Well so much for improvement in the distribution system. My FLGS had to cancel and refund mine and everyone else's orders for the Sector Imperialis box because they will be receiving zero (0) boxes due to a distribuator (GW) error.
As for my GW direct orders, they still show processing even though they are set to ship directly to store and so be ready for pickup this Saturday. Now getting a bit nervous that more GW distribution woes are impacting LI orders accross the board.
Has anyone else in the US heard or seeing something similar from either their FLGS or GW?
Lord of Deeds wrote: Well so much for improvement in the distribution system. My FLGS had to cancel and refund mine and everyone else's orders for the Sector Imperialis box because they will be receiving zero (0) boxes due to a distribuator (GW) error.
As for my GW direct orders, they still show processing even though they are set to ship directly to store and so be ready for pickup this Saturday. Now getting a bit nervous that more GW distribution woes are impacting LI orders accross the board.
Has anyone else in the US heard or seeing something similar from either their FLGS or GW?
My LI starter arrived at my shop but I'm still waiting on the battleforces that should have arrived last week. GW told the shop they are getting them for sure but no idea when.
For direct order I'm in the exact same situation as you as I ordered the bases but still only in processing.
Retailer 1 Core Box
Retailer 2 Core Box
Retailer 3, assorted pile of additional boxes, with a note regards Building Ruins, out of stock but will come into stock down line.
leopard wrote: this sort of distribution stuff is a really bad look for an organisation the size of GW
as if anyone recognises GW as a big company
people still react like this are 5 people working from their basement
Ah yes. Gw is small company obviously so all is fine.
Naah companies size of gw and even smaller gets deliveries in time. But gw screwed up something this year
and last year, and the year before, and the year before
it just affects more and more people while in the past it was seen as a non-issue and must be the customer's fault
they have major issues since 2018, yet during the last 5 years it was never seen as GWs fault but always something else
Got dispatch notices from UK retailer for Core Box + multiple kits (SM infantry, Rhinos, Kratos), and from French retailer for Ruined buildings.
I've a second order from the UK retailer for more Kratos + some SA that has not shipped yet, as well as from GW for Tiles & cards.
My wife's order from GW (core box + cards) has not shipped either.
To be fair there were a couple of years of Covid madness and I suspect shipping is still a nightmare for GW (and I notice that a lot of the worst problems are overseas). But yeah it does seem that their warehousing is causing issues; which is then doubly surprising that they'd release a new webstore interface with its own issues to compound the issue.
Overread wrote: To be fair there were a couple of years of Covid madness and I suspect shipping is still a nightmare for GW (and I notice that a lot of the worst problems are overseas). But yeah it does seem that their warehousing is causing issues; which is then doubly surprising that they'd release a new webstore interface with its own issues to compound the issue.
During covid GW still sent in stock items quickly and stores got new releases in time. Sure stuff was out of stock and still is a lot but that's separate to now which is even existing stock not moving in time and even getting order cancelled because delivery got delayed(presumably automatically "if not sent in X days cancel order" trigger was met)
Stormonu wrote: I can no longer find anything on GW's damn new web site....Sounds like LI has been released now?
Official release day is tomorrow (Saturday 2nd).
local shop has had them in since Tuesday, but not allowed to distribute. have my pre-order to come and collect notice through for tomorrow, suspect they may be busy, think they have shifted ~100 boxes of it, plus smaller boxes
Have had a couple of mates not getting their core set dispatched from Element today due to a late dispatch from GW. Apparently they will be arriving with Element on Monday. No idea what percentage of orders this delay has hit, hopefully it is minimal.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Have had a couple of mates not getting their core set dispatched from Element today due to a late dispatch from GW. Apparently they will be arriving with Element on Monday. No idea what percentage of orders this delay has hit, hopefully it is minimal.
My Element order with the core box shipped a few hours ago, so I'll be praying that the postman makes it through the snow tomorrow!
Sadly my extra vehicles from Wayland show no sign of moving yet, so the practice games next week might need to use classic epic models instead.
FLGS got in plenty of everything to cover all our orders, EXCEPT Rhinos... Four extra boxes of Baneblades, Kratos etc beyond what was needed for preorders, and yet ONE box of Rhinos total, including those who preordered, meaning most people needed partial refunds.
Strangely the online discounter I usually buy from reported the same where I easily bought a few extra kits pretty late, but Rhinos were essentially gone after minute one.
Most likely Rhinos are heavily in demand as something people buy several of whilst things like Baneblades might be the kind of thing people buy one or two of right now .
GW must have underestimated how many rhinos people would want. They probably figured 1-2 boxes of rhinos max per player, if that, only for every player to turn around and buy 3-4 boxes lol.
They’re also using rhinos for the monthly free miniature so that’s a few extra boxes out of the pipeline for each GW store. Not sure how many people pick those up.
Local store has been shorted on the core set with Gw saying it’s coming next week.
I’ve got several gw direct orders for tomorrows release and none of those have shipped to Warhammer World either.
It’s bonkers - I have stores on Facebook with excess of most stuff , the others didn’t get what they had paid orders for. There’s people on here missing Rhinos but I bought a box from a place with several spares this afternoon that’s shipped already.
I guarantee that the heresy assault unit is going to be a mess up akin to the jetbikes screw up where some FLGS didn’t get preorders until months later.
Duskland wrote: They’re also using rhinos for the monthly free miniature so that’s a few extra boxes out of the pipeline for each GW store. Not sure how many people pick those up.
Miniatures of the Month are cast specifically for that purpose.
I am in Northern Virginia for a blood bowl tourney tomorrow and we stopped by the FLGS here and they had received their full order of LI. My FLGS in Southern Va also received their full order where my box is sitting waiting for me. So maybe its a regional thing? Not sure but its certainly not getting shorted across the board.
it's kinda expected that gw would fu.. themselves with the delivery part of an already failed attempt at reviving an old time classic...it's like the phrase "I expected nothing and I'm still disappointed"...on the other hand, my rhinos will be converted (with a little tinkering) into predators and, if the future allows it razorbacks and whirlwinds with just a swap of turrets so...i hope everything arrives ok from my FLGS by next week or so.
It looks like stores in Australia have stock, so in the end they maybe didn't need to delay the Australian release by a week.
Though these days, stores often don't send out stock until release day, which is a Saturday, so you often don't get it until the middle of the following week anyway. Not like back in the day when you'd get it arriving at your house a few days before release.
I get the frustration of having to wait due to the original delay but some of y'all act like this is the only time you'll be able to get any of this stuff.
There will be restock (likely after the holidays of course) and in lieu of that, just buy it for 3x the price off of scalpers. /s
Besides, the expansion that'll have all the bastion options, stuff like drop pods, etc, likely wont come out any time soon so what's the rush?
The whole point of Games Workshop moving to a two week preorder window was to sort out the delivery issues. Which still aren’t sorted.
It’s not just bad for customers but bad for the FLGS that are randomly affected each release - they disappoint customers and potentially lose them customers , in some cases they’ll have to refund the customer who will go elsewhere and they then may struggle to sell that stock.
drbored wrote: I get the frustration of having to wait due to the original delay but some of y'all act like this is the only time you'll be able to get any of this stuff.
There will be restock (likely after the holidays of course) and in lieu of that, just buy it for 3x the price off of scalpers. /s
Besides, the expansion that'll have all the bastion options, stuff like drop pods, etc, likely wont come out any time soon so what's the rush?
Well for me the thing is if GW doesn't manage to deliver by next week thursday latest(and wednesday is national holiday) to the FLGS(seeing launch day was today not too much to ask now is it...) I can't get them on my hand this year at all(and store has to keep items I had reserved in place way longer than usually they keep for extra inconvenience...) which in turn I will likely miss planned first game time quite possibly pushing that to february.
So yeah GW still not having got their act together is irritating. Tyranid already was like that delaying me using them in league by month. It's pretty much every release I have wanted past 6 months that DOESN'T come on launch day.
I was hoping to paint them this year. Not next year because GW can't deliver them to FLGS in promised time.
H.B.M.C. wrote: If anyone gets hold of the itty bitty Rhino, can they post here exactly how much it weighs?
Just got back from my local GW. The rhino was clipped from sprue in a box, not a specific sprue made to give away free. For the box I got my digital kitchen scale reads 10g, just the bits inside are 4g. As they were clipped in store, and there are options in the kit, YMMV.
This is a kitchen scale, not a postal one. Not sure how accurate it is at this level. +/- a gram or so at the very least.
Yeah, was just hopping on to also confirm the free Rhinos are just clipped parts rattling around in a box. That must have been a real boring afternoon for the store dude.
Prometheum5 wrote: Yeah, was just hopping on to also confirm the free Rhinos are just clipped parts rattling around in a box. That must have been a real boring afternoon for the store dude.
What, they didn't let you cut it off the sprue yourself? I had to self-service myself, but that was actually good since I could make sure I nipped enough gates intact to make cleanup perfect later on.. I also got to choose my cupola weapon options which was nice
Well, just great. They borked the formatting in the ebook for multi-page pictures. I didn't have this problem with any of the previous ebooks.
Spoiler:
This is with Lithium on my android tablet. It looks similarly weird with Calibre on the PC, but that has never displayed the epub3 files particularly well.
The 2nd page of multi-page spreads looks OK, but all of the 1st pages are messed up.
A number of stores in my area received their LI shipments but the GW store I pre-ordered from did not. :(
I did, however, manage to score a bunch of free Rhinos by visiting the GW stores in my area.
Spoiler:
Prometheum5 wrote: Oh no, our store had a ton of them already boxed up in the little promo boxes. I didn't check if it included extra cupolas or such yet.
Yea, as you can see from the image above, some were assembled while others were just bits. Loadout is completely random.
It's also a little irritating because some of them just can't be bothered to properly clean (trim sprue contacts) the pieces before assembling them. One of them has heinous gaps and they were glued with plastic cement so... gg me?
SgtEeveell wrote: Well, just great. They borked the formatting in the ebook for multi-page pictures. I didn't have this problem with any of the previous ebooks.
Spoiler:
This is with Lithium on my android tablet. It looks similarly weird with Calibre on the PC, but that has never displayed the epub3 files particularly well.
The 2nd page of multi-page spreads looks OK, but all of the 1st pages are messed up.
,
Man, that's funny but sorta sad too, like they had how much extra time with the delay and not one person at GW did any QA on the epub at all? The rulebook is reading too like the author just went off their adderal, paragraphs feel like a child telling a story punctuated with "and then". It's been an odd afternoon, terrain really needs untangling.
I have to keep teaching this lesson - white spirit will loosen the plastic weld. If you're a grognard know it all you'll ignore me and say it's a permanent weld. It isnt, the spirit infiltrates and allows a usually perfect pop free.
axotl wrote: I have to keep teaching this lesson - white spirit will loosen the plastic weld. If you're a grognard know it all you'll ignore me and say it's a permanent weld. It isnt, the spirit infiltrates and allows a usually perfect pop free.
I did not know that and will definitely have to try this on some 'un-un-glueable' models I have.
My first starter was put in the mail at midnight Friday. Gues CMO holds to release date very literally. It should arrive Monday. My local game store confirmed he was able to get me my larger order, but it will be some time this week.
i also drove to Ann Arbor, Mi and north of Detroit to visit the two closest GW stores. Ann Arbor had plenty of rhinos to give out and since the family was with me I got 3. However he had no LI stock to sell. He had only gotten his personal order and 2 starter sets which were gone immediately. I did get to see the mins however and they were awesome. (The store assembled all 120 rhinos randomly, but they look pretty good.)
The store in Rochester Hills did not get any rhinos to give out but got 4 starter boxes which also disappeared. Nothing else to sell and a regular was there looking for his order that never came in. So US distribution is not going so well.
I’m still waiting to hear anything about my GW order (placed right after the opening of preorders). I do have a starter box preorder and two boxes of baneblades that have arrived at my lgs I’ll pick up on Thursday.
Lord of Deeds wrote: Well so much for improvement in the distribution system. My FLGS had to cancel and refund mine and everyone else's orders for the Sector Imperialis box because they will be receiving zero (0) boxes due to a distribuator (GW) error.
Has anyone else in the US heard or seeing something similar from either their FLGS or GW?
Same here in Germany,
my FLGS ordered the Sector box and the Boards, but got it canceled by GW (set on 0) for no reason.
Also one of the store staff yesterday was joking, because the internal delivering confirmation noted shipment to them on December 31, 2900...
My preordered copy of LI and Kratos squadron didn’t turn up to the GW shop today, was told it’ll be early-mid next week. Store guy is great, GW couldn’t organise a game release if their life depended on it.
Wordy wrote: My preordered copy of LI and Kratos squadron didn’t turn up to the GW shop today, was told it’ll be early-mid next week. Store guy is great, GW couldn’t organise a game release if their life depended on it.
GW Delivery FAQ wrote:What Is A Pre-Order?
