It looks like an Epic40k Ork Scorcha, that's what looks off about it. lol.

Maybe too cartoony? Like a Hanna-Barbera villain's vehicle

Toying with a new list idea.... the basis being to deny certain armies (cough cough eldar) their s6 spam.
1850
Fortification:
Firestorm redoubt with:
6x baricades
BS3
Void shield (I FORGOT ABOUT THESE!)

HQ
Canonness with melta bombs, power axe and maul, Litany, and Rosarius.
Four priests with melta bombs

Troops
Three squads with:
Plasma pistol
Storm bolter
Flamer
Immolator with extra armor

Fast
Dominions with combi melta, power maul, and four meltas in immolator

Heavy
Avenger with auto cannons
Exorcist with extra armor
Full squad of retributers with combi flamer, four heavy bolters and banner.

Callidus assasin.

Umm. You need a bit of work on this one. If you want to deny S6 spam, putting more AV 11 vehicles on the board doesn't help.

Also, that's a lot of toys on those squads that you could use to buy more squads.

Lastly, the FSR got a lot worse after the Skyfire/Intercept changes in 7th edition and really isn't worth it anymore.

I thought you were going to go for a AV13 spam list with Repressors, that annoys S6 a bit. Although with Eldar, they just move to your side armor.

Battlecannon or punisher maybe? The immolators are probably reserved fyi. The av 13 and up was the intent of the firestorm and exorcist.

Two rounds of heavy bolter rending, I tried the uriah combo but they usually get primaried pretty fast so three rounds seemed optimistic.

Uriah is cheaper and probably better.

Av 13 would be fun let me give that a try....

Can we talk about the new Wulfen for a moment? I don't think they're nearly as big a problem for our army as they are for many others. There's a TL;DR at the bottom if you don't want to read how I came to this conclusion.

I played Orks against the Wulfen for my opponent's first game using them, and my maybe second game using Orks. The Wulfen took out well over half my army in points with just a single squad of 5. Yes, I charged them with units I probably shouldn't have (looking at you, regular Boyz), but even an assault army like Orks didn't stand a chance against those monsters. It was brutal.

The other day I played a very small game with my Sisters against the same player. I brought 3 identical BS squads in MM Immolators, F/HF for each squad, my Canoness with EW/Rosarius riding with one of them, and 10 dominions in a rhino with the standard 4 melta and a Simulacrum. That squad was there because at the last minute we changed points from 500 to 750 and that ate up most of it so we could get the game rolling. The Wolves brought 5 Wulfen with the leader having the two claws, two axes and two hammershields, 5 Thunderwolves with 3 hammershields and no other upgrades, a Wolf Lord on mount with no other upgrades except two dogs for extra wounds.

He got Turn 1, but nothing happened except moving and running - I deployed just out of his maximum possible move-run-charge range from the Wulfen, the same as I always do against the TWC anyway. I moved all of my tanks up and shot, but nothing happened there either due to Stormshield saves. Turn 2 he charged the dogs squad at my rhino and glanced it to death, dominions got out unscathed. The Wulfen charged one of my two non-HQ immolators and utterly destroyed it, I think there were like 5 Explodes results (SO glad it can only explode once). His leader took a wound from the explosion and most of my squad died, HF and one regular Sister still alive to nail the LD check. My Turn 2 I disembarked a second nearby squad and fired 2 HF and 1 regular flamer at the squad altogether and killed off everything but 1 axe with 1 wound. 8 bolter shots finished that off. We did all of this in the proper sequence, of course - 1 HF, Rapid-fire bolter from the small squad, HF then Flamer then 3 Rapid-fires from the big squad. Just wanted to clear that up. The rest of the game doesn't matter except that I won when it ended after Turn 6, the TWC were their usual painful selves but I feel like I managed them well enough by using tanks to cut off charge lanes to my units.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is really, this is just another fast unit for us to shoot at. If it gets to us in assault we're dead - but honestly, barring certain lucky situations, isn't that the case with any assault unit getting to us? They're actually easier to shoot down, I find, than most things I've been taught to fear. TWC, for example, have a 3+ and the same access to shields in case of melta, the same 2W, but they're T5 instead of having FNP. Heavy flamers completely ignore the Wulfen armor save (4+), their only hope is a 5+ FNP and 2 wounds per model, depending on the position of whatever shields they've taken. On top of that, Wulfen are still T4 so bolters can get several more wounds against them than the TWC usually.

All in all, after playing against them with the Orks I was right with all the other non-Wolf players in thinking the unit is just too powerful, but after facing them with my main army I'm not so sure anymore. They're still very potent, and the buffs they give can make the rest of the army even faster, but I think the problem with my Orks game against them was that we were playing Kill Points, I'm still very unfamiliar with the Ork army, and I was charging units at them that didn't need to go after them. I'll still tentatively say that charging the Wulfen can be better than being charged by them, but any unit in combat with those things is going to be completely wiped. All you do by charging them is keep their axes stuck at I1. I'll maintain that Orks need a rework badly, possibly even more than we do (we need models but their rules are truly bad).

TL;DR - Wulfen are powerful, but for Sisters it's just another thing to shoot at before it kills us in assault like any other pure assault unit.

When facing big assault deathstars I've often surprised the opponent by fielding my own mini-star with priests, crusaders and maybe an allied beat-stick character and/or rad grenade Inquinisitor.

With re-rollable 3++ on the Crusaders in assault you can tie theirs up for a long time for often a fraction of the points.

 Shandara wrote:
When facing big assault deathstars I've often surprised the opponent by fielding my own mini-star with priests, crusaders and maybe an allied beat-stick character and/or rad grenade Inquinisitor.

With re-rollable 3++ on the Crusaders in assault you can tie theirs up for a long time for often a fraction of the points.

I have done the same thing in the past with 20 BSS, Uriah and some priests. 3+/5++ rerollable on the whole unit is hilarious.

 sfshilo wrote:
Toying with a new list idea.... the basis being to deny certain armies (cough cough eldar) their s6 spam.
1850
Fortification:
Firestorm redoubt with:
6x baricades
BS3
Void shield (I FORGOT ABOUT THESE!)

HQ
Canonness with melta bombs, power axe and maul, Litany, and Rosarius.
Four priests with melta bombs

Troops
Three squads with:
Plasma pistol
Storm bolter
Flamer
Immolator with extra armor

Fast
Dominions with combi melta, power maul, and four meltas in immolator

Heavy
Avenger with auto cannons
Exorcist with extra armor
Full squad of retributers with combi flamer, four heavy bolters and banner.

Callidus assasin.

I count 135 wasted points. You could get Flamer/HEavy FLamer in an MM immo for the points being put into subpar upgrades. Putting power weapons on sister's sergeants is pointless unless you're blobbing because they'll get challenged out and die before their initiative. Plasma pistols suck. Storm bolters suck. extra armor sucks and the combi-flamer is a waste of 10 points because if the unit ever needs to use it, it's already dead. If you're gonna run priests you need AT LEAST 9 girl squads in rhinos, if not 20 girl foot blobs. putting them on a 5-6 girl immo squad is not gonna net you a benefit enough to justify 30 points.

ERJAK wrote:

I count 135 wasted points. You could get Flamer/HEavy FLamer in an MM immo for the points being put into subpar upgrades. Putting power weapons on sister's sergeants is pointless unless you're blobbing because they'll get challenged out and die before their initiative. Plasma pistols suck. Storm bolters suck. extra armor sucks and the combi-flamer is a waste of 10 points because if the unit ever needs to use it, it's already dead. If you're gonna run priests you need AT LEAST 9 girl squads in rhinos, if not 20 girl foot blobs. putting them on a 5-6 girl immo squad is not gonna net you a benefit enough to justify 30 points.

I have to agree with the above. Core army is solid, but way too many extras that won't serve much purpose.

Ditch the extra armor and plasma pistols on BSS squads
Ditch extra armor on Exorist.
That alone should be enough to field a complete exorcist.

I would lose the power axe on the canonnnes (or the maul, your choice) Two is one too many.

Overall, you have way too few T3 models for an 1850 army. If this is a model problem (i.e. you don't physically have enough), I would suggest proxies or allies to fill in the gap. I would not add extra items just to fill out points.

What is the role of the priests? Where are they going and how do you reasonably expect them to live long enough to use those meltabombs?
I would lose the power maul on the dominions. They scout up and die. The sgt is the first casualty. You want them sticking around using their melta until your opponent finally kills them. You do NOT want them in CC.

Just my initial thoughts.

I just want to chime in and say combi flamers are awesome and I never leave home without them. The rest is solid advice

I like combi-melta's on my sisters superior except for a possible blob squad, shoot it at a viable target at the first opportunity because it will die . Two flamers in the blob squad and a combi to put up a decent wall of death before they rush a mob of 20, priests and Uriah is always fun. Inquisitor with a null rod is always worth the points if you have some to spare and a silent sister counts as culexus assassin in the vicinity does wonders, situational, but fun.

Just the tiniest little snippet of a rumour, via Atia on Bolter and Chainsword

Atia wrote:
We may get a novel series about Vandire in the future

via Laurie Goulding:

Answer to " ... plan to do a ...similar series (than Beast Arises) on Vandire and the Daughters of the Emperor?"

Who says we haven't done all that (planning) already?

Apologies if this is old news and/or in the wrong place but I've just seen this melta conversion kit offered:

http://www.trolls.cz/collections/conversion-corner/products/melta-gun-conversion-bit

Thought it might be of interest.

Oh that's awesome.

HEY ALL!

So Im putting together ... well finishing my 1500 SoB army.

I am doing a Flesh tearers Ally (Its BA with 6 Fast attaks and 1 Troop, so It will be 1 Sanq Priet, 1 Tac Squad in Pod and 6 FA Drop Pods)

I am also doing 3 Units of Dominions and Rets (al l6 in Drop pods) 2 SoB squads and a Can for HQ.

Im looking to put in Knight and some Fliers for future. (I also might do Space Marine Flier Formation and not take a Knight at all).


From what you see, is there anything I should change, add or not thinking of? I will most likely be in small tournaments once a Month, 1250-1500pts.

No FW models (I think Unlimited Formations) and also Sometimes Super Heavies and sometimes not.

Again if you can find anything that would make it better let me know.

PS: My paint scheme... is very different. Im going to Shock factor. When it is done painted I'll post pics.

My 1500 list is:

3 Melta Dominion Squads in Rhinos.
heavy Flamer Retributor Squad in Rhino
2 Exorcists
2 Flamer Battle Sisters in Rhinos
Canoness (Eternal Warrior, Combiflamer)

Most rhinos have HK missiles. Most characters have meltabombs.

Thus far, extremely effective at 1500. all the firepower you'd need to kill the heavy stuff, lot of protection to take cover for a round against psyker and reserve counter attacks. Rhinos allow you to fire out for a round that way and effect the fight while providing less savory targets to the enemy. Simulacrums allow you to execute a second devastating strike.

It has won a tournament already and now that it is starting to get painted, I am less embarrassed to bring it. Hehehe. Not to say it doesn't need work. it does. but it's looking much better. I don't tend to let paint get in the way of my fun though. As much as I'd like to bring a beautiful thing to the table, especially sisters of Battle I just am not that skilled at painting.

anywho, for what it's worth, that's what I'm rocking.

Hello fellow nerds, I am planning on buying a 3rd party Inquisitor but I have three options. I'll post them here and can you guys tell me which you prefer? Please

Number one (reverse half track)


Number two (Hey! Read this book!)


Number three (40K batmobile)


Note: Car is a big part of this purchase

Thanks

Hmmm... vote Car #3 but Inquisitor #1

My vote is "Hey read this book". I feel it fits the aesthetic of SoB a bit more if you want them to blend better.

My inquisitor model is actually "Hey, read this book!" She looks great and blends well with the rest of the army.

Hi. I'm new here and in the process of building up my Sisters force. I've come up with a 1850 2CAD MSU list i think i'm going to aim for in terms of purchases, but i'd be interested in seeing what you guys think of.

(Combined Arms Detachment 1)
HQ
Canoness [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Rosarius]

Troops
2x Battle Sister Squad [4x Battle Sister, Flamer, Heavy Flamer] Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
Sororitas Rhino

Fast Attack
3x Dominion Squad [4x Dominions, 4x Meltagun] Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
Immolator [Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]

Heavy Support
3x Exorcist

(Combined Arms Detachment 2)
HQ
Canoness [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]

Troops
2x Battle Sister Squad [4x Battle Sister, Flamer, Heavy Flamer] Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
Sororitas Rhino

Heavy Support
3x Exorcist

An option would be dropping one exorcist for wargear, combi/relics/etc.

6 Exorcists? Lol. Well I mean, spamming AV 13 is certainly not a bad idea. It can be feast or famine though. Looks solid.

You might wanna sacrifice a tank just to get a little more line breaking from the Seraphim. the Dominion tend to have a job to do and they tend to go away after doing their job so if you can see your way clear ot do it, many games are won or lost on secondaries and having a Linebreaker unit that doesnt necessarily have to engage until later when the enemy is softened and focused on other things isnt a terrible idea.

I wasn't really thinking about it in terms of spamming AV13, but rather leveling out the randomness of the exorcist D6 shots. The theory being that the more exorcists there are the more likely it is to get the average 3.5 shots across 6 of them. or the average 21 shots out of a possible 6-36 range.

I don't think line breaker will be a massive issue. Once all the transports have disgorged their contents that's potentially 4 empty Rhinos on a table where they are the lowest priority target, any one of them being able to make an 18" move to grab Line Breaker or objectives.

My experience with Seraphim has been a little mixed, mostly bad but, if they Deep Strike they get shot to bits on the turn they come in. If they don't die out right and they get charge 4x D3 hand flamer hits is really good in overwatch. But yeah they can be a useful tool in your toolbox. if i was to extend this list up to 2000pts I'd add in a squad or two for DS objective grabbing or suicide DS on something that needs to die or be tied up for a turn.

++Edit++
Another option for extending up to 2000pts would be add a Priest or swap a Canoness for Jacobus and take an Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave with 2 Crusaders and 3 Deathcult Assassins in a rhino.

I'd probably go 4 Dominion squads and 4 exorcists as a starting point for pure Sisters and then upgrade one of the Canoness' to Celestine. Puts it at ~1840 that way. Even in a gun line, you want some kind of bully assault unit to mop up OBSEC units. Celestine can also line break like Jancoran suggested with Seraphim.

PanzerLeader wrote:
I'd probably go 4 Dominion squads and 4 exorcists as a starting point for pure Sisters and then upgrade one of the Canoness' to Celestine. Puts it at ~1840 that way. Even in a gun line, you want some kind of bully assault unit to mop up OBSEC units. Celestine can also line break like Jancoran suggested with Seraphim.

I would agree with this!

Drider wrote:
Hi. I'm new here and in the process of building up my Sisters force. I've come up with a 1850 2CAD MSU list i think i'm going to aim for in terms of purchases, but i'd be interested in seeing what you guys think of.

(Combined Arms Detachment 1)
HQ
Canoness [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Rosarius]

Troops
2x Battle Sister Squad [4x Battle Sister, Flamer, Heavy Flamer] Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
Sororitas Rhino

Fast Attack
3x Dominion Squad [4x Dominions, 4x Meltagun] Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
Immolator [Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]

Heavy Support
3x Exorcist

(Combined Arms Detachment 2)
HQ
Canoness [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]

Troops
2x Battle Sister Squad [4x Battle Sister, Flamer, Heavy Flamer] Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
Sororitas Rhino

Heavy Support
3x Exorcist

An option would be dropping one exorcist for wargear, combi/relics/etc.

VOID SHIELD GENERATOR! This much artillery DEMANDS it. I would also consider running a knight crusader, making IT the warlord and having the second group be an allied detachment instead of double CAD. 4 Exorcists+ the Crusader should be plenty and with the Void Shield, fairly Survivable.

i like the idea of the VSG for turn 1 protection maybe even the Knight, it's worth taking into consideration and having a think about.

Having the second group be an Allied Detachment wouldn't work because an Allied Detachment cannot be of the same faction as the Primary Detachment.

VSGs are overrated. 10 Sisters and 2 Rhinos are survivable enough when well deployed to get you to Turn 2 and reserve rolls.

I, personally, enjoy the Shrine of Immolating Faith (Plasma Obliterator) for my sisters.

I think you're probably right about VSGs. after having a think about it, VSG strikes me as the type of thing that you'd only take if you had a left over points and if you've got that many points left over you'd probably be better off reworking your list.

I'm also not convinced about if Celestine is really worth the points. In the right situation she has the potential to really shine but most of the time i feel that she's mediocre at best. If you run her solo or even with a small squad of seraphim bubble wrap she tends to attract unwanted attention and tends to be high up on the other guy's target priority list. Leading to situations where she's running around the place trying to stay out of trouble long enough to do something useful, or forced into a bad situation where she gets crumped, stands up finding her self in an even worse situation where she doesn't have her bubble wrap and gets cumped again. I think to be truly worth the spend she's got to be in a meaty CC unit, i think the ideal would be something like blob squad death company with jump packs if your playing allies. which in it's self is a lot of points to sink into 1 squad and IC which kinda defeats the purpose of MSU despite how potentially good it could be.

VSG is really good for foot lists that don't have transports. It works as a shared transport for your army. If you already have them, it isn't as cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Drider wrote:
I'm also not convinced about if Celestine is really worth the points. In the right situation she has the potential to really shine but most of the time i feel that she's mediocre at best. If you run her solo or even with a small squad of seraphim bubble wrap she tends to attract unwanted attention and tends to be high up on the other guy's target priority list. Leading to situations where she's running around the place trying to stay out of trouble long enough to do something useful, or forced into a bad situation where she gets crumped, stands up finding her self in an even worse situation where she doesn't have her bubble wrap and gets cumped again. I think to be truly worth the spend she's got to be in a meaty CC unit, i think the ideal would be something like blob squad death company with jump packs if your playing allies. which in it's self is a lot of points to sink into 1 squad and IC which kinda defeats the purpose of MSU despite how potentially good it could be.

You're thinking of it wrong. If Celestine is attracting attention, she's doing her job. Basically any shooting at her is a waste. This is why I will often take her by herself and play LOS shenanigans, etc. They'll spend a lot of effort taking her down and leave everything else alone. Yes, she's good in deathstars, but she's also a super points efficient model by herself that distracts from the rest of your army. Not to mention, if they don't put effort into her, she eats things by herself.

Really fast question.

I have a Drop Pod SoB/BA (Flesh Taerers) Army.

Currently I have 2 Immolators with my Troops and 3 Dominions in Pods.

B.c Dom's have Scout, would it be better to put 2 of them in Immolators and the 2 SoB Troops in Drop pods and having 1 Dominion in drop pod?

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Really fast question.

I have a Drop Pod SoB/BA (Flesh Taerers) Army.

Currently I have 2 Immolators with my Troops and 3 Dominions in Pods.

B.c Dom's have Scout, would it be better to put 2 of them in Immolators and the 2 SoB Troops in Drop pods and having 1 Dominion in drop pod?

I think 1 on the ground and 2 in pods would be good. Dominions in pods are just really good.

Pods are just too good as a guaranteed delivery service. You know they'll get to fire, and likely with Ignores Cover. Doms in an Immolator have to get where they're going first, which is risky with AV11.

Drop Pod vs Repressor is a much more difficult choice for me.

 Zefig wrote:
Pods are just too good as a guaranteed delivery service. You know they'll get to fire, and likely with Ignores Cover. Doms in an Immolator have to get where they're going first, which is risky with AV11.

Drop Pod vs Repressor is a much more difficult choice for me.

Well, Repressors are technically part of our codex. Drop pods require an ally.

I'm not big on allying my Sisters with anything other than Knights and Inquisitors (both because of my Sisters fanboying and I don't want to buy another codex and models for a third army that isn't Thousand Sons).

I am not blind to the advantages of using Drop Pods. Maybe I shouldn't be such a purist, but I do tend to shy away from the Allies Matrix for the most part because it feels too much like cheating to me. That isn't to say I haven't dabbled. But man... I just... It really conflicts me.

I think my instinct on that is much more pronounced with Adepta Sororitas because every time I HAVE done allies with them (and I have done IG because it was fluffy to do in Witch Hunter codex and seemed ok internally) it feels like I'm admitting that they can't win on their own. It FEELS that way, even though I hold more tournament wins WITH Adepta Sororitas than any other codex!

I just really want to go out and rep the sisters well every time so that people will start to say "hey...wow... Those are pretty cool".

I get that response a lot because I have generally stayed pure when playing them. I don't hate anyone who doesn't. but I just really want to win with Pure Sisters as often as I can to prove they are viable. In my hands they have been. I want other people to see how I do it and maybe buy a few things.

Battle Sister with Blessed Banner is now Sold Out on the US, UK, and EU websites. Still available in Australia and NZ. I've heard a couple second-hand rumblings from GW staffers that the Sisters in their current form might not see 2017.

Drider wrote:
i like the idea of the VSG for turn 1 protection maybe even the Knight, it's worth taking into consideration and having a think about.

Having the second group be an Allied Detachment wouldn't work because an Allied Detachment cannot be of the same faction as the Primary Detachment.

That's why you take the knight formation that is just 1 knight, make IT the primary detachment, and the warlord, and have the CAD and the Allies.

ERJAK wrote:

Drider wrote:
i like the idea of the VSG for turn 1 protection maybe even the Knight, it's worth taking into consideration and having a think about.

Having the second group be an Allied Detachment wouldn't work because an Allied Detachment cannot be of the same faction as the Primary Detachment.

That's why you take the knight formation that is just 1 knight, make IT the primary detachment, and the warlord, and have the CAD and the Allies.

The Oathsworn Knight Detachment (the one that lets you take 1-3 Knights)? I'm pretty sure one of its restrictions is that it can't be the Primary Detachment, and thus the Knight can't be your Warlord.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Really fast question.

I have a Drop Pod SoB/BA (Flesh Taerers) Army.

Currently I have 2 Immolators with my Troops and 3 Dominions in Pods.

B.c Dom's have Scout, would it be better to put 2 of them in Immolators and the 2 SoB Troops in Drop pods and having 1 Dominion in drop pod?

Put two dominion squads in Immolators as dedicated transports. That way if you want them to outflank, you can. If not, put them in the pods and you can mount the troops into the immolator on turn 1. Get the best of both worlds.

PanzerLeader wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Really fast question.

I have a Drop Pod SoB/BA (Flesh Taerers) Army.

Currently I have 2 Immolators with my Troops and 3 Dominions in Pods.

B.c Dom's have Scout, would it be better to put 2 of them in Immolators and the 2 SoB Troops in Drop pods and having 1 Dominion in drop pod?

Put two dominion squads in Immolators as dedicated transports. That way if you want them to outflank, you can. If not, put them in the pods and you can mount the troops into the immolator on turn 1. Get the best of both worlds.

This is a good Idea! thanks!

My normal list is 1600 pts if they let knights or FW I take a Knight/Lancer

So for non-knight/FW lists, I will always do that, b.c I have 150-400pts more I can take, tyvm!

I find that Dominions' special deployment as-is often means I don't actually need to use their Act... that said, we don't use much area terrain, so it's basically easy to deny cover just by moving around the intervening obstacles.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I find that Dominions' special deployment as-is often means I don't actually need to use their Act... that said, we don't use much area terrain, so it's basically easy to deny cover just by moving around the intervening obstacles.

I play in an extremely high Competitive area, with DA having Dbl Jink, Eldar Bikes, White scares, Jinking Transports from Necrons, using those "free" Rhinos and getting extra cover anywhere possible. We also play with a good number of terrain (Our terrain is actually really amazing, we have all home made Buildings/ruins that are made to give hard LoS, but you have ot e smart about it, some angles are hard Cover and others are almost no cover, Im actually very spoiled with terrain now LOL).

But the Idea that Having 2 Immolators even if they are empty is a good idea

So I noticed somthing funny about Khan from vanilla space marines. He has a special rule that gives all White Scars units embarked on a rhino or Razorback scout. What the rule does not say is WHO'S rhino they have to be embarked in. I'll have to double check to see if there's anything stopping it from working on ICs, but if not, it makes a funny little interaction with sisters.

So what you do is you take Khan, A chaplain/librarian with Hunters eye, and put them with your 2 troop squads in Rhinos, then you take the WS Command squad on bikes and stick celestine in it, pepper on 3 squads of dominions in immolators and 2 squads of scouts, and your looking at a 1500 point army with 100% scout, 17 ignores cover melta shots, 3 regular melta shots, 12 grav shots(From the command squad) and 4 flamer templates. You can even get your preferred enemy back on disembark if you need it more than the other bonuses.

Khan's warlord trait even lets sisters reroll morale on top of everything!

I played in a tourney in Conway, AR this weekend. I ran my Sisters/Wolves.
My star:
Celestine
Priest
Wolf Lord, runic armor, ss, krakenbone sword.
Iron priest, thunder wolf
TWC Claw, SS
TWC PF, SS
TWC, Bolt Pistol, SS
TWC, Bolt Pistol, SS
Rune Priest

It killed 9 TWC with a mix of Claws, hammers and shields, and 10 Wulfen with SS and Hammers.

I took zero wounds.

In a different game, do you know who kills D-Thirsters? Celestine kills D-Thirsters.Took 2 rounds, but she showed him the emperor's fury.

 deviantduck wrote:
I played in a tourney in Conway, AR this weekend. I ran my Sisters/Wolves.
My star:
Celestine
Priest
Wolf Lord, runic armor, ss, krakenbone sword.
Iron priest, thunder wolf
TWC Claw, SS
TWC PF, SS
TWC, Bolt Pistol, SS
TWC, Bolt Pistol, SS
Rune Priest

It killed 9 TWC with a mix of Claws, hammers and shields, and 10 Wulfen with SS and Hammers.

I took zero wounds.

In a different game, do you know who kills D-Thirsters? Celestine kills D-Thirsters.Took 2 rounds, but she showed him the emperor's fury.

This pleases me

Hello, I've been playing 40k for a while now but am new to this forum. I wanted to ask about a list I was putting together to see what everyone thought about it.

CAD, 1501 pts.

HQ: St. Celestine

Troop: 3 Sister Squads, 5 Sisters with Meltagun and Heavy Flamer, Sister Superior with Melta Bombs, Bolt Pistol and Chainsword, 3 Immolators with Multi-Melta

Fast: 2 Dominions, 4 Meltaguns and Superior with Melta Bombs and Combi-Melta, 2 Repressors
1 Seraphim Squad, 2 Hand Flamers, Seraphim Superior with Melta Bombs

Heavy: 3 Exorcists w Storm Bolter

----

Emperor's Wrath Artillery Formation, 496 pts.

Company Command Squad, Plain Commander, 4 Vets (1 with Vox-caster), Master of Ordinance, Chimera with 2 Heavy Bolters

Wyvern, Wyvern, Manticore, Enginseer

I'm not sure if I want the Seraphim to accompany Celestine or have them go separate.

I'd drop the melta bombs and storm bolters on the exorcists and pump the 60 points into something else. For instance, that's 4 more Seraphim.

Should I drop the Melta bombs on all the units or only the non-Dominion units? I'd rather not drop the storm bolters, I need those to be there in case of weapon destroyed results.

I see the logic in the storm bolters, but from my experience the risk of a weapon destroyed is pretty slim. Odds are the vehicle is wrecked outright most of the time.

As far as the melta bombs go, I can't remember the last time I put them on any unit I've fielded. If my sisters have to assault a vehicle to kill it, i feel like I've already done something wrong. I can't speak for their worth, though, since I simply don't use them. Anyone else find melta bombs worth the points? I guess they come in handy against av13 walkers, but I don't face many of them.

Yeah fighting walkers is out of the question, I meant the bombs to bring down something like let's say a Predator. If a Meltagun is close enough to the target get a double pen roll it's close enough to be charged, and I have managed to miss my shots due to bad rolls before. I can take them away from the troop squads though.

I'd keep melta bombs on the dominion squads. They're helpful when you fail to kill a knight and he ends up charging you.

I like your list. I should since its essentially mine. You'll want to grab Volkov's Cane for your CCS. Its only 10 points. I don't think the storm bolters are a great use of 30 points. You're better off grabbing an inquisitor with 2 servo skulls for those points.

I prefer Rhinos or Repressors for my troop choices but its just a matter of preference.

 deviantduck wrote:
I played in a tourney in Conway, AR this weekend. I ran my Sisters/Wolves.
My star:
Celestine
Priest
Wolf Lord, runic armor, ss, krakenbone sword.
Iron priest, thunder wolf
TWC Claw, SS
TWC PF, SS
TWC, Bolt Pistol, SS
TWC, Bolt Pistol, SS
Rune Priest

It killed 9 TWC with a mix of Claws, hammers and shields, and 10 Wulfen with SS and Hammers.

I took zero wounds.

In a different game, do you know who kills D-Thirsters? Celestine kills D-Thirsters.Took 2 rounds, but she showed him the emperor's fury.

Very nice. I've run sisters and CotGW quite a few times to good success. The only thing I would recommend is Litanies of Faith for the priest. Guaranteeing you rerolls is very nice

ERJAK wrote:So I noticed somthing funny about Khan from vanilla space marines. He has a special rule that gives all White Scars units embarked on a rhino or Razorback scout. What the rule does not say is WHO'S rhino they have to be embarked in. I'll have to double check to see if there's anything stopping it from working on ICs, but if not, it makes a funny little interaction with sisters.

So what you do is you take Khan, A chaplain/librarian with Hunters eye, and put them with your 2 troop squads in Rhinos, then you take the WS Command squad on bikes and stick celestine in it, pepper on 3 squads of dominions in immolators and 2 squads of scouts, and your looking at a 1500 point army with 100% scout, 17 ignores cover melta shots, 3 regular melta shots, 12 grav shots(From the command squad) and 4 flamer templates. You can even get your preferred enemy back on disembark if you need it more than the other bonuses.

Khan's warlord trait even lets sisters reroll morale on top of everything!

Main problem I see is that you can't use an Act of Faith if there's a Space Marine in the squad.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

ERJAK wrote:So I noticed somthing funny about Khan from vanilla space marines. He has a special rule that gives all White Scars units embarked on a rhino or Razorback scout. What the rule does not say is WHO'S rhino they have to be embarked in. I'll have to double check to see if there's anything stopping it from working on ICs, but if not, it makes a funny little interaction with sisters.

So what you do is you take Khan, A chaplain/librarian with Hunters eye, and put them with your 2 troop squads in Rhinos, then you take the WS Command squad on bikes and stick celestine in it, pepper on 3 squads of dominions in immolators and 2 squads of scouts, and your looking at a 1500 point army with 100% scout, 17 ignores cover melta shots, 3 regular melta shots, 12 grav shots(From the command squad) and 4 flamer templates. You can even get your preferred enemy back on disembark if you need it more than the other bonuses.

Khan's warlord trait even lets sisters reroll morale on top of everything!

Main problem I see is that you can't use an Act of Faith if there's a Space Marine in the squad.

That and a White Scars Scarblade Force probably does it better.

Sisters of Battle Dialogus is now showing as Sold Out on the UK website. If there's something you've been meaning to add to your Sisters collection but you've been holding off, you might want to pull the trigger sooner rather than later.

Love my Sister Dialogus I sub her in as a Ministorum Priest. It's one of those models that is so bad, that it ends up being awesome. If a new codex were to come, I really hope she's gets some utterly amazing rules so I can field her and drink the tears of my opponents for getting destroyed by a 'terrible looking model' lol.

Personally a fan of melta bombs here and there, I had a priest with MB in a small BSS go three rounds against a Knight Atrapos before finally killing it (he survived the blast then died to shooting). Totally worth the 5 points.

Got in a practice game with AgentOrange as we gear up for the Ord Fanaticus Club Challenge.

His Space Wolves go up against the Adepta Sororitas. My force and his are both on treads. His force contains an Imperial Knight. Mine does not. His contains a StormWolf. I have no anti-air. This worries me from the outset. He also has ranged anti-tank ability which I recognize as a must kill, as I rely on my transports.

He gains turn one. this also concerns me. Lol.

1
We play the Scouring Mission with Vanguard Deployment. Fairly high line of sight blocking terrain provides fairly good cover and it is night fight. His Imperial Knight feels differently and kills my Rhino and three of my Assassin unit. Alrighty then. On foot it is! I am fortunate in that he kills nothing else as his approach at full speed continues, Space Wolves riding hard towards the enemy as they are wont to do.

I respond and flub against his Predator with both Exorcists. Night Fight appears to have more meaning for him. My other units jet from cover at mach speed to the southwest quadrant, as objctives beckon our names. The Dominion lurk patiently off the board.

2
On his turn, he destroys another Rhino with his Imperial Knight and Pins the Retributor Squad that was inside. His space Wolves come forward some more and begin attempting to fire on my Rhinos in support of their Imperial Knight. Plasma and Meltaguns fire from the safety of his coffins.

it is my turn. Two Dominion Squads appear to the West. My Exorcists blow a Rhino open. My Dominion end that squad. All's quiet on the Western Front. The Battle Conclave of assassins rush westward as well, unfettered by their rhino any longer.

3
The Space Wolves decide to press their advantage and the StormWolf appears jetting up the center of the board and killing a rhino. Out spills the Sisters Repentia and their Priests for the most part unscathed. Both melee units are now exposed near the center of my board, closest to me. The Imperial Knight attempts to kill more tanks and more assassins. This time he meets with less success.

Our response? Another Dominion Squad to the West, full out. One of the original two Dominin squads and its buddies take advantage of another dead Rhino by killing most of its contents, all but one guy The assassins charged a group of Space Wolves as well and ended them in one go. The Canoness stepped out of her Rhino to assist the Assassins with her Combi-Weapon in their grisly work.

4
The Imperial Knight takes exception and charges the Assassins. Two escape, but seem destined to run off the board. The Space Wolves are running out of room and because of where I moved my Rhinos, the Stormwolf couldn't deliver its payload so it flew over and shot up Dominion.The Predator, still alive, fired downtown and killed the Sisters of Battle Rhino it targeted.

At this stage, the Adepta Sororiats thoroughly dominated the Objective points and pressed on, killing the last of the Space Wolf Rhinos with Melta Fire and leaving the unit inside in tatters. The Sisters Repentia charged the Imperial Knight and destroyed it, sending its remains tumbling in a disastrous blast that killed the last Sisters of Battle Rhino but somehow missed the actual Sisters Repentia! Its death took the Canoness with it and the Mistress of Pain. This was barely noticed as Uriah Jacobus whipped them into a fury and impelled them towards the now Stunned Predator.

5
The lone Space Wolf that was running away after charging a Dominion Squad regrouped onto an objective. Remnants of the squad we had shot did the same and took their shots at the Dominions nearby but the objectives were now clearly beyond their grasp to control. The Stormwolf disgorged its payload onto the temporarily fearless Dominion, whose leaders death had inspired them and they could not be broken.

the combat lasted into my round as well, ultimately ending in Space Wolves overrunning them and consolidiating to try and at some point reach a 3 point objective, though contesting it was their only hops with three units controlling it.

So at games end, the score was 10 objectives to 0. the final score was actually 13-3 because of the Fast attack kills and he got First Blood. We called it at this point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

~~~~~~~

Okay. So I had a thought.

I have often pondered the Sororitas Command Squad.

Now currently I am using a Retributor Squad of Heavy Flamers i my army. They are a mighty detrrent. They get out of their Rhino rarely, as they are usually playing defense like a linebacker, seeing what comes through to that second tier past my Dominion. They do work when called upon and it is a utility in the list I value because many times, players will simply refuse to go near them, preferring targets that bite less when attacked.

Now I got to thinking about the other way to get the Heavy Flamers into an army and of course the Sororitas Command Squad is such a way.

Hear me out.

First, what do you give up: The chance to Rend with Heavy Flamers. now that 17% comes up enough to matter. hit 6 people with one, that's a free wound but hit six of them four times, that's four wounds no save required if you can roll against their toughness. the lethality of that is great.

Keep in mind though that the auto-fail, so to speak, of the Rending assumed they wouldn't have already failed it. So when viewed through that lens, whle certainly is better never to have found out, there is truth to the idea that even a Marine with its mighty power armor would have failed 33% of those anyays. So of those four "free" wounds, you really only got three.Three is still something to be fair but keep it in mind.

Now the Sororitas Command Squad can take 3 heavy Flamers. But here's the really neat part: They can carry the Sacred banner of the Order Militant in a Rhino. This gives a 12" bubble of +1 Attacks, and re-rolling Morale, Fear and Pinning Tests and the Dialogus can take a 3+ re-rollable save with Feel No Pain into battle to protect the Canoness should things get heated.

Now the main value here is that in an army ALREADY committed to taking the Heavy Flamers, here is a unit that can take a punch incredibly well and bring the flame. So you gain fortitude in place of the three theoretical kills, and you make your Battle Conclave, Repentia Sisters and for that matter everyone else positively better.

Both optons are similar in cost actually. The Command Squad is 170 points the way i am describing. The Retributors are 159 the way I play them. So we are talking about a marginal difference in cost difference and they are all better in melee to begin with. So betwee their Heavy Flamers plus overwatch, and 3+ re-rollable pell to protect the unit... This unit sounds kinda awesome when kind of compared to the Retrbutors just given the fact that the Sisters Repentia take losses on the way in at times and you cn kind of "replace" those losses inthe assault with the banner. An extra attack when BEING assaulted most definitely does not suck.

Anyways they are so close in price that I was toying with this idea. Been a while since I used this tool but they used to be able to be relentless and bring multimeltas doing it so when they took that away I stopped using them. But this new usage could be an ideal and balanced alternative to
Retributors.

That is a good Idea, it comes down to...

A) Do you want a more versatile/survival unit
B) Dedicated Stronger unit for Shooting

I personal dont like Survival on T3 units, tried it many many times, and it never works, it feels like a waste of points to me.

I also personally like having units dedicated to 1 thing, and then having copies of that unit.

Well the real thing here is that i am getting a unit that is factually more survivable by quite a bit, but one less Heavy Flamer and no possibility of Rending.

So the given in this scenario is that I would take Retributors if i DONT do the Sororitas grouping. And they will oprate the same way pretty much, sitting in a rhino, playing linebacker and waiting for their chance.

the difference is, i will be buffing the Sisters Repentia and the Battle Conclave like crazy and every other unit that gets caught in a fight.

So if you look, I currenly get 4 attacks on the charge with the Sisters Repentia. Last game they charged an Imperial Knight as I mentioned. I understood that I would lose a lot fo the unit doing it, but...the Imperial Knight was all he had anchoring his right flank and with its death, the objectives there were laid bare for my mobility so it had to be done.

With the Banner, that's 5 attacks on the charge, and THREE afterwards. This is a scary number.

The same goes for the Battle Conclave. they murderized a Grey Hunter group before the Imperial Knight sent them running. Against the scariness that are Wolfstars now, 5 attacks on the charge sounds pretty awesome for them too, and 4 on rounds they aren't charging.

So the banner could make a real difference in the battle, be harder to kill, plays the same, and all at the expense of one Heavy Flamer that potentially rends when its not mounted.

hmm....

I mean right? Isn't it kind of tempting?

 Jancoran wrote:
Well the real thing here is that i am getting a unit that is factually more survivable by quite a bit, but one less Heavy Flamer and no possibility of Rending.

So the given in this scenario is that I would take Retributors if i DONT do the Sororitas grouping. And they will oprate the same way pretty much, sitting in a rhino, playing linebacker and waiting for their chance.

the difference is, i will be buffing the Sisters Repentia and the Battle Conclave like crazy and every other unit that gets caught in a fight.

So if you look, I currenly get 4 attacks on the charge with the Sisters Repentia. Last game they charged an Imperial Knight as I mentioned. I understood that I would lose a lot fo the unit doing it, but...the Imperial Knight was all he had anchoring his right flank and with its death, the objectives there were laid bare for my mobility so it had to be done.

With the Banner, that's 5 attacks on the charge, and THREE afterwards. This is a scary number.

The same goes for the Battle Conclave. they murderized a Grey Hunter group before the Imperial Knight sent them running. Against the scariness that are Wolfstars now, 5 attacks on the charge sounds pretty awesome for them too, and 4 on rounds they aren't charging.

So the banner could make a real difference in the battle, be harder to kill, plays the same, and all at the expense of one Heavy Flamer that potentially rends when its not mounted.

hmm....

I mean right? Isn't it kind of tempting?

It all sounds great on paper, give it a few games and let us know!

I cant really say if its good or not, B.c I play a all Drop Pod SoB army so I wouldnt ever do it, let us know how it goes with that unit.

@Jancoran: I think you're on to something. With the way you've got the army setup, the command squad is much more utilitarian than retributor heavy flamers. I don't think the FNP is necessary personally. Too much S6+ out there.

PanzerLeader wrote:
@Jancoran: I think you're on to something. With the way you've got the army setup, the command squad is much more utilitarian than retributor heavy flamers. I don't think the FNP is necessary personally. Too much S6+ out there.

Sure I see that. What happens typically is I angle my rhinos heavily, to keep the contents spilled out on a "safe" side" so the STR 6 fussilades are coming but none of them expose me to open air trypically. The Rhino hulk is usually still there afterwards and now no one can see me!

i also use my rhinos as a reticle. Incredibly useful that way. Moving flat out after i fire protects me with more hulks. So the FnP will help some. I know its not a perfect solution which is why the Canooness takes the Eternal Warrior thingee and can then pass wounds on to the 3+ dialogus with Feel No Pain when needed./prudent. The Canoness is a 3+, with 4+ invul and then FnP to add to that and Eternal Warrior. Pretty good layering of defenses.

I like to split her off and give her to the Sisters Repentia eventually to maximize them. Re-rolling to hit and to wound and your saves? Hooray! Uriah makes the Sisters Repentia 5+ invuls, the Priest makes them re-rollabkle while the Hatred thing goes off and its just one unholy ball of wax that explodes on the unsuspecting.

I like the idea... I really think i will try it and yes, report back to you all on it. It is intriguing. The morale bonuses are not to be overlooked either as they can matter too. My last game saw my Retributors get pinned and a dominion squad get forced to Snap Fire, plus my Battle Conclave ran away on me. sheesh. Bunch o cowards! Where's the unshakable damn faith gone?

The whole tactic is sound and the setup seems solid, I just personally can't stand letting the girls get into meaningful CQC, celestine being the notable exception. I hate close combat in 40k. It's so fiddly compared to shooting and the whole time it just looks like nothing is happening and sisters aren't very good at it and just bleh. I like shotgun style lists meant to wreck everything with 30" of my dominions at the start of the game.

Well 3+ armor matters in close combat and the Sisters of Battle aren't terrible, just "okay". However they synergize wel wit hthe banner and Uriah. A blob of Sisters is a thing for sure when you have that going for them.

As we have the Battle Conclave and the Sisters Repentia, it hardly seems necessary to count on a blob, but the blob does something neither does: Obsec and live a very long time. 20 Sisters isn' going to die easy, even though it will take heavy casualties if someone commits to them.

In my old old OLD lists I had three units of 17 and withthe new rules you could do that again albeit it isn't NECESSARY like it used to be.ERJAK: My list does both.

Total Roster Cost: 1999

: Combined Arms Detachment (Primary Detachment) (71#, 1999 pts)

6 Retributor Squad(Simulacrum Imperialis + Heavy Flamer x4)
1 Veteran Retributor Superior (Melta Bombs + Combi-Flamer x1)
1 Rhino(Dozer Blade)

1 Exorcist

1 Exorcist

4 Battle Sister Squad (Flamer + Flamer)
1 Sister Superior, (Melta Bombs)
1 Rhino (Hunter-killer Missile)

4 Battle Sister Squad (Flamer + Flamer)
1 Sister Superior, (Melta Bombs)
1 Rhino (Hunter-killer Missile)

7 Repentia Squad
1 Rhino (Hunter-killer Missile)

1 Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave
2 Crusader, 8 Death Cult Assassin
1 Rhino (Hunter-killer Missile)

1 Uriah Jacobus

1 Canoness (Combi-Flamer x1+ Melta Bombs+ Rosarius, 1 Mantle of Ophelia)

1 Ministorum Priest (Melta Bombs, 1 Litanies of Faith)

7 Dominion Squad (Simulacrum Imperialis + Meltagun x4)
1 Veteran Dominion Superior (Melta Bombs + Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino (Laud Hailer)

7 Dominion Squad (Simulacrum Imperialis + Meltagun x4)
1 Veteran Dominion Superior (Melta Bombs + Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino

7 Dominion Squad (Simulacrum Imperialis + Meltagun x4)
1 Veteran Dominion Superior (Melta Bombs + Combi-Meltagun x1)
1 Rhino

The problem with Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclaves is that Codex: Inquisition does them better imo. Mainly because you can take a cheap Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with Rad and Psychotroke Grenades to give a Henchmen Warband a significant boost in close combat. Plus you can also get them a Land Raider if you want.

I mean its neat that Sisters get the same units, but considering how cheap and useful it is to make an Inquisitorial Detachment (the minimum is a single 25pt Inquisitor, or 55pts to kit an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor out with the awesome grenades) it seems a little redundant.

 GoonBandito wrote:
The problem with Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclaves is that Codex: Inquisition does them better imo. Mainly because you can take a cheap Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with Rad and Psychotroke Grenades to give a Henchmen Warband a significant boost in close combat. Plus you can also get them a Land Raider if you want.

I mean its neat that Sisters get the same units, but considering how cheap and useful it is to make an Inquisitorial Detachment (the minimum is a single 25pt Inquisitor, or 55pts to kit an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor out with the awesome grenades) it seems a little redundant.

Well to be more accurate, its "neat" that the Inquisition gets the same units as the Sisters.

I am in not so silent protest over turning the Witch Hunters into two codex's (and really three plus Dataslates actually). A 55 point premium for the Inquisitor isn't nothing. So if their unit "does it" slightly better, it is at a cost. So i think that's fine. If you want to pay the cost, you get the benefit. If you don't want to pay the cost or don't have the room in your list as would be the case for me, you don't have to. So either way you cut it, it's a win.

So.. am I a dumb, dirty, filthy, cheater?

I've been fielding Repressors for.. over 2 years maybe? And I have always been shooting the flamer and then shooting the storm bolter as full BS. Then in a game saturday my opponent told me if I fire both, the storm bolter has to fire snap shots since it's not a heavy tank. As far as I can tell he's right and I've been playing it wrong for years and not a single opponent I've ever had has corrected me.

Do you guys always snap shoot your storm bolters if you fire the flamer in the same turn?

yup. Moving 6 inches means firing only one weapon at full BS. They all fire normally if you don't move.

Only if you move. Same as any other vehicle.

I am dumbfounded. 1, I've never actually used a vehicle with more than 1 weapon except the repressor, and how has no one in well over a hundred games ever called me out on it.

 deviantduck wrote:
I am dumbfounded. 1, I've never actually used a vehicle with more than 1 weapon except the repressor, and how has no one in well over a hundred games ever called me out on it.

It happens.

I mean we are human. We make mistakes Even after this many years of playing , and playing comopetitively at that, I still bone things.

In competitive play you are trying to beat the clock also, so as ironic as it seems, you're more likely to make mistakes like that in tournaments than in casual games where you have time and the luxury to BS about rules stuff.

Shake it off. Let he who is blameless cast the first stone. Key is, now that you know, act upon it or it goes from an oops, my bad to something less favorable.

Fought the new Wulfen Formation.

ITC Mision 3, for your reference.

Vanguard Deployment, him on his starting line and me on mine. I was going first and had all my rhinos ready to go. His Wolfstar, Psykers on Bikes to give him 4+ FnP and his Wulfen both in a pod and in his deployment zone also ready to go. The Mission if you're not familiar with it was to take no Mans Land more or less and Objectives for Maelstrom points; with one in the middle and one in each persons zone. Kill Points was the Primary.

1
Well… He seized. This was very bad. His special ability allowed him to launch himself 12" +3", he ran 6" + 3" and then assaulted (you guessed it… +3"). Needless to say, his wolfstar tore three Rhinos to pieces before I blinked. Up 3-0 on Primary and he hd First Strike. His Drop Pod came in and dropped Wulfen behind me next to my Exorcist. Hammer and Anvil prepped and ready. Clearly this was a shock to the system as I had not seen it done before. I was impressed.

His second Thunder Cavalry unit came at my right flank and prepared to crash it next turn.

To retaliate, my Battle Conclave wiped his Wulfen from behind me, yet in their death throes they apparently get to attack ANYWAYS. Killed seven of the 10 Battle Conclave after they died. Wowa. Impressed again.

My Retributors flash cooked the Wolfstar a little bit.

Rhinos, Sisters of Battle, and Dominion Squads let loose a blistering volly of fairly effectual fire into the flanking ThunderCavalry, striking them down to just one Wolf and his Biker Psyker. Couldn't quite finish the job. In a fit of good sense I left some of the Dominion in one of the Rhinos to move towards the center objective and so that may have cost me the kill but in the long term I thought it wiser at the time. We also sent a unit of Wulfen running temproarily.

Meanwhile My Sisters Repentia crashed into the Wolfstar that had shock and Awed us, with the Canoness and Uriah attached. They did impressive damage, though he mitigated a great deal of it with his Storm Shields. Nonetheless it was a telling blow and the Canoness, martyr that she is, absorbed some of the hurt unto herself to keep the Sisters Repentia in decent shape. One funny moment happened when his guys piled in and attacked. Closest target was m\y Priest to his STR 10 attacks and for some reasons this STR 10 thing didn't register in my mind and I casually took the saves on him and made them all before realizing my error. Should have Look Out Sir'd those! Almost got my Warlord killed but fortune smiled on me in that moment. oofta. Close call. We're allowed one stupid moment per game I suppose.

So at the end of Round one, it was on like Donkey Kong and we were very very close.

2
His singular Wolf on my right flank smashed the whole unit of Dominion while his Biker Psyker Buddy decided to leave him to it and join some Wulfen that STREAKED up the board and tried to charge my Sisters of battle Rhino. The Shield of the Eperor protected it from annihilation, just barely.

His other Wulfen and such sat back in his deployment zone to get maelstrom points while his Wolfstar continued its battle with my Sistrs Repentia. The Battle Leader fought bravely on, smashing into my Canoness (but she survived!) and her retinue. There wasn't much else TO DO.

My Retributor Squad and the Priest in the Battle Conclave unit threw grenades at the Drop Pod and then the Exorcist blew it sky high since the Exorcist really lacked a better target.

I massed the Rhinos midfield and fired a Hunter Killer into the lone Thunder Cavalry to avenge my Dominon and then other Dominion finished what it started. The right flank was clear by the end of Turn two.

The Sisters Repentia finished killing the Battle Leader and his Wolfstar. It was no more. they did take heavy casualties though and lost their Mistress of Pain. They consolidated 6" towards the center. While the Battle Conclave moved to Objective 3 in my zone to claim those points.

The rest of the army that was free to act had moved to the center and fired into the Wulfen who were coming to bang away at the Rhino hull of my Sisters of Battle.

3
The wulfen finished smashing the Sisters of Battle out of their Rhino but there wasn't much else to do as the last unit of Wulfen ot his rear emerged from their cover in the hope of killing them .

So on my turn most of my Rhinos came up and moved flat out to take the center. My Canoness and the Sisters Repentia shot the gap between the wrecked Sisters of Battle Rhino and a big rock formation and began to pound on the Wulfen but they were super tough with Feel No Pain. Most of the turn was movement including moving my Exorcist flat out because it had no targets, sure of the Battle Conclave remnants ability to hold objective 3.

4
The Wulfen fought on and chipped away, killing the Canoness in close combat and because Uriah had detached and joined the Sisters of Battle (before unceremoniously being dumped out of it again thanks to the Wulfen bangin at their hull) there were no re-rolls or anything to save them. so at this point there was one Sister Repentia alive in the unit. this protected the Wulfen from me shooting them but I did manage to move all my stuff up and prepare.
On his turn he tore up the Sister Repentia. that was pretty much his turn

On my turn I disintegrated his Wulfen.

5
Concession. there was no point in continuing. I suppose I could have tried to table him but really no point. I had Maelstrom, Primary and all three Secondaries at this stage and really could not lose so we called it.

Fought the Dark Angels battle Company. Ironically the same mission. Also ironically the beginnging of the game was quite similar.

I scouted my Dominon to my right flank and readied to square off against two of his Dreadnoughts there.

1
He Dropped two pods behind my line of Rhinos, and attempted to assassinate the Exorcist. This didn't surprise me or catch me off guard, and he managed to Stun it. The Shield of Faith bounced his second shot. His army had three rhinos packed with Lascannons, and he fired them downtown, damaging a Rhino but not killing it. The rest of his gunline of free tanks and his Dreadnoughts fired at me as well but overall not too much damage done. Night Fighting and cover went a long way in round 1.

My response was to kill the two Dreadnoughts on the right flank with my Dominion using Tanks to cover me, as well as killing one of the two Drop pods and both Marine units that alighted into my backfield with the Sisters Repentia and Battle Conclave. The resulting explosion and FULL BS Overwatch killed most of my Battle Conclave, ironically much as the dying Wulfen had done last game. The parallells were hard not to draw.

I ended the round with 4 Kill Points and First Strike.

2
I had used terrain and his own tank hulls as cover to the extent possible. He laid into my forces with Grav Weapons, Lascannons, Heavy Bolters and Assault Cannons. As much of my Rhinos had moved up to the center and behind an LOS blocking hill, he crested it with a couple of his tanks including his command tank while the rest concentrated on the Dominion threat. Here again cover helped, but could not save everyone. One of my tanks blew up on the left flank thanks to a lucky Heavy Bolter shot and on the right I lost another Rhino which the Dominion were hiding behind.

I responded by blowing up two more of his rhinos, the two small units inside and the last Drop Pod in my deployment zone. I now had 9 kill points. The Dominion had advanced on the right flank and attempted to kill the remaining two Dreadnoughts but failed. This left one of the Dominion a little exposed.

I was at 9 KP to his 3, and Maelstroms began to score.

3
Because of the increasing wreckage, the hill in the center and my blockade, he had little to do other than shift here and there and move the Dreadnought forward which had been held back from charging in turn 2 by its stunned brethren. The terrain slowed their advance and they failed their charge but lost one dreadnought in the process of trying to Overwatch. Rolled a fricking 3 trying to get through terrain. i felt for him. His command Group and other shots started to take a toll, smashing the Retributors out of their Rhino. One sisters of Battle Rhino became Immobilized with its weapon gone while the other lost its Storm Bolter as well. The Snipers in his backfield managed to kill my Canoness! Whuuuuuut.

His unit had gotten out as well and fired on the exposed retributors and sent them fleeing.

Unfortunately the Exposed Dominion had survived and his Dreadnoughts quickly became slag heaps. Following them was the Command Rhino as well as well as the Commander and his retinue. The melta deluge destroyed them while the Hunter Killers and Krak Grenades did the rest.

4
At 14-5 on Kill points, and me pulling ahead in Maelstroms, he conceded at the bottom of 4. While he had 10 units left on the board (damn Battle Company) it was clear that he could no longer push to get to the Maelstroms with much success, and to do so would cost him his shooting which he could ill afford at this point. Given another round he would likely have finished 3 Rhinos but the retaliation would have been too much to handle given that most of my heavy hitters were obscured behind the things he had to kill and reaching forward was just going to get his hand burned.

The Battle Company went down in defeat. i scored all secondaries, Primary and Maelstrom.

These write-ups are great, and it sounds like you're crushing it at the tournament... way to represent!

MacPhail wrote:
These write-ups are great, and it sounds like you're crushing it at the tournament... way to represent!

I have been on somewhat of a tear recently. The Adepta Sororitas has been a winning army for me for a pretty long time, but I am now getting really comfortable with this new form of them. It's providing me an X Factor that I needed to explore more, but had kind of been avoiding as much because of cost as anything. Now that I finally spent the money to kind of update it to face the new breed of 7E opponents, it's been doing well.

I agree these writes are fantastic!

Never stop purging

Hey, does anyone have any thoughts about what those new Psychic powers for marines could do for sisters?

You could do some fun stuff in allied armies, like podding in Dominions and then swapping assault centurions or hammernators forward to replace them. Cataphractii armor gives slow and purposeful so Retributors with a terminator captain for pseudo-relentless has some uses.

I haven't seen any death star-esque builds with Sisters that really benefit here. The reroll saves makes a blob tougher.

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Hey, does anyone have any thoughts about what those new Psychic powers for marines could do for sisters?

You should be ashamed of yourself.

 pretre wrote:

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Hey, does anyone have any thoughts about what those new Psychic powers for marines could do for sisters?

*Snip*
You should be ashamed of yourself.

Exalted so damn hard!

On Saturday I stuck a Rune priest in a repressor with dominions for giggles. He had Technomancy and let it ignore shaken, stunned, gave it power of the machine spirit, healed missing hull points and gave it 'it will not die'. It was fun for a few turns. You could also hide dominions in a small piece of terrain then move the terrain via the Geokinesis discipline within melta range of something that needs killing. Veil of time also makes a wolfstar unkillable... which is nice.

PLayed a friendly tournament(part of a longer series of tournaments) this weekend, sisters with space marine allies. Brought Celestine 2 HF/F squads in Immos, 2 Domi squads in immos, 1 domi in a repressor 2 exorcists, a biker libby and a biker troop squad, ITC rules.

Game 1 was against the newest player in our gaming group, he had 4 tac squads on foot 1 unit of sternguard on foot, a forgeworld whirling for some reason and a big termie blob. It wasn't a good game for him. 11-0 for me.

Game 2 I play against(Keep in mind this is a friendly) an Eldar player, in Hammer and Anvil, with a 2 biker farseers a max unit of Hornets, 2 units of scat bikes, a unit of war walkers, 2 20 man guardian blobs, eldar artillery batteries(not sure about names), 9 man unit of warp spiders and the Hemlock fighter. I outflanked all 3 squads of dominions and put everthing else in the hardest cover I could find, out of range of as much as I could. He moved forward, blew up both immos and killed one sister squad, warp spiders moved 25 ish inches total towards my 'line' My turn, did 1 HP to a hornet between 2 exorcists. His turn, we're at a point where if he kills my furthest exorcist, the rest of his fire power will table me before my turn. he takes 1 hp off of it, kills everything else, celestine fails her get back up. I get 2 domi squads in, kill 1 war walker and 4 guardians then concede. 0-11

Game 3 was a space marine almost mirror match. He has podding grav cents and a storm talon along with 3 units of tacs in rhinos/razorbacks and 1 unit of sternguard with combi meltas in a rhino. This being killpoints I was happy for an, on paper, even match. He wins the roll off for deployment and opts to go second. Which is a bad idea but I can't tell him that, this is a tournament and I did make it very clear I have scout on the domis. My first turn I scout forwards 12 and am within 18 of 2 rhinos, which means he's about to lose 2 rhinos. Go to move the repressor, double ones on dangerous terrain, immobilized 13 inches away from the target :(. The other 2 immos move forward, one squad disembarks the immo pops the rhino the squad kills 2 tacs, the other immo pops the sternguards rhino, exorcist kills the razorback. Celestine and the bikes roll up invisible and move into position but aren't really in range of anything. His turn he drops his centurions and wipes the dominions on foot out moves the sternguard into melta range and whiffs doing 2 total pens, shield saves 1 and it gets shaken, squad inside are fine. He only manages one kill point. My turn I realize I forgot to deploy an immo so I roll for its reserves it comes in and nukes a flanking rhino, bikes nuke the centurions, sternguard get mopped up, it's now basically over. His big chance is the stormtalon, it comes in, whiffs on dominions that went to ground in a crater and I shoot at it with 1 shaken immo that rolls a 3 and then twin-links to a six, then a 6 to pen, then a 6 to explode it crashes and takes 1 domi with it. It was just a question of tabling at that point, I ended up taking KPs 13-1 getting all 3 secondaries and winning maelstrom by a ton. 11-0 me

I took 3rd overall which gave me enough points to overtake the leader in the series and am now in first place overall, I just have to keep getting decently high placings and I have a good shot at winning the whole thing in december.

Boom! Thats what we like to hear.

Nicely done!

Congrats! Keep it up!

Well done! Especially against drop marines, who have generally given me fits.

MacPhail wrote:
Well done! Especially against drop marines, who have generally given me fits.

Really? What does your standard list look like? I've found Sisters to be a really favorable match up against most drop lists.

They are less troublesome now that I've learned to leave a unit back to protect the Exos on the back line. Before I made that change I was getting drop Dreds autocannoning my Exos into smoking wrecks on Turn 2. The other pain was getting a Dred charging into the back of my Sisters blob before they could advance to camp a midfield objective, sort of a reverse tarpit. We play pretty terrain heavy tables and they'd be not quite done squeezing through a bottleneck when the Dred would reel them in. A much lesser issue is that I can no longer leave minimized units to camp backfield objectives, sucking up valuable points from the speartip of melty flamey Imperial justice.

A recent pure Sisters list at 2k was 2 CADs: Jacobus, 20-strong blob, F/HF foot squad, 3x melta doms in Immos, 2x Exos, and HF Rets in a Rhino, plus Celestine, 2x min squads, and 2 units of flamer Seraphim. The blob slogs its way to an objective, the HF Rets Rhino advances to mop up behind the Doms, Seraphim harass soft spots and clear objectives, Exos sit back and try to deal with major threats. I've been holding back Immo Doms or the F/HF foot patrol depending on whether I expect Dreds or Sternguard in the pods. There are a few different versions of this list (single CAD, no Seraphim, no blob, etc.), and for the next overhaul I'm going to pick up a few more Rhinos to mount up the whole army to better protect the infantry. To be honest, I've been adding in White Scars of late rather than refining the pure list to better deal with drop armies-- bikes can quickly return from the front to deal with backfield threats and reclaim lost objectives.

Good alt model for the Penitent Engine or alt stats with more shooting than fighting..............

Yeah, not a super fan.

Needs less pin up and more crazed lobotomized freak

Does make you wonder what a pen engine would be like with a little more ranged weaponry. Giving them the option for meltaguns would give them a can opener before the shredding begins.

But the model itself, not so much.

As is I don't mind that model. As the core to a conversion/kit-bash however? I think it's a great option. The pewter pen engine is such a pain to keep together and transporting it scares me. This looks like it'd be a good base to build a pen engine out of that will weigh half as much. Interesting find none-the-less. This looks like it's made by the same company that does those inquisitors with their pimp rides.

Don't think i like the model but on the subject of kit bashing a conversion for a peni, how about something as simple as a dreadknight with pewter peni driver rather than the marine in the baby carrier.

I think that model is a counts-as Kastelan, not a counts-as Pengine. I mean, you could convert it to fit, but then you'd have to ask why even bother. Also, pengines will never be modelling auto-pilot like most current plastics, but it isn't really as horrifying to put together as most people like to claim.

Quick battle report on my weekend matchup: I played pure Sisters against Necrons, my first time facing a Decurion. It was an 11-14 loss, but one that I'm still happy with tactically, as this is one of our club's better players running an army with a fearsome reputation.

He ran an almost all-gauss army, and I think a pretty typical Decurion (though I wouldn't know): Overlord with Command Barge, 4 units of Warriors, 2 Ghost Arks, Immortals, Tomb Blades, a Monolith, 2 Doom Scythes, and the formation that buffs 2 units of Praetorians with a Triarch Stalker (lots of rerolls). I ran 2 CADS: Jacobus, 2x F/HF Sisters in Rhinos, 3x melta Doms in MM Immos, 2x Exos, and HF Rets in a Rhino, plus Celestine, 2x small Sisters squads in the backfield, 2x flamer Seraphim, and HB Rets.

We played the mission with progressively fewer objective cards on a fairly dense Dawn of War board. He deployed first, so I set up Immo Doms, HF Rets, and both Exos to the left opposite his Praetorians and Triarch formation, 2 more Immo Doms centrally opposite his Monolith and Ghost Arks, and the two F/HF Rhino squads on the right opposite his Immortals and Tomb Blades. My 2 small squads of Sisters held backfield objectives and I reserved the Seraphim and Celestine.

I managed to seize the initiative, something that has happened to this Necron player in the last three games, all of which he still won. Not sure if that points to his skill as a player, the strength of his army, or critical errors on the part of his opponent trying to exploit it. Probably all three.

On my left flank, the Immo Doms and 2 Exos ground down the Praetorians over 2 turns. That flank was a little overloaded so the HF Rets in their Rhino with Jacobus shifted toward the center to eventually burn some Warriors and score an objective before getting gaussed to death. In the center the other 2 Immos, having scouted hard, unloaded their meltas on the doorstep and took out the Monolith, with one of them surviving to hide in some ruins, score an objective, and take out the Triarch Stalker in turn 3. On the right flank, my two F/HF Rhinos advanced to take on the Tomb Blades, but with limited success; they then failed to dislodge the Immortals from an objective and got ground down by massed gauss fire. The small backfield squads claimed some objective VPs early, then went down to long-range fire as the Warriors advanced. The Seraphim DSed in on turns 2 and 3; one grabbed an objected on my side of the board that had lost it's campers early and the other, with Celestine landed in his backfield and took out the Overlord after a tedious multi-turn melee. His Doom Scythes circled the battlefield, got 1 Exorcist, 3 transports, and shot up various squads.

The game ended with 4 full squads of Warriors and both Ghost Arks firmly holding the center (he'd been repairing them as fast as I killed them), half his Tomb Blades and his Immortals holding two flank objectives, and only my remaining Exo and the HB Rets hiding in a corner. The ended on turn 5, and he'd have very likely tabled me on turn 6. An 11-14 loss despite having seized on him doesn't feel great, but given the reputation of the army and the player, I'll take it, and he noted that he hadn't expected that tough a fight from me or my army. But I really wanted to hand him his first defeat... did I mention he's undefeated with Necrons?

So, thoughts and questions:

Necrons are damned hard to take off the board... How does Jake's WT only give a 5+ invul to a single squad and Necrons get army-wide 4+ RP? Doesn't quite seem balanced.

I ignored Ghost Arks and Warriors to focus on Praetorians (everyone in our club talks about how nasty they are), but I may have over-committed by deploying both Exos on that flank.

Had I made slightly different moves with Doms on Turn 1, I could have taken out his Ghost Arks (which fixed every single Warrior I killed) instead of the Monolith... did I fall for a distraction Carnifex there?

Once I realized how Quantum Shielding works, I wished I'd spread the melta around a bit more to get the AVs down to where Exo missles and maybe even HBs could do some good.

The F/HF Rhino squads were the wrong thing to send after the Tomb Blades... I was thinking of them as jetbikes, flimsy and jinky, but they are more like Marine bikes, with a base 3+ and T5, and I wished I'd had an Exorcist on that side of the board.

Ignoring the Warriors and Ghost Arks resulted in so much rapid-fire gauss output, he went very quickly through all my transports and then through the squads they contained.

The Tomb Blades and Immortals showed the potency of S5 shooting against T3 infantry, power armor or no.

Finally, 2 flyers are hard to ignore... I'm the only non-flyer-non-superheavy army at our club, and my opponents always check before bringing them against me. I have always said yes to single knights and flyers and tried to win on the ground with objectives, but I may turn down the offer to face 2 Doom Scythes again... do those S10 Death Rays really have a 360-degree fire arc?

Anyway, I think we made a good stand and the Sisters are getting the reputation of an army that puts up a good fight. I'm happy with the close game, but I'd love advice on how to put the next on in the win column. Comments and condolences welcome!

MacPhail wrote:
Quick battle report on my weekend matchup: I played pure Sisters against Necrons, my first time facing a Decurion. It was an 11-14 loss, but one that I'm still happy with tactically, as this is one of our club's better players running an army with a fearsome reputation.

He ran an almost all-gauss army, and I think a pretty typical Decurion (though I wouldn't know): Overlord with Command Barge, 4 units of Warriors, 2 Ghost Arks, Immortals, Tomb Blades, a Monolith, 2 Doom Scythes, and the formation that buffs 2 units of Praetorians with a Triarch Stalker (lots of rerolls). I ran 2 CADS: Jacobus, 2x F/HF Sisters in Rhinos, 3x melta Doms in MM Immos, 2x Exos, and HF Rets in a Rhino, plus Celestine, 2x small Sisters squads in the backfield, 2x flamer Seraphim, and HB Rets.

We played the mission with progressively fewer objective cards on a fairly dense Dawn of War board. He deployed first, so I set up Immo Doms, HF Rets, and both Exos to the left opposite his Praetorians and Triarch formation, 2 more Immo Doms centrally opposite his Monolith and Ghost Arks, and the two F/HF Rhino squads on the right opposite his Immortals and Tomb Blades. My 2 small squads of Sisters held backfield objectives and I reserved the Seraphim and Celestine.

I managed to seize the initiative, something that has happened to this Necron player in the last three games, all of which he still won. Not sure if that points to his skill as a player, the strength of his army, or critical errors on the part of his opponent trying to exploit it. Probably all three.

On my left flank, the Immo Doms and 2 Exos ground down the Praetorians over 2 turns. That flank was a little overloaded so the HF Rets in their Rhino with Jacobus shifted toward the center to eventually burn some Warriors and score an objective before getting gaussed to death. In the center the other 2 Immos, having scouted hard, unloaded their meltas on the doorstep and took out the Monolith, with one of them surviving to hide in some ruins, score an objective, and take out the Triarch Stalker in turn 3. On the right flank, my two F/HF Rhinos advanced to take on the Tomb Blades, but with limited success; they then failed to dislodge the Immortals from an objective and got ground down by massed gauss fire. The small backfield squads claimed some objective VPs early, then went down to long-range fire as the Warriors advanced. The Seraphim DSed in on turns 2 and 3; one grabbed an objected on my side of the board that had lost it's campers early and the other, with Celestine landed in his backfield and took out the Overlord after a tedious multi-turn melee. His Doom Scythes circled the battlefield, got 1 Exorcist, 3 transports, and shot up various squads.

The game ended with 4 full squads of Warriors and both Ghost Arks firmly holding the center (he'd been repairing them as fast as I killed them), half his Tomb Blades and his Immortals holding two flank objectives, and only my remaining Exo and the HB Rets hiding in a corner. The ended on turn 5, and he'd have very likely tabled me on turn 6. An 11-14 loss despite having seized on him doesn't feel great, but given the reputation of the army and the player, I'll take it, and he noted that he hadn't expected that tough a fight from me or my army. But I really wanted to hand him his first defeat... did I mention he's undefeated with Necrons?

So, thoughts and questions:

Necrons are damned hard to take off the board... How does Jake's WT only give a 5+ invul to a single squad and Necrons get army-wide 4+ RP? Doesn't quite seem balanced.

I ignored Ghost Arks and Warriors to focus on Praetorians (everyone in our club talks about how nasty they are), but I may have over-committed by deploying both Exos on that flank.

Had I made slightly different moves with Doms on Turn 1, I could have taken out his Ghost Arks (which fixed every single Warrior I killed) instead of the Monolith... did I fall for a distraction Carnifex there?

Once I realized how Quantum Shielding works, I wished I'd spread the melta around a bit more to get the AVs down to where Exo missles and maybe even HBs could do some good.

The F/HF Rhino squads were the wrong thing to send after the Tomb Blades... I was thinking of them as jetbikes, flimsy and jinky, but they are more like Marine bikes, with a base 3+ and T5, and I wished I'd had an Exorcist on that side of the board.

Ignoring the Warriors and Ghost Arks resulted in so much rapid-fire gauss output, he went very quickly through all my transports and then through the squads they contained.

The Tomb Blades and Immortals showed the potency of S5 shooting against T3 infantry, power armor or no.

Finally, 2 flyers are hard to ignore... I'm the only non-flyer-non-superheavy army at our club, and my opponents always check before bringing them against me. I have always said yes to single knights and flyers and tried to win on the ground with objectives, but I may turn down the offer to face 2 Doom Scythes again... do those S10 Death Rays really have a 360-degree fire arc?

Anyway, I think we made a good stand and the Sisters are getting the reputation of an army that puts up a good fight. I'm happy with the close game, but I'd love advice on how to put the next on in the win column. Comments and condolences welcome!

First, well done in a very difficult match against a worthy opponent.

As for your questions:
1. Fairness? Balanced? ecurions have no Objective Secured so the only armies that cannot compete with them are those who share that limitation. I would learn something pretty importand from that statement and utilize Objective Secured to advantage against them and many armies. Battle Companies are the Ridiculous ones that make it all Obsec. Stupid. But Necrons? Nah. I have now lost to just one guy playing a Decurion in all my many matches against them. Obsec just kills em. I play Necrons as well as my other armies and I can say that I have never used a Decurion. who needs it?

2. Killing the Ghost Arks would have "killed" more Warriors nd Immortals probably than the alternative targets would. Food for thought. Obviously it depends on whether you had the firepower to do it (you did). One thing I have done is sacrificed Celestine and a few things you took to Rhino up. This has made an enormous difference inthe speed and protestion I can give my army. Consider it.

It sounds like you make sound observations here so there's not much else to add. I think that the Aerial problem goes away quite a bit if you strike hard and fast and then use Rhinos to cower and position, then hit hard and fast again. You dont have to fire every gun every round. Sometimes prudent wasting of the enemies resources can get you victories also.

=)

On the subject of Aerial problems; I've been giving thought to putting a few points into an Inquisitorial Detachment specifically to give Prescience to Exorcists/Rets. If your talking about only hitting flyers on 6s then re-rolling "all failed To Hit rolls" is pretty huge. Or even for your Rets on that turn you really want to Rend something to death, although you'd want to get Litanies into the Ret squad to guarantee that the AoF goes off.

Setup for the detachment looks like this:

HQ
25 pts Inquisitor (bare bones and ordo of choice)
Elites
18 pts Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband: Psyker, Acolyte, Acolyte.
18 pts Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband: Psyker, Acolyte, Acolyte.
18 pts Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband: Psyker, Acolyte, Acolyte.
79 points

You'd get 3+d6 dice for manifesting powers and if your lucky enough, get prescience off on 3 targets.


And.... if you really wanted to abuse it, the henchmen could each take Land Raider (240-250pts +X for vehicle equipment) or Valkyrie (125pts + X equipment) as Dedi Transports. You could also add in Servo Skulls(up to 3, 3 pts each) on the inquisitor if you want some scout/infiltrate protection or if you Deep strike within 6" of one you only roll 1D6 for scatter.

upgrading the Inquisitor to a Psyker (ML1) and adding 2 sevo skulls, gives you a 4th Psyker and comes out at 115 points for the detachment exactly the same as a 5 girl BSS squad with F/HF in a Rhino.

Jancoran-- I think you're dead-on about ObSec... I maybe should have used my mobility as much to challenge his claims on objectives as to engage his forces. Not sure how it would have played out if I had tried to take down the Arks and his Warrior blob, but we will meet again, I'm sure. You'll be glad to know there are 3 more Marine Razorbacks on the way this month to do double duty as Sisters Rhinos... bring my total to 9. When they come I'll put together a list that drops Celestine and the Seraphim in exchange for a Canoness and mounting up those squads from the second CAD, maybe even squeeze in another HF Retributer unit. Whatever I do for units, I should be able to send 1-2 hulls against every objective, some of them with ObSec units of my own. When going against non-ObSec armies, especially tough ones like Necrons, do you add extra Troops choices in order to claim objectives without clearing them first, or do you go with minimum Troops selections?

Drider-- I had been trying to cook up an Inquisition unit to be an asset in the Shooting phase, but couldn't make the points add up advantageously. I know people have had luck with the Assault Inquisitor, but your idea about the Psychic phase is food for thought. I actually did Snap Shot an Exorcist at his Doom Scythes at one point when the game was nearly over and there were no other targets, got two hits, but couldn't Pen the temporary AV13 thing all his vehicles had. Let us know if you give the Prescience mob a try, and I'll do the same.

Thanks to both!

I think 4 Obsec units is enough. I make judicious use of reserves as well toprotect my swissters that are important. The mission really dictates that. In my current list I have four obsec things: Two sisters units plus their rhinos. I feel exposed though so I would definitely recommend to other people that they take 3-4 small sisters squads if they dont want/have the rhinos. less than 4 Obsec units has been a bad idea since fifth edition in my opinion.

Saint Celestine (135pts)

+ Troops (280pts) +

Battle Sister Squad (140pts)HF/F
Immolator DB MM
Battle Sister Squad (140pts) M/M
Immolator MM

+ Fast Attack (560pts) +

Dominion Squad (190pts) 4xM Combi
Immolator DB Laud MM

Dominion Squad (180pts) 4xM Combi
Immolator DB MM

Dominion Squad (190pts) 4xMelta Combi
Repressor

++ Space Marines: Codex (2015) (Formation Detachment) (524pts) ++

Chapter Tactics * [White Scars]

'Hunting Force * (524pts)
Attack Bike Squad MM
5xBikes 2 Grav
5xBikes 2Grav

Kor'sarro Khan [Moondrakkan]

Scout Bike Squad

So this is my hyper aggro alpha strike list for a tourney that only allows 1 CAD + 1 formation or w/e else, Khan is warlord for WS scout. Basically, if he deploys anything within 36 inches of my line it dies, or if he deploys anything in H&A at all it dies turn 2(with some lucky rolls admittedly)

Which leaves my 2 obsec units completely ignored, OR forces him to dive pass my line to stop me from scoring.

(I REALLY like shotgun lists)

Only one repressor? Doms are twice as good with repressors.

 pretre wrote:
Only one repressor? Doms are twice as good with repressors.

Firstly I only have the 1 repressor anyway, secondly, I almost always need to disembark the domis to get range(or melta range) on the target, saving 15 points and having a tank that's still useful on its own means that more than 2 repressors are unlikely to fit how I play dominions in general.

I find keeping them on board is important in keeping them alive. It also allows you to go more heavy on melta since you have HF on the Repressors. YMMV though.

I tried out the the dirt cheap triple psyker henchmen tonight and was actually really surprised about how fun and effective it was!



Prescience on HB Rets is supper effective! On the turn they popped their AoF, prescience meant that all 12 shots hit, which made a huge difference to how many rending wounds i inflicted. It doesn't feel like you get as much bang for your buck from prescience on Exos and my opponent didn't field any flyers so i couldn't test out the "poor man's skyfire". The extra couple of dice on top of the community dice to deny the which came in extremely useful as my opponent was using a combination of Precog and shadow fields to give his warlord a re-rollable 2++. Despite this, a clutch deny the which roll (with my entire dice pool) bagged me a turn without the re-roll and i was able to drop his warlord.

But with all that being said it is incredibly fun and satisfying to declare "this psyker is manifesting prescience on X' then rolling 5 dice (about 80% chance to manifest and 20% chance to peril) and just not giving a f**k if the psyker's head explodes. it just feels like thats how sisters would use psykers. 'Use' being the operative word, as psykers are a tool of the Imperium. you don't care if you break a tool, you just go and get another.

 pretre wrote:
I find keeping them on board is important in keeping them alive. It also allows you to go more heavy on melta since you have HF on the Repressors. YMMV though.

Flamers tend to be borderline useless in my meta, almost everyone plays marines not being able to fire it after moving more than six hurts too.

Also, I really don't ever try to keep dominions alive, I just try to kill more than 115 points of models with them and then keep the tanks alive.

/shrug Guess it depends on the person.

She who bails, fails.
- Pretre

 deviantduck wrote:
Those who bail, fail.

Quoted for truth!

I used to run the immolator set-up with dominions. I've found that the damage output from the tanks is marginal compared to extra turns of shooting from the squad. You can only move 6" anyway to fire the girls at full effect and heavy flamers are generally quite useful at killing the typical backfield objective holders like scouts and nurglings.

PanzerLeader wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
Those who bail, fail.

Quoted for truth!

I used to run the immolator set-up with dominions. I've found that the damage output from the tanks is marginal compared to extra turns of shooting from the squad. You can only move 6" anyway to fire the girls at full effect and heavy flamers are generally quite useful at killing the typical backfield objective holders like scouts and nurglings.

Indeed. For whatever reason when they roll up in the Repressor, they don't seem as much a threat. Plus that 13 Front Armour.

One thing I've started debating is the use of Outflank. Is it better to trust in Random Number Tzeentch, or just start them on the field and hope they aren't a priority target (Presuming I don't bring a Knight, which then becomes the priority target.)

 deviantduck wrote:
Those who bail, fail.

It's 'She who bails, fails'. I made that one up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hoitash wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
Those who bail, fail.

Quoted for truth!

I used to run the immolator set-up with dominions. I've found that the damage output from the tanks is marginal compared to extra turns of shooting from the squad. You can only move 6" anyway to fire the girls at full effect and heavy flamers are generally quite useful at killing the typical backfield objective holders like scouts and nurglings.

Indeed. For whatever reason when they roll up in the Repressor, they don't seem as much a threat. Plus that 13 Front Armour.

One thing I've started debating is the use of Outflank. Is it better to trust in Random Number Tzeentch, or just start them on the field and hope they aren't a priority target (Presuming I don't bring a Knight, which then becomes the priority target.)

I've always been a fan of Overload as a concept (jy2 did a lot of battle reports on this concept). Put a ton of threats on the board turn 1 and make them choose.

I had been Outflanking mine almost exclusively until recently, and I'm inclined to think it is overrated. If your opponent knows how hard they hit, and you go second, and you deploy them centrally or in the open, you'll probably lose them. Otherwise, I've gotten greater impact from mine Scouting up on a flank, using BLoS terrain advantageously, maybe losing one to the first shooting turn, but otherwise hitting hard. Even when a squad gets dismounted early, they can grab cover, or I'll disembark a BSS squad to free up a transport for them, and they'll usually get at least some of their points back later in the game by busting someone's jink save as they zoom by. Outflanking runs the risk of all the juicy stuff being gone from the flanks by the time they arrive, either because your opponent deployed their high-yield targets centrally, advanced them out of melta range, or has bubble-wrapped them effectively. I've definitely had Dominions show up too late to catch the enemy knight in the DZ.

Outflanking is situational. In hammer and anvil deployment it is very good if your opponent knows how to exploit the additional depth to avoid an alpha strike. It also lets you respond to their moves up the board.

In vanguard and dawn of war, objective placement really determines utility. If there are objectives on both flanks and your opponent has high value targets that like to camp them (artillery, rip tides, etc.) it can be worth outflanking.

My point is: it's a good ability but it should never be considered a must use.

PanzerLeader wrote:
Outflanking is situational. In hammer and anvil deployment it is very good if your opponent knows how to exploit the additional depth to avoid an alpha strike. It also lets you respond to their moves up the board.

In vanguard and dawn of war, objective placement really determines utility. If there are objectives on both flanks and your opponent has high value targets that like to camp them (artillery, rip tides, etc.) it can be worth outflanking.

My point is: it's a good ability but it should never be considered a must use.

Agreed here. The option to do something isnt a mandate to do something.

 deviantduck wrote:
She who bails, fails.
- Pretre

Fixed it for ya.

It has served me well for editions.

 deviantduck wrote:
She who bails, fails.
- Pretre

She who bails, gets her points back.

ERJAK wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
She who bails, fails.
- Pretre

She who bails, gets her points back.

I used to think that. Then I ran my girls in Repressors and they kept making their points back while being around to score later in the game.

Exactly. Getting your points back is useless if you still lose the game.

With a repressor, you can still fire all your meltas and do it multiple times in the game. If you bail, you die.

I must be out of date on the repressor rules in that case.

I was under the impression that it could fire two special weapons from the top hatch and then had 3 firing points on each side for bolt type weapons so you could essentially shoot 6 bolters on each side (two per firing point).

Did this change in the latest Imperial Armour book?

Voldrak wrote:
I must be out of date on the repressor rules in that case.

I was under the impression that it could fire two special weapons from the top hatch and then had 3 firing points on each side for bolt type weapons so you could essentially shoot 6 bolters on each side (two per firing point).

Did this change in the latest Imperial Armour book?

Yes.

2 Out the top and then three side which can each be used by one passenger.

So, effectively, 4 meltas and a combi at any one target.

Time to post the list I have been working on.

I like playing at the 2500 level and I am looking for feedback.



++ Adepta Sororitas: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1130pts) ++

+ HQ (135pts) +

Saint Celestine (135pts)

+ Troops (230pts) +

Battle Sister Squad (115pts) [2x Battle Sister, Battle Sister with Flamer, Battle Sister with Meltagun, Sororitas Rhino]
Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

Battle Sister Squad (115pts) [2x Battle Sister, Battle Sister with Flamer, Battle Sister with Meltagun, Sororitas Rhino]
Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

+ Fast Attack (390pts) +

Dominion Squad (105pts) [4x Dominion with Meltagun]
Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

Dominion Squad (105pts) [4x Dominion with Meltagun]
Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

Dominion Squad (180pts) [4x Dominion with Meltagun, Repressor [FW]]
Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

+ Heavy Support (375pts) +

Exorcist (125pts)

Exorcist (125pts)

Exorcist (125pts)

++ Adepta Sororitas: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1069pts) ++

+ HQ (100pts) +

Uriah Jacobus, Protector of the Faith (100pts)

+ Troops (230pts) +

Battle Sister Squad (115pts) [2x Battle Sister, Battle Sister with Flamer, Battle Sister with Meltagun, Sororitas Rhino]
Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

Battle Sister Squad (115pts) [2x Battle Sister, Battle Sister with Flamer, Battle Sister with Meltagun, Sororitas Rhino]
Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

+ Fast Attack (345pts) +

Dominion Squad (180pts) [4x Dominion with Meltagun, Repressor [FW]]
Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

Seraphim Squad (165pts) [5x Seraphim, Seraphim with Two Inferno Pistols, Seraphim with Two Inferno Pistols]

+ Heavy Support (394pts) +

Retributor Squad (124pts) [2x Retributor, 4x Retributor with Heavy Flamer]
Retributor Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

Retributor Squad (124pts) [2x Retributor, 4x Retributor with Heavy Flamer]
Retributor Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

Retributor Squad (146pts) [2x Retributor, 4x Retributor with Heavy Bolter, Retributor with Simulacrum Imperialis]
Retributor Superior [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

++ Blood Angels: Codex (2014) (BA Flesh Tearers Strike Force) (295pts) ++

+ (No Category) +

Relics and Detachment-rules [Codex: Blood Angels]

+ HQ (85pts) +

Sanguinary Priest (85pts) [The Angel's Wing]

+ Troops (70pts) +

Scout Squad (70pts) [Camo Cloaks, 4x Scouts, 4x Sniper Rifle]
Scout Sergeant [Sniper Rifle]

+ Fast Attack (140pts) +

Drop Pod (35pts) [Storm Bolter]

Drop Pod (35pts) [Storm Bolter]

Drop Pod (35pts) [Storm Bolter]

Drop Pod (35pts) [Storm Bolter]



The basics:

Celestine runs with the Sanguinary Priest for toughness 4 against shooting. She also gains feel no pain. Seraphims can always be bodyguards, otherwise I run them as a separate harassment unit.

Two dominion squads with meltas go in drop pods.
Two retributor squads with heavy flamers go in drop pods.

I get flexibility on turn 1. Whether I need to pop armor or get rid of infrantry, I pick the two squads better suited to the task. More dominions in repressors for some scouting or outflanking flexibility.

The rest of the list should normally be self explanatory.

Comments?

 pretre wrote:
Exactly. Getting your points back is useless if you still lose the game.

With a repressor, you can still fire all your meltas and do it multiple times in the game. If you bail, you die.

This comes down to meta honestly. If you guys are playing against a lot of blob cqc guard or footslog tac marines then sure, shooting out of the repressor will give you multiple shots. Where I play, you will be out of range turn 1 because no one is dumb enough to put something within 30". By turn 2 all, your girls are out on foot anyway, only pinned, down 1 squaddie, and 3" out of counterattack range. Target saturation+surprise extra 6 inches+Tanks that can actually function alright on their own make Immolators a compelling choice against repressors in some metas. The way I like to run it is 2 Immos as a vanguard unit, disembarking to alpha out whatever my opponent though needed to be less than 36 inches away from me and then have the repressor come wave 2 and be a lot harder to shift while also still having to deal with now 4 groups of melta in his face. Putting normal troops in repressors to follow would be pretty great though.

For mech sisters you HAVE TO be killing things turn 1 because even front armor 13 repressors don't have the kind of staying power you need to fight full on attrition.

Welps.

That list idea just died with the release of this new FAQ.

Now I have to find out what I am going to do with those newly purchased BA models.

Are they unopened? You could probably return them.

So with the new FAQ hitting, what is changing in everyone's plans? I never relied on drop pods, so that doesn't hit me all that hard. Most likely the biggest impact on me is the grenade assault nerf, which makes monsters a whole lot harder for me to deal with if I let them get to me.

No drop pod sisters. So thats new.

 curran12 wrote:
So with the new FAQ hitting, what is changing in everyone's plans? I never relied on drop pods, so that doesn't hit me all that hard. Most likely the biggest impact on me is the grenade assault nerf, which makes monsters a whole lot harder for me to deal with if I let them get to me.

Scout got better. Bastion Jacobus got nerfed. Krak grenades are useless. Superfriends are even better.

I haven't had a chance to go through it all yet, how did Scout improve? I missed that.

Voldrak wrote:
Welps.

That list idea just died with the release of this new FAQ.

Now I have to find out what I am going to do with those newly purchased BA models.

I am working on a actual Flesh Tearers, army if you are serious pm me.

Also I am confused on the template ruling. Can we place different templates all at once so we don't lose out on hits due to casualties?

 curran12 wrote:
I haven't had a chance to go through it all yet, how did Scout improve? I missed that.

Scout moves now occur explicitly after Seize the Initiative is rolled. If your opponent seizes you can redeploy into cover/out of LOS and if they don't seize you can be super aggressive.

Templates and blasts now hit every level.

Glad I didn't invest too heavily in drop pods. That's a shame but I guess makes sense. At least we can overwatch invisibility.

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Glad I didn't invest too heavily in drop pods. That's a shame but I guess makes sense. At least we can overwatch invisibility.

Good thing I always borrowed my brother's BA drop pods instead of investing in my own.

No more Drop Pod Culexus either, such a shame.

 MrFlutterPie wrote:

Also I am confused on the template ruling. Can we place different templates all at once so we don't lose out on hits due to casualties?

Nah, it's atrociously worded but it means; fire the heavy flamer, then resolve those hits then fire the normal flamer and resolve those hits, then if you want throw a grenade and/or shoot bolters with the rest of the girls.

Drider wrote:

 MrFlutterPie wrote:

Also I am confused on the template ruling. Can we place different templates all at once so we don't lose out on hits due to casualties?

Nah, it's atrociously worded but it means; fire the heavy flamer, then resolve those hits then fire the normal flamer and resolve those hits, then if you want throw a grenade and/or shoot bolters with the rest of the girls.

Thanks for the clarification

Although that does suck for BA and us uggh

FAQ as intended or FAQ as written

I'm really disappointed with the flamer ruling. It really feels like they're trying to tell us that our BSS are taking turns and politely allowing one sister to fire before the other. From a fluff standpoint this kills immersion and from a rules standpoint it's not like flamers were super-amazing-OP and needed a mechanical nerf to bring them in-line with other weapons. BSS are one of the few units in the game that this affects too, because you know... SoB OP right?

It also affects guard Platoon Command squads w/3 flamers and a HF. But yeah a real nerf.

Take this with a grain of salt as I usually do not bring up anything I hear. I've been burned as often as everyone else here when it comes to sisters, but I am finding myself hopefull for the first time in a few years.

I have had two people within the industry share information indicating that boxes of plastic sisters are now available at the memphis warehouse awaiting the go from HQ. Whether this is true or not obviously remains to be verified.

Previous rumors however seemed to indicate that there would be a release at the latest around this summer. I never expected this to be right, however if what I have been told turns out to be true, then we could see a release before end of the year.

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
I'm really disappointed with the flamer ruling. It really feels like they're trying to tell us that our BSS are taking turns and politely allowing one sister to fire before the other. From a fluff standpoint this kills immersion and from a rules standpoint it's not like flamers were super-amazing-OP and needed a mechanical nerf to bring them in-line with other weapons. BSS are one of the few units in the game that this affects too, because you know... SoB OP right?

Could it be that we now want to run mechanized Retributers (or Celestians, I suppose) with all the Heavy Flamers and BSS Rhinos with 2x Flamers to maximize template coverage? Would it be worth giving up the S5 hits from the Troops in exchange for a few extra wounds with PE? That would also make it easier to leave everyone firing from the top hatch. The new ruling might make it tempting to unload and spread the squad so the two templates aren't hitting the same models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voldrak wrote:

I have had two people within the industry share information indicating that boxes of plastic sisters are now available at the memphis warehouse awaiting the go from HQ. Whether this is true or not obviously remains to be verified.

The last thing I heard from anyone on a GW payroll was that Sisters might be handed off to ForgeWorld. I've learned (repeatedly over the last decade) not to trust any of it until I'm holding my shiny new plastics (resins?) in my grubby little paws.

Voldrak wrote:
Take this with a grain of salt as I usually do not bring up anything I hear. I've been burned as often as everyone else here when it comes to sisters, but I am finding myself hopefull for the first time in a few years.

I have had two people within the industry share information indicating that boxes of plastic sisters are now available at the memphis warehouse awaiting the go from HQ. Whether this is true or not obviously remains to be verified.

Previous rumors however seemed to indicate that there would be a release at the latest around this summer. I never expected this to be right, however if what I have been told turns out to be true, then we could see a release before end of the year.

Well we can but hope

I have a few hundred quid waiting to be spent on them .............

Oh this one again...

I feel for you Pretre.

Taking upon yourself to compile all the rumor information and keeping it up to date must mean you've seen it all by now.

Most of us likely have some of our innocence left compared to you

Voldrak wrote:
I feel for you Pretre.

Taking upon yourself to compile all the rumor information and keeping it up to date must mean you've seen it all by now.

Most of us likely have some of our innocence left compared to you

Well, even beyond that, I have been hearing rumors of plastic sisters for what... 15+ years? I'll believe it when I see it.

Also "when are going to see plastic Sisters of Battle" should have been a offical FAQ

well this is not official YET is it? So i mean people have tiome to think about it and change it?

 Jancoran wrote:
well this is not official YET is it? So i mean people have tiome to think about it and change it?

That is correct. If you disagree with parts of it, post n their facebook.

 pretre wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
well this is not official YET is it? So i mean people have tiome to think about it and change it?

That is correct. If you disagree with parts of it, post n their facebook.

I like 95% of it. It makes sense in just about every place and its pretty much how I have read all of it barring a couple things. The grenades in particular is just a mind-blower. I think I'll get on their and kind of explore that a little, but ultimately I just love that this even exists.

Looks like my dominon squad lost their drop pod. Now I gotta come up with 5 more points to move them into a repressor, and my sister squad into a Rhino. At least scouting got waaaaaaaay better. So three scoutting repressors with minimal risk is pretty nice.

Or drop the dominion + drop pod altogether and put my ASF back in.... Hmmmm.... I have until May 28th to figure it out.

they lose their drop pods but scout moves are done after seize rolls, scout 12", move 6", disembark 6" shoot 12" (melta at 6") so that's a 30"-36" threat bubble before turn 1 starts. If you go second you can always scout them behind cover or off to one flank. sure it's not as good as a drop pod but it is by no means bad.

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
I'm really disappointed with the flamer ruling. It really feels like they're trying to tell us that our BSS are taking turns and politely allowing one sister to fire before the other. From a fluff standpoint this kills immersion and from a rules standpoint it's not like flamers were super-amazing-OP and needed a mechanical nerf to bring them in-line with other weapons. BSS are one of the few units in the game that this affects too, because you know... SoB OP right?

Its been like this since 7th came out though - since you are explicitly forced to resolve differently named weapons separate from each other (as per the general shooting sequence rules), flamers and heavy flamers are resolved separately. I didn't really need a FAQ, but I guess clarity is always good.

Its why I prefer to take two flamers rather than a flamer/heavy flamer on Battle Sister Squads. Heavy Flamers go on Retributors to make them Rending

 GoonBandito wrote:

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
I'm really disappointed with the flamer ruling. It really feels like they're trying to tell us that our BSS are taking turns and politely allowing one sister to fire before the other. From a fluff standpoint this kills immersion and from a rules standpoint it's not like flamers were super-amazing-OP and needed a mechanical nerf to bring them in-line with other weapons. BSS are one of the few units in the game that this affects too, because you know... SoB OP right?

Its been like this since 7th came out though - since you are explicitly forced to resolve differently named weapons separate from each other (as per the general shooting sequence rules), flamers and heavy flamers are resolved separately. I didn't really need a FAQ, but I guess clarity is always good.

Its why I prefer to take two flamers rather than a flamer/heavy flamer on Battle Sister Squads. Heavy Flamers go on Retributors to make them Rending

The problem was you could argue that the "multiple templates" rule would apply and supersede the different named weapons rule. This is how my gaming group ruled it. The clarification is nice but I still think they should let templates of all types stack. It's not like they're overpowered or anything. People complain about D-scythes but they get to all fire together anyways so this doesn't hurt them at all. What's the harm in allowing flamers to stack? Oh well it's written in stone now, I do appreciate a clear answer now though at least.

Drider wrote:
they lose their drop pods but scout moves are done after seize rolls, scout 12", move 6", disembark 6" shoot 12" (melta at 6") so that's a 30"-36" threat bubble before turn 1 starts. If you go second you can always scout them behind cover or off to one flank. sure it's not as good as a drop pod but it is by no means bad.

That's basically the same. Nothing new there other than you can hide if you get seized on...

Kinda bummed about the drop pods, I've got like six and was planning to run them full of rending heavy flamers at ATC this year. Also, the Culexus got less useful against psyker Deathstars; and the grenade ruling just doesn't make sense to me; why can't we all throw krak grenades at MC/vehicles?

So in light of this little gem:

Q: What books/codexes/supplements are the most current?
A: We recommend you use the latest published books that are in your collection – the copyright date (which is usually beneath the contents) will let you know which book is the most recent. Some older books might not work with the latest rules, and it’s up to you and your opponent to agree which to use.

I got reminded that there is nothing actually preventing me from playing the Witchhunter codex if I wanted.. so long as my oponent was ok with it.


Has anyone toyed with the idea of building a list out of this book and seeing if it can be competitive in the current meta?

awesome. Im on it

I've have jokingly had this conversation with guys at my club, the general consensus is that strictly speaking I could if i wanted to, but if i did then i would definitely be considered 'that guy' and it's a bit like using the word of the law to defeat the spirit of the law. It's widely accepted that the Inq/GK/AS codexs are, for lack of a better term, the latest and most recent edition of that codex. Not to mention weather or not it would stand up at tournament. i'd be interest to find out if someone tried it at an ITC/ETC event what the ruling would be.

However I am literally just home from my club after beating Tau with a 1500 pure sisters list. so i'm in a good mood. We were playing the draft FAQ and the only thing that really effected the game was the 1 grenade in combat ruling. In the end it didn't make much of a difference as the only time it came up was when i was drip feeding 5 girl squads into a unit of 3 Riptides to try to lock them in combat for a turn.

Witchhunters has been replaced by Inq and AS.

The FAQ is pretty clear. You can use any Codex to build your army that you and your opponent agree to.

That said, I think you'll find massive compatibility issues between Witch Hunters and the 7th edition core rules. I suspect you'll also have issues matching the number of units fielded by contemporary armies given price drops over time. I might dig out my old WH book just to experiment though

PanzerLeader wrote:
The FAQ is pretty clear. You can use any Codex to build your army that you and your opponent agree to.

The rules don't need to say that. By definition, two opponents can agree to anything. You want all your space marines to have a 2+ armor save? Get your opponent to agree to it. Getting an event to agree to something is a whole different ball of wax.

typically we are talking tournament play anyways when this comes up since obviously basementHammer is unfettered by any rules but the ones you agree to enforce.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
typically we are talking tournament play anyways when this comes up since obviously basementHammer is unfettered by any rules but the ones you agree to enforce.

 pretre wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
The FAQ is pretty clear. You can use any Codex to build your army that you and your opponent agree to.

The rules don't need to say that. By definition, two opponents can agree to anything. You want all your space marines to have a 2+ armor save? Get your opponent to agree to it. Getting an event to agree to something is a whole different ball of wax.

Sisters players are rare enough I'd bet you could get a TO to approve a Witchhunters list with adequate notice. Most of them would be happy with the diversity. I still don't think its actually competitive in the current rule set and meta though.

I was having a think about how viable it would be to put together a Sis-Quisition death star and came up with this. I was wondering if you guys would take a look and see what you think.



This is the one of the cheaper bare bones versions and basically what it boils down to is a 16 model unit with, 3 crusaders to tank with. the majority of of the attacks coming from 7 death cult assassins. 4 priests with P.Mauls for hymns, zealot, re-roll wounds/saves and smash for the back up priests (one with litanies). 2 Inquisitors for a rad/psychotoke grenade and psyker upgrade for buffs and free force weapons. all packaged in a 16 seater Land Raider (picked up by either making the battle conclave a henchmen unit or adding in henchmen unit to grab the dedi transport), with Celestine (for fearless and hit and run) tucked in behind the LR as it moves up the table who then attaches to the unit when it disembarks.

I think the concept is reasonably sound, has some nice synergies going on and is comparatively cheep when compared to some other death stars. the main thing i haven't made up my mind about though is what the best psychic table to roll on would be. There isn't one single primaris power which stands out as amazing. Prescience is only half value because of the combination of Hit and Run and Zealot and everything else that's decent is a random roll to get.

it might also be interesting to play around with the inquisitors a little, drop the psyker upgrades, swap one out to an ordo hereticus and give him a Null Rod to turn off the buffs on say a superfriends death star, rad grenade them down to T4 and then go to town with a shed load of high initiative AP3 attacks.

I've played against the sisters/inquisition death star before; you might think about Hector Rex for fluff and fun. He's a bit pricey but is a level 2 psyker that has a storm shield, force sword and knows sanctuary by default. Then your 3++ goes to a rerollable 2++... profit!

Good news everybody! A loyal citizen of the Imperium has reported news from Warhammer Fest that the Repressor is coming back (the mould had worn out, and Forgeworld have been making a new one). In addition, word of a limited run of Immolator kits and FAQ updates for Imperial Aeronautica flyers for Death from the Skies! All glory to the Imperium!

Credit to Aquilanus over at Bolter and Chainsword - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319188-the-future-of-sisters/page-5#entry4395194

 GoonBandito wrote:
Good news everybody! A loyal citizen of the Imperium has reported news from Warhammer Fest that the Repressor is coming back (the mould had worn out, and Forgeworld have been making a new one). In addition, word of a limited run of Immolator kits and FAQ updates for Imperial Aeronautica flyers for Death from the Skies! All glory to the Imperium!

Credit to Aquilanus over at Bolter and Chainsword - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319188-the-future-of-sisters/page-5#entry4395194

That's so bizarre. They had a machine that only made Immo canopies? Maybe the source meant mold? They make plenty of other clear plastic pieces, so I find it hard to believe they have a machine for every separate clear plastic piece they produce.

Still, it'll be nice to have the Repressor back just for the sake of variety, and maybe it's a sign that FW believes more strongly in the Sisters than GW main does if they're willing to go through the effort of rebuilding a mold.

 GoonBandito wrote:
maybe it's a sign that FW believes more strongly in the Sisters than GW main does

It also lends some support to a rumor I'd been hearing that Sisters might go fully over to Forge World. That's from a GW retail manager who saw fit to speculate...

 GoonBandito wrote:
Good news everybody! A loyal citizen of the Imperium has reported news from Warhammer Fest that the Repressor is coming back (the mould had worn out, and Forgeworld have been making a new one). In addition, word of a limited run of Immolator kits and FAQ updates for Imperial Aeronautica flyers for Death from the Skies! All glory to the Imperium!

Credit to Aquilanus over at Bolter and Chainsword - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/319188-the-future-of-sisters/page-5#entry4395194

This is great news! (No really)

With the new FAQ, did the Canoness Quad Gun on an ADL lose enough versatility to not be worth the points, or will people still use them? Was much of the value in putting Exos and Rets in 4+ cover, or was it mostly about Skyfire and Interceptor to begin with? Mine is a flyer-heavy meta with 1 in almost every game I play, so I feel like I may still give it a shot. Thoughts?

 MacPhail wrote:
With the new FAQ, did the Canoness Quad Gun on an ADL lose enough versatility to not be worth the points, or will people still use them? Was much of the value in putting Exos and Rets in 4+ cover, or was it mostly about Skyfire and Interceptor to begin with? Mine is a flyer-heavy meta with 1 in almost every game I play, so I feel like I may still give it a shot. Thoughts?

I haven't used one of those in quite a bit of time... I'm a bigger fan of the Bastion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No surprises here:

At least the psishock on the condemnor is back to being decent.

Right on, I didn't realize those had been posted. I was referring to the main FAQ clarifying that Skyfire trumps Interceptor in terms of having to snap shot at drop pods. Maybe most people had always played it that way. I hadn't ever used an ADL+Quad, but with my club adding ever more flyers (Dark Eldar, Eldar, Tau, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Necrons... basically every flyer in the game), I was starting to consider it just as the FAQ came around. As it stands (and maybe always had), a Canoness can enjoy BS5 S7 shots against Flyers, FMCs, and Skimmers, whether on the board or arriving from Reserves, and make snap shots (still benefiting from twin-linked) against everything else, including models on the table and drop pods and other non-Flyer/FMC/Skimmers arriving from Reserves. I face some combination of those unit types almost every game, so I didn't feel like the FAQ would change my outlook, but if that fortification were already barely earning its points, I could see how that might be the end of it.

Well, if you take a bastion with Quad, you can put Rets and Uriah inside for 3 Rending rounds with 4-6 HB and 1 Quadgun. Still pretty nice.

I'm pissy about the celestine clarification. The rule is pretty cut and dry, and the FAQ is completely going against it. Miraculous intervention is one of the few rules in the game that was actually written with a little forethought.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and the immolator gets a fire point now because someone asked? Weird.

Immolator lost the firepoint after moving away from the witchhunter codex.

Someone should ask about the pseudo fast rule it used to have where it could still shoot it's heavy flamer after moving 12 inches.

Who knows, maybe we get it back just like that fire point?

The new psyshock rule is awesome. So much thing to do with it \o/

The firepoint on the immo is totally uncalled for but hey, wont complain if we get it.
And yeah, sad for Celestine, but she's still supergood nonetheless.

Well, if you take a bastion with Quad, you can put Rets and Uriah inside for 3 Rending rounds with 4-6 HB and 1 Quadgun. Still pretty nice.

Can't use the quadgun if you're inside the bastion, sadly :-( (you need to be base contact with it).

Quad Gun on the bastion becomes an emplaced weapon and can be fired by a unit inside of the building just like the heavy bolters.

Yep

I'm thinking a double command squad army could be good for competitive anti-psyker now.

New FAQ gave immolators a firing point unless A) i read the codex wrong and they always had one or B) I read the FAQ wrong

yeah I never saw a firing point so i was kinda surprised

The firing point on immolator is one of the reasons I am not taking these FAQs too seriously right now.

It feels like the people answering them are not even bothering to read the books before answering them.

Voldrak wrote:
Quad Gun on the bastion becomes an emplaced weapon and can be fired by a unit inside of the building just like the heavy bolters.

What rule says that ? Never saw anything like it, so I probably missed it somewhere.

I guess immos used to have a firing point but in the new book they forgot to copy paste it right and it lost it's top hatch. At least that's what I heard.

Voldrak wrote:
The firing point on immolator is one of the reasons I am not taking these FAQs too seriously right now.

It feels like the people answering them are not even bothering to read the books before answering them.

They used to have one - its the top hatch of a Rhino - but it got lost in WD codex, looks like its back....

Yes I am aware it used to have a firing point. It also used to be able to fire it's heavy flamer after moving 12 inches and had a clear explanation as to why.

Both of these rules however were removed.

Now they are addding one back because someone asked about it?

To me this just sounds like bad reading of the current rules and assuming the model would have one.

Until they actually say those FAQs are official and in their final version, I am not going to be too hopeful. No one has, after all, admited that it was indeed a human error and that they forgot to bring the firepoint over.

At this rate someone should ask about firing after moving 12". If they were willing to give us the firing point back, maybe we can get fast back as well.

Hell, ask how many times Celestine can use her act of faith, too. We might get lucky.

 deviantduck wrote:
Hell, ask how many times Celestine can use her act of faith, too. We might get lucky.

Now you're thinking with faith.

The immolator hatch thing is something that should exist. It is clearly on the fig, so it really aught to be in the rules. That is one of those things that always kinda bothered me about the immolator figs

Or maybe they're making the FAQ forward compatible with soon to be releases. New Sisters codex and 7.5.5 ed or 8th ed rules confirmed!

Half life 3 confirmed as well!

Not many people will be in my boat but if the fire point on the immo comes through it's going to be a real annoyance for me. I used the spare turret that comes on the sprue when you buy an Exo on top of a rhino in a kind of pseudo razorback configuration as my Immos. I'll wait and see what happens with the FAQ to find out if i'm going to have to 'fix' these, but a few options spring to mind, conversion(still trying to think of a non gak looking way to do it), recasting or 3D printing the top plate.

I've got a game this weekend, and it may end up being one I've been scheming over for a while. My club's Tyranid player wants to match up all his tiny bugs against all my flamers, just to see the carnage. He'll be using the Endless Swarm formation to spam as many gaunts as possible, and we may look at the Sisters' Defend the Shrine mission if it fits. This is really just a fun game to see what kind of body count we can generate. I've managed to scrape together something like the following:

Double CAD (Jacobus/Celestine)- 2000-ish points
4x BSS Rhinos with flamer/flamer
3x Dom Immos w/ 4x melta and either TL heavy flamer or TL multi-melta
2x Seraphim w/ 2x double hand flamers
2x Ret Rhinos with 4x heavy flamer + simulacrum
1x Rets w/ 4x heavy bolters + simulacrum
1x Penitent Engine

I think that's 8 flamers, 12 heavy flamers, and 4 hand flamers for burning swarms, plus melta, multi-melta, and rending heavy bolters to hopefully keep a few big bugs off my back. My plan would be to fire from transports for as long as possible, send melta after synapse, and hopefully be hard to shift off objectives. Not a balanced list, necessarily, but one I hope will be good for a laugh on a single thematic outing.

The penitent Engine is an interesting choice. Love the Retributors of course. They are fantyastic against all kinds of targets. the Seraphim I can only assume are there purely for Celestines benefit. I consider that kind of an expensive unit altogether with little durability and pretty good melee ability if the sergeant has a Power axe but the you dont have a power axe so its all up to Celestine after her bodyguard gets popped. One idea for her is instead of dropping Seraphim from the sky, just flat out and let sisters of battle form a rhino wall for her to join them behind and maybe save a few points on the Seraphim. Its a toss up there so just an idea.

Looks like a fun list though.

I've played a similar sort of game for the campaign at my club(only restriction was is no special characters). i don't have the list anymore so can't give the exact wargear, but off the top of my head at 1500 points i brought:

Double CAD
2x Canoness,
4x BSS, F, HF, 2 rhinos, 2 immolators
1x Seraphim, 2x2 hand flamers
2x Exorcist
1x Ret (squad of 10), 4x HB, simulacrum,
3x Penitent Engines (Individual units, not squaded)

My only problem was he brought 2 flyerant who smashed Rets by T2. although I did force a failed grounding check on one of them who then got ripped apart by a penitent engine.

Here's a few pictures from the game.
http://i.imgur.com/ethU2mm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UMsUPfi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cNSoVuJ.jpg

Jancoran-- The Penitent actually belongs to the 'Nid player, and it remains a mystery to all of us. He doesn't play Sisters, so it sits on his display case shelf, and I've never run one. I probably wouldn't run a single one in other than a fluffy just-for-fun game like this; it seems only a handful of people run them at all, and even then only in multiples. But hey, double heavy flamers in a burn-the-bugs list seemed like the best opportunity to try it out, and maybe it will serve as a distraction carnifex of sorts. The Seraphim are mostly for Celestine, but if he really jams up the movement corridors with his gribblies as I know he can, it might be nice to take a risky drop next to something juicy or jump out early to secure a pinch point for my transports. Maybe I should squeeze points for a power axe as you say.

Drider-- Great photos... I'll be sure and get some to post if this game goes down. I think my opponent will ground his Flyrants in deference to my lack of AA, and to get even more little bugs as he's really committed to see just how many he can respawn. He's one of those players with a way bigger army than he ever gets to field, and he usually makes really balanced, competitive lists, which means lots of stuff just sits on the shelf. Glad to hear your Penitent earned its points... maybe mine will do the same.

 MacPhail wrote:
Jancoran-- The Penitent actually belongs to the 'Nid player, and it remains a mystery to all of us. He doesn't play Sisters, so it sits on his display case shelf, and I've never run one. I probably wouldn't run a single one in other than a fluffy just-for-fun game like this; it seems only a handful of people run them at all, and even then only in multiples. But hey, double heavy flamers in a burn-the-bugs list seemed like the best opportunity to try it out, and maybe it will serve as a distraction carnifex of sorts. The Seraphim are mostly for Celestine, but if he really jams up the movement corridors with his gribblies as I know he can, it might be nice to take a risky drop next to something juicy or jump out early to secure a pinch point for my transports. Maybe I should squeeze points for a power axe as you say.

Drider-- Great photos... I'll be sure and get some to post if this game goes down. I think my opponent will ground his Flyrants in deference to my lack of AA, and to get even more little bugs as he's really committed to see just how many he can respawn. He's one of those players with a way bigger army than he ever gets to field, and he usually makes really balanced, competitive lists, which means lots of stuff just sits on the shelf. Glad to hear your Penitent earned its points... maybe mine will do the same.

I ran one in two tournaments back to back and won both tournaments. It wasn't BECAUSE of the Penitent engine, but it did its job well enough. I reserved it in every game and used it to whallop and clean up things. As enemy anti-tank ability was lesser or removed ahead of that time to an acceptable extent it did SOME work for me.

On the whole, definitely suffers so much because of iNIT but it actually is a good unit against some of the meta.

Penitent Engines are really good at what they do. The problem is the seldom get to do it as they lack mobility and are really hurt by Open topped.. I think more people would run them if they were Elites rather than Heavy Support and if they had a better profile, I'm in the camp who thinks they should be MCs.

Had a good game with Penitent engnes defending a Shrine at the weekend

So spinning off from thread about wargames models - these were found by dakka's Frozen Ocean!

http://vk.com/grishnakmodels





Now just need to work out how to get these models!

 Mr Morden wrote:
Had a good game with Penitent engnes defending a Shrine at the weekend

So spinning off from thread about wargames models - these were found by dakka's Frozen Ocean!

http://vk.com/grishnakmodels
Now just need to work out how to get these models!

Yeah, their website doesn't appear to work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
From Google Translate:

"Grishnak models a Russian studio, dedicated to modeling and simulation of miniatures.
All the works presented in the community are made to order or just a hobby, and are exploratory in nature.
+
+
+
Officially we do not "sell" thumbnails. For any questions please write to the PM.
Wishes when ordering the author's miniatures can obtain additional copies of these miniatures in the resin. In that case, if the description contains photographs value, it is - similar to the price for copying."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"
Pervyy otryad v serii War Maidens, kotoraya razrabatyvalas' kak al'ternativnyy variant armii Sisters of Battle. Otryad sostoit iz pyati sbornykh modeley na 25 mm podstavkakh. V dopolneniye k modelyam idut tri golovy bez shlemov, dva spetsial'nykh oruzhiya, shlem i kombi-oruzhiye serzhantu.
Dannaya rabota vylozhena "dlya primera". Stoimost' odnogo ekzemplyara dannogo otryada sostavila 1350 r.
The first unit in the series War Maidens, which was developed as an alternative army Sisters of Battle. The squad consists of five modular models by 25 mm supports. In addition to the models are three heads without helmets, two special weapon, helmet, combi-weapons sergeant.
This work laid out "for example." Cost of one copy of the order of 1,350 p."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Model №1 - consists of 8 parts. It may take special weapons or be altered in the squad sergeant."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If that's rubles, that's about 20 dollars.

thanks

So do we think this is Russian and in Rubles?

So with the new faqs about using last published thing for old/outdated models does this mean we can use droppods and the sob dreadnought?

It's not a dreadnought.

 pretre wrote:
It's not a dreadnought.

What do you mean?

There was a sob dreadnought long ago.

It's a penitent Engine. Different. =)

For once, Jancoran and I are in complete agreement.

I'm not talking about the penitent engine. There was a old named sob dreadnought.

Oberron wrote:
I'm not talking about the penitent engine. There was a old named sob dreadnought.

Source?

 pretre wrote:

Oberron wrote:
I'm not talking about the penitent engine. There was a old named sob dreadnought.

Source?

It was when GW still sold bits.

Interesting. That's the least official GW source I've seen though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Interesting. That's the least official GW source I've seen though.

Well... i never heard of this but let me say the following: There are no Sister of Battle Dreadnoughts. Rumors to the contrary are treason.

Posted on the bolterandchainsword forum
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322048-sororitas-dreadnoughts/

If you're playing a casual game and your opponent is ok with it you can figuratively do anything you want.

With that being said there's no way this would fly in any competitive or semi competitive environment. The profile is so old it doesn't even have Hull Points on it's stat line, it does have Structure points but it's covered up by an unfortunately placed picture.


D'oh, i was a bit to slow on the post!

And I thought my Eprhael Stern mini was rare, no idea she ended up in a dreadnought

 pretre wrote:
Interesting. That's the least official GW source I've seen though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Interesting. That's the least official GW source I've seen though.

Yeah its pretty ancient but its still from an official gw source. One of the super old white dwarfs. I'm surprised not many other sob people know about it.


As for competitive or semi competitive? Oh yeah just way to old for it to be used even if it is over costed. I wish I could find the other picture of it that showed the structure points.

I rather like the new rules for the shipping containers. 40pts gets you a lot of stuff including giving torrent to flamer weapons who are next to the flue drums. If you set it up right you can get torrenting flamers re-rolling 1's to wound (ammo dump) with a 5+ cover save and 2 free storm bolters.

Or for 40 points you can get Promethium Relay Pipes that do the same thing only better.

I really like the models for the containers but my group will probably just use them as basic terrain with no special rules. The game gets pretty bloated when you decide to use every buildings specific rules (we have lots of the sector imperialis stuff too).

I know SoB are an imperial army so it's good for us but I'm sure many of us have second non-imperial armies and I'm wondering if it irks anyone else when IoM specific bonuses come with some of these terrain sets. Specific example of this is the D6 table for the container, I think a 3 is +1 Ld for IoM units within 6" right? I wouldn't care if they made xenos terrain too but apart from the tau wall they don't so it just feels like IoM gets more special little snowflake stuff from their terrain and xenos or heretic armies get... well they can stand on it I suppose. I know these rules aren't game-breaking or anything but it's more the principal that if you walk up to a shipping container as a xenos army rolling 1 is bad, 2-3 are nothing of note and 4-6 actually do something whereas if you are IoM then 3+ you get a bonus. As a matter of principle it just feels like favoritism and doesn't sit well with me. Anyone else feel this way?

I remember that Dreadnought, I knew a guy that had it, he was the first person I know who had Sisters and I remember them being surprisingly good even in their early days.

For anyone interested, I'm working on a bunch of Formations for our Ladies of Killing Things With Fire, not a rewrite, just supplemental to the existing Codex. Hoping some people with experience playing Sororitas (and Witch Hunters; tried to add back some of that goodness) will have some helpful input: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/692166.page#8682181

Well, I didn't get my anticipated burn-the-bugs match-up, although both I and the 'Nid player are committed to making it happen. Instead I took a very narrow (literally a single die roll) loss to Dark Eldar in a Relic mission. Started off strong, then got forcibly de-meched and had to cross a ton of open ground against a surprisingly shooty army. I need to look up some units that were new to me, and then maybe a quick write-up and some questions. Hopefully your Saturdays saw the Emperor's justice more forcibly dispensed than mine did!

Hey all, I've using sisters for a while, and I've always heard exorcists are kinda a go to heavy support choice. But I've been having some trouble with them. I was wondering if you could point me towards what they perform the best against (general types of units not specifics) and what I could replace them with to be worthwhile if they still keep failing me.

They work well against anything elite and vehicles.

Alternative choices are the Rets with Bastion (always fun) or Drop Pod Rets with HF.

I see, with the bastion rets do you deploy inside or on the battlements? Also, is there a place for MM rets?

Inside. And not really, unless you can find a source of relentless or S&P.

Exos are best in groups so the die rolls even out a bit, although you'll still roll three ones at some point. Watch for the T4 tipping point, because IDing multi-wound models or those with RP or FNP from across the table is good times. AV13 fire magnets are useful even if they don't do much offensively.

But I am loving HF Rets in a Rhino... I just added my second unit of them and they smoked 700 points of Dark Eldar in a single turn in the game I played this weekend (my opponent double-parked his Raiders). If you can stomach $14 per model, I'd go that route.

 MacPhail wrote:
Well, I didn't get my anticipated burn-the-bugs match-up, although both I and the 'Nid player are committed to making it happen. Instead I took a very narrow (literally a single die roll) loss to Dark Eldar in a Relic mission. Started off strong, then got forcibly de-meched and had to cross a ton of open ground against a surprisingly shooty army. I need to look up some units that were new to me, and then maybe a quick write-up and some questions. Hopefully your Saturdays saw the Emperor's justice more forcibly dispensed than mine did!

I was set to play Sisters of Battle but then my opponent wanted to face the tournament army i have been getting ready for Tau Empire so i switched gears. The Emperors will was on his side of the table in this contest. Sounds like you had a close game. Dark eldar can be EXTREMELY shooty.!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Aegis1650 wrote:
Hey all, I've using sisters for a while, and I've always heard exorcists are kinda a go to heavy support choice. But I've been having some trouble with them. I was wondering if you could point me towards what they perform the best against (general types of units not specifics) and what I could replace them with to be worthwhile if they still keep failing me.

I replaced mine with Dominion, who are more reliable deliverers of the Emperors Penitence.

You can't replace Exorcists with Dominions; they are different FOC slots.

 pretre wrote:
You can't replace Exorcists with Dominions; they are different FOC slots.

But you can pay points for Dominions instead of Exorcists, replacing them in your overall list.

Rihgu wrote:

 pretre wrote:
You can't replace Exorcists with Dominions; they are different FOC slots.

But you can pay points for Dominions instead of Exorcists, replacing them in your overall list.

Obviously, although there's only so many things to take in a pure list. I always take 3 exos and 3 doms, so it's not like they are replacing anything.

Speaking of a pure list, I personally have...... issues....... with unique characters, and avoid them like the plague. This of coarse leaves me with just canonesses. I would be interested in seeing your guys' loadouts on her. I typically run rosarius, inferno pistol, evisorator and MoO (sometime I don't when I run multiples but that simply because I like duplicity, easier to remember). I've run into issues with that loadout being lackluster, namely the whole gw trying to push her as a beat stick sisters captain equivalent...... but she is just SOOOOOOO woefully outmatched in any kinda challenge it's depressing.

 pretre wrote:
You can't replace Exorcists with Dominions; they are different FOC slots.

The slot is irrelevant. The role is what Im after.

Aegis1650 wrote:
Speaking of a pure list, I personally have...... issues....... with unique characters, and avoid them like the plague. This of coarse leaves me with just canonesses. I would be interested in seeing your guys' loadouts on her. I typically run rosarius, inferno pistol, evisorator and MoO (sometime I don't when I run multiples but that simply because I like duplicity, easier to remember). I've run into issues with that loadout being lackluster, namely the whole gw trying to push her as a beat stick sisters captain equivalent...... but she is just SOOOOOOO woefully outmatched in any kinda challenge it's depressing.

Throw her in a unit with 2 Priests, and give 1 of the Priests the Litanies of Faith relic - now she's getting guaranteed Saving Throw and To Wound re-rolls in combat, plus Hatred and Fearless. It's not like she becomes the most amazing melee unit in the game, but it makes her pretty decent at tanking hits (re-rollable 4+ invulnerable and Eternal Warrior). And S6 AP2 that effectively has Shred is pretty decent to swing back with. The biggest issue is finding a way to get them into combat - you're pretty much stuck with disembarking from a Rhino/Repressor and hoping they can survive the next shooting phase. Land Raiders from Codex: Inquisition are another option, but that comes with all the downsides of using a Land Raider.

Also finding a unit to run her with is key - Celestians/Command Squads are an option purely because you'll be majority WS4 (helps reduce the number of attacks they receive back, since alot of things won't be hitting on a 3+ like they would against Battle Sister Squads). But Crusaders and Death Cult Assassins are your best bet though, either in an Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave or from Codex: Inquisition, so you have bulk power swords and the Crusaders tanking stuff on their re-rollable Storm Shield saves. Black Templar Crusader squads can be a fun option too, plenty of Power/Carapace armour bodies to act as ablative wounds and a re-rollable 3+ is pretty neat in combat if the enemy doesn't have AP3

 Jancoran wrote:

 pretre wrote:
You can't replace Exorcists with Dominions; they are different FOC slots.

The slot is irrelevant. The role is what Im after.

Except it isn't. Unless you're running double CAD, you can't take more Dominions by skipping Exorcists.

The double CAD, six Dominion rush list is real!

Call it, Domino Rally.

you can do it at 1400 points if you take a couple of 70 point ( BSS, 5 girls, HB) units as your mandatory troops and use bare bones Canoness'. Or you can fit it into 1600 if you kit out the troops with flamers and rhinos and a bit of kit on the Canoness'.

Okay, finally made time for a battle report on the weekend's game. These are informal club games with a learner-friendly attitude, and I drew the learner this week (not the veteran bug swarm... soon, though!). My opponent was a teenager (good to see, in these days of 40-year-old gamers!) with a newly acquired Dark Eldar army. I should say up front that major mistakes were made to the point where I'm not totally willing to own the loss he dealt me-- he misunderstood his weapon ranges to the point where I took way more AP2 fire than I should have, which allowed him to wash me off the objective in the later turns. His wargear was also pretty out there... he bought a clone field for his succubus, had both of his Venoms deep strike even though only one had a character with access to a webway portal, etc. I thought I had the win in the bag early on and was surprised when it turned on me late in the game, but once I downloaded a pirated copy of his codex to scrutinize the details, I realized why. Nothing against this player... he's learning the game and a new army, but I'll have to pay closer attention in future match-ups.

We played The Relic on a Vanguard deployment. Terrain was heavily weighted toward one corner, which he selected, giving himself several multi-story ruins and leaving me largely in the open. He went first and I failed to seize. We played through Turn 6 and ended with nobody claiming the Relic; he won with 2 points (First Blood, Linebreaker) to my 1 (Linebreaker).

His army, as much as I've been able to recall/reconstruct:

I brought a twist on my usual 2000 points:

Exciting experimental things for me this game were the Canoness on Quad Gun, the ADL, and the Inquisitor with Liber. I reserved a single Dominion for a counterstrike and scouted the other two forward in the direction of the Relic, thinking they might survive long enough to at least move it closer to my lines. I also scouted the Inquisitor with a squad of HF Rets, eyeballing his Raiders. Game on.

He rushed my line with all of the Raiders, 2 on my left flank and 1 on my right. Not knowing about rending heavy flamers, he basically parallel parked a pair of them opposite the Ret Rhino and an Immo. The Immo drew all the fire and survived. On the right flank, he de-meched the HF Rets and the Doms, leaving wrecks blocking my lane of approach to the Relic. In the center, Dark Lances popped another Rhino and took a point off an Exorcist.

My Turn 1 suffered from Night Fighting and I didn't get anything at full range with the Exos or Immos. The heavy flamers more than made up for it, though. The Inquisitor's scouted group on the left flank pulled up and disembarked right next to the parallel-parked Raiders, eliminating a squad of CC Wyches and half a squad of Warriors. The Immo took down one Raider and the Doms finished off the Warrior squad, leaving just one empty Raider on that flank. He said I got 700 points before they had a chance to act, which I felt a little guilty about, given that he's a younger, newer player. On the right flank, the HF Rets riding (now walking) with Jacobus roasted all but 1 Warrior inside the Raider before the Doms crashed the transport, leaving a single enemy infantry model on that flank. With both flanks under control and the center well-covered by Exos and bolters and well-defended by the Aegis, I was feeling pretty good, even though I had lost some mobility and the approach to the Relic was getting pretty cluttered.

On his Turn 2, my Interceptor Quad Gun forced the Voidraven to snap shot, which was great for neutralizing the blast weapons, but other than that, the turn was all him. His Scourges started positioning for a run at the Relic and his Venoms arrived via deep strike in my deployment zone (even though I'm not sure who provided the second webway portal). Here's where he started misreading his ranges. He fired not only dark lances, but also blasters from the ruined towers well back in his deployment zones, taking out 2 more Rhinos and forcing their squads to footslog across open ground toward the Relic. He also tore up the HF Rets riding with the Inquisitor, although he didn't get their transport. I didn't question it at the time because I'm used to my scouted units drawing tons of fire... they're often within 24" by Turn 2, and often the only viable target for lots of enemy units. But there's no way I was within 18", the actual range of the blasters, and so I was taking S8 AP2 fire at about four times the rate I should have at that range.

My Turn 2 was unremarkable except that the HF Rets and Inquisitor mounted up again and went to hunt down some Scourges before their mobility could get them onto the Relic. On the right flank, I took out the lone warrior and started positioning for my own shot at the Relic, which was now blocked off by some terrain and three of my wrecked tanks. I had the remnants of four different squads milling around looking for a clear path. The heavy bolter Rets and some of the backfield campers unloaded on the deep striking Incubi and Succubus, but the clone field (2+ invulnerable that lasts until it fails) took all the hits... but I'm not sure how he bought that for the Succubus based on my reading of the codex.

Turns 3-6: I got one of the Scourge squads with the heavy flamers on the left flank, but he got all but one of those Rets with massive amounts of S8 AP2 fire coming from extreme range. She dove back into the Rhino and crept through the ruins looking for a late run at the Relic. The Quad Gun got the Voidraven. His Incubi and Succubus got the HB Rets, both Exos (I should have done a better job of screening the tanks with my infantry), and the Canoness. The reserve Doms showed up and failed to penetrate the clone field on the warlord before they died, leaving their Immo to claim Linebreaker. I got the second squad of Scourges with the Exos before they died, good old S8 eliminating their FNP saves, so the Relic was mine for the taking.

My footsloggers tried to position themselves to make a grab for it, some taking cover saves where they could, but they were unable to stand up to all the fire coming across the board-- even though he had only a couple of dark lances that were actually in range. The backfield infantry eventually abandoned their scene to make an ill-fated dash across the open; the Venoms cut them down. My logic was that if I threw enough separate units at the Relic and made just a handful of 6+ invulnerable saves, he wouldn't be able to eliminate everything, but I was wrong. At the top of turn 6, he gunned down the only unit that could have made it during my turn, and the game ended.

I won't dwell on the mistaken ranges beyond saying that I attempted more 6+ invulnerable saves this game than in any three games I've played despite never coming within the blasters' 18" range. I talked to the other player and he owned his error and apologized, and I'll own my responsibility, too... know your enemy ('s codex). As for the army list errors, I think I'll propose an exchange of printed lists at games, or just start reading pirated codices in my free time in hopes of internalizing enough detail to know errors when they arise.

Other takeaways: Dark Eldar are surprisingly shooty, and I won't misjudge them as a CC army again. I think the Canoness/Quad Gun/ADL paid off, and I'll be taking them again. In this club setting, almost every army I take will present targets for it from Turn 1, and Interceptor is a great equalizer. Also, rending heavy flamers that scout are just that much more fun than the regular kind, so the Inquisitor+Liber earned himself at least a few more trial battles. I learned some important lessons about not ending a movement phase with shoulder-to-shoulder transports if there's something you're trying to get to on the other side. I missed Celestine and the Seraphim is this mobility-friendly mission, but I was happy with the 2000 points I chose.

As always, comments and criticisms (and condolences) are welcome.

Drider wrote:
The double CAD, six Dominion rush list is real!

Call it, Domino Rally.

you can do it at 1400 points if you take a couple of 70 point ( BSS, 5 girls, HB) units as your mandatory troops and use bare bones Canoness'. Or you can fit it into 1600 if you kit out the troops with flamers and rhinos and a bit of kit on the Canoness'.

Oh, I know. I was just commenting on the idea that you could just swap your exos for doms.

 pretre wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 pretre wrote:
You can't replace Exorcists with Dominions; they are different FOC slots.

The slot is irrelevant. The role is what Im after.

Except it isn't. Unless you're running double CAD, you can't take more Dominions by skipping Exorcists.

Are you suggesting we never take a second CAD?

Drider wrote:
The double CAD, six Dominion rush list is real!

Call it, Domino Rally.

you can do it at 1400 points if you take a couple of 70 point ( BSS, 5 girls, HB) units as your mandatory troops and use bare bones Canoness'. Or you can fit it into 1600 if you kit out the troops with flamers and rhinos and a bit of kit on the Canoness'.

I freaking love this name

This totally needs to be a thing

Yip. Featured this in my blog a few months ago. Got tired of Wraith Knights, so I actually build the dual Dominion list and can actually field it.

 Jancoran wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 pretre wrote:
You can't replace Exorcists with Dominions; they are different FOC slots.

The slot is irrelevant. The role is what Im after.

Except it isn't. Unless you're running double CAD, you can't take more Dominions by skipping Exorcists.

Are you suggesting we never take a second CAD?

No, but if you're taking double cad, you're dropping a lot more than just exorcists to get more dominions.

 pretre wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 pretre wrote:
You can't replace Exorcists with Dominions; they are different FOC slots.

The slot is irrelevant. The role is what Im after.

Except it isn't. Unless you're running double CAD, you can't take more Dominions by skipping Exorcists.

Are you suggesting we never take a second CAD?

No, but if you're taking double cad, you're dropping a lot more than just exorcists to get more dominions.

Not if you're already tasking four troops. So not really.

Point is the same. Dominions are better answers than exorcists to the tank/heavy duty problem.

I prefer to mix my Dom's with Exorcists. Double CAD for six units of Dom's isn't the only way (or best IMO) to play Sisters.

TBH i don't see this as a reflection on dominions but more a reflection of the randomness of exorcists.

Drider wrote:
TBH i don't see this as a reflection on dominions but more a reflection of the randomness of exorcists.

Agreed. I keep bringing Exos because when they perform well-- roughly 1 game in every 3 or 4, and it only takes a single round of rolling all 5s and 6s to shock an opponent-- they draw extra fire for several matchups on reputation alone and AV13 soaks it up pretty well.

I have 4 Immolators, but only 3 full squads of melta Doms, although I guess I could go back to 3 specials per squad. Usually when I bring a second CAD, it's to get Seraphim for Celestine to roll with and to get HF Rets to advance behind the wall of scouting melta, not to get extra Doms.

So, on the 26th, one of my LGS is hosting a Doubles Tournament, with different scenarios for each round. The first round will be with 500 point lists, while the second round will feature 1250 point lists per player. I already know that the round 2 game will be Eternal War/Relic + Maelstrom/Deadlock, with primary points being given for getting the Relic and secondaries for achieving Tactical Objectives.

One of my friends and I have already signed up, with his Imperial Guard and my Sororitas. My teammate is thinking of running something as follows:

Yarrick
10 Veterans- 2 plasma guns, flamer, Sgt w. power maul, Grenadiers
-Chimera
10 Veterans- 2 plasma guns, flamer, Sgt w. power maul, Grenadiers
-Chimera
10 Veterans- 2 meltaguns, flamer, Sgt w. power maul, Grenadiers
-Chimera
Manticore
Baneblade- sponson lascannons


I, meanwhile, have been trying to figure out what kind of list I'll be fielding to support this "Baneblade and Friends" list. I've come up with two of the following lists, the first of which tries to maximize mobile scoring units and firepower:

Celestine- 135
5 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer, SS w. combi-flamer- 85
-Immolator w. twin-linked multi-melta & dozer blades- 65
5 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer, SS w. combi-flamer- 85
-Immolator w. twin-linked multi-melta & dozer blades- 65
5 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer, SS w. combi-flamer- 85
-Immolator w. twin-linked multi-melta & dozer blades- 65
5 Dominions- 4 meltaguns- 105
-Immolator- twin-linked heavy flamer- 60
6 Seraphim- 2 hand flamers, SS w. meltabombs- 125
Exorcist- 125
Exorcist- 125
Exorcist- 125

Total: 1250


List #2, on the other hand, gives me a little more in the way of durability, and an Inquisitor with servo skulls to reduce scatter on blasts/counter White Scar scouting shenanigans:


Celestine- 135
5 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer, SS w. combi-flamer- 85
-Immolator w. twin-linked multi-melta & dozer blades- 65
5 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer, SS w. combi-flamer- 85
-Immolator w. twin-linked multi-melta & dozer blades- 65
5 Dominions- 4 meltaguns- 105
-Repressor- 75
5 Dominions- 4 meltaguns- 105
-Repressor- 75
8 Seraphim- 2 hand flamers, SS w. meltabombs- 155
Exorcist- 125
Exorcist- 125
Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor- power armour, 3 servo-skulls- 42

Total: 1242



Any thoughts on either list (and on the Guard list too, while we're at it?) Also, any recommendations on dealing with the following:

-Flyers (especially Flyrants, ooh how I hate them)
-Psyker bombs/Librarius Conclave deathstars
-White Scars (again, how I hate them)

Criticism, feedback, and above all advice, are appreciated.

Drider wrote:
TBH i don't see this as a reflection on dominions but more a reflection of the randomness of exorcists.

I'll buy that but it makes it no less true. The random nature of the Exorcist and the reality that it can and often is one-shot'd by the crazy number of alpha strikes people can and do bring now is highly relevant.

Weather or not your bringing an Exo or Dominoes, if your opponent wants them dead on the alpha then they'll be dead on the alpha. With that being said one of the few ways to combat "the crazy number of alpha strikes people can and do bring" is to break up the points to go hard MSU and points wise an Exo is the cheaper option.

If you want to avoid losing stuff during an Alpha strike you can always outflank the domms.

Yes I know scouting is usually better but I've had a lot of success with outflanking

Also don't forget to try and deploy your exo behind los blocking terrain. First turn move them 6" and fire at full effect.

Drider wrote:
Weather or not your bringing an Exo or Dominoes, if your opponent wants them dead on the alpha then they'll be dead on the alpha. With that being said one of the few ways to combat "the crazy number of alpha strikes people can and do bring" is to break up the points to go hard MSU and points wise an Exo is the cheaper option.

I would say that you have a fair amount to say about what the enemy's options are. That's the nice thing about Dominions. They dont just stand and wait for the Riptide Wing to kill them. They go kill the Riptide Wing and hide behind rhinos to weather the return fire as best they are able. So minimizing those squad sizes means minimizing how much they CAN weather. A min/max squad will just die. So i dont know what you EXACTLY mean when you say MSU but i have usually taken 8 dominion to squad to give them some ablative ability to keep thoese special weapons firing and it has paid off a lot of the time. Smaller units never get to fire twice so even though you know those woulds are there purely for show after they get out, they are kind of important.

I have used my Dominion a pretty fair amount and while I've done the six Dominion list, I split the difference now a little bit. I use one Exorcist (Red herring and hey, the sun shines, even on a dogs butt, once in a while). and three Dominion Squads. Sems to give me JUST enough of a threat that they want to drop in and kill the Exorcist. but the singular exorcist gives up little enough that I ultimately am not sad to see it go. there are ALWAYS casualties in 40K. the trick is to try and make sure you control which one and how many. The exorcist serves a purpose in that way. If the enemy has no reach or ignores it, it will probably do work eventually. it needs to keep firing for its true value to get expressed though so taking more of them isn't i nthe immediate cards. i may find a list that makes it make more sense later but not for now.

 Jancoran wrote:
A min/max squad will just die. So i dont know what you EXACTLY mean when you say MSU

I don't know how to reply to that MSU comment without coming off as condescending and I apologize in advance.

I mean Multiple Small Units, not just small in model count but small in points cost as well. The minimum amount of models and points to make the unit function effectively. Yes they get die if they're targeted but that's the point, any excess wounds are wasted and because you've spent the minimum amount of points on the unit you can put the points into getting another unit. If you take a unit of 10 models and they get attacked by something that does 10 wounds then they all die. But if you have 2 units of 5 models and that same something that does 10 wounds attacks one of those units then it dies, but you still have 1 unit of 5 models remaining. The points you spend putting those extra 3 models into a unit of dominions is not much and, yes, it does give the individual unit a bit of staying power. But if you take those extra 36 points and you add it up across how many units you could have hand another entirely separate unit. The same argument extends to Dominions Vs Exorcists if you are looking at them doing a similar job. The way I play my Dominions is 165 points (5 girls, 4 melta and an Immolator) Vs an Exo for 125 points. 40 points is not much but it adds quickly across multiple units.

 Jancoran wrote:
there are ALWAYS casualties in 40K. the trick is to try and make sure you control which one and how many.

As you say there are always casualties in 40k and the trick is to control those casualties. The way you're talking about doing it is to spend a few extra points into each unit as ablative wounds to give those individual units more staying power. The way i'm talking about doing it is to build it into your list by taking as many small units as possible. So that when a unit dies it has the minimum possible impact to the total points cost of your army. Both of these strategies is equally as valid as the other and comes down to personal preference.

I knew what MSU meant. However, delivering the threat costs 40 already( the rhino) to optimize its threat. Committing to another unit means that also. So only if you dont wish to take a rhino is it actually cheaper not to defend them. So youre not SAVING 40 points, you're just recommitting them in a different way. If the enemy does not or cannot kill the 8, then they are that much more dangerous... and when the enemy does fire at any of the MSU units, it loses its fangs that much more quickly. So MSU isnt a bad idea but unlike some armies, we PAY for our transposrts. An extra three bolters and grenades isnt nothing and if not killed they are another round of the same. So its just a matter of whether you want the rhino... or the unit.

The unit without the rhino is not nearly as good but... i spose youd end up spending them on ranga and the xorcist is all that hs snge so youe back to square one.

At no point did anyone say anything about not giving them a dedicated transport.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
So, on the 26th, one of my LGS is hosting a Doubles Tournament, with different scenarios for each round. The first round will be with 500 point lists, while the second round will feature 1250 point lists per player. I already know that the round 2 game will be Eternal War/Relic + Maelstrom/Deadlock, with primary points being given for getting the Relic and secondaries for achieving Tactical Objectives.

One of my friends and I have already signed up, with his Imperial Guard and my Sororitas. My teammate is thinking of running something as follows:

Yarrick
10 Veterans- 2 plasma guns, flamer, Sgt w. power maul, Grenadiers
-Chimera
10 Veterans- 2 plasma guns, flamer, Sgt w. power maul, Grenadiers
-Chimera
10 Veterans- 2 meltaguns, flamer, Sgt w. power maul, Grenadiers
-Chimera
Manticore
Baneblade- sponson lascannons


I, meanwhile, have been trying to figure out what kind of list I'll be fielding to support this "Baneblade and Friends" list. I've come up with two of the following lists, the first of which tries to maximize mobile scoring units and firepower:

Celestine- 135
5 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer, SS w. combi-flamer- 85
-Immolator w. twin-linked multi-melta & dozer blades- 65
5 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer, SS w. combi-flamer- 85
-Immolator w. twin-linked multi-melta & dozer blades- 65
5 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer, SS w. combi-flamer- 85
-Immolator w. twin-linked multi-melta & dozer blades- 65
5 Dominions- 4 meltaguns- 105
-Immolator- twin-linked heavy flamer- 60
6 Seraphim- 2 hand flamers, SS w. meltabombs- 125
Exorcist- 125
Exorcist- 125
Exorcist- 125

Total: 1250


List #2, on the other hand, gives me a little more in the way of durability, and an Inquisitor with servo skulls to reduce scatter on blasts/counter White Scar scouting shenanigans:


Celestine- 135
5 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer, SS w. combi-flamer- 85
-Immolator w. twin-linked multi-melta & dozer blades- 65
5 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer, SS w. combi-flamer- 85
-Immolator w. twin-linked multi-melta & dozer blades- 65
5 Dominions- 4 meltaguns- 105
-Repressor- 75
5 Dominions- 4 meltaguns- 105
-Repressor- 75
8 Seraphim- 2 hand flamers, SS w. meltabombs- 155
Exorcist- 125
Exorcist- 125
Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor- power armour, 3 servo-skulls- 42

Total: 1242



Any thoughts on either list (and on the Guard list too, while we're at it?) Also, any recommendations on dealing with the following:

-Flyers (especially Flyrants, ooh how I hate them)
-Psyker bombs/Librarius Conclave deathstars
-White Scars (again, how I hate them)

Criticism, feedback, and above all advice, are appreciated.

I would go with list two. The Inquisitor adds more to the army. I'd also make him Xenos and give him the good grenades.

For the guard, I'd keep Yarrick but convert two of the veterans squads into a platoon with a blob squad of 30-50 guardsmen and 5 power axes. Put Yarrick and the Inquistor in there. That lets you bubble wrap the Baneblade more effectively when needed and gives you solid backfield line.

PanzerLeader wrote:

I would go with list two. The Inquisitor adds more to the army. I'd also make him Xenos and give him the good grenades.

For the guard, I'd keep Yarrick but convert two of the veterans squads into a platoon with a blob squad of 30-50 guardsmen and 5 power axes. Put Yarrick and the Inquistor in there. That lets you bubble wrap the Baneblade more effectively when needed and gives you solid backfield line.

With a blob squad like that try to find at least 65 points for 2 priests and give one litanies. 50 man guard blob with zealot for re-roll hits on the first round, hymns for re-roll wounds and re-roll saves.

Drider wrote:
At no point did anyone say anything about not giving them a dedicated transport.

I know. I think you're missing what i am saying. No biggee.

I understood what you said, It was a reiteration of what had already been said about spending a few extra points to protect 40 points of special weapons versus using those extra few points across several units to squeeze in another unit as a platform to take more special/heavy weapons. which didn't need a reply because i feel like I'd already given my opinion in a clear and concise way.

You segued into to talking about about artificial model restraints in our hypothetical scenario, "So only if you dont wish to take a rhino" I automatically equated this to mean 'what if i don't have X rhinos, i only have X-1', which I disregarded out of hand because it's a non-issue. From there into transport costs, which for a army that's widely accepted as best when played as a Mech army, most people would automatically factor in the cost of a transport into the unit cost when building a list. Then you started getting mad about the Gladius strike force. That last line was borderline incomprehensible, but i took the gist of it to mean 'if you were buying a unit without a transport it would probably be a ranged unit, HB/Melta/MM - BSS/Rets/CS or an Exorcist as that is all the ranged synergy we have and then you're back to square one'

On a related side note. Most of the meaning in communication between people happens non-verbally via tone of voice, body language and facial clues. Only 7% of meaning is in the words that are said. Without these cues it can be very hard to convey (when speaking) and interpret (when listening) the meaning of pure text format communication. When you type a word in full upper case you may think you are putting emphasis into what you're saying but it can easily be interpreted as holding hostility.

I... never got mad about gladius strike forces. Your confusi g me with someone else. Its an observation that we cannot just buy another unit of Dominion with the savings because to do so involves also taking the rhino to optimize it, which isnt free for us. So youre not trully saving points, just reallocating them and that was the point in a nutshell.

Again, i think something has been lost in translation. Lose zero sleep over it. I know I wont. Lets move on.

 Jancoran wrote:
I knew what MSU meant. However, delivering the threat costs 40 already( the rhino) to optimize its threat. Committing to another unit means that also. So only if you dont wish to take a rhino is it actually cheaper not to defend them. So youre not SAVING 40 points, you're just recommitting them in a different way. If the enemy does not or cannot kill the 8, then they are that much more dangerous... and when the enemy does fire at any of the MSU units, it loses its fangs that much more quickly. So MSU isnt a bad idea but unlike some armies, we PAY for our transposrts. An extra three bolters and grenades isnt nothing and if not killed they are another round of the same. So its just a matter of whether you want the rhino... or the unit.

The unit without the rhino is not nearly as good but... i spose youd end up spending them on ranga and the xorcist is all that hs snge so youe back to square one.

Maybe not mad, but certainly emphatic.

No. Just making the entirely relevant point. I wont tell someone that there is only one way to skin a cat. I will try to explain my point of view with as much conviction as any other. And in this case, my army went from having ZERO armor before the new codex to containing nine in the new one. And with the change in power curve, we just dont have a lot of credible alternatives to buying TIME with Rhino shells and ablative wounds.

Thats what I have found which is why I do it. But again... There are many ways to skin a cat. Im just explaining one of them.