Marines are fundamentally incompatible with the way the 8th edition works at the moment, a strong army should consist of 3 key elements :
- Cheap chaff that exists for the sole purpose of board control and deep strike screening
- Pure damage dealers who are extremely resilient to shooting and protected from deep strike via chaff
- Guaranteed burst damage in the form of extremely reliable deep strike

Marines fit none of the above roles because they are meant to be generalists and that's their downfall imo, a point decrease of always welcomed but it will not fix the fundamental problem that marines will always be paying extra for stats that they don't care about.

Radikus wrote:
Are we expecting any changes in CA? The knight meta has been pretty brutal for mono DG (even allied DG). I suspect knights will get nerfed a bit which will bring us back up. Best I am hoping for is a decrease in maybe in plague marines? Wishful thinking.

I'm honestly not expecting DG to get much, if any, attention in CA 2018. There's rumors flying around that the early codexes are getting some improvements, but what that means no one can be sure.

If anything, we will probably see a points increase on some units - Plagueburst Crawler comes to mind as a perfect candidate for an increase.

Finally got round to buying a plagueburst crawler and I'm really torn... plaguespitters or entropy cannon.

The way I see it, the former you use to just push forward with. The latter, they're designed to just sit at the back and thunk stuff over the board.

What are people's thoughts? Much appreciated in advance.

Magnetize them, there are few weapons in the game that are easier to magnetize than PBC sponsons.

lare2 wrote:
Finally got round to buying a plagueburst crawler and I'm really torn... plaguespitters or entropy cannon.

The way I see it, the former you use to just push forward with. The latter, they're designed to just sit at the back and thunk stuff over the board.

What are people's thoughts? Much appreciated in advance.

Do a custom mod for it. Then the weapon is whatever you want it to be. As long as you aren't taking multiple PBC with the same mod and calling them different weapons, then no one can balk at your list.

I think DG is in a good place, other armies should be at our level, we shouldn't be above other armies. There are a lot of things I'd love to see, like Lord of contagion with flail, chaos lords with DR, and terminator blight launchers to be a profile between the plague marine one and the bloat drone one.

I don't think we will get anything big though. Maaaybe some changes to FW units to make them more or less useful.

I think Lords of Contagion need a tweak one way (sizeable drop in points) or the other. LoC is completely overshadowed by the Demon Prince, which is less survivable overall, but flat out better in every other way.

Giving LoC the "Lord of Nurgle" buff to allow units reroll 1's to hit would go a long way in increasing his viability. At his current cost, that buff alone would make me consider taking him.

And yes, Chaos Lord/Sorceror needs +1T and DR

I quite like the Terminator suggestion for Blight Launcher, increase the points by 5 and make it Assault 4. While their at it, Reaper Autocannon needs to be 2 damage.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
Giving LoC the "Lord of Nurgle" buff to allow units reroll 1's to hit would go a long way in increasing his viability. At his current cost, that buff alone would make me consider taking him.

And yes, Chaos Lord/Sorceror needs +1T and DR

I quite like the Terminator suggestion for Blight Launcher, increase the points by 5 and make it Assault 4. While their at it, Reaper Autocannon needs to be 2 damage.

Was going to post similar so I'll just say same.

 buddha wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:
Giving LoC the "Lord of Nurgle" buff to allow units reroll 1's to hit would go a long way in increasing his viability. At his current cost, that buff alone would make me consider taking him.

And yes, Chaos Lord/Sorceror needs +1T and DR

I quite like the Terminator suggestion for Blight Launcher, increase the points by 5 and make it Assault 4. While their at it, Reaper Autocannon needs to be 2 damage.

Was going to post similar so I'll just say same.

Agree. I have been running Typhus in my past three games to test what I can do with him and the LoC aura is basically worth 0 points. It only triggers when your opponent has not fallen back from combat or not wiped out the unit he was charging for some reason, and even then only on a 4+.
Typhus is decent because he is a psyker, has some shooting and can cleave a predator straight in half. LoC can do none of that.
With no shooting options, 4" movement and halved advance rolls, I don't see why I would ever pick a LoC over a chaos lord in terminator armor.

Only reason is that the LoC is way more survivable against everything and works as a solo deep striker to charge an important back field unit and to take and hold an important objective in your opponent's deployment zone. He still isn't really worth it as 5 blight lords, while costing more, are just better at that in every way.
Again I had great success with mine but I will admit there are better choices.

I would really like it if DG Terminators remembered how to punch stuff... :(

 Brymm wrote:
Only reason is that the LoC is way more survivable against everything and works as a solo deep striker to charge an important back field unit and to take and hold an important objective in your opponent's deployment zone. He still isn't really worth it as 5 blight lords, while costing more, are just better at that in every way.
Again I had great success with mine but I will admit there are better choices.

All of those are relevant, but the biggest let down is how (mostly) pointless his aura is. Very situational and even then only works half the time. He needs a bit of work to be worth taking IMO, which is a shame because it's an awesome model.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

zerosignal wrote:
I would really like it if DG Terminators remembered how to punch stuff... :(

I use mine as infantry bullies which they do very well. They struggle against heavy armour but you've got other tools in the codex to deal with them.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
Only reason is that the LoC is way more survivable against everything and works as a solo deep striker to charge an important back field unit and to take and hold an important objective in your opponent's deployment zone. He still isn't really worth it as 5 blight lords, while costing more, are just better at that in every way.
Again I had great success with mine but I will admit there are better choices.

All of those are relevant, but the biggest let down is how (mostly) pointless his aura is. Very situational and even then only works half the time. He needs a bit of work to be worth taking IMO, which is a shame because it's an awesome model.

You mean a pair of awesome models. Remember there are two, as one came in the box set, and another was Lord Felthius with his Blightlord Terminator cohorts. Such a waste at present...

Best way for DG and Knights to deal with smash captains? Close screen on the big targets and plaguespitter/autocannon to death once he's been held up by chaff? Plus some smite Plaguecaster aura mortal wounds?

Bait him into charging a PBC by "accidentally" leaving it exposed. If the PBC dies blow it up for a CP and then gun him down. You'll still be even on points afterwards, and he will be down a bunch of CP and an important asset. If you get lucky and the PBC survives, even better.

I was thinking I'd screen the front of the main targets with my 3 PBCs and their rear with cultists so the only moderate value target he can charge is the autohit PBCs (I know the smash captains aren't the warlord so no overwatch deny)

What do you guys think about running Nurgle Daemons with Death Guard? As in, running two battalion detachments, one Death Guard, one Nurgle Daemons.

The Death Guard side can have MSUs of plague marines to camp on objectives, PBCs to run up and up spit on enemies, and a daemon prince to go ham with the Suppurating Plate and talons.

The Nurgle Daemon detachment can have large mobs of plaguebearers with nurglings to fill in the battalion requirement, with a poxbringer to help the plaguebearers and a Spoilpox Scrivener to help the plaguebeaers and the PBCs. All with 10 CP to have the PBCs explode, extra relics, and rerolls.

Thoughts?

 WhatATravesty wrote:
What do you guys think about running Nurgle Daemons with Death Guard? As in, running two battalion detachments, one Death Guard, one Nurgle Daemons.

The Death Guard side can have MSUs of plague marines to camp on objectives, PBCs to run up and up spit on enemies, and a daemon prince to go ham with the Suppurating Plate and talons.

The Nurgle Daemon detachment can have large mobs of plaguebearers with nurglings to fill in the battalion requirement, with a poxbringer to help the plaguebearers and a Spoilpox Scrivener to help the plaguebeaers and the PBCs. All with 10 CP to have the PBCs explode, extra relics, and rerolls.

Thoughts?

I prefer my DG detachments to be Spearheads or Outriders with Daemons galore to soup up an Epidemius in the ND Battalion, but sure, I can see that working. Might be worth experimenting with adding a Gnarlmaw as well.

Radikus wrote:
Are we expecting any changes in CA? The knight meta has been pretty brutal for mono DG (even allied DG). I suspect knights will get nerfed a bit which will bring us back up. Best I am hoping for is a decrease in maybe in plague marines? Wishful thinking.

1) Price increase for the PBC is inevitable; probably a 10+ point bump on the Chassis
2) Add DR and +1T to the Lords and Sorcs... make them nurgle for cryin out loud
3) Points drop on PM's (1 pt?), points drop on LoC (10 pts maybe), maybe a slight drop on defilers as they are still overcosted
4) I'd like to see a couple new relics, most of ours are bleh.... Suppurating Plate is literally the only great one.
5) Change the Demon Prince of Nurgles weapons to be plague weapons (even if its just the sword and axe), same with Entropy Cannons on the PBC
6) I wouldn't be surprised is DP's get a slight points bump if they do the above
7) Myphetic Blighthauler points drop

This is mostly wishlisting, I feel like we will get a points bump on PBC and thats all

There's never been a statline change on a unit in 8th after a codex, has there? I don't think that's something that's about to start.

nfe wrote:
There's never been a statline change on a unit in 8th after a codex, has there? I don't think that's something that's about to start.

After a codex? I don't think so, but there has been changes to index units to codex.

DudleyGrim wrote:

nfe wrote:
There's never been a statline change on a unit in 8th after a codex, has there? I don't think that's something that's about to start.

After a codex? I don't think so, but there has been changes to index units to codex.

CSM Predators had their damage tier thresholds changed (for the better). Not a huge leap, and perhaps one on an issue that might have been a typo all along, but it’s set the precedent.

 WhatATravesty wrote:
What do you guys think about running Nurgle Daemons with Death Guard? As in, running two battalion detachments, one Death Guard, one Nurgle Daemons.

The Death Guard side can have MSUs of plague marines to camp on objectives, PBCs to run up and up spit on enemies, and a daemon prince to go ham with the Suppurating Plate and talons.

The Nurgle Daemon detachment can have large mobs of plaguebearers with nurglings to fill in the battalion requirement, with a poxbringer to help the plaguebearers and a Spoilpox Scrivener to help the plaguebeaers and the PBCs. All with 10 CP to have the PBCs explode, extra relics, and rerolls.

Thoughts?

The Nurgle Daemons have the better troops (both of them) so there's not really a point in running a Deathguard Battalion, especially because neither codex is super hungry for stratagems outside of rerolls.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:

 WhatATravesty wrote:
What do you guys think about running Nurgle Daemons with Death Guard? As in, running two battalion detachments, one Death Guard, one Nurgle Daemons.

The Death Guard side can have MSUs of plague marines to camp on objectives, PBCs to run up and up spit on enemies, and a daemon prince to go ham with the Suppurating Plate and talons.

The Nurgle Daemon detachment can have large mobs of plaguebearers with nurglings to fill in the battalion requirement, with a poxbringer to help the plaguebearers and a Spoilpox Scrivener to help the plaguebeaers and the PBCs. All with 10 CP to have the PBCs explode, extra relics, and rerolls.

Thoughts?

The Nurgle Daemons have the better troops (both of them) so there's not really a point in running a Deathguard Battalion, especially because neither codex is super hungry for stratagems outside of rerolls.

Yeah, this is what I am more or less running (with knights!), its just too bad plague marines themselves aren't that great to take. I love the models, but for the points they are just too pricey.

Just to chime in on Plague Marines: they aren't bad. Not super efficient but very usable. Running three squads of double blight launcher with plasma champ gives some really good objective getting fire platforms that are hard to shift out of cover for only 118 pts a pop. The blight launchers are super reliable at putting out multi damage wounds onto whatever you need to put wounds on and are often ignored while the opponent tries to kill your super dangerous stuff.
If you want your troops to do nothing except not die, then yeah, plague bearers are better. Don't discount the Plague Marines because the internet says they arent the most efficient choice. They aren't playing or even watching your game, play the models you like and play them the best you can.

 Brymm wrote:
Just to chime in on Plague Marines: they aren't bad. Not super efficient but very usable. Running three squads of double blight launcher with plasma champ gives some really good objective getting fire platforms that are hard to shift out of cover for only 118 pts a pop. The blight launchers are super reliable at putting out multi damage wounds onto whatever you need to put wounds on and are often ignored while the opponent tries to kill your super dangerous stuff.
If you want your troops to do nothing except not die, then yeah, plague bearers are better. Don't discount the Plague Marines because the internet says they arent the most efficient choice. They aren't playing or even watching your game, play the models you like and play them the best you can.

This is true in general, if you try to put some wounds on bigger units and grab objectives.
However I find that my Plague Marines are just too points-inefficient to compete with the infantry of my main opponents (Guardsmen and Skitarii). They get obliterated by weapon fire my opponent has no other targets for anyways. Sure they are pretty survivable, but their Bolterfire (even with double-tap on 18") is very lackluster and the enemy just has so many more boots on the ground for the same points that he drowns Plague Marines in dice. I don't have the exact mathhammer results on me but it was something like 7 Plague Marines kill 2 Guardsmen a turn while taking 1 casualtiy statistically, which is 8pts vs 17pts killed. And that's without taking special weapons or buffs / orders into account.

 BleachHawk wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
Just to chime in on Plague Marines: they aren't bad. Not super efficient but very usable. Running three squads of double blight launcher with plasma champ gives some really good objective getting fire platforms that are hard to shift out of cover for only 118 pts a pop. The blight launchers are super reliable at putting out multi damage wounds onto whatever you need to put wounds on and are often ignored while the opponent tries to kill your super dangerous stuff.
If you want your troops to do nothing except not die, then yeah, plague bearers are better. Don't discount the Plague Marines because the internet says they arent the most efficient choice. They aren't playing or even watching your game, play the models you like and play them the best you can.

This is true in general, if you try to put some wounds on bigger units and grab objectives.
However I find that my Plague Marines are just too points-inefficient to compete with the infantry of my main opponents (Guardsmen and Skitarii). They get obliterated by weapon fire my opponent has no other targets for anyways. Sure they are pretty survivable, but their Bolterfire (even with double-tap on 18") is very lackluster and the enemy just has so many more boots on the ground for the same points that he drowns Plague Marines in dice. I don't have the exact mathhammer results on me but it was something like 7 Plague Marines kill 2 Guardsmen a turn while taking 1 casualtiy statistically, which is 8pts vs 17pts killed. And that's without taking special weapons or buffs / orders into account.

This. Plague Marines are pretty inefficient at 17pts a pop. The fact that they lack some more fluffy bolter ammo is also meh. Really irks me that codices (at least the rules part) are not written by a core team every time. But every author has his/her own take and this causes this weird disbalance between factions, if the author is a fanboy of the faction, you get something like AM, and when the author is lazy/careful you get something like DG. Copy paste units, copy paste strategems, handful of relics. Just meh.

How cool would it have been if we had some different bolter strategems for exotic plague ammunition? or with the plagueburst crawler or flamers being able to fire different cocktails of disease at their enemies. Nope, just bland plague weapons. Whatever. Hopefully CA alleviates some of the problems, but I'm not sure how bold GW is willing to go.

Plague marines definitely need a helping hand from CA. I’m reluctant to advocate for special things like the old school Sternguard special ammo but I do miss the old days of things being more unique. I’ve yet to run into situations where a pile of zombies aren’t more useful than Plague Marines which is a shame. Hopefully CA gives them a significant points reduction or an extra wound, something to show that Papa N cares about them slightly more than the walking dead.

Plague Marines are fine imo. They annoy my opponents, have good damage output even if somewhat short ranged and are a pain to remove, especially since usually there are more important things to shoot at (Bloat Drones, Princes) or because they use cover. I've had more success with them than with my Plague Bearers, who usually don't survive turn one despite being 30 strong. But since Daemons don't have other things all the firepower concentrates on them. And even if Plague bearers reach CC they are only okay with a scrivener and herold nearby, but for a pure CC-unit they don't have much punch.
Nurgle Daemons on their own are pretty hard to play imo, especially with rule of 3 in place. Without that you could spam herolds which are incredible for their point costs. Daemons supported by DG are fine, too. The DG can bring some firepower and distraction carnifexes which the daemons lack.

They are too fragile because they are only 1 wound. Fearless wounds are king on objectives. PM accomplish little with their two special weapons, and a 2+ save in cover and T5 isn’t of particular value compared to the 15+ bodies you could have instead. That’s my experience at least.

Three special weapons. They play different and can accomplish different things. In my lists and experience, my Plague Marines aren't shot at early or even mid game due to midfield threat overload. During that time the Plague Marines are scoring objectives and adding significant plasma/blight launcher fire for relatively cheap. As the game progresses my opponents generally run out of fire or time that can dislodge the PMs.
In practice when Ive run Pox Walkers, Plague Bearers or Cultists, they don't do what I need very well. In the first two I get no fire power obviously and the third they die easily to whatever my opponent has left and/or fail morale checks as we have no way to get fearless on them.

You gotta play your game and use what unit fills the role you need it to fill best. It isn't always take the most efficient choice. It's take the choice that does the job you need done. If you don't need your troops to do what Plague Marines do, then don't take them. But simply looking at efficiency misses a huge part of the game.

In the smash captain meta, I'm just not keen to show up to a game without a significant screen, and PMs are entirely inappropriate for that job. Once I've bought a big bag of PBs/cultists to screen the big hitters, and paid for the big hitters themselves, I've never had the free points (or need for any PMs).


PBs and cultists score the objectives just like PMs in the early game, whilst also providing a screen, and though they don't have the same firepower, I've got loads of dice coming from gatling cannons, butchers cannons, autocannons, plaguespitters etc and can't think of many situations where I'd find myself wishing I had those extra few plasmas, bolters, or blight launchers.

Fair point on the screens.
Metas may vary as according to Chapter Tactics and the BCP, post FAQ has seen a HUGE drop in Smash Captains. Screens are still needed but little red jerks are a lot less common.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and yeah, if they aren't needed, don't take them. Since I have almost no other form of multidamage shooting, they were it.

They're not so ubiquitous but there are still plenty around post-FAQ and there's a pretty high chance of meeting them in competitive circles. I Played two lists with six TH/JP/SS captains between them at a tournament over the weekend. Sure, only one can be the meta-build no-overwatch-and-all-the-attacks BA dill weed but all of them will seriously threaten knights, leviathans etc.

The deepstriking nerfs have made screening the back of the board less fundamental but you definitely still need solid padding.

 Brymm wrote:
Just to chime in on Plague Marines: they aren't bad. Not super efficient but very usable. Running three squads of double blight launcher with plasma champ gives some really good objective getting fire platforms that are hard to shift out of cover for only 118 pts a pop. The blight launchers are super reliable at putting out multi damage wounds onto whatever you need to put wounds on and are often ignored while the opponent tries to kill your super dangerous stuff.
If you want your troops to do nothing except not die, then yeah, plague bearers are better. Don't discount the Plague Marines because the internet says they arent the most efficient choice. They aren't playing or even watching your game, play the models you like and play them the best you can.

Well said, Plague marines might very well be the best power armor troop choice in the game right now with their durability, loadout flexibility, and synergy options. They wont win tournaments, but just because a unit isn't in the top 1% of units, doesn't mean that it is terrible. Top 10%, or even top 25% of units are awesome. Some of my most enjoyable games are with a ton of plague marines, and at the end of the day, enjoyment is all we are looking for.

That says more about power armour and terminator armour then it does about Plague Marines. I do prefer the imagery of slow units of plague marines marching across the table laying down a relentless hail of firepower. I don’t think they’re too far off from being able to mesh that vision with a reasonable points cost.

power armors are not point wise not in chaos nor in space marines chapter, pity.
chaos play cultists Dg play poxwalkers, at least list trying to get good results at major events, then in local store game you can play PM with good success, this at least in Italian ETC.

 blackmage wrote:
power armors are not point wise not in chaos nor in space marines chapter, pity.
chaos play cultists Dg play poxwalkers, at least list trying to get good results at major events, then in local store game you can play PM with good success, this at least in Italian ETC.

