seeing people speculate that we might be getting an EC vs eldar box set... GW isn't doing the vs boxes anymore, but releasing these two at the same time would certainly make some sense
shoulder pad with studs looks solid. been getting into EC for heresy, after pushing from my GF, so i'm certainly going to appreciate a new supply of bits for that
GaroRobe wrote: What was the timeline between the world eater teases and full reveal?
I think the first confirmations on a WE range were around 7-9 months prior. Proper model reveals were six months before release, but also there was a leak ahead of this which might have made them reveal some models earlier than planned.
Fingers crossed for more potatocam this time around.
Yep. World Eaters got their renders shown at Warhammer Fest in May and the release was the following January or February.
If Emperors Children is being introduced with it's own codex then I'd say it will be in it's own lunch box.
Given that Eldar and Thousand Sons are rival psyker factions, and already established factions and kit ranges, I'd put my money on those being in a battlebox together. This would also be taking a leaf out of the previous edition of AOS where they had a similar box with Lumineth vs Tzeentch...
I'm super happy at the thought of a new CP box for Eldar that might contain Banshees or Reapers. I think I might get another War Walker incase they update them and charge an extra £10 for the fun of it...
I don't think so, GW has mostly given up on duel battleboxes. There was a time they were really common, but they seem to have done away with them entirely now. The only ones left are new-game-editions and for those they like putting Loyalist Marines and Stormcast in as one of the constant repeat factions for each game.
Plus a new edition of 40K just went out so I don't see that happening. Emperors Children would get a launch of their own; any joint release might be something like a Killteam boxed set.
I must agree upon Kill Team being the better game for that kind of thing. They only ended up padding out the previous boxes with crap they wanted to shift, and players only moaned as they only wanted a few models on either side.
SamusDrake wrote: I must agree upon Kill Team being the better game for that kind of thing. They only ended up padding out the previous boxes with crap they wanted to shift, and players only moaned as they only wanted a few models on either side.
It wasn't even stuff they wanted to shift (GW don't sit on stock - if their constant "out of stock" messages are any hint to people )
It was mostly pairing new models with older ones with a view toward new people starting armies. Which often as not annoyed established gamers who were getting old models they didn't need more of and a half army they didn't even collect all to get the new models they really wanted.
A few times you could luck out that two forces you play get put in the same box; or you want to start a new army or didn't have (or didn't have enough) the old models.
But yeah many times it was a case of fishing around and swapping/selling halves and so forth. Quite doable if you're online and active; but a pain for many.
SamusDrake wrote: If Emperors Children is being introduced with it's own codex then I'd say it will be in it's own lunch box.
Given that Eldar and Thousand Sons are rival psyker factions, and already established factions and kit ranges, I'd put my money on those being in a battlebox together. This would also be taking a leaf out of the previous edition of AOS where they had a similar box with Lumineth vs Tzeentch...
Well, maybe so but I'd put my money on an Eldar vs T-Sons box more than an Eldar vs Emperors Children box - if you see what I mean. The Emperors Children will likely get a LAUNCH box. Sorry, I didn't mean to shout but you never know who's listening....
LunarSol wrote: I've seen an army where someone put primaris marines with wolves on a Thunderwolf sized base and I overall think its a vastly better implementation of the idea than cavalry.
It's not rocket surgery. I and many others pointed this out when they first previewed thunderwolf cav however many years ago. But so many people were riding the GW snuff train so hard that marine cav was so cool...
Nice to see that perhaps the dumbest unit ever invented for 40k is hopefully going away.
LunarSol wrote: I've seen an army where someone put primaris marines with wolves on a Thunderwolf sized base and I overall think its a vastly better implementation of the idea than cavalry.
It's not rocket surgery. I and many others pointed this out when they first previewed thunderwolf cav however many years ago. But so many people were riding the GW snuff train so hard that marine cav was so cool...
Nice to see that perhaps the dumbest unit ever invented for 40k is hopefully going away.
That was an era of GW going overboard on themes though.
Blood angels Honour Guard went from being a pretty bog standard SM Command Squad, but with jet packs; to wearing massive wings that definitely never get in the way in melee. Dark angels didn't really get any releases in 5th, but at start of 6th the Deathwing gain the 'knight' version. Grey Knights became its own army to include the baby carrier. Generic space marines get centurions and an even heavier armoured dreadnought (Ironclad).
And much of the stuff produced during that time was awful. you mentioned 2.
The sanguinary guard wings were also ridiculous ornamentation, but people apparently don't like the new ones that don't have them...
They could have avoided the idiocy of the centurions by putting excess dreadnought sarcophagi in where the marine is and made the marine equivalent of Killa Kans...
I hope they also don't go overboard on the Noise Marines. Yes I know going to excess for Slaanesh release...very punny. I just don't want the whole Space Wolf McWolf riding wolves ridiculousness again. I know that Noise Marines are a Slaanesh and Emperor's Children thing but I hope there will be other options for portraying Slaanesh excess other than just noise weapons.
Iracundus wrote: I hope they also don't go overboard on the Noise Marines. Yes I know going to excess for Slaanesh release...very punny. I just don't want the whole Space Wolf McWolf riding wolves ridiculousness again. I know that Noise Marines are a Slaanesh and Emperor's Children thing but I hope there will be other options for portraying Slaanesh excess other than just noise weapons.
From the recent rumour list it sounds like they are getting a general 'legionary' unit to use as the core troops. Noise marines will instead be more of an elites/specialist pick, alongside a melee-focused unit.
That certainly fits recent GW writing which says EC love to specialise in many different things. I doubt its by accident that this fluff mirrors Eldar aspect warriors.
With a huge daemon primarch and Lucius, there should/must be a potent melee side to support them. And as noise marines are an iconic unit they probably have some decent fire support as well. But, if all units "specialise" in dealing out loads of mid range S4-6 attacks there wont be alot of diferent playstyles. Might also be some mandatory list-tailoring to max out some feel no pain equivalent (embrace the pain?).
Perhaps I sound pessimistic, but Im actually really exited about new EC! High hopes for the new range.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Just remember the people who make wacky leader models still have jobs there.
Anyone else not inspired by the General on his robot pony?
He should at least been on a robot lion.
If only Lord Horseyman was wacky. At least he'd have something going for him.
Fayric wrote: With a huge daemon primarch and Lucius, there should/must be a potent melee side to support them. And as noise marines are an iconic unit they probably have some decent fire support as well. But, if all units "specialise" in dealing out loads of mid range S4-6 attacks there wont be alot of diferent playstyles. Might also be some mandatory list-tailoring to max out some feel no pain equivalent (embrace the pain?).
Perhaps I sound pessimistic, but Im actually really exited about new EC! High hopes for the new range.
I'll be happy if they avoid the same pitfalls that hit the World Eaters range so hard. We have things that punch hard! And things that punch extra hard! And things that punch super hard! And standouts that punch extra super hard!
It's not easy to get railroaded so hard into a specific niche as modern GW's unimaginative take on Khorne, but since GW is going to steer well clear of sexual themes and I can't really imagine fat Marines (culinary overindulgence being an option for getting some variety into Slaaneshi models that got some representation in recent years) without rudely stepping on bloated Plague Marine hooves, I could see a lack of variety in the Emperor's Children range as well. I hope that concern is unwarranted.
KidCthulhu wrote: Sadly, the 2E Chaos Codex made the Emperor's Children primarily Noise Marines and it seems that's been the direction ever since.
The 2nd edition Codex was incisive for all four cult legions - especially the Thousand Sons. In CSM Codex 3.5 Emperor's Children had some nifty Daemon weapons and combat drugs, so at least the characters were quite good at close combat. And IIRC you did not have to take the Sonic weapons.
KidCthulhu wrote: Sadly, the 2E Chaos Codex made the Emperor's Children primarily Noise Marines and it seems that's been the direction ever since.
The 2nd edition Codex was incisive for all four cult legions - especially the Thousand Sons. In CSM Codex 3.5 Emperor's Children had some nifty Daemon weapons and combat drugs, so at least the characters were quite good at close combat. And IIRC you did not have to take the Sonic weapons.
I'm hoping they sonic dreadnoughts back, and that they are useful.
Well I've been F5 for Battleforces for 7 years now but that Dark Angels Battleforce might be the first one I didn't manage to get.
That one was gone insanely fast
Matrindur wrote: Well I've been F5 for Battleforces for 7 years now but that Dark Angels Battleforce might be the first one I didn't manage to get.
That one was gone insanely fast
Keep an eye for them coming back into stock later on as GW shuffle allocations around. I missed out on the WE box last year but managed to pick one up around 3 weeks later as some third--party retailers were sent extra. If you know of any stores with "email when available" function use that.
Also don't forget a load of stock gets held back for the physical retail outlets too. So many times it will sell out online but you might have a chance at a local store in person /
Matrindur wrote: Well I've been F5 for Battleforces for 7 years now but that Dark Angels Battleforce might be the first one I didn't manage to get.
That one was gone insanely fast
Oh yeah, that's my fault. That's the one I'm interested in, so of course it's the one that proves most popular and sells out immediately.
Glad I'm not chasing after these things. I'll still buy one if I see it in stock at a discount, but if I don't I won't be sad to miss it.
Happy to have gotten a pre-order in for the Necron one - interestingly, when I looked on Element it didn't look like there was any discount on the box. Has anyone seen them up at a discounted price anywhere?
Dysartes wrote: Happy to have gotten a pre-order in for the Necron one - interestingly, when I looked on Element it didn't look like there was any discount on the box. Has anyone seen them up at a discounted price anywhere?
Firestorm and Wayland have their standard discounts on them
Necron set should tempt me but I've not been building my necrons for ages so I might pass unless any survive after christmas (Dragon being in the set might just luck me out that it doesn't sell out super-fast compared to some others).
SoB one would be interesting but I don't want to start a fresh army right now.
Maybe it's just me but it's mostly just very uninspiring sets... and 20-25 minis for £150 is not an impulse buy. Alas leviathan was that price a couple years ago and had 70+minis and book. I know it's not a starter and would not expect no price increase but I would accept something like 50 minis for that price not 25.
GW prices never been good but the pace they are going is just not worth it at all.
I feel like the AoS sets look more exciting than the 40K ones. I do agree the 40K feel like there's 1 box of troops missing in them compared to their price; but then again that. "This is just a bit too expensive for what it is" feeling is honestly creeping in over a LOT of life and purchases these days.
It's that post-pandemic "everything just got more expensive ahead of inflation so it all feels uncomfortably expensive" feeling.
Dysartes wrote: Happy to have gotten a pre-order in for the Necron one - interestingly, when I looked on Element it didn't look like there was any discount on the box. Has anyone seen them up at a discounted price anywhere?
Element have been gradually phasing out discounts for GW FOMO boxes. Sometimes they still have one, but often they don't if it's a hot commodity, so if you're F5'ing on a Saturday it's usually better to look elsewhere now.
Krieg are getting an army set (no surprise here) It will be Deathrider themed, 10 riders with weapon options (grenade spears, sword&pistols, lasguns?), Deathrider HQ that is likely a captain Also a new artillery piece and a 5-men special weapon team that has a mini tank drone? in the box (The mini tank drone might be a Cyclops?) I would expect the army set very soon since they normally arrive about a month earlier than the main release and the main release is rumored to be end of January/start of February
Emperors children are also getting an army set with a multipart EC chaos lord, 20 Marines (sounds like these are the EC Legionaries from the previous rumour) and 2 squads of Noise Marines so likely 12 if they turn out to be squads of 6.
