Its also highly telling that many pure Marine players saying how everything is fine and no one else (ie other factions that they don;t play) should or even needs updates to match them are often exactly the same people
screaming that the non Codex Marines (the ones that pretend that they are so different depsite two of them being mostly Codex compliant ) absolutely must have all the new stuff to at least match the Codex Marines as well or they are trash and the world will end....
Their colors are red, black, and white. They value honor and also have rituals that focus around blood, including the consumption of each other's blood. They have fast vehicles.
Who am I talking about? Blood Angels or Saim-hann?
Top tier isn't op and no sane person would think SM shouldn't be top tier anyway. For the record I don't play, so thanks for clearing things up. It seems like a fairly transient problem that'll be cleared up in six months or so.
Astartes at the moment are not "top tier", they completely break the game. During October, in all the major tournaments around the world, they had more top-5 placings than all the other armies combined.. Astartes had 31 top-5 placings, whereas the second army (Tau I think) had 4 or 5.
Just to be awkward I'd point out that some of those tourneys were won by Tau none the less. Although yes it is agreed that marines bad, problem, fix it etc.
Top tier isn't op and no sane person would think SM shouldn't be top tier anyway. For the record I don't play, so thanks for clearing things up. It seems like a fairly transient problem that'll be cleared up in six months or so.
Astartes at the moment are not "top tier", they completely break the game. During October, in all the major tournaments around the world, they had more top-5 placings than all the other armies combined.. Astartes had 31 top-5 placings, whereas the second army (Tau I think) had 4 or 5.
Just to be awkward I'd point out that some of those tourneys were won by Tau none the less. Although yes it is agreed that marines bad, problem, fix it etc.
Looking at only the top placings is useless, because a very good player (and there's a handful of them) can win with almost any army in the game.
You should look at win rates across tournaments. On 40kstats you can find win rates by faction, and you can see that Tau are middle of the pack (50.84% win rate since September) while Space Marines have a 56.96% win rate. IH 67.38% among other chapters.
I mean when Tau are second most places and you have a difference of 26 placements between the first and second best performing army.
Then i feel like that is just nuts.
An Actual Englishman wrote: Yea the space marine players continually making excuses for and defending their obviously OP rules that have much greater depth than other factions are losing all credibility. It's obvious that some players want 40k to become 30k. Its embarrassing.
no one is defending the marines. and the fact that you keep insisting on this makes me question your reading comprehension.
There's plenty of people defending marines and your defence (because you have, too, I've just looked through your posts) ranges from things as morose as "someone has to be top" to "I didn't see these complaints from Xenos players when [choose one = IK, Eldar, Ynarri, IG] were destroying the meta" and my personal favourite "just bide your time ya'll, no doubt everyone will get the '8.5' treatment soon and yet again marines will be trash tier, you'll see!" It's genuinely hilarious and looks like my reading comprehension is fine.
what people are saying is that if you expect to see a chapter tactics revision in PA you're going to be dissappointed.
Why should people not expect to see the same thing that the marines get in the very same book exactly? Why shouldn't people be disappointed when this doesn't happen? Don't try to mislead and focus on Chapter Tactics either - the difference in all rules that Marines enjoy compared to their Chaos/Xenos counterparts in these books has so far been night and day. I wonder why those non-Marine players get upset.
this isn't defending marines (I've been saying since the marine codex launched that Iron Hands is a problem even compared to the other marine chapters it's CLEARLY got issues that are glareingly obvious) this is telling people to be realistic about their expectations.
Iron Hands aren't the only problem, I've proven this multiple times and in threads actually related to the discussion around such (that you remain conspicuously absent from, by the way). ALL Codex Marine factions of EVERY flavour are massively over-performing.
Players' expectations are that they get equal treatment to marines, it shouldn't be unrealistic to expect this bare, simple standard of a multinational company of GW's size that are supposedly "listening to their customers".
Marines, 11 weeks on top. Imperial right behind. Both for games won, and armies played. And 40k stats pretty much confirms it with a massive 57% mono faction win rate that Astartes are too good.
I've seen a translation elsewhere, the top one is the same that was shown on WarCom yesterday, the bottom is when an enemy Psyker fails a Psychic Test within 12" of a Synapse creater you can do D3 mortals to them for 2CP. It's so bad it makes Crucible of Maladiction look good, and it's not.
The bottom one is something about using at the start of the Psychic Phase, and until the end of the Psychic Phase then something something wholly within 12 inches of <Hive Fleet> Synapse something something D3.
The bottom one is something about using at the start of the Psychic Phase, and until the end of the Psychic Phase then something something wholly within 12 inches of <Hive Fleet> Synapse something something D3.
It says D3 Deadly Wounds, (i'm thinking Mortal wounds here).
An Actual Englishman wrote: Yea the space marine players continually making excuses for and defending their obviously OP rules that have much greater depth than other factions are losing all credibility. It's obvious that some players want 40k to become 30k. Its embarrassing.
no one is defending the marines. and the fact that you keep insisting on this makes me question your reading comprehension.
There's plenty of people defending marines and your defence (because you have, too, I've just looked through your posts) ranges from things as morose as "someone has to be top" to "I didn't see these complaints from Xenos players when [choose one = IK, Eldar, Ynarri, IG] were destroying the meta" and my personal favourite "just bide your time ya'll, no doubt everyone will get the '8.5' treatment soon and yet again marines will be trash tier, you'll see!" It's genuinely hilarious and looks like my reading comprehension is fine.
what people are saying is that if you expect to see a chapter tactics revision in PA you're going to be dissappointed.
Why should people not expect to see the same thing that the marines get in the very same book exactly? Why shouldn't people be disappointed when this doesn't happen? Don't try to mislead and focus on Chapter Tactics either - the difference in all rules that Marines enjoy compared to their Chaos/Xenos counterparts in these books has so far been night and day. I wonder why those non-Marine players get upset.
this isn't defending marines (I've been saying since the marine codex launched that Iron Hands is a problem even compared to the other marine chapters it's CLEARLY got issues that are glareingly obvious) this is telling people to be realistic about their expectations.
Iron Hands aren't the only problem, I've proven this multiple times and in threads actually related to the discussion around such (that you remain conspicuously absent from, by the way). ALL Codex Marine factions of EVERY flavour are massively over-performing.
Players' expectations are that they get equal treatment to marines, it shouldn't be unrealistic to expect this bare, simple standard of a multinational company of GW's size that are supposedly "listening to their customers".
You've been doing nothing but defend Marines and their absurd power boost for months now.
Thank you.
telling someone to wait until future codex releases is defending now is it? umm no that's realistic, whining online isn't going to achomplish anything. patience though is really all we can do, future codices will come and as well as FAQs and errata.
Redcruisair wrote: From what I can gather from the 2CP power on the german FB post.
-Use this doing the start of the enemy psychic phase.
At the end of the phase, if an enemy unit fails a psychic test within 12" of a "Swarmfleet"-Synapse-unit, deal 3 mortal wounds to that unit.-
So the enemy could just avoid the Mortal Wounds by avoiding psychic tests by any psyker within range and those 2CP would have been used for nothing except maybe the denial of the enemy using psychic powers within 12" for that one phase.
Well, Death Company Intercessors are Elites and pay 1 Pt for being Death Company (+1 Attack on the Charge and a 6+++). Unfortunate that they are Elites since the Blood Angels have so many choices there, but they are still going to be good. Doesn't look like there are any other Death Company units though. I am going to need to get a bunch of Death Company pauldrons though.
Redcruisair wrote: From what I can gather from the 2CP power on the german FB post.
-Use this doing the start of the enemy psychic phase.
At the end of the phase, if an enemy unit fails a psychic test within 12" of a "Swarmfleet"-Synapse-unit, deal 3 mortal wounds to that unit.-
So the enemy could just avoid the Mortal Wounds by avoiding psychic tests by any psyker within range and those 2CP would have been used for nothing except maybe the denial of the enemy using psychic powers within 12" for that one phase.
Yep, CP2 for the chance to do nothing. Feel like buying some primaris marines now? - GW
telling someone to wait until future codex releases is defending now is it? umm no that's realistic, whining online isn't going to achomplish anything. patience though is really all we can do, future codices will come and as well as FAQs and errata.
Oh Don't worry your getting your other Marine Codex boosts - guess its FU to everyone else. and apparently you are more than happy with that - sad really.
Feel like answering any other of the points that were raised in his post as they were good ones.
Redcruisair wrote: From what I can gather from the 2CP power on the german FB post.
-Use this doing the start of the enemy psychic phase.
At the end of the phase, if an enemy unit fails a psychic test within 12" of a "Swarmfleet"-Synapse-unit, deal 3 mortal wounds to that unit.-
So the enemy could just avoid the Mortal Wounds by avoiding psychic tests by any psyker within range and those 2CP would have been used for nothing except maybe the denial of the enemy using psychic powers within 12" for that one phase.
Yep, CP2 for the chance to do nothing. Feel like buying some primaris marines now? - GW
This kind of thinking always boggles my mind.
If the other player has heavy enough Psychic presence to have multiple Psykers to avoid psychic tests within range of (presumably) you choosing a Big Deal unit that happens to be near an enemy Psyker...then even if they skip one of their Psykers to avoid those MWs, they effectively shuttered something that they built for during their turn.
Kanluwen wrote: This kind of thinking always boggles my mind.
If the other player has heavy enough Psychic presence to have multiple Psykers to avoid psychic tests within range of (presumably) you choosing a Big Deal unit that happens to be near an enemy Psyker...then even if they skip one of their Psykers to avoid those MWs, they effectively shuttered something that they built for during their turn.
He means that the 2CP stratagem does nothing if the enemy manage to pass all his psychic tests. Which usually are relatively easy to pass.
this isn't defending marines (I've been saying since the marine codex launched that Iron Hands is a problem even compared to the other marine chapters it's CLEARLY got issues that are glareingly obvious) this is telling people to be realistic about their expectations.
Iron Hands aren't the only problem, I've proven this multiple times and in threads actually related to the discussion around such (that you remain conspicuously absent from, by the way). ALL Codex Marine factions of EVERY flavour are massively over-performing.
Salamanders have a sub-50% win rate. Ultras aren't overperforming. This has been pointed out to you repeatedly.
As a side-note for the inevitable TiWP argument, you wouldn't happen to have the TiWP for Space Marines broken down per Chapter available anywhere? 40kstats seems to only do it by Codex, so it's got Iron Hands thrown in with Salamanders.
So something about the custom hive fleets, it looks like it might be the custom ones trade the one 'strong' trait of a main fleet for two 'weak' ones: the article specifically says X AND Y traits, not X or Y.
NinthMusketeer wrote: So something about the custom hive fleets, it looks like it might be the custom ones trade the one 'strong' trait of a main fleet for two 'weak' ones: the article specifically says X AND Y traits, not X or Y.
X and Y is how all custom traits have been yeah. I think GW ius slowly beginning to standardize chapter tactics..... well except iron hands who get 3 traits "cause reasons"
NinthMusketeer wrote: So something about the custom hive fleets, it looks like it might be the custom ones trade the one 'strong' trait of a main fleet for two 'weak' ones: the article specifically says X AND Y traits, not X or Y.
I thought that was understood? You're making a new Fleet Trait. Meaning you pick two. It's the same system as Chapter Tactics.
Which is fine. It just looks boring for Tyranids narratively, and if any combo doesn't just plain beat out Kraken competitively, then it's not going to change that front either.
this isn't defending marines (I've been saying since the marine codex launched that Iron Hands is a problem even compared to the other marine chapters it's CLEARLY got issues that are glareingly obvious) this is telling people to be realistic about their expectations.
Iron Hands aren't the only problem, I've proven this multiple times and in threads actually related to the discussion around such (that you remain conspicuously absent from, by the way). ALL Codex Marine factions of EVERY flavour are massively over-performing.
Salamanders have a sub-50% win rate. Ultras aren't overperforming. This has been pointed out to you repeatedly.
As a side-note for the inevitable TiWP argument, you wouldn't happen to have the TiWP for Space Marines broken down per Chapter available anywhere? 40kstats seems to only do it by Codex, so it's got Iron Hands thrown in with Salamanders.
No one has taken Salamanders competitively in any great numbers because they were all waiting for the results of the FAQ on Self Sacrifice. If their win rate is sub 50%, its due to mirror matches, they lose to other marines primarily.
Ultras have a 53% win rate and an over performing TWiP/first loss. As do all marine types. All marines have an extremely high first loss number (2.3 and above).
If you want a breakdown of the stats in more detail with TWiP per supplement listen to the stats centre podcast I've shared multiple times now. They give the detail there.
It's kind of irritating that you ignore the thread I made to discuss this specifically and elect to start derailing this one. If you want detail and want a discussion around this, go to the 'Nu-Marines are/aren't broken megathread' which is exactly the place for this kind of discussion. I won't be responding here anymore on marines OP state and will simply link you to the actual thread to discuss the topic.
Barely a few pages in, and already it’s an improvement plot wise on Phoenix. Mainly because it’s new background, and not a rehash of the past few years.
Spoiler:
And it’s Kor Phaeron that organises the Chaos invasion
Book in hand? How does it look for the nids - was the preview on the community page adequate for their new rules or is the best stuff still waiting in the book?
Barely a few pages in, and already it’s an improvement plot wise on Phoenix. Mainly because it’s new background, and not a rehash of the past few years.
Spoiler:
And it’s Kor Phaeron that organises the Chaos invasion
How is the overall plot? Does it just follow the old template of Chaos invasion of <insert new never before heard of planet> gets upper hand over Imperial non-Marines, until the Marines arrive to save the day and the CSM retreat shaking their fists like a Saturday morning cartoon villain?
Barely a few pages in, and already it’s an improvement plot wise on Phoenix. Mainly because it’s new background, and not a rehash of the past few years.
Spoiler:
And it’s Kor Phaeron that organises the Chaos invasion
Is it?
I actually loved the story of Phoenix Rising with Yvraine shadow-manouvering vs. Syll'eske, all the while building her own little magnificent seven with Jain Zar, Lelith, the Midnight Sorrow Solitaire, etc...
The bummer was you couldn't ever play the story even in the narrative missions because none of the people that turn Ynnari in the lore can be used in a Ynnari army .
Barely a few pages in, and already it’s an improvement plot wise on Phoenix. Mainly because it’s new background, and not a rehash of the past few years.
Spoiler:
And it’s Kor Phaeron that organises the Chaos invasion
How is the overall plot? Does it just follow the old template of Chaos invasion of <insert new never before heard of planet> gets upper hand over Imperial non-Marines, until the Marines arrive to save the day and the CSM retreat shaking their fists like a Saturday morning cartoon villain?
Haven’t read that far. Got a rotten cold, so have been napping since. But the Chaos tactics seem solid, even if there is some sort of Deus Ex going on and ‘next tiiiiiime’ vibes.
Wasn't the leader of the chaos forces already known? It's not a spoiler; him being part of the campaign was revealed by the Community site, I think. Still, it'll be fun to learn what he does and what he's been up to
I'm a bit disappointed that they're throwing away the narrative opportunity and build up towards primaris still having their geneseed flaws so quickly after their introduction in this edition just to make a cheap cut and paste unit entry apparently.
warboss wrote: I'm a bit disappointed that they're throwing away the narrative opportunity and build up towards primaris still having their geneseed class so quickly after their introduction in this edition just to make a cheap cut and paste unit entry apparently.
the biggest complaint when primaris where introduced was that it made all marines "samey" so.. *shrugs*
So the Article today shows the Blood Angels preparing for a three pronged strike against the Red Scar. Because apparently Baal is completely free of Tyranid bioforms/bacteria/hidden nests, etc.
In an effort to expand and retake territory, they're going to assault the Nid fleets on devoured/currently being devoured, planets.
And they only need to take three planets to have a solid enough base of expansion.
I'm baffled again at how poorly they've written the Tyranids, and how they're ignoring how insidious they can be. Not to mention nothing was said of the Khorne incursion that assisted the Blood Angels. On top of that, it's another doomsday plot that's going to be stopped a millisecond from midnight, just like Devestation.
Maybe I read it wrong, but this just seems like poor writing and bad lore-keeping.
Carnikang wrote: So the Article today shows the Blood Angels preparing for a three pronged strike against the Red Scar. Because apparently Baal is completely free of Tyranid bioforms/bacteria/hidden nests, etc.
In an effort to expand and retake territory, they're going to assault the Nid fleets on devoured/currently being devoured, planets.
And they only need to take three planets to have a solid enough base of expansion.
I'm baffled again at how poorly they've written the Tyranids, and how they're ignoring how insidious they can be. Not to mention nothing was said of the Khorne incursion that assisted the Blood Angels. On top of that, it's another doomsday plot that's going to be stopped a millisecond from midnight, just like Devestation.
Maybe I read it wrong, but this just seems like poor writing and bad lore-keeping.
The lack of Tyranid taint I can give a pass too, you don't hear much referance to it on Macragge these days eaither. and GW's being vague about the passage of time, it's entirely likely the blood angels have had more then a century to scour their home. (it's also possiable they've only had 5 minutes. the book may clarify that for us although I doubt it.)
As for the 3 core worlds, I don't see an issue with it. the exact words are "make it easier for Imperial forces to spread out from Bhaal" presumably these worlds basicly have favorable warp tides allowing for faster travel. the warp is a funny thing and travel along the correct travel corridors is faster. the novel Dark Creed explains this really well
Carnikang wrote: So the Article today shows the Blood Angels preparing for a three pronged strike against the Red Scar. Because apparently Baal is completely free of Tyranid bioforms/bacteria/hidden nests, etc.
In an effort to expand and retake territory, they're going to assault the Nid fleets on devoured/currently being devoured, planets.
And they only need to take three planets to have a solid enough base of expansion.
I'm baffled again at how poorly they've written the Tyranids, and how they're ignoring how insidious they can be. Not to mention nothing was said of the Khorne incursion that assisted the Blood Angels. On top of that, it's another doomsday plot that's going to be stopped a millisecond from midnight, just like Devestation.
Maybe I read it wrong, but this just seems like poor writing and bad lore-keeping.
The lack of Tyranid taint I can give a pass too, you don't hear much referance to it on Macragge these days eaither. and GW's being vague about the passage of time, it's entirely likely the blood angels have had more then a century to scour their home. (it's also possiable they've only had 5 minutes. the book may clarify that for us although I doubt it.)
As for the 3 core worlds, I don't see an issue with it. the exact words are "make it easier for Imperial forces to spread out from Bhaal" presumably these worlds basicly have favorable warp tides allowing for faster travel. the warp is a funny thing and travel along the correct travel corridors is faster. the novel Dark Creed explains this really well
As far as I know, Maccrage still has the taint.
But for the 3 world's, assaulting Hive Fleeta mid devour really isn't the best idea, and even then, better to do it all in space, and not assault the surface.
Depending on the timeframe as well, these world's might just be barren rock with not a Tyranid bioship in sight. It only take a month or two for consumption of we go by the timelines we've seen. Or, they could be teeming balls of claws in the end process, meaning they'll likely already be absorbing the planet and have more biomass to fight in space.
There nothing wrong with them getting a foothold, but 3 worlds seems either too many, or not enough. Depending on the size of the Red Scar. That's just an opinion of mine though.
Honestly is is a pretty standard article. It is not offensive, but somewhat boring.
Although I do enjoy the fact that the Baal tendril didn't include the entirety of the Red Scar tendril, and even after its defeat the tendril continues devouring the region around Baal.
Surely mid devour is a pretty good time to attack, a lot of the hive fleets beasties will have stepped into the recycling pools so won't be there to fight back, and biogoop will be easy to purge with fire,
what you really don't want is the fleet to be able to suck up the goo and turn it into more ships & creatures
So Blood Angel's apparently got a second part to their Chapter Tactic, which is one of the successor traits in the main codex: +1" to advance and charge. I called it.
It now makes more sense that we have part of the Dark Angel and part of the Space Wolves ones. Which means we really have no argument against consolidation too.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So Blood Angel's apparently got a second part to their Chapter Tactic, which is one of the successor traits in the main codex: +1" to advance and charge. I called it.
It now makes more sense that we have part of the Dark Angel and part of the Space Wolves ones. Which means we really have no argument against consolidation too.
It also highlights how bogus it is that other factions have the same traits with no changes. The bias is obvious.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So Blood Angel's apparently got a second part to their Chapter Tactic, which is one of the successor traits in the main codex: +1" to advance and charge. I called it.
It now makes more sense that we have part of the Dark Angel and part of the Space Wolves ones. Which means we really have no argument against consolidation too.
It also highlights how bogus it is that other factions have the same traits with no changes. The bias is obvious.
I certainly don't disagree! We haven't seen the full picture for Tyranids but the stuff that Eldar and their BDSM cousins got was laughably bad and still doesn't fix core issues with those armies. The amount of melee based Kabal benefits is laughable as they're ranged part of the codex basically!
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So Blood Angel's apparently got a second part to their Chapter Tactic, which is one of the successor traits in the main codex: +1" to advance and charge. I called it.
It now makes more sense that we have part of the Dark Angel and part of the Space Wolves ones. Which means we really have no argument against consolidation too.
It also highlights how bogus it is that other factions have the same traits with no changes. The bias is obvious.
Yeah I was pretty thrilled when I saw the "fearsome visage " chapter tactic.
Oh so c:sm can take my legion's crappy legion trait and ANOTHER one as well?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So Blood Angel's apparently got a second part to their Chapter Tactic, which is one of the successor traits in the main codex: +1" to advance and charge. I called it.
It now makes more sense that we have part of the Dark Angel and part of the Space Wolves ones. Which means we really have no argument against consolidation too.
It also highlights how bogus it is that other factions have the same traits with no changes. The bias is obvious.
Yeah I was pretty thrilled when I saw the "fearsome visage " chapter tactic.
Oh so c:sm can take my legion's crappy legion trait and ANOTHER one as well?
BuT yOu CaN sTaCk WiTh RaPtOrS aNd MoRaLe Is MoRe ImPoRtAnT tHaN yOu BeLiEvE!!!
yeah I hope 2020 sees a number of new codices for non-marine armies. with the PA updates I don't think blood angels need a new codex, and assuming space woilves and dark angels get the same they're fine, but other armies need a new codex.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So Blood Angel's apparently got a second part to their Chapter Tactic, which is one of the successor traits in the main codex: +1" to advance and charge. I called it.
It now makes more sense that we have part of the Dark Angel and part of the Space Wolves ones. Which means we really have no argument against consolidation too.
It also highlights how bogus it is that other factions have the same traits with no changes. The bias is obvious.
Yeah I was pretty thrilled when I saw the "fearsome visage " chapter tactic.
Oh so c:sm can take my legion's crappy legion trait and ANOTHER one as well?
BuT yOu CaN sTaCk WiTh RaPtOrS aNd MoRaLe Is MoRe ImPoRtAnT tHaN yOu BeLiEvE!!!
I suppose Morale is important in some hypothetical meta where the majority of your opponents play that army that uses large blocks of units and is exceptionally vunerable to moral.... you know... that army.. what's it called? I'm sure it exists
Automatically Appended Next Post: So far, we had:
Book 1 with four releases.
Book 2 with a sorcerer
Book 3 with mephiston.
And more new heroes set to be revealed. The Reborn line is probably primaris. Grey knights or Azrael next book
Selfcontrol wrote: It seems SW vs Orks will be in PA6 and not PA4 like we thought it would be.
Next book is Thousand Sons vs DA + GK ?
yep, and my guess is the Tau will be either vs Admech or Deathwatch.
Possibly both.
Or none actually, it could have a xenos-off against necrons. we are running out of loyalists anyway, and there is also the saga of the beast right after-orks for sure, loyalists could be SW? (saga) and/or deathwatch.
"Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion to lead the charge in this terrible age. These legendary heroes will include reborn, reimagined and brand-new characters, but we can’t reveal any more details at the moment."
That's an interesting mix of characters for those three books.
Reimagined I think makes sense for Ghaz, it seems odd to have an Ork book that doesn't include him. Especially as the new Beast. Unless this is taking us back to Vigilus, where there are Space wolves and Orks (and this is the Wolf primaris update).
Reborn seems like it would make sense for the Ritual of the Damned - either more crossing the Rubicon Primaris or part of whatever this ritual was meant to do. Left field choice here would be also Puretide or Shadowsun, cloned and implanted with an engram chip.
Jidmah wrote: Tau vs Death Guard would also be possible.
So would Tau vs Tau...
Farsight and Shadowsun both could use updated models, and much like they did with the Blood of the Phoenix box? It could be possible that Farsight Enclaves get a Ynnari style setup.
Psychic Awakening would be much more loved by people if each book came with models like the first one. A character and a plastic unit for each of the two factions.
Galas wrote: Psychic Awakening would be much more loved by people if each book came with models like the first one. A character and a plastic unit for each of the two factions.
People didn't love the first psychic awakening though. The release of those models was extremely cynical even by GW standards. Especially since you've still got to buy the PA rules separately lol...
just look at the new sisters box that sold out instantly - it's 20 USD cheaper, has 100% beautiful new models, and it comes with datacards and the new book. The online stores are still struggling to sell the eldar boxes
I'm not defending the rules of the first book or Blood of the Phoenix. I'm just saying that one character and one unit for the two forces that are part of the book would had people much more hyped for all of this.
Please please please PA book 4 don't be just a DA/GK codex with 3 stratagems and 3 relics for Thousand Sons, after the nerfs just received with CA we need something...
AlmightyWalrus wrote: "Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion". Except if you're Chaos or Black Templars, because you're only getting a generic Chaos Sorcerer.
To be fair the quote is talking about these three upcoming books..
And it doesn’t say named character, so arguably a sorcerer could be an epic champion
As above, I think this would have been a lot better Received if the releases were like PA1 models wise (maybe 2 onwards content wise), even if it meant they were further apart..
Jidmah wrote: Tau vs Death Guard would also be possible.
So would Tau vs Tau...
Farsight and Shadowsun both could use updated models, and much like they did with the Blood of the Phoenix box? It could be possible that Farsight Enclaves get a Ynnari style setup.
Except FSE are not a different army, they are merely a chapter equivalent. that idea makes no sense at all.
deTox91 wrote: Please please please PA book 4 don't be just a DA/GK codex with 3 stratagems and 3 relics for Thousand Sons, after the nerfs just received with CA we need something...
Donno about you, my list went DOWN in points.
Yea, the princes and goats went up, but a lot of stuff went down.
I'm really confused as to why it's Thousand Sons VS Gk and Dark Angels. Instead of the faction they have incredible hatred and rivalry with and continually have nonsensical battles with. I can understand GK because daemons but why DA instead of the Wolves.
The bright side is it delays my suffering as GW releases another atrocity...
Jidmah wrote: Tau vs Death Guard would also be possible.
So would Tau vs Tau...
Farsight and Shadowsun both could use updated models, and much like they did with the Blood of the Phoenix box? It could be possible that Farsight Enclaves get a Ynnari style setup.
Except FSE are not a different army, they are merely a chapter equivalent. that idea makes no sense at all.
deTox91 wrote: Please please please PA book 4 don't be just a DA/GK codex with 3 stratagems and 3 relics for Thousand Sons, after the nerfs just received with CA we need something...
Donno about you, my list went DOWN in points.
Yea, the princes and goats went up, but a lot of stuff went down.
My went up (2 princes and 30 goats ita already +60) and even if it stayed even, in a world where some other armies gor 150-200 points more to use in their lost that'll leave my in a real bad spot
Well, with a Space Wolves release in march, they'll probably miss the peak-Space Marine era the second time in 8th edition, assuming that'll be the spring FAQ when GW starts course-correcting, lol
dan2026 wrote: It better not be more space marine characters.
Its going to be more space marines isn't it?
dude, if any faction of Space Marines needs a new character model, it's Dark Angels.
Really hope thats sarcasm.
Not at all.
Thousand Sons...lots of plastic models...none needed.
Grey Knights...Draigo could do with a model, maybe a return of the ghost fella?
Dark Angels....Azrael and Ezekiel...ancient models, Belial is terrible too.
Out of the 3 in the next book, Dark Angels need the new character the most. Period.
deTox91 wrote: Please please please PA book 4 don't be just a DA/GK codex with 3 stratagems and 3 relics for Thousand Sons, after the nerfs just received with CA we need something...
It would be nice if Grey Knights got straight truescale upgrades, but pigs don’t fly yet so I’ll take an updated Dark Angels character as long as they don’t bitch him like they did to Shrike.
PA4 is going to to be the same as PA2 and PA3 - yet another Marine supplement in all but name - same as P5 but Wolves rather than Dark Angels
So 50% Dark Angels "Not Codex", 25% generic Marines Boosts, 13% Lore about Some form of Marines and 13% split between Grey Knights and Thousand Sons and maybe 4& on anythig non marine related.
I love how people say thousand sons don’t need any models. Our codex has three elite choices and two fast attack with one as spawn and the other is literally a unit just ported over from AOS. They really need at least one more fast and elite choices. However based on what CSM got I am not holding my breath that Tsons will get anything good.
deTox91 wrote: Please please please PA book 4 don't be just a DA/GK codex with 3 stratagems and 3 relics for Thousand Sons, after the nerfs just received with CA we need something...
Mr Morden wrote: PA4 is going to to be the same as PA2 and PA3 - yet another Marine supplement in all but name - same as P5 but Wolves rather than Dark Angels
So 50% Dark Angels "Not Codex", 25% generic Marines Boosts, 13% Lore about Some form of Marines and 13% split between Grey Knights and Thousand Sons and maybe 4& on anythig non marine related.
Fun fact, I did a page count of PA2.
Pages devoted to Space Marines (including both the masters of the chapter stuff and the black templars stuff) 22. Of these ten pages are things ALL Marine players can use.
Pages devoted to CSM rules: 38(ok granted 6 or so of these are random name charts). Of these are 3 pages of stuff ALL CSM players can use.
So, PA2 actually devotes MORE Space to CSMs. the problem is that most of the space is devoted to stuff that is legion specific and stuff marines already have so it FEELS like less. I mean, if you're playing Iron Warriors you don't really get anything from the Alpha Legion rules, and someone who plays Black Legion (like me) got mearly 5 new relics out of the book. so despite more pages of CSM stuff, it feels like less value.
Marines, 11 weeks on top. Imperial right behind. Both for games won, and armies played. And 40k stats pretty much confirms it with a massive 57% mono faction win rate that Astartes are too good.
I'm not defending marine at all because they are indeed overpower (IH were at least for sure) but 57 % win cannot be considered to be a "massive" win rate, especially when it is just in the next few month after release. Some specific marine chapter need a fix, that is true, but the whine on marine (and on marine codexes daaammnnnn) is also seriously aggravating. There's too much jalousy in this game really : some people here have posted dozens if not hundreds of posts just whining about the fact that SW/BA/DA are not in the main SM book and have specific units/restrictions.
I got my hand on the Faith and Fury and book and damn I'm a so bummed. Not even 100 pages, less than 10 page on black templar with almost no fluff, and 6 pages per heretic legion with no fluff at all.There are less than 20 page on the conflict on the Talledus system. The role of the Black Templars in the conflict is almost not explained : they come, they fight and that's it. Those PA book are a complete robbery : 32.5 € for that kind of thing is absurd. Compared to vigilus those books just suck completly. I'll still buy th 4th PA since it has DA in it and I'm a DA player but I'm not waiting for much.
Spoletta wrote: The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.
The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.
CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.
Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.
Are you drunk?
Chaos was far and away the most OP faction pre-Space Marines, sweeping everything from Adepticon to Slaughterfest, and got the most updates. Aeldari was a stale mono-build that was ok in ITC thanks to planes being able to score secondaries, but hadn't won anything in vanilla 40K, as everything non-flyers was (and remains) basically garbage-tier. The Tyranid boost doesn't look impressive, though I haven't seen people build lists with it yet.
Spoletta wrote: The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.
The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.
CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.
Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.
Are you drunk?
Chaos was far and away the most OP faction pre-Space Marines, sweeping everything from Adepticon to Slaughterfest, and got the most updates. Aeldari was a stale mono-build that was ok in ITC thanks to planes being able to score secondaries, but hadn't won anything in vanilla 40K, as everything non-flyers was (and remains) basically garbage-tier. The Tyranid boost doesn't look impressive, though I haven't seen people build lists with it yet.
Apparently Aeldari have some huge buff in the CA.
And to go in your way, the faith and fury PA have some nasty (and imoOP) stratagem for chaos (alpha legion most notably).
Spoletta wrote: The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.
The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.
CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.
Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.
Are you drunk?
Chaos was far and away the most OP faction pre-Space Marines, sweeping everything from Adepticon to Slaughterfest, and got the most updates. Aeldari was a stale mono-build that was ok in ITC thanks to planes being able to score secondaries, but hadn't won anything in vanilla 40K, as everything non-flyers was (and remains) basically garbage-tier. The Tyranid boost doesn't look impressive, though I haven't seen people build lists with it yet.
Apparently Aeldari have some huge buff in the CA.
And to go in your way, the faith and fury PA have some nasty (and imoOP) stratagem for chaos (alpha legion most notably).
Which is what I said. Chaos was already the strongest army out there (ignoring Nu-Marines) AND got by far the strongest buff from PA thus far (with the possible exceptions of Blood Angels). Which is the opposite of what Spoletta said, who claimed PA buffs were somehow proportionate to how good/bad the army was previously.
chaos might have been strong but was codex chaos marines? I ask because I've heard this plenty but you don't exactly hear a lot of CSM fans happy with their state of codex.
BrianDavion wrote: chaos might have been strong but was codex chaos marines? I ask because I've heard this plenty but you don't exactly hear a lot of CSM fans happy with their state of codex.
I play chaos and DA. CSM is not weak per say, what people (rightly) whine about is that a chaos space marine lists are not viable : what is actually winning in tourney is chaos soup, with plague as troops or cultist. The CSM codex suck ass in terms of diversity, fluff and coherence, but there are a few very good units/combo/list that you can build out of it.
Spoletta wrote: The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.
The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.
CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.
Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.
Are you drunk?
Chaos was far and away the most OP faction pre-Space Marines, sweeping everything from Adepticon to Slaughterfest, and got the most updates. Aeldari was a stale mono-build that was ok in ITC thanks to planes being able to score secondaries, but hadn't won anything in vanilla 40K, as everything non-flyers was (and remains) basically garbage-tier. The Tyranid boost doesn't look impressive, though I haven't seen people build lists with it yet.
Apparently Aeldari have some huge buff in the CA.
And to go in your way, the faith and fury PA have some nasty (and imoOP) stratagem for chaos (alpha legion most notably).
Which is what I said. Chaos was already the strongest army out there (ignoring Nu-Marines) AND got by far the strongest buff from PA thus far (with the possible exceptions of Blood Angels). Which is the opposite of what Spoletta said, who claimed PA buffs were somehow proportionate to how good/bad the army was previously.
Spoletta wrote: Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.
You're out of touch. I don't see anything that would do that. I see situational buffs to weak units in strategem form, psychic powers that are mostly okay, relics that are better than the ones we get base, and a nu-warlord table for general unit use. Which it's better than I thought it'd be, but no where near making Tyranids upper competitive.
As for the traits we will have to see what people build out of these. A few look interesting, and there are a decent amount of them.
Will have to get the book to really go through it.
Spoletta wrote: The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.
The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.
CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.
Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.
By this logic, by the time they get around to giving Necrons a psychic awakening book, it better give us an actual Gauss rifle to disintegrate our opponent with. None of those names suggest necrons to me, so we're waiting until April at the earliest. Back into stasis they go.
Spoletta wrote: The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.
The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.
CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.
Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.
Are you nuts, Nids received slim pickings at best.
I guess that time will tell, but i'm seeing a lot of really broken stuff.
You just have to forget everything you knew about tyranids. Goodbye stealers, we don't need you any more.
This PA3 is giving me just so many new ideas...
Edit: Ok, exact wording of fleet adaptations is out. They were not as good as spoiled initially. Still, there is a lot of stuff i have to digest it.
Nothing here stops us from wanting Kraken stealers in a detachemnt of their own. They're still extremely good, and if anything, now have access to a Broodlord who can take a decent relic.
Spoletta wrote: The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.
The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.
CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.
Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.
Are you nuts, Nids received slim pickings at best.
I guess that time will tell, but i'm seeing a lot of really broken stuff.
You just have to forget everything you knew about tyranids. Goodbye stealers, we don't need you any more.
This PA3 is giving me just so many new ideas...
Edit: Ok, exact wording of fleet adaptations is out. They were not as good as spoiled initially. Still, there is a lot of stuff i have to digest it.
Lmao, broken as in non-functional, right? Like, "here, have a 6+++. But only on monsters, and only one the long range ones!". Or "okay, I know we give Nids weaker stuff that could be possibly abused by hordes. So let's take the Expert Crafters trait like Eldar have, make it only re-roll hits, and only within 6'' of synapse. Because hordes could abuse that, right? What's that, it's anti-synergistic with hordes? Oh well, let's nerf it anyways!"
Please refute me Spoletta, I would love to be wrong, but I think you are living in fantasy land.
Tyranids are my least favorite 40k army. And I feel bad about that, because while they don't interest me enough to ever go look into them (I've never even examined their sprues)... I'm aware enough that I know they get hosed by GW.
Spoletta wrote: The PA books are showing a pattern consistent with initial rumors.
The bigger the competitive problems of your faction, the bigger the boost.
CWE and Aeldari were left mostly untouched, Chaos received some good stuff but nothing game breaking.
Nids received huge buffs, probably enough to propel them to SM level or just under that.
Are you nuts, Nids received slim pickings at best.
I guess that time will tell, but i'm seeing a lot of really broken stuff.
You just have to forget everything you knew about tyranids. Goodbye stealers, we don't need you any more.
This PA3 is giving me just so many new ideas...
Edit: Ok, exact wording of fleet adaptations is out. They were not as good as spoiled initially. Still, there is a lot of stuff i have to digest it.
Lmao, broken as in non-functional, right? Like, "here, have a 6+++. But only on monsters, and only one the long range ones!". Or "okay, I know we give Nids weaker stuff that could be possibly abused by hordes. So let's take the Expert Crafters trait like Eldar have, make it only re-roll hits, and only within 6'' of synapse. Because hordes could abuse that, right? What's that, it's anti-synergistic with hordes? Oh well, let's nerf it anyways!"
Please refute me Spoletta, I would love to be wrong, but I think you are living in fantasy land.
deTox91 wrote: Please please please PA book 4 don't be just a DA/GK codex with 3 stratagems and 3 relics for Thousand Sons, after the nerfs just received with CA we need something...
Honest question: Are you new to TS?
New-ish, why?
I am asking because the only nerf I saw with TS in CA2019 was to the demon princes which are only abused in nurgle/other csm funky competitive lists. Tzaangors still do what they do at 8pts, no change there.
Lmao, broken as in non-functional, right? Like, "here, have a 6+++. But only on monsters, and only one the long range ones!". Or "okay, I know we give Nids weaker stuff that could be possibly abused by hordes. So let's take the Expert Crafters trait like Eldar have, make it only re-roll hits, and only within 6'' of synapse. Because hordes could abuse that, right? What's that, it's anti-synergistic with hordes? Oh well, let's nerf it anyways!"
Please refute me Spoletta, I would love to be wrong, but I think you are living in fantasy land.
Well yes if you cherry-pick the worst examples of something it's always going to look bad.
Tyranids also got:
Multiple ways to make charging reliable, even from deep strike
Stacking abilities to improve AP of melee infantry
Many units can be more resilient, particularly Monsters.
Big improvements in monster damage output, to the point where ~140pt Trygons are a genuine threat to Knights
I'm not saying Tyranids are going to compete with Iron Hands any time soon, but this update does address a lot of long-standing concerns and I'm looking forward to seeing it work on the table.
Mr Morden wrote: PA4 is going to to be the same as PA2 and PA3 - yet another Marine supplement in all but name - same as P5 but Wolves rather than Dark Angels
So 50% Dark Angels "Not Codex", 25% generic Marines Boosts, 13% Lore about Some form of Marines and 13% split between Grey Knights and Thousand Sons and maybe 4& on anythig non marine related.
Fun fact, I did a page count of PA2.
Pages devoted to Space Marines (including both the masters of the chapter stuff and the black templars stuff) 22. Of these ten pages are things ALL Marine players can use.
Pages devoted to CSM rules: 38(ok granted 6 or so of these are random name charts). Of these are 3 pages of stuff ALL CSM players can use.
So, PA2 actually devotes MORE Space to CSMs. the problem is that most of the space is devoted to stuff that is legion specific and stuff marines already have so it FEELS like less. I mean, if you're playing Iron Warriors you don't really get anything from the Alpha Legion rules, and someone who plays Black Legion (like me) got mearly 5 new relics out of the book. so despite more pages of CSM stuff, it feels like less value.
No Brian - it is less.
PA 2 pages for all Marines - 10.
PA 2 pages for Black Templar's only - 12 (presumably, if your numbers are correct).
PA 2 pages for all CSM - 3. Much less than 10.
PA 2 pages for Night Lords (equivalent to Black Templars) only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for Alpha Legion only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for World Eaters only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for Emperors Children only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for Iron Warriors only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for Word Bearers only - much less than 12.
Equality here would be if each Legion had a supplement level release, just as Marines are getting, in the PA books (if they don't already have them, of course). Obviously this hasn't happened. There are even a significant number more global rules for Marines than CSM. It's insane.
Mr Morden wrote: PA4 is going to to be the same as PA2 and PA3 - yet another Marine supplement in all but name - same as P5 but Wolves rather than Dark Angels
So 50% Dark Angels "Not Codex", 25% generic Marines Boosts, 13% Lore about Some form of Marines and 13% split between Grey Knights and Thousand Sons and maybe 4& on anythig non marine related.
Fun fact, I did a page count of PA2.
Pages devoted to Space Marines (including both the masters of the chapter stuff and the black templars stuff) 22. Of these ten pages are things ALL Marine players can use.
Pages devoted to CSM rules: 38(ok granted 6 or so of these are random name charts). Of these are 3 pages of stuff ALL CSM players can use.
So, PA2 actually devotes MORE Space to CSMs. the problem is that most of the space is devoted to stuff that is legion specific and stuff marines already have so it FEELS like less. I mean, if you're playing Iron Warriors you don't really get anything from the Alpha Legion rules, and someone who plays Black Legion (like me) got mearly 5 new relics out of the book. so despite more pages of CSM stuff, it feels like less value.
No Brian - it is less.
PA 2 pages for all Marines - 10.
PA 2 pages for Black Templar's only - 12 (presumably, if your numbers are correct).
PA 2 pages for all CSM - 3. Much less than 10.
PA 2 pages for Night Lords (equivalent to Black Templars) only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for Alpha Legion only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for World Eaters only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for Emperors Children only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for Iron Warriors only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for Word Bearers only - much less than 12.
Equality here would be if each Legion had a supplement level release, just as Marines are getting, in the PA books (if they don't already have them, of course). Obviously this hasn't happened. There are even a significant number more global rules for Marines than CSM. It's insane.
Did I ever say they got equal billing? No I didn't. I've openly said that CSMs definatly feel like they got less due to the legion exclusivity of the bulk of their stuff. and noted that despite this, by pure page count, they technicly got more. but hey, you gotta pick a fight now doncha?
deTox91 wrote: Please please please PA book 4 don't be just a DA/GK codex with 3 stratagems and 3 relics for Thousand Sons, after the nerfs just received with CA we need something...
Honest question: Are you new to TS?
New-ish, why?
I am asking because the only nerf I saw with TS in CA2019 was to the demon princes which are only abused in nurgle/other csm funky competitive lists. Tzaangors still do what they do at 8pts, no change there.
And these two things are not enough of a nerf? Yeah they still do the job at 8 points but that still gives me less points to work with, 2 princes (that I believe we still need) and 30 tzaangors is already +60 points to the list, even counting the the drop on rubrics (8pts per 5 man) this is hard to offset! In a world where the average army now has 100-150 points more in their list.
The problem as I see is the TS army trait, it’s too good at filling a void in soup armies and give them access to great psychic support, while it doesn’t do that much I n a pure sons army as unless you play only HQs half or more of your models don’t have a chapter tactic at all.
If for example you had to have the Tzeentch keyword in your whole army to use it, no nerf would be needed.
I hate soup.
Did I ever say they got equal billing? No I didn't. I've openly said that CSMs definatly feel like they got less due to the legion exclusivity of the bulk of their stuff. and noted that despite this, by pure page count, they technicly got more. but hey, you gotta pick a fight now doncha?
The problem is when you make a statement like 'CSM have more pages in PA 2 than SM' or 'they FEEL like they got less because "muh Legion exclusivity" it implies, pretty obviously, that you're trying to justify the massive disparity between what each factions get.
Yes CSM got more PA 2 pages dedicated to them. This is not a relevant metric for anything though because unfortunately SM got another 7 books (codex + supplements) as well as a ton of this supplement dedicated to them. Which is obviously, vastly more overall content.
As to picking a fight - not really. I just want to hear you admit that SM have had way, way, WAY more than anyone else for the last 6 months or so (and hence why you can see that players of other factions might be irritated).
E - like when I have my Klan specific books and codex 2.0 I will gladly admit that we now have parity in terms of book releases. Unfortunately this seems unlikely to ever happen.
Mr Morden wrote: PA4 is going to to be the same as PA2 and PA3 - yet another Marine supplement in all but name - same as P5 but Wolves rather than Dark Angels
So 50% Dark Angels "Not Codex", 25% generic Marines Boosts, 13% Lore about Some form of Marines and 13% split between Grey Knights and Thousand Sons and maybe 4& on anythig non marine related.
Fun fact, I did a page count of PA2.
Pages devoted to Space Marines (including both the masters of the chapter stuff and the black templars stuff) 22. Of these ten pages are things ALL Marine players can use.
Pages devoted to CSM rules: 38(ok granted 6 or so of these are random name charts). Of these are 3 pages of stuff ALL CSM players can use.
So, PA2 actually devotes MORE Space to CSMs. the problem is that most of the space is devoted to stuff that is legion specific and stuff marines already have so it FEELS like less. I mean, if you're playing Iron Warriors you don't really get anything from the Alpha Legion rules, and someone who plays Black Legion (like me) got mearly 5 new relics out of the book. so despite more pages of CSM stuff, it feels like less value.
No Brian - it is less.
PA 2 pages for all Marines - 10.
PA 2 pages for Black Templar's only - 12 (presumably, if your numbers are correct).
PA 2 pages for all CSM - 3. Much less than 10.
PA 2 pages for Night Lords (equivalent to Black Templars) only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for Alpha Legion only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for World Eaters only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for Emperors Children only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for Iron Warriors only - much less than 12.
PA 2 pages for Word Bearers only - much less than 12.
Equality here would be if each Legion had a supplement level release, just as Marines are getting, in the PA books (if they don't already have them, of course). Obviously this hasn't happened. There are even a significant number more global rules for Marines than CSM. It's insane.
Did I ever say they got equal billing? No I didn't. I've openly said that CSMs definatly feel like they got less due to the legion exclusivity of the bulk of their stuff. and noted that despite this, by pure page count, they technicly got more. but hey, you gotta pick a fight now doncha?
Clarity - they do not FEEL like they got less - each sub faction of Chaos Space Marines ACTUALLY GOT less than each sub faction Marines - correct?
ALL Marines had just had a massive bost with Codex, and then they just had to cram in yet more boosts and rules into PA 2 because....
After watching the GMG review of Blood of Baal its practically a second blood angels supplement with a few pages of Tyranid stuff at the back. If you are only interested in the tyranid stuff...its quite expensive for what could have been a WD article.
Mephiston does look rather swanky, but a new plastic Lictor/deathleaper or even The Red Terror would have been an ideal release for this episode of Psychic Awakening.
ALL Marines had just had a massive bost with Codex, and then they just had to cram in yet more boosts and rules into PA 2 because....
Money.
The problem is that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Loyalist Marines get an overwhelming majority of releases on a constant tap. Inevitably, more people play Space Marines for this reason. If other factions received this level of support, we'd likely see them narrow the popularity gap a good deal more. Look at Fantasy , ways back when, and how there wasn't too much disparity between numbers. AoS comes out and Sigmarines serve as the posterboys for years and end up being the majority of lineups, however as GW pulled back from that and actually devoted sizable releases to other armies without making every other release a Sigmarine (barring one off Not-Lieutenants) there's been a good deal more diversity compared to 40k when 50% of battles are Marine vs Marine.
SamusDrake wrote: After watching the GMG review of Blood of Baal its practically a second blood angels supplement with a few pages of Tyranid stuff at the back. If you are only interested in the tyranid stuff...its quite expensive for what could have been a WD article.
Mephiston does look rather swanky, but a new plastic Lictor/deathleaper or even The Red Terror would have been an ideal release for this episode of Psychic Awakening.
This.
It's an absolute disgrace, really.
Pages dedicated to Blood Angels - 40.
Pages dedicated to Tyranids - 9.
GW are flipping the finger to Xenos players, at this point.
As a BA player in holiday season I could perhaps have asked for a BA codex/supplement as a gift but I dont want a PA book shared with tyranids so they are losing one sale here at least.
Its basically a BA codex/supplement yet not for some weird reason. It even has more datasheets and rules than the marine supplements and yet not a separate book for them. Instead of prolonging the supplement release cycle they just padded the PA cycle with a supplement + wd article.
Probably hoping to get those who want the whole PA set, those who would want a BA supplement and those desperate Tyranids players to all buy it for 3x the sales of just a BA supplement. Think they are shooting themselves in the foot though since none of the other BA players I have talked to have been interested in this book but would have been more interested in a pure BA book.
SamusDrake wrote: After watching the GMG review of Blood of Baal its practically a second blood angels supplement with a few pages of Tyranid stuff at the back. If you are only interested in the tyranid stuff...its quite expensive for what could have been a WD article.
Mephiston does look rather swanky, but a new plastic Lictor/deathleaper or even The Red Terror would have been an ideal release for this episode of Psychic Awakening.
This.
It's an absolute disgrace, really.
Pages dedicated to Blood Angels - 40.
Pages dedicated to Tyranids - 9.
GW are flipping the finger to Xenos players, at this point.
Did someone honestly expect that nids would get even a 3rd of content then SM?
Klickor wrote: As a BA player in holiday season I could perhaps have asked for a BA codex/supplement as a gift but I dont want a PA book shared with tyranids so they are losing one sale here at least.
Its basically a BA codex/supplement yet not for some weird reason. It even has more datasheets and rules than the marine supplements and yet not a separate book for them. Instead of prolonging the supplement release cycle they just padded the PA cycle with a supplement + wd article.
Probably hoping to get those who want the whole PA set, those who would want a BA supplement and those desperate Tyranids players to all buy it for 3x the sales of just a BA supplement. Think they are shooting themselves in the foot though since none of the other BA players I have talked to have been interested in this book but would have been more interested in a pure BA book.
Its definitely a Blood Angel book more than one for Nid players. The last few pages are basically "cough - Tyranids - cough" and the rest are all yours.
SamusDrake wrote: After watching the GMG review of Blood of Baal its practically a second blood angels supplement with a few pages of Tyranid stuff at the back. If you are only interested in the tyranid stuff...its quite expensive for what could have been a WD article.
Mephiston does look rather swanky, but a new plastic Lictor/deathleaper or even The Red Terror would have been an ideal release for this episode of Psychic Awakening.
This.
It's an absolute disgrace, really.
Pages dedicated to Blood Angels - 40.
Pages dedicated to Tyranids - 9.
GW are flipping the finger to Xenos players, at this point.
I dunno I think its a little easier to stomach supplements being rebranded as PA books than the alternative which would be just more marine supplements with the usual GW stamp of Imperial purity.
assuming 1 page of a data slate and 1 page of fluff for each phobos unit that's 20 pages. I can't see how english gentleman's page count of 40 works unless flesh tearers are getting a full supplement treatment in this book, with both blood angels and flesh tearers a page of relics, warlord traits etc each
even then with the most inflated guessing I can guess 40 pages seems like a exaggeration, (the most I could get it up to is 35)
can to ellaborate on this english gentleman? is it 40 or "nearly 40"?
as for tyranids, I can see 7 pages if they give each hive fleet one physic power only.
BrianDavion wrote: assuming 1 page of a data slate and 1 page of fluff for each phobos unit that's 20 pages. I can't see how english gentleman's page count of 40 works unless flesh tearers are getting a full supplement treatment in this book, with both blood angels and flesh tearers a page of relics, warlord traits etc each
even then with the most inflated guessing I can guess 40 pages seems like a exaggeration, (the most I could get it up to is 35)
can to ellaborate on this english gentleman? is it 40 or "nearly 40"?
as for tyranids, I can see 7 pages if they give each hive fleet one physic power only.
It's exactly 40.
Nids are exactly 9.
Both include name generators (for Nids?! Lol).
If you'd like more details I'd suggest watching a review of the book, as I did.
BrianDavion wrote: assuming 1 page of a data slate and 1 page of fluff for each phobos unit that's 20 pages. I can't see how english gentleman's page count of 40 works unless flesh tearers are getting a full supplement treatment in this book, with both blood angels and flesh tearers a page of relics, warlord traits etc each
even then with the most inflated guessing I can guess 40 pages seems like a exaggeration, (the most I could get it up to is 35)
can to ellaborate on this english gentleman? is it 40 or "nearly 40"?
as for tyranids, I can see 7 pages if they give each hive fleet one physic power only.
It's exactly 40.
Nids are exactly 9.
Both include name generators (for Nids?! Lol).
If you'd like more details I'd suggest watching a review of the book, as I did.
I can't stand video reviews, some guy slowly flipping the pages the camera often poorly in focus often babbling about gak I don't care about. I'd much rather read a written review, sadly those seem to be view and far in between as it's easier to just turn the camera on and run stream of thought for 20 minutes
As an ork player, I empathise a lot with the fellow nids. Blood of Baal is basically named after the BA. The PA book for orks, "Saga of the beast" already prefaces the outcome of "our" book. A tale told by the space puppies where they hunt ...orks.
BrianDavion wrote: assuming 1 page of a data slate and 1 page of fluff for each phobos unit that's 20 pages. I can't see how english gentleman's page count of 40 works unless flesh tearers are getting a full supplement treatment in this book, with both blood angels and flesh tearers a page of relics, warlord traits etc each
even then with the most inflated guessing I can guess 40 pages seems like a exaggeration, (the most I could get it up to is 35)
can to ellaborate on this english gentleman? is it 40 or "nearly 40"?
as for tyranids, I can see 7 pages if they give each hive fleet one physic power only.
It's exactly 40.
Nids are exactly 9.
Both include name generators (for Nids?! Lol).
If you'd like more details I'd suggest watching a review of the book, as I did.
I can't stand video reviews, some guy slowly flipping the pages the camera often poorly in focus often babbling about gak I don't care about. I'd much rather read a written review, sadly those seem to be view and far in between as it's easier to just turn the camera on and run stream of thought for 20 minutes
There's a site called Goonhammer that does lots of written reviews on this stuff. Idk if they're "Good" because I'm not a gamer. They do write a fair amount though.
BrianDavion wrote: assuming 1 page of a data slate and 1 page of fluff for each phobos unit that's 20 pages. I can't see how english gentleman's page count of 40 works unless flesh tearers are getting a full supplement treatment in this book, with both blood angels and flesh tearers a page of relics, warlord traits etc each
even then with the most inflated guessing I can guess 40 pages seems like a exaggeration, (the most I could get it up to is 35)
can to ellaborate on this english gentleman? is it 40 or "nearly 40"?
as for tyranids, I can see 7 pages if they give each hive fleet one physic power only.
It's exactly 40.
Nids are exactly 9.
Both include name generators (for Nids?! Lol).
If you'd like more details I'd suggest watching a review of the book, as I did.
I can't stand video reviews, some guy slowly flipping the pages the camera often poorly in focus often babbling about gak I don't care about. I'd much rather read a written review, sadly those seem to be view and far in between as it's easier to just turn the camera on and run stream of thought for 20 minutes
There's a site called Goonhammer that does lots of written reviews on this stuff. Idk if they're "Good" because I'm not a gamer. They do write a fair amount though.
SamusDrake wrote: After watching the GMG review of Blood of Baal its practically a second blood angels supplement with a few pages of Tyranid stuff at the back. If you are only interested in the tyranid stuff...its quite expensive for what could have been a WD article.
Mephiston does look rather swanky, but a new plastic Lictor/deathleaper or even The Red Terror would have been an ideal release for this episode of Psychic Awakening.
This.
It's an absolute disgrace, really.
Pages dedicated to Blood Angels - 40.
Pages dedicated to Tyranids - 9.
GW are flipping the finger to Xenos players, at this point.
Like 30 of those BA pages are updated datasheets and reprints of stuff from the last set of FAQs, it's not new rules for them.
As a Tyranid player I'm quite happy with what's in this book, there's a lot of new toys to try out.
Well, I am a little annoyed that I have to pay more money for my Blood Angels supplement than other Chapter players had to, but hey, free Tyranids expansion included! Most of the BA rules look pretty good. Definite very different than my Crimson Fists.
All this talk about quantity is missing the point IMHO. Give me quality anyday. Blood of the Phoenix was a good book for me because the Chapter Traits actually gave my army a significant boost, it's made me think about and change my army a little, and to consider some Aspects. That's a solid win.
bullyboy wrote: All this talk about quantity is missing the point IMHO. Give me quality anyday. Blood of the Phoenix was a good book for me because the Chapter Traits actually gave my army a significant boost, it's made me think about and change my army a little, and to consider some Aspects. That's a solid win.
It means that people saying “Blood Angels got forty thousand pages and tyranids only got a paragraph” and real stuff I’m not graciously paraphrasing should cease their shoddy line of argument and move on to discussing quality.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: "Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion". Except if you're Chaos or Black Templars, because you're only getting a generic Chaos Sorcerer.
Generic character > special character.
I wish Junith Eruita was just a generic character!
bullyboy wrote: dude, if any faction of Space Marines needs a new character model
Just a thought with Dark Angels, GK and TS being the main duders in the next book. The last time they were all involved with one another, Luther was freed and that plot line was kinda dropped.
With that in mind is it possible we might see a Dark Angels schism with Luther, possibly the Lion resurfacing and being their new character?
I wish they had made her a Ministorium Preacher. That way, they could be over the top, a named character, and have no reason not to be included in every Order. Like a gawdy Uriah Jacobus
Dudeface wrote: Just a thought with Dark Angels, GK and TS being the main duders in the next book. The last time they were all involved with one another, Luther was freed and that plot line was kinda dropped.
With that in mind is it possible we might see a Dark Angels schism with Luther, possibly the Lion resurfacing and being their new character?
Plus a big part of that was the Changeling, a Tzeentch demon, which could help tie the factions together (narratively speaking)
I wish they had made her a Ministorium Preacher. That way, they could be over the top, a named character, and have no reason not to be included in every Order. Like a gawdy Uriah Jacobus
But that's precisely the point, I don't want named characters, generic characters are better narratively speaking that even non-Order locked special characters.
I know the Fallen got "rules" in Vigilus Ablaze that helped you take an actual army of them with rhinos and sorcs and all, but there wasn't a lot there and you were still limited to a specialist detachment that, depending on your loadout, functionally you'd only get to about 1250 points if you were trying to build a Fallen army. Not to mention that the whole "Fallen are both Imperial and Chaos" thing has been nerfed or explicitly excluded more and more with every subsequent release.
Hopefully they'll get new rules in psychic awakening that'll make building a Fallen army more possible. Having a Luther model would definitely be cool, although I'd prefer to have more army-wide rules over getting a single new model.
some of the adaptions aren't too shabby and the review notes nothing stops you from putting it on a HQ instead of a WL trait eaither.
Dermic symbosis could be a pretty popular chocie. hmm do hive tyrants have invul saves?
It's... An odd thing. Still not a fan of updating books this way, but these are... Odd. Some of its fine, a few might be good. But I really don't like the strats. They read like 'pay a CP to make <unit> function as actually intended... For a turn'. Some of these should just be turned into updates.
Klickor wrote: As a BA player in holiday season I could perhaps have asked for a BA codex/supplement as a gift but I dont want a PA book shared with tyranids so they are losing one sale here at least.
Its basically a BA codex/supplement yet not for some weird reason. It even has more datasheets and rules than the marine supplements and yet not a separate book for them. Instead of prolonging the supplement release cycle they just padded the PA cycle with a supplement + wd article.
Probably hoping to get those who want the whole PA set, those who would want a BA supplement and those desperate Tyranids players to all buy it for 3x the sales of just a BA supplement. Think they are shooting themselves in the foot though since none of the other BA players I have talked to have been interested in this book but would have been more interested in a pure BA book.
Reading the rest of the topic, it's 9 pages for Nids. If this were a pure BA supplement that'd easily be the same general fluff that's been copy/pasta'd across a)every Marine book in the past b)every mention of Blood Angels for the past 4?5?6? Editions and c)is probably verbatim on numerous wiki entries and lore channels on youtube*.
I'd say Nid players should be more upset with their inclusion in the book than us BA ones.
*not 100% on the youtube vids, they'll intentionally mispronounce stuff to avoid copyright. That's definitely the only reason.
some of the adaptions aren't too shabby and the review notes nothing stops you from putting it on a HQ instead of a WL trait eaither.
Dermic symbosis could be a pretty popular chocie. hmm do hive tyrants have invul saves?
It's... An odd thing. Still not a fan of updating books this way, but these are... Odd. Some of its fine, a few might be good. But I really don't like the strats. They read like 'pay a CP to make <unit> function as actually intended... For a turn'. Some of these should just be turned into updates.
That sorta happened with the Space Marines v2 codex. They cleared up some of the pointless conditional rules like the Vindicator changing number of shots based on target unit size and just gave it more shots.
I'm hopeful that after 9E we'll see a Tyranids v2 codex with some of these rules (like the Toxicrene strat) absorbed into base unit rules and the bad old strats thrown away.
I personally am stoked to get BA brought into line with the rest of their marine cousins with Doctrines and Litanites.
I've also heard a rumor (completely unverified) that the Red Thirst rule will be amended in Chapter Approved to give Blood Angels a +1 to wound in addition to a +1 to charge and advance rolls.
If true, coupled with the Canticle of Hate (+2 to charge rolls) litany from a Chaplain, you could deepstrike or Upon Wings of Fire stratagem re-deploy a squad of Death Company further than 9" away and with the Litany and Red Thirst bonus, be able to make it within an inch of your target(s) on a charge roll of 6+.
I think, just for the funsies, I wanna turn my unpainted Intercessors into Death Company. Back them with my unpainted Scouts.Then add in a Radical Inquisitor.
Red__Thirst wrote: I personally am stoked to get BA brought into line with the rest of their marine cousins with Doctrines and Litanites.
I've also heard a rumor (completely unverified) that the Red Thirst rule will be amended in Chapter Approved to give Blood Angels a +1 to wound in addition to a +1 to charge and advance rolls.
If true, coupled with the Canticle of Hate (+2 to charge rolls) litany from a Chaplain, you could deepstrike or Upon Wings of Fire stratagem re-deploy a squad of Death Company further than 9" away and with the Litany and Red Thirst bonus, be able to make it within an inch of your target(s) on a charge roll of 6+.
Me likey. Me likey a lot.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
Nothing to do with Chapter Approved, but thats what Red Thirst does now.
Red__Thirst wrote: I personally am stoked to get BA brought into line with the rest of their marine cousins with Doctrines and Litanites.
I've also heard a rumor (completely unverified) that the Red Thirst rule will be amended in Chapter Approved to give Blood Angels a +1 to wound in addition to a +1 to charge and advance rolls.
If true, coupled with the Canticle of Hate (+2 to charge rolls) litany from a Chaplain, you could deepstrike or Upon Wings of Fire stratagem re-deploy a squad of Death Company further than 9" away and with the Litany and Red Thirst bonus, be able to make it within an inch of your target(s) on a charge roll of 6+.
Me likey. Me likey a lot.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
Red Thirst is already +1 to wound and +1 advance/charge
On the other hand, the Chaplain Canticle doesn't stack with any other charge bonuses from Chapter Traits, Warlord Traits, Stratagems, Psychic Powers, etc..
I'm looking at my copy of Phoenix Rising. I'm reading my pages for Dark Eldar. My mind wanders to what other factions are getting, and I sigh. Once again, we are left holding only wrapping paper; filled with a broken promise and shattered dreams.
Right now, I can feel the anguish of the Tyranid players as they look upon the Blood of Baal. I can't help but envy them their paltry offering, despite the sympathy I feel. Oh, what I would give for one stratagem or a relic. It doesn't have to be both.
I hear a Space Marine player lament something, but I can't listen. I can't bring myself to be jealous, even, of the shining pile of gifts they have received. It is their lot, as the chosen, to be granted such lavish attention and then cry for more. I will turn away lest they see my face and call for the purging of my army once more.
So it is, with these thoughts in hand, I open a review of chapter approved. After listening to the points reductions for other armies, I learn that our only vehicle is to be increased in price. With a heavy heart, I shut off the stream and glance at my ravagers, already discarded after earlier rounds of weakening before this price rise. It seems their time is done and Venoms are all that are left to us now.
Next time, that fragile hope whispers in my heart, next time they'll remember you.
I hear a Space Marine player lament something, but I can't listen. I can't bring myself to be jealous, even, of the shining pile of gifts they have received. It is their lot, as the chosen, to be granted such lavish attention and then cry for more. I will turn away lest they see my face and call for the purging of my army once more.
... what space marine players have cried for more?
AlmightyWalrus wrote: "Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion". Except if you're Chaos or Black Templars, because you're only getting a generic Chaos Sorcerer.
Generic character > special character.
I wish Junith Eruita was just a generic character!
What's funny is that when Vigilus Burns came out many (including myself) chaos players were annoyed that the jump pack chaos lord was a Black Legion specific unit and not just a jump pack chaos lord.
Drager wrote: I'm looking at my copy of Phoenix Rising. I'm reading my pages for Dark Eldar. My mind wanders to what other factions are getting, and I sigh. Once again, we are left holding only wrapping paper; filled with a broken promise and shattered dreams.
Right now, I can feel the anguish of the Tyranid players as they look upon the Blood of Baal. I can't help but envy them their paltry offering, despite the sympathy I feel. Oh, what I would give for one stratagem or a relic. It doesn't have to be both.
I hear a Space Marine player lament something, but I can't listen. I can't bring myself to be jealous, even, of the shining pile of gifts they have received. It is their lot, as the chosen, to be granted such lavish attention and then cry for more. I will turn away lest they see my face and call for the purging of my army once more.
So it is, with these thoughts in hand, I open a review of chapter approved. After listening to the points reductions for other armies, I learn that our only vehicle is to be increased in price. With a heavy heart, I shut off the stream and glance at my ravagers, already discarded after earlier rounds of weakening before this price rise. It seems their time is done and Venoms are all that are left to us now.
Next time, that fragile hope whispers in my heart, next time they'll remember you.
Drager wrote: I'm looking at my copy of Phoenix Rising. I'm reading my pages for Dark Eldar. My mind wanders to what other factions are getting, and I sigh. Once again, we are left holding only wrapping paper; filled with a broken promise and shattered dreams.
Right now, I can feel the anguish of the Tyranid players as they look upon the Blood of Baal. I can't help but envy them their paltry offering, despite the sympathy I feel. Oh, what I would give for one stratagem or a relic. It doesn't have to be both.
I hear a Space Marine player lament something, but I can't listen. I can't bring myself to be jealous, even, of the shining pile of gifts they have received. It is their lot, as the chosen, to be granted such lavish attention and then cry for more. I will turn away lest they see my face and call for the purging of my army once more.
So it is, with these thoughts in hand, I open a review of chapter approved. After listening to the points reductions for other armies, I learn that our only vehicle is to be increased in price. With a heavy heart, I shut off the stream and glance at my ravagers, already discarded after earlier rounds of weakening before this price rise. It seems their time is done and Venoms are all that are left to us now.
Next time, that fragile hope whispers in my heart, next time they'll remember you.
So apologies if this is known/debunked/whatever, as I haven't following events, but is there/has there been any rumours of a new Eldar Avatar coming?
I noticed on the GW site a bit of art with the avatar fighting marines and didn't recognise it. Its almost identical to the FW avatar, but not exact. And we all know how GW are with their art-match-model nonsense these days.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: "Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion". Except if you're Chaos or Black Templars, because you're only getting a generic Chaos Sorcerer.
Generic character > special character.
I wish Junith Eruita was just a generic character!
What's funny is that when Vigilus Burns came out many (including myself) chaos players were annoyed that the jump pack chaos lord was a Black Legion specific unit and not just a jump pack chaos lord.
I'm not sure what's funny about it, but I 100% agree with your sentiment.
Snrub wrote: So apologies if this is known/debunked/whatever, as I haven't following events, but is there/has there been any rumours of a new Eldar Avatar coming?
I noticed on the GW site a bit of art with the avatar fighting marines and didn't recognise it. Its almost identical to the FW avatar, but not exact. And we all know how GW are with their art-match-model nonsense these days.
Despite what experts on the internet say, GW are kinda lax about it. There are plenty of examples of recent artwork that aren't of miniatures. I would like a new avatar mini though.
They'll probably start updating the Eldar range from resin next year, much like they did Chaos this year. Kill Team is also long over due for a Craftworld faction boxset...
Expanding Codex: Harliquins to Codex: Ynnari would be a good move by Games Workshop to launch that range, because the Psychic Awakening series is not going to remain in print for as long as the codex books, and players will be back to square one asking "which codex do I need for a Ynnari army?". The Harliquins make for a good Kill Team, but sorely lacking as a 40K army needing to borrow units from the Craftworlds and Drukhari for any serious muscle. Unless one loves painting the same models over-and-over again, the Harliquins don't really go much further than a patrol detachment...
I hear a Space Marine player lament something, but I can't listen. I can't bring myself to be jealous, even, of the shining pile of gifts they have received. It is their lot, as the chosen, to be granted such lavish attention and then cry for more. I will turn away lest they see my face and call for the purging of my army once more.
... what space marine players have cried for more?
A myriad of Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Wolves when the other endless flood of marine updates came out - "where is ours!" ad nauseum.
Others asking for more new Marines,
new Primaris Marines
New Marines
After all having a vast bloated range, always being added to by GW and FW is not nearly enough.
New Dark Angel character (model, not rules), new Space Wolf character (model, not, rules). As a Deathwatch player too, I'm good with models, just give us access to a Vanguard kill team.
However, despite what people decry, these are not unreasonable requests. Azrael and Ezekiel both hark back to 2nd edition. Of the 2, Azrael needs the update most simply because he is tiny. I would prefer Ezekiel myself as many people have just converted Azrael out of the new DA Lt.
I hear a Space Marine player lament something, but I can't listen. I can't bring myself to be jealous, even, of the shining pile of gifts they have received. It is their lot, as the chosen, to be granted such lavish attention and then cry for more. I will turn away lest they see my face and call for the purging of my army once more.
... what space marine players have cried for more?
A myriad of Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Wolves when the other endless flood of marine updates came out - "where is ours!" ad nauseum.
Others asking for more new Marines,
new Primaris Marines
New Marines
After all having a vast bloated range, always being added to by GW and FW is not nearly enough.
Oh give me a break! We are paying for the continued existence of all of your armies and GW as a whole. You should be gratefull GW throws a bone to you plebs once in a while. And unlike some GK players you haven't seem me complaint about Dark Angels being the worst army of the game for more than 1 year now. (Yes, GK and Tyranids have more winrate than DA)
I hear a Space Marine player lament something, but I can't listen. I can't bring myself to be jealous, even, of the shining pile of gifts they have received. It is their lot, as the chosen, to be granted such lavish attention and then cry for more. I will turn away lest they see my face and call for the purging of my army once more.
... what space marine players have cried for more?
A myriad of Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Wolves when the other endless flood of marine updates came out - "where is ours!" ad nauseum.
Others asking for more new Marines,
new Primaris Marines
New Marines
After all having a vast bloated range, always being added to by GW and FW is not nearly enough.
Oh give me a break! We are paying for the continued existence of all of your armies and GW as a whole. You should be gratefull GW throws a bone to you plebs once in a while.
you see, if GW would actually invest sometimes in factions with units older then you are probably then GW wouldn't need to have so many SM kits to carry them...
Galas wrote: We are paying for the continued existence of all of your armies and GW as a whole.
You are paying for the models you want to pay for.
I mean, GW could have been paid for by selling more SoB boxes if they had made more.
Galas wrote: And unlike some GK players you haven't seem me complaint about Dark Angels being the worst army of the game for more than 1 year now. (Yes, GK and Tyranids have more winrate than DA)
I see you doing it right now!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Primaris Knight. Get it going, Cawl, we need betterer more dakkaer more stronger more durabler imperial knights!!!
I hear a Space Marine player lament something, but I can't listen. I can't bring myself to be jealous, even, of the shining pile of gifts they have received. It is their lot, as the chosen, to be granted such lavish attention and then cry for more. I will turn away lest they see my face and call for the purging of my army once more.
... what space marine players have cried for more?
Queue David Attenborough voice.
You have a few common flavors of marine complainer:
Spoiler:
1.Primaris haters: These guys come in a few different sub-flavors varying from "all stunty marines are going to get squatted" to "Primaris ruin the look of normal marines" to "I hate that primaris don't come in a specific flavor(melee being the most common) Basically, the guys who hate Primaris well beyond "eh I don't care for them"
2. My Codex/Supplement isn't good enough: These guys vary even more than the primaris haters do. Bolter Envy over another chapter's supplement, not liking their optimal build for any number of reasons, (pre-supplements) wanting to get their codex first and not have to deal with it becoming outdated, and a relatively new form "I don't like how these point drops are scaling up the game so let's advocate for smaller game sizes despite not all armies increasing in size." The primaris haters usually overlap heavily with these guys if their optimal build involves any Primaris.
3. My Codex/Supplement is too good: First let me be clear, these aren't the guys saying marines were overbuffed and need nerfs. These are the guys who hate the reputation marines are getting and will do anything in their power to fight that reputation without actually nerfing their marines. "Don't worry other armies will get their 2.0 codices soon!" "It's not (their chapter) that's overperforming it's _______." Marine apologists etc all fall under this category
4. Fake it til you make it. Players who advocate for changes in other armies without any clue as to how the army/unit/model they want to change works. While not uniquely a marine player trait, it's usually a marine player doing it. Removing the FNP from Shield drones is a good recent example. "Grots are broken, not the ablative wound mechanic they fuel" is another one from the CA rumors. "Armies with cheap troops are broken cause they have more CP" without addressing that different armies require different amounts of CP to function is typically a marine argument.
Hopefully this should help cover most of them for you. A lot of them have generic versions that come out of players from every army, but these are probably the most relevant without calling out people by naming them directly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: If we are wishlisting, I'd settle for non-primaris models that don't come in a boxset.
Primaris Knight. Get it going, Cawl, we need betterer more dakkaer more stronger more durabler imperial knights!!!
Would they be inexplicably naive? Would they be shunned by Knightlet pilots due to suspicion or jealousy? I like the idea of Primariknights but we'd really have to cuck them in some way to avoid upsetting Knightlet players too much. Simply upscaling Knights and telling Knightlet players that Knights look like this now would be very foolish.
I don't want primaris anything. Just give me a useful legion trait, give csm chosen stats, and give my fething hellforged super heavys sane fething points costs. A fellblade doesn't equal over 2 baneblades.
Gadzilla666 wrote: I don't want primaris anything. Just give me a useful legion trait, give csm chosen stats, and give my fething hellforged super heavys sane fething points costs. A fellblade doesn't equal over 2 baneblades.
Cool to know that a Salamanders player who points out that they have a sub-50% win rate is just an apologist. "Anyone who does not agree with my premise is an apologist" is a pretty silly statement to make, and yet here we are.
you see, if GW would actually invest sometimes in factions with units older then you are probably then GW wouldn't need to have so many SM kits to carry them...
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Cool to know that a Salamanders player who points out that they have a sub-50% win rate is just an apologist. "Anyone who does not agree with my premise is an apologist" is a pretty silly statement to make, and yet here we are.
Is that against non-astartes factions or is that overall? If that winrate is including losses against non-Salamander astartes supplements, the Salamanders player could simply be bad at math or understanding what the statistical data actually represents.
Overall excluding mirror matches. You're still making the assumption that the only correct and acceptable answer is that all Space Marine Chapters are OP and that any other conclusion is worthy of ridicule or mockery.
It's entirely possible that the only thing holding Salamanders back is that they're bad at fighting other Marines. It's also entirely possible that this is true for a bunch of other armies. There's no reason why Salamanders players should be called apologists for this other than people who are angry at Marines in general and bad at methodology.
There is also the possibility that the numbers for Salamanders are warped because any salamanders force can count as any other chapter without changing anything.
This phenomena could be observed when DA dropped below GK in win%, despite having almost everything any other chapter had, which were sitting safe and sound above GK.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Overall excluding mirror matches. You're still making the assumption that the only correct and acceptable answer is that all Space Marine Chapters are OP and that any other conclusion is worthy of ridicule or mockery.
It's entirely possible that the only thing holding Salamanders back is that they're bad at fighting other Marines. It's also entirely possible that this is true for a bunch of other armies. There's no reason why Salamanders players should be called apologists for this other than people who are angry at Marines in general and bad at methodology.
Except that data does exist for other armies. For example, Tau do very well against marines overall (50+%) but are astronomically terrible against Eldar. (sub 40%) I haven't found any data that breaks down all the subfaction matchups, but that's entirely my point on how a sub-50% winrate for Salamanders doesn't mean much if 25% or more of the field is marines and they are bad against other astartes.
You're not wrong, but it's only ever Marines that have to take that into account. You don't see people going "oh, Nids are fine, they just get countered by the current meta". The meta is what we have to compare against; if we remove the other Astartes Chapters and leave Salamanders we're not just changing Salamanders but everyone else as well.
I think salamanders suffer from being in the last batch of supplements so not that many have played them and if you are just a marine player and not specificaly a Salamander player entering a competetive event you are probably gonna pick the over performers first so IH or IF. Left you are with the more "fluffy" or true Salamander players who care more about playing Salamanders than winning and maybe even underperform their supplement.
Salamanders, Ultra Marines and Raven Guard might all be better than the winrate show because you are more likely to have the better players play the better chapters and skew the results. The worst of the marine chapters is probably always gonna have this problem with showing slightly worse result than they would have if they were the only marine chapter available. So if its only a low(1-2) single digit below 50% against non astartes it probably is extremely well balanced. When it gets below that then it might cause concern.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: "Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion". Except if you're Chaos or Black Templars, because you're only getting a generic Chaos Sorcerer.
Generic character > special character.
I wish Junith Eruita was just a generic character!
What's funny is that when Vigilus Burns came out many (including myself) chaos players were annoyed that the jump pack chaos lord was a Black Legion specific unit and not just a jump pack chaos lord.
I'm not sure what's funny about it, but I 100% agree with your sentiment.
And that not only was said Lord for Black Legion but they could've done ONE thing to make him slightly more viable (USE THE fething SPEAR IN MELEE HOLY gak) and instead decided that a Lord using a multidamage weapon in melee with no penalties is too broken against precious Calgar.
I hear a Space Marine player lament something, but I can't listen. I can't bring myself to be jealous, even, of the shining pile of gifts they have received. It is their lot, as the chosen, to be granted such lavish attention and then cry for more. I will turn away lest they see my face and call for the purging of my army once more.
... what space marine players have cried for more?
A myriad of Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Wolves when the other endless flood of marine updates came out - "where is ours!" ad nauseum.
Others asking for more new Marines,
new Primaris Marines
New Marines
After all having a vast bloated range, always being added to by GW and FW is not nearly enough.
Oh give me a break! We are paying for the continued existence of all of your armies and GW as a whole. You should be gratefull GW throws a bone to you plebs once in a while. And unlike some GK players you haven't seem me complaint about Dark Angels being the worst army of the game for more than 1 year now. (Yes, GK and Tyranids have more winrate than DA)
Sighs and shakes head - for the hundreth time I am a Fething Marine player - must add to sig.
I hear a Space Marine player lament something, but I can't listen. I can't bring myself to be jealous, even, of the shining pile of gifts they have received. It is their lot, as the chosen, to be granted such lavish attention and then cry for more. I will turn away lest they see my face and call for the purging of my army once more.
... what space marine players have cried for more?
A myriad of Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Wolves when the other endless flood of marine updates came out - "where is ours!" ad nauseum.
Others asking for more new Marines,
new Primaris Marines
New Marines
After all having a vast bloated range, always being added to by GW and FW is not nearly enough.
Oh give me a break! We are paying for the continued existence of all of your armies and GW as a whole. You should be gratefull GW throws a bone to you plebs once in a while. And unlike some GK players you haven't seem me complaint about Dark Angels being the worst army of the game for more than 1 year now. (Yes, GK and Tyranids have more winrate than DA)
Sighs and shakes head - for the hundreth time I am a Fething Marine player - must add to sig.
Maybe we should avoid letting someone yet again sidetrack this post with "HOW DARE AN ARMY WITH POWER ARMOR GET ANY UPDATES"?
Just wondering if "Saga of the Beast" could be another stab at Armageddon if they are working on a new Ghazgkull model. Traditionally he faces off against Yarrick.
I hear a Space Marine player lament something, but I can't listen. I can't bring myself to be jealous, even, of the shining pile of gifts they have received. It is their lot, as the chosen, to be granted such lavish attention and then cry for more. I will turn away lest they see my face and call for the purging of my army once more.
... what space marine players have cried for more?
A myriad of Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Wolves when the other endless flood of marine updates came out - "where is ours!" ad nauseum.
Others asking for more new Marines,
new Primaris Marines
New Marines
After all having a vast bloated range, always being added to by GW and FW is not nearly enough.
Oh give me a break! We are paying for the continued existence of all of your armies and GW as a whole. You should be gratefull GW throws a bone to you plebs once in a while. And unlike some GK players you haven't seem me complaint about Dark Angels being the worst army of the game for more than 1 year now. (Yes, GK and Tyranids have more winrate than DA)
Sighs and shakes head - for the hundreth time I am a Fething Marine player - must add to sig.
Maybe we should avoid letting someone yet again sidetrack this post with "HOW DARE AN ARMY WITH POWER ARMOR GET ANY UPDATES"?
"Sigh" looks at my reply - wonders how people fail to read or comprehend it or that it was an response to others question.
The PA aweakening books are a bizare series of so called "campaign books" - where the story seems not to matter in any way and takes up little of hte actual book, the current one and apparently the next few are just Space Marine sub factions Suppements with some other stuff thrown in to pad it out a bit.
Couldn;t each have been three books so PA2 would have been - The Blood Angels Supplement, a Hive Fleet Supplement (YES a non Marine supplement) and the lore book. same with the first one. 1 model each for the two primary factions.
"Sigh" looks at my reply - wonders how people fail to read or comprehend it or that it was an response to others question.
.
At this point it hardly matters. Just avoid the topic in N&R threads, please.
It'd be nice to have spam free N&R threads, and responding is exactly as bad as raising the topic in the first place- neither post matters at all to the rest of us..
AlmightyWalrus wrote: You're not wrong, but it's only ever Marines that have to take that into account. You don't see people going "oh, Nids are fine, they just get countered by the current meta". The meta is what we have to compare against; if we remove the other Astartes Chapters and leave Salamanders we're not just changing Salamanders but everyone else as well.
Not only have I seen that before, I've frequently seen it from *Nids players*. A year ago, I heard many, many times, "Nids aren't bad, they're just hard-countered by IK!". Rest assured, that still exists.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: You're not wrong, but it's only ever Marines that have to take that into account. You don't see people going "oh, Nids are fine, they just get countered by the current meta". The meta is what we have to compare against; if we remove the other Astartes Chapters and leave Salamanders we're not just changing Salamanders but everyone else as well.
Not only have I seen that before, I've frequently seen it from *Nids players*. A year ago, I heard many, many times, "Nids aren't bad, they're just hard-countered by IK!". Rest assured, that still exists.
Well one year ago that was true. Nids were going quite decently as a faction, no longer top tier after the triple nerf on tyrants, but still snatching results here and there.
Then IK happened and we all know how nids cope with them, and how it ended.
This series has the worst collectors editions produced by GW I think ever. There is nothing at all extra in them. The few pieces of fiction are mostly available on community for free. The cover isn’t really any different. I don’t get it at all. They aren’t even trying.
honestly it'd be pretty gakky of them to produce a campaign/setting/lore book and make important details only apper in the limited edition one. that'd drive me crazy. I'd rather they limit that stuff to art etc.
BrianDavion wrote: honestly it'd be pretty gakky of them to produce a campaign/setting/lore book and make important details only apper in the limited edition one. that'd drive me crazy. I'd rather they limit that stuff to art etc.
Agreed. Maybe some thematic dice or a purity seal placeholder would be cool, but locking extra content like lore or rules behind a paywall is lame. It feels like day 1 DLC.
Knockagh wrote: This series has the worst collectors editions produced by GW I think ever. There is nothing at all extra in them. The few pieces of fiction are mostly available on community for free. The cover isn’t really any different. I don’t get it at all. They aren’t even trying.
It's so that everyone can easily identify the untermensch who didn't pay more for the special edition.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote: honestly it'd be pretty gakky of them to produce a campaign/setting/lore book and make important details only apper in the limited edition one. that'd drive me crazy. I'd rather they limit that stuff to art etc.
Knockagh wrote: This series has the worst collectors editions produced by GW I think ever. There is nothing at all extra in them. The few pieces of fiction are mostly available on community for free. The cover isn’t really any different. I don’t get it at all. They aren’t even trying.
It's so that everyone can easily identify the untermensch who didn't pay more for the special edition.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote: honestly it'd be pretty gakky of them to produce a campaign/setting/lore book and make important details only apper in the limited edition one. that'd drive me crazy. I'd rather they limit that stuff to art etc.
BrianDavion wrote: honestly it'd be pretty gakky of them to produce a campaign/setting/lore book and make important details only apper in the limited edition one. that'd drive me crazy. I'd rather they limit that stuff to art etc.
Most of the PA fiction on Warhammer Community isn't really 'lore' though. It's just stories with no real impact on wider events which don't tell you anything you wouldn't already know about the setting in general. That kind of thing seems fine to keep exclusive to an optional book.
Knockagh wrote: This series has the worst collectors editions produced by GW I think ever. There is nothing at all extra in them. The few pieces of fiction are mostly available on community for free. The cover isn’t really any different. I don’t get it at all. They aren’t even trying.
Seems to sum up PA - lackluster stuff for the Eldar, two more Marine supplements not even disguised as a campagn book and a few bits and pieces for others. Same pattern seems to be the same for nex few - yet more Supplements for Marines - Dark Angels and Wolves.
I look back at Sheild of Baal and this seems very very bad.
Would rather not be a "Collectors Edition" at all... Just make a normal one with the super nice cover/lore, then make a stripped down and Rules Only Version like they did for the BrB and the AoSBrB. A Gamer edition.
Then have all the Peripheral stuff you could order (Dice, markers, cards) separate. Would be nice if those had a period of time where orders could come in and you're guaranteed the product (even if they have to do another run of it), instead of spamming the online store for some 15 dollar BB Dice that go for 40+ on eBay ..
Knockagh wrote: This series has the worst collectors editions produced by GW I think ever. There is nothing at all extra in them. The few pieces of fiction are mostly available on community for free. The cover isn’t really any different. I don’t get it at all. They aren’t even trying.
Seems to sum up PA - lackluster stuff for the Eldar, two more Marine supplements not even disguised as a campagn book and a few bits and pieces for others. Same pattern seems to be the same for nex few - yet more Supplements for Marines - Dark Angels and Wolves.
I look back at Sheild of Baal and this seems very very bad.
BrianDavion wrote: honestly it'd be pretty gakky of them to produce a campaign/setting/lore book and make important details only apper in the limited edition one. that'd drive me crazy. I'd rather they limit that stuff to art etc.
Most of the PA fiction on Warhammer Community isn't really 'lore' though. It's just stories with no real impact on wider events which don't tell you anything you wouldn't already know about the setting in general. That kind of thing seems fine to keep exclusive to an optional book.
right I'm not talking the short stores in the CE because thats what we've got, I'm talking about them including ohh I dunno, a page of actual lore unavaliable elsewhere
Particularly given what is already included. There were only 16 pages of lore in PA II. The collector's edition doubles that to 32, minus the few upon which the free short stories on WHC were printed. It's one thing adding a free short story to the end of a 250+ page limited edition novel, another thing entirely to add an entirely self-contained narrative to a campaign book that barely had any lore in it to begin with.
Voss wrote: I'm not clear why. Some people care about fluff, they shouldn't be charged extra for wanting it.
What's your reasoning there? Why shouldn't people who like 'fluff' pay for the content they enjoy? Do you think novels should be given away for free?
Yeah if they did a normal priced one with the fluff and such in and the cool cover I’d buy that, and then a cheaper one that’s stripped back to just rules would be a great idea for people who just want that. I’d say this is a much better way of doing it than the current way of sticking a nicer texture on the cover and selling it for double(!!!) the normal book’s price.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I doubt that's viable giving the costs involved in book printing.
too many costs are involved, it is actually sometimes cheaper(for all involved)to do a print run of 1(longer page ct) combined book rather than 2 separate books.
just make the rules only version a digital download, nothing wrong with then just printing it out(whats relevant) at home.
except that doing a rules only version would require them to do a new outlay for the book etc. which is additional costs. So why should GW incurr additional costs all so a handfull of people can save 5 bucks or so?
Voss wrote: I'm not clear why. Some people care about fluff, they shouldn't be charged extra for wanting it.
What's your reasoning there? Why shouldn't people who like 'fluff' pay for the content they enjoy? Do you think novels should be given away for free?
I didn't say they shouldn't pay for the book or that books should be given away for free. That's an absurd stretch to the point of not even being an argument.
Its pretty simple:
The PA books are $40. An extra $40 for the 'special edition.'
What I'm arguing is all the content should be in the $40 version. No one who likes fluff should be paying an extra $40 for a couple short stories, and adding 'exclusive content' to a special edition would be exactly that, which is what Knockagh said in the first place- that they were obligated to add exclusive content to the special edition, including fiction.
GW's special editions are really straightforward. They get the publisher to print X hundred copies with a different cover and maybe a couple other bells and whistles like ribbons and gilded edges. This costs them slightly more, and they double the cost of the book for it. That's nice and all for people that want fancier looking books, but I draw a definite line at adding game and background content to things they're 'justified' at doubling the price on.
The only new rumours that i've heard, from someone that is usually "on the money" is as follows;
The new model for the DA is a brand new character not previously seen before.
The character release for the Sage of the Beast book is an "enormous" release in terms of game impact. It is apparently one that "people have been guessing at" for a long time now. Which furry SW character could that be, i guess?
Still not 100% sure on who will be vs the T'au in their book, but, as the characters getting released have mainly been Marines so far, i feel like it will probably be Deathwatch, with them also getting their first named Primaris character.
The character release for the Sage of the Beast book is an "enormous" release in terms of game impact. It is apparently one that "people have been guessing at" for a long time now. Which furry SW character could that be, i guess?
Ragnar is the alleged SW release.
Ghazghkull is the “enormous” release that “people have been guessing at” for a long time now. Obviously.
The character release for the Sage of the Beast book is an "enormous" release in terms of game impact. It is apparently one that "people have been guessing at" for a long time now. Which furry SW character could that be, i guess?
Ragnar is the alleged SW release.
Ghazghkull is the “enormous” release that “people have been guessing at” for a long time now. Obviously.
Whilst i hope Ghaz gets an update at the same time, i've been led to believe the "enormous" one is -the- SW Character. Whether or not Ragnar also gets a Primaris update at the same time, i have no idea.
The new model for the DA is a brand new character not previously seen before.
I'm gonna take a guess that it'll be Captian Lazerius, GW took the effort to set him up specificly in white dwarf awhile back and Dark angels notably lack a battle company captain character
The character release for the Sage of the Beast book is an "enormous" release in terms of game impact. It is apparently one that "people have been guessing at" for a long time now. Which furry SW character could that be, i guess?
Ragnar is the alleged SW release.
Ghazghkull is the “enormous” release that “people have been guessing at” for a long time now. Obviously.
Whilst i hope Ghaz gets an update at the same time, i've been led to believe the "enormous" one is -the- SW Character. Whether or not Ragnar also gets a Primaris update at the same time, i have no idea.
I didn't think people have been guessing at Russ for a long time though? Which is surely the only SW character worthy of such bold statements?
Or is it tongue in cheek and the character is new one; 'Wolfborn Coldglass Frostspite' of the Iced Fangs chapter?
The character release for the Sage of the Beast book is an "enormous" release in terms of game impact. It is apparently one that "people have been guessing at" for a long time now. Which furry SW character could that be, i guess?
Ragnar is the alleged SW release.
Ghazghkull is the “enormous” release that “people have been guessing at” for a long time now. Obviously.
Whilst i hope Ghaz gets an update at the same time, i've been led to believe the "enormous" one is -the- SW Character. Whether or not Ragnar also gets a Primaris update at the same time, i have no idea.
I didn't think people have been guessing at Russ for a long time though? Which is surely the only SW character worthy of such bold statements?
Or is it tongue in cheek and the character is new one; 'Wolfborn Coldglass Frostspite' of the Iced Fangs chapter?
People have been guessing at Russ for a while now, especially after Guiliman returned. Odin style Russ has been talked about endlessly. However, I have no idea whether GW will go down that route. It’s also been drawing inspiration from some of the Dark Imperium setting novels, especially the Ashes of Prospero and the return of parts of the 13th Company and Magnus hinting to the Wolves where Russ might actually be.
But yes, Russ is what has been implied to be the big character release.
Whilst I am pretty optimistic on this being the case, it is still the case that it is what has been said to me by someone I trust, though beyond that, I’ve seen nothing.
The new model for the DA is a brand new character not previously seen before.
I'm gonna take a guess that it'll be Captian Lazerius, GW took the effort to set him up specificly in white dwarf awhile back and Dark angels notably lack a battle company captain character
Not heard of him, and to be fair i miss a fair few of the WDs. I take it he is just a standard Company Captain style character?
Malika2 wrote: I haven't noticed the promised giant ever changing impact of Psychic Awakening on the 40k background yet. Can anyone share some updates on that?
I think there were a few bits and pieces in the Eldar one but as they are just Marine Supplements prenteding to be Campaign packs its less likely - although Vigilis (which surprise surprise, was also vastly focussed on various different kinds of Marines) also had very little of note in terms of impact on the background lore.
Matching with the name of the release, saga of the beast could of course finally be Ghazkull becoming primarch sized (putting him on roboute and abadon scale) and leman russ coming back at the same time.
GW will not of course actually do something that epic but you never know.
This Psychic Awakening thing is being rather underwhelming so far...
In terms of "story" or lore all I have read in these books has been basically "nothing happens" "we already knew that", and similar... Fortunately I could read all without having to buy the books. I cannot see the impact or interest or "epic scale like the Horus Heresy" anywhere in the books, and certainly, not in the companion scarce models released. The only one marginally interesting was the first boxset with Jain Zar, Drahzar and co., and was very expensive and new models together with ancient ones or much less interesting ones, that made that box uninteresting.
And they announce that every next book only will have 1 new model each? And with high chances of them all being yet again, Primarines and Primarines characters?
If at least they would include a new model for each faction in the books could be marginally more interesting (at least to have something for everybody). As it is is pretty boring and underwhelming... On the bright side, I guess I'll continue to be saving a lot of money
Warpspy wrote: This Psychic Awakening thing is being rather underwhelming so far...
In terms of "story" or lore all I have read in these books has been basically "nothing happens" "we already knew that", and similar... Fortunately I could read all without having to buy the books. I cannot see the impact or interest or "epic scale like the Horus Heresy" anywhere in the books, and certainly, not in the companion scarce models released. The only one marginally interesting was the first boxset with Jain Zar, Drahzar and co., and was very expensive and new models together with ancient ones or much less interesting ones, that made that box uninteresting.
And they announce that every next book only will have 1 new model each? And with high chances of them all being yet again, Primarines and Primarines characters?
If at least they would include a new model for each faction in the books could be marginally more interesting (at least to have something for everybody). As it is is pretty boring and underwhelming... On the bright side, I guess I'll continue to be saving a lot of money
I agree. I find myself fairly underwhelmed from what we've seen from the releases so far. Hopefully they plan on ramping up the releases of the supplements if the content is as lacklustre as we've seen. Either that, or there is some big release coming very shortly. Though if it's another Space Marine release, it would be such awful timing that the backlash would be intense.
Warpspy wrote: This Psychic Awakening thing is being rather underwhelming so far...
In terms of "story" or lore all I have read in these books has been basically "nothing happens" "we already knew that", and similar... Fortunately I could read all without having to buy the books. I cannot see the impact or interest or "epic scale like the Horus Heresy" anywhere in the books, and certainly, not in the companion scarce models released. The only one marginally interesting was the first boxset with Jain Zar, Drahzar and co., and was very expensive and new models together with ancient ones or much less interesting ones, that made that box uninteresting.
And they announce that every next book only will have 1 new model each? And with high chances of them all being yet again, Primarines and Primarines characters?
If at least they would include a new model for each faction in the books could be marginally more interesting (at least to have something for everybody). As it is is pretty boring and underwhelming... On the bright side, I guess I'll continue to be saving a lot of money
I agree. I find myself fairly underwhelmed from what we've seen from the releases so far. Hopefully they plan on ramping up the releases of the supplements if the content is as lacklustre as we've seen. Either that, or there is some big release coming very shortly. Though if it's another Space Marine release, it would be such awful timing that the backlash would be intense.
Agreed on all accounts.
If the next 'big' release for 40k is yet another Marine model (no matter how Wolfy/Odin'y/badass) there will be a serious backlash from the community as a whole I feel.
Not only from Xenos players either. DA players have been scrambling for the Lion for some time now. Not to mention hose who want Fulgrim and Angron.
It would be nice (and intelligent) for GW to release at least one model for the Xenos/none marine factions participating in PA moving forward. Not some small time model either, a decent, lore-relevant model. Shadow sun for Tau. Something for GK. Ghazzy. Sort it out GW.
E - no reason for Tau to be the sole focus of a book. They should be against Necrons, Death Guard or something.
An Actual Englishman wrote: If the next 'big' release for 40k is yet another Marine model (no matter how Wolfy/Odin'y/badass) there will be a serious backlash from the community as a whole I feel.
Doubt it. This marine hate exists largely in the heads of a few forum dwellers. That said I don't think you've much to worry about. PA takes place within the time frame of the indomitus crusade and there haven't been any primarch returns in that time. Then there's those French rumours that said Ragnar vs Ghazghkull. Besides missing out the next two PA book he's been right about everything so far.
If the next 'big' release for 40k is yet another Marine model (no matter how Wolfy/Odin'y/badass) there will be a serious backlash from the community as a whole I feel.
If by "serious backlash" you mean the same vocal minority of complainers will continue to complain, while everyone else who's not interested just doesn't buy it and carries on as before, then yes, you're absolutely right.
If Tau was one of the last ones i could see them doing Tau vs Tau and making Farsight Enclaves a proper codex instead of a side-thing. Give them something normal Tau dont and a bunch of "upgrade sprues" to existing tau models.
Which would be a more elitist Tau army, probably very few drones and at least some melee capability.
Given that Tau is coming right up i highly doubt that though. They could be paired with pretty much any imperial army. Nids would have made sense too but nids are already done.
Vineheart01 wrote: If Tau was one of the last ones i could see them doing Tau vs Tau and making Farsight Enclaves a proper codex instead of a side-thing. Give them something normal Tau dont and a bunch of "upgrade sprues" to existing tau models.
Which would be a more elitist Tau army, probably very few drones and at least some melee capability.
Given that Tau is coming right up i highly doubt that though. They could be paired with pretty much any imperial army. Nids would have made sense too but nids are already done.
Admech vs Necrons is so obvious it hurts lol.
Odd suggestion but I'm wondering if it'll be daemons? Given the time of the setting it's during the 5th expansion, finding out about the horrors of the warp from survivors of the 4th sphere.
Vineheart01 wrote: If Tau was one of the last ones i could see them doing Tau vs Tau and making Farsight Enclaves a proper codex instead of a side-thing. Give them something normal Tau dont and a bunch of "upgrade sprues" to existing tau models.
Which would be a more elitist Tau army, probably very few drones and at least some melee capability.
Given that Tau is coming right up i highly doubt that though. They could be paired with pretty much any imperial army. Nids would have made sense too but nids are already done.
Admech vs Necrons is so obvious it hurts lol.
Could be Genestealer Cults.
They've got to be in one of them, they were on the original list.
Vineheart01 wrote: If Tau was one of the last ones i could see them doing Tau vs Tau and making Farsight Enclaves a proper codex instead of a side-thing. Give them something normal Tau dont and a bunch of "upgrade sprues" to existing tau models.
Which would be a more elitist Tau army, probably very few drones and at least some melee capability.
Given that Tau is coming right up i highly doubt that though. They could be paired with pretty much any imperial army. Nids would have made sense too but nids are already done.
Admech vs Necrons is so obvious it hurts lol.
Could be Genestealer Cults.
They've got to be in one of them, they were on the original list.
They only said they would get something - Non Marines might just be a page of names......
An Actual Englishman wrote: If the next 'big' release for 40k is yet another Marine model (no matter how Wolfy/Odin'y/badass) there will be a serious backlash from the community as a whole I feel.
Doubt it. This marine hate exists largely in the heads of a few forum dwellers.
Yes, there's no evidence on GWs facebook posts that suggests otherwise at all. Certainly not in the article on the Marine focus in Faith and Fury that GW had to remove from their FB because of all the negative sentiment. A few forum dwellers indeed.
That said I don't think you've much to worry about. PA takes place within the time frame of the indomitus crusade and there haven't been any primarch returns in that time. Then there's those French rumours that said Ragnar vs Ghazghkull. Besides missing out the next two PA book he's been right about everything so far.
The French guy has no idea if there's a release for Orks or not, he's only "confirmed" Ragnar. He's also been proven wrong as he also claimed SW vs Orks was next when we know it isn't.
If the next 'big' release for 40k is yet another Marine model (no matter how Wolfy/Odin'y/badass) there will be a serious backlash from the community as a whole I feel.
If by "serious backlash" you mean the same vocal minority of complainers will continue to complain, while everyone else who's not interested just doesn't buy it and carries on as before, then yes, you're absolutely right.
See above response to JSG. There is a hugely negative sentiment with all the Marine releases and it's no "vocal minority".
An Actual Englishman wrote: If the next 'big' release for 40k is yet another Marine model (no matter how Wolfy/Odin'y/badass) there will be a serious backlash from the community as a whole I feel.
Doubt it. This marine hate exists largely in the heads of a few forum dwellers.
Yes, there's no evidence on GWs facebook posts that suggests otherwise at all. Certainly not in the article on the Marine focus in Faith and Fury that GW had to remove from their FB because of all the negative sentiment. A few forum dwellers indeed.
That said I don't think you've much to worry about. PA takes place within the time frame of the indomitus crusade and there haven't been any primarch returns in that time. Then there's those French rumours that said Ragnar vs Ghazghkull. Besides missing out the next two PA book he's been right about everything so far.
The French guy has no idea if there's a release for Orks or not, he's only "confirmed" Ragnar. He's also been proven wrong as he also claimed SW vs Orks was next when we know it isn't.
If the next 'big' release for 40k is yet another Marine model (no matter how Wolfy/Odin'y/badass) there will be a serious backlash from the community as a whole I feel.
If by "serious backlash" you mean the same vocal minority of complainers will continue to complain, while everyone else who's not interested just doesn't buy it and carries on as before, then yes, you're absolutely right.
See above response to JSG. There is a hugely negative sentiment with all the Marine releases and it's no "vocal minority".
Not to continue this off topic discussion of how evil and soul destroying marines supposedly are, but all the templar/marine focus articles are still on facebook, but also mostly positive?
old piece of wisdom from my day's playing MMO. those who like the game are too busy playing it, those who are upset are, proportionatly the ones more likely to go online and complain.
thing is with the exception of vanilla space marines (who had their supplements and thus got something differant) every PA book has been pretty predictable in what they got.
they've gotten a page of relics, warlord traits,stratigums, a page of random names. and some sometimes misc rules (Space Marines got masters of the chapter, CSMs got deamon blades 'nids and eldar got 'build a bear faction traits) the one army that was a bit short in this where eldar whose relics, warlord traits etc are all Ynnari stuff, and was mostly a reprint. that said they also got new characters and units.
im hoping a number of plausible things from the Tau book, but im expecting Tau vs Death Guard, namely the enclaves and the other tau septs trying to fight them off.
I was going to hope for Kais as a model, but im not sure. kinda wanan hear about gue'vesa or a psychic defense method, but i am surely not hopeful. maybe somethin' will be good.
Otherwise, im on standby for the saga of the beast along with the hope the Custodes show up eventually. in Saga, im hoping to see SW, Khorne demons, and Orks in a free for all. who knows what model could drop from that.
BrianDavion wrote: old piece of wisdom from my day's playing MMO. those who like the game are too busy playing it, those who are upset are, proportionatly the ones more likely to go online and complain.
And a piece of wisdom from my days playing them. Hearing that exact explanation for why the game's forum was super negative frequently preceded the game being shuttered/going F2P.
Dudeface wrote: Not to continue this off topic discussion of how evil and soul destroying marines supposedly are, but all the templar/marine focus articles are still on facebook, but also mostly positive?
Please find me a link to the focus article entitled "Space Marines - why you need faith and fury" on Facebook. You won't. Because they took it down. I quoted a ton of comments from the article earlier in this thread, positive they were not. Quite the opposite in fact.
Also please don't strawman, the argument is that the 40k fanbase are sick and tired of Marine releases. Something that is clearly evidenced by the posts of the fanbase, not only on here, but also on facebook and any other media that GW choose to publish articles on. Look at the latest Tyranid article from BoB, plenty of negative comments there, with more likes than the positive comments.
Dudeface wrote: Not to continue this off topic discussion of how evil and soul destroying marines supposedly are, but all the templar/marine focus articles are still on facebook, but also mostly positive?
Please find me a link to the focus article entitled "Space Marines - why you need faith and fury" on Facebook. You won't. Because they took it down. I quoted a ton of comments from the article earlier in this thread, positive they were not. Quite the opposite in fact.
Also please don't strawman, the argument is that the 40k fanbase are sick and tired of Marine releases. Something that is clearly evidenced by the posts of the fanbase, not only on here, but also on facebook and any other media that GW choose to publish articles on. Look at the latest Tyranid article from BoB, plenty of negative comments there, with more likes than the positive comments.
I want to temper this discussion a little. For one, I agree that there's a growing unrest in the 40k community to samey releases, and a lack of attention to other factions in the setting. I would also state that the community page deleting that post once it received so much hate (deserving or otherwise) is very suspect and dishonest to do. But, I do not believe there is strong enough evidence to state with strong commitment that the fanbase is simply "fed-up" with the releases yet, or that posts on here, or on Facebook or among your groups of friends are reflective of the fanbase as a whole. I think the evidence doesn't come to that conclusion, from what I've seen. I only see a move in that direction, and a continuous movement in that direction. A cautionary tale about what neglect does to a fanbase is to look at Games Workshop's past, or at the handling of Warhammer Fantasy. It is reasonable to assume that, if players have dwindling interest, or are actively pushed out of the hobby, they'd abandon it. I think that this is what Games Workshop is at risk of doing by overly focusing on their bottom line over the player base.
Dudeface wrote: Not to continue this off topic discussion of how evil and soul destroying marines supposedly are, but all the templar/marine focus articles are still on facebook, but also mostly positive?
Please find me a link to the focus article entitled "Space Marines - why you need faith and fury" on Facebook. You won't. Because they took it down. I quoted a ton of comments from the article earlier in this thread, positive they were not. Quite the opposite in fact.
Also please don't strawman, the argument is that the 40k fanbase are sick and tired of Marine releases. Something that is clearly evidenced by the posts of the fanbase, not only on here, but also on facebook and any other media that GW choose to publish articles on. Look at the latest Tyranid article from BoB, plenty of negative comments there, with more likes than the positive comments.
I want to temper this discussion a little. For one, I agree that there's a growing unrest in the 40k community to samey releases, and a lack of attention to other factions in the setting. I would also state that the community page deleting that post once it received so much hate (deserving or otherwise) is very suspect and dishonest to do. But, I do not believe there is strong enough evidence to state with strong commitment that the fanbase is simply "fed-up" with the releases yet, or that posts on here, or on Facebook or among your groups of friends are reflective of the fanbase as a whole. I think the evidence doesn't come to that conclusion, from what I've seen. I only see a move in that direction, and a continuous movement in that direction. A cautionary tale about what neglect does to a fanbase is to look at Games Workshop's past, or at the handling of Warhammer Fantasy. It is reasonable to assume that, if players have dwindling interest, or are actively pushed out of the hobby, they'd abandon it. I think that this is what Games Workshop is at risk of doing by overly focusing on their bottom line over the player base.
Thank you for a reasonable and fair view, I'd also hasten to add that when someone ties a community to their own agenda or perspective, this is equally damaging. I'm not a marine player, I'm not upset with their releases and whilst I do think they need to nerf or consolidate the supplements, I'm not bothered buly the marine content in these books.
So to say the community, I.e. me, is fed up of marine releases and is going to be outwardly hostile to gw, is disingenuous. In fact I get more fed up of people spreading doom and negativity about things that don't interest or affect them.
Let them release what they will release, the impact on/in sales will be enough to steer them. If it's poorly received it won't sell and they will learn, however complaining on a forum does nothing by comparison.
Dudeface wrote: Not to continue this off topic discussion of how evil and soul destroying marines supposedly are, but all the templar/marine focus articles are still on facebook, but also mostly positive?
Please find me a link to the focus article entitled "Space Marines - why you need faith and fury" on Facebook. You won't. Because they took it down. I quoted a ton of comments from the article earlier in this thread, positive they were not. Quite the opposite in fact.
Also please don't strawman, the argument is that the 40k fanbase are sick and tired of Marine releases. Something that is clearly evidenced by the posts of the fanbase, not only on here, but also on facebook and any other media that GW choose to publish articles on. Look at the latest Tyranid article from BoB, plenty of negative comments there, with more likes than the positive comments.
I want to temper this discussion a little. For one, I agree that there's a growing unrest in the 40k community to samey releases, and a lack of attention to other factions in the setting. I would also state that the community page deleting that post once it received so much hate (deserving or otherwise) is very suspect and dishonest to do. But, I do not believe there is strong enough evidence to state with strong commitment that the fanbase is simply "fed-up" with the releases yet, or that posts on here, or on Facebook or among your groups of friends are reflective of the fanbase as a whole. I think the evidence doesn't come to that conclusion, from what I've seen. I only see a move in that direction, and a continuous movement in that direction. A cautionary tale about what neglect does to a fanbase is to look at Games Workshop's past, or at the handling of Warhammer Fantasy. It is reasonable to assume that, if players have dwindling interest, or are actively pushed out of the hobby, they'd abandon it. I think that this is what Games Workshop is at risk of doing by overly focusing on their bottom line over the player base.
Thank you for a reasonable and fair view, I'd also hasten to add that when someone ties a community to their own agenda or perspective, this is equally damaging. I'm not a marine player, I'm not upset with their releases and whilst I do think they need to nerf or consolidate the supplements, I'm not bothered buly the marine content in these books.
So to say the community, I.e. me, is fed up of marine releases and is going to be outwardly hostile to gw, is disingenuous. In fact I get more fed up of people spreading doom and negativity about things that don't interest or affect them.
Let them release what they will release, the impact on/in sales will be enough to steer them. If it's poorly received it won't sell and they will learn, however complaining on a forum does nothing by comparison.
I think it's reasonable to always reflect, and to discuss with those who would want to challenge your position, or who think you're wrong. At least, that's why I post positively or negatively on the forums. Though, as I said, I'm careful about concluding too much from online posts, or how your inner group of friends feel. I think you misunderstood my point though. I cannot describe the 40k community as a whole because everyone is different. I can only describe trends or common beliefs and behaviours. So, when you commented that I was describing you, you were misunderstanding that I was not attempting to describe every 40k player. And there is only anecdotal evidence that can be used to prove my on point, so I admit that I could be wrong. But outside of surveys (which can be easily as biased, or made to try to prove a point) there isn't a very easy way to gauge this opinion. I'm sure this is also something that Games Workshop spend a decent amount of resources monitoring.
Additionally, I strongly disagree with the notion of not spreading negativity. People wouldn't be on these forums consistently if they didn't have any interest. And I detest the idea of censoring opinions because I don't like them, or they might encourage people to act in a way I do not like.
Dudeface wrote: Not to continue this off topic discussion of how evil and soul destroying marines supposedly are, but all the templar/marine focus articles are still on facebook, but also mostly positive?
Please find me a link to the focus article entitled "Space Marines - why you need faith and fury" on Facebook. You won't. Because they took it down. I quoted a ton of comments from the article earlier in this thread, positive they were not. Quite the opposite in fact.
Also please don't strawman, the argument is that the 40k fanbase are sick and tired of Marine releases. Something that is clearly evidenced by the posts of the fanbase, not only on here, but also on facebook and any other media that GW choose to publish articles on. Look at the latest Tyranid article from BoB, plenty of negative comments there, with more likes than the positive comments.
I want to temper this discussion a little. For one, I agree that there's a growing unrest in the 40k community to samey releases, and a lack of attention to other factions in the setting. I would also state that the community page deleting that post once it received so much hate (deserving or otherwise) is very suspect and dishonest to do. But, I do not believe there is strong enough evidence to state with strong commitment that the fanbase is simply "fed-up" with the releases yet, or that posts on here, or on Facebook or among your groups of friends are reflective of the fanbase as a whole. I think the evidence doesn't come to that conclusion, from what I've seen. I only see a move in that direction, and a continuous movement in that direction. A cautionary tale about what neglect does to a fanbase is to look at Games Workshop's past, or at the handling of Warhammer Fantasy. It is reasonable to assume that, if players have dwindling interest, or are actively pushed out of the hobby, they'd abandon it. I think that this is what Games Workshop is at risk of doing by overly focusing on their bottom line over the player base.
Thank you for a reasonable and fair view, I'd also hasten to add that when someone ties a community to their own agenda or perspective, this is equally damaging. I'm not a marine player, I'm not upset with their releases and whilst I do think they need to nerf or consolidate the supplements, I'm not bothered buly the marine content in these books.
So to say the community, I.e. me, is fed up of marine releases and is going to be outwardly hostile to gw, is disingenuous. In fact I get more fed up of people spreading doom and negativity about things that don't interest or affect them.
Let them release what they will release, the impact on/in sales will be enough to steer them. If it's poorly received it won't sell and they will learn, however complaining on a forum does nothing by comparison.
I think it's reasonable to always reflect, and to discuss with those who would want to challenge your position, or who think you're wrong. At least, that's why I post positively or negatively on the forums. Though, as I said, I'm careful about concluding too much from online posts, or how your inner group of friends feel. I think you misunderstood my point though. I cannot describe the 40k community as a whole because everyone is different. I can only describe trends or common beliefs and behaviours. So, when you commented that I was describing you, you were misunderstanding that I was not attempting to describe every 40k player. And there is only anecdotal evidence that can be used to prove my on point, so I admit that I could be wrong. But outside of surveys (which can be easily as biased, or made to try to prove a point) there isn't a very easy way to gauge this opinion. I'm sure this is also something that Games Workshop spend a decent amount of resources monitoring.
Additionally, I strongly disagree with the notion of not spreading negativity. People wouldn't be on these forums consistently if they didn't have any interest. And I detest the idea of censoring opinions because I don't like them, or they might encourage people to act in a way I do not like.
Agreed on all accounts and apologies, I know you weren't trying to group me directly, it was more of an open statement. Criticism that is fairly levelled is one thing but it needs to be in a constructive format, I often see blind negativity here, not just towards GW but each other. "Marine apologist" is a term that has been banded about previously and needlessly suggests some of the player base is at fault for having a differing opinion.
Dudeface wrote: Not to continue this off topic discussion of how evil and soul destroying marines supposedly are, but all the templar/marine focus articles are still on facebook, but also mostly positive?
Please find me a link to the focus article entitled "Space Marines - why you need faith and fury" on Facebook. You won't. Because they took it down. I quoted a ton of comments from the article earlier in this thread, positive they were not. Quite the opposite in fact.
Also please don't strawman, the argument is that the 40k fanbase are sick and tired of Marine releases. Something that is clearly evidenced by the posts of the fanbase, not only on here, but also on facebook and any other media that GW choose to publish articles on. Look at the latest Tyranid article from BoB, plenty of negative comments there, with more likes than the positive comments.
that doesn't mean anything beyond the fact that people complaining couldn't keep it civil.
Dudeface wrote: Not to continue this off topic discussion of how evil and soul destroying marines supposedly are, but all the templar/marine focus articles are still on facebook, but also mostly positive?
Please find me a link to the focus article entitled "Space Marines - why you need faith and fury" on Facebook. You won't. Because they took it down. I quoted a ton of comments from the article earlier in this thread, positive they were not. Quite the opposite in fact.
Also please don't strawman, the argument is that the 40k fanbase are sick and tired of Marine releases. Something that is clearly evidenced by the posts of the fanbase, not only on here, but also on facebook and any other media that GW choose to publish articles on. Look at the latest Tyranid article from BoB, plenty of negative comments there, with more likes than the positive comments.
I want to temper this discussion a little. For one, I agree that there's a growing unrest in the 40k community to samey releases, and a lack of attention to other factions in the setting. I would also state that the community page deleting that post once it received so much hate (deserving or otherwise) is very suspect and dishonest to do. But, I do not believe there is strong enough evidence to state with strong commitment that the fanbase is simply "fed-up" with the releases yet, or that posts on here, or on Facebook or among your groups of friends are reflective of the fanbase as a whole. I think the evidence doesn't come to that conclusion, from what I've seen. I only see a move in that direction, and a continuous movement in that direction. A cautionary tale about what neglect does to a fanbase is to look at Games Workshop's past, or at the handling of Warhammer Fantasy. It is reasonable to assume that, if players have dwindling interest, or are actively pushed out of the hobby, they'd abandon it. I think that this is what Games Workshop is at risk of doing by overly focusing on their bottom line over the player base.
Thank you for a reasonable and fair view, I'd also hasten to add that when someone ties a community to their own agenda or perspective, this is equally damaging. I'm not a marine player, I'm not upset with their releases and whilst I do think they need to nerf or consolidate the supplements, I'm not bothered buly the marine content in these books.
So to say the community, I.e. me, is fed up of marine releases and is going to be outwardly hostile to gw, is disingenuous. In fact I get more fed up of people spreading doom and negativity about things that don't interest or affect them.
Let them release what they will release, the impact on/in sales will be enough to steer them. If it's poorly received it won't sell and they will learn, however complaining on a forum does nothing by comparison.
I think it's reasonable to always reflect, and to discuss with those who would want to challenge your position, or who think you're wrong. At least, that's why I post positively or negatively on the forums. Though, as I said, I'm careful about concluding too much from online posts, or how your inner group of friends feel. I think you misunderstood my point though. I cannot describe the 40k community as a whole because everyone is different. I can only describe trends or common beliefs and behaviours. So, when you commented that I was describing you, you were misunderstanding that I was not attempting to describe every 40k player. And there is only anecdotal evidence that can be used to prove my on point, so I admit that I could be wrong. But outside of surveys (which can be easily as biased, or made to try to prove a point) there isn't a very easy way to gauge this opinion. I'm sure this is also something that Games Workshop spend a decent amount of resources monitoring.
Additionally, I strongly disagree with the notion of not spreading negativity. People wouldn't be on these forums consistently if they didn't have any interest. And I detest the idea of censoring opinions because I don't like them, or they might encourage people to act in a way I do not like.
Agreed on all accounts and apologies, I know you weren't trying to group me directly, it was more of an open statement. Criticism that is fairly levelled is one thing but it needs to be in a constructive format, I often see blind negativity here, not just towards GW but each other. "Marine apologist" is a term that has been banded about previously and needlessly suggests some of the player base is at fault for having a differing opinion.
No apology needed. I completely agree that constructive criticism is the always what should be strived for. Shaming and name calling are abhorrent behaviour, and those who do it are rarely going to convince anyone of their own opinion. You're absolutely right though. There is a lot of blind negativity on here. But check up on Facebook and there's plenty of blind praise aswell. I think both are fine, so I never bring it up. I just read it, see the flaws, then move on. It's shocking to have a reasonable discussion with someone else on here though.
To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?
Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?
Vineheart01 wrote: If Tau was one of the last ones i could see them doing Tau vs Tau and making Farsight Enclaves a proper codex instead of a side-thing. Give them something normal Tau dont and a bunch of "upgrade sprues" to existing tau models.
Which would be a more elitist Tau army, probably very few drones and at least some melee capability.
Given that Tau is coming right up i highly doubt that though. They could be paired with pretty much any imperial army. Nids would have made sense too but nids are already done.
Admech vs Necrons is so obvious it hurts lol.
Odd suggestion but I'm wondering if it'll be daemons? Given the time of the setting it's during the 5th expansion, finding out about the horrors of the warp from survivors of the 4th sphere.
I really wonder who the Daemons will be matched against. The GK seemed like the obvious choice, but we know that's not happening; ditto with the Black Templars and the Sisters of Battle.
Vineheart01 wrote: If Tau was one of the last ones i could see them doing Tau vs Tau and making Farsight Enclaves a proper codex instead of a side-thing. Give them something normal Tau dont and a bunch of "upgrade sprues" to existing tau models.
Which would be a more elitist Tau army, probably very few drones and at least some melee capability.
Given that Tau is coming right up i highly doubt that though. They could be paired with pretty much any imperial army. Nids would have made sense too but nids are already done.
Admech vs Necrons is so obvious it hurts lol.
Odd suggestion but I'm wondering if it'll be daemons? Given the time of the setting it's during the 5th expansion, finding out about the horrors of the warp from survivors of the 4th sphere.
I really wonder who the Daemons will be matched against. The GK seemed like the obvious choice, but we know that's not happening; ditto with the Black Templars and the Sisters of Battle.
Yeah non Marines (Sisters) were in the trailers, the logo on the website and then..........nothing.....in the book ruleswise (but hey 10 pages of rules for generic Marines instead)
I assume it will be the same for future PA's and non-Marine Imperial factions - they might if they are lucky get a lore mention..... or even some artwork and thats their stuff for PA I guess.
Flesh-Tearers are also taking up the next White Dwarf 40k faction space - are they not in PA3 as well?
Raven Guard and White Scars had big engagments against the Tau so maybe they get the first Supplement no 2?
Dudeface wrote: Not to continue this off topic discussion of how evil and soul destroying marines supposedly are, but all the templar/marine focus articles are still on facebook, but also mostly positive?
Please find me a link to the focus article entitled "Space Marines - why you need faith and fury" on Facebook. You won't. Because they took it down. I quoted a ton of comments from the article earlier in this thread, positive they were not. Quite the opposite in fact.
Also please don't strawman, the argument is that the 40k fanbase are sick and tired of Marine releases. Something that is clearly evidenced by the posts of the fanbase, not only on here, but also on facebook and any other media that GW choose to publish articles on. Look at the latest Tyranid article from BoB, plenty of negative comments there, with more likes than the positive comments.
that doesn't mean anything beyond the fact that people complaining couldn't keep it civil.
Oh, it was civil. I read the posts Brian. I posted some of them here mate. You can literally see them earlier in this thread. If any of the posts weren't civil GW could have removed only those, rather than the entire post.
GW didn't like the negative publicity and censored it. It's as simple as that.
Vineheart01 wrote: If Tau was one of the last ones i could see them doing Tau vs Tau and making Farsight Enclaves a proper codex instead of a side-thing. Give them something normal Tau dont and a bunch of "upgrade sprues" to existing tau models.
Which would be a more elitist Tau army, probably very few drones and at least some melee capability.
Given that Tau is coming right up i highly doubt that though. They could be paired with pretty much any imperial army. Nids would have made sense too but nids are already done.
Admech vs Necrons is so obvious it hurts lol.
Odd suggestion but I'm wondering if it'll be daemons? Given the time of the setting it's during the 5th expansion, finding out about the horrors of the warp from survivors of the 4th sphere.
I really wonder who the Daemons will be matched against. The GK seemed like the obvious choice, but we know that's not happening; ditto with the Black Templars and the Sisters of Battle.
Yeah non Marines (Sisters) were in the trailers, the logo on the website and then..........nothing.....in the book ruleswise (but hey 10 pages of rules for generic Marines instead)
I assume it will be the same for future PA's and non-Marine Imperial factions - they might if they are lucky get a lore mention..... or even some artwork and thats their stuff for PA I guess.
Flesh-Tearers are also taking up the next White Dwarf 40k faction space - are they not in PA3 as well?
Raven Guard and White Scars had big engagments against the Tau so maybe they get the first Supplement no 2?
Flesh tearers are proably in white dwarf as cross promotion content. they'll put out some lore and "what's going on with the flesh tearers post great rift" stuff, and maybe some narrative missions, with a quick advertisement for blood of baal at the end. not every index astartes article contains rules. dark angels have also been featured, and with sub faction rules for flesh tearers it strikes me it's a good time to shed some light on them.
as for the non-marines in faith and fury, you realize F&F released on the same day the sister's box set did. seems pretty clear to me it was "cross promotional content"
seriously, sisters got fluff in the book, a new codex, and the launch of a boxed set heralding a complete new plastic mini's line. I've not seen a single sister's player claim sister's are being ahrd done by here
Vineheart01 wrote: If Tau was one of the last ones i could see them doing Tau vs Tau and making Farsight Enclaves a proper codex instead of a side-thing. Give them something normal Tau dont and a bunch of "upgrade sprues" to existing tau models.
Which would be a more elitist Tau army, probably very few drones and at least some melee capability.
Given that Tau is coming right up i highly doubt that though. They could be paired with pretty much any imperial army. Nids would have made sense too but nids are already done.
Admech vs Necrons is so obvious it hurts lol.
Odd suggestion but I'm wondering if it'll be daemons? Given the time of the setting it's during the 5th expansion, finding out about the horrors of the warp from survivors of the 4th sphere.
I really wonder who the Daemons will be matched against. The GK seemed like the obvious choice, but we know that's not happening; ditto with the Black Templars and the Sisters of Battle.
Yeah non Marines (Sisters) were in the trailers, the logo on the website and then..........nothing.....in the book ruleswise (but hey 10 pages of rules for generic Marines instead)
I assume it will be the same for future PA's and non-Marine Imperial factions - they might if they are lucky get a lore mention..... or even some artwork and thats their stuff for PA I guess.
Flesh-Tearers are also taking up the next White Dwarf 40k faction space - are they not in PA3 as well?
Raven Guard and White Scars had big engagments against the Tau so maybe they get the first Supplement no 2?
Flesh tearers are proably in white dwarf as cross promotion content. they'll put out some lore and "what's going on with the flesh tearers post great rift" stuff, and maybe some narrative missions, with a quick advertisement for blood of baal at the end. not every index astartes article contains rules. dark angels have also been featured, and with sub faction rules for flesh tearers it strikes me it's a good time to shed some light on them.
as for the non-marines in faith and fury, you realize F&F released on the same day the sister's box set did. seems pretty clear to me it was "cross promotional content"
seriously, sisters got fluff in the book, a new codex, and the launch of a boxed set heralding a complete new plastic mini's line. I've not seen a single sister's player claim sister's are being ahrd done by here
Ah but my Marines had just had Codex and Supplements but somehow it was needed to have 10 more pages of rules for them in PA2 .....
Dudeface wrote: To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?
Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?
Edit - Thank you Darsath
It really isn’t offtopic if the most recent PA book is once again buffing marines, the current book (baal) is about red marines, and the next book is about silver, green, and dusty blue marines. Especially when the competitive meta is marines and every competitive list uses marines as a benchmark. Other armies have good and bad stereotypes for their players too, but when most of the new content is about marines, people will discuss anything and everything marine related. It wasn’t that long ago when imperial soup and their undercosted splashable guardsmen dominated every conversation.
Dudeface wrote: To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?
Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?
Edit - Thank you Darsath
It really isn’t offtopic if the most recent PA book is once again buffing marines, the current book (baal) is about red marines, and the next book is about silver, green, and dusty blue marines. Especially when the competitive meta is marines and every competitive list uses marines as a benchmark. Other armies have good and bad stereotypes for their players too, but when most of the new content is about marines, people will discuss anything and everything marine related. It wasn’t that long ago when imperial soup and their undercosted splashable guardsmen dominated every conversation.
except marines aren't a single army. there are NINE codices with space marines in them (out of 24) why should someone who plays death guard be told he doesn't deserve anything because thousand sons got something? yes when a full half your armies are A4, T4 3+ armor save with a similer aestetic orgin, you're gonna see a lotta product. but I think it's kinda insulting to tell a blood angel he shouldn't get any updates because vanilla marines got something
Dudeface wrote: To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?
Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?
Edit - Thank you Darsath
No, the DAs are now accepting Primaris for major positions. The WD article had Master Balthazar of the 5th company killed off and now Master Lazarus, who has crossed the Rubicon, is the Master of the 5th Company. They have alos inducted the first Primaris marine into the Deathwing. Basically, the flood gates are now open for Deathwing, Ravenwing, etc Primaris.
I'm curious as to why GW is waiting until xmas day to release info about the next book, and deliberately telling people about that date. Don't they generally release something a little bigger this time of the year? Perhaps there is a little more to this release than a single character.
Dudeface wrote: To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?
Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?
Edit - Thank you Darsath
No, the DAs are now accepting Primaris for major positions. The WD article had Master Balthazar of the 5th company killed off and now Master Lazarus, who has crossed the Rubicon, is the Master of the 5th Company. They have alos inducted the first Primaris marine into the Deathwing. Basically, the flood gates are now open for Deathwing, Ravenwing, etc Primaris.
I'm curious as to why GW is waiting until xmas day to release info about the next book, and deliberately telling people about that date. Don't they generally release something a little bigger this time of the year? Perhaps there is a little more to this release than a single character.
could be as simple as "we're gonna take your christmas money"
Dudeface wrote: To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?
Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?
Edit - Thank you Darsath
No, the DAs are now accepting Primaris for major positions. The WD article had Master Balthazar of the 5th company killed off and now Master Lazarus, who has crossed the Rubicon, is the Master of the 5th Company. They have alos inducted the first Primaris marine into the Deathwing. Basically, the flood gates are now open for Deathwing, Ravenwing, etc Primaris.
I'm curious as to why GW is waiting until xmas day to release info about the next book, and deliberately telling people about that date. Don't they generally release something a little bigger this time of the year? Perhaps there is a little more to this release than a single character.
Nope.
Traditionally they don't release anything at all beyond the battleforces, maybe terrain and paint sets. Things generally don't pick back up again until mid-January.
The chaos book and starter and etc is pretty big in its own right for the time of year, especially if the monsters quickly follow (formorian cyclops, ogre champion and sphinx)
Honestly the PA books and single models seem to be a delaying tactic while they get new production lines running. We know thats going on (or just finished) and it will take time to get production really flowing (especially given the all kits 'temporarily out of stock').
All of PA feels and tastes like filler, and all the books from the supplements, PA and CA have been a mess that feels like a rush job, though part of that comes from the 'we didn't realize that people would use the rules we wrote and not the versions that exist solely in our heads' blame shifting in the supplement FAQs.
Dudeface wrote: To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?
Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?
Edit - Thank you Darsath
It really isn’t offtopic if the most recent PA book is once again buffing marines, the current book (baal) is about red marines, and the next book is about silver, green, and dusty blue marines. Especially when the competitive meta is marines and every competitive list uses marines as a benchmark. Other armies have good and bad stereotypes for their players too, but when most of the new content is about marines, people will discuss anything and everything marine related. It wasn’t that long ago when imperial soup and their undercosted splashable guardsmen dominated every conversation.
except marines aren't a single army. there are NINE codices with space marines in them (out of 24) why should someone who plays death guard be told he doesn't deserve anything because thousand sons got something? yes when a full half your armies are A4, T4 3+ armor save with a similer aestetic orgin, you're gonna see a lotta product. but I think it's kinda insulting to tell a blood angel he shouldn't get any updates because vanilla marines got something
Dudeface wrote: To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?
Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?
Edit - Thank you Darsath
It really isn’t offtopic if the most recent PA book is once again buffing marines, the current book (baal) is about red marines, and the next book is about silver, green, and dusty blue marines. Especially when the competitive meta is marines and every competitive list uses marines as a benchmark. Other armies have good and bad stereotypes for their players too, but when most of the new content is about marines, people will discuss anything and everything marine related. It wasn’t that long ago when imperial soup and their undercosted splashable guardsmen dominated every conversation.
except marines aren't a single army. there are NINE codices with space marines in them (out of 24) why should someone who plays death guard be told he doesn't deserve anything because thousand sons got something? yes when a full half your armies are A4, T4 3+ armor save with a similer aestetic orgin, you're gonna see a lotta product. but I think it's kinda insulting to tell a blood angel he shouldn't get any updates because vanilla marines got something
There shouldn't BE nine codices to begin with.
gotta deal with the facts as they are, not as you wish they would be
Dudeface wrote: To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?
Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?
Edit - Thank you Darsath
It really isn’t offtopic if the most recent PA book is once again buffing marines, the current book (baal) is about red marines, and the next book is about silver, green, and dusty blue marines. Especially when the competitive meta is marines and every competitive list uses marines as a benchmark. Other armies have good and bad stereotypes for their players too, but when most of the new content is about marines, people will discuss anything and everything marine related. It wasn’t that long ago when imperial soup and their undercosted splashable guardsmen dominated every conversation.
except marines aren't a single army. there are NINE codices with space marines in them (out of 24) why should someone who plays death guard be told he doesn't deserve anything because thousand sons got something? yes when a full half your armies are A4, T4 3+ armor save with a similer aestetic orgin, you're gonna see a lotta product. but I think it's kinda insulting to tell a blood angel he shouldn't get any updates because vanilla marines got something
There shouldn't BE nine codices to begin with.
gotta deal with the facts as they are, not as you wish they would be
Yeah, people do and the next person I see derailing a N&R thread complaining about this is getting a vacation as I am sick to death of it.
Dudeface wrote: To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?
Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?
Edit - Thank you Darsath
No, the DAs are now accepting Primaris for major positions. The WD article had Master Balthazar of the 5th company killed off and now Master Lazarus, who has crossed the Rubicon, is the Master of the 5th Company. They have alos inducted the first Primaris marine into the Deathwing. Basically, the flood gates are now open for Deathwing, Ravenwing, etc Primaris.
I'm curious as to why GW is waiting until xmas day to release info about the next book, and deliberately telling people about that date. Don't they generally release something a little bigger this time of the year? Perhaps there is a little more to this release than a single character.
Nope.
Traditionally they don't release anything at all beyond the battleforces, maybe terrain and paint sets. Things generally don't pick back up again until mid-January.
The chaos book and starter and etc is pretty big in its own right for the time of year, especially if the monsters quickly follow (formorian cyclops, ogre champion and sphinx)
Honestly the PA books and single models seem to be a delaying tactic while they get new production lines running. We know thats going on (or just finished) and it will take time to get production really flowing (especially given the all kits 'temporarily out of stock').
All of PA feels and tastes like filler, and all the books from the supplements, PA and CA have been a mess that feels like a rush job, though part of that comes from the 'we didn't realize that people would use the rules we wrote and not the versions that exist solely in our heads' blame shifting in the supplement FAQs.
Pretty sure Gloomspite Gitz were revealed last Xmas (yep...just checked https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/26/26th-dec-gloomspite-gitz-revealedgw-homepage-post-1/), not sure about 2017, was that when we got first glimpses of Shadowspear? So it is normal for GW to hit one decent size reveal Xmas day, so maybe we are getting a little more with the PA3 release. I am also skeptical, but one can dream....
Dudeface wrote: To be honest the rhetoric about how evil the marines and their respective fans/haters are is getting way off topic again. Sadly it is a recurring trend but maybe we should all agree to objectively assess the next book now?
Dark Angels supposedly getting an as yet unnamed primaris character is interesting as at last check in, they were universally showing distrust of the primaris marines are they not?
Edit - Thank you Darsath
No, the DAs are now accepting Primaris for major positions. The WD article had Master Balthazar of the 5th company killed off and now Master Lazarus, who has crossed the Rubicon, is the Master of the 5th Company. They have alos inducted the first Primaris marine into the Deathwing. Basically, the flood gates are now open for Deathwing, Ravenwing, etc Primaris.
I'm curious as to why GW is waiting until xmas day to release info about the next book, and deliberately telling people about that date. Don't they generally release something a little bigger this time of the year? Perhaps there is a little more to this release than a single character.
Nope.
Traditionally they don't release anything at all beyond the battleforces, maybe terrain and paint sets. Things generally don't pick back up again until mid-January.
The chaos book and starter and etc is pretty big in its own right for the time of year, especially if the monsters quickly follow (formorian cyclops, ogre champion and sphinx)
Honestly the PA books and single models seem to be a delaying tactic while they get new production lines running. We know thats going on (or just finished) and it will take time to get production really flowing (especially given the all kits 'temporarily out of stock').
All of PA feels and tastes like filler, and all the books from the supplements, PA and CA have been a mess that feels like a rush job, though part of that comes from the 'we didn't realize that people would use the rules we wrote and not the versions that exist solely in our heads' blame shifting in the supplement FAQs.
Pretty sure Gloomspite Gitz were revealed last Xmas (yep...just checked https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/26/26th-dec-gloomspite-gitz-revealedgw-homepage-post-1/), not sure about 2017, was that when we got first glimpses of Shadowspear? So it is normal for GW to hit one decent size reveal Xmas day, so maybe we are getting a little more with the PA3 release. I am also skeptical, but one can dream....
Oh, yeah. They do Xmas day reveals (though that one was the day after).
But you said 'release something bigger this time of year,' I figured you meant December releases.
And as far as PA goes, the Open Day post pretty much put the idea of a big (or even PA1 eldar sized) release to bed:
WarCom wrote:Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion to lead the charge in this terrible age. These legendary heroes will include reborn, reimagined and brand-new characters, but we can’t reveal any more details at the moment.
I dunno, when the community site mentioned "an epic champion" for each book I didn't necessarily read that as "only one model release per book" so much as "there will be a character model, maybe something else"
I definitely see the reasons for reading as only one model, though, but I hope that there'll be more than that. I figure the Dark Angels players would appreciate their new shiny slightly-trusted Primaris Deathwing/Ravenwing. Probably won't happen, though, unfortunately. Turns out that models don't release at the speed of hype.
Grey Knights are supposed to be getting a big update, right? I'm hoping that it isn't "now you can take Primaris units as Grey Knights."
Benionin wrote: I dunno, when the community site mentioned "an epic champion" for each book I didn't necessarily read that as "only one model release per book" so much as "there will be a character model, maybe something else"
I definitely see the reasons for reading as only one model, though, but I hope that there'll be more than that. I figure the Dark Angels players would appreciate their new shiny slightly-trusted Primaris Deathwing/Ravenwing. Probably won't happen, though, unfortunately. Turns out that models don't release at the speed of hype.
Grey Knights are supposed to be getting a big update, right? I'm hoping that it isn't "now you can take Primaris units as Grey Knights."
I also read the statement about the character release as less restrictive than "there will be only one model per book". I don't think it should be taken quite that literally.
That said, in the next release I expect a new DA character, possibly a new GK character and that's it. I don't think TS will get anything (nor do I have any idea what they could expect given how fleshed out their line is already).
On the GK buff - from what I understand the buff is rules only. It would make sense for GW to add the Primaris models to the GK line - it would provide the double benefit of tapping into that market and buffing GK competitively. I can't see this either though, because GW have snowflaked themselves into a corner with the lore and design of GK units where the addition of Primaris (outside of some very creative lore changes/excuse mongering) would make no sense.
Despite all of the above I checked the Christmas day Gloomspite Gits reveal and they released on 5th January so maybe there is more to this PA. I hope not. But you never know.
A massive GK release, model wise would be a suprise to be sure, and a slightly unwelcome one because then I'd wanna buy more minis for my GK and I'm trying to save for sisters
No, the DAs are now accepting Primaris for major positions. The WD article had Master Balthazar of the 5th company killed off and now Master Lazarus, who has crossed the Rubicon, is the Master of the 5th Company. They have alos inducted the first Primaris marine into the Deathwing. Basically, the flood gates are now open for Deathwing, Ravenwing, etc Primaris.
It's important to note that the whole ""Crossing the Rubicon Primaris" is referring to what the Codex Space Marines listed as "The Ascended". It's existing(potentially 'off screen') characters undergoing the Primaris procedures.
This might come across as a nitpicking thing, but from my current understanding--"The Awakened"(the Primaris who were part of Cawl's stasis bunch) aren't being accepted into the Inner Circle, Deathwing, or Ravenwing while "The Indoctrinated"(fresh, handpicked recruits given the Primaris procedures) were being considered for the whole 'mysteries of the Dark Angels!1!!' bit.
I'm curious as to why GW is waiting until xmas day to release info about the next book, and deliberately telling people about that date. Don't they generally release something a little bigger this time of the year? Perhaps there is a little more to this release than a single character.
December is usually a dead month, release wise. When Maggotkin were coming out, they did a similar Christmas reveal bit.
Kanluwen wrote: This might come across as a nitpicking thing, but from my current understanding--"The Awakened"(the Primaris who were part of Cawl's stasis bunch) aren't being accepted into the Inner Circle, Deathwing, or Ravenwing while "The Indoctrinated"(fresh, handpicked recruits given the Primaris procedures) were being considered for the whole 'mysteries of the Dark Angels!1!!' bit.
I think that's probably the best way to incorporate primaris with the Dark Angels and kudos to GW for coming up with it.
So there is Deathwing Primaris, at least in the fluff. Now, Dark Angels and Grey Knights are the "terminator armies". While this is total speculation I could definitely see GW making some kind of Primaris terminator unit that could be used for both GK and DA so they could have a wider customer base.
Also, with all the Primaris upgrade sprues, how hard would it be to put 5 GK style heads, a Force Sword, and psycannon on one?
cuda1179 wrote: So there is Deathwing Primaris, at least in the fluff. Now, Dark Angels and Grey Knights are the "terminator armies". While this is total speculation I could definitely see GW making some kind of Primaris terminator unit that could be used for both GK and DA so they could have a wider customer base.
Also, with all the Primaris upgrade sprues, how hard would it be to put 5 GK style heads, a Force Sword, and psycannon on one?
cuda1179 wrote: So there is Deathwing Primaris, at least in the fluff. Now, Dark Angels and Grey Knights are the "terminator armies". While this is total speculation I could definitely see GW making some kind of Primaris terminator unit that could be used for both GK and DA so they could have a wider customer base.
Also, with all the Primaris upgrade sprues, how hard would it be to put 5 GK style heads, a Force Sword, and psycannon on one?
there's a lot of debate as to weather or not agressors are supposed to be terminator equivilant. they don't fill the "for elite veterns only" niche, which for primaris IS a notable gap that presumably will be filled eventually, right now we've got the vetern intercessors strat but I expect eventually we'll see a dedicated vetern unit.
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zend wrote: Unless they’re just making truescale Indomitus armor models, Primaris terminators can feth right off.
even among old marines there's a fair bit of varity among terminator armor, 3 differant marks. I imagine Primaris will be a blending of the three.
They also need the unit to teleport. It could be based on Gravis armour, but would need additional elements to allow this to happen.
So we don't think there may be a surprise box that releases first part of January (while sisters starts to arrive end of Jan)? Not sure if "new" marines would go over well right now, but there is an air of mystery to this (perfectly fitting for DA). The consistent rumour was Orks vs Wolves, which we now know is wrong (yet the source had got so much right prior), so what have GW been hiding to suddenly put this release out at the beginning of the year, and giving a Xmas day teaser to start it off?
Both aggressors and terminators fulfill some of the same role as breachers, but I don’t see them as the same. I would like to see a Gravis armor squad kit that would have the option to upgrade one to a captain so we’ve got a alternate to the one in the core set.
I'd be VERY VERY suprised if we saw some sort of new primaris unit in the first months of 2020. we know sisters are january, and they're going to be pretty big, by my count we have around a dozen kits, maybe or or two more, maybe or or two less,
Picked up Faith and Fury last night, took about 45 minutes to read cover to cover and...
Big surprise! It's mostly Marine garbage.
Are they ever going to release anything over value for non-marine armies? Or is it just going to continue to be a marine-spank fest?
How many codexes have Marine based armies gotten this year? Hmmm?
How many Xenos Codexes?
Furthermore, how many of the Xenos rules releases have even been worth their weight in salt? Meanwhile Marines once again get to be the most absolutely broken factions, able to do things that others can't for literally no reason at all.
Isn't it cool how CSM Tanks now also get to have Chapt-oh, well. Nevermind on that.
Mr Morden wrote: It would have been much better to release the DA, BA and Wolves supplements as that rather than pretend they are campaigns....
Is there anything new or intersting in the (tiny) lore element?
In Faith and Fury?
Someone posted yesterday in another thread that the collective Ork Psychic energy levels is reaching Beast standards (human psykers driven mad/head explode when they hear da call of WAAAGH!).
This interested me a little. Apart from that I have no idea.
I think it's a cert that there will be future releases of Gravis stuff with more/different options. Jes Goodwin, the ultimate Marine-o-phile, has stated this is going to happen in a voxcast (which is where I turned off). I also think it's a dead cert that the design team see Gravis as the Primaris terminators, regardless of their 'veteran' status (or any other dumb lore stuff) - they literally have the exact same role.
It would be a financial mistake long term to release these models straight after Xmas in my opinion, the general public perception I have seen online, in various stores and hobby clubs, is that people (even Marine players) are sick of the constant marine releases now and want a break.
That said, GW gonna GW and it'd be no surprise to me I'd they continued to stick one finger up at most of their community while pandering to the spoilt few.
) absolutely must have all the new stuff to at least match the Codex Marines as well or they are trash and the world will end....
And unlike some 
