Shakalooloo wrote: But it almost has an internal consistency. Look, I just get needlessly triggered whenever someone write 'Adeptus Sororitas', it's a me problem.
Well, if they're calling them the Adeptus, they've beansed it because it's Adepta. It's on the Codex cover and everything.
Shakalooloo wrote: But it almost has an internal consistency. Look, I just get needlessly triggered whenever someone write 'Adeptus Sororitas', it's a me problem.
Well, if they're calling them the Adeptus, they've beansed it because it's Adepta. It's on the Codex cover and everything.
Exactly! And GW themselves have gotten it wrong in official products before!
Dysartes wrote: From the Dark Eldar perspective, I'd say that the deeper into the edition they go without a new book, the better the odds feel that you might get a chonky release this time.
Might be the copium talking, but until the book drops, there's a chance...
Calling it now - the "chonky release" will be:
- A new Lelith model (she's fat now).
- A new Drazhar model with an even bigger rock to stand on.
Oh and the Beastmaster, all three Beasts and all four Court of the Archon units have been deleted from the codex to streamline the army.
Listen, I know you were only joking, but I'm truly afraid it will happen like that. My poor 3rd edition warp beasts barely hung on, and then I bought a Clawed Fiend. They are unusable now,at least until I can find a bird proxy, but I'd like to keep the unit as playable.
If anything, I suspect the restructuring of the Court and the Beastmaster (and friends) unit is so they can be dealt with as a single box each at some point.
I think I'd rather they split the Beastmaster unit into three - one for each beast - and maybe didn't have the Beastmaster on a skyboard for each of them, but the combined unit is better than losing it.
Dysartes wrote: If anything, I suspect the restructuring of the Court and the Beastmaster (and friends) unit is so they can be dealt with as a single box each at some point.
I think I'd rather they split the Beastmaster unit into three - one for each beast - and maybe didn't have the Beastmaster on a skyboard for each of them, but the combined unit is better than losing it.
yeah if they're making a new Beastmaster, they'd just put the beasts in its box. Hand of the Archon is a little trickier, but they can fit some new and old stuff in a box together
Dysartes wrote: From the Dark Eldar perspective, I'd say that the deeper into the edition they go without a new book, the better the odds feel that you might get a chonky release this time.
Might be the copium talking, but until the book drops, there's a chance...
Calling it now - the "chonky release" will be:
- A new Lelith model (she's fat now).
- A new Drazhar model with an even bigger rock to stand on.
Oh and the Beastmaster, all three Beasts and all four Court of the Archon units have been deleted from the codex to streamline the army.
Listen, I know you were only joking, but I'm truly afraid it will happen like that. My poor 3rd edition warp beasts barely hung on, and then I bought a Clawed Fiend. They are unusable now,at least until I can find a bird proxy, but I'd like to keep the unit as playable.
What on earth makes you think I was joking?
Incidentally, I look forward to GW doing absolutely nothing with the kill-team Mandrakes, despite DE crying out for new HQs.
Shakalooloo wrote: We have plastic ur-ghuls that can be recut, so maybe there'll be a full squad as a command box, with a nice, new Archon-with-Options to lead 'em.
Archon with OPTIONS? In GW eyes that's blasphemy. Seriously though, I would love it. The models we currently have were specifically designed for inter-kit weapons swaps, but that got kicked in the nards by NMNR. I feel every generic HQ guy should have AT LEAST 2-3 pistol options and 2-3 melee options as standard. I hate to say it, but I LONG for the options of the 3rd edition codex (even the first printing and not the expanded reprint one).
Shakalooloo wrote: We have plastic ur-ghuls that can be recut, so maybe there'll be a full squad as a command box, with a nice, new Archon-with-Options to lead 'em.
Archon with OPTIONS? In GW eyes that's blasphemy. Seriously though, I would love it. The models we currently have were specifically designed for inter-kit weapons swaps, but that got kicked in the nards by NMNR. I feel every generic HQ guy should have AT LEAST 2-3 pistol options and 2-3 melee options as standard. I hate to say it, but I LONG for the options of the 3rd edition codex (even the first printing and not the expanded reprint one).
It might not be the full armory access of the past, but GW still does occasionally make HQs with options. Some recent SM captains, and the Eldar Autarch come to mind.
Not perfect, but modern HQ with more then one option have been made in the time of NMNR.
Wondering when they're going to even be released. Missed the 15 minutes or so that the kill team box was available to buy...
Noting the Imperial Agents Killteam box got rebranded as a standard 40k one, I can see that happening when the DE Codex releases if it doesn't come out as an individual KT before then.
Exactly! And GW themselves have gotten it wrong in official products before!
Pretty sure it was Adeptus several years ago, maybe only in the German localization.
Edit: Found it
It was always Adeptus Sororitas in German until they got their codex a few years ago - and I still call them so. We took Adeptus just as a common noun for an Imperial faction regardless of the members.
It was Sisters of Battle in English back then, but Schwestern der Schlacht just sounds silly in German, even in 40k.
My main issue with DE as a release, is that presumably they'd want to re-do the battleline units, but I'm not sure any of them really need it.
I can see Court of the Archon as a fixed box and Beastmaster+some stuff.
I'm not quite sure where you go from there though.
Dedicated Sniper-Wracks?
Corrupted Wraithguard from the Path of Dark Eldar books?
Elder Haemonculus riding some sort of pain engine. Tower of flesh?
Mandrake Character.
"Mega-Scourge/Incubi with jetpacks?"
Plastic Tantalus?
Some sort of indirect weapon even if they are a blight on the game? Maybe some unit that takes in pain across the battlefield and can dump it elsewhere (yes I know its called a Cronos).
Need some proper Grotesques. Gloopy, 'orrible ones with lots of gross bits, to put the recent Skaven stuff to shame, ideally. While at it, they can re-do the Wracks to give them some ears (their masks have gaps for them, but their heads are just blank!) and put ten in a box.
And oh yeah, the obvious centrepiece model of Asdrubael Vect on his Dais of Destruction.
Asdrubael Vect with his pleasure boat sounds all fine but is that good enough for an (self-proclaimed) god?
He has to come in corrupted form of an Avatar of Khaine as its only natural that such divine, vile soul and ego has the body to fit person of such status.
Sotahullu wrote: Asdrubael Vect with his pleasure boat sounds all fine but is that good enough for an (self-proclaimed) god?
He has to come in corrupted form of an Avatar of Khaine as its only natural that such divine, vile soul and ego has the body to fit person of such status.
The Supreme Overlord is no god, merely the first among equals, proof that one does not need to be trueborn to get far in life. He's declared himself a living Dark Muse, but they're not deities so much as aspirational figures for dark eldar to emulate.
Sotahullu wrote: Asdrubael Vect with his pleasure boat sounds all fine but is that good enough for an (self-proclaimed) god?
He has to come in corrupted form of an Avatar of Khaine as its only natural that such divine, vile soul and ego has the body to fit person of such status.
The Supreme Overlord is no god, merely the first among equals, proof that one does not need to be trueborn to get far in life. He's declared himself a living Dark Muse, but they're not deities so much as aspirational figures for dark eldar to emulate.
This, vect is the epitome of a good off screen character. He doesn't get his hands dirty generally, he isn't some avengers style super bad guy. He's just the big boss in charge of the gang.
That said, some more characters would be good, but a big vehicle/model that isn't captain pimplord himself would be better.
I'm not even sure the Dark Eldar need that much in terms of new stuff - some different or named characters, possibly one on a jetbike or skyboard. What they really need is the existing stuff fleshing out again. The current index and the previous codex before it just made them bloody boring. They need tonnes of gadgets, evil-sounding weapons and cunning annoying shenanigans - and they just lost all of that. Fer Christ's sake, the wyches don't even get special weapons any more. The haemonculus has a single bloody load-out. There's just nothing in there to get excited about.
Sotahullu wrote: Asdrubael Vect with his pleasure boat sounds all fine but is that good enough for an (self-proclaimed) god?
He has to come in corrupted form of an Avatar of Khaine as its only natural that such divine, vile soul and ego has the body to fit person of such status.
The Supreme Overlord is no god, merely the first among equals, proof that one does not need to be trueborn to get far in life. He's declared himself a living Dark Muse, but they're not deities so much as aspirational figures for dark eldar to emulate.
Vect, being inspirational figure? Being example for "common" folk that even they can reach some vague position of power? First among equals? These sound ramblings of the slaves, the serfs, the weaklings, the victims and the cowards who don't even dare to say anything bad about the Supreme Overlord.
Vect only cares about absolute power, absolute control and entertainment. If person does not submit to these clauses there is no use for such person. Tyrant and megalomaniac in the extreme that more Drukhari has died out of "not being funny/useful" then any would be assasin.
Besides, being "god"or Dark Muse is just more power, more control and more entertainment. To actually being close to one even more (so not "god" as in "god" but rather "god-'cause-I-say-so").
Sotahullu wrote: Asdrubael Vect with his pleasure boat sounds all fine but is that good enough for an (self-proclaimed) god?
My thinking was that if the release vect in 10th, the Dias should become a Tantalus, for two reasons:
The current Court of the Archon is one of each- a Sslyth, Lhamaean, Ur-Ghul and Medusa. It can attach to a Kabalite unit led by an Archon- 15 models in total. That's the exact carrying capacity of the Tantalus.
The second reason is that they would have to create a basic Tantalus and a bling up sprue, effectively adding two kits to the plastic range rather than one.
Crispy78 wrote: I'm not even sure the Dark Eldar need that much in terms of new stuff - some different or named characters, possibly one on a jetbike or skyboard. What they really need is the existing stuff fleshing out again. The current index and the previous codex before it just made them bloody boring. They need tonnes of gadgets, evil-sounding weapons and cunning annoying shenanigans - and they just lost all of that. Fer Christ's sake, the wyches don't even get special weapons any more. The haemonculus has a single bloody load-out. There's just nothing in there to get excited about.
So no and yes.
I say a big no to the army not needing new stuff. It needs all of the stuff you mentioned and more. Let's see what we could/should have:
Named:
Vect- discussed above.
Malys- Now Yvraine may have messed up Malys, who would have a similar look. Personally, I think Commorragh is big enough for two classy fem-bosses.
Sliscus- I always liked him, and I think that he's important for his connections to Corsairs, and GW should lean into that.
Sathonyx- Not as necessary as some of the others, but I still like him- he'd also be another named Wych to blance out named Archons
Kheradruahk- I have wanted this character to be a model for as long as the range has existed, because he's been there in the lore since the beginning.
*Named Scourge* TBA- So if they give us Kheradruahk, we would then have named characters for 2/3 mercenary groups. Leaving it at 2/3 would be a mistake.
Generic:
New Archon- The old model is weak. M/F build with plenty of options.
Dracon- Lieutenant/ Palatine equivalent. This is really important to reflect power structures in armies that have some mix of Kabal/Cult/Coven.
Succubus- this model is good, and if they keep it, I'm fine with that, though Wych weapon options would be nice.
Hekatrix- Like the Dracon for Cults
Haemonculus- Don't NEED a new model, but again, extra options are needed, and M/F builds would be cool.
Haemonculus Apprentice- like the Dracon for Covens
Bike with options for Archon, Succubus and Haemonculus- preferrably M/F for each. Note lieutenant level characters aren't special enough to have a bike.
Skyboard- as above.
Trueborn- This could be Kabalites with better stats or load out, or whole new models. The Archon's Hand KT was a missed opportunity- they should have been Trueborn.
Blood Brides- Same, but Wych Weapons must return to make this unit (and basic Wyches) work.
Haemoxcytes- Same, but also step it up to a box of 10 for both this unit and basic Wracks
Court- this will be a "one of each" box if it comes in 10th. It shouldn't be though- the composition of a court reveals insights about an Archons history and personality.
Beasts- As above, if released in 10th, it'll be the Master, 1 Fiend, 2 Khymerae and 3 RW Flocks. Again, it shouldn't be; the composition of a master's pack is his/her identity.
Grotesques- they are coming... Just give'm options.
And all of that is without the most important thing: the unforeseen. See, GW wants to build all kinds of new stuff, but they've boxed themselves into a corner by treating this range the way they have for fifteen years. All of the stuff in the list above is a balance that's been owing for four or five editions now, and it's hard for GW to add anything new to this army because they owe us so much that's been missing for so long. Most of us would rather have this list than ANYTHING new. And being GW, they won't listen... They'll give us new stuff that no one asked for or wanted.
For example, I *like* the new berserker Krootox riders and the lone operative mounted dude. They're great models. But I would have been much, much happier with classic Knarloc Riders in plastic and a tripple build Greater Knarloc- One with a heavy weapon platform, one that is a munt for a unit and one that is cargo/utility, because I knew them, I loved them and they never should have taken them away from us in the first place.
As for the yes- the parts where I agreed, yes virtually every unit in this game needs options again; originally I thought I'd build a list of the units that need options the most, but a lot of that make it into the "units this army needs" section.
Dudeface wrote: That said, some more characters would be good, but a big vehicle/model that isn't captain pimplord himself would be better.
Depending how the Dias were to be depicted these days, there's nothing stopping it having a generic alt-build - not sure if we'd be thinking super-heavy in scale here, mind you.
I'm not even a DE player, and there are a few kits I'd want to see:
- Court of the Archon (4 models)
- Beastmaster + beasts (3 sets, one per beast type. Clawed Fiend speed drops to whatever its old value was, with that BM on foot, at least)
- Actual Trueborn kit (unless the Hand of the Archon gets repurposed into that - if it doesn't, a Hand of the Archon unit entry that allows you to use the KT bits)
- Actual Bloodbride kit
- I'm not sure if one already exists, but an equivalent to the above two for the Haemonculi side of things
- Plastic Grotesques, if only for a bit of pose variety in the standard models
- Close combat Scourges, possibly with another wing type that can be interchanged with the existing kit (where I think we have bat wings & feathers?)
- The Mandrake-special-character-whose-name-escapes-me
- Lady Malys, given she keeps cropping up in background mentions
- A Winged Haemonculi, maybe?
- If he's currently still resin, then Urien Rakarth as well
- Vect on Dias (with generic alt-build)
That's without redoing any existing plastics, as they still look pretty good to me.
I honestly don't know what the veteran level units really add though. The game isn't in a state to support flexible loadouts, so the trueborn/brides/thingumy units would basically be just.... kabalites/wyches/wracks with an extra attack/wound maybe.
Dudeface wrote: I honestly don't know what the veteran level units really add though. The game isn't in a state to support flexible loadouts, so the trueborn/brides/thingumy units would basically be just.... kabalites/wyches/wracks with an extra attack/wound maybe.
I promise you, the game is not going to explode if you give things weapons options.
Sotahullu wrote: Asdrubael Vect with his pleasure boat sounds all fine but is that good enough for an (self-proclaimed) god?
My thinking was that if the release vect in 10th, the Dias should become a Tantalus, for two reasons:
The current Court of the Archon is one of each- a Sslyth, Lhamaean, Ur-Ghul and Medusa. It can attach to a Kabalite unit led by an Archon- 15 models in total. That's the exact carrying capacity of the Tantalus.
The second reason is that they would have to create a basic Tantalus and a bling up sprue, effectively adding two kits to the plastic range rather than one.
Crispy78 wrote: I'm not even sure the Dark Eldar need that much in terms of new stuff - some different or named characters, possibly one on a jetbike or skyboard. What they really need is the existing stuff fleshing out again. The current index and the previous codex before it just made them bloody boring. They need tonnes of gadgets, evil-sounding weapons and cunning annoying shenanigans - and they just lost all of that. Fer Christ's sake, the wyches don't even get special weapons any more. The haemonculus has a single bloody load-out. There's just nothing in there to get excited about.
So no and yes.
I say a big no to the army not needing new stuff. It needs all of the stuff you mentioned and more. Let's see what we could/should have:
Named:
Vect- discussed above.
Malys- Now Yvraine may have messed up Malys, who would have a similar look. Personally, I think Commorragh is big enough for two classy fem-bosses.
Sliscus- I always liked him, and I think that he's important for his connections to Corsairs, and GW should lean into that.
