CMLR wrote:
I don't know why people always come and say 'EM paintjob is trash, I like it more then ultra gritty, realistic jobs from others. I don't know why but somehow, to me, the reallistic approach goes so hard on the reallistic approach that it starts to look like an imitation of "real".

I don't know if I made sense.

Leggy wrote:
Saw this rumour on discord about the upcoming Balance Dataslate, codexes and detachments.
Can anyone trace it back to its source?

Codices

Codipodes.

EM point jobs do a better job of showing off the model, most of the time. FW goes for a more drab, realistic, look, but can go too far at times into the "real is brown" trope.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:


Codipodes.

EM point jobs do a better job of showing off the model, most of the time. FW goes for a more drab, realistic, look, but can go too far at times into the "real is brown" trope.

What's a Point job? Is that for hunting foxes?


Also, I think the new pain job's are more exciting and fun... not as realistic... but more fun.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:


Codipodes.

EM point jobs do a better job of showing off the model, most of the time. FW goes for a more drab, realistic, look, but can go too far at times into the "real is brown" trope.

What's a Point job? Is that for hunting foxes?


Also, I think the new pain job's are more exciting and fun... not as realistic... but more fun.

It's a less Slaaneshi autocorrect of a Pain job, apparently.

I'm mixed on the DKoK army box. I like the artillery and engineers, horses and lord are take them or leave them. Probably will come down to price, and if the US does end up paying a stupidity tax/tariff by the time it comes out. I do quite like the HW teams though. Twin heavy stubbers on a wheeled mount is kind of peak Kreig Futility feels

Wild speculation based on rumor:

I bet the "legionaries" aren't an upgrade kit or normal CSM. Instead they'll be some kind of horror show flash-grown marines, some Fabius Bile kinda thing. Lesser than normal marines, more than cultists, taken in units of 10-20.

I would also bet that the noise marines/elite swordsmen are built from the same kit. So the 12 in the starter box can be built as 3/3/3/3 or 6/6 or 12.

...with Fabius Bile being in the CSM Codex (as far as I can tell from the tiny print on the GW preview image), are people expecting him to also show up in the EC book?

Isn't Fabulus Bill kind of a free agent these days? Would make more sense to keep him in the book with the posessed and cultists that he experiments on instead of putting him in the EC book, where I assume Fulgrim and Lucius will be.

StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

StudentOfEtherium wrote:and mounts should probably bigger than they previously were, anyway. even normal horses are big, and so mutant soldier horses being bigger is entirely reasonable

Big horses aren't great for combat, despite what Hollywood tells us. They look cool though!

Smaller horses are much more agile and able to manoeuvre in combat, they also need less feed on campaign. A good example would be PRE horses (purebred Spanish horses), one of the oldest formal breeds. They are short and stocky compared to modern warmblood sport horses, but they can turn on a dime. Being stocky, they still have plenty of strength.

Mongolian horses are similar, in fact they are so short they are typically in the height range that would be considered a pony (less than 15 hands) but get honorary horse status because they helped form the largest land empire in history.

see, that's fair, but swords that are chainsaws are also not especially practical in real combat, so i'm a bit ambivalent towards real world practicality when it comes to 40k. guys riding horses is cool, and that's what i care about here

Oh, I am fully on board with Rule of Cool. Big pretty horses are, well, big and pretty. I have one! A 16.3 hands warmblood. But short, stocky horses like the older models are definitely reasonable designs when compared to historic warhorses and probably superior. The actual models had limitations of the time like very chunky legs though.

Overread wrote:I think it depends - combat has a call for horses of all kinds. From drafts to pull carts and waggons for supplies through to lighter faster breeds all the way to what we'd consider a warhorse which is heavier and chunkier and designed to carry an armoured warrior into battle.

By contrast I think the thing was GW old horses were very much designed as horses in proportions (rather than pony proportions) but were sized more like a pony and then had an armoured knight put on top. They just didn't look right.

Now granted a lot of things in fantasy don't look right even when they are actually realistic (take real warhammers being a LOT smaller than fantasy ones). So sometimes we have to accept that reality takes a side step to fantasy tropes.


I think the other thing is posing and style. Fast horses that can turn on a dime isn't something GW could model 20-30 years ago. At least outside of a special one-off resin sculpt; certainly not something rank and file or army boxed set style. So I do also think that comes into play is in showing how agile a horse could be on the battlefield within the model.

I am talking about chargers. The heaviest warhorses from the late medieval and renaissance were short compared to most modern sport horses. A charger needed to be manoeuvrable, especially if it was expected to force its way into an infantry block. Spanish horses pretty much typify the ideal knightly warhorse, and they are short for horses today. I'm struggling to find a good picture to show this. Big horses essentially just lose agility by virtue of their size, the biomechanics just aren't favourable. My warmblood knows exactly where she is putting her feet, but she turns comparatively slowly (good for me as a beginner, much easier to stay seated if something unexpected happens). I've ridden a Spanish horse that was 15 hands and that chap could rotate on the spot with ease (I'm not a good rider so it was pretty disconcerting when he spooked!). He could also comfortably carry 100-120kg, i.e. a fully armoured knight.

 Dysartes wrote:
...with Fabius Bile being in the CSM Codex (as far as I can tell from the tiny print on the GW preview image), are people expecting him to also show up in the EC book?

With Imperial Agents and the upcoming Craftworlds book, GW is seemingly willing to duplicate datasheets across codexes.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
...with Fabius Bile being in the CSM Codex (as far as I can tell from the tiny print on the GW preview image), are people expecting him to also show up in the EC book?

With Imperial Agents and the upcoming Craftworlds book, GW is seemingly willing to duplicate datasheets across codexes.

Regardless, Bile isn’t an Emperors Children character anymore and hasn’t been for years. He’s his own thing. Obviously that could change, but it would be a change, and I hope it doesn’t.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
...with Fabius Bile being in the CSM Codex (as far as I can tell from the tiny print on the GW preview image), are people expecting him to also show up in the EC book?

With Imperial Agents and the upcoming Craftworlds book, GW is seemingly willing to duplicate datasheets across codexes.

...no? The Sisters and Grey Knights units from Imperial Agents may be very similar to existing units in other sources, but they are still different datasheets.

I would not expect Bile in an Emperor's Children book since - while he might be one genetically - he's clearly no longer part of the Legion. He would make far more sense in an Agents of Chaos book than Emperor's Children.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
...with Fabius Bile being in the CSM Codex (as far as I can tell from the tiny print on the GW preview image), are people expecting him to also show up in the EC book?

With Imperial Agents and the upcoming Craftworlds book, GW is seemingly willing to duplicate datasheets across codexes.

...no? The Sisters and Grey Knights units from Imperial Agents may be very similar to existing units in other sources, but they are still different datasheets.

I would not expect Bile in an Emperor's Children book since - while he might be one genetically - he's clearly no longer part of the Legion. He would make far more sense in an Agents of Chaos book than Emperor's Children.

And they could similarly surgically alter Bile's datasheet for a theoretical appearance in his parent legion's Codex. In his own novel series he does spend a lot of time hanging out with them for someone that is no longer officially a member. If nothing else, a 'Clone of Fabius Bile' datasheet to represent a rogue duplicate that's pumping out new legionaries for Fulgrim could be included.

There aren't enough units to fill out a full AoC Codex unless GW suddenly decides to throw all the daemons in there.

Also it doesn't have to be literally Fabius making freaks for EC, they've been shown doing that happily enough on their own before.

Little to no chance I think of either Bile being in the book or the EC Legionnaire squad being vat-grown freaks. They'll just be regular freaks. Also can't see Noise Marines and the rumoured elite unit being the same kit.

Would definitely love to see some evidence of the EC's focus on the Apothecarion (which is strangely lacking from 30k rules as well). Bile shouldn't be in the army, but a Fleshcrafter style character is a no-brainer at some point if not in the initial release.

 Shakalooloo wrote:


There aren't enough units to fill out a full AoC Codex unless GW suddenly decides to throw all the daemons in there.

Chaos space marines are more or less agents of chaos. They got cultists, cultist command, mutants, traitor guard, traitor commisar, mutant ogryn, beastmen, Vashtor, Bile, Cypher. And Daemons are still an option to ally If I recall correctly. Loads of crappy units to spice up your fluff list, just like the lojalist agents.

Christmas bundle boxes are on shelves today.

Local FLGS has two of each, which is nice.

I'd be surprised if Bile is in the EC Codex.

But I think its a fluff miss if there isn't some sort of side-bar that allows you to include him in an EC army. Its hard to believe this is going to somehow break the game.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-us/articles/eiv2zqzc/the-2024-grotmas-calendar/

WarCom has updated & revealed that the first detachment is Death Guard.

At the time of writing this link is dead, but expect it to work in around an hour:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/gnz6ekx8/grotmas-calendar-day-1-grandfather-nurgle-brings-gifts/

Edit: https://assets.warhammer-community.com/grotmas_detachment_death_guard_flyblown_host_eng_01-dyfowogzwd.pdf

Not at all a fan of Nurgle, but that Detachment actually looks pretty damn good.

I can't wait for the other ones.

My Deathguard is very infantry heavy so this has appeal (it’s very much a tertiary army for me). Will definitely give it a try.
I wonder how quick they will be available on app?

That detachment is actually bonkers, cant wait to see what the rwst of the calendar detachments look like. Dark Angels tomorrow!

I wonder when Deathwatch will pop up.

 bullyboy wrote:
My Deathguard is very infantry heavy so this has appeal (it’s very much a tertiary army for me). Will definitely give it a try.
I wonder how quick they will be available on app?

"Early January" according to the Grotmas calendar announcement article, which sounds about right as most UK offices will shut down between Christmas and New year and all new detachments will likely drop in one hit on the app.

Am I reading it right that for a mere 10 points Rejuvenating Swarm makes a character invulnerable unless they can be killed in a single phase..?

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Am I reading it right that for a mere 10 points Rejuvenating Swarm makes a character invulnerable unless they can be killed in a single phase..?

Sure.
How hard is it to kill an Infantry character? It makes Precision less useful, but if your list can’t kill a T5-6 W4-6 character in a phase, your list lacks offense.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Am I reading it right that for a mere 10 points Rejuvenating Swarm makes a character invulnerable unless they can be killed in a single phase..?

Sure.
How hard is it to kill an Infantry character? It makes Precision less useful, but if your list can’t kill a T5-6 W4-6 character in a phase, your list lacks offense.

That's not JUST a T6 character. DG can stack a 2+/5++ save on that, plus some ignores wounds shenanigans. It's a tough nut to crack in a single phase. If it was "per player turn" it would be more manageable. Heck, you likely can't kill them in their turn in melee

I suppose the issue comes from characters in big tanky units.

You take a large terminator squad, stick a tough character in there, that squad attracts quite a bit of fire, you choose to lose a few terminators, then when you gauge the amount still to come, you take it on the lord, he survives and you save 2 terminators that turn.

