The idea of based vehicles is interesting. I wonder if they're rules (in 40K) will specify the base as opposed to "any point on the model." Won't make a huge difference, but it will make them unique among non-walker vehicles. I would tend towards building them without the bases, otherwise.
I guess the proof will be in the rules, and if the next set of vehicle releases/re-releases comes with bases. Leman Russ on a base? Baneblade on a base???
Fantasy has had all its machines, monsters and such on bases for a long while now. 40K has also had many monsters and skimmers on bases. In the past it was mostly a practicalities question - ergo if the model could stand alone without base it never had one; whilst now its more a case of steadily putting most models onto a suitable base for standardizing.
It might appear odd to many, but if "to the base" is how every model is measured then it stands to reason that tanks and other vehicles should also have bases.
plus putting vehicles on bases stops them attacking models more than 1" from the ground.. no more using a battlewagon say to run people on the 1st floor over
beerbeard wrote: The idea of based vehicles is interesting. I wonder if they're rules (in 40K) will specify the base as opposed to "any point on the model."
The current rules in 40K don't differentiate between vehicles and non-vehicles when it comes to measurement. If it has a base, that is where you measure to and from unless the datasheet says otherwise.
leopard wrote: plus putting vehicles on bases stops them attacking models more than 1" from the ground.. no more using a battlewagon say to run people on the 1st floor over
Which is stupid. Here's this dreadnought with claw in face of an enemy and can't attack. Sheesh. Nevermind gorkanaut etc.
Also this will result in vehicles unable to enter roads they logically could enter because the base gets in the way.
CassianSol wrote: The repulsor has had a base for months and literally nobody has ever had an issue with it. You need to chill and stop inventing problems.
Don't like a base? Don't use it
isn't the base on the repulsive smaller than the model though? and hence unlikely to do anything other than its prime function - stopping the thing from falling over?
thinking like the new oval bases the bikes in Speed Freekz appear to be on, wider than the current ones
CassianSol wrote: The repulsor has had a base for months and literally nobody has ever had an issue with it. You need to chill and stop inventing problems.
Don't like a base? Don't use it
isn't the base on the repulsive smaller than the model though? and hence unlikely to do anything other than its prime function - stopping the thing from falling over?
thinking like the new oval bases the bikes in Speed Freekz appear to be on, wider than the current ones
From the Repulsor's datasheet:
Hover Tank: Distances and ranges are always measured to and from this model’s hull, even though it has a base.
CassianSol wrote: The repulsor has had a base for months and literally nobody has ever had an issue with it. You need to chill and stop inventing problems.
Don't like a base? Don't use it
Yeah I'm sure that helps deff dread when repulsor has specifically rule to overcome that nerf and top of that base is smaller than the model to begin with. Thus none of the issues that the base causes affects repulsor.
Nice case of comparing apples and oranges. Howabout don't do dishonest arqument? Your credibility is pretty low when you compare 2 totally different things.
Oh and for last one yeah I'm sure modelling for advantage goes well in tournaments.
CassianSol wrote: The repulsor has had a base for months and literally nobody has ever had an issue with it. You need to chill and stop inventing problems.
Don't like a base? Don't use it
isn't the base on the repulsive smaller than the model though? and hence unlikely to do anything other than its prime function - stopping the thing from falling over?
thinking like the new oval bases the bikes in Speed Freekz appear to be on, wider than the current ones
From the Repulsor's datasheet:
Hover Tank: Distances and ranges are always measured to and from this model’s hull, even though it has a base.
exactly, the thing has a base to stop it falling over, no other purpose
leopard wrote: thinking like the new oval bases the bikes in Speed Freekz appear to be on, wider than the current ones
I believe they are 75x40mm oval bases. I have had my Ork Warbikez on them since last year.
my 'problem', if its that really is they are different to the bases the bikes from the kult of speed box came with, so would look a bit daft next to them, may have to get some normal bike bases
CassianSol wrote: The repulsor has had a base for months and literally nobody has ever had an issue with it. You need to chill and stop inventing problems.
Don't like a base? Don't use it
Does the Repulsor have wheels or treads? Hmmm. Good try, but not relevant. Is there any vehicle currently in the game that is relevant?
Games Workshop wrote:Over the past few weeks, you guys have patiently waited as we’ve revealed the new Codex: Orks, new Ork buggies and Speed Freeks. Well, the wait is almost over – next week, Speed Freeks will be available for you to pre-order!
beerbeard wrote: The idea of based vehicles is interesting. I wonder if they're rules (in 40K) will specify the base as opposed to "any point on the model." Won't make a huge difference, but it will make them unique among non-walker vehicles. I would tend towards building them without the bases, otherwise.
I guess the proof will be in the rules, and if the next set of vehicle releases/re-releases comes with bases. Leman Russ on a base? Baneblade on a base???
I like the idea... I've personally been to tournaments where a guy was like 1cm out of range so he moved his las cannon out and was suddenly in range... and then moved it back in to get out of range... that crap sucks...
SemperMortis wrote: Yeah.....I have 250ish Boyz, 30 Lootas, 50 Stormboyz, 45 Kommandos, 20 Tankbustas, 15 Burna Boyz, and at least 40 Nobz.....I DO NOT WANT TO REBASE THESE.
Ashkayel wrote: Exclusive to this box? I already have 13 bikers and I don't like the dragsta, so if the buggies are really exclusive to the box, it means no Kustom Boomblasta for me
So a buddy of mine owns a gaming/comic book store and he asked his GW rep about why there were no Orks for Orktober. Apparently the guys in marketing came up with Orktober without even asking anyone else like production if it would be possible.
Don’t get your hopes up, especially for the codex. Rumors are it’s not going to be out before November.
I'll be skipping the Speed freaks box. I like all of 1 model in the box and doubt I'll ever play the game. There will be low resale value with the War bikes. Wish they sold it with out the War bikers as an option but I guess it doesn't matter.
Looks like my shopping list is down to a codex, any cards and dice sets and as far as I know now that's it.
The timing sucks for me too. After this Saturday i'll be lucky to get 1 more game in this year. What's a Warboss to do ?
aracersss wrote: anyone thinks all five buggies will be monobuild?
Think at this point the "Ork Buggy" as we know it is out in favor of more unique entries like we're seeing. Will be interesting to know if the wartrack is still a thing.
aracersss wrote: anyone thinks all five buggies will be monobuild?
Think at this point the "Ork Buggy" as we know it is out in favor of more unique entries like we're seeing. Will be interesting to know if the wartrack is still a thing.
~iPaint
I'm guessing all that is indexed when Novembork 3rd (hopefully no later than that) comes around. The models are old and most of those niches are probably filled by one of the new vehicles, albeit at a higher point cost most likely
Nostromodamus wrote: “Correct” base is the one it comes with according to GW though, meaning no need to rebase. Not sure how you can “guarantee” GW event will make you measure, for example, 12” + 7mm.
Because they do in AoS. There is a document of correct base sizes and you are required to measure that way, which, as I have already said, is impossible in practice and so it is a disguised demand to rebase.
People keep bringing up AOS rebasing. AOS has people still playing with old 20-25mm square bases mixed with all the new huge round bases. I can see wanting a standard.
It also makes it more difficult to play alternatives to AOS, like KOW, etc..., once you've rebased to rounds.
40K is not quite the same situation. GW has just started putting everything on an ever-expanding range of larger round and oval bases on miniatures people have been playing with for decades.
AOS is like what 3 years old? With a vast majority of its line being released during that time, how much rebasing did anyone using AOS models, and not old Warhammer Fantasy models have to do?
adamsouza wrote: AOS is like what 3 years old? With a vast majority of its line being released during that time, how much rebasing did anyone using AOS models, and not old Warhammer Fantasy models have to do?
I can tell you my 40 plastic Plaguebearers all came with 25mm rounds and now the legal base size for them is 32mm rounds.
lolman1c wrote: some dude on the facebook group posted this:
So a buddy of mine owns a gaming/comic book store and he asked his GW rep about why there were no Orks for Orktober. Apparently the guys in marketing came up with Orktober without even asking anyone else like production if it would be possible.
Don’t get your hopes up, especially for the codex. Rumors are it’s not going to be out before November.
I mean this is kind of lies. Ork book seems to be on pre-order the weekend after next, which will be the 27th - in stores for the 3rd November. Count that as you will - but that's not some disconnect between marketing and production, it's orks going on pre-order in time to be the big new thing in the WD released in October.
October is the Ork hype month, all the previews, sneak peaks etc in the week or two before they come out to preorder at the end of the month with a few less focused articles spread earlier out. November is the big run up to Christmas, and December is quieter and more about the year in review.
It's not some disconnect between marketing and production (which would be crazy, or production's fault if they were only late by two weeks), it's what they've done for pretty much everyone else - just people have assumed that Orktober is when you get your hands on the stuff, rather than when they are publishing articles.
I do hope GW learn from this though, or Dakka is going to be unbearable once Sisters aren't up for preorder on Jan 1st. From the Q&A they did at the UK GamesExpo, it does seem a bit that they aren't great at separating what they know from what the fans know/expect. They seemed a little surprised by the question about whether Space wolves/orks would be getting new models - saying "all the last set of releases got new models", without realising the trend doesn't go that far back.
There's a speedfreeks video on the Japan 40k site that shows there is a targeter squig and a grot gunner for the techy gun for the Dragsta. So hopefully that mean bs4+.
Tastyfish wrote:I do hope GW learn from this though, or Dakka is going to be unbearable once Sisters aren't up for preorder on Jan 1st.
Given they’ve never said they would be, it would be another mess of the fans’ making, like the expectations built around a one-word month pun have been.
I'm really looking forward to the warbiker rules, but what is really intriguing is going to be the cost. You guys poo pooing their inclusion in the box are forgetting that they were not listed as one of the nonviable units in the French video, and you must be forgetting just how good they were in 7th.
TedNugent wrote: I'm really looking forward to the warbiker rules, but what is really intriguing is going to be the cost. You guys poo pooing their inclusion in the box are forgetting that they were not listed as one of the nonviable units in the French video, and you must be forgetting just how good they were in 7th.
Same, though to be fair, I think a lot of people are looking at bikes in general this edition and are cautious of getting too excited for them. Are there any good bike units other than eldar stuff?
But if you give the dakkaguns another shot each and drop them a few points I think they could have some real potential. Especially considering clan traits and possibly some stratagems..
Tastyfish wrote:I do hope GW learn from this though, or Dakka is going to be unbearable once Sisters aren't up for preorder on Jan 1st.
Given they’ve never said they would be, it would be another mess of the fans’ making, like the expectations built around a one-word month pun have been.
Let's hope releases aren't stretched out to Janu-Waaaaagh_ry!
I still want to add some vanes to a buggy and a pointy ear mask to an Ork driver for a Bat-Ork vibe.
TedNugent wrote: I'm really looking forward to the warbiker rules, but what is really intriguing is going to be the cost. You guys poo pooing their inclusion in the box are forgetting that they were not listed as one of the nonviable units in the French video, and you must be forgetting just how good they were in 7th.
Same, though to be fair, I think a lot of people are looking at bikes in general this edition and are cautious of getting too excited for them. Are there any good bike units other than eldar stuff?
But if you give the dakkaguns another shot each and drop them a few points I think they could have some real potential. Especially considering clan traits and possibly some stratagems..
Scout Bikes, Custode bikes, shining spears, Drukhari bikes are pretty good as well.
TedNugent wrote: I'm really looking forward to the warbiker rules, but what is really intriguing is going to be the cost. You guys poo pooing their inclusion in the box are forgetting that they were not listed as one of the nonviable units in the French video, and you must be forgetting just how good they were in 7th.
Same, though to be fair, I think a lot of people are looking at bikes in general this edition and are cautious of getting too excited for them. Are there any good bike units other than eldar stuff?
But if you give the dakkaguns another shot each and drop them a few points I think they could have some real potential. Especially considering clan traits and possibly some stratagems..
Scout Bikes, Custode bikes, shining spears, Drukhari bikes are pretty good as well.
Half that list IS the "eldar stuff". So basically scout bikes and custodes bikes. Ork bikers won't be anywhere near style of custodes bikes so guess best you could hope is hefty price decrease, extra shot or two and MW on flee strategem to make them like scout bikes.
To be fair, eldar wind rinders suck big time. When our local eldar players brings his all jetbike army. it usually ends up tabled by turn 3, similar to ork bikes.
IMO orks warbikers will succeed or fail depending on their point costs and whether exhaust cloud makes a comeback to protect them.
Having 6 bikes in the kit would be a pretty nice small force to add to my collection. I honestly hope they get a huge price decrease (25% would be nice but might be just a dream). And perhaps get an automatic 6" advance.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: To be fair, eldar wind rinders suck big time. When our local eldar players brings his all jetbike army. it usually ends up tabled by turn 3, similar to ork bikes.
IMO orks warbikers will succeed or fail depending on their point costs and whether exhaust cloud makes a comeback to protect them.
I've seen a few eldar armies bring unique builds and get tabled. But normally it's in an elite tournament environment where every single unit needs to be efficient or you're already behind. In casual games they're not amazing but they're not auto lose. (This might just be from the games I've seen though). However, Ork bikers just get smashed even in casual games.... but again, this is in the games I've seen and everyone might have different experiences.