This is very true. It's not just Death Guard that have lackluster PA troops; there's a reason Thousand Sons players take Tzaangors instead of Rubric Marines. And the loyalists play Scouts instead of Tactical squads.

Here's hoping Chapter Approved takes all this into account, and we see price drops across the board on PA units, and while we're at it, Terminators as well.

I wonder if Plague Marines dropping to 15ppm is too much? Effectively in a 7 man unit that is a free plasma gun.

I agree that out of all PA infantry at the moment, PM's rank up as one of the better ones you can get. T5 and DR can make them very hard to shift to the point of frustratingly so.

Are they points efficient to the level of Kabalites and Guardsmen? Well no, but that is a different argument all together.

it's just an urban legend they are hard to dislodge no serious list has any problems deal with PM's.

In my experience, everything that's half decent at killing Plague Marines is trying to kill Mortarion, Terminators, Drones or Daemon Princes.

Not saying that they couldn't use a point drop, but there is a huge difference in durability between plague marines and other one wound power armored units. You can kill those with nothing but bolters.

 blackmage wrote:
it's just an urban legend they are hard to dislodge no serious list has any problems deal with PM's.

Indeed.

In my humble xp, my PM die pretty quickly. If I'm gonna field a unit that dies pretty quickly then it may as well be pox. The damage they do prior to dying always seems to be fairly inconsequential as well.

It's a real shame as I love PM (thematically and play-style wise) but I always do better running pox.

 Jidmah wrote:
In my experience, everything that's half decent at killing Plague Marines is trying to kill Mortarion, Terminators, Drones or Daemon Princes.

Not saying that they couldn't use a point drop, but there is a huge difference in durability between plague marines and other one wound power armored units. You can kill those with nothing but bolters.

Not my experience at all. Anything exceptional at killing plague marines are attacking more important things. Anything less than exceptional can attack PM; a pile of heavy bolters, or especially assault cannons, make mince meat of plague marines. Assault cannons are more efficient at killing PM than Pox point for point. That seems a bit off to me.

Pm dies by guards lasguns or marines bolters, no need to use heavy weapons , then as i said before many times anything depend where you play them, in competitive they aren't great, in semi competitive or casual games they can find their spot

 gwarsh41 wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
Just to chime in on Plague Marines: they aren't bad. Not super efficient but very usable. Running three squads of double blight launcher with plasma champ gives some really good objective getting fire platforms that are hard to shift out of cover for only 118 pts a pop. The blight launchers are super reliable at putting out multi damage wounds onto whatever you need to put wounds on and are often ignored while the opponent tries to kill your super dangerous stuff.
If you want your troops to do nothing except not die, then yeah, plague bearers are better. Don't discount the Plague Marines because the internet says they arent the most efficient choice. They aren't playing or even watching your game, play the models you like and play them the best you can.

Well said, Plague marines might very well be the best power armor troop choice in the game right now with their durability, loadout flexibility, and synergy options. They wont win tournaments, but just because a unit isn't in the top 1% of units, doesn't mean that it is terrible. Top 10%, or even top 25% of units are awesome. Some of my most enjoyable games are with a ton of plague marines, and at the end of the day, enjoyment is all we are looking for.

When sisters squad receive some real rules in CA2018 next month, they may be a good contender of best Powerarmored troops.

I hope death guard get some love. I enjoy the army but I hate playing to the "meta" which is IMHO a horrible unfluffy thing and very close to "badwrongfun" for me.

Considering doing stuff purely for fun/casual/local RTT play. I've thought of taking a Nurgle Daemon detachment with 30 Plaguebearers as I've had luck with those but I'm thinking now of 3 plague marine squads, blightlords (I love these guys even if they are expensive as hell; I keep them cheap and don't go with all combi-weapons. Combi-bolters and axes, flail and blight launcher), 2 drones, 2 crawlers, and some other things.

I've been watching a lot of 1750 battle reports as opposed to 2000, seems like a better point value overall for me. Doubt I can sell the locals on it though they prefer 2k.

I think this is the attitude of most players anyways. At events I've been to, only the top 10% of players plus an addition 10% of try-hards are running anything like "net lists" or meta lists. The other 80% are just playing the best version of the army they can make from the models they own.
Just play what you like and practice at winning with it. Learn the missions, make efficient choices for list building that will mirrior what you like playing. Don't live and die by the internet meta. That's the recipe for feels badsies.

 Brymm wrote:
I think this is the attitude of most players anyways. At events I've been to, only the top 10% of players plus an addition 10% of try-hards are running anything like "net lists" or meta lists. The other 80% are just playing the best version of the army they can make from the models they own.
Just play what you like and practice at winning with it. Learn the missions, make efficient choices for list building that will mirrior what you like playing. Don't live and die by the internet meta. That's the recipe for feels badsies.

Love this advice.

Do daemon engines like Plagueburst Crawlers or Decimators count toward the Epidemius tally?

 slave.entity wrote:
Do daemon engines like Plagueburst Crawlers or Decimators count toward the Epidemius tally?

Yes

First time running a DP this weekend. Now I see what all the fuss is about! Put Arch-contaminator and Suppurating Plate on him and had him in an Outrider detachment with 3 FBD (2 plaguespitters and 1 mower). They rampaged through everything they came into contact with! Lost the game but had great fun.

On another note, is it possible to run 3 FBD and a Chaos Sorcerer in one Outrider detachment using Heretic Astartes as the keyword? Know you can't use Chaos as a keyword anymore but Heretic Astartes links them both. And if so, would this give me access to Heretic Astartes strategems?

Cheers in advance.

 lare2 wrote:
First time running a DP this weekend. Now I see what all the fuss is about! Put Arch-contaminator and Suppurating Plate on him and had him in an Outrider detachment with 3 FBD (2 plaguespitters and 1 mower). They rampaged through everything they came into contact with! Lost the game but had great fun.

On another note, is it possible to run 3 FBD and a Chaos Sorcerer in one Outrider detachment using Heretic Astartes as the keyword? Know you can't use Chaos as a keyword anymore but Heretic Astartes links them both. And if so, would this give me access to Heretic Astartes strategems?

Cheers in advance.

I think you can. Page 4 of main rulebook FAQ declares that once you have an AL and a DG detachment, you can use Tide to bring a DG cultists unit back.

 lare2 wrote:
First time running a DP this weekend. Now I see what all the fuss is about! Put Arch-contaminator and Suppurating Plate on him and had him in an Outrider detachment with 3 FBD (2 plaguespitters and 1 mower). They rampaged through everything they came into contact with! Lost the game but had great fun.

On another note, is it possible to run 3 FBD and a Chaos Sorcerer in one Outrider detachment using Heretic Astartes as the keyword? Know you can't use Chaos as a keyword anymore but Heretic Astartes links them both. And if so, would this give me access to Heretic Astartes strategems?

Cheers in advance.

You can field that detachment, but you won't be getting access to stratagems - all codices explicitly require at least one "pure" detachment taken from that codex only to access stratagems.

 Jidmah wrote:

 lare2 wrote:
First time running a DP this weekend. Now I see what all the fuss is about! Put Arch-contaminator and Suppurating Plate on him and had him in an Outrider detachment with 3 FBD (2 plaguespitters and 1 mower). They rampaged through everything they came into contact with! Lost the game but had great fun.

On another note, is it possible to run 3 FBD and a Chaos Sorcerer in one Outrider detachment using Heretic Astartes as the keyword? Know you can't use Chaos as a keyword anymore but Heretic Astartes links them both. And if so, would this give me access to Heretic Astartes strategems?

Cheers in advance.

You can field that detachment, but you won't be getting access to stratagems - all codices explicitly require at least one "pure" detachment taken from that codex only to access stratagems.

Yep, this. If your sorcerer was DG, you would have access to DG stratagems and so on as it was a pure DG detachment. But if your sorcerer chooses a different legion from the CSM codex, you con't have access to their stratagems and legion tactics.

Cheers for the pointers! Was mainly after a way to sneak in Heretic Astartes stratagems without having very many CSM units. Looks like I'm back to running an Alpha Legion patrol.

You would get psychic powers though. Sweet sweet Warptime.

 Brymm wrote:
You would get psychic powers though. Sweet sweet Warptime.

If you take a Sorceror on Palanquin of Nurgle from the index, you can still get dark hereticus spells and STILL be battleforged! It's why I am planning on building one, also because it looks cool.

DudleyGrim wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
You would get psychic powers though. Sweet sweet Warptime.

If you take a Sorceror on Palanquin of Nurgle from the index, you can still get dark hereticus spells and STILL be battleforged! It's why I am planning on building one, also because it looks cool.

Yeah, this is a pretty cool trick that’s going to be useable for the time being by virtue of mounted chaos characters being ignored - until somebody wins a tourney whilst using it, whereby it’ll get FAQ’d to death.

I'd like to point out that the communities/events banning indexes is increasing rapidly since the ork codex has been released.

Check with your local meta whether index is still an option before building a model.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'd like to point out that the communities/events banning indexes is increasing rapidly since the ork codex has been released.

Check with your local meta whether index is still an option before building a model.

Well, to rabbithole, that kills my Slaanesh Daemons rushdown. Gonna have to get a DP done up, then. Still not as useful as mounted Herald.

To get back on topic, Nurgle isn’t affected badly, right? Didn’t have a fast herald to lose, and the Index didn’t even have rules for the Palanquin one.

Nurgle Daemons are safe for now by virtue of getting a new release last year.

Slaanesh is getting something soon though.

I personally have been redoing my own collection with only the newest units released (all as planned GW...).

Its not that I don't trust or appreciate the Index,but I feel the codes and game itself is balanced toward the new Xodex options.

CA Leaks:
Biologus Putrefier -14
Blightlord Terminators -4
Cultists +1
Land Raider -39 (Twin lascannon -10 each)
Terminator Lord -10
Chaos Spawn -8
Daemon Prince with Wings +-0
Deathshroud +-0 (Plaguespurt Gauntlet -8)
Defiler -20
Helbrute -12 (Helbrute fist -10 each, Helbrute Plasma cannon -14, Reaper Cannon -5, Power Scourge -8)
Lord of Contagion -5 (Plague Reaper -10)
Myphitic Blighthauler -10 (Bilespurt -5, Missile Launcher -5, Multimelta -5)
Noxious Blightbringer -8 (Plasma Pistol -2)
Plague Marines -1
Plague Surgeon -5
PBC +-0 (Entropy Cannon -5 each)
Possessed -2
Sorceror in Terminator Amror -18
Tallyman -5 (Plasma Pistol -2)

Combi-Melta -4
Combi-Plasma -4
Plague Spewer -4
Plasma gun -2

Not bad GW, not bad.
Big winners for us seem to be helbrutes (86 for fist/plasma cannon!) and the blighthauler (117 per model now).

Points change in CA 2018 :

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour : 105 -> 95 : -10pts

Lord of Contagion : 100 -> 95 : -5pts

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour : 120 -> 102 : -18pts


Cultists : 4 -> 5: +1pts

Plague Marines : 17 -> 16 : -1pts


Biologus Putrifier : 74 -> 60 : -14pts

Blightlord Terminators : 38 -> 34 : -4pts

Deathshroud Terminators : Plaguespurt Gauntlet 8 -> 0 : -8pts

Helbrute : 72 -> 60 : -12pts

Noxious Blightbringer : 58 -> 50 : -8pts, Plasma pistol 7 -> 5 : -2pts : TOTAL -10pts

Plague Surgeon : 59 -> 54 : -5pts

Possessed : 22 -> 20 : -2pts

Tallyman : 55 -> 50 : -5pts, Plasma pistol 7 -> 5 : -2pts : TOTAL -7pts


Chaos Spawn : 33 -> 25 : -8pts

Myphitic Blight-Haulers : 85 -> 75 : -10pts, Bile spurt 5 -> 0 : -5pts, Missile Launcher 25 -> 20 : -5pts, Multi-melta : 27 -> 22 : -5pts : TOTAL : -25pts


Chaos Land Raider : 239 -> 200, 2x Twin Lascannon : 2x50 -> 2x40 : -59pts

Defiler : 140 -> 120 : -20pts


Changes on wargear :

Plasma pistol : 7 -> 5 : -2pts

Plasma gun : 13 -> 11 : -2pts

Combi-plasma : 15 -> 11 : -4pts

Helbrute Plasma Cannon : 30 -> 16 : -14pts

Meltagun : 17 -> 14 : -3pts

Combi-melta : 19 -> 15 : -4pts

Multi-melta : 27 -> 22 : -5pts

Flamer : 9 -> 6 : -3pts

Combi-flamer : 11 -> 8 : -3pts

Plague belcher : 10 -> 7 : -3pts

Plague spewer : 19 -> 15 : -4pts

Twin Heavy-flamer : 34 -> 28 : -6pts

Entropy Cannon : 20 -> 15 : -5pts

Missile Launcher : 25 -> 20 : -5pts

Twin Lascannon : 50 -> 40 : -10pts

Reaper Autocannon : 15 -> 10 : -5pts

Havoc Launcher : 11 -> 6 : -5pts

Heavy Stubber : 4 -> 2 : -2pts




Plaguereaper : 30 -> 20 : -10pts

Power fist : 12 -> 9 : -3pts

Chainfist : 22 -> 11 : -11pts

Helbrute fist : 40/50 -> 30/40 : -10pts

Helbrute hammer : 52 -> 30 : -22pts

Power scourge : 48 -> 35 : -8pts


Daemons points changes :

GUO sword + blade : 325 -> 275 : -50pts
GUO sword + flail : 325 -> 285 : -40pts
GUO bell + blade : 325 -> 295 : -30pts
GUO bell+ flail : 325 -> 305 : -20pts

Rotigus : 330 -> 285 : -45pts

Spoilpox Scrivener : 75 -> 95 : +20pts

Plague Drones : 34 -> 40 : +6pts

Meijin wrote:
Points change in CA 2018 :

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour : 105 -> 95 : -10pts

Lord of Contagion : 100 -> 95 : -5pts

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour : 120 -> 102 : -18pts


Cultists : 4 -> 5: +1pts

Plague Marines : 17 -> 16 : -1pts


Biologus Putrifier : 74 -> 60 : -14pts

Blightlord Terminators : 38 -> 34 : -4pts

Deathshroud Terminators : Plaguespurt Gauntlet 8 -> 0 : -8pts

Helbrute : 72 -> 60 : -12pts

Noxious Blightbringer : 58 -> 50 : -8pts, Plasma pistol 7 -> 5 : -2pts : TOTAL -10pts

Plague Surgeon : 59 -> 54 : -5pts

Possessed : 22 -> 20 : -2pts

Tallyman : 55 -> 50 : -5pts, Plasma pistol 7 -> 5 : -2pts : TOTAL -7pts


Chaos Spawn : 33 -> 25 : -8pts

Myphitic Blight-Haulers : 85 -> 75 : -10pts, Bile spurt 5 -> 0 : -5pts, Missile Launcher 25 -> 20 : -5pts, Multi-melta : 27 -> 22 : -5pts : TOTAL : -25pts


Chaos Land Raider : 239 -> 200, 2x Twin Lascannon : 2x50 -> 2x40 : -59pts

Defiler : 140 -> 120 : -20pts


Changes on wargear :

Plasma pistol : 7 -> 5 : -2pts

Plasma gun : 13 -> 11 : -2pts

Combi-plasma : 15 -> 11 : -4pts

Helbrute Plasma Cannon : 30 -> 16 : -14pts

Meltagun : 17 -> 14 : -3pts

Combi-melta : 19 -> 15 : -4pts

Multi-melta : 27 -> 22 : -5pts

Flamer : 9 -> 6 : -3pts

Combi-flamer : 11 -> 8 : -3pts

Plague belcher : 10 -> 7 : -3pts

Plague spewer : 19 -> 15 : -4pts

Twin Heavy-flamer : 34 -> 28 : -6pts

Entropy Cannon : 20 -> 15 : -5pts

Missile Launcher : 25 -> 20 : -5pts

Twin Lascannon : 50 -> 40 : -10pts

Reaper Autocannon : 15 -> 10 : -5pts

Havoc Launcher : 11 -> 6 : -5pts

Heavy Stubber : 4 -> 2 : -2pts




Plaguereaper : 30 -> 20 : -10pts

Power fist : 12 -> 9 : -3pts

Chainfist : 22 -> 11 : -11pts

Helbrute fist : 40/50 -> 30/40 : -10pts

Helbrute hammer : 52 -> 30 : -22pts

Power scourge : 48 -> 35 : -8pts


Daemons points changes :

GUO sword + blade : 325 -> 275 : -50pts
GUO sword + flail : 325 -> 285 : -40pts
GUO bell + blade : 325 -> 295 : -30pts
GUO bell+ flail : 325 -> 305 : -20pts

Rotigus : 330 -> 285 : -45pts

Spoilpox Scrivener : 75 -> 95 : +20pts

Plague Drones : 34 -> 40 : +6pts

Thank you!

Why the flying feth were plague drones and the scrivener nerfed so hard? Were they THAT good? I haven't seen those units around that much.

This gets me gurgly with nurgly.

After waiting over a year for the Ork book, I'm just... not terribly excited to build lists for them, and went back to my Death Guard instead.

Now that I've received substantial price cuts, I can really build more fun lists. Chaos Spawn arent outclassed by Plague Drones. Guess I won't be selling mine off! And the elite characters getting cheaper means they will be seeing more table time.

I'm thrilled! With these discounts, I can squeeze a Plagueburst Crawler into my 2000 point list. I feel like I've really been missing out on having one, so I'm excited to get to include some artillery!

You know, its actually possible to run a death guard brigade now and have quite a lot of anti-armor in it! The key is to bring 3 basic laspreds (no sponsons) and 3 twin lascannon hellbrutes. That's your elite and heavy slots taken care of, and then take 3 spawn for FA slots. (And you have at least 12 lascannons between all the laspreds and las hellbrutes).

Round up your 6 troop choices however you like. (I think 6 squads of min 5 man plague marines are good). And 3 characters and there, you now have a brigade! May even have points left over for some plague burst crawlers.

And best of all, you now have 15 CPs to play with... lol

Gryphonne wrote:
Why the flying feth were plague drones and the scrivener nerfed so hard? Were they THAT good? I haven't seen those units around that much

run a scrivener with 120 Pb's then you realize. Btw 20 more points is nothing, take out 3 Pb's out of 120 and you keep play as before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
You know, its actually possible to run a death guard brigade now and have quite a lot of anti-armor in it! The key is to bring 3 basic laspreds (no sponsons) and 3 twin lascannon hellbrutes. That's your elite and heavy slots taken care of, and then take 3 spawn for FA slots. (And you have at least 12 lascannons between all the laspreds and las hellbrutes).

Round up your 6 troop choices however you like. (I think 6 squads of min 5 man plague marines are good). And 3 characters and there, you now have a brigade! May even have points left over for some plague burst crawlers.

And best of all, you now have 15 CPs to play with... lol

and when you face a true horde what you do with 12 lascannons? you kill average 8 orks/gants or 6pb's each turn? unless you play tailored lists against spècific opponents.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
You know, its actually possible to run a death guard brigade now and have quite a lot of anti-armor in it! The key is to bring 3 basic laspreds (no sponsons) and 3 twin lascannon hellbrutes. That's your elite and heavy slots taken care of, and then take 3 spawn for FA slots. (And you have at least 12 lascannons between all the laspreds and las hellbrutes).

Round up your 6 troop choices however you like. (I think 6 squads of min 5 man plague marines are good). And 3 characters and there, you now have a brigade! May even have points left over for some plague burst crawlers.

