lolman1c wrote: Rumours from a unknown source just come in from my end:
Gw is recalling all the ork models. And I mean all of them! New ones like trukks, Gorkanaut, dakkajets, etc... Okay, i know there is a lot of parody in this thread but I'm actually serious about this one! They are recalling them according to my source so this might suggest they're repackaging them. Doubt they would replace the whole army and I doubt they woukd limit the entire ork rnage to online only.
Interesting if true, have they ever recalled an entire product line before? How long would a repack take, couple of months maybe?
lolman1c wrote: My source comes from someone who actually went to a gw store and was told this. I trust this person but, as I say, it's hard to trust me because you don't know me. But seriously, not trolling, this comes from a customer not a "my mates brothers girlfriends dads work friend who knows a guy in gw". Just a jormal dude who was in a gw store.
It's a common practice for them to recall all boxes to repackage them with new rules and the new colored construction manual. it has happened for previous releases as well.
If anything, all recalled products are confirmed to be in the new codex
Prepare for some kits going to online only with that generic white box as well. Recently ordered a Necron Doomsday Ark, and was a bit surprised to get the white Citadel box.
The Space Wolf kill-team comes with transfers, but the ork one doesn't show any. Not sure what that might indicate, if anything. A new transfer sheet for orks which isn't quite ready?
Yeah, that kill team is notning new at all... kinda lazy.
As for the recall, i was thinking new codex data sheets. Must be a big change if they all have to go back. I have heard theories that they are moving the ork line to online only but this woukd be sucide and a bad business move. It would be cheaper to just sell the products in store untill you ran out... a mass recall is expensive!
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Perfect Organism wrote: The Space Wolf kill-team comes with transfers, but the ork one doesn't show any. Not sure what that might indicate, if anything. A new transfer sheet for orks which isn't quite ready?
Orks have a pretty good transfer sheet with ever clan on.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just read the FAQ:
" WHAT MODELS CAN I HAVE IN MY KILL TEAM?
Every Kill Team faction has 1-6 specially chosen datasheets you can choose units from,
designed to represent the kind of forces that would be sent on the guerilla operations for which
kill teams are famous. We’ve picked plastic kits which can be converted and kitbashed for
these, plus some units – like Craftworlds Rangers and Kommandos – that it’d be weird to leave
out."
Looks lioe no plastic Kommandos boyz! Sorry!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I would also like to remind everyone that the new GSC models are no where tp be found in the new Killteam starter set... Basically meaning it's for the codex and basically meaning they are likely to be the faction to get the big update.
cuda1179 wrote: It's been a long while since any codex had a "big release". Marines got the primaris update, Nurgle got some love, Custodes got 3 kits, and everyone else got a scrap here or there at most. That means that it will be 7 months since anything major. I think we're due.
Has anyone else found it surprising that GW has never released a Squigoth model (of any size). It seems almost like a no-brainer choice that Ork players would buy in mass.
They haven't because FW sells two squiggoths. And one of them isn't even a totally unreasonable price.
I don't get this comment. Just because Forge World does it, why would it stop Games Workshop from doing it? After all, only way to get Forge World is through online. They don't sell them in GW stores. Not everyone buys online. Makes bad business sense to not make a product to sell in stores just because FW sells online only. I don't buy FW because of shipping. If I can buy it at a store GW has my money. If FW only GW doesn't have my money then. What makes more business sense?
So again I don't understand just because FW does it means GW will not.
All that means is there is no plastic kit for Kommandoes at present, and they don't want to reveal future releases at this stage. Plastic Kommandoes could be several months away, they would not mention them in a FAQ that won't even be especially relevant by then (it explains release decisions for Killteam).
Plastic kommandos seem kind of unlikely anyway, considering that they have a decent finecast kit, they are easy to kitbash from existing parts (or just represent with a paintjob) and there are a lot more things in the ork codex which need new models more urgently.
The kill team boxes confirm the 'Ork vs Space Wolves' rumour. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if we released with no new models and a lacklustre codex. "New" GW is basically old GW but with better marketing. They're exactly the same.
I would also like to remind everyone that the new GSC models are no where tp be found in the new Killteam starter set... Basically meaning it's for the codex and basically meaning they are likely to be the faction to get the big update.
Or they are for expansion. Or there's multiple big releases. So far we don't know anything certain about ork release.
cuda1179 wrote: It's been a long while since any codex had a "big release". Marines got the primaris update, Nurgle got some love, Custodes got 3 kits, and everyone else got a scrap here or there at most. That means that it will be 7 months since anything major. I think we're due.
Has anyone else found it surprising that GW has never released a Squigoth model (of any size). It seems almost like a no-brainer choice that Ork players would buy in mass.
They haven't because FW sells two squiggoths. And one of them isn't even a totally unreasonable price.
I don't get this comment. Just because Forge World does it, why would it stop Games Workshop from doing it? After all, only way to get Forge World is through online. They don't sell them in GW stores. Not everyone buys online. Makes bad business sense to not make a product to sell in stores just because FW sells online only. I don't buy FW because of shipping. If I can buy it at a store GW has my money. If FW only GW doesn't have my money then. What makes more business sense?
So again I don't understand just because FW does it means GW will not.
Also, it has happened before. Remember this guy? The Forgeworld resin Battlewagon:
So does that starter kit not include the Deff Gun?
Also I hate when they advertise it as "5 Burna Boys" because you only get 4 burnas in the kit. The 5th model is a mek
cuda1179 wrote: It's been a long while since any codex had a "big release". Marines got the primaris update, Nurgle got some love, Custodes got 3 kits, and everyone else got a scrap here or there at most. That means that it will be 7 months since anything major. I think we're due.
Has anyone else found it surprising that GW has never released a Squigoth model (of any size). It seems almost like a no-brainer choice that Ork players would buy in mass.
you forget Imperial Knights which got 4 new kits. even if we admit that of those, it's two kit varients and shrink it down to 2 kits each that's still pretty good (and if we're going to do that we should discount hellblasters as unique from Intercessors)
Icculus wrote: So does that starter kit not include the Deff Gun?
Also I hate when they advertise it as "5 Burna Boys" because you only get 4 burnas in the kit. The 5th model is a mek
Haha, I don't think the people who designed it know their own Ork product. They probably looked at it, didn't play Orks and went "yep, all bunra boyz. He clearly has a flame thrower and not an advanced peice of tecknolgy the imperium would dream of having".
cuda1179 wrote: It's been a long while since any codex had a "big release". Marines got the primaris update, Nurgle got some love, Custodes got 3 kits, and everyone else got a scrap here or there at most. That means that it will be 7 months since anything major. I think we're due.
Has anyone else found it surprising that GW has never released a Squigoth model (of any size). It seems almost like a no-brainer choice that Ork players would buy in mass.
you forget Imperial Knights which got 4 new kits. even if we admit that of those, it's two kit varients and shrink it down to 2 kits each that's still pretty good (and if we're going to do that we should discount hellblasters as unique from Intercessors)
Caederes wrote: All the negativity here based on practically nothing is driving me up the wall
As for a whole range being recalled, I'm sure that happened to Dark Eldar
Meh, I'm just being real... I seriously want to be proven wrong! I want to make a 40k general theead apologising to all those I told we wouldn't be getting anything. Yet, I would also probably make a thread syaing "I told you so" because I am actually never right.... so would be nice to be right for once. Yet that's only a small thing i want to be some ind of therapy to help me through the cidex if it all goes wrong.
I 90% want an epic Ork range and to be proven wrong.
10% want to be a 'I told you so' thread but only to help me get through not getting a good codex as my tears wet my keyboard.
Caederes wrote: All the negativity here based on practically nothing is driving me up the wall
As for a whole range being recalled, I'm sure that happened to Dark Eldar
The negativity is precisely BECAUSE there is nothing. We've seen new GSC models ffs. At this point it feels like classic GW trolling Ork players. Late codex, no new releases, have fun guys. Personally I'm sick of it.
Also, wish they did more with thr ork kill team box... I mean come on! It comes with Imperial terrian and a sprue we already have! What an insult! Space wolves primaris stuff might also suggets nothing new for them... It would make no business sence to package old models if new bettermones come outnin a month. Which is all the evidence I need to prove that none or us are getting much.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also the burna boyz are on a 32mm base rather than their normal 25mm for what ever that means... do we now have to rebase all our burna boyz? I got 8 I'd rather not have to touch because I'm happy with them. XD
JawRippa wrote: I'd actually prefer them not to announce ork codex only to follow it up with 1 month of absolute silence on the matter.
Where are our damn teasers and previews?
This is wat i am saying! If they had anything for Ork boyz they probably would have announced it in Kill team to build hype.
However, this does mean there is still hope for warbosses, buggies, kopptas and looted stuff as they're not kill team.
The kustom dice are confirmed (althouh i have the orginal Ork dice and they're perfect for me) but it's kill team rather than 40k so either they're doing 2 sets of dice or the guy was wrong.
lolman1c wrote: Also, wish they did more with thr ork kill team box... I mean come on! It comes with Imperial terrian and a sprue we already have! What an insult! Space wolves primaris stuff might also suggets nothing new for them... It would make no business sence to package old models if new bettermones come outnin a month. Which is all the evidence I need to prove that none or us are getting much.
I don't think this has any bearing on future releases. We know for a fact that gsc is getting new minis and yet the Killteam box is using the old ones.
The spacewolves and ork codexes were announced a little early to ensure 40k fans that they wouldn't be abandoned when aos2 launched.
There has not been a 40k related preview event since those codexes were announced. The next likely preview event is Warhammerfest Europe in the middle of August.
With Killteam, the remainder of the stormcast and nighthaunt, Cawdor and Titanicus all coming in the near future, I would not expect to see gw show anything new for space wolves or orks until then.
If we see nothing then or at Nova at the end of August, then ork players can begin to worry.
I am still optimistic as we still have that wheel rumour engine which has not been solved.
There is the outside possibility that it could be a new gsc vehicle, but my money is still firmly on orks. By the way, was it not rumoured months ago that orks would not see new minis until a cult of speed expansion at the end of the year?
That rumour is looking more likely by the day.
lolman1c wrote: Also, wish they did more with thr ork kill team box... I mean come on! It comes with Imperial terrian and a sprue we already have! What an insult! Space wolves primaris stuff might also suggets nothing new for them... It would make no business sence to package old models if new bettermones come outnin a month. Which is all the evidence I need to prove that none or us are getting much.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also the burna boyz are on a 32mm base rather than their normal 25mm for what ever that means... do we now have to rebase all our burna boyz? I got 8 I'd rather not have to touch because I'm happy with them. XD
no space wolf player is expecting anything but standard priamris with a upgrade sprue. anything else is bonus. It's not like anyone is expecting "Primaris Marines on Primaris wolves, with wolfguns and wolfblades"
I'd not get too fixated on the Ork kill team box, GW's not gonna tip their hand with anything, it does however mean if you where hoping for a new burna boy kit you're likely SOL. as for the terrain, you're an Ork player, convert it! jeeze man, Orkifying stuff has been a proud Ork tradtion since 40k started.
lolman1c wrote: Yeah, that kill team is notning new at all... kinda lazy.
GW develops a whole new game.
"Kinda lazy."
Uh-huh. Sure.
In all fairness....Kill Team has been a thing for a LONG time. This is just a new release with new rules. And since Kill Team was pretty awesome already I don't know if they will have changed all that much except to reflect 8th editions new rules.
lolman1c wrote: Yeah, that kill team is notning new at all... kinda lazy.
GW develops a whole new game.
"Kinda lazy."
Uh-huh. Sure.
In all fairness....Kill Team has been a thing for a LONG time. This is just a new release with new rules. And since Kill Team was pretty awesome already I don't know if they will have changed all that much except to reflect 8th editions new rules.
The old kill team rules were 1-2 pages this is a large book. It’s a completely reworked from the ground up skirmish game using the kill team brand not reprinting of rules.
I’m likely buying the large box set (even though I don’t play GSC or ad mech but the discount makes them
Free) I may buy another building if not all the ruins are included. I’d want the ork boxset howeve I already have the servo hauler and don’t need 2. It’s not a good blocking terrain piece but I guess it’s good for conversions.
lolman1c wrote: Also, wish they did more with thr ork kill team box... I mean come on! It comes with Imperial terrian and a sprue we already have! What an insult! Space wolves primaris stuff might also suggets nothing new for them... It would make no business sence to package old models if new bettermones come outnin a month. Which is all the evidence I need to prove that none or us are getting much.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also the burna boyz are on a 32mm base rather than their normal 25mm for what ever that means... do we now have to rebase all our burna boyz? I got 8 I'd rather not have to touch because I'm happy with them. XD
In a month that box has sold huge amount of what it will sell in it's lifetime. Thus no big deal.
As for imperial terrain...well ork terrain would be nice but idea that they would now release terrains to all factions is a pipe dream
lolman1c wrote: Yeah, that kill team is notning new at all... kinda lazy.
GW develops a whole new game.
"Kinda lazy."
Uh-huh. Sure.
In all fairness....Kill Team has been a thing for a LONG time. This is just a new release with new rules. And since Kill Team was pretty awesome already I don't know if they will have changed all that much except to reflect 8th editions new rules.
Not sure what 8th ed has to do with kt seeing kt is stand alone game with own rules, not 8th ed lite. 8th for example doesn#t have alternating actions
BrianDavion wrote: no space wolf player is expecting anything but standard priamris with a upgrade sprue. anything else is bonus. It's not like anyone is expecting "Primaris Marines on Primaris wolves, with wolfguns and wolfblades"
Why wouldn't you expect that? They are the most popular marine chapter, so they seem likely to get something more than blood angels, etc. did and it's not like there is any model concept or naming scheme too stupid for space wolves.
So i live down the street from the guy that runs my local gw and I bumped into him when he was walking his dog. He had heard nothing about an ork recal but i suppose its possible that he didn't get the memo somehow. I then called my lgs and they had not heard anything either. That's the problem with he said she said rumors. The moment you say "someone told me" you remove yourself from being incorrect. What probably happened is someone saw the post from GW YORK and assumed the faction was being recalled. Gw stores have limited space and only keep on hand what sells well at their store. Is anyone surprised orks don't sell well?
jhnbrg wrote: All i can see is the new bases, there is no fething way i am going to rebase 250 painted models.
My entire ork colllection is going to be invalid or what?
Isn't the standard reply that models should be based on the bases they were supplied with? As far as I am aware, no-one from GW has stated that you must rebase older models.
The majority of my Marines and Orks are based on 25mm because that is what they were supplied with. They will remain on those.
jhnbrg wrote: All i can see is the new bases, there is no fething way i am going to rebase 250 painted models.
My entire ork colllection is going to be invalid or what?
yeah, I thought people might pick up on this more but they all focused on the other stuff I said that I don't even remember caring about when i typed it. XD It is werid and is also kinda a mini nerf to orks... it will be harder to find more boyz in the same space and in cc. I really hope it's just formkill team.
As for the terrian. 1. Sure I can convert it but why would I want too? I don't own a table so this crap is useless to me. If it was orky or came with orky bits to convert it then maybe I would so it would go well on my shelf with my army but the majority of players don't own a table and arn't going out of their way to by more sutff to convert 1 peice of terrian.
2.I play at a GW. GW only uses official GW terrian. And I'm sick of imperial gothic ruins... Would love an orky table for once in my life.
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grimdark83 wrote: So i live down the street from the guy that runs my local gw and I bumped into him when he was walking his dog. He had heard nothing about an ork recal but i suppose its possible that he didn't get the memo somehow. I then called my lgs and they had not heard anything either. That's the problem with he said she said rumors. The moment you say "someone told me" you remove yourself from being incorrect. What probably happened is someone saw the post from GW YORK and assumed the faction was being recalled. Gw stores have limited space and only keep on hand what sells well at their store. Is anyone surprised orks don't sell well?
No the source comes from a friend of mine i know. I did say though that we shouldn't look too much into it and it could just be them. Also he doesn't live in york.
to be frank, its really easy to be pessimistic against ork releases because as someone mentioned several pages ago, ork players have been completely SCREWED OVER since 5th ed. I know a lot of ork players that stated this is the final straw if GW gives them the shortstick again. You dont shaft a faction for almost 10 years and expect the fanbase to stick around. I'm tempted to do the same, but i dont care about tournament viability i just want casual games to be playable. Cant even casually play atm unless my opponent is dense to what orks do.
Billagio wrote: Wait the whole recall thing was a “legit” rumor? I thought it was just lolman trolling and showing how easy it is to make gak up and call it a “rumor”
The exact wording of the post from GW: York is that these were put in "Last Chance to Buy In Store", meaning they're likely due for reboxing and new instructions, etc.
I understand I'll be in the minority on this one, but I really hope that 32mm becomes standard for ork boyz "and up". Most people I know still play marines on 25mm so as long as they don't force people to rebase hundreds of boyz it's a great idea. I understand it might change how people specifically use large ork mobz (better board coverage vs more easily fit many models in CC)
Since orks are my fun army I already base my boyz on 32's and it just looks so much better. That weird stance they have simply doesn't fit on 25's.
If boyz goto 32mm, im glad i dont play tournaments. Rebasing 200+ boyz ... no thanks. I was miffed as it is rebasing my Crisis Suits because i had done some nice bases for them, i actually enjoy basing more than painting the model itself. Granted, kinda cant do anything fancy on a tiny base but its still annoying and a good chunk of change to get that many 32mms.
I'm good with boyz on 25mm bases, but 32 mm bases look nice on nobz, and they're a morksend on stormboyz. I rebased all 30 of my stormboyz to 32s, and they're even more stable than 25mm's with a nickle glued in the bottom.
Vineheart01 wrote: to be frank, its really easy to be pessimistic against ork releases because as someone mentioned several pages ago, ork players have been completely SCREWED OVER since 5th ed.
I know a lot of ork players that stated this is the final straw if GW gives them the shortstick again. You dont shaft a faction for almost 10 years and expect the fanbase to stick around. I'm tempted to do the same, but i dont care about tournament viability i just want casual games to be playable. Cant even casually play atm unless my opponent is dense to what orks do.
I've never played a single tournament i my life and Orks are bad! I played so mahy 8th edition casual games and lost 90% of them. For the first few weeks I won every game but then I realised it was because I have 90 orks because my mek armi3s failed instantly. Once the meta shifted I soon lost every game.... played 1 game vs Gullfac3man during the index phase and he smashed my Morkanaut into little peices and like 60 boyz single handedly in a few turns. XD i jist want to play a casual game where I present some kind of challenge.
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Billagio wrote: Wait the whole recall thing was a “legit” rumor? I thought it was just lolman trolling and showing how easy it is to make gak up and call it a “rumor”
No, I'm a smart troll not a chaotic one. I make witty jokes and fun posts that get people chatting but I never make crap up. This is actually a real thing I was told by a friend but, as I say, could just be his store. Maybe by me sharing the info I got someone in trouble. XD i hope not.
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Kap'n Krump wrote: I'm good with boyz on 25mm bases, but 32 mm bases look nice on nobz, and they're a morksend on stormboyz. I rebased all 30 of my stormboyz to 32s, and they're even more stable than 25mm's with a nickle glued in the bottom.
I think i sue terminator bases for nobz to make them stand out. Not sure if they're different size. But I would way prefer 25mm to stay with boyz. Just too much hassle for everyone and a really cheap and scummy way to get money from the ork tournament players (or what we have left of them). But this could just be a kill team thing...
Not to throw a wrench in the orks are bad...but I'm about 50/50 on my win/losses playing in multiple tournaments and events over the years. (Just played at adepticon and went 2-1-2) And I play dread mob basically with some buggies. [I'm not that good either]
I wouldn't call orks awful, just lacking in choices and options. Your standard build is basically boyz and stormboyz, with a few modifications here and there.
lolman1c wrote: As for the terrian. 1. Sure I can convert it but why would I want too? I don't own a table so this crap is useless to me. If it was orky or came with orky bits to convert it then maybe I would so it would go well on my shelf with my army but the majority of players don't own a table and arn't going out of their way to by more sutff to convert 1 peice of terrian.
2.I play at a GW. GW only uses official GW terrian. And I'm sick of imperial gothic ruins... Would love an orky table for once in my life.
I was going to buy the galvanic servohaulers for conversions anyway. Not to make terrain out of, but to loot to make models out of. The little tracked vehicles might make for good warbike conversions, or maybe grot tanks. The crane I was going to use to make a wrecking ball arm for a stompa. The wheels and engine for the crane could make a couple carriages and batteries for Mek Gunz.
Maybe but again, we're a small minority who would even use it. I love conversation but would much rather the kit came with a sprue that had a bunch of unique heads, gliphs and orky bitz on to kit bash our Kill team character. Just seems like they threw the closest thing they had at hand into the box.
"Derek! We got this kill team comming up, what should we put in the boxes for Orks? I mean Kill team is know for making unique wacky characters that feel personal to the play".
"Ermmm, Just throw those packs of 5 burna boyz in we laying around. Nobody buys them anyway".
"But Derek, then we'll be charging them extra for basically the same kit they can already buy with some extra peices of paper?"
"Oh... erm... is that bad? Well, I geuss we could throw those terrian crane things we got laying around from the other sets".
"Derek, you're telling me we give the players, especially Ork players, imperial Terrian when most of them play in stores and clubs anyway and we charge them extra for something they probably don't want? Dude! You're amazing! Also, Derek, I can't find the 5 burna boyz this kit only comes with 4 and a m-" Dave was never heard from again.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Seriously though, I was going to buy a bunch of kits to make new kill teams but now I'll have a bunch of over priced crap to buy so it's kind of turned me off... why would you sell a rule book and then limit the rules for those factions, cutting them off and basically selling them as DLC! This is the exsact same crap we've been trying to stop in the gaming world and it's comming over to table top again.
Like nothing screams money grab than rules that were obviously meant to go into the main rulebool but were cut off to a sheet of paper you're forced to buy with models you already own and don't want. I just want the ful ork rules please! Or any full faction rules I paid the damn rule book to see! Sucks that someone could have an advantage over me with the same army because they had the money to buy the dlc that gave them some words on a peice of paper that made their army stronger....
Actual ork terrain would be cool, but one nice thing about Imperial terrain is that it is all BS 5+ making it easy to build orky equivalents (although I guess if it was BS 4+ we would just have grots manning the guns instead of orks).
