with two Transonic Blades?
Ah, I used the razor and claw. So str5, not 6. My bad. The claws give the fleshbane, which did well with the rerolls.
And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.
You know. If that formation really does offer Walker units (apparently 2x Dragoon, 1x Ballesterius in that formation of units), Outflank and Acute senses, I am not terribly impressed.
Those models already have wonderful mobility, and between a movement phase w/Dunestrider and a run/charge with it, Dragoons already have great threat range.
They gain almost nothing from Outflanking, showing up late, and waiting yet another turn to assault.
As to those who say Dragoons clearly trump Ballesterius, I think you're underselling that Cognis shooting, which suddenly makes them viable anti-air on the cheap, all without gimping them. Oh, and a fair number of anti-tank options will be reticent of assaulting them, and possibly eating a really withering overwatch.
alleus wrote: And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.
The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.
Well, math-hammer is never correct for me anyway. Math-hammer says 10 Guardsmen won't kill 3 termies, but that has happened to me, so yeah.
I just like doing it they way it would actually happen when I play with them, with dice. I did 5 rounds which gave me consistent results, good enough for me.
Requizen wrote: Oh, the Pistol is Shred and not Rend.... not nearly as good.
to be honest, if it was rending that would be really really good.
A 5 man unit infiltrates comes up and unloads 25 shots at you. Take 3 wounds with no saves before it charges you.
alleus wrote: And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.
The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.
Well, math-hammer is never correct for me anyway. Math-hammer says 10 Guardsmen won't kill 3 termies, but that has happened to me, so yeah.
I just like doing it they way it would actually happen when I play with them, with dice. I did 5 rounds which gave me consistent results, good enough for me.
Mathhammer doesn't give ALLÂ results; mathhammer provides statistically expected results.
alleus wrote: And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.
The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.
Well, math-hammer is never correct for me anyway. Math-hammer says 10 Guardsmen won't kill 3 termies, but that has happened to me, so yeah.
I just like doing it they way it would actually happen when I play with them, with dice. I did 5 rounds which gave me consistent results, good enough for me.
Mathhammer doesn't give ALLÂ results; mathhammer provides statistically expected results.
Well, you are free to do as much math-hammer as you want my friend. Get back with the results, would be interesting to compare :-)
alleus wrote: And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.
The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.
Well, math-hammer is never correct for me anyway. Math-hammer says 10 Guardsmen won't kill 3 termies, but that has happened to me, so yeah.
I just like doing it they way it would actually happen when I play with them, with dice. I did 5 rounds which gave me consistent results, good enough for me.
I always like quotes like that. Statistics works correctly for you every single day, you just do not understand what it is and what is it used for.
Take your dice results over a period of a thousand games and check with those calculations again. Statistics isn't fortune-telling. It will not tell you what the outcome will be, just what the outcome is likely to be.
They're a base of S4, so they'd be S5 on the charge and S6 on the charge with the Swords. The Infiltrators with Taser Goads would always be S6. I'm not really a fan of that Flachette pistol though, I'd rather have Stub Carbines, myself.
the pistol will give them +1 attack, the carbine wont.
with shred the pistol will wound T4 a little more than the carbine. Will wound T5 a lot more, unable to wound T6 or 7 where the carbine reigns supreme.
Also better between 13-18" as the pistol is short ranged.
They're a base of S4, so they'd be S5 on the charge and S6 on the charge with the Swords. The Infiltrators with Taser Goads would always be S6. I'm not really a fan of that Flachette pistol though, I'd rather have Stub Carbines, myself.
the pistol will give them +1 attack, the carbine wont.
with shred the pistol will wound T4 a little more than the carbine. Will wound T5 a lot more, unable to wound T6 or 7 where the carbine reigns supreme.
Also better between 13-18" as the pistol is short ranged.
The two load outs are stubcarbine (18" S4 assault 3) and power sword OR taser goad and the pistol. Both cost 35pts per model. So both load outs seem to have their pros and cons.
As for the stalkers, their load outs are either transonic razor, chrodclaw and mindscrambler grenades (which let you strike at initiative through cover and are haywire grenades) OR two transonic blades (+1S). Both cost 30pts per model.
Lamech wrote: on page 7of the new WD, there are 2 small screenshots of the new Codex.
I took the second one, because it says something about formation and the special rules...
It is so small that i only can read the formation about the Ironstrider, which says, they will have flank attack and sharp minds but you will need 3 of them and there is no futher restriction
Spoiler:
formation include 2 dragoons and 1 ironstrider ?
that would be very cool, 3 walkers that can outflank and do some good damage !
Lamech wrote: on page 7of the new WD, there are 2 small screenshots of the new Codex.
I took the second one, because it says something about formation and the special rules...
It is so small that i only can read the formation about the Ironstrider, which says, they will have flank attack and sharp minds but you will need 3 of them and there is no futher restriction
Spoiler:
formation include 2 dragoons and 1 ironstrider ?
that would be very cool, 3 walkers that can outflank and do some good damage !
the pistol will give them +1 attack, the carbine wont.
with shred the pistol will wound T4 a little more than the carbine. Will wound T5 a lot more, unable to wound T6 or 7 where the carbine reigns supreme.
Also better between 13-18" as the pistol is short ranged.
The two load outs are stubcarbine (18" S4 assault 3) and power sword OR taser goad and the pistol. Both cost 35pts per model. So both load outs seem to have their pros and cons.
As for the stalkers, their load outs are either transonic razor, chrodclaw and mindscrambler grenades (which let you strike at initiative through cover and are haywire grenades) OR two transonic blades (+1S). Both cost 30pts per model.
Not saying the stubcarbine is bad. With the sword it is at least different. I think one might mix them with the pistol and goad.
I think the razor+claw+grenades looks better than the dual blade so am going to be running them that way.
alleus wrote: And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.
The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.
Well, math-hammer is never correct for me anyway. Math-hammer says 10 Guardsmen won't kill 3 termies, but that has happened to me, so yeah.
I just like doing it they way it would actually happen when I play with them, with dice. I did 5 rounds which gave me consistent results, good enough for me.
I always like quotes like that. Statistics works correctly for you every single day, you just do not understand what it is and what is it used for.
Take your dice results over a period of a thousand games and check with those calculations again. Statistics isn't fortune-telling. It will not tell you what the outcome will be, just what the outcome is likely to be.
Whats the old phrase "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
Exergy wrote: Not saying the stubcarbine is bad. With the sword it is at least different. I think one might mix them with the pistol and goad.
I think the razor+claw+grenades looks better than the dual blade so am going to be running them that way.
Agreed, striking at I4 through cover is pretty import for the unit. That being said the stalkers seem to do well against walkers/vehicles regardless of loadout as long as you give the leader prehensile dataspike for 4 S4 (S5 for stalkers with furious charge) haywire attacks on the charge at I4 (it's a specialist weapon so no +1 attack for an extra hand weapon) but you get 1 additional S4 haywire attack at I10 thanks to it's special rule. it only costs 10 points so seems well worth it.
The interesting thing with the infiltrator variant is infiltrate, stealth and reducing BS, WS, I and LD by 1 of all enemy units within 6". It makes them pretty brutal against I4 units in the open.
So far both variants of sicarian seem workable, though Doctrina Imperatives will probably be what makes/breaks them.
EDIT:
quickfuze wrote: Can anyone translate the basic point cost of the unit and how many models that is?
Infiltrators are 185 points for the first 5 and then 35 points for each additional model. Stalkers are 160 points for the first 5 and then 30 points for each additional model.
160 for the Ruststalkers, 185 for the Infiltrators.
5 models per unit before any other upgrades, as far as I can tell.
Edit: Ninja'd
But yeah. Unfortunately, I think these guys are going to suffer from all the common problems of assault units: The Assault phase is weak. Too much shooting to override their T3 and too much overwatch..
HOWEVER. Doctrina Imperatives could change that drastically, as could a potential transport vehicle, and once they're on the table, we may find them deadly effective when paired up with the other units in the Codex.
Not to mention, if there is indeed a fuller Adeptus Mechanicus Codex, they may get more units and models to support them.
And I still think Imperial Knights are going to be a LOW in this. They're in the background of so many pics!!
And as to the stuff about mathhammer, I honestly agree. Mathhammer is not representative of the typical game. Statistically? Sure, absolutely, over hundreds or thousands of games, the dice will show their statistics.. But I think that it is BECAUSE of mathhammer that people get discouraged about certain units, or even playing the game at all. My Tac squad survived in combat against a full squad of Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield terminators for 4 rounds, and actually killed more than they lost, which mathhammer suggests is statistically improbable, but an amazing thing happened on the battlefield that nobody could predict, and the game was more FUN because of it.
alleus wrote: And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.
The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.
Well, math-hammer is never correct for me anyway. Math-hammer says 10 Guardsmen won't kill 3 termies, but that has happened to me, so yeah.
I just like doing it they way it would actually happen when I play with them, with dice. I did 5 rounds which gave me consistent results, good enough for me.
lol
Concerning the new mini, they're good, but I prefer the skitari. Wonder what will come after the dune spider walker. Hope that these rumoured half man half spider turns out to be true
alleus wrote: And yes, I rolled dice. Math-hammer is fine, but it's boring. I like dem dice.
The problem is that the results aren't representative that way.
Well, math-hammer is never correct for me anyway. Math-hammer says 10 Guardsmen won't kill 3 termies, but that has happened to me, so yeah.
I just like doing it they way it would actually happen when I play with them, with dice. I did 5 rounds which gave me consistent results, good enough for me.
You're math hammering wrong then. On average, 10 guardsmen firing twice will kill 0.55 of a Terminator. But that's only half the story, that's the average, beyond that you can go hardcore math hammer and determine they have a...
56.9% chance of killing 0 Terminators 32.5% chance of killing 1 Terminator 8.8% chance of killing 2 Terminators 1.5% chance of killing 3 Terminators 0.2% chance of killing more than 3 Terminators.
So math hammering tells me that your 10 guardsmen killing 3 terminators was a 1 in 67 chance of happening.
Since determining the full distribution like that is a bit of a pain in the arse, we typically just talk in averages, knowing that our average does have some distribution but not bothering to actually calculate it.