And best of all, you now have 15 CPs to play with... lol

Too bad most of the DG strats are cabbage.

Brigades are overrated for pretty much any army except Astra Militarum. Usually it involves bringing too many "tax units" that you wouldn't want to bring otherwise.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
You know, its actually possible to run a death guard brigade now and have quite a lot of anti-armor in it! The key is to bring 3 basic laspreds (no sponsons) and 3 twin lascannon hellbrutes. That's your elite and heavy slots taken care of, and then take 3 spawn for FA slots. (And you have at least 12 lascannons between all the laspreds and las hellbrutes).

Round up your 6 troop choices however you like. (I think 6 squads of min 5 man plague marines are good). And 3 characters and there, you now have a brigade! May even have points left over for some plague burst crawlers.

And best of all, you now have 15 CPs to play with... lol

Too bad most of the DG strats are cabbage.

Brigades are overrated for pretty much any army except Astra Militarum. Usually it involves bringing too many "tax units" that you wouldn't want to bring otherwise.

Hmmm, I dunno... Imagine if I use fire frenzy, daemon forge, kill shot and veterans of the long war every turn. Thats 4 CP per turn already. And there is a strategem for a whole unit to chuck blight grenades (good against hordes). Thats another 1 or 2 CP. There is also the very expensive strategem that resurrects or heals a unit. Sounds like can easily blow through 15 CP within 4 turns.

Gryphonne wrote:
Why the flying feth were plague drones and the scrivener nerfed so hard? Were they THAT good? I haven't seen those units around that much.

Scriveners were insane and still are. If you haven't noticed you must have not been running 60-150 plaguebearers. Hitting on 3s and walking as fast as Eldar? Yeah, the nerf is warranted. They are still auto-take in any Nurgle daemons-centric list.

 slave.entity wrote:

Gryphonne wrote:
Why the flying feth were plague drones and the scrivener nerfed so hard? Were they THAT good? I haven't seen those units around that much.

Scriveners were insane and still are. If you haven't noticed you must have not been running 60-150 plaguebearers. Hitting on 3s and walking as fast as Eldar? Yeah, the nerf is warranted. They are still auto-take in any Nurgle daemons-centric list.

Yeah, bringing Plague bearers without scrivener is like... bringing poxwalkers without Typhus.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
This gets me gurgly with nurgly.

After waiting over a year for the Ork book, I'm just... not terribly excited to build lists for them, and went back to my Death Guard instead.

Now that I've received substantial price cuts, I can really build more fun lists. Chaos Spawn arent outclassed by Plague Drones. Guess I won't be selling mine off! And the elite characters getting cheaper means they will be seeing more table time.

So funny you said that because I'm the same. I got the ork book had a flick through then carried on playing DG. Now with new points drops I'm not touching my orks. I was loving running 3X5 man squads of PM's with triple plasma overcharging with a lord nearby. This just got cheaper

 slave.entity wrote:

Gryphonne wrote:
Why the flying feth were plague drones and the scrivener nerfed so hard? Were they THAT good? I haven't seen those units around that much.

Scriveners were insane and still are. If you haven't noticed you must have not been running 60-150 plaguebearers. Hitting on 3s and walking as fast as Eldar? Yeah, the nerf is warranted. They are still auto-take in any Nurgle daemons-centric list.

I agree with this... and he still is an Auto Take.

The Drone nerf was weird though; they're good, but 34 points was already kinda ehhh... but 40 points? yeash


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
You know, its actually possible to run a death guard brigade now and have quite a lot of anti-armor in it! The key is to bring 3 basic laspreds (no sponsons) and 3 twin lascannon hellbrutes. That's your elite and heavy slots taken care of, and then take 3 spawn for FA slots. (And you have at least 12 lascannons between all the laspreds and las hellbrutes).

Round up your 6 troop choices however you like. (I think 6 squads of min 5 man plague marines are good). And 3 characters and there, you now have a brigade! May even have points left over for some plague burst crawlers.

And best of all, you now have 15 CPs to play with... lol

Too bad most of the DG strats are cabbage.

Brigades are overrated for pretty much any army except Astra Militarum. Usually it involves bringing too many "tax units" that you wouldn't want to bring otherwise.

I agree here, Brigades are AM or Ork territory. DG has a few very good strats, but you have to dip into CSM or 1k Sons to get stuff like Demonforge.

DG is best at Battalion level. And Lascannons are over-rated this edition unless you bring a LOT (like.... a LOT) due to the way the rules work and the prevalence of invun saves. I would still take a renegade gatling knight over 3 laspreds and 3 helbrutes for less; its harder to kill, and dishes out more damage on all targets.


On another note... defiler points drop was definitely needed, and makes me happy because I can actually use mine (possibly) now. I wish Typhus had dropped a few points, he is just too expensive when his sole purpose seems to be following poxes around. I also never realized my DG demon princes were 170 points... I've been paying 180!

 Zid wrote:

I also never realized my DG demon princes were 170 points... I've been paying 180!

180 when you factor in their melee weapon.

Plague Drones vs Chaos Spawn did seem disproportionate to me from the get go. For one point more than a Spawn you got +3 movement, 5++, 5+++, and reroll to wound.

I am glad Spawn got a drop, it makes them an option again. A bit miffed Drones got a bump, but they were seen in every competitive Nurgle Daemons lists (locally at least) so I'm not surprised.

I myself, would auto include drones (and therefore a separate Daemon detachment) in every Nurgle list I had as a Daemon Prince Escort, and had shelved the Spawn that used to perform the same role. That said, since the Spawn dropped, Drones should have stayed the same. But I'm happy to bring Spawn back on the table this weekend.

So what's your opinions on typical competitive components in a DG after these changes? Like, what would be worth using?

murphs wrote:

 Zid wrote:

I also never realized my DG demon princes were 170 points... I've been paying 180!

180 when you factor in their melee weapon.

Righto! I was missing something then... still, Renegade Knights getting cheaper was a boon


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gryphonne wrote:
So what's your opinions on typical competitive components in a DG after these changes? Like, what would be worth using?

Same ol' same ol', however, Blightlords are even better now (Combi Plas, base cost down); Defilers may start getting seen more, 20 points off isn't bad at all, makes them sub 150 for the best loadout. Less cultists will see play, they took a lot of hits. Plague Marines may see more play because blighthaulers don't cost an ungodly amount anymore. More Hellbrutes overall, more big beatsticks. You might start seeing Entropy Cannons more now, the PBC using 2x entropy is only 135 I believe (forget the cost of the stubber).

I think you will see less Demons, though; while the big beasts went down, a lot of staple units (as far as nurgle does) went up... which makes it a wash in that aspect.

Oh, and Renegade Knights are even better; they got overall cheaper. Which makes my Nurgle Knights list really happy.

 Zid wrote:

Oh, and Renegade Knights are even better; they got overall cheaper. Which makes my Nurgle Knights list really happy.

I must be missing something in the leaks. What reductions are there for Renegade Knights?

nfe wrote:

 Zid wrote:

Oh, and Renegade Knights are even better; they got overall cheaper. Which makes my Nurgle Knights list really happy.

I must be missing something in the leaks. What reductions are there for Renegade Knights?

Cost of weapons went down, if you look at the Adeptus Mechanicus leaks. For example, the icarus autocannon went down to 20 points, and I believe the heavy flamers dropped as well (which come with the gatling cannon). Its only a slight drop, but its enough I might fit another nurgling base in

25pts reduction on Blight-Haulers is incredible for me

I’ve been interested in Blightlords - I like the models - and this really sweetens them

Yeah I thought the only thing holding back MBH in the past was points, now I save 75pts on three! Oh snap! Also, saving points on PM squads and characters all generally going down in points, maybe we'll see more from Death Gaurd besides Morty and PBCs.

 Brymm wrote:
Yeah I thought the only thing holding back MBH in the past was points, now I save 75pts on three! Oh snap! Also, saving points on PM squads and characters all generally going down in points, maybe we'll see more from Death Gaurd besides Morty and PBCs.

I think we may see a resurgence of MBH + Plague Marine hordes a bit, also Hellbrutes I think will be a cheap source of AT in some lists. Contemptors going down makes a case on that front as well... I dunno, a brave new meta is upon us! The biggest question(s) are the changes to castellan (we didn't see anything from the leaks) and Drukhari (didn't see them at all either)... which are two heavy hitters

 Zid wrote:
I wish Typhus had dropped a few points, he is just too expensive when his sole purpose seems to be following poxes around. I also never realized my DG demon princes were 170 points... I've been paying 180!

I have been playing him a lot lately and I found him to work much better when he is just doing his thing (fething stuff up with his scythe and casting powers), with poxes following him around... maybe. I basically use him as a more durable daemon prince, with as little as a single unit of pox walkers on the army rooster. I either deep strike him with blight lords/on his own and try to get off charges while smiting and casting Blades of Puterfaction or Putrecent Vitaility on nearby terminators or plageu marines. I've also had decent success with deploying him dead center and just moving him up with the main body of the army. He can be kited easily though, so when there is nothing within 18" of him, you might as well just have him squat on an objective for the rest of the game.

Gryphonne wrote:
So what's your opinions on typical competitive components in a DG after these changes? Like, what would be worth using?

Sadly, its a no-brainer really...

3xPBC babysat by a prince with arch contaminator,talons, and plate.
3xDeredeo Pattern Dreadnought with butcher cannon array and greater havoc launchers. (they were fantastic, and now they are cheaper because "reasons"...)
The rest is up to you, and missions played.

I'm just catching up on the 14th Legion in the 41st millennium. I love my Dodo in 30K but have they really been buffed to be an auto include in 40K?

I like my DG to have a "echo" of the past so I was planning on using converted 30K chassis and armour mks etc. I'm also sitting on a spare Dodo right now....

Dodo? As Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought?
But if so, then yeah. At 198pts, the amount of shots, at high BS with good S is simply that good

My Blightlord unit dropping nearly 60 points has me very excited

-75 pts off three Myphitic Blight Haulers is where it's at.

The cover save rule for PMs is just a bonus you probably won't even use. Have your friendly Arhiman cast Prescience and Warptime on them and go to town. A potential -2 to hit in combat. Just a great jamming unit.

 Wibe wrote:

Gryphonne wrote:
So what's your opinions on typical competitive components in a DG after these changes? Like, what would be worth using?

Sadly, its a no-brainer really...

3xPBC babysat by a prince with arch contaminator,talons, and plate.
3xDeredeo Pattern Dreadnought with butcher cannon array and greater havoc launchers. (they were fantastic, and now they are cheaper because "reasons"...)
The rest is up to you, and missions played.

I like those Deredeos a lot. Double butcher leviathan got a massive 40pt drop too. But the 3D3 S6 mortar shots at 48" is quite tempting. I feel like many of the sad CSM players on Reddit don't know what they're missing. Chaos soup has access to some pretty incredible units right now.

My default list basically comes with an additional myphitix blightcrawler now without dropping anything

 Wibe wrote:

Gryphonne wrote:
So what's your opinions on typical competitive components in a DG after these changes? Like, what would be worth using?

Sadly, its a no-brainer really...

3xPBC babysat by a prince with arch contaminator,talons, and plate.
3xDeredeo Pattern Dreadnought with butcher cannon array and greater havoc launchers. (they were fantastic, and now they are cheaper because "reasons"...)
The rest is up to you, and missions played.

What would you take as a “secondary” weapon on the Deredeo? Butcher cannon and Havoc are quite obvious. But do you go cheap from there and just take the twin HB?

EDIT: nvm, the HB is actually the only other option possible.

I'm very underwhelmed by CA. Sure, I can pack a few more things now, but my main opponents can as well (AdMech) or are still way more efficient (AstraMilitarum).

Instead of all the point drops, which will make the game even deadlier because many factions have more things on the board, they should have adapted faction and / or unit rules IMHO.
Like making chapter / legion traits work on more units, fixing the stupid "no disgustingly resilient" on lots of DG units, giving LandRaiders some help to actually do their job, and so on.
Missed opportunities...

Oh well, I guess I should just do some games. Maybe it's not that bad after all. I will definitely try out Helbrutes and Blightlords now.

 BleachHawk wrote:
I'm very underwhelmed by CA. Sure, I can pack a few more things now, but my main opponents can as well (AdMech) or are still way more efficient (AstraMilitarum).

Instead of all the point drops, which will make the game even deadlier because many factions have more things on the board, they should have adapted faction and / or unit rules IMHO.
Like making chapter / legion traits work on more units, fixing the stupid "no disgustingly resilient" on lots of DG units, giving LandRaiders some help to actually do their job, and so on.
Missed opportunities...

Oh well, I guess I should just do some games. Maybe it's not that bad after all. I will definitely try out Helbrutes and Blightlords now.

I kinda feel the same. At first I was thinking, this is class! Look at all these point drops! And then I looked at the other factions and thought that they're just gonna cancel each other out.

Another thing I was thinking about - they recently dropped the pts to 1750 to speed up games. This has affected my local tourney scene as well. Now with the new CA, people can fit in more units and negate the reasons for dropping the pts. I'm not too sure what the point is. This making sense?

Anywho, shouldn't whinge as my MBH have been sitting gathering dust for a while now but they're definitely getting reconsidered!

 lare2 wrote:

 BleachHawk wrote:
I'm very underwhelmed by CA. Sure, I can pack a few more things now, but my main opponents can as well (AdMech) or are still way more efficient (AstraMilitarum).

Instead of all the point drops, which will make the game even deadlier because many factions have more things on the board, they should have adapted faction and / or unit rules IMHO.
Like making chapter / legion traits work on more units, fixing the stupid "no disgustingly resilient" on lots of DG units, giving LandRaiders some help to actually do their job, and so on.
Missed opportunities...

Oh well, I guess I should just do some games. Maybe it's not that bad after all. I will definitely try out Helbrutes and Blightlords now.

I kinda feel the same. At first I was thinking, this is class! Look at all these point drops! And then I looked at the other factions and thought that they're just gonna cancel each other out.

Another thing I was thinking about - they recently dropped the pts to 1750 to speed up games. This has affected my local tourney scene as well. Now with the new CA, people can fit in more units and negate the reasons for dropping the pts. I'm not too sure what the point is. This making sense?

Anywho, shouldn't whinge as my MBH have been sitting gathering dust for a while now but they're definitely getting reconsidered!

Cheaper points means more minis means more sales. Now that we are all used to a specific game size and tournaments are set in what they are, GW could drop points and get a sales bump.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

 lare2 wrote:

 BleachHawk wrote:
I'm very underwhelmed by CA. Sure, I can pack a few more things now, but my main opponents can as well (AdMech) or are still way more efficient (AstraMilitarum).

Instead of all the point drops, which will make the game even deadlier because many factions have more things on the board, they should have adapted faction and / or unit rules IMHO.
Like making chapter / legion traits work on more units, fixing the stupid "no disgustingly resilient" on lots of DG units, giving LandRaiders some help to actually do their job, and so on.
Missed opportunities...

Oh well, I guess I should just do some games. Maybe it's not that bad after all. I will definitely try out Helbrutes and Blightlords now.

I kinda feel the same. At first I was thinking, this is class! Look at all these point drops! And then I looked at the other factions and thought that they're just gonna cancel each other out.

Another thing I was thinking about - they recently dropped the pts to 1750 to speed up games. This has affected my local tourney scene as well. Now with the new CA, people can fit in more units and negate the reasons for dropping the pts. I'm not too sure what the point is. This making sense?

Anywho, shouldn't whinge as my MBH have been sitting gathering dust for a while now but they're definitely getting reconsidered!

Cheaper points means more minis means more sales. Now that we are all used to a specific game size and tournaments are set in what they are, GW could drop points and get a sales bump.

The points changes can't be viewed in a vacuum as this isn't the complete picture. CA 2018 is balanced around the new missions, which include the 7th edition style of deployment (the person going first deploys completely, then second player counter deploys), the change to being tabled no longer ending the game (play the mission as thats what matters), and other changes.

Phone is acting up, did not mean to post...

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
-75 pts off three Myphitic Blight Haulers is where it's at.

The cover save rule for PMs is just a bonus you probably won't even use. Have your friendly Arhiman cast Prescience and Warptime on them and go to town. A potential -2 to hit in combat. Just a great jamming unit.

That's not a bad idea. Also funny to bring them back to life with bell GUO.

While I like the changes to the blight hauler I don't think it will make them more viable, only because their loadout is meh and you still really need 3. It is a good thing, though, and I hope we see at least experimentation with them.

Blightlords dropping is great because I love those.

Wayniac wrote:
While I like the changes to the blight hauler I don't think it will make them more viable, only because their loadout is meh and you still really need 3. It is a good thing, though, and I hope we see at least experimentation with them.

Blightlords dropping is great because I love those.

I have exclusively run 3 blight haulers for a while now, and I must say, they always do the business in games. People tend to target the Drones first, which allows the MBH to get across the battlefield and into position to do some real damage. Having a DP move with them is also advisable as it gives them rerolls, and allows for a counter charge to free them up from combats you don't wish to avoid.

The massive points drop on the Contemptor Dreads with BC's has me thinking of running them in lieu of my normal 2x Armigers. I think a gunline of Gatling Renegade Knight + 3 Contemptors w/ BC's may be pretty neat.... shore it up with some PBC love (gotta get some mortars for those things outta LOS) and cheap bodies... might be a winning combo! Only thing thats slightly holding me back is I won't be able to run my Blightspawns.... which I love, they are amazing anti-flier tech.

I'm also a bit surprised that Typhus didn't drop in points. Ideally he should be priced around 150

So, 2 questions:
Best load out for cheap Chaos Lord: Balesword, possible Plasma Pistol, or just a Power fist?

Termy Armor?

And 2nd: Helbrutes or Blight haulers?

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
So, 2 questions:
Best load out for cheap Chaos Lord: Balesword, possible Plasma Pistol, or just a Power fist?

Termy Armor?

And 2nd: Helbrutes or Blight haulers?

My cheap lord - plasma pistol and sword, which can change from power to bale depending on points. I kinda wish I'd kitted him out with just a bolt pistol. The only reason I have him is to sit at the back with something shooty. Vary rarely do I actually want him to do anything beyond rerolling 1s.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
I'm also a bit surprised that Typhus didn't drop in points. Ideally he should be priced around 150

I think that is a bit too cheap. Typhus is a beatstick, and a sorcerer, and he is durable as heck. All he is missing from being a perfect character is the "re-roll all hits for DG units" that other chapter masters get. I know he gets a bad rep on the internet, but he always does insanely well for me. I wouldn't mind him being cheaper, but I'm ok paying his current points for him.

I always buy the plague bringer relic for my chaos lord - with it he has a decent chance to completely wipe something he did a heroic intervention on or counter-charged, while a power or bale sword feels more like poking something with a stick.

Greatest feat so far is charging into a unit of shining spears that bounced off a PBC he was buffing and killing five of them with the help of putrefying blades and VotLW.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
So, 2 questions:
Best load out for cheap Chaos Lord: Balesword, possible Plasma Pistol, or just a Power fist?

Termy Armor?

And 2nd: Helbrutes or Blight haulers?

I have never run Hellbrutes, but I really love my blight haulers. While it does suck after one is killed because BS/WS drop to 4+ they are extremely survivable with a 3+/5++/5+++ with a -1 to hit in close combat.

Anyone looking into/trying Defilers? As part of a CSM detach with Sorceror? They aren't great, but they might be great distraction carnifexes. They are now only 142 a pop with the scourge and autocannon (158 with twin heavy flamer). Contrary to a Crawler, they can also fight in melee, which, against Knights is still pretty powerful with Daemonforge. Honestly, they *might* be a bit of a hidden gem.