New products are available to pre-order on our webstore almost every Saturday. Pre-orders will usually dispatch after the official launch day.
This is why I don’t preorder direct, unless it’s an exclusive item. Well, that and the independent stockists are generally cheaper.
I'm currently reading through the rules and did I get it correct that you can't premeasure shooting attacks in this game? It says you choose the firing detachment and the target, then the weapons and then you measure the distance and compare if your weapons are in range. It doesn't specify if you can't measure before that but I would assume so based on the wording.
Matrindur wrote: I'm currently reading through the rules and did I get it correct that you can't premeasure shooting attacks in this game? It says you choose the firing detachment and the target, then the weapons and then you measure the distance and compare if your weapons are in range. It doesn't specify if you can't measure before that but I would assume so based on the wording.
Measuring Distances
In Legions Imperialis, distances are measured in inches (")
using a tape measure or range ruler. Players can measure
distances whenever they wish during the course of
a battle
Matrindur wrote: I'm currently reading through the rules and did I get it correct that you can't premeasure shooting attacks in this game? It says you choose the firing detachment and the target, then the weapons and then you measure the distance and compare if your weapons are in range. It doesn't specify if you can't measure before that but I would assume so based on the wording.
If it is worded in that way, I would say that no pre-measuring is permitted. Having a line saying "no pre-measuring is allowed" would probably have helped though..
That would also line it up with SM2 version of the game, although I know some things have changed.
Matrindur wrote: I'm currently reading through the rules and did I get it correct that you can't premeasure shooting attacks in this game? It says you choose the firing detachment and the target, then the weapons and then you measure the distance and compare if your weapons are in range. It doesn't specify if you can't measure before that but I would assume so based on the wording.
If it is worded in that way, I would say that no pre-measuring is permitted. Having a line saying "no pre-measuring is allowed" would probably have helped though..
That would also line it up with SM2 version of the game, although I know some things have changed.
It doesn't say premeasuring is allowed/disallowed because rule is said long time ago in section "core principles". Refer above
Having "no premeasuring allowed" rule in that part would be irrelevant as you have specific rule allowing you to measure at any point of the game.
Does someone have issues with the package quality of Orders?
There is a rising number of customers here in the German Community, complaining about issues with LI-Products, from broken and missing parts over damaged Rulebooks and Decals, and that their Boxed sets are only sealed by stickers instead of plastic foil.
RazorEdge wrote: Does someone have issues with the package quality of Orders?
There is a rising number of customers here in the German Community, complaining about issues with LI-Products, from broken and missing parts over damaged Rulebooks and Decals, and that their Boxed sets are only sealed by stickers instead of plastic foil.
if the boxes were indeed repacked after replacing the old rule books which is rumoured to be (one of) the causes of the delayed release it wouldn't surprise me to see more damage than usual,
and as said above the shrink wrap being replaced by a couple of stickers to keep boxes closed is intended to minimise plastic use, and has been complained about for a whole bunch of other manufacturers as well (and for a lot of boardgames too)
RazorEdge wrote: Does someone have issues with the package quality of Orders?
There is a rising number of customers here in the German Community, complaining about issues with LI-Products, from broken and missing parts over damaged Rulebooks and Decals, and that their Boxed sets are only sealed by stickers instead of plastic foil.
Yeah boxes only being sealed by stickers has been the case for a while and works good enough normally so thats not the reason for damages.
It seems the LI box is especially prone to problems and my box seems to have gotten everything at one. I have 6 missing bases, one missing space marine model and one of the predator cannons destroyed itself while still holding onto the sprue
Also alot of rivets and small details got pressed flat/sheared off as if something heavy was laying on the sprues but since the box isn't packed as tightly as some others before, which didn't have that problem, I think that likely happened when they switched out the books and not during shipping.
Would also explain the abnormally high rate of missing/broken parts I see on social media
RazorEdge wrote: Boxed sets are only sealed by stickers instead of plastic foil.
This has been a thing for a while, due to the EU ban on single-use plastics IIRC.
Manufacturers and retailers have been attempting to cut down – rightly – on plastic packaging for some time, some of it prompted by legislation, but there's no ban on shrinkwrap in the EU as yet (a law to make all packaging recyclable by 2030 has been proposed). The change from shrinkwrap to stickers isn't responsible for any greater-than-usual amount of damage in packed products, since both just do the same job of sealing the box. Shrinkwrap isn't thick enough to prevent against any damage the box wouldn't prevent anyway, so if the Legions Imperialis products do appear to be suffering from more damage than usual, something else in the process (like repacking, as someone has suggested elsewhere, or perhaps even a process or a type of packaging not suited to the many smaller components on the frames) would more likely be responsible.
it could even also be down to how long these things will have sat on pallets in a warehouse (and with a book in they'll be heavier than most GW boxes). More time for the boxes on the bottom of the stacks to be crushed, bending plastic and popping narrow casting gates off the sprues
And that's without considering that they might have also been moved around the warehouse more often as they had to clear space to make room for other things etc...
nah the boxes would show signs of damage, I think its because the box isn't as solidly filled as they often are and stuff has a chance to move about a bit more in the box
RazorEdge wrote: Does someone have issues with the package quality of Orders?
There is a rising number of customers here in the German Community, complaining about issues with LI-Products, from broken and missing parts over damaged Rulebooks and Decals, and that their Boxed sets are only sealed by stickers instead of plastic foil.
There is a topic on Legions Imperialis on Reddit with a variety of missing issues and mispacks. Personally I’m missing a Contemptor body and waiting to hear from the seller , an online U.K. FLGS , tomorrow what they are going to do. I’m assuming they are going to contact GW Monday.
If they’re a UK retailer it’s their job to make it good, not GW’s - they may have an upstream relationship with GW who will make them good in return but as far as you the consumer is concerned the buck stops with them and anything they say to the contrary are delaying tactics at best.
I pre-ordered 2 boxes in store. 1 arrived for me to collect and the second didn't. Strange as the order that came was the second I placed as the first had other items.
Mr_Rose wrote: If they’re a UK retailer it’s their job to make it good, not GW’s - they may have an upstream relationship with GW who will make them good in return but as far as you the consumer is concerned the buck stops with them and anything they say to the contrary are delaying tactics at best.
In fairness to them I emailed them Saturday afternoon and they replied within an hour , Sundays aren’t a business day. If it takes a few days to figure out something beyond “return the box for a refund then you’ll have to wait months for another one” then I’m happy to see what they come up with. Gw does actually now specify that if you didn’t buy direct then contact the seller.
Mr_Rose wrote: If they’re a UK retailer it’s their job to make it good, not GW’s - they may have an upstream relationship with GW who will make them good in return but as far as you the consumer is concerned the buck stops with them and anything they say to the contrary are delaying tactics at best.
In fairness to them I emailed them Saturday afternoon and they replied within an hour , Sundays aren’t a business day. If it takes a few days to figure out something beyond “return the box for a refund then you’ll have to wait months for another one” then I’m happy to see what they come up with. Gw does actually now specify that if you didn’t buy direct then contact the seller.
Oh sure, reasonable delay because of working hours and whatnot is fine but there’s a difference between that and pretending it’s not their problem/responsibility.
Mr_Rose wrote: If they’re a UK retailer it’s their job to make it good, not GW’s - they may have an upstream relationship with GW who will make them good in return but as far as you the consumer is concerned the buck stops with them and anything they say to the contrary are delaying tactics at best.
In fairness to them I emailed them Saturday afternoon and they replied within an hour , Sundays aren’t a business day. If it takes a few days to figure out something beyond “return the box for a refund then you’ll have to wait months for another one” then I’m happy to see what they come up with. Gw does actually now specify that if you didn’t buy direct then contact the seller.
GW in the past used to replace stuff regardless of where I bought it from, now they ask you to go through the seller. It's within their right to do that, but it was nice when they just dealt with it themselves. The plastic all comes from the same place and goes through GW's office (in or near Sydney from memory).
I haven't received my box (in Australia and still waiting for release day) but given the box has a lot of space, the nature of the small delicate models, and that they've probably been repacked at some point, hardly a surprise it has a lot of damage. Some of the earlier AI boxes also weren't completely full so they used those packing air bag thingos to fill the space and stop things rattling around, but from the unboxings I've seen, they didn't include anything similar in the LI box.
I seem to have had more damage and missing parts in recent years than I used to have, perhaps because the models in general are more complex than they used to be.
Mr_Rose wrote: If they’re a UK retailer it’s their job to make it good, not GW’s - they may have an upstream relationship with GW who will make them good in return but as far as you the consumer is concerned the buck stops with them and anything they say to the contrary are delaying tactics at best.
In fairness to them I emailed them Saturday afternoon and they replied within an hour , Sundays aren’t a business day. If it takes a few days to figure out something beyond “return the box for a refund then you’ll have to wait months for another one” then I’m happy to see what they come up with. Gw does actually now specify that if you didn’t buy direct then contact the seller.
GW in the past used to replace stuff regardless of where I bought it from, now they ask you to go through the seller. It's within their right to do that, but it was nice when they just dealt with it themselves. The plastic all comes from the same place and goes through GW's office (in or near Sydney from memory).
I haven't received my box (in Australia and still waiting for release day) but given the box has a lot of space, the nature of the small delicate models, and that they've probably been repacked at some point, hardly a surprise it has a lot of damage. Some of the earlier AI boxes also weren't completely full so they used those packing air bag thingos to fill the space and stop things rattling around, but from the unboxings I've seen, they didn't include anything similar in the LI box.
I seem to have had more damage and missing parts in recent years than I used to have, perhaps because the models in general are more complex than they used to be.
GW are also doing a lot more thin casting then they used too. Old models were pretty robust and simple in pose, whilst today you've a lot of much finer detailing going on which can increase the risk factor to damage
And I think they've also suffered a lot from ebay stores and the like selling damaged stock to customers who then have problem models that they request replacement parts from GW from; which means GW might be replacing the same kit several times to different customers and such. I think its enough of an issue that they now want you to go through the original store you buy from, which likely helps GW track since only their official traders could go through that avenue.
Flinty wrote: Are there any hints yet on the separate release for the Sicarans?
Nothing on when they will be out yet, but the next release slot would be January 13th which will likely be taken by Kill Team. We might get the rest of the LI stuff together with that. For the contents its likely it will be two boxes of 4x Sicarans and 6x Predators instead of one box with 2x Sicarans and 3x Predators as the instructions in the starter box talk about 4x and 6x respectively
RazorEdge wrote: It's also "easier" for GW to tell you to talk with your Local Store and wait another months for replacement than just send you replacement parts...
I don't think it's much easier, they still have to package the thing and send it off, the only thing it saves them is maybe they throw it in with an existing order rather than having to send it separately.
That said, when I was missing a Gaunt arm from my Leviathan set, it took maybe a week for it to arrive from the online store I bought it from.
Kretualdo wrote: There already seems to be an inconsistency between rulebook, cards, and digital rulebook (photo from one of the facebook groups):
Legion aerial assault in physical rulebook has mandatory slots: HQ, support, 2x core, whereas in cards and digital it is: HQ, support, core, vanguard.
Since the book also has that Heavy Bolter mistype on the Night Lord legion rules page that should be on the previous page under Imperial Fists which is fixed on the digital version I would trust whatever is the digital version more. And if that is the same as the cards even more likely to be the true version.
But that also means you can't actually field the Aerial Assault for now as marines don't have any vanguard slots in the book so maybe the physical version is correct after all?
Could also be that the formation will be changed in an expansion book when marines get their vanguard models and that got mixed up?
tauist wrote: Classic GW, they postpone the launch to redo the rulebook and even then it ships already outdated
They fixed the issue that caused the delay.
But if they had wanted to spend further work that would delay it further.
It's not like GW can send order for reprint, continue work on proof reading and then have those insterted to already ordered and in print process books...
schoon wrote: Concerning damage to minis in the box - could it be that this game packs a full-sized rulebook in the box?
It wouldn't be just because there is a full size book in there as other boxes like Leviathan or Dominion also had books in there. But its certainly possible they shouldn't have just copied how they packaged those for LI minis as these need more care to not break.
But still doesn't explain the missing bases
schoon wrote: Concerning damage to minis in the box - could it be that this game packs a full-sized rulebook in the box?
Yes? Just like 40k, AOS etc boxes did.
Inaccurate sizing or maybe the whole process of unpacking boxes, taking books out, putting new books in caused damage. Usually box is packed once and not touched after that. Now they had to redo it manually.
This has never come up for me with Epic Scale, as we always played at my home. But now of course I’ll need something.
Given how inherently fragile the models are, does anyone have a suggested solution? I’m thinking magnetic trays are the best way forward, but not sure which case or bag would allow me to take full advantage of the lack of height to the models.
This has never come up for me with Epic Scale, as we always played at my home. But now of course I’ll need something.