Chaos lord with a plague surgeon in a large plague marine squad, the plague surgeon is returning models to the squad whilst the lord is self repairing.


It's not ultra tanky, and probably won't swing games by itself, but it is a problem.

How do you "take it on the lord"? Either your opponent is deciding he takes it (Precision) or you're deciding which Bodyguard model takes it (so not the lord).

How long after Christmas does the Red Gobbo Balance Data Sheet come out? Boxing Day?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
How long after Christmas does the Red Gobbo Balance Data Sheet come out? Boxing Day?

...what are you babbling on about this time?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
How long after Christmas does the Red Gobbo Balance Data Sheet come out? Boxing Day?

...what are you babbling on about this time?

Babbling? Nothing.

Simply pointing out that while these detachments seem great, the new 10th Ed. META says that soon they will change them for tourney balance purposes.

So while it is exciting to see something new, I can't help but wonder how long it will last in this current interation.

The joke was, after the Red Gobbo Advent Calendar... when will the (inevitable) meta-induced update be released.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
How long after Christmas does the Red Gobbo Balance Data Sheet come out? Boxing Day?

That would be comical.

And now the Striking Scorpions kill team box from next week's pre-orders notes the box as containing 12 miniatures, so the aspect shrines are being counted as models.

 Shakalooloo wrote:
And now the Striking Scorpions kill team box from next week's pre-orders notes the box as containing 12 miniatures, so the aspect shrines are being counted as models.

Wow, this is a little disappointing. Counting the shrines as models reminds me of the Terminator teleport Homer being counted as a model.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
How long after Christmas does the Red Gobbo Balance Data Sheet come out? Boxing Day?

...what are you babbling on about this time?

Babbling? Nothing.

Simply pointing out that while these detachments seem great, the new 10th Ed. META says that soon they will change them for tourney balance purposes.

So while it is exciting to see something new, I can't help but wonder how long it will last in this current interation.

The joke was, after the Red Gobbo Advent Calendar... when will the (inevitable) meta-induced update be released.

Pretty sure they already said that the new Dataslate is due this month, as well as a new Index: Deathwatch.

Thanks, I missed the bit about the new dataslate.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
And now the Striking Scorpions kill team box from next week's pre-orders notes the box as containing 12 miniatures, so the aspect shrines are being counted as models.

Wow, this is a little disappointing. Counting the shrines as models reminds me of the Terminator teleport Homer being counted as a model.

You think that's bad, the Krieg kill team counts the medical bag as a model. It doesn't even have rules!

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
And now the Striking Scorpions kill team box from next week's pre-orders notes the box as containing 12 miniatures, so the aspect shrines are being counted as models.

Wow, this is a little disappointing. Counting the shrines as models reminds me of the Terminator teleport Homer being counted as a model.

You think that's bad, the Krieg kill team counts the medical bag as a model. It doesn't even have rules!

Wait? What? What the is that ?

 Shakalooloo wrote:

You think that's bad, the Krieg kill team counts the medical bag as a model. It doesn't even have rules!

I wouldn't be shocked if these things did get rules in the Guard & Eldar books. Teleport homers, Neuroloids, Watchers in the Dark, Imperial Agent weirdoes... all have rules for tokens in their codexes

Give me enough Imperial Agent weirdos and I might actually play 40K again

 xttz wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

You think that's bad, the Krieg kill team counts the medical bag as a model. It doesn't even have rules!

I wouldn't be shocked if these things did get rules in the Guard & Eldar books. Teleport homers, Neuroloids, Watchers in the Dark, Imperial Agent weirdoes... all have rules for tokens in their codexes

I'm kind of hoping this happens, it's an opportunity for more flavour. Like a once a game ability:

Paragons of war
Place the shrine with the unit at the beginning of any turn. That unit may move twice, shoot twice an fight twice this round. The second fight happens at the end of the combat after all other attacks and does not constitute a new combat.

Something that makes a T3 W1 unit more useful before it is inevitably annihilated because of its terrible defense.

 Hellebore wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

You think that's bad, the Krieg kill team counts the medical bag as a model. It doesn't even have rules!

I wouldn't be shocked if these things did get rules in the Guard & Eldar books. Teleport homers, Neuroloids, Watchers in the Dark, Imperial Agent weirdoes... all have rules for tokens in their codexes

I'm kind of hoping this happens, it's an opportunity for more flavour. Like a once a game ability:

Paragons of war
Place the shrine with the unit at the beginning of any turn. That unit may move twice, shoot twice an fight twice this round. The second fight happens at the end of the combat after all other attacks and does not constitute a new combat.

Something that makes a T3 W1 unit more useful before it is inevitably annihilated because of its terrible defense.

Probably a one-off effect, like causing/cancelling battleshock or providing a feel no pain for the rest of a phase.

 xttz wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

You think that's bad, the Krieg kill team counts the medical bag as a model. It doesn't even have rules!

I wouldn't be shocked if these things did get rules in the Guard & Eldar books. Teleport homers, Neuroloids, Watchers in the Dark, Imperial Agent weirdoes... all have rules for tokens in their codexes

Anyone else ever want to see an Ammo Grot fight a Watcher in the Dark? It would be like seeing Gary Colman fighting Emanuel Lewis. Such awesomeness.

DA stuff:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/bo59fcgg/grotmas-calendar-day-2-hark-the-dark-angels/

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_02_dark_angels_advent_lions_blade_task_force_detachment_2024-qhcmrea3hu-wil3mtazev.pdf

A good way to have lots of terminators charging from reserves I guess. And 'nids tomorrow.

New Valrak rumours:

Don't expect much for Grey Knights this edition, he heard they are getting multiple things in 11th edition.
This edition they are only getting an upgrade kit for the Nemesis Dreadknight with more weapon options.

The Armiger rumour for the Knights is apparently fake and instead we are getting new Questoris variants for both Loyalist and Traitor Knights.
As far as he interprets the rumours its two Knights one each for Traitors and Loyalists.
The Loyalist version has a shield generator on top and new weapon for the arms.
Nothing yet on what kind of equipment the Traitor knight has just that its also Questoris pattern.
Also the Chaos Knights codex is coming back to back to the Imperial Knights codex.

He heard Tyranid terrain is supposed to be coming but no idea if via Kill Team or directly for 40k.

He is hearing the Daemons codex is gone from all of his sources and daemons are instead going into the god aligned legion codexes.

The pauldrons and heads we have seen for EC aren't for the Noise marines but for the special EC Legionaries instead.
The Noise marine squad leader can have a noise pistol.
The army set will have a EC Lord with a spear, 2x 6-men squads of Noise marines (very unlikely probably 2x 3-men) and 2x 10-men of the special EC Legionaries.

 Matrindur wrote:
New Valrak rumours:

Don't expect much for Grey Knights this edition, he heard they are getting multiple things in 11th edition.
This edition they are only getting an upgrade kit for the Nemesis Dreadknight with more weapon options.

The Armiger rumour for the Knights is apparently fake and instead we are getting new Questoris variants for both Loyalist and Traitor Knights.
As far as he interprets the rumours its two Knights one each for Traitors and Loyalists.
The Loyalist version has a shield generator on top and new weapon for the arms.
Nothing yet on what kind of equipment the Traitor knight has just that its also Questoris pattern.
Also the Chaos Knights codex is coming back to back to the Imperial Knights codex.

He heard Tyranid terrain is supposed to be coming but no idea if via Kill Team or directly for 40k.

He is hearing the Daemons codex is gone from all of his sources and daemons are instead going into the god aligned legion codexes.

The pauldrons and heads we have seen for EC aren't for the Noise marines but for the special EC Legionaries instead.
The Noise marine squad leader can have a noise pistol.
The army set will have a EC Lord with a spear, 2x 6-men squads of Noise marines (very unlikely probably 2x 3-men) and 2x 10-men of the special EC Legionaries.

he's been insistent on six man squads, it seems... won't be surprised if it turns out to be true

noise pistol sounds cool, and i'm glad the cool stuff is going to be in the bigger box (makes it easier to pick up for conversions, certainly)

I wonder if the spear from the rumour engine belongs to the EC Lord then.

Votann was released September 2022 with a promise of a 2nd wave... 10th starts in June 2023 and no sign of it yet... so I can assume it's either late end of 10th or start of 11th?

Kinda sucks.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Votann was released September 2022 with a promise of a 2nd wave... 10th starts in June 2023 and no sign of it yet... so I can assume it's either late end of 10th or start of 11th?

Kinda sucks.

I thought Votann got more stuff already beyond the KT. As new as they are I feel like they're pretty diverse and well supported. Haven't followed too closely though so I could be way off on that.

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:


he's been insistent on six man squads, it seems... won't be surprised if it turns out to be true

noise pistol sounds cool, and i'm glad the cool stuff is going to be in the bigger box (makes it easier to pick up for conversions, certainly)

Assuming the Noise Marines are 51,25€ for 3x as that is the price for the Eightbound/Deathshroud Bodyguard thats 205€ just in Noise Marines.
The EC Legionaries shouldn't be less than 55€ as the normal ones are that price so another 110€ on top.
Probably around 34€ for the HQ.

That would add up to 349€ without the Codex and cards so 422€ including them.
That is more than 100€ more than the Kroot and DA army sets had in them.
The only army set that is similar is the Blood Angels one but that is also heavily subsidized by 112€ of upgrade sprues and the fact its mostly old models.

If this turns out correct and its still 180€ like the BA set that would mean a 57% discount on completely new models for a completely new faction and I just can't see that.
If its instead 2x3 Noise Marines that would reduce the content to 319,5€ which is perfectly in line with the DA and Kroot sets and would mean a discount of 44% so still pretty great.

But I guess the EC Legionaries could be 50€ instead if they have less weapon options than the CSM Legionaries inside and the Noise Marines could be 45€ since they shouldn't be Terminator size like the other two examples above in which case the total would be 387€.
And if the army set makes another jump to 190€ that would bring it to 51% discount so still better than the other sets with completely new models.
And personally I find higher individual model prices and less models in the box more likely than lower individual prices, more models in the box and a slightly higher price for the army set.

 LunarSol wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Votann was released September 2022 with a promise of a 2nd wave... 10th starts in June 2023 and no sign of it yet... so I can assume it's either late end of 10th or start of 11th?

Kinda sucks.

I thought Votann got more stuff already beyond the KT. As new as they are I feel like they're pretty diverse and well supported. Haven't followed too closely though so I could be way off on that.

They got a Warhammer Day model, two Kill Team teams and I think they may have gotten a store birthday model, but I don't pay much attention to that, so that may not be accurate. No second wave yet, and probably only the pioneer Kill Team on foot as any meaningful addition to the army.

I don't know what GW may or may not have said about a second wave, but the things I see people immediately point to when glaring omissions in the lineup come up are jump troops like the single model in the first Kill Team and flyers. Plus maybe a Lord of War, though that doesn't seem to get brought up that often.

