Damn that painboy makes me want to rip my eyes out with a rusty chainsaw...

Other then that im liking all i see so far. The dull biker and trukk armies of the past will die out which suits me fine, and the shooting and mek nonsense will be
back in power. Good times ahead

SNikrot doesnt replace the nob, so you get both.

What are runtherds like now?

Still compulsory one per ten grots?

Still ten points?

Still come with Squighound and Grabba Stick? What do they do?

Is the Grot Prod the same?

Do the Grots get any special rules at all?

So shootaboys cost 6 or 7 points?

 Melcavuk wrote:
With tank hunter, melta bombs, a price decrease and a trukk the Tankbustas seem pretty reasonable anti tank now. Especially since tank hunter works in melee too (armour bane with rerolls to pen and AP1)

Tank bustas assaulting out of a Trukk with a boarding plank and a busta bomb? That sounds awesome! Even if it is not reliable, it just brings really cool suicide mission type of images to my mind. My bustas have sat un-painted and un-loved for some time, but I think that is going to change!

People only see the bad. I can't believe people aren't jumping on the threat range orks have on a Waaaaagh! With this new book. Trukks and storm boys are especially evil. I understand the loss of the invin save in combat is a biggie, but do you really think people are going to be able to kill that many orks? I for one am worried about what the local ork player is gonna bring now.

I think that those are things that aren't going to hit people until they actually play the game.

It is always tough when your tried and true armies are invalidated by the new codex. Happens fairly often with new books (unless you are Marines of Astra that is).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Loborocket wrote:

 Melcavuk wrote:
With tank hunter, melta bombs, a price decrease and a trukk the Tankbustas seem pretty reasonable anti tank now. Especially since tank hunter works in melee too (armour bane with rerolls to pen and AP1)

Tank bustas assaulting out of a Trukk with a boarding plank and a busta bomb? That sounds awesome! Even if it is not reliable, it just brings really cool suicide mission type of images to my mind. My bustas have sat un-painted and un-loved for some time, but I think that is going to change!

Only problem with using them to assault is that if they manage to blow the vehicle up half of them will die in the conflagration!

one last question this concerns both the rule book and the new codex. the section in Rule book about detachment is confusing me.

If I want to have 4 heavies in my ork army i need to the following? am i doing this right?

Primary Detachment
HQx2
2 x troops
3x heavies

2nd detachment :
2x HQ
2x troop ( do i need to include these in 2nd detachment or can I skip them? )
1x heavy

did I get the above right?

+ can some one explain 3 HQ and 3 troops selection how does that work? any detachment can be like this? or only the main one?

thank you to all who answered my last post of questions. It means a lot to me that you guys took out time to answer my questions.

Perfect Organism wrote:What are runtherds like now?

Still compulsory one per ten grots?

Still ten points?

Still come with Squighound and Grabba Stick? What do they do?

Is the Grot Prod the same?

Do the Grots get any special rules at all?

One per ten compulsary
Still ten
Comes with Grabba stick, can buy squig hound. If the unit breaks the hound causes D3 str 3 hits on the unit, and can then reroll the morale test.
Grot prod can exchange its attacks for a single double strength attack. AP -
Grabba reduces the enemies attacks by one
No special rules, at all

Watarr wrote:So shootaboys cost 6 or 7 points?

Seven

Loborocket wrote:

 Melcavuk wrote:
With tank hunter, melta bombs, a price decrease and a trukk the Tankbustas seem pretty reasonable anti tank now. Especially since tank hunter works in melee too (armour bane with rerolls to pen and AP1)

Tank bustas assaulting out of a Trukk with a boarding plank and a busta bomb? That sounds awesome! Even if it is not reliable, it just brings really cool suicide mission type of images to my mind. My bustas have sat un-painted and un-loved for some time, but I think that is going to change!

Even better on a turn you Waaagh, drive, disembark, run, charge, blow stuff up.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Musibatkhan wrote:
one last question this concerns both the rule book and the new codex. the section in Rule book about detachment is confusing me.

If I want to have 4 heavies in my ork army i need to the following? am i doing this right?

Primary Detachment
HQx2
2 x troops
3x heavies

2nd detachment :
2x HQ
2x troop ( do i need to include these in 2nd detachment or can I skip them? )
1x heavy

did I get the above right?

+ can some one explain 3 HQ and 3 troops selection how does that work? any detachment can be like this? or only the main one?

thank you to all who answered my last post of questions. It means a lot to me that you guys took out time to answer my questions.

To get 2 combined arms detachments you would need 2 HQ, 4 troop total (HQ and 2 troop each) and have access to 6 heavy supports.

The Ork detachment is a different type, has more required troops but more HQ and troop slots. You can take this instead of, aswell as the current coombined arms, or just not take it.

I'm actually like the sound of this new codex. Tankbustas and Flashgits are usable and Looted Wagons are still there (are they in the Codex, or do you have to get the WD?)

The only thing I'm concerned about is the new Mob rule. Orks have poor leadership, and the table sounds like it's going to cause a lot of casualties, although it makes the LD of small units a bit more dependable.

From what I see, the frustrating part is, the rules do not support a 'competitive' ork list I want to play.

I imagine most of us want to hurl our boyz across the table in grand fashion, and mix it up on the other side of the table with good results. We want to see the fear in our opponent's eyes as the wagons pull up and the boyz hop out.

Problem is, the codex does not support that sort of aggressive action. We don't have the points to spam enough threats or the durability to support those threats.

The ork army will win games the way it's always won games, since late 5th and through 6th. By hiding and surviving. Winning means carefully marshaling your resources (boyz) and protecting them till turn 5 or 6 when you're on the objectives.

If you try to play aggressively, your opponent's amazingly deadly shooting army will laugh, and gun your boyz down in the undoubtedly open terrain filling the board. .Assault armies are still popular in this game, but they come with rerollable +2 saves and 12+ inch movement. They do not walk across the table in T-shirts.

As an example, I played a Tyranid player with my Tau. I played a game of 40k. He played 7 turns of "dodge the missile". He almost won simply by not dying, but he didn't enjoy the game, because he couldn't actually be aggressive like his army was supposed to be.

PapaSoul wrote:
People only see the bad. I can't believe people aren't jumping on the threat range orks have on a Waaaaagh! With this new book. Trukks and storm boys are especially evil. I understand the loss of the invin save in combat is a biggie, but do you really think people are going to be able to kill that many orks? I for one am worried about what the local ork player is gonna bring now.

You mean the 12 orks assaulting from a trukk? Assuming the trukk, having suffered further to become even less of a transport of worth with the ramshackle nerf, gets anywhere without being vaporized.

Yes, I'd imagine between overwatch, ork gak initiative and gak armor save, the 'trukk assault' remains as totally useless as it's always been for taking on anything other than an imperial guard heavy weapon squad...

PapaSoul wrote:
People only see the bad. I can't believe people aren't jumping on the threat range orks have on a Waaaaagh! With this new book. Trukks and storm boys are especially evil. I understand the loss of the invin save in combat is a biggie, but do you really think people are going to be able to kill that many orks? I for one am worried about what the local ork player is gonna bring now.

Yeah I think the threat range for assault is awesome. Then the stuff can't be shoot in' me as I am bringing up the 2nd wave since they are locked in combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PhillyT wrote:
I think that those are things that aren't going to hit people until they actually play the game.

It is always tough when your tried and true armies are invalidated by the new codex. Happens fairly often with new books (unless you are Marines of Astra that is).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Loborocket wrote:

 Melcavuk wrote:
With tank hunter, melta bombs, a price decrease and a trukk the Tankbustas seem pretty reasonable anti tank now. Especially since tank hunter works in melee too (armour bane with rerolls to pen and AP1)

Tank bustas assaulting out of a Trukk with a boarding plank and a busta bomb? That sounds awesome! Even if it is not reliable, it just brings really cool suicide mission type of images to my mind. My bustas have sat un-painted and un-loved for some time, but I think that is going to change!

Only problem with using them to assault is that if they manage to blow the vehicle up half of them will die in the conflagration!

Yeah I said it was a suicide mission. But stuff does not blow up as easy anymore.

 Bonde wrote:
I'm actually like the sound of this new codex. Tankbustas and Flashgits are usable and Looted Wagons are still there (are they in the Codex, or do you have to get the WD?)