And I still think Imperial Knights are going to be a LOW in this. They're in the background of so many pics!!
we'll have to see, but my gut feeling is they won't, because so many of the pictures feature multiple knights. which would be odd if it was a LOW choice. I think it's just GW trying to fill their screens with some big centerpeice stuff.
I wish they'd used a different word than "Taser", because it's a brand name that doesn't have any meaning of its own. Still, those forked swords are kind of gorgeous, especially with the shown black-blue gradient paint scheme.
I don't like the dome heads, but that is by far the easiest part to replace.
Frozen Ocean wrote: I wish they'd used a different word than "Taser", because it's a brand name that doesn't have any meaning of its own. Still, those forked swords are kind of gorgeous, especially with the shown black-blue gradient paint scheme.
I don't like the dome heads, but that is by far the easiest part to replace.
So are words like 'Xerox' and 'Escalator'. Brands that became used for more than their brand.
I prefer the Ruststalkers. The leader of that group just looks like the coolest dood out of the bunch. Way too much awesomeness packed into that guy.
OTOH as far as naming conventions go why didn't they call it a 'Tesla lance', or 'lightning lance', or going along with the previous weapons a 'galvanic lance'
So many other ways to have gone with that.
FTR. I call Coca-Cola "Coke" all others are just cola, I call tissues, "tissues" not Kleenex, and I don't "Hoover" I vaccuum.
I usually say copy machine instead of "Xerox" though I have used "Xerox" as a verb, I think.
OTOH as far as naming conventions go why didn't they call it a 'Tesla lance', or 'lightning lance', or going along with the previous weapons a 'galvanic lance'
So many other ways to have gone with that.
FTR. I call Coca-Cola "Coke" all others are just cola, I call tissues, "tissues" not Kleenex, and I don't "Hoover" I vaccuum.
I usually say copy machine instead of "Xerox" though I have used "Xerox" as a verb, I think.
Now you're just being facetious.
Anyway, I think the Vanguard are best kept in cheap 100 pt squads base, maybe with the Omnispex thrown in as well. They can pump out a lot of shots, and are good screeners for other assault units, so charging them forward and having them die is kind of the idea.
Meanwhile, the Rangers are definitely solid with the Arc weaponry, but why bother with any close combat weapons when they're firing from such range? The great part is the Move Through Cover and Relentless, meaning they should always be able to move to get towards objectives and good firing lanes.
The Plasma Culiver is nice, but just too expensive for my tastes. I'd happily put them on Vanguard, but those guys are going to die so fast anyway...
OH I forgot about Delphan Gruss! I know they won't (cause they don't touch specialist games) but it would be nice to see him in the codex and a 28mm model for him...
WrentheFaceless wrote: So since the Grey Knights technically have their own "Forgeworld" do they get their own color scheme? Eh eh?
Honestly, why not? The lore of 40k is so vague and full of conjecture, there's honestly nothing stopping you from painting them bright cyan if you want.
Frozen Ocean wrote: I wish they'd used a different word than "Taser", because it's a brand name that doesn't have any meaning of its own.
You mean if someone were to tell you they'd been tasered, you'd need further explanation?
Would you require further explanation if someone said they were hit by a Peugeot or a Lamborghini?
Azreal13 wrote:Brand names frequently become genericised, this is one of them.
Or do you not take a couple of aspirin washed down with coke if the noise of the hoover aggravates your headache?
I wouldn't no, but Coke and aspirin are very bad examples (though I would still say "painkiller"). Not only because both are names for materials/substance, whereas, like "Hoover", "Taser" is not.
Aspirin is a particularly bad example because its use as a generic term is a complicated matter. Firstly, chemical compounds have a discoverer and a subsequent naming scheme; it is inherently a generic term; "aspirin" and "acetylsalicylic acid" are inseparable just as "spotted bass" is inseparable from "Micropterus punctulatus", but there is a barrier in place because of the trademark placed on the compound due to its value, so people are making aspirin but are not allowed to refer to it as such due to copyright. It's complicated further by the loss of the trademark in many countries for many reasons, losing that barrier completely, and both the sheer age and reproducibility of the compound. However, the main reason I wouldn't refer to a painkiller as "aspirin" is because not all painkillers contain aspirin.
"I wouldn't refer to Pepsi as "Coke", though I might refer to a supermarket-brand cola as "Coke" because it is in clear imitation of Coca-Cola. You can market anything you like as a "cola", even though the term did come from the original Coca-Cola from 1886 (from kola nut).
I would not call a vacuum cleaner a "Hoover" unless it was actually manufactured by Hoover; my Dyson is a vacuum, my Hoover is a vacuum. My Hoover is not a Dyson; my Dyson is not a Hoover. Just because it's fairly common slang doesn't make it correct or accurate.
Calling them "Taser" weapons is no different to referring to giving the Mechanicus a "Glock Lance" or giving their walkers the "Porsche" special rule and "Microsoft Windows" in place of "Doctrina Imperialis". Besides, it's not even right, as the rules don't reflect anything to do with them being stun weapons. They could have called them electro weapons, a callback to the electro-priest everyone keeps mentioning, or they could have called them electroshock weapons or something else that better carries the implication that the weapon's lethal electricity is arcing between targets or frying single ones.
drbored wrote:
So are words like 'Xerox' and 'Escalator'. Brands that became used for more than their brand.
Referring to just about everything by a brand name is really more of an American thing (e.g. Jell-O).
The worst part about it being called "Taser" isn't that it's wrong, though, it's that it's a real-world company that makes real products with that name. It just seems so unfitting next to things like "plasma caliver" and "radium jezzail". At least the Necron obsession with human physicists is based on the names Gauss and Tesla being long-standing sci-fi tropes.
"I wouldn't refer to Pepsi as "Coke", though I might refer to a supermarket-brand cola as "Coke" because it is in clear imitation of Coca-Cola. You can market anything you like as a "cola", even though the term did come from the original Coca-Cola from 1886 (from kola nut).
you wouldn't but in some areas "coke" is used to refer to ANY soda.
"I wouldn't refer to Pepsi as "Coke", though I might refer to a supermarket-brand cola as "Coke" because it is in clear imitation of Coca-Cola. You can market anything you like as a "cola", even though the term did come from the original Coca-Cola from 1886 (from kola nut).
you wouldn't but in some areas "coke" is used to refer to ANY soda.
Frozen Ocean wrote: I wish they'd used a different word than "Taser", because it's a brand name that doesn't have any meaning of its own.
You mean if someone were to tell you they'd been tasered, you'd need further explanation?
Would you require further explanation if someone said they were hit by a Peugeot or a Lamborghini?
Azreal13 wrote:Brand names frequently become genericised, this is one of them.
Or do you not take a couple of aspirin washed down with coke if the noise of the hoover aggravates your headache?
I wouldn't no, but Coke and aspirin are very bad examples (though I would still say "painkiller"). Not only because both are names for materials/substance, whereas, like "Hoover", "Taser" is not.
Aspirin is a particularly bad example because its use as a generic term is a complicated matter. Firstly, chemical compounds have a discoverer and a subsequent naming scheme; it is inherently a generic term; "aspirin" and "acetylsalicylic acid" are inseparable just as "spotted bass" is inseparable from "Micropterus punctulatus", but there is a barrier in place because of the trademark placed on the compound due to its value, so people are making aspirin but are not allowed to refer to it as such due to copyright. It's complicated further by the loss of the trademark in many countries for many reasons, losing that barrier completely, and both the sheer age and reproducibility of the compound. However, the main reason I wouldn't refer to a painkiller as "aspirin" is because not all painkillers contain aspirin.
"I wouldn't refer to Pepsi as "Coke", though I might refer to a supermarket-brand cola as "Coke" because it is in clear imitation of Coca-Cola. You can market anything you like as a "cola", even though the term did come from the original Coca-Cola from 1886 (from kola nut).
I would not call a vacuum cleaner a "Hoover" unless it was actually manufactured by Hoover; my Dyson is a vacuum, my Hoover is a vacuum. My Hoover is not a Dyson; my Dyson is not a Hoover. Just because it's fairly common slang doesn't make it correct or accurate.
Calling them "Taser" weapons is no different to referring to giving the Mechanicus a "Glock Lance" or giving their walkers the "Porsche" special rule and "Microsoft Windows" in place of "Doctrina Imperialis". Besides, it's not even right, as the rules don't reflect anything to do with them being stun weapons. They could have called them electro weapons, a callback to the electro-priest everyone keeps mentioning, or they could have called them electroshock weapons or something else that better carries the implication that the weapon's lethal electricity is arcing between targets or frying single ones.
drbored wrote:
So are words like 'Xerox' and 'Escalator'. Brands that became used for more than their brand.
Referring to just about everything by a brand name is really more of an American thing (e.g. Jell-O).
The worst part about it being called "Taser" isn't that it's wrong, though, it's that it's a real-world company that makes real products with that name. It just seems so unfitting next to things like "plasma caliver" and "radium jezzail". At least the Necron obsession with human physicists is based on the names Gauss and Tesla being long-standing sci-fi tropes.
Genericised trademarks are categorically not an "American" thing, they can, and do, occur everywhere. You may refer to all vacuum cleaners as "vacuums" but life has taught me you're relatively unusual, or simply being contrary to try and support your point. It is perfectly acceptable because the trademark 'Hoover' has been widely accepted as a generic term for all vacuum cleaners, and to pretend it is somehow incorrect because technically not all vacuums are Hoovers is the sort of argument you only ever seem to get on the Internet.
But then I'm sure all the staff in Wetherspoons love the fact that they don't have to tell you that the cola they serve is Pepsi every time you order one, because it isn't like they have to do that a million times every shift for all the other people.
I also challenge that you've ever referred to aspirin as acetylsalicylic acid in your life unless you're a medical student. You're quite right that not all painkillers are aspirin, but the same logic is why I don't call my iron a Hoover. Neither does your example of Latin/common classification really hold up, because it isn't unheard of for various very similar species to attract the same common name, nor is it unheard of for an identical species to attract different common names based on locality.
