I didn't state that the rules were the only thing that was important! I agree the look of the miniatures, terrain etc. are a fundamental component of the experience.
But, without a fun game to play that's well designed you'll soon start looking beyond the pretty miniatures and just get annoyed with the function of the game.
Case in point: Sedition Wars and Dreadfleet,
Likewise if you dont like the miniatures, which many dont, it doesnt matter if the rules are good or not either since the miniatures are the main driving force in a miniatures wargame, as if they werent we wouldnt be using them, which is my point.
So saying wait to see if you like the rules first to those who dislike the miniatures is pointless
Arbitrator wrote: I guess I shouldn't be surprised that almost every person with a smug post about how they're happy with the look and that the complainers are 'wrong' has a space marine avatar and/or user title.
It's who GW are aiming for so it's basically a win I guess?
Arbitrator wrote: I guess I shouldn't be surprised that almost every person with a smug post about how they're happy with the look and that the complainers are 'wrong' has a space marine avatar and/or user title.
I feel like this is probably aimed at me, but I never said people were wrong to dislike them, just that people saying the Fantasy aesthetic has gone are overreacting. Chaos looks basically the same as it did, and the new faction looks different. We haven't seen anything else new to say that the old fantasy aesthetic has gone.
Also I'm still not seeing the Space Marine, past that they're both vaguely knight like in plate armour. They look like Sanguinary Guard in that they're both in gold armour with sculpted breastplates and face masks, but it doesn't then follow that they look like all space marines. I can see a very vague similarity if you squint, and that's all.
Arbitrator wrote: I guess I shouldn't be surprised that almost every person with a smug post about how they're happy with the look and that the complainers are 'wrong' has a space marine avatar and/or user title.
I feel like this is probably aimed at me, but I never said people were wrong to dislike them, just that people saying the Fantasy aesthetic has gone are overreacting. Chaos looks basically the same as it did, and the new faction looks different. We haven't seen anything else new to say that the old fantasy aesthetic has gone.
Also I'm still not seeing the Space Marine, past that they're both vaguely knight like in plate armour. They look like Sanguinary Guard in that they're both in gold armour with sculpted breastplates and face masks, but it doesn't then follow that they look like all space marines. I can see a very vague similarity if you squint, and that's all.
I don't blame people for thinking they're space marines. I thought the same when I first seen the pics. I had too look twice.
They are meant to look like Space Marines in my opinion. They share obvious similarities with the MKI Thunder Warriors. Most striking the thunder bolt motif.
Not saying they are the same universe, but WHFB and 40k have always had lots of shared content, obviously chaos, and now the "Thunder Warrior" is also a shared theme.
I am curious to see how the rules work out as well as better pics, however on what i see I am not thrilled by the blood angels Sang Guard in the game... Space Wolves would have been better ....
Really though, I dont like what i am seeing so far from what i can see so I am trying to be positive however, in light of recent 40k codex releases I am not sure that i will pursue this game further unless the rules are really good and i can use my minis w/o rebasing etc.
I truly and honestly don't see any similarity to Space Marines. Might as well say that anyone wearing full plate in any setting ever looks like a Space Marine.
Of course, half of Dakka thinks that everything painted blue looks like a Space Marine, so I guess it's par for the course.
Chaos stuff looks great.
Most definitely less convinced about the new faction.
If they are stand alone as a new faction aesthetic I'd be ok but if this is a new shift for the rest of the Warhammer world, Im worried.
Lizardmen, Skaven, even Gws take on Dwarfs had a unique and quite pleasing look to them. Worried that will all be thrown out for some very OTT and semi-futuristic theme :(
lord_blackfang wrote: I truly and honestly don't see any similarity to Space Marines.
C'mon, really? Fully armoured, big pauldrons, the way the legs, torsos and heads are. You don't see ---any--- similarity? You expect any of us to believe that?
Ratius wrote: Chaos stuff looks great.
Most definitely less convinced about the new faction.
If they are stand alone as a new faction aesthetic I'd be ok but if this is a new shift for the rest of the Warhammer world, Im worried.
Lizardmen, Skaven, even Gws take on Dwarfs had a unique and quite pleasing look to them. Worried that will all be thrown out for some very OTT and semi-futuristic theme :(
I think Lizardmen and Skaven are probably unique enough they might not be too different. Warhammer Dwarfs were pretty generic fantasy dwarfs though...
Oh agreed the Dwarfs were fairly generic but things like the ironbreakers, their warmachines and thanes did have a nice look/feel to them imo. Im just concerned GW does something pretty OTT to them. Like giant dwarf exo suit armor or something!
The Sigmarites look awful. Exactly what I expected, honestly. Fantasy Space Marines indeed.
I'm still hoping we get a decently playable game with model counts in the 2nd edition 40k/Warmachine numbers. If we get that, and Undead is still a faction you can play, I'll happily dig out my Vampire Counts and rebase a bunch to play.
If they're going for even bigger games like some other rumours suggested... pass.
judgedoug wrote: Man. It looks like they've chosen to completely abandon the 30-year old aesthetic that made Warhammer such a unique universe.
Warhammer is now Flash Gordon shoved through a He-Man filter.
Barf.
Warhammer battle was the epitome of generic and boring fantasy, there was nothing unique in it, as far as high fantasy goes, there is other games that does it, better and cheaper.
Warhammer battle had nothing unique.
Boring for you maybe.
Nothing unique, not really. The elements were shamelesly ripped off but GW used to rip off with style and the end result was that beautiful late medieval esque world where teethless bums try to kill you for coins every 5 meters, rats form regular armies and toads are top tier magicians.
The new shiny Age of Nigmos will be just as ripped off btw, this time though the sources will be, oh irony, the cartoonish and Americanised warhammer ripoffs themselves. A full circle so to speak.
Surprised nobody is commenting on that photoshopped image of a silver paintjob instead of gold. They look MUCH better that way, and don't look a thing like Sang Guard. Once again, models suffer out the gate from "GW painting team is now comprised of colorblind idiots".
My stance on the new edition is still wait and see, I have no plans to start the new Empire "space marine" faction; As I didn't buy into 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons when it came out.
The company made a choice to go in one direction to add new players; but will it counter balance the amount of old players they are loosing.
I maybe getting older but even the new generation of video game systems have not made me want to buy the new Xbox one or PS4; I am happy with playing what I already currently have,
This goes with my current Warhammer, If I don't like what they have done with the new edition, I am happy with what I already own and will continue to play it even though Game Workshop will no longer support it.
But after seeing the pictures and its 40k based miniatures in Warhammer and hearing the rules overly simplified like Lord of the rings game; Makes me want to consider other things; There is to much competition for my dollars for them to think players will just except what they are doing and just buy it. They needed a entry level gate way game at a low price point to bring in new players; Not make space marines for Warhammer that is just pulling money from another section of your business.
timetowaste85 wrote: Surprised nobody is commenting on that photoshopped image of a silver paintjob instead of gold. They look MUCH better that way, and don't look a thing like Sang Guard. Once again, models suffer out the gate from "GW painting team is now comprised of colorblind idiots".
Genoside07 wrote: My stance on the new edition is still wait and see, I have no plans to start the new Empire "space marine" faction; As I didn't buy into 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons when it came out.
The company made a choice to go in one direction to add new players; but will it counter balance the amount of old players they are loosing.
I maybe getting older but even the new generation of video game systems have not made me want to buy the new Xbox one or PS4; I am happy with playing what I already currently have,
This goes with my current Warhammer, If I don't like what they have done with the new edition, I am happy with what I already own and will continue to play it even though Game Workshop will no longer support it.
But after seeing the pictures and its 40k based miniatures in Warhammer and hearing the rules overly simplified like Lord of the rings game; Makes me want to consider other things; There is to much competition for my dollars for them to think players will just except what they are doing and just buy it. They needed a entry level gate way game at a low price point to bring in new players; Not make space marines for Warhammer that is just pulling money from another section of your business.
I think it's more a realization that their customer base has shrunk to the point where they either draw in 40K players to play fantasy or just toss the WHFB in the bin and call themselves Game Workshop because they'll functionally be down to one game (LoTR might as well be tossed out as well).
That is a really hard view to take. So your basically saying suck it up?
Yes things change but it's not always a good thing. Sometimes it is people evolve and opinions change but honestly WHF is not the powerhouse it once was. GW need to realize it. 're release Morhiem and Necromunda.
Pretty much. One can also quit playing WHFB. Those are, in the end, your only two choices.
Third is to randomly vent on the internet while riding the doomgloom bandwagon, but that really does nothing for a person in the end. WHFB was a poor game in it's latest stage, and it already had a run of over 20 years.
Agree on the Mordheim and Necromunda, I would buy the gak out of those. Bloodbowl too.
As for the people who on a serious level think that GW has based the launch of a new entire game and it sales on designing miniatures to look like space marines - ridiculous. The designers would laugh at you so hard. Yeah, they got pauldrons. Other than that it's armoured men.
Genoside07 wrote: My stance on the new edition is still wait and see, I have no plans to start the new Empire "space marine" faction; As I didn't buy into 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons when it came out.
The company made a choice to go in one direction to add new players; but will it counter balance the amount of old players they are loosing.
I maybe getting older but even the new generation of video game systems have not made me want to buy the new Xbox one or PS4; I am happy with playing what I already currently have,
This goes with my current Warhammer, If I don't like what they have done with the new edition, I am happy with what I already own and will continue to play it even though Game Workshop will no longer support it.
But after seeing the pictures and its 40k based miniatures in Warhammer and hearing the rules overly simplified like Lord of the rings game; Makes me want to consider other things; There is to much competition for my dollars for them to think players will just except what they are doing and just buy it. They needed a entry level gate way game at a low price point to bring in new players; Not make space marines for Warhammer that is just pulling money from another section of your business.
I think it's more a realization that their customer base has shrunk to the point where they either draw in 40K players to play fantasy or just toss the WHFB in the bin and call themselves Game Workshop because they'll functionally be down to one game (LoTR might as well be tossed out as well).
It does feel really sad that they felt the bes/only way to save WHFB was to draw in their Space Marines customer base so that they could play equivalent factions in two different games. Seems strange hearing people say "now I can get into WHFB"- was all that was holding them back was having the same army to play again?
This may be a smart move on GW's part as far as creating a bit of a revival, but I don't see it as something that would fix what I feel is really hurting both WHFBand40k- continuous up-scaling of the game, combined with a bloating rule set, which has been hurting the ability of new players to enter the games. Although perhaps the rule set will be a bit cleaned up...but still, the talk of even *more* massive battles really make me think their plan was just to move all the models to round bases, rather than control game size.
Ratius wrote: Chaos stuff looks great.
Most definitely less convinced about the new faction.
If they are stand alone as a new faction aesthetic I'd be ok but if this is a new shift for the rest of the Warhammer world, Im worried.
Lizardmen, Skaven, even Gws take on Dwarfs had a unique and quite pleasing look to them. Worried that will all be thrown out for some very OTT and semi-futuristic theme :(
I think Lizardmen and Skaven are probably unique enough they might not be too different. Warhammer Dwarfs were pretty generic fantasy dwarfs though...
I'm most worried about what will happen with the elves. If humans now look like space marines does this mean elves are going to look like eldar? I hope not, for one thing I really enjoy painting scale mail armour - and no one does scale mail better than the elves... I'd hope even if the elf factions get an update that their figures are broadly similar to what we already have (scale mail, robes, long hair, elegant and curvy weapons... I'd also like to see a lot more female elves, especially in the rank and file troops - if there is such a thing in the new sigmar edition...)
It does feel really sad that they felt the bes/only way to save WHFB was to draw in their Space Marines customer base so that They could play equivalent factions in two different games.
Do none of you realize that there is no actual evidence of anything like this ( next to the idea being completely ridiculous? ) Basing the success of a product on one faction of another game?
You can't be serious.
You all just presume this is the case, while in reality the designers were probably given a task of creating angelic warriors, and this is what they came up with without any thought of "let's make space marines to lure players yo" -in their head. Such a silly idea. The image of management and designers meeting and going "let's make them resemble space marines, that's the best way to sell an entire new game into which we've poured hundreds of thousands of dollars if not more, not to mention the countless hours and employees working on it" ( which is what you just said on point ) is just unfathomably dumb.
Bottle wrote: They are meant to look like Space Marines in my opinion. They share obvious similarities with the MKI Thunder Warriors. Most striking the thunder bolt motif.
Not saying they are the same universe, but WHFB and 40k have always had lots of shared content, obviously chaos, and now the "Thunder Warrior" is also a shared theme.
That, and Custodians. Converting those is about to become a whole lot easier by the looks of it.
I honestly believe that GW did the right thing when deciding to reboot WHFB.
- It needed a lower entry (cash/time) to attract new players
- It needed simpler rules and faster gameplay.
... and I have been playing WHFB for many years using only round bases (and modified/recasted LOTR movement trays).
However, removing the amazing fluff base (ze Old World) and now totally destroying the visual appeal of the game (adding SigMarines and adding yet more unnatural Catachan-esque muscles to the Chaos guys) was, atleast for me, a wrong turn.
I was planning to buy the starter - but cannot find a single miniature that I like/need - and I collect (besides my Dark Elves) Empire and Chaos (having a Marauder army). Was therefore hoping for Witch Hunters, ordinary citizens amd more skinny Marauder types, something more similar to the warriors in the new Mad Max movie.
Also, IMHO, the coolest things in WHFB and 40K is having real people (Empire, Imperial Guard, etc.) fight against impossible odds, not fielding an faceless, über-army of identical, unkillable heroes in +1 armour against some chaos cult.
Not wanting any of the miniatures I will just have to wait until the rules (hopefully good) is released separately.
It does feel really sad that they felt the bes/only way to save WHFB was to draw in their Space Marines customer base so that They could play equivalent factions in two different games.
Do none of you realize that there is no actual evidence of anything like this ( next to the idea being completely ridiculous? )
You all just presume this is the case, while in reality the designers were probably given a task of creating angelic warriors, and this is what they came up with without any thought of "let's make space marines to lure players yo" -in their head. Such a silly idea.
And what grand knowledge do you have that this isn't the case? I remember you telling us before how you had secret knowledge about GW's financials and how they were turning around, so I'd like to hear what happened with that. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence saying that Space Marines alone outstrip all of fantasy- why would GW not try to captalize on this by creating an equivalent in their dying game?
EDIT: oh good, now you're calling everyone dumb. You *clearly* have no good argument in this matter if that's what you're resorting to.
Only a few more days to know if this will grow into a mass battle regiment game or if the loose formations and downsized units will be the way forward.
Style wise I think Im on the safe zone with my O&G because they always have been a bit crazy and goofy, same goes with OTT nurgle.. I don't think they can screw them that much ( if I cant use the glotkin I will convert it to a big nurgle demon). Must say that metal sigmarites look a lot better than their gold versions but still not my cup of tea.
Its important that the game is appealing because both game and miniatures go hand to hand together, assuming that the full 9th version rulebook is coming in later on, I do not support the idea of a small 3 page skirmish game as a starter. Its a pointless exercise if you do not collect those 2 armies.