TedNugent wrote: I'm really looking forward to the warbiker rules, but what is really intriguing is going to be the cost. You guys poo pooing their inclusion in the box are forgetting that they were not listed as one of the nonviable units in the French video, and you must be forgetting just how good they were in 7th.
Same, though to be fair, I think a lot of people are looking at bikes in general this edition and are cautious of getting too excited for them. Are there any good bike units other than eldar stuff?
But if you give the dakkaguns another shot each and drop them a few points I think they could have some real potential. Especially considering clan traits and possibly some stratagems..
Scout Bikes, Custode bikes, shining spears, Drukhari bikes are pretty good as well.
Half that list IS the "eldar stuff". So basically scout bikes and custodes bikes. Ork bikers won't be anywhere near style of custodes bikes so guess best you could hope is hefty price decrease, extra shot or two and MW on flee strategem to make them like scout bikes.
Am I missing any? if so, crying foul because "Half the list is eldar" seems a bit silly because half the bike units in 40k are Eldar of some flavor, and I've seen the majority of that list show up in tournament lists.
Bikes are not a problem. Index pricing of bikes is a problem. Marine bikes are still index priced, as are ork bikes, and those are the big ones you don't see.
Looks like retailers are just getting the pricing info in for Speed Freeks
Model Kits for Less has just posted that it's £90, which is a bit more than I was hoping for with not all of it being new, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised
Am I missing any? if so, crying foul because "Half the list is eldar" seems a bit silly because half the bike units in 40k are Eldar of some flavor, and I've seen the majority of that list show up in tournament lists.
Bikes are not a problem. Index pricing of bikes is a problem. Marine bikes are still index priced, as are ork bikes, and those are the big ones you don't see.
Just Tomblades I reckon. Also should include Nob bikerz if you're adding different flavours of eldar bikes too. But, yes, 1/3 of all bikes are Eldar.
Am I missing any? if so, crying foul because "Half the list is eldar" seems a bit silly because half the bike units in 40k are Eldar of some flavor, and I've seen the majority of that list show up in tournament lists.
Bikes are not a problem. Index pricing of bikes is a problem. Marine bikes are still index priced, as are ork bikes, and those are the big ones you don't see.
And how many of those are good? Regular marine bikes I have never heard being praised in 8th...Or ravenwing...
Only ones who are consistently good with bikes is eldars but then again eldars are eldars. Orks aren't eldars and don't have consistently good rules like eldars have.
Saying ork warbikes are good because eldars have good bikes is dishonest. Eldars tend to have better than average chance of being good so them having good bikes isn't indicative that ork bikers will be good.
Am I missing any? if so, crying foul because "Half the list is eldar" seems a bit silly because half the bike units in 40k are Eldar of some flavor, and I've seen the majority of that list show up in tournament lists.
Bikes are not a problem. Index pricing of bikes is a problem. Marine bikes are still index priced, as are ork bikes, and those are the big ones you don't see.
And how many of those are good? Regular marine bikes I have never heard being praised in 8th...Or ravenwing...
Only ones who are consistently good with bikes is eldars but then again eldars are eldars. Orks aren't eldars and don't have consistently good rules like eldars have.
Saying ork warbikes are good because eldars have good bikes is dishonest. Eldars tend to have better than average chance of being good so them having good bikes isn't indicative that ork bikers will be good.
How quickly people forget just how "consistently" Dark Eldar and Harlequins have had good rules...
My overall point is not "eldar bikes are good therefore ork bikes will be good." my point is that bikes in general have found a pretty decent niche in 8th ed, because mobility is still a fairly useful thing for a unit to hang their hat on. Ork bikes definitely don't seem to be a "broken unit" whose rules need a total overhaul to be useful - they just need to be priced appropriately for their power.
On this basis expecting buggies to be a max of £35-40
Ouch! This is my biggest complaint with Orks. They're real life pricing. For some reason GW thinks £30-40 for what should be a cheap pts unit is acceptable. Look at the mek gunz for example, or the storm boyz.. £90 seems a little expensive (was hoping for £75).
But, let's analyse this. GW does say that it will cost less than all the models separately so...
90-48 (bikers) = 42. 42÷ 2 =16 so yeah... we're looking at £30-40 for the buggies. Our only hope is they include the price of the scenery and the matt which might make the buggies about £25 each.
On this basis expecting buggies to be a max of £35-40
Ouch! This is my biggest complaint with Orks. They're real life pricing. For some reason GW thinks £30-40 for what should be a cheap pts unit is acceptable. Look at the mek gunz for example, or the storm boyz.. £90 seems a little expensive (was hoping for £75).
Storm Boyz are 5 for $25. They have been for some time, and comparing them to an equivalent unit(Assault Marines had been $35 at the time) from the time you'd see they're cheaper than most expected.
Da Vulcha Skwad Box is apparently still available and it nets you a $12.25 discount on Stormboyz.
Additionally, Mek Gunz are one of the things they've specifically called out themselves as being too expensive. They're a candidate for reboxing or discount boxes. We'll have to see if they get some.
On this basis expecting buggies to be a max of £35-40
Ouch! This is my biggest complaint with Orks. They're real life pricing. For some reason GW thinks £30-40 for what should be a cheap pts unit is acceptable. Look at the mek gunz for example, or the storm boyz.. £90 seems a little expensive (was hoping for £75).
Storm Boyz are 5 for $25. They have been for some time, and comparing them to an equivalent unit(Assault Marines had been $35 at the time) from the time you'd see they're cheaper than most expected.
Da Vulcha Skwad Box is apparently still available and it nets you a $12.25 discount on Stormboyz.
Additionally, Mek Gunz are one of the things they've specifically called out themselves as being too expensive. They're a candidate for reboxing or discount boxes. We'll have to see if they get some.
The difference is Stormboyz are a 40pts unit that has a 6 up save and no deep strike. An Assualt squad is a 65pts unit (likely more with all the special weapons) with a 3+ save and DS. You could buy 1 or 2 boxes of Assualt marines and happily add them to you army in 1 or 2 squads with no problem or need to buy more. To run stormboyz effectively you're looking at 20- 30 unit blobs minimum with at least 2 blobs. Even if you ran just 1 30 man blob you're looking at $150. I mean, the rules encourage it by giving them moral bonuses for bigger blobs and there is no way I'm running a 5 man S4 6+save unit that takes (not deals) mortal wounds on a 1 for advancing and charging.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm hearing on ither sites the price is being listed for £95 (forgebane price).
The difference is Stormboyz are a 40pts unit that has a 6 up save and no deep strike. An Assualt squad is a 65pts unit (likely more with all the special weapons) with a 3+ save and DS. You could buy 1 or 2 boxes of Assualt marines and happily add them to you army 2ith no problem. To run stormboyz effectively you're looking at 20- 30 unit blobs minimum with at least 2. Even if you ran just 1 30 man blob you're looking at $150.
Yeah, I get it. They're expensive to run in large numbers. They're still cheaper than Scions at $35 for the same number of models per box.
Or are you going to say that "Scions have a 4+ save" next?
You're also ignoring that at the time of their introduction, the only similar plastic unit(Assault Squad) was $10 more--and that same unit is now $16 more.
I'm going to throw something out there and say painboys going from 5+ to 6+ was rough.
My mind keeps going back to painboys when I think about blood axe and death skull and snakebite strategems.
Snakebite 6+++ will be cancelled out by painboys aura. It will possibly not be usable on vehicles. The death skull 6++ will be useless on vehicles apart from lascannons and meltas, but will be useful on boys and characters as well as going nicely with painboys aura for a little oomph, with the downside of being worthless when the enemy has no AP even on boys.
The blood axe strategems seems most broadly useful, especially on trukks, warbikes, good on boys and fabulous on kommandos. The only downside is that it is irrelevant in combat, but provides the most durability increase against shooting.
All of these seem inferior to the evil Suns trait on foot mobs, which it seems would benefit most strongly from the advance, charge and movement, especially shootas boys.
The faster units like bikes and storm boys I am on the fence about but lean towards the durability clans.
I have no idea how anybody can seriously consider the blood moons and Goff clan traits. The goffs one seems like overkill and the bad moons one is only maybe worth gaming for DDD with hit modifiers.
TedNugent wrote: I'm going to throw something out there and say painboys going from 5+ to 6+ was rough.
I think we can all mostly agree about that. With the drop in FNP and losing the ability to have 'ard armor it really neutered any ability to run resilient boyz. I feel it is what created the necessity to run horde orks, other than all of our other stuff being insanely overpriced.
I would love to see and boys come back, personally.
If boys do go up in price, kommandos as line infantry - esp with Snikrot and 6" movement speed across the board - and the blood axe clan trait - that is a bargain and I could conceivably see the same scenario in 40k as in killteam.
Blood axes kommandos would in contrast to boys be superbly durable and move at a comfortable clip, while being versatile in transports, showing up unannounced in back field on turn 2 in any comfortable quantity, or even being durable and robust foot troops.
I'd be tempted to go that route instead of boys and just get minimum backfield grots.
TedNugent wrote: I'm really looking forward to the warbiker rules, but what is really intriguing is going to be the cost. You guys poo pooing their inclusion in the box are forgetting that they were not listed as one of the nonviable units in the French video, and you must be forgetting just how good they were in 7th.
Same, though to be fair, I think a lot of people are looking at bikes in general this edition and are cautious of getting too excited for them. Are there any good bike units other than eldar stuff?
But if you give the dakkaguns another shot each and drop them a few points I think they could have some real potential. Especially considering clan traits and possibly some stratagems..
Scout Bikes, Custode bikes, shining spears, Drukhari bikes are pretty good as well.
I will say that I actually think the scout bikes are unsung heroes of the SM codex, they're pretty similar to ork bikes but with way better BS and have a niche I've found. The custodes jetbikes are barely bikes IMO, since their price is vastly different than almost all other bike units..
I think all bike units are looking pale in comparison to shining spears though. They're 33 points each whereas an Ork warbike is 27 so hopefully something will be done to bridge that gap (and it's not unlikely that SS are getting a price hike)
I hope we get a few more shots with dakkaguns, maybe a bonus to strength/extra attack on the charge & maybe a 3 point decrease per bike
lolman1c wrote: Having 6 bikes in the kit would be a pretty nice small force to add to my collection. I honestly hope they get a huge price decrease (25% would be nice but might be just a dream). And perhaps get an automatic 6" advance.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: To be fair, eldar wind rinders suck big time. When our local eldar players brings his all jetbike army. it usually ends up tabled by turn 3, similar to ork bikes.
IMO orks warbikers will succeed or fail depending on their point costs and whether exhaust cloud makes a comeback to protect them.
I've seen a few eldar armies bring unique builds and get tabled. But normally it's in an elite tournament environment where every single unit needs to be efficient or you're already behind. In casual games they're not amazing but they're not auto lose. (This might just be from the games I've seen though). However, Ork bikers just get smashed even in casual games.... but again, this is in the games I've seen and everyone might have different experiences.
The list-building in our group is pretty casual. However, those bikes have nothing but T4/4+ to protect themselves, any plasma gun more powerful than a bolter pointed their way causes a massive loss of points for the eldar player. They are very similar to ork bikes in almost every regard, except they are actually supported by their codex through psychic powers, re-roll auras, stratagems and traits.
Shotgun 12" Assault 2 S3 AP0 D1 If target is within half range S+1
Stikksquig 6" Grenade d6 S3 AP0 D1
Saw blades Melee S+1 AP-1 D1
Abilities: Ere we go, Dakkadakkadakka, speed mob (we don't have any info on this right?)
Grot gunner: Add 1 to heavy squig launcher attack rolls (I'm guessing that means hit rolls)
Riding shotgun: When this model shoots, it can throw grenades and fire with its pistols in addition to any other weapons
Squig mine: Once per battle, at any point during this models move, place squig mine within 1" of this model and more than 3" from enemy models. Squig mine is represented by a squig mine model but does not count as a model for rules purposes. From the start of the next phase the squig mine is detonated whenany unit (friend or foe) moves within 3" of it. Resolve detonation after the unit that detonated it finishes its move. Roll a d6 on 2-3 one mortal wound on the unit that detonated it. on 4-5 it inflicts d3 mortal wounds on the unit that detonated it, on a 6 it inflicts 3 mortal wounds on the unit that detonated it. Remove squig mine from the battlefiel after it is detonated.
Explodes:
When wounds reduced to 0 roll a d6. On a 6, it explodes and units within 3" suffer d3 mortal wounds
I've tried to write everything verbatim but there might be some spelling mistakes. However let's be nice to the guy and click on the link so I've not "stolen" any views considering he's doing our community a solid here. This is simply for people who can't watch it right now/ dislike looking at videos
Seems like it's going to be annoying trying to optimise which squig is best against which target. 'Blue squig' seems like a strange name... would have thought 'gas squig' or 'poison squig' would be more appropriate.
Shotgun is identical to the standard imperial one, right? Wonder if it is wielded by an ork, in which case it is a straight downgrade from a shoota, or a grot, in which case maybe we can look forward to the different styles of grot blasta getting their own statlines? Always seemed odd to me that they have such different weapons on the models but all use the same rules.
EDIT: it's also really slow. 10" is Leman Russ speed.