But what all this boils down to is that to object to a term which is perfectly descriptive of the weapon's operation on the grounds that the very thing that brought the image of that operation into the wider consciousness of the population so vividly it has become synonymous with it is somehow inappropriate is, let's be fair, pretty nitpicky.
Frozen Ocean wrote: I wish they'd used a different word than "Taser", because it's a brand name that doesn't have any meaning of its own.
You mean if someone were to tell you they'd been tasered, you'd need further explanation?
Would you require further explanation if someone said they were hit by a Peugeot or a Lamborghini?
Azreal13 wrote:Brand names frequently become genericised, this is one of them.
Or do you not take a couple of aspirin washed down with coke if the noise of the hoover aggravates your headache?
I wouldn't no, but Coke and aspirin are very bad examples (though I would still say "painkiller"). Not only because both are names for materials/substance, whereas, like "Hoover", "Taser" is not.
Aspirin is a particularly bad example because its use as a generic term is a complicated matter. Firstly, chemical compounds have a discoverer and a subsequent naming scheme; it is inherently a generic term; "aspirin" and "acetylsalicylic acid" are inseparable just as "spotted bass" is inseparable from "Micropterus punctulatus", but there is a barrier in place because of the trademark placed on the compound due to its value, so people are making aspirin but are not allowed to refer to it as such due to copyright. It's complicated further by the loss of the trademark in many countries for many reasons, losing that barrier completely, and both the sheer age and reproducibility of the compound. However, the main reason I wouldn't refer to a painkiller as "aspirin" is because not all painkillers contain aspirin.
"I wouldn't refer to Pepsi as "Coke", though I might refer to a supermarket-brand cola as "Coke" because it is in clear imitation of Coca-Cola. You can market anything you like as a "cola", even though the term did come from the original Coca-Cola from 1886 (from kola nut).
I would not call a vacuum cleaner a "Hoover" unless it was actually manufactured by Hoover; my Dyson is a vacuum, my Hoover is a vacuum. My Hoover is not a Dyson; my Dyson is not a Hoover. Just because it's fairly common slang doesn't make it correct or accurate.
Calling them "Taser" weapons is no different to referring to giving the Mechanicus a "Glock Lance" or giving their walkers the "Porsche" special rule and "Microsoft Windows" in place of "Doctrina Imperialis". Besides, it's not even right, as the rules don't reflect anything to do with them being stun weapons. They could have called them electro weapons, a callback to the electro-priest everyone keeps mentioning, or they could have called them electroshock weapons or something else that better carries the implication that the weapon's lethal electricity is arcing between targets or frying single ones.
drbored wrote:
So are words like 'Xerox' and 'Escalator'. Brands that became used for more than their brand.
Referring to just about everything by a brand name is really more of an American thing (e.g. Jell-O).
The worst part about it being called "Taser" isn't that it's wrong, though, it's that it's a real-world company that makes real products with that name. It just seems so unfitting next to things like "plasma caliver" and "radium jezzail". At least the Necron obsession with human physicists is based on the names Gauss and Tesla being long-standing sci-fi tropes.
Genericised trademarks are categorically not an "American" thing, they can, and do, occur everywhere. You may refer to all vacuum cleaners as "vacuums" but life has taught me you're relatively unusual, or simply being contrary to try and support your point. It is perfectly acceptable because the trademark 'Hoover' has been widely accepted as a generic term for all vacuum cleaners, and to pretend it is somehow incorrect because technically not all vacuums are Hoovers is the sort of argument you only ever seem to get on the Internet.
But then I'm sure all the staff in Wetherspoons love the fact that they don't have to tell you that the cola they serve is Pepsi every time you order one, because it isn't like they have to do that a million times every shift for all the other people.
I also challenge that you've ever referred to aspirin as acetylsalicylic acid in your life unless you're a medical student. You're quite right that not all painkillers are aspirin, but the same logic is why I don't call my iron a Hoover. Neither does your example of Latin/common classification really hold up, because it isn't unheard of for various very similar species to attract the same common name, nor is it unheard of for an identical species to attract different common names based on locality.
But what all this boils down to is that to object to a term which is perfectly descriptive of the weapon's operation on the grounds that the very thing that brought the image of that operation into the wider consciousness of the population so vividly it has become synonymous with it is somehow inappropriate is, let's be fair, pretty nitpicky.
Really, a lot of the things you're discussing are just regional slang or colloquialisms- the "Coke" thing is a prime example. Up by the Great Lakes region of the US, We use "Vacuums", drink "Pop", wipe our noses with "Kleenex", arm ourselves with "Stun Guns", etc. etc. It varies all over.
However, the point being made (not sure by who- too many nested quotes) about Taser(R) being a registered Trademark is a valid issue- it's exactly the same thing that GW took Chapterhouse to court over a couple years ago- the use of a Brand Name on/in a product that doesn't own it and isn't affiliated with it. Honestly, you'd think their legal department would have caught that, now surely being Copyright and Trademark experts~.
Anvildude wrote: Really, a lot of the things you're discussing are just regional slang or colloquialisms- the "Coke" thing is a prime example. Up by the Great Lakes region of the US, We use "Vacuums", drink "Pop", wipe our noses with "Kleenex", arm ourselves with "Stun Guns", etc. etc. It varies all over.
However, the point being made (not sure by who- too many nested quotes) about Taser(R) being a registered Trademark is a valid issue- it's exactly the same thing that GW took Chapterhouse to court over a couple years ago- the use of a Brand Name on/in a product that doesn't own it and isn't affiliated with it. Honestly, you'd think their legal department would have caught that, now surely being Copyright and Trademark experts~.
The other point is that it's just laziness or poor writing when creating your fantasy universe in the 410th century to go around using 21st century colloquialisms based on 21st company names.
If anywhere in 40k they used terms like "hoover", "coke", "sharpie", "kleenex", etc I would want to beat the writer over the head with a "maglite".
Anvildude wrote: Really, a lot of the things you're discussing are just regional slang or colloquialisms- the "Coke" thing is a prime example. Up by the Great Lakes region of the US, We use "Vacuums", drink "Pop", wipe our noses with "Kleenex", arm ourselves with "Stun Guns", etc. etc. It varies all over.
However, the point being made (not sure by who- too many nested quotes) about Taser(R) being a registered Trademark is a valid issue- it's exactly the same thing that GW took Chapterhouse to court over a couple years ago- the use of a Brand Name on/in a product that doesn't own it and isn't affiliated with it. Honestly, you'd think their legal department would have caught that, now surely being Copyright and Trademark experts~.
The other point is that it's just laziness or poor writing when creating your fantasy universe in the 410th century to go around using 21st century colloquialisms based on 21st company names.
If anywhere in 40k they used terms like "hoover", "coke", "sharpie", "kleenex", etc I would want to beat the writer over the head with a "maglite".
I felt the same way about the Necron's Tesla guns.
Bazillion year old killer robots named their guns after a 19th century inventor?
Even if it's just the Imperial name for them, why is the Imperium using a dated reference like that?
And, out of character, it just doesn't feel properly grimdark.
Ah well.
We'll live.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In conclusion, MOAR PRETTY PICTURES PLEASE!
I do agree that GW is really treading on dangerous ground referring to this as a taser rifle, as it is a clearly trademarked name. Given their own legal pettiness, I think they might have chosen to be a little more careful about this.
I do dispute, very strongly, that the 'taser' association is purely with the company and their product. The TASER Corporation came up with that name based on the "Thomas A. Swift Electric Rifle", from the very cool, old Tom Swift novels. There's a pre-existing literary influence, which inspired the company, who had developed a product analogous to Tom Swift's fictional one. Then that product became so synonymous with 'conducted energy weapons' (CEW) that it basically serves as a common term for CEW, even with people who have no idea of the original literary influence.
I'm willing to bet that GW's writers are totally aware of the Tom Swift association, but I'll be damned if I can figure out how the obvious risk of a lawsuit slipped by them.
I'm calling it here. Collectors should pick up a copy of this rulebook ASAP, as GW will have to either pull it off the shelf, or change the name in subsequent printings.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
On The skitarii building sheet (or whatever it is named in english), is a black and white picture of all the new Skitarii models.
Two Onager walkers along with Vanguard, Rangers, and both of this weeks unit options. They are fighting Tau Warriors.
No other new models are shown. Most likely saying that this is it.
This doesn't bode well for our theoretical HQ. That's literally all we need for it to be a complete army. Though, that would be in character for GW to do that to us. Though, if a full Ad-Mech codex DOES end up happening, then that will fix this. Hopefully.
Still, TASER are actively fighting brand dillution. They frequently send notes to newspapers and journos regarding the proper use of their brand, and even have a pdf up on their site with the guidelines to do so.
c0j1r0 wrote: via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
On The skitarii building sheet (or whatever it is named in english), is a black and white picture of all the new Skitarii models.
Two Onager walkers along with Vanguard, Rangers, and both of this weeks unit options. They are fighting Tau Warriors.
No other new models are shown. Most likely saying that this is it.
This doesn't bode well for our theoretical HQ. That's literally all we need for it to be a complete army. Though, that would be in character for GW to do that to us. Though, if a full Ad-Mech codex DOES end up happening, then that will fix this. Hopefully.
Indeed... Will be much like the Harlequin dex, then, possibly limited to allying only through formations, which would, ironically, limit how much you could do with the army unless you made it your main :\
Ah well. Still excited to see the rest, and see the full Admech Codex, whenever it drops. Really want to see the different options that Onager has!! But that's another week away...
for now, I'd be content with English rules sheets for the Sicarians!
Edit: Also, c'mon people, the models are beautiful, the rules are interesting, and you're hung up on the word 'taser' on a few of them? If GW have to fight another legal battle, let them. Not our problem.
Anvildude wrote: Really, a lot of the things you're discussing are just regional slang or colloquialisms- the "Coke" thing is a prime example. Up by the Great Lakes region of the US, We use "Vacuums", drink "Pop", wipe our noses with "Kleenex", arm ourselves with "Stun Guns", etc. etc. It varies all over.
