Da Boss wrote: Nah, sky's not falling, just not feeling the release so far. Looks competently executed but not a style I enjoy.
Oh well! More historicals for me.
Totally agree. These are very nice models, very well done, but in a style and theme I have no interest in whatsoever. I really liked the Empire as beleaguered humans fighting against monsters and hulking chaos warriors. The starter set inverts this entirely, with the only human factions we have seen so far being heroic, superbly equipped 'good guys' and a rabble of largely unarmored and conventionally armed chaos marauders.
If the two sides released in the starter set aren't supposed to be iconic or representative of the themes of the game, they're a poor choice for a starter set.
I had faint hopes that the new material released for Age of Sigmar might be compatible with the look and themes of the former WFB, so that I could ignore their storyline and continue to play games in a previous edition while still buying new models. From the starter set, that doesn't look to be a possibility. While the chaos marauders definitely fit the esthetic of the old Chaos Warrior army, they seem too big to be marauders, and too poorly equipped to be Chaos Warriors.
For the person who has no investment in the old style of play or the old look and feel, these may be great for them. I don't see anything I like, and I'm dreading half of the pages of WD being filled with a game I have no interest in, while I still like 40K a lot.
Aerethan wrote: And so begins the new game system: Warhammer -40k. Taking place in the grim dark(yet surprisingly shiny and polished) world of 40,000 years before Sci Fi became a thing.
Sigmarines abound.
Anyone want literally every piece of GW anything I own? Will let it all go for a very reasonable price!
I think the models look nice, if a bit chunky. A total rebranding was coming, we all knew that. A high fantasy setting is too generic for GW's rabid IP protection kick. Also, I have to believe that the Sigmarines aren't replacing anything. They're in addition to the former Empire line, sorta like allies. Some Fantasy tropes will remain for the time being, but as time goes on and the new setting develops, the elves and dwarfs and anything not wholly "original" will get total makeovers, too.
I feel for the WFB players, tho. It's how I feel about the mess 40K has become. Unfortunately, loyalty isn't rewarded by GW these days. Open your wallet or GTFO is GW's sole mantra.
Looking at these new models I have to say that it looks like there is a scale creep going on there, the models look 32mm++ assuming the bases are 32mm, maybe its just an optical illusion or the fact that these are special super human things?
Another thing that I noticed is that the painted blue shoulder pads bits look like inverted Space marine shoulder pads, the feet are HUGE and that the new iconic spam is not the skulls anymore but Hammers instead. MC hammer time!
SO, the bases are now rounded which sucks.
Model design I do not know were to begin with, the proportions look off on most of them, like there is no attention to realism and all is distorted beyond the already distorted WFB models, I mean those marauders look like they have muscles in all the wrong places but I will no expand to much on that because the pictures are blurry.
The overall look now is even less medieval and more fantasy, there was an immense change to the WFB traditional designs. WFB has always been cartoony but this is a few extra steps and leaps into fantasy lands.
Does it look like 40k? Its hard not to in those bases and in loose formations and its even harder when the new faction has so many futuristic features, like those strange mechanical wings?
All in all I do retain from these pictures a shift in the miniature design, bases and formations... Do they appeal to me? I need to see more. Specially O&G.
The main thing that strikes me about the chaos picture is from the text:
"The warriors of the God-King, unleashed upon shafts of magical lightning, have arrived in the Mortal Realms, striking the first blow in a war of vengeance."
What does "unleashed upon shafts of magical lightning" mean? Are they attacking the lightning? Is the magical lightning anathema to proper, God-King fearing lightning? Are they instead riding the lightning? Like, literally on the lightning?
Yea, sure, GW's fluff has always been fairly over the top, but that sentence doesn't even make sense.
oh god, what a joke those are. I feel sorry for fans of the old fantasy factions and their aesthetics. Empire has now turned into pauldron wearing, bolter hammer wielding, Space Marine knockoffs. Might as well call them astartes knights and be done with it.
Reading the blurbs of text this looks to be a "prequel" to the Age of Sigmar.
This is an army of a god (Sigmar) fighting the army of another god(Khorne) in order to open the gates for the "lesser races".
It sounds like all the old models are still there and available for use in Age of Sigmar. Likely the Sigmarines are an elite faction that can ally the "good guys".
I am in for a starter set and if my assumptions are correct and the rules are fun I will be playing the Age of Sigmar.
Looks like Tim the Thief and Steve the Warboss from Natfka are fully debunked at this point. Maybe he'll start actually sorting out his sources this time. Nah.
Da Boss wrote: Is it me or are there no ranged weapons in the set at all?
Just wait till we get the rules.
The Sigmarines will probably be firing bolts of lightning out their hammers.
Oh god you joke but that's probably in the rules you know... And I bet those bolts of lightning have the exact same ranged weapon profile as a boltgun ;-) And those sigmarines probably save on a 3+ as well...
primalexile wrote: Reading the blurbs of text this looks to be a "prequel" to the Age of Sigmar.
This is an army of a god (Sigmar) fighting the army of another god(Khorne) in order to open the gates for the "lesser races".
It sounds like all the old models are still there and available for use in Age of Sigmar. Likely the Sigmarines are an elite faction that can ally the "good guys".
I am in for a starter set and if my assumptions are correct and the rules are fun I will be playing the Age of Sigmar.
This seems bang on. Those models are clearly not the new Empire models.
pretre wrote: Looks like Tim the Thief and Steve the Warboss from Natfka are fully debunked at this point. Maybe he'll start actually sorting out his sources this time. Nah.
what sources? they just need to stop guessing to get hits on their page........
The worst part is this is only the first half of FantasyRumor-mageddon. Once we get the rules, people like Vela are going to go down in flames (huge rumor posts with all the specific rules they said changed).
I am definitely not liking the Sigmarines. They are amazing miniatures, but they don't fit the Warhammer aesthethic that I like so much. I hope that normal Empire-like humans will still be around somewhere in the Age of Sigmar.
The Chaos miniatures are awesome and I am probably going to pick some up for my 40k Chaos armies.
Iron_Captain wrote: I am definitely not liking the Sigmarines. They are amazing miniatures, but they don't fit the Warhammer aesthethic that I like so much. I hope that normal Empire-like humans will still be around somewhere in the Age of Sigmar.
The Chaos miniatures are awesome and I am probably going to pick some up for my 40k Chaos armies.
Im pretty sure (at least hopeing) these are just the leet of leet guys. and that regular human on foot will still be a thing
Otherwise not sure how my skaven will be taking down these guys
Jokes aside I don't like the new look, but I'm withholding judgement on the chaos stuff as it may make good 40k fodder, the empire stuff looks god awful and cartoony, bar the angels, need a better look at them.
Iron_Captain wrote: I am definitely not liking the Sigmarines. They are amazing miniatures, but they don't fit the Warhammer aesthethic that I like so much. I hope that normal Empire-like humans will still be around somewhere in the Age of Sigmar.
The Chaos miniatures are awesome and I am probably going to pick some up for my 40k Chaos armies.
Im pretty sure (at least hopeing) these are just the leet of leet guys. and that regular human on foot will still be a thing
Otherwise not sure how my skaven will be taking down these guys
With craft smart-smart plans that will lead to inevitable Skaven victory, of course!
The set looks great! I did go a buy a box of State Troopers today though after seeing the pictures, as I need to flesh out my Halberdiers regiment and don't want to miss out if they truly are going the way of the squats.
Points of worry.
1. Looks like it says "4 page rule sheet" or something on the side...
2. The fluff makes it obvious that the boxset is a continuation of the story and ONCE the gates are open BOOM massed battles suppliment and/or full rulebook here we come :/
So does that mean AoS IS just a mini game? Is it not going to be officially supported later? Still so many questions. .
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw if you have a bajillion models painted up in blocks, well, Kings of War is right there and the rules are free to download. I recommend giving it a shot.
It's not played here in Portugal... :(
Nothing is "played here" until people put in a little leg-work and start getting a game community going.
More than ever I feel stunned when people refused to give KoW (or other systems) a go when the rules are free, and they own the models they would need. Meanwhile it is an almost universally lauded game system, with an incredibly balanced (and still free) second edition coming out... all from a consumer-centric company that will happily spend development resources giving WHFB refugees army lists (again, free), for models they don't even produce analogs of.
If right now isn't the best chance Mantic will ever have to get people mass playing KoW, I don't know what is.
That's kind of the point. It was going to die as is.
I'm cool with the aesthetic of the Sigmarites. I do think the faction was designed and intended to fill the SM role -- elite, knightly warriors, smaller numbers, etc. -- which has worked well for many years in attracting younger folks to 40K. And it's perhaps a lighter aesthetic for that faction -- call it WoW, Warmahordes or whatever you will.
But Chaos...still pretty much looks like Chaos to me. *shrug* I'm guessing that some other armies will see some shifts, but there will plenty of stuff that looks like the Warhammer we know.
Those are some roided out Str 3 marauders. All the Chaos Warriors look like 40k chosen. I think one of them is even based from the sculpt of the guy that came in the starter box.
Don't wanna say I'm out, but I really don't like the new look. The mini's are good mini's, but not the aesthetic I had come to enjoy.
I am very, very, very happy all around with everything we've seen. I can't wait to see the actual box sets and not just the starter figures.
For people complaining about Chaos, they're forgetting the current line of chaos models follows the short and stumpy terrible old molds that they used to use for 3rd-4th edition 40k. They can finally give them proper proportions and thinner limbs which makes them anatomically correct as well as way more detailed. That's why they look much different, they're actually people and not half-dwarves.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Regardless of where you stand on liking, or not liking these new models, Fantasy has always been a steampunk meets renaissance look, and quite frankly, this look is miles away.
I can't believe that 30 years of design is going straight out the window.
Funny, I never saw the steampunk/renaissans theme in high elves, wood elves, lizzies, brets, darkelves,
ogres, tomb kings, vampire counts, chaos warriors, daemons, orcs or goblins.
Peeeerhaps Chaos Dwarfs?
Dont really see the renaisans in skaven either.
Or Dwarfs.
And honestly, im not sure steampunk can make a claim to always have been a part of the Empire style either (or GW ought to claim they invented the stuff).
After all, you probably didnt critque the flying elf chariot for not being renaisans/steampunk when it showed up.
The rumor was that the new Skaven will play up the steampunk angle a little more.
I think everything looks great. The only thing the Sigmarites have in common with marines is that they are wearing all encompassing armor and the have face masks like Blood Angels, thats it. Can't wait for this!
Hmm. So pretty much the people that we trust were right, and the people we don't were making stuff up again.
Actually surprised Harry & Arthurius didn't get a few partial false. They were on the forefront of "mixed humans from different parts"-rumour-front.
Harry wrote: The human faction will be more than just Sigmar Knights ... it will have regular Humans in it and everyting and I think the Chaos in the box will be Khorne themed.
Arthurius11 wrote:As Harry said the human faction is not going to be just "sigmar knights". And the chaos is a mix of khorne models with warriors and demons and a pretty cool character model
Hmm. So pretty much the people that we trust were right, and the people we don't were making stuff up again.
Actually surprised Harry & Arthurius didn't get a few partial false. They were on the forefront of "mixed humans from different parts"-rumour-front.
Harry wrote: The human faction will be more than just Sigmar Knights ... it will have regular Humans in it and everyting and I think the Chaos in the box will be Khorne themed.
Arthurius11 wrote:As Harry said the human faction is not going to be just "sigmar knights". And the chaos is a mix of khorne models with warriors and demons and a pretty cool character model
I actually enjoyed the semi-historical nature of the previous incarnation of Warhammer, and the way the history of that world supported battles.
This looks like all the idiocy that has been cropping up in 40k from time to time distilled into one new form. I get it, they want something with unique IP that they can clearly own.
Wow! Just... wow.... I literally speechless at what they've done. Not much to go on from just two pictures, but, it's going to be a very different game for sure.
I'm torn.. I need to see clearer pics, and hopefully some more details of what is coming after this box.. right now.. I can't be certain I am ordering it.
One female model in either faction would probably have got me to give it a try, but once again.. seems GW can only see one Gender.. in their pseudo Medieval world that made a little bit of sense.. but with this new direction it makes none.
They've definitely thrown the baby out with the bathwater it would appear.... I'm really on the fence - initial reaction was nausea - and I still don't like the Sigmarines at all, but if the rules are solid and the elves are reasonable then I'll still play the game. Pre-ordering is looking pretty unlikely now though after seeing the box content...
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Nothing is "played here" until people put it a little leg-work and start getting a game community going.
More than ever I feel stunned when people refused to give KoW (or other systems) a go when the rules are free, and they own the models they would need. Meanwhile it is an almost universally lauded game system, with an incredibly balanced (and still free) second edition coming out... all from a consumer-centric company that will happily spent development resources giving WHFB refugees army lists (again, free), for models they don't even produce analogs of.
If right now isn't the best chance Mantic will ever have to get people mass playing KoW, I don't know what is.
scarletsquig wrote:Mantic have already noticed that themselves, and the facebook jokes have begun.
JuniorRS13 wrote:I've been playing 40k exclusively for years
Judging by those pics, you still will be.
Shadowclaimer wrote:And Mantic has quite a bit of inspiration pulled from a hundred other sources too.
Pretending they invented Angelic Paladins is absurd lol
Nobody pretended they did. But that just piles up even more evidence against the fanboy view that GW's games and worlds are special unique little diamonds that can't be matched, or even bettered, anywhere else. (Or used outside the GW electric fence)
It's sad - the core of Warhammer fantasy used to be about common man banding together to fend of the horrors of the world. The fluff says it all the time "the men of the empire might not be a match for an Orc/Chaos whatever/beastmen/etc - but fighting side by side and looking out for their brothers in arms they stand a chance."
Now we have super-powered Sig-Marines vs. super powered "skulls skulls skulls" Chaos. *sigh*
*pours out a 40 on the curb for the beloved dead setting*
What is that knight riding? Is that guy riding Battle Cat in gold plate? It looks more cat like than the whatever-griffs they came out with last time for the empire that were the stunted flightless gryphons or somesuch.
I don't now for sure, but I think it heralds the coming of Gozer .
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: The legs on the golden boys' armor look a lot like the leg on Sororitas power armor. Is that a sign?
Yes. It's a sign that reveals why there have been no new Sisters releases... Sigmar stole their armour.
I'm quite conflicted on this release. On the one hand, it's a massive departure from what WHFB has been up to now, and sort of cements my intention to dig out my 4th edition stuff when I'm ready to start playing WHFB again. I liked the more-or-less generic fantasy-ness of the setting. It's what made that game appealing.
On the other hand, the models shown, as much as can be made out from those pics, look awesome. I can't help but think that more of them are going to be used in 40K Chaos or Space Marine armies than in the game they're intended for, though.
is it just me or do those round bases look like the new Space Marine bases ? and that being said that horse/mounted looking creature appears to have a flavor of the TK giant cavalry.
on another note , I am super excited to put my Tomb Kings to good use !
What is that knight riding? Is that guy riding Battle Cat in gold plate? It looks more cat like than the whatever-griffs they came out with last time for the empire that were the stunted flightless gryphons or somesuch.
I don't now for sure, but I think it heralds the coming of Gozer
Brilliant.
I think it's some kind of wingless dragon or drake mount, or some other kind of reptilian creature. You can tell because, instead of the old style Trish reptilian monsters that all had the same wibbly-lipped deep-sea-fish mouth and crusty gravel rubbed into it's back, it's a new style Seb reptilian monster with giant mammalian canines and 'raptor' claws.
I'm pretty sure these guys aren't The Empire as we know it. They are, for want of a better analogy, the Space Marines of the setting, and I'd be amazed if the Empire with its hordes of peasants and militias doesn't remain as the Imperial Guard equivalent. They may well be drawn from the same faction, even the same list as the 'Sigmarines', but I'm certain they'll still be around.
Paradigm wrote: I'm pretty sure these guys aren't The Empire as we know it. They are, for want of a better analogy, the Space Marines of the setting, and I'd be amazed if the Empire with its hordes of peasants and militias doesn't remain as the Imperial Guard equivalent. They may well be drawn from the same faction, even the same list as the 'Sigmarines', but I'm certain they'll still be around.
It will be interesting to see if all infantry models will need to be stuck on 32mm round bases... I think a little night goblin or puny skeleton archer stuck on a 32mm base is going to look ridiculous - you could probably fit two night goblins to a single 32mm base! But there will be models in the existing range which will look awesome on those large round bases, things like phoenix guard, temple guards and black orcs... Interesting times
Pepticsalve wrote: It will be interesting to see if all infantry models will need to be stuck on 32mm round bases... I think a little night goblin or puny skeleton archer stuck on a 32mm base is going to look ridiculous - you could probably fit two night goblins to a single 32mm base! But there will be models in the existing range which will look awesome on those large round bases, things like phoenix guard, temple guards and black orcs... Interesting times
Pepticsalve wrote: It will be interesting to see if all infantry models will need to be stuck on 32mm round bases... I think a little night goblin or puny skeleton archer stuck on a 32mm base is going to look ridiculous - you could probably fit two night goblins to a single 32mm base! But there will be models in the existing range which will look awesome on those large round bases, things like phoenix guard, temple guards and black orcs... Interesting times
Pepticsalve wrote: It will be interesting to see if all infantry models will need to be stuck on 32mm round bases... I think a little night goblin or puny skeleton archer stuck on a 32mm base is going to look ridiculous - you could probably fit two night goblins to a single 32mm base! But there will be models in the existing range which will look awesome on those large round bases, things like phoenix guard, temple guards and black orcs... Interesting times
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: For me, the empire was always about the average guy, the honest man, picking up a spear to defend his town from rampaging orcs/skaven/undead/chaos.
These Empire guys look too heroic, too uber, too way the hell out there.
The irony is Chaos is staying the same. They're the one's that are supposed to warp and change
There has been less and less of that for a very long time now. (I really miss the random tables in the RoC hardcovers.)
xowainx wrote: I dig them, but it's somewhat ironic that they appear to have made Mantic Basileans.
My exact thought... and now the circle of creation is complete.
The Auld Grump
As someone who's collecting all the Reaper Paladin-types I can get my hands on, I've just had a dangerous thought; a AoS/KoW army with Reaper PCs as leaders, Sigmarines as elite troops, throw in some Basealien cavalry and Paladins, maybe some Sisters... The ultimate in Holy Crusading... This might get expensive if I can ever find a gaming group that would give me a reason to go through with it!
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: The legs on the golden boys' armor look a lot like the leg on Sororitas power armor. Is that a sign?
Yes. It's a sign that reveals why there have been no new Sisters releases... Sigmar stole their armour.
This actually makes perfect sense!
Maybe I will be able to use my SoB as Sisters of Sigmar ++ now, though .
Finally I can play all my GW miniatures together, Sisters of Sigbattle allied with Lizardwomen!
I don't like the idea now, but I think this is going to sell well with the younger crowd.
And that is exactly the point, right? The new game would be a commercial failure if only existing fantasy players picked it up... I think games workshop would rather lose all existing players and bring in a completely new (and hopefully bigger) group of players to take over.
Its just a shame that they couldn't spawn off a 9th edition continuation of traditional warhammer, while at the same time introducing the new skirmish Sigmar game, and have some overlap with sharing minatures etc to keep overheads down. Then both camps would be happy. Maybe that will still happen, I suppose until we see a full rule book we still have no idea what we are getting.....
namiel wrote: Im excited for this but im NOT by any means getting rid of my 8th edition stuff. I have a feeling plenty of people will just keep playing that.
Since this seems to be aesthetically, stylistically and mechanically entirely different from any current WFB, I really fail to see how AoS supersedes 8th other than 'cos GW said it does'. Sadly, that'll be enough for lots of people, but saying this 'replaces' 8th armies/rules is like saying that a new Lamborghini 'replaces' a Land Rover. (Ie. It really doesn't!)
Hm, doesn't matter that much for me personally but i hope this isnt going to be the entirely new look for empire, i think their more realistic one was cooler.
I guess logically these would be space marines and empire would play the part of ig ...
Not bad looking models, if a bit honour guardy (or uh sanguinary guardy). Pretty smart on one hand, lots of conversion potential.
Am i the only one who thinks the chaos dudes with masks look a bit like wracks (on roids) ?
What is that knight riding? Is that guy riding Battle Cat in gold plate? It looks more cat like than the whatever-griffs they came out with last time for the empire that were the stunted flightless gryphons or somesuch.
I don't now for sure, but I think it heralds the coming of Gozer
Brilliant.
I think it's some kind of wingless dragon or drake mount, or some other kind of reptilian creature. You can tell because, instead of the old style Trish reptilian monsters that all had the same wibbly-lipped deep-sea-fish mouth and crusty gravel rubbed into it's back, it's a new style Seb reptilian monster with giant mammalian canines and 'raptor' claws.
I dunno. I still think He Man should be welcoming his fellow cat riding flowing cape plate wearing Sigmarines to the Eternia bubble universe.
I'm looking at the chaos models as a cheap option for Forsaken and Chosen. The marauder-y guys will be forsaken, the pumped up warriors will be chosen. The sigmarite stuff does look like Warmahordes had a baby with Space Marines. If WMH wasn't a thing, those would look like an interesting new concept that marks the divide between fantasy and 40k. As it is, they're ripping off PP. I'd laugh my ass off if they tried to sue PP and got countersued into oblivion and PP won the entire line of Warhammer.
namiel wrote: Im excited for this but im NOT by any means getting rid of my 8th edition stuff. I have a feeling plenty of people will just keep playing that.
Since this seems to be aesthetically, stylistically and mechanically entirely different from any current WFB, I really fail to see how AoS supersedes 8th other than 'cos GW said it does'. Sadly, that'll be enough for lots of people, but saying this 'replaces' 8th armies/rules is like saying that a new Lamborghini 'replaces' a Land Rover. (Ie. It really doesn't!)
that's just it, gw NEVER said this was a 9th edition fantasy they called it a NEW game in the WHFB IP. Yes its wildly different but yes its been said by gw that all of the old model range will be usable in AOS. So this is not a Lamborghini replacing a land rover its ditching the lambo for the range rover. That's gw's choice and that's what they did. I am just saying I think many people will keep their lambo's too.
-DE- wrote: I dub the Sigmarine commander Me-Han, the 100% Original Creation of the Games Workshop Design Team, no External Influence Whatsoever.
Yup, that is the first thing that came to mind for the cavalry guy for me as well (and who spilled custodes/sanguinary guard all over WHFB for the others). I posted a comparison pic a few posts above latter on as well.
very good looking models which I knew they would be but..... I miss the old our armour sucks and we have very old looking gear look :( and the pajamas looking men at arms.
namiel wrote: Im excited for this but im NOT by any means getting rid of my 8th edition stuff. I have a feeling plenty of people will just keep playing that.
Since this seems to be aesthetically, stylistically and mechanically entirely different from any current WFB, I really fail to see how AoS supersedes 8th other than 'cos GW said it does'. Sadly, that'll be enough for lots of people, but saying this 'replaces' 8th armies/rules is like saying that a new Lamborghini 'replaces' a Land Rover. (Ie. It really doesn't!)
that's just it, gw NEVER said this was a 9th edition fantasy they called it a NEW game in the WHFB IP. Yes its wildly different but yes its been said by gw that all of the old model range will be usable in AOS. So this is not a Lamborghini replacing a land rover its ditching the lambo for the range rover. That's gw's choice and that's what they did. I am just saying I think many people will keep their lambo's too.
To clarify, I agree entirely with what you're saying; there's no real reason not to keep playing with 8th if you have the necessary material while also playing and enjoying Age of Sigmar. The two are such different beasts that other than being made by the same company there's very little connection between the two, and hence very little reason (as a player) to feel you can't play both!
Paradigm wrote: I'm pretty sure these guys aren't The Empire as we know it. They are, for want of a better analogy, the Space Marines of the setting, and I'd be amazed if the Empire with its hordes of peasants and militias doesn't remain as the Imperial Guard equivalent. They may well be drawn from the same faction, even the same list as the 'Sigmarines', but I'm certain they'll still be around.
This is almost certainly correct.
And everyone probably realizes that at some level, but why act reasonable when you can get some nerdrage going on a Friday afternoon?
namiel wrote: Im excited for this but im NOT by any means getting rid of my 8th edition stuff. I have a feeling plenty of people will just keep playing that.
Since this seems to be aesthetically, stylistically and mechanically entirely different from any current WFB, I really fail to see how AoS supersedes 8th other than 'cos GW said it does'. Sadly, that'll be enough for lots of people, but saying this 'replaces' 8th armies/rules is like saying that a new Lamborghini 'replaces' a Land Rover. (Ie. It really doesn't!)
that's just it, gw NEVER said this was a 9th edition fantasy they called it a NEW game in the WHFB IP. Yes its wildly different but yes its been said by gw that all of the old model range will be usable in AOS. So this is not a Lamborghini replacing a land rover its ditching the lambo for the range rover. That's gw's choice and that's what they did. I am just saying I think many people will keep their lambo's too.
To clarify, I agree entirely with what you're saying; there's no real reason not to keep playing with 8th if you have the necessary material while also playing and enjoying Age of Sigmar. The two are such different beasts that other than being made by the same company there's very little connection between the two, and hence very little reason (as a player) to feel you can't play both!
exactly since the rumors are all the new rules for the "old" armies will be free online until books are put out for sale. Even then the information I got from a good place was that there will be 4 books
streetsamurai wrote: yeah, but a rumour said that theu were a thing of the past. And that starter set from now on would only include regular multipart models.
Guess that in the next few weeks, they will release the multi part version of the sigmarites, and new marauders and warrior.
Eh, possibly not. We still don't have Chosen or Cultists, or even Deffkoptas from Black Reach. They might leave them in the starter to get people to buy it.
Newp. That just means that existing models can still be used (and is that still a rumour, unconfirmed by an official GW announcement?) not that the Empire is still around. They all died, remember? The world blew up. This is another world with an area called Regalia, no doubt with races that are a wee bit more easily legally protected than HRE zweihanders and the like.
warboss wrote:
I dunno. I still think He Man should be welcoming his fellow cat riding flowing cape plate wearing Sigmarines to the Eternia bubble universe.
Believe me, that was the first thing that popped into my head.
timetowaste85 wrote:I'm looking at the chaos models as a cheap option
gorgon wrote:
And everyone probably realizes that at some level, but why act reasonable when you can get some nerdrage going on a Friday afternoon?
Oh, I agree it's likely that some empire-ish models may turn up sooner or later, but I don't think people saying 'this is certainly what GW will do (because I don't want them not to)' is an airtight source.
Also, I think it's kind of ironic that someone always turns up just to hiss and snarl about 'nerdrage'. Convenient little handwavey strawman, but not a very self-aware one.
streetsamurai wrote: yeah, but a rumour said that theu were a thing of the past. And that starter set from now on would only include regular multipart models.
Guess that in the next few weeks, they will release the multi part version of the sigmarites, and new marauders and warrior.
Eh, possibly not. We still don't have Chosen or Cultists, or even Deffkoptas from Black Reach. They might leave them in the starter to get people to buy it.
true enough, but I can't imagine that such indispensable unit as Marauders and Chaos warriors (since supposedly, retailers have been told that the current ones are oop), not to mention the core of a whole new army, will only be available as snapfit from the starter set. But looking at them a bit more closely, I'm actually not sure that they are snap fit. Guess we will have our ansewr soon enough
Newp. That just means that existing models can still be used (and is that still a rumour, unconfirmed by an official GW announcement?) not that the Empire is still around. They all died, remember? The world blew up. This is another world with an area called Regalia, no doubt with races that are a wee bit more easily legally protected than HRE zweihanders and the like.
Regalia is also an unconfirmed rumor at this point.
Doesn't matter if the exact "empire" is destroyed, as long as there are weedy humans with feathers in their hats. :-)
I think they are probably snap fit, there are a good few repeated models in the pictures. A caveat to that would be some recent multi part models (the Skitarii/ Ad Mech especially) have had very limited poses. But having seen what GW did with IOB and then DV it is clear that snap fit models are coming on leaps and bounds from what were once very poor alternatives to multi part miniatures.
The sigmarines definitely are monopose. The ten "basic" troopers with hammers and shields are grouped into two units, each of which have the same five sculpts. The chaos are a little harder to tell, but I can't imagine that one army would be snap-fit and the other wouldn't.
streetsamurai wrote: yeah, but a rumour said that theu were a thing of the past. And that starter set from now on would only include regular multipart models.
Guess that in the next few weeks, they will release the multi part version of the sigmarites, and new marauders and warrior.
Eh, possibly not. We still don't have Chosen or Cultists, or even Deffkoptas from Black Reach. They might leave them in the starter to get people to buy it.
true enough, but I can't imagine that such indispensable unit as Marauders and Chaos warriors (since supposedly, retailers have been told that the current ones are oop), not to mention the core of a whole new army, will only be available as snapfit from the starter set. But looking at them a bit more closely, I'm actually not sure that they are snap fit. Guess we will have our ansewr soon enough
Cultist from Dark Vengeance are the only way to get them. It's not that far fetched to think GW would do that for a time at least. Also, there is no way to know if the core of an army will remain the same.
xowainx wrote: I dig them, but it's somewhat ironic that they appear to have made Mantic Basileans.
My exact thought... and now the circle of creation is complete.
The Auld Grump
As someone who's collecting all the Reaper Paladin-types I can get my hands on, I've just had a dangerous thought; a AoS/KoW army with Reaper PCs as leaders, Sigmarines as elite troops, throw in some Basealien cavalry and Paladins, maybe some Sisters... The ultimate in Holy Crusading... This might get expensive if I can ever find a gaming group that would give me a reason to go through with it!
How dare you use miniatures from a variety of companies to play a variety of games! (Add a roleplaying game to the mix, just to round it out.... )
The Auld Grump - the Basilean Sisters are being used as Sisters of Sigmar in our current Mordheim game... they are still getting stomped by everyone but the Dwarfs....
gorgon wrote:
And everyone probably realizes that at some level, but why act reasonable when you can get some nerdrage going on a Friday afternoon?
Oh, I agree it's likely that some empire-ish models may turn up sooner or later, but I don't think people saying 'this is certainly what GW will do (because I don't want them not to)' is an airtight source.
Also, I think it's kind of ironic that someone always turns up just to hiss and snarl about 'nerdrage'. Convenient little handwavey strawman, but not a very self-aware one.
Well, I don't necessarily expect guys with poofy sleeves to show up. I suspect that most kids find Empire to be rather lame-looking, even as it might appeal to us older folks with more historical leanings.
Hastings laid it out the other day. WFB was going to die without a shakeup. It was likely well past the point at which vets buying a few more boxes of existing stuff because of an 'improved' 9th edition would be enough to reverse its fortunes. What the vets do is probably almost irrelevant at this point. SMs hook kids like crazy for 40K, and IMO it's actually a pretty solid business plan to finally introduce an equivalent beginner's army -- with a more...modern(?) high fantasy aesthetic -- to WFB.
And it'd only be a strawman if I said that everyone criticizing the models was nerdraging. That's obviously not the case; but there are clearly responses in this thread that aren't well-considered or thoughtful.
Christ almighty, if there is one thing that actually DOES get me annoyed it's having mild negative comments like "these models are very competently made, but not my cup of tea" characterised as "nerdrage" or "screaming".
Learn to appreciate nuance and degrees of opinion lads. Haven't seen any negative people screaming or claiming the sky is falling- mostly just expressing mild disapproval of models that they don't like!
@Vermis: I say "cheap" because chosen are currently $40 for 5, and forsaken are $50 for 10. I'm reasonably positive I will be able to get the chaos side for considerably less than $90. Probably around $40 to $50 for the full side, minus rules. So yeah, that falls into the realm of cheap for those models.
I really like the look of that Khorne guy with the whip in the back and the ...spawn? Lots of skulls everywhere thankfully, gotta keep things warhammer-ish. I love all of these models, but boy they look a lot more challenging to paint than I was expecting.
Beautiful looking minis, not precisely what I'm looking for in the 'Empire' department (I really did like the renaissance look for 'em) but the Chaos fellas look quite good, the commander/hero units look really, really fun but I'm just not that keen on the overall aesthetic.
The roided up Chaos warriors are a bit too ott hench for my liking, they'd make even Conan shy!
Still, that said... As it stands I'd definitely consider going halvesies on one of these sets depending on price, say what you will about GW but I've always found their starter sets to be a lot of fun.
In preparation of the new stuff, I'm making a thread over in the fantasy section for splitting up the AoS box: partner up if you only want half the box and find someone you can agree on shipping with!
timetowaste85 wrote: In preparation of the new stuff, I'm making a thread over in the fantasy section for splitting up the AoS box: partner up if you only want half the box and find someone you can agree on shipping with!
Great idea! Was hoping someone would do this... :-)
Well the two chaos units only one has a standard and musician so maybe the two go together now you have a 20 man unit then a 5 man warrior unit, the bsb, the beastmaster and giant gribbly and the chaos lord.
I've got the GW/plastic kitbash bug again recently and am working on cultist "marauders" for my brothers WHFB Chaos and my Word Bearers/LatD, plus sculpting a BIG sprinting Chaos warrior for BB.
I think I won't have to sculpt cast bigger and longer legs for my Marines anymore Use the legs here to un-dwarf CSM and give robed lower bodies and guns to the new marauders to make them look like Paul Muller cultists. Win-win. And I get a not-a-blob spwan on top of it!
As a hobbyist I'm happy for that alone. As someone who likes 20 man blocks of dudes in the cabinet and LOVES the Warhammer world that has been a part of my life for, uh, 18 years, I DON'T KNOW. Sigmarine models look damn cool in a ridiculois way, but not a WARHAMMER way. It's not twisted, crazy, rough, manic and there's not a single rat with a peg leg or some other nightmare that populate the older illustrations. Those were over-the-top and ridiculous, but in their own way. The poor world was blown up and bubbled back together? URGH!
Rules? Eh, I never really played, anyway, and IF I do I can chose the edition and all (because I know my brother rather well), but I liked the movement and morale system that 8th already tampered with. I'd actually try a good skirmish game, but I.don't.trust.the.current.studio.
I don't know how to feel. I hope the starter won't be 150€, though. And I hope ebay will have as many battlecats for cheap as it used to have HE gryphon riders! One in every colour of the rainbow for all the schools of magic would be ace.
If they killed warhammer FB totally and drove away all old fans, and relaunched Mordheim as it was. I am sure they would have recruited a larger player mass, with that alone, than they currently have and will get with these Blood Angels In Middle Earth and weird secret 9th edition.
Players want a fast quick game in the 2010's. Its generation quick, generation ADHD. A fast true skirmish game with 5-12 models would do well.
Thargrim wrote: ... Lots of skulls everywhere thankfully, gotta keep things warhammer-ish. I love all of these models, but boy they look a lot more challenging to paint than I was expecting.
cerealkiller195 wrote: but what i really dont get is why 8 guys need a standard and musician.. they are barely a rabble at that point
I think historically you would have 1 fife and 1 drummer (depending on nation/time period etc, could be bugles or bagpipes and so on) per company of men. A company is usually 100+ men. As far as I have read, with some exceptions in most historical periods it's usually 100+ men to a company.
So yes having a musician with any less than that is pretty silly, especially if he is expected to run around like they do in fantasy fighting to the death, which is also terribly silly.
What bugs me though, is the fact that this poor trumpeter/horn blower is actually playing orders for what looks like multiple units. That means he has to know 3 different sets of order music so he can actually play for all these groups. Otherwise the groups would have no easy way of knowing who these orders are being relayed to. The chaos side will suffer in reality if they rely on this horn man for accurate battle orders. At this scale the commander would have to simply jog to each group and tell their respective officers orders by ear.
I had a feeling something was strange about this release and I just figured out what it was; no wizards!Very strange to see only warrior and creature models. I wonder if the characters will have access to divine powers or something.
RiTides wrote: Are the bases of most of the Empire models 32mm in that pic?
I'd say so.
Most of the models in the leaked pics seem ok, although certainly not my taste for a medieval fantasy setting. In fact, it doesn't matter how they call it, this is not Warhammer Fantasy for me.
I guess some Blood Angels and Khorne CSM players will manage to make something out of the box, there certainly seems to be some conversion potential there.
timetowaste85 wrote: I'm looking at the chaos models as a cheap option for Forsaken and Chosen. The marauder-y guys will be forsaken, the pumped up warriors will be chosen. The sigmarite stuff does look like Warmahordes had a baby with Space Marines. If WMH wasn't a thing, those would look like an interesting new concept that marks the divide between fantasy and 40k. As it is, they're ripping off PP. I'd laugh my ass off if they tried to sue PP and got countersued into oblivion and PP won the entire line of Warhammer.
Except PP just ripped off Blizzard. Everyone "rips off" everyone, that's how things work. Just like Mantic were not the first but just one of a thousand people to use the idea of "angelic knights".
Da Boss wrote: Christ almighty, if there is one thing that actually DOES get me annoyed it's having mild negative comments like "these models are very competently made, but not my cup of tea" characterised as "nerdrage" or "screaming".
Learn to appreciate nuance and degrees of opinion lads. Haven't seen any negative people screaming or claiming the sky is falling- mostly just expressing mild disapproval of models that they don't like!
I haven't seen anyone calling reasonable, negative posts "nerdrage". I HAVE seen some crazy hyperbole though, along the lines of "GW has destroyed everything, I'm selling all my stuff" étc.
timetowaste85 wrote: I'm looking at the chaos models as a cheap option for Forsaken and Chosen. The marauder-y guys will be forsaken, the pumped up warriors will be chosen. The sigmarite stuff does look like Warmahordes had a baby with Space Marines. If WMH wasn't a thing, those would look like an interesting new concept that marks the divide between fantasy and 40k. As it is, they're ripping off PP. I'd laugh my ass off if they tried to sue PP and got countersued into oblivion and PP won the entire line of Warhammer.
Except PP just ripped off Blizzard. Everyone "rips off" everyone, that's how things work. People saying Sigmarines look like Basileans is hilarious. Yes, no one thought of the idea of angelic knights before Mantic.
Yeah, it's just GW who tries to pretend they created everything and sue everyone else!
Except PP just ripped off Blizzard. Everyone "rips off" everyone, that's how things work. People saying Sigmarines look like Basileans is hilarious. Yes, no one thought of the idea of angelic knights before Mantic.
The general point being made is this entire release and the similarities to other lines just sinks GW's insistence that GW comes up with these ideas, spontaneously and in isolation. This is turn makes this exact line of defense they used in a court of law seem even more farcical.
Mymearan wrote: [Except PP just ripped off Blizzard. Everyone "rips off" everyone, that's how things work. People saying Sigmarines look like Basileans is hilarious. Yes, no one thought of the idea of angelic knights before Mantic.
They do look like Basileans, to a degree, and Basileans were released earlier. I don't see how any of that is incorrect.
Mantic certainly didn't invent the concept of angelic knights. As GW has not invented virtually anything they produce, despite their claims during a certain lawsuit.
timetowaste85 wrote: I'm looking at the chaos models as a cheap option for Forsaken and Chosen. The marauder-y guys will be forsaken, the pumped up warriors will be chosen. The sigmarite stuff does look like Warmahordes had a baby with Space Marines. If WMH wasn't a thing, those would look like an interesting new concept that marks the divide between fantasy and 40k. As it is, they're ripping off PP. I'd laugh my ass off if they tried to sue PP and got countersued into oblivion and PP won the entire line of Warhammer.
Except PP just ripped off Blizzard. Everyone "rips off" everyone, that's how things work. People saying Sigmarines look like Basileans is hilarious. Yes, no one thought of the idea of angelic knights before Mantic.
Yeah, it's just GW who tries to pretend they created everything and sue everyone else!
Except PP just ripped off Blizzard. Everyone "rips off" everyone, that's how things work. People saying Sigmarines look like Basileans is hilarious. Yes, no one thought of the idea of angelic knights before Mantic.
The general point being made is this entire release and the similarities to other lines just sinks GW's insistence that GW comes up with these ideas, spontaneously and in isolation. This is turn makes this exact line of defense they used in a court of law seem even more farcical.
Korinov wrote:
Mymearan wrote: [Except PP just ripped off Blizzard. Everyone "rips off" everyone, that's how things work. People saying Sigmarines look like Basileans is hilarious. Yes, no one thought of the idea of angelic knights before Mantic.
They do look like Basileans, to a degree, and Basileans were released earlier. I don't see how any of that is incorrect.
Mantic certainly didn't invent the concept of angelic knights. As GW has not invented virtually anything they produce, despite their claims during a certain lawsuit.
Oh, the lawsuit? That horse has been reduced to a bloody pile of meat at this point from the collective beating it gets in every GW thread. I don't think anyone agrees with GWs (or rather, their legal team's) views in that regard anyway. Everything ever created was inspired by something that came before, to a greater or lesser degree.
Timetowaste: aye, I sorta got that. Sorry for the sniggering.
Avrik_Shasla wrote:Why are so many people screaming?
I'd get checked for tinnitus, mate.
Hold on to your boots, this release is going to be amazing.
Or it'll flop like a wet fish.
As people have said, yeah, these are competently made, and yeah, kids go for 40K's big shiny spays mureen aesthetic. But as people have also said, we don't know too much about the rules or prices (which are two metrics which have probably had a bigger effect on the popularity of GW games), and it seems like fewer kids are buying even space marines these days (and is it kids, or twenty-thirty-somethings with a similar vulnerability to dazzlement?)
I'm not saying it'll fail. Maybe this is where GW will turn it around. I dunno. I'm genuinely curious. We have only seen two pics. But again, that's no reason to be so certain about success, either. Years of GW pants-on-head management, player weariness, and Warhammer FB taken to the brink, vs. two 'oooh shiny' moments. We'll see how it plays out.
Desubot wrote:
People where complaining that they look too Space marineee.
still dont see it.l
I have the feeling that if you're immersed in one or both of GW's two core games for the vast majority (or totality) of your wargaming hobby, staring at the minis and art every day, the particular details and nuances of minis and factions will become ingrained and minor variations will be picked out. But when you take a metaphorical step or two back and start viewing a slightly bigger picture, the general look and theme becomes a bit more noticeable. (I know about that kind of thing meself. I can still recognise and recall a lot of details of minis and fluff. I used to be big into tyranids - I even had some tiny bit of an impact among some other fans - but these days I'd find it difficult to apply a name to any model released after 4th ed, except maybe the trygon. [an old Epic concept revamped by FW first.] They're all a blur of teeth and ribs and spikes.)
Point being, yeah, I can see how these are not like space marines. I can see the differences to the details of the ubiquitous mark 7 armour: shoulder pads (are these ones more protectable?), greaves, helmets, no nuclear-reactor backpack and so on. But if you take a step or two back and take in the whole ridonkulously chunky, thick-set 'plate' armour on glorious superhuman warrior 'angels' look, even without the greco-romanesque sculpting reminiscent of those... Blood Angel... thingies... and the identity of GW's best selling faction in their other game (in any of their games), it begins to pop out just a little more.
Why don't the Thunder Warriors have boltguns? Because that's what they are, right? Soldiers of the God King (or is it Emperor) arriving in flashes of light to unite humanity? Looks like they wear their shoulder pads upside down and forgot their power backpacks, though!
Hive City Dweller wrote: I had a feeling something was strange about this release and I just figured out what it was; no wizards!Very strange to see only warrior and creature models. I wonder if the characters will have access to divine powers or something.
Well, the Sigmarines are probably more like Divine Warriors/Clerics/Priests and Khorne, well, no wizards allowed there friend!
Literally nothing in those pictures says WARHAMMER to me.
If you had posted them saying they were the next release for Warmachine I wouldn't have given it a second thought.
If GW wanted to do something different why didn't they just do a new game. There was no need to kill Warhammer for this.
Guess I need to go panic buy the last dozens boxes of stuff I need for my high elves and Skaven. I can see the whole WFB range going the way of the dodo.
@Navarro - bingo. Which explains the sculpting. What better way to draw in players from 40K than to make a faction that looks almost exactly like something from that universe.
@Pretre - lol
Edit:
If they didn't suck so much, I'd buy these models to make a BA army.
Mymearan wrote: I haven't seen anyone calling reasonable, negative posts "nerdrage".
Really? I replied to two posts on that theme, one using that exact term.
And the point of everyone borrowing or taking influence from everything else is, as already mentioned, it makes the position of uberfans (much less GW itself) of GW's worlds being amazing unique little snowflakes that give them just what they want, something that can't be found anywhere else, a tad less tenable. It was already there, all written out; the first couple of glimpses we have of the changes in this new world, and the comparisons to PP, Mantic, Blizzard, and so on, just kinda pin it to the table. With a cricket-bat-sized steampunk dagger.
Well I dont have really anything to add since most of the things have been said BUT what is wrong with "panthers" feet. His paws/claws are positioned really strangely.
Tamereth wrote: Literally nothing in those pictures says WARHAMMER to me.
What about the warhammers? Don't those say Warhammer?
Oddly no they don't, they don't fit the aesthetic at all. If anything they look like a dwarf weapon from skyrim.
I can't see any of those new models being lined up next to the current WFB range and fitting in. I think even the chaos models would look out of place next to the current chaos warriors etc.
A few folks have mentioned the WoW similarities, but iirc WoW started off as a GW Warhammer game but they went their separate ways and blizzard went on and released their own game with elves, dwarfs, orcs and humans. Did quite well, I think.
Like the MEdge stuff, people see what they want to see. I don't see any space marine vibe, except the on the blood angel sanguinary guard face plates, which resemble ancient armour anyway? And SMs are basically Space Knights... In spaaaace!
Folks here made their minds up as soon as AoS was leaked, and nothing would change their minds about the models, rules or perceived value. Ahhhh, the Internet.
Tamereth wrote: Literally nothing in those pictures says WARHAMMER to me.
What about the warhammers? Don't those say Warhammer?
Oddly no they don't, they don't fit the aesthetic at all. If anything they look like a dwarf weapon from skyrim.
I can't see any of those new models being lined up next to the current WFB range and fitting in. I think even the chaos models would look out of place next to the current chaos warriors etc.
Dude, WHFB is dead. None of the current stuff fits in with the old stuff. We've moved on, whether we like it or not! The Sigmar dudes are, I think, a new faction, so there are no existing models to compare them to. Chaos is chaos. Bulky spikes and more spikes!
Angels in a faction where there's also a boss man on a battle cat...
Oh. Well then.
Seriously, I do like the models so if the rules are good and the prices are reasonable, I might give it a shot. So there's basically no chance I'll be giving it a shot.
Bottle wrote: Those mantic models look like gak compared to the GW sculpts
I agree.
What does that have to do with the fact that Mantic has an army of angels led by a Dude on a Battle Cat and made it before GW made their army of angels led by a Dude on a Battle Cat? Just because I did something gakkily doesn't mean that it's not my idea and not defensible under IP law.
Bottle wrote: Those mantic models look like gak compared to the GW sculpts
I think it looks nicer. It is not covered in useless crap that no soldier in their right mind would wear into combat. Can't see X amount of skulls per Center meter etc.
Plus I have this model and it is way nicer than it looks. Beats GW models in my opinion purely on design. But the model itself is pretty good as well. Especially with many of GW models setting the bar really low... like cadians.
Tamereth wrote: Literally nothing in those pictures says WARHAMMER to me.
What about the warhammers? Don't those say Warhammer?
Oddly no they don't, they don't fit the aesthetic at all. If anything they look like a dwarf weapon from skyrim.
I can't see any of those new models being lined up next to the current WFB range and fitting in. I think even the chaos models would look out of place next to the current chaos warriors etc.
Dude, WHFB is dead. None of the current stuff fits in with the old stuff. We've moved on, whether we like it or not!
Split personality or something? A few minutes before that you posted...
Folks here made their minds up as soon as AoS was leaked, and nothing would change their minds about the models, rules or perceived value. Ahhhh, the Internet.
So unless you know exactly what is coming you cannot really claim WHFB is dead or that the old stuff does not fit... because like all of us you know... nothing. Talk about people making their minds based on just personal convictions
As for "40k folks will be all over this" argument... will AOS not cannibalize 40k sales and vice versa? What is the gain here?
Tamereth wrote: Literally nothing in those pictures says WARHAMMER to me.
What about the warhammers? Don't those say Warhammer?
Oddly no they don't, they don't fit the aesthetic at all. If anything they look like a dwarf weapon from skyrim.
I can't see any of those new models being lined up next to the current WFB range and fitting in. I think even the chaos models would look out of place next to the current chaos warriors etc.
Dude, WHFB is dead. None of the current stuff fits in with the old stuff. We've moved on, whether we like it or not! The Sigmar dudes are, I think, a new faction, so there are no existing models to compare them to. Chaos is chaos. Bulky spikes and more spikes!
Yeah, this. The point was to make something that looked nothing like the old game. We won't see any new kits with the old aesthetic going forward. It's sigmarines all the way down!
Tamereth wrote: Literally nothing in those pictures says WARHAMMER to me.
If you had posted them saying they were the next release for Warmachine I wouldn't have given it a second thought.
If GW wanted to do something different why didn't they just do a new game. There was no need to kill Warhammer for this.
This IS a new game. This is Age of Sigmar - not Warhammer 9th.
While that is true, there is nothing saying that Age of Sigmar isn't the "beginner" version of what Warhammer 9th will be. Nor is it saying that there will even be a Warhammer 9th. This could very well be Warhammer's replacement.
As for "40k folks will be all over this" argument... will AOS not cannibalize 40k sales and vice versa? What is the gain here?
I remember seeing some Blizzard interview after they released Hearthstone. They were asked why they would make something that would take players from one of their existing games. Their reply was that the customer was still paying and playing Blizzard stuff and not going elsewhere.
I guess GW see people going from 40K to fantasy (aos) as still money for them and not elsewhere. In the current tabletop climate there's a lot of other places to go to now. And if all the financial info people post is anything to go by, then GW can't afford to lose many more customers to other companies.
As for "40k folks will be all over this" argument... will AOS not cannibalize 40k sales and vice versa? What is the gain here?
I remember seeing some Blizzard interview after they released Hearthstone. They were asked why they would make something that would take players from one of their existing games. Their reply was that the customer was still paying and playing Blizzard stuff and not going elsewhere.
I guess GW see people going from 40K to fantasy (aos) as still money for them and not elsewhere. In the current tabletop climate there's a lot of other places to go to now. And if all the financial info people post is anything to go by, then GW can't afford to lose many more customers to other companies.
Wish that occurred to them before they axed their specialist range instead of supporting it.
Bottle wrote: Those mantic models look like gak compared to the GW sculpts
I agree.
What does that have to do with the fact that Mantic has an army of angels led by a Dude on a Battle Cat and made it before GW made their army of angels led by a Dude on a Battle Cat? Just because I did something gakkily doesn't mean that it's not my idea and not defensible under IP law.
GW also had a faction of space orks wielding claw-like close combat weapons and driving ramshackle buggies. Just sayin'
I hear Mordheim, Necromunda and Epic all had communities that tweaked the rules and kept the games going online.
Anyone likely to do that for Warhammer, depending on heresy rules.
As anyone who has played any GW game knows, part of the problem in saying 'just stick with th edition you like' is the range is up to dated ness of all the factions. Some are well out dated and lack some essential elements in every edition.
If 8th was complete in this sense, I would be totally up for continuing with it alone.
monders wrote:A few folks have mentioned the WoW similarities, but iirc WoW started off as a GW Warhammer game but they went their separate ways and blizzard went on and released their own game with elves, dwarfs, orcs and humans. Did quite well, I think.
Yeah, but the aesthetic of the armour they put on those not-Warhammer elves, dwarfs and orcs diverged significantly from GW's look. (Armour at the least. I look at a purple WoW elf with ears that literally stick out a foot from their head and muscles like the Hulk, and think 'whaa...?') With the chunkified sigmarines it does seem like GW wants a piece of that pie they planted that's erm... coming home to roost... gathering no moss... uh...
Although, that could mean they... re... researched... the market!
Like the MEdge stuff, people see what they want to see. I don't see any space marine vibe, except the on the blood angel sanguinary guard face plates, which resemble ancient armour anyway? And SMs are basically Space Knights... In spaaaace!
I guess they're running around in the plate equivalent of skinny jeans, then.
Folks here made their minds up as soon as AoS was leaked, and nothing would change their minds about the models, rules or perceived value. Ahhhh, the Internet.
Yeah, like 'can't wait to see these new minis that're bound to be great! Ah, they're new and unique and nothing at all like SMs or PP or WoW!'
I'm not saying - we're not saying that they're bad. They just have a style that some people will like and that some aren't looking for. But if you think they have no influence from anywhere else or it's not somehow telling, it's like, c'mon.
Bottle wrote:@vermis why do you bother posting in this thread so much when you don't care for warhammer in the slightest and just want to piss on people's parade?
Because I'm nerdraging.
Who said I don't care? Certainly wouldn't be here if I didn't. I want to look at and evaluate the shinies from GW's significant new thing, like everyone else. I'm just doing it from one or two steps back.
(I just wish some of these non-sequiturs didn't keep getting in the way)
Slaanesh-Devotee wrote: I hear Mordheim, Necromunda and Epic all had communities that tweaked the rules and kept the games going online.
Anyone likely to do that for Warhammer, depending on heresy rules.
As anyone who has played any GW game knows, part of the problem in saying 'just stick with th edition you like' is the range is up to dated ness of all the factions. Some are well out dated and lack some essential elements in every edition.
If 8th was complete in this sense, I would be totally up for continuing with it alone.
Even better, there's a small but growing community dedicated to playing Warhammer 3rd Edition.. Google Oldhammer...
I like the idea of a more skirmishy, warbandish game.
I like the idea of updating the clunky old Chaos miniatures.
But I can't get over the fact that it's not really Warhammer at all, now that the fluff has been gutted, and the fact that those awful Sigmarines are so utterly distant to the existing aesthetic just reinforces that sense of loss.
Pass. I'll wait for better pics of the Chaos models and maybe grab a few off eBay at some point, and I suppose if I develop a burning, irresistible desire to build an Adeptus Custodes army in the next 6-18 months before FW do them better I might look again at those atrocious Paladins of Derp, but obviously I'm not the kind of gamer GW are interested in any more.
Bottle wrote: Those mantic models look like gak compared to the GW sculpts
I agree.
What does that have to do with the fact that Mantic has an army of angels led by a Dude on a Battle Cat and made it before GW made their army of angels led by a Dude on a Battle Cat? Just because I did something gakkily doesn't mean that it's not my idea and not defensible under IP law.
GW also had a faction of space orks wielding claw-like close combat weapons and driving ramshackle buggies. Just sayin'
And indeed Mantic borrows heavily from GW. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with GW being inspired by Mantic's Basileans (if that's the case). The problem is GW going flying rodent gak over people "borrowing" from them when almost everything they do is "borrowed" from somewhere else.
Regardless, I am less on the "lolGW's stealing from Mantic!" bandwagon now it's been pointed out what I thought was a cat is actually some sort of reptile. Not completely off it, but I'm less critical of it now.
I like the idea of a more skirmishy, warbandish game.
I like the idea of updating the clunky old Chaos miniatures.
But I can't get over the fact that it's not really Warhammer at all, now that the fluff has been gutted, and the fact that those awful Sigmarines are so utterly distant to the existing aesthetic just reinforces that sense of loss.
Pass. I'll wait for better pics of the Chaos models and maybe grab a few off eBay at some point, and I suppose if I develop a burning, irresistible desire to build an Adeptus Custodes army in the next 6-18 months before FW do them better I might look again at those atrocious Paladins of Derp, but obviously I'm not the kind of gamer GW are interested in any more.
Back to Mordheim for me then.
Well for starters, we don't know what the rules are going to be like yet. So, enough mithering about what we don't know yet. Let's wait for next Saturday shall we?
wow!!!
it looks like i might finally paint some Fantasy minis!!!
as someone who grew up with He-Man, i approve of the Battlecat riding leader (yes, i can see it is a little wingless dragon creature, but i like the Battlecat reference)...
Khorne has always been my favorite Chaos God, so i like what i'm seeing...
as a painter, and not a gamer, i am happy...
i can still read all of my old books, and enjoy them just as much as i did 30 years ago, so i don't feel like i've lost anything with the demise of The Old World...
just like i can still paint my old Wood Elf Beastmasters if i want to...
if these are all snap fit minis, like the DV Chosen or the IOB leaders, then i am impressed...
some people may not like the aesthetic, but i am happy to see that GW continues to push the envelope with the evolution of their starter kits...
they have come a long way since the first plastic Fantasy Regiments box...
3xflying knights
3xfancy knights
5x hammer and shield knights
1xbattle cat and rider
1x std bearer
And
5x khorne knights
1x std bearer
1xkhorne lord
1xbig beast thing
1xbeast tamer
20x marauder
I suppose it could say 47 in which case it would be 10x hammer and shield knights seems like alot for a starter do we have a price yet as i can see this being £90-100
Angels in a faction where there's also a boss man on a battle cat...
Why Ratbot! Whatever do you call the form of weapon that battlecat-riding angels-faction gentleman is wielding?
Bottle wrote:Those mantic models look like gak compared to the GW sculpts
Ah come on, Bottle. Seriously now. Who'd just been calling out 'attacks' on people?
Agent_Tremolo wrote:
GW also had a faction of space orks wielding claw-like close combat weapons and driving ramshackle buggies. Just sayin'
In a mini range that was supposed to be a cheaper alternative to GW, as well as for a game that was supposed to be a more streamlined, balanced alternative to 40K. Shocker. I have to agree with Ratbot: I think the execution of some of the basileans was handled abysmally, but I have to give props to Mantic for at least trying a KoW faction that wasn't a carbon-copy Warhammer alternative. (In fact, I hadn't seen that particular lion rider. It's not too bad, y'know.)
Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:I hear Mordheim, Necromunda and Epic all had communities that tweaked the rules and kept the games going online.
As anyone who has played any GW game knows, part of the problem in saying 'just stick with th edition you like' is the range is up to dated ness of all the factions. Some are well out dated and lack some essential elements in every edition.
Part of the problem, IMO, is that the Warhammer community has latched a bit too firmly on to that 'buy to stay current' thing of GW's. Somewhat related to the fact that, like you say, newer faction updates get most of the nice new toys. Which is not to say that the older, outdated ones should just lump it.
If big-battle WFB was to have an actual 'ultimate' edition, made and policed by fans, I think there'd have to be some wee kind of paradigm shift and the realisation that no, it's no longer a matter of turning up at GW with both hands outstretched, waiting for the new, powerful, edition-tailored minis to drop. Balance in fanhammer wouldn't depend on meta shifts as the new-release pendulum swings back and forth, but on the 'fan police' self-policing: adjusting the mechanics, units, and points costs fairly, rather than clamouring for power for their pet armies. (I know some here on Dakka and elsewhere think the fan base is just the latter, bickering and shouting for different things, and would tear Warhammer apart if it got it's greasy mitts on the game; but I'm not so certain. See below.) It might mean some outdated factions would still have to go without certain elements, for a time. It might even mean some factions would have to have certain elements taken away.
But as you noted, it hasn't stopped those SG communities. Epic in particular... some people had old Space Marine (the 6mm game Space Marine) and Epic 40K armies lying around (especially for NetEpic, the already-existing fan version of older editions), but when the axe was dropped on Epic: Armageddon there were, oh, four factions released. SMs, IG, Orks and some Eldar. And a sprue of CSM infantry, IIRC. The ebay market became very important. Players adapted minis from other ranges, even converted, scratchbuilt, and sculpted their own. Proxy minis of differing quality popped up in new webshops, and on Shapeways, and are still popping up. In fact I'm dumping most of my old Epic SMs to redo them with minis from a couple of different ranges. While this happened, the rules committee formed under Jervis kept chugging, appointing army champions to army lists, playtesting and debating unit types and points costs with the community, and generally behaving in a gentlemanly manner. It's really quite heartwarming to see. It doesn't have the sheer resources, publicity, and flow of gamers that GW's remaining games have, and all that I mentioned isn't for everyone (hey, just like AoS!) but I personally think the Epic scene, since it's death, hasn't been more alive. (Heck, it even has segments who prefer different editions and iterations: NetEpic, NetEA, EpicUK etc. Happening to exist at the same time hasn't stopped their enjoyment of the basic game. Hasn't stopped oldhammerers, either!)
Or, or, there's a fantasy mass battle game that's growing in popularity, whose makers are scrambling to accommodate GW's waifs and strays with official army lists for their pre-9th armies. I'm not a KoW fanboy - I'd rank some other rules a bit higher - but it is a solid set and I think that current initiative by Mantic is a great opportunity for big-battle WFB fans who'll feel left out in the cold by 9th and at a loose end. (Note to fans who can't understand why other 'inferior' games are being mentioned in a GW topic: this is why.) You don't have to grab it with both hands, or at all, but it's definitely an option.
Tamereth wrote: Literally nothing in those pictures says WARHAMMER to me.
If you had posted them saying they were the next release for Warmachine I wouldn't have given it a second thought.
If GW wanted to do something different why didn't they just do a new game. There was no need to kill Warhammer for this.
This IS a new game. This is Age of Sigmar - not Warhammer 9th.
While that is true, there is nothing saying that Age of Sigmar isn't the "beginner" version of what Warhammer 9th will be. Nor is it saying that there will even be a Warhammer 9th. This could very well be Warhammer's replacement.
We just don't have enough information yet.
Warhammer is their premier brand. They are not dropping it in favor of "Age of Sigmar." They aren't going to now change all of their store names from Warhammer stores to Age of Sigmar stores. They won't be changing Warhammer 40,000 to Age of Sigmar 40,000 (though looking at the miniatures, you might think that was a possibility). Age of Sigmar will, in some way, lead to Warhammer 9th. I don't know what way that will be but this is not replacing Warhammer.
RatBot wrote:Regardless, I am less on the "lolGW's stealing from Mantic!" bandwagon now it's been pointed out what I thought was a cat is actually some sort of reptile. Not completely off it, but I'm less critical of it now.
What else did you expect to find raptor claws on? A bird? (Oh... oh wait....)
The difference is I don't go into the KoW threads to say how shockingly [MOD EDIT - Don't try and circumvent the expletive filter - Alpharius] the minatures look. In fact I don't go into KoW threads at all. If only KoW players did the same for WHFB threads...
Bottle wrote: The difference is I don't go into the KoW threads to say how shockingly shitastic the minatures look. In fact I don't go into KoW threads at all. If only KoW players did the same for WHFB threads...
Probably because 98% of the KoW players used to be WHFB players and check in on a game they used to love. It's doubtful that there are as many players who started in KoW and switched to WHFB. Going out on a limb on that one. Many of us have collected huge WH armies and want to know how valid they still are. Turns out another game company FOUNDED by ex-GW staff has a game that will let ALL those WHFB models retain use. Why wouldn't we want to help each other out with that knowledge? Of course, don't let any of those facts get on you. They'll tarnish your glowing white platemail.
Bottle wrote:The difference is I don't go into the KoW threads to say how shockingly shitastic the minatures look. In fact I don't go into KoW threads at all. If only KoW players did the same for WHFB threads...
Vermis wrote:Note to fans who can't understand why other 'inferior' games are being mentioned in a GW topic: this is why.
I think the gold color theme sort of does the models injustice. A different paint scheme would probably have me liking them more.
Not that i really care about deeply about either the Sigmar or Chaos faction directly. I think with a different scheme some of the Sigmarites could look pretty cool. The most plentifful hammer warriors are a touch bland for me, but the guys in the lower left are neat. They seem a bit more embellished. Battle cat man isn't really my cup of tea, but its a pretty decent looking mini. I can't see the angel dudes well enough to form an opinion.
The khorne guys... look neatish, but the pic's really out of focus.
Still, most of the stuff looks well done / attention to detail from the stuff i can get a clear look at. If this is the detail we have to look forward to, i'm looking forward to seeing new elven stuff.
Also, this thread really has gotten a touch silly. I get that people are passionate. I get that people disagree. But there's a point where point and counter-point devolves into just throwing words at one another on the internet for the sake of it. And then there's just trying to punch one another in the dick with magnetic ink.
Tamereth wrote: Literally nothing in those pictures says WARHAMMER to me.
If you had posted them saying they were the next release for Warmachine I wouldn't have given it a second thought.
If GW wanted to do something different why didn't they just do a new game. There was no need to kill Warhammer for this.
This IS a new game. This is Age of Sigmar - not Warhammer 9th.
While that is true, there is nothing saying that Age of Sigmar isn't the "beginner" version of what Warhammer 9th will be. Nor is it saying that there will even be a Warhammer 9th. This could very well be Warhammer's replacement.
We just don't have enough information yet.
Warhammer is their premier brand. They are not dropping it in favor of "Age of Sigmar." They aren't going to now change all of their store names from Warhammer stores to Age of Sigmar stores. They won't be changing Warhammer 40,000 to Age of Sigmar 40,000 (though looking at the miniatures, you might think that was a possibility). Age of Sigmar will, in some way, lead to Warhammer 9th. I don't know what way that will be but this is not replacing Warhammer.
This is Warhammer. GW will probably just call it Warhammer: Age of Sigmar.
Vermis wrote:
In fact, I hadn't seen that particular lion rider. It's not too bad, y'know.
It is actually pretty decent, until you look at the guys head... Mantic isn't nearly as bad as some people claim it to be (with exception of the the elves and part of the basilean ranges), but they absolutely suck at doing faces.
I will point out that these fellows are rumored to be the new 'Sigmarite' faction, not the regular Empire of current Fantasy. It is more than likely that regular Empire has made it in and that these fellows are not a replacement, but a new, most likely allied, faction to the Empire, as the Space Marines are to the Imperial Guard.
May I point out how weirdly similar the Chaos force is to the Dark Vengeance Chaos force? We have: 20 marauders (cultists), 5 Chosen (uhhh... Chosen, though DV has 6), a big hulking demonic fellow (Helbrute, they even have similar poses) and a lord, plus a few extra guys... It's uncannily similar.
Also, this thread really has gotten a touch silly. I get that people are passionate. I get that people disagree. But there's a point where point and counter-point devolves into just throwing words at one another on the internet for the sake of it. And then there's just trying to punch one another in the dick with magnetic ink.
Obviously I'm biased, but I see it like this:
"Wow! These models are great! Can't wait until they're released!"
"Oh, no, I really don't like that look. Looks silly to me. I'm going to pass."
"Why are you being negative? Stop nerdraging!"
"The huge suits of armour on these heroic superhuman warriors (long rumoured as 'fantasy space marines') look too much like the space marine aesthetic for my view of WFB."
"They look nothing like space marines!"
"Hee hee! Those angel guys look like the ones Mantic made!"
"GW didn't steal them, y'know!"
"Yeah, but, I was just saying, armoured angels..."
"Mantic stole their stuff too! And they're gak!"
"I don't really want to play ninth ed. I guess I'll just shelve or sell my armies."
"Well hang on! Here are some options you might like to check out, before you do."
"Keep your dirty non-GW games out of my GW thread!"
Not to dictate or guarantee, but if some people could just realise that other people will not like these models or what they represent for Warhammer, and that GW does not exist in a vacuum, I think things could be a bit calmer.
As an added bonus, I'd be a lot quieter.
nudibranch wrote: May I point out how weirdly similar the Chaos force is to the Dark Vengeance Chaos force? We have: 20 marauders (cultists), 5 Chosen (uhhh... Chosen, though DV has 6), a big hulking demonic fellow (Helbrute, they even have similar poses) and a lord, plus a few extra guys... It's uncannily similar.
Not just the chaos but also the DA force. You have a squad of Sigmarines (Which can be split up into two), one 3 man unit of I think fast-special attack, one unit of 3 (I know it was 5 in the box) heavies and a lord and a sorcerer
nudibranch wrote: May I point out how weirdly similar the Chaos force is to the Dark Vengeance Chaos force? We have: 20 marauders (cultists), 5 Chosen (uhhh... Chosen, though DV has 6), a big hulking demonic fellow (Helbrute, they even have similar poses) and a lord, plus a few extra guys... It's uncannily similar.
Not just the chaos but also the DA force. You have a squad of Sigmarines (Which can be split up into two), one 3 man unit of I think fast-special attack, one unit of 3 (I know it was 5 in the box) heavies and a lord and a sorcerer
I find myself utterly bewildered. I come to see what's up next for WFB (or "Age of Sigmar" which is supposed to replace it)... and discover that they've posted pictures of the next 40K box set featuring Space Marines vs. Chaos Space Marines.
I like the looks of the models myself and look forward to painting them. I wish that whoever took the pictures would take more of the rest of that white dwarf so we can get a rough idea of the game.
nudibranch wrote: I personally like the Sigmarites, I just feel the paint job lets them down. A more muted, weathered colour scheme would improve them a lot in my mind.
100% agree. Different color schemes will give these a different look. And I suspect that the pro painting crowd will do some pretty great stuff with them.
I like the lord on battlecat, and the angels and chaos models interest me.
Just waiting on the rules now. By and large I've dropped games-workshop in favor of other things but as others in this thread have said; this was my first love and I can't wait to see what they've done.
Everyone is saying they don't like the sigmar guys because they don't work with the existing aesthetic of the humans depicted in Fantasy. However my interpretation of the text below the picture is that these "Sigmarines" are not humans, they are something like a golem. The chaos gods have their worldly servants and their demons; if Sigmar is supposed to be the human god then it would make sense he would have his own summoned warriors, which we see here. This would easily explain the metallic faces.
On another note, I have a WIP tzeentch WoC force and seeing all this Khorne makes me cry.
CatMines wrote: Everyone is saying they don't like the sigmar guys because they don't work with the existing aesthetic of the humans depicted in Fantasy. However my interpretation of the text below the picture is that these "Sigmarines" are not humans, they are something like a golem. The chaos gods have their worldly servants and their demons; if Sigmar is supposed to be the human god then it would make sense he would have his own summoned warriors, which we see here. This would easily explain the metallic faces.
On another note, I have a WIP tzeentch WoC force and seeing all this Khorne makes me cry.
Raises the question, though, of where these holy warriors of holy amazingness were when Sigmars people were getting slaughtered wholesale by Skaven, Orcs and the forces of Chaos in the old Warhammer world
CatMines wrote: Everyone is saying they don't like the sigmar guys because they don't work with the existing aesthetic of the humans depicted in Fantasy. However my interpretation of the text below the picture is that these "Sigmarines" are not humans, they are something like a golem. The chaos gods have their worldly servants and their demons; if Sigmar is supposed to be the human god then it would make sense he would have his own summoned warriors, which we see here. This would easily explain the metallic faces.
On another note, I have a WIP tzeentch WoC force and seeing all this Khorne makes me cry.
Raises the question, though, of where these holy warriors of holy amazingness were when Sigmars people were getting slaughtered wholesale by Skaven, Orcs and the forces of Chaos in the old Warhammer world
The standard bearer seems to have a bared skull, so it might be "the honored dead" coming back for vengeance...
CatMines wrote: Everyone is saying they don't like the sigmar guys because they don't work with the existing aesthetic of the humans depicted in Fantasy. However my interpretation of the text below the picture is that these "Sigmarines" are not humans, they are something like a golem. The chaos gods have their worldly servants and their demons; if Sigmar is supposed to be the human god then it would make sense he would have his own summoned warriors, which we see here. This would easily explain the metallic faces.
On another note, I have a WIP tzeentch WoC force and seeing all this Khorne makes me cry.
Raises the question, though, of where these holy warriors of holy amazingness were when Sigmars people were getting slaughtered wholesale by Skaven, Orcs and the forces of Chaos in the old Warhammer world
Because they are an incarnation of Sigmar's holy wrath and didn't exist before the destruction of the old world. Duh.
nudibranch wrote: May I point out how weirdly similar the Chaos force is to the Dark Vengeance Chaos force? We have: 20 marauders (cultists), 5 Chosen (uhhh... Chosen, though DV has 6), a big hulking demonic fellow (Helbrute, they even have similar poses) and a lord, plus a few extra guys... It's uncannily similar.
Not just the chaos but also the DA force. You have a squad of Sigmarines (Which can be split up into two), one 3 man unit of I think fast-special attack, one unit of 3 (I know it was 5 in the box) heavies and a lord and a sorcerer
I noticed that, too... GW going with a "if it works here" mentality...
I dig the new chaos stuff, the 5 chaos warrior's in the set look amazing. I would love to see the current kit replaced with guys that look like that. The muradur guys also look amazing and put the current plastics to shame. Top shelf stuff.
But the more I look at the Sig-mariens all I see is space mariens with out their back packs glued on.
=/
I guess it will work out for me, since I can see alot of space marien players wanting to get their hands on these guys for conversions. Shouldn't be hard at all to make a flip on them.
I'm not going to touch the new fantesy with a 10 foot pole untill i can gage how well the local community adopts it.
The standard bearer seems to have a bared skull, so it might be "the honored dead" coming back for vengeance...
...and there weren't enough of them from the previous how many years of the Empire getting slaughtered wholesale by Skaven, Orcs and Chaos to make an appearance?
What I find most curious about the thread since those pics were posted, are the number of people already writing off the game based on two pics that contain images (and not super good ones) of portions of two factions.It's just like a few weeks ago, people writing off the game simply because GW decided to move on in the first place. I think that's a bit premature.
Two pics, showing pieces of two factions. That's all we have so far. I don't care for either myself, but even if they were AWESOME figs, I still wouldn't be buying them. I have never, and will probably never, play either humans or chaos. Does that mean I should just write off AoS before seeing the rest, too? Before seeing the rules? It just seems like some of the reactions are indeed nerdrage (indeed, one fella even immediately wanted to sell his entire collection for a 'great price'... because of two blurry pics).
The fluff does seem to be sparking some interest... at least for me, it is. So it's possible that these 'Sigmarites' battle the Chaos guys at this Gate... and if the Gate is opened, it unleashes the other races upon Regalia (or whatever the world is called). Doesn't that just make close to perfect sense for the starter set leading to the unveiling of the new setting? The first two 'factions' to exist in this new setting, and their 'war' is what allows/causes the other factions to spring into existence... and as such, they're the first two 'new' factions (at least minis wise) to come out in support of the new game and setting. I think that part is actually pretty cool, myself.
But really - if you don't like the minis, and you're a veteran... have you already sold off your current figs? Why can't you use those?
If you don't like the minis and you were thinking about picking up AoS but are now writing off the game already - do any of the other factions interest you? Why are these two factions 'make or break' for so many people? We don't even know if they are 'part' of a larger faction, or a faction all to themselves. Sure, it's likely the Khorne folks are part of 'Chaos' in some manner. But I could see the Sigmarites being to Space Marines, what Empire/Brets are to Imperial Guard. Who knows?
And we haven't even seen any facts about the actual -rules- yet. While I am not really expecting anything earth-shattering from GW on that front, I would not be surprised at all if the new rules are fun and interesting. I also keep getting this feeling that there -will- be some way to scale up games to a mass-battles level. We don't have long to wait now. But throwing in the proverbial towel over two blurry images is just silly to me.
As for the ongoing KOW stuff - I agree with Bottle. It's really unnecessary in this thread. I thought this was the AoS news/rumor thread. Not a KoW thread, not a comparison thread, not an IP discussion thread... and so on. Apparently the mods are cool with the frequent journeys that go way off -topic, but really - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that some folks claim to come here for AoS news and rumors, when they're really here just to bag on GW and try to recruit/leech folks off to other game systems. Personally I don't care if you do that (to each their own) - but then again, that's not what this thread was for, I think. But that's just one guy's opinion.
In the absence of real information from the company creating the product, people will just act on blind instinct and knee-jerk reactions.
Because, you know, not telling your customers what you're doing until a week before you start to sell it is such a cool idea!
By the time something is actually released, the majority of the people who have already written it off will have forgotten about it and the people who are excited will still be so.
It's GW's grand plot; they're no longer just hiring for attitude but selling for attitude as well. They don't want you as a customer unless you're blindly a fan of whatever tripe they deem to throw in your direction.
I think what I find most sad is this flood of 40k players salivating at the destruction of WHFB. And for what, so they can have more bitz for their 40k armies? Or they can play their exact army equivalent (i.e. demi-god humans) in another game? Why do they really need to play WHFB then, if they can't get into anything other than Space Marines (or again, their equivalent).
Are these Sigmarites the same as Space Marines? Eh, they have some similarities in appearance, but then Space Marines were supposed to be space knights so that would obviously come up. In concept, however, they're basically identical: greek, armored demi-gods, representing the holy power of the "good" god against the forces of Chaos, often probably doing "whatever is necessary" to fight for the good side. The rest of the Empire becomes the new Imperial Guard, secondary to this new faction, which I can only imagine will get the most attention in the future, through releases of factions like "monk knights", "vampire knights", and "viking knights". Should the WHFB factions remain as they are, the only two factions that won't have 40k equivalents will the Lizardmen and Skaven (and every 40k thread about ideas for new armies is just begging for their import into 40k).
So far, I think the models look good to very good. But that's never been GW's problem- in fact, it's really their best feature. I just worry that WHFB will toss out everything they feel is too generic and eventually create just a more medieval version of 40k. People keep saying "well WHFB was dying anyway," but was it dying because it didn't have fantasy marines? Or was it because the game had become massively bloated and unwieldily?
Holy wall of text bro.
personally I can't wait to add some of these figs to my growing kings of war army. After seeing those 2 pics I'm selling off almost all of my stuff because gw sucks.
judgedoug wrote: Man. It looks like they've chosen to completely abandon the 30-year old aesthetic that made Warhammer such a unique universe.
Warhammer is now Flash Gordon shoved through a He-Man filter.
Barf.
Warhammer battle was the epitome of generic and boring fantasy, there was nothing unique in it, as far as high fantasy goes, there is other games that does it, better and cheaper.
Commissar-Danno wrote: I'm surprise no one noticed the new terrain in the back ground of the chaos pic.
Is that new? I just assumed that it was one of the kits from Storm of Magic.
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usernamesareannoying wrote: Holy wall of text bro.
personally I can't wait to add some of these figs to my growing kings of war army. After seeing those 2 pics I'm selling off almost all of my stuff because gw sucks.
Well, these angels will certainly go together better than the crap that Mantic makes. I had one of the heroes with metal wings and that was a nightmare to put together. Mantic may have come up with the idea first but GW plastics will beat the living daylights out of their preferred medium (restic or metal). Give me plastic over crappy Mantic restic any day.
Commissar-Danno wrote: I'm surprise no one noticed the new terrain in the back ground of the chaos pic.
Is that new? I just assumed that it was one of the kits from Storm of Magic.
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usernamesareannoying wrote: Holy wall of text bro.
personally I can't wait to add some of these figs to my growing kings of war army. After seeing those 2 pics I'm selling off almost all of my stuff because gw sucks.
Well, these angels will certainly go together better than the crap that Mantic makes. I had one of the heroes with metal wings and that was a nightmare to put together. Mantic may have come up with the idea first but GW plastics will beat the living daylights out of their preferred medium (restic or metal). Give me plastic over crappy Mantic restic any day.
Its new and is interacting with the models so its not part of a matt painting
I don't know why so many people are up in arms saying they added space marines to fantasy.
Here is a secret, they already had space marines, they were called chaos warriors. All they did was add a sigma deity lead force to oppose the chaos warriors.
Warriors of Sigmar!
Does this mean are age old armies of the Empire are gone. No way, just means they now have bigger meaner older brother that can take the fight to chaos.
I doubt they are done with the empire. Maybe they rename them, but the look and feel will still exist.
I feel like Sigmar is Thor and his soldiers are the Warriors of Asgard.
Mort wrote: But throwing in the proverbial towel over two blurry images is just silly to me.
Eh, easy for you to say, with your Sebastian Crenshaw avatar. Our GW pampered brethren never lived through the clusterfeth that the old Warzone rise, collapse, resurrection and another collapse was. They haven't earned their scars
There are a couple things in that text I find interesting that nobody is really talking about.
1. It sounds like the world this takes place on is entirely ruled by chaos, and the forces of good are going to be the invaders trying to bring down the established civilization of chaos. This is a big thematic shift from the prior invasions of chaos trying to topple the civilized forces of good.
2. It sounds like they intend to have a developing continuing story. It talks about this being the initial invasion trying to open some gates, which will presumably allow other factions to get to this world. Maybe new factions will be added as part of an ongoing story, which advances with the release of each new army book or campaign supplement. Maybe not, but I got the impression that this could mean a continually advancing story instead of a more static setting for Warhammer.
Well I spent around $1200 in the last 3 months on my final 8th FB purchases, I do not regret any of it one bit. This was all based on rumors of course and some would claim that is risky, but due to GW's record I know 8th was ending and most likely an entirely new style of minis, while I was undecided at the time if I would give 9th a shot, I can firmly say now I will not be giving Ikea Age Of Modern Poo a shot at all.
If that is the logo itself my god is that ugly and sterile, typical of the modern boring ugly design aesthetic, which will never be my thing, what initially attracted me to GW and fb and even 40k was the design aesthetic that was poured into everything, and while over the years they have made blunders and are in no way the business they used to be, I personally felt they did 8th right in terms of style, art, hardcover books and retaining many things that kept FB...FB.
This looks like some ugly clone of a small indy skirmish game with over the top bland generic design, sure Chaos is still around and I have no doubts the new GD models will look amazing for my chaos 8th armies ( luckily these mostly remain in style ), but so far empire looks like nothing empire and I just aint feeling anything at all but not interested in the game or look or design style at all.
That ain't nerdrage it's just my honest opinion over what I see, FB as we know it is dead...long live 8th I know I will continue to paint and play in the whfb world as it was by bryan ansell and co, I might even switch to Foundry historicals now that my fb armies are finished for purchases.
Anyway I just started Dark Angels for 40k on the cheap with DV bits on the bay, and have half my deathskulls army bought so 8th fb, 7th 40k and historicals is my future it would seem.
If other people enjoy 9th or whatever this crap is hey all the power to you, ain't my thing though and I'm happy with my existing armies and original FB fluff and look.
Bottle wrote: The difference is I don't go into the KoW threads to say how shockingly [MOD EDIT - Don't try and circumvent the expletive filter - Alpharius] the minatures look. In fact I don't go into KoW threads at all. If only KoW players did the same for WHFB threads...
I'd rather we counted Warmahordes talk as spam, first. They're far more guilty than the KOW fans.
Albino Squirrel wrote: There are a couple things in that text I find interesting that nobody is really talking about.
1. It sounds like the world this takes place on is entirely ruled by chaos, and the forces of good are going to be the invaders trying to bring down the established civilization of chaos. This is a big thematic shift from the prior invasions of chaos trying to topple the civilized forces of good.
2. It sounds like they intend to have a developing continuing story. It talks about this being the initial invasion trying to open some gates, which will presumably allow other factions to get to this world. Maybe new factions will be added as part of an ongoing story, which advances with the release of each new army book or campaign supplement. Maybe not, but I got the impression that this could mean a continually advancing story instead of a more static setting for Warhammer.
yea, I was more interested in the fluff, even though the miniatures have impressed me. Another whole box of chaos guys, just like Dark Vengeance!! But back to the fluff, it really sounds like Bubble Hammer is happening, as this is just the first gate or many Realmgates.
The thing I wonder about is the fact that the Warhammer pictures on the GW website still feature ranked armies on square bases.
I thought the SOP was to remove everything in an army affected by a change before the revamp was out.
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Breotan wrote: I still say this is a one-off game that uses Hobbit rules.
Okay, they do not look like Space Marines. They do look similar to Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard Space Marines, who are themselves modelled on Modred's armor from Excalibur.
Mort wrote: But throwing in the proverbial towel over two blurry images is just silly to me.
Eh, easy for you to say, with your Sebastian Crenshaw avatar. Our GW pampered brethren never lived through the clusterfeth that the old Warzone rise, collapse, resurrection and another collapse was. They haven't earned their scars
HMV... how deep you cut me, sir! You re-open wounds still yet fully healed!
In all seriousness... I can see a sizable 'core' of fantasy players who will roll with whatever GW tosses them.
I can see a sizable chunk of vets (some already posting here that they were done) leaving the game behind.
And I can see a ? size of -newblood- giving the game a try. I've even seen comments from guys who quit playing in previous editions who plan to give this a shot. The 'skirmish' aspect definitely has some folks intrigued, and I am still feeling the vibe that there will be -some- sort of 'scale up' possibility to allow players to cover all bases.
Sure, this could be the REAL 'End Times' for WHFB. I just think it's too soon yet to tell.
Relapse wrote: The thing I wonder about is the fact that the Warhammer pictures on the GW website still feature ranked armies on square bases.
I thought the SOP was to remove everything in an army affected by a change before the revamp was out.
.
The revamp isn't out yet.
How soon before a rerelease they remove the old stuff often just depends on how much stock they have left. They don't want to pull stuff from the store that they're never going to be able to sell until they have to.
Mysterious Pants wrote: I like the angels the best I guess, but it doesn't look Warhammer. The whole thing looks videogamey and, well, meh.
What the heck are you talking about? These are clearly not akin to any armored angelic figures in video games. Quite frankly, I find the notion that GW could come up with anything partly or wholly unoriginal to be offensive, sir.
Spoiler:
Full disclosure: I've never been a WHFB follower and these models don't look to change that. But they would make for some nice SM kitbashing down the line.
adamsouza wrote: Okay, they do not look like Space Marines. They do look similar to Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard Space Marines, who are themselves modelled on Modred's armor from Excalibur.
Note that Morderd's armor in Excalibur and the BASG armor is *actually* modeled after Greco-Roman armor dating back roughly 2,500 years ago.
Not big on WFB *only becuase I dont have the budget for it AND 40k* But those sigmarites look like they will be prime pickings for my knightworld IG vets. I can only hope that hammer on the shield is a transfer and not sculpted.
Revenant78 wrote: Well I spent around $1200 in the last 3 months on my final 8th FB purchases, I do not regret any of it one bit. This was all based on rumors of course and some would claim that is risky, but due to GW's record I know 8th was ending and most likely an entirely new style of minis, while I was undecided at the time if I would give 9th a shot, I can firmly say now I will not be giving Ikea Age Of Modern Poo a shot at all.
If that is the logo itself my god is that ugly and sterile, typical of the modern boring ugly design aesthetic, which will never be my thing, what initially attracted me to GW and fb and even 40k was the design aesthetic that was poured into everything, and while over the years they have made blunders and are in no way the business they used to be, I personally felt they did 8th right in terms of style, art, hardcover books and retaining many things that kept FB...FB.
This looks like some ugly clone of a small indy skirmish game with over the top bland generic design, sure Chaos is still around and I have no doubts the new GD models will look amazing for my chaos 8th armies ( luckily these mostly remain in style ), but so far empire looks like nothing empire and I just aint feeling anything at all but not interested in the game or look or design style at all.
That ain't nerdrage it's just my honest opinion over what I see, FB as we know it is dead...long live 8th I know I will continue to paint and play in the whfb world as it was by bryan ansell and co, I might even switch to Foundry historicals now that my fb armies are finished for purchases.
Anyway I just started Dark Angels for 40k on the cheap with DV bits on the bay, and have half my deathskulls army bought so 8th fb, 7th 40k and historicals is my future it would seem.
If other people enjoy 9th or whatever this crap is hey all the power to you, ain't my thing though and I'm happy with my existing armies and original FB fluff and look.
Uhm, if anything that logo is a massive throwback to earlier editions, no?
I actually quite like the Darksiders aesthetic... if GW demons looked half as good as Darksider's demons I would have collected a demon army.
But at this point I'm not as concerned with the aesthetic as I am with the round bases and my lack of trust in GW's rules team to create a decent game.
I like the idea of a more skirmishy, warbandish game.
I like the idea of updating the clunky old Chaos miniatures.
But I can't get over the fact that it's not really Warhammer at all, now that the fluff has been gutted, and the fact that those awful Sigmarines are so utterly distant to the existing aesthetic just reinforces that sense of loss.
Pass. I'll wait for better pics of the Chaos models and maybe grab a few off eBay at some point, and I suppose if I develop a burning, irresistible desire to build an Adeptus Custodes army in the next 6-18 months before FW do them better I might look again at those atrocious Paladins of Derp, but obviously I'm not the kind of gamer GW are interested in any more.
Back to Mordheim for me then.
Well for starters, we don't know what the rules are going to be like yet. So, enough mithering about what we don't know yet. Let's wait for next Saturday shall we?
What relevance do the rules have to my view when A; I specifically mention I like the idea of a more skirmish-style system, which this evidently will be at least in terms of the boxed set, and B; the main things I mention as driving my disappointment are the fluff, which we know for a fact is buggered because that's already happened, and the aesthetic of the models, which we can see pretty clearly in the image?
adamsouza wrote: Okay, they do not look like Space Marines. They do look similar to Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard Space Marines, who are themselves modelled on Modred's armor from Excalibur.
Which was the directed by the same man who directed Zardoz and Deliverance! Now we have to figure out who is Sean Connery in a wedding dress and who is Ned Beatty!
I am so happy they are releasing Warhammer Fantasy Space Marines 3000!
Revenant78 wrote: Well I spent around $1200 in the last 3 months on my final 8th FB purchases, I do not regret any of it one bit. This was all based on rumors of course and some would claim that is risky, but due to GW's record I know 8th was ending and most likely an entirely new style of minis, while I was undecided at the time if I would give 9th a shot, I can firmly say now I will not be giving Ikea Age Of Modern Poo a shot at all.
If that is the logo itself my god is that ugly and sterile, typical of the modern boring ugly design aesthetic, which will never be my thing, what initially attracted me to GW and fb and even 40k was the design aesthetic that was poured into everything, and while over the years they have made blunders and are in no way the business they used to be, I personally felt they did 8th right in terms of style, art, hardcover books and retaining many things that kept FB...FB.
This looks like some ugly clone of a small indy skirmish game with over the top bland generic design, sure Chaos is still around and I have no doubts the new GD models will look amazing for my chaos 8th armies ( luckily these mostly remain in style ), but so far empire looks like nothing empire and I just aint feeling anything at all but not interested in the game or look or design style at all.
That ain't nerdrage it's just my honest opinion over what I see, FB as we know it is dead...long live 8th I know I will continue to paint and play in the whfb world as it was by bryan ansell and co, I might even switch to Foundry historicals now that my fb armies are finished for purchases.
Anyway I just started Dark Angels for 40k on the cheap with DV bits on the bay, and have half my deathskulls army bought so 8th fb, 7th 40k and historicals is my future it would seem.
If other people enjoy 9th or whatever this crap is hey all the power to you, ain't my thing though and I'm happy with my existing armies and original FB fluff and look.
Uhm, if anything that logo is a massive throwback to earlier editions, no?
Reminds me of this (2nd edition 40k):
2nd ed 40k is possibly the worst visual kiddie aesthetic GW has ever done, I'm pretty sure Bryan was gone by then too ( around 1992 ), It was bad...really bad, I got into GW in 87 so I knew of their visual designs from back then till now. Most of us back then loved the newer models coming out because prior to that we had mostly generic space marines and so on, but visually that was the start of GW's dive into what it is today.
Just compare that monstrosity crayola kiddie logo of 2nd ed to 1st ed 40k or 3rd ed logo which is still used, it's an eyesore and cheap looking. In the grim darkness of 2nd edition there is only goblin green bases and everyone sits on overwatch.
Take a look at virtually most GW logos and packaging pre 1992 and you will really understand what I mean here, they truly did some works of art and unique things with all the creative individuals they had back then. They still have John doing art for them and a few others like adrian smith ( some of his early gw pencil work is amazing like the slaanesh and nurgle stuff ), also 4th and 5th ed fantasy were almost as bad visually, it was what is known as the red period and even many of the sculpts outside of JG were blocky and mono boring looking, they also hired some comic style artist around 5th who really influenced the mini sculpts and I hated that look as all the skulls looked exactly like the artwork which was crap and not suited to that grim darkness.
Around 6th edition things slowly start going back towards the more darker and better quality design look, with 7th and 8th ( along with 3.5 and 6 40k ) rulebooks having a similar push towards late 80s style GW, I really enjoyed the fact they went back to hardcover as most books back in the late 80s were hardcover like ere we go and space hulk camps and the blood bowl books and all that. plus they hold up better with gaming use.
But seriously as soon as I saw the logo I just said wow it's like Ikea decided to muck around in photoshop for 5 mins yawnnnnnnnnnnnn. Almost reminds me of one of those BLIG novel type font covers, it would work for sci fi but it's really ugly and in no way a reflection of fantasy vibe or feel at all, and chances are it probably is the logo or part of the logo.
Loving the people who have decreed the games whole aesthetic equals the models of one faction ( since this is what some of you are basically saying ) and that the game is worthless because of one factions models or a different style. I'm sorry, but that logic is just unfathomable.
This is a new game, period.
WHFB was a creaking-at-it's-foundation ancient withering fossile, it's great that it is completely and utterly renewed asfar as I'm concerned. One just can't expect their 10 year old product to be supported forever, it's the same with all products. Admittedly, I can feel the sting of anyone who bought an army less than a year ago. Personally I don't mind similiarities with 40K but I ofcourse hope they haven't been lazy and basically copypasted everything.
Things in the world change and nothing stays the same. Get over it.
To each their own, I think things never got better than the old "red period"(around 2nd-ish for 40k and 4th/5th for fantasy). Both for 40k and fantasy. Especially for orcs/orks and goblins/gretchen. Sure some models were trash but I feel the same about some of the new stuff as well.
As for these sigmar knights; I like the lord on battlecat and I'm interested in seeing better pictures of the angels and chaos.
Runic wrote: Loving the people who have decreed the games whole aesthetic equals the models of one faction ( since this is what some of you are basically saying ) and that the game is worthless because of one factions models or a different style. I'm sorry, but that logic is just unfathomable.
This is a new game, period.
WHFB was a creaking-at-it's-foundation ancient withering fossile, it's great that it is completely and utterly renewed asfar as I'm concerned. One just can't expect their 10 year old product to be supported forever, it's the same with all products. Admittedly, I can feel the sting of anyone who bought an army less than a year ago. Personally I don't mind similiarities with 40K but I ofcourse hope they haven't been lazy and basically copypasted everything.
Things in the world change and nothing stays the same. Get over it.
I'm not actually going to say anything good or bad about the GAME itself, that I will find out and most of us will once people have played it.
Visually I think and so far from what I can tell storywise..its not wh fantasy as us vets know and loved it, and that makes us very angry and sad at the same time for legit and obvious reasons.
I can honestly say the chaos stuff looks amazing and will STILL fit and work well with 8th chaos, but I think the rest is going to be some war machine clone bs and I personally hate that style and nothing about it scream WH or gw to me at all.
I have to say I'm going to pick up some of the Chaos to make either a Tzeentch/Norse bloodbowl team, as they look a bit "sportsier."
I don't play WHFB but it does seem like they really dropped the ball with empire aesthetics here. They really look like Blood Angels. They aren't bad models just not quite the right type.
Also anyone point out that wonky scenery yet?
Looks like that "bubbles" thing might have come to pass
Talys wrote: @Revenant78 - Nice pics from a time long ago
I really, REALLY miss those paint pots. The ones that are identical to the current P3 pots
Me too that's why I order coat d'arms now and use them right along side the new citadel paints ( I like both but CDA is better for quality imo ), you get 18ml in the same pots that we all loved, some of the colors a little dif and not all are still around but most are, like I still have my hobgoblin orange and some others that are not around, I really miss swamp brown and have been trying to come up with a close match I think it was a similar color to dark flesh/doombull brown or whatever its called now just with a slightly pinkish brown tone to it vs that richer chocolate brown.
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Bronzefists42 wrote: I have to say I'm going to pick up some of the Chaos to make either a Tzeentch/Norse bloodbowl team, as they look a bit "sportsier."
I don't play WHFB but it does seem like they really dropped the ball with empire aesthetics here. They really look like Blood Angels. They aren't bad models just not quite the right type.
Also anyone point out that wonky scenery yet?
Looks like that "bubbles" thing might have come to pass
I'm actually considering picking up the scenery itself for doing a realm of chaos themed table for battles there, that is the one thing that they may pull off well sadly all or well the good scenery is mainly gone now so hopefully some of the new scenery can be still used for 8th with some cutting if its a bit over the top.
Far too much judging of the book by it's cover here! (Although, I realise that is all we have to go at this point)
The really important thing here is going to be the rules. As much as the game had diverted course over the past few editions, WHFB was a fundamentally well designed game in terms of its core mechanics. This game obviously looks to represent a different scale of miniature wargaming, with wheel and manoeuvre of blocks of infantry and cavalry charge looking like it's going to be relegated to a thing of the past for GW.
I've just started playing the Terminator miniature game (funnily enough designed by Alessio Cavatore, who wrote rules from previous editions of WHFB, LoTR amongst other games) and it is an absolutely, exceptionally designed game. The whole game just fits together so well; extremely easy to pick up but I can already see there is depth there. The miniatures if I'm honest look pretty basic compared to what we have on show here (although are carried somewhat by the strength of the license). But, this is what it comes down to; not just style, but substance. There has to be a game there, and solid mechanics that allow a fun game to be had while involving tactical input from the player.
Does GW still have the ability to do this, after a couple of recent misfires? It's going to be interesting to find out, and I think certainly of more importance for the success (or not) of this game.
Pacific wrote: Far too much judging of the book by it's cover here! (Although, I realise that is all we have to go at this point)
The really important thing here is going to be the rules. As much as the game had diverted course over the past few editions, WHFB was a fundamentally well designed game in terms of its core mechanics. This game obviously looks to represent a different scale of miniature wargaming, with wheel and manoeuvre of blocks of infantry and cavalry charge looking like it's going to be relegated to a thing of the past for GW.
I agree with this now... At first I was taken aback by the new models, but you know what, if the rules are well written and the game is fun to play and there are people in the local area willing to play then I'm in. I'll grab the started boxes, I might even paint the sigmar and chaos factions up - though in truth I'm holding out for the elves to see what becomes of them... I'm intrigued - this could be something awesome. Only time will tell......
I can understand if people don't like the Sigmarines, but the Chaos too? They retain the current aesthetic but with much more modern designs and very dynamic sculpts. What's not to like? :-)
Now I've slept on it, I can see actually see why some folks are a bit miffed. I was looking at AoS as a brand new game where as others were hoping it would be a rewrite and a new edition.
I was being facetious at points yesterday, and I didn't keep in mind just how passionate people can be about the setting etc.
I still like the new sculpts, though, and have moderate high hopes for a fun, engaging system. Fingers crossed, right?!
Pacific wrote: Far too much judging of the book by it's cover here! (Although, I realise that is all we have to go at this point)
The really important thing here is going to be the rules. As much as the game had diverted course over the past few editions, WHFB was a fundamentally well designed game in terms of its core mechanics. This game obviously looks to represent a different scale of miniature wargaming, with wheel and manoeuvre of blocks of infantry and cavalry charge looking like it's going to be relegated to a thing of the past for GW.
I've just started playing the Terminator miniature game (funnily enough designed by Alessio Cavatore, who wrote rules from previous editions of WHFB, LoTR amongst other games) and it is an absolutely, exceptionally designed game. The whole game just fits together so well; extremely easy to pick up but I can already see there is depth there. The miniatures if I'm honest look pretty basic compared to what we have on show here (although are carried somewhat by the strength of the license). But, this is what it comes down to; not just style, but substance. There has to be a game there, and solid mechanics that allow a fun game to be had while involving tactical input from the player.
Does GW still have the ability to do this, after a couple of recent misfires? It's going to be interesting to find out, and I think certainly of more importance for the success (or not) of this game.
I disagree, if all that was important were rules wed all be playing with cheap cardboard counters. In a minatures wargame the model asthetics are every bit as important.
monders wrote: Now I've slept on it, I can see actually see why some folks are a bit miffed. I was looking at AoS as a brand new game where as others were hoping it would be a rewrite and a new edition.
I was being facetious at points yesterday, and I didn't keep in mind just how passionate people can be about the setting etc.
I still like the new sculpts, though, and have moderate high hopes for a fun, engaging system. Fingers crossed, right?!
Again, these are but 2 of the factions. I'm sure the rest will trickle through later.
Someone photoshopped the Sigmarite things to change the colour scheme; I think it makes them look better (and I liked them anyway):
I do think people are overreacting about the 'loss of the old aesthetic'; were only seeing 2 factions here, and Chaos looks pretty much how it looked anyway; it's only the Sigmarites that are a big departure and they're a new faction. I mean yeah everything might've changed but we don't know yet. It is very annoying that we don't know yet, I hate GWs secrecy policy as much as the next guy.
monders wrote: Now I've slept on it, I can see actually see why some folks are a bit miffed. I was looking at AoS as a brand new game where as others were hoping it would be a rewrite and a new edition.
I was being facetious at points yesterday, and I didn't keep in mind just how passionate people can be about the setting etc.
I still like the new sculpts, though, and have moderate high hopes for a fun, engaging system. Fingers crossed, right?!
Again, these are but 2 of the factions. I'm sure the rest will trickle through later.
Oh yeah I know, I can't wait to see what's to come
Revenant78 wrote: Well I spent around $1200 in the last 3 months on my final 8th FB purchases, I do not regret any of it one bit. This was all based on rumors of course and some would claim that is risky, but due to GW's record I know 8th was ending and most likely an entirely new style of minis, while I was undecided at the time if I would give 9th a shot, I can firmly say now I will not be giving Ikea Age Of Modern Poo a shot at all.
If that is the logo itself my god is that ugly and sterile, typical of the modern boring ugly design aesthetic, which will never be my thing, what initially attracted me to GW and fb and even 40k was the design aesthetic that was poured into everything, and while over the years they have made blunders and are in no way the business they used to be, I personally felt they did 8th right in terms of style, art, hardcover books and retaining many things that kept FB...FB.
This looks like some ugly clone of a small indy skirmish game with over the top bland generic design, sure Chaos is still around and I have no doubts the new GD models will look amazing for my chaos 8th armies ( luckily these mostly remain in style ), but so far empire looks like nothing empire and I just aint feeling anything at all but not interested in the game or look or design style at all.
That ain't nerdrage it's just my honest opinion over what I see, FB as we know it is dead...long live 8th I know I will continue to paint and play in the whfb world as it was by bryan ansell and co, I might even switch to Foundry historicals now that my fb armies are finished for purchases.
Anyway I just started Dark Angels for 40k on the cheap with DV bits on the bay, and have half my deathskulls army bought so 8th fb, 7th 40k and historicals is my future it would seem.
If other people enjoy 9th or whatever this crap is hey all the power to you, ain't my thing though and I'm happy with my existing armies and original FB fluff and look.
Uhm, if anything that logo is a massive throwback to earlier editions, no?
Reminds me of this (2nd edition 40k):
2nd ed 40k is possibly the worst visual kiddie aesthetic GW has ever done, I'm pretty sure Bryan was gone by then too ( around 1992 ), It was bad...really bad, I got into GW in 87 so I knew of their visual designs from back then till now. Most of us back then loved the newer models coming out because prior to that we had mostly generic space marines and so on, but visually that was the start of GW's dive into what it is today.
Just compare that monstrosity crayola kiddie logo of 2nd ed to 1st ed 40k or 3rd ed logo which is still used, it's an eyesore and cheap looking. In the grim darkness of 2nd edition there is only goblin green bases and everyone sits on overwatch.
Take a look at virtually most GW logos and packaging pre 1992 and you will really understand what I mean here, they truly did some works of art and unique things with all the creative individuals they had back then. They still have John doing art for them and a few others like adrian smith ( some of his early gw pencil work is amazing like the slaanesh and nurgle stuff ), also 4th and 5th ed fantasy were almost as bad visually, it was what is known as the red period and even many of the sculpts outside of JG were blocky and mono boring looking, they also hired some comic style artist around 5th who really influenced the mini sculpts and I hated that look as all the skulls looked exactly like the artwork which was crap and not suited to that grim darkness.
Around 6th edition things slowly start going back towards the more darker and better quality design look, with 7th and 8th ( along with 3.5 and 6 40k ) rulebooks having a similar push towards late 80s style GW, I really enjoyed the fact they went back to hardcover as most books back in the late 80s were hardcover like ere we go and space hulk camps and the blood bowl books and all that. plus they hold up better with gaming use.
But seriously as soon as I saw the logo I just said wow it's like Ikea decided to muck around in photoshop for 5 mins yawnnnnnnnnnnnn. Almost reminds me of one of those BLIG novel type font covers, it would work for sci fi but it's really ugly and in no way a reflection of fantasy vibe or feel at all, and chances are it probably is the logo or part of the logo.
This is GW as I knew it and loved it and many others, not the plastic ugly modern mcdonalds crap we have today.
Good post, I didnt actually know there was a big aesthetic shift from 1st to 2nd as 2nd is the earliest exposure I had.
That being said I still dont think the logo is modern looking, you said it yourself that their recent editions have had the more subdued dark look. It's a throwback just perhaps not all the way back.
I dont mind it, tho probably in part because it feels sort of nostalgic. Would still not choose this logo even so, as you said its a little cartoony feeling.
Pacific wrote: Far too much judging of the book by it's cover here! (Although, I realise that is all we have to go at this point)
The really important thing here is going to be the rules. As much as the game had diverted course over the past few editions, WHFB was a fundamentally well designed game in terms of its core mechanics. This game obviously looks to represent a different scale of miniature wargaming, with wheel and manoeuvre of blocks of infantry and cavalry charge looking like it's going to be relegated to a thing of the past for GW.
That's sort of the problem I have here though, the rules matter, they are the important bit. I'm not interested in yet more fantasy marines or chaos. I simply have lost all faith whatsoever that GW is capable of releasing even halfway decent rules anymore.
I was hoping for a revamped version of Fantasy, maybe indeed even a skirmish variant between mordheim and 8th. I play fantasy because I want to do just that, I like the background and the models. I have no interest at all in playing 40k without Space. I most definately have no interest in space marines revamped. This whole thing just saddens me greatly (and no, I can't play older editions with my friend, they play only 40k, malifaux and 30k so I'm stuck with pick up games for fantasy and we all know that won't work very well with older editions).
Ah well, it was a good run while it lasted for fantasy, to bad, so sad, byebye
The only thing I am miffed about is that I have around 100 goblins lol......on the plus side only 40 or so are painted so thats the good thing.
My wife just started a new wood elf army (she also has high elves) so the upside for her is she only has 2 boxes of glade guard, 1 box of the ranger chaps (with the double handed axe/swords), some deer rider chaps and a lord.
So what would have been a very small 8th edition force becomes a full army for AoS. Down side is we just based them all the other day lol
@Gertjan - wow, how can you dislike a new game so much before there's anything other than a cell phone snapshot
As I understand it, the GW rep has told one of my stores that this is a new game set in Fantasy, but not a replacement for 8e; also that 9e will still be coming.
Since all the rules apparently fit on 4 pages, I can only assume that it's not a game comparable to Fantasy...
I repeat: these new models are NOT replacing the old ones. If you want to play Empire, or Orcs, or Skaven, or Lizards or Ogres or whatever you still can. No one is forcing you to buy or play these new fellows. Yes, their aesthetic is different, but the same can be said for the many different current factions of Fantasy; Empire look nothing like Chaos who look nothing like Dwarves who look nothing like Skaven etc. etc. etc... This whole 'sky is falling' attitude is confusing to me when, unless your are playing the new fellows, nothing has changed to your models.
nudibranch wrote: I repeat: these new models are NOT replacing the old ones. If you want to play Empire, or Orcs, or Skaven, or Lizards or Ogres or whatever you still can. No one is forcing you to buy or play these new fellows. Yes, their aesthetic is different, but the same can be said for the many different current factions of Fantasy; Empire look nothing like Chaos who look nothing like Dwarves who look nothing like Skaven etc. etc. etc... This whole 'sky is falling' attitude is confusing to me when, unless your are playing the new fellows, nothing has changed to your models.
At least, nobody is saying, "This is a rip-off of Dune!"
A horde of rumors also say that 9e is coming shortly after. The WHFB is over sentiment doesn't make sense to me, either. If they released 9e before Sigmar, these comments would just say that GW has no originality, can't produce anything different, and it's just all a cash grab for a new book.
Short rules sets can be very well done - I always thought Heroscape was an excellently crafted system with a refreshing simplicity that provoked gameplay over RAW lawyering.
I don't blame people for making wild speculations on what little info there is - I blame GW for their idiotic security blanket.
Compare and contrast with Battlefront. Berlin isn't out for a while, but already, battlefront have released info on the book cover, what new units will be in it, and a discussion of both Soviet Forces and the German defenders.
nudibranch wrote: I repeat: these new models are NOT replacing the old ones. If you want to play Empire, or Orcs, or Skaven, or Lizards or Ogres or whatever you still can. No one is forcing you to buy or play these new fellows. Yes, their aesthetic is different, but the same can be said for the many different current factions of Fantasy; Empire look nothing like Chaos who look nothing like Dwarves who look nothing like Skaven etc. etc. etc... This whole 'sky is falling' attitude is confusing to me when, unless your are playing the new fellows, nothing has changed to your models.
At least, nobody is saying, "This is a rip-off of Dune!"
A horde of rumors also say that 9e is coming shortly after. The WHFB is over sentiment doesn't make sense to me, either. If they released 9e before Sigmar, these comments would just say that GW has no originality, can't produce anything different, and it's just all a cash grab for a new book.
This is why GW need to talk about what's happening, I honestly can't beleave they would leave all this to rumers unless they want to manufacture there own marketing disasters.
Honestly the sigmar models are kinda lame, for me the worst and most missmatched minis GW have ever released.
seems they truly have killed the warhammer world for me, unless the rules are really good I am going to pass.
The chaos look mostly avg chaos, little charm to them other than KHORNE, since I needed more of that....
In the end Meh.
Pacific wrote: Far too much judging of the book by it's cover here! (Although, I realise that is all we have to go at this point)
The really important thing here is going to be the rules. As much as the game had diverted course over the past few editions, WHFB was a fundamentally well designed game in terms of its core mechanics. This game obviously looks to represent a different scale of miniature wargaming, with wheel and manoeuvre of blocks of infantry and cavalry charge looking like it's going to be relegated to a thing of the past for GW.
I've just started playing the Terminator miniature game (funnily enough designed by Alessio Cavatore, who wrote rules from previous editions of WHFB, LoTR amongst other games) and it is an absolutely, exceptionally designed game. The whole game just fits together so well; extremely easy to pick up but I can already see there is depth there. The miniatures if I'm honest look pretty basic compared to what we have on show here (although are carried somewhat by the strength of the license). But, this is what it comes down to; not just style, but substance. There has to be a game there, and solid mechanics that allow a fun game to be had while involving tactical input from the player.
Does GW still have the ability to do this, after a couple of recent misfires? It's going to be interesting to find out, and I think certainly of more importance for the success (or not) of this game.
I disagree, if all that was important were rules wed all be playing with cheap cardboard counters. In a minatures wargame the model asthetics are every bit as important.
I didn't state that the rules were the only thing that was important! I agree the look of the miniatures, terrain etc. are a fundamental component of the experience.
But, without a fun game to play that's well designed you'll soon start looking beyond the pretty miniatures and just get annoyed with the function of the game.
Runic wrote: Loving the people who have decreed the games whole aesthetic equals the models of one faction ( since this is what some of you are basically saying ) and that the game is worthless because of one factions models or a different style. I'm sorry, but that logic is just unfathomable.
This is a new game, period.
WHFB was a creaking-at-it's-foundation ancient withering fossile, it's great that it is completely and utterly renewed asfar as I'm concerned. One just can't expect their 10 year old product to be supported forever, it's the same with all products. Admittedly, I can feel the sting of anyone who bought an army less than a year ago. Personally I don't mind similiarities with 40K but I ofcourse hope they haven't been lazy and basically copypasted everything.
Things in the world change and nothing stays the same. Get over it.
That is a really hard view to take. So your basically saying suck it up?
Yes things change but it's not always a good thing. Sometimes it is people evolve and opinions change but honestly WHF is not the powerhouse it once was. GW need to realize it. 're release Morhiem and Necromunda. Maybe with less clunky rules but still. Not invent fantasy marines, and I'm going to run some people the wrong way but I'm going to guess this thing will have less female figures than now which is a shame.
This box, this game is like if kit kat removed the original version but released a new Kit Kat that was basically a cake bar while discontinuing the original. Saying you can still enjoy the originals while stocks last.
Yes nobody is saying sell your armies, and I'm not going to sell my Skaven, And I'm certainly going to try to pick up some Bretonians and witch elves before they destroy those.
Warmachine and Hordes are not as old but they certainly haven't destroyed everything yet and its only on v2. Which they openly tested. They listened, GW do not care about anybody but Kirby and other shareholders remember this.
Yes new figures are nice and I always like to see new stuff. But I'm not going to buy anything before the 4 main books are out rules wise. I'd like to read how much has been butchered beforehand.
I actually kinda like the models, but in doing so, I feel like I'm falling for some strange Scientology/Mormon/Waco-Doomsday-church ploy to play with an army of Nut-Job-Visions-of-Avenging-Jesuses.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that almost every person with a smug post about how they're happy with the look and that the complainers are 'wrong' has a space marine avatar and/or user title.
nudibranch wrote: I repeat: these new models are NOT replacing the old ones. If you want to play Empire, or Orcs, or Skaven, or Lizards or Ogres or whatever you still can. No one is forcing you to buy or play these new fellows. Yes, their aesthetic is different, but the same can be said for the many different current factions of Fantasy; Empire look nothing like Chaos who look nothing like Dwarves who look nothing like Skaven etc. etc. etc... This whole 'sky is falling' attitude is confusing to me when, unless your are playing the new fellows, nothing has changed to your models.
I'm not part of the sky-is-falling-brigade but if they take boxsets off the shelves, discontinue them, and put new sigmarines on the shelf instead they are most definitely replacing them lol.
Not saying that is going to happen. And I hope not as I play Empire.
If worse comes to worse I could continue to use my old empire models as proxies for something but that only gets you so far. Try saying everything you said above to Squat players or Dogs of War players lol
Anyway I am hoping the Empire will stay largely intact and move into the Imperial Guard role of the new setting. They'll probably get new models that deviate more from historicals than they already do, and I'm all for that. I have enough spare bits to make a smooth transition :-)
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