EDIT 2: squig mine rules seem over-complicated. Rolling to decide what dice to roll? I know that's GW's whole game design style, but completely unnecessary.
Kirasu wrote: Looks pretty terrible.. GW seems to not have learned how to value ork shooting, still.
Same # of shots as BS3+ weapons but with BS5+ for a similar cost. Assault 2D6 is 1 wound (before saves) vs a vehicle at 0AP and 1D.
Boom Squig should have just auto hit as on average you're getting 1 whole hit.
It does seem to have +1 to hit with its main gun, but yeah, looks quite feeble. Can't say if GW have priced it right without seeing its points value, but not optimistic. Model looks good, but at the price them seem to want to charge I don't think I'm going to be rushing out to get one.
Kirasu wrote: Looks pretty terrible.. GW seems to not have learned how to value ork shooting, still.
Same # of shots as BS3+ weapons but with BS5+ for a similar cost. Assault 2D6 is 1 wound (before saves) vs a vehicle at 0AP and 1D.
Boom Squig should have just auto hit as on average you're getting 1 whole hit.
Yeah, I'm a little disappointed it isn't a grot gunner or straight up 10 shots or something. 2D6 is far too random for orks BS5. The rest of it look fine though.
I have no doubt the "exclusive" for Speed Freeks just means exclusive for now. They said exclusive for all the characters released in boxsets, like the Blood Angels Terminator Captain (now released seperately), the plastic Warboss (now released in its third, fourth version?), Krom Dragongaze (available by itself), the Broodlord (again, it its third or so release), the Tau Ethereal (available in at least one set since, I think two), the Raven Guard Captain (turned up in a set since), and the Watch Captain (in the Death Watch Start Collecting). I don't think Eldrad has been released seperately yet, but is sure to be. The Cryptek, Armigers, and summer releases are simply too recent to be rereleased yet. I have no doubt that these buggies will come out in releases in the future.
Couple of things I dislike about it from these leaks though.
The random amount of shots are a bit disappointing but the fact that the heavy squig launcher and the normal squig launcher have the same profile but different amount of shots would be really practical if it wasn't for the fact that only the heavy squig launcher gets +1 to hit. Meaning you have to do separate dice:
The saw blades are a bit underwhelming considering WS4+ IMO
The shotgun being S3/4 seems like one point of strength too low
The speed is on the low side but it doesn't look quick so I don't mind that. What do we reckon points wise? 75-90 range?
Hmmm look s a bit underwhelming.
With BS5 you get an average potential max of
6-7 hits using blues
A whopping 1 with biteys (maybe 2 with grot gunner +1)
and 3-4 hits with booms
?
Assuming the leaks stay as is it's a lovely little gun platform designed for a squadron.
I think being good is really going to come down to at what cost? It has some real potential, the squig mine can work as a pretty decent deterrent against more elite type armies.
But how much is it going to cost in points and in real money? It does look fun though.
I'm sure this is going to be sanely priced based on the fact that it kills about 1 MEQ, 2 GEQ or 1 wound against a vehicle in the shooting phase. Surely Games Workshop won't massively overprice it based on its theoretical maximum damage output and big, awesome sounding numbers mitigated by extremely low ballistic skill.
Seems kinda fun though. Just doesn't seem to be a huge amount of a niche for it given that you want to be fighting high toughness (but not T7 standard vehicles it sucks against those) low-save infantry. So I guess it's for fighting...grotesques?
Assuming the leaks stay as is it's a lovely little gun platform designed for a squadron.
I think being good is really going to come down to at what cost? It has some real potential, the squig mine can work as a pretty decent deterrent against more elite type armies.
But how much is it going to cost in points and in real money? It does look fun though.
The best thing about the squig mine is it doesn't look like it can be trivially shot off the board (like spore mines in past, dunno about at present).
Surely Games Workshop won't massively overprice it based on its theoretical maximum damage output and big, awesome sounding numbers mitigated by extremely low ballistic skill.
Do you really get to pick what squigs to fire from your launchers?
or in true Ork tradition will it be random for each shot (as an old skool ork gamer I don't actually mind random, but that is going to impact on how useful this is going to be and how you'll want to use it
95£ would be proper crazy for old bikes amd two buggies, yikes. Not enough to not get it at all, but maybe try and get the bikes and game stuff for cheap and the blue buggy and trike or squigtruck instead of the box *and* the other vehicles besides the Silberpfeil.
I don't think we can extrapolate too much 40k info from this but at least we now know that the tumbler thing on the shokkjump dragsta is called an "axle saw" and it's main weapon is a "Kustom shokk rifle".
The megtrakk skrapjets front intake is a "Turbine screw drill"
The exhausts on the kustom boosta blasta function as weapons in this game at the very least and its main gun is a "Rivet Kannon"
Jidmah wrote: Hah, whoever spotted the burna bits on the exhausts of the red buggy was actually right! Those things are a weapon, called "burna exhausts"
One of the few things I've got right about this release
The board is apparently 44" by 32" judging from the given dimensions of the deployment zone and the diagram in the custom scenario. I do hope it is folding cardboard of the same make as kill team boards.
The rules speak of placing 4 Speed Freek boards in that rukk, so I'm guessing the game comes with 22x16" tiles. The kill team boards are 22x30", so I guess you could use two tiles as a kill team board if you don't mind the extra 2 inches.
The stats don't surprise me. I'm guessing between 75-90 points, and they are meant to be taken in 3's. Leadership will be a concern, as with Kans.
- This is probably the slowest one. The race cars must be faster.
- I'm sure it will get a stratagem, probably every buggy will, requiring a full squadron.
- Dropping 3 of those mines in front of an advancing enemy will cause some consternation.
Based on those stats I'd be reluctant to pay even 70-75 points for the squig buggy. It kind of reminds me of the wazbom blasta jet; a bunch of individually weird and wacky little rules that combined together do.... not that much. The weapons have very weird generalist stats for all of them, with profiles that are only ok against very rare types of units. Grotesques, Ogryns, maybe a few types of tyranid gribblies. The squig mines are another type of cute little nuisance that I wouldn't really count on doing much, especially since orks are an assault army so leaving behind mines is not really useful when you are running towards the enemy.
While the speed freeks rules release seems to be pretty game-specific, I hope the shokkjump dragsta keeps that teleporting positional type ability in 40k. If priced appropriately, I could see that ind of power being very useful depending on when it activates. Might be able to function as a jump-shoot-jump kind of ability. Or, if it doesn't end up with the "deploy outside of 9 inches" rule, it might be good for popping up behind screens to snipe characters or shoot backfield tanks before charging them with its mini-deff rolla and shutting down their shooting for a turn while it falls back. the size might make this kind of tactic difficult though.
I just really hope the dragsta is good because it's definitely my favorite of the buggies (partially because I play badmoons, but also because it just looks really crazy and cool).
Hmm, yea interesting, but I'm not really wowed by those stats. It better be cheap point wise because I can't really see it making a lot of damage. With 9 wounds though, a squadron of them might be annoying to get rid of, but it sure comes down to the price in the end.
Kirasu wrote: Looks pretty terrible.. GW seems to not have learned how to value ork shooting, still.
Same # of shots as BS3+ weapons but with BS5+ for a similar cost. Assault 2D6 is 1 wound (before saves) vs a vehicle at 0AP and 1D.
Boom Squig should have just auto hit as on average you're getting 1 whole hit.
Umm you look at anti infantry weapon and complain it\s only 1 wound vs vehicle?
"My space marine heavy bolter causes only 0.6666 wounds before saves vs knights! It sucks!"
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jhnbrg wrote: Ld 6 and no mob rule? I wonder how morale will work in the codex.
Vehicles rarely have any worry about morale anyway. 1 dies, you lose another on 6. That's if you even have more than 1 in squadron which looks like it might not be case. Depending on price you might not WANT more than 3 in the army so can run them on solo models anyway.
And mob rule wouldn't do much help anyway. 3 models < LD6
Kirasu wrote: Looks pretty terrible.. GW seems to not have learned how to value ork shooting, still.
Same # of shots as BS3+ weapons but with BS5+ for a similar cost. Assault 2D6 is 1 wound (before saves) vs a vehicle at 0AP and 1D.
Boom Squig should have just auto hit as on average you're getting 1 whole hit.
Umm you look at anti infantry weapon and complain it\s only 1 wound vs vehicle?
"My space marine heavy bolter causes only 0.6666 wounds before saves vs knights! It sucks!"
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jhnbrg wrote: Ld 6 and no mob rule? I wonder how morale will work in the codex.
Vehicles rarely have any worry about morale anyway. 1 dies, you lose another on 6. That's if you even have more than 1 in squadron which looks like it might not be case. Depending on price you might not WANT more than 3 in the army so can run them on solo models anyway.
And mob rule wouldn't do much help anyway. 3 models < LD6
Do you even play orks?
Every vehicle scuadron has mob rule, if mob rule is out and ld is still 6 dont you think that is odd?
- This is probably the slowest one. The race cars must be faster.
What I like to call the "Dark Eldar Method" of showing one thing to be fast by making other things in the same book slower, and ignoring how fast other things in other codexes go.
So the "slow buggy" is Leman Russ speed while the "fast buggy" will be...I dunno, probably 14".
- This is probably the slowest one. The race cars must be faster.
What I like to call the "Dark Eldar Method" of showing one thing to be fast by making other things in the same book slower, and ignoring how fast other things in other codexes go.
So the "slow buggy" is Leman Russ speed while the "fast buggy" will be...I dunno, probably 14".
There's also the possibility of rules that make it so Advancing "always" grants a certain distance or it can advance+fire with no penalties, etc.
I'd imagine the kustom boosta blasta is the fastest (not factoring the weird jumps the shokkjump dragsta most likely will have access to).
I doubt the Kustom boosta blasta is faster than a warbike meaning 14" as of right now. Hopefully they're bumped up to 16" though
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JimOnMars wrote: Boom squig + grot gunner gives 2 st6 hits at ap-1, marginally worse than a drukari raider with DC, and is not a transport, but it is tougher.
The crew squig launcher mostly misses, not worth much there.
It should be significantly less than 80 points of a raider with DC...55 or so would be about right. 60 would be OK.
If it's 60 points we should count our lucky stars IMO. I doubt it'll be priced that low, even though it might not be worth much more than that. It's quite durable at that price point though
or in true Ork tradition will it be random for each shot (as an old skool ork gamer I don't actually mind random, but that is going to impact on how useful this is going to be and how you'll want to use it
Maybe something like you can choose to shoot only once in which case you get to pick your squig, or you can choose to shoot twice but you fire random squigs and there's a chance to botch the whole thing?
I don't mind random as long as it is pointed appropriately. GW often seems to point random things as if the best result always happens, but maybe they'll do a better job this time?
Automatically Appended Next Post: As far as movement goes, one thing I like about 10" on the Squigbuggy is that it matches the movement of Squiggoths in case we want to do some more primitive conversions. Considering its weapons (if the playtester leak is accurate) I also don't think a 10" movement is a big disadvantage.
I do hope the other buggies are faster. I could easily see the Kustom Boosta Blasta, the Shokkjump Dragsta and maybe the Megatrakk Scrapjet having special rules when it comes to advancing that make them extra-fast.
PiñaColada wrote: I'd imagine the kustom boosta blasta is the fastest (not factoring the weird jumps the shokkjump dragsta most likely will have access to).
I doubt the Kustom boosta blasta is faster than a warbike meaning 14" as of right now. Hopefully they're bumped up to 16" though
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JimOnMars wrote: Boom squig + grot gunner gives 2 st6 hits at ap-1, marginally worse than a drukari raider with DC, and is not a transport, but it is tougher.
The crew squig launcher mostly misses, not worth much there.
It should be significantly less than 80 points of a raider with DC...55 or so would be about right. 60 would be OK.
If it's 60 points we should count our lucky stars IMO. I doubt it'll be priced that low, even though it might not be worth much more than that. It's quite durable at that price point though
Or they could give the ork bikes the same Turbo-Boost advance of every other bike unit in the game, instead of having them move 14" then pick up their bikes and run with them D6" for an advance.
ManTube wrote: Based on those stats I'd be reluctant to pay even 70-75 points for the squig buggy. It kind of reminds me of the wazbom blasta jet; a bunch of individually weird and wacky little rules that combined together do.... not that much. The weapons have very weird generalist stats for all of them, with profiles that are only ok against very rare types of units. Grotesques, Ogryns, maybe a few types of tyranid gribblies. The squig mines are another type of cute little nuisance that I wouldn't really count on doing much, especially since orks are an assault army so leaving behind mines is not really useful when you are running towards the enemy.
While the speed freeks rules release seems to be pretty game-specific, I hope the shokkjump dragsta keeps that teleporting positional type ability in 40k. If priced appropriately, I could see that ind of power being very useful depending on when it activates. Might be able to function as a jump-shoot-jump kind of ability. Or, if it doesn't end up with the "deploy outside of 9 inches" rule, it might be good for popping up behind screens to snipe characters or shoot backfield tanks before charging them with its mini-deff rolla and shutting down their shooting for a turn while it falls back. the size might make this kind of tactic difficult though.
I just really hope the dragsta is good because it's definitely my favorite of the buggies (partially because I play badmoons, but also because it just looks really crazy and cool).