I feel dumb for not picking up a Firestorm Redoubt when I had the chance. It would have been perfect for some of my projects. Now they usually go for really high prices.
lolman1c wrote: I'm still angrybthey advertise it as 5 burna boyz when in their package they clearly show a mek!
Burna and Loota are the same kit, with an option to make a Mek with kustom mega blasta, and also a big shoota and rokkit, different from the one in the Boyz kit.
I'm surprised as an Ork player you didn't know this.
The option to have a KMB would be nice, especially in native splitfire meta, if the KMB was worth a damn to begin with. Easily the worst high AP weapon in existence, since its expensive, uses an Ork's BS, and can still cause the Ork to blow up even though a lot of other similar weapons only do it when they overcharge now. The sheer fact that they had to hit the same target is why i never bothered with them, since the target the lootas/burnas wanted the KMB did not want (range or power reasons). But since its expensive, inaccurate, and can blow up in your face, gimmie a 5th burna....
lolman1c wrote: I'm still angrybthey advertise it as 5 burna boyz when in their package they clearly show a mek!
Burna and Loota are the same kit, with an option to make a Mek with kustom mega blasta, and also a big shoota and rokkit, different from the one in the Boyz kit.
I'm surprised as an Ork player you didn't know this.
In the kit you only get 4 burna boyz and you ahve to make 1 mek! I'm surprised you don't know this seen as you called me out on it.
"This multi-part plastic boxed set contains enough components to make five models: either four Burna Boyz or four Lootas, as well as one Ork Mek armed with a kustom mega-blasta."
Trying to call me out and then trying to disgrace me as an ork player... what a low level skummy move. I know what I'm talking about or i wouldn't post it! It clearly says on the kill team advertising "5 Burna boyz, cast in coloured....." and yet their own site says the kit can only make "four Burna boyz.... as well as one Ork mek armed with a Kustom Mega-blasta".so which one is it ? Can it make 4 or 5? Huuuuh? I was alread in a bad mood today but you've put me in a worse one.
Nightlord1987 wrote: Iirc the deffguns and burnaz are on two different sprues, so this is most likely just the relevant Burnaz sprues, plus the mek sprue. No Lootaz parts.
You can see on this awesome handy sub-forum I never noticed before.
I'm fairly sure that the three sprues in the kit are actually all part of a single casting which is then cut up to fit into boxes. Casting two out of the three is probably impossible.
It's like the old computes the used to sell you 100mb memories and 200mb memories. It was the exsact same chip, you just opened up the case and flipped a switch on the motherboard to get the full 200 for half the price. It's funny but it's cheaper for companies to just hand you the full sprue rather than start hiring people to cut out the mek, etc...
In the kit you only get 4 burna boyz and you ahve to make 1 mek! I'm surprised you don't know this seen as you called me out on it.
My bad, guess I should sue GW now.
.....Got 'em?
Meh... I was a bit of a dick because of my bad mood. I'm sorry. But yeah, I just thought it'd stupid that gw doesn't know their own product... i mean it is the marketing team, they probably don't play the game. I did marketing once and had no interest in the product i was selling. XD
lolman1c wrote: Trying to call me out and then trying to disgrace me as an ork player...
He kinda has a point tho. Bit sites are full of Imperial flamers, just grab one for cheap, orkify it with a bit of card, done. Two burnas in box even have Space Marine style gloves so you don't even need to cut or convert anything, just slap it as is on ork arms and the job's done.
I mean, it's not like orks are known for re-purposing enemy gubbinz or anything, eh?
Aparntly my post was delted. I'm not ashamed of this, I'm in a bad mood so maybe my Ork swearing got a bit too close to real swearing (even though i keep it as funny and light as possible so maybe it was taken the wrong way).
But basically, I say:
Why can't we admit GW made 1 small mistake for once. Why do i and all the Ork players have to go out of their way to convert a model just so GW can end up correct? If any company misprinted that an object contained something but it actually doesn't then people would genuinely sue. I was just making light joke of it.
Aparntly my post was delted. I'm not ashamed of this, I'm in a bad mood so maybe my Ork swearing got a bit too close to real swearing (even though i keep it as funny and light as possible so maybe it was taken the wrong way).
But basically, I say:
Why can't we admit GW made 1 small mistake for once. Why do i and all the Ork players have to go out of their way to convert a model just so GW can end up correct? If any company misprinted that an object contained something but it actually doesn't then people would genuinely sue. I was just making light joke of it.
I don’t think anyone’s suggesting the kit’s not a bit daft/mildly annoying. More that it’s not worth getting hugely bent out of shape over and adding to the incessant moaning by a certain sub-section of the Ork player base.
Aparntly my post was delted. I'm not ashamed of this, I'm in a bad mood so maybe my Ork swearing got a bit too close to real swearing (even though i keep it as funny and light as possible so maybe it was taken the wrong way).
But basically, I say:
Why can't we admit GW made 1 small mistake for once. Why do i and all the Ork players have to go out of their way to convert a model just so GW can end up correct? If any company misprinted that an object contained something but it actually doesn't then people would genuinely sue. I was just making light joke of it.
I don’t think anyone’s suggesting the kit’s not a bit daft/mildly annoying. More that it’s not worth getting hugely bent out of shape over and adding to the incessant moaning by a certain sub-section of the Ork player base.
I honestly didn't care about it untill people told me i was wrong, and then when i proved I was correct they told me GW didn't make a mistake because I can convert it... -_- I brought it up again because it's funny and nobody noticed it....
Anyway, let's move on before a mod ban hammers me or something.
Anyone hear anything more about recalls or is that just my mates shop? Could be his shop had too much stock.... or could be because he's based in uk so easier to recall it. Either eay, people were saying it might show an ork name change but i highly doubt that. I don't even think gw would stoop that low.
Was just at my GW and the owner didnt know anything about the new codex, though I did notice that a number of ork boxes were on the"last chance to buy in store" area. Off the top of my head there was Grukks mob, lootas, trukk, flash gits, nobs and I think Killa Kans as well..
There were other kits from other armies too like BADC and tacticals, Ironclad Dread, SW Pack/tacticals and RW command squad.
Not sure if they were making space or what, but most of the kits were orks. Dont know if this is old news or not, I havnt been in a GW in a while.
lolman1c wrote: Why do i and all the Ork players have to go out of their way to convert a model
You know, I like contrast between KT threads. In KT one, people whine because they already set up 'can't convert' strawman, here, because of 'need to convert' one. Over the contents of literally the same box. All while knowing no rules or anything yet. Truly, GW can't please everyone, eh?
And yeah, I don't get this dumb crusade over one weapon bit. I looked at the box and Mek weapon looks so similar to flamer you can simply snip off a few extraneous gubbinz off it, presto, GW was 100% right, 5 burnas. How bored you need to be to complain over non-issue so easy to solve in dozen ways in literally 30 seconds...?
I'm excited for Kill Team, but if they are only going to do one faction focus a day that means it is going to be a couple weeks before they're through with them.
Of course, they could also start putting out previews of what is coming after Kill Team.
Mousemuffins wrote: I'm excited for orks. It's a pity the last 13 pages contain none of them.
Seriously. Why are we here?
Yeah, right now this thread is basically another "Ork wishlisting" thread, which we already have in the tactics forum as well as the suggestions forum.
I previously posted on Dakka that the new Ork Codex will include a datasheet for a Looted Wagon. This rumor was repeated by several other people, so it did spread.
The person who told me this also claimed a few other things, which included the Ork Codex being out before June 30.
When I followed up, he admitted he had not seen the final Codex and did not know specifically if the Looted Wagon was included. He said Kill Team's release affected the schedule for several other products and this made his information dated.
So... I apologize in advance if I got anyone's hopes up for no reason. Still optimistic Looted Wagons are coming back, but this is not based on some insider knowledge.
I previously posted on Dakka that the new Ork Codex will include a datasheet for a Looted Wagon. This rumor was repeated by several other people, so it did spread.
The person who told me this also claimed a few other things, which included the Ork Codex being out before June 30.
When I followed up, he admitted he had not seen the final Codex and did not know specifically if the Looted Wagon was included. He said Kill Team's release affected the schedule for several other products and this made his information dated.
So... I apologize in advance if I got anyone's hopes up for no reason. Still optimistic Looted Wagons are coming back, but this is not based on some insider knowledge.
Finally! Some juicey rumour stuff to play with!
Okay, first! We find this dude and persuade him to spill da beeenz! Then! We strap a squig to him until he tells us the truth! Then! We Waaagh across the whole of England until we get to Nottingham, the capital of the Terrian Empire! Then, figures out what the hell is going on!
So! From this point forward! We all discuss thsi rumour and this rumour only untill someone makes another one up!
Was this the same dude who msged thatdude who made the video btw?
And why would killteam mess things up? Was it rushed? Not planned? Hmmmmmmm... interesting! Now discuss!
This fits with something said on the Game Classy podcast (one of the hosts is involved in game distribution so has friends in the industry) that Killteam has been pushed up the schedule
as the AoS launch didn't do as well as was hoped in the US (not to say that it didn't do well, just that it didn't hit the heights of 40K 8th) so Kill Team gets brought forward to 'mak up' the numbers
As far as the "Last Chance to Buy" stuff is concerned, my local store has a few Idoneth items on that shelf in addition to a smattering of others, no Orks though.
They keep having to make room for new products and are generally sending the stuff back that is either part of a Start Collecting or isn't a big seller. That quite a few "core" Ork kits are being sent back (at some stores, might not be all but we'll have to wait and see) given their age could be a hint that they will get reboxed or receive new kits, though it's equally or more likely that they're just going to be online-only from now on and not be repackaged (besides going from having art to a plain white box).
I don't think expecting a big Ork range refresh is realistic but I do expect there to be a few new kits.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: This fits with something said on the Game Classy podcast (one of the hosts is involved in game distribution so has friends in the industry) that Killteam has been pushed up the schedule
as the AoS launch didn't do as well as was hoped in the US (not to say that it didn't do well, just that it didn't hit the heights of 40K 8th) so Kill Team gets brought forward to 'mak up' the numbers
This! This is exsactly what I said and predicted would happen! I told you all GW's tactics would just present a small temporary bonus to sales that wouldn't last and would son cause them to desperately try to make up for it causing them to get more stuff wrong, causing them mkre problems, causing customer distrust, causing corporate greed and more problems and resulting in a hard reset all over again!
I know this just a rumour but it makes sense and it's why I do not get why GW leaped into the new player world without bringing back and establishing a reliable income from old players that could last them 10 or 20 years. They could make millions in profits but then one year make £10 less than the year before and they'll spiral out of control in damage control as they over compensate. This would explain why Killteam feels so lacklustre. They probably had a bigger realise planned with some really cool stuff that would have made them a lot. But they blew it instead of just staying on course towards the gold. Kinda reminds me of old GW. XD
Anyway, this could do with being a thread by itself so let's discuss how this relates to the Ork? Do you think they had something orky planned (they are pushing orks in killteam a lot) but maybe due to cut backs to grab that cash they didn't get it?
Also you got a link to that podcast? And a time stamp?
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: This fits with something said on the Game Classy podcast (one of the hosts is involved in game distribution so has friends in the industry) that Killteam has been pushed up the schedule
as the AoS launch didn't do as well as was hoped in the US (not to say that it didn't do well, just that it didn't hit the heights of 40K 8th) so Kill Team gets brought forward to 'mak up' the numbers
This! This is exsactly what I said and predicted would happen! I told you all GW's tactics would just present a small temporary bonus to sales that wouldn't last and would son cause them to desperately try to make up for it causing them to get more stuff wrong, causing them mkre problems, causing customer distrust, causing corporate greed and more problems and resulting in a hard reset all over again!
I know this just a rumour but it makes sense and it's why I do not get why GW leaped into the new player world without bringing back and establishing a reliable income from old players that could last them 10 or 20 years. They could make millions in profits but then one year make £10 less than the year before and they'll spiral out of control in damage control as they over compensate. This would explain why Killteam feels so lacklustre. They probably had a bigger realise planned with some really cool stuff that would have made them a lot. But they blew it instead of just staying on course towards the gold. Kinda reminds me of old GW. XD
Anyway, this could do with being a thread by itself so let's discuss how this relates to the Ork? Do you think they had something orky planned (they are pushing orks in killteam a lot) but maybe due to cut backs to grab that cash they didn't get it?
Also you got a link to that podcast? And a time stamp?
I would be extremely surprised if GW was capable of being that reactive. Aos preorders only went up 3 weeks ago. The trailer with the release date went up just a few days after Aos launch.
It is much more likely that GW, knowing that 40k is their real money maker, prepared the Killteam launch to follow aos to counter any possible shortfall in AoS sales as it is their riskier product.
I can believe that skirmish was moved up the schedule but that decision was probably made several months ago. GW has recently shown a fairly set 3 or 4 month window for their previews. It is probable that the July date was already set when they first previewed it in March.
As for the orks the June rumour was clearly wrong. The aos core book was printed by January. Aos was clearly scheduled for a June release well in advance.
The was a rumour at the start of the year that ork would not get their codex until autumn or winter. At the time I was surprised that orks would be getting their book so late, but with AoS, Killteam and Titanicus getting big summer releases, it starts to make sense. I think we will get an ork preview at warhammer fest Europe or Nova in August and a release alongside a fairly large range of minis in September or October.
Chikout wrote: I would be extremely surprised is GW was capable of being that reactive. Aos preorders only went up 3 weeks ago. The trailer with the release date went up just a few days after Aos launch.
It is much more likely that GW, knowing that 40k is their real money maker, prepared the Killteam launch to follow aos to counter any possible shortfall in AoS sales as it is their riskier product.
I can believe that skirmish was moved up the schedule but that decision was probably made several months ago. GW has recently shown a fairly set 3 or 4 month window for their previews. It is probable that the July date was already set when they first previewed it in March.
I can confirm that this is almost always the case and anyone saying GW pushed Kill Team up because Soul Wars didn't sell as well as they hoped is more than likely talking out of their a**. I'm not saying that is a guarantee, but it is incredibly likely.
GW plan their releases months in advance, and Soul Wars only released two weeks ago. It really isn't feasible for them to just switch up their releases in that short of a time-frame based on whatever evidence they would have at this point.
As an aside, Bell of Lost Souls also cites "industry insiders" as a regular source and their rumour strike rate is absolute garbage.
Chikout wrote: I would be extremely surprised is GW was capable of being that reactive. Aos preorders only went up 3 weeks ago. The trailer with the release date went up just a few days after Aos launch.
It is much more likely that GW, knowing that 40k is their real money maker, prepared the Killteam launch to follow aos to counter any possible shortfall in AoS sales as it is their riskier product.
I can believe that skirmish was moved up the schedule but that decision was probably made several months ago. GW has recently shown a fairly set 3 or 4 month window for their previews. It is probable that the July date was already set when they first previewed it in March.
I can confirm that this is almost always the case and anyone saying GW pushed Kill Team up because Soul Wars didn't sell as well as they hoped is more than likely talking out of their a**. I'm not saying that is a guarantee, but it is incredibly likely.
GW plan their releases months in advance, and Soul Wars only released two weeks ago. It really isn't feasible for them to just switch up their releases in that short of a time-frame based on whatever evidence they would have at this point.
As an aside, Bell of Lost Souls also cites "industry insiders" as a regular source and their rumour strike rate is absolute garbage.
Haha, my comment was more of a over the top parody. But yeah, I can see this. Could be a mix of both. They could have had Kill team in development a year ago, saw how will 8th did and then moved it up knowing AoS wouldn't do as well. So this could have been done a year in the past. Someone said in that podcast they knew someone on the inside I think because they used to work for gw or something. But they also sya they're not telling us the future of 40k and stuff to keep us currently buying the products so their charts don't look like a stormy beach with huge tidle waves. XD
I don't think Kill team has moved up, we'd had the first hints of Rogue Trader and the intro Kill team video showing off the new terrain in March, so the reveal now and a release in three weeks time puts in solidly in the three month window for first look/preview/preorder.
Orks and Wolves were first announced at UK Games Expo at the beginning of June, Black Library have a new Ork audiobook and the first Beast Arises omnibus out in October. I think end of September preorder/Orktober release looks like the way things will pan out. AoS 2nd ed, then new Genestealer models following Kill Team for summer releases.
Wolves and Orks then take us up into the winter slot, at which point we'll start getting more information about Sisters. All fits quite nicely with the way we've had releases so far this year, but definitely don't hold your breath for Orks in the next few weeks.
Wasn't having a go at you just to clarify Was more poking away at that podcast and the rumour source. As Chikout said, it's definitely possible they planned for Kill Team to be released later in the year but made the change several months ago. In saying that though, given how far in advance GW ships their product to regional warehousing, if there was more to the Kill Team release that was planned to come out simultaneously with it, we'd already know about it. I don't think Kill Team being moved forward would mean anything got sacrificed if that makes sense.
I have a rumor that the guy who admitted he was wrong and that he doesnt have the final codex, and who didnt tell you that kill team affected the release schedule before his June 30 prediction is probably rumored to have some unreliable rumors in the past and therefore the word on the street is he probably shouldnt be taken very seriously henceforth until he makes a correct prediction.
TedNugent wrote: I have a rumor that the guy who admitted he was wrong and that he doesnt have the final codex, and who didnt tell you that kill team affected the release schedule before his June 30 prediction is probably rumored to have some unreliable rumors in the past and therefore the word on the street is he probably shouldnt be taken very seriously henceforth until he makes a correct prediction.
What are you even on about? The kill team being pushed back is a completely different guy. As for the guy who started this rumour thread by sending the stuff to that youtuber, do we even know who he is?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tastyfish wrote: I don't think Kill team has moved up, we'd had the first hints of Rogue Trader and the intro Kill team video showing off the new terrain in March, so the reveal now and a release in three weeks time puts in solidly in the three month window for first look/preview/preorder.
Orks and Wolves were first announced at UK Games Expo at the beginning of June, Black Library have a new Ork audiobook and the first Beast Arises omnibus out in October. I think end of September preorder/Orktober release looks like the way things will pan out. AoS 2nd ed, then new Genestealer models following Kill Team for summer releases.
Wolves and Orks then take us up into the winter slot, at which point we'll start getting more information about Sisters. All fits quite nicely with the way we've had releases so far this year, but definitely don't hold your breath for Orks in the next few weeks.
What ork audio book? Because the Beast series is an Imperial book with Orks in it.... OH SNAP! But no, seriously, is there a new one actually from an orks perspective this time?
lolman1c wrote: What ork audio book? Because the Beast series is an Imperial book with Orks in it.... OH SNAP! But no, seriously, is there a new one actually from an orks perspective this time?
THE STORY
Dumped on a nowhere world by the opening of the Cicatrix Maledictum, the Red Sunz Mek mob are struggling to survive. When a call to Waaagh! rings out across the planet, the chance at survival, as well as some shooty-fun, beckons. But all is not what it seems. Only an ork with real orky know-wots can hope to overcome the False Waaagh…!
I'll never understand GW's need for secrecy on release dates, especially for an Army that is basically the disposable NPC's with flair. If they said, Hey; we're gonna release Orks in October, I would actually start saving money and getting my models painted up to play. But because of an already eon of waiting with an army that is further slipping down the slopes; it's too late. And if the last two editions have showed us anything; the codex is gonna blow. Sure, we'll get our 'Clans' or whatever, but the only viable options will still more than likely be Hordes of boys, and the majority of my model collection will have to be dusted off so I can sell them so I can hit up the fad.
Playing Orks was quirky and fun, and they're random and cool; but it sucks being the guy that has what is basically the gimp codex. To think I invested so much money and time for a game and the company that produces takes years to make playable with their favorites is a tragedy. I don't want an OP super codex; I just want to be able to use my expensive ass
models and not be handicapped for doing so.
lolman1c wrote: What ork audio book? Because the Beast series is an Imperial book with Orks in it.... OH SNAP! But no, seriously, is there a new one actually from an orks perspective this time?
THE STORY
Dumped on a nowhere world by the opening of the Cicatrix Maledictum, the Red Sunz Mek mob are struggling to survive. When a call to Waaagh! rings out across the planet, the chance at survival, as well as some shooty-fun, beckons. But all is not what it seems. Only an ork with real orky know-wots can hope to overcome the False Waaagh…!
Written by Guy Haley
Wait... hold on there... You're tell me... we're getting an actual audio book about orks from the perspective of orks? Okay... I'm in! When was the last time we got anything from the perspective of the orks outside of the codex?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
OrkaMorka wrote: I'll never understand GW's need for secrecy on release dates, especially for an Army that is basically the disposable NPC's with flair. If they said, Hey; we're gonna release Orks in October, I would actually start saving money and getting my models painted up to play. But because of an already eon of waiting with an army that is further slipping down the slopes; it's too late. And if the last two editions have showed us anything; the codex is gonna blow. Sure, we'll get our 'Clans' or whatever, but the only viable options will still more than likely be Hordes of boys, and the majority of my model collection will have to be dusted off so I can sell them so I can hit up the fad.
Playing Orks was quirky and fun, and they're random and cool; but it sucks being the guy that has what is basically the gimp codex. To think I invested so much money and time for a game and the company that produces takes years to make playable with their favorites is a tragedy. I don't want an OP super codex; I just want to be able to use my expensive ass
models and not be handicapped for doing so.
Damn... I feel the same man but even I can't get this depressing. XD
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wait just a second
THE STORY
Dumped on a nowhere world by the opening of the Cicatrix Maledictum, the Red Sunz Mek mobare struggling to survive. When a call to Waaagh! rings out across the planet, the chance at survival, as well as some shooty-fun, beckons. But all is not what it seems. Only an ork with real orky know-wots can hope to overcome the False Waaagh…!
Who the hell are the "Red Sunz"? Never hear dof them before. Is that meant to say Evil Sunz or are the meks just calling themselves the "Red sunz"? That's a little confusing. Hahahaaa.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wait just a second
THE STORY
Dumped on a nowhere world by the opening of the Cicatrix Maledictum, the Red Sunz Mek mobare struggling to survive. When a call to Waaagh! rings out across the planet, the chance at survival, as well as some shooty-fun, beckons. But all is not what it seems. Only an ork with real orky know-wots can hope to overcome the False Waaagh…!