Looted wagons are in WD, not the codex, they are in WD because people in GW do, I suspect, read forums, read the anger from ork players about their removal and said 'oops' and threw us a bone with the WD entry.

Whilst I do actually need to sit down with the codex and read it for myself, what's being reported here is... highly frustrating and disappointing. It reads like it was written by someone with no love of the army.

Thanks how many pts are kommandos now? Is snikrot the same amount of pts?

It looks like, to open up those heavy support slots in a battleforged army - you know, to have more than one Dread, Kanz, or Lootas unit in the same army - Orks will have to pay a minimum of 80 points in "grot tax" for another detachment.

That's a bummer for fans of the classic Dread/Kan wall with Lootas support, right?

Or is there some other way around it that I haven't seen?

so basically orks need to go unbound?

i am not amused...

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Whilst I do actually need to sit down with the codex and read it for myself, what's being reported here is... highly frustrating and disappointing. It reads like it was written by someone with no love of the army.

Yes, this is where I am now. I'm not butthurt until I read the book with my own eyes, not that I think anyone's lying... but from what I read it sounds disappointing. I think the old book was one of the best in 40k.

RedNoak wrote:
so basically orks need to go unbound?

i am not amused...

Yes, to be able to play my orks i need to convince my gaming group that unbound is fun and cinematic and not at all the pit of steaming rotten cheese that it is...

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Whilst I do actually need to sit down with the codex and read it for myself, what's being reported here is... highly frustrating and disappointing. It reads like it was written by someone with no love of the army.

QFT. I'm thinking about playing 2 combined arms detachments in order to field 15 Mek Gunz + Battlewagons (maybe 1x KFF Morkanaut).
HQs would be 4x KFF Big Meks to have protection for my boyz. Deffkopters/Buggies in Fast Attack. Could be fun...

Also I'm sorry if those questions have been answered, but I'd like to know:
- Is it true that Deffkoptaz have seen a point drop? Have they been nerfed?
- Is it true that Buggies have seen a point drop? Are they able to outflank? Can we take up to 5 buggies per unit?

Thanks in advance, guys!

30 Points base, gun swaps are free, still a jetbike.

25 points base, gun swap is free, upto 5, can outflank

 Bonzofever wrote:

Also I'm sorry if those questions have been answered, but I'd like to know:
- Is it true that Deffkoptaz have seen a point drop? Have they been nerfed?
- Is it true that Buggies have seen a point drop? Are they able to outflank? Can we take up to 5 buggies per unit?

Thanks in advance, guys!

yes to all of that. main point drop is the free rokkit exchange.



still, the support section seems way to overcrowded...

[ELITE]
nobz
bustaz
burnaz
kommandoz

[FAST]
stormboys
koptaz
buggys
bikes

[TROOPS]
boyz
gretchin

[SUPPORT]
looted wagon
battlewagon
big gunz
lootaz
kanz
deffs
flash gitz
GM'nautz

 Melcavuk wrote:
30 Points base, gun swaps are free, still a jetbike.

25 points base, gun swap is free, upto 5, can outflank

Thank you very much
So basically twin-linked rokkit launchas are a free option now? This sounds really great, doesn't it?

edit: thx RedNoak

It looks like my army won't be changing very much at all.
I run tankbustas (got cheaper), lootas (cheaper), rokkit buggies (cheaper), deffkoptas (cheaper), Big Mek HQ,
Shoota boyz in trukks (ok, those took a hit), and a Dakkajet.
I guess I'll be dropping the jet and upgrading the shoota boyz to 'ard boyz and see how that works. Should still be fun.

RedNoak wrote:

 Bonzofever wrote:

Also I'm sorry if those questions have been answered, but I'd like to know:
- Is it true that Deffkoptaz have seen a point drop? Have they been nerfed?
- Is it true that Buggies have seen a point drop? Are they able to outflank? Can we take up to 5 buggies per unit?

Thanks in advance, guys!

yes to all of that. main point drop is the free rokkit exchange.



still, the support section seems way to overcrowded...

[ELITE]
nobz
bustaz
burnaz
kommandoz

[FAST]
stormboys
koptaz
buggys
bikes

[TROOPS]
boyz
gretchin

[SUPPORT]
looted wagon
battlewagon
big gunz
lootaz
kanz
deffs
flash gitz
GM'nautz

Only half the army is in HS. atleast move Flashgits to elite if you move Lootas to HS. And Nobz should be troops imo.

How do killa kans take their leadership tests?

With so much in the heavy support, we really want more force orgs. The problem is... so do other armies. And they're much happier to get it than we. With multiple force orgs, we get more big gunz or wagons. Necrons for example though... get more annihilation barges. And I don't think I need to spell out who wins that one.

Well, the big let down for me is that Kommandos are still the same,
not able to blow-up a thing, even if they are carrying enough
explosives to blow a whole damn bridge up...

They have knives, axes, sluggas and...
That's it.

Shame. Nice figs.

RedNoak wrote:

 Bonzofever wrote:

Also I'm sorry if those questions have been answered, but I'd like to know:
- Is it true that Deffkoptaz have seen a point drop? Have they been nerfed?
- Is it true that Buggies have seen a point drop? Are they able to outflank? Can we take up to 5 buggies per unit?

Thanks in advance, guys!

yes to all of that. main point drop is the free rokkit exchange.



still, the support section seems way to overcrowded...

[ELITE]
nobz
bustaz
burnaz
kommandoz

[FAST]
stormboys
koptaz
buggys
bikes

[TROOPS]
boyz
gretchin

[SUPPORT]
looted wagon
battlewagon
big gunz
lootaz
kanz
deffs
flash gitz
GM'nautz

You are forgetting:

Elites :
Manz

Fast:
Stormboyz
jets and bombas

thanks so much!
what are stikkbombs, and who can take em,
Do stormboyz have 'ere we go'?
grots have nothing special anymore? can you give more info on grots?

Tank bustas should have been moved to Troops.

Flashgitz to Elite

We have only 2 Troops

5 Elites

5 Fast

8 Heavy????

rather than adding lootaz to heavy they should have added them to Troops.

Its so ork players start pushing for multiple FoC's in their playgroup. But again, this isn't a road we want to go down, as while it helps us... it helps other armies waaaaay more.

anyone else notice that nazgrek steeleye looks like its just a conversion from a mega nob with a funny (godawful) face......... not much work on that one gw

Buggies are pretty incredible now, but it isn't the TL Rokkits that have caught my eye, for 125 points you can get 5 with TL Big Shootas as I understand it.

Putting out 15 TL S5 AP5 shots at 36'', spread out across 5 vehicles which can reposition quickly is pretty sensational even at BS2.

I forget, is the skorcha twinlinked? That has potential for sure with outflank

I wonder if this book will set the tone for the rest of the 7th ed books? No changes to FOC - which requires using unbound armies ( which may or may not be cool, depending on your gaming environment). Large vehicle price bumps (if the open topped, rear armor 10, glanced to death with deep striking storm bolters, battlewagon is increased by 20 points I can't wait to see the increase I price for landraiders). I think it is difficult to gauge how all of this is going to work together, but there seems to have been a ton of changes to things that were working fine (ramshackle and fearless over 10 models). I can't wait to get the book and look at it myself, but my initial reaction is hesitant based on the reported shifts in rules and FOC changes.

stormboy wrote:
I wonder if this book will set the tone for the rest of the 7th ed books? No changes to FOC - which requires using unbound armies ( which may or may not be cool, depending on your gaming environment). Large vehicle price bumps (if the open topped, rear armor 10, glanced to death with deep striking storm bolters, battlewagon is increased by 20 points I can't wait to see the increase I price for landraiders). I think it is difficult to gauge how all of this is going to work together, but there seems to have been a ton of changes to things that were working fine (ramshackle and fearless over 10 models). I can't wait to get the book and look at it myself, but my initial reaction is hesitant based on the reported shifts in rules and FOC changes.

Honestly the Battlewagon was maybe 10 points underpriced being AV14 and having I believe 4 HP. They're still worth It given they can carry 20 Boys, soak up fire and then do a move-disembark-charge thanks to open topped.

The advice to play Unbound for your Biker/Nob/Dread armies is just kind of naff.

Can't play a list that was legal a few days ago...and, wasn't even particularly competitive then?

