Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Rumours about beakies... i know it isn't Orks but the topic of bikers is always an orky thing to think about. (remember boyz, not all orks use their feet to get into battle).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeglAYpbDzI

the "primaris will replace old marines" bit is something I don't see we'll see coming for awhile, a lotta the basic marine molds are actually pretty new, GW'll proably use both for a forseeable time.

My hunch is somewhat close to Kirioth's rumor. I think we'll see them gradually roll out new Primaris units here and there tied to new Primarchs, Campaign books and chapter-specific codexes.

I expect them to have some support for regular Marines in 40k for the next five years, and maybe more like ten. On the other hand I wouldn't be shocked if they came out with a new "vanilla" SM codex that was Primaris-only after releasing a few more kits. They might tell regular Marine players to just keep using the old codex plus some fixes in Chapter Approved. It might be years before a new vanilla codex though if they start putting out books for White Scars, Iron Hands, Black Templars and the like instead of one big book to cover them all.

The above is all pure speculation, but I could easily see it happening. One other thing that I could see happening, but I think is less likely is them coming out with "historical" campaign books and rule sets for using regular Marines in between the events of the Horus Heresy and the Fall of Cadia. They might gradually stop supporting regular Space Marines in regular 40k, but still sell the models and tell people they should use them to play games set during the Age of Apostasy, Badab War, Armageddon 2, etc. while "current" 40k is pretty much just Primaris. (I'm not saying this is what I want, just that it's something I could see happening.)

Historicals coul;d be kinda cool actually., I'd LOOOVE to see a Historical trilogy that covers each of the wars of armageddon, and perhaps even finds a way to tie them together. Wouldn't it be awesome if we found out the world had something that was almost a beacon drawing in the most blood thristy warriors in the galaxy?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Rumours about beakies... i know it isn't Orks but the topic of bikers is always an orky thing to think about. (remember boyz, not all orks use their feet to get into battle).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeglAYpbDzI

the "primaris will replace old marines" bit is something I don't see we'll see coming for awhile, a lotta the basic marine molds are actually pretty new, GW'll proably use both for a forseeable time.

My hunch is somewhat close to Kirioth's rumor. I think we'll see them gradually roll out new Primaris units here and there tied to new Primarchs, Campaign books and chapter-specific codexes.

I expect them to have some support for regular Marines in 40k for the next five years, and maybe more like ten. On the other hand I wouldn't be shocked if they came out with a new "vanilla" SM codex that was Primaris-only after releasing a few more kits. They might tell regular Marine players to just keep using the old codex plus some fixes in Chapter Approved. It might be years before a new vanilla codex though if they start putting out books for White Scars, Iron Hands, Black Templars and the like instead of one big book to cover them all.

The above is all pure speculation, but I could easily see it happening. One other thing that I could see happening, but I think is less likely is them coming out with "historical" campaign books and rule sets for using regular Marines in between the events of the Horus Heresy and the Fall of Cadia. They might gradually stop supporting regular Space Marines in regular 40k, but still sell the models and tell people they should use them to play games set during the Age of Apostasy, Badab War, Armageddon 2, etc. while "current" 40k is pretty much just Primaris. (I'm not saying this is what I want, just that it's something I could see happening.)

Historicals coul;d be kinda cool actually., I'd LOOOVE to see a Historical trilogy that covers each of the wars of armageddon, and perhaps even finds a way to tie them together. Wouldn't it be awesome if we found out the world had something that was almost a beacon drawing in the most blood thristy warriors in the galaxy?

Isnt it the ork homeworld?

 davou wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Rumours about beakies... i know it isn't Orks but the topic of bikers is always an orky thing to think about. (remember boyz, not all orks use their feet to get into battle).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeglAYpbDzI

the "primaris will replace old marines" bit is something I don't see we'll see coming for awhile, a lotta the basic marine molds are actually pretty new, GW'll proably use both for a forseeable time.

My hunch is somewhat close to Kirioth's rumor. I think we'll see them gradually roll out new Primaris units here and there tied to new Primarchs, Campaign books and chapter-specific codexes.

I expect them to have some support for regular Marines in 40k for the next five years, and maybe more like ten. On the other hand I wouldn't be shocked if they came out with a new "vanilla" SM codex that was Primaris-only after releasing a few more kits. They might tell regular Marine players to just keep using the old codex plus some fixes in Chapter Approved. It might be years before a new vanilla codex though if they start putting out books for White Scars, Iron Hands, Black Templars and the like instead of one big book to cover them all.

The above is all pure speculation, but I could easily see it happening. One other thing that I could see happening, but I think is less likely is them coming out with "historical" campaign books and rule sets for using regular Marines in between the events of the Horus Heresy and the Fall of Cadia. They might gradually stop supporting regular Space Marines in regular 40k, but still sell the models and tell people they should use them to play games set during the Age of Apostasy, Badab War, Armageddon 2, etc. while "current" 40k is pretty much just Primaris. (I'm not saying this is what I want, just that it's something I could see happening.)

Historicals coul;d be kinda cool actually., I'd LOOOVE to see a Historical trilogy that covers each of the wars of armageddon, and perhaps even finds a way to tie them together. Wouldn't it be awesome if we found out the world had something that was almost a beacon drawing in the most blood thristy warriors in the galaxy?

Isnt it the ork homeworld?

Maybe, it was Ulanor at one time, which was the center of the beast's empire at the Ork empire of the emperor's time. Weather or not it's the world the species orignated on (if the Orks ever orginated on any world) is an open question. But the world does seem to have a... signfcigance to the Orks, it also seems to have some appeal to Khorne, be intreasting to find out why.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
There's no current fluff of Orks falling to Chaos or to the effects of a Cult.There's a brief mention in the last GSC codex that hints at possible Orkoid assimilation, that's all. "Tuska Deamon-KILLA" as his name implies, is not, and has never been, a servant of Khorne (willingly at least). There's no other mentions of Chaos I know of and I have both 7th Ed codex and Ghazghkull supplement right here. Why would Tyranids make hybrid Orks as part of an ongoing conflict when they do not make hybrids of other races as part of an ongoing conflict? They feed off other races. At most they take the most successful aspects of a race and integrate it into their own as the hivemind sees fit. Orks are an almost limitless supply of food. If the hivemind figures out how to produce them, it no longer needs to fight and wage war for sustenance and can grow almost indefinitely.

Codex: Death Guard wrote:The Green Death
The infected Ork warbands invading the Ecclesiarchy world of Sanctia evince a terrible new barbarism. They fall upon the planet’s defenders and consume them bodily, devouring the living and the dead alike, as if compelled by a daemonic hunger. Bloating and swelling, the Orks become obese monstrosities that can move only at a snail’s pace. Puzzled by this strange reprieve, the Adepta Sororitas systematically purge the Orks with flame and bolter. It is then that Mortarion and the Death Guard of the 7th Plague Company make planetfall. The Daemon Primarch looms over the bodies of the Orks as he stalks to the front lines. At his passing, each greenskin bursts apart in a shower of foul fluids, and dozens of Nurglings spill out from their remains to follow their master. Sanctia falls to the Green Death within twenty hours of Mortarion’s arrival, and the plague spreads across the Ecclesiarchy-held system.

Codex: Orks (2008) wrote:With every new dawn upon the blood-world, Tuska and his Orks find themselves whole again. They fight their way across the gory swamps in an eternal cycle of battle and death, puppets oft he Lord of Battles until the end of time.

In regard to chaos orks, this is a simple case of your head-canon not matching the official fluff.

Well right now I'm making a chaos plague ork HQ. He is not an Ork that as fallen to chaos though. He jist beat the heck out of a lord of contagion and stole his armour and weapons. XD

To be fair, the LoC has probably one of the finest Big Choppas out there


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ork Stratagems from Killteam, maybe a peak at what's to come since most stratagems are copy&paster from their respective codices:

1 CP Krump 'Em!
+1 to strength for one fight phase.

2 CP Gnasher Squig
On a 4+, inflicts one mortal wound onto a model within 1" of one of your models

1 CP Dakka Dakka Dakka
Shoot again

2 CP Just a flesh wound
On a 4+ a model stays alive instead of dying (not sure how this translates to 40k)

2CP Grot Shield - we've seen this

2 CP Mek's special stikkbomb
One model can throw a stikkbomb as Grenade d3, Strength +1, Damage +1

Oh, and this awesome quote:

Right ladz, listen up. Da humies ’ave got a big shiny box an’ it’s powerin’ all their gubbinz. Da plan is, we’ze goin’ to kick da door in, give ’em all sum dakka, chuck rokkits about ’til da box blows up like Mugrot’s buggy in dat minefield, and bosh, job’s a good ’un! Any questions? Nah? Good, didn’t fink so… Let’s get stuck in den boyz! WAAAGH!’
- Boss Nob Gazrot Gitstompa just minutes before the infamous Meltdown Catastrophe of Generatorum Beta-2

Yes, that is a good qoute. Shows the ork having tacticsmwhile also being funny. Tbh, this tactic is pretty much (if not more) the same as most of the Imperiums tactics.

All stratagems are though. There are no more than 3-4 unique ones per codex.

 Jidmah wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
There's no current fluff of Orks falling to Chaos or to the effects of a Cult.There's a brief mention in the last GSC codex that hints at possible Orkoid assimilation, that's all. "Tuska Deamon-KILLA" as his name implies, is not, and has never been, a servant of Khorne (willingly at least). There's no other mentions of Chaos I know of and I have both 7th Ed codex and Ghazghkull supplement right here. Why would Tyranids make hybrid Orks as part of an ongoing conflict when they do not make hybrids of other races as part of an ongoing conflict? They feed off other races. At most they take the most successful aspects of a race and integrate it into their own as the hivemind sees fit. Orks are an almost limitless supply of food. If the hivemind figures out how to produce them, it no longer needs to fight and wage war for sustenance and can grow almost indefinitely.

Codex: Death Guard wrote:The Green Death
The infected Ork warbands invading the Ecclesiarchy world of Sanctia evince a terrible new barbarism. They fall upon the planet’s defenders and consume them bodily, devouring the living and the dead alike, as if compelled by a daemonic hunger. Bloating and swelling, the Orks become obese monstrosities that can move only at a snail’s pace. Puzzled by this strange reprieve, the Adepta Sororitas systematically purge the Orks with flame and bolter. It is then that Mortarion and the Death Guard of the 7th Plague Company make planetfall. The Daemon Primarch looms over the bodies of the Orks as he stalks to the front lines. At his passing, each greenskin bursts apart in a shower of foul fluids, and dozens of Nurglings spill out from their remains to follow their master. Sanctia falls to the Green Death within twenty hours of Mortarion’s arrival, and the plague spreads across the Ecclesiarchy-held system.

Codex: Orks (2008) wrote:With every new dawn upon the blood-world, Tuska and his Orks find themselves whole again. They fight their way across the gory swamps in an eternal cycle of battle and death, puppets oft he Lord of Battles until the end of time.

In regard to chaos orks, this is a simple case of your head-canon not matching the official fluff.

Tuska is obviously not a 'Chaos Ork'. He's a puppet by chance not through worship or want. It couldn't be more clear - Tuska Daemon-KILLA. If anything that story is an example of Khorne infected with Orkiness, not the other way around. So in that case my 'head canon' and the fluff are exactly the same.

Your Nurgle Orks from Death Guard codex aren't worshipping Nurgle either. They're infected. Again its not a choice. Anything can get ill, it doesn't make them a Nurgle fan all of a sudden.

I made a massive post about this responding to an earlier comment but didn't post it because its way off topic. If you want to discuss Chaos or any other hybrid Orks, I would suggest making a new thread.

Anyone also think that the cap on 6s to hit in kill team is another test to see how well it works in the ork codex. With the way obscured works in KT, orks will always be hitting on a 6+

Gork and mork are chaos gods, people tend to forget that, so Orks are completely and utterly tied to chaos... just not “that” chaos.

 Formosa wrote:
Gork and mork are chaos gods, people tend to forget that, so Orks are completely and utterly tied to chaos... just not “that” chaos.

What exactly do you mean when you say Gork and Mork are chaos gods? Do you mean they are manifestations of the beliefs of greenskins in the warp? In that sense, yes they are. They are not, however, Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh or Tzeentch which is what everyone means when they say "Chaos".

Again and for the final time, let's put this to bed for this thread. If people want to discuss Chaos Orks or Cult Orks or whatever make a new thread.

 lolman1c wrote:
So we could be looking at next month for any info. Or at the very least September. Hehe (dark humour joke ahead for those thinking I'm being depressing) what if gw just never talks about the Ork codex again. Like it jever comes out and we ask "when's the codex comming" and they either don't reply, tell us soon, tell us it's already out we just can't see it because they made the codex purple or say "what do you mean? What's an ork?"

Ironically I can see GW's facebook community relations idiots saying exactly that. After all the Bullcrap they piled on us so far I wouldn't doubt it. Now with that said it wouldn't be the rules, true information or anything serious, but yeah I can totally see them doing that.

Codex wise....as every week and month comes and goes I am slowly beginning to convince myself that Orktober is going to be a thing. Whether or not its a band-aid on a gaping chest wound or if its a seriously kitted and fully supported release is up for debate, but at this point I just don't see us getting a release in August and I really think Space Pups will get September with GSC and that we will get Orktober and be the last main faction to get a codex (SOB are not a main faction).

Meh, the ore time goes on the more I worry less. I get to the conclusion that in my head if it does come outnin October and is still not what I want ( a codex wuth lots of options in both style of army and unit equipment (don't want op, just fairly priced points)) then I'll just use my money somewhere else. Simple. I got my army so i won't quit 40k just won't pay for it anymore.

Bought a few bits and pieces and my local GW today, but no novels and the staffer asked, "no books today?" and I told him I was saving up for the Ork Codex and his reply was, "well, you've got a few months to wait for that."

Orktober being a possible month of new ork releases sounds like something GW would do and it's been quite a while since the orks took over White Dwarf so, I would love to see that again. I guess we'll see, eventually...

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
There's no current fluff of Orks falling to Chaos or to the effects of a Cult.There's a brief mention in the last GSC codex that hints at possible Orkoid assimilation, that's all. "Tuska Deamon-KILLA" as his name implies, is not, and has never been, a servant of Khorne (willingly at least). There's no other mentions of Chaos I know of and I have both 7th Ed codex and Ghazghkull supplement right here. Why would Tyranids make hybrid Orks as part of an ongoing conflict when they do not make hybrids of other races as part of an ongoing conflict? They feed off other races. At most they take the most successful aspects of a race and integrate it into their own as the hivemind sees fit. Orks are an almost limitless supply of food. If the hivemind figures out how to produce them, it no longer needs to fight and wage war for sustenance and can grow almost indefinitely.

Codex: Death Guard wrote:The Green Death
The infected Ork warbands invading the Ecclesiarchy world of Sanctia evince a terrible new barbarism. They fall upon the planet’s defenders and consume them bodily, devouring the living and the dead alike, as if compelled by a daemonic hunger. Bloating and swelling, the Orks become obese monstrosities that can move only at a snail’s pace. Puzzled by this strange reprieve, the Adepta Sororitas systematically purge the Orks with flame and bolter. It is then that Mortarion and the Death Guard of the 7th Plague Company make planetfall. The Daemon Primarch looms over the bodies of the Orks as he stalks to the front lines. At his passing, each greenskin bursts apart in a shower of foul fluids, and dozens of Nurglings spill out from their remains to follow their master. Sanctia falls to the Green Death within twenty hours of Mortarion’s arrival, and the plague spreads across the Ecclesiarchy-held system.

Codex: Orks (2008) wrote:With every new dawn upon the blood-world, Tuska and his Orks find themselves whole again. They fight their way across the gory swamps in an eternal cycle of battle and death, puppets oft he Lord of Battles until the end of time.

In regard to chaos orks, this is a simple case of your head-canon not matching the official fluff.

Tuska is obviously not a 'Chaos Ork'. He's a puppet by chance not through worship or want. It couldn't be more clear - Tuska Daemon-KILLA. If anything that story is an example of Khorne infected with Orkiness, not the other way around. So in that case my 'head canon' and the fluff are exactly the same.

Your Nurgle Orks from Death Guard codex aren't worshipping Nurgle either. They're infected. Again its not a choice. Anything can get ill, it doesn't make them a Nurgle fan all of a sudden.

I made a massive post about this responding to an earlier comment but didn't post it because its way off topic. If you want to discuss Chaos or any other hybrid Orks, I would suggest making a new thread.

In fairness many chaos followers follow chaos without even knowin it though.

SemperMortis wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
So we could be looking at next month for any info. Or at the very least September. Hehe (dark humour joke ahead for those thinking I'm being depressing) what if gw just never talks about the Ork codex again. Like it jever comes out and we ask "when's the codex comming" and they either don't reply, tell us soon, tell us it's already out we just can't see it because they made the codex purple or say "what do you mean? What's an ork?"

Ironically I can see GW's facebook community relations idiots saying exactly that. After all the Bullcrap they piled on us so far I wouldn't doubt it. Now with that said it wouldn't be the rules, true information or anything serious, but yeah I can totally see them doing that.

Codex wise....as every week and month comes and goes I am slowly beginning to convince myself that Orktober is going to be a thing. Whether or not its a band-aid on a gaping chest wound or if its a seriously kitted and fully supported release is up for debate, but at this point I just don't see us getting a release in August and I really think Space Pups will get September with GSC and that we will get Orktober and be the last main faction to get a codex (SOB are not a main faction).

If wolves come late august that would make longer gap than ever between announced codexes.

Reminds me how people were claiming knights comes on july/august with huge gap between announced codexes due to aos2. How did that prediction go?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Tuska is obviously not a 'Chaos Ork'. He's a puppet by chance not through worship or want. It couldn't be more clear - Tuska Daemon-KILLA. If anything that story is an example of Khorne infected with Orkiness, not the other way around. So in that case my 'head canon' and the fluff are exactly the same.

Your Nurgle Orks from Death Guard codex aren't worshipping Nurgle either. They're infected. Again its not a choice. Anything can get ill, it doesn't make them a Nurgle fan all of a sudden.

I made a massive post about this responding to an earlier comment but didn't post it because its way off topic. If you want to discuss Chaos or any other hybrid Orks, I would suggest making a new thread.

That's not how chaos works in 40k. You don't get to decide freely whether you join the club. Chaos tempts, tricks and deceives all races into their ranks all the time. You can even fall to chaos even while you are actively fighting it, if the daemons find a way in.
No matter how Tuska became a puppet of Khorne, he is in no way different than Angron. Angron is not whorshipping Khorne in any other way than killing lots and lots of stuff because he really enjoys killing stuff.

Plus you are hand-waving the direct counter-example to your claims in an 8th edition codex a little to quickly. The orks are clearly not just unknowingly carrying a disease, they are devouring their enemies alive and dead, compelled by daemonic hunger. Daemonic hunger comes from being touched by the warp, which makes them nurgle orks.
Then they start bloating and swelling when doing so, which exactly how nurgle's gifts manifest in those he favors. Those orks are clearly doing nurgle's bidding.

Hmmm Orktober. If it ends up to be that then that rumour about the 1 gw dev who aparntly said it was October last GW fest might end up being true.