The plan is to hope they got 1 model right out of 6. Then the other 5 buggies will "count as" that model.
It sounds pretty neat, but yeah the damage output mathematically doesn't come out to much and it sounds like a lot of annoying dice rolls, including multiple sets of shot, hit and damage rolls for each wacky gun. Different ranges and profiles depending on the range, too. It's like 5 units worth of weapon profiles and rolls for what amounts to less than a dead MEQ per turn.
TedNugent wrote: It sounds pretty neat, but yeah the damage output mathematically doesn't come out to much and it sounds like a lot of annoying dice rolls, including multiple sets of shot, hit and damage rolls for each wacky gun. Different ranges and profiles depending on the range, too. It's like 5 units worth of weapon profiles and rolls for what amounts to less than a dead MEQ per turn.
Weird.
Assuming you get that perfect "get to 6" without advancing, unload and charge" you get...lets see...
1.11 dead meqs from shooting (using the D3 shot profile) and .6666 from melee.
So roughly 2 dead meqs. That is a lot of die rolling for that lol.
nflagey wrote: Maybe that buggy is more aimed at other shirtless units ...
It's better at killing MEQ than GEQ (eyyy what else is new). 1.85 dead GEQ from the launchers plus .684 from the rando extra shooting crap, then about 1 kill from melee.
12 points of GEQ per turn assuming perfect conditions. Not exactly inspiring.
gungo wrote: The squig mine might be decent if the squig mine can move like a tankbusta squig...
That’s about the only good thing I can say about this buggy and I hope this is the cheapest buggy points wise.
I seriously doubt the squig mine moves at all once its placed. The rules for it would seem odd then I think..
I do sort of wonder if the buggy only has one shotgun on it or several. I'm guessing it could just be one but if it's one for every ork crewmember it's a bit better, although hardly great
They wouldnt tell me gak. Because they dont want to get in trouble. But when I said I bet GW raised the price of boys to 7ppm.. well lets just say they are the worst fething liars and basically admitted it.
Not impressed with that statline, but hey if the points are right then it can work. Point are everything in a point based balancing system so we shall see.
7 point boys are fine if they are increasing points for mooks across the board. If it's just a nerf to Ork boys to try and force other playstyles without making other playstyles better I'll likely just sell all my orks.
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Sal4m4nd3r wrote: They wouldnt tell me gak. Because they dont want to get in trouble. But when I said I bet GW raised the price of boys to 7ppm.. well lets just say they are the worst fething liars and basically admitted it.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I know people who have hands on the codex. Boys are 7ppm. I am 100% certain.
Is there any compensation for the points increase?
probably being able to use strategems and get clan rules is why they went up in price.
Paying more points because you get access to the same rules (stratagems and clan rules) when no one else did (and often went down in points) makes me want to fling a table and listen to emo music on youtube as a write sad poetry.
probably being able to use strategems and get clan rules is why they went up in price.
lets be sure this conversation doesn't go of the rails from this statement. its been talked half to death on either side if a 7ppm is worth the clan traits or other things.
as far as the squig buggy
it would make sense that it only goes 10inches. it is snakebites, the least tech savy of the clans. we are lucky the could get the thing moving without cutting out the floor and using their feet "flinstones style"(note to self, convert a squigbuggy to do that). its hvy amount of wounds is its survivability and its impressive range for its tshirt cannons makes it more of a gun platform. while it is focused around killing infantry its mines can cordon off a part of the board for imperial knights who might not want to get any unnecessary mortal wounds.
Makes kommandos, nobs and grots seem a lot more enticing.
Boys aren't a good fit at 7 points. Trying to understand where they got that idea in their head.
The only thing would be teleportation strategems combined with a warboss and evil Suns making turn 2 charges coming in from reserves a practical guarantee.
TedNugent wrote: Makes kommandos, nobs and grots seem a lot more enticing.
Boys aren't a good fit at 7 points. Trying to understand where they got that idea in their head.
The only thing would be teleportation strategems combined with a warboss and evil Suns making turn 2 charges coming in from reserves a practical guarantee.
At least 7 point boys would make blood axe kommandos a lot more appealing. For two points you would essentially be buying a 4+ armor save against shooting which is nice. (Gotta find something positive from this.)
Kommandos with a 4+ through the blood axe clan trait, free burnas and 6" movement range with the option to show up anywhere 9" away on turn 2 are no brainers compared to 7 point boys. Unless the trukks went down in price, I'm just getting some grots.
7 point boys didn't make any sense in 7th, they didn't perform, I don't see this being different.
Kind of irritates me because I wanted to go evil Suns green tide with kombi skorchas and mob up, painboys and warboss.
But this is the no brainer at this point if they stay at 9 ppm.
the change to 32s is the change I am MOST pissed about. I have 250 ork boys...180-200 of which are fully painted. Now I have to spend more on bases then actual models on release..AND I just made 4-5 30 slot 25mm movement trays to pack all 30 boyz within 9" for max kff efficiency.
Personally, I want them to remove two things from Orks:
1) +1a for squads at 20+ models
2) KFF
You can’t buff smaller squads like Trukk Boyz as long as 1 is a factor, since it’ll just make the larger squads stronger; or make no thematic sense.
As far as 2 goes, every ork unit is priced and played as though it always has a KFF near it; which is a points tax, and unrealistic. Plus, it punishes the faster outrider, type units.
fe40k wrote: Personally, I want them to remove two things from Orks:
1) +1a for squads at 20+ models 2) KFF
You can’t buff smaller squads like Trukk Boyz as long as 1 is a factor, since it’ll just make the larger squads stronger; or make no thematic sense.
As far as 2 goes, every ork unit is priced and played as though it always has a KFF near it; which is a points tax, and unrealistic. Plus, it punishes the faster outrider, type units.
I re-read the armageddon codex for 3rd edition. Why it was possible to build trukk lists back then, but not anymore since many, many editions?
Not rebasing so don't care about that, new models get what they come with, but boyz are 25mm here, a tournament has trouble with that, well I don't play in them anyway so meh.
The rules so far for the buggies have me wondering what role they have, they seem too expensive for a flanking irritant, and no robust enough for a centre - find myself wondering why I would bother over more boyz, when half decent anti tank will just delete them anyway.
They do look very nice it has to be said though.
if the speed freekz is £90 that helps me significantly, will be getting the codex and cards and likely leaving it at that to be honest, at least in the short term, especially with boyz going up a bit (and I assume kommando & stormboyz will also go up by whatever logic cause the boyz to go up) I'm not going to be needing more models any time soon to run 2k - 3k.
Just hoping the Stompa is not longer utter garbage as I could do with something big, or possibly a pair of somethings big
Yeah, GW put themselves in a weird (and imo, bad) spot with the new vehicle releases - Ork vehicles should have always been largely the equivalent of Boyz; individually they go down easy, but there’s just so many of them.
IMO, Orks should be able to friend far more vehicles than any other faction, at the cost of durability/individual strength.
The new models are too big and intricate to support this; so they have to make them tanks and shooty, which doesn’t necessarily work given Orks BS5+ and the lethality of 8ths anti-vehicle.
fe40k wrote: Personally, I want them to remove two things from Orks:
1) +1a for squads at 20+ models
2) KFF
You can’t buff smaller squads like Trukk Boyz as long as 1 is a factor, since it’ll just make the larger squads stronger; or make no thematic sense.
As far as 2 goes, every ork unit is priced and played as though it always has a KFF near it; which is a points tax, and unrealistic. Plus, it punishes the faster outrider, type units.
I love the kff. It's great for Evil sunz army as a way of keeping everyone together. You get a invuln save for all vechiles at the price of keeping the in sync with each other like x wing.
I'd say a kommando / tankbusta kit seems very unlikely to me. GW rarely seem to convert kits to plastic without adding an alternative build option. It would surely make more business sense to do something like kommandos / skarboyz or something where a new unit is introduced and they can sell the kit to people who already have enough kommandos?
Kommandos are literally sneaky boyz. Giving them a new toy would basically mean Boyz should have it too, other than the "deepstrike" and cover rules theyre completely the same as boyz. Tankbustas whole gimick is theyre rokkit spammers. Other than giving them BIGGER rokkits, which would be weird on foot unless it was a boss using it, what could they add?
All i can think of for Tankbustas that a plastic kit would be great for is make the fething Tankhamma actually worth it and let us field a unit of it lol...
Perfect Organism wrote: I'd say a kommando / tankbusta kit seems very unlikely to me. GW rarely seem to convert kits to plastic without adding an alternative build option. It would surely make more business sense to do something like kommandos / skarboyz or something where a new unit is introduced and they can sell the kit to people who already have enough kommandos?
They may just do Kommandos and Kommandos with notably different weapons, and then likewise for Tankbusters.
This is what they do with some units, like the GSC Neophytes. It only had one build, but multiple weapons options within that build.
Kommandos are literally sneaky boyz. Giving them a new toy would basically mean Boyz should have it too, other than the "deepstrike" and cover rules theyre completely the same as boyz.
Tankbustas whole gimick is theyre rokkit spammers. Other than giving them BIGGER rokkits, which would be weird on foot unless it was a boss using it, what could they add?
All i can think of for Tankbustas that a plastic kit would be great for is make the fething Tankhamma actually worth it and let us field a unit of it lol...
Rokkits and tankhammers for Tankbusters, and choppas and sluggas or shootas for Kommandos? Add in a few special weapons options (big shootas, squigs etc.) and the sprues soon fill up if they make sure there are enough of each basic weapons loadout to fill the squad.
So... These Squigbuggy stats are quite average. In order to be payable it needs to cost less than 70pts since it's basically weaker than a Rhino with double Stormbolter and has no transport capacity.
60-65pts would be spot on I think. So it will probably be 90...
Kanluwen wrote: Yeah, I get it. They're expensive to run in large numbers. They're still cheaper than Scions at $35 for the same number of models per box.
Yeah I don't think you do get it.
Horde armies that have their units cost the same as non-Horde armies suffer as a result. Orks suffer from this especially.
nflagey wrote: Maybe that buggy is more aimed at other shirtless units ...
It's better at killing MEQ than GEQ (eyyy what else is new). 1.85 dead GEQ from the launchers plus .684 from the rando extra shooting crap, then about 1 kill from melee.
12 points of GEQ per turn assuming perfect conditions. Not exactly inspiring.
yeah not exactly great... but with the range you could pull off some interesting deployment screens... like put a squadron of em next to... idk mega kannonz and screen em with squigs, to be somewhat safe from deepstriking melee units. then go off and kill 2 MEQs per turn
seriously though... i was used to pay 35 points for a outflanking skorcha buggy... which seems now way more viable then ever
so yeah unless its under the 50 point mark i see no point (pun?) in taking it
Marklarr wrote: Why would anyone need the squig buggy to go faster? It has a 36” range for almost all gunz. Badmoons for the win with this buggy
Because it pays for 2 6" range small arms and 4 WS4+ S6 AP-1 melee attacks.
You're nuts if you think this thing is gonna be fairly priced to sit around in the backfield lobbing shots at 36" range. GW is going to price this sucker like you're driving up 6" away, unloading and charging every turn.
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Nym wrote: So... These Squigbuggy stats are quite average. In order to be payable it needs to cost less than 70pts since it's basically weaker than a Rhino with double Stormbolter and has no transport capacity.
60-65pts would be spot on I think. So it will probably be 90...
Shh. no. look at all those guns! Look at all the names those guns have! Look at all the statlines! There's no possible way this thing could have less damage output than a double...storm bolter...oh.
Shh. no. look at all those guns! Look at all the names those guns have! Look at all the statlines! There's no possible way this thing could have less damage output than a double...storm bolter...oh.
Oh right, ork shooting suuuuuuuuuuuuucks.
grenades and shootss are 0pt upgrades, was talking to a Friend and the shotgun in other armies costs nothing. that dakka is free.
I think is clear to everybody that a 5+ shooting army just can't work unless you give them so many dice and shoots (Or numbers by being dirty cheap) that it becomes a chore to collect the army and play it.
But GW loves their traditions and their statlines so it isn't gonna change in the near future. A shame.
Galas wrote: I think is clear to everybody that a 5+ shooting army just can't work unless you give them so many dice and shoots (Or numbers by being dirty cheap) that it becomes a chore to collect the army and play it.
But GW loves their traditions and their statlines so it isn't gonna change in the near future. A shame.
GW does have this one, final, chance. We will know in 2 weeks (or hopefully sooner.)
It's funny that Marines went down in price while Ork boys went up.
I'm surprised they're reporting nobs aren't viable. With the clan traits you could have 10 T4 5+ wounds before you hit the first nob for a mere 40 points.
Then each nob would be walking around with 3+ saves and 2 wounds per model.
That's 30 wounds total. I'm thinking at 7ppm boys don't compare favorably to that. Even with the cover save from the blood axe clan, each boy is only durable as an ammo runt.
Both units would cost 210 points for the same number of wounds.
You could also load the unit up with as many klaws, big Choppas and kombi skorchas as you liked, and fit the whole unit inside a battle wagon for the hell of it, just because you can. Something you can't do with a 30 man boys mob.
Model bleed would also fall on the ammo runts instead of boys, preserving the hitting power of the unit. And you could even use a unit of grots as a shield.