Given how inherently fragile the models are, does anyone have a suggested solution? I’m thinking magnetic trays are the best way forward, but not sure which case or bag would allow me to take full advantage of the lack of height to the models.
Plastic tackle boxes or those stackable tool organisers are pretty commonly used for Epic scale stuff. Somewhere like B&Q or Homebase will have several options.
I was pleased to see the new bases have just enough room to fit a 1mm disc magnet too.
lord_blackfang wrote: If it's any consolation, all swords on 8mm scale 3d prints will break too.
One thing the plastics have vs 3D prints, I'd never try to print swords that thin.
The "ABS like" resin works nicely here, have some swords on Terminator Sergeants, printed fine, very thin, also flexible, they have so far managed to survive the perilous trip from the cellar to the painting desk, survived painting and have survived a cat deciding "play toy!" and batting the lot to the floor
they will of course break the first game they have
This has never come up for me with Epic Scale, as we always played at my home. But now of course I’ll need something.
Given how inherently fragile the models are, does anyone have a suggested solution? I’m thinking magnetic trays are the best way forward, but not sure which case or bag would allow me to take full advantage of the lack of height to the models.
think with magnetic trays there is a not inconsiderable risk of pulling models off at the ankles
plan here, so far anyway, is a Really Useful Box, 4l size, lined with bubble wrap, vehicles go in first, bubble wrap over, then infantry, then more bubble wrap.
its not idea but since the rulebook is considerably heavier and the whole army will fit in one box, plus another for titans & some terrain, and all the counters will be lobbed in a baggie in that second box think it will work
other option is one of the boxes from the likes of hobby craft with compartments, figure a few infantry bases together won't rattle too much, main risk of damage is infantry and larger tanks in the same bit rattling about
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also for me, if the book and the cards differ I'd say the rulebook, and any associated errata for it, are "the rules" and cards are secondary as "optional"
nice to see the usual standards of proof reading and quality are maintained, and glad I didn't even try to get the cards now
lord_blackfang wrote: If it's any consolation, all swords on 8mm scale 3d prints will break too.
One thing the plastics have vs 3D prints, I'd never try to print swords that thin.
The "ABS like" resin works nicely here, have some swords on Terminator Sergeants, printed fine, very thin, also flexible, they have so far managed to survive the perilous trip from the cellar to the painting desk, survived painting and have survived a cat deciding "play toy!" and batting the lot to the floor
they will of course break the first game they have
I haven't tried any tougher resins. Though Anycubic were claiming their "+" versions of resins were tougher, haven't really tested them for strength though.
think with magnetic trays there is a not inconsiderable risk of pulling models off at the ankles
My plan was to put steel washers under their bases then use discrete magnets in a box (rather than a magnetic sheet) so that the models stand slightly above the surface and they can be pried up by the bases rather than pulling from an individual model.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I haven't tried any tougher resins. Though Anycubic were claiming their "+" versions of resins were tougher, haven't really tested them for strength though.
It's marginally better, like maybe a 20% shift towards ABS-like. Not enough for epic scale. Real ABS-like should work okay most of the time.
thinking about it I do have some magnetic sheets from Amazon that can, just about, hold their own weight to stick themselves to a fridge
sort of magnetic but you need sensitive equipment to tell strength, they could be good for this
the ABS-like resin is nice as there is some flex to it, I do have other "normal" resins, far to brittle, so far with the ABS-like I've only had one breakage, a single T'au fire warrior snapped at the ankle
RazorEdge wrote: It's also "easier" for GW to tell you to talk with your Local Store and wait another months for replacement than just send you replacement parts...
Let's see what I get as answer to my request...
.
I think the easier part is that because its a store with a trade account, GW staff don't have to spend time researching if the store that sold a product to a customer is a legitimate trader or if its reselling kits. Or if the store even exists as a store itself and isn't just a random secondhand sale. There's a few ebay "stores" that appear like a store but are just secondhand garage traders (ergo its not got a trade account with GW).
Sadly its likely a result of years of growing abuse of GW's very generous and effective customer service.
It could also be that Gw has cut down on the number of customer service staff relative to their market growth; so its easier to handle replacements coming through a trading account than individual coming through Gw's customer service system.
Heck it could also be linked to GW's warehousing problems. Perhaps those random replacements are becoming a problem for the system to cope with along with its other issues; so again going through trade accounts might make it easier
In terms of transport, any standard infantry size (anything that a 25mm base has to squeeze into) foam slot case should be fine. You can put two infantry bases side by side in each slot and friction with the sides should keep them from falling out or sliding around. I’ve done this with the classic GW red foam cases for 25mm bases with other small things like critters or the genecult demo girl’s bomb token.
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Kretualdo wrote: There already seems to be an inconsistency between rulebook, cards, and digital rulebook (photo from one of the facebook groups):
Legion aerial assault in physical rulebook has mandatory slots: HQ, support, 2x core, whereas in cards and digital it is: HQ, support, core, vanguard.
Engine Killer also works against vehicles now, not just super heavy vehicles so no baneblade dies but malcador lives.
The warp trait only gives you one dice against Knights and Titans now instead of as many as they have wounds left, very nice they responded this fast on that.
Storm Eagles no longer have the Tempest rockets they stole from the Fire raptors
The correct Aerial Force compulsory slots are from the physical book so two core slots in compulsory, the digital and cards had one core and one vanguard instead which is wrong according to the card errate. But it doesn't specify about the optional detachments which are one core and one vanguard in the physical book and two core in the digital. No idea how its on the cards but since the physical was correct for the compulsory ones its likely to be one core and one vanguard for the optional ones too.
Page 85 – Warp
Change the second sentence of the first paragraph to
the following:
‘If targeting a Knight or Titan, then the Dice value of the
weapon is 1.
Mr_Rose wrote: Clearly I missed something; what was wrong with the warp missile?
Before this it would roll dice equal to the remaining wounds of a knight or titan. Typically that's 3-7 shots, hitting on 2+ and ignoring all possible shields or saves.
Each of those hits would then trigger Engine Killer for +3 wounds, meaning it was virtually guaranteed to one-shot any large target including Warmasters.
I think the thing is yes its fun to think of it hitting the reactor and taking out the whole titan, but when it becomes a super reliable auto-kill it means everyone would be taking them and suddenly titans become un-fun to play with because of how easily they are taken off the field.
Oh no, I get it. I mean the thing about hitting a reactor with a warp missile was that it used to be quite hard; you had to select the right part of the silhouette, hope you didn’t scatter too much, and so on. Automatically wiping out whatever it’s pointed at is way off the mark.
tauist wrote: Classic GW, they postpone the launch to redo the rulebook and even then it ships already outdated
They fixed the issue that caused the delay.
But if they had wanted to spend further work that would delay it further.
It's not like GW can send order for reprint, continue work on proof reading and then have those insterted to already ordered and in print process books...
Maybe GW should just proof read it properly the first time?
tauist wrote: Classic GW, they postpone the launch to redo the rulebook and even then it ships already outdated
They fixed the issue that caused the delay.
But if they had wanted to spend further work that would delay it further.
It's not like GW can send order for reprint, continue work on proof reading and then have those insterted to already ordered and in print process books...
Maybe GW should just proof read it properly the first time?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: So long as you slide them off by the base, and don’t use a high…strength(?) magnet should be OK? Like, fridge magnet strength.
With the infantry bases only being 2mm thick, you're limited in how much of a magnet you can use anyway - like maybe 1mm x 4 mm - which shouldn't be too grippy.
It's pretty obvious why they're different, at the time of the rulebook's release there are no Vanguard options for Astartes so the formation would be unusable. The formations on the cards presumably match the first expansion.
Manchu wrote: Did anyone’s who pre-order included cards get their orders yet?
I've got a pre-order for the cards and tiles still sat "processing" at GW (UK). Which is a little worrying. Ordered pretty soon after they went live, once I'd made it through the queue.
My order for the main set and other kits arrived from Element Games on Sunday (which was suprise as don't normally get Sunday deliveries, maybe it's a Christmas thing).
Billicus wrote: It's pretty obvious why they're different, at the time of the rulebook's release there are no Vanguard options for Astartes so the formation would be unusable. The formations on the cards presumably match the first expansion.
Except that in recent errata for LI they stated that there is an error in cards, and it should in fact be the same as physical rulebook, so it is not obvious as you suggest.
Billicus wrote: It's pretty obvious why they're different, at the time of the rulebook's release there are no Vanguard options for Astartes so the formation would be unusable. The formations on the cards presumably match the first expansion.
Except that in recent errata for LI they stated that there is an error in cards, and it should in fact be the same as physical rulebook, so it is not obvious as you suggest.
If the formatin gets Erratad again when we get Vanguard detachments, we will know
think personally it would have been better to take the lists out of the hard backed book, except for some as "examples", and had a booklet like the assembly guide of lists in the box and shrink wrapped with the book as simple getting started lists
then actually publish proper books when probably the second wave comes out
There are a few independent vendors that still have the starter set for sale if anyone is still after one. Enjoyment have them for just over £100 I think.
Trying to get a box of the Astartes infantry and they are sold out almost everywhere. But, most of those vendors seem to have loads of the Solar infantry left, which will tell you something of what the match-ups are likely to be going forward!
actually think SA could have an advantage once they start getting their artillery stuff. experimenting with colours on a few printed tanks (they are the right length, too narrow though, good for painting tests)
do think locally there will be a lot of hot marine on marine action, a few offering to trade their SA plastic for more marines
Pacific wrote: There are a few independent vendors that still have the starter set for sale if anyone is still after one. Enjoyment have them for just over £100 I think.
Trying to get a box of the Astartes infantry and they are sold out almost everywhere. But, most of those vendors seem to have loads of the Solar infantry left, which will tell you something of what the match-ups are likely to be going forward!
I suspect that this is a combination of Solar players being more drawn towards armoured company formations (with those mostly not being available separately) plus the fact that Solar are waiting on the Dracosan for a decent transport option.
Meanwhile it's much easier to build a balanced marine force with rhinos, storm eagles, and thunderhawks alongside various tanks.
Something I've spotted while reading the rulebook is the repeated use of product box art. These images have a very specific style; landscape pictures in a similar colour palette showing two or more of a specific unit, with any other unit types obscured or otherwise out of focus. Several already available or confirmed box images are used, including Titans, Kratos, Rhinos, etc.
In addition to these there are several images in this style for units that have not been announced as plastic kits. One shows two warhounds armed only with the new weapon options. Presumbly this means they're getting their own box using this art, and the old warhound kit & weapons will be separate (and probably direct-only). Another shows Arvus lighters.
xttz wrote: Something I've spotted while reading the rulebook is the repeated use of product box art. These images have a very specific style; landscape pictures in a similar colour palette showing two or more of a specific unit, with any other unit types obscured or otherwise out of focus. Several already available or confirmed box images are used, including Titans, Kratos, Rhinos, etc.
In addition to these there are several images in this style for units that have not been announced as plastic kits. One shows two warhounds armed only with the new weapon options. Presumbly this means they're getting their own box using this art, and the old warhound kit & weapons will be separate (and probably direct-only). Another shows Arvus lighters.
I feel like they could do well by “pairing up” similar detachment types from the Astartes and Auxilia in the release schedule. So put out Drop Pods and Termites on the same week. Or Spartans and Dracosans etc. that way neither side has to feel neglected but also they players doing allied armies get something too.
Guard armies have (traditionally) gone along the route of needing the 'big guns' (either artillery or tank companies) - when you couldn't do that in old Epic, you packed in as many heavy weapon infantrycompanies as you could.
So I think as xttz says it feels much more incomplete now - it needs bulking out with more or more of those things, and you would be a lunatic to try and fill out the army to 3k points right now with the stuff that is available - in about 6 months time half of that stuff is going to be sitting on a shelf, I think, as those artillery and more tank options come along.
we have half a game, if that, currently, its a good framework
pity they have gone the "no models = no rules" route unlike HH where we have the full books though
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Mr_Rose wrote: I feel like they could do well by “pairing up” similar detachment types from the Astartes and Auxilia in the release schedule. So put out Drop Pods and Termites on the same week. Or Spartans and Dracosans etc. that way neither side has to feel neglected but also they players doing allied armies get something too.
note sure it well be that much thought, do expect the releases to be "something for everyone!" though, even if its a bit WTF? when you look at the mix
we know bikes, speeders, tarantula, drop pods etc are coming, individual tank boxes too
xttz wrote: Something I've spotted while reading the rulebook is the repeated use of product box art. These images have a very specific style; landscape pictures in a similar colour palette showing two or more of a specific unit, with any other unit types obscured or otherwise out of focus. Several already available or confirmed box images are used, including Titans, Kratos, Rhinos, etc.
In addition to these there are several images in this style for units that have not been announced as plastic kits. One shows two warhounds armed only with the new weapon options. Presumbly this means they're getting their own box using this art, and the old warhound kit & weapons will be separate (and probably direct-only). Another shows Arvus lighters.