 Geifer wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Votann was released September 2022 with a promise of a 2nd wave... 10th starts in June 2023 and no sign of it yet... so I can assume it's either late end of 10th or start of 11th?

Kinda sucks.

I thought Votann got more stuff already beyond the KT. As new as they are I feel like they're pretty diverse and well supported. Haven't followed too closely though so I could be way off on that.

They got a Warhammer Day model, two Kill Team teams and I think they may have gotten a store birthday model, but I don't pay much attention to that, so that may not be accurate. No second wave yet, and probably only the pioneer Kill Team on foot as any meaningful addition to the army.

I don't know what GW may or may not have said about a second wave, but the things I see people immediately point to when glaring omissions in the lineup come up are jump troops like the single model in the first Kill Team and flyers. Plus maybe a Lord of War, though that doesn't seem to get brought up that often.

I think I thought the jump troop model was a unit.

 Geifer wrote:

I don't know what GW may or may not have said about a second wave, but the things I see people immediately point to when glaring omissions in the lineup come up are jump troops like the single model in the first Kill Team and flyers. Plus maybe a Lord of War, though that doesn't seem to get brought up that often.

Lords of War on a whole are a very rare release (Though that classification is gone now of course)
I think the only ones released since the start of 8th have been Mortarion, Angron and the Monolith and Silent King for Necrons. I guess the Norn Emissary could also count as one but its neither in the point range (275pts compared to ~400pts normally for LoW) nor in the size range of the other models.
Other than those there are the Cerastus Knights but those are HH first and 40k second so I wouldn't count them here

 LunarSol wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Votann was released September 2022 with a promise of a 2nd wave... 10th starts in June 2023 and no sign of it yet... so I can assume it's either late end of 10th or start of 11th?

Kinda sucks.

I thought Votann got more stuff already beyond the KT. As new as they are I feel like they're pretty diverse and well supported. Haven't followed too closely though so I could be way off on that.

They got a Warhammer Day model, two Kill Team teams and I think they may have gotten a store birthday model, but I don't pay much attention to that, so that may not be accurate. No second wave yet, and probably only the pioneer Kill Team on foot as any meaningful addition to the army.

I don't know what GW may or may not have said about a second wave, but the things I see people immediately point to when glaring omissions in the lineup come up are jump troops like the single model in the first Kill Team and flyers. Plus maybe a Lord of War, though that doesn't seem to get brought up that often.

I think I thought the jump troop model was a unit.

Yeah not much for 40k I'm afraid... I think its easier to forget we have not had much added into a Wave2 when specialist games like kill team and to an extent Necromunda squats got so much.

 Matrindur wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:


he's been insistent on six man squads, it seems... won't be surprised if it turns out to be true

noise pistol sounds cool, and i'm glad the cool stuff is going to be in the bigger box (makes it easier to pick up for conversions, certainly)

Assuming the Noise Marines are 51,25€ for 3x as that is the price for the Eightbound/Deathshroud Bodyguard thats 205€ just in Noise Marines.
The EC Legionaries shouldn't be less than 55€ as the normal ones are that price so another 110€ on top.
Probably around 34€ for the HQ.

That would add up to 349€ without the Codex and cards so 422€ including them.
That is more than 100€ more than the Kroot and DA army sets had in them.
The only army set that is similar is the Blood Angels one but that is also heavily subsidized by 112€ of upgrade sprues and the fact its mostly old models.

If this turns out correct and its still 180€ like the BA set that would mean a 57% discount on completely new models for a completely new faction and I just can't see that.
If its instead 2x3 Noise Marines that would reduce the content to 319,5€ which is perfectly in line with the DA and Kroot sets and would mean a discount of 44% so still pretty great.

But I guess the EC Legionaries could be 50€ instead if they have less weapon options than the CSM Legionaries inside and the Noise Marines could be 45€ since they shouldn't be Terminator size like the other two examples above in which case the total would be 387€.
And if the army set makes another jump to 190€ that would bring it to 51% discount so still better than the other sets with completely new models.
And personally I find higher individual model prices and less models in the box more likely than lower individual prices, more models in the box and a slightly higher price for the army set.

Noise Marines could just be 37'50 for 6 like plague Marines are (for 7), would solve the whole thing.

 Matrindur wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

I don't know what GW may or may not have said about a second wave, but the things I see people immediately point to when glaring omissions in the lineup come up are jump troops like the single model in the first Kill Team and flyers. Plus maybe a Lord of War, though that doesn't seem to get brought up that often.

Lords of War on a whole are a very rare release (Though that classification is gone now of course)
I think the only ones released since the start of 8th have been Mortarion, Angron and the Monolith and Silent King for Necrons. I guess the Norn Emissary could also count as one but its neither in the point range (275pts compared to ~400pts normally for LoW) nor in the size range of the other models.
Other than those there are the Cerastus Knights but those are HH first and 40k second so I wouldn't count them here

Knight Castellan/Valiant too - plus the Chaos Knight range.

 Matrindur wrote:
Lords of War on a whole are a very rare release (Though that classification is gone now of course)

Like I know what kids are calling their giant robots these days. Get off my lawn!

It's mostly just something that comes up because Squats were said to have a characterful Epic army that GW could draw on for inspiration, which of course entails large war machines and stuff that couldn't be done at normal scale back in the day.

I assume that the new Queatoris weapon will be a second Avenger, so you can finally take the dual avenger combo like you can for traitors in 40k and Loyalists in Horus Heresy.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I assume that the new Queatoris weapon will be a second Avenger, so you can finally take the dual avenger combo like you can for traitors in 40k and Loyalists in Horus Heresy.

After not including them in the battle force box maybe GW will start selling the Avenger Gatling Cannon and Las-Impulsor sprues separately like the HH dreadnought and AT Titan weapons.
Hopefully Freeblades and Dreadblades get the option to build their own Knights with double weapons, otherwise I think the rule is going away because of GW’s all rule options in one box thinking.

 GaroRobe wrote:
I wonder if thats what the Red Gobbo is hinting at.

Snake= Fulgrim

Chaos Star

Purple paint

We can now add a loudspeaker to the list. And we have the following quote from the Grotmas article (https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/eiv2zqzc/the-2024-grotmas-calendar/)

Warhammer Community wrote:Check back on Warhammer Community every day of December to open a new door – and there might even be a surprise awaiting you on Christmas Day when it’s all done.

Hard not to think the traditional Christmas preview is Emprah's Kiddies this year.

The rumored Questoris Loyalist model with shield generator and new weapons could be GW's plastic take on the Styrix/Magaera, with a larger carapace shield generator replacing the tilting plate mounted one. Would let them double dip into HH with the kit.

Custodes, gather round...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/zbsjp7lt/grotmas-calendar-day-8-gifts-of-gold-and-death/

...and tomorrow Imperial and Chaos Knights are apparently inviting their mates. Hmmmmm....

I’m betting on Armiger/Wardog centered detachments. The Big Knights little friends.

Or something that lets Knights bring in 25-50% allies like Brood Brothers?

Something to fill in the gap between adding a single knight/trio of freeblades to another force and having just solo Knights.

Maybe bring back the Loyal 32?

 alextroy wrote:
I’m betting on Armiger/Wardog centered detachments. The Big Knights little friends.

Those are Knights too, though. And not really friends but subordinates or younger siblings.

Maybe it's some Adeptus Mechanicus and/or Guard units for IK and Cultists and/or Traitor Guard for CK.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I’m betting on Armiger/Wardog centered detachments. The Big Knights little friends.

Those are Knights too, though. And not really friends but subordinates or younger siblings.

Maybe it's some Adeptus Mechanicus and/or Guard units for IK and Cultists and/or Traitor Guard for CK.

I'd love this top to bottom.

I'm hoping it's a loyal 32 in Admech form.... tomorrow is not long to wait!

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I'm hoping it's a loyal 32 in Admech form.... tomorrow is not long to wait!

The absolute state of the faction(s)

Sunday Preview – A festive Made to Order

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I'm hoping it's a loyal 32 in Admech form.... tomorrow is not long to wait!

I've heard that the detachments will be IK & AdMech support, and CK & CSM support.

Edit: also the balance update is this week

 xttz wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I'm hoping it's a loyal 32 in Admech form.... tomorrow is not long to wait!

I've heard that the detachments will be IK & AdMech support, and CK & CSM support.

So thats how they "fix" Ad Mech. Feels like its 7th edition again when "include knights" was the answer to make any faction viable.
(I would love both of those lists by the way, I have lots of mechanicum themed knights and a decent force of AdMech guys I dont play with).

 Fayric wrote:

 xttz wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I'm hoping it's a loyal 32 in Admech form.... tomorrow is not long to wait!

I've heard that the detachments will be IK & AdMech support, and CK & CSM support.

So thats how they "fix" Ad Mech. Feels like its 7th edition again when "include knights" was the answer to make any faction viable.
(I would love both of those lists by the way, I have lots of mechanicum themed knights and a decent force of AdMech guys I dont play with).

It can also fix Knights thematically, so you don't see a bunch of 40k cops (arbites) running around with Knights... the idea of a squad of cops running with Knights seems dumb to me.

Well, I guess that Made To Order selection is better than an incomplete version of the 3rd ed. starter set...

Do we know how well those terminators scale compared to the latest kit?

Knights will probably end up with Dunlendings as their militia.

 Nevelon wrote:
Do we know how well those terminators scale compared to the latest kit?

Poorly.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Do we know how well those terminators scale compared to the latest kit?

Poorly.

Hrm. Oh well. Thanks.

Nice looking marines, but I’m skipping a lot of steps in the evolution in terminators and going for RT/2nd lead to modern sculpts. Of they won’t fit in at either end, that’s a pass from me.

SamusDrake wrote:
Knights will probably end up with Dunlendings as their militia.

That's not a bad idea for Questor Imperialis.

 Nevelon wrote:
Do we know how well those terminators scale compared to the latest kit?

Here we go

So actually not too bad at all.

 Olthannon wrote:
So actually not too bad at all.

Remember, the new Leviathan Terminators upper the scale AGAIN and are not pictured.

Leviathan Terminators are about half a head taller again than the Chaos Terminators.

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:
So actually not too bad at all.

Remember, the new Leviathan Terminators upper the scale AGAIN and are not pictured.

The ones labeled "New Indomitus Pattern" are the Leviathan Terminators.

Here's a direct comparison from Minicompare. The scale is just relative units, not mm or anything.
A little small but probably not that noticeable close up once painted due to the fancy bases - bearing in mind that this setup is probably going to be the worst size comparison you could do for them.

Add a 40mm washer or something under their base to boost them up another mm or so and they'd likely blend right in.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
The rumored Questoris Loyalist model with shield generator and new weapons could be GW's plastic take on the Styrix/Magaera, with a larger carapace shield generator replacing the tilting plate mounted one. Would let them double dip into HH with the kit.