Who the hell are the "Red Sunz"? Never hear dof them before. Is that meant to say Evil Sunz or are the meks just calling themselves the "Red sunz"? That's a little confusing. Hahahaaa.
The Red Sunz were a bunch of Orks involved in the fighting of the Sanctus Reach campaign a few years ago, but that's all I know about them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wait just a second
THE STORY
Dumped on a nowhere world by the opening of the Cicatrix Maledictum, the Red Sunz Mek mobare struggling to survive. When a call to Waaagh! rings out across the planet, the chance at survival, as well as some shooty-fun, beckons. But all is not what it seems. Only an ork with real orky know-wots can hope to overcome the False Waaagh…!
Who the hell are the "Red Sunz"? Never hear dof them before. Is that meant to say Evil Sunz or are the meks just calling themselves the "Red sunz"? That's a little confusing. Hahahaaa.
The Red Sunz were a bunch of Orks involved in the fighting of the Sanctus Reach campaign a few years ago, but that's all I know about them.
Ahhh, thnx. I've not payed too much attention to recent lore. Mostly kept to anything before 2005 and 20010.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: This fits with something said on the Game Classy podcast (one of the hosts is involved in game distribution so has friends in the industry) that Killteam has been pushed up the schedule
as the AoS launch didn't do as well as was hoped in the US (not to say that it didn't do well, just that it didn't hit the heights of 40K 8th) so Kill Team gets brought forward to 'mak up' the numbers
This! This is exsactly what I said and predicted would happen! I told you all GW's tactics would just present a small temporary bonus to sales that wouldn't last and would son cause them to desperately try to make up for it causing them to get more stuff wrong, causing them mkre problems, causing customer distrust, causing corporate greed and more problems and resulting in a hard reset all over again!
I know this just a rumour but it makes sense and it's why I do not get why GW leaped into the new player world without bringing back and establishing a reliable income from old players that could last them 10 or 20 years. They could make millions in profits but then one year make £10 less than the year before and they'll spiral out of control in damage control as they over compensate. This would explain why Killteam feels so lacklustre. They probably had a bigger realise planned with some really cool stuff that would have made them a lot. But they blew it instead of just staying on course towards the gold. Kinda reminds me of old GW. XD
Anyway, this could do with being a thread by itself so let's discuss how this relates to the Ork? Do you think they had something orky planned (they are pushing orks in killteam a lot) but maybe due to cut backs to grab that cash they didn't get it?
Also you got a link to that podcast? And a time stamp?
These are interesting questions but I sense sarcasm. Feels like we're trying to generate conversation about the lack of rumors since there are no rumors to discuss.
Just to be clear, I'm no rumor machine and have no special insights into what's coming out other than about Orks, and it's poor insight at best. There's a huge cache of Orks sitting in my closet, I moan to people about the sorry state of their rules and occasionally a few people moan back.
From what I understand, the new Ork Codex was written thoughtfully and addresses common frustrations that existed with them from 6th and 7th edition. Note, that doesn't say 8th edition, the Codex was written some time ago, around the same time the Grey Knights Codex was written. It's been waiting for a release slot, so I'm expecting something that will require heavy FAQing once it's actually out.
The release schedule is what it is, GW is a publicly traded company and so needs predictable sales figures to satisfy investors. This schedule is not written in stone, nor is it fluid. There are a lot of considerations that go into decisions about when a product will be released. One of the big ones is exploring the market for specialist games, continued company growth depends on finding new audiences. Growth in this area, over time, is what their Board and Directors expect.
Killteam is not the only specialist game that came out this last year and that's made it hard on people waiting on Codexes. The question isn't what will generate the most revenue, it's what will generate the right amount of revenue - and can it be sustained. For GW, the answer to this question keeps evolving.
This point is especially important to understand when it comes to Orks and why the Codex has been pushed back to last. GW knows (don't ask me how) there are already a large number of 40k players with Ork armies they never use. While a Codex would certainly sell a lot of copies, does that translate into model sales and will that continue over time? What happens with the second-hand market for Orks, especially considering the fact there is zero uniformity in how the models are painted? Will new model releases compete with the existing line, or is there a way to find a balance? What about things like Looted Tanks, which cannibalize kits from other armies - what are the lawyers going to say about the lack of an official model?
Thinking about my own experiences here. The 6th edition Ork Codex was met terribly with a lot of people leaving the game. Players had just had enough and were dumping their armies and moving on. I was buying $2,000 worth of Orks for $200 - $300 at a time - painted armies, NIB models, OOP metal ones, etc. And this was not an unusual experience, I was quoting sellers prices from eBay and asking them what made their army so special I would want to pay a premium. Now I'm feeling it too, these things have been sitting around for years and I have other armies that perform well on the tabletop. Either we're going to get good rules or I'm going to sell them all. Even if we get good rules, I'm still selling most of them because no one needs that many Orks.
GW is not ignorant of the second-hand market for Orks or what will happen once the Codex comes out. They already had bad releases that eroded the player base while diminishing the perceived value of an iconic and beloved 40k race. While specialist games certainly had a role in delays, that's not the reason it's taken so long to reach this point.
The reason is Orks are a huge, massive headache for GW. They know player expectations are high and there will be a lot of negativity no matter what they do. They know many players already have complete Ork armies and that initial sales will be tepid. They know the second-hand market will undermine whatever marketing they put into the release (not to mention that negativity I mentioned.) They have problems with older units, like Looted Tanks, that lack an official model but are important to the game. They also know about the mechanical issues with Index Orks and the ways they have to solve them might not be workable (unlike Imperial armies, Orks can't just take a Guard detachment to fill holes.)
Despite these challenges, GW is still releasing a Codex. My understanding is game designers put some work into it. Players should expect a good one, albeit one that will require some FAQs before it gets anything close to being 'balanced.' One tidbit I heard was that Orks were playtested more than most other armies combined (but this would have to have been against Index armies, if what I've heard about the date it was authored is true.)
And yes, I've heard new models are being produced, but not much more than that. And no, you should not expect them to come out at the same time as the Codex. GW will wait to see what happens with other sales before new Ork models get a slot in the release schedule.
But I don't think all this amounts to a cash grab on the part of GW. It's easier to release a specialist game than sail directly into the headwinds of Hurricane Gork, and following the path of least resistance is what they've done. You can't blame them for that. My impression, based on conversations with numerous people, is success for the Ork releases means "no one quits the game in response" and "people are still buying Ork stuff from us 3 months out."
Smellingsalts wrote: Just wondering, was something published that said the AOS release did poorly. In my shop it went really well.
No, they said it did well but the preorders weren't what they were expecting and because the stock holders only look at numbers and not reviews this messes the whole system as people see lower numbers and pull out. Stuff like that.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: This fits with something said on the Game Classy podcast (one of the hosts is involved in game distribution so has friends in the industry) that Killteam has been pushed up the schedule
as the AoS launch didn't do as well as was hoped in the US (not to say that it didn't do well, just that it didn't hit the heights of 40K 8th) so Kill Team gets brought forward to 'mak up' the numbers
This! This is exsactly what I said and predicted would happen! I told you all GW's tactics would just present a small temporary bonus to sales that wouldn't last and would son cause them to desperately try to make up for it causing them to get more stuff wrong, causing them mkre problems, causing customer distrust, causing corporate greed and more problems and resulting in a hard reset all over again!
I know this just a rumour but it makes sense and it's why I do not get why GW leaped into the new player world without bringing back and establishing a reliable income from old players that could last them 10 or 20 years. They could make millions in profits but then one year make £10 less than the year before and they'll spiral out of control in damage control as they over compensate. This would explain why Killteam feels so lacklustre. They probably had a bigger realise planned with some really cool stuff that would have made them a lot. But they blew it instead of just staying on course towards the gold. Kinda reminds me of old GW. XD
Anyway, this could do with being a thread by itself so let's discuss how this relates to the Ork? Do you think they had something orky planned (they are pushing orks in killteam a lot) but maybe due to cut backs to grab that cash they didn't get it?
Also you got a link to that podcast? And a time stamp?
These are interesting questions but I sense sarcasm. Feels like we're trying to generate conversation about the lack of rumors since there are no rumors to discuss.
Just to be clear, I'm no rumor machine and have no special insights into what's coming out other than about Orks, and it's poor insight at best. There's a huge cache of Orks sitting in my closet, I moan to people about the sorry state of their rules and occasionally a few people moan back.
From what I understand, the new Ork Codex was written thoughtfully and addresses common frustrations that existed with them from 6th and 7th edition. Note, that doesn't say 8th edition, the Codex was written some time ago, around the same time the Grey Knights Codex was written. It's been waiting for a release slot, so I'm expecting something that will require heavy FAQing once it's actually out.
The release schedule is what it is, GW is a publicly traded company and so needs predictable sales figures to satisfy investors. This schedule is not written in stone, nor is it fluid. There are a lot of considerations that go into decisions about when a product will be released. One of the big ones is exploring the market for specialist games, continued company growth depends on finding new audiences. Growth in this area, over time, is what their Board and Directors expect.
Killteam is not the only specialist game that came out this last year and that's made it hard on people waiting on Codexes. The question isn't what will generate the most revenue, it's what will generate the right amount of revenue - and can it be sustained. For GW, the answer to this question keeps evolving.
This point is especially important to understand when it comes to Orks and why the Codex has been pushed back to last. GW knows (don't ask me how) there are already a large number of 40k players with Ork armies they never use. While a Codex would certainly sell a lot of copies, does that translate into model sales and will that continue over time? What happens with the second-hand market for Orks, especially considering the fact there is zero uniformity in how the models are painted? Will new model releases compete with the existing line, or is there a way to find a balance? What about things like Looted Tanks, which cannibalize kits from other armies - what are the lawyers going to say about the lack of an official model?
Thinking about my own experiences here. The 6th edition Ork Codex was met terribly with a lot of people leaving the game. Players had just had enough and were dumping their armies and moving on. I was buying $2,000 worth of Orks for $200 - $300 at a time - painted armies, NIB models, OOP metal ones, etc. And this was not an unusual experience, I was quoting sellers prices from eBay and asking them what made their army so special I would want to pay a premium. Now I'm feeling it too, these things have been sitting around for years and I have other armies that perform well on the tabletop. Either we're going to get good rules or I'm going to sell them all. Even if we get good rules, I'm still selling most of them because no one needs that many Orks.
GW is not ignorant of the second-hand market for Orks or what will happen once the Codex comes out. They already had bad releases that eroded the player base while diminishing the perceived value of an iconic and beloved 40k race. While specialist games certainly had a role in delays, that's not the reason it's taken so long to reach this point.
The reason is Orks are a huge, massive headache for GW. They know player expectations are high and there will be a lot of negativity no matter what they do. They know many players already have complete Ork armies and that initial sales will be tepid. They know the second-hand market will undermine whatever marketing they put into the release (not to mention that negativity I mentioned.) They have problems with older units, like Looted Tanks, that lack an official model but are important to the game. They also know about the mechanical issues with Index Orks and the ways they have to solve them might not be workable (unlike Imperial armies, Orks can't just take a Guard detachment to fill holes.)
Despite these challenges, GW is still releasing a Codex. My understanding is game designers put some work into it. Players should expect a good one, albeit one that will require some FAQs before it gets anything close to being 'balanced.' One tidbit I heard was that Orks were playtested more than most other armies combined (but this would have to have been against Index armies, if what I've heard about the date it was authored is true.)
And yes, I've heard new models are being produced, but not much more than that. And no, you should not expect them to come out at the same time as the Codex. GW will wait to see what happens with other sales before new Ork models get a slot in the release schedule.
But I don't think all this amounts to a cash grab on the part of GW. It's easier to release a specialist game than sail directly into the headwinds of Hurricane Gork, and following the path of least resistance is what they've done. You can't blame them for that. My impression, based on conversations with numerous people, is success for the Ork releases means "no one quits the game in response" and "people are still buying Ork stuff from us 3 months out."
Which kind of makes sense, all things considered.
@ tech, read my later comments. Yes it's mainly parody. But where are you getting this info because if the ork codex was written at the start but didn't come out at the end then we're both screwed and pissed! Because thisnis exsactly the same issue we had in the last 2 editions. Our codex was made when they didn't understand the game and it screwed us all over massively.
Some things I will say about this if it is true:
Replacing old models will increase sales... buggies, kopptas, warbosses. All would make the 2nd hand market useless.
Not bringing out models along side the codex and waiting is sucide. No models is going to make a huge backlash and cause worse sales.
Writing the codex that early is also sucide. People will read initial reviews and not give a squig about the FAQs even if the FAQs turned the worse army into the best.
Seriously, all of this is crap in my mind. My partner sat next to me who does business also agres. They're putting it all on chance for something they would have set up to fail. "I'll invest more into the children's orphanage if it survives the week". "BUT SIR! You made the orphanage out of paper!"
Smellingsalts wrote: Just wondering, was something published that said the AOS release did poorly. In my shop it went really well.
No, they said it did well but the preorders weren't what they were expecting *snip*
eh, he asked you to backup what you said originaly, not add another unsubstatiated claim to the pile
I miss read what he said and I was also correcting him. I'm not saying I believe the guy in the podcast, my comment itself was a parody. I was more focused on reading the comment after so I did a quick read and reply so I could get to that comment and now we've waste dveen more space uust discussing this and now we're going to get more people complaining that will wadte vene more space wnd then we'll get people complaing about the people complaining about the people.... you get me.
I'm tired.
I'm tired of waiting
I'm tired of no official gw teases
I'm tired of fealing like I have to ask for a boon of points at the local store just to play dreadmob
I was tired when they anounced the Ork codex,
I was extra tired when they zoggin leaked more gsc minis when their codex is after ours
I was tired when they anounced kill team like its the thing everyone has been pineing for
I'm just tired
The only cathartic thing for me is going to these Ork threads. I don't care if its unsubstantial rumors, I don't care if its wishlisting, I dont care if its just complaints, cause im right there with u, and im glad I'm not the only one tired with this grot sh#t.
That's just the artwork for the Beast Arises book series they did a year ago or so. Though given the fact that AoBR has been gone for a while and we're still stuck with a resin warboss, a plastic one wouldn't be out of order.
geargutz wrote: I'm tired.
I'm tired of waiting
I'm tired of no official gw teases
I'm tired of fealing like I have to ask for a boon of points at the local store just to play dreadmob
I was tired when they anounced the Ork codex,
I was extra tired when they zoggin leaked more gsc minis when their codex is after ours
I was tired when they anounced kill team like its the thing everyone has been pineing for
I'm just tired
The only cathartic thing for me is going to these Ork threads. I don't care if its unsubstantial rumors, I don't care if its wishlisting, I dont care if its just complaints, cause im right there with u, and im glad I'm not the only one tired with this grot sh#t.
Sounds like you need to go to bed......
Im excited to see what the new dex will bring and what , if any, new models will come alongside it or later on.
It'll be good to see Klan stuff with certain bonuses and stratagems as well as artefacts. I hope we will see more vehicles in particular
techsoldaten wrote: Thinking about my own experiences here. The 6th edition Ork Codex was met terribly with a lot of people leaving the game. Players had just had enough and were dumping their armies and moving on. I was buying $2,000 worth of Orks for $200 - $300 at a time - painted armies, NIB models, OOP metal ones, etc. And this was not an unusual experience, I was quoting sellers prices from eBay and asking them what made their army so special I would want to pay a premium. Now I'm feeling it too, these things have been sitting around for years and I have other armies that perform well on the tabletop. Either we're going to get good rules or I'm going to sell them all. Even if we get good rules, I'm still selling most of them because no one needs that many Orks.
I guess if it turns out the codex is bad, I at least get to pick up a lot of cheap models. Since I build and paint more than I play and when I do play it is often against orks, it might even be better for me if they are horribly underpowered.
techsoldaten wrote: Thinking about my own experiences here. The 6th edition Ork Codex was met terribly with a lot of people leaving the game. Players had just had enough and were dumping their armies and moving on. I was buying $2,000 worth of Orks for $200 - $300 at a time - painted armies, NIB models, OOP metal ones, etc. And this was not an unusual experience, I was quoting sellers prices from eBay and asking them what made their army so special I would want to pay a premium. Now I'm feeling it too, these things have been sitting around for years and I have other armies that perform well on the tabletop. Either we're going to get good rules or I'm going to sell them all. Even if we get good rules, I'm still selling most of them because no one needs that many Orks.
I guess if it turns out the codex is bad, I at least get to pick up a lot of cheap models. Since I build and paint more than I play and when I do play it is often against orks, it might even be better for me if they are horribly underpowered.
They did say at the UK Games Expo that they are aware that Orks have been struggling for a while across a bunch of editions. Was more of a focus of the announcement than "Klans are back!", much more "Orks WILL be good"
We will see... but not expecting much. As an ork player I know I feel like it's crazy not bring anything out but I'm sure the DE and Tau, etc... all feel the same. We're unlikely to get anything as mentioned above because sales probably did drastically drop in 6th and 7th. It's thecage old "we screwed up... well we're now losing money... ermmm... let's just abandon it" company kinda mentality tgat I wouldn't be surprised if gw had.
But the again, I could be wrong.
As for that art, the ork doesn't even have eyes! I meam come on! It just looks like a mindless monsters but that's the great thing about okrs. Everyone thinks it's a mindless monster but actually it's an insane tactical commander inside with experience built right into his DNA!
Dumped on a nowhere world by the opening of the Cicatrix Maledictum, the Red Sunz Mek mob battle to survive.
LISTEN TOIT BECAUSE
Waaagh! Guy Haley returns to tell a new tale of the greenskins, and it's as action-packed and insane as you'd expect.
Add to wishlist
THE STORY
Dumped on a nowhere world by the opening of the Cicatrix Maledictum, the Red Sunz Mek mob are struggling to survive. When a call to Waaagh! rings out across the planet, the chance at survival, as well as some shooty-fun, beckons. But all is not what it seems. Only an ork with real orky know-wots can hope to overcome the False Waaagh…!
Written by Guy Haley
CONTENTS
The End of Daze
Bozgat's Big Adventure
The Waaagh! Faker
This title will be available to order from the 20th October as a CD and MP3
I think we should discuss that big comment more by tech. He clearly thinks or is saying he knows someone on the inside. Also, it's the only lead we got. Who belives him, who doesn't and why?
geargutz wrote: I'm tired.
I'm tired of waiting
I'm tired of no official gw teases
I'm tired of fealing like I have to ask for a boon of points at the local store just to play dreadmob
I was tired when they anounced the Ork codex,
I was extra tired when they zoggin leaked more gsc minis when their codex is after ours
I was tired when they anounced kill team like its the thing everyone has been pineing for
I'm just tired
The only cathartic thing for me is going to these Ork threads. I don't care if its unsubstantial rumors, I don't care if its wishlisting, I dont care if its just complaints, cause im right there with u, and im glad I'm not the only one tired with this grot sh#t.
This. This is exactly where I'm at too.
From a cursory glance at the Ork groups on Facebook that's where the majority of the Ork player base is at. What is happening now looks a lot like history repeating itself and many Ork players have had enough of feeling like the poor relations. The general mood of Ork players seems to be shifting from happy optimism to bitter pessimism and ironically the cause is the actions of GW.
Announcing the Ork codex then doing nothing for months was a huge misstep.
Focussing on Killteam now is a misstep.
Leaving the Ork codex till practically last and releasing new or far less popular factions before it was a misstep.
Showing new GSC models without any new Ork models is another, huge misstep.
There's only so much a player base can take before they pack up and ether sell their stuff for another faction or leave the hobby altogether. That's the general sentiment I'm picking up from the Ork community and worryingly GW are doing nothing to help fix it.
Mousemuffins wrote: So we should discuss the post of a guy who states fairly categorically that he screwed up and fact has nothing to offer?
Hell. I know people on the "inside".
They're saying nothing.
Just like this painful farce of a thread.
then let us discuss that rather than complaining about me wanting to discuss anything rumour related. Why is Techs rumour all erong? Give examples of how it is wrong. Or why you believe it is wrong.
For example, I think it is wrong as it's silly to leave it until last if you already wrote it. Or that Space Marines got a new set of shoulder pads every weeks to its stupid to think GW belive there are too many orks, or that there are no holes in the 8rk army, the holes were made by nerfing and over pointing units so that can easily be fixed with new rules, or why is gw waiting to see how the codex does before they make the models? The cost is primarily in design and molds so if that's already done then it would be stupid to not bring them out if the codex doesn't do so well, and the codex won't do as well if no new models are added... there is more! Orks are a 30 year old faction but they're still selling showing that there is money to be made, plenty of factions sell second hand, in fact more than orks (I can start a primaris army for less than £100 because of ebay dark Imperium)!
Sooooooo instead of simple making people complain at us that this thread is a waste ofmspace how about you actually present some evidence when calling someone out like I just did. Yes, I belive his rumour is false but I went into detail on why.
geargutz wrote: I'm tired.
I'm tired of waiting
I'm tired of no official gw teases
I'm tired of fealing like I have to ask for a boon of points at the local store just to play dreadmob
I was tired when they anounced the Ork codex,
I was extra tired when they zoggin leaked more gsc minis when their codex is after ours
I was tired when they anounced kill team like its the thing everyone has been pineing for
I'm just tired
The only cathartic thing for me is going to these Ork threads. I don't care if its unsubstantial rumors, I don't care if its wishlisting, I dont care if its just complaints, cause im right there with u, and im glad I'm not the only one tired with this grot sh#t.
This. This is exactly where I'm at too.
From a cursory glance at the Ork groups on Facebook that's where the majority of the Ork player base is at. What is happening now looks a lot like history repeating itself and many Ork players have had enough of feeling like the poor relations. The general mood of Ork players seems to be shifting from happy optimism to bitter pessimism and ironically the cause is the actions of GW.
Announcing the Ork codex then doing nothing for months was a huge misstep.
Focussing on Killteam now is a misstep.
Leaving the Ork codex till practically last and releasing new or far less popular factions before it was a misstep.
Showing new GSC models without any new Ork models is another, huge misstep.
There's only so much a player base can take before they pack up and ether sell their stuff for another faction or leave the hobby altogether. That's the general sentiment I'm picking up from the Ork community and worryingly GW are doing nothing to help fix it.