Yeah, Defilers are really cheap now. And they are not so easy to kill. If you have them in a seperate detachment with a sorceror with warp time. They can move up the board really fast, maybe even far enough to do a first turn charge. Hard for anyone to ignore a huge thing like that if its already right in their face. If you take a slanassh sorceror. You can give the defiler FNP as well. Even harder to kill now.

I think Defilers and cheap Hellbrutes make a great addition to the Deathguard army after chaptor approved now. Between those and PBC, there is just too much armour for most lists to be able to shoot off the board on turn 1. And they add a substantial amount of teeth to the DG army too.

I have a couple of conversions from last year that I need to find the right count-as rules for.

1: A mini Knight of Nurgle. I did him before Armigers were a thing, so he's armed with a tiny automatic battlecannon and chainsword, just like the big guy, which ticked me off when Armigers came out and he had the wrong gear. He's basically a Stormfiend with DP legs and a million bits, so a bit taller than a normal dread.

2: A slightly bigger mini Knight based on Boneripper from Fantasy, so 4 arms. No guns so far because I thought this time I'd actually decide on a datasheet before building it further, I thought maybe two guns and two CCWs.


3: A knight. On horseback and everything. Well, two, but the second is half finished. Armed with Plaguespitter from the termis and a sword.

I will try and get pics uploaded later.

I thougt maybe Bloat Drone rules for the mounted knights, as they're riding half-corporeal steeds made out of demonic mustard gas. If the Knight of Shrouds can fly, then the Death Guard dude stealing his horse should be able to fly as well And I could run them with the Shartor-based centaur DP I want to do build one day. Unsure about the "Knight", originally I just thought I'd use him (and his two buddies I'll do once I know what to run them as) as a hellbrute, but now there are a bazillion FW dreads and the Armigers to choose from.

 Binabik15 wrote:
I have a couple of conversions from last year that I need to find the right count-as rules for.

1: A mini Knight of Nurgle. I did him before Armigers were a thing, so he's armed with a tiny automatic battlecannon and chainsword, just like the big guy, which ticked me off when Armigers came out and he had the wrong gear. He's basically a Stormfiend with DP legs and a million bits, so a bit taller than a normal dread.

2: A slightly bigger mini Knight based on Boneripper from Fantasy, so 4 arms. No guns so far because I thought this time I'd actually decide on a datasheet before building it further, I thought maybe two guns and two CCWs.


3: A knight. On horseback and everything. Well, two, but the second is half finished. Armed with Plaguespitter from the termis and a sword.

I will try and get pics uploaded later.

I thougt maybe Bloat Drone rules for the mounted knights, as they're riding half-corporeal steeds made out of demonic mustard gas. If the Knight of Shrouds can fly, then the Death Guard dude stealing his horse should be able to fly as well And I could run them with the Shartor-based centaur DP I want to do build one day. Unsure about the "Knight", originally I just thought I'd use him (and his two buddies I'll do once I know what to run them as) as a hellbrute, but now there are a bazillion FW dreads and the Armigers to choose from.

Effective rules for 1 and 2: Chaos Armiger, or FW index Contemptor-class dreads. Leviathan is competitive but your model may be too small for it.
for 3: how about a Daemon Prince? GW codex remove "steeds-riding" hero options for chaos astartes, and the index options are also not quite competitive.

Anyone else notice in CA2018 we can now customis a death guard chaos lord. Ok its only for open play but you can give a regular lord +1T and resislient (5+ dr save).

darthryan wrote:
Anyone else notice in CA2018 we can now customis a death guard chaos lord. Ok its only for open play but you can give a regular lord +1T and resislient (5+ dr save).

Ideally GW pulls its head out of its backside in the spring and gives DG proper chaos lords.

Hello all

Many years ago I started a nurgle army back in 6th edition based around nurgle demons with an ally detachment of Death Guard.I finished most of it and played a few games and had fun with it. Now that some of my current projects are done, I am looking for my next major project so thought i would update my disease spreading hug machines. My old list is very infrantry heavy and I want to keep it that way. Not looking for ITC competitive, but I would like to not just be ROFL stomped every game. Keeping everything in multiple of 7 and 7*7 overall would be preferable.

I currently have Typhus, 21 old metal plague marines, 7 nurgle converted bikers, 3 obliteraters, 49 zombies/ poxwalkers, and a ton of nurgle demons.

So any units I should add? How are the terminators/deathshroud? What infrantry squad loadouts as I understand they got a whole bunch of new special weapons and melee weapons in the new box. Also what books would I need?

Thanks

mightymconeshot wrote:
Hello all

Many years ago I started a nurgle army back in 6th edition based around nurgle demons with an ally detachment of Death Guard.I finished most of it and played a few games and had fun with it. Now that some of my current projects are done, I am looking for my next major project so thought i would update my disease spreading hug machines. My old list is very infrantry heavy and I want to keep it that way. Not looking for ITC competitive, but I would like to not just be ROFL stomped every game. Keeping everything in multiple of 7 and 7*7 overall would be preferable.

I currently have Typhus, 21 old metal plague marines, 7 nurgle converted bikers, 3 obliteraters, 49 zombies/ poxwalkers, and a ton of nurgle demons.

So any units I should add? How are the terminators/deathshroud? What infrantry squad loadouts as I understand they got a whole bunch of new special weapons and melee weapons in the new box. Also what books would I need?

Thanks

Ayup, welcome back to Papa Nurgle

Rule-wise, you’ll be wanting Codices for Death Guard and Daemons, and maybe Chaos Space Marines. Your bikers can’t be DG any more, I’m afraid, and likewise your Obliterators; could use the latter as Blightlord Terminators, I suppose, but they are a really decent unit.

Your Plague Marines have just been given a price cut, which was needed, and if you’ve given them a load of Plasma Guns then I have good news for you - DG have Legion bonuses giving them a longer range on the double-tap. There’s also a lot of new weapons in the Plague Marines kit - there’s melee builds that are a bit pricey (but include a preposterously strong flail), loads of poisoned flamer equivalents, and a powerful medium-ranged multi-shot gun. I’d perhaps put the stabby squads in transports, TBH... they might not be a great fit for a horde.

Typhus has nice synergy with a horde of Poxwalkers, though he’s pretty slow to move. Teleporting him in isn’t a bad idea.

Nurgle Daemons are excellent - Nurglings have brilliant deployment rules that give them top tier board control, Plaguebearers are nicely robust, Plague Drones are pretty good in large numbers with a few buffs, Heralds can cast a healing spell... Epidemius is awesome if you’re taking a Daemons/DG/CSM alliance with Daemon Engines, Daemon Princes (who can now hide behind any friendly unit and provide an excellent aura buff - and are certainly viable beatsticks to advance with the creeping infantry tarpit), and Obliterators. Nurgle Daemonkin is very doable and just got a big price cut on a load of key units.

A DG infantry horde army will probably appreciate the new Blightbringer, who makes you advance faster; Blight-Haulers, which are mobile gun turrets that provide a smokescreen for DG Infantry; perhaps a Tallyman, who gives DG units rerolls in melee; and maaaybe a Plague Surgeon, who improves DG Infantry durability. (Again, all of these happen to have just got price cuts.) There’s also new Daemon characters who buff Plaguebearers and Nurglings - Nurgle can march pretty quickly with a well-built list.

One limitation of DG is they can’t cast the same psychic powers as the other Legions - if you want to take your Obliterators and count them as Iron Warriors or such, an accompanying non-DG Sorcerer casting Warptime to make something move twice, and Death Hex to kill an enemy unit’s invulnerable saves, or Prescience to improve a unit’s accuracy, can be a massive boon. (I love boosting the aforementioned Blight Haulers this way. They can be quite a terror.)

Sounds good.

So if you were to take a 7 man of plague marines how would you equip it? I am willing to convert up melee weapons. I want a nice mix of cc squads and close range support squads. And yes, plenty of plasma as that is what those old metal boxes had.

My own most frequently used seven man PM squads:
- three Plasma Guns (the Champion can take one). Very efficient midfield gunner and objective camper, my most frequent choice of DG troops unit after Cultists and Poxwalkers
- two Blight Launchers and a Plasma gun. Not as powerful as all Plasma, but 6” more range on the double tap
- two Plague spewers, Plasma Gun and power fist, two flails, two Bubotic Axes. Ride up in a Rhino. Jump out and boot something off an objective, dare infantry to charge their overwatch. If Blightlord Terminators have teleported in as a deep insertion force, I might pop the Cloud Of Flies Stratagem (which disallows shooting at the unit unless it’s the closest target) to prevent this unit from being swept. (Seven wounds exposed on an important hill won’t last long in 8ed, even with DG endurance perks.)

I'm not a fan of plasma since I rarely take the risk to Overcharge, especially on expensive Plague Marines, so I find Blight Launchers are safer, have a steady d3 damage, and get a reroll to wound. The Plasma gun is good for the Champ as it's a unique option (and I just use the Plasma marine from Dark Imperium).

I suppose an optimal DG list would focus on Plague Weaponry and all the buffs available to them.

Arch contaminator, Blades of Putrefaction, VOTLW all synergize well, and should be the main focus of any DG army. I'm currently rebuilding my entire DG force to have as many Plague Weapons as possible because (IMO in 8th edition) any free rerolls your army can get is key.

I dont really like the idea of using a Prince to babysit, so I think Chaos Lord Kranon of the Dark Vengeance set can finally get painted up as a pre heresy Death Guard (who was clearly unworthy of Nurgles proper t5 and FNP stats). His giant sword will make a pretty cool Plaguereaper, and in my own character backstory, would be the true source of his Arch Contaminator aura.

Still kinda wish Lightning claws were cheaper so my Termy Lord would be a (fun fluffy) somewhat viable option, but he is currently outdone by a cheaper balesword and Arch Contaminator combo.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I'm not a fan of plasma since I rarely take the risk to Overcharge, especially on expensive Plague Marines, so I find Blight Launchers are safer, have a steady d3 damage, and get a reroll to wound. The Plasma gun is good for the Champ as it's a unique option (and I just use the Plasma marine from Dark Imperium).

I suppose an optimal DG list would focus on Plague Weaponry and all the buffs available to them.

Arch contaminator, Blades of Putrefaction, VOTLW all synergize well, and should be the main focus of any DG army. I'm currently rebuilding my entire DG force to have as many Plague Weapons as possible because (IMO in 8th edition) any free rerolls your army can get is key.

I dont really like the idea of using a Prince to babysit, so I think Chaos Lord Kranon of the Dark Vengeance set can finally get painted up as a pre heresy Death Guard (who was clearly unworthy of Nurgles proper t5 and FNP stats). His giant sword will make a pretty cool Plaguereaper, and in my own character backstory, would be the true source of his Arch Contaminator aura.

Still kinda wish Lightning claws were cheaper so my Termy Lord would be a (fun fluffy) somewhat viable option, but he is currently outdone by a cheaper balesword and Arch Contaminator combo.

I agree. I use an Arch Contaminator prince to follow my bloat drones, but since hes got an expanded bubble thanks to the helm, he's often touching 2 or 3 plague marine squads for a few turns letting my Blight launchers do work. I think a lot of options in our book synergize really well but aren't taken together often because they aren't seen as competative choices. I think blight launcher spam could have a place in min/max plague marine squads, like a double battalion of 30 PMs all rocking double blight launcher and plasma gun. Near the arch contaminators giant bubble, you're controlling a big part of the board and raining down some death. Sprinkle in your favorite daemon engines and you got a list!

The helm does not effect warlord traits

darthryan wrote:
The helm does not effect warlord traits

This has come up often. It does. The closest to official came from the GW facebook page. GW says it does. It does. The link is somewhere back in this thread and probably linked in YMDC. Plus, I ran it at a 100+ person GT and had the judge rule on it. Search for the link.

The helm doesn't exclude any auras your character has, so any Warlord Traits that are auras would in fact benefit. That relic is possibly the best one in our book, although the Suppurating Plate isn't bad either, especially on a Prince.

It says it effects auras on the models dataslate anyone claiming it works on warlord traits either cant read or is cheating

I'm building a nurgly chaos lord with a jump pack, power fist and plasma pistol. 107p and if you give him the suppurating plate it's budget DP'ish in small games. Does anyone see a place for this dude and off-topic question.. Could you picture the plate look like spiky armour like how thorns worked in diablo 2. I want it to look different from regular power armour..

Xirax wrote:
I'm building a nurgly chaos lord with a jump pack, power fist and plasma pistol. 107p and if you give him the suppurating plate it's budget DP'ish in small games. Does anyone see a place for this dude and off-topic question.. Could you picture the plate look like spiky armour like how thorns worked in diablo 2. I want it to look different from regular power armour..

I really like this idea and think he'd work pretty well in the role you envisage. Thinking he'd be ideal in 1k games.

In regards to the armour, it's described as bloated, with tubes and pipes through which gunk flows. That's pretty much how I picture it as well - brimming with bile which pops over the sod who dares to so much as scratch it.

darthryan wrote:
It says it effects auras on the models dataslate anyone claiming it works on warlord traits either cant read or is cheating

For the lazy persons who won't bother to search: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1927707404216556&id=1575682476085719

Your welcome

Razzmatazz13 wrote:

darthryan wrote:
It says it effects auras on the models dataslate anyone claiming it works on warlord traits either cant read or is cheating

For the lazy persons who won't bother to search: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1927707404216556&id=1575682476085719

Your welcome

Much appreciated for this. Heard about this many times but never actually seen it. Until it's in a FAQ though, imagine there'll be plenty of arguments.

It has been noted that this source is a social media team member saying they play it in their office this way, and contradictory answers have supposedly been given from the same platform on other occasions. It’s not an FAQ, it’s not RAW, it’s not binding on TO’s.

Edit: also, two clicks away from the rules answer link that’s been floated around:

Official 40k Facebook page wrote:And a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio. We might be able to give you some general advice or point you in the right direction but better to try and work it out with your gaming buddies.

Facebook posts are not end of. End of.

Now. Moving forwards, the Black Templars _The Crusader’s Helm_ Relic has the same effect, and there’s no FAQ on that, either. The matter remains open, and it’s not restricted to us - I suggest we all email 40kfaq@gwplc.com and ask for a clarification of both (bringing the corpse-god’s lackeys into it should get their attention ) and on this matter either wait or take it to WMDC.

Hi all, played my first game with the deathguard in a while yesterday and thought I'd post my opinions.

Was playing against a heavy melee ork list.

Mortarion was a boss all game, -1 to hit power made is so their shooting just wasn't enough to hurt him.
First time I've used the deathshroud termites, they are deadly! And the bodyguard ability soaked all of ghazzys hits against morty, the ork player was not happy.

With the points drops my plague marine squads felt pretty reasonably costed, happy to use them now.

I ran typhus with two blocks of zombies, he seems a little expensive now given the reduction in other characters but he's still good and the buffing aura on the zombies is really clutch.

Daemon prince with relic armour is still great.

Blight hauler, i ran one of these and they have dropped a bit making them pretty good but I think I may need one or two more. Seem like they may be the best (and one of the only) proper sources of ranged anti tank we have access to. What everyone else using for this (pure Dg)?

Whats the best way to handle Hordes?

I feel that the meta has evolved in such a way that DG being a resilient but relatively low damage output army will get swamped by hordes and crushed by Castellan style lists unless we take a list designed specifically to face one of these.

Is it possible at 1750 - 2k to build a robust TAC list?

I think we are in a good place against hordes we have tons of "flamer" type weapons.

Flamers are terrible against hordes...

You need three PBC and three drones to have a decent chance of wiping out a horde unit per turn unless moral helps you - which it doesn't a lot of times when army rules or characters provide morale protection.

In my experience the best pure DG unit for killing hordes are pox walkers, followed by blightlord terminators (bolters and flails).

Pox walkers can grow back in numbers by using the dead walk again and shooting the horde unit with bolters, PBC's sluggers or the blight crawler blight spurt. Then they charge and gain even more numbers. Most horde units like horrors, don't have enough combat power to take out an entire unit of pox walkers in one go. Against boyz or bloodletters you'll need some buff though, like Typhus aura or the putrescent vitality power.
Terminators are more straight forward. Have 10 of them teleport in, shoot, charge. What ever is left will struggle to kill them and usually fall back to not get wiped out.
If you really need a horde unit gone and you have not more pressing targets, Mortarion will probably blow any unit away with ease by throwing his grenades into them, then casting plague wind and smite, having his aura tick and finally sweep them away with 18 attacks. Probably not an efficient use for him though. Depends on the game though - I had im charge a large unit of brimstones in a recent game because I drew the 1 VP per 7 models killed maelstrom cards. A juicy 4 VP are worth murdering a 180 unit of trash with a daemon primarch.

If you want to branch out of DG, a helvrine or renegade knight is great, as are plague bearers.

I would disagree about the PBCs and Bloat Drones not being good vs hordes. Each one puts out average 7 hits that are wounding on 2s with rerolls. Three drones will kill about 21 dudes (t3 tshirts) or 18 (t3 with 5+) and still be able to charge. Can't get bogged down due to fly and can fry next turn. I use drones to sweep out cheap objectives or attack together to take out a large unit of cultists or guard.

I have found them lacking even against cultists and guardsmen (2d6 rarely kill 10 models) and fare even worse when trying to kill horrors, boyz, plague bearers or gene stealers.

Played against Orks last night, my PBCs killed more boyz than my 3 knights! Flamers are definitely the way to go vs horde armies.

BTW I lost that game lol

My pure death guard really struggled against a tau list today. All those ****ing shield drones were even more resilient than my dudes. Nothing I had could deal with the Taunar. Ended up just shooting drones for 5 turns before being tabled.

List was about as good as I can get with mono death guard.

3 units of plague marines with blight launchers, blight spawn
Arch Contaminator lord, daemon prince, and plague caster
Bloat drone, 6 plague drones
ML Las Brute, AC Las Predator, Land Raider, Rhino

I plan on ditching Brute and Land Raider for PBC and MBH. I just need those Lascannons. Still, just a bad match up in general.

I still find anti-tank to be the hardest thing for me as mono-Death Guard. On Friday I did a 125 PL match against an all-Primaris Ultramarine list w/Primaris Calgar. He had 3 Dreads (2x Venerable, 1x regular) with TL Lascannon and Fist, a Repulsor, I think 3 or 4 Intercessor squads, 2 Inceptor squads, an Ancient, A Primaris Libby, a Primaris Lieutenant and Calgar with the Victrix Guard, using the Indomitus Crusader specialist detachment. We played one of the new Eternal War missions from CA18, "Cut The Head" (which are amazing btw).

I took.. two Daemon Princes (one with Wings, 2 Talons and Suppurating Plate, one on foot with Sword+Plague Spewer who was Warlord w/Arch Contaminator and the helm which we play as affecting warlord traits), Typhus, 5 Blightlord Terminators (took all combi-plasma and axes, 1 Flail 1 Blight Launcher because PL), 3 Blight-Haulers, 1 Crawler with Spitters, 2 Drones w/Spitters, 3x 7-man plague marine squads (2x with 2 launchers and plasma/fist champ, 1 with 2 plasma and plasma/fist champ) and 20 poxwalkers.

He basically crippled my Crawler turn 1 and destroyed it top of 2 but everything else was pretty durable (except the poxwalkers but I forgot to use Cloud of Flies on them). he committed Calgar too far out and I had Typhus oneround him with like 5 attacks (thanks to DTTFE) even with his half damage armor; I ended up doing something like 10 wounds to him. I ended up winning as I killed 2 of his heroes bottom of 3 while I had all 3 (so I was getting 3 VP a turn to his 1) and then top of 4 he failed to kill any of my heroes (Typhus and my winged prince were on 1 wound) and then bottom of 4 I killed his librarian who was his last hero that could get points and he conceded as he had no way to win, so I won 7 VP to 1.