More interestingly we also have these guys:
Spoiler:
I have a hunch that at some point down the road they will release another box of predators and leman russes with more weapon options - so for nearest future it will be the boxes with current options from starter set (pred with lascannons or autocannons, russ with battle cannon or vanquisher), and then later another box with predator executioneer or maybe conversion cannon, and russ with demolisher and some other variant.
Agreed with that. All the tanks currently released or announced for the game are short variants/weapon options. We will almost certainly be seeing variant kits for them in the future. Likewise the contemptors, and even the infantry (only missile launchers or plasma guns, no heavy bolters, lascannons, autocannons, flamers, etc.). We're almost certainly going to see dupicate/variant kits to cover all of the above.
leopard wrote: actually think SA could have an advantage once they start getting their artillery stuff. experimenting with colours on a few printed tanks (they are the right length, too narrow though, good for painting tests)
do think locally there will be a lot of hot marine on marine action, a few offering to trade their SA plastic for more marines
Also the melee will be good for SA generally. Those power axes are better than terminators and ogryns are just brutal and both can be added to detachments cheaply.
Funnily enough I expect marines to be the shootier army.
I suspect they'll release a vehicle upgrade kit - multiple weapon options for existing vehicles (Kratos Volkite, various Predator weapons and sicaran turrets)
leopard wrote: heres hoping the Mole & Hellbore come back
Mole is now the Ordinatus Aktaeus:
I'd be surprised if the Ordinatus don't appear. Also, with you on the Hellbore!
This has never come up for me with Epic Scale, as we always played at my home. But now of course I’ll need something.
Given how inherently fragile the models are, does anyone have a suggested solution? I’m thinking magnetic trays are the best way forward, but not sure which case or bag would allow me to take full advantage of the lack of height to the models.
Sorry to resurrect this (but it's only 4 days).
Ikea has the Kvissle letter tray, which has four ferrous metal trays that slide out of the box itself. It works for minis with base magnets, and it would probably be MORE useful for LI than 40K (less models that are too tall for the trays). It also fits into one of the standard nylon army bags, though I do not remember which manufacturer.
Ikea has the Kvissle letter tray, which has four ferrous metal trays that slide out of the box itself. It works for minis with base magnets, and it would probably be MORE useful for LI than 40K (less models that are too tall for the trays). It also fits into one of the standard nylon army bags, though I do not remember which manufacturer.
That looks like a great suggestion, thanks! It will fit almost perfectly in my existing KR bag, and is a bit more reasonably priced than the £100+ magnetic carry case I keep seeing recommended.
I just picked up some trays of 1” thick pluck foam. I pluck out two rows then leave one (repeat), it works great for the infantry and rhinos. I’ve also got some 1.5” trays for the tanks. Picked them up from Miniature Market during their Black Friday sale for $5 per tray.
I know there’s been heaps of Spehss Mahreenz scale discussions, but has anyone looked at how the Solar Auxilia compare to Vanguard’s models?
I have a bunch of Vanguard siege infantry that I’m thinking of proxying as Solar Auxilia, I figured they’d be way too small but then I noticed in my Baneblade set, the tank commander torsos look remarkably similar in scale to the siege infantry… but maybe it’s only the tank commanders?
Unfortunately they look like midgets, haha. The tank commanders must be a bit smaller, because they look a lot closer to the siege infantry than what appears to be the case on chaosbunker.
I will tell you now, you will *not* be able to tell the difference between the middle and right-hand miniatures on the tabletop. If you don't mount them on the same base, it's basically the ability of your eyes to discern a 1mm - 1.5mm or so difference in height, from several feet away, when looking down at an angle (if that is the thing is concerning you!)
use a slightly thicker base, with circular cut outs, and as noted, once painted & based they will work perfectly, if its even a slight worry have whole units of the same type and then they are not close enough together to worry about
Ikea has the Kvissle letter tray, which has four ferrous metal trays that slide out of the box itself. It works for minis with base magnets, and it would probably be MORE useful for LI than 40K (less models that are too tall for the trays). It also fits into one of the standard nylon army bags, though I do not remember which manufacturer.
That looks like a great suggestion, thanks! It will fit almost perfectly in my existing KR bag, and is a bit more reasonably priced than the £100+ magnetic carry case I keep seeing recommended.
What KR bag is that, if I may ask? I'm struggling to find what would be a *good* good fit for that particular tray.
What KR bag is that, if I may ask? I'm struggling to find what would be a *good* good fit for that particular tray.
It's a Kaiser K2. The depth & width fit the internal size of the bag pretty closely, and there's a bit of space left over I can either put other stuff in or just pad out with foam.
Pacific wrote: I will tell you now, you will *not* be able to tell the difference between the middle and right-hand miniatures on the tabletop. If you don't mount them on the same base, it's basically the ability of your eyes to discern a 1mm - 1.5mm or so difference in height, from several feet away, when looking down at an angle (if that is the thing is concerning you!)
We'll see, if my SA ever arrive in the mail I'll compare them myself. I'm pretty sure I will be able to tell the difference, given I can tell the difference between my 8mm 3D printed models and the Vanguard models, but maybe I won't be able to. It's less a height thing and more a bulk thing. The reason the tank commanders surprised me is because I think they must have less bulk to fit comfortably in the hatch of the tank.
Maybe I just have an eye for such things, I can also tell the difference between an M5 bolt and an M6 bolt sitting on the other side of workbench
I have a question about order restrictions to broken detachments. Pg. 63 of the rules says that only Advance and Charge orders may be given to these units. The Word Bearers ability (pg. 168) says that only Advance and March orders may be given.
I suspect the Word Bearers' ability is a mistake, but honestly, it could be the other way around. Any word from GW on which of these is correct?
Rec’d Starter Box and both Card Packs. Have seen a number of folks have GW cancel/refund the cards. Checked through the Starter Box and found no damaged or missing components. Have another Starter to look through yet.
It's not so much discerning the difference between 1mm and 1.5mm as it is having two things in front of you and seeing that one is smaller than the other, which a toddler can do. It's alright if you don't mix them up but I've got LI and Vanguard miniatures in my collection and if you intermix them it is noticeable. I think it's really personal preference whether you care or not, a bit like whether you care about the undercuts
lord_blackfang wrote: Yea if I can see the 5% difference between old and new HH marines I will see the 15% difference between old and new Epic.
The Vanguard models are a touch bigger than old Epic, maybe half a millimetre bigger.
I haven't received any of the infantry yet, but I got some Baneblades and Kratos that arrived before the rest of the stuff I ordered and even on the sprue the tank commanders struck me as being very similar in scale to Vanguard models, and side by side they are quite close in head/arm/torso size, but I think the tank commanders are slightly reduced scale. I'll have to compare when the actual infantry arrives.
So is the only stuff left that has rules in the book but not models out the rapiers/aa/other dreadnoughts? Was the cyclops not also part of the solar aux side of that in the warcom preview? Will be weird to have models for them but not rules if they're in first expansion.
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callidusx3 wrote: I have a question about order restrictions to broken detachments. Pg. 63 of the rules says that only Advance and Charge orders may be given to these units. The Word Bearers ability (pg. 168) says that only Advance and March orders may be given.
I suspect the Word Bearers' ability is a mistake, but honestly, it could be the other way around. Any word from GW on which of these is correct?
Hard to say, could be intentional or a mistake. I'm sure it will get answered either way given it's related to a specific legions rules. We already got the quick faq/errata of the warp missile so could see another faq/errata drop out of nowhere, maybe before the next book.
Keeping track of the break point of formations is going to be increasingly more challenging as points level of games go up. Even with the list builder app now listing the total models/breaking points for each formation, it still means having like sperate dead pools for each formation and checking like every time you scoop a model/models. It was the only sorta downer of the first game I've had. We didn't print any lists out so we didn't have the numbers read/dead piles ready, had to sorta improvise but between more sideboard for that and sideboard for all the units in structures like it was a bit annoying.
Did note that how the morale rules work is moderately interesting.
for a formation its all relative to the formation starting strength, this is fine, though as noted it does mean making a note of it somewhere.
for a detachment its reasonably simple, but you need to get your head around it, with it being all done activation by activation
e.g. unit of eight "things" is fired at by two enemy, the first one does three casualties, this is not half of the strength when targeted, so no morale check is required, leaving five models. the second then fires killing two more. thats not half the strength when the second unit targeted them, so again no morale check - even though the unit has taken more than half its initial strength in a turn
in effect units can take gradual casualties without caring, but will fall back from a single, heavier volley. e.g. here if the first enemy did four and the second none a morale check would be required, even though casualties are actually less.
though obviously doing half or more gradually gets easier.
its quite nice, and the only record keeping needed is that when you take a test and pass you need to record it as the unit will not have to test again that phase- if it fails its easy, it goes onto fall back orders
so you can force a check in first fire, another in engagement and a final one in advance fire.
this is quite an interesting system providing for a shock effect but the ability to stand a gradual grind
The record keeping for formations breaking is a real pain. It also fights for sideboard with units that aren't dead but just currently occupying buildings. I'm bias as an aux player, because already have to concern myself with leadership bubbles to be able to use all orders and by mid-end game my formations are all over the board.
Basically it means having separate dead pools/piles for each formation and the formations break point (number of dead models) for each formation. listed for each. It might be straight forward at like 1000pts with a couple formations but it will quickly fall apart without massive additional book keeping/markings/distinctions. I really never planned on having to distinguish which base of las rifles are in which formation ect, for me its the first rule i want to modify or axe, right up there with some enforcement on weapons loadouts in detachments. The stuff that will choke the game is like people with special snowflake malcador loadouts where every tank is different. There's such a vast gulf between units with like a nd b option like contemptor dreadnoughts las/kheres and units like malcadors with a bazillion possible loadouts.
Breakpoint bookkeeping will be a chore in larger games no doubt.
As for the weapon loadouts, maybe a houserule stating that beyond a certain points size limit, all models/stands within units must be identically armed, could help matters?
tauist wrote: Breakpoint bookkeeping will be a chore in larger games no doubt.
As for the weapon loadouts, maybe a houserule stating that beyond a certain points size limit, all models/stands within units must be identically armed, could help matters?
The problem with the breaking point is having to distinguish similar or identical models/detachments to be able to tell what formation they're from. This may not be difficult or even require marking of any kind if one builds a list/army very specifically with no unit cross over between formations. Like a sub cohort and armoured company, if the armoured company is just say malcadors and a baneblade, its not like it will be confusing figuring out which detachment a dead leman russ was in. But if I have detachments of solar aux guys with lasguns of various sizes in 3 different formations, i only have so much sideboard to separate out the dead piles by formation, have the break point for each separate formation listed and make zero mistakes. Oh and I'm checking these separate break points every time a detachment takes fires basically. In a game where people are trying to have a relaxed view of wysiwyg where being anal about loadouts may prove to be the only way to build enough mnemonic devices to even try and account for which identical unit belong to which formation. It's a doozy.
Yeah, that is my most recent issue; figuring out whether I need to have some way to tell infantry detachments/formations apart or if it doesn't matter because stuff doesn't intermix or it just dies too fast.
Eventually I'll be doing what I do in Flames of War, sticking coloured markings on the base to identify detachments, and a second one here for the formation
i.e. say two coloured squares, the first is the formation, say "red", the second is a detachment within that formation, say again "red", or maybe "blue"
the issue initially is I have not decided on the configurations
Robert Facepalmer wrote: Yeah, that is my most recent issue; figuring out whether I need to have some way to tell infantry detachments/formations apart or if it doesn't matter because stuff doesn't intermix or it just dies too fast.
leopard wrote: Eventually I'll be doing what I do in Flames of War, sticking coloured markings on the base to identify detachments, and a second one here for the formation
i.e. say two coloured squares, the first is the formation, say "red", the second is a detachment within that formation, say again "red", or maybe "blue"
the issue initially is I have not decided on the configurations
I've made a thread to discuss breaking points, I may have a simple solution.
Flinty wrote: Seems like a market emerging for little 3D printed base underlays that can be magnetised snap on a different pair for each game.
I'd like to see plinthes/thin bases that are sized well for civitas structures to swap out when they get wrecked. I saw troublemaker games preview some plastic ones hat might work. I think it was a missied opportunity with gw civitas ruins boxes not to have some little base plinthes, especailly if they intend from the ruins to like mark the edges of obstructing terrain areas. I made some little plinths by cutting out section of cardboard from the thunderawk box but plastic would have been a more durable solution.
There are plenty of ruined building STLs out there that I’m sure could be recut to fit some simple rectangular bases for this purpose. I can recommend surfing Thingiverse for a short while and getting familiar with 3D Builder that is basically free with Windows.
It should be bodgeable in about an hour or so I would have thought. Especially if you don’t mind a bunch of similar looking ruins
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here is a great looking free plinth for example.