Sathonyx- Not as necessary as some of the others, but I still like him- he'd also be another named Wych to blance out named Archons
Kheradruahk- I have wanted this character to be a model for as long as the range has existed, because he's been there in the lore since the beginning.
*Named Scourge* TBA- So if they give us Kheradruahk, we would then have named characters for 2/3 mercenary groups. Leaving it at 2/3 would be a mistake.
Generic:
New Archon- The old model is weak. M/F build with plenty of options.
Dracon- Lieutenant/ Palatine equivalent. This is really important to reflect power structures in armies that have some mix of Kabal/Cult/Coven.
Succubus- this model is good, and if they keep it, I'm fine with that, though Wych weapon options would be nice.
Hekatrix- Like the Dracon for Cults
Haemonculus- Don't NEED a new model, but again, extra options are needed, and M/F builds would be cool.
Haemonculus Apprentice- like the Dracon for Covens
Bike with options for Archon, Succubus and Haemonculus- preferrably M/F for each. Note lieutenant level characters aren't special enough to have a bike.
Skyboard- as above.
Trueborn- This could be Kabalites with better stats or load out, or whole new models. The Archon's Hand KT was a missed opportunity- they should have been Trueborn.
Blood Brides- Same, but Wych Weapons must return to make this unit (and basic Wyches) work.
Haemoxcytes- Same, but also step it up to a box of 10 for both this unit and basic Wracks
Court- this will be a "one of each" box if it comes in 10th. It shouldn't be though- the composition of a court reveals insights about an Archons history and personality.
Beasts- As above, if released in 10th, it'll be the Master, 1 Fiend, 2 Khymerae and 3 RW Flocks. Again, it shouldn't be; the composition of a master's pack is his/her identity.
Grotesques- they are coming... Just give'm options.
And all of that is without the most important thing: the unforeseen. See, GW wants to build all kinds of new stuff, but they've boxed themselves into a corner by treating this range the way they have for fifteen years. All of the stuff in the list above is a balance that's been owing for four or five editions now, and it's hard for GW to add anything new to this army because they owe us so much that's been missing for so long. Most of us would rather have this list than ANYTHING new. And being GW, they won't listen... They'll give us new stuff that no one asked for or wanted.
For example, I *like* the new berserker Krootox riders and the lone operative mounted dude. They're great models. But I would have been much, much happier with classic Knarloc Riders in plastic and a tripple build Greater Knarloc- One with a heavy weapon platform, one that is a munt for a unit and one that is cargo/utility, because I knew them, I loved them and they never should have taken them away from us in the first place.
As for the yes- the parts where I agreed, yes virtually every unit in this game needs options again; originally I thought I'd build a list of the units that need options the most, but a lot of that make it into the "units this army needs" section.
Agreed with all of this.
Also, I know I've beat this drum before, but I add a (generic) Mandrake HQ to the list of things DE needs.
As it stands, all our HQs are focused on melee. This would be an excellent opportunity to mix things up with a character who can both perform at range (ideally with an upgraded Baleblast) and ideally also provide some support abilities in lieu of psychic powers.
Could even tie this into the army mechanic and have the Mandrake spend pain tokens to cast his 'spells'.
Beyond that, I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment above that I want DE to be fun again.
Sotahullu wrote: Vect, being inspirational figure? Being example for "common" folk that even they can reach some vague position of power? First among equals? These sound ramblings of the slaves, the serfs, the weaklings, the victims and the cowards who don't even dare to say anything bad about the Supreme Overlord.
Vect only cares about absolute power, absolute control and entertainment. If person does not submit to these clauses there is no use for such person. Tyrant and megalomaniac in the extreme that more Drukhari has died out of "not being funny/useful" then any would be assasin.
Besides, being "god"or Dark Muse is just more power, more control and more entertainment. To actually being close to one even more (so not "god" as in "god" but rather "god-'cause-I-say-so").
Vect is basically the revolutionary who overthrew the corrupt nobility/drained the swamp and set himself and his cronies up as direct replacements for the old power structure. In some ways, a hierarchy based on treachery and opportunism does allow for more social climbing than one restricted by who one's parents are, and something that he can claim is an improvement for the little people that got him where he is, but there's a lot of suffering either way, and only blood trickling down..
Dudeface wrote: I honestly don't know what the veteran level units really add though. The game isn't in a state to support flexible loadouts, so the trueborn/brides/thingumy units would basically be just.... kabalites/wyches/wracks with an extra attack/wound maybe.
In previous editions, the difference as been both load out and stat enhancements. Either of those work. The units would also have different special rules on the cards. You create the difference between the units mechanically, then you model the difference you've created. In all cases, I see the extra wound being justified as the improved stability of the stock- cloned flesh is not as enduring is that which is created via natural means.
I think that the elites would also have higher quality equipment- so where in the past, Trueborn might have carried more heavies, I see them as just being masterworked up, rather than a higher proportion of specials/heavies.
The thing about the line "I don't know what it would add..." is that what did veteran guardsmen add? What do veteran Space Marines add? Why do you question what DE elites would add without questioning what the elites of other factions add?
To be fair, Veteran Guardsmen (and Conscripts) no longer exist. On the other hand, there is not a Space Marines Veteran squad like there once was. Now we have Sternguard Veterans (with their Sternguard weapons) and Vanguard Veterans with Jump Packs.
This means Trueborn need models with something special to bring to the table for GW to even bother making models and rules. It would need to be something more 40K than trying to translate the Hand of The Archon models into a 40K unit.
alextroy wrote: To be fair, Veteran Guardsmen (and Conscripts) no longer exist. On the other hand, there is not a Space Marines Veteran squad like there once was. Now we have Sternguard Veterans (with their Sternguard weapons) and Vanguard Veterans with Jump Packs.
This means Trueborn need models with something special to bring to the table for GW to even bother making models and rules. It would need to be something more 40K than trying to translate the Hand of The Archon models into a 40K unit.
This. The veteran units for marines have a distinct focus with unique weapons, they're not just tactical marines with more special weapons any more.
If trueborn had totally different weapon loadouts and function rules wise, cool then go for it, but kabalites with more blasters in venoms isn't enough to justify them imo. Same applies to the other two.
To that end, do DE need another t3 4+ infantry unit with ranged poison weapons? The elite units historically are a simply better version with the same role as their line equivalents. Given there isn't an elites slot any more, it'll be hard to justify kabalites vs trueborn given they'll only be a handful of points apart assumingly.
Elite units historically have often had more versatility and/or reliability than their line versions. The latter generally comes from slight stat improvements, but the former usually came from access to unusual equipment or different special rules, like Imperial Guard veterans getting infiltrate in the 3.5th codex or access to demolition charges and meltabombs in the 5th edition codex. Space Marine veterans had access to infiltrate/tank hunters/furious charge in 4th and could be much more melee focused in the 4th edition codex, which was later split into sternguard and vanguard with special issue ammunition and assault from deepstrike respectively.
Plus, stat boosts and equipment options can significantly change a unit in feel and role. A unit of nobz is "just" a unit of boyz with better stats and more weapon options... but in practice one works as a horde and the other as elite shock infantry.
Veterans just being a slight stat boost is not a consistent trend, and being unable to differentiate Trueborn would simply be a failure of imagination for GW's rules writers rather than a "historic" barrier.
As it happens, I don't think Space Marine veterans have ever just been Tactical Marines with more special weapons.
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alextroy wrote: To be fair, Veteran Guardsmen (and Conscripts) no longer exist.
The Guard line-up is something of a mess.
There are basic Guardsmen, which is broadly the same it has been for about 3 decades- 1 special weapon, 1 heavy weapon.
Then there are more shooty Guardsmen who can take two special weapons, more punchy Guardsmen who can take two flamers, and more tough Guardsmen who can take... abit of a mess, but roughly 2-3 special weapons. But none of these are veteran Guardsmen in the codex, even though the official kit for one of those units comes in a box labelled with "veteran guardsmen"...
Haighus wrote: Elite units historically have often had more versatility and/or reliability than their line versions. The latter generally comes from slight stat improvements, but the former usually came from access to unusual equipment or different special rules, like Imperial Guard veterans getting infiltrate in the 3.5th codex or access to demolition charges and meltabombs in the 5th edition codex. Space Marine veterans had access to infiltrate/tank hunters/furious charge in 4th and could be much more melee focused in the 4th edition codex, which was later split into sternguard and vanguard with special issue ammunition and assault from deepstrike respectively.
Plus, stat boosts and equipment options can significantly change a unit in feel and role. A unit of nobz is "just" a unit of boyz with better stats and more weapon options... but in practice one works as a horde and the other as elite shock infantry.
Veterans just being a slight stat boost is not a consistent trend, and being unable to differentiate Trueborn would simply be a failure of imagination for GW's rules writers rather than a "historic" barrier.
As it happens, I don't think Space Marine veterans have ever just been Tactical Marines with more special weapons.
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alextroy wrote: To be fair, Veteran Guardsmen (and Conscripts) no longer exist.
The Guard line-up is something of a mess.
There are basic Guardsmen, which is broadly the same it has been for about 3 decades- 1 special weapon, 1 heavy weapon.
Then there are more shooty Guardsmen who can take two special weapons, more punchy Guardsmen who can take two flamers, and more tough Guardsmen who can take... abit of a mess, but roughly 2-3 special weapons. But none of these are veteran Guardsmen in the codex, even though the official kit for one of those units comes in a box labelled with "veteran guardsmen"...
I agree with a lot of your points, but when people think of wanting trueborn they mean they want more darklight in the back of a venom, which is basically the only reason they were taken.
I'll take the chance to clarify, I'm not against trueborn as a completely new unit. I am against them coming back in their old guise. To exist now, I agree they need different stats/loadouts/rules and even then they're still a t3 body with a ranged poison weapon competing with kabalites.
Veteran marines had access to USRs back in the day as you note, but were otherwise +1 attack and leadership + more weapon options, similar to guard etc.
Haighus wrote: Elite units historically have often had more versatility and/or reliability than their line versions. The latter generally comes from slight stat improvements, but the former usually came from access to unusual equipment or different special rules, like Imperial Guard veterans getting infiltrate in the 3.5th codex or access to demolition charges and meltabombs in the 5th edition codex. Space Marine veterans had access to infiltrate/tank hunters/furious charge in 4th and could be much more melee focused in the 4th edition codex, which was later split into sternguard and vanguard with special issue ammunition and assault from deepstrike respectively.
Plus, stat boosts and equipment options can significantly change a unit in feel and role. A unit of nobz is "just" a unit of boyz with better stats and more weapon options... but in practice one works as a horde and the other as elite shock infantry.
Veterans just being a slight stat boost is not a consistent trend, and being unable to differentiate Trueborn would simply be a failure of imagination for GW's rules writers rather than a "historic" barrier.
As it happens, I don't think Space Marine veterans have ever just been Tactical Marines with more special weapons.
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alextroy wrote: To be fair, Veteran Guardsmen (and Conscripts) no longer exist.
The Guard line-up is something of a mess.
There are basic Guardsmen, which is broadly the same it has been for about 3 decades- 1 special weapon, 1 heavy weapon.
Then there are more shooty Guardsmen who can take two special weapons, more punchy Guardsmen who can take two flamers, and more tough Guardsmen who can take... abit of a mess, but roughly 2-3 special weapons. But none of these are veteran Guardsmen in the codex, even though the official kit for one of those units comes in a box labelled with "veteran guardsmen"...
I agree with a lot of your points, but when people think of wanting trueborn they mean they want more darklight in the back of a venom, which is basically the only reason they were taken.
I'll take the chance to clarify, I'm not against trueborn as a completely new unit. I am against them coming back in their old guise. To exist now, I agree they need different stats/loadouts/rules and even then they're still a t3 body with a ranged poison weapon competing with kabalites.
I think that's fair.
Veteran marines had access to USRs back in the day as you note, but were otherwise +1 attack and leadership + more weapon options, similar to guard etc.
But at what point do stat boosts and more weapon options become enough to differentiate a unit? Nobz are just boyz plus, even in lore, but I've never seen the same arguments for removing them as I have for veteran units in other factions. A Space Marine veteran squad that can take a power weapon and power fist instead of a special weapon and heavy weapon on the Tacticals is filling a different role, one specialised in melee. Doubly so if given an extra attack and Furious charge. I feel "but otherwise" is also doing a lot of heavy lifting, as having access to, say, infiltrate completely changes the capabilities and role of the unit.
Note: veterans could never take more than one special, one heavy, and sergeant upgrades in Codex: Space Marines. Sternguard when introduced could take two weapons, either of which could be special or heavy, and each model could upgrade their boltgun to a combi-weapon or stormbolter and had special issue ammunition. So quite a lot more going on.
Haighus wrote: Elite units historically have often had more versatility and/or reliability than their line versions. The latter generally comes from slight stat improvements, but the former usually came from access to unusual equipment or different special rules, like Imperial Guard veterans getting infiltrate in the 3.5th codex or access to demolition charges and meltabombs in the 5th edition codex. Space Marine veterans had access to infiltrate/tank hunters/furious charge in 4th and could be much more melee focused in the 4th edition codex, which was later split into sternguard and vanguard with special issue ammunition and assault from deepstrike respectively.
Plus, stat boosts and equipment options can significantly change a unit in feel and role. A unit of nobz is "just" a unit of boyz with better stats and more weapon options... but in practice one works as a horde and the other as elite shock infantry.
Veterans just being a slight stat boost is not a consistent trend, and being unable to differentiate Trueborn would simply be a failure of imagination for GW's rules writers rather than a "historic" barrier.
As it happens, I don't think Space Marine veterans have ever just been Tactical Marines with more special weapons.
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alextroy wrote: To be fair, Veteran Guardsmen (and Conscripts) no longer exist.
The Guard line-up is something of a mess.
There are basic Guardsmen, which is broadly the same it has been for about 3 decades- 1 special weapon, 1 heavy weapon.
Then there are more shooty Guardsmen who can take two special weapons, more punchy Guardsmen who can take two flamers, and more tough Guardsmen who can take... abit of a mess, but roughly 2-3 special weapons. But none of these are veteran Guardsmen in the codex, even though the official kit for one of those units comes in a box labelled with "veteran guardsmen"...
I agree with a lot of your points, but when people think of wanting trueborn they mean they want more darklight in the back of a venom, which is basically the only reason they were taken.
I'll take the chance to clarify, I'm not against trueborn as a completely new unit. I am against them coming back in their old guise. To exist now, I agree they need different stats/loadouts/rules and even then they're still a t3 body with a ranged poison weapon competing with kabalites.
I think that's fair.
Veteran marines had access to USRs back in the day as you note, but were otherwise +1 attack and leadership + more weapon options, similar to guard etc.
But at what point do stat boosts and more weapon options become enough to differentiate a unit? Nobz are just boyz plus, even in lore, but I've never seen the same arguments for removing them as I have for veteran units in other factions. A Space Marine veteran squad that can take a power weapon and power fist instead of a special weapon and heavy weapon on the Tacticals is filling a different role, one specialised in melee. Doubly so if given an extra attack and Furious charge. I feel "but otherwise" is also doing a lot of heavy lifting, as having access to, say, infiltrate completely changes the capabilities and role of the unit.
Note: veterans could never take more than one special, one heavy, and sergeant upgrades in Codex: Space Marines. Sternguard when introduced could take two weapons, either of which could be special or heavy, and each model could upgrade their boltgun to a combi-weapon or stormbolter and had special issue ammunition. So quite a lot more going on.
Veterans could get more melee weapons however which shared space with assault marines and terminators and some other chapter specific units. Otherwise they were just a better tac squad.
Nobz have always been a different stat line, they had access to better armour, fnp, combi-weapons and a lot of gear not present on other units. They're different enough in my eyes to warrant it.
I come back to: trueborn are OK as a concept as long as they're not just kabalites with more blasters to shove in venoms and roll around blasting things, which is what they were previously. Nor if they're just another variation of kabalite with a marginal difference. They need a niche/purpose.