Of course both also come with their limited edition Codex
Eldar new Combat Patrol will have a Spiritseer, Warpspiders, Guardians and Wraithblades
This would be a 25% discount if each of them is only included once which is on par with the CSM and Mechanicum as worst discounts They might also double up on one of the units which would make it about a 42% discount which, while unlikely, is still possible as the Blood Angels has a 45% discount while also having new units inside So both are equally likely and I guess it depends on how GW feels that day
* 1 x Death Rider HQ (he's not sure if this is a commissar, a captain or a dual build)
* 2 x 5 Death Riders
* New artillery piece
* Special weapons squad including some kind of weapon drone.
* Limited ed Codex
Limited launch box for Emperor's Children, consisting of
* 1 x EC Chaos Lord
* 2 x 10 Emperor's Children Legionnaires (lots of plumes etc, apparently cool).
* 2 x 6 Noise Marines
* Limited ed Codex
Would not surprise me at all if the Noise Marines are actually a 3-6 unit coming in sets of three instead of being two sets of six, since GW seems to be rather fond of a three models per box format for "elite" type units these days. That's if they go the route of making the old Noise Marine more a standard EC legionnaire option along with introducing a new more elite version to be the actual Noise Marine.
ikeulhu wrote: Would not surprise me at all if the Noise Marines are actually a 3-6 unit coming in sets of three instead of being two sets of six, since GW seems to be rather fond of a three models per box format for "elite" type units these days. That's if they go the route of making the old Noise Marine more a standard EC legionnaire option along with introducing a new more elite version to be the actual Noise Marine.
Thats true if Noise Marines are the Elite unit. But according to rumours EC also get a 3-men elite swordsmen unit so it would make sense if Noise Marines are instead the 6-men Veteran unit and the EC Legionaries are the 10-men basic squad.
Would be pretty much in line with the other legions if you make the point that EC being about perfection also means all their units are one slot above their normal position
So where the other legions have chaff units in the form of Poxwalkers/Tzaangors/Jakhals the EC instead already have Marines in the form of the EC Legionaries
And where the other legions specific Marines in the form of Plague/Rubric/Berzerker Marines are normally the basic troops, for EC the Noise Marines are already Veterans
Valrak is more right than wrong, but the Eldar box sounds too good to be true. It would be ideal though, as I've been fancying an Iyanden force since 3rd edition.
* 1 x Death Rider HQ (he's not sure if this is a commissar, a captain or a dual build)
* 2 x 5 Death Riders
* New artillery piece
* Special weapons squad including some kind of weapon drone.
* Limited ed Codex
Limited launch box for Emperor's Children, consisting of
* 1 x EC Chaos Lord
* 2 x 10 Emperor's Children Legionnaires (lots of plumes etc, apparently cool).
* 2 x 6 Noise Marines
* Limited ed Codex
Would these be the first launch boxes with more than one copy of the same new kit ?
* 1 x Death Rider HQ (he's not sure if this is a commissar, a captain or a dual build)
* 2 x 5 Death Riders
* New artillery piece
* Special weapons squad including some kind of weapon drone.
* Limited ed Codex
Limited launch box for Emperor's Children, consisting of
* 1 x EC Chaos Lord
* 2 x 10 Emperor's Children Legionnaires (lots of plumes etc, apparently cool).
* 2 x 6 Noise Marines
* Limited ed Codex
Would these be the first launch boxes with more than one copy of the same new kit ?
No. The 2022 "Cadia Stands" launch box had two squads of Cadian Infantry. The Leagues of Votann army set had two sets of Hearthkyn Warriors. The Beast Snagga Orks Army Set had two sets of Beast Snagga Boyz.
Two copies of the basic infantry unit seems to be included as often as not.
While I’ll pass on the EC stuff, the Eldar CP and the Launch box for DKoK may require multiple boxes each. ESPECIALLY if the warp spiders turn out to be real and not one man’s fever dream!
godswildcard wrote: While I’ll pass on the EC stuff, the Eldar CP and the Launch box for DKoK may require multiple boxes each. ESPECIALLY if the warp spiders turn out to be real and not one man’s fever dream!
I'm hoping the warp spiders are real because I need 1 for a crazy mechanicus imperial knight conversion.
So, tin foil hat moment. The soul grinder is being squatted in sigmar land. Why is this relevant you might ask? Because it's an unbound defiler. If you're going to smush daemons into the legion books, it makes sense not to have conflicting/overlapping units.
If it's being put out to pasture overall, I wonder if it'll force a statement about daemons sooner rather than later
Warpsiders sounds nice, its the only aspect warriors I never got around to owning.
To lock them up in a box with models I dont need is not nice, but I can wait.
From what i heard of Valraks non-marine know-wots I cant help thinking it might actually be fire dragons in the box because we know Fuegan is just around the corner.
Hold on, why is it listed as wraith blades/guard. Is it one box of each guard and blade?
Fayric wrote: Warpsiders sounds nice, its the only aspect warriors I never got around to owning.
To lock them up in a box with models I dont need is not nice, but I can wait.
From what i heard of Valraks non-marine know-wots I cant help thinking it might actually be fire dragons in the box because we know Fuegan is just around the corner.
Hold on, why is it listed as wraith blades/guard. Is it one box of each guard and blade?
wraithblades/guard are the same box, so it's likely to just cover that.
Fayric wrote: Warpsiders sounds nice, its the only aspect warriors I never got around to owning.
To lock them up in a box with models I dont need is not nice, but I can wait.
From what i heard of Valraks non-marine know-wots I cant help thinking it might actually be fire dragons in the box because we know Fuegan is just around the corner.
Hold on, why is it listed as wraith blades/guard. Is it one box of each guard and blade?
wraithblades/guard are the same box, so it's likely to just cover that.
Thats crazy, I got at least 15 of them and was sure they came in either shooty or choppy
Dudeface wrote: So, tin foil hat moment. The soul grinder is being squatted in sigmar land. Why is this relevant you might ask? Because it's an unbound defiler. If you're going to smush daemons into the legion books, it makes sense not to have conflicting/overlapping units.
If it's being put out to pasture overall, I wonder if it'll force a statement about daemons sooner rather than later
The Soul Grinder never really fit into AoS or TOW. It's very high tech looking on the mechanical bits.
A very confident poster on a different forum keeps hinting that we'll know one way or another whats happening with the Daemon in next months balance update.
Tyel wrote: No real basis but... I'm not convinced they'd try to launch EC with... you can have 2 basic squads, and 2 more... kinda basic squads.
I mean GW makes mistakes etc. It might be fine in terms of models and money - but its not exactly screaming FOMO.
I'd have thought they'd want to push some other stuff just to splash it all over Warhammer Community etc.
This is the initial faction launch set with a codex, core infantry & generic HQ. Once buyers have had 4-8 weeks to paint those essentials, GW will follow up with the elite squad kit, Lucius, and Fulgrim. It's all intended to maximise how many people buy into the fresh new faction.
It really varies though - sometimes GW spreads them out sometimes they dump the whole lot in one big go. I get the feeling that there's simply completing aspects. One part "hey customers can only buy so much at once" and another "hey we need the next 10 release slots for other things so you either get it out hte door now or it will be months before there's another slot and that will kill it faster than smothering the market for it for a little while"
There's also the fact that a good many people will "sit" on a new army until they can see more of it. Tease too little and the army can go nowhere because everyone is waiting to just see a few more models before committing to a whole army.
Overread wrote: It really varies though - sometimes GW spreads them out sometimes they dump the whole lot in one big go. I get the feeling that there's simply completing aspects. One part "hey customers can only buy so much at once" and another "hey we need the next 10 release slots for other things so you either get it out hte door now or it will be months before there's another slot and that will kill it faster than smothering the market for it for a little while"
There's also the fact that a good many people will "sit" on a new army until they can see more of it. Tease too little and the army can go nowhere because everyone is waiting to just see a few more models before committing to a whole army.
Not sure if you mean revealing everything at once/spread the reveals out or if you mean releasing them.
If its about release date not really. Army sets normally get released about a month early and include the codex as a early access with the rest of the kits and the actual codex release coming later.
Battleforces are used when they release everything together, they don't include the codex (As it is available at the same time) and also normally don't include many new kits, most of the time just a single hero.
Also to clarify I'm not talking about the ones, they also used the Battleforce name for the sets released for CSM, Orks, Custodes, Sisters and GSC
I'm not doubting there will be another wave of stuff.
I just mean the box itself is going to be kind of... bare.
Consider say the Sisters Box all the way back in... 2018 I think. Good variety of stuff.
People have compared Votann - yes you had 2 basic squads, but you got 2 characters and the bikers. Kroot got 2 basic squads but also 2 characters, the rampagers and Krootox. Snagga Boyz not great - but arguably that's a bolt on to Orks rather than a thing in itself.
This is theorized to be a 33 strong brick of infantry. Doing infantry things. To my mind that's not exactly firing people's imaginations. Basically I'd expect there to be a unit of bikers, or a light monster/vehicle etc, at least 2 characters, to break it up.
Tyel wrote: I'm not doubting there will be another wave of stuff.
I just mean the box itself is going to be kind of... bare.
Consider say the Sisters Box all the way back in... 2018 I think. Good variety of stuff.
People have compared Votann - yes you had 2 basic squads, but you got 2 characters and the bikers. Kroot got 2 basic squads but also 2 characters, the rampagers and Krootox. Snagga Boyz not great - but arguably that's a bolt on to Orks rather than a thing in itself.
This is theorized to be a 33 strong brick of infantry. Doing infantry things. To my mind that's not exactly firing people's imaginations. Basically I'd expect there to be a unit of bikers, or a light monster/vehicle etc, at least 2 characters, to break it up.
That would require Emperor's Children bikers to exist in the first place. Or a second, non-named HQ. If the model selection at launch is as paltry as what World Eaters got, an Emperor's Children launch box or combat patrol simply won't have a lot of kits to pick from.
Black Templars got a Dreadnought in their launch box to "bulk" it out (it was still a laughably small selection of models for the price). As I recall the reactions to having a generic vehicle included were mostly negative. I assume Emperor's Children will have partial overlap with Chaos Marines in the vehicle, and nothing more at launch. It doesn't seem like something GW would favor.
Also I don't know if this is always the case now, but Imperial Guard straight up got the future contents of their combat patrol in the launch box. And combat patrols have gotten lighter on vehicles since it's an actual game mode in 10th ed.
Now I'm not saying it's not boring or underwhelming. It may well end up feeling like that. But to me at least the rumored contents of the box seem plausible and in line with how GW handles things at the moment.
The models in the Emperor's Children box might well be the bulk of the faction's unique kits.
Add Fulgrim and another character or two, pad out with an arbitrary selection of generic Chaos units, and you've got yourself the same sort of anemic faction as World Eaters.
If you're expecting more, then you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
The trouble there is that (assuming the rumours are true) EC aren't getting any bespoke bikers or light monsters/vehicles in this release wave. The options are just infantry squads, characters, and Fulgrim. GW won't put a £100 model into an army box for obvious reasons. The only alternative is older CSM kits like Helbrutes, which many people will already own and are less exciting than brand new models.
For an 'exciting' box we just need to wait and see if Fulgrim ends up in an xmas battleforce set like the other primarchs.
Lord Damocles wrote: The models in the Emperor's Children box might well be the bulk of the faction's unique kits.
Add Fulgrim and another character or two, pad out with an arbitrary selection of generic Chaos units, and you've got yourself the same sort of anemic faction as World Eaters.
If you're expecting more, then you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
One thing Emprah's Kiddies will have over 9th ed World Eaters is that Slaaneshi daemon units are folded into the codex, if that rumor proves true. The book will feel more substantial and complete, even with a comparatively small Marine selection and only few new kits.