However, the point being made (not sure by who- too many nested quotes) about Taser(R) being a registered Trademark is a valid issue- it's exactly the same thing that GW took Chapterhouse to court over a couple years ago- the use of a Brand Name on/in a product that doesn't own it and isn't affiliated with it. Honestly, you'd think their legal department would have caught that, now surely being Copyright and Trademark experts~.
The other point is that it's just laziness or poor writing when creating your fantasy universe in the 410th century to go around using 21st century colloquialisms based on 21st company names.
If anywhere in 40k they used terms like "hoover", "coke", "sharpie", "kleenex", etc I would want to beat the writer over the head with a "maglite".
I felt the same way about the Necron's Tesla guns.
Bazillion year old killer robots named their guns after a 19th century inventor?
Even if it's just the Imperial name for them, why is the Imperium using a dated reference like that?
And, out of character, it just doesn't feel properly grimdark.
Ah well.
We'll live.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In conclusion, MOAR PRETTY PICTURES PLEASE!
I think it's a bit more conceivable that a unit of measure survives all that time (though probably not, I think it's more reasonable than a company name). Gauss weapons, after all, are named for the unit of gauss, magnetic flux density, which is named after the Carl Friedrich Gauss.
Most of our units are based on 17th-19th century people.
c0j1r0 wrote: via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
On The skitarii building sheet (or whatever it is named in english), is a black and white picture of all the new Skitarii models.
Two Onager walkers along with Vanguard, Rangers, and both of this weeks unit options. They are fighting Tau Warriors.
No other new models are shown. Most likely saying that this is it.
This doesn't bode well for our theoretical HQ. That's literally all we need for it to be a complete army. Though, that would be in character for GW to do that to us. Though, if a full Ad-Mech codex DOES end up happening, then that will fix this. Hopefully.
I'm not suprised. I've always kinda figured a "Alpha prime" was just what they call an alpha whose your warlord
I'm not going to argue against personal preferences (though, Azreal13, I have only ever referred to painkiller tablets as "painkillers" or by the specific name on the box - Ibuprofen, etc - and have referred to aspirin as "acetylsalicylic acid" because I had to write an essay about it). I'm not arguing to be contrary, I was talking about my personal preferences and how I speak (you did ask what I would say, specifically).
However, to those who disagree with what I said, I feel like my other point is still a very valid concern - that "Taser", regardless of whether it's correct, is very out of theme (and doesn't even describe what they do).
I wrote:The worst part about it being called "Taser" isn't that it's wrong, though, it's that it's a real-world company that makes real products with that name. It just seems so unfitting next to things like "plasma caliver" and "radium jezzail". At least the Necron obsession with human physicists is based on the names Gauss and Tesla being long-standing sci-fi tropes.
That said, I agree with Kid_Kyoto on the Necrons, but like I said, it's less jarring because they are well-used names in sci-fi for those types of weapon. It's the same with Tau vehicles; why are they all named after species of fish that the Imperium would have no knowledge of?
A thought occurred that they could have an HQ slot in the codex for the 'Alpha Prime' that you can build out of the Ranger or Vanguard box.
Though more likely, you'll simply nominate one of your Vanguard or Ranger Primes to be your Warlord, and hope that there are some relics that can give him higher toughness and armor and such :I
drbored wrote: A thought occurred that they could have an HQ slot in the codex for the 'Alpha Prime' that you can build out of the Ranger or Vanguard box.
Though more likely, you'll simply nominate one of your Vanguard or Ranger Primes to be your Warlord, and hope that there are some relics that can give him higher toughness and armor and such :I
or run allies depending on the value of the admech warlord table.
The naming discussion seems a bit absurd... I mean, why would the people in the 41st millennium be using 20th century English in the first place? In that context, the etymology of a single word seems quite meaningless.
I always figured that since codexes are written from a imperial perspective we are given the imperial name for things unless it is obviously something that the tau word is known for.
Basically similar to nato reporting names for non nato planes etc. so an xv88 broadside is called something totally different by the tau but who cares they are irrelevant to the reader. The same would apply to weapons (can you ask a necron for his weapon names)
clemash wrote:I always figured that since codexes are written from a imperial perspective we are given the imperial name for things unless it is obviously something that the tau word is known for.
Basically similar to nato reporting names for non nato planes etc. so an xv88 broadside is called something totally different by the tau but who cares they are irrelevant to the reader. The same would apply to weapons (can you ask a necron for his weapon names)
That is the explanation, but the Imperium shouldn't know those names. Those fish don't exist anymore, and probably haven't for an incredibly long time.
Mymearan wrote:The naming discussion seems a bit absurd... I mean, why would the people in the 41st millennium be using 20th century English in the first place? In that context, the etymology of a single word seems quite meaningless.
This is why the above mention of Tau naming schemes don't bother me, because language in sci-fi always has to take significant liberties in order to be understandable. The Taser thing does, though, just because of how totally out-of-place it sounds.
for the record, this isn't the first sci-fi war game to use the term Taser with regards to such a weapon. Battletech a few years ago introduced "Mech Tasers" and yes it's EXACTLY what it sounds like.
Azreal13 wrote:Brand names frequently become genericised, this is one of them.
Blah blah blah
Honestly no, he's right, you should've stopped there. It's perfectly reasonable that in 38000 years time Taser becomes the generic term for a directed electrical charge weapon, just like how people call vacuums hoovers, etc. Plus there's the whole "the language they're speaking would be completely different to 20th century english, but because it's a game for a 20th century market it makes more sense to use 20th century english than it does to create a new language" angle. So generally stop going on about this, because it's pointless and it doesn't make you look clever.
I think that in Britain, where the average guy is very much less learned with regards to weaponry (even pepper spray is illegal for personal use), 'Taser' is just the word they used on the news to tell us that some Police have 'Tasers' now.
I would imagine the rules writers are similarly oblivious to the correct terminology to apply to a Taser made by Bacardi or Tesco or some other manufacturer. I sympathise with their plight because it must be getting difficult to name new weapons but I do agree that it does seem rather a passive and wimpy name for the grimdark future.
And then there's guys like me, who had no idea Taser was a "brand". I always thought it was the generic name for one of those machines that shock you so you just fall down spasming.
And it's not the first time I have seen a "Taser" as a shock type of weapon, I think.
In conclusion: MOAR MECHANICUS INFO. I need more pretty pictures!
Davylove21 wrote: I think that in Britain, where the average guy is very much less learned with regards to weaponry (even pepper spray is illegal for personal use), 'Taser' is just the word they used on the news to tell us that some Police have 'Tasers' now.
I would imagine the rules writers are similarly oblivious to the correct terminology to apply to a Taser made by Bacardi or Tesco or some other manufacturer. I sympathise with their plight because it must be getting difficult to name new weapons but I do agree that it does seem rather a passive and wimpy name for the grimdark future.
Tasers in 40K probably make people explode violently into a cloud of blood lol. You don't get that in this current point in time.
Azreal13 wrote:Brand names frequently become genericised, this is one of them.
Blah blah blah
Honestly no, he's right, you should've stopped there. It's perfectly reasonable that in 38000 years time Taser becomes the generic term for a directed electrical charge weapon, just like how people call vacuums hoovers, etc. Plus there's the whole "the language they're speaking would be completely different to 20th century english, but because it's a game for a 20th century market it makes more sense to use 20th century english than it does to create a new language" angle. So generally stop going on about this, because it's pointless and it doesn't make you look clever.
So giving my opinion, which is that it doesn't fit, means I'm trying to look clever? Wonderful logic. Weird how this is something people take really personally. Oh, sorry, I shouldn't have said that - it's an opinion about something, so it could only be an attempt to show off how amazingly clever, beautiful and strong I am!
If anywhere in 40k they used terms like "hoover", "coke", "sharpie", "kleenex", etc I would want to beat the writer over the head with a "maglite".
I don't think there is a Black Library book out there that does not have shrapnel flying about during the fight scenes.
That said, as long as they are human (e.g. from earth), it still makes more sense than .. say .. Necrons with Gauss/Tesla-weapons, etc...
And they don't make sense because...? Gauss/Tesla are just names that the Imperium would've given the Necron weapons. Not like someone asked a Necron what their guns were called and that's what they'd named them.
I can't belive there's like 3 pages of people complaining because they named them 'Taser' weapons. Really?
And they don't make sense because...? Gauss/Tesla are just names that the Imperium would've given the Necron weapons. Not like someone asked a Necron what their guns were called and that's what they'd named them.
It's what the omniscient narrator named them. There're no indications of an "imperial perspective-narrator". They are still called Gauss/Tesla/etc.. in stories about ... say ... Eldar vs. Necrons, with no Imperial guy about. Just like Eldar/Dark Eldar weapons still have their names in the Eldar/Dark Eldar novels, where there's no human involved. Etc...
And they don't make sense because...? Gauss/Tesla are just names that the Imperium would've given the Necron weapons. Not like someone asked a Necron what their guns were called and that's what they'd named them.
It's what the omniscient narrator named them. There're no indications of an "imperial perspective-narrator". They are still called Gauss/Tesla/etc.. in stories about ... say ... Eldar vs. Necrons, with no Imperial guy about. Just like Eldar/Dark Eldar weapons still have their names in the Eldar/Dark Eldar novels, where there's no human involved. Etc...
Whatever. It's still not like the Necrons named them Gauss or Tesla. I don't see how it doesn't make sense just because they're necron. Tau guns aren't actually called Pulse Carbines, that's just what the omniscient narrator called them. Same with Splinter Rifles. Fleshborer Hives. Shuriken Guns.
Whatever. It's still not like the Necrons named them Gauss or Tesla. I don't see how it doesn't make sense just because they're necron. Tau guns aren't actually called Pulse Carbines, that's just what the omniscient narrator called them. Same with Splinter Rifles. Fleshborer Hives. Shuriken Guns.
Well, than maybe the AdMech doesn't call them Taser-weapons in Martian binary cant either, nor would they be named that in high or low gothic, fenrisian, chogoran, nostraman, whathaveyou...
Whatever. It's still not like the Necrons named them Gauss or Tesla. I don't see how it doesn't make sense just because they're necron. Tau guns aren't actually called Pulse Carbines, that's just what the omniscient narrator called them. Same with Splinter Rifles. Fleshborer Hives. Shuriken Guns.