I like chaos but not the new light faction and I do not want a 3 page rulebook, so this is heading to a pass since the only thing there that I could buy are the marauders ( and for those Im looking at RBG miniatures instead).
Point is if this is going to be skirmish sized game other companies supply individual characters with quite interesting designs so the monopoly of buying plastic boxes with plenty of minis from GW is totally gone if they go this route. There is really no need for it. Also metal miniatures are the best thing for skirmish IMO. I can see full metal armies done with other companies miniatures.
Lots of questions where this is heading but like a big percentage of rumour mongers these days, that sate the obvious, I can use my magic ball and say that 32mm bases will be one of GW best sellers!
It does feel really sad that they felt the bes/only way to save WHFB was to draw in their Space Marines customer base so that They could play equivalent factions in two different games.
Do none of you realize that there is no actual evidence of anything like this ( next to the idea being completely ridiculous? )
You all just presume this is the case, while in reality the designers were probably given a task of creating angelic warriors, and this is what they came up with without any thought of "let's make space marines to lure players yo" -in their head. Such a silly idea.
And what grand knowledge do you have that this isn't the case? I remember you telling us before how you had secret knowledge about GW's financials and how they were turning around, so I'd like to hear what happened with that. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence saying that Space Marines alone outstrip all of fantasy- why would GW not try to captalize on this by creating an equivalent in their dying game?
It's a completely new game for crying out loud. And yeah that, that was just to troll a few overzealous people for the giggles.
And I have no knowledge. However I have common sense.
EDIT: oh good, now you're calling everyone dumb. You *clearly* have no good argument in this matter if that's what you're resorting to.
Nice strawman there. I said it's dumb to presume a company thinks the best/only way to ensure success for a completely new game ( including rules, factions, campaigns and everything that goes with it - the game, that is ) is to make one faction look like Space Marines. It really is just absurd and ridiculous.
Realize the creation of the game has taken immense resources, manpower and hours. Base it's success on making one faction, or atleast some of their units, be armoured men that some think are Space Marines? Get real.
Whatever, you keep throwing a temper tantrum that people think these look like Space Marines and guess what- they're still going to think that. Nothing I say is going to change their minds either. GW thought this would be the best course of action to save their game, I don't really feel that will be the case. You very clearly feel the opposite, so let's drop it. And maybe you should just try posting thoughts/evidence without trolling people?
lord_blackfang wrote: I truly and honestly don't see any similarity to Space Marines.
C'mon, really? Fully armoured, big pauldrons, the way the legs, torsos and heads are. You don't see ---any--- similarity? You expect any of us to believe that?
Yeah, I am completely serious in saying that I don't think wearing full plate makes someone a Space Marine. Might as well complain about these
Accolade wrote: Whatever, you keep throwing a temper tantrum that people think these look like Space Marines and guess what- they're still going to think that. Nothing I say is going to change their minds either. GW thought this would be the best course of action to save their game, I don't really feel that will be the case. You very clearly feel the opposite, so let's drop it. And maybe you should just try posting thoughts/evidence without trolling people?
Go check the date on said trolling - it was over 7 months ago, and on a few folks that are 110% negative, and their main action on the forum is to spread and enforce said negativity. I am not trolling you but posting thoughts. As I mentioned before, I have no evidence of GW NOT basing the launch of an entire game and everything related on making a few units/a single faction resemble Space Marines. I already stated I merely think it's an unfhatomably unrealistic idea. You have an odd habit of telling someone what they are doing. I'm not throwing a temper tantrum, and I never denied that they resemble Space Marines. I was talking about another thing completely, a thing you said: Basing the whole games success on said detail.
I honestly believe that GW did the right thing when deciding to reboot WHFB.
- It needed a lower entry (cash/time) to attract new players
- It needed simpler rules and faster gameplay.
... and I have been playing WHFB for many years using only round bases (and modified/recasted LOTR movement trays).
However, removing the amazing fluff base (ze Old World) and now totally destroying the visual appeal of the game (adding SigMarines and adding yet more unnatural Catachan-esque muscles to the Chaos guys) was, atleast for me, a wrong turn.
I was planning to buy the starter - but cannot find a single miniature that I like/need - and I collect (besides my Dark Elves) Empire and Chaos (having a Marauder army). Was therefore hoping for Witch Hunters, ordinary citizens amd more skinny Marauder types, something more similar to the warriors in the new Mad Max movie.
Also, IMHO, the coolest things in WHFB and 40K is having real people (Empire, Imperial Guard, etc.) fight against impossible odds, not fielding an faceless, über-army of identical, unkillable heroes in +1 armour against some chaos cult.
Not wanting any of the miniatures I will just have to wait until the rules (hopefully good) is released separately.
Accolade wrote: Whatever, you keep throwing a temper tantrum that people think these look like Space Marines and guess what- they're still going to think that. Nothing I say is going to change their minds either. GW thought this would be the best course of action to save their game, I don't really feel that will be the case. You very clearly feel the opposite, so let's drop it. And maybe you should just try posting thoughts/evidence without trolling people?
Go check the date on said trolling - it was over 7 months ago, and on a few folks that are 110% negative, and their main action on the forum is to spread and enforce said negativity. I am not trolling you but posting thoughts. As I mentioned before, I have no evidence of GW NOT basing the launch of an entire game and everything related on making a few units/a single faction resemble Space Marines. I already stated I merely think it's an unfhatomably unrealistic idea. You have an odd habit of telling someone what they are doing. I'm not throwing a temper tantrum, and I never denied that they resemble Space Marines. I was talking about another thing completely, a thing you said: Basing the whole games success on said detail.
It doesn't matter that it was seven months ago (although good you finally admitted it), it's about the type of poster you are that you would feel the need to troll people when posting isn't going the way you feel it should. Same thing with all of the above stuff- being needlessly hostile because a lot of people are saying "yay more Space Marines!"
All I posted was some of my thoughts on what I thought GW's plan was, same as I've ever posted my thoughts on what GW's financial issues are. I'm not always right, but then that's not the point of discussion boards. I didn't end my post with "time to burn GW's stores to the ground," I said "time will tell." I still feel that these new guys, combined with a smaller rule set, are GW's plan to save Fantasy. But I don't think they'll be able to hold to that, the fluff comments of "even MORE massive battles to come!" make me think GW hasn't really figured out what is wrong with Fantasy, and is just trying to pump in more lifeblood through this technique.
Accolade wrote: It doesn't matter that it was seven months ago (although good you finally admitted it), it's about the type of poster you are that you would feel the need to troll people when posting isn't going the way you feel it should. Same thing with all of the above stuff- being needlessly hostile because a lot of people are saying "yay more Space Marines!"
All I posted was some of my thoughts on what I thought GW's plan was, same as I've ever posted my thoughts on what GW's financial issues are. I'm not always right, but then that's not the point of discussion boards. I didn't end my post with "time to burn GW's stores to the ground," I said "time will tell." I still feel that these new guys, combined with a smaller rule set, are GW's plan to save Fantasy. But I don't think they'll be able to hold to that, the fluff comments of "even MORE massive battles to come!" make me think GW hasn't really figured out what is wrong with Fantasy, and is just trying to pump in more lifeblood through this technique.
Yeah, I have trolled some folks 7 months ago and in a way that hurt no ones feelings ( unless they were emotionally invested in GW's financial reports ) who themselves were being toxic, negative, offensive. Whatever will we do. Sorry but that moralization has no effect whatsoever, there's hundreds of people doing worse things on these boards on a daily basis. Next to that I haven't been hostile towards people who think the miniatures look like Space Marines, that one you made up. I said the idea you had is ridiculous, that is all. No need to make a big deal out of it, really.
What you wrote now makes a whole lot more sense, than "the only/best way to save the game is to make one factions dudes look like Space Marines" - perhaps you didn't mean it quite exactly like that, then. I do not mean to be offensive towards you either. Perhaps my writing is just blunt, no harm intended.
Breaking these guys down aesthetically, heres what I think
The boots look a bit off to me, cant quite place it but they look too big?
Legs/kneepads look ok to be fair
I dont like the chest armor but do like the waist parchments hanging off them
Shields are cool
Axs not as much - a bit meh
Shoulder pads look ok
The helmets are decent except for the halo thing but Im sure you could hack that off.
That is a really hard view to take. So your basically saying suck it up?
Yes things change but it's not always a good thing. Sometimes it is people evolve and opinions change but honestly WHF is not the powerhouse it once was. GW need to realize it. 're release Morhiem and Necromunda.
Pretty much. One can also quit playing WHFB. Those are, in the end, your only two choices.
Third is to randomly vent on the internet while riding the doomgloom bandwagon, but that really does nothing for a person in the end. WHFB was a poor game in it's latest stage, and it already had a run of over 20 years.
Agree on the Mordheim and Necromunda, I would buy the gak out of those. Bloodbowl too.
As for the people who on a serious level think that GW has based the launch of a new entire game and it sales on designing miniatures to look like space marines - ridiculous. The designers would laugh at you so hard. Yeah, they got pauldrons. Other than that it's armoured men.
So let's take for example the Whisper Bar it was stopped and a Bubbly bar was released instead.
In the end people requested enough it was brought back so no dude there's no suck it up or quit you fight for something you like.
Maybe you can't see the similarity but I do it's like a blood angel captain got himself a cloning machine.
So if something has a 20 year run scrap it right? That's the kinda idiotic reasons that 4th ed d&d was the abomination it turned out to be.
So ill be fighting thanks if you choose not to that's really up to you.
They could have kept the game and stream line it. It's just like 2nd Ed 40k to 3rd but on steroids.
I think they're hammers, not axes. My only complaint is the helmets that resemble Blood Angels Death Masks, the only thing that in my opinion makes them resemble Space Marines, and not just warriors in full fantasy styled plate you see in every other game.
The boots look a bit off to me, cant quite place it but they look too big?
Legs/kneepads look ok to be fair
I dont like the chest armor but do like the waist parchments hanging off them
Shields are cool
Axs not as much - a bit meh
Shoulder pads look ok
The helmets are decent except for the halo thing but Im sure you could hack that off.
Actually, if you chopped the hammers off and replaced them with huge, wide bladed swords, they'd look like the paladin Knights from Warcraft 2&3. And blizzard modeled off of GW. So...full circle, I guess?
NAVARRO wrote: Only a few more days to know if this will grow into a mass battle regiment game or if the loose formations and downsized units will be the way forward.
Style wise I think Im on the safe zone with my O&G because they always have been a bit crazy and goofy, same goes with OTT nurgle.. I don't think they can screw them that much ( if I cant use the glotkin I will convert it to a big nurgle demon). Must say that metal sigmarites look a lot better than their gold versions but still not my cup of tea.
Its important that the game is appealing because both game and miniatures go hand to hand together, assuming that the full 9th version rulebook is coming in later on, I do not support the idea of a small 3 page skirmish game as a starter. Its a pointless exercise if you do not collect those 2 armies.
I like chaos but not the new light faction and I do not want a 3 page rulebook, so this is heading to a pass since the only thing there that I could buy are the marauders ( and for those Im looking at RBG miniatures instead).
Point is if this is going to be skirmish sized game other companies supply individual characters with quite interesting designs so the monopoly of buying plastic boxes with plenty of minis from GW is totally gone if they go this route. There is really no need for it. Also metal miniatures are the best thing for skirmish IMO. I can see full metal armies done with other companies miniatures.
Lots of questions where this is heading but like a big percentage of rumour mongers these days, that sate the obvious, I can use my magic ball and say that 32mm bases will be one of GW best sellers!
Yes the lack of rulebook puts me at a dilemma too. This starter will have only as much appeal to the veteran as any given battalion box. (I.e only good if you want to start those armies). I do want the set as the models looks very nice imo (especially the chaos). But it means I would then have an Empire, Goblins, Dwarves, Khorne and Sigmarines armies... Not sure I need 5 armies haha
timetowaste85 wrote: Actually, if you chopped the hammers off and replaced them with huge, wide bladed swords, they'd look like the paladin Knights from Warcraft 2&3. And blizzard modeled off of GW. So...full circle, I guess?
Maybe GW has finally realized that this stuff is all derivative after the CHS court case, and therefore they don't really have to be worried about being sued themselves?
NAVARRO wrote: Only a few more days to know if this will grow into a mass battle regiment game or if the loose formations and downsized units will be the way forward.
Style wise I think Im on the safe zone with my O&G because they always have been a bit crazy and goofy, same goes with OTT nurgle.. I don't think they can screw them that much ( if I cant use the glotkin I will convert it to a big nurgle demon). Must say that metal sigmarites look a lot better than their gold versions but still not my cup of tea.
Its important that the game is appealing because both game and miniatures go hand to hand together, assuming that the full 9th version rulebook is coming in later on, I do not support the idea of a small 3 page skirmish game as a starter. Its a pointless exercise if you do not collect those 2 armies.
I like chaos but not the new light faction and I do not want a 3 page rulebook, so this is heading to a pass since the only thing there that I could buy are the marauders ( and for those Im looking at RBG miniatures instead).
Point is if this is going to be skirmish sized game other companies supply individual characters with quite interesting designs so the monopoly of buying plastic boxes with plenty of minis from GW is totally gone if they go this route. There is really no need for it. Also metal miniatures are the best thing for skirmish IMO. I can see full metal armies done with other companies miniatures.
Lots of questions where this is heading but like a big percentage of rumour mongers these days, that sate the obvious, I can use my magic ball and say that 32mm bases will be one of GW best sellers!
Yes the lack of rulebook puts me at a dilemma too. This starter will have only as much appeal to the veteran as any given battalion box. (I.e only good if you want to start those armies). I do want the set as the models looks very nice imo (especially the chaos). But it means I would then have an Empire, Goblins, Dwarves, Khorne and Sigmarines armies... Not sure I need 5 armies haha
Well if this box represents something like 1/2 of what you will need for a full army then multiple armies are now a reality If its more like 1/10th then not so much.
The footprint of those loose formations is much larger than any rank&file regiments so I will take a wild guess and say that this represents a big chunk of your armies ( specially if they are elite armies).
Im on the fence here so I will wait to see how this unfolds, I can rebase all my armies, it sucks but its doable. I will not do that if this turns out to be just a skirmish version of the 9th and the actual full edition uses squared ones...
timetowaste85 wrote: Actually, if you chopped the hammers off and replaced them with huge, wide bladed swords, they'd look like the paladin Knights from Warcraft 2&3. And blizzard modeled off of GW. So...full circle, I guess?
If we're going there, then this would be a bit more accurate:
So, lurking a while.
Thought about all the aesthetics and some good suggestions have been made.
But how about this as a design-key?
The movie IMMORTALS.
Gods riding beams of light from heaven to earth...?
ALSO - - -
If AoS is the Intro game to the new world of Warhammer, than:
- Sigmar as the God, along with his Demi-God henchmen, are attempting to re-enter/re-create the Mortal Realm.
- So the setting is NOT the new world to be, but the PROLOGUE to what will come.
- For the fluff, these Forces of Light will resurrect/reconstitute all of the other races.
- If this is a reboot of the Warhammer world, than that makes sense to me.
- My HOPE is that this plays sort of like an Oldhammer REALM OF CHAOS game, with a champion and henchmen... Except the Prize is entering the Mortal Realms instead of Realms of Chaos...
The RULES and GAMEPLAY can be TWO levels. Skirmish and Mass. It is just that this first game is focused on Skirmish.
But ultimately if the existing armies are still ok (as we keep hearing), than MASS must be on the horizon in SOME form.
And really, why would GW from a financial standpoint, really want to discourage people from purchasing large units and armies...? As dwindling a customer base as that MIGHT be, it is still an audience to concern yourself with.
Bottle wrote:I can understand if people don't like the Sigmarines, but the Chaos too? They retain the current aesthetic but with much more modern designs and very dynamic sculpts. What's not to like? :-)
Just that, I suppose.
Not to say that Warhammer was never weird or wacky, but as people have said, it was it was the gloomy mundanity of Warhammer that drew them in. A bunch of normal guys with halberds and a cannon trying to ward off the horde of weirdos with their dragon. A setting where the wackiness was largely tongue-in-cheek and the weird guys like chaos warriors were defined by their weirdness (and it was weird. I've had a look at one of the old Realms of Chaos books, and the thing that strikes you about, say, the illustrations around the mutation tables is that these are drawn like normal people with horrifying disfigurements, not... what I'm about to describe. Hang on.) as opposed to being made humdrum and generic because of it.
Because it's not so much 'weird' these days anyway, especially with this ninth leak, but over the top. That 'badass, wikkid' aesthetic that seems to have bled through so much pop culture in tabletop games like Warmachine and Malifaux, video games like WoW and Darksiders, so many comics since the late eighties... The look where the guys may have more muscles popping than the Hulk on steroids, when they're not a tiny head peering out of an enormous suit of armour that likely has pauldrons like bathtubs, with little awareness of how it actually fits, stays on, or is able to be lugged about... Where the women are often almost the opposite, where the only 'muscles' that matter are on the front, and the ideal, the challenge, seems to be how little armour you can put on 'em compared to the guys. Where swords are like surfboards and axe blades like coffee tables, and the only way it seems they can be made more 'badass' and 'effective' is the degree to which it looks like they were designed by MC Escher. Where the bad guys are only distinguishable from the good guys (if such exist) because they're not gold, or otherwise brightly coloured; they glower even more; and probably have more spikez and skullz jutting out of them someplace. Where you can tell the good quality of the art style from the number of pointy angles and downright weird proportions they crammed in. It's like Rob Liefeld finally ascended to become the fifth Chaos god of XXX-TREME and his followers have taken up his old cause of wonky anatomy, unworkable armour, and deeply goofy weaponry.
You can have all that. Just have it... over there.
And it's no great comfort to some, to see swathes of WFB slowly follow after that whole, general style, and seemingly finally pop into it with these sigmarines and khorne gym-bunnies, and leave the more... subdued, 'realistic' fantasy aesthetic a bit poorer. Maybe, like people have been saying, the design of the other factions will not be so extreme; but with all signs pointing to the sigmarines as the poster boys of this new game, trying to capture the success of space marines, I think this is what we can expect.
nudibranch wrote:This whole 'sky is falling' attitude is confusing to me when, unless your are playing the new fellows, nothing has changed to your models.
Something has changed to the rules and background, though...
zacharia wrote:
Likewise if you dont like the miniatures, which many dont, it doesnt matter if the rules are good or not either since the miniatures are the main driving force in a miniatures wargame, as if they werent we wouldnt be using them, which is my point.
Not really. That's largely an idea fostered by the likes of GW and others, who have intertwined minis and rules, with each having to sell the other. There are other rulesets out there that have no attached mini ranges by design, or have no 'official' minis available any longer, that are quite well written, well regarded, and popular. They don't have the sheer publicity of GW, and you're not going to get many games of them if your style is pickup games in a GW store, but they're there.
lord_blackfang wrote:I truly and honestly don't see any similarity to Space Marines. Might as well say that anyone wearing full plate in any setting ever looks like a Space Marine.
One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong. Can you tell which thing is not like the others, by the time I finish my song?
Accolade wrote:
It does feel really sad that they felt the bes/only way to save WHFB was to draw in their Space Marines customer base so that they could play equivalent factions in two different games. Seems strange hearing people say "now I can get into WHFB"- was all that was holding them back was having the same army to play again?
This may be a smart move on GW's part as far as creating a bit of a revival, but I don't see it as something that would fix what I feel is really hurting both WHFBand40k- continuous up-scaling of the game, combined with a bloating rule set, which has been hurting the ability of new players to enter the games. Although perhaps the rule set will be a bit cleaned up...but still, the talk of even *more* massive battles really make me think their plan was just to move all the models to round bases, rather than control game size.
I feel your pain.
Runic wrote:
Do none of you realize that there is no actual evidence of anything like this ( next to the idea being completely ridiculous? ) Basing the success of a product on one faction of another game?
The faction that apparently outsells everything else, by itself? Replicated in a game that was apparently on it's last legs?
You all just presume this is the case, while in reality the designers were probably given a task of creating angelic warriors, and this is what they came up with without any thought of "let's make space marines to lure players yo" -in their head. Such a silly idea.
The Space Marines that apparently lure players in and outsell everything else, yadda yadda yadda?
Preposterous.
The image of management and designers meeting and going "let's make them resemble space marines, that's the best way to sell an entire new game into which we've poured hundreds of thousands of dollars if not more, not to mention the countless hours and employees working on it" ( which is what you just said on point ) is just unfathomably dumb.
lord_blackfang wrote: I truly and honestly don't see any similarity to Space Marines.
C'mon, really? Fully armoured, big pauldrons, the way the legs, torsos and heads are. You don't see ---any--- similarity? You expect any of us to believe that?
Of course. They're a completely original idea, just like everything GW makes. They're not self-derivative at all. Nope.
One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong. Can you tell which thing is not like the others, by the time I finish my song?
Oh, I see it now. They're painted gold. That makes them the same sculpts as that one Blood Angel unit.
lord_blackfang wrote: I truly and honestly don't see any similarity to Space Marines.
C'mon, really? Fully armoured, big pauldrons, the way the legs, torsos and heads are. You don't see ---any--- similarity? You expect any of us to believe that?
Of course. They're a completely original idea, just like everything GW makes. They're not self-derivative at all. Nope.
You honestly think they don't look like SMs, and think Sword Knights (of all things. If you're going to pick a WMH unit in powered armour you've got the Stormblades right there. In the same faction.) do, then I don't know what to say.
Giant pauldrons, unrealistic elephant like leg armour, the proportions - it's all incredibly space mariney, and I think on purpose! How obtuse can people get.
These models look fantastic, and like someone had mentioned earlier, just because someone is wearing full plate does not make them look automatically like spacemarines. Fantasy is a completely over arching theme of creativity, and from what I see here in this release, I can say that the dark, grim, look of these models looks very unique.
Also, this thread really has gotten a touch silly. I get that people are passionate. I get that people disagree. But there's a point where point and counter-point devolves into just throwing words at one another on the internet for the sake of it. And then there's just trying to punch one another in the dick with magnetic ink.
Obviously I'm biased, but I see it like this:
"Wow! These models are great! Can't wait until they're released!"
"Oh, no, I really don't like that look. Looks silly to me. I'm going to pass."
"Why are you being negative? Stop nerdraging!"
"The huge suits of armour on these heroic superhuman warriors (long rumoured as 'fantasy space marines') look too much like the space marine aesthetic for my view of WFB."
"They look nothing like space marines!"
"Hee hee! Those angel guys look like the ones Mantic made!"
"GW didn't steal them, y'know!"
"Yeah, but, I was just saying, armoured angels..."
"Mantic stole their stuff too! And they're gak!"
"I don't really want to play ninth ed. I guess I'll just shelve or sell my armies."
"Well hang on! Here are some options you might like to check out, before you do."
"Keep your dirty non-GW games out of my GW thread!"
Not to dictate or guarantee, but if some people could just realise that other people will not like these models or what they represent for Warhammer, and that GW does not exist in a vacuum, I think things could be a bit calmer.
As an added bonus, I'd be a lot quieter.
No, no, I totally get it. I just have a lower threshold of "This isn't going anywhere, not going to yield anything" than some / most i guess.
The other problem is that you can't have a discussion about the game, where its going, what we hope for, without it devolving into absolutist on either side of the argument, pro or con. Which is wearisome ... i'd like to say after a while, but it get's old quick.
Frankly i just want the fething game to drop / release so we can return to our regularly scheduled people that play the game talking about it for the most part, and move on.
Edit: oi. Catching up on the last four pages of this thread just reinforces my second and third sentences above.
There's opinion, and then there's saying that models with
Giant pauldrons, unrealistic elephant like leg armour, the proportions
from a company with an existing giant-pauldroned elephant-leg-armoured particularly-proportioned bestselling faction for one game, put in a sister game that desperately needs a shot in the arm, and highly regarded by people for the giant-pauldroned elephant-legged bits they can nick for their space marines, has nothing whatsoever to do with space marines.
Hordes as a skirmish game based around a badazz wizard or two and a handful of big, smashy models? Nothing to do with the success of Warmachine.
Corvus Belli's realistic historical ranges shut down in favour of concentrating on more slick, highly stylised armour? Nothing to do with the success of Infinity.
Heck - Epic, BFG, Mordheim etc. 'killed' because of the view that they just weren't shifting enough product for comfort, and but still apparently cannibalising sales from the ranges that were, so that GW could concentrate on more space marines? Nothing to do with space marines.
The other problem is that you can't have a discussion about the game, where its going, what we hope for, without it devolving into absolutist on either side of the argument, pro or con. Which is wearisome ... i'd like to say after a while, but it get's old quick.
Frankly i just want the fething game to drop / release so we can return to our regularly scheduled people that play the game talking about it for the most part, and move on.
Edit: oi. Catching up on the last four pages of this thread just reinforces my second and third sentences above.
You're right. I know I'm stuck in the middle of it, but you're right.
I think the thing I find just sad is that GW managed to put a skull on every base to make it clear that these are their models.
Yea, I am just going to stick with Teutogen Guard for guys in armor wielding hammers that look much better even if they don't got shields because if we like our models we can keep them. Right, GW?
Games Workshop continues to demonstrate the uniqueness of their IP by emulating the visual aesthetic of others. The Sigmarites are very world of warcraft with the giant shoulder pads and embellished armour.
Outside of the shoulder pads I think they're decent models.
I suppose we could turn the old "if all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" into "if all you know is 40k, every model looks like a Space Marine"
Their legs are pretty much identical to the ones on the Cygnar guys I posted, apart from being a bit worse proportioned. They have nothing in common with Space Marine legs. I nfact they have nothing in common with any part of a Space Marine except that they both wear full body armour (which consists of leg, torso, arms, pauldrons and helmet - just like on a Space Marine! and that one Space Marine unit in the whole game also has sculpted abs.
Goldshield wrote: I think the thing I find just sad is that GW managed to put a skull on every base to make it clear that these are their models.
Yea, I am just going to stick with Teutogen Guard for guys in armor wielding hammers that look much better even if they don't got shields because if we like our models we can keep them. Right, GW?
Actually, you pointed this out made me realize these guys have a Chaplain (top right), equipped with a skull helmet and all!
These models look fantastic, and like someone had mentioned earlier, just because someone is wearing full plate does not make them look automatically like spacemarines.
No one is saying that except for people like YOU who disagree that they look like space marines at all. Fantasy has always had knights in full plate and no one in this thread accused them of being space marines so your "point" is invalid since no one is arguing against it. People are saying that THESE models look like space marines for a variety of reasons including the STYLE of their full plate, not simply that they're wearing full plate. I know it is easier to refute a point that no one is making but it really is taking the low road to do that instead of responding to what people are actually saying.
Seriously we get it now. Some people think they look like Space Marines. Some don't. Neither side is going to convince the other so let's just give it a rest now.
It's like the Mechanicus walker looking like South Park all over again.
It is not just full plate. Have a look at MK1 Thunder Armor, as I found on the gallery here :
It even has the same lightening bolt design. The new models obviously bear a striking resemblance to Sanguinary Guard due to the pauldron shape and the masks, but the design elements they share with early marines also suggest this was entirely deliberate, hinting at the chaos infested 'new old world' and 30k/40k are the same place after all.
Whether this is just artistic design to appeal to space marine fans or will be a feature of the story as it moves on is anyones guess of course.
I think the consensus was probably anything that was on a 20mm square base will go to a 25mm round, and anything on a 25mm square base will go 32mm round. Entirely guess work at this point though... I've already been looking on ebay for ranked movement trays for round minis - there's a lot of choice out there which is good...
It seems fairly obvious that the heavily armoured holy elite warriors serving the god-king in the war against chaos would be designed to resemble the heavily armoured holy elite warriors serving the god-emperor in the war against aliens and chaos, especially considering that the latter is the lifeblood of 40k sales.
Not the least because of all the nice bits that the former provide for the latter.
Nobody is saying that these sigmarites literally look like they're literally wearing literal power literal armour, literally. But the chunkiness and the design aesthetic is 100% intentionally shared. Just as much as they're a sort of reverse chaos warriors. If you don't want to see that then *shrug* the fault does not lie with me.
So I guess they've decided that Khorne is now the god of wearing armor covering everything except your vital organs? It wasn't just the Bloodskullmongers? That's officially his thing from now on?
Vermis wrote: We'll stop now for a rest. Do you understand what I've been saying?
Yes, you are saying that two things are exactly the same if you can use the same adjectives to loosely describe them, therefore an F1 racer looks like a tractor because they both have wide tires. Can we stop now?
Bottle wrote:I can understand if people don't like the Sigmarines, but the Chaos too? They retain the current aesthetic but with much more modern designs and very dynamic sculpts. What's not to like? :-)
Just that, I suppose.
Not to say that Warhammer was never weird or wacky, but as people have said, it was it was the gloomy mundanity of Warhammer that drew them in. A bunch of normal guys with halberds and a cannon trying to ward off the horde of weirdos with their dragon. A setting where the wackiness was largely tongue-in-cheek and the weird guys like chaos warriors were defined by their weirdness (and it was weird. I've had a look at one of the old Realms of Chaos books, and the thing that strikes you about, say, the illustrations around the mutation tables is that these are drawn like normal people with horrifying disfigurements, not... what I'm about to describe. Hang on.) as opposed to being made humdrum and generic because of it.
Because it's not so much 'weird' these days anyway, especially with this ninth leak, but over the top. That 'badass, wikkid' aesthetic that seems to have bled through so much pop culture in tabletop games like Warmachine and Malifaux, video games like WoW and Darksiders, so many comics since the late eighties... The look where the guys may have more muscles popping than the Hulk on steroids, when they're not a tiny head peering out of an enormous suit of armour that likely has pauldrons like bathtubs, with little awareness of how it actually fits, stays on, or is able to be lugged about... Where the women are often almost the opposite, where the only 'muscles' that matter are on the front, and the ideal, the challenge, seems to be how little armour you can put on 'em compared to the guys. Where swords are like surfboards and axe blades like coffee tables, and the only way it seems they can be made more 'badass' and 'effective' is the degree to which it looks like they were designed by MC Escher. Where the bad guys are only distinguishable from the good guys (if such exist) because they're not gold, or otherwise brightly coloured; they glower even more; and probably have more spikez and skullz jutting out of them someplace. Where you can tell the good quality of the art style from the number of pointy angles and downright weird proportions they crammed in. It's like Rob Liefeld finally ascended to become the fifth Chaos god of XXX-TREME and his followers have taken up his old cause of wonky anatomy, unworkable armour, and deeply goofy weaponry.
You can have all that. Just have it... over there.
And it's no great comfort to some, to see swathes of WFB slowly follow after that whole, general style, and seemingly finally pop into it with these sigmarines and khorne gym-bunnies, and leave the more... subdued, 'realistic' fantasy aesthetic a bit poorer. Maybe, like people have been saying, the design of the other factions will not be so extreme; but with all signs pointing to the sigmarines as the poster boys of this new game, trying to capture the success of space marines, I think this is what we can expect.
Wow thanks for the essay.
The point you make about people liking Fantasy for it being the average human against insurmountable demonic odds is only relavent for Empire players.
I am an Empire player.
If you're going to bring up how different the design is of these new models compared to stuff 30 years old (is that how old Realm of Chaos is? I dunno), then your problem is not with AoS but where Fantasy has been for years and years. The previous marauders were also tanked on steroids.
The point I was making if you compare the Chaos of AoS to the Chaos of 8th and you were a fan of the Chaos of 8th. What's not to like about the AoS Chaos? They look awesome and every sculpt is packed with energy and movement. GW have done a great job :-)
These models look fantastic, and like someone had mentioned earlier, just because someone is wearing full plate does not make them look automatically like spacemarines.
No one is saying that except for people like YOU who disagree that they look like space marines at all. Fantasy has always had knights in full plate and no one in this thread accused them of being space marines so your "point" is invalid since no one is arguing against it. People are saying that THESE models look like space marines for a variety of reasons including the STYLE of their full plate, not simply that they're wearing full plate. I know it is easier to refute a point that no one is making but it really is taking the low road to do that instead of responding to what people are actually saying.
Apologizing here for the rather quick response, I had to get off to work quickly, so now I would rather make my point. Reading through this thread I've seen a lot of banter and people gripping at anything to attempt to connect these newer models to the visual aesthetics of Space Marines, you really don't need to go back more than a page or two to see this. Of course they have similarities to Space marines, they both wear armor, they both share that bulky armor look, but beyond that I cannot say that these new models look anything like space marines. I can take an apple and an orange and say they look absolutely alike because they both have round features, but beyond that I simply can't say more for their texture, color, or taste.
I suppose what I am saying is that you can make connections to anything if you try hard enough. But honestly, round base + bulky armor does not always mean space marine.
In the end, these models are absolutely gorgeous and I commend GW for their work here, they have done a fantastic job putting in a new aesthetic to a dying game, even though this is a new game, and will now hopefully put a new breath of life into the franchise. I myself will be buying two of these box sets.
Does anyone think the Chaos Lords base is way too big in the first page pic?
I know fantasy characters have always been big hitters and been given lots of "visuals" but I think its very OTT and actually takes away from the model.
Ratius wrote: Does anyone think the Chaos Lords base is way too big in the first page pic?
I know fantasy characters have always been big hitters and been given lots of "visuals" but I think its very OTT and actually takes away from the model.
It does look rather large, but there is another model on the base with him, something I can't pick out.
Ratius wrote: Does anyone think the Chaos Lords base is way too big in the first page pic?
I know fantasy characters have always been big hitters and been given lots of "visuals" but I think its very OTT and actually takes away from the model.
Yes I agree its just to big for that model, its almost like my little gobbos would look on a 32mm. Im a bit more concerned with ovals for things like spider riders or huge things like the glotkin. If it comes to the point that all needs to shift to round bases I will try to figure out a way to fit part of my squared bases on the ovals ( maybe cutting the corners or something)
Better than it overhanging and getting damaged or getting in the way of making base-to-base contact. Just think how problematic Genestealers are on their 25mms.
The sigmarites Icon bearer seems to be on a 25mm base? Looks like he is the only one in that faction set on a smaller base. My spider senses hint that different bases will have different rules?
Avrik_Shasla wrote: just because someone is wearing full plate does not make them look automatically like spacemarines.
No.... but when that plate armour is excessively chunky, has huge shoulderpads and huge shin protection, THEN they start to look a bit Space Marine-ish.
That said, I don't think they look so much like Space Marines that it's a huge problem in and of itself... but I can definitely see why some people think they look like Space Marines. Maybe not copy/paste, but enough similarity that you could probably throw a squad of them in to a Space Marine as an elite unit and they'd feel right at home.
I'm ready to see if they will put out some content as to "how" to play the game, being that they are somewhat involved on YouTube with paints.
All surfing opinions great and all what base, what it does and does not look like, truth of matter is : it is their attempt to making something fun, quick and enjoyable.
I felt that when I tried out Heroes of the Storm from Blizzard vs. Dota which I've been a fan of since Warcraft 3 years. Hope its just a switch to something quick that can be played multiple times in a shorter time span.
I hope they don't screw this up because its a big move for them, but who knows its GW after all...
BAD! VERY BAD KIT! I mean shoulder pads split in half? attached arms to torso... a huge step back in plastic kits sprues.
This is just how GW does starter kits now. Look at the terminators in the current 40k starter. If/when these guys get their own box release I'm sure they'll have separate arms and such
BAD! VERY BAD KIT! I mean shoulder pads split in half? attached arms to torso... a huge step back in plastic kits sprues.
This is just how GW does starter kits now. Look at the terminators in the current 40k starter. If/when these guys get their own box release I'm sure they'll have separate arms and such
Was going to say, this is how GW has been doing starter kits for the last releases of 40k and WFB.
Runic wrote:
Do none of you realize that there is no actual evidence of anything like this ( next to the idea being completely ridiculous? ) Basing the success of a product on one faction of another game?
The faction that apparently outsells everything else, by itself? Replicated in a game that was apparently on it's last legs?
You all just presume this is the case, while in reality the designers were probably given a task of creating angelic warriors, and this is what they came up with without any thought of "let's make space marines to lure players yo" -in their head. Such a silly idea.
The Space Marines that apparently lure players in and outsell everything else, yadda yadda yadda?
Preposterous.
The image of management and designers meeting and going "let's make them resemble space marines, that's the best way to sell an entire new game into which we've poured hundreds of thousands of dollars if not more, not to mention the countless hours and employees working on it" ( which is what you just said on point ) is just unfathomably dumb.
By George, I think he's got it.
And I was talking about the games whole success being based on making a few units look like Space Marines, which is still just plain ridiculous. C'mon, you can't be serious. But obviously you missed that, despite the fact I underlined it around 4 times, since you are talking about another thing entirely.
Yeah, I don't really like them. I think GW's design concepts are getting weaker. I'll be skipping this release unless GW reveals models or rules that blow me away. But I don't expect that to happen.
Not a fan of the Sigmarite, they really don'T fit the Empire aesthetics, maybe with different color, they'd be better? I don't know, I also feel like they look way too fantasy ish, compared to the Empire infantry
All the books are now off the GW websites....so if you want a 8th edition army book its too late unless you get it from one of your flgs or online (deals might be coming then!)
Yeah, I don't really like them. I think GW's design concepts are getting weaker. I'll be skipping this release unless GW reveals models or rules that blow me away. But I don't expect that to happen.
chiefbigredman wrote: All the books are now off the GW websites....so if you want a 8th edition army book its too late unless you get it from one of your flgs or online (deals might be coming then!)
Picked up Dwarfs for 50% off already. Sadly, they were out of O&G. And even sadder, Skaven don't even have an up to date (hardback) army book, and now they never will. That is the true crime of Age of Sigmar.
chiefbigredman wrote: All the books are now off the GW websites....so if you want a 8th edition army book its too late unless you get it from one of your flgs or online (deals might be coming then!)
Picked up Dwarfs for 50% off already. Sadly, they were out of O&G. And even sadder, Skaven don't even have an up to date (hardback) army book, and now they never will. That is the true crime of Age of Sigmar.
Bobthehero wrote:Not a fan of the Sigmarite, they really don'T fit the Empire aesthetics, maybe with different color, they'd be better? I don't know, I also feel like they look way too fantasy ish, compared to the Empire infantry
They aren't Empire though, as far as we know. I posted a photoshop of them silver earlier in the thread if you wanna see a different colour
chiefbigredman wrote: All the books are now off the GW websites....so if you want a 8th edition army book its too late unless you get it from one of your flgs or online (deals might be coming then!)
Picked up Dwarfs for 50% off already. Sadly, they were out of O&G. And even sadder, Skaven don't even have an up to date (hardback) army book, and now they never will. That is the true crime of Age of Sigmar.
Bretonnians would like a word...
And Beastmen. Not for a second saying they've been waiting as long but they still have a paperback book.
Runic wrote:
Do none of you realize that there is no actual evidence of anything like this ( next to the idea being completely ridiculous? ) Basing the success of a product on one faction of another game?
The faction that apparently outsells everything else, by itself? Replicated in a game that was apparently on it's last legs?
You all just presume this is the case, while in reality the designers were probably given a task of creating angelic warriors, and this is what they came up with without any thought of "let's make space marines to lure players yo" -in their head. Such a silly idea.
The Space Marines that apparently lure players in and outsell everything else, yadda yadda yadda?
Preposterous.
The image of management and designers meeting and going "let's make them resemble space marines, that's the best way to sell an entire new game into which we've poured hundreds of thousands of dollars if not more, not to mention the countless hours and employees working on it" ( which is what you just said on point ) is just unfathomably dumb.
By George, I think he's got it.
And I was talking about the games whole success being based on making a few units look like Space Marines, which is still just plain ridiculous. C'mon, you can't be serious. But obviously you missed that, despite the fact I underlined it around 4 times, since you are talking about another thing entirely.
Vermis is back, everyone yay.
That's pretty much exactly describing 40K, so why not Fantasy?
As much as I'm undecided on the idea, I can't fault the logic of "Fantasy is dying, 40K is much more successful. Space Marines prop up 40K and are lacking an analogous faction in Fantasy, let's do Medieval Marines!"
The Sigmarites - I think I just hate the 'spiked halo' thing. The rest of the fig is ok, especially when shown in that blue/silver color-scheme.
Lots of hammers, it seems, in both provided factions. Lots of blunt-bloody-bludgeoning-beatdowns to come!
The AoS logo in that pic... spikey Sigmarite halo on the left edge, Chaos-star on the right... very curious.
Why do people keep calling the mount-thing a 'cat'? It seems to me that it's not a 'cat' at all, unless cats have barbed tails and what looks like scales. I supposed it could be some sort of lizard-cat...
Some people are going to compare the Sigmarites to Space Marines because there are definitely some general similarities. They wear heavy armor. Certain portions of that armor are exaggerated. They're 'good guys'. They're made by the same company. Etc. etc. But I think most people can see there are also distinctly obvious -differences-, as well - enough so that calling them 'Fantasy Space Marines' is a bit imperceptive.
Why do people keep calling the mount-thing a 'cat'? It seems to me that it's not a 'cat' at all, unless cats have barbed tails and what looks like scales. I supposed it could be some sort of lizard-cat...
No idea when looked at objectively. Still just seems like BattleCat from HeMan
Vermis wrote: We'll stop now for a rest. Do you understand what I've been saying?
Yes, you are saying that two things are exactly the same if you can use the same adjectives to loosely describe them
Obviously you don't understand what I've been saying. But yes, we'll stop now.
Bottle wrote:
The point you make about people liking Fantasy for it being the average human against insurmountable demonic odds is only relavent for Empire players.
I am an Empire player.
If you're going to bring up how different the design is of these new models compared to stuff 30 years old (is that how old Realm of Chaos is? I dunno), then your problem is not with AoS but where Fantasy has been for years and years. The previous marauders were also tanked on steroids.
The point I was making if you compare the Chaos of AoS to the Chaos of 8th and you were a fan of the Chaos of 8th. What's not to like about the AoS Chaos? They look awesome and every sculpt is packed with energy and movement. GW have done a great job :-)
You don't understand either. Even things like high elves and dwarfs are basically skinny mixups of hittites, egyptians, persians etc. and short comedy vikings, applied to the usual nordic/Tolkien archetypes. They're a bit special, a bit leet in their way, a different shape, but still basically 'people'. (A joke I heard with the release of D&D 4th ed, which introduced tieflings as PCs, was that elf PCs just weren't speshul enough anymore) Then you apply the fantasy veneer of wizards, a few monsters, and a couple of wacky war machines. Just like the Empire, just like most of the others.
Yes, marauders were beefy. They were beefy when I discovered WFB during 6th ed. It doesn't invalidate my point. In fact it reinforces my point that WFB was slowly building to the OTT style. Chaos thugs and marauders before that were often chunky, but not nearly like the giant Schwarzenegger plastics. Ditto with orcs. And while those were around, plenty of other races still stayed relatively petite - scale-hiccup ham-hands nonwithstanding. (In fact, I'll point at scale creep too. I started a lizardmen army during 6th ed and was peeved to see the then-new, bigger, subhorizontal saurus could barely rank up on even 25mm bases.) But in the last few years the boost in plastic production capability has led to things that leave the plastic marauders and Brian Nelson orcs in the dust. Everyone gets more monsters, and bigger ones. The age of monstrous cavalry arrived. More and more wacky war machines, and bigger ones. Vaguely A6-sized bases abound. The rules followed suit and the basic infantry became a footnote until they were given the twin sticking-plasters of 'horde' and 'steadfast'. From what I hear even that meta shifted back to mo' monsters, mo' monsters, mo' monsters towards the end. And that was so successful that they had to wipe Warhammer clean and start again.
But not before they offered up another clatter of giant monsters and kits, which some went nuts for and others went 'pff, really?' That included the marauder-dwarfing khorne boys that, yeah, look fairly similar to the khorne faction in these leaks. All steroidz and spikez and gnarly weaponz and khorney themes. You're right, Bottle, if you're a current Chaos fan you've certainly got more of the same to look forward to. (but someone will be along in a minute to argue that one bare-chested uber-muscled model covered in khorne imagery has nothing at all to do with another bare-chested uber-muscled model covered in khorne imagery)
But here's the thing, Bottle. Here's what you and others can't seem to grasp. Some Chaos fans don't want more of the same. Some WFB fans don't want more of the same. More of the same, but more so. More of the same, doubled down. More of the same OTT. But that's what GW is giving them with this. And some do want more of the same, but with more of the same big battle WFB. But that's not what GW is giving them with this.
For many people it's not just a matter of gazing at some glittery object, then dropping it in the mud to reach out for the next glittery object. GW can't just release any old thing and expect all the sheep (their word) to buy it unquestioned. That's what's got them into bother in the first place: it's not that 'haters gonna hate', or fans gonna moan, or that you can't please all of the people all of the time; it's that GW doesn't really care if it pleases anyone or not, 'cos it thinks they'll buy anyway. That's why the Warhammer World was burnt to a cinder and a new ruleset released, rather than just dialling back on a few things. That's why all these terrible alternative games that have the effrontery to exist are gaining traction and weaseling into discussions about dissatisfaction with GW.
Will AoS save FB? I dunno. Maybe. It is only two photos so far, the model-count buy-in did need to be cut, and a lot of people are looking positively on it. Maybe it'll be a resounding success.
But Bottle, not every genuine Warhammer fan will like it. And that's okay.
BAD! VERY BAD KIT! I mean shoulder pads split in half? attached arms to torso... a huge step back in plastic kits sprues.
Da hatin' is getting silly.
Dark Vengeance push-fit Chosen are split down the shoulder pads and have attached arms to torso. And people often cite them as some of the best models in recent years, better even than the multipart range for Chaos Marines.
That's pretty much exactly describing 40K, so why not Fantasy?
In 40K there are 5 armies that consist of Space Marines ( iirc. ) In AoS there is one, that either partially or completely consists of models some people, not all, find are just Space Marines in fantasy. We were talking about basing the games success solely on making one faction to look like Space Marines.
To make Space Marine players like said army more? Plausible.
One faction. Entire new games business plan and succes, which is obviously inteded to go on for years, which has taken a lot of money and resources. Based on that single detail of one faction having miniatures that to some resemble Space Marines. Just... no.
I'm done about that subject now in any case, it's pointless to even think that is the case asfar as I'm concerned because it's so obviously not true.
You've ran a company asfar as I can remember, I'm sure you'll see basing a possibly million dollar product on something so off chance, something so vague, is just not realistic. They are basing the games success on all of its miniatures, its campaigns, the rules themselves, the fact it supports skirmish gaming and doesn't have a high entry cost, among other realistic things. Not one faction resembling Space Marines, and nothing else - the underlined part being most important.
I maintain my stance that the primary thing wrong with the Sigmarites is they are painted in gold. Make that steel / gunmetal / etc., and you're in business.
Closer look at the masks - blimey. Sure they're Sigmarites? What with Balthasar becoming 'god of metal' or something, sure they're not Gelt... ians?
NAVARRO wrote:
BAD! VERY BAD KIT! I mean shoulder pads split in half? attached arms to torso... a huge step back in plastic kits sprues.
I don't mind the attached arms. Multi-part poseability in plastic kits is sometimes a bit overwrought and overrated anyway. I think the big seam down the middle of each assembled pauldron would annoy me, though.
Azreal13 wrote:That's pretty much exactly describing 40K, so why not Fantasy?
As much as I'm undecided on the idea, I can't fault the logic of "Fantasy is dying, 40K is much more successful. Space Marines prop up 40K and are lacking an analogous faction in Fantasy, let's do Medieval Marines!"
BAD! VERY BAD KIT! I mean shoulder pads split in half? attached arms to torso... a huge step back in plastic kits sprues.
This is just how GW does starter kits now. Look at the terminators in the current 40k starter. If/when these guys get their own box release I'm sure they'll have separate arms and such
Was going to say, this is how GW has been doing starter kits for the last releases of 40k and WFB.
Thats why my pattern of buying is 90% individual regiment boxes and 10% of starters as unit fillers.
Point is still valid though the kit is poor even if thats what GW typically includes in the starters
More so in this instance, we are looking at what seems to be a reboot in WFB and new aesthetics... it even looks like its a skirmish thing now... surely I can tolerate some unit fillers when you have tons of models on the table but on a skirmish level thats not acceptable... Is this what they mean about ferraris and aimed at collectors stuff? Im not feeling it. Missed chance to surprise me positively.
Grimtuff wrote: I'm not seeing any splits on the shoulder pads on any of those images.
The Sigmarine ones go right down the middle.
And they are flat in comparison with spiked and OTT bling bling CSM ones, which makes all the difference.
Indeed. Liquid greenstuff and a filing takes 5 seconds on a flat surface. Doing it on those on a gap with the Chosen without losing detail can be a bitch.
That's pretty much exactly describing 40K, so why not Fantasy?
In 40K there are 5 armies that consist of Space Marines ( iirc. ) In AoS there is one, that either partially or completely consists of models some people, not all, find are just Space Marines in fantasy. We were talking about basing the games success solely on making one faction to look like Space Marines.
To make Space Marine players like said army more? Plausible.
One faction. Entire new games business plan and succes, which is obviously inteded to go on for years, which has taken a lot of money and resources. Based on that single detail of one faction having miniatures that to some resemble Space Marines. Just... no.
I'm done about that subject now in any case, it's pointless to even think that is the case asfar as I'm concerned because it's so obviously not true.
You've ran a company asfar as I can remember, I'm sure you'll see basing a possibly million dollar product on something so off chance, something so vague, is just not realistic. They are basing the games success on all of its miniatures, its campaigns, the rules themselves, the fact it supports skirmish gaming and doesn't have a high entry cost, among other realistic things. Not one faction resembling Space Marines, and nothing else - the underlined part being most important.
One faction for now. We have no idea how many flavours they may divide into in a few years.
I'd agree that basing a project of this scale on such a flimsy premise is risky, I'd not agree that it's vague or not realistic, look at the original reactions to the iPad. But then, I don't consider market research to be otiose in a niche, so I'm apparently not flying rodent gak crazy enough to be qualified to comment.
Grimtuff wrote: I'm not seeing any splits on the shoulder pads on any of those images.
The Sigmarine ones go right down the middle.
And they are flat in comparison with spiked and OTT bling bling CSM ones, which makes all the difference.
Indeed. Liquid greenstuff and a filing takes 5 seconds on a flat surface. Doing it on those on a gap with the Chosen without losing detail can be a bitch.
Haha great to know you can achieve such good results, and so quickly with such good awesome medium. Im quite a noob with Greenstuff
Actually, I'm not so sure liquid green stuff takes filing so well, I'd be more inclined to use Vallejo Plastic Putty, which is a better product all round IMHO.
Looks like they're trying to be WM/H with fantasy versions of 40k.
Still, very curious what they're going to do with it all. Old armies invalidated? Changed to be unrecognizable?
Is that mini confirmed free with White Dwarf? Seems like an Age (possibly longer than that of Sigmar) since they did that.
I am buzzing with what we have seen but need some rules to get properly excited. However the White Dwarf that introduced Execution Force had minimal information about the rules for the game so we may have to wait longer than the "traditional" monday/tuesday leak.
"Age of Sigmar Starter: Battle for the Gates of Azyr, Warriors of the God King vs Khorne"
So those sigmarines are really "warriors of the god king". Its a bit of a long winded title for a box set "Age of sigmar battle for the gates of Azyr".
MWHistorian wrote: Looks like they're trying to be WM/H with fantasy versions of 40k.
Still, very curious what they're going to do with it all. Old armies invalidated? Changed to be unrecognizable?
This is not warhammer fantsy battles 9th edition. This is a completely new game.
I've got to chime in on this, sorry. To me, these really do look like medieval Space Marines. It's not just that they're in armour, it's the scale and fit and style of the armour. Most of all, it's the shoulder pads. And although I don't think GW rebooted Fantasy solely to introduce these guys (there'd be no need), I do think it's likely they would look at their reputedly massive sales of Marines and try to repeat that success with a WFB version.
BAD! VERY BAD KIT! I mean shoulder pads split in half? attached arms to torso... a huge step back in plastic kits sprues.
I think you are seeing it wrong. The shoulder pad is a single piece that rests over the inner arm and is attached to the chest, similar to the way the Skitarii is built.
That is possibly very good news. Hopefully a glut of new AOS kits will arrive in that 12-15 odd weeks rather than the limited 1 kit 40k releases of late. I suppose it would make no sense to not support AOS in the months following its release.
streetsamurai wrote: Darnok just said that they will be no 40k release till october. So we should get a lot of kits for AoS ina very short span.
Harry is also hinting at (more) Skaven
There is a a lot of stuff backed up ready for release. Did you mean weeks or months?
I would expect to see nothing but more Humans and Chaos stuff for a couple of months along with a bunch of terrain (so folks can build 'new look' tables) and then the Skaven stuff to hit.
Vermis wrote: We'll stop now for a rest. Do you understand what I've been saying?
Yes, you are saying that two things are exactly the same if you can use the same adjectives to loosely describe them
Obviously you don't understand what I've been saying. But yes, we'll stop now.
Bottle wrote:
The point you make about people liking Fantasy for it being the average human against insurmountable demonic odds is only relavent for Empire players.
I am an Empire player.
If you're going to bring up how different the design is of these new models compared to stuff 30 years old (is that how old Realm of Chaos is? I dunno), then your problem is not with AoS but where Fantasy has been for years and years. The previous marauders were also tanked on steroids.
The point I was making if you compare the Chaos of AoS to the Chaos of 8th and you were a fan of the Chaos of 8th. What's not to like about the AoS Chaos? They look awesome and every sculpt is packed with energy and movement. GW have done a great job :-)
You don't understand either. Even things like high elves and dwarfs are basically skinny mixups of hittites, egyptians, persians etc. and short comedy vikings, applied to the usual nordic/Tolkien archetypes. They're a bit special, a bit leet in their way, a different shape, but still basically 'people'. (A joke I heard with the release of D&D 4th ed, which introduced tieflings as PCs, was that elf PCs just weren't speshul enough anymore) Then you apply the fantasy veneer of wizards, a few monsters, and a couple of wacky war machines. Just like the Empire, just like most of the others.
Yes, marauders were beefy. They were beefy when I discovered WFB during 6th ed. It doesn't invalidate my point. In fact it reinforces my point that WFB was slowly building to the OTT style. Chaos thugs and marauders before that were often chunky, but not nearly like the giant Schwarzenegger plastics. Ditto with orcs. And while those were around, plenty of other races still stayed relatively petite - scale-hiccup ham-hands nonwithstanding. (In fact, I'll point at scale creep too. I started a lizardmen army during 6th ed and was peeved to see the then-new, bigger, subhorizontal saurus could barely rank up on even 25mm bases.) But in the last few years the boost in plastic production capability has led to things that leave the plastic marauders and Brian Nelson orcs in the dust. Everyone gets more monsters, and bigger ones. The age of monstrous cavalry arrived. More and more wacky war machines, and bigger ones. Vaguely A6-sized bases abound. The rules followed suit and the basic infantry became a footnote until they were given the twin sticking-plasters of 'horde' and 'steadfast'. From what I hear even that meta shifted back to mo' monsters, mo' monsters, mo' monsters towards the end. And that was so successful that they had to wipe Warhammer clean and start again.
But not before they offered up another clatter of giant monsters and kits, which some went nuts for and others went 'pff, really?' That included the marauder-dwarfing khorne boys that, yeah, look fairly similar to the khorne faction in these leaks. All steroidz and spikez and gnarly weaponz and khorney themes. You're right, Bottle, if you're a current Chaos fan you've certainly got more of the same to look forward to. (but someone will be along in a minute to argue that one bare-chested uber-muscled model covered in khorne imagery has nothing at all to do with another bare-chested uber-muscled model covered in khorne imagery)
But here's the thing, Bottle. Here's what you and others can't seem to grasp. Some Chaos fans don't want more of the same. Some WFB fans don't want more of the same. More of the same, but more so. More of the same, doubled down. More of the same OTT. But that's what GW is giving them with this. And some do want more of the same, but with more of the same big battle WFB. But that's not what GW is giving them with this.
For many people it's not just a matter of gazing at some glittery object, then dropping it in the mud to reach out for the next glittery object. GW can't just release any old thing and expect all the sheep (their word) to buy it unquestioned. That's what's got them into bother in the first place: it's not that 'haters gonna hate', or fans gonna moan, or that you can't please all of the people all of the time; it's that GW doesn't really care if it pleases anyone or not, 'cos it thinks they'll buy anyway. That's why the Warhammer World was burnt to a cinder and a new ruleset released, rather than just dialling back on a few things. That's why all these terrible alternative games that have the effrontery to exist are gaining traction and weaseling into discussions about dissatisfaction with GW.
Will AoS save FB? I dunno. Maybe. It is only two photos so far, the model-count buy-in did need to be cut, and a lot of people are looking positively on it. Maybe it'll be a resounding success.
But Bottle, not every genuine Warhammer fan will like it. And that's okay.
I have no idea what your point is this time vermis. Sorry!
Maybe discussions about the "new" visual direction and the like are better suited to Dakka Discussions or somewhere in the WHFB sub forum?
I am not trying to shut the discussion down and I am aware that the Sigmar/Chaos visuals are basically all we have to go on at the minute. However, there are a lot of long-winded and niggling posts that are very far removed from news or rumours currently clogging up the thread.
Some more news via Darnok over at warseer. Probably skipping the box based on this.
Originally Posted by Some Birdy
Concerning models:
humans much larger in scale than standard WHFB humans
not just more bulky and differently proportioned, but I mean the models themselves stand taller, they're just a different scale as WHFB humans (each about the size of a Terminator)
about the model compatibility, and they just went like "yeah well if someone really wants to use their old armies they can, but we didn't intend the new models and old models to be compatible, we think larger models are the way forward, blah blah"
Concerning rules:
it's really for small battles and not as deep and strategic like LOTR was
very simplified, seems intended for short quick beer & pretzel games, lots of random and little strategy
no way you can use it for existing warhammer armies, so with the scale difference and incompatible rules I don't think there's any point in rebasing your existing collection
'post it note' size of the rulebook is pretty much accurate
very much revolves around your commander, which has elaborate special rules
rest of the squads feels much as filler for the commanders to smash up and feel good about
no info yet about anything planned for really large-scale battles
Additionally:
This box set is not the full deal though. There will be a "big rulebook" coming shortly afterwards. That one should cover larger battles, I have yet to hear anything definite on it though (unless I missed something ).
silent25 wrote: Some more news via Darnok over at warseer. Probably skipping the box based on this.
Originally Posted by Some Birdy
Concerning models:
humans much larger in scale than standard WHFB humans
not just more bulky and differently proportioned, but I mean the models themselves stand taller, they're just a different scale as WHFB humans (each about the size of a Terminator)
about the model compatibility, and they just went like "yeah well if someone really wants to use their old armies they can, but we didn't intend the new models and old models to be compatible, we think larger models are the way forward, blah blah"
Concerning rules:
it's really for small battles and not as deep and strategic like LOTR was
very simplified, seems intended for short quick beer & pretzel games, lots of random and little strategy
no way you can use it for existing warhammer armies, so with the scale difference and incompatible rules I don't think there's any point in rebasing your existing collection
'post it note' size of the rulebook is pretty much accurate
very much revolves around your commander, which has elaborate special rules
rest of the squads feels much as filler for the commanders to smash up and feel good about
no info yet about anything planned for really large-scale battles
Additionally:
This box set is not the full deal though. There will be a "big rulebook" coming shortly afterwards. That one should cover larger battles, I have yet to hear anything definite on it though (unless I missed something ).
Sounds like an unholy combination of 5th Edition Warhammer and Dreadfleet. So glad I abandoned Warhammer some time ago.
Also, this release will drastically reduce the chances that we'd ever see Warhammer: Quest redone. However, Dungeon Hulk is being planned with Terminators Sigmarines battling off against evil forces while trying to recover ancient technology artifacts.
silent25 wrote: Some more news via Darnok over at warseer. Probably skipping the box based on this.
Originally Posted by Some Birdy
Concerning models:
humans much larger in scale than standard WHFB humans
not just more bulky and differently proportioned, but I mean the models themselves stand taller, they're just a different scale as WHFB humans (each about the size of a Terminator)
about the model compatibility, and they just went like "yeah well if someone really wants to use their old armies they can, but we didn't intend the new models and old models to be compatible, we think larger models are the way forward, blah blah"
Concerning rules:
it's really for small battles and not as deep and strategic like LOTR was
very simplified, seems intended for short quick beer & pretzel games, lots of random and little strategy
no way you can use it for existing warhammer armies, so with the scale difference and incompatible rules I don't think there's any point in rebasing your existing collection
'post it note' size of the rulebook is pretty much accurate
very much revolves around your commander, which has elaborate special rules
rest of the squads feels much as filler for the commanders to smash up and feel good about
no info yet about anything planned for really large-scale battles
Additionally:
This box set is not the full deal though. There will be a "big rulebook" coming shortly afterwards. That one should cover larger battles, I have yet to hear anything definite on it though (unless I missed something ).
That sounds awful.
Meh, I don't believe it, not yet. I'll wait till we get more photos.
Glad to hear the shields are seperate, GK/Custodius/Sigmarites here I come.
Or not given how little modeling I do these days.
I would say clearly the heavy armored Sigmarites are much larger than the average human. But these aren't humans...nor are they the Empire. These are the God-King's army....get with the times people!
The chaos are smaller than them, and if you look at the size of the current Marauders, they are quite large already, more than a 1/3 the size of an Empire State troop.
That Darnok stuff just smells of bull sorry, main reason for change in the fantasy setting seems to be making it more accessible and prevent the need to buy loads of core units just to play a game but apparently now this system is focussed around the heroes which makes your core feel like fillers still.
Larger models are the way forward eh? I guess all skaven will be rat ogre sized. Na sorry just seems like someone took a look at the pics and made last minute rumours. Sigmarites clearly seem to be separate (God faction) army to Empire, doesnt mean every human is now terminator sized. Chaos Marauders are a lot smaller then Sigmarites.
It sounds great. I can't understand why people don't like it. Must be something wrong with them.
Flashman wrote:Yeah, Bottle got an exalt from me there.
It's not difficult. I'm not criticising the minis, or the new game (well, not yet), or people who like them; but there have been some snide remarks and criticisms of people who don't like them or think it's all too 40Kish, and want something else - as if it's somehow wrong-headed or not allowed. That's just not getting a free pass.
chiefbigredman wrote: All the books are now off the GW websites....so if you want a 8th edition army book its too late unless you get it from one of your flgs or online (deals might be coming then!)
Picked up Dwarfs for 50% off already. Sadly, they were out of O&G. And even sadder, Skaven don't even have an up to date (hardback) army book, and now they never will. That is the true crime of Age of Sigmar.
Oh I know! It makes me so sad that skaven never got a hardback! I've been playing skaven since I started and have accumulated a big army but really want a hardback to make my collection complete...I have the Thanqoul hardback just to own it.
I'm hoping I can pick up a lizardmen and a chaos 8th edition book for a cheap deal sometime soon.
Vermis wrote:Ugh. And yet I'm the one who gets modded.
Work with me here, Bottle. I'm trying to be nice. Can you understand that some people don't like the changing look of Warhammer, especially with AoS?
Sure :-) I wasn't making any grand claims when I said "what's not to like" about the new chaos.
silent25 wrote:Some more news via Darnok over at warseer. Probably skipping the box based on this.
Originally Posted by Some Birdy
Concerning models:
humans much larger in scale than standard WHFB humans
not just more bulky and differently proportioned, but I mean the models themselves stand taller, they're just a different scale as WHFB humans (each about the size of a Terminator)
about the model compatibility, and they just went like "yeah well if someone really wants to use their old armies they can, but we didn't intend the new models and old models to be compatible, we think larger models are the way forward, blah blah"
Concerning rules:
it's really for small battles and not as deep and strategic like LOTR was
very simplified, seems intended for short quick beer & pretzel games, lots of random and little strategy
no way you can use it for existing warhammer armies, so with the scale difference and incompatible rules I don't think there's any point in rebasing your existing collection
'post it note' size of the rulebook is pretty much accurate
very much revolves around your commander, which has elaborate special rules
rest of the squads feels much as filler for the commanders to smash up and feel good about
no info yet about anything planned for really large-scale battles
Additionally:
This box set is not the full deal though. There will be a "big rulebook" coming shortly afterwards. That one should cover larger battles, I have yet to hear anything definite on it though (unless I missed something ).
Sounds really bad. I change my mind about buying the AoS boxset almost every day. The thing as well is how fast the stuff is released I know the fullbook will be out before I have even finished my first 10 Sigmarines. Should I just wait for that instead and spend the left over money on some smaller kits?
At least the leeks leaks are coming through thick and fast now!
The plastics are better but its like we have come full circle from when I started in 1990. Single or a push on pieces. Then came the multi part kits that never lined up unless you took silly amounts of time to build rank and file troops. Then they simplified the multi and those were pretty cool. The detail has gone WAY up but Fantasy Sales are WAY down so how do you fix that? Space Marines!
When I worked for GW we had a meeting were Tom Kirby told us that the tactical squad of space marines accounted for MORE in sale then the ENTIRE range of Fantasy combined! Now as staggering as that is, it appears to me that that is what is happening here. Round bases and Fantasy Space Marines!
The smaller format game will allow people already familiar with GW to try fantasy with out destroying their wallets ( maybe not) and of course it will also be a new carrot for new customer that GW loves so much. There will be those who wail and lament the death of their game and those that return to try the new hotness. This happens every time GW changes pretty much anything but this surely looks like a heavy attempt to pull the 40k crowd to the other side of the shop.
Not saying any of this is good or bad. I do not like the sigmar stuff so far save the HQ. The chaos stuff looks pretty cool but I have to see it up close to make that real judgement for my self. Sure looks like the game just jumped up the scale ladder again though for sure!
Sounds really bad. I change my mind about buying the AoS boxset almost every day. The thing as well is how fast the stuff is released I know the fullbook will be out before I have even finished my first 10 Sigmarines. Should I just wait for that instead and spend the left over money on some smaller kits?
At least the leeks leaks are coming through thick and fast now!
If I were you - wait. See how the first set of releases pan out and get a few demo games under your belt. Nothing worse than investing a ton in a new system if it's naff to play and/or they start going in a direction you dislike. By the time a month or two has passed, there should be a bunch of stuff, that impulse you have to spend spend spend will have faded and you'll probably be a bit less emotional when planning your purchases.
It's not difficult. I'm not criticising the minis, or the new game (well, not yet), or people who like them; but there have been some snide remarks and criticisms of people who don't like them or think it's all too 40Kish, and want something else - as if it's somehow wrong-headed or not allowed. That's just not getting a free pass.
Yup, I don't dislike the Sigmarines; it's just they have no place in my WHFB.
Thing is, they may turn out to be great. Remember the whole kerfuffle when Tau were released and how they were resented by some 40k players due to not being covered in skulls? But we is just irrational haterz, right?
Scale thing is a storm in a teacup, 40k gets by just fine with space marines, guardsmen, and their transports(!) all co-existing despite the scale problems. It really wouldn't matter one bit to field an army of classic Empire alongside these new lightning-riding flash gordon space marine guys. Hell, existing chaos warriors are bigger than normal men. It matters not a jot. I agree, that's someone stoking controversy for the sake of it.
Rules rumours that vague are not worth writing home about, if they knew enough to make broad judgements like that we'd see some specifics
See.. now.. come on GW this just isn't fair.. I'm supposed to be bitter and hate you now but come on.. this is just ... man.. those models..
Granted I'm immediately thinking of Mordheim but still..
Super interesting reading page after page of "OMG Sigmarmarines" "OMG not buying like GW cares" "OMG whining" - how is this not modded back to the actual news about this so people interested can read that and not the same regurgitated back and forth ?
I quite like the High Elf fish like scale plate on the Sigmarite Warrior, along with the hammers (Dwarfs) and battle lizard? (Lizardmen) maybe they are supermen that are able to ally with the other "good" armies? Or I may just be plucking at straws.
Sounds really bad. I change my mind about buying the AoS boxset almost every day. The thing as well is how fast the stuff is released I know the fullbook will be out before I have even finished my first 10 Sigmarines. Should I just wait for that instead and spend the left over money on some smaller kits?
At least the leeks leaks are coming through thick and fast now!
If I were you - wait. See how the first set of releases pan out and get a few demo games under your belt. Nothing worse than investing a ton in a new system if it's naff to play and/or they start going in a direction you dislike. By the time a month or two has passed, there should be a bunch of stuff, that impulse you have to spend spend spend will have faded and you'll probably be a bit less emotional when planning your purchases.
Sounds wise. I do have an opening in my painting schedule however with my first 10 Skitarii almost finished. I was hoping to jump right in on the AoS stuff, plus I've never preordered from GW before. I was hoping to take part in all the hype and fun. I'll give it a few more days and wait for more from SadPanda before I make up my mind.
It's not difficult. I'm not criticising the minis, or the new game (well, not yet), or people who like them; but there have been some snide remarks and criticisms of people who don't like them or think it's all too 40Kish, and want something else - as if it's somehow wrong-headed or not allowed. That's just not getting a free pass.
Yup, I don't dislike the Sigmarines; it's just they have no place in my WHFB.
Thing is, they may turn out to be great. Remember the whole kerfuffle when Tau were released and how they were resented by some 40k players due to not being covered in skulls? But we is just irrational haterz, right?
Is it OK to still think Tau, regardless of the merits of any particular model considered in isolation, don't fit right with 40K if you've held that view consistently since the beginning? Indeed, held it for so long now that the irrational hate has twisted you into a creature of eternal spite, with nothing to sustain you bar the bile in your veins and the black, ossified lump of once-flesh that is your heart?
So I've been on a meh trip with Wargaming but these models have given me a new phase of enjoying it. Also if anything those angels wings will make great bits
Captain Vyper wrote: ... Tom Kirby told us that the tactical squad of space marines accounted for MORE in sale then the ENTIRE range of Fantasy combined!
It would have been awesome if you had posted this 107 pages earlier, so that I could have quoted it, ad nauseum, whenever someone talked about how it was financially wreckless and suicidal for GW to reboot Fantasy as AOS.
Captain Vyper wrote: ... Tom Kirby told us that the tactical squad of space marines accounted for MORE in sale then the ENTIRE range of Fantasy combined!
It would have been awesome if you had posted this 107 pages earlier, so that I could have quoted it, ad nauseum, whenever someone talked about how it was financially wreckless and suicidal for GW to reboot Fantasy as AOS.
I'm trying to think if these new SigMarines make WHFB more interesting in my mind.. I guess they do. Considering that Space Marines are the easily identifiable thing for 40k, I think it's a good trick from GW to try to find some similar unique poster boys for the fantasy range.
SJM wrote: Anyone else think the "Warhammer Age of Sigmar" logo is very dated? Looks like something from the 90s.
GW has been on a nostalgia binge for quite some time now, such as with the most recent incarnation of Chaos Daemons which harken back to the classic sculpts, the Space Hulk (and sorta Man o' War) remake and the revival of some old and obscure units (Ironstriders, Lord of Battle, Castellan Robots etc.), the new Devastators have the classic bulky trim on their grieves, Harlequins got the Neuro-Disruptor, an extremely obscure gun from Rogue Trader, Jokaero etc...
Not to mention the remake of the dark angel head dress on the sprue so you could remake the classic captain, the Crimson fist limited character for the anniversary model and equating the dwarves all over again.
I also likethe idea of a super simplified ruleset I can try out with the kids.
When the new big giant rulebook eventually drops, I wonder if it will continue to expand on the smaller scale skirmish, or just completely ignore it and focus entirely on large scale stuff.
SJM wrote: Anyone else think the "Warhammer Age of Sigmar" logo is very dated? Looks like something from the 90s.
GW has been on a nostalgia binge for quite some time now, such as with the most recent incarnation of Chaos Daemons which harken back to the classic sculpts, the Space Hulk (and sorta Man o' War) remake and the revival of some old and incredibly obscure units (Ironstriders, Lord of Battle etc.)
Well if they make it a Chaos warband/slaves to darkness game but only actually user friendly... I maybe back in!
Honestly, even if Darnok's rumor comes to pass, I still intend to use the chaos 'marauders' as Forsaken and the 'Warriors' as Chosen. Both are touched hard by chaos (Khorne is a perv!), and would have expanded in size a bit. Makes perfect [GW] sense, and enables me to have my cake and eat it. And I'm saying this as someone who has spent the last two years pissed at GW!
silent25 wrote: Some more news via Darnok over at warseer. Probably skipping the box based on this.
Originally Posted by Some Birdy
Concerning models:
humans much larger in scale than standard WHFB humans
not just more bulky and differently proportioned, but I mean the models themselves stand taller, they're just a different scale as WHFB humans (each about the size of a Terminator)
about the model compatibility, and they just went like "yeah well if someone really wants to use their old armies they can, but we didn't intend the new models and old models to be compatible, we think larger models are the way forward, blah blah"
Concerning rules:
it's really for small battles and not as deep and strategic like LOTR was
very simplified, seems intended for short quick beer & pretzel games, lots of random and little strategy
no way you can use it for existing warhammer armies, so with the scale difference and incompatible rules I don't think there's any point in rebasing your existing collection
'post it note' size of the rulebook is pretty much accurate
very much revolves around your commander, which has elaborate special rules
rest of the squads feels much as filler for the commanders to smash up and feel good about
no info yet about anything planned for really large-scale battles
Additionally:
This box set is not the full deal though. There will be a "big rulebook" coming shortly afterwards. That one should cover larger battles, I have yet to hear anything definite on it though (unless I missed something ).
This is honestly what I was most concerned about. Good to see that a mini-game option for those who are less tabletop hardcore/well-funded, but I hope they support it rather than make it a one-off like Dreadfleet, etc. Otherwise the mini-game will just exist to sell models for this "massive scale game"- thereby completely ignoring the biggest problem of WHFB: that it costs an astronomical amount of money to play.
Scaling up the models is another concern- now obviously the Sigmarines will be bigger than regular humans since they're supposed to be demi-god warriors, whatever, but I wonder if this new larger scale is something they want to apply across the board? I simply see no reason for that other than they want to raise the cost of the kits. I guess it's not different than the points dilution that's been going on in both WHFB and 40k for years- you get less and less "bang for your buck" to play what is essentially the same game over the years. And I tend to trust Darnok more than most, he was the one of the couple people who broke the rumors of Sigmarines back at the beginning of the year, so it's a worrisome rumor.
Well, the way the reputable rumors are shaking out, I feel I'm going to keep a very keen eye on everything, but hold off until the future is in clear sight and GW's attempts at impulse-buying are subdued. I have really lost almost all of my interest in 40k, so WHFB might be a game that I can finally get into. But it's GW who has been making 40k unbearable, so what they're going to do with its older-and-wiser brother...well, time will tell...
migooo wrote: You know I'm really not liking what I'm hearing at all.
Whenever I think of God Kings I think of Babylon but instead of that lets go for nipple armour.
So the Chaos guys are going to be small? That's stupid.
You know I had a " slime knight " army that I used as a counts as dwarf army, now it doesn't feel as crazy as this now....
Game over man game over.
i'm not seeing a single nipple on any of the Sigmarite armor...
i see pectorals with no nipples...
since the nipples seemed to be the biggest gripe about the Sanguinary Guard sculpts, it looks like GW actually heard their customers, and sculpted pectoral armor without nipples, but there is still this refrain of "nipple armor" running through the last 15 pages...
seems like GW can't win no matter what they do...
personally, the pectoral armor looks good to me, bringing forth a Greek and Roman vibe...
it may not be Babylonian (which looks awesome on the FW Chaos Dwarf stuff!!!), but it is classical, which is cool with me...
TwilightSparkles wrote: Super interesting reading page after page of "OMG Sigmarmarines" "OMG not buying like GW cares" "OMG whining" - how is this not modded back to the actual news about this so people interested can read that and not the same regurgitated back and forth ?
All of the information will eventually be posted on the front page so you don't have to. If you are offended by a post then simply report it.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Super interesting reading page after page of "OMG Sigmarmarines" "OMG not buying like GW cares" "OMG whining" - how is this not modded back to the actual news about this so people interested can read that and not the same regurgitated back and forth ?
All of the information will eventually be posted on the front page so you don't have to. If you are offended by a post then simply report it.
He complains things aren't being modded enough. And in the same post, he attacks other posters because their opinions are different than his.
Gotta say... I just did an inventory of my WFB 6/7th edition stuff.
For ME, this was the high-water mark of Warhammer.
Heroes good, not GREAT.
Grunts won or lost the battle
Magic *could* win a battle, but not without some other factoring.
Tactics and positioning VERY important.
So, yes I am old.
And yes, I am not the target audience, but I think GW just sold it's soul, but it seems like desperation time at GW.
The only interest I have in AoS is if it has ANY playability as Realm of Chaos Warbands.
Yes.... old.
Fun to read the speculation from the youngsters though.
judgedoug wrote: Man. It looks like they've chosen to completely abandon the 30-year old aesthetic that made Warhammer such a unique universe.
Warhammer is now Flash Gordon shoved through a He-Man filter.
Barf.
Warhammer battle was the epitome of generic and boring fantasy, there was nothing unique in it, as far as high fantasy goes, there is other games that does it, better and cheaper.
Warhammer battle had nothing unique.
Aside from a vast base of players, making finding pick-up games simple and easy.
The alternatives all required making an appointment... assuming you could find someone who'd even heard of it before and was willing to give it a shot.
RacerX wrote: Gotta say... I just did an inventory of my WFB 6/7th edition stuff.
For ME, this was the high-water mark of Warhammer.
Heroes good, not GREAT.
Grunts won or lost the battle
Magic *could* win a battle, but not without some other factoring.
Tactics and positioning VERY important.
So, yes I am old.
And yes, I am not the target audience, but I think GW just sold it's soul, but it seems like desperation time at GW.
The only interest I have in AoS is if it has ANY playability as Realm of Chaos Warbands.
Yes.... old.
Fun to read the speculation from the youngsters though.
The problem, though, is that people like you (and me, someone with a passing interest but not burning paasion) collectively weren't spending enough money to sustain it.
adamsouza wrote: Well, now you'll have a vast base of AOS players, making finding games of AoS simple and easy.
Be prepared for half to three-fourths of all AOS games having at least one player playing Sigmarites, while the rest of the armies are old WHFB models converted over to the new game.
adamsouza wrote: Well, now you'll have a vast base of AOS players, making finding games of AoS simple and easy.
Be prepared for half to three-fourths of all AOS games having at least one player playing Sigmarites, while the rest of the armies are old WHFB models converted over to the new game.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
BTW is your local meta swarmed with Dark Angels, Chaos Marine, Skaven, and High Elves players ? Mine isn't.
The truth is marines are popular and many people like them so the idea of trying to get Marine players to switch over isn't a tough one. I suppose if more people played WFB they probably wouldn't have had to restructure it so much to begin with.
adamsouza wrote: Well, now you'll have a vast base of AOS players, making finding games of AoS simple and easy.
Be prepared for half to three-fourths of all AOS games having at least one player playing Sigmarites, while the rest of the armies are old WHFB models converted over to the new game.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
BTW is your local meta swarmed with Dark Angels, Chaos Marine, Skaven, and High Elves players ? Mine isn't.
Typically, it's just masses of Space Marines, often following whatever the current trend that army has going (i.e. Salamanders, White Scars, etc. etc.). A significant percentage of games are Imperial armies fighting against each other.
Ahtman wrote:The truth is marines are popular and many people like them so the idea of trying to get Marine players to switch over isn't a tough one. I suppose if more people played WFB they probably wouldn't have had to restructure it so much to begin with.
Certainly, but I think there was more hurting WHFB than just not having Space Marines. I think it's the same issues that have been hurting 40k as well- an extremely high upfront cost with no lead-in games (thereby preventing new players from joining) and an ungainly and often overcomplicated ruleset. WHFB just didn't seem to have that army that screamed "buy me!" to so many people, and of course it was more generic overall.
I have hope that WH-AOS might help alleviate two of those issues, but the hints that the game will be going right back to massive scale battles when 9th hits post-AOS have me worried. Of course, I suppose if WHFB doesn't do well after all of this, it will probably just hit the chopping block. Like all of the Specialist Games that came before it.
I wish it was Slaanesh and not Khorne in the box...
And that there will be rules for Nagash & Co from the get-go!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nagash hates Chaos and fight for a new world order. A very strict order and rather morbid, but still a order out of Chaos!
Sikil wrote: Nagash hates Chaos and fight for a new world order. A very strict order and rather morbid, but still a order out of Chaos!
I've eagery awaited Nagash's return and the reunification of the undead factions back unto his cold icy grip.
I hated that Vampire Counts and Mummies superceeded Necromancers at the head of undead armies. The rumors of them benig recombined in AoS are rumors that have me most excited about it.
Maaan, those models are purdy. If the price is right I might just get the set for the models themselves and use Dragon's Rampart as the rules. Any rumor about how much the box will cost?
SJM wrote: Anyone else think the "Warhammer Age of Sigmar" logo is very dated? Looks like something from the 90s.
Why not? People are just about done rehashing the 80's, time to start back in on the 90's.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For me, I think the thing that will make or break my purchase of this box is how easy it will be to remove all the Khorne iconography. I have both Empire and Chaos Warriors, but my Chaos army is all Tzeentch. If it's just some head swaps to get rid of helmets, done deal. I can even shave off icons if need be. But if it's too intricate, that might be a turn-off.
Accolade wrote: Certainly, but I think there was more hurting WHFB than just not having Space Marines
I didn't say the Marines hurt the game, just that having a similar aesthetic would probably create more cross-over players.
No we agree on that, I was just more responding to what you said about GW having to do this because not enough people were playing WHFB. I don't think they really got to the crux of the issue of why WHFB wasn't doing well. These Sigmarines may do well, but if the game isn't taken care of, then I doubt it will be able to survive. And in that regard, WHFB will have died with GW not understanding why. Lack of market research and such.
timetowaste85 wrote: Surprised nobody is commenting on that photoshopped image of a silver paintjob instead of gold. They look MUCH better that way, and don't look a thing like Sang Guard. Once again, models suffer out the gate from "GW painting team is now comprised of colorblind idiots".
Better? Yes. Still Space Marine(TM) proportions? Also yes.
In the '80s Warhammer (Fantasy (Battles)) was just British AD&D with an extra helping of Moorcock. Now there are at least three companies that make alternate WHFB minis. I'm guess the new style direction is to help them not have to compete against generic fantasy miniatures meant for their rules.
Sikil wrote: Nagash hates Chaos and fight for a new world order. A very strict order and rather morbid, but still a order out of Chaos!
I've eagery awaited Nagash's return and the reunification of the undead factions back unto his cold icy grip.
I hated that Vampire Counts and Mummies superceeded Necromancers at the head of undead armies. The rumors of them benig recombined in AoS are rumors that have me most excited about it.
Remember a couple Armybook ago you could run your VC army with no vampires, just lead by a Master necromancer and his acolytes? I miss those days, the Reign of the Puppet Master came to a sad end when that book went away.
These models look fantastic, and like someone had mentioned earlier, just because someone is wearing full plate does not make them look automatically like spacemarines. Fantasy is a completely over arching theme of creativity, and from what I see here in this release, I can say that the dark, grim, look of these models looks very unique.
No, full plate armor does NOT make them look automatically like Space Marines(TM). Boots, gauntlets, and shoulder plates bigger than the helmet makes them automatically look like Space Marines(TM), because that's the whole Space Marine(TM) aesthetic!
These models look fantastic, and like someone had mentioned earlier, just because someone is wearing full plate does not make them look automatically like spacemarines. Fantasy is a completely over arching theme of creativity, and from what I see here in this release, I can say that the dark, grim, look of these models looks very unique.
No, full plate armor does NOT make them look automatically like Space Marines(TM). Boots, gauntlets, and shoulder plates bigger than the helmet makes them automatically look like Space Marines(TM), because that's the whole Space Marine(TM) aesthetic!
Plus the Chaplain in the back adorned with bones and a skull helmet.
Puts on conspiracy hat: perhaps part of the reason we haven't yet seen Mk. I Space Marine armor was because these thunder Warriors were in the works?
So it looks like the first page has some pictures up, and I flipped back through to about page 90. But are there any rumors out about the rules or what type of game this is going to be?
Is this just a standalone "board" game or is this the start of 9th edition?
He definitely does. Hopefully, they will release plastic flesh hounds soon, as the current ones are simply atrocious, and are incredibly expensive.. I doubt it though, since if GW had made plastic flesh hounds, they probably would have released them with the Bloodthirster
streetsamurai wrote: He definitely does. Hopefully, they will release plastic flesh hounds soon, as the current ones are simply atrocious, and are incredibly expensive.. I doubt it though, since if GW had made plastic flesh hounds, they probably would have released them with the Bloodthirster
Well Darnok is saying no 40k till October, so that likely means one month roughly for the three factions: Sigmarines, Warriors of Khorne, and Skaven. Suspect plastic Flesh Hounds will be in there. Given most the Chaos models in the Dark Vengeance box never saw single releases till much later, I suspect this will be the same.
*edit* Grey Seer Kwokka over at Warseer claims he was show the price by one the GW employees in Australia, $200AU. That either means $140 US or the Emu Overlords of Australia are demanding more tithes.
Looks interesting. Not sure if I'll actually play it, but I'm sure I'll pick up a box or two for the models. They do look very reminiscent of Space Marines, and I'm sure that's no accident. It looks like I'll have both my Basiliean Elohi for KoW as well as possibly some Adeptus Custodes for 40k.
Ahtman wrote: The truth is marines are popular and many people like them so the idea of trying to get Marine players to switch over isn't a tough one. I suppose if more people played WFB they probably wouldn't have had to restructure it so much to begin with.
The flaw to this logic is... why would you want 40k players to switch to WHFB?
Surely you're looking for NEW gamers, not existing gamers to spend less on 40k and more on WHFB, lol.
Avrik_Shasla wrote: just because someone is wearing full plate does not make them look automatically like spacemarines.
No, full plate armor does NOT make them look automatically like Space Marines(TM). Boots, gauntlets, and shoulder plates bigger than the helmet makes them automatically look like Space Marines(TM), because that's the whole Space Marine(TM) aesthetic!
I wonder if those skulls will be included to plug in to the bases like some of the random bits were for Dark Vengeance, or if they're just extra flair GW slapped on the base.
Oh look, dudes in full plate that don't look like Space Marines somehow. They're even painted gold but manage not to look like Sanguinary Guard.
I wonder why it is I can see a picture of these guys and not think they look at all like Space Marines, but my first and immediate reaction to the Sigmarites was "omfg, Space Marines in Fantasy, we've come full circle." Probably because I'm just slowed.
Ahtman wrote: The truth is marines are popular and many people like them so the idea of trying to get Marine players to switch over isn't a tough one. I suppose if more people played WFB they probably wouldn't have had to restructure it so much to begin with.
The flaw to this logic is... why would you want 40k players to switch to WHFB?
Surely you're looking for NEW gamers, not existing gamers to spend less on 40k and more on WHFB, lol.
Because GW isn't looking for people to switch, or worried about cannibalizing their own sales, they're looking for people to buy this as well as their regular 40k purchases. GW assumes people will buy the new Age of Sigmar box because of the new Sigmarites (which despite everyone's insistence that this is just nonsense actually seems to have worked in this thread, with people that seemingly had no interest in WHF before suddenly looking forward to Age of Sigmar because of the new faction, people with mostly Marine avatars as mentioned before), and that it won't slow their Space Marine purchases at all, because they can't fathom that their customers have limited funds or other priorities.
Something tells me that the Sigmarines are going to be dirt cheap on eBay. GW wanted to make a shiny new faction to draw in new players, but they ended up getting out shined by the new Chaos :-p
Oh dear, they really do look like fantasy space marines. I can see wanting to appeal to the 40k crowd, but won't that lead to cannibalizing sales which is what got the 'specialist' games killed off? I don't see this ending well.
Torga_DW wrote: Oh dear, they really do look like fantasy space marines. I can see wanting to appeal to the 40k crowd, but won't that lead to cannibalizing sales which is what got the 'specialist' games killed off? I don't see this ending well.
Too true. The 40k modeler in me is mildly interested in some of those parts (wings, helmets, maybe the shoulder pads, etc, etc) but I can absolutely see why fantasy players might feel put off.
Darnok (from Warseer) - Total rumors: (75 TRUE) / (18 FALSE) / (9 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Quite reliable chap. The last bit of rumors sound like a huge pile of menure rules wise for AOS.
There's also a few comments there that shows GW intentions.
yeah well if someone really wants to use their old armies they can, but we didn't intend the new models and old models to be compatible, we think larger models are the way forward,
and
no way you can use it for existing warhammer armies, so with the scale difference and incompatible rules I don't think there's any point in rebasing your existing collection
The last bit does bring a bit of hope.
This box set is not the full deal though. There will be a "big rulebook" coming shortly afterwards. That one should cover larger battles, I have yet to hear anything definite on it though (unless I missed something ).
Scale is not a problem for my armies ( chaos and O&G) and if they sigmarite everything I have my ways either by converting, getting other companies models or even sculpting my own from scratch so yes I can turn everything around to my own tastes but that leads me to the following question...
Why would I want to participate in a skirmish game that rendered my armies background obsolete, that has little to no depth and that I have to convert a big portion of my models to be compatible? Surely its a LOT easier to just play other games with my models and evolve my own background outside GW bubble.
In short the problem of the WFB exodus is aggravated with AoS for any fan of WFB.
I will wait and see the full rulebook but GW hypothetic intentions do rub me in the wrong way.
Lets say AOS is sounding more like the Age of the WFB fans Purge than anything else.
Exited about the terrain rumor! ( sad that this is literally the only thing that gets me exited )
Talys wrote: When I first saw it, I actually thought "World of Warcraft" much more than space marines.
Personally I thought 'Korean MMO', either way I have no interest in the models and the rumoured rules sound distinctly uninteresting. Their 'heroic' proportions are certainly very reminiscent of Space marines though and completely removed from the relative realism that WHFB used to have, at least before the 'skulls on everything' law came into force.
WHFB has been all but dead to me since 8th (I started in 4th) and AOS will almost certainly switch off the life support machine; its highly likely that Warhammer:Total War will be my last ever Warhammer related purchase. Its not as if I need another wargame at the moment anyway.
If the absence of the mini rulebook is correct than no wonder GW wants us to know nothing about what we are buying and what is coming in a near future.
Hell its not even a starter, just a collection of snap fit minis with dices.
We will soon find out... Hold on to you Vouchers Bottle maybe you want to save that for the actual rulebook.
migooo wrote: Wait there's going to be only a 4 page booklet, the minis obviously. Maybe construction pamphlet?
Dice and rulers and that's it?
For £75... and no mini rulebook. Well good going GW even less likely I'm going to get it.
based on the photos I expect some terrain in the form of floating portals and steps too
I wouldn't count on it honestly. If it does that would make it less awful. But the lack of rules is kinda stupid. Oh I forgot how did Kirby put it Collecting and buyingis the favourite past time of our customers not playing.
NAVARRO wrote:If the absence of the mini rulebook is correct than no wonder GW wants us to know nothing about what we are buying and what is coming in a near future.
Hell its not even a starter, just a collection of snap fit minis with dices.
We will soon find out... Hold on to you Vouchers Bottle maybe you want to save that for the actual rulebook.
Yes! Sad thing is buying rulebooks is by far the worst part of the hobby nowadays :-( especially as Warhammer is likely to fall into a 2 year release cycle too so that 40k and WHFB can be released every alternate summer.
For me a lot of this comes down to the price point of the set and does it include full rules or not. I don't particularly want the miniatures (though painting them could be fun) and if we don't have full rules then how the hell are we supposed to make decisions regarding our existing models and whether we want to continue investing in warhammer?...... So many unanswered questions.
Talys wrote: When I first saw it, I actually thought "World of Warcraft" much more than space marines.
Personally I thought 'Korean MMO',
BLAM!
That's it, I couldn't put my finger on it until now, but you're absolutely right.
Yes. This.
Not even Korean MMO...
Just...MMO-esque. Which is great if you want something to stand out and catch attention to be new, shiny, with a low lifespan and probably a spiralling history of neglect before a quiet death in a corner....
But not really great for a game that has 20 odd years of history which has developed a very specific aesthetic quality....seriously, you can put Empire models from 18 years ago in with current Empire armies...and they fit. You can put 30 year old Orcs in with modern Orcs...and they fit to some extent.
Have fun fitting one of those Warmachine MMO-esque winged not-Marines alongside a 'current' Empire army.
I think this thread is a great example of how GW's terrible information policy creates a negative feeling in the community. Instead of buzz we have people worried about the implications of this leak, others arguing that they should not worry, and then arguments stemming from that. Instead of hearing about what people are planning to do with the new models and their ideas about the new rules, all we are hearing is people worried about what they might be. So we are shut off from the best part of the community- other hobbyists ideas and creativity. Instead we have a fairly acrimonious discussion.
A real shame. I hope WFB stays around as a source of decent hard plastic kits at the very least, so I am not cheerleading for AoS to fall flat. At the same time, it's not my cup of tea.
it's really for small battles and not as deep and strategic like LOTR was
As much as I loved LoTR (the setting, miniatures etc.), under no circumstances would I call it 'deep'.
That's therefore quite a worrying statement!
Indeed. I'm picturing some of their earlier introductory rules for Warhammer. "Take two guys and place them 6" from each other. Now roll dice until one is dead."
I plan to pick some up and either use them as paladins for my GK army or start a BA army if they ever get a non-snap fit release. I don't p!an to buy AoS.
Is the rumour still the set costing about $200 AU? Guess its a good thing I havent spent anything on models these past 2 months. Cant wait to binge on it
So if the Sigmarites were the size of mortal humans then people would stop calling them space marines? Reduce the size and they are just knights in gold armour, these guys are Sigmar's home boys, people would be calling them too weak looking to be god soldiers if they were puny.
unmercifulconker wrote: Is the rumour still the set costing about $200 AU? Guess its a good thing I havent spent anything on models these past 2 months. Cant wait to binge on it
So if the Sigmarites were the size of mortal humans then people would stop calling them space marines? Reduce the size and they are just knights in gold armour, these guys are Sigmar's home boys, people would be calling them too weak looking to be god soldiers if they were puny.
No. People would start calling them short space marines.
Space Marines are not space marines because they are huge. They are Space Marines, model wise, because they have huge armor.
The lore does not matter. What matters are the model aesthetics.
unmercifulconker wrote: Is the rumour still the set costing about $200 AU? Guess its a good thing I havent spent anything on models these past 2 months. Cant wait to binge on it
So if the Sigmarites were the size of mortal humans then people would stop calling them space marines? Reduce the size and they are just knights in gold armour, these guys are Sigmar's home boys, people would be calling them too weak looking to be god soldiers if they were puny.
Ahtman wrote: The truth is marines are popular and many people like them so the idea of trying to get Marine players to switch over isn't a tough one. I suppose if more people played WFB they probably wouldn't have had to restructure it so much to begin with.
The flaw to this logic is... why would you want 40k players to switch to WHFB?
Surely you're looking for NEW gamers, not existing gamers to spend less on 40k and more on WHFB, lol.
Just think of how many new gamers have been pulled into 40K because of SM.
I also see Khorne appreciates the value of shin armour, if nothing else.
I know its a bit hard to see from these images but they look like more of the same as those khorne "end times" models which I think look stupid, I'll hold off judgement on the AoS khorne until I see better images, there is something about the musculature of the front unit that looks wrong.
Also why the hell Khorne? It seems rather unimaginative from them by now and wouldn't undivided have been better?
I can pass over the "Sigmarines" as I think I might understand what they were going for, giant ankles, but their armour looks more like the plastic chaos lord with a spear than space marines.
Da Boss wrote: I think this thread is a great example of how GW's terrible information policy creates a negative feeling in the community. Instead of buzz we have people worried about the implications of this leak, others arguing that they should not worry, and then arguments stemming from that. Instead of hearing about what people are planning to do with the new models and their ideas about the new rules, all we are hearing is people worried about what they might be. So we are shut off from the best part of the community- other hobbyists ideas and creativity. Instead we have a fairly acrimonious discussion.
Have yourself an exalt for this Sir. I was talking to another member via Pm about other upcoming boxed releases such as the new Halo space ship game, months in advance we knew the release date, contents and had a sneak preview of the rules. So you could plan ahead, budget and get even more of a buzz about the game going. It is a shame that the same cannot be said for AOS but it is just not the way that GW do things any more.
Price, contents, etc And 'answers to all questions'.
Then I get to decide whether its a weekend long party and ordering in a 100 copies, or focusing on the Origins pre release and tossing two copies of a boardgame out for sale No information makes planning suck.
It's not difficult. I'm not criticising the minis, or the new game (well, not yet), or people who like them; but there have been some snide remarks and criticisms of people who don't like them or think it's all too 40Kish, and want something else - as if it's somehow wrong-headed or not allowed. That's just not getting a free pass.
Yup, I don't dislike the Sigmarines; it's just they have no place in my WHFB.
Thing is, they may turn out to be great. Remember the whole kerfuffle when Tau were released and how they were resented by some 40k players due to not being covered in skulls? But we is just irrational haterz, right?
Is it OK to still think Tau, regardless of the merits of any particular model considered in isolation, don't fit right with 40K if you've held that view consistently since the beginning? Indeed, held it for so long now that the irrational hate has twisted you into a creature of eternal spite, with nothing to sustain you bar the bile in your veins and the black, ossified lump of once-flesh that is your heart?
Worse, I think that the Tau are a perfectly acceptable army.
For a completely different game.
Yeah... the Tau do feel tacked on.
But I think that if and when Dreamforge has their own rules....
unmercifulconker wrote: Is the rumour still the set costing about $200 AU? Guess its a good thing I havent spent anything on models these past 2 months. Cant wait to binge on it
So if the Sigmarites were the size of mortal humans then people would stop calling them space marines? Reduce the size and they are just knights in gold armour, these guys are Sigmar's home boys, people would be calling them too weak looking to be god soldiers if they were puny.
Puny you say?
Real WFB may want to have a word with you.
Spoiler:
That model and its unmounted version is pretty tiny actually.
Price, contents, etc And 'answers to all questions'.
Then I get to decide whether its a weekend long party and ordering in a 100 copies, or focusing on the Origins pre release and tossing two copies of a boardgame out for sale No information makes planning suck.
unmercifulconker wrote: Is the rumour still the set costing about $200 AU? Guess its a good thing I havent spent anything on models these past 2 months. Cant wait to binge on it
So if the Sigmarites were the size of mortal humans then people would stop calling them space marines? Reduce the size and they are just knights in gold armour, these guys are Sigmar's home boys, people would be calling them too weak looking to be god soldiers if they were puny.
Puny you say?
Real WFB may want to have a word with you.
Spoiler:
That model and its unmounted version is pretty tiny actually.
Not sure if missing point intentionally for humour or if serious.
Da Boss wrote: I think this thread is a great example of how GW's terrible information policy creates a negative feeling in the community. Instead of buzz we have people worried about the implications of this leak, others arguing that they should not worry, and then arguments stemming from that. Instead of hearing about what people are planning to do with the new models and their ideas about the new rules, all we are hearing is people worried about what they might be. So we are shut off from the best part of the community- other hobbyists ideas and creativity. Instead we have a fairly acrimonious discussion.
Have yourself an exalt for this Sir. I was talking to another member via Pm about other upcoming boxed releases such as the new Halo space ship game, months in advance we knew the release date, contents and had a sneak preview of the rules. So you could plan ahead, budget and get even more of a buzz about the game going. It is a shame that the same cannot be said for AOS but it is just not the way that GW do things any more.
See the opposite is true too. If a game is coming out and the info you have makes it look dumb, you have more time to talk yourself out of it. So basically I am saying they have no confidence in their product except for its look.
At the risk of scaremongering, I really don't like the look of this latest leak.
The biggest fear I've always had for 9th is that it would essentially be "40k with bows and arrows". The transition to round bases, the introduction of space marine-esque models (however nice) and the introduction of what looks very similar to jump/jet pack infantry (top of first picture), only helps to grow these fears.
I'll be happy if there's a mode where I can still use my hundreds of square-based models in larger battles, even if it's a ruleset where I have to house rule to scale it up,or where the battles are slightly smaller.
This, however, just looks like 40k, and that doesn't surprise me, really, considering how this release is supposed to be bringing new people into the game. I think we can wave goodbye to charge arcs, reforms and a movement phase that is different and far more tactical than 40k, and say hello to a style that is very similar, if not identical, to the run/shoot/assault of 40k.
The Shadow wrote: At the risk of scaremongering, I really don't like the look of this latest leak.
The biggest fear I've always had for 9th is that it would essentially be "40k with bows and arrows". The transition to round bases, the introduction of space marine-esque models (however nice) and the introduction of what looks very similar to jump/jet pack infantry (top of first picture), only helps to grow these fears.
I'll be happy if there's a mode where I can still use my hundreds of square-based models in larger battles, even if it's a ruleset where I have to house rule to scale it up,or where the battles are slightly smaller.
This, however, just looks like 40k, and that doesn't surprise me, really, considering how this release is supposed to be bringing new people into the game. I think we can wave goodbye to charge arcs, reforms and a movement phase that is different and far more tactical than 40k, and say hello to a style that is very similar, if not identical, to the run/shoot/assault of 40k.
Agreed.
I don't see how you could incorporate AoS into a scaled up mass battle game. AoS has Sigmarite forces in units of 3 or 5 models all on (32mm?) round bases. If the units start that small it would be a big investment to buy enough unit boxes to create a large army. The Khorne force does have marauders in 10 man squads so at least those units are bigger but I don't see how you'd incorporate the new models on round bases with blocks of existing marauders on square bases. Sure its not impossible but it strikes me that making hobbyists do the extra work to meld existing army core troops with the new version is GWs not so subtle way to push everyone into starting over again.
Now that we've seen Blight Kings, Wrathmonhers, Rat Ogres, Chaos Warriors, and Sigmarite released in units of 3-5 models I think that's a pretty clear indication that GW wants to build the game around small units of large models (along with heroes, monsters and monstrous cav). Given that trend I think GW will still set up 9ed to handle mass battles but those battles will be fought with armies made up of much smaller model count units than previous editions.
Price, contents, etc And 'answers to all questions'.
Then I get to decide whether its a weekend long party and ordering in a 100 copies, or focusing on the Origins pre release and tossing two copies of a boardgame out for sale No information makes planning suck.
It astounds me they're trying to put this release up against a MtG set prerelease. We're certainly not going to try to run a GW event for fantasy on that day, Magic dominates Way to hard.
Price, contents, etc And 'answers to all questions'.
Then I get to decide whether its a weekend long party and ordering in a 100 copies, or focusing on the Origins pre release and tossing two copies of a boardgame out for sale No information makes planning suck.
It astounds me they're trying to put this release up against a MtG set prerelease. We're certainly not going to try to run a GW event for fantasy on that day, Magic dominates Way to hard.
Noone at my store cares about MtG, I doubt many even know what it is. I don't think they're trying to pit it against anything, they just happen to fall on the same day. We're having an event for AoS ironically.
....
If its more like 1/10th then not so much.
sorry, main reason for change in the fantasy setting seems to be making it more accessible and prevent the need to buy loads of core units just to play a game but apparently now this system is focussed around the heroes which makes your core feel like fillers still.