Well, you should just play Unbound, because having one Dread per Big Mek as troops is TOTALLY in the same category as having anything you want in any combination from any army. You play your unbound ork army with three dreads as troops, and I will play my unbound army with Riptides and Wave Serpents. Completely level playing field there.

There's two huge glaring problems with this advice. Many people (and I suspect the people who want to play Dread heavy lists are some of them) view Unbound as GW's lazy shoulder shrugging of any attempt to allow themed lists. "We can't figure out how to let you play a Genestealer Cult army, because rules are hard. So just take whatever you want." We don't think taking Biker mobs as troops rises to the level of taking anything from any Codex.

The second problem is that not only did our own previous Codex allow this with incredibly brief rules, but many existing Codexes still allow this mechanism. GW ADDED the option to take tanks as troops in the Astra Militarum Codex, and then dropped FOC manipulation in ours. Space Marines can still take Bikers as troops in a Battleforged army but it's 'anything goes' if Orks do it?

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Buggies are pretty incredible now, but it isn't the TL Rokkits that have caught my eye, for 125 points you can get 5 with TL Big Shootas as I understand it.

Putting out 25 TL S5 AP5 shots at 36'', spread out across 5 vehicles which can reposition quickly is pretty sensational even at BS2.

I forget, is the skorcha u? That has potential for sure with outflank

Where are you getting 25 shots? Wouldn't it be 15 as big shootasbhave 3 shots each?

What are the prices of nobs and lootas now? 18 and 14?

Provided the rumors are true, and the Kill Kannon is moved to str 8, I think the wagon will become more of a gun platform than an assault transport.

The changes to the damage table don't benefit us as much as others, because open topped is still very likely to go big when you get penned.

No escape means your boys aren't really protected anymore. Fast moving flamers are even more dangerous to your precious contents.

Sure, a 'ard case, kill kannon battlewagon is inferior in about every way to a single, cheaper leman russ... but hey... what did you expect? We're the bad guys. We're target practice for some kid playing space marines.

I can't find pick/screen shot of the new meganobs what page was that one?

Da Butcha wrote:
The advice to play Unbound for your Biker/Nob/Dread armies is just kind of naff.

it wasnt an advise... 'twas an observation.

GW is forcing us to use the new unbound rules... or rather to accept them.

the best bits of the new kodex are cheap lootaz, cheap looted waggons, buffed dreads, 6 kanz and the new big guns options... all in the support section.

boyz got more expensive... bikers and stormboyz changes are kinda 'meh'

elite slots had got a major buff but mainly cause the lootaz were moved to support

and the new mob rule makes us rely more on firepower... i.e. SUPPORT.


EDIT:

Goresaw wrote:
Provided the rumors are true, and the Kill Kannon is moved to str 8, I think the wagon will become more of a gun platform than an assault transport.

sources stated no change for the killkannon. still str 7 and 24" so no instakill for all those T4 models

 Melcavuk wrote:
Tankbusta bomb is now a melta bomb, not sure if thats different from before (str 8 AP1, unwieldy, armourbane does seem an advantage on the old "krak but 2D6 armour pen). They derfinately have the tank hunter special rule listed in their special rules. they definately got a 2 point decrease, can take a trukk, and get 2 VP for first blood if they blow up a tank.

Kommandos got move through cover, stealth and infiltrate.

Snikrot causes fear.

I'd been saving bits for Tankbusta conversions. Now that they actually seem worth it I'm going to build a frag load of them.

stormboy wrote:
I can't find pick/screen shot of the new meganobs what page was that one?

New MANZ are on pages way too far back to check out so they're under the spoiler.

From what I've read and seen online, I quite like the sounds of this codex. This is from a modelling over gaming perspective and from me trying to get into Orks, beginning with 7th edition.

Stuff I like mainly;

Badrukk as a separate HQ, new Flash Gitz models and 'Ard Boys as Troops / Boyz upgrades (I think that's what someone said?).

Only thing I really wanted that seems to be missing is the Forge World Big Gunz to be included in the codex somewhere, because I love the look of those resin artillery pieces. (I am aware that Killkannons are in the 'dex for Battlewagons I believe?)

I am really considering a small force of old-school Ork outcasts and freaks, you know; Madboyz and possessed Weirdboys, Khorne Stormboys, chaos-orientated Orks renegades, old Codex Daemon Hunters "Adversaries"-style mutants, Ork Genestealer Hybrids and generally just mashing up the dregs of Ork society up together under the all-encompassing Freebooter flag / Jolly Ork!

Yarrrrrrr!

ps. cheeky plug I know, but I started painting one of the new Flash Gitz yesterday, a couple of pics in my painting thread.

So, let's talk about bosspoles for a second. Old rules, you took one wound and then get a reroll of the leadership check.

NamelessBard wrote:


D6 Result
1
If the unit is locked in combat, it passes the Morale check or Pinning test. If the unit is not locked in combat, it fails.
2-3
If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
4-6
If the unit has 10 or more models, it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. The hits are Randomly Allocated. If the unit has fewer than 10 models, it fails the Morale check or Pinning test.

New rules are more complicated. If you have more than ten models, you can pass after taking D6 S4 hits 50% of the time. If you have less than ten models, you can only pass on a 1-3, and even then, only a 2-3 if you're not locked in combat. How does that compare to a boss pole reroll?

I'm thinking of running trukkboyz and this has me scratching my head. I don't think I'm going to be able to use the 4-6 result most of the time I get a leadership check with these new rules.

Do we still get army-wide Furious Charge?

So can we make a single post with all the news in?

KurtAngle2 wrote:
So can we make a single post with all the news in?

Sure, if you like. Go for it.

So did some math on my 1500 point army to see what the net change would be points wise. I don't have the book so I'm just going off what I think or remember being mentioned in the thread. Are Gretchen or the Runtherd cheaper? Might be able to knock a few more points off if so.

10x nobz point reduction = 2 per? for -20
12x lootas point reduction = 1 per? for -12
2 TLRL Buggies -5 per buggy and free rokkit upgrade = -30 total
2 TLRL Deffkoptas -5 per kopta and free rokkit upgrade = -30 total

52x shoota boyz point increase +1 = +52

So i gain 92 points but lose 52 on the shoota change meaning I'm still +40 in "free stuff" I can add now, not bad!

With ere we go and old Waaaagh! and saving another +52 points it might not be a bad idea to bring the ol choppa / slugga boyz back out, 92 points total would be kind of a big deal now given how cheap some of this stuff has gotten, that's almost enough to make one of my mobs an Ard boyz squad... interesting! Definitely nice to have more points to play around with.

Of course I didn't WANT shoota boyz to go up but it's hard to argue that they aren't 1 point superior to slugga boyz. Maybe slugga boyz should have went to 5 and shootas stayed the same but all in all like I said, I'm still gaining points so it's all a wash to me.

 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:

 zachwho wrote:
ok dakkamite, i like you man. wish we could play over some beer and hot wings.

I'm personally excited about the ability to change our foc, and take 9 troops. objective secured is important. and AND burnas in a dedicated trukk!!!! I'm so excited, and i just can't hide it!!!

Just when you thought the green tide list had a lot of boyz before, now you can have almost 300 orks in the troops slot alone. Though painting that many models seems... extreme.

Not a fantasy player, eh? I have one block of 300 Skaven Slaves, with two more blocks of 200 Clan Rats. That's 700 models in just three core slots... Most basic fantasy armies have model counts easily into the 200-ish models. You think 40K is expensive to get into? When you pay $50 for 10 Dwarfs, $40 for Eternal Guard... most core choices are 10-20 models for $35-$50+ and most core choices need at least 20 models (40-50 is probably a good number for ranks, especially troops with bows/firearms or spears). It's no wonder there are no new Fantasy players and that it's slowly dieing out- every new army book or edition pretty much destroys the old army and forces you to rebuild or buy the new kits.

But this is not that kind of discussion. We are here discussin' da new Boyz, and 'ow theyz gonna stomp da 'Umies.

With this overall shift from large squads of boys backed up by some Nobs, (horde army) to a more... well, gunline is about the most appropriate way to put it, how will da Boyz fare? Most of the army is BS 2, with a lot of twin linked of course, but blast weapons scatter further, the vehicles seem to be more expensive then the Imperium equivalent but without the durability, and the new morale chart... that thing is insane! Causing so many extra hits on a mob that has already lost enough to force a check... yeah, that's just... what was GW thinking?!?!