Well, than maybe the AdMech doesn't call them Taser-weapons in Martian binary cant either, nor would they be named that in high or low gothic, fenrisian, chogoran, nostraman, whathaveyou...
Azreal13 wrote:Brand names frequently become genericised, this is one of them.
Blah blah blah
Honestly no, he's right, you should've stopped there. It's perfectly reasonable that in 38000 years time Taser becomes the generic term for a directed electrical charge weapon, just like how people call vacuums hoovers, etc. Plus there's the whole "the language they're speaking would be completely different to 20th century english, but because it's a game for a 20th century market it makes more sense to use 20th century english than it does to create a new language" angle. So generally stop going on about this, because it's pointless and it doesn't make you look clever.
So giving my opinion, which is that it doesn't fit, means I'm trying to look clever? Wonderful logic. Weird how this is something people take really personally. Oh, sorry, I shouldn't have said that - it's an opinion about something, so it could only be an attempt to show off how amazingly clever, beautiful and strong I am!
Your opinion on something that has almost nothing to do with news and rumour discussion and everything to do with how much cleverer a wordsmith you are than geedub? Remind me which one of us is taking things personally again real quick
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can't belive there's like 3 pages of people complaining because they named them 'Taser' weapons. Really?
I know, right? Who wants to hear that. This isn't dictionary corner.
here we go
there are some new picz around us
And Yes there is even a pic with Onager Dunecrawler where you can see some weapon system... rumors say you can use Eradication Beamer, Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, Enamatus Force Field but there are even option for Twin Linked Heavy Phosphor Blaster, Neutron Laser/ Cognis Heavy Stubber and Icarus Array
the news can be found here and the hole gallery here
Mantle wrote: It looks like they come on a huge round base too, any other models on bases like that?
Erm, not in 40k I don't think. All ovals. It doesn't really need a base though, it looks like it would stand fine ala Defiler and the Necron one (Tomb Stalker? Or is that the centipede).
Wasn't the rumour that it was almost Knight sized? I'm not sold on it yet, need to see proper pics I think.
Oh goodness. I think these are my next project for sure after my Minotaurs are done.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lamech wrote: here we go
there are some new picz around us
And Yes there is even a pic with Onager Dunecrawler where you can see some weapon system... rumors say you can use Eradication Beamer, Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, Enamatus Force Field but there are even option for Twin Linked Heavy Phosphor Blaster, Neutron Laser/ Cognis Heavy Stubber and Icarus Array
the news can be found here and the hole gallery here
Thanks, I really like the look of that Dune Crawler
I'd rather have simple, evocative, instantly-descriptive names than 'Farquuua'rkk Emitters' or 'Kkkrr'appp Rifles' or somesuch apostrophied, nonsense sci-fi naming with too many K's.
Well hate to agree with people but yeah looks like we won't get a HQ , I'm not sure I've seen an army shot where there wasn't some sort of Command figure.
The most disappointing part of this release. But I guess GW had to mess it up somehow.
The vanguard skittari cry out for something to get them closer so they can use their short range carbines. Transports are needed in malestrom missions. Transports are needed to protect these really squishy T3 dudes.
You'd think they'd at least get to take Chimeras and rhinos or something. I mean they work for the guys who frick'in build them.
And no, I don't think they will get transports when the full book is released. The leaked rules don't contain mention of a transport, unlike the Harli's last time.
Goresaw wrote: I keep looking at the release and wondering...
where are the transports?
The vanguard skittari cry out for something to get them closer so they can use their short range carbines. Transports are needed in malestrom missions. Transports are needed to protect these really squishy T3 dudes.
You'd think they'd at least get to take Chimeras and rhinos or something. I mean they work for the guys who frick'in build them.
And no, I don't think they will get transports when the full book is released. The leaked rules don't contain mention of a transport, unlike the Harli's last time.
One of the walker things is rumoured to be a transport.
It'd be cool if they did an Ad Mech Upgrade kit for the Chimera
A selection of zappy guns for the main gun, the bog standard rifles for Skitarii to go where the lasguns are and various gubbinz on the pintle mount. And another zappy type thing to replace the hull mounted heavy bolter.
Atleast as a Guard player I can give them Taurox Primes (if they are Battle Brothers with Guard, but they should be, right?).
They really should get their own transports though. So much potential for cool vehicles! I would personally love to se a walker transport with the Dunestrider rule, would be awesome!
Goresaw wrote: I keep looking at the release and wondering...
where are the transports?
The vanguard skittari cry out for something to get them closer so they can use their short range carbines. Transports are needed in malestrom missions. Transports are needed to protect these really squishy T3 dudes.
You'd think they'd at least get to take Chimeras and rhinos or something. I mean they work for the guys who frick'in build them.
And no, I don't think they will get transports when the full book is released. The leaked rules don't contain mention of a transport, unlike the Harli's last time.
It might be that we're not getting transports, but the walkers are reputedly getting something called the "Enamatus Force Field".
It could be something like the Morkanaut's force field.
A selection of zappy guns for the main gun, the bog standard rifles for Skitarii to go where the lasguns are and various gubbinz on the pintle mount. And another zappy type thing to replace the hull mounted heavy bolter.
I'm no fan of this new stuff, but if I were buying it, or thinking of buying it, I would be asking: where are the big guns?
The Adeptus Mechanicus don't strike me as the kind of faction to skulk around behind enemy lines, and their background says they are the most technologically advanced group in the Imperium.
Nah, they'd roll up with the biggest tank in town and say suck on this Chaos!
People will say that this is just the first wave, which is true
BUT
if you were a business releasing something new, wouldn't you want to make the best impression by releasing something worth looking at?
GW love big kits. It seems strange why they didn't make their first release for the Martians a big kit...
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I'm no fan of this new stuff, but if I were buying it, or thinking of buying it, I would be asking: where are the big guns?
The Adeptus Mechanicus don't strike me as the kind of faction to skulk around behind enemy lines, and their background says they are the most technologically advanced group in the Imperium.
Nah, they'd roll up with the biggest tank in town and say suck on this Chaos!
People will say that this is just the first wave, which is true
BUT
if you were a business releasing something new, wouldn't you want to make the best impression by releasing something worth looking at?
GW love big kits. It seems strange why they didn't make their first release for the Martians a big kit...
Good God-Emperor above, I have to thank them for NOT doing that. I'm already fearing how much I'm gonna spend on infantry, ffs. Those Rangers and Cyborg Ninjas and Codex are already gonna be a nice hit, nevermind the Onager!
I don't really wanna know how much spidy-tank is gonna cost
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I'm no fan of this new stuff, but if I were buying it, or thinking of buying it, I would be asking: where are the big guns?
The Adeptus Mechanicus don't strike me as the kind of faction to skulk around behind enemy lines, and their background says they are the most technologically advanced group in the Imperium.
Nah, they'd roll up with the biggest tank in town and say suck on this Chaos!
People will say that this is just the first wave, which is true
BUT
if you were a business releasing something new, wouldn't you want to make the best impression by releasing something worth looking at?
GW love big kits. It seems strange why they didn't make their first release for the Martians a big kit...
I’m a little out of date on the modern fluff, but IIRC the Skitarri were always the support troops for things like titans. So while they might not get a faction specific tank, they go to war as part of a larger, full imperium force. But as a sub-faction, are predominately infantry and light support.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I'm no fan of this new stuff, but if I were buying it, or thinking of buying it, I would be asking: where are the big guns?
The Adeptus Mechanicus don't strike me as the kind of faction to skulk around behind enemy lines, and their background says they are the most technologically advanced group in the Imperium.
Nah, they'd roll up with the biggest tank in town and say suck on this Chaos!
People will say that this is just the first wave, which is true
BUT
if you were a business releasing something new, wouldn't you want to make the best impression by releasing something worth looking at?
GW love big kits. It seems strange why they didn't make their first release for the Martians a big kit...
I’m a little out of date on the modern fluff, but IIRC the Skitarri were always the support troops for things like titans. So while they might not get a faction specific tank, they go to war as part of a larger, full imperium force. But as a sub-faction, are predominately infantry and light support.
Fair point, but as a force driven by logic, wouldn't it make sense for the Martians to turn up in the scariest tank going, as it's mere presence could win a war without a shot being fired, and thus save resources. That would be logical. Well Sun Tzu thinks that approach is logical.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I'm no fan of this new stuff, but if I were buying it, or thinking of buying it, I would be asking: where are the big guns?
The Adeptus Mechanicus don't strike me as the kind of faction to skulk around behind enemy lines, and their background says they are the most technologically advanced group in the Imperium.
Nah, they'd roll up with the biggest tank in town and say suck on this Chaos!
People will say that this is just the first wave, which is true
BUT
if you were a business releasing something new, wouldn't you want to make the best impression by releasing something worth looking at?
GW love big kits. It seems strange why they didn't make their first release for the Martians a big kit...
I’m a little out of date on the modern fluff, but IIRC the Skitarri were always the support troops for things like titans. So while they might not get a faction specific tank, they go to war as part of a larger, full imperium force. But as a sub-faction, are predominately infantry and light support.
Fair point, but as a force driven by logic, wouldn't it make sense for the Martians to turn up in the scariest tank going, as it's mere presence could win a war without a shot being fired, and thus save resources. That would be logical. Well Sun Tzu thinks that approach is logical.
If that holy war engine gets scratched though, the Archmagos will blow a fuse.
Skitarii =/= Adeptus Mechanicus though. They're just a branch of them. So any big tanks and guns will come with the AdMech book, if they're coming. Also, most technologically advanced for the Imperium means nothing next to like Eldar and Necron tech. I doubt they'd be massively scared of much the Imperium brings, save Titans (even then Tau fliers are made for Titan killing iirc).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Skitarii =/= Adeptus Mechanicus though. They're just a branch of them. So any big tanks and guns will come with the AdMech book, if they're coming. Also, most technologically advanced for the Imperium means nothing next to like Eldar and Necron tech. I doubt they'd be massively scared of much the Imperium brings, save Titans (even then Tau fliers are made for Titan killing iirc).