Kirasu wrote: Looks pretty terrible.. GW seems to not have learned how to value ork shooting, still.
Same # of shots as BS3+ weapons but with BS5+ for a similar cost. Assault 2D6 is 1 wound (before saves) vs a vehicle at 0AP and 1D.
Boom Squig should have just auto hit as on average you're getting 1 whole hit.
Umm you look at anti infantry weapon and complain it\s only 1 wound vs vehicle?
"My space marine heavy bolter causes only 0.6666 wounds before saves vs knights! It sucks!"
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jhnbrg wrote: Ld 6 and no mob rule? I wonder how morale will work in the codex.
Vehicles rarely have any worry about morale anyway. 1 dies, you lose another on 6. That's if you even have more than 1 in squadron which looks like it might not be case. Depending on price you might not WANT more than 3 in the army so can run them on solo models anyway.
And mob rule wouldn't do much help anyway. 3 models < LD6
Do you even play orks?
Every vehicle scuadron has mob rule, if mob rule is out and ld is still 6 dont you think that is odd?
Yes i play but since vehicles are effectively immune to morale anyway don't worry about irrelevanties. Think i have lost 1 killa kan to morale ever. Either they walk in squadrons of 1(be ld0 for all i care), they get totally splattered or pass the ld when they lose that 1 anyway. Rolling 6 is unlikely.
How funny is it that the squig mine as leaked seems to work verse super sonic fliers lol. It wouldn't be hard to mine the board in front of their flight path and do a crap load of mortal wounds.
I actually think the squig mine is better then people would guess. It has fun application for board control using the buggies to block movement in one areas after they have mined off another. I mean, the fact that a unit just has to have moved near it and not end it's move within 3" makes it pretty easy to use. As others have already said, this thing is going to be made or broken on cost.
Red Corsair wrote: How funny is it that the squig mine as leaked seems to work verse super sonic fliers lol. It wouldn't be hard to mine the board in front of their flight path and do a crap load of mortal wounds.
I actually think the squig mine is better then people would guess. It has fun application for board control using the buggies to block movement in one areas after they have mined off another. I mean, the fact that a unit just has to have moved near it and not end it's move within 3" makes it pretty easy to use. As others have already said, this thing is going to be made or broken on cost.
I think it'd be fun if you could shoot mine squigs from the launchers, like you can spore mines from biovores. The Squig mine looks to be exactly like spore mines at this moment if the leak is true.
TedNugent wrote: Makes kommandos, nobs and grots seem a lot more enticing.
Boys aren't a good fit at 7 points. Trying to understand where they got that idea in their head.
The only thing would be teleportation strategems combined with a warboss and evil Suns making turn 2 charges coming in from reserves a practical guarantee.
Assuming other stuff doesn't go up in price. If kommandos and stormboyz don't go up as well internal balance is sooooo off that it's not even funny. No reason to not load up on those before boyz. Then again that's so bad internal balance it sounds just like GW. Let's sell more expensive stormboyz(lucky I just converted some myself from boyz) and kommandos(time to convert those too) rather than boyz.
And the teleport strategem sounds like one unit so you need to pay that CP twice to get both warboss and boyz there.
(besides warboss not needed. You can't advance once teleport so no need for warboss)
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Sal4m4nd3r wrote: the change to 32s is the change I am MOST pissed about. I have 250 ork boys...180-200 of which are fully painted. Now I have to spend more on bases then actual models on release..AND I just made 4-5 30 slot 25mm movement trays to pack all 30 boyz within 9" for max kff efficiency.
So don't rebase. GW doesn't require it so why should you go out of your way for extra effort and money? Somebody complains just ignore that TFG.
Shh. no. look at all those guns! Look at all the names those guns have! Look at all the statlines! There's no possible way this thing could have less damage output than a double...storm bolter...oh.
Oh right, ork shooting suuuuuuuuuuuuucks.
grenades and shootss are 0pt upgrades, was talking to a Friend and the shotgun in other armies costs nothing. that dakka is free.
You realize that just because weapon has cost "0" doesn't mean it's actually free? Or do you seriously try to claim volcano cannon is really free?-) If you check the codex it has price "0" in it...
Yes i play but since vehicles are effectively immune to morale anyway don't worry about irrelevanties. Think i have lost 1 killa kan to morale ever. Either they walk in squadrons of 1(be ld0 for all i care), they get totally splattered or pass the ld when they lose that 1 anyway. Rolling 6 is unlikely.
Making mountain out of anthill
I think you are missing the point, this is the first leaked unit and unlike the index the new buggies seems to lack mob rule. It might mean nothing and it might mean a change in ork morale, I think it is worth pointing out.
You realize that just because weapon has cost "0" doesn't mean it's actually free? Or do you seriously try to claim volcano cannon is really free?-) If you check the codex it has price "0" in it...
so, does that mean the stick bomb cost is added to a boy, or the price of the shoota? in 7th the shoota costed 1pt, do you mean to say that boys incorporated the price of the shoota when they made it into 8th?
or maybe, just maybe the shoota is costed as exactly 0pts and has no influence on the boyz price (pre codex, for all we know GW could make it cost 1pt again, but as it is it is exactly 0pts).
a zero pt upgrade is simply a zero pt upgrade. and while many 0pt upgrades/wargear have their cost added to the model. there are plenty that seem to not have any influence on the models final price.
You realize that just because weapon has cost "0" doesn't mean it's actually free? Or do you seriously try to claim volcano cannon is really free?-) If you check the codex it has price "0" in it...
so, does that mean the stick bomb cost is added to a boy, or the price of the shoota? in 7th the shoota costed 1pt, do you mean to say that boys incorporated the price of the shoota when they made it into 8th?
or maybe, just maybe the shoota is costed as exactly 0pts and has no influence on the boyz price (pre codex, for all we know GW could make it cost 1pt again, but as it is it is exactly 0pts).
a zero pt upgrade is simply a zero pt upgrade. and while many 0pt upgrades/wargear have their cost added to the model. there are plenty that seem to not have any influence on the models final price.
Riiiiight. So you think if GW would make leman russ with volcano cannon that's leman russ chasis+0 pts?
You clearly don't understand how the price of weapons etc are worked out...Even GW isn't stupid enough to think volcano cannon and lasgun are worth same despite both costing 0 pts according to end of codex point costs.
Riiiiight. So you think if GW would make leman russ with volcano cannon that's leman russ chasis+0 pts?
You clearly don't understand how the price of weapons etc are worked out...Even GW isn't stupid enough to think volcano cannon and lasgun are worth same despite both costing 0 pts according to end of codex point costs.
so, answer me this oh one who knows all, does the lemon russ have access to the volcano cannon?
edit"ill admit, what i just asked doesnt make much sence. but what im trying to say is that i dont doubt that the shadowsword has the price of the volcano canon. but i also argue that such insignificant upgrades like the stick bomb and shoota are not added to the boy because their effects in the game are often so minuscule that they are worthless (or cant be costed without going into numbers belore 1 but not 0 {like 0.5 pts for a shoota}) and GW gives them to the boy for free. im not denying what you said about that example, but i am saying your wrong because your dealing with an absolute.
Red Corsair wrote: How funny is it that the squig mine as leaked seems to work verse super sonic fliers lol. It wouldn't be hard to mine the board in front of their flight path and do a crap load of mortal wounds.
I actually think the squig mine is better then people would guess. It has fun application for board control using the buggies to block movement in one areas after they have mined off another. I mean, the fact that a unit just has to have moved near it and not end it's move within 3" makes it pretty easy to use. As others have already said, this thing is going to be made or broken on cost.
Given that it is a 3" radius circle that you have to place 3" away, and flyers are allowed to pivot 90 degrees before they move, I think you might have a hard time finding a location to put it where the flyer can't just pivot and go a different way.
You realize that just because weapon has cost "0" doesn't mean it's actually free? Or do you seriously try to claim volcano cannon is really free?-) If you check the codex it has price "0" in it...
so, does that mean the stick bomb cost is added to a boy, or the price of the shoota? in 7th the shoota costed 1pt, do you mean to say that boys incorporated the price of the shoota when they made it into 8th?
or maybe, just maybe the shoota is costed as exactly 0pts and has no influence on the boyz price (pre codex, for all we know GW could make it cost 1pt again, but as it is it is exactly 0pts).
a zero pt upgrade is simply a zero pt upgrade. and while many 0pt upgrades/wargear have their cost added to the model. there are plenty that seem to not have any influence on the models final price.
Yes. The price of the Choppa/Slugga or Shoota is absolutely factored into the cost of an ork boy.
They're 0 point upgrades because they're considered to have roughly the same benefit to the boy. The cost of the shoota is giving up the attack from the choppa to get the range and extra shot. The cost of the choppa is giving up the shoota.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: the change to 32s is the change I am MOST pissed about. I have 250 ork boys...180-200 of which are fully painted. Now I have to spend more on bases then actual models on release..AND I just made 4-5 30 slot 25mm movement trays to pack all 30 boyz within 9" for max kff efficiency.
So don't rebase. GW doesn't require it so why should you go out of your way for extra effort and money? Somebody complains just ignore that TFG.
I will have to in order to play in tournaments, which is what I enjoy.
If everyone could pick ONE unit to be dope what would it be? Like really good, pointed exactly right. STRONG but not OP...like a ROCK SOLID choice... which unit is it??
For me.. Burna boyz! Nothing is more orky then driving in a rickety ready to explode vehicle with a ready to explode at any moment chem tank on your back, with the sole intention to set as much gak on fire as possible... and sometimes a few enemies to!
Hmm, the only thing I really got out of that is that the rivet kannon is indeed an anti-tank weapon and that at least in this game, those tusks on the front are actual weapons. Still, I didn't even expect an article today so that's more than I hoped for
Shh. no. look at all those guns! Look at all the names those guns have! Look at all the statlines! There's no possible way this thing could have less damage output than a double...storm bolter...oh.
Oh right, ork shooting suuuuuuuuuuuuucks.
grenades and shootss are 0pt upgrades, was talking to a Friend and the shotgun in other armies costs nothing. that dakka is free.
I suppose when you put your car in for a service and the service includes a "free" valet you think that is free too?
There's a big difference between "free" and "included in the price"
The free valet that comes with a car service is included in the price.
The crew guns on this unit, are included in the price.
Hmm, the only thing I really got out of that is that the rivet kannon is indeed an anti-tank weapon and that at least in this game, those tusks on the front are actual weapons. Still, I didn't even expect an article today so that's more than I hoped for
There is some possibly useful info in there. River cannon has 12in range does 2 damage 3 shots and sounds like it has decent armor penetration with a special rule that rerolls def die maybe reroll successful armor saves?
The scorchas have 6in range and 2+ to hit.
And a bunch of other rules that may not translate over
Hmm, the only thing I really got out of that is that the rivet kannon is indeed an anti-tank weapon and that at least in this game, those tusks on the front are actual weapons. Still, I didn't even expect an article today so that's more than I hoped for
There is some possibly useful info in there. River cannon has 12in range does 2 damage 3 shots and sounds like it has decent armor penetration with a special rule that rerolls def die maybe reroll successful armor saves?
The scorchas have 6in range and 2+ to hit.
And a bunch of other rules that may not translate over
I'm unsure if we can take any of those stats at face value. Yesterdays picture of the shokkjump dragsta datasheet has a rokkit launcha on it but in the speed freeks game it has 12" 2 shots D2 and can reroll 1 attack. Point is those stats are certainly pretty different from regular 40k and I'm not sure if we can even try and make educated guesses from the datasheets
I'd say the range will be different from Speed freaks to 40k. Makes sense that on the Track environment of Speedfreeks the ranges are all less than 24.
JimOnMars wrote: The rivet cannon sounds like ork melta. We can't know how the range converts until we get more leaks.
I'm personally hoping for a sort of Frag Cannon... together with the Skorcha and the front spikes hopefully being a servicable melee weapon it would be an excellent anti-MEQ/TEQ platform. If the Rivet Kannon is indeed anti-tank it needs to be at the very least a 2-shot weapon with Ork BS because there doesn't appear to be a Grot Gunner on the thing.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: I will have to in order to play in tournaments, which is what I enjoy.
Only in those tournaments which require it. It's unlikely to be a universal rule. And if the tournaments around you do use such a rule, it would be worth trying to discuss it with the TO before you go and actually re-base everything.
If everyone could pick ONE unit to be dope what would it be? Like really good, pointed exactly right. STRONG but not OP...like a ROCK SOLID choice... which unit is it??
I don't want any one unit to be solid. I want an army with a bunch of useful options.
I suppose when you put your car in for a service and the service includes a "free" valet you think that is free too?
There's a big difference between "free" and "included in the price"
The free valet that comes with a car service is included in the price.
The crew guns on this unit, are included in the price.
funny you should say that because i got my cigarette lighter fixed yesterday and it was free.
also, for a counter example, if the burna is 0pts then is its price calculated into the cost of the komandos?
my main argument is the effectiveness of the sticksquig and shotgun are soo minimal that they would be somewhere worth 0.5 pts and thus at most might cost in total maybe a single point. you guys seem to be blowing the incompetence of GW out of proportion.
yes, they do make mistakes, but they aren't that ignorant that they will add any significant cost to the squigbuggy for a normal grenade and a wpn worse then a shoota.
