Because we have no effective way of getting them into combat. The only fast moving units we have are Rhinos, and trying to use CC units out of them is an exercise in frustration - not to say its impossible, but its far from ideal.
At best you can ally in Land Raiders, but if you're going into Inquisition or Space Marine Codexes to find the Raiders, you're probably just better off using Inquisition Warbands or Space Marine units anyway.
So there are a couple of problems with the melee units in the Sisters codex. First, they are very fragile. They come in low numbers (maximum ten), they are only T3, and they can't get a critical mass of good armor, invulnerable and feel no pain saves easily. Second, they don't hit very hard. Most start at S3 and can get boosted up to S4 or S5. This is ok, but not great. Wounding MEQs 50% of the time is hardly ideal. They also lack access to a decent density of melee weapons with AP3 or better so most of the time your opponent is still rolling armor saves. Those with lots of special weapons (repentia, death cult assassins) are especially fragile (T3, 6++/5++ respectively, low model count). Finally, they lack a good delivery system. You have to be exposed for a turn before charging unless you ally in an assault transport---at which point, you're better off allying in a better melee unit.
Mavnas wrote: Still Flesh Tearers detachment (Forget exact name) 1 HQ + 1 Troop to unlock up to 6 pods.
Name of the detachment is Flesh Tearers Strike Force from the Exterminatis book. I thulink the min point investment I just over 100pts (1 squad of scouts and a Sang Priest).
Are knights any good? They look good, but I am afraid they are too many pts in one place.
Sorry if it is bad to cross post.
Knights are very good. You've got enough units to support him that I'd go ahead and play the knight list with the changes pretre suggested in your other thread.
Are knights any good? They look good, but I am afraid they are too many pts in one place.
Sorry if it is bad to cross post.
The conversation in this post turned at one point toward a Canoness in the primary detachment and Celestine in a secondary in order to extend Fast choices. How does this work in 7th? I thought additional detachments had to be from a different force than your primary. I could get quite a bit more out of my army if I could run Jacobus, big footslogging squads, Dominions, and Retributors/Exorcists in one army, and then add Celestine, a small Troop, and 1-2 units of Seraphim in another. What are the 7th ed. restrictions on this in terms of list, game, and tournament types? Does it change how Warlords function?
Are knights any good? They look good, but I am afraid they are too many pts in one place.
Sorry if it is bad to cross post.
The conversation in this post turned at one point toward a Canoness in the primary detachment and Celestine in a secondary in order to extend Fast choices. How does this work in 7th? I thought additional detachments had to be from a different force than your primary. I could get quite a bit more out of my army if I could run Jacobus, big footslogging squads, Dominions, and Retributors/Exorcists in one army, and then add Celestine, a small Troop, and 1-2 units of Seraphim in another. What are the 7th ed. restrictions on this in terms of list, game, and tournament types? Does it change how Warlords function?
So the Allied Detachment (a specific detachment type) has to come from a different faction than your primary detachment. The primary detachment is determined based on the detachment your warlord is in. There are no detachment limits in 7th. So you can have as many detachments as you want so long as you don't go over the points cap and meet the minimum for each detachment. It is totally legit to build an army consisting of multiple CADs from the same faction.
PanzerLeader wrote: So the Allied Detachment (a specific detachment type) has to come from a different faction than your primary detachment. The primary detachment is determined based on the detachment your warlord is in. There are no detachment limits in 7th. So you can have as many detachments as you want so long as you don't go over the points cap and meet the minimum for each detachment. It is totally legit to build an army consisting of multiple CADs from the same faction.
So the real difference is that Allied Detachments have fewer Troop minimums (1xHQ, 1xTroop) than a second CAD (1xHQ, 2xTroop)? Do Allies not have ObSec and CADs do? And is that only CADs that match your primary faction, or do a bunch of assorted CADs get ObSec even if they aren't Battle Brothers (or whatever they're calling it now)?
Sorry I'm so fuzzy on this... I haven't played against people who run anything but a single CAD plus some devastating Formations. Thanks for clarifying!
Allied Detachments have ObSec, yes. Every Detachment gets its benefits listed, regardless of the Alliance level from the Allies Matrix. Taking multiple CADs just lets you double up force org slots for your single faction, just like the rules in 6th Edition allowed you to do above 2000pts.
Allied detachments seem redundant now we can take multiple full FOCs of whatever we want (TO permitting). The only advantage is a smaller Troops "tax," but most factions Sisters would ally with -- except maybe Cult Mechanicus -- can take two cheap and useful Troop squads: IG Vets, Skitarri Vanguard, SM Scouts.
SisterSydney wrote: Allied detachments seem redundant now we can take multiple full FOCs of whatever we want (TO permitting). The only advantage is a smaller Troops "tax," but most factions Sisters would ally with -- except maybe Cult Mechanicus -- can take two cheap and useful Troop squads: IG Vets, Skitarri Vanguard, SM Scouts.
Nah, Allied detachments are still good precisely because you dont have as much troops tax. Sure an IG Vet squad might only be 60pts, but thats for 9 Lasguns and a Laspistol wearing Flak Armour which is not exactly going to achieve much. Once you start kitting them out so they are useful the price goes up. Only having to take 1 of those is a real help when points are tight.
SisterSydney wrote: Allied detachments seem redundant now we can take multiple full FOCs of whatever we want (TO permitting). The only advantage is a smaller Troops "tax," but most factions Sisters would ally with -- except maybe Cult Mechanicus -- can take two cheap and useful Troop squads: IG Vets, Skitarri Vanguard, SM Scouts.
Nah, Allied detachments are still good precisely because you dont have as much troops tax. Sure an IG Vet squad might only be 60pts, but thats for 9 Lasguns and a Laspistol wearing Flak Armour which is not exactly going to achieve much. Once you start kitting them out so they are useful the price goes up. Only having to take 1 of those is a real help when points are tight.
Or if you only want like 120 guardsmen, there's no point in taking the full CAD (You can still get 2 50 man blobs in a single troops choice.)
PanzerLeader wrote: So the Allied Detachment (a specific detachment type) has to come from a different faction than your primary detachment. The primary detachment is determined based on the detachment your warlord is in. There are no detachment limits in 7th. So you can have as many detachments as you want so long as you don't go over the points cap and meet the minimum for each detachment. It is totally legit to build an army consisting of multiple CADs from the same faction.
So the real difference is that Allied Detachments have fewer Troop minimums (1xHQ, 1xTroop) than a second CAD (1xHQ, 2xTroop)? Do Allies not have ObSec and CADs do? And is that only CADs that match your primary faction, or do a bunch of assorted CADs get ObSec even if they aren't Battle Brothers (or whatever they're calling it now)?
Sorry I'm so fuzzy on this... I haven't played against people who run anything but a single CAD plus some devastating Formations. Thanks for clarifying!
Allied Detachments have ObSec on Troops.
CADs can come from any faction. All Troops in a CAD (regardless of faction) get ObSec.
So you could run an army with 2 CADs and 2 Allied Detachments (as an example) and the only faction restriction would be that neither Allied Detachment could have the same faction as the CAD with your Warlord in it. So if you ran a SOB CAD (primary) you could then run a Marine CAD, Marine Allied Detachment and Necron Allied Detachment and have a legal, battle forged army.
Guys, where can I find the up to date Repressor rules?
I'm not understanding how the Imperial Armor books work. IA1, IA2, etc are versions? Or do they contain different information and themselves have versions?
"Imperial Armour Volume 2, Second Edition: War Machines of the Adeptus Astartes". Specifically, this one. Imperial Armour 1 has all the Imperial Guard tanks in it, where Imperial Armour 2 has the Space Marine stuff with a little bit of Inquisition and Sisters of Battle stuff.
I owe you all a high-five... Got a win tonight after an 0-3 start to my Sisters Renaissance. The game was against the same guy who trounced me a few weeks ago with his Dark Eldar, but tonight he brought Khorne Demonkin. We played a 1500 point Maelstrom mission that gives you mission cards based on the number of objectives you hold each turn.
My army: Jacobus, 2 blobs of 15 sisters with F/HF and 2 priests each (one squad got the Litanies, the other had a power maul), 3 Dominions with 3x meltas in MM Immos, 2 Exorcists, and HB Rets with simulacrum.
His army: 2 squads of cultists, a herald, a chaos lord, a squad of berserkers, a squad of possessed, a squad of marines, a squad of terminators, and two dread type things with TL auto cannons and missile launchers.
I had first turn and got the Dominions right up in his face. His termis scattered into a mishap and I got to place them in a distant corner, and his possessed had a terrible time with terrain rolls, but other than that the dice were equitable. He didn't have much anti armor, so after I smoked the two dreds my Immos had free reign. Jacobus was meant to wedge between the two units of 15 to share the banner bonus, but those squads saw little action beyond hustling for a couple turns and holding objectives. The Immos and Exos were predictably rough on his power armor. The Doms not only didn't get wiped out, they ended up getting most of my objective points. The Rets didn't do anything remarkable despite using both Acts and having plenty of targets every turn.
He had enough blood points to summon a bloodthirster on turn 4, but by that time he had only the distant termis, three marines, and his lord, who he gave up to place the bloodthirster. I had only lost an Immo and one squad of Doms by that point, and even though the thirster wiped out the Rets, he would have been targeted by both Exos and both remaining Immos on turn 5. We called it at the end of turn 4, with me winning 6-2.
So, 1-3 going forward, with a 2000 point game in a couple of weeks. Thanks again for all the advice!
Actually, there is but it's minor: the Repressor's Shield of Faith special rule gives it Adamantium Will just like every other unit and vehicle with the special rule.
I am considering Allies for my Sisters, help the ladies out. I have a Imperial Knight for that reason already, but I am also considering Guard (not at the same time of course). I know they can't help in the close combat aspect, but I was thinking of some nice objective sitters and some heavy guns. I also like that they make sense fluff wise.
I may be able to trade three Rhinos that I have converted to SOB use with a fellow SOB player for:
Command Squad
Guardsmen 10+
Heavy Weapons Squad
Then I may be able to paint some of his Sisters of Battle in trade for:
Some Heavy Guns like a Tank Squad
Are Guard a good choice for allies? What heavy weapons would you suggest? What tanks? Can I take A Psyker for the HQ requirement or should I take a Commissar?
SQRT(-2) wrote: I am considering Allies for my Sisters, help the ladies out. I have a Imperial Knight for that reason already, but I am also considering Guard (not at the same time of course). I know they can't help in the close combat aspect, but I was thinking of some nice objective sitters and some heavy guns. I also like that they make sense fluff wise.
I may be able to trade three Rhinos that I have converted to SOB use with a fellow SOB player for:
Command Squad
Guardsmen 10+
Heavy Weapons Squad
Then I may be able to paint some of his Sisters of Battle in trade for:
Some Heavy Guns like a Tank Squad
Are Guard a good choice for allies? What heavy weapons would you suggest? What tanks? Can I take A Psyker for the HQ requirement or should I take a Commissar?
I love my Guard allies.
The psyker unfortunately does not count as your mandatory HQ. I prefer to use the Company Command Squad loaded up with special weapons over the commissar. For 100 points, you can have either a lascannon + master of ordnance for backfield objective sitting and ranged shooting or 4x plasma guns for a more midfield support role.
My current allied detachment is: CCS, 4x plasma, chimera; Veteran squad, 3x plasma, chimera; and 2x wyverns. Its 485 points total and gives you the best anti-infantry barrage weapons in the game plus seven plasma guns with the ability to receive Ignore Cover and/or other special rules as the situation requires.
I think Leman Russ tanks are still overcosted in an allied detachment. If you really want to focus on backfield board control, you can't go wrong by adding a big blob squad with just power axes and melta bombs. 50 bodies with an attached ministorium priest or two are incredibly hard to shift and let you contest a slew of objectives at once.
I am also wondering how a platoon with two infantry squads and 2-3 heavy weapons squads would work instead of tanks. They could cover the back and help shield the sisters from drop pods, sit on objectives, provide some anti air with middle launchers and/or auto cannons, and provide targets for anti personal weapons so my seraphim and/or repenta are not the only such target.
pretre wrote: HWS have an awkward place nowadays, since there's a lot of S6+. Blobs are good, especially since you can make them fearless cheaply.
This. 2 wounds at T3 is not resilient, even in cover. They tend to die quickly. BS3 makes them mediocre at shooting and LD7 makes it tough for them to really benefit from orders. Sisters do ranged shooting better in almost every case over a HWS.
Blobs are great though. If I was going to include a platoon in my SOB army as an allied unit, I'd build it like this:
That comes to 488 points total. It gives you a 50 man blob that can be buffed by your ministorium priests to advance up field and do board control duties to support your dominion alpha strike. It gives you 3 extremely cost efficient (36 points each) ObSec units to cap back field objectives that still might contribute against MCs with their 9 sniper shots. The PCS is not optimal, but its another ObSec unit that lets you buff the shooting of the blob (First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire is always fun and you'll be LD10 with the priests).
pretre wrote: HWS have an awkward place nowadays, since there's a lot of S6+. Blobs are good, especially since you can make them fearless cheaply.
This. 2 wounds at T3 is not resilient, even in cover. They tend to die quickly. BS3 makes them mediocre at shooting and LD7 makes it tough for them to really benefit from orders. Sisters do ranged shooting better in almost every case over a HWS.
Blobs are great though. If I was going to include a platoon in my SOB army as an allied unit, I'd build it like this:
That comes to 488 points total. It gives you a 50 man blob that can be buffed by your ministorium priests to advance up field and do board control duties to support your dominion alpha strike. It gives you 3 extremely cost efficient (36 points each) ObSec units to cap back field objectives that still might contribute against MCs with their 9 sniper shots. The PCS is not optimal, but its another ObSec unit that lets you buff the shooting of the blob (First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire is always fun and you'll be LD10 with the priests).
Priests are only LD7, you'll need either a Commissar/Primaris Psyker (Ld9) or Lord Commissar (Ld10) for high leadership. Though Ld8 off your sergeants with some vox casters for re-rolls is generally good enough.
The other thing you could do is a gunline providing long range, high strength shooting (something Sisters lack outside of Exorcists). Combine some Infantry Squads in a platoon, with either Autocannons or Lascannons and put a Primaris Psyker in there with Divination. At the very least you'll get Prescience (ie twin-link that BS3) and you could get lucky and get Forewarning (4++ Invuln) or Perfect Timing (Ignores Cover). Bring a CCS with its own Lascannon/Autocannon as your HQ, which also lets you issue the Senior Orders (ie Ignores Cover, Tank/Monster Hunter, Get Back in the Fight). 3-4 Auto/Las Cannons that are re-rolling to hit (Prescience), ignoring cover (Perfect Timing/Order) and/or re-rolling Armour-Pen (Order) is no joke against those Skimmer based armies.
SisterSydney wrote: I suppose that if you want Guard heavy weapons nowadays, the best place for them is in a regular infantry squad, NOT a heavy weapons team?
For sure - it means you have plenty of ablative wounds from the rest of the combined squad, you only need to give a single Order to affect all the heavy weapons, you gain the benefit of higher LD and Vox Casters for orders and you can buff them via Psychic Powers far more effectively.
The downside is a larger footprint for the combined unit, and that it is only a single unit (meaning it can only shoot a single unit at a time). But for how relatively cheap you can combine 3-4 Infantry Squads as an Allied Detachment and get the benefit of bodies/Orders it works out pretty good.
An allied detachment of CCS w/ Lascannon and Vox, ML2 Primaris Psyker and 3 Combined Infantry Squads w/ Lascannons and Vox is 400pts.
An allied detachment of Space Marines with ML2 Librarian, Scout Squad w/ Snipers and a Devastator Squad w/ 4x Lascannons is 300pts.
I guess it's up to you to determine whether Orders and all those ablative wounds/lasguns are worth an extra 100pts over better base Ballistic Skill. With the Guard you've got at least 1 guaranteed source of Ignores Cover (the senior officer order), whereas both the Primaris Psyker and Librarian be fishing for the Perfect Timing psychic power. There's also the not-to-be-underestimated value in 30 odd Lasguns FRFSRF in Rapid Range - the Devs wont be doing much to a horde of Ork Boys, whereas the Guard Blob can throw a ton of hits their way.
I was not thinking of lascannons, while really nice the Sisters have enough Melta, but I was thinking some Auto Cannons would be good all around fire and some AA in a ditch.
GoonBandito wrote: Priests are only LD7, you'll need either a Commissar/Primaris Psyker (Ld9) or Lord Commissar (Ld10) for high leadership. Though Ld8 off your sergeants with some vox casters for re-rolls is generally good enough.
GoonBandito wrote: Priests are only LD7, you'll need either a Commissar/Primaris Psyker (Ld9) or Lord Commissar (Ld10) for high leadership. Though Ld8 off your sergeants with some vox casters for re-rolls is generally good enough.
Litanies of the Faith only applies to Act of Faith/War Hymns. It doesn't do anything for any other type of Leadership checks. My comment there was in response to the suggestion to use a Priest to buff the Guard Blob to Ld10 for Orders - that will not work as the Priest is only LD7.
On the subject of priests... I am having trouble getting good value out of mine. I have been running two (one with Litanies, one with Power Maul) with Jacobus in a blob of 15-20. They tend to go up the middle to restrict enemy movement in the center, grab objectives, and draw fire away from the Dominions. They often get strafed by flyers arriving on turn 2+ or get shot up by high RoF units, but rarely get wiped out. They usually get bogged down in difficult terrain or slowed by a tight squeeze because of their size. They have yet to end up in an assault and the priests never use their wargear or their Hymns. I'm thinking about pulling a priest out to send up with either a Dominion squad with meltas in an Immolator or with a Sisters squad with Flamer/HF in a Rhino just because those units see way more action thanks to their transports. If I try this, how can I equip a priest to do some good at the point of contact?
You could always give them a plasma gun. I haven't found those types of priests to be so useful though. They really shine when your opponent has assault units they want to get into your lines.
Priests are part of what make the DCA, Crusader, Inquisitor squad in a Land Raider work. Although you can take them from the inquisition book, those guys aren't ICs and can't buy Litanies.
Mavnas wrote: Priests are part of what make the DCA, Crusader, Inquisitor squad in a Land Raider work. Although you can take them from the inquisition book, those guys aren't ICs and can't buy Litanies.
I agree. But my preferred play style has always been MSU so I only rarely run units like that. I almost always choose to buy more units and more guns.
Mavnas wrote: Priests are part of what make the DCA, Crusader, Inquisitor squad in a Land Raider work. Although you can take them from the inquisition book, those guys aren't ICs and can't buy Litanies.
I agree. But my preferred play style has always been MSU so I only rarely run units like that. I almost always choose to buy more units and more guns.
Then priests should not get upgrades. I have occasionally used one in a doms unit to turn them into more of a speed bump. (Once they ate 27 S4 attacks from some chaos dudes and lost a single sister.)
Quick battle report on tonight's game: 2000 points vs. Chaos Marines/Daemons. We played a Maelstrom with night fighting, and he had the first turn. He had 4x Rhino-mounted Plague Marines, two troops choices that hid in the backfield and summoned as L2 psykers (Tzeentch horrors maybe?-- I never got to them), an L4 demon prince that flew around summoning more stuff, a Chaos Lord, autocannon Havocs, 2x Obliterators, and a Heldrake. I ran Jacobus w/ foot blob, a BSS w/ F/HF in a Rhino, 3x Immo Doms with 3x melta, 2x Exos, HB Rets, Celestine, 2x Seraphim, and two minimum BSS to cover the second CAD.
He spread out across the board and I Outflanked 2 of the 3 Doms who arrived on Turn 2 and 3. He managed to summon 400 extra points worth of daemons over 4 turns (and I denied a few more). Flamers and massed bolters were key here... not a single daemon ever made it into assault (thank goodness). His Havocs were fairly useless, and his Obliterators, his Lord, and squad of Plague Marines spent most of the game grinding away at the blob. Those priests DID earn their keep this time, although I'm still not sure about the Maul. Neither Warlord went down, and we figured out that it was evenly committed at about 450 points per side in that 3-turn combat.
Plague marines are tough; four Rhinos full of them are REALLY tough. I eventually took down 2 squads with Rending HBs and melta Doms and chewed up the other 2 in some tedious multi-turn assaults. I was pretty pleased to take out his Heldrake with 2 turns of snap shots from the 2 Exos; they had few targets after the assaults began and dropping a Flyer got me a well-timed VP. Shockingly, I ended with all 6 vehicles with all their Hull Points intact... not a scratch! The Seraphim did well, both with and without Celestine, mainly flaming daemons in the open and marines in cover.
The game ended in a 9-5 victory for me, called on Turn 4 due to time (our host's 10x10 Dark Angels with free transports had been taken down by combined Tau/Eldar with tons of D weapons). Objectives went slightly my way, the dice gods were even-handed, and mistakes were made on both sides. Takeaways: Flamers are SO sweet for keeping daemons out of your face, high volume shooting is pretty workable vs. high T troops, those minimized "troop tax" BSS units were great in terms of objective coverage, snap shots against flyers can work, but only if you can afford to saturate the target, Laud Hailers may be some of the better points I spent, and did I mention, FLAME EVERYTHING!
My opponent was a little shocked that my 1990s-era army with a not-quite-up-to-speed Codex shut down his summoning, burned all his daemons, chewed through his T5 Marines, and dropped his Flyer without any actual Skyfire weapons. This game brings me to 2-1-2 after 3 editions off. Pretty stoked on the revived sisters, so again, thanks to all here for the help!
MacPhail wrote: My opponent was a little shocked that my 1990s-era army with a not-quite-up-to-speed Codex shut down his summoning, burned all his daemons, chewed through his T5 Marines, and dropped his Flyer without any actual Skyfire weapons. This game brings me to 2-1-2 after 3 editions off. Pretty stoked on the revived sisters, so again, thanks to all here for the help!