Oh, the "of Mars" series! There's a some sweet Skitarii action in it too (well, the first 2 books, I'm still waiting for the paperback to be released) and I remember they used Chimeras for Skitarii transport so I'm hoping for some fluff-y stuff like that with this Codex.
The Mechanicus leader (I don't remember the name of that kind of Magos) specialised for combat even rode the chimeras just to be awesome . Ok, it wasn't for that, I just felt it was
Jes Goodwin must have been heavily involved with this release.
I am guessing Dave Thomas as well. His previous work include Militarum Tempestus Scions and Vostroyans and he was the lead designer on latest range of Necrons.
It's a pity that GW doesn't credit their sculptors anymore. Or anyone else, for that matter.
TheDraconicLord wrote: Oh, the "of Mars" series! There's a some sweet Skitarii action in it too (well, the first 2 books, I'm still waiting for the paperback to be released) and I remember they used Chimeras for Skitarii transport so I'm hoping for some fluff-y stuff like that with this Codex.
The Mechanicus leader (I don't remember the name of that kind of Magos) specialised for combat even rode the chimeras just to be awesome . Ok, it wasn't for that, I just felt it was
It was Rhino's they used. Their leader Magos Dahan, "I am Dahan, Secutor of the Skitarii Guilds aboard the Speranza", used an "open-topped variant of the Rhino chassis with a quad-mounted battery of heavy bolters fitted to its glacis. Known as an Iron Fist, it had been developed from a scrap of STC data uncovered on forge world Porphetus prior to its loss to the bio-horrors of the Great Devourer. It had yet to achieve full Mechanicus ratification, but Dahan liked its blunt profile and the single-mindedness of its purpose enough to employ it regardless of its unofficial status".
TheDraconicLord wrote: Oh, the "of Mars" series! There's a some sweet Skitarii action in it too (well, the first 2 books, I'm still waiting for the paperback to be released) and I remember they used Chimeras for Skitarii transport so I'm hoping for some fluff-y stuff like that with this Codex.
The Mechanicus leader (I don't remember the name of that kind of Magos) specialised for combat even rode the chimeras just to be awesome . Ok, it wasn't for that, I just felt it was
That was Secutor Dahan, and he actually rode in an open-topped Rhino with 4 heavy Bolters strapped on the top, literally just to get close enough to go General Grievous on them with what is essentially the Taserstaff described here. He was a goddamn badass.
Actually, like all the Magi in that book were pretty awesome. Even Kotov had an integrated AUTOCANNON in his arm, and the ability to overclock to the point that he could accurately aim individual shells while emptying his ammo supply in a few seconds. I wanna field HIM as an HQ!
I know we don't have full rules yet, but so far I'm not impressed. The army doesn't have a 'feel' yet. Like the cron codex was all about super tough phalanxes of robots marching up the field. Harliquins are super sneaky and reliant on crazy powers and abilities.
I'm not getting any vibe here. You'd think this book would be about insane technology and wild effects. Almost like a space skaven army. Instead all I see is very humdrum.
Hopefully the doctrine imperiallis rule gives them much needed flavor. Otherwise all I see are slightly tougher IG vet squads
ImAGeek wrote: Skitarii =/= Adeptus Mechanicus though. They're just a branch of them. So any big tanks and guns will come with the AdMech book, if they're coming. Also, most technologically advanced for the Imperium means nothing next to like Eldar and Necron tech. I doubt they'd be massively scared of much the Imperium brings, save Titans (even then Tau fliers are made for Titan killing iirc).
True necron and eldar tech are far ahead of anything humanity every got up to.
Human archotech is pretty advanced though, certainly way ahead of tau. So while run of the mill IG, SM, and Admech stuff probably wouldn't scare much of anyone unless it was massive in size, they do have a few things that can surprise.
ImAGeek wrote: Skitarii =/= Adeptus Mechanicus though. They're just a branch of them. So any big tanks and guns will come with the AdMech book, if they're coming. Also, most technologically advanced for the Imperium means nothing next to like Eldar and Necron tech. I doubt they'd be massively scared of much the Imperium brings, save Titans (even then Tau fliers are made for Titan killing iirc).
True necron and eldar tech are far ahead of anything humanity every got up to.
Human archotech is pretty advanced though, certainly way ahead of tau. So while run of the mill IG, SM, and Admech stuff probably wouldn't scare much of anyone unless it was massive in size, they do have a few things that can surprise.
I didn't neccesarily mean Tau were more advanced, just that they have ways to deal with even Titans. I mean, AdMech are fairly well advanced, I just don't think them having one big tank would win any battles the way Do_I_Not_Like_That was suggesting. And even if it would, isn't that what Titans are for?
aka_mythos wrote: All the shock type weaponry certainly gives me hopes for an electropriest [u]
Oooooo yeah. Maybe with the main AdMech book. They definitely have the potential for some great minis.
Do people think that the next codex for am is close or will we wait till later this year / next year?
I think people are comparing this release to the Imperial Guard release, where the Storm trooper mini-dex was released first followed by the full Imperial Guard codex. Honestly? We don't know yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hell, I should add that the whole two book thing isn't confirmed either. This might be all we're getting.
aka_mythos wrote: All the shock type weaponry certainly gives me hopes for an electropriest [u]
Oooooo yeah. Maybe with the main AdMech book. They definitely have the potential for some great minis.
Do people think that the next codex for am is close or will we wait till later this year / next year?
I think people are comparing this release to the Imperial Guard release, where the Storm trooper mini-dex was released first followed by the full Imperial Guard codex. Honestly? We don't know yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hell, I should add that the whole two book thing isn't confirmed either. This might be all we're getting.
Given the track record, something being posted on Lords of Wargaming is nearly all but confirmed. Not to mention that the Codex: Skitarii models are under the Adeptus Mechanicus section of the webstore, which is pretty telling.
aka_mythos wrote: All the shock type weaponry certainly gives me hopes for an electropriest [u]
Oooooo yeah. Maybe with the main AdMech book. They definitely have the potential for some great minis.
Do people think that the next codex for am is close or will we wait till later this year / next year?
I think people are comparing this release to the Imperial Guard release, where the Storm trooper mini-dex was released first followed by the full Imperial Guard codex. Honestly? We don't know yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hell, I should add that the whole two book thing isn't confirmed either. This might be all we're getting.
Given the track record, something being posted on Lords of Wargaming is nearly all but confirmed. Not to mention that the Codex: Skitarii models are under the Adeptus Mechanicus section of the webstore, which is pretty telling.
while i have some faith in LoW gaming Sometimes i feel these leak people are just proxies
anyway wouldn't a release like this require like 6 weeks ( and according to what I hear fantasy 9th is may)
I think a box game ie 9th would quickly be followed by books?, so needing all of may?, and if we have the final release for AM / skitari on the 18th?
as i understand that leaves the 26th for a filler release? ala deamonkin?
Am I the only dyed-in-the-wool Slave to Darkness who has decided to get to that imagined Dark Mechanicum project sooner rather than later in light of this release?
Do we have any conjecture/info on the projected price of the walker? I have a sinking feeling that it's going to be obscene, like the insane price for the cool chicken walker...
catharsix wrote: Am I the only dyed-in-the-wool Slave to Darkness who has decided to get to that imagined Dark Mechanicum project sooner rather than later in light of this release?
Do we have any conjecture/info on the projected price of the walker? I have a sinking feeling that it's going to be obscene, like the insane price for the cool chicken walker...
aka_mythos wrote: All the shock type weaponry certainly gives me hopes for an electropriest [u]
Oooooo yeah. Maybe with the main AdMech book. They definitely have the potential for some great minis.
Do people think that the next codex for am is close or will we wait till later this year / next year?
I think people are comparing this release to the Imperial Guard release, where the Storm trooper mini-dex was released first followed by the full Imperial Guard codex. Honestly? We don't know yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hell, I should add that the whole two book thing isn't confirmed either. This might be all we're getting.
Given the track record, something being posted on Lords of Wargaming is nearly all but confirmed. Not to mention that the Codex: Skitarii models are under the Adeptus Mechanicus section of the webstore, which is pretty telling.
while i have some faith in LoW gaming Sometimes i feel these leak people are just proxies
anyway wouldn't a release like this require like 6 weeks ( and according to what I hear fantasy 9th is may)
I think a box game ie 9th would quickly be followed by books?, so needing all of may?, and if we have the final release for AM / skitari on the 18th?
as i understand that leaves the 26th for a filler release? ala deamonkin?
The two books won't be back to back, the second will come later. So it wouldn't require 6 weeks in one chunk.
aka_mythos wrote: All the shock type weaponry certainly gives me hopes for an electropriest [u]
Oooooo yeah. Maybe with the main AdMech book. They definitely have the potential for some great minis.
Do people think that the next codex for am is close or will we wait till later this year / next year?
I think people are comparing this release to the Imperial Guard release, where the Storm trooper mini-dex was released first followed by the full Imperial Guard codex. Honestly? We don't know yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hell, I should add that the whole two book thing isn't confirmed either. This might be all we're getting.
Given the track record, something being posted on Lords of Wargaming is nearly all but confirmed. Not to mention that the Codex: Skitarii models are under the Adeptus Mechanicus section of the webstore, which is pretty telling.
while i have some faith in LoW gaming Sometimes i feel these leak people are just proxies
anyway wouldn't a release like this require like 6 weeks ( and according to what I hear fantasy 9th is may)
I think a box game ie 9th would quickly be followed by books?, so needing all of may?, and if we have the final release for AM / skitari on the 18th?
as i understand that leaves the 26th for a filler release? ala deamonkin?
The two books won't be back to back, the second will come later. So it wouldn't require 6 weeks in one chunk.
Davylove21 wrote: I think that in Britain, where the average guy is very much less learned with regards to weaponry (even pepper spray is illegal for personal use), 'Taser' is just the word they used on the news to tell us that some Police have 'Tasers' now.
I would imagine the rules writers are similarly oblivious to the correct terminology to apply to a Taser made by Bacardi or Tesco or some other manufacturer. I sympathise with their plight because it must be getting difficult to name new weapons but I do agree that it does seem rather a passive and wimpy name for the grimdark future.