I found that I really need something to deal with a lot of vehicles/walkers, as I didn't have much that could. The Blight Haulers were not enough at all although I only lost 1 during the course of the game.

 Jidmah wrote:
I have found them lacking even against cultists and guardsmen (2d6 rarely kill 10 models) and fare even worse when trying to kill horrors, boyz, plague bearers or gene stealers.

2d6 average is 7 hits though. Why would you think that would kill 10 models in a turn? Or did you mean in the entire game?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wayniac wrote:
I still find anti-tank to be the hardest thing for me as mono-Death Guard. On Friday I did a 125 PL match against an all-Primaris Ultramarine list w/Primaris Calgar. He had 3 Dreads (2x Venerable, 1x regular) with TL Lascannon and Fist, a Repulsor, I think 3 or 4 Intercessor squads, 2 Inceptor squads, an Ancient, A Primaris Libby, a Primaris Lieutenant and Calgar with the Victrix Guard, using the Indomitus Crusader specialist detachment. We played one of the new Eternal War missions from CA18, "Cut The Head" (which are amazing btw).

I took.. two Daemon Princes (one with Wings, 2 Talons and Suppurating Plate, one on foot with Sword+Plague Spewer who was Warlord w/Arch Contaminator and the helm which we play as affecting warlord traits), Typhus, 5 Blightlord Terminators (took all combi-plasma and axes, 1 Flail 1 Blight Launcher because PL), 3 Blight-Haulers, 1 Crawler with Spitters, 2 Drones w/Spitters, 3x 7-man plague marine squads (2x with 2 launchers and plasma/fist champ, 1 with 2 plasma and plasma/fist champ) and 20 poxwalkers.

He basically crippled my Crawler turn 1 and destroyed it top of 2 but everything else was pretty durable (except the poxwalkers but I forgot to use Cloud of Flies on them). he committed Calgar too far out and I had Typhus oneround him with like 5 attacks (thanks to DTTFE) even with his half damage armor; I ended up doing something like 10 wounds to him. I ended up winning as I killed 2 of his heroes bottom of 3 while I had all 3 (so I was getting 3 VP a turn to his 1) and then top of 4 he failed to kill any of my heroes (Typhus and my winged prince were on 1 wound) and then bottom of 4 I killed his librarian who was his last hero that could get points and he conceded as he had no way to win, so I won 7 VP to 1.

I found that I really need something to deal with a lot of vehicles/walkers, as I didn't have much that could. The Blight Haulers were not enough at all although I only lost 1 during the course of the game.

I find blight haulers to be really good for anti tank, and if you can hide a Quad Lascannon Predator in ruins, that can do some damage with a little luck.

One of the best tricks I like to use is to put Morty front and center with a squad of Deathshroud in front of him and a blight hauler in range of the terminators to give them cover for a 1+ save to mitigate AP. Most players can't help but dump shots into Morty, which generally won't be enough to bring him down, and it preserves the rest of your army for return fire.

take a superheavy detachment with IK and helverins plus PBC he cant deal with everything, and if you start first you could wreak some havoc

Anyone tried a 10-man Blightlord unit buffed to the max? I'm considering trying it out

 Virules wrote:
Anyone tried a 10-man Blightlord unit buffed to the max? I'm considering trying it out

yes in the right list they are a powerhouse, 2 flails 2 blightlaunchers thypus for miasma and putrescent vitality or blades+VOTLW, they kill almost anything they touch, you need to play alternative big threats Don Hooson BAO list is a good example.

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I have found them lacking even against cultists and guardsmen (2d6 rarely kill 10 models) and fare even worse when trying to kill horrors, boyz, plague bearers or gene stealers.

2d6 average is 7 hits though. Why would you think that would kill 10 models in a turn? Or did you mean in the entire game?

The point is that it doesn't. You can't take an objective with a single drone because there will be two or three cultists left sitting around still claiming that objective. You can't clear out a unit of guardsmen to shoot/smite the officer behind them.

Two drones are 272 points, having that many points take out a single unit which cost the enemy 40-70 points is rarely a good game decision. Especially since those spitters are great against a lot of other things as well. Therefore I do not think that plague spitters are an effective anti-horde tool.

Are Plagueburst Crawlers still as good after Chapter Approved? Plaguespitter ones stayed the same cost, but with all the decreases that’s almost a point hike. Are entropy cannons still basically a trap, even with the -5 points on each?

with ab 4+ and penalties to move and shoot nothing changed about entropy cannons, still very unreliable, you face something with just a -1 to hit and your PBC are trash.

Atlatl Jones wrote:
Are Plagueburst Crawlers still as good after Chapter Approved? Plaguespitter ones stayed the same cost, but with all the decreases that’s almost a point hike. Are entropy cannons still basically a trap, even with the -5 points on each?

They are still as awesome as before. The cannons are still bad. PBCs are a unit that by most standards are undercosted. How much should a T8 model with 12 wounds costs with an indirect fire gun, two auto hitting super flamers and a decent anti infantry gun, an invul save and 5+ FNP cost? .... If you say it should cost 140 points I would call you crazy. Take a look at the new reduced price of a monolith or even all of the land raider variants. This thing would be a steal at 175.

 Jidmah wrote:
I have found them lacking even against cultists and guardsmen (2d6 rarely kill 10 models) and fare even worse when trying to kill horrors, boyz, plague bearers or gene stealers.

Thats why you combine PBC's with other stuff.

For example, my recent tourney list ran 3 PBC's, 2 Foul Blightspawns, 1 DG Demon prince, 1 1k Sons DP, 1 Khorne demons DP, a ton of plaguebearers, and a couple other characters; it was able to kill 60 Grotz, 90 boyz, 10 MANZ, 25 Lootas, plus other characters, and by the end of the game only 3 boyz and one Kannon was left. Things like Plague Wind are amazing anti-horde tech, as well as Gatling Knights, and more.

I generally choose models that serve multiple purposes, or can be used for multiple purposes in my lists; Contemptors can be anti-tank or horde or elite, for example. PBC's are bulwarks that can kill pretty much anything given enough time and the proper buffs (arch-contaminator). Hordes really is a lot easier for us than Armor in many cases.


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 Virules wrote:
Anyone tried a 10-man Blightlord unit buffed to the max? I'm considering trying it out

Unsupported they can do a lot of damage even, casting VOTLW on them and shooting combi-bolters they can take a huge chunk from something. Not to mention the Flails do a ton of damage... I'm gonna be testing 10 in some new battle reps


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Wayniac wrote:
I still find anti-tank to be the hardest thing for me as mono-Death Guard. On Friday I did a 125 PL match against an all-Primaris Ultramarine list w/Primaris Calgar. He had 3 Dreads (2x Venerable, 1x regular) with TL Lascannon and Fist, a Repulsor, I think 3 or 4 Intercessor squads, 2 Inceptor squads, an Ancient, A Primaris Libby, a Primaris Lieutenant and Calgar with the Victrix Guard, using the Indomitus Crusader specialist detachment. We played one of the new Eternal War missions from CA18, "Cut The Head" (which are amazing btw).

I took.. two Daemon Princes (one with Wings, 2 Talons and Suppurating Plate, one on foot with Sword+Plague Spewer who was Warlord w/Arch Contaminator and the helm which we play as affecting warlord traits), Typhus, 5 Blightlord Terminators (took all combi-plasma and axes, 1 Flail 1 Blight Launcher because PL), 3 Blight-Haulers, 1 Crawler with Spitters, 2 Drones w/Spitters, 3x 7-man plague marine squads (2x with 2 launchers and plasma/fist champ, 1 with 2 plasma and plasma/fist champ) and 20 poxwalkers.

He basically crippled my Crawler turn 1 and destroyed it top of 2 but everything else was pretty durable (except the poxwalkers but I forgot to use Cloud of Flies on them). he committed Calgar too far out and I had Typhus oneround him with like 5 attacks (thanks to DTTFE) even with his half damage armor; I ended up doing something like 10 wounds to him. I ended up winning as I killed 2 of his heroes bottom of 3 while I had all 3 (so I was getting 3 VP a turn to his 1) and then top of 4 he failed to kill any of my heroes (Typhus and my winged prince were on 1 wound) and then bottom of 4 I killed his librarian who was his last hero that could get points and he conceded as he had no way to win, so I won 7 VP to 1.

I found that I really need something to deal with a lot of vehicles/walkers, as I didn't have much that could. The Blight Haulers were not enough at all although I only lost 1 during the course of the game.

Helbrutes are now cheap enough to fulfill AT pretty handily, as are Contemptor Dreads. I'm working on converting 3 myself; 8 str 8 shots + d6 str 5 shots for 144 points at BS 2 is really a steal.

 Zid wrote:
Unsupported they can do a lot of damage even, casting VOTLW on them and shooting combi-bolters they can take a huge chunk from something. Not to mention the Flails do a ton of damage... I'm gonna be testing 10 in some new battle reps

With the drops in combi-weapon costs I've been thinking of ways of making them work with combi-plasma, but you're right that cheap combi-bolsters are good for anti-horde.

Have you found them useful for assault? They, like the Deathshroud, are so slow it's not difficult to kite them.

Helbrutes are now cheap enough to fulfill AT pretty handily, as are Contemptor Dreads. I'm working on converting 3 myself; 8 str 8 shots + d6 str 5 shots for 144 points at BS 2 is really a steal.

I'm tempted to give my Deredeo a Hellfire Veil to give Helbrutes a 5++. I don't know if that's better than just taking the Greater Havoc Launcher and letting the Helbrutes die more quickly, but I like the image of it.

Atlatl Jones wrote:

 Zid wrote:
Unsupported they can do a lot of damage even, casting VOTLW on them and shooting combi-bolters they can take a huge chunk from something. Not to mention the Flails do a ton of damage... I'm gonna be testing 10 in some new battle reps

With the drops in combi-weapon costs I've been thinking of ways of making them work with combi-plasma, but you're right that cheap combi-bolsters are good for anti-horde.

Have you found them useful for assault? They, like the Deathshroud, are so slow it's not difficult to kite them.

Helbrutes are now cheap enough to fulfill AT pretty handily, as are Contemptor Dreads. I'm working on converting 3 myself; 8 str 8 shots + d6 str 5 shots for 144 points at BS 2 is really a steal.

I'm tempted to give my Deredeo a Hellfire Veil to give Helbrutes a 5++. I don't know if that's better than just taking the Greater Havoc Launcher and letting the Helbrutes die more quickly, but I like the image of it.

Terminators ought to be where their lack of speed isn't an issue. Breaking bunkers, clearing objectives, threatening parking lots.

I haven't had too much problems with them, when you have a goal for them. Haven't tried a full 10 in a squad, could be very interesting with all buffs giving such a nice return of investment.

In retrospect I wish I had given my 10 Blightlords combi-bolters instead of combi-plasmas, but oh well. I am going to try a list with 10 of them, a Chaos Lord for reroll 1s, and an allied Sorcerer to give them Prescience.

Atlatl Jones wrote:

 Zid wrote:
Unsupported they can do a lot of damage even, casting VOTLW on them and shooting combi-bolters they can take a huge chunk from something. Not to mention the Flails do a ton of damage... I'm gonna be testing 10 in some new battle reps

With the drops in combi-weapon costs I've been thinking of ways of making them work with combi-plasma, but you're right that cheap combi-bolsters are good for anti-horde.

Have you found them useful for assault? They, like the Deathshroud, are so slow it's not difficult to kite them.

Helbrutes are now cheap enough to fulfill AT pretty handily, as are Contemptor Dreads. I'm working on converting 3 myself; 8 str 8 shots + d6 str 5 shots for 144 points at BS 2 is really a steal.

I'm tempted to give my Deredeo a Hellfire Veil to give Helbrutes a 5++. I don't know if that's better than just taking the Greater Havoc Launcher and letting the Helbrutes die more quickly, but I like the image of it.

I haven't had a chance to put all 10 on the field (used a 5 man squad a few times), but you need to deploy them maximum coherancy to minimize your opponents movement options (and thus, ability to avoid them) and use them to bully a couple objectives. They are extremely hard to kill. Combi-bolters seem best with them because you pop VOTLW, and they get 28 bolter shots with +1 to wound. Plasma has better AP, but same damage and you shouldn't be overcharging them.

Movements not a big deal if you surround whatever your going after that way if you fail a charge they can't move far enough from you to try again. It also makes it so no matter which way they go they most likely won't get further away from your lords.

Lastly, you want to minimize the amount you spend to support them; the squad is already close to 500 points. You should have a demon prince with fly that can come support after they drop, and at MOST you want to dedicate a Blades of Putrefaction spell to them; vitality is a waste because most stuff will wound them on 5+ or 3+, very few things are str 6 so why bother? On the same token, Str 6 on them doesn't allow them to wound things like tanks any better because most are T7.

TLDR: Take the squad with bolters, only use blades on them, deploy them in a long line or in a way to minimize your opponents options.


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 Virules wrote:
In retrospect I wish I had given my 10 Blightlords combi-bolters instead of combi-plasmas, but oh well. I am going to try a list with 10 of them, a Chaos Lord for reroll 1s, and an allied Sorcerer to give them Prescience.

Prescience is only worth it if your taking 1k sons sorcerers; that way you have a higher chance to get it off, and a reliable smite platform to boot. Even so, I wouldn't purposely build my list to support the lords; once the lords surround their target and get in its probably gonna die.

I'm attempting a list that relies on pinning the enemy with waves of Nurglings, then a wave of blightlords supported by a bunch of ranged damage to clear screens and/or pummel the stuff that can hurt the Blightlords so they can do Papa Nurgles work

10 termies have a decent footprint, they cant be avoided forever, they also have decent firepower, 6 combi bolters+2 blight launchers, i dont think they are useful as well with combiplasma.
The only list i had good results with 10 man termy units, was Don Hooson list.

@Zid - when you say 28 Bolter shots with Blightlords, is that a cheap squad of seven? Or are there some flails in there as well, a launcher or two?

 lindsay40k wrote:
@Zid - when you say 28 Bolter shots with Blightlords, is that a cheap squad of seven? Or are there some flails in there as well, a launcher or two?

Sorry 24 shots in a 10 man, i mathed wrong (2x flails snd 2x blightlauncher)


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 blackmage wrote:
10 termies have a decent footprint, they cant be avoided forever, they also have decent firepower, 6 combi bolters+2 blight launchers, i dont think they are useful as well with combiplasma.
The only list i had good results with 10 man termy units, was Don Hooson list.

Dons new list for lvo uses them still and is drastically different; you can make them perform well if you revolve the list around them.

Post CA any hope for Morty in a competitive list? I'm trying to justify taking him with the decrease in deathshroud but perhaps I'm fooling myself.

 Zid wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
@Zid - when you say 28 Bolter shots with Blightlords, is that a cheap squad of seven? Or are there some flails in there as well, a launcher or two?

Sorry 24 shots in a 10 man, i mathed wrong (2x flails snd 2x blightlauncher)


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 blackmage wrote:
10 termies have a decent footprint, they cant be avoided forever, they also have decent firepower, 6 combi bolters+2 blight launchers, i dont think they are useful as well with combiplasma.
The only list i had good results with 10 man termy units, was Don Hooson list.

Dons new list for lvo uses them still and is drastically different; you can make them perform well if you revolve the list around them.

yes but ITC is too much different than ETC, hardly you can have same degree of succes with pure ITC lists in ETC, here missions rely heavily on objectives. I tried old Don's list but most times you need to table the opponent or you struggle control objectives end game, with new CA missions you need lot of models on the table.



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 buddha wrote:
Post CA any hope for Morty in a competitive list? I'm trying to justify taking him with the decrease in deathshroud but perhaps I'm fooling myself.

what changed for Morty post CA? nothing, so he remain an average choice, just a drop in point for deathsrouds dont justify take him.

Just received some Death Shroud termies as a gift. What are some good tricks and tips for them, or should I just expect them to be a showpiece unit...

they can be decent as Mortarion bodyguard, for the rest they are too slow they have only melee weapons or that short range flamer that you cant use when DS (only 6" range)

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Just received some Death Shroud termies as a gift. What are some good tricks and tips for them, or should I just expect them to be a showpiece unit...

Showpiece. Until they get a new data sheet buffing them, they are too slow, even if they lock in on a target when they deep strike in people will ignore them.

They really need to be buffed to like 3 or 4 wounds, then they could be a great body guard unit akin to hive guard.


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 buddha wrote:
Post CA any hope for Morty in a competitive list? I'm trying to justify taking him with the decrease in deathshroud but perhaps I'm fooling myself.

Hes just as good as he always has been.

He suffers the same weakness as Magnus though; likely to get tabled turn 1, even with support, unless you get first and warptime him over.

People have had success with Magnus and Morty, its just how lucky are your dice.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Just received some Death Shroud termies as a gift. What are some good tricks and tips for them, or should I just expect them to be a showpiece unit...

I put them in front of Morty and have them tank wounds. Add a blight hauler to give them a 1+ cover save which will mitigate AP. If you get first turn, advance them up and hope for a good roll, then jump Morty over them to set up a nice T2 charge. Not going to win GTs but can definitely win you games.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Just received some Death Shroud termies as a gift. What are some good tricks and tips for them, or should I just expect them to be a showpiece unit...

Having some success deepstriking them in with a terminator lord this last month. Only run them in eternal war really and point them at an objective. Found in the past that people would just ignore them and they're too slow to really do anything. In the set pieces created by eternal war though, the enemy doesn't want to give up the objective and it allows them to zero in on a unit and do what they do best - choppy choppy!

Have the infection node box arriving shortly, my only other Death Guard are formed from the Conquest! series.

Thinking the following:

Blightlord Terminators, have the easy build ones arriving, no idea what they are armed with but the goal is a unit of eight, a flail and likely a blight launcher (for the range to be able to do something when deep striking), the rest with combi bolters - aim being deep strike to tackle medium infantry on an objective as reading here they are pants at taking on elites but good at taking on medium and lighter troops.

Plague Marines, have a five man squad, plus a second easy build sergeant currently, aiming to add the seven new ones to get a squad of six and a squad of seven, both with a plasma/power first sergeant and a pair of blight launchers.

Q: does these seem sensible?

Q: what sort of additional close combat weapons are worth adding to the PM, or is it best to keep them cheap?

leopard wrote:
Have the infection node box arriving shortly, my only other Death Guard are formed from the Conquest! series.

Thinking the following:

Blightlord Terminators, have the easy build ones arriving, no idea what they are armed with but the goal is a unit of eight, a flail and likely a blight launcher (for the range to be able to do something when deep striking), the rest with combi bolters - aim being deep strike to tackle medium infantry on an objective as reading here they are pants at taking on elites but good at taking on medium and lighter troops.

Plague Marines, have a five man squad, plus a second easy build sergeant currently, aiming to add the seven new ones to get a squad of six and a squad of seven, both with a plasma/power first sergeant and a pair of blight launchers.

Q: does these seem sensible?

Q: what sort of additional close combat weapons are worth adding to the PM, or is it best to keep them cheap?

Plague marines work best with 2 blightlaunchers and bolters in squads of 5, or as a massive 20 man squad with dual knives and some blighthaulers to provide cover and use the infinite mortal wound grenade shenanigans (needs the grenade character). Plague marines overall, though, arent that great; they die pretty fast, and power armor is a premium we pay for not much benefit.

I would up the blightlords to 10 man, get 2 flails, 2 blightlaunchers, all axes, and combi bolters. They are very hard to remove and can do a surprising amount of damage

Chees, was thinking of a full ten man squad of them at some point, that pretty much confirms it as needed, will be eight to start with as thats what I'll have.. but more will join them, possibly more of the easy build once I've seen them.