Haighus wrote: Elite units historically have often had more versatility and/or reliability than their line versions. The latter generally comes from slight stat improvements, but the former usually came from access to unusual equipment or different special rules, like Imperial Guard veterans getting infiltrate in the 3.5th codex or access to demolition charges and meltabombs in the 5th edition codex. Space Marine veterans had access to infiltrate/tank hunters/furious charge in 4th and could be much more melee focused in the 4th edition codex, which was later split into sternguard and vanguard with special issue ammunition and assault from deepstrike respectively.
Plus, stat boosts and equipment options can significantly change a unit in feel and role. A unit of nobz is "just" a unit of boyz with better stats and more weapon options... but in practice one works as a horde and the other as elite shock infantry.
Veterans just being a slight stat boost is not a consistent trend, and being unable to differentiate Trueborn would simply be a failure of imagination for GW's rules writers rather than a "historic" barrier.
As it happens, I don't think Space Marine veterans have ever just been Tactical Marines with more special weapons.
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alextroy wrote: To be fair, Veteran Guardsmen (and Conscripts) no longer exist.
The Guard line-up is something of a mess.
There are basic Guardsmen, which is broadly the same it has been for about 3 decades- 1 special weapon, 1 heavy weapon.
Then there are more shooty Guardsmen who can take two special weapons, more punchy Guardsmen who can take two flamers, and more tough Guardsmen who can take... abit of a mess, but roughly 2-3 special weapons. But none of these are veteran Guardsmen in the codex, even though the official kit for one of those units comes in a box labelled with "veteran guardsmen"...
I agree with a lot of your points, but when people think of wanting trueborn they mean they want more darklight in the back of a venom, which is basically the only reason they were taken.
I'll take the chance to clarify, I'm not against trueborn as a completely new unit. I am against them coming back in their old guise. To exist now, I agree they need different stats/loadouts/rules and even then they're still a t3 body with a ranged poison weapon competing with kabalites.
I think that's fair.
Veteran marines had access to USRs back in the day as you note, but were otherwise +1 attack and leadership + more weapon options, similar to guard etc.
But at what point do stat boosts and more weapon options become enough to differentiate a unit? Nobz are just boyz plus, even in lore, but I've never seen the same arguments for removing them as I have for veteran units in other factions. A Space Marine veteran squad that can take a power weapon and power fist instead of a special weapon and heavy weapon on the Tacticals is filling a different role, one specialised in melee. Doubly so if given an extra attack and Furious charge. I feel "but otherwise" is also doing a lot of heavy lifting, as having access to, say, infiltrate completely changes the capabilities and role of the unit.
Note: veterans could never take more than one special, one heavy, and sergeant upgrades in Codex: Space Marines. Sternguard when introduced could take two weapons, either of which could be special or heavy, and each model could upgrade their boltgun to a combi-weapon or stormbolter and had special issue ammunition. So quite a lot more going on.
Veterans could get more melee weapons however which shared space with assault marines and terminators and some other chapter specific units. Otherwise they were just a better tac squad.
Nobz have always been a different stat line, they had access to better armour, fnp, combi-weapons and a lot of gear not present on other units. They're different enough in my eyes to warrant it.
I come back to: trueborn are OK as a concept as long as they're not just kabalites with more blasters to shove in venoms and roll around blasting things, which is what they were previously. Nor if they're just another variation of kabalite with a marginal difference. They need a niche/purpose.
Agree re. Trueborn.
I do wonder where the line is for "different enough to be worth it" is though. A veteran Space Marine in 3rd got +1 Ld over a normal Marine, and could pay for +1 attack too. That isn't all that different, which is probably why they added veteran skills in 4th. A Nob in 3rd got +1 strength, +1 wound, and +1 attack. That is definitely more of a change from the basic unit. Would +1 strength alone be enough? That is what differentiated skarboyz from boyz in 3rd. Orks also had half-way house units for equipment too, like 'ard boyz for 'eavy armour and flash gitz for kustom shootas (they were later changed to shooty nobz when nob options got drastically reduced in 4th edition).
Veteran guardsmen got +1 ballistic skill and +1 Ld. That made a huge difference to their reliability as a shooting unit (especially in 4th with target priority). As big a difference as nobz IMO, but only two stats were changed.
My point is that, at some level, most units in 40k are defined by diffences in stats and weapon loadouts, so at what point a unit that is an elite version of another unit becomes distinct isn't clear-cut IMO. Personally I've never had an issue with units that are functionally a full squad of sergeants from more basic units.
In 2024 I wouldn't bother with X+1 unit types. If I was doing Trueborn I'd just make them completely new. I.E. they don't need to be guys carrying Splinter Rifles+"more" special weapons. Give them some new weapon that has a distinct function versus basis Kabalites.
Agreeing with all the sbove statements about Trueborn needing to become a new unit that fills a new niche.
And would like to add that one important reason for them to come back, that is not rules-related, is to expand the Kabal-section of the model range. It feels so… narrow that the only infantry units from the kabal-culture are warriors and archons. When they should kind of be the spine and face of the faction.
Regarding Trueborn, perhaps part of the problem is that the weapon selection is so dismal.
Even a unit as basic as guardsmen have Meltas, Flamers, Plasma and Grenade Launchers, as well as Heavy Bolters, Autocannons, Missile Launchers and Lascannons.
Meanwhile, the hyper-advanced Kabalites have Blaster and Shredder as their only specials, and Dark Lance and Splinter Cannon as their only heavies. So literally half the options of a guardsman squad.
And Trueborn have the exact same options. All four of them. At most, Trueborn can take more weapons, though sometimes they don't even get that.
Hell, even back in 5th, the only thing Trueborn got that Warriors didn't was the option to take an extra melee weapon. Because what I really want from a melee unit is WS4 S3 with no bonus to strength and no AP.
Also worth noting that even the Archon only has the Huskblade to set himself a smidge apart from the Dracon and Sabarite. Otherwise, it's the same Power Sword, Agoniser or Venom Blade for melee, coupled with either the trusty piddle-pistol or a gun with a range so short it would embarrass a dagger.
Put simply, where is the rest of their gear? Can Trueborn really not afford Shardcarbines, Heat Lances or Haywire Blasters?
Moreover, why are they (and the Archon) all stuck using the bog-standard versions of all weapons? Even if GW can't be arsed thinking of new weapons, could they not be wielding the equivalent of Master-Crafted versions? Just something to give them a little more bite and set them apart from the standard troops.
It seems there are plenty of directions you could take them, yet the only one GW ever picks is 'off a cliff'.
vipoid wrote: It seems there are plenty of directions you could take them, yet the only one GW ever picks is 'off a cliff'.
We all seem to agree that what is needed is for them to stand out (be that using new weapons or rules etc.)
Problem with that is due to GW-policy those kind of changes won’t be made without/before them getting a official model-kit. And since that has not happened the most they can do is give them some sort of upgrade rules for Warriors (as they did in 9th) or make them a legends unit (that is still limited to what you can build from the warriors kit, as they did in 8th).
Honestly I’m surprised, and glad, that they actually did that upgrade-thing in 9th. It showed a sort of understanding for the problem of the limited HQ-choices, as well as an interest, on the rules-writers’ part, of keeping the trueborn/bloodbrides/wrack+ units present or represented in -some- way.
vipoid wrote: Regarding Trueborn, perhaps part of the problem is that the weapon selection is so dismal.
Even a unit as basic as guardsmen have Meltas, Flamers, Plasma and Grenade Launchers, as well as Heavy Bolters, Autocannons, Missile Launchers and Lascannons.
Meanwhile, the hyper-advanced Kabalites have Blaster and Shredder as their only specials, and Dark Lance and Splinter Cannon as their only heavies. So literally half the options of a guardsman squad.
And Trueborn have the exact same options. All four of them. At most, Trueborn can take more weapons, though sometimes they don't even get that.
Hell, even back in 5th, the only thing Trueborn got that Warriors didn't was the option to take an extra melee weapon. Because what I really want from a melee unit is WS4 S3 with no bonus to strength and no AP.
Also worth noting that even the Archon only has the Huskblade to set himself a smidge apart from the Dracon and Sabarite. Otherwise, it's the same Power Sword, Agoniser or Venom Blade for melee, coupled with either the trusty piddle-pistol or a gun with a range so short it would embarrass a dagger.
Put simply, where is the rest of their gear? Can Trueborn really not afford Shardcarbines, Heat Lances or Haywire Blasters?
Moreover, why are they (and the Archon) all stuck using the bog-standard versions of all weapons? Even if GW can't be arsed thinking of new weapons, could they not be wielding the equivalent of Master-Crafted versions? Just something to give them a little more bite and set them apart from the standard troops.
It seems there are plenty of directions you could take them, yet the only one GW ever picks is 'off a cliff'.
I could have sworn one iteration of Truborn could have shard carbines (otherwise I would not have ordered Scourge arms off eBay to make mine). But yes, your observations are spot on.
I love veteran units where you get to arm them almost with whatever your want (like the variety of old Vet Guardsmen units). But kitbashing is really frowned upon in the current GW meta.
I could have sworn one iteration of Truborn could have shard carbines (otherwise I would not have ordered Scourge arms off eBay to make mine). But yes, your observations are spot on.
I love veteran units where you get to arm them almost with whatever your want (like the variety of old Vet Guardsmen units). But kitbashing is really frowned upon in the current GW meta.
They could in 5th efition, when they were introduced.
My read on it is that it was basically what you where meant to do with the extra scourge arms, you got from equipping them with special weapons.
Those rules and model-kits in that re-launch was very smartly put together
I'd be okay with something new that has a new role, and I agree that the weapon selection is too lean, and that fixing that might be what we need to do good elites for each of Kabalites, Cults and Covens. But I was also fine with what 9th gave us; you can do fun stuff with bare heads for troops and helmets for elites- an old trick I picked up being a Sisters player in the lean years from 4th-8th.
Because for me, it's never been about gaming pieces; I wrote earlier about how these units, as well as lieutenant level commanders allow you to spin a narrative.
In a small army- let's just say HQ + 2 troops for each of the three troop types. Here, things are equal- you can't tell which of the three factions has the most prestige, and you'd be hard pressed to figure out by looking who even called the raid. Now drop the Haemonculus and Succubus down to lieutenant level and beef one Kabalite unit to Truborn, and suddenly I can tell that the Archon is the boss and likely called the raid.
And all that is before load out and stats.
The story of my DE army is that the Archon's splinter realm was devestated by the daemons that infiltrated Commorragh when Yvraine did her raise the dead thing. As such, the Truborn of his house have deserted him. He makes a deal with a Lhamaean to acquire poison distilleries; the two of them sponsor opposing Wych Cults, and the arena dead are gifted to a Haemonculus who lives in an obliette beneath the arena.
With elite units and lieutenant level leaders, the story makes sense and manifests on the table. Without those units, it's vaguely related fiction with no impact on the actual game whatsoever. I can approximate it using Crusade- my Archon can start Heroic (or even just Battle Hardened) while my Succubus and Haemonculus start green, but that takes some of the fun out of Crusading, as my Archon doesn't have far to go before he maxes out.
Haighus wrote: Plus, stat boosts and equipment options can significantly change a unit in feel and role. A unit of nobz is "just" a unit of boyz with better stats and more weapon options... but in practice one works as a horde and the other as elite shock infantry.
You would pick probably a perfect example where stat increases is enough to make for different units. Knobs are (in 10th Edition):
+1 Save
+1 Wound
-1 OC
+1 Strength & Attack (Close Combat Weapon)
Big Choppas instead of Choppas
Kombi-Weapon instead of Shoota
There is definitely a point where a few changes makes for a different unit and Knobs crossed that line with room to spare.
But none of these are veteran Guardsmen in the codex, even though the official kit for one of those units comes in a box labelled with "veteran guardsmen"...
Spoiler:
This Kill Team box is named Veteran Guardsmen to differentiate them from the Guardsmen Fire Team in the Kill Team Compendium. As you noted, there is no Veteran Guardsmen unit in 40K, where this box makes the Death Korps Of Krieg unit.
So just read the new WD mag showcasing new carnivore kroot lineup etc (wasn't new for me because I freq gw site anyway) and their lore bit has me scratch my head concerning TAU which were as far as I could tell the least evil of all the Xenos..
But now they are practically presented as literal slavedrivers rather than subgroups willingly joining them for the greater good.. or am I misreading something here?
Tau have always walked the line between "join us we are friends" and "join us or die".
I think its best to think of them as the least Xenophobic race in the Galaxy of the major races. They are willing to have other races as part of their social structure; but that doesn't mean everyone in their society is equal; treated as equal or there by pure free will.
Tau 100% do conquer worlds and take them from other races.
What Overread said. The Taus schtick isn't that they are xenophobic or religious fundamentalists, etc. like most factions It's that they are expansionsts and colonizers. Its a different flavor of bad guy that requires a bit more nuance to understand.
All are equal under the Greater Good, but some are More Equal Than Others.
Like the Great Crusade, if they can bring your planet into the fold peacefully through diplomacy? Groovy, baby! If not? Well I’m afraid it’s Smashing Your Face In O’Clock.
You’re not less of a mugger because you end your demand with “please” and say “thank you” when they’ve handed it over (and the watch!)
The current ambiguity over the Vespid’s Communion Helms points to this. Now, they could genuinely be the key to all diplomatic efforts, speaking each other’s language and understanding each other’s societal norms. Or, as is hinted, there could be incredibly nefarious things going on in that tech.
We’ve a good conversation going on in 40K Background about this sort of thing where essentially, if you look at things from certain angles, the Tau are either incredibly virtuous, or hideously malevolent, and indeed everything in between.
Saying they are the least bad isn't really accurate. There's nothing good about someone who shows up and says all your base are belong to us. Even if they seem like they go about it in a nice way, the truth of the matter is all your resources, your art, culture,society, history, and your future now belong to them and they will do with that as they please whether you like it or not. They've already demonstrated themselves to not be above genocide and xenophobia where it makes sense (see also their purge of the "hateful Reek"). Just because they ask questions befire pulling the trigger doesn't really make them less bad than those races who pull the trigger first. They're differently bad, but not really more good.
The 3rd edition Tau codex (their first codex) explicitly stated that "the Tau are not overtly hostile" and that "The Tau Empire also encompasses several alien races who have been subsumed into the empire voluntarily or whose services are bought through trade agreement", with nothing to overtly contradict either statement.
This depiction has changed considerably over the years, presumably to better align the Tau with the general 'grim darkness' of 40K, and neither statement appears in the current codex, where the Tau's entreatment to other races is explicitly referred to as "Gunboat Diplomacy" and it's stated that races that won't join "cannot be left to threaten the Empire in their ignorance".
So, it's been a fairly substantial change in depiction, but not a particularly huge stretch to interpret the earlier depictions as Tau propaganda
Or both are true. Earlier on Tau were weaker and more likely to push for peaceful integrations, while later they have become more powerful themselves and more jaded after running into factions like the Tyranids, Necrons, Orks, and Imperium, and decided that expansion is necessary, peaceful or not.
It might also be that Tau early expansions were more peaceful as they started exploring, settling and gaining new worlds. However as they expanded they encountered more violent races over and over again. There's been a clear escalation and need to expand as they realise that things like the Imperium might just be as big as they claim and its not propaganda!
Or that literal demons could be some kind of twisted reality
So they've gone from steady explore and expand into rapid expansion and that necessitates more swift conquest/aggressive diplomacy than in the past.
Also when it comes to codex the content can vary depending on the aspect it focuses on. Most codex have a focus for the narrative which can even be the choice of narrators voice for the codex. Eg early Tyranid ones were very much written from the view of Imperial Scientists whilst more recent ones include more overall narrator voices and then dip into race specific viewpoints (often Imperial).
Plus in general we see each codex advance the story somewhat with earlier parts of the narrative covered by earlier books often being more glossed over and whatever core current story is the focus becomes the main element. So you can certainly have elements change between codex reflecting shifts and changes in the factions over time; or even in different regions where different military operations in in effect
It's pretty explicit if you've been with 40k for more than one edition.
The T'au were more peaceful, then came the Orks, then the Drukahri, then the Imperium, then the Tyranids, then the forces of Chaos, then the Necrons.
