Also why the hell Khorne? It seems rather unimaginative from them by now and wouldn't undivided have been better?
Because GW has ALWAYS had Khorne as its first love when it comes to chaos. Nurgle gets to be a distant runner up, and they barely even think about the others.
Price, contents, etc And 'answers to all questions'.
Then I get to decide whether its a weekend long party and ordering in a 100 copies, or focusing on the Origins pre release and tossing two copies of a boardgame out for sale No information makes planning suck.
It astounds me they're trying to put this release up against a MtG set prerelease. We're certainly not going to try to run a GW event for fantasy on that day, Magic dominates Way to hard.
GW refuses to accept they actually have competition. They really are there own worst enemy.
I wonder though if AoS fails if GW will then rush out a new edition of classic Warhammer or just scrap all of it.
WHFB has been all but dead to me since 8th (I started in 4th) and AOS will almost certainly switch off the life support machine; its highly likely that Warhammer:Total War will be my last ever Warhammer related purchase. Its not as if I need another wargame at the moment anyway.
These kind of statements show that GW can safely disregard the fan base and just start something new -from a bussiness perspective that is.
I know they have them self to blame for lacluster suport of the fantasy scene, but still, I see alot of fanatsy players upset about this "new direction", but at the same time they claim they are not active consumers or even players, and dont want anything to change.
Crimson Devil wrote:
GW refuses to accept they actually have competition. They really are there own worst enemy.
I wonder though if AoS fails if GW will then rush out a new edition of classic Warhammer or just scrap all of it.
Well whereas Mantic consults with its community regarding the rules for Kings of War (which I don't play but am looking into big time), GW ignores the WHFB community with a wall of silence before this new AoS release. Ok, so WHFB was supposed to be selling badly and had self inflicted problems but it could easily have been fixed by redressing some of the mistakes of the past 5-10 years and making the existing game more attractive to both its existing players in addition to new gamers.
If AoS does fail it is unlikely they will release another new edition seeing as how they have basically just scrapped the old WHFB (lore, game dynamics, books)
Fayric wrote:
These kind of statements show that GW can safely disregard the fan base and just start something new -from a bussiness perspective that is.
I know they have them self to blame for lacluster suport of the fantasy scene, but still, I see alot of fanatsy players upset about this "new direction", but at the same time they claim they are not active consumers or even players, and dont want anything to change.
For GW, there is no players, only customers.
Well I'm an active consumer of the current fantasy range with dozens of boxes still to open. Bought all the End Times hardback books, several boxsets for that range and have at least 5-6 valid armies all ranked up in nice square bases.
I am one of these 'upset' players you speak of and I dislike the 'new direction' from what I have seen so far. I am willing to wait to see whether AoS is a new game and whether a true Warhammer game based on properly ranked up units will come out in the next few months (clutching at straws here really). Obviously thing's are not looking good right now but we can always hope
obleeke wrote: Gotta love the weapons variety for those sigmarines. You can choose between a hammer, hammer and shield, two hammers, or a big hammer
Surely you mean Sigmarian Hurricane Hammers and Sigmaritarian Lightning Shields of Stormy Electrocution.
+1 hammer of hammering.
Can cast hammertime.
5th Ed - HeroHammer
6th Ed - CavalryHammer
7th Ed - BlockHammer
8th Ed - HeroHammer
9th Ed - HammerHammer
Haha! Exalted!
I'm really nonplussed by those pictures. The hero for the Sigmarites looks awesome but the rest look really bland. I'm reserving judgement for now, though.
Fayric wrote: I see alot of fantasy players upset about this "new direction", but at the same time they claim they are not active consumers or even players, and dont want anything to change.
I see what you are saying but I would counter that experienced players who are already invested in the game are a much safer demographic to aim for. Scrapping the 25+ years of history and starting essentially from scrath is extremely risky.
I have spent literally £thousands on WHFB over the years and I am perfectly capable of spending £hundreds more if I had any interest in doing so; I still like the Old World and its Hammer Horror Schlock.
I most certainly want change, as I said I am no longer a player, although I am having a hard time imagine a worse change as the ones we are apparently getting.
There was also a sense of reliability in WFB that's now gone - like it or not, it has at least been a thing that exists and gets supported (badly or not, it's still supported) so while the costs were high you could buy in knowing it would go on to be a thing for a while - it'd been a thing for like, 30 years - but now who can say? I don't have any confidence that "Age of Sigmar" will still be a thing in a year or two. Most if not all of GW's new games are one-offs, and most would assume this will be too - it's only the removal of WFB rulebooks from sale that suggests otherwise.
The logical course of action would be to make something for both the vets and new players. Take the starter boxset for example, if it had a full rulebook it would give veterans incentive to buy it as well as newbies. They would get a full rulebook to play with their existing armies and the starts of two new armies to buy miniatures for. (I.e. Every starter box before this).
Instead the box only appeals to beginners or people wanting to start either army.
If they are trying to make the game more accesable for new players, they also just shot themselves in the foot because now the newbie has to buy a £75 starter set AND a £50 hardback rulebook as soon as they exhaust the possibilities of the 4 page rules sheet.
I'm no fan of fantasy. I do have to say though that this age of sigmar has me interested. Not in the marine ones but in chaos. I'd grab a box or two just to get the chaos stuff
I have always hated the sigmar style hammers. The vast majority are so unrealistically huge and stupid I can't take them seriously at all. Whats worse is that every fething model in that faction has a clown hammer, some two, and one is wielding one with so much mass and ornate crap on it, it would make Harley Quin blush.
The Shadow wrote: At the risk of scaremongering, I really don't like the look of this latest leak.
The biggest fear I've always had for 9th is that it would essentially be "40k with bows and arrows". The transition to round bases, the introduction of space marine-esque models (however nice) and the introduction of what looks very similar to jump/jet pack infantry (top of first picture), only helps to grow these fears.
I'll be happy if there's a mode where I can still use my hundreds of square-based models in larger battles, even if it's a ruleset where I have to house rule to scale it up,or where the battles are slightly smaller.
This, however, just looks like 40k, and that doesn't surprise me, really, considering how this release is supposed to be bringing new people into the game. I think we can wave goodbye to charge arcs, reforms and a movement phase that is different and far more tactical than 40k, and say hello to a style that is very similar, if not identical, to the run/shoot/assault of 40k.
Agreed.
I don't see how you could incorporate AoS into a scaled up mass battle game. AoS has Sigmarite forces in units of 3 or 5 models all on (32mm?) round bases. If the units start that small it would be a big investment to buy enough unit boxes to create a large army. The Khorne force does have marauders in 10 man squads so at least those units are bigger but I don't see how you'd incorporate the new models on round bases with blocks of existing marauders on square bases. Sure its not impossible but it strikes me that making hobbyists do the extra work to meld existing army core troops with the new version is GWs not so subtle way to push everyone into starting over again
I wouldn't mind them doing something War of the Ring-esque, with the round bases slotting into round base movement trays, with units following a ruleset/movement more similar to what it currently is. You then could - more or less - simply use your existing square base models in their own movement trays, in a (hopefully) more or less similar game,
I am honestly going to get two of the kits. If the kit comes with all those miniatures I am going to have a field day.
I know there may be a lot of different opinions, but I am a total fan of this set and I must say it's one of the best things GW has put out for a while. They needed a quick skirmish game to take on Warmahordes, and they may pull it off with this release, if the rules are good that is.
Not really a Khorne fan at the moment but I can see this set being popular, was about time warhammer had a bit of a make over too in my opinion, it wont make me suddenly want to buy it but theres plenty out there that will.
Talys wrote:When I first saw it, I actually thought "World of Warcraft" much more than space marines.
Seconded -Scruffy
Bottle wrote:Something tells me that the Sigmarines are going to be dirt cheap on eBay. GW wanted to make a shiny new faction to draw in new players, but they ended up getting out shined by the new Chaos :-p
I doubt it, most retails on ebay are still asking near retail for a lot of things, the price might seem lower but they jack the shipping up well over what the shipping will actually cost to cover.
And all of a sudden I've discovered what really first laid the path that got me into minis collecting... I don't think I ever actually had the game but I certainly had some of the figures.
Combine that with my Micro Machines military and my 'Ring Raiders' figures and all of a sudden my childhood becomes so clear...
Bottle wrote:Something tells me that the Sigmarines are going to be dirt cheap on eBay. GW wanted to make a shiny new faction to draw in new players, but they ended up getting out shined by the new Chaos :-p
I doubt it, most retails on ebay are still asking near retail for a lot of things, the price might seem lower but they jack the shipping up well over what the shipping will actually cost to cover.
I was commenting that most people seem more interested in the great chaos sculpts over the Sigmarines.
Stuff from current boxsets always goes very very cheap. Try searching Chaos Cultists from Dark Vengence and you'll see.
Well the only thing from the AoS previews that looks like it might be interesting to have is the battle cat. (Thinking about grabbing some to be a feline version of Thunderwolf Calvary)
Everything else looks horrible. Like vomit worthy horrible.
The chaos cultists yeah are averaging about a buck a model. But when you HAVE to have at least 20-30 to even be a viable choice in the main game it's still a punch to the wallet.
Do all the other Chaos Gods exist? Why has it always got to be Khorne? I think Khorne is the only mono-build Daemon army that could actually win games. The GW seems to push certain things too heavily. Warhammer, to me, was more compelling than 40K in that its factions were just more interesting and received far more attention. The Eldar factions, Necrons, Tau and Orks all feel like also-rans in 40K. It's all about the Imperium and Chaos. Now it sounds Warhammer is going down that route.
Maybe they'd be financially better off if they glorified more than just two factions (and in Chaos's case, just one quarter of that faction).
I'd far rather play Skaven or Ogres than the Empire... who the hell wants to play Empire, they're just completely stock medieval humans?
Kanluwen wrote: I'm really not sure where people are getting "battle cat" from in regards to the mount. It looks like a dragon/reptilian mount not a feline...
Yeah, it reminded me of a Lizardmen beast when I first saw it. I'm guessing it's some kind of wingless dragon?
NoPoet wrote: Do all the other Chaos Gods exist? Why has it always got to be Khorne? I think Khorne is the only mono-build Daemon army that could actually win games. The GW seems to push certain things too heavily. Warhammer, to me, was more compelling than 40K in that its factions were just more interesting and received far more attention. The Eldar factions, Necrons, Tau and Orks all feel like also-rans in 40K. It's all about the Imperium and Chaos. Now it sounds Warhammer is going down that route.
Maybe they'd be financially better off if they glorified more than just two factions (and in Chaos's case, just one quarter of that faction).
I'd far rather play Skaven or Ogres than the Empire... who the hell wants to play Empire, they're just completely stock medieval humans?
Hey, I love the Empire! I like fielding an army of old men with beards and no shoes that die horribly against whatever they face. :-)
Problem is the rules won't be good. Because this is games workshop. They don't release their beta rules to the public for fine tuning it feedback. Nor do they pay top creative talent a premium for quality product. No they make their crappy rules set, and when issues inevitably come around, you are expected to friendly dice it off. I harbor no hope for these rules, and they can't even be asked to FAQ their problems.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm really not sure where people are getting "battle cat" from in regards to the mount. It looks like a dragon/reptilian mount not a feline...
Kan, given the age you have in your profile you should be aware of who He Man was.
Even if you can't see it you know exactly what is being referenced.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm really not sure where people are getting "battle cat" from in regards to the mount. It looks like a dragon/reptilian mount not a feline...
Kan, given the age you have in your profile you should be aware of who He Man was.
Even if you can't see it you know exactly what is being referenced.
Well aware. But that hasn't stopped people from saying that it's a cat.
And quite frankly, it was a subtle reminder to get the stupid jokes out of this thread and get back on topic.
Don't have anything to post on topic? Then don't post. It's not difficult.
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Orock wrote: Problem is the rules won't be good. Because this is games workshop. They don't release their beta rules to the public for fine tuning it feedback. Nor do they pay top creative talent a premium for quality product. No they make their crappy rules set, and when issues inevitably come around, you are expected to friendly dice it off. I harbor no hope for these rules, and they can't even be asked to FAQ their problems.
How many companies really release their "beta rules to the public for fine tuning it feedback"?
Orock wrote: Problem is the rules won't be good. Because this is games workshop. They don't release their beta rules to the public for fine tuning it feedback. Nor do they pay top creative talent a premium for quality product. No they make their crappy rules set, and when issues inevitably come around, you are expected to friendly dice it off. I harbor no hope for these rules, and they can't even be asked to FAQ their problems.
How many companies really release their "beta rules to the public for fine tuning it feedback"?
Surely you were around for Privateer Press' WMH Mk2 field test?
Hell, even GW did it with the trail assault rules to name but one. Forgeworld all the time too.
Orock wrote: Problem is the rules won't be good. Because this is games workshop. They don't release their beta rules to the public for fine tuning it feedback. Nor do they pay top creative talent a premium for quality product. No they make their crappy rules set, and when issues inevitably come around, you are expected to friendly dice it off. I harbor no hope for these rules, and they can't even be asked to FAQ their problems.
How many companies really release their "beta rules to the public for fine tuning it feedback"?
Surely you were around for Privateer Press' WMH Mk2 field test?
Hell, even GW did it with the trail assault rules to name but one. Forgeworld all the time too.
In regards to FW, I'd say no, not really. Obviously their "Monster of the Week" models get experimental rules as a free download, and they get changed before being published in the next book, based on feedback, but their main series of rules, i.e. Heresy 30k, is almost all done completely in house. Not that it changes anything, from what I've seen, H30k is a far more balanced game than anything GW design studio puts out.
In regards to FW, I'd say no, not really. Obviously their "Monster of the Week" models get experimental rules as a free download, and they get changed before being published in the next book, based on feedback
I haven't seen anyone else mention it, but have you noticed that the squad sizes appear to be 5 and 3 ?
As for the battelcat debate. Thie silhouette of that citter is defitnely more giant cat than reptile, so I can see the confusion.
Being that I enjoyed watching He-Man as a kid, I'm going to still refer to it as BatteCat wether it's a reptile or not
How many companies really release their "beta rules to the public for fine tuning it feedback"?
Wizards of the Coast
Warlord
Mantic, Privateer Press. Wyrd and Hawk wargames send out the rules to the community to beta test before fine tuning. Also alot (not all) listen to feedback after release as well to make things more balanced.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: I think I am going mad.. but the ones with the two handers.. I am looking at the faces and daring to wonder if they are supposed to be female?