PM get the plasma & fist leader as thats the model I've got but otherwise sounds like 2x blight launchers then keep the rest cheap?

big mob would be nice, and if we could split squads between multiple transports I would..

that said a Storm Eagle is very tempting as a model

Why do people run plaguespitters on their PBCs? Entropy cannons provide far more DPS and start killing stuff turn one. Every game people use plaguespitters on their PBCs rarely to never get to use them and now they even cost more. ECs also give the much needed anti-tank capability death guard needs. Leave the plaguespitters for the drones who really maximize their usage with fhe fly keyword.

broxus wrote:
Why do people run plaguespitters on their PBCs? Entropy cannons provide far more DPS and start killing stuff turn one. Every game people use plaguespitters on their PBCs rarely to never get to use them and now they even cost more. ECs also give the much needed anti-tank capability death guard needs. Leave the plaguespitters for the drones who really maximize their usage with fhe fly keyword.

Volume of shots, you get 2d6 that autohit at str 7. Entropy cannons are two shots at bs 4+ (5+ if tou move) degrading. Top it off that you get to reroll all wounds with arch contaminator, the spitters are amazing. You have to run multiple to get the use out of it, and they can do well as anti tank if you bring a poxbringer) makes the flamer str 8 with a possibility of d2. Play a few games this way and it will quickly sell you on it.

Oh, and entropy cannons have a chance to roll 1 damage, with no reroll to wound. They are seriously unreliable.


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leopard wrote:
Chees, was thinking of a full ten man squad of them at some point, that pretty much confirms it as needed, will be eight to start with as thats what I'll have.. but more will join them, possibly more of the easy build once I've seen them.

PM get the plasma & fist leader as thats the model I've got but otherwise sounds like 2x blight launchers then keep the rest cheap?

big mob would be nice, and if we could split squads between multiple transports I would..

that said a Storm Eagle is very tempting as a model

Plasma gun on the champs not bad, ive heard of people running triple plasma gun squads; to me this is really expensive and leaves it that any reasonable focus fire will be killing plasma guns quickly. I hate power fists this edition, being 1d3 damage is stupid.... they should be at least a flat d2, or even d3 with thunderhammers having extra ap.

He problem is that with the spitters you won’t get to use them likely until turn 3 and if you are moving you are making your mortar less effective. With the 2D6 shots you will likely only hit 7 times and wound 6 (maybe less) and with a 3+ Enemy armor save only half will fail for a total of 3 wounds. Since you 9” away at this point you are likely going to get charged and not get to shoot the following turn.

In contrast the entropy cannons on average does 3 wounds every turn especially against tanks threatening you advancing units.

broxus wrote:
He problem is that with the spitters you won’t get to use them likely until turn 3 and if you are moving you are making your mortar less effective. With the 2D6 shots you will likely only hit 7 times and wound 6 (maybe less) and with a 3+ Enemy armor save only half will fail for a total of 3 wounds. Since you 9” away at this point you are likely going to get charged and not get to shoot the following turn.

In contrast the entropy cannons on average does 3 wounds every turn especially against tanks threatening you advancing units.

2 shots per tank, 1 hit at bs 4, against a tank you have a 50% if its t8.... unreliable.

You forward deploy the crawlers, and generally the opponent will move something toward you; even if i dont get to fire til t3, they do their job soaking up tons of firepower and being a charge deterrent. Seriously, in the 20+ games of using spitters i have never regretted it. I tried entropy cannons twice and regretted it each time. Lastly, the mortar is just icing on the cake; you dont take a pbc for the mortar. If you really want to hit with it pop the strat that allows you to shoot heavy weapona at bs, but i never have needed to.

I mean play how you want bud, the spitter pbc is amazing. If you want to see how they are played take a gander at my battle reps; i use them most games.

Take one of those Nurgle trees with your PBC's, and then you can fall back and shoot. Works good for Blight Haulers too.

 Zid wrote:

broxus wrote:
He problem is that with the spitters you won’t get to use them likely until turn 3 and if you are moving you are making your mortar less effective. With the 2D6 shots you will likely only hit 7 times and wound 6 (maybe less) and with a 3+ Enemy armor save only half will fail for a total of 3 wounds. Since you 9” away at this point you are likely going to get charged and not get to shoot the following turn.

In contrast the entropy cannons on average does 3 wounds every turn especially against tanks threatening you advancing units.

2 shots per tank, 1 hit at bs 4, against a tank you have a 50% if its t8.... unreliable.

You forward deploy the crawlers, and generally the opponent will move something toward you; even if i dont get to fire til t3, they do their job soaking up tons of firepower and being a charge deterrent. Seriously, in the 20+ games of using spitters i have never regretted it. I tried entropy cannons twice and regretted it each time. Lastly, the mortar is just icing on the cake; you dont take a pbc for the mortar. If you really want to hit with it pop the strat that allows you to shoot heavy weapona at bs, but i never have needed to.

I mean play how you want bud, the spitter pbc is amazing. If you want to see how they are played take a gander at my battle reps; i use them most games.

What is your batrep link. I would like be to watch them.

Spitters are best hands down!!

Everyone fears mine in the local meta, play aggressive with them and give multiple targets to shoot, you will realise that people will either focus them or ignore them and either way they make there points back.

I always play the arch contaminator DP as warlord with bladesoP.

I often add a nurgling batt with poxbringers so my PBC and prince become str8. 2d6 auto hitting atts which Wound knights on 4+ with full reroll wounds is brutal.

They are also excellent for absorbing overwatch lol.

COLD CASH wrote:
Spitters are best hands down!!

Everyone fears mine in the local meta, play aggressive with them and give multiple targets to shoot, you will realise that people will either focus them or ignore them and either way they make there points back.

I always play the arch contaminator DP as warlord with bladesoP.

I often add a nurgling batt with poxbringers so my PBC and prince become str8. 2d6 auto hitting atts which Wound knights on 4+ with full reroll wounds is brutal.

They are also excellent for absorbing overwatch lol.

Bingo


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broxus wrote:

 Zid wrote:

broxus wrote:
He problem is that with the spitters you won’t get to use them likely until turn 3 and if you are moving you are making your mortar less effective. With the 2D6 shots you will likely only hit 7 times and wound 6 (maybe less) and with a 3+ Enemy armor save only half will fail for a total of 3 wounds. Since you 9” away at this point you are likely going to get charged and not get to shoot the following turn.

In contrast the entropy cannons on average does 3 wounds every turn especially against tanks threatening you advancing units.

2 shots per tank, 1 hit at bs 4, against a tank you have a 50% if its t8.... unreliable.

You forward deploy the crawlers, and generally the opponent will move something toward you; even if i dont get to fire til t3, they do their job soaking up tons of firepower and being a charge deterrent. Seriously, in the 20+ games of using spitters i have never regretted it. I tried entropy cannons twice and regretted it each time. Lastly, the mortar is just icing on the cake; you dont take a pbc for the mortar. If you really want to hit with it pop the strat that allows you to shoot heavy weapona at bs, but i never have needed to.

I mean play how you want bud, the spitter pbc is amazing. If you want to see how they are played take a gander at my battle reps; i use them most games.

What is your batrep link. I would like be to watch them.

Should be in my signature, or just check out the battle reports forum here

broxus wrote:
Why do people run plaguespitters on their PBCs? Entropy cannons provide far more DPS and start killing stuff turn one. Every game people use plaguespitters on their PBCs rarely to never get to use them and now they even cost more. ECs also give the much needed anti-tank capability death guard needs. Leave the plaguespitters for the drones who really maximize their usage with fhe fly keyword.

I have found PBC with spitters to be great when conventional anti-tank like lascannons or melta fails. There is nothing better to fry units with -1 or even -2 to hit like many eldar units or units with good invulnerable saves like Magnus, tzeench daemons, harlequin and the like. When not shooting flamers, just bonk the PBC into a unit you don't want to charge or shoot next turn and shut it down. The main difference between PBC and drones is that the PBC is better at wounding T6 and T7 and is a lot harder to kill.

Entropy cannons have always performed well for me, but the spitter PBC is a completely different unit.
An entropy cannon PBC is an artillery piece which takes its power from shooting cannons, mortar and slugger while standing still
Meanwhile, the spitter PBC's primary role is to shoot stuff with their spitters, block enemy movement and shut down enemy units with charges. Mortar and slugger are nice if they hit anything, but not the primary focus. It's basically a utility unit.

The weapon is probably one of the easiest options to magnetize in the game, I constantly switch between the two. Entropy cannons are great for fulfilling the anti-tank job unless facing armies with lots of -1 to hit, but if I have helbrutes, blighthaulers and/or Mortarion in my list, I usually run spitters.

 Jidmah wrote:

broxus wrote:
Why do people run plaguespitters on their PBCs? Entropy cannons provide far more DPS and start killing stuff turn one. Every game people use plaguespitters on their PBCs rarely to never get to use them and now they even cost more. ECs also give the much needed anti-tank capability death guard needs. Leave the plaguespitters for the drones who really maximize their usage with fhe fly keyword.

I have found PBC with spitters to be great when conventional anti-tank like lascannons or melta fails. There is nothing better to fry units with -1 or even -2 to hit like many eldar units or units with good invulnerable saves like Magnus, tzeench daemons, harlequin and the like. When not shooting flamers, just bonk the PBC into a unit you don't want to charge or shoot next turn and shut it down. The main difference between PBC and drones is that the PBC is better at wounding T6 and T7 and is a lot harder to kill.

Entropy cannons have always performed well for me, but the spitter PBC is a completely different unit.
An entropy cannon PBC is an artillery piece which takes its power from shooting cannons, mortar and slugger while standing still
Meanwhile, the spitter PBC's primary role is to shoot stuff with their spitters, block enemy movement and shut down enemy units with charges. Mortar and slugger are nice if they hit anything, but not the primary focus. It's basically a utility unit.

The weapon is probably one of the easiest options to magnetize in the game, I constantly switch between the two. Entropy cannons are great for fulfilling the anti-tank job unless facing armies with lots of -1 to hit, but if I have helbrutes, blighthaulers and/or Mortarion in my list, I usually run spitters.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

They are great anti-flier tech as Jidmah pointed out; especially those guys that love to stack - hit penalties.

Anybody use possessed? Tried them for fun, squad of 5, in a Rhino with 5 axe marines. Did manage to jam termies and a chapter master for couple turns and denied an objective. Did better than melee PMs for some reason.

Ran a list of Lord, term sorcerer, 3 units of Plague marines, 3 MBH, PBC with entropies, Rhino, 5 possessed. Opponent was Iron Hands, no primaris.

First game without any Deep Strike units, think I'm gonna go troop heavy now. Lost the game by some margin, was ahead by turn 3 till the cards betrayed. Killed a Land Raider in t2, exploded and wiped out two squads of space marines. Hae quite a laugh with that!

I've used them in my generic tzeench themed CSM army, three units of five, they are not amazing but they do soak fire while other stuff closes up.

wondering how well they would go with Nurgle as I have another 15 unbuilt and think they would look good in mint green & brass

They did their part quite well, forgot to mention poxwalkers in my list. Poxwalkers took objective in turn one, sat on it till opponent charged his terminators and round 3 when last poxwalker fell I threw in possessed which endured the next round. Someone said they're overprized but after ca they're a point cheaper than a plague marine w bubotic axe. Against Thunder hammer I guess 5+inv is better than disgustingly resilient?

I'm no competitive player and this was maybe my 10th game this Edition so i'm only guessing.

What's people's experiences with using melee plague marines. Now that plague marines are cheaper by 1 point, and the new Chapter approved missions do emphasize objectives.

I was thinking of running 3 plague marine melee squads. Each of them with all plague knives and a flail. Its relatively cheap, and with blades of puetrification cast on a squad, it can take out a space marine squad in one turn. Its relatively cheap and resilient too.

I will have other stuff do the shooting, because I think bolters just won't do much. I rather these 3 melee squads close in on objectives and get into melee around the objectives. Maybe support with a scourge defiler. What do you all think?

Not going to put them in Rhinos because I am more interested in just going for mid field objectives rather than hitting opponent's castle or battleline. And that way, I can save points on Rhinos to spend elsewhere.

I would consider melee plague marines only in a dedicated Blight Bombardment unit backed by purifier. Dual knives, maybe a few axes. I dont like the special melee weapons outside of Killteam. Too few base attacks.

If I ever get an extra plague marine box I might build them as melee.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I would consider melee plague marines only in a dedicated Blight Bombardment unit backed by purifier. Dual knives, maybe a few axes. I dont like the special melee weapons outside of Killteam. Too few base attacks.

If I ever get an extra plague marine box I might build them as melee.

Well, damage on the flail carries over, and its d3 attacks for each attack. So, it kinda offsets the lack of attacks. If you get in two attacks and both wound, that's 4 wounds which carry over from model to model. Opponent fails 4 saves and thats 4 marines dead potentially.

Actually, my other question would be, would just three melee plague marine squads be enough really. Allows for alot of points to do other stuff, but would just this three squads be able allow a list to be competitive for objective purposes. I don't mean capture all objectives, but at least be able to contest and maybe take mid field ones provided they have enough support from the rest of the list.

Are people preferring PBC to Bloat Drones as platforms for Plaguespitters?
It seems like the Drones can charge, absorb overwatch and then fall back and still shoot. But the PBC are overall more durable but can't fly.

 dan2026 wrote:
Are people preferring PBC to Bloat Drones as platforms for Plaguespitters?
It seems like the Drones can charge, absorb overwatch and then fall back and still shoot. But the PBC are overall more durable but can't fly.

Why not both?

Drones are awesome at harassing fliers and getting into the back field to take care of pesky objective holders. FLY is worth its weight in gold this edition. PBC are arguably the tankiest per point model in the game. Spitters and then block paths to force the opponent to deal with them. Make them charge you if they are assault, or charge them if not. PBC are great at disturbing castle and gunline armies.

 dan2026 wrote:
Are people preferring PBC to Bloat Drones as platforms for Plaguespitters?
It seems like the Drones can charge, absorb overwatch and then fall back and still shoot. But the PBC are overall more durable but can't fly.

PBC also is S7 while the drone is S6, making the PBC a lot better against vehicles. Drones usually do character assassination, clearing buildings/objectives or act as retinue for a daemon prince.

Missing FLY also rarely seems to matter to a spitter PBC since few things want to charge against its overwatch in the first place, and things that do either struggle to hurt it at all or cost a lot more than the PBC did. You still have the option to break it out by charging into that combat as well.

Running both is a very valid option, you opponent will not be able to kill all of them.

 Jidmah wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Are people preferring PBC to Bloat Drones as platforms for Plaguespitters?
It seems like the Drones can charge, absorb overwatch and then fall back and still shoot. But the PBC are overall more durable but can't fly.

PBC also is S7 while the drone is S6, making the PBC a lot better against vehicles. Drones usually do character assassination, clearing buildings/objectives or act as retinue for a daemon prince.

Missing FLY also rarely seems to matter to a spitter PBC since few things want to charge against its overwatch in the first place, and things that do either struggle to hurt it at all or cost a lot more than the PBC did. You still have the option to break it out by charging into that combat as well.

Running both is a very valid option, you opponent will not be able to kill all of them.

Fly is over rated after the nerfs to it, its still good, but not great like it once was.

My hang up with drones, personally, is that they cost 18 points more than a PBC. But the PBC is far and away more durable...

You can definitely run both, and drones arent bad by any means. I just can never justify drones over pbcs, and other platforms (helverins, contemptors) are most cost efficient

 Zid wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Are people preferring PBC to Bloat Drones as platforms for Plaguespitters?
It seems like the Drones can charge, absorb overwatch and then fall back and still shoot. But the PBC are overall more durable but can't fly.

PBC also is S7 while the drone is S6, making the PBC a lot better against vehicles. Drones usually do character assassination, clearing buildings/objectives or act as retinue for a daemon prince.

Missing FLY also rarely seems to matter to a spitter PBC since few things want to charge against its overwatch in the first place, and things that do either struggle to hurt it at all or cost a lot more than the PBC did. You still have the option to break it out by charging into that combat as well.

Running both is a very valid option, you opponent will not be able to kill all of them.

Fly is over rated after the nerfs to it, its still good, but not great like it once was.

My hang up with drones, personally, is that they cost 18 points more than a PBC. But the PBC is far and away more durable...

You can definitely run both, and drones arent bad by any means. I just can never justify drones over pbcs, and other platforms (helverins, contemptors) are most cost efficient

In this case FLY isn't overrated at all and I don't think the Faq changes affected how the FBD works at all.
The fly change stopped DPs, Smash Captains and other deadly close combat death machines from making charges through terrain or even screens, then consolidating through models. FBDs aren't used for that.

The FBD fills a great role that FLY is needed for. It can, no matter the deployment or terrain, advance to the center of the board turn 1. It can still fire the spitters. Next turn it can move, fire and assault. Next turn it can fall forward and still shoot. It can't be tied down in combat.
I think it's priced right (or even low!) But it just means the PBC is criminally under costed. The PBC should cost about 20 pts more than the drones.
But then again, thats not what this thread is about.

I built a melee PM squad with all axes and maces and hadn’t thought about Blades. With VotLW, that’s mortal wounds on a 5+. Not Berzerkers deadly, but still very tasty, whilst also being able to take a beating.

Hmm. Also potentially able to pull a nasty surprise with a grenade bombardment. I like it.

With the emergence of orks into the meta, I'm expecting to see a lot more ork/horde players, is it time to revisit poxwalker shenanigans?

I've been toying with the idea of leaving 70ish points aside in my lists for poxes to grow but also to summon 10 plaguebearers depending on the game flow. With chapter approved new missions putting added focus on troops.

Can the poxwalker list be viable again?

poxwalkers aren't the answer to orks, a 40 men ork mob can wipe out a 20 men pox mob, if curse of the walking dead would work like before would be completely different, then yes they try to kill 20 pox just to see 20 more popping out then more when you kill the orks but now you cant bring pox over 20 and you need pay points. Anyway if you want stay stick to pure DG i guess you dont have many choices, but i would play at least 80 with thypus,

For me so far the only tactic providing competitive results with death guard involves high T lists flamers and demon troops. Rest just don't work extremely well (not bad either) in loost I try for turnaments . Marines pox etc are not making it when you can have a good ppxbringer plaguebearers combo. You can't have it all . And ATM death guard has it's points calculated to the last point . You try poxalker combo then typhus bla bla . Want Marine grenades etc then ttransorts etc . The point you need to invest wont provide results. And ATM I'm not sure anymore even if you over invest if you would even see results does not mean I get two three transports with 30 melee Marines and grenades I will actually do something serious. So many points just create a tax all around you somewhat gimp your list. And it's obvious when from the start of the edition and a 20 page rule set and index now we got 50 pages changes . It's just breaking up armies combos playstyle. It becoming annoying to buff every 3 months a different unit to sell . List becoming trash every 3 months.

 Brymm wrote:

 Zid wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Are people preferring PBC to Bloat Drones as platforms for Plaguespitters?
It seems like the Drones can charge, absorb overwatch and then fall back and still shoot. But the PBC are overall more durable but can't fly.

PBC also is S7 while the drone is S6, making the PBC a lot better against vehicles. Drones usually do character assassination, clearing buildings/objectives or act as retinue for a daemon prince.

Missing FLY also rarely seems to matter to a spitter PBC since few things want to charge against its overwatch in the first place, and things that do either struggle to hurt it at all or cost a lot more than the PBC did. You still have the option to break it out by charging into that combat as well.

Running both is a very valid option, you opponent will not be able to kill all of them.