Tasers in 40K probably make people explode violently into a cloud of blood lol. You don't get that in this current point in time.
I guess you have not seen the overclocked Taser videos.
aka_mythos wrote: All the shock type weaponry certainly gives me hopes for an electropriest [u]
Oooooo yeah. Maybe with the main AdMech book. They definitely have the potential for some great minis.
Do people think that the next codex for am is close or will we wait till later this year / next year?
I think people are comparing this release to the Imperial Guard release, where the Storm trooper mini-dex was released first followed by the full Imperial Guard codex. Honestly? We don't know yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hell, I should add that the whole two book thing isn't confirmed either. This might be all we're getting.
Given the track record, something being posted on Lords of Wargaming is nearly all but confirmed. Not to mention that the Codex: Skitarii models are under the Adeptus Mechanicus section of the webstore, which is pretty telling.
while i have some faith in LoW gaming Sometimes i feel these leak people are just proxies
anyway wouldn't a release like this require like 6 weeks ( and according to what I hear fantasy 9th is may)
I think a box game ie 9th would quickly be followed by books?, so needing all of may?, and if we have the final release for AM / skitari on the 18th?
as i understand that leaves the 26th for a filler release? ala deamonkin?
The two books won't be back to back, the second will come later. So it wouldn't require 6 weeks in one chunk.
Reputable rumour sources state that, as far as 40k releases go, Skitarii and AdMech should indeed be back-to-back... but there could still be a Fantasy release slipped in-between there.
Dramagod2 wrote: Is it just me or does anyone else think that the Onager doesn't really look like its built to carry troops? I really hope these guys have a transport.
Getting a vehicle that isnt a transport would really be a kick in the pants.
If that rumour that they give - 1 BS , WS etc.. is true then if you are with in 6inches and charge a unit, wouldn't that mean they have BS 0 as Snap Shots are resolved at BS 1.
So they'd be immune if their with in the 6" to charge of Overwatch.
Hollismason wrote: If that rumour that they give - 1 BS , WS etc.. is true then if you are with in 6inches and charge a unit, wouldn't that mean they have BS 0 as Snap Shots are resolved at BS 1.
So they'd be immune if their with in the 6" to charge of Overwatch.
No stat can ever be reduced below 1 (2 for Leadership) unless specifically stated otherwise.
Hollismason wrote: If that rumour that they give - 1 BS , WS etc.. is true then if you are with in 6inches and charge a unit, wouldn't that mean they have BS 0 as Snap Shots are resolved at BS 1.
So they'd be immune if their with in the 6" to charge of Overwatch.
No stat can ever be reduced below 1 (2 for Leadership) unless specifically stated otherwise.
That, and modifiers only apply to snap shots if they specifically state that they do.
Something that modifies the model's BS will have no effect on a rule that requires them to resolve a shot at a specific BS.
Hollismason wrote: If that rumour that they give - 1 BS , WS etc.. is true then if you are with in 6inches and charge a unit, wouldn't that mean they have BS 0 as Snap Shots are resolved at BS 1.
So they'd be immune if their with in the 6" to charge of Overwatch.
It's not a rumor, it's actually in the photograph of the unit stats for the Sicarian Infiltrators.
Apparently the Sicarian formation extends the range from 6" to 12" as well.
aka_mythos wrote: All the shock type weaponry certainly gives me hopes for an electropriest [u]
Oooooo yeah. Maybe with the main AdMech book. They definitely have the potential for some great minis.
Do people think that the next codex for am is close or will we wait till later this year / next year?
I think people are comparing this release to the Imperial Guard release, where the Storm trooper mini-dex was released first followed by the full Imperial Guard codex. Honestly? We don't know yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hell, I should add that the whole two book thing isn't confirmed either. This might be all we're getting.
Given the track record, something being posted on Lords of Wargaming is nearly all but confirmed. Not to mention that the Codex: Skitarii models are under the Adeptus Mechanicus section of the webstore, which is pretty telling.
while i have some faith in LoW gaming Sometimes i feel these leak people are just proxies
anyway wouldn't a release like this require like 6 weeks ( and according to what I hear fantasy 9th is may)
I think a box game ie 9th would quickly be followed by books?, so needing all of may?, and if we have the final release for AM / skitari on the 18th?
as i understand that leaves the 26th for a filler release? ala deamonkin?
The two books won't be back to back, the second will come later. So it wouldn't require 6 weeks in one chunk.
Reputable rumour sources state that, as far as 40k releases go, Skitarii and AdMech should indeed be back-to-back... but there could still be a Fantasy release slipped in-between there.
Fantasy release! The fantasy world got blown up! What are they going to bring out? Space Debris?
aka_mythos wrote: All the shock type weaponry certainly gives me hopes for an electropriest [u]
Oooooo yeah. Maybe with the main AdMech book. They definitely have the potential for some great minis.
Do people think that the next codex for am is close or will we wait till later this year / next year?
I think people are comparing this release to the Imperial Guard release, where the Storm trooper mini-dex was released first followed by the full Imperial Guard codex. Honestly? We don't know yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hell, I should add that the whole two book thing isn't confirmed either. This might be all we're getting.
Given the track record, something being posted on Lords of Wargaming is nearly all but confirmed. Not to mention that the Codex: Skitarii models are under the Adeptus Mechanicus section of the webstore, which is pretty telling.
while i have some faith in LoW gaming Sometimes i feel these leak people are just proxies
anyway wouldn't a release like this require like 6 weeks ( and according to what I hear fantasy 9th is may)
I think a box game ie 9th would quickly be followed by books?, so needing all of may?, and if we have the final release for AM / skitari on the 18th?
as i understand that leaves the 26th for a filler release? ala deamonkin?
The two books won't be back to back, the second will come later. So it wouldn't require 6 weeks in one chunk.
Reputable rumour sources state that, as far as 40k releases go, Skitarii and AdMech should indeed be back-to-back... but there could still be a Fantasy release slipped in-between there.
Fantasy release! The fantasy world got blown up! What are they going to bring out? Space Debris?
The world became bubbles, and thus 5 armies made from the condensed lists of others.
If there is a break between AdMech releases (not much hinting at that atm, identical release as Tempestus -> Astra Militarum last year) it will be the pointy-ears new Codex book and Jetbikes
If there is a break between AdMech releases (not much hinting at that atm, identical release as Tempestus -> Astra Militarum last year) it will be the pointy-ears new Codex book and Jetbikes
You know... I am beginning to see the "whole picture" here, and I am thinking that Skitarii are just over-flowing with long ranged weapons, and "Relentless" because they really are meant to foot-slot.
What if the Onagar's "Force Field" really is some flavor of "Kustom Force Field" extending a 3++ to everything within 12"?
It would KIND of be fluffy (people protect machines, and NOT vice-versa), and would explain what other rules were going for. Likewise it explains why all that insane and cheap Haywire, isn't OP.
I mean... i'm gonna run these guys in Allied Pods, or getting Gated anyway, but I could see this explaining rules like Duststrider, Relentless, etc...
catharsix wrote: Am I the only dyed-in-the-wool Slave to Darkness who has decided to get to that imagined Dark Mechanicum project sooner rather than later in light of this release?
Do we have any conjecture/info on the projected price of the walker? I have a sinking feeling that it's going to be obscene, like the insane price for the cool chicken walker...
-C6
Legio Diabolus has begun to march! I was originally going to make it part of a Radical Inquisition Retinue, but this is way better!
Jes Goodwin must have been heavily involved with this release.
I am guessing Dave Thomas as well. His previous work include Militarum Tempestus Scions and Vostroyans and he was the lead designer on latest range of Necrons.
It's a pity that GW doesn't credit their sculptors anymore. Or anyone else, for that matter.
I don't know about resent new releases like Scions/Knights/ Harlequins, but when Wracks and Voidraven Bomber came out for DE they credited Jes Goodwin in White Dwarf.
The Bomber was his incomplete master-piece from the original Re-design of DE, but Wracks in plastic were a whole new kit fitting with the dual kit nature of modern releases. So he was Profiled and Credited with that work.
That was only last year.
As for all other recent release's I don't know if designers are credited, but Jes's work still get's highlighted.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Fantasy release! The fantasy world got blown up! What are they going to bring out? Space Debris?
Well the Fantasy world has been hinted at being a planet in the 40K universe. Perhaps an Mechanicus Explorator fleet shows up to survey what caused the explosion? That way the AM release leads right into the new fantasy release of whatever survived
DefiantLambdas wrote: Wracks in plastic were a whole new kit fitting with the dual kit nature of modern releases. So he was Profiled and Credited with that work.
GW sees the competition of Warmachine + Hordes using two different but similar rulesets, decides to revamp WHFB to use slightly different 40k rules and be able to be run together.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: You know... I am beginning to see the "whole picture" here, and I am thinking that Skitarii are just over-flowing with long ranged weapons, and "Relentless" because they really are meant to foot-slot.
What if the Onagar's "Force Field" really is some flavor of "Kustom Force Field" extending a 3++ to everything within 12"?
It would KIND of be fluffy (people protect machines, and NOT vice-versa), and would explain what other rules were going for. Likewise it explains why all that insane and cheap Haywire, isn't OP.
It really does make a lot of sense, doesn't it?
It would also explain the prevalence of FNP throughout the army to weather some armies which can have lots of low S, high volume shooting. And why the army is a 4+ to start with.
alleus wrote: Atleast as a Guard player I can give them Taurox Primes (if they are Battle Brothers with Guard, but they should be, right?).
They really should get their own transports though. So much potential for cool vehicles! I would personally love to se a walker transport with the Dunestrider rule, would be awesome!
could you really do that ? the taurox is not listed in the FA section, only in dedicated transport...
ok thanks, are they official?
i wonder when they will release a codex, they will probably need some more unit but they did make a codex for ik and they only really have one unit type
DefiantLambdas wrote: Wracks in plastic were a whole new kit fitting with the dual kit nature of modern releases. So he was Profiled and Credited with that work.
But the Wracks weren't a dual kit?