Will the Orks be a good army with pretty fragile troops backed up by artillery/"random" firepower? This works for the Imperial Guard (Astra whatever they are....), but they have orders, great vehicles, and the ability to field overwhelming firepower. Is this what the Orks will be able to do?

Man, those MANz are depressingly boring sculpts, aren't they? They're basically the same as the metals.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Man, those MANz are depressingly boring sculpts, aren't they? They're basically the same as the metals.

They are pretty same-y, but what could you expect? Rogue Trader MANZ? Having crab claws back would be awesome, though.
The only thing I really dislike about them is that one nob head with metal teef. Got to be the most ridiculous thing you could do to an Ork - James Bond Jaws much?

Oestergaard wrote:
Do we still get army-wide Furious Charge?

hey... we DO get the army wide furious charge... right?!

so far i heard nothin about that... can someone confirm this?

I haven't played the game in years, looking to get back into it in the next month or two. So while most of this rules chat is going over my head at the mo I'm still enjoying the new models very much.

I'm finding the idea of fixed pose plastics hard to get used to though, everything plastic has always been multi pose/multi option or just a vehicle.

I can't look at the new painboy in paticular without being disappointed at how limited it is in it's scope. It looks like it could be converted to a different pose but it would be a pricey failure if I messed it up.

The new manz are looking great though, I'm still excited for those.

It's gotten this bad, lol.

Oestergaard wrote:
Do we still get army-wide Furious Charge?

"The only thing I really dislike about them is that one nob head with metal teef. Got to be the most ridiculous thing you could do to an Ork - James Bond Jaws much?"
That's the only head I see that I like! well that and the Meks head..
I guess the MANZ come out the week the codex is in stores?

 warhead01 wrote:
"The only thing I really dislike about them is that one nob head with metal teef. Got to be the most ridiculous thing you could do to an Ork - James Bond Jaws much?"
That's the only head I see that I like! well that and the Meks head..
I guess the MANZ come out the week the codex is in stores?

As it happens an ork losing his teef and having to get them replaced with metal ones is a massive blow to their respect/credibility. Was a possibility when seeing the Dok in Gorkamorka I think...

"As it happens an ork losing his teef and having to get them replaced with metal ones is a massive blow to their respect/credibility. Was a possibility when seeing the Dok in Gorkamorka I think..."

I'll have to take a look and see. I have those book but it's been forever. WAAAGH da metal teef!

Sorry I would like a clarification:

ANYTIME you have a leadership, morale or pinning test, you have to roll on Mob Rule? That means it's conceivable to have a wagon explode take 20x S4 hits. Take a pinning test with d6 S4 hits and then a morale check for an ADDITONAL d6 hits? WTF?

So an expensive, nerfed, battle wagon "Explodes!" You can expect to take up to 20+2d6 hits that wound a little less than 50% of the time? Someone tell me this isn't true. Please.

Thought orkz grew back there teeth like sharks, that's what the 4th ed book said, as bad moons grow there teeth the fastest

That doesn't make any sense- I always thought Orks did the shark toof style, and grew many, many sets over their lifetime. They'd lose any metal teef when the next set grew in. That was one of the reasons they used teef for currency. Every Ork had some, and it was a reasonably valuable trophy.

 doktor_g wrote:
Sorry I would like a clarification:

ANYTIME you have a leadership, morale or pinning test, you have to roll on Mob Rule? That means it's conceivable to have a wagon explode take 20x S4 hits. Take a pinning test with d6 S4 hits and then a morale check for an ADDITONAL d6 hits? WTF?

So an expensive, nerfed, battle wagon "Explodes!" You can expect to take up to 20+2d6 hits that wound a little less than 50% of the time? Someone tell me this isn't true. Please.

You're not considering the narratives enough.. Just because a rule might be totally debilitating and poorly thought out, doesn't mean it's not FLUFFY. You know, because Ork mobs randomly kill each other every time a few of them die.. or one gets hit by a sniper!

Thought the roll on the table was after the leadership test was failed


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It says "if a mob ever fails a morale or pinning check it must roll on the mob rule table"

On that note, does that mean they can never be pinned since that chart is suppose to be instead of the usual result from failing a morale?
Still test obviously and roll on chart if failed, but cannot actually be "stuck"

Quick question: DId the older paint boy ever come out in finecast?

Yep they can't be pinned, they can still fall back on a roll of a one, and if you don't have a character or 10+ models you take the usual affects of failing the test, but we still get to go to ground

 Gitzbitah wrote:
That doesn't make any sense- I always thought Orks did the shark toof style, and grew many, many sets over their lifetime. They'd lose any metal teef when the next set grew in. That was one of the reasons they used teef for currency. Every Ork had some, and it was a reasonably valuable trophy.

5-6 Steel Teef. The Doc has removed the
patient’s teef and replaced them with
steel ones (some Docs get very rich, very
quickly). Though the warrior is now
immune to the ‘Gobsmacked’ serious
injury, he suffers -1 Leadership as his
steel choppers just aren’t properly Orky.

Presumably the ork would eventually grow a new set of teef, but not within the scope/timescale of a Gorkamorka mob career.

 deffrekka wrote:
Thought the roll on the table was after the leadership test was failed


It says "if a mob ever fails a morale or pinning check it must roll on the mob rule table"

Oh thank Gork... or Mork

 Vineheart01 wrote:
On that note, does that mean they can never be pinned since that chart is suppose to be instead of the usual result from failing a morale?
Still test obviously and roll on chart if failed, but cannot actually be "stuck"

Yeah instead you have a chance of running away from failing a single pinning test :p Bonus..

 Deunstephe wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Man, those MANz are depressingly boring sculpts, aren't they? They're basically the same as the metals.

They are pretty same-y, but what could you expect? Rogue Trader MANZ? Having crab claws back would be awesome, though.
The only thing I really dislike about them is that one nob head with metal teef. Got to be the most ridiculous thing you could do to an Ork - James Bond Jaws much?

Aren't the new MANz three for $60, too?
Guess what else is three for $60?

Yeah, I'll be getting these instead (and not because most of my Ork army is already Kromlech models, hehe)..

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Aren't the new MANz three for $60, too?
Guess what else is three for $60?

Spoiler:

Yeah, I'll be getting these instead (and not because most of my Ork army is already Kromlech models, hehe)..

Nice... well I too have sat and stared at the new oddly flat faced plastics from GW vs these highly detailed resin models and have come to the same conclusion.

'well, ladz, dis iz it. we got new rulez of ingajemint, handed down from higher up. gork (or possibly mork) sez ya gotz ta turn in all yer choppaz, sluggaz, power klawz, and other stabby gubbinz. we gotz new weaponz ta give ya. here'z yer new nerfy dart shootaz, with soft foamy bullitz. and here'z da new choppaz. lookit dat high kwality foam coating! dey almost lookz like da real fing! so get in line, nice and orderly, fer yer new gear...'

*several minutes of orks merrily whacking each other with foam blades ensues*

'hey, boss, if ya takez da foam off, dis plastic bit can leave a nice welt! and if ya breakz da end, it can be stab-'

'oi! none o' dat! dat pointy bit could scratch da paint on a mareen'z armor!'

I have a freaking massive Ork army (my first army, and around fifteen years old). Having played since third ed., it seems the tendency in codices these days is largely a return to 3rd/4th ed play style. A lot of the stuff that people aren't seeing as good is actually very strong in practice and hearken back to the old school books. I'm not weighing in on competitiveness because I really don't play that way and don't care too much. But guys, the price drops and changes are all pretty amazing for an old-style list. Downgrading from a pen to glance is HUGE, it was one of the hidden gems of old orks. IWND on vehicles is massive as anyone who's played Iron Hands can tell you. I definitely understand the annoyance if you've built a narrower list of units, I do. But you know, there's a lot of very cheap Ork goodness to be built and kitbashed from eBay and such too. I think the new book will reward the big, sprawling Ork collection much more tan the competitive player, sort of like the NIds book.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Aren't the new MANz three for $60, too?
Guess what else is three for $60?

Spoiler:

Yeah, I'll be getting these instead (and not because most of my Ork army is already Kromlech models, hehe)..

Nice... well I too have sat and stared at the new oddly flat faced plastics from GW vs these highly detailed resin models and have come to the same conclusion.