Fly is over rated after the nerfs to it, its still good, but not great like it once was.

My hang up with drones, personally, is that they cost 18 points more than a PBC. But the PBC is far and away more durable...

You can definitely run both, and drones arent bad by any means. I just can never justify drones over pbcs, and other platforms (helverins, contemptors) are most cost efficient

In this case FLY isn't overrated at all and I don't think the Faq changes affected how the FBD works at all.
The fly change stopped DPs, Smash Captains and other deadly close combat death machines from making charges through terrain or even screens, then consolidating through models. FBDs aren't used for that.

The FBD fills a great role that FLY is needed for. It can, no matter the deployment or terrain, advance to the center of the board turn 1. It can still fire the spitters. Next turn it can move, fire and assault. Next turn it can fall forward and still shoot. It can't be tied down in combat.
I think it's priced right (or even low!) But it just means the PBC is criminally under costed. The PBC should cost about 20 pts more than the drones.
But then again, thats not what this thread is about.

Eh... I can see your point; FBD's are good character assassins. But at Str 6 (degrading), not to mention T7 with 10 wounds, I would even pay for a PBC over it if it cost more personally in most lists.

Reason being, Characters aren't the "glue" in many lists like they once were. I could see a case being made for them in certain makeups, your post actually made me think of a 3x Contemptor, 2x FBD, 2x helverin, 1x Renegade Knight list I might want to try out... mostly because the Drones would fill a role to get to the juicy bits while everything else can take care of the larger threats/infantry.

Actually you may have changed my thoughts on these guys... I've had 3 sitting in a box forever. Thanks Brymm


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yoda79 wrote:
For me so far the only tactic providing competitive results with death guard involves high T lists flamers and demon troops. Rest just don't work extremely well (not bad either) in loost I try for turnaments . Marines pox etc are not making it when you can have a good ppxbringer plaguebearers combo. You can't have it all . And ATM death guard has it's points calculated to the last point . You try poxalker combo then typhus bla bla . Want Marine grenades etc then ttransorts etc . The point you need to invest wont provide results. And ATM I'm not sure anymore even if you over invest if you would even see results does not mean I get two three transports with 30 melee Marines and grenades I will actually do something serious. So many points just create a tax all around you somewhat gimp your list. And it's obvious when from the start of the edition and a 20 page rule set and index now we got 50 pages changes . It's just breaking up armies combos playstyle. It becoming annoying to buff every 3 months a different unit to sell . List becoming trash every 3 months.

Poxwalkers can still work, I used them pretty well and took second in an event using them (you can see the link below) when Castellans + Loyal 32 + infinite CP was still a thing. Thing is its only 425 points for Typhus + 40 poxwalkers, your talking 330 for 30x Plagues + Scrivener. It also depends on your tactics, and what your detachment makeup is; Poxwalkers are fearless and make better objective holders (arguably) than Plaguebearers. Yes, plagues last longer, but T5 Poxwalkers are hard to move, and they regenerate if you can get them into contact with the enemy. You might see a slight resurgence if the new CA missions take a hold, because holding objectives longer will be more important.

I will say, I would honestly pay the 10 extra points for minimum Poxwalkers over minimum Cultists now.

How are people feeling about Myphitic Blight Haulers now they have dropped a ton of points?

Model is cute as hell.

 dan2026 wrote:
How are people feeling about Myphitic Blight Haulers now they have dropped a ton of points?

Model is cute as hell.

I plan on using them instead of my usual Plague Drones of Nurgle (which just went up in pts) as a Daemon Prince escort unit, since they're similar in points, and a lot easier for me to transport to games! 3 min drones vs the MBH. Four less wounds, but an armor save and better toughness with Plague Weapons and AT. They should work well with Arch Contaminator, or any Nurgle Daemon buff characters.

Gotta get 3 of em!

I also like to take Plague Marines in transports, so the MBH can help cover them when they disembark or their ride explodes.

I personally think Plague marines are resilient enough you can slog them up the field without Rhinos. Just my 2 cents. Doesnt take very long for them to get into 18 inch rapid fire range. So, they don't really need a Rhino.

I feel that plague bearers are better and have more hero support than pox walkers. When you combine 90 plague bearers with all plague god heroes. They are extremely powerful. So, if you want that kind of mass undead horde, then going plague bearers is better than going pox walkers.

The more playtesting and theorycrafting I do, the more I feel that Death Guard are now fairly strong post Chapter Approved. Poxwalkers could still be better but you can make a list with or without them, if you support them enough. I think there are a lot of good small combos and points-effective units. For LVO I might do mostly Death Guard with maybe a little bit of Nurgle Daemons rather than doing mostly Nurgle Daemons, Khorne Daemons, or Thousand Sons.

I especially think you can make Death Guard good versus Orks and Knights, which are two of the strongest options at events now.

As an ork player I found it nigh impossible to stop Mortarion, so maybe that's an idea?

 Jidmah wrote:
As an ork player I found it nigh impossible to stop Mortarion, so maybe that's an idea?

Lootastar didnt work?

On average, Mortarion survives a full round of loota star shooting (~120 shots) and the one DG player besides me in our group usually fields him with six Deathshrouds who will not survive the shooting but very well tank most of it. By turn three, the loota star has bloat drones stuck to it, shutting it down.
Even if not, that's 500+ points and 13-16CP spent on killing Mortarion and six terminators that have almost the same movement speed as fortifications.

Plaguebearers are good, I just cant invest in taking another horde army approach! Inhave over 200 ork infantry, 60 cultists, and about 90 pox walkers and converted zombies. That is why I'm hoping we see some fun stuff in Vigilus pt 2.

The story about the cargo containers dropped onto the planet surface, filled with thousands of pox walkers each is giving me ideas. Tide of zombies stratagem or something please!

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I personally think Plague marines are resilient enough you can slog them up the field without Rhinos. Just my 2 cents. Doesnt take very long for them to get into 18 inch rapid fire range. So, they don't really need a Rhino.

I feel that plague bearers are better and have more hero support than pox walkers. When you combine 90 plague bearers with all plague god heroes. They are extremely powerful. So, if you want that kind of mass undead horde, then going plague bearers is better than going pox walkers.

agree, there are lists out there that can remove 90 plaguebearers in about 4 turns, you can imagine how long to take out 40 poxwalkers, -1 to hit double save, move average 9" roll two dice for morale with chance to get back d6 models, can save at 4++... poxwalkers are still good but beside morale immunity they aren't same level as pb's,


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Plaguebearers are good, I just cant invest in taking another horde army approach! Inhave over 200 ork infantry, 60 cultists, and about 90 pox walkers and converted zombies. That is why I'm hoping we see some fun stuff in Vigilus pt 2.

The story about the cargo containers dropped onto the planet surface, filled with thousands of pox walkers each is giving me ideas. Tide of zombies stratagem or something please!

8th edition is the horde edition so forget that armies like demons or competitive DG/chaos will play less models

 Jidmah wrote:
On average, Mortarion survives a full round of loota star shooting (~120 shots) and the one DG player besides me in our group usually fields him with six Deathshrouds who will not survive the shooting but very well tank most of it. By turn three, the loota star has bloat drones stuck to it, shutting it down.
Even if not, that's 500+ points and 13-16CP spent on killing Mortarion and six terminators that have almost the same movement speed as fortifications.

Didnt account for deathshroud, even so though thats niche at best. But i can see that mucking up the star. How you averaging 120 shots if they mob up and shoot again w dakks.strat?

Assuming you reroll 1 on number of shots, you get an average of 2,33 shots per loota. 25 x 2,33 x 2 = 116,5. I guess that's where the 120 comes from.

I played a mech Astra Militarum and Blood Angels list this weekend. I took 3x PBCs w/ Entropy Cannons, 3x MBHs, a Daemon Prince (arch contaminator and Fulgis’ helm), and a Nurgle CSM sorcerer w/ Prescience (+1 to hit). Needless to say I shredded his armor killing 3-4 vehicles a turn. MBHs hitting on 2s and rerolling 1s are super nasty!

I also had 4 units of plague marines with 8x blight launchers in the aura of the DP.

hortsmann wrote:
Assuming you reroll 1 on number of shots, you get an average of 2,33 shots per loota. 25 x 2,33 x 2 = 116,5. I guess that's where the 120 comes from.

Seems.... low.

But still, morty by himself im sure would get shredded. Even with deathshroud, good placement of your gretchin wall/boyz should give the lootas two turns to blow up morty unless they have warp time. Even then, though, you should be able to get a warpathed unit of boyz into him and he should go down.

If someones taking two units of deathshroud to protect him then they are essentially paying over 700+ points for morty

@hortsmann: A loota will never shoot 2.33 times, but 2 or 3 times. The most common result is getting four shots out of a loota over two turns, even with CP.
I didn't math out anything though, I just took the value from experience. Actual math looks like this:
25 lootas shooting generate 100 shots, plus another 33.33 from Moar Dakka. They hit 44.44 times, plus another 22.22 ones get re-rolled into 7.41 hits, generate 7.41 additional attacks who become 2.47 more hits and 0.41 hits from re-rolling ones on those.
Total hits: 52.26
26.13 of those wound Mortarion, 13.07 are not saved and deal 17.42 damage to him after DR.

@Zid: The thing is, you also pay that many points for the lootas, plus the gretchin shields to keep them alive.

On top of that, you need to spend 1 CP for mob up, and 2+2CP for the Moar Dakka/Shoot again combo plus maybe a CP to re-roll number of shots, and then another for grot shield. Mortarion will not survive the ordeal, but it is by no means efficient shoot him with lootas. With the deathshrouds attached to need to burn through almost all the CP your three battalions gave you to take them and Mortarion down. Orks do very little without CP.

So in essence, yes I can kill Mortarion with the loota star, it will just lose me the game to do so. It's much more efficient to use the lootas to wipe out drones, helbrutes and plague marines or other things that can actually do anything about the loota star.

Ignoring Mortarion, denying multi-charges and just accepting that he will destroy one unit per turn has so far been the best course of action against pure death guard. Unless he gets his hands on multiple boyz mobs, he will struggle to make his points back. Mind you, I'm usually playing maelstrom missions, YMMV if you are playing tournament mission packs.

 Jidmah wrote:
@hortsmann: A loota will never shoot 2.33 times, but 2 or 3 times. The most common result is getting four shots out of a loota over two turns, even with CP.
I didn't math out anything though, I just took the value from experience. Actual math looks like this:
25 lootas shooting generate 100 shots, plus another 33.33 from Moar Dakka. They hit 44.44 times, plus another 22.22 ones get re-rolled into 7.41 hits, generate 7.41 additional attacks who become 2.47 more hits and 0.41 hits from re-rolling ones on those.
Total hits: 52.26
26.13 of those wound Mortarion, 13.07 are not saved and deal 17.42 damage to him after DR.

@Zid: The thing is, you also pay that many points for the lootas, plus the gretchin shields to keep them alive.

On top of that, you need to spend 1 CP for mob up, and 2+2CP for the Moar Dakka/Shoot again combo plus maybe a CP to re-roll number of shots, and then another for grot shield. Mortarion will not survive the ordeal, but it is by no means efficient shoot him with lootas. With the deathshrouds attached to need to burn through almost all the CP your three battalions gave you to take them and Mortarion down. Orks do very little without CP.

So in essence, yes I can kill Mortarion with the loota star, it will just lose me the game to do so. It's much more efficient to use the lootas to wipe out drones, helbrutes and plague marines or other things that can actually do anything about the loota star.

Ignoring Mortarion, denying multi-charges and just accepting that he will destroy one unit per turn has so far been the best course of action against pure death guard. Unless he gets his hands on multiple boyz mobs, he will struggle to make his points back. Mind you, I'm usually playing maelstrom missions, YMMV if you are playing tournament mission packs.

I think thats the clutch here is tourney packets, meaning tourney level armies (yall are both fielding optimized lists hopefully).

Mathematically, you will tier morty low enough that hes much easier to handle later in the game. But yes, the star takes a LOT of cp to run, but a typical ork list i face has 18 cp. As well, a mortarian list in a tournament setting has a pretty low chance of appearing; mostly because he has a very hard time against typical staples like the castellan. He does show in Smash Bros lists, but requires a lot of luck.

I dont know man, i really feel like orks can give morty the business; maybe not death guard as a whole, but definitely morty. Of course, as with anything in this game, sometimes it takes luck

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Plaguebearers are good, I just cant invest in taking another horde army approach! Inhave over 200 ork infantry, 60 cultists, and about 90 pox walkers and converted zombies. That is why I'm hoping we see some fun stuff in Vigilus pt 2.

The story about the cargo containers dropped onto the planet surface, filled with thousands of pox walkers each is giving me ideas. Tide of zombies stratagem or something please!

Since you can accept zombie models as poxwalkers, could you also use them as plaguebringers?

 tokugawa wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Plaguebearers are good, I just cant invest in taking another horde army approach! Inhave over 200 ork infantry, 60 cultists, and about 90 pox walkers and converted zombies. That is why I'm hoping we see some fun stuff in Vigilus pt 2.

The story about the cargo containers dropped onto the planet surface, filled with thousands of pox walkers each is giving me ideas. Tide of zombies stratagem or something please!

Since you can accept zombie models as poxwalkers, could you also use them as plaguebringers?

What, the power sword relic?

Probably means plaguebearers.

 tokugawa wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Plaguebearers are good, I just cant invest in taking another horde army approach! Inhave over 200 ork infantry, 60 cultists, and about 90 pox walkers and converted zombies. That is why I'm hoping we see some fun stuff in Vigilus pt 2.

The story about the cargo containers dropped onto the planet surface, filled with thousands of pox walkers each is giving me ideas. Tide of zombies stratagem or something please!

Since you can accept zombie models as poxwalkers, could you also use them as plaguebringers?

Zombies and Poxwalkers are definitely smaller than Plaguebearers (not to mention the base size is 25mm versus 32mm).

I too hope that Poxwalkers get a visit from the Vigilus fairy; I loved running them when they were good, they were dynamic and had a lot of character. I saw why they got nerfed, but I feel like they got nerfed too much; really they should have seen a 1ppm price drop I feel. Max squad size is 20, you can't go above starting without spending points, their strat is useless now with the cultist bump + needing reserve points, and they are SLOWWWWWW. 5 ppm feels about right for what they are; fearless horde of bodies that MIGHT see combat by turn 3. Especially when you consider the Typhus and Blightbringer taxes.

I would just love if poxwalkers worked post need but they don't at 6ppm. With cultists inexplicably increased in price I'm looking at a block of Plaguebearers as my chaff now. 7 ppm means I can get 30 with full command and a poxbringer (which I want anyway for my spitter PBCs) for around 300pts.

Far more solid than either cultists or poxwalkers and they can actually hurt things unlike them.

Pox have been relegated now in most of my lists to one 10 man squad circling my heavy support, which hopefully is sitting on an objective in my territory.

D’oh, Plaguebearers, of course. Blonde moment

Sure, Toku, zombie PBs are workable. I’d use ones that have got weapons and really goo the blades up, look like they’re excreting pus as opposed to covered in it. Try to get a really Nurgley banner done as well. That should make sure they’re close enough to WYSIWYG that your opponents don’t forget what they are.

I saw a CSM army, years back, that used infected Cadians as PBs. Nowadays, Poxwalkers would be a more WYSIWYG ruleset for that project, but it made for a really cool visually themed army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 buddha wrote:
I would just love if poxwalkers worked post need but they don't at 6ppm. With cultists inexplicably increased in price I'm looking at a block of Plaguebearers as my chaff now. 7 ppm means I can get 30 with full command and a poxbringer (which I want anyway for my spitter PBCs) for around 300pts.

Far more solid than either cultists or poxwalkers and they can actually hurt things unlike them.

Same - I play fluff first main with Word Bearers, for Warp’s sake, and even I’m looking at Cultist screens and thinking ‘nah, much better to bring Nurgle daemons’. Even in a Slaanesh list. That’s not right :(

Of course, this does make my DG auxiliaries step farther into the limelight. My Slaanesh tricks mostly entail Heralds enabling Daemon Enginges to advance and charge... this is fairly transferable to DG, via a tree. Defiler and Hauler discounts... I think my main list will be WBs bringing Warptime and Maulerfiends and Oblits, Daemons bringing chaff and Epidemius, and DG bringing drones & DP.

look like we will have a special detachment from urban conquest book?


"Dontoria has been beset by enemies from without and sickness from within. Through plague spread by an infiltrating detachment of Death Guard, and a Gellerpox Infection believed to have originated from the Litmus Dock, the hivesprawl’s population has been cruelly decimated in spite of the extensive quarantine measures hastily put in place. The hivesprawl is all but ready to fall…"

source : https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/08/urban-conquest-the-hivesprawls-of-vigilusgw-homepage-post-1/

Ive been finding that my PBC's when I play the aggressively with Spitters often get consolidated into and even worse they get wrapped. Do you guys find bubble wrapping them to be worthwhile because I always end up with my screens rushing off to hold/contest objectives.

For those of you running nurgle daemons do you keep your poxbringer close to PBC's to get the locus of nurgle strength buff for the spitters?

 Nithaniel wrote:
Ive been finding that my PBC's when I play the aggressively with Spitters often get consolidated into and even worse they get wrapped. Do you guys find bubble wrapping them to be worthwhile because I always end up with my screens rushing off to hold/contest objectives.

For those of you running nurgle daemons do you keep your poxbringer close to PBC's to get the locus of nurgle strength buff for the spitters?

Earlier in the thread there was a lot of discussion about FBDs instead or with PBCs. I think this is the main argument for bloat drones over PBCs: FLY gets you out of jams like this AND you don't lose that turn of shooting.
Again, the PBCs are still criminally under costed but in this particular example, the FBD provides what you need while solving the ONLY weakness a PBC has: getting tied up in CC and surrounded.

Urgent question. 2000pts Match vs Astra militarum next sunday, most likely minimum cp farm and 1700ish points of tanks.
Not much to deal with them, I've got full squad of Blight lords with meltas, 3 MBH, PBC with entropies, Helbrute w. Multimelta. The rest is pretty much plague marines, poxwalkers and cultists. And 6 Death shrouds. Couple sorcerers, term sorcerer, couple cheap lords, Lord of contagion, typhus.

Losing doesn't bother, I just want to make him work for victory. Any bright ideas how to make it difficult?

Blight lords in two squads or one full? Death shrouds, how many and one or two squads? And should I hide meltaguns in big blobs of Plague marines or make minimum squads?

My 2 cents, spitters on FBD. EC on PBC. As someone who doesn't like to run FW or soup, PBC are our best fluffy source of heavy support.

 Nithaniel wrote:
Ive been finding that my PBC's when I play the aggressively with Spitters often get consolidated into and even worse they get wrapped. Do you guys find bubble wrapping them to be worthwhile because I always end up with my screens rushing off to hold/contest objectives.

For those of you running nurgle daemons do you keep your poxbringer close to PBC's to get the locus of nurgle strength buff for the spitters?

Honestly, you just need to position them properly to where opponents may get to one tops. Even so, i WANT people to charge one. Most people charge within the 9" range.

If i run a poxbringer, yes, he stays near the tanka for the +1 strength and to use fleshy abundance to heal them. I just posted a battle rep using this strategy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ferryman wrote:
Urgent question. 2000pts Match vs Astra militarum next sunday, most likely minimum cp farm and 1700ish points of tanks.
Not much to deal with them, I've got full squad of Blight lords with meltas, 3 MBH, PBC with entropies, Helbrute w. Multimelta. The rest is pretty much plague marines, poxwalkers and cultists. And 6 Death shrouds. Couple sorcerers, term sorcerer, couple cheap lords, Lord of contagion, typhus.