OHH NOO! HAVING TO WAIT A FEW MONTHS FOR YOUR CODEX! WHATEVER SHALL YOU DO! compared to where this game was when I started playing, a 4 or 5 month wait for a codex really isn't that long. it wasn't that long ago guys that unless you where a space marine, chances are you had to wait 2 editions for a codex. even in 7th, not everyone got a 7th edition codex.
geargutz wrote: I'm tired.
I'm tired of waiting
I'm tired of no official gw teases
I'm tired of fealing like I have to ask for a boon of points at the local store just to play dreadmob
I was tired when they anounced the Ork codex,
I was extra tired when they zoggin leaked more gsc minis when their codex is after ours
I was tired when they anounced kill team like its the thing everyone has been pineing for
I'm just tired
The only cathartic thing for me is going to these Ork threads. I don't care if its unsubstantial rumors, I don't care if its wishlisting, I dont care if its just complaints, cause im right there with u, and im glad I'm not the only one tired with this grot sh#t.
This. This is exactly where I'm at too.
From a cursory glance at the Ork groups on Facebook that's where the majority of the Ork player base is at. What is happening now looks a lot like history repeating itself and many Ork players have had enough of feeling like the poor relations. The general mood of Ork players seems to be shifting from happy optimism to bitter pessimism and ironically the cause is the actions of GW.
Announcing the Ork codex then doing nothing for months was a huge misstep.
Focussing on Killteam now is a misstep.
Leaving the Ork codex till practically last and releasing new or far less popular factions before it was a misstep.
Showing new GSC models without any new Ork models is another, huge misstep.
There's only so much a player base can take before they pack up and ether sell their stuff for another faction or leave the hobby altogether. That's the general sentiment I'm picking up from the Ork community and worryingly GW are doing nothing to help fix it.
OHH NOO! HAVING TO WAIT A FEW MONTHS FOR YOUR CODEX! WHATEVER SHALL YOU DO! compared to where this game was when I started playing, a 4 or 5 month wait for a codex really isn't that long. it wasn't that long ago guys that unless you where a space marine, chances are you had to wait 2 editions for a codex. even in 7th, not everyone got a 7th edition codex.
I think he was talking about waiting since the end of 4th edition for THE ork codex rather than the false prophets we got in between. The text implies that Ork player shave waited this long and then had to wait even longer. Like being atraved then offered food only for the person who offered it to go in the kitchen and never come back.
I was lucky. I was borne into the bad Ork codecies so I never new how good 4th or supposedly 5th was. I just know bad stuff so anything at all that doesn't seem like 7th will probably be okay to me.
Mousemuffins wrote: So we should discuss the post of a guy who states fairly categorically that he screwed up and fact has nothing to offer?
Hell. I know people on the "inside".
They're saying nothing.
Just like this painful farce of a thread.
then let us discuss that rather than complaining about me wanting to discuss anything rumour related. Why is Techs rumour all erong? Give examples of how it is wrong. Or why you believe it is wrong.
For example, I think it is wrong as it's silly to leave it until last if you already wrote it. Or that Space Marines got a new set of shoulder pads every weeks to its stupid to think GW belive there are too many orks, or that there are no holes in the 8rk army, the holes were made by nerfing and over pointing units so that can easily be fixed with new rules, or why is gw waiting to see how the codex does before they make the models? The cost is primarily in design and molds so if that's already done then it would be stupid to not bring them out if the codex doesn't do so well, and the codex won't do as well if no new models are added... there is more! Orks are a 30 year old faction but they're still selling showing that there is money to be made, plenty of factions sell second hand, in fact more than orks (I can start a primaris army for less than £100 because of ebay dark Imperium)!
Sooooooo instead of simple making people complain at us that this thread is a waste ofmspace how about you actually present some evidence when calling someone out like I just did. Yes, I belive his rumour is false but I went into detail on why.
Nope.
I'm out.
Wake me when there's some actual stuff worth discussing.
Keeping an eye out for the ork faction focus for killteam today. Based on the other faction focuses, it may have some minor tips about the upcoming release, but will primarily focus on killteam command abilities.
BrianDavion wrote: OHH NOO! HAVING TO WAIT A FEW MONTHS FOR YOUR CODEX! WHATEVER SHALL YOU DO! compared to where this game was when I started playing, a 4 or 5 month wait for a codex really isn't that long. it wasn't that long ago guys that unless you where a space marine, chances are you had to wait 2 editions for a codex. even in 7th, not everyone got a 7th edition codex.
Mods, how is this post still up? It clearly violates rule 1?
Brian - just because something was EVEN WORSE before, it doesn't mean that we should be happy with something not as bad now. As JR said - even certain mini factions have had releases before Orks, a major race. It's yet another slap in the face of Ork players.
BrianDavion wrote: OHH NOO! HAVING TO WAIT A FEW MONTHS FOR YOUR CODEX! WHATEVER SHALL YOU DO! compared to where this game was when I started playing, a 4 or 5 month wait for a codex really isn't that long. it wasn't that long ago guys that unless you where a space marine, chances are you had to wait 2 editions for a codex. even in 7th, not everyone got a 7th edition codex.
Mods, how is this post still up? It clearly violates rule 1?
Brian - just because something was EVEN WORSE before, it doesn't mean that we should be happy with something not as bad now. As JR said - even certain mini factions have had releases before Orks, a major race. It's yet another slap in the face of Ork players.
Not to mention, the game has seen the INTRODUCTION of two new factions while orks were waiting for their codex.
The lack of nobz in KT is disappointing, but hopefully you will be able to take unit upgrade characters like sergeants, alphas, nobz, spanners, etc. with the full choice of gear. The mention of the kommando nob at the end certainly implies you can.
Don't think there's much in the KT focus which really translates into 40k. Grot shields are fun, but more a call-back to old rules than a hint at new ones, I think.
Hmmm... i'm actually not sad about this article. It sounds pretty solid and mentioned the Gretchin Revolutionary Committee so I'm pretty happy gW even still remembers that (Gorkamorka hint?)
But I'm still confused on the burna boyz stuff. Like 1 is a nek but a mek isn't an option so will 1 be upgraded to a mek if you take full burnas? Is it like if you take full boyz you get a single nobz.. that's what the ladt part suggested. But if you can't mix then how do you get gretchins? Interesting.
The stratagems are cool and fluffy. Firing again for 1cp is nothing to scoff at but I just love that gretchin one based purely on fluffy rpg reasons alone. I love the idea of making a grot character you get really invested in but then you have a Boy who's about to get a bolter to the face so he picks up the hero grot and just uses him as a Shield and because he thinks it works it does. Haha... oh... this might be fun.
the grot strategem i think we can almost entirely assume will get translated to a full 40k version that where when an enemy declares shooting you can resolve it against the grots. Orks used to have this rule back in 3rd or 4th I can't really remember, just remember trying to kill orks at the time and only ever killed a crap ton of grots.
Grots granted a 5+ cover save to orks, and for each passed save a grot died. It was nice because the enemy still rolled to wound vs the Orks' toughness, then killed a grot.
Okay, so the kill team faction focus for orks has next to no faction information aside from a couple of kill team strategems.
Total meh.
Wake me up when they have a preview for the new audiobook, or better yet a codex preview please.
As JR said - even certain mini factions have had releases before Orks, a major race. It's yet another slap in the face of Ork players.
To be honest, this is what annoys me more than anything else.
They've created what seems like well over a half dozen sub factions.
Lotd, GSC, harlq, deathwatch, knights, skitarii just off the top of my head. I'll grant that skit and knights are at least developed and got a correspondingly awesome model range, but the stuff they are releasing for GSC in particular blows my mind.
A teaser is in order. something. Just something. Anything. A shot of an elbow on a new model. Even the Kill team focus was all old units and it has zero specifics. A flash at a new release unit and a teaser description similar to the GSC article would be huge.
lord_blackfang wrote: Grots granted a 5+ cover save to orks, and for each passed save a grot died. It was nice because the enemy still rolled to wound vs the Orks' toughness, then killed a grot.
I wonder how that would work in 8e with multi-damage weapons. If it is still a cover save, then would 1 grot eat the shot of a volcano canon? Not complaining, but that would be silly.
I would think it would work like FNP, but only reducing 1 point of damage. If so it would be practically useless.
lord_blackfang wrote: Grots granted a 5+ cover save to orks, and for each passed save a grot died. It was nice because the enemy still rolled to wound vs the Orks' toughness, then killed a grot.
I wonder how that would work in 8e with multi-damage weapons. If it is still a cover save, then would 1 grot eat the shot of a volcano canon? Not complaining, but that would be silly.
I would think it would work like FNP, but only reducing 1 point of damage. If so it would be practically useless.
You wouldn't worry about any damage that didn't specify it spills over. So one save vs a D6 damage would just kill a single grot. The major downside would seem to be double the units needing Morale.
You might even be able to stack FNP on the grot shield and the unit behind it for extra protection. But it's about the sequence of events. Damage doesn't matter until a save is failed.
So, used to be on a 5+ the grot took the hit and made any needed save, if it could, or died. realistically the grots, using this rule, wouldn't stop that much. But it could be good.
Also, if I recall boys could just charge right over grot mobs as if they weren't there. I'd like that to come back.
BrianDavion wrote: OHH NOO! HAVING TO WAIT A FEW MONTHS FOR YOUR CODEX! WHATEVER SHALL YOU DO! compared to where this game was when I started playing, a 4 or 5 month wait for a codex really isn't that long. it wasn't that long ago guys that unless you where a space marine, chances are you had to wait 2 editions for a codex. even in 7th, not everyone got a 7th edition codex.
Mods, how is this post still up? It clearly violates rule 1?
Brian - just because something was EVEN WORSE before, it doesn't mean that we should be happy with something not as bad now. As JR said - even certain mini factions have had releases before Orks, a major race. It's yet another slap in the face of Ork players.
Not to mention, the game has seen the INTRODUCTION of two new factions while orks were waiting for their codex.
Here's something to consider, Orks and Space Wolves are going to be the first 40k codexes released in their fisical year, that does add some weight to the idea that they'll be something special. This is proably why space wolves and Orks have been waiting, GW needs something big to be their "anchors" for 40k in the new year
lord_blackfang wrote: Grots granted a 5+ cover save to orks, and for each passed save a grot died. It was nice because the enemy still rolled to wound vs the Orks' toughness, then killed a grot.
I wonder how that would work in 8e with multi-damage weapons. If it is still a cover save, then would 1 grot eat the shot of a volcano canon? Not complaining, but that would be silly.
I would think it would work like FNP, but only reducing 1 point of damage. If so it would be practically useless.
thats how damage works now. why would it be different just because the grot takes the wound? damage from a shot doesn't spill over so the passed save would wound the grot instead of the ork. Grots didn't have saves so it would just be a dead grot.
Great to see they based the burnas on 32mm bases finally! They look much more balanced and not top heavy.
This worries me a lot, i have over 250 orks painted and cant possibly rebase all of them. What happens if i want to add to my lootas or burnas in the future? I cant mix bases in a unit as it will loon really daft.
Billagio wrote: It also implies there will not be a new kommandos kit
Kill Team goes up for preorder on the 21st. I would imagine any new Kommando kit would come with the Ork book proper.
I think we can safely assume that we'll be getting no new Burnas/Lootas, Kommandos, Boyz and Grots.
Hopefully there's other things with the dex.
Burnas/Lootas are a new kit. Grots are a new kit. Boyz might get a refresh ala the Fire Warriors.
I wouldn't assume anything to be honest.
New kit?
I'm pretty sure the gretchin and burna/loota kits are just as old as the boyz kit - even if the boyz kit is older, all three kits are at least ten years old, since they have been around since the 4th edition codex.
Great to see they based the burnas on 32mm bases finally! They look much more balanced and not top heavy.
This worries me a lot, i have over 250 orks painted and cant possibly rebase all of them. What happens if i want to add to my lootas or burnas in the future? I cant mix bases in a unit as it will loon really daft.
Thats my concern as well. Have IG/Nids/Other horde armies that rely on lots of small infantry had larger bases as part of their codex release? Its an even bigger problem when you consider most peoples (mine included) boyz collection consists of AOBR boyz with those little slots on their base.
Great to see they based the burnas on 32mm bases finally! They look much more balanced and not top heavy.
This worries me a lot, i have over 250 orks painted and cant possibly rebase all of them. What happens if i want to add to my lootas or burnas in the future? I cant mix bases in a unit as it will loon really daft.
Thats my concern as well. Have IG/Nids/Other horde armies that rely on lots of small infantry had larger bases as part of their codex release?
If anything it'll only be for lootas, burnaz, nobz, tankbustas, etc. Basically the specialists. Boyz will likely remain on small bases since they fit nicely. Otherwise I can look forward to a nice night of nothing but bases.
Great to see they based the burnas on 32mm bases finally! They look much more balanced and not top heavy.
This worries me a lot, i have over 250 orks painted and cant possibly rebase all of them. What happens if i want to add to my lootas or burnas in the future? I cant mix bases in a unit as it will loon really daft.
Thats my concern as well. Have IG/Nids/Other horde armies that rely on lots of small infantry had larger bases as part of their codex release?
If anything it'll only be for lootas, burnaz, nobz, tankbustas, etc. Basically the specialists. Boyz will likely remain on small bases since they fit nicely. Otherwise I can look forward to a nice night of nothing but bases.
That would be fine with me. I edited my original post but I mentioned that a lot of people have AOBR boyz with those little slots in their bases so that would make re-basing even more of a pain in the ass if it applied to boyz as well.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Or just add those base edge extenders various companies made when people first started panicing when Marine base sizes when up
I had no idea those were a product. You'll be a lifesaver if we go to bigger bases.
Great to see they based the burnas on 32mm bases finally! They look much more balanced and not top heavy.
This worries me a lot, i have over 250 orks painted and cant possibly rebase all of them. What happens if i want to add to my lootas or burnas in the future? I cant mix bases in a unit as it will loon really daft.
You just glue your bases to the larger ones. Eventually you will have awesome pyramid orks
OHH NOO! HAVING TO WAIT A FEW MONTHS FOR YOUR CODEX! WHATEVER SHALL YOU DO! compared to where this game was when I started playing, a 4 or 5 month wait for a codex really isn't that long. it wasn't that long ago guys that unless you where a space marine, chances are you had to wait 2 editions for a codex. even in 7th, not everyone got a 7th edition codex.
Orkz went from 4th edition all the way until 7th edition to get a codex. We didn't have a codex for 2 full editions and to repay us we got arguably THE WORST codex in 7th. We then got 2 WAAAAGH supplements and a new flyer to try and save our faction in 7th....they were all crap. So finally 8th comes around and we pray that we will get a fair shake and have a chance to field our favorite units again....nope, its either take boyz or don't try to play competitive.
as for waiting a few months? 8th edition dropped June 3rd 2017. Now I may be an ork player but I think that is a bit more then "A few months".
Basically, your average veteran ork player has been waiting since about 2008 for a good codex. So try to calm down a bit and have fun with this.
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TedNugent wrote: Gotta say I'm not seeing the appeal of Burna boys in kill team with index rules.
Garbage shooting and essentially the same output as a slugga boy in close combat.
Their shooting is even mediocre when mated with a transport for protection. For their PPM cost, a 6+ save is truly trash.
Even lootas as the promo kit make no sense since it only has 4 lootas. What good is the mek at BS2?
Math hammer wise a Burna boy is significantly WORSE then a regular shoota boy. For the price of 3 Burna boyz you can field 7 Shoota Boyz. 3 Burna boyz will get 6 auto hits on average for 1 unsaved wound vs Space Marines. 7 Shoota boyz will get about 5 hits and 2.5 wounds for just shy of 1 Dead Space Marine a turn. Of course those Shoota boyz also have DOUBLE the range of Burna boyz. Durability wise...3 T4 wounds with a 6+ Vs 7 T4 wounds with a 6+...not rocket science on that one. Then, when they finally get into CC? Burna boyz get 6 attacks, 4 hits, 2 wounds at -2 AP, so vs Space marines that is about 1.5 Dead Marines. Shoota boyz get 14 attacks, about 9-10 hits for 4-5 Wounds against a SM for about 1.5 Dead Marines.
You lose 1 Burna boy you lose 1/3rd of your effectiveness, you lose 1 shoota boy and you lose 1/7th of your effectiveness not hard to figure out why Burnas aren't taken except as a FREE upgrade on Kommandos.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Or just add those base edge extenders various companies made when people first started panicing when Marine base sizes when up
I have looked at those and there is no way to make it look even half decent without putting in more work than a complete rebase. I guess it will work with all those people that play with halfpainted or unpainted miniatures maybe?
Maybe there is a new kommando kit incomming and they didn't want to miss the opportunity to include them in KT from the beginning, but they want to drop it together with the codex release?
rhavien wrote: Maybe there is a new kommando kit incomming and they didn't want to miss the opportunity to include them in KT from the beginning, but they want to drop it together with the codex release?
Feels like it would make more sense to drop it with Kill team- it fits thematically, and would get people excited for orks.
Something that does slightly worry me (just a bit, not too much so don't yell at me and call me a babay like peoppe do every time I bring something up to discuss) is the article says this:
Orks – and Orks players – tend to take a different approach, preferring instead to blitz through the enemy in a mass of dakka, choppas and muscle, spreading anarchy and leaving enemy kill teams in the dust.
Now this is factually wrong bothnin a lore sense and real life sense. Firstly, if we just blitz we always lose in real life due to the balance. Most ork players now actually have to use tactics and be sneaky as it's the only way we can win most games. In fact, as a none standard Ork player who plays Blood Axes, Evil Sunz and Freebooters it's very fluffy for me to use tactics. So I really hope the entire codex isn't focused on just smashing the enemy with boyz again... would be nice to have tactics for the rest of the orks players who don't play goffs.
As for a lore sense, here is an excerpt for 1d4chan:
Spoiler:
Want to know how cunnin' they can really be? One time, WAAAGH! Grog, a small ork WAAAGH!, was having trouble out-dakkaing a Tau battleship guarding a Tau planet, the Korst'la (the Orks literally called it "The Big Dakkaship"). While Grog was off trying to get some more dakka, and hopefully this time maybe smash the thing, some Ork Kommandos figured out it would be easier just to smash the only spaceport the Korst'la could dock at. They took a captured Tau transport ship, and literally their way into the docks ("Help us, mighty Ethereals, help. Ork pirates everywhere dak-I mean, pummeled our fleet really bad. Please, we need repairs fast.") AND IT WORKED. You can imagine the epic slaughterfest that ensued once the ship's hatches opened. Station went boom, The Big Dakkaship soon became The Big EmptyFueltankShip, and WAAAGH! Grog proceeded to assrape the entire sector. If this sounds familiar then congratulations, you know your history.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Or just add those base edge extenders various companies made when people first started panicing when Marine base sizes when up
I had no idea those were a product. You'll be a lifesaver if we go to bigger bases.
Alternately, base any new Boyz you purchase on the bases supplied with them, leaving old Boyz on the bases they were supplied with.
Unless anyone else has seen different, I am not aware of any GW statement that a player MUST rebase older models whether it be square to round for fantasy or to a different size for 40K.
Most of my Marines remain on 25mm bases and I've never encountered any problems.
alphaecho wrote: Unless anyone else has seen different, I am not aware of any GW statement that a player MUST rebase older models whether it be square to round for fantasy or to a different size for 40K.
AoS just got a list of suggested base sizes (page 8+), and a few people are concerned that it might turn into a requirement.
lolman1c wrote: Something that does slightly worry me (just a bit, not too much so don't yell at me and call me a babay like peoppe do every time I bring something up to discuss) is the article says this:
Orks – and Orks players – tend to take a different approach, preferring instead to blitz through the enemy in a mass of dakka, choppas and muscle, spreading anarchy and leaving enemy kill teams in the dust.
Now this is factually wrong bothnin a lore sense and real life sense. Firstly, if we just blitz we always lose in real life due to the balance. Most ork players now actually have to use tactics and be sneaky as it's the only way we can win most games. In fact, as a none standard Ork player who plays Blood Axes, Evil Sunz and Freebooters it's very fluffy for me to use tactics. So I really hope the entire codex isn't focused on just smashing the enemy with boyz again... would be nice to have tactics for the rest of the orks players who don't play goffs.
As for a lore sense, here is an excerpt for 1d4chan:
Spoiler:
Want to know how cunnin' they can really be? One time, WAAAGH! Grog, a small ork WAAAGH!, was having trouble out-dakkaing a Tau battleship guarding a Tau planet, the Korst'la (the Orks literally called it "The Big Dakkaship"). While Grog was off trying to get some more dakka, and hopefully this time maybe smash the thing, some Ork Kommandos figured out it would be easier just to smash the only spaceport the Korst'la could dock at. They took a captured Tau transport ship, and literally bullshitted their way into the docks ("Help us, mighty Ethereals, help. Ork pirates everywhere dak-I mean, pummeled our fleet really bad. Please, we need repairs fast.") AND IT WORKED. You can imagine the epic slaughterfest that ensued once the ship's hatches opened. Station went boom, The Big Dakkaship soon became The Big EmptyFueltankShip, and WAAAGH! Grog proceeded to assrape the entire sector. If this sounds familiar then congratulations, you know your history.
Funny you say this Lolman because the exact same snippet from GW stood out to me also.
We have HAD to be some of the most tactically sound players if we'd want any chance of winning games in previous editions. This is absolutely wrong.
It also concerns me that GW is going to take the approach of "Orks are basic, so their army will be basic to play".
I know! Orks are the most complicated faction lore wise! It's why the Imperium fail so often against them, they do not understand them! Maybe this is why GW failed at them vor so many year... just like the imperium they under estimate orks and believe them to just be brutes who have no tactics.
If you go in depth on that snippet of lore I posted above you will find tha Tau are actually the on of the only races to give Orks the credit. They too believed Orks were just stupid animals who keep hitting their heads against walls until it breaks so when the kommandos actually stole the ship and tried to dock there was one dude who was like "this is stupidly suspicious" but then went "but we're fighting orks... those idiots don't even know how to speak!" Then boom! All dead! So after that they realised how smart orks are and how tricky and adaptive they can be. They're designed for war! The Old Ones, or Kork or Snottlings (depending on your lore) didn't just make a weapon that throws it's head against the wall until it won. That would never work against gods. They designed a hyper intelligent adaptive weapon that's main programed focus is problem solving to win a war or battle. Sometimes throwing millions againsta wall does win, this is an easy tactic that even the humans do in 40k and real life. But sometimes you need a ramb to hit a weakspot, sometimes you need to go behind the scenes, sometimes you need to out speed the enemy and sometimes you need to out smart them. Orks have eben slowly getting dumber and dumber in recent lore so i really hope this takes a turn around and they become the secret hidden weapons of war they always were.
Even their language is a misunderstanding. Orks speak like idiots but that's because they're native language isn't Gothic. Orks do have their own language they speak to each other and their own glyph writing system. Calling them simple because of this woukd be like calling the people who designed the pyramids as simple because their language is in Glyphs and they can't speak English. In fact, the older an Ork gets the more fluent his Gothic becomes as he practised it more and spoke it more just like any normal person learning a new language. The fact most Orks speak any type of Gothic shows how smart they can be.
alphaecho wrote: Unless anyone else has seen different, I am not aware of any GW statement that a player MUST rebase older models whether it be square to round for fantasy or to a different size for 40K.
AoS just got a list of suggested base sizes (page 8+), and a few people are concerned that it might turn into a requirement.
in addition, most tournaments and youtube channels make the correct base sizes a requirement now. And this always trickles down into standard games.
Well, the basic orc is simple and basically an idiot with a gun. Point him to the front and maybe he will hit someone, if your lucky it's even the enemy! Boys are blunt tools, even more blunt then their choppas. BUT as with everything, give an orc some time and a bit of wiggling space and he will grow into the challenge. Fighters get bigger, docs find out that hitting someone with an hammer is not necessarily the best treatment, especially if they have already a concussion, and meks get craftier, but don't expect beautiful designs, stuff has to be functional and boys will break it no matter how good it looks. Hell, orcs like ghazghkull demonstrated how clever individuals can get, while the green tide remains pretty basic and just is tailored to hit stuff with stuff till the hit stuff or the hitting stuff breaks
I have always loved Orks. I've never done them as an army as they are too horde-ish for me (I would not be able to handle painting up that many figures), but the fluff, the feel of them is amazing.
If they bring out ways to have viable small model armies, or be able to mix up different units, then I might have to go green.
Bloodmaster wrote: Well, the basic orc is simple and basically an idiot with a gun. Point him to the front and maybe he will hit someone, if your lucky it's even the enemy! Boys are blunt tools, even more blunt then their choppas. BUT as with everything, give an orc some time and a bit of wiggling space and he will grow into the challenge. Fighters get bigger, docs find out that hitting someone with an hammer is not necessarily the best treatment, especially if they have already a concussion, and meks get craftier, but don't expect beautiful designs, stuff has to be functional and boys will break it no matter how good it looks. Hell, orcs like ghazghkull demonstrated how clever individuals can get, while the green tide remains pretty basic and just is tailored to hit stuff with stuff till the hit stuff or the hitting stuff breaks
you have to remember, the vast majority of Orks were literally born yesterday! They're basically children with the basic training already built in with a lot of the boyz fighting their first ever battle. Of course they'll have no experience so just do what even a human might do and charge and get killed or aim poorly or hit the wrong guy. This happens with humans who are new to fighting and they had years to prepare. However, once an Ork survives those first few battles and years it's all up hill from there! They become smart, able to control and organise the other boyz like a teacher in a school and they're able to learn from their experience to go beyond their basic training. Now, seen as most of the tactics come from the commander (warboss, warlord, etc...) just like a human army, all the boyz don't ned to be smart they just need to follow orders.
Same with the Oddboyz with meks and pain boyz. The basic training is already there. They know how to build a trukk, shoota, bring an ork back to life but it's their creativity and experience that improves that. They get inspired by other races and they inspire each other. An ork doesn't come straight out of the mushroom patch knowing how to make the perfect bike. He learns over time what works and doesn't work and soon his kustom ride out speeds the rest of his comrades as he flings himself upwards to smash through the window of an imperial titan (a true lore story btw). Or they experiment and adapt. The painboy might stick an orks arm back on but then realise that ork just keeps comming back with another limb chopped off so he sits dow down, does a little thinking and bobs yah uncle robot arm of deff Now the only boyz that are comming back are the ones who tried to stand up to robot deff smasha! Hell, when Mad Dok put a bunch of bombs in his customers brains to make sure they don't hurt him I'm sure that wasn't in his programming. Or when the mek ork who smashed a moon into a planet I'm sure he was not born with that idea. Orks are just as complicated and as individuals as humans are... They just need a little time to grow into it.
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ritualnet wrote: I have always loved Orks. I've never done them as an army as they are too horde-ish for me (I would not be able to handle painting up that many figures), but the fluff, the feel of them is amazing.
If they bring out ways to have viable small model armies, or be able to mix up different units, then I might have to go green.
For many years we had the ability to go none horde. We used to have 10 men squds with 4 up saves in a trukk, or a mek army of killa kans, deff dread, nauts and stompas (no more than 20 models). Hell, even a mad max mob of wagons, bikes and trukks (again, max 30 models) but due to recent codex we lost all that. Even 7th edition made them viable because everything else kinda sucked. Now, we pick the same army and we're insta out gunned... for some reason orks have to pay a premium for their shooting and to me this just felt like GW telling us to go CC or get lost. I saw games where the freaking marines had more models and men and dakka than a bad moonz mek army! How have we even got to this stage!?
I with you. Just wanted to point out, that orcs don't learn over time. A boy might get older than a human, but if he is pressed into his boy status by other orcs he won't evolve. It's not age but possibilities that get orcs evolving.
Bloodmaster wrote: I with you. Just wanted to point out, that orcs don't learn over time. A boy might get older than a human, but if he is pressed into his boy status by other orcs he won't evolve. It's not age but possibilities that get orcs evolving.
Boyz do totally learn with age. A Skarboy is just an Ork Boy with lots of experience. He isn't a Nobz because the Nobz is still tougher but a Skarboyz team will out do a Boyz team anyday but hold the same rank due to both being the standard troops. Like a Private and a Private first class. Age is a key factor because 1. The older an Ork the more fights he has had so he is obviously larger and grown smarter. 2. He is smarter because he has learned more. There are mahy examples in the lore of older orks who are smarter than other orks because of their age. Nobz who correct other nobz, etc...
Hell, a kommando is basically still a boyz.. or boyz can swap classes if they want. Many Orks try out being a Storm Boyz for a bit where they learn military like training and gain a lot more experience but some go back to being a Boyz when they feel they don't like it anymore with age. Sort of like being a rebellious teen who grows up and gets a real job. They still have that training and experience that comes with growing up and trying out new things.
Also just want to correct you (this isn't anything negative against you just want to make sure your auto correct isn't on or anything) but they're not Orcs. Orcs are things that evolved from Elves or something in the LoTR fantasy universe. Orks (with a k ) are the 40k Alien race (basically starting out orginal as scifi orcs back in the 80s but evolving into a totally different thing that has become something unique but similar. This is why I'm worried for 40k... the new generation might just see them as scifi orcs when they're a lot different now due to year of extra lore changing their paths).
What I want to see is
1. Build your own warboss w / Use points to purchase special rules for him.
2. Better looted wagons.
3. Cheaper Meganobs
4. The old 5th edition Waaagh rules back.
5. Snikrot can bring special characters
6. Wound Allocation abuse like in 5th edition for Nob units
7. Boyz needs more weapons or something added ot them to make em feel fresh.
8. Stronger Kans and Deff Dread...especially kans. It seems like a single hit from a stray bolt pistol or las pistol can annihilate an entire army of these ultra slow, fragile and under powered wastes of points.
9. More Gretchen options
10. New Units.
alphaecho wrote: Unless anyone else has seen different, I am not aware of any GW statement that a player MUST rebase older models whether it be square to round for fantasy or to a different size for 40K.
AoS just got a list of suggested base sizes (page 8+), and a few people are concerned that it might turn into a requirement.
Thank you. I don't play AoS so wouldn't have read that.
The passage still makes it clear that it is suggested not mandatory.
I assume it will be less of an issue as time goes by as new models replace old but the point still stands. If a player wants to rebase older models, more power to the modelling elbow but the average collector/ modeller cannot be compelled to immediately rebase 250+ Boyz. I know I'm not.
mortar_crew wrote: As others already wrote,
"new" ork codexes have been a let down for some editions now,
so I am not hlding my breath for this one either.
But... I still love my green little guys and would be happy rulewise if:
Kommandos get their tankbusta bombs back.
Blood axes get their (granted, looted) rhino back.
You know what's funny about this? There has only been one ork codex in the last decade and it still feels like there were multiple terrible codices
alphaecho wrote: Unless anyone else has seen different, I am not aware of any GW statement that a player MUST rebase older models whether it be square to round for fantasy or to a different size for 40K.
AoS just got a list of suggested base sizes (page 8+), and a few people are concerned that it might turn into a requirement.
Thank you. I don't play AoS so wouldn't have read that.
The passage still makes it clear that it is suggested not mandatory.
I assume it will be less of an issue as time goes by as new models replace old but the point still stands. If a player wants to rebase older models, more power to the modelling elbow but the average collector/ modeller cannot be compelled to immediately rebase 250+ Boyz. I know I'm not.
There will be problems if you want to add miniatures to the army tho. It is easy to just brush away now but it will be a major problem for all old ork players when they will be forced to rebase your entire collection down the road.
There are a LOT of things in 40k that are "suggestions" but in reallity has become hard rules if you want to have a game...
alphaecho wrote: Unless anyone else has seen different, I am not aware of any GW statement that a player MUST rebase older models whether it be square to round for fantasy or to a different size for 40K.
AoS just got a list of suggested base sizes (page 8+), and a few people are concerned that it might turn into a requirement.
Thank you. I don't play AoS so wouldn't have read that.
The passage still makes it clear that it is suggested not mandatory.
I assume it will be less of an issue as time goes by as new models replace old but the point still stands. If a player wants to rebase older models, more power to the modelling elbow but the average collector/ modeller cannot be compelled to immediately rebase 250+ Boyz. I know I'm not.
There will be problems if you want to add miniatures to the army tho. It is easy to just brush away now but it will be a major problem for all old ork players when they will be forced to rebase your entire collection down the road.
There are a LOT of things in 40k that are "suggestions" but in reallity has become hard rules if you want to have a game...
I'm never going to rebase my Boyz. I don't expect people I play with to rebase either. They either want to or don't or it's never been an issue for them because they have a new army with "current bases". To me it looked like GW skipped base size rules intentionally with the way they put the rules together. I'll just stop playing with random people if there are complaints.
If orks become fun enough to play again, I'll probably re-base all of them. It has always bugged me that almost every ork in existence is too big for his base.
I don't invest a whole lot into basing though, I prefer just painting them black again after I'm done painting the model. So cutting off the bases and gluing new black bases to my orks is nowhere near the effort it takes to properly base them.
My armies are RT era, square bases for fantasy and 25mm round for sci fi. Played in store, in house, in club, in competitions, never had a problem (‘cept that one who asked if mine was a Grot army. Git.)
JimOnMars wrote: I'm looking at the Sector Imperialis 32mm bases. Not super cheap, but less overpriced than most GW products.
Did anyone else know you can get them on walmart.com?
I've begun using them for all my newer armies to match their spaceship boarding themes, and they are realy nice to work with. They are made from the same plastic as the kits, unlike the black plastic for most bases, and they are a bit more hefty and sturdy I feel. Less issues with them sliding around anyway. I like them.
I plan to start mixing in Sector Mechanicum bases now those are available.
When I get round to converting my small Ork force into Freebooterz, I'll use them for that too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: From today's rumour engine. Now there are a few possibilities... But my immediate thought was an Ork squigskin cloak.
mortar_crew wrote: As others already wrote,
"new" ork codexes have been a let down for some editions now,
so I am not hlding my breath for this one either.
But... I still love my green little guys and would be happy rulewise if:
Kommandos get their tankbusta bombs back.
Blood axes get their (granted, looted) rhino back.
You know what's funny about this? There has only been one ork codex in the last decade and it still feels like there were multiple terrible codices
I fell yah man. I only knew the last few editions but I feel like this. We're both ork players, we always wanted what was best for Orks and so with every edition it felt like our rules changed and our codex wasuodated to be out of date. I mean come on! They ignored orks for 2 editions! We had no codex for 6 year through 5th and 6th. So we were expecting something huge! Something that would make up for all those years (they had those years to get ready for an amazing fluff filled fun Orky codex that was useful... hell! They could have spent 1 of those years just doing an hour a day on the codex and it would have been amazing). But then we got 7th.... 6 years of wanting an update and we got something that wished we had the 4th edition codex back. XD Now we've waited 4 years for another codex as an apology note. I mean I was 15 when 4th edition came out! Come on! I kmow this might seem to some people as Ork players upset when other factions get less but as a supposed main founding faction we've felt like a tag on dlc for years now.
It's not easy to watch the tyranids, space marines, Imperial Guard get a codex every edition while you waied 6 years for 7th edition. XD
JimOnMars wrote: I'm looking at the Sector Imperialis 32mm bases. Not super cheap, but less overpriced than most GW products.
Did anyone else know you can get them on walmart.com?
I've begun using them for all my newer armies to match their spaceship boarding themes, and they are realy nice to work with. They are made from the same plastic as the kits, unlike the black plastic for most bases, and they are a bit more hefty and sturdy I feel. Less issues with them sliding around anyway. I like them.
I plan to start mixing in Sector Mechanicum bases now those are available.
When I get round to converting my small Ork force into Freebooterz, I'll use them for that too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: From today's rumour engine. Now there are a few possibilities... But my immediate thought was an Ork squigskin cloak.
Nah mate, emperor's children, Dark Eldar or a flag for the primaris Ultramarines made from the skin of ever xenos race.
AM didn't get a 7th Ed codex, so they are actually only one codex ahead of Orks, two with 8th Edition so far. The 6th Ed AM codex also gutted a lot of the flavour compared to the 5th ed one, which cut out much of the flavour of the 3.5/4th ed one.
My armies are RT era, square bases for fantasy and 25mm round for sci fi. Played in store, in house, in club, in competitions, never had a problem (‘cept that one who asked if mine was a Grot army. Git.)
Just saying.
How do you add miniatures to the armies? Do you have pictures?
The stiching is too crude to be Emperor's children. Compare it to Fabius Bile, who has very neat stiching.
Zarroc1733 wrote: As a Grey Knights player I feel for you Ork players. May your codex be filled with great stuff. I at least hope its better than mine!
Anyways I've been trying to look though the thread but have been unsuccessful thus far. Anyone heard any rumors on when we can expect this codex?
Haighus wrote: The stiching is too crude to be Emperor's children. Compare it to Fabius Bile, who has very neat stiching.
Zarroc1733 wrote: As a Grey Knights player I feel for you Ork players. May your codex be filled with great stuff. I at least hope its better than mine!
Anyways I've been trying to look though the thread but have been unsuccessful thus far. Anyone heard any rumors on when we can expect this codex?
Current thinking is September/October.
Maybe it's just an emperor's children who forgot to go to Slaanesh's stitching class it holds every 50 years.
Anyway, I and other people keep bringing up rumours but I'm told they're rubbish and fake and then we go back to talking about anything. I don't know though, I still enjoy this thread for what it is.
As for the imperial guard codex. I was more talking about seeing them get the codex in 4th, 5th and 6th. We've both had it hard I will admit (we were the real armies after all for real 40k fans... none of that ultramarine elitism) but the IG had time to prepare for the crap in 7th. It was a gradual process through the Ward Years. We were just thrown something after 6 years and it was worse than anyone could imagine.
This is why i was so happy for IG to get the solid codex they did. They deserved it after what GW put yah through.
Haighus wrote: AM didn't get a 7th Ed codex, so they are actually only one codex ahead of Orks, two with 8th Edition so far. The 6th Ed AM codex also gutted a lot of the flavour compared to the 5th ed one, which cut out much of the flavour of the 3.5/4th ed one.
So 5th, 6th and 8th, thats actually 3 codexes compared to one since 4th edition.
Not that this has anything whatsoever to do with this thread.
My armies are RT era, square bases for fantasy and 25mm round for sci fi. Played in store, in house, in club, in competitions, never had a problem (‘cept that one who asked if mine was a Grot army. Git.)
Just saying.
How do you add miniatures to the armies? Do you have pictures?
Hi,
ebay is your friend, here, and you'd be surprised at how many RT minis come out of the woodwork once word gets around. 'Here, you can have these, they were in the back of the cupboard' sort of thing.
Not that I expect this to happen or anything, but the Boyz and (and Boys for fantasy), are getting a little long in the tooth...I know the 40K sprue got a retooling a few years back, but they didn't update the model sculpts at all...It would be nice if the Orks/Orruks. got a little bit of a face lift.
This ship has sailed long ago, but I think Orks would be more interesting if they went back to their more balanced stats of RT and second edition 4+ws and 4+bs. CC oriented lists could still focus that way with equipment and list comp, but shooting lists could become more viable. Could also slow specialization, i.e. Shoota boys 4+ws 4+bs and choppa boys 3+ws and 5+bs.
Also GW needs to re sculpt the standard Ork boyz. The newer ork sculpts look so much better. The ork boyz sculpts are over 20 years old and it shows.
Fango wrote: Not that I expect this to happen or anything, but the Boyz and (and Boys for fantasy), are getting a little long in the tooth...I know the 40K sprue got a retooling a few years back, but they didn't update the model sculpts at all...It would be nice if the Orks/Orruks. got a little bit of a face lift.
On the one hand I'd basically have to lie down and cry because it means painting up a whole new batch of 100 boyz, but if it looks good (mostly by making them not have that stupid jutting butt) I'd have to go with it.
My armies are RT era, square bases for fantasy and 25mm round for sci fi. Played in store, in house, in club, in competitions, never had a problem (‘cept that one who asked if mine was a Grot army. Git.)
Just saying.
How do you add miniatures to the armies? Do you have pictures?
Hi,
ebay is your friend, here, and you'd be surprised at how many RT minis come out of the woodwork once word gets around. 'Here, you can have these, they were in the back of the cupboard' sort of thing.
I love those old sculpts, so much character! Thanks for showing them.
I have lost most of mine through the years but i still have a bunch of the old chaos renegades.
But i still cant see how i could continue to grow my collection with new miniatures without rebasing the lot. I did a quick calculation and just the bases and basing material would be something like 150-200 euro.
The only good ones of late late have been the gits, the mek boy and Grukk.
The new ironjaw and savage orc sculpts scare me. Their faces are all angular and weird and dont have the same quality to them as the classic ork faces. It looks like they're all sculpted in a computer program.
The horrible angular butt joint notwithstanding, the oldschool ork faces are da best. Even the old classic ork warboss with big choppa and the attack squig warboss are some of the best designed ever.
Couldn’t agree more TedNugent - the current 40k ork faces are far superior to what we have seen from the AOS orruk range. I’d be seriously disappointed if they applied that design ethos to our Orks
The only good ones of late late have been the gits, the mek boy and Grukk.
The new ironjaw and savage orc sculpts scare me. Their faces are all angular and weird and dont have the same quality to them as the classic ork faces. It looks like they're all sculpted in a computer program.
The horrible angular butt joint notwithstanding, the oldschool ork faces are da best. Even the old classic ork warboss with big choppa and the attack squig warboss are some of the best designed ever.
Those were the new sculpts I was thinking (shokk attack gun and nobs aren't bad too). I hadn't considered the AOS orcs. They are like Orks minus joy. Not bad per se, just not the same planet as 40k orks in my mind.
This is what I'm saying. Orks became their own thing and were unique compared to Orcs. Orcs were just dumb bad guys, the Orks were heavy metal English insane geniuses! (Coming from Northern England where a lot of people's spoke like Orks I think might makeme realte to them more). And the great thing about 40k is that Orcs did exist for people who just wanted fantasy sci fi orks (they are called snakebites... so everyone was happy). But a lot of the new 40k players just want that angry looking bad guy Orc fantasy range to be the main defining trait of orks and I honestly think a lot of the 40kdevs just see Orks as space fantasy Orcs so always get really confused when wpthe Ork player base gets angry at them for doing that. They sit in a room and think "But we made Orcs in space, isn't that what they are? I do not get it!"
As for the 32mm Ork boyz... I disagree. I don't like the size of the base, it puts too much emphasis on the boyz and separates them way too much we so much empty space. Would love to see a picture of 200 boyz on 32mm bases so see what it looked lioe because I feel it won't feel orky at all. Ork boyz are just like guardsmen. They're a tightly packed single minded weapon. When you have them on 25mm they feel like they're all jumping over each other to get to their goal. 32mm just feels too regimented. The nobz look good on the bases though and I myself always base my Nobz on a 32mm or a 40mm (I can't remember) even if they're the leader of the squad.
I've always thought that 40k Orks were viewed by GW as something closer to Space Skaven then Space Orcs. All the crazy tech that often blows itself up, kunnin thinkers, silly characters, the weird caste systems they are born into, etc. They definitely don't feel like faceless Fantasy Orcs at all.
Gordy2000 wrote: Couldn’t agree more TedNugent - the current 40k ork faces are far superior to what we have seen from the AOS orruk range. I’d be seriously disappointed if they applied that design ethos to our Orks
Get Brian Nelson back or go home!
He sculpted the AoS Megaboss, which is the basis of the Ironjaw range.
Requesting a lock on this one - its pure discussion and wishlisting at this stage.
Clicking in every other day to see zero actual updates or news or pics is a bit tedious.....
Malkyr wrote: I've always thought that 40k Orks were viewed by GW as something closer to Space Skaven then Space Orcs. All the crazy tech that often blows itself up, kunnin thinkers, silly characters, the weird caste systems they are born into, etc. They definitely don't feel like faceless Fantasy Orcs at all.
That's what I said. They do not feel like faceless fantasy orks. They feel unique and have become their own thing but I fear GW or the newer 40k fans see them as faceless fantasy orks. You have no idea how many conversatios I've had with 40k players (even ork players) who think this or watched a 10 min video on lore taken from 7th edition codex and believed Orks are just dumb Orks who only have tecknolgy work because they believe in it like some dumb 3 year old wishing to a fairy. Ork tecknolgy works because it works... a single mek with no waaagh powers can go out there and make a moon smash into a planet. But give that mek a few billion orks next to him who all want to see the moon smash into a planet then that moon will smash through the planet and into 3 others on its way to the sun.
I know this is going off topic but I kinda feel it's my duty to help people understand orks more so here is a greta analysis of Waaagh powers and how they work (prepare for a long read my friends):
Spoiler:
“Gork and Mork stirred and a wave of fear passed through the warp. Suicide and incidence of violent crime climbed steeply. On Icholbar an Astropath screamed and threw himself from the balcony of a skyscraper apartment, yelling that his people were doomed. On the craftworld Hope of Other Days, an Eldar philosopher stopped listening to the atonal music of his waterchimes and began composing his death-haiku. On distant Earth, a living corpse in a golden throne opened eyes that held fear for the first time in centuries.” Extract from In The Warp Something Stirred, Waaargh! The Orks, pg.71
Waaagh Energy is a potent thing in the Ork’s arsenal. I’d actually argue it is the most potent and misunderstood concept in the whole of the Ork pantheon. It has such vastly wide consequences I need to discuss it in 3 chapters, and no doubt it’ll come up as a topic numerous times over the course of the whole series.
All Orkoids are slightly psychic. Their connection to the warp is extremely strong, and their unflinching beliefs produce the immensely powerful warp reflection of Gork and Mork, the Ork gods, who unerringly romp throughout the Warp beating up every other god and always triumphing. Gork and Mork will come up again later in the series, but the issue of how the Gods were created is the key to understanding the Waaagh, and some of the potential it has.
The quote supplied above (and how awesome is it) was something I thought was merely another in a long line of “Staffer Hearsay”: cool stories that come from somewhere that is most likely the Universe of Made Up Crap. But to my surprise, I found it in the story In The Warp Something Stirred (which is possibly the best example of understatement in all of 40k) in Waaargh! The Orks. The story tells of the first Waa-Ork (which is what Waaargh! The Orks calls a Waaagh!), which creates both the psychic awakening of the whole Orkoid race, but also the two Ork Gods. What spawns this magnificent revolution? A Mek deciding, for the first time, to build a gargant. The psychic energy produced by that realisation is enough to briefly wake the Emperor from a state of quite profound death.
Waaagh Energy and an actual Waaagh! are entirely the same thing. Waaagh Energy is the psychic build-up, a melting pot of the subconscious psychic energy of a group of Orkoids. The more Orkoids there are, and the more aggressive they are, the more powerful the energy. It’s the reason Orks grow big, it’s the reason Squigs fill the societal needs they do, and it’s the reason that Ork Society works the way it does. With Waaagh Energy, there is virtually nothing the Orks cannot do.
Orks have a can-do philosophy. Orks don’t worry about their problems, or about failure, they just try something different until the difficulty is overcome. As they go about their existence, the Orkoid psychic subconscious ensures that this philosophy works. If the Ork wants to take over the Warband, he toughens up. If he wants to build something, by fiddling about and not knowing what he’s doing, he’ll build it. It isn’t completely flawless, but the Waaagh Energy will make the desired outcome at least possible, if the right conditions are in place.
What are the right conditions? Well, we’ll come back to this in part 2, but Waaagh Energy does have its limits, most of the time. The limitation is the imagination, or common perception of Orkoids, as well as reality itself. I can see some arguments about how this system can be abused, but it’s virtually impossible. If an Ork doesn’t believe something possible, it won’t happen. Remember that Waaagh Energy is wholly subconscious. So its limits are self-imposed. There are many things Orks wouldn’t bother with, and they adhere to various schools of thought that regulate their behaviour, such as Clan Affiliations, or just the Orky outlook in general. So, whilst the possibilities of Waaagh Energy are infinite, their actual potential is dependent on the outlook of the Orkoids that foster it. If an Ork, for instance, believes Blue to be a lucky colour, it is unlikely that they’d immediately conclude that pink is luckier without some significant influence upon their outlook.
Orks are probably the least imaginative of all the Orkoids, perhaps of the entire 40k universe, so Ork society has to get around to certain ideas usually by accident, tradition, or in response to stimuli from encountering other races. This regulates Waaagh Energy uses quite well, but also allows it to be scaled up, as needed. Thus Orks actually get a lot better in every way if they have a good opponent, because their expansion is based upon reacting to their stimulus, rather than relying on the basic Ork societal programming.
As a side note here, one could be led to conclude that Orks actually need war to enhance their society, and their very species. Without much of a complex history, or an overly imaginative and dynamic society, Orks need stimulus to draw from, so if the Orks find themselves a good opponent or two, they’ll learn from them how to be more successful. When your outlook and biology is purely based on survival, you will need survival to be more of a challenge to truly improve at it.
Waaagh Energy is also the likely candidate for what controls the sporing process. Orkoids form their own eco-system, wherever they go. The 3 greenskin hierarchy forms the basis of Ork society, whilst the Squigs play havoc with the local environment, as well as evolving to suit societal needs. The sporing process works like clockwork, filling in gaps, slowly building up the Orkoid Species from nothing into everything, releasing spores at the same time, regressing development to produce new Orkoids, and so on. What on earth controls all this? The Waaagh! of course.
The Orkoids’ subconscious psychic resonance is constant at any state of development , providing the impetus to biological processes. Taken as a whole, this resonance is able to cater for all the biological and social needs of Ork society as a whole. Viewed this way, it’s hard not to view Orkoid culture as a gestalt entity; acting as one uniting concept, yet being a vastly diversified culture with four separate species working towards the benefit of them all. It doesn’t always work out, but the potential for the process is always there, in every, single spore.
This psychic energy is also used in battle. We will go into more detail regarding its more subtle uses and such in Chapter 4 (when we’ll really get to the big misconceptions), but the main usage it sees in battle is the Power of Waaagh! and when in use by the Ork pskyers, namely Weirdboyz.
Before continuing, it is worth noting that there is no difference between the two different examples and how they manifest. All Orkoid psychic energy is resonance, and this resonance is itself the Waaagh!, it just varies as to how pronounced, or even aggressive it is. An Orkoid might not even be vaguely aware of its presence, but even the most minute to the most blatant application of this psychic energy comes from precisely the same source.
The Waaagh! is the most potent example of this phenomena. It is the peak of a build up of energy. Almost all Orks build up to this moment, and when the moment finally arrives all that energy and effort used to get to that moment is released simultaneously, to such a powerful extent that it can only be verbally expressed by its very words, and that expression is unlikely to be subtle.
The Waaagh! is resonance at its least subtle. An Ork will particularly feel the effects of its powers, overcome by a lust for glory and battle. It will help them toughen up; it will speed them up and even give them fortune at vital moments. It also gives the ability for a powerful Warboss to instantly unify and concentrate the attentions of hundreds, perhaps thousands or millions of Orkoids into a single objective.
This psychic energy is a virtual constant, and exists in every Orkoid. It can be tapped into specially gifted Orks called Weirdboyz, who tap into that reserve of power and manifest it in psychic attacks and energy. By rights, Ork Weirdboyz should have the most powerful psychic powers in the game, at least by nature of raw power. Because they’re tapping not only from the Warp as other psykers do, but from a race who are all psychically endowed and virtually unified by belief.
Whereas all other races and powers often run into problems because their faithful themselves have flawed and limited convictions, an Ork simply never bothers with such concerns, and their beliefs are unflinching. The Powers of Chaos, for instance, can be undermined, or enhanced, by doubt. Gretchin are a very doubtful race, or at least fatalistic by their very nature, but they generally have faith in their masters, and fully accept that Orks will win.
It should be stated, perhaps even overstated, that Psychic Energy isn’t unstoppable. It still answers to the reality of 40k as much as anything else, and Waaagh energy can only be expected to bend that reality in very narrow instances. If we use an odd analogy, Ork’s unflinching belief mixed with psychic resonance would not make Orks always roll 6s, even if there might be some slight psychic influence so that all Ork players on our planet do indeed roll more 6s than Beakie players, let’s say, it wouldn’t be all the time. There might be a small moment in time when Orks are under the muster of a particularly powerful Ork Warlord that this maxim was possible for a particular endeavour; at least now we know why Ghaz’ ‘Prophet of the Waaagh!’ rule works.
An Ork with very strong psychic abilities and an inclination for survival is still going to look woeful after his head gets hit by a bolter round; it’s just before that he may have managed to run the distance of several football pitches without slowing down, and bringing a large choppa to bear that could even possibly put an unpleasant mark on a tank. Sadly his imagination didn’t really stretch to a rocket-propelled explosive shell heading towards his face, and reality could be bothered to contradict the possibility.
In spite of this, there’s not a single thing in the Ork fluff that Orks or any Orkoid has achieved without some help from psychic resonance. It is the invisible hand that helps guide the Orkoids to their many successes, and even those inevitable failures; but it’ll still be there to pick them up afterwards (not that they’ll need it). Over the course of the next two chapters, we are going to explore this odd relationship even further. Chapter 4 (Part 2) will discuss the main misconceptions of resonance (and I promise to completely resolve one of them once and for all) and Chapter 5 (Part 3) will go into a little speculation about the biggest misconception about resonance, that resonance is somehow limited to Orks.
Resonance (Part 2): Ork Guns Don’t Work Just Because They Think They Do (and other misconceptions about resonance) “However, disturbing as it sounds, these ‘facts’ become true. Red Ork vehicles do travel perceptibly faster than those of other colours, even when all other design aspects are nominally the same. Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work unless wielded by an Ork. I believe this is linked to the strong psychic aura surrounding all Orkoids and have developed the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. I theorise that many Orks themselves think that they should work. The strong telekinetic abilities of the Orks’ subconscious somehow ensure that the machinery or weaponry functions as desired.”
(The “Other” Anzion Article, 3rd Edition Ork Codex, pg.48)
Almost all misconceptions in fiction are based upon a general misreading of a particular feature within it. It’s usually a blank, sweeping generalisation of something, usually acquired by taking a literal, unimaginative (and often incomplete) conclusion based upon only what is emphatically said, and/or taken from currently given examples. This is what I like to call stroking the canon. Most fanboys do it constantly, and there’s an easy way to spot it, just look for a moment when any fanboy says: “No, X wouldn’t do that…” That’s usually a good indicator that what they really mean is: “I have no imagination. I need this to be untrue because it rocks what little certainty remains in my life.”
We’re all probably guilty of this from time to time, usually unconsciously. Certainly, not every statement that claims a fictional entity can’t do something is wrong, because much of fiction relies on people intrinsically understanding things that are quite well (sometimes even rigidly) defined. But one should always be wary. A writer sometimes expects you to read between the lines, and take logical conclusions. There are many debates on the internet, that spout from the apparent logical paradoxes of actions committed, usually by characters or factions in fictional works, as if the only sensible solution they can come up with is the one characters are always going to arrive at, even in stressful situations.
It also pays if you actually truly understand the character or faction you’re ranting about.
So this leads me quite well to resonance. Resonance plays host for a myriad of quite horrific misconceptions, and is famously quite bad for confusing people, or being such an unknown entity that some 40k fans aren’t even aware that the fictional device exists at all! By far the worst of it though, is those who know it quite well, and use it with tiresome regularity as evidence that Orks suck, are stupid, or don’t make sense. Tonight, I will provide all Ork fans with the final and clinching argument that ends all of this nonsense, and to those who have used said argument, a quite thorough literal thrashing. Because anyone who says Ork guns only work because Orks think they do (what TV Tropes terms “Clap Your Hands If You Believe”) is actually wrong.
The key to understanding this particular misconception is actually the key to understanding the Orks.
Before we deal with the misconception, we should discuss why such a conclusion could be made. As I mentioned previously, all Orks are slightly psychic, and Orks utilise this energy via resonance, which controls various aspects of their biological processes (notably growth and replication), as well as assisting their existence by promoting success.
In addition to the benefits of the Waaagh! , resonance also has a massive impact upon the day-to-day needs and beliefs of Orkoids. Orkoid Resonance doesn’t actually stop working, and it is actually a constant that most likely affects all Orkoids in various ways throughout their existence: shaping, aiding and controlling the Orkoids’ progression in Ork society. The two best known of these applications are Orkoid Weapons and the infamous Red Paint Job.
The concept of Red Wunz Go Fasta will be well known to most Ork Players, and most likely most 40k players. How and why it works is all down to resonance, an aspect of which mentioned in the second Anzion article from the 3rd Edition Ork Codex (see Chapter quote above), and is termed: the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. Quite hilariously pompous, but shortened to Mechamorphic Resonance, it can be somewhat functional.
As is explained in the article, its origins are likely quite innocent, with an imperceptible change in speed between two vehicles, one of which was red. Likewise it could also spring from ideas promoted by Evil Sunz and/or the Cult of Speed, trying to suggest that their vehicles were faster, or more likely they adopted red vehicles because they were indeed faster. One could theorise the origins of the true adage until the Squiggoths turn up, but it works for the Orks just the same.
Some people think that Andy Chambers invented this for 3rd Edition. This is partly right, Andy C probably was responsible for it, but the concept itself is as old as Rogue Trader, being mentioned in Waaargh The Orks! (like pretty much everything else, aside of sporing). Although the clear explanation is a 3rd Ed invention, it’s likely that the characteristics of Waaagh Energy were clanking around in Andy’s deranged mind for the many years it took him to get it down on paper.
So, as we know from last time, resonance responds to the belief and perceptions of Orkoids. If those perceptions are common enough, they start to actually happen on a massive and universal scale. So once all Orkdom was convinced that Red Vehicles are indeed faster because they are red, it becomes a constant truism for Orks. But as mentioned last time, that perception has to have originally been ground in some form of reality or otherwise the Orks would have never believed it. Orks can make quite fanciful conclusions, but they don’t get them from nowhere. They need something to conclude from.
Thus we are led to the major misconception. It is true that resonance plays a big role in how most Ork technology works. Orks are by and large “can-do” thinkers, not exactly optimistic, just not pessimistic. Thus the concept of failure is something Orks don’t think about, so resonance is merely helping to eliminate the likelihood of failure. Bear in mind that this wont always work, because Orks have to be convinced of its value, and reality is going to rear its ugly head quite often (take note of the fact that Orks can be killed, which shows that realism is still there; no Ork expects, wants or believes they are going to die, yet invariably will, in spite of resonance). Orks have a tendency towards some rationalism, so it is unlikely that Orks would suddenly be able to teleport, or master anti-gravity. Bear these limits in mind, because they’re important.
The Anzion Resonance Article mentions that Ork weapons don’t really work without Orks being there. This is technically true, but there are a number of important distinctions to bear in mind. Not bearing said distinctions in mind leads to the quantum leap that Ork weapons and technology only works because they think it does. Sadly said conclusion is based purely on ignorance of the fluff.
Taking note of where the offending fluff comes from is the first important distinction. Because it notes quite clearly that Meks are spored with an inherent knowledge of “basic physics and mechanical engineering theory”, so even if Meks are completely unaware of what they are building and how they built it, it seems likely that their understanding is at least intuitive enough to be mostly efficient and workable. So it would seem pretty rash to conclude from the fluff that Meks can’t actually build anything, and that an Ork gun is a rusty pipe and a stick held together with gaffer tape. It’s as likely to be as good attempt at a gun as any other engineer with a flair for building would do.
So, Ork technology can plausibly work. Thus it is already clear that the claim of belief being the only factor is clearly wrong. Then if you include the idea even mentioned in the example for the Red Paint Job in the same article (again), you are faced with the fact that something had to form a realistic influence (i.e. a red vehicle perceptively went faster for some unforeseen technical reason than a non-red vehicle) in order for the perception to be enforced by resonance; so at one point a Mek presumably managed to replicate the affect of a weapon that they encountered, or originally used, and at some point it actually stopped mattering whether the technology all worked or not.
Besides, it’s not as if the Imperials are any better. Let’s look at their lasguns.
Psychic resonance on Ork weapons is a fundamental aspect of Ork construction. Psychic energy is channelled from the powers of the warp. Other races channel the warp as a power source, creating warp engines and so forth. If Orks are the only means by which their technology gains that empowerment, then to say that Orks believe stuff works merely because they think they do, is to take a battery out of a torch and expect it to work on its own.
Aside of the fact that this is a real life example versus a fictional one, the point is twofold: Of course, the torch won’t work, so therefore the maxim is true, surely? But that’s just it, the maxim is just as much wrong. Because with or without a battery, you still have a torch. The fact humans have a battery rather than the power of belief is no difference. A Battery is a maguffin that makes something work, and so too in the fictional universe of 40k is waaagh energy. If belief is reflected in psychic resonance, and that resonance can be channelled into making things work, it is a power source in the same way that atomic energy is. So it is only absurd in that it is fictional, and in its own context (i.e. fiction) such a consideration is irrelevant.
Although I doubt the powering up of your battery caused a dead man’s eyes to open and caused a psychic space explorer to jump to his death, did it? You thought your battery hadn’t run out either. You were wrong on both counts.
Well I said lasgun and meant torch… it’s pretty easy to mix those two things up. They both run on power packs that are essentially called batteries. Besides, the Imperials view technology as part of a religion. The mocking should really be coming from the Ork players.
So there we go. You need some logical basis for the thing to happen, or at least some kind of basis. I’m perfectly sure that it doesn’t matter anyway. Because resonance is an inseparable part of the Orks, and it makes no difference either way. To belittle the influence of resonance as a cop-out, or evidence of stupidity would be a bit like hand-waving every advancement humanity has made through the use of opposable thumbs. If a feature exists for a race (fictional or real) then said race is going to make use of it, or it’s a bit pointless it being there at all.
Understanding that resonance works in particular ways and is always present can help to solve a number of mysteries about the Orks. In particular, it can answer a few things about what makes Orks tick. It can explain why Madboyz can be physically stronger than all other Orks, and also explains a few of their powers (in Rogue Trader, some Madboyz could make things float about like poltergeist activity), as their irrational minds can actually bring out the true potential of resonance, because they are not as grounded by reality and rationalism as other Orks.
It also can also help explain why Goffs are smelly and Bad Moons teeth grows faster, also why blue is lucky, probably why Blood Axes are Sneaky, and also how Ork anaesthesia works. The likes of smelly goffs and teeth-rich Bad Moons probably started off life as insults from the other clans, racial slurs upon them that eventually started being true. Most likely at one point they were based in fact: perhaps a particularly successful Goff Warlord was really smelly for some reason (or perhaps non-Goffs foresaw a particular problem about shunning transports in favour of running…), and perhaps a infamous Bad Moon trader, mek or warboss had teeth that seemed to grow quicker (or perhaps Bad Moons were just so good at business and making teeth that Orks began thinking it was because their teeth grew quicker).
So, the next time some player makes some sarcy comment about Ork weaponry, get them to take the battery out of their mobile phone.
Resonance (Part 3): It’s Not Just About The Orks: TWC Speculates On Resonance in Other Orkoids “The Waaagh tendency as seen in Orkoid individuals is an organism-scale reflection of a biological activity occurring at a cellular level. Separate orkoid organisms, be they adult, be they embryonic or cellular, generate a constant and stable field of resonance (probably psionic) that, when they intersect, cause biological processes to accelerate, engorge and expand.” (Xenology, pg.44)
So this is where we somewhat move into the grounds of conjecture. It isn’t quite as unsupported as others have claimed previously, but as Orks are the Orkoids with the most emphasis put into them, one is required to look at sources that don’t outright state things literally. In spite of the somewhat indirect nature of the fluff with regards the “lesser” Orkoids, there is much of that fluff that speaks very loudly indeed.
The misconception is very obvious – there are many 40k fans and Ork players alike who conclude that resonance occurs only in Orks, and not in the others, or if it does, it adds nothing the Orks are already capable of, and there is no overlap. In light of, as I said earlier, the amount of fluff that doesn’t directly contradict this doesn’t exactly help. But that’s just it, without resonance fluff there to explain the oddities of our Orkoid entourage, what explanation is there?
So what evidence is there? Well, there are, actually, only three primary sources for both the sporing process, and the resonance fluff (or at least how both of them have been clearly explained, even if resonance has been in the Ork fluff since Rogue Trader), and that is the two Anzion Articles and Xenology, which if you’ve been following this series, should already be very familiar to you; at least by name, if you haven’t yet read them.
Every time there is a sentence that uses the word “Orkoids” instead of Orks, it is applying the concept to the whole species, genus or whatever word you want to use to describe the entirety of Orkdom. The biology of Orkoids, their symbiosis, resilience and sporing process naturally invoke the word Orkoids, but so too do many other of the fundamentals of Ork fluff: when the fluff discusses the idea of genetically inherited skills, it says Orkoids, not Orks; when it discusses the idea that warfare makes Orks stronger, it again, uses the word Orkoids (even if it makes it clear this effect is more pronounced in Orks, it still occurs to the others); and Xenology, well if there is any doubt about whether the fluff mentions Orkoids having resonance, the article quote solves that one.
The issue isn’t so much “can other Orkoids use resonance”, but more what can be said about what they do with it. There isn’t a whole lot to go on, which isn’t actually that surprising; when, rather perplexingly for such a subtle and outright important aspect of the Orkoids, there is barely more than a page or two worth of fluff describing the whole thing; let alone what it does for the other Orkoids.
Interestingly, it’s actually easier to support the claim of what it does for the simplest Orkoid organisms (Snotlings and Squigs) than what it does for the more complicated species of the Gretchin, for whom there’s barely anything to suggest they use it. We will come back to the Orkoids in more detail in the next series (Orks and Ork Society), so for now I’ll only mention aspects that are relevant to resonance. Quite frankly I could mention all of it, but a few strong examples from each should be sufficient.
So let’s start with Squigs. As I mentioned in Chapter 2, Squigs come in a lot of shapes and sizes. These variations vary quite vastly between different types of Squig, but what is remarkable about them is how the Orks make use of them. There is not a single Squig in the Ork fluff that Orks don’t use for something, even if it is as simple as being eaten. Some of the more exotic variations get used for all sorts of things. Buzzer Squigs are commonly used as primitive ammunition (Squig Catapults); Oil Squigs provide almost all of the oil and lubrication for Mek’s machinations; Vampire Squigs are one of many used by Doks, and is used for drinking up bad blood and septic pus from wounds; Hairy Squigs are the source by which Orks have hair; Paint Squigs are the source by which Orks get paint.
If I was a Xenologist in that fictional universe, I’d find it hard to conclude that all these incredibly useful perks turned up simply by chance. Of course, they probably did. But it’s their resurgence and capacity to be commonplace that tells you something about the Orks. Although not outright stated, the likely culprit of all of this must be resonance. Just consider for a moment, that these various perks are likely filling gaps in the Ork’s environment that they require at the time. So it is likely that the resonance alters certain Squigs so that they produce an affect that the Orks’ society needs at that time.
It can in some cases be quite a radical manifestation, if you look at Feral Tribes. Take for instance, the Boar or the Squiggoth. The Squiggoth is definitely a type of Squig, but the Boar, well, that depends. Certainly originally, they were indigenous to the Ork’s original home world, and the Orks kept breeding them. But I think that should they return, it’s fairly possible to say that they’re Squigs, simply because they provide Orks with a beast of burden before they have mastered Bikes, in the same way that Squiggoths replace tanks and transports for primitive Orks.
Snotlings are an interesting case. Pretty much everything they do has subliminal implications, most of which have not actually been revealed. They are ineffably mysterious, after all, what can be said for a small green adolescent biped that occasionally turns into a mushroom with a face?
Snotlings’ main societal role is that of cultivator. Without Snotlings, it is questionable that Orks could remotely manage to cultivate fungus. It also seems like they have a fundamental role to play in the sporing process. The Anzion article, during the bits on sporing mentions their role in the sporing order:
“…followed quickly by the Snotlings who can start to prepare the area.”
(The Anzion Article, 3rd Edition Ork Codex, pg.47)
This is so understated, and barely explained, but it seems intrinsically linked to their roles as fungus cultivators. It seems rather likely that without Snotlings, you’d not actually get any Gretchin or Orks. You’d just get a fair amount of Snotlings and lots of Squigs.
Snotlings also have an interesting relationship with Squigs, whom they frolic with. They also, for reasons I’ll explain in the next series, can trap Daemons. Snotlings have the capacity to be the most interesting and fundamentally important Orkoid in the whole 40k Universe. If the sagely fluff is right, they most likely already are, we just don’t know it yet.
Finally, we have the Gretchin. “Ah, but” you say, “they’re just slaves that generally meet a sticky end. How on earth can a lowly slave manifest resonance?” because they’re not merely slaves. That ultimately explains how the Orks treat them, and how Ork society works. It’s a classical feudal system, and Orks, along with the other “lesser” Orkoids sit on the lowest peg. But that doesn’t make the influence those Orkoids have insignificant. In many ways it is far more important and impressive than the influence of the Orks.
Gretchin have the most interesting, and underestimated aspects of resonance. They can shift resonance in such an absolutely radical way, that it can actually do more for Gretchin than for any other Orkoid. It has a rather radical, if understated manifestation, which for the purposes of Gretchin has a fairly submissive, but absolutely massive impact upon all of Ork society. Just what is this manifestation?
Luck.
The greatest argument for Gretchin resonance is Makari, the luckiest Gretchin who ever lived. In 2nd Ed, that Grot had a 2+ unmodified (essentially invulnerable) save against any and all damage he received, for any reason. The only save that could never, ever, in any circumstances, be ignored. Woof.
It actually makes sense, really. Gretchin can prove themselves invaluable to their Ork masters, something that the Ork will never get again. The resonance takes that idea of their irreplaceable nature, and makes it a reality. Gretchin themselves become literally lucky mascots.
It doesn’t stop there, either. Gretchin have a fair amount of influence on resonance. Contrary to quite wide-ranging and incredibly wrong Ork player belief, Gretchin build most things in Ork Society, starting with Ork Society itself. Whilst the Orks are developing under the ground as spores, Gretchin will have sought out a moderately distant, but suitable site for an Ork Settlement, and built one by the time the Orks arrive.
It may get replaced by a bigger one once the Orks arrive, but what is likely is that this original settlement will become the Gretchin part of Ork society, where some of the most important aspects of Ork society will occur: trade and organisation. It is pretty likely that in this arena, Gretchin will once again be able to tap into resonance, in order to help them convince the Orks that the Gretchin wares are absolutely necessary to their lives and they simply must buy them with teef, and not beat up the Grot and take it anyway.
Grots are smart and resourceful enough to make trade work anyway, but it is unlikely that the whims of resonance are far away from any process in Ork society. So, you know what this means: it means Grots also have mechamorphic resonance, and like the other Orkoids, have inherited skills and knowledge, and part of that will include construction and engineering knowledge. Not quite so useless, or harmless, eh.
So we come full circle now. We come back to the point we arrived at in the beginning of this part of the series. Orkoids are virtually inseparable, their whole is as great as the sum of their parts, successfully steered by the wonders of their fictional superpower: psychic resonance. It could be easy to conclude that it is far too powerful, and it does too much, to the point of devaluing the influence of the whole Orkoid race.
But we’ve already seen this argument, the one I mentioned in Part 2, which suggests that Orks are imbeciles who can’t build anything. We now know how wrong this outlook is. It is quite simple, really. Resonance is not infallible, and it wouldn’t exist either if the Orks didn’t have the potential to awaken it. Gretchin have always been capable workers, Orks capable warriors, Squigs edible food, useful and tenacious beasts, and Snotlings, well, they’re the only ones that have truly changed, imbibing much of their original potential into the Orks, to the point that this whole species can actually tap into what the Brainboyz were, and what ultimately they all could be.
To undervalue Orkoids because of this influence is pretty pointless, because it doesn’t actually matter. Resonance is as fallible as the species it supports, and it is as ingrained and fundamental as every aspect of what makes them the coolest fictional faction ever created in 40k, and perhaps the whole universe of fiction itself.
There is of course, one final lesson to learn about resonance. Orkoid Resonance is a whimsical thing, and it is no shield from reality. It is merely natural selection on acid.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ratius wrote: Requesting a lock on this one - its pure discussion and wishlisting at this stage.
Clicking in every other day to see zero actual updates or news or pics is a bit tedious.....
I suggest this thread be moved to general by a mod or admin. There is some interesting discussion going on here I would ahte to end but yes... we haven't had any new information in over a month now.
Ratius wrote: Requesting a lock on this one - its pure discussion and wishlisting at this stage.
Clicking in every other day to see zero actual updates or news or pics is a bit tedious.....
You know don't you That you don't have to read this if you don't want? Why prevent others discuss on look at that discussion forum.
New Buggies and Trakks. If this release doesn’t include them, I’ll be seriously disappointed.
Meaningful Clan rules. Over and beyond what most races get. I’d prefer each Clan to have the sort of differences we see between Marine Chapters. Example? Evil Sunz should have fasta vehicles, but limited Walker access. Goffs should have wider access to ‘Ardboyz and incentives for infantry heavy, but lessened access to Bikes, Buggies and Trakks.
Give each clan a distinct set of build options.
Hell, go the whole hog and break a given army down into smaller Warbands, something along the lines of Dark Eldar. Give us the feel of how Ork Waaaghs are actually formed.
It's a shame that we don't appear to be getting a new plastic Kommado set. Even a combined Kommado/Tankbusta set would be good, but, no, we're getting Kill-Team and that features the existing minis.
After what they did with the Nobz, MANZ and especially the Flash Gits kits new Kommando/Tankbusta sets would have been great.
You know don't you That you don't have to read this if you don't want?
I read it, like many others because its an ork rumour thread. So I hope that there are rumours within it each time I check it. There are not.
Why prevent others discuss on look at that discussion forum.
Im not looking to prevent anyone from discussing but as lolman said this could well be moved to general discussion so those of us that see it there then know "oh hey, no new rumors - just discussion here" and we wont bother with it.
You know don't you That you don't have to read this if you don't want?
I read it, like many others because its an ork rumour thread. So I hope that there are rumours within it each time I check it. There are not.
Why prevent others discuss on look at that discussion forum.
Im not looking to prevent anyone from discussing but as lolman said this could well be moved to general discussion so those of us that see it there then know "oh hey, no new rumors - just discussion here" and we wont bother with it.
Agreed on all points. Can we rename the thread, lock it, or something? I like the discussion, but not with the lead that it's rumors.
If you don't want to read discussion and speculation related to rumours, why are you on a rumour forum. There are plenty of blog-style sites out there that just post an endless stream of rumours with no discussion of any kind required, what you want already exists, so how about you stop trying to widdle on everyone else's fun and check those.
Yodhrin wrote: If you don't want to read discussion and speculation related to rumours, why are you on a rumour forum. There are plenty of blog-style sites out there that just post an endless stream of rumours with no discussion of any kind required, what you want already exists, so how about you stop trying to widdle on everyone else's fun and check those.
Agreed. The discussion so far has been sparked by rumors, and therefore is germane.
Ah... the age old wasting an entire oage argueing among each other to do the one thing we were all complaining about and trying to stop... how easy we sway dakkadakka... how easy we sway....
Okay! I got a few rumours from untrustworthy sources we can discuss:
Did GW make the codex alongside the marine codex but have been putting it off for so long because they know it will get backlash and can't be bothered with it.
This is a genuine rumour i was sent that i didn't make up (this is not sarcasm, I'm being serious) that I personally do not believe. Prove me wrong or right!
lolman1c wrote: Ah... the age old wasting an entire oage argueing among each other to do the one thing we were all complaining about and trying to stop... how easy we sway dakkadakka... how easy we sway....
Okay! I got a few rumours from untrustworthy sources we can discuss:
Did GW make the codex alongside the marine codex but have been putting it off for so long because they know it will get backlash and can't be bothered with it.
This is a genuine rumour i was sent that i didn't make up (this is not sarcasm, I'm being serious) that I personally do not believe. Prove me wrong or right!
I wouldn't be shocked. Also, for those complaining about the lack of rumors in here.....welcome to 40k Orkz. We get the least amount of love from GW of any major faction. We have had 1 codex since 4th edition and it was so bad we wished we had the old 4th edition one back
I could potentially see Orks as the scapegoat for 4k with the devs sat around blaming us for all their financial problems through 6th edition but at the same time we didn't even have a codex in 5th and 6th so blaming us is like that abusive father blaming his kid for his alcohol problems. So this also makes me doubt this rumour. I mean they put out 1 bad codex for Orks in 10 years and they're already giving up? Come on! Granted it was the only codex for those 10 years.
Maybe... just maybe (if the rumour is true) the reason why so many ork players leav and why we buy on ebay is because the models on the store are 20 years old so we have 20 years worth of models... Ork boyz sell on ebay usually for about the same price they do in packet in you buy from a 15-20% website (I know it might seem like you get good deals but I've studied ebay boyz for a while now.... They're pretty expensive) dakkajets, planes etc, go for £40-80... the only thinsg that sell cheap are the buggies and deff dreads and stuff you get in the start collecting other than boyz. All the old models like deff koptas, weirboyz, etc... I mean a painted mek gun goes for £40 sometimesmso screw that... and the plstic warnoss from black reach. it seems all gw might need to do is just update the old models and Jobs a gud un!
lolman1c wrote: Ah... the age old wasting an entire oage argueing among each other to do the one thing we were all complaining about and trying to stop... how easy we sway dakkadakka... how easy we sway....
Okay! I got a few rumours from untrustworthy sources we can discuss:
Did GW make the codex alongside the marine codex but have been putting it off for so long because they know it will get backlash and can't be bothered with it.
This is a genuine rumour i was sent that i didn't make up (this is not sarcasm, I'm being serious) that I personally do not believe. Prove me wrong or right!
lolman1c wrote: Ah... the age old wasting an entire oage argueing among each other to do the one thing we were all complaining about and trying to stop... how easy we sway dakkadakka... how easy we sway....
Okay! I got a few rumours from untrustworthy sources we can discuss:
Did GW make the codex alongside the marine codex but have been putting it off for so long because they know it will get backlash and can't be bothered with it.
This is a genuine rumour i was sent that i didn't make up (this is not sarcasm, I'm being serious) that I personally do not believe. Prove me wrong or right!
Do you think GW cares about Ork player backlash?
Exsactly! I very much sales are impacted in anyway! If this was the case why did they bring out the nauts, stomoa and new flyer? Obviously sales were high enough to bring out these expensive kits.
Right nownon ebay btw, the bets I'm getting a NoS orks for is about £15 including post so at that point I'm already saving money going to my local game store and buying them for %15 off. The cheapest built is £8 and they're based weirdly and have problems so I, again, might aswell bulk buy for the %20 off from my local store.
lolman1c wrote: Ah... the age old wasting an entire oage argueing among each other to do the one thing we were all complaining about and trying to stop... how easy we sway dakkadakka... how easy we sway....
Okay! I got a few rumours from untrustworthy sources we can discuss:
Did GW make the codex alongside the marine codex but have been putting it off for so long because they know it will get backlash and can't be bothered with it.
This is a genuine rumour i was sent that i didn't make up (this is not sarcasm, I'm being serious) that I personally do not believe. Prove me wrong or right!
Do you think GW cares about Ork player backlash?
Exsactly! I very much sales are impacted in anyway! If this was the case why did they bring out the nauts, stomoa and new flyer? Obviously sales were high enough to bring out these expensive kits.
Right nownon ebay btw, the bets I'm getting a NoS orks for is about £15 including post so at that point I'm already saving money going to my local game store and buying them for %15 off. The cheapest built is £8 and they're based weirdly and have problems so I, again, might aswell bulk buy for the %20 off from my local store.
I can find Ork boyz on Ebay for $18 for 10 easy enough, which works out to slightly less then 15 pounds. But if you want to play the bid wars game instead of Buy it now, I generally get mobz of 10 boyz for anywhere from $8 to $14 depending on quality and what not. All off sprue of course.
Also, the reason orkz are cheap on ebay is because so many ork players keep quitting the game because of frustration from lack of support from GW, Its been literally over a decade since we had a good codex. And then you throw in 7th editions treatment of the Ork faction quickly followed by 8th edition giving us an index where only 2 types of units are worth taking and everything else is garbage? yeah.
I think that the Boyz and Nobz models have aged fairly well. I think they could probably do a better job, but I don't think the existing models look bad. I think that the Flash Gitz look a little better than Nobz, which is why I think they could make the Boyz look better, but the difference between Flash Gitz and Nobz is pretty small so I don't think new Boyz would look leaps and bounds better.
I think the Iron Jawz faction from AoS looks pretty good, but there's something just a bit off that I have a hard time describing. I still think they look good, but not any better than Orks and there's something about some of their faces that seems weird.
Savage Orruks from the Bonesplitterz faction I think look worse than 40k Orks. I wouldn't say I think they look bad, but to me they're definitely a step down from Boyz.
One thing I was discussing with some people was the rumor about them adding extra sprues to kits. If they did this to the Boyz we would probably end up with a $50 kit like Fire Warriors, but I think that it could potentially be worth it. The Fire Warriors kit has loads of extras, and I can see how Tau players might be a little miffed as they can only use some of them and end up with a lot of extras. As an Ork player I love having extras, as I can cut them up and make even more things out of them. I don't think they would need to add that many sprues to the Boyz kit to make it a Boyz/'Ard Boyz/Kommandoz/Tankbustas kit. There are already some torsos and heads that would work for 'Ard Boyz, and there are also already a rokkit launcha and some tankbusta bombs.
To me such a kit could definitely be worth $50, but I already have a bunch of Boyz. Some people thought this would be a terrible thing as it would increase the cost of Boyz significantly. I can see how that would be hard for a new player who didn't want to buy second hand models and didn't want to do any converting. If they released a better Get Starting box that could be one way of offsetting the increased cost.
lolman1c wrote: Ah... the age old wasting an entire oage argueing among each other to do the one thing we were all complaining about and trying to stop... how easy we sway dakkadakka... how easy we sway....
Okay! I got a few rumours from untrustworthy sources we can discuss:
Did GW make the codex alongside the marine codex but have been putting it off for so long because they know it will get backlash and can't be bothered with it.
This is a genuine rumour i was sent that i didn't make up (this is not sarcasm, I'm being serious) that I personally do not believe. Prove me wrong or right!
Do you think GW cares about Ork player backlash?
Exsactly! I very much sales are impacted in anyway! If this was the case why did they bring out the nauts, stomoa and new flyer? Obviously sales were high enough to bring out these expensive kits.
Right nownon ebay btw, the bets I'm getting a NoS orks for is about £15 including post so at that point I'm already saving money going to my local game store and buying them for %15 off. The cheapest built is £8 and they're based weirdly and have problems so I, again, might aswell bulk buy for the %20 off from my local store.
I can find Ork boyz on Ebay for $18 for 10 easy enough, which works out to slightly less then 15 pounds. But if you want to play the bid wars game instead of Buy it now, I generally get mobz of 10 boyz for anywhere from $8 to $14 depending on quality and what not. All off sprue of course.
Also, the reason orkz are cheap on ebay is because so many ork players keep quitting the game because of frustration from lack of support from GW, Its been literally over a decade since we had a good codex. And then you throw in 7th editions treatment of the Ork faction quickly followed by 8th edition giving us an index where only 2 types of units are worth taking and everything else is garbage? yeah.
Even more common are the typical AOBR+other box set style armies all over ebay. For 100-120€ you get - AOBR warboss - SAG mek or painboy (depending on which box was bought) - 20-40 boyz - 5-10 nobz - 2-3 koptaz - a trukk - a battlewagon - a deff dread or 3 kanz or both - bikes or gretchin or lootas - usually one or two additional boxes or characters
If I wasn't maxed out on most of these options, I would be buying them all day. If you can still use more battlewagons, kanz, koptas and nobz, hunt for these armies.
I am glad I have been on the sideline since 5th edition. Too many blown opportunities by GW. I hope they put it all out. After all they are a model company. The more they produce the more we will buy. It just needs to have excellent rules to go with the models. The clan specific sprue sounds good. If GW won't make the models someone else will just look at epic.
aracersss wrote: so much baseless bantering and little to none rumors out ... heck the thread even got a title swap ... how long before anything leaks out?
Every time someone complains about no rumours in this thread the Orks codex gets pushed back another week and we lose one of our new kits.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for the AoS orks... does anyome else think they're not painted 50to be as green as they used to be? Like the older orks from the old photos on GW store are all a vibrant apple and lime green with very contrasting colours but the more updated the range gets the less green and the more faded they get. More like a celery stick green. Maybe this is why the new orks don't feel like ork! They're losing their deep green!
lolman1c wrote: As for the AoS orks... does anyome else think they're not painted 50to be as green as they used to be? Like the older orks from the old photos on GW store are all a vibrant apple and lime green with very contrasting colours but the more updated the range gets the less green and the more faded they get. More like a celery stick green. Maybe this is why the new orks don't feel like ork! They're losing their deep green!
Yep - we've called the Maw-krusha a cabbage more than once.
aracersss wrote: so much baseless bantering and little to none rumors out ... heck the thread even got a title swap ... how long before anything leaks out?
Usually around your 60’s, but there are exercises one can do to strengthen the bowel muscles.
lolman1c wrote: As for the AoS orks... does anyome else think they're not painted 50to be as green as they used to be? Like the older orks from the old photos on GW store are all a vibrant apple and lime green with very contrasting colours but the more updated the range gets the less green and the more faded they get. More like a celery stick green. Maybe this is why the new orks don't feel like ork! They're losing their deep green!
Yep - we've called the Maw-krusha a cabbage more than once.
well I did the analysis for you! Turns of you were correct:
I think the Iron Jawz faction from AoS looks pretty good, but there's something just a bit off that I have a hard time describing. I still think they look good, but not any better than Orks and there's something about some of their faces that seems weird.
Ironjawz have different proportions than older orcs. They have more upright posture and relatively smaller heads. They look more real and less cartoony. I really wish we would get new 40K ors with such proportions, IMHO, they look much better.
I agree IronJaws look fantastic. Im thinking of using some as Meganobs (with a little conversion work), and possibly picking up the megaboss depending on if we get a new Warboss/Ghazzy model or not
lolman1c wrote: Ah... the age old wasting an entire oage argueing among each other to do the one thing we were all complaining about and trying to stop... how easy we sway dakkadakka... how easy we sway....
Okay! I got a few rumours from untrustworthy sources we can discuss:
Did GW make the codex alongside the marine codex but have been putting it off for so long because they know it will get backlash and can't be bothered with it.
This is a genuine rumour i was sent that i didn't make up (this is not sarcasm, I'm being serious) that I personally do not believe. Prove me wrong or right!
Do you think GW cares about Ork player backlash?
Exsactly! I very much sales are impacted in anyway! If this was the case why did they bring out the nauts, stomoa and new flyer? Obviously sales were high enough to bring out these expensive kits.
Right nownon ebay btw, the bets I'm getting a NoS orks for is about £15 including post so at that point I'm already saving money going to my local game store and buying them for %15 off. The cheapest built is £8 and they're based weirdly and have problems so I, again, might aswell bulk buy for the %20 off from my local store.
I can find Ork boyz on Ebay for $18 for 10 easy enough, which works out to slightly less then 15 pounds. But if you want to play the bid wars game instead of Buy it now, I generally get mobz of 10 boyz for anywhere from $8 to $14 depending on quality and what not. All off sprue of course.
Also, the reason orkz are cheap on ebay is because so many ork players keep quitting the game because of frustration from lack of support from GW, Its been literally over a decade since we had a good codex. And then you throw in 7th editions treatment of the Ork faction quickly followed by 8th edition giving us an index where only 2 types of units are worth taking and everything else is garbage? yeah.
Even more common are the typical AOBR+other box set style armies all over ebay.
For 100-120€ you get
- AOBR warboss
- SAG mek or painboy (depending on which box was bought)
- 20-40 boyz
- 5-10 nobz
- 2-3 koptaz
- a trukk
- a battlewagon
- a deff dread or 3 kanz or both
- bikes or gretchin or lootas
- usually one or two additional boxes or characters
If I wasn't maxed out on most of these options, I would be buying them all day. If you can still use more battlewagons, kanz, koptas and nobz, hunt for these armies.