I'm buying the box of Meganobz. I use a Kromlech one as a Mega boss ;cause they're so big

GW ADDED the option to take tanks as troops in the Astra Militarum Codex- where is that in the am book? as far as i have read there is no units moving around foc slots in am or in any old ig book i have.
in 6th and 5th when a dread moved to a troop they did not become scoreing units so i would say that they are in some ways more a troop now in 7th since all units are scoreing. i think the real issue is you guys want to tank dreads and a bunch of other hs choices and kinda sounds like you just dont want to loose the objective secured rule on your grot blobs by building unbound. i dont think many people would have an issue with an unbound list if they know ahead of time (as long as your not just going baneblade hellhammer stormlord and a few vendettas to get your 2k list). multiple detachments work around the unbound 4 trukk units, 4big meks, how many points you got left for kans and dreads?

morpheuschild wrote:
'well, ladz, dis iz it. we got new rulez of ingajemint, handed down from higher up. gork (or possibly mork) sez ya gotz ta turn in all yer choppaz, sluggaz, power klawz, and other stabby gubbinz. we gotz new weaponz ta give ya. here'z yer new nerfy dart shootaz, with soft foamy bullitz. and here'z da new choppaz. lookit dat high kwality foam coating! dey almost lookz like da real fing! so get in line, nice and orderly, fer yer new gear...'

*several minutes of orks merrily whacking each other with foam blades ensues*

'hey, boss, if ya takez da foam off, dis plastic bit can leave a nice welt! and if ya breakz da end, it can be stab-'

'oi! none o' dat! dat pointy bit could scratch da paint on a mareen'z armor!'

Now going to make an army of orks armed with nothing but paint strippers...

Presumably the GW kit will also have bitz for a MAN Big Mek, and it's much easier to get a decent discount on GW than Kromlech, so there's that. The Kromlech MANz do look a lot more impressive, tho. If they're really the same base price it's gonna be a tough call.

Back to the BW exploding:

Really all we have to do is roll 8+ on 2d6 TWICE and we suffer 20+2d6 S4 hits. On average that's 27 hits. Half of which wound and 1 out of 6 makes his armor save.

That's a group of 20 boyz going to 9 boyz.

Yay Orks?

"FAQ you're our only hope...."

Do you really have to take a pinning test every time there's an explodes result?

Grimgor Skullbusta wrote:

 Gitzbitah wrote:
That doesn't make any sense- I always thought Orks did the shark toof style, and grew many, many sets over their lifetime. They'd lose any metal teef when the next set grew in. That was one of the reasons they used teef for currency. Every Ork had some, and it was a reasonably valuable trophy.

5-6 Steel Teef. The Doc has removed the
patient’s teef and replaced them with
steel ones (some Docs get very rich, very
quickly). Though the warrior is now
immune to the ‘Gobsmacked’ serious
injury, he suffers -1 Leadership as his
steel choppers just aren’t properly Orky.

Presumably the ork would eventually grow a new set of teef, but not within the scope/timescale of a Gorkamorka mob career.

From 'Ere We Go...

so your open topped battlewagon can be exploded by a str8+ weapon(due to the plus 1 mod that works against open topped) if it explodes every model suffers a str4 ap - hit is this d6 your adding the one for the mob rule that you only have to roll if you fail your pinning test?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
yes you have to take pinning test on every explode result

Footslogging 30 boy mobz with a KFF seems like a MUCH more sound option now

 Multimoog wrote:
Footslogging 30 boy mobz with a KFF seems like a MUCH more sound option now

Why's that, because the KFF got nerfed to MODELS within 6 inches? How many individual boyz are you going to be able to fit within that KFF radius?

You also do realize that a 30 man squad has a leadership of 8, and if you fail that leadership test and roll a 1 that entire mob can run off the board on either a pinning or a morale check?

Do you also realize that shoota boyz now cost 7 points a model? That unit now costs 30 points more than it used to, and it is NOT fearless, and it does NOT get full coverage of the KFF. Only individual models within 6 inches do, and I'm not sure what percentage of a 30 man mob that would even be.

 Multimoog wrote:
Footslogging 30 boy mobz with a KFF seems like a MUCH more sound option now

How is it more sound now? Before, you could keep your KFF inside a BW and measure out from the hull, so you could cover several mobz of 30 boyz. Now you have to keep your KFF outside and vulnerable with a smaller range. It makes me sad :(

The only good thing is the Gorkanaut can take a KFF now.

Boyz = 5 and Shoota upgrade +1 I think. So priced the same at 6 per. That REEEEEALLLLY sucks about the KFF. Would rather just keep the cover save.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:
Footslogging 30 boy mobz with a KFF seems like a MUCH more sound option now

Why's that, because the KFF got nerfed to MODELS within 6 inches? How many individual boyz are you going to be able to fit within that KFF radius?

You also do realize that a 30 man squad has a leadership of 8, and if you fail that leadership test and roll a 1 that entire mob can run off the board on either a pinning or a morale check?

Do you also realize that shoota boyz now cost 7 points a model? That unit now costs 30 points more than it used to, and it is NOT fearless, and it does NOT get full coverage of the KFF. Only individual models within 6 inches do, and I'm not sure what percentage of a 30 man mob that would even be.

Forget the KFF, the skyshield is the way to go. with the new 6" coherency between elevation, you can have a few boys on the shield and the rest snaking their way across the board.

How many models in a unit have to be on the shield for the unit to be on the shield?
well 1 model in difficult terrain makes the whole unit roll to move through difficult terrain
1 model charging through terrain gives the -2" penalty to the unit.
1 model in your shooting unit can not fully see a model, then that model gets a cover save from your unit.

so 1 model on the shield is enough to qualify for the unit to get it's 4++

so it is possible for 75 points to give your 180+ boys a 4++

Or use the void shields as they also protect the unit, and again 1 model under it protects the unit and protects us from blast weapons.

when you say 6in on the kff it is true but you technically have a 12in bubble as 6in in all directions is still a decent sized space yes the kff doesnt auto cover the whole unit and only affects the vehicles the character is embarked in. yes its been nerfed but is actually much more realistic, and is now on par with the da force field thing, wonder if all of these options will get hit the same way.
how many armies get an inv that they can pass out to other units anyways, and i think it is a worse hit loseing the cybork bodies, but now every squad can take eavy armour,

 doktor_g wrote:
Boyz = 5 and Shoota upgrade +1 I think. So priced the same at 6 per. That REEEEEALLLLY sucks about the KFF. Would rather just keep the cover save.

No... 6 +1 for shoota

 doktor_g wrote:
Boyz = 5 and Shoota upgrad +1 I think. =6

6/7

 Melcavuk wrote:

Watarr wrote:So shootaboys cost 6 or 7 points?

Seven

 doktor_g wrote:
Boyz = 5 and Shoota upgrade +1 I think. So priced the same at 6 per. That REEEEEALLLLY sucks about the KFF. Would rather just keep the cover save.

Slugga boy is 6, Shoota boy is 7. Both come with stikkbombs as standard.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Man, those MANz are depressingly boring sculpts, aren't they? They're basically the same as the metals.

You can't improve on perfection! I like the heads better!

COLLECTED LEAKED INFO

HQs listed as
Zagstruk
Grotsnik
Mek is a slotless HQ, 1 per actual HQ bought, has Boy statline
Big Mek does not change FoC "A Big Mek may take items from the Mek Weapons, Melee Weapons, Runts & Squigs, Orky Know-wots and/or Gifts of Gork and Mork lists."
Painboy Painboy is IC, so put him where you need him, can take a bike, no 'Eavy Armor
Warboss does not change FoC
Weirdboy. gain a Warp Charge point if there are 10 or more models with the 'ere we go rule (Pretty much any Ork from what I've seen) in 12" but has to take a psychic save or take a hit. Can be upgraded to Psyker level 2. Power of the Waaagh! and Daemonlogy disciplines.
Badrukk is a HQ (3+, 5++, str 7 AP2 assault 3 gun) , Badrukk has the rules listed for Da Rippa, but it is not listed in his wargear
Snikrot is not HQ, Snikkrot an elite (doesnt take a slot if taken with Kommandos) (shrouded on arrival, you pick an edge to outflank dont roll), causes fear.
No Wazdakka
No Zogwort.
Ghaz is a LOW now, can take runts/squigs, stats look unchaged

D6 Warlord Trait
1 Prophet of the Waaagh!: Mork (or possibly Gork) has chosen this Warlord for greatness, and every Ork under his command knows it.
The Warlord gains the Waaagh! special rule. If the Warlord already has the Waaagh! special rule then, in addition to the usual effects, all friendly models with the ’Ere We Go! special rule gain the Fearless special rule when he calls a Waaagh!, until the start of their next turn.
2 Bellowing Tyrant: This Warlord is an unholy terror, a roaring lunatic whose every (very loud) word is law.
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, re-roll failed Morale checks and Pinning tests.
3 Like a Thunderbolt!: This Warlord is a master of the all-out, no-holds-barred, headlong charge into battle.
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, can re-roll all the dice when determining Run moves or charge range.
4 Brutal but Kunnin’: This Warlord has a sneaky streak a mile wide and knows just where to hit his foes.
The Warlord can re-roll one failed To Hit or To Wound roll each turn.
5 Kunnin’ but Brutal: The Warlord knows when to roll with a punch, and can shrug off the hardest blows.
The Warlord can re-roll one failed armour or invulnerable saving throw each turn.
6 Might is Right: Made of muscle and aggression, this Warlord is the embodiment of the Orks’ warlike nature.
The Warlord receives +1 to the Strength characteristic on his profile.