Is there any truth to this, or is it still a nebulous rumor from the deep dark reaches of the dreams of a sleeping Eldar God?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
The rumored Questoris Loyalist model with shield generator and new weapons could be GW's plastic take on the Styrix/Magaera, with a larger carapace shield generator replacing the tilting plate mounted one. Would let them double dip into HH with the kit.

Is there any truth to this, or is it still a nebulous rumor from the deep dark reaches of the dreams of a sleeping Eldar God?

The part about it maybe being a reimagined version of the Styrix/Magaera is speculation but the actual rumour about a Loyalist Questoris with shield generator is from Valrak so pretty trustworthy. But it could still be wrong of course, for example previously his rumours was new Armigers for the Knight codex which he now found out is fake. I'm guessing this Questoris versions rumour comes from his reputable sources which contradicted the armiger rumour he got earlier from other sources and as such proved it as fake.

I've been trying to find the Kyrin Solaq model for a while, but there's no way I'm buying an overpriced bundle just for one model (although I'd be fine if it was just the chaplain and librarian included)

Curse you James Workshop

 GaroRobe wrote:
I've been trying to find the Kyrin Solaq model for a while, but there's no way I'm buying an overpriced bundle just for one model (although I'd be fine if it was just the chaplain and librarian included)

Curse you James Workshop

To be fair the command squad box (while dated at this point) is a really great kit full of neat bits.

Knight detachments are up.

Imperials get to bring Tech priests, manipulus and marshall alongside vanguard and rangers (same ally rules as chaos daemons far as percentages of points). The knights all heal 1 wound a turn and have strats to pass on bondsman abilities to the Skitarii.

Chaos get to bring Damned units in the same manner, and the Knights can sacrifice them to get the Dark Pacts abilities (sustained/lethal hits)

 Tastyfish wrote:
Chaos get to bring Damned units in the same manner, and the Knights can sacrifice them to get the Dark Pacts abilities (sustained/lethal hits)

...and I love it!

Plus, until something changes, you can still take Daemons, too. The only thing missing is the 'rotate shields' stratagem.

Interesting and sensible pairings.

My only gripe is I'd prefer they lean away from requiring multiple codices for armies. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing Knights and Mechanicus merged or some Mechanicus datasheets in the Knight codex I suppose. Honestly, I'd love to see Agents get a Mechanicus datasheet and be the place where the Freeblade datasheet is housed.

Huh, my prediction was right. Good to see, as those are nice thematic combinations.

 LunarSol wrote:
My only gripe is I'd prefer they lean away from requiring multiple codices for armies. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing Knights and Mechanicus merged or some Mechanicus datasheets in the Knight codex I suppose. Honestly, I'd love to see Agents get a Mechanicus datasheet and be the place where the Freeblade datasheet is housed.

Fair comment, wouldn't have sucked to reprint the datasheets.

The Knight Index had Noble Lance, Grotmas handed out its Mechanicus brother... now, will this detachment still be valid when the Codex comes out next year?

I think they said that these detachments are in for the whole edition?

SamusDrake wrote:
I think they said that these detachments are in for the whole edition?

Correct

Huh. That's good. I wanted to know before I added some little people to my Knight army...

I'll miss Mysterious Guardian though... No more deep striking Dominus :(

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
The Knight Index had Noble Lance, Grotmas handed out its Mechanicus brother... now, will this detachment still be valid when the Codex comes out next year?

According to GW, the Grotmas detachments are additions to the upcoming codexes. I'm betting that the upcoming Imperial & Chaos Knight codexes include other variations of these combined army detachments. Imperial Knights mixed with Space Marines, Imperial Guard, or Agents of the Imperium are easy options to imagine. Chaos Knights having one detachment per Chaos god (with 500 points of daemons) plus an undivided Chaos detachment makes total sense with Daemons being put into god specific codexes.

Allies going away for a majority of factions could also be a result of these strict combined detachments. There are many benefits to it in terms of balance for the game and allied models, which tend to be underpowered.

Is there already a thread about the Secret Level show? Because I need to geek out with someone else about how AWESOME that was.

O_O

I would watch that series in a heartbeat. That Tzeentchian sorcerer was terrifying.

 Scottywan82 wrote:
Is there already a thread about the Secret Level show? Because I need to geek out with someone else about how AWESOME that was.

O_O

I would watch that series in a heartbeat. That Tzeentchian sorcerer was terrifying.

Holy fething Omnissiah we truly need more 40k animation of that level!

I’ve made a post in the TV Thread down in Geek Media.

Just remember to pack your spoiler tags!

 Scottywan82 wrote:
Is there already a thread about the Secret Level show? Because I need to geek out with someone else about how AWESOME that was.

O_O

I would watch that series in a heartbeat. That Tzeentchian sorcerer was terrifying.

Just sent a text to a friend saying the exact same thing about that sorcerer!

I've no idea what to expect from a Librarium/book focused detachment for regular Astartes.

A return of the librarian dread? Something oddly specifically Tome Keepers?

I'm sure Blood Ravens players are grabbing their popcorn.

 BorderCountess wrote:
I'm sure Blood Ravens players are grabbing their popcorn.

I've noticed that all the armies you have are getting good detachments from grotmas and positive news all around...

Maybe there's something to this Tzeentch stuff....

 BorderCountess wrote:
I'm sure Blood Ravens players are grabbing their popcorn.

No, they're grabbing someone else's popcorn.

Do we think they'll preview EC before the year ends? Red Gobbo is teasing it, so I expect at least a model reveal, if not Fulgrim.

 GaroRobe wrote:
Do we think they'll preview EC before the year ends? Red Gobbo is teasing it, so I expect at least a model reveal, if not Fulgrim.

Rumor has it they're getting revealed on Christmas Day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:
I'm sure Blood Ravens players are grabbing their popcorn.

I've noticed that all the armies you have are getting good detachments from grotmas and positive news all around...

Maybe there's something to this Tzeentch stuff....

My collection:

Blood Ravens (which include 'borrowing' from Blood Angels and Dark Angels)
Custodes
Agents
CSM
Thousand Sons
Tzeentch Daemons
Chaos Knights
Dark Eldar
Necrons
Tyranids

So far, my only real disappointment is Tyranids due to having all of three Warriors models. I'm also apprehensive about the Thousand Sons one, since Magnus actually prefers to NOT be in his army's zone of control.

Overall, though, I don't think they've released an actually bad detachment yet.

Has anyone heard of these detachments are making it on to the app?

Andykp wrote:
Has anyone heard of these detachments are making it on to the app?

They will appear on the app, later.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Has anyone heard of these detachments are making it on to the app?

They will appear on the app, later.

Nice. Thanks.

Andykp wrote:
Has anyone heard of these detachments are making it on to the app?

GW has said it will be at some unspecified time in January. Also, it sounds like none of these will be appearing directly in a codex, so factions that don't currently have a book aren't getting shafted (yet).

 BorderCountess wrote:

My collection:

Blood Ravens (which include 'borrowing' from Blood Angels and Dark Angels)
Custodes
Agents
CSM
Thousand Sons
Tzeentch Daemons
Chaos Knights
Dark Eldar
Necrons
Tyranids

So far, my only real disappointment is Tyranids due to having all of three Warriors models. I'm also apprehensive about the Thousand Sons one, since Magnus actually prefers to NOT be in his army's zone of control.

Overall, though, I don't think they've released an actually bad detachment yet.

I just noticed that there are no accursed Tau in your collection. +25 points!

 GaroRobe wrote:
Do we think they'll preview EC before the year ends? Red Gobbo is teasing it, so I expect at least a model reveal, if not Fulgrim.

I’m hoping they reveal the rumoured army box, as that should come a bit earlier than the rest of the release. And then they can show Fulgrim and the rest early next year. But it might just be like one model.

Balance dataslate is up, some big changes in it for marines.

RIP, Armor of Contempt.

Also, my Chaos Knights really could have used all those Sisters changes a week ago...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
New Marines detachment is up, and I'm no longer certain I have enough Librarians for my Blood Ravens.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-us/articles/doxl2avk/the-ecstatic-epistle-immaculate-armaments-of-agony/

More EC goodies

i'm not sure i'm reading the new GSC rule, because this seems unilaterally worse than the previous rule. it's less random, yes, but i'm not seeing anything about gaining additional points during the game, so it seems like the points you start with are the points you have... which means that in a standard 2k game, if i bring back a 20-man blob, that's over half the points i have available. there's the one enhancement, but that's it. the army already sucks this edition, so why did they feel the need to nerf us

it genuinely feels like they forgot the second half of the rule where you would gain points during games


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GaroRobe wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-us/articles/doxl2avk/the-ecstatic-epistle-immaculate-armaments-of-agony/

More EC goodies

these are very cool, at least

Weird that the power sword doesn’t have that power field doohickey

Maybe it's not a power sword?

Could be a Charnabal Blade.

Loving the sonic weapons.

I like that the Blastmaster has an 8-pointed Chaos star as its volume knob.

Sonic weapons are looking very cool!

And yeah I'd say that doesn't look like a powersword right now - paint of course can make a huge difference but it looks like a regular blade with no adornments/powercell etc


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Asmodai wrote:
I like that the Blastmaster has an 8-pointed Chaos star as its volume knob.

I wonder if there were debates over going for 8 for chaos reference or 11

 Asmodai wrote:
I like that the Blastmaster has an 8-pointed Chaos star as its volume knob.

I'm kinda surprised it even has a volume knob. One would think you'd just crank that baby to 11 and then remove the knob.

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
the army already sucks this edition, so why did they feel the need to nerf us

GSC currently has the highest overall win rate. They've had a few dominating performances lately, though it tends to be when they roll well and the respawns.

 LunarSol wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
the army already sucks this edition, so why did they feel the need to nerf us

GSC currently has the highest overall win rate. They've had a few dominating performances lately, though it tends to be when they roll well and the respawns.

HUH. guess i haven't been following with recent news very much. still, i think this just feels bad. army rule has been getting less and less exciting throughout the edition...

Seriously now. 32 new updates to existing books. I'm just going to go ahead and say it - GW has completely lost the plot when it comes to authoring books. They should dump em all into a big burning can and stick to supplying the rules via the 40K app. Took about book/edition churn, this FAQ/balance churn is something else entirely. Not sure I could keeo up with this ish if I tried.

You end up getting 100+ PDF documents per year now, thats 300+ PDFs per an edition FFS! "Simplified, not simple" anyone?

 tauist wrote:
Seriously now. 32 new updates to existing books. I'm just going to go ahead and say it - GW has completely lost the plot when it comes to authoring books. They should dump em all into a big burning can and stick to supplying the rules via the 40K app. Took about book/edition churn, this FAQ/balance churn is something else entirely. Not sure I could keeo up with this ish if I tried.

You end up getting 100+ PDF documents per year now, thats 300+ PDFs per an edition FFS! "Simplified, not simple" anyone?