Losing doesn't bother, I just want to make him work for victory. Any bright ideas how to make it difficult?

Blight lords in two squads or one full? Death shrouds, how many and one or two squads? And should I hide meltaguns in big blobs of Plague marines or make minimum squads?

Have access to demon princes? I would run the blightlords, mbhs, and some sorcerers, but you are gonna have a hard time. Maybe run the plagues in a blob of 20, use the cover from the mbh and miasma, then try and get off the grenade bomb on stuff (if you have a putrifier). Use poxes in min squads for objective duty because of fearless, cultists love to run in min sized squads

Ferryman wrote:
Urgent question. 2000pts Match vs Astra militarum next sunday, most likely minimum cp farm and 1700ish points of tanks.
Not much to deal with them, I've got full squad of Blight lords with meltas, 3 MBH, PBC with entropies, Helbrute w. Multimelta. The rest is pretty much plague marines, poxwalkers and cultists. And 6 Death shrouds. Couple sorcerers, term sorcerer, couple cheap lords, Lord of contagion, typhus.

Losing doesn't bother, I just want to make him work for victory. Any bright ideas how to make it difficult?

Blight lords in two squads or one full? Death shrouds, how many and one or two squads? And should I hide meltaguns in big blobs of Plague marines or make minimum squads?

Hard to give great advice without knowing the ruleset. En Blanche, hordes kind of trump tanks so if you just swarm him with a ton of poxwalkers and sit on objectives, even if you get tabled turn 6 (unlikely) you will still win with the CA rules. Just get them into melee. Probably leave the Deathshrouds at home, blightlords one unit is classical preferred as you can VOTLW more models as well as use psychic abilities to more effect.

As a side note, what have people found the best support for Blightlords besides knights, are there alternatives competitively? How necessary are all 3 DG spells, Miasma and Prutescent (+1W) seem key but for 1 CP the spell can be swapped situationally when bringing a single DG Daemon Prince

Thanks so far, I'll try to make it Dominate and destroy kind of battle to make it simple.

Think I'm gonna put full squad of melee marines in a Rhino, blob of 20 shooty marines with either 3 plasmaguns or 2 melta and Plasma and two sets of poxwalkers to sit on objectives. Fist and a cleaver hidden in melee squad. Never really did anything with the plague cleaver though but sounds fluffy.

I do have a putrifier, would it be more useful in Rhino with melee marines or marching behind dakka marines? Hardly ever used the putrifier.

Also would it make any sense to bring my two quad rapier heavy bolters into this battle?

 Zid wrote:

 Nithaniel wrote:
Ive been finding that my PBC's when I play the aggressively with Spitters often get consolidated into and even worse they get wrapped. Do you guys find bubble wrapping them to be worthwhile because I always end up with my screens rushing off to hold/contest objectives.

For those of you running nurgle daemons do you keep your poxbringer close to PBC's to get the locus of nurgle strength buff for the spitters?

Honestly, you just need to position them properly to where opponents may get to one tops. Even so, i WANT people to charge one. Most people charge within the 9" range.

If i run a poxbringer, yes, he stays near the tanka for the +1 strength and to use fleshy abundance to heal them. I just posted a battle rep using this strategy.

Thanks Zid. I really enjoyed your Bat reps. Thanks, please keep them up. Read your P&M blog as well and all I can say is WOW. Your greenstuff skills are hobby shaming me!

I've not really been to many tournaments and I've always played my DG at 1500 pts but I'm planning to be more tournament focused this year and stepping up to 2k. Is running 2k of DG feasible? I love my PM spam lists but they're just not strong enough. I've just started collecting Nurgle Daemons and I've got 2 pox bringers a GUO 9 nurglings and about 40 plaguebearers. Need more plaguebearers is the general consensus. I know this is the DG thread but I'm seeing more and more lists running a thousand sons supreme command. Is this the way to go to be more competitively viable?

 Nithaniel wrote:

 Zid wrote:

 Nithaniel wrote:
Ive been finding that my PBC's when I play the aggressively with Spitters often get consolidated into and even worse they get wrapped. Do you guys find bubble wrapping them to be worthwhile because I always end up with my screens rushing off to hold/contest objectives.

For those of you running nurgle daemons do you keep your poxbringer close to PBC's to get the locus of nurgle strength buff for the spitters?

Honestly, you just need to position them properly to where opponents may get to one tops. Even so, i WANT people to charge one. Most people charge within the 9" range.

If i run a poxbringer, yes, he stays near the tanka for the +1 strength and to use fleshy abundance to heal them. I just posted a battle rep using this strategy.

Thanks Zid. I really enjoyed your Bat reps. Thanks, please keep them up. Read your P&M blog as well and all I can say is WOW. Your greenstuff skills are hobby shaming me!

I've not really been to many tournaments and I've always played my DG at 1500 pts but I'm planning to be more tournament focused this year and stepping up to 2k. Is running 2k of DG feasible? I love my PM spam lists but they're just not strong enough. I've just started collecting Nurgle Daemons and I've got 2 pox bringers a GUO 9 nurglings and about 40 plaguebearers. Need more plaguebearers is the general consensus. I know this is the DG thread but I'm seeing more and more lists running a thousand sons supreme command. Is this the way to go to be more competitively viable?

Really theres a dozen different ways you can go, theres no one "right" way. I like the 1k sons supreme command with princes or terminator sorcerers, plaguebearers are great, as are poxbringers. Sadly plague marines are still a bit too expensive for what they do, and MSU (multiple small unit) plagues with blightlaunchers die too quickly. You can do the 20 melee plague marines + blighthauler + purifier for the grenade spam, but an opponent generally will only fall for that trick once.

"Mono" dg without forgeworld doesnt do too well in formats like ITC. Its doable though, as i pointed out earlier Don Hooson is piloting a mono dg list at lvo with three chaos jets, three deredeo dreads, and three pbcs and he said hes been smashing folks in his test games.

Oh and thanks for the kind words buddy, i battle rep because it is fun and i always hope it helps others!

 Zid wrote:

 Nithaniel wrote:

 Zid wrote:

 Nithaniel wrote:
Ive been finding that my PBC's when I play the aggressively with Spitters often get consolidated into and even worse they get wrapped. Do you guys find bubble wrapping them to be worthwhile because I always end up with my screens rushing off to hold/contest objectives.

For those of you running nurgle daemons do you keep your poxbringer close to PBC's to get the locus of nurgle strength buff for the spitters?

Honestly, you just need to position them properly to where opponents may get to one tops. Even so, i WANT people to charge one. Most people charge within the 9" range.

If i run a poxbringer, yes, he stays near the tanka for the +1 strength and to use fleshy abundance to heal them. I just posted a battle rep using this strategy.

Thanks Zid. I really enjoyed your Bat reps. Thanks, please keep them up. Read your P&M blog as well and all I can say is WOW. Your greenstuff skills are hobby shaming me!

I've not really been to many tournaments and I've always played my DG at 1500 pts but I'm planning to be more tournament focused this year and stepping up to 2k. Is running 2k of DG feasible? I love my PM spam lists but they're just not strong enough. I've just started collecting Nurgle Daemons and I've got 2 pox bringers a GUO 9 nurglings and about 40 plaguebearers. Need more plaguebearers is the general consensus. I know this is the DG thread but I'm seeing more and more lists running a thousand sons supreme command. Is this the way to go to be more competitively viable?

Really theres a dozen different ways you can go, theres no one "right" way. I like the 1k sons supreme command with princes or terminator sorcerers, plaguebearers are great, as are poxbringers. Sadly plague marines are still a bit too expensive for what they do, and MSU (multiple small unit) plagues with blightlaunchers die too quickly. You can do the 20 melee plague marines + blighthauler + purifier for the grenade spam, but an opponent generally will only fall for that trick once.

"Mono" dg without forgeworld doesnt do too well in formats like ITC. Its doable though, as i pointed out earlier Don Hooson is piloting a mono dg list at lvo with three chaos jets, three deredeo dreads, and three pbcs and he said hes been smashing folks in his test games.

Oh and thanks for the kind words buddy, i battle rep because it is fun and i always hope it helps others!

What is a chaos jet?

orkswubwub wrote:

 Zid wrote:

 Nithaniel wrote:

 Zid wrote:

 Nithaniel wrote:
Ive been finding that my PBC's when I play the aggressively with Spitters often get consolidated into and even worse they get wrapped. Do you guys find bubble wrapping them to be worthwhile because I always end up with my screens rushing off to hold/contest objectives.

For those of you running nurgle daemons do you keep your poxbringer close to PBC's to get the locus of nurgle strength buff for the spitters?

Honestly, you just need to position them properly to where opponents may get to one tops. Even so, i WANT people to charge one. Most people charge within the 9" range.

If i run a poxbringer, yes, he stays near the tanka for the +1 strength and to use fleshy abundance to heal them. I just posted a battle rep using this strategy.

Thanks Zid. I really enjoyed your Bat reps. Thanks, please keep them up. Read your P&M blog as well and all I can say is WOW. Your greenstuff skills are hobby shaming me!

I've not really been to many tournaments and I've always played my DG at 1500 pts but I'm planning to be more tournament focused this year and stepping up to 2k. Is running 2k of DG feasible? I love my PM spam lists but they're just not strong enough. I've just started collecting Nurgle Daemons and I've got 2 pox bringers a GUO 9 nurglings and about 40 plaguebearers. Need more plaguebearers is the general consensus. I know this is the DG thread but I'm seeing more and more lists running a thousand sons supreme command. Is this the way to go to be more competitively viable?

Really theres a dozen different ways you can go, theres no one "right" way. I like the 1k sons supreme command with princes or terminator sorcerers, plaguebearers are great, as are poxbringers. Sadly plague marines are still a bit too expensive for what they do, and MSU (multiple small unit) plagues with blightlaunchers die too quickly. You can do the 20 melee plague marines + blighthauler + purifier for the grenade spam, but an opponent generally will only fall for that trick once.

"Mono" dg without forgeworld doesnt do too well in formats like ITC. Its doable though, as i pointed out earlier Don Hooson is piloting a mono dg list at lvo with three chaos jets, three deredeo dreads, and three pbcs and he said hes been smashing folks in his test games.

Oh and thanks for the kind words buddy, i battle rep because it is fun and i always hope it helps others!

What is a chaos jet?

The Hellblade. It's good for move blocking and picking off support characters.

Managed to scrape a draw today vs Astra militarum.
Helbrute was useless, haulers and pbc did ok. Jammed pretty much everything in the middle and marched forward. Opponent had baneblade, shadowsword, four russes. Tough one but went surprisingly well.

My MBH did surprisingly well all game against Armiger knights, even after forgetting Trilobe +1 to hit on them. They are an aggressive moving unit that you dont mind getting locked up in cc. It's all the support units that DONT get Disgustingly Resilient that become liabilities. My Rhino exploded, chipping wounds off half my army turn 1. Looking to trade out my Land Raider and Helbrute for PBCs but time and money prevent me from doing so at the moment, and I feel naked without bringing a few Lascannons in the list.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
My MBH did surprisingly well all game against Armiger knights, even after forgetting Trilobe +1 to hit on them. They are an aggressive moving unit that you dont mind getting locked up in cc. It's all the support units that DONT get Disgustingly Resilient that become liabilities. My Rhino exploded, chipping wounds off half my army turn 1. Looking to trade out my Land Raider and Helbrute for PBCs but time and money prevent me from doing so at the moment, and I feel naked without bringing a few Lascannons in the list.

MBH are awesome. Fast, shooty, and beefy in CC. The -1 to hit in CC really helps as well. Since the points drop they've become a standard in most of my lists. Run them in front of a CL, sorcerer/MP (BoP can be funny on MBHs), and 5 man PM squad with 3 Plasmas. It's a chunky little ball of pain.

I've been testing a lot of different Death Guard units and a variety of allies for competitive play so I know what to run at LVO. Did pretty well at a local tournament this past weekend.

For anyone interested, I've got details of my tournament games and my recent test games in the recent posts on my Facebook blog (link in sig).

Anyone got any tips on using Plague Marines in semi comp play? I have games against casual players and don’t want to roll out my Nurgle soup against them. Would love to try Plague Marines, was thinking of going with 3 x 7 man squads each with a Blightspawn and supported by Fulgaris Lord, a Plaguecaster, and a Blightbringer to speed them up, all with double blight launchers; then one melee squad in a rhino with a Biologus and Tallyman. Rest of the army will be butcher cannon Contemptors. I’m not sure if I should give Blight Haulers a try or just go with Spitterdrones too.

Plague marine rhino rush works pretty dope in casual. Toss in some elite support characters and daemon engines to try to pull fire from the rhinos. T1, advance and pop smoke. T2, hop out and blast stuff!

Tallyman and biologis really shine, bring 3 foul blightspawn in a separate detachment to assist with taking out pesky targets. The "re-roll all wounds" warlord trait is also insanely awesome when you have plague marines everywhere. You'll want some good psychic support too. stacking buffs on marines can really do work. I'd toss a flail marine into each squad as well, those things can really do work!

An axe squad with +1 to wound and a tallyman is brutal, pop vets for +2 to wound and you'll slaughter just about anything.

I would bring 3 spitter drones, they pull more fire than MBH for me, and I like to jump over into enemy back lines and torch stuff. Great to mess with gunlines.

Malefic666 wrote:
Anyone got any tips on using Plague Marines in semi comp play? I have games against casual players and don’t want to roll out my Nurgle soup against them. Would love to try Plague Marines, was thinking of going with 3 x 7 man squads each with a Blightspawn and supported by Fulgaris Lord, a Plaguecaster, and a Blightbringer to speed them up, all with double blight launchers; then one melee squad in a rhino with a Biologus and Tallyman. Rest of the army will be butcher cannon Contemptors. I’m not sure if I should give Blight Haulers a try or just go with Spitterdrones too.

Not to toot my own horn, but I went 5-0 at a big event in Michigan pre CA using Plague Marines. The tourney report is over in the battle reports section and has the list.
Post CA the list went down in points, is pure DG and is fun to play.
My variant lists replace morty with a trilobe and more plague marines. Still works!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The TLDR version is that the PM squads are min/max foot sloggers with double blight launchers and plasma champions. They take and hold objectives while laying down special weapons fire to support whatever aggressive things you're also taking, like Drones, Crawlers, Morty and Daemon Princes. Getting them on objectives is how I use them. Haven't finished a game in which I'm like "man, these guys didn't work out," or "these guys didn't do anything," instead its almost always "Plague Marines are really good."

How does that list fare against craftworld/ynnari eldar?
I feel like my PM are dying in droves against shining spears and shuriken cannons, while rangers keep blowing up my support characters.

I still tend to closely win or draw those games, but I'd be glad for any advice.

 Jidmah wrote:
How does that list fare against craftworld/ynnari eldar?
I feel like my PM are dying in droves against shining spears and shuriken cannons, while rangers keep blowing up my support characters.

I still tend to closely win or draw those games, but I'd be glad for any advice.

I played a semi competitive 1500pt game against craftworld eldar last night and narrowly won the game as well. They were running 3 wave serpents, night spinner, and 2 fire prisms along with one bike unit, 3x10 man infantry squads (guardian avengers w/weapons platforms and one unit of dire avengers), a warlock, and a farseer on bike. I won by playing my spitter crawlers, bloat drones, foul blightspawn, and daemon prince super aggressively to control the center of the board while by plague marines and terminators held objectives. I think the game wouldn't have been as close if he hadn't rolled extremely well on his fire prism linked fire which reduced one of my crawlers to 3 wounds and his wave serpents dropped the other doomed crawler to 6 or 8 wounds on turn 1. (I rolled very poorly on my saves in both cases)

After this game I think I'm going to grab some deredeo dreads to give some ranged fire support and to better handle vehicle heavy lists. I can post my list and give more details later if anyone is interested.

 Jidmah wrote:
How does that list fare against craftworld/ynnari eldar?
I feel like my PM are dying in droves against shining spears and shuriken cannons, while rangers keep blowing up my support characters.

I still tend to closely win or draw those games, but I'd be glad for any advice.

Blight haulers give you on demand cover, which makes those plague marines 2+ saves. Give those a look.

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
How does that list fare against craftworld/ynnari eldar?
I feel like my PM are dying in droves against shining spears and shuriken cannons, while rangers keep blowing up my support characters.

I still tend to closely win or draw those games, but I'd be glad for any advice.

Blight haulers give you on demand cover, which makes those plague marines 2+ saves. Give those a look.

yes then you face couple of eldar wraithfighters (worse if they have jinx) and poof your 2+ Pm melts like snow. But maybe in ITC might be different

 blackmage wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
How does that list fare against craftworld/ynnari eldar?
I feel like my PM are dying in droves against shining spears and shuriken cannons, while rangers keep blowing up my support characters.

I still tend to closely win or draw those games, but I'd be glad for any advice.

Blight haulers give you on demand cover, which makes those plague marines 2+ saves. Give those a look.

yes then you face couple of eldar wraithfighters (worse if they have jinx) and poof your 2+ Pm melts like snow. But maybe in ITC might be different

You can come up with a counter to just about every situation in the game by doing what you just did. That doesn't mean the tactic is any less valid...

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
How does that list fare against craftworld/ynnari eldar?
I feel like my PM are dying in droves against shining spears and shuriken cannons, while rangers keep blowing up my support characters.

I still tend to closely win or draw those games, but I'd be glad for any advice.

Blight haulers give you on demand cover, which makes those plague marines 2+ saves. Give those a look.

I've been running haulers for a long time and they do next to nothing to help the issue. Snipers deal mortal wounds which ignore armor anyways and against those shuriken sixes, a 5+ is only marginally better at saving my 16 point marines than a 6+.

And let's just say that cover isn't very effective against shining spears in general

it is because wraith fighters and eldar in general are very common, at least in ETC. Would love to see some lists with Pm that consistently make great results in ITC major events, can give me some interesting hints. The problem is not the couter itself is how much your "trick" cost compared to counter a 2xwraithfighter (in this specific example) 420pts, 5 Pm with 2 bligh launchers+3 MBH ( i cant even take into account play just one cause is just no sense) are 451pts. wont ever talk about what 8 shining spears do to Pm (32 shuriken shots+8 ap-4 2 damage shots+16 ap-4 d2 str6 melee attacks). Anyway as usual im taking a competitive view and most here talk about casual point of view ,so we dont have same kind of game experience, i guess that's fair i wont insist, in any case Pm are still overcosted.

 blackmage wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
How does that list fare against craftworld/ynnari eldar?
I feel like my PM are dying in droves against shining spears and shuriken cannons, while rangers keep blowing up my support characters.

I still tend to closely win or draw those games, but I'd be glad for any advice.

Blight haulers give you on demand cover, which makes those plague marines 2+ saves. Give those a look.

yes then you face couple of eldar wraithfighters (worse if they have jinx) and poof your 2+ Pm melts like snow. But maybe in ITC might be different

Hemlocks are never, ever shooting plague marines (my opponents aren't idiots), plus they are dead by turn 2. Turns out -2 to hit psyker planes don't like plague spitters at all.
Big hitters like hemlocks, fire prisms or black reapers are usually busy stopping daemon engines, terminators or Mortarion.

My problems is a wave serpent, ranger unit or some guardians rolling some lucky sixes to kill half a unit of plague marines out of nowhere. Basically it feels like all the tax guns which don't have anything else to shoot at chip away at my plague marines at an alarming rate.
On top of that, even a half dead shining spear unit simply charges and wipes out a unit of plague marines per turn. Or an autarch charges them and kill them.
I'm usually all out of plague marines by turn 3.

I'm usually playing CA 2017 and 2018 missions with no additional house rules.