Sisters being a 'Bad Army' is one of those strange, oft-repeated misconceptions about 6th/7th Edition 40k. We were quite possibly the best MSU army until 7th Edition Space Marines came out with their free transports, and with the way allies work in 7th Edition any shortcomings can easily be managed by taking other Imperium of Man armies.
MacPhail wrote: Quick battle report on tonight's game: 2000 points vs. Chaos Marines/Daemons. We played a Maelstrom with night fighting, and he had the first turn. He had 4x Rhino-mounted Plague Marines, two troops choices that hid in the backfield and summoned as L2 psykers (Tzeentch horrors maybe?-- I never got to them), an L4 demon prince that flew around summoning more stuff, a Chaos Lord, autocannon Havocs, 2x Obliterators, and a Heldrake. I ran Jacobus w/ foot blob, a BSS w/ F/HF in a Rhino, 3x Immo Doms with 3x melta, 2x Exos, HB Rets, Celestine, 2x Seraphim, and two minimum BSS to cover the second CAD.
He spread out across the board and I Outflanked 2 of the 3 Doms who arrived on Turn 2 and 3. He managed to summon 400 extra points worth of daemons over 4 turns (and I denied a few more). Flamers and massed bolters were key here... not a single daemon ever made it into assault (thank goodness). His Havocs were fairly useless, and his Obliterators, his Lord, and squad of Plague Marines spent most of the game grinding away at the blob. Those priests DID earn their keep this time, although I'm still not sure about the Maul. Neither Warlord went down, and we figured out that it was evenly committed at about 450 points per side in that 3-turn combat.
Plague marines are tough; four Rhinos full of them are REALLY tough. I eventually took down 2 squads with Rending HBs and melta Doms and chewed up the other 2 in some tedious multi-turn assaults. I was pretty pleased to take out his Heldrake with 2 turns of snap shots from the 2 Exos; they had few targets after the assaults began and dropping a Flyer got me a well-timed VP. Shockingly, I ended with all 6 vehicles with all their Hull Points intact... not a scratch! The Seraphim did well, both with and without Celestine, mainly flaming daemons in the open and marines in cover.
The game ended in a 9-5 victory for me, called on Turn 4 due to time (our host's 10x10 Dark Angels with free transports had been taken down by combined Tau/Eldar with tons of D weapons). Objectives went slightly my way, the dice gods were even-handed, and mistakes were made on both sides. Takeaways: Flamers are SO sweet for keeping daemons out of your face, high volume shooting is pretty workable vs. high T troops, those minimized "troop tax" BSS units were great in terms of objective coverage, snap shots against flyers can work, but only if you can afford to saturate the target, Laud Hailers may be some of the better points I spent, and did I mention, FLAME EVERYTHING!
My opponent was a little shocked that my 1990s-era army with a not-quite-up-to-speed Codex shut down his summoning, burned all his daemons, chewed through his T5 Marines, and dropped his Flyer without any actual Skyfire weapons. This game brings me to 2-1-2 after 3 editions off. Pretty stoked on the revived sisters, so again, thanks to all here for the help!
MacPhail wrote: My opponent was a little shocked that my 1990s-era army with a not-quite-up-to-speed Codex shut down his summoning, burned all his daemons, chewed through his T5 Marines, and dropped his Flyer without any actual Skyfire weapons. This game brings me to 2-1-2 after 3 editions off. Pretty stoked on the revived sisters, so again, thanks to all here for the help!
Sisters being a 'Bad Army' is one of those strange, oft-repeated misconceptions about 6th/7th Edition 40k. We were quite possibly the best MSU army until 7th Edition Space Marines came out with their free transports, and with the way allies work in 7th Edition any shortcomings can easily be managed by taking other Imperium of Man armies.
Have to agree there. I don't bring my Sisters out as often as they deserve, but my regular opponents DO NOT like seeing them at all. The randos that come to the table to see the "old metal army" always have preconceived notions that don't match the reality of Sisters on the tabletop in 7th. They can be a proper beatstick in experienced hands.
PanzerLeader wrote: So one of my ATC team mates showed me this gem for Repressors tonight. The Rhebok Assault vehicle from Ramshackle Games. 20 pounds and looks great.
PanzerLeader wrote: So one of my ATC team mates showed me this gem for Repressors tonight. The Rhebok Assault vehicle from Ramshackle Games. 20 pounds and looks great.
What about http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=461 - the seller even comments: "PLEASE NOTE
I am happy to swap out parts of this model for alternate Rhebok parts. The options are either the Cupola instead the Turret shown, or you can select the Plough instead of the Bull Bars shown. Simply let me know when ordering in the comments section if you would like alternate parts." So a transport version (in fact there is even a wheeled version for those who remember the WD conversion from ages back).
Well I went another route entirely.
I bought 1 repressor, and 1 forgeworld razorback multi melta.
For the cost of 2 more repressors I built a vacuum chamber and resin cast duplicated the repressor tops, guns, dozers, and forgeworld multimeltas. So any repressor i make going forward is the cost of a rhino and about $2 of resin. It also gave me the opportunity to shave off the terrible tiny rectangle hatch on the original repressor top so I could put the classier rounded sisters fleur de lis top. While at the same time also making the hole bigger to fit any razorback/predator armament.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but this game is crazy expensive and I love it, so I refuse to cut corners in output quality.
On another note, the ITC is moving to three detachments full time. What do you guys think the best 3rd detachment to round out a Sisters army would be?
I'm leaning towards:
-servo skull Inquisitor to shut down infiltrating/scout builds
-an assassin, either Culexus or Callidus. The Culexus can bum a spare Rhino to get around the battlefield.
-a detachment/formation with reliable ignores cover to mess up Ravenwing heavy lists (probably Legion of the Damned)
I think the inquisitor or assassin are good choices. It's hard to have enough points to field 3 good detachments. You'll want to avoid anything that feels like a tax.
Also, ITC doesn't allow duplicates. Presuably that means you can't double CAD or double Allied Detachment, which means your third has to be one of those army specific ones. The new Codex marine ones are meh. Guard and Sisters don't have any special named ones in their Codexes.
Personally, I will try Iron Hands and Space Wolves, but I think I'm spending too many points on the CM. Long-term I'll probably replace the marines entirely and get a knight or some inquisition stuff or a Culexus to put into a pod. I keep hearing psykers are a threat, but I've yet to see it in my local meta.
Also, do you really find you need more ignores cover?
I'm not a big fan of drop pods in general. I like the flexibility of being able to move units throughout the game.
What I'm concerned with is getting some more consistent ignores cover in the list. By consistent I mean the ability to use it more than once per game. Ravenwing MSU is pretty resilient without it, especially if you have a bad turn of shooting with Acts of Faith. A LotD squad with plasma cannon and plasma gun is 155 points and gets ignore cover every turn on every weapon, including the bolters. AP2 bypasses the save on 2-4 wounds a turn and the bolters at least go to a straight 3+.
Mavnas wrote:Melee ignores cover pretty well. So do doms.
I think the inquisitor or assassin are good choices. It's hard to have enough points to field 3 good detachments. You'll want to avoid anything that feels like a tax.
Also, ITC doesn't allow duplicates. Presuably that means you can't double CAD or double Allied Detachment, which means your third has to be one of those army specific ones. The new Codex marine ones are meh. Guard and Sisters don't have any special named ones in their Codexes.
Personally, I will try Iron Hands and Space Wolves, but I think I'm spending too many points on the CM. Long-term I'll probably replace the marines entirely and get a knight or some inquisition stuff or a Culexus to put into a pod. I keep hearing psykers are a threat, but I've yet to see it in my local meta.
I'm not sold on the drop pod for the Culexus. I think a simple Rhino might be better, especially since his anti-psyker bubble extends off the hull and he can shoot out of it. It allows him to keep up with FMCs and gating deathstars much better too. The LotD detachment is just 1-5 squads of LotD so its pretty tax free too.
Ran the Sisters at ATC this year, finishing with a 3-3 record and 93 points, second to the #1 sisters player at 96 points.
Spoiler:
My list:
SoB:
HQ Celestine
Jacobus
Priest
Priest
Troops:
BSS x 20, MM, Meltagun (Jacobus + priest)
BSS x 12 HB, Meltagun (priest)
FA Dominions x 5, 4x meltaguns, in a HF Immolater
HS Retributers x 8 w/3x Heavy Flamers (in the extra Drop Pod)
Allies:
Blood Angels
HQ Sanguinary Priest with relic jump pack, bolt pistol, extra weapon
Elites
Sanguinary Guard x 8 w/Chapter Banner, PFx 1, Inferno Pistol x 2, 3 axes & 4 swords
Troops
Tac Squad x 10 in drop pod w/ Combi melta, Heavy Flamer and Meltagun
FA Drop Pod (for rets)
Heavy Support
Storm Raven w/ AC & MM
Basic strategy:
Celestine, sanguinary priest & sanguinary guard make up a quick, hard hitting unit that can cause damage to MEQs, vehicles & MC, then voltron to grab objectives. Two BSS act as fearless backfield objective holders and can bog down things in assault. The Tac squad in the drop pod can land, flame/melta things then contest/hold objectives. Retributers land flame/rend then go for objectives, Dominions outflank and melta/flame, the stormraven can provide some semblance of air power and kill ground stuff.
There were three missions repeated on Sunday (full packets at www.whatc.org).
Game 1 (progressive objectives, emperors will and control the center,Vanguard deployment)
Orks w/ Battlewagon spam with a bike star. He scouted the battlewagons (two full of lootas, the rest with boyz). We only finished four turns, and the SG/Celestine group took a little while to kill off abotu twenty boys, but by the end I had control of the center, both Emperor's will objectives, while his mostly empty wagons were on the progressives. I won like 22 to 12. If it had gone to a turn five (finished four with two minutes left) it would have been much closer, though I would have killed a couple more battlewagons.
Game 2 Kill Points, Bonus slay the warlord and marked for death, dawn of war deployment)
My opponent ran Ultramarines with gladius (so like 5 drop pods, a few razorbacks and a bunch of tac, assault and scout squads) plus a lascannon dev squad, 3x grav cents, a chapter master on a bike and Tiggy in the Librarius Conclave and a chaplain in one of the pods. He went first but perils Tiggy twice in a row, taking him down to two wounds. Brutal. He also didn't get invis or levitation, so his powers kinda sucked up front. I brought the rets in first turn, they landed and caused like twelves wounds, with like five rends on the librarius/cent star joined as a unit. And with the CM on the far side with the only invul, it went down hill quick. Tiggy died as the warlord due to a filed look out sir, one other libby died as did two of the grav cents I think. His turn two he shot/assaulted the rets to death, but they already did damage and slay the warlord. I brought in the stormraven and finished off the last grav cent, then outflanked the doms and killed his final libby. Celestine/SG ran through bolter marines and she killed the chaplain in a challenge, while the bolter girls assaulted and killed squads. By the time we finished, I think I had lost the rets, the immolater and nothing else. His libbies were all gone, the grav cents, devs, assault squads and most of the tac squads and their drop pods were gone. It was a bit one sided, thanks in large part to his unlucky rolls and the rets being all stars, game ended 33-0.
Game 3 (progressive objectives, the relic, hammer/anvil deployment)
My opponent ran decurion w/nemesor, a coupld ghost arks, warrior blobs, a scythe with immortals and the destroyer cult with 3x heavy destroyers, and 2x 3 destroyers. This game did not go well for me. I was a bit too conservative in my deployment and the decurion is so resilient; I deployed in terrain and used my smaller BSS and tac squad to take my near two progressives while sending the big BSS towards the relic, the SG/Celestine towards his heavy destroyers and the Rets on the same flank. The doms did a few wounds to destroyers, but they stood back up. His rolls were pretty solid (one round of 14 wounds was 13 4+ armor saves, and one 4+ reanimation protocol for example). By the end of the time, I think it was 33-0 in his favor. I should have deployed way more aggressive to force morale checks on the warrior blobs and sweep them, kill off the destroyers/heavy destroyers and take down the ghost arks resurrecting warriors. Brutal, but a good learning point.
Day two:
Game 1 (progressive objectives, emperors will and control the center,Vanguard deployment)
Orks: Green Tide with a Stompa and two squads of Gretchin. My goal was to pop the Stompa and whittle the green tide down then stick it in combat with several units at once. It didn't go super well. Of the many, many melta shots taken against it, I never got the final hull point off. I caused three HP on an overwatch, but between the tac squad, doms, a power fist, the storm raven shooting at it not once, but twice in double tap range; I just could not take it down. And it wasn't full of Meks! Just pure bad rolling on my part. By the end of the game Celestine and the big BSS were all that was left. She was holding one emperor's will and the BSS on a back field progressive. One grot squad was toast and the 100ish green tide boys were much smaller, but it was still one sided, like 27-5. If I had popped the stompa on turn two (as I probably should have) then I could have just shot and assaulted the boys to oblivion, wiped both grot squads and taken progressives and emperor's will. But oh well, the dice gods are fickle.
Game 2 ( Kill Points, Bonus slay the warlord and marked for death, dawn of war deployment)
I played a BA player running a stormraven with chaplain and DC, a couple razorbacks with assault cannons, two las preds, a couple drop pods and the stormraven/stormtalon formation. He went first and shot with some lascannons, maybe killing a sister. My first turn I tried to stick the tac squad with melta between the las preds... then scattered right between them and off the board into oblivion, rolling a 1. Pretty downhill from there. My opponent was awesome and knew I was more or less toast from then on. We played it onward, but by the time the DC assaulted what was left of my SG, and Celestine failed her reanimation, the game was more or less over. My SG failed a lot of armor saves, the Rets and Doms failed to kill much of anything, and the BSS were just sitting in cover on backfield objectives. We called it with like forty minutes left. If the Tac squad had landed and popped a las pred, the game probably would have been close; the SG/Celestine star eat marines for lunch; but it wasn't meant to be. 33-0 in his favor.
Game 3 (progressive objectives, the relic, hammer/anvil deployment)
My final opponent of the ATC was a pure IG player running Pask in a punisher with a demolisher (the plasma one, whatever its called) three vet squads in chimeras with plas/melta, a CCS in a chimera, a blob with autocannons, HB and a Commissar, and two vendettas with small squads in them. I put the two BSS in cover and reserved everything else. He went first and killed a couple girls in the small BSS on the back objective, then my Tac squad came in turn one, and did some damage then died to various fire. The Celestine/SG deep struck on the flank away from Pask, the Doms outflanked to the same side and the two started to go to work, walking through the blob, killing off a chimera and vet squad. The rets dropped in on the relic and moved into cover. His vendettas arrived and shot at the BSS, then went skimmer and shot at the Rets on the Relic. Celestine and the SG walked through the blob, while my stormraven popped the plasma leman russ and stunned pask. By my turn five I had popped most of the chimeras, Pask was dead, the Vendettas were empty and trying to shoot the rets in cover with the relic, and all his ground troops (save the CCS in a chimera) were done. I had only lost my tac squad and stormraven. Final score was 33-0 for me.
All in all, it was a really fun tournament. The venue wasn't deluxe, but there was a lot of space and they were pretty good about sticking to timelines. I would have preferred only two games on Sunday due to a long drive back. Each of my opponents was a nice guy and I enjoyed the games. Both Ork players called strong Waaughs, which I respect. I think if I had been more aggressive with the BSS and had a little different dice rolls; I could have been 4-2 or maybe 5-1; definitely could have made a few more points and then best in codex would have been a reality. It was a great time and seeing the various armies, players and 40k fans was wonderful.
Ran the Sisters at ATC this year, finishing with a 3-3 record and 93 points, second to the #1 sisters player at 96 points.
Spoiler:
My list:
SoB:
HQ Celestine
Jacobus
Priest
Priest
Troops:
BSS x 20, MM, Meltagun (Jacobus + priest)
BSS x 12 HB, Meltagun (priest)
FA Dominions x 5, 4x meltaguns, in a HF Immolater
HS Retributers x 8 w/3x Heavy Flamers (in the extra Drop Pod)
Allies:
Blood Angels
HQ Sanguinary Priest with relic jump pack, bolt pistol, extra weapon
Elites
Sanguinary Guard x 8 w/Chapter Banner, PFx 1, Inferno Pistol x 2, 3 axes & 4 swords
Troops
Tac Squad x 10 in drop pod w/ Combi melta, Heavy Flamer and Meltagun
FA Drop Pod (for rets)
Heavy Support
Storm Raven w/ AC & MM
Basic strategy:
Celestine, sanguinary priest & sanguinary guard make up a quick, hard hitting unit that can cause damage to MEQs, vehicles & MC, then voltron to grab objectives. Two BSS act as fearless backfield objective holders and can bog down things in assault. The Tac squad in the drop pod can land, flame/melta things then contest/hold objectives. Retributers land flame/rend then go for objectives, Dominions outflank and melta/flame, the stormraven can provide some semblance of air power and kill ground stuff.
There were three missions repeated on Sunday (full packets at www.whatc.org).
Game 1 (progressive objectives, emperors will and control the center,Vanguard deployment)
Orks w/ Battlewagon spam with a bike star. He scouted the battlewagons (two full of lootas, the rest with boyz). We only finished four turns, and the SG/Celestine group took a little while to kill off abotu twenty boys, but by the end I had control of the center, both Emperor's will objectives, while his mostly empty wagons were on the progressives. I won like 22 to 12. If it had gone to a turn five (finished four with two minutes left) it would have been much closer, though I would have killed a couple more battlewagons.
Game 2 Kill Points, Bonus slay the warlord and marked for death, dawn of war deployment)
My opponent ran Ultramarines with gladius (so like 5 drop pods, a few razorbacks and a bunch of tac, assault and scout squads) plus a lascannon dev squad, 3x grav cents, a chapter master on a bike and Tiggy in the Librarius Conclave and a chaplain in one of the pods. He went first but perils Tiggy twice in a row, taking him down to two wounds. Brutal. He also didn't get invis or levitation, so his powers kinda sucked up front. I brought the rets in first turn, they landed and caused like twelves wounds, with like five rends on the librarius/cent star joined as a unit. And with the CM on the far side with the only invul, it went down hill quick. Tiggy died as the warlord due to a filed look out sir, one other libby died as did two of the grav cents I think. His turn two he shot/assaulted the rets to death, but they already did damage and slay the warlord. I brought in the stormraven and finished off the last grav cent, then outflanked the doms and killed his final libby. Celestine/SG ran through bolter marines and she killed the chaplain in a challenge, while the bolter girls assaulted and killed squads. By the time we finished, I think I had lost the rets, the immolater and nothing else. His libbies were all gone, the grav cents, devs, assault squads and most of the tac squads and their drop pods were gone. It was a bit one sided, thanks in large part to his unlucky rolls and the rets being all stars, game ended 33-0.
Game 3 (progressive objectives, the relic, hammer/anvil deployment)
My opponent ran decurion w/nemesor, a coupld ghost arks, warrior blobs, a scythe with immortals and the destroyer cult with 3x heavy destroyers, and 2x 3 destroyers. This game did not go well for me. I was a bit too conservative in my deployment and the decurion is so resilient; I deployed in terrain and used my smaller BSS and tac squad to take my near two progressives while sending the big BSS towards the relic, the SG/Celestine towards his heavy destroyers and the Rets on the same flank. The doms did a few wounds to destroyers, but they stood back up. His rolls were pretty solid (one round of 14 wounds was 13 4+ armor saves, and one 4+ reanimation protocol for example). By the end of the time, I think it was 33-0 in his favor. I should have deployed way more aggressive to force morale checks on the warrior blobs and sweep them, kill off the destroyers/heavy destroyers and take down the ghost arks resurrecting warriors. Brutal, but a good learning point.
Day two:
Game 1 (progressive objectives, emperors will and control the center,Vanguard deployment)
Orks: Green Tide with a Stompa and two squads of Gretchin. My goal was to pop the Stompa and whittle the green tide down then stick it in combat with several units at once. It didn't go super well. Of the many, many melta shots taken against it, I never got the final hull point off. I caused three HP on an overwatch, but between the tac squad, doms, a power fist, the storm raven shooting at it not once, but twice in double tap range; I just could not take it down. And it wasn't full of Meks! Just pure bad rolling on my part. By the end of the game Celestine and the big BSS were all that was left. She was holding one emperor's will and the BSS on a back field progressive. One grot squad was toast and the 100ish green tide boys were much smaller, but it was still one sided, like 27-5. If I had popped the stompa on turn two (as I probably should have) then I could have just shot and assaulted the boys to oblivion, wiped both grot squads and taken progressives and emperor's will. But oh well, the dice gods are fickle.
Game 2 ( Kill Points, Bonus slay the warlord and marked for death, dawn of war deployment)
I played a BA player running a stormraven with chaplain and DC, a couple razorbacks with assault cannons, two las preds, a couple drop pods and the stormraven/stormtalon formation. He went first and shot with some lascannons, maybe killing a sister. My first turn I tried to stick the tac squad with melta between the las preds... then scattered right between them and off the board into oblivion, rolling a 1. Pretty downhill from there. My opponent was awesome and knew I was more or less toast from then on. We played it onward, but by the time the DC assaulted what was left of my SG, and Celestine failed her reanimation, the game was more or less over. My SG failed a lot of armor saves, the Rets and Doms failed to kill much of anything, and the BSS were just sitting in cover on backfield objectives. We called it with like forty minutes left. If the Tac squad had landed and popped a las pred, the game probably would have been close; the SG/Celestine star eat marines for lunch; but it wasn't meant to be. 33-0 in his favor.
Game 3 (progressive objectives, the relic, hammer/anvil deployment)
My final opponent of the ATC was a pure IG player running Pask in a punisher with a demolisher (the plasma one, whatever its called) three vet squads in chimeras with plas/melta, a CCS in a chimera, a blob with autocannons, HB and a Commissar, and two vendettas with small squads in them. I put the two BSS in cover and reserved everything else. He went first and killed a couple girls in the small BSS on the back objective, then my Tac squad came in turn one, and did some damage then died to various fire. The Celestine/SG deep struck on the flank away from Pask, the Doms outflanked to the same side and the two started to go to work, walking through the blob, killing off a chimera and vet squad. The rets dropped in on the relic and moved into cover. His vendettas arrived and shot at the BSS, then went skimmer and shot at the Rets on the Relic. Celestine and the SG walked through the blob, while my stormraven popped the plasma leman russ and stunned pask. By my turn five I had popped most of the chimeras, Pask was dead, the Vendettas were empty and trying to shoot the rets in cover with the relic, and all his ground troops (save the CCS in a chimera) were done. I had only lost my tac squad and stormraven. Final score was 33-0 for me.
All in all, it was a really fun tournament. The venue wasn't deluxe, but there was a lot of space and they were pretty good about sticking to timelines. I would have preferred only two games on Sunday due to a long drive back. Each of my opponents was a nice guy and I enjoyed the games. Both Ork players called strong Waaughs, which I respect. I think if I had been more aggressive with the BSS and had a little different dice rolls; I could have been 4-2 or maybe 5-1; definitely could have made a few more points and then best in codex would have been a reality. It was a great time and seeing the various armies, players and 40k fans was wonderful.
Great job! Thanks for the reports. ATC is a tough meta for a pure Sisters list. Battle companies do OBSEC spam better and mission #2 is a virtual auto-loss for the common sister builds given the death star friendly nature of the ATC missions. I ended up playing one of the only Eldar lists without a wraith knight there this year as part of my team. I missed having the Sisters though. Much more fun army to play with.
Thanks PanzerLeader, pure sisters is super hard in the meta; they could really used drop pods and stormravens or at least vendettas. We were one of the few teams without an Eldar or SM player.
I tried out a Sisters and Guard army tonight. The opponent had two of the big bloodthursters with the Strength D axe, three Imperial Knights with the fist and the sword, and two squads of cultist. The mission was a kill points mission. I brought 16 kill points to the table, he brought 7, so things were stacked heavy in his favor. Kill points wise he won hands down, but I made him pay for it. At the end of the game he had one half strength squad of cultist and I had my Vendetta, Basilisk, Exorcist, Immolator and two sisters squads left. If the cultist had failed a moral check and ran off the table I would have won by tabling him. All and all a close and exciting game.
Nice. I had a similar game against Tyranids last night with a far different result. We were playing the Tyranid Altar of War Mission where I'm trying to get frightened populace off of my table edge (short edges) while he's trying to get them off of his (long table edges). Each populace is 6VP, with the only other VP being kill points. I get the middle 24", his deployment area is 3" in on both long edges, with 9" separating us. When his second turn started, all he had remaining was a Flyrant, a Termigant squad that had just failed its leadership on instinctive behavior and chose to flee, a wounded Carnifex that was no longer in synapse range, and a half-sized squad of Hormigaunts that were no longer in synapse range and chose to flee against my entire army minus two Immolators. His Tervigon and a Carnifex died T1 due to focused fire, his second Carnifex died T2 to focused fire, and his Warriors died T2 to melta guns from a Dominion Squad in a Repressor. Due to snap firing, being dead, or still being inside transports, my flamers never fired a shot.
List below:
Uriah Jacobus - 100
Priest with Power Maul - 40
Priest with Litanies of Faith - 40
5 Battle Sisters with flamer, heavy flamer, Immolator w/ TL-Multi Melta: 135
5 Battle Sisters with flamer, heavy flamer, Immolator w/ TL-Multi Melta: 135
5 Battle Sisters with flamer, heavy flamer, Immolator w/ TL-Multi Melta: 135
20 Battle Sisters with flamer, heavy bolter, Immolator w/ TL-Multi Melta: 315
5 Dominions with 4 melta guns, combi-melta w/ Rhino: 155 (was an Immolator until I started unpacking and realized I miscounted how many I own)
5 Dominions with 4 melta guns, combi-melta w/ Repressor: 190 (see above, upgrades Immolator to Repressor after downgrading other Immo to Rhino)
Exorcist: 125
Exorcist with Storm Bolter: 130 (never fired storm bolter, only look to fill out points after downgrading to the Rhino)
Since I was forced in the middle from the scenario, the tanks were either all back-to-back on deployment or backed up against terrain. Jacobus and the two preachers were part of the blob squad. Everything else was inside its transport. Opponent failed to seize.
T1: Dominions in Rhino disembarked after moving 6, put four wounds into the Tervigon, Exorcist on that flank finished it off, backlash killed 6 Termigants, 6 Hormigaunts and left no synapse on that side of the table. Other Exorcist, an Immolator, and the blob squad opened fire on a Carnifex, dropped it. Repressor moved to opponent's right flank on side of table furthest from where he was sitting (the side that still had synapse) and backed up against a building in case the Flyrant decided to go after it.. Immolator fired at Termigant brood (only target in LoS), scored a casualty. Last Immolator fired at Carnifex on its side and scored a wound.
OT1: Hormigaunts failed leadership and fled, Termigants failed and chose to Lurk. Units that could advance did. Psychic phase was usless (negated a power used on blob due to Adamantium Will, failed to negate one on an Exorcist but passed Shield of Faith roll), Termigants fired at rear armor on Immolator and failed to do anything, Carnifex on flank near Repressor wrecked the same Immolator, squad inside disembarked after passing Ld test. Warriors fell five Sisters from the Blob but unit was fearless. Flyrant and wounded Carnifex wrecked an Immolator, squad inside failed test and had to Snap Fire. Warriors failed charge (unit chose not to Overwatch), Hormagaunts near Flyrant failed charge, last Hormagaunt squad passed charge, took some wounds in Overwatch, then proceeded to get slaughtered by auto-passed War Hymns + Counterattack.
T2: Dominions re-embarked Rhino, it moved toward Flyrant. Still moving Immolator on same flank turned a bit so as to not expose side or rear armor to Flyrant. Repressor advanced toward Warriors, still mobile Immolator (empty, it was the one for the blob squad) and Exorcist on same flank repositioned for better LoS. Non-snap firing squad advanced toward Termigaunts. Snap Firing squad advanced toward Hormitgaunts. Flyrant's side: Exorcist, Immolator, Rhino, two Dominions failed to inflict any wounds due to jinking and Snap Firing. Snap Firing squad killed off enough gaunts to get them out of synapse with Hive Tyrant. Warrior side: Dominions in Repressor instant-death all three Warriors with three wounds from melta guns, Exorcist, Immolator and blob take down the Carnifex on that side. Forget to fire non-Snap Firing squad.
OT2: Termigants flee, Hormigaunts flee. leaving him with unwounded Flyrant and wounded Carnifex who is also out of Synapse range.
The Basilisk works great. It is nice being able to reach out and drop a template at the far corner of the board. It was a nice weapon against the Knights and the cultist in the far corner alike. It was also very lucky it's first game at rolled a 'hit' every time I shot it!
BTW, I am working on my Sisters + Guard List and have two I am working on.
This:
Spoiler:
Saint Celestine 135
Red Squad (5 Battle Sisters): meltagun; heavy flamer 80
• Immolator: twin-linked multi-melta 60
Green Squad (5 Battle Sisters): meltagun; heavy flamer 80
• Immolator: twin-linked multi-melta 60
Purple Squad (5 Battle Sisters): meltagun; heavy flamer 80
• Immolator: twin-linked multi-melta 60
Orange Squad (5 Battle Sisters): meltagun; heavy flamer 80
• Immolator: twin-linked multi-melta 60
Hi,
Thank you for your email. The Repressor kit needs to be extensively remastered, which is why it is not currently available on our new website. Periodically master models need some work so we can continue to produce moulds, this means we have to take the products off sale for a time to replace and repair the master models and then produce new moulds. The amount of time this takes depends on many factors including the level of detail in the model and the level of work the designers and mould makers already have scheduled. Unfortunately this means we can not give an accurate estimate of how long they will be unavailable for, but we do intend to bring it back.
How would you rate my reply?
Great Okay Not Good
If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.
Taikishi wrote: Hi,
Thank you for your email. The Repressor kit needs to be extensively remastered, which is why it is not currently available on our new website. Periodically master models need some work so we can continue to produce moulds, this means we have to take the products off sale for a time to replace and repair the master models and then produce new moulds. The amount of time this takes depends on many factors including the level of detail in the model and the level of work the designers and mould makers already have scheduled. Unfortunately this means we can not give an accurate estimate of how long they will be unavailable for, but we do intend to bring it back.
Well, yay it's coming back but boo who know how long it will be?
Why do I always feel like my Sisters are always at the back of a long queue? - one that keeps getting longer!
Since the current GW design seems to directed towards combined Imperial forces (outside things like Gladius), I assume the best thing to do with Sisters is to combine them with one or more other Imperial forces. I was wondering if anyone who has tried any of these could share their thoughts and clarify whether my gut is right.
Firstly, as much as I hate to say it, I do not believe Sisters are really a good choice for a Primary Detachment. They have been neglected for so long and lack so many tools that I feel they would be better as allies to another force than the reverse. Am I being too dismissive of my old Sisters, or realistic? The Imperial factions that are undeniably solid as Primary Detachments are Guard and Marines:
* Sisters bring sturdy (Sv3+) infantry with masses of flamers and meltas in Rhino chassis. For a primary Guard Detachment, this would clearly add something useful to an armoured corp in place of Veterans. Foot-slogging Sisters (with Seraphim) would probably also be a useful addition to an Infantry corp, though may not be the best allies choice available to them. In reverse, Guard bring cheap bodies/armour with anti-air, Fliers, pie and long-range dakka, all of which Sisters lack, but I believe you need too many Guard units for them to be mere allies to a Primary Sisters Detachment.
* For Marines, I am not sure the Sisters bring much to the pairing. They are *slightly* cheaper, but I suspect the Marines already have better options in all categories. For the Sisters, the Marines would bring Plasma, Lascannons, Fliers, anti-air, etc. Essentially, Marines already have all the tools, so you may as well just run them by themselves (or, at least, with anyone OTHER than Sisters as allies).
Looking at the other Imperial sub-factions, I believe they would have to be taken with Sisters as the primary:
* Adeptus Mechanicus, by the fluff, is a terrible idea. They hate each other. Then again, Khorne and Slaanesh do too, yet GW have combined them for years! Cult Mechanicus bring some long-range Dakka, but I am not convinced they make a good combination with Sisters. Skitarii are a little more interesting with their Walkers, who help the Sisters spam more armour and add in long-range dakka. This could be a more interesting combination, but would it be a better choice than Guard (who already do the same thing)?
* Imperial Knights seem like a no-brainer for any Imperial army. I am a little concerned about bringing one of these to a standard 40K game though. It may be legal, but would dropping one of these on a random pick-up game at 1500 points be a good way to not make friends?
* Inquisition seem to me like the appendix: a little thing stuck to our intestines that hangs around despite evolution and could have been cut out without any issue. I suppose they are a way to add Valkyries, but they do not strike me as a terribly good addition. Am I wrong?
* Legion of the Damned are one I never thought to see make a return. I guess they make a pretty decent distraction, but I think they would only be worth including if I already owned the models. Am I under-rating these guys?
* Militarum Tempestus add more infantry, who individually seem less appealing than more Sisters, but they come with Valkyries, which are slightly more appealing. I was never a fan of Inquisitorial Stormtroopers in Codex: Witchhunters (more Sisters were always the better option, IMO), but are these a better choice now?
* Officio Assassinorum seem like they are back to their prime. With changes to the core rules (eg Warlords, Psychic Phase) and their own updated rules, including one of these seems like a no brainer. I already own (and have painted) all of these, but have not run one in a looong time. Am I right that they are back and a solid choice?
I am trying to work out what I need to collect to make my Sisters more interesting/competitive under seventh. Any tips here would be greatly appreciated!
I'm a firm believer that sister are very valuable as a primary. Even in tournaments, Panzerleader is the living proof of that.
Why? We can take two specials in 5-girl squats,
Dominions have 4 scouting ignore cover melta guns (NO other codex have that, not even the marines).
Exorcist are best taken in dupicates, two or three will either cause a lot of damage or distracts the opponnent from shooting other things in your force.
In case your meta allows FW, Repressors! That is one super rhino!
St. Celestine en Uriah, both superb hq choices.
And last but not least, everything has 6++. It saved my ass more that I can remember.
The're a lot more valuable tactics that I probably forgot to mention,
So are sister valuable as a primary, I would say YES!
As for the allies part, ever considerd adding the land raider spearhead? Put dominions inside and you have 3 scout fortresses terrorising the opponent, the land raiders ignore all damage results execpt immobelized and destroyed, the re-roll to wound and if you take IH as your chapter tactics you get IWND too!
I don't know much about the mechanicus so I won't comment on that.
The knights seem more imposing then they are, A regular 1500 point army should be able to deal with a single knight.
The inquisition are awesome as allies, with the liber heresius you get another scouting unit for only 40 points. It gives you dirty cheap units and the chimera's still have the old 5 firing points.
I don't know enough about the others to give you decent advice about them.
I am trying to work out what I need to collect to make my Sisters more interesting/competitive under seventh. Any tips here would be greatly appreciated!
Unfortunately I think interesting and competitive are mutually exclusive with most 40k armies and doubly so with Sisters.
Interesting (for me) = Penitent engines, Seraphim and Sororitas Command Squads in the mix
Competitive = Celestine, Dominion Squads, Immolators, priests with Sisters blobs and Exorcists*
*Other opinions are available
I tend to build a core of the "competitive units" and sling in a few interesting ones for character
@Elric: Sisters are extremely good as a primary detachment. Your base infantry comes with adamantium will (great for denying witchfires like shriek that tend to kill low model, high armor units) and power armor. You also get BS4 base, which I tend to value more highly than any other profile statistic. Most squads also get to stack special weapons which makes them highly efficient. My core consists of Celestine, 2 BSS squads in Rhinos with heavy flamer/flamer, 3 dominion squads with 4x melta in immolators (though I'm transitioning to Repressors for FW allowing events to make Eldar bikes weep in frustration), and 3x exorcists. This has a ton of AP1 firepower and a good assault unit to pick on enemy shooting units in melee.
I think AM make the best allies myself. Wyverns add a great barrage element that is lacking in the Sisters codex and massed plasma helps shore up the quality ranged firepower in the 12-24" band generally lacking in Sisters units.
Marines are ok allies. They tend to be pricier than Guard and don't bring special weapons as effectively. You could make a really interesting list using drop pods to complement the scouting dominions for a fun alpha-strike list.
Knights I think are weak in a Sisters build. They cost too much and you don't have enough bodies to screen them effectively. Guard blobs are cheaper, larger, and hit harder in assault. You end up leaving too many vulnerabilities for a good player to exploit to kill a knight.
In 3 detachment scenarios, I tend to like the Inquisitor with servo skulls and liber hersius to add a scouting plasma gun squad and deny scout/infiltrate. The other fun option for me is a culexus in a rhino.
I've been away for a while. I was leafing through the new marines codex and had thoughts about mixing sisters with Raven Guard. Specifically, I was going for a massed jump army theme. I am just wondering how effective it would be.
I'm thinking:
St. Celestine w/2 squads of seraphim
1 Dominion in drop pod
2 BSS in immolators
Shrike
2(?) squads of jump marines
1 scout squad in LSS 1 sniper scout squad
Drop Pod
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hey all.
I've been away for a while. I was leafing through the new marines codex and had thoughts about mixing sisters with Raven Guard. Specifically, I was going for a massed jump army theme. I am just wondering how effective it would be.
I'm thinking:
St. Celestine w/2 squads of seraphim
1 Dominion in drop pod
2 BSS in immolators
Shrike
2(?) squads of jump marines
1 scout squad in LSS 1 sniper scout squad
Drop Pod
This is all just in the idea stage, so any and all input is appreciated.
Librarians (ML2, Jump Pack, Meltabombs)
Scout Squad (CCW) w/ Land Speeder Storm (MM)
Drop Pod
Repentia go in the drop pod along with both priests and drop in turn 1. Everything else scouts forward and shoots their melta stuff.
You should be ok against most lists. Horde armies, like Greentide, will give you problems since you don't have a true anti-horde unit. Demons are just a tough matchup in general with their ability to protect multiple units between Grimoire, Cursed Earth, and guaranteed invisibility/shroud on Belakor. What type of missions are you playing?
Green is Best! wrote: No idea what type of missions. Assuming two are objective based and one is kill points.
I am really curious to see how people react to repentia dropping in their back ranks. It has the potential to allow hilarity to ensue.
So its hard to give more specific advise without knowing more about the mission types. You'll need a decent draw in kill points or it can be a real uphill battle. Sisters army just have a lot since they are most often MSU builds.
My suspicion is that you'll be better served dropping the repentia on to a mid-field objective. You won't do enough damage to his backfield on turn 1 to deplete enough combat power and 12 T3 wounds aren't very survivable. Drop them mid-field near and objective and in cover, able to move and assault next turn against anything that threatens your scouting elements or tries to move upfield.
Yeah. Kill point missions generally mean table your oppoent or lose for sisters. I'm not really sure how to use the repentia. I only used them once as part of a repnetant host formation. That was easy. They just ran behind the penitent engines. But, they generally destroyed anything they touched.
Won't they just get shot to pieces the turn they come in?
No, they cannot assault.
Yes, they can get shot to pieces on that turn.
However, that is the point of also having scouting dominions, scouting LSS with a MM, and the seraphim advancing. Its all arriving in your face pretty quickly. The hope is you can't shoot all of it. And, you don't need too many repentia to survive. It only takes 3 or 4 to break most vehicles.
So I'm headed to a NOVA prep RTT tomorrow and I'll post a summary when I'm back. Here is the current version of my list for those interested. I'll be trying out a Culexus tomorrow to see if he'll make a bigger difference than an Inquisitor.
Ordre de Notre Dame d’Aqutaine [Order of Our Lady of Aquitaine]
(Adepta Sororitas Combined Arms Detachment)
HQ St. Gudula de Brabant IV
Saint Celestine (135 points)
TROOPS
Les soeurs de gloire
Battle Sister Squad: Sister Superior [WARLORD] + 4 sisters, Rhino APC (100 points)
Les soeurs d’honneur
Battle Sister Squad: Sister Superior + 4 sisters, Rhino APC (100 points)
FAST ATTACK
Les chasseurs de victoire
Dominion Squad: Sister Superior + 4 sisters, 4x meltagun, Immolator APC with twin-linked multi-melta, laud hailer (175 points)
Les chasseurs dominantes
Dominion Squad: Sister Superior + 4 sisters, 4x meltagun, Immolator APC with twin-linked multi-melta, laud hailer (175 points)
Les chasseurs volants
Dominion Squad: Sister Superior + 4 sisters, 4x meltagun, Immolator APC with twin-linked multi-melta (165 points)
HEAVY SUPPORT
Le tueur des fantomes
Exorcist (125 points)
heavy support
total points 250
exorcist
125
exorcist
125
It's not allowed to display the exact costs of your army this way.
Advice:
replace the sixth seraphim with the litanies of faith for one of your priests.
And maybe you can find the space for 3 Simalcrums. Because you have 2 units of 8. It's worth the points for a second act of faith.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yesterday I played a 1000 point game vs BA. We played maelstorm and I won big time
Spoiler:
My list:
Cannoness, book of st. lucius, (Got warlord thrait with the extra card on the first turn.)
I started, while he failed to seize.
We played the mission in wich you have the amount of tactical objectives equal to the turn.
I drew secure objective 2 and 5. (One extra because of the warlord trait.) Number 2 was in the middel atop of a three story building, 5 was just out of his deployment zone.
My dominons grabbed both objectives, The ones at objective 2 had to disembark, the other Dominions stayed inside. The rest of my army except the exorcist moved 6 inch forward.
In my shooting fase I blew up is Whirlwind with a exorcist and the HKM. The tank took 2 scouts with him.
The rest shot at a assault squat, killing both melta's (bad deployment from him) and about 2 others. Enough to break them and led them flee of the board!
In his turn, the other assault squad assaulted my dominions squat at objective two. He issued a challenge so he got his objective. One sister survived the mayhem, and made her moral check. This was unfortunate cause now I wasn't able to shoot at the squat.
His sanguinary guard moved up to other Dominion squad, but he failed a difficult terrain check for the woods he was landing in, killing his inferno pistol guy that was in melta range. Ouch... In the end he wrecked my rhino in the assault face.
My second turn, I drew secure objective 4 and Issue a challenge... Not a good draw since objective 4 was in his deployment zone with 8 scouts on it and unreachable except for my Dominons who just got out a wreck.
I moved my Retributers up to the side of the sanguinary guard and disembarked, The rest of the army moved further up.
In the shooting face I wrecked face! doing 20 wounds with the retributers from wich he failed 5. So the sanguinary guard was dead and the Libby lost a wound. I then shot with three rhinos, a embarked BSS squad and an exorcist at the libby to slay him. Slay the warlord for me!
The dominions on their way to objective 4, accidently shot down the sergeant. (He did as he was the third model in line..) So no challenge for me, and no objective 4.
In his face he had to secure objective 3 and Kill a verhicle. He glanced a rhino to death, the BSS got out and contested objective 3 versus his Scouts.
In this assault face the assault squad that had wrecked my rhino charge me but failed to do much besides killing one bolter sister. They hold their ground and therefore denied him objective 3.
After two turns: BA, 2 points, AS, 4 points.
Last turn I forgot to discard an objective.... I drew one extra.. And what do you know! Secure Objective 3!
This turn my Retributers embarked on their rhino and drove towards objective 4 together with my BSS squad and my canonness. My lone Dominion rhino tank shocked his scouts at objective 3. He failed he Ld test and ran. So i where to survive combat then I would claim the objective.
After that I shot all but one scout at objective 4. Slaying all but one, But he was to far away to contest the objective.
In combat I survived with two sisters, (as always failing to do anything in return) unfortunatly I failed my Ld test and ran. (I got away though!) I discarded the issue a challenge card.
In his turn,nothing really happend. His assault squad wrecked the rhino with the BSS and the Canonness and failed to do anything against my rhino at objective 3.
In my turn I had the best draw ever! I drew another secure objective 3, which I was already claiming with my rhino. I had secure objective 6 and Dominion. (secure them all.)
He was claiming nor contesting anything and everything was within range. This turn my Retributers killed about 5 assault marines while the rest claimed objectives. Giving me a wopping 8 points!
In his turn he claimed to points for objective 3 (he wrecked my rhino) and objective 4. (His assault squad killed my dominions and denied my Line Breaker.)
End result: BA 4 points. AS: 13 points.
BA Remainig: 4 assault marines, 9 scouts.
AS Remaining: 2 excorsists, a Rhino, 5 Retributers, Cannoness, 5 BSS, 2 BSS
So the NOVA prep tournament went well. I finished 2-1 with 51 battle points (tied for 2nd most in BPs). The culexus was great when I ran into a librarian conclave. He turned off invisibility on Khan's command squad and then shooting gunned them down and he really dictated what my opponent was able to do movement wise with them. I ended up losing that game because my opponent made 7+ jink saves in a row to keep his linebreaking storm talon alive. Had he failed any of them, it would have denied him the points he needed to pull ahead for the win. My victories were over a BA list with the 3 storm ravens formation that allows deep strikers to assault the turn they come in and over a wolf star.
Looking ahead to the LVO, what do you guys think of something like this:
As for the allies part, ever considerd adding the land raider spearhead? Put dominions inside and you have 3 scout fortresses terrorising the opponent, the land raiders ignore all damage results execpt immobelized and destroyed, the re-roll to wound and if you take IH as your chapter tactics you get IWND too!
I believe Scout only confers to Dedicated Transports, so no Scouting Land Raiders (unless Scout is part of the LR formation bonuses, I'm still not familiar with many if the new formations).
PanzerLeader wrote: So the NOVA prep tournament went well. I finished 2-1 with 51 battle points (tied for 2nd most in BPs). The culexus was great when I ran into a librarian conclave. He turned off invisibility on Khan's command squad and then shooting gunned them down and he really dictated what my opponent was able to do movement wise with them. I ended up losing that game because my opponent made 7+ jink saves in a row to keep his linebreaking storm talon alive. Had he failed any of them, it would have denied him the points he needed to pull ahead for the win. My victories were over a BA list with the 3 storm ravens formation that allows deep strikers to assault the turn they come in and over a wolf star.
Looking ahead to the LVO, what do you guys think of something like this:
Had a game last night using 1500 pts of Sisters with 500 pts of BA against Ultramarines. I attached St Celestine to the DC with a Chaplain...near the end of the game I was asked if St Celestine was a Monstrous Creature. Made me smile.
She is a beast that much is certain. In all honesty it came up because he drew the maelstrom card to kill and MC, but still.
Really liking BA as a second detachment, I took a a 500 pt CAD for Ob Sec infiltrating Scouts and a Chappy as HQ and the rest filled out on DC. Attach Celestine for hit and run and they can be brutal (I usually do this trick with Dante, but Celestine is much cheaper, though lacks EW and ap2) still a decent tradeoff though.
I love running Celestine with JPBA, generally with Sanguinary guard for H&R, challenging, and tanking up front. She's just a bargain and meshes really well (plus a Sanguinary Priest giving the unit FNP and +1 WS for the BA is sweet).
Well, that and not being great against 2+ guys. Some games she wipes out a unit per turn solo. Other games I lose her to S6 overwatch with no AP. (I am amazing at rolling ones.)
Mavnas wrote: Well, that and not being great against 2+ guys. Some games she wipes out a unit per turn solo. Other games I lose her to S6 overwatch with no AP. (I am amazing at rolling ones.)
Yup. But she is just so good at bullying most shooting units. For 135 points, she's a steal.
so here are two list options I need some feedback on based on my initial ITC take. What do you guys think? I like the troll potential of putting Celestine and Yarrick together but option 1 might be a little safer.
OK, another 1850pt tournament and I am considering two list.
List 1 is mostly Sisters of Battle with some Guard for fire support. The Canoness will ride with one of the Dominion squads and the Green Squad will ride in the Vendetta. The Veterans will try to shield the tanks and stuff from drop pods full of melta guns and after that if they survive they will sit in cover and snipe things with their lascannon.
List 2 is much more guard than Sisters. The Canoness will go with the Guard blob to keep them in place. She is leadership 10 and sturborn so she should do this quite well and since she is not fearless the blob can still go to ground. The special weapons squad will ride in the Vendetta
Out of two, I'd lean towards taking list #1. I think its a little better balanced. Blob squads don't work well unless you can get axes and melta bombs into them with a critical mass (somewhere between 3 and 5).
Had a game vs a foot -far list last night . They're nasty little beats on foot too aren't they?
I ended up winning, as I held.more objectives and my opponent didn't really move once he'd deployed which surprised me.
Nothing new tl bring to the table in terms of what I was running, I had a blob squad with 4 priests, jaco and Celest holding the central objective, I was expecting him to come and try to take the objective but it never happened. 2 Melta Doms, one started on the board and the other out flanked to secure line breaker and try to put a dent in his Dark Reapers as they were say on his Ob. He had an Avatar so there was so chance of his stuff running away. Exorcists sat at the back and held an objective I boltered that with a mech BSS as I knew the Exorcist would draw fire since it was big guns never tire.
A comfortable win, but not a lot really happened...
So wanting to give my sob army drop pods for a demo alpha strike. Other than that I use immo spam and exocist spam and currently like to DSSt celestine and seraphim with twin flamers.
I'm thinking I need something fast in addition to the drop pods but I have no clue about using Space marines. Any advice hints tips?
Bikes with Grav Guns - if you put your HQ character on a bike, Space Marine Bikers become a troop choice which is very handy for an allied detachment that wants to avoid Tactical Marine tax.
If you're using Space Wolves, Thunderwolf Cavalry.
I am considering trying an experiment in a tournament this Saturday. A tournament may seem like an odd place to experiment, but I will get three games or more in one day. I am going to try some Celestians. I know this is against internet wisdom, but internet wisdom is not working for me so I might as well try something new. Besides, as close as Sisters end up getting to the enemies I often end up in the assault. If I am going to end up in assault I might as well have a chance of winning or at worst make them pay a high price for what they kill.
I am going to try to keep the Celestians and hopefully the Dominions within 12" of the HQ for the squad's and Uriah's banners.
Sister Rebecca (Canoness): The Mantle of Ophelia; power axe; plasma pistol; rosarius 135
• Sororitas Rhino 40
• Pink Squad (Sororitas Command Squad): Sacred Banner of the Order Militant 105
Warlord (Uriah Jacobus) 100
Red Squad (6 Battle Sisters): meltagun; heavy flamer 92
• Immolator: twin-linked multi-melta 60
Green Squad (6 Battle Sisters): meltagun; heavy flamer 92
• Immolator: twin-linked multi-melta 60
GoonBandito wrote: Bikes with Grav Guns - if you put your HQ character on a bike, Space Marine Bikers become a troop choice which is very handy for an allied detachment that wants to avoid Tactical Marine tax.
If you're using Space Wolves, Thunderwolf Cavalry.
Thanks, can I do the bikes with grav guns from any SM like BA/DA or do I need vanilla marines for that to work?
I am considering trying an experiment in a tournament this Saturday. A tournament may seem like an odd place to experiment, but I will get three games or more in one day. I am going to try some Celestians. I know this is against internet wisdom, but internet wisdom is not working for me so I might as well try something new. Besides, as close as Sisters end up getting to the enemies I often end up in the assault. If I am going to end up in assault I might as well have a chance of winning or at worst make them pay a high price for what they kill.
Are you planning on attaching Uriah or the Canoness to the unit? I just feel like that if you're going to do this, go balls out. Stack Uriah and two priests (one with litanies) for auto-passing hymns. Arm the Celestian Superior with a power axe so that she can whack things at +1A, S5 AP2 on the charge. Take as much advantage of the first turn buff to Strength to wreck as much face as you can. Be wary of any matchups where you'll be facing lots of S6+ attacks. And good luck!
If the Cannoness does not need to go with the command squad I was thinking of putting both with the Celestian Squad and just having the command squad right behind them.
Interesting. A tournament isn't a terrible place to experiment as you know you'll be able to give them a decent run out and co e up against some tough lists, so a baptism if fire seems relevant for them and the theme of our army!
SQRT(-2) wrote: If the Cannoness does not need to go with the command squad I was thinking of putting both with the Celestian Squad and just having the command squad right behind them.
It's a tough call. Putting the Canoness and Uriah together makes the Celestian squad tankier, but it leaves the SCS vulnerable. A priest with litanies and power maul is such a good investment in CC, and it would give you options to mix and match your ICs to different squads between rounds. But you'd have to drop bodies from your Doms to afford it.
It'll certainly be a challenge! Let us know how the tourney goes.
One Dominion from each squad and one Celestian would exactly match one priest with Litanies. but as you said, running all the characters with the Celestians leaves the Command Squad vulnerable.
But the Celestians and friends would have a potential of 44 attacks on the charge (assuming the baddies don't do too much damage before they get a chance to attack, but considering the Celestians will have twinlinked 3+ and 5++ saves, the Canoness a twinlinked 3+ and 4++ with three wounds and eternal warior and the two priest with twinlinked 4++ themselves I hope they will weather things OK.)
28 attacks at S 4, WS 4, I 3
6 attacks at S 5 WS 5, I 1, AP 2
5 attacks at S 4 WS 4, I 4
5 attacks at S 4 WS 3, I 3
And all of them with Re-rolling to hit and to wound.
Close Combat gods will still come out on top but it will at least hurt.
And heck, with the banner and such Dominions and Battle Sisters piling to help may be good too? Or they could charge their own targets. Ether way, even without the buffs the Celestians will have, a bunch of sisters with an extra attack charging could work against some things. If I am going to be charged anyway, I might as well and deny them the extra attacks.
Well, considering I loose a lot (and I mean a LOT) what have I got to loose?
Hey look at this, "Smash: All of the close combat attacks, except Hammer of Wrath attacks, of a model with this
special rule are resolved at AP2 (unless it’s attacking with an AP1 weapon)." So you can use a priest with a chain sword get AP 2, Str 3, I3, with 4 attacks on the charge for 25 points, because it says "All attacks are AP 2".
Google:Terrorstorm wrote: Hey look at this, "Smash: All of the close combat attacks, except Hammer of Wrath attacks, of a model with this
special rule are resolved at AP2 (unless it’s attacking with an AP1 weapon)." So you can use a priest with a chain sword get AP 2, Str 3, I3, with 4 attacks on the charge for 25 points, because it says "All attacks are AP 2".
I like giving my priest a power maul for +2 str and the concussion vs multi wound models can be nice.
How about a 10 celestine+ five priests + jacobs + saint celestine 17 model blob? Celestines (not the saint) act of faith gives +1 strength in assult, jacobs and one preist give re-roll saves and to wound rolls and the remaining four vanilla priests each get 3 S4 ap2 smash attacks. is this a alternative blob? or is the 20 troop one better still?
Google:Terrorstorm wrote: How about a 10 celestine+ five priests + jacobs + saint celestine 17 model blob? Celestines (not the saint) act of faith gives +1 strength in assult, jacobs and one preist give re-roll saves and to wound rolls and the remaining four vanilla priests each get 3 S4 ap2 smash attacks. is this a alternative blob? or is the 20 troop one better still?
For 500 points, thar's not a particularly good unit. Sisters are not good in CC and should avoid it under most circumstances. Even our best beatsick, Celestine, is only a single failed save away from being insta-gibbed by S6 or higher. SQRT(-2) is taking a small CC unit mainly for fun and in the interest of science
First battle was against CSM with oblitorators and cultist on a landing platform and deep striking termies. It was kill points and he had brought less than half the number of kill points to the table than I had. It was table him or loose. I did well but failed to finish all the models on the platform, the save with the difficult terrain made it just too hard. The Celestians did not do much despite all the attacks, he rolled well on the 2+ saves. The Cannoness did finish off the termie squad in hand to hand though. (I softened them up with concentrated melta fire before hand.)
Second battle I was tabled because the super dense terrain made it difficult to get to the gunline space marines. The army just lacked much long range punch.
Third was against Dark Eldar and I did quite well. I wish I could say it was due to the assault, but it was more due to heavy flamers and open topped transports. But melee went well for me as well.
Findings:
* I found the command squad a good spare squad for the independent characters to fall back to if the celestian squad became too crippled to be effective.
* Power Axes are nice.
* Protect the banner, it is a tempting target.
* Further study is needed, I should try this with Guard backup.
I know it is not as competitive, but I like bringing a cannoness, even if Uriah is the warlord. She is MY cannoness, It might be 'forge a narrative' junk, but I like bringing her.
I like bringing a Canoness too, and Celestians sometimes, despite conventional thinking that they are bad. I prefer putting her in a unit of Celestians though, mainly because the Furious Charge Act of Faith is more useful than the Fleet/Crusader/Move Through Cover one a Command Squad gets. And you can take your Power Weapons/Eviscerators on the Ministorum Priests/Superior anyway.
The biggest problem is of course getting them into combat effectively. Without a 12" move (like Bikes/Beasts) or an Assault Vehicle (like Trukks/Raiders/Land Raiders), you have to do a lot of work to setup charges.
What's the most effective way to run a Sisters CC blob? Uriah as the Warlord with Celestine, with supporting buffs and Force Weapons from allied psykers? Sanctic/Biomancy/Divination etc.
I figure I can get ton of fast and mobile Obsec from allied Tempestus, so going after objectives will be outsourced as their job.
It was 1800pts, single CAD, no allies or formations. I took a mixed list:
Uriah+Celestine in a 15 strong blob, F/HF, Combo, Maul on superior
4 priests (Lits of Faith, 3 mauls, 1 sword)
2x 9 Sob F/HF Rhinos, Combi-flamer + maul on superiors
2x Melta Doms, MM Immo
2x Exorcists
Pent Engines (2 in Squad)
I put a priest with each 9 sister squad to ensure they didn't run off objectives.
Won 1, Lost 2.
Game 1 vs Tyranids
Crusade, diagonally set up. 4 objectives
My only win, but a solid one. At the end of the game I held 3 of the objectives, had first blood and line breaker. My dice actually hated me and it was a tenser game than the end result would suggest. It really game down to playing the mission and playing conservatively. PE engines were really useful despite not making it into combat but they're a great pressure unit.
Game 2 vs White Scars list.
Bikes + 1 unit of scouts and a Storm Raven and Storm Talon. Mission was the scouring. Long deployment.
3+ armour and a 3+ cover save was a real ball ache to deal with. I knew the game was over when my blob and a BBS held the middle of the board and were charged by all but 1 of his bike squads and were pulled apart. Even the priests couldn't help me here. S5 HoW for WS is stupid, especially when he was scoring a couple of hull points off my vehicles each time...one P eng made it into combat which I was really stoked about. 6A on the charge at S10, all but 2 missed and then I rolled snake eyes to wound...
By the end I think I only had a rhino left, his superior speed /flexibility meant he scored pretty much all the objectives. Massive loss 13-0
Game 3 vs DE Kill poi ts DoW deployment. All my flamers had me in good stead for this but since I had so many ICs I lost by a narrow margin. Loss 13-11
Uriah+Celestine in a 15 strong blob, F/HF, Combo, Maul on superior
4 priests (Lits of Faith, 3 mauls, 1 sword)
2x 9 Sob F/HF Rhinos, Combi-flamer + maul on superiors
2x Melta Doms, MM Immo
2x Exorcists
Pent Engines (2 in Squad)
Do you really get that much mileage out of the mauls on the superiors? Unless it's a blob, once you're in close combat, all you're looking to do is tarpit, at best. Putting 45 points into modestly improving a really bad situation is throwing good points away, IMO. I'd rather have an extra OBSEC Rhino or some combi-meltas and laud hailers on my Doms.
What's the most effective way to run a Sisters CC blob? Uriah as the Warlord with Celestine, with supporting buffs and Force Weapons from allied psykers? Sanctic/Biomancy/Divination etc.
I figure I can get ton of fast and mobile Obsec from allied Tempestus, so going after objectives will be outsourced as their job.
20 BSS with 2-3 Priests, Jacobus and Celestine is pretty decent. If you can ally in a Wolf Lord on TWC and a couple Iron Priests, it gets hilarious. Marine characters with 2+/3++ and priests with rerolls are ridiculous.
Uriah+Celestine in a 15 strong blob, F/HF, Combo, Maul on superior
4 priests (Lits of Faith, 3 mauls, 1 sword)
2x 9 Sob F/HF Rhinos, Combi-flamer + maul on superiors
2x Melta Doms, MM Immo
2x Exorcists
Pent Engines (2 in Squad)
Do you really get that much mileage out of the mauls on the superiors? Unless it's a blob, once you're in close combat, all you're looking to do is tarpit, at best. Putting 45 points into modestly improving a really bad situation is throwing good points away, IMO. I'd rather have an extra OBSEC Rhino or some combi-meltas and laud hailers on my Doms.
Oh I realise it's a total point sink and a waste, but I have the old Cannoness models with the stick and combo flamer as superiors and I've been running them WYSIWYG, I really need to extrra Battle sisters to run as superiors with no upgrades :/
What's the most effective way to run a Sisters CC blob? Uriah as the Warlord with Celestine, with supporting buffs and Force Weapons from allied psykers? Sanctic/Biomancy/Divination etc.
I figure I can get ton of fast and mobile Obsec from allied Tempestus, so going after objectives will be outsourced as their job.
20 BSS with 2-3 Priests, Jacobus and Celestine is pretty decent. If you can ally in a Wolf Lord on TWC and a couple Iron Priests, it gets hilarious. Marine characters with 2+/3++ and priests with rerolls are ridiculous.
I think this is spot on. If you are going for a melee unit, you need to commit to it. The other fun thing to try here would be: 10 Repentia, 3x Wolf Guard Battle Leader with PF/SS and 2x wolves, 4x Iron Priests. Its a disgusting 1043 points, but the entire unit is fleet and has a huge foot print. Its also majority armor 6+ so its virtually immune to grav and you can put the Iron Priests and Battle Leaders up front to tank. You also have enough beasts that you can launch an assault with the front guys and pull the repentia up field.
Tempestus doesn't really need their transports, so I've considered loading up a few min Repentia units and spitting them out into cover where it can cause threat priority problems.
They're kind of a meta killer too -- Neural Shock isn't nerfed against GMCs and Armourbane will mess up Knights. Of course I'm still only at the theory stage right now.
Had another decent game with SoB and BA last night.
Celestine is my Budget Dante', providing hit and run and a 2+ for small arms fire. They did some serious work killing a squad of termagants, plinking the last wound off a FMC, killing a hive tyrant in combat and another big beastie that I can remember the name of...
Exorcists were pivotal in securing first blood, S vs the warroirs doubled them out with ease.
Fighting a mix of griblies and MCs, I was actually really pleased with how my bloated Vet Superiors performed (modelled with combo flamer and maul). In fact I was pleased with how the battle sisters performed all game, managing to get to grips with targets they could damage and doubled teaming nicely with the BA.
The outflanking scouts offered a nice bit of flexibility in maelstrom, as I placed an objective on each side, just outside of 6", since I had the BA relic for double strategic warlord trait i had the reroll reserves failed and successful, so I could hold back the scout for when I had a card near one of the table edges...this little combo secured me a vp, so i was quite pleased.
It was actually a draw, but was a great game. My opponent was lucky with his cards (he had for cards for a single objective so scored a healthy number of points, then had 2 cards for another objective later in the game). It ended turn 5 but I might've won with another turn as he only had a single MC left with 2 wounds...and I still had a good number of units.
Been working with the idea of making a melee deathstar with BA and sob wondering how to make it all work and have a good delivery system with it. Could use a lot of work but here is the skeleton of the star
St celestine for hq 2 or more priest (power weps optional)
mephiston
With mephiston take the Prescience power from divination and get lucky with the sanctuary daemonology power. Get both of those off during the psy phase and then get into melee with something. The two priest use The Righteousness of the Emperor and The Emperor Protects with any extra priest use The Emperor’s Strength. rolling on ld 10 from st celestine.
Now while in combat you have re-rolls to:
To-hit
To-wound
Armor & invul saves (with invul saves being a 3+ from sanctuary and every priest has a rosary)
As well as:
Zealot (redundent)
Fearless
Hit and run
DTW on targeted powers on either a 3+ or 4+ depending on psyker lvl
Not sure what to add/ tweek with it but thinking maybe either a Librarian, or some thing.
I've been thinking of doing this with a flesh tearers formation from shield of baal to add drop pods for sisters to use as well
Oberron wrote: Been working with the idea of making a melee deathstar with BA and sob wondering how to make it all work and have a good delivery system with it. Could use a lot of work but here is the skeleton of the star
St celestine for hq 2 or more priest (power weps optional)
mephiston
With mephiston take the Prescience power from divination and get lucky with the sanctuary daemonology power. Get both of those off during the psy phase and then get into melee with something. The two priest use The Righteousness of the Emperor and The Emperor Protects with any extra priest use The Emperor’s Strength. rolling on ld 10 from st celestine.
Now while in combat you have re-rolls to:
To-hit
To-wound
Armor & invul saves (with invul saves being a 3+ from sanctuary and every priest has a rosary)
As well as:
Zealot (redundent)
Fearless
Hit and run
DTW on targeted powers on either a 3+ or 4+ depending on psyker lvl
Not sure what to add/ tweek with it but thinking maybe either a Librarian, or some thing.
I've been thinking of doing this with a flesh tearers formation from shield of baal to add drop pods for sisters to use as well
If you are going to do this, I'd go with 15 DC marines with jump packs and 3-4 power swords and 2-3 power fists mixed in. It comes out to just about 400-450 points that way. Big enough that you can string back to pull the priests along and comes with FNP built in.
Oberron wrote: Been working with the idea of making a melee deathstar with BA and sob wondering how to make it all work and have a good delivery system with it. Could use a lot of work but here is the skeleton of the star
St celestine for hq 2 or more priest (power weps optional)
mephiston
With mephiston take the Prescience power from divination and get lucky with the sanctuary daemonology power. Get both of those off during the psy phase and then get into melee with something. The two priest use The Righteousness of the Emperor and The Emperor Protects with any extra priest use The Emperor’s Strength. rolling on ld 10 from st celestine.
Now while in combat you have re-rolls to:
To-hit
To-wound
Armor & invul saves (with invul saves being a 3+ from sanctuary and every priest has a rosary)
As well as:
Zealot (redundent)
Fearless
Hit and run
DTW on targeted powers on either a 3+ or 4+ depending on psyker lvl
Not sure what to add/ tweek with it but thinking maybe either a Librarian, or some thing.
I've been thinking of doing this with a flesh tearers formation from shield of baal to add drop pods for sisters to use as well
If you are going to do this, I'd go with 15 DC marines with jump packs and 3-4 power swords and 2-3 power fists mixed in. It comes out to just about 400-450 points that way. Big enough that you can string back to pull the priests along and comes with FNP built in.
The FNP won't spread to the priest, st celestine or mephiston. Unless you meant have a sang priest with them too
What if I use a drop pod to put the non-jump guys into and have it land around midway on the battle field and use the jump IC to "catch" up and attach them there. It is an odd way of doing it but could work?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I wanna give it a try with a SOB/BA deathstar and drop pod assault spam.
Faith & Blood (1850pts)
Adepta Sororitas
No Force Org Slot (245pts)
Ministorum Priest
Laspistol, Eviscerator, The Litanies of Faith
Ministorum Priest
Eviscerator, Laspistol
Ministorum Priest
Laspistol, Power Maul
Ministorum Priest
Laspistol, Power Maul
Ministorum Priest
Laspistol, Power Maul
HQ Saint Celestine
Troops (150pts)
Battle Sister Squad
4x Battle Sisters, Flamer, Heavy Flamer
Sister Superior
Boltgun, Chainsword
Battle Sister Squad
4x Battle Sisters, Flamer, Heavy Flamer
Sister Superior
Boltgun, Chainsword
Fast Attack (345pts)
Dominion Squad
4x Dominions, 4x Meltagun
Dominion Superior
Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta
Mephiston grabs Prescience, and then hopes for sanctuary from daemonology Sanctic powers, This isn't quite a make or break pick but IMO is the best to boost the plenty of 4++ into 3++ and give everyone in effect shield of faith, there are a couple of other options that are useful as well Hammerhand is alright with +2 str and I was thinking of the gate of infinity but with a squad this big one would have to wiggle around 10 points for a locator beacon for one of the drop pods. forewarning and foreboding are alright too if one wants to stick with divination.
Ideally this is the strength of the deathstar if the 'stars align'.
Mephiston gets off sanctuary and prescience
Charge into combat.
the priests use their war hymms with the litanies of faith there is no need for leadership test, the two with Eviscerators use the emperor protects letting the entire unit re-roll failed armor and invul saves and the righteousness of the emperor letting the entire unit re-roll failed to-wound rolls. The other priest use emperor's strength for smash so their attacks become ap 2 instead of ap4 from power mauls.
at int 10 hammer of wrath happens
15 str 4 HOW with re-roll to wound (The HOW attack doesn't gain benefit from any of the model's special rules but the priest's War hymn isn't the how model's special rule so it should work here)
1 str 3 HOW from st celestine with re-roll to wound
Anything that attacks between then and 8
if ap2 and ID(or s6+) put on a DC marine (6++ re-roll with chance of FNP if not ID or S8+) or one of the power maul priest 3++ re-roll is nice and if not ID(or s6+) put it on the priest to soak with a 3++ re-roll/5+++fnp, if not ap2 put on celestine or mephiston for a 2+ re-roll and FNP
int7
Cesltine goes in with 6 s5 ap3 re-roll to-hit re-roll to-wound attacks at ws7
int5
Mephiston comes in with 6 s10/ID (if no sanquine sword/force then s6) ap3 re-roll to-hit/to-wound attacks at ws6
int 4
40! S5 ap3 attacks at ws 4 once again with re-rolls to hit and to-wound from the DC with power weapons
30! S5 ap- attacks at ws 4 with re-rolls from the remaining DC (if they all lived this far so more than likely i expect closer to 0-20 attacks)
in3
6 S6 ap2 ws3 attacks from the two priest with re-rolls
12 S5 ap2 ws3 attacks from the three other priest if they are still alive at this point (or if using smash 3 s8 ap2)
int1
Sang priest cleans up with 4 s9 ap2 ws 5 with re-rolls
All of that while being backed up with drop pod spam demo teams with 4 melta guns and a combi-melta each coming in first turn and two more drop pods with flamer/heavy flamer sob in each. All of which can be switched around on how they come in or when they come in. Then hit and run to do it again next turn.
There are also a few scouts with snipers taking pot shots in the ruins over there for reasons.
The aim is for a very fast very hard hitting list that pretty much doesn't care about armor saves (and some that dont care about cover saves).
it does have some problems such as bare min sister squads that won't last long against any serious return fire and no real anti-air and a vastly expensive deathstar but I think it has the potential to deal with some top list out there.
You've seen the Immolator sold out and no longer available before? I don't recall that ever on a core plastic kit unless it was being re-boxed with new art or having a completely new kit produced.
So anyone else think the new tau fortification can be useful for retributors letting them move(kinda) and fire as ell as solid protection for them? It seems a bit pricey though and a lot of the stuff is tau only.
Oberron wrote: So anyone else think the new tau fortification can be useful for retributors letting them move(kinda) and fire as ell as solid protection for them? It seems a bit pricey though and a lot of the stuff is tau only.
Not for 265 points with a gun they can't shoot. They're also extremely vulnerable to blast weapons while using it.
Oberron wrote: So anyone else think the new tau fortification can be useful for retributors letting them move(kinda) and fire as ell as solid protection for them? It seems a bit pricey though and a lot of the stuff is tau only.
Not for 265 points with a gun they can't shoot. They're also extremely vulnerable to blast weapons while using it.
How does blast make them vulnerable? Or do you mean barrage?
Oberron wrote: So anyone else think the new tau fortification can be useful for retributors letting them move(kinda) and fire as ell as solid protection for them? It seems a bit pricey though and a lot of the stuff is tau only.
Not for 265 points with a gun they can't shoot. They're also extremely vulnerable to blast weapons while using it.
How does blast make them vulnerable? Or do you mean barrage?
To benefit from the movement rules, the unit has to be completely on the tidewall rampart. That's going to leave them clumped up and susceptible to blast weapons. High volume of fire barrage is the biggest threat (i.e. Wyverns and TFCs) but even battle cannons and plasma cannons will do damage because the extra hits will offset the cover benefit.
the_Armyman wrote: FYI: Immolators are shown as being Sold Out and No Longer Available on the US site.
Now showing Sold Out in Australia, NZ, and Canada, too.
I'm hoping we'll get a Warzone style release like Ravenguard did if we don't get a full scale one.
It's really a headscratcher. It's a webstore exclusive, so a reboxing seems unnecessary. But it's such an important kit to the line, I can't see it going OOP. My fear is that they'll just sell the Immolator sprue as its own SKU, and force you to buy a separate Rhino kit.
I think most Sisters players would be thrilled with a set of objective cards and half a dozen formations in White Dwarf. So simple, yet so improbable at the same time
the_Armyman wrote: FYI: Immolators are shown as being Sold Out and No Longer Available on the US site.
Now showing Sold Out in Australia, NZ, and Canada, too.
I'm hoping we'll get a Warzone style release like Ravenguard did if we don't get a full scale one.
It's really a headscratcher. It's a webstore exclusive, so a reboxing seems unnecessary. But it's such an important kit to the line, I can't see it going OOP. My fear is that they'll just sell the Immolator sprue as its own SKU, and force you to buy a separate Rhino kit.
I think most Sisters players would be thrilled with a set of objective cards and half a dozen formations in White Dwarf. So simple, yet so improbable at the same time
Or GW doesn't think the sales are enough to warrant continuing the army. That sounds just dickish enough for GW to do it.
Oberron wrote: So anyone else think the new tau fortification can be useful for retributors letting them move(kinda) and fire as ell as solid protection for them? It seems a bit pricey though and a lot of the stuff is tau only.
Not for 265 points with a gun they can't shoot. They're also extremely vulnerable to blast weapons while using it.
How does blast make them vulnerable? Or do you mean barrage?
To benefit from the movement rules, the unit has to be completely on the tidewall rampart. That's going to leave them clumped up and susceptible to blast weapons. High volume of fire barrage is the biggest threat (i.e. Wyverns and TFCs) but even battle cannons and plasma cannons will do damage because the extra hits will offset the cover benefit.
they won't be clumped up on the tidewall one can string them out along it just fine. normal blast they can still get their cover save and possible to return hits from the 6+ returns an auto-wound/glance rule.
Heavy support:
2X 125 Exorcist
1X 150 Avenger strike fighter
1499
So, basically, for the Inquisition list I drop the three Priests, a Melta bomb and two combi weapons on the 2 Dominion squads and add a Psyker inquisitor with a Nullrod and a support squad.
I'm not sure which will work better but I use the first list all the time. It's my main list.
Oberron wrote: So anyone else think the new tau fortification can be useful for retributors letting them move(kinda) and fire as ell as solid protection for them? It seems a bit pricey though and a lot of the stuff is tau only.
Not for 265 points with a gun they can't shoot. They're also extremely vulnerable to blast weapons while using it.
How does blast make them vulnerable? Or do you mean barrage?
To benefit from the movement rules, the unit has to be completely on the tidewall rampart. That's going to leave them clumped up and susceptible to blast weapons. High volume of fire barrage is the biggest threat (i.e. Wyverns and TFCs) but even battle cannons and plasma cannons will do damage because the extra hits will offset the cover benefit.
they won't be clumped up on the tidewall one can string them out along it just fine. normal blast they can still get their cover save and possible to return hits from the 6+ returns an auto-wound/glance rule.
The ramparts themselves are the little circle things. The blue shield walls that connect them don't count for purposes of being "on" the ramparts. So squads trying to use this trick have to be stacked inside the little circles.
@ Celtic Strike: I'd go with the pure Sisters list of the two. You don't have enough warp charges to be effective against a psyker heavy army and units that benefit most from divination would lose their act of faith with him tagging along. The null rod also doesn't cancel enemy blessings out (IIRC) so you can't use him to shut off invisibility to buff the rest of your shooting phase.
What you could do to help out the main sisters force is to drop the BSS immolators down to Rhinos and then use the points saved to buy a naked inquisitor with 3 servo skulls. That stops enemy scouting which is huge in the Ravenwing/Wolfstar and White Scars Gladius meta.
So, basically, for the Inquisition list I drop the three Priests, a Melta bomb and two combi weapons on the 2 Dominion squads and add a Psyker inquisitor with a Nullrod and a support squad.
I'm not sure which will work better but I use the first list all the time. It's my main list.
Thanks.
The first list, probably. Although, I think the priests are a waste for those squads.
Oberron wrote: So anyone else think the new tau fortification can be useful for retributors letting them move(kinda) and fire as ell as solid protection for them? It seems a bit pricey though and a lot of the stuff is tau only.
Not for 265 points with a gun they can't shoot. They're also extremely vulnerable to blast weapons while using it.
How does blast make them vulnerable? Or do you mean barrage?
To benefit from the movement rules, the unit has to be completely on the tidewall rampart. That's going to leave them clumped up and susceptible to blast weapons. High volume of fire barrage is the biggest threat (i.e. Wyverns and TFCs) but even battle cannons and plasma cannons will do damage because the extra hits will offset the cover benefit.
they won't be clumped up on the tidewall one can string them out along it just fine. normal blast they can still get their cover save and possible to return hits from the 6+ returns an auto-wound/glance rule.
The ramparts themselves are the little circle things. The blue shield walls that connect them don't count for purposes of being "on" the ramparts. So squads trying to use this trick have to be stacked inside the little circles.
@ Celtic Strike: I'd go with the pure Sisters list of the two. You don't have enough warp charges to be effective against a psyker heavy army and units that benefit most from divination would lose their act of faith with him tagging along. The null rod also doesn't cancel enemy blessings out (IIRC) so you can't use him to shut off invisibility to buff the rest of your shooting phase.
What you could do to help out the main sisters force is to drop the BSS immolators down to Rhinos and then use the points saved to buy a naked inquisitor with 3 servo skulls. That stops enemy scouting which is huge in the Ravenwing/Wolfstar and White Scars Gladius meta.
The shieldwalls do have the reflect rule as well you know. you don't have to be just in the circle the whole thing is the tidewall rampart. the circle things are called either the gunrig or droneport.
I've being running mech sisters list with an aggressive BA contingent.
Game was the Relic vs Eldar, dawn of war deployment.
I sat up first, infiltrated my scouts near and then scouted onto the relic. I had my DC with Chappy and Celestine on my deployment line directly behind the relic, he set up mostly on my left side spreading out to the middle with a Wraith Knight on the deployment line in his centre. My intention was to move the scouts back to my DZ, jump over them with the DC and then rally my forces around them and try to keep them safe as they moved to my RHS table corner...then he seized the initiative.
Most notably he moved his WK up and killed my scouts. My plan was scuppered. Thankfully I managed to deny his reroll armour saves power that he cast on the WK. My turn, concentrated fire from 1 squad of doms, both exoricts, ball pred. Which took 3 wounds off the WK, charged with DC and Celestine, was quite lucky and I managed to kill the WK.
From there it was I dedicated my forces into clearing the centre if the board, securing the relic and then moving to his un-occupied table edge. Kept the ball and exorcist hanging around the otherwise to dissuade him from following my other stuff. Ended the game 4-2, I had relic and line breaker he had first blood and warlord.
Congrats on your win evildrcheese, against Eldar that seems like an uphill battle.
On a side note: Anyone look at their digi-dex recently? I had a friend borrow my army and use it in a match and he rand the eviscerator Canonness as striking at initiative. After I heard that I told him that the eviscerator is unwieldly and he should have gone at I1 but he countered by saying battlescribe was showing the evisc as NOT unwieldly. I checked my digi-dex and sure enough in the reference section it does not say unwieldly for the eviscerator. By that reasoning then does the evisc strike at Initiative? The BRB has it as unwieldly still but doesn't the codex supercede the BRB in case of discrepancy?
I'm not trying to be cheesy here btw, I always played it as unwieldly and thought that was fine but now my dex is proving me wrong, anyone else catch this?
Oberron wrote: So anyone else think the new tau fortification can be useful for retributors letting them move(kinda) and fire as ell as solid protection for them? It seems a bit pricey though and a lot of the stuff is tau only.
Not for 265 points with a gun they can't shoot. They're also extremely vulnerable to blast weapons while using it.
How does blast make them vulnerable? Or do you mean barrage?
To benefit from the movement rules, the unit has to be completely on the tidewall rampart. That's going to leave them clumped up and susceptible to blast weapons. High volume of fire barrage is the biggest threat (i.e. Wyverns and TFCs) but even battle cannons and plasma cannons will do damage because the extra hits will offset the cover benefit.
they won't be clumped up on the tidewall one can string them out along it just fine. normal blast they can still get their cover save and possible to return hits from the 6+ returns an auto-wound/glance rule.
The ramparts themselves are the little circle things. The blue shield walls that connect them don't count for purposes of being "on" the ramparts. So squads trying to use this trick have to be stacked inside the little circles.
@ Celtic Strike: I'd go with the pure Sisters list of the two. You don't have enough warp charges to be effective against a psyker heavy army and units that benefit most from divination would lose their act of faith with him tagging along. The null rod also doesn't cancel enemy blessings out (IIRC) so you can't use him to shut off invisibility to buff the rest of your shooting phase.
What you could do to help out the main sisters force is to drop the BSS immolators down to Rhinos and then use the points saved to buy a naked inquisitor with 3 servo skulls. That stops enemy scouting which is huge in the Ravenwing/Wolfstar and White Scars Gladius meta.
The shieldwalls do have the reflect rule as well you know. you don't have to be just in the circle the whole thing is the tidewall rampart. the circle things are called either the gunrig or droneport.
So the Tidewall comes with two open circles with walls (the ramparts) plus separate gunrigs and drone ports. You also get two reflective wall sections to connect them. To benefit from the free movement that grants relentless, the unit needs to be entirely inside the circular ramparts and thus becomes clumped up and vulnerable to blast. If you are spreading out to use the ramparts and the walls, you lose the movement bonus. At that point, you have a ridiculously expensive piece of cover with only one marginally cool rule (the reflective shooting one) and are better off going with an ADL. At least then you can add reserve manipulation or actually use the gun.
Oberron wrote: So anyone else think the new tau fortification can be useful for retributors letting them move(kinda) and fire as ell as solid protection for them? It seems a bit pricey though and a lot of the stuff is tau only.
Not for 265 points with a gun they can't shoot. They're also extremely vulnerable to blast weapons while using it.
How does blast make them vulnerable? Or do you mean barrage?
To benefit from the movement rules, the unit has to be completely on the tidewall rampart. That's going to leave them clumped up and susceptible to blast weapons. High volume of fire barrage is the biggest threat (i.e. Wyverns and TFCs) but even battle cannons and plasma cannons will do damage because the extra hits will offset the cover benefit.
they won't be clumped up on the tidewall one can string them out along it just fine. normal blast they can still get their cover save and possible to return hits from the 6+ returns an auto-wound/glance rule.
The ramparts themselves are the little circle things. The blue shield walls that connect them don't count for purposes of being "on" the ramparts. So squads trying to use this trick have to be stacked inside the little circles.
@ Celtic Strike: I'd go with the pure Sisters list of the two. You don't have enough warp charges to be effective against a psyker heavy army and units that benefit most from divination would lose their act of faith with him tagging along. The null rod also doesn't cancel enemy blessings out (IIRC) so you can't use him to shut off invisibility to buff the rest of your shooting phase.
What you could do to help out the main sisters force is to drop the BSS immolators down to Rhinos and then use the points saved to buy a naked inquisitor with 3 servo skulls. That stops enemy scouting which is huge in the Ravenwing/Wolfstar and White Scars Gladius meta.
The shieldwalls do have the reflect rule as well you know. you don't have to be just in the circle the whole thing is the tidewall rampart. the circle things are called either the gunrig or droneport.
So the Tidewall comes with two open circles with walls (the ramparts) plus separate gunrigs and drone ports. You also get two reflective wall sections to connect them. To benefit from the free movement that grants relentless, the unit needs to be entirely inside the circular ramparts and thus becomes clumped up and vulnerable to blast. If you are spreading out to use the ramparts and the walls, you lose the movement bonus. At that point, you have a ridiculously expensive piece of cover with only one marginally cool rule (the reflective shooting one) and are better off going with an ADL. At least then you can add reserve manipulation or actually use the gun.
Inevitable_Faith wrote: Congrats on your win evildrcheese, against Eldar that seems like an uphill battle.
On a side note: Anyone look at their digi-dex recently? I had a friend borrow my army and use it in a match and he rand the eviscerator Canonness as striking at initiative. After I heard that I told him that the eviscerator is unwieldly and he should have gone at I1 but he countered by saying battlescribe was showing the evisc as NOT unwieldly. I checked my digi-dex and sure enough in the reference section it does not say unwieldly for the eviscerator. By that reasoning then does the evisc strike at Initiative? The BRB has it as unwieldly still but doesn't the codex supercede the BRB in case of discrepancy?
I'm not trying to be cheesy here btw, I always played it as unwieldly and thought that was fine but now my dex is proving me wrong, anyone else catch this?
I'm not trying to be cheesy here btw, I always played it as unwieldly and thought that was fine but now my dex is proving me wrong, anyone else catch this?
Hadn't updated mine in awhile, checked it and the eviscerator was unwieldy. Updated it and now its just melee, armourbane, two-handed. Does that make repentia good yet?
Nice catch, might put a few in at the club today, see if they last long enough to cause some trouble.
Oberron wrote: So anyone else think the new tau fortification can be useful for retributors letting them move(kinda) and fire as ell as solid protection for them? It seems a bit pricey though and a lot of the stuff is tau only.
Not for 265 points with a gun they can't shoot. They're also extremely vulnerable to blast weapons while using it.
How does blast make them vulnerable? Or do you mean barrage?
To benefit from the movement rules, the unit has to be completely on the tidewall rampart. That's going to leave them clumped up and susceptible to blast weapons. High volume of fire barrage is the biggest threat (i.e. Wyverns and TFCs) but even battle cannons and plasma cannons will do damage because the extra hits will offset the cover benefit.
they won't be clumped up on the tidewall one can string them out along it just fine. normal blast they can still get their cover save and possible to return hits from the 6+ returns an auto-wound/glance rule.
The ramparts themselves are the little circle things. The blue shield walls that connect them don't count for purposes of being "on" the ramparts. So squads trying to use this trick have to be stacked inside the little circles.
@ Celtic Strike: I'd go with the pure Sisters list of the two. You don't have enough warp charges to be effective against a psyker heavy army and units that benefit most from divination would lose their act of faith with him tagging along. The null rod also doesn't cancel enemy blessings out (IIRC) so you can't use him to shut off invisibility to buff the rest of your shooting phase.
What you could do to help out the main sisters force is to drop the BSS immolators down to Rhinos and then use the points saved to buy a naked inquisitor with 3 servo skulls. That stops enemy scouting which is huge in the Ravenwing/Wolfstar and White Scars Gladius meta.
The shieldwalls do have the reflect rule as well you know. you don't have to be just in the circle the whole thing is the tidewall rampart. the circle things are called either the gunrig or droneport.
So the Tidewall comes with two open circles with walls (the ramparts) plus separate gunrigs and drone ports. You also get two reflective wall sections to connect them. To benefit from the free movement that grants relentless, the unit needs to be entirely inside the circular ramparts and thus becomes clumped up and vulnerable to blast. If you are spreading out to use the ramparts and the walls, you lose the movement bonus. At that point, you have a ridiculously expensive piece of cover with only one marginally cool rule (the reflective shooting one) and are better off going with an ADL. At least then you can add reserve manipulation or actually use the gun.
no you don't seem to get it. The entire thing is the tidewall ramparts, not just the circles, not just the walls. the walls are called shield lines, the circles things you keep referring to are called either the gunrig or droneport. The entire thing the shieldlines, the gunrig, and the droneport are as a collective called the ramparts you can be anywhere on the rampart (the shieldlines, gunrig or droneport). You can just deploy the sisters already spread out on the shieldlines/gunrig/droneports so there is no clumping up ever, instead just move the ramparts as per its rules.
even if they are clumped up blast would not be a smart idea to shoot at them with since every cover save made gives another chance of a free hit/glance back at the firing unit.
Oberron wrote: So anyone else think the new tau fortification can be useful for retributors letting them move(kinda) and fire as ell as solid protection for them? It seems a bit pricey though and a lot of the stuff is tau only.
Not for 265 points with a gun they can't shoot. They're also extremely vulnerable to blast weapons while using it.
How does blast make them vulnerable? Or do you mean barrage?
To benefit from the movement rules, the unit has to be completely on the tidewall rampart. That's going to leave them clumped up and susceptible to blast weapons. High volume of fire barrage is the biggest threat (i.e. Wyverns and TFCs) but even battle cannons and plasma cannons will do damage because the extra hits will offset the cover benefit.
they won't be clumped up on the tidewall one can string them out along it just fine. normal blast they can still get their cover save and possible to return hits from the 6+ returns an auto-wound/glance rule.
The ramparts themselves are the little circle things. The blue shield walls that connect them don't count for purposes of being "on" the ramparts. So squads trying to use this trick have to be stacked inside the little circles.
@ Celtic Strike: I'd go with the pure Sisters list of the two. You don't have enough warp charges to be effective against a psyker heavy army and units that benefit most from divination would lose their act of faith with him tagging along. The null rod also doesn't cancel enemy blessings out (IIRC) so you can't use him to shut off invisibility to buff the rest of your shooting phase.
What you could do to help out the main sisters force is to drop the BSS immolators down to Rhinos and then use the points saved to buy a naked inquisitor with 3 servo skulls. That stops enemy scouting which is huge in the Ravenwing/Wolfstar and White Scars Gladius meta.
The shieldwalls do have the reflect rule as well you know. you don't have to be just in the circle the whole thing is the tidewall rampart. the circle things are called either the gunrig or droneport.
So the Tidewall comes with two open circles with walls (the ramparts) plus separate gunrigs and drone ports. You also get two reflective wall sections to connect them. To benefit from the free movement that grants relentless, the unit needs to be entirely inside the circular ramparts and thus becomes clumped up and vulnerable to blast. If you are spreading out to use the ramparts and the walls, you lose the movement bonus. At that point, you have a ridiculously expensive piece of cover with only one marginally cool rule (the reflective shooting one) and are better off going with an ADL. At least then you can add reserve manipulation or actually use the gun.
no you don't seem to get it. The entire thing is the tidewall ramparts, not just the circles, not just the walls. the walls are called shield lines, the circles things you keep referring to are called either the gunrig or droneport. The entire thing the shieldlines, the gunrig, and the droneport are as a collective called the ramparts you can be anywhere on the rampart (the shieldlines, gunrig or droneport). You can just deploy the sisters already spread out on the shieldlines/gunrig/droneports so there is no clumping up ever, instead just move the ramparts as per its rules.
even if they are clumped up blast would not be a smart idea to shoot at them with since every cover save made gives another chance of a free hit/glance back at the firing unit.
My point is that the rules require you to be "on" the ramparts to benefit from the movement rule. You can't be "on" the shield line, only in front of or behind it. The only way to be "on" is to be inside the circles.
I'm not trying to be cheesy here btw, I always played it as unwieldly and thought that was fine but now my dex is proving me wrong, anyone else catch this?
Hadn't updated mine in awhile, checked it and the eviscerator was unwieldy. Updated it and now its just melee, armourbane, two-handed. Does that make repentia good yet?
Nice catch, might put a few in at the club today, see if they last long enough to cause some trouble.
I don't own any repentia sadly but I do own a Canoness that I often field with an eviscerator and rosarius. At ws 5 and I4 she's ok stat-wise. The big thing for her now is that if she strikes at I4 then at worst she can take out a few marines with her or even go before any power fists and possibly get the kills in before they strike. In any challenge against characters that have fists or other unwieldly weapons the eviscerator could be a great option for us. I always liked my canoness with eviscerator but this just made her much more appealing, if this isn't a typo then it's a nice little bonus for us atleast.
Oh I just thought of something: Unit of repentia that you successfully charge against some hammernators, even at I3 repentia strike first, at S6 and so wound on a 2. If you can get them there safely repentia at I3 seem like a solid anti-elite 1 big point sinks. Would beat out a necron overlord if I remember correctly too. Riptides maybe?
Oberron wrote: So anyone else think the new tau fortification can be useful for retributors letting them move(kinda) and fire as ell as solid protection for them? It seems a bit pricey though and a lot of the stuff is tau only.
Not for 265 points with a gun they can't shoot. They're also extremely vulnerable to blast weapons while using it.
How does blast make them vulnerable? Or do you mean barrage?
To benefit from the movement rules, the unit has to be completely on the tidewall rampart. That's going to leave them clumped up and susceptible to blast weapons. High volume of fire barrage is the biggest threat (i.e. Wyverns and TFCs) but even battle cannons and plasma cannons will do damage because the extra hits will offset the cover benefit.
they won't be clumped up on the tidewall one can string them out along it just fine. normal blast they can still get their cover save and possible to return hits from the 6+ returns an auto-wound/glance rule.
The ramparts themselves are the little circle things. The blue shield walls that connect them don't count for purposes of being "on" the ramparts. So squads trying to use this trick have to be stacked inside the little circles.
@ Celtic Strike: I'd go with the pure Sisters list of the two. You don't have enough warp charges to be effective against a psyker heavy army and units that benefit most from divination would lose their act of faith with him tagging along. The null rod also doesn't cancel enemy blessings out (IIRC) so you can't use him to shut off invisibility to buff the rest of your shooting phase.
What you could do to help out the main sisters force is to drop the BSS immolators down to Rhinos and then use the points saved to buy a naked inquisitor with 3 servo skulls. That stops enemy scouting which is huge in the Ravenwing/Wolfstar and White Scars Gladius meta.
The shieldwalls do have the reflect rule as well you know. you don't have to be just in the circle the whole thing is the tidewall rampart. the circle things are called either the gunrig or droneport.
So the Tidewall comes with two open circles with walls (the ramparts) plus separate gunrigs and drone ports. You also get two reflective wall sections to connect them. To benefit from the free movement that grants relentless, the unit needs to be entirely inside the circular ramparts and thus becomes clumped up and vulnerable to blast. If you are spreading out to use the ramparts and the walls, you lose the movement bonus. At that point, you have a ridiculously expensive piece of cover with only one marginally cool rule (the reflective shooting one) and are better off going with an ADL. At least then you can add reserve manipulation or actually use the gun.
no you don't seem to get it. The entire thing is the tidewall ramparts, not just the circles, not just the walls. the walls are called shield lines, the circles things you keep referring to are called either the gunrig or droneport. The entire thing the shieldlines, the gunrig, and the droneport are as a collective called the ramparts you can be anywhere on the rampart (the shieldlines, gunrig or droneport). You can just deploy the sisters already spread out on the shieldlines/gunrig/droneports so there is no clumping up ever, instead just move the ramparts as per its rules.
even if they are clumped up blast would not be a smart idea to shoot at them with since every cover save made gives another chance of a free hit/glance back at the firing unit.
My point is that the rules require you to be "on" the ramparts to benefit from the movement rule. You can't be "on" the shield line, only in front of or behind it. The only way to be "on" is to be inside the circles.
um... no. the whole thing is a ramparet. You can be ON any part of it.
I'm not trying to be cheesy here btw, I always played it as unwieldly and thought that was fine but now my dex is proving me wrong, anyone else catch this?
Hadn't updated mine in awhile, checked it and the eviscerator was unwieldy. Updated it and now its just melee, armourbane, two-handed. Does that make repentia good yet?
Nice catch, might put a few in at the club today, see if they last long enough to cause some trouble.
I don't own any repentia sadly but I do own a Canoness that I often field with an eviscerator and rosarius. At ws 5 and I4 she's ok stat-wise. The big thing for her now is that if she strikes at I4 then at worst she can take out a few marines with her or even go before any power fists and possibly get the kills in before they strike. In any challenge against characters that have fists or other unwieldly weapons the eviscerator could be a great option for us. I always liked my canoness with eviscerator but this just made her much more appealing, if this isn't a typo then it's a nice little bonus for us atleast.
Oh I just thought of something: Unit of repentia that you successfully charge against some hammernators, even at I3 repentia strike first, at S6 and so wound on a 2. If you can get them there safely repentia at I3 seem like a solid anti-elite 1 big point sinks. Would beat out a necron overlord if I remember correctly too. Riptides maybe?
"Profiles for the following melee weapons are listed in the reference section. Their full rules can be found in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules.
I think it's a bug with BattleScribe. My Canoness gets listed without Unwieldy, Repentia listed with it. Both entries in my codex list the Eviscerator as found in the BRB. So I don't think it would stand if you tried it outside friendly games.
Oberron wrote: So anyone else think the new tau fortification can be useful for retributors letting them move(kinda) and fire as ell as solid protection for them? It seems a bit pricey though and a lot of the stuff is tau only.
Not for 265 points with a gun they can't shoot. They're also extremely vulnerable to blast weapons while using it.
How does blast make them vulnerable? Or do you mean barrage?
To benefit from the movement rules, the unit has to be completely on the tidewall rampart. That's going to leave them clumped up and susceptible to blast weapons. High volume of fire barrage is the biggest threat (i.e. Wyverns and TFCs) but even battle cannons and plasma cannons will do damage because the extra hits will offset the cover benefit.
they won't be clumped up on the tidewall one can string them out along it just fine. normal blast they can still get their cover save and possible to return hits from the 6+ returns an auto-wound/glance rule.
The ramparts themselves are the little circle things. The blue shield walls that connect them don't count for purposes of being "on" the ramparts. So squads trying to use this trick have to be stacked inside the little circles.
@ Celtic Strike: I'd go with the pure Sisters list of the two. You don't have enough warp charges to be effective against a psyker heavy army and units that benefit most from divination would lose their act of faith with him tagging along. The null rod also doesn't cancel enemy blessings out (IIRC) so you can't use him to shut off invisibility to buff the rest of your shooting phase.
What you could do to help out the main sisters force is to drop the BSS immolators down to Rhinos and then use the points saved to buy a naked inquisitor with 3 servo skulls. That stops enemy scouting which is huge in the Ravenwing/Wolfstar and White Scars Gladius meta.
The shieldwalls do have the reflect rule as well you know. you don't have to be just in the circle the whole thing is the tidewall rampart. the circle things are called either the gunrig or droneport.
So the Tidewall comes with two open circles with walls (the ramparts) plus separate gunrigs and drone ports. You also get two reflective wall sections to connect them. To benefit from the free movement that grants relentless, the unit needs to be entirely inside the circular ramparts and thus becomes clumped up and vulnerable to blast. If you are spreading out to use the ramparts and the walls, you lose the movement bonus. At that point, you have a ridiculously expensive piece of cover with only one marginally cool rule (the reflective shooting one) and are better off going with an ADL. At least then you can add reserve manipulation or actually use the gun.
no you don't seem to get it. The entire thing is the tidewall ramparts, not just the circles, not just the walls. the walls are called shield lines, the circles things you keep referring to are called either the gunrig or droneport. The entire thing the shieldlines, the gunrig, and the droneport are as a collective called the ramparts you can be anywhere on the rampart (the shieldlines, gunrig or droneport). You can just deploy the sisters already spread out on the shieldlines/gunrig/droneports so there is no clumping up ever, instead just move the ramparts as per its rules.
even if they are clumped up blast would not be a smart idea to shoot at them with since every cover save made gives another chance of a free hit/glance back at the firing unit.
My point is that the rules require you to be "on" the ramparts to benefit from the movement rule. You can't be "on" the shield line, only in front of or behind it. The only way to be "on" is to be inside the circles.
The shieldlines have walkways. You need to look a little closer at the model if you think the shield lines are like the ADL walls. Your point is nonexistent. I will agree it is very pricey for what is effectively mobile ADL with some extra rules but SOB are relatively a very cheap army points wise.
I'm not trying to be cheesy here btw, I always played it as unwieldly and thought that was fine but now my dex is proving me wrong, anyone else catch this?
Hadn't updated mine in awhile, checked it and the eviscerator was unwieldy. Updated it and now its just melee, armourbane, two-handed. Does that make repentia good yet?
Nice catch, might put a few in at the club today, see if they last long enough to cause some trouble.
I don't own any repentia sadly but I do own a Canoness that I often field with an eviscerator and rosarius. At ws 5 and I4 she's ok stat-wise. The big thing for her now is that if she strikes at I4 then at worst she can take out a few marines with her or even go before any power fists and possibly get the kills in before they strike. In any challenge against characters that have fists or other unwieldly weapons the eviscerator could be a great option for us. I always liked my canoness with eviscerator but this just made her much more appealing, if this isn't a typo then it's a nice little bonus for us atleast.
Oh I just thought of something: Unit of repentia that you successfully charge against some hammernators, even at I3 repentia strike first, at S6 and so wound on a 2. If you can get them there safely repentia at I3 seem like a solid anti-elite 1 big point sinks. Would beat out a necron overlord if I remember correctly too. Riptides maybe?
"Profiles for the following melee weapons are listed in the reference section. Their full rules can be found in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules.
Chainsword, ... Eviscerator."
Yeah, sorry, it's unwieldy.
My new copy says that the rules have been condensed and the full version can be found in the BRB, it doesn't list unwieldy for the eviscerator though. It shows two handed and melee which I can find the full version of in the BRB. Perhaps I'm just hoping they gave a little something to make repentia a little less terrible, but where does it say BRB overrides Codex? Where does the Codex (newly updated) give the eviscerator unwieldy? Mine doesn't.
Jancoran wrote: Its saying to look at the BRB for the full rules, which sadly include unwieldy? I think that's what hes aying
It says all the rules are condensed for ease of reference and their full version can be found in the BRB. It doesn't say to look for the profiles for these weapons in the BRB, it provides its own. It may be a mistake, granted, but the codex doesn't list unwieldy. My group is more than happy to let it go till they change it. Makes repentia suck a little bit less.
Edit: Just checked again, my codex actually says "If you need the full rule, see its entry in the relevant section of the book." Doesn't say BRB at all, just, the book. Will probably get changed at some point, but its definitely different than the codex I had before I updated it to check for the change.
So, on an unrelated note to the eviscerators, I had my tourney today. Went 2-1, got almost full points in game 1 and 3 and was tabled by turn 2 in game two, getting no points. No Lords or war and no formations was the rules. 1500 points.
Celestine, 3 BSS in immolators, 2 doms in Repressors, 1 Seraphim, 2 Exorcists (who never got more than 3 shots except for one occasion) 1 avenger strike fighter an inquisitor with a small retinue.
Game one was against probably the best painted Eldar I have ever seen in person. Jain Zar and a Succubus in a squad of banshees in a raider was actually pretty scary until I was able to focus fire and shoot it down. Some war walkers, fire prisms, serpents, kabalite warriors, raiders, vemons, ect. 3 objectives. Hammer and Anvil
I played well but I got lucky too, managed to roll hard 6++ saves against 3 bright lances in a single turn, all against the same Immolator. And I managed to blow up Jain Zar's Raider and a wave serpent full of Dire avengers with non-melta range melta guns. So, It wasn't all me. Ended up with all three objectives, warlord and first blood for 1 point off max.
I went on to face a guy I have never beaten in the 8 years I've played against him. One objective each, dawn of war. Everybody told me to keep my head up but I got hit with drop pod Tiggy with Grav cents and drop pod sternguard and drop pod more grav cents and he was able to table me at the end of his 3rd turn before I got to go. I circled the wagons but was only able to kill 2 or 3 cents before the game was over. Saint Celetine and her Seraphim didn't come in but it wouldn't have made a difference.
Turn three was against a Tzeentch heavy deamon list, with more than a little Slaneesh in it too. Vanguard strike, kill points. He did a lot of summoning and my Inquisitor managed to explode his own mind twice but his deamon prince and keeper of secrets both managed to fail (long-ish) charges on the same turn and I was able to shoot them down with ignore cover meltas, multimeltas, combi plasmas, avenger strike fighters and multi-meltas. About 4/5ths of my army. But they both were taken down. Didn't help that his Soul Grinder managed to not kill a Repressor on the charge, I have no idea how that happened. He kept summoning a lot of assault heavy deamons but that allowed me to re-position and flamer them to death over the course of the next few turns, netting me a lot of kill points for the victory.
So, in the end I came in second, losing to the guy who tabled me turn three, not a bad showing.
Congrats, got any close ups of your Sisters? I have always been tempted to paint up some purple sisters but always lose my nerve and go with the official schemes. \
Adepta Sororitas are sneaky good. I find that they continually have the capacity to take advantage of being underestimated.
My newest list which I haven't painted yet, is designed to take care of the Wraith Knight indignity. Sisters of Battle are most deadly at close range and fortunately can be at very close range very quickly.
So speed and punch are the watchwords of the new list! Fortitude, not suh much but yay for speed.
Jancoran wrote: Adepta Sororitas are sneaky good. I find that they continually have the capacity to take advantage of being underestimated.
My newest list which I haven't painted yet, is designed to take care of the Wraith Knight indignity. Sisters of Battle are most deadly at close range and fortunately can be at very close range very quickly.
So speed and punch are the watchwords of the new list! Fortitude, not suh much but yay for speed.
dracpanzer wrote: Congrats, got any close ups of your Sisters? I have always been tempted to paint up some purple sisters but always lose my nerve and go with the official schemes. \
Very nice Eldar as well.
Thanks. Not yet, was going to take pictures when they're done, so one vehicle and 3 individual models. Once that's done, then totally.
Jancoran wrote: Adepta Sororitas are sneaky good. I find that they continually have the capacity to take advantage of being underestimated.
My newest list which I haven't painted yet, is designed to take care of the Wraith Knight indignity. Sisters of Battle are most deadly at close range and fortunately can be at very close range very quickly.
So speed and punch are the watchwords of the new list! Fortitude, not suh much but yay for speed.
I got some good input after posting this and have had some time to think about it a little more. So i have purchased most of the components and the initial playtesting was SPECTACULAR in effect, but that was very limited and not against true tournament forces so I have yet to know how it will do.
Any input is welcome. My table is so cluttered with projects that I have a little time before i need to finish this. Maybe aftr I test it against a tougher army or two I'll posit its final form.
The top list should be more durable, with the basic idea is to keep the sisters inside their transports for the duration of the game firing out of their firing points.
The bottom list has more reliable and long lasting faith powers and an increase in meltas for the dominions and more bodyguards for Celestine.
Right now i have all the models i need for the top list but can't get repressors or convert them from immolators since there out of stock and i can't find a good deal on eBay so i am currently just waiting for immolator or reppressor stock to become available, since i live in Australia the reppressor seem to be cheaper then the immolators(if i am remembering correctly.
I'm not trying to be cheesy here btw, I always played it as unwieldly and thought that was fine but now my dex is proving me wrong, anyone else catch this?
Hadn't updated mine in awhile, checked it and the eviscerator was unwieldy. Updated it and now its just melee, armourbane, two-handed. Does that make repentia good yet?
Nice catch, might put a few in at the club today, see if they last long enough to cause some trouble.
I don't own any repentia sadly but I do own a Canoness that I often field with an eviscerator and rosarius. At ws 5 and I4 she's ok stat-wise. The big thing for her now is that if she strikes at I4 then at worst she can take out a few marines with her or even go before any power fists and possibly get the kills in before they strike. In any challenge against characters that have fists or other unwieldly weapons the eviscerator could be a great option for us. I always liked my canoness with eviscerator but this just made her much more appealing, if this isn't a typo then it's a nice little bonus for us atleast.
Oh I just thought of something: Unit of repentia that you successfully charge against some hammernators, even at I3 repentia strike first, at S6 and so wound on a 2. If you can get them there safely repentia at I3 seem like a solid anti-elite 1 big point sinks. Would beat out a necron overlord if I remember correctly too. Riptides maybe?
"Profiles for the following melee weapons are listed in the reference section. Their full rules can be found in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules.
Chainsword, ... Eviscerator."
Yeah, sorry, it's unwieldy.
yeah I seen the bit where it says to look in the BRB and the BRB has it labeled as unwieldy. The typo is in the reference section at the end of the dex that has all the weapon stats listed, they omitted to label it as unwieldy there. We have a discrepancy between the reference in our dex vs the stats listed in the BRB. I know it's cheesy to try and argue that it is not unwieldy but the case could be made none the less. I personally will be having my canoness strike at I1 cause I'm confident that unwieldy was the intent of GW for this weapon, I'm just playing devil's advocate and pointing out where the rules could allow the argument to be made since there is an apparent typo in the reference section.
pretre wrote: I would ditch the priests, extra BSS bodies and such to get another exorcist.
i can see how getting rid of the extra sisters to fit an exorcist in would be a good idea but wouldn't removing the priests remove some of the squads durability due to loss of fearless.
pretre wrote: I would ditch the priests, extra BSS bodies and such to get another exorcist.
i can see how getting rid of the extra sisters to fit an exorcist in would be a good idea but wouldn't removing the priests remove some of the squads durability due to loss of fearless.
You should never plan for failure. If you've gotten your BSS into close combat, things have started to go pear-shaped. I will occasionally pop a priest into a BSS if I have a specific purpose for them (I.e., to act as a tarpit), but I never attach a priest per squad in a normal list. Fearless prevents the squad from going to ground, and this can be key late game when you're trying to hold those objectives.
If you're running repressors, swap the BSS to Melta/Flamer or Melta/Melta since the rep comes with a HF>
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'd run the first list, but ditch the Simulacrums for the BSS. You don't really get that much use out of them for BSS.
pretre wrote: If you're running repressors, swap the BSS to Melta/Flamer or Melta/Melta since the rep comes with a HF>
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'd run the first list, but ditch the Simulacrums for the BSS. You don't really get that much use out of them for BSS.
While I can see how replacing the heavy flamer for a melta can make the sisters squads able to take on tanks wouldn't it also make them less Specialised, generally I prefer to keep the basic sister squads focused on infantry and rely on the dominions and exorcists to deal with tanks, though I suppose the Repressors heavy flamer can help make up for the lose.
I do agree with the simulacrums being a waste and will remove them.
Personally I love my flamer/HF sister squads and they pull weight for me. Light vehicles I have no qualms assaulting with krak grenades and heavy vehicles I think the doms and exos can handle. If you're fighting a vehicle heavy list the swap from flamer to melta can be advised but as a TAC list I think flamer/HF is fun.
As for rhino vs Repressor I think it may be six of one and half a dozen of another. Having the extra BSS if you run rhinos is great but the Repressors are awesome in their own right. On a personal note I tend to run smaller cheaper units when I can because I appreciate target saturation. At the end of the day it truly is your call which you'd prefer to run.
Agreed that Simulacrums are not really all that amazing atm.
pretre wrote: Repressors come with hf default so you're not losing much by going double melta.
While I agree that the heavy flamer that comes with the repressor helps compensate for the lose of a heavy flamer in the squad, having two heavy flamers are still better then 1 since going double not only doubles the firepower you have against hordes but it also allows you to flame two hordes at once and turns charging the reppressor into a suicide mission due to the ridiculous amount of overwatch you can put out.
Local meta may dictate how much melta vs flamer you'd want to field as well. Ultimately it's your choice as to what will serve you better based on your common opponents.
yeah I seen the bit where it says to look in the BRB and the BRB has it labeled as unwieldy. The typo is in the reference section at the end of the dex that has all the weapon stats listed, they omitted to label it as unwieldy there. We have a discrepancy between the reference in our dex vs the stats listed in the BRB. I know it's cheesy to try and argue that it is not unwieldy but the case could be made none the less. I personally will be having my canoness strike at I1 cause I'm confident that unwieldy was the intent of GW for this weapon, I'm just playing devil's advocate and pointing out where the rules could allow the argument to be made since there is an apparent typo in the reference section.
Ahhh man I'd love to be able to use the reference section to trump normal listed stats. There was a couple of lovely errors about the exorcist and penitent engine had a toughness, wounds, and a save of 3 not a 3+, just a 3! But I'd spam exorcist as much as i could with a toughness 13 with 11 wounds, penitent engines with toughness 11, 11 wounds and swinging at initiative 10 yes please.
pretre wrote: Repressors come with hf default so you're not losing much by going double melta.
While I agree that the heavy flamer that comes with the repressor helps compensate for the lose of a heavy flamer in the squad, having two heavy flamers are still better then 1 since going double not only doubles the firepower you have against hordes but it also allows you to flame two hordes at once and turns charging the reppressor into a suicide mission due to the ridiculous amount of overwatch you can put out.
Here is my current thinking on a BS squad: 5 girls, 1x melta, 1x heavy flamer, mounted in a Repressor for a 155 points total. It's a bit of a generalist loadout and a little odd but there are a couple of things driving this thinking.
The prevalence of S6 shooting from Eldar makes a Rhino or Immolator a bit of a liability. Even with cover, the sheer volume of fire is sufficient to wreck a vehicle and expose the squad inside on foot. Eldar mobility makes it very unlikely that a squad on foot will be able to bring effective fire to bear. The Repressor's AV13 makes them virtually immune to Eldar fire in the opening rounds of the game, letting your squads get into position. The AV13 bump is looking even more important with the mass of S7 Tau shooting in the new book. MSU is the best answer to the new Tau detachment.
The melta gun supplements your high AP shooting late in the game. The exorcists and dominions are good in the early and mid game, but they are generally destroyed or attrited to the point of combat ineffectiveness by the late game. The additional melta gives you options in the late game more so than a single flamer does and, in combination with the heavy flamer, you still lay down a decent amount of wounds on regular squads.
With the new Raven Guard VV assault from deep strike, is it possible to add St. Celestine to this unit?
Same question comes up with every new formation. The answer is: Check with your TO/Opponent.
ITC Answer: No.
Spoiler:
Independant Characters attached to the Devastators or Assault Marines in the Skyhammer Annihilation Formation may not benefit from the special rules granted from the formation. For example, they are not able to assault out of reserves, nor do they gain Relentless, etc.
On another unrelated note, Sisters of silence, if you wanted to play them with a counts as rule set, which would be better?
Cypher: (Know no fear, Shrouded, Eternal warrior, special guns and melee attack, can take a squad of chosen with him to represent the normal Sisters of Silence squad, can infiltrate)
Codex Legion of the damned: (Can be made tough, relentless and have access to a variety of ranged weapons but not great in melee, can deep strike)
Sisters of Silence are Blanks, right? So, a Culexus? That's something I've considered, anyway, although it doesn't lend itself to fielding a squad of them.
Celtic Strike wrote: On another unrelated note, Sisters of silence, if you wanted to play them with a counts as rule set, which would be better?
Cypher: (Know no fear, Shrouded, Eternal warrior, special guns and melee attack, can take a squad of chosen with him to represent the normal Sisters of Silence squad, can infiltrate)
Codex Legion of the damned: (Can be made tough, relentless and have access to a variety of ranged weapons but not great in melee, can deep strike)
Celtic Strike wrote: On another unrelated note, Sisters of silence, if you wanted to play them with a counts as rule set, which would be better?
Cypher: (Know no fear, Shrouded, Eternal warrior, special guns and melee attack, can take a squad of chosen with him to represent the normal Sisters of Silence squad, can infiltrate)
Codex Legion of the damned: (Can be made tough, relentless and have access to a variety of ranged weapons but not great in melee, can deep strike)
Let me know, thanks
Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave.
That's kinda boring, they don't have guns ect, like the other SOS did.
I guess we have to wait until the new Horus Heresy book comes out, with Space Wolves in it, we should get SoS then
I've been going to the GW website and clicking the immolator link to demonstrate web traffic. Probably a waste of time, but I am also curious enough to keep it up.
I think GW needs to update their page for sisters again. I was checking out the immolator link and under the suggested was battle sisters with an e-mail me and temporally out of stock but on the main spread with all the units has the add to cart button. Same with the battle sisters squad. This was on the US site.
On a related note just got 11 seraphim for $30 two of them are the OOP seraphim vet with plasma pistol and power sword either all primed white or nothing on them so no clean up work needing to be done.
What are the ways my fellow seraphim player use theirs? Max squads or MSU with hand flamers? Also what to equip the superior with?
Oberron wrote: What are the ways my fellow seraphim player use theirs? Max squads or MSU with hand flamers? Also what to equip the superior with?
I usually pass on giving the Superior a power weapon, just think the twin pistols is a better idea. The Seraphim can fight HtH but aren't equipped to hurt real assault beasts so the PW is seldom worth it. Squad size depends on the game and if I'm bringing St Celestine. MSU if they're on their own, as many as I can buy if they escort the saint.
Oberron wrote: What are the ways my fellow seraphim player use theirs? Max squads or MSU with hand flamers? Also what to equip the superior with?
I usually pass on giving the Superior a power weapon, just think the twin pistols is a better idea. The Seraphim can fight HtH but aren't equipped to hurt real assault beasts so the PW is seldom worth it. Squad size depends on the game and if I'm bringing St Celestine. MSU if they're on their own, as many as I can buy if they escort the saint.
So you just keep the superior plane not even switching out a bolt pistol for plasma pistol? I would think even a single power weapon would be nice if St celestine is with them for hit & run then re-assault tactics.
Oberron wrote: What are the ways my fellow seraphim player use theirs? Max squads or MSU with hand flamers? Also what to equip the superior with?
I usually pass on giving the Superior a power weapon, just think the twin pistols is a better idea. The Seraphim can fight HtH but aren't equipped to hurt real assault beasts so the PW is seldom worth it. Squad size depends on the game and if I'm bringing St Celestine. MSU if they're on their own, as many as I can buy if they escort the saint.
So you just keep the superior plane not even switching out a bolt pistol for plasma pistol? I would think even a single power weapon would be nice if St celestine is with them for hit & run then re-assault tactics.
Unfortunately S3/T3/I3 makes power weapons vastly overpriced on Sisters, just like it is on Imperial Guard. If you must do it, Power Axes are the best bet since S4, AP2 is not entirely bad even if it is I1. However if the Seraphim Superior is there to protect Celestine from challenges, then don't even bother with any upgrades other than a Melta Bomb. She's likely to die before she gets to swing, making it a waste of 15pts. Seraphim are best kept cheap, with two lots of dual hand flamers, for piling Wounds on with their Act of Faith and burning away whole swathes of troop units. If they must get into CC though, don't forget that since they have 2 bolt pistols they also get an extra attack for having two CCW.
About the only time I'd suggest buying power weapons for any unit in a Sisters army is for a dedicated a melee squad backed up with Ministorum Priest support for those tasty re-roll saving throw and To Wound War Hymns. At least then you'll have a good chance of getting to swing and wound in melee.
I take Seraphim in every game I play with my sisters. For me they are the "quintessential" sister unit and I find them pretty effective.
I use a squad of 10 with hand flamers and a melta bomb as a bodyguard for Celestine. Fly up and shoot something to death then assault. If the there is a character with a 3+ or worse armour save challenge him out with Celestine and kill him. She has killed so many SM sergeants that all the battle brothers are afraid of being promoted Then hit and run in your opponents phase cc (on int 7!) and move shoot normally.
What are the ways my fellow seraphim player use theirs? Max squads or MSU with hand flamers? Also what to equip the superior with?
5 Sisters, 2 hand flamers, upgrade to VSS with melta-bombs. Don't fall for the WS4 trap. The only reason you want to get into CC is to protect them the following turn from shooting.
What are the ways my fellow seraphim player use theirs? Max squads or MSU with hand flamers? Also what to equip the superior with?
5 Sisters, 2 hand flamers, upgrade to VSS with melta-bombs. Don't fall for the WS4 trap. The only reason you want to get into CC is to protect them the following turn from shooting.
MrFlutterPie wrote: I am starting to embrace 7ed army building a bit more as of late. Generally when I build an army (Sob &Orks) I automatically build with double cad.
I find it really helps unlocks those tasty fast attack slots for me.
Double cad for SOB? Kind of a waste at anything under 2000.
MrFlutterPie wrote: I am starting to embrace 7ed army building a bit more as of late. Generally when I build an army (Sob &Orks) I automatically build with double cad.
I find it really helps unlocks those tasty fast attack slots for me.
I take a middle-of-the-road approach to list building with Sisters. I rarely take three of any one thing, so needing a second CAD for four or five or six of something never really factors into my games
MrFlutterPie wrote: I am starting to embrace 7ed army building a bit more as of late. Generally when I build an army (Sob &Orks) I automatically build with double cad.
I find it really helps unlocks those tasty fast attack slots for me.
Double cad for SOB? Kind of a waste at anything under 2000.
It allows me 5 FA choices.
Example 1850
Celestine
80 point cannonees(15pts of gear) or Jackie Boy
4x min mech BSS double flamer
4x domms
Full Seraphim squad
2x exo's
I still have a little under 100pts to play with still
MrFlutterPie wrote: I am starting to embrace 7ed army building a bit more as of late. Generally when I build an army (Sob &Orks) I automatically build with double cad.
I find it really helps unlocks those tasty fast attack slots for me.
Double cad for SOB? Kind of a waste at anything under 2000.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The problem with double CAD, even at 2000 is you have to take too many BSS. :(
If I was going to do double CAD, I would do something like:
CAD 1:
Celestine
Bastion
5 BSS with Flamer/Flamer in Repressor
5 BSS with Flamer/Flamer in Repressor
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor
Exorcist
Exorcist
CAD 2:
Jacobus
5 BSS with Flamer/Flamer in Repressor
5 BSS with Flamer/Flamer in Repressor
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor
6 Rets with 4 HB and Simulacrum
1982
Could always make it cheaper by either dropping repressors for BSS and use the BSS as back line objective holders. Back line bss one could drop the flamers if needed. OR even replace st celestine and/or jacobus with a cheap cannoness.
And not everyone uses FW so one could replace all the repressors with either rhinos or immolaters
Oberron wrote: Could always make it cheaper by either dropping repressors for BSS and use the BSS as back line objective holders. Back line bss one could drop the flamers if needed. OR even replace st celestine and/or jacobus with a cheap cannoness.
And not everyone uses FW so one could replace all the repressors with either rhinos or immolaters
You COULD do that, but it would make it a worse list.
Aesthetically, immos all the way, one of the sexiest tanks in the game in my opinion. I run two of them and they pull their weight for me. But I only do small battles with my force cause it's so small right now. I'm hardly a judge of what is competitive for sisters right now.
I think if you can run Repressors, you run Repressors. They have such a huge upside, and AV13 hits that sweet spot in terms of where you can't rely on lots of mid-strength shots to hull point something to death. You have to use dedicated AT to take out what amounts to a glorified Rhino. Now that FW seems unlikely to ever bring it back, I've been seriously thinking about scratchbuilding and casting my own parts.
the_Armyman wrote: I think if you can run Repressors, you run Repressors. They have such a huge upside, and AV13 hits that sweet spot in terms of where you can't rely on lots of mid-strength shots to hull point something to death. You have to use dedicated AT to take out what amounts to a glorified Rhino. Now that FW seems unlikely to ever bring it back, I've been seriously thinking about scratchbuilding and casting my own parts.
I'm unlikely to indulge in them. Forge World and so on. But I see the attraction for sure. Plus they arent attrocious looking. As has been said, Immolators are pretty sexy.
the_Armyman wrote: I think if you can run Repressors, you run Repressors. They have such a huge upside, and AV13 hits that sweet spot in terms of where you can't rely on lots of mid-strength shots to hull point something to death. You have to use dedicated AT to take out what amounts to a glorified Rhino. Now that FW seems unlikely to ever bring it back, I've been seriously thinking about scratchbuilding and casting my own parts.
I'm unlikely to indulge in them. Forge World and so on. But I see the attraction for sure. Plus they arent attrocious looking. As has been said, Immolators are pretty sexy.
The lack of fire points is making me slowly move away from immolators, especially for my dominions. Bailing them out to shoot is the quickest way to ensure they're demise it seems. I'm going to move over to repressors for my dominions (ramshackle games makes sweet looking alternatives) and probably keep Rhinos for my BSS squads to use the 80 points for other things in my list.
the_Armyman wrote: I think if you can run Repressors, you run Repressors. They have such a huge upside, and AV13 hits that sweet spot in terms of where you can't rely on lots of mid-strength shots to hull point something to death. You have to use dedicated AT to take out what amounts to a glorified Rhino. Now that FW seems unlikely to ever bring it back, I've been seriously thinking about scratchbuilding and casting my own parts.
I'm unlikely to indulge in them. Forge World and so on. But I see the attraction for sure. Plus they arent attrocious looking. As has been said, Immolators are pretty sexy.
The lack of fire points is making me slowly move away from immolators, especially for my dominions. Bailing them out to shoot is the quickest way to ensure they're demise it seems. I'm going to move over to repressors for my dominions (ramshackle games makes sweet looking alternatives) and probably keep Rhinos for my BSS squads to use the 80 points for other things in my list.
I've had the Immo's TL Melta save my hide too many times to get rid of them, but I do have my Doms roll in a Repressor (need to get my hands on a Dozer Blade so I can build one though.)
Hoitash wrote: I've had the Immo's TL Melta save my hide too many times to get rid of them, but I do have my Doms roll in a Repressor (need to get my hands on a Dozer Blade so I can build one though.)
Talk to an IG player. The Leman Russ dozers work out pretty well.
Hoitash wrote: I've had the Immo's TL Melta save my hide too many times to get rid of them, but I do have my Doms roll in a Repressor (need to get my hands on a Dozer Blade so I can build one though.)
Talk to an IG player. The Leman Russ dozers work out pretty well.
That was my plan -our group has enough of 'em, and their busy enough they could probably part with one for cheap.
I recently got my power armour handed to me by daemonettes, anyone have some thoughts (besides imperial knights, which is my current plan.)
Hoitash wrote: I've had the Immo's TL Melta save my hide too many times to get rid of them, but I do have my Doms roll in a Repressor (need to get my hands on a Dozer Blade so I can build one though.)
Talk to an IG player. The Leman Russ dozers work out pretty well.
That was my plan -our group has enough of 'em, and their busy enough they could probably part with one for cheap.
I recently got my power armour handed to me by daemonettes, anyone have some thoughts (besides imperial knights, which is my current plan.)
Demonettes murder in Close Combat - so don't let them get there. T3 with a 5+ save doesn't go very far against massed Bolter fire, so you should be able to drop them pretty quick - just watch out for their +3" when running and don't get surprised by a quick moving unit of them coming out of Deep Strike. Of course, if the Demonettes have Psychic/Grimoire support then you're in real trouble.
Imperial Knights are actually a pretty good counter to Demons, since AV13 is an awkward for demons to deal with since they lack 'true' anti-tank options unless they want to gamble a D-Thirster or Belakor to take it out. Probably expect for it to be tarpitted by something until Plaguebearers can arrive to try to glance it out.
GoonBandito wrote: Demonettes murder in Close Combat - so don't let them get there. T3 with a 5+ save doesn't go very far against massed Bolter fire, so you should be able to drop them pretty quick - just watch out for their +3" when running and don't get surprised by a quick moving unit of them coming out of Deep Strike. Of course, if the Demonettes have Psychic/Grimoire support then you're in real trouble.
Imperial Knights are actually a pretty good counter to Demons, since AV13 is an awkward for demons to deal with since they lack 'true' anti-tank options unless they want to gamble a D-Thirster or Belakor to take it out. Probably expect for it to be tarpitted by something until Plaguebearers can arrive to try to glance it out.
That extra 3" really mounts up over the course of 5 turns!
Hoitash wrote: I've had the Immo's TL Melta save my hide too many times to get rid of them, but I do have my Doms roll in a Repressor (need to get my hands on a Dozer Blade so I can build one though.)
Talk to an IG player. The Leman Russ dozers work out pretty well.
That was my plan -our group has enough of 'em, and their busy enough they could probably part with one for cheap.
I recently got my power armour handed to me by daemonettes, anyone have some thoughts (besides imperial knights, which is my current plan.)
What did the demon player field?
Two Daemon Princes, two big blobs of Daemonettes with Heralds, and a Keeper of Secrets. Because of psyker shenanigans I wasn't able to drop the big guys before they popped my immos and turned my Sisters into... I'd rather not talk about it. They made the Retributors watch.
It didn't help that my seraphim missed their deep strike, though. Those hand flamers woulda done the trick. Oh, and my Doms were in the middle of nowhere.
My orks fared a bit better until the daemonettes Cuisinearted them into fungus stew (my Flash Gitz managed to kill the Keeper though.). So my plan next time is have my Acheron burn them all while I laugh maniacally (until the Princes murder it, I mean.)
Hoitash wrote: I've had the Immo's TL Melta save my hide too many times to get rid of them, but I do have my Doms roll in a Repressor (need to get my hands on a Dozer Blade so I can build one though.)
Talk to an IG player. The Leman Russ dozers work out pretty well.
That was my plan -our group has enough of 'em, and their busy enough they could probably part with one for cheap.
I recently got my power armour handed to me by daemonettes, anyone have some thoughts (besides imperial knights, which is my current plan.)
What did the demon player field?
Two Daemon Princes, two big blobs of Daemonettes with Heralds, and a Keeper of Secrets. Because of psyker shenanigans I wasn't able to drop the big guys before they popped my immos and turned my Sisters into... I'd rather not talk about it. They made the Retributors watch.
It didn't help that my seraphim missed their deep strike, though. Those hand flamers woulda done the trick. Oh, and my Doms were in the middle of nowhere.
My orks fared a bit better until the daemonettes Cuisinearted them into fungus stew (my Flash Gitz managed to kill the Keeper though.). So my plan next time is have my Acheron burn them all while I laugh maniacally (until the Princes murder it, I mean.)
So there are two approaches to dealing with that kind of list. First, you can try to kill the buffing units so that the blobs will be more manageable. This is actually the more difficult proposition. Its easy for the psykers to hide in units or get good cover saves and the Sisters army is relatively short ranged meaning you have to get into assault range to target them effectively.
The second option is to target the demonettes first to attrite them and ignore the psykers until you have a good opportunity to mass on them without demonette retaliation. This is much easier, particularly if you ally in high rate of fire barrage weapons. If you don't, HB retributors work well here in the medium range band. Deployment helps too. Set up on a flank so you can fight the blobs near to far and use your transports to limit access/redeploy as needed.
Hope that helps.
Edit: I'd also consider starting your seraphim on the table in this match up. They are fast and you want those flamers in close to protect your lines.
Use your rhinos and immolators to tank shock and squish them together. Then flamer them.
Additionally, throw out one unit to take their charge (and die), while the remainder of your troops bolter them to death, then fall back.. Just like orks, focus fire on one unit at a time until its dead. Rinse and repeat.
Having a lowly 5 girl BSS squad charge up 1" away from them and rapid fire them forces them to slow down their charge. The cover save they get is the same as their invul, so you're not losing anything firing through your own troops.
So I've been kicking around some changes to my list as I gear up for LVO. What do you guys/girls think of these variants? The real key trade offs are (1) Yarrick versus 4 plasma guns and additional vehicle and (2) Culexus versus Servo Skull Inquisitor. Suggestions for additional unit ideas in the short point lists would be great as well. I'm toying around with the idea of throwing in some scout sentinels for area denial/out flank options but all ideas are welcome.
CORE (no significant changes in either case):
Sisters CAD:
Celestine
2x5 BSS, Heavy Flamer, Melta Gun, Rhino
3x5 Dominion, 4x Melta gun, Repressor
2x Exorcist
Hey - was just flipping through the book (electronically) for the first time in a long while and noticed the formations at the back. Are those for regular 40k use? Are any of them any good?
teddet wrote: Hey - was just flipping through the book (electronically) for the first time in a long while and noticed the formations at the back. Are those for regular 40k use? Are any of them any good?
What is your goal with Yarrick? Just a nasty beat stick in the Chimera? Or a stubborn HQ with a PF for AT?
I'm thinking of pairing him with Celestine when he hops out of the Chimera to be part of an annoying bully unit that just crushes non-dedicated melee units. The troll factor of both of them standing back up is hilarious and with PE: Orcs and Hit and Run the pair of them could hold off a green tide forever (especially if the Wyvern barrage keeps killing off power fists). Its also just a second assault unit to help clear objectives late in the game.
Hey there. won my tournament this last weekend. Thought I'd share.
Fought Imperial Fists (turn 3 capitulation), War Convocation (conceded on his bottom of three) and Castigator + Khornate Daemonkin list (super big unpleasant word to describe this guy, extra sweet to beat HIM).
Jancoran wrote: Hey there. won my tournament this last weekend. Thought I'd share.
Fought Imperial Fists (turn 3 capitulation), War Convocation (conceded on his bottom of three) and Castigator + Khornate Daemonkin list (super big unpleasant word to describe this guy, extra sweet to beat HIM).
I armed them all with meltas and Combi-Meltas. the Retributors had heavy Flamers and Combi-Flamer. Threw in Meltabombs because: melta
Imperial Fists: Turns out Centurions AREN'T fond of Meltas. They also don't like it when you get first turn. In fact the entire army doesnt like it, especially when Rhinos block their counter punch. Anywho. Modified Maelstrom mission. All's quiet on the Western Front. This one was kinda over before it began.
War Convocation with Imperial Knight: Scouted, then killed his Sicarians (technically ran off the board), Imperial Knight and Breachers turn one with Dominions. Round two, heavy Flamered his Sicarians midfield where they had assaulted me (as i realized later, illegally but for some reason we both brain farted and so he had assaulted me on his turn one after I moved up... Der. dumb mistake on my part for not catching that rules faux pa but what was done was done, it was an honest mistkae i felt and he wasnt trying to get one over on me). Also killed other Kataphrons. Round three, killed everything but his two Vanguard, and I want to say he might have had that big Defiler looking Dune-walker-thingee left? Anyways He conceded after his shooting was done. The Rhinos played big in preserving my units and then allowing them to deluge their targets again.
Final opponent: Tyler. One of the worst gaming experiences. Tyler big timed me from the word go, had to be corrected throughout the game by the TO (like five different occassions, literally on everything from his Forge World rules to his charges) and acted like I was some kind of noob or something, going so far as to talk in a voice I can only describe as the one you use when speaking to your baby son. Seriously. It was infuriating. His way of "getting into your head or some crap" Anywho, he had taken a CASTGATOR with his D-Thister, a Heldrake, a Soul Grinder, a Juggylord and Khorne hounds for miles. Couple cultist units because he had to. Relic mission,. I baited him to the right as long as i could and even jumped out of rhinos to make myself available as a target, and used movement to trap the Castigator in place, which forced his stuff to come help and try to preserve it. I then won the game after my reserves came on to take the objective. He tried to get back in time, smashing into me with Juggy Lord and D-Thirster, but my Rhinos once again saved the day, slowing his ability to kill my units and as i went second, the relic was mine s long as he couldnt kill ALL my reserves. He was killing everything he touched so that wasnt a tall order. Lol. His list steam rolled two people, including the top player at that store (Im told by Jaron the manager) in round one but I got a feeling that dude just... Probably wanted that game to end as badly as I did. During Tylers first game he was telling the top dude how he automatically hits because the guys tanks hadn't moved, as an example of the mind games this guy was playing just to see if his opponent knew better. He also didn't seem to want to charge legally in a straight line , wanted blasts to affect only the top level... I felt for the "top dude" during his game, not realizing Id have to play Tyler later myself. oofta.
Anyways, stellar outing. I actually went undfeated at the Charity tournament on Saturday (using Night Lords) and then this one using Adepta Sororitas. Great weekend of gaming.
Oh it says I'll get in trouble if i only write "Boom!" or something. =) So I'm typing more.
The (perhaps) coolest thing about the army is its simplicity. It isn't complicated. It was effective. I was particularly gratified to defeat Forge Worlders. Hehehe. While I have never claimed Forge World stuff is ALL broken, I've never liked it. so whenever someone brings that stuff, it's just kinda the added cherry on top if I can win. It's not the opponents fault because the local tolerances vary a lot on that and they are just doing their thing. But I still get an added little fist pump inside.
One thing I noticed though is that in the area where I was playing, they were STUNNED to see a Sisters of Battle army. Everyone was very... what's the word?... They were commiserating with my plight beforehand in some cases? Like they were saying 'wow man, thats really cool that you brought...that...". The unspoken sentiment being that I might be in for a rough ride.
DevonMrtnz wrote: The Sisters can fight anything with a skilled enough general and good enough dice I love it.
Indeed! Dice are always a part of the equation. Although i felt like they were on my opponents side in that last round. His Daemon saves and his Castigator saves were insane. He bounced a ton of my shots. I killed his Heldrake and then he's like "Oh okay ill jink then" after I had done it. WTF. Saved it. I allowed it. I shouldn't have. He survived a sure death on his last Hull Point on the Soul Grinder twice. His Castigator took all game to kill. i mean it got silly. i really did think i would wipe the Castigator in round one probably, but nope. I suppose the battle report would have been much more one sides if i had. Same for the Soul Grinder and his Heldrake (which again should have been dead, but whatevs).
Oh it says I'll get in trouble if i only write "Boom!" or something. =) So I'm typing more.
The (perhaps) coolest thing about the army is its simplicity. It isn't complicated. It was effective. I was particularly gratified to defeat Forge Worlders. Hehehe. While I have never claimed Forge World stuff is ALL broken, I've never liked it. so whenever someone brings that stuff, it's just kinda the added cherry on top if I can win. It's not the opponents fault because the local tolerances vary a lot on that and they are just doing their thing. But I still get an added little fist pump inside.
One thing I noticed though is that in the area where I was playing, they were STUNNED to see a Sisters of Battle army. Everyone was very... what's the word?... They were commiserating with my plight beforehand in some cases? Like they were saying 'wow man, thats really cool that you brought...that...". The unspoken sentiment being that I might be in for a rough ride.
It continually amuses me to see Sisters get ranked as one of the lower tier armies in the game. I suppose truthfully they are, but only in so much as that they don't have the 7th Edition Super-Detachment treatment that other armies are getting. But what Sisters do do quite well are the basics - massed Bolter/Flamer against Infantry, massed Melta against vehicles/monstrous creatures and high strength/low AP long range supporting fire from Exorcists.
I've found that when I loan an army out to people to try playing the game more often than not I loan out my sisters. They're a fun army to play with tools for all occasions (except perhaps assaults) and the holy-trinity is a very easy concept for people to understand. They perform well as a balanced force and while a great general can make them shine even a mediocre general can get some performance out of them.
I'd love to see sisters getting a proper codex and 7th edition with new plastic models but I'll still admit they hold up well enough against my local meta and by all accounts they seem to do well enough for a lot of people too.
Congrats Jancoran on your wins. Always is the cherry on top to beat THAT guy lol
One thing Sistrs of Battle don't fear, oddly, is Imperial Knights and a Wraith Knight.
At the Elvensword Ambassadorial Tournament, the final round saw Adepta Sororitas up against a triple Wraith Knight list.
He actually had a chance to win that game. He wasn't optimized to kill that kind of list but did well considering the matchup. his Adepta Sororitas could simply be more places and when its objectives you're talking about, well...
Imperial Knights aren't really a problem because of all that Melta, but Wraithknights still are imo. Wraithknights are far more survivable against S8, AP1 than an Imperial Knight is.
What saves Sisters in that kind of matchup is the strong MSU game they can do, which up until the release of the 7th Edition Space Marine codex was probably the strongest in the game. I think free transports in a dual Demi-Company Gladius out MSU's a Sisters list these days. Though the Sisters will be packing more Melta guns.
The Company Support rule is broken. Just is. I don't get it. How does that rule make sense? It's not as if you're forced to take terribad units and weapons to get it. Grav Guns galore and transports to bring them into firing position. On units that auto regroup even when running... And then to top it off, thats assuming when blown from the transports, they are even in LOS to hit.
I kinda missed the part where that sucks on any level. Meanwhile: Tau pay 80 points for a Devilfish, the Adepta Sororitas pay FOURTY points a rhino. So... so...
Jancoran wrote: The Company Support rule is broken. Just is. I don't get it. How does that rule make sense? It's not as if you're forced to take terribad units and weapons to get it. Grav Guns galore and transports to bring them into firing position. On units that auto regroup even when running... And then to top it off, thats assuming when blown from the transports, they are even in LOS to hit.
I kinda missed the part where that sucks on any level. Meanwhile: Tau pay 80 points for a Devilfish, the Adepta Sororitas pay FOURTY points a rhino. So... so...
To be fair, you do have to take an extra HQ and sub-standard Devs/Assault to get them. It locks you into a certain build. I'm not saying it isn't good; I'm saying there are downsides.
Jancoran wrote: The Company Support rule is broken. Just is. I don't get it. How does that rule make sense? It's not as if you're forced to take terribad units and weapons to get it. Grav Guns galore and transports to bring them into firing position. On units that auto regroup even when running... And then to top it off, thats assuming when blown from the transports, they are even in LOS to hit.
I kinda missed the part where that sucks on any level. Meanwhile: Tau pay 80 points for a Devilfish, the Adepta Sororitas pay FOURTY points a rhino. So... so...
To be fair, you do have to take an extra HQ and sub-standard Devs/Assault to get them. It locks you into a certain build. I'm not saying it isn't good; I'm saying there are downsides.
Sure. None that counterbalance the upside. And it isnt as if those units do nothing but sit on a log. They actually DO stuff. So I mean... Dayam. Its an Adepta Sororitas dream come true.
Not to go too far off topic, but I can attest (since I have and run it) that Gladius is bullsniff... My 1850 White Scars Gladius has 67 models, 8 Free Razorbacks, 2 Rhinos (for the devs to shoot from)... And of those 67, on bikes you have Khan, a Chaplain, 10 Command squad guys, 6 regular, and 9 scout bikes.... yeah... 27 Bikes, 40 marines,10 vehicles= 27 UNITS total on the board... So dumb.
My current Sisters (with WS allies) build at 1850 only has 35 Bodies, 8 tanks. (8 bodies are various Marines on bikes), with a total of 17 UNITS.
But honestly the SoB list is easily more fun to play, still pretty good, and doesn't feel like I'm cheating...
Btothefnrock wrote: Not to go too far off topic, but I can attest (since I have and run it) that Gladius is bullsniff... My 1850 White Scars Gladius has 67 models, 8 Free Razorbacks, 2 Rhinos (for the devs to shoot from)... And of those 67, on bikes you have Khan, a Chaplain, 10 Command squad guys, 6 regular, and 9 scout bikes.... yeah... 27 Bikes, 40 marines,10 vehicles= 27 UNITS total on the board... So dumb.
My current Sisters (with WS allies) build at 1850 only has 35 Bodies, 8 tanks. (8 bodies are various Marines on bikes), with a total of 17 UNITS.
But honestly the SoB list is easily more fun to play, still pretty good, and doesn't feel like I'm cheating...
This type of list is why the servo skull inquisitor has a permanent home in my Sisters lists right now. I even splurged on the armored battle car + female inquisitor models to get some more thematic models on to the board,
This type of list is why the servo skull inquisitor has a permanent home in my Sisters lists right now. I even splurged on the armored battle car + female inquisitor models to get some more thematic models on to the board,
The skulls put a damper on the t1 alpha for sure, but luckily it is fast enough to not worry much. Such a dumb powerful list.
This type of list is why the servo skull inquisitor has a permanent home in my Sisters lists right now. I even splurged on the armored battle car + female inquisitor models to get some more thematic models on to the board,
The skulls put a damper on the t1 alpha for sure, but luckily it is fast enough to not worry much. Such a dumb powerful list.
With good deployment and skulls, I can take away 2 turns of shooting from that list.
This type of list is why the servo skull inquisitor has a permanent home in my Sisters lists right now. I even splurged on the armored battle car + female inquisitor models to get some more thematic models on to the board,
The skulls put a damper on the t1 alpha for sure, but luckily it is fast enough to not worry much. Such a dumb powerful list.
With good deployment and skulls, I can take away 2 turns of shooting from that list.
Doubtful.1 turn of shooting, yes.
T1 all the tanks can move up to ~ 6" from your deployment zone, or be 12" away and pop smoke. T2, guys can get out and effectively rapid fire with every plasmagun/bolter. unless you are less than 6" from your edge. Skulls do negate the T1 shenanigans though, haha.
Back to SoB stuff, is there any reason to not be taking 3 Dominion squads with melta given that most of the top lists rely on cover (Jink) saves? Seems like they would be one of the best units in the current meta.
This type of list is why the servo skull inquisitor has a permanent home in my Sisters lists right now. I even splurged on the armored battle car + female inquisitor models to get some more thematic models on to the board,
The skulls put a damper on the t1 alpha for sure, but luckily it is fast enough to not worry much. Such a dumb powerful list.
With good deployment and skulls, I can take away 2 turns of shooting from that list.
Doubtful.1 turn of shooting, yes.
T1 all the tanks can move up to ~ 6" from your deployment zone, or be 12" away and pop smoke. T2, guys can get out and effectively rapid fire with every plasmagun/bolter. unless you are less than 6" from your edge. Skulls do negate the T1 shenanigans though, haha.
Back to SoB stuff, is there any reason to not be taking 3 Dominion squads with melta given that most of the top lists rely on cover (Jink) saves? Seems like they would be one of the best units in the current meta.
while taking three dominions is usually a good call if I am taking saint celestine in a list then usually I am also taking a squad of seraphim to serve as bodyguards and to complement celestine with the shreds speical rule
This type of list is why the servo skull inquisitor has a permanent home in my Sisters lists right now. I even splurged on the armored battle car + female inquisitor models to get some more thematic models on to the board,
The skulls put a damper on the t1 alpha for sure, but luckily it is fast enough to not worry much. Such a dumb powerful list.
With good deployment and skulls, I can take away 2 turns of shooting from that list.
Doubtful.1 turn of shooting, yes.
T1 all the tanks can move up to ~ 6" from your deployment zone, or be 12" away and pop smoke. T2, guys can get out and effectively rapid fire with every plasmagun/bolter. unless you are less than 6" from your edge. Skulls do negate the T1 shenanigans though, haha.
Back to SoB stuff, is there any reason to not be taking 3 Dominion squads with melta given that most of the top lists rely on cover (Jink) saves? Seems like they would be one of the best units in the current meta.
Its SOB tactics, right? I've done exactly that multiple times now. Depending on deployment zones and objective placement, I can usually use the skulls to stop redeployment and the superior range of the exorcists to spread the board and stay out of range. Then I can either pseudo-null deploy with my dominions and place the AM component where it won't be exposed until I'm ready to shoot or put it in reserves as well. The trick is forcing the gladius to spread out so you can pick off its weaker elements on your terms.
I've always kind of wanted to start a Sisters army, but the cost has always made me shy away. It's a shame too, I've always enjoyed their fluff (what little bit of it I can find outside the codex.)
Join the fold. It is good and right that you do so. The Ecclesiarchy welcomes those who would make the lifelong commitment, and purges the unclean souls of those who oppose it.
War Kitten wrote: I've always kind of wanted to start a Sisters army, but the cost has always made me shy away. It's a shame too, I've always enjoyed their fluff (what little bit of it I can find outside the codex.)
Do it!! Its been the most fun I've had playing in a long time. I used to run marines exclusively for 13 years and I got tired of having what everyone else does. You get a unique army with Sisters that has cool rules, good backstory and is fun to play.
I'll keep that in mind thanks. I just may look into them after I finish up my Eldar (as I had already been picking up models for them) when I do I'll probably come back to this thread for advice.
Jancoran-- Can you say a little more about using the 4x HF Rets? I am in the process of acquiring the models to try it and I'm curious how you use them, deploy them, accompany them up the board, and which targets you find most/least validating.
PanzerLeader-- Similarly, can you expand on you Inquisitor/Servo Skulls package? I have some Inquisition models from way back, some Stormtroopers and a Chimera, no skulls, but some Assassins... I'd like to start toying with allied Inquisition stuff. What's the leverage you get with the skulls?
War Kitten-- I know a guy selling about 1500 worth of Sisters, base-coated black. Not the most optimized selections for this edition's meta, but a good starting point for an army, maybe $700+ at retail that he'll probably price at half that.
Jancoran-- Can you say a little more about using the 4x HF Rets? I am in the process of acquiring the models to try it and I'm curious how you use them, deploy them, accompany them up the board, and which targets you find most/least validating.
PanzerLeader-- Similarly, can you expand on you Inquisitor/Servo Skulls package? I have some Inquisition models from way back, some Stormtroopers and a Chimera, no skulls, but some Assassins... I'd like to start toying with allied Inquisition stuff. What's the leverage you get with the skulls?
War Kitten-- I know a guy selling about 1500 worth of Sisters, base-coated black. Not the most optimized selections for this edition's meta, but a good starting point for an army, maybe $700+ at retail that he'll probably price at half that.
Well, the way I used them in this case was to set them as "Guardians" to my Dominion squads. So the dominions would streak up the board and eliminate their targets, while the Retributors moved flat out i their rhino on the side closest to the enemy (meaning the enemy i anticipate still being alive after my alphs strike). If the closest enemies to the cluster are melee oritented, then they get the flamers to he face when charging or in round 2 potentially.
As the Rhino is the closest target, and provides important shielding to the Dominion Rhinos, it often will get charged or shot up. If charged, I get the Overwatch and then the subsequent round, I get the extremely nice quad Rending Heavy Flamers along plus my Combi Flamer and the rending Bolters! i generally dont get out of the Rhino unless i need to, since i can fire two from the hatch as it is. As the enemy spends a fair amount of time shooting at the Dominion themselves, they don't spend as much time trying to kill the rhinos but obviously the Retributor Rhino being closest, they probably will o nthat one. So after their counter punch, I get back IN the Rhinos and shoot from the enemy just to give the Dominions a little repreive from attrition and I do the same for the Retributors when I get out at all. My main purpose is to slow down the enemy damage output and athat is better accomplished in than out.
I don't use the minimum sized squads some people do. You need some ablative wounds to weather the storm that follows your initial strike. The Rhinos do an excellent job of cutting off LOS and limiting the damage to the units but ultimately they are exposed after their alpha strike so its imperative that you give them a little padding.
Thus far i have seen that 7-8 in each Dominion and/or Retributor Squad does the trick.
Also: I sometimes will instead keep the Retributors with the Sistrs of Battle Rhino. That depends on how isolated an objective might be. I'd rather the eenmy got forced to focus its attention on the Retributors who aren't obsec. So by coupling them and sending them on a solo mission (for example when i feel the alpha strike will clear out enough space that they dont need a guardian unit) the enemy has the unenviable decisin of whether to keep the heavy damage dealing unit first or the Obsec Sisters of Battle first...
So that is my approach to them. Retributors deal a LOT of damage. At top table. I was able to hit the Khorne dogs 30 times after they multicharged my Rhinos (they didn't kill either one but got close on one). So having them escort the Dominion is great against melee oritented things that must clump in order to attack the chassis. Its like Catnip. heheh. Come here kitty. come clump up n this rhino...
My 35 point loss is their 200 point loss (or whatever it is). =) Good times.
I would Mac, but I would like to finish up my Eldar first. I used to have a real bad habit of not finishing one army before starting another. I would love to pick up those sisters, but I need to finish up one army before I start another.
(You can still get 2 50 man blobs in a single troops choice.)
