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Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/25 00:50:38


Post by: Niiru


I know it breaks the fluff a bit, and it loses some cohesion with daemon buffs, but I'm not a big fan of many of the Nurgle daemon options (other than nurglings, yay nurglings), and have some thoughts on conversions for exalted flamers which would fit my theme...

Any thoughts on pros / cons of mixing in some tzeentch exalted flamers (and anything else) into a list?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/25 01:14:33


Post by: blackmage


or lot of nurglings if you are short with points


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/26 15:48:40


Post by: gwarsh41


 Billagio wrote:
Cool, how do you equip your drones?


Mowers are super fun once they get in, but spitters are better. They don't have the same damage output, but they cannot be stopped from doing damage without killing them. Their overwatch is brutal, and they are amazing harassment units.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/27 12:35:29


Post by: elk@work


 Billagio wrote:
Cool, how do you equip your drones?

spitters are top choice
mowers need rerol to hit and can't charge/fight after fall-back, bad for harrasement
got 1 equiped with heavy launcher - not bad, really, good range and no sinking at taking wounds, good for taking down modest characters or termies or holding an objective while shooting from range


Death Guard Tactica @ 2019/05/15 16:02:11


Post by: COLD CASH


Any one got killteam wanna send me the DG info? much appreciated. no cash at the mo to get the core.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/30 01:06:39


Post by: Zid


Death guard won the bay area open.

Don hooson used 3 pbc, winged dp, 10 blightlords, blightspawn, dual gat renegade knight, and 2 autocannon armigers.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/30 03:26:20


Post by: ZergSmasher


What was on the Blightlords?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/01/28 07:08:47


Post by: Dedwoods42


 ZergSmasher wrote:
What was on the Blightlords?


Combi-bolters, two Blight Launchers, Bubotic Axes, two Flails.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/30 09:53:53


Post by: COLD CASH


I presume they(blights) are a soak unit and cappers.

I had been toying with a similiar list but not the blights. Good to know im not crazy with my list selection.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/30 12:53:15


Post by: buddha


 Zid wrote:
Death guard won the bay area open.

Don hooson used 3 pbc, winged dp, 10 blightlords, blightspawn, dual gat renegade knight, and 2 autocannon armigers.


Wow, super surprised that list won BAO but the results speak for themselves.

Do we know the exact list?


Death Guard Tactica @ 0010/07/16 12:55:33


Post by: Zid


 buddha wrote:
 Zid wrote:
Death guard won the bay area open.

Don hooson used 3 pbc, winged dp, 10 blightlords, blightspawn, dual gat renegade knight, and 2 autocannon armigers.


Wow, super surprised that list won BAO but the results speak for themselves.

Do we know the exact list?


That is literally it... lords had combi bolters, 2 launchers. 2 flails. Rest axes.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/30 13:11:50


Post by: buddha


 Zid wrote:
 buddha wrote:
 Zid wrote:
Death guard won the bay area open.

Don hooson used 3 pbc, winged dp, 10 blightlords, blightspawn, dual gat renegade knight, and 2 autocannon armigers.


Wow, super surprised that list won BAO but the results speak for themselves.

Do we know the exact list?


That is literally it... lords had combi bolters, 2 launchers. 2 flails. Rest axes.


Interesting, thank you. Would love to know how the list played as, though string, doesn't look like a GT winning list.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/30 13:26:09


Post by: blackmage


the list was

super heavy det
renegade IK with double gatling and ironstorm missiles
2x helverins

Dg spearhead
Dp, wings, double talon, suppurating plate arch-contaminator
3x PBC double spitter
blightspawn
10 blightlords, 6 combi bolter 2 blight launchers 8 axes 2 flails
Is a direct answer to De IK meta, though targets able to endure and hit pretty hard, it is also a nice counter to all custodes around, multiple damage (helverins) wreak havocs to all those multiwound models. Dp mainly baby sitting PBC giving them reroll 1's and reroll all wounds, that list tabled a custodes list in final match. In a meta tuned on anti horde this can be a nice answer too (many lists pack tons of anti infantry fire and less anti veichles).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/03 04:15:09


Post by: gwarsh41


Yeah, that list is a bit mixed. Knights set will be good at taking out hordes. Blightspawn probably chills with a knight, or maybe walks around and harass. Single DP and 10 TDA is where it throws me off a bit.

I think I'd be interested in trying the list out. Maybe armigers sit on back objectives? 10 TDA is pretty chunky, especially if you make them T6.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/30 16:39:56


Post by: blackmage


armigers run over the table wreaking havocs on light veichles and multi wound models and when needed they sit on obj, in that specific list termies are fine, not sure if you play a different kind of list, there anything is though and give opponent hard choices about which unit focus 1st. I play ETC and i think that specific build hardly can compete here (no troops for objectives) but with ITC rules seems like works great.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/30 16:57:37


Post by: Zid


 blackmage wrote:
armigers run over the table wreaking havocs on light veichles and multi wound models and when needed they sit on obj, in that specific list termies are fine, not sure if you play a different kind of list, there anything is though and give opponent hard choices about which unit focus 1st. I play ETC and i think that specific build hardly can compete here (no troops for objectives) but with ITC rules seems like works great.


Everything holds objectives. You just need to kill troops

Also, dont forget the death guard trait turns everything into objective secured.

Don said only 3 models survived over his 6 games, a couple company commanders and another hq


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/30 17:13:47


Post by: bananathug


The double gatling knight put in a lot of work and with the PBCs present a lot of t8 wounds that you don't necessarily want to charge in order to turn off the shooting.

List seems to take advantage of removal of a lot of t1 charges via deepstrike.

The termies are super resilient and killy enough (final table they solo'd the custode captain Trajann and he's mad dangerous) and the DP offers good enough counter-charge ability to chase off captain slammies.

Seems like the enemy usually targets knight first, but by the time they can kill it the armigers/PBCs/DP have killed their anti-tank.

I'd guess a solid horde of orks/gaunts would be the counter to this list but I didn't see anything like that at BAO. Those flails vs imperial units are nnnnaaaassstttyyy.

I'm curious how he dealt with melee knights since those seem like the hardest thing for his list to deal with outside of 200+ model lists...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/30 17:16:59


Post by: Zid


bananathug wrote:
The double gatling knight put in a lot of work and with the PBCs present a lot of t8 wounds that you don't necessarily want to charge in order to turn off the shooting.

List seems to take advantage of removal of a lot of t1 charges via deepstrike.

The termies are super resilient and killy enough (final table they solo'd the custode captain Trajann and he's mad dangerous) and the DP offers good enough counter-charge ability to chase off captain slammies.

Seems like the enemy usually targets knight first, but by the time they can kill it the armigers/PBCs/DP have killed their anti-tank.

I'd guess a solid horde of orks/gaunts would be the counter to this list but I didn't see anything like that at BAO. Those flails vs imperial units are nnnnaaaassstttyyy.

I'm curious how he dealt with melee knights since those seem like the hardest thing for his list to deal with outside of 200+ model lists...


I will.ask for ya. Yes, flails are insane against imperium units... flails are soooooo good.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/30 19:10:43


Post by: blackmage


 Zid wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
armigers run over the table wreaking havocs on light veichles and multi wound models and when needed they sit on obj, in that specific list termies are fine, not sure if you play a different kind of list, there anything is though and give opponent hard choices about which unit focus 1st. I play ETC and i think that specific build hardly can compete here (no troops for objectives) but with ITC rules seems like works great.


Everything holds objectives. You just need to kill troops

Also, dont forget the death guard trait turns everything into objective secured.

Don said only 3 models survived over his 6 games, a couple company commanders and another hq

which trait? i read TROOPS under plague host legion trait.
Yes i meant helverins are fast enough to run around the board grabbing objective, i said time ago helverins are great in actual meta, now i own 3 and already played in last tournament and plan to play again.
So i guess his list was built to table opponents?

I'd guess a solid horde of orks/gaunts would be the counter to this list but I didn't see anything like that at BAO. Those flails vs imperial units are nnnnaaaassstttyyy.

maybe, but with 6d6+blightspwan flamers 12d3 shots from helverins and 24+2d6 flamers hist from Ik im not sure hordes have an easy time, if i would play this list here in europe i would switch termies for a Nurgle demon battalion to add some extra bodies screen helverins and PBC and obj grabbers, but im sure it lost lot of removal power then without those 10 blightlords.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 01:47:14


Post by: Zid


 blackmage wrote:
 Zid wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
armigers run over the table wreaking havocs on light veichles and multi wound models and when needed they sit on obj, in that specific list termies are fine, not sure if you play a different kind of list, there anything is though and give opponent hard choices about which unit focus 1st. I play ETC and i think that specific build hardly can compete here (no troops for objectives) but with ITC rules seems like works great.


Everything holds objectives. You just need to kill troops

Also, dont forget the death guard trait turns everything into objective secured.

Don said only 3 models survived over his 6 games, a couple company commanders and another hq

which trait? i read TROOPS under plague host legion trait.
Yes i meant helverins are fast enough to run around the board grabbing objective, i said time ago helverins are great in actual meta, now i own 3 and already played in last tournament and plan to play again.
So i guess his list was built to table opponents?

I'd guess a solid horde of orks/gaunts would be the counter to this list but I didn't see anything like that at BAO. Those flails vs imperial units are nnnnaaaassstttyyy.

maybe, but with 6d6+blightspwan flamers 12d3 shots from helverins and 24+2d6 flamers hist from Ik im not sure hordes have an easy time, if i would play this list here in europe i would switch termies for a Nurgle demon battalion to add some extra bodies screen helverins and PBC and obj grabbers, but im sure it lost lot of removal power then without those 10 blightlords.


You are right. But itc is more about steady pressure most games; and itc now uses chess clocks, so lists that play quicker are gonna be more common.

I dont disagree that this list would handle hordes well.

However, with CA right around the corner plus the big faq, i imagine that knights in general are in for some tweeks. Theyre tearing up the tourney scene, they are incredibly points efficient


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 09:08:02


Post by: hollow one


https://www.twitch.tv/videos/290663637?t=05h38m19s

Death guard list with the blightlords vs Custodes (finals of the BAO)

I'm not sold on the blightlords, they were held up by a 250 point model for 3 turns this game, but the pilot of the army swears by them. I'd rather another knight in this list, or three FBD for the same price.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 09:09:37


Post by: Dedwoods42


 Zid wrote:
Spoiler:
 blackmage wrote:
 Zid wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
armigers run over the table wreaking havocs on light veichles and multi wound models and when needed they sit on obj, in that specific list termies are fine, not sure if you play a different kind of list, there anything is though and give opponent hard choices about which unit focus 1st. I play ETC and i think that specific build hardly can compete here (no troops for objectives) but with ITC rules seems like works great.


Everything holds objectives. You just need to kill troops

Also, dont forget the death guard trait turns everything into objective secured.

Don said only 3 models survived over his 6 games, a couple company commanders and another hq

which trait? i read TROOPS under plague host legion trait.
Yes i meant helverins are fast enough to run around the board grabbing objective, i said time ago helverins are great in actual meta, now i own 3 and already played in last tournament and plan to play again.
So i guess his list was built to table opponents?

I'd guess a solid horde of orks/gaunts would be the counter to this list but I didn't see anything like that at BAO. Those flails vs imperial units are nnnnaaaassstttyyy.

maybe, but with 6d6+blightspwan flamers 12d3 shots from helverins and 24+2d6 flamers hist from Ik im not sure hordes have an easy time, if i would play this list here in europe i would switch termies for a Nurgle demon battalion to add some extra bodies screen helverins and PBC and obj grabbers, but im sure it lost lot of removal power then without those 10 blightlords.


You are right. But itc is more about steady pressure most games; and itc now uses chess clocks, so lists that play quicker are gonna be more common.

I dont disagree that this list would handle hordes well.

However, with CA right around the corner plus the big faq, i imagine that knights in general are in for some tweeks. Theyre tearing up the tourney scene, they are incredibly points efficient


The next big FAQ is September, CA is December(ish).

Knights may be tearing up the scene right now - but most lists have been slow to adapt. Many people are still just running horde clearance and not much in the way of anti-Knight.
We'll need to wait a while for the meta to settle on Knights.
There will likely be a rock-paper-scissors situation for a while once the dust settles - hordes beating AA, AA beating Knights and the Knight hybrid soup lists beating hordes.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 09:30:49


Post by: blackmage


 hollow one wrote:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/290663637?t=05h38m19s

Death guard list with the blightlords vs Custodes (finals of the BAO)

I'm not sold on the blightlords, they were held up by a 250 point model for 3 turns this game, but the pilot of the army swears by them. I'd rather another knight in this list, or three FBD for the same price.

yes you right but... that unit (blightlords) put up lot of pressure in enemy backfield let the rest of army run around grabbing obj and kill stuff, then you are talking of Trajan Valoris a very though nut to crack t7 ti 3++ can regain wounds, i doubt a "normal" 250pts model can hold them for 3 rounds as well, last but not least the damage output of blightlord is pretty high, he said blightlord was great in 5 of his 6 games but just not so good in last match, btw BD are a nice choice indeed.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 10:11:18


Post by: hollow one


Yeah I don't mind them on paper, but from a practical standpoint they looked mediocre. I bet they were not "all stars" but rather "effective role-players" in an otherwise well tuned shooting list.

You throw those blightlords in a standard daemons list, like DPs and plaguebearers etc, and the blightlords will be underwhelming because they sort of do no damage.

IMO i think the PBC and the Titan + armigers are the heavy lifters in this list, and the wildcard value of not knowing exactly what to send to kill blightlords might have gotten him some edges. But yeah, 3xFBD is cheaper, tougher, faster, can't be tied down, and doesn't rely on 9" charges. They probably fit in your army faster than 10 blightlords, unless you are copying this exact list.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 10:19:14


Post by: blackmage


i agree indeed i will not play termies since long time i always play FBD in my lists.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 12:23:52


Post by: Zid


Heres what don posted as a statement on facebook regarding questions on the BLTs and their viability (from here on its a direct quote):

"So, funny story(to me at least): I have seen people questioning my choice on the blight lords and some are open to trying them while others are basing their whole perception on what they did vs Geoff in game 6. It took roughly 5-6 rounds of combat(3 game rounds) against Trajan to finish him off while only sustaining 5 casualties. I would like to add in a couple extra pieces of data. Trajan had to use Victor of the blood games and a CP reroll every phase to not get removed. (Both are once per phase rerolls). He is a toughness 5, 7 wound, 3++ invulnerable save model, that healed 2 wounds(effectively making him 9 wounds). He also has 5 or 6 str10 ap3 attacks with D3dmg. Rerolling 1s to hit and wound.

Say what you will about players rolling great. I rolled hot on my armigers. He rolled hot on Trajan. He was able to, with 6 rounds of combat, a full dakka phase from him, 9 bikers, and a couple custodes guard, kill 5 before they broke out and were on the path to slaying the warlord.

That was their worst showing at the event by far and I don't consider that to be bad either. They took Trajan and 8-9 CP to keep from going ham, like they did in all their preceding games."




A lot of people are now toying with terminators in various lists. The biggest thing is the unit was a delivery vessal for the flails and launchers. Flails, as we all know, are excellent.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 12:49:00


Post by: Brymm


They are great! Not just flail delivery. A ton of wounds with 2+/5+/5++, deep strike, large foot print, good shooting, good CC, great in his list because anti horde clearing fire vs these guys is probably the least efficient target in the game.
They are more than flails.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 12:52:38


Post by: elk@work


 Brymm wrote:
A ton of wounds with 2+/5+/5++

2+/4+/5++


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 13:27:28


Post by: Brymm


 elk@work wrote:
 Brymm wrote:
A ton of wounds with 2+/5+/5++

2+/4+/5++


Even better!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 14:01:28


Post by: Thantos Kalev


Now, to just find a similar, tournament-winning list featuring deathshroud...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 14:05:16


Post by: orkswubwub


I'm just curious how do the blightlords actually apply pressure? Particularly with 2 with flail - I can understand against bikers that charge in but my chief issue has always been failing the 9 inch charge and then my opponent just fire and fading away from this bulk unit that only moves 4 inches - even with warp time barely toeing 8 inches - and with shining spears etc move/advancing 21 inches and/or venoms flying around - how do you actually get in melee I am wondering? Even knights move 12 inches.

I know the unit doesn't work in isolation but in general it isnt' too hard to shoot what you want while staying away from a 4 inch move unit. Obviously it worked as this list won BAO and it seems obvious that BL can be tough in melee (particularly with flail etc.) but it just isn't obvious to me how to really make this unit useful from a movement standpoint.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 14:14:59


Post by: buddha


orkswubwub wrote:
I'm just curious how do the blightlords actually apply pressure? Particularly with 2 with flail - I can understand against bikers that charge in but my chief issue has always been failing the 9 inch charge and then my opponent just fire and fading away from this bulk unit that only moves 4 inches - even with warp time barely toeing 8 inches - and with shining spears etc move/advancing 21 inches and/or venoms flying around - how do you actually get in melee I am wondering? Even knights move 12 inches.

I know the unit doesn't work in isolation but in general it isnt' too hard to shoot what you want while staying away from a 4 inch move unit. Obviously it worked as this list won BAO and it seems obvious that BL can be tough in melee (particularly with flail etc.) but it just isn't obvious to me how to really make this unit useful from a movement standpoint.


This had been my primary question as well. Their 4" movement rate means they can be safley ignored if they whiff their initial charge.

Don't get me wrong, winning BAO with a 500 point Terminator block stands on it's own as proof of their value. I would just love for someone to explain how they we're used and avoided their movement problems.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 14:24:01


Post by: blackmage


 Zid wrote:
Heres what don posted as a statement on facebook regarding questions on the BLTs and their viability (from here on its a direct quote):

"So, funny story(to me at least): I have seen people questioning my choice on the blight lords and some are open to trying them while others are basing their whole perception on what they did vs Geoff in game 6. It took roughly 5-6 rounds of combat(3 game rounds) against Trajan to finish him off while only sustaining 5 casualties. I would like to add in a couple extra pieces of data. Trajan had to use Victor of the blood games and a CP reroll every phase to not get removed. (Both are once per phase rerolls). He is a toughness 5, 7 wound, 3++ invulnerable save model, that healed 2 wounds(effectively making him 9 wounds). He also has 5 or 6 str10 ap3 attacks with D3dmg. Rerolling 1s to hit and wound.

Say what you will about players rolling great. I rolled hot on my armigers. He rolled hot on Trajan. He was able to, with 6 rounds of combat, a full dakka phase from him, 9 bikers, and a couple custodes guard, kill 5 before they broke out and were on the path to slaying the warlord.

That was their worst showing at the event by far and I don't consider that to be bad either. They took Trajan and 8-9 CP to keep from going ham, like they did in all their preceding games."




A lot of people are now toying with terminators in various lists. The biggest thing is the unit was a delivery vessal for the flails and launchers. Flails, as we all know, are excellent.

real fact is... many copy internet lists and wont try anything outside the box, i played in past blightlords (when Dg codex was released) then switched to demons and start playing FBD instead, cause they fit better in my style of list, btw those termies are the only ones i still like to play.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 14:39:04


Post by: lindsay40k


Well, they’re an anvil unit with a lot of perks over regular TDA; 24” Blight Launcher range, 18” double tap on the bolters, frightening melee capability, preposterously tough, able to benefit from +1T spell - if you can drop them in a good location, they’ll force your opponent to try to do something about them


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 14:46:14


Post by: blackmage


 buddha wrote:
orkswubwub wrote:
I'm just curious how do the blightlords actually apply pressure? Particularly with 2 with flail - I can understand against bikers that charge in but my chief issue has always been failing the 9 inch charge and then my opponent just fire and fading away from this bulk unit that only moves 4 inches - even with warp time barely toeing 8 inches - and with shining spears etc move/advancing 21 inches and/or venoms flying around - how do you actually get in melee I am wondering? Even knights move 12 inches.

I know the unit doesn't work in isolation but in general it isnt' too hard to shoot what you want while staying away from a 4 inch move unit. Obviously it worked as this list won BAO and it seems obvious that BL can be tough in melee (particularly with flail etc.) but it just isn't obvious to me how to really make this unit useful from a movement standpoint.


This had been my primary question as well. Their 4" movement rate means they can be safley ignored if they whiff their initial charge.

Don't get me wrong, winning BAO with a 500 point Terminator block stands on it's own as proof of their value. I would just love for someone to explain how they we're used and avoided their movement problems.

are you so sure you can avoid them all the time? they anyway fire (minimun fire range of 22") and you can drop them close to "sensitive spots" like objectives, ok ignore them i can grab 2 objeactives and then lets see if you can keep ignoring, not anything move 12"+, make some veichles/heavy weapons teams move and you restrain their ability to shoot back at you (-1 to hit heavy weapons), keep away from objectives , is like negate it to them (here in Italy in etc, objectives are the main way to win games) and in the meanwhile you struggle to stay away from termies and shoot at them, dont forget you have 1 Ik 2 helverins and 3 PCB tearing ur army apart, you score easily linebreaker, btw the only one who can really explain anything is BAO winner. imho


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 15:58:47


Post by: gwarsh41


orkswubwub wrote:
I'm just curious how do the blightlords actually apply pressure? Particularly with 2 with flail - I can understand against bikers that charge in but my chief issue has always been failing the 9 inch charge and then my opponent just fire and fading away from this bulk unit that only moves 4 inches - even with warp time barely toeing 8 inches - and with shining spears etc move/advancing 21 inches and/or venoms flying around - how do you actually get in melee I am wondering? Even knights move 12 inches.

I know the unit doesn't work in isolation but in general it isnt' too hard to shoot what you want while staying away from a 4 inch move unit. Obviously it worked as this list won BAO and it seems obvious that BL can be tough in melee (particularly with flail etc.) but it just isn't obvious to me how to really make this unit useful from a movement standpoint.


I've only ran them in multiple blobs of 5, but I do it pretty often in non tournament games. Generally there are 3 outcomes to a blightlord drop.

1. Succeed in charge, opponent dedicates too much firepower to retaliate against them and they are an awesome distraction that dealt serious damage.
2. Fail in charge, opponent dedicates too much firepower to clean them up.
3. Fail in charge, opponent moves a large portion of their army away from the terminators, effectively handing me the objective.


There are only a few times where I am underwhelmed with them. They are super hard to kill and have some good damage. Of the few times, all charge fails, they were shot by DA hellblasters with re-roll 1s for everything and the +1dmg plasma strat, in rapid fire range, and that finished off 5 of them pretty quickly. Honestly that is generally what ends up kill them, hellblasters. Only one game was the third outcome so bad that I regret my placement of them. I dropped them in a corner on a building with no levels, just a 4" raised platform. It was a juicy spot, but they baited me perfectly. It took 2 turns to get off the building, by then he was far enough away and my combi melta were well out of range. That was the game where I decided to try plasma from then on.
I havent ever tried a brick of 10, though I can see the appeal. With 10, its harder for the opponent to run away, and easier to keep a daemon prince close for re-rolls. Plop them dead center so your opponent cannot easily run, without splitting their army. That unit has 24 bolter shots? Which isn't half bad to clear out drones, cultists, IG, or whatever is screening. What is surprising to me is that the blightlords did so well without blades or miasma on them. I guess if you have knights or PBC close enough, cloud of flies will be insanely good to use on them.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 16:37:34


Post by: blackmage


yeah more or less i agree, run away from a large footprint blob of termies like that means give me average 2 objectives, if you place them wisely, dedicate lot of firepower is ok if we consider the BAO list where you have lot of models raining fire upon you, try kill termies (u can or not) but the rest keep firing and removing your models.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 16:41:42


Post by: orkswubwub


So to put this in context - we are talking from a competitive standpoint - it is clear to all DG players the decent statline, but there is always a difference between bleeding edge competitive and "good/playable."

I also think that a 500 point objective sitter might be a bit heavy... I will have to play it to try out - just crazy how BL win a tournament and suddenly everyone acts like it was common sense all along they are competitive - we have 71 pages in this forum that say almost the exact opposite...

Also 500 points for double tapping combibolters on 6 units (24 shots with 0 AP) and the 4 blightlauncher shots may be viewed skeptically. You could get a ton more dakka from cultists for the same price on the scale of double or triple the shots.

So yes, I would still argue you could ignore this unit - the game only goes 6 turns, one of which the BL are probably in deepstrike. I see the point regarding dropping near an objective but still, with 4-6 objectives on the board, it seems you could still afford to ignore a unit bordering 500 points and deal with all of the other issues on the table, such as the knights/armigers and PBC.

As noted above, I am willing to play it a bit but the value from a competitive standpoint isn't obvious (in my opinion and in the 71 pages prior of this thread).

I would note that these are beautiful models and I am happy to have additional models for consideration to take to tournies at the end of the day. I just haven't come to terms completely with the above reservations though... Guess I will have to figure it out on the table.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 18:21:38


Post by: blackmage


well i played a lot BL and what i can say is they are playable, no need they must be list "powerhorse" , i just understand why he used in that list, that said i m unsure how they can work in another list , it's same issue playing Magnus, if opponenr start you get 445pt fethed up turn 1 but that doens't mean is unplayable, if the rest of my list thanks to Magnus sacrifice reach the game objective i dont mind, same for those BL, imho.
PS: i keep playing something else anyway regardless BAO results, i have my success with another kind of list.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 22:16:22


Post by: Zid


 buddha wrote:
orkswubwub wrote:
I'm just curious how do the blightlords actually apply pressure? Particularly with 2 with flail - I can understand against bikers that charge in but my chief issue has always been failing the 9 inch charge and then my opponent just fire and fading away from this bulk unit that only moves 4 inches - even with warp time barely toeing 8 inches - and with shining spears etc move/advancing 21 inches and/or venoms flying around - how do you actually get in melee I am wondering? Even knights move 12 inches.