Flinty wrote: There are plenty of ruined building STLs out there that I’m sure could be recut to fit some simple rectangular bases for this purpose. I can recommend surfing Thingiverse for a short while and getting familiar with 3D Builder that is basically free with Windows.
It should be bodgeable in about an hour or so I would have thought. Especially if you don’t mind a bunch of similar looking ruins
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here is a great looking free plinth for example.
That one is quite nice, the problem is rulebook says to replace destroyed structures with area of difficult terrain, which doesn't/shouldn't block los/obscure models. So the more 2D the better, I like the look of that plinth but feel like it's too 3d to fit with the rules. The book does say they might add more terrain rules in future expansions so maybe the great slaughter will have expanded rules for terrain.
This has been the current solution, bits from the new civitas ruins glued to cardboard cut from the thunderhawk box. It's since been painted but you get the idea.
Spoiler:
The book does say they might add more terrain rules in future expansions so maybe the great slaughter will have expanded rules for terrain. I guess it will be January at the earliest before the spires and manufactorum boxes get re-released.
Daft question: Is the only way to buy terrain for Legions Imperialis / Titanicus to get the Civitas Imperialis set, Ruins or floor tiles? You can't get the smaller sets or the mechanicus terrain (cranes, cargo containers, silos etc) anymore?
StraightSilver wrote: Daft question: Is the only way to buy terrain for Legions Imperialis / Titanicus to get the Civitas Imperialis set, Ruins or floor tiles? You can't get the smaller sets or the mechanicus terrain (cranes, cargo containers, silos etc) anymore?
Those will be coming in the future and since the administratum sector now switched from "temporarily out of stock" to "no longer available" that might now take much longer
StraightSilver wrote: Daft question: Is the only way to buy terrain for Legions Imperialis / Titanicus to get the Civitas Imperialis set, Ruins or floor tiles? You can't get the smaller sets or the mechanicus terrain (cranes, cargo containers, silos etc) anymore?
They're not available now but GW confirmed that the other terrain sets will be re-released and showed LI-branded boxes for them. We're still waiting on several other repackaged AT / AI kits, so presumably the other terrain will be out at the same time as those in Jan/Feb.
Cool, thanks everyone, I was just wondering if I couldn't find them due to the "wonderful" new website which makes everything so easy to navigate...... ha ha.
StraightSilver wrote: Cool, thanks everyone, I was just wondering if I couldn't find them due to the "wonderful" new website which makes everything so easy to navigate...... ha ha.
Ya it's a bit of a nightmare to navigate. Hopefully the smaller terrain boxes will come out early next year.
Would it not be the same terminal it came with before from forge world?
They're repackaging all the AT model kits for Legions Imperialis, and now would be the perfect time to update their terminals. I'm hoping that if the Asterius is updated then the same would be true for the Porphyrion as well, which has yet to be re-released.
Interestingly at the end of this video he mentions painting a Dire Wolf soon. The FW version has been unavailable since summer. Wonder if that means influencers have the next batch of LI kits for review...
Interestingly at the end of this video he mentions painting a Dire Wolf soon. The FW version has been unavailable since summer. Wonder if that means influencers have the next batch of LI kits for review...
Hope so. Just looked at when the Dire Wolf plastic kit was revealed...it was July 6th.
Interestingly at the end of this video he mentions painting a Dire Wolf soon. The FW version has been unavailable since summer. Wonder if that means influencers have the next batch of LI kits for review...
Hope so. Just looked at when the Dire Wolf plastic kit was revealed...it was July 6th.
Not really surprising since we are still missing original AT kits like the warhounds, warbringer and warmaster.
Should probably come together with those, the rest of the AI range (Thunderbolts and the SM flyers) and the two support boxes that already have rules in the book.
I hope it won't be too long until this release but influencers painting up the models isn't really a sign due to the delays. Some had the painted core set sitting around since the originally planned release and if the original wave 1 was supposed to be closer to the launch it wouldn't surprise me if they also had stuff like the direwolves for a while now
Interestingly at the end of this video he mentions painting a Dire Wolf soon. The FW version has been unavailable since summer. Wonder if that means influencers have the next batch of LI kits for review...
Hope so. Just looked at when the Dire Wolf plastic kit was revealed...it was July 6th.
Not really surprising since we are still missing original AT kits like the warhounds, warbringer and warmaster.
Should probably come together with those, the rest of the AI range (Thunderbolts and the SM flyers) and the two support boxes that already have rules in the book.
I hope it won't be too long until this release but influencers painting up the models isn't really a sign due to the delays. Some had the painted core set sitting around since the originally planned release and if the original wave 1 was supposed to be closer to the launch it wouldn't surprise me if they also had stuff like the direwolves for a while now
OTOH they would likely have painted it by now if they had had long time ago.
If they now recently got it would fit. Announcement now, preorder in 2 weeks for 20.1 store date. Would give them 2 week + how long time ago they got + how long time ago video was filmed to paint. Plenty time.
And it's not like they would wait forever. GW doesn't like to show past 3 months so it would be under 3 month from starter launch rest are coming. This would mean bit short of 2 months so if they just shifted same amount as it would be it would likely start to fit quite well.
And that ignores possibility they tighten gap a bit to catch up.
Reading too much into it. Ash said the Dire Wolf is something he wants to paint up, as an example of adding an oddball unit to his LI force, not as in "I have one waiting on my desk".
I wonder if the re-stock is a GW-store only thing? I have a few alerts on some bits, unless you are after Solar infantry at the moment almost everything else seems to be sold out.
Pacific wrote: Really like the fixed gun/tank destroyer.
I wonder if the re-stock is a GW-store only thing? I have a few alerts on some bits, unless you are after Solar infantry at the moment almost everything else seems to be sold out.
Some came back to GW online store but went back to out of stock. Might have been some cancelled orders or just very small print run and boom sold out right away.
Yep, working on a Raven Guard list myself built around a core air assault formation - 3 thunderhawks, 5 storm eagles, 2 fire raptors, 3 xiphons. also have a garrison formation. List is currently sitting around 2300 pts, I'm waiting for the great slaughter book to fill out the remainder and finalize points, as I want drop pods and javelin speeders in there.
Tokens are garbage, ive gotten better tokens included in 90's White Dwarfs. Paper, ONE COLOR! The old epic tokens were much better, I'll just use those or 3d print new ones and paint them. The color or the orders made it so easy to tell from across the board which was which.
I did have some casualties though, one of the assault marines and a malcador were broken. Found lots of bits at the bottom of the box, couple of dread bodies, a few marines, are aux soldiers and some sponson weapons...I wonder if I can get replacements.
Update, spoke with GW, since I bought it on Amazon they won't touch it.....I hate to return the whole thing over a few broken parts that I could 3d print anyway....ill have to think about it. I really only bought it for the rules and to make sure my printer scale was correct for everything else.
But its not my fault GW skimped on the packaging either...You could tell the heavy book smashed the internal packaging pretty badly. Normal size minis probably would have been fine, but some of these epic parts are fragile.
Update, spoke with GW, since I bought it on Amazon they won't touch it.....
Their customer service has become such garbage. They will find literally any reason to not help the customer.
My friend's book is totally messed up, GW customer service blamed the flgs owner... I watched those guys on release day literally take boxes right from the larger one they were shipped in by gw so the idea they like decided to play football with someone's starter box is a bit much. It's even worse blaming the flgs in this case considering we all know the delay was so they could replace the books to begin with, evidenced by the fact the boxes weren't shrink wrapped but had stickers.
Update, spoke with GW, since I bought it on Amazon they won't touch it.....
Their customer service has become such garbage. They will find literally any reason to not help the customer.
Actually I think years of secondhand ebay stores scamming people with "new" product that's actually old returned/damaged product has caused GW to have to adjust their customer support. I know semi-recently they required proof of purchase of new stock (receipt) before they'd send out material. I'm assuming some people got wise to that and started causing issues. So now GW has defaulted to standard consumer practice. You return the product to the original store who traded with you and that store then handles any replacement and issues a request from GW for fresh stock etc...
That way GW only deals with their official stores and partnered 3rd parties. Anyone without a GW contract/agreement can't tap into this and it means GW can also track if certain stores are sending back way too many returns (eg the stores own packaging is causing issues).
It's a huge shame as GW's customer service has been fantastic over the years - even all through the Kirby era the customer service - at least in the UK - was always top rate. These adjustments feel like a firm that's had their great customer service abused on a large enough scale to cause issues and that means taking tighter measures to protect themselves.
Update, spoke with GW, since I bought it on Amazon they won't touch it.....
Their customer service has become such garbage. They will find literally any reason to not help the customer.
Actually I think years of secondhand ebay stores scamming people with "new" product that's actually old returned/damaged product has caused GW to have to adjust their customer support. I know semi-recently they required proof of purchase of new stock (receipt) before they'd send out material. I'm assuming some people got wise to that and started causing issues. So now GW has defaulted to standard consumer practice. You return the product to the original store who traded with you and that store then handles any replacement and issues a request from GW for fresh stock etc...
That way GW only deals with their official stores and partnered 3rd parties. Anyone without a GW contract/agreement can't tap into this and it means GW can also track if certain stores are sending back way too many returns (eg the stores own packaging is causing issues).
It's a huge shame as GW's customer service has been fantastic over the years - even all through the Kirby era the customer service - at least in the UK - was always top rate. These adjustments feel like a firm that's had their great customer service abused on a large enough scale to cause issues and that means taking tighter measures to protect themselves.
Yeah, Im a bit torn what to do. I could have just bought the book and estimated scale to print everything...but I wanted to support the game so giving them $200 bucks felt fair. This launch was really botched. Id take a softback book, better tokens and the cards (really you want me to pay $34 for a stack of cards). Every time I want to support something GW does...the give me a plethora of reasons not to.
Even though I could just print the broken parts...I feel like I should return it just because they messed this whole thing up so bad and are probably leaving a lot of people hanging out to dry.
Dunno, doesn't seem to me that their bottom line was being hurt very much at all, given their last years' performance.
What I DO know, though, is that knowing they won't make themselves responsible for their own product if it's not been sold at their store makes me WAY more gunshy about buying anything from them.
Update, spoke with GW, since I bought it on Amazon they won't touch it.....
Their customer service has become such garbage. They will find literally any reason to not help the customer.
Actually I think years of secondhand ebay stores scamming people with "new" product that's actually old returned/damaged product has caused GW to have to adjust their customer support. I know semi-recently they required proof of purchase of new stock (receipt) before they'd send out material. I'm assuming some people got wise to that and started causing issues. So now GW has defaulted to standard consumer practice. You return the product to the original store who traded with you and that store then handles any replacement and issues a request from GW for fresh stock etc...
That way GW only deals with their official stores and partnered 3rd parties. Anyone without a GW contract/agreement can't tap into this and it means GW can also track if certain stores are sending back way too many returns (eg the stores own packaging is causing issues).
It's a huge shame as GW's customer service has been fantastic over the years - even all through the Kirby era the customer service - at least in the UK - was always top rate. These adjustments feel like a firm that's had their great customer service abused on a large enough scale to cause issues and that means taking tighter measures to protect themselves.
This is all about profits. They are penny pinching. It would barely impact their bottom line to serve customers like they used to. When I was doing commissions, I would get boxes sent to me from clients and if I had issues, they would fix it because the product is theirs to fix. Amazon isn't causing sprues to go missing/be broken or defects in their injection molding to happen. This is just bad customer service built off greed and I do not expect it to change back ever. Very sad.
Albertorius wrote: Dunno, doesn't seem to me that their bottom line was being hurt very much at all, given their last years' performance.
What I DO know, though, is that knowing they won't make themselves responsible for their own product if it's not been sold at their store makes me WAY more gunshy about buying anything from them.
The worse for me is blaming their resellers for something gw literally took the shrink wrap off every box to replace, as if the resellers are playing football with box sets or something, Makes no sense, incredibly short-sighted on their part.
It's making me gunshy about ordering the great slaughter whenever it comes up for pre-order. If the book is damaged when it get to me the message is I would be sol basically.
tneva82 wrote: No you wouldnt. The store you bought would replace it.
Unless you bought it from non-gw retailer ie cause of change of policy. Buy from retailer. Not non-retailers.
I buy from legit gw retailers who have retail account and hence i get replacements if needed. And doesn't cost seller either
...other than time and hassle, for both you and the retailer, while a quick call to GW usually sorted everything promptly. And GW could ask for the receipt of that retailer, too, if proof of sale is needed at all.
tneva82 wrote: No you wouldnt. The store you bought would replace it.
Unless you bought it from non-gw retailer ie cause of change of policy. Buy from retailer. Not non-retailers.