Power of the Waaagh!
Primaris power is Frazzle (Blast witchfire).
'Eadbanger is now a focussed witchfire.
Warpath is a self blessing
Da jump is what used to be 'ere we go.
Killbolt is a beam attack.
Power vomit is a template witchfire.
Da Krunch is a barrage witchfire.

Mob rule is replaced by the D6 roll on Mob Chart

Mob Chart
D6 Result
1 If the unit is locked in combat, it passes the Morale check or Pinning test. If the unit is not locked in combat, it fails.
2-3 If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
4-6 If the unit has 10 or more models, it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. The hits are Randomly Allocated. If the unit has fewer than 10 models, it fails the Morale check or Pinning test.

Boss Pole gives Reroll on the mob chart.

Ork Tactical Objectives
Shoot an enemy unit off the board,
Kill the enemy warlord in a challenge with your warboss,
Destroy an enemy unit in your assault phase (more units gone, more points)
Turbo boost 3 vehicles (or bike units)
Secure a random objective (roll a D6),
Charge more than 10 inches.

A Big Mek with mega armour can take one of the following
- Tellyport blasta Tellyporta blasta is the back mouned thing I've been describing and seems... uh, situational at best? Very short range weapon but causes instant death on a 6 wound. Rolling a 6 on AP causes a penetrating hit regardless of AV.
- Kustom force field

- Shock attack gun roll of double 6 is vortex!!!
- KFF can be combined with mega armour and bikes, Shock attack gun seems to be combinable with bikes.
- Git finda on SAG

Relics:
Gifts of Gork and Mork
Da Dead Shiny Shoota 6 shots twinlinked shoota, rolls of 1 hit one of your own units
Da Finkin’ Kap gives your warlord an additional trait from the strategic list.
Da Fixer Upperz
Da Lucky Stikk
Headwoppa’s Killchoppa is a +2 str, AP5, rending choppa that beheads on a roll of 6 (insta death).
Warboss Gazbag’s Blitzbike has an AP3 deff gun on it

Orks kept furious charge, are susceptible to fear now

Tankbustas, are elite, got Tank Hunter, 2 points cheaper per model, and no longer have to shoot at nearest tank, Tankbusta bomb is now a melta bomb, can take a trukk, and get 2 VP for first blood if they blow up a tank, can take dedicated transport

Stormboyz can NOT assault flyers

Meganobz still bulky and use 2 spots in transport

Kommandos got move through cover, stealth and infiltrate, no point hike

Burnas can take dedicated trukks

Ork boys Slugga boy is 6, Shoota boy is 7. Both come with stikkbombs as standard.

Lootas Heavy Support and cheaper (5 points less per squad)

Deffkoptaz 30 Points base, gun swaps are free, still a jetbike.

Buggies 25 points base, gun swap is free, up to 5, can outflank, don't get new weapons, do get Grot Riggers at 10 points.

Zzap Gun 2D6, gets hot on a 1-3 if you roll 11 or 12

Kannons unchanged

Lobbas unchanged

Stompa in as super heavy

Battle Wagon up 20 points.

Kustom Mega Slugga is a thing.

Not anything about FNP at all

Grot riggers don't just work for IWND on 'nauts, any vehicle that has them, but cost per vehicle seems to differ. 20 to put them on a 'naut. BW don't seem to have the option.

Killkannon still lowers transport on BW

Attack squig nerfed to 1 reroll in melee per turn

Ramshackle got clobbered.. 6+ save when you take a pen, if successful downgrade to glance

Planks Rules a little complicated. If you get out of open topped and declare a charge, add 2 to the charge range

Deffrolla gains AP4 and loses half the hits

Kans come in 6 packs, NO twin guns, NO Troop choice option, have special morale rule

Ork Warband detachment you can Waaaagh every turn after the first

Cheap IWND on vehicles (5 points on Kans, 10 on dreds)

Warboss/Bigmek Mega Armor Kit is a thing

forgotten ghosts wrote:
when you say 6in on the kff it is true but you technically have a 12in bubble as 6in in all directions is still a decent sized space yes the kff doesnt auto cover the whole unit and only affects the vehicles the character is embarked in. yes its been nerfed but is actually much more realistic, and is now on par with the da force field thing, wonder if all of these options will get hit the same way.

Yeah, I'm so excited about the realism because we all know 40k is all about realism.

Also Orks kept furious charge, I know that was asked earlier but I didnt get around to answering it.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:
Footslogging 30 boy mobz with a KFF seems like a MUCH more sound option now

Why's that, because the KFF got nerfed to MODELS within 6 inches? How many individual boyz are you going to be able to fit within that KFF radius?

You also do realize that a 30 man squad has a leadership of 8, and if you fail that leadership test and roll a 1 that entire mob can run off the board on either a pinning or a morale check?

Do you also realize that shoota boyz now cost 7 points a model? That unit now costs 30 points more than it used to, and it is NOT fearless, and it does NOT get full coverage of the KFF. Only individual models within 6 inches do, and I'm not sure what percentage of a 30 man mob that would even be.

Forget the KFF, the skyshield is the way to go. with the new 6" coherency between elevation, you can have a few boys on the shield and the rest snaking their way across the board.

How many models in a unit have to be on the shield for the unit to be on the shield?
well 1 model in difficult terrain makes the whole unit roll to move through difficult terrain
1 model charging through terrain gives the -2" penalty to the unit.
1 model in your shooting unit can not fully see a model, then that model gets a cover save from your unit.

so 1 model on the shield is enough to qualify for the unit to get it's 4++

so it is possible for 75 points to give your 180+ boys a 4++

Or use the void shields as they also protect the unit, and again 1 model under it protects the unit and protects us from blast weapons.

Well... no, inv.sv does not spread to the rest of the squad.

 TedNugent wrote:

forgotten ghosts wrote:
when you say 6in on the kff it is true but you technically have a 12in bubble as 6in in all directions is still a decent sized space yes the kff doesnt auto cover the whole unit and only affects the vehicles the character is embarked in. yes its been nerfed but is actually much more realistic, and is now on par with the da force field thing, wonder if all of these options will get hit the same way.

Yeah, I'm so excited about the realism because we all know 40k is all about realism.

wouldnt it be alittle nicer if the designers took a more realistic view on some of there rule making?

Not sure it'd be good but you can fit 35 low armour vehicles into 1500 points (single FOC) now,

Mek

Boyz Squad (trukk)
Boyz squad (trukk)

5 x Buggies
5 x Buggies
5 x buggies

6 x Kans
6 x Kans
6 x kans

If you're still here Mel, could you say if the Ork-specific tactical objectives are in the codex and what they are? Or do you have to buy the cards in order to use them?

 Melcavuk wrote:

 doktor_g wrote:
Boyz = 5 and Shoota upgrade +1 I think. So priced the same at 6 per. That REEEEEALLLLY sucks about the KFF. Would rather just keep the cover save.

Slugga boy is 6, Shoota boy is 7. Both come with stikkbombs as standard.