I know the unit doesn't work in isolation but in general it isnt' too hard to shoot what you want while staying away from a 4 inch move unit. Obviously it worked as this list won BAO and it seems obvious that BL can be tough in melee (particularly with flail etc.) but it just isn't obvious to me how to really make this unit useful from a movement standpoint.


This had been my primary question as well. Their 4" movement rate means they can be safley ignored if they whiff their initial charge.

Don't get me wrong, winning BAO with a 500 point Terminator block stands on it's own as proof of their value. I would just love for someone to explain how they we're used and avoided their movement problems.


He used them to force his opponents into a lose lose; run toward his lines with pbcs and knights, or turn back and tryband take out 10 terminators.

He has been posting reps of the games. Short synopsises. Take aways has been that they chew up backline objective holders many ITC lists rely on, plus support units, while the demon prince/knights/spawn come from the other side.

In all games but two he tabled his opponents.
Game 1 was vs temptestus scion spam with xyphon intercepter and a knight. Game 2 was custodes w ig battalion. Game 3 was de talos and ravagers. Game 4 was harlequin haywire spam with ravagers n junk. Game 5 was against 1k sons smite spam. Game 6 was the streamed game against custodes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 blackmage wrote:
well i played a lot BL and what i can say is they are playable, no need they must be list "powerhorse" , i just understand why he used in that list, that said i m unsure how they can work in another list , it's same issue playing Magnus, if opponenr start you get 445pt fethed up turn 1 but that doens't mean is unplayable, if the rest of my list thanks to Magnus sacrifice reach the game objective i dont mind, same for those BL, imho.
PS: i keep playing something else anyway regardless BAO results, i have my success with another kind of list.


Blightlords models are awesome and it sparks peoples creativity when they see they can win.

There is no "one list" regardless. So many formats, missions, and most of all dice, can factor hugely into a game.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/07/31 22:26:29


Post by: blackmage


would be intersting how the game went against De.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/01 01:32:19


Post by: lindsay40k


 Zid wrote:
He used them to force his opponents into a lose lose; run toward his lines with pbcs and knights, or turn back and tryband take out 10 terminators.

He has been posting reps of the games. Short synopsises. Take aways has been that they chew up backline objective holders many ITC lists rely on, plus support units, while the demon prince/knights/spawn come from the other side.


Are people facing Chaos not screening against DS any more since the double-nerf, or what?



Don’t get me wrong, I love that someone’s made a TDA unit work, been admiring the kit and considering getting one but I’m broke atm and something that’ll be a liability in game is a big ask (especially since I already sunk monies into some Deathshroud). It’s my birthday and if this strat is solid, I might just treat myself to a box with my paper presents


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/01 02:23:28


Post by: Brother Payne


I can see the merits of the BLTs but it requires a v specific list archetype with lots of v durable units that need to be dealt with. Whilst they're easy to avoid, the point is that they have to be avoided which pushes opponents to make more dificult decisions.

What are people's thoughts on swapping the BLT blob for Mortarion in that list?

Edit: typos


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/01 09:22:15


Post by: blackmage


Mortarion should work fine, just as usual you lose 1st turn mean Mortarion dead 90% times.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/01 12:15:16


Post by: Ravemastaj


With the new Termite transports coming out, do you guys think that Blight Haulers and Plague Marines will make a come back? I run Adeptus Mechanicus as my main army, and since I'm getting those models, I was just thinking of the following setup:

Spoiler:
Outrider detachment:

1 Malignant Plague Caster
6 Blighthaulers
3 Bloat drones

Battalion:

1 M Plague Caster
1 Chaos Lord Termie
As many Plague Marines as I can handle
2-3 Termites


First turn, you have all of your fast attack on the board, and the Psyker gives -1 to hit to someone. Move up the board to position the Blight Haulers where you are going to deep strike your marines.

Turn 2, DS where your marines are all 2+ or so. Enter close combat or shoot, depending on taste. Blight haulers/Bloat drones tear vehicles/chaffe a new donkey-cave before charging with the drills.Whatever group of Haulers got hit the worst on turn one babysits the marines, letting them keep their 2+ saves.

Does this sound viable or are Blight Haulers just that bad? I haven't seen anyone talk about them for the past 10 pages or so.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/01 15:13:27


Post by: Brymm


I personally don't think Blight Haulers are bad and I've had really good experience with them. They have a boat load of helpful special rules, are super tough, quick and a good force multiplier. You need to be using Plague Marines though to get the most out of them for the cover save to be worth it, and yes I use plague marines too, which are also crapped on quite a bit in this thread that I've also had great experiences with.

Things to note: the - 1 to hit in combat stacks with miasma of pestilence, making them just about unkillable in combat with the hit modifier, t7, 8w 3+/5 +/5++. Also cc attacks are plague weapons so benefit from a single cast of blades. Love these little guys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and added note to the blight haulers, with all the Blight Lord love, cover on the terminators would make a tough unit tougher if that's even needed.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/01 15:21:33


Post by: gwarsh41


I've got 2 termites, but only have 1 game with them. Right now my opinion of the termite is very high. The termite on it's own is very strong. T8 is beefy, it's melta shots and drill are very, very nice, and I think it suits DG pretty well.

I first ran 2, with a very fun list that was not meant for competitive, I actually lost the first game in a while, but still had a ton of fun with them. My loss (15-16) was due to investing WAAAAAAY too much into those termites, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to cram 10 PM and 2 support characters inside. This lead to difficulty balancing what would be on the table T1, mix that with forgetting about an objective, and it put me in a bad spot.
Anywho, onto the termites!

Both were able to pop up T2, the melta shots and storm bolters are pretty awesome. Was able to snipe a character with the melta shots! I didn't get a chance to charge anything big, so I never saw the mortal wounds go off, but I did munch through elite infantry with ease. If you can get that fist 9" charge, its brutal, as they have 6 attacks. One held up slamguinius for 3 turns. After his initial charge failed, he didn't have much luck with +4s to wound.
Keeping half my power level on the table T1 was the challenge with packed termites.

Next time I'll be running MSU PM in them. Maybe 5 marines with 3 plasma in each. If I have the points, I might even go with 2x5 marines with 3 plasma. Getting D3 melta shots and 12 plasma shots wherever I want on T2 is pretty nice. I think that keeping the termite payload light and useful will be the best way to do it. They are durable and have some serious potential in CC, so your opponents will need to deal with them. I'm planning a mech list that will have both of them in it soon too.


I think blight haulers fall flat because so much of our army is plague weapons, and arch contaminator is a great trait for that. Blight haulers can't take any plague weapons worth mentioning, so they fall a bit flat. If they could have a blight launcher, we might see them in use more often.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/01 21:36:42


Post by: Kuklops


I'm really happy to see someone winning with Blightlords. Such a cool unit!

The guys list is really clever, not sure how it would do against astra millitarum, did he play plasma Russ tanks and 120 guard?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/02 00:15:14


Post by: thisisnotpancho


 Zid wrote:


This had been my primary question as well. Their 4" movement rate means they can be safley ignored if they whiff their initial charge.

Don't get me wrong, winning BAO with a 500 point Terminator block stands on it's own as proof of their value. I would just love for someone to explain how they we're used and avoided their movement problems.

He used them to force his opponents into a lose lose; run toward his lines with pbcs and knights, or turn back and tryband take out 10 terminators.

He has been posting reps of the games. Short synopsises. Take aways has been that they chew up backline objective holders many ITC lists rely on, plus support units, while the demon prince/knights/spawn come from the other side.

In all games but two he tabled his opponents.
Game 1 was vs temptestus scion spam with xyphon intercepter and a knight. Game 2 was custodes w ig battalion. Game 3 was de talos and ravagers. Game 4 was harlequin haywire spam with ravagers n junk. Game 5 was against 1k sons smite spam. Game 6 was the streamed game against custodes.



Where is he posting write ups?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/02 00:25:46


Post by: COLD CASH


Imo the dreadclaw drop pods are great. Dont know why they havent caught on with msu marine players.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/02 08:19:07


Post by: Jidmah


 Zid wrote:
He has been posting reps of the games. Short synopsises. Take aways has been that they chew up backline objective holders many ITC lists rely on, plus support units, while the demon prince/knights/spawn come from the other side.


Got a link to those reports?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/02 15:19:38


Post by: lindsay40k


Huh. They changed the rules for disembarking a Termite, then. Originally, it was ‘do not disembark on arrival’, now it is ‘can disembark on arrival’. That opens up a lot of possibilities.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/02 16:20:04


Post by: gwarsh41


COLD CASH wrote:
Imo the dreadclaw drop pods are great. Dont know why they havent caught on with msu marine players.


Terrax pattern Termite assault drill is 4pt more, has +1T, a stronger melee attack, 2 more transport capacyt, more reliable shooting, and if I am reading this right, you do not have to immediately get out.
Dreadclaws are much faster, but I think the termite is a clear winner if you compare both of them.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/02 16:20:20


Post by: Zid


For anyone interested in his reps, you need to join the 40k death guard players - plague marines of nurgle facebook group. Hes been posting them slowly, 3/6 games up.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/02 16:27:25


Post by: blackmage


 Zid wrote:
For anyone interested in his reps, you need to join the 40k death guard players - plague marines of nurgle facebook group. Hes been posting them slowly, 3/6 games up.

thx im interested to read his BR's


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/02 18:45:59


Post by: Billagio


What do you guys think of this list for 1500? It’s basically just using 2 DI boxes and an extra FBD and a DP. Still has some points to play with

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [75 PL, 1371pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Use Beta Rules

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 2. Gift of Contagion, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 3. Plague Wind

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [10 PL, 145pts]
. Plague Champion
. . Codex: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [10 PL, 145pts]
. Plague Champion
. . Codex: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Poxwalker

+ Elites +

Foul Blightspawn [4 PL, 77pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe


++ Total: [75 PL, 1371pts] ++



Any suggestions?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/03 00:58:21


Post by: Claas


 blackmage wrote:
 Zid wrote:
For anyone interested in his reps, you need to join the 40k death guard players - plague marines of nurgle facebook group. Hes been posting them slowly, 3/6 games up.

thx im interested to read his BR's


There's a good interview with Don I am listening to now. He basically took the Blight Lords because he was afraid his Morty would get damaged during the flight and they are about the same points.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/03 13:30:44


Post by: lindsay40k


 gwarsh41 wrote:
COLD CASH wrote:
Imo the dreadclaw drop pods are great. Dont know why they havent caught on with msu marine players.


Terrax pattern Termite assault drill is 4pt more, has +1T, a stronger melee attack, 2 more transport capacyt, more reliable shooting, and if I am reading this right, you do not have to immediately get out.
Dreadclaws are much faster, but I think the termite is a clear winner if you compare both of them.


The thing that distinguishes the Dreadclaw (and KAC) is the AOE flamer attack and ability to deploy on table if it turns out anti-tank isn’t an issue, and Warptime right into the enemy’s face.

The latter, of course, being redundant in a DG army...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/04 13:38:08


Post by: Ravemastaj


 gwarsh41 wrote:
I've got 2 termites, but only have 1 game with them. Right now my opinion of the termite is very high. The termite on it's own is very strong. T8 is beefy, it's melta shots and drill are very, very nice, and I think it suits DG pretty well.

I first ran 2, with a very fun list that was not meant for competitive, I actually lost the first game in a while, but still had a ton of fun with them. My loss (15-16) was due to investing WAAAAAAY too much into those termites, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to cram 10 PM and 2 support characters inside. This lead to difficulty balancing what would be on the table T1, mix that with forgetting about an objective, and it put me in a bad spot.
Anywho, onto the termites!

Both were able to pop up T2, the melta shots and storm bolters are pretty awesome. Was able to snipe a character with the melta shots! I didn't get a chance to charge anything big, so I never saw the mortal wounds go off, but I did munch through elite infantry with ease. If you can get that fist 9" charge, its brutal, as they have 6 attacks. One held up slamguinius for 3 turns. After his initial charge failed, he didn't have much luck with +4s to wound.
Keeping half my power level on the table T1 was the challenge with packed termites.

Next time I'll be running MSU PM in them. Maybe 5 marines with 3 plasma in each. If I have the points, I might even go with 2x5 marines with 3 plasma. Getting D3 melta shots and 12 plasma shots wherever I want on T2 is pretty nice. I think that keeping the termite payload light and useful will be the best way to do it. They are durable and have some serious potential in CC, so your opponents will need to deal with them. I'm planning a mech list that will have both of them in it soon too.


I think blight haulers fall flat because so much of our army is plague weapons, and arch contaminator is a great trait for that. Blight haulers can't take any plague weapons worth mentioning, so they fall a bit flat. If they could have a blight launcher, we might see them in use more often.


Blight haulers do have a plague weapon, though. A strength 6 one with 3 attacks. It's mouth.

I actually won a game today with this list (against Alpha Legion guys - 1500 points or so).

Spoiler:

Outrider detachment
HQ: 2 Malignant plague casters
Fast attack: 6 blighthaulers
2 Foetid Bloat drones

Auxillary:
1 Chaos Lord in Termie armour, combi-plas and chainfist


It was a pretty hilarious game to win. Only had 2 models at the end of the game (1 hauler and a plaguemancer) vs. 1 set of havocs and a single Thousand Sons Sgt. We played kill points because I've never played Death Guard, and just wanted to fool around. He had 11 drops to my 7 and he still went first. I'm probably gonna paint my guys red and make an Orc Demon Prince of Nurgle. The red ones go fasta!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/05 02:22:47


Post by: lindsay40k


Just this week I had my Slaanesh Daemonkin go up against Nurgle Daemonkin. A pile-on against three Blight Haulers led to a Maulerfiend and two Fiends of Slaanesh dying to overwatch, then a Sorcerer on Steed getting eaten alive. Nine AP-2 S6 attacks re-rolling 2’s to wound is like fighting a squad of Terminators with axes.

Keeper of Secrets barely managed to kick one of them over, and most of the heavy lifting there was done by Smite. I can see why they upset people when I march for Nurgle. It’s like throwing eggs at a brick wall.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/05 10:46:33


Post by: Brother Payne


Claas wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
 Zid wrote:
For anyone interested in his reps, you need to join the 40k death guard players - plague marines of nurgle facebook group. Hes been posting them slowly, 3/6 games up.

thx im interested to read his BR's


There's a good interview with Don I am listening to now. He basically took the Blight Lords because he was afraid his Morty would get damaged during the flight and they are about the same points.
Yeah I listened to an interview with him on the Best in Faction podcast. Was a good interview with some great insights and he runs through all his games there.

blackmage wrote:Mortarion should work fine, just as usual you lose 1st turn mean Mortarion dead 90% times.
As it happens, he originally had Mortarion in the list but chose to swap him for the BLTs because they were easier to transport (and he'd had good experiences with them in the past)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/06 13:03:17


Post by: lare2


 Billagio wrote:
What do you guys think of this list for 1500? It’s basically just using 2 DI boxes and an extra FBD and a DP. Still has some points to play with

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [75 PL, 1371pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Use Beta Rules

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 2. Gift of Contagion, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 3. Plague Wind

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [10 PL, 145pts]
. Plague Champion
. . Codex: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [10 PL, 145pts]
. Plague Champion
. . Codex: Boltgun, Plague knife
. 4x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Poxwalker

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Poxwalker

+ Elites +

Foul Blightspawn [4 PL, 77pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe


++ Total: [75 PL, 1371pts] ++



Any suggestions?


Looking good so far. You can't really complain with 3 FBD. Those running forward with the DP rocking arch-contaminator will cause merry hell.

Would probably consider slotting in another HQ.That way you'd be able to have an Outrider detachment and receive another CP. Imagine you have a LoC? He'd probably not be the best choice but would save you buying more and imagine you'd be able to fit him in. What about another MP? Personally I'd slot in a cheap Chaos Lord for the rerolling 1s (I hate how he doesn't get DR though! Nuts!)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/06 16:13:28


Post by: Jidmah


I use my Lord of Corruption as Terminator Lord with the Plaguebringer relic. He has never failed to disappoint me.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/10 06:23:28


Post by: Barnie25


Hi guys! After picking up DI a month ago, I want to set my sights and my gaming budget towards fleshing out a full 2000 point list. I am not necessarily a tournament player but I would like to run a list that has options and isn't terrible.

Does this list work? It has a lot of moving parts, however it does have a limited number of models. Any tips? I might be a heretic but I am contemplating changing out Morty with Magnus purely because I like the model. How would Magnus be worse or an improvement over Morty in this list and what other tips can you give me?

Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [83 PL, 1530pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince [INDEX] [9 PL, 180pts]: Hellforged sword, Malefic talon, Smite, Warptime, Wings

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, Hellforged sword, Malefic talon, Smite, Wings

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [7 PL, 105pts]
. . Plague Champion: Blight Grenades, Krak grenade
. . . . Codex: Boltgun, Plague knife
. . 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 2x Blight Grenades, 2x Boltgun, 2x Krak Grenades, 2x Plague knife
. . Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher, Krak grenade, Plague knife
. . Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher, Krak grenade, Plague knife

Plague Marines [7 PL, 105pts]
. . Plague Champion: Blight Grenades, Krak grenade
. . . . Codex: Boltgun, Plague knife
. . 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 2x Blight Grenades, 2x Boltgun, 2x Krak Grenades, 2x Plague knife
. . Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher, Krak grenade, Plague knife
. . Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher, Krak grenade, Plague knife

Poxwalkers [6 PL, 78pts]
. . 13x Poxwalker: 13x Improvised weapon

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Myphitic Blight-haulers [21 PL, 426pts]
. . Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Gnashing maw, Missile launcher, Multi-melta
. . Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Gnashing maw, Missile launcher, Multi-melta
. . Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Gnashing maw, Missile launcher, Multi-melta

+ Heavy Support +
Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger, Plagueburst Mortar

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [24 PL, 470pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Mortarion [24 PL, 470pts]: Attendant's claws and teeth, Phospex bombs, Silence, Smite, The Lantern

++ Total: [107 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/10 08:53:35


Post by: Jidmah


Note that you are no longer allowed to use the index rules for daemon princes, despite battle scribe allowing to add it.

A daemon prince must be from Codex:Chaos Daemons, Codex: Death Guard, Codex: Chaos Space Marines or Codex: Thousand Sons. None of them allow the combination of Warp Time psychic power and Death Guard legion.

Still, two daemon princes aren't the worst thing you could field, even if you are missing out on warptime.

Besides that, I have run a very similar list (1 PBC and blight lords instead of haulers), but your list might be even better. For me this has worked really well.

As for Magnus vs Mortarion, Magnus has the clear advantage of casting warptime onto himself and doing so much more reliably than any other psyker. The downside is that he has no shooting attack and little to combat hordes. Without his buffs, he is also more fragile than Mortarion, so you are more likely to lose him if you don't get first turn.

I don't think one has a clear advantage of the other, so if you like the Magnus model more and don't care for the fluff, go for it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/10 09:03:48


Post by: MinMax


Some will argue that you can use the Daemon Prince from the Index, because the Death Guard Codex entry is a different datasheet ("Daemon Prince of Nurgle", and has different options).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there was a clear-cut FAQ on the subject.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/10 09:59:07


Post by: Barnie25


 Jidmah wrote:
Note that you are no longer allowed to use the index rules for daemon princes, despite battle scribe allowing to add it.

A daemon prince must be from Codex:Chaos Daemons, Codex: Death Guard, Codex: Chaos Space Marines or Codex: Thousand Sons. None of them allow the combination of Warp Time psychic power and Death Guard legion.

Still, two daemon princes aren't the worst thing you could field, even if you are missing out on warptime.

Besides that, I have run a very similar list (1 PBC and blight lords instead of haulers), but your list might be even better. For me this has worked really well.

As for Magnus vs Mortarion, Magnus has the clear advantage of casting warptime onto himself and doing so much more reliably than any other psyker. The downside is that he has no shooting attack and little to combat hordes. Without his buffs, he is also more fragile than Mortarion, so you are more likely to lose him if you don't get first turn.

I don't think one has a clear advantage of the other, so if you like the Magnus model more and don't care for the fluff, go for it.


Rules as written the Daemon Prince and the Daemon Prince of Nurgle are not the same unit by name therefore you can field two different variants, or at least that is the pure RAW intepretation. This might be a tad cheesy but I have seen it being accepted at many large tournaments, from what I could gather.


Morty vs Magnus, it is true that Magnus has little to combat hordes but I think the list has enough flamers to try and thin out hordes. If anything I am worrying about how I will transport Morty properly without breaking him.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/10 10:48:31


Post by: Jidmah


 MinMax wrote:
Some will argue that you can use the Daemon Prince from the Index, because the Death Guard Codex entry is a different datasheet ("Daemon Prince of Nurgle", and has different options).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there was a clear-cut FAQ on the subject.

Ah, I know that argument, but no, that's not how it works.
If you have a daemon prince model, you use the chart provided in the designer's commentary to determine which datasheet you use. It then asks you if there is a datasheet in a codex, to which the answer is yes for all variants of daemon prince models.
The "Daemon Prince" is in the CSM codex., the "Daemon Prince of Nurgle" is in the DG codex, the "Daemon Prince of Tzeench" is in the TS codex and the "Daemon Prince of Chaos" is in the daemons codex.
There is zero wiggle space to assume that your daemon prince model does not a datasheet in a codex, and therefore you are not allowed to use the index for it. If you field a "Daemon Prince" you must use the CSM datasheet, which cannot have the Death Guard legion keyword.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Barnie25 wrote:
Rules as written the Daemon Prince and the Daemon Prince of Nurgle are not the same unit by name therefore you can field two different variants, or at least that is the pure RAW intepretation. This might be a tad cheesy but I have seen it being accepted at many large tournaments, from what I could gather.

"Daemon Prince" is a datasheet from the CSM codex. You can field him as part of your detachment, but you cannot give him the death guard keyword, thus loosing stratagems(unless you bring another DG detachment) and inexorable advance.

I have dug deep into this, but the main argument for the index prince has been that you want to field a "Daemon Prince" model with the death guard keywords, and the index is the only datasheet to provide that.

RAW that argument is wrong, as per the definition of keywords in the BRB (I can check the page number at home if you can't find it) clearly states that keywords are given to models by datasheets.
So when selecting the datasheet via the flowchart from the FAQ, it will always point you to one of the four codex datasheets to represent your model, since keyword on the datasheet, not on the model.

I have also found zero announcements from TOs that the index DP is still a valid choice from after the CSM codex dropped.

Morty vs Magnus, it is true that Magnus has little to combat hordes but I think the list has enough flamers to try and thin out hordes. If anything I am worrying about how I will transport Morty properly without breaking him.

IMO, the only part of Mortarion that breaks easily are the two flying nurglings carrying phosphex bombs. Besides that, he is an incredibly sturdy model. He needs a lot of space in bags/cases though, but I doubt Magnus is any better in that regard.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/10 12:04:04


Post by: lare2


 Jidmah wrote:
IMO, the only part of Mortarion that breaks easily are the two flying nurglings carrying phosphex bombs. Besides that, he is an incredibly sturdy model. He needs a lot of space in bags/cases though, but I doubt Magnus is any better in that regard.


Yep. Will second this. The chains holding them on are fantastically flimsy. Snapped one off pretty soon after getting the big lad.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/10 14:55:30


Post by: lindsay40k


If you *really* want to try to pull off DG Warptime, the only thing that has *half* a chance of passing muster is a Sorcerer on Palanquin. And even then, you’ll have to argue your case a lot and probably get a rep as a TFG.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/10 15:02:33


Post by: buddha


For warptime just sacrifice a CP for an auxiliary detachment and take a single sorc from the CSM Dex. Easy enough.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/10 15:06:00


Post by: Vortenger


 Barnie25 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Note that you are no longer allowed to use the index rules for daemon princes, despite battle scribe allowing to add it.

A daemon prince must be from Codex:Chaos Daemons, Codex: Death Guard, Codex: Chaos Space Marines or Codex: Thousand Sons. None of them allow the combination of Warp Time psychic power and Death Guard legion.


Rules as written the Daemon Prince and the Daemon Prince of Nurgle are not the same unit by name therefore you can field two different variants, or at least that is the pure RAW intepretation. This might be a tad cheesy but I have seen it being accepted at many large tournaments, from what I could gather.


Per the Index Flowsheet your interpretation is a correct one. As evidenced by Jidmah, it is not the only possible interpretation though. There appears to be no clear cut ruling on the issue. Best to clear it with an opponent pre-game and be prepared to grab out a Sorcerer on Palanquin if you require Warptime within DG. That has worked well at most events for me. ITC doesn't accept it, but most events I've seen do. DEldar also have a shady index rule that is similarly utilized at events. (Which I have yet to see rejected, silly xenos)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/10 15:13:54


Post by: Jidmah


 buddha wrote:
For warptime just sacrifice a CP for an auxiliary detachment and take a single sorc from the CSM Dex. Easy enough.


Or 40 points to add a unit of cultists an make them+sorcerer a csm patrol detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vortenger wrote:
Per the Index Flowsheet your interpretation is a correct one. As evidenced by Jidmah, it is not the only possible interpretation though. There appears to be no clear cut ruling on the issue. Best to clear it with an opponent pre-game and be prepared to grab out a Sorcerer on Palanquin if you require Warptime within DG. That has worked well at most events for me. ITC doesn't accept it, but most events I've seen do. DEldar also have a shady index rule that is similarly utilized at events. (Which I have yet to see rejected, silly xenos)


I'd like to point out that all of Vortenger's arguments have been disprove in the previous discussion on this, which was mostly based on him misrepresenting a statement made by Reece.

Fielding an index daemon prince is 100% against RAW. No matter how you interpret the rules, you can never field an index daemon prince without directly contradicting the rules.

The flow chart explicitly tells you that you must use codex datasheets if there are any. The only time you are allowed to use the index datasheet is when there is no codex datasheet to represent your model. Vortenger has previously failed to supply evidence of such a model.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/10 15:23:32


Post by: tokugawa


 Jidmah wrote:
 buddha wrote:
For warptime just sacrifice a CP for an auxiliary detachment and take a single sorc from the CSM Dex. Easy enough.