Well I was counting the "Wrack Pilots" for 2/3 other vehicles as being somewhat Dual Kit.
But more akin to the "crew" on Raiders and the visible Wyches available for the Venom.
Those rules are the official rules from White Dwarf. They are probably still posted somewhere here in this thread somewhere - you guys are behind the times. We've seen all the rules now for the Rangers/Vanguard and the two Walkers Ironstrider/Dragoon and all the weapon rules.
rollawaythestone wrote: Those rules are the official rules from White Dwarf. They are probably still posted somewhere here in this thread somewhere - you guys are behind the times. We've seen all the rules now for the Rangers/Vanguard and the two Walkers Ironstrider/Dragoon and the weapons rules for the units published in WD to date
fixed that for you. it's possiable we've not seen ALL the weapons rules.
rollawaythestone wrote: Those rules are the official rules from White Dwarf. They are probably still posted somewhere here in this thread somewhere - you guys are behind the times. We've seen all the rules now for the Rangers/Vanguard and the two Walkers Ironstrider/Dragoon and the weapons rules for the units published in WD to date
fixed that for you. it's possiable we've not seen ALL the weapons rules.
Yeah we don't actually know what the two dunecrawlers do yet, only some of their weapon names.
rollawaythestone wrote: Those rules are the official rules from White Dwarf. They are probably still posted somewhere here in this thread somewhere - you guys are behind the times. We've seen all the rules now for the Rangers/Vanguard and the two Walkers Ironstrider/Dragoon and the weapons rules for the units published in WD to date
fixed that for you. it's possiable we've not seen ALL the weapons rules.
Yeah we don't actually know what the two dunecrawlers do yet, only some of their weapon names.
and we've not seen stats for their weapons eaither. I imagine the name Icarus Array means we'll be able to gear it out for AA
rollawaythestone wrote: Those rules are the official rules from White Dwarf. They are probably still posted somewhere here in this thread somewhere - you guys are behind the times. We've seen all the rules now for the Rangers/Vanguard and the two Walkers Ironstrider/Dragoon and the weapons rules for the units published in WD to date
fixed that for you. it's possiable we've not seen ALL the weapons rules.
Yeah we don't actually know what the two dunecrawlers do yet, only some of their weapon names.
Do we actually know there are two dunecrawlers? I've seen nothing to suggest it's a dual kit beyond assumptions from people that think every single kit GW releases these days MUST be a dual kit.
rollawaythestone wrote: Those rules are the official rules from White Dwarf. They are probably still posted somewhere here in this thread somewhere - you guys are behind the times. We've seen all the rules now for the Rangers/Vanguard and the two Walkers Ironstrider/Dragoon and the weapons rules for the units published in WD to date
fixed that for you. it's possiable we've not seen ALL the weapons rules.
Yeah we don't actually know what the two dunecrawlers do yet, only some of their weapon names.
Do we actually know there are two dunecrawlers? I've seen nothing to suggest it's a dual kit beyond assumptions from people that think every single kit GW releases these days MUST be a dual kit.
To be fair...
1. Its a hell of a precedent. All of their kits really have been dual-kits for a LONG time now.
2. The same rumors that all by nailed this entire release months and months ago, correctly called a Spider-Tank, and said it would make two builds... a Heavy Support, and a transport. If essentially everything else was true from that batch of rumors, it would suggest this is too.
rollawaythestone wrote: Those rules are the official rules from White Dwarf. They are probably still posted somewhere here in this thread somewhere - you guys are behind the times. We've seen all the rules now for the Rangers/Vanguard and the two Walkers Ironstrider/Dragoon and the weapons rules for the units published in WD to date
fixed that for you. it's possiable we've not seen ALL the weapons rules.
Yeah we don't actually know what the two dunecrawlers do yet, only some of their weapon names.
Do we actually know there are two dunecrawlers? I've seen nothing to suggest it's a dual kit beyond assumptions from people that think every single kit GW releases these days MUST be a dual kit.
To be fair...
1. Its a hell of a precedent. All of their kits really have been dual-kits for a LONG time now.
2. The same rumors that all by nailed this entire release months and months ago, correctly called a Spider-Tank, and said it would make two builds... a Heavy Support, and a transport. If essentially everything else was true from that batch of rumors, it would suggest this is too.
I really hope this is the case, but I've kept up on these rumours and don't remember reading that anywhere directly, only as hearsay from other people who said they saw it somewhere. Anyone have a source on the Dunecrawler being a dual-kit?
The Hunter/Stalker is a 'dual-kit' but were really only talking about a weapons change.
The pic above shows that we will have at least two distinct weapon options, which has certainly been enough to give us two seperate codex entries in the past.
plastictrees wrote: The Hunter/Stalker is a 'dual-kit' but were really only talking about a weapons change.
The pic above shows that we will have at least two distinct weapon options, which has certainly been enough to give us two seperate codex entries in the past.
But the rumour text I've seen is this one:
Here is a look at your Onager Dunecrawler.
Comes with an Eradication Beamer, Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, Enamatus Force Field, and searchlight. One special rule called Doctrina Imperatives.
Its a crawler, and therefore is never slowed by difficult terrain and auto passes dangerous terrain tests. It can't run.
Gun options-
Replace the Eradication Beamer with
-Twin linked heavy phosphor blaster
-Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber
-Icarus Array
So it's just one entry with four gun options.
If it ALSO has a dual-build to make a transport on top of that, I'll be elated, but I haven't seen a shred of direct mention of this from any of the sources that have been correct about the other things so far.
Well, as I said earlier... a LOT of rules are pointing toward Skitarii intentionally being an army of footsloggers. I just noticed, an additional one in the Broad Spectrum Data-Tether which this and the light-Walkers feature, which again buff anyone's LD +1 for anyone under the effect of a Doctrina.
Like the, presumably "Force Field" I think the implication may indeed be they are expected to hoof it.
There is also the fact that several of them get the same amount of speed (if they run) asy other unit would if they just hopped out of a transport. +3 inches to movement, +3 inches to run or assault= move +run/assault+6 inches
plastictrees wrote: The Hunter/Stalker is a 'dual-kit' but were really only talking about a weapons change.
The pic above shows that we will have at least two distinct weapon options, which has certainly been enough to give us two seperate codex entries in the past.
But the rumour text I've seen is this one:
Here is a look at your Onager Dunecrawler.
Comes with an Eradication Beamer, Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, Enamatus Force Field, and searchlight. One special rule called Doctrina Imperatives.
Its a crawler, and therefore is never slowed by difficult terrain and auto passes dangerous terrain tests. It can't run.
Gun options-
Replace the Eradication Beamer with
-Twin linked heavy phosphor blaster
-Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber
-Icarus Array
So it's just one entry with four gun options.
If it ALSO has a dual-build to make a transport on top of that, I'll be elated, but I haven't seen a shred of direct mention of this from any of the sources that have been correct about the other things so far.
Sure. My point was that even if it is a 'dual kit' that doesn't mean that we are getting a transport version, or anything more than some different gun load outs.
plastictrees wrote: The Hunter/Stalker is a 'dual-kit' but were really only talking about a weapons change.
The pic above shows that we will have at least two distinct weapon options, which has certainly been enough to give us two seperate codex entries in the past.
But the rumour text I've seen is this one:
Here is a look at your Onager Dunecrawler.
Comes with an Eradication Beamer, Broad Spectrum Data-Tether, Enamatus Force Field, and searchlight. One special rule called Doctrina Imperatives.
Its a crawler, and therefore is never slowed by difficult terrain and auto passes dangerous terrain tests. It can't run.
Gun options-
Replace the Eradication Beamer with
-Twin linked heavy phosphor blaster
-Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber
-Icarus Array
So it's just one entry with four gun options.
If it ALSO has a dual-build to make a transport on top of that, I'll be elated, but I haven't seen a shred of direct mention of this from any of the sources that have been correct about the other things so far.
Sure. My point was that even if it is a 'dual kit' that doesn't mean that we are getting a transport version, or anything more than some different gun load outs.
Yeah, I do remember one set of rumors saying they would get a transport, but I can't remember if that was in reference to a different kit that could be coming with the full Admech release, or if it's the Onager...
I do know the Onager is supposed to have multiple weapon options, so we'll see how those pan out.
With no flier kit, they'll need some dedicated AA, though the Balistarius can do that fairly well.
Super Newb wrote: This is probably a stupid question but do we know what the Doctrine does?
(It's not in the first post that has most of the leaked pics and I've only skimmed through about 20 of the 90 pages of this thread!)
Don't know yet, but apparently they give buffs/weaknesses across your army.
Looking at the doctrina we've seen, Doctrina Imperatives might make this army genuinely interesting and possibly pretty difficult to play. Use that +3 BS -2 WS one? Your rangers are going to be deadly but your sicarians will be near useless. This list will probably require some really careful unit positioning in order for it to meet it's potential.
Super Newb wrote: This is probably a stupid question but do we know what the Doctrine does?
(It's not in the first post that has most of the leaked pics and I've only skimmed through about 20 of the 90 pages of this thread!)
The two we've seen so far give your entire army +3 BS and -2 WS til your next turn, or same thing reversed.
There will supposedly be multiple disciplines of Imperatives. Not sure if the Skitarii have access to more than one or if we'll only see the rest of them in the full AdMech codex.
Super Newb wrote: This is probably a stupid question but do we know what the Doctrine does?
(It's not in the first post that has most of the leaked pics and I've only skimmed through about 20 of the 90 pages of this thread!)
The two we've seen so far give your entire army +3 BS and -2 WS til your next turn, or same thing reversed.
There will supposedly be multiple disciplines of Imperatives. Not sure if the Skitarii have access to more than one or if we'll only see the rest of them in the full AdMech codex.
I hope these aren't randomly selected like psychic powers. It would be nice to have access to all of one discipline. Even if it means something like an imperative can only be used once per game...
I suppose there are not only shooting buffs, but melee buffs, armor buffs etc.
) Invul Save of 5
But the sheer speed of the infantry is impressive.
I really hope they are viable as I would love to have these guys charging forward while the rangers sit back and shoot. 
This release has officially become worthy of investment to me at this point.
Slave to Darkness 