It sucks, but the free stikkbombs make it sting less. Actually, looking at the old dex, the slugga boyz cost the same as in the new codex, so this only affects the shootaz and makes the sluggas a better deal due to the free stikkbombs. I usually take sluggas anyways, so this isn't as bad as the KFF nerf.

They are:
Shoot an enemy unit off the board,
Kill the enemy warlord in a challenge with your warboss,
Destroy an enemy unit in your assault phase (more units gone, more points)
Turbo boost 3 vehicles (or bike units)
Secure a random objective (roll a D6),
Charge more than 10 inches.

What are people so concerned about with single FOC? Are that many groups really limiting armies to one?

Too bad dedicated transports only "count as troops" but arent actually a troop choice. Would be very easy to field a double foc with boyz + trukks filling the troop slot requirement.

If your group is good with using forgeworld rules a decent 1500 bike list would be:

Zhadsnark (biker boss, makes bikes troops)

Mek on relic bike (KFF or SAG)

Painboy on Bike

15 x Bike

14 x Bike

14 x Bike

5 x Buggy

5 x Buggy

5 x buggy

Lots of speed, lots of bodies, hell of alot of fire.

yeah? cause you can abuse the gak out of unbound armies...

And unbound armies also ensue some pretty fething ludicrous tactics. I mentioned i would be fielding my orks unbound when the codex drops, first thing i hear is "OK i'll unbound this list then *insert op unit here spammed to oblivion* because unbound is unfair and unfair needs to be met with unfair"

I wanted to run an unbound walker list, because who the hell doesnt? lol. i DONT want to be forced to do that because nothing else is that viable. The 35 light vehicle strat is interesting but theres literally no armor answer there or big bug answer.

Also the rerollable warlord trait for a bound army is just too good. I have literally had to use it EVERY game since 7th (im up to 12 games)

Buggies can get twinlinked rokkits to glance down most things (free exchange), kans are packing klaws and shootas but again can get rokkits for free. Its just a hell of alot of vehicles really. 900 points is a massive Kan wall.

 jhnbrg wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:
Footslogging 30 boy mobz with a KFF seems like a MUCH more sound option now

Why's that, because the KFF got nerfed to MODELS within 6 inches? How many individual boyz are you going to be able to fit within that KFF radius?

You also do realize that a 30 man squad has a leadership of 8, and if you fail that leadership test and roll a 1 that entire mob can run off the board on either a pinning or a morale check?

Do you also realize that shoota boyz now cost 7 points a model? That unit now costs 30 points more than it used to, and it is NOT fearless, and it does NOT get full coverage of the KFF. Only individual models within 6 inches do, and I'm not sure what percentage of a 30 man mob that would even be.

Forget the KFF, the skyshield is the way to go. with the new 6" coherency between elevation, you can have a few boys on the shield and the rest snaking their way across the board.

How many models in a unit have to be on the shield for the unit to be on the shield?
well 1 model in difficult terrain makes the whole unit roll to move through difficult terrain
1 model charging through terrain gives the -2" penalty to the unit.
1 model in your shooting unit can not fully see a model, then that model gets a cover save from your unit.

so 1 model on the shield is enough to qualify for the unit to get it's 4++

so it is possible for 75 points to give your 180+ boys a 4++

Or use the void shields as they also protect the unit, and again 1 model under it protects the unit and protects us from blast weapons.

Well... no, inv.sv does not spread to the rest of the squad.

actually it does, units on top of a shield get a 4++.

If you had to have the entire unit on the shield to get the 4++, the would have said "units wholly on the shield" Like they explain under measuring distances.

So am I right in assuming we have been given a pay for option in the looted wagon, that can be used as a dedicated transport by absolutely nothing because it was an afterthought, further clogging up our heavy support choices?

Thanks for nothing GW!

 Melcavuk wrote:
They are:
Shoot an enemy unit off the board,
Kill the enemy warlord in a challenge with your warboss,
Destroy an enemy unit in your assault phase (more units gone, more points)
Turbo boost 3 vehicles (or bike units)
Secure a random objective (roll a D6),
Charge more than 10 inches.

Thank you. Hmmm disappointing... Some of those don't seem particularly orky, secure random objective being the biggest copout.

Thanks again for answering all our doubts, Melcavuc, you're the Warboss!!! Kunnin and Brutal or Brutal and Kunning, but still da Boss.

I have more questions:

If Kans are 25% more expensive, what is their base points cost? Do they keep the same weapons (Rokkit, Bigshoota, Skorcha, Grotzooka, KMB)? What is the cost of those upgrades?

What is the cost of Snikrot? Stats? If he joins a Kommando unit, he does not consume an Elite slot, right?

Is Zagstrukk forced to join Stormboys squads or can he join into any unit?

If the BW is 20 points more expensive, what are the cost points for its upgrades (BigShootas, Rokkits, Big Gunz, 'Ard Case, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Grabbing Klaw, Wrecking Ball, Boarding Plank, Kill Kannon)?

Can Deffkoptas still pay for Buzzsaws and Bombs?

Are Stormboys 9 points per figure?

What is cost for the SAG upgrade on Big Meks and Meks?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
And unbound armies also ensue some pretty fething ludicrous tactics. I mentioned i would be fielding my orks unbound when the codex drops, first thing i hear is "OK i'll unbound this list then *insert op unit here spammed to oblivion* because unbound is unfair and unfair needs to be met with unfair"

I wanted to run an unbound walker list, because who the hell doesnt? lol. i DONT want to be forced to do that because nothing else is that viable. The 35 light vehicle strat is interesting but theres literally no armor answer there or big bug answer.

Also the rerollable warlord trait for a bound army is just too good. I have literally had to use it EVERY game since 7th (im up to 12 games)

15 reroll able bs2 rock kits from buggies and however many bs3 from land doesn't count as anti bug and vehicle?

sirlynchmob wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:
Footslogging 30 boy mobz with a KFF seems like a MUCH more sound option now

Why's that, because the KFF got nerfed to MODELS within 6 inches? How many individual boyz are you going to be able to fit within that KFF radius?

You also do realize that a 30 man squad has a leadership of 8, and if you fail that leadership test and roll a 1 that entire mob can run off the board on either a pinning or a morale check?

Do you also realize that shoota boyz now cost 7 points a model? That unit now costs 30 points more than it used to, and it is NOT fearless, and it does NOT get full coverage of the KFF. Only individual models within 6 inches do, and I'm not sure what percentage of a 30 man mob that would even be.

Forget the KFF, the skyshield is the way to go. with the new 6" coherency between elevation, you can have a few boys on the shield and the rest snaking their way across the board.

How many models in a unit have to be on the shield for the unit to be on the shield?
well 1 model in difficult terrain makes the whole unit roll to move through difficult terrain
1 model charging through terrain gives the -2" penalty to the unit.
1 model in your shooting unit can not fully see a model, then that model gets a cover save from your unit.

so 1 model on the shield is enough to qualify for the unit to get it's 4++

so it is possible for 75 points to give your 180+ boys a 4++

Or use the void shields as they also protect the unit, and again 1 model under it protects the unit and protects us from blast weapons.

Well... no, inv.sv does not spread to the rest of the squad.

actually it does, units on top of a shield get a 4++.

If you had to have the entire unit on the shield to get the 4++, the would have said "units wholly on the shield" Like they explain under measuring distances.

You get people to agree with that? seems a bit cheesy.

So from what i have read they have taken the old over powered units that were auto include and toned them down.

They took the lesser used units or underpowered ones and beefed them up.

Now the units are balanced to themselves. Which more of the book viable. Tournament players won't like this since now not one unit stands out as OP over the rest and no clear choice for the auto include death star unit.

And the death roller was op, to think other wise I feel is silly. D6 str 10 hits on spammed battle wagons. No need to roll to hit just move through units.

Biker nobs, the KFF and the BW death roller spam needed the nerf bat. This is coming from an ork tourny player.

I saw the KFF nerf coming having effect the hole unit as long as one model was with in 6 was silly.

Mel, can you confirm for me that Mob Rule no longer modifies Leadership, and our Troops are on Ld 7?

Thanks dude.

BooBoo wrote:Thanks again for answering all our doubts, Melcavuc, you're the Warboss!!! Kunnin and Brutal or Brutal and Kunning, but still da Boss.

I have more questions:

If Kans are 25% more expensive, what is their base points cost? Do they keep the same weapons (Rokkit, Bigshoota, Skorcha, Grotzooka, KMB)? What is the cost of those upgrades?

