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Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/03 07:28:23


Post by: Singleton Mosby


I've used Kraken for every game I played so far (just four) and it worked well. Guess I'll stick with it .

What about the Mawloc, any good experiences with it?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/04 16:10:28


Post by: Strat_N8


 Singleton Mosby wrote:
What are the thoughts on Mawlocs? I'm gearing up for a 1000 pts tourney in a couple of weeks and am not sure yet if I will swap out one of my Carnifexes for a Mawloc (monster list with OOE).


Most of my experiences with Mawlocs in 8th has been that they are a cheap nuisance for the most part. Their main strength is positional dominance. They are excellent at popping up in inconvenient places to block movement (especially if you can position them to prevent enemies from withdrawing from combat).

That being said, I'm not sure I'd drop a Carnifex for one. The Mawloc has more wounds but the Carnifex has T7 and (presumably) a -1 to hit so they should be roughly equal in durability. The Carnifex has a lot more offensive potential though and taking a Mawloc means one less beneficiary of Old One Eye's aura.


 Singleton Mosby wrote:

And another question: I am toubting which hivefleet is more suitable for a monster list (no swarmy): either Kraken or Jorm. I like the +1 on the save, but it makes me slower as I won't advance. Kraken is very fast indeed which has its cons. I tend to go for Kraken as it means I'll be shoving my carnifexes into my opponents face quicker (sometimes with Onslaught and the strategem).


Kraken is probably going to be the best for melee or mixed-role Carnifexes, since it lets them withdraw and recharge to get Living Battering Ram up every turn. Shooty Carnifexes are happy enough with Jormungandr, though in personal experience Jormungandr is best run as a more combined arms fleet (it wants a shooting monster component and a tunneling component).

If you are running pure monsters Gorgon might be worth looking at. The relic is nice for a warlord monster (T9 for a Tervigon, T8 for a Hive Tyrant) and the trait gets progressively better the higher your strength is.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/05 11:05:46


Post by: Timeshadow


Mawloc's best trick is first turn board presence so your good stuff can be safe in DS then burrow 1st turn and pop out with other DS stuff 2nd turn. I like using a Malanthrope and 2 big blobs of stealers up front with a pair of Mawlocs. The 2 big beast just scream at the opp to shoot at them and draw lots of fire. They have lots of wounds and with the -1 to be hit are very resilent. Then they burrow and DS turn 2 for some chomping.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/05 14:41:59


Post by: lindsay40k


Hmm. If “any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed”, and a Mawloc uses its Burrow ability, does the fact that it has arrived on the battlefield mean it can hide underground past the third round without getting killed off a cave-in?

I rarely see one survive until the turn after it emerges, but it eats something like a remote Havoc Squad, it’d be nice to tag it into another location...


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/05 14:46:32


Post by: Emicrania


Is it possible to make a MW battery list with Mawloc, biovores and zoanthrope + Genestealers?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/05 14:47:31


Post by: Timeshadow


 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. If “any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed”, and a Mawloc uses its Burrow ability, does the fact that it has arrived on the battlefield mean it can hide underground past the third round without getting killed off a cave-in?

I rarely see one survive until the turn after it emerges, but it eats something like a remote Havoc Squad, it’d be nice to tag it into another location...


All that "Has not arrived by turn 3' jazz is only for models that haven't already been on the field so a Mawloc definitly can burrow turn 3 and come in turn 4 or burrow turn 4 and come in turn 5 as long as time permits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Emicrania wrote:
Is it possible to make a MW battery list with Mawloc, biovores and zoanthrope + Genestealers?


Sure I've had some success with 6 biovores and 2 sporocytes just raining down mines... a very funny moment for me was when I put a pair of mines just in front of a pair of knights at a bottleneck in the terrain during a tournament.... and they couldn't walk over them as they are not infantry models. Stopped him dead in his tracks. Won me the game.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/05 15:33:55


Post by: Emicrania


Timeshadow wrote:
 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. If “any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed”, and a Mawloc uses its Burrow ability, does the fact that it has arrived on the battlefield mean it can hide underground past the third round without getting killed off a cave-in?

I rarely see one survive until the turn after it emerges, but it eats something like a remote Havoc Squad, it’d be nice to tag it into another location...


All that "Has not arrived by turn 3' jazz is only for models that haven't already been on the field so a Mawloc definitly can burrow turn 3 and come in turn 4 or burrow turn 4 and come in turn 5 as long as time permits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Emicrania wrote:
Is it possible to make a MW battery list with Mawloc, biovores and zoanthrope + Genestealers?


Sure I've had some success with 6 biovores and 2 sporocytes just raining down mines... a very funny moment for me was when I put a pair of mines just in front of a pair of knights at a bottleneck in the terrain during a tournament.... and they couldn't walk over them as they are not infantry models. Stopped him dead in his tracks. Won me the game.



Interesting, what else did you have in the list?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/05 21:54:05


Post by: Badablack


I’ve tried lists with a mawloc, 3 squads of zoanthropes and a Maleceptor to punish castles. It puts out a stupid amount of mortal wounds, but you’ll never pull it off more than once before your opponent learns and spreads their stuff out.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/06 06:58:06


Post by: Singleton Mosby


Interesting insights lads. Thanks. I will include one Mawloc in my list for the comming tournament and see how it goes.

Timeshadow wrote:
Mawloc's best trick is first turn board presence so your good stuff can be safe in DS then burrow 1st turn and pop out with other DS stuff 2nd turn.


Didn't think of this, but that's a very nice way of using him.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/06 15:20:11


Post by: Timeshadow


 Emicrania wrote:
Timeshadow wrote:
 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. If “any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed”, and a Mawloc uses its Burrow ability, does the fact that it has arrived on the battlefield mean it can hide underground past the third round without getting killed off a cave-in?

I rarely see one survive until the turn after it emerges, but it eats something like a remote Havoc Squad, it’d be nice to tag it into another location...


All that "Has not arrived by turn 3' jazz is only for models that haven't already been on the field so a Mawloc definitly can burrow turn 3 and come in turn 4 or burrow turn 4 and come in turn 5 as long as time permits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Emicrania wrote:
Is it possible to make a MW battery list with Mawloc, biovores and zoanthrope + Genestealers?


Sure I've had some success with 6 biovores and 2 sporocytes just raining down mines... a very funny moment for me was when I put a pair of mines just in front of a pair of knights at a bottleneck in the terrain during a tournament.... and they couldn't walk over them as they are not infantry models. Stopped him dead in his tracks. Won me the game.



Interesting, what else did you have in the list?


Actully now that I think about it I am mixing 2 lists together cause the Mawloc list didn't have Biovores but the concept works here is one I knocked together.

2000pts evin
Battalion Kronos:
Nerothrope
Nerothrope
Hive Guard Impailer (6)
Ripper Brood (3) x3 (one brood with spinemaws to use 6 extra pts)
Biovire brood (3) x2

Fort Network: Kronos
Sporocyte

Battalion: Kraken

Broodlord
Malanthrope
Genestealers (20) x2
Termigaunts (20)
Mawloc x2

You deploy the Kraken units aggressively with the Mawlocs up front along with the genestealers and Malanthrope.
Keep your Kronos gun blob generally together behind LOS blocking.

First turn advance both Genestealer blobs using strats ect to get them in opp's face if needed use strat to dbl move Malanthrope to keep GS in shroud bubble. Burrow Mawlocs to chomp from below 2nd turn
If you go second the Mawlocs will draw a ton of fire (hopefully protecting your genestealers) and make your opp think too hard. Evin at 1 W a Mawloc is fully effective with it's burrow attack.

My original list dropped the guns and sporocyte for Sup command of Leviathan Flyrants (MRC/2xDiv) with slight tweeks to fill out pts.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/08 16:09:34


Post by: Odrankt


I have a 1500pt game coming up this Thursday and planning on running 2x30 fleshborer Gaunts and a Tervigon. Just got a quick question about the Tervigon Spawn ability.

Are you able to bring back up to 10 models per fleshborer termagaunt unit or is it that I can bring back 10 Gaunts and I have to choose how they Spawn e.g. I have 2 fleshborer Gaunts units that both lost 8 dudes. Am I able to bring back up to 10 Gaunts in both units or put 5 into one unit and 5 into the other.

Thanks for the help.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/08 18:41:00


Post by: lindsay40k


 Odrankt wrote:
I have a 1500pt game coming up this Thursday and planning on running 2x30 fleshborer Gaunts and a Tervigon. Just got a quick question about the Tervigon Spawn ability.

Are you able to bring back up to 10 models per fleshborer termagaunt unit or is it that I can bring back 10 Gaunts and I have to choose how they Spawn e.g. I have 2 fleshborer Gaunts units that both lost 8 dudes. Am I able to bring back up to 10 Gaunts in both units or put 5 into one unit and 5 into the other.

Thanks for the help.

Either spawn one new unit, or recycle ten dead within a single existing unit


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/08 22:48:36


Post by: Nitro Zeus


You'll be replacing models that die in the one unit.

The best use of Tervigon is replacing Fleshborer body shields for Devourer's in squads. Run like 10 or 15 Devourers per 30 man Termagant and you'll get more mileage than usual.

Making new units costs points so that's generally a bad idea.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/08 23:25:47


Post by: Strat_N8


 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Making new units costs points so that's generally a bad idea.


Just a hypothetical, but perhaps it might be worthwhile if you are doing a pure 'nidzilla list but still want the option having an emergency screen if you need to roadblock something? If there are enough monsters on the table and no Termagants to replenish or hit with psychic feedback the Tervigon should be lower priority than usual. Maybe put 80 points aside and if the Tervigon dies before dropping the second squad use Endless Swarm as a backup?

At that point the Tervigon is a glorified dedicated transport, but still.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/09 07:16:55


Post by: Odrankt


Either spawn one new unit, or recycle ten dead within a single existing unit


Cheers mate. Thanks for the clarification.

This is the list I am thinking about playing, it's only a friendly game so the list should do okay.

Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [51 PL, 872pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Leviathan

+ HQ +

Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts]

Tervigon [13 PL, 199pts]: Massive Scything Talons, Power: The Horror, Stinger Salvo, Toxin Sacs

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

Termagants [9 PL, 200pts]
. 20x Termagant (Devourer): 20x Devourer
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer)

+ Heavy Support +

Trygon [9 PL, 157pts]: 3x Massive Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs, Toxinspike

+ Dedicated Transport +

Tyrannocyte [8 PL, 135pts]: 5x Venom Cannon

++ Battalion Detachment +5 CP(Tyranids) [37 PL, 592pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ HQ +

Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts]

Hive Tyrant [9 PL, 171pts]: 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms

+ Troops +

Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]
. 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

++ Total: [88 PL, 1,464pts] ++


Basic idea is that Turn 1 the Tervigon, 30 Gaunts, Trygon, Tyrannocyte and 2 ripper swarms go into reserves. Leaving Give Tyrant, 2 rippers, 2 Broodlords and 20 genestealers on my table hopefully all behind Losb terrain minimalising the damage I'll take.

Turn 2 I will then drop the Tervigon + Cyte and Trygon + Gaunts into my Opponents face while my 20 genestealers are in terrain ready to do charges while not getting overwatched.

Only thing I'm sure about is the Tyrant. Should I give him wings so he can DS as well for Turn 2 safety? It will have chameleonic mutation for -1 to hit.

2nd broodlord is in Leviathan as I plan to make him my warlord and to have it hide in my Deployment with it's 6+++ so it will be hard to get Kingslayer.

Thoughts on what I should do?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/10 04:48:10


Post by: Nitro Zeus


Tyranids + GSC placed at two different GT's over the weekend (second and forth), and neither time using any Hive Guard, or anything that could really be considered true AT at all besides some Acolytes with Rock Saws.

I don't like relying on purely deepstrike - especially with more and more 12" DS deny bubbles popping up in armys, Forwarned, and stratagems like Vect for blocking perfect ambush - which is why I'm playing Nids in the first place, for that more reliable ground based play.

But I also don't like relying on Hive Guard either considering how easily some armies counter them too. So I'm currently using a squad of both.

Just wanted to share these results anyway.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/10 09:53:57


Post by: Eihnlazer


Honestly yes, the more I think about it, the more I realize the points spent on hive guard would be far more effective just putting more bodies on the table.

You can get a full squad of stealers and some more gaunts and just flood the board with bodies.

Hive guard really only shine againgst T7 or Heavy infantry reliant armies (custodies/chaos daemon engine lists).

They just don't justify their investment in almost any other case.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/11 15:19:04


Post by: Dynas


Got 2nd out of 67. Doesn't seem that strong. What am I missing?

2nd Place

Josh McMillan - Battle in the Bush



++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [47 PL, 753pts] ++
Discipline: Hive Mind
Hive Fleet: Jormungandr


+ HQ +
Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]
Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 78pts]: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws


+ Troops +
Hormagaunts [9 PL, 115pts]: 23x Hormagaunt
Termagants [9 PL, 100pts]
. 25x Termagant (Fleshborer)
Tyranid Warriors [13 PL, 266pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Adrenal Glands, Rending Claws, Venom Cannon

. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Adrenal Glands, Rending Claws, Venom Cannon


+ Heavy Support +
Mawloc [6 PL, 104pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [57 PL, 782pts] ++
Hive Fleet: Kraken
+ HQ +

Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts]: Chameleonic Mutation

The Swarmlord [15 PL, 250pts]


+ Troops +
Genestealers [16 PL, 192pts]: 4x Acid Maw
. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws
Genestealers [16 PL, 192pts]: 4x Acid Maw

. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm


++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Tyranids) [22 PL, 465pts] ++
Hive Fleet: Kronos


+ HQ +
Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts]: Warlord


+ Heavy Support +
Biovores [6 PL, 150pts]: 3x Biovore
Biovores [2 PL, 50pts]: Biovore
Biovores [6 PL, 150pts]: 3x Biovore


++ Total: [126 PL, 2,000pts] ++


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/11 17:05:58


Post by: Badablack


Well he’s got psychic shutdown with the Kronos Biovores, a turn 1 delivery system with the Kraken Swarmlord + genestealers, and a solid rock of troops with the Jorm Warriors. Not all that damaging but it covers all your bases and denies all your opponent’s.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/11 23:14:22


Post by: Nitro Zeus


 Dynas wrote:
Got 2nd out of 67. Doesn't seem that strong. What am I missing?

2nd Place

Josh McMillan - Battle in the Bush



Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [47 PL, 753pts] ++
Discipline: Hive Mind
Hive Fleet: Jormungandr


+ HQ +
Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]
Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 78pts]: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws


+ Troops +
Hormagaunts [9 PL, 115pts]: 23x Hormagaunt
Termagants [9 PL, 100pts]
. 25x Termagant (Fleshborer)
Tyranid Warriors [13 PL, 266pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Adrenal Glands, Deathspitter, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Adrenal Glands, Rending Claws, Venom Cannon

. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Adrenal Glands, Rending Claws, Venom Cannon


+ Heavy Support +
Mawloc [6 PL, 104pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [57 PL, 782pts] ++
Hive Fleet: Kraken
+ HQ +

Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts]: Chameleonic Mutation

The Swarmlord [15 PL, 250pts]


+ Troops +
Genestealers [16 PL, 192pts]: 4x Acid Maw
. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws
Genestealers [16 PL, 192pts]: 4x Acid Maw

. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm


++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Tyranids) [22 PL, 465pts] ++
Hive Fleet: Kronos


+ HQ +
Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts]: Warlord


+ Heavy Support +
Biovores [6 PL, 150pts]: 3x Biovore
Biovores [2 PL, 50pts]: Biovore
Biovores [6 PL, 150pts]: 3x Biovore


++ Total: [126 PL, 2,000pts] ++

He used the Mawloc to bring in the Warriors with the stratagem. Adrenal Glands give them 8" charge. I'm guessing saved a CP re-roll for it.

He doesn't like Hive Guard much for similar reasons that I'm turning off them as well. To quote myself here:
Spoiler:
 Nitro Zeus wrote:
I know it's going to sound like blasphemy, but I've been finding Hive Guard to be less and less effective. They are highly terrain dependant, which is sometimes a problem if you get the wrong table edge (or just the wrong table in some events - yes, I know they should be using more terrain, but the fact is plenty of places just don't), and also extremely match up dependant. Vs Knights for example they basically take an entire game of chewing up CP to down a single Knight which is basically not even worth doing, and they just get evaporated immediately vs anything with highly mobile shooting that can get an angle on them (Aeldari / Necron / Guard flyers for example) because even with the newer bases they still have a significant footprint. Let alone the amount of units that do "no-LoS" even better and don't even need LoS to delete them, like Broadsides. And in the mirror, you have no way of guaranteeing you shoot first, or if they have Flyrants for whatever reason (which aren't a top tier unit anymore but also aren't uncommon to see in some form) they can just chew em out. I take more than enough Gants to screen them out from deepstrikers, but blocking deepstriker threats just isn't enough to protect them anymore I think. They are decent when they are good, buy in the current state of the game they feel a little too coinflippy.
Seems like he preferred 7 Biovores instead for a similar role.

For what it's worth though, he also referred to this list as his "gak Nids" because people laughed at what he was bringing. Then 5-0'd them at a 70 man event though.

TBH other than the Mawloc and Warriors, it looks pretty good to me. And even that isn't terrible either, though I'd at least prefer a Trygon over the Mawloc or something that can have an impact, especially since it would let you move away from Jorm (maybe Behemoth for re-rolls on the Warriors).


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/12 01:03:35


Post by: pinecone77


 Badablack wrote:
Well he’s got psychic shutdown with the Kronos Biovores, a turn 1 delivery system with the Kraken Swarmlord + genestealers, and a solid rock of troops with the Jorm Warriors. Not all that damaging but it covers all your bases and denies all your opponent’s.

That looks like a fine list, I'm guessing he usually tunnels in the Warriors. And he has two Kraken swarms of Stealers that is a lot of force he can bring on in the first turn or so.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/12 10:51:13


Post by: Spoletta


I doubt that he did charge with the warriors.
I have to check if you can do that geometrically, but It is more likely that he deep struck the mawlock in mortal wound range of a target, and tunneled the warriors on the far end of it, which should 9" away from the target. You double shoot the warriors (with prime bonus), keep the cover bonus and charge in the next turn.

Without the hive guards, he needed a good target for the double shoot stratagem, and those warriors are quite good for it.

Stealers are there for a shock attack turn 1 and additional pressure on turn 2. By turn 2 you are swarmed by the warriors, the mawlock and the gaunts. Broodlords go in for the final kills.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/12 11:41:39


Post by: Nitro Zeus


I mean, that is his own words on what he did, he's an Australian itc player who I asked personally about the list. It's why he took something with AG, specifically to turn that 9" to an 8".

as for SMA targets, he had 2 full units of Biovores.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/12 12:42:47


Post by: Spoletta


Oh, i though we were guessing.

Also, depends on the target, but usually 8 warriors (with prime) are a much better SMA target that 3 biovores.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/12 14:12:39


Post by: Dynas


Spoletta wrote:
I doubt that he did charge with the warriors.
I have to check if you can do that geometrically, but It is more likely that he deep struck the mawlock in mortal wound range of a target, and tunneled the warriors on the far end of it, which should 9" away from the target. You double shoot the warriors (with prime bonus), keep the cover bonus and charge in the next turn.

Without the hive guards, he needed a good target for the double shoot stratagem, and those warriors are quite good for it.

Stealers are there for a shock attack turn 1 and additional pressure on turn 2. By turn 2 you are swarmed by the warriors, the mawlock and the gaunts. Broodlords go in for the final kills.


Agreed. I see the warriors as a high Armor save fire base for double shoot. I think the mawloc was the mortal wound add on to finish off what biovores shot. Or perhaps pop him up behind a unit that the Genestealers charged to prevent them from falling back. But then again, this guy placed 2nd and I didn't. Maybe have to consider the warriors for the charge like he did.

What was the warlord trait for the broodlord??


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/12 14:54:30


Post by: Nitro Zeus


He just considered the Warriors as another unit of Stealers. Except unlike Stealers, they get to shoot if they whiff the charge so they still have some impact (and also dirt cheap AG), and then cause of Jorm they get to sit there with a 3+ save and hopefully distract some fire while he gets in with other units.

He was double shooting Biovores vs Knights and vs Custodes, but you could always do it on the Warriors too. Either way they are still DS’ing and charging.

He said he’s dropping some Biovores for OOE. Also don’t consider this list some ironed out game plan, he had a bunch of untested ideas he threw into the list, and also got tabled in his first practice match which contributed to the list name “gak nids” but it was locked in for the event. Luckily for him he played it well and got that 2nd place finish.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/12 15:09:00


Post by: Dynas


 Nitro Zeus wrote:
He just considered the Warriors as another unit of Stealers. Except unlike Stealers, they get to shoot if they whiff the charge so they still have some impact (and also dirt cheap AG), and then cause of Jorm they get to sit there with a 3+ save and hopefully distract some fire while he gets in with other units.

He was double shooting Biovores vs Knights and vs Custodes, but you could always do it on the Warriors too. Either way they are still DS’ing and charging.

He said he’s dropping some Biovores for OOE. Also don’t consider this list some ironed out game plan, he had a bunch of untested ideas he threw into the list, and also got tabled in his first practice match which contributed to the list name “gak nids” but it was locked in for the event. Luckily for him he played it well and got that 2nd place finish.


What warlord trait did he take? One step ahead for GS buff?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/12 15:09:32


Post by: Spoletta


He doesn't get the jormu bonus if he tries the charge.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/12 15:40:38


Post by: Nitro Zeus


True he doesn’t. Points still stands otherwise though


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/16 02:44:57


Post by: RogueApiary


Anybody have recent experience running horde style lists? I've been wanting to pivot back to my Nids but all the lists I've built feel like they won't work out even at the early list building stage and I can't come up with a scenario where the big gun bugs live long enough to shoot or the big chompy bugs make it into cc. Everything just feels so expensive for their durability/offense.

Feeling like 210+ gaunts/gants as the core might be the way to go, but then the killing power is severely reduced so killed more is off the table and killed one is a struggle in ITC and the inherent clock issues with running that many models.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/16 03:32:55


Post by: lindsay40k


You could run Behemoth for MW strat with Hormagaunt horde. Maybe build the list to get the bulk of its ITC VPs early to mitigate clock issues? Not a full fix, as the list becomes one that tanks its opponents’ scores, but doesn’t get the full game’s worth of VPs needed to really climb the ladder. A gatekeeper, not a last boss.

Maybe embrace that and leverage the fact that most opponents will probably not have practiced much using their lists against hordes. It is a format that disincentivises that sort of list, meaning there’s probably going to be fewer anti-horde measures. If you can be the school of piranha that’s swum into a lake where everything’s adapted to fight whales, it could be open season.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/16 16:31:37


Post by: N.I.B.


 Nitro Zeus wrote:
He just considered the Warriors as another unit of Stealers. Except unlike Stealers, they get to shoot if they whiff the charge so they still have some impact (and also dirt cheap AG), and then cause of Jorm they get to sit there with a 3+ save and hopefully distract some fire while he gets in with other units.

He was double shooting Biovores vs Knights and vs Custodes, but you could always do it on the Warriors too. Either way they are still DS’ing and charging.

He said he’s dropping some Biovores for OOE. Also don’t consider this list some ironed out game plan, he had a bunch of untested ideas he threw into the list, and also got tabled in his first practice match which contributed to the list name “gak nids” but it was locked in for the event. Luckily for him he played it well and got that 2nd place finish.

He used the Mawloc to bring in the Warriors with the stratagem. Adrenal Glands give them 8" charge. I'm guessing saved a CP re-roll for it.

TBH other than the Mawloc and Warriors, it looks pretty good to me. And even that isn't terrible either, though I'd at least prefer a Trygon over the Mawloc or something that can have an impact, especially since it would let you move away from Jorm (maybe Behemoth for re-rolls on the Warriors).

Jormungandr gives the Mawloc a 2+ save when it pops up, and the deepstrike strat. If you go with Behemoth you'd be forced to give them a Tyrannocyte, which would suck. Mawloc isn't the best taxi though, because it's rare that it can be both with 2" of enemies and have its passengers outside of 9". I'd consider 3 Raveners and save 40pts.
Trygon is nice when it randomly nails the charge, but it's much more expensive than the Mawloc. It does open up for Kraken instead of Jormungandr.

OOE is nice, too bad he costs 4 Biovores.

Rending Claws on the Warriors? I assume it's because he didn't have enough bits around to give them Boneswords, which are much better for the same cost.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/16 17:12:23


Post by: catbarf


 N.I.B. wrote:
Rending Claws on the Warriors? I assume it's because he didn't have enough bits around to give them Boneswords, which are much better for the same cost.


I was thinking the same thing; I've run the math and pretty much the only thing Rending Claws are better against is T8/3+ vehicles, and they're still not very good at it.

Honestly I think our melee weapons need a re-work. They need clearer roles and reasons to choose one over another.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/17 05:37:21


Post by: N.I.B.


Yup, before Cruddace happened, Tyranids had the unique army wide perk of not getting a bonus attack when equipped with two melee weapons, instead they got the special abilities from both. Now in the name of streamlining they have to chose one weapon, like all other factions.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/18 02:21:40


Post by: Dynas


 catbarf wrote:
 N.I.B. wrote:
Rending Claws on the Warriors? I assume it's because he didn't have enough bits around to give them Boneswords, which are much better for the same cost.


I was thinking the same thing; I've run the math and pretty much the only thing Rending Claws are better against is T8/3+ vehicles, and they're still not very good at it.

Honestly I think our melee weapons need a re-work. They need clearer roles and reasons to choose one over another.


This. There's a lot of knights still. Get into CC with them and go to town.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/18 06:26:26


Post by: N.I.B.


 Dynas wrote:
 catbarf wrote:
 N.I.B. wrote:
Rending Claws on the Warriors? I assume it's because he didn't have enough bits around to give them Boneswords, which are much better for the same cost.


I was thinking the same thing; I've run the math and pretty much the only thing Rending Claws are better against is T8/3+ vehicles, and they're still not very good at it.

Honestly I think our melee weapons need a re-work. They need clearer roles and reasons to choose one over another.


This. There's a lot of knights still. Get into CC with them and go to town.

Not sure what you mean, but Tyranid Warriors will never "go to town" on a Knight in cc, regardless of their weapon of choice. Nine rending Warriors averages 3 wounds to a Knight, bonesword Warriors averages 2,64 wounds. The difference is very small, and a nearby Prime for WS boost doesn't help much. Boneswords are clearly the better choice for an all-comers list.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/19 13:59:25


Post by: lindsay40k


Don’t you get over twice as many GS attacks as you do TW attacks for a given number of points? To say nothing of the more convoluted process required to have TWs reach a Knight. Yeah, they can jump out of like a tunnel, but that requires your opponent to not bother screening a Knight when they can see you have a Trygon.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/20 08:37:16


Post by: N.I.B.


 lindsay40k wrote:
Don’t you get over twice as many GS attacks as you do TW attacks for a given number of points? To say nothing of the more convoluted process required to have TWs reach a Knight. Yeah, they can jump out of like a tunnel, but that requires your opponent to not bother screening a Knight when they can see you have a Trygon.

Yeah Warriors are kind of lame as a spearhead unit. Their best feature is half-decent shooting when backed up by a buffing Alpha, and decent survivability along with handing out fearless to your critters.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/22 01:10:44


Post by: Nitro Zeus


 N.I.B. wrote:
 Nitro Zeus wrote:
He just considered the Warriors as another unit of Stealers. Except unlike Stealers, they get to shoot if they whiff the charge so they still have some impact (and also dirt cheap AG), and then cause of Jorm they get to sit there with a 3+ save and hopefully distract some fire while he gets in with other units.

He was double shooting Biovores vs Knights and vs Custodes, but you could always do it on the Warriors too. Either way they are still DS’ing and charging.

He said he’s dropping some Biovores for OOE. Also don’t consider this list some ironed out game plan, he had a bunch of untested ideas he threw into the list, and also got tabled in his first practice match which contributed to the list name “gak nids” but it was locked in for the event. Luckily for him he played it well and got that 2nd place finish.

He used the Mawloc to bring in the Warriors with the stratagem. Adrenal Glands give them 8" charge. I'm guessing saved a CP re-roll for it.

TBH other than the Mawloc and Warriors, it looks pretty good to me. And even that isn't terrible either, though I'd at least prefer a Trygon over the Mawloc or something that can have an impact, especially since it would let you move away from Jorm (maybe Behemoth for re-rolls on the Warriors).

Jormungandr gives the Mawloc a 2+ save when it pops up, and the deepstrike strat. If you go with Behemoth you'd be forced to give them a Tyrannocyte, which would suck. Mawloc isn't the best taxi though, because it's rare that it can be both with 2" of enemies and have its passengers outside of 9". I'd consider 3 Raveners and save 40pts.
Trygon is nice when it randomly nails the charge, but it's much more expensive than the Mawloc. It does open up for Kraken instead of Jormungandr.

I literally said Behemoth if you take a Trygon, because otherwise you are forced to go Jorm. You obviously can’t go Behemoth with the Mawloc and Warriors, that was my point. Swapping to a Trygon gives you a model with damage output closer to being fair for his cost, saves you CP on the strat, and let’s you go Behemoth for the random charge he was making every single time he deployed them and turning that 27% chance into 55%. It costs a little more so Raveners are also an option, that just seemed further away from his list when I picked one.

OOE is nice, too bad he costs 4 Biovores.



I think you mean “Biovores are nice, too bad 4 of them cost as much as OOE”. OOE is priced very nicely, Biovores are still kinda iffy at their cost.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/24 08:37:54


Post by: N.I.B.


 Nitro Zeus wrote:

OOE is nice, too bad he costs 4 Biovores.



I think you mean “Biovores are nice, too bad 4 of them cost as much as OOE”. OOE is priced very nicely, Biovores are still kinda iffy at their cost.


Well, for sure. OOE is reasonably costed and Biovores were overnerfed (why does it seems that Nids always get the knee-jerk overnerfs) but I'm not sure that list can lose 4 Biovores and work as intended.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/24 11:16:49


Post by: Nitro Zeus


Fair enough. Points efficiency isn’t always representative of role necessity!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/25 07:46:26


Post by: Amishprn86


 N.I.B. wrote:
 Nitro Zeus wrote:

OOE is nice, too bad he costs 4 Biovores.



I think you mean “Biovores are nice, too bad 4 of them cost as much as OOE”. OOE is priced very nicely, Biovores are still kinda iffy at their cost.


Well, for sure. OOE is reasonably costed and Biovores were overnerfed (why does it seems that Nids always get the knee-jerk overnerfs) but I'm not sure that list can lose 4 Biovores and work as intended.


Nids are always first to get over nerf, i remember 4th to 5th, Cruddance even said once that nids needs to be tone down b.c they can ruin guard to easily, sure it was a joke comment in some white dwarf years ago, but..... comments like that i dont think are jokes.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/25 10:22:20


Post by: Nitro Zeus


That might explain the awful 5th ed Tyranid codex that he wrote shortly following that then.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/25 13:24:12


Post by: Dynas


Yup, We seem to be good for about 3 months after each Codex drops then any trick we have is killed.

Meanwhile we get power armor rolling out the factories faster than Ford Model T's. *BARF*


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/26 21:47:21


Post by: v0iddrgn


Is there any point to playing Nids at the tournament level when Marines are just going to ROFL stomp everything we have in 2 turns or less?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/26 23:28:54


Post by: Strat_N8


What specifically are you thinking of? Aggressors are a nuisance but I have not seen anything else that is especially troublesome for Tyranids or Tyranids + GSC.

Admittedly I have not dug too deep into the various codex supplements, so there could be something that I am unaware of.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/09/27 08:18:57


Post by: Spoletta


Nids are mostly fine against the new marines.

On the contrary, it could have become easier for us. Sure, those marines are beefed up, but they are now without the cheap screens needed to keep our jaws away from their limbs.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/03 16:53:49


Post by: v0iddrgn


So, I was thinking about how to get to those support character the SM's rely so heavily on. Has anyone tried DSing Zoes in to use their Pychic Barrage strat yet? Seems like a viable way to ruin someone's day.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/03 18:17:33


Post by: Eldarain


Tunneling in 9 with Jormangundr could be ok. Fishing for 5s against characters though.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/03 18:51:36


Post by: v0iddrgn


 Eldarain wrote:
Tunneling in 9 with Jormangundr could be ok. Fishing for 5s against characters though.
Save a CP reroll for a priority Character. It's basically all we have to snipe Characters with.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/03 19:23:59


Post by: Dynas


 Eldarain wrote:
Tunneling in 9 with Jormangundr could be ok. Fishing for 5s against characters though.


Good players screen DS with scouts or the new non dreadnought warsuit.

Space Marines are way OP now.

Best bet. Ignore the Leviathan dread buff guy, kill everything else. Play for objectives, board control. Take LoS blocking terrain, try and get some charges off where he cant see you so he can't overwatch and then wrap, pile in and consolidate.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/03 19:39:06


Post by: v0iddrgn


 Dynas wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Tunneling in 9 with Jormangundr could be ok. Fishing for 5s against characters though.


Good players screen DS with scouts or the new non dreadnought warsuit.

Space Marines are way OP now.

Best bet. Ignore the Leviathan dread buff guy, kill everything else. Play for objectives, board control. Take LoS blocking terrain, try and get some charges off where he cant see you so he can't overwatch and then wrap, pile in and consolidate.
Why not both? And are you sure you're aware of the strategem I'm referring to? You pick a point and roll for units within 3". Screening units be damned.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/03 19:42:42


Post by: tneva82


Looks similar to necron doom scythe stratagem.

Alas there's one issue. He can use another stratagem to make nearby buddies to take mortal wounds instead of the character. Albeit that squad takes tons of damage then but character is safe.

(had been hoping to use doom scythe stratagem but with bodyguard unit it's just not enough mortal wounds to kill character)


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/03 19:54:34


Post by: Dynas


Can anyone verify the rumors of Blood Angel and Nids getting updates/new models/drops for Psychic Awakening early Jan 2020? I saw it on the BA thread.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/04 04:44:41


Post by: v0iddrgn


Just to be clear, the Iron Hands stratagem to shunt wounds from a Character to other units only happens to work in the Shooting phase. Sucks for Doom Scythe strat but Zoanthropes work in a different phase altogether.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/04 08:07:52


Post by: Eldarain


That is definitely a point in it's favour. What else would you build with the 1571?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/04 10:13:06


Post by: topaxygouroun i


Zoanthropes are just too damn expensive at the moment. With a min of 3 models per unit, we're talking about a 120 pt non character psyker in the least. And for 120 pts, this psyker isn't even that amazing. Normal sorcerers have a wider variety of spells to pick + character protection and they cost 90 pts.

Even worse, to even take three units (360) pts + delivery system, wait one turn, then hope and pray on a bunch of 4+ isn't my idea of strategy honestly.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/04 13:08:58


Post by: v0iddrgn


topaxygouroun i wrote:
Zoanthropes are just too damn expensive at the moment. With a min of 3 models per unit, we're talking about a 120 pt non character psyker in the least. And for 120 pts, this psyker isn't even that amazing. Normal sorcerers have a wider variety of spells to pick + character protection and they cost 90 pts.

Even worse, to even take three units (360) pts + delivery system, wait one turn, then hope and pray on a bunch of 4+ isn't my idea of strategy honestly.
Good for you, but I don't think I agree with your assessment. Zoanthropes get 3++, SitW, Synapse and 9 wounds minimum, that's pretty good for 120 points and I don't care if you can target them or not. Oh, they also have Fly and their Smite goes 24" instead of 18". Hive Mind powers are not gak either. Again your assess should not be paid any mind.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/04 13:52:54


Post by: Nitro Zeus


By what measure is that pretty good? Ignoring the heals, Neurothropes are 30 pts cheaper, get 2 casts instead of one, have a bonus to casting, and can't even be targeted making them far more durable even with 5 wounds instead of 9. And that's post nerf Neurothropes. Yeah I just don't see it.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/04 14:01:35


Post by: v0iddrgn


 Nitro Zeus wrote:
By what measure is that pretty good? Ignoring the heals, Neurothropes are 30 pts cheaper, get 2 casts instead of one, have a bonus to casting, and can't even be targeted making them far more durable even with 5 wounds instead of 9. And that's post nerf Neurothropes. Yeah I just don't see it.
Can't use the stratagem with Neurothropes. That was the entire point of my original post, to have a decent chance (5+ rerollable) at sniping out those pesky SM support Characters. If you're happy with just going for objectives and board control then have at it, but yeah Neurothropes are SUPPOSED to be better than Zoanthropes hence they are an upgrade Character version. Duh!


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/04 16:28:18


Post by: Nitro Zeus


You didn’t mention the stratagem anywhere in the post I responded to. The stats you listed as good are not really at all.

Regardless the stratagem is a massive gimmick. Trygon + 9 Zoanthropes is a big footprint, you need real space to deploy and it’s not at all difficult to screen that out 18” from the castle especially since we don’t really clear screens by shooting. And say you get in and manage to get it off after like 3 turns of impact or whatever, you nuke the character, what then? Put some mortal wounds on half the vehicles and kill the HQ if you’re lucky? So what? We aren’t killing off those Dreads with or without him, the codex doesn’t have the AT for that and that’s not our gameplan without or without the Iron Father up. We want to rake the board and force fall backs on the dreads, 500 pts of Zoanthropes is still a waste even if it all works imo. And it’s a big if, 5+ with a CP reroll even if your opponent left the drawbridge down. Completely unreliable and not at all viable for anyone playing competitive imo

Neurothropes are meant to be better? I’m not sure how that’s a counter to me saying they are better, because yeah, they are much better.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/04 18:14:42


Post by: Dynas


v0iddrgn wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:
Zoanthropes are just too damn expensive at the moment. With a min of 3 models per unit, we're talking about a 120 pt non character psyker in the least. And for 120 pts, this psyker isn't even that amazing. Normal sorcerers have a wider variety of spells to pick + character protection and they cost 90 pts.

Even worse, to even take three units (360) pts + delivery system, wait one turn, then hope and pray on a bunch of 4+ isn't my idea of strategy honestly.
Good for you, but I don't think I agree with your assessment. Zoanthropes get 3++, SitW, Synapse and 9 wounds minimum, that's pretty good for 120 points and I don't care if you can target them or not. Oh, they also have Fly and their Smite goes 24" instead of 18". Hive Mind powers are not gak either. Again your assess should not be paid any mind.


I mean, all you have to do is screen out the smite so its not the closest unit.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/04 18:15:48


Post by: v0iddrgn


Okay, do it your way. Good luck with that at the tournaments I'm sure you've got this. Please post your results here when your finished.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/04 18:39:33


Post by: topaxygouroun i


 Dynas wrote:
v0iddrgn wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:
Zoanthropes are just too damn expensive at the moment. With a min of 3 models per unit, we're talking about a 120 pt non character psyker in the least. And for 120 pts, this psyker isn't even that amazing. Normal sorcerers have a wider variety of spells to pick + character protection and they cost 90 pts.

Even worse, to even take three units (360) pts + delivery system, wait one turn, then hope and pray on a bunch of 4+ isn't my idea of strategy honestly.
Good for you, but I don't think I agree with your assessment. Zoanthropes get 3++, SitW, Synapse and 9 wounds minimum, that's pretty good for 120 points and I don't care if you can target them or not. Oh, they also have Fly and their Smite goes 24" instead of 18". Hive Mind powers are not gak either. Again your assess should not be paid any mind.


I mean, all you have to do is screen out the smite so its not the closest unit.


The fact that the zoanthropes need to forfeit their turn to even try the stratagem and then fail half of the time is just the nail in the coffin. If I could take zoanthropes in 1+ like I can with lictors, that would be a different story. 3++ doesn't mean gak, you will still die to bolter fire like any other power armor does. Synapse you can get from a million other cheaper sources, and 9 wounds are not a lot for 120 pts that can be targeted.

I would however play a wall of 18 zoanthropes blocking pathing to the rest 1200 pts of my kronos gunline tho in some fluffy games. I would call it "The great wall of the mind."


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/04 23:57:06


Post by: Nitro Zeus


v0iddrgn wrote:
Okay, do it your way. Good luck with that at the tournaments I'm sure you've got this. Please post your results here when your finished.


Who are you even talking to lol?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/07 04:07:06


Post by: Strat_N8




Just going over highlights:

1. Improved AP: It is a nuisance but most of our units are relying on volume of wounds and to hit modifiers for durability, not good saves. I could see this suppressing Carnifexes a bit, but the T8 monsters should still be fine (especially if they get another price drop in the upcoming chapter approved) and it doesn't really affect the Hive Tyrant or Malceptor.

2. Iron Hands Castle: This is probably going to be a meta problem for awhile, but I think we are better equipped than most to deal with it. The entire thing hinges on denying multi-damage, which basically means switch to high rate of fire, low damage guns (Slimer Maggot Deathspitters, Brainleech Devourers) and mortal wound spam. We have a lot of options for dishing out mortal wounds between our psykers, living battering ram, spore mine weapons, Mawlocs, (hyper)Toxic Miasma, Acid Blood, Implant Attack, shock cannons, Swarmy, and tentaclids.

Also worth keeping in mind, our GSC allies have quite a few tools that can help too.
-> Multiple ways to snipe support characters
-> Overwatch denial (Amulet of the Voidwyrm or Mass Hypnosis).
-> Stratagem denial (A Plan Generations in the Making)


v0iddrgn wrote:So, I was thinking about how to get to those support character the SM's rely so heavily on. Has anyone tried DSing Zoes in to use their Pychic Barrage strat yet? Seems like a viable way to ruin someone's day.


As horrible as it sounds, Malceptors in Tyrannocytes could probably do that trick better with their overload ability. No CP cost and a 2+ to "hit" instead of a 4+ with modifiers.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/12 10:52:34


Post by: Thenord


Hey guys. I'm looking to give 40k another shot, after 2 years of playing 30k only..

I wanna start Nids since they're the most different from all the astsrters I've painted the last years.

I know how I wanna paint the buggers but have absolutely No idea about what to do list and tactics wise. Can some of you Experts give me a few hints to what units are great, medium and useless and maybe a few tips and tricks for tactics. Not asking for a full list build for me, just a few highlights of the army.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/12 13:42:04


Post by: Nitro Zeus


40 or so Termagants!
great for filling out battalions, tarpitting, scoring, and doing all the legwork for your army


Neurothropes
Smite + any one power off an excellent table, both in the same turn. I take all 3 and still have spells I wish I could cast from our table. Also the best way of filling out the HQ slots on those cheap battalions

Old One Eye
absolute beast of a model whether you take other Carnifexes or not (Carnifexes are also one of our better units).

Genestealers and/or Hormagaunts, you don't need many, one obviously has more teeth than the other, but just use Kraken abilities to speed these guys around the field and either tie a bunch of things up, and if you miss the wrap you force them to fall back and waste their turn for a cheap investment of points (Hormagaunts), or just outright kill them (Genestealers). I take a unit of both and decide which one to sling depending on opponents deployments

If you follow me on that so far you now have two Battalions worth of units. But you gotta add some flavor to that, and the very first thing I'd go for -

Hive Guard! The glue for Tyranids, a unit of 5 or 6 uses the Single Minded Annihilation stratagem to double shoot every turn, safely from behind Line of Sight blocking terrain or inside a building. Great anti-tank which we otherwise lack, great anti-elite, and while expensive, still great value for points. Best CP sink in the army.


Knowing what I know now, if I was just starting today this would be the recommendations I'd give myself


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/12 22:48:32


Post by: Strat_N8


Mostly agree with Nitro Zeus. I think the only units that I'd put as "useless" are the Hive Crone (Harpy does what it wants to do better), individually purchased Spore Mine clusters (expensive, slow, can be gotten for free from weapons), Mucolid Spores (similar reasoning as spore mines, unless you need to fill a brigade cheaply), and the Dimachaeon (some of its rules don't work and the codex melee beasts are significantly cheaper while also being more durable). Just about everything else has at least something it can lend to a list even if it isn't the most optimal pick. Even the Pyrovore is fairly usable now, which is impressive given its track record.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/13 20:35:50


Post by: Thenord


Thanks a lot guys. This was just what I was looking for!
Another question.. Carnifex- what's the best variant if you want something al round?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/13 23:36:06


Post by: Strat_N8


Thenord wrote:
Thanks a lot guys. This was just what I was looking for!
Another question.. Carnifex- what's the best variant if you want something al round?


For an all rounder the stock build-your-own Carnifex is probably the best. The other variants are all specialized to one degree or another.

Screamer Killer -> Anti-Heavy Infantry with D6 plasma shots and twin-talons. Also has a small moral penalty for nearby enemies but it isn't a huge factor against most forces.

Stonecrusher -> Anti-Vehicle specialist with various rules that trigger while targeting vehicles and it has high strength. Trade off is that it has less attacks than the other variants (can be mitigated somewhat with the Wrecking Ball biomorph) and it doesn't get +1 to hit rolls with its Living Battering Ram.

Thornback -> Anti-infantry as either a dedicated shooting platform or as a hybrid. Gets extra mortal wounds when ramming infantry and ignores cover with its ranged attacks.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/18 15:36:21


Post by: Ratius


Been having some serious success with 6 shockguard of late (paired with another 6 impguard).
The shockguard I've found are absolutely devastating VS vehicles. Granted they have short range but you can slap catalyst on them which effectively extends it to a possible 35".
Notable kills were double tapping them to take out a battlewagon and dakkajet, two DDAs in another game and a boatload of mortal wounds (albeit lucky) on an IK.
Me likely.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/18 15:52:13


Post by: Stevefamine


 Ratius wrote:
Been having some serious success with 6 shockguard of late (paired with another 6 impguard).
The shockguard I've found are absolutely devastating VS vehicles. Granted they have short range but you can slap catalyst on them which effectively extends it to a possible 35".
Notable kills were double tapping them to take out a battlewagon and dakkajet, two DDAs in another game and a boatload of mortal wounds (albeit lucky) on an IK.
Me likely.


I've been running mine as shockguard recently and the 24" doesnt bother me much

Bumping the unit up to 6 feels like its a bit over the top but at the same time I tend to lose 2 models in the first turn or so


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/18 17:38:36


Post by: Ratius


I like taking the full 6 as if you absolutely need to kill a heavy vehicle playing SMA almost always ensures it
Also you can still split fire if needed.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/21 07:06:11


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 Strat_N8 wrote:
Thenord wrote:
Thanks a lot guys. This was just what I was looking for!
Another question.. Carnifex- what's the best variant if you want something al round?


For an all rounder the stock build-your-own Carnifex is probably the best. The other variants are all specialized to one degree or another.


The Dakkafex-variant with devourers and Bio-acid morph is quite a good all-rounder. Shoots a ton and works in combat as well.
Some stock talon-fexes are nice as well but keep those cheap. More is better.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/25 14:57:15


Post by: Dynas


Aparetnly we are getting some new stuff. Sorta...
Battleforce and new Termagaunts and Hive Tyrant boxes. Says repackaged so I dont know if that means new sculpts or what. But I wish they would have not done the Tyrant and done a Biovore/Pyrovore kit.

Full disclosure, I have no way to validate the credibility of this source.

Source:
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2019/10/major-list-of-40k-leaks-and-more.html


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/25 16:15:21


Post by: Stevefamine


 Dynas wrote:
Aparetnly we are getting some new stuff. Sorta...
Battleforce and new Termagaunts and Hive Tyrant boxes. Says repackaged so I dont know if that means new sculpts or what. But I wish they would have not done the Tyrant and done a Biovore/Pyrovore kit.

Full disclosure, I have no way to validate the credibility of this source.

Source:
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2019/10/major-list-of-40k-leaks-and-more.html


I've been ebay hunting the cheaper metal Biovores for awhile - yeah they really need to add a 3 pack kit for these.

I hope the gaunt box is a better / cheaper variant. Tyranids are an expensive army to play for new kids


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/25 19:04:33


Post by: nintura


So supposedly the tyrant is $60. Gaunts are $35. The Baal release is $40. Which means likely its not a boxed set with new models.... i feel like nids are being screwed over again


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/26 11:12:54


Post by: Ratius


Wouldnt be overly concerned with no new models as I think the Nids still have a very good range.

But they really need some rules changes and upgrades here and there considering the current game state.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/26 14:26:56


Post by: lindsay40k


Only thing nids need, model-wise, is sturdier hormagaunts and the final transition to full plastic

I’ve ended up building biovores out of gaunts and barbed stranglers

So shockguard are still decent, then? That’s good, I’ve wishlisted a Hydra detachment with both types. Aim is to have them be dangerous enough that they have to be shot up, then have them recycle & outflank. Somewhat gimmicky, but they have the range for it, and I don’t go in for more than semi-competitive.

I guess if I wanted to make use of the hydra strat, Genestealers are the best candidates? Hormagaunts already get a third of the benefit built in…


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/26 16:10:41


Post by: nintura


But why? Why not just buy the extra unit and have access to them all throughout the game instead of waiting for an enemy to kill them.

Id like to see new bugs and some of the older ones like Horms brought up to useable levels. I ran a pack of 25 into a triple charge last night. Played against Ultramarine Primaris. 10 went into one of the bigger bikes, 10 into a chaplain, and 5 into an (intercessor?) squad. I killed the bike, which already had 2 wounds on it, did one wound to the infantry and one to the chaplain..... and this was with an extra attack thanks to the mission twist that adds 1 for melee. That's 75 attacks with re-rolls to hit and wound rolls of 1.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/26 21:57:53


Post by: Strat_N8


 Dynas wrote:
Aparetnly we are getting some new stuff. Sorta...
Battleforce and new Termagaunts and Hive Tyrant boxes. Says repackaged so I dont know if that means new sculpts or what. But I wish they would have not done the Tyrant and done a Biovore/Pyrovore kit.


Repackage just means that they are putting them in boxes with the new standardized slate grey background rather than the older faction-specific ones (mists and biostructures in the background for Tyranids). If we are lucky perhaps they will repack the Termagants with 4 sprues so one can have 20 per box instead of 12. Would make it easier to quickly amass a swarm and they did something similar with Carnifexes coming 2 to a box instead of solos. It would also be nice if they added another weapon sprue to the Hive Tyrant box with the options the kit is currently missing (Brainleech Devourers, Slimer Maggot Deathspitters, Duel Monstrous Boneswords, Monstrous Rending Claws - if they are feeling extra nice perhaps include options for the Monstrous Rending Claws as an option for the legs on the Flying variant).


Regarding the psychic awakening part of the rumor, I wonder if Tyranids are going to get a sequential army rule like the Marine doctrines added on? Tyranids have a very strict cycle to their invasions, so maybe they could have the option of picking a "phase" of the consumption cycle to represent with bonuses dependent on the phase. First phase would probably be directed at gaunts and 'stealers/lictors (maybe flying monsters), second phase mid-sized bugs, and third phase monsters/feeder beasts. Would be a neat way to help certain list archetypes without tinkering with the dataslates.



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/27 05:33:48


Post by: Spoletta


No other faction is going to get the level of goodness that marines received, so i wouldn't hold any hopes in that regard.

What we are going to have is a "Make your own trait" like the ones eldar got.

I would be highly delighted in a rule that encourages you to not mix hive fleets, which is something that i see as an abomination, but i would set myself for disappointment.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/27 09:57:07


Post by: Nitro Zeus


Spoletta wrote:
No other faction is going to get the level of goodness that marines received, so i wouldn't hold any hopes in that regard.

What we are going to have is a "Make your own trait" like the ones eldar got.

I would be highly delighted in a rule that encourages you to not mix hive fleets, which is something that i see as an abomination, but i would set myself for disappointment.

If the incentive was at all relevant enough to consider going mono-fleet for, the entire dex would have to be reworked alongside it unless you wanted to do anything other than turn the dex into Codex: Kraken competitively. It's such a fundamental and crucial part of Tyranids competitively, and even a lot of people are putting shooting units into Kraken detachments like Hive Guard and Dakkafex even when Kronos is easily available, just to get them in position more consistently. Our Hive Fleets aren't balanced like the Space Marine chapters are. All that encouraging single hive fleet play in the current state of the dex would achieve is lowering hive fleet diversity to pure Kraken for basically every single list except in the rarest cirumstances / offmeta builds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
not that im against the idea, it would be good, i just think such an idea has to come with the true individualisation of Hive Fleets like the Chapters got, to make it a positive change and each hive desirable in its own right


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/27 11:47:19


Post by: nintura


You know their answer is going to be nerfing kraken.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/28 10:25:32


Post by: blood reaper


What's a good start to an actually good/competitive Tyranid army? Just several boxes of Gaunts?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/28 11:24:21


Post by: KurtAngle2


 blood reaper wrote:
What's a good start to an actually good/competitive Tyranid army? Just several boxes of Gaunts?


Nothing as of now, we're one of the worst armies out there to play competitively (things *MIGHT* change in December but I'm betting on the supplement not fixing anything since our problems are far more needing an entire codex reworked than mere additional rules)


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/28 11:57:58


Post by: Spoletta


Define good/competitive.

If it is good for playing against average lists without aiming to win tournaments, then almost anything in the nids arsenal is fine. We are full of choices there.

If you want something for relevant tournaments, then second question. ITC or standard 40K?

In ITC, just forget it, the current top competitive meta is unfriendly to nids.

In standard 40K you can still compete, but it's going to be a hard path.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/28 14:09:40


Post by: nintura


What they said. I played a 1k game Hydra vs Primaris Ultramarines. I ran 92 models with the extra attack in close combat twist so it was made for my army. I barely won by the skin of my teeth ONLY because we were not playing matched and I could use the Hydra strategem without having to buy the units ahead of time. His 18 models nearly killed 80+.

I got a triple charge off against a Prim Chaplain, a wounded attack bike, and 5 primaris marines. I did a total of 4 wounds with 75 attacks and re-rolls to hits.

We are just severely underpowered. His list was made to take on armor/elite armies. His only anti horde was 3 of the primaris flyers with assault 6 guns and they only shot once with them before my genestealers got stuck in.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/28 21:36:37


Post by: blood reaper


KurtAngle2 wrote:
 blood reaper wrote:
What's a good start to an actually good/competitive Tyranid army? Just several boxes of Gaunts?


Nothing as of now, we're one of the worst armies out there to play competitively (things *MIGHT* change in December but I'm betting on the supplement not fixing anything since our problems are far more needing an entire codex reworked than mere additional rules)


Well that is deeply unfortunate.

When I say 'good' I mean able to go toe-to-toe with the slew of top-tier armies (not necessarily top-tier lists) such as Tau and Imperial Guard.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/28 21:39:24


Post by: tneva82


 nintura wrote:
I got a triple charge off against a Prim Chaplain, a wounded attack bike, and 5 primaris marines. I did a total of 4 wounds with 75 attacks and re-rolls to hits.
.


Rolling bad doesn't help. Nearly half what you should have averaged. Though still splitting into 3 isn't good idea anyway unless it's to tripoint so you don't get shot.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/28 21:40:23


Post by: nintura


tneva82 wrote:
 nintura wrote:
I got a triple charge off against a Prim Chaplain, a wounded attack bike, and 5 primaris marines. I did a total of 4 wounds with 75 attacks and re-rolls to hits.
.


Rolling bad doesn't help. Nearly half what you should have averaged. Though still splitting into 3 isn't good idea anyway unless it's to tripoint so you don't get shot.


wouldn't matter because ultras can fall back and still shoot anyway, and at full bs. and add -1 ap. etc etc etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What is everyones thoughts on the Uber-Lictor from FW? it seems to be a decent primaris killer if it can get the charge and why wouldn't it?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/29 00:07:32


Post by: C4790M


The Dimacheron? It’s hecking awful. It’s got no rules that help it go fast except a worse fly, no native invuln so it’ll get shot to heck before it makes combat and doesn’t even do that much once it gets there. All for the low cost of 200 points. bargain


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/29 00:33:09


Post by: nintura


What are some of your favorite units for fun? I find this guy hilariously effective:

Tyranid Prime - 79 pnts
Ymgarl Factor
Boneswords
Spine Fists
Flesh Hooks
Toxin Sacs
Adrenal Glands
Endless Regenerations - OR - Instinctive Killer

Basically you get him stuck in, but the turn he gets to charge he gets:

4 pistol shots at S:3
2 flesh hook shots at S:5
5 Bone Sword attacks at S:5 which can double in damage from Toxin Sacs and you get to roll for Ymgarl beforehand. And even if they stay alive, you get to do that every turn on your turn.

And if you happen to have Warriors/Shrikes nearby, he adds bonuses to them before they charge in as well.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/29 17:08:54


Post by: Emicrania


 nintura wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 nintura wrote:
I got a triple charge off against a Prim Chaplain, a wounded attack bike, and 5 primaris marines. I did a total of 4 wounds with 75 attacks and re-rolls to hits.
.


Rolling bad doesn't help. Nearly half what you should have averaged. Though still splitting into 3 isn't good idea anyway unless it's to tripoint so you don't get shot.


wouldn't matter because ultras can fall back and still shoot anyway, and at full bs. and add -1 ap. etc etc etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What is everyones thoughts on the Uber-Lictor from FW? it seems to be a decent primaris killer if it can get the charge and why wouldn't it?


Tripoints means the unit cannot fall back because you have three models basing one


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/29 18:51:55


Post by: Arson Fire


 nintura wrote:
What are some of your favorite units for fun? I find this guy hilariously effective:

Tyranid Prime - 79 pnts
Ymgarl Factor
Boneswords
Spine Fists
Flesh Hooks
Toxin Sacs
Adrenal Glands
Endless Regenerations - OR - Instinctive Killer

Basically you get him stuck in, but the turn he gets to charge he gets:

4 pistol shots at S:3
2 flesh hook shots at S:5
5 Bone Sword attacks at S:5 which can double in damage from Toxin Sacs and you get to roll for Ymgarl beforehand. And even if they stay alive, you get to do that every turn on your turn.

And if you happen to have Warriors/Shrikes nearby, he adds bonuses to them before they charge in as well.

You can't fire both the spinefists and the flesh hooks in the same turn. You can either fire your pistols, or your other guns, but not both. It's the same rule that stops space marines from firing both their bolters and bolt pistols at the same time.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/29 19:19:36


Post by: nintura


Arson Fire wrote:
 nintura wrote:
What are some of your favorite units for fun? I find this guy hilariously effective:

Tyranid Prime - 79 pnts
Ymgarl Factor
Boneswords
Spine Fists
Flesh Hooks
Toxin Sacs
Adrenal Glands
Endless Regenerations - OR - Instinctive Killer

Basically you get him stuck in, but the turn he gets to charge he gets:

4 pistol shots at S:3
2 flesh hook shots at S:5
5 Bone Sword attacks at S:5 which can double in damage from Toxin Sacs and you get to roll for Ymgarl beforehand. And even if they stay alive, you get to do that every turn on your turn.

And if you happen to have Warriors/Shrikes nearby, he adds bonuses to them before they charge in as well.

You can't fire both the spinefists and the flesh hooks in the same turn. You can either fire your pistols, or your other guns, but not both. It's the same rule that stops space marines from firing both their bolters and bolt pistols at the same time.


Well thats what i get for never playing gun armies....


To keep another player from complaining, im thinking about dropping some models from my hydra 1k list and adding something. Couple carni sound good? Gives my army some ability to shoot and a couple bouncers to deal with armor/multi wound primaris? Would take me from 92 models to 65 though


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/29 19:52:06


Post by: Arson Fire


 nintura wrote:

To keep another player from complaining, im thinking about dropping some models from my hydra 1k list and adding something. Couple carni sound good? Gives my army some ability to shoot and a couple bouncers to deal with armor/multi wound primaris? Would take me from 92 models to 65 though

I've got to say it's hard to justify putting monsters into a Hydra list. It's the one hive fleet that does nothing for them. Hydra is heavily skewed towards pure swarms.
If you put the carnifexes in, your model count is low enough that I would recommend changing your list to use a different hive fleet. If there are only a couple of units in your list that are getting any benefit from the hive fleet, then it's not the right list for that fleet.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/29 20:15:13


Post by: nintura


Arson Fire wrote:
 nintura wrote:

To keep another player from complaining, im thinking about dropping some models from my hydra 1k list and adding something. Couple carni sound good? Gives my army some ability to shoot and a couple bouncers to deal with armor/multi wound primaris? Would take me from 92 models to 65 though

I've got to say it's hard to justify putting monsters into a Hydra list. It's the one hive fleet that does nothing for them. Hydra is heavily skewed towards pure swarms.
If you put the carnifexes in, your model count is low enough that I would recommend changing your list to use a different hive fleet. If there are only a couple of units in your list that are getting any benefit from the hive fleet, then it's not the right list for that fleet.


I agree but I love fluffy nid lists and Ive already painted my fleet as Hydra. The list has 20 gants, 30 gaunts, 10 stealers in 1k. But someone called me out for playing cheese against their ultramarine primaris list. Plus hordes dont do enough to kill primaris or armor. 75 rerolled attacks by a 25 man strong horm squad and I ended up only doing 4 unsaved wounds to primaris marines.... i need some support


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/29 20:34:30


Post by: Arson Fire


That's not cheese even the slightest bit. Your opponent was talking gak.

It's true that tyranid hordes do not kill things though. Outside of genestealers at least.
Tyranid hordes are more geared towards speedily advancing towards, surrounding, and locking down enemy units. Tarpitting them for the whole game while you win on objectives.

If you're dead set on sticking with Hydra, then give it a shot. The carnifexes won't be as good as they would be with another fleet, but they're still alright.

Another option is instead of two carnifexes, add Old One Eye. He's a 9 wound character, so can hide behind your swarms. Giving you a big punchy combat monster, that still denies your enemies anti-tank guns a target.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/29 20:36:22


Post by: nintura


Arson Fire wrote:
That's not cheese even the slightest bit. Your opponent was talking gak.

It's true that tyranid hordes do not kill things though. Outside of genestealers at least.
Tyranid hordes are more geared towards speedily advancing towards, surrounding, and locking down enemy units. Tarpitting them for the whole game while you win on objectives.

If you're dead set on sticking with Hydra, then give it a shot. The carnifexes won't be as good as they would be with another fleet, but they're still alright.

Another option is instead of two carnifexes, add Old One Eye. He's a 9 wound character, so can hide behind your swarms. Giving you a big punchy combat monster, that still denies your enemies anti-tank guns a target.


I could do:

2x neurothrope
15x genestealer
20x hormagaunts
2x20 termagants with 10 devs
1x trygon prime
1x carnifex with enh senses, bone tail, crushing claws, heavy ven cannon, spore cysts

This gives me speed, pressure by weight of options and 79 models for 997 points. Maybe throw in adrenal glands on the fex or trygon


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Arson Fire wrote:
That's not cheese even the slightest bit. Your opponent was talking gak.

It's true that tyranid hordes do not kill things though. Outside of genestealers at least.
Tyranid hordes are more geared towards speedily advancing towards, surrounding, and locking down enemy units. Tarpitting them for the whole game while you win on objectives.

If you're dead set on sticking with Hydra, then give it a shot. The carnifexes won't be as good as they would be with another fleet, but they're still alright.

Another option is instead of two carnifexes, add Old One Eye. He's a 9 wound character, so can hide behind your swarms. Giving you a big punchy combat monster, that still denies your enemies anti-tank guns a target.


So you're saying the best way to use Horms is as a speedy tarpit that can Pile in 6" so they surround an enemy unit, preventing them from falling back? That makes quite a bit of sense actually.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/30 02:04:36


Post by: Arson Fire


 nintura wrote:

So you're saying the best way to use Horms is as a speedy tarpit that can Pile in 6" so they surround an enemy unit, preventing them from falling back? That makes quite a bit of sense actually.

Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Hormagaunts are a fast tarpit unit, that use their 6" pile-in + consolidate moves to surround enemy models, and drag in additional units.
No matter what buffs you give them, hormagaunts will never be an efficient unit for winning in close combat. That is simply not their job. Leave that to the genestealers.

If I can get my hormagaunts into the opponents tanks, I will happily surround them, taking both my hormagaunts and those tanks out of the fight. Potentially for the rest of the game if my opponent has nothing in position to fight the gaunts and rescue the tanks.
If I can surround a single shooty guy, like a hellblaster. Then his unit is no longer able to fall back, even if the rest of them are not surrounded. So his whole unit is going to be stuck until the hormagaunts are dealt with, or the trapped model dies (there are a number of tricks you can use to minimise or eliminate your opponents ability to do that).

This sort of stuff is a lot easier to do with Kraken, as the ability to fall back from combat then charge back in opens up a lot of options. It makes it more difficult for your opponent to intercept you, by doing something like driving a rhino into your gaunts to prevent them from charging his important units.
But it still applies with any hive fleet.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/30 02:21:51


Post by: nintura


Well here's hoping that Hydra gets some love Another list I like the looks of:

Neuro
Warrior Prime w/ Bone Swords, Deathspitter, Adrenal, Ymgarl, Toxin and whatever warlord trait you want
10 Genestealers
30 Horms
2x20 Terms with 10 Devs each
5 Warriors with Boneswords, Adrenal, and Deathspitters, 1 with Venom Cannon
Trygon Prime

88 models, almost all of them gain the Hive Fleet bonus.

The warriors benefit immensely from the prime, knocking them down to BS 3+ or hitting on 2+ in melee, and allowing them to Advance and fire with no penalty. Adrenal on all 6 models allow them a small increased chance to make combat. The 30 Horms can easily be moved into position to block off retreat and the Neuro can give them Catalyst so they stay there.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/31 10:22:39


Post by: Tyranid Horde


Is the Christmas battleforce worth it in terms of competitive units?

I'm potentially getting back into Tyranids and was wondering if that box is a good jumping off point.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/31 13:23:09


Post by: nintura


I play Hydra so ill be needing it. Competitive wise it has termagants, carnifexes, hive tyrant, and genestealers. All staples


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/31 15:22:23


Post by: Tyranid Horde


Do Hive Tyrants need to have wings to be good or is foot slogging a valid option? I have an old metal Tyrant and he is on foot.

What are generally the guidelines for a competitive Tyranid list these days?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/10/31 16:01:16


Post by: tneva82


 nintura wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 nintura wrote:
I got a triple charge off against a Prim Chaplain, a wounded attack bike, and 5 primaris marines. I did a total of 4 wounds with 75 attacks and re-rolls to hits.
.


Rolling bad doesn't help. Nearly half what you should have averaged. Though still splitting into 3 isn't good idea anyway unless it's to tripoint so you don't get shot.


wouldn't matter because ultras can fall back and still shoot anyway, and at full bs. and add -1 ap. etc etc etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What is everyones thoughts on the Uber-Lictor from FW? it seems to be a decent primaris killer if it can get the charge and why wouldn't it?


Not if you tripoint. Aka surround one model so that it can't move through your bases. Do that and unit can't fall back. Takes 3 models. Apart from that don't split unit as even 5 primaris has 10 wounds that means 30 saves to be forced. That's tall order for lots of unit. Even full ork unit does just 40 and getting 30 orks to 5 primaris is hard. Can't afford to split too much. Tesla immortal shooting? Fully buffed 30 hits, 20 wounds.

And incidentally hormagaunts are pretty darn good for tripointing. Cheap and very fast


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/11/05 15:36:11


Post by: Wayniac


I was considering revisiting my nids that I never got around to finishing, only to see that they are one of the worst competitive armies currently. This is sad, but I do love the fact they are like one of the most flexible armies out there since you really can do almost anything with any playstyle. Which is the #1 thing that attracted me to them; the level of variety that you got.

I guess the one good thing is if they are bad in comp play anyways that means I don't need to spam Genestealers if I don't want to, and I can focus on mostly Nidzilla with a few swarms of Termas/Hormas. Never did care for Genestealers that much.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/11/07 02:48:17


Post by: Strat_N8


nintura wrote:
To keep another player from complaining, im thinking about dropping some models from my hydra 1k list and adding something. Couple carni sound good? Gives my army some ability to shoot and a couple bouncers to deal with armor/multi wound primaris? Would take me from 92 models to 65 though


Perhaps consider some Tyrant Guard broods? With Hydra the Crushing Claw variant can actually hit reasonably hard against vehicles (brood of 3-6 vs single model) and they play well with the other multi-wound infantry.


Wayniac wrote:I was considering revisiting my nids that I never got around to finishing, only to see that they are one of the worst competitive armies currently.


I dunno. I've seen some tournament placements from Tyranids + GSC (Tyrands are the anvil, GSC the hammer). I do think that the traditional Kraken Swarmy-Stealer lists and Jormungandr lists aren't so optimal any more, but I'm not sure if every avenue has been explored yet.

For instance, part of me is curious to see if an invul spam list would work at all. We can technically build lists where everything has an invulnerable save to tailor for the current high AP environment, just a matter of figuring out how to balance out the individual components so that there are enough bodies and damage output to make the list work.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/11/07 03:19:03


Post by: Nitro Zeus


I think Erik Lathouras horde Nids are probably the most competitive right now, though it uses a small detachment of GSC it’s 80% Nids. I think it could work without them but there’s no real reason to turn down a cheap battalion for the easy Cp, powers, utility, and bite that just a few units can bring.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/11/07 10:14:29


Post by: Tyranid Horde


 Nitro Zeus wrote:
I think Erik Lathouras horde Nids are probably the most competitive right now, though it uses a small detachment of GSC it’s 80% Nids. I think it could work without them but there’s no real reason to turn down a cheap battalion for the easy Cp, powers, utility, and bite that just a few units can bring.


Do you have a link to the list? I'd be keen on trying it out.


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/11/08 03:19:29


Post by: Keramory


Trying to help my fiancee' out with her nid army. She has an impressive amount of nids, about 3.5k plus another 2k in GSC. However she doesnt have 60+ of say guants or genestealers. Max 40ish guants and 32 genestealers. Also 4 carnifexes, swarmlord, 2 flyrants, exo and nearly 1-2 of every other unit.

The 6 Hive Guard are she has are auto include, but what would be one of the better ways to build a 1.5k list or 2k?


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/11/09 01:06:10


Post by: Dendarien


 Tyranid Horde wrote:
 Nitro Zeus wrote:
I think Erik Lathouras horde Nids are probably the most competitive right now, though it uses a small detachment of GSC it’s 80% Nids. I think it could work without them but there’s no real reason to turn down a cheap battalion for the easy Cp, powers, utility, and bite that just a few units can bring.


Do you have a link to the list? I'd be keen on trying it out.


His ETC list:

Spoiler:
HQ: Broodlord (115) Monstrous Rending Claws (0) [8PL, 115pts]
- Psychic Powers: Smite, The Horror
HQ: Old One Eye (200) Monstrous Crushing Claws (0), Monstrous Scything Talons (0),
Thresher Scythe (0)
[10PL, 200pts]
Troops: 27x Termagants (4) 27x Fleshborers (0) [9PL, 108pts]
Troops: 27x Termagants (4) 27x Fleshborers (0) [9PL, 108pts]
Troops: 27x Termagants (4) 27x Fleshborers (0) [9PL, 108pts]
Troops: 27x Termagants (4) 27x Fleshborers (0) [9PL, 108pts]
Elites: 4x Venomthrope (30) 4x toxic lashes (0) [9PL, 120pts]
Heavy Support: 2x Biovores (50) 2x sporemine launcher (0) [4PL,100pts]

== Detachment 2: < Tyranids, Leviathan > Battalion Detachment == +5 cp, 500pts
HQ: Neurothrope (90) claws and teeth (0) [4PL 90pts] Psychic Powers: Smite, Psychic
Scream HQ: Neurothrope (90) claws and teeth (0) [4PL 90pts] Psychic Powers: Smite,
Onslaught
Troops: 27x Termagants (4) 27x Fleshborers (0) [9PL, 108pts]
Troops: 27x Termagants (4) 27x Fleshborers (0) [9PL, 108pts]
Troops: 26x Termagants (4) 26x Fleshborers (0) [9PL, 104pts]

== Detachment 3: < Genestealer Cults, Mixed Detachment> Vanguard Detachment ==
+1cp, 425 pts
Patriarch (125) Monstrous Rending Claws (0) 1x Familiar (12) [8PL, 137pts] - Bladed Cog
- Psychic Powers: Smite, Mass Hypnosis, Mental Onslaught
[WARLORD: Single-minded Obsession]
Troops: 16 Acolyte Hybrid: 15 Acolyte Hybrids (105) w/15x Hand Flamer (15), Acolyte
Leader (7) w/Hand Flamer (1), Cultist Knife (0), 16 Rending Claws (0) [11PL, 128pts] -
Bladed Cog
Elite: Kelermorph (60) 3x Liberator Autostub (0), Cultist Knife (0) [3PL 60pts] - Four-armed
Emperor
Elite: Locus (40) Hypermorph Tail (0), Locus Blades (0) [2PL 40pts] - Bladed Cog
ELite: Sanctus (55) Familiar Claws (0), Silencer Sniper Rifle (5) (3PL 60pts) - Four-armed
Emperor


You can find part 1 of the podcast episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0NcOFYfgaE


Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/11/09 11:03:15


Post by: IronVaught


Which do you guys think is the better purchase to support a kraken stealer list with OOE and hiveguard.

2x 4 Zoanthropes

Or

4 Melee Carnifex



Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured @ 2019/11/15 23:27:06


Post by: Strat_N8


IronVaught wrote:
Which do you guys think is the better purchase to support a kraken stealer list with OOE and hiveguard.

2x 4 Zoanthropes

Or

4 Melee Carnifex



I'd probably go with the Carnifexes. They give you a bit of added value from Old One Eye's aura and they really like Kraken's trait. Added speed is always helpful, but the second part also allows them to keep Living Battering Ram going every turn for added mortal wounds.