Now the T'au don't take risks. The Water Caste still makes diplomatic overtures but the Fire and Air Castes are always there to make sure whoever the diplomats are speaking to understand that the T'au aren't taking no for an answer anymore.
Fool me once into thinking Titans are real or that giving a welcome party to necrons is a bad idea...we are going to build our own titans and stop taking no for an answer when we want that useful territory so we dont get fooled again
The thing is, the T’au can lead with offers of alliance and/or trade and have them be sincerely accepted even now, and still honour them. They just won’t mention the plastek fist of the Fire Caste that was previously heralded as a defence against pirates or whatever can just as easily punch you in the face.
Nevelon wrote: Related, do we know if W+ is giving out swag discount coupons again this year instead of gift cards like the first year, and would they work on them?
They're sticking with merchandise discount:
Warhammer Community wrote:There will also be regular exclusive promotions and giveaways. Coming up in October, all subscribers can get 20% off at the Warhammer Merch store if you’re signed up before the 30th of September.
Nevelon wrote: Related, do we know if W+ is giving out swag discount coupons again this year instead of gift cards like the first year, and would they work on them?
They're sticking with merchandise discount:
Warhammer Community wrote:There will also be regular exclusive promotions and giveaways. Coming up in October, all subscribers can get 20% off at the Warhammer Merch store if you’re signed up before the 30th of September.
Overread wrote: That's a big hike in price if its just the same models. No terrain, rulespack, cards or anything?
All of them now come with unique token sheets so the base £2.50 increase everybody seems to have gotten seems fine but no idea why Scouts and Blooded had to go up an additional £5
Of course if you just want them for 40k those tokens don't do anything for you so just an annoying increase
Overread wrote: That's a big hike in price if its just the same models. No terrain, rulespack, cards or anything?
All of them now come with unique token sheets so the base £2.50 increase everybody seems to have gotten seems fine but no idea why Scouts and Blooded had to go up an additional £5
Of course if you just want them for 40k those tokens don't do anything for you so just an annoying increase
Blooded probably went up because of the Commissar being a character model in 40k.
Blooded probably went up because of the Commissar being a character model in 40k.
Would explain a higher price point to start but not a higher increase. Also the higher starting point wasn't even the case:
Blooded were 51,50€ before, same as the Veteran Guardsmen, Novitiates, Corsairs, Farstalkers, Kasrkin, Hearthkyn, Elucidian Starstriders, Fellgor Ravagers, Navy Breachers and Exaction Squad.
Scouts, Necrons, Gellerpox, Phobos Squad, Legionaries, and Kommandos were 55€.
Then there are the Pathfinders at 47.50€ and the Hand of the Archon and Inquisitorial Agents at 44€ and the Blades of Khaine at 62,50€
Now Corsairs went up to 55€, Hernkyn Jaegers and Brood Brothers got added to 55€, Mandrakes to 62,50€, Kommandos stayed at 55€, Nemesis Claw with a new price point of 60€ together with Blooded which got raised up there and Scouts went up to 62,50€
So for the already existing squads Corsairs got +3,50€, Kommandos stayed the same, Blooded +8,50€ and Scouts +7,50€
So as said above the +3,50€ for Corsairs makes sense with the tokens and the same increase would be fine for the others but why did Scouts and Blooded get a higher increase instead? (Probably simply because people will still buy them at that price point but still)
Manfred von Drakken wrote: I know we're going to be light on News and Rumors for the near future, but the pros and cons of T'au diplomacy are neither News nor Rumors...
If you think there's a problem with how OT a thread is getting, can I draw your attention to the little yellow triangle in the corner of each post, rather than trying to act like a Mod yourself?
chaos0xomega wrote: Saying they are the least bad isn't really accurate. There's nothing good about someone who shows up and says all your base are belong to us. Even if they seem like they go about it in a nice way, the truth of the matter is all your resources, your art, culture,society, history, and your future now belong to them and they will do with that as they please whether you like it or not. They've already demonstrated themselves to not be above genocide and xenophobia where it makes sense (see also their purge of the "hateful Reek"). Just because they ask questions befire pulling the trigger doesn't really make them less bad than those races who pull the trigger first. They're differently bad, but not really more good.
They are the "least bad" because the Imperium will just exterminate you if you aren't human, and also if you are human in a way it doesn't like. Orks will either exterminate you or turn you into cattle. Necrons will either exterminate your or turn you into a science experiment. You should really hope Chaos just exterminates you instead of getting creative. And Tyranids will simply eat you.
And then there is the Dark Eldar, who make an art out of fates worse than genocide.
The Tau meanwhile will just conquer you like any good old fashioned greedy empire.
Except the Tau will also exterminate you if you refuse to be conquered or don't fit with their notion of empire. Again, I direct you to their extermination of the Reek.
chaos0xomega wrote: Except the Tau will also exterminate you if you refuse to be conquered or don't fit with their notion of empire. Again, I direct you to their extermination of the Reek.
"Might exterminate" sounds a lot like "least bad" compared to "will exterminate". Obviously still a far cry from "good", but I don't think anyone was seriously claiming that.
Hey kids, getting a lot of reports that we have gone OT, please take it elsewhere and let this thread sink to the bottom until we've got relevant on topic news once more, cheers! ??
If the biggest news is a box of 10 plastic infantry (scouts) is £50, that is now boxed game territory. You can get a copy of Heroes of Black Reach (sadly discontinued) for that now. Wonder if even the new release pipeline can continue to get traction.
Presumably it's because they want to sell them in boxes of five to 40k players once their Kill Team run ends, same as the Mandrakes and Scorpions among others.
SamusDrake wrote: Blackstone Fortress is no longer on the Warhammer website...
And the Chaos Lord from it is 'sold out online'.
He used to be so common, they'd practically give him away on ebay. A bit tempted to pick up one, just before he's gone forever/scalped to oblivion, but I dunno if I can justify him
Just a gut feeling, but the lack of 40K releases this side of Christmas might be due to a new 40K board game that will indirectly accomplish that goal anyway. Might even be models intended to join the main 40K range further down the line, as Blackstone Fortress has provided.
I'm guessing it'll be either Space Hulk or another Quest game.
SamusDrake wrote: Blackstone Fortress is no longer on the Warhammer website...
And the Chaos Lord from it is 'sold out online'.
He used to be so common, they'd practically give him away on ebay. A bit tempted to pick up one, just before he's gone forever/scalped to oblivion, but I dunno if I can justify him
GW probably just sold him because they didnt have another power armour chaos lord. Now they have a dedicated character kit there is no need to keep him around for main 40k. He is far to anonymous to make up a good character -the legionaire champion has more flair than Obsidius Mallex.
If you didnt miss him before when he was a "common item", no need to get him now.
If he's too boring and not memorable enough, it's only because GW has become far too serious about 40k. If they were going to name him Black Hammer, they should have gone all the way and given him a 'fro.
Still, in the context of GW's insanity it's not so bad he exists. Without him Chaos Lords wouldn't get the option for a thunder hammer. That's something.
Geifer wrote: If he's too boring and not memorable enough, it's only because GW has become far too serious about 40k. If they were going to name him Black Hammer, they should have gone all the way and given him a 'fro.
Still, in the context of GW's insanity it's not so bad he exists. Without him Chaos Lords wouldn't get the option for a thunder hammer. That's something.
Well, he was released in 2018 for BSF when the updated legionaires and general model range update was still a couple of months away. He was still a big boss in the context of the models in BSF. Like I said, he was only brought over to 40k because they didnt bother to do a generic power armour character untill now, 5 years after the legionaires got updated.
I do agree its pretty far out to be able to have a thunder hammer in a CSM army, but I guess its just a "great power weapon" or something similar these days (dont remember and wont bother to look it up).
Heard Krieg would be around February but as always release dates can change at any moment, heard nothing about a Krieg army box before the main release. New Command Squad, Captain, Commissar, Weapon Teams, Artillery, Death Riders, Engineers. Heard nothing about Tanks but if you ask me an upgrade sprue would make sense for that.
SM2 cross-market box called the Recruit Edition. 12 models inside with 10 Gaunts, 1 Ripper Swarm and Tithus. So basically the Target exclusive box but with less Gaunts so if you want Tithus thats your option
StudentOfEtherium wrote: I wonder if the death riders are going to be built off the current rough riders kit, or be something completely unique
Hopefully unique, or Death Riders are losing a lot of character. The horses they ride are heavily, heavily modified to the point they have cloven hooves that look more like a cow (this may actually be reasonably practical*) and are more heavily muscled. Their tails are essentially hairless. They are much more different than simply a horse in a gasmask.
*Based on my hours watching the Hoof GP and my time spent around horses, it is probably much easier to prevent the hypothetical cloven-hoofed horse from going lame due to a foot problem as you can offload the body weight onto the uninjured claw with a block. Both claws need to be injured, whereas only one hoof does for a horse.
In terms of straight up replacements / supplements for Cadian kits, I'd wager they are just the ones called 'Cadian' on their boxes. So I'm not expecting a one for one of Kreig Heavy Weapons or Field Ordnance Battery, however I can see GW inventing a new data sheet like Seige Ordnance Battery, with different weapons on the sprue. I'm also interested to see how things go with the killteam sprue going forward. Knowing the Killteam will be 'legended' in the not too distance future, but that it contains things needed for a command squad (medic, radio guy) I wonder if it gets repacked along with another sprue to make a five man command squad.
chaos0xomega wrote: Interesting thought there if the dkok kill team sprue gets repurposed for use w a bespoke command squad sprue
You might be onto something there. The demo guy would work quite well alongside a minefield marker, if that's on the sprue with the the flag.
You've also got a chest with medals and a grenadier skull helmet for the officer (like the old steel legion).
Blood Angels stuff going on preorder next week. I'll be grabbing those dice and one upgrade kit, the rest of it doesn't really appeal to me. Perhaps I'll also grab the new Lemartes at some point, if he blends in well enough with nuBeakies (ie isnt too tall)
Given people have seen the Supplement from the army boxes, and I believe the books list the Combat Patrol - what are we expecting to see in the new BACP, when it shows up?
Dysartes wrote: Given people have seen the Supplement from the army boxes, and I believe the books list the Combat Patrol - what are we expecting to see in the new BACP, when it shows up?
A discount on buying SG, the new Captain, and retreaded Assault Intercesssors?
Six SG makes the new Blood Angels CP feel really weird and not exciting. I just don't get why CP design is so dull overall compared to Spearheads in AOS so far.
Dysartes wrote: Given people have seen the Supplement from the army boxes, and I believe the books list the Combat Patrol - what are we expecting to see in the new BACP, when it shows up?
In case you haven't seen it yet the new CP was already revealed
Also here's the link for this weeks preorders, in addition to the BA the Sisters and Genestealers newest characters also get individual releases.
Dysartes wrote: Given people have seen the Supplement from the army boxes, and I believe the books list the Combat Patrol - what are we expecting to see in the new BACP, when it shows up?
It's got the new Sanguinary Guard and Captain in it. It seems pretty good value, assuming the SG and captain prices are in line with other similar units. If that's the case you get the Assault Intercessors virtually free. The only problem with that is Assault Intercessors are one of the most commonly available models in SM right now because they're in almost every box. They're also not a unit you really need more than about 10 of, total. So the CP is good value, but in a very weird GW-style way.
It is pretty shady not to release it at the same time as the individual models, IMO. Not sure if that's just standard practice from GW though.
I'd like to say fairly standard, through 8th and 9th it was common for the combat patrol to not release until months ~3-6) after the rest of the range was out, but I feel like it became common more recently for the CP to come within a shorter span or alongside a range update, though I haven't done any research to verify that.
New Valrak rumours, actually some interesting new stuff this time:
Something new for Eldar Corsairs. Yriel, a new Vyper kit with new weapon attachments (not sure if new model, completely reimagined or just reboxed with an upgrade sprue), Jump pack Corsairs with laser weapons (apparently in the style of the old FW Corsairs) and a Warseer? type character are coming for them. Not sure if at the same time as the Craftworlds stuff or at a later date
Krieg is also getting a new big artillery model and a horse riding HQ in addition to the previous rumours.
Considering they updated the bikes I would think a totally new Vyper kit would be more likely than an upgrade sprue. It was actually surprised they did the sniper-bikes rather than an updated Vyper kit way back when that set went out.
The Eldar range has two ways (maybe more) to mount heavy weapons. Side-peg, as used on WS and falcons and the old viper (although it doesn’t actually use the peg), and the bottom mount, used an war walkers, wraithlords, and at least the old guardian platforms. Not sure about the new guardian kits.
The vyper also has the old style on under-bike mount for it’s secondary weapon (twin cats vs cannon)
So a change in how weapon attachments work is relevant, as there is a lot of changes since it first came out.
Honestly I'd just like to see the model feel balanced. Right now when you look at it there's a huge canopy, seat and rear gun but almost no real engine or body of the bike itself.
I suspect if there are corsairs coming, they could well be in a separate book of aeldari agents? Shove Harlequins and Ynnari in there and it justifies its existence imo.
Dudeface wrote: I suspect if there are corsairs coming, they could well be in a separate book of aeldari agents? Shove Harlequins and Ynnari in there and it justifies its existence imo.
Or just a KT release for starters? Winged corsairs fit the current theme. Better then swooping hawks would.
How all the eldar factions work into codexes is a bit of a mess.
Overread wrote: Honestly I'd just like to see the model feel balanced. Right now when you look at it there's a huge canopy, seat and rear gun but almost no real engine or body of the bike itself.
I'm hoping for a new viper that is built on the same frame as the venom and harlequin speeder, like how the jetbikes are all similar bases with race specific elements.
Dysartes wrote: WHC has free datasheets for the units from the new Kill Team box for Warhammer 40k - details here.
Bit sad the Scions can only have one special weapon in there, but they pretty much gave the Carbrines the stat I always wanted for Hotshot Lasguns in general, so, yay?
Edit: Three weapons, I guess, with the servo-sentry and the sniper, I guess.
Quick price structure for the Battleforces:
Assuming the Battleforces will be 180€ like the latest BA army set and would give the 31-39% discount range. Might also be 175€ since thats what the GSC and Sororitas Battleforces were. Probably 180€ for the 40k ones and 175€ for the AoS ones.
Matrindur wrote: Something new for Eldar Corsairs. Yriel, a new Vyper kit with new weapon attachments (not sure if new model, completely reimagined or just reboxed with an upgrade sprue), Jump pack Corsairs with laser weapons (apparently in the style of the old FW Corsairs) and a Warseer? type character are coming for them. Not sure if at the same time as the Craftworlds stuff or at a later date
People still fall for this nonsense?
Just throw a dart at the list of finecast/ancient/squatted FW models and presto, you have his "rumors". Then add list of disclaimers and hedging 3x than the "prediction" (to cover your ass when you inevitably get things wrong) and you're good to go. Eldar are trivially easy with this, because you either have release that is lord + aspect squad (finecast + ancient) or Yriel + Vyper (same). If it turns out GW didn't do obvious thing this time and it's say plastic Hornet (drawn from squatted FW models Eldar list)? Simple, make excuse you thought it was Vyper with upgrade sprue (something he literally did multiple times in the past) and easily impressed children crowd will eat it without lube and claim he was cOrReCt forgetting every single detail was wrong
To demonstrate, his last "rumor" was Armoured Orks (completely wrong, light armor, and he overhedged thinking blatantly easy guess in last resin unit, tankbustaz, won't appear here due to lack of vehicles so went super vague in case it was scarboyz or something but how incompetent you need to be to not recognize such iconic unit as tankbustaz from even most blurry photo or vague description) vs Ogryns (doubly wrong). But he claimed ratlings (take a guess, what is last IG resin unit?) will be later too so usual crowd will claim he was rIgHt Nostradamus style despite getting every detail wrong
Krieg is also getting a new big artillery model and a horse riding HQ in addition to the previous rumours.
I often forget about Dakka's ignore button, but it really is a lovely feature.