It's just... reality? I mean the other option is these things just aren't worth playing.

The real answer though is the app. You don't have to keep track of any of it. It's all kept up to date for you and works quite well. I mostly only care about the PDFs to see the changes when they happen. For actual gameplay the app handles all of it.

I doubt we'll ever know the rationale behind sonic weapons now having flamer-style fuel canisters...

Oh, I know what that is... they are tanks of saliva, so the guns don't get sore throats.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I doubt we'll ever know the rationale behind sonic weapons now having flamer-style fuel canisters...

I'm thinking it's more like the fuel cells on Hellblasters. It's not actually containing the projectile, just powering the device. Imagine them carrying giant boom-boxes that need their D-cell batteries changed often.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I doubt we'll ever know the rationale behind sonic weapons now having flamer-style fuel canisters...

Scream canisters obviously. There's a whole industry around refilling them.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Oh, I know what that is... they are tanks of saliva, so the guns don't get sore throats.

Maybe it’s jars of Vaseline? They line their throats so that their voices come out smoother. An old Elton John trick

I thought that they were ancillary bagpipe nozzles, for ULTIMATE sonic assault.

 LunarSol wrote:

It's just... reality? I mean the other option is these things just aren't worth playing.

Isn't the other option to not write rules that aren't worth writing?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

It's just... reality? I mean the other option is these things just aren't worth playing.

Isn't the other option to not write rules that aren't worth writing?

I don't have an issue with FAQs and Erratas.
GW might have a bit too many, but it's unrealistic to expect perfection out the gate, no matter how much playtesting and editing you do, and it's better to fix issues than let them fester.

That said, the lack of ease of use (and paying for the App and all the rules is not a good answer) is an issue.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I doubt we'll ever know the rationale behind sonic weapons now having flamer-style fuel canisters...

Scream canisters obviously. There's a whole industry around refilling them.

Spoiler:

Close. It's canned music necessitated by the design of the new sonic weapons. They're playback equipment, not instruments.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

It's just... reality? I mean the other option is these things just aren't worth playing.

Isn't the other option to not write rules that aren't worth writing?

I don't have an issue with FAQs and Erratas.
GW might have a bit too many, but it's unrealistic to expect perfection out the gate, no matter how much playtesting and editing you do, and it's better to fix issues than let them fester.

That said, the lack of ease of use (and paying for the App and all the rules is not a good answer) is an issue.

What if they wrote rules that were cool, thematic, and fun to play for each army and stopped chasing this competitive meta win-rate bullcrap that the community wasn't asking for?

 JNAProductions wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

It's just... reality? I mean the other option is these things just aren't worth playing.

Isn't the other option to not write rules that aren't worth writing?

I don't have an issue with FAQs and Erratas.
GW might have a bit too many, but it's unrealistic to expect perfection out the gate, no matter how much playtesting and editing you do, and it's better to fix issues than let them fester.

That said, the lack of ease of use (and paying for the App and all the rules is not a good answer) is an issue.

The app is free. You just have to pay for the codex which is.... irritating.

The actual free resources out here also do the updates for you.

And yes, the best answer is to be perfect in everything you do at all times. GW of today is no where near as bad about it as they used to be. These days the problems are far more a result of the disparity created by first order meta gaming and obvious prioritization issues from the game being too big. The.... wild incompetence of even 8th edition isn't nearly as prevalent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Prometheum5 wrote:

What if they wrote rules that were cool, thematic, and fun to play for each army and stopped chasing this competitive meta win-rate bullcrap that the community wasn't asking for?

Because cool and thematic stops being fun when you get shot off the table bottom of 1.

I'm not a stickler for balance, but I've played enough poorly balanced games to know that fun rules become miserable in the face of crushing efficiency.

so maybe keep a game longer than 3 years and instead of releasing a new one might solve that issue

release new game, take a year of playtesting, add, release balance updates that already screws over all not yet released but already finished books needing another big update to sort things out at the end
and release a new game again because the abomination created is beyond fixing

the situation that "needs" this is created by GW themselves and not a natural part of game development that cannot be avoided

 kodos wrote:
so maybe keep a game longer than 3 years and instead of releasing a new one might solve that issue

release new game, take a year of playtesting, add, release balance updates that already screws over all not yet released but already finished books needing another big update to sort things out at the end
and release a new game again because the abomination created is beyond fixing

the situation that "needs" this is created by GW themselves and not a natural part of game development that cannot be avoided

You'd have more errata because the community would keep evolving, but I am all for editions lasting longer. 3 years is stupid short.

So, no bolter-guitars then?

I note though, that the backs of thecweapons have some gubbinz that remind me of bagpipes - highly appropriate IMO

I'll happily stick to using books, I like books. I don't understand why people want everything online, have you learned nothing from Terminator? Don't give machines the power or skynet will get you. Failing that it'll be Musk and I'm not sure what's more evil.

I like books when the contents of the books arent changed every 3 months and the entire book isnt scrapped and replaced ebery 3 years.

Rulebooks used to have longevity, you used to buy them and get a decade of use out of them.

Now?

Sometimes you buy one and i ts invalid within 6 months, like the 9th ed AM codex or rise of angmar for MESBG.

GW desperately needs to learn what a change log is. There are some changes within the various Indexes that are so obscure they're practically invisible. Also, would it hurt them to arrange the Grotmas stuff by date? All the updates are scattered throughout the Recently Updated section in what appears to be random order.

The changes seem fine overall. Not a fan of increasing AP on a bunch of close combat weapons, even if they were bad. I feel like if you're going to make such sweeping changes you need to just commit to them fully. 40k's biggest problem is the ludicrous lethality of the game (and has been for a while). I'd prefer a general reduction in that lethality rather than trying to bring weapons like combat knives up to the same level as everyone else. Not that I think giving extra AP to Infernus marines and knives is going to break the game, it's just indicative of a game moving in the wrong direction, IMO.

Also, it's hilarious that GW finally re-introduced Universal Special Rules in 10th but botched it so badly they now have to go through a bunch of individual rules and call out the 3" DS and AoC changes in each one.

CHAOS BAGPIPES!!!!!!

chaos0xomega wrote:
I like books when the contents of the books arent changed every 3 months and the entire book isnt scrapped and replaced ebery 3 years.

Rulebooks used to have longevity, you used to buy them and get a decade of use out of them.

This!

I'd also add I love reference books when the information is presented logically and where you can quickly find stuff. Another area GW fails on these days is that info can be scattershot all around within a single book. Heck without the FOC it seems that GW just throws dataslates in anywhere. The tyranid one has no logical structure, not even just basic alphabetical order. IT's lots of little things like that which likely make them faster to make (because you can 100% see that the 3 year cycle takes a toll on the writers); but which makes them a LOT harder to use.

It actually creates a barrier of entry all on its own

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Asmodai wrote:
I like that the Blastmaster has an 8-pointed Chaos star as its volume knob.

I'm kinda surprised it even has a volume knob. One would think you'd just crank that baby to 11 and then remove the knob.

No doubt it starts at 11 and they crank it to 18

Slipspace wrote:

The changes seem fine overall. Not a fan of increasing AP on a bunch of close combat weapons, even if they were bad. I feel like if you're going to make such sweeping changes you need to just commit to them fully. 40k's biggest problem is the ludicrous lethality of the game (and has been for a while). I'd prefer a general reduction in that lethality rather than trying to bring weapons like combat knives up to the same level as everyone else. Not that I think giving extra AP to Infernus marines and knives is going to break the game, it's just indicative of a game moving in the wrong direction, IMO.

Agree for guns but I do believe melee should be extremely lethal.

After all you aren't going to be charging with your whole army in turn one. Most melee units will spend 2-3 turns moving before getting to charge. The corollary is that 1st turn charges shouldn't exist.

 Overread wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I like books when the contents of the books arent changed every 3 months and the entire book isnt scrapped and replaced ebery 3 years.

Rulebooks used to have longevity, you used to buy them and get a decade of use out of them.

This!

I'd also add I love reference books when the information is presented logically and where you can quickly find stuff. Another area GW fails on these days is that info can be scattershot all around within a single book. Heck without the FOC it seems that GW just throws dataslates in anywhere. The tyranid one has no logical structure, not even just basic alphabetical order. IT's lots of little things like that which likely make them faster to make (because you can 100% see that the 3 year cycle takes a toll on the writers); but which makes them a LOT harder to use.

It actually creates a barrier of entry all on its own

There's no order for a book that's more convenient than just filtering down to the models that are actually in your army. That's, theoretically what datacards are for, but pretty much every game system out there has learned that cards effectively as hard to update as books.

Honestly, I have never enjoyed playing out of a book. Way too much flipping around looking for stuff. It doesn't help that Deathwatch has at times, required up to 4.

Has anyone of you tried to keep a physical rulebook "up to date" with all the FAQs/erratas of 10th edition? I bet that book has more red pencil and postit notes on it than a 2nd hand school book

F this ish. I aint buying a single book for current 40K going forward

I will still buy the new IK codex when it comes out. I love the books.

 tauist wrote:
Has anyone of you tried to keep a physical rulebook "up to date" with all the FAQs/erratas of 10th edition? I bet that book has more red pencil and postit notes on it than a 2nd hand school book

F this ish. I aint buying a single book for current 40K going forward

Ha I remember in the early 2000s when GW provided replacement sections you were supposed to glue over the top of in the books, hours cutting out little squares of text to stick over paragraphs...

At least 10th is somehow getting it a little better.

9th, you can customise your own SM chapter while Chaos is Black Legion, a few missing Slannesh models, or nothing.

Drukhari has Lelith... with no way to play her....

 parakuribo wrote:


Drukhari has Lelith... with no way to play her....

What do you mean?

 parakuribo wrote:
At least 10th is somehow getting it a little better.

And as soon as 10th is feeling fairly polished whilst also grinding under a weight of welcome updates FAQ/Errata and expansion books instead of giving a nice 10.2 update with fresh books that include all the corrected info --- GW will instead throw it all out and start over again

i suspect 11th edition is going to be what 9th was for the 8th edition rules set. we're not going to see codexes invalidated so soon

I really hope so but I admit I didn't believe GW was going to be stupid enough to outright invalidate 9th ed codexes.

 Tyran wrote:
I really hope so but I admit I didn't believe GW was going to be stupid enough to outright invalidate 9th ed codexes.

I feel like GW is riding a fever train of edition releases and that at some point its going to break.

Either its going to break because GW has so many games out at once all updating so fast they HAVE to slow some down or end up with big releases so close they can't schedule them.
Or (and this is more likely to happen for 40K or AoS) the community ends up backlashing in a big way. Ergo not just grumpy people online but a proper backlash.

I think they ALMOST had one with AoS when they stripped not just books but models in one big go. I do wonder if it might cause Gw to rethink making stormcast the marines of AoS in marketing and perhaps consider that maybe they could put a different army in the next big boxed set.