Or 40 points to add a unit of cultists an make them+sorcerer a csm patrol detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vortenger wrote:
Per the Index Flowsheet your interpretation is a correct one. As evidenced by Jidmah, it is not the only possible interpretation though. There appears to be no clear cut ruling on the issue. Best to clear it with an opponent pre-game and be prepared to grab out a Sorcerer on Palanquin if you require Warptime within DG. That has worked well at most events for me. ITC doesn't accept it, but most events I've seen do. DEldar also have a shady index rule that is similarly utilized at events. (Which I have yet to see rejected, silly xenos)


I'd like to point out that all of Vortenger's arguments have been disprove in the previous discussion on this, which was mostly based on him misrepresenting a statement made by Reece.

Fielding an index daemon prince is 100% against RAW. No matter how you interpret the rules, you can never field an index daemon prince without directly contradicting the rules.

The only time you are allowed to use the index datasheet is when there is no codex datasheet to represent your model. Vortenger has previously failed to supply evidence of such a model.

Or 160pts for a unit have two "life"s.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/10 18:51:16


Post by: lare2


 buddha wrote:
For warptime just sacrifice a CP for an auxiliary detachment and take a single sorc from the CSM Dex. Easy enough.


An auxiliary detachment doesn't give you access to CSM stratagems. You have to run a patrol, minimum. States this on the first page of the stratagems in the CSM codex.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/10 21:52:20


Post by: lindsay40k


lare2 wrote:
 buddha wrote:
For warptime just sacrifice a CP for an auxiliary detachment and take a single sorc from the CSM Dex. Easy enough.


An auxiliary detachment doesn't give you access to CSM stratagems. You have to run a patrol, minimum. States this on the first page of the stratagems in the CSM codex.


Didn’t know this, but (1) just take ten Cultists if it’s an issue, and (2) Warptime is still on the table for an auxiliary


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/10 22:46:04


Post by: buddha


lare2 wrote:
 buddha wrote:
For warptime just sacrifice a CP for an auxiliary detachment and take a single sorc from the CSM Dex. Easy enough.


An auxiliary detachment doesn't give you access to CSM stratagems. You have to run a patrol, minimum. States this on the first page of the stratagems in the CSM codex.


Warptime is a psychic power, nothing to do with strategem.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/11 10:01:08


Post by: lare2


 buddha wrote:
lare2 wrote:
 buddha wrote:
For warptime just sacrifice a CP for an auxiliary detachment and take a single sorc from the CSM Dex. Easy enough.


An auxiliary detachment doesn't give you access to CSM stratagems. You have to run a patrol, minimum. States this on the first page of the stratagems in the CSM codex.


Warptime is a psychic power, nothing to do with strategem.


True enough, my apologies. I'm just thinking of Chaos Familiar, allowing Morty to cast it on himself.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/11 11:05:07


Post by: Barnie25


Would a Renegade Knight or Knight Dominus have a bigger impact than running Morty? Basically I want to add a big centerpiece to my army but I also want it to be versatile enough that it's not pure rock paper scissors.

A regular Knight comes in at roughly the same points as Morty whereas the Dominus is almost 100 points more expensive. Running them does however make me not having to run something to get Warptime.

What choice is better?



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/11 12:41:33


Post by: blackmage


 Barnie25 wrote:
Would a Renegade Knight or Knight Dominus have a bigger impact than running Morty? Basically I want to add a big centerpiece to my army but I also want it to be versatile enough that it's not pure rock paper scissors.

A regular Knight comes in at roughly the same points as Morty whereas the Dominus is almost 100 points more expensive. Running them does however make me not having to run something to get Warptime.

What choice is better?


right now IK's are strong, stronger than any Magnus or Mortarion, see BAO lists and you ll figure. I would go for a regular double gatling IK, decent cost and more than good dakka and resilience.
Btw would be breat run both Mortarion and an Ik, might give your opponent some headache.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/11 14:26:13


Post by: lindsay40k


lare2 wrote:
 buddha wrote:
lare2 wrote:
 buddha wrote:
For warptime just sacrifice a CP for an auxiliary detachment and take a single sorc from the CSM Dex. Easy enough.


An auxiliary detachment doesn't give you access to CSM stratagems. You have to run a patrol, minimum. States this on the first page of the stratagems in the CSM codex.


Warptime is a psychic power, nothing to do with strategem.


True enough, my apologies. I'm just thinking of Chaos Familiar, allowing Morty to cast it on himself.


*flips through Codices with a curious frown*

...DAAAAAAMN

Genuinely might use this in an Epidemius list which has a Death Guard Outriders and Word Bearers Spearhead, adding Death Hex or Diabolic Strength fits it so much better than any of the DG spells

(Do not spend money on a list relying on this, it’s a loophole that is going to get shut down when someone does something controversial at a tournament with it)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/11 18:41:20


Post by: Vortenger


 Jidmah wrote:


I'd like to point out that all of Vortenger's arguments have been disprove in the previous discussion on this, which was mostly based on him misrepresenting a statement made by Reece.


To which I must counterpoint Jidmah's recalcitrance to stay on topic or civil got the thread he mentions deleted. Jidmah, you misrepresent me and not for the first time. Kindly stop. I can speak for myself, thank you. There is a current thread on B&C talking this over. Myself and other players between here at Dakka, B&C, and Warseer have used DP of Chaos at local events and regional tournaments. There is enough grey area created by battle reports of game play and a dozen threads debating to cast doubt on one internet rando's absolute opinion on the issue. So, as mentioned: the gentle-person's method of discussing with your opponent pre-game seems the most agreeable method for all parties.
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349485-are-index-demon-prince-waccess-to-warptime-legal-to-play/ for reference.

Anyways, could one not bring a Palanquin Sorcerer to achieve the same effect via Familiar without paying the CP for an Auxiliary detachment? It has Dark Hereticus natively. Patrol is good if still using Poxwalkers and the cultist stratagem. Does anyone use poxfarms competitively these days?

Is it seen as dirty to use the Index these days? That has not at all been my experience. Most folks just seem impressed I'm not showing up with a netlist.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/11 19:42:42


Post by: lindsay40k


I’ve been experimenting with poxfarms as a hybrid list. It’s not bad in smaller games. 40 DG Cultists and 40 Poxwalkers, Blightlord gives Advance rerolls and Allied Sorcerer Warptimes the Poxwalkers forwards, Cultists pop flies. No targets for anti-infantry other than the Poxwalkers, who next turn back off and pop flies & walking dead, the Cultists jump in with flamers and demand to be shot. Third turn, the Cultists pop Tide of Traitors. If you’ve avoided total unit destruction, you’ve taken zero casualties on a hoard of eighty.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/12 07:39:12


Post by: Jidmah


Vortenger wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:


I'd like to point out that all of Vortenger's arguments have been disprove in the previous discussion on this, which was mostly based on him misrepresenting a statement made by Reece.


To which I must counterpoint Jidmah's recalcitrance to stay on topic or civil got the thread he mentions deleted. Jidmah, you misrepresent me and not for the first time. Kindly stop. I can speak for myself, thank you. There is a current thread on B&C talking this over. Myself and other players between here at Dakka, B&C, and Warseer have used DP of Chaos at local events and regional tournaments. There is enough grey area created by battle reports of game play and a dozen threads debating to cast doubt on one internet rando's absolute opinion on the issue. So, as mentioned: the gentle-person's method of discussing with your opponent pre-game seems the most agreeable method for all parties.
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/349485-are-index-demon-prince-waccess-to-warptime-legal-to-play/ for reference.

Anyways, could one not bring a Palanquin Sorcerer to achieve the same effect via Familiar without paying the CP for an Auxiliary detachment? It has Dark Hereticus natively. Patrol is good if still using Poxwalkers and the cultist stratagem. Does anyone use poxfarms competitively these days?

Is it seen as dirty to use the Index these days? That has not at all been my experience. Most folks just seem impressed I'm not showing up with a netlist.


None of the threads have been deleted, all three have concluded that using and index daemon prince at the current state of game is breaking the rules.

Your link includes zero rules and just has a bunch of people with questionable insight on rules claiming it to be RAW.

You are misrepresenting the issue again. Your lying about the state of previous threads and quoting a thread from a different forum with absolutely no reference to as much as a single rule speaks for itself.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/13 03:30:05


Post by: COLD CASH


Palanquin sorc is still legal since there is no codex overwrite.
I specifically bought a balewind vortex to triple act as jumppack(well spell) palanquin sorc or with appropriate model a epidimius stand-in.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/13 04:25:19


Post by: Brother Payne


COLD CASH wrote:
Palanquin sorc is still legal since there is no codex overwrite.
I specifically bought a balewind vortex to triple act as jumppack(well spell) palanquin sorc or with appropriate model a epidimius stand-in.
Modeling for disadvantage I like it haha. I've thought about adding a Palanquin Sorc for access to Dark Hereticus but tbh I think you're better off just going with the 1KS supreme command


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/13 04:46:03


Post by: Barnie25


 Brother Payne wrote:
COLD CASH wrote:
Palanquin sorc is still legal since there is no codex overwrite.
I specifically bought a balewind vortex to triple act as jumppack(well spell) palanquin sorc or with appropriate model a epidimius stand-in.
Modeling for disadvantage I like it haha. I've thought about adding a Palanquin Sorc for access to Dark Hereticus but tbh I think you're better off just going with the 1KS supreme command



A Sorcerer with jump pack would also get access to the index powers right?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/13 05:10:35


Post by: Brother Payne


 Barnie25 wrote:
 Brother Payne wrote:
COLD CASH wrote:
Palanquin sorc is still legal since there is no codex overwrite.
I specifically bought a balewind vortex to triple act as jumppack(well spell) palanquin sorc or with appropriate model a epidimius stand-in.
Modeling for disadvantage I like it haha. I've thought about adding a Palanquin Sorc for access to Dark Hereticus but tbh I think you're better off just going with the 1KS supreme command



A Sorcerer with jump pack would also get access to the index powers right?
If the JP Sorcerer is a separate entry then yes. If it's a piece of wargear for a normal Sorcerer then no. I can't recall which it is and I don't have my index with me to check.

Edit: it's a piece of wargear so DG JP sorc is a no go for access to Dark Hereticus


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/13 06:48:34


Post by: Barnie25


 Brother Payne wrote:
 Barnie25 wrote:
 Brother Payne wrote:
COLD CASH wrote:
Palanquin sorc is still legal since there is no codex overwrite.
I specifically bought a balewind vortex to triple act as jumppack(well spell) palanquin sorc or with appropriate model a epidimius stand-in.
Modeling for disadvantage I like it haha. I've thought about adding a Palanquin Sorc for access to Dark Hereticus but tbh I think you're better off just going with the 1KS supreme command



A Sorcerer with jump pack would also get access to the index powers right?
If the JP Sorcerer is a separate entry then yes. If it's a piece of wargear for a normal Sorcerer then no. I can't recall which it is and I don't have my index with me to check.

Edit: it's a piece of wargear so DG JP sorc is a no go for access to Dark Hereticus


So only in case of the Sorcerer on Palanquin would be a seperate entry, therefore able to use Dark Hereticus powers, correct?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now a question on a totally different matter.

I am building a 1500 point list and want to include long range AT, probably in the form of a Renegade Knight.

What type of loadout would be the best for a hybrid role of tank and TAQ hunting?

The consistent 24 shots of the Avenger Gatling Cannon, assuming you're at full health will hit 16 times and wound a T7+ tank just over 5 times. Assuming all unsaved, doing 10 damage

Double RFBC have 4d6 shots, meaning 14 on average, doing 9 hits, wounding between 4 and 5 times. Assuming all unsaved, doing between 9 and 10 damage

Double Thermal Cannon have 2d6 shots, meaning 7 on average, doing rougly 4 hits, wounding around 3 times. Assuming all unsaved doing between 10 and 11 damage.

The raw numbers, on average are quite close to each other, with the main difference being that the thermal cannon has the most variance with being D6 damage but also being -4 AP.

What type of combination / loadout would be ideal?

Dual Gatling cannons with a Stormspear rocket pod, might be the most allround and reliable, getting a guaranteed 27 shots per turn (excluding the Heavy Stubber)

Gatling cannon, Thermal cannon and Stormspear rocket pod would be a close second option with less consistency but a bigger upside.

What type of combination would you guys suggest for TAC list, the lists I will be facing are not GT winning grade fyi.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/13 07:21:39


Post by: Jidmah


A practical advice would be fielding a knight with gatling cannon and thermal cannon. You can get those in one box, while you would always need to buy bits for a second gatling cannon.

From pure strength, the dual gatling cannons are probably the best option since they are good against pretty much anything. The two heavy flamers attached to them also discourage a great number of things from charging your knight.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/13 07:59:06


Post by: Barnie25


 Jidmah wrote:
A practical advice would be fielding a knight with gatling cannon and thermal cannon. You can get those in one box, while you would always need to buy bits for a second gatling cannon.

From pure strength, the dual gatling cannons are probably the best option since they are good against pretty much anything. The two heavy flamers attached to them also discourage a great number of things from charging your knight.


Not having to buy a second box for just a gatling cannon is a good enough reason for me!

Is it possible to magnitize the arms to have different gun options?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/13 08:42:33


Post by: Jidmah


 Barnie25 wrote:
So only in case of the Sorcerer on Palanquin would be a seperate entry, therefore able to use Dark Hereticus powers, correct?

Correct. Keep mind that palanquin riders are slow and warptime only reaches 3", while Mortarion usually moves 12" a turn.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/13 10:31:13


Post by: Barnie25


 Jidmah wrote:
 Barnie25 wrote:
So only in case of the Sorcerer on Palanquin would be a seperate entry, therefore able to use Dark Hereticus powers, correct?

Correct. Keep mind that palanquin riders are slow and warptime only reaches 3", while Mortarion usually moves 12" a turn.


Haha yeah, its probably not worth it. Going for a regular Chaos list is then probably best as you saw with lots of ETC lists, if you are not bringing any units that benefit from the DG special rules or hardly any I don't know if its worth trying to stick to DG main, over Chaos.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/13 10:39:41


Post by: blackmage


 Jidmah wrote:
A practical advice would be fielding a knight with gatling cannon and thermal cannon. You can get those in one box, while you would always need to buy bits for a second gatling cannon.

From pure strength, the dual gatling cannons are probably the best option since they are good against pretty much anything. The two heavy flamers attached to them also discourage a great number of things from charging your knight.

single thermal cannon is unreliable, always field a double gatling one, that's the only great advantage we have over imperial counterpart, usually i add ironstorm missile so if i need i can target hidden targets everywhere on the table.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/13 11:01:47


Post by: Jidmah


Yeah, that advice was not aimed at anything game-related at all. It's just that there is more effort and money necessary to build a dual-gun knight than one with two different weapons.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/13 11:26:29


Post by: Barnie25


blackmage wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
A practical advice would be fielding a knight with gatling cannon and thermal cannon. You can get those in one box, while you would always need to buy bits for a second gatling cannon.

From pure strength, the dual gatling cannons are probably the best option since they are good against pretty much anything. The two heavy flamers attached to them also discourage a great number of things from charging your knight.

single thermal cannon is unreliable, always field a double gatling one, that's the only great advantage we have over imperial counterpart, usually i add ironstorm missile so if i need i can target hidden targets everywhere on the table.


I don't really feel like spending 260 euro's on a single model just to be able to get the double gatling cannon, a RFBC and a gatling cannon Knight would probably be the best compromis then I think.

Jidmah wrote:Yeah, that advice was not aimed at anything game-related at all. It's just that there is more effort and money necessary to build a dual-gun knight than one with two different weapons.


I do see a lot of people posting positive things about running a Knight with different weapons. Running a melee Knight ofcourse is also possible and quite possibly fun, however I think you would need to field multiples of those to really get bang for your buck.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/14 09:45:30


Post by: Brother Payne


The double gatling knight is also the least reliant on stratagems we don't have and benefits the most from the stratagems we do have. I'd see if you can't find a second gatling online or just convert one

Edit: and yes the knight kit is very easy to magnetize


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/14 11:20:50


Post by: lindsay40k


 Barnie25 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Barnie25 wrote:
So only in case of the Sorcerer on Palanquin would be a seperate entry, therefore able to use Dark Hereticus powers, correct?

Correct. Keep mind that palanquin riders are slow and warptime only reaches 3", while Mortarion usually moves 12" a turn.


Haha yeah, its probably not worth it. Going for a regular Chaos list is then probably best as you saw with lots of ETC lists, if you are not bringing any units that benefit from the DG special rules or hardly any I don't know if its worth trying to stick to DG main, over Chaos.


Bear in mind the Sorcerer can advance at least 6” and Mortarion’s base is 4” long. Start them together and Warptime is reaching Morty. If you’re starting Morty near a tree to Advance and charge (HAHAHA OMG), then you might want a Blightbringer to maximise Sorcerer’s reach (and move it *first*) just in case Morty moves 18”.

Re modelling: my own Palanquin Sorcerer - a hangover from 7ed Summoning requiring lots of wounds to lose - is a Blightlord with loads of Nurglings. Easy conversion and WYSIWYG enough.
Spoiler:


Though I do stress that recruiting one of these is relying on a loophole-by-omission that I wouldn’t bet on lasting more than a year, after which it’ll be a super niche obligate footslogger that might have synergy with an Epidemius list (as it has the DAEMON keyword)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you are trying Morty-Tree-advance-Warptime-charge, I recommend adding a Defiler. If Morty moves 18”, Warptime that instead and get both of them in your opponent’s face

Bonus: ally in Fiends of Slaanesh and ban opponent from falling back
Spoiler:



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/14 16:50:41


Post by: blackmage


 Barnie25 wrote:
blackmage wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
A practical advice would be fielding a knight with gatling cannon and thermal cannon. You can get those in one box, while you would always need to buy bits for a second gatling cannon.

From pure strength, the dual gatling cannons are probably the best option since they are good against pretty much anything. The two heavy flamers attached to them also discourage a great number of things from charging your knight.

single thermal cannon is unreliable, always field a double gatling one, that's the only great advantage we have over imperial counterpart, usually i add ironstorm missile so if i need i can target hidden targets everywhere on the table.


I don't really feel like spending 260 euro's on a single model just to be able to get the double gatling cannon, a RFBC and a gatling cannon Knight would probably be the best compromis then I think.

Jidmah wrote:Yeah, that advice was not aimed at anything game-related at all. It's just that there is more effort and money necessary to build a dual-gun knight than one with two different weapons.


I do see a lot of people posting positive things about running a Knight with different weapons. Running a melee Knight ofcourse is also possible and quite possibly fun, however I think you would need to field multiples of those to really get bang for your buck.

why 260? you dont need two IK's toi get two gatlings, btw for me double gatling is the most reliable and damgerous knight you can field with chaos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:
Yeah, that advice was not aimed at anything game-related at all. It's just that there is more effort and money necessary to build a dual-gun knight than one with two different weapons.

you find lot of weapons sprues in internet


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/14 20:18:02


Post by: Spiky Norman


If you need extra Avenger Gatlingcannons for a chaos Knight, the Hades autocannons from the Forgefiend kit will do fine. They are usually a lot easier to get a hold of too.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/14 20:21:48


Post by: buddha


Spiky Norman wrote:
If you need extra Avenger Gatlingcannons for a chaos Knight, the Hades autocannons from the Forgefiend kit will do fine. They are usually a lot easier to get a hold of too.


This. Buy one knight as normal and one forgefiend/maulerfiend box. Make a maulerfiend (better anyway) and use the two hades autocannons for the Knight. The RFBC and Thermal cannon mount are easily connected with the hades autocannon as I've done so myself.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/15 05:31:56


Post by: Brother Payne


 buddha wrote:
Spiky Norman wrote:
If you need extra Avenger Gatlingcannons for a chaos Knight, the Hades autocannons from the Forgefiend kit will do fine. They are usually a lot easier to get a hold of too.


This. Buy one knight as normal and one forgefiend/maulerfiend box. Make a maulerfiend (better anyway) and use the two hades autocannons for the Knight. The RFBC and Thermal cannon mount are easily connected with the hades autocannon as I've done so myself.
How does the scale compare between the avenger and the forgefiend gatling?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/15 05:54:09


Post by: Jidmah


 blackmage wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Yeah, that advice was not aimed at anything game-related at all. It's just that there is more effort and money necessary to build a dual-gun knight than one with two different weapons.

you find lot of weapons sprues in internet


That's what "money and effort" is.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/15 08:33:43


Post by: Barnie25


Does a Blightlord Terminator bomb have a place (again) in Death Guard lists? After seeing the succes of them at BAO.

What type of list would be best served by the inclusion of such an unit.

Would it be viable at 1500 points?

You could run a couple of DP's / PBC's, some form of cultists / PM's. Perhaps Bloat Drones.

10 Blightlords with Bubotic axes, 2 Blight Launchers and 2 Flails clock in at 473 points.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/15 10:17:56


Post by: blackmage


a list with threat saturation... at 1500 you might take out the IK and blightspawn


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:
 blackmage wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Yeah, that advice was not aimed at anything game-related at all. It's just that there is more effort and money necessary to build a dual-gun knight than one with two different weapons.

you find lot of weapons sprues in internet


That's what "money and effort" is.

no efforts no gain, then keep play a suboptimal IK build and enjoy, is not mandatory play a double gatling.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/15 10:35:41


Post by: Barnie25


no efforts no gain, then keep play a suboptimal IK build and enjoy, is not mandatory play a double gatling.


Is there no other build that is optimal besides the double gatling variant? I have also seen multiple ETC lists running 3 Melee knights. Would double of any of the other guns be too high variance with regards to the number of shots you are getting?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/15 12:40:45


Post by: Jidmah


You did the math yourself. Against vehicle you lose next to nothing by running the RFBC compared to the gatling cannon, since it also has a heavy stubber instead of the heavy flamer. The thermal cannon is a lot weaker when it comes to shooting infantry.

I saw an avenger gatling gun go for 25€ on ebay, it's your call whether that's worth a slightly less random result.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/15 12:54:08


Post by: Barnie25


Yeah, I also saw that the gatlings were not that expensive, the best way is probably to get two knights and make a melee knight and an gatling knight, especially if I were to order from Wayland games, I would save up quite some money compared to paying regular retail price here in the Netherlands.

In total it would be more expensive but you would then get a lot of bang for your buck straight away.

I might just in the end, end up buying either Mortarion or Magnus and some support elements because I like the models more. The internal struggle between what looks cool and what works the best is always strong. Thanks for all the help any how.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/15 13:10:55


Post by: buddha


 Brother Payne wrote:
 buddha wrote:
Spiky Norman wrote:
If you need extra Avenger Gatlingcannons for a chaos Knight, the Hades autocannons from the Forgefiend kit will do fine. They are usually a lot easier to get a hold of too.


This. Buy one knight as normal and one forgefiend/maulerfiend box. Make a maulerfiend (better anyway) and use the two hades autocannons for the Knight. The RFBC and Thermal cannon mount are easily connected with the hades autocannon as I've done so myself.
How does the scale compare between the avenger and the forgefiend gatling?


Going to be difficult to not make inadvertent innuendo but it's about the same width but a few inches longer.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/15 16:44:53


Post by: Captain Garius


If all you want is a sorcerer with DH powers I take one in my Outrider with Bloat Drones. It is a Nurgle Detachment and I get my Terminator Sorcerer and the Bloat Drones don't care about losing Inexorable Advance, and it isn't a DG detachment because my battalion is. Problem solved. Pox Walkers also don't care about losing the DG specific stuff if you want it to be a Battalion instead of Outrider/Spearhead (if you were running 3 PBC's).


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/15 16:48:02


Post by: blackmage


soon i have two incoming league tournaments, i would try a small variant of Don Hooson list (juts adding 19 poxwalkers and take off blightspawn+ wings on Dp) but seems like it need some "training" to be played properly, or keep super heavy+spearhead like original list and play a Nurgle demon battalion (poxbringer+spoilpox 9 nurglings and 30 plaguebearers), i will not have lot of time to playtest before each tournaments so im unsure what to bring.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/17 11:51:41


Post by: lare2


 Captain Garius wrote:
If all you want is a sorcerer with DH powers I take one in my Outrider with Bloat Drones. It is a Nurgle Detachment and I get my Terminator Sorcerer and the Bloat Drones don't care about losing Inexorable Advance, and it isn't a DG detachment because my battalion is. Problem solved. Pox Walkers also don't care about losing the DG specific stuff if you want it to be a Battalion instead of Outrider/Spearhead (if you were running 3 PBC's).


So simple and yet so good. You've just opened my eyes mate.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/19 20:46:56


Post by: Barnie25


A trio of Blight Haulers buffed with Miasma, Warptime and Prescience, would that be a good firebase for the points they cost? Not necessarily for a tournament winning list but could it serve as an AT element for a semi competitive list?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/19 20:52:54


Post by: Jidmah


They don't need warptime at all, since they move 10" and then shoot everything at 12".


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/19 21:05:16


Post by: Barnie25


Yeah Warptime probably isn't needed, maybe death hex is a better pair, especially when trying to down an imperial knight.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/20 09:14:36


Post by: blackmage


they are a decent tarpit unit, but if you plan to challenge with them IK's well good luck, they shoot too few to worry a Ik and as soon as you lost one they hit on 4's so become pretty useless


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/20 09:34:11


Post by: Jidmah


Fully buffed with a re-roll ones aura nearby, they do no more than 8 damage to a knight. Death Hex doubles that damage obviously, but it's not the most reliable power.

However, three of them could render a knight unable to fall back from in combat, while it can only hit them on 5+ with miasma.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/20 09:58:57


Post by: Brother Payne


Im really not a fan of the haulers. You're much better off with ranged helbrutes or helvrines for long-range fire support imo as both of those can also move and shoot without penalty, but are heaps more pt efficient.