Hell no! Screw the Ironjaws design! The whole lore point is that Orks are crunched over! I know you guys want a grim dark teenage fulled universe but can't we keep at least some of what made the old stuff great? I mean I would argue the ridged squareness of an Ork (see my article for comparisons) is what makes then unique from the Fantasy Orcs and what makes them stand out. It's an industrial unnatural look that makes them look engineerd and tougher (like a miner in northern England always hunched over). Maybe it's an design only people in Northern England will understand which is what the Orks are often directly referencing (this is an English products after all).i know it's weird but people where I came from actually speek and look like the Orks... They're greta for amlaugh down ta pub but theyd rip yah ed off if yah ever got in scruff with um.
As I said, the look like the working class British ( like gorillas. We're not ashamed of it cus we have the strength to go along with it ) But the whole point is they're not natural! They look different from what we normally see yet familiar enough to instantly understand what they are. Whether this was by accident or on purpose the 40k orks are a very iconic staple of 40k and making them more round and natural would just be going backwards rather than forwars with design.
Never mind the fatc a new design would be horrible alongside all the previous models... but nothings stopping you from conversations from the orcs.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here is a small analysis fro my recent post in general
Spoiler:
Look how the 40k Ork has more emphasis on muscle gain, a pointed nose and sharper features.
It goes against the stuff you would normally see regrading fantasy orcs that have more rounder down turned noses with more emphasis on the size of the mouth.
These kind of upstanding fantasy orcs are what the AoS Orcs reference
So, by making orcs rounder and more natural you're just making them fantasy orcs in space.
lolman1c wrote: As I said, the look like the working class British
I was recently in UK, I didn't see any people who looked like Orks...
But the whole point is they're not natural! They look different from what we normally see yet familiar enough to instantly understand what they are. Whether this was by accident or on purpose the 40k orks are a very iconic staple of 40k and making them more round and natural would just be going backwards rather than forwars with design.
They look awkward. And I don't mean the boxy armour, they can keep that, I talk about the basic physique.
Never mind the fatc a new design would be horrible alongside all the previous models... but nothings stopping you from conversations from the orcs.
Ironjwaz are nob-sized. If there was boy-sized orcs with similar proportions I would definitely convert a 40K force out of them.
lolman1c wrote: As I said, the look like the working class British
I was recently in UK, I didn't see any people who looked like Orks...
But the whole point is they're not natural! They look different from what we normally see yet familiar enough to instantly understand what they are. Whether this was by accident or on purpose the 40k orks are a very iconic staple of 40k and making them more round and natural would just be going backwards rather than forwars with design.
They look awkward. And I don't mean the boxy armour, they can keep that, I talk about the basic physique.
Never mind the fatc a new design would be horrible alongside all the previous models... but nothings stopping you from conversations from the orcs.
Ironjwaz are nob-sized. If there was boy-sized orcs with similar proportions I would definitely convert a 40K force out of them.
Where in the uk did you go? We don't all look the same...
This is all your opinion though like mine is all my opinion and I belive it doesn't look awkward and there is nothing you can say to co vert me and nothing I can say to convert you. I know I'm correct because I am correct in my mind.
@ lolman1c - Short and broad, I'll give you - but I've been up here in the grim North aal my life, and I've never seen anyone looking like a boxy Ork . Hive citites though - now that I can relate to...
As for designs, I think I'd like to see 50:50 - the larger and more evolved an Ork gets, the more upright - almost like a fungus plant blooming... So your 'Ard Boys are slightly more upright than Boyz, Nobz more again and then by the time we get to a Warlord or Prime Ork it's a mountain of lethal, fluid and unstoppable muscle.
Id like to see more "action" poses too. Looking at a lot of the IronJaws models they look like theyre yelling with their weapons in the air and are about to strike or charge. Current 40k boyz and nobz look like theyre just standing around holding weapons.
Warpig1815 wrote: @ lolman1c - Short and broad, I'll give you - but I've been up here in the grim North aal my life, and I've never seen anyone looking like a boxy Ork . Hive citites though - now that I can relate to...
As for designs, I think I'd like to see 50:50 - the larger and more evolved an Ork gets, the more upright - almost like a fungus plant blooming... So your 'Ard Boys are slightly more upright than Boyz, Nobz more again and then by the time we get to a Warlord or Prime Ork it's a mountain of lethal, fluid and unstoppable muscle.
We're short broad and a bit ugly... we also have rectangular faces and we're always hunched. That's what I mean. It's why I got myself an Asian partner, the eldar of the human world... kinda romatic when you think an Ork got with an Eldar.
Warpig1815 wrote: @ lolman1c - Short and broad, I'll give you - but I've been up here in the grim North aal my life, and I've never seen anyone looking like a boxy Ork . Hive citites though - now that I can relate to...
As for designs, I think I'd like to see 50:50 - the larger and more evolved an Ork gets, the more upright - almost like a fungus plant blooming... So your 'Ard Boys are slightly more upright than Boyz, Nobz more again and then by the time we get to a Warlord or Prime Ork it's a mountain of lethal, fluid and unstoppable muscle.
We're short broad and a bit ugly... we also have rectangular faces and we're always hunched. That's what I mean. It's why I got myself an Asian partner, the eldar of the human world... kinda romatic when you think an Ork got with an Eldar.
Oi watch your mouth, there's a fair few of us northerners on here!
Warpig1815 wrote: @ lolman1c - Short and broad, I'll give you - but I've been up here in the grim North aal my life, and I've never seen anyone looking like a boxy Ork . Hive citites though - now that I can relate to...
As for designs, I think I'd like to see 50:50 - the larger and more evolved an Ork gets, the more upright - almost like a fungus plant blooming... So your 'Ard Boys are slightly more upright than Boyz, Nobz more again and then by the time we get to a Warlord or Prime Ork it's a mountain of lethal, fluid and unstoppable muscle.
We're short broad and a bit ugly... we also have rectangular faces and we're always hunched. That's what I mean. It's why I got myself an Asian partner, the eldar of the human world... kinda romatic when you think an Ork got with an Eldar.
Oi watch your mouth, there's a fair few of us northerners on here!
Hey, we cannot help it... a few hundred years down the mines and in the army has an affect on my family. XD but, I never said I didn't like the look of orks. Anyway, I'm proud to be an Ork and I'm proud to play Orks and I'm proud Orks look the way they do! And I'm proud to be a 25 year old man who is 5'5 when I'm hunched (and I'm always hunched) just like an ork!
Also, in retrospect now that I read it "get myself an Asian partner" sounds a little like I bought an Asian girl online. I'd just like to make it clear I didn't specifically go out and find a partner based in race and i didn't buy anyone. We met at university in a society and had a lot of common interests so started dating.
Billagio wrote: Id like to see more "action" poses too. Looking at a lot of the IronJaws models they look like theyre yelling with their weapons in the air and are about to strike or charge. Current 40k boyz and nobz look like theyre just standing around holding weapons.
Kromlech's running and kneeling legs can help out a lot. I also have some "skyfire" shootas that point up, and some shootas that have their other hand not on the weapon.
I'm not a fan of Ironjawz stock. Mixing and matching can work though - Ironjawz heads on Boys bodies, Boys heads on Nob and Ironjawz bodies, Nob heads on Warboss bodies, all nudged just slightly up the torso, makes them look a whole lot more like the artwork in terms of proportions.
Action poses would be cool. I don't like the idea of more upright orks, I like the hunched looked. Maybe I'm just too used to hunched 40k orks, but when I see some AoS models I wonder why the orc is bending over backwards and it looks unnatural to me.
Speaking of which, the Ironjawz 'Ard Boyz and Bonesplitterz Savage Orruks are pretty much as hunched as 40k orks, but they have their arms lifted up over their heads giving them a more stretched-out look. I don't own any Ironjawz Brutes so I can't compare the physical models, and for me this sort of thing is hard to tell from pictures.
That said, I don't think the AoS Ironjawz look bad mixed in with 40k orks. The differences aren't that big, and it is more the rounded look of the armor that looks out of place to me. That should be pretty easy to fix by mixing in 40k bits.
What's this Orks are northern nonsense, they've been Millwall fans from the very start, Orky speech is cockney wiv fangs! Their most famous special character is named after Thatcher, and after Armageddon is most known for trying to wipe out the miners on Golgotha!
Having purchased a few AOS Orc/Orruks the reason they are so off putting is because of their faces.
I don't know how to describe it perfectly but to me they have bat-like features that just don't fit with our good old fashioned 40k ladz who are much less angular. I'd say our lads are a lot more human looking with a fair bit of character while the AOS things are way more bestial and are either angry or insane. Not funny insane like our boys. Just plain bat gak.
There's a definite visual distinction between the two and though I love many of the AOS models, the faces I do not like.
lolman1c wrote: Also, in retrospect now that I read it "get myself an Asian partner" sounds a little like I bought an Asian girl online. I'd just like to make it clear I didn't specifically go out and find a partner based in race and i didn't buy anyone. We met at university in a society and had a lot of common interests so started dating.
Regarding the style differences - I don't think the problem stems so much from design choices AoS vs 40k. The main problem is that most of the ork boy sculpts are allready severely dated while GW has improved their modelling madskills a lot in the last couple years. The sculpt styles aren't so much one proportion vs the other as old&ugly vs new&shiny. Almost the entire ork infantry range needs an overhaul.
Tastyfish wrote: What's this Orks are northern nonsense, they've been Millwall fans from the very start, Orky speech is cockney wiv fangs! Their most famous special character is named after Thatcher, and after Armageddon is most known for trying to wipe out the miners on Golgotha!
Dwarfs are the northern ones.
You talking about Ghazgkhull because I thought that was an urban myth. Chambers came out and just said it was a random name he made up with his rp group but could be cus they told him to say that. Oh... the good old days where characters used to come from a palce of love and joy, had actual back story. And everyone playing understood British humour so we didn't have to burn half of it.
As for the Northern thing I might be tainted because people genuinely speak like orks in my area growing up but could be a mix of a bunch of working class diologue. My grandad used to miss half his words like an ork and cross over similar sounding letters...
No joke, I genuinely have real dwarfs in my family. Like the real genetic disorder that makes a few people in my family like 3' tall.
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An Actual Englishman wrote: Having purchased a few AOS Orc/Orruks the reason they are so off putting is because of their faces.
I don't know how to describe it perfectly but to me they have bat-like features that just don't fit with our good old fashioned 40k ladz who are much less angular. I'd say our lads are a lot more human looking with a fair bit of character while the AOS things are way more bestial and are either angry or insane. Not funny insane like our boys. Just plain bat gak.
There's a definite visual distinction between the two and though I love many of the AOS models, the faces I do not like.
lolman1c wrote: Also, in retrospect now that I read it "get myself an Asian partner" sounds a little like I bought an Asian girl online. I'd just like to make it clear I didn't specifically go out and find a partner based in race and i didn't buy anyone. We met at university in a society and had a lot of common interests so started dating.
Hentai, desu?
She's a great cook. also the reason why my flag right now shows the vietnamese flag... cus I'm in vietnam.
Kosake wrote: Regarding the style differences - I don't think the problem stems so much from design choices AoS vs 40k. The main problem is that most of the ork boy sculpts are allready severely dated while GW has improved their modelling madskills a lot in the last couple years. The sculpt styles aren't so much one proportion vs the other as old&ugly vs new&shiny. Almost the entire ork infantry range needs an overhaul.
,
Absolutely, 100% disagree. The Ork boy and Nob kit are probably two of my favorite kits for their versatility and unique character. I have the new SAG mek and while I have nothing objectively against it, it does seem more "square" compared to the previous model. I'd rather them, expecially since anything new would probably lack a lot of the extra bitz and be more static. This isn't universal of the whole range (warbuggies/Deff koptas are ugly as sin), but the infantry model I have little to complain about (outside of failcast)
Kosake wrote: Regarding the style differences - I don't think the problem stems so much from design choices AoS vs 40k. The main problem is that most of the ork boy sculpts are allready severely dated while GW has improved their modelling madskills a lot in the last couple years. The sculpt styles aren't so much one proportion vs the other as old&ugly vs new&shiny. Almost the entire ork infantry range needs an overhaul.
But, err, most of the folk bringing up that issue seem to think it's the newer design that's less appealing. And AAEnglishman nails why for me - the new faces often look too bat-like, the "snouts" are too defined(though that specific issue arose before AoS), the features have moved around a bit in relation to each other and changed in relative proportion. That's not a case of the tech allowing them to realise the concept better or the sculptors being more skilled, it's a case of them changing the concept; most of the post-GorkaMorka Ork and Orc art that isn't part of the most recent material resembles the Nelson sculpts. Of course it's been done before, but that was a conscious design decision as well, GW could easily have produced multipart plastic Orks in the style of the 2nd Ed metals if they'd wanted to.
With the older Ork/Orc heads, I saw one or two duds, while with the new AoS style faces I find only a few gems in the whole range and even some of those need a bit of resculpting.
I think that the old ork models have aged so well for the same reason that heavily stylized videogames tend to age well. Games that do their best to look realistic often look bad as technology advances. Games that use more stylized, unrealistic art tend to have a timeless quality.
Orks have long been portrayed with oversized, chunky, brutish features. This look translated well to early plastic models, but also because Orks have never looked too human it tends not to bother our brains too much when they don't look quite right. Compare this to the early plastic IG, who tend to look pretty derpy because as they are humans we are more critical.
I think that some of the details on orks could be made sharper, and while it isn't necessary it wouldn't be a bad thing. Some of the teeth on the boyz faces and individual fingers could become more distinct, for instance. On the other hand, while the Savage Orruks are more detailed they actually look less organic and more plastic too me, but that could just be the paint job.
I also worry that, as Luke_Prowler mentioned, if they replace most of the kits it will be with mono-pose push-fit models.
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: I think that the old ork models have aged so well for the same reason that heavily stylized videogames tend to age well. Games that do their best to look realistic often look bad as technology advances. Games that use more stylized, unrealistic art tend to have a timeless quality.
Orks have long been portrayed with oversized, chunky, brutish features. This look translated well to early plastic models, but also because Orks have never looked too human it tends not to bother our brains too much when they don't look quite right. Compare this to the early plastic IG, who tend to look pretty derpy because as they are humans we are more critical.
I think that some of the details on orks could be made sharper, and while it isn't necessary it wouldn't be a bad thing. Some of the teeth on the boyz faces and individual fingers could become more distinct, for instance. On the other hand, while the Savage Orruks are more detailed they actually look less organic and more plastic too me, but that could just be the paint job.
I also worry that, as Luke_Prowler mentioned, if they replace most of the kits it will be with mono-pose push-fit models.
I bought a box for some GorkaMorka conversions - it's not just the paintjob, a lot of the muscles are actually fully angular shapes.
Warpig1815 wrote: @ lolman1c - Short and broad, I'll give you - but I've been up here in the grim North aal my life, and I've never seen anyone looking like a boxy Ork . Hive citites though - now that I can relate to...
As for designs, I think I'd like to see 50:50 - the larger and more evolved an Ork gets, the more upright - almost like a fungus plant blooming... So your 'Ard Boys are slightly more upright than Boyz, Nobz more again and then by the time we get to a Warlord or Prime Ork it's a mountain of lethal, fluid and unstoppable muscle.
We're short broad and a bit ugly... we also have rectangular faces and we're always hunched. That's what I mean. It's why I got myself an Asian partner, the eldar of the human world... kinda romatic when you think an Ork got with an Eldar.
Oi watch your mouth, there's a fair few of us northerners on here!
Hey, we cannot help it... a few hundred years down the mines and in the army has an affect on my family. XD but, I never said I didn't like the look of orks. Anyway, I'm proud to be an Ork and I'm proud to play Orks and I'm proud Orks look the way they do! And I'm proud to be a 25 year old man who is 5'5 when I'm hunched (and I'm always hunched) just like an ork!
Also, in retrospect now that I read it "get myself an Asian partner" sounds a little like I bought an Asian girl online. I'd just like to make it clear I didn't specifically go out and find a partner based in race and i didn't buy anyone. We met at university in a society and had a lot of common interests so started dating.
Ahhh - see us Geordies divvent get hunched. We're aal midgets anyhow! However, on the aggression level - we most definitely are on a par with the Orks
So... comming on over a month of no codex at all... any ork rumours or news? Seriously didn't see the point of GW announcing our codex then never talking about it ever again. We knew it was comming so it was kimda just a tease as we thought it would be sooner than later.
lolman1c wrote: So... comming on over a month of no codex at all... any ork rumours or news? Seriously didn't see the point of GW announcing our codex then never talking about it ever again. We knew it was comming so it was kimda just a tease as we thought it would be sooner than later.
GW make most of their announcements at events these days. There has not been a 40k preview event since the ork codex is announced. There may be something at Gencon, but the next big preview will be at Warhammerfest Europe in the middle of August. I can pretty much guarantee we will not hear anything official till those events.
You beat me to that facebook post... I was about to say "Oh look guys! Gw mentioned us on fac... oh wait.. no... it's just a post about Knights smashing orks into the ground...
If anyone wants to know (if they just built the killa kans like in the box) it took 825pts of killa kans to kill a 600+pts model. And they lost about 6-700 points in the process. GW! Showing factions weaknesses as part of their marketing since 2017!
Wait just a second here... I thought GW said they don't own that many orks... why do they have 13 killa kans then?
lolman1c wrote: Wait just a second here... I thought GW said they don't own that many orks... why do they have 13 killa kans then?
I think they just recycled the same 6 over and over...
Ahh... so couldn't even be bothered to grab 3 more boxes and oaint um up.
But no... really... they keep throwing them at him and he just swipes away untill they just bring on too many fo him to aim at... i don't get what this shows... that he can kill troops that cost less points but when you get more points of that troops it kills him? I thought this was basic game design?
"Before you start reading, please remember to get a nice big pinch of salt to take this with.
So I was in my local GW the other day and asked if they had any updates on Orks. The guy told me the codex will be out soonTM but it would be worth the wait because there is a hell of a lot of new models coming with it.
He said that anything in an old style box with the yellow background would be getting at least some updates if not a complete new model.
I said I would look forward to it, but still wouldn't change my old Warboss (sentimental old me) to which he replied that the new Warboss may change my mind as it was his personal favourite.
Whether GW staff have actually been given a heads up or whether he was just speculating I don't know, but its always fun to hope."
Gotta say, to make up for lack of Ork rumors, I've been diving head first nto an Ork Killteam instead. I recently made up an Ork Kommisar model with the capped head from the Ork Flyer model, and now it's fitting for him to lead Gretchen in a Killteam.
I also happen to have 20 Ork Boyz on 32mm bases that were shipped to me accidentally from an eBay order. We boyz is ready to Waaagh.
Second time we have heard good things about a new warboss model. Thats good at least. If we get replacements of models with the old box style, thats quite a lot of new models. Off the top of my head Deff dread, kans, boyz, lootas/burnas, nobs, trukk, BWs, stormboys, kommandos). I suspect that most of these wouldnt be actual new sculpts and more of a re-boxing if anything
doktor_g wrote: Agreed. One new model. One new sprue. Reboxed old sprues. mhalko's FLGS attendant likely not trusted with what appears to be a closely guarded secret.
Not my attendant. I found the post of the guy who spoke with his ge manager and just copy and paste it to here. It's closer to a rumor than the last 15 pages of this thread lol
aracersss wrote: anyone think orkz will get a small trukk like this one?
Spoiler:
... or was it always meant to be this the update?
Spoiler:
Not sure I completely follow, but I doubt that we'll be going back to smaller trukks. If there's a new buggy I guess it might look a bit like a small trukk, but probably not.
I was thinking about making a small trukk driven by a runtherd with grots for passengers, but that would be a utility vehicles for narrative games not something that I can see fulfilling a useful role in a normal game.
doktor_g wrote: Agreed. One new model. One new sprue. Reboxed old sprues. mhalko's FLGS attendant likely not trusted with what appears to be a closely guarded secret.
Not my attendant. I found the post of the guy who spoke with his ge manager and just copy and paste it to here. It's closer to a rumor than the last 15 pages of this thread lol
And that's why we're discussing it but I'd believe "I kmow a guy" too "my gw store manager said" anyday as it has become a bit of a meme.
Nightlord1987 wrote: Any reboxing is likely just to put the new 32mm bases inside. Currently everything is either 25mm or 40mm.
I'll probably begin hoarding adapters real soon.
Naah let them be. Unless you up your board size it means already overcrowded boards become even more crowded removing even more semblance of manouvers
Im already preparing my Ork Killteam on 32mm bases, and I'm just getting myself ready for the eventuality. If I'm specifically not change g bases for my own advantage, I'm modeling for advantage. I just can't abide by that. I'm an honest Ork
aracersss wrote: anyone think orkz will get a small trukk like this one?
Spoiler:
... or was it always meant to be this the update?
Spoiler:
Not sure I completely follow, but I doubt that we'll be going back to smaller trukks. If there's a new buggy I guess it might look a bit like a small trukk, but probably not.
I was thinking about making a small trukk driven by a runtherd with grots for passengers, but that would be a utility vehicles for narrative games not something that I can see fulfilling a useful role in a normal game.
The small trukk was 3rd/4th ed and replaced by the current box
so this popped out in today's KT article about its rules:
Worry not, Orks – an unmodified hit roll of a 6 is always a hit, regardless of cover, stealth fields, camo cloaks or what have you – so you’ll be able to solve any deficiencies in accuracy with maximum dakka. Or just Burnas.
... have a feeling this will translate to the new codex as well
aracersss wrote: so this popped out in today's KT article about its rules:
Worry not, Orks – an unmodified hit roll of a 6 is always a hit, regardless of cover, stealth fields, camo cloaks or what have you – so you’ll be able to solve any deficiencies in accuracy with maximum dakka. Or just Burnas.
... have a feeling this will translate to the new codex as well
It would be so satisfying for all those -2 to hit armies to not get their full buff against us because right now there's a lot we simply can't counter.
aracersss wrote: so this popped out in today's KT article about its rules:
Worry not, Orks – an unmodified hit roll of a 6 is always a hit, regardless of cover, stealth fields, camo cloaks or what have you – so you’ll be able to solve any deficiencies in accuracy with maximum dakka. Or just Burnas.
... have a feeling this will translate to the new codex as well
Maybe for some units, but I doubt it will be across the whole army--or if it is, it would have to be like the Ethereal rule on Nighthaunt.
Was more poking away at that podcast and the rumour source. As Chikout said, it's definitely possible they planned for Kill Team to be released later in the year but made the change several months ago. In saying that though, given how far in advance 