Right now they are still on a big high; but at some point I think something has to give out and change course. It just doesn't feel like a sustainable game model to me. Even accepting that GW's balance and rule writing has always been a bit moreon the casual side

I feel like the long term plan is to grow the audience of the secondary games so that they can cut back on release pace for 40k/aos and spread out editions across more product lines

chaos0xomega wrote:
I feel like the long term plan is to grow the audience of the secondary games so that they can cut back on release pace for 40k/aos and spread out editions across more product lines

I'd like that to be the plan but I don't quite see it. The Website alone basically hides a chunk of the specialist games. Only HH and Old World have direct front page links; the rest are hidden behind two menu clicks so you've got to know they are there to find them.

I do honestly think GW today realises that a healthy broad spectrum of games is good for them and us so I think that most of the core specialist games are "here to stay".

But GW is also doing a LOT of random heroes; random promotional models; one offs and such alongside all this. On the one hand they can't keep some stuff in stock; on the other they are pushing out one-off stuff a lot more so.


I think there's not one plan but several and I suspect its more a case of inter-departmental competition going on

 Hellebore wrote:
Ha I remember in the early 2000s when GW provided replacement sections you were supposed to glue over the top of in the books, hours cutting out little squares of text to stick over paragraphs...

My (first) copy of 6th edition WHFB has stuck together pages because of this. (I probably shouldn't have used Clag glue, that smooshes out when close the book.)

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

It's just... reality? I mean the other option is these things just aren't worth playing.

Isn't the other option to not write rules that aren't worth writing?

I don't have an issue with FAQs and Erratas.
GW might have a bit too many, but it's unrealistic to expect perfection out the gate, no matter how much playtesting and editing you do, and it's better to fix issues than let them fester.

That said, the lack of ease of use (and paying for the App and all the rules is not a good answer) is an issue.

What if they wrote rules that were cool, thematic, and fun to play for each army and stopped chasing this competitive meta win-rate bullcrap that the community wasn't asking for?

What, and be like other games???

ccs wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

It's just... reality? I mean the other option is these things just aren't worth playing.

Isn't the other option to not write rules that aren't worth writing?

I don't have an issue with FAQs and Erratas.
GW might have a bit too many, but it's unrealistic to expect perfection out the gate, no matter how much playtesting and editing you do, and it's better to fix issues than let them fester.

That said, the lack of ease of use (and paying for the App and all the rules is not a good answer) is an issue.

What if they wrote rules that were cool, thematic, and fun to play for each army and stopped chasing this competitive meta win-rate bullcrap that the community wasn't asking for?

What, and be like other games???

Quite a lot of the GW community do ask for that. Every detachment, codex, unit or model that's released is immediately graded on how "good" it is on practically every media outlet, including this one.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I doubt we'll ever know the rationale behind sonic weapons now having flamer-style fuel canisters...

I guess the "serious" answer might be "pheromones".

Dudeface wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

It's just... reality? I mean the other option is these things just aren't worth playing.

Isn't the other option to not write rules that aren't worth writing?

I don't have an issue with FAQs and Erratas.
GW might have a bit too many, but it's unrealistic to expect perfection out the gate, no matter how much playtesting and editing you do, and it's better to fix issues than let them fester.

That said, the lack of ease of use (and paying for the App and all the rules is not a good answer) is an issue.

What if they wrote rules that were cool, thematic, and fun to play for each army and stopped chasing this competitive meta win-rate bullcrap that the community wasn't asking for?

What, and be like other games???

Quite a lot of the GW community do ask for that. Every detachment, codex, unit or model that's released is immediately graded on how "good" it is on practically every media outlet, including this one.

Suggest a bit of caution here - The internet, particularly forums for specialist interests, isn’t and has never been a good barometer of wider opinion. They are, almost by their very design, set up to represent a vocal minority.
That, plus the fact that the motivations for trend chasing and endless commentary on hobby sites these days is usually motivated by generating clicks rather than because there is genuine interest and passion for the subject matter

Roll Three Dice wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

It's just... reality? I mean the other option is these things just aren't worth playing.

Isn't the other option to not write rules that aren't worth writing?

I don't have an issue with FAQs and Erratas.
GW might have a bit too many, but it's unrealistic to expect perfection out the gate, no matter how much playtesting and editing you do, and it's better to fix issues than let them fester.

That said, the lack of ease of use (and paying for the App and all the rules is not a good answer) is an issue.

What if they wrote rules that were cool, thematic, and fun to play for each army and stopped chasing this competitive meta win-rate bullcrap that the community wasn't asking for?

What, and be like other games???

Quite a lot of the GW community do ask for that. Every detachment, codex, unit or model that's released is immediately graded on how "good" it is on practically every media outlet, including this one.

Suggest a bit of caution here - The internet, particularly forums for specialist interests, isn’t and has never been a good barometer of wider opinion. They are, almost by their very design, set up to represent a vocal minority.
That, plus the fact that the motivations for trend chasing and endless commentary on hobby sites these days is usually motivated by generating clicks rather than because there is genuine interest and passion for the subject matter

Whilst that's true, it's also what's presented and shoved down peoples throats most commonly, so you could argue has the wider appeal, or they'd be presenting more narrative content.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I doubt we'll ever know the rationale behind sonic weapons now having flamer-style fuel canisters...

It looks weird, considering that style of canister is a visual signifier for flamer fuel, among several model lines in the game.

However I -am- actuslly assuming it’s a gas canister of some similar sort. Loud, portable, horns are usually driven by gas, after all.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Rulebooks used to have longevity, you used to buy them and get a decade of use out of them.

If we're talking GW games, when has this ever really been the case?

Longest would be 3rd Ed, at 6 years if memory serves.

Rogue Trader doesn’t count, because supplements changed fundamental parts of the game.

If you were (un)lucky a codex might span a couple of editions, but would have a bit of FAQ/errata at that point. Even for the old days when GW didn’t do much of that, they gave enough for the out of date books to limp along until replaced.

Ten years or more is an outlier for GW. It happened for Dark Eldar whose 3rd ed codex was replaced in 5th ed after twelve years (and a White Dwarf update to the 3rd ed codex that turned into a second printing). The 3rd ed Space Wolves supplement was also in use until it got replaced by the Space Wolves codex in 5th ed, which I think was only slightly shorter than Dark Eldar.

Not quite so sure about the dates in Fantasy, but Tomb Kings I think were 2002 for 6th ed, skipped 7th ed and got replaced sometime in the first half of 8th ed. Bretonnia might hold the record for a main game because its 6th ed book was never replaced.

More often than not, you're looking at a release every other edition at the latest with at most two documents that adapted an old codex to a new edition. And more often than not, people weren't ecstatic about getting ten years of use out of their codex because rules maintenance hasn't been GW's forte and overwhelmingly new miniatures were tied to a new codex release. That said, the current approach and frequency of changes is also far from ideal. At least for the customer.

three year edition cycles have been a thing since like 5th edition. the only reason people are causing noise about it now is because the perception with 10th edition that every new edition will invalidate codexes (when that's something they've only done three times ever)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bile detachment is fun, btw. silly stuff, because the more powerful version is the one where it's more random. we need more stuff like that

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
three year edition cycles have been a thing since like 5th edition. the only reason people are causing noise about it now is because the perception with 10th edition that every new edition will invalidate codexes (when that's something they've only done three times ever)

7th ed 40k was the first edition to use the now familiar and stable three year cycle. That was in 2014, on the heels of 6th ed that only lasted 23 months (which was and still is an outlier).

People have complained about the three year cycle since it was established, not because of dissatisfaction with the rules as that is a separate issue, but because it's a terrible release model for a game that requires a large number of models that take time to build and, ideally, paint. 10th ed, for all the controversy about it, is not special in that regard. It is however the first edition since 8th ed which invalidated codices. And 8th ed is an edition which brought in a lot of new players. It's the first time that those players see it happen. 8th ed is also the edition in which a fair few people who got disillusioned in 6th ed and 7th ed placed their hopes for a better handling of the game.

It's no surprise to hear more complaints now than in the years before. It's the inevitable consequence of GW's business practices.

On the three year cycle? I wonder if it’s more the implementation.

For instance, a three year, republished with all errata and FAQ folded in, rulebook isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

But, with 40K? GW has done extensive changes to base rules, army selection etc. That I’m not terribly fond of.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On the three year cycle? I wonder if it’s more the implementation.

For instance, a three year, republished with all errata and FAQ folded in, rulebook isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

But, with 40K? GW has done extensive changes to base rules, army selection etc. That I’m not terribly fond of.

It’s the churn for the sake of churn. They don’t incrementally improve things, they pound the reset button every 3 years to make you re-buy everything.

If it was just a clean copy with everything rolled in, there would be a LOT less hate for it. And maybe better balance, as they are not starting from scratch every cycle.

But presumably someone at GW has run the numbers and decided this was the best business plan…

I don't have a dog in the rules discussion, but I do have a theory on the sonic weapon tanks - I reckon they are full of promethium, but only for pyrotechnic purposes. I'm imagining the full Rammstein experience with every blast

This reminds me of the comic book world, where DC and Marvel hit the cosmic reset button to draw in new fans.

The main purpose of it is just to keep momentum. Social media has everyone chasing the new thing and people just get bored after a year or two. A consistent errata schedule helps with retention, but starts to turn off players that don't want to keep up with it, causing the game to only appeal to dedicated players.

New editions just make people feel like its new again. It gets everyone's attention and brings all the lapsed players back to try again. It's definitely not for the benefit of the rules themselves, but having seen how quick people are to declare a game "dead" without a major overhaul even after 5 years, I can't say GW is in the wrong about it.

The sonic-looking pistol is a new thing, isn't it? I remember the sonic blaster and the blastmaster - as well as the Doom Siren - but I don't recall a sonic pistol before.

 Dysartes wrote:
The sonic-looking pistol is a new thing, isn't it? I remember the sonic blaster and the blastmaster - as well as the Doom Siren - but I don't recall a sonic pistol before.

I know George Clinton of P-funk had a Bop-gun in the 70s, but yeah, dont think Noice marines had a hand gun before.

 Dark Apostle 666 wrote:
I don't have a dog in the rules discussion, but I do have a theory on the sonic weapon tanks - I reckon they are full of promethium, but only for pyrotechnic purposes. I'm imagining the full Rammstein experience with every blast

That or to just make explosions for the guns to amplify. Big booms are nothing but supersonic pressure waves after all.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Dark Apostle 666 wrote:
I don't have a dog in the rules discussion, but I do have a theory on the sonic weapon tanks - I reckon they are full of promethium, but only for pyrotechnic purposes. I'm imagining the full Rammstein experience with every blast

That or to just make explosions for the guns to amplify. Big booms are nothing but supersonic pressure waves after all.

If that is the idea, it's cool and I approve. Although a shame the Kakophoni lack them

Yes sir, I like it!