Maybe someone already pointed this out but I just noticed, it looks like the Kustom Boosta-blasta driver is a cybork. It appears he has exposed metal neck vertebrae. I hope they have a proper cybork entry in the codex this time.
Dont know if someone has pointed it out before, bu the kommando kit is currently unavailable, so its probably one of the new kits that havent been announced yet.
I cannot even find it in both Spanish and UK stores.
I think Orks need new Tankbustas more than anything.
Everything about them looks weird and out of proportion.
And not in an Orky way, they just look crap.
Marklarr wrote: Why would anyone need the squig buggy to go faster? It has a 36” range for almost all gunz. Badmoons for the win with this buggy
Because it pays for 2 6" range small arms and 4 WS4+ S6 AP-1 melee attacks.
You're nuts if you think this thing is gonna be fairly priced to sit around in the backfield lobbing shots at 36" range. GW is going to price this sucker like you're driving up 6" away, unloading and charging every turn.
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Nym wrote: So... These Squigbuggy stats are quite average. In order to be payable it needs to cost less than 70pts since it's basically weaker than a Rhino with double Stormbolter and has no transport capacity.
60-65pts would be spot on I think. So it will probably be 90...
Shh. no. look at all those guns! Look at all the names those guns have! Look at all the statlines! There's no possible way this thing could have less damage output than a double...storm bolter...oh.
Oh right, ork shooting suuuuuuuuuuuuucks.
Well the only thing I see worthwhile being within 6” of anything is the one off Squig mine, but then I see the vehicle getting tied up in Cc and I’m not really impressed with the CC stats personally, as for the other short range weapons.....meh to them.
It also pays for all of its 36” range weapons, which won’t work in combat. Let’s just hope it has the ability to fall back and shoot! That will make this it much better in my eyes as it’ll give the buggy the option to be aggressive with pushing forward with it.
Have you guys seen this? Leaked Kustom Boosta-blasta rumours
Assuming the picture is to be trusted:
The rivet kannon seems sweet
FOUR burna exhausts? 4D3 auto hits is a big deal imo Grot blasta being S4?
Potential mortal wounds on the charge is always nice
Speed Mob ability is still unknown
Only 12" move is a bit less than I hoped for. I thought it'd be 14/16 but 12 is still pretty fast
Have you guys seen this? Leaked Kustom Boosta-blasta rumours
Assuming the picture is to be trusted:
The rivet kannon seems sweet
FOUR burna exhausts? 4D3 auto hits is a big deal imo Grot blasta being S4?
Potential mortal wounds on the charge is always nice
Speed Mob ability is still unknown
I have a feeling that the S4 is a typo, but that'd be an interesting buff to grots, making their shooting more potent when they actually ever get to fire them. I'm really glad the Rivet Kannon actually has a flat 6 shots, it give me hope that they'll be fixing some of the guns like the Deffstorm Mega-Blasta to have a more consistent amount of shooting. When your BS is only 5+, you really need the higher end of the dice rolls to ever make use of weapons.
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nflagey wrote: and 5 power points ... how does that convert, roughly, to regular points?
If I remember correctly, PL is roughly the number times 20. So it's 100, but it's not always a direct translation due to upgrades and all.
wacherax wrote: Dont know if someone has pointed it out before, bu the kommando kit is currently unavailable, so its probably one of the new kits that havent been announced yet.
I cannot even find it in both Spanish and UK stores.
100ish - doesn't seem that bad for something with the equivalent of twin autocannons and two flamers, that does mortal wounds on a 4+.
Suprised the flames aren't pistol though, but could easily imagine a strat.
wacherax wrote: Dont know if someone has pointed it out before, bu the kommando kit is currently unavailable, so its probably one of the new kits that havent been announced yet.
I cannot even find it in both Spanish and UK stores.
2 shot plasma that hits on a 3+ - always overcharged but does D6dmg + extra mortal on 6 to wound.
If it advances 4 or more, it teleports and gets to deepstrike somewhere else.
Have you guys seen this? Leaked Kustom Boosta-blasta rumours
Assuming the picture is to be trusted:
The rivet kannon seems sweet
FOUR burna exhausts? 4D3 auto hits is a big deal imo Grot blasta being S4?
Potential mortal wounds on the charge is always nice
Speed Mob ability is still unknown
5 power points is about 100 actual points that people care about, right?
In any case, 4x Burna boys costs about 61 points and 5 power points.
Seems nice and underpriced, these things are decent.
2 shot plasma that hits on a 3+ - always overcharged but does D6dmg.
If it advances 4 or more, it teleports and gets to deepstrike somewhere else.
Those rules are hilarious! I love that haha. The gun itself seems quite powerful with a chance to deal 3 mortal wounds in addation to normal damage coupled with a +2 to hit as well
6PL might be a bit worrisome for the durability though
Edit: Would the shokk tunnel proc on a 3+ with the rumoured evil sunz trait? And am I correct in thinking it's automatic and not a choice?
2 shot plasma that hits on a 3+ - always overcharged but does D6dmg + extra mortal on 6 to wound.
If it advances 4 or more, it teleports and gets to deepstrike somewhere else.
Standard rokkit, and now standard saws - S6 -1AP.
3+ to hit rifle, plasma rule is now on unmodified 1's.
yeah seems to be automatic... the 3+ to hit with a ass2 s8 ap-3 Dd6 weapon seems veeeeeeerrrryyyy nice! but beeing +100 points?
maybe hiding 2 of em behind BLOS terrain and then hope to get the jump off? would be hitting on 4+ though... idk have the feeling it looks good on paper but on the actual battlefield? idk... it all depends on how costly trukks are going to be... and tankbustaz off course. if a couple of tankbustaz in a trukk are about the same cost of 2 dragstaz? what would you take?
two dragstaz performs silimlar to 6-7 tankbustaz in a trukk with 2 bombsquigs (roughly 200ish points about 5-7dmg per round against t7 3+ save vehicles)
I've seen that page too, I posted info from it over on r/orks this morning. Didn't want to go too crazy since it seemed too good to be true.
Basically I think we've been given a lascannon. 14" move (maybe more from special rules,) and 24" range gives a 38" threat envelope while hitting on 3's. Add in the Evil Sunz tactic, and whatever stratagem that might apply, and three of those is our most effective heavy armor weapon. Use three of the Blasta to clear screens, and maybe we can counter Knights?
beerbeard wrote: I've seen that page too, I posted info from it over on r/orks this morning. Didn't want to go too crazy since it seemed too good to be true.
Basically I think we've been given a lascannon. 14" move (maybe more from special rules,) and 24" range gives a 38" threat envelope while hitting on 3's. Add in the Evil Sunz tactic, and whatever stratagem that might apply, and three of those is our most effective heavy armor weapon. Use three of the Blasta to clear screens, and maybe we can counter Knights?
It also teleports when advancing (half the time), which is pretty cool. So the threat range is even bigger.
RedNoak wrote: yeah seems to be automatic... the 3+ to hit with a ass2 s8 ap-3 Dd6 weapon seems veeeeeeerrrryyyy nice!
but beeing +100 points?
maybe hiding 2 of em behind BLOS terrain and then hope to get the jump off? would be hitting on 4+ though... idk have the feeling it looks good on paper but on the actual battlefield? idk...
it all depends on how costly trukks are going to be... and tankbustaz off course. if a couple of tankbustaz in a trukk are about the same cost of 2 dragstaz? what would you take?
two dragstaz performs silimlar to 6-7 tankbustaz in a trukk with 2 bombsquigs (roughly 200ish points about 5-7dmg per round against t7 3+ save vehicles)
thoughts?
Yea, definitely take this over 7 TBs in a trukk. Assuming it has 8 wounds (hard to read) there are a ton more T6 wounds this way. Also...these vehicles do not degrade!!! ALSO...Mob rule!
If lootas have 8 power levels at 85, I think it is too much to hope that this buggy will be 63. I'd take it at 100, maybe 120.
An hour ago I wasn't going to buy Speed Freaks....
Note there is a new keyword as well..."speed freaks."
RedNoak wrote: yeah seems to be automatic... the 3+ to hit with a ass2 s8 ap-3 Dd6 weapon seems veeeeeeerrrryyyy nice!
but beeing +100 points?
maybe hiding 2 of em behind BLOS terrain and then hope to get the jump off? would be hitting on 4+ though... idk have the feeling it looks good on paper but on the actual battlefield? idk...
it all depends on how costly trukks are going to be... and tankbustaz off course. if a couple of tankbustaz in a trukk are about the same cost of 2 dragstaz? what would you take?
two dragstaz performs silimlar to 6-7 tankbustaz in a trukk with 2 bombsquigs (roughly 200ish points about 5-7dmg per round against t7 3+ save vehicles)
thoughts?
Yea, definitely take this over 7 TBs in a trukk. Assuming it has 8 wounds (hard to read) there are a ton more T6 wounds this way. Also...these vehicles do not degrade!!! ALSO...Mob rule!
If lootas have 8 power levels at 85, I think it is too much to hope that this buggy will be 63. I'd take it at 100, maybe 120.
An hour ago I wasn't going to buy Speed Freaks....
Note there is a new keyword as well..."speed freaks."
Also, dakka x3 applies to it as well meaning you're generating extra shots with your BS 3+ gun.
I wanted to complain about the fact that it's basically two plasma shots for 120 points - but then I saw the d6 damage.
The fact it can teleport is just hilariously fun.
Is it strong? Not sure - it's basically x2 Lascannons for 120 points - but at BS3+, mobile, and Orky; I'll take it. I don't think it's AMAZING; but it's certainly better than what we've had so far, and definitely a step in the right direction.
I wouldn't go haywire with the word exclusive. Almost certain it just means exclusive for now like warglaives were exclusive for forgebane for a while. Seeing GW wants you to buy these boxes rather than buggies individually they want to get people buy NOW NOW NOW. GW's whole marketing is aimed to get people buy _now_ rather than collect for later.
When you factor in also that GW's boxed sets tend to eventually dissapear from sale if they truly would be exclusive it would mean these buggies would eventually go out of sale eventually...
Dunno. It was on secondary guns on the other instance that came to mind aka the weaker of the guns. As such I wasn't hoping for it to work for best gun here either.
Have to say plasma always being overcharged strikes me as a very Orky way of doing the rules; what self-respecting green skin is going to turn the dial down?! Makes me hopeful that the codex might have captured the right mix of randomness, fun and occasional insane OP that Orks should have.
What I found out interesting about that is that it's unmodified. Sign that GW migjht make it more sensible in say CA or are orks going to be special ones with actually sensible overcharge rule?
while im not sure how well these vehicles will do in the meta if they cost around 100pts it definitely seems they have some sweet benefits. the shockjump dragsta is good for antitank shooting and its speed is good for getting in range for that. and if it need to get to the back field it can make a few attempt's to shockjump (and it would be the whole squad that can do this, plus with cmd pt reroll its more likely). a good clan to use for the dragsta is evilsunz so it can fire full BS after advancing and jumping. this model would pair nicely in a list with kmk mekguns. it can even deploy behind so the mekguns can be right at the edge of deployment, and the dragstas just jump past them. you get close range and long range anti tank fire that will divide your enemy.
the boomblasta is preety nice, and while its main gun is good in range this model is best to get as close as possible to the enemy. youll want to charge this bad boy and get those sweet mortal wounds and do some damage with the burnas. the best clan trait to use with this buggy is the bloodaxes so it can get out of combat, get some shooting and recharge with more mortal wounds.
now that these are around 100pts i can see that bikes and old buggies meating a smaller distraction. oldbuggies come in around 50pts after upgrades (might decrease with possible changes in wpn prices) and added clan traits will benefit the original buggy. a bunch of skorcha buggies would be great with bloodaxe trait so that they can disengage out of combat if they are charged and still get in more flames.
a bunch of bikers with skorchasbuggies and the new boom blaster can make an awesome bloodaxe assault unit with a bikemek with kff for support (especially to repair the boom blastas).
In AoS 2.0, the first two battletomes had special abilities trigger on "unmodified 6" instead of the old "6 or more" but Malign Sorcery that came out at the same time uses the old notation throughout the book. So even if there's a deliberate change in design going on here, not everybody got the memo.
Guess we'll find it out in about 2 months. CA would be most likely place to errata this if they are going to change it for old weapons. Either way I think I'll propose this as new house rule anyway.
I'm just giddy over the fact that a grot and squig superhero team-up equals +2 to hit. I think I was always one of the few who loved the shokkjump dragsta model the most out of all the buggies (a possible tie with the megatrakk skrapjet) so I'm really happy these rules seem quite good.
And the shokk tunnel is Ork randomness done in a way I like. They don't really know how to activate warpdrive, it just sort of happens every once in a while
The Kustom Boosta-blasta is most likely going to be a bit cheaper in points because of lower PL .It probably has a role as an annoyance vehicle with those exhausts and a pretty decent threat with it's rivet kannon and dealing mortal wounds on the charge.
I like the rules for these two buggies a lot more than the rukkatrukk. Obviously it's going to come down to point cost at some point but this gives me hope for the rest of the buggies and dare I say, maybe the rest of the codex as well?