Ignoring all the repeated off topic posts, who thinks that we might get a preview of some sort at Warhammer Fest in August?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/27/27th-july-guests-and-reveals-at-warhammer-fest-europegw-homepage-post-1/

If we get nothing I will be a sad Ork and I think we can at that point assume we're getting nothing.

Warhammer fest is clearly going to have some big previews as GW are setting it up as the big event of the mid-year (after the AOS 2.0 launch).

I'd hope to hear news about most of GW's product lines on some future things to come. Though AT is going to dominate with the new titan game.

With codex likely being within less than month yeah if no ork previews odds will be good no new models. That or it's one of the least prehyped miniature release in 8th ed

Worst case scenario in my mind: August comes and gw has major 40k previews. Beakies Primaris get a huge new range of toys.. i'm talking an entire armies worth of new unita. And their codex is announced (this is a genuine rumour). Orks get nothing and arn't even mentioned. This would kinda be a kick in the fa e to xenos and Ork players.

Best case scenario in mymmind: GW shows off new Ork hqs, biker hqs, new buggies. Previews ork codex and goes "it's comming out in a few week".

 lolman1c wrote:
Worst case scenario in my mind: August comes and gw has major 40k previews. Beakies Primaris get a huge new range of toys.. i'm talking an entire armies worth of new unita. And their codex is announced (this is a genuine rumour). Orks get nothing and arn't even mentioned. This would kinda be a kick in the fa e to xenos and Ork players.

Best case scenario in mymmind: GW shows off new Ork hqs, biker hqs, new buggies. Previews ork codex and goes "it's comming out in a few week".

Another option is simply a new Ork bike kit with the parts to make one of the Bikes an HQ, Much like what they did with pretty much all the custodes minis. I thought that worked quite nicely and would be eager to see that be something of a newish trend.

BrianDavion wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Worst case scenario in my mind: August comes and gw has major 40k previews. Beakies Primaris get a huge new range of toys.. i'm talking an entire armies worth of new unita. And their codex is announced (this is a genuine rumour). Orks get nothing and arn't even mentioned. This would kinda be a kick in the fa e to xenos and Ork players.

Best case scenario in mymmind: GW shows off new Ork hqs, biker hqs, new buggies. Previews ork codex and goes "it's comming out in a few week".

Another option is simply a new Ork bike kit with the parts to make one of the Bikes an HQ, Much like what they did with pretty much all the custodes minis. I thought that worked quite nicely and would be eager to see that be something of a newish trend.

This would work great for nob-sized HQs, like Big meks, Painboys and Weird boyz, but it wouldn't work for a Warboss- a Warboss is simply too big.

I think an ideal situation would be a separate Warboss on bike, with a Nob bikers kit with a Big mek and Painboy option. They already did something similar with the Meganobs. The Warboss could be a dual build with Wazdakka or something if they like.

 Haighus wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Worst case scenario in my mind: August comes and gw has major 40k previews. Beakies Primaris get a huge new range of toys.. i'm talking an entire armies worth of new unita. And their codex is announced (this is a genuine rumour). Orks get nothing and arn't even mentioned. This would kinda be a kick in the fa e to xenos and Ork players.

Best case scenario in mymmind: GW shows off new Ork hqs, biker hqs, new buggies. Previews ork codex and goes "it's comming out in a few week".

Another option is simply a new Ork bike kit with the parts to make one of the Bikes an HQ, Much like what they did with pretty much all the custodes minis. I thought that worked quite nicely and would be eager to see that be something of a newish trend.

This would work great for nob-sized HQs, like Big meks, Painboys and Weird boyz, but it wouldn't work for a Warboss- a Warboss is simply too big.

I think an ideal situation would be a separate Warboss on bike, with a Nob bikers kit with a Big mek and Painboy option. They already did something similar with the Meganobs. The Warboss could be a dual build with Wazdakka or something if they like.

They seem weirdly reluctant to do multi-build character kits, especially special characters. There's the Sammael and the new knight guy and that's about it as far as I know. Units which can include an optional character build (so not ones which had their unit leader changed to a character like grots and kastelans) are basically Scions and Custodes (although they did do it for every single custodes kit, so there may be some parts of the design team who are keener on the concept than others).

Virtually every ork kit has the potential for being a multi-build though.

Nob bikers could have painboys easily, big meks if they are willing to add some larger parts and even a warboss could be done with only a quarter sprue or so for the rider.
Alternatively, a warboss on bike could make Wazdakka as you said or even something crazy like a wartrakk.
Ghazgkhull could have an equally big warlord as his alternate. There are surely a few out there and if not one could be easily added without contradicting the lore. I'd expect him to be bigger than a standard mega-armour warboss, but with some clever design it might be possible to make them both from one kit. Otherwise you could have Nazdreg or some previously unknown new character as the MAWB alternative build.
A generic warboss could also make various special characters. Mad Dok Grotsnik could be about warboss sized, for example. Plenty of room to introduce new ones too.
Weirdboy could have a smaller character as an alternative build, possibly a nob with waaagh banner?
Vehicles obviously can be pretty varied. I was disappointed in the Gork/Morkanaut and its simple weapon swap; there is potential for much more inventiveness with parts changing function. You could even have a kit which builds multiple little vehicles or one big one, like two buggies or one mekboy speedster.
For infantry, you still have madboys, ardboyz and skarboyz plus the plastic versions of kommandos and tankbustas, most of which could be done as alternate builds to each other. Or you could easily invent a new class of boys...
The only thing I have a hard time picturing an alternative build for is the deffkopta, but even then you could have a special character deffkopta, split the existing unit into multiple ones or invent some crazy new thing.

 Gogsnik wrote:
Bought a few bits and pieces and my local GW today, but no novels and the staffer asked, "no books today?" and I told him I was saving up for the Ork Codex and his reply was, "well, you've got a few months to wait for that."

Orktober being a possible month of new ork releases sounds like something GW would do and it's been quite a while since the orks took over White Dwarf so, I would love to see that again. I guess we'll see, eventually...

What I worry about is that we're waiting all this time just for a lame pun. "Hey fans, it's Orktober! Here's your codex and datacards!"

I stick with idea that gw sticks to pattern it's held for year which means early september. And "local gw" is about as reliable source as you or me

 Larks wrote:

 Gogsnik wrote:
Bought a few bits and pieces and my local GW today, but no novels and the staffer asked, "no books today?" and I told him I was saving up for the Ork Codex and his reply was, "well, you've got a few months to wait for that."

Orktober being a possible month of new ork releases sounds like something GW would do and it's been quite a while since the orks took over White Dwarf so, I would love to see that again. I guess we'll see, eventually...

What I worry about is that we're waiting all this time just for a lame pun. "Hey fans, it's Orktober! Here's your codex and datacards!"

This would be grim and I think the final straw that breaks the camels back as far as 40k's confirmed for me.

Re a new Warboss on Bike model, as much as I'd loooove it, let's not forget that Zhadsnark exists and his model is absolutely beautiful. I can't see it, myself. I think it's much more likely we get a new buggy and trakks.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Worst case scenario in my mind: August comes and gw has major 40k previews. Beakies Primaris get a huge new range of toys.. i'm talking an entire armies worth of new unita. And their codex is announced (this is a genuine rumour). Orks get nothing and arn't even mentioned. This would kinda be a kick in the fa e to xenos and Ork players.

Best case scenario in mymmind: GW shows off new Ork hqs, biker hqs, new buggies. Previews ork codex and goes "it's comming out in a few week".

Another option is simply a new Ork bike kit with the parts to make one of the Bikes an HQ, Much like what they did with pretty much all the custodes minis. I thought that worked quite nicely and would be eager to see that be something of a newish trend.

This would work great for nob-sized HQs, like Big meks, Painboys and Weird boyz, but it wouldn't work for a Warboss- a Warboss is simply too big.

I think an ideal situation would be a separate Warboss on bike, with a Nob bikers kit with a Big mek and Painboy option. They already did something similar with the Meganobs. The Warboss could be a dual build with Wazdakka or something if they like.

They seem weirdly reluctant to do multi-build character kits, especially special characters. There's the Sammael and the new knight guy and that's about it as far as I know. Units which can include an optional character build (so not ones which had their unit leader changed to a character like grots and kastelans) are basically Scions and Custodes (although they did do it for every single custodes kit, so there may be some parts of the design team who are keener on the concept than others).

Virtually every ork kit has the potential for being a multi-build though.

Nob bikers could have painboys easily, big meks if they are willing to add some larger parts and even a warboss could be done with only a quarter sprue or so for the rider.
Alternatively, a warboss on bike could make Wazdakka as you said or even something crazy like a wartrakk.
Ghazgkhull could have an equally big warlord as his alternate. There are surely a few out there and if not one could be easily added without contradicting the lore. I'd expect him to be bigger than a standard mega-armour warboss, but with some clever design it might be possible to make them both from one kit. Otherwise you could have Nazdreg or some previously unknown new character as the MAWB alternative build.
A generic warboss could also make various special characters. Mad Dok Grotsnik could be about warboss sized, for example. Plenty of room to introduce new ones too.
Weirdboy could have a smaller character as an alternative build, possibly a nob with waaagh banner?
Vehicles obviously can be pretty varied. I was disappointed in the Gork/Morkanaut and its simple weapon swap; there is potential for much more inventiveness with parts changing function. You could even have a kit which builds multiple little vehicles or one big one, like two buggies or one mekboy speedster.
For infantry, you still have madboys, ardboyz and skarboyz plus the plastic versions of kommandos and tankbustas, most of which could be done as alternate builds to each other. Or you could easily invent a new class of boys...
The only thing I have a hard time picturing an alternative build for is the deffkopta, but even then you could have a special character deffkopta, split the existing unit into multiple ones or invent some crazy new thing.

Does the Deffkopta need to be a dual kit? The rules are already basically multi-option. A kit with options for rokkits, big shooters, buzzsaws, and bomms would basically be a dual-build kit, just within one unit entry.

In terms of characters in kits. We have seen plenty of generic characters in units- the Big mek in mega-armour in the Meganobz kit, the Tyranid Warrior Alpha prime in the Warriors kit, the Heralds in the Chaos Daemons chariot kits, to name a few. We have also seen plastic HQs with a named character dual build too- Space Wolf Dreadnought and Bjorn or the Murderfang guy, Skallagrim and the Blood Thirster, Fateweaver and the Lord of Change, the Hive Tyrant and the Swarmlord. Therefore I think it is entirely reasonable to anticipate dual-build HQs, although I would not be holding my breath.

 Larks wrote:

 Gogsnik wrote:
Bought a few bits and pieces and my local GW today, but no novels and the staffer asked, "no books today?" and I told him I was saving up for the Ork Codex and his reply was, "well, you've got a few months to wait for that."

Orktober being a possible month of new ork releases sounds like something GW would do and it's been quite a while since the orks took over White Dwarf so, I would love to see that again. I guess we'll see, eventually...

What I worry about is that we're waiting all this time just for a lame pun. "Hey fans, it's Orktober! Here's your codex and datacards!"

I am almost sure that its going to be an Orktober release, whether its the codex or new minis I don't know. But at this point we are going to be one of the last codex's written so it had better not be a rush job.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, is anyone else sad that our "Tactics" discussions basically finished about a year ago? "Take boyz, or don't compete in a tournament"

SemperMortis wrote:

Also, is anyone else sad that our "Tactics" discussions basically finished about a year ago? "Take boyz, or don't compete in a tournament"

Yep. I'm more annoyed it seems to always boil down to list and math discussions over what to actually do on the table.

Orks/Ork discussions were the only motivation I had for joining this forum.

 warhead01 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Also, is anyone else sad that our "Tactics" discussions basically finished about a year ago? "Take boyz, or don't compete in a tournament"

Yep. I'm more annoyed it seems to always boil down to list and math discussions over what to actually do on the table.

Orks/Ork discussions were the only motivation I had for joining this forum.

Again, that is due to the fact that our only real option is boyz, fast boyz and sneaky boyz....ohh and Mek gunz unless your opponent has a -1+ to hit. So what tactics are there? Hide your boyz from LOS, and then assault. theres positioning and what not to think about but that is all EXTREMELY linked to the actual make up of hte table in each game so its just to unpredictable.

 Larks wrote:

 Gogsnik wrote:
Bought a few bits and pieces and my local GW today, but no novels and the staffer asked, "no books today?" and I told him I was saving up for the Ork Codex and his reply was, "well, you've got a few months to wait for that."

Orktober being a possible month of new ork releases sounds like something GW would do and it's been quite a while since the orks took over White Dwarf so, I would love to see that again. I guess we'll see, eventually...

What I worry about is that we're waiting all this time just for a lame pun. "Hey fans, it's Orktober! Here's your codex and datacards!"

Hahah... oh man. Best troll is 40k history!

August WD is focused all on Adeptus Titanicus, perhaps we will get an Orktober codex only release.

If the September white dwarf isn't written entirely in Ork speech (like it was looted by orks) then I don't know what I'd do. XD probably move on with my life but I'd still be sad!

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Also, is anyone else sad that our "Tactics" discussions basically finished about a year ago? "Take boyz, or don't compete in a tournament"

Yep. I'm more annoyed it seems to always boil down to list and math discussions over what to actually do on the table.

Orks/Ork discussions were the only motivation I had for joining this forum.

Again, that is due to the fact that our only real option is boyz, fast boyz and sneaky boyz....ohh and Mek gunz unless your opponent has a -1+ to hit. So what tactics are there? Hide your boyz from LOS, and then assault. theres positioning and what not to think about but that is all EXTREMELY linked to the actual make up of hte table in each game so its just to unpredictable.

I tried several times in that thread to say why I think Meganobz can be really usefull. Even though they are expensive they can hurt some targets really good, and they can often take a beating and survive. But then the first reply is always some math hammerer saying why boyz and mek gunz are better always and then the discussion is over.

Yes, it makes me sad too (even if the math hammerers are probably correct). Orks have plenty of unit options and variety. They are just poorly balanced

 Larks wrote:
What I worry about is that we're waiting all this time just for a lame pun. "Hey fans, it's Orktober! Here's your codex and datacards!"

Well, I was just reading back through some of my old posts a few days ago and came across a 'heated' exchange I had about the possible future direction of the Necrons in light of how the Orks Codex reiterated the Rogue Trader Ork background, waaay back in 2011. My prediction pretty much came true.

With that context my gut feeling is that the new Codex will be 'good'. I can't really comment on rules and the like, I was only ever a casual gamer and I haven't played a game of 40K for about fifteen years. I buy the models, I buy the novels, I read the Codices but that doesn't give me the requisite judgement on 'good' rules, not that I would have that anyway, I only ever bought and played what I felt was cool and thematic for me.

But I don't think we will get a half-arsed Codex, I think it will be equal to the others that have already come out. Some may find that unreassuring!

In terms of miniatures I think we will get some Iron Jawz style orks which will be replacements for the old ork boyz in the same way that Primaris are replacements for the old marine models. The background for this change has existed for many years already. We know that the orks were pitted against a massive Tyranid hive fleet so there is one possible avenue, more likely, we also know that there are ork empires so vast as to be almost impenetrable to Imperial agents. These empires reputedly had ork boyz the size of nobs, nobs as big as warbosses and warbosses of a size unseen by the rest of the Imperium. They've been so focussed on fighting each other that they have never turned their attention outwards to the wider galaxy. Now they will have.

I think these orks will be more technologically and culturally sophisticated. They will therefore be both more of a threat to the Imperium and unlikely allies as well.

As well as primaris orks I think there will be some kind of bigger dread' model, a wheeled vehicle and probably bikers or cyboars or both. I imagine there will be a few new character models/whacky big gun artillery type stuff too.

All complete speculation but, that's my feeling on what we'll get and that's why GW have been keeping shtum about what they have planned. If the silence is actually to hide the fact they're just going to re-box what already exists, I would be genuinely surprised.

EDIT: spelling

Gitdakka wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Also, is anyone else sad that our "Tactics" discussions basically finished about a year ago? "Take boyz, or don't compete in a tournament"

Yep. I'm more annoyed it seems to always boil down to list and math discussions over what to actually do on the table.

Orks/Ork discussions were the only motivation I had for joining this forum.

Again, that is due to the fact that our only real option is boyz, fast boyz and sneaky boyz....ohh and Mek gunz unless your opponent has a -1+ to hit. So what tactics are there? Hide your boyz from LOS, and then assault. theres positioning and what not to think about but that is all EXTREMELY linked to the actual make up of hte table in each game so its just to unpredictable.

I tried several times in that thread to say why I think Meganobz can be really usefull. Even though they are expensive they can hurt some targets really good, and they can often take a beating and survive. But then the first reply is always some math hammerer saying why boyz and mek gunz are better always and then the discussion is over.

Yes, it makes me sad too (even if the math hammerers are probably correct). Orks have plenty of unit options and variety. They are just poorly balanced

Exactly. We have tons of different units, maybe not compared to Space Marines, but absolutely when compared to a lot of other codices. The problem is we are one of the worst internally balanced armies in the game. When the best criticism for an army list is "can you get rid of that for more boyz", there's a real problem. I would love to take meganobz, bikers, deffkoptas, battlewagons, deff dreads, any of the fun options we have, but doing so only serves to cripple yourself.

Of course, this has all been said before. Pretty much any critique of the ork index has been said and done, so it really doesn't serve much purpose to talk about it now, especially when it'll all be changing in a month or two (or three, or four, or who knows how long).

Honestly I think the problem is that the current design approach is 'Introduce complexity by breadth of choice' - but if the codex has bad internal balance there are no choices at all.

I'd much rather see some 'Introduce complexity by depth of decision' - which would make some of the less appealing units and options better in certain scenarios and edge cases.

Exsactly! I remember for the first few games in 8th I won every time because I brought Boyz... about 100+ of them. Nothing could stop them untill the codex came out for marines and the dude flattened me with gullfaceman man. After that I took trukks and wagons and killa kanz but kept losing. No matter what I did nothing couod beat the enemy that i was beating so easily with boyz. So it's super tempting to just bring mire hoyz every time. Luckily I'm the kinda guy who doesn't mind losing as long as the battlefield looks great but even I admit I want to have a fair fight once in a while. Anyway, as soon as most the codecies came out I brought boyz again once and got demolished. So even that tactic doesn't work anymore with all the toyz everyone has.

Orks were my first 40k army, which I started when I was in 7th grade 20 years ago. In all that time, I must say that GW's treatment of the Orks has been consistently inconsistent. That is to say, there isn't much predictability in their approach to Orks. They were part of the original pentarchy that the 40k universe centered on - Space Marines, imperial guard, eldar, chaos, and orks. They were the focus of their own dedicated spin-off game - Gorkamorka. Despite their popularity among the creators of 40k, the various iterations of their codex in regular 40k have fluctuated between true Orky creativeness and utterly uninspired. But, I will say that there are four things that give me hope about Orks in 8th edition:

1.) There has always been an obvious assumption that Ork players will play Orks no matter what...which, to a certain degree, is entirely true. However, I will say that GW has finally realized that the gaming component of 40k is important to its fan base. Hence, their radical alterations to 8th edition, the return of faq's, etc. are all evidence that they are trying to correct things. (to what degree they have succeeded is entirely up to you and besides the point)
2.) Their willingness to take risks by introducing niche factions (Genestealer cult) and bring back sisters of battle after so many years shows that they have become more responsive to the fan base and realized the financial value in doing so.
3.) The fact that long-time losers (imperial guard and tyranids) ended up with some of the best (gameplay-wise), internally balanced, and fluffy codices shows that their rules writers have learned from their experience with 8th edition thus far. In particular, the Dark Eldar codex has really impressed me. They took some chances by dividing Dark Eldar into 4 sub factions (Kabalite, Wych, H. Coven, and mercenaries), but the end product provides an incredible amount of variation in gameplay and list-building. From my experience, one can make both an entirely mono sub-faction army and a mixed army effective in game.
4.) The staggering financial success of 8th edition means that they have the resources to devote to Orks. Moreover, the army's popularity throughout the years means that they have an incentive to do so.