The only thing the haulers have going for them imo is being able to stack prescience, locus of virulence, blades of putrefaction, and virulent blessing for some decent melee but they're way too expensive to take them just for that and those powers have better targets anyway. They might have a place in an infantry heavy list but even then probably not and that's really not a great way to run DG anyway


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/20 10:33:06


Post by: Jidmah


In my opinion the biggest advantage haulers have over helbrutes is 5++ and DG. Helbrutes tend to just get picked off by anti-tank weapons if there is no other target for them (Mortarion), while haulers can resist a good deal of shooting before going down, since they are only marginally less durable than blight drones.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/20 11:00:15


Post by: Barnie25


As pure gun platforms they are not the most efficient probably, but they are however, or so I look at them, a good unit to apply all the different buffs to which we have access to when we ally with Thousand Sons.

A Pair of Blight Drones and a Pair of Deamon Princes with a trio of Blight Haulers backed up by Ahriman provide a good anvil to the hammer that is either a Knight, Mortarion or Magnus.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/20 18:50:11


Post by: blackmage


if you play Mortarion or Magnus against IK good luck they cancel them in 1 single turn, actually they are the worst unit to send against IK's, imho


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/20 19:15:23


Post by: Barnie25


 blackmage wrote:
if you play Mortarion or Magnus against IK good luck they cancel them in 1 single turn, actually they are the worst unit to send against IK's, imho


There have been a number of players that have been succesful running our bigs, or a knight themselves. I think if you run 1, you should also have other elements that are just as scary, in the same vein. If a IK player has to go against a Magnus, there is a good chance he will either kill it or make the knight rather useless if the Chaos player has turn one.

Also we don't know what the FAQ will bring next month, there is a good chance the knights will be toned down in terms of power level in some shape or form I think.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/20 19:51:29


Post by: blackmage


if you build a list with hope to have turn 1, good for you but im used play competitive matches and i cant consider bring a model which NEED first turn almost every time i play, btw i can agree maybe we will see some "nerf" to IK


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/20 21:59:30


Post by: Jidmah


Well, he only stated like twenty times that his meta is not very competitive


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/20 22:25:14


Post by: blackmage


 Jidmah wrote:
Well, he only stated like twenty times that his meta is not very competitive

if it is not very competitive he can bring any list/model he likes, without worry about competitiveness, i was trying to explain how things works if you are going to build a competitive list... period


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/21 04:50:14


Post by: Jidmah


The world isn't black and white like that.
In my meta there are zero top tournament lists running around, and I don't have to worry about knight armies because no one plays more than a single knight and two armingers - but I still get my but handed if I don't bring proper anti-tank or anti-horde solutions because there are tanks and hordes in almost every game.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/22 14:00:15


Post by: lindsay40k


Myphitic Blight-haulers vs Helbrutes etc


Whilst this is specifically Death Guard tactica, with all this talk of allies I feel it’s worth noting that MBH have decent Epidemius synergy. If you’re bringing a Battalion based around Nurglings, they have decent odds on fishing for a KO (and Epi himself is a competent counter to modest deep insertion forces)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/22 15:20:06


Post by: gwarsh41


 lindsay40k wrote:
Myphitic Blight-haulers vs Helbrutes etc


Whilst this is specifically Death Guard tactica, with all this talk of allies I feel it’s worth noting that MBH have decent Epidemius synergy. If you’re bringing a Battalion based around Nurglings, they have decent odds on fishing for a KO (and Epi himself is a competent counter to modest deep insertion forces)


Yeah, Epidemius is pretty scary in CC this edition. He went from wet blanket to psuedo daemon prince, especially with his own buffs maxed out. I've had a good amount of people toss some troops at him, or one lone terminator, expecting the old epidemius, and then get shut down by the new one.
Death Guard / Daemons for a pseudo nurgle daemonkin list is a very fun way to play. I've ran it a few times and always had a ton of fun. Daemons can bring all the CP you could ever want, as well as a ton of area denial and harassment units, while DG can bring some very useful daemon engines and heavy hitters. Toss in Decimators if you want so extra fun. Bring CSM with oblits if the points are high enough. Epidemius in apoc games is silly good.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/22 18:01:13


Post by: Barnie25


Coming in at roughly the same points do you prefer double butcher cannon Contemptors or Helvarines for long range AT?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/22 19:35:41


Post by: gwarsh41


I think Helvarines have made butcher cannon decimators and contemptors a little obsolete. The extra range that helvarines get is nothing to scoff at.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/22 19:36:54


Post by: blackmage


helverins for me are superior, 3 straight damage 2+wounds 14" mov. and 60" range makes big difference


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/22 19:48:24


Post by: Niiru


 gwarsh41 wrote:
I think Helvarines have made butcher cannon decimators and contemptors a little obsolete. The extra range that helvarines get is nothing to scoff at.



Is there any room for a melee based Armiger?

The thermal spear and reaper chain cleaver just... -scream- chaos to me.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/22 19:51:38


Post by: darthryan


Rule of cool always makes room for anything that looks good


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/22 19:54:04


Post by: Niiru


darthryan wrote:
Rule of cool always makes room for anything that looks good


Haha, yes, I might make/convert one just for this reason anyway, I just mean for the points vs say... a melee helbrute or contemptor etc, if the Armiger is a decent option.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/27 22:04:31


Post by: Atlatl Jones


I was about to buy a leviathan dread, but now I’m wondering whether I’d be better off buying a knight and putting two Gatling cannons on it. I can’t figure out which would be better for the points or tactically more useful though.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/28 06:28:57


Post by: elk@work


Atlatl Jones wrote:
I was about to buy a leviathan dread, but now I’m wondering whether I’d be better off buying a knight and putting two Gatling cannons on it. I can’t figure out which would be better for the points or tactically more useful though.

key factor are keywords, not stats/weapons. Levy has Heretic Astartes and can take Death Guard, Knight don't. So Levy can be made a synergetic part of your army (pure DG or DG+CSM), while Knight is kind of on its own which is not exactly bad (but I often miss that Miasma or aura rerolls on him). I've got both (Levy with double butchers and a double-gatling Knight) and like both. From army list building perspective, I'd rather go with a single Levy (which fits anywhere in DG army) or at least 3 knights (gatling knight + 2 helverings) in separate super-heavy detachment


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/31 10:14:39


Post by: lare2


Quick question - used to know the answer but forgotten and can't remember where to look.

Do our Leviathans benefit form Inexorable Advance? Pretty sure they do but it's been a while since I ran one.

Cheers in advance.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/31 10:34:49


Post by: elk@work


lare2 wrote:
Quick question - used to know the answer but forgotten and can't remember where to look.

Do our Leviathans benefit form Inexorable Advance? Pretty sure they do but it's been a while since I ran one.

Cheers in advance.

they do, as per FAQ they have HELLBRUTE keyword


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/31 11:26:03


Post by: lare2


 elk@work wrote:
lare2 wrote:
Quick question - used to know the answer but forgotten and can't remember where to look.

Do our Leviathans benefit form Inexorable Advance? Pretty sure they do but it's been a while since I ran one.

Cheers in advance.

they do, as per FAQ they have HELLBRUTE keyword


Awesome - thanks!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/08/31 18:45:30


Post by: Aleister_Dakka


Hello there,

I am considering anti-armor options for Death Guard. I know our options are few... I've been running 5x Blightlords with Flail + 4x Combi-Melta along with a Terminator Lord with Combi-Melta. I took a Magnus down to 4 wounds in one round, so it works, but against something like Imperial Knights or a bunch of Tau suits I seem to need more.

My list otherwise will be 3x Daemon Princes (talons) and 3x Foetid Bloat Drones (spitters), with remaining points (after the anti-armor) going to whatever troops I can afford for a Batallion (probably 3x 10 Poxwalkers). I plan on trying to zoom into my opponent's face ASAP while my few troops cap objectives.

These are the anti-armor options I have come up with so far:

1. 1x Leviathan Dread (either double butcher or butcher + drill since we have Inexorable Advance), with a PBC (with spitters, I'm not sold on the entropy cannons with BS 4+) replacing one of my Foetid Bloat Drones.
2. 2x Armigers with Meltas
3. Mortarion, probably with a Hereticus Discipline Sorceror for Warp Time (likely Supreme Command Detachment).

These 3 options seem to leave me with just enough points to squeeze in some troops for CP/objectives, or with options 1 or 2 I could forgo troops and still use my Blightlords as well, either with melta or plasma (I love Bligthlords so much). I'd like to have my list be as TAC as possible while not being rolled by Imperial Knights, if possible. Which option would you prefer? Or, do you have an option that you like better? Thanks!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/02 08:18:34


Post by: elk@work


A couple of levies with butcher cannons or a levy plus two helverings armigers will do the job most times, unless you face all-armour list like knights. Having threat saturation is a thing, though


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/02 08:42:53


Post by: Barnie25


Yesterday I played my first game in years. I 20-0'd my opponent in a 1000 point kill points mission. It was brutal and fun.
I quickly gathered that the local play group did not play to WAAC. Hard lists were not disincentived but going full on cheese would definitely not increase my popularity in the group.

As such I have created a 2000 point list running the models I currently have. I tried to weave close combat elements into the list as well as some short to medium range AT.

The idea behind the list is for the flying DPs alongside the Bloat-Drones to fly up the flank, threatening infantry and light tanks.

The Armiger and Leviathan are there to be a threat center field with their combibation of CC prowess and shooting. The DP on foot will accompany them.

Ahriman is a general support piece while the plague marines with the lord are the objective sitters with medium ranged guns.

What do you guys think?

The list
Spoiler:

+++ Death Guard2k (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) +++

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) ++

+ HQ +

Ahriman: Black Staff of Ahriman, Death Hex, Doombolt, Frag & Krak grenades, Inferno Bolt Pistol, Prescience, Smite

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: Gaze of Fate, Hellforged sword, Malefic talon, Smite, Weaver of Fates

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: Hellforged sword, Malefic talon, Smite, Wings

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades

Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Hellforged sword, Malefic talon, Smite, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

+ Troops +

Plague Marines
. . Plague Champion: Blight Grenades, Krak grenade
. . . . Codex: Boltgun, Plague knife
. . 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 2x Blight Grenades, 2x Boltgun, 2x Krak Grenades, 2x Plague knife
. . Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher, Krak grenade, Plague knife
. . Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher, Krak grenade, Plague knife

Plague Marines
. . Plague Champion: Blight Grenades, Krak grenade
. . . . Codex: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. . 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun: 2x Blight Grenades, 2x Boltgun, 2x Krak Grenades, 2x Plague knife
. . Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight Grenades, Krak grenade, Plague knife, Plasma gun
. . Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight Grenades, Blight launcher, Krak grenade, Plague knife

Poxwalkers
. . 10x Poxwalker: 10x Improvised weapon

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Questor Traitoris) ++

+ Lord of War +

Renegade Armigers
. . Renegade Armiger: Meltagun, Thermal spear and Reaper chain-cleaver

++ Battalion Detachment (Chaos - FW Heretic Astartes) ++

+ Heavy Support +

Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought: Butcher cannon array, 2x Hellflamer
. . Hellforged siege claw: Meltagun

++ Total: [104 PL, 1999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/02 11:37:50


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


Aleister_Dakka wrote:
Hello there,

I am considering anti-armor options for Death Guard. I know our options are few... I've been running 5x Blightlords with Flail + 4x Combi-Melta along with a Terminator Lord with Combi-Melta. I took a Magnus down to 4 wounds in one round, so it works, but against something like Imperial Knights or a bunch of Tau suits I seem to need more.

My list otherwise will be 3x Daemon Princes (talons) and 3x Foetid Bloat Drones (spitters), with remaining points (after the anti-armor) going to whatever troops I can afford for a Batallion (probably 3x 10 Poxwalkers). I plan on trying to zoom into my opponent's face ASAP while my few troops cap objectives.

These are the anti-armor options I have come up with so far:

1. 1x Leviathan Dread (either double butcher or butcher + drill since we have Inexorable Advance), with a PBC (with spitters, I'm not sold on the entropy cannons with BS 4+) replacing one of my Foetid Bloat Drones.
2. 2x Armigers with Meltas
3. Mortarion, probably with a Hereticus Discipline Sorceror for Warp Time (likely Supreme Command Detachment).

These 3 options seem to leave me with just enough points to squeeze in some troops for CP/objectives, or with options 1 or 2 I could forgo troops and still use my Blightlords as well, either with melta or plasma (I love Bligthlords so much). I'd like to have my list be as TAC as possible while not being rolled by Imperial Knights, if possible. Which option would you prefer? Or, do you have an option that you like better? Thanks!


I'm not sure you'll need more anti-armour with 3 princes in the list already It's usually my prince that goes after the big targets and brings them down, I'm using him with a sword, though, which has a bit more damage.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/02 13:24:39


Post by: blackmage


if opponent has good screening units and long range firepower pretty hard take down many veichles with just Dp's


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/03 11:31:31


Post by: Brymm


Just a quick update: played Ultramarines using the Michigan GT tournament primer mission #1. Got turn 1 and used giant LOS blocking terrain to screen Morty vs Killshot Preds, got first turn anyways and Miasma'd him too. Lost a bloat drone and another severely damaged on bottom of one. Turn 2 had my Prince, Morty and my deepstriking Terminator Lord making his Deep Strike 9 inch charge... Death to the False Emperor indeed.

First game in a while without Blight Haulers and frankly didn't miss them. Plague Marines and Pox Walkers held objectives and my forward forces made it pretty easily into the thick of it. Good stuff!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/03 12:52:42


Post by: lare2


If I ran a Heretic Astartes Outrider detachment consisting of a chaos sorcerer and 3 FBD, would I gain access to the Chaos Space Marine stratagems?

I can't see why this wouldn't be possible but thought it best to check first. Thought it would be a cheap way to access Chaos Familiar, allowing Morty to warptime himself.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/03 13:31:46


Post by: lindsay40k


lare2 wrote:
If I ran a Heretic Astartes Outrider detachment consisting of a chaos sorcerer and 3 FBD, would I gain access to the Chaos Space Marine stratagems?

I can't see why this wouldn't be possible but thought it best to check first. Thought it would be a cheap way to access Chaos Familiar, allowing Morty to warptime himself.


No, the Detachment would have to *exclusively* consist of units with the faction keywords of the seven not-got-their-own-Codex Legions (or Renegade Chapters, or Fallen). Buuuut such a Detachment *would* open up using CF to give DG Psykers WT - until an FAQ closes the loophole.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/03 15:33:20


Post by: lare2


 lindsay40k wrote:
lare2 wrote:
If I ran a Heretic Astartes Outrider detachment consisting of a chaos sorcerer and 3 FBD, would I gain access to the Chaos Space Marine stratagems?

I can't see why this wouldn't be possible but thought it best to check first. Thought it would be a cheap way to access Chaos Familiar, allowing Morty to warptime himself.


No, the Detachment would have to *exclusively* consist of units with the faction keywords of the seven not-got-their-own-Codex Legions (or Renegade Chapters, or Fallen). Buuuut such a Detachment *would* open up using CF to give DG Psykers WT - until an FAQ closes the loophole.


Thanks for the quick response. That's a crying shame. Looks like I'm back to running Alpha Legion cultists in a patrol.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/04 01:01:34


Post by: DudleyGrim


Hello everyone, my friend is selling me his Death Guard, so I am thinking of trying out some sort of nurgle soup list. I am wondering if any more experienced players could tell me if this would be a good set up for an army? I normally play Necrons, but have been itching to try something different.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [31 PL, 563pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Wings
. Nurgle: Fleshy Abundance

Spoilpox Scrivener [4 PL, 75pts]

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 200pts]: Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 24x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [33 PL, 600pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Questor Traitoris) [43 PL, 837pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Renegade Armigers [9 PL, 174pts]
. Renegade Armiger: Heavy stubber, Two armiger autocannons

Renegade Armigers [9 PL, 174pts]
. Renegade Armiger: Heavy stubber, Two armiger autocannons

Renegade Knight [25 PL, 489pts]: Heavy stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer

++ Total: [107 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


So a couple questions on a set up like this, would the Daemons battalion Daemon Prince be able to cast fleshy abundance on the Plagueburst Crawlers? Are the nurglings and Plaguebearers enough units to hold objectives? And lastly, I have never run a Lord of War before, but my friend who plays Ad Mech just added a knight to his army and I just fell in love with the model, but is it TOO much in a 2,000 point army? I want to play something strong, so I have a chance of winning, but I don't want to lose friends or hurt feelings over it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/04 02:39:54


Post by: lindsay40k


That list looks viable to me. Casting FA on a Heretic Astartes Daemon Nurgle unit is perfectly valid. You might find yourself wanting a tree, so as to allow the crawlers to fall back and shoot all their weapons and the Plaguebearers to advance and charge. Main obstacle you might encounter is armies that are heavy on the armour - but you’ll probably be able to crack most nuts.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/04 08:46:58


Post by: blackmage


DudleyGrim wrote:
Hello everyone, my friend is selling me his Death Guard, so I am thinking of trying out some sort of nurgle soup list. I am wondering if any more experienced players could tell me if this would be a good set up for an army? I normally play Necrons, but have been itching to try something different.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [31 PL, 563pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Wings
. Nurgle: Fleshy Abundance

Spoilpox Scrivener [4 PL, 75pts]

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 200pts]: Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 24x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [33 PL, 600pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Questor Traitoris) [43 PL, 837pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Renegade Armigers [9 PL, 174pts]
. Renegade Armiger: Heavy stubber, Two armiger autocannons

Renegade Armigers [9 PL, 174pts]
. Renegade Armiger: Heavy stubber, Two armiger autocannons

Renegade Knight [25 PL, 489pts]: Heavy stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer

++ Total: [107 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


So a couple questions on a set up like this, would the Daemons battalion Daemon Prince be able to cast fleshy abundance on the Plagueburst Crawlers? Are the nurglings and Plaguebearers enough units to hold objectives? And lastly, I have never run a Lord of War before, but my friend who plays Ad Mech just added a knight to his army and I just fell in love with the model, but is it TOO much in a 2,000 point army? I want to play something strong, so I have a chance of winning, but I don't want to lose friends or hurt feelings over it.

the list is good, just couple of changes, you can run a poxbringer with miasma, you play just 30 Pb better preserve them and +1 str make the difference, Nurgle Dp with corruption so you can deal with every target easier, i play lately same identical list, -2 to hit Pb annoying nurglings and good mobility/firepower only thing that list miss is a gnarlmaw but not easy to fit in.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/04 21:03:24


Post by: DudleyGrim


 blackmage wrote:
DudleyGrim wrote:
Hello everyone, my friend is selling me his Death Guard, so I am thinking of trying out some sort of nurgle soup list. I am wondering if any more experienced players could tell me if this would be a good set up for an army? I normally play Necrons, but have been itching to try something different.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [31 PL, 563pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon, Wings
. Nurgle: Fleshy Abundance

Spoilpox Scrivener [4 PL, 75pts]

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 200pts]: Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 24x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [33 PL, 600pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Questor Traitoris) [43 PL, 837pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Renegade Armigers [9 PL, 174pts]
. Renegade Armiger: Heavy stubber, Two armiger autocannons

Renegade Armigers [9 PL, 174pts]
. Renegade Armiger: Heavy stubber, Two armiger autocannons

Renegade Knight [25 PL, 489pts]: Heavy stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer

++ Total: [107 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


So a couple questions on a set up like this, would the Daemons battalion Daemon Prince be able to cast fleshy abundance on the Plagueburst Crawlers? Are the nurglings and Plaguebearers enough units to hold objectives? And lastly, I have never run a Lord of War before, but my friend who plays Ad Mech just added a knight to his army and I just fell in love with the model, but is it TOO much in a 2,000 point army? I want to play something strong, so I have a chance of winning, but I don't want to lose friends or hurt feelings over it.

the list is good, just couple of changes, you can run a poxbringer with miasma, you play just 30 Pb better preserve them and +1 str make the difference, Nurgle Dp with corruption so you can deal with every target easier, i play lately same identical list, -2 to hit Pb annoying nurglings and good mobility/firepower only thing that list miss is a gnarlmaw but not easy to fit in.


So do you only run 1 Daemon Prince in your list? Or are you suggesting I drop the Scrivener for a Poxbringer? Good to know the army I want to build is strong, but has actual weaknesses so as not to be too OP. Lastly, could you post or PM me your list? I am curious about your set up.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/04 21:14:02


Post by: blackmage


i run 2 princes (1 nurgle demons and 1 Dg ) and 1 poxbringer, with just 30 Pb poxbringer with miasma works better

my list is this is very close to your and it s already tournament tested

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [31 PL, 578pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle

Rewards of Chaos (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: Corruption, Hellforged sword, Wings
. Nurgle: Virulent Blessing

Poxbringer [4 PL, 70pts]: Miasma of Pestilence

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 220pts]: Instrument of Chaos, 29x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Questor Traitoris) [43 PL, 821pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Renegade Armigers [9 PL, 174pts]
. Renegade Armiger: Heavy stubber, Two armiger autocannons

Renegade Armigers [9 PL, 174pts]
. Renegade Armiger: Heavy stubber, Two armiger autocannons

Renegade Knight [25 PL, 473pts]: Heavy stubber
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [33 PL, 600pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

++ Total: [107 PL, 1999pts] ++



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/04 21:22:11


Post by: DudleyGrim


hmmm yes that list IS very similar. Do you ever miss the missile pod on your renegade knight, or do you find the 5 additional plaguebearers well worth it?

Edit - Also noticed you aren't using the icon, after a second glance it really DOES seem kinda unlikely to be useful.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/04 22:37:33


Post by: Blueguy203


Do you find that the Daemon princes are helpful to your list? I cant but think that getting wizards who can cast twice would be more useful than a close combat prince plus they would be cheaper. i am running a list similar to yours but trying to justify bringing daemon princes.

Spoiler:
 blackmage wrote:
i run 2 princes (1 nurgle demons and 1 Dg ) and 1 poxbringer, with just 30 Pb poxbringer with miasma works better

my list is this is very close to your and it s already tournament tested


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [31 PL, 578pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle

Rewards of Chaos (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: Corruption, Hellforged sword, Wings
. Nurgle: Virulent Blessing

Poxbringer [4 PL, 70pts]: Miasma of Pestilence

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 220pts]: Instrument of Chaos, 29x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Questor Traitoris) [43 PL, 821pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Renegade Armigers [9 PL, 174pts]
. Renegade Armiger: Heavy stubber, Two armiger autocannons

Renegade Armigers [9 PL, 174pts]
. Renegade Armiger: Heavy stubber, Two armiger autocannons

Renegade Knight [25 PL, 473pts]: Heavy stubber
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [33 PL, 600pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

++ Total: [107 PL, 1999pts] ++



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/04 23:13:49


Post by: blackmage


DudleyGrim wrote:
hmmm yes that list IS very similar. Do you ever miss the missile pod on your renegade knight, or do you find the 5 additional plaguebearers well worth it?

Edit - Also noticed you aren't using the icon, after a second glance it really DOES seem kinda unlikely to be useful.

i prefer the 5 pb, missiles are useful but that model shot already a lot, icon honestly without sloppity , for 15pts works 1/6 times doesn't worth , if you have spared 15pts of course use it, you can use the stratagem over it


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blueguy203 wrote:
Do you find that the Daemon princes are helpful to your list? I cant but think that getting wizards who can cast twice would be more useful than a close combat prince plus they would be cheaper. i am running a list similar to yours but trying to justify bringing daemon princes.

Spoiler:
 blackmage wrote:
i run 2 princes (1 nurgle demons and 1 Dg ) and 1 poxbringer, with just 30 Pb poxbringer with miasma works better

my list is this is very close to your and it s already tournament tested


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [31 PL, 578pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle

Rewards of Chaos (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: Corruption, Hellforged sword, Wings
. Nurgle: Virulent Blessing

Poxbringer [4 PL, 70pts]: Miasma of Pestilence

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 220pts]: Instrument of Chaos, 29x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Questor Traitoris) [43 PL, 821pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Renegade Armigers [9 PL, 174pts]
. Renegade Armiger: Heavy stubber, Two armiger autocannons

Renegade Armigers [9 PL, 174pts]
. Renegade Armiger: Heavy stubber, Two armiger autocannons

Renegade Knight [25 PL, 473pts]: Heavy stubber
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [33 PL, 600pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

++ Total: [107 PL, 1999pts] ++


well Dp's can hurt many things in CaC sorcerers cant , the corruption+virulent blessing Dp hit on 2+ rerolling 1's and wound anything at 2+ rerolling one (with virulent active), at 5 to wound deal d3+1 damage and at 6 to wound deal d3x2 +1 so he is effective, the 2nd Dp baby sitting PBC until something get in your backfield then you have a decent countercharge, you can play a plaguecaster with arch contaminator but he doesn't give you the CaC power you might need, dp's are one of best chaos units, fast durable hit pretty hard and have psychic powers, if you want have more psychich support you can swap super heavy det with a Ts supreme command (3xDp's or Ahriman and 2 Dp's), but for how that list works i guess 2 Dp's are enough, it's a list which slowly grind the opponent down, forcing him to commit lot of resources trying to remove your units and in the meanwhile something else damage him, 30 pb at -2 to hit are a pain in the ass to remove and they can easily control the middle of the table and you cant ignore them or they score points with objectives. Ik and helverins stay in your backfield throwing lot of quality fire and when needed Ik join the melee , you have 8 flamers to deal with hordes, maybe it is not a super top list but properly played is a real pain to deal with, i made 2nd place in a 30 men tournament, with a 3-0 score, beating nids, de+eldar and in final match another Tz demon+Dg, i missed 1st place for bunch of points.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/05 02:34:12


Post by: DudleyGrim


Yeah I think the extra PBs and Poxwalker might be worth it. Looks like I can get a good start on my list with the start collecting Nurgle Daemons box.

Thank you very much blackmage for letting me pick your brain!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/05 08:18:11


Post by: blackmage


DudleyGrim wrote:
Yeah I think the extra PBs and Poxwalker might be worth it. Looks like I can get a good start on my list with the start collecting Nurgle Daemons box.

Thank you very much blackmage for letting me pick your brain!

end of september and start of October i have two more tournaments i will let you know what happen. Have fun with Nurgle is a good army to paint and play.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/08 02:02:39


Post by: adamsouza


This what I've come up with. Is there anything I could have done better ?

There is Typhus with a big blob of poxwalkers. A huge mob of Plague Marines with Biologus backup of rain 20d6 Blight Grenades.

Brigade Detachment Chaos - Death Guard
[119 PL, 1995pts]


+ HQ +
Chaos Lord Bolt pistol, Chainsword
Lord of Contagion Manreaper
Typhus

+ Troops +
Chaos Cultists x10
Chaos Cultists x10
Chaos Cultists x10
Chaos Cultists x10
Plague Marines x20
Poxwalkers x20

+ Elites +
Biologus Putrifier
Biologus Putrifier
Noxious Blightbringer

+ Fast Attack +
Chaos Spawn Chaos Spawn
Foetid Bloat-drone 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe
Foetid Bloat-drone 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

+ Heavy Support +
Defiler Defiler scourge, Reaper autocannon
Plagueburst Crawler 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/08 02:11:58


Post by: buddha


 adamsouza wrote:
This what I've come up with. Is there anything I could have done better ?

There is Typhus with a big blob of poxwalkers. A huge mob of Plague Marines with Biologus backup of rain 20d6 Blight Grenades.

Brigade Detachment Chaos - Death Guard
[119 PL, 1995pts]


+ HQ +
Chaos Lord Bolt pistol, Chainsword
Lord of Contagion Manreaper
Typhus

+ Troops +
Chaos Cultists x10
Chaos Cultists x10
Chaos Cultists x10
Chaos Cultists x10
Plague Marines x20
Poxwalkers x20

+ Elites +
Biologus Putrifier
Biologus Putrifier
Noxious Blightbringer

+ Fast Attack +
Chaos Spawn Chaos Spawn
Foetid Bloat-drone 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe
Foetid Bloat-drone 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

+ Heavy Support +
Defiler Defiler scourge, Reaper autocannon
Plagueburst Crawler 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

Plagueburst Crawler 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger



I've ran similar. Biggest bleh is the Lord of contagion. Take a plaugecaster for about the same cost and so much more useful. Defiler won't win many fans but I've had okay success.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/08 04:08:49


Post by: Niiru


I'm considering adding a small DG detachment to an army, basically because I was going to add a small unit of Tzeentch Flamers as (for fluff reasons) I wanted a small elite powerful flamer-carrying unit in my army.

Instead of the Tzeentch Flamers though, I'm thinking about taking 3x Foul Blightspawn in a Rhino. Possibly with 7 Plague Marines, but I'm actually tempted to stick to just the Blightspawn, as it makes the egg basket a lot cheaper (and so I can use those points to add other units as targets).

However, for a vanguard, I need a HQ. Currently thinking of a Plaguecaster, and putting him in the Rhino with the 2/3 Blightspawn. Makes for a juicy target again, but could be powerful.

Otherwise... I'm not sure. A standard Lord maybe, or a Lord of Contagion (as he can deepstrike, and so wouldn't need to go in the Rhino).

Any thoughts on what might work best? Typhon is just too expensive and won't synergise with much in my list. One of the Lords can be a beatstick. OR stick with a Plaguecaster and go all out on Smite and Mortal Wounds powers.

Edit: Other than Smite, are any of the other DG contagion damage powers worth using? They seem to be aimed at low toughness, horde style units, and both seem to be less efficient than smite anyway... Though as none of the buffing spells are of much use to me, I guess they're still extra MW (along with bonus wound potential from the plaguecaster ability). Makes me have to re-consider if a Plasma+Plaguebringer Lord would be a better option though.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/08 12:39:37


Post by: lindsay40k


You could go with the Plague Marines, give them two belchers, and cast Miasma & Vitality on them. That’ll be a lot of auto hits for anything charging, and make them very difficult to sweep with Heavy bolters or massed lasguns


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/09 03:16:05


Post by: adamsouza


 buddha wrote:

I've ran similar. Biggest bleh is the Lord of contagion. Take a plaugecaster for about the same cost and so much more useful. Defiler won't win many fans but I've had okay success.


I originally had the plaugecaster in there, but figured the Lord of Contagion was more durable. You are probably right about the plaguecaster being more useful.

The defiler is on the list mostly since I only have 2 Plagueburst Crawlers.

Thank you for the feedback.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/09 17:20:27


Post by: Odrankt


If I was too run a Battalion of Nurgle and a Spearhead of Deathguard. Could I use a Nurgle Poxbringer/Epidemius to grant PBCs Loci of Virulence? E.g Epidemius is surrounded by PBCs and LoV would grant PBC mortar weapon D3+1 Dmg on a wound roll of 6+ because they have the Nurgle Demon Keyword


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/09 17:54:05


Post by: Jidmah


Yes, that's how it works, fall a DG daemons: Daemon Prince, Bloat Drone, Blighthauler, PBC, Defiler, Mortarion and Possessed.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/09 17:55:17


Post by: blackmage


yes loci works on PBC


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/12 11:09:41


Post by: Brymm


What is a pure DG answer to Knights? Or a single big ass knight?
I am running double Daemon Princes with Talons and wings but even though they math out way better than Axe princes, they are still wounding on 5s unless you have Blades on them or are near Mortarion...
Mortarion obviously will chop up a knight but without Warptime I won't be in combat turn 1.
Suggestions?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/12 11:39:37


Post by: Captain Garius


I haven't faced them with my Deathguard yet, but I can offer advice from facing them with my Deathwatch: Shooting is only good if you can take away their invuln, so you want a Dark Hereticus Sorcerer (which will give you Warptime too). Melee is great against them. Poxwalkers especially if you can hedge them in, and plague weapon Plague Marines will eat them with the stratagem and Blades (+2 to wound and causing MW on 5's). Deathshrouds should do pretty well also.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/12 16:09:04


Post by: buddha


 Brymm wrote:
What is a pure DG answer to Knights? Or a single big ass knight?
I am running double Daemon Princes with Talons and wings but even though they math out way better than Axe princes, they are still wounding on 5s unless you have Blades on them or are near Mortarion...
Mortarion obviously will chop up a knight but without Warptime I won't be in combat turn 1.
Suggestions?


An important question now a days but one without a great answer for pure DG. If you soup chaos has plenty of good options from oblits, to Skullreaver prince, etc.

Pure you have to rely on CC and psychers. Sure, you can try tri-las oreds and entropy cannons but the design of the codex is not focused on ranged anti- tank. If you can pump out mortal wounds with CC with CC plague Marines or blightlords (blades if putrefaction) it can help. Foul blightspawn can put hurt on as well. You can also just try to ignore them and play for objectives which, though unsexy, can still win in bad matchups like knights.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/12 16:39:31


Post by: blackmage


 Brymm wrote:
What is a pure DG answer to Knights? Or a single big ass knight?
I am running double Daemon Princes with Talons and wings but even though they math out way better than Axe princes, they are still wounding on 5s unless you have Blades on them or are near Mortarion...
Mortarion obviously will chop up a knight but without Warptime I won't be in combat turn 1.
Suggestions?

like single codex they dont have any real answer, most depend then by IK list build, if you face a list like the Nova winner with a mono nurgle you simply cant hurt the castellan, if you play Morty if kills it in 1 turn, if you bring some anti tank you cant rid of 90 infantry men and so on.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/13 07:15:58


Post by: elk@work


 Brymm wrote:
What is a pure DG answer to Knights? Or a single big ass knight?
I am running double Daemon Princes with Talons and wings but even though they math out way better than Axe princes, they are still wounding on 5s unless you have Blades on them or are near Mortarion...
Mortarion obviously will chop up a knight but without Warptime I won't be in combat turn 1.
Suggestions?

pure DG is likely to go second against knights, as those buds tend to have fewer deploys - I'd start from here and build around hordes plus chars... deny proper targets, go for board control and objectives. note knights cannot walk over infantry, unless when falling back - so at least Galants and like may be not allowed to do much. just a funny idea - a couple of LoC deep strike in between cultists/poxwalkers and try get into CC to place some hurt


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/14 08:26:50


Post by: Hrudian


So I’m attending a doubles tournament next month and will have to come up with a 800pts list. My teammate will bring Salamanders (see his list below).

What do you think of this list?


Battalion

Chaos Lord
Daemon Prince / no wings

5 plaguemarines, 2x blight launcher
5 plaguemarines, 2x blight launcher
10 cultists

Patrol

Poxbringer
24 plaguebearers
3 Plaguedrones


My teammate’s Salamanders list:

Smash Captain, th, combimelta
Captain on bike, th&ss

5 scouts, heavy bolter
5 scouts, heavy bolter
5 tacticals, lascanon

5 devastators, 1 lascannon
5 devastators, 1 lascannon
5 devastators, 1 lascannon

Thanks


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/14 09:24:25


Post by: Jidmah


What models do you have available? Giving advice is kind of useless if you don't have the models.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/14 10:22:30


Post by: Hrudian


Appreciate your reaction! I have the following painted and ready to use:

3x DP
17 Plaguemarines
2x Plagueburst Crawler
2x Bloat Drone
1x Lord of COntagion
2x Foul Blightspawn
1x Chaos Lord
5x Blightlord Terminators
1x Rhino
1x MBH
10x Cultists

6x Plaguedrones
30x Plaguebearers
3x Poxbringer
1x Spoilpox scriverener
12x Nurglings bases
1x GUO


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/14 10:33:56


Post by: COLD CASH


Leviathan and contemptors make short work of knights.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/14 10:49:54


Post by: Jidmah


COLD CASH wrote:
Leviathan and contemptors make short work of knights.

They do? What load-outs are you talking about?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/14 11:22:14


Post by: blackmage


leviathan with double grav flux bombard is great against IK but only 18". contemptors have c beam cannons and double soulburner+chainclaw two of them easily get down a IK.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/14 11:55:10


Post by: Jidmah


 Hrudian wrote:
Appreciate your reaction! I have the following painted and ready to use:

3x DP
17 Plaguemarines
2x Plagueburst Crawler
2x Bloat Drone
1x Lord of COntagion
2x Foul Blightspawn
1x Chaos Lord
5x Blightlord Terminators
1x Rhino
1x MBH
10x Cultists

6x Plaguedrones
30x Plaguebearers
3x Poxbringer
1x Spoilpox scriverener
12x Nurglings bases
1x GUO


Well, I'm not too sure about your mate's list, but the good news is he brought lascannons and thunderhammers to smash tanks, something DG doesn't really do well.
- In general, I would either go for a daemons battalion (plague bearers and nurglings) instead of the DG battalion or drop them completely. Daemons have much better troops than we do, but we have better toys.
- I would also find room for one or two foul blightspawns. They can kill almost everything and tend to do better the smaller the game is.
- You have few units that benefit from your chaos lord, I would invest the points into some raw power instead of a force multiplier. He also is redundant with your non-winged daemon prince, who provides the same aura and more punch
-Try to fit a bloat drone or PBC instead of Plague Drones, they are very hard to remove and deal a lot of damage to infantry - something you will see a lot in 800 point lists.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/14 12:01:27


Post by: Hrudian


 Jidmah wrote:
 Hrudian wrote:
Appreciate your reaction! I have the following painted and ready to use:

3x DP
17 Plaguemarines
2x Plagueburst Crawler
2x Bloat Drone
1x Lord of COntagion
2x Foul Blightspawn
1x Chaos Lord
5x Blightlord Terminators
1x Rhino
1x MBH
10x Cultists

6x Plaguedrones
30x Plaguebearers
3x Poxbringer
1x Spoilpox scriverener
12x Nurglings bases
1x GUO


Well, I'm not too sure about your mate's list, but the good news is he brought lascannons and thunderhammers to smash tanks, something DG doesn't really do well.
- In general, I would either go for a daemons battalion (plague bearers and nurglings) instead of the DG battalion or drop them completely. Daemons have much better troops than we do, but we have better toys.
- I would also find room for one or two foul blightspawns. They can kill almost everything and tend to do better the smaller the game is.
- You have few units that benefit from your chaos lord, I would invest the points into some raw power instead of a force multiplier. He also is redundant with your non-winged daemon prince, who provides the same aura and more punch
-Try to fit a bloat drone or PBC instead of Plague Drones, they are very hard to remove and deal a lot of damage to infantry - something you will see a lot in 800 point lists.


Thanks a lot. I was in a doubt if I should bring PBC/Bloat Drones as the meta is quite anti-knight heavy I suppose. Our plan is to bring as much infantry as possible in order to "waste" our opponents'anti-tank/knight weapons. Will this tactic pay off? Or are PBC that resilient that I should bring one or two anyway?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/14 12:37:34


Post by: COLD CASH


 Jidmah wrote:
COLD CASH wrote:
Leviathan and contemptors make short work of knights.

They do? What load-outs are you talking about?


I prefer butcher on all. But i do have c-beams etc.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/14 12:39:07


Post by: Zid


 Brymm wrote:
What is a pure DG answer to Knights? Or a single big ass knight?
I am running double Daemon Princes with Talons and wings but even though they math out way better than Axe princes, they are still wounding on 5s unless you have Blades on them or are near Mortarion...
Mortarion obviously will chop up a knight but without Warptime I won't be in combat turn 1.
Suggestions?


Need to soup with Chaos Demons if you wanna have a chance; things like Virulent Blessing or Shriveling pox, or having a poxbringer nearby. Pure DG their only answer is Mortarian, which isn't a good one when faced with a Castellan


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/14 13:09:29


Post by: Jidmah


I'd say that anti-tank weapons are wasted even when shooting at a PBC

I wonder, don't you have a Malignant Plaguecaster? Psyker to buff miasma helps a lot, plus you get smite and one deny for enemy psykers.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/14 13:34:32


Post by: Hrudian


 Jidmah wrote:
I'd say that anti-tank weapons are wasted even when shooting at a PBC

I wonder, don't you have a Malignant Plaguecaster? Psyker to buff miasma helps a lot, plus you get smite and one deny for enemy psykers.


Yep, forgot to add him to the list of options. I do have a Malignant Plaguecaster. I was thinking of switching my lord and Plaguedrones for another Daemon Prince. Would that be an improvement?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/14 15:01:30


Post by: blackmage


I prefer butcher on all. But i do have c-beams etc.


butcher doesn't do a lot, wound on 4+ IK saves at 4+ or 3+ and just 2 damage, maybe on leviathan but sure not on contemptors, average 4 wounds on a 3+ Ik after saves, 2 wounds on 2+ save Ik.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/16 08:57:42


Post by: Brother Payne


 blackmage wrote:
I prefer butcher on all. But i do have c-beams etc.


butcher doesn't do a lot, wound on 4+ IK saves at 4+ or 3+ and just 2 damage, maybe on leviathan but sure not on contemptors, average 4 wounds on a 3+ Ik after saves, 2 wounds on 2+ save Ik.
Yeah idk about butchers making short work of knights... maybe if you get death hex off but even then I can't really see it. If it weren't for their fragility, soulburner decimators would be the way to go. We really struggle vs knights tbh. The corruption DP is good but he can't deal with a knight himself.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/16 10:24:25


Post by: elodingens


But is this really comparable? A pure DG against Imp Soup with IK, IG and BA?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/16 20:03:21


Post by: blackmage


it is not... hard you stand a chance with pure DG against list like that.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/20 16:25:15


Post by: gwarsh41


I just finished my Renegade Porphyrion this week. I want to run it in a list asap to get that sucker on the table. I don't just want to plop it down and then cry as 3 las preds tear it a new hole though. So I was considering running it with a chunk of daemon engines, and possibly a small Alpha legion supreme command with a Hellwright (cause they can't be deathguard), sorcerer and daemon prince to bring along some extra punchy. Or just spend a CP for an aux detachment. I'm honestly not sure if a D3 heal on a 30 wound model is worth the investment.
I figure that unless I spam nurglings to high hell, I'll have a pretty low CP army at 2000pt. drones/PBC and daemon princes feel like the easiest thing to me. Any suggestions?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/21 07:49:41


Post by: Brother Payne


 gwarsh41 wrote:
I just finished my Renegade Porphyrion this week. I want to run it in a list asap to get that sucker on the table. I don't just want to plop it down and then cry as 3 las preds tear it a new hole though. So I was considering running it with a chunk of daemon engines, and possibly a small Alpha legion supreme command with a Hellwright (cause they can't be deathguard), sorcerer and daemon prince to bring along some extra punchy. Or just spend a CP for an aux detachment. I'm honestly not sure if a D3 heal on a 30 wound model is worth the investment.
I figure that unless I spam nurglings to high hell, I'll have a pretty low CP army at 2000pt. drones/PBC and daemon princes feel like the easiest thing to me. Any suggestions?
A full battalion of AL with a big unit or two of Cultists might be worth it for screening and board control. Alternatively you could go with a Nurgle Daemon battalion with a big blob of Plaguebearers. I agree too that m you should add some alternate heavy targets too - PBCs or even Morty could do the job.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/21 08:49:53


Post by: lindsay40k


 gwarsh41 wrote:
I just finished my Renegade Porphyrion this week. I want to run it in a list asap to get that sucker on the table. I don't just want to plop it down and then cry as 3 las preds tear it a new hole though. So I was considering running it with a chunk of daemon engines, and possibly a small Alpha legion supreme command with a Hellwright (cause they can't be deathguard), sorcerer and daemon prince to bring along some extra punchy. Or just spend a CP for an aux detachment. I'm honestly not sure if a D3 heal on a 30 wound model is worth the investment.
I figure that unless I spam nurglings to high hell, I'll have a pretty low CP army at 2000pt. drones/PBC and daemon princes feel like the easiest thing to me. Any suggestions?


You might want to cross-post to the general Chaos tactica thread - you’re talking about a lot of factions here and soup players who don’t main DG might have some insight that’ll miss this particular thread

If you bring a CSM Detachment, you’re opening up Warptime, Death Hex, Prescience, and Tide of Traitors. That can present interesting options with your DG Cultists, MBD, and even the situationally-viable Defiler and Blightlords.

If you can keep it alive, healing could be good. I faced a Spartan and kept knocking it down a Wounds level only to see an Iron Priest perk it back up again

If you do bring a tech-healer, then I’d recommend them having more than one thing to work on. A jammy opponent could potentially kill your knight in one round, leaving your healing ability unused. Thinking of MBH again, here, and also PBC. Maybe Defiler (though it may well Warptime out of reach on turn one)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: that is a really nice Knight, by the way. Have you got a P&M blog on here?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/21 15:01:33


Post by: gwarsh41


I don't have a P&M blog just yet, but I'm planning on creating one today to fully explain all of the steps to make it. As well as document any additional bits I put on it.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/28 18:52:58


Post by: lare2


Anyone see any issues with the FAQ? As someone who inevitably goes second I'm pretty happy with the new stratagem. The fly nerfs a bit of a pain for my bloat drones but not exactly cripling. I think we're still cool?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/28 19:58:50


Post by: Niiru


lare2 wrote:
Anyone see any issues with the FAQ? As someone who inevitably goes second I'm pretty happy with the new stratagem. The fly nerfs a bit of a pain for my bloat drones but not exactly cripling. I think we're still cool?



I don't think the FAQ effects DG very much.

It continues to wreck anyone who plays assault units, or fly units (so anyone who uses raptors or warp talons might as well just not play).

It turned Alpha Legion from decent to poor.

Thousand Sons were actually improved, as their deepstrike relic now works turn 1.

Death Guard are slightly better (relatively) than they were before, just because all the vanilla chaos armies are now relatively weaker.

My next purchase was always going to be some Blightlords regardless, but I'm certainly happier with the decision now, as the other units I was tempted by are now borderline unplayable.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/28 23:45:54


Post by: Nightlord1987


Feeling glad I kept my Death Guard and transports. Going second and dropping the cover strategem seems super fluffy for Death Guard.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/29 02:21:31


Post by: Ascalam


My Deathguard are fine with the new FAQ, given I play a shooty Daemon engine list..


My GSC weren’t even given the courtesy of lube...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/30 06:16:21


Post by: COLD CASH


Just won a doubles 30-40 team tourney with battalion of nurglings and 2 poxbringers and crusader teamed with spearhead of crawlers winged prince with talons and a helverin - 1600 points total. 800 per army 1low 1 fw and no buffs between armies.

The nurglings stole so many vp and stayed alive way way to long it was awesome.

Renegade knight strat is also damn good, being able to use it in 2 phases in your turn can be clutch(it was).

Did a batrep in batrep forum!!!

All hail Papa Nurgle!!!!!!

Take aways from 1st time using knights, helverins are amazing!!! 1 helverin was golden imagining 2-3 is just disgusting.

Thermal canons on a single renegade crusader(points limit) + icarus is still a mad good loadout in this meta. The icarus was popping flyers left and right and the thermal was godlike in 3 games.

Needed 22 wounds on a baneblade to kill it rolled 22 wounds from 1 shot.

Needed 17 wounds on a tesseract vault to kill it rolled 17 from 1 shot.

Really fun weekend now im tired as all hell and need some sleep!!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/30 07:03:54


Post by: ulfhednir86


Anyone here know if renegades and heretics make good allies or vise versa? And what works well


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/30 08:36:36


Post by: Jidmah


lare2 wrote:
Anyone see any issues with the FAQ? As someone who inevitably goes second I'm pretty happy with the new stratagem. The fly nerfs a bit of a pain for my bloat drones but not exactly cripling. I think we're still cool?


I might try Deathshrouds again. With 1+ Armor and Mortarion with 2+ when going second, he might actually live long enough to do something.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/09/30 17:56:12


Post by: Ascalam


 ulfhednir86 wrote:
Anyone here know if renegades and heretics make good allies or vise versa? And what works well


As a whole they aren’t great.

Not a bad way to add in some heavy fire support though.

A nenegade commander and some basilisks isn’t too expensive as an add on, for example.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/01 08:15:56


Post by: lare2


At a local tourney Saturday and ran Typhus. Got spanked every game but still had a good time.

The 2nd game raised an issue regarding Typhus' shooting however. The way I read it, Typhus hits on a 2+ and always hits on a 5+, giving him the capacity to ignore any modifiers and to be pretty lethal in overwatch.

My opponent argued that it meant he would only ever hit on a 5+ and the 2+ BS should be ignored.

Being an amiable chap I agreed to play that game that way but would like to avoid the confusion in the future. What do you guys think?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/01 08:34:09


Post by: Jidmah


Always hitting on a 5+ means just that. His BS is ignored.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/01 09:24:30


Post by: lare2


 Jidmah wrote:
Always hitting on a 5+ means just that. His BS is ignored.


Wouldn't that be "only hits on a 5+" though? Apologies if I'm just being a lemon here.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/01 10:52:58


Post by: Jidmah


Always means always. No matter if your opponent has -14 to hit or during overwatch or when he is standing still, he always hits on 5+.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/01 13:24:14


Post by: lare2


 Jidmah wrote:
Always means always. No matter if your opponent has -14 to hit or during overwatch or when he is standing still, he always hits on 5+.


Well that sucks. Thanks for this though.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/04 19:28:18


Post by: Brymm


Little less than a week from my big local event (The Michigan GT), down to my final list.
The big FAQ seems like it will hurt some considering about 3/4 of my army has "fly," but it won't be that bad. I'm less concerned about losing first turn now because of the cover strat.
Pretty geeked, still worried about knights but I'll probably just play around them.
Spoiler:

DGGTmorty (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [107 PL, 1999pts]
Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard)
Lord of War
Mortarion
Selections: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality, 6. Curse of the Leper

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard)
No Force Org Slot
Gifts of Decay (1 Relic)
HQ
Daemon Prince of Nurgle
Selections: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

Daemon Prince of Nurgle
Selections: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Fugaris' Helm, Hellforged sword, Warlord, Wings

Troops
Plague Marines
Plague Champion
Codex
Selections: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marines
Plague Champion
Codex
Selections: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marines
Plague Champion
Codex
Selections: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marines
Plague Champion
Codex
Selections: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Plasma gun

Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Plasma gun

Poxwalkers
Selections: 16x Poxwalker

Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard)
HQ
Lord of Contagion
Selections: Manreaper

Fast Attack
Foetid Bloat-drone
Selections: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone
Selections: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone
Selections: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe


Created with BattleScribe


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/04 21:58:14


Post by: blackmage


too much plague marines to be competitive in a big event, sorry to say


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/05 00:11:19


Post by: Brymm


Yeah I don't hold any illusions that I'll run the table, but I think a 4-2 finish is possible. The PMs have worked pretty good for me in my practice games. The have a good saturation of special weapons and are pretty resilient against anti infantry weapons. They don't see any heavy weapons being fired their way with all of the other high armor high toughness threats on the table.

That being said, I hear you. 20 Plague Marines are slow and should be about 2 points cheaper per model. But other than paying too much (40 pts by my scale) I don't think they are bad. At what price point would they go from being bad to good?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/05 00:17:14


Post by: buddha


 Brymm wrote:
Yeah I don't hold any illusions that I'll run the table, but I think a 4-2 finish is possible. The PMs have worked pretty good for me in my practice games. The have a good saturation of special weapons and are pretty resilient against anti infantry weapons. They don't see any heavy weapons being fired their way with all of the other high armor high toughness threats on the table.

That being said, I hear you. 20 Plague Marines are slow and should be about 2 points cheaper per model. But other than paying too much (40 pts by my scale) I don't think they are bad. At what price point would they go from being bad to good?


Would you give up at least one squad of PMs for some cultists? With the new FAQ screens are really important and from my own experience you want your PMs flexible and able to move around and therefore not being tied to an objective.

Also, and perhaps even more important, drop the Lord of Contagion. You can take a malignant plaguecaster for about the same or even just a chaos lord is a better take.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/05 00:37:09


Post by: blackmage


i would run a chaos lord in outrider detachment (cheaper than LoC) and instead 20 pm's i would try to play blightlords terminators

mortarion
2xdp's
3x10 cultists
10 blightlords 2 flails 2 blight launchers

chaos lord with jumpack
3x FBD with plaguespitter


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/05 01:11:45


Post by: Brymm


I like the blight lord idea just don't have any painted up. The LoC is in there as a deep strike CC threat, back field objective getter, with a small foot print and a pain to remove. In test games he's dropped in and gets the charge about half the time (I think its 52% with the command point). I tried the Plague Caster in a similar list and I find the DG powers to be underwhelming to support so many psykers unless I just plan on smiting.
The replacement options are either a Termi Lord or Termi Sorcerer. I want a singular deep strike threat. The LoC is the toughest. The Lord is a little faster and with a combiplasma can actually shoot and kill stuff when he lands, and the Sorcerer just isn't deadly enough and not super tough (and costs the most).
The times the LoC dropped in and failed his charge, enemies moved away, letting him walk towards them and eventually hold an objective. I wish he had a gun. Or moved faster than molasses in January.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/05 07:43:46


Post by: Jidmah


I proxy my LoC as Terminator Lord with Plaguebringer relic - he has not disappointed me so far, the D3 damage and the extra mortal wounds allow him to tackle many threats he otherwise couldn't.
Otherwise, I second the notion to bring a plague caster instead. Smite is powerful enough to just bring him for that, and then you take plague wind and curse of the leper - one is great at killing guardsmen and the other at killing hordes. I rarely find myself not being able to use one or the other.

Also note that your drones do not need to be in a DG detachment at all, so you could just use a CSM sorcerer in that detachment and have access to dark hereticus powers.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/05 11:48:57


Post by: Brymm


Great Scott!
Heretic Astartes faction for the win!
Jump pack Sorcerer takes the LoC spot in an almost perfect swap. My army just got a lot better with Warptime.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/05 14:02:58


Post by: Bach


 buddha wrote:
 Brymm wrote:
Yeah I don't hold any illusions that I'll run the table, but I think a 4-2 finish is possible. The PMs have worked pretty good for me in my practice games. The have a good saturation of special weapons and are pretty resilient against anti infantry weapons. They don't see any heavy weapons being fired their way with all of the other high armor high toughness threats on the table.

That being said, I hear you. 20 Plague Marines are slow and should be about 2 points cheaper per model. But other than paying too much (40 pts by my scale) I don't think they are bad. At what price point would they go from being bad to good?


Would you give up at least one squad of PMs for some cultists? With the new FAQ screens are really important and from my own experience you want your PMs flexible and able to move around and therefore not being tied to an objective.

Also, and perhaps even more important, drop the Lord of Contagion. You can take a malignant plaguecaster for about the same or even just a chaos lord is a better take.


So the new FAQ prohibits any flying unit from moving over a screen? If that's true, that's a pretty significant game changer.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/05 14:06:55


Post by: Jidmah


You can no longer do it while charging, consolidating, piling in or when doing heroic interventions - but you can jump screens just fine while moving, advancing or falling back.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/05 14:13:16


Post by: blackmage


bligthtlords are a bigger threat enemy cant ignore them, they have a large footprint so they grab easily objectives and they shoot.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/07 01:10:23


Post by: Sarevokk


Hi guys,

This list is inspired from a september winning Death guard list ( showcased in the last almost pro gaming).
I have never thought to use Horrors and nurglings in the same detachement, the only thing that is lost is the loci, the tzeentch loci is a very little use so its not a problem to mix them and get the +5pts.

The second key detachment is a Patrol with Nurgle terminator sorcerer ( for blades + miasma, you can swap with typhus if you want) and then dreadful Ten blightlords squad ( 2flails, 2 launchers).

The 3rd detachment is the difference with the main winning list. Why? because i dont own any Thousands sons.
So i added the mech Death Guard outrider detachement, with 2 pbcs, 2 drones and one myphetic ( you can replace it with drone i dont own 3 thats why and there is a synergy with bls). The Arch contaminator suppurating plate is here to reroll all wounds of all of this.

The goal is killing things T2 and tank the first turns with vehicles.



++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [26 PL, 462pts] ++



+ HQ +

Changecaster [4 PL, 78pts]

Herald of Slaanesh [4 PL, 66pts]: Ravaging claws, Symphony of Pain (cheap smite tax for batallion)



+ Troops +

Horrors [12 PL, 210pts]: 30x Pink Horror

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms



++ Patrol Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [35 PL, 598pts] ++

+ HQ +

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [8 PL, 126pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 4. Blades of Putrefaction, Combi-bolter, Power sword



+ Elites +

Blightlord Terminators [27 PL, 472pts]

. Blightlord Champion: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Blight launcher, Bubotic Axe

. Blightlord Terminator: Blight launcher, Bubotic Axe

. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption

. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter



++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [48 PL, 937pts] ++



+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 199pts]: Hellforged sword, Plague Spewer, Wings



+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe



Myphitic Blight-haulers [7 PL, 142pts]

. Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Missile launcher, Multi-melta



+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger



++ Total: [109 PL, 1997pts] ++



Do you think it can be effective?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/08 04:50:08


Post by: Nightlord1987


So many teminators...

I really think they should be split up, but it does pack a punch.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/08 11:36:08


Post by: blackmage


termies are fine in unit of 10 no reason to split them up, btw your patrol lack the mandatory troop and there is no comparison between a TS supreme command (i think the winning list ran it) and your detachment, different way to play lists


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/08 20:08:58


Post by: Salt donkey


I Have to say you’re running the wrong type of drones. Here’s what I’m running for reference

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [69 PL, 1248pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Fugaris' Helm, Malefic talon, Warlord, Wings

Typhus [9 PL, 175pts]: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 5. Putrescent Vitality

+ Elites +

Blightlord Terminators [27 PL, 473pts]
. Blightlord Champion: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption
. Blightlord Terminator: Blight launcher, Bubotic Axe
. Blightlord Terminator: Blight launcher, Bubotic Axe
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Balesword, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [38 PL, 752pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle

Rewards of Chaos (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 189pts]: Malefic talon, Warp bolter, Wings
. Nurgle: Miasma of Pestilence

Poxbringer [4 PL, 70pts]: Corruption, Virulent Blessing

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

+ Fast Attack +

Plague Drones [16 PL, 331pts]: Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 8x Plague Drone, Plaguebringer

++ Total: [107 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

It’s a big bummer that deathguard and daemon miasma work on different things. The plan with this list is to run 3 blocks of tough things at my opponents. I run the flies with the Nurgle Deomon prince, typhus with blightlords, and the tanks with the poxbringer and warlord. I expect to lose 1 or 2 of these bricks, but not all three.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/09 05:52:48


Post by: NurglesR0T


 Brymm wrote:
I like the blight lord idea just don't have any painted up. The LoC is in there as a deep strike CC threat, back field objective getter, with a small foot print and a pain to remove. In test games he's dropped in and gets the charge about half the time (I think its 52% with the command point). I tried the Plague Caster in a similar list and I find the DG powers to be underwhelming to support so many psykers unless I just plan on smiting.
The replacement options are either a Termi Lord or Termi Sorcerer. I want a singular deep strike threat. The LoC is the toughest. The Lord is a little faster and with a combiplasma can actually shoot and kill stuff when he lands, and the Sorcerer just isn't deadly enough and not super tough (and costs the most).
The times the LoC dropped in and failed his charge, enemies moved away, letting him walk towards them and eventually hold an objective. I wish he had a gun. Or moved faster than molasses in January.


I've always said that the LoC should also have the Chaos Lord aura to reroll ones to hit. Would give him much more utility



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/10 23:19:29


Post by: Brymm


Tangent:
You manage to get the charge off with Mortarion against a Castellen. You want to get the highest chance of knocking off those 28W in one round, do you roll all Eviscerating Blows giving you approximately 1 extra hit from DttFE or do you roll 18 Scything attacks and try for 3 or more hits that you choose to use the Evicerating profile on. The math probably isn't too hard but maybe its been done?
Obviously the knight is doomed anyhow being charged by Morty and friends, but which is the most efficient?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/11 03:53:47


Post by: lindsay40k


 Brymm wrote:
Great Scott!
Heretic Astartes faction for the win!
Jump pack Sorcerer takes the LoC spot in an almost perfect swap. My army just got a lot better with Warptime.


Worth noting that, if you don't mind getting into lots of arguments over RAI, a DG Sorcerer on Palanquin specifically uses Dark Hereticus. Your model will be on a 'no longer supported' eggtimer and you'll be at the mercy of TOs as the RAW reading in our favour it is quite clearly only there by omission - and likely to get nerfed if it wins a big tourney.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/11 04:27:11


Post by: MinMax


 Brymm wrote:
Tangent:
You manage to get the charge off with Mortarion against a Castellen. You want to get the highest chance of knocking off those 28W in one round, do you roll all Eviscerating Blows giving you approximately 1 extra hit from DttFE or do you roll 18 Scything attacks and try for 3 or more hits that you choose to use the Evicerating profile on. The math probably isn't too hard but maybe its been done?
Obviously the knight is doomed anyhow being charged by Morty and friends, but which is the most efficient?


Generally speaking, you're best off throwing Eviscerating Blows at big targets like that unless you have either (or both) Blades of Putrefaction or Virulent Blessing up.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/11 07:53:04


Post by: Jidmah


 MinMax wrote:
 Brymm wrote:
Tangent:
You manage to get the charge off with Mortarion against a Castellen. You want to get the highest chance of knocking off those 28W in one round, do you roll all Eviscerating Blows giving you approximately 1 extra hit from DttFE or do you roll 18 Scything attacks and try for 3 or more hits that you choose to use the Evicerating profile on. The math probably isn't too hard but maybe its been done?
Obviously the knight is doomed anyhow being charged by Morty and friends, but which is the most efficient?


Generally speaking, you're best off throwing Eviscerating Blows at big targets like that unless you have either (or both) Blades of Putrefaction or Virulent Blessing up.


This.
You can generally assume that Mortarion hits and wounds all of his Eviscerating Blows - while averages don't reflect that properly, the chance that he doesn't hit and wound is only about 5.5%, which means that all six of his attacks deal damage 71.3% of the time. Therefore you usually get 6d6 damage on a castellan for something between 18-24 damage most of the time. Mind you that there is a 33.5% chance of not getting an additional attack, so make sure that you take that into consideration. There is, however a
Reaping scythe only wounds on 3's (re-rolling ones) and allows a 5+ armor save, meaning only about half of them get to deal damage, for an average of 9 damage. Assuming you get your average 3 eviscerating blows, you would add 9-12 damage from rolling 3d6, for a total 18-21 damage.

So, while they are not far apart, the Eviscerating Blows profile is clearly better to smash T8 models without invulnerable saves. One you get +1 to wound or the enemy has at least a 5++ save, the reaping scythe pulls ahead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lindsay40k wrote:
 Brymm wrote:
Great Scott!
Heretic Astartes faction for the win!
Jump pack Sorcerer takes the LoC spot in an almost perfect swap. My army just got a lot better with Warptime.


Worth noting that, if you don't mind getting into lots of arguments over RAI, a DG Sorcerer on Palanquin specifically uses Dark Hereticus. Your model will be on a 'no longer supported' eggtimer and you'll be at the mercy of TOs as the RAW reading in our favour it is quite clearly only there by omission - and likely to get nerfed if it wins a big tourney.


I tried the Palanquin Sorcerer and found him to be wanting. My problem with him was that he is slow, while all good targets for warptime are pretty fast. Moving 5" and 3" cast range of warptime matches badly with daemon princes and Mortarion moving 12", so I'd rather take a jump pack sorcerer or at least a regular one (moves 6"+advance) and dodge all the RAW vs RAI discussions at the same time.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/11 16:31:25


Post by: gwarsh41


Yeah, with the 2 +1 to wound spells and their effects, Morty does stupid dmg when he throws a bucket of dice.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/11 17:16:49


Post by: lindsay40k


If you’re going down the Nurgle soup route, Prescience would be the masterstroke


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/11 19:51:10


Post by: gwarsh41


100% yes on prescience! Super Saiyan morty is the strongest model in the game without question. All in theory, as actually getting all those buffs on him before he dies is almost impossible.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/11 20:53:26


Post by: lindsay40k


And since we're taking a DH caster, don't forget Diabolic Strength


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/11 23:36:11


Post by: Brymm


Did you consider that any model he fights is minus one toughness due to his aura? Making the Scything wound on a natural 3 instead of 4, meaning any single +1 wound modifer like Blades would really tip it towards Scything and using the 6s to do the big swings, right? Considering you should get three extra swings from DttFE. Stand by, mathing...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/12 00:31:33


Post by: blackmage


scithyng attacks are only ap -2 and deliver just 1 damage, no sense use them against a castellan, Mortarion unleash 18 attacks considering he hit and wound with all, he can deliver about 10-11 wounds (i already added 3 mortal wounds from blades of putrefaction), remember that castellan will have a 2+ ta so he will save at 4+ your attacks, pretty better use eviscerating blow with -4 to save and straight d6 damage.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/12 05:56:47


Post by: Jidmah


 Brymm wrote:
Did you consider that any model he fights is minus one toughness due to his aura? Making the Scything wound on a natural 3 instead of 4, meaning any single +1 wound modifer like Blades would really tip it towards Scything and using the 6s to do the big swings, right? Considering you should get three extra swings from DttFE. Stand by, mathing...


Yes, that's pretty much what I've wrote. Without buff, eviscerating is slightly better, once you buff Mortarion to wound on 2+ with both profile, reaping is slightly better. Since, both powers also add additional damage themselves, so it's no longer a competition.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/13 23:58:56


Post by: Danny76


What are some optimum Plague Marine load outs, for units of 7 or 10.

Are the combat set ups any good?

Bubotic Axe with mace, or with knife?
Are the Plague Cleaver and Flail worth a look?

And also, the champion. Is there a good loadout to always go with?
The ETB guy has a power fist but a Plasma Gun, which seems a bit off.
Would fist with sword be better? Or just fist with knife?

Would it be worth having no power fist at all instead, and just a normal Bolter loadout?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/14 00:07:25


Post by: Niiru


Danny76 wrote:
What are some optimum Plague Marine load outs, for units of 7 or 10.

Are the combat set ups any good?

Bubotic Axe with mace, or with knife?
Are the Plague Cleaver and Flail worth a look?

And also, the champion. Is there a good loadout to always go with?
The ETB guy has a power fist but a Plasma Gun, which seems a bit off.
Would fist with sword be better? Or just fist with knife?

Would it be worth having no power fist at all instead, and just a normal Bolter loadout?



Bubotic axes are good, but then so are 2x knives for the extra attack. Think it depends on what enemy you're facing. Weak hordes you'd want more attacks, against meqs etc you'd probably want the axes.

I don't believe the plague cleaver is thought of very highly. You only get 1 attack, and you only hit on 4s.

Flail is very good on any unit. Personally would always recommend a flail over any other option (unless you're playing a shooty unit, but even then the flail is good anti-charge deterrent).

For the champion, depends again on what you're using the squad for. Fitting in as many Blight Launchers and Plasma Guns as you can is generally a decent option.

Also, you don't need to trade items for the fist it seems, so you can have a Champion with Plasma Gun, Plaguesword and Power Fist. May or may not be worth it, but means you get the option of not attacking at -1 to hit.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/14 01:59:37


Post by: Danny76


With the fist it seems so. But not sure Points wise whether I’d add them (I could potentially have 3 squads, but only 2 blight and 2 plasma total for basic marines..) though each champion could have a Plasma gun..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It basically comes down to 15 Bolters, 2 blight, 2 plasma, 2 axes, flail, plague belcher, plague spewer, cleaver.
Then 4 choices of champion I want to make (different for a couple for choice).
Probably won’t actually field more than two squads at a time I’d think?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/14 06:40:33


Post by: Jidmah


Niiru wrote:
Danny76 wrote:
What are some optimum Plague Marine load outs, for units of 7 or 10.

Are the combat set ups any good?

Bubotic Axe with mace, or with knife?
Are the Plague Cleaver and Flail worth a look?

And also, the champion. Is there a good loadout to always go with?
The ETB guy has a power fist but a Plasma Gun, which seems a bit off.
Would fist with sword be better? Or just fist with knife?

Would it be worth having no power fist at all instead, and just a normal Bolter loadout?



Bubotic axes are good, but then so are 2x knives for the extra attack. Think it depends on what enemy you're facing. Weak hordes you'd want more attacks, against meqs etc you'd probably want the axes.

I don't believe the plague cleaver is thought of very highly. You only get 1 attack, and you only hit on 4s.

Flail is very good on any unit. Personally would always recommend a flail over any other option (unless you're playing a shooty unit, but even then the flail is good anti-charge deterrent).

For the champion, depends again on what you're using the squad for. Fitting in as many Blight Launchers and Plasma Guns as you can is generally a decent option.

Also, you don't need to trade items for the fist it seems, so you can have a Champion with Plasma Gun, Plaguesword and Power Fist. May or may not be worth it, but means you get the option of not attacking at -1 to hit.


Axes also get the extra attack, so it's just a matter of paying points for more AP. Also keep in mind that you can have a possessed for the same points as a axe/knife marine.

In general, I would outfit a melee unit with 2 flails, 2 maces for vehicle hunting, 2 axe/knive combos and the rest with dual plague knives to keep the unit from becoming too expensive. Fist on champion is optional.
It also helps that this is exactly what you can get out of two boxes of plague marines without buying extra bits.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 15:00:34


Post by: Brymm


Just went 5-0 with pure Death Guard at a 100+ person GT in the great city of Lansing, MI this weekend!
Spoiler:

GTDeathGuardGT (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [107 PL, 1999pts]
Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard)
Lord of War
Mortarion
Selections: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality, 6. Curse of the Leper

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard)
No Force Org Slot
Gifts of Decay (1 Relic)
HQ
Daemon Prince of Nurgle
Selections: 3. Plague Wind, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

Daemon Prince of Nurgle
Selections: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Fugaris' Helm, Hellforged sword, Warlord, Wings

Troops
Plague Marines
Plague Champion
Codex
Selections: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marines
Plague Champion
Codex
Selections: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marines
Plague Champion
Codex
Selections: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marines
Plague Champion
Codex
Selections: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Plasma gun

Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Plasma gun

Poxwalkers
Selections: 16x Poxwalker

Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard)
HQ
Lord of Contagion
Selections: Manreaper

Fast Attack
Foetid Bloat-drone
Selections: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone
Selections: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone
Selections: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe


Created with BattleScribe


Got dinged for a poor display board, no written theme and not winning 50-0 every game. My biggest win was 35-15. I'll be doing a whole event report this week. Death to the False Emperor!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 15:38:23


Post by: blackmage


uhmm going 5-0 with that list means or you were very lucky with parings ur a top player


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 15:38:40


Post by: gwarsh41


Danny76 wrote:
What are some optimum Plague Marine load outs, for units of 7 or 10.

Are the combat set ups any good?

Bubotic Axe with mace, or with knife?
Are the Plague Cleaver and Flail worth a look?

And also, the champion. Is there a good loadout to always go with?
The ETB guy has a power fist but a Plasma Gun, which seems a bit off.
Would fist with sword be better? Or just fist with knife?

Would it be worth having no power fist at all instead, and just a normal Bolter loadout?


CC plague marines are pretty dope, with buffs they can be pretty crazy damage. Generally 2 flails is enough for standard targets, axes with buffs, you can re-roll everything with +2 to wound, so 5s deal mortal wounds. You just need a tallyman, warlord trait, psyker and stratagem. Personally I rarely find the power fist does very much work for me. I've been putting it's cost towards more bodies. The biggest thing I always forget is it cant re-roll wounds, and doesn't get to deal mortal wounds from the spell.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 15:58:42


Post by: Niiru


 gwarsh41 wrote:
Danny76 wrote:
What are some optimum Plague Marine load outs, for units of 7 or 10.

Are the combat set ups any good?

Bubotic Axe with mace, or with knife?
Are the Plague Cleaver and Flail worth a look?

And also, the champion. Is there a good loadout to always go with?
The ETB guy has a power fist but a Plasma Gun, which seems a bit off.
Would fist with sword be better? Or just fist with knife?

Would it be worth having no power fist at all instead, and just a normal Bolter loadout?


CC plague marines are pretty dope, with buffs they can be pretty crazy damage. Generally 2 flails is enough for standard targets, axes with buffs, you can re-roll everything with +2 to wound, so 5s deal mortal wounds. You just need a tallyman, warlord trait, psyker and stratagem. Personally I rarely find the power fist does very much work for me. I've been putting it's cost towards more bodies. The biggest thing I always forget is it cant re-roll wounds, and doesn't get to deal mortal wounds from the spell.


This is a good point about the power fist, no wound re-rolls in a unit where every cc weapon can re-roll.

Personally I'd probably drop the fist in favour of a couple blight launchers. Costs a little more, but they are good weapons.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 16:03:55


Post by: Brymm


 blackmage wrote:
uhmm going 5-0 with that list means or you were very lucky with parings ur a top player


I consistently played people with similar battle points. Not winning every game in a land slide made me play players who also didnt win by land slides. I played each game to the best of my abilities and won them.
I'm not sure if your statement was a compliment, a put down or just a statement, but it seems to be untrue. The pairings weren't particularly lucky nor am I a top tier player. I just won the games I played. Thats all you can do, am I right?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 16:13:35


Post by: Barnie25


 Brymm wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
uhmm going 5-0 with that list means or you were very lucky with parings ur a top player


I consistently played people with similar battle points. Not winning every game in a land slide made me play players who also didnt win by land slides. I played each game to the best of my abilities and won them.
I'm not sure if your statement was a compliment, a put down or just a statement, but it seems to be untrue. The pairings weren't particularly lucky nor am I a top tier player. I just won the games I played. Thats all you can do, am I right?


Congrats on the finish! Did you face any Lord of War? What was your strategy?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 16:13:46


Post by: Niiru


 Brymm wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
uhmm going 5-0 with that list means or you were very lucky with parings ur a top player


I consistently played people with similar battle points. Not winning every game in a land slide made me play players who also didnt win by land slides. I played each game to the best of my abilities and won them.
I'm not sure if your statement was a compliment, a put down or just a statement, but it seems to be untrue. The pairings weren't particularly lucky nor am I a top tier player. I just won the games I played. Thats all you can do, am I right?



Blackmage is one of those people who say that anything but the most undercosted cheese units are garbage and uncompetitive. And then when someone wins with a list that blackmage has said is terrible, he then just says it was because all of the opponents at the tournament were terrible players or all took crippled fluff lists.

Not even joking, this literal thing has happened before, with him and another of the usual suspects on these forums. It's a common event unfortunately. Also happened to a recent winner of another big tournament, an Eldar player who took an Avatar. He got reamed for using a 'terrible list' and that 'the tournament must have been filled with bad players'. Even though it was one of the bigger tournaments in the US, attended by some of the top ranked players in the country.

But I guess it's like football. Armchair players always shout at the tv screen, thinking they know better than the actual coaches/players.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 16:19:10


Post by: gwarsh41


 Brymm wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
uhmm going 5-0 with that list means or you were very lucky with parings ur a top player


I consistently played people with similar battle points. Not winning every game in a land slide made me play players who also didnt win by land slides. I played each game to the best of my abilities and won them.
I'm not sure if your statement was a compliment, a put down or just a statement, but it seems to be untrue. The pairings weren't particularly lucky nor am I a top tier player. I just won the games I played. Thats all you can do, am I right?


Just ignore him, dude is a salt elemental from the plane of salt.

How well did morty do? I ran him in the Dallas Open earlier this year and he was a lot more resilient than I would have thought. I imagined he would be tabled T1, but never died until post T3, generally got to kill a target or two. Faced Tau, Necrons and Marines. I did terribly, because I am terrible at tournaments, but still had some good fun.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 16:55:31


Post by: Brymm


I faced three LoWs in the event, and maybe more if two 400+ pt Forgeworld Tau suits counted. I'd have to relook at his list.
In game one Morty was assaulted by a Knight with the big chain sword after taking fire from a Baneblade variant. Morty lived and ripped it apart in his counter swing. I rolled the 12 small swings, got 4 6's for DttFE, rolled big swings, then rolled 18 damage on them. I never killed the big tank that game, just ate fire and won on objectives. Next game I played Custodians with a Vostoyran Baneblade variant that has the big gun to kill Titanic models. Killed every other model that game and never shot at it once.

The Eldar soup player didnt have any. The Tyranid player didnt have any. The final Tau player had the two big ass FW suits. Killed one, avoided the other.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Morty was in the list to eat fire and maybe live while three bloat drones and two DPs made it to their lines without having to really take a save. The bloat drones went after troops and soaked insane fire. I would run Morty in every DG list, he punishes lists that can't put out enough heavy fire to kill him and provides a sure fire way to avoid everything else in your army from being shot until he is dead.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 17:03:43


Post by: Jidmah


 Brymm wrote:
I faced three LoWs in the event, and maybe more if two 400+ pt Forgeworld Tau suits counted. I'd have to relook at his list.
In game one Morty was assaulted by a Knight with the big chain sword after taking fire from a Baneblade variant. Morty lived and ripped it apart in his counter swing. I rolled the 12 small swings, got 4 6's for DttFE, rolled big swings, then rolled 18 damage on them. I never killed the big tank that game, just ate fire and won on objectives. Next game I played Custodians with a Vostoyran Baneblade variant that has the big gun to kill Titanic models. Killed every other model that game and never shot at it once.

The Eldar soup player didnt have any. The Tyranid player didnt have any. The final Tau player had the two big ass FW suits. Killed one, avoided the other.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Morty was in the list to eat fire and maybe live while three bloat drones and two DPs made it to their lines without having to really take a save. The bloat drones went after troops and soaked insane fire. I would run Morty in every DG list, he punishes lists that can't put out enough heavy fire to kill him and provides a sure fire way to avoid everything else in your army from being shot until he is dead.


So you think Mortarion is worth taking just for being a huge fire magnet? I have thought about this before, but I never thought him to be worth that many points unless he gets to swing.

That said, I won all games I brought him, even though ne never saw turn 2... hum.

Oh yeah, and congratulations on that record, I love someone doing that well with actual plague marines like a proper Death Guard army


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 18:10:55


Post by: Brymm


Yeah, the list worked great with the mission format. It was a combination of ITC with Maelstrom cards. I practiced with the cards and found the cards gave as many or more points than the end game scoring. So I made a list that claims the center of the board, kills ObSec units and has hard to remove ObSec guys to score objectives. LoC consistently scored line breaker and made 4 of 6 deep strike charges.
Blight Launchers were great too, highly recommend them especially near the Arch Contaminator.

Another interesting note: I used almost every command point on rerolls except I interrupted combat once and auto exploded drones twice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and yeah, about Morty, he gave the opponents this false sense of security. In the final two games, my opponents acted and played as if they were winning as soon as Morty exploded. They lost because of that.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 19:04:20


Post by: blackmage


i meant, usually with that kind of list (plague marines, Mortarion that are sub par right now), in competitive is hard get 5-0 so i was wondering that's all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not even joking, this literal thing has happened before, with him and another of the usual suspects on these forums. It's a common event unfortunately. Also happened to a recent winner of another big tournament, an Eldar player who took an Avatar. He got reamed for using a 'terrible list' and that 'the tournament must have been filled with bad players'. Even though it was one of the bigger tournaments in the US, attended by some of the top ranked players in the country.


then I think you should read back better cause wasn't me for sure, or report me the lines where i said that, if not then dont state things untrue, thx.

But I guess it's like football. Armchair players always shout at the tv screen, thinking they know better than the actual coaches/players.

you can find me on Vassal for a game if you ever like, thx, wait for you there.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 20:55:13


Post by: Yoda79


Blaiming people for defending their opinion more pasinate than others and having a real good point when talking about competitive lists is not nice. State your opinion and claim your epxerience if you don't like mine ignore but none placed you here to judge others! I agree with black mage the list seems far for optimal and competitive . Seems lucky I agree but the winner explained his strat and results . Can happen but the truth is he struggled with a sub par list. Even if it did well and I don't say it didn't it was a good chunk of luck tournament rules dice etc . The list is not super refined and that's the truth!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 21:11:49


Post by: Niiru


 blackmage wrote:

you can find me on Vassal for a game if you ever like, thx, wait for you there.



I would never, ever, play a game against you or anyone like you.

Not because I think you're good and I'm scared of losing. Just because you would be zero fun to play against, win or lose.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 21:33:59


Post by: TonyH122


 Brymm wrote:
Just went 5-0 with pure Death Guard at a 100+ person GT in the great city of Lansing, MI this weekend!
Spoiler:

GTDeathGuardGT (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [107 PL, 1999pts]
Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard)
Lord of War
Mortarion
Selections: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality, 6. Curse of the Leper

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard)
No Force Org Slot
Gifts of Decay (1 Relic)
HQ
Daemon Prince of Nurgle
Selections: 3. Plague Wind, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings

Daemon Prince of Nurgle
Selections: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Fugaris' Helm, Hellforged sword, Warlord, Wings

Troops
Plague Marines
Plague Champion
Codex
Selections: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marines
Plague Champion
Codex
Selections: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marines
Plague Champion
Codex
Selections: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Blight launcher

Plague Marines
Plague Champion
Codex
Selections: Plaguesword, Plasma gun

2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Plasma gun

Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon
Selections: Plasma gun

Poxwalkers
Selections: 16x Poxwalker

Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard)
HQ
Lord of Contagion
Selections: Manreaper

Fast Attack
Foetid Bloat-drone
Selections: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone
Selections: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone
Selections: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe


Created with BattleScribe


Got dinged for a poor display board, no written theme and not winning 50-0 every game. My biggest win was 35-15. I'll be doing a whole event report this week. Death to the False Emperor!


Congrats on the wins! Looks like a really fun list to play, and play against. Looking forward to the read up. Just a question: did you find the triple plasma gun squads or the plasma + 2x blight launcher squads more useful?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 22:09:51


Post by: Brymm


The Blight Launcher squads, hands down. I would have run the 4th squad as such but didn't have the bits.
In game, being near the Warlord (10 inches with the helm!) Let me reroll wounds. Most games the Plague Marines would be alive and shooting into turn 5 because everyone had to fight/shoot the drones, Morty or the Princes. Shooting twice always at full range even when advancing with no penalty thanks to being Death Guard seals the deal. Plus rolling hot with damage rolls gives you a higher damage ceiling with no risk in blowing up.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 22:13:38


Post by: blackmage


Niiru wrote:
 blackmage wrote:

you can find me on Vassal for a game if you ever like, thx, wait for you there.



I would never, ever, play a game against you or anyone like you.

Not because I think you're good and I'm scared of losing. Just because you would be zero fun to play against, win or lose.

no doubts about that looks like you know me, that's the typical excuse i wont play cause you bad, no you wont play cause you know you ll lose (sad you cant face a incompetent armchair player like me btw), btw is ok , enjoy.
Just to finish this, i just asked him how he got a 5-0 never joked with him or his list, i just gave an honest opinion that's all, if you play a list like that in ETC here in Italy you ll get a 0-5 so i wondered and asked him, period
PS: pls anyone dont like what i say, ignore me and save our time, tysm.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/15 22:40:26


Post by: Niiru


 blackmage wrote:
Niiru wrote:
 blackmage wrote:

you can find me on Vassal for a game if you ever like, thx, wait for you there.



I would never, ever, play a game against you or anyone like you.

Not because I think you're good and I'm scared of losing. Just because you would be zero fun to play against, win or lose.

no doubts about that looks like you know me, that's the typical excuse i wont play cause you bad, no you wont play cause you know you ll lose (sad you cant face a incompetent armchair player like me btw), btw is ok , enjoy.


...as usual, your reply makes so sense to what I wrote. I never said you were bad, and I never said I'd lose, I just said you're a terrible opponent. Not because of your skills, but because of your reprehensible attitude towards other people.

But this is just getting mean now, and I have no interest in spending my time belittling you. You're already on my ignore list, and will remain so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Brymm wrote:
The Blight Launcher squads, hands down. I would have run the 4th squad as such but didn't have the bits.
In game, being near the Warlord (10 inches with the helm!) Let me reroll wounds. Most games the Plague Marines would be alive and shooting into turn 5 because everyone had to fight/shoot the drones, Morty or the Princes. Shooting twice always at full range even when advancing with no penalty thanks to being Death Guard seals the deal. Plus rolling hot with damage rolls gives you a higher damage ceiling with no risk in blowing up.



I did always wonder if plasma or blight was the way to go, they both seem to have their pros and cons. Blights are the fluffier option though, and it sounds like theyre a decent option in any case!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/16 00:32:56


Post by: COLD CASH


 Yoda79 wrote:
Blaiming people for defending their opinion more pasinate than others and having a real good point when talking about competitive lists is not nice. State your opinion and claim your epxerience if you don't like mine ignore but none placed you here to judge others! I agree with black mage the list seems far for optimal and competitive . Seems lucky I agree but the winner explained his strat and results . Can happen but the truth is he struggled with a sub par list. Even if it did well and I don't say it didn't it was a good chunk of luck tournament rules dice etc . The list is not super refined and that's the truth!


Gotta say this seems like not the best comment. In my opinion making a list to suit the format which is what he did is very smart he then piloted it to 5 wins, the only thing i didnt like was the LOC that could have been sumthing cheaper with deepstrike. But then again its a tough nut to crack for holding obj, but if you are mainly using it for linebreaker there should be cheaper options.

Congrats on the wins and a good list for the format, im to much of a fan of PBC myself so my list would be different. But cant argue with results!!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/16 13:00:54


Post by: gwarsh41


I really like blight, with plasma I feel like I need a lord or DP nearby because the 1s are spooky, and you will want to overcharge to deal big numbers. With blight, I don't need to overcharge, and I always get 2 shots. I think it's a good swap for stats that make both fairly equal. Plasma will outshine blight at 18" while overcharged, but blight will outshine plasma almost every other time, the re-roll 1s to wound (or all with arch contaminator nearby) help make up for the strength lost. Plus, it's cheaper in points, and fluffy.


I am trying a plasma bomb today. 2 units of 5 with 3 plasma each in a Terrax assault drill. Turn 2 it pops up, unloads 6 plasma guns and between those and the melta gun the drill has, I think I have some decent beta punch. Was originally going to try melta, but daaang, melta is expensive! My game this evening is 4K, so by no means do tournament style list building apply. I'll be going for high toughness saturation, the centerpiece is a Renegade Porphyrion, I am underwhelmed with it's stats on paper, but have heard good things from IK players. The general list is:

2 winged DP
malefic plaguecaster
2x5 plasma PM units
10 man CC unit
2 terrax assault drills
2 foul blightspawn
3 spitter drones
3 spitter PBC
soulburner decimator
Porphyrion

Krhorne Axe DP
skulltaker
2, 20 strong bloodletter bombs
10 bloodletters

Don't have squat for objective holding, but oh well. Usually I take a battalion or 2 of nurglings or cultists for objectives, buuuut I wanted to try bloodletter bomb again, after it did so insanely well against custodes last match! Good chunk of +T7 models, even if the porphyrion goes down quick, it will take a loot of shooting to do so. Might pop the 2CP cover strat if I go second, giving that thing a +2 save could be pretty nice.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/16 15:44:19


Post by: Brymm


The champs can hold regular plasma guns too.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/16 15:55:26


Post by: nfe


Any tips on dealing with stacked Alaitoc hit modifiers? A list full of supersonic flyers plus all the psychic powers and stratagems absolutely destroyed my ability to hit yesterday. 3xPBC in reroll aura were utterly useless, a knight managed to take two wounds off a fire prism before it got destroyed and even plaguespitters didn't achieve much since it's so easy for Eldar to stay out of range of them.

The biggest problem was fire prisms which are faster than any of our vehicles and have 60" ranges. Plaguespitters do a job against Hemlocks' (if you screen Hemlocks logical targets with FBDs or PBCs but that's rather limiting their effectiveness) but I'm stumped on a hard counter to FP spam?

Do I chuck some contemptors back in my lists for 2+ hits and lots of dice?


EDIT:

My list was

Winged DP (suppurating plate)
Lord (arch-contaminator)
3xPBC (plaguespitters)
3xFBD (plaguespitters)
7 Blightlords (plasma and axes, 1x mace)
Knight (battle cannon and thermal cannon)


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/16 15:58:16


Post by: Brymm


Sorry, I mis-read your post. You said two squads with three not the other way around.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/16 16:24:54


Post by: Primortus


This looks like a great list, and congratulations on your wins. I do have one note though and that is that the fugaris helm doesn't affect warlord traits. It only increases the range of abilities on their datasheet. I believe this was mentioned in a faq as well.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/16 18:19:45


Post by: blackmage


nfe wrote:
Any tips on dealing with stacked Alaitoc hit modifiers? A list full of supersonic flyers plus all the psychic powers and stratagems absolutely destroyed my ability to hit yesterday. 3xPBC in reroll aura were utterly useless, a knight managed to take two wounds off a fire prism before it got destroyed and even plaguespitters didn't achieve much since it's so easy for Eldar to stay out of range of them.

The biggest problem was fire prisms which are faster than any of our vehicles and have 60" ranges. Plaguespitters do a job against Hemlocks' (if you screen Hemlocks logical targets with FBDs or PBCs but that's rather limiting their effectiveness) but I'm stumped on a hard counter to FP spam?

Do I chuck some contemptors back in my lists for 2+ hits and lots of dice?


EDIT:

My list was

Winged DP (suppurating plate)
Lord (arch-contaminator)
3xPBC (plaguespitters)
3xFBD (plaguespitters)
7 Blightlords (plasma and axes, 1x mace)
Knight (battle cannon and thermal cannon)

uhave 6 models which shot 12 auto hits you should be able to deal with alaitoc, play a IK with double gatling 24 hits with re roll stratagem you should mitigate the -1/-2 to hit, prisms can have 60" but if you move properly you should be able to catch them they move just 16" and the table isn't infinite. I would think about some conptemtors or leviathan with 2xbutcher array


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/16 18:42:43


Post by: Brymm


I just reread the FAQs, not mentioned. This is news to me.
I checked YMDC and there doesn't seem to be a consensus there. Huh. My Battlescribe slaps Arch Contaminator right in there. Didn't occur to me that his Warlord aura wouldn't be affected and my opponents didn't correct me otherwise. It didn't come up that often but I know that it did more than once where I used the expanded bubble.
Anyone have anything official on this?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/16 20:02:21


Post by: nfe


 blackmage wrote:
nfe wrote:
Any tips on dealing with stacked Alaitoc hit modifiers? A list full of supersonic flyers plus all the psychic powers and stratagems absolutely destroyed my ability to hit yesterday. 3xPBC in reroll aura were utterly useless, a knight managed to take two wounds off a fire prism before it got destroyed and even plaguespitters didn't achieve much since it's so easy for Eldar to stay out of range of them.

The biggest problem was fire prisms which are faster than any of our vehicles and have 60" ranges. Plaguespitters do a job against Hemlocks' (if you screen Hemlocks logical targets with FBDs or PBCs but that's rather limiting their effectiveness) but I'm stumped on a hard counter to FP spam?

Do I chuck some contemptors back in my lists for 2+ hits and lots of dice?


EDIT:

My list was

Winged DP (suppurating plate)
Lord (arch-contaminator)
3xPBC (plaguespitters)
3xFBD (plaguespitters)
7 Blightlords (plasma and axes, 1x mace)
Knight (battle cannon and thermal cannon)

uhave 6 models which shot 12 auto hits you should be able to deal with alaitoc, play a IK with double gatling 24 hits with re roll stratagem you should mitigate the -1/-2 to hit, prisms can have 60" but if you move properly you should be able to catch them they move just 16" and the table isn't infinite. I would think about some conptemtors or leviathan with 2xbutcher array


Three of those six models basically can't move without dismissing their main weapons against an army of hit modifiers, however. I got a bit gubbed with hammer and anvil deployment that meant I had three full turns before anything with a plaguespitter could reach his lines (which were obviously backed hard against his table edge).

I know the double gatling is the received wisdom on the Knight but I need a TAC list and it's always long range armour that I find I have trouble with. In this example, the knight was killed turn one with the fire prism stratagem and if he'd had two gating cannons he wouldn't have been able to shoot a single time.

I'm thinking I might chuck the terminators and FBDs for three contemptors and two helverins.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/16 20:04:31


Post by: Brymm


According to Reddit post linking to the GW Facebook page, the question was asked and answered by GW that it does indeed work with Arch Contaminator! I am not a dirty cheat!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/16 20:25:35


Post by: Primortus


 Brymm wrote:
According to Reddit post linking to the GW Facebook page, the question was asked and answered by GW that it does indeed work with Arch Contaminator! I am not a dirty cheat!


Interesting. Can you post the link to the facebook article? Whenever I've tried to use the helm like this I've had people fight me over it, so I stopped doing it because I got tired of arguing about it. Also I wasn't trying to imply you were cheating.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/16 20:59:41


Post by: gwarsh41


It's a hot debate for some, but I do recall that GW ruled it OK, I had forgotten to look for it in the FAQ that dropped, sad to see it wasn't included. I'll check BRB book, maybe it's in their too.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/16 21:18:58


Post by: Brymm


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1927707404216556&id=1575682476085719
I can't even verify what it says as I don't have Facebook, but that link is being touted as proof.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/16 22:07:03


Post by: Niiru


Warhammer 40,000 - We agree with Chris and Dave on this - that relic would indeed effect this Warlord Trait. That's certainly how we play it here in the office!



Though I'm not sure why there is an argument on this... the relic affects all auras, the trait is an aura. Give the relic to your warlord, profit.

Anyone arguing against this is ... I mean I'd say they're rules-lawyering, but really they're just making stuff up.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/17 11:51:42


Post by: lare2


 Brymm wrote:
Just went 5-0 with pure Death Guard at a 100+ person GT in the great city of Lansing, MI this weekend!
[spoiler]
GTDeathGuardGT (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [107 PL, 1999pts]
Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard)
Lord of War
Mortarion
Selections: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality, 6. Curse of the Leper

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard)
No Force Org Slot
Gifts of Decay (1 Relic)
HQ
Daemon Prince of Nurgle
Selections: 3. Plague Wind, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Wings...........


Love this - good work! Run a similar list regularly but also regularly get smashed (I hate IG - never beat them!). You give me hope! I just need to get better - ha ha!


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/17 15:47:57


Post by: Yoda79


COLD CASH wrote:
 Yoda79 wrote:
Blaiming people for defending their opinion more pasinate than others and having a real good point when talking about competitive lists is not nice. State your opinion and claim your epxerience if you don't like mine ignore but none placed you here to judge others! I agree with black mage the list seems far for optimal and competitive . Seems lucky I agree but the winner explained his strat and results . Can happen but the truth is he struggled with a sub par list. Even if it did well and I don't say it didn't it was a good chunk of luck tournament rules dice etc . The list is not super refined and that's the truth!


Gotta say this seems like not the best comment. In my opinion making a list to suit the format which is what he did is very smart he then piloted it to 5 wins, the only thing i didnt like was the LOC that could have been sumthing cheaper with deepstrike. But then again its a tough nut to crack for holding obj, but if you are mainly using it for linebreaker there should be cheaper options.

Congrats on the wins and a good list for the format, im to much of a fan of PBC myself so my list would be different. But cant argue with results!!


I agree mybe you missed the point on my post. He did a good job playing what he liked and played it well. No argue and congrats for the results. But when someone says his opinion like black mage we can't react like m...r..ns . I clearly state this list is not super ptimisez . And it's the truth. Can it ring results sure anything can win anything . Bad play or good play tour setup missions . Has nothing to do with the opinion that this list will most likely do bad in major tournaments . My opinion if you don't like it ignore? Simple. But I believe there are after the new faq some serious issues to face and with that list or the list it self will struggle . So please tell us about the list sure let my opinion mine thanks. You cn say yours


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/17 18:22:13


Post by: blackmage


 Yoda79 wrote:
COLD CASH wrote:
 Yoda79 wrote:
Blaiming people for defending their opinion more pasinate than others and having a real good point when talking about competitive lists is not nice. State your opinion and claim your epxerience if you don't like mine ignore but none placed you here to judge others! I agree with black mage the list seems far for optimal and competitive . Seems lucky I agree but the winner explained his strat and results . Can happen but the truth is he struggled with a sub par list. Even if it did well and I don't say it didn't it was a good chunk of luck tournament rules dice etc . The list is not super refined and that's the truth!


Gotta say this seems like not the best comment. In my opinion making a list to suit the format which is what he did is very smart he then piloted it to 5 wins, the only thing i didnt like was the LOC that could have been sumthing cheaper with deepstrike. But then again its a tough nut to crack for holding obj, but if you are mainly using it for linebreaker there should be cheaper options.

Congrats on the wins and a good list for the format, im to much of a fan of PBC myself so my list would be different. But cant argue with results!!


I agree mybe you missed the point on my post. He did a good job playing what he liked and played it well. No argue and congrats for the results. But when someone says his opinion like black mage we can't react like m...r..ns . I clearly state this list is not super ptimisez . And it's the truth. Can it ring results sure anything can win anything . Bad play or good play tour setup missions . Has nothing to do with the opinion that this list will most likely do bad in major tournaments . My opinion if you don't like it ignore? Simple. But I believe there are after the new faq some serious issues to face and with that list or the list it self will struggle . So please tell us about the list sure let my opinion mine thanks. You cn say yours

fun fact is i did not offended that list player i was only wonderin how he did 5-0 with a list I think is subpar that's all but someone felt perhaps stinged attacked me for nothing.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/17 20:40:28


Post by: mokoshkana


One individual's trash list is another individual's treasure! The problem your comments (@Yoda79 and @blackmage) is that you're attacking @Brymm's list for not being optimized when he never said it was supposed to be optimized. @Brymm said he went 5-0 and both of you attacked that list straight away. If @Brymm had said "I built the the best nurgle list ever and went 5-0 because of my superior list building skills" then you could have come out with your views about it not being optimized. Perhaps next time, you might respond more appropriately with questions about how he fared the way he did, and then expand accordingly (e.g. "Hey, congrats, but your second game against Army X is not a typical result when going up against your list. You could make some adjustments to your list to get their outcome more often than not by doing XYZ).

The tactics thread is not meant to only discuss the best list possible. One can also discuss the tactical merits of building a list around a particular unit or strategy and then going for the optimization of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I'm thinking of taking DG to a tournament in November. Here is what I have so far:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ HQ +
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, Hellforged sword, Wings
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic Talons, Wings
-Typhus: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 17x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker

+ Elites +
-Deathshroud Terminators: Deathshroud Champion (w/ additional Plaguespurt gauntlets) + 2x normal Deathshroud Terminator

+ Fast Attack +
-Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe
-Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Missile launcher, Multi-melta (Squad of 3)

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ Lord of War +
Mortarion

++ Total: [103 PL, 1999pts] ++

The Deathshroud terminators would deploy next to mortarian in order to protect him until he can get across the board to wreak havoc. My question is whether I have too much ties up in the HQ slots. Here's what I have to work with additionally:
20x plague marines (2 with plasma, 2 blight launchers, and 2 with power fist and plasma)
Noxious Plaguebringer
Predator with quad Lascannon and havoc launcher
Malignant plaguecaster
LoC

Part of me thinks it could be beneficial to drop a Prince for a the noxious plaguebringer, make two bigger pox squads, and add a plague marine squad. Thoughts?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/17 21:47:13


Post by: COLD CASH


Why the pox is my question. What role and what are they strat wise gonna do?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/17 21:47:23


Post by: Salt donkey


 mokoshkana wrote:
One individual's trash list is another individual's treasure! The problem your comments (@Yoda79 and @blackmage) is that you're attacking @Brymm's list for not being optimized when he never said it was supposed to be optimized. @Brymm said he went 5-0 and both of you attacked that list straight away. If @Brymm had said "I built the the best nurgle list ever and went 5-0 because of my superior list building skills" then you could have come out with your views about it not being optimized. Perhaps next time, you might respond more appropriately with questions about how he fared the way he did, and then expand accordingly (e.g. "Hey, congrats, but your second game against Army X is not a typical result when going up against your list. You could make some adjustments to your list to get their outcome more often than not by doing XYZ).

The tactics thread is not meant to only discuss the best list possible. One can also discuss the tactical merits of building a list around a particular unit or strategy and then going for the optimization of that.


I think the key problem I have here is the assumption that it is wrong to attack someone’s list on a tactics forum. You are equating Blackmage’s attack’s of Brymm list to a personal attack. Now outside of tactical forum you might have a point, but since Byrmm posted the list and his 5-0 record here I have to suspect he wanted to display the tactical merit of his list. Blackmage attacked this merit, which I believe isn’t an unfair response. The key here is Blackmage attacked Brymm’s idea not Brymm himself. If Byrmm didn’t want to get critiques for his list being un-optimal then he should have posted it in the lists section with a title like, “2000 point, semi competive Nurgle list.” Byrmm doesn’t have to say “I built the best Nurgle list every and went 5-0 because of my superior list building skills.” to signel that he believes his list is top tier. Him posting his 5-0 record with the list is enough in my mind. You can disagree with Blackmage and Yoda’s assessment that it isn’t a competive list, but I don’t think resorting to the personal attacks like Niiru is ever a good answer.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/17 22:56:57


Post by: Brymm


I appreciate all of the conversation related to the list. It takes a lot to offend me and the opinions of folks on a Warhammer internet forum aren't going to ruffle my feathers.

About lists in the tactics thread: The list is what I designed to use at the event. It had a purpose. Each model and unit had a purpose. I know the purpose and its why I put them in the list. It would be like making a computer or designing a car: I wouldn't just add random parts or buttons. I wouldn't add buttons that didn't have a purpose. So this army had levers and buttons I could press and pull that would accomplish specific goals. I attempted to use those buttons and levers as I had intended in each game to a specific outcome. That worked out for me in each game and in the event over all. There could have been times that the goals weren't accomplished and I would have lost. But I didn't.
I didn't have infinite resources or time either. Also, there are self imposed restraints: I wanted to use pure Death Guard. I wanted to use Plague Marines. Other players may have the exact restraints and other players may have none. But that isn't even relevant to a tactics discussion.

The post and discussion about the list and the event itself in this particular forum was meant to discuss tactics. If another player comes on here and reads about my list and how I played it and how the event went and LOVES Plague Marines, they might get inspired to try it out themselves. Or if someone was on the fence about using PBCs or Bloat Drones, maybe this could help them decide. Or if someone wants to use Morty in a pure Death Guard list, this might give them some ideas. Or if someone just wants to win more games playing pure Death Guard, maybe this could help with that too.

One other thing I wanted to say is that those who say the list isn't "optimized," in which way to do you mean that? Are you talking points efficiency? Are you suggesting that there is different or better units to fill a particular role? Are you saying that models A and B and C are not good? In all seriousness, what does that mean? The internet is a strange place and hobby forums stranger still. There is a bizarre amount of hostility about a game involving toy soldiers, an intense amount of gate keeping and a heaping helping of group think about what is "good" or "bad" when it comes to playing this game.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/17 23:08:23


Post by: mokoshkana


COLD CASH wrote:
Why the pox is my question. What role and what are they strat wise gonna do?
I see the smaller units as objective grabbers, while the larger unit moves forward to wreak havoc in later turns or grab objectives on the other side of the board. I like plague marines, but I find that they die too quickly as they are a priority target, while the poxwalkers aren't really that. Even at two bigger units, the same mentality would apply. The other bonus is that they ignore morale, so every last one has to be killed.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/18 00:05:26


Post by: NurglesR0T


Niiru wrote:
Warhammer 40,000 - We agree with Chris and Dave on this - that relic would indeed effect this Warlord Trait. That's certainly how we play it here in the office!



Though I'm not sure why there is an argument on this... the relic affects all auras, the trait is an aura. Give the relic to your warlord, profit.

Anyone arguing against this is ... I mean I'd say they're rules-lawyering, but really they're just making stuff up.


It's an argument that can go both ways. The wording for the relic is that it affects auras on that units datasheet.

Warlord traits and powers are not on the datasheet so some will argue that RAW the relic doesn't increase the range.

If it had said that it just increases all aura's by 3" it would be less of an issue for some. Sadly a Facebook post isn't "official" for some and unless it's in a published FAQ/Errata they will argue all day on it. For the record, I think the intent was for it to effect all auras (as confirmed by the team on FB) and my group plays it as such as well.



Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/18 02:43:20


Post by: lindsay40k


 mokoshkana wrote:
So I'm thinking of taking DG to a tournament in November. Here is what I have so far:

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ HQ +
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, Hellforged sword, Wings
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic Talons, Wings
-Typhus: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 17x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker

+ Elites +
-Deathshroud Terminators: Deathshroud Champion (w/ additional Plaguespurt gauntlets) + 2x normal Deathshroud Terminator

+ Fast Attack +
-Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe
-Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Missile launcher, Multi-melta (Squad of 3)

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ Lord of War +
Mortarion

++ Total: [103 PL, 1999pts] ++


The Deathshroud terminators would deploy next to mortarian in order to protect him until he can get across the board to wreak havoc. My question is whether I have too much ties up in the HQ slots. Here's what I have to work with additionally:
20x plague marines (2 with plasma, 2 blight launchers, and 2 with power fist and plasma)
Noxious Plaguebringer
Predator with quad Lascannon and havoc launcher
Malignant plaguecaster
LoC

Part of me thinks it could be beneficial to drop a Prince for a the noxious plaguebringer, make two bigger pox squads, and add a plague marine squad. Thoughts?


What psychic powers is Morty bringing? Might be worth dropping the extra gauntlet for another Poxwalker - they’re going to draw most of the small arms fire and T4 5+++ is not going to last that long, and the Deathshroud are very unlikely to do much other than tank.

Not sure you’ve actually got enough Poxwalkers to justify Typhus. I’d want at least one proper horde.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/18 07:13:43


Post by: Lupus Mortem


I'm returning to 40k after a hiatus, dumped my Space Wolves and their false emperor, will be playing Death Guard. I'm not keen on playing poxwalkers and my question is-how screwed am I without them? My list consists of a battalion with 2 PM squads w/ blight launchers, 1 PM squad equipped for melee (in a Rhino), 3 Blightspawn (Rhino), Tallyman, 2 Plaguecrawlers, Bloat-Drone outriders, Nurgle Prince, Chaos Lord, Sorcerer, Malignant Caster. I won't be using this as a competitive list but winning is better than losing. Mortarion will be added with bodyguards when I'm comfortable with this "starter" list. I do own poxwalkers but in every wargame I've ever played I avoided the most weenie units. Does no poxwalkers = super bad DG list?

edits: late night posting


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/18 08:40:48


Post by: blackmage


 mokoshkana wrote:
One individual's trash list is another individual's treasure! The problem your comments (@Yoda79 and @blackmage) is that you're attacking @Brymm's list for not being optimized when he never said it was supposed to be optimized. @Brymm said he went 5-0 and both of you attacked that list straight away. If @Brymm had said "I built the the best nurgle list ever and went 5-0 because of my superior list building skills" then you could have come out with your views about it not being optimized. Perhaps next time, you might respond more appropriately with questions about how he fared the way he did, and then expand accordingly (e.g. "Hey, congrats, but your second game against Army X is not a typical result when going up against your list. You could make some adjustments to your list to get their outcome more often than not by doing XYZ).

The tactics thread is not meant to only discuss the best list possible. One can also discuss the tactical merits of building a list around a particular unit or strategy and then going for the optimization of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I'm thinking of taking DG to a tournament in November. Here is what I have so far:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ HQ +
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, Hellforged sword, Wings
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic Talons, Wings
-Typhus: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 17x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker

+ Elites +
-Deathshroud Terminators: Deathshroud Champion (w/ additional Plaguespurt gauntlets) + 2x normal Deathshroud Terminator

+ Fast Attack +
-Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe
-Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Missile launcher, Multi-melta (Squad of 3)

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ Lord of War +
Mortarion

++ Total: [103 PL, 1999pts] ++

The Deathshroud terminators would deploy next to mortarian in order to protect him until he can get across the board to wreak havoc. My question is whether I have too much ties up in the HQ slots. Here's what I have to work with additionally:
20x plague marines (2 with plasma, 2 blight launchers, and 2 with power fist and plasma)
Noxious Plaguebringer
Predator with quad Lascannon and havoc launcher
Malignant plaguecaster
LoC

Part of me thinks it could be beneficial to drop a Prince for a the noxious plaguebringer, make two bigger pox squads, and add a plague marine squad. Thoughts?


those were my ONLY 2 comments about brymm list

i meant, usually with that kind of list (plague marines, Mortarion that are sub par right now), in competitive is hard get 5-0 so i was wondering that's all.

uhmm going 5-0 with that list means or you were very lucky with parings ur a top player


i see nothing offensive or sort of attacking, i just wondered how he did 5-0 bacause in my experience (and i play regularly in ETC) that list should have tons of issues pulling a victory, nothing more nothing less than this, then if pointing out "list weakness" is considered at attack, well i can do nothing about it wasn't my intention, btw i will stop this, i have my opinion and i will keep thx for reading.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/18 09:53:32


Post by: Jidmah


 Lupus Mortem wrote:
I'm returning to 40k after a hiatus, dumped my Space Wolves and their false emperor, will be playing Death Guard. I'm not keen on playing poxwalkers and my question is-how screwed am I without them? My list consists of a battalion with 2 PM squads w/ blight launchers, 1 PM squad equipped for melee (in a Rhino), 3 Blightspawn (Rhino), Tallyman, 2 Plaguecrawlers, Bloat-Drone outriders, Nurgle Prince, Chaos Lord, Sorcerer, Malignant Caster. I won't be using this as a competitive list but winning is better than losing. Mortarion will be added with bodyguards when I'm comfortable with this "starter" list. I do own poxwalkers but in every wargame I've ever played I avoided the most weenie units. Does no poxwalkers = super bad DG list?

edits: late night posting


Depends on what meta you are playing in. In a less competitive environment plague marines are pretty good and solid troop choice, but if you are playing a very competitive environment.

In general, plague marines are better troops than what most armies have, but they are not cheap enough to compete with cultists or guardsmen.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/18 10:01:50


Post by: Lupus Mortem


 Jidmah wrote:


Depends on what meta you are playing in. In a less competitive environment plague marines are pretty good and solid troop choice, but if you are playing a very competitive environment.

In general, plague marines are better troops than what most armies have, but they are not cheap enough to compete with cultists or guardsmen.


That's good to hear. The meta where I live is kind of split between the super competitive guys and everyone else. I really want to play this faction, have started buying minis, didn't know if I was making a mistake or not. Thanks for the feedback.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/18 14:46:08


Post by: mokoshkana


 lindsay40k wrote:
 mokoshkana wrote:
So I'm thinking of taking DG to a tournament in November. Here is what I have so far:

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ HQ +
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, Hellforged sword, Wings
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic Talons, Wings
-Typhus: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 17x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker

+ Elites +
-Deathshroud Terminators: Deathshroud Champion (w/ additional Plaguespurt gauntlets) + 2x normal Deathshroud Terminator

+ Fast Attack +
-Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe
-Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Missile launcher, Multi-melta (Squad of 3)

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ Lord of War +
Mortarion

++ Total: [103 PL, 1999pts] ++


The Deathshroud terminators would deploy next to mortarian in order to protect him until he can get across the board to wreak havoc. My question is whether I have too much ties up in the HQ slots. Here's what I have to work with additionally:
20x plague marines (2 with plasma, 2 blight launchers, and 2 with power fist and plasma)
Noxious Plaguebringer
Predator with quad Lascannon and havoc launcher
Malignant plaguecaster
LoC

Part of me thinks it could be beneficial to drop a Prince for a the noxious plaguebringer, make two bigger pox squads, and add a plague marine squad. Thoughts?


What psychic powers is Morty bringing? Might be worth dropping the extra gauntlet for another Poxwalker - they’re going to draw most of the small arms fire and T4 5+++ is not going to last that long, and the Deathshroud are very unlikely to do much other than tank.

Not sure you’ve actually got enough Poxwalkers to justify Typhus. I’d want at least one proper horde.
In a three HQ setup, Mortarion would get Blades of Putrification, Miasma of Pestilence, and Gift of Contagion. Some other options would be to drop the bloat drone or drop one blight hauler (and split the other two up to form an Outrider Detachment).

Additionally I have 15 cultists and a Sorcerer in terminator armor that could be used for cheekiness to get warptime, but they don't match my paint scheme. I bought a fully painted execution force a while back, and the painting is good, but the theme is red as opposed to my white DG theme.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/18 14:50:54


Post by: nfe


nfe wrote:
Any tips on dealing with stacked Alaitoc hit modifiers? A list full of supersonic flyers plus all the psychic powers and stratagems absolutely destroyed my ability to hit yesterday. 3xPBC in reroll aura were utterly useless, a knight managed to take two wounds off a fire prism before it got destroyed and even plaguespitters didn't achieve much since it's so easy for Eldar to stay out of range of them.

The biggest problem was fire prisms which are faster than any of our vehicles and have 60" ranges. Plaguespitters do a job against Hemlocks' (if you screen Hemlocks logical targets with FBDs or PBCs but that's rather limiting their effectiveness) but I'm stumped on a hard counter to FP spam?

Do I chuck some contemptors back in my lists for 2+ hits and lots of dice?


EDIT:

My list was

Winged DP (suppurating plate)
Lord (arch-contaminator)
3xPBC (plaguespitters)
3xFBD (plaguespitters)
7 Blightlords (plasma and axes, 1x mace)
Knight (battle cannon and thermal cannon)


Tried reworking this a bit. I'm still not happy and I'd like to juggle things to have a DP for counter charges in an ideal world. Not sold on the cultists (and especially not the poxies but I don't have more cultists and can't proxy at the event that the list is for) but trying to find a way of getting a battalion in whilst keeping the Knight, armigers, leviathan, and PBCs.

I'd also like to hear people's thoughts on psychic powers to take. Miasma is a given but I'm not sure what will be best gained otherwise? PV for the poxies I guess.

Battalion
Lord (arch contaminator)
Malignant plaguecaster
10 cultists
10 cultists
10 Poxwalkers
Leviathan (2x butcher array)

Spearhead
Malignant Plaguecaster
3xPBC

Superheavy
Knight (RFBC, Thermal Cannon)
2x Armiger

2000pts. 12CPs.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/18 15:02:41


Post by: Niiru


 Lupus Mortem wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:


Depends on what meta you are playing in. In a less competitive environment plague marines are pretty good and solid troop choice, but if you are playing a very competitive environment.

In general, plague marines are better troops than what most armies have, but they are not cheap enough to compete with cultists or guardsmen.


That's good to hear. The meta where I live is kind of split between the super competitive guys and everyone else. I really want to play this faction, have started buying minis, didn't know if I was making a mistake or not. Thanks for the feedback.



There has been a recent tournament winner who used Plague Marines to good effect. They're good troops. Mixing some Plague Marines with Cultists as your troops choice would be a strong option (if you use them appropriately on the table).

Of course some people still claim a 100+ competitor grand tournament isn't a 'competitive environment', but I suspect it's more competitive than your average LFGS.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/18 15:47:23


Post by: Jidmah


I'm in a group with very good players, but the list building is very casual. My plague marines have done a way better job at scoring wins than my pox walkers have.

The main reason for me to use poxes is to sit them on objectives and have them rot there, screen entropy cannon PBCs or just to save points to fit more toys in a list with Mortarion.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/18 16:52:28


Post by: Lupus Mortem


I will pick up some cultists once I find a sufficient quantity at a good price. I'll eventually try the poxwalkers. The PMs look good on paper and are really nice minis. I lean elite in the games I play and that's what my DG are going to be for a few games anyway.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/18 19:55:36


Post by: Salt donkey


To add to the discussion I’ll throw in some thoughts on plagueburst crawlers vs bloat drones. In my opinion, they’re both great. My main list runs 3 plague burst crawlers and 2 drones in it. That being said I think plagueburst crawlers are slightly better. Being T 8 is a big deal, and the 2 extra wounds are extremely good. To that end I think people often are using their crawlers wrong. Based on what i’ve seen in YouTube battle reports, most people prefer to hold their plaguebutst crawlers back and shoot with the mortar. This seems wrong to me. In my mind plagueburst crawlers should should be used to take the center of the board. This way you get more use out of their flamers (the crawlers strongest weapons) and gain board presence. Sure they can get more easily tide up in CC by being more toward, but that problebly means they will have flamed the assualting unit twice and I always keep CC units (drones and a daemon prince) near my crawlers to counter charge, Even if they do get locked in CC, they will at least keep the CC unit distracted for while,not the worst since crawlers are only 140 points.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/18 20:13:12


Post by: Zid


Salt donkey wrote:
To add to the discussion I’ll throw in some thoughts on plagueburst crawlers vs bloat drones. In my opinion, they’re both great. My main list runs 3 plague burst crawlers and 2 drones in it. That being said I think plagueburst crawlers are slightly better. Being T 8 is a big deal, and the 2 extra wounds are extremely good. To that end I think people often are using their crawlers wrong. Based on what i’ve seen in YouTube battle reports, most people prefer to hold their plaguebutst crawlers back and shoot with the mortar. This seems wrong to me. In my mind plagueburst crawlers should should be used to take the center of the board. This way you get more use out of their flamers (the crawlers strongest weapons) and gain board presence. Sure they can get more easily tide up in CC by being more toward, but that problebly means they will have flamed the assualting unit twice and I always keep CC units (drones and a daemon prince) near my crawlers to counter charge, Even if they do get locked in CC, they will at least keep the CC unit distracted for while,not the worst since crawlers are only 140 points.


They both have a lot of merits, but there are a lot of factors to put here:

Bloat drones - S6, 10 wounds, T7. They have fly, move faster, and cannot be pinned down. They have the best ranged option in the book, and a way to get there and use it; plus a good CC weapon. Plus they ignore terrain.

PBC's - S7, 12 wounds, T8. They are slower, but have more guns that (situationally) do things. They are much, much, MUCH harder to kill as well. They have no CC weapon, and can get locked down with bad placement.

Now, you need to toss in all the possible buffs you can do; Drones can get things like Virulent Blessing or Blades of Putrefaction and actually do pretty good CC damage. On the flip side, they are only str 6, and unlikely to get any buffs other than a DP. PBC's can make use of things like Poxbringers to become Str 8... and do D2! Str 8 D2 flamers?! yes please.

But it really boils down to your list, what you want to do with it, and how it plays. The way I play, Bloat Drones have done horribly for me; I always lose them early with minimal impact, and they cost more than a PBC. PBC's for me are the bees-knees, I rarely lose them early, they do a ton of damage, and act as a Bulwark for the rest of my list. I always build around them; poxbrikngers and arch contaminator are common in my list to support them. This means I can realiably hurt anything in the game on a 4+, with rerolls... huzzah.

So you can make a case for both.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/19 19:41:08


Post by: Salt donkey


 Zid wrote:
Salt donkey wrote:
To add to the discussion I’ll throw in some thoughts on plagueburst crawlers vs bloat drones. In my opinion, they’re both great. My main list runs 3 plague burst crawlers and 2 drones in it. That being said I think plagueburst crawlers are slightly better. Being T 8 is a big deal, and the 2 extra wounds are extremely good. To that end I think people often are using their crawlers wrong. Based on what i’ve seen in YouTube battle reports, most people prefer to hold their plaguebutst crawlers back and shoot with the mortar. This seems wrong to me. In my mind plagueburst crawlers should should be used to take the center of the board. This way you get more use out of their flamers (the crawlers strongest weapons) and gain board presence. Sure they can get more easily tide up in CC by being more toward, but that problebly means they will have flamed the assualting unit twice and I always keep CC units (drones and a daemon prince) near my crawlers to counter charge, Even if they do get locked in CC, they will at least keep the CC unit distracted for while,not the worst since crawlers are only 140 points.


They both have a lot of merits, but there are a lot of factors to put here:

Bloat drones - S6, 10 wounds, T7. They have fly, move faster, and cannot be pinned down. They have the best ranged option in the book, and a way to get there and use it; plus a good CC weapon. Plus they ignore terrain.

PBC's - S7, 12 wounds, T8. They are slower, but have more guns that (situationally) do things. They are much, much, MUCH harder to kill as well. They have no CC weapon, and can get locked down with bad placement.

Now, you need to toss in all the possible buffs you can do; Drones can get things like Virulent Blessing or Blades of Putrefaction and actually do pretty good CC damage. On the flip side, they are only str 6, and unlikely to get any buffs other than a DP. PBC's can make use of things like Poxbringers to become Str 8... and do D2! Str 8 D2 flamers?! yes please.

But it really boils down to your list, what you want to do with it, and how it plays. The way I play, Bloat Drones have done horribly for me; I always lose them early with minimal impact, and they cost more than a PBC. PBC's for me are the bees-knees, I rarely lose them early, they do a ton of damage, and act as a Bulwark for the rest of my list. I always build around them; poxbrikngers and arch contaminator are common in my list to support them. This means I can realiably hurt anything in the game on a 4+, with rerolls... huzzah.

So you can make a case for both.


List will make a big differenc I agree, if you lack super mobile in you list then you’re better off with the drones. That being said it’s pretty easy to get mobile options in the form of PLAGUE drones, morty, thousand son allies, etc. I do like drones with flesh mowers, but that’s a different type of unit then the flamer drones. As far as flamer drones CC ability goes, I have to say it’s problably worth around 5 points. 3 attacks hitting on 4s just isn’t that great. Yeah it can be handy in a pinch, but not something to be relied on. Buffing it sounds like a similar proposition, It’s an option if you need it, but not something you should plan on doing. Overall I just think plagueburst crawlers are too busted to not be used, and the fact you use them in your list over drones is a good indicator of this.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/25 04:54:01


Post by: Lupus Mortem


First, this thread has been both a huge help designing my 1st DG list and an enjoyable read to boot. Thanks.

My question concerns anti-tank options. I originally planned on 2 Plagueburst Crawlers in my 2k pure DG non-competitive but hopefully brutal list. Then I kicked around the idea of an Alpha Legion Spearhead detachment with a sorcerer (I could use some Warptime) 2x Havocs, and 1x Obliterators. Now I'm looking at Hellbrutes with twin lascannons, missile launchers, and BS 3+ beating the PBC's in that skill. I'm kind of stuck on what to go with. The local meta is a couple different groups with varied kind of forces, leaning maybe 1/3 pure competitive players. I am taking a Vanguard of 3x Blightspawn (primed & ready to paint, starting on them tonight) but knowing I have strong long-range firepower will make me feel a LOT better those first few games with DG.

So, what are the merits of those 3 anti-tank options and which is better-2 PBC's; Alpha Legion Havocs & Obliterators; Hellbrutes w/ Lascannons/missile launchers?


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/25 06:51:04


Post by: Primortus


 Lupus Mortem wrote:
First, this thread has been both a huge help designing my 1st DG list and an enjoyable read to boot. Thanks.

My question concerns anti-tank options. I originally planned on 2 Plagueburst Crawlers in my 2k pure DG non-competitive but hopefully brutal list. Then I kicked around the idea of an Alpha Legion Spearhead detachment with a sorcerer (I could use some Warptime) 2x Havocs, and 1x Obliterators. Now I'm looking at Hellbrutes with twin lascannons, missile launchers, and BS 3+ beating the PBC's in that skill. I'm kind of stuck on what to go with. The local meta is a couple different groups with varied kind of forces, leaning maybe 1/3 pure competitive players. I am taking a Vanguard of 3x Blightspawn (primed & ready to paint, starting on them tonight) but knowing I have strong long-range firepower will make me feel a LOT better those first few games with DG.

So, what are the merits of those 3 anti-tank options and which is better-2 PBC's; Alpha Legion Havocs & Obliterators; Hellbrutes w/ Lascannons/missile launchers?


Your best bet for the Anti-tank is Havocs and obliterators. PBC's aren't the best AT option because they hit on a 4+ while standing still and take a -1 penalty if they move. Their job is to be a distraction carnifex/Anti-infantry with the plaguespiiters, the few mortar shots that land are just a bonus but not super reliable. Helbrutes are a good option especially in a deathguard army because they benefit from Inexorable Advance, but they are more expensive than havocs/Obliterator. Plus you want to bring a CSM detachment anyways to give you access to warptime/prescience so you might as well.

In regards to your troop choices mentioned above, I would consider CCW cultists. A unit of 40 can be given Blades* and Vitality so they're S4 T4 with a +1 to wound in melee for a total of 80 attacks that are wounding GEQs on a 2+. That's really good for a 4 point unit. You can also hide them with Cloud of Flies or even give them a further +1 to wound with VotLW or give them a -1 to be hit. There are a lot of options. If you run into morale troubles just use 2CP for the auto pass. I'd recommend at least 2 full blobs, it's been very successful for me.

Also, if you take that alpha legion detachment you were considering that will unlock the Tide of Traitors stratagem as well.

*The Blades of Putrefaction spell has two effects; +1 to wound and an additional mortal wound on a wound roll of 7+ if you're attacking with a plague weapon. The first part doesn't require a plague weapon, so your cultists will get the +1 to wound.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/25 09:23:24


Post by: Lupus Mortem


Awesome advice, Primortis. I'm going to scour Ebay for a decent deal on Chaos Cultists. The Alpha Legion is in. As far as the stratagems I might not have caught their effectiveness right away on my own. Cheers.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/25 14:10:54


Post by: Brymm


The anti tank spot has always been tricky for Death Gaurd. In fact I feel if you're running pure DG, options to fulfill that role exclusively don't really fit with how the army operates. Perhaps Helbrutes because they would benefit from the Legion trait and be hitting with Heavy on 3s while moving.
So I guess it really depends how the rest of your army functions. The style of list I run doesn't have any heavy guns sitting back and doesn't really use dedicated anti-tank. I rely on lots of special weapons like Blight Launchers and Plasma paires with heavy autohitting volume from Plaguespitters and devestating close combat from Daemon Princes and Morty. Plus Smites.
I've tried Blight Haulers and did like the option of multiple D6 damage guns, but found Morty to be better for filling other roles.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/25 17:57:46


Post by: Lupus Mortem


 Brymm wrote:
The anti tank spot has always been tricky for Death Gaurd. In fact I feel if you're running pure DG, options to fulfill that role exclusively don't really fit with how the army operates. Perhaps Helbrutes because they would benefit from the Legion trait and be hitting with Heavy on 3s while moving.
So I guess it really depends how the rest of your army functions. The style of list I run doesn't have any heavy guns sitting back and doesn't really use dedicated anti-tank. I rely on lots of special weapons like Blight Launchers and Plasma paires with heavy autohitting volume from Plaguespitters and devestating close combat from Daemon Princes and Morty. Plus Smites.
I've tried Blight Haulers and did like the option of multiple D6 damage guns, but found Morty to be better for filling other roles.


Getting tricky with the list and using lots of special weapons in the place of AT is something I plan on trying after I'm comfortable with everything else. Use of the list will most likely evolve. I picked up Mortarion last weekend and when he's included everything will change. It's going to be a process. DG isn't the mono Space Wolves I played out of the Index, the last army I played.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/26 03:09:56


Post by: lindsay40k


 Lupus Mortem wrote:
Awesome advice, Primortis. I'm going to scour Ebay for a decent deal on Chaos Cultists.

Have you considered repurposing Sigmar stuff? If you don’t want the Flamers pushing up the unit cost, and can acquire a load of appropriate pistols, Plague Monks make decent Nurgley cultists. Also, crypt ghouls are pretty cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Second Cultist hordes, btw. I think there’s things to be said for gunners as well as stabbers. That 18” double tap...


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/26 04:21:07


Post by: Lupus Mortem


 lindsay40k wrote:

Have you considered repurposing Sigmar stuff? If you don’t want the Flamers pushing up the unit cost, and can acquire a load of appropriate pistols, Plague Monks make decent Nurgley cultists. Also, crypt ghouls are pretty cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Second Cultist hordes, btw. I think there’s things to be said for gunners as well as stabbers. That 18” double tap...


I've considered it but the Sigmar stuff looks too fantasy for me. Which is fine because they're fantasy. I actually dig the cultists in the 5 mini box. Those gas masks are cool. If I can score some for $10-ish a box I may go that route.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/10/30 08:23:12


Post by: Sherrypie


Regarding long range fire, Forge World dreadnoughts also benefit from being Death Guard. I like running midfield Contemptors or pushing them through someone's face, but you could as well equip them for fire support duty. Leviathans are also pretty tasty, if a bit pricey.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/11/02 10:26:08


Post by: Zid


My ranged at falls on pbcs and a knights detachment. Forgeworld dreads work as well. If you wanna break into csm, oblits work alright as well.


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/11/02 11:20:35


Post by: lindsay40k


The main CSM thread is considering Deredeos as more efficient midfield gunners than Leviathans

More PPM than a Helverin but tougher and can benefit from buffs, whereas the latter is more self-sufficient


Death Guard Tactica @ 2018/11/04 18:37:18


Post by: Radikus


Are we expecting any changes in CA? The knight meta has been pretty brutal for mono DG (even allied DG). I suspect knights will get nerfed a bit which will bring us back up. Best I am hoping for is a decrease in maybe in plague marines? Wishful thinking.