"Nobody was playing orks anyway" is not a good supporting piece for your argument.

You can scratch built meganobz using plasticard, green stuff and spared bitz form the nobz kit but also other boxes.

With approx 100 euro I've made 3 BWs, 2 trukks, 7 mek gunz, 9 killa kanz, a deff dread, a gork/morkanaut and 5 meganobz, all with original dimensions and I've got enough plasticard to made other projects (I have in mind a plane and another naut, but I need bitz for 10ish more euro). I could have saved more money but I wanted several original bitz to make those units exactly WYSIWYG like official KMKs barrels.

The deathguard could be a very cheap army, like primaris. Without the starting box its cost would be quite higher.

Not a valid argument. I don't want to scratch-build models, no other army has to scratch-build models in order to play. All my models are legit GW models and all of them safe for some metal characters and trukks were build from their sprue by me.

And as I said, you can start an entire army made of legit GW models for the cost of just that formation.

Waaagh! Ghazghkull was nothing but a cash grab to force ork players to buy more models than anyone had, no matter how large their collection already was. There is absolutely no excuse for that.


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 Blackie wrote:
The deathguard could be a very cheap army, like primaris. Without the starting box its cost would be quite higher.

Dark Imperium is 125€, a start collection box for any other army is 65€. Outside of that you're paying regular GW prices.

That's some odd logic you're using. Not many people had tons of razorbacks before battle co hit. Noone had heaps of scatbikes before they became a thing. Noone had brimstone horrors. Like at all.
If you get something good, it's just wrong to say: "it's bad because i don't have the models and don't want to obtain them". If something, we're actually in a good spot with scratchbuilding. The fact that YOU don't want to do it, doesn't mean it's a bad option. It's your problem.

The slight difference is that the battle company allowed razorbacks, rhinos and drop pods from your collection be used, plus you could simply chose to not use the free transport options and still gain formation benefits.

Bully boyz was buy 3 units 5+ (not three like regular unit size) or feth off. Even if you had 10 metal MANz from previous editions, you were not able to field that formation by just using your collection. The only goal of this formation, just like any other formation in that book, was to force players to buy more models and in this case they accidentally made it good enough to work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
The fact that YOU don't want to do it, doesn't mean it's a bad option. It's your problem.

In my are, it was common practice at GW stores to ban any model not made from more than 50% GW bits, getting half your army banned from public events is a good reason not to scratch-build.

But if you have no problem with getting ripped off by the previous GW management, I'm not going to tell you to feel miserable.

Yeah, we don't usually face such problems cause there are no GW franchise stores in here. Just people who trade their stuff alongside other games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TedNugent wrote:
"Nobody was playing orks anyway" is not a good supporting piece for your argument.

well, orks weren't a point and click army. You got to not only create a counter-meta list but also use tactics to win and even so, you were not guaranteed to win. And that's why orks have lost their popularity since 5-th ed. Hence why, a lot of good deals for those who want them.

 Jidmah wrote:
Not a valid argument. I don't want to scratch-build models, no other army has to scratch-build models in order to play. All my models are legit GW models and all of them safe for some metal characters and trukks were build from their sprue by me.

I respect your point of view but the argument is quite valid for a lot of players. Collecting orks have never been something like other factions, conversions and customization are the among the main reasons why a lot o people start collecting the green skins. I'm not even interested in armies that can't be highly customized, I want them to be unique and 100% mine, not identical to other players' ones. Sometimes conversions are nice also because you may not like the original models: I hate the weirdboy and stormboyz for example and I've made my own ones converting a couple of nobz and adding scratch built rockets to regular boyz.

We don't have to scratch build models, but scratch building models allows you to save money and to have a unique army. You can do that with other armies: for example I've made tons of coven stuff for my drukhari collection since I couldn't stand monopose talos or grotesques, I wanted them to be all different to each other.

Outside GW stores I've never seen or heard about shops or clubs that don't allow conversions or scratch built models at their tables. Of course they should be as close as possible to the original models in terms of dimensions and loadout, but I'd rather play or play against an army with tons of conversions than armies with 100% plastic GW but lots of proxies and/or "count as".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

Dark Imperium is 125€, a start collection box for any other army is 65€. Outside of that you're paying regular GW prices.

Only half is death guard. And the 62.5 death guard half is quite bigger than a start collecting while being cheaper.

Not really. You pretty get much the same as from the ork box. Instead of the LoC you get a pain boy, instead of the blightbringer you get lootas/ burnas, plague marines instead of nobz, pox walkers instead of boyz and the drone instead of a deff dread. If you consider that start collecting boxes contain real sets and not mono-pose models without options, DI is not much cheaper than those boxes.
The only thing that really makes DI DG a great deal is that the content actually makes a great coherent army, which cannot be said for most start collecting boxes.

Since when did lootas/ Burnas come in the SC box? The Dark Imperium death guard portion is a hell of a better deal that a SC box. 3 characters, 7 plague marines, blight drone, like 20 pox walkers. The ork SC box is 1 painboy 5 nobz 10 boys and a deff dread. Sure the deff dread makes up for a lot of the box contents but you still need a hell of a lot more Orks to get to the same points level as the DG and the SC box is 80$ here while I can eBay the DG portion of dark imperium new on sprue for 60$
Edit:

They are mono pose which sorta blows, but it is a better starting point than Orks unfortunately. Also Gratz to the hero’s who can plasticard everything.... I cannot. I’ll stick to kitbash

 Jidmah wrote:
The slight difference is that the battle company allowed razorbacks, rhinos and drop pods from your collection be used, plus you could simply chose to not use the free transport options and still gain formation benefits.

Bully boyz was buy 3 units 5+ (not three like regular unit size) or feth off. Even if you had 10 metal MANz from previous editions, you were not able to field that formation by just using your collection. The only goal of this formation, just like any other formation in that book, was to force players to buy more models and in this case they accidentally made it good enough to work.

And nobodyt had dozen+ razorback before. They had to buy models as well. Bohoo.

And again you can buy cheaper meganobz as well even if you don't want to scratch build. Big whopedoo.

And hey everything GW does is cash grab. No surprise there. There's nothing they don't do as cash grab. 8th ed codexes are cash grabs. Whole 8th ed was cash grab actually. First let's hike point costs up making point levels go up. Then release codex with free bonus rules and huge point costs forcing players to buy new models to maintain new 2k standard. Oh and shuffle up balance around making old armies obsolete(my IG army had to be pretty much rebuilt from scratch with the coming of 8th ed just for example...And 8th ed ork codex is going to require heavy purchases as well)

If you insist on buying GW models you get ripped off by GW. New or old irrelevant. GW is out there to rip you off from your money. You either accept it or get models elsewhere.

So. We had 1500 pts tournament here. I think I posted my list before but basically 3x30 boyz, 25 stormboyz, 2x10 boyz, 12 gretchin, 3xKMK, 2 warboss, 2 weirboy, dakkajet.

I played 3 shooty armies. First ultramarines with 3 twin-autocannon venerables and 4 assasins(1 of each) basically.

I pretty much forgot ultramarines can fall back and shoot which is why I tried to get into combat with the dreads which wasn't good idea so I basically lost 30 shoota boyz and stormboyz without archieving much of anything with them. Whoops. Basically game went I try to hold on to objectives(missions were eternal war+maelstrom combos. Here holding objectives at each turn + increasing amount of maelstrom cards per turn). We ended up on turn 3 due to time and it was 20-16 for him. All I killed was 3 tacticals and 2 of the assasins who tried combo charge to warboss who survived with 2 wounds. Too bad his attempt to kill eversor before it attacked failed but still I fell back and shot them apart. I might have been able to eek few vp's but forgot to mob up 10 strong squad to bigger squad losing objective.

Game 2 I played against necrons with 20+10 warriors, 5 immortals, 6 destroyer, 3 heavy destroyer, scarabs. Reducing number of maelstrom cards + objective at home dz worth 3 points. I used da jump to push forward and even got the furthest objective(not the 3 pts one. That was deep strike locked too well). I actually only managed to kill scarab squad fully :( Damn necrons kept coming back at almost rate I could hit them. Due to narrow fronts I couldn't really concentrate fully, first da jumped squad failed charge against 10 which resulted A) getting shot b) scarabs in front reducing charge impact. Eventually wraiths came to help. Stormboyz vs big warrior squad ended up in orks being grinded down. I kept killing but then he like RBB's 9 out of 13 and when warlord joined in fray I simply melted. I think game ended on turn 3(again time) with 12-12 draw but it would have been downhill from there. Those 6 destroyers are plain brutal! If you don't like kill all 18 wounds of T5 3+ goodiness they can come back and taking down even one is hard. Especially when there's also that 6 wraith squad coming up that makes mincemeat of ork boyz on charge as well.

Game 3. Dark eldars with 3 flyers, several raiders, 2 or 3 venoms. Needless to say I wasn't going to be killing much of anything. Indeed all I killed was one archon when I da jumped my 30 shoota bad moons behind him(surprising him. Seems he wasn't aware of da jump potential). First charge failed, he blew 25 of them(18 splinter shots, all hit, 12 wounds, I save none for example...), I held them by CP and charged and killed them. Scenario was 3 maelstrom card each turn that gets discarded plus relic. So basically I just tried to hold on to relic and fullfill all I could. We got to turn 5 during in his turn judge called 15 minute mark no more battle rounds(so I can finish my turn). It was tight one thanks to his turn 3 I think where it was impossible(literally) to realistically score anything he got(like priority order hold objective on other side of board with his warlord...Or take objective with 30 orks sitting top of it!). I had relic but he had tons of vp's from here and there. I got relic to 2 grots I had(or could have got it to weirdboy). With about 5 minutes left he felt we should have played next battle round. Judge decided no. I can see his point as we could have played that turn as basically he would have to kill some grots and weirdboy(though I could have used weirdboy to jump them bit further. Not that far as relic can't move more than 9" in any phase but if game would have gone I would have taken relic with weirdboy, use grots to form bit of a screen hampering infantry disembar and charge and indeed force him to not shoot weirboy or not get relic at least) and then survive my ork boy squad shooting that would have shot at the disembarked squad.

Anyway 12-12 in the end due to relic. Last turn he got like 5 due to very favourable maelstrom card pull.

Overall bit frrustrating to play against 3 codex gunlines with orks. I had trouble getting even combat so basically games were just trying to survive and hope game doesn't last that many turns. The less turns the better it was for me. That sucks. It's also rather ironic that mixed squads of shoota/choppa boyz are good for orks in TWO ways. For one it gives bit of shooting ability to clear chafff etc. For second checking how many of each eats time and orks prefer less turns...

Not that I deliberately slowplayed(actually I played as fast as I really could not even moving models 100% accurately and always to my disadvantage just to speed things up) but damn the orks just take time :( I could speed up a bit by mono squads but apart from in game effect loss it would also fasten up game which ironically is what orks don't want to do!

Hoping codex gives some other tools than just boy spam.

Something I noticed was that the warpath wasn't that useful. For one I rarely even got chance to charge as enemies would be lurking and I was better off taking objectives. Only time I did it was warpath+da jump+charge but that was a) not that meaningful(4 boyz and 2 nobz only got into combat with immortalls and wasn't really crucial I kill them. Just get to the objective) b) not reliable.

Think second da jump would be more useful. For starters eases up position issue(the squad I want to da jump is too far after first da jump) and for second if one dies due to perils(annoyingly common) I don't lose da jump. Or if opponent manages to kill one. Take warpath if I take 3 weirdboys.

 koooaei wrote:
Yeah, we don't usually face such problems cause there are no GW franchise stores in here. Just people who trade their stuff alongside other games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TedNugent wrote:
"Nobody was playing orks anyway" is not a good supporting piece for your argument.

well, orks weren't a point and click army. You got to not only create a counter-meta list but also use tactics to win and even so, you were not guaranteed to win. And that's why orks have lost their popularity since 5-th ed. Hence why, a lot of good deals for those who want them.

The exact reason I skipped on Orks in 7th was because of the way only 3 builds seemed viable - all of which cost an arm and a leg and were very likely to become invalid in 8th. See Bully Boys, BW formation, bikes. Then Green Tide, which was in a questionable legal spot.

tneva82 wrote:


I had trouble getting even combat so basically games were just trying to survive and hope game doesn't last that many turns.

This is the only reason why orks are placing at tournaments. Because even against gunlines it's not that easy to kill 150 orks in three turns.

Thanks for the report, detailed and interesting to read

 Blackie wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


I had trouble getting even combat so basically games were just trying to survive and hope game doesn't last that many turns.

This is the only reason why orks are placing at tournaments. Because even against gunlines it's not that easy to kill 150 orks in three turns.

Thanks for the report, detailed and interesting to read

Well surviving was matter of does game go past t3. Games 1 and 2 it ended on turn 3. Both games my army would have collapsed next. Last gamn all i had left was 29 boyz who had jumped to corner to score tp, 12 grots, 2 mek gun crew and weirdboy. Had we had 15 more minutes it could have been wipeoup and minimum 18-6 vp for him

Yeah, tneva results reflect what's going on. Horde is good for the first 3 turns - than it ends.

Will be facing slaanesh in casual game, 1000 pts. Daemons are one army I have never really played against except for tzeentch screamer star+invisible unit so have little idea what to expect.

What kind of an army slaanesh daemons are? I presume they aren't super shooty so that's refreshing change after facing 3 gunlines. Orks will at least get to a scrap! I'll still be facing codex army so far from easy match but at least shouldn't have to worry about opponent just running around blowing me apart.

Slaanesh daemons basically struct first regardless of who charges? So I presume they hit me first with plenty of attacks that hit well, wound on 4+ so letting them charge me en masse would be bad idea...

Just looking for general points on what to expect. Anything weird and unusual they might try to pull off I should be aware of? Wouldn't want anything "oh they can do THAT?" type of moments

Make sure you can get as many CPs as possible so you can use the 2pt combat interrupt strategem frequently by the sound of it.

tneva82 wrote:
Will be facing slaanesh in casual game, 1000 pts. Daemons are one army I have never really played against except for tzeentch screamer star+invisible unit so have little idea what to expect.

What kind of an army slaanesh daemons are? I presume they aren't super shooty so that's refreshing change after facing 3 gunlines. Orks will at least get to a scrap! I'll still be facing codex army so far from easy match but at least shouldn't have to worry about opponent just running around blowing me apart.

Slaanesh daemons basically struct first regardless of who charges? So I presume they hit me first with plenty of attacks that hit well, wound on 4+ so letting them charge me en masse would be bad idea...

Just looking for general points on what to expect. Anything weird and unusual they might try to pull off I should be aware of? Wouldn't want anything "oh they can do THAT?" type of moments

Make sure you read the trait correctly. They don't get to strike before your charging units, but take turns with them. If you charge with only one unit, their trait does nothing.

Also don't take daemonettes lightly, a unit of 20+ backed by a herold will easily pulverize a unit of boyz when they get to strike first - which is really likely since they move 7", advance d6+1 and can charge with 2d6"+1 afterwards (locus). The are basically a lot faster and slightly more durable boyz.

Yeh well in 1k wasn#t expecting to charge vs slaanesh much. In any case opponenp didn't show up. Weird as last week she was reminding me of game. Instead played vs newbie's starting box tyranids. Took bit less orks(350 pts vs his 420 or so) and played just for laughs so not much to note. I won despite point advantage and me doing suicide stuff like charging warlord vs trygon alone just for fun(and hoped kmk would help making it closer) but well...that box isn't all that effective army on it's own. I shot and swamped him with grots and 1 boy unit. think my grots were too cruel as it was hard for 8 stealers to avoid getting shot by 30 boyz with plenty shootas. He tried to tag them with broodlord but big choppa nob took care of that bug

Still he had fun and we discussed about his future additions.

Vs slaanesh had been planning to use 50 shoota's and kmk's to soften up and then fight. Maybe lure her to charge battlewagon and trukk when he can't surround it and disembark, mob, shoot and charge. With 30 boyz with 2 nobz, warboss and painboy hoped it might do something

I brought out my mechanized orkz for a game vs. some Deathwing Termies Sunday. My list consisted of 3 Battlewagonz with 'Ard case and Deff Rollaz, two trukkz with ten tankbustas each, and a lone Dakkajet. Inside one battlewagon I had Ghaz, a KFF mek, and 15 Boyz with Klawnob. Battlewagon two was transporting the Mad Dok and 15 Boyz with Klawnob. Battlewagon three had a squad of five Nobz, three with Klaws and two with Big Choppas, and 9 Shoota Boyz with Klaw Nob armed with Shoota. I fought some kind of Deathwing list featuring Azrael, Belial, a land raider crusader, a large squad of Knights, some Plasma toting Primaris marines, a quad-laz Pred, and two Termy squads.

We rolled for game and got the mission where you guard an objective all game and tie on Hammer and Anvil. So we each placed our one objective and deployment began. My opponent spent his first 'deployment turn' telling me something about combat squading some termies that are going to arrive from deep strike reserve, leaving me nothing to really look at. So I deployed my Dakkajet in a conservative corner. At this time my opponent spent his second deployment turn telling me the other squad of termies would also be arriving from deep strike reserve. So I figured I'd do what every ork should do in this mission, which is deploy without any regard for your own objective and play to swap. I put my tankbusta trukk right at the edge of deployment, then he deployed maybe his Primaris marines in slightly forward ruin overlooking his nearby objective, just outside the effective range of my first tankbusta trukk. I thought it was strange they had no transport, so I deployed my second tankbusta trukk to strike that squad first turn, on the edge of the table. He then placed his Quad-Laz Pred well out of range of my tankbusta trukkz ("Boo, hiss, Hammer and Anvil"). At this point my strategy was probably already obvious, so I placed my Wagon with Ghaz, KFF Mek, and boyz inside between the trukkz. My opponent responded by placing his Land Raider in front of his Quad Laz Pred and just in front of, yet next to, his Primaris Marines and I believe he told me at this time he was out of drops. So I placed my next two Wagonz right next to the first one, while still between my Rokkit Trukkz.

As dangerous as it was to deploy like this, the range of the Quad Laz pred made me feel like deploying conservatively would just be one more vehicle destroyed before I got the boyz where they wanted to go. I figured if I lost the turn one roll I'd take my losses and try to screen and run for 5+ turns ideally still playing for the tie. I however got first turn, and my opponent failed to seize. As much as this made me happy I was very unsure of what would happen when I had to fight those Knights in the forward Land Raider. So I considered using my first turn to immediately turn around and go camp my objective. Then I felt something in my head vanish and saw what I think was an image of Gork in my head, he seemed ashamed, I promised him I wouldn't think anymore.

Turn One, everything forward. I rained very successful dakka from one tankbusta trukk and the dakkajet on the Primaris Marines and caused I think 6 Hull points of damage on the Land Raider. My opponents turn one seemed unlucky, he maintained formation for rerolls, he did some damage to both trukkz, I also think he did two hullpoints of damage to one of my battlewagonz.

Turn Two, imagine this, I hadn't lost any vehicles yet (New Meta woot? nah nvm I know he didn't have much shooting). I didn't want to unload my choppy boyz until his termies arrived, so I opted for just attempting to get my battlewagonz into CC with the land raider. So I spend the turn firing at the primaris marines and the land raider again, but I remember not hurting the Land Raider and the Dakkajet completly wiffing on the Primaris marines. The one good point to this turn was driving two of my three battlewagonz into assault with the Land Raider.

So on his turn two, his Termies come down behind me, with intent to destroy my tankbusta trukkz. His Land Raider unloads it's squad of Knights led Belial and falls back. With some use of CP rerolls and a lucky ramshackle roll on a four damage laz cannon shot, I force one squad of his termies to spend their 'special' second round of shooting on a one hull point trukk. But for the most part, both of my trukkz are destroyed and take some losses in one of my tankbusta squads. He also destroyed the battlewagon with Ghaz in it, then multi assaulted everything, destroying another wagon and kicking off the epic melee that I think him and I both knew we wanted.

Top of turn three I disembarked the Shoota Boyz and Nobz from the still intact wagon and moved everything in to assault. The shoota boyz inflicted a casualty on the Primaris marines, each tankbusta squad fired at their respective squad of nearby termies, inflicting casualties. The Dakkajet, managed to wiff on it's roll, just winging one termie and now earning the name 'Maverick' from an observer. Anyways, the melee ensued, the shoota boyz killed the remaining two primaris marines (this might have taken two turns). And the epic bloodbath midfield was churning out dead orkz, knights, flying tirefires everything.

I don't remember the bottom of turn three so well, I remember him shooting my tankbustas but split firing his missile launcher at something downfield, doing some damage to some of the boyz that were not in combat. This turn was about rolling the assault phase, and I think at the end of it my boyz, nobz, and ghaz had almost cleaned it up. I think this might have been the turn he also assaulted with the Land Raider, because it was looking like he needed the help in melee. I used my pile in + any consolidate moves to creep up on the quad laz pred and sent the nobz to the wagon.

My turn four, my Nobz get in the Battlewagon, and go kareening backward toward the termies harassing the tankbustas. I started to smell a victory by this point, and thought that if I can get back and stop the mess behind me I might prevent the tie. My shoota boyz secured his objective, I fired a few remaining rokkitz at termies, Maverick shot poorly again, maybe winging another termy. I think after assault this turn, Belial had died, the Knights were dead, the Land Raider was dead. My KFF mek was dead, most of my boyz were dead. All that really remained in my opponents deployment were like 6 boyz, the Mad Dok, and Ghaz. I think I had one tankbusta there to by this point.

His turn four, he tried to clear a few remaining boyz with Azrael so that he could shoot Ghaz with the quad laz pred. As it turned out, the one tankbusta was just close enough that he couldn't do it. On the other side of the field, one squad of termies (I think he had two left) assaulted and finished off my Battlewagon, my Nobz spilled out, angry for a fight. And the other squad of termies started advancing toward my objective, the tie was still not out of the question. On his side of the field, with no real options he assaulted Ghaz with Azrael, and came up just short of the kill.

Turn five, I put Maverick right in front of the termies advancing to my objective, hoping to block them. I moved my supporting cast in to help Ghaz with his fight. Maverick managed to kill another termy, the Nobz mopped the remaining two termies that destroyed their transport and consolidated toward our objective. Azrael managed to live though combat this turn, which that might be good news except it probably prevented the Quad Laz Pred from having a target really.

His turn five, his termies roll a sweet advance move and my opponent kinda just moved them 'through' the base of my dakkajet, fair enough in my mind I guess. If he rolls a bit poorer that works out for me usually. I can't remember what the quad laz pred did this turn, or that it wasn't already destroyed somehow anways. But I remember what was important was Azrael fell without killing Ghaz somehow, which really deflated the epic nature of this whole melee which we had soo much anticipation for on turn two.

Anyways, my opponent needed at least a turn six to tie at this point, and he got it.

Turn six, Maverick finally comes up big, killing two termies this turn. I think I might have bothered to take maybe Ghaz and kick over the Quad Laz Pred, but that side of the board was pretty locked down (It was close enough to Azrael to reroll misses). What was really important this turn was that my nobz moved up and made a ten inch assault to at least tie up the termies. However, with three klaw nobz and maybe one big choppa nob they easily mopped up the last two (or maybe three?) termies. And for the first time in a long time, I tabled somebody.

EDIT; Overall it's hard to blame any real success here on anything I did. Tankbustas scored hard on Primaris Marines and Termies. The Dakkajet might have actually shot it's points back too. It's not too difficult to get it when the targets are 40+ points each. The one surprise was the Nobz, I really feel like they helped clean up the terrible melee with Ghaz and the Mad Dok nicely. Getting them back in the wagon and to a fight they could finish seemed clutch too, a lot of stopping power when used like this. I don't remember the battlewagonz being impressive for anything other then getting to the fight, which is sad, I really feel the deff rolla needs a d3 damage instead of 1.

 Rismonite wrote:
snip

Thanks for the report! I remember reading mechanized orks and my heart falling, thinking I was going to read through another curb stomp until I read deathwing termies and realized you had a chance! Always nice to read about a win.

I'm just starting to haul my old grot list.

Most of the Grots are 2nd Ed, and I'm good with that. The nit Grots are kitbashed from a box of Boyz.

Here's what I've got:

Warboss (choppy)
6x runtherders
6x 30 Grots (179 old, 1 new)
4x big guns, 1 zzap, 2 kannon, 1 lobba, only 2 new Grots per gun

Still trying I get to hunt down the index so I can see how many points I have.

876 or so depending on upgrades. Keep in mind after faq you will strugle to field more than 3 runtherds

 Rismonite wrote:


I don't remember the battlewagonz being impressive for anything other then getting to the fight, which is sad, I really feel the deff rolla needs a d3 damage instead of 1.

Very nice report, your list is very similar to my favorite one since we have the three BWs and two trukks full of bustas in common. About rollas I think they're overcosted, a 161 BW is already very expensive and I never equip them with rollas or any other weapon/upgrade, just the free 'ard case. The D3 damage minimum, I feel like it should even be a flat 3 damage for 19 points.

the deffrolla points is for the +3 to hit...so, 6/D6/D3 attacks at S8/S6/S4, hitting on 2+, instead of 5+

...the trick is keeping it above 7 wounds, so it stays at 6 attacks at S8...if you can get it into combat still at that profile, the deffrolla should pay for itself

I got a Dakkajet to assemble but im torn between Skorcha bomber or Blitz Bomber, does anyone have any suggestions or have they ran these recently? I could hold out till the new codex but the damn thing just sits there on sprues and smiles at me pleading for assembly and painting.

probably the best way to go would be to build it as a dakkajet, and magnetise the assorted bombs to the underside of the wings

I can't really be of any help in choosing between a blitza bommer or burna bommer for game purposes though sorry...I've only ran a dakkajet so far...

 Solosam47 wrote:
I got a Dakkajet to assemble but im torn between Skorcha bomber or Blitz Bomber, does anyone have any suggestions or have they ran these recently? I could hold out till the new codex but the damn thing just sits there on sprues and smiles at me pleading for assembly and painting.

Burna all the way. It's got a nice defensive bonus - it can explode on a 4+. The damage output is basically identical otherwise.

Blackie wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:


I don't remember the battlewagonz being impressive for anything other then getting to the fight, which is sad, I really feel the deff rolla needs a d3 damage instead of 1.

Very nice report, your list is very similar to my favorite one since we have the three BWs and two trukks full of bustas in common. About rollas I think they're overcosted, a 161 BW is already very expensive and I never equip them with rollas or any other weapon/upgrade, just the free 'ard case. The D3 damage minimum, I feel like it should even be a flat 3 damage for 19 points.

Thank you!

Also yes, about the rolla, with it being soo much more expensive then a powerklaw I really want it to do more. As pointed out, I am actually paying for the +3 WS which is unprecedented among vehicles but I do wish it was cheaper or better.

ZoBo wrote:the deffrolla points is for the +3 to hit...so, 6/D6/D3 attacks at S8/S6/S4, hitting on 2+, instead of 5+

...the trick is keeping it above 7 wounds, so it stays at 6 attacks at S8...if you can get it into combat still at that profile, the deffrolla should pay for itself

Only strange enough that I never seem to be assaulting an ideal target with the Rolla.

ManTube wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
snip

Thanks for the report! I remember reading mechanized orks and my heart falling, thinking I was going to read through another curb stomp until I read deathwing termies and realized you had a chance! Always nice to read about a win.

Yes bless my friend who is still willing to play a nearly all terminator army.

Hey Orkers,

I've mostly been ignoring the rules since the FAQ (not motivated to play index v codex) I didn't see this discussed in this thread....it probably was several pages ago, but I couldn't find it.

Because this

Q: If you use a Stratagem to remove a model from the battlefield and set it up again, does the model retain any persistent effects (for example, a bonus to one of its characteristics as a result of an ability)?
A: No.

does not apply to psychic powers, does Warpath stay active after a Da Jump? Or does this

Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?
A: Yes. Treat such units as if they are arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements.

de-activate the buff?

There really isn't a reason to assume that removing models and setting them up again works any different for stratagems than it does for psychic powers.

Feel free to take it to YMDC though.

I have a question regarding deployment of Mek Gunz. One of my opponents pointed out that the Gunz are vehicles, so there fore can not deploy on scenery such as buildings as vehicles cannot move onto a building.

This severely limited my options as suddenly my range of deployment options and Los is hampered significantly.

What do you think? I argued that deployment is not the same as movement and these are artillery pieces so would likely be placed by the army in such places before a battle.

He is kind of right. The guns themselves are vehicles just like a trukk or a deff dread.

However, the only kind of terrain that vehicles cannot move on are the upper floors of ruins. If you have agreed that all your buildings are ruins, this would mean they cannot move or deploy onto them. And yes, in practice this means you lose quite a bit of LOS.

Vehicles are not forbidden from moving onto any other kind of terrain though, for example onto a skyshield landing pad, a wrecked bastion or the ramparts of a wall of martyrs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I argued that deployment is not the same as movement and these are artillery pieces so would likely be placed by the army in such places before a battle.

There is a FAQ specifically addressing this argument. You cannot deploy vehicles, bikes, monstrous or titanic units on upper levels of ruins unless they have fly.

 Jidmah wrote:
He is kind of right. The guns themselves are vehicles just like a trukk or a deff dread.

However, the only kind of terrain that vehicles cannot move on are the upper floors of ruins. If you have agreed that all your buildings are ruins, this would mean they cannot move or deploy onto them. And yes, in practice this means you lose quite a bit of LOS.

Vehicles are not forbidden from moving onto any other kind of terrain though, for example onto a skyshield landing pad, a wrecked bastion or the ramparts of a wall of martyrs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I argued that deployment is not the same as movement and these are artillery pieces so would likely be placed by the army in such places before a battle.

There is a FAQ specifically addressing this argument. You cannot deploy vehicles, bikes, monstrous or titanic units on upper levels of ruins unless they have fly.

Yeah for clarity just posting the quote from FAQ:

Change the first paragraph of rules text to read: ‘Unless they can Fly, Vehicles, Monsters, Cavalry and Bikers can only be set up or end their move on the ground floor of ruins.’

Also you have to be weary about using flavour to justify rules. The fluff might influence design choices by the rules team but at the end of the day once the rules are written the mechanics of the rules and the fluff become distinct things.

really though, how're you gonna get a mek gun up a flight of stairs?...zog that!

1) Have a bunch of gretchin form a ramp and drive it up
2) Put a bunch of explosives underneath and hope it lands where it should
3) Have da boss throw it up the stairs

Why do we need to bring the mek gun to the roof? It's easiest to knock down the building and bring the roof to the mek gun.

Stompas used to have a CCW that would remove terrain in its path

 koooaei wrote:

 Solosam47 wrote:
I got a Dakkajet to assemble but im torn between Skorcha bomber or Blitz Bomber, does anyone have any suggestions or have they ran these recently? I could hold out till the new codex but the damn thing just sits there on sprues and smiles at me pleading for assembly and painting.

Burna all the way. It's got a nice defensive bonus - it can explode on a 4+. The damage output is basically identical otherwise.

See Burna is what I was feeling but blitz always naturally hitting on 4+ is nice. Yeah maybe I’ll just magnetize bombs or glue a whole mess of bombs on there and try the jet both ways a few times. I’m not too into normal Dakkajet though as I feel it’s too much like lootas, when it works it’s amazing and when it doesn’t work it’s hot trash.

Both kinds of bombs really aren't good against anything but single-wound infantry, so there is little reason to field a blitza bommer that has less shooting than the burna, but costs more.

reckon it's worth taking the skorcha missiles on the burna bommer?...it does bring it up to 152 points, but it also brings it up to potentially as many shots as a dakkajet with 6 supashootas...while still having the 6 twin bigshoota shots hitting on 4+, and the burna bomms...

Huh I must have misread the index, I thought Burna was more base cost than Blitz.

Yeah even adding skorcha missles I feel 152 isnt a bad price to pay for the flyer.

 ZoBo wrote:
reckon it's worth taking the skorcha missiles on the burna bommer?...it does bring it up to 152 points, but it also brings it up to potentially as many shots as a dakkajet with 6 supashootas...while still having the 6 twin bigshoota shots hitting on 4+, and the burna bomms...

If it auto-hit, I would say yes, but at 20 points and you only hitting on 5's makes me feel that you'd only take it if you have points left over and have nothing else to fill the rest of your list with.

Skorcha missiles are a trap upgrade. You are paying 20 points for what is pretty much the same as a single supa-shoota.

So I'm going to be playing in a campaign shortly and have decided that I want to spice things up and instead of running a lot of boyz I'll be running a metric ton of grots. The games will be not super competitive and are at 1000 point limits and the game types will be random.

This is what I was thinking for the list:

Total Cost: 998 Command Points: 13

Batalion
HQ
Big Mek 79pts Grot Oiler, Kustom Force Field
Big Mek 79pts Grot Oiler, Kustom Force Field

Troops
x27 Gretchin 81pts
x27 Gretchin 81pts
x27 Gretchin 78pts

Elites
Runtherd 26pts Grot-Prod, Squig Hound
Runtherd 26pts Grot-Prod, Squig Hound

Battalion Detachment
HQ
Big Mek 79pts Grot Oiler, Kustom Force Field
Boss Buzzgob 82 Big Choopa, 2 Grot Oilers, Kustom Force Field

Troops
x27 Gretchin 81pts
x26 Gretchin 78pts
x26 Gretchin 78pts

Elites
Painboy 59pts Grot Orderly, Killsaw
Painboy 59pts Grot Orderly, Killsaw
Runtherd 26pts Grot-Prod, Squig Hound

So the whole point of this list is to drown any other army in buffed bodies. The grots will have a 5++ save on top of a 6+ feel no pain making them extremely annoying. controlling objectives shouldn't be a problem and the only challenge this list has are dealing with snipers (luckily only two players have them) and armor (hopefully the painboyz will help with that or enough wound will be caused.) What do you guys think. Personally I feel like that guy for even coming up with this list but it'll be fun in the ridiculous way.

AskuNotMe wrote:
So I'm going to be playing in a campaign shortly and have decided that I want to spice things up and instead of running a lot of boyz I'll be running a metric ton of grots. The games will be not super competitive and are at 1000 point limits and the game types will be random.

This is what I was thinking for the list:

Total Cost: 998 Command Points: 13

Batalion
HQ
Big Mek 79pts Grot Oiler, Kustom Force Field
Big Mek 79pts Grot Oiler, Kustom Force Field

Troops
x27 Gretchin 81pts
x27 Gretchin 81pts
x27 Gretchin 78pts

Elites
Runtherd 26pts Grot-Prod, Squig Hound
Runtherd 26pts Grot-Prod, Squig Hound

Battalion Detachment
HQ
Big Mek 79pts Grot Oiler, Kustom Force Field
Boss Buzzgob 82 Big Choopa, 2 Grot Oilers, Kustom Force Field

Troops
x27 Gretchin 81pts
x26 Gretchin 78pts
x26 Gretchin 78pts

Elites
Painboy 59pts Grot Orderly, Killsaw
Painboy 59pts Grot Orderly, Killsaw
Runtherd 26pts Grot-Prod, Squig Hound

So the whole point of this list is to drown any other army in buffed bodies. The grots will have a 5++ save on top of a 6+ feel no pain making them extremely annoying. controlling objectives shouldn't be a problem and the only challenge this list has are dealing with snipers (luckily only two players have them) and armor (hopefully the painboyz will help with that or enough wound will be caused.) What do you guys think. Personally I feel like that guy for even coming up with this list but it'll be fun in the ridiculous way.

That's looks awesome!
I'm planning a similar list. I'd love to hear how things go for you.

Maybe swap one of the meks for a weirdboy. You're not going to have full kff coverage at the best of times and being able to jump something will help when missions require you to leave your board half.

This grot list has better chances of working in tourneys with strict time limit if you slowplay and get lucky with objectives. As for casual games, it's likely gona fail more than in competitive but interesting to see results anywayz. What we can say for sure is that it 100% depends on dice because the only way to win is get better scoring. It is incapable of actually killing anything. And it's not THAT durable either. t2 will be horrible vs any regular anti-infantry weapon. Sure, it makes lazcannons obsolete but i doubt people will bring lots of those in 1k games.

Anywayz, interesting to see.

 koooaei wrote:
. And it's not THAT durable either. t2 will be horrible vs any regular anti-infantry weapon. Sure, it makes lazcannons obsolete but i doubt people will bring lots of those in 1k games.

Anywayz, interesting to see.

Point for point equally tough with boyz vs lasgun, better vs bolter and gets even better vs heavy bolter etc.

Incidently collecting gretchins myself. Not this many but some 120 could be fun

Orks win the most recent Warhammer fest GT. No suprises here. I've always said Orks are one of the best
Winning list: 120 boyz, 2 meks, 2 painboys, 1 warboss, 2 trukks filled with 10 tankbustas each, 6 of the KMB mek guns and 2 weirdboys

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Orks win the most recent Warhammer fest GT. No suprises here. I've always said Orks are one of the best

I saw ork lists on the spreadsheet. I wonder if this is the guy spammed like over a dozen kmk’s...?

Winning list: 120 boyz, 2 meks, 2 painboys, 1 warboss, 2 trukks filled with 10 tankbustas each, 6 of the KMB mek guns and 2 weirdboys

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Winning list: 120 boyz, 2 meks, 2 painboys, 1 warboss, 2 trukks filled with 10 tankbustas each, 6 of the KMB mek guns and 2 weirdboys

Yeah, i trust those results entirely. I mean it matches what we have seen in the tournament meta this entire edition. Weren't DA, Dark Eldar, Orkz and Chaos always in the top 5 armies? Wait...that's right, the top performers in this tournament had the weakest armies according to basically every other tournament.

Slowplay accusations are going out as the reason for Orks winning. Simply spamming the objectives with Obsec bodies and stalling so the game ends on t2/3

Its backed up by just looking at the results and seeing he has half to 1/3 of the points killed compared to everyone else in the top 10.
no favorite game votes and no slay the warlord.

https://www.facebook.com/GWWarhammerWorld/photos/a.1961574417195362.1073742097.212614545424700/1961574797195324/?type=3&theater

 Ordana wrote:
Slowplay accusations are going out as the reason for Orks winning. Simply spamming the objectives with Obsec bodies and stalling so the game ends on t2/3

Its backed up by just looking at the results and seeing he has half to 1/3 of the points killed compared to everyone else in the top 10.
no favorite game votes and no slay the warlord.

https://www.facebook.com/GWWarhammerWorld/photos/a.1961574417195362.1073742097.212614545424700/1961574797195324/?type=3&theater

I don't doubt it. He killed 648pts of the enemies army per game...That is it. Which means to me that he should have been tabled rather quickly since if you let the enemy shoot you for that long without reducing his numbers your going to have a bad time. And a 5++ 6+++ isn't enough to stay alive vs other armies.

Yea we have it on pretty solid grounds that he slow played.

Rvd still drumming the self aggrandising "Orks are amazing" drum I see. I suppose we are pretty strong, when you only play to turn 3. Apparently many players would have beat the army had they managed to go to turn 5.

I wouldn't use this as a basis for claiming the army is strong, personally.

Any ideas when the new Ork codex come out?

Apparantly it was warkoptas not trukks


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Also, there are plenty of instances of threat overload and winning by VP. I'd lose 90% of my army, the opponent would lose 10% but I'd win because turn 4/5 is the first turn he can move out and then he just can't catch up anymore.

Mikastan wrote:
Any ideas when the new Ork codex come out?

Sometime this year was the last rumor.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Apparantly it was warkoptas not trukks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, there are plenty of instances of threat overload and winning by VP. I'd lose 90% of my army, the opponent would lose 10% but I'd win because turn 4/5 is the first turn he can move out and then he just can't catch up anymore.

that’s true and a legit strat to just stack up VPs however in this case none of his games made it past 3rd turn, he killed not a single warlord, killed an average 648pts of units a game, and couldn’t get a single sportsmanship point. All it appeared he did was sit 30 models on objectives for 2-3 turns and do nothing but survive for less then half a game and ensured it was only 2-3 rounds to win. He is the reason why chess clocks are now being implemented in top rounds in tournaments. Because I assure you once he starts playing 5+ rounds his army will fall behind in points or be flat out tabled.

Do we have proof of that?

Heck, even if he did do that, we should thank him for doing that right under GW's eyes.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/756759.page

Discussion about the GW tournament.

Thanks for the link.

Shame, it really seems like he just slowed the games down to not go to turn 4 ever.

zoggin' morker

Well, it's hard to not play an ork horde slowly even if you try. And tourneys have 2-2.5 hour time limits. That's exactly the middle of 3-d turn in my games.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, it's hard to not play an ork horde slowly even if you try. And tourneys have 2-2.5 hour time limits. That's exactly the middle of 3-d turn in my games.

Very true, but he didn't even play a true horde army. My last game major game was 90 Boyz, 90 Kommandos and 50 Stormboyz, I managed to get almost to turn 5 before time ran out.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, it's hard to not play an ork horde slowly even if you try. And tourneys have 2-2.5 hour time limits. That's exactly the middle of 3-d turn in my games.

Yeah. I most definitely do not slowplay yet in 2.5h I struggle to finish up game. Hell if anything I'm fast-playing to the level that if opponent is distrustful of opponent who picks up dices fast I would get called on that. I don't spend time thinking that much(which shows in result. I often go for what looks cool without spending even few seconds should I do it?) and don't need often check codex(and most of the time I do that it's on opponents turn anyway).

Orks are just SLOW. Tons of models to move, often 30-40 models moving twice a turn(da jump) plus charge moves. Then tons of shooting dices which adds up to very little so takes time for little result. Oh and because you don't kill that much opponent army size doesn't shrink that much so HIS turn often takes just as long as earlier. Especially true vs gunlines. Oh and you move slow so it's hard to reach to combat which is where you finally can remove some units with your pile of S4 -0 D1 attacks which thus takes lots of rolling to kill enough enemy to make a dent.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, it's hard to not play an ork horde slowly even if you try. And tourneys have 2-2.5 hour time limits. That's exactly the middle of 3-d turn in my games.

Multiple people have confirmed that he was actually wasting time and not playing his army at a reasonable pace. He was warned by multiple judges, but not sanctioned.
A nurgle player with a higher model count than him managed to get to turn 5-6 in every one of his games. As I gather, they had 3 hours to play before going to time, after which they would finish the current game turn.

While I wouldn't condemn slow players in general and know orks are time-consuming to play first hand, it's pretty clear that this guy was doing it on purpose.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, it's hard to not play an ork horde slowly even if you try. And tourneys have 2-2.5 hour time limits. That's exactly the middle of 3-d turn in my games.

Which is one reason why I hope Trukk Boyz becomes a thing again. Moving 8 trukks and some 80-odd other orks isn't bad at all.

Same for battlewagons - there is no faster way to move 60 boyz

Hey everyone, I'll be playing a small 500pt game versus deathwatch tomorrow and wanted your advice on what list to bring. Also, i'd like to avoid running nothing but boyz as we are doing this game to sort of showcase a low point value game to a friend who is thinking of getting into the hobby but doesnt plan on buying a ton of models right off the bat, so I'd like to show off a more diverse and fun small force if i can.

Current list is:

Patrol detachment, 499pts

HQ

Warboss w/ pk and kustom shoota- 72pts (warlord, legendary fighter)
Weirdboy w/ warpath- 62pts

Troops

28 shoota boyz and nob w/ pk- 187pts

10 grots- 30 pts

Flyer

Dakkajet w/ 2 supa shootas- 148pts

I decided to run with warpath instead of da jump because with the deathwatch anti-ork stratagem will ensure the jumped unit cant charge and then it would just be isolated up ahead. I thought bringing grots as a cheap unit to run into overwatch would force my opponent to potentially waste that stratagem on grots or risk getting tied up and the orks following them in. Shootas instead of sluggas so I have some firepower moving forward and using warpath to compensate for the loss of attacks. The dakkajet should be good because at such low point values it may last a few turns and it really eats MEQ alive, which is bad for expensive veterans. Smite and the jet in a pinch are my only ranged anti-tank, otherwise I have to rely on the warboss to smash up any armor.

What do you think? I dont want to list tailor or anything, but I know his collection is veterans, terminators, and venerable dreadnoughts. No corvus blackstar to look out for. Frag cannons will likely be brought in force.

ManTube wrote:
Hey everyone, I'll be playing a small 500pt game versus deathwatch tomorrow and wanted your advice on what list to bring. Also, i'd like to avoid running nothing but boyz as we are doing this game to sort of showcase a low point value game to a friend who is thinking of getting into the hobby but doesnt plan on buying a ton of models right off the bat, so I'd like to show off a more diverse and fun small force if i can.

Current list is:

Patrol detachment, 499pts

HQ

Warboss w/ pk and kustom shoota- 72pts (warlord, legendary fighter)
Weirdboy w/ warpath- 62pts

Troops

28 shoota boyz and nob w/ pk- 187pts

10 grots- 30 pts

Flyer

Dakkajet w/ 2 supa shootas- 148pts

I decided to run with warpath instead of da jump because with the deathwatch anti-ork stratagem will ensure the jumped unit cant charge and then it would just be isolated up ahead. I thought bringing grots as a cheap unit to run into overwatch would force my opponent to potentially waste that stratagem on grots or risk getting tied up and the orks following them in. Shootas instead of sluggas so I have some firepower moving forward and using warpath to compensate for the loss of attacks. The dakkajet should be good because at such low point values it may last a few turns and it really eats MEQ alive, which is bad for expensive veterans. Smite and the jet in a pinch are my only ranged anti-tank, otherwise I have to rely on the warboss to smash up any armor.

What do you think? I dont want to list tailor or anything, but I know his collection is veterans, terminators, and venerable dreadnoughts. No corvus blackstar to look out for. Frag cannons will likely be brought in force.

I would drop the power klaw for a big choppa with the nob and give the warboss the only relic you can take, Headwoppa’s Killchoppa, as it is free and far better than a klaw. I would also mix shoota and slugga boys in the unit of boys to give you greater tactical flexibility. In all honestly I would forget the plane as with only 2 Shootas it’s not as good as another mob of boys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FrankiePeanutz wrote:

ManTube wrote:
Hey everyone, I'll be playing a small 500pt game versus deathwatch tomorrow and wanted your advice on what list to bring. Also, i'd like to avoid running nothing but boyz as we are doing this game to sort of showcase a low point value game to a friend who is thinking of getting into the hobby but doesnt plan on buying a ton of models right off the bat, so I'd like to show off a more diverse and fun small force if i can.

Current list is:

Patrol detachment, 499pts

HQ

Warboss w/ pk and kustom shoota- 72pts (warlord, legendary fighter)
Weirdboy w/ warpath- 62pts

Troops

28 shoota boyz and nob w/ pk- 187pts

10 grots- 30 pts

Flyer

Dakkajet w/ 2 supa shootas- 148pts

I decided to run with warpath instead of da jump because with the deathwatch anti-ork stratagem will ensure the jumped unit cant charge and then it would just be isolated up ahead. I thought bringing grots as a cheap unit to run into overwatch would force my opponent to potentially waste that stratagem on grots or risk getting tied up and the orks following them in. Shootas instead of sluggas so I have some firepower moving forward and using warpath to compensate for the loss of attacks. The dakkajet should be good because at such low point values it may last a few turns and it really eats MEQ alive, which is bad for expensive veterans. Smite and the jet in a pinch are my only ranged anti-tank, otherwise I have to rely on the warboss to smash up any armor.

What do you think? I dont want to list tailor or anything, but I know his collection is veterans, terminators, and venerable dreadnoughts. No corvus blackstar to look out for. Frag cannons will likely be brought in force.

I would drop the power klaw for a big choppa with the nob and give the warboss the only relic you can take, Headwoppa’s Killchoppa, as it is free and far better than a klaw. I would also mix shoota and slugga boys in the unit of boys to give you greater tactical flexibility. In all honestly I would forget the plane as with only 2 Shootas it’s not as good as another mob of boys.

I would Mob Up the boys then jump them closer to the enemy unit. The relic armed warboss is the best bet against those Dreadnoughts. The weird boy should stay out of combat and be screened by the grots until the last minute to finish off any weak units.

Looks decent enough though if he brings frag cannons in force you\ll likely be blown to bits alas.

I got the game vs slaanesh daemons that was supposed to be last week. Seems she was bit sick last week. More than good enough reason! Anyway I had warboss w/killachoppa, weirdboy w/da jump, 20 boyz with shootas, 30 boyz with shootas, 10 boyz with choppas, 3 KMK, battlewagon w/'ard case and deth rolla, trukk, 15 grots, painboy. She had 3x10 daemonettes, keeper of secret, flying prince with axe, 2x5 seekers, charriot thingie. Fast, faster, fastest.

Open war scenario gave us deployment where one(I) was at center, 2 objectives at each player DZ and hold both and you win. Twist was +1 to psychic and deny rolls plus more mortal wounds on perils.

I deployed basically toward the side of center with her objective(no surprise) with KMK's holding center line. Wagons were on upper flank as I realized with wide grot screen that I had put and buildings I couldn't get the wagons through from center! Whoops. She had on my right 2 units of foot daemons, 1 riders, prince, charriot. On other flank keeper, foot and steed unit. Not sure how good idea that splitting is BUT this does make it tough for me to protect my objective.

I got first turn which helped to ensure grot line doesn't get auto charged by 5 seekers and likely flying prince if he feels like coming in. So battlewagon rushes forward with trukk in town. Magic I perils with double 1. Yikes! With extra MW's I opted to reroll 1 despite having hard time casting succesfully but I get it! But then she non-chalantly denied it. Damn. Shooting I hurt the charriot and killed like 1 or 2 seekers from left flank. Then combat battlewagon charged other seeker squad not getting bothered by seekers needing 6 to wound, squashed 4 and last one got scared of seeing rolling death that ran so rudely over her friends that it vanished.

Her first turn keeper leads daemons on pincer move toward my bad moons but long ranges(9, 10 and 11 charges required) means failed them all. Oh and stand and shoot killed 5 daemons from foot squad. Yey. However psychic had left 3 dead(lucky with the all models roll dice and 6 is mortal wound) and -1 to hit. Damn. On right battewagon ate charge(and 4 wounds from smite) from basically everythign EXCEPT daemon prince(I even verified she did not want to charge the prince). However she realized that might not have been that smart when all the attempts to roll 6 kept failing and battlewagon non-chalantly squashed 4 daemonettes. However those buggers came back with 1 on morale test. Bugger!

Turn 2. Deth skulls disembar from battlewagon as did goffs, painboy and warboss from trukk and the squads mobbed up into big one. On left I had daemons to deal with so bad moons moved up toward keeper of secret. -1 to hit(-2 in h2h vs big one) or not I want that thing dead! Shooting KMK's fire at the keeper of secret but much to my horror all 4 wounds I got to the thing she saved with invulnerable save. REALLY? On right at least boyz charged daemon prince and daemonette unit killing daemonettes and wounding twice the prince for light casualties. On left bad moons had shot at seekers and charged the keeper for couple wounds. Hitting on 5+, 6+ with nob, really sucks!

Her turn 2 and daemon prince disengaged and prepared to smite(and charge) battlewagon. Seekers and foot daemonettes on left prepared to charge badmoons. Magic I managed to prevent the -1 to hit but smite hurt wagon and the MW spell killed 5 bad moons. This put them below 20.

H2h prince hacked at wagon first hurting it. I then interrupted and attacked with bad moons against keeper wounding several times. They then got promply wiped leaving only nob and I declined to use strategem to keep them around. On right battlewagon was destroyed and she consolidiated into the ork mob.

Turn 3. I smited seekers away and blew keeper with KMK's. On right I charged daemonettes with warboss. Combat was bloody causing 4 wounds to daemon prince and the charriot killing lots of boyz. Though painboy caused hurt to charriot and boyz and warlord hacked the second foot unit dead.

At this point we ran out of time. Can't understand how this 1k game with fairly small ork army couldn't play more than that especially as she had fairly simple h2h army as well. No shooting to speak off. One issue was though that she was obviously newish so had to be double checking things and fast dice rolling methods not familiar. Still sad we couldn't finish it.

We agreed to call it a draw which might be likely result. 4 daemonettes on left would charge KMK on objective, likely kill and consolidiate into second. I would disengage and then 15 grots vs 4 daemonettes. Maybe last KMK might be able to shoot with some movement as well. 15 grots alone should kill about 2 in average so leaves 2 and 15 grots I have used to deal with 2 genestealers on their charge and they are better vs grots than daemonettes.

Howver on right I was critically low on boyz who were my primary prince candinates. Like hell I would like to test my warboss with 6++ only vs 4 attacks hitting on 3+, wounding on 3+ or 4+ and having D3. Ugh. So warboss would likely have tried to deal with the charriot leaving her in quandrum. Concentrate on warboss he might or might not die. If not she'll likely lose both charriot and prince to basic boyz. If she concentrates to warboss killing it the painboy might finish charriot anyway and boyz wil almost certainly finsih the daemon prince. Either way she would be with 1 unit left in whole army so controlling 2 objectives would be pretty damn tough. and I still would have 2 KMK's to shoot.

However for me ways to get to the objectives with basically KMK's left and not that close

Why don’t I see more grots in lists? Your fancy 300 odd point Dreadnoughts vs my 90 point full grot mobs I’ll take all day. Unlikely my grots will hurt any dreadnought or similar unit but I effectively tar pit it for the rest of the game.

Why is Ghazghkull still on the table? Rules aside he is not worth anywhere near his points at any rate, compared to Zagstrukk, Ghazzy is about 100 points overcosted. Really needs a rules and model update, here’s hoping.

Good game, tneva.
Iirc fly doesn't allow to charge after falling back. Only shoot. But i might be wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FrankiePeanutz wrote:
Why don’t I see more grots in lists? Your fancy 300 odd point Dreadnoughts vs my 90 point full grot mobs I’ll take all day. Unlikely my grots will hurt any dreadnought or similar unit but I effectively tar pit it for the rest of the game.

Why is Ghazghkull still on the table? Rules aside he is not worth anywhere near his points at any rate, compared to Zagstrukk, Ghazzy is about 100 points overcosted. Really needs a rules and model update, here’s hoping.

Why don't i see berserker gunlines? I don't know, those things are mysteries.

FrankiePeanutz wrote:
Why don’t I see more grots in lists? Your fancy 300 odd point Dreadnoughts vs my 90 point full grot mobs I’ll take all day. Unlikely my grots will hurt any dreadnought or similar unit but I effectively tar pit it for the rest of the game.

Why is Ghazghkull still on the table? Rules aside he is not worth anywhere near his points at any rate, compared to Zagstrukk, Ghazzy is about 100 points overcosted. Really needs a rules and model update, here’s hoping.

Whom you are asking? If me then two reasons: a) I only have 20 assembled and painted ATM. 20 unassembled, more coming. They are useful but there's only so many models I can paint in a week. b) time. When you have 2h to play up and struggle to finish up even without horde do you think game becomes faster or slower with horde of grots? I'm trying to figure out faster armies even at the cost of absolute power because frankly spending free time of one day and coming home at 23.00 or so because of game that goes to turn 2-3 is not that fun.

If people haven't seen it yet, here's a good bat rep with a mechanized ork list against Dark Angels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-m9LBgyMvM

Ghaz'khull is always well worth his points in every game for me. His invul save alone makes him an invaluable beast. When I don't bring him I notice. All the extra points of whatever is just more Orkz tripping over themselves. Ghaz getting in CC anywhere gets stuff flipped over and krumped then we do the next thing.

The Harlequin Strategems are up...this one may provide hope for Orks and fallback:

Cegorach’s Jest (1CP) - Use this Stratagem when an enemy unit Falls Back from a Harlequins unit from your army, after the enemy unit has finished moving. Provided no other enemy units are within 1" of your unit, it can shoot the enemy unit that Fell Back as if it were the Shooting phase.

Could it be that we will get one like it but get an assault attack? Pleeeease?!

I said that would be a great stratagem for orks the other day, one last swing as they’re running

FWIW "one last swing" should be a core rule, not a stratagem...

Yeah, there is too little incentive to stay in combat right now. If you're going to lose combat anyways, there is no reason to stay there.

Oh boy oh boy. I got one of the worst beatings ever. Not worst(the one I killed 0 enemy and 2 own guys has to be worst!) but still I was so dead. Albeit I knew from the start I would likely get beaten but didn't think it would be THIS bad.

I wanted some change of pace from infantry swarm especially as would be playing 4 games with plenty infantry for points this week anyway(tournament coming up on sunday) so I had 2 warboss, 2 painboys, 20 boyz twice with shootas, 2x10 boyz with choppas, 6 tank busta+2 bomb squig, 15 grots, 2 KMK, 2 trukks, 2 battlewagons, chinork. SO basically mechanized list with 5 transports full of orks.

And of course the first time I run this list I run into list that seemed like tailor made against this On previous games I could name plenty of others which would have been better targets for my list but this time with this new player I had no idea what kind of lists he runs I ran into pask+basic russ+hellhound+shadowsword+2 infantry squad+conscript squad+heavy bolter HWS+2 psykers, 2 commissar lord.

That isn't all that optimized IG list(no mortar HWT's, conscripts, commissars etc) but I had just brought army that was like custom made as target practice for them...Whoops.

Then to make things worse we rolled randomly from chapter approved and got maelstrom and then recon or whatever it was that you split army into 3 parts and roll what you get. Well I got battlewagon+trukk pair. He got pask+russ+hellhound.

First turn my objectives were WORTHLESS. PRiority order to hold objective close to his lines with my warlord(gee duh) that's offboard. Hold objective on his DZ for 2 turns. And some other that I couldn't get. Anyway I moved forward and then rolled for reserves. BTW this reserve rule version SUCKS for orks. For starters we just get to deploy on our edge which is slow(even moving normally would be MINIMUM equally fast for basic boyz and nevermind our transports) and we can't do much after that. IG meanwhile? Count as moving. Bohoo. 1st turn arrivals are basically nearly as good as if they had deployed. Then my poor chinork came on turn 1 so I can't deploy outside my deployment zone. His vehicles were so far that I either put it in sight(and still out of range. 24" between DZ's) or out of sight and don't shoot before turn 3...Gee. Oh and if he hadn't come on turn 1 then it would come automatically turn 2 movement phase end so I could even deep strike as normal...Do I HAVE to deploy him on turn 1 if I roll that 3+?

Anyway not much point going blow by blow. Basically I tried to advance, he blew up tanks easily. His shadowsword came on turn 1(actually most of his stuff came while I for example was 1 BW short) so all shadowsword lost due to reserve was cadian reroll for first turn. So my vehicles were blown to bits easily and infantry blown in quick order I only got 3 boyz and warboss into combat alive. Would have got one unit of boyz against hellhound but rolling 5" I tried for sheer desperation more to tag hopefully another squad and some HQ but rolled 4 and failed charge. Well not that it really mattered.

That hurt. I managed to bring custom tailored optimal target for the army and that scenario sooooooo screwed me up. It's like custom made for IG army vs orks.

But I ordered some movement trays to help moving stuff. Various of 5, 6, 8 and 10 model trays to ensure I have some flexibility moving around terrain. With these I should get to play infantry faster. So next time I'll run some 120 orks, 25 storm boyz and 40 grots. Take that down your throat!

My usual boyz swarm would have been pretty good against this army though scenario would still have made it probably loss. Coming piece meal is pretty bad. Though weirdboys would have helped a bit. At least after arriving weirdboy could lift them away.

Orks champion list!!!

https://diceshot.com/2018/05/18/orks-r-kiltons-list-2/

So this diceshot thing is preeeeetty good

More battlewagons

Opinion time, I am having a hard time deciding what to bring to my next tournament. I have 160 Boyz (including 6 nobz) some stormboyz and some Kommandos as well as 5 Mek Gunz (KMK)

So here is my question, with all of that in mind, should I bring Ghaz, OR should I bring a warboss with Relic BC and a Banner Nob and have more points left over for other stuff? I did the math, and a Banner Nob is about equal to +1 to attack on the charge. 4 attacks hitting on 2 instead of 3s Vs 5 attacks hitting on 3s. I am leaning towards Banner Nob and Warboss just to give more area of effect for my Morale relegation. I am also bringing 2 Weirdboyz and a Painboy.

Ghar will wreck so many things, including hard targets, that extra wounds from choppas pales by comparison. Usually the boys don't need the help anyway.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Ghar will wreck so many things, including hard targets, that extra wounds from choppas pales by comparison. Usually the boys don't need the help anyway.

How does that compare though to the Banner Nob and Warboss with Relic BC, I am assuming Ghaz ends up winning as far as dmg output, but I am also using this for Morale issue reduction.

Warboss and Thrakka both have the same rule for failed moral checks. The only real difference is that banner and warboss can be in two places, allowing you to bring the 6+ nob roll to units that are not near the warboss, Thrakka cannot.
On the flip side, banner is very vulnerable to snipers, if that is an issue in your meta.
In general Thrakka is good at taking down hard targets like tanks and monstrous creatures, a warboss is better at clearing infantry due to the attack squig and MW from the relic.

Also worth noting: If you buff warpath on a boyz unit which still has the green tide bonus, banner is superior to Thrakka's Waaagh, on units without green tide bonus or warpath buff, Thrakka's +1A is superior to the banner. Thrakka also doesn't work when charged.
So, for the aura, banner is superior when you regularly find yourself in combat with less than 20 models and/or get charged a lot.

Zhadsnark is Ghaz at half the cost and triple the speed, not even accounting for the cost of Ghazzie's required ride.

If Zhad isn't an option then go for banner + boss, more versatility. Banner nob is helpful with any unit. Relic boss is still solid output at a fraction of the cost.

The 4++ esecially in CC is a considerable factor. Warbosses get pwnt by a lot of stuff, Ghaz flips a coin and ignores half the wounds

Im a Ghaz fan personally. especially in larger games. His kill tally for me this edition is pretty good, hes another buffer in the buffing edition, hes true reliable damage, and he provides a psycological advantage (no one likes when hes around), you can use that to manipulate how your opponent plays unless they are well grounded mentally and realize hes not really that tough to kill.
He has made his points back to me every game, Hes only died in 2 games, in 1 he was part of killing a wraithknight and then a squad of shining spears, and in the other he killed a chaos russ, a demon prince and a forgefiend before going down to fire, the boys cleaned up the leftovers. Last game i played he toon on a warlock and a big squad of wraithblades with enhanced armor, They killed my killtank and then ghaz got out with a squad of nobs and sent them to hell on my turn.

Now i should qualify this and mention most of the game i play were not with optomized lists, but all the same im playing with an index army so it kinda equals out. so best advice i can give is playtest a game or 2 against people who you know to be tourny quality opponents and have a laff cuz thats what its all about in the end, a good ol laff.

I had my 500 point game against deathwatch a couple days ago. I took some advice offered here and changed my list to a weirdboy with da jump, a mob of 30 shoota boys with powerklaws, kustom shoota, and two big shootas, a mob of 10 shoota boys with powerklaw and kustom shoota, and a dakkajet. He brought a captain with relic blade, 10 veterans with four frag cannons and the rest with stalker bolsters, and a venerable dreadnought with assault cannon and storm bolter.

We didnt have the maelstrom mission cards and weren't familiar with ITC or adepticon rules, so we just placed 6 objectives on the field and scored progressively, with points for first blood, line breaker and kill the warlord.

I deployed my dakkajet in a corner and all forty boys out of LOS with the weirdboy on an objective. He grouped up his guys on one of his objectives. We roll for first turn and I get. He fails to seize.

The dakkajet flies over while the boys squads mob up and then are da jumped over to the deathwatch objective. The dakkajet fires at the veterans and kill 3 I think. Then the shoota boys unload and kill five more, leaving two frag cannon marines remaining. He removes the models closest to me and I attempt and fail a 10 inch charge. He elects not to use the "stem the green tide" stratagem, which was a good call as he kills no boys in overwatch. Looking pretty good so far.

His turn. He walks his vets close enough to use the anti-horde profiles of his frag cannons. He uses the deathwatch ability to re roll ones to wound against my troops, and then uses a stratagem to increase his to wound rolls by one. 4d6 autohits wounding on twos and rerolling ones later (along with the assaultcannon dread and some shots from the captain for good measure) and I pick up 22 boys. Ouch. If he had kept another frag cannon or two in my shooting phase i very likely would have lost the whole squad.

End of turn 1, we each have 1 VP.

My turn. Weirdboy grovels like a grot out of line of sight, doin' da important work of holdin da objektif... Dakkajet soars overhead. With a good advance roll I am able to get within 1 inch of the remaining veterans and the captain and avoid the deadly autohitting overwatch. The dakkajet attempts to shoot up the ven dread and does nothing. In the assault phase I kill the remaining two veterans and put a wound on the captain (only a few boys could stretch to reach him), who kills several in return.

His turn, the dread fires at the dakkajet and pings a wound off of it, and the captain kills a boy with his bolt pistol. The dread charges into combat, hoping to dig the captain out and protect their objective. The dread kills 4 boys, who put another wound on the captain while the nob powerklaws bounce off his iron halo. The captain kills 3 or 4 boys himself. At this point I only have the two nobs and a couple boyz left.

End of turn 2, it's 2-1 orks, with the weirdboy holding my objective and his being contested.

My turn. The weirdboy and dakkajet twiddle their thumbs while the powerklaws crush the captain before being crushed themselves along with the remaining boys by the dreadnought. At this point we decided to call it because I was ahead on go and it would take way too long for his ven dread to walk over to my weirdboy to kill him and table me (his only chance at victory). Game ends with a 4 to 1 victory for orks!

This whole game required a good shooting phase from me in order to thin out the vets enough in order to avoid being wiped off the table by frag cannons and I pulled it off. 40 shoota boys with some kustom shoota and big shoota support put out a very sizeable amount of dakka, but even with both them and the dakkajet killing all but two frag cannon vets I still lost more than half the squad in the return fire. Frag cannons are deadly. I think I will continue to run a 40 strong all shoota mob in the future to jump forward. If they make their charge, great, but if not they still put out some decent damage. I forgot to use dakka dakka dakka on them, which may have given me the boost needed to pick off another frag cannon.

No tactical objectives combined with progressive scoring was a mistake, and it just let me sit in the back with the weirdboy to farm VP. Over all fun game though.

I'm definitely feeling the age of our index more as time goes on as basically everyone in my group is playing with codices now and they have so many more tools to deal with others versus our very "one trick pony" builds. My attempt for a walker wall list was promptly dismantled, I only won the game due to lucky rolls for T5 ending and jumping a reserve unit of boyz that managed to attack a backline enemy unit on an objective. Luckily, it looks like Big trakks with Supa Skorchas are an alternative crutch to just using more boyz when dealing with these newer armies, as the sheer range/spit and consistent damage (especially against Aeldari/armies with negative to hit penalties) gives us an actual shooting phase to retaliate against guys our boyz can't reach.

 JohnU wrote:
Zhadsnark is Ghaz at half the cost and triple the speed, not even accounting for the cost of Ghazzie's required ride.

If Zhad isn't an option then go for banner + boss, more versatility. Banner nob is helpful with any unit. Relic boss is still solid output at a fraction of the cost.

Ghaz doesn't need a ride, he is just as fast a regular boyz. He can just move with the tide.

The one thing that makes Ghaz that much better than warbosses and Zhadsnark is the flat 3 damage klaw. It's the difference between plonking some damage of a vehicle/monster or being a threat that can one-shot a daemon prince that gets close enough for heroic intervention. With the +1S warlord trait Thrakka will reliably take 9 wounds of any T7 model (with a good chance of doing 12), where Zhadsnark will only do 5-6 depending on if its a monster or not, while a warboss with attack squig and combi-skorcha does about 6. On top of that, both warboss and Zhadshnark will be dead is something powerful gets to swing at them (defiler, dreads, TH/SS captain, daemon princes), while Thrakka might survive the attack and be able to swing back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dojo wrote:
Now i should qualify this and mention most of the game i play were not with optomized lists, but all the same im playing with an index army so it kinda equals out. so best advice i can give is playtest a game or 2 against people who you know to be tourny quality opponents and have a laff cuz thats what its all about in the end, a good ol laff.

Best advice. Especially when there is no definite answer to what is better, your opponents and your own play style matter more than anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ManTube wrote:
I had my 500 point game against deathwatch a couple days ago. I took some advice offered here and changed my list to a weirdboy with da jump, a mob of 30 shoota boys with powerklaws, kustom shoota, and two big shootas, a mob of 10 shoota boys with powerklaw and kustom shoota, and a dakkajet. He brought a captain with relic blade, 10 veterans with four frag cannons and the rest with stalker bolsters, and a venerable dreadnought with assault cannon and storm bolter.

I honestly thought I was reading another slaughter when I saw the four frag cannons.
Good job!

ManTube wrote:


My turn. Weirdboy grovels like a grot out of line of sight, doin' da important work of holdin da objektif... Dakkajet soars overhead. With a good advance roll I am able to get within 1 inch of the remaining veterans and the captain and avoid the deadly autohitting overwatch. The dakkajet attempts to shoot up the ven dread and does nothing. In the assault phase I kill the remaining two veterans and put a wound on the captain (only a few boys could stretch to reach him), who kills several in return.
.

Umm how this worked? If you aren#t in cc you get overwatch. You can't get into cc by advance. Only way to get into cc without overwatch would be pile in while charging other unit or consoliate. Either way how advance helps?

Oh and progressive scoring is essential to avoid game being just shoot em up

tneva82 wrote:

ManTube wrote:


My turn. Weirdboy grovels like a grot out of line of sight, doin' da important work of holdin da objektif... Dakkajet soars overhead. With a good advance roll I am able to get within 1 inch of the remaining veterans and the captain and avoid the deadly autohitting overwatch. The dakkajet attempts to shoot up the ven dread and does nothing. In the assault phase I kill the remaining two veterans and put a wound on the captain (only a few boys could stretch to reach him), who kills several in return.
.

Umm how this worked? If you aren#t in cc you get overwatch. You can't get into cc by advance. Only way to get into cc without overwatch would be pile in while charging other unit or consoliate. Either way how advance helps?

Oh and progressive scoring is essential to avoid game being just shoot em up

Perhaps we played this wrong. My understanding in the past has been that if you can get within 1 inch of enemy units (tagging them) you count as being in cc, and seeing as you did not declare a charge you do not suffer overwatch? Or is the within 1 inch thing just to prevent them from shooting (can't shoot at targets within 1 inch with non pistol weapons)? If so, can you declare a charge within 1 inch, and would overwatch be allowed against such a charge seeing as the frag cannons arent allowed to fire within 1 inch? Seems strange that I would have to deliberately come short on my movement to be allowed to declare a charge.

As for progressive objective scoring, I would normally agree, but it didnt lead to a very balanced game in our case. With my weirdboy able to hide back there his only chance at winning was holding two objectives while also fending off my attack. Kill the warlord and line breaker weren't really an option for him.

During your movement phase, you can't move within 1 inch, unless you are consolidating during the fight phase, you have to charge to attack

Alkorus wrote:
During your movement phase, you can't move within 1 inch, unless you are consolidating during the fight phase, you have to charge to attack

Ok thanks, good to know! It probably would not have made a difference as with the remaining 18 boys and the dakkajet more than likely would have just killed the frag cannon marines in the shooting phase anyways. Ill keep that in mind going forward

So how are you guys dealing with NID armies and their metagame level units (hiveguard, biovore ect). what do you consider their main threat units for us.
some of what i have read mentions having a dakkajet to deal with biovore, grots for blocking first turn genestealer rapefest ect, can we dish on Nids for a while?
I have a pal backhome playing nids and basically stroking himself waiting for me to bring my army back so he can crush me with his fancy codex.
Tell me your experiences, tell me what worked and what didnt, i have played a single game vs nids this edition and that was well before their codex.

I think vs nids i might go with shoota boyz to be honest.

Burna bommers work really well against genestealers, assuming they aren't hidden from view. Planes also work very well for blocking movement, since they can't be assaulted.

Depending on what type of nid army he is running, you really want a grot screen to take those turn 1 charges. One large unit or three small ones, whatever you like more. Make sure that there is no 1" gap to consolidate through, otherwise he will try to surround models to prevent you from falling back.

KMK and weirdboyz are your best bet for dealing with MCs, a unit of BC nobz might also help. If you don't have KMK, against nids lootaz work kind of ok, since nid's don't have tons of high-range options and you can put them on an upper level of a ruin to make them "immune" to assaults.

Shoota boyz really don't make much of a difference, you should aim to charge them before they charge you. Shooting and backing up won't work against most nid combat units.

I had a practice game last night against an Eldar player who brought 3 Fire Prisms, 2 decked out serpeants and a couple squads of reapers and a Big squad of guards.

I got to say, there isn't really a purpose for that +1 attack that I can find. I was using the Warboss and Banner Nob and I never had fewer than 60 attacks hitting on 2s. At one point I had 95 attacks hitting on 2 and 5 more for the Nob.

My opponent called the game at the end of my 2nd turn because he had no hope of winning. I feel kind of bad because he told me to be competitive but I brought the ork horde out and I just don't think he was prepared for that kind of model amounts.

I had 160 Ork Boyz, 5 Kommandos, 15 Stormboyz, 5 Mek Gunz with 25 Grot crew...it was ridiculous. All his heavy anti-armor weapons were wasted because the strongest thing I had was T5 artillery.


With all that said....I am so bored/tired of playing horde. I really want my bikes back.

ON STREAM ATM
https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer

High scoring orks 4:0 in LGT atm(4th place out of 360~ people for now). List:
Battalion
Zhadsnark (warlord: MiR)
KFF Bikemek(killsaw)
2x30 slugga boyz(PK nob)
10 slugga boyz(PK nob)
2 Bike painboyz

Outrider
KFF Bikemek(killsaw)
3x30 stormboyz (PK nob)

Supreme Command
Bikeboss (Headwoppa)
2xWeirdboy

Thanks for the link!

anyone have an opponent bringing 9 Hell hounds against them regularly? What do you do to beat that? MY Usual Scrumgrod has mentions he's planning that supported by IG transports with dual heavy flamers. About how much of his points would that tie up in a 2000 point list? I don't have those books or files.

All I have come up with his bringing 3 Gorkanauts and stuff them and to tie those up, trap them and destroy them on (hopefully his turn.) I'm still working out my next list.

Aww, he lost(narrowly). Still great showing for an index army.

9 Hellhounds will amount to about half of his army.
They will kill about 42 boyz per turn, but

Flamers aren't that awesome at taking out vehicles, so your nauts will probably do really well. Make sure to bring a KFF.
On top of that, Tankbustas in trukks or bw would help a lot.
Kannons might also do the trick, since shooting them with an inferno cannon will waste a lot of damage on overkill, while they can plonk damage of his vehicles.

It's probably your best chance to get any mileage out of deff dreads and kanz, too. Bring a stompa if you're feeling silly.

I must ask though: He is using a codex army to tailor his list against a mono build index army. Are you sure you want to play that game?

 Dojo wrote:
So how are you guys dealing with NID armies and their metagame level units (hiveguard, biovore ect). what do you consider their main threat units for us.
some of what i have read mentions having a dakkajet to deal with biovore, grots for blocking first turn genestealer rapefest ect, can we dish on Nids for a while?
I have a pal backhome playing nids and basically stroking himself waiting for me to bring my army back so he can crush me with his fancy codex.
Tell me your experiences, tell me what worked and what didnt, i have played a single game vs nids this edition and that was well before their codex.

I think vs nids i might go with shoota boyz to be honest.

If you have the points for it, a Nob squad with all combi skorchas or big trakk with supaskorcha is a really nasty surprise for nid troops. Biovores might be suceptable to deep striking units like Chinorks or buggies.

So I went to less competive tournament where people were asked to bring less competive and more fun armies. Bit of prechecking by judges. I took with me:

warboss w/killa choppa and 6+++.
warboss w/power klaw
weirdboy w/da jump
4x30 boyz. 3xklaw, big choppa. One squad 30 choppa, one 30 shoota, one 20/10 choppa/shoota(this had big choppa), one reverse that.
16xgrot
3xKMK
8xtank busta+2 bomb squig
chinork w/skorcha
25 storm boyz w/power klaw

First round. Exodite eldar w/alaitoc trait. 2xguardian squads, farseer, warlorck or two, 2 ranger squads, 2 wraithlord, 3 warwalkers, vyper, 6 or 4 jetbikes with shuriken catapults and cannons. 2x3 dark reapers.

Very well painted. Bit tough but not the worst that could be so I was okay with this. Scenario was random deployment(we got the one with weird bulge on center, #5 on maps I think). Scenario was retrieval mission and spoils of war.

He got first turn and hit my stormboyz hard, blew dakkajet and sniped 2 wounds off my weirdboy when I got careless in deployment. Could have put him out of LOS for good but nope. Stupid me. Forgot rangers. On my turn 1 I move forward and prepare to charge ranger squad with stormtroopers risking mortal wounds. I made sure weirdboy doesn't get bonus to cast but rolled double 6 anyway....Forgot I could reroll one 6 so rerolled 3 wounds but got 2 wounds and blew up anyway taking out 3 crew from 2 mek kannons, 2 and 3 wounds to cannons, 2 wounds to warboss(not warlord) and 3 dead bad moon. OUCH! Stormboyz ran over rangers and consolidiated into wraithlord who eventuially would smash them down without me doing much.

Turn 2 he blew out lots of deff skulls(mostly shoota squad) leaving 11. He rolled badly but luckily for him bad enough he didn't get them to 10 which I would have preferred. I brought in chinorks taking out warwalker, charging dark reaper squad with deth skulls(if they had been 10 I would have mobbed up with bad moons...) killing htem and consolidiating to another.

Basically game proceeded me getting blown apart steadily and me trying to keep up with maelstroms. I wasn't doing that bad but one wraithlord basically ate charge from bad moons and with 4-5 6's to save on power klaws and protect keeping choppas safe eventually killed them all...My warlord took charge from his warlord(some sweeping hawk styled exarrch) but getting 3 wounds on my turn invulnerable saved all(when he had 1 wound left) so he got away into safety...DAMN! So on turn 5 I was pretty damn out of army but objectives weren't that far away gap. Game went to turn 6. I got some objectives but so did he like killing my warlord. Turn 7 was disaster though that it came as I had just goff nob left which was promptly blown apart by LOS ignoring reaper missile. Darn. 6 vp gap loss turned to 0-20.

BTW FIRST TIME EVER outside home enviroment I got game played fully and we weren't even last. YEY! Personal archievement. And movement trays hadn't yet even arrived.

Oh and opponent happens to live in same town I...Fun driving 120km and then play against person I Could play any week

Game 2. Up against some ultramarines with that big repulsor with squad of aggressors and lietnaunt, deep striking primaris, 2x5 scouts, tarantella, forge world deredeus dreadnought with plasma guns, librarian with jump pack.

Scenario was Crucible of War: Patrol (both count as defenders) + relic.

Now right off the bad this is horrible scenario for orks. 8th ed reserve rules hurt assault armies while doing very little against shooty armies so right off the bat I was on foul mood and just looking forward next game hoping this would have been at least game 3(so I could get home sooner).

Then this happened:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/757206.page#top

Full details there but short story opponent was unaware of the Facebook clarification on da jump and for a while even tournament organizers were saying "no da jump outside deployment zone turn 1". Can't blame opponent for checking on judges sincehe wasn't aware of it(no surprise). Alas organizers were also for a while confused. After some hectic argument over it I got okay for it.

THIS is why GW should put official clarifications and changes on one official location. We spent more time arguing about this than it would have taken GW to put them to same place where FAQ's are(or even better just update FAQ text itself).

By now I was in progressively foul mood. I didn't even think should I even go for trying to kill. I shouldn't. Instead I should use da jump to spread around table as far as possible from his army and then when he comes closer send stuff away and out of LOS(actually possible on this table) to minimize casualties. So 40 guys(he had whittled 20 guys from goffs so I mobbed up) jumped and tried charging repulsor and did it and caused 5 wounds but all were killed.

On my turn 2 I only got KMK and warlord and NOW I tilted up. I was so sick of this scenario, then the mess up with da jump and now string of 3+ failed leaving me with just one KMK to play with basically and I was FUMING. This is annoying habit I have which I know and have tried to work on. Incidentally this is why I have reduced online poker a bit. I'm provenly winning player on long term with several thousands up lifetime but I have habit of tilting(as poker term is) eating up profits long term so hourly rate isn't THAT huge and it gives me days I'm so sick of it that I have decided it just isn't worth it now that I have real job.

So now for final nail in coffin for my mood I rolled 6 for KMK shots after rerolling with CP but opponent claimed I had rolled 2 dice at the same time. I could swear I didn't(Certainly had no need!) but then again I was by now so fumed up that I could honestly not deny either! I could have as I was doing fast dice rolling just to get the damn game out and done with. It's possible I played too fast and he didn't stay up so he got mixed up with my first roll which I CP rerolled. I conceded point anyway as I could not even honestly on good consciousness claim I did NOT do it. I could have! I was too fumed up to think up straight. Got 2 and not much.

Turn 3 reinforcements continued the theme so most of my army actually came on turn 4...At which point they never got to do anything. And I forgot to deploy 8 storm troopers though maybe they wouldn't have fit there anyway but did mean when they were shot I had to use 2 CP to keep remaining 8 alive.

So to put it short I got eventually from him that big tank, lietnaunt and 3 deep striking primaris(these 2 basically were bad idea to come to my DZ as they were easy kills so I got ahead in kill points compared to what they killed) and aggressors(chinork+tank bustas).

So overall: Not my best game and not happy about my own conduct there. 3-17.

Round 3. ORKS! And different type to mine. He had bad moon special flash git character, biker warboss(same relic as mine obviously), biker mek with KFF and biker painboy. 6 flashgit+6 ammo runt in tooled up battlewagon, 10 tank busta+2 bomb squig on battlewagon with big gun(so transport 12). some 6 or 8 warbikes, 3 nob bikers, 2 warbuggies.

Random deployment(we got sideways), Big Guns Never Tire, Contact Lost.

So basically this game was fairly deadlock objective wise. Both had 3 objectives. He tried to break it with bikes but basically I concentrated on them ASAP killing them fairly early. Bad moons were da jumped forward to big bike squad killing 2 but failing to charge. They were charged, more casualties, lost guys, remaining 10 or so fell back opening fire by KMK's and dakka jet killing more. Incidentally my KMK's were fairly useless most of game as he kept battlewagons well out of range or LOS. There was one building on very good spot for him for this deployments...I used da jump and stormboyz to try to break deadlock but all I sent there were blown apart easily. That flash git and battlewagon was deadly. I struggled to get it especially as big mek kept fixing it. Incidentally here was one big mistake I made tactically. I should have put chinork to deep strike and bring him when I can bring more stuff to bear at once but was too excited to get to deploy and fire on turn 1...So end result they did some damage but due to needing advance not THAT much and then were blown out. Oops.

I might have broken deadlock a bit if dethskulls had managed charge against his warlord who was about to fullfill priority order but 50-50 charge failed and they were blown up.

So with 3 objectives for both 100% deadlocked it was HS killing which was hard for me. Did get eventually one battlewagon which blew up and killed my klaw warboss with it which was fine trade for me but the flashgit I never got or even into good chance as da jump was prevented effectively later for it and no LOS or range with KMK's like ever.

So it was down to maelstrom cards. And boy oh boy I only got my first ones on turn SIX that I could control. "Make enemy fail morale check". Well gee that's easy. Especially as by then any squad I could really attack was going to die normally. "Kill unit in shooting". Well gee that's going to work with pistols and shootas vs 10+ wound battlewagons "Defend objective 3". Yeah I'm going to succeed in surviving his shooting from flash gits, their wagon, 2 buggies and whatnot.

Meanwhile he for a first 3 turns had equally crappy luck but then got ascension(control 3 objectives. Well this was easy as neither was about to prevent that!) and priority order(defend objective on his side. Took 2 movement phase for warlord to get there but then had to survive the 10 deth skulls who couldn't shoot due to buggy and had to try the 9" charge which failed) and couple more so I think he got like 15-5 win in the end or so.

Interesting game and interesting ork list. Deployment made it hard for me to break the deadlock and generally it came down to maelstrom cards which wasn't good for me today.

Oh and moment of game. 10 tank bustas vs dakka jet. 9 hits without rerolls...Needless to say it was blown out of the sky!

edit: After tournament thought about how I SHOULD have approached last game. Basically I got too scared with KMK's and big guns never tire. So what I SHOULD have is deploy them on center front. This would have given bit road block issue with 2 foot mob but not un-solvable. Then keep chinork in reserve as said and stormboyz move tight toward center forcing flash gits to either expose battlewagon to KMK's who due to forward position would have had range OR give stormboyz easy range closer. Then use dakkajet and chinork tank bustas to thin that battlewagon before charging up.

Not quaranteed to work but if I had any chance to take out that flash git battlewagon, essential for me to get anything to survive, it would have been that. Without that da jump was hopeless to get there AND all those big buildings made foot slogging rather dodgy as he could shoot closest unit and then next would be too far anyway to get to action.

Novelty experience being shot to death by orks!!! He had very good anti-ork shooty orks, deployment zone helped and terrain was with this way deployment fairly co-operative and he got to choose better side.

 Jidmah wrote:
9 Hellhounds will amount to about half of his army.
They will kill about 42 boyz per turn, but

Flamers aren't that awesome at taking out vehicles, so your nauts will probably do really well. Make sure to bring a KFF.
On top of that, Tankbustas in trukks or bw would help a lot.
Kannons might also do the trick, since shooting them with an inferno cannon will waste a lot of damage on overkill, while they can plonk damage of his vehicles.

It's probably your best chance to get any mileage out of deff dreads and kanz, too. Bring a stompa if you're feeling silly.

I must ask though: He is using a codex army to tailor his list against a mono build index army. Are you sure you want to play that game?

He's become fixated on auto hit weapons for a few months now and believes his list will carry him to victory in competitive play which he hopes to get a lot more into. I usually make him earn a win with a hardly competitive list.
MY thoughts with the Nauts were lots of strong high damage attacks should eat vehicles while he needs his 5+ to wound so it's better for me. I have a KFF big mek on a bike to help and can bring a few burna boy spanners in a trukk to do on the spot fixes to a few vehicles. I just have to play smart with that and keep them out of trouble.
He's not building this list just for me but trying to sort out what to play more competitively . He want a core of SoB and other things to support that. a bit of a mix but I am not 100% clear what else he's bringing now.
He'll go on a winning streak pushing over opponents and then I'll do stuff he wan't expecting, even if he beats me, he'll then decide to rethink his list. I play the missions to win and just try to keep my forces alive, minimize what I am giving up on points ect.

With movement trays still coming and having just 2h or so to play this week I decided I'll try finally bringing all my walkers bar deff dread that's waiting for assembly and stompa that's also in assembly(plus that requires reducing smaller walkers due to point costs). I know it's not particularly competive but let's see how this plays out. The armageddon campaign GW ran drew me to 40k and especially the story about 100 ork walkers vs 13 or so marine dreadnoughts. Been dreaming of playing game like that(well with not as many ork walkers...That would be lots to buy) for 20 years. Tempted to buy bunch of blood angel dreadnoughts to use with few I already have(including 30k contemptators) to play it out myself!

Spearhead:
Big mek w/kff
Gorkanaut
2xkill kan(big shootas)
2xkilla kan(kustom mega blasta)
5xkilla kan(2xrokkit, 3xgrotzooka)
12xloota
3xKMK

spearhead:

Big Mek: Kustom Force Field

Big Mek in Mega Armour: Tenacious Survivor, Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-blasta, Power Klaw

10xGretchin

10xGretchin

Deff Dread w/2xskorcha
deff dread w/big shoota, rokkit launcha
deff dread w/4xklaws

Bit thin on CP's. 30 pts somewhere and I could get battallion but don't have 3rd grot unit ready to play yet so would have to be boyz which is 60 pts.

tneva82 wrote:
With movement trays still coming and having just 2h or so to play this week I decided I'll try finally bringing all my walkers bar deff dread that's waiting for assembly and stompa that's also in assembly(plus that requires reducing smaller walkers due to point costs). I know it's not particularly competive but let's see how this plays out. The armageddon campaign GW ran drew me to 40k and especially the story about 100 ork walkers vs 13 or so marine dreadnoughts. Been dreaming of playing game like that(well with not as many ork walkers...That would be lots to buy) for 20 years. Tempted to buy bunch of blood angel dreadnoughts to use with few I already have(including 30k contemptators) to play it out myself!

Spearhead:
Big mek w/kff
Gorkanaut
2xkill kan(big shootas)
2xkilla kan(kustom mega blasta)
5xkilla kan(2xrokkit, 3xgrotzooka)
12xloota
3xKMK

spearhead:

Big Mek: Kustom Force Field

Big Mek in Mega Armour: Tenacious Survivor, Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-blasta, Power Klaw

10xGretchin

10xGretchin

Deff Dread w/2xskorcha
deff dread w/big shoota, rokkit launcha
deff dread w/4xklaws

Bit thin on CP's. 30 pts somewhere and I could get battallion but don't have 3rd grot unit ready to play yet so would have to be boyz which is 60 pts.

If you want it to be a bit more competitive I would ditch the Grotzookaz and stick with Big shootas or Rokkitz at the most. Shooting options on the dreadz besides Skorchas are a waste of points. A Big shoota statistically inflicts .33 unsaved wounds vs a SM a turn, the Rokkit on him is better but significantly more expensive and a lot more swingy. Otherwise it looks like a lot of fun, good luck

I have no more big shoota/rokkit kans so if I ditch them that's dropping walker count.

And ditto for deff dreads. Especially as I hate spamming identical units.

Agree, drop those Grotzookas. They are heavy and kanz have no rule that allows them to move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty, so unless you are standing still and shooting T3 infantry, they are just worse big shootas. Just have them count as KMB or rokkits...

Also, magnetize your walkers. Kanz and deff dread gun arms are the very same spure added to two different kits. With a bunch of flat magnets that fit into the sockets you can mix and match arms across all dreads and kanz you own. You can even do it after having them glued, just carefully saw them off right where you would put the magnet.

I’ve seen a rumour that ork codex is out November/December.... is this true? Sorry if it’s been answered earlier.

Hogiebear wrote:
I’ve seen a rumour that ork codex is out November/December.... is this true? Sorry if it’s been answered earlier.

Yes that seems to be the current rumor, but no one knows for sure.

I wouldnt put much faith in the december rumor myself, I ant find the exact screenshot now but if I recall it had some other things in it that soiled up its credibility

June/July, pairing with Space Wolves, is the current going rumor; from a source that seemed to have other Codex release dates on point so far.

But again, everything's just a rumor, until something official comes from GW.

Hogiebear wrote:
I’ve seen a rumour that ork codex is out November/December.... is this true? Sorry if it’s been answered earlier.

The one rumor that put orks in december also claimed that there would be a new ork faction called "Kult of Speed" - which I think is highly unlikely.

Much more likely is that we will be among the next pile of codices, after the three currently lined up have been released (death watch, dark eldar and knights).

I'm putting no stock in June. We havent heard anything since the bols rumor. And I cant remember how long that was ago.

Can’t be far off what else is left after deathwatch, harlequins and knights.... space wolves and orks? And genestealer cults

Squats at this rate, I'm sure.

I wouldnt be surprised by a SoB codex before orks.

Why are they waiting so long to release orks? Surely there’s more ork players than most of the armies that already have a codex out???

I want to believe they are really putting some thought into Orks to really flesh them out. But it might as well be that there just isn't enough production capacity at the moment and they're bringing some new kits with the codex, which itself proves to be half-assed.

Yay for optimism!

 TedNugent wrote:
Squats at this rate, I'm sure.

I wouldnt be surprised by a SoB codex before orks.

I really really hope not.
It is amazing how almost frustrating waiting on legit rumors and dates is. haha.

Hogiebear wrote:
Why are they waiting so long to release orks? Surely there’s more ork players than most of the armies that already have a codex out???

Let's just assume they are trying to get it right this time for a second, then the answer is simple: Because it's the most work to do.

First, if they keep going with the "no model, no rules" course, a lot of important models are going to drop. Some of them, like the KFF mek or biker HQs are essential for keeping the army working at all, so they would need to allocate a bunch of resources to creating models for those things.
Second, they have stated in the past that they have no clue how to make orks work. So if they want to get this codex right, they will have to invest time to start understanding them and probably plan time of an additional iteration or two to allow them to scratch a draft and start anew.

Another possibility is that they have planned a huge promotion, like the rumored Space Wolves vs Orks thing, that goes with the ork release, which takes additional time to prepare.

If you assume they are not aiming to deliver a good ork codex... never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Let’s hope you’re right. I hope that when it does come out it works and allows a variety of ork builds. It’s just frustrating that if you want to be competitive with orks there’s probably only one build to go for. I’ve found myself building ‘fun to play’ lists against people as they normally bring super strong lists that orks don’t have much chance against

Had game with previous dread list. Got against dark angels with lib on bike, sniper scouts, 2 tac with lascannon, 5 assault marines, 3 assasins(no female one), 2 small knights and gatling plus battle cannon knight.
Maelstrom where you try to predict how many you score.

He whittled my kmk' slowly. First turn kff helped a lot. He put knight 18" odd from my 4claw dread. After advancing with most of my stuff i hit it for some and got lucky 12 to charge. Survived s&s with 1wound, dented and blew up taking to next bracket.

Baby knight second turn whiffed and charged my warlord kff(lucky charge removed screen) and gorkanaut. Other charged fjamer dread. This ended costing him armigers for warlord.

Last dread tried to charge knight that was lumbering toward knk's and died to stand and shoots. Having lost kff's to walkers killa kans were whittled down badly but eversor was dead and culexus on last wound.

Had to call off due to time on turn 4 with him on slight lead. Big knight9 wounds left, gorkanaut 11. He was ahead in vp's like 6 pts.

One turn forgot in assault phase i had moved killa kans not to attack culexus but to score defend objective but this did save flamer dread.

Thank you for the battle report and pictures!

Hogiebear wrote:
Let’s hope you’re right. I hope that when it does come out it works and allows a variety of ork builds. It’s just frustrating that if you want to be competitive with orks there’s probably only one build to go for. I’ve found myself building ‘fun to play’ lists against people as they normally bring super strong lists that orks don’t have much chance against

Just looking at rules and other armies this edition. I can’t see them drastically making bikes better although they could possible make basic warbikers cheap enough to be decent, dreads this edition are also just ok without some crazy rules like a supacharga that can get them in combat first turn with good rolls I can’t see them being great either. However This edition seems to be about hordes were we excel at and gunlines do decent especially with reroll to hit and wound auras. Unfortunately we are horrid at shooting. The other decent units this edition are fast moving fly units so maybe deffkoptas and stormboys might be decent. So basically my point is unless a core unit like warbikers or dreads are ridiculously cheap I don’t expect them to be great regardless of what’s in the new codex.

tneva82 wrote:

Spoiler:

Had game with previous dread list. Got against dark angels with lib on bike, sniper scouts, 2 tac with lascannon, 5 assault marines, 3 assasins(no female one), 2 small knights and gatling plus battle cannon knight.
Maelstrom where you try to predict how many you score.

He whittled my kmk' slowly. First turn kff helped a lot. He put knight 18" odd from my 4claw dread. After advancing with most of my stuff i hit it for some and got lucky 12 to charge. Survived s&s with 1wound, dented and blew up taking to next bracket.

Baby knight second turn whiffed and charged my warlord kff(lucky charge removed screen) and gorkanaut. Other charged fjamer dread. This ended costing him armigers for warlord.

Last dread tried to charge knight that was lumbering toward knk's and died to stand and shoots. Having lost kff's to walkers killa kans were whittled down badly but eversor was dead and culexus on last wound.

Had to call off due to time on turn 4 with him on slight lead. Big knight9 wounds left, gorkanaut 11. He was ahead in vp's like 6 pts.

One turn forgot in assault phase i had moved killa kans not to attack culexus but to score defend objective but this did save flamer dread.

Thank you for the battle reports (plural), it always nice to read about ork combat. I, for one, appreciate reading a report from an ork that can be bothered to post a loss, we are certainly doing enough of that this edition and nobody ever wants to discuss defeat.

I feel like an Artillery/Kan list needs an outflank asset to nab forward objectives. It's lipservice advice but it's the only tool I think is missing from a list like that.

 Rismonite wrote:
Thank you for the battle reports (plural), it always nice to read about ork combat. I, for one, appreciate reading a report from an ork that can be bothered to post a loss, we are certainly doing enough of that this edition and nobody ever wants to discuss defeat.

I feel like an Artillery/Kan list needs an outflank asset to nab forward objectives. It's lipservice advice but it's the only tool I think is missing from a list like that.

If I were to report only wins that would be short amount to report

As for forward objectives yeah those might be useful. I'm planning on building some 5 strong cheap kommando units for far field objective grabbing and buggies could be good but I'm waiting for new models.

I saw a rumour of gorkamorka in September, maybe they waiting for that to drop so there’s lots of new kits for buggy’s trakks etc

gungo wrote:

Hogiebear wrote:
Let’s hope you’re right. I hope that when it does come out it works and allows a variety of ork builds. It’s just frustrating that if you want to be competitive with orks there’s probably only one build to go for. I’ve found myself building ‘fun to play’ lists against people as they normally bring super strong lists that orks don’t have much chance against

Just looking at rules and other armies this edition. I can’t see them drastically making bikes better although they could possible make basic warbikers cheap enough to be decent, dreads this edition are also just ok without some crazy rules like a supacharga that can get them in combat first turn with good rolls I can’t see them being great either. However This edition seems to be about hordes were we excel at and gunlines do decent especially with reroll to hit and wound auras. Unfortunately we are horrid at shooting. The other decent units this edition are fast moving fly units so maybe deffkoptas and stormboys might be decent. So basically my point is unless a core unit like warbikers or dreads are ridiculously cheap I don’t expect them to be great regardless of what’s in the new codex.

Drukhari bikes are now very good, maybe even game breaking without the max 3 limit. They used to be worse than ork warbikes.

gungo wrote:

Hogiebear wrote:
Let’s hope you’re right. I hope that when it does come out it works and allows a variety of ork builds. It’s just frustrating that if you want to be competitive with orks there’s probably only one build to go for. I’ve found myself building ‘fun to play’ lists against people as they normally bring super strong lists that orks don’t have much chance against

Just looking at rules and other armies this edition. I can’t see them drastically making bikes better although they could possible make basic warbikers cheap enough to be decent, dreads this edition are also just ok without some crazy rules like a supacharga that can get them in combat first turn with good rolls I can’t see them being great either. However This edition seems to be about hordes were we excel at and gunlines do decent especially with reroll to hit and wound auras. Unfortunately we are horrid at shooting. The other decent units this edition are fast moving fly units so maybe deffkoptas and stormboys might be decent. So basically my point is unless a core unit like warbikers or dreads are ridiculously cheap I don’t expect them to be great regardless of what’s in the new codex.

Realistic changes are warbikers dropping in points and getting their exhaust cloud back. For deff dreads there could be a stratagem to improve them.
For most units "horrid at shooting" is a matter of point efficiency and survivability. The weapon profiles of units like lootaz, flash gits, the blasta jet or the morkanaut are pretty awesome, they just don't hit often enough for the points you need to invest in them.

 Jidmah wrote:

Hogiebear wrote:
Why are they waiting so long to release orks? Surely there’s more ork players than most of the armies that already have a codex out???

Let's just assume they are trying to get it right this time for a second, then the answer is simple: Because it's the most work to do.

First, if they keep going with the "no model, no rules" course, a lot of important models are going to drop. Some of them, like the KFF mek or biker HQs are essential for keeping the army working at all, so they would need to allocate a bunch of resources to creating models for those things.
Second, they have stated in the past that they have no clue how to make orks work. So if they want to get this codex right, they will have to invest time to start understanding them and probably plan time of an additional iteration or two to allow them to scratch a draft and start anew.

Another possibility is that they have planned a huge promotion, like the rumored Space Wolves vs Orks thing, that goes with the ork release, which takes additional time to prepare.

If you assume they are not aiming to deliver a good ork codex... never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I suspect that they (GW) just dont know how to make a working ork codex. I wouldnt be surprised if a lot of stuff will be dropped and the number of builds possible "streamlined".

 Jidmah wrote:

Realistic changes are warbikers dropping in points and getting their exhaust cloud back. For deff dreads there could be a stratagem to improve them.
For most units "horrid at shooting" is a matter of point efficiency and survivability. The weapon profiles of units like lootaz, flash gits, the blasta jet or the morkanaut are pretty awesome, they just don't hit often enough for the points you need to invest in them.

I just hope they lower the cost of nobz on warbikes quite a bit. Not that the normal warbikers are good as of right now but the increase in cost to make 1nob & 2 boyz to 3nobz is insane IMO.

 Jidmah wrote:


Realistic changes are warbikers dropping in points and getting their exhaust cloud back. For deff dreads there could be a stratagem to improve them.
For most units "horrid at shooting" is a matter of point efficiency and survivability. The weapon profiles of units like lootaz, flash gits, the blasta jet or the morkanaut are pretty awesome, they just don't hit often enough for the points you need to invest in them.

I agree, with exhaust cloud and a hefty price drop (7pts minimum) they would be worth taking, their shooting would still be gak but at least they would have the option to shoot/assault instead of collect dust on my shelf. Dreadz....I don't see a viable way to make them worth taking, you could double their attacks and they still would be iffy.

As for our shooting units, I again agree. My only point would be that you missed the durability issue with a lot of those units. Lootas/Burnas/Flash Gitz completely lack durability which is terrible when you team that with their abysmal shooting ability. I am fine with them being glass cannons...but they need to step up the cannon part and add some armor to that glass part before they are worth taking. As it stands, Lootas are next to my bikes collecting dust, I did take 18 recently in 2 squads but only because I had built my list to 1750 for tournament play and my opponent wanted the full 2,000. So I tweaked my list and took lootas. In 2 shooting rounds they fired a total of 81 shots, they did a grand total of 4dmg to an enemy tank. Completely useless. My KMKs on the other hand almost killed themselves with bad rolls but still managed to do 6-7 times that dmg to my opponents same tanks.

Dread: Extra point or two speed, couple more wounds(ork walkers are often referred as sturdy. Their warmachines are noted for being fully on fire and STILL lumbering forward) and point drop would help.

For gorkanaut/morkanaut and stompa on above line I would personally increase wound count AND make degration table less of a hindrance making ork walkers lumbering monster that needs to be blown completely apart to really stop the threat. Some sort of special save would be nice but thing is fluffwise inv save or at least permanent ones arent' appropriate. Void shield equilavents have never been stompa level but gargant and even if you retcon that they aren't as good as void shield(basically one use). Maybe 5+++ or 6+++ instead to represent the orky sturdyness.

tneva82 wrote:
Dread: Extra point or two speed, couple more wounds(ork walkers are often referred as sturdy. Their warmachines are noted for being fully on fire and STILL lumbering forward) and point drop would help.

For gorkanaut/morkanaut and stompa on above line I would personally increase wound count AND make degration table less of a hindrance making ork walkers lumbering monster that needs to be blown completely apart to really stop the threat. Some sort of special save would be nice but thing is fluffwise inv save or at least permanent ones arent' appropriate. Void shield equilavents have never been stompa level but gargant and even if you retcon that they aren't as good as void shield(basically one use). Maybe 5+++ or 6+++ instead to represent the orky sturdyness.

I like the forgeworld Meka-Dread's "Ramshackle Monster" rule:
"Each time a Meka-Dread loses a wound from any weapon, roll a D6 - on a roll of 4+, the wound is ignored. The 1st time this roll is failed, the result needed is reduced to a 5+, and so on until the roll fails on a 6+ and this ability may no longer be used."
...adding that to all ork walkers/vehichles could make them a bit more survivable

 ZoBo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Dread: Extra point or two speed, couple more wounds(ork walkers are often referred as sturdy. Their warmachines are noted for being fully on fire and STILL lumbering forward) and point drop would help.

For gorkanaut/morkanaut and stompa on above line I would personally increase wound count AND make degration table less of a hindrance making ork walkers lumbering monster that needs to be blown completely apart to really stop the threat. Some sort of special save would be nice but thing is fluffwise inv save or at least permanent ones arent' appropriate. Void shield equilavents have never been stompa level but gargant and even if you retcon that they aren't as good as void shield(basically one use). Maybe 5+++ or 6+++ instead to represent the orky sturdyness.

I like the forgeworld Meka-Dread's "Ramshackle Monster" rule:
"Each time a Meka-Dread loses a wound from any weapon, roll a D6 - on a roll of 4+, the wound is ignored. The 1st time this roll is failed, the result needed is reduced to a 5+, and so on until the roll fails on a 6+ and this ability may no longer be used."
...adding that to all ork walkers/vehichles could make them a bit more survivable

Problem with that is that it's more dice rolling(=slows game) for maybe 1-2 extra wounds in average. Not sure what mathematical average is but quick simulation by simulating several thousand times says about 1.6. So ork player would be better off with simply 2 extra wounds(and no degrade table).

Well not that FNP would be much different anyway. Less dice roll option would be better probably. Though albeit rolling dice is exciting but at least FNP it's easier.

tneva82 wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Dread: Extra point or two speed, couple more wounds(ork walkers are often referred as sturdy. Their warmachines are noted for being fully on fire and STILL lumbering forward) and point drop would help.

For gorkanaut/morkanaut and stompa on above line I would personally increase wound count AND make degration table less of a hindrance making ork walkers lumbering monster that needs to be blown completely apart to really stop the threat. Some sort of special save would be nice but thing is fluffwise inv save or at least permanent ones arent' appropriate. Void shield equilavents have never been stompa level but gargant and even if you retcon that they aren't as good as void shield(basically one use). Maybe 5+++ or 6+++ instead to represent the orky sturdyness.

I like the forgeworld Meka-Dread's "Ramshackle Monster" rule:
"Each time a Meka-Dread loses a wound from any weapon, roll a D6 - on a roll of 4+, the wound is ignored. The 1st time this roll is failed, the result needed is reduced to a 5+, and so on until the roll fails on a 6+ and this ability may no longer be used."
...adding that to all ork walkers/vehichles could make them a bit more survivable

Problem with that is that it's more dice rolling(=slows game) for maybe 1-2 extra wounds in average. Not sure what mathematical average is but quick simulation by simulating several thousand times says about 1.6. So ork player would be better off with simply 2 extra wounds(and no degrade table).

Well not that FNP would be much different anyway. Less dice roll option would be better probably. Though albeit rolling dice is exciting but at least FNP it's easier.

the "ramshackle monster" rule I quoted is a FNP save though...it just starts as a 4+, and degrades to a 5+, then 6+, then goes away, each time you fail to make a save with it...so, it's an improved, albeit non-permanent, FNP...a deff dread, with that rule, on top of it's 3+ armour, and non-degrading stats, could be decent imo

maybe some kind of universal 5+, or maybe only 6+ invuln save could be appropriate too though...something related to the orks passive collective psychic ability or something, not believing that the thing was damaged by the attack

SemperMortis wrote:
As for our shooting units, I again agree. My only point would be that you missed the durability issue with a lot of those units. Lootas/Burnas/Flash Gitz completely lack durability which is terrible when you team that with their abysmal shooting ability. I am fine with them being glass cannons...but they need to step up the cannon part and add some armor to that glass part before they are worth taking.

Yeah, I mentioned it, but I didn't extend on it. Fixing ork specialist durability is not easily fixed, but there have been plenty of suggestions over at the threat in suggested rules (gretchin acting like body guards, mob up with boyz, etc). I just hope GW is as creative at finding solutions as the dakka ork community is. I wouldn't mind if they just stole half the the ideas from that thread and claimed them to be their own

As it stands, Lootas are next to my bikes collecting dust, I did take 18 recently in 2 squads but only because I had built my list to 1750 for tournament play and my opponent wanted the full 2,000. So I tweaked my list and took lootas. In 2 shooting rounds they fired a total of 81 shots, they did a grand total of 4dmg to an enemy tank. Completely useless. My KMKs on the other hand almost killed themselves with bad rolls but still managed to do 6-7 times that dmg to my opponents same tanks.

I did the mathhammer some time ago that put lootaz at 8-9 points per model to compete with KMK. At 9 points the KMK would still win from a pure damage viewpoint, but lootas would have more durability, more range, more mobility and can beat a lot of deep strikers to death in combat. Back then I was worried that people would just flood the board with lootas if they did that and shoot everything deader than dead. But with the rule of 3 you would now be limited to 45 lootaz per army, so I think this would be a good path to follow with them. 45 lootaz were quite common in 5th and they didn't break the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZoBo wrote:
the "ramshackle monster" rule I quoted is a FNP save though...it just starts as a 4+, and degrades to a 5+, then 6+, then goes away, each time you fail to make a save with it...so, it's an improved, albeit non-permanent, FNP...a deff dread, with that rule, on top of it's 3+ armour, and non-degrading stats, could be decent imo

maybe some kind of universal 5+, or maybe only 6+ invuln save could be appropriate too though...something related to the orks passive collective psychic ability or something, not believing that the thing was damaged by the attack

I agree with tneva on this, it's a typical FW rule - very fluffy, but utterly impractical. For example, if you were hit by a lascannon that does 6 damage, you would have to roll every single dice one by one, to see if the value you need to roll drops after each roll.

Ramshackle on trukks is roughly half as efficient as a 6+ FNP save, so you could just put a 5+ ramshackle rule on the deff dread for a fluffy and useful rule.

 ZoBo wrote:

the "ramshackle monster" rule I quoted is a FNP save though...it just starts as a 4+, and degrades to a 5+, then 6+, then goes away, each time you fail to make a save with it...so, it's an improved, albeit non-permanent, FNP...a deff dread, with that rule, on top of it's 3+ armour, and non-degrading stats, could be decent imo

maybe some kind of universal 5+, or maybe only 6+ invuln save could be appropriate too though...something related to the orks passive collective psychic ability or something, not believing that the thing was damaged by the attack

Yeah well it's only marginally better(about 0.3 wounds more) and more clumsy=slower for game.

Do we want to make marginal boosts that slow down orks even further? Hell I don't want BIG boosts that slow down. I'm begging for GW NOT say make bad moon clan trait reroll 1's in shooting. I don't care is it good or bad. Even if it was awesome I dread imagining impact it would have on amount of turns I get by. I would want GW to buff them somehow that DOESN'T increase dice rolling(unfortunately GW seems to be hell bent on increasing amount of dice you need to roll to get through game so I might be in for nasty surprise with the codex shutting me out of tournaments/FLGS games with orks)

Thus I would rather take extra wound for deff than 6+++(it's only 0.33 wounds lost anyway) and 9 wounds rather than ramshackle monster is likewise acceptable. 10 would be even better as not only it would be quicker it would be even tougher.

tneva82 wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:

the "ramshackle monster" rule I quoted is a FNP save though...it just starts as a 4+, and degrades to a 5+, then 6+, then goes away, each time you fail to make a save with it...so, it's an improved, albeit non-permanent, FNP...a deff dread, with that rule, on top of it's 3+ armour, and non-degrading stats, could be decent imo

maybe some kind of universal 5+, or maybe only 6+ invuln save could be appropriate too though...something related to the orks passive collective psychic ability or something, not believing that the thing was damaged by the attack

Yeah well it's only marginally better(about 0.3 wounds more) and more clumsy=slower for game.

Do we want to make marginal boosts that slow down orks even further? Hell I don't want BIG boosts that slow down. I'm begging for GW NOT say make bad moon clan trait reroll 1's in shooting. I don't care is it good or bad. Even if it was awesome I dread imagining impact it would have on amount of turns I get by. I would want GW to buff them somehow that DOESN'T increase dice rolling(unfortunately GW seems to be hell bent on increasing amount of dice you need to roll to get through game so I might be in for nasty surprise with the codex shutting me out of tournaments/FLGS games with orks)

Thus I would rather take extra wound for deff than 6+++(it's only 0.33 wounds lost anyway) and 9 wounds rather than ramshackle monster is likewise acceptable. 10 would be even better as not only it would be quicker it would be even tougher.

Keep in mind that right now to be even remotely competitive you need 90-120 boyz MINIMUM! hopefully with the new codex whenever it comes out we can field Trukk Boyz again or even just smaller, more elite units of boyz for Troops and then rely on our specialists to get the job done. The point being that the model count is HOPEFULLY going to drop significantly as we move away from flooding the table with Ork Boyz and start using our specialists units that are for the most part useless right now. I Have 3 boxes of Burna Boyz collecting dust right now because I can't be bothered to open them and put them together because burna's are so terrible right now. ( I originally bought them to use in my Kommando Horde Army which has since been killed by Rule of 3)

But if my Warbikes become useful again and their price is dropped significantly they still take up 3-4x as many points as a Boy and I have 35 of them so do the math. Same thing for Lootas (I have 30) and Kanz/Dreadz/Naut (Another 15) These units are all super expensive compared to boyz and If they were usable I would field them.

Chiming in on the Dreads. I had a thought that GW probably thinks we(Ork players) would be fielding more mechaniks in our units to keep fixing our vehicles through out the game.
Personally I find my Trukks ramshackle to work far more often than it probably should so I would be thrilled to get that same rule on every Ork vehicle. (Probably excluding Mek guns.)
Going back to the first bit of my post here, I think it shows we may still be stuck in oldthink and or that GW really does play their game much different that we do.
I'd love a 15 to 20 point drop on dreads if not the ramshackle. (my own minimal wish listing.)

 warhead01 wrote:
Chiming in on the Dreads. I had a thought that GW probably thinks we(Ork players) would be fielding more mechaniks in our units to keep fixing our vehicles through out the game.
Personally I find my Trukks ramshackle to work far more often than it probably should so I would be thrilled to get that same rule on every Ork vehicle. (Probably excluding Mek guns.)
Going back to the first bit of my post here, I think it shows we may still be stuck in oldthink and or that GW really does play their game much different that we do.
I'd love a 15 to 20 point drop on dreads if not the ramshackle. (my own minimal wish listing.)

Problem is mechanik doesn't really help when it gets blown apart. Deff dread is easily one shottable. And then for bigger ones like gorkanaut/stompa 1 fix per turn isn't really that much when enemy is likely to do like 20+ wounds a turn stompa on last bracket is pretty minimal.

I agree. I think two things, it definitely needs another wound or two or even, like the ramshackle rule a chance to reduce some damage.
Thing is GW's mind set on 40K hasn't seemed to move very much over the years. We as players, a lot of us, "go hard on the paint" (The kids still say that right..?)

I am unsure how other armies slot their dreads bet we also get to take 3 for the slot. But the cost for even one is too much.
I kinda think that the Deff Dread needs a little something to make it a bit more flashy for the cost even if not really/or at all more effective.
I don't expect deff dreads to become a must have but I would love for them to be a slightly better choice for their points.

Regarding fixing, Do you any of you bother with it? do you plan ahead for it? I just a month or so ago put a big mek on a bike to push my KFF up with my trukks so I expect he'll do the same thing with my dreads and Nauts now he fixes more wounds than a spanner or a mek. The other thing that's bothering me is only being able to fix a vehicle once per turn. . If I understand that right then they mean that 2 meks can't fix the same vehicle. If that is actually so, I'd like to see that lifted. I may have it wrong though.

 Blackie wrote:

gungo wrote:

Hogiebear wrote:
Let’s hope you’re right. I hope that when it does come out it works and allows a variety of ork builds. It’s just frustrating that if you want to be competitive with orks there’s probably only one build to go for. I’ve found myself building ‘fun to play’ lists against people as they normally bring super strong lists that orks don’t have much chance against

Just looking at rules and other armies this edition. I can’t see them drastically making bikes better although they could possible make basic warbikers cheap enough to be decent, dreads this edition are also just ok without some crazy rules like a supacharga that can get them in combat first turn with good rolls I can’t see them being great either. However This edition seems to be about hordes were we excel at and gunlines do decent especially with reroll to hit and wound auras. Unfortunately we are horrid at shooting. The other decent units this edition are fast moving fly units so maybe deffkoptas and stormboys might be decent. So basically my point is unless a core unit like warbikers or dreads are ridiculously cheap I don’t expect them to be great regardless of what’s in the new codex.

Drukhari bikes are now very good, maybe even game breaking without the max 3 limit. They used to be worse than ork warbikes.

You mean the super fast jet bikes with fly keyword and invul saves.. sure but standard bikes even beefed up ones like ravenwing aren’t that great the problem this edition is 2 wound models without good invul saves aren’t efficient.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

gungo wrote:

Hogiebear wrote:
Let’s hope you’re right. I hope that when it does come out it works and allows a variety of ork builds. It’s just frustrating that if you want to be competitive with orks there’s probably only one build to go for. I’ve found myself building ‘fun to play’ lists against people as they normally bring super strong lists that orks don’t have much chance against

Just looking at rules and other armies this edition. I can’t see them drastically making bikes better although they could possible make basic warbikers cheap enough to be decent, dreads this edition are also just ok without some crazy rules like a supacharga that can get them in combat first turn with good rolls I can’t see them being great either. However This edition seems to be about hordes were we excel at and gunlines do decent especially with reroll to hit and wound auras. Unfortunately we are horrid at shooting. The other decent units this edition are fast moving fly units so maybe deffkoptas and stormboys might be decent. So basically my point is unless a core unit like warbikers or dreads are ridiculously cheap I don’t expect them to be great regardless of what’s in the new codex.

Realistic changes are warbikers dropping in points and getting their exhaust cloud back. For deff dreads there could be a stratagem to improve them.
For most units "horrid at shooting" is a matter of point efficiency and survivability. The weapon profiles of units like lootaz, flash gits, the blasta jet or the morkanaut are pretty awesome, they just don't hit often enough for the points you need to invest in them.

the horrid at shooting for us is specifically bs5 multiple ways for armies to get -1 to hit or higher and thus making it impossible for us to ever hit them, and no reroll to hit Auras that other armies with decent shooting exploit.

Regarding ramshackle I use it a lot on my meka dread it is only good on 1 model where I can use my CP reroll if I fail the 4+ to keep the FNP going but once I fail again that fnp save is gone. I’m saving ~3 maybe at best 4 wounds even with the CP reroll to keep that dread alive, but t helps especially with the meka dread with its kff 5+ invul.

All I’m saying is this edition favors fast moving assault units that can cross the table in turn 1, decent shooting units (bs3) with reroll hit auras and high volume, and shooting units with fly that have the ability to fall back and shoot and hordes since this editional lacks units with insanely high attack values that can clear hordes. Dreads and bikes in other codexs geneally do poorly as well unless they start benefiting from the above.

going off topic dudes, theres a thread about ideas for the codex already

My common opponents include EC with Slanesh Daemons, Imperial Fists, Dark Angel Greenwing, Tau and Tzeench Daemons.
I assure you ork shooting isn't stellar even if -1 to hit is no issue at all. Facing an allaitoc army is just the final nail in the coffin.

 Jidmah wrote:
My common opponents include EC with Slanesh Daemons, Imperial Fists, Dark Angel Greenwing, Tau and Tzeench Daemons.
I assure you ork shooting isn't stellar even if -1 to hit is no issue at all. Facing an allaitoc army is just the final nail in the coffin.

It’s ridiculosuly stupid -2 to hit and it’s inpossible to roll a 7...however if you allow yourself to fire overwatch you always hit on a 6. Orks are fine at bs5 if we get enough dakka but we seriously need some defense against neg hit modifiers.

gungo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
My common opponents include EC with Slanesh Daemons, Imperial Fists, Dark Angel Greenwing, Tau and Tzeench Daemons.
I assure you ork shooting isn't stellar even if -1 to hit is no issue at all. Facing an allaitoc army is just the final nail in the coffin.

It’s ridiculosuly stupid -2 to hit and it’s inpossible to roll a 7...however if you allow yourself to fire overwatch you always hit on a 6. Orks are fine at bs5 if we get enough dakka but we seriously need some defense against neg hit modifiers.

Game wise rule 6 always hits. Done.

honestly I think giving orks a rule like remaking strategem Dakka Dakka Dakka 1cp
Orks Get +1 to hit for every additional ork unit that targets the chosen unit in the shooting phase.

So if 2 ork units target the unit they get +1 each to hit, if 3 units target the unit they get +2 to hit each, of 4 units target the same unit they each get +3 each to hit... You are basically overkiling a single unit but it also doesn’t work on mek guns or kans which aRe manned by Gretchen.

That’s what I want!!!

gungo wrote:
honestly I think giving orks a rule like remaking strategem Dakka Dakka Dakka 1cp
Orks Get +1 to hit for every additional ork unit that targets the chosen unit in the shooting phase.

So if 2 ork units target the unit they get +1 each to hit, if 3 units target the unit they get +2 to hit each, of 4 units target the same unit they each get +3 each to hit... You are basically overkiling a single unit but it also doesn’t work on mek guns or kans which aRe manned by Gretchen.

That’s what I want!!!

Honestly I think it wpuld be fluffy and cool if orkz were allowed to split fire in the shooting phase and got +2 BS for targeting 3 or more units

 davou wrote:
going off topic dudes, theres a thread about ideas for the codex already

Very true, unfortunately since we don't have a codex yet and there are no legitimate tactics to discuss that haven't been beaten to death multiple times we are devolving into our wish list mode. I mean if you want we can rehash how nothing is as good as Boyz this edition and how Lootas aren't worth taking ever compared to Mek Gunz right now.

 Jidmah wrote:

Let's just assume they are trying to get it right this time for a second

Be honest - do you really believe that?

I legitimately lost hope when I saw the Ghazghkull book. The writing alone was such a decline from the Kelly book's fluff. I just didn't sense that they cared for the product.

Hello Guys,

I just fought nids last weekend and i had a real hard time with the big stufs (carnifex, old one eye, swarmlord...). How do you beat them??
I just used boyz but they manage to engage my support units (painboy, nobz with banner...) and it was over...
Only the back biggunz/mekgunz survieved

Kustom mega kannons(at least at shootable big monsters) and power klaw/big choppa nobz in boyz squads. Plus simply pile of attacks hitting on 3+, wounding on 5+ and them having like 3+ save. 29 boyz do cause 8.5 wounds in average so not so insignificant. Trick is getting them there as he likely has gaunts to tie you up. Ergo the bigger leaders. Getting charge with warboss can also help though only with 1 warboss(multiple and strategem intercept will splatter 1 so if you charge with 2 make sure you charge with 3+ instead.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Let's just assume they are trying to get it right this time for a second

Be honest - do you really believe that?

I legitimately lost hope when I saw the Ghazghkull book. The writing alone was such a decline from the Kelly book's fluff. I just didn't sense that they cared for the product.

So did I.

But, the supplement that shall not be named had the old management's handwriting all over it, so I'm willing to give the new management at least one shot at getting it right.

The index was just transferring the crappy 7th edition codex into a slightly less crappy 8th edition. At least they gave us the banner nob, da jump (the first really good psychic power in the history of 40k orks), made deff rollas better than totally useless and returned Thrakka to his old glory.
Granted, the difference in work put into the ork index compared to the space marine index is baffling, but same could be said for index tyranids, tau or dark eldar, who all got decent codices. I'm kind of curious about codex:knights, since it might be a sneak peak of what nauts could become.

Beyond that it's very simple: if you assume they don't give a damn about the codex, sell your orks and start a new army or drop the game. There is literally nothing else left to do if you assume that GW isn't even trying to get it right.

So yes, I do have hopes for the ork codex actually being well-done, based on how well many other codices have been done this edition. However, I won't be overly surprised if turns out to be an ignited garbage disposal site.

I learned that a trukk is pretty good to tie the gaunts up

 Jidmah wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Let's just assume they are trying to get it right this time for a second

Be honest - do you really believe that?

I legitimately lost hope when I saw the Ghazghkull book. The writing alone was such a decline from the Kelly book's fluff. I just didn't sense that they cared for the product.

The index was just transferring the crappy 7th edition codex into a slightly less crappy 8th edition. At least they gave us the banner nob, da jump (the first really good psychic power in the history of 40k orks), made deff rollas better than totally useless and returned Thrakka to his old glory.

you forgot the vast improvement to "mob rule" in the index, vs 7th - if we didn't have that, even boyz wouldn't be anywhere near as good as they are!

Right! 7th edition mob rule was so terrible my memory keeps overwriting the memory of it with quotes from lolcat pictures.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Let's just assume they are trying to get it right this time for a second

Be honest - do you really believe that?

I legitimately lost hope when I saw the Ghazghkull book. The writing alone was such a decline from the Kelly book's fluff. I just didn't sense that they cared for the product.

I have to call stupidity instead of malice for the Ghazzy supplement because that thing had nothing above mediocre from cover to cover. No one involved in that book put much effort into rules or fluff, and the formations were a cluster of misc traits and models slapped together. It managed to out-bland the 7e codex’s lore, which was 50% copy+paste and 25% just pictures of painted minis. That book was not indicative of GW’s take on orks because it barely indicated basic editing skills. But I digress. The rules for orks in the index were about average in terms of overall power level and usefulness compared to other index armies. Codices since then have been mixed, with some fixing nothing and others drastically improving problems while toning down unbalances. With orks being near-last to get their codex I think it’ll expand on the fixes in the last few FAQs designed to give our useless stuff some utility without destroying the core of the army.

 Jidmah wrote:
Right! 7th edition mob rule was so terrible my memory keeps overwriting the memory of it with quotes from lolcat pictures.

I tipycally played with fearless meganobz, 5 man squads of bustas, bikes and a couple of min squads of boyz in boyz in trukks.... mob rule wasn't that big deal in 7th.

I actually had a lot of fun with orks in 7th even against competitive lists. Now 70% of my collection is impossible to field even in friendly games, and I'm sure that even with a mid tier codex orks will be way more fun to play with the codex. For me they're now shelved, I have enough of playing with the index. 8th edition with index is by far the worst edition ever. I miss the Ghaz supplement, which was gold in comparison

 Blackie wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Right! 7th edition mob rule was so terrible my memory keeps overwriting the memory of it with quotes from lolcat pictures.

I tipycally played with fearless meganobz, 5 man squads of bustas, bikes and a couple of min squads of boyz in boyz in trukks.... mob rule wasn't that big deal in 7th.

I actually had a lot of fun with orks in 7th even against competitive lists. Now 70% of my collection is impossible to field even in friendly games, and I'm sure that even with a mid tier codex orks will be way more fun to play with the codex. For me they're now shelved, I have enough of playing with the index. 8th edition with index is by far the worst edition ever. I miss the Ghaz supplement, which was gold in comparison

well yeah, I guess mob rule wasn't a big deal in 7th, because it might as well have not even existed, for all the good it did!...I, however, always liked running green tide style lists, so the index mob rule is bloody fantastic for me!...take 2-4 30-man mobs (depending on the size of the game), and they might as well be completely immune to morale!

While walking in national park i had crazy idea. Might be illegal though. Will check later when i get back to books but at times da jumping boyz feels wasta as others could do job as well and unit tends to die. Especially as jumped mobs can actually care about morale.

So i thought. What about gretchins? That would be fun. Da jumping 30 dirt cheap wounds to take objectives or roadblock. At some terrain could with clever position roadblock or at least even flyers and knights. Alas i think gretchins aren't legal da jump target :(

tneva82 wrote:
While walking in national park i had crazy idea. Might be illegal though. Will check later when i get back to books but at times da jumping boyz feels wasta as others could do job as well and unit tends to die. Especially as jumped mobs can actually care about morale.

So i thought. What about gretchins? That would be fun. Da jumping 30 dirt cheap wounds to take objectives or roadblock. At some terrain could with clever position roadblock or at least even flyers and knights. Alas i think gretchins aren't legal da jump target :(

They are legal, Da Jump works on infantry. However, if you think Morale is an issue with Boyz that are jumped wait until you see Grotz lose a morale test

I mean if you really want you can jump grots and daisy chain them back to a herder if you want and then use them as area denial, but don't expect them to do more then die.

Yeah i'm not expecting them to survive but then again often with boyz i don#t them to survive either. And time to time i don#t even expect them to kill anything. Or i expect them to just sit there holding objective. And when used to speed bump they are quaranteed to do job as he can't clear them before movement phase.

Tyranids might(not sure as i'm not familiar of their curren' meta) hate 60" wall of dirt cheap bodies and last tournament bikes would have hated that line as well. Shoota boyz were bit better but not sure were they twice as good seeing main job was to draw them out to where i wanted them and i fully expected them to die(which they did).

I can see times i could use this.

Too bad meta is gunlines or jump pack assaults which hurt this. Old fashioned rhino rush could hate having to clear several waves of speed bump lines

Alright, so I have just about finalized my list for a 1750 tournament, I would like constructive criticism please. It is an ITC event so it will be using the new rules (Rule of 3 and what not)

Brigade Detachment.

HQs:
Ghazghkull Thraka
Weirdboy
Weirdboy

TROOPS:
30x Boyz (Nob)
30x Boyz (Nob)
30x Boyz (Nob)
30x Boyz (Nob)
10x Boyz (Nob)
10x Boyz (Nob)

ELITES:
5x Kommandos (Nob, 2 Burnas)
5x Kommandos (Nob, 2 Burnas)
Nob With Waaagh Banner
Painboy

FAST ATTACK:
6x Stormboyz (Nob)
6x Stormboyz (Nob)
5x Stormboyz (Nob)

HEAVY SUPPORT:
1x KMK
2x KMK
2x KMK

I originally wanted to take less Kommandos and stormboyz and just use 180ish Boyz but then I played a practice game and getting that many models set up, deployed and moving was slowing the game down way to much so I decided to remove 40 Boyz from the list and buy more expensive things with fewer model counts. The idea is to daisy chain everyone back to the Painboy/Banner Nob and ghaz to maximize the benefits, I will use 1 Weirdboy for "Da Jump" and 1 for "Warpath". I didn't equip any of the nobz with anything because I just don't think Big Choppas or PowerKlaws are worth their points anymore.

My goal is going to be to Tie up my enemies troops on turns 1 and 2 and then on turn 3 deploy my Kommandos to uncontested Objectives or objectives with light defense. I will always have the ability to jump boyz if I need to but Kommandos are just so sneaky and I can't make a list without some of them in it! Hopefully by turn 4 my enemy is either to weak or too far away from the Kommando objectives to do much more then fire harassment shots at them. If possible I want Ghaz and some boyz to get stuck in and start really Krump'n Stuff. There is a distinct possibility that I could have a unit of boyz with 6 attacks each (2 base, 1 choppa, 1 20+ models, Warpath and 1 for Ghaz) hitting on 2s (Banner Nob) Completely overkill but come on! talk about demoralizing (I have 180 attacks, hitting on 2s, here is the first batch of 60!)

So what do you ladz think?

Why the brigade? We don't have stratagems or D6 damage weapons, there's no need of that many CPs.

I prefer giving up some useless CPs and give pks to the nobz since in units of 30 dudes with warpath, ghaz and the banner those klaws can do something and definitely worth 13 points. The min squad of boyz are ok with bare bones nobz instead.

I'd cut the min units of stormboyz, which I never liked. Alternatively I'd merge the KMKs into a single squad, or maybe two and all the stormboyz into a single squad as well.

I find CP\s to soak with auto morale passing(da jumped squads in particular) and counter charges. Albeit I usually settle for 2 battallions.

I'm not sold on warpath+da jump combo. I rarely seem to get warpath actually work. Da jumped it's 50-50 if you charge and I find often enough I'm charged more often than not. Or warpath is not needed to begin with vs target I get to charge.

So I'm considering that with 2 weirdboys both have da jump. Gives more flexibility on who is target(especially as I rarely have room to deploy in one bulk. Terrain makes for roadblocks that way) and if one dies(with ork peril rule not that uncommon and if you have 2 wounds on weirdboy its dangerous to cast as perils=likely dead=lots of wounds around and failed casting so intact backup is handy.

Don't see why he should merge KMK's to one squad. He's likely not getting +1 anyway and having them separate gives flexibility in deployment.

Guess kommandos and stormboyz are for objective grabbing.

I agree, getting more useful units on the table will outweigh those extra CP.

All those units are pretty good. The problem is more woth the amount of units. You will go first less often and that's a serious drawback. Though, scoring becomes easier. Kommandoes and stormboyz are great at it.

Even if you replace stormboyz(which aren't even useless)&kommandos and combine KMK's to one unit(which limits deployment a lot making them easier to take out and even harming LOS so you might not be able to shoot at targets you want at all) you would be looking at over a dozen drops. +1 would be hardly quaranteed anyway.

Orks without transports I would not count on getting +1 anyway so I would concentrate on getting army that's good without that +1.

 Blackie wrote:
Why the brigade? We don't have stratagems or D6 damage weapons, there's no need of that many CPs.

I prefer giving up some useless CPs and give pks to the nobz since in units of 30 dudes with warpath, ghaz and the banner those klaws can do something and definitely worth 13 points. The min squad of boyz are ok with bare bones nobz instead.

I'd cut the min units of stormboyz, which I never liked. Alternatively I'd merge the KMKs into a single squad, or maybe two and all the stormboyz into a single squad as well.

If I get warpath and ghaz bonus and daisy chain back to the Banner Nob then a PK armed Nob will get 6 attacks (if his unit is over 20) he will get 4 hits and against a T7 vehicle he will get about 3 wounds. Armor save will stop 1 so 2 go through for D3 damage so 4 dmg on average. In my opinion that isn't worth 13pts, especially when so much has to happen to even get to that level of usefulness.

I am torn on the stormboyz myself, but I needed them to fill out the brigade detachment. I am taking a brigade btw because I tend to use A LOT of CP every turn. a single reroll per phase is 3 spent a turn. Using the Morale and stealing initiative strat is very useful and if I have that many CP I don't have to worry about picking and choosing my moments, I can take all of them.

I agree, getting more useful units on the table will outweigh those extra CP.

What more useful units? Boyz are literally the best we have and taking 2 battalions instead of a brigade wouldn't change that. The only "Useful" unit i don't have is tankbustas and that is because I refuse to take a trukk when I am trying to spam T4. Taking a trukk or a wagon will just give my opponent a nice juicy target for his heavy weapons. Conversely I could take less CC bonus models (Ghaz and Banner Nob) and take a cheap warboss and then use the saved 200ish pts to buy more stormboyz/kommandos but I am trying to limit my model count because of time constraints.

I would say that having the PK's are worth it, because it is still capable of dealing damage against a heavier target. Theoretically it is possible to have volume of attacks damage something heavier but realistically most of the hits will just bounce. That might only be 4 points of damage, but it is 4 points twice a turn, on your turn and his. If you mob up 2 squads and have 2 pk's in one squad, that's 16 points per turn.

I see your point about not taking the Trukk, but doesn't that leave your KMKs to take the full power of any AT? With no pks, your KMKs are going to be your only AT, but they will disappear fast.

SemperMortis wrote:


If I get warpath and ghaz bonus and daisy chain back to the Banner Nob then a PK armed Nob will get 6 attacks (if his unit is over 20) he will get 4 hits and against a T7 vehicle he will get about 3 wounds. Armor save will stop 1 so 2 go through for D3 damage so 4 dmg on average. In my opinion that isn't worth 13pts, especially when so much has to happen to even get to that level of usefulness.

Not sure about tournaments since I don't play 3 turns games but pks are a decent anti tank option. That 4 wounds caused on average must be multiplied since a nob in a 30 man squad can do his attacks more than a single time in a game and there are 4+ of them usually.

Sure replacing them with more KMKs is a more efficient option but who the hell owns tons of KMK? I have 6, which IMHO are already a lot but I always field all of them and still need the pks. With their current price and stats even 10-15 would be amazing but I don't know how many ork players can field such an artillery spam. And KMKs evaporate in a few turns if there are no vehicles in the list. Against lists that are heavy on anti tank I tipycally lose all my artillery within turn 2 if I play footsloggers.

The combination of some KMKs, smite and pks is the best anti tank we have since rokkits have extremely expensive platmforms. But again, I don't play 3 turns games and if an army that is designed basically on tying things up for three turns works well for you I wouldn't suggest changing anything since I have no real experience with that kind of games. I mean games in which tarpitting stuff isn't part of the strategy but the entire strategy.

Shrapnelbait wrote:
I would say that having the PK's are worth it, because it is still capable of dealing damage against a heavier target. Theoretically it is possible to have volume of attacks damage something heavier but realistically most of the hits will just bounce. That might only be 4 points of damage, but it is 4 points twice a turn, on your turn and his. If you mob up 2 squads and have 2 pk's in one squad, that's 16 points per turn.

I see your point about not taking the Trukk, but doesn't that leave your KMKs to take the full power of any AT? With no pks, your KMKs are going to be your only AT, but they will disappear fast.

T7 3+ save(btw above math said 3 wounds and 1 is bounced off. What T7 2+ guys guy is meeting? Anywya average for fist will be 4.44

Anyway ghaz+warpath basic boyz with nob banner will then cause 13 wounds.

Though good arqument against that is space. It's hard to cram that many models against that T7 guy in practice. But Even against T8 if you can get that's almost 7 wounds from choppa guys.

Big choppas can also be handy. D2 is helpful with W2/T4 targets and no -1 to hit is always nice. Plus cheaper.

 Blackie wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


If I get warpath and ghaz bonus and daisy chain back to the Banner Nob then a PK armed Nob will get 6 attacks (if his unit is over 20) he will get 4 hits and against a T7 vehicle he will get about 3 wounds. Armor save will stop 1 so 2 go through for D3 damage so 4 dmg on average. In my opinion that isn't worth 13pts, especially when so much has to happen to even get to that level of usefulness.

Not sure about tournaments since I don't play 3 turns games but pks are a decent anti tank option. That 4 wounds caused on average must be multiplied since a nob in a 30 man squad can do his attacks more than a single time in a game and there are 4+ of them usually.

Sure replacing them with more KMKs is a more efficient option but who the hell owns tons of KMK? I have 6, which IMHO are already a lot but I always field all of them and still need the pks. With their current price and stats even 10-15 would be amazing but I don't know how many ork players can field such an artillery spam. And KMKs evaporate in a few turns if there are no vehicles in the list. Against lists that are heavy on anti tank I tipycally lose all my artillery within turn 2 if I play footsloggers.

The combination of some KMKs, smite and pks is the best anti tank we have since rokkits have extremely expensive platmforms. But again, I don't play 3 turns games and if an army that is designed basically on tying things up for three turns works well for you I wouldn't suggest changing anything since I have no real experience with that kind of games. I mean games in which tarpitting stuff isn't part of the strategy but the entire strategy.

I never play 3 turns, I just use my horde to tie things up for 3+ turns so that I can score objectives on turns 4 or 5 and he his to far away to do much about it. I am a realist when I play tournaments and I know that tactically orkz have NOTHING that can really table an opponent and we struggle to beat gun lines. So the trick is to tie up shooty units as quickly a possible and to stop the enemy from gaining board control by swamping the board with cheap throw away infantry. Generally speaking I hope to kill at least half his army before my boyz are all shot to hell and destroyed but if not I can at least use my late scoring Kommandos and fast Stormboyz to seize an objective and hunker down in some cover, preferably LOS blocking terrain.

KMKs will be facing the brunt of the enemies firepower, so good point. The problem is the give and take of the situation. is it better to field 5 KMKs (all i have mind you) for about 200pts or should I take 3 units of 5 Lootas which I believe cost 85pts each...which would mean I need to take out some other stuff in order to fit them in my list. I just don't see 3 units of lootas doing HALF as much as 5 KMKs, and especially since you can pull some shenanigans with the Grot crews and have a crew basically immune to enemy firepower and scoring an objective. Plus, while a devestator squad will delete a KMK 9 times out of 10 it will also do the exact same to a 5 man unit of lootas and the KMK will still have his grot crew hanging around afterwards.

Thanks again to everyone offering constructive criticism.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Shrapnelbait wrote:
I would say that having the PK's are worth it, because it is still capable of dealing damage against a heavier target. Theoretically it is possible to have volume of attacks damage something heavier but realistically most of the hits will just bounce. That might only be 4 points of damage, but it is 4 points twice a turn, on your turn and his. If you mob up 2 squads and have 2 pk's in one squad, that's 16 points per turn.

I see your point about not taking the Trukk, but doesn't that leave your KMKs to take the full power of any AT? With no pks, your KMKs are going to be your only AT, but they will disappear fast.

T7 3+ save(btw above math said 3 wounds and 1 is bounced off. What T7 2+ guys guy is meeting? Anywya average for fist will be 4.44

Anyway ghaz+warpath basic boyz with nob banner will then cause 13 wounds.

Though good arqument against that is space. It's hard to cram that many models against that T7 guy in practice. But Even against T8 if you can get that's almost 7 wounds from choppa guys.

Big choppas can also be handy. D2 is helpful with W2/T4 targets and no -1 to hit is always nice. Plus cheaper.

I was rounding T7 3+ is the most common by far, but rounding brings it down to 4 on average. Also, keep in mind. If my Boyz are tied up in combat for several turns they are in fact winning! because my opponent can't leave a horde of boys near his other units so he has to either retreat the rest of his army (unlikely) or try to find a way to extricate his unit or reinforce it, I do my absolute best to tie up enemy vehicles and units so they can't run away.

Well 4 units of boyz isn't that tough. Good gun line will take that and some stormboyz to cripled state in 3 turns.

tneva82 wrote:
Well 4 units of boyz isn't that tough. Good gun line will take that and some stormboyz to cripled state in 3 turns.

Very good point, but the difference between 140 boyz and taking the full 180 isn't that big and 180 would drastically slow down my game and I don't want to be that guy at a tournament taking every game to Turn 3 and calling it. I really wish I had more Mek Gunz :( I would gladly field 12 or even 18.

Another week, another tuesday game coming up. This time I figured I'll want to try out flash gits for fun and 30 extra gretchings I have now. Waiting for remaining 70 to arrive! Also will have movement trays maybe to help with timing.

Battalion:

Warboss(6+++, choppa relic)
weirdboy(da jump)

2x30 boyz with klaws. 30 choppa, 20 choppa/10 shoota
25 grots

runtherd

Battalion:

Warboss(power klaw)
weirdboy(da jump)

2x30 boyz, klaw+big choppa, 30 shootas, 20 shoota/10 choppa
25 grots

2xpainboy

spearhead:

big mek w/KFF

battlewagon
7xflash git
8xloota
3xKMK(separate choices)

So gits start in battlewagon. They and lootas close and under field. Another painboy is closeby along with at least 1 boyz unit as well. Rest of boyz covered by second painboy. Grots are used either as 50 effectively morale immune screen/objective holder or da jump screen depending on opposite army and do I want to throw in totally sacrificial road block/objective holder or bit more real threat. Either way I have decent amount of wounds to hold around.

Due to non-miniature related issue I actually have tomorrow time so should even get game played full 3 hours or so rather than 2h that's been max before. Costs me about 10e more but I needed to pay that anyway so combo it with this as well. Yey.

Oh and 40k FB team teased orks by saying orks aren't that far off. Of course their "not that far off" could be november for all we know :(

So any thoughts as to whether orks will stick to 28mm bases or go to 32mm?

Daemons and Genestealers have been upped.

Stormboyz are 32mm also, correct?

so far all orks are 25mm. Hopefully GW won't nerf them by that though not that it matters for me. 25mm all the way for me

Some ork boy models just barely fit their bases, let alone lootaz, nobz or burnas. I'd not be surprised if they increase base sizes.

They better boost them up then to compensate. Though i don#t care. My models are on 25mm and won't go. I don't like to make game even less tactical 32mm bases would make. Boards are tof crowded as it is

tneva82 wrote:
They better boost them up then to compensate. Though i don#t care. My models are on 25mm and won't go. I don't like to make game even less tactical 32mm bases would make. Boards are tof crowded as it is

Plus I am loath to spend that much money and time to remodel all my orkz with 32mm bases...I just don't want to go buy several hundred bases and spend a week or 3 basing and reattaching them.

 Jidmah wrote:
Some ork boy models just barely fit their bases, let alone lootaz, nobz or burnas. I'd not be surprised if they increase base sizes.

That’s not how the current GW works.
We will get a new infantry of 32mm large orks and GW will come up with some lore how these orks are larger then the rest. I am fairly sure we will get prime orks at some point.

gungo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Some ork boy models just barely fit their bases, let alone lootaz, nobz or burnas. I'd not be surprised if they increase base sizes.

That’s not how the current GW works.
We will get a new infantry of 32mm large orks and GW will come up with some lore how these orks are larger then the rest. I am fairly sure we will get prime orks at some point.

Ive always liked the idea of making Ork boyz models 2 Wounds each that don't carry over. So a Lascannon can kill 1 wound off the boy and so on. Then limit squad size to 15. So you are left with the same amount of boyz, the same amount of wounds but you have 1/2 the models, this would cause some problems but I think it would REALLY speed the game up a bit, and it would allow Orkz to use this strange thing called cover. I read a historic tome from back in the day that said Orkz used to use cover all the time...weird.

If we could do that I would be fine with 32mm Bases.

Ohh, and of course, double the number of attacks and choppas give +2 to attack instead of +1 and then for morale count # of wounds not models.

If one of my boyz would become painted every time someone mentioned primaris/primarch orks, I would have a fully painted army.

SemperMortis wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
They better boost them up then to compensate. Though i don#t care. My models are on 25mm and won't go. I don't like to make game even less tactical 32mm bases would make. Boards are tof crowded as it is

Plus I am loath to spend that much money and time to remodel all my orkz with 32mm bases...I just don't want to go buy several hundred bases and spend a week or 3 basing and reattaching them.

I agree, whilst larger bases for StormBoyz make sense from a stability point of view, it's a grim thought to have to rebase my entire army. I understood that you could continue to play with the original bases that they came with if they changed though? If not, I suppose I'd have to do it, but it's a pain in the arse.

Maybe 32mm ork ard boy mobz will be a thing?

 Jidmah wrote:
If one of my boyz would become painted every time someone mentioned primaris/primarch orks, I would have a fully painted army.

I feel you brother. I spend so much time painting boyz models I become burned out and refuse to touch a can of paint for a week or longer

 r_squared wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
They better boost them up then to compensate. Though i don#t care. My models are on 25mm and won't go. I don't like to make game even less tactical 32mm bases would make. Boards are tof crowded as it is

Plus I am loath to spend that much money and time to remodel all my orkz with 32mm bases...I just don't want to go buy several hundred bases and spend a week or 3 basing and reattaching them.

I agree, whilst larger bases for StormBoyz make sense from a stability point of view, it's a grim thought to have to rebase my entire army. I understood that you could continue to play with the original bases that they came with if they changed though? If not, I suppose I'd have to do it, but it's a pain in the arse.

Maybe 32mm ork ard boy mobz will be a thing?

Tiny coins/metal junk to the bottom. Stability 100% fixed. Haven't had stormboy fall off after I glued those.

What models do you guys use for KMKs/Mek Guns/Big guns? Any alternate models or conversions you use besides the actual GW model?

tneva82 wrote:

 r_squared wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
They better boost them up then to compensate. Though i don#t care. My models are on 25mm and won't go. I don't like to make game even less tactical 32mm bases would make. Boards are tof crowded as it is

Plus I am loath to spend that much money and time to remodel all my orkz with 32mm bases...I just don't want to go buy several hundred bases and spend a week or 3 basing and reattaching them.

I agree, whilst larger bases for StormBoyz make sense from a stability point of view, it's a grim thought to have to rebase my entire army. I understood that you could continue to play with the original bases that they came with if they changed though? If not, I suppose I'd have to do it, but it's a pain in the arse.

Maybe 32mm ork ard boy mobz will be a thing?

Tiny coins/metal junk to the bottom. Stability 100% fixed. Haven't had stormboy fall off after I glued those.

Already done my friend, super glued pennies after the first time I tried to play with them yonks ago, works a treat. What I meant was that if they move orks to 32mm bases it will certainly help with that particular stability issue for new players. Everything else seems fine.

a few of my boyz have metal stikkbomb-throwing arms...I usually designate those ones as the first casualties, so I don't have to put up with the gits laying down on the job all the time!

 ZoBo wrote:
a few of my boyz have metal stikkbomb-throwing arms...I usually designate those ones as the first casualties, so I don't have to put up with the gits laying down on the job all the time!

I do the exact same thing

For stormboyz i have found that nickles work better, slightly bigger and more weight, granted they are 5x more expensive

 Billagio wrote:
What models do you guys use for KMKs/Mek Guns/Big guns? Any alternate models or conversions you use besides the actual GW model?

For the price of three sets of guns I was able to buy a 3d printer and print out a whole bunch

 davou wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
What models do you guys use for KMKs/Mek Guns/Big guns? Any alternate models or conversions you use besides the actual GW model?

For the price of three sets of guns I was able to buy a 3d printer and print out a whole bunch

Damn thats kinda a good idea. What printer did you use?

Anyone else have alternative model ideas?

MPselect mini is on amazon for sub 300 canadian right now. THe delta is there too and apparently it can do better detail faster.

I like the hobby of 3d so Im gonna upgrade really soon to a prusa.

1/8" x 3/4" fender washers are decent weight for bases plus they're magnetic for display/movement trays.

 Billagio wrote:
What models do you guys use for KMKs/Mek Guns/Big guns? Any alternate models or conversions you use besides the actual GW model?

My kannons and lobbas are from a bag of plastic civil war toys. It had 4 cannons and 4 mortars per bag for just above $12 and free shipping thanks to Amazon Prime membership. You need to remove a lot of flash before painting them, but they look really good after being painted and decorated with assorted bits from the bits box. A lot better than GW's ancients models anyways.

 Billagio wrote:
What models do you guys use for KMKs/Mek Guns/Big guns? Any alternate models or conversions you use besides the actual GW model?

I bought a Howitzer from Kromlech that I use as a Kannon/Lobba.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
What models do you guys use for KMKs/Mek Guns/Big guns? Any alternate models or conversions you use besides the actual GW model?

My kannons and lobbas are from a bag of plastic civil war toys. It had 4 cannons and 4 mortars per bag for just above $12 and free shipping thanks to Amazon Prime membership. You need to remove a lot of flash before painting them, but they look really good after being painted and decorated with assorted bits from the bits box. A lot better than GW's ancients models anyways.

Got a link to the models you bought? Im guessing they are an appropriate size?

Had nice game today. Got even good start from the get-go as today I was on car which meant no need to rush to the train which meant full time game! Have to consider for future. Costs about 10e per game that way but maybe worth it.

Anyway I took bit less optimized list for sake of more interesting list but as local games are friendly rather than cut throat that helps. Anyway standard warboss w/relic and 6+++(god I hope codex gives more options for warboss worth fielding). Another warboss w/power klaw, 2 weirdboys with da jump, big mek w/kff, 4x30 boyz. Bad moons w/all shootas, goffs with all choppas, evil sunz with 19 choppa/10 shoota and dethskulls with reverse ratio and big choppa nob. 2x25 grots, runtherd with squig, 2 painboys, 8 loota, 7 flashgit, battlewagon. That should have naked but thought it had big shoota but luckily it caused zero wounds through armour. Oh and 3 KMK. 2 battallions, 1 spearhead for 14 CP's.

I was up against familiar space wolf player. This was like 3rd game. He's one of the more casual players having armies that I could easily see myself using. Bit different this time with even MORE marines. He had warlord lietnaunt something, rune priest on jump pack, another on termi armour, 4 big squads of foot marines. 10-15 guys, blood claws and grey hunters present. devastator squad with 3 lascannon and missile launcher(s), another with plasma cannon(s) and 3 missile launcher(could they have 5 HW? Don't recall. Not that I suspect he cheats but I don't recall how many weapons they had! 3 lascannon on one and 3 missile launcher on one and then at least one plasma on missile squad and 1 missile on lascannon squad as minimum). BIG terminator squad with thunder hammers, fists and lightning claws. Dreadnought w/lascannon and fist with heavy flamer, 5 snipers.

I actually was up against list that was fairly good for me! I had some nice tools against this army. We rolled the race to 10 maelstroms.

As can be seen from photos I Finally have movement trays which were big help. Not just in terms of moving but it makes easy to calculate how many shootas/pistols I shoot! Unexpected bonus I hadn't thought! YES! Best miniature related purchases ever I think!

Deployment I think I really should start putting KMK's first as I run into space issues. On right side I had serious roadblock issue due to terrain there(he got to choose side. BTW terrain wise he put hills first, I put ruins next). I decided to put my shooty elements there as that was tough for boyz swarms so basically grot block and goffs were there along with battlewagon with flashgits and lootas. I got turn 1.

Turn 1: My objectives were not good. Get to his DZ, hold my DZ(not scorable first turn), get objective 5 which is dead center on his DZ...Yep. That ain't reachable short of some da jump and very high charge roll but I have other plans. I rush forward with advance on nearly everything. Psychic. Usually I would Da Jump boyz here and try to charge...Problem is that is 50-50 and if I fail and don't get to do some damage to his squads I get shot and charged and could easily lose 25% of my boyz...It's not worst gambles and wouldn't be disaster if I fail but I felt I could play the slow route here. So I employed some Mork's Kunning and Da Jumped the gretchin from my LEFT into front of 10 grey hunters on my far right. This aimed following things. a) prevent any chance of him charging my goffs period b) if he charges gretchin he opens up wrap up charge from gretchin c) I have 25 grots hitting on 3+ on shooting. I might even kill some. And if I shoot them enough I might even charge them. Sure they are in trouble but it locks them up for goff follow up charge next turn. So they went there.

Shooting. Lootas, KMK's and flashgits open up. Flash gits rip apart several grey hunters and grot take out one. Yey. Lascannon devastators lose some guys. Think I killed blood claw or two. Not biggest casualties yet but that grey hunter squad took up beating. And grots actually managed to charge! I wondered if I should risk it but figured stand&shoot won't kill all and they will still do their job and all the casualties meant unlikely I will get wiped out. Especially as I can use CP as only BAD result is getting wiped out and give easy charge against goffs. As it is grots take beating without killing anything(wounding on 6 sucks) but still healthy number left and those grey hunters are locked. Good. Alas I had 3 grots who didn't reach his DZ so didn't get behind the enemy lines objective(another reason I charged).

His turn. Mostly stands back. Psychic nothing. Shooting. Causes 5 wounds to battlewagon(think I saved one with reroll), kills some orks here and there but overall fairly light casualties. Dreadnought charged against gretchings but after combat few gretchins were STILL alive. Mwahaha. His objectives were worthless.

Turn 2. I moved forward with evil sunz and dethskulls but didn't advance. On right goffs rushed forward to charge against grey hunters. Second gretching block forms screen between blood claws and right side. Psychic. Da Jump is cast on bad moons sending the shoota boyz on my left flank against his grey hunters there. Shooting. Bad moons cause some casualties. Flash gits rip out with more dakka strategem against blood claws causing heavy casualties and gretchin again kill like 1. I killed 2 scouts as I realized those sniper rifles are annoying. I forgot to shoot lootas, dethskulls and evil sunz for some 30 shootas with grey hunters(I think) ahead of them....whooops. Combat. Bad moons charged grey hunters and killed all but 2. On right goffs charged grey hunters and killed several leaving like 2 left. Center with plenty casualties to blood claws and runtherd nearby gretchin charged blood claws to tie them up. Lost some, runtherd kept them in place. Next! Scored keep own DZ with 3 own units. On right dreadnought still finished to kill gretchins.

His turn. Objectives still suck(defend objectives I'm holding being story of his game...). Not much movement but terminators and the rune priest appear on right behind goffs. Goffs got bit nervous. Magic he sniped 2 goffs. I tried to push distance between them and terminators though 1 more would have been helpful. Shooting he dents battlewagon for 4 more wounds. Orks die here and there but overall casualties are well in acceptable. Combat. Terminators roll 6 and 1 for charge so he rerolls the 1 with CP and gets another 6 so terminators charged into rear of goffs. OUCH! Grey hunters charged dethskulls. Think I killed 1 or 2 in overwatch. Combat. He started with them and killed quite a few dethskulls. I intercepted and goffs struct finishing up grey hunters and killed 2 terminators. Yey! Too bad nob was in combat with the grey hunters. In return goffs got quite a beating leaving like dozen left there. Gretchins did die. Bad moons cleared the remaining 2 marines and dethskulls killed some more. I scored some kill based card.

Looking good. Turn 3. I got good cards as apart from secure 5 which was the one center of his DZ I got same AGAIN and also secure 6 which was where my flash gits were! However those terminators were a worry and no way in hell dozen goffs can do it. There's still 5 terminators there! KMK's are out of LOS due to terrain. What to do? Employ some more Mork's Kunning! That's what. First up. Goffs fell out of combat. So did gretchins vs blood claws forming loose line. Warlord rolled for advance and got 6 which was more than enough so I decided to try to use him to thin some terminators. Hopefully after shooting weakens them a bit! But overwatch is worry and well it IS 5 terminators so...More kunning idea's. Flash gits disembarked and battlewagon rushed forward. Figured I use that to eat assault cannon overwatch and tag one guy out of combat if warlord rolls well charge range.

Magic. I killed one blood claw with smite and da jumped evil suns into objective 5 for 2 vp's. Shooting. Bad moons shoot at 3 scouts and kill them in hail of shoota shots. KMK's kill I think 2 lascannons. Maybe something more. On right however shooting fails. Flash gits open up with 21 shots and get just 1 wound. Then 7 loota(1 didn't see) shoots 21 shots and kills none. BTW screwed up order. First D2 lootas, then D1 flashgits. 42 shots with -1 or -2 and just one wound...At this point warlord was "oh gak" but charged in anyway. Bad moons charged vs his warlord. Alas my charges completely whiffed though warlord only took 1 wound. Dethskulls finished up grey hunters.

His turn his objectives STILL sucked with defend 6(flash gits) etc. He killed gretchins and shot one KMK and this and that. Combat he killed my warlord but only barely but opted to quit. He was behind on vp's even with this 6-1 and I would be killing HIS warlord almost certainly(good luck surviving over 20 boyz with klaw nob forever). I had 2 more easily archievable objectives and he had none he really could. I would be hitting his terminators hard and he had basically no army left anymore!

Flash gits were surprisingly useful here. Sure not uber competive but if opponents aren't either that's less of issue and here I had very nice army to face with them with plenty of power armour assaulty units to blow. Gretchins also found good usage here. For him the terminators were biggest heroes and the terrain helped to keep them safe as I couldn't draw bead on them with KMK's. Though if that charge had failed he would have been in trouble.

 Orodhen wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
What models do you guys use for KMKs/Mek Guns/Big guns? Any alternate models or conversions you use besides the actual GW model?

I bought a Howitzer from Kromlech that I use as a Kannon/Lobba.

Wow, nice! I always thought Kromlech was very expensive but these babies are about half what GW charges for Mek Gunz. I think I'll still wait for the codex before buying any, but these bad boyz jumped to the top of my want list.

gotta keep in mind though, there's "mek gunz" and "big gunz"...those kromlech one fit the bill nicely for "big gunz"...not too sure about using them as "mek gunz" though, as they're a fair bit bulkier...

...another thing to keep in mind is that you will still need 5 grot models to go with any third-party/scratch-built mek gunz, whereas the GW ones come with them in the kit.

I still haven't gotten around to buying/making any mek gunz yet myself, and at this point, I think I'm just gonna stick it out until the codex comes out...because the cynical old git side of me is fully expecting some kind of nerf or points increase or something on them, sheerly because they're actually a decent option for us at the moment

 ZoBo wrote:
gotta keep in mind though, there's "mek gunz" and "big gunz"...those kromlech one fit the bill nicely for "big gunz"...not too sure about using them as "mek gunz" though, as they're a fair bit bulkier...

...another thing to keep in mind is that you will still need 5 grot models to go with any third-party/scratch-built mek gunz, whereas the GW ones come with them in the kit.

I still haven't gotten around to buying/making any mek gunz yet myself, and at this point, I think I'm just gonna stick it out until the codex comes out...because the cynical old git side of me is fully expecting some kind of nerf or points increase or something on them, sheerly because they're actually a decent option for us at the moment

LOL very true, I have 5 at the moment and they tend to appear in most of my lists. Ironically you hit the nail on the head, they are decent, not great. Specifically the KMK. I have yet to go an entire 5-6 round game where I don't lose at least 1 KMK to overheating itself. We REALLY need a way to negate that and to make those mek gunz either tougher or less a target priority.

It is a lot of fun though to watch the eldar player who let his Precious tanks meander a little too far out of cover and catch 5x D6 S8 shots to the face

tneva82 wrote:


I was up against familiar space wolf player. This was like 3rd game. He's one of the more casual players having armies that I could easily see myself using. Bit different this time with even MORE marines. He had warlord lietnaunt something, rune priest on jump pack, another on termi armour, 4 big squads of foot marines. 10-15 guys, blood claws and grey hunters present. devastator squad with 3 lascannon and missile launcher(s), another with plasma cannon(s) and 3 missile launcher(could they have 5 HW? Don't recall. Not that I suspect he cheats but I don't recall how many weapons they had! 3 lascannon on one and 3 missile launcher on one and then at least one plasma on missile squad and 1 missile on lascannon squad as minimum).

Another great report, thanks

About Long Fangs, each dude in the squad can carry a heavy weapon with the exception of the sargent who can only have special and combi weapons. So a full unit of 6 Long Fangs can be equipped with 5 heavy weapons.

 Blackie wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


I was up against familiar space wolf player. This was like 3rd game. He's one of the more casual players having armies that I could easily see myself using. Bit different this time with even MORE marines. He had warlord lietnaunt something, rune priest on jump pack, another on termi armour, 4 big squads of foot marines. 10-15 guys, blood claws and grey hunters present. devastator squad with 3 lascannon and missile launcher(s), another with plasma cannon(s) and 3 missile launcher(could they have 5 HW? Don't recall. Not that I suspect he cheats but I don't recall how many weapons they had! 3 lascannon on one and 3 missile launcher on one and then at least one plasma on missile squad and 1 missile on lascannon squad as minimum).

Another great report, thanks

About Long Fangs, each dude in the squad can carry a heavy weapon with the exception of the sargent who can only have special and combi weapons. So a full unit of 6 Long Fangs can be equipped with 5 heavy weapons.

Thanks. It was fun game. Too bad that type of marine lists aren't all that competive generally as I would like to play something like that. Though he was let down by horrible card luck with maelstroms getting defend objective X repeatedly which were always the ones I was swarming over(good luck with that...) or get into my dz. Well terminators could have scored that maybe but then would have done nothing else. When after 3 turns you have scored none and are holding only cards you can't really score it's real tough one. Meanwhile I lucked out getting 3 cards on turn 3.

I think he might have been tad too aggressive running ahead and charging the moment he got chance. This put orks in close combat(yey) and for example opened up that objective 5 for me to da jump for 2 vp's. Maybe back down and shoot. Ork shooting isn't THAT scary generally though I had more than usual(and flash gits were actually bloody murder here but albeit I was up against prime target for them. Swarms of foot power armour!).

Also his army was pretty darn ideal target for my gretchin walls Those 50 gretchins were worth their weight. Even if I did some non-orthodox. Both units charging up into combat is not something I usually do But first time it was fairly risk free and maybe get some more grey hunters dead and maybe get that objective, on 2nd time wanted to make damned sure the blood claws aren't crashing into goffs. With runtherd blood claws would be unlikely to kill them all. Especially after flash gits cleared whole bunch of them.

I'm really looking forward to codex with flash gits. Good price drop and these could be nice unit. Maybe some strategem that helps or rework more dakka to better one. But ability to put some world hurt on enemy from range is surprisingly useful as it really limited the amount of damage those charging marine blocks could do to my units.

I feel badrukk is a real nice buffer for the gitz, that 1s reroll is gold. Not sure if he is worth the points for a 5 man squad tho.

Problem in codex will be bad moon clan. Could require some creative list fitting and of course no idea yet what the bad moons will do. With bad luck they are so bad you don't want to take them anyway even if flashgits with Badrukk were gold.

He has a mean gun with re-rolls built in, he is more likely to make back his points than the gitz are.

Does anyone else find that their Warboss rarely gets into melee? I might be playing it wrong, but in order to protect him, I have to keep him buried in packs of boyz, then he never quite seems to get there before the fight is over.

Should I be looking to make the Warboss as cheap as possible? Is there any models, third party or otherwise that do a good Warboss with big choppa?

Yeah that's bit of issue. Need to be careful where you go and don't charge with 2 against stuff that can kill one. Though relic one is fun.

Shrapnelbait wrote:
Does anyone else find that their Warboss rarely gets into melee? I might be playing it wrong, but in order to protect him, I have to keep him buried in packs of boyz, then he never quite seems to get there before the fight is over.

Should I be looking to make the Warboss as cheap as possible? Is there any models, third party or otherwise that do a good Warboss with big choppa?

If you’re having issues like this give him killchoppa and bike.
Or take zhardsnark

It’s praxtically impossible to not get the charge with zhardsnark since he moves about 30in a turn. He’s also a character you want that +1 atk warlord trait on as well.
I tend to play 20 stormboys w nob w pk lead by warboss on bike w killchoppa

30-40 Boyz w 1-2 nobs w bc da jumped by zhardsnark

Meka dread w either kff/rattler if I need him to be bullet magnet or mega charga and 2 klaws if want melee threat.
4x kmk mek guns because that’s all I have

Beyond that I fill the rest of the points what I want to play with. we have the melee ability initially but we lack durability and lose offensive power quickly as we get whittled down. The only model I find that maintains offense while being defensive enough to survive is ghaz but he does lack mobility.

Shrapnelbait wrote:
Does anyone else find that their Warboss rarely gets into melee? I might be playing it wrong, but in order to protect him, I have to keep him buried in packs of boyz, then he never quite seems to get there before the fight is over.

Should I be looking to make the Warboss as cheap as possible? Is there any models, third party or otherwise that do a good Warboss with big choppa?

Most definitely have had this problem, I also to a lesser extent have this problem with Ghaz, but unlike the warboss, Ghaz can take a beating with his 4+ Invuln and having a Painboy nearby helps. But honestly when I use ghaz, most often the first 3 turns hes a buffer not a fighter, and turn 4-5 he tends to eat something very important and make me happy

Shrapnelbait wrote:
Does anyone else find that their Warboss rarely gets into melee? I might be playing it wrong, but in order to protect him, I have to keep him buried in packs of boyz, then he never quite seems to get there before the fight is over.

Should I be looking to make the Warboss as cheap as possible? Is there any models, third party or otherwise that do a good Warboss with big choppa?

Yes, but the Warboss is mostly a support unit in my opinion so it not crustal to get it into CC. As for an alternative model with big choppa, the AoS Mega-boss is good.

Shrapnelbait wrote:
Does anyone else find that their Warboss rarely gets into melee? I might be playing it wrong, but in order to protect him, I have to keep him buried in packs of boyz, then he never quite seems to get there before the fight is over.

Should I be looking to make the Warboss as cheap as possible? Is there any models, third party or otherwise that do a good Warboss with big choppa?

Yes and no. My warboss has never been a front line fighter, that's what boys are for. He is tooled to kill vehicles or infantry and mostly finishes off vehicles or small units that get too far on my side of the field.
I never have him fight anything that isn't partly damaged/wounded. It's an old habit. Over the years he would be used to destroy things like Land Raiders or critically wound things so the boys could finish that target off but this usually resulted in my War Bosses death. I stopped doing that a few editions ago. No reason to give up warlord by throwing mine away.

SemperMortis wrote:

Shrapnelbait wrote:
Does anyone else find that their Warboss rarely gets into melee? I might be playing it wrong, but in order to protect him, I have to keep him buried in packs of boyz, then he never quite seems to get there before the fight is over.

Should I be looking to make the Warboss as cheap as possible? Is there any models, third party or otherwise that do a good Warboss with big choppa?

Most definitely have had this problem, I also to a lesser extent have this problem with Ghaz, but unlike the warboss, Ghaz can take a beating with his 4+ Invuln and having a Painboy nearby helps. But honestly when I use ghaz, most often the first 3 turns hes a buffer not a fighter, and turn 4-5 he tends to eat something very important and make me happy

I agree, and this is the reason why I usually use standard warbosses or Zhad instead of Ghaz. 215 points for a buffer than usually is 1 max 2 turns in combat is too much IMHO. With the same number of points I can field a warboss, a weirdboy and a banner nob or alternatively a biker boss, a painboy and a banner nob or weirdboy. Still very useful but not the beast is supposed to be.

I think Ghaz should work with lists with transports since units embarked don't get the +1A for being 20+ models and Ghaz could reach combat sooner but transports and other stuff are utterly exensive and adding another super expensive unit to the lot simply doesn't work.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/01/codexes-kings-cawdors-and-more/

Orkses are coming. Together with wolves once again.

 koooaei wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/01/codexes-kings-cawdors-and-more/

Orkses are coming. Together with wolves once again.

Please let this be true. July maybe?

Well obviously it's true. It's official announcement. Late july earliest i would say

tneva82 wrote:
Well obviously it's true. It's official announcement. Late july earliest i would say

True yeah I just realized that. The announcement was that Orks and SW are next, does that mean one will be before the other or will it be a joint release?

I’d presume one then the other. Hopefully we get an end of June release in preparation for the summer.

That would be fantastic, but I think we would have heard more leaks/rumors about either codex before now if it was end of june, no?

Regardless, hopefully we are first

IT’s HAPPENING!!!!!!

WAAAGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

I kinda feel bad for genestealer cults.. they specifically didn’t announce a codex but instead a single abomination model so people don’t need to buy deathwatch boxed game for it.... does that mean no codex for them anytime soon?
It also put a Kabash on any other Xenos codex in the future by saying that was the only Xenos codex left.
But that leaves imperial (agents of imperium, sisters of battle); chaos (khorne, slannesh) codexs open.

Either way, this is great news. I was just planning on putting a new order in with GW but that’ll be put on hold until the codex comes out. Hopefully a few new units are on the way.

Hell, its about time. I'm hoping there's new models or at least revamped ones for some of the older models in our range *glares at warbuggies* given how long we've waited. We'll finally have something to spend our CP's on besides rerolls for once!

I was just wondering about the Ork Codex this morning, and now this. Funny how that happened.

gungo wrote:
IT’s HAPPENING!!!!!!

WAAAGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

I kinda feel bad for genestealer cults.. they specifically didn’t announce a codex but instead a single abomination model so people don’t need to buy deathwatch boxed game for it.... does that mean no codex for them anytime soon?
It also put a Kabash on any other Xenos codex in the future by saying that was the only Xenos codex left.
But that leaves imperial (agents of imperium, sisters of battle); chaos (khorne, slannesh) codexs open.

I think they just mean for xenos that dont have a codex so there is alway hope for new xenos factions in the future.

I am happy the ork codex is now announced and my prediction in end of june as then it would fall in line with some other rumors. I can seeing it being pushed to end july though with the AoS 2nd ed. coming this month.

I was at a Tourny with 108 people playing. And the only ork player made it to 5th place with about 200 boys. Is this really the only way for orks ATM?

 nordsturmking wrote:
I was at a Tourny with 108 people playing. And the only ork player made it to 5th place with about 200 boys. Is this really the only way for orks ATM?

For competitive orks, mostly yes.

 nordsturmking wrote:
I was at a Tourny with 108 people playing. And the only ork player made it to 5th place with about 200 boys. Is this really the only way for orks ATM?

Pretty much yes. Boyz, stormboyz and kmk's are only viable units ln competive enviroment. And you still often need to slowplay. Otherwise you get blown out anyway

Can't wait for that sweet, sweet codex!

I'm hoping we get some new models as well though, otherwise why keep our codex until last?

Also we're missing a ton of stuff that needs to be replaced/updated/created.

Im hoping Flash Gits are good this time. Their models are so damn cool, shame they rarely see the tabletop

 Billagio wrote:
Im hoping Flash Gits are good this time. Their models are so damn cool, shame they rarely see the tabletop

Hefty point drop would be nice.

If meta was more of foot assault meq that would help flash gits a lot.

WAAAGH!

Really looking forward to the new codex as well.

 Billagio wrote:
Im hoping Flash Gits are good this time. Their models are so damn cool, shame they rarely see the tabletop

I hope so too. I want Battlewagons with lots of dakka and all the Ork artillery to be good as well. I love all Orks and collect all if the clans, but I love Bad Moons best.

I know it's not going to happen, but I'd love to see looted vehicles/units return in a real fashion - it's one of the things that endeared me to Orks when I was first starting out; I loved that they could just straight up "loot" other armies options; albeit at worse shooting, and potential movement penalties. It was fun discovering the options other factions had to take from, as well as all the potential combos.

Also, I really hope shooting Orks are emphasized - they're another thing that drew me to Orks as well; DAKKA! DAKKA! DAKKA!!!

All they have to do is leave Boyz alone (so Green Tide is still a legitimate and viable strategy), and buff the shooting/vehicle sections of the armies. Stormboyz and Kommandos are well priced enough as well; you're paying a premium, but that's for Boyz with more movement options.

I'm really excited - WAAAAAAAGH!!!!

 Billagio wrote:
What models do you guys use for KMKs/Mek Guns/Big guns? Any alternate models or conversions you use besides the actual GW model?

I made these six with two truck kits, three spark plugs, and some random guns I had liying around.

Let's all pray to Mork that the book is balanced and fun.

Don't pray to Gork, though...he'll just make it 200 pages of boyz.

 Billagio wrote:
Im hoping Flash Gits are good this time. Their models are so damn cool, shame they rarely see the tabletop

This has been posted before every ork codex release since 4th edition

To be fair, they have gotten better with every release... just not good enough.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Im hoping Flash Gits are good this time. Their models are so damn cool, shame they rarely see the tabletop

This has been posted before every ork codex release since 4th edition

To be fair, they have gotten better with every release... just not good enough.

I'm all in on the dakka, really hoping we get an improvement to our shooting phase, I'd love a buff for the mega-nobz, I've held off buying them but I love the models. I really think they just need to nail the klans, if they can make it so each klan has their own style and through that optimal list (dakka/choppa/walker/speedy) they can release every flavor of power-armor till next edition without a complaint from me :p

 CaffeineIsGood wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Im hoping Flash Gits are good this time. Their models are so damn cool, shame they rarely see the tabletop

This has been posted before every ork codex release since 4th edition

To be fair, they have gotten better with every release... just not good enough.

I'm all in on the dakka, really hoping we get an improvement to our shooting phase, I'd love a buff for the mega-nobz, I've held off buying them but I love the models. I really think they just need to nail the klans, if they can make it so each klan has their own style and through that optimal list (dakka/choppa/walker/speedy) they can release every flavor of power-armor till next edition without a complaint from me :p

Hoping for BS4 Blood Axes. That's my single wish.

Scraps of information on the ork codex:

 endtransmission wrote:
For the orks, they wouldn’t confirm what new models, but did say that, following the tend of all the recent coded releases there will be models to go with the orks and that they would no longer be an awful army.

 endtransmission wrote:
Can’t remember the exact wording but they did admit it was a pretty bad army and that the new book would rectify that

So apparently they at least think that orks are in bad state and they are trying to get it right.

 CaffeineIsGood wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Im hoping Flash Gits are good this time. Their models are so damn cool, shame they rarely see the tabletop

This has been posted before every ork codex release since 4th edition

To be fair, they have gotten better with every release... just not good enough.

I'm all in on the dakka, really hoping we get an improvement to our shooting phase, I'd love a buff for the mega-nobz, I've held off buying them but I love the models. I really think they just need to nail the klans, if they can make it so each klan has their own style and through that optimal list (dakka/choppa/walker/speedy) they can release every flavor of power-armor till next edition without a complaint from me :p

Agreed, something akin to IG regimental doctrines would be nice. That way you can have multiple detacements each with its own Klan doctrine, with your army made up of multiple klans if you want (like a proppa WAAAGH!)

 techsoldaten wrote:

 CaffeineIsGood wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Im hoping Flash Gits are good this time. Their models are so damn cool, shame they rarely see the tabletop

This has been posted before every ork codex release since 4th edition

To be fair, they have gotten better with every release... just not good enough.

I'm all in on the dakka, really hoping we get an improvement to our shooting phase, I'd love a buff for the mega-nobz, I've held off buying them but I love the models. I really think they just need to nail the klans, if they can make it so each klan has their own style and through that optimal list (dakka/choppa/walker/speedy) they can release every flavor of power-armor till next edition without a complaint from me :p

Hoping for BS4 Blood Axes. That's my single wish.

I can’t see blood axes gain a shooting buff

Blood axes are hopefully the -1 to hit buff (sneaky)
Goff some type of assault or charge buff
Snakebite fnp
Badmoon likely some type of shooting buff
Deathskull some type of vehicle/transport/looting
Evil suns movement/speed buff

If we are lucky we get a freebooter trait as well even though they are clanless

 Billagio wrote:

 CaffeineIsGood wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Im hoping Flash Gits are good this time. Their models are so damn cool, shame they rarely see the tabletop

This has been posted before every ork codex release since 4th edition

To be fair, they have gotten better with every release... just not good enough.

I'm all in on the dakka, really hoping we get an improvement to our shooting phase, I'd love a buff for the mega-nobz, I've held off buying them but I love the models. I really think they just need to nail the klans, if they can make it so each klan has their own style and through that optimal list (dakka/choppa/walker/speedy) they can release every flavor of power-armor till next edition without a complaint from me :p

Agreed, something akin to IG regimental doctrines would be nice. That way you can have multiple detacements each with its own Klan doctrine, with your army made up of multiple klans if you want (like a proppa WAAAGH!)

Oh that's given. I'll be needing to buy and paint 150 more boyz to fit that as if 210 wasn#t enough


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
[

Blood axes are hopefully the -1 to hit buff (sneaky)
Goff some type of assault or charge buff
Snakebite fnp
Badmoon likely some type of shooting buff
Deathskull some type of vehicle/transport/looting
Evil suns movement/speed buff

If we are lucky we get a freebooter trait as well even though they are clanless

I doubt -1 to hit. Gw has stayed out of those after eldar. Maybe they realized how bad idea it is. Would also invalidate all others.