What is the cost of Snikrot? Stats? If he joins a Kommando unit, he does not consume an Elite slot, right?

Is Zagstrukk forced to join Stormboys squads or can he join into any unit?

If the BW is 20 points more expensive, what are the cost points for its upgrades (BigShootas, Rokkits, Big Gunz, 'Ard Case, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Grabbing Klaw, Wrecking Ball, Boarding Plank, Kill Kannon)?

Can Deffkoptas still pay for Buzzsaws and Bombs?

Are Stormboys 9 points per figure?

What is cost for the SAG upgrade on Big Meks and Meks?

Right, Kans are 50 base, comes with big shoota, can switch free to rokkit, 5 points to switch to the other weapons. Same choices as before, riggers are 5 points
60 Points, not taking up a slot if you buy Kommandos, WS, S5, 4 attacks.
BW starts at 110 now but its only 30 points for the kill kannon, it can still be a dedi transport even if you fit kill kannon. the big gun upgrades are 10 points regardless of type, 5 points for shootas or rokkits. Cant see a rigger option
Yes
Yes
50. Big Meks only

streamdragon wrote:Mel, can you confirm for me that Mob Rule no longer modifies Leadership, and our Troops are on Ld 7?

Thanks dude.

7, Mob doesnt effect LD

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
So from what i have read they have taken the old over powered units that were auto include and toned them down.

They took the lesser used units or underpowered ones and beefed them up.

Now the units are balanced to themselves. Which more of the book viable. Tournament players won't like this since now not one unit stands out as OP over the rest and no clear choice for the auto include death star unit.

And the death roller was op, to think other wise I feel is silly. D6 str 10 hits on spammed battle wagons. No Ned to roll to him just move through units.

Biker nobs, the KFF and the BW death roller spam needed the nerf bat. This is coming from an ork tourny player.

I saw the KFF nerf coming having effect the hole unit as long as one model was with in 6 was silly.

i agree with all of that. if this if the trend for the future of 40k i think it will be more fun than ever, every one was trashin 7th, i have enjoyed the new missions.

My mistake, 10 points for riggers on Battlewagon, in my opinion worth it.

Is the new ork force org 3 HQs and 9 troops only ?
Or
3 hqs, 3 elites, 3 fast, 3 heavy and 9 troops ?

Thanks.

Sample Battlewagon build, not sure if this is "competitive" but first cost is new, second is old

Battlewagon
Killkannon
Kannon
4 x Big Shootas

170 vs 180

So in that 10 point different you can also take that build as a dedicated transport now, rather than it being heavy support. Also you use those 10 points and suddenly it has IWND


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Is the new ork force org 3 HQs and 9 troops only ?
Or
3 hqs, 3 elites, 3 fast, 3 heavy and 9 troops ?

Thanks.

3 hqs, 3 elites, 3 fast, 3 heavy and 9 troops

Of which HQ and 3 TROOP are compulsary.

Thank you very much Melcavuk.

Can Boss Nobs (in Nobs Mobs or Mega Nobs mobs) as well as the Kaptin Boss for the Flashgitz elect items from "Ranged weapons list, Melee weapons list, Runts&Squigs list, Orky Know Wot or Gits from Gork and Mork?

So you can take Grot Riggers on a Battlewagon?

Nope, infact the only Boss Nob who has access to anything beyond Melee weapon list is the Boyz Nob. he gets access to Ranged Weapon list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eldarain wrote:
So you can take Grot Riggers on a Battlewagon?

Yup, most vehicles have them listed as options in the unit entry, battlewagon says can make purchases from vehicle upgrade list, of which the riggers are part.

 jhnbrg wrote:


You get people to agree with that? seems a bit cheesy.

it's only cheesy if another army uses it against me but I don't see it any worse than those who play maledictions as stacking.

speaking of cheese and stacking, how are the waaagh banners worded?

They dont combine with the Lukky Stixx,

All models in a unit that includes a Waaagh! Banner add +1 to the Weapon Skill characteristic on their profile.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:
Footslogging 30 boy mobz with a KFF seems like a MUCH more sound option now

Why's that, because the KFF got nerfed to MODELS within 6 inches? How many individual boyz are you going to be able to fit within that KFF radius?

You also do realize that a 30 man squad has a leadership of 8, and if you fail that leadership test and roll a 1 that entire mob can run off the board on either a pinning or a morale check?

Do you also realize that shoota boyz now cost 7 points a model? That unit now costs 30 points more than it used to, and it is NOT fearless, and it does NOT get full coverage of the KFF. Only individual models within 6 inches do, and I'm not sure what percentage of a 30 man mob that would even be.

If you position the KFF Mek in the middle towards the front of the mob you can cover the front line of the mob which are the ones taking the wounds and as you take model loses let the advancing mob of boyz move past the mek so hes not stuck in the very front. Or you can just stick a painboy on the 30 boyz squad for that delicious FNP. Personally i think KFF are going to be better served in expensive units like gitz, nobz, burnas, tankbustas, bikers, etc while the typical foot slogging boyz would rather have the painboy. I expect to see biker KFF meks (with a few biker boyz for wound sponging) riding in between two battlewagons to be the new way to go. With a boss pole you can reroll that 1 so you basically need to get double 1s to run away.

For the kanz panic rule. Is it ignored if a gork/Morkanaught is near them ? Or does it have to be a deff dredd ?

I run lots of kans, dredds and I hope to in corporate a Morkanaught to look after them

Specifically a Dred, odd though

Grimgor Skullbusta wrote:

 Gitzbitah wrote:
That doesn't make any sense- I always thought Orks did the shark toof style, and grew many, many sets over their lifetime. They'd lose any metal teef when the next set grew in. That was one of the reasons they used teef for currency. Every Ork had some, and it was a reasonably valuable trophy.

5-6 Steel Teef. The Doc has removed the
patient’s teef and replaced them with
steel ones (some Docs get very rich, very
quickly). Though the warrior is now
immune to the ‘Gobsmacked’ serious
injury, he suffers -1 Leadership as his
steel choppers just aren’t properly Orky.

Presumably the ork would eventually grow a new set of teef, but not within the scope/timescale of a Gorkamorka mob career.

Thanks, that clears it up nicely! Although why I'm concerned about the dental habits of living space fungus, I'll never know.

I just got an idea to convert a runtherd deff dredd with a dredd size grot prod lol.

Looks like a Morkanaught, 6 kans and a deff dredd will be my heavy supports of choice =)

Thanks Melcavuk:

Unit size for Kommandos, Tankbustas, Nobz and MegaNobz?

Unit size for Grots? (10-30)?

Can Dreadnoughts still pay for extra DCCW for 15 pts up to four?

Do Painboys and Big Meks (HQs) have leadership 7 or leadership 8?

forgotten ghosts wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
So from what i have read they have taken the old over powered units that were auto include and toned them down.
.
They took the lesser used units or underpowered ones and beefed them up.

Now the units are balanced to themselves. Which more of the book viable. Tournament players won't like this since now not one unit stands out as OP over the rest and no clear choice for the auto include death star unit.

And the death roller was op, to think other wise I feel is silly. D6 str 10 hits on spammed battle wagons. No Ned to roll to him just move through units.

Biker nobs, the KFF and the BW death roller spam needed the nerf bat. This is coming from an ork tourny player.

I saw the KFF nerf coming having effect the hole unit as long as one model was with in 6 was silly.

i agree with all of that. if this if the trend for the future of 40k i think it will be more fun than ever, every one was trashin 7th, i have enjoyed the new missions.

How OP exactly were Biker Nobs? A biker nob list hasnt been that competitve since six edition hit. They nerfed a lot of peoples favorite unit for no reason. Just because it was one of the strongest units in the codex is a gakky reason to nerf them.

 Gitzbitah wrote:

Grimgor Skullbusta wrote:

 Gitzbitah wrote:
That doesn't make any sense- I always thought Orks did the shark toof style, and grew many, many sets over their lifetime. They'd lose any metal teef when the next set grew in. That was one of the reasons they used teef for currency. Every Ork had some, and it was a reasonably valuable trophy.

5-6 Steel Teef. The Doc has removed the
patient’s teef and replaced them with
steel ones (some Docs get very rich, very
quickly). Though the warrior is now
immune to the ‘Gobsmacked’ serious
injury, he suffers -1 Leