I can't say I trust the stats for the WK's Wraithcannons that we've seen. That same batch of rumors listed a couple other options for the main arm, and those options don't agree with what we know. We know the Suncannon has 3 AP2 blasts. It was said in the WD when talking about how scary it can be. It can only take one arm like this so thats a major doubt raised.
Thats still ridiculous. I can see that on storm guardians, but not for regular troops. As was said before, now they're just wounds formthe gun platform.
Uriels_Flame wrote: Thats still ridiculous. I can see that on storm guardians, but not for regular troops. As was said before, now they're just wounds formthe gun platform.
They've been additional wounds for weapon platforms for a few editions now. Nothing new there. Of course, people might think twice about charging them now, especially if they can still have a warlock in the unit.
KaiyaA wrote: Is it better to pre-order stuff or buy the codex first in you guys' opinion?
Never pre-order anything. EVER.
Pre-ordering is the fanboy's ultimate demonstration of having more money than sense. When you pre-order a product, what you say to the company that makes it is, "I am so impulsive/uncritical/unwilling to control my spending that I will give you my money even before you show me a product... I just want the promise of being the first to have the product. Whatever it is. Pre-ordering is nothing more than giving a company your permission to cheat you with a disappointing upcoming product.
You are a consumer. You have the money. Therefore you have the power. Make the producer prove to you that they deserve your money by putting the physical product in your hands. When you pre-order, you disempower yourself in order to have the sliver of nerd-cred at having the latest new shiney a day or so before other people do... ignoring that the moment another new shiney comes out, your nerd cred will completely evaporate.
KaiyaA wrote: Is it better to pre-order stuff or buy the codex first in you guys' opinion?
Never pre-order anything. EVER.
Pre-ordering is the fanboy's ultimate demonstration of having more money than sense. When you pre-order a product, what you say to the company that makes it is, "I am so impulsive/uncritical/unwilling to control my spending that I will give you my money even before you show me a product... I just want the promise of being the first to have the product. Whatever it is. Pre-ordering is nothing more than giving a company your permission to cheat you with a disappointing upcoming product.
You are a consumer. You have the money. Therefore you have the power. Make the producer prove to you that they deserve your money by putting the physical product in your hands. When you pre-order, you disempower yourself in order to have the sliver of nerd-cred at having the latest new shiney a day or so before other people do... ignoring that the moment another new shiney comes out, your nerd cred will completely evaporate.
Unless, like myself, you're now just collecting the miniatures... rarely playing the game itself.
JOHIRA wrote: Pre-ordering is nothing more than giving a company your permission to cheat you with a disappointing upcoming product.
This isn't ALIENS: Colonial Marines we're talking about here JOHIRA. It's some miniatures that we're already seen.
JOHIRA wrote: When you pre-order, you disempower yourself in order to have the sliver of nerd-cred at having the latest new shiney a day or so before other people do... ignoring that the moment another new shiney comes out, your nerd cred will completely evaporate.
That has got to be one of the silliest things I have ever read at Dakka. Of all time. Ever.
JOHIRA wrote: Pre-ordering is nothing more than giving a company your permission to cheat you with a disappointing upcoming product.
This isn't ALIENS: Colonial Marines we're talking about here JOHIRA. It's some miniatures that we're already seen.
JOHIRA wrote: When you pre-order, you disempower yourself in order to have the sliver of nerd-cred at having the latest new shiney a day or so before other people do... ignoring that the moment another new shiney comes out, your nerd cred will completely evaporate.
That has got to be one of the silliest things I have ever read at Dakka. Of all time. Ever.
Phoenix-Nyx wrote: Hi I saw in the promo video two more of the psychic powers Embolden/Horrify and Enhance/Drain.
Nice!
Guessing Embolden is re-rolling leadership and Horrify forces a Morale Check. Enhance (if it stays the same) will be +1 WS and I and the Drain will be -1WS and I. Not bad. Liking that they have mirror abilities within the same spell. Since most Warlocks are going to be ML lvl1 anything helps.
Seer Councils with 2 wounds a pop means they probably dropped the Bike option. Otherwise they could be feasibly tougher than Wraithguard.
Pre-ordering is pretty stupid, especially with GW stuff. Is the extra day or two early going to even make a difference in your painting schedule? (Assuming you actually get your stuff before anyone else...) it's hardly a crime though either like that other poster was making it out to be.
orkybenji wrote: Pre-ordering is pretty stupid, especially with GW stuff. Is the extra day or two early going to even make a difference in your painting schedule? (Assuming you actually get your stuff before anyone else...) it's hardly a crime though either like that other poster was making it out to be.
Actually pre-ordering with GW is stupid because you don't get it early. They send it to you on the day before release, and as they always release things on Saturdays you don't actually get what you ordered until the following Monday or Tuesday. So in a lot of ways pre-ordering from GW just means you get it after general release. Now that's fine if you have no local game stores (like me), but for anyone that does it's a bit foolish.
Phoenix-Nyx wrote: Hi I saw in the promo video two more of the psychic powers Embolden/Horrify and Enhance/Drain.
Nice!
Guessing Embolden is re-rolling leadership and Horrify forces a Morale Check. Enhance (if it stays the same) will be +1 WS and I and the Drain will be -1WS and I. Not bad. Liking that they have mirror abilities within the same spell. Since most Warlocks are going to be ML lvl1 anything helps.
Seer Councils with 2 wounds a pop means they probably dropped the Bike option. Otherwise they could be feasibly tougher than Wraithguard.
If this is true and Jetseer Councils no longer exist... I will be a very sad panda. More so for the addition of said Jetseers/Jetlocks to Jetbike units etc.
Actually pre-ordering with GW is stupid because you don't get it early. They send it to you on the day before release, and as they always release things on Saturdays you don't actually get what you ordered until the following Monday or Tuesday. So in a lot of ways pre-ordering from GW just means you get it after general release. Now that's fine if you have no local game stores (like me), but for anyone that does it's a bit foolish.
In my case, the preorder was placed via a stockist in the USA, so i'd rather get in early and at least reduce wait time to have the gear sent over prior to the new GW retailer policy coming into effect. Even with the price disparity gap closing (the pricing in the USA going up, rather than Australian pricing going down), there are still substantial discounts that better anything we can get here locally - even with shipping and the USPS increase.
GTKA666 wrote: If jet seer's don't exist I will laugh...so hard. Me finally not playing the meta has finally worked out!
By the looks of it, you've only played 3 games anyway.
Those are tournament games and not the non competitive ones
Ah, interesting, most (if not, all) of the tournaments down here run 5 games rather than 3. Didn't even enter my mind that it would have been win/loss stats of a tournament. Figured you may have just started out with Eldar.
Well your not far from the truth actually. It was a tourny at my LGS and we have a small collection there, but enough for a day of 3 rounds. I started 40k and Eldar around 2 months ago . Before the Tau release and after What was ever before it.
GTKA666 wrote: Well your not far from the truth actually. It was a tourny at my LGS and we have a small collection there, but enough for a day of 3 rounds. I started 40k and Eldar around 2 months ago . Before the Tau release and after What was ever before it.
Welcome to the 40k snobs club, us Eldar folk are about as arrogant in our generalship superiority as the fluff describes jks.
Nah, we aren't that bad, just enjoy pulling off surprising wins haha.
JOHIRA wrote: Pre-ordering is nothing more than giving a company your permission to cheat you with a disappointing upcoming product.
This isn't ALIENS: Colonial Marines we're talking about here JOHIRA. It's some miniatures that we're already seen.
JOHIRA wrote: When you pre-order, you disempower yourself in order to have the sliver of nerd-cred at having the latest new shiney a day or so before other people do... ignoring that the moment another new shiney comes out, your nerd cred will completely evaporate.
That has got to be one of the silliest things I have ever read at Dakka. Of all time. Ever.
As long as my nerd cred-it card doesn't get declined I will be fine! I don't see a problem with pre-ordering...If you have the money and want to spend it then go for it, free country? Personally, I try as much as possible to never pay retail for any GW product and have built up my armies all from tournament winnings so I hardly paid anything for my rather large pre-order =).
I hope my nerd cred-it rating doesn't drop in a few months though...Where does anyone get their nerd cred checked? Experian simply doesn't cut it for me!
pizzaguardian wrote: They definitely dont know what i think. Not with 22 points per model on fire dragons.
Well they always did have a habit of taking what they got right in a codex and changing it in future revisions. But that is how they cycle demand for other models. Still not surprised they took the War Walkers out and wacked Vypers in to the Battleforce as to clear the warehouses of them.
Lets see how long it takes to meet demand on the Eldar models this time around.
Right, because 16 points for a model with a 3+ save, equipped with a meltagun and with a potential threat range of 24 inches, wouldn't be broken at all....
They're faster and tougher now. Pretty much everyone agreed they were undercosted before.
Wait , so fire dragons were wrecking every ground vehicle for a whole year now in 6th and i didn't know?
They were not wroking for a reason, that reason doesn't seem to change.
( That being paying 200+ points for destroying a tank ,
" Oh wait so you tell me that the specialist anti tank infantry in the codex can get only a 1:1 points ratio before getting gunned down ?
Yes, sir. And now you can get gunned doıwn with a unit that is even higher costed!
KaiyaA wrote: Is it better to pre-order stuff or buy the codex first in you guys' opinion?
Never pre-order anything. EVER.
Pre-ordering is the fanboy's ultimate demonstration of having more money than sense. When you pre-order a product, what you say to the company that makes it is, "I am so impulsive/uncritical/unwilling to control my spending that I will give you my money even before you show me a product... I just want the promise of being the first to have the product. Whatever it is. Pre-ordering is nothing more than giving a company your permission to cheat you with a disappointing upcoming product.
You are a consumer. You have the money. Therefore you have the power. Make the producer prove to you that they deserve your money by putting the physical product in your hands. When you pre-order, you disempower yourself in order to have the sliver of nerd-cred at having the latest new shiney a day or so before other people do... ignoring that the moment another new shiney comes out, your nerd cred will completely evaporate.
Unless, like myself, you're now just collecting the miniatures... rarely playing the game itself.
Pre-ordering a codex or other kind of books makes sense. You are right about everything else.
pizzaguardian wrote: They definitely dont know what i think. Not with 22 points per model on fire dragons.
Well they always did have a habit of taking what they got right in a codex and changing it in future revisions. But that is how they cycle demand for other models. Still not surprised they took the War Walkers out and wacked Vypers in to the Battleforce as to clear the warehouses of them.
Lets see how long it takes to meet demand on the Eldar models this time around.
Right, because 16 points for a model with a 3+ save, equipped with a meltagun and with a potential threat range of 24 inches, wouldn't be broken at all....
They're faster and tougher now. Pretty much everyone agreed they were undercosted before.
Wait , so fire dragons were wrecking every ground vehicle for a whole year now in 6th and i didn't know?
They were not wroking for a reason, that reason doesn't seem to change.
( That being paying 200+ points for destroying a tank ,
" Oh wait so you tell me that the specialist anti tank infantry in the codex can get only a 1:1 points ratio before getting gunned down ?
Yes, sir. And now you can get gunned doıwn with a units that is even higher costed!
That's excellent news!" )
The thing most people overlook is the fact they needed a dedicated transport to even get CLOSE to the unit they wanted to tear apart. That took a 110+ point transport, just to get them close enough to be used. So wacking in that cost, the original 16 point model became anywhere between 38 points per model for a 5 man unit or 27 points per model for a full squad of 10. Hence that seemingly cheap 16 point cost comes with hidden taxes.
Now you're looking at 44 and 33 points respectively to get them close enough for use, presuming no great drop in the cost of a Wave Serpent. Even with their 3+ save, you're going to have to put them in Wave Serpents still, or take them in full squads to get them across the field - such is the way when you're touting a 12" weapons range.
It is also for this reason I always preferred Jetbikes over Dire Avengers and Jetbike mounted Seers/Locks over their foot slogging counterparts. Simply couldn't see the value in having units that only got to fire half the time or wasted entire turns sitting in transports unable to engage anything. Plus denying the enemy targets by using the Assault phase move was always very "fluffy" in the "catch me if you can" sense of Eldar's play style.
Haven't seen this posted in the thread. In the WD battle report a Wave Serpent "fires its serpent shield". It doesn't sound mega powerful - it kills 2 Necron Warriors - but it maybe another nice little capability for the Serpents to have.
Pershore wrote: Haven't seen this posted in the thread. In the WD battle report a Wave Serpent "fires its serpent shield". It doesn't sound mega powerful - it kills 2 Necron Warriors - but it maybe another nice little capability for the Serpents to have.
Another blast from the past, although I think the Apocalypse Wave Serpent formation can do it too.
pizzaguardian wrote: They definitely dont know what i think. Not with 22 points per model on fire dragons.
Well they always did have a habit of taking what they got right in a codex and changing it in future revisions. But that is how they cycle demand for other models. Still not surprised they took the War Walkers out and wacked Vypers in to the Battleforce as to clear the warehouses of them.
Lets see how long it takes to meet demand on the Eldar models this time around.
Right, because 16 points for a model with a 3+ save, equipped with a meltagun and with a potential threat range of 24 inches, wouldn't be broken at all....
They're faster and tougher now. Pretty much everyone agreed they were undercosted before.
Wait , so fire dragons were wrecking every ground vehicle for a whole year now in 6th and i didn't know?
They were not wroking for a reason, that reason doesn't seem to change.
( That being paying 200+ points for destroying a tank ,
" Oh wait so you tell me that the specialist anti tank infantry in the codex can get only a 1:1 points ratio before getting gunned down ?
Yes, sir. And now you can get gunned doıwn with a unit that is even higher costed!
That's excellent news!" )
sigh you dont even know what they do yet...or the rest of the army....
they got battle focus (run/shoot) and a 3+ save for one...
pizzaguardian wrote: They definitely dont know what i think. Not with 22 points per model on fire dragons.
Well they always did have a habit of taking what they got right in a codex and changing it in future revisions. But that is how they cycle demand for other models. Still not surprised they took the War Walkers out and wacked Vypers in to the Battleforce as to clear the warehouses of them.
Lets see how long it takes to meet demand on the Eldar models this time around.
Right, because 16 points for a model with a 3+ save, equipped with a meltagun and with a potential threat range of 24 inches, wouldn't be broken at all....
They're faster and tougher now. Pretty much everyone agreed they were undercosted before.
Wait , so fire dragons were wrecking every ground vehicle for a whole year now in 6th and i didn't know?
They were not wroking for a reason, that reason doesn't seem to change.
( That being paying 200+ points for destroying a tank ,
" Oh wait so you tell me that the specialist anti tank infantry in the codex can get only a 1:1 points ratio before getting gunned down ?
Yes, sir. And now you can get gunned doıwn with a units that is even higher costed!
That's excellent news!" )
The thing most people overlook is the fact they needed a dedicated transport to even get CLOSE to the unit they wanted to tear apart. That took a 110+ point transport, just to get them close enough to be used. So wacking in that cost, the original 16 point model became anywhere between 38 points per model for a 5 man unit or 27 points per model for a full squad of 10. Hence that seemingly cheap 16 point cost comes with hidden taxes.
Now you're looking at 44 and 33 points respectively to get them close enough for use, presuming no great drop in the cost of a Wave Serpent. Even with their 3+ save, you're going to have to put them in Wave Serpents still, or take them in full squads to get them across the field - such is the way when you're touting a 12" weapons range.
It is also for this reason I always preferred Jetbikes over Dire Avengers and Jetbike mounted Seers/Locks over their foot slogging counterparts. Simply couldn't see the value in having units that only got to fire half the time or wasted entire turns sitting in transports unable to engage anything. Plus denying the enemy targets by using the Assault phase move was always very "fluffy" in the "catch me if you can" sense of Eldar's play style.
this is not unique to eldar...all melta gun troopers needed a ride...
sigh you dont even know what they do yet...or the rest of the army....
they got battle focus (run/shoot) and a 3+ save for one...
People are the ones telling me that it is worth 22 points is worth a meltagun meltabombed model. I am simply saying they had the near same wargear in the old codex with %30 percent cheaper models and they didn't work back then.
The sky may not be falling, but it sure isn't roses and cup cakes.
sigh you dont even know what they do yet...or the rest of the army....
they got battle focus (run/shoot) and a 3+ save for one...
People are the ones telling me that it is worth 22 points is worth a meltagun meltabombed model. I am simply saying they had the near same wargear in the old codex with %30 percent cheaper models and they didn't work back then.
The sky may not be falling, but it sure isn't roses and cup cakes.
Yeah, i see the point about trying to get the WS cheaper. Thats always been the Eldar way, though: T3 but expensive toys and abilities. But they've always had very good psychic abilities to make up for some short comings.
Same type of thing with high elves in fantasy. You take the bare minimum of core and load up on the specials, because thats where you heavy hitters are. I havent seen the the new army book, but i imagine it will be the same armies, with a mix of the newer specials.
Pershore wrote: Haven't seen this posted in the thread. In the WD battle report a Wave Serpent "fires its serpent shield". It doesn't sound mega powerful - it kills 2 Necron Warriors - but it maybe another nice little capability for the Serpents to have.
I think most Eldar players would love a price decrease on now overcosted transport and not some gimmicks that artificially increase it's price.
I'd much rather have WS for 70 points with SCannon included than than 90 points with (probably around D6 S6 AP4) attack that will never do anything significant.
KaiyaA wrote: Is it better to pre-order stuff or buy the codex first in you guys' opinion?
Never pre-order anything. EVER.
Pre-ordering is the fanboy's ultimate demonstration of having more money than sense. When you pre-order a product, what you say to the company that makes it is, "I am so impulsive/uncritical/unwilling to control my spending that I will give you my money even before you show me a product... I just want the promise of being the first to have the product. Whatever it is. Pre-ordering is nothing more than giving a company your permission to cheat you with a disappointing upcoming product.
You are a consumer. You have the money. Therefore you have the power. Make the producer prove to you that they deserve your money by putting the physical product in your hands. When you pre-order, you disempower yourself in order to have the sliver of nerd-cred at having the latest new shiney a day or so before other people do... ignoring that the moment another new shiney comes out, your nerd cred will completely evaporate.
Unless, like myself, you're now just collecting the miniatures... rarely playing the game itself.
Pre-ordering a codex or other kind of books makes sense. You are right about everything else.
Same goes for the cards, which every Eldar player who owns a Farseer (so everyone), will probably use. And the same goes for the spiritseer, for those who use wraithguard like myself. I don't need the stats to know that I will be using those things. The rest, though, I will wait on.
I think 22 pts for a fire dragon is reasonable, especially if they now have a 3+ save, if anything in the 4th edition codex they were about the only thing that was undercosted.... Now I agree in 6th with the changes to vehicles, waveserpents are no longer worth the 90 points they cost for the bare minimum, but back in 5th they were pretty good at getting fire dragons to that must kill target. Hopefully Phil Kelly is aware of the problems the eldar vehicles face now with outdated upgrades such as holofields, I could see the wave serpent either coming down in price or staying the same and maybe getting some new rules. Personally I never had a problem with being hugely outnumbered for models on the table when playing as Eldar as it felt fluffy because I knew I could still pull some Eldar trickery, hopefully the new codex has nice special rules for Eldar units that keeps some of that flavor. I'll reserve my judgement on whether anything is now ''useless'' as I've yet to read the codex.
BTW I don't think that Adam Troke helped with the Eldar background. Why should Jes and Phil explain the background to Adam in the new WD then? You can't write Eldar background without Jes. He co-wrote the Dark Eldar background as well.
It's so good to know some people have apparently played the new Eldar already, with them already knowing which units were nerfed and all...
GW leaves the aspects unchanged - people are unhappy
GW changes the way aspects work - people are unhappy
Being able to run before or after you shoot makes them more survivable/dangerous, especially with their added armor.
However, apparently Phill said in the WD, it makes Fire Dragons the best tank hunters around, and Banshees possibly the fastest and most deadly combat troops, neither of which would really be because of being able to run and shoot.
This makes me think Battle focus might be more line with the combat drugs rule, where you roll or choose from a table to see what boost your individual squad/army in general gets.
It could be anything from making your troops faster like the run&shoot rule, to making them shootier or deadlier in CC
So let's please withhold from saying which units have been nerfed until we get the codex or more leaks.
Ok guys I apologise if this is off topic and I don't mind someone moving this to another thread if it is.
Im pre ordering the new Eldar codex and I'm going to have it delivered, money is a bit of an issue so I want to get a few more items to save with shipping. With a maximum budget of about 200 euro (£170 or $260) what units would you guys recommend I get, keeping in mind my current lack of Wraithgurd/wraithlord/war walkers (I'm kind of a noob to eldar). Any help and advice is appreciated.
KaiyaA wrote: Ok guys I apologise if this is off topic and I don't mind someone moving this to another thread if it is.
Im pre ordering the new Eldar codex and I'm going to have it delivered, money is a bit of an issue so I want to get a few more items to save with shipping. With a maximum budget of about 200 euro (£170 or $260) what units would you guys recommend I get, keeping in mind my current lack of Wraithgurd/wraithlord/war walkers (I'm kind of a noob to eldar). Any help and advice is appreciated.
Maybe some wraithguard/wraithlord/warwalkers or a combination of them?
Generally its best to read the codex before you buy stuff or just buy stuff you think looks cool.
Someone on the Warseer forum threw around the rules of the Remnant of Glory:
- Mantle of the laughing god: hit and run, shrouded, stealth, reroll cover saves but you lose the IC rule (doesn't replace one of your weapons)
- Shard of Anaris: +2Str melee and rending melee weapon, in challenges you have flesh bane and instant death.
- Firesabre: +1Str, AP3 and soul blaze
- Faolchi wings: can run up to 48" in the shooting phase. But can't shoot charge or cast psychic powers, reroll all cover saves.
- Spirit stone: You give up your invun save until next turn so that you can reduce the charge cost of a power by 1 to a minimum of 1 (Farseer/spiritseer only, doesn't replace one of your weapons)
- Rifle: 120" standard sniper rifle, AP3.
- Phoenix gem. Before wearer dies roll a d6, on a 1 nothing happens but 2-6 a large blast is placed on the model, friend and foe suffer Str4 AP5 hits, if no one dies the wearer removed but if only 1 model dies the wearer gets back up with 1 wound. (One use only, doesn't replace one of your weapons)
KaiyaA wrote: Is it better to pre-order stuff or buy the codex first in you guys' opinion?
Never pre-order anything. EVER.
Pre-ordering is the fanboy's ultimate demonstration of having more money than sense. When you pre-order a product, what you say to the company that makes it is, "I am so impulsive/uncritical/unwilling to control my spending that I will give you my money even before you show me a product... I just want the promise of being the first to have the product. Whatever it is. Pre-ordering is nothing more than giving a company your permission to cheat you with a disappointing upcoming product.
You are a consumer. You have the money. Therefore you have the power. Make the producer prove to you that they deserve your money by putting the physical product in your hands. When you pre-order, you disempower yourself in order to have the sliver of nerd-cred at having the latest new shiney a day or so before other people do... ignoring that the moment another new shiney comes out, your nerd cred will completely evaporate.
I assume you'll never support a Kickstarter, then.
The problem with waiting for the dex is money. I kinda need to order a few items together. Pretty much my question was was there anything that even before the dex comes out, we know is good and will be worth buying?
KaiyaA wrote: The problem with waiting for the dex is money. I kinda need to order a few items together. Pretty much my question was was there anything that even before the dex comes out, we know is good and will be worth buying?
What sort of Eldar army do you want to play? One that is optimised (no one knows until the codex drops what this will be) or something thematic? Iyanden is a good way to go, with lots of Wraith constructs and such, or Saim Hann, with Vyper squadrons and massed jetbikes (which are great in the current edition.)
We know you'll want at least one box of guardians as even with their current rules most people use at least one unit to hold objectives.
We know you'll want at least one unit of fire dragons because a unit of meltas is useful regardless of their rules or price. And given the changes we know of, they still seem valuable.
You will want the new plastic farseer because chances are they're still going to be the best HQ in the book.
So I don't know what your price point you're shooting for is or what units you already have, but if I were starting over without anything, I'd get these at a minimum.
Well currently I have quite a well rounded list. I have rangers, harlequins, guardians, dire avengers, dark reapers, war walker, wave serpent, 4 jetbikes, eldrad, warlocks and the avatar.
So as you can tell my army is neither Iyanden or Saim Hann. I suppose it is mostly a Footdar list.
What do you mean by no longer needing it? It was just a debuff that made them go durrrr on a 1 if there wasn't a seer around. Now you no longer have to baby-sit them anymore apparently .
KaiyaA wrote: Well currently I have quite a well rounded list. I have rangers, harlequins, guardians, dire avengers, dark reapers, war walker, wave serpent, 4 jetbikes, eldrad, warlocks and the avatar.
So as you can tell my army is neither Iyanden or Saim Hann. I suppose it is mostly a Footdar list.
Hmm.
And how much more do you need to spend?
Spiders and Fire Dragons will probably be the safest for you. Wraithlord also for a footdar list, but that's something I'd strongly suggest waiting on the new dex for. If they are changed to T7 they may not be that great with the Knight being T8 in theory. But from what we've heard about the knight so far, I'm not sure it's worth the cost of 2 wraithlords either. I wouldn't buy any wraith unit until I saw the new rules even though I'm sure each of them are probably a sure bet with the new models and iyanden being the supplement of choice.
Thank you for the advice. I definitely wouldn't spend 90 euro on a wraithknight without seeing it's stats first. And I can't remember where I read it but I heard the wraithguard will be keeping their T8.
ActuallyI hadn't thought of that but considering the increased focus on Iyanden it would b illogical for wraith units to be nerfed.
Ok look I am excited that eldar got an update I have a bunch of friends tha play them(I am a little upset sold my eldar army lie 3 months ago....wife said 7 40k armies was way too much, I disagree new babies love 40k armies right?). Here are my problems though, first of what the is with the insanely huge wraith knight thing it is the size of a Titan. That is just to way over the top. When tau got the riptide I thought that is pretty cool and kind of falls into the fluff, but this eldar thing is has no place in fluff or on the table in a standard game. It really seems like GW is doing to 40k what they are doing to fantasy but every army in 40k doesn't need a giant monster thing. Finally what is the deal with all the wraith everything I thought they were supposed to be rare and not used often. And what is the deal with havering close combat ones how dose that work as I understood the fluff they were ancient spirit filled constructs, so no where near fast enough to handle hand to hand combat(if I am wrong please correct me). It just seems to me that GW said well everyone likes terminators for sm so lets give the eldar there own version and they get all there other awesome stuff to. Ultimately saying in the end sm have nothing and we have no reason to run them eldar got everything, and if you are tau they took your thunder a little too I think. Also on a side note they had better nerfed wraithlords because if they didn't and gave them an even more huge powerful version than that is insane. Sorry if anyone doesn't agree if you don't please let me know why.
How many more people are going to insist that the WK has no place in Eldar fluff, when it is essentially a knight, which have been in Eldar fluff for longer than most players have been reading the fluff? Jes Goodwin even declares it "an homage to the old Eldar Knights of yesteryear" in the new WD.
sigh you dont even know what they do yet...or the rest of the army....
they got battle focus (run/shoot) and a 3+ save for one...
People are the ones telling me that it is worth 22 points is worth a meltagun meltabombed model. I am simply saying they had the near same wargear in the old codex with %30 percent cheaper models and they didn't work back then.
The sky may not be falling, but it sure isn't roses and cup cakes.
this is not unique to eldar...all melta gun troopers needed a ride...
But theya re not 100 point tanks, they are either 35 points drop pods,rhinos. or 55 point chimeras
But Rhinos and Chimeras aren't fast skimmers that deny the extra +D6 from melta weapons. I think they are one of the best transports in the game. As was also pointed out: the new rules of run/shoot adds even more threat. I also think that viewing the "transport tax" is the wrong way of looking at it. We'll have to agree to disagree. 16pt Fire Dragons were too cheap, plain and simple.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I wonder if Jetbikes will still be able to upgrade 1 in 3 to tbe shuriken cannon. Also hope that guardian squads will still be able to run 20 man units. My Black Guardians of Ulthwe should be seeing the table again.
shade1313 wrote: How many more people are going to insist that the WK has no place in Eldar fluff, when it is essentially a knight, which have been in Eldar fluff for longer than most players have been reading the fluff? Jes Goodwin even declares it "an homage to the old Eldar Knights of yesteryear" in the new WD.
Me, I want my Eldar Dino Riders first. And even though it was like 20 years ago I'm pretty sure craft world Eldar didn't have knights.
shade1313 wrote: How many more people are going to insist that the WK has no place in Eldar fluff, when it is essentially a knight, which have been in Eldar fluff for longer than most players have been reading the fluff? Jes Goodwin even declares it "an homage to the old Eldar Knights of yesteryear" in the new WD.
Me, I want my Eldar Dino Riders first. And even though it was like 20 years ago I'm pretty sure craft world Eldar didn't have knights.
They did in Epic. There were some Exodite models made that never saw general release. I actually like the Wraithknight a lot more than I did after the initial pictures. Time to start buttering up the GF... :p
shade1313 wrote: How many more people are going to insist that the WK has no place in Eldar fluff, when it is essentially a knight, which have been in Eldar fluff for longer than most players have been reading the fluff? Jes Goodwin even declares it "an homage to the old Eldar Knights of yesteryear" in the new WD.
Me, I want my Eldar Dino Riders first. And even though it was like 20 years ago I'm pretty sure craft world Eldar didn't have knights.
They did in Epic. There were some Exodite models made that never saw general release. I actually like the Wraithknight a lot more than I did after the initial pictures. Time to start buttering up the GF... :p
I just hate how out of whack it is with the scale of the rest of the game. Anything bigger than the Dreadknight is just silly IMO.
shade1313 wrote: How many more people are going to insist that the WK has no place in Eldar fluff, when it is essentially a knight, which have been in Eldar fluff for longer than most players have been reading the fluff? Jes Goodwin even declares it "an homage to the old Eldar Knights of yesteryear" in the new WD.
Me, I want my Eldar Dino Riders first. And even though it was like 20 years ago I'm pretty sure craft world Eldar didn't have knights.
They did in Epic. There were some Exodite models made that never saw general release. I actually like the Wraithknight a lot more than I did after the initial pictures. Time to start buttering up the GF... :p
I just hate how out of whack it is with the scale of the rest of the game. Anything bigger than the Dreadknight is just silly IMO.
You might not want to go on the Forge World website...
shade1313 wrote: How many more people are going to insist that the WK has no place in Eldar fluff, when it is essentially a knight, which have been in Eldar fluff for longer than most players have been reading the fluff? Jes Goodwin even declares it "an homage to the old Eldar Knights of yesteryear" in the new WD.
Me, I want my Eldar Dino Riders first. And even though it was like 20 years ago I'm pretty sure craft world Eldar didn't have knights.
They did in Epic. There were some Exodite models made that never saw general release. I actually like the Wraithknight a lot more than I did after the initial pictures. Time to start buttering up the GF... :p
I just hate how out of whack it is with the scale of the rest of the game. Anything bigger than the Dreadknight is just silly IMO.
Where have you been since they released Superheavies, Titans, and Gargantuan Creatures?
shade1313 wrote: How many more people are going to insist that the WK has no place in Eldar fluff, when it is essentially a knight, which have been in Eldar fluff for longer than most players have been reading the fluff? Jes Goodwin even declares it "an homage to the old Eldar Knights of yesteryear" in the new WD.
Me, I want my Eldar Dino Riders first. And even though it was like 20 years ago I'm pretty sure craft world Eldar didn't have knights.
They did in Epic. There were some Exodite models made that never saw general release. I actually like the Wraithknight a lot more than I did after the initial pictures. Time to start buttering up the GF... :p
I just hate how out of whack it is with the scale of the rest of the game. Anything bigger than the Dreadknight is just silly IMO.
You might not want to go on the Forge World website...
Apocalypse and Warhammer 40k is not the same game tho...That said, I will be getting 2 WKs for my eldar
Considering that Jes Goodwin designed the original Eldar Knights, AND drew the initial design drawing for the Wraithknight (pictured in the WD), and Eldar have always been his baby from a design standpoint, I'll defer to him.
shade1313 wrote: How many more people are going to insist that the WK has no place in Eldar fluff, when it is essentially a knight, which have been in Eldar fluff for longer than most players have been reading the fluff? Jes Goodwin even declares it "an homage to the old Eldar Knights of yesteryear" in the new WD.
They have their place in the Eldar fluff, sure. But I think what most people react agaisnt is that they can and will show up in 1-1.5K battles.
As far as I know, in "lesser" battles Eldar are more in to using swift strikeforces. A WK just doesn't sit well with ambushes (too big), jumping out of webway gates (too big, most of the time I guess), or with jetbikes (probably too slow).
If you play these kind of armies, then I think it's easier to say that they don't fit their fluff...
this looks a bit rambled, but I think you know what I mean ...I'm tired...
Don't like the massive thing in the slightest. Looks totally silly in 40k.
Other than that, the new models look pretty sweet. Shame they're eldar and therefore I will never buy any, but I look forward to battling against them.
shade1313 wrote: How many more people are going to insist that the WK has no place in Eldar fluff, when it is essentially a knight, which have been in Eldar fluff for longer than most players have been reading the fluff? Jes Goodwin even declares it "an homage to the old Eldar Knights of yesteryear" in the new WD.
Which is my point exactly. They had FW and Epic models to go off of. No reason to re-invent the wheel. Just make them better versions, not super Barbie.
It might have been a good idea of introduce the separate superheavy slot like there's in HH. One Wraithknight in a 1500 point army seems perfectly fine to me, three, not so much...
BryllCream wrote: Don't like the massive thing in the slightest. Looks totally silly in 40k.
Agreed. It would look fantastic in Apocalypse (especially considering it's priced on par with Stompa's and Baneblades), but has no place in regular 40k. They should have just given us a Hive Tyrant-scaled plastic Avatar and new Jetbike sculpts, and kept this back for the new Apoc book in a couple of months.
My only regret regarding the Wraithknight is that it is so small. I'll start the petitions right now for a plastic Revenant and Phantom kit. The SMs can get their long desired plastic Thunderhawk.
Seriously, though. If you do not like big models, don't use them. Some of us like them. Personally, I believe that Apocalypse is the only "real" 40K out there, and everything else is just kid stuff.
We all have a right to differing opinions. Find a club that fits yours.
That said, I preordered 6 Wraithknights for my Apocalypse force. They will make good, tiny cannon fodder for my 3 Phantoms.
Oh, and to the guy complaining about close combat Wraith constructs -- the ancient Ghost Warrior minis would like a word with you.
adamsouza wrote: Have no intention of playing Eldar, but I want one of these
Can plastic Warhounds be that far off now ?
I hate to give in to the whole 'it is the picture' thing but... that angle makes the Wraithknight look a lot better than I initially thought!
Also, I'd say we'd see plastic Knights for the Imperium before a plastic Warhound, but who knows?
I just hope it would be the far superior Mars pattern one, but with all those smooth, curved round surfaces.... we'd probably end up with the inferior and boxy Lucius pattern...
Give me wraithlords in squadrons. Then maybe i can change super barbie into somethi better. Have 3 war walkers, 3 wraithlords, Avatar, and super barbie castling one side of the board. Thats a lot of fire power....
Carresuith wrote: Personally, I believe that Apocalypse is the only "real" 40K out there, and everything else is just kid stuff.
That's an interesting opinion, I actually think the opposite. Apocalypse can be so ridiculous and rules have to be made up on the spot, that it's really only good for a day of drinking, laughing, and playing with your biggest toys. You know, kid stuff, whereas a game of 40K attempts to be a contest between two players that matches wits and relies on good decisions to achieve victory.
Pershore wrote: Haven't seen this posted in the thread. In the WD battle report a Wave Serpent "fires its serpent shield". It doesn't sound mega powerful - it kills 2 Necron Warriors - but it maybe another nice little capability for the Serpents to have.
I think most Eldar players would love a price decrease on now overcosted transport and not some gimmicks that artificially increase it's price.
I'd much rather have WS for 70 points with SCannon included than than 90 points with (probably around D6 S6 AP4) attack that will never do anything significant.
So I'm curious, what price would you put on a basic WS with shurikancannon (twinlinked)? Currently it is 100 points, carries 12 models, is a AV 1212/10 fast skimmer, has twin linked catapults in addition to the cannon, has the shield that drops all shooting attacks on the front and side armour to S8 and prevents melta.
The most comparable (role-wise) nonEldar vehicle is probably the Razorback. Now, to give it close to the same armament, you would need to upgrade to twin linked assault cannons. That puts it up to 75 points per the DA codex. Now, for 25 points more, you get fast skimmer versus tank, you get twice the transport capacity, +1 AV on the front and sides, AND you get the shield system. All of that is worth more than 25 points IMO, but the Razorback has +1 BS, one extra S6 rending shot, and its small arms have 24" range (but lack the Bladestorm ability), and weapon upgrades are cheaper (its always 75 points, but the WS can go up to 135).
Given the competition, I still say that 100-115 points for a multipurpose, fast (and slightly durable) transport/light tank is a reasonable price. Anything less and you have to start stripping away ability. You want a 50 point WS? In order to have any semblence of external balance you would have to strip away 1 AV, the shield, and the twin linked turret. You get a faster Rhino that carries 12 models instead of 10. 75 points? Strip away the twin linked turret, keep the extra AV and shield. Its still a faster Rhino, but you pay for the extra survivability.
I'm still torn on whether or not to preorder a Wraithknight. I know I'm getting the codex, the flier, and Illic for now, but I'm not sure if I want it yet. On the other hand, if I do now is the time to buy so I can take advantage of preorder discounts to get more off than normal... Decisions, decisions.
Pershore wrote: Haven't seen this posted in the thread. In the WD battle report a Wave Serpent "fires its serpent shield". It doesn't sound mega powerful - it kills 2 Necron Warriors - but it maybe another nice little capability for the Serpents to have.
I think most Eldar players would love a price decrease on now overcosted transport and not some gimmicks that artificially increase it's price.
I'd much rather have WS for 70 points with SCannon included than than 90 points with (probably around D6 S6 AP4) attack that will never do anything significant.
So I'm curious, what price would you put on a basic WS with shurikancannon (twinlinked)? Currently it is 100 points, carries 12 models, is a AV 1212/10 fast skimmer, has twin linked catapults in addition to the cannon, has the shield that drops all shooting attacks on the front and side armour to S8 and prevents melta.
The most comparable (role-wise) nonEldar vehicle is probably the Razorback. Now, to give it close to the same armament, you would need to upgrade to twin linked assault cannons. That puts it up to 75 points per the DA codex. Now, for 25 points more, you get fast skimmer versus tank, you get twice the transport capacity, +1 AV on the front and sides, AND you get the shield system. All of that is worth more than 25 points IMO, but the Razorback has +1 BS, one extra S6 rending shot, and its small arms have 24" range (but lack the Bladestorm ability), and weapon upgrades are cheaper (its always 75 points, but the WS can go up to 135).
Given the competition, I still say that 100-115 points for a multipurpose, fast (and slightly durable) transport/light tank is a reasonable price. Anything less and you have to start stripping away ability. You want a 50 point WS? In order to have any semblence of external balance you would have to strip away 1 AV, the shield, and the twin linked turret. You get a faster Rhino that carries 12 models instead of 10. 75 points? Strip away the twin linked turret, keep the extra AV and shield. Its still a faster Rhino, but you pay for the extra survivability.
This. Nice to see that someone gets it. I forgot about the changing all ranged attacks to S8.
Pershore wrote: Haven't seen this posted in the thread. In the WD battle report a Wave Serpent "fires its serpent shield". It doesn't sound mega powerful - it kills 2 Necron Warriors - but it maybe another nice little capability for the Serpents to have.
I think most Eldar players would love a price decrease on now overcosted transport and not some gimmicks that artificially increase it's price.
I'd much rather have WS for 70 points with SCannon included than than 90 points with (probably around D6 S6 AP4) attack that will never do anything significant.
So I'm curious, what price would you put on a basic WS with shurikancannon (twinlinked)? Currently it is 100 points, carries 12 models, is a AV 1212/10 fast skimmer, has twin linked catapults in addition to the cannon, has the shield that drops all shooting attacks on the front and side armour to S8 and prevents melta.
The most comparable (role-wise) nonEldar vehicle is probably the Razorback. Now, to give it close to the same armament, you would need to upgrade to twin linked assault cannons. That puts it up to 75 points per the DA codex. Now, for 25 points more, you get fast skimmer versus tank, you get twice the transport capacity, +1 AV on the front and sides, AND you get the shield system. All of that is worth more than 25 points IMO, but the Razorback has +1 BS, one extra S6 rending shot, and its small arms have 24" range (but lack the Bladestorm ability), and weapon upgrades are cheaper (its always 75 points, but the WS can go up to 135).
Given the competition, I still say that 100-115 points for a multipurpose, fast (and slightly durable) transport/light tank is a reasonable price. Anything less and you have to start stripping away ability. You want a 50 point WS? In order to have any semblence of external balance you would have to strip away 1 AV, the shield, and the twin linked turret. You get a faster Rhino that carries 12 models instead of 10. 75 points? Strip away the twin linked turret, keep the extra AV and shield. Its still a faster Rhino, but you pay for the extra survivability.
Way to take the worst examples ever and intentionally or non, mislead.
The role vise example is the rhino, not razorback. Although even this is a bad comparison.
So upgrading to TL ass cannon is unnecessary.
That gives us a 35 point 10 model carrying unit with 2 fire points which goes only 6" less then WS.
The shield is overrated, since you will get shot down by HP before that shield makes its points. I would personally leave it if i can.
The extra AV is counterparted by the fire points .
The extra weapon is useless if you try to use the vehicle to it's intentions, which is to deliver its max 18" ranged infantry, because you go flat out to get there.
If you are going to make a comparison don't make it with the most overpriced transport in a meq codex(which is a kitted out razorback), make it against a rhino or even better a chimera, that thing has nearly twice the fire power same capacity and 5 fire points, only goes 6" less per turn and is half the wave serpent points.
KaiyaA wrote: Is it better to pre-order stuff or buy the codex first in you guys' opinion?
Never pre-order anything. EVER.
Pre-ordering is the fanboy's ultimate demonstration of having more money than sense. When you pre-order a product, what you say to the company that makes it is, "I am so impulsive/uncritical/unwilling to control my spending that I will give you my money even before you show me a product... I just want the promise of being the first to have the product. Whatever it is. Pre-ordering is nothing more than giving a company your permission to cheat you with a disappointing upcoming product.
You are a consumer. You have the money. Therefore you have the power. Make the producer prove to you that they deserve your money by putting the physical product in your hands. When you pre-order, you disempower yourself in order to have the sliver of nerd-cred at having the latest new shiney a day or so before other people do... ignoring that the moment another new shiney comes out, your nerd cred will completely evaporate.
Unless, like myself, you're now just collecting the miniatures... rarely playing the game itself.
Pre-ordering a codex or other kind of books makes sense. You are right about everything else.
There are multiple ways to enjoy this hobby, collecting is one. Just because I don't know if a model is great or crap in the rules doesn't mean I won't get it personally. It seriously grinds my gears that Game focused hobbyists (who have every right to enjoy the hobby as such) assume everyone is on the same page as them.
Let's hope not. A plastic Warhound would be amazing.
That would trample on Forge World too much, and GW doesn't like to do that anymore. It'll more likely be a HoundKnight with variations to make it a WolfKnight, DarkKnight, BloodKnight, HellKnight, and KnightTemplar.
Pershore wrote: Haven't seen this posted in the thread. In the WD battle report a Wave Serpent "fires its serpent shield". It doesn't sound mega powerful - it kills 2 Necron Warriors - but it maybe another nice little capability for the Serpents to have.
I think most Eldar players would love a price decrease on now overcosted transport and not some gimmicks that artificially increase it's price.
I'd much rather have WS for 70 points with SCannon included than than 90 points with (probably around D6 S6 AP4) attack that will never do anything significant.
So I'm curious, what price would you put on a basic WS with shurikancannon (twinlinked)? Currently it is 100 points, carries 12 models, is a AV 1212/10 fast skimmer, has twin linked catapults in addition to the cannon, has the shield that drops all shooting attacks on the front and side armour to S8 and prevents melta.
The most comparable (role-wise) nonEldar vehicle is probably the Razorback. Now, to give it close to the same armament, you would need to upgrade to twin linked assault cannons. That puts it up to 75 points per the DA codex. Now, for 25 points more, you get fast skimmer versus tank, you get twice the transport capacity, +1 AV on the front and sides, AND you get the shield system. All of that is worth more than 25 points IMO, but the Razorback has +1 BS, one extra S6 rending shot, and its small arms have 24" range (but lack the Bladestorm ability), and weapon upgrades are cheaper (its always 75 points, but the WS can go up to 135).
Given the competition, I still say that 100-115 points for a multipurpose, fast (and slightly durable) transport/light tank is a reasonable price. Anything less and you have to start stripping away ability. You want a 50 point WS? In order to have any semblence of external balance you would have to strip away 1 AV, the shield, and the twin linked turret. You get a faster Rhino that carries 12 models instead of 10. 75 points? Strip away the twin linked turret, keep the extra AV and shield. Its still a faster Rhino, but you pay for the extra survivability.
Assigning points is not simply a matter of comparing them to another army, or a chart based on a vehicle's capabilities. Game designs that use such methods are usually terribly unbalanced. It is important to judge the army as a whole. Most Eldar troops do not have alot of armor. Further, on the whole they do not have as long range weapons as the Tau. Quite simply, they are very reliant on transports. If the troop/vehicle combo is too expensive then the army will not work.
Why wouldn't GW release a plastic warhound? They already stomped on FW with the superheavy tanks. They would make $ hand over fist if they released such an awesome model in plastic for their upcoming Apoc release.
Pershore wrote: Haven't seen this posted in the thread. In the WD battle report a Wave Serpent "fires its serpent shield". It doesn't sound mega powerful - it kills 2 Necron Warriors - but it maybe another nice little capability for the Serpents to have.
I think most Eldar players would love a price decrease on now overcosted transport and not some gimmicks that artificially increase it's price.
I'd much rather have WS for 70 points with SCannon included than than 90 points with (probably around D6 S6 AP4) attack that will never do anything significant.
So I'm curious, what price would you put on a basic WS with shurikancannon (twinlinked)? Currently it is 100 points, carries 12 models, is a AV 1212/10 fast skimmer, has twin linked catapults in addition to the cannon, has the shield that drops all shooting attacks on the front and side armour to S8 and prevents melta.
The most comparable (role-wise) nonEldar vehicle is probably the Razorback. Now, to give it close to the same armament, you would need to upgrade to twin linked assault cannons. That puts it up to 75 points per the DA codex. Now, for 25 points more, you get fast skimmer versus tank, you get twice the transport capacity, +1 AV on the front and sides, AND you get the shield system. All of that is worth more than 25 points IMO, but the Razorback has +1 BS, one extra S6 rending shot, and its small arms have 24" range (but lack the Bladestorm ability), and weapon upgrades are cheaper (its always 75 points, but the WS can go up to 135).
Given the competition, I still say that 100-115 points for a multipurpose, fast (and slightly durable) transport/light tank is a reasonable price. Anything less and you have to start stripping away ability. You want a 50 point WS? In order to have any semblence of external balance you would have to strip away 1 AV, the shield, and the twin linked turret. You get a faster Rhino that carries 12 models instead of 10. 75 points? Strip away the twin linked turret, keep the extra AV and shield. Its still a faster Rhino, but you pay for the extra survivability.
One of the biggest issue Serpents have is the premium they pay on weapons, which is what drives them into the unusable category rather than just being overpriced. There is no way that a twin linked assault cannon is equivilent to any of the Eldar armaments, it is massively superior to Scatter Lasers and the EML particularly when you factor in BS4. The closest Marine equivilent is a basic Razor with Psybolt, which is half the point cost. Essentially if you combine a BA Rhino and a GK Razorback into one tank you are getting something close to a Serpent, which comes out at under 100pts easily. That doesn't even factor in their importance to the army, Eldar are always going to be far more fragile than Marines, so rely much more of transports to keep their guys alive.
Assigning points is not simply a matter of comparing them to another army, or a chart based on a vehicle's capabilities. Game designs that use such methods are usually terribly unbalanced. It is important to judge the army as a whole. Most Eldar troops do not have alot of armor. Further, on the whole they do not have as long range weapons as the Tau. Quite simply, they are very reliant on transports. If the troop/vehicle combo is too expensive then the army will not work.
While that is a valid point, I do have serious issues with that becoming an excuse of why your skimmer transport with the same capacity should be better armed, faster, more durable and cheaper than the closest equivalent (the devilfish).
Assigning points is not simply a matter of comparing them to another army, or a chart based on a vehicle's capabilities. Game designs that use such methods are usually terribly unbalanced. It is important to judge the army as a whole. Most Eldar troops do not have alot of armor. Further, on the whole they do not have as long range weapons as the Tau. Quite simply, they are very reliant on transports. If the troop/vehicle combo is too expensive then the army will not work.
While that is a valid point, I do have serious issues with that becoming an excuse of why your skimmer transport with the same capacity should be better armed, faster, more durable and cheaper than the closest equivalent (the devilfish).
Yeah, they really dropped the ball on devilfish, although a sms devilfish is half decent imho. (still expensive)
Macok wrote: I think most Eldar players would love a price decrease on now overcosted transport and not some gimmicks that artificially increase it's price. I'd much rather have WS for 70 points with SCannon included than than 90 points with (probably around D6 S6 AP4) attack that will never do anything significant.
So I'm curious, what price would you put on a basic WS with shurikancannon (twinlinked)? Currently it is 100 points, carries 12 models, is a AV 1212/10 fast skimmer, has twin linked catapults in addition to the cannon, has the shield that drops all shooting attacks on the front and side armour to S8 and prevents melta.
The most comparable (role-wise) nonEldar vehicle is probably the Razorback. Now, to give it close to the same armament, you would need to upgrade to twin linked assault cannons. That puts it up to 75 points per the DA codex. Now, for 25 points more, you get fast skimmer versus tank, you get twice the transport capacity, +1 AV on the front and sides, AND you get the shield system. All of that is worth more than 25 points IMO, but the Razorback has +1 BS, one extra S6 rending shot, and its small arms have 24" range (but lack the Bladestorm ability), and weapon upgrades are cheaper (its always 75 points, but the WS can go up to 135).
Given the competition, I still say that 100-115 points for a multipurpose, fast (and slightly durable) transport/light tank is a reasonable price. Anything less and you have to start stripping away ability. You want a 50 point WS? In order to have any semblence of external balance you would have to strip away 1 AV, the shield, and the twin linked turret. You get a faster Rhino that carries 12 models instead of 10. 75 points? Strip away the twin linked turret, keep the extra AV and shield. Its still a faster Rhino, but you pay for the extra survivability.
Sure it's reasonably priced. That is why they almost ceased to exist in the game. Because they are "appropriately priced".
They are still 3HP AV10 at back, are hit on 3+ in CC no matter how fast they travel and may disembark troops only after moving 6", And it's BS3. It's waaay too easy to destroy for 100 points. And as previously mentioned, your comparison to Razorback is not a good one. 100 points is a Night Scythe. Do you think that Wave Serpent at 100 is any shape or form comparable with it? To Ghost Ark with twin scatters?
Last edition, when transports where The Kings, Serpents were ok-ish. You really think that edition that pounded them to the ground should not give them any discount?
And yes, if you read my post you'd know that I want to have a cheaper transport. If it means removing some of things, fine. If they have to leave everything as-is then fine, decrease the cost even by little bit. Don't add half-assed upgrades that won't do anything and leave it so expensive.
EDIT: If it changes anything, I also think that Devilfish could use some price decrease.
Absolutionis wrote: That would trample on Forge World too much, and GW doesn't like to do that anymore. It'll more likely be a HoundKnight with variations to make it a WolfKnight, DarkKnight, BloodKnight, HellKnight, and KnightTemplar.
Yeah but with a new Apoc just around the corner, it makes sense to do a Warhound (usable by all Imperial and Chaos players).
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah but with a new Apoc just around the corner, it makes sense to do a Warhound (usable by all Imperial and Chaos players).
The next big Imperial kit is almost guaranteed to be a new unit, most likely a Knight variant. Still usable by all human armies and not threading on FW's turf.
Not that I wouldn't like to see a plastic Warhound...
Edit: Okay, this is both awkward and embarrassing, what with the TypeKnight count in the post right above mine.
with the plethora of Spahse Knights: Ultra Knight, Spikey Knight, Dark Knight, Blood Knight, White Knight, Smurph Knight (oxymoron), Templar Knight, Wolf Knight and it will all just cost an extra $50 for the suppliment to use!
Macok wrote: Sure it's reasonably priced. That is why they almost ceased to exist in the game. Because they are "appropriately priced".
They are still 3HP AV10 at back, are hit on 3+ in CC no matter how fast they travel and may disembark troops only after moving 6", And it's BS3. It's waaay too easy to destroy for 100 points.
And as previously mentioned, your comparison to Razorback is not a good one. 100 points is a Night Scythe. Do you think that Wave Serpent at 100 is any shape or form comparable with it? To Ghost Ark with twin scatters?
Last edition, when transports where The Kings, Serpents were ok-ish. You really think that edition that pounded them to the ground should not give them any discount?
And yes, if you read my post you'd know that I want to have a cheaper transport. If it means removing some of things, fine. If they have to leave everything as-is then fine, decrease the cost even by little bit. Don't add half-assed upgrades that won't do anything and leave it so expensive.
EDIT: If it changes anything, I also think that Devilfish could use some price decrease.
I'm fine with Eldar having a cheaper wave serpent, as long as its the ability is stripped accordingly. As it is currently, the WS is priced about right at the 100-115 range. Also, the Devilfish isn't getting a points reduction for a long, long time, so I think my original point stands, the WS is priced right in comparison to other similarly-roled vehicles that have been pointed since 6th edition came out. Yes, both the razorback and devilfish are overly expensive points-wise IMO, but GW seems to (foolishly) think vehicles work the way they are supposed to and doesn't seem too concerned about reducing their cost.
Instead of making the WS cheaper, maybe Eldar just need a metal bawks like the Rhino. Only then, Eldar players will be mad because they now have to field a free First Blood gimme every game.
Macok wrote: Sure it's reasonably priced. That is why they almost ceased to exist in the game. Because they are "appropriately priced".
They are still 3HP AV10 at back, are hit on 3+ in CC no matter how fast they travel and may disembark troops only after moving 6", And it's BS3. It's waaay too easy to destroy for 100 points.
And as previously mentioned, your comparison to Razorback is not a good one. 100 points is a Night Scythe. Do you think that Wave Serpent at 100 is any shape or form comparable with it? To Ghost Ark with twin scatters?
Last edition, when transports where The Kings, Serpents were ok-ish. You really think that edition that pounded them to the ground should not give them any discount?
And yes, if you read my post you'd know that I want to have a cheaper transport. If it means removing some of things, fine. If they have to leave everything as-is then fine, decrease the cost even by little bit. Don't add half-assed upgrades that won't do anything and leave it so expensive.
EDIT: If it changes anything, I also think that Devilfish could use some price decrease.
I'm fine with Eldar having a cheaper wave serpent, as long as its the ability is stripped accordingly. As it is currently, the WS is priced about right at the 100-115 range. Also, the Devilfish isn't getting a points reduction for a long, long time, so I think my original point stands, the WS is priced right in comparison to other similarly-roled vehicles that have been pointed since 6th edition came out. Yes, both the razorback and devilfish are overly expensive points-wise IMO, but GW seems to (foolishly) think vehicles work the way they are supposed to and doesn't seem too concerned about reducing their cost.
Instead of making the WS cheaper, maybe Eldar just need a metal bawks like the Rhino. Only then, Eldar players will be mad because they now have to field a free First Blood gimme every game.
There is no arguing whether or not the Wave Serpent is overpriced. Did you gloss over the comparison to the night scythe? How about the Valkyrie or Vendetta? Any of those three pounds the Wave Serpent into the ground, at similar points costs. The fact is that the Wave Serpent needs to be cheaper to be competitive. We all have boat loads of them from 5th edition, however, so they're going to stay overpriced and useless.
Macok wrote: I think most Eldar players would love a price decrease on now overcosted transport and not some gimmicks that artificially increase it's price.
I'd much rather have WS for 70 points with SCannon included than than 90 points with (probably around D6 S6 AP4) attack that will never do anything significant.
So I'm curious, what price would you put on a basic WS with shurikancannon (twinlinked)? Currently it is 100 points, carries 12 models, is a AV 1212/10 fast skimmer, has twin linked catapults in addition to the cannon, has the shield that drops all shooting attacks on the front and side armour to S8 and prevents melta.
The most comparable (role-wise) nonEldar vehicle is probably the Razorback. Now, to give it close to the same armament, you would need to upgrade to twin linked assault cannons. That puts it up to 75 points per the DA codex. Now, for 25 points more, you get fast skimmer versus tank, you get twice the transport capacity, +1 AV on the front and sides, AND you get the shield system. All of that is worth more than 25 points IMO, but the Razorback has +1 BS, one extra S6 rending shot, and its small arms have 24" range (but lack the Bladestorm ability), and weapon upgrades are cheaper (its always 75 points, but the WS can go up to 135).
Given the competition, I still say that 100-115 points for a multipurpose, fast (and slightly durable) transport/light tank is a reasonable price. Anything less and you have to start stripping away ability. You want a 50 point WS? In order to have any semblence of external balance you would have to strip away 1 AV, the shield, and the twin linked turret. You get a faster Rhino that carries 12 models instead of 10. 75 points? Strip away the twin linked turret, keep the extra AV and shield. Its still a faster Rhino, but you pay for the extra survivability.
Sure it's reasonably priced. That is why they almost ceased to exist in the game. Because they are "appropriately priced".
They are still 3HP AV10 at back, are hit on 3+ in CC no matter how fast they travel and may disembark troops only after moving 6", And it's BS3. It's waaay too easy to destroy for 100 points.
And as previously mentioned, your comparison to Razorback is not a good one. 100 points is a Night Scythe. Do you think that Wave Serpent at 100 is any shape or form comparable with it? To Ghost Ark with twin scatters?
Last edition, when transports where The Kings, Serpents were ok-ish. You really think that edition that pounded them to the ground should not give them any discount?
And yes, if you read my post you'd know that I want to have a cheaper transport. If it means removing some of things, fine. If they have to leave everything as-is then fine, decrease the cost even by little bit. Don't add half-assed upgrades that won't do anything and leave it so expensive.
EDIT: If it changes anything, I also think that Devilfish could use some price decrease.
I really hate this WAAC attitude players have been developing over the years. They want an auto-win unit that requires no thinking or tactics to win. Sorry, there's nothing wrong with the Wave Serpent. Like everything else in the game, it gets expensive the more goodies you put on it. So, run it bare-bones. Look at Dark Eldar. Talk about paying premiums. They are regarded by most as a bottom tier army (like their Craftworld kin) yet in the right hands they are devastating. Yes both Eldar armies are fragile and you pay for your stuff. Used properly, they are a very tough list.
But, whatever. People want to argue and whine about little toy soldiers...
BTW: The Necron flyer transport is under costed. Not a very good argument to the Wave Serpent. Comparing a flyer to a ground vehicle? Come on now...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Arschbombe wrote: For me the most exciting part of this release is the new decal sheet. It has my craftworld symbol.
Is there a link to the new sheet? I would love to see it, Cheers.
Macok wrote: Sure it's reasonably priced. That is why they almost ceased to exist in the game. Because they are "appropriately priced".
They are still 3HP AV10 at back, are hit on 3+ in CC no matter how fast they travel and may disembark troops only after moving 6", And it's BS3. It's waaay too easy to destroy for 100 points.
And as previously mentioned, your comparison to Razorback is not a good one. 100 points is a Night Scythe. Do you think that Wave Serpent at 100 is any shape or form comparable with it? To Ghost Ark with twin scatters?
Last edition, when transports where The Kings, Serpents were ok-ish. You really think that edition that pounded them to the ground should not give them any discount?
And yes, if you read my post you'd know that I want to have a cheaper transport. If it means removing some of things, fine. If they have to leave everything as-is then fine, decrease the cost even by little bit. Don't add half-assed upgrades that won't do anything and leave it so expensive.
EDIT: If it changes anything, I also think that Devilfish could use some price decrease.
I'm fine with Eldar having a cheaper wave serpent, as long as its the ability is stripped accordingly. As it is currently, the WS is priced about right at the 100-115 range. Also, the Devilfish isn't getting a points reduction for a long, long time, so I think my original point stands, the WS is priced right in comparison to other similarly-roled vehicles that have been pointed since 6th edition came out. Yes, both the razorback and devilfish are overly expensive points-wise IMO, but GW seems to (foolishly) think vehicles work the way they are supposed to and doesn't seem too concerned about reducing their cost.
Instead of making the WS cheaper, maybe Eldar just need a metal bawks like the Rhino. Only then, Eldar players will be mad because they now have to field a free First Blood gimme every game.
There is no arguing whether or not the Wave Serpent is overpriced. Did you gloss over the comparison to the night scythe? How about the Valkyrie or Vendetta? Any of those three pounds the Wave Serpent into the ground, at similar points costs. The fact is that the Wave Serpent needs to be cheaper to be competitive. We all have boat loads of them from 5th edition, however, so they're going to stay overpriced and useless.
You might not be aware of this, but GW NEEDS to sell kits. They don't really care much about balance. It's all about selling the big ticket models. Look at flyers. In general, they are the most expensive kits in an army and people are "encouraged" to run 3 of them. Not including Allies. Bottom line, GW sells models first and worries about rules and balance second. Maybe third or fourth...
Macok wrote: I think most Eldar players would love a price decrease on now overcosted transport and not some gimmicks that artificially increase it's price.
I'd much rather have WS for 70 points with SCannon included than than 90 points with (probably around D6 S6 AP4) attack that will never do anything significant.
So I'm curious, what price would you put on a basic WS with shurikancannon (twinlinked)? Currently it is 100 points, carries 12 models, is a AV 1212/10 fast skimmer, has twin linked catapults in addition to the cannon, has the shield that drops all shooting attacks on the front and side armour to S8 and prevents melta.
The most comparable (role-wise) nonEldar vehicle is probably the Razorback. Now, to give it close to the same armament, you would need to upgrade to twin linked assault cannons. That puts it up to 75 points per the DA codex. Now, for 25 points more, you get fast skimmer versus tank, you get twice the transport capacity, +1 AV on the front and sides, AND you get the shield system. All of that is worth more than 25 points IMO, but the Razorback has +1 BS, one extra S6 rending shot, and its small arms have 24" range (but lack the Bladestorm ability), and weapon upgrades are cheaper (its always 75 points, but the WS can go up to 135).
Given the competition, I still say that 100-115 points for a multipurpose, fast (and slightly durable) transport/light tank is a reasonable price. Anything less and you have to start stripping away ability. You want a 50 point WS? In order to have any semblence of external balance you would have to strip away 1 AV, the shield, and the twin linked turret. You get a faster Rhino that carries 12 models instead of 10. 75 points? Strip away the twin linked turret, keep the extra AV and shield. Its still a faster Rhino, but you pay for the extra survivability.
Sure it's reasonably priced. That is why they almost ceased to exist in the game. Because they are "appropriately priced".
They are still 3HP AV10 at back, are hit on 3+ in CC no matter how fast they travel and may disembark troops only after moving 6", And it's BS3. It's waaay too easy to destroy for 100 points.
And as previously mentioned, your comparison to Razorback is not a good one. 100 points is a Night Scythe. Do you think that Wave Serpent at 100 is any shape or form comparable with it? To Ghost Ark with twin scatters?
Last edition, when transports where The Kings, Serpents were ok-ish. You really think that edition that pounded them to the ground should not give them any discount?
And yes, if you read my post you'd know that I want to have a cheaper transport. If it means removing some of things, fine. If they have to leave everything as-is then fine, decrease the cost even by little bit. Don't add half-assed upgrades that won't do anything and leave it so expensive.
EDIT: If it changes anything, I also think that Devilfish could use some price decrease.
I really hate this WAAC attitude players have been developing over the years. They want an wuto-win unit that requires no thinking or tactics to win. Sorry, there's nothing wrong with the Wave Serpent. Like everything else in the game, it gets expensive the more goodies you put on it. So, run it bare-bones. Look at Dark Eldar. Talk about paying premiums. They are regarded by most as a bottom tier army (like their Craftworld kin) yet in the right hands they are devastating. Yes both Eldar armies are fragile and you pay for your stuff. Used properly, they are a very tough list.
But, whatever. People want to argue and whine about little toy soldiers...
BTW: The Necron flyer transport is under costed. Not a very good argument to the Wave Serpent.
I don't want an autowin. I want to use my Wave Serpents and not be completely handicapped. If this book doesn't make them cheaper, they're all going straight to eBay instead of sitting on the shelf for the next few years. Wave serpents used to be tough before hull points, and before getting hit on a 3+. Basic tactical marines are 1-rounding my serpents in an assault. They were more useful when the boost was in the movement phase. Now that it's broken up, you can't avoid obstacles anymore. They were worth their premium in 5th edition, but they verge on useless, now.
The thing about models being undercosted is that you still have to play against them basically all of the time. That means, unfortunately, you can't just dismiss them for discussions like this.
I really hate this WAAC attitude players have been developing over the years. They want an auto-win unit that requires no thinking or tactics to win. Sorry, there's nothing wrong with the Wave Serpent. Like everything else in the game, it gets expensive the more goodies you put on it. So, run it bare-bones. Look at Dark Eldar. Talk about paying premiums. They are regarded by most as a bottom tier army (like their Craftworld kin) yet in the right hands they are devastating. Yes both Eldar armies are fragile and you pay for your stuff. Used properly, they are a very tough list.
But, whatever. People want to argue and whine about little toy soldiers...
BTW: The Necron flyer transport is under costed. Not a very good argument to the Wave Serpent. Comparing a flyer to a ground vehicle? Come on now...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Arschbombe wrote: For me the most exciting part of this release is the new decal sheet. It has my craftworld symbol.
Is there a link to the new sheet? I would love to see it, Cheers.
Um, I'm pretty sure 100+ is bare bones for a wave serpent. You know since it starts at 90 and has a forced weapon upgrade of 10-45 points. After that it is "extra" and should start to get pricey.
Nocturnus wrote: You might not be aware of this, but GW NEEDS to sell kits. They don't really care much about balance. It's all about selling the big ticket models. Look at flyers. In general, they are the most expensive kits in an army and people are "encouraged" to run 3 of them. Not including Allies. Bottom line, GW sells models first and worries about rules and balance second. Maybe third or fourth...
Of course I'm aware of it. It's obvious that their strategy is to obsolete your thousand dollar investment every year or two. That doesn't mean I have to like it. I love the game, but this is frustrating.
Nocturnus wrote: You might not be aware of this, but GW NEEDS to sell kits. They don't really care much about balance. It's all about selling the big ticket models. Look at flyers. In general, they are the most expensive kits in an army and people are "encouraged" to run 3 of them. Not including Allies. Bottom line, GW sells models first and worries about rules and balance second. Maybe third or fourth...
Of course I'm aware of it. It's obvious that their strategy is to obsolete your thousand dollar investment every year or two. That doesn't mean I have to like it. I love the game, but this is frustrating.
I completely agree! I have been playing since Rogue Trader and it really sucks to see the way the game/company has gone. So, let's wait and see what next Saturday brings (unless some lucky bloke gets a copy/look prior to that). One change that would benefit Wave Serpents would be to make them assault vehicles. At least that would make Banshees and Scorpions viable again. But as was pointed out before, I don't think they'll change it.
Nocturnus wrote: You might not be aware of this, but GW NEEDS to sell kits. They don't really care much about balance. It's all about selling the big ticket models. Look at flyers. In general, they are the most expensive kits in an army and people are "encouraged" to run 3 of them. Not including Allies. Bottom line, GW sells models first and worries about rules and balance second. Maybe third or fourth...
Of course I'm aware of it. It's obvious that their strategy is to obsolete your thousand dollar investment every year or two. That doesn't mean I have to like it. I love the game, but this is frustrating.
I completely agree! I have been playing since Rogue Trader and it really sucks to see the way the game/company has gone. So, let's wait and see what next Saturday brings (unless some lucky bloke gets a copy/look prior to that). One change that would benefit Wave Serpents would be to make them assault vehicles. At least that would make Banshees and Scorpions viable again. But as was pointed out before, I don't think they'll change it.
If that was the only change they made to Wave Serpents, I'd run them again in a heartbeat.
Nocturnus wrote: You might not be aware of this, but GW NEEDS to sell kits. They don't really care much about balance. It's all about selling the big ticket models. Look at flyers. In general, they are the most expensive kits in an army and people are "encouraged" to run 3 of them. Not including Allies. Bottom line, GW sells models first and worries about rules and balance second. Maybe third or fourth...
Of course I'm aware of it. It's obvious that their strategy is to obsolete your thousand dollar investment every year or two. That doesn't mean I have to like it. I love the game, but this is frustrating.
I completely agree! I have been playing since Rogue Trader and it really sucks to see the way the game/company has gone. So, let's wait and see what next Saturday brings (unless some lucky bloke gets a copy/look prior to that). One change that would benefit Wave Serpents would be to make them assault vehicles. At least that would make Banshees and Scorpions viable again. But as was pointed out before, I don't think they'll change it.
If that was the only change they made to Wave Serpents, I'd run them again in a heartbeat.
It's really too bad that something that simple will be overlooked by GW. They would sell more Banshees/Scorpions and people would be happier with the Wave Serpent. On another note, on the Seer Council entry, does anyone know if there is a difference between Warlocks and Farseers? The reason I ask is that I noticed 2W on the statline. Maybe Warlocks have 2 wounds now? Or Farseers have dropped to 2W. I hope not, as that would suck.
For me, the problem with WS price is not in the tank itself (although weapons must have a price drop), but what it carries. I doubt Devilfishes ever transported 150-500 pts. squads (let's be fair, Tau mostly used them because they were mandatory for having enough markerlights in old codex). If you are going with Aspect rush (up to 180 points squad) or make it some sort of IC transport (Yriel, Phoenix Lord, Eldrad), you really want a transport which is either cheap (because you need a lot of dragons and DA's) or Land Raider reliable (it's a fabulous day when transport with seer council crashes and they fail the pinning test).
Nocturnus wrote: I really hate this WAAC attitude players have been developing over the years. They want an auto-win unit that requires no thinking or tactics to win. Sorry, there's nothing wrong with the Wave Serpent. Like everything else in the game, it gets expensive the more goodies you put on it. So, run it bare-bones. Look at Dark Eldar. Talk about paying premiums. They are regarded by most as a bottom tier army (like their Craftworld kin) yet in the right hands they are devastating. Yes both Eldar armies are fragile and you pay for your stuff. Used properly, they are a very tough list.
But, whatever. People want to argue and whine about little toy soldiers...
BTW: The Necron flyer transport is under costed. Not a very good argument to the Wave Serpent. Comparing a flyer to a ground vehicle? Come on now...
So.. I want cheaper transport and I explicitly mentioned if it needs to be nerfed - let them nerf it. And I am called WAAC? Why are you jumping into that territory and "auto-win unit"? Is there really no middle ground? Or are you that restricted and cannot grasp that some units could get better without being over the top?
And thanks for giving us the words of wisdom: "l2p". And sure, seasoned tourney veterans (not me) are all wrong. You, yes, you are right. They are too stupid to grasp the simple fact they suck and there is absolutely nothing wrong with Wave Serpent.
Plus I was calmly showing why WS is not "appropriately priced". But I guess any criticism is waved as whining. Because pigeonholing people is so much better!
And excuse me if I want to discuss toy soldiers on forum created to discuss toy soldiers. Can we go back to discussing car racing and flowers? What else should I not talk about?
BTW: And I know Necron flayer is not a good comparison, just like the overpriced razorback from the person I quoted. Do you see what I did there? You would know that if you read my post and not jump into stupid conclusions.
I want it cheaper and have no problem with being it weaker (already mentioned in two posts) and that is WAAC in your opinion? Really?
Nocturnus wrote: I really hate this WAAC attitude players have been developing over the years. They want an auto-win unit that requires no thinking or tactics to win. Sorry, there's nothing wrong with the Wave Serpent. Like everything else in the game, it gets expensive the more goodies you put on it. So, run it bare-bones. Look at Dark Eldar. Talk about paying premiums. They are regarded by most as a bottom tier army (like their Craftworld kin) yet in the right hands they are devastating. Yes both Eldar armies are fragile and you pay for your stuff. Used properly, they are a very tough list.
But, whatever. People want to argue and whine about little toy soldiers...
BTW: The Necron flyer transport is under costed. Not a very good argument to the Wave Serpent. Comparing a flyer to a ground vehicle? Come on now...
So.. I want cheaper transport and I explicitly mentioned if it needs to be nerfed - let them nerf it. And I am called WAAC? Why are you jumping into that territory and "auto-win unit"? Is there really no middle ground? Or are you that restricted and cannot grasp that some units could get better without being over the top?
And thanks for giving us the words of wisdom: "l2p". And sure, seasoned tourney veterans (not me) are all wrong. You, yes, you are right. They are too stupid to grasp the simple fact they suck and there is absolutely nothing wrong with Wave Serpent.
Plus I was calmly showing why WS is not "appropriately priced". But I guess any criticism is waved as whining. Because pigeonholing people is so much better!
And excuse me if I want to discuss toy soldiers on forum created to discuss toy soldiers. Can we go back to discussing car racing and flowers? What else should I not talk about?
BTW: And I know Necron flayer is not a good comparison, just like the overpriced razorback from the person I quoted. Do you see what I did there? You would know that if you read my post and not jump into stupid conclusions.
I want it cheaper and have no problem with being it weaker (already mentioned in two posts) and that is WAAC in your opinion? Really?
I never said L2P. Also, I wasn't attacking you. I am sorry that you took it that way. I am not trying to start a fight. I was simply making ovservations about the current state of the game. Also, I had to retype what I had originally written but my stupid smart phone (?) decided to efase it all and some of what I wrote was lost in translation.
Nocturnus wrote: I really hate this WAAC attitude players have been developing over the years. They want an auto-win unit that requires no thinking or tactics to win. Sorry, there's nothing wrong with the Wave Serpent. Like everything else in the game, it gets expensive the more goodies you put on it. So, run it bare-bones. Look at Dark Eldar. Talk about paying premiums. They are regarded by most as a bottom tier army (like their Craftworld kin) yet in the right hands they are devastating. Yes both Eldar armies are fragile and you pay for your stuff. Used properly, they are a very tough list.
But, whatever. People want to argue and whine about little toy soldiers...
BTW: The Necron flyer transport is under costed. Not a very good argument to the Wave Serpent. Comparing a flyer to a ground vehicle? Come on now...
So.. I want cheaper transport and I explicitly mentioned if it needs to be nerfed - let them nerf it. And I am called WAAC? Why are you jumping into that territory and "auto-win unit"? Is there really no middle ground? Or are you that restricted and cannot grasp that some units could get better without being over the top?
And thanks for giving us the words of wisdom: "l2p". And sure, seasoned tourney veterans (not me) are all wrong. You, yes, you are right. They are too stupid to grasp the simple fact they suck and there is absolutely nothing wrong with Wave Serpent.
Plus I was calmly showing why WS is not "appropriately priced". But I guess any criticism is waved as whining. Because pigeonholing people is so much better!
And excuse me if I want to discuss toy soldiers on forum created to discuss toy soldiers. Can we go back to discussing car racing and flowers? What else should I not talk about?
BTW: And I know Necron flayer is not a good comparison, just like the overpriced razorback from the person I quoted. Do you see what I did there? You would know that if you read my post and not jump into stupid conclusions.
I want it cheaper and have no problem with being it weaker (already mentioned in two posts) and that is WAAC in your opinion? Really?
On this subject: don't worry, those calling WAAC are simply unable to move on past their current codex and are deathly afraid of change. If anything were to disrupt their current understanding of the codex and they would be forced to go through the same process of adapting, understanding and testing. In 5th a point could be made about the resilience of Eldar vehicles, however with the introduction of Hull Points they took a massive hit to their effectiveness and the same rules don't apply.
What do you think are the odds that Dire Avengers get 3+ armour? Fire Dragons are getting "Heavy Aspect Armour," and they don't look any more "armoured" than Dire Avengers.
On this subject: don't worry, those calling WAAC are simply unable to move on past their current codex and are deathly afraid of change. If anything were to disrupt their current understanding of the codex and they would be forced to go through the same process of adapting, understanding and testing. In 5th a point could be made about the resilience of Eldar vehicles, however with the introduction of Hull Points they took a massive hit to their effectiveness and the same rules don't apply.
I am not afraid of change. I welcome it. I am intrigued to see what Phil Kelly and GW have come up with this time out. I just don't believe the current codex is as craptastic as people make it out to be. Regardless, can't wait until Saturday!
launcelot7891 wrote: What do you think are the odds that Dire Avengers get 3+ armour? Fire Dragons are getting "Heavy Aspect Armour," and they don't look any more "armoured" than Dire Avengers.
I think they have Aspect Armour. Which is a 4+ and works on Howling Banshees, Dire Avengers, and maybe Swooping Hawks. The worse armour being Mesh and is used on Guardians and Rangers. Heavy Aspect Armor is saved for Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders, and Striking Scorpions.
launcelot7891 wrote: What do you think are the odds that Dire Avengers get 3+ armour? Fire Dragons are getting "Heavy Aspect Armour," and they don't look any more "armoured" than Dire Avengers.
I think they have Aspect Armour. Which is a 4+ and works on Howling Banshees, Dire Avengers, and maybe Swooping Hawks. The worse armour being Mesh and is used on Guardians and Rangers. Heavy Aspect Armor is saved for Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders, and Striking Scorpions.
Why do you think they'll change Fire Dragons, but not Dire Avengers? Just curious.
launcelot7891 wrote: What do you think are the odds that Dire Avengers get 3+ armour? Fire Dragons are getting "Heavy Aspect Armour," and they don't look any more "armoured" than Dire Avengers.
I think they have Aspect Armour. Which is a 4+ and works on Howling Banshees, Dire Avengers, and maybe Swooping Hawks. The worse armour being Mesh and is used on Guardians and Rangers. Heavy Aspect Armor is saved for Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders, and Striking Scorpions.
Why do you think they'll change Fire Dragons, but not Dire Avengers? Just curious.
Because there is a preview image of the codex in the Apple Store with the Fire Dragon army list entry. All of them are in Heavy Aspect Armour which confers a 3+ save.
launcelot7891 wrote: What do you think are the odds that Dire Avengers get 3+ armour? Fire Dragons are getting "Heavy Aspect Armour," and they don't look any more "armoured" than Dire Avengers.
I think they have Aspect Armour. Which is a 4+ and works on Howling Banshees, Dire Avengers, and maybe Swooping Hawks. The worse armour being Mesh and is used on Guardians and Rangers. Heavy Aspect Armor is saved for Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders, and Striking Scorpions.
Why do you think they'll change Fire Dragons, but not Dire Avengers? Just curious.
Because there is a preview image of the codex in the Apple Store with the Fire Dragon army list entry. All of them are in Heavy Aspect Armour which confers a 3+ save.
LOL... I meant why do you think they won't change Dire Avengers. I know that Fire Dragons are changing.
launcelot7891 wrote: What do you think are the odds that Dire Avengers get 3+ armour? Fire Dragons are getting "Heavy Aspect Armour," and they don't look any more "armoured" than Dire Avengers.
I think they have Aspect Armour. Which is a 4+ and works on Howling Banshees, Dire Avengers, and maybe Swooping Hawks. The worse armour being Mesh and is used on Guardians and Rangers. Heavy Aspect Armor is saved for Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders, and Striking Scorpions.
Why do you think they'll change Fire Dragons, but not Dire Avengers? Just curious.
Nobody knows what the armour type is yet, but MEQ base troops are probably not what GW is going for with Eldar. I'm curious about the Dire Avenger aspect powers now that Bladestorm has been repurposed as a base weapon rule.
Has anybody heard if the heavy aspect armour negates fleet in this edition?
launcelot7891 wrote: What do you think are the odds that Dire Avengers get 3+ armour? Fire Dragons are getting "Heavy Aspect Armour," and they don't look any more "armoured" than Dire Avengers.
I think they have Aspect Armour. Which is a 4+ and works on Howling Banshees, Dire Avengers, and maybe Swooping Hawks. The worse armour being Mesh and is used on Guardians and Rangers. Heavy Aspect Armor is saved for Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders, and Striking Scorpions.
Why do you think they'll change Fire Dragons, but not Dire Avengers? Just curious.
Nobody knows what the armour type is yet, but MEQ base troops are probably not what GW is going for with Eldar. I'm curious about the Dire Avenger aspect powers now that Bladestorm has been repurposed as a base weapon rule.
Has anybody heard if the heavy aspect armour negates fleet in this edition?
Fire Dragons have both Heavy Aspect Armour and Fleet, so I don't think so.
launcelot7891 wrote: What do you think are the odds that Dire Avengers get 3+ armour? Fire Dragons are getting "Heavy Aspect Armour," and they don't look any more "armoured" than Dire Avengers.
I think they have Aspect Armour. Which is a 4+ and works on Howling Banshees, Dire Avengers, and maybe Swooping Hawks. The worse armour being Mesh and is used on Guardians and Rangers. Heavy Aspect Armor is saved for Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders, and Striking Scorpions.
Why do you think they'll change Fire Dragons, but not Dire Avengers? Just curious.
Because there is a preview image of the codex in the Apple Store with the Fire Dragon army list entry. All of them are in Heavy Aspect Armour which confers a 3+ save.
LOL... I meant why do you think they won't change Dire Avengers. I know that Fire Dragons are changing.
Sorry, I was going off of what was known. Don't like to speculate too much. Dire Avengers armor doesn't look that thick or mirror the heavier armored models (Except for Fire Dragons, but they only recently changed). I figured they will stay as a 4+ unless we want them to get rather expensive.
Fire Dragons used to have 3+. GW seems to be revisiting past editions, which is cool for us nostalgic types. Avengers have always had 4+. I wonder if Hawks will go back to 5+. Looking at some of the sample lists showed aspects without exarchs, so I guess they're still optional.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder what sort of difference Dark Reapers with a 2+ save would make...
They have Slow and Purposeful now which is pretty hot. They've always been my favorite aspect.
Nocturnus wrote: Fire Dragons used to have 3+. GW seems to be revisiting past editions, which is cool for us nostalgic types. Avengers have always had 4+. I wonder if Hawks will go back to 5+. Looking at some of the sample lists showed aspects without exarchs, so I guess they're still optional.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder what sort of difference Dark Reapers with a 2+ save would make...
They have Slow and Purposeful now which is pretty hot. They've always been my favorite aspect.
Ah... I didn't know that about Fire Dragons. I guess that kills my hopes for Dire Avengers then.
Nocturnus wrote: Fire Dragons used to have 3+. GW seems to be revisiting past editions, which is cool for us nostalgic types. Avengers have always had 4+. I wonder if Hawks will go back to 5+. Looking at some of the sample lists showed aspects without exarchs, so I guess they're still optional.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder what sort of difference Dark Reapers with a 2+ save would make...
They have Slow and Purposeful now which is pretty hot. They've always been my favorite aspect.
2+ save with Slow and Purposeful would be so amazing...
Nocturnus wrote: Fire Dragons used to have 3+. GW seems to be revisiting past editions, which is cool for us nostalgic types. Avengers have always had 4+. I wonder if Hawks will go back to 5+. Looking at some of the sample lists showed aspects without exarchs, so I guess they're still optional.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder what sort of difference Dark Reapers with a 2+ save would make...
They have Slow and Purposeful now which is pretty hot. They've always been my favorite aspect.
2+ save with Slow and Purposeful would be so amazing...
Nocturnus wrote: Fire Dragons used to have 3+. GW seems to be revisiting past editions, which is cool for us nostalgic types. Avengers have always had 4+. I wonder if Hawks will go back to 5+. Looking at some of the sample lists showed aspects without exarchs, so I guess they're still optional.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder what sort of difference Dark Reapers with a 2+ save would make...
They have Slow and Purposeful now which is pretty hot. They've always been my favorite aspect.
2+ save with Slow and Purposeful would be so amazing...
QFT!
Yeah, Broadsides with slow and purposeful with their amazing new rail rifles are great! And they got 5 points cheaper! [\bitter]
Dark Reapers have always interested me, but the other options simply outdo them in terms of my Tau/Eldar army. I'm extraordinarily curious what they do with them.
Pershore wrote: Haven't seen this posted in the thread. In the WD battle report a Wave Serpent "fires its serpent shield". It doesn't sound mega powerful - it kills 2 Necron Warriors - but it maybe another nice little capability for the Serpents to have.
Another blast from the past, although I think the Apocalypse Wave Serpent formation can do it too.
In Apoc it did create a wave of force, but only forced pinning checks
Having read the white dwarf battle report and seen the pictures, I'm wondering if apoc is being thrown out and existing apoc models are being rolled into regular 40k.
The wraith knight model just doesn't belong. It is way too big.
Given that the battle report was a 2k point game, you can kind of approximate the point cost of the wraith knight. And the values in coming up with are FAR below what you would expect it to go for.
The only reason I can come up with for that is that it was originally an apoc release.
Hulksmash wrote: I'm excited but I think the book is going to come down to how Warlocks, Farseers, and Runeseers are handled. Either way we'll know in a week
I agree. As an Ulthwe player, this will affect my army greatly. Hopefully Phil does a better job with Eldar than he did with Chaos Marines.
Crimson Hunters are supposed to be ace pilots in their respective fighters (nightwings?). Would seem they would have vector dancer though waiting to see. With the rumored WS5 I am thinking of fielding a squad of crimson hunters myself.
Also has there been any rumors on what might happen to the Autarch?
In the last codex they had a boost to strategy rating (cant remember exactly) and the power is now obsolete. I could see Autarchs having the ability to convey USP's and take them away like Nemesor. Thoughts?
Skerr wrote: Crimson Hunters are supposed to be ace pilots in their respective fighters (nightwings?). Would seem they would have vector dancer though waiting to see. With the rumored WS5 I am thinking of fielding a squad of crimson hunters myself.
Also has there been any rumors on what might happen to the Autarch?
In the last codex they had a boost to strategy rating (cant remember exactly) and the power is now obsolete. I could see Autarchs having the ability to convey USP's and take them away like Nemesor. Thoughts?
Maybe adding an autarch to a unit makes em scoring and not troops.
Let's hope not. A plastic Warhound would be amazing.
That would trample on Forge World too much, and GW doesn't like to do that anymore. It'll more likely be a HoundKnight with variations to make it a WolfKnight, DarkKnight, BloodKnight, HellKnight, and KnightTemplar.
I'm thinking they'll just straight up add Knight Worlds fluff to the next IG Codex and include a Knight Errant with the option to upgrade to a Baron.
It's a bit weird that they invent new stuff for roles that are already filled. Like using Crimson Hunters instead of Eagle pilots. Or even these new planes instead of Phoenixes or Nightwings... or the Wraith Knight instead of simply adding 3" and calling it a revenant titan.
...Am I the only one who thinks "Crimson hunters" sound like a cheap power metal band or -song?
but on a (bit) more serious note, why do they do it like this? They had Nightwings and Phoenixes in Epic as well as the FW-fliers... and even if they redesign the revenant, it's still a revenant! Just patch on a jump pack and we're done!
If we have Wraith lords and Revenants... what role can the Wraith knight possibly fill?
I'm not complaining on the model, I really do like it, but I feel that they slap on ill thought of names and tries to reinvent the wheel here :/
Hulksmash wrote: I'm excited but I think the book is going to come down to how Warlocks, Farseers, and Runeseers are handled. Either way we'll know in a week
Truth...I even made a blog post about this topic. Everything seems to be coming together very well from what we've seen from the rules/previews and it just remains to be seen how the Psyker end of things come together.
If we apply some logic to the white dwarf battle report (Yes I know GW doesn't always do logic), if the wave serpent has some kind of field that it can project to attack enemy units I'm guessing it would have to be pretty close range. Now why would they give it that? Perhaps to help your assault units as they disembark and charge into combat? I feel as if the wave serpent must be an assault vehicle because that energy field just seems like it fits with that. Or perhaps the energy field can be used offensively or defensively. My reasoning for this is if you look at land raiders they have assault frag grenade pods that give charging units some help if they are assaulting into cover. Just my 2 cents and of course I could be way off but I do feel GW will have changed the wave serpent to fit with 6th edition.
JB = Jetbikes I presume. From the GW site, Jetbikes, including the new 3 pack, are listed in the Troops selection for purchase; as the Wraithknight is Heavy Support and the new fliers are in the Fast Attack slot. Wraithguard (the new models) are listed in the Elites category (although rumored the Spiritseer will make them a Troops choice-hopefully not 10 strong only).
GTKA666 wrote: We can probably see a debuff on the JB or no JB at all aside from the Troop and the autarch.
What the heck are JBs? it can't be that hard to write something out full once in your posts can it?
You do realise you're on a forum where a lot of names for units often gets abbreviated as it makes it easier to type. Most here are probably well versed in what they stand for, otherwise you'll just have to ask.
JB in this case is probably Jetbikes as they have been discussed in relation to their psycher-riders in earlier posts.
So what is everyone going to deck their knights with? Most of my armies are CC so I always lack some heavy stuff so I am thinking the lances just to smash some pathetic cowardly vehicles preventing close combat in the face with a beam of ownage.
Autarch Fiallathandirel wrote: If we apply some logic to the white dwarf battle report (Yes I know GW doesn't always do logic), if the wave serpent has some kind of field that it can project to attack enemy units I'm guessing it would have to be pretty close range. Now why would they give it that? Perhaps to help your assault units as they disembark and charge into combat? I feel as if the wave serpent must be an assault vehicle because that energy field just seems like it fits with that. Or perhaps the energy field can be used offensively or defensively. My reasoning for this is if you look at land raiders they have assault frag grenade pods that give charging units some help if they are assaulting into cover. Just my 2 cents and of course I could be way off but I do feel GW will have changed the wave serpent to fit with 6th edition.
The energy field has been around since Wave Serpents were first introduced back in the Renegades supplement for Space Marine (Epic). You had to make your own template that it shot and let me tell you, certain players made their templates a little bit bigger. As for being an assault vehicle *crosses fingers*
unmercifulconker wrote: So what is everyone going to deck their knights with? Most of my armies are CC so I always lack some heavy stuff so I am thinking the lances just to smash some pathetic cowardly vehicles preventing close combat in the face with a beam of ownage.
unmercifulconker wrote: So what is everyone going to deck their knights with? Most of my armies are CC so I always lack some heavy stuff so I am thinking the lances just to smash some pathetic cowardly vehicles preventing close combat in the face with a beam of ownage.
Magnets, all weapon options are then able to be used.
lol, beat to it, took to long trying to type that up between customers.
unmercifulconker wrote: So what is everyone going to deck their knights with? Most of my armies are CC so I always lack some heavy stuff so I am thinking the lances just to smash some pathetic cowardly vehicles preventing close combat in the face with a beam of ownage.
Magnets..and then try everything!
^This^
Most definitely. I'm not paying an arm and a leg just to be stuck with one choice of weapons!
But what I look forward to field is ranged anti-tank There's been a lot of talk about the multiple S6 blasts, but I have no real idea of what it'll have against vehicles. Hopefully some kind of pimped lance
H.B.M.C. wrote: Have Crimson Hunters existed in the fluff before now?
The Eldar novel Shadow Point by Gordon Rennie (2003) also featured Aspect pilots. Don't recall the name now, but wasn't Crimson Hunter IIRC.
My less than stellar memory lists "Star Eagles" as the name for Aspect pilots, but I don't know where I got that from. Could just be some fanwank I've read.
Star Eagles are in the BFG background as Aspect Warriors of space fighters.
From what little we know, it appears that Crimson Hunters may be Aspect Warriors of atmospheric fighters. Like the Imperium's Thunderbolts, these may have some limited space capability (mainly to and from their carrier) but they are really meant to fight in atmosphere.
unmercifulconker wrote: So what is everyone going to deck their knights with? Most of my armies are CC so I always lack some heavy stuff so I am thinking the lances just to smash some pathetic cowardly vehicles preventing close combat in the face with a beam of ownage.
I'm not going to field one because it's a stupid, stupid model and I don't want to encourage GW to stick to their current "lets shoehorn a huge model into every army" shtick.
Seriously, the concept is awful. It's just a blown up Wraithlord.
unmercifulconker wrote: Hmmm I have never worked with magnets before, what size would the knight take?
It is really going to depend on the size of the mounting points. I tend to use 1/8 or 1/16" round ones. If it's okay for that particular part to swivel then only 1 is needed. If you need it to stay in a very particular position then use 2.
For example, it's pretty common for GW to only include a single housing but have multiple weapons. Looking at the pictures, it appears that the mount point is a vambrace piece that fits on top of the arm, so a single 1/8" should be good. It also looks like there are at least 3 different hand options, so you might magnetize the right hand as well (it's holding the sword). You'll have to see exactly how big the mount point is and get the largest you can as the sword is going to be fairly heavy.
unmercifulconker wrote: Hmmm I have never worked with magnets before, what size would the knight take?
It is really going to depend on the size of the mounting points. I tend to use 1/8 or 1/16" round ones. If it's okay for that particular part to swivel then only 1 is needed. If you need it to stay in a very particular position then use 2.
For example, it's pretty common for GW to only include a single housing but have multiple weapons. Looking at the pictures, it appears that the mount point is a vambrace piece that fits on top of the arm, so a single 1/8" should be good. It also looks like there are at least 3 different hand options, so you might magnetize the right hand as well (it's holding the sword). You'll have to see exactly how big the mount point is and get the largest you can as the sword is going to be fairly heavy.
Ah sweet thanks very much.
Sorry for the OT question, I will retreat back to the shadows of this thread.
I don't much like the new model, but I like the concept. I may try to make mine look more like this;
I'll get rid of the loin cloth and hip pads, smooth out the upper leg, replace the arm with a gun instead of just having it attached via a vambrace, try to do something to shrink the huge chest area, and maybe play around with the head. It won't be an exact replica of the Knight Titan, but will be inspired by it.
Judging from the sprues, the Wraithknight comes with 4 arms (2 bend, 2 straight) and 5 hands (2 opened, 2 fists, 1 holding the sword), so it might be possible to magnetize the model so you can swap out the entire arm including the weapon its holding.
Depends on what other parts you might need for the arms and if you can fit a large enough magnet in the shoulder joint. Add another magnet to one of the weapon housings so you can swap one of the Wraithlances to a Suncannon and you've got all the options to swap out.
Theorius wrote: I really dont know why people complain on the size of the wraith knight....
I mean warhammer FANTASY has had models that big or close to for years and its bloody fantasy....
In the grimdark 40k where we have titans and mammoth space ships bigger combat mechs/tanks should not be weird or out of place...
but that is my 2 cents.
I don't think that models that big would ever show up in a normal game of fantasy.
The biggest models I know of are the dragons, and I'm sure that there isn't a 9" tall one.
Iranna.
Well, did anyone see the size of the "fortress of redemption"?
Its a regular 40k model, and wont cost you more points than a landraider, but I think it will be by far the biggest single piece to field in a regular game for a while yet.
(We need wraith knights to take it out! They are demanded by gamebalance!
There is nothing right with any of the GW vehicles.
The design concept of putting everything into a different perspective is wrong. As any scientist can tell you it all depends on the relative environment. AND 40k is a single environment where all armies compete for the same resources, players money and wins. So it is wrong to evaluate a vehicle in its own codex, you need to do the evaluation against all the others things out there.
Yes, all the vehicles fill different niches but if those are similar enough you can and should compare. BUT come to your own conclusion.
The Perfect solution for me would be the VDRs. Update them and then make every vehicle design following those rules. => Fairly build and costed vehicles across the board.
IMO the Serpent is way to expensive in the "old" codex but I withhold judgement until I have seen the new board
murgel wrote: There is nothing right with any of the GW vehicles.
The design concept of putting everything into a different perspective is wrong. As any scientist can tell you it all depends on the relative environment. AND 40k is a single environment where all armies compete for the same resources, players money and wins. So it is wrong to evaluate a vehicle in its own codex, you need to do the evaluation against all the others things out there.
Yes, all the vehicles fill different niches but if those are similar enough you can and should compare. BUT come to your own conclusion.
The Perfect solution for me would be the VDRs. Update them and then make every vehicle design following those rules. => Fairly build and costed vehicles across the board.
IMO the Serpent is way to expensive in the "old" codex but I withhold judgement until I have seen the new board
I agree with the above. It's just been GW's fall back excuse on their sloppy point costs, to avoid admitting they screwed up because they don't have any real systematic way other than "designer gut feel".
I'm reminded of Gav Thorpe's flawed reasoning for the 3rd edition Codex's flaws: That somehow if they made good units and bad units, people would take a mix and end up with an average performance army. Instead people loaded up on the good (like star cannons) and never fielded the bad. How this flawed line of reasoning was even considered let alone be accepted speaks volumes about GW's design process.
The Dwarf Wolf wrote: I dont want to sound GW hater here, but this launch was silly... And the preorder e-mail, stupid.
This way, next ork codex will come with "Da Supa Boss", a boss with the size of a riptide... Or, a mini stompa...
Yes, it will be really interresting to see if the Stompa and Baneblade/Stormlord is to e included in regular armies as following the "big trend".
The BRB modeling section dont have a problem with displaying GWsapoc kits.
Edit: Or the orks just get the ability to make a "looted giant monstrous creature machine".
I can see the riptide sporting an ork head and a giant furnace engine on the back.
I was disappointed by a few things myself, particularly the fact that the stupid Jetbikes did NOT get re-done. My good buddy just started collecting Eldar last year, and I've been telling him to hold off on bikes because the new ones would surely be way cooler!
Too bad.
But I like to look at the models, first and foremost, from an aesthetic perspective. And although GW didn't re-do any aspects, the stuff they did create is beautiful.
Wraithknight - Gorgeous model. I understand its weird place in limbo between a revenant titan and a wraithlord, but hopefully the Codex will neatly piece it into the fluff. If it doesn't, THEN the haters can start talking. But from a hobbyist who loves painting more than playing, I am beyond excited.
Wraithguard - Again, another shining example of GW and their multi-part plastics. And cheaper, technically, than wraithguard used to be!($)
Crimson Hunter - This model's silhouette is so elegant and unique, it made me forget my usual bias against flyers. Im not the hugest proponent of flyers in 6th, but I am getting more comfortable with the meta all the time. And again, the miniature itself is awesome!!
The characters are all brilliant too, and like most models will look 10x better in person. (finecast notwithstanding)
Overall, just because a release doesn't meet people's lofty expectations (including mine), doesn't mean it can't be appreciated for what it is: an excellent, long-anticipated upgrade for Eldar players everywhere.
Speaking of the wraith knight (this has probably been pointed out already), but it really looks like he is wearing sandals.
And once you seen the sandals, his legs start looking like bellbottom jeans in a way. You just have to paint it right and you get a giant angry hippie!
But seriously, I really agree with Urukguy27 right above. Well said!
Autarch Fiallathandirel wrote: If we apply some logic to the white dwarf battle report (Yes I know GW doesn't always do logic), if the wave serpent has some kind of field that it can project to attack enemy units I'm guessing it would have to be pretty close range. Now why would they give it that? Perhaps to help your assault units as they disembark and charge into combat? I feel as if the wave serpent must be an assault vehicle because that energy field just seems like it fits with that. Or perhaps the energy field can be used offensively or defensively. My reasoning for this is if you look at land raiders they have assault frag grenade pods that give charging units some help if they are assaulting into cover. Just my 2 cents and of course I could be way off but I do feel GW will have changed the wave serpent to fit with 6th edition.
Huh... I hadn't thought of that, but it makes a lot of sense. If that was how they fixed the assault transport issue, I would be fine with it.
The Dwarf Wolf wrote: I dont want to sound GW hater here, but this launch was silly... And the preorder e-mail, stupid.
This way, next ork codex will come with "Da Supa Boss", a boss with the size of a riptide... Or, a mini stompa...
Yes, it will be really interresting to see if the Stompa and Baneblade/Stormlord is to e included in regular armies as following the "big trend".
The BRB modeling section dont have a problem with displaying GWsapoc kits.
Edit: Or the orks just get the ability to make a "looted giant monstrous creature machine".
I can see the riptide sporting an ork head and a giant furnace engine on the back.
you might have a point IF the WraithKnight was a superheavy, buuut its not. its not gonna have D class weapons its not gonna have 4 LC sponsons with 4 HB and an AC and a superweapon.... its just a regular 40k model thats TALL......
i wish people would stop comparing Size to Power.... 2 very different things here people... so time to stop comparing it to APOC only units
What do you guys think of the base on the plastic farseer and the new ranger special character? Something bugs me about "terrain" moving with a model.... Think it would be tough to move them to normal bases?
gravitywell wrote: What do you guys think of the base on the plastic farseer and the new ranger special character? Something bugs me about "terrain" moving with a model.... Think it would be tough to move them to normal bases?
The Farseer one is pretty low-key . The Ranger's base is a bit more, but it's not all that different from scenic bases that lots of people use in their armies for centerpiece models. Some folks like it, others don't; the Farseer should be easy enough to mount on a standard base if you don't like it. The Assassin might take a little more work, but not all that much; Finecast is really bad for casting quality, but it IS pretty easy to work with.
finnan wrote: ... didn't the Wave Serpent originally have a sort of force wave? Maybe they're giving it back.
It did originally in Epic. It was a standing wave thing that was impenetrable to all direct shots from the front (though artillery weapons could lob stuff over). It could also be fired as a weak weapon whose main effect was paralyzing units they hit, though this left the Serpent without a wave until the next turn.
This was sort of replicated in the Apocalypse formation where the Serpents can merge their waves together. The Apocalypse rules allowed merged fields to be slightly more effective (reduction to S 7 instead of 8), and could be fired as a weak weapon.
Overall though I never really found the weapon anything to write home about, and I doubt they would allow anything like it to paralyze whole units in 40K.
Fayric wrote: Speaking of the wraith knight (this has probably been pointed out already), but it really looks like he is wearing sandals.
And once you seen the sandals, his legs start looking like bellbottom jeans in a way. You just have to paint it right and you get a giant angry hippie!
This also caught my eye. If/when I get a WKnight I'll certainly be filing the "soles" off his sandals so that the "cloven hooves" make contact with the ground!
finnan wrote: ... didn't the Wave Serpent originally have a sort of force wave? Maybe they're giving it back.
The Apocalypse rules allowed merged fields to be slightly more effective (reduction to S 7 instead of 8), and could be fired as a weak weapon.
Overall though I never really found the weapon anything to write home about, and I doubt they would allow anything like it to paralyze whole units in 40K.
What do you guys think of the base on the plastic farseer and the new ranger special character? Something bugs me about "terrain" moving with a model.... Think it would be tough to move them to normal bases?
That's an odd criticism. "Normal" finished bases have terrain on them, even if it's just mud, stone, reeds, swamp, grass or some combination of the those things and when the model is moved the terrain moves with it. I guess some people don't like or possibly even don't understand scenic basing.
Good to see Jes was very involved. Hopefully he had some input into the fluff. Also hope there's some new artwork from him in the codex. I've always loved his drawings.
Wraithblades: Axe and shield or swords? Or one unit of each?
Wraithknight: All guns or sword version? Or one of each?
Wait till we know what they do?
That thinking is not how things are done in IoM, it may even be a little heretical.
Both Hunter and Fighter.
Wraithblades: swords, they look so much cooler.
Wraithknight: double shooty. Put his fat ass on skyshield with unit of War Walkers and profit.
unmercifulconker wrote: So what is everyone going to deck their knights with? Most of my armies are CC so I always lack some heavy stuff so I am thinking the lances just to smash some pathetic cowardly vehicles preventing close combat in the face with a beam of ownage.
I'm not going to field one because it's a stupid, stupid model and I don't want to encourage GW to stick to their current "lets shoehorn a huge model into every army" shtick.
Seriously, the concept is awful. It's just a blown up Wraithlord.
You do realize that not every new army has a giant model right? Neither Dark Angels nor Chaos Space Marines got one. They just got fliers like everyone else.
Wraithblades: Axe and shield or swords? Or one unit of each?
Wraithknight: All guns or sword version? Or one of each?
Wait till we know what they do?
That thinking is not how things are done in IoM, it may even be a little heretical.
Both Hunter and Fighter.
Wraithblades: swords, they look so much cooler.
Wraithknight: double shooty. Put his fat ass on skyshield with unit of War Walkers and profit.
What's the difference between the Hunter and the Fighter?
unmercifulconker wrote: So what is everyone going to deck their knights with? Most of my armies are CC so I always lack some heavy stuff so I am thinking the lances just to smash some pathetic cowardly vehicles preventing close combat in the face with a beam of ownage.
I'm not going to field one because it's a stupid, stupid model and I don't want to encourage GW to stick to their current "lets shoehorn a huge model into every army" shtick.
Seriously, the concept is awful. It's just a blown up Wraithlord.
You do realize that not every new army has a giant model right? Neither Dark Angels nor Chaos Space Marines got one. They just got fliers like everyone else.
CSM have the Defiler, Forgefiends, the Heldrake, and while technically Forgeworld, the Decimator. Dark Angels got that giant speeder thing, as well as the flyers, and a skittles bag worth of flavours of terminator.
Plus, on the 'blown up wraithlord' thing, it's more a scaled down Revenant / Phantom Titan aesthetically, and functionally.
What do you guys think of the base on the plastic farseer and the new ranger special character? Something bugs me about "terrain" moving with a model.... Think it would be tough to move them to normal bases?
That's an odd criticism. "Normal" finished bases have terrain on them, even if it's just mud, stone, reeds, swamp, grass or some combination of the those things and when the model is moved the terrain moves with it. I guess some people don't like or possibly even don't understand scenic basing.
I think you're misinterpreting.... Scenic dioramas or centre piece models make sense.... But for the average game model some people might prefer something generic... Mud, snow, grass, etc. It seems odd to have something distinct moving around the field. Plus I'd rather decide what my model is on than have it shipped with something odd looking ( Like what is that ranger doing? Surfing around the field on some eldar rune thing?)
unmercifulconker wrote: So what is everyone going to deck their knights with? Most of my armies are CC so I always lack some heavy stuff so I am thinking the lances just to smash some pathetic cowardly vehicles preventing close combat in the face with a beam of ownage.
I'm not going to field one because it's a stupid, stupid model and I don't want to encourage GW to stick to their current "lets shoehorn a huge model into every army" shtick.
Seriously, the concept is awful. It's just a blown up Wraithlord.
You do realize that not every new army has a giant model right? Neither Dark Angels nor Chaos Space Marines got one. They just got fliers like everyone else.
CSM have the Defiler, Forgefiends, the Heldrake, and while technically Forgeworld, the Decimator.
Dark Angels got that giant speeder thing, as well as the flyers, and a skittles bag worth of flavours of terminator.
Plus, on the 'blown up wraithlord' thing, it's more a scaled down Revenant / Phantom Titan aesthetically, and functionally.
Space Marines have the contemptor dreads, stormravens, orks had the stompa, dark eldar had the talon GW have been doing big models for a while.
unmercifulconker wrote: So what is everyone going to deck their knights with? Most of my armies are CC so I always lack some heavy stuff so I am thinking the lances just to smash some pathetic cowardly vehicles preventing close combat in the face with a beam of ownage.
I'm not going to field one because it's a stupid, stupid model and I don't want to encourage GW to stick to their current "lets shoehorn a huge model into every army" shtick.
Seriously, the concept is awful. It's just a blown up Wraithlord.
You do realize that not every new army has a giant model right? Neither Dark Angels nor Chaos Space Marines got one. They just got fliers like everyone else.
Dark Angels got that god awful giant landspeeder and chaos got the daemon engines and the Heldrake which I consider a largish model.
KaiyaA wrote: What's the difference between the Hunter and the Fighter?
The Fighter is a bomber and the Hunter is a fighter.
But can you make them both from the same box?
It's meant to be either or. You can build a Fighter bomber or the Hunter fighter. But if you're good with magnets, you can make a HunterFighter fighter-bomber or switch between the Hunter fighter and the Fighter bomber.
KaiyaA wrote: What's the difference between the Hunter and the Fighter?
The Fighter is a bomber and the Hunter is a fighter.
But can you make them both from the same box?
It's meant to be either or. You can build a Fighter bomber or the Hunter fighter. But if you're good with magnets, you can make a HunterFighter fighter-bomber or switch between the Hunter fighter and the Fighter bomber.
What do you guys think of the base on the plastic farseer and the new ranger special character? Something bugs me about "terrain" moving with a model.... Think it would be tough to move them to normal bases?
That's an odd criticism. "Normal" finished bases have terrain on them, even if it's just mud, stone, reeds, swamp, grass or some combination of the those things and when the model is moved the terrain moves with it. I guess some people don't like or possibly even don't understand scenic basing.
I think you're misinterpreting.... Scenic dioramas or centre piece models make sense.... But for the average game model some people might prefer something generic... Mud, snow, grass, etc. It seems odd to have something distinct moving around the field. Plus I'd rather decide what my model is on than have it shipped with something odd looking ( Like what is that ranger doing? Surfing around the field on some eldar rune thing?)
I am sympathetic to this complaint, but you are making it about 10 years too late. Check out the older eldar exarchs.
Let's remember that the reason the single-frame plastic characters come with a base is so they don't have to be packaged with a separate regular base. Sure, they could make them flat I 'spose, but that'd be boring.
I'm really hoping the Crimson Bomber is as advertised. This may be the first time I use the bomber version of the new bombers. I like the armament and -ld modifiers. Seems like a solid option.
But we'll see in a week when things are "real" and not "guess".
I wish they made the bomber more of a strike bomber, they already failed with one synergy inducing bomber in the DA Codex. I don't have high hopes for this bomber to be more versatile than a pulse laser and two lances..
Unless they properly cost these synergy units better, they won't get much use.
unmercifulconker wrote: So what is everyone going to deck their knights with? Most of my armies are CC so I always lack some heavy stuff so I am thinking the lances just to smash some pathetic cowardly vehicles preventing close combat in the face with a beam of ownage.
I'm not going to field one because it's a stupid, stupid model and I don't want to encourage GW to stick to their current "lets shoehorn a huge model into every army" shtick.
Seriously, the concept is awful. It's just a blown up Wraithlord.
You do realize that not every new army has a giant model right? Neither Dark Angels nor Chaos Space Marines got one. They just got fliers like everyone else.
Dark Angels got that god awful giant landspeeder and chaos got the daemon engines and the Heldrake which I consider a largish model.
QFT. I remember when I saw the Forgefiend/Maulerfiend in White Dwarf... I thought they were massive. It seems there is a sequential approach to making bigger and bigger models.
Maulerfiend? Riptide tops that. Riptide? Wraithknight tops that. Wraithknight? ... ... ...
Uriels_Flame wrote: I'm really hoping the Crimson Bomber is as advertised. This may be the first time I use the bomber version of the new bombers. I like the armament and -ld modifiers. Seems like a solid option.
But we'll see in a week when things are "real" and not "guess".
Technically rules should start poping up Wednesday as that is the day in arrives in stores in North America, provided memorial day didn't bugger it.
Farseer Faenyin wrote: I wish they made the bomber more of a strike bomber, they already failed with one synergy inducing bomber in the DA Codex. I don't have high hopes for this bomber to be more versatile than a pulse laser and two lances..
Unless they properly cost these synergy units better, they won't get much use.
If your looking for versatile, then your looking at the wrong codex. Every units really only does one thing exceptionally well. Though 2 BL and pulse laser= anti tank and anti flyer. Which means it is pretty versatile...If you want anti horde there are PLENTY of other units that will do it for you and can be on the field turn one.
Fayric wrote: Speaking of the wraith knight (this has probably been pointed out already), but it really looks like he is wearing sandals.
And once you seen the sandals, his legs start looking like bellbottom jeans in a way. You just have to paint it right and you get a giant angry hippie!
This also caught my eye. If/when I get a WKnight I'll certainly be filing the "soles" off his sandals so that the "cloven hooves" make contact with the ground!
That aside... a lovely model.
You know that is the same for all the wraith units, right?
unmercifulconker wrote: So what is everyone going to deck their knights with? Most of my armies are CC so I always lack some heavy stuff so I am thinking the lances just to smash some pathetic cowardly vehicles preventing close combat in the face with a beam of ownage.
I'm not going to field one because it's a stupid, stupid model and I don't want to encourage GW to stick to their current "lets shoehorn a huge model into every army" shtick.
Seriously, the concept is awful. It's just a blown up Wraithlord.
You do realize that not every new army has a giant model right? Neither Dark Angels nor Chaos Space Marines got one. They just got fliers like everyone else.
CSM have the Defiler, Forgefiends, the Heldrake, and while technically Forgeworld, the Decimator.
Dark Angels got that giant speeder thing, as well as the flyers, and a skittles bag worth of flavours of terminator.
Plus, on the 'blown up wraithlord' thing, it's more a scaled down Revenant / Phantom Titan aesthetically, and functionally.
Space Marines have the contemptor dreads, stormravens, orks had the stompa, dark eldar had the talon GW have been doing big models for a while.
Fliers don't count for this discussion since all fliers are larger and everyone got one. The WK is a large non-flier and not everyone has one of those.
Wish Jes Goodwin would just release his concept sketches in an art book. If he's concerned about other people ripping them off, why not release the ones for already existing releases like the Aspect Warriors?
Iracundus wrote: Wish Jes Goodwin would just release his concept sketches in an art book. If he's concerned about other people ripping them off, why not release the ones for already existing releases like the Aspect Warriors?
They did just that back in 2001, with The Gothic and the Eldritch: The Collected Sketches of Jes Goodwin. Nice book, covers a LOT of GW territory.
Iracundus wrote: Wish Jes Goodwin would just release his concept sketches in an art book. If he's concerned about other people ripping them off, why not release the ones for already existing releases like the Aspect Warriors?
They did just that back in 2001, with The Gothic and the Eldritch: The Collected Sketches of Jes Goodwin. Nice book, covers a LOT of GW territory.
I know and have that. But since then there have been a lot more sketches. The last Eldar Codex saw a bunch of Dire Avenger, Banshee, and Scorpion sketches shown. We also have colored in versions of them in the BRB such as the Fire Dragon.
Iracundus wrote: Wish Jes Goodwin would just release his concept sketches in an art book. If he's concerned about other people ripping them off, why not release the ones for already existing releases like the Aspect Warriors?
They did just that back in 2001, with The Gothic and the Eldritch: The Collected Sketches of Jes Goodwin. Nice book, covers a LOT of GW territory.
I know and have that. But since then there have been a lot more sketches. The last Eldar Codex saw a bunch of Dire Avenger, Banshee, and Scorpion sketches shown. We also have colored in versions of them in the BRB such as the Fire Dragon.
I'd love to see some of the newer stuff too. I get the feeling that the man has enough sketches to fill thousands of pages, though, so I'd feel bad for the guy who has to decide what would go into a volume 2 and what would get left out. Those would be some hard decisions.
That being said, I'd gladly volunteer to take the job, if it meant I could comb through his sketchbooks.
Iracundus wrote: Wish Jes Goodwin would just release his concept sketches in an art book. If he's concerned about other people ripping them off, why not release the ones for already existing releases like the Aspect Warriors?
They did just that back in 2001, with The Gothic and the Eldritch: The Collected Sketches of Jes Goodwin. Nice book, covers a LOT of GW territory.
I know and have that. But since then there have been a lot more sketches. The last Eldar Codex saw a bunch of Dire Avenger, Banshee, and Scorpion sketches shown. We also have colored in versions of them in the BRB such as the Fire Dragon.
I'd love to see some of the newer stuff too. I get the feeling that the man has enough sketches to fill thousands of pages, though, so I'd feel bad for the guy who has to decide what would go into a volume 2 and what would get left out. Those would be some hard decisions.
That being said, I'd gladly volunteer to take the job, if it meant I could comb through his sketchbooks.
There were online sketches with the release of the Dark Eldar Codex. I find the notes as interesting as the actual sketch since it shows some of the thought process at the time, such as the thematic decision to stick to straight edged blades for the Dire Avenger Exarch and keep curved blades for the Banshees.
There were online sketches with the release of the Dark Eldar Codex. I find the notes as interesting as the actual sketch since it shows some of the thought process at the time, such as the thematic decision to stick to straight edged blades for the Dire Avenger Exarch and keep curved blades for the Banshees.
I find that the notes on the page for Wraithguard, in The Gothic and the Eldritch, are quite interesting in light of what we know about the new kit.
BrassScorpion wrote: Poll:
Crimson Hunter or Wraithfighter? Or both?
Wraithblades: Axe and shield or swords? Or one unit of each?
Wraithknight: All guns or sword version? Or one of each?
One of each for the Knight and Blades. Haven't looked over the flyer yet. I'll stick with my metal Wraithguard, though.
BrassScorpion wrote: Poll:
Crimson Hunter or Wraithfighter? Or both?
Wraithblades: Axe and shield or swords? Or one unit of each?
Wraithknight: All guns or sword version? Or one of each?
One of each for the Knight and Blades. Haven't looked over the flyer yet. I'll stick with my metal Wraithguard, though.
1 of each + an extra of 1 (depending on rules)
1+ unit of each (blades)
1+ unit of scythes/cannons each (guard)
1 of each - sword, lances, suncannon for the knight
Done my pre-order.
Codex
Psychic Cards
Spiritseer
Wraithknight x 2 - Depends on how good the shield is before I decided what I will equip them with.
Later I plan to get 10 Wraithblades (Looking at the axes - If I can have Fuegan lead them, that'll look awesome.)
1 of each plane. If they are good - my FA being almost full and my HS being the most overcrowded slot in history.
PredaKhaine wrote: Done my pre-order.
Codex
Psychic Cards
Spiritseer
Wraithknight x 2 - Depends on how good the shield is before I decided what I will equip them with.
Later I plan to get 10 Wraithblades (Looking at the axes - If I can have Fuegan lead them, that'll look awesome.)
1 of each plane. If they are good - my FA being almost full and my HS being the most overcrowded slot in history.
So I can keep track of what I get easier in a game.
I'm quite liable to forget warlord traits or gifts of mutation with my chaos - anything that means I can remember what psychic powers I roll in a game can only be good
They're not necessary, as the powers will also be listed in the codex. They are just handy quick references; especially when you start mixing up different Psychic Disciplines, I find it useful to have all the cards together instead of having to look them up in different books.
Redemption wrote: They're not necessary, as the powers will also be listed in the codex. They are just handy quick references; especially when you start mixing up different Psychic Disciplines, I find it useful to have all the cards together instead of having to look them up in different books.
Oh ok. I doubt my tiny budget cold handle even such a cheap luxury.
Well you could always create your own by photocopying your codex/rulebook. These just have some extra artwork and if you have the original psychic cards, a convenient container.
Farseer Faenyin wrote: I wish they made the bomber more of a strike bomber, they already failed with one synergy inducing bomber in the DA Codex. I don't have high hopes for this bomber to be more versatile than a pulse laser and two lances..
Unless they properly cost these synergy units better, they won't get much use.
If your looking for versatile, then your looking at the wrong codex. Every units really only does one thing exceptionally well. Though 2 BL and pulse laser= anti tank and anti flyer. Which means it is pretty versatile...If you want anti horde there are PLENTY of other units that will do it for you and can be on the field turn one.
Meh, stupid me. I didn't mean I wanted the bomber to be more versatile, meant I wanted it to be a better ground attack craft than the fighter without relying on the rest of the army to do the killing after it provides modifiers via bombs.
The fighter already seems like it will be amazingly versatile with Brightlances, as they are not point savy against other flyers but amazing in a ground strike role.
Automatically Appended Next Post: From the current convo. With how prevalent it appears psykers will be on the tabletop for Eldar, I imagine one set of psykee cards woildnt be enough anyway. So I will probably have to photocopy the cards anyhow.
Well looking at the history of bombers from 6th ed. we will be disapointed. I too would like to see the bomber kick some tail, but it being FA doesn't really make me feel confident.
EDIT: there was two posts so I deleted 1 and now the others gone. I'm not retyping it though, It wasn't a great post.
But I call bulldust on White Dwarfs method for painting Iyanden.
I have yet to find a GW painting guide where the results come out even similar. It's always been that way. I remember the first Space Marine painting guide from like 20 years ago. It said to basecoat Blood Angels with Terracotta ....
You can whine all you want about the price, but the fact is they sell.
GW would be bad at business if they didn't make these.
Yeah, complaining about limited edition prices is silly. That is one product you will absolutely never need to buy, so what it costs is utterly meaningless. If they can generate profits this way, that's great; there's less pressure for them to raise the price of the stuff I actually want to buy.
Typically speaking, the Limited Edition books have been made of superior paper quality, the outer edges lined, bookmark ribbon and nicer casing. Or at least that's what I got with the Ltd 6th and 5th Edition Rulebooks.
I've pre-ordered the Eldar Ltd Ed simply due to the sheer amount I have, so its more of a collectors thing for me. If it weren't for that fact, i'd probably only go for the regular or iPad edition (its $20 cheaper).
Do I have more money than sense? Probably, but this army has been growing since 1996, so I feel slightly justified - even though both Ltd Ed Rulebooks were priced less than the Codex :(
PredaKhaine wrote: It is definitely just an extra £30 for a dust jacket isn't it?
You can whine all you want about the price, but the fact is they sell.
GW would be bad at business if they didn't make these.
@ whining
Swing and a miss.
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on anything. I briefly wondered if there was something else (as in extra content) other than a dust jacket and bookmark. If there was, I'd now be up-ordering. GW have already got about £200 of my cash on pre-orders so why would I whine about spending another £30?
EDIT: there was two posts so I deleted 1 and now the others gone. I'm not retyping it though, It wasn't a great post.
But I call bulldust on White Dwarfs method for painting Iyanden.
I have yet to find a GW painting guide where the results come out even similar. It's always been that way. I remember the first Space Marine painting guide from like 20 years ago. It said to basecoat Blood Angels with Terracotta ....
There was once a heavy metal master class for the free Bilbo model that was actually pretty spot on.
Compel wrote: I thought they usually had completely different covering art as well?
Or is that just the dust jacket? It definitely is a different kettle of fish to the very good quality collectors rulebooks.
The Chaos Daemon one (that I have, I admit, burn me at the stake) has a different cover made of a little more sturdy material. Not sure if it's bound different.
I would prefer if they printed them on the same paper as the LE 6th ed. rulebook though.
Compel wrote: I thought they usually had completely different covering art as well?
Or is that just the dust jacket? It definitely is a different kettle of fish to the very good quality collectors rulebooks.
Looks like they got lazy with this release, the Tau got different cover art, this time with the Eldar they just removed the text and left it looking pretty as originally painted by the artist.
I have a gut feeling i'm going to be disappointed, but I kinda had to roll the dice on this one. Honestly, I spent less having 150 custom dice, two specially made felt/crushed satin dice pouches with embroidered Avatar logo and other such things made combined.
The kicker of this release, I had a custom sculpt of a Ranger Autarch made... only for GW to release that VERY idea a month later... so much for the centerpiece. Back to the drawing board on what I can do for a customised centerpiece.
Well since they have hosed my Elysians(too much FW stuff will have to sit on a shelf in order to make an legal army now and use my stuff) I might be switching over to what I have always wanted to do and have a Spider themed army that actually works, multiple warp spiders and scorpions. While the wraith army looks cool, it kinda will be heavily suffering from bandwagon syndrome and everyone will be using it now that they will have plastic wraithguard.
Col. Dash wrote: Well since they have hosed my Elysians(too much FW stuff will have to sit on a shelf in order to make an legal army now and use my stuff) I might be switching over to what I have always wanted to do and have a Spider themed army that actually works, multiple warp spiders and scorpions. While the wraith army looks cool, it kinda will be heavily suffering from bandwagon syndrome and everyone will be using it now that they will have plastic wraithguard.
I understand that some people like unique and specially themed armies but I never liked the term "bandwagon" when used negatively. I love Eldar I love the lore I love the idea of Wraithguard but I'm also a 16 year old kid from a not so wealthy family. I'm looking forward to buying lots cheap plastic wraith units now that I don't have to save up for a year to buy 5. And it's kind of a buzzkill when I'm seeing as jumping on a bandwagon now that I can afford a really cool, good looking unit that I've wanted for ages.
Compel wrote: I thought they usually had completely different covering art as well?
Or is that just the dust jacket? It definitely is a different kettle of fish to the very good quality collectors rulebooks.
I have the Tzeentch Chaos Daemons one.
It's a different cover art, dust jacket, and ribbon book mark. The cover is made of a different material, which I suppose is meant to feel like feaux leather or something. It's definitely soft to the touch.
I like it, but would only do the LE books for my favorite armies. (C:CSM, C:CD, and C:BT)
BrassScorpion wrote: Poll:
Crimson Hunter or Wraithfighter? Or both?
Wraithblades: Axe and shield or swords? Or one unit of each?
Wraithknight: All guns or sword version? Or one of each?
One of each for the Knight and Blades. Haven't looked over the flyer yet. I'll stick with my metal Wraithguard, though.
Definately the Crimson Hunter as 2 lances and a pulse laser as BS4 or 5 for an Exarch is too awesome to pass up. Maybe 2 if I decide not to use the Hemlock.
Not sure on the Wraithfighter yet as it depends on the rules. I am a little dubious about the mindshock pod as it feels a bit more dark eldar than eldar to me. Time will tell though!
As for the wraiths, I will get 10 Wraithguard as I don't have metal ones and maybe 10 Wraithblades (unless they suck then more wraithguard!). I am hoping for being able to mix swords and axes in the same unit.
As for the Wraithknight, not sure if I am gonna get one due to the cost and size of it (I play pretty much all my games away from home so don't fancy having to buy a whole box just for one model). I think I will have to try and borrow a riptide for a game to try it out.
If I don't get it, I will most likely pick up an extra wraithlord instead.
Col. Dash wrote: Well since they have hosed my Elysians(too much FW stuff will have to sit on a shelf in order to make an legal army now and use my stuff) I might be switching over to what I have always wanted to do and have a Spider themed army that actually works, multiple warp spiders and scorpions. While the wraith army looks cool, it kinda will be heavily suffering from bandwagon syndrome and everyone will be using it now that they will have plastic wraithguard.
I don't think everyone will be playing it. Not everyone played Deathwing when they were unique. Not everyone is wolfwing/draigowing either. I'm holding out hope that a wraith list will be as viable as deathwing was, but I'm sure they'll still be quite rare regardless.
I'm kinda hoping it's done in waves. Most of the releases this time were Iyanden. Maybe we'll get a Saim-hann book later down the way with new jetbikes, and all like that?
Uriels_Flame wrote: "Lets see how long it takes to meet demand on the Eldar models this time around."
All I need is the codex and Wraithguard. Have 3k plus of stuff that sounds like it will still work!
Go grab those DA boxes while you can folks!
All I need to start with are the codex and psychic powers, which I have pre-ordered. I have also ordered Illic Nightspear because I like the model.
Future purchase wise, I plan to add 1 or 2 fliers (I like the Nightshade especially), 10-20 Wraithguard and either a WraithKnight or a second Wraithlord (most likely the Lord because of price and size issues with the Knight). I also might get a few extra Warlocks and/or the Spirit Seer if they are useful in the new book.
I might add some jetbikes and swooping hawks depending on the new rules, but they aren't new releases so don't count!
Does anyone know anything about if Warlocks can be put in any unit like Wolf Guard or the Necron Royal Court? Also what about Warlord Traits? The battle report only had one Warlock and the Trait wasn't mentioned.
MetalOxide wrote: I want to turn that Wraith Knight into a Chaos Knight Titan!
Or you could use it as a proxy for a Revenant scout titan. Damn that thing's big! Now I'm expecting the next Orks codex to have the Stompa in it. I wouldn't even be too mad if they downgraded it so that it wasn't a superheavy anymore. (5 hull points and no power fields, maybe 300 points, okay?)
Not desparaging people from the wraith list but i know of multiple people who either already have it or have been waiting for a chance to play it with affordable Wraithguard, far more than the more generic eldar players(note that just refers to the non-wraith players, myself included). Not knowing yet the force org am thinking Autarch, a couple ranger/pathfinder squads, a couple Warp Spider Squads, a pair of Scorpion squads and a pair of aircraft. Dont know heavy selection yet as it has the most difficult choices. Hopefully War Walkers get moved to Fast and weapons batteries become useful.
I must be alone on this... but I'm happy there aren't new jetbikes. I have 24 of the current ones and do not want to have to replace them.
No, I think the old bikes look fine (the prototype was much nicer though). It's the rider that bugs me... Though you could replace it with a new guardian upper body.
Sorry if this has been asked before (can't be done with shifting through 120+ pages) but what news of the Dire Avengers? Given that they're 5 for £20/$35 are they a vastly improved, kick ass unit capable of knocking out a Leman Russ just by looking at it, or is this a typical GW crank up the price tactic?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Sorry if this has been asked before (can't be done with shifting through 120+ pages) but what news of the Dire Avengers? Given that they're 5 for £20/$35 are they a vastly improved, kick ass unit capable of knocking out a Leman Russ just by looking at it, or is this a typical GW crank up the price tactic?
Even if they are vastly improved in game use, that's not a tangible good I'm paying for, and so is not a good basis for a price increase of nearly double on the same sprues. So, the short answer is, douche move by GW.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Sorry if this has been asked before (can't be done with shifting through 120+ pages) but what news of the Dire Avengers? Given that they're 5 for £20/$35 are they a vastly improved, kick ass unit capable of knocking out a Leman Russ just by looking at it, or is this a typical GW crank up the price tactic?
Looking at the box and description, you get 1 of the normal 2 body/legs sprues, and the Exarch sprue.
So, it's half the bodies, but 2/3 of the amount of plastic.
I must be alone on this... but I'm happy there aren't new jetbikes. I have 24 of the current ones and do not want to have to replace them.
There isn't a GW law stating that you must replace older models with the latest versions to keep playing the game, you know?
You are absolutely true, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want the new awesome looking ones! I'm already worried how my 15 wraithguard will look next to the new ones. I'm persnickety I guess.
jks.
is with the insanely huge wraith knight thing it is the size of a Titan. That is just to way over the top. When tau got the riptide I thought that is pretty cool and kind of falls into the fluff, but this eldar thing is has no place in fluff or on the table in a standard game. It really seems like 
Really? 