Nevelon wrote:It’s the churn for the sake of churn. They don’t incrementally improve things, they pound the reset button every 3 years to make you re-buy everything.

Lathe Biosas wrote:This reminds me of the comic book world, where DC and Marvel hit the cosmic reset button to draw in new fans.

Sadly, it reminds me of the sales model of printer cartridges.

One for Eldar, one for Dark Eldar - interesting.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/2c53mlkj/grotmas-calendar-day-13-santas-larger-angrier-helpers/

Many of these new detachments have looked super fun, and the Reaper's Wager is no different. I love the feel of so many of these! This is what the game needs more of.

reaper's wager is the sort of thing that makes me want to start a Drukhari army. that sounds like a lot of fun

Not the direction I expected the Asuryani detachment to go.

These new detachments are so different from everything else in 10th that I've got to wonder if person writing them is drunk? If so next round is on me because we need to keep them that way, the flavour of the game is actually back! Please keep it coming.
Next codices have a lot to live up to.

These detachments seem like fun... and that's what's been missing lately.

Everything else has that mother ing META/Tournament feel that turns me off from looking at itm

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Everything else has that mother ing META/Tournament feel that turns me off from looking at itm

The amount of upset caused by "people playing the game to win" is so comically over the top, so utterly insane and riddled with seething bitterness, that it never gets old to read. I wonder if the ultra-casual people will ever get over this absurd chip on their shoulder - they probably won't.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Everything else has that mother ing META/Tournament feel that turns me off from looking at itm

The amount of upset caused by "people playing the game to win" is so comically over the top, so utterly insane and riddled with seething bitterness, that it never gets old to read. I wonder if the ultra-casual people will ever get over this absurd chip on their shoulder - they probably won't.

I used the ork emoji as an attempt at sarcasm.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Everything else has that mother ing META/Tournament feel that turns me off from looking at itm

The amount of upset caused by "people playing the game to win" is so comically over the top, so utterly insane and riddled with seething bitterness, that it never gets old to read. I wonder if the ultra-casual people will ever get over this absurd chip on their shoulder - they probably won't.

Believe it or not, some of us ARE actually more interested in having fun than trying to win. I know people that just aren't fun to play against because even in a non-tournament setting they just seek out the most busted wombo-combos.

 BorderCountess wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Everything else has that mother ing META/Tournament feel that turns me off from looking at itm

The amount of upset caused by "people playing the game to win" is so comically over the top, so utterly insane and riddled with seething bitterness, that it never gets old to read. I wonder if the ultra-casual people will ever get over this absurd chip on their shoulder - they probably won't.

Believe it or not, some of us ARE actually more interested in having fun than trying to win. I know people that just aren't fun to play against because even in a non-tournament setting they just seek out the most busted wombo-combos.

What if people have fun by trying to win, and or bringing "busted wombo-combos"?

People have this tendency to, in an exceedingly vulgar manner, just say "The game is about having fun" - but this comment is a completely empty one. Some people have fun playing the game in certain ways. Casuals do not have a monopoly on what is and what is not fun.

This is where the pre-game conversation comes in, to try to prevent a clash of expectations.

In an ideal world, some games they dial it back a bit, and some games you dial it up a bit - equally, if you MUST WIN, there are these events where you can play with like-minded individuals, so you shouldn't need to bring that mentality to every game.

 Dysartes wrote:
This is where the pre-game conversation comes in, to try to prevent a clash of expectations.

Exactly, so imo, the casuals who seethe and gnash at teeth at the people who enjoy competitive, tight games, should instead consider learning these vital communication skills.

But even then, I'll say this now; I play to win. I do not pull punches. My regular opponents know this, and they can adjust their games around me as they see fit. My joy comes from building tight, powerful lists. I am sure someone will pipe up to say, "But that's the wrong way to play!", but if I'm having fun, how can it be wrong? You may now be able to see why this exceedingly generalised way of trying to chide competitive people with the oft quoted "the aim of the game is fun" crumbles the moment even slight pressure is applied (the next empty statement someone will pull out is but what about the spirit of the game?).

It is nice that Lathe Biosas added an ammendum of sarcasm, but it is undeniable fact there's an exceeding number of posts with the exact same tone which are made in full seriousness. "The game is about fun! Unless it's fun which doesn't fall into my very narrow definition of it..."

maybe, just maybe it would be an idea if casual players who want to have fun playing the game and not just win or lose, should look for games that actually can give that experience and not just play a game because it is the most popular tournament game out there

A looong time ago, lost in the mists of time (somewhere around 3rd or 4th edition) I had an evil army that no one enjoyed playing against.

(And my sole claim to fame was being immortalized in a TSoaLR webcomic)

It was a telephone pole armored company, where my basilisks were troops choices and my HQ was Lord Solar Macharius, who had only one rule I cared about... I go first.

It was a tournament army that my opponents hated, because no one enjoys pie plates on turn 1. And they used to give me low sportsmanship scores, because they disliked my army so much.

That honestly ticked me off. In a tournament there isn't really room for "casual" builds.

But my friends never really played against that list, unless I was tweaking it for a tournament.

They mainly played against my Gouldar. My bright yellow and Blue Iyanden Wraith army.

Which, looking back, these two armies are what led me down the path to Custodes and Knights (and now 21 Mechanicus allies)

 kodos wrote:
maybe, just maybe it would be an idea if casual players who want to have fun playing the game and not just win or lose, should look for games that actually can give that experience and not just play a game because it is the most popular tournament game out there

You mean like……40K? Because it’s been a narrative driven game long before tournaments for it existed.

The good thing? Nobody is doing it wrong.

But, when someone is trying to impose their preferred style of play? That’s when problems occur. Such as demanding every opponent adopt whatever tournament rules you’re used to, and/or demanding every game is tournament practice.

Bit of give and take? It’s all good.

Maybe we could keep the discussion related to 40k news and rumors instead of talking about whether or not casual play is the only way to have fun with the game. That kind of thing kind of needs its own thread.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Maybe we could keep the discussion related to 40k news and rumors instead of talking about whether or not casual play is the only way to have fun with the game. That kind of thing kind of needs its own thread.

You're right we did kinda skew the thread.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 kodos wrote:
maybe, just maybe it would be an idea if casual players who want to have fun playing the game and not just win or lose, should look for games that actually can give that experience and not just play a game because it is the most popular tournament game out there

You mean like……40K? Because it’s been a narrative driven game long before tournaments for it existed.

for example, just play 3rd Edition with 4th Edition Codices
not like there are 4 different games around with the same name, people just play all 1 version because it is the most popular one at tournaments and aren't happy with it but instead playing a different game it is the others players fault that they are not happy

Relative to most of GW's wacky prices, the Space Marine Heroes Terminators actually look almost reasonable.

Next to the Command Squad they look like a bargain

I'm really curious about the Heroes Terminators as a MTO, since those are not normal GW sprues. We've seen other round-sprue no-clipper models from GW recently, so it seems like they've taken that manufacturing in house, whereas I thought the Space Marine Heroes models were originally manufactured by MegaHouse? Not sure we've got a clear lineage there...

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Relative to most of GW's wacky prices, the Space Marine Heroes Terminators actually look almost reasonable.

Next to the Command Squad they look like a bargain

The terminators were a nice surprise, but the three characters really bloat the price of the command squad.

Santtu wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Relative to most of GW's wacky prices, the Space Marine Heroes Terminators actually look almost reasonable.

Next to the Command Squad they look like a bargain

The terminators were a nice surprise, but the three characters really bloat the price of the command squad.

Exactly, its the ancient command squad +captain +chaplain +librarian, and rather cool characters. Considering prises for single charcters these days...
Im mostly confused because i thought they removed these models juat a few months ago?

 Fayric wrote:

Santtu wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Relative to most of GW's wacky prices, the Space Marine Heroes Terminators actually look almost reasonable.

Next to the Command Squad they look like a bargain

The terminators were a nice surprise, but the three characters really bloat the price of the command squad.

Exactly, its the ancient command squad +captain +chaplain +librarian, and rather cool characters. Considering prises for single charcters these days...
Im mostly confused because i thought they removed these models juat a few months ago?

I think they did that kind of stuff a couple of times lately. IIRC ork characters were thrown out of the codex only to feature in a mto shortly after. In general not the worst approach to catch people that always had those miniatures on their list but just missed the point when they went oop. Personally hoping they'll do that with some of the Middleearth stuff they just took out of the game...

Basilicanum / Sanctum MTO will be popular https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/lv57psru/sunday-preview-build-a-massive-battlefield-with-made-to-order-terrain/ Also looks like contents reveal for the Salamanders / IW 30k box, Leviathans + special / assault weapons sprues.

Hello AdMech Knight basing materials!

That objectives set is a must-have and has been for a while! Scalpers asking mad money for those..

Is the one bit a Medicae unit BTW? I dont think Darktide was out when these were made..

JWBS wrote:
Also looks like contents reveal for the Salamanders / IW 30k box, Leviathans + special / assault weapons sprues.

If you're referring to the Salamanders art in the video, that's older artwork from 2023 + those melee weapons are from the now defunct resin despoiler upgrade set.

 tauist wrote:
That objectives set is a must-have and has been for a while! Scalpers asking mad money for those..

Is the one bit a Medicae unit BTW? I dont think Darktide was out when these were made..

Yep, it's the reason why Healthcare is so good in the 41st millennium.

Awesome. This must be the best objective set made for the game so far. These will all work super well in Kill Team as well

 tauist wrote:
Awesome. This must be the best objective set made for the game so far. These will all work super well in Kill Team as well

I like this one, and I like the medicae on a stick, but I think it was the Urban Conquest box that did a medicae version where the servitor was on treads... Which is WAY cooler, since he can actually move.

 PenitentJake wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Awesome. This must be the best objective set made for the game so far. These will all work super well in Kill Team as well

I like this one, and I like the medicae on a stick, but I think it was the Urban Conquest box that did a medicae version where the servitor was on treads... Which is WAY cooler, since he can actually move.

Though they are tracks that don't hold up to close examination. Not much detail on 'em.

Warhammer 40,000 Battlefield Trophies – Festoon your bases with your vanquished foes

oh, i love this. i picked up the skulls kit a while ago, and have continued to see frequent use of what i got from that. i'll need to get my hands on this, no question

the servo-skulls and medical arms could be fun for some kitbashing, too

Really like this, especially the damaged helms with skulls inside.

A couple more of the broken bodies for other races would have been nice.

Looks like no Necron heads though but I at least have a load to spare from my two warriors kits.

Some of these are neat, but cannot help thinking many of these could be achieved by bitz shopping around and applying a bit of battle damage to the bits.. If this is priced absurdly (like I think it will be), its a pass from me

 tauist wrote:
Some of these are neat, but cannot help thinking many of these could be achieved by bitz shopping around and applying a bit of battle damage to the bits.. If this is priced absurdly (like I think it will be), its a pass from me

The price for the skullz Set was okay, competitive even compared to any resin offerings from other manufacturers. And I assume/ hope these will be similar.