Anyways, I just wanted to inject some positive thoughts into the discussion while we all wait.

Your hope is genuinely an inspiration Grumble!

yeah, ill agree with what grumple said. dark eldar had a bad ruleset for a long time and now they are top tear.

orks could very well be on the good side of codex creep for once. it gets me excited to see what we have.

but often i cant keep this optimism. it seems to all be from the fact that gw has forgotten they announced our codex, and everything they've done recently has had nothing to do with the ork codex. it seems like they are actively trying to lower the hype for the codex.

"maybe the ork players wont be so mad with their bad codex if we dont try to get them excited for it, quickly, release more gsc minis!"

If anything, I'm expecting geedubz to nerf the ork codex just to make up for dark eldar being so strong.

I don't they're trying to lower the hype, they're just hyping something else. We've had AOS 2.0, Kill team and now adeptus Titanicus. with all those releases it seems a bit silly to focus on hyping codices that won't be out until afterwards

BrianDavion wrote:
I don't they're trying to lower the hype, they're just hyping something else. We've had AOS 2.0, Kill team and now adeptus Titanicus. with all those releases it seems a bit silly to focus on hyping codices that won't be out until afterwards

What sort of idiotic company announces a pair of codexes then focuses on other games, specialist or otherwise?

Seems like a very, VERY stupid thing to do unless the wait is worth it and for many that means new models as well as a strong rule set.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I don't they're trying to lower the hype, they're just hyping something else. We've had AOS 2.0, Kill team and now adeptus Titanicus. with all those releases it seems a bit silly to focus on hyping codices that won't be out until afterwards

What sort of idiotic company announces a pair of codexes then focuses on other games, specialist or otherwise?

Seems like a very, VERY stupid thing to do unless the wait is worth it and for many that means new models as well as a strong rule set.

If such a major release was on the way they would have profited from marketing it. I doubt we'll get anything but a codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As per powet creep it's gonna be one hell of a codex though, that I can believe

I think the problem for Orks is that the BS 5+ creates a hard skew which is difficult to balance all the shooting models. You can make a rule about always hitting on 6s and it won't change this much.

Take say a Warbuggy armed with a Twin Big Shoota. I think thats 43 points today after Chapter Approved.

This may be a weird way of looking at things but:
Its got inferior shooting to 4 Tau fire warriors. (28 points)
In melee its basically a boy. (6 points)
But its got T5 and 5 wounds and a 4+ save.

Now if you said "okay, we are going to balance it around the shooting" then its only worth 25-30 points.

But T5, W5, 4+ save on a 25 point model looks very good. That sort of stat line is probably worth 40~ points. Especially on a model which is fast and can therefore run around grabbing objectives.

Which leaves you at this impasse. Either you reduce the price of the model, to represent its current damage capability, which boosts its toughness, or you need to boost the damage output. Make a twin big shoota assault 10-12 or something.

The concern for GW is that if you nuke points too much across the board, you potentially create a monster. If you can take 120~ ork boys, and then stick 1000 points worth of competitive points efficient firepower on the table, you have something which could badly break the meta.

The problem is if they are not points efficient no one will use them.

Tyel wrote:


The concern for GW is that if you nuke points too much across the board, you potentially create a monster. If you can take 120~ ork boys, and then stick 1000 points worth of competitive points efficient firepower on the table, you have something which could badly break the meta.

The problem is if they are not points efficient no one will use them.

all good points, but many of those expensive units like warbuggies and battlewagons etc are all shooting focused units. no one wants to get their buggies stuck in unless they had an upgrade for a wrecking ball or something.

also toughness 5 with a 4up save for warbuggies is nothing compared to the very common anti armor weapons in 8th. making something as week as t5 cheaper is not going to destroy the meta.

balanceing around shooting sounds fine to me for units that only really shoot. killakans are a hybrid thats in a weird spot so they would be hard to balance. but most units have a clear way they work. meganobz deffdredds and gmorkanauts are melee focused, dakkajets,defkoptas, buggies and batwagons are all shooting based.

i am all for decreasing points across the board for all units that are not boyz. and if its op then gw can just tweek the points in chapter approved.

I dont want ork shooting to be points effcient; and comparing it with firewarriors is just silly....

I dont care if its not points efficient for orks to dakka; I just want it to be a viable option. As it stands, combi meganobz cant unload all thier shots and advance at the same time which seems silly.

An Actual Englishman wrote:What sort of idiotic company announces a pair of codexes then focuses on other games, specialist or otherwise?

Seems like a very, VERY stupid thing to do unless the wait is worth it and for many that means new models as well as a strong rule set.

Oh my. You are proving Kirby right.

 davou wrote:
I dont want ork shooting to be points effcient; and comparing it with firewarriors is just silly....

I dont care if its not points efficient for orks to dakka; I just want it to be a viable option. As it stands, combi meganobz cant unload all thier shots and advance at the same time which seems silly.

Agreed that the shooting need not be points efficient, but the shooting units should be. We should always pay a point or two for T4, and 2 melee attacks at S4 is a tactical's dream. But this only amount to a couple points per ork.

Beyond these 5 points or so, the shooting ability should be points efficient. Hence lootas at 12 points isn't unreasonable at all. Same with D3 burnas at 9.

I think someone suggested somewhere that Orks should get the Gretchin ability that 20+ orks gives your +1 to their BS and WS instead of the +1 attack. Then maybe the Waaagh Banner swaps out to the +1 attack. That way people have a reason to choose between a shoota horde and a choppa horde (and you get the added bonus of not having the game getting slogged down by 30+ more dice that don't do much when you already have 100+ attacks).

So a blog of 30 shootas have BS 4+ to hold down and defend a point but at the same time if you break them down to 19 boyz they go back to BS 5+
But cc hordes don't get a nerf as their previously 30+ attacks are swapped out for hitting on 2+ ( I use a waagh banner... and trust me.. with a S4 no ap weapon I would rather have more reliable attacks than wasted attacks.... sick of charging into a squad of 10 guardsman and only need to use a 1/3 of my attacks).

 lolman1c wrote:
I think someone suggested somewhere that Orks should get the Gretchin ability that 20+ orks gives your +1 to their BS and WS instead of the +1 attack. Then maybe the Waaagh Banner swaps out to the +1 attack. That way people have a reason to choose between a shoota horde and a choppa horde (and you get the added bonus of not having the game getting slogged down by 30+ more dice that don't do much when you already have 100+ attacks).

So a blog of 30 shootas have BS 4+ to hold down and defend a point but at the same time if you break them down to 19 boyz they go back to BS 5+
But cc hordes don't get a nerf as their previously 30+ attacks are swapped out for hitting on 2+ ( I use a waagh banner... and trust me.. with a S4 no ap weapon I would rather have more reliable attacks than wasted attacks.... sick of charging into a squad of 10 guardsman and only need to use a 1/3 of my attacks).

If this was implemented, I'd rather have it so a shootaboy mob gains +1 to BS from green tide, but does not get +1A.
Lots of things they could do for shooting, a lot of which were discussed. My biggest high hopes for codex:

- Dedicated orky shooting units are good enough to consider taking. More varied and viable ranged anti-armor, anti-air.
- SAG gets much stronger and has whacky stuff happenning on doubles. All Meks and Spanners have BS4+.
- Reworked kommandos to not to be just DS boys.
- D6 burnas
- Transport is worth taking and becomes better in melee, so melee upgrades become more viable. Battlewagon should be able to use all of it's weapons at once, each providing attacks.
- Point cost increase for PK, but it becomes much meaner. So a trukk squad of boys is at least somewhat threatening.
- Walker buff
- Ramshackle mechanic gets more developed, should be a 6+ for warbuggies, koptas, kanz, grot tanks and trukk, 5+ for BW and Deff Dred. Hard Case should improve a Ramshackle Roll by +1.
- Reasonable invul/fnp saves for Nobs, HQ and Bikes
- Flashgits get 3+ or 4+ save and assault guns. Guns show offs is rolled for each model, not a single D6 for the whole squad
- Explode on 2+ stratagem
- A use for grots (hopefully they'll have the brains to make a stratagem similar to grot shield from Kill Team)

...Damn,I wanted to list just a few things and ended up writing this huge list. If at least 50% of the above happens, then I'll be a happy ork.

I’d like komandos to have the OLD version of outflank, come on a random edge and without the 9” limit, think that alone would make them a viable unit.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 davou wrote:
I dont want ork shooting to be points effcient; and comparing it with firewarriors is just silly....

I dont care if its not points efficient for orks to dakka; I just want it to be a viable option. As it stands, combi meganobz cant unload all thier shots and advance at the same time which seems silly.

Agreed that the shooting need not be points efficient, but the shooting units should be. We should always pay a point or two for T4, and 2 melee attacks at S4 is a tactical's dream. But this only amount to a couple points per ork.

Beyond these 5 points or so, the shooting ability should be points efficient. Hence lootas at 12 points isn't unreasonable at all. Same with D3 burnas at 9.

Lootas at 12 would still be a bad unit. To be as efficient at shooting as KMK are, lootaz would have to go to 6-7 points, but since they are more mobile, have some CC ability and more range with less durability though, you could go up to about 9 ppm on lootas to make them a propper alternative to KMK.
Burnas at 9 would still be worthless since the unit isn't good at killing anything, no matter what you pay for them. d3 S4 AP0 hits and 2 S4 AP-2 attacks struggle to match the strength of boyz or nobz, so they need some sort of special rule or stratagem to make them stand out against other units that are both more survivable and do more damage.

You will not get any useful results when using MEQ as a point of reference to balance orks
1) Most MEQ are terrible units right now. When you make orks just as good as MEQ, you make them terrible.
2) MEQ exist in an entirely different context. They can have reliable, long range anti-tank weapons, they have many auras that buff shooting and they usually have ablative wounds in their squads and lose little to now firepower until you reach the special weapons.

If you want a unit to be good, use a similar to a unit as point of reference that already does work. For shooting orks this would be the KMK - a decent shooting unit but by no means OP. For CC units this would be either boyz/stormboyz or Thrakka, depending on whether you want quantity or quality.

Davor wrote:

An Actual Englishman wrote:What sort of idiotic company announces a pair of codexes then focuses on other games, specialist or otherwise?

Seems like a very, VERY stupid thing to do unless the wait is worth it and for many that means new models as well as a strong rule set.

Oh my. You are proving Kirby right.

How so?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Davor wrote:

An Actual Englishman wrote:What sort of idiotic company announces a pair of codexes then focuses on other games, specialist or otherwise?

Seems like a very, VERY stupid thing to do unless the wait is worth it and for many that means new models as well as a strong rule set.

Oh my. You are proving Kirby right.

How so?

One of our complaints about Games Workshop was GW never tells us what is going on. We as a community would ask for it. We say how come Privateer Press would release info for like 6 months or more ahead of time before being released. This was part of the Kirby era. I believe it was Kirby who tried to keep EVERYTHING a secret. So saying with the words you used, would seem like it is wrong what GW is doing now giving us information about future projects and Kirby was correct in what he did then.

I am not saying you are right or wrong. I like this new informartion GW is doing. Nice to know and not be kept in the dark. Yes I would like more information but I like what GW is doing now than what they did in the Kirby years.

 davou wrote:
I dont want ork shooting to be points effcient; and comparing it with firewarriors is just silly....

I dont care if its not points efficient for orks to dakka; I just want it to be a viable option. As it stands, combi meganobz cant unload all thier shots and advance at the same time which seems silly.

I do want Ork shooting to be points efficient. I would actually like to be able to take my shooting units to tournaments and not have the distinct feeling that I should have just taken more hordes or CC options. Something like 2/3rds of our codex is shooting stuff and if our shooting isn't points efficient then it will most likely stay on the sidelines for another year.

I would also love to see our speed options become viable and for that to happen they need to be viable at shooting. Look at the Warbike, it is literally no better at CC then a regular boy but at the moment it costs 4.5 times as much as a regular boy, what is it they are paying for? T5 is nice but not really that beneficial except vs T4 and T5 weapons, and with 4+ saves and no invuln or cover save anymore they aren't really durable even with 2 wounds, especially when you consider all the multi wound weapons that exist in the game, hell a Plasma Cannon Devestator squad can kill a decent sized warbiker squad every turn. So if not durability or CC ability what are they paying for? speed? Well yeah they are fast, but not 27pts fast maybe for shooting? and here is the crutch this unit has. It is a FAST, SHOOTING unit, not a Fast Assault unit. With 6 shots at S5 they sound decent but then you realize that with 5+ to hit and 18' range they will most likely only ever get 1 shooting phase and then they will be dead, a FULL 12 boy biker squad can put out 72 shots at S5, 24 will hit and against a SM tactical squad they will get 16 wounds and manage an amazing 5 dead marines YAY, unless they are in cover, then its about 2 All for the low low cost of 324pts. So 324pts managed to kill 65pts. My opinion on shooting is that it should take roughly 3x as many points to kill a model/unit. So 324pts of ork shooting should kill 108ps of Space Marines, or almost 10 Space Marines, not 5. So for ork shooting to be cost effective by my own matrix then they need literally TWICE as much Dakka. Now of course that isn't touching on other factors like range, durability, options, abilities that can buff shooting, auras and what not but by that rough matrix ork shooting is just piss poor.

Another way to look at it is through the eyes of unarguably the BEST Ork unit in 8th edition right now, ork boyz. Shoota Boyz are atrocious. At 18' range they have the shortest ranged main weapon of most factions, especially when you factor in their piss poor movement stats, even eldar with their Shuriken weapons can move faster to enhance that relatively short ranged weapon. 2 shots per gun isn't bad but then you remember that 5+ to hit means that on average a single shoota boy will hit 2 times in 3 game turns with a S4 shot. So going back to the Spess Marine model, it takes roughly 9 Boyz to guarantee a dead Space Marine each turn, 9 boyz = 18 shots, 6 hits, 3 wounds and against 3+ saves = 1 dead Marine. 9 Boyz clocks in at 54pts. So it takes 54pts of Ork boyz to kill a 13 pt Marine, and if that 13pt Marine is in cover its actually 108pts of ork shoota boyz to kill that Marine. So our BEST model isn't capable of reliably killing at the 3:1 ratio.

I would dearly like to be able to use a shooting ork list and not feel like I am going to lose every time.

 lolman1c wrote:
I think someone suggested somewhere that Orks should get the Gretchin ability that 20+ orks gives your +1 to their BS and WS instead of the +1 attack. Then maybe the Waaagh Banner swaps out to the +1 attack. That way people have a reason to choose between a shoota horde and a choppa horde (and you get the added bonus of not having the game getting slogged down by 30+ more dice that don't do much when you already have 100+ attacks).

Wow, that is a great suggestion that could actually work really well. It is a fluff fitting solution that helps problems with shooting while essentially keeping things close to the same if you stack with the banner, and if you don't it saves a little time on rolling all those extra attacks in exchange for the better chance to hit with both shooting and melee. You may average out to a few less hits in melee without the banner, but the improved shooting would be worth it in my opinion!

Davor wrote:

I am not saying you are right or wrong. I like this new informartion GW is doing. Nice to know and not be kept in the dark. Yes I would like more information but I like what GW is doing now than what they did in the Kirby years.

"Nice to know and not be kept in the dark"

There hasn't been any information on the Ork codex in almost two months.

Davor wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Davor wrote:

An Actual Englishman wrote:What sort of idiotic company announces a pair of codexes then focuses on other games, specialist or otherwise?

Seems like a very, VERY stupid thing to do unless the wait is worth it and for many that means new models as well as a strong rule set.

Oh my. You are proving Kirby right.

How so?

One of our complaints about Games Workshop was GW never tells us what is going on. We as a community would ask for it. We say how come Privateer Press would release info for like 6 months or more ahead of time before being released. This was part of the Kirby era. I believe it was Kirby who tried to keep EVERYTHING a secret. So saying with the words you used, would seem like it is wrong what GW is doing now giving us information about future projects and Kirby was correct in what he did then.

I am not saying you are right or wrong. I like this new informartion GW is doing. Nice to know and not be kept in the dark. Yes I would like more information but I like what GW is doing now than what they did in the Kirby years.

The Ork codex isn't a secret. We all knew it was comming because they said it would come out last year. If anything he is proving Kirby wrong because they are still keeping everything a secret until like 1 week before it comes out. Hell, they do this even with their big projects! Imagine if a big tripple A game company had a game coming out and they didn't even talk about it in detail until a month in advance?

I'm still of two minds about this method though. On the one hand I enjoy surprises (although I have a feeling I might not like the ork one) and on the other hand I feel it's very anti consumer (especially in the modern world with so much stuff to spend my money on).

Davor wrote:

One of our complaints about Games Workshop was GW never tells us what is going on. We as a community would ask for it. We say how come Privateer Press would release info for like 6 months or more ahead of time before being released. This was part of the Kirby era. I believe it was Kirby who tried to keep EVERYTHING a secret. So saying with the words you used, would seem like it is wrong what GW is doing now giving us information about future projects and Kirby was correct in what he did then.

I am not saying you are right or wrong. I like this new informartion GW is doing. Nice to know and not be kept in the dark. Yes I would like more information but I like what GW is doing now than what they did in the Kirby years.

GW haven't told us anything though? We are still kept in the dark and lied to. They said they'd get all major codexes out within a year of 8th and haven't. Also it isn't news that the Ork codex is one of the next 2, we're one of only 4 factions left.

We don't know if Orks or Space Wolves are next.
We don't know if there are going to be new models with the codex.
We don't know when it will release because it hasn't followed the same pattern as any other codex release.

These are all questions that the community has repeatedly asked GW.

I see very little change in terms of information now and information during the Kirby era. The primary difference is that GW now has an active online presence that keeps feeding people the same, bs line of 'soon' or makes a stupid joke when someone asks a question they refuse to answer. Certainly their marketing had improved. Their values and habits, unfortunately, are exactly the same.

Regardless you've missed the point of my first post that you originally responded to. GW built some hype when they announced Space Wolves and Ork codexes. Both sets of players breathed a sigh of relief thinking it wouldn't be long before they could play with all their toys. GW has gakked all over this hope by releasing other games and focusing on other things before the codexes. The majority of both sets of players are pissed and it is literally because of the actions of GW. It was a poor and stupid production decision.