Probably just the page at an angle and the reflection of the flash.
I don't think they have gender so to speak I imagine them more like light angels clones of sigmar ( thats why they all have the same mask and all look the same). But yes GW females are quite masculine
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: I think I am going mad.. but the ones with the two handers.. I am looking at the faces and daring to wonder if they are supposed to be female?
Probably just the page at an angle and the reflection of the flash.
I don't think they have gender so to speak I imagine them more like light angels clones of sigmar ( thats why they all have the same mask and all look the same). But yes GW females are quite masculine
And as if GW would make female models without enormous boobplate or otherwise visible breasts
Avrik_Shasla wrote: They needed a quick skirmish game to take on Warmahordes, and they may pull it off with this release, if the rules are good that is.
That's all well and good, but what about the mass battle game that so many people enjoyed?
If they wanted a skirmish game to rival other similar games, they should have brought out something new entirely, something which would have attracted new players, as well as both old 40k and WHFB players, whilst GW continued to make profit on Warhammer, even if they had to scale it down (in terms of kits, shelf space etc) and stop production of some of the least popular kits.
Came in here as our local GW is offering local gaming clubs an "after hours" look and play at the new AoS stuff and I wanted to see whether I would be able to restrain my laughter and derision long enough to make it through the event.
Looks like I will not. Now I have a free evening to paint up my Bones models and plan my paint jobs on my KoW2 KS army
Red Corsair wrote: I have always hated the sigmar style hammers. The vast majority are so unrealistically huge and stupid I can't take them seriously at all. Whats worse is that every fething model in that faction has a clown hammer, some two, and one is wielding one with so much mass and ornate crap on it, it would make Harley Quin blush.
I wouldn't worry too much about it, most people will clip off the hammers and replace them with Bolters anyway.
Avrik_Shasla wrote: They needed a quick skirmish game to take on Warmahordes, and they may pull it off with this release, if the rules are good that is.
That's all well and good, but what about the mass battle game that so many people enjoyed?
If they wanted a skirmish game to rival other similar games, they should have brought out something new entirely, something which would have attracted new players, as well as both old 40k and WHFB players, whilst GW continued to make profit on Warhammer, even if they had to scale it down (in terms of kits, shelf space etc) and stop production of some of the least popular kits.
That would've been the thinking man's play, so GW would never go for it.
Avrik_Shasla wrote: They needed a quick skirmish game to take on Warmahordes, and they may pull it off with this release, if the rules are good that is.
That's all well and good, but what about the mass battle game that so many people enjoyed?
If they wanted a skirmish game to rival other similar games, they should have brought out something new entirely, something which would have attracted new players, as well as both old 40k and WHFB players, whilst GW continued to make profit on Warhammer, even if they had to scale it down (in terms of kits, shelf space etc) and stop production of some of the least popular kits.
That would've been the thinking man's play, so GW would never go for it.
Eh. From a business point of view, there is a lot of sense behind this latest move from GW. But, in what should be quite a personal company, it would be nice to see some balancing between business and retaining loyal customers, the latter aiding the former. Whilst I have no doubt this move will be successful, I'd rather see GW try and get its money from old players rather than by continuously trying to extract money from people starting games and armies.
Talys wrote: When I first saw it, I actually thought "World of Warcraft" much more than space marines.
Well its much of a sameness. Back in the day when i was playing WoW classic, a friend said to me that my pauldrons looked like space marine pauldrons and that i looked like a space marine. Of course, they had that dwarf in the game who would say: my warhammer cost 40k. WoW or 40k, the style of armour is pretty much the same. And now so with the sigMarines, it seems. I don't find it appealing though, at least not in miniature 'fantasy' form.
If they wanted a skirmish game to rival other similar games, they should have brought out something new entirely, something which would have attracted new players, as well as both old 40k and WHFB players, whilst GW continued to make profit on Warhammer, even if they had to scale it down (in terms of kits, shelf space etc) and stop production of some of the least popular kits.
Alternatively, they could have just released a skirmish game set in the Warhammer Old World, that woudld have allowed them to capitalise on their huge range of existing kits while adding some cool new skirmishey goodness. For example, some sort of Chaos-related calamity could have befallen a town in the Empire, and bands of rival warbands and roaming groups of other races could fight it out in the ruins. They could call it, I don't know... 'Middenheim' or something.
Alternatively, they could have just released a skirmish game set in the Warhammer Old World, that woudld have allowed them to capitalise on their huge range of existing kits while adding some cool new skirmishey goodness... They could call it, I don't know... 'Middenheim' or something.
I don't know...I think "Warhammer Old World" has a certain ring to it! And a great, distinctive acronym!
I kinda sorta reminds me of the game Chronopia from way back when.
Me, too. I think the largest problem with Age of Sigmar is that the Sigmarites do not remind me of Warhammer. They have more of the aesthetic of the Lion Faction from Confrontation, or the aforementioned Chronopia.
The Chaos looks like it always does, but I'm just not getting the Warhammer "feel".
While I would rather have games set in the Old World, like Warhammer should be, I like what I have heard about the theme behind the game. I just don't like the army of hammer-wielding angels in platemail. Just changes everything way too much. It's not like they are revamping Warhammer, but starting from scratch, which is a damn shame. Even the name is like they are just trying to capitalize off the widespread nature of Wahammer game's name to prop up a new game.
If they wanted a skirmish game to rival other similar games, they should have brought out something new entirely, something which would have attracted new players, as well as both old 40k and WHFB players, whilst GW continued to make profit on Warhammer, even if they had to scale it down (in terms of kits, shelf space etc) and stop production of some of the least popular kits.
Alternatively, they could have just released a skirmish game set in the Warhammer Old World, that woudld have allowed them to capitalise on their huge range of existing kits while adding some cool new skirmishey goodness. For example, some sort of Chaos-related calamity could have befallen a town in the Empire, and bands of rival warbands and roaming groups of other races could fight it out in the ruins. They could call it, I don't know... 'Middenheim' or something.
You mean like Warhammer Skirmish? Paths to Glory? Those were done, and I guess not popular enough to rework, though its what I would have preferred. So instead we get AoS. The aesthetic is growing on me, but I prefer larger battles for my warhammer fix.
And no, Kings of War is NOT an acceptable replacement for me. Tried it, don't like it at all.
Avrik_Shasla wrote: just because someone is wearing full plate does not make them look automatically like spacemarines.
No, full plate armor does NOT make them look automatically like Space Marines(TM). Boots, gauntlets, and shoulder plates bigger than the helmet makes them automatically look like Space Marines(TM), because that's the whole Space Marine(TM) aesthetic!
Indeed, it doesn't.
Remember these guys from 5E?
Right.
Post that picture, one of the Sigmarites, and one of a Space Marine side by side. That will make my point exquisitely clear.
Has anyone considered that Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is a different game from Warhammer Fantasy Battle and that we may still see a new edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battle come out, alongside the new skirmish sized game?
Plus Age of Signar could actually be something akin to Space Hulk. A stand alone game, all inclusive. I'm just guessing here...
TimW wrote: Has anyone considered that Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is a different game from Warhammer Fantasy Battle and that we may still see a new edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battle come out, alongside the new skirmish sized game?
Plus Age of Signar could actually be something akin to Space Hulk. A stand alone game, all inclusive. I'm just guessing here...
That's actually what my source told me: a game similar to Space Hulk or the assassin one that just came out. Bunch of models for a stand alone game that CAN port directly into the mass battle thing when it hits.
If they wanted a skirmish game to rival other similar games, they should have brought out something new entirely, something which would have attracted new players, as well as both old 40k and WHFB players, whilst GW continued to make profit on Warhammer, even if they had to scale it down (in terms of kits, shelf space etc) and stop production of some of the least popular kits.
Alternatively, they could have just released a skirmish game set in the Warhammer Old World, that woudld have allowed them to capitalise on their huge range of existing kits while adding some cool new skirmishey goodness. For example, some sort of Chaos-related calamity could have befallen a town in the Empire, and bands of rival warbands and roaming groups of other races could fight it out in the ruins. They could call it, I don't know... 'Middenheim' or something.
You mean like Warhammer Skirmish? Paths to Glory? Those were done, and I guess not popular enough to rework, though its what I would have preferred. So instead we get AoS. The aesthetic is growing on me, but I prefer larger battles for my warhammer fix.
And no, Kings of War is NOT an acceptable replacement for me. Tried it, don't like it at all.
If they wanted a skirmish game to rival other similar games, they should have brought out something new entirely, something which would have attracted new players, as well as both old 40k and WHFB players, whilst GW continued to make profit on Warhammer, even if they had to scale it down (in terms of kits, shelf space etc) and stop production of some of the least popular kits.
Alternatively, they could have just released a skirmish game set in the Warhammer Old World, that woudld have allowed them to capitalise on their huge range of existing kits while adding some cool new skirmishey goodness. For example, some sort of Chaos-related calamity could have befallen a town in the Empire, and bands of rival warbands and roaming groups of other races could fight it out in the ruins. They could call it, I don't know... 'Middenheim' or something.
Perhaps Warhammer Skirmish wasn't successful because it wasn't new and shiny, or because the people who were interested in Warhammer were interested in it because of the large-scale battles. Either way, a "new" skirmish game, even if it was based on one of the existing universes (like post-end times Old World), with new models (like the Sigmar guys) would probably be more successful and, from a business point of view, more profitable, as people can't simply use their existing Warhammer models and have to buy all the new stuff.
Also seconding Cruentus' point about KoW. Whilst I haven't played the game, I don't like the look of the rules. Whilst a lot of the simplicity is appealing, it removes a lot of depth from the game and I find some of the rules plain weird. I'd be more willing to give it a shot if 8th Fantasy didn't continue in my local area, but only using my existing WHFB models. It wouldn't be something I'd like to spend a great deal of money on, no matter how nice some of the mantic models are.
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timetowaste85 wrote:
TimW wrote: Has anyone considered that Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is a different game from Warhammer Fantasy Battle and that we may still see a new edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battle come out, alongside the new skirmish sized game?
Plus Age of Signar could actually be something akin to Space Hulk. A stand alone game, all inclusive. I'm just guessing here...
That's actually what my source told me: a game similar to Space Hulk or the assassin one that just came out. Bunch of models for a stand alone game that CAN port directly into the mass battle thing when it hits.
This'd be good. I'd really like this. And, again, it'd probably work well for GW on a business point of view, especially if they then were to bring out "proper" 9th edition later on, as people would have to buy yet more stuff. However, with all the army books removed from the shelves in GW stores, I think it's unlikely.
Warhammer Skirmish was not a proper expansion, or even a UK studio release.
It was a marketing focus to present another way of playing Warhammer besides mass battles.
Aside from some scenarios and modeling opportunities, it WAS Warhammer.
The USA Studio wrote it as a booklet to sell Merchandising displays of Warhammer and special, limited release blisters.
The blisters (for those old enough to remember), were older classic models suited to scenery objectives, or special characterful pieces.
The only reason this was possible, was because the USA had it's own production capacity.
Only AFTER the thing was produced, and sales plans formulated did the UK Studio and Head Office acquiesce and allow the US to promote it.
Very much a "ask forgiveness instead of permission".
This may be old news, but the concept that Warhammer was a steep entry point was well-known even back then (2001-2)?
And this isn't an opinion, but fact from someone who was there...
TimW wrote: Has anyone considered that Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is a different game from Warhammer Fantasy Battle and that we may still see a new edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battle come out, alongside the new skirmish sized game?
Plus Age of Signar could actually be something akin to Space Hulk. A stand alone game, all inclusive. I'm just guessing here...
That's actually what my source told me: a game similar to Space Hulk or the assassin one that just came out. Bunch of models for a stand alone game that CAN port directly into the mass battle thing when it hits.
Which would have been fine if EVERY piece of WFB rules hadn't been pulled from the shelves.
If a full size WFB reboot/new edition is in the works, then GW's iron curtain of secrecy is really working against them right now. The ONLY way they'd gain any faith back from current players is if the AoS release specifically mentions what and when the full size game/rules will be.
So far the rumors about there still being a separate release and books for full size games are few and far between.
On the note of the Sigmarine mount, the issue is that it's a lizard/dragon skin draped over the shape and pose of something most commonly associated with large predatory cats. At a glance, the pose doesn't look like anything lizard like at all.
There's a quite cynical air to these releases that gives the impression all this was done for the sake of their IP, as regular fantasy figures don't give them enough exclusivity. They seem to have binned an entire game system because they don't want to make armies with knights and elves in anymore because other people can too.
Honestly I don't like what I've seen. It looks like another generic fantasy type thing that's sprung up and I tend to skim over, it doesn't excite me or feel very warhammer. The Sigmar warriors just look a lot like Scibor's spartans.
That;s the bizarre thing, I really hope these 'doing it for the IP' rumours are completely wrong.. because otherwise.. GW has utterly failed.
Nothing in that boxed set would seem to grant them better IP protection than anything else they have ever released.. in fact it seems even more derivative than some of their more recent releases and would be harder to claim in a IP case.
Howard A Treesong wrote: There's a quite cynical air to these releases that gives the impression all this was done for the sake of their IP, as regular fantasy figures don't give them enough exclusivity. They seem to have binned an entire game system because they don't want to make armies with knights and elves in anymore because other people can too.
Honestly I don't like what I've seen. It looks like another generic fantasy type thing that's sprung up and I tend to skim over, it doesn't excite me or feel very warhammer. The Sigmar warriors just look a lot like Scibor's spartans.
Possibly less we'll be able to protect this than: players will think your Perry historical War of the Roses miniatures don't look as cool as armored angels as they did as alternative empire troops.
I am actually really bothered by this. God I hope this is not 9th and just some crap like epic. I do not like the idea of mid evil silver/gold/steel smiths. Dwarfs could do it kinda but not well, humans barly these guys seem to have better get then people in 40k......... also by the looks of things they are like robot wings not flesh....so they can make robotics......
the age of sigmar where dinos fight robots....... all we need now is throw in some skulls, winged men and steampunk crap and they got every cliche thing around.
•The most awesome Starter Set Games Workshop has ever produced!
•Recreate the first battle in the Age of Sigmar as the Stormcast Eternals battle the Khorne Goretide to open a Realmgate!
•47 incredibly detailed plastic miniatures; 18 Stormcast Eternals and 29 Warriors of Khorne.
•96 page Warhammer Age of Sigmar book and 4 page rules sheet.
•12 dice, 2 range rulers and 2 Transfer Sheets.
•Totally new beginning for Warhammer miniatures.
•The new miniatures in the starter box are some of the best we have ever done, some will slot straight into existing collections, while the new Stormcast Eternals are going to inspire customers to start new armies.
Well if I'm going to buy this (but most likely I won't) I'm gonna use the Sigmarites as conversion fodder for Basilea of KoW. Mantic may have good rules, but god knows their Basilean line looks funny in a very weird way.
Howard A Treesong wrote: There's a quite cynical air to these releases that gives the impression all this was done for the sake of their IP, as regular fantasy figures don't give them enough exclusivity. They seem to have binned an entire game system because they don't want to make armies with knights and elves in anymore because other people can too.
Honestly I don't like what I've seen. It looks like another generic fantasy type thing that's sprung up and I tend to skim over, it doesn't excite me or feel very warhammer. The Sigmar warriors just look a lot like Scibor's spartans.
Possibly less we'll be able to protect this than: players will think your Perry historical War of the Roses miniatures don't look as cool as armored angels as they did as alternative empire troops.
And what happens when someone decides Sigmarines are too expensive and decides to use cheap historical Greeks? Or when half a dozen companies in southern & eastern Europe all put out variations on not-Sigmarines? Or when folk just proxy in the Sanguinary Guard models they already own? If folk were using Perry historicals already odds are their primary concern is value rather than aesthetic or scale, so "but it's not as THE AWESUMZ as Sigmarine Superangels!" is unlikely to sway their purchasing habits.
The only reason GW think these kinds of moves will allow them a more protectable stance on IP is because they don't understand IP law, and the only reason the don't understand why it's not going to stop people using third-party models and proxies is because they cannot fathom the idea that their product is not completely price inelastic.
•The most awesome Starter Set Games Workshop has ever produced!
•Recreate the first battle in the Age of Sigmar as the Stormcast Eternals battle the Khorne Goretide to open a Realmgate!
•47 incredibly detailed plastic miniatures; 18 Stormcast Eternals and 29 Warriors of Khorne.
•96 page Warhammer Age of Sigmar book and 4 page rules sheet.
•12 dice, 2 range rulers and 2 Transfer Sheets.
•Totally new beginning for Warhammer miniatures.
•The new miniatures in the starter box are some of the best we have ever done, some will slot straight into existing collections, while the new Stormcast Eternals are going to inspire customers to start new armies.
So the Sigmarines are Stormcast Eternals
If this is true, the 96 page rulebook is the important bit.
Yodhrin wrote: If folk were using Perry historicals already odds are their primary concern is value rather than aesthetic or scale, so "but it's not as THE AWESUMZ as Sigmarine Superangels!" is unlikely to sway their purchasing habits.
Or maybe, just maybe they really do care about aesthetic and scale and just think GW can't be arsed to do either properly.
I know there is a ton of venom in this thread towards GW, but do you seriously think the 4 page quicksheet is all the rules they would include in a starter set ?
I'm pretty sure the 96 pages will encompass :
box contents
assembly instructions
how to play
fluff
pretty pictures
painting guide
Should pay attention to the bit where "some of these models will fit in nicely with prior collections, while the Sigmarines will convince people to build a new force". Really suggests them keeping up with the current lines.
adamsouza wrote: I know there is a ton of venom in this thread towards GW, but do you seriously think the 4 page quicksheet is all the rules they would include in a starter set ?
Other than precedent, is there any particular reason to believe that they wouldn't do that, if they thought it might push add-on sales?
They wouldn't be the first company to release a condensed version of the rules with just enough detail to play with the starter set, and keep the full rulebook as an add-on sale.
adamsouza wrote: I know there is a ton of venom in this thread towards GW, but do you seriously think the 4 page quicksheet is all the rules they would include in a starter set ?
Other than precedent, is there any particular reason to believe that they wouldn't do that, if they thought it might push add-on sales?
They wouldn't be the first company to release a condensed version of the rules with just enough detail to play with the starter set, and keep the full rulebook as an add-on sale.
Well, and could AoS as a game be as complicated as Space Hulk or Kill-Team, and therefore only require four pages? It seems that maybe this would be the mini-game you get with the models, and then since 9th is a whole separate thing you buy that rule book separately. It works as a way of selling a "game" per se, and nixing the whole mini-rule book option, something I'm sure GW is happy to have...er, fixed.
Case in point. They sold just the mini rulebook, likely as a test case, months ago. I foresee two options (other than some limited edition nonsense) for full rules, $85 hard bound and $35 mini.
agnosto wrote: Case in point. They sold just the mini rulebook, likely as a test case, months ago. I foresee two options (other than some limited edition nonsense) for full rules, $85 hard bound and $35 mini.
Sure, what's an extra $35 between friends anyway? They didn't have any problem selling the rules for the Adeptus Mechanicus army for an extra $20 to get the whole set for that one army, so I think this plan would be in-line with the current business model.
adamsouza wrote: do you seriously think the 4 page quicksheet is all the rules they would include in a starter set ?
It very well could be if you don't need stuff like Magic, Ranks, Monsters, War Machines, Swarms, etc. 4 pages of core rules may well be enough.
Strip the game down to it's core of Move / Shoot / Fight, and move any unit-specific special rules to the unit description, and this could work just like the old 40k 2E datasheets.
Howard A Treesong wrote: There's a quite cynical air to these releases that gives the impression all this was done for the sake of their IP, as regular fantasy figures don't give them enough exclusivity. They seem to have binned an entire game system because they don't want to make armies with knights and elves in anymore because other people can too.
Honestly I don't like what I've seen. It looks like another generic fantasy type thing that's sprung up and I tend to skim over, it doesn't excite me or feel very warhammer. The Sigmar warriors just look a lot like Scibor's spartans.
Possibly less we'll be able to protect this than: players will think your Perry historical War of the Roses miniatures don't look as cool as armored angels as they did as alternative empire troops.
And what happens when someone decides Sigmarines are too expensive and decides to use cheap historical Greeks? Or when half a dozen companies in southern & eastern Europe all put out variations on not-Sigmarines? Or when folk just proxy in the Sanguinary Guard models they already own? If folk were using Perry historicals already odds are their primary concern is value rather than aesthetic or scale, so "but it's not as THE AWESUMZ as Sigmarine Superangels!" is unlikely to sway their purchasing habits.
The only reason GW think these kinds of moves will allow them a more protectable stance on IP is because they don't understand IP law, and the only reason the don't understand why it's not going to stop people using third-party models and proxies is because they cannot fathom the idea that their product is not completely price inelastic.
Just a supposition (by that I mean my supposition of the Sigmar models being a cool new force farther away from historical models so to entice folks to buy GW specifically). Also if you want to spend more money than for GW models, Scibor's a good place to do it (high quality models at high quality prices).
Avrik_Shasla wrote: I am honestly going to get two of the kits. If the kit comes with all those miniatures I am going to have a field day.
I know there may be a lot of different opinions, but I am a total fan of this set and I must say it's one of the best things GW has put out for a while. They needed a quick skirmish game to take on Warmahordes, and they may pull it off with this release, if the rules are good that is.
Kan has a better chance and getting us to stop calling the lizardthing "Battlecat" than GW has of writting rules as good as Privateer Press'.
adamsouza wrote: do you seriously think the 4 page quicksheet is all the rules they would include in a starter set ?
It very well could be if you don't need stuff like Magic, Ranks, Monsters, War Machines, Swarms, etc. 4 pages of core rules may well be enough.
Strip the game down to it's core of Move / Shoot / Fight, and move any unit-specific special rules to the unit description, and this could work just like the old 40k 2E datasheets.
Do they even need shoot? I don't see anyone with a ranged weapon.
Roll 2d6 for how far you move.
If you hit an enemy roll 2d6 and add your Cool stat.
Whoever's higher wins, whoever's lower dies.
If there's a tie the game ends and everyone goes home.
•The most awesome Starter Set Games Workshop has ever produced!
Obviously not true. The only thing the southern hemisphere gets first are price increases! Also, nothing will top Dreadfleet for the most awesomest starter GW has ever produced. It was so good, GW deemed it too valuable to even sell the last few (tens of) thousand copies for something as empheral as cash money. Clearly this will end up with big false red text in Petre's Thread of Grudges.
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DO ITTOIT wrote: "Realmgate" may be the most hilariously stupid word GW has come up with, imo. I dunno why, but it kills me.
Single word? Possibly... but not "name". All the wolfie wolf talons of the wolf lord space wolfs probably take the cake there.
DO ITTOIT wrote: "Realmgate" may be the most hilariously stupid word GW has come up with, imo. I dunno why, but it kills me.
Umm. Why? What is so bad about it?
These 'gates' might be the connections between the various 'realms'. Seems to make sense, if that's the true, and is pretty straight-forward and simple.
Obviously - there are going to be a group of people who will rip GW no matter -what- names, images, fonts, minis, colors, factions, etc, etc, that they come up with. It's like there are dozens of people waiting for ANY bit of news just so they can rip into it (for no apparent reason) and be negative - just for the sake of being negative. I am waiting for that guy to come in and start shouting, "REALMGATE? SO DUMB! I AM SELLING ALL MY ARMIES NOW!"
Mort wrote: Obviously - there are going to be a group of people who will rip GW no matter -what- names, images, fonts, minis, colors, factions, etc, etc, that they come up with. It's like there are dozens of people waiting for ANY bit of news just so they can rip into it (for no apparent reason) and be negative - just for the sake of being negative. I am waiting for that guy to come in and start shouting, "REALMGATE? SO DUMB! I AM SELLING ALL MY ARMIES NOW!".
And then at the opposite end of the spectrum you have the people who dismiss any criticism as people being negative just for the sake of being negative.
Different people like (and dislike) different things. Can we all try sticking to the topic, rather than ranting about how screwed up the universe is because other people don't share our own personal opinions?
Mort wrote: Obviously - there are going to be a group of people who will rip GW no matter -what- names, images, fonts, minis, colors, factions, etc, etc, that they come up with. It's like there are dozens of people waiting for ANY bit of news just so they can rip into it (for no apparent reason) and be negative - just for the sake of being negative. I am waiting for that guy to come in and start shouting, "REALMGATE? SO DUMB! I AM SELLING ALL MY ARMIES NOW!".
And then at the opposite end of the spectrum you have the people who dismiss any criticism as people being negative just for the sake of being negative.
Different people like (and dislike) different things. Can we all try sticking to the topic, rather than ranting about how screwed up the universe is because other people don't share our own personal opinions?
'
That's the typical defense of the negative bunch who get called out for... well... being negative for no real reason other than to just 'hate on' GW. And so it goes. There's hyperbole at both ends, sure. I've seen plenty of negative hyperbole here though, and little - if any - positive. If you haven't seen that, you might wanna take a peek back through the thread.
Besides, how is 'REALM GATE IS THE DUMBEST NAME AND I DONT EVEN KNOW WHY' 'on topic', yet pointing out how silly that sounds, isn't?
I don't dismiss reasonable criticism. I just haven't seen much of it yet in this thread, but I've sure seen a heaping load of over-the-top negative criticism that just really doesn't even make sense.
Here's some reasonable criticism then: you're engaging in behaviour you claim to detest. Complaints about complaints are no more productive than the complaint itself, often less as the complaint can be an opinion that is on topic, while the complaint about the complaint is by nature offtopic.
Instead of attacking the 'negative bunch' and calling them haters, how about some positive hyperbole posts to balance them out? At least that will be a bit more constructive.
Achaylus72 wrote: I am agoged at the new minis but again GW decided that if we did not get enough Khorne in the last year then we get more Khorne stuff.
What the hell, why doesn't GW bite the bullet and squat Slaanesh and Tzeentch and just have Khorne and Nurgle.
I think it's just a matter of demand/popularity.
Khorne is most likely the most popular chaos god, so put new Khorne stuff in the box and assume it will help sell more units. Pack it with a totally new faction that some argue 'look' like GW's best-selling line from their most popular game, and... well... you can see why some might think GW bean-counters feel those were the two best groups of plastic to put in the starter box.
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Torga_DW wrote: Here's some reasonable criticism then: you're engaging in behaviour you claim to detest. Complaints about complaints are no more productive than the complaint itself, often less as the complaint can be an opinion that is on topic, while the complaint about the complaint is by nature offtopic.
Instead of attacking the 'negative bunch' and calling them haters, how about some positive hyperbole posts to balance them out? At least that will be a bit more constructive.
All you're doing is trying to continue the stream of hyperbole - even encouraging it - when it's really unnecessary from both sides. So I disagree with your 'constructiveness' assertion.
Someone has to point it out - otherwise there's never a chance for change, however small that chance might be. And if the mods are cool with that type of negativity, they should be cool with others calling others on it, eh? There's a big difference between 'being negative' and 'being a hater.'. I get the impression you probably understand that. There's literally been hundreds of 'negative' posts in this thread, to which there have been no responses. Most folks get that, and accept those negative comments, even if they disagree.
It's usually the over-the-top negativity that attracts the ire of others - such as the post I had responded to. That sort of thing tends to breed more of the same, if ignored. Maybe you're cool with that. /shrug.
Khorne makes sense if you want a decent starter that let's two people have a basic game, it's really not easy to get two semi balanced visually appealing sides, so for Warhammer you want 2 sides that can basically charge into each other along with an oddity or two with ranged/spells/buffs, plus a leader, and by and large that is what is in the box.
Can't wait for this, If new Fantasy means it removes tons of internet whiners then GW is onto a winner, already fair few non GW players at my club interested in this if it's skirmish.
Can't wait for this, If new Fantasy means it removes tons of internet whiners then GW is onto a winner, already fair few non GW players at my club interested in this if it's skirmish.
When you say 'tons of internet whiners' are you referring to a large proportion of the existing WHFB players who have problems with the new game as it appears at present? Also could you quantify the number of 'non GW players' at your club that are interested in the new skirmish game and are actually going to take it up?
Mort wrote: ...but I've sure seen a heaping load of over-the-top negative criticism that just really doesn't even make sense.
Criticism often doesn't make sense when you disagree with it. That doesn't make it invalid. It just makes it something you don't understand.
Posting opinions on a new release is on topic for a new release discussion thread, even if you personally disagree with those opinions.
Complaining about people having an opinion different to your own is not.
SO, Age of Sigmar, eh?
That's why I asked the guy for clarification. In fact, I asked that in the post of mine that you chose to single-out. There's criticism, and there's hyperbole. At the risk of misjudging what the guy had said - I asked for clarification, while making the admission that -some- 'criticism' isn't criticism at all - but rather simply a way for people to hate on the subject of the thread. Maybe his post was one of those. Maybe not. Ultimately, I don't really care one way or another for the name 'Realmgate'. But, when someone goes off like he did about it - I am curious why. Is the name offensive in some way? Is it used in some other form of fiction so GW's use of it here DOES make it ridiculous? (i.e. if they had called it a 'Stargate'... well... ok, I could see that guy's response being spot-on, lol).
But anyway, sure... AOS... Since the post I was responding to had such an issue with 'Realmgate' as a name of the structure that the two forces were fighting over, and since there are some who think that it is the dumbest, silliest name that could possibly ever be imagined (their hyperbole, not mine), I am very curious to hear what alternative names folks might have been more satisfied with/accepting of? Someone mentioned 'Realm Gate'. It sounds as if these structures will be super-important as far as the fluff goes... and just the vague bits we've seen so far give me the impression of the Webway in 40K, and the portals to access it.
If GW goes with the 'pocket dimension' ideas or 'bubbles' that people have referred to earlier in the thread, these gates could be what allows access 'between bubbles', to other 'realms'. It could explain how the various other factions meet up with those presented in the box, including the factions many of us already know and love.
Price, contents, etc And 'answers to all questions'.
Then I get to decide whether its a weekend long party and ordering in a 100 copies, or focusing on the Origins pre release and tossing two copies of a boardgame out for sale No information makes planning suck.
It astounds me they're trying to put this release up against a MtG set prerelease. We're certainly not going to try to run a GW event for fantasy on that day, Magic dominates Way to hard.
GW refuses to accept they actually have competition. They really are there own worst enemy.
I wonder though if AoS fails if GW will then rush out a new edition of classic Warhammer or just scrap all of it.
That would be great, Age of Warcraft bites the dust and old world is back. That's what I will root for, noone I know is interested in that awful starter anyway so maybe, just maybe.
They should have written a really a good skirmish ruleset and word of the mouth would sell it for them but since they don't know how anymore, we get this pointless drama.
I have small hopes that they will re release whfb around Warhammer Total War premiere, I mean they cant be that stupid and pass on the opportunity can they? Oh wait.
Or is this just some good cop bad cop routine, kill whfb, ressurect whfb?
Indeed, I too was reminded of Stargate, and I imagine they work very similarly. It makes me wonder how GW can take itself at all seriously, when it claimed in a court of law that its designers come up with everything for their games with their own imaginations and that they had absolutely no outside influence whatsoever, when an influence is so obvious like that. It's always been okay for GW to steal from fething everyone, but woe betide you if you release a model that bears even a passing resemblance to something they made.
But whatever, it doesn't "offend" me anywhere near as much as "Stormcast Eternals" does. Holy hell is that stupid. I think they could have come up with something way better if they tried, but I guess they didn't have more than a couple minutes to work out the names.
It's also probably riling people up because, as you said, these gates are probably what link the "pocket dimensions" together, which has been criticized ever since it was first suggested months ago that this is the direction the new fluff is going because it sounds really god-damned stupid to everyone. It may be that people aren't so bothered by the name itself, but just the fact that it acts as a confirmation that Bubblehammer is indeed a thing, and they're probably taking out their frustration by bashing the name.
Looking at the new stuff for the first time yesterday, the new gold guys kind of remind me of old Rackham Griffins, though with fewer pointy bits and hammers instead of swords.
Lions of Alahan are probably a closer match appearance and fluff wise.
As for "realmgate" it seems imply a scandal regarding realms rather than a portal. As people seem annoyed by the "bubblehammer" concept this could be a very accurate description.
How many people think that even a 4 page GW rule sheet will be horribly imbalanced?
Raises hand.
They couldnt even figure out that deathwing is unplayable by itself. Everything goes into reserves, nothing rolls for reserves turn 1. You lose sir, good day!
How many people think that even a 4 page GW rule sheet will be horribly imbalanced?
Raises hand.
They couldnt even figure out that deathwing is unplayable by itself. Everything goes into reserves, nothing rolls for reserves turn 1. You lose sir, good day!
Dice with 5 sides Sigmar and one side Khorne, if Khorne comes up, use the special Sigmar re-roll
I want to know what the price is, with the space Hulk it increased in price, so i expect this one to cost 100 million dollar muwahahaha! oops i mean 175 Dollar
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Lions of Alahan are probably a closer match appearance and fluff wise.
As for "realmgate" it seems imply a scandal regarding realms rather than a portal. As people seem annoyed by the "bubblehammer" concept this could be a very accurate description.
I have no issues with them calling it a realmgate, cannot see the the problem. As for this whole bubble hammer, implying that all factions are in there own bubble, I call rubbish. Based off the bits of text we could see from the wd it reads more like that this starter kit is taking place inside the warp where everything got sucked into at the end of the endtimes.. Sigmars 'angels' are fighting a battle for the gate of Azyr (also known as a realm gate) which will open up access to regalia to let all the people out of the warp.
Based on previous rumours all races will be in the SAME world with the exception of elves (take with salt of course but it's all we have to go off). So other then some old old rumblings about "bubblehammer" I have yet to see anything that indicates this is the case.
Personally I can't wait to see where the lore goes it's exciting
@Fezza: i'm excited to see how everything turns out, too...
@Sidstyler: what is the problem with the name Stormcast Eternals???
i don't see why that would offend you, but maybe i am missing something...
personally, i don't have a problem with any of the GW naming conventions...
it didn't bother me with the Blood Angels' Blood Talons, and it didn't bother me with the Space Wolves' stuff like Murderfang...
i mean, it's a work of fiction, not reality...
why get so worked up over it???
it is no more real than whatever anybody wants to use in their head-canon...
i don't have a problem with the different realms, either...
as far as i'm concerned, the Old World still exists everytime i open the more than 30 years worth of books that i have, from 1st edition Fantasy Roleplay, through the original novels like Beast in Velvet and Drachenfels, the Realms of Chaos books, all the way up to Tamurkhan and the 8th edition Army Books...
i think the End Times were awesome books, but anyone who doesn't like them can easily just ignore them...
ignore the Age of Sigmar, and just enjoy the previous 30 years of product instead...
i just don't get why people would let themselves get so worked up over some fiction, and the names of imaginary things and characters...
for me, the new Khorne models, look way cooler than the last generation of Marauders and Chosen, so that is awesome...
the new Lord, with his little Flesh Hound pet, are definitely hitting the painting queue as soon as possible...
i am salivating for a close up look at the new Chosen, BSB, and Lord...
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Lions of Alahan are probably a closer match appearance and fluff wise.
As for "realmgate" it seems imply a scandal regarding realms rather than a portal. As people seem annoyed by the "bubblehammer" concept this could be a very accurate description.
I have no issues with them calling it a realmgate, cannot see the the problem. As for this whole bubble hammer, implying that all factions are in there own bubble, I call rubbish. Based off the bits of text we could see from the wd it reads more like that this starter kit is taking place inside the warp where everything got sucked into at the end of the endtimes.. Sigmars 'angels' are fighting a battle for the gate of Azyr (also known as a realm gate) which will open up access to regalia to let all the people out of the warp.
Based on previous rumours all races will be in the SAME world with the exception of elves (take with salt of course but it's all we have to go off). So other then some old old rumblings about "bubblehammer" I have yet to see anything that indicates this is the case.
Personally I can't wait to see where the lore goes it's exciting
I'm wondering will it be a case of the Sigmarines battling Chaos and gradually bringing new factions into the new game. Perhaps when they win the battle for Azyr gate they bring in some form of unified army of men but also allow the Skaven in at the same time. The next boxset after this one could reflect this just like the recent 40K campaign boxsets (Stormclaw, Sanctus Reach etc). Maybe there is a gate for each of the Winds of Magic as a plot dynamic?
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Lions of Alahan are probably a closer match appearance and fluff wise.
As for "realmgate" it seems imply a scandal regarding realms rather than a portal. As people seem annoyed by the "bubblehammer" concept this could be a very accurate description.
I have no issues with them calling it a realmgate, cannot see the the problem. As for this whole bubble hammer, implying that all factions are in there own bubble, I call rubbish. Based off the bits of text we could see from the wd it reads more like that this starter kit is taking place inside the warp where everything got sucked into at the end of the endtimes.. Sigmars 'angels' are fighting a battle for the gate of Azyr (also known as a realm gate) which will open up access to regalia to let all the people out of the warp.
Based on previous rumours all races will be in the SAME world with the exception of elves (take with salt of course but it's all we have to go off). So other then some old old rumblings about "bubblehammer" I have yet to see anything that indicates this is the case.
Personally I can't wait to see where the lore goes it's exciting
I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about 'realm gate' reminds me of saying something like 'door-portal' or 'window-door'. Not sure what it is, it looks like a perfectly innocuous word. It might just be the strangeness of the new, and it may well grow on me. Not a big deal at all.
Like 900 others I'd love to convert these to Marines!
They also look fab as fantasy soldiers as they are. Very interesting new direction, and I'll probably come if for a starter set at least, and I don't play WFB.
JohnnyHell wrote: Like 900 others I'd love to convert these to Marines!
They also look fab as fantasy soldiers as they are. Very interesting new direction, and I'll probably come if for a starter set at least, and I don't play WFB.
Honestly I'd be interested in how many purely 40k players jump into this box.
I've been told it's "fun" and "aiming for a 30 minute game"
94 pages now okay. ( could anyone with the mini 40k rulebook tell me how many pages that has?)
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Lions of Alahan are probably a closer match appearance and fluff wise.
As for "realmgate" it seems imply a scandal regarding realms rather than a portal. As people seem annoyed by the "bubblehammer" concept this could be a very accurate description.
I have no issues with them calling it a realmgate, cannot see the the problem. As for this whole bubble hammer, implying that all factions are in there own bubble, I call rubbish. Based off the bits of text we could see from the wd it reads more like that this starter kit is taking place inside the warp where everything got sucked into at the end of the endtimes.. Sigmars 'angels' are fighting a battle for the gate of Azyr (also known as a realm gate) which will open up access to regalia to let all the people out of the warp.
Based on previous rumours all races will be in the SAME world with the exception of elves (take with salt of course but it's all we have to go off). So other then some old old rumblings about "bubblehammer" I have yet to see anything that indicates this is the case.
Personally I can't wait to see where the lore goes it's exciting
If you can't the problem with naming something using a convention that implies scandal ( watergate ring any bells? ) rather than giving it a more defining name, maybe even gates of Azyr (plural) than you must have very low hopes for the standard the new fluff will be written to.
JohnnyHell wrote: Like 900 others I'd love to convert these to Marines!
They also look fab as fantasy soldiers as they are. Very interesting new direction, and I'll probably come if for a starter set at least, and I don't play WFB.
Honestly I'd be interested in how many purely 40k players jump into this box.
I've been told it's "fun" and "aiming for a 30 minute game"
94 pages now okay. ( could anyone with the mini 40k rulebook tell me how many pages that has?)
If you can't the problem with naming something using a convention that implies scandal ( watergate ring any bells? ) rather than giving it a more defining name, maybe even gates of Azyr (plural) than you must have very low hopes for the standard the new fluff will be written to.
I don't really think you can draw conclusions about people just from them not being sooo burdened by American political history that it shapes their entire perception of language.
But half of that is worthless bloat. The 4th edition mini was 87 numbered pages (plus an intro and appendix) and covered everything that needed to be covered. 96 pages sounds right for a normal game not burdened by mysterious objectives, rules for specific terrain pieces, superheavies, etc.
fair enough...
that still doesn't explain why Stormcast Eternals is such an offensive name...
@UBT: yeah, Watergate and Realm Gate, sound exactly alike...
seriously, that is a bit of a stretch...
i can't speak for anybody else, but for me it isn't a matter of low hopes for the standard of the new fluff, as much as it is that i don't judge the fluff, but simply enjoy it...
if a piece of fiction is describing a setting that i enjoy, then i enjoy that fiction...
anything that sheds light on an imaginary world is cool with me...
i don't have any preconceptions about where the worlds created by someone else should go, but am thankful that they take the time to add to those worlds...
in that vein, i like the look of the Sigmarites, because i have no preconception of what this new faction should have looked like...
i am stoked to see that the new faction gives off a Classical Greek vibe, but taken to the over-the-top extreme that is a hallmark of GW minis...
i wonder how cool these guys will look painted with a verdigrised bronze???
could be cool...
offtopic. The "US" seem to want to label everything as (...)gate nowadays. Everysingle tiny bit of a problem is in some way comparable to the watergate scandal.. yeah right.
Stormfront sounds kinda familiar if you really want to push it. But honestly unless you know that name then I don't see why it's offensive. And even so it's a push.
The best bit about a sundered reality from a business POV is that, once milked dry, you can move the setting on with a reforged New World replacing the Bubbleverse, just as Bubbleverse replaced The Old World. Simples.
JohnnyHell wrote: The best bit about a sundered reality from a business POV is that, once milked dry, you can move the setting on with a reforged New World replacing the Bubbleverse, just as Bubbleverse replaced The Old World. Simples.
Can't we just skip the bubbleverse bit and get our Old World back please?
JohnnyHell wrote: The best bit about a sundered reality from a business POV is that, once milked dry, you can move the setting on with a reforged New World replacing the Bubbleverse, just as Bubbleverse replaced The Old World. Simples.
Can't we just skip the bubbleverse bit and get our Old World back please?
Sorry that's not what Lord Kirby commanded. Just like Squats, Sisters of battle, Chaos Dwarfs ( okay fw but it's not the same ) and Dogs of war, Necromunda, Gorkamorka and Mordhiem it's gone.
JohnnyHell wrote: The best bit about a sundered reality from a business POV is that, once milked dry, you can move the setting on with a reforged New World replacing the Bubbleverse, just as Bubbleverse replaced The Old World. Simples.
I disagree, I dont think its so much a bubbleverse, too far afield even from what we have seen. I am more inclined to say that on the other side of that gate is a post apocalyptic old world. Torn asunder and spat back out. Either the angels opening the gate (sorry they are angels to me) spits fractions of the old world back out and some factions with it (the others make there way back in other ways) or the world has already return and opening the gate puts life back on it.
I think having the possibility of other realms definitely increases the expandability later on but I don't think they are going to push that as far as to put all factions in different realms. That would be boring.
Either way it should be very interesting to begin with, the question is can the rules/lore keep that interest. I am not worried about the quality of miniatures as in the last year or so they have all been very high quality (some exceptions but I think that is mostly personal preference).
JohnnyHell wrote: The best bit about a sundered reality from a business POV is that, once milked dry, you can move the setting on with a reforged New World replacing the Bubbleverse, just as Bubbleverse replaced The Old World. Simples.
I disagree, I dont think its so much a bubbleverse, too far afield even from what we have seen. I am more inclined to say that on the other side of that gate is a post apocalyptic old world. Torn asunder and spat back out. Either the angels opening the gate (sorry they are angels to me) spits fractions of the old world back out and some factions with it (the others make there way back in other ways) or the world has already return and opening the gate puts life back on it.
I think having the possibility of other realms definitely increases the expandability later on but I don't think they are going to push that as far as to put all factions in different realms. That would be boring.
Either way it should be very interesting to begin with, the question is can the rules/lore keep that interest. I am not worried about the quality of miniatures as in the last year or so they have all been very high quality (some exceptions but I think that is mostly personal preference).
Fez
Oh look the Space Marines save the day again woo hoo.
JohnnyHell wrote: The best bit about a sundered reality from a business POV is that, once milked dry, you can move the setting on with a reforged New World replacing the Bubbleverse, just as Bubbleverse replaced The Old World. Simples.
Can't we just skip the bubbleverse bit and get our Old World back please?
It's still there if you want to use the older rules.
I'm assuming you are one of the Gobstyks members, and they have a good WHFB group, I'm sure 8th won't die if it turns out the new rules invalidate armies.
Yodhrin wrote: If folk were using Perry historicals already odds are their primary concern is value rather than aesthetic or scale, so "but it's not as THE AWESUMZ as Sigmarine Superangels!" is unlikely to sway their purchasing habits.
Or maybe, just maybe they really do care about aesthetic and scale and just think GW can't be arsed to do either properly.
Context is important. His point was that GW might be hoping people would avoid using historicals because the new models would, unlike in the case of the Empire where there is at least a superficial similarity, be so completely different in scale and aesthetic to other options that everyone would just buy the Sigmarines. My point was that people already buying historicals are likely unconcerned with that, ie they are unconcerned with scale & aesthetic relative to Warhammer miniatures, ie whether they match or not.
Try reading and understanding before you jump down someone's throat next time.
For me the names are just lazy and neither evocative nor necessary. If I called a spade a "Soilturner of Gardenfield" there is nothing technically incorrect with the name and it describes the item in question, but it's also a convoluted way of doing things. It's also pretty transparent attempt in trying to up the importance of a spade rather than just calling it a spade. Likely some merit in Realmgate and all the other names attempting to be a IP-protectable rather than just calling it a gate and so forth. Anyone checked if any of those items are registered to GW now? They should get on Sigmarines too, just in case.
As far as the models go, the Sigmarines are middling in my opinion. Yes, they are Fantasy Space Marines though the mental gymnastics some are attempting to go through to refute that is quite amusing. Given the sales numbers that Space Marines put up, why wouldn't GW try to see if lightning could strike twice? Even if it doesn't, they can leave them as elites for other "Good" armies and still likely make back their investment though I suspect GW will make more than a little profit on them. Khorne is Khorne; much like it's homophone you either like it and want more of it, or you don't care for it and it won't appeal to you. On their own they're not bad, but it's doubtful I'll find them worth the price tag GW wants to slap on them. I'll wait to be pleasantly surprised, but on terms of pricing that's never the way to bet with GW.
As a plan to launch a new game system, it's not the worst way to start out. As a continuation of a game with a 30 year lineage, most of which being upturned already, I'm not sure it will pan out as well as they hope. Still, as with the somewhat goofy names they're fond of, they're aiming at a younger market (wherein you will find ample examples of horrid naming) and if they retain a handful of customers along the way well that's just dandy.
Am I correcting in saying that Balthasaar what's his name is some god of metal these days?
If these Sigmar troops had in fact been Balthasar's followers, then I think people would be nodding their heads in approval, because they look more like his followers than Sigmar's.
As for the Khorne release, two years ago, it would have been good. Nowadays, it's a bit meh.
I've looked at these minis when I'm sober, looked at them last night with a few drinks in me, and now I'm looking at them with a sore head...and I'm still feeling no heat from them.
I can't be accused at not looking at them from different angles.
Krinsath wrote: For me the names are just lazy and neither evocative nor necessary. If I called a spade a "Soilturner of Gardenfield" there is nothing technically incorrect with the name and it describes the item in question, but it's also a convoluted way of doing things. It's also pretty transparent attempt in trying to up the importance of a spade rather than just calling it a spade.
All post-Tolkien fantasy literature works like that, though. "Realmgate" doesn't even register on my trying-too-hard-o-meter.
Krinsath wrote: For me the names are just lazy and neither evocative nor necessary. If I called a spade a "Soilturner of Gardenfield" there is nothing technically incorrect with the name and it describes the item in question, but it's also a convoluted way of doing things. It's also pretty transparent attempt in trying to up the importance of a spade rather than just calling it a spade.
All post-Tolkien fantasy literature works like that, though. "Realmgate" doesn't even register on my trying-too-hard-o-meter.
All the language deconstruction we're seeing here (overly flowery names, names that sound like Watergate, etc) is complete bollocks. Yes your spade is just a spade but equally if you go in a shop you'll see all manner of different names for spades. Things have common names (eg Gate) and specific names with appropriate nomenclature (eg Realmgate) that are used at different times depending on context, audience, etc. Enough of the amateur language analysis already.
JohnnyHell wrote: The best bit about a sundered reality from a business POV is that, once milked dry, you can move the setting on with a reforged New World replacing the Bubbleverse, just as Bubbleverse replaced The Old World. Simples.
Can't we just skip the bubbleverse bit and get our Old World back please?
Sorry that's not what Lord Kirby commanded. Just like Squats, Sisters of battle, Chaos Dwarfs ( okay fw but it's not the same ) and Dogs of war, Necromunda, Gorkamorka and Mordhiem it's gone.
There will be those who put a rod in the gears and prevent movement beyond 8th, and will likely cherrypick back to parts of 7th. Warhammer Fantasy is entering the fringe now, the Age of Stigma is upon us.
Krinsath wrote: For me the names are just lazy and neither evocative nor necessary. If I called a spade a "Soilturner of Gardenfield" there is nothing technically incorrect with the name and it describes the item in question, but it's also a convoluted way of doing things. It's also pretty transparent attempt in trying to up the importance of a spade rather than just calling it a spade. Likely some merit in Realmgate and all the other names attempting to be a IP-protectable rather than just calling it a gate and so forth. Anyone checked if any of those items are registered to GW now? They should get on Sigmarines too, just in case.
That's a very good way of putting it, actually. I hate when someone says something and manages to explain what I'm feeling better than I can. lol
that still doesn't explain why Stormcast Eternals is such an offensive name...
It's not literally offensive to me, I just don't like the name. I only used the word because someone else was accusing people of being "offended" at "realmgates", and I even put the word "offend" in quotes, but you still somehow interpreted that I was deeply bothered by the name. My entire damn point was "I think the name is silly" and that was pretty much it.
On that note, I'm not sure I understand the whole "-gate = scandal" tangent, because it's painfully obvious the realmgates are like stargates. You know, from Stargate. A "magic" portal to another world or dimension, that's what the realmgates sound like and that's essentially what the stargates were.
As for "why" I think the name Stormcast Eternals is silly? Because it sounds silly. It smacks of "We needed something unique that would be a good, defendable IP." The name just doesn't put that feeling of "Oh, that sounds awesome" in me, it doesn't make me want to learn more about the faction or buy the models...literally my first reaction to seeing the official name was to make a face and say "What?"
And let me guess as to why they're called Stormcast Eternals; because these guys are "unleashed upon shafts of magical lightning" onto the battlefield...like a lightning bolt "cast" from a storm...and they're agents of the "God-King" and most likely immortal, hence eternal. Ecch. It's almost as bad as Tempestus Scions, or Astra Militarum, that faux-Latin crap GW came up with because just calling them "stormtroopers" or "Imperial Guard" made it harder to sue people. Same with the "bleakswords" or "dreadspears" for Dark Elves...they didn't need to come up with a fancy name for Dark Elf spearmen, they did it because they think coming up with a goofy name will somehow make their Dark Elf spearmen protectable IP.
"Goretide" for the Khorne force isn't much better, honestly, but you kind of expect that anymore for Chaos. For these guys...I dunno, "Stormcast Eternals" doesn't really seem right for a bunch of golden-armored avenging angels. I'm no game designer and don't get paid to come up with goofy names for units in tabletop games like GW's crew, but why not something a little more "down to earth" like the Vanguard Host, or the Retributors, Nephilim would have been oddly appropriate, I don't fething know, but I feel like almost anything would have been better. Just calling them Vanguard or Nephilim would have been kinda cool, but again, that's too generic and you can't sue people for using those words to name their stuff, then. Like Krinsath also mentioned, it feels like they make the goofy names because they're trying to sell this stuff to a younger market. It feels less like I'm buying models for a tabletop miniature game and more like I'm buying glorified action figures for the names they give some of this crap. And if you actually play the game it's not so easy to ignore, as you'll constantly be having to write "Murderfang" in your list if you want to use the model, and referring to the "proper" name of the unit, wargear, etc. during the game so your opponents know what the hell you're talking about. I guess if you do nothing but paint models the names don't really matter.
I wasn't going to bother responding to you initially, it felt like a waste of time since you apparently like GW's naming conventions and I clearly don't, but there's my attempt at an explanation since you insisted. Not that I feel like I should have to explain. In any case I can't say I really give a crap about Age of Sigmar and will probably take your advice and ignore it. Still curious to see what becomes of WHF, the existing model range and armies people have collected, but I imagine I'm not going to like it.
Amazing! So the entire rule book is only 4 pages!? Interesting! Still not getting the starter, but really looking forward to playing with my Empire and Goblins (and plan to start Undead Legions) with AoS.
Finally some official and comforting news regarding our existing armies :-D
Well, that's new. So the 96-page booklet is just a fluff book and the rules do indeed fit on 4 pages? Ehh...
Also, I'm pretty sure there's no way they're going to fit the rules for every existing Warhammer unit on 4 pages, those rules will probably be coming later if I had to guess. Probably a new wave of army books.
The Khorne Goretide is supposed to be a new army? So is it gonna be like 40k then where Chaos is going to end up being split into a ton of books?
It also does seem like Age of Sigmar is intended to replace Warhammer, judging from that.
That line about all existing models being usable and getting rules is very reassuring. As for this 4 pages of rules, what are we thinking - 4 pages of A2 with .01 font? Or 4 pages of "core rules" with an absolute gakload of supplemental material (which sounds kind of horrible)
•The most awesome Starter Set Games Workshop has ever produced!
•Recreate the first battle in the Age of Sigmar as the Stormcast Eternals battle the Khorne Goretide to open a Realmgate!
•47 incredibly detailed plastic miniatures; 18 Stormcast Eternals and 29 Warriors of Khorne.
•96 page Warhammer Age of Sigmar book and 4 page rules sheet.
•12 dice, 2 range rulers and 2 Transfer Sheets.
•Totally new beginning for Warhammer miniatures.
•The new miniatures in the starter box are some of the best we have ever done, some will slot straight into existing collections, while the new Stormcast Eternals are going to inspire customers to start new armies.
So the Sigmarines are Stormcast Eternals
If this is true, the 96 page rulebook is the important bit.
Actually, the 4 page rulebook is the important bit (as this coincides with the earlier rumor). It's a 96 page "Age of Sigmar book" which says "fluffbook" to me.
Games Workshop is proud to introduce you to Warhammer – The Age of Sigmar. The old Warhammer World is gone. It exploded and now we can only look ahead at what is to come – The Age of Sigmar. Together we are about to explore new realms. Exciting new adventures lay ahead, with brand new miniatures and new scenarios, set in brand new landscapes. We are opening new realms. Let’s embark on the very first battle of this new era.
The old Warhammer World is gone, and so is Warhammer Fantasy. Forget what you know about Warhammer Fantasy, as Warhammer – the Age of Sigmar is nothing like it. We are going to introduce you to a whole new experience. A brand new game with brand loads of new miniatures and brand new rules.
It is different to what you will expect. It is different to what we have done, but it will amaze you and all your customers. Don’t worry. Warhammer Fantasy miniatures stay relevant. Old miniatures can still be used, however how you will play them has changed. Size doesn’t matter anymore. Whether you want to play with 10 or 100 miniatures, it is all possible in Warhammer – The Age of Sigmar.
The change is big, but you and your customers can still use the existing miniatures. On the 4th of July all the new rules will be available digitally on our website for FREE – It will explain to you how the new game works, and how you can use your old miniatures. The rules will be available in many languages (including Dutch). The new rules for each miniature will also be in the newly rebranded boxes.
Square bases and movement trays are gone. The new and rebranded products will now come with oval and round bases. However don’t worry, as you can play the game with any base shape you want. No need to rebase your existing miniatures. Bases are now only used to stand up your miniatures and you can use whatever shape base you like most.
"Don’t worry. Warhammer Fantasy miniatures stay relevant. Old miniatures can still be used, however how you will play them has changed."
"On the 4th of July all the new rules will be available digitally onthe GW website for FREE – It will explain to you how the new game works"
"The new rules for each miniature will also be in the newly rebranded boxes. Square bases and movement trays are gone."
"The new and rebranded products will now come with oval and round bases. However don’t worry, as you can play the game with any base shape"
Games Workshop is proud to introduce you to Warhammer – The Age of Sigmar. The old Warhammer World is gone. It exploded and now we can only look ahead at what is to come – The Age of Sigmar. Together we are about to explore new realms. Exciting new adventures lay ahead, with brand new miniatures and new scenarios, set in brand new landscapes. We are opening new realms. Let’s embark on the very first battle of this new era.
The old Warhammer World is gone, and so is Warhammer Fantasy. Forget what you know about Warhammer Fantasy, as Warhammer – the Age of Sigmar is nothing like it. We are going to introduce you to a whole new experience. A brand new game with brand loads of new miniatures and brand new rules.
It is different to what you will expect. It is different to what we have done, but it will amaze you and all your customers. Don’t worry. Warhammer Fantasy miniatures stay relevant. Old miniatures can still be used, however how you will play them has changed. Size doesn’t matter anymore. Whether you want to play with 10 or 100 miniatures, it is all possible in Warhammer – The Age of Sigmar.
The change is big, but you and your customers can still use the existing miniatures. On the 4th of July all the new rules will be available digitally on our website for FREE – It will explain to you how the new game works, and how you can use your old miniatures. The rules will be available in many languages (including Dutch). The new rules for each miniature will also be in the newly rebranded boxes.
Square bases and movement trays are gone. The new and rebranded products will now come with oval and round bases. However don’t worry, as you can play the game with any base shape you want. No need to rebase your existing miniatures. Bases are now only used to stand up your miniatures and you can use whatever shape base you like most.
We still don't know if those 4 pages are the actual rules, or just the reference sheets in vein of what the older WFB starter sets used to have. Could be either, given the retailer blurb.
Games Workshop is proud to introduce you to Warhammer – The Age of Sigmar. The old Warhammer World is gone. It exploded and now we can only look ahead at what is to come – The Age of Sigmar. Together we are about to explore new realms. Exciting new adventures lay ahead, with brand new miniatures and new scenarios, set in brand new landscapes. We are opening new realms. Let’s embark on the very first battle of this new era.
The old Warhammer World is gone, and so is Warhammer Fantasy. Forget what you know about Warhammer Fantasy, as Warhammer – the Age of Sigmar is nothing like it. We are going to introduce you to a whole new experience. A brand new game with brand loads of new miniatures and brand new rules.
It is different to what you will expect. It is different to what we have done, but it will amaze you and all your customers. Don’t worry. Warhammer Fantasy miniatures stay relevant. Old miniatures can still be used, however how you will play them has changed. Size doesn’t matter anymore. Whether you want to play with 10 or 100 miniatures, it is all possible in Warhammer – The Age of Sigmar.
The change is big, but you and your customers can still use the existing miniatures. On the 4th of July all the new rules will be available digitally on our website for FREE – It will explain to you how the new game works, and how you can use your old miniatures. The rules will be available in many languages (including Dutch). The new rules for each miniature will also be in the newly rebranded boxes.
Square bases and movement trays are gone. The new and rebranded products will now come with oval and round bases. However don’t worry, as you can play the game with any base shape you want. No need to rebase your existing miniatures. Bases are now only used to stand up your miniatures and you can use whatever shape base you like most.
jah-joshua wrote: that still doesn't explain why Stormcast Eternals is such an offensive name...
Names like Stormcast Eternals, Bloodwrack Shrine or Runeclaw Bear follow a common naming convention that feels like a cliche of modern, MMO-type fantasy. They sound like the sort of names you'd see on a leveled encounter table attached to palette swaps - which is fitting, given how much GW likes arbitrary dual-purpose kits these days.
I think these compound neologisms sound daft, like from a generic MMORPG with throwaway lore. However, I imagine the idea is to have them easily google-able, with top results directing to the GW online store (I hestitate to call it a webpage) and Warhammer fan sites.
Call the, *groan*, Stormcast Eternals Nephilim and you get tons of angelology sites, which is not what the company wants, understandably.
Krinsath wrote: For me the names are just lazy and neither evocative nor necessary. If I called a spade a "Soilturner of Gardenfield" there is nothing technically incorrect with the name and it describes the item in question, but it's also a convoluted way of doing things. It's also pretty transparent attempt in trying to up the importance of a spade rather than just calling it a spade. Likely some merit in Realmgate and all the other names attempting to be a IP-protectable rather than just calling it a gate and so forth. Anyone checked if any of those items are registered to GW now? They should get on Sigmarines too, just in case.
That's a very good way of putting it, actually. I hate when someone says something and manages to explain what I'm feeling better than I can. lol
that still doesn't explain why Stormcast Eternals is such an offensive name...
It's not literally offensive to me, I just don't like the name. I only used the word because someone else was accusing people of being "offended" at "realmgates", and I even put the word "offend" in quotes, but you still somehow interpreted that I was deeply bothered by the name. My entire damn point was "I think the name is silly" and that was pretty much it.
On that note, I'm not sure I understand the whole "-gate = scandal" tangent, because it's painfully obvious the realmgates are like stargates. You know, from Stargate. A "magic" portal to another world or dimension, that's what the realmgates sound like and that's essentially what the stargates were.
As for "why" I think the name Stormcast Eternals is silly? Because it sounds silly. It smacks of "We needed something unique that would be a good, defendable IP." The name just doesn't put that feeling of "Oh, that sounds awesome" in me, it doesn't make me want to learn more about the faction or buy the models...literally my first reaction to seeing the official name was to make a face and say "What?"
And let me guess as to why they're called Stormcast Eternals; because these guys are "unleashed upon shafts of magical lightning" onto the battlefield...like a lightning bolt "cast" from a storm...and they're agents of the "God-King" and most likely immortal, hence eternal. Ecch. It's almost as bad as Tempestus Scions, or Astra Militarum, that faux-Latin crap GW came up with because just calling them "stormtroopers" or "Imperial Guard" made it harder to sue people. Same with the "bleakswords" or "dreadspears" for Dark Elves...they didn't need to come up with a fancy name for Dark Elf spearmen, they did it because they think coming up with a goofy name will somehow make their Dark Elf spearmen protectable IP.
"Goretide" for the Khorne force isn't much better, honestly, but you kind of expect that anymore for Chaos. For these guys...I dunno, "Stormcast Eternals" doesn't really seem right for a bunch of golden-armored avenging angels. I'm no game designer and don't get paid to come up with goofy names for units in tabletop games like GW's crew, but why not something a little more "down to earth" like the Vanguard Host, or the Retributors, Nephilim would have been oddly appropriate, I don't fething know, but I feel like almost anything would have been better. Just calling them Vanguard or Nephilim would have been kinda cool, but again, that's too generic and you can't sue people for using those words to name their stuff, then. Like Krinsath also mentioned, it feels like they make the goofy names because they're trying to sell this stuff to a younger market. It feels less like I'm buying models for a tabletop miniature game and more like I'm buying glorified action figures for the names they give some of this crap. And if you actually play the game it's not so easy to ignore, as you'll constantly be having to write "Murderfang" in your list if you want to use the model, and referring to the "proper" name of the unit, wargear, etc. during the game so your opponents know what the hell you're talking about. I guess if you do nothing but paint models the names don't really matter.
I wasn't going to bother responding to you initially, it felt like a waste of time since you apparently like GW's naming conventions and I clearly don't, but there's my attempt at an explanation since you insisted. Not that I feel like I should have to explain. In any case I can't say I really give a crap about Age of Sigmar and will probably take your advice and ignore it. Still curious to see what becomes of WHF, the existing model range and armies people have collected, but I imagine I'm not going to like it.
To be fair to GW if they cant use gate because of stargate, and blizzard and warcraft has had portal in their lore since at least the mid 90s (warcraft 2: beyond the dark portal as an easy example), then they are kind of stuck.
Stormcast eternals to me feels like the name of a smaller group and not a full blown faction, so if it is indeed a skirmish game then i think its a suitable name... if you are comparing it to empire, bretonnia etc tyen it will feel odd.
Well, page wise considering Wrath of Kings is about 10 pages without scenarios and with a bunch of diagrams and photos I could see 4 pages working if there isn't any filler. The old reference cards (I wanna say 7th edition) were 1 page double sided and covered everything but scenarios and special rules. If they are going the datasheet approach special rules and such go in the unit then I can easily see WFB being a 4 page ruleset.
In fact that would be a huge bonus. Rulebook size is a huge barrier to entry alongside price.
Games Workshop is proud to introduce you to Warhammer – The Age of Sigmar. The old Warhammer World is gone. It exploded and now we can only look ahead at what is to come – The Age of Sigmar. Together we are about to explore new realms. Exciting new adventures lay ahead, with brand new miniatures and new scenarios, set in brand new landscapes. We are opening new realms. Let’s embark on the very first battle of this new era.
The old Warhammer World is gone, and so is Warhammer Fantasy. Forget what you know about Warhammer Fantasy, as Warhammer – the Age of Sigmar is nothing like it. We are going to introduce you to a whole new experience. A brand new game with brand loads of new miniatures and brand new rules.
It is different to what you will expect. It is different to what we have done, but it will amaze you and all your customers. Don’t worry. Warhammer Fantasy miniatures stay relevant. Old miniatures can still be used, however how you will play them has changed. Size doesn’t matter anymore. Whether you want to play with 10 or 100 miniatures, it is all possible in Warhammer – The Age of Sigmar.
The change is big, but you and your customers can still use the existing miniatures. On the 4th of July all the new rules will be available digitally on our website for FREE – It will explain to you how the new game works, and how you can use your old miniatures. The rules will be available in many languages (including Dutch). The new rules for each miniature will also be in the newly rebranded boxes.
Square bases and movement trays are gone. The new and rebranded products will now come with oval and round bases. However don’t worry, as you can play the game with any base shape you want. No need to rebase your existing miniatures. Bases are now only used to stand up your miniatures and you can use whatever shape base you like most.
"Don’t worry. Warhammer Fantasy miniatures stay relevant. Old miniatures can still be used, however how you will play them has changed."
"On the 4th of July all the new rules will be available digitally onthe GW website for FREE – It will explain to you how the new game works"
"The new rules for each miniature will also be in the newly rebranded boxes. Square bases and movement trays are gone."
"The new and rebranded products will now come with oval and round bases. However don’t worry, as you can play the game with any base shape"
Really quite interested now in what the rules will be like - fast and simple rules can often mean more time spent playing the game so could be really good......hoping something like Heroscape now.
plus Free download - is GW actually learning stuff!
Interesting. Free rules, however light, is a huge step in the right direction, and releasing them during the pre-order week is cool too; finally a GW game we can actually test before buying into! (unless the rules are crap, in which case it could backfire horribly! )
4 pages for the core rules doesn't sound terrible to me, especially if that rumour a while back about the mechanic all being based on rolling a target number pans out; you can explain that in a paragraph and then just refer to 'Attack/Defence/Courage/Whatever tests' throughout rather than rehashing the same stuff or explaining completely different mechanisms for each action. I'm also pretty certain that won't include the army lists or anything, they'll be separate (and hopefully free as well).
Honestly, I'm getting pretty excited now! Did we get confirmation that there's a free Sigmarine in the next WD yet? I'm itching to get a look at these new minis in the flesh!
4 pages of rules and all rules for existing models for free means there's a good chance I'll try it. However, I don't expect that I'll pick up the starter set.
I think those of us with a GW store nearby are lucky with a release like this. I know I'm going to show up to my GW with a dozen or so models and ask them to demo the game using my existing models if possible. If the rules are that easy, and the game is as fun as they claim (though why would claim otherwise about their own product) then I'll end up subscribing to this new battle system, if not then I ditch AoS.
bbb wrote: 4 pages of rules and all rules for existing models for free means there's a good chance I'll try it. However, I don't expect that I'll pick up the starter set.
This. If they're good, some of my friends might be interested and I'll pick up some boxes of models to play skirmish games with.
CatMines wrote: I think those of us with a GW store nearby are lucky with a release like this. I know I'm going to show up to my GW with a dozen or so models and ask them to demo the game using my existing models if possible. If the rules are that easy, and the game is as fun as they claim (though why would claim otherwise about their own product) then I'll end up subscribing to this new battle system, if not then I ditch AoS.
That's kind of a dick move on the opening weekend and that is coming from a relentless critic of GW. It's the opening weekend and likely the SINGLE employee at the one man store will be stressed enough with a new flagship product without you throwing that in on him on the very day of the release. It is an entirely valid concern though and I absolutely think you should do it... just not on the opening weekend. Go there, get a demo with the already painted sigmarines using the scenario the poor schmuck working there has practiced, download the rules, and see if it is worth you trying to use your existing collection or switch to another game system instead like KOW. If you decide the former, grab your stuff the next weekend and go try out the demo game again with the likely shoehorned in WHFB minis. I'm all for giving GW a waste treatment plant's worth of crap over the stuff they do but it isn't fair to dump it on the minimum wage guy at the demo table whose job likely depends on selling X starters that weekend.
4 pages can work, there are plenty of game systems out there that work just fine with that or less. Obviously a lot of fine detail for specific unit types will have to be culled, and that doesn't have to be a bad thing.
Of course, I fully expect them to add stuff back in over time, just as with any other game that has had a full reset. The point of streamlining isn't to remove complexity, it's to make room for adding new types of complexity without overloading the players.
Rick_1138 wrote: So going by the above, can we all stop worrying\arguing about the death of fantasy.
The reports of all fantasy lines dying have been unfounded it seems.
I for one am looking forward to next week I am off the week of the 20th of July so will have a good build and playtest session.
In order for there to be a "totally new beginning" for AOS, there has to be a "totally definitive end" to WHFB (see End Times). I agree we can all stop worrying/arguing about the death of fantasy as the above (if actually from GW) spells out that death in no uncertain terms. Now, the question of whether it is possible it to use your WHFB minis with AOS is a related but separate question that is also answered in that flyer (apparently, yes, you can). A third question is whether or not it is worth it to use a variety of 28mm to 32mm heroic scaled figs in an more (35mm?) out of scale follow up separate game. I guess we'll see the responses to that last question next week when the free rules are posted and people start putting up pics of various WHFB minis side by side with the sigmarines and khorneflakes.
rohdester wrote: Would GW release a retail blurb with a spelling mistake?
Next to last bullet has "amd" instead of "and".
Have you read GW products before? Typos and nonsensical rules aren't exactly rare unfortunately. I'm surprised that over the years no one accidentally put out a flyer for Warhamer.
CatMines wrote: I think those of us with a GW store nearby are lucky with a release like this. I know I'm going to show up to my GW with a dozen or so models and ask them to demo the game using my existing models if possible. If the rules are that easy, and the game is as fun as they claim (though why would claim otherwise about their own product) then I'll end up subscribing to this new battle system, if not then I ditch AoS.
That's kind of a dick move on the opening weekend and that is coming from a relentless critic of GW. It's the opening weekend and likely the SINGLE employee at the one man store will be stressed enough with a new flagship product without you throwing that in on him on the very day of the release. It is an entirely valid concern though and I absolutely think you should do it... just not on the opening weekend. Go there, get a demo with the already painted sigmarines using the scenario the poor schmuck working there has practiced, download the rules, and see if it is worth you trying to use your existing collection or switch to another game system instead like KOW. If you decide the former, grab your stuff the next weekend and go try out the demo game again with the likely shoehorned in WHFB minis. I'm all for giving GW a waste treatment plant's worth of crap over the stuff they do but it isn't fair to dump it on the minimum wage guy at the demo table whose job likely depends on selling X starters that weekend.
I agree. I never said I would show up opening weekend.The few times I've been there midday on a weekday they manager has had nothing to do but harass me, so I figure I'll actually give him something to talk to me about for once.
rohdester wrote: Would GW release a retail blurb with a spelling mistake?
Next to last bullet has "amd" instead of "and".
Have you read GW products before? Typos and nonsensical rules aren't exactly rare unfortunately. I'm surprised that over the years no one accidentally put out a flyer for Warhamer.
I believe the current Lizardmen book at one point actually says "(see page xx)".
rohdester wrote: Would GW release a retail blurb with a spelling mistake?
Next to last bullet has "amd" instead of "and".
Have you read GW products before? Typos and nonsensical rules aren't exactly rare unfortunately. I'm surprised that over the years no one accidentally put out a flyer for Warhamer.
I believe the current Lizardmen book at one point actually says "(see page xx)".
rohdester wrote: Would GW release a retail blurb with a spelling mistake?
Next to last bullet has "amd" instead of "and".
Have you read GW products before? Typos and nonsensical rules aren't exactly rare unfortunately. I'm surprised that over the years no one accidentally put out a flyer for Warhamer.
I believe the current Lizardmen book at one point actually says "(see page xx)".
Personally I have fond memories of "The squad may be an Aspiring Champion at +13 pts" in the 3.5 CSM Codex. And that one schlub who actually insisted on playing it RAW.
I'm pretty excited about this now - I had been on the fence but actually it sounds pretty good. And you know what, as long as individual units and armies still have plenty of variation and additional rules / special abilities then I don't mind a 4-page core rule book...... Best of all if we can download the rules on release day that would be ace.... Looking forward to this now...
rohdester wrote: Would GW release a retail blurb with a spelling mistake?
Next to last bullet has "amd" instead of "and".
Have you read GW products before? Typos and nonsensical rules aren't exactly rare unfortunately. I'm surprised that over the years no one accidentally put out a flyer for Warhamer.
I believe the current Lizardmen book at one point actually says "(see page xx)".
Personally I have fond memories of "The squad may be an Aspiring Champion at +13 pts" in the 3.5 CSM Codex. And that one schlub who actually insisted on playing it RAW.
I really hope he transformed the entire squad into a single Aspiring Champion...anything less would be RAI!
Perhaps the 'to succeed stats' and moral rumours were true. That way you remove whole tables as the power of a unit is in the stats that come with the models. Helps bring the thing down to 4... 4 pages or 4 sheets?
i.e. rather than WS/BS being a number it'd be the success; 5+, 4+.
Pepticsalve wrote: I'm pretty excited about this now - I had been on the fence but actually it sounds pretty good. And you know what, as long as individual units and armies still have plenty of variation and additional rules / special abilities then I don't mind a 4-page core rule book...... Best of all if we can download the rules on release day that would be ace.... Looking forward to this now...
Yeah, I'm mildly looking forward to it now - interested in seeing what it is.
lord_blackfang wrote: Seems like a good spot to point out that Mantic has announced they will release tournament-legal Kings of War lists for all GW Fantasy factions.
That will be awesome, but how long until they recieve a cease and desist order.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The models look awesome, just not interested in a skirmish game. Space Marines in fantasy
lord_blackfang wrote: Seems like a good spot to point out that Mantic has announced they will release tournament-legal Kings of War lists for all GW Fantasy factions.
That will be awesome, but how long until they recieve a cease and desist order.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The models look awesome, just not interested in a skirmish game. Space Marines in fantasy
Never. The CHS court case cleared up that malarkey.
Here's a few examples of GW games condensed to 2 pages + army lists. Admittedly, they assume a degree of familiarity with the full game, but hey, you have 2 spare pages to cover that!
Totally - I'm looking forward to destroying sigmarine armies any opportunity I get ;-)
What I do hope they keep is proper list building and unit / model points costs, with upgrades etc. Its fun tweaking an army list....
If they go the route of timed releases for 'non-core' and armies are built within factions then that would bring variations within itself.
Perhaps at first there'll be less options within an actual unit to prevent rules bloat before they even start. We'll soon see!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote: Here's a few examples of GW games condensed to 2 pages + army lists. Admittedly, they assume a degree of familiarity with the full game, but hey, you have 2 spare pages to cover that!
The more I think about it the more I like the idea of a compact rule set. So many games have dense rule books which can really break up the flow of a game. This could be really good......
number9dream wrote: To be fair to GW if they cant use gate because of stargate, and blizzard and warcraft has had portal in their lore since at least the mid 90s (warcraft 2: beyond the dark portal as an easy example), then they are kind of stuck.
Honestly I don't even care that much about the "realmgates", other than as I said before it kinda confirms the bubbleverse rumor and implies the gates link the worlds together, though that isn't really proven yet. I'm basically just giving GW gak because they're overly litigious IP bullies and claimed in a court of law that they don't take inspiration from anyone and come up with everything themselves with no outside influence whatsoever, not even references.
So it's funny to me to blatantly lie like that, since it's no secret that GW steals from everyone anyway, and then in their "new" lore for their replacement Warhammer game they basically just stuck stargates in there.
Free rules sounds kind of dubious to me. I mean it's GW, who I'm surprised haven't started charging for FAQ's and Errata yet (guess they'd have to make some first), so putting anything up for free immediately has me wondering what the catch is. I doubt it's the full rules, either that or the free rules they're uploading are for all the old models to tide people over until new $60 army books start coming out.
rohdester wrote: Would GW release a retail blurb with a spelling mistake?
Next to last bullet has "amd" instead of "and".
GW releases actual product full of typos and mistakes...so yes.
What are the transfers for? I thought the detail on the shields was sculpted on, but that's the only thing I can think of that you'd need transfers for.
jah-joshua wrote: i just don't get why people would let themselves get so worked up over some fiction, and the names of imaginary things and characters...
For some folks, it's not about the actual details so much as the company that created those details.
Personally, I think AoS seems to be at least an attempt to address many common complaints about WFB, including high model counts, stale fluff, lack of a good starter army, too much grim dark, etc.
If you're a vet who only wanted 9th edition to be a steadfast tweak and some magic fixes, then this probably isn't what you're looking for. But it sounds as though you'll still be able to play the new game with some or all of your existing models.
"The new rules for each miniature will also be in the newly rebranded boxes"
Awesome. Between this and free rules, it's like they finally understand.
I still have no plans to buy the starter (unless a friend talks me into splitting it... he wants the Sigmarines), but I'm feeling better about the new game now.
I was told by a good source that their will be 4 armybooks coming out in the future.(this im very solid on)
Not quite sure about this one but since gods are a huge part of AOS now that what you can bring in your army is dependent on which god your army follows. Salt this one but it sounds plausable
rohdester wrote: Would GW release a retail blurb with a spelling mistake?
Next to last bullet has "amd" instead of "and".
GW releases actual product full of typos and mistakes...so yes.
What are the transfers for? I thought the detail on the shields was sculpted on, but that's the only thing I can think of that you'd need transfers for.
The standards, maybe?
Looking at the pictures--I think it's for the "runic scrollwork" on the Eternals. They've done similar for the Skitarii/Cult Mechanicus stuff by having little strips of cogs that you cut to place around hoods and the hems of the robes.
jah-joshua wrote: i just don't get why people would let themselves get so worked up over some fiction, and the names of imaginary things and characters...
For some folks, it's not about the actual details so much as the company that created those details.
Personally, I think AoS seems to be at least an attempt to address many common complaints about WFB, including high model counts, stale fluff, lack of a good starter army, too much grim dark, etc.
If you're a vet who only wanted 9th edition to be a steadfast tweak and some magic fixes, then this probably isn't what you're looking for. But it sounds as though you'll still be able to play the new game with some or all of your existing models.
I have a feeling tournaments will, for the near future, continue to run 8th edition fantasy events. AOS cannot replace the massed battles, not yet anyway.
I was told by a good source that their will be 4 armybooks coming out in the future.(this im very solid on)
Not quite sure about this one but since gods are a huge part of AOS now that what you can bring in your army is dependent on which god your army follows. Salt this one but it sounds plausable
Good - Chaos - Destruction - Death. Would those be the four?
Most probably a lot of the rumors are true, but reflect on different things:
1) There is a full rule book, this is the 96 pager.
2) There are 4 pages of rules. These are just for the forces in AoS. They use rolls vs looking up stats because you are using a defined set of figures in the box, and assume you are fighting that one scenario.
3) All models on round bases, because that's what comes in AoS, but base type won't matter.
I'll know in an hour, hopefully...... time for coffee, aspirin, my high blood pressure meds......
It never ceases to amaze me how these threads always follow the same pattern.
First, the speculation. Then the fear due to lack of info. Then rage as frustration sets in at lack of info. Then info, and the sky falls in. Then more info, and everybody wants to marry Tom Kirby
This weekend, it'll be sky falling in again when people try the demo game. Then the game will be broken, and so on...
Anyway, back OT.
I don't why people are excited at the idea of using as many models as you want. You could always do that anyway.
As for the 4 page rulebook. Is this going to end up like 40k? Don't people have to own loads of different codexes and supplements? Must be a pain carting all those books around.
I was told by a good source that their will be 4 armybooks coming out in the future.(this im very solid on)
Not quite sure about this one but since gods are a huge part of AOS now that what you can bring in your army is dependent on which god your army follows. Salt this one but it sounds plausable
Good - Chaos - Destruction - Death. Would those be the four?
pretty much. I heard order, disorder, chaos, undead. So yeah
Automatically Appended Next Post:
mikhaila wrote: Most probably a lot of the rumors are true, but reflect on different things:
1) There is a full rule book, this is the 96 pager.
2) There are 4 pages of rules. These are just for the forces in AoS. They use rolls vs looking up stats because you are using a defined set of figures in the box, and assume you are fighting that one scenario.
3) All models on round bases, because that's what comes in AoS, but base type won't matter.
I'll know in an hour, hopefully...... time for coffee, aspirin, my high blood pressure meds......
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: It never ceases to amaze me how these threads always follow the same pattern.
First, the speculation. Then the fear due to lack of info. Then rage as frustration sets in at lack of info. Then info, and the sky falls in. Then more info, and everybody wants to marry Tom Kirby
This weekend, it'll be sky falling in again when people try the demo game. Then the game will be broken, and so on...
migooo wrote: I want to not be skeptical, I want to not be bitter
but transfers in a box like this. ?
AoBR had transfers in it.
So did Stormclaw, in fact the Stormclaw transfers have not been released outside of that box.
Stormclaw was boxset, not a starter set like AoBR.
And yet, GW themselves referred to it as a "starter set" at times--given that it included the "Stormclaw" scenario rules(something critical to a starter set) and a mini-rulebook.
The only thing that really was divergent from traditional starter sets was the lack of templates, dice, and rulers.
migooo wrote: I want to not be skeptical, I want to not be bitter
but transfers in a box like this. ?
AoBR had transfers in it.
So did Stormclaw, in fact the Stormclaw transfers have not been released outside of that box.
Stormclaw was boxset, not a starter set like AoBR.
And yet, GW themselves referred to it as a "starter set" at times--given that it included the "Stormclaw" scenario rules(something critical to a starter set) and a mini-rulebook.
The only thing that really was divergent from traditional starter sets was the lack of templates, dice, and rulers.
I kind of agree since it had the full rulebook that it would be more of a starter set as some kid could pull it off the shelf and play. Sure there were no rulers, dice, or templates but really who uses just the 7 dice you get in the starter along with the whippy sticks? Almost everyone buys more dice and a tape measure. The templates is a different story but I myself have like 10 sets so I have no issues giving people sets for the hell of it.
So this 4 page ruleset will be available digitally for free....now that can't be the full rulebook. Its just for AoS set. Then they will charge $185 for a rulebook haha
chiefbigredman wrote: So this 4 page ruleset will be available digitally for free....now that can't be the full rulebook. Its just for AoS set. Then they will charge $185 for a rulebook haha
From what im hearing the first big book will have base lists, background and maybe a bit of expanded rules for armies, but the base rules are suposedly those 4 pages
I was told by a good source that their will be 4 armybooks coming out in the future.(this im very solid on)
Not quite sure about this one but since gods are a huge part of AOS now that what you can bring in your army is dependent on which god your army follows. Salt this one but it sounds plausable
Good - Chaos - Destruction - Death. Would those be the four?
pretty much. I heard order, disorder, chaos, undead. So yeah
That makes sense. That way you can buy new forces without being 'bound' to a particular race. So if I like some new Orcs/Orks I can add them to a few Skaven models I think look neat and run them (both Destruction/Disorder). Like it's come full circle.
Today info from my FLGS 4 page rules they are similar to the reference sheet of DV In the 96 page book come with scenarios for learn to play with examples and lots of fluff for age of sigmar and the two army's (Stormcast Eternals & Khorne Goretide)
WARHAMMER AGE OF SIGMAR: BATTLE FOR THE GATES OF AZYR (ENGLISH) Format Starter Set Box Order From 4-Jul-15 Release Date 11-Jul-15
from marcu beli (spanish)
NOVEDADES AGE OF SIGMAR.
Os comunico las novedades del nuevo juego de Games Workshop. Son oficiales puesto que me las ha comunicado directamente mi comercial de Games Workshop. Para empezar quiero aclarar que será un juego nuevo, completamente nuevo, nada que ver con Warhammer Fantasy así que podemos casi asegurar que Warhammer Fantasy ha acabado tal y como lo conocemos, al menos por ahora.
--- REGLAMENTO ---
- El reglamento es muy escueto y sencillo (aunque no simple), con muy pocas páginas y reglas especiales, con lo que buscan que esté lo más equilibrado posible.
- El reglamento será completamente gratuito y de descarga. Incluirá una serie de fichas para que puedas adaptar TODAS tus miniaturas de Fantasy a Age of Sigmar. Esto significa que NO saldrá a la venta ningún libro básico ni nada por el estilo.
--- EL JUEGO ---
- La idea del juego es jugar con uno o varios héroes junto con su séquito en una serie de misiones distintas que pueden ser estilo escaramuza o batalla.
- Los ejércitos pueden ser de incluso unas 5 miniaturas con lo que el gasto inicial puede ser ridículamente bajo para alguien que empieza a jugar. Esto incluye a los que siempre hemos querido tener un ejército de skavens pero nos daba mucho palo pintar 5 mil ratas o simplemente no teníamos suficiente dinero Emoticono grin Ahora con pocas miniaturas te apañas y no hace falta que uses 30 iguales para montar una unidad.
- Podremos mezclar razas sin casi ninguna restricción. Sobre esto habrá siempre el típico nostálgico fanboy que verá aberraciones en mezclar orcos con skavens pero en la práctica puede ser muy divertido y GW ha hecho mucho incapié en que las reglas de cada miniatura están muy equilibradas precisamente para evitar combinaciones cataclísmicas.
- Las peanas son redondas pero se puede jugar con peanas triangulares si se quiere, ya que la peana no tiene ninguna interferencia con las reglas sino que es simplemente para aguantar la miniatura Emoticono grin
--- ¿QUÉ VIENE EN LA CAJA? ---
- Ya habéis visto las miniaturas filtradas en muchas webs. Esas son oficialmente las que vendrán en la caja: 47 modelos divididos en dos facciones, la luz y el caos.
- Incluye el manual en papel, con algunas páginas extras de trasfondo y guías de pintura.
- El precio de la caja es de 100€, unos 2€ por miniatura y alguna es bastante tocha.
- La escala de las miniaturas es la misma.
--- ¿Y LUEGO QUÉ? ---
- Seguirán sacando miniaturas nuevas de cada raza, todas con sus propias reglas que en principio seguirán saliendo de forma gratuita ya sea mediante White Dwarf o descarga en pdf.
- Previsiblemente sacarán también otras cajas con misiones y nuevo trasfondo para seguir la nueva historia de Age of Sigmar.
I communicate the news of the new game from Games Workshop. They are official since me has directly communicated my business from Games Workshop. For starters I want to clarify that will be a new game, completely new, nothing to do with Warhammer Fantasy so we can almost ensure that Warhammer Fantasy has ended as we know it, at least for now.
--- --- REGULATION
- The regulation is very short and simple (but not easy), with very few pages and special rules, which seek to be as balanced as possible.
- The regulation will be completely free and download. It will include a series of tabs so you can adapt all your miniatures of Fantasy Age of Sigmar. This means that there will be released any basic book or anything like that.
--- THE GAME ---
- The idea of the game is to play with one or more heroes along with his entourage in a number of different missions that can be skirmish or battle style.
- Armies can be about 5 thumbnails even so the initial outlay can be ridiculously low for someone to start playing. This includes those who have always wanted to have an army of Skaven but gave us much stick painting 5000 rats or simply did not have enough money Emoticon with few miniatures grin Now you Apanás and do not have to use 30 equal to mount a drive.
- We can mix breeds with hardly any restrictions. On this there will always be nostalgic fanboy typical aberrations that will mix with orcs skaven but in practice can be fun and GW has done much stress upon the rules of each model are balanced very precisely to avoid cataclysmic combinations.
- The bases are round but you can play with triangular bases if you will, as the base does not have any interference with the rules but simply to hold the miniature grin Emoticon
--- WHAT COMES IN THE BOX? ---
- You have seen the thumbnails filtered on many websites. Those are officially those to come in the box: 47 models divided into two factions, light and chaos.
- Includes manual on paper, with some extra pages of background and painting guides.
- The price of the box is € 100, € about 2 per model and some is quite tocha.
- The scale of the models is the same.
--- AND THEN WHAT? ---
- Will you continue taking new models of each race, all with their own rules which in principle keep coming for free either by White Dwarf or download in pdf.
- Predictably also draw other boxes with new missions and new background story to follow the Age of Sigmar.
Personally, I think AoS seems to be at least an attempt to address many common complaints about WFB, including high model counts, stale fluff, lack of a good starter army, too much grim dark, etc.
I was told by a good source that their will be 4 armybooks coming out in the future.(this im very solid on)
Not quite sure about this one but since gods are a huge part of AOS now that what you can bring in your army is dependent on which god your army follows. Salt this one but it sounds plausable
Good - Chaos - Destruction - Death. Would those be the four?
pretty much. I heard order, disorder, chaos, undead. So yeah
That makes sense. That way you can buy new forces without being 'bound' to a particular race. So if I like some new Orcs/Orks I can add them to a few Skaven models I think look neat and run them (both Destruction/Disorder). Like it's come full circle.
it makes sense to me as well being how 40k went with all the supplemental codices. With 4 books you pay out the ass for then smaller faction books. Examples like cult of khaine. Sounds like a gw thing to do. Charge us $100 for each army book then 40(or more) for each supplement
I, for one, realy like the sigmarites. I will miss the old, but can still play it. But I will buy the new and at least try it out. If the rules suck, I can still use the miniatures to make an epic diorama as a tribute to the End of a glorious era of Warhammer...
it makes sense to me as well being how 40k went with all the supplemental codices. With 4 books you pay out the ass for then smaller faction books. Examples like cult of khaine. Sounds like a gw thing to do. Charge us $100 for each army book then 40(or more) for each supplement
These rumours suggest the rules will be in the boxes/WD. So I don't expect to see a flurry of codexes. A rulebook per faction with core units and fluff would make sense. Then rules in the box for timed releases so they don't hog shelf space. Sell 'em for six months and then swap them for new units.
it makes sense to me as well being how 40k went with all the supplemental codices. With 4 books you pay out the ass for then smaller faction books. Examples like cult of khaine. Sounds like a gw thing to do. Charge us $100 for each army book then 40(or more) for each supplement
These rumours suggest the rules will be in the boxes/WD. So I don't expect to see a flurry of codexes. A rulebook per faction with core units and fluff would make sense. Then rules in the box for timed releases so they don't hog shelf space. Sell 'em for six months and then swap them for new units.
Oh, sure, the rules for individual models might well come in the boxes.
But you're forgetting the free buffs that come from fielding a certain combination of miniatures. They will be selling us books full of those.
jah-joshua wrote: i just don't get why people would let themselves get so worked up over some fiction, and the names of imaginary things and characters...
For some folks, it's not about the actual details so much as the company that created those details.
Personally, I think AoS seems to be at least an attempt to address many common complaints about WFB, including high model counts, stale fluff, lack of a good starter army, too much grim dark, etc.
If you're a vet who only wanted 9th edition to be a steadfast tweak and some magic fixes, then this probably isn't what you're looking for. But it sounds as though you'll still be able to play the new game with some or all of your existing models.
Where exactly are the bolded complaints "common"? High model counts, sure, lack of an easy entry point, certainly, prices of some boxes, absolutely, but outside of the same handful of people here on Dakka I've never once heard or read anyone asking GW to obliterate the existing setting or complain that it was too gritty. Indeed, quite the reverse; when I did see people wishing the fluff would advance it was exactly because they were fond of the Warhammer World, it's factions, and its characters and wanted to see them evolve a little, and when issues were mentioned regarding the grimness of the aesthetic or fluff it was usually to lament the recent trend in cartoonifying the models and making the background less about grim struggle and more about all-conquering super-awesumz mega-heros.
If the rules actually are free I'll have a go and see what they're like, but if they're good and you really can keep using the existing models it will only serve to reinforce how daft GW were to cack all over their existing IP when they could have achieved the same result without alienating a lot of folk.
ShaneTB wrote: GW stores will be demoing the game on Saturday.
I may have to drive the hour to my nearest store to see what's up. I'll read the rules when they go up online, and see what I can do with my skaven, but I'm not really holding my breath on this one. If they're really trying to town down the game's complexity (and the rules weighing in at 4 pages says, to me at least, that they are), I'm not certain how well legacy armies will transition or even be supported going forward.
Id love to see "nature" as a faction. Wood elves, beast men (perhaps a bit more satyr like), lots of monsters, ogres?.
(speaking of what they become, not how they used to be.)
Or is it to close to hordes/warmachine?
ShaneTB wrote: GW stores will be demoing the game on Saturday.
Love to know how they're planning on doing this across the pond. Aren't all the shops closed on that particular day?
There might be some open but it's a national holiday and I doubt many people spend the biggest BBQ of the year sitting in a game store....at least I never have.
So I don't know if anyone else has heard the same, but the guy at my FLGS told me that he'd had an email from GW saying that on the 4th July, when all the Age of Sigmar stuff goes up for pre-order, the rules and the army books will all go up for download, free of charge (and as a result the box set doesn't contain a rulebook).
An interesting move from GW, and I do question it from a business point of view, but if it's a quality ruleset it may pay off in the long term. I'm also very glad about it as I can look through the rules without committing to buy anything. If I don't like it, I can stick with 8th and no harm done. If I do, then I can maybe looking into buying or converting some Age of Sigmar stuff.
I will be in store on both the 4th and the 11th. But due to work I will only have a couple of hours tops each day...
I will buy one starter and try it out. If I like it, I am bound to find additions on ebay when half the world is selling halves or even whole starters!
So, just got off the phone with my GW rep. They are really going big on this one. I've been offered quite a few nice incentives to support the launch, and will be receiving free copies of the box, demo armies, credit on old product, posters, prizes, etc. Thursday I'll receive a full copy of the rules with i will take home and eat with ketchup and spend a day digesting. Nice incentives across the board for retailers that take a bunch of them, support the launch, (and are currently paying their bills, of course.)
Info I was told:
-It's not 9th edition WFB, its a totally different game. There is no 9th edition coming. There is no huge rule book coming. Age of Sigmar is the main product.
-Most of the leaks on the internet are wrong. I'll be able to confirm this Thursday. In particular the bit about different formations is incorrect.
-The 96 page book is a hobby book, painting, history, how to play examples etc. The 4 pages of rules is indeed the rules. Laminated.
-Each unit in the game has a War Scroll that has the rules specific to that unit. So rules for each artillery piece will be on that unit's scroll, each monster will have a scroll, etc.
-The 4 pages of rules and all War Scrolls will be free and online July 4th at midnight. This will be a living document.
lets say that again, since some of the words like "free" may seem surprising to some folks
-The 4 pages of rules and all War Scrolls will be free and online July 4th at midnight. This will be a living document[u]
-Cost is 125.00 in the US
-There may be additional books in the near future, hobbyist/collectors items. Not at all needed for the game, and may not even have the rules in the them. Age of Sigmar: The Big Book of pictures and how to paint....etc. There is no HC big rulebook like we had in WFB, no 3 rule books in a slipcover like in 40k. Just the Age of Sigmar box. And the rules for that box are online and free along with rules for all the old models in your army.
-Supposedly doesn't matter how things are based.
-Scales well from skirmish to large battles. Leave your models ranked and on bases if you like.
Wow, huge step forward. I can only hope that this is resoundingly successful and 40k fallows suit. A free, living document on a less bloated 40k is exactly what is needed at this point. Really excited for this now.
While these models in this particular box aren't aren't my cup of tea. I sincerely hope the game is fun and the rest of the line appeals to me. If these "free" rumours are correct and assuming GW don't flub the rest of this release, this is a great opportunity for us to show the company that this is indeed the way to go forward, not just with AoS but 40k, too (I mean more fluid, community inclusive products, not a simplified reboot of what works - 40k works imo, WFB didn't.).
Did they happen to say what the war scrolls actuly are?
Cards or a full page sorta thing ?
Sounds like they are at least looking to try some new stuff.
But interest here has been whole negative so I don't think I will be getting anything unless the rules are great.
mikhaila wrote: So, just got off the phone with my GW rep. They are really going big on this one.
Thanks for passing on the info. So do those incentives mean you too will be going really big on this one as well despite the existing event that day? I'm going to guess yes (why say no to free stuff as long as you have the staff?) but figured I'd ask.
mikhaila wrote: So, just got off the phone with my GW rep. They are really going big on this one.
Spoiler:
I've been offered quite a few nice incentives to support the launch, and will be receiving free copies of the box, demo armies, credit on old product, posters, prizes, etc. Thursday I'll receive a full copy of the rules with i will take home and eat with ketchup and spend a day digesting. Nice incentives across the board for retailers that take a bunch of them, support the launch, (and are currently paying their bills, of course.)
Info I was told:
-It's not 9th edition WFB, its a totally different game. There is no 9th edition coming. There is no huge rule book coming. Age of Sigmar is the main product.
-Most of the leaks on the internet are wrong. I'll be able to confirm this Thursday. In particular the bit about different formations is incorrect.
-The 96 page book is a hobby book, painting, history, how to play examples etc. The 4 pages of rules is indeed the rules. Laminated.
-Each unit in the game has a War Scroll that has the rules specific to that unit. So rules for each artillery piece will be on that unit's scroll, each monster will have a scroll, etc.
-The 4 pages of rules and all War Scrolls will be free and online July 4th at midnight. This will be a living document.
lets say that again, since some of the words like "free" may seem surprising to some folks
-The 4 pages of rules and all War Scrolls will be free and online July 4th at midnight. This will be a living document[u]
-Cost is 125.00 in the US
-There may be additional books in the near future, hobbyist/collectors items. Not at all needed for the game, and may not even have the rules in the them. Age of Sigmar: The Big Book of pictures and how to paint....etc. There is no HC big rulebook like we had in WFB, no 3 rule books in a slipcover like in 40k. Just the Age of Sigmar box. And the rules for that box are online and free along with rules for all the old models in your army.
-Supposedly doesn't matter how things are based.
-Scales well from skirmish to large battles. Leave your models ranked and on bases if you like.
Flashman wrote: Hmm... so you don't actually need the starter box to play then?
I'm very intrigued how they will get the rules onto 4 pages. Even straight forward games like X-Wing have longer rule books than that.
Sounds like the rulebook will be extremely bare bones: how to move, how to fight, possibly how to do morale. Things like Special Rules (e.g., unbreakable, regeneration, flaming attacks, etc.) will probably be on the unit cards themselves.
Guess we'll see. It's nice I'll be able to look at the rules without having to buy the box set though.
Im really hoping we get nice cards like Warmachine gives there players. The paper rules that came with all the Endtimes models was horrible.. I dont want to lug those around...
No information makes planning suck.
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