This will be amazing for basing.... I love all the servo skulls.

I assume the Necrons still phase out leaving no trophies.

Now that I think about it, there is one thing where all these skulls will come in handy - Detailing a Realm Of Battle gameboard. There's enough of various factions represented so that the end result will give the appearance of a theatre of battle which has seen several wars, against various enemies..

Still, if this will cost more than, say 25€, its going to be a salty sale

I hope that they're not planning on replacing the current skulls set.

Lathe Biosas wrote:This will be amazing for basing.... I love all the servo skulls.

I assume the Necrons still phase out leaving no trophies.

They have their own box of damaged robots - the warrior kit.

Lord Damocles wrote:I hope that they're not planning on replacing the current skulls set.

Who knows, the kit is 7 years old. But the new one is far more 40k-heavy so there should be a Fantasy/AoS equivalent. Of course I prefer both kits being available - I mean skulls are essential for GW games so the more the better.

Just a small Valrak rumour update:

This is a rumours and predictions video so take it with more salt than usual

Mostly just reiterates previous rumours but here are the new things:
Space Wolves are apparently no longer happening in Summer but instead at the end of the year. But he isn't clear if that is a change his source told him or if he is just covering his bases in case it doesn't happen in summer like his rumour said.
He heard more stuff for generic SM is coming and speculates it will be a fast attack wave this time. Also Assault Terminators should be coming sometime next year.
Also more stuff coming for the non main chapters so IF, RG, IH and so on.
He heard about a Daemon release and since they won't have a codex on their own anymore he speculates it will be a WE or DG unit (TS have those robot rumours instead)

Two pictures above have a total of 93+91=184 basing elements but the article says 288.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I hope that they're not planning on replacing the current skulls set.

Me too. This new set looks great, but the current set is invaluable - I've gone through 3 of them already, basing my HH Marines and my WH40k Orks. I can see a few damaged skulls that seem to duplicate the existing versions, which suggests the new set might be a replacement, but I think it's just going to be a WH40k-specific version.

jullevi wrote:
Two pictures above have a total of 93+91=184 basing elements but the article says 288.

Some are probably duplicated 2 or more times and not shown as duplicates.

 Matrindur wrote:
Just a small Valrak rumour update:

This is a rumours and predictions video so take it with more salt than usual

Mostly just reiterates previous rumours but here are the new things:
Space Wolves are apparently no longer happening in Summer but instead at the end of the year. But he isn't clear if that is a change his source told him or if he is just covering his bases in case it doesn't happen in summer like his rumour said.
He heard more stuff for generic SM is coming and speculates it will be a fast attack wave this time. Also Assault Terminators should be coming sometime next year.
Also more stuff coming for the non main chapters so IF, RG, IH and so on.
He heard about a Daemon release and since they won't have a codex on their own anymore he speculates it will be a WE or DG unit (TS have those robot rumours instead)

the original space wolves rumor was for the end of the edition, so hearing end of the year isn't a surprise, especially if we get an arks of omen-style campaign again. throw the wolves out there with the campaign and use that to reintroduce another primarch

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:


the original space wolves rumor was for the end of the edition, so hearing end of the year isn't a surprise, especially if we get an arks of omen-style campaign again. throw the wolves out there with the campaign and use that to reintroduce another primarch

Fulgrim?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:


the original space wolves rumor was for the end of the edition, so hearing end of the year isn't a surprise, especially if we get an arks of omen-style campaign again. throw the wolves out there with the campaign and use that to reintroduce another primarch

Fulgrim?

Fulgrim would be coming with the EC in spring so no.

The SW wave should be coming with their codex and not the end of edition campaign but we might see Leman Russ during that campaign as he wasn't part of the codex rumours. They might also split up the SW wave in that case with refreshes of units and characters releasing for the codex wave while anything new releasing with LR during the end campaign

Assault Terminators in the new scale, yes please!

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

jullevi wrote:
Two pictures above have a total of 93+91=184 basing elements but the article says 288.

Some are probably duplicated 2 or more times and not shown as duplicates.

I believe the article mentions that the set includes some surprises that they don’t want to reveal quite yet so wouldn’t be shocked if there is an EC head or two on the sprue.

Maybe some of the bits are multipart and they're counting up parts?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Maybe some of the bits are multipart and they're counting up parts?

Could actually be the case. After all they say 288 base-topper bits so if the guard helmets are separate from their skulls for example you could use them on their own too and as such can count as two bits for GW.
But still wouldn't really add 104 more bits in any way.
In the end its likely a mixture of all possibilities. Some count double like this and then there are some that are simply included multiple times and then there are some bits they haven't shown like EC and maybe Drukhari helmets.

 Matrindur wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Maybe some of the bits are multipart and they're counting up parts?

Could actually be the case. After all they say 288 base-topper bits so if the guard helmets are separate from their skulls for example you could use them on their own too and as such can count as two bits for GW.
But still wouldn't really add 104 more bits in any way.
In the end its likely a mixture of all possibilities. Some count double like this and then there are some that are simply included multiple times and then there are some bits they haven't shown like EC and maybe Drukhari helmets.

I thought it was lacking Dark Eldar. I also didn't see any Squats.

I was totally lukewarm on this kit until I saw it has servo-skulls. I'm definitely going to need one.

 BorderCountess wrote:
I thought it was lacking Dark Eldar. I also didn't see any Squats.

Votann and Necrons make sense that they are missing. Necrons because they phase out (though the indomitus captain does have a destroyed necron on his base) and Votann because of their size and the fact they don't realy have helmets, they just have a dome on top of their armour.

He’s here

 GaroRobe wrote:
He’s here

I like the HH version way better but that was expected but even without that version I'm not really impressed. The wings feel too small the hair doesn't really fit my image of Fulgrim (Even after being in the warp for so long) and the snake part looks more like a costume pulled over his body than an actual snake body. Overall he is still fine but not in the same ballpark as the other primarchs have been for me. Of course all of this is subjective and other people will love him but at least for me its a bit disappointing

The head and wings I feel were better on the Transfigured version. The arms and lower body look better on this version.

Overall, I'd still give it to the Horus Heresy version, but it was a really high bar to clear, and it this one missed it in overall execution, it was by a sliver.

I also finally have the perfect head for my Azazel project.

I really like it, but I do agree that the FW one is better. I think I'd be blown away by this if the FW didn't exist though. And he will be a lot less fragile to actually play with...

He’s fab!

Very pleased with this figure. Not a huge fan of the unmasked faces - Fulgrim is supposed to be Vitruvian Man - beautiful even in his Daemonic Incarnation, but thankfully the mask option is really fantastic.

Urgh I'm going to have to spend a load on Emperor's Children, aren't I???

Love it! I cannot wait to see the kits for the noise marines and the rest.

I think it's a great model. I like what they did with the face versus the FW version. Gives him an image of an aging Hollywood starlet filled with botox to desperately cover up all the drug abuse. The warp takes its toll..

Crispy78 wrote:
Urgh I'm going to have to spend a load on Emperor's Children, aren't I???

I mean, you could, but it's probably not the best primer? Maybe just use paint instead?

Although it is in the Slaaneshi spirit, I suppose....:-)

As wonderful as the Keeper of Secrets, with the helmet option being the icing on the cake.

I would go in for Emperor's Children but only for Legions Imperialis, if that had a model for Fulgrim Transfigured.

Heads and wings are a let down of tremendous proportion on this figure. FW version's face is in another league.

It is impossible not to compare the model to the HH one and being in resin the HH one sets an impossible to beat aesthetically but is impossible to transport and a bugger to play with.

This will be transportable, magnetisable, playable.

I think this is about as close to perfection that GW has achieved with plastic.

Everyone will have a couple of small gripes, such as the faces (a beautiful, natural one would have been better than the chubby one) the wings being about 5-10% too small and maybe the hair.

This will set a very high bar to beat for model of the year for 2025….

 The Phazer wrote:
I really like it, but I do agree that the FW one is better. I think I'd be blown away by this if the FW didn't exist though. And he will be a lot less fragile to actually play with...

Whether I agree that the FW sculpt is better or not, (it is), this is the better model, by virtue of being half price and plastic.

The FW version is $345 CAD, which makes the product garbage, no matter how good it looks.

Lets see if this is really half that

 PenitentJake wrote:

 The Phazer wrote:
I really like it, but I do agree that the FW one is better. I think I'd be blown away by this if the FW didn't exist though. And he will be a lot less fragile to actually play with...

Whether I agree that the FW sculpt is better or not, (it is), this is the better model, by virtue of being half price and plastic.

The FW version is $345 CAD, which makes the product garbage, no matter how good it looks.

I mean, this is the centerpiece of your army, you'll only get one... So might as well take the good looking one instead of the half-priced Version that looks bad. Or, if we're at it, if you're looking to go cheap on your centerpiece, might as well look outside of the GW bubble.

I dunno, I think both look ace. Even if the plastic face options aren't anything special, theres the option for a helmet.

Plus, we all know Fulgrim is bound to be bundled into a christmas boxset next year, so he'll *technically* be even more affordable

We need a hood shot of the Gw and FW versions next to one another. I feel the GW model has a lot of potential, really don’t like the head though.

Don't play Chaos, but this is definitely a good sign for all the Emperor’s Children fans that GW is putting in some hard work on their line.

Saying that the FW sculpt looks better is NOT saying the GW sculpt is bad.

Honestly?

If someone bought the resin Fulgrim for me, I'd probably smash it into a thousand pieces in rage after my 27th hour of trying to hold the wings in position long enough for the glue to set.

With plastic, those wings will weld into place 5 seconds after surfaces touch.

Nice birthing hips on that one mmm

Exelent model. Delivers what was expected and dont mess anything up in my opinion. That hideous helmet look silly for a daemon primarch, but apparently some people already prefer it, so its all good.
Wings have a cool structure to them.

joining the chorus to say, fantastic model. doesn't feel too distinct from the FW one (wings being less wide is appreciated as someone who has to care about storage...), so it really just feels like another fantastic take on the same idea

the masked face in particular is great. definitely the one i'll be using

Fantastic looking model and yes I also appreciate the wings being more practical for gaming - the FW version looks stunning but its well into the "handle with super careful gloves" cause of those awesome wings


Very hyped for Slaanesh in 2025

Eh. Was hoping for something a bit more serene looking. That gave off an arrogant air of being best on the field and he knows it. "Come at me bro" pose is dull.

The HH one was a masterpiece so it was always going to be tough to beat it. I think this model comes very close and is well designed, and will be an excellent centerpiece.
No faults from me with the design.

Whilst I fully expected Emperor's Children, I don't think I expected them to go straight into Fulgrim. Color me pleasantly surprised. Already considering grabbing him for painting purposes.