It is starting to feel like they're having problems with the SW and Ork codices. First they miss the deadline on the all codices in a year, and now they either have to find release slots, or they're just stalling the releases. At first I thought the former, but I'm starting to think of may be the latter.

phillv85 wrote:
It is starting to feel like they're having problems with the SW and Ork codices. First they miss the deadline on the all codices in a year, and now they either have to find release slots, or they're just stalling the releases. At first I thought the former, but I'm starting to think of may be the latter.

Agreed, that seems to be the most logical explanation for the delay and lack of information.

MY gut feeling is that there's some financials at play here. could it be they're delaying those two codices so that they have some "proven performers" for a quarterly review?

It's possible, but the GW financial year started on the first of July, if they want to skip Q1 (which makes financial sense with AOS 2, Kill Team and potentially Adeptus Titanicus) it'll mean it will be at least 4 months since they said SW and Orkz are next. That's a big gap when they wanted them said and done in a year.

phillv85 wrote:
It's possible, but the GW financial year started on the first of July, if they want to skip Q1 (which makes financial sense with AOS 2, Kill Team and potentially Adeptus Titanicus) it'll mean it will be at least 4 months since they said SW and Orkz are next. That's a big gap when they wanted them said and done in a year.

Less then you might think. that second quarter would proably be september, and if Orks and Space Wolves came out GW could legitimately say that they kept to their promised schedule because Codex Space Marines was a september release. so from start toi finish they released all codices in a year. (and my gut says that GW was indeed thinking a year from Codex Space Marines, not from Dark Imperium)

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
It is starting to feel like they're having problems with the SW and Ork codices. First they miss the deadline on the all codices in a year, and now they either have to find release slots, or they're just stalling the releases. At first I thought the former, but I'm starting to think of may be the latter.

Agreed, that seems to be the most logical explanation for the delay and lack of information.

I wouldn't say it is the onlynone. More likely is they're moving products about based on what they think will sell more. For example, AoS was likely put half way through the year because it looks super good on their financial report. While Orks would not have given them the huge boom that the other sales do so was moved back to a quieter month.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
It's possible, but the GW financial year started on the first of July, if they want to skip Q1 (which makes financial sense with AOS 2, Kill Team and potentially Adeptus Titanicus) it'll mean it will be at least 4 months since they said SW and Orkz are next. That's a big gap when they wanted them said and done in a year.

Less then you might think. that second quarter would proably be september, and if Orks and Space Wolves came out GW could legitimately say that they kept to their promised schedule because Codex Space Marines was a september release. so from start toi finish they released all codices in a year. (and my gut says that GW was indeed thinking a year from Codex Space Marines, not from Dark Imperium)

I agree with you there. In order to find that year qoute you need to find the article that talks about it. I remember I found it ince but forget where it is.

Bad news everyone. Turns out people were correct and a lot of our stuff is becoming webstore exclusive only. Look at the Ork sections... we now don't have an official stand alone HQ sold in stores anymore. Also sad to see the deffdread become a store exclusive (unless this alread was but i swear I saw it in the store).

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000?N=1125463923+2983157288+1182037304&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AGB_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_GB_gw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+<%3D+1533114840000+and+product.endDate+>%3D+1533114840000%5D&view=all

I don't think Orks have been moved to a quiet month though, If they come out in september? thats invariable a busy time for GW. last year we got space marines in that month.

that said I think it's best to temper expectations. I predict Space Wolves will only get the useal "Primaris with upgrade sprues and a special Lt" Orks will proably get a handful of kits, good kits and ones they'll be glad to have but if they go in expecting an entire Ork line revamp, they'll be dissappointed.

A "big release" from GW in this day and age tends to be 4 kits and a character,

it's what Space Marines got more or less, it's what custodes got, it's what each of the marine factions technicly got, I'd expect around that tops for Orks.

In response to my last post aparntly the person who pmed me about the webstore exclusive stuff might be behind on info. I haven't been to a gw in 6 mo ths so I can't confirm but this stuff was taken off shelves in April aparntly.

 lolman1c wrote:
In response to my last post aparntly the person who pmed me about the webstore exclusive stuff might be behind on info. I haven't been to a gw in 6 mo ths so I can't confirm but this stuff was taken off shelves in April aparntly.

I was in my GW store a week or two ago and apparently "ALL Ork models are on 'last chance to buy" not most but ALL.Presumably they're reboxing for the codex, although if there are any Ork kits you partiuclarly like might be an idea to snag em now simply because Orks are a line that might see some old stuff getting replaced. I think space wolves are proably pretty safe

While I realise GW is once again a darling of the stock market I'd be surprised if the culture has become that focused on the share price.

I suspect the reality - unfortunately for people here - is that Ork and SW players (never mind GSC players, all 5 of them) are not big earners. Certainly not unless there are considerable model releases (i.e. 3-5 kits which can in themselves build a mini faction, like say a Speed Freaks list).

By contrast AOS 2, Kill Team, Titanicus etc probably are. They therefore take the limelight.

If the Codex is just pushed out with some points reductions it is fair to ask though why they have taken months to do put it out. (The reality I suspect is the lack of Ork players/thinkers at GW which has been the case for 10-15 years.)

Tyel wrote:
I suspect the reality - unfortunately for people here - is that Ork and SW players (never mind GSC players, all 5 of them) are not big earners.

Everything I've heard from people who are at least somewhat connected in GW and the amount of support they get suggests that SW are pretty big sellers. Bigger than DA and BA, probably bigger than most xenos ranges. But yeah, orks are not.

My entire time pkaying Orks I've never come across another Ork player... it's a sad fact of my area. However, I see a good 3 maybe 4 SW players... but this is just personal experience.

This is purely anecdotal, but there are lots of Ork players around here. By Ork players I mean people with Ork armies. Many of them don't bring Orks to competitive events.

I think a lot of the Ork range has aged well, but there is a huge amount of it on the used market, so I can see why it might not sell well for GW. Most of the newer kits have looked cool, but had really bad rules (Orkonauts, Flash Gitz, Wazbom) so I can see why people might only buy one of those but not muliple to build a list around. Mek Gunz look good and the KMK has good rules, but in that instance the kit itself is very expensive for what you get so I imagine a lot of people either don't run them or use 3rd party or scratch builds.

Seriously, I didn't even know the wazbom existed for like 2 years! And it's down to me never seeing anyone using one online. XD honestly though, it's a cool model I'd love to have but so many things ask for my money now adays it's hard to give it up for something i might not use.

the kitbashy nature of orks proably also doesn't help. When an Ork player goes to make a looted Lemen Russ, all GW sees is "we sold a Lemen Russ"

An Actual Englishman wrote: They said they'd get all major codexes out within a year of 8th and haven't. Also it isn't news that the Ork codex is one of the next 2, we're one of only 4 factions left.

Did GW say that? I only remember that about 10 codices would be updated in 2017 and they did that. I don't recall GW ever saying that all codices would be out. Not saying you are wrong just surprised to see it. Any chance you have a link to that? If GW did say that, I can see why you are upset. I am still waiting for Genestealer Cults.

Ork players are not uncommon - they’re actually a very popular army; the problem is, you can only pull them out and game with them so many times in 10 years, before you really begin to wonder if you’re even having fun - Orks haven’t been good since 3rd edition, and that’s a time ago.

And, “orks don’t get focus because their not big earners”; even if it’s not true, it’s a viscous circle - why buy an army that doesn’t get any care from the parent company, why give a product care if no-one is buying it?

Sadly though, it IS the GW method - gotta keep pushing this Imperials every release.

3rd edition was 18-20 years ago. Would you still be playing that army actively after all that time, if they never got any shreds of care? Always being he punching bag, “mindless horde”, “fun”/random army? The ork players ARE out there; I’m always seeing new threads showcasing new boys/conversions; heck, look at the number of posts in the Ork Tacticas compared to other armies - always the most.

Boyz is best.

I know a lot of people who have ork armies, the problem is that none of them play Orkz anymore because the army has been trash for about 8 years now.

Ork armies are gimmicky in the extreme. You want an army of walkers? Kan wall with dreadz/nauts and a stompa in support.

You want speedy units? Warbikers, Deff Koptas, Trukkz and stormboyz in a Speed Freakz list.

Want ALL OF THE DAKKA!?!!!! Lootas, Mek Gunz, and a host of other things.

The issue is that a lot of players bought a single play style of orkz and then when it became almost impossible to win or even have a chance of winning with that army they just sidelined it and picked up Marines or Eldar or Tau like everyone else. Hell I think my store has about 12 weekly players, 8 of which have ork armies, and we have at least 30 casual players who come in 1-2 times a month and at least some of them have casual ork armies.

Davor wrote:

An Actual Englishman wrote: They said they'd get all major codexes out within a year of 8th and haven't. Also it isn't news that the Ork codex is one of the next 2, we're one of only 4 factions left.

Did GW say that? I only remember that about 10 codices would be updated in 2017 and they did that. I don't recall GW ever saying that all codices would be out. Not saying you are wrong just surprised to see it. Any chance you have a link to that? If GW did say that, I can see why you are upset. I am still waiting for Genestealer Cults.

Yea, they said it. I don't have a link as I'm on phone and about to go sleep but a quick google search should help you locate when and where.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I suspect the reality - unfortunately for people here - is that Ork and SW players (never mind GSC players, all 5 of them) are not big earners.

Everything I've heard from people who are at least somewhat connected in GW and the amount of support they get suggests that SW are pretty big sellers. Bigger than DA and BA, probably bigger than most xenos ranges. But yeah, orks are not.

Yeah I guess you might be right on SW. Its pretty easy to buy some wolf riders and now some Wulfen and you are a lot of the way to a list.

Doesn't do anything for me, but I know a few SW players.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Davor wrote:

An Actual Englishman wrote: They said they'd get all major codexes out within a year of 8th and haven't. Also it isn't news that the Ork codex is one of the next 2, we're one of only 4 factions left.

Did GW say that? I only remember that about 10 codices would be updated in 2017 and they did that. I don't recall GW ever saying that all codices would be out. Not saying you are wrong just surprised to see it. Any chance you have a link to that? If GW did say that, I can see why you are upset. I am still waiting for Genestealer Cults.

Yea, they said it. I don't have a link as I'm on phone and about to go sleep but a quick google search should help you locate when and where.

pretty sure they never said this on the community page because i can;t find it.

Ok, so, i have a bit of news that i haven't seen mentioned anywhere in this thread yet.

Bear in mind this comes from groups of players that contain known play testers and i don't know how "recent" this is or not.

Essentially, i was at an event last weekend, and there were quiet chats about the Ork codex going on.

From what was said, there have been a few issues with the codex and the play testers have kicked it back to GW to be fixed.

Now, i'm not sure whether this will require a complete re-write, but, a significant part of it needs to change from what i believe.

Essentially, the codex is said to be perfect for open play and narrative player, however, it is a hot broken pile of "REALLY?!?" when it comes to matched play.

The biggest issue, was that Orks were able to infiltrate EVERYTHING. I'm not sure whether this was in the deployment phase or turn 1, but, essentially to cut a long story short, the play testers realised that having 2000 points worth of orks all within 9" of your opponents army turn 1 might be a little bit of an issue.

I'm not sure what the other issues are/were, if there were actually any, nor do i know what the impact on release the kick back will have - but i think it is 100% worth to get the info out there that there has been a delay because GW went from codex creep to codex creep with half a dozen space rockets strapped to the back.

No idea in regards to SW and GSC though.

Interesting... the problem is that I wouldn't know the full codex so wouldn't know if it is broken or it's just people who want to nerf Orks. I'll admit is something is broken and everything able to DS turn 1 does sound a little OP but would be awesome if it was turn 2. However, now you have be super concerned that GW goes "okay... so we made 1 ork tactic good... let's nerf the entire book into oblivion so it never works again!

But something perfect for a casual game? I super hope gw just fixes that 1 issue and not nerf everything if this rumour is true.

Kdash wrote:

The biggest issue, was that Orks were able to infiltrate EVERYTHING. I'm not sure whether this was in the deployment phase or turn 1, but, essentially to cut a long story short, the play testers realised that having 2000 points worth of orks all within 9" of your opponents army turn 1 might be a little bit of an issue.

My guess would be that was the result of an OP stratagem or clan tactic for Blood Axes.

Hmm, well, that kinda steps on Kommandos toes so it seems strange that you'd be able to Infiltrate regular boyz even for a Blood Axe army.

And gee, Orks being OP. Yea, let's stop the presses literally.

So I just wanted to bring in some speculation after staring too hard into the warp: with AoS units/models sneaking into 40k (oh hi Tzaangors and Mutalith Vortex Beast), I could see an arguement for Feral Orks making a return into the army again, which would also mean that GW wouldn't need to drop so much money on new kits since they already have some really darn good ones in AoS for Orks right now, we just need to sneak them over to 40k.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Hmm, well, that kinda steps on Kommandos toes so it seems strange that you'd be able to Infiltrate regular boyz even for a Blood Axe army.

That is why I think it was probably a stratagem costing CP so Kommandos would still have a use by saving the CP cost. However, being a horde army means Orks have plenty of access to CPs, so that would explain why they were able to do it to entire armies. Something like that definitely should have a unit maximum like some of the other similar stratagems already out there in order to avoid such

I can see why say 3 infiltrated units of Boyz, plus Kommandos and some potentially buffed Stormboyz (plus Da Jump) would be quite broken.

Enjoy 200~ Orks making relatively easy charges in turn 1.

Tyel wrote:
I can see why say 3 infiltrated units of Boyz, plus Kommandos and some potentially buffed Stormboyz (plus Da Jump) would be quite broken.

Enjoy 200~ Orks making relatively easy charges in turn 1.

Again, competitiveness could damage orks... XD but I geuss it's their job to find broken tactics...if this was in the game on launch then 1 dude would do it and the whole community would freak out about how orks are OP and orks would be nerfed into oblivion never to be touched again. Like Ig... tournaments players use soup and call it IG and suddenly everyone claims billy at the local club who has a fluffy cadian only force is OP and need sa nerf.

So when an Impeeial unit is deemed OP, the usual response is "Just wait for an FAQ/Chapter Approved.

Also, Infiltrating a whole army is already GSC territory m, but they're a new army with new kits so they're gonna get the best rules.

I just played against a DW army, where a single aggressor in with Intercessors ripped through 30 boyz per turn, and he only brought 2! Then when I'm finally in range to charge, he pops the Stratagem to completely neuter the charge. My opponent felt so bad, he let me bring units back on the board. People keep saying Orks can't deal with knights, but a 30 pt Aggressor is more than enough trouble for us.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: just discovered my opponent was playing autostorm gauntlets wrong, giving then 24 shots when stationary.

Stygies VIII has a a deep strike stratagem that can be used over and over (of course at least half the army has to be on the board at the start of the game, so there is a limit). It's true that orks have more good choppy units than AdMech, but AdMech has some good close range shooting.

I can see it being too powerful with orks against certain armies, so it might make sense to make it a more limited stratagem like Tallarn or Eldar get.

I watched a video of Krogskulls Boyz kill team unboxing/review by Too Many Metal Men (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dv0kQpa7FY) because I wanted to see what the unique Ork kill team stratagems are, because GW thought it was a good idea not to include everything in the big rule book.

Anyways, in the comment section of the video the creator states: I've been told by someone at HQ to expect new, bigger boyz, more like Ironjawz, along with more vehicles. Basically the Ork range is getting a substantial update as some of it is pretty old.

Obviously this is just a rumour and I have no connection to this youtube channel whatsoever, is his stuff reliable? Does anybody know? I could sure use some good news on the ork front right about now

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Stygies VIII has a a deep strike stratagem that can be used over and over (of course at least half the army has to be on the board at the start of the game, so there is a limit). It's true that orks have more good choppy units than AdMech, but AdMech has some good close range shooting.

I can see it being too powerful with orks against certain armies, so it might make sense to make it a more limited stratagem like Tallarn or Eldar get.

I think the Tallarn one lets you put 3 units in reserve (for 3 CP), so its limited and not at the same time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:
I watched a video of Krogskulls Boyz kill team unboxing/review by Too Many Metal Men (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dv0kQpa7FY) because I wanted to see what the unique Ork kill team stratagems are, because GW thought it was a good idea not to include everything in the big rule book.

Anyways, in the comment section of the video the creator states: I've been told by someone at HQ to expect new, bigger boyz, more like Ironjawz, along with more vehicles. Basically the Ork range is getting a substantial update as some of it is pretty old.

Obviously this is just a rumour and I have no connection to this youtube channel whatsoever, is his stuff reliable? Does anybody know? I could sure use some good news on the ork front right about now

I dont know how reliable he is, but im hoping that hes right. I dont know how I feel abot bigger boys but bigger and updated nob models would be nice imo. This isnt the first time we have heard rumors of orks getting a revamped line, im wondering if there is some validity to it or if its just people parroting the same rumor. Also, they way he talks about it sounds like its going to happen "later in the year". That sounds like either the codex is still a few months out or there will be a re release of some of our model line separate from the codex release

Anything that makes me feel like I wasted my money on all my boyz I dislike. I know people tell me that I can still use them but you gotta admit it would hurt you a little if GW brought out a new line that will (over the next 10 years) completely replace the old stuff until it's like you're bringing rogue trader models and everyone in the store looks at you funny (this happens to make when I brought my older models. XD ).

Unless, that is, the new models look like Orks! I mean real Orks! Orks I'd want to own! I fear GW will make them more rounded like Orcs rather than keep their rugged tecky boxy shape. Anyway, if you wanna go into that argument in depth just look about 10 pages back.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
So when an Impeeial unit is deemed OP, the usual response is "Just wait for an FAQ/Chapter Approved.

Also, Infiltrating a whole army is already GSC territory m, but they're a new army with new kits so they're gonna get the best rules.

I just played against a DW army, where a single aggressor in with Intercessors ripped through 30 boyz per turn, and he only brought 2! Then when I'm finally in range to charge, he pops the Stratagem to completely neuter the charge. My opponent felt so bad, he let me bring units back on the board. People keep saying Orks can't deal with knights, but a 30 pt Aggressor is more than enough trouble for us.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: just discovered my opponent was playing autostorm gauntlets wrong, giving then 24 shots when stationary.

ok first off, agressors are just a hard counter for melee hoards. by and large they're not considered that great, they just happen to hard counter the "wall o' Boyz"

moving on, just because play testers (incidently I find it doubtful they're still play testing Orks now, assuming even an October release play testing would be done by now) subject something as a issue doesn't mean it'll be fixed. Sometimes a play tester will bring some data back and say "we don't like this because of XYZ" and the devs response will be "yeah but thats ok we're gonna not make the changes because of ABC"

I mean every army has gone through it for the most part, getting updated models is not a bad thing. I’d argue few people will want to play an army that never gets updated models, especially when all the other armies get new sculpts from time to time.

I do agree that I dont want to buy 200 new models, but unless the new ones are AMAZING I wouldnt anyway ill just keep using my old boys. Tbh I probably wouldnt have 200 boys in the first place if it wasnt for AOBR

 Billagio wrote:
I mean every army has gone through it for the most part, getting updated models is not a bad thing. I’d argue few people will want to play an army that never gets updated models, especially when all the other armies get new sculpts from time to time.

I do agree that I dont want to buy 200 new models, but unless the new ones are AMAZING I wouldnt anyway ill just keep using my old boys. Tbh I probably wouldnt have 200 boys in the first place if it wasnt for AOBR

Luckly you won't have to, GW's ALWAYS maintained a "you can use your old stuff" philophosy. that said people tend to slowly shift to new because the new looks so much better

BrianDavion wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
I mean every army has gone through it for the most part, getting updated models is not a bad thing. I’d argue few people will want to play an army that never gets updated models, especially when all the other armies get new sculpts from time to time.

I do agree that I dont want to buy 200 new models, but unless the new ones are AMAZING I wouldnt anyway ill just keep using my old boys. Tbh I probably wouldnt have 200 boys in the first place if it wasnt for AOBR

Luckly you won't have to, GW's ALWAYS maintained a "you can use your old stuff" philophosy. that said people tend to slowly shift to new because the new looks so much better

Oh for sure, I was just pointing out to lolman that getting new models is almost never a bad thing, if anything its something every army needs

 Billagio wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
I mean every army has gone through it for the most part, getting updated models is not a bad thing. I’d argue few people will want to play an army that never gets updated models, especially when all the other armies get new sculpts from time to time.

I do agree that I dont want to buy 200 new models, but unless the new ones are AMAZING I wouldnt anyway ill just keep using my old boys. Tbh I probably wouldnt have 200 boys in the first place if it wasnt for AOBR

Luckly you won't have to, GW's ALWAYS maintained a "you can use your old stuff" philophosy. that said people tend to slowly shift to new because the new looks so much better

Oh for sure, I was just pointing out to lolman that getting new models is almost never a bad thing, if anything its something every army needs

yup meanwhile there's little if any downside to boot.

Kdash wrote:
Ok, so, i have a bit of news that i haven't seen mentioned anywhere in this thread yet.

Bear in mind this comes from groups of players that contain known play testers and i don't know how "recent" this is or not.

Essentially, i was at an event last weekend, and there were quiet chats about the Ork codex going on.

From what was said, there have been a few issues with the codex and the play testers have kicked it back to GW to be fixed.

Now, i'm not sure whether this will require a complete re-write, but, a significant part of it needs to change from what i believe.

Essentially, the codex is said to be perfect for open play and narrative player, however, it is a hot broken pile of "REALLY?!?" when it comes to matched play.

The biggest issue, was that Orks were able to infiltrate EVERYTHING. I'm not sure whether this was in the deployment phase or turn 1, but, essentially to cut a long story short, the play testers realised that having 2000 points worth of orks all within 9" of your opponents army turn 1 might be a little bit of an issue.

I'm not sure what the other issues are/were, if there were actually any, nor do i know what the impact on release the kick back will have - but i think it is 100% worth to get the info out there that there has been a delay because GW went from codex creep to codex creep with half a dozen space rockets strapped to the back.

No idea in regards to SW and GSC though.

I'm just gonna drop the same response I posted in the other thread to this post here;

Sounds like bs to me.

A few things to consider -

1. I don't think GW have ever made Orks broken good.
2. I can't see the playtesters having such an impact on release schedules.
3. Many other codexes have released with totally broken things that were not fixed prior to release.
4. I could not imagine any circumstance where GW allowed an entire Ork army to infiltrate/deep strike/forward deploy turn one. It would render certain units completely useless and redundant.
5. Its not really an Orkish thing, much more GSC.

This feels to me like some hard trolling. 'Orks were strong but are preemptively nerfed lol', doesn't sound legit at all.

It will become an urban legend shared amongst the Skar-boyz and the Yoofs. Da Greatest Kodex (almost) eva written by Gork (or possibly Mork) 'Imself! A book so powerful, forces from outside the known universe had to alter history completely in ways only an Eldar can dream of!

Beings known as "The Testers". And they scared of the Orkzes. They know we will crump Da Universe flat!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You know what I would really like to see?

Orks get the Made to Order treatment for somne of the metal Grots from Gorkamorka! I would totally buy in on some AK wielding gretchin.

I could see them at least re-boxing our kits, which would make sense with all the "last chance to buy" ork kits we are seeing. Most of them are still with the yellow/warzone background and theyre trying to move everything over to the uniform blue background. Good opportunity to get new sculpts, but doesnt necessarily mean that.

https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/1905700039750626/?type=3&theater

been noticing this guy on the main post on the 40k facebook page (jerome swensen). hes been posting everyday for about a week asking if there's going to be any ork related news coming up. so far has only gotten a single non answer from the facebook guys (said he would keep posting until gw posts an article or something).(if you want to look at all of the the guys posts youll have to make sure the facebook comments are set to "new" and then you can see his comments going back about a week).

so, what you guys think? is it worth hounding the Facebook guys with constant questions? would it be worth while for us to try joining in?

personally im not sure of what to think of this. this is on the facebook page so no telling if these questions will ever be relayed to GW proper, but its much more public and easier for the community to see there are many who are wanting to know about the greenskinz. in the past many here on dakka dakka have said to "email GW" or something like that, maybe instead of emails that can easily be mass trashed we can try flooding the main facebook post with our detest of "why no ork news" (of course if we do this it would be best to be civil). who knows, maybe gw might cave in and say something.

I've got mixed feelings. While I think that GW has messed up with their complete silence on what's coming for orks, I also don't know if a campaign of annoying them is a good thing to do. I wouldn't feel bad for them (maybe a little bit for the people stuck with managing the Facebook page) if that's what they wound up with, as I think they've brought it on themselves, but I also don't think I'd participate or encourage it.

If people keep things good-natured and funny that's cool. If it's a bunch of angry shouting then it's not so cool and probably counter-productive.

I think pushing too hard could definatly be counter productive, the best thing to do is not ask questions but to simply talk passionatly. link pics of armies etc and demonstrate a passion. you want if word does get back to the GW brass from their facebook folks for the word to be "Man Ork players are awesome, they have such a passion and love for the game, so many of their conversions are imaginative" etc. not "ohh god Orks.. their players are such a whiny and entiled group of children"

I don't play Orks but I LOOOVE the people who do because their conversions are awesome. Orks are IMHO the best conversion artists in 40k, (chaos is the only faction that comes close)
If Ork players wanna REAAALY show their love for Orks on Facebook? a campaign to show off your favorite "Kuztom Orked up Konversion" would proably be a great idea.

BrianDavion wrote:
I think pushing too hard could definatly be counter productive, the best thing to do is not ask questions but to simply talk passionatly. link pics of armies etc and demonstrate a passion. you want if word does get back to the GW brass from their facebook folks for the word to be "Man Ork players are awesome, they have such a passion and love for the game, so many of their conversions are imaginative" etc. not "ohh god Orks.. their players are such a whiny and entiled group of children"

I don't play Orks but I LOOOVE the people who do because their conversions are awesome. Orks are IMHO the best conversion artists in 40k, (chaos is the only faction that comes close)
If Ork players wanna REAAALY show their love for Orks on Facebook? a campaign to show off your favorite "Kuztom Orked up Konversion" would proably be a great idea.

Why would it be counter productive? Let's look at the evidence for a second;

1. Players complain that a certain aspect of the game is "broken" or not performing as intended in competitive play (Flyrants, Commanders, Conscripts, Storm Talons etc). GW fix it by implementing or changing rules.
2. Sororitas players (and another large section of the community) complain that their models are old and too expensive. GW state they're going to re-do the entire line and release it next year.
3. GW is a business and we are it's customers.

We have already talked passionately, linked pics of armies and conversions etc. We've already been positive and hopeful for the future and we have posted this all over social media. Go back and take a look at posts from Ork players at the start of 8th. Unfortunately GW has taken a massive dump all over that positivity and hope by their actions. Our excitement has turned to bitterness and disappointment. Many Ork players are literally 'taking a break' from the game or selling their miniatures to switch armies. This isn't only because of recent treatment either, this is due to years and years and years of the same repeated, shafting of the Ork community by GW. The latest in this long line of awful treatment is announcing a codex 2 months ago (while simultaneously bragging how many they had released so quickly) then releasing a ton of other games and giving absolutely no information. Any player of any faction would be pissed off in the same circumstance.

If anything your idea is counter-productive because GW thinks; "Ork players will always play Orks, regardless of how gak we treat them", which is obviously not true. They need to be shown this is not true and told this is not true or they will keep treating the community as if it is. Telling GW that as customers we are pissed off at the constant bs treatment is the better alternative which for many is to leave the faction or leave the hobby altogether.

It is common for GW to release products 3-4 months after they were first teased. The Necromunda stuff is the textbook examples.

I don't think it is weird that the Ork and SW codices were announced about that far in advance. It is the other codices that were unusual.

However, it is odd that we have heard nothing else since. Typically there are a few snippets to remind people this product previewed a month ago still exists. I am wondering what we will see in August.

 Haighus wrote:

However, it is odd that we have heard nothing else since. Typically there are a few snippets to remind people this product previewed a month ago still exists. I am wondering what we will see in August.

we arent really complaining about how long it will take the codex to come out after it was announced, we are mostly complaining of the lack of any "hype" articles.

im gonna make a wild prediction. warhammer fest happens, there will be cool pics/previews/videos of new boxed games, more specialist games will be announced, new aos stuff will be announced (including more stormcast models), fw will yet again try to justify their existence with previews of ...drum roll....space marine stuff. then somewhere stuck in between all that new stuff a guy will simply say "ork and SW coming soon" and then the fest will be over.
im predicting absolutely nothing form warhammer fest. and maybe with such a bold claim i can be pleasantly proven wrong.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I think pushing too hard could definatly be counter productive, the best thing to do is not ask questions but to simply talk passionatly. link pics of armies etc and demonstrate a passion. you want if word does get back to the GW brass from their facebook folks for the word to be "Man Ork players are awesome, they have such a passion and love for the game, so many of their conversions are imaginative" etc. not "ohh god Orks.. their players are such a whiny and entiled group of children"

I don't play Orks but I LOOOVE the people who do because their conversions are awesome. Orks are IMHO the best conversion artists in 40k, (chaos is the only faction that comes close)
If Ork players wanna REAAALY show their love for Orks on Facebook? a campaign to show off your favorite "Kuztom Orked up Konversion" would proably be a great idea.

Why would it be counter productive? Let's look at the evidence for a second;

1. Players complain that a certain aspect of the game is "broken" or not performing as intended in competitive play (Flyrants, Commanders, Conscripts, Storm Talons etc). GW fix it by implementing or changing rules.
2. Sororitas players (and another large section of the community) complain that their models are old and too expensive. GW state they're going to re-do the entire line and release it next year.
3. GW is a business and we are it's customers.

We have already talked passionately, linked pics of armies and conversions etc. We've already been positive and hopeful for the future and we have posted this all over social media. Go back and take a look at posts from Ork players at the start of 8th. Unfortunately GW has taken a massive dump all over that positivity and hope by their actions. Our excitement has turned to bitterness and disappointment. Many Ork players are literally 'taking a break' from the game or selling their miniatures to switch armies. This isn't only because of recent treatment either, this is due to years and years and years of the same repeated, shafting of the Ork community by GW. The latest in this long line of awful treatment is announcing a codex 2 months ago (while simultaneously bragging how many they had released so quickly) then releasing a ton of other games and giving absolutely no information. Any player of any faction would be pissed off in the same circumstance.

If anything your idea is counter-productive because GW thinks; "Ork players will always play Orks, regardless of how gak we treat them", which is obviously not true. They need to be shown this is not true and told this is not true or they will keep treating the community as if it is. Telling GW that as customers we are pissed off at the constant bs treatment is the better alternative which for many is to leave the faction or leave the hobby altogether.

would you rather you got a codex around the time of codex space marines and got an uninspired so so codex?

BrianDavion wrote:


would you rather you got a codex around the time of codex space marines and got an uninspired so so codex?

your right, we ork players have nothing to complain about. we should all be thankfull that gw even remembered they still sold ork models. we just take we are given (or not given).

now all serious.
yeah, true enough if we did get our codex at the beggining of the edition it would most likely bland like the spezmahreen codex, but gw has shown they know how to market their product and how to hype the players for their upcoming codexs. all this they have conveniently stopped doing as soon as they announced ours.....we should be worried.

So you people are now crying for quick, low quality codex instead of GW taking their time to do it properly?

Have you gone mad?

BrianDavion wrote:
would you rather you got a codex around the time of codex space marines and got an uninspired so so codex?

A - Please don't bring Space Marine players' tears into this thread, it's entirely off topic.
B - The release date of codex has absolutely no bearing on how inspired (or not) a codex is.

I'd rather have a codex perhaps around the time of Death Guard, Craftworld, or Tyranid, that are far, FAR earlier than ours and are incredibly rewarding to play with.

 Jidmah wrote:
So you people are now crying for quick, low quality codex instead of GW taking their time to do it properly?

Have you gone mad?

See point B above. No one is asking for a 'quick, low quality codex'. Poor argument is poor. Have you already forgotten the amount of time it took GW to do other codexes in past editions that were absolute garbage?

 Jidmah wrote:
So you people are now crying for quick, low quality codex instead of GW taking their time to do it properly?

Have you gone mad?

In the grand scheme of things it's probably good to be one of the later codices (assuming they don't jump to 9th in q1 2019, which I doubt). What's annoying to me, and several others as I've understood it, is the total radio silence on Orks since they said SW & Orks are up next. A general timeframe or some tease would go a long way to appease the fans..

If they were going to release a decent range of Ork models there is no real reason not to show them. I am therefore very cynical on a significant re-vamp unless you are moving into 2019.

I know GW have always been concerned about "if we show future plastic crack, people won't buy the current plastic crack" but the record performance would indicate being more open, and therefore generating hype, is the way to go.

Also I am not convinced it takes time to issue a "high quality codex". Have a few solid chapter tactics, stratagems, warlord traits etc, dramatically reduce the cost of almost all shooting units (maybe not KMKs) and increase their damage output where points reductions don't help (see Burnas) and there you go.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

B - The release date of codex has absolutely no bearing on how inspired (or not) a codex is.

You really believe that our 7th edition codex would have been just as poor if it had come nearer the end of 7th?
I

 warhead01 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

B - The release date of codex has absolutely no bearing on how inspired (or not) a codex is.

You really believe that our 7th edition codex would have been just as poor if it had come nearer the end of 7th?
I

Because the Ghazghkull supplement was so great? Yes I do.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

B - The release date of codex has absolutely no bearing on how inspired (or not) a codex is.

You really believe that our 7th edition codex would have been just as poor if it had come nearer the end of 7th?
I

Because the Ghazghkull supplement was so great? Yes I do.

You mean the second one?
I kinda wonder some times, So I got both book together. But I didn't grasp the Green tide, it seemed the opposite of good to me in the beginning. But I do wonder if I would have had more fun from the start if I had understood just how strong it was from the start.
The second one was just depressing. I hadn't thought about either of them in some time. You make a fair point.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
See point B above. No one is asking for a 'quick, low quality codex'. Poor argument is poor.

You literally posted on the other thread you want a low-quality broken as feth codex as long as it's OP. You are the worst type of gamer GW should take advice from.

Have you already forgotten the amount of time it took GW to do other codexes in past editions that were absolute garbage?

Yeah, I'm done arguing with to you. You are flip-flopping on your arguments however it fits your opinion. Either past matters or it doesn't. For you it matters whenever it fits your argument and is irrelevant whenever it doesn't.

You just want to be right, no matter the arguments.

Might as well argue with peregrine about forgeworld.

geargutz wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/1905700039750626/?type=3&theater

been noticing this guy on the main post on the 40k facebook page (jerome swensen). hes been posting everyday for about a week asking if there's going to be any ork related news coming up. so far has only gotten a single non answer from the facebook guys (said he would keep posting until gw posts an article or something).(if you want to look at all of the the guys posts youll have to make sure the facebook comments are set to "new" and then you can see his comments going back about a week).

so, what you guys think? is it worth hounding the Facebook guys with constant questions? would it be worth while for us to try joining in?

personally im not sure of what to think of this. this is on the facebook page so no telling if these questions will ever be relayed to GW proper, but its much more public and easier for the community to see there are many who are wanting to know about the greenskinz. in the past many here on dakka dakka have said to "email GW" or something like that, maybe instead of emails that can easily be mass trashed we can try flooding the main facebook post with our detest of "why no ork news" (of course if we do this it would be best to be civil). who knows, maybe gw might cave in and say something.

Dude... I organised an entire waagh where lots of people sent letters and models to gw. We got nothing, not even a wink. Was worth doing it though, even if it was just for our own mental health


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyel wrote:
If they were going to release a decent range of Ork models there is no real reason not to show them. I am therefore very cynical on a significant re-vamp unless you are moving into 2019.

I know GW have always been concerned about "if we show future plastic crack, people won't buy the current plastic crack" but the record performance would indicate being more open, and therefore generating hype, is the way to go.

Also I am not convinced it takes time to issue a "high quality codex". Have a few solid chapter tactics, stratagems, warlord traits etc, dramatically reduce the cost of almost all shooting units (maybe not KMKs) and increase their damage output where points reductions don't help (see Burnas) and there you go.

I know a FB team member kinda siad it was this year. Someone said "I would be amazed if the Ork codex comes out before Christmas" and the fb member said "prepare to be amazed".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
See point B above. No one is asking for a 'quick, low quality codex'. Poor argument is poor.

You literally posted on the other thread you want a low-quality broken as feth codex as long as it's OP. You are the worst type of gamer GW should take advice from.

Have you already forgotten the amount of time it took GW to do other codexes in past editions that were absolute garbage?

Yeah, I'm done arguing with to you. You are flip-flopping on your arguments however it fits your opinion. Either past matters or it doesn't. For you it matters whenever it fits your argument and is irrelevant whenever it doesn't.

You just want to be right, no matter the arguments.

Might as well argue with peregrine about forgeworld.

Or maybe his views are changing and developing as he debates and learns about new arguments. Heck, my opinions change every dya bssed on the arguments here and if people manage to debate well enough to give me a new view of things.

 Jidmah wrote:
You literally posted on the other thread you want a low-quality broken as feth codex as long as it's OP. You are the worst type of gamer GW should take advice from.

You're going to have to back up those wild statements with some actual evidence Jidmah. Since it's in the other thread, you care to quote it here? Or are you making stuff up/misinterpreting things again?

 Jidmah wrote:
Yeah, I'm done arguing with to you. You are flip-flopping on your arguments however it fits your opinion. Either past matters or it doesn't. For you it matters whenever it fits your argument and is irrelevant whenever it doesn't.

You just want to be right, no matter the arguments.

Might as well argue with peregrine about forgeworld.

Convenient. Do you always leave discussions when you can't respond and attack the person you're discussing with?

<Removed - Rule #1 people..>

Okay, calm down now. Let's not start another fight.

 lolman1c wrote:

geargutz wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/1905700039750626/?type=3&theater

been noticing this guy on the main post on the 40k facebook page (jerome swensen). hes been posting everyday for about a week asking if there's going to be any ork related news coming up. so far has only gotten a single non answer from the facebook guys (said he would keep posting until gw posts an article or something).(if you want to look at all of the the guys posts youll have to make sure the facebook comments are set to "new" and then you can see his comments going back about a week).

so, what you guys think? is it worth hounding the Facebook guys with constant questions? would it be worth while for us to try joining in?

personally im not sure of what to think of this. this is on the facebook page so no telling if these questions will ever be relayed to GW proper, but its much more public and easier for the community to see there are many who are wanting to know about the greenskinz. in the past many here on dakka dakka have said to "email GW" or something like that, maybe instead of emails that can easily be mass trashed we can try flooding the main facebook post with our detest of "why no ork news" (of course if we do this it would be best to be civil). who knows, maybe gw might cave in and say something.

Dude... I organised an entire waagh where lots of people sent letters and models to gw. We got nothing, not even a wink. Was worth doing it though, even if it was just for our own mental health

.

Your mail in was at least funny.

Pestering them every day is very rude. It will become very annoying very fast and not just to the GW FB crew but to the rest of us who follow them as well.
Some people on line are just acting like demanding children. (Granted some of them are very likely just children... )

Dude, we're ork players. None of us are below 18... because we haven't had a good codex for 18 years.

Note for the non-ork. If you're going to argue with orks (and likely most ork players) the only way to win is to be a bigger git than the ork you're fightin.

So you gotta shout the loudest and be the most bombastic and shouty and big! Once they seez how big and mighty you are they'll follow!
And if not you it-em with your slugga then shoot them with the otter end of it!

Or, if you're not bigger, then be smarter. Tell him you're making him a cool cyborg eye and then when he wakes up tell him you put a bomb in his head and will trigger it if he doesn't follow you. That's what some Orks do...

 Overread wrote:
Note for the non-ork. If you're going to argue with orks (and likely most ork players) the only way to win is to be a bigger git than the ork you're fightin.

So you gotta shout the loudest and be the most bombastic and shouty and big! Once they seez how big and mighty you are they'll follow!
And if not you it-em with your slugga then shoot them with the otter end of it!

Haha. All pictures of me of me are taken with a fisheye lens...

Other than the arguement proving how quick Orks are to scrap over everything earlier....

It's most likely that we'll start seeing stuff from GW regarding Orks immediately before the release. I mean we didn't see anything for Kill Teams between the initial release and the teaser "faction focus" articles leading up to the release.

So no news just means "not yet" not "not at all".

I mean we're talking Orks, not Sisters here. You know, one of the most regularly updated armies in the game (other than Marines and Tyranids)?

My hope is that the later release will keep Orks from falling flat like the early edition codexes seem to be doing right now. But then again anything is possible for GW...

 lolman1c wrote:
Dude, we're ork players. None of us are below 18... because we haven't had a good codex for 18 years.

Funny part is, that's not even that much of hyperbole.

 ClockworkZion wrote:



I mean we're talking Orks, not Sisters here. You know, one of the most regularly updated armies in the game (other than Marines and Tyranids)?

Youre joking right? Weve had one codex in the last decade and it was gak. Our model line is one of the oldest in the game

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

B - The release date of codex has absolutely no bearing on how inspired (or not) a codex is.

You really believe that our 7th edition codex would have been just as poor if it had come nearer the end of 7th?
I

Because the Ghazghkull supplement was so great? Yes I do.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ghaz Supplement 1, Ghaz supplement 2, our new flyer and the codex itself, all hot garbage, spaced out over almost the entire edition

Yeah it doesn't matter when GW releases a codex, its is completely dependent upon who wrote it. Right now we have Space Marine Fan boys writing our codex so they can feel super awesome when they beat up our Waaaaghs

 Billagio wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:



I mean we're talking Orks, not Sisters here. You know, one of the most regularly updated armies in the game (other than Marines and Tyranids)?

Youre joking right? Weve had one codex in the last decade and it was gak. Our model line is one of the oldest in the game

Is our model line the oldest? The warbuggy and wartrakk might be the oldest still being sold. Other than that, while a lot of our stuff is old and finecast that can also be said of many other factions.

SemperMortis wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

B - The release date of codex has absolutely no bearing on how inspired (or not) a codex is.

You really believe that our 7th edition codex would have been just as poor if it had come nearer the end of 7th?
I

Because the Ghazghkull supplement was so great? Yes I do.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ghaz Supplement 1, Ghaz supplement 2, our new flyer and the codex itself, all hot garbage, spaced out over almost the entire edition

Yeah it doesn't matter when GW releases a codex, its is completely dependent upon who wrote it. Right now we have Space Marine Fan boys writing our codex so they can feel super awesome when they beat up our Waaaaghs

Yeah that's why systematically every edition later codexes are more powerfull than the ones before. Yup.

Orks are exception and note they got their 7th ed codex among first which actually proves the point. Bolt on supplement/=codex similarly ig got codex early in 7th ed and was weak. Necrons game, design style changed and broke it but some more codes and suddenly necrons appeared meek. 8th ed marines got codex early and now there's basically no really competive marine codex except for few units.

tneva82 wrote:


Yeah that's why systematically every edition later codexes are more powerfull than the ones before. Yup.

Orks are exception and note they got their 7th ed codex among first which actually proves the point. Bolt on supplement/=codex similarly ig got codex early in 7th ed and was weak. Necrons game, design style changed and broke it but some more codes and suddenly necrons appeared meek. 8th ed marines got codex early and now there's basically no really competive marine codex except for few units.

Semper is entirely correct.

Also here in the real world Space Marine players are still winning tournaments left and right. Despite having the first codex. Despite so many players claiming otherwise.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Yeah that's why systematically every edition later codexes are more powerfull than the ones before. Yup.

Orks are exception and note they got their 7th ed codex among first which actually proves the point. Bolt on supplement/=codex similarly ig got codex early in 7th ed and was weak. Necrons game, design style changed and broke it but some more codes and suddenly necrons appeared meek. 8th ed marines got codex early and now there's basically no really competive marine codex except for few units.

Semper is entirely correct.

Also here in the real world Space Marine players are still winning tournaments left and right. Despite having the first codex. Despite so many players claiming otherwise.

Maybe they are but it's not because they have a super strong point and click codex. the "lol all codices are weak to make Space Marines look good" arguement makes no sense, unless you think eldar are space marines or something

Guys, Space Marines arn't strong... Ultramarines and Ravens are strong. I play Imperial Fist and I haven't won a game with them in ages! XD

 lolman1c wrote:
Guys, Space Marines arn't strong... Ultramarines and Ravens are strong. I play Imperial Fist and I haven't won a game with them in ages! XD

Imperial fists are in that awkward position where their chapter tactic revolves around a core mechanic thats not all that great this edition. if cover imposed a -1 to hit and all those raven guard style -1 to hit abilities where classed as cover IFs would be a pretty good "anti-meta" CT

BrianDavion wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Guys, Space Marines arn't strong... Ultramarines and Ravens are strong. I play Imperial Fist and I haven't won a game with them in ages! XD

Imperial fists are in that awkward position where their chapter tactic revolves around a core mechanic thats not all that great this edition. if cover imposed a -1 to hit and all those raven guard style -1 to hit abilities where classed as cover IFs would be a pretty good "anti-meta" CT

Also, might have something to do with me being a fluff marines player not a competitive one. My main army is 15 marines, 10 primaris and 5 plasma dudes. My chapter is a imperial marines successor chapter so I stick to what tactics and units they use in lore. Also, my warlord is a chaplain. XD

So where#s last big tournament(not some lockal 15 guys one) that had big marine part? About only one you see is slamquinus and 15 scouts.sometimes lone guillimann. Whee

Yesterday I saw in a Ork FB group DaOrks40K is whining about our codex not being out yet and his fears that Gw can't give us a good codex. This whining seems to have become the new trend. I decided to just leave the group as this thread of his has grown and I don't see it going away, as a topic trend there. Anyone else leaving groups for the same reason?
In his last battle report he sounded completely depressed about, his list the army he was facing and playing a game. I'm considering unsubscribing from hi channel as well.
Not sure if this is off topic or not, seems relate to me but I could be wrong.

Thats not relevant at all, no.

 warhead01 wrote:
Yesterday I saw in a Ork FB group DaOrks40K is whining about our codex not being out yet and his fears that Gw can't give us a good codex. This whining seems to have become the new trend. I decided to just leave the group as this thread of his has grown and I don't see it going away, as a topic trend there. Anyone else leaving groups for the same reason?
In his last battle report he sounded completely depressed about, his list the army he was facing and playing a game. I'm considering unsubscribing from hi channel as well.
Not sure if this is off topic or not, seems relate to me but I could be wrong.

I've taken to blocking people here on the forum if they show no ability to say anything but negative constantly. Anyone who decides that their only contirubtion to any conversation is to toss muck on someone elses excitement or ability to look for a silver lining is gross and I want no part it what they have to say.

Looks like both of you are being pretty negative. Let's stay on topic.

 warhead01 wrote:
Yesterday I saw in a Ork FB group DaOrks40K is whining about our codex not being out yet and his fears that Gw can't give us a good codex. This whining seems to have become the new trend. I decided to just leave the group as this thread of his has grown and I don't see it going away, as a topic trend there. Anyone else leaving groups for the same reason?
In his last battle report he sounded completely depressed about, his list the army he was facing and playing a game. I'm considering unsubscribing from hi channel as well.
Not sure if this is off topic or not, seems relate to me but I could be wrong.

I honestly don't care about the waiting aspect, hell, we've waiting since 4th edition for a decent codex so another 2-4 months is nothing. But I will be seriously pissed, to the point where I stop playing if our new codex is hot garbage. So its not so much whining as just coming to terms with the reality of the situation. orkz have been arguably one of the worst armies since late 5th edition and our 7th edition codex was again arguably the worst of the entire edition. As to the fear that GW can't do orkz right? Well, serious question as I don't know the answer, but how many other armies in 7th edition had 2 Supplements, not campaign books, I am talking about the supplements. We had 2 and neither was worth a damn. We also got 5 new units/models. Gork/Morkanauts, Mek Gunz, Wazbom and Flash Gitz, now of those, how many were worth buying for game play not design? Mek Gunz, that is it. So yeah, I can honestly believe GW doesn't know how to do orkz.

Da40kOrks has been pretty positive in the videos I've seen. That last battle report he did was pretty negative, but he put up a note at the end that said "Forgive the saltyness. This game was no fun." I'm not going to unsubscribe over one video that was angry, especially when he acknowledges that in the video. I'm not part of whatever Facebook group he was complaining on, so I don't know what he said. Excessive whining is bad, but considering how positive he seemed to be in the past (at least in his videos) I wonder if it says something that he is complaining now?

I think that with the rapid release of codexes GW created an expectation when they announced that Orks and Wolves were next. That lead to a massive buildup of hype. Then when they followed that up with months of not only no book release, but more importantly no news it left many Ork players who had let themselves get hyped up with feelings of of disappointment and frustration. It's normal for unfulfilled expectations to make people feel angry, even if those expectations weren't logical or fair to begin with. I think that's why there's been a sharp increase in complaining from Ork players over the past couple months. Add in the total lack of official news and things like GSC getting model previews but not Orks and it's to be expected that rumors and paranoia are going to start increasing.

It could be fair to say that people shouldn't have gotten hyped and built up expectations, and that people should just ignore all news that isn't directly from the horse's mouth. I think there's truth in that. On the other hand I think GW could have easily avoided all of this negativity from much of the Ork community through better communication. I also think that they still can easily squelch most of it just by giving people a little bit of news.

Hopefully the above didn't sound too negative. I'm optimistic about the Ork codex. I've been both scolded about being too whiny about Orks and accused of being a pollyanna about Orks. I chalk it up to communication on the Internet being difficult.

 TedNugent wrote:
Looks like both of you are being pretty negative. Let's stay on topic.

Isn't this a chat thread?

It’s not the wait, it is rather lack of attention. So many spotlights and hype for precious codexes, yet for ours we are getting dead silence for 2 months. One thing that still is giving me hope is that wolves are also info starving, so maybe it is something super major for both of codexes?

 JawRippa wrote:
It’s not the wait, it is rather lack of attention. So many spotlights and hype for precious codexes, yet for ours we are getting dead silence for 2 months. One thing that still is giving me hope is that wolves are also info starving, so maybe it is something super major for both of codexes?

could be or maybe it's just not the time and we're currently dealing with big summer box set releases. I think Ork players right now need to temper their expectations because they could hurt themselves come release, if come release they get an amazing codex... and thats all I fear Ork players are going to focus on the "NO NEW STUFF?! BETRAYAL" aspect.

im firmly on the not caring about new 'stuff' side of the argument. I want a fleshed out variable codex ala tyranids.

In the order of what's actually important and desired by Ork players; I'd be willing to bet the desire for "a good codex" far exceeds the desire for "new models".

Ork players will convert everything they need anyways; they've learned to make due with less.

I personally just want a good codex. I don't give a grot about new models; I'll just make my own if I really want them.

Of course the order of priorities is good codex then new models but make no mistake we deserve both.

We have some of the oldest models going and if the release was codex only it should've come 9-6 months ago.

I'll also remind people that GW themselves said at a major event (I forget which, but it was when they announced the SW and Ork codexes I believe) that we should be getting model releases as one of the last to be released (according to sources at the event anyway).

I would be disappointed if we get a codex only release, the lack of support for Orks has been consistent and poor for too many years. Another edition of the same would be the final straw that breaks the camels back I think.

While I wouldn't say we deserve anything, I would argue GW as a business should be financially risky to improve the spirits of a section of their consumers who could just as easily (if they got a bad dex and no models) create a lot of negative press that would end up costing them more if they had not have spent more time on the dex. I myself will likely not say much if all goes wrong... probably make a few posts here and then go silent for a while. While some youtubers will go crazy!

However, their risk could very well become good marketing.They could spend more money on Orks not just as a faction update but as a marketing campaign to enforce the idea if New GW. Again, if Orks got everything they could ever dream of (for me a valid dex for friendly games, updates of all our models) I would probably sing gw's praise for weeks while I know the youtube community would also go crazy eith praise.

Again, right now it's rare I see ork players on battle reports from channels that don't have Orks but imperial guard, dark elder, etc... have gone up rapidly since their codex. If orks did have a lazy cheap codex then reports would go down even further and they would lose marketing there... while if thry funded a great dex then Orks could be in almost every report you seenon youtube.

 lolman1c wrote:
While I wouldn't say we deserve anything, I would argue GW as a business should be financially risky to improve the spirits of a section of their consumers who could just as easily (if they got a bad dex and no models) create a lot of negative press that would end up costing them more if they had not have spent more time on the dex. I myself will likely not say much if all goes wrong... probably make a few posts here and then go silent for a while. While some youtubers will go crazy!

However, their risk could very well become good marketing.They could spend more money on Orks not just as a faction update but as a marketing campaign to enforce the idea if New GW. Again, if Orks got everything they could ever dream of (for me a valid dex for friendly games, updates of all our models) I would probably sing gw's praise for weeks while I know the youtube community would also go crazy eith praise.

Again, right now it's rare I see ork players on battle reports from channels that don't have Orks but imperial guard, dark elder, etc... have gone up rapidly since their codex. If orks did have a lazy cheap codex then reports would go down even further and they would lose marketing there... while if thry funded a great dex then Orks could be in almost every report you seenon youtube.

I think if I was in charge of Orks my focus wouldn't nesscarily be on "new stuff" (I'd try to include a new kit or so don't get me wrong) but on robust rules for looted stuff. IMHO a "looted wagon" isn't really eneugh, one set of stats for everything just feels wrong. I'd put "looted wagons" "looted heavy tanks" and "looted fliers" all in the 'dex and include all sorts of rules within em. In short rather then just "3 or 4 new kits" (cause let's be honest, thats proably about what they'd get) I'd make sure the rules opened up huge swaths of the 40k vehicle range to Orks and enchouraged them to go hog wild with it. So that suddenly every battle report has new and amazing conversions etc. THAT is how you generate excitement around Orks.

 lolman1c wrote:
Again, right now it's rare I see ork players on battle reports from channels that don't have Orks but imperial guard, dark elder, etc... have gone up rapidly since their codex. If orks did have a lazy cheap codex then reports would go down even further and they would lose marketing there... while if thry funded a great dex then Orks could be in almost every report you seenon youtube.

And how you define 'good' codex? Taudar of 7th level of broken cheese?

Let's face it, while GW has some good writers (recent books for AoS show that plainly) a lot of the old guard is simply incompetent, and, unless we assume they sabotage books for kicks, often has no idea what makes a good book. I find ork complains kinda funny when these guys can't even do Space Marines of all things right - just look at last two big SM releases. You have Deathwatch, which was mangled by wunderteam of Kelly/Cruddace so badly hype from amazing models only sold DW for like a month, then people noticed they have terribad rules (compounded by said two geniuses then nerfing already weak book 3 times in a row...) and DW models started hitting ebay faster than orks. Then we have flagship range of new edition, the primaris, who were also rather weak, and while points cut kept them afloat, absurd proliferation of D2 good AP weapons kept them rather mediocre still. Do you want that?

Honestly, if I were ork player, I'd be praying for one of the good AoS guys to be given the book, not one of the has-beens, no matter how long it takes. As someone from different industry once said, a delayed book will eventually be good, rushed book will always be terrible. Alas, looks like GW is trying to do just that and yet, they can't win, because no matter what they do, not delivering best book ever instantly means people get to complain loudly. Especially seeing some people already went past unrealistic expectations and demand best book, whole new range, and refreshment of all models all at once, completely ignoring GW's well known production problems and other similar tiny, unimportant details...

I think most of us define a “good” codex as being as competitive and internally balanced/varied selections as the current Tyranids codex

 Billagio wrote:
I think most of us define a “good” codex as being as competitive and internally balanced/varied selections as the current Tyranids codex

That's what I'd like. I'd like many builds to be at least somewhat viable. I don't want anything that's broken or cheesy.

Also, I have a preference for flavor over competitiveness, but there's obviously a limit to that. Flavor is great, but it's no fun to get tabled by turn two in casual games.

That Death Grip stratagem that the Knights got is amazing. I'm hoping we get a bunch of stuff like that.

a good codex for me means that if I sit across the table from a bad player, I stand at least a decent chance of beating them regardless of what sort of flavor of the month army they bring to the game.

As it stands, there are matchups that are auto-lose... Provided the other player doesn't forget to use the things they've paid for.

 Billagio wrote:
I think most of us define a “good” codex as being as competitive and internally balanced/varied selections as the current Tyranids codex

I actually say this so many times I can't count in this thread and people still accuse me of wanting an OP codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:
a good codex for me means that if I sit across the table from a bad player, I stand at least a decent chance of beating them regardless of what sort of flavor of the month army they bring to the game.

As it stands, there are matchups that are auto-lose... Provided the other player doesn't forget to use the things they've paid for.

For once I agree with you... i can't tell you how frustrating it is having one of your GW in the heart of WAAC city... there is genuinely a guy who sells his models every few months to buy a new army and yells at people when he doesn't do well... (i refuse to play him but aparntly he's just a bad player). I'm talking people who bring Gullfaceman with like 15 las cannons (an automlose for my mek list regardless of my kff), people who refuse to play because Insay I just want a fun game and patronising people who tell me how i should get a new army.

I remember someone here or on another forums said they have been asked to stop playing their biker ork list because it's just not fun to crush it.

All I want is to have a chance and not be demolished turn 1 by rerolling basically auto hitting lascannons.

 lolman1c wrote:

For once I agree with you... i can't tell you how frustrating it is having one of your GW in the heart of WAAC city... there is genuinely a guy who sells his models every few months to buy a new army and yells at people when he doesn't do well... (i refuse to play him but aparntly he's just a bad player). I'm talking people who bring Gullfaceman with like 15 las cannons (an automlose for my mek list regardless of my kff), people who refuse to play because Insay I just want a fun game and patronising people who tell me how i should get a new army.

I remember someone here or on another forums said they have been asked to stop playing their biker ork list because it's just not fun to crush it.

All I want is to have a chance and not be demolished turn 1 by rerolling basically auto hitting lascannons.

That would be me, I have been asked not to bring my Speed Freakz lists anymore because the game basically ends turn 2. So my favorite army type is collecting dust, granted I did surprise my last opponent by bringing out a Battlewagon rush list with Mek Gunz in support.

SemperMortis wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

For once I agree with you... i can't tell you how frustrating it is having one of your GW in the heart of WAAC city... there is genuinely a guy who sells his models every few months to buy a new army and yells at people when he doesn't do well... (i refuse to play him but aparntly he's just a bad player). I'm talking people who bring Gullfaceman with like 15 las cannons (an automlose for my mek list regardless of my kff), people who refuse to play because Insay I just want a fun game and patronising people who tell me how i should get a new army.

I remember someone here or on another forums said they have been asked to stop playing their biker ork list because it's just not fun to crush it.

All I want is to have a chance and not be demolished turn 1 by rerolling basically auto hitting lascannons.

That would be me, I have been asked not to bring my Speed Freakz lists anymore because the game basically ends turn 2. So my favorite army type is collecting dust, granted I did surprise my last opponent by bringing out a Battlewagon rush list with Mek Gunz in support.

Just wondering if you've tried an army with both foot and Speed over either extreme?
My most competitive opponent seems to have trouble with that kind of build.

SemperMortis wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

For once I agree with you... i can't tell you how frustrating it is having one of your GW in the heart of WAAC city... there is genuinely a guy who sells his models every few months to buy a new army and yells at people when he doesn't do well... (i refuse to play him but aparntly he's just a bad player). I'm talking people who bring Gullfaceman with like 15 las cannons (an automlose for my mek list regardless of my kff), people who refuse to play because Insay I just want a fun game and patronising people who tell me how i should get a new army.

I remember someone here or on another forums said they have been asked to stop playing their biker ork list because it's just not fun to crush it.

All I want is to have a chance and not be demolished turn 1 by rerolling basically auto hitting lascannons.

That would be me, I have been asked not to bring my Speed Freakz lists anymore because the game basically ends turn 2. So my favorite army type is collecting dust, granted I did surprise my last opponent by bringing out a Battlewagon rush list with Mek Gunz in support.

Honestly, speed freaks is one of the bets thinsg about 40k and orks. The idea you can have an entire mobile and fast army like mad max is awesome. Tbh, the codex would be good in my mind if they made this army competitive (not dominanting competitive but comparable to good design).

That's really what I want most out of this codex. My kult of speed list is not really doing great so far in 8th haha. Fortunately I get to play it with friends in fun games sometimes but most armies struggle to make a list weak enough for it to be an even matchup I find. I don't need it to be great, not gonna go to tournaments with it anyways. I do however hope GW helps those lists enough that 10/12 squads of boyz in a trukk aren't completely useless.

I play orks because I love kitbashing them and they're super charming, not because I value winning above all else. Still, wouldn't mind sneaking in a victory every now and then

The one time I wanted to create a toned-down list I included a bunch of Trukk Boyz.


I like throwing a good amount of dice, but I'd say that for me personally max fun is 60 dice and there's diminishing returns after that up to 90. When it hits 120+ dice it gets tedious, in my opinion.

I like what lolman1c suggested a few pages back with Green Tide giving +1 WS instead of +1 Attack. I've also been thinking that a good change might be to make Choppas -1 AP rather than +1 Attack. When I was math hammering it out it was stronger against some units and weaker against others, but overall about the same.

Don't get me wrong, I like that Orks roll a lot of dice, I'd just like to limit the number of times I'm rolling well over 100.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The other day I played a game of Space Marines vs Space Marines. I forgot to bring an army, so one guy was nice enough to split his in half to play. He forgot to bring dice, so we only had the six that came in the Kill Team box I had just purchased. I was skeptical at first, but only having six dice actually worked fine. That was sure a big change from playing Orks.

Erghh... I Carry about a box of 100 mini dice to make things easier... but it's such a pain I offer to use dice rolling aps now that let me roll hundreds of dice at once just to sped things along... especially vs terminators. 1 time I threw 120 attacks at the termy squad and only killed 2... with my nobz... was a waste of my time... he just slowly wacked my force down and there wasn't much i could do but keep roling stupid amounts of dice untill he got unlucky.

I want a good codex with all the orks in it from past additions. I want boar boys and speed freaks. We might as well include the boys from the old feral list. Squiggoths, squig herders, and the old mad boys. This way GW can make lots of models not just new buggies. It's what they need to keep bring out models so they make more money. We get great choices they make money we all win.

That's unrealistically huge miniature amount to release at once. Way too many at once

That's true tneva82. But I didn't ask for super sized space marines. It's obvious that GW is not a rules company. They are a model company. That's their history. They want to make money they need to have more models to sell. Either make new games that require new mins and rules or build a solid ruleset that you only need new models for. They have chosen the first. Also my comment is more wish listing than reality. It would be nice not to have cobble so many hq models.

Speed Freaks could easily be done by having an Ork version of Chapter Tactics. Nothing else is really needed for them.

Feral Orks are going to be the hardest faction to include. Boarboys would need a new box set, which would be a huge investment. That being said I'd be totally happy if they went the Tzaangor route and simply added a small accessory sprue of pistol arms to the AoS box set. Squigoths are another beast entirely. It would require a new kit, no way around it. However it is an iconic Ork unit and I am actually surprised GW hasn't done one in the past. Even if they cost as much money as a Land Raider I'm willing to bet many Ork players would buy two or more.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Speed Freaks could easily be done by having an Ork version of Chapter Tactics. Nothing else is really needed for them.

Feral Orks are going to be the hardest faction to include. Boarboys would need a new box set, which would be a huge investment. That being said I'd be totally happy if they went the Tzaangor route and simply added a small accessory sprue of pistol arms to the AoS box set. Squigoths are another beast entirely. It would require a new kit, no way around it. However it is an iconic Ork unit and I am actually surprised GW hasn't done one in the past. Even if they cost as much money as a Land Raider I'm willing to bet many Ork players would buy two or more.

keep in mind things iike feral orks could also be used for a stand alone codex.

Squigoths and gigantic squigoths are available from forge world.

I am slowly working through each of the clans building themed ork armies, and after the free booters i am working on currently, then next one will be either snakebites or rebel grots. The snake bite army i am hoping forge world re-release the gigantic squigoth by then.

 cuda1179 wrote:


Feral Orks are going to be the hardest faction to include. Boarboys would need a new box set, which would be a huge investment.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Ironjawz-Orruk-Gore-Gruntas
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Bonesplitterz-Savage-Boarboy-Maniaks

Just one upgrade sprue required. Or a box of boys

I'd rather they not be their own book. As someone who hates spending money on rules having to buy all the rules for all my Orks would be annoying. XD I just want all the Orks to be in one big Orky codex full of Love and War!

 davou wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:


Feral Orks are going to be the hardest faction to include. Boarboys would need a new box set, which would be a huge investment.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Ironjawz-Orruk-Gore-Gruntas
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Bonesplitterz-Savage-Boarboy-Maniaks

Just one upgrade sprue required. Or a box of boys

Those Savage Boarboy Maniaks would be perfect for Snakebite Boar boys with a single upgrade sprue. Honestly, I'm super surprised there aren't more kits that are 40k-AoS cross compatible with the addition of a single accessory sprue. It would save GW so much money in development costs while opening up new markets for existing kits.

I want dozens of ork books.

Probably not dozens actually, but I think it would be good for Orks to eventually get a few specialized books as long as the main codex does a decent job of covering the mainstay builds. An example of what I mean by that is that I hope that the main codex can be used to make viable Speed Freaks lists, but then if a Speed Freaks book comes out down the road as an optional supplement that would be cool too.

I think that the ork codex can probably do a good job representing many different clans and playstyles, but at the same time orks have so much flavor that they could easily fill out multiple books.

Plastic variants of all the finecrap models would be brilliant.

Also a new Trukk model, unless it's just me that can't assemble the current sprue.

OH and a Bad Moons and Snakebites character. Sucks that neither of those clans have a character for them.

tneva82 wrote:Except there's no kit "nob bikers" and GW has been very sparse in letting units in codex without specific kit on sale.

I wouldn't worry too much about Nob Bikers, FW would probably cover them if need be.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I want dozens of ork books.

Probably not dozens actually, but I think it would be good for Orks to eventually get a few specialized books as long as the main codex does a decent job of covering the mainstay builds. An example of what I mean by that is that I hope that the main codex can be used to make viable Speed Freaks lists, but then if a Speed Freaks book comes out down the road as an optional supplement that would be cool too.

I think that the ork codex can probably do a good job representing many different clans and playstyles, but at the same time orks have so much flavor that they could easily fill out multiple books.

Definitely. We have so many Marine codexes when they are extremely similar.

I could see Codex: Orks. Codex: Speed Freakz. Codex: War Walkerz. as a quick list. It would make a ton of sense to me and would help differentiate the army further (troops are different etc).

I'd love this.

I could see Dread Mob being one, there used to be an old Dread Mob army in IA.

 Frozocrone wrote:
I could see Dread Mob being one, there used to be an old Dread Mob army in IA.

I would literally go bankrupt if this happened. I love my dread mob list (even if it's pretty meh) and would love to have an entire book of rules for them. Sadly, I can't see this really happening. Call me pessimistic, but Codex: Orks is all I can see happening due to how often we seem to get left by the wayside.

As long as GW doesn't decide to trim units off again (like Rough Riders) that don't have an official model I believe we should be in at least on okay position. Nothing has dipped even close to Grey Knights levels of bad since that came out. Necrons were pretty mediocre, but that's the worst codex I can think of in the last year. Even then they aren't horrible. Internal and external balance has been getting better. it looks like Games Workshop is getting better.

 cuda1179 wrote:
As long as GW doesn't decide to trim units off again (like Rough Riders) that don't have an official model I believe we should be in at least on okay position. Nothing has dipped even close to Grey Knights levels of bad since that came out. Necrons were pretty mediocre, but that's the worst codex I can think of in the last year. Even then they aren't horrible. Internal and external balance has been getting better. it looks like Games Workshop is getting better.

Which means it's about time for them to deviate for no perceivable reason.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Speed Freaks could easily be done by having an Ork version of Chapter Tactics. Nothing else is really needed for them.

Sure, if the klan tactic for speed Freakz is "All fast attacks cost 1/2 as much and gain x2 amount of shots per weapon."

SemperMortis wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Speed Freaks could easily be done by having an Ork version of Chapter Tactics. Nothing else is really needed for them.

Sure, if the klan tactic for speed Freakz is "All fast attacks cost 1/2 as much and gain x2 amount of shots per weapon."

... that'll never happen codex or not, most likely speed Freakz would get something like "all vehicles add +1 inch to movement" which could be kinda neat if Orks also get the "red onez go fasta" rule.

Speed Freaks might not get anything since they're not an actual clan.

BrianDavion wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Speed Freaks could easily be done by having an Ork version of Chapter Tactics. Nothing else is really needed for them.

Sure, if the klan tactic for speed Freakz is "All fast attacks cost 1/2 as much and gain x2 amount of shots per weapon."

... that'll never happen codex or not, most likely speed Freakz would get something like "all vehicles add +1 inch to movement" which could be kinda neat if Orks also get the "red onez go fasta" rule.

lol my point was that Speed Freakz as they currently stand are not "easily done" because they are all heavily over priced, lack damage output and have no staying power. At the moment the only Fast Attack slot that is considered remotely competitive is Stormboyz and only because they are basically Fast boyz for 2pts extra. Just like Kommandos were good (until they got nerfed) because they were basically boyz that could deepstrike for 3pts extra.

I just can't see Speed Freakz being competitive without a HEAVY reworking of the units stats as they currently stand. Even a hefty price reduction wouldn't fix most of their issues. Take Warbikes as an example. Even if you reduced them to 7th edition price (33% decrease in cost) they still wouldn't be all that effective pt for pt because they would still cost 3x as much as a boyz model and barely putout more dakka then an equivalent number of boyz, the only difference is that it would have a 4+ save instead of a 6+ but that is basically negated by the pure number of high AP 2dmg weapons in the game. I can't even think of a way to make Deffkoptas playable, they are desperately in need of a price reduction and either an increase in ranged damage or some other mechanic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Speed Freaks might not get anything since they're not an actual clan.

Evil Sunz

I've been enjoying Guy Haley's new Ork audio dramas.

BrianDavion wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Speed Freaks could easily be done by having an Ork version of Chapter Tactics. Nothing else is really needed for them.

Sure, if the klan tactic for speed Freakz is "All fast attacks cost 1/2 as much and gain x2 amount of shots per weapon."

... that'll never happen codex or not, most likely speed Freakz would get something like "all vehicles add +1 inch to movement" which could be kinda neat if Orks also get the "red onez go fasta" rule.

If this was the clan rule that we got. If this is as inventive and intelligent as GW could be when creating Evil Sunz clan tactics I would straight leave the game.
+1 inch to vehicle movement is fething garbage.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Speed Freaks could easily be done by having an Ork version of Chapter Tactics. Nothing else is really needed for them.

Sure, if the klan tactic for speed Freakz is "All fast attacks cost 1/2 as much and gain x2 amount of shots per weapon."

... that'll never happen codex or not, most likely speed Freakz would get something like "all vehicles add +1 inch to movement" which could be kinda neat if Orks also get the "red onez go fasta" rule.

If this was the clan rule that we got. If this is as inventive and intelligent as GW could be when creating Evil Sunz clan tactics I would straight leave the game.
+1 inch to vehicle movement is fething garbage.

I can see the rule being +1" to move, advance and charge. So 3" effectively if you do move, advanve and charge. That wouldn't be too shabby. Applied to all units, that's it.

for speedfreaks/evil sunz
=hopefully an full 6inches on runs for bikes and all wheeled and tracked vehicles and flyers (this way it wont be unintentionally a buff to walker armies)(and this sounds way better then a basic +1 to move)( maybe add a d6 to run! for a strat for adding onto the auto 6)

for dreadmob/deathskulls
=add the ramshackle rule to all walkers (greatly increases the survivability to all of them without giving them native invuls and maybe a strat to increase the 6up to a 5up or 4up for ramshackle)

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Speed Freaks could easily be done by having an Ork version of Chapter Tactics. Nothing else is really needed for them.

Sure, if the klan tactic for speed Freakz is "All fast attacks cost 1/2 as much and gain x2 amount of shots per weapon."

... that'll never happen codex or not, most likely speed Freakz would get something like "all vehicles add +1 inch to movement" which could be kinda neat if Orks also get the "red onez go fasta" rule.

If this was the clan rule that we got. If this is as inventive and intelligent as GW could be when creating Evil Sunz clan tactics I would straight leave the game.
+1 inch to vehicle movement is fething garbage.

I can see the rule being +1" to move, advance and charge. So 3" effectively if you do move, advanve and charge. That wouldn't be too shabby. Applied to all units, that's it.

That would mean that mobs of boys benefit from it the most, not vehicles. Which is extremely unfluffy.

 JawRippa wrote:

That would mean that mobs of boys benefit from it the most, not vehicles. Which is extremely unfluffy.

They could just word it so it only applies to vehicles, bikers and the fliers. I peronally hope it affects just those things but the bonus is +3" to the move characteristic and they can also advance and charge. That would make it more likely to ram battlewagons into the enemy turn 1 and then turn 2 everything disembarks the transport and charges as well.

+1 to ork vehicles is garbage, even if its +1 in all 3 movement phases it is still garbage.

Like I said earlier, the entire ork fast attack slot needs a heavy reworking, and the battlewagonz and Trukkz that accompany Fast Attack choices are garbage as well and need both a massive price drop and a durability buff. T7 with a 4+ save just isn't tough no matter how many wounds you assign it.

For a Evil Sunz Klan Tactic I would like to see something that actually gives a meaningful buff to fast options but that doesn't necessarily just increase their speed. Warbikers, Warbuggies and Deffkoptas all need massive increases to their damage output to be remotely competitive, almost every unit needs an increase in durability. Basically the only thing that is about right is the speed they already have.

Finally, just to really spell it out, this is why +1 to move/advance/charge is bad. Who benefits from that increased movement the most? Trukkz? Wagonz? koptas? Warbuggies? Nope, the answer is Stormboyz and warbikes, and it won't be used to be fast and flank opponents, it will be used to try and get into CC as quickly as possible, which for stormboyz is fine, but even warbikers shouldn't be doing that because they suck at CC. They are just a Boyz model with a cool toy after all, so 3 S4 attacks in CC isn't going to do much, hell if you had 12 boyz on warbikes its only 36 attacks, 24 hits and 12 wounds VS T4. Against a 3+ save that is only 4 dead Marines costing a grand total of 52pts and you spent a mere 324pts to kill that.... see what I mean?

There are so many fluffy ways for them to go about doing Klan Tactics, I just hope they don't go for the crappy ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:

 JawRippa wrote:

That would mean that mobs of boys benefit from it the most, not vehicles. Which is extremely unfluffy.

They could just word it so it only applies to vehicles, bikers and the fliers. I peronally hope it affects just those things but the bonus is +3" to the move characteristic and they can also advance and charge. That would make it more likely to ram battlewagons into the enemy turn 1 and then turn 2 everything disembarks the transport and charges as well.

That isn't that bad, its just sad that its just more boyz pulling the heavy weight while the wagon is a delivery method instead of its own unit. Even if you buy the Deff Rolla the Wagon isn't that impressive in CC, definitely not for 160pts.

I'm expecting the Evil Suns tactic to be different depending on the movement stat of the unit. If your move is 8" or less, you get a small bonus, if it's 9" or more you get a better one. I expect the actual benefit will be tied to advancing and be something like rolling two dice, pick the highest or add them both together depending on your movement.

I'm really struggling to think of what the other clans will get.

Goffs could get an extra benefit when charging, a general close combat bonus or some kind of leadership buff (probably a re-roll).

Blood Axes are likely to get +1 to saves while in cover, which would actually make cover worthwhile and stacks nicely for kommandos.

Snakebites are a total mystery. They could get a bonus to being sneaky, be tougher, get a bonus to hit against certain targets (probably ones with 10+ wounds) or a bunch or other stuff.

Bad Moons are likewise a bit hard to guess. They are stereotyped as the 'shooty' clan by the fanbase, but I'm not sure if that vision is shared by the designers. Possible things I could see them getting are extra range for their weapons, bonus to hit against certain targets or a morale effect from their shooting (maybe casualties count double for morale purposes).

Deff Skulls seem likely to have their luck emphasised, but there are a lot of ways that could be represented in the rules. I suspect that they will get re-rolls for natural 1s when making saving throws.

Yeah, obviously that tactic hinges on some general improvement to the units affected units for it to be useful. I'm just saying, something along those lines feels like a simple and fluffy rule for kult of speed arrmies. I'm hoping our vehicles get better but it's tough to figure out how to fix some of them. The battlewagon should be more effective, yes, but I'd rather have it being good than cheap. I'd prefer if the fix is not to keep current stats with a price drop but rather to improve it enough for it to be worth its points.

Amongst other things, 12 attacks with the deff rolla and all added choppy bits give additional attacks.
Maybe that embarked orks get to shoot overwatch as well if charged? Embarked orks get 1 close combat attack each if the vehicle is in close combat? Blows up bigger & easier?

Didn't oir like 2pts red paint upgrade give us +1"? If this was an entire clan trait I'd be angry as it's a straight up nerf from the last edition. Now... if they made red paint an upgrade that gave you +1" rather than a clan trait I'd be happy.

Ork vehicles upgrade comming back would be nice, too. I never understood why we lost ours, but eldar didn't.

Still paying for Choppa rule from third ed :-)

"Maximum 4+ save? Oh! The Humanity!"

Moriarty wrote:
Still paying for Choppa rule from third ed :-)

"Maximum 4+ save? Oh! The Humanity!"

Just had a thought about that. So back then Slugga Boys were 8 points each. If we had that rule again would what points if any should their be for models with a choppa?
Also, Shoota boys were 9 points each with the equivalent of a bolter. (with out the AP?)
That's what I'd like to get back some 24" rapid fire weapons. Maybe see the Snaz Gunz change from heavy 3 to rapid fire 3. Or would that be worse?

I've said other before but if GW had a brain they'd introduce synergies between our clan traits and units that should most benefit from them. For example have the clan trait allow an Evil Sunz unit to leave combat and charge (ala white scars). Now make warbikers, buggies, trakks, trukks and battlewagon's able to take an upgrade that allows them to deal mortal wounds on the charge. You've just made a fluffy and relatively useful synergy that encourages an army to play as its represented in lore.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I've said other before but if GW had a brain they'd introduce synergies between our clan traits and units that should most benefit from them. For example have the clan trait allow an Evil Sunz unit to leave combat and charge (ala white scars). Now make warbikers, buggies, trakks, trukks and battlewagon's able to take an upgrade that allows them to deal mortal wounds on the charge. You've just made a fluffy and relatively useful synergy that encourages an army to play as its represented in lore.

Do chapter traits for SM's buff vehicles or not? (for example) I don't know if, across all of 40K, which abilities buff vehicle models and which don't.
If it's not common place I can't expect it.
Admittedly I have only bothered to hardly skim the Harlequin Index and not bothered at all to look in depth at anything outside of index Orks.
If it isn't green I don't really care enough to look.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I've said other before but if GW had a brain they'd introduce synergies between our clan traits and units that should most benefit from them. For example have the clan trait allow an Evil Sunz unit to leave combat and charge (ala white scars). Now make warbikers, buggies, trakks, trukks and battlewagon's able to take an upgrade that allows them to deal mortal wounds on the charge. You've just made a fluffy and relatively useful synergy that encourages an army to play as its represented in lore.

The issue I have with that approach is I'd like it to be possible to mix different clans within the same army, ideally in the same detachment. But if you can do that and the clan bonus suits some units more than others, then the most effective force is going to be each unit getting the clan which is best suited to it and single-clan armies being at a disadvantage.

So, ideally, I'd like to have every clan bonus be roughly as good on every unit, but also encourage an overall play-style. So Evil Suns make everything more mobile, Deffskulls make everything more survivable, etc. Unfortunately, the number of mechanics which do that are fairly limited... you've got re-rolling 1s to hit (in both shooting and melee), wound (ditto) or save, +1 to strength or toughness, -1 to hit you, double cover benefit and that's about it. Everything else is kind of biased towards or against some units.

It seems almost as though the tactics will need to be different for different units in order to satisfy me.

SemperMortis wrote:
[
lol my point was that Speed Freakz as they currently stand are not "easily done" because they are all heavily over priced, lack damage output and have no staying power. At the moment the only Fast Attack slot that is considered remotely competitive is Stormboyz and only because they are basically Fast boyz for 2pts extra. Just like Kommandos were good (until they got nerfed) because they were basically boyz that could deepstrike for 3pts extra.

I just can't see Speed Freakz being competitive without a HEAVY reworking of the units stats as they currently stand. Even a hefty price reduction wouldn't fix most of their issues. Take Warbikes as an example. Even if you reduced them to 7th edition price (33% decrease in cost) they still wouldn't be all that effective pt for pt because they would still cost 3x as much as a boyz model and barely putout more dakka then an equivalent number of boyz, the only difference is that it would have a 4+ save instead of a 6+ but that is basically negated by the pure number of high AP 2dmg weapons in the game. I can't even think of a way to make Deffkoptas playable, they are desperately in need of a price reduction and either an increase in ranged damage or some other mechanic.

Of course they need a point reduction. I was talking about a model perspective. Yeah, I guess we could use a new plastic deathcopta. The Truck looks good, bikers are good, and stormboys are okay. looks good, bikers are good, and stormboys are okay.

LOOK you ork boyz got yourself some news post in the community pages https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/08/waaagh-berman/


*flees the thread*

 warhead01 wrote:

Do chapter traits for SM's buff vehicles or not? (for example) I don't know if, across all of 40K, which abilities buff vehicle models and which don't.
If it's not common place I can't expect it.

In general, SM Chapters and Chaos Legions only affect infantry, bikes and dreads.
Every other "chapter tactics" bonus affects all models in the detachment, though a few impose additional limitation on the bonus or parts of the bonus, like Saim-Hann for bikes or Catachans for infantry and vehicles.

It's pretty safe to say ork clans in general will affect all units, with the possibility of some buffs restricted to bikes, infantry and/or vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:
LOOK you ork boyz got yourself some news post in the community pages https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/08/waaagh-berman/


*flees the thread*

What really sets him apart from other ork armies is being about 120 boyz short of a viable army

 warhead01 wrote:

Moriarty wrote:
Still paying for Choppa rule from third ed :-)

"Maximum 4+ save? Oh! The Humanity!"

Just had a thought about that. So back then Slugga Boys were 8 points each. If we had that rule again would what points if any should their be for models with a choppa?
Also, Shoota boys were 9 points each with the equivalent of a bolter. (with out the AP?)
That's what I'd like to get back some 24" rapid fire weapons. Maybe see the Snaz Gunz change from heavy 3 to rapid fire 3. Or would that be worse?

It's funny how Rapid Fire weapons have improved. I remember back when Shootas were Rapid Fire in the 3rd Ed codex and they were completely worthless, as Shoota Boyz were far better at close combat than shooting but if they moved they had one shot at 12" so they might as well have had a Slugga.

I can see your point with making Snazzgunz Rapid Fire. If they became Rapid Fire 3, and Flash Gitz got a 4+ save, and transports went way down in price, then Flash Gitz might be worth taking.

 Overread wrote:
LOOK you ork boyz got yourself some news post in the community pages https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/08/waaagh-berman/


*flees the thread*

I shared a picture over there and said green is best. 40K told me that blue is better...
Deff Skulls best clan n codex confirmed.

 warhead01 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
LOOK you ork boyz got yourself some news post in the community pages https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/08/waaagh-berman/


*flees the thread*

I shared a picture over there and said green is best. 40K told me that blue is better...
Deff Skulls best clan n codex confirmed.

I think you mean a new SM codex is coming out first

At the very least it's a good thing orks are getting some attention on the community website.One or two articles like this and then some stuff from GW themselves often seem to precede a codex release. And the army itself looked really cool! Did I miss it or was it explained how he did the flames for the stormboyz?

 Jidmah wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

Do chapter traits for SM's buff vehicles or not? (for example) I don't know if, across all of 40K, which abilities buff vehicle models and which don't.
If it's not common place I can't expect it.

In general, SM Chapters and Chaos Legions only affect infantry, bikes and dreads.
Every other "chapter tactics" bonus affects all models in the detachment, though a few impose additional limitation on the bonus or parts of the bonus, like Saim-Hann for bikes or Catachans for infantry and vehicles.

It's pretty safe to say ork clans in general will affect all units, with the possibility of some buffs restricted to bikes, infantry and/or vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:
LOOK you ork boyz got yourself some news post in the community pages https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/08/waaagh-berman/


*flees the thread*

the "power armor" codices got screwed in that regard yeah

What really sets him apart from other ork armies is being about 120 boyz short of a viable army

the 40k facebook post of that article is filled with ork players both pleased to see anything ork related from GW, but also disappointed because they almost had the briefest moment of hope that it was a teaser for codex orks.

i can see it now how it went down at GW HQ

community team member "wow, many ork players keep asking for any rumors for their codex...and i think we might lose them if we dont do something soon"

GW higher up "hmm, we cant spend the time of our article writers, they are too busy with writing articles for titanicus and killteam...wait, quickly check the inbox"

community team member "well we recently got some pictures from a fan of his ork models, they are actually very well done, even better then our own ork collection..;"

GW higher up "perfect, quickly,post those right now, that should tie them over till we release their codex next year....or eventually"

community team member "but sire, wouldn't they prefer to have an article talking about how good their codex will be?"

GW higher up "what? are you mad, their codex is a stinking mess, we would be hanging ourselves if we did any article about that dumpster-fire in the form of rules!"

community team member "fair enough, posting the pics."

geargutz wrote:
the 40k facebook post of that article is filled with ork players both pleased to see anything ork related from GW, but also disappointed because they almost had the briefest moment of hope that it was a teaser for codex orks.

i can see it now how it went down at GW HQ

community team member "wow, many ork players keep asking for any rumors for their codex...and i think we might lose them if we dont do something soon"

GW higher up "hmm, we cant spend the time of our article writers, they are too busy with writing articles for titanicus and killteam...wait, quickly check the inbox"

community team member "well we recently got some pictures from a fan of his ork models, they are actually very well done, even better then our own ork collection..;"

GW higher up "perfect, quickly,post those right now, that should tie them over till we release their codex next year....or eventually"

community team member "but sire, wouldn't they prefer to have an article talking about how good their codex will be?"

GW higher up "what? are you mad, their codex is a stinking mess, we would be hanging ourselves if we did any article about that dumpster-fire in the form of rules!"

community team member "fair enough, posting the pics."

right now we've got adeptus titancus in the pipe, they'll be hyping that, generally GW doesn't hype item 2 before item 1 is released.

on another note... it occurs to me, would a Morkanought be about right for a stompa or even gargant in the upcoming AT?

BrianDavion wrote:

geargutz wrote:
the 40k facebook post of that article is filled with ork players both pleased to see anything ork related from GW, but also disappointed because they almost had the briefest moment of hope that it was a teaser for codex orks.

i can see it now how it went down at GW HQ

community team member "wow, many ork players keep asking for any rumors for their codex...and i think we might lose them if we dont do something soon"

GW higher up "hmm, we cant spend the time of our article writers, they are too busy with writing articles for titanicus and killteam...wait, quickly check the inbox"

community team member "well we recently got some pictures from a fan of his ork models, they are actually very well done, even better then our own ork collection..;"

GW higher up "perfect, quickly,post those right now, that should tie them over till we release their codex next year....or eventually"

community team member "but sire, wouldn't they prefer to have an article talking about how good their codex will be?"

GW higher up "what? are you mad, their codex is a stinking mess, we would be hanging ourselves if we did any article about that dumpster-fire in the form of rules!"

community team member "fair enough, posting the pics."

right now we've got adeptus titancus in the pipe, they'll be hyping that, generally GW doesn't hype item 2 before item 1 is released.

Interestingly, Titanicus comes out next weekend which is also when Warhammer Fest Europe is. Hopefully since Titanicus will be "released", we will get some news on the next codex at warhammer fest (whether its wolves or orks)

I jnow this isn't a Titanicus thread hut that product kijda highlights how I see GW right now. They're tryingnto do the right thing in all the wrong ways.

We asked for Epic, they listened and gave us imperial Horus heresy, so we say "yey at least I can use my old epic army", they listen and make it 8mm making everything in the past inferior, we say "at least if this does well they will make 40k epic and this might be a fun thing to domon the side", they listen and make the most expensive kit they have done in years from plastic models and make it limited edition so a lot of the potential casual audience is turned off (who buys a kot for that price for models to a new game you don't k ow much about or don't know if it will be any good in a year... never mind the poor Australians and Asias who would have to pay about £300 for it).

It's what worries me about orks and brings up an article I read from the GW cofounder who said the marketing team had taken over design (this was like 4 or 5 years old article i think). GW is listening and I do feel their design team is trying to make a fun game but marketing and the hiher ups do what they always do.

Man GW have kept the Ork leaks tight this time =/

 Ratius wrote:
Man GW have kept the Ork leaks tight this time =/

The lack of any leaks at all disturbs me.

 Billagio wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

geargutz wrote:
the 40k facebook post of that article is filled with ork players both pleased to see anything ork related from GW, but also disappointed because they almost had the briefest moment of hope that it was a teaser for codex orks.

i can see it now how it went down at GW HQ

community team member "wow, many ork players keep asking for any rumors for their codex...and i think we might lose them if we dont do something soon"

GW higher up "hmm, we cant spend the time of our article writers, they are too busy with writing articles for titanicus and killteam...wait, quickly check the inbox"

community team member "well we recently got some pictures from a fan of his ork models, they are actually very well done, even better then our own ork collection..;"

GW higher up "perfect, quickly,post those right now, that should tie them over till we release their codex next year....or eventually"

community team member "but sire, wouldn't they prefer to have an article talking about how good their codex will be?"

GW higher up "what? are you mad, their codex is a stinking mess, we would be hanging ourselves if we did any article about that dumpster-fire in the form of rules!"

community team member "fair enough, posting the pics."

right now we've got adeptus titancus in the pipe, they'll be hyping that, generally GW doesn't hype item 2 before item 1 is released.

Interestingly, Titanicus comes out next weekend which is also when Warhammer Fest Europe is. Hopefully since Titanicus will be "released", we will get some news on the next codex at warhammer fest (whether its wolves or orks)

That'd be my guess. they;'ll come in comment about how much people lov ed AT and "you'll like what's coming up even more" likely they'll show off the codices, the reiver and warhound for AT, and maybe some other stuff, I noticed the list of BL novels for november is REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLY thin last time it was this thin was because DI was launching and they didn't wanna spoil it with a novel being on the coming up list before they announced it

Heh, maybe Titanicus will have new rules that make Stompas usable...that would be a bit of happy for the green guys...? One can always hope.

Did Grukk ever get any rules for 8th edition?

 Rismonite wrote:
Did Grukk ever get any rules for 8th edition?

No, not yet. Probably in the codex?

 Rismonite wrote:
Did Grukk ever get any rules for 8th edition?

Grukk was squatted, among with most other 7th edition characters that were not part of a codex.

Looks like wolves are up first; GW page just droped a big hint

Looks like the ork boxset isnt happening

 TedNugent wrote:
Looks like the ork boxset isnt happening

Strange, it looks like GSC vs Space Wolves in that picture. So can we assume that orks will be dead last?

Obi_wang wrote:


Strange, it looks like GSC vs Space Wolves in that picture. So can we assume that orks will be dead last?

I hope so. But I fear this means GSC & Wolves are ahead of Orks in line.

Obi_wang wrote:
Strange, it looks like GSC vs Space Wolves in that picture. So can we assume that orks will be dead last?

WC said orks and SW are the next two codexes and that GC will get something before their codex. I guess that means this box will have the new GC aberrants and characters, but they may have to wait a bit longer for their codex. SW are presumably before orks, probably due to release shortly after this box set of whatever it is, like the new knights with forgebane. Not clear if this is a stand-alone game, an alternative 40k starter box or another variant of kill team.

This news is yet another disappointing slap in the face.

No orks vs sw box set.

If we get no new models with the codex release I'm walking away. GW are repeatedly taking the piss out of ork players and I'm getting real sick of it.

To be fair we don't actually know what this picture is from. It very well just could be from the Space Wolves codex or something.

Obi_wang wrote:
To be fair we don't actually know what this picture is from. It very well just could be from the Space Wolves codex or something.

The artwork features both the new aberrant model and the gunslinger......

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
This news is yet another disappointing slap in the face.

No orks vs sw box set.

If we get no new models with the codex release I'm walking away. GW are repeatedly taking the piss out of ork players and I'm getting real sick of it.

an ork vs SW set always struck me as an.. odd choice given stormclaw.

Probably going to be a Forgebane-style release with a mix of old and new miniatures and a few custom scenarios.

I’m guessing the Gorkamorka rumors will turn out to be something similar for Orks, but we’ll have to wait a while to find out.

I just want a codex that allow me to field Burnas, Lootas, Trukk boyz, Stompas etc. without auto-losing the game. Today I simply can’t do that, and it makes me a bit sad. It takes away a lot of the pleasure of converting and painting, so I find myself spending much more time with my other armies instead. Why should I ever finish off my halfway done Loota mob, if I know that in the game they will hardly kill anything before dying to a stiff breeze? I might as well just leave them home, hell I might as well leave all my Orks at home and bring my Necrons instead, with them I at least have a half decent chance...

Yeah, but all we can still do really is speculate till GW states anything concrete.

I don't see no Orks vs Wolves box as a slap in the face, since such a box was only ever a rumor.

I would like a new Ork box. We might still get one. I'm happy that 40k news is starting back up.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I don't see no Orks vs Wolves box as a slap in the face, since such a box was only ever a rumor.

I would like a new Ork box. We might still get one. I'm happy that 40k news is starting back up.

indeed, do Ork players really need to spend a buncha money to get space marines?

The lack of an Ork vs Wolves box makes it all the more likely we get no new models, rumour or not.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I don't see no Orks vs Wolves box as a slap in the face, since such a box was only ever a rumor.

I would like a new Ork box. We might still get one. I'm happy that 40k news is starting back up.

indeed, do Ork players really need to spend a buncha money to get space marines?

Exactly this.
I would have zero interest in the not Ork models and no one to split such a box with or desire to fool around with selling the other half. I would just skip that box.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The lack of an Ork vs Wolves box makes it all the more likely we get no new models, rumour or not.

or it means the new models aren't likely to be mostly infantry. if Orks are getting a new Trukk, a new warboss and some new tank, , a starter box style box might not really be a chance to show those off.

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The lack of an Ork vs Wolves box makes it all the more likely we get no new models, rumour or not.

or it means the new models aren't likely to be mostly infantry. if Orks are getting a new Trukk, a new warboss and some new tank, , a starter box style box might not really be a chance to show those off.

I hope you're right though I can't see a new trunk or tank, personally.

A new warboss and any other model would be welcome. I'd like new Ghazzy and buggies, personally.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The lack of an Ork vs Wolves box makes it all the more likely we get no new models, rumour or not.

or it means the new models aren't likely to be mostly infantry. if Orks are getting a new Trukk, a new warboss and some new tank, , a starter box style box might not really be a chance to show those off.

I hope you're right though I can't see a new trunk or tank, personally.

A new warboss and any other model would be welcome. I'd like new Ghazzy and buggies, personally.

We honestly need a non-FW tank. The battlewagon at its current cost is laughably poor as a tank, not to mention its BS being crap. We need a cheap tank we can field in squads, like looted Leman Russes or something.