What do they do with the other three god-legions if Daemons are getting folded in? Will there be Index 2.0 lists for all of them? It's notable none have got a Codex in 10th, and it's a bit also hard to come up with many thematically distinct detachments for them.
twoseventwo wrote: What do they do with the other three god-legions if Daemons are getting folded in? Will there be Index 2.0 lists for all of them? It's notable none have got a Codex in 10th, and it's a bit also hard to come up with many thematically distinct detachments for them.
The popular theory is that the four god-specific legion codices are released close to each other next year due to the change to how daemons are handled.
It's impossible to say if there is a temporary solution or if the Chaos Daemons index sticks around to provide any army without a 10th ed codex the means to include daemons. Or if GW shrugs and just expects people to wait for their codex.
Chances are there won't be a long wait between codices, though, so it won't be much of an issue for long.
twoseventwo wrote: What do they do with the other three god-legions if Daemons are getting folded in? Will there be Index 2.0 lists for all of them? It's notable none have got a Codex in 10th, and it's a bit also hard to come up with many thematically distinct detachments for them.
Daemons folded into those codexes would be an easy gimmick to pad out how many distinct detachments each codex gets:
1) Pure legion, focused mainly on iconic core troops like plague marines or berzerkers
2) Pure daemons
3) Mixed legion/daemon incursion, likely focused on deep strike like the WE Red Angel detachment from 9E.
Then they just need one or two more specific variants. Perhaps tsons get a Tzaangor detachment while DG/WE get armoured assault.
I assume if this happens then there would be a PDF download with rules for Belakor and a combined daemon detachment, so old style daemons can still be used.
Honestly whilst its a shame to lose demon only armies; its worked REALLY well in AoS. Each of the 4 demons have entirely distinct visual styles and themes so splitting them into their own armies means that you can then really focus on giving more models to fill roles that were, before, filled by another demon from another of the 4 gods.
Personally its one change I really welcome. I think its very different to when GW tried to do the same with Skaven because in the end Skaven have a much more uniform style of model across their different clans and they all make use of the same clan-rat underlings.
Plus some of the niche groups - like the assassins one- don't really work if you try to make them into a whole "army of assassins" as opposed to units of assassins that aid others.
So yeah I can well see GW following AoS in 40K and having 4 Demon specific books, one for each God. Heck in the fullness of time I could see them adding a 5th for the Warpsmith who they've basically made another Chaos God; letting them mess with the whole "Dark Mechanicum" angle too
Daemons don't work in their current form because GW has persistently taken the lowest possible effort approach to them (ie. just use Fantasy models and pack the book with redundant non-choices).
If they were to actually make Daemons a proper 40K faction instead of an awkward Fantasy faction which happens to be in 40K then they could work just fine.
I've long said that one of the shocking things with Demons in both AoS and 40K is actually how few demons there are. Whilst the lore is insanely chock full of choices the actual models are really limited. We are running around with almost the same demonic models that demons had when they got started; almost very few actual additions of new types.
And yes more 40K specific ones would be nice; ranged options should be a thing beyond just tzeentch throwing spells and a skull cannon.
Overread wrote: Honestly whilst its a shame to lose demon only armies; its worked REALLY well in AoS. Each of the 4 demons have entirely distinct visual styles and themes so splitting them into their own armies means that you can then really focus on giving more models to fill roles that were, before, filled by another demon from another of the 4 gods.
Ok, and what then you do with Belakor/Archaon/Failbaddon? Their whole gimmick is combining all four into one force. Fifth undivided book that copies the four god ones?
Overread wrote: And yes more 40K specific ones would be nice; ranged options should be a thing beyond just tzeentch throwing spells and a skull cannon.
GW kinda tried to do that with Tzaangors and you still have people whining that race present in 40K fluff for like 30 years, with minis armed with pistols and chainswords is somehow 'too fantasy'. Go figure.
Then there is the problem that in AoS the ranged side of each god army is covered by mortal archers, so that ranged demon unit would be stepping on these toes now. Ditto in 40K. Do we even have any prominent demon types doing ranged warfare in fluff? If not, maybe just leave it to mortals and let demons keep their own theme instead of diluting it...
Overread wrote: Honestly whilst its a shame to lose demon only armies; its worked REALLY well in AoS. Each of the 4 demons have entirely distinct visual styles and themes so splitting them into their own armies means that you can then really focus on giving more models to fill roles that were, before, filled by another demon from another of the 4 gods.
Ok, and what then you do with Belakor/Archaon/Failbaddon? Their whole gimmick is combining all four into one force. Fifth undivided book that copies the four god ones?
Perhaps or put them in Slaves to Darkness/Chaos and then simply have an option within there to take demons with a limit on the roster options. Alternate statlines can also be done that way too. Much in the same way that genestealer cults can take stealers and broodlords.
As for ranged units, there's still scope and room for demonic ranged options like artillery or a huge beast.
Irbis wrote: Then there is the problem that in AoS the ranged side of each god army is covered by mortal archers, so that ranged demon unit would be stepping on these toes now. Ditto in 40K. Do we even have any prominent demon types doing ranged warfare in fluff? If not, maybe just leave it to mortals and let demons keep their own theme instead of diluting it...
Pretty much all Tzeentch daemons but Screamers are ranged rather than melee (or both), with the mortal side mostly being melee units. Skyfires are the only exception in Disciples, I think.
Let all the Hounds of Khorne breathe fire. Give the Beasts of Nurgle some sort of vomit ranged attack. Fiends of Slaanesh should be able to lash out quite far with their tongues.
Shakalooloo wrote: Let all the Hounds of Khorne breathe fire. Give the Beasts of Nurgle some sort of vomit ranged attack. Fiends of Slaanesh should be able to lash out quite far with their tongues.
But then you don't get more demons
You want a Slaanesh creature that flies on wings and fires bone barbs; or a nurgle vomitter that's just one huge torn open belly that nurglings fill with stuff and then fires vomit out of its mouth as huge gobs of artillery shot
Shakalooloo wrote: Let all the Hounds of Khorne breathe fire. Give the Beasts of Nurgle some sort of vomit ranged attack. Fiends of Slaanesh should be able to lash out quite far with their tongues.
But then you don't get more demons
You want a Slaanesh creature that flies on wings and fires bone barbs; or a nurgle vomitter that's just one huge torn open belly that nurglings fill with stuff and then fires vomit out of its mouth as huge gobs of artillery shot
Condense each of those into a single character release to accompany a codex release and MAYBE they'll happen.
And yes more 40K specific ones would be nice; ranged options should be a thing beyond just tzeentch throwing spells and a skull cannon.
Those are possessed, daemon engines and 40k daemon princes.
I never liked the idea of pure daemon armies in 40k at all. They were a medley of simple warp-born entities that hate each other more than the enemy. And while there're daemon worlds and warp rifts they're usually summoned by mortals - either used as weapons by them or possessing the naive fools.
Overread wrote: Honestly whilst its a shame to lose demon only armies; its worked REALLY well in AoS. Each of the 4 demons have entirely distinct visual styles and themes so splitting them into their own armies means that you can then really focus on giving more models to fill roles that were, before, filled by another demon from another of the 4 gods.
Ok, and what then you do with Belakor/Archaon/Failbaddon? Their whole gimmick is combining all four into one force. Fifth undivided book that copies the four god ones?
"If belakor is leading this detachment, he must be the warlord. Use this detachment, these Enhancements and stratagems. You may include any units with the "daemon of X" keywords from the following books".
Shakalooloo wrote: Let all the Hounds of Khorne breathe fire. Give the Beasts of Nurgle some sort of vomit ranged attack. Fiends of Slaanesh should be able to lash out quite far with their tongues.
But then you don't get more demons
You want a Slaanesh creature that flies on wings and fires bone barbs; or a nurgle vomitter that's just one huge torn open belly that nurglings fill with stuff and then fires vomit out of its mouth as huge gobs of artillery shot
The second one might overlap a bit with the Plagueburst Crawler - being that both would be Daemonic artillery shooting gobs of plague with indirect fire.
(The advantage of combining Nurgle Daemons with Death Guard would be that it wouldn't be in a separate book.)
I feel if you want demons to be their own book, they needed to lean into undivided demons which aside for the odd attempt here and there they never did.
Irbis wrote: Then there is the problem that in AoS the ranged side of each god army is covered by mortal archers, so that ranged demon unit would be stepping on these toes now. Ditto in 40K. Do we even have any prominent demon types doing ranged warfare in fluff? If not, maybe just leave it to mortals and let demons keep their own theme instead of diluting it...
Pretty much all Tzeentch daemons but Screamers are ranged rather than melee (or both), with the mortal side mostly being melee units. Skyfires are the only exception in Disciples, I think.
But that's the same problem, just reversed. Imagine doing melee Tzeentch daemons, they would be competing for role (and OoU, sales) with mortals. Yes, I suppose daemon artillery and big beasts are still a niche that can be plugged, but overall, while I kind of like each god force being its own thing currently it's model range that was made for completely different army design so if GW wants to split it up they really should have models/units fixing the issues coming from transition available immediately upon the switch, not years later, IMO (and while they are doing these they should take both AoS and 40K chaos ranges they will be merging into account, because again, a lot of issues the army currently has are grandfathered in from the time it was WFB army, a completely different animal in every possible way that is just bad fit to both AoSand 40K)...
Overread wrote: Honestly whilst its a shame to lose demon only armies; its worked REALLY well in AoS. Each of the 4 demons have entirely distinct visual styles and themes so splitting them into their own armies means that you can then really focus on giving more models to fill roles that were, before, filled by another demon from another of the 4 gods.
Ok, and what then you do with Belakor/Archaon/Failbaddon? Their whole gimmick is combining all four into one force. Fifth undivided book that copies the four god ones?
Perhaps or put them in Slaves to Darkness/Chaos and then simply have an option within there to take demons with a limit on the roster options. Alternate statlines can also be done that way too. Much in the same way that genestealer cults can take stealers and broodlords.
This is literally what they're doing with Age of Sigmar: Be'lakor is in the Slaves to Darkness book, and has an Army of Renown that allows him to take certain Daemon units.
Of course, if that was the plan, why wasn't he in the CSM codex to begin with?
Overread wrote: Honestly whilst its a shame to lose demon only armies; its worked REALLY well in AoS. Each of the 4 demons have entirely distinct visual styles and themes so splitting them into their own armies means that you can then really focus on giving more models to fill roles that were, before, filled by another demon from another of the 4 gods.
Ok, and what then you do with Belakor/Archaon/Failbaddon? Their whole gimmick is combining all four into one force. Fifth undivided book that copies the four god ones?
Perhaps or put them in Slaves to Darkness/Chaos and then simply have an option within there to take demons with a limit on the roster options. Alternate statlines can also be done that way too. Much in the same way that genestealer cults can take stealers and broodlords.
This is literally what they're doing with Age of Sigmar: Be'lakor is in the Slaves to Darkness book, and has an Army of Renown that allows him to take certain Daemon units.
Of course, if that was the plan, why wasn't he in the CSM codex to begin with?
because that would have been a dead giveaway that they were going to remove the daemons codex like a year before it happened. and they wouldnt sell as many daemon models then, probably.
between none of the god aligned legions not having a codex + no daemons codex yet, i think the writing is on the wall.
What are the odds of a codex supplement to Codex Chaos Space Marines for Belakor, Daemon Forge Dude and possibly Dark Mechanicus to gather odds and ends like Imperial Agents does at the end of the Chaos release cycle? That could be a way to retain full daemon armies, solve the undivided daemons problem and give GW another book to sell.
Cant decide if Grey knights would be in an even tighter niche with daemons split into differnt codexes. You might have more opportunities to fight daemons, but your entire army would be specialised in a limited number of the opponents units (and probably effective against the least intimidating part of the enemies force).
Fayric wrote: Cant decide if Grey knights would be in an even tighter niche with daemons split into differnt codexes. You might have more opportunities to fight daemons, but your entire army would be specialised in a limited number of the opponents units (and probably effective against the least intimidating part of the enemies force).
It depends how well thought out the codex is. For example instead of having rules that specifically counter DAEMON models*, GK could have rules to counter traits most typically used by daemons that are still useful into other opponents:
Dev wounds to bypass invulns
Anti-psyker / anti-monster
Deep strike prevention auras
etc
*the writers do seem to have considered this already for the GK index, as the DAEMON keyword is typically only used on named characters or enhancements that can't spammed multiple times
Geifer wrote: What are the odds of a codex supplement to Codex Chaos Space Marines for Belakor, Daemon Forge Dude and possibly Dark Mechanicus to gather odds and ends like Imperial Agents does at the end of the Chaos release cycle? That could be a way to retain full daemon armies, solve the undivided daemons problem and give GW another book to sell.
Given we got a new Night Lord's character this morning, I'd say its not out of the realm of possibility.
Geifer wrote: What are the odds of a codex supplement to Codex Chaos Space Marines for Belakor, Daemon Forge Dude and possibly Dark Mechanicus to gather odds and ends like Imperial Agents does at the end of the Chaos release cycle? That could be a way to retain full daemon armies, solve the undivided daemons problem and give GW another book to sell.
Given we got a new Night Lord's character this morning, I'd say its not out of the realm of possibility.
wait what? i'm not seeing a night lords character on warcom
Geifer wrote: What are the odds of a codex supplement to Codex Chaos Space Marines for Belakor, Daemon Forge Dude and possibly Dark Mechanicus to gather odds and ends like Imperial Agents does at the end of the Chaos release cycle? That could be a way to retain full daemon armies, solve the undivided daemons problem and give GW another book to sell.
Given we got a new Night Lord's character this morning, I'd say its not out of the realm of possibility.
wait what? i'm not seeing a night lords character on warcom
It's in the app update. I'm guessing they haven't updated warcom yet. His name is Nemesis Claw.
Geifer wrote: What are the odds of a codex supplement to Codex Chaos Space Marines for Belakor, Daemon Forge Dude and possibly Dark Mechanicus to gather odds and ends like Imperial Agents does at the end of the Chaos release cycle? That could be a way to retain full daemon armies, solve the undivided daemons problem and give GW another book to sell.
Given we got a new Night Lord's character this morning, I'd say its not out of the realm of possibility.
Geifer wrote: What are the odds of a codex supplement to Codex Chaos Space Marines for Belakor, Daemon Forge Dude and possibly Dark Mechanicus to gather odds and ends like Imperial Agents does at the end of the Chaos release cycle? That could be a way to retain full daemon armies, solve the undivided daemons problem and give GW another book to sell.
Given we got a new Night Lord's character this morning, I'd say its not out of the realm of possibility.
wait what? i'm not seeing a night lords character on warcom
It's in the app update. I'm guessing they haven't updated warcom yet. His name is Nemesis Claw.
that's the name of the kill team, right? are you sure it's a character, and not the kill team getting bespoke rules in 40k?
that's the name of the kill team, right? are you sure it's a character, and not the kill team getting bespoke rules in 40k?
It is the Kill Team getting bespoke rules.
The squad gets:
Stealth
+1 to hit against below starting strength / +1 to wound against below half strength
Shuts down stratagem use for non-monster / vehicle units in engagement range
to be fair, based on my cursory understanding of space marine lore, i think it's totally possible for Night Lords to have a character named Nemesis Claw
StudentOfEtherium wrote: to be fair, based on my cursory understanding of space marine lore, i think it's totally possible for Night Lords to have a character named Nemesis Claw
The new Nemesis claw rules actually look pretty good, especially for 10. Bring them decked out for CC and I think they are worth the 10 extra points over the normal legionaries as stealth can help get them across the board safer (so could forgo the Rhino) and I think their rule is better than the re-roll wounds on 1's, though probably not as good as re-roll wounds on objectives. I can see arguments both ways which is good as you don't want one to be vastly better than the other. I might try to pick up a unit of these guys.
I didn't want to start a new thread, and there are a lot of emperors children references in this thread...
I thought the EC had the sonic weapons and guitars before the heresy began... why no EC 30k musical awesomeness? (Feel free to point me in the right direction.... again, if I've missed the obviously large signposts).
They developed sonic weapons in the heresy leading the kakaphoni linked above. They were only ever guitars in the 80's/early 90's goofy cheesy era of 40k
They developed sonic weapons in the heresy leading the kakaphoni linked above. They were only ever guitars in the 80's/early 90's goofy cheesy era of 40k
And in one nostalgia-hit limited model a few years back.
40k have zero comic relief these days (well, intended comic relief anyway), so I would say there is very little chance of noice marines with guitars.
(and thats a good thing in my opinion)
They developed sonic weapons in the heresy leading the kakaphoni linked above. They were only ever guitars in the 80's/early 90's goofy cheesy era of 40k
And in one nostalgia-hit limited model a few years back.
Small correction, though released as a Christmas model the Noise Marine isn't limited. It's currently online only on GW's store, but it's still available. I bought one last week. The difference to the original release is that it comes in a clampack instead of the original box in the vain of current commemorative series models. And the price...
This message was brought to you by the president of the People With Taste Prefer Noise Marines With Guitars Society.
Is this Nemesis Claw something that a person can purchase or is this something that you had to have purchased during the 3 hours it was available before it sold out forever? And if the latter, why are they releasing rules now if not to drive sales?
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: Is this Nemesis Claw something that a person can purchase or is this something that you had to have purchased during the 3 hours it was available before it sold out forever? And if the latter, why are they releasing rules now if not to drive sales?
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: Is this Nemesis Claw something that a person can purchase or is this something that you had to have purchased during the 3 hours it was available before it sold out forever? And if the latter, why are they releasing rules now if not to drive sales?
There are ton of them on ebay as well if you really want it
40k has crawled up its ass and sniffed its colon too much if we can't have death guitar armed units, but church organ missile launchers and maugan ra grim reaper edgelords are fine.
Hellebore wrote: 40k has crawled up its ass and sniffed its colon too much if we can't have death guitar armed units, but church organ missile launchers and maugan ra grim reaper edgelords are fine.
Overread wrote: Anyone who doesn't want a guitar army of slaanesh noise marines has clearly managed to miss both Brutal Legend the game and Mad Max 4.
I've missed brutal legend, I've seen mad max however. But I also know that a guitar is not the only noise making instrument, doesn't look very weapon like anyway and would be boring AF having a dozen guitar guys all riffing the same gak as you march on. I've seen some people say they want a "band". No. The same guitarist, bassist and drummer models over and over in a unit would look pants.
They need to go nuts, make up some weird ass looking devices and have them look innately disturbing to comprened. More flesh harps etc.
Lord Marshall: looks wonderful, but his weapon option seem to be limited to either Sword and Las Pistol, or Las Pistol and Sword. That's just..... disappointing.
Death riders: totally cool, but I feel this should have been a combo kit with Attilan Rough Riders. Plus side, instead of Spears it looks like the can swap out to Swords. That's neat
Artillery and heavy weapons squads look dope as gak. Love them, will be picking up/converting an artillery piece.
Eldar: good all across the board, and I REALLY like the Warp Spider PL, he's sweet. That knocks a lot of the metal/resin remnants of the 1990's off the wishlist.
Eldar: good all across the board, and I REALLY like the Warp Spider PL, he's sweet.
Wasn't a she or I misremember?
Yes the Warp Spider Phoenix Lord is a female.
Also as I have no idea how to pronounce her name and will have trouble spelling it too, I shall call her Spider-Woman for the time being.
Possibly Gwen Stacy or Jessica Drew.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Awesome figure btw!
Those new Death Korps models are really nice. There are a lot of the characterful details, like the broom-handled laspistol on the Engineer sergeant (looks as though the Engineers are just an upgrade sprue, however). The command squad looks especially good, and suitably sinister.
cuda1179 wrote: Lord Marshall: looks wonderful, but his weapon option seem to be limited to either Sword and Las Pistol, or Las Pistol and Sword. That's just..... disappointing.
No options because the model is Lord Marshal Varnan Dreir and Named Characters don't have weapon options. Just build options so every single one doesn't have to look the same.
Might be the paintjob bit I find the not-hooves of the horses really nasty. Might get used to them when they're not as pronounced. I understand they didn't want to take boring horses and bionics would have put them even closer to Squighogs, but I'm not sure yet if I like that look.
Other than that good looking stuff all around. Makes me wonder how good they mix with the upcoming WGA Damned stuff. Scratch off some eagles and they're nice looking renegades.
Snord wrote: Those new Death Korps models are really nice. There are a lot of the characterful details, like the broom-handled laspistol on the Engineer sergeant (looks as though the Engineers are just an upgrade sprue, however). The command squad looks especially good, and suitably sinister.
There's only five guys in the engineer squad (yikes at whatever that box price point ends up being...) so it can't be an upgrade to the ten-man sprues of the Kill Team squad.
Sgt. Cortez wrote: Might be the paintjob bit I find the not-hooves of the horses really nasty. Might get used to them when they're not as pronounced. I understand they didn't want to take boring horses and bionics would have put them even closer to Squighogs, but I'm not sure yet if I like that look.
Other than that good looking stuff all around. Makes me wonder how good they mix with the upcoming WGA Damned stuff. Scratch off some eagles and they're nice looking renegades.
The forgeworld deathkorps horses have the same feet. They aren’t “horses” really but genetically altered beasts of burden I think.
They used to be horses. Then Krieg nuked itself into mud, rubble, and radioactive dust. Between the radiation and the exceptionally rough terrain on the surface, the horses re-evolving the missing bits of their feet was semi-inevitable.
Andykp wrote: The forgeworld deathkorps horses have the same feet. They aren’t “horses” really but genetically altered beasts of burden I think.
not the same
Krieg never had regular horse models, but the feet weren't like that either
think the main problem is that they look more like some of the chaos feet we have seen (given that GW uses a digital database and the old FW models aren't digital) and have a paint job that makes the fet standing out to make sure everyone notice them not being actual horses
give it a regular paint job and it will look better
Andykp wrote: The forgeworld deathkorps horses have the same feet. They aren’t “horses” really but genetically altered beasts of burden I think.
not the same
Krieg never had regular horse models, but the feet weren't like that either
think the main problem is that they look more like some of the chaos feet we have seen (given that GW uses a digital database and the old FW models aren't digital) and have a paint job that makes the fet standing out to make sure everyone notice them not being actual horses
give it a regular paint job and it will look better
All they've done is add an extra toe. The old riders had two large claws and two smaller ones in either side. These guys have 3 toes in the middle.
Hot damn. If I wasn't firmly committed to Heresy and MESBG, I'd be sorely tempted by the Eldar. Warp Spiders have always been a favourite and what with a gorgeous kit and a fantastic looking Pheonix Lord (Artel W did the re-materialising first though!), I'd be hard pressed not to start an army centred around them.
lost_lilliputian wrote: Also as I have no idea how to pronounce her name and will have trouble spelling it too, I shall call her Spider-Woman for the time being.
Brilliant 40K announcements all round. The new aspects look dope, Krieg riders awesome, Krieg command squad look way better than I dared to even hope. Seriously tempted to start an Eldari army now, these models look very faithful to the originals and wouldn't look at all out of place in 2nd ed 40K.
As a cherry on top, the Arvus getting a plastic release will finally allow me to add a "HQ" to my RT Corsairs Kill Team. I was already considering adding it when the kit was resin, and now with the plastic release it just became a no-brainer. I mean, what better way for a bunch of Corsairs to roam the void than in an unmarked Imperial shuttle..
Hellebore wrote: All they've done is add an extra toe. The old riders had two large claws and two smaller ones in either side. These guys have 3 toes in the middle.
as I wrote it is more about the paintjob making it extra visible (and pink claws usually associated with Slaanesh in the 40k colour coding) than the sculpting
but that someone found it necessary to paint those pink so everyone will notice it as something special, is the problem here
paint the full horse black and no one would have cared
The feet are only slightly different. They were always "weird" but I guess the old FW versions looked closer to goat hooves with dew claws, as opposed to the more bear feet of the new ones.
Its kinda funny how many people missed out on the feet of the Deathriders (both old and new) before someone else pointed them out.
There's only five guys in the engineer squad (yikes at whatever that box price point ends up being...) so it can't be an upgrade to the ten-man sprues of the Kill Team squad.
There are 2 different sprues with components for 5 models on each. It looks as though these are the bodies from one of those sprues.
Yea I never noticed before because the foot still looked functionally unguligrade, the new ones have claws spread out too much, at least on most front legs.
CMLR wrote: Horses with claws. Evolutive eeck. If they were not labeled Empire I'd say they are cool traitor guardsmen.
Krieg artillery looking damn fine, but wake me up when they give Catachan the spotlight.
Loved everything about Eldar except no new Dire Avengers. That's sorely missing.
The DAs still using the old guardian bodies makes it kind of hilarious to me xD
Not for a while they’ve not. Long since become their own, self contained plastic kit.
But those ball and socket hip joints are awful.
I just checked the GW store. Those bodies are still the same as the old guardians but with the DA stuff integrated, isn't that right? I mean, proportions and all they are the old guardians, right?
I have no idea if it is true or not, but I do like the story that the person who sculpted the Scorpions was meant to sculpt him, then left (or was let go) without doing him, and no project manager in the Studio noticed...
Arbitrator wrote: Karandras seems prime "one new character model for a new codex" material in the future (11th?), since we already have the Scorpions via Kill Team.
Honestly that was my expectation for this edition after the huge dump we got in 9th. But it seems GW wants to purge the old Finecast out of the line. No complaints from me about that. My wallet is weeping quietly, but it does that...
Probably worth posting the Eldar codex cover for the funny, purple Marine taking a nap in the bottom right corner.
Makes you wonder if the next iteration of Emprah's Kiddies is going to look closer to their pre-Heresy color scheme, maybe with only the actual Noise Marines standing out. If that.
Also, funny bumps on breastplates incoming. Brace yourselves for renewed shouting matches about boob plate!
There's only five guys in the engineer squad (yikes at whatever that box price point ends up being...) so it can't be an upgrade to the ten-man sprues of the Kill Team squad.
There are 2 different sprues with components for 5 models on each. It looks as though these are the bodies from one of those sprues.
I don’t think they’ve ever done that before, taken half a kit (that isn’t just repeated sprues) and done an upgrade sprue for it. These will be new models/sprues. The poses don’t match and they have the metal leg things that aren’t on the kill team ones. Plus I think each half of the Krieg one has a kneeling pose - none of these are kneeling.
There's only five guys in the engineer squad (yikes at whatever that box price point ends up being...) so it can't be an upgrade to the ten-man sprues of the Kill Team squad.
There are 2 different sprues with components for 5 models on each. It looks as though these are the bodies from one of those sprues.
I don’t think they’ve ever done that before, taken half a kit (that isn’t just repeated sprues) and done an upgrade sprue for it. These will be new models/sprues. The poses don’t match and they have the metal leg things that aren’t on the kill team ones. Plus I think each half of the Krieg one has a kneeling pose - none of these are kneeling.
Yeah, the Kill Team kit is not two separate sprues; it's one medium sprue folded in half and snapped along the cast-in weak points to fit in the box. Plus the smaller accessory sprue that has no bodies on it at all.
I can sort of see the engineer kit reusing that extra sprue but it seems more likely to end up in the command squad set.
Makes you wonder if the next iteration of Emprah's Kiddies is going to look closer to their pre-Heresy color scheme, maybe with only the actual Noise Marines standing out. If that.
I approve of this retcon if so. The black/pink colour scheme has never really conveyed the menace of the faction, somehow.
(I sort of wish they'd done this with DG as well - the implication is that they did, in a rather out-of-character way, repaint their armour, and they look great in a corrupted version of the HH livery.)
Gotta agree with everyone who doesn't like the feet of the new Krieg ponies. They just look weird and awful and do not fit the rest of the model, which is a huge shame as rest of the model looks really cool. And they are not like feet of the Forgeworld ponies. Those obviously didn't look like feet of normal horses either, but they did look like ungulate feet so they made sense with the rest of the anatomy.
Other than that, great reveals, I'm particularly happy to see so many new Eldar kits. Well, Asurmen's face looks a tad silly. (Not that the old one looked great either.)
I think the way they are painted and photographed highlights the feet a LOT more than normal. I think more muted colour transition from body to leg to foot and with a different angle of view (lets face it most of the time you'll be looking down on them not up) and I think it won't be a huge issue
I know it all depends on how keywords interact, but is anyone else tempted to make an Imperial Guard cavalry list with both Horse characters, three units of Attilan Rough Riders, and three units of Krieg Death riders?
Thinking on the new Aspects and the Exarch options:
Would anyone really want to use these additional options from a rules perspective? The Exarch options seem to not mesh well with the rest of the squad.
For example, a Fire Dragon with an axe and fusion pistol is sort of similar to previous editions where the Exarch could get a CC Exarch power of Burning Fist. Problem is one CC oriented model in a squad of meltagun armed Fire Dragons is not really that useful. If they are being charged by enemy CC troops then they'll be in trouble regardless. If they are not, then the Exarch's abilities are effectively being wasted.
Similar reasoning goes for the Swooping Hawk Exarch with the sword and sun pistol option, or the Warp Spider with power blades.
Dire Avengers have had their own plastic kit not based on the guardian kit since 2006 (4th edition). It's from the same era before digital sculpting and had many of the same problems as the guardian kit with two-piece legs, ball and socket arm joints, and a poor fit of the torsos to the legs.
Plastic guardians came out in 1999. The dire avenger kit based on that kit came out in 2000. After DAs got their own kit in 2006 the only change was halving the number of models in the kit from 10 to 5 during late 5th or with the codex release in 6th.
Hold up, I'm liking this more and more. Assuming the new models are pointed close to what Lord Solar and the Attillan RR's are, in a 2000 point list you could have the aforementioned 62 horsemen, 9 Scout Sentinels, 6 heavy Sentinels, and 3 10-man infantry units holding backfield objectives. Not a superb list, but definitely interesting and fun. It might even take some people off-guard and win once in a while.
Iracundus wrote: Thinking on the new Aspects and the Exarch options:
Would anyone really want to use these additional options from a rules perspective? The Exarch options seem to not mesh well with the rest of the squad.
For example, a Fire Dragon with an axe and fusion pistol is sort of similar to previous editions where the Exarch could get a CC Exarch power of Burning Fist. Problem is one CC oriented model in a squad of meltagun armed Fire Dragons is not really that useful. If they are being charged by enemy CC troops then they'll be in trouble regardless. If they are not, then the Exarch's abilities are effectively being wasted.
Similar reasoning goes for the Swooping Hawk Exarch with the sword and sun pistol option, or the Warp Spider with power blades.
One thing to keep in mind is with characters attaching to squads, and the PLs being a little choppy, it might be nice to give them a little backup?
For FDs how many fusion guns do you need to get the job done? Its it worth it to diversify a little? Same question could be asked for most aspects.
It will be interesting to see the rules. I suspect you are right. 40k generally rewards specialization, and aspect warriors are nothing but. The go-to option probably will end up being the one that matches the squad’s gear.
I find all of this outrage really sad. Who wants literal ww1 in 40k? What's the point.
This is about the only thing that's clearly not historical and that's good.
A long time ago, I ran the pewter nightmare that was the Steel Legion, with its ridiculously expensive fraternis Militia... 3 guys to a blister, and you could have 40 maximum.
That army felt very real worldish, inspiration obviously taken from wars in the European Theater.
When the DKoK came out, GW/FW doubled down on the WW1 theme, with wheeled artillery pieces, gas marked horses, and a super trench warfare feel.
You could now relive the 40k version of the Battle of the Somme... if you had more money than any Steel Legion player ever spent on their Armies.
So, yes, I do remember when the DKoK came out. I also feel the sea change in their design, which I feel across a lot of the GW range.
Part of it comes from the advanced plastics that no one had access to back in the day, and now you have leaping and dancing models (ie. Harlequins and Assassins) that are amazing models. The new Warp Spiders are a visual treat.
But, it doesn't feel as GrimDark as it used to.
That's just my opinion. I mean no disrespect to anyone.
I think that a minor aesthetic change is a small price to pay for a now massive plastic range. Catachan who were the #2 plastic army have had 2 limited release character models in the past decades, while the other FW guard regiment, Elysian, never got the attention of Kreig and now have had their vehicle stolen for necromunda and the jump troops role taken by Tempestus Scions.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I think that a minor aesthetic change is a small price to pay for a now massive plastic range. Catching who were the #2 plastic army have had 2 limited release character models in the past decades, while the other FW guard regiment, Elysian, never got the attention of Kreig and now have had their vehicle stolen for necromunda and the jump troops role taken by Tempestus Scions.
I felt the same when the super cool Storm Trooper/ Kasrkin models were originally replaced by Tempestus Scions.
Maybe the Elysians will return. With 40k, you never know.
As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.
Darkial wrote: As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.
They are already filling up their bases pretty well. I think if you tried to make them too dynamic they might end up being too top heavy and tippy. Spiders are also one of the more solid heavy armored aspects, so I’m OK with more rooted poses on them.
Darkial wrote: As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.
Well, they're a little more dynamic than the 30 year old originals. I'm not a fan of molded energy swirly stuff so I'm glad only one regular trooper seems to have it. The PL looks like she will need some major surgery to remove it from her.
Darkial wrote: As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.
Well, they're a little more dynamic than the 30 year old originals. I'm not a fan of molded energy swirly stuff so I'm glad only one regular trooper seems to have it. The PL looks like she will need some major surgery to remove it from her.
Looks like 2 connection points to the guns and one on the feet. Should be a pretty simple set of cuts.
Darkial wrote: As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.
No? The less "dynamic" the sculpts are, the better things will look on the table if multiple units are fielded - and probably even within the same unit of 10 are fielded.
Spiders themselves wear relatively heavy armour and mostly move around by teleporting so it makes sense not to have them too dynamic and mostly look like they've just burst out of the warp with guns at the ready.
The convo about the Krieg not being grimdark enough is just the paintjob. The eavy metal style does not gel with the aesthetic of the faction. If they had done the old FW models in the same style you'd be saying the exact same thing.*
*Not that there aren't aesthetic changes between the actual models, but that's more to do with making the Kriegers way more bulky looking which I'll admit I'm not a fan of.
So, yes, I do remember when the DKoK came out. I also feel the sea change in their design, which I feel across a lot of the GW range.
I don't think there's been some drastic change in the designs themselves that make them feel less grimdark though.
It's just a combination of the way they've been painted, the more dynamic poses, and that forgeworld miniatures were just slightly more realistically proportioned/scaled.
Darkial wrote: As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.
No? The less "dynamic" the sculpts are, the better things will look on the table if multiple units are fielded - and probably even within the same unit of 10 are fielded.
I brought this up to a local player yesterday. What if we can no longer take units of 10? Maybe 5 will become the only option? I have no specific knowledge or preference but observed how GW has made those changes with other units.
I too have to second the "its just the paintjob bruh" argument. DKoK are totally fine as long as you weather them nice and proper, and shy away from bright saturated colours.
I must admit disliking the Eavy Metal paint style more and more as I get older.. it just looks derpy on anything other than LI scale models IMHO
Darkial wrote: As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.
No? The less "dynamic" the sculpts are, the better things will look on the table if multiple units are fielded - and probably even within the same unit of 10 are fielded.
I brought this up to a local player yesterday. What if we can no longer take units of 10? Maybe 5 will become the only option? I have no specific knowledge or preference but observed how GW has made those changes with other units.
no other unit of aspect warriors has been limited to five. they even are selling scorpions in boxes of ten at the moment
Automatically Appended Next Post: also my feeling on paint jobs is that, in general, people need to use more color, not less. tables look boring if everyone is painted in drab colors. 2nd edition got this right
Lathe Biosas wrote: The DKoK models feel like a dying Canary in the proverbial Coal Mine.
AoS has always leaned into the less gritty, more cartoony feel that regular Warhammer or 40k, now I feel that that esthetic is creeping into 40k.
The DKoK have a grim feeling, with a touch... or should I say toe hold... of the AoS cartoon feel.
The Eavy Metal paint job is probably doing a lot of that to be fair. Even the resin models looked a lot less gritty when they refreshed the photographs with a new, cleaner paint job. I think some of the cartooniness is just an inherent downside of swapping to plastic, since the proportions and detail have to be less refined and more chunky.
Cult Of Paint did a pretty gritty paint job when the Kill Team dropped and it went a long way to making them less cartoony.
I agree, it doesn't make sense gameplay wise to split them into smaller boxes.... financially, on the other hand, the new models may be pricey, and sold in smaller amounts.
But that's just a guess.
--‐---‐------------
On the DKoK, yeah.... it might just be the bulkier look to them and the paint job feels too much.
I understand how the Space Marine players felt about the Primaris.
It was kind of a shock, because it was different... I guess I'll put my "Kill the Mutants" sign away, and stop supporting Mr. Trask and his Sentinel Program.
Lathe Biosas wrote: The DKoK models feel like a dying Canary in the proverbial Coal Mine.
AoS has always leaned into the less gritty, more cartoony feel that regular Warhammer or 40k, now I feel that that esthetic is creeping into 40k.
The DKoK have a grim feeling, with a touch... or should I say toe hold... of the AoS cartoon feel.
You are aware that the DK (and their clawed horses) have been part of the game for 20-some years at this point, right?
Those horses just had pointy hooves by comparison, these guys are full on cat climbing up gak.
You've never actually seen the originals then.
I find all of this outrage really sad. Who wants literal ww1 in 40k? What's the point.
This is about the only thing that's clearly not historical and that's good.
I have seen them, the studio painted ones in WHW are lovely. That said, this is an original one, from the gw site, they have 2 short stubby claws that are basically a pointy hoof.
The new ones are like a cat trying to catch a toy on a string with articulated toes:
It only looks like a cat because of the position; the dewclaw is making the paw look bigger on the forelegs; whilst the claws are all moving with the foot to make it look more dynamic and aggressive.
Plus the bold painting colours really brings them out as does the angle. This is very much something I think will quickly become a non-issue for many once they get modles "in hand"
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I guess this means Catachans are forevermore consigned to the garbage can.
i suspect that they'll get the same release pattern that krieg did (kill team kit that is also their base infantry, and then the rest of the army several years later)
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I guess this means Catachans are forevermore consigned to the garbage can.
i suspect that they'll get the same release pattern that krieg did (kill team kit that is also their base infantry, and then the rest of the army several years later)
Indeed, the last guard codex kept a catachan unit entry around at a time when many other kits of a similar age were being dropped. If catachans are still in the 10e codex then it's a good sign.
Crimson wrote: They just look weird and awful and do not fit the rest of the model, which is a huge shame as rest of the model looks really cool. And they are not like feet of the Forgeworld ponies. Those obviously didn't look like feet of normal horses either, but they did look like ungulate feet so they made sense with the rest of the anatomy.
Eh, no, it made no sense at all. Cows, pigs, and the rest of even-toed ungulates are completely different biological order (one of the highest classification ranks just below a kingdom) than odd-toed ungulates like horses. In fact, said cow is more closely related to a whale than it is to a horse. That's why old ones looked so wrong (on top of a terrible anatomy), it was a mix of body parts of animal groups separated by 70+ million years of evolution put together in a haphazard way.
Fun fact, direct ancestor of a horse did in fact have three fingers ending with 'claws' (plus two small side ones like new Krieg 'horses'), and a regression to ancestral trait of one body part is much more believable and less complicated than trying to make a cow or goat into horse like thing. So, yeah:
Spoiler:
Mentlegen324 wrote: It's just a combination of the way they've been painted, the more dynamic poses, and that forgeworld miniatures were just slightly more realistically proportioned/scaled.
What?
Not only FW minis had proportions of 10 year old children (unless I missed some grimdumb memo about Krieg sending kids to war, but they are always described as adults in the fluff), but they had limbs so thin that if you tried to imagine how they looked under the armor/cloth, Barbie doll arms and legs would look downright obese in comparison. GW Krieg actually have proportions of adult human, and the thicker limbs while still kind of gaunt underneath the uniform aren't caricatually so.
The 'horses' were terrible too, not only the thing was so front heavy it would trip and faceplanted on the first obstacle breaking its neck, tiny rear legs would never work on a real animal (there is a reason why virtually all mammals have rear limbs much stronger than front ones despite front also bearing the weight of neck/head), not one that can be ridden or run at any real speed, at least. I suspect that's also why they were posed in so static, slow walking stance, because it would be impossible to make them look fast without being ridiculous.
Lathe Biosas wrote: AoS has always leaned into the less gritty, more cartoony feel that regular Warhammer or 40k, now I feel that that esthetic is creeping into 40k.
The DKoK have a grim feeling, with a touch... or should I say toe hold... of the AoS cartoon feel.
Ah, yes, the old, non cartoony, gritty 40K models:
Spoiler:
I dare you to say that modern replacement of this is in any way, shape, or form more 'cartoony'. With a straight face, that is
Red Bunnies at that... Hmmm... at least they didn't bring up the Night Lord's and their Bat Heads...then I'd really be in trouble...
To me, the guardsmen (outside of the 1980s action force Catachans), have always been the grounding force in 40k. They are the closest to us. Not superhuman, not really exciting in any way, but super relatable.
In my view they are what the rebellion was in the OG Star Wars, the everyman struggling while the superheroes shine in the foreground.
To be One Hundred percent honest... It's not that I am hung up on a space horses hoof. I'm just saying this reminds me of the outrage that was taken when we first saw the Primaris Marines. It's a change. Some will like it, some won't. I'm not here to sway opinions. So I apologize if my verbiage angered or sowed discontent in the ranks.
Fayric wrote: I thought Death Korps of Krieg was a joke to begin with. Like they had to bring the grimdark-o-meter up to 11 and had a good chuckle about it.
Not at all. The guys at Forge World back then were WW1/WW2/modern military enthusiasts and really serious about it. They created whole armies for Krieg and the Elysians that were quite different from the usual Imperial Guard.
The new ones are like a cat trying to catch a toy on a string with articulated toes:
They are very different.
youve used a pic that obfuscates the actual model.
they have one extra toe than the old models. but their feet originally had two very large separate claws with 2 small ones on the sides.
theres nothing short or stubby about those. they are larger than the new model claws...
I used their stock painted mini, it wasn't to obfuscate anything. That's the mini that was in cabinets in WHW to look at. Honestly they don't look larger, they also don't really resemble claws, they just look like a lightly elongated cloven hoof. The claw length on both appears to be about 1/3 of the guardsman heads length, I think the wtfever that is/horse is larger than the old one giving the impression of smaller digits.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but for me the old ones were creepy not-quite right horses, the new ones feel more like an aborted kroot mount with a horses head attached.
The new ones are like a cat trying to catch a toy on a string with articulated toes:
They are very different.
youve used a pic that obfuscates the actual model.
they have one extra toe than the old models. but their feet originally had two very large separate claws with 2 small ones on the sides.
theres nothing short or stubby about those. they are larger than the new model claws...
For me the main difference between these two are that the old ones were just two claws coming out of a single stump of leg while the new ones have actual movable toes with a claw each. The old one might also have had toes but you can't really see them since all four are just flat on the ground while on the new one the two front feet clearly show the toes.
If you only look at the back feet the new one looks completely fine and not that different to the resin version, its really just the other two that look kinda weird to me
Makes sense - a lot of early GW mounts were on the smaller side (esp in the old plastics). More modern ones the mounts range from being a little to considerably larger.
and mounts should probably bigger than they previously were, anyway. even normal horses are big, and so mutant soldier horses being bigger is entirely reasonable
Eldar busted because they won't be able to win without strands of fate, or busted because they'll have movement abilities that allow them to run rings around everyone?
Seems like GW can't get anything but a space marine right, so why don't they just give everyone space marine stats and call the miniatures an aesthetic choice?
Choose your gamer skin for a set of identical rules.
Trying to make a predominantly T3 W1 army competitive while sitting within the elite niche requires a lot of rules finagling because they're competing with T6 multi wound armies of marine variants.
people always hate on the elves because the game is not designed around optimising the factors the eldar use to win battles, so any rules they end up seemingly cause issues for everyone.
Lathe Biosas wrote: It's seems like the like to wait until you have brought everything before beating your army to death with the Nerf Bat.
*Laughs in 9th edition Votann*
Seriously, everyone realized immediately that the first Votann codex was so busted it would completely warp the meta, and some tournament(s) in Europe actually banned it. This caused GW to make a knee-jerk reaction in the form of a Day 0 balance update, completely changing several key rules and rendering the physical copies of the book obsolete. This left a very bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. However, they did release the update before releasing the whole range of models, which actually seemed like one of the more benevolent things they could have done, instead of waiting until everyone bought their armies (which would have looked like an absolute bait-and-switch and pissed off a lot more players). So the precedent is there for them to make balance changes before players get all their models if something in the book is very obviously broken.
Crimson wrote: They just look weird and awful and do not fit the rest of the model, which is a huge shame as rest of the model looks really cool. And they are not like feet of the Forgeworld ponies. Those obviously didn't look like feet of normal horses either, but they did look like ungulate feet so they made sense with the rest of the anatomy.
Eh, no, it made no sense at all. Cows, pigs, and the rest of even-toed ungulates are completely different biological order (one of the highest classification ranks just below a kingdom) than odd-toed ungulates like horses. In fact, said cow is more closely related to a whale than it is to a horse. That's why old ones looked so wrong (on top of a terrible anatomy), it was a mix of body parts of animal groups separated by 70+ million years of evolution put together in a haphazard way.
Fun fact, direct ancestor of a horse did in fact have three fingers ending with 'claws' (plus two small side ones like new Krieg 'horses'), and a regression to ancestral trait of one body part is much more believable and less complicated than trying to make a cow or goat into horse like thing. So, yeah:
Spoiler:
... they're genetically modified lab-grown clones. Natual evolution and how closely related they aren't to a pig or cow compared to a regular horse really doesn't matter.
Slight mistake on his CP rumour from last time instead of the Guardians its 10 Dire Avengers which brings it more in line with the other CPs at a discount of 34% instead of 41%. So would be Spiritseer, 10 Dire Avengers, 5 Warp Spiders, 5 Wraithblades/Warpguardians. Also he says 24 models in the box which only makes sense if GW starts counting the little idol/altar pieces included in the Aspect Warriors sets. They didn't do that on the individual boxes until now as they all say 5 models so if they change that and the idols count as actual models now that might also mean they get actual rules in the Codex? Or at least some rule that needs a counter like that.
Still believes in the Corsairs rumours but since they are unlikely to get another reveal about them before the Codex drops I think they will be part of a future campaign book or the end of edition campaign instead. Models are a new Viper kit with a rotating enclosed turret on the back and three weapon options. Also apparently a Corsairs only build? "A lot more sleek, compact more like the Venom style" A Jump Pack unit like the old FW unit. For characters they get a Corsairs seer and Prince Yriel.
High salt for this on but Valrak says the source can generally be trusted. Exodites are coming via Kill Team
Also a Grey Knights Kill Team and a Khorne based Kill Team (so likely World Eaters?)
Again says that EC are supposed to come in Spring 2025 but dates can change at any time. Also from what he heard GW is painting them in pink and black so not like the one on the Aeldari Codex cover
I can't help but feel that Exodites via Killteam is just GW trolling Exodites fans cause isn't killteam mostly just infantry boxed sets and the whole thing about Exodites is Eldar+dinosaurs instead of vehicles.
That is unless they give them little dinosaur pets!
Overread wrote: I can't help but feel that Exodites via Killteam is just GW trolling Exodites fans cause isn't killteam mostly just infantry boxed sets and the whole thing about Exodites is Eldar+dinosaurs instead of vehicles.
That is unless they give them little dinosaur pets!
They could simply go the same way Krieg and supposedly Corsairs are by releasing the base infantry kit via Kill Team first and than a full faction wave in the next edition
Eh, no, it made no sense at all. Cows, pigs, and the rest of even-toed ungulates are completely different biological order (one of the highest classification ranks just below a kingdom) than odd-toed ungulates like horses. In fact, said cow is more closely related to a whale than it is to a horse.
This is a bit of an exaggeration; the second part is accurate enough but a taxonomic order is a long way down from a kingdom. In between is phylum (vertebrates and invertebrates) and class (e.g. mammals).
And we can safely assume whatever the Death Riders of Krieg are sitting on are just alien lifeforms anyway, so none of this really matters.
Matrindur wrote: New Valrak rumours:
Still believes in the Corsairs rumours but since they are unlikely to get another reveal about them before the Codex drops I think they will be part of a future campaign book or the end of edition campaign instead.
Models are a new Viper kit with a rotating enclosed turret on the back and three weapon options. Also apparently a Corsairs only build? "A lot more sleek, compact more like the Venom style"
A Jump Pack unit like the old FW unit. For characters they get a Corsairs seer and Prince Yriel.
would definitely be excited to see more of this. corsairs are the part of eldar i'm most interested in seeing brought to life in plastic, and feel like a significant gap in the range
High salt for this on but Valrak says the source can generally be trusted.
Exodites are coming via Kill Team
i hope they do the warcry/underworlds thing of having mostly a bunch of normal guys, and then a few animal friends tagging along for the ride
also yeah, if this ends up leading into a proper range, even if small, that would be really exciting
Also a Grey Knights Kill Team and a Khorne based Kill Team (so likely World Eaters?)
have they done a box that is space marines vs space marines before, aside from the recent starter box? a WE kill team would certainly be appreciated, especially to flesh out the range, but i'm also wondering about something demon-based, or maybe a mix of demons and cultists (this would depend on if demons get folded in with cults like the rumors say)
Dudeface wrote: Honestly the more eldar factions they try to spin up the more of a bad idea ynnari feels like
Surely the opposite is true? Ynnari are essentially an excuse to make eldar soup lists; players can combine small groups of Harlequins, Corsairs, and Exodites without needing to invest a full ~2k pts into just one of them.
Ynnari act as both a fluff justification, and in recent kits a way to add some cohesive bits across the different sub-ranges that ties them back together.
Also a Grey Knights Kill Team and a Khorne based Kill Team (so likely World Eaters?)
have they done a box that is space marines vs space marines before, aside from the recent starter box? a WE kill team would certainly be appreciated, especially to flesh out the range, but i'm also wondering about something demon-based, or maybe a mix of demons and cultists (this would depend on if demons get folded in with cults like the rumors say)
Just to clarify this doesn't mean these are in the same box just that both are coming. They could be against each other and would fit if the Khorne team is Daemons instead but could just as likely be against others
There is still the question of the Harlequin Troupe Master, which is currently without an official model. With so many new Aspect Warriors and Phoenix Lords announced in one go, I'm guessing that the Troupe Master will soon have one of the following fates...
1) Introduced with a dedicated sculpt in Kill Team alongside Troupe Players and an alternative wargear sprue.
2) Moved to legends and the Shadowseer will take over as the Warlord.
3) A last minute reveal for the release of the 10th edition codex.
...but being positive I'd go with being introduced in Kill Team.
Also he says 24 models in the box which only makes sense if GW starts counting the little idol/altar pieces included in the Aspect Warriors sets. They didn't do that on the individual boxes until now as they all say 5 models so if they change that and the idols count as actual models now that might also mean they get actual rules in the Codex? Or at least some rule that needs a counter like that.
There is some previous presidence for this. I know they used to count the teleport homer in the terminator box (oop one) as a model, as it claimed "6 models" on the box.
Also a Grey Knights Kill Team and a Khorne based Kill Team (so likely World Eaters?)
have they done a box that is space marines vs space marines before, aside from the recent starter box? a WE kill team would certainly be appreciated, especially to flesh out the range, but i'm also wondering about something demon-based, or maybe a mix of demons and cultists (this would depend on if demons get folded in with cults like the rumors say)
Just to clarify this doesn't mean these are in the same box just that both are coming. They could be against each other and would fit if the Khorne team is Daemons instead but could just as likely be against others
Dudeface wrote: Honestly the more eldar factions they try to spin up the more of a bad idea ynnari feels like
Surely the opposite is true? Ynnari are essentially an excuse to make eldar soup lists; players can combine small groups of Harlequins, Corsairs, and Exodites without needing to invest a full ~2k pts into just one of them.
Ynnari act as both a fluff justification, and in recent kits a way to add some cohesive bits across the different sub-ranges that ties them back together.
Ynnari are a fluff catch 22 at this point. They clearly can never complete their quest or there would be no need for other eldar factions and they won't want to kill slaanesh. They can't justify their own range either because who needs 4 eldar ranges with less than half a dozen kits in addition to the big 2. They can't remain stuck in the craftworld codex because frankly feth you drukhari players at that point. They can't fit 4 whole "almost factions" into the craftworld book either and keep the number of detachments/options sane. They can't possibly balance the combination of all 6 eldar factions in one super faction either.
Unless they're separated out into a little separate codex which is the 3 characters and a smattering of defined units from the other ranges, they will continue to be an uncomfortable mistake imo.
Darkial wrote: As happy as I am with the new spiders, it's anyone else thinking that there was a missed opportunity to made them more dynamic as the Phoenix Lord? I mean it seems that only one has some of that web effect on the leg and it would have been cool to see more of that and jumping.
No? The less "dynamic" the sculpts are, the better things will look on the table if multiple units are fielded - and probably even within the same unit of 10 are fielded.
I brought this up to a local player yesterday. What if we can no longer take units of 10? Maybe 5 will become the only option? I have no specific knowledge or preference but observed how GW has made those changes with other units.
no other unit of aspect warriors has been limited to five. they even are selling scorpions in boxes of ten at the moment
Automatically Appended Next Post: also my feeling on paint jobs is that, in general, people need to use more color, not less. tables look boring if everyone is painted in drab colors. 2nd edition got this right
Interestingly, the Striking Scorpion Kill Team is not even displayed on the GW website (US).
The updated Banshees and Reapers are sold in a boxset of 5 models. 4 Aspect Warriors and an Exarch with weapon options.
The downsizing of units have occurred in other armies when their respective codex was released (Tau and Dark Angels off the top of my head).
Feel free to #isagree. Not saying the squad size will be limited to 5, but I would not say it is out of the question.
Yinnari is going to be in the Craftworld Codex as an option - they confirmed it along wth the codex including the required Dark Elf models.
Yinnari is stuck. As a concept its just mashing existing model lines together. It only has 3 unique models to itself; everything else is parts of other armies which have very distinct styles.
Eldar also has Corsairs and Exoidtes which both offer more creativity and more diverse options IF GW were to explore them. They are also much older and honestly better to invest into than a new concept that has only been around for a little.
In the end Eldar are just not as popular as Imperials to justify 6 subfactions. There's also an issue of GW getting creative shortfalls which I feel is kind of why Harliquins started their own codex and then fell back into Craftworld. There just wasn't the creative/financial drive there to develop an entire new line of models that were distinct. It also doesn't help that at the same time GW were trying to do that and Yinnari; Eldar were running around with 1st generation models and a lot of old aspect classes.
Craftworld being almost fully updated now and with Dark Eldar in a good spot (save for losing a bunch of leaders) would be a better time for a combined arms force.
For me it's hard to see Ynnari as anything other than the abortive end times of the eldar. I honestly believe they started out with the intent of putting down both craftworld and dark eldar during rising storm, dropping the ancient kits and starting eldar back our as a singular cohesive faction that they could then chunk out in the future.
Framing it as I do mentally, I can't ever see their continued inclusion as anything but a problem as they never completed their design brief seemingly.
Dudeface wrote: For me it's hard to see Ynnari as anything other than the abortive end times of the eldar. I honestly believe they started out with the intent of putting down both craftworld and dark eldar during rising storm, dropping the ancient kits and starting eldar back our as a singular cohesive faction that they could then chunk out in the future.
Framing it as I do mentally, I can't ever see their continued inclusion as anything but a problem as they never completed their design brief seemingly.
Naw I don't think it was that, I think it was a move to make an army out of nothing. GW was doing some odd things in those days; like taking the latest version of Space Marines and instead of updating the line they released them alongside the line as Primaris. Yinnari was an attempt to get Craftworld and Dark Eldar players to buy the "other half" of models to make a new Yinnari army.
It was odd times and odd choices born of a management that was increasingly separated from their customers and looking at bit too much at the raw data and sales figures and not applying enough contextual understanding of what was driving the numbers (you know like customer feedback questionnaires and such)
Matrindur wrote: lso he says 24 models in the box which only makes sense if GW starts counting the little idol/altar pieces included in the Aspect Warriors sets. They didn't do that on the individual boxes until now as they all say 5 models so if they change that and the idols count as actual models now that might also mean they get actual rules in the Codex? Or at least some rule that needs a counter like that.
I don't doubt that eventually the aspect shrine idols will have some in-game value, but since the Dire Avengers don't have one in their current box, I would say that it won't happen for at least another edition, once every Aspect has access to them.
I pretty solidly share the belief that Ynarri were designed to remove the Drukhari codex. Feels in line with other bits of what was going on at the time.
LunarSol wrote: I pretty solidly share the belief that Ynarri were designed to remove the Drukhari codex. Feels in line with other bits of what was going on at the time.
I doubt that, since they never had access to Haemonculi Coven units unless they also planned either dropping Covens(doubt it) or just making Covens their own separate army(again, doubt it).
Regarding Ynnari, I think it's an interesting concept that's been heavily marred by a lack of effort on GW's part.
Tying detachments to special characters was something I thought the game had grown out of. And making them completely Eldar-centric when Craftworlds had already been allowed to eat both Harlequins and Corsairs was just depressing.
LunarSol wrote: I pretty solidly share the belief that Ynarri were designed to remove the Drukhari codex. Feels in line with other bits of what was going on at the time.
I could certainly believe it, given that GW spent the next 14 years treading water with the faction. No attempt to add new units, no attempt to replace the myriad of units and options they lost.
Marshal Loss wrote: Rumours were no models for them though right? Which means they'll just be a blip before we get to 40k's most perfect army
No idea - I didn't watch the roadmap preview show, so I don't know if anything was said. I did think they'd said at the start of the edition that every Codex would get at least a model released for it, though.
Rumours were no models for them though right? Which means they'll just be a blip before we get to 40k's most perfect army
Not heard anything either way, but it would be the second edition Knight players would miss out on. The last time they scraped by bundling the variants for the Armigers and Dominus kits, which incured a price-hike.
My own "stab in the dark" is House Militia for Imperial Knights, and then later on a Tyrant kit for Chaos Knights. Much like the Questoris and Armiger kits, the House Militia can be given its own datasheet in the Chaos Knights codex.
Militia would open up both Combat Patrol and Kill Team.
Sarigar wrote: Interestingly, the Striking Scorpion Kill Team is not even displayed on the GW website (US).
legionaires wrote:Going back to the DKoK stuff, did GW pull the Veteran Guardsmen KT box? I couldn't find it today when I was looking to price out the army.
For both its because not all KT sets have been rereleased for the new edition yet
According to Auspex Tactics this is apperently the new AM Combat Patrol:
Slightly worse discount compared to the old one at 31% compared to 35% and probably a worse selection of models to start with for most people (Not a single basic infantry squad?)
Does also mean the Krieg army set contents won't just be the CP contents so no reason to wait if you want the contents on a discount
According to Auspex Tactics this is apperently the new AM Combat Patrol:
Spoiler:
Slightly worse discount compared to the old one at 31% compared to 35% and probably a worse selection of models to start with for most people (Not a single basic infantry squad?)
Does also mean the Krieg army set contents won't just be the CP contents so no reason to wait if you want the contents on a discount
Personal opinion here - disregarding the lower level of price per model, etc etc. This box seems more aimed at veteran collectors who haven't pulled the trigger on some of the newer minis. I get a new Cadian Command sprue (really just tons of kitbashing potential there if I don't already have one), ten rough riders (Which a vet may have, if older or their own kitbashed) and some of the newer kasrkin (which were insane to find at one point and I likely have older versions already).
A new collector wouldn't know what to do with this box. A vet has these guys already slotted into critical spaces if needed (Heavy on the "IF")
have they done a box that is space marines vs space marines before, aside from the recent starter box? a WE kill team would certainly be appreciated, especially to flesh out the range, but i'm also wondering about something demon-based, or maybe a mix of demons and cultists (this would depend on if demons get folded in with cults like the rumors say)
have they done a box that is space marines vs space marines before, aside from the recent starter box? a WE kill team would certainly be appreciated, especially to flesh out the range, but i'm also wondering about something demon-based, or maybe a mix of demons and cultists (this would depend on if demons get folded in with cults like the rumors say)
i was thinking for kill team specifically, but that makes sense
According to Auspex Tactics this is apperently the new AM Combat Patrol:
Spoiler:
Slightly worse discount compared to the old one at 31% compared to 35% and probably a worse selection of models to start with for most people (Not a single basic infantry squad?)
Does also mean the Krieg army set contents won't just be the CP contents so no reason to wait if you want the contents on a discount
Personal opinion here - disregarding the lower level of price per model, etc etc. This box seems more aimed at veteran collectors who haven't pulled the trigger on some of the newer minis. I get a new Cadian Command sprue (really just tons of kitbashing potential there if I don't already have one), ten rough riders (Which a vet may have, if older or their own kitbashed) and some of the newer kasrkin (which were insane to find at one point and I likely have older versions already).
A new collector wouldn't know what to do with this box. A vet has these guys already slotted into critical spaces if needed (Heavy on the "IF")
I'm pretty sure the goal this edition is to normalize the Combat Patrol contents a bit so that next edition they can push it as its own game similar to Spearhead. I assume the Rough Riders result in something more points equivalent than the old box, which while a good deal, was still incredibly low compared to other boxes.
I'm pretty sure the goal this edition is to normalize the Combat Patrol contents a bit so that next edition they can push it as its own game similar to Spearhead. I assume the Rough Riders result in something more points equivalent than the old box, which while a good deal, was still incredibly low compared to other boxes.
I think it's also a case of what plays well in combat patrol.
Don't get me wrong I love the old one (need to pick up another before it disappears) but it's very gun line, while what I've seen of combat patrol it plays much more around close range shooting and close combat (I mean 40K already does in general, but it seems to me Combat Patrol is the same but moreso). So I think in this case it's about giving an option that plays to those strengths.
Eh, no, it made no sense at all. Cows, pigs, and the rest of even-toed ungulates are completely different biological order (one of the highest classification ranks just below a kingdom) than odd-toed ungulates like horses. In fact, said cow is more closely related to a whale than it is to a horse.
This is a bit of an exaggeration; the second part is accurate enough but a taxonomic order is a long way down from a kingdom. In between is phylum (vertebrates and invertebrates) and class (e.g. mammals).
And we can safely assume whatever the Death Riders of Krieg are sitting on are just alien lifeforms anyway, so none of this really matters.
Indeed. As the mnemonic I learnt in school goes:
Keep P**** Clean Or Forget Good S**
Kingdom Phylum, Class Order Genus Species
There was a cleaner one that I promptly forgot...
StudentOfEtherium wrote:and mounts should probably bigger than they previously were, anyway. even normal horses are big, and so mutant soldier horses being bigger is entirely reasonable
Big horses aren't great for combat, despite what Hollywood tells us. They look cool though!
Smaller horses are much more agile and able to manoeuvre in combat, they also need less feed on campaign. A good example would be PRE horses (purebred Spanish horses), one of the oldest formal breeds. They are short and stocky compared to modern warmblood sport horses, but they can turn on a dime. Being stocky, they still have plenty of strength.
Mongolian horses are similar, in fact they are so short they are typically in the height range that would be considered a pony (less than 15 hands) but get honorary horse status because they helped form the largest land empire in history.
I think it depends - combat has a call for horses of all kinds. From drafts to pull carts and waggons for supplies through to lighter faster breeds all the way to what we'd consider a warhorse which is heavier and chunkier and designed to carry an armoured warrior into battle.
By contrast I think the thing was GW old horses were very much designed as horses in proportions (rather than pony proportions) but were sized more like a pony and then had an armoured knight put on top. They just didn't look right.
Now granted a lot of things in fantasy don't look right even when they are actually realistic (take real warhammers being a LOT smaller than fantasy ones). So sometimes we have to accept that reality takes a side step to fantasy tropes.
I think the other thing is posing and style. Fast horses that can turn on a dime isn't something GW could model 20-30 years ago. At least outside of a special one-off resin sculpt; certainly not something rank and file or army boxed set style. So I do also think that comes into play is in showing how agile a horse could be on the battlefield within the model.
StudentOfEtherium wrote:and mounts should probably bigger than they previously were, anyway. even normal horses are big, and so mutant soldier horses being bigger is entirely reasonable
Big horses aren't great for combat, despite what Hollywood tells us. They look cool though!
Smaller horses are much more agile and able to manoeuvre in combat, they also need less feed on campaign. A good example would be PRE horses (purebred Spanish horses), one of the oldest formal breeds. They are short and stocky compared to modern warmblood sport horses, but they can turn on a dime. Being stocky, they still have plenty of strength.
Mongolian horses are similar, in fact they are so short they are typically in the height range that would be considered a pony (less than 15 hands) but get honorary horse status because they helped form the largest land empire in history.
see, that's fair, but swords that are chainsaws are also not especially practical in real combat, so i'm a bit ambivalent towards real world practicality when it comes to 40k. guys riding horses is cool, and that's what i care about here
see, that's fair, but swords that are chainsaws are also not especially practical in real combat, so i'm a bit ambivalent towards real world practicality when it comes to 40k. guys riding horses is cool, and that's what i care about here
I love the fact that Knights in 40k, are jousting Ladies and Lords in giant bipedal steeds swingong obscenely heroic chainswords, while their mighty feet churn the terrain and any tools who get into their way into an unrecognizable mess as they charge headlong into the fray!
That's 40k. Every battle should be an epic battle. A story to be shared with friends on how a lone Neophyte stood toe to hoof with a vile xenos gun line, and struck them done in a vicious melee!
As long as the models look the part for your 40k story, I think that's what matters.
According to Auspex Tactics this is apperently the new AM Combat Patrol:
Spoiler:
Slightly worse discount compared to the old one at 31% compared to 35% and probably a worse selection of models to start with for most people (Not a single basic infantry squad?)
Does also mean the Krieg army set contents won't just be the CP contents so no reason to wait if you want the contents on a discount
Personal opinion here - disregarding the lower level of price per model, etc etc. This box seems more aimed at veteran collectors who haven't pulled the trigger on some of the newer minis. I get a new Cadian Command sprue (really just tons of kitbashing potential there if I don't already have one), ten rough riders (Which a vet may have, if older or their own kitbashed) and some of the newer kasrkin (which were insane to find at one point and I likely have older versions already).
A new collector wouldn't know what to do with this box. A vet has these guys already slotted into critical spaces if needed (Heavy on the "IF")
I was going to say, that box looks great to me. I have effectively 2 Cadian armies already - original metal & then 3e+ era plastics/metals. And a full 3 squads of metal Attillans. Were I to start a modern 9e+ Cadian force I'd pick up this box x3. It'd complete my new Rider & new Karskins + some command squads in one go. And save me some $ as well....
But alas, Krieg has laid claim to the 2025 hobby budget.
And I think you're wrong about new players. If this is what they get? Then they'll figure out how to use it pretty quick.
The last Emperor's Children tease was two weeks ago. Looking ahead, might we expect another tease in two weeks on Dec. 11? And what might we get for Christmas on Dec. 25???
Zhrukal wrote: The last Emperor's Children tease was two weeks ago. Looking ahead, might we expect another tease in two weeks on Dec. 11? And what might we get for Christmas on Dec. 25???
Zhrukal wrote: The last Emperor's Children tease was two weeks ago. Looking ahead, might we expect another tease in two weeks on Dec. 11? And what might we get for Christmas on Dec. 25???
I don't know why people always come and say 'EM paintjob is trash, I like it more then ultra gritty, realistic jobs from others. I don't know why but somehow, to me, the reallistic approach goes so hard on the reallistic approach that it starts to look like an imitation of "real".
I don't know if I made sense.
Leggy wrote: Saw this rumour on discord about the upcoming Balance Dataslate, codexes and detachments.
Can anyone trace it back to its source?
CMLR wrote: I don't know why people always come and say 'EM paintjob is trash, I like it more then ultra gritty, realistic jobs from others. I don't know why but somehow, to me, the reallistic approach goes so hard on the reallistic approach that it starts to look like an imitation of "real".
I don't know if I made sense.
Leggy wrote: Saw this rumour on discord about the upcoming Balance Dataslate, codexes and detachments.
Can anyone trace it back to its source?
)
huh, that sounds like a good idea for another thread.
Thats crazy, I got at least 15 of them and was sure they came in either shooty or choppy 