I buy from legit gw retailers who have retail account and hence i get replacements if needed. And doesn't cost seller either
Ok, look at it this way, if I return this to Amazon, they pick it up at my house and give me a refund. My part is done, just out some time until I can order another one that might be damaged. Amazon sends it back to the FLGS ( I spoke to them also by the way, they said all I could do was send it back if I'm not satisfied) FLGS now has to send it to GW for a refund. GW gets it...maybe they replace the broken parts and sell it again. The reality is that somewhere along the line it just ends up in a wastebin. Is GW really going to go through, check contents and repack? probably not. So this box and others like it would probably just be writeoffs.... OR GW could just send me a Malcadore sprue and a Space Marine sprue......costs them almost nothing.
I'm annoyed may not repurchase, FLGS is annoyed, GW potentially misses out on purchase and creates bad will.
or they send out a sprue or two.....and everyone is happy. It can even be a broken or partial sprue as long as it replaces the parts damaged.
My box came with a few semi-broken parts. Nothing completely snapped off, but several bits hanging by a thread. Most of the assault marines were like that.
Tossing up whether to bother asking for replacements. It's a hassle, and I could just throw some Tamiya extra thin cement over them and hope for the best.
They did a really shabby job of packing it, and lots of bits don't have enough "protector" pieces on the sprue (you know, those protrusions that stop the models banging against each other in the box).
You'd think for a $335 box they could throw in some damned packing material so stuff doesn't move around. Hell, the place I bought it from packed it in a box with some biodegradable paper padding... the problem was the kit itself internally had no protection.
If I needed more convincing that 3D printing the infantry is a better idea, well I guess this adds to that
AllSeeingSkink wrote: My box came with a few semi-broken parts. Nothing completely snapped off, but several bits hanging by a thread. Most of the assault marines were like that.
Tossing up whether to bother asking for replacements. It's a hassle, and I could just throw some Tamiya extra thin cement over them and hope for the best.
They did a really shabby job of packing it, and lots of bits don't have enough "protector" pieces on the sprue (you know, those protrusions that stop the models banging against each other in the box).
You'd think for a $335 box they could throw in some damned packing material so stuff doesn't move around. Hell, the place I bought it from packed it in a box with some biodegradable paper padding... the problem was the kit itself internally had no protection.
If I needed more convincing that 3D printing the infantry is a better idea, well I guess this adds to that
The big problem is the big heavy book acts like a wrecking ball during shipping! Could have just given us smaller softcover books, but big hard cover allows you to charge extra for the premium feel! The book is bad anyway, mostly useless, barely covers any units not included in the box. Seriously Space Marine rule book without Rules for Landraiders????? I'm very disappointed in many ways with this box.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: My box came with a few semi-broken parts. Nothing completely snapped off, but several bits hanging by a thread. Most of the assault marines were like that.
Tossing up whether to bother asking for replacements. It's a hassle, and I could just throw some Tamiya extra thin cement over them and hope for the best.
They did a really shabby job of packing it, and lots of bits don't have enough "protector" pieces on the sprue (you know, those protrusions that stop the models banging against each other in the box).
You'd think for a $335 box they could throw in some damned packing material so stuff doesn't move around. Hell, the place I bought it from packed it in a box with some biodegradable paper padding... the problem was the kit itself internally had no protection.
If I needed more convincing that 3D printing the infantry is a better idea, well I guess this adds to that
The big problem is the big heavy book acts like a wrecking ball during shipping! Could have just given us smaller softcover books, but big hard cover allows you to charge extra for the premium feel! The book is bad anyway, mostly useless, barely covers any units not included in the box. Seriously Space Marine rule book without Rules for Landraiders????? I'm very disappointed in many ways with this box.
I think it's a mixture of the big book and too much free space. My big book was still nestled in the little space for it under the poster thingo, so I assume it didn't come out and damage stuff.
The early Aeronautica Imperialis boxes also had a lot of free space but they put some of those packing balloons in to stop things moving around. The later boxes didn't have those and inevitably stuff was damaged in them.
But yeah, I hate the big book, I know I'm about 20 years late to the party but why the hell is GW so attracted to these giant fecking books that cram pictures and fluff and rules (and incomplete rules...) into one huge hardback. Do people really prefer that to having 2 or 3 smaller books? One for rules and only rules, one for army lists and only army lists, and maybe a fluff book that also has scenarios in it (though personally I'd rather have the fluff book completely separate).
This giant hardbacks are so cumbersome, they don't fit neatly into any transport options, I can't comfortably read them in bed, they just feel so unnecessary.
Hell, my favourite were the A5 sized books that came with Epic40k, so much easier to transport. Or the thin paperbacks that came with the Aeronautica Imperialis starter sets, I can just sandwich one of them between 2 layers in my army transport box.
2 air assault formations dueling. That was fun. I'm planning similar formation as well.
Xiphons keep looking pretty darn good.
And these reports show why good that jinx isn't additional save roll but alternative. Planes good enough as is.
Finding planes quite fragile myself.
Haven't played a game yet, but I had plans to do a Storm Eagle squadron for dropping troops until I saw GMG's battle report where 1 got blown out of the sky turn 1 while loaded with troops, and the 2nd one only survived because of lucky dice. Super easy to lose 200pts worth of flyers +95pts of troops in one go.
Not that easy if you are careful where you land. Hitting on 6'st and good saves means not many detachment can overfire them to death. Enemy planes meanwhile can't hunt before transport has already disgorged troops.
Leviathan, Dominion, Age of Darkness etc... had bigger, heavier books and not much in the way of damage complaints. But they had a cardboard frame to hold the book in place.
Breakages in LI are down to GW's choice to skimp on packaging, not some inherent property of the contents.
tneva82 wrote: Not that easy if you are careful where you land. Hitting on 6'st and good saves means not many detachment can overfire them to death. Enemy planes meanwhile can't hunt before transport has already disgorged troops.
GMG's got killed by enemy interceptors.
But yeah, I haven't read all the rules around transports yet, but I found it odd that T1 GMG flew on but didn't disembark troops, meaning that when one of them went down it took the troops in it with them. I assume that was an operator error rather than a rules based reason for doing it?
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lord_blackfang wrote: Leviathan, Dominion, Age of Darkness etc... had bigger, heavier books and not much in the way of damage complaints. But they had a cardboard frame to hold the book in place.
Breakages in LI are down to GW's choice to skimp on packaging, not some inherent property of the contents.
Not sure the books in those boxes were bigger, they seem about the same size to me.
My LI box had a cardboard frame to hold the book in place, did yours not?
My LI box was laid out basically identical to the Leviathan box. Folded cardboard at the bottom where the rulebook sits in the middle. Bases in the nook to the side of that, then a poster covering the book and cardboard frame to keep it separated from the sprues.
It seems the problem for my box was that the sprues were sliding against each other, because there's too much empty space, whereas the Leviathan box was so heavily packed that nothing could move. I think what they needed was some packing material above the sprues to fill the empty space.
But if yours came without even the cardboard frame to hold the book in place, that would be more catastrophic and maybe came from the repacking stage?
lord_blackfang wrote: Leviathan, Dominion, Age of Darkness etc... had bigger, heavier books and not much in the way of damage complaints. But they had a cardboard frame to hold the book in place.
Breakages in LI are down to GW's choice to skimp on packaging, not some inherent property of the contents.
I haven't received my box (in Australia and still waiting for release day) but given the box has a lot of space, the nature of the small delicate models, and that they've probably been repacked at some point, hardly a surprise it has a lot of damage. Some of the earlier AI boxes also weren't completely full so they used those packing air bag thingos to fill the space and stop things rattling around, but from the unboxings I've seen, they didn't include anything similar in the LI box.
tneva82 wrote: Not that easy if you are careful where you land. Hitting on 6'st and good saves means not many detachment can overfire them to death. Enemy planes meanwhile can't hunt before transport has already disgorged troops.
GMG's got killed by enemy interceptors.
Then either they misplayed or they kept troops inside for some reason. You don't bring own planes to intercept when transport comes to move. Interceptor happens when unit with that rule has moved.
Transport moves, potential overwatch happens, troops hop out. Then you could bring interceptor unit to shoot at the transport but the _troops are already out_. Even if you blow the transport the units they carried were already out.
Only way to destroy plane with troops inside is with overwatch or if plane is used to attack ground targets rather than bring in troops. Which is user error/gamble that didn't pay off. But doesn't mean flying transport is death trap.
If you don't gamble and send plane with troops inside to attack rather than wait then only thing that threatens you is overwatch. And yes 6 sicarans with autocannons can do quite a threat. As can 10 russ with vanquisher and lascannons
10 leman russ with vanquishers. 1.6666 hit. 5+ jink saves(going for 5+ is better than 4+ rerolling success) so 1.111 saves. 10 lascannons for 1.666 hit for 0.555 damage. That's almost enough to drop one so good idea to avoid those right away until you can soften up.
Yes there ARE tools to counter but that's price you pay for having otherwise pretty darn strong trick. If you didn't have risk you could even t1 charge those 10 rush with 4 contemptor/8 assault marines without much of a counter play. That would be too good.
There has to be some risk forcing marine to at least soften up biggest dangers to the transport
White scar is even better. 4+ jink which ignores armour bane makes them REAL tough. Hit on 6's, 2+ save, 4+ jink...
Too bad for white scars their infantry has no benefit whatsoever.
While the box does have a cardboard insert to stop the book from moving around, it doesn't stop the book from being a heavy weight on the sprues if the box is flipped. There is also a thin cardboard so the book doesn't directly touch the sprues but that doesn't really protect the sprues. That one is more so the sprues don't scratch the book.
Granted that was also the case for Leviathan but LI has way smaller/fragile parts on the sprues and since its not packed as tight as Leviathan the sprues can move around and overlap each other which in turn can results in even more punctual pressure from the book.
And its also likely that some damages simply happened due to the repackaging.
Matrindur wrote: While the box does have a cardboard insert to stop the book from moving around, it doesn't stop the book from being a heavy weight on the sprues if the box is flipped. There is a cardboard insert so the book doesn't directly touch the sprues but that doesn't really protect the sprues. That one is more so the sprues don't scratch the book.
Granted that was also the case for Leviathan but LI has way smaller/fragile parts on the sprues and since its not packed as tight as Leviathan the sprues can move around and overlap each other which in turn can results in even more punctual pressure from the book.
And its also likely that some damages simply happened due to the repackaging.
Maybe I need to take a picture, Yes my box had the cardboard in it but the cardboard was pretty smashed One of the warhound bases actually cut through it somehow. Yes Leviathan came with a big heavy book also, but the miniatures are much more substantial and less likely to break. Had they even put the sprue in a large zip lock bag like many other companies do, it probably would have fixed the issue. In my box at at least, there was nothing separating the book from the sprues. I didn't just have parts come off the sprue, one of my Malcador Hull pieces was crushed and snapped in two. Two dreadnaught main bodies were dislodged from the sprue entirely along with many infantry which most came out whole but some did not.
The choices made for this box and release in general confuse me. Big heavy beautiful, but 75% useless book.....but cheap counters that will see lots of use, and no cards. The included choice of units is bizarre to me, along with the choice of units not given data sheets in the book. The models themselves, while the infantry are great, why did they make the vehicles so overly fiddley, surely the hulls could have been one piece? It all feels very poorly thought out on just about every level. I think this game needed to incubate some more. They should have learned more lessons for past epic releases.
I'll fight you on the tanks. The fiddleyness of the kits makes me ecstatic in a world of increasingly less detailed and fun to build models. Check out battletech for more pre-built stuff in similar scale.
didn't find the tanks that hard, though this is speaking as someone who hand solders surface mount components and works on "N" gauge model railways
even though I can print some of these tanks the actual Prediator kit is nicer than the print files so likely grabbing a box at some point, they were really nice to paint.
the Sicaran isn't that bad either and also nice to paint so likewise likely grabbing a box.
I think the starter contents were built around an initial "wave 1" release that was meant to have two factions, and to be a box where you likely don't want too many copies so the "discount" becomes less.
until you split them with someone of course.
whats somewhat frustrating so far is the mix of infantry in a box. for marines getting half a detachment of heavy, support, assault and terminators is a bit rubbish frankly, and will make having effective infantry lists, without going down alternative routes, awkward and expensive.
the basic tactical bods are ok, but they need the backup and with the mix in the boxes its not there.
hopefully at some point there will be a second infantry box with other units in, and more support stuff
lord_blackfang wrote: Leviathan, Dominion, Age of Darkness etc... had bigger, heavier books and not much in the way of damage complaints. But they had a cardboard frame to hold the book in place.
Breakages in LI are down to GW's choice to skimp on packaging, not some inherent property of the contents.
The boxes for all of the above were also *filled*, which makes a big difference. The book not being able to move because its held in place by a full compliment of sprues that limit its range of motion to just a couple millimeters of movement prevents the book from being able to cause meaningful damage. My box of LI has a full ~25mm gap between the height of the sprues and the box lid, which is enough distance for both the sprues and the book to move and pick up enough momentum to break or dislodge parts. I don't even think a set of 4 kratos would have been enough to fix that, I think it needed the kratos AND a couple sets of terrain sprues to fill in the volume.
axotl wrote: I'll fight you on the tanks. The fiddleyness of the kits makes me ecstatic in a world of increasingly less detailed and fun to build models. Check out battletech for more pre-built stuff in similar scale.
But I loved me my tiny airplanes and tanks man.
The tanks are way over engineered, could have been one piece hulls instead of 4 or five, yes I want separate turrets, I don't need 4 separate mufflers and exhaust pipes on each Rhino Chassis, when I have to build 20 or 30 of them. Are there people that would enjoy putting each individual track link on....sure, there are. There is however a level that is good enough for 90% people. I mean really, the Rhinos and Landraiders from almost every Boxed release of epic were detailed enough for most everyone, one piece hull, attach guns and turrets. Id rather have twice as many slightly less detailed tanks, then get half of them that take 5 times the work. But hey, more parts take up more space on a sprue so GW can give us less but charge more for superfluous details. There should not be a part on these sprues smaller than a infantryman, you are just scaring people away, especially with a starter box. Add on boxes could be more complex, but I wouldn't buy this for my kid.....which is pretty much GWs sales target.
There is a point where GW increases complexity just to increase price while actually dragging value down. All over the place I feel GW makes the poor value decisions with the content of this box.
The exhaust do feel overly fiddly. I’m not only left handed, but thanks to injury, I can really feel much in my thumb, index and middle fingers on that hand.
Getting my three (so far!) Predators built was a challenge.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: The exhaust do feel overly fiddly. I’m not only left handed, but thanks to injury, I can really feel much in my thumb, index and middle fingers on that hand.
Getting my three (so far!) Predators built was a challenge.
sorry to hear that, I'm not in the same boat, just clumsy, and liable to flick small parts into the depths of the carpet but only once they have glue on them. I gave up and use tweezers, the sort that you press to open them. blessing for small parts of models. not sure if you have tried them but could be worth a look?
tneva82 wrote: Sure. And then result in less details. See what complain came on infantry arm filled? Same in tanks.
Gw can't break laws of physics.
It's trade between quality and # of pieces. Gw went for max quality.
Even now assembly is fast axd easy enough child can do fast.
Don't like assembly, ask your 8year old relative to assemble for candies
My point exactly. The infantry are one piece plastic, you cant break the laws of casting, NO UNDERCUTS. Once painted and put on bases, you can't even see most of those issues. The people complaining about that have no clue how injection molding works, what a great job they actually accomplished, or how much better they look than old Epic infantry.....I thought making the missile launcher a separate piece was great.
However looking at my old one piece Rhinos, Yeah I'd rather have 50 of these 1 piece Rhinos than 10 of those 10 piece Rhinos. There is such little difference in detail. Still has 4 exhausts, just molded into the body, yeah the exhausts don't protrude over the top of the body, but who is even going to notice that? I bet I could put them on the table and very few people would see the difference if they were in the same scale. These LI tanks are needlessly over detailed and complex for this scale. But, you couldnt charge $5 a Rhino for a one piece model I guess.
Oh, I dont mind the Rhinos, assembling them didnt feel to fiddly. Drilling the exhaust vents on the small pieces is much more challenging tbh
What I'm having difficulty with are the missile launchers on the Marines. I dont know how they are supposed to slot on to the torso, and the contact point seems oddly shaped. Any tips for getting those to sit right would be appreciated!
tauist wrote: Oh, I dont mind the Rhinos, assembling them didnt feel to fiddly. Drilling the exhaust vents on the small pieces is much more challenging tbh
What I'm having difficulty with are the missile launchers on the Marines. I dont know how they are supposed to slot on to the torso, and the contact point seems oddly shaped. Any tips for getting those to sit right would be appreciated!
I actually bought some plastic glue due to this (and similar) tiny components.
The best way I found to do the missile guys is to hold the model so that you're looking at the back, then press the arm in. You should see the shoulder pad go flush into the body/backpack and give a good connection. Then turn it around and tilt the arm up/down slightly if needed to make the opposite arm line up.
Brought a Box with broken and missing Parts at my "not so" local top tier top1 ten GW trader in the Nation FLGS Store - Customer Service says bring it back to them for a replacement Set.
Friend brought a Box with broken and missing Parts at the next local Warhammer/GW Store - Customer Service says bring it back to them for a replacement Set.
For what do they have a customer service?
Many thanks for your email, and I'm sorry to hear the product you purchased from your local supplier wasn't in perfect condition.
If I could please ask that you contact the stockist for a replacement/refund, as they will need to resolve this for you. They have allowances within their trade account with us to replace this for you or refund you.
If you do have any issues when contacting them please get back in touch and we will see if there is any further assistance we can provide.
Sure, I bring the box back by taking the train and wait months because the Set is out of stock aeternum...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: The exhaust do feel overly fiddly. I’m not only left handed, but thanks to injury, I can really feel much in my thumb, index and middle fingers on that hand.
Getting my three (so far!) Predators built was a challenge.
sorry to hear that, I'm not in the same boat, just clumsy, and liable to flick small parts into the depths of the carpet but only once they have glue on them. I gave up and use tweezers, the sort that you press to open them. blessing for small parts of models. not sure if you have tried them but could be worth a look?
It’s something I’ve adapted to over the years, and I do get there in the end!
I might be getting a box of Rhinos next Friday, so it’s not a total dealbreaker for me. And if nothing else, it’s an impressive bit of kit detailing.
chaos0xomega wrote: The boxes for all of the above were also *filled*, which makes a big difference. The book not being able to move because its held in place by a full compliment of sprues that limit its range of motion to just a couple millimeters of movement prevents the book from being able to cause meaningful damage. My box of LI has a full ~25mm gap between the height of the sprues and the box lid, which is enough distance for both the sprues and the book to move and pick up enough momentum to break or dislodge parts. I don't even think a set of 4 kratos would have been enough to fix that, I think it needed the kratos AND a couple sets of terrain sprues to fill in the volume.
A full inch gap is pretty crazy, GW surely has access to a thinner box of the same footprint. It's uncharacteristically wasteful of transport and shelf space too. This release seems to have odd problems in aspects GW normally does well. Do we know if boxes had to just be opened to swap books or were the boxes themselves reprinted too?
wondering if the initial plan was to have more in the box? but would have been something not printed on the box which is weird
that or this is a standard size box their packing stuff works well with so the space is "acceptable", it is very strange though. I mean even a bit of card as a spacer would have worked
Perhaps the old rule book was a slightly different size and was made with a custom card insert into a standard box. Then when the new ones were ordered the books were a slightly different size and GW didn't have a perfect fitting card insert ready to go?
I can't imagine GW wanted to reprint everything and the book size change might even have been one of those things that happened without them quite knowing it was happening; or was a rush job and thus they didn't have a choice etc....
I think they simply took what worked for their other boxes without considering if it would work for the more delicate LI sprues, in the same way they just took the 28mm poses scaled down for the SM instead of designing new poses that would work better as a single piece without those plastic stretch marks
Matrindur wrote: I think they simply took what worked for their other boxes without considering if it would work for the more delicate LI sprues, in the same way they just took the 28mm poses scaled down for the SM instead of designing new poses that would work better as a single piece without those plastic stretch marks
Its very difficult to make 1 piece plastic injected infantry, there are going to be undercuts, and I don't think many people would want every infantry piece to be 3-4 parts at this scale (though the missile launcher is not too bad). Just look at any single piece injection molded infantry at any scale, its a problem inherent in the process.......considering the limitations I think they did an excellent job and an vast improvement over previous releases. You could maybe pose them different to avoid undercuts, but the poses would be noticeably odd. For example you could not do the standard two hands holding bolter across chest as that would cause undercuts. You could do the old, make the hands and bolters a second piece...but considering that some people are having problems with the 2 piece missile launcher, that would just be a needless complication. The gain in frankly unnecessary detail would not be worth the hassle.
This is actually where 3D printed infantry shine.....undercuts are not an issue with 3D printing. There are lots of very cool infantry and character STLS that look great for this game. You can already get just about every infantry option including specialists in STL form.
I applaud them getting more detailed, but its a balancing act, I just feel they went overboard on the vehicles. They easily could have made the Rhino 3 pieces, main hull, 2 sides, that would have been fine......ten pieces is overboard. A complete Predator is a minimum of 18 parts but a total piece count of 25! Its not difficult, but needlessly excessive.
easy to act stupid if you have a monopoly and people buying everything no matter what
most people having damaged frames are not even going to return the boxes or ask for replacement but just post online on how easy that can be fixed or that it does not matter on the gaming table
other companies are asked for a full refund of the whole box if 1 model inside is slightly damaged and the people will post on social media to avoid those because of bad quality
GW can be as stupid and lazy as they want, it won't affect sales at all
Andrew1975 wrote: Its very difficult to make 1 piece plastic injected infantry, there are going to be undercuts, and I don't think many people would want every infantry piece to be 3-4 parts at this scale (though the missile launcher is not too bad). Just look at any single piece injection molded infantry at any scale, its a problem inherent in the process.
yeah, that is why you design the models to fit the technology and don't use the same base model and pose for different scales
GW is not the only making small scale plastic models, but GW is the only one using 28mm multipart models as base and scaled them down
Even the the original Epic models, while looking worse in design, are of better quality simply because they were sculpted to work with those limitations.
Yes the limits the available poses and it will look less dynamic, but you can avoid impossible undercuts that look bad
this is not because of a limitation in technology but simply because GW did not make dedicated sculpts/poses for the smaller scale
Matrindur wrote: I think they simply took what worked for their other boxes without considering if it would work for the more delicate LI sprues, in the same way they just took the 28mm poses scaled down for the SM instead of designing new poses that would work better as a single piece without those plastic stretch marks
Its very difficult to make 1 piece plastic injected infantry, there are going to be undercuts, and I don't think many people would want every infantry piece to be 3-4 parts at this scale (though the missile launcher is not too bad). Just look at any single piece injection molded infantry at any scale, its a problem inherent in the process.......considering the limitations I think they did an excellent job and an vast improvement over previous releases. You could maybe pose them different to avoid undercuts, but the poses would be noticeably odd. For example you could not do the standard two hands holding bolter across chest as that would cause undercuts. You could do the old, make the hands and bolters a second piece...but considering that some people are having problems with the 2 piece missile launcher, that would just be a needless complication. The gain in frankly unnecessary detail would not be worth the hassle.
This is actually where 3D printed infantry shine.....undercuts are not an issue with 3D printing. There are lots of very cool infantry and character STLS that look great for this game. You can already get just about every infantry option including specialists in STL form.
I applaud them getting more detailed, but its a balancing act, I just feel they went overboard on the vehicles. They easily could have made the Rhino 3 pieces, main hull, 2 sides, that would have been fine......ten pieces is overboard. A complete Predator is a minimum of 18 parts but a total piece count of 25! Its not difficult, but needlessly excessive.
You are right that undercuts will happen when the models are 1 piece but they can certainly be minimized if you design a fitting pose. And its also certainly possible to design such poses since not every pose on the current sprue suffers from clearly visible undercuts. And the Solar Auxilia are even better and basically have no problems at all so you can't tell me that wouldn't also be possible for the SM if they actually tried to find usable poses instead of just copying the 28mm poses.
But the discussion about better poses and undercuts has already been talked about enough I just brought it up again as an argument that it wouldn't surprise me if GW didn't put in enough thought into the packaging too.
chaos0xomega wrote: I don't think we really know for sure but there's nothing to indicate the boxes were reprinted atm
My box was definitely repackaged rather than reprinted, because they use those stickers to seal the box instead of shrink wrapping them, I can see where the stickers had previously been before they were repackaged.
My box did arrive in good condition. I have no good standing with GW but the complain on this bord are crazy. In your oppinion GW cant do it right doesnt matter what they do.
oke if your missing parts it sucks, you can switch it for a new on but those are sold out again. For the broken stuff, i would say take a look on how those boxex are treated on the way to your adress. If the box is on a pallet al is good but single boxes have a lot to endure.
and it is on the manufacturer to pack them in a way that they still arrive in good conditions
and if the is a problem, the manufacturer has to sort that with the shipping company and you should not need to do anything but get a replacement
My job would be way easier if complains about damaged goods would be sorted out by "because the shipping company did not handle them with care"
like on industrial scale shipping you have companies that will return good if the colour of the metal drums is scratched without even opening them and asking for refund and replacement
than it is on us to get the money back from the shipping company (and hopefully the guy who packed it took pics from every angle to confirm the scratches were not there when it left)
chaos0xomega wrote: I don't think we really know for sure but there's nothing to indicate the boxes were reprinted atm
My box was definitely repackaged rather than reprinted, because they use those stickers to seal the box instead of shrink wrapping them, I can see where the stickers had previously been before they were repackaged.
GW have been moving away from shrink wrap this year. Certainly I first noticed it on some Horus Heresy plastics I bought.
skeleton wrote: My box did arrive in good condition. I have no good standing with GW but the complain on this bord are crazy. In your oppinion GW cant do it right doesnt matter what they do.
They could have just packaged it properly?
GW doesn't really get a pass on something as simple as this, especially given their years of experience and the premium price.
kodos wrote: and it is on the manufacturer to pack them in a way that they still arrive in good conditions
and if the is a problem, the manufacturer has to sort that with the shipping company and you should not need to do anything but get a replacement
My job would be way easier if complains about damaged goods would be sorted out by "because the shipping company did not handle them with care"
like on industrial scale shipping you have companies that will return good if the colour of the metal drums is scratched without even opening them and asking for refund and replacement
than it is on us to get the money back from the shipping company (and hopefully the guy who packed it took pics from every angle to confirm the scratches were not there when it left)
Ah yes. Everybody but gw is perfect. News of other companies having to provide replacements just lies. Nobody but gw need to replace.
Or not..,
If you have broken piece get replacement. Unless you bought from unofficial "trader" you will get it. Can even end up partial sprue along with your replacement sprue.
chaos0xomega wrote: I don't think we really know for sure but there's nothing to indicate the boxes were reprinted atm
My box was definitely repackaged rather than reprinted, because they use those stickers to seal the box instead of shrink wrapping them, I can see where the stickers had previously been before they were repackaged.
GW have been moving away from shrink wrap this year. Certainly I first noticed it on some Horus Heresy plastics I bought.
I got shrinkwrap on a Legions-branded Thunderhawk box I got about a week ago from my FLGS. Maybe they're not consistently using it but I'm pretty sure they're not completely shrinkwrap-free.
kodos wrote: you still need to work on you reading comprehension
Whv then you are only complaining about gw? Double standard that. You complain about gw expeating them to hold higher standard than others.
Unless you raise same complain level for others it just shows you bias and agenda against gw. You complain about gw for sake of complaining regardless of what they do.
I did not complain about GW needing to be better than others
I complain about people having double standards and searching for excuses to GWs mistakes
if the item was damaged during shipping because the box content was not packed accordingly, this is not the fault of the shipping company or the people who packed to boxes but GW who put the stuff inside the box
they don't need to be better than others, they just need to do what everyone else is doing
and people need to stopp getting them away with being lazy and cheap because it was not poors GW fault that the shipping company shaked the box too much
and if you now say this is double standard because GW can do nothing about it and everyone else also has this problem, than please show me all the damaged models from AoS, 40k, Necromunda or HH boxes.
Like any other game from GW that came with a book did not have that problem, so it cannot be something generic were we are having double standards on GW this is something very specific to what GW has done with LI and if that only happened because GW speed up the process to get the game out before christmas, it is still their fault and not the shipping company stacking the boxes wrong
kodos wrote: easy to act stupid if you have a monopoly and people buying everything no matter what
most people having damaged frames are not even going to return the boxes or ask for replacement but just post online on how easy that can be fixed or that it does not matter on the gaming table
other companies are asked for a full refund of the whole box if 1 model inside is slightly damaged and the people will post on social media to avoid those because of bad quality
GW can be as stupid and lazy as they want, it won't affect sales at all
Andrew1975 wrote: Its very difficult to make 1 piece plastic injected infantry, there are going to be undercuts, and I don't think many people would want every infantry piece to be 3-4 parts at this scale (though the missile launcher is not too bad). Just look at any single piece injection molded infantry at any scale, its a problem inherent in the process.
yeah, that is why you design the models to fit the technology and don't use the same base model and pose for different scales
GW is not the only making small scale plastic models, but GW is the only one using 28mm multipart models as base and scaled them down
Even the the original Epic models, while looking worse in design, are of better quality simply because they were sculpted to work with those limitations.
Yes the limits the available poses and it will look less dynamic, but you can avoid impossible undercuts that look bad
this is not because of a limitation in technology but simply because GW did not make dedicated sculpts/poses for the smaller scale
To each their own I guess, I feel the LI infantry are leaps and bounds better than any other Epic release GW has done. Not just on an individual basis but as a whole, when put on the base they look much better than the 5 guys in the exact same static pose we used to get. I don't even think its a competition, once put on the bases, painted and viewed without a magnified glass you can't really even see the issues. As a detachment with a bunch of stands together they look organic, the more of the old Epic bases you put together the worse they looked, a bunch of duplicate stands of clones in the exact same useless static poses. I feel infantry stands went from basic unit tokens to actual miniatures with LI. People looking for perfect infantry at this scale need to look at what else is out there. If its plastic one piece infantry, this is what happens, flames of war, everyone has the same issues and limitations, there is always going to be some angle where some detail looks off.
most of the hard plastic Flames stuff though is posed to minimise the issues, think the only real problem here is the poses match the 28mm multi-part models.
e.g. the bod with the large shadow behind the bolter, a simple repose of the gun to be closer to the chest plate would have, largely, negated it
having seen the models though ,and handled them, once painted its a near total non-issue except in very much up close images or viewed typically from below. about the only awkward bit is the models with helmet crests that fill in to the backpacks, short of separate head thats going to happen though
Former GW retail worker: the return policy is there to protect GW from bad-faith actors, as it is for any company with any return policy. Amazon does what they do because they're such a massive conglomerate that they can absorb the cost of bad-faith actors without much concern, and also because they do other shenanigans on the back-end to protect themselves when needed.
GW does not maintain an Amazon space to sell product. All GW product on Amazon is either from other trade accounts or people reselling GW stuff.
The system is simple: Return the product to the place you bought it from. Many stores do this, GW is not unique in this regard. If you bought it from Amazon, return it to Amazon. If you bought it from a Warhammer store, return it to the Warhammer store.
Guess which of those two will yield you better customer service? Yeah, the Warhammer store. Did it all the time. Works great.
In the case of something being damaged, the typical system is to contact customer service, get their go-ahead to return to a Warhammer store to exchange for other product or get a refund, and then proceed from there. If it's damaged but from another place, you return it to that place. If they wont accept it, then the seller is the one at fault, not GW. Any damage could have been caused by the seller mishandling the product. For regular trade accounts, GW has agreements in place for the seller to support GW product, and if they don't they risk punitive action, so if a regular game store isn't willing to go through the customer service process, you can report them to GW customer service. In any case, GW doesn't charge that trade account for damaged product, they protect them as long as they're following their contracts.
This is not rocket science, and demonizing GW because their return policy is identical to hundreds of other companies out there is ridiculous. In every case, GW will TRY to say yes to you, but every customer and situation is different. Remember, if you're going to Amazon, you're not only saving a buck (and forfeiting customer service support) but also you're choosing not to support the local game store where you're intending to actually play with those models (unless you're only playing at home). Pay where you play - support the local game stores and they'll support you. You want to compare which corporation is more 'evil' and 'penny pinching'? Take a half hour out of your life and look up the skeezy ways Amazon actually conducts their business. GW's not perfect, but Amazon is truly awful.
Now, the box set we already know was a gak-show. All of those boxes had to be opened and the books replaced. You can tell because of the double set of tape placed on the box if you look closely. But, if something was damaged, go through the normal channel to get refunds or replacements depending on where you got it. When in doubt, contact customer service, while keeping in mind that we're a week away from Christmas, so response times will be slower, shipping times will be slower, etc.
As for future releases, we can only hope that it'll be a healthy level of support going forward. Tough to say, but at the very least we gotta get into the new year before anything else happens. I for one am really looking forward to the Dire Wolf, it's such a neat titan concept.
kodos wrote: easy to act stupid if you have a monopoly and people buying everything no matter what
most people having damaged frames are not even going to return the boxes or ask for replacement but just post online on how easy that can be fixed or that it does not matter on the gaming table
other companies are asked for a full refund of the whole box if 1 model inside is slightly damaged and the people will post on social media to avoid those because of bad quality
GW can be as stupid and lazy as they want, it won't affect sales at all
Andrew1975 wrote: Its very difficult to make 1 piece plastic injected infantry, there are going to be undercuts, and I don't think many people would want every infantry piece to be 3-4 parts at this scale (though the missile launcher is not too bad). Just look at any single piece injection molded infantry at any scale, its a problem inherent in the process.
yeah, that is why you design the models to fit the technology and don't use the same base model and pose for different scales
GW is not the only making small scale plastic models, but GW is the only one using 28mm multipart models as base and scaled them down
Even the the original Epic models, while looking worse in design, are of better quality simply because they were sculpted to work with those limitations.
Yes the limits the available poses and it will look less dynamic, but you can avoid impossible undercuts that look bad
this is not because of a limitation in technology but simply because GW did not make dedicated sculpts/poses for the smaller scale
Almost certainly why Solar aux infantry has way fewer issues than space marine infantry
leopard wrote: GWs returns policy isn't the same as many others though
its considerably better from the users point of view, its also encouragement if you care about it to buy direct
This is true! Many places straight up will not help you once the product is sold to you.
GW has a 'set in stone' policy but that's a fall-back to protect the retail workers from being taken advantage from, and you can ask a warhammer store employee to show it to you if you're real curious about the full conditions. In most cases, they'll try to bend a sentence here and there to try to help you out if you're supporting them with your business.
leopard wrote: GWs returns policy isn't the same as many others though
its considerably better from the users point of view, its also encouragement if you care about it to buy direct
This is true! Many places straight up will not help you once the product is sold to you.
GW has a 'set in stone' policy but that's a fall-back to protect the retail workers from being taken advantage from, and you can ask a warhammer store employee to show it to you if you're real curious about the full conditions. In most cases, they'll try to bend a sentence here and there to try to help you out if you're supporting them with your business.
yup, have had quite a few places going on about "you have to return it within seven days" or "you didn't take the extended warranty!" basically hoping you will go away
GW seem to know being at the premium end of the price scale comes with expectations
its good, they have missed the point of transports though. its not that marching infantry can go 15" and a rhino marching goes 18".. its that the rhino marching goes 18", then the infantry gets out and can still move, so you go 18", then the infantry get out, can go 5" and shoot or considerably further if they don't
that table looks really good
and the special rules sections would work a lot better if it was one section note "special rules" and "weapons special rules", just one alphabetical list
My little gaming group bought between us 14 boxed sets of LI plus multiple other titans, Rhinos etc.
Guess how many damaged components we had? Zero, nil, nada. One thing in common though we all ordered through local Warhammer stores. Strongly believe in supporting our local stores. I'm not saying we got preferential service, I am saying as somebody who's worked for a certain company named after a south American river that lots of products going through the warehouse I worked is dropped, thrown or kicked about and management don't care as it's all about deliver quick and undercut the competition as public are stupid and won't blame us.
I have never had a problem with GW customer service, any query/problem was dealt with quickly and with courtesy. If you try to save a few bucks using an unlicensed trader then don't blame gw for your mistake.
SU-152 wrote: So, the trolls that kept saying LI was insanely expensive are gone?
AFAIK, we discussed here that one of the first people that did a review/battle report (Angry Joe over at YT) said as much. And he's still saying it, after multiple games and liking the game quite a bit.
Do the Lightnings count as allies, or are they part of the main army (hoping it's the first)? How many points can you field with what you have?
SU-152 wrote: So, the trolls that kept saying LI was insanely expensive are gone?
I got the main box + box of lightings. Swapped the marines for more SA.
I got a big bunch of infantry, 2 full tank squadrons, 8 Sentinels, 2 Titans, 6 planes, for 180 €.
If you're trying to convince me that you got a great deal, sorry, nah, that still seems quite expensive to me You needed to find someone to trade with in order to maximise the value, and you got 12 tanks that are roughly half the size of an average 40k model, 8 sentinels that are a quarter the size of your average 40k model, 2 titans that if you had any interaction with AT you probably already owned (except with a new hat!), 6 planes that you'll probably only use 3 in a game, and 4 sprues worth of infantry.... 180€ doesn't sound like some massive bargain all considered
SU-152 wrote: So, the trolls that kept saying LI was insanely expensive are gone?
I got the main box + box of lightings. Swapped the marines for more SA.
I got a big bunch of infantry, 2 full tank squadrons, 8 Sentinels, 2 Titans, 6 planes, for 180 €.
If you're trying to convince me that you got a great deal, sorry, nah, that still seems quite expensive to me You needed to find someone to trade with in order to maximise the value, and you got 12 tanks that are roughly half the size of an average 40k model, 8 sentinels that are a quarter the size of your average 40k model, 2 titans that if you had any interaction with AT you probably already owned (except with a new hat!), 6 planes that you'll probably only use 3 in a game, and 4 sprues worth of infantry.... 180€ doesn't sound like some massive bargain all considered
Value is relative... I'm printing 16 LRs at the moment (with sponsons, because I like sponsons in my LRs), and the slicer says it will be about 100ml of resin.