Valrak calling Ogryns wrong as a speculative balance for a Ratling Kill-Team due to not knowing the new boxed set is balanced more as attackers vs defenders is considerably more forgiveable than looking at the new Tankbustas and calling them "lightly armoured" just to "debunk" his claim of "armoured orks"
The man does not know and never has known the names of any unit that isn't a Loyalist Astarte, this is as true as his record is sound.
The battleforces seem decent, but I doubt I'll be getting one even if I somehow scrape together the funds. And that's okay, I don't think any of them are really that useful for me. I already have everything from the DA one, and the Knights one contains yet another Questoris model, which I don't really need (the armigers would be nice though). I don't play Necrons, Tau, or Sisters (anymore, sold that army a few months ago). The boxes look like a pretty nice bundle in each, but the only one I could see people buying multiples of would be the Tau one, or maybe the Knights (funnily enough, 2 Knights boxes would get you a playable 2k army, although you might want to find yourself some Imperial Agents for scoring).
Lots of you have gotten in touch over the last few weeks with your thoughts on the way that Deathwatch Kill Teams now work in games of Warhammer 40,000. Ok, we hear you - a couple of squads is not enough, you want to mobilise the might of a full Watch Fortress!
While such deployments are rare in the 41st Millennium, they are not unknown, and the Ordo Xenos (and the Warhammer Studio, for that matter) is not deaf to the many calls for aid.
So we can confirm today that, in December, we’ll be releasing a digital update with more options to take your Deathwatch army to the field and lay low the alien menace. Watch this space....
What is that, four to six weeks of getting feedback and fretting over what to do with it, and then three months of work on the side at best to give Deathwatch players back what they lost? I foresee amazing results.
Nice to see GW isn't shy about acknowledging Emprah's Kiddies. It's much better than to pretend a thing a little further out isn't happening until they're ready to reveal it three months before release.
I'm not thrilled by most of those battleforces. I don't know, they look kind of small. Good for my wallet, I guess. I might take an interest in the Dark Angels box. I love Terminators, wouldn't mind getting my hands on one edgelord squad and since I already have Girlyman, what's the harm in adding Lionel? It's probably going to come down to availability. Last year was a dud, even though I was interested.
Dark Angels and Necron boxes lose points for the named character in each - I've already got the Lion, which means needing to move a copy on if I were to pick that one up. I don't have the Void Dragon, though, so that would work nicely with my current Necrons.
Knights box is another option, as that would pair well with the other Knights I've yet to build, including the older Battleforce with the Castellan in.
Nice theme to the "Sisters" box, while the Tau box is, as ever, a waste of a slot.
Dysartes wrote: Dark Angels and Necron boxes lose points for the named character in each - I've already got the Lion, which means needing to move a copy on if I were to pick that one up. I don't have the Void Dragon, though, so that would work nicely with my current Necrons.
Knights box is another option, as that would pair well with the other Knights I've yet to build, including the older Battleforce with the Castellan in.
Nice theme to the "Sisters" box, while the Tau box is, as ever, a waste of a slot.
Yeah, I find the choices for Dark Angels and Necrons curious. Neither is likely to appeal to existing players of either faction; I mean, how many Necrons players don't have a Void Dragon already? I get that they're generally not marketed toward existing players, but they do acknowledge their appeal to those folks.
Thing is GW doesn't need to sell models to an existing major Necron fan who has gone beyond a few models and already has an army. That person is already buying and all a discount box does is speed up their buying.
Instead GW is clearly aiming to make these sets more and more targeted toward both new customers and new players of armies. Including fancy key models that draw people in at the same time as including one-use only (army rules wise) models helps spread out the stock.
So in theory instead of selling out in 5 seconds they might last a bit longer online and on the shelf which means a greater market distribution. That means more people starting/building new armies; more people getting into the game and GW spreading out their customerbase profits.
They mentioned in the stream that these were intended to be the next step up from the start collecting combat patrols. So not a lot of duplicates from there, but the bits you need to take your army to the next level. Also designed with specific detachments in mind.
I’m out of touch with most of the mechanics these days for armies I don’t play, so no idea how well this was actually executed.
I've started building Necrons and Dark Angels armies at so both of their boxes work for me as the only things I have from either box is Warriors. More of a question of which one to get if I can get one.
I expect the Knights one will be most in demand this year
Dysartes wrote: Dark Angels and Necron boxes lose points for the named character in each - I've already got the Lion, which means needing to move a copy on if I were to pick that one up. I don't have the Void Dragon, though, so that would work nicely with my current Necrons.
Knights box is another option, as that would pair well with the other Knights I've yet to build, including the older Battleforce with the Castellan in.
Nice theme to the "Sisters" box, while the Tau box is, as ever, a waste of a slot.
Yeah, I find the choices for Dark Angels and Necrons curious. Neither is likely to appeal to existing players of either faction; I mean, how many Necrons players don't have a Void Dragon already? I get that they're generally not marketed toward existing players, but they do acknowledge their appeal to those folks.
As noted, I'm completely C'Tan-less at present, but I accept I may be an oddity.
To address Irbis VDS- the warcom article clearly references Ogryn and Bullgryn as not benefiting from the scarper rule that the ratings have, so clearly valuable knows something we don't yet and is 100% on the money, as the scarpwr rule wouldn't reference ofryn/bulletin if they weren't part of the kill team.
Not going to defend Irbis going off the deep end there, but if Valrak reported Ratlings & Ogryns in the box, then people shouldn't be marking that as 100% accurate - from the reporting yesterday, the box doth not contain any Ogryns.
Dysartes wrote: Dark Angels and Necron boxes lose points for the named character in each - I've already got the Lion, which means needing to move a copy on if I were to pick that one up. I don't have the Void Dragon, though, so that would work nicely with my current Necrons.
Knights box is another option, as that would pair well with the other Knights I've yet to build, including the older Battleforce with the Castellan in.
Nice theme to the "Sisters" box, while the Tau box is, as ever, a waste of a slot.
Yeah, I find the choices for Dark Angels and Necrons curious. Neither is likely to appeal to existing players of either faction; I mean, how many Necrons players don't have a Void Dragon already? I get that they're generally not marketed toward existing players, but they do acknowledge their appeal to those folks.
As noted, I'm completely C'Tan-less at present, but I accept I may be an oddity.
Something to consider with existing customers is that GW releases new stuff in waves and some people don't always expand their collection right away because they're fine with what they have at the time, enthusiasm has dimmed, prices climbed to high, focus has shifted to another army and so forth.
I'd look at the inclusion of special characters and unique models not just as a way to disincentivize existing players from buying multiples and making more boxes available to new ones, relatively speaking, but also to give some existing customers a reason to recommit.
Dysartes wrote: Not going to defend Irbis going off the deep end there, but if Valrak reported Ratlings & Ogryns in the box, then people shouldn't be marking that as 100% accurate - from the reporting yesterday, the box doth not contain any Ogryns.
Nah, the rumour wasn't 100% accurate, it's probably about 95% though in reality given the kill team rules facilitate ogryn even if they're not in the box.
I'm also not aware of anyone else suggesting the contents would be ratlings vs orks in any capacity, so in a world where that's the only rumour it's damn near enough in my books. In response to Irbis dealing with whatever PTSD that is, no it wasn't obvious the box would be orks, nor even IG at all given they had the release prior. Following the flawed logic of "it was obvious given ratlings are the only finecast unit left", what happened to want them to make drop tempestus first, which by the same logic is not an obvious choice and an oddity.
Yeah, I find the choices for Dark Angels and Necrons curious. Neither is likely to appeal to existing players of either faction; I mean, how many Necrons players don't have a Void Dragon already? I get that they're generally not marketed toward existing players, but they do acknowledge their appeal to those folks.
But imagine how cool it would be a to have a mysterious commander in black hood and cloak leading your dark angels, and then, blam, you replace it with a green El Jonson with his head bared -it was the primarch all along!
Quick price structure for the Battleforces:
Assuming the Battleforces will be 180€ like the latest BA army set and would give the 31-39% discount range. Might also be 175€ since thats what the GSC and Sororitas Battleforces were. Probably 180€ for the 40k ones and 175€ for the AoS ones.
Thanks man this is why I'm here, AoS calculations incoming?
Those are over in the AoS Thread:
Spoiler:
Matrindur wrote: Quick price structure for the Battleforces:
Assuming the Battleforces will be 180€ like the latest BA army set and would give the 31-39% discount range. Might also be 175€ since thats what the GSC and Sororitas Battleforces were. Probably 180€ for the 40k ones and 175€ for the AoS ones.
Dysartes wrote: Dark Angels and Necron boxes lose points for the named character in each - I've already got the Lion, which means needing to move a copy on if I were to pick that one up. I don't have the Void Dragon, though, so that would work nicely with my current Necrons.
Knights box is another option, as that would pair well with the other Knights I've yet to build, including the older Battleforce with the Castellan in.
Nice theme to the "Sisters" box, while the Tau box is, as ever, a waste of a slot.
Yeah, I find the choices for Dark Angels and Necrons curious. Neither is likely to appeal to existing players of either faction; I mean, how many Necrons players don't have a Void Dragon already? I get that they're generally not marketed toward existing players, but they do acknowledge their appeal to those folks.
If you've bought the partworks magazines into a huge pile of shame these are generally pretty good boxes to convert those forces to Dark Angels and to expand the Necrons (and similar applies to the Sisters too).
Dysartes wrote: Not going to defend Irbis going off the deep end there, but if Valrak reported Ratlings & Ogryns in the box, then people shouldn't be marking that as 100% accurate - from the reporting yesterday, the box doth not contain any Ogryns.
Notably, whether or not they look it, GW seems to think the new Tankbustas are wearing heavy armor:
"As the best of the best, these boyz are larger and stronger than the typical Ork. Coupled with ‘eavy armour, they are durable beasts"
Automatically Appended Next Post: Deathwatch news is interesting. My guess is they'll either update them to have the Astartes keyword in Space Marine chapters or they'll make a version of BSTF for Marines as a new Detachment. Personally I suspect the latter, but I'd prefer the former.
I also highly suspect the whole deal with Deathwatch this edition has been a matter of resculpts being released under the Kill Team line. Almost everything weird with the army lines up with what we've seen for Tankbustas.
Overread wrote: Thing is GW doesn't need to sell models to an existing major Necron fan who has gone beyond a few models and already has an army. That person is already buying and all a discount box does is speed up their buying.
Instead GW is clearly aiming to make these sets more and more targeted toward both new customers and new players of armies. Including fancy key models that draw people in at the same time as including one-use only (army rules wise) models helps spread out the stock.
They're also broadly intended as gifts (although with how fast they go, that's not often a practical thing) - but certainly there's an element that a box with a big cool model is a talking point when unwrapping on Xmas day, and offers a return point for later on "I finally painted that model you got me".
Dysartes wrote: Not going to defend Irbis going off the deep end there, but if Valrak reported Ratlings & Ogryns in the box, then people shouldn't be marking that as 100% accurate - from the reporting yesterday, the box doth not contain any Ogryns.
Notably, whether or not they look it, GW seems to think the new Tankbustas are wearing heavy armor:
"As the best of the best, these boyz are larger and stronger than the typical Ork. Coupled with ‘eavy armour, they are durable beasts"
I think the new models do look like they are wearing 'eavy armour. They are noticeably more armoured than current kits and comparable to the 'eavy armoured models released in the past.
An Eldar box with Reapers and Banshees would have been welcome, but never mind.
Would love the Knight set but the same one sold out last year before I could order it. On the positive side, I think next years codex for both Imperial and Chaos Knights will introduce Combat Patrol boxes anyway. We might not need as many Armigers in our collections, and they could end up sitting on the pile of shame...
I can't see 40K going completely without new releases this side of Christmas, and I still think a 40K boardgame is on the way. Space Hulk feels right, as the Blood Angels have received new models, and if not going for the game-specific sculpts again, they could use Space Hulk to introduce new BA Terminators. Through a few expansions they could also introduce new Deathwing and Wolfguard terminators, along with new Genecult-specific Genestealers.
40K Quest could still happen, and if there's going to be a big split for Chaos, then a dungeon crawl with Inquisition hunting down Chaos Daemons would be a fantastic prelude to that while also being a send-off to a long-serving faction. Maybe the Inquisition has sensed a parting of ways, or even cause it to happen? Maybe the Great-Horned Rat is the mastermind behind it all? Space-Rats anyone?
With BSF now discontinued, I'd be surprised if something new doesn't take its place.
With BSF now discontinued, I'd be surprised if something new doesn't take its place.
I don't know. Cursed City was a mess start to finish and I feel like GW has so much on their plate they don't need another Quest game system.
I think the economics of Brexit and Covid ruined the plan for Cursed City. All of the printed content from China got much harder to come by very quickly, so GW couldn't produce more boxes quickly enough, and all of the add on sets had to be restructured on the fly.
I suspect GW has "solved" most of those issues based on the amount of printed content in all of the Kill Team content from this year.
I was thinking that there will be a new Quest game soon, but whether it's based on 40k or on the Old World (i.e. Warhammer Quest Classic) is at even odds.
That would make a great Quest foundation and they could expand it; not just terminators and genestealers but throw in a few other factions or even be bold and do Rogue Traders and so forth. Lots of factions will happily snoop around a fallen spacehulk and many a stealer (and other ancient things) likely lurk in those drifting hulks
Indeed you could easily do 3 seasons - stealers on the outer regions; Chaos on the inner; then in the centre something super ancient that survived it all just waiting and lurking
Maybe they'll bring back Dreadfleet, except make it Man O War
Also, I have to ask - are those tankbustas in the kill team box? Because every reference to them refers to them as wrecka crews (or krews) or breaka boyz, which sounds like a different unit. The only place they are referred to as tankbustas is in the inset photo for two specific minis, so either the kit makes two different units, one of which is tankbustas and the other something else, or it's a whole new unit instead (unlikely imo).
chaos0xomega wrote: Maybe they'll bring back Dreadfleet, except make it Man O War
Also, I have to ask - are those tankbustas in the kill team box? Because every reference to them refers to them as wrecka crews (or krews) or breaka boyz, which sounds like a different unit. The only place they are referred to as tankbustas is in the inset photo for two specific minis, so either the kit makes two different units, one of which is tankbustas and the other something else, or it's a whole new unit instead (unlikely imo).
The article refers to breaka boyz fighters as the base option, with alternate weapons for specialists. Pictures show breaka boyz with a hammer plus specialists with a rokkit hammer or krusha fists, and Tankbustas as a rokkiteer or gunner. From the sounds of it, a Wrecka Krew is made up of melee breaka boyz and ranged tankbustas. Hopefully the 2 or 3 build options they mention include enough to make a full unit of tank bustas.
chaos0xomega wrote: Maybe they'll bring back Dreadfleet, except make it Man O War .
Honestly I'd love to see Warmaster or Man O War games done for AoS. The system is screaming out for that scale of game so you can have things like God Beasts on the table
I agree, the AoS setting could allow for some pretty far out man o war goodness, but also may not be as narratively compelling given the less interconnected nature of the setting.
chaos0xomega wrote: I agree, the AoS setting could allow for some pretty far out man o war goodness, but also may not be as narratively compelling given the less interconnected nature of the setting.
Could do a one off game of sky ship battles between steampunk dwarves, sky goblins, and flying monsters
As long as we are wishlisting, a quest game set in commorragh as a group of "gladiators" taken from different factions try to escape the cruel freakshow court of the Archon could be fun, and could double as a Drukkhari refresh.
chaos0xomega wrote: Maybe they'll bring back Dreadfleet, except make it Man O War
Also, I have to ask - are those tankbustas in the kill team box? Because every reference to them refers to them as wrecka crews (or krews) or breaka boyz, which sounds like a different unit. The only place they are referred to as tankbustas is in the inset photo for two specific minis, so either the kit makes two different units, one of which is tankbustas and the other something else, or it's a whole new unit instead (unlikely imo).
The article refers to breaka boyz fighters as the base option, with alternate weapons for specialists. Pictures show breaka boyz with a hammer plus specialists with a rokkit hammer or krusha fists, and Tankbustas as a rokkiteer or gunner. From the sounds of it, a Wrecka Krew is made up of melee breaka boyz and ranged tankbustas. Hopefully the 2 or 3 build options they mention include enough to make a full unit of tank bustas.
The big question seems to be whether or not the kit makes two different units or whether its a single datasheet with loadout options. I'm expecting a 3/6 unit out of it, but the Boss Nob being on a different base raises some questions.
Fayric wrote: As long as we are wishlisting, a quest game set in commorragh as a group of "gladiators" taken from different factions try to escape the cruel freakshow court of the Archon could be fun, and could double as a Drukkhari refresh.
A shame that Gorkamorka crashed and burned, as a Commorragh -set Skirmish Series game would've been perfect. Those people who refused to play anything but Space Marines could always play armour-less Astartes struggling to survive as fodder for the pits.
Fayric wrote: As long as we are wishlisting, a quest game set in commorragh as a group of "gladiators" taken from different factions try to escape the cruel freakshow court of the Archon could be fun, and could double as a Drukkhari refresh.
A shame that Gorkamorka crashed and burned, as a Commorragh -set Skirmish Series game would've been perfect. Those people who refused to play anything but Space Marines could always play armour-less Astartes struggling to survive as fodder for the pits.
Both of those are awesome ideas, and both would also make excellent additions to the Quest series.
Fayric wrote: As long as we are wishlisting, a quest game set in commorragh as a group of "gladiators" taken from different factions try to escape the cruel freakshow court of the Archon could be fun, and could double as a Drukkhari refresh.
A shame that Gorkamorka crashed and burned, as a Commorragh -set Skirmish Series game would've been perfect. Those people who refused to play anything but Space Marines could always play armour-less Astartes struggling to survive as fodder for the pits.
It was always weird to me that Speed Freaks didn't have more tie in with the other buggy kits, or at least didn't get marketed that way.
I wonder if the kill team means tankbustas being replaced by a new unit that has tankbustas in it, or if they'll get a new release and the kill team will stay in kill team.
cole1114 wrote: I wonder if the kill team means tankbustas being replaced by a new unit that has tankbustas in it, or if they'll get a new release and the kill team will stay in kill team.
What are the odds it builds 2 units, one shooty, one melee, but the KT uses a few from both sides? But 40k rules would be all of one or the other?
What are the odds it builds 2 units, one shooty, one melee, but the KT uses a few from both sides? But 40k rules would be all of one or the other?
We know that every normal Ork can be build as either Breaka Boy or Tankbusta, this image shows the alternate builds nicely:
So the only one presumably without a dual build is the Nob and that one has a rockkit launcher in one hand and a hammer in the other so can be used for both. So at least from a model point two units would be completely possible.
Wrecka Krew also isn't really a good name for a 40k unit so thats likely just the Kill Team name but Tankbustas and Breaka Boys can easily be used as 40k unit names so I also think two units is very much possible
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Don't think somebody else posted this already:
The 40k Battleforces article was updated with a note about the Knights box that clarifies the Questoris Knight can only be build as an Errant or Paladin. That means the box won't include the extra weapon sprue that has the thunderstrike gauntlet, avenger gatling cannon and the two carapace weapons. It also doesn't include the upgrade sprue for the Canis Rex/Knight Preceptor build.
The missing weapons for the Gallant/Warden/Crusader/Preceptor aren't great but what is really bad is that with 40k current point system you are at an absolute disadvante to not have carapace weapons on your Knights since they are free.
So unless you already have other Questoris Knights you can split the second carapace weapon from, this box only gives you an objective bad Knight build.
This makes the previously best value battleforce into the arguably worst value one depending on your existing collection and how much value you give the missing sprues.
Yeah, I clocked that text when I was talking to a friend about those boxes on Monday - it definitely wasn't there in the original article, but then why use a Knight without a carapace weapon on the box if it isn't going to be included?
Next Valrak rumours:
This time he also talked about expected release dates but as always that can change at any time.
Krieg is in January/February, probably preorder in January with release in February.
After that is Eldar and he thinks the Corsairs stuff is coming with the main wave but that is just his speculation. Knights after that.
After that in spring is Emperors Children time which makes sense since they already teased them. If it was summer or autumn I wouldn't have expected a teaser yet.
Summer's big release will be Space Wolves (and the big HH thing with Salamanders vs Iron Warriors that is likely a new edition/a 2.5 edition) with new Logan Grimnar without sled. Instead he will be surrounded by wolves.
Matrindur wrote: Next Valrak rumours:
This time he also talked about expected release dates but as always that can change at any time.
Krieg is in January/February, probably preorder in January with release in February.
After that is Eldar and he thinks the Corsairs stuff is coming with the main wave but that is just his speculation. Knights after that.
After that in spring is Emperors Children time which makes sense since they already teased them. If it was summer or autumn I wouldn't have expected a teaser yet.
Summer's big release will be Space Wolves (and the big HH thing with Salamanders vs Iron Warriors that is likely a new edition/a 2.5 edition) with new Logan Grimnar without sled. Instead he will be surrounded by wolves.
So, for the sins of daring to exist, daemons is singularly causing world eaters, death guard and thousand sons to all receive books in the "less than 12 months of use" window, along with chaos knights.
There's still far too many factions to comfortably fit in the last year of the edition imo. Assuming June 2026 11th drops:
Between space wolves in, I would assume, June/July - there is remaining:
- tsons
- WE - DG - Chaos knights (could sneak in with loyalist as a paired release?)
- grey knights (they stated they're 2025 already)
- leagues of votann
- drukhari
- daemons, if the rumours are wrong
Matrindur wrote: Next Valrak rumours:
This time he also talked about expected release dates but as always that can change at any time.
Krieg is in January/February, probably preorder in January with release in February.
After that is Eldar and he thinks the Corsairs stuff is coming with the main wave but that is just his speculation. Knights after that.
After that in spring is Emperors Children time which makes sense since they already teased them. If it was summer or autumn I wouldn't have expected a teaser yet.
Summer's big release will be Space Wolves (and the big HH thing with Salamanders vs Iron Warriors that is likely a new edition/a 2.5 edition) with new Logan Grimnar without sled. Instead he will be surrounded by wolves.
So, for the sins of daring to exist, daemons is singularly causing world eaters, death guard and thousand sons to all receive books in the "less than 12 months of use" window, along with chaos knights.
There's still far too many factions to comfortably fit in the last year of the edition imo. Assuming June 2026 11th drops:
Between space wolves in, I would assume, June/July - there is remaining:
- tsons
- WE - DG - Chaos knights (could sneak in with loyalist as a paired release?)
- grey knights (they stated they're 2025 already)
- leagues of votann
- drukhari
- daemons, if the rumours are wrong
Black Templars.
I'd be surprised if Chaos Knights snuck in with loyalist ones since they weren't mentioned with the loyalist ones on the roadmap.
Matrindur wrote: Next Valrak rumours:
This time he also talked about expected release dates but as always that can change at any time.
Krieg is in January/February, probably preorder in January with release in February.
After that is Eldar and he thinks the Corsairs stuff is coming with the main wave but that is just his speculation. Knights after that.
After that in spring is Emperors Children time which makes sense since they already teased them. If it was summer or autumn I wouldn't have expected a teaser yet.
Summer's big release will be Space Wolves (and the big HH thing with Salamanders vs Iron Warriors that is likely a new edition/a 2.5 edition) with new Logan Grimnar without sled. Instead he will be surrounded by wolves.
Thats the nova open roadmap + old vague rumors specified as a summer release, more or less. So pretty believable.
I we/I just get a Grimnar remake after DAs and BAs haul, I will be really dissapointed.
LunarSol wrote: Given the firstborn are probably gone, there's got to be at the very least a new version of Thunderwolves?
Huge TWC and Redemptor Bjorn probably unavoidable. Would be awesome if we got some simple Grey Hunter style intercessors that act more like veterans and have aditional gear, and a curse spitting axe vielding elite executioners unit. You know, cunning yet brutal.
Dudeface wrote: So, for the sins of daring to exist, daemons is singularly causing world eaters, death guard and thousand sons to all receive books in the "less than 12 months of use" window, along with chaos knights.
There's still far too many factions to comfortably fit in the last year of the edition imo. Assuming June 2026 11th drops:
Between space wolves in, I would assume, June/July - there is remaining:
- tsons
- WE - DG - Chaos knights (could sneak in with loyalist as a paired release?)
- grey knights (they stated they're 2025 already)
- leagues of votann
- drukhari
- daemons, if the rumours are wrong
Maybe this is a sign we're getting more than three years for this edition? Dare we hope?
Dudeface wrote: So, for the sins of daring to exist, daemons is singularly causing world eaters, death guard and thousand sons to all receive books in the "less than 12 months of use" window, along with chaos knights.
There's still far too many factions to comfortably fit in the last year of the edition imo. Assuming June 2026 11th drops:
Between space wolves in, I would assume, June/July - there is remaining:
- tsons
- WE - DG - Chaos knights (could sneak in with loyalist as a paired release?)
- grey knights (they stated they're 2025 already)
- leagues of votann
- drukhari
- daemons, if the rumours are wrong
Maybe this is a sign we're getting more than three years for this edition? Dare we hope?
If anything I'd imagine a 10.5 where the books carry over.
LunarSol wrote: Given the firstborn are probably gone, there's got to be at the very least a new version of Thunderwolves?
Long fangs, blood claws/grey hunters, wulfen, wolf guard and thunderwolves are all still around as firstborn iirc.
See, I read that as "probably (going to be) gone".
I'm not sure I'd expect to see much beyond a few characters and actual exclusive units (ie, not Long Fangs). Maybe an upgrade for one of their dreadnoughts?
Dudeface wrote: So, for the sins of daring to exist, daemons is singularly causing world eaters, death guard and thousand sons to all receive books in the "less than 12 months of use" window, along with chaos knights.
There's still far too many factions to comfortably fit in the last year of the edition imo. Assuming June 2026 11th drops:
Between space wolves in, I would assume, June/July - there is remaining:
- tsons
- WE - DG - Chaos knights (could sneak in with loyalist as a paired release?)
- grey knights (they stated they're 2025 already)
- leagues of votann
- drukhari
- daemons, if the rumours are wrong
Maybe this is a sign we're getting more than three years for this edition? Dare we hope?
If anything I'd imagine a 10.5 where the books carry over.
The 8E books carried into 9th, and Age of Sigmar managed three whole editions of not completely borking over the rules.
LunarSol wrote: Given the firstborn are probably gone, there's got to be at the very least a new version of Thunderwolves?
Long fangs, blood claws/grey hunters, wulfen, wolf guard and thunderwolves are all still around as firstborn iirc.
Things are being removed with the codex release. Black Templars still have two versions of Crusaders at the moment, but I assume that will change with their Codex as well.
So, for the sins of daring to exist, daemons is singularly causing world eaters, death guard and thousand sons to all receive books in the "less than 12 months of use" window, along with chaos knights.
There's still far too many factions to comfortably fit in the last year of the edition imo. Assuming June 2026 11th drops:
Between space wolves in, I would assume, June/July - there is remaining:
- tsons
- WE - DG - Chaos knights (could sneak in with loyalist as a paired release?)
- grey knights (they stated they're 2025 already)
- leagues of votann
- drukhari
- daemons, if the rumours are wrong
I don't think his rumours are all that will be released. The start with Krieg/Eldar/Knights is pretty likely to be everything but after that I wouldn't be surprised if there are 1-2 more single hero factions between EC and SW. Those two are just the big multiple kit releases for Spring and Summer but likely not the only releases for that time frame
I could see Dark Eldar being a simple release, although they really do need a few all-resin units updated to plastic. Beastmaster units, and retinue for example. They also deserve a "centerpiece" model or super-character release. While this is far from a "big release", but likely not a "single model or no model" release.
Knight/Chaos Knights are candidates for a no-model release.
Grey knights need a bit of everything, AND they have rumors of a new vehicle kit. This is likely a larger release.
Votann and World Eaters need at least a couple new units each, as they are really only half-armies. I'd wager Jump Pack troops for Votann and Juggernaut riders for WE.
cuda1179 wrote: I could see Dark Eldar being a simple release, although they really do need a few all-resin units updated to plastic. Beastmaster units, and retinue for example. They also deserve a "centerpiece" model or super-character release. While this is far from a "big release", but likely not a "single model or no model" release.
Knight/Chaos Knights are candidates for a no-model release.
Grey knights need a bit of everything, AND they have rumors of a new vehicle kit. This is likely a larger release.
Votann and World Eaters need at least a couple new units each, as they are really only half-armies. I'd wager Jump Pack troops for Votann and Juggernaut riders for WE.
GW stated every release gets at least A model, but if we're honest 50% of the outstanding factions aren't going to be multi-kit releases either.
The most likely model for Death Guard (if they get anything beyond daemons) is probably a new Bell Guy so that the current repurposed Dark Imperium sprue can be taken out of circulation.
Lord Damocles wrote: The most likely model for Death Guard (if they get anything beyond daemons) is probably a new Bell Guy so that the current repurposed Dark Imperium sprue can be taken out of circulation.
Either that or a Deamonic Herald if they are being folded into the respective Legion dexes.
Side note - the Space Marine 2 Recruit Edition starter was back in store when I went in today, and apparently the allocation was quite a bit bigger this time.
Knight/Chaos Knights are candidates for a no-model release.
There is the possibility that Knights might be a shared codex for this edition if there isn't anything on offer for neither faction. But being positive...
A 40K packaged Cerastus seems highly likely, but the Armigers are rather jealous of their Wardog rivals these days. I'd be very surprised if the Tyrant doesn't get it's own dedicated kit.
Combat Patrol boxes might introduce Household foot soldiers that fight alongside a pair of Armigers or Wardogs.
LunarSol wrote: Given the firstborn are probably gone, there's got to be at the very least a new version of Thunderwolves?
Huge TWC and Redemptor Bjorn probably unavoidable. Would be awesome if we got some simple Grey Hunter style intercessors that act more like veterans and have aditional gear, and a curse spitting axe vielding elite executioners unit. You know, cunning yet brutal.
I know this is a lore nitpick and the model team kinda does what they want, but did they ever fix the redemptor burn-out problem?
I know this is a lore nitpick and the model team kinda does what they want, but did they ever fix the redemptor burn-out problem?
They never fixed the 'Thunderhawks can't transport Primaris vehicles' problem, so take a guess...
It's the pilots you see; they're not allowed to admit Primaris onboard as they're too young to ride inside a real military vehicle. Maybe when they're older...
The Plastic Thunderhawk will be announced when GW announces the launch of the Adepticus Aeronaticus faction in 40k, thus ensuring that Marines do not get a big plastic centerpiece model for their army, and in fact lose several vehicle models to the new faction.
*10 man tactical EC marine squad, lots of headplumes etc
* Noise Marines (6 man) squad, some additional new weapon option.
* 3 man elite possessed swordsman unit - (sounds like possessed Palatine Blades to me?)
* A generic lord with options
* Lucius The Eternal
* Fulgrim, nice model with multiple options for his expressions.
No Eidolon. Not aware of any Terminators.
Valrak says no upgrade kit, but I'd be really surprised if that ten man squad was entirely new models and not an upgrade to the existing Chaos Marine sprue like the Night Lords personally. Space Wolf release is supposedly bigger than the EC (though no Russ it seems?)
Basic 10 legionnaires are styled like old EC artwork, "plumed helmets, heresy style shoulder pads and bolters".
Noise Marines are 6 per squad, sonic weapons and some other type of weapon.
Elite 3-man swordsman unit fused with daemons, can have double swords.
New model for Lucius, generic Lord with weapon options, no Eidolon.
Fulgrim of course also returns "apparently one of the best models GW ever made", multiple face options.
Heard nothing about Terminators, upgrade kit or vehicles.
Weird, so noise marines are not the "basic EC infantry battleline squad", and instead the new tac legionnaire squad is? That's odd as it shifts noise marines out of the category they used to occupy alongside rubrics, berserkers, and Plague marines
Unless its part of a change and the other god armies will get upgrade kits for tactical marines as well?
Though honestly you'd think they'd just do a vehicle upgrade kit per-god if that were the case since vehicles/machines are the only things the other god specific armies really share. The rest of the infantry is god specific models.
Perhaps the split between EC tactical squads and Noise Marines is less than you'd think. It's possible BOTH are Battleline I'm placing my money on the 10 man squad basically being the old-school NoiseMarines with bolters and the 6- man squad being sonic weapons. If that's how it works out then it's a good way for older collections to fit themselves into new rules.
Overread wrote: Unless its part of a change and the other god armies will get upgrade kits for tactical marines as well?
Though honestly you'd think they'd just do a vehicle upgrade kit per-god if that were the case since vehicles/machines are the only things the other god specific armies really share. The rest of the infantry is god specific models.
I'm not sure that matters much for rubrics nor plague marines who are effectively tac marines anyway, but I wouldn't say no to some world eater bolter boys.
I'm very suspect you are going to get "EC Legionnaires - its Legionnaires but with different heads/shoulder pads".
I'm imagining it more as "little noise marines" and "big noise marines".
The first mainly get bolters (3/6 to a 5/10 squad?) - plus a few optional sonic/close combat weapons for the rest. Then you get "big noise marines" that are more like Kakophoni that all have big sonic weapons.
chaos0xomega wrote: Weird, so noise marines are not the "basic EC infantry battleline squad", and instead the new tac legionnaire squad is? That's odd as it shifts noise marines out of the category they used to occupy alongside rubrics, berserkers, and Plague marines
Back in the 3rd edition, when the Index Astartes rules for Emperor's Children were released, their standard unit was the Emperor's Children squad that was just like normal CSM but with MoS and the option of giving one trooper a Sonic Blaster or a Doom Siren and another trooper a Blastmaster, that's why the old Emperor's Children unit box (later renamed "Noise Marines") only came with one of each sonic weapon. Noise Marines, which I guess you were still supposed to use the 2nd edition metals for, was a different unit. GW might be returning to that style of force organization.
chaos0xomega wrote: Weird, so noise marines are not the "basic EC infantry battleline squad", and instead the new tac legionnaire squad is? That's odd as it shifts noise marines out of the category they used to occupy alongside rubrics, berserkers, and Plague marines
Kind of makes sense, as Rubrics, Berserkers and Plague marines were just regular marines that were transformed into these special cult troops whilst noise marines were always just a type of troop more associated with the Emperor's Children and not something that happened to them.
MajorWesJanson wrote: May just be a terminology shift or misunderstanding. Kakophani as a version of devastators/ havocs being the "noise marines" would make sense
Or something like what happened with Dark Eldar Grotesques. They used to just be human sized things. Then in an update they renamedthem "Wracks" and gave the name "Grotesques" to a unit of Ogryn sized things
Dysartes wrote: Note - not a Balance Dataslate, but FAQ/errata updates.
Why the heck has the Castigator gone up in cost?
The WarCom article does mention that a Balance Dataslate will be coming "this year" and will include changes to Miracle Dice, Cult Ambush and Codex Space Marines.
Dysartes wrote: Note - not a Balance Dataslate, but FAQ/errata updates.
Why the heck has the Castigator gone up in cost?
The WarCom article does mention that a Balance Dataslate will be coming "this year" and will include changes to Miracle Dice, Cult Ambush and Codex Space Marines.
That's good, because they took marines out back and beat them with a spiked bat.
Christ Almighty, I'm nearly thru painting a Deathwing boarding patrol and DW Knights caught a stray that throws off that list. I don't think I've managed to finish a single force of ab6out size without GW breaking the points of it before I've finished and gotten it on the table since all this stupid faff about balance started. The shift to catering to tournament play is a blight on this hobby.
Prometheum5 wrote: Christ Almighty, I'm nearly thru painting a Deathwing boarding patrol and DW Knights caught a stray that throws off that list. I don't think I've managed to finish a single force of ab6out size without GW breaking the points of it before I've finished and gotten it on the table since all this stupid faff about balance started. The shift to catering to tournament play is a blight on this hobby.
If you chase what's hot you'll always be a bit behind. The trick to most minis games is to build a baseline collection of a faction and add a meta unit here and there as they get their moment. Trying to do a whole army is just impossible.
Prometheum5 wrote: Christ Almighty, I'm nearly thru painting a Deathwing boarding patrol and DW Knights caught a stray that throws off that list. I don't think I've managed to finish a single force of ab6out size without GW breaking the points of it before I've finished and gotten it on the table since all this stupid faff about balance started. The shift to catering to tournament play is a blight on this hobby.
If you chase what's hot you'll always be a bit behind. The trick to most minis games is to build a baseline collection of a faction and add a meta unit here and there as they get their moment. Trying to do a whole army is just impossible.
It sounds like Prometheum is trying to build a base rather than meta-chase. It's generally those of us that build a list and try to stick with it that get boned by the constant updates more than the "meta-chasers".
Lmao chase what's hot, give me a break. I've never in my life looked at playing Dark Angels before but we've been getting into Boarding Actions and I was in a Terminator mood and my local shop still had a Deathwing Assault box. With the increase on DW Knights there is now no Boarding Action 500 pt list you can run with one DWK and one DW Terminator squad and an HQ. We were already considering to house rule Boarding Actions to have a little points overage for elite units and HQs, but the point changes to cater to a specific segment of the player base really make life worse for the rest.
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The Phazer wrote: There needs to be a 40k stable branch and a 40k bleeding edge branch with much different timescales.
This is an insane suggestion to have to make, but I actually love it.
Edit- for people wondering why this pisses me off so much, I'll go back to my 1000pt Nidzilla list that I started on for 10th that was designed to fit foam and everything to be an easy to bring places and play force, and GW broke the points just as I was finishing them up, never got to use it it's happened multiple times. People come up with lists and build to them, and the points changes get in the way of people building and playing with their models.
Prometheum5 wrote: Lmao chase what's hot, give me a break. I've never in my life looked at playing Dark Angels before but we've been getting into Boarding Actions and I was in a Terminator mood and my local shop still had a Deathwing Assault box. With the increase on DW Knights there is now no Boarding Action 500 pt list you can run with one DWK and one DW Terminator squad and an HQ. We were already considering to house rule Boarding Actions to have a little points overage for elite units and HQs, but the point changes to cater to a specific segment of the player base really make life worse for the rest.
These points changes are made assuming you're using Pariah Nexus missions.
If you're playing Crusade or Boarding Actions, the rules assumptions behind the points changes may not be valid anyway.
Prometheum5 wrote: Lmao chase what's hot, give me a break. I've never in my life looked at playing Dark Angels before but we've been getting into Boarding Actions and I was in a Terminator mood and my local shop still had a Deathwing Assault box. With the increase on DW Knights there is now no Boarding Action 500 pt list you can run with one DWK and one DW Terminator squad and an HQ. We were already considering to house rule Boarding Actions to have a little points overage for elite units and HQs, but the point changes to cater to a specific segment of the player base really make life worse for the rest.
These points changes are made assuming you're using Pariah Nexus missions.
If you're playing Crusade or Boarding Actions, the rules assumptions behind the points changes may not be valid anyway.
Don't even get me started on 'seasons', what a crock. There's a cutout listed in the Field Manual for Crusade players, but I guess people who bought Boarding Actions can suck it. This is why trying to find players and play 40k 'the right way' sucks ass.
Prometheum5 wrote: Lmao chase what's hot, give me a break. I've never in my life looked at playing Dark Angels before but we've been getting into Boarding Actions and I was in a Terminator mood and my local shop still had a Deathwing Assault box. With the increase on DW Knights there is now no Boarding Action 500 pt list you can run with one DWK and one DW Terminator squad and an HQ. We were already considering to house rule Boarding Actions to have a little points overage for elite units and HQs, but the point changes to cater to a specific segment of the player base really make life worse for the rest.
Apologies, I missed the "boarding patrol" in that post. My bad making assumptions.
Honestly, that whole ruleset feels like it was designed around the Indexes only. You should absolutely, 100% feel free to adjust things for it as you see fit as GW really hasn't put a lot of thought into it. The Agents codex released on the same day breaks all sorts of things in it.
DWKs are pretty nuts though. 6 wound minimum terminators are no joke, though personally I wish they were more the norm than the exception.
Prometheum5 wrote: Lmao chase what's hot, give me a break. I've never in my life looked at playing Dark Angels before but we've been getting into Boarding Actions and I was in a Terminator mood and my local shop still had a Deathwing Assault box. With the increase on DW Knights there is now no Boarding Action 500 pt list you can run with one DWK and one DW Terminator squad and an HQ. We were already considering to house rule Boarding Actions to have a little points overage for elite units and HQs, but the point changes to cater to a specific segment of the player base really make life worse for the rest.
Apologies, I missed the "boarding patrol" in that post. My bad making assumptions.
Honestly, that whole ruleset feels like it was designed around the Indexes only. You should absolutely, 100% feel free to adjust things for it as you see fit as GW really hasn't put a lot of thought into it. The Agents codex released on the same day breaks all sorts of things in it.
We absolutely would, and I agree with you, but it's tough to do that when all the apps keep current. I really do wish the Indexes at the start of an edition were considered 'Stable' Warhammer for non competitive players, and then maybe swap those with the printed freedom of the codexes as they release of you've got to. The current churn model is so hostile to people who just want to play with their toy soldiers.
Prometheum5 wrote: Lmao chase what's hot, give me a break. I've never in my life looked at playing Dark Angels before but we've been getting into Boarding Actions and I was in a Terminator mood and my local shop still had a Deathwing Assault box. With the increase on DW Knights there is now no Boarding Action 500 pt list you can run with one DWK and one DW Terminator squad and an HQ. We were already considering to house rule Boarding Actions to have a little points overage for elite units and HQs, but the point changes to cater to a specific segment of the player base really make life worse for the rest.
Apologies, I missed the "boarding patrol" in that post. My bad making assumptions.
Honestly, that whole ruleset feels like it was designed around the Indexes only. You should absolutely, 100% feel free to adjust things for it as you see fit as GW really hasn't put a lot of thought into it. The Agents codex released on the same day breaks all sorts of things in it.
We absolutely would, and I agree with you, but it's tough to do that when all the apps keep current. I really do wish the Indexes at the start of an edition were considered 'Stable' Warhammer for non competitive players, and then maybe swap those with the printed freedom of the codexes as they release of you've got to. The current churn model is so hostile to people who just want to play with their toy soldiers.
I think its just something you have to learn to shake off if you're not going to play the standard format. Boarding Patrol is already playing near homebrew rules; like they're just not very well supported or even that well thought out to begin with. That's not to say they aren't fun, just that its very much a "wouldn't it be fun if" system that's very open to "wouldn't it be more fun if" changes to the rules. Like 100% let people play with partial units to save points or what have you. You are almost certainly putting more effort into it than GW has; trust yourself and your friends when you feel like changing something would improve it.
Absolutely agree, and that's all fine for me and my brother playing home games. It's just made it that that's all we do because there's too many hurdles to trying to do that elsewhere with pickup games.
Prometheum5 wrote: Absolutely agree, and that's all fine for me and my brother playing home games. It's just made it that that's all we do because there's too many hurdles to trying to do that elsewhere with pickup games.
Pick up games are always driven by Standard formats, but most communities are generally super happy to support someone looking to play other ways. While most everyone at my shop brings a 2000 point list, more often than not, someone only has 1000 or wants to play Boarding or something and you just make something work with the models you've got. The harsh adherence to the rules doesn't matter as much when playing ways that are already a little compromised from tournament expectations.
Haighus wrote: Its a very pretty model. Hopefully means new Fire Dragons too.
If rumours track then this is the case.
So that would leave us at 3/6 plastic Phoenix lords and 7/9 plastic Aspects (not counting the FW Aspect and lord). They really need to do Karandras, that one missing is weird.
Haighus wrote: Its a very pretty model. Hopefully means new Fire Dragons too.
If rumours track then this is the case.
So that would leave us at 3/6 plastic Phoenix lords and 7/9 plastic Aspects (not counting the FW Aspect and lord). They really need to do Karandras, that one missing is weird.
The road map heavily hinted at swooping hawks. This model heavily hints at Fire dragons. I can't believe they'd do both of those and not do the warp spiders again.
I'm pretty confident that we'll see all the non forge world aspects in plastic next year.
They could decide to milk the Phoenix lords for a while. It wouldn't surprise me if Karandras is saved to be the single hero to go with the 11th edition book.
Chikout wrote: They could decide to milk the Phoenix lords for a while. It wouldn't surprise me if Karandras is saved to be the single hero to go with the 11th edition book.
Chikout wrote: The road map heavily hinted at swooping hawks. This model heavily hints at Fire dragons. I can't believe they'd do both of those and not do the warp spiders again.
Based on their treatment of the Spiders since their initial release, I can - and I can also believe they'd release another new Aspect, and redo the Dark Reapers yet again before they'd even consider doing anything with the Aspect, unfortunately.
I know there was the story going around of Karandras being missed accidentally when the Scorpions were being done - has there been any follow-up to confirm/deny that tidbit, because it is amusing.
Chikout wrote: The road map heavily hinted at swooping hawks. This model heavily hints at Fire dragons. I can't believe they'd do both of those and not do the warp spiders again.
Based on their treatment of the Spiders since their initial release, I can - and I can also believe they'd release another new Aspect, and redo the Dark Reapers yet again before they'd even consider doing anything with the Aspect, unfortunately.
I know there was the story going around of Karandras being missed accidentally when the Scorpions were being done - has there been any follow-up to confirm/deny that tidbit, because it is amusing.
I could see it potentially happening by mixing Karandas up with Ahra who left, so no need for a Phoenix Lord for Scorpions, and then inertia taking over on the decision.
Chikout wrote: The road map heavily hinted at swooping hawks. This model heavily hints at Fire dragons. I can't believe they'd do both of those and not do the warp spiders again.
Based on their treatment of the Spiders since their initial release, I can - and I can also believe they'd release another new Aspect, and redo the Dark Reapers yet again before they'd even consider doing anything with the Aspect, unfortunately.
I know there was the story going around of Karandras being missed accidentally when the Scorpions were being done - has there been any follow-up to confirm/deny that tidbit, because it is amusing.
I could see it potentially happening by mixing Karandas up with Ahra who left, so no need for a Phoenix Lord for Scorpions, and then inertia taking over on the decision.
Or someone got him mixed up with the Kessandras system from Hivestorm.
Karandras will probably be released when they release striking scorpions for 40k main game.
Right now they are just a kill team box, and not listed among the other craftworlders.
I know, for anyone playing Eldar its not much of a difference, but GW probably make a big deal out of it. (and reduce the box to a 5 men squad)
Reiterating Eldar rumours, the new thing is that the Warp Spiders Phoenix Lord is apparently called Leceas? You can listen to how he pronounced it here.
Space Wolves: Logan Grimnar without sled, instead surrounded by Wolves, Njal Stormcaller, Arjac Rockfist and a generic Wolf Priest
Reiterating Eldar rumours, the new thing is that the Warp Spiders Phoenix Lord is apparently called Leceas? You can listen to how he pronounced it here.
Space Wolves: Logan Grimnar without sled, instead surrounded by Wolves, Njal Stormcaller, Arjac Rockfist and a generic Wolf Priest
That's more characters than I thought they'd get. The real question is: How many of their exclusive units survive? I can see all of their not-Tactical, not-Assault, and not-Devastator squads vanishing.
Hopefully they get a Wulfen kit that doesn't look like Russ' hairy backside.
Reiterating Eldar rumours, the new thing is that the Warp Spiders Phoenix Lord is apparently called Leceas? You can listen to how he pronounced it here.
Space Wolves: Logan Grimnar without sled, instead surrounded by Wolves, Njal Stormcaller, Arjac Rockfist and a generic Wolf Priest
That's more characters than I thought they'd get. The real question is: How many of their exclusive units survive? I can see all of their not-Tactical, not-Assault, and not-Devastator squads vanishing.
Hopefully they get a Wulfen kit that doesn't look like Russ' hairy backside.
They're all virtually renamed versions of those units anyway. Grey hunters don't get heavy weapons, but apart from that, they are equipped like the others. In 2nd ed they were even less different weaponwise, even if they all had WS5.
They really need to go back to the metal Eye of Terror wulfen designs. Those looked so much cooler than the weird beastman hybrid things we have currently.
Reiterating Eldar rumours, the new thing is that the Warp Spiders Phoenix Lord is apparently called Leceas? You can listen to how he pronounced it here.
Space Wolves: Logan Grimnar without sled, instead surrounded by Wolves, Njal Stormcaller, Arjac Rockfist and a generic Wolf Priest
So the current possible contender for Warp Spider Phoenix Lord is Lhykosidae, the Wraith Spider. That could be what Valrak is referring to and there are similarities in what he said and the existing name. However, I would not be surprised if GW chose to quietly ignore that bit of lore alongside everything else written by C.S Goto.
Reiterating Eldar rumours, the new thing is that the Warp Spiders Phoenix Lord is apparently called Leceas? You can listen to how he pronounced it here.
Space Wolves: Logan Grimnar without sled, instead surrounded by Wolves, Njal Stormcaller, Arjac Rockfist and a generic Wolf Priest
That's more characters than I thought they'd get. The real question is: How many of their exclusive units survive? I can see all of their not-Tactical, not-Assault, and not-Devastator squads vanishing.
Hopefully they get a Wulfen kit that doesn't look like Russ' hairy backside.
They're all virtually renamed versions of those units anyway. Grey hunters don't get heavy weapons, but apart from that, they are equipped like the others. In 2nd ed they were even less different weaponwise, even if they all had WS5.
They really need to go back to the metal Eye of Terror wulfen designs. Those looked so much cooler than the weird beastman hybrid things we have currently.
Grey hunters have bolter and chainsword, unlike the vanilla tacticals, and used to have counter attack function. SW typically dont have super uniqe units, just the ability to take unusual weapons combinations. Like scouts beeing just usual scouts, exept they could mix in more special weapons and counted as Elite rather than troops. And the option to take a terminator as unit leader/mentor for PA infantry. Most of this would be easy to cover with a single upgrade sprue of extra weapons for your basic primaris units.
Long Fangs used to be able to split fire, so they lost their thing long ago when every other unit got the same ability.
Reiterating Eldar rumours, the new thing is that the Warp Spiders Phoenix Lord is apparently called Leceas? You can listen to how he pronounced it here.
Space Wolves: Logan Grimnar without sled, instead surrounded by Wolves, Njal Stormcaller, Arjac Rockfist and a generic Wolf Priest
That's more characters than I thought they'd get. The real question is: How many of their exclusive units survive? I can see all of their not-Tactical, not-Assault, and not-Devastator squads vanishing.
Hopefully they get a Wulfen kit that doesn't look like Russ' hairy backside.
They're all virtually renamed versions of those units anyway. Grey hunters don't get heavy weapons, but apart from that, they are equipped like the others. In 2nd ed they were even less different weaponwise, even if they all had WS5.
They really need to go back to the metal Eye of Terror wulfen designs. Those looked so much cooler than the weird beastman hybrid things we have currently.
Grey hunters have bolter and chainsword, unlike the vanilla tacticals, and used to have counter attack function. SW typically dont have super uniqe units, just the ability to take unusual weapons combinations. Like scouts beeing just usual scouts, exept they could mix in more special weapons and counted as Elite rather than troops. And the option to take a terminator as unit leader/mentor for PA infantry. Most of this would be easy to cover with a single upgrade sprue of extra weapons for your basic primaris units.
Long Fangs used to be able to split fire, so they lost their thing long ago when every other unit got the same ability.
They've been represented differently across all editions, so it's not really a 'standard' load our for them. In 2nd ed grey hunters were WS5 and could all take powerfists alongside their bolters and bolt pistols. they could take one special weapon. Blood claws were just assault marines with WS5 and double attacks on the charge. In 3rd ed grey hunters were just tacticals that couldn't take a heavy weapon, had bolters and had true grit, which meant they could get an extra attack but no bonus for charging. Blood claws were just assault marines with an extra attack on the charge. They got a special rule that allowed them to move after being charged so they could get more attacks.
In 5th ed they took away true grit and just gave them a pistol and ccw so hunters just had more attacks. They weren't specifically a chainsword, just as reivers use big daggers.
In 8th grey hunters were tacticals that could take a chainsword to get an extra attack. They could then take 2 special weapons instead of one. They had no counter attack, no true grit.
Now in 10th hunters can all have a chainsword and 2 special weapons and can suddenly shoot in the turn they fell back.
They are just tacticals that get fun bling and different rules depending on how the designers are feeling at the time. Grey hunter intercessors will be no different.
Hellebore wrote: In 3rd ed grey hunters were just tacticals that couldn't take a heavy weapon, had bolters and had true grit, which meant they could get an extra attack but no bonus for charging.
Bolters were optional and they could still take power fists (in addition to other options).
Hellebore wrote: In 3rd ed grey hunters were just tacticals that couldn't take a heavy weapon, had bolters and had true grit, which meant they could get an extra attack but no bonus for charging.
Bolters were optional and they could still take power fists (in addition to other options).
Yeah but in 2nd ed every model in the unit could have a powerfist.... in 3rd up to 2 models could take them, which is basically just two 5 man squads with sergeants. They lost their plasma pistol option later in the editions.
The point is that space wolves are really not that unique (like every marine chapter) and so the primarising of them with their coming codex won't actually change them much at all. Most of their actual uniqueness was in the special rules the unit was given, which as I outlined has changed almost every edition...
New Space Wolves rumors from Valrak: To reiterate the existing rumours: new Logan Grimnar, Njal Stormcaller, Arjac Rockfist and Wolf Priest New rumours: New lieutenant with multiple weapon options, sounds like its a Space Wolves specific one? HQ guard unit, three models like Bladeguard with wolves as part of the unit. New SW Scouts, again with a wolf as part of the unit. New Terminator Wolf Guard. New Blood Claws and Grey Hunters.
To reiterate the existing rumours: new Logan Grimnar, Njal Stormcaller, Arjac Rockfist and Wolf Priest
People are missing the key question here, will Logan and Njal survive the incredibly difficult and arduous crossing of the Rubicon Primaris!?
It is an extremely dangerous process and few live to see the other side!
Not sure if you're aware but somewhere in the past edition or so the narrative "advanced" and it was stated that the process of crossing the Rubicon primaris was improved by Cawl and it's now much less risky, as such more and more marines are being converted and chapter heroes and leaders are crossing it as there's no longer as much concern about losing their expertise, skills, and experience to a medical accident or whatever
To reiterate the existing rumours: new Logan Grimnar, Njal Stormcaller, Arjac Rockfist and Wolf Priest
People are missing the key question here, will Logan and Njal survive the incredibly difficult and arduous crossing of the Rubicon Primaris!?
It is an extremely dangerous process and few live to see the other side!
Not sure if you're aware but somewhere in the past edition or so the narrative "advanced" and it was stated that the process of crossing the Rubicon primaris was improved by Cawl and it's now much less risky, as such more and more marines are being converted and chapter heroes and leaders are crossing it as there's no longer as much concern about losing their expertise, skills, and experience to a medical accident or whatever
Where was this stated, and what was stated exactly to indicate this is now the case?
So to be honest I don't remember exactly where, but my recollection was that it was either in a warcom article or on one of the livestreams. I vaguely recall Eddie, I think, saying it but might be misremembering.
I know that it coincided with either the announcement or release of a primarisified character, it might have actually been Dante or Calgar maybe? I know much ado was made about it, and specifically it was stated that experienced heros of the space marines had been reluctant to cross because of the risks posed to their chapters and the imperium as a whole if they were to be lost during the procedure, so it was mostly rank and file guys doing it and the rare officer who was willing to do it under exceptional circumstances, but now that Cawl had refined or improved the process more would be crossing over as it was no longer risky and the benefits were worth it.
According to Lexicanum it was in the third Dark Imperium novel, Godblight, that it was stated the procedure had become much safer, citing chapters 1 and 5.
nothing special, GW writing the background to fit the model releases and it was just a question of time until the move the named heroes over with a small backdoor for doing others first and/or leave some behind if needed
To reiterate the existing rumours: new Logan Grimnar, Njal Stormcaller, Arjac Rockfist and Wolf Priest
People are missing the key question here, will Logan and Njal survive the incredibly difficult and arduous crossing of the Rubicon Primaris!?
It is an extremely dangerous process and few live to see the other side!
Not sure if you're aware but somewhere in the past edition or so the narrative "advanced" and it was stated that the process of crossing the Rubicon primaris was improved by Cawl and it's now much less risky, as such more and more marines are being converted and chapter heroes and leaders are crossing it as there's no longer as much concern about losing their expertise, skills, and experience to a medical accident or whatever
That's lucky! Chapters must have been so concerned, since *checks notes* literally nobody died before the process became safer.
I still think the whole idea of "Primaris" and the arduous and dangerous process was just too too overwrought. A simple "Here's Mark X armor and Marines are taller now because they should be" would have sufficed. There was a huge leap from the RT to 2nd edition marines and then from 2nd to 3rd and no one needed massive new technological changes to explain it.
So yeah, just quietly abandoning the whole "will he dare to cross the Rubric Primaris" was about as suspenseful as "will Spider Man survive this cliff hanger".
(That being said I would pay for good money for a good where, oh, let's say Dark Angel Scout Sergeant Naaman or Space Wolf Lord Krom Dragongaze dies on the operating table as he goes Primaris.)
To reiterate the existing rumours: new Logan Grimnar, Njal Stormcaller, Arjac Rockfist and Wolf Priest
People are missing the key question here, will Logan and Njal survive the incredibly difficult and arduous crossing of the Rubicon Primaris!?
It is an extremely dangerous process and few live to see the other side!
Not sure if you're aware but somewhere in the past edition or so the narrative "advanced" and it was stated that the process of crossing the Rubicon primaris was improved by Cawl and it's now much less risky, as such more and more marines are being converted and chapter heroes and leaders are crossing it as there's no longer as much concern about losing their expertise, skills, and experience to a medical accident or whatever
That's lucky! Chapters must have been so concerned, since *checks notes* literally nobody died before the process became safer.
For some reason I think about the never-before-seen anonymous crewmen that get to follow the main Star Trek cast down to the weird new palnet.
I still think the whole idea of "Primaris" and the arduous and dangerous process was just too too overwrought. A simple "Here's Mark X armor and Marines are taller now because they should be" would have sufficed. There was a huge leap from the RT to 2nd edition marines and then from 2nd to 3rd and no one needed massive new technological changes to explain it.
So yeah, just quietly abandoning the whole "will he dare to cross the Rubric Primaris" was about as suspenseful as "will Spider Man survive this cliff hanger".
(That being said I would pay for good money for a good where, oh, let's say Dark Angel Scout Sergeant Naaman or Space Wolf Lord Krom Dragongaze dies on the operating table as he goes Primaris.)
The "dangerous" part was there to explain why GW didnt provide every named character in Primaris size from the very introduction of Primaris. This way they could drop occasional heroes and say they were forced to make a daring decision to go primaris.
(That being said I would pay for good money for a good where, oh, let's say Dark Angel Scout Sergeant Naaman or Space Wolf Lord Krom Dragongaze dies on the operating table as he goes Primaris.)
Too late, the Scout Sergeant already died... in a Dark Angels codex.
Don't worry, literally dozens of nameless marines died horrifically off-screen under the knives of their new Primaris overlords before Cawl got around to reading the bug reports and issued a patch.
They were mostly Rhino drivers though, so no-one cared.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Battleforce prices, all of them at 190€, 10€ more than last years 40k ones and 15€ more for the AoS ones
That means the discounts are: Tau Empire - 29% Necrons - 30% Adepta Sororitas - 33% Imperial Knights - 36% if you use the full price for the Knight but less depending on how much you value the two missing extra sprues Dark Angels - 36%
Flesh Eater Courts - 28% Ironjawz - 28% Maggotkin of Nurgle - 31% Cities of Sigmar - 29%
Overall average discount is 31.1%, for comparison last year it was 35.7% so not just a higher price but a worse discount too
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: DA one is kind of tempting. Except, I’ve already got The Lion, and there are no guarantees an opponent would accept 40K models in a Heresy game.
I mean its just marines right - I can't see most caring that much as long as they are on the right base and all.
It's not as if you're trying to play blue marines as red marines
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: DA one is kind of tempting. Except, I’ve already got The Lion, and there are no guarantees an opponent would accept 40K models in a Heresy game.
You should not play with that kind of person if they don't accept your Lion from GW as Lion.
Olthannon wrote: That's a great deal on the Knights and DAs if you pick up from a handy FLGS with additional discount.
IK is not that good on account of being the Paladin/Errant version only. As stated above Canis Rex, the current top choice, cannot be built from that box.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: DA one is kind of tempting. Except, I’ve already got The Lion, and there are no guarantees an opponent would accept 40K models in a Heresy game.
You should not play with that kind of person if they don't accept your Lion from GW as Lion.
Matrindur wrote: New Space Wolves rumors from Valrak: To reiterate the existing rumours: new Logan Grimnar, Njal Stormcaller, Arjac Rockfist and Wolf Priest New rumours: New lieutenant with multiple weapon options, sounds like its a Space Wolves specific one? HQ guard unit, three models like Bladeguard with wolves as part of the unit. New SW Scouts, again with a wolf as part of the unit. New Terminator Wolf Guard. New Blood Claws and Grey Hunters.
As far as he heard Grey Hunters and Blood Claws aren't Intercessor upgrades but actual new kits. Five Terminators per box for the Wolf Guard with double bladed axes and other weapons, ranged and melee. Wolf Scouts are also 5 marines and 1 wolf with weapon options including a runic staff. The guard unit aren't Terminators, have rounded shields and each of them has a wolf so 3 marines and 3 wolves. I think these might be the spiritual replacements for Thunderwolf cavalry. While not exactly the same since not riding the wolves, 3 marines and their wolf partners feels like they could take up the same design space and as such cut the Thunderwolf cavalry option
I've seen an army where someone put primaris marines with wolves on a Thunderwolf sized base and I overall think its a vastly better implementation of the idea than cavalry.
Yes, please let the TW Cav die. The one dude as a special character was fine but a regular unit? Bleh. Not least because thunderwolves are supposed to be untameable and Canis only gets a ride because the wolf thinks he's their disabled kid brother, on account of being raised together as pups.
I dont mind TWC, but would not lament them getting moved to legends.
I could imagine a big spectral wolf model in the style of an endless spell would be less silly than the cavalry.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: DA one is kind of tempting. Except, I’ve already got The Lion, and there are no guarantees an opponent would accept 40K models in a Heresy game.
You should not play with that kind of person if they don't accept your Lion from GW as Lion.
But he'd have a historically inaccurate hairline!
Easy solve with one of the helmeted heads which he comes with! Can't see why that would be an issue for a Heresy game, its not really even "counts as" it's literally the correct character...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: DA one is kind of tempting. Except, I’ve already got The Lion, and there are no guarantees an opponent would accept 40K models in a Heresy game.
You should not play with that kind of person if they don't accept your Lion from GW as Lion.
But he'd have a historically inaccurate hairline!
Easy solve with one of the helmeted heads which he comes with! Can't see why that would be an issue for a Heresy game, its not really even "counts as" it's literally the correct character...
Wrong loadout iirc though? I wouldn't bat an eyelid personally but there's more nuts in the HH tree than in 40kafaik.
GaroRobe wrote: What was the timeline between the world eater teases and full reveal?
GW generally works in 3month windows for previewed content at major events.
For teases like this though it can be anything. It might be next week or even a few days before they announce more; it could be months away. There isn't really a pattern, though they "tend" to be more closer than further off when things are running normally. That said we've had things previewed and teased that sometimes took a year or more to actually appear.
GaroRobe wrote: What was the timeline between the world eater teases and full reveal?
I think the first confirmations on a WE range were around 7-9 months prior. Proper model reveals were six months before release, but also there was a leak ahead of this which might have made them reveal some models earlier than planned.
Fingers crossed for more potatocam this time around.