Decent to good shooting on Ork vehicle? Without random table(s) to roll on? What madness is this?!
Footprint is going to be a problem with a buggy heavy force, isn't it. Three in a squadron is huuuge, going by my chariots on those bases. Especially when GW wants us to run other vehicles as well
PS: It IS a bummer that GW decided to make Kommandos currently unavailable just when I finally decided to buy them for real - after ten years of wanting the boss for a conversion - and this ebay store selling their big shoota Kommando and metal burna boy just after I found them! Looks like it's Stormboyz -> Kommandos time.
Binabik15 wrote: Decent to good shooting on Ork vehicle? Without random table(s) to roll on? What madness is this?!
Footprint is going to be a problem with a buggy heavy force, isn't it. Three in a squadron is huuuge, going by my chariots on those bases. Especially when GW wants us to run other vehicles as well
PS: It IS a bummer that GW decided to make Kommandos currently unavailable just when I finally decided to buy them for real - after ten years of wanting the boss for a conversion - and this ebay store selling their big shoota Kommando and metal burna boy just after I found them! Looks like it's Stormboyz -> Kommandos time.
Better idea to convert kommandos probably. Lot cheaper. And if their and stormboyz cost don't increase like boyz you will want them before boyz anyway so if you had 180 boyz the way to go would be 45 kommando and 90 stormboyz first instead. Except maybe deep strike strategem token unit of boyz.
And 45 finecast kommandos would be pretty expensive...
geargutz wrote: while im not sure how well these vehicles will do in the meta if they cost around 100pts it definitely seems they have some sweet benefits. the shockjump dragsta is good for antitank shooting and its speed is good for getting in range for that. and if it need to get to the back field it can make a few attempt's to shockjump (and it would be the whole squad that can do this, plus with cmd pt reroll its more likely). a good clan to use for the dragsta is evilsunz so it can fire full BS after advancing and jumping. this model would pair nicely in a list with kmk mekguns. it can even deploy behind so the mekguns can be right at the edge of deployment, and the dragstas just jump past them. you get close range and long range anti tank fire that will divide your enemy.
the boomblasta is preety nice, and while its main gun is good in range this model is best to get as close as possible to the enemy. youll want to charge this bad boy and get those sweet mortal wounds and do some damage with the burnas. the best clan trait to use with this buggy is the bloodaxes so it can get out of combat, get some shooting and recharge with more mortal wounds.
now that these are around 100pts i can see that bikes and old buggies meating a smaller distraction. oldbuggies come in around 50pts after upgrades (might decrease with possible changes in wpn prices) and added clan traits will benefit the original buggy. a bunch of skorcha buggies would be great with bloodaxe trait so that they can disengage out of combat if they are charged and still get in more flames.
a bunch of bikers with skorchasbuggies and the new boom blaster can make an awesome bloodaxe assault unit with a bikemek with kff for support (especially to repair the boom blastas).
PL 6 indicates 120 points. But, at 120 point even my Death Guard would field those Shookjump Dragstas - they make helbrutes look like lumbering peashooters, and helbrutes aren't terrible at all.
Two shots S8 AP-3 D6 damage hitting on 3+ with a chance of dealing extra mortal wounds? Yes, please!
For evil suns players, these will be jumping all over the board, scoring VP and blowing up non-T8 vehicles while they do. Against knights, a full squadron stills does 6-7 damage. Not bad at all.
Jidmah wrote: For evil suns players, these will be jumping all over the board, scoring VP and blowing up non-T8 vehicles while they do. Against knights, a full squadron stills does 6-7 damage. Not bad at all.
Why would you take these for evil sunz? 14"+24"=already good enough threat range to...well anything.
Bad moon meanwhile. Reroll 1's to hit. Better hit chance, near zero overheats...
Blood axe. Shoot, charge, fall back, shoot, charge. Charge isn't intended to cause damage but to tag enemy and prevent from shooting.
You take evil sun for slow moving units like dreadnoughts, boyz(if you are silly enough to take 7pts boyz when they were mediocre even at 6pts) etc. Not for fast moving vehicles.
Jidmah wrote: For evil suns players, these will be jumping all over the board, scoring VP and blowing up non-T8 vehicles while they do. Against knights, a full squadron stills does 6-7 damage. Not bad at all.
Why would you take these for evil sunz? 14"+24"=already good enough threat range to...well anything.
Bad moon meanwhile. Reroll 1's to hit. Better hit chance, near zero overheats...
Blood axe. Shoot, charge, fall back, shoot, charge. Charge isn't intended to cause damage but to tag enemy and prevent from shooting.
You take evil sun for slow moving units like dreadnoughts, boyz(if you are silly enough to take 7pts boyz when they were mediocre even at 6pts) etc. Not for fast moving vehicles.
Because Evil Suns can shoot assault weapons without penalty after jumping on 3+.
Why would you take these for evil sunz? 14"+24"=already good enough threat range to...well anything.
.
i suggested evil sunz becasue of jumping and still firing the main gun at full bs (jumping would be good if the enemy backing you dragstas in a corner or the enemy has a really durable shooting platform on their table edge that needs to die sooner), but if you dont plan to jump then badmoons does sound like the best fit. good catch.
I just want some because they seem really cool! Jumpyjumpjump!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Indeed, I'd say my favourite thing is that it's a 4+ ability. Means as their player, I need to factor in what they'll be shooting up if they do or don't jump. Helps keep my opponent guessing too - which seems very, very Orky to me!
Jidmah wrote: Because Evil Suns can shoot assault weapons without penalty after jumping on 3+.
With 14"+24" threat range you rarely NEED to jump which top of that is 50-50 anyway so not something you should be planning for. Better to be effective always than more effective sometimes. Especially when difference is 7 hits(bad moon on advance) vs 8(evil sun advancing) in the some case vs 14 vs 12 regularly(with bonus of less overheats).
Jidmah wrote: Because Evil Suns can shoot assault weapons without penalty after jumping on 3+.
With 14"+24" threat range you rarely NEED to jump which top of that is 50-50 anyway so not something you should be planning for. Better to be effective always than more effective sometimes. Especially when difference is 7 hits(bad moon on advance) vs 8(evil sun advancing) in the some case vs 14 vs 12 regularly(with bonus of less overheats).
Unmodified roll of a 1. I don't think the Bad Moons trait will save mortal wounds, but it will still hit more.
Jidmah wrote: Because Evil Suns can shoot assault weapons without penalty after jumping on 3+.
With 14"+24" threat range you rarely NEED to jump which top of that is 50-50 anyway so not something you should be planning for. Better to be effective always than more effective sometimes. Especially when difference is 7 hits(bad moon on advance) vs 8(evil sun advancing) in the some case vs 14 vs 12 regularly(with bonus of less overheats).
Unmodified roll of a 1. I don't think the Bad Moons trait will save mortal wounds, but it will still hit more.
You roll 1, you reroll it. Bad moon isn't modifier but reroll. Just because rolling 2 vs alaitoc doesn't blow you up anymore doesn't mean you can't reroll 1.
In regards to the new vehicles and the bases, is anyone else considering basing their Buggies/Wartrakks/Skorchas? I intend to keep using mine and it'll seem odd with some vehicles based and others not.
And also, we are getting a new HQ. Now maybe it's released on november 3rd or several weeks after but the warboss on trike is a great model and a new datasheet so saying that we're not getting a new HQ sculpt feels disingenuous.
I get that some people would want a new sculpt for the "normal" warboss but at least he's Grukk can be purchased standalone for Kill Team now. Or buy the trike warboss, use the trike for scrap parts and use that guy. Obviously we all wanted more, but we got a fairly significant release and we're orks so kitbashing is always on the menu
That shokkjump and boosta-blasta give me so much hope after the squigbuggy disappointment. The boosta-blasta's got actually solid risk-reward (get close and you get 4D3 burna hits and a 4+ to cause mortal wounds) and both of them *actually factor in ork ballistic skill for their rules* one by having straight six shots, the other by just having BS3+.
lord_blackfang wrote: How GW does their bookkeeping has no bearing on objective reality. The 3rd of November is in November, not in October.
It is if people keep insisting wrongly october has no other releases. You get to order other ork stuff in october than speed freak. Thus it's october release. Similarly stuff that came on pre-order 29.9 were not october release but september.
lord_blackfang wrote: How GW does their bookkeeping has no bearing on objective reality. The 3rd of November is in November, not in October.
It is if people keep insisting wrongly october has no other releases. You get to order other ork stuff in october than speed freak. Thus it's october release. Similarly stuff that came on pre-order 29.9 were not october release but september.
Then Chewbacca for Star Wars Legion that comes out for Christmas is an October release because I can preorder him today?
lord_blackfang wrote: How GW does their bookkeeping has no bearing on objective reality. The 3rd of November is in November, not in October.
It is if people keep insisting wrongly october has no other releases. You get to order other ork stuff in october than speed freak. Thus it's october release. Similarly stuff that came on pre-order 29.9 were not october release but september.
That's a stance I don't know many businesses try to enforce. Look at graphics cards, the 2080 ti pre orders went up mid august, but they didn't start to ship until mid september, are those released in august then? No
The Tesla model 3 started taking pre orders on the 31st of march 2016 but they didn't start to fulfill those orders until more than a year later. That's not a release, that's a promise of a future release
Maybe some fields of business count pre-order as a release date but that is not standard practice and falls outside of what a lot of (probably most) people call logical reasoning. GW did this because of how white dwarf functions most likely, that doesn't make it clear for customers though
There's been told multiple times to give what exactly is and isn't in 'Orktober' a rest in this thread.
In the end it was just a pun used in the announcement of Speed Freeks that has been blown way out of proportion by enthusiastic players. How much you want to get upset over that is a discussion that can be held in General Discussion instead of rehashing it here again.
The only thing we know is that the non-Speed Freeks Ork stuff isn't going to be released before November 3rd, that's it.
Reading the rules for the random teleport of the Shokkjump dragsta has just given me an excellent conversion idea - beyond my skill level to do it justice so anyone else feel free to steal it... A Back to the Future inspired, DeLorean, Marty + Doc Orkversion
So, looking at current Codex prices we can see that Orks don't achieve the 1:20 ratio a single time using Codex prices for Fast Attack units. (I painfully know how true this is because I used to play some games with very casual players who used PL. I soon realised what a 'double whammy' PL was for Orks. We're already weak with no Codex, then we generally get the worse end of the stick using PL. As our strongest choce of Boyz performs badly using the PL: Points ratio.Rare exceptions are things like fully tooled up Nobz (PK + Kombiweps) or the BigTrakk with Supascorcha + all other possible weapons and PL gives upgrades for 'free'.)
Anyway... Optimistically we could hope for a roughly 1:15 conversion which would bring points costs down under most people's estimations of 100-120, into the 90 range.
Yup, for some reason GW completely threw out their PL to Points ratio rules when designing the Ork index army. It's as if different writers didn't collaborate!
crzylgs wrote: Reading the rules for the random teleport of the Shokkjump dragsta has just given me an excellent conversion idea - beyond my skill level to do it justice so anyone else feel free to steal it... A Back to the Future inspired, DeLorean, Marty + Doc Orkversion
crzylgs wrote: Reading the rules for the random teleport of the Shokkjump dragsta has just given me an excellent conversion idea - beyond my skill level to do it justice so anyone else feel free to steal it... A Back to the Future inspired, DeLorean, Marty + Doc Orkversion
At least we now know that the speed mob rule is simply deploy as squadron, then after that they're individual models. A land speeder thing would have been more fun, but no biggie. At least they're not trying to "force" us to buy 3 of each to gain better buffs
KiriothTV
42 minutes ago
Speed Mo: The first time this unit is set up on the battlefield, all of its models must be placed within 6”s of at least one other model from the unit. From that point onward, each model operates independently and is treated as a separate unit for all rules purposes.
crzylgs wrote: Reading the rules for the random teleport of the Shokkjump dragsta has just given me an excellent conversion idea - beyond my skill level to do it justice so anyone else feel free to steal it... A Back to the Future inspired, DeLorean, Marty + Doc Orkversion
crzylgs wrote: Reading the rules for the random teleport of the Shokkjump dragsta has just given me an excellent conversion idea - beyond my skill level to do it justice so anyone else feel free to steal it... A Back to the Future inspired, DeLorean, Marty + Doc Orkversion
well...in a SENSE that would be R34 for orks. I mean cmon that Delorkian is sexy as hell and i want one. I may attempt that conversion myself (ignore the avatar when R34 is in question...)
Also YAY FOR SEPARATE UNIT RULE! So LD6 is 100% not a factor since they will never trigger it.
2 shot plasma that hits on a 3+ - always overcharged but does D6dmg.
If it advances 4 or more, it teleports and gets to deepstrike somewhere else.
Those rules are hilarious! I love that haha. The gun itself seems quite powerful with a chance to deal 3 mortal wounds in addation to normal damage coupled with a +2 to hit as well
6PL might be a bit worrisome for the durability though
Edit: Would the shokk tunnel proc on a 3+ with the rumoured evil sunz trait? And am I correct in thinking it's automatic and not a choice?
I don't know about anyone else and the image is slightly blurry. But the main gun seems to deal 1 mortal wound on a 6+ to wound.
Vineheart01 wrote: well...in a SENSE that would be R34 for orks.
I mean cmon that Delorkian is sexy as hell and i want one. I may attempt that conversion myself
Also YAY FOR SEPARATE UNIT RULE! So LD6 is 100% not a factor since they will never trigger it.
Well, it might be a factor in some niche cases with spells that take over a unit temporarily against a leadership test. I think thousand sons/tzeentch has one and genestealer cult has another. Also, and I might be making this up, but doesn't eldar have a spell were you roll off against the psykers LD and take mortal wounds for every point you're beaten by? But in most cases it won't matter.
2 shot plasma that hits on a 3+ - always overcharged but does D6dmg.
If it advances 4 or more, it teleports and gets to deepstrike somewhere else.
Those rules are hilarious! I love that haha. The gun itself seems quite powerful with a chance to deal 3 mortal wounds in addation to normal damage coupled with a +2 to hit as well
6PL might be a bit worrisome for the durability though
Edit: Would the shokk tunnel proc on a 3+ with the rumoured evil sunz trait? And am I correct in thinking it's automatic and not a choice?
I don't know about anyone else and the image is slightly blurry. But the main gun seems to deal 1 mortal wound on a 6+ to wound.
Yes, it does. I think I got overexcited reading that and just saw what I wanted to see. 1 MW is still solid though
Vineheart01 wrote: well...in a SENSE that would be R34 for orks.
I mean cmon that Delorkian is sexy as hell and i want one. I may attempt that conversion myself
Also YAY FOR SEPARATE UNIT RULE! So LD6 is 100% not a factor since they will never trigger it.
QFT. Nothing would break my Orky heart more than having a squadron and rolling an unlucky 6 for morale when you lose only 1 buggy.
so realistically with the shokk jump dragsters. They also ignore the reserves deployment beta rule. So you could take a unit of three, a weirdboy with a unit of boys for Da jump, and a bunch stormboys and rush the board and basically be within 9" on turn 1.
fe40k wrote: The buggies jump is uncontrollable - it’s not a “may” option.
That’s going to feel bad for sure when you need a couple extra inches to get within 8” to use the exhausts, then HAVE to move away more than 9”.
I understand flamers are 8” because then they can’t be used in combination with deep strike - but, why prevent one gun from being able to fire, when the rest still can?
At least they’d have a purpose then - with deep strikers, and countering deep strikers.
As it is now, the flmaers are a useless tax, instead of a fun addition.
Uh the teleporting dragsta is not the one with the flamethrower exhaust.
fe40k wrote: The buggies jump is uncontrollable - it’s not a “may” option.
That’s going to feel bad for sure when you need a couple extra inches to get within 8” to use the exhausts, then HAVE to move away more than 9”.
I understand flamers are 8” because then they can’t be used in combination with deep strike - but, why prevent one gun from being able to fire, when the rest still can?
At least they’d have a purpose then - with deep strikers, and countering deep strikers.
As it is now, the flmaers are a useless tax, instead of a fun addition.
Uh the teleporting dragsta is not the one with the flamethrower exhaust.
Wouldn’t it be cool though? Teleporting right next to someone just to burn them with your exhaust.
I blame mobile and distractions for my mixup, lmao.
Okay so the Wartrike essentially has the waagh ability that got FAQ'd to biker warbosses. Good for vehicle heavy armies. I'm still curious as to it's stats.
So we know now who was putting out those pictures.
That "Assault 9" Mek speshul. Maybe I'll have to take back my words? Maybe GW has learned that to compensate for BS5+ you need a good amount of shoots?
I mean credit where credit's due, this all seems great IMO. They're fun and seem to have their own niche. I'm stoked. Hopefully the rest of the buggies will hit the shelves with the codex.
One cool thing about the burna bottles is that they ignore cover (something all flame weapons should have but still) so it helps mitigate the prepared positions stratagem if you can get it close enough to chuck 'em at something T1
I'm pretty pleased with the new rules leaks, especially because I'm going to be buying speed freeks regardless of the higher than optimal price (I dont have any bikes and my local shop gives a 10% discount if you request something to be held for you). Both the buggies look useful and the dragsta was my favorite anyways so I'm a fan. I don't see myself using the teleport option too much though. The thing already has nice mobility and teleporting is not a sure thing with a chance of hurting yourself on an already fragile model. Ill probably be running badmoonz because thats what my lads are painted as, so I dont see myself losing accuracy for the chance at redeployment. But ill say it is nice to have the option to try if you see an opportunity to snipe a character or get on an objective. Evil suns seems like the next best bet if you want to teleport. No loss in accuracy and a better chance to jump.
As for the kustom boosta blasta, am I reading the stats right? It looks like the grot gunner only applies to the grot blasta on board, not the rivet cannon, which is really... Underwhelming. The high amount of shots really helps here but it seems like such a tease when all the other main guns so far have gotten accuracy boosts.
I'm excited to see what the speed freek key word means. I'm hoping for some type of durabilty upgrade, like -1 to hit when advancing. Might be too good to be true, but if that's what it is then ill be running everything as evil suns, paint job be damned.
mhalko1 wrote: Okay so the Wartrike essentially has the waagh ability that got FAQ'd to biker warbosses. Good for vehicle heavy armies. I'm still curious as to it's stats.
The warbiker boss affects Infantry and Bikers.
This affects Vehicles and Bikers.
Slight difference, and a nice overlap if you want to make an ork list - you can include a footyboss and a trike boss and bring the waagh to everyone.
So, looking over the stats and assuming a rougly equivalent statline (from what we've seen so far the number of wounds and speed varies a bit but the statlines seem pretty comparable) it looks like we have the following roles for our buggies:
Skrapjet: Primarily anti-tank, since it's got multidamage ranged attacks and a rokkit based weapon as its main armament
Squig Buggy: Primarily anti high-toughness low armor infantry. Weird little niche, but with the weaponry it has there ya go.
Boosta-blasta: Balanced. I'm calling this one mostly useful against infantry since 4d3 burna exhausts plus a stikkbomb sounds like a good little chaff clearing tool, but the rivet cannon is fun especially against light vehicles.
Boomdakka Snazzwagon: Anti-infantry/anti-meq. Kind of like I predicted, I'm the least impressed by the anti-infantry shooting focused offering. -1 to hit is very nice, but for all its purported dakka unless it has another to-hit bonus it downs only 2.5 geq a turn at range and 4 up close with the grenades. Chop the squishies boyz.
Shokkjump Dragsta: Anti-tank. This seems to be in direct competition with the skrapjet, and I find it most likely that it's going to be the mobile, safer option to the skrapjet's higher damage output when it goes all-in with the nose drill. The dragsta deals 1.2 extra wounds vs a standard T7 3+ tank if you assume it has the same 4 attacks WS4+ S6 as the other buggies and you use just the rokkit cannon and the drill.
So far, loving the Trikeboss, the Boosta-blasta, and what we've seen so far of the Skrapjet, liking the Dragsta fine enough and not a huge fan rules-wise of the squigbuggy or the snazzwagon.
Ok so I was kind of right, -1 to hit available to speed freeks via stratagem. Snazzwagon and scrap jet will be good if they have any increased accuracy, otherwise a little meh. I'm starting to warm up more and more to bloodaxe clan traits for these buggies. With so many close ranged grenades and flamers and melee weapons (as well as the Snazzwagon additional explosion chances) they want to be up close and personal, but so far the melee profiles are not beefy enough to really prevent them getting bogged down in a large combat. Bloodaxe rules will really help them keep moving. I like the added melee rules though. Good way to let it "tag" enemy vehicles and do a little damage, then it comes to their turn and they lose shooting whether they fall back or not.
Latro_ wrote: Seems a lot of convoluted meh ork weapon options on models that will be fairly easy to kill and will hit poorly.
Really? "Easy to kill"?
Spoiler:
That's going to be a Big Deal, especially since there is no range that you can get around to negate it.
Then you have the Boomdakka Snazzwagon, with this:
Spoiler:
This might actually be meaner than Alaitoc with some of this stuff.
I mean...realistically that stratagem you're going to use on your biggest warbiker mob (assuming they're half-decent) otherwise you're using it on ONE of your little 80 point buggies.
The snazzwagon getting -1 to hit is pretty nice tbf.
Still, overall these buggies are T6 8W 4+ save at a points cost where other vehicles tend to be T7 W10-11 3+. So yeah, I'd say they're fragile.
I'm liking the squigbuggy more that most of you...especially the range.
I think it's pretty funny that will all the crazy dakka these things have, a shot squig outranges them all, and the little guys still live long enough to bite somebody. Bilesquigs are going to be nice against mid-sized nids.
I'm most dissapointed with the skrapjet. It's only weapon (so far) is worse than 4 tankbustas. It better have something big to go along with it.
I doubt any single buggy will be more than 130 points but T6 is sort of odd, In most cases it's the same as T7 because there are so few S7 weapons IMO. Non overcharged plasma and autocannons. Then I'm reminded of how many hemlocks I face and their guns are S12 so they will melt right through buggies if they want to. And Helverins will wreck them as well.
The buggies are not durable, but I'm not sure they're as fragile as some people might assume.
JimOnMars wrote: I'm liking the squigbuggy more that most of you...especially the range.
I think it's pretty funny that will all the crazy dakka these things have, a shot squig outranges them all, and the little guys still live long enough to bite somebody. Bilesquigs are going to be nice against mid-sized nids.
I'm most dissapointed with the skrapjet. It's only weapon (so far) is worse than 4 tankbustas. It better have something big to go along with it.
It seems to have at least two other guns- another rokkit launcher of some kind, and something like a dakkagun. Also, I think it is meant to be the melee one. Hopefully it gets more attacks.
It takes roughly 6 or 7 bs3 lascannon equivilent weapons to kill one of these buggies reliably. For the snazzwagon or a buggies with the exhaust clouds, it takes about 9. Lascannons are 25 points apiece so that's 150 to 225 points to one shot a buggy not counting the cost of the platform. For a price point of around 100pts per buggy that comes close to the whole "it should take three times somethings point cost to kill it in one round" rule. And they don't degrade. I'm not going to call them durable, but if paired up in a vehicle heavy army id say they have a place.
I think we should also think about all these prices in the context of the rumor of 120point battlewagons. Battlewagons are a lot more durable than these guys and even with no weapons id say they are likely to be priced higher than. These buggies. I feel the buggies will be closer to 100 points if the Battlewagons rumor is true. And if Battlewagons are 120 and buggies are 100 we can start to actually take enough vehicles that they may actually oversaturate enemy antitank.
If Battlewagons and trukks are well priced, i think the buggies will have a place. If the other vehicles are bad, the buggies will lack support and will also be bad. We will just have to see.
Oversaturating antitank is kinda my goal lol.
I already have 6 killakanz and 6 deffdreads, but currently nothing in the other slots vehicle-wise is worth using. Even with just those 12 i often end up facing people that planned for no more than 4 vehicles.
I do love the idea of the wartrike letting Stompas charge after advancing. Who needs elegant Eldar engineering-sorcery when you can just yell at your mobile scrap yard real good?
And, even though it's almost certainly a mistake (or a particularly adver-speak way of describing getting another BS 5+/6+ shot), that article said D3 generates extra hits, not attacks, on a 6: "With Dakka! Dakka! Dakka! – which lets Orks generate additional hits when they roll an unmodified 6 – ". So there's the tiniest bit of hope they realized it's a ton of rolling for very little reward and decided to give us back "effectively" BS 4+ in the actual codex?
PiñaColada wrote: I doubt any single buggy will be more than 130 points but T6 is sort of odd, In most cases it's the same as T7 because there are so few S7 weapons IMO. Non overcharged plasma and autocannons. Then I'm reminded of how many hemlocks I face and their guns are S12 so they will melt right through buggies if they want to. And Helverins will wreck them as well.
The buggies are not durable, but I'm not sure they're as fragile as some people might assume.
It's not so much about just S7 also, it's S6 such as shuriken cannons which will wreck this even easier. Two of the vehicles are pretty useful, such as the as the exhaust flames one and the s8 shooting one that hits on 3+. Rest are pretty mediocre to bad, which is fine I suppose.
That stratagem also will do very little for durability as it's massively worse than other similar stratagems such as lightning reflexes. Forcing you to use it in your own movement phase makes it easy to counter if playing against a non-bad opponent (bad opponents fall for everything so it doesn't really matter what you use)
That "Assault 9" Mek speshul. Maybe I'll have to take back my works? Maybe GW has learned that to compensate for BS5+ you need a good amount of shoots?
They have better than expected rules. But still not great.
I like the good range on a lot of the guns. Makes some of these into fairly durable weapons platforms you can keep out of harms way pretty easily. You are paying for CC on these and the short-ish range on them makes that a possibility but I'm preferring them for a support role. Meaning those with 36" are going to be the ones I pick for games.
I'm really hoping 80-90pts. But suspect they will be 100pts+.
Someone else noticed that the article states "[...] With Dakka! Dakka! Dakka! – which lets Orks generate additional hits when they roll an unmodified 6..." in the blurb about the megatrakk skrapjet
Additional hits, not shots. Do we think that's a typo or have they massively improved the rule since it was previewed? It could just be a clumsy way of saying that the extra shots have a chance of scoring additional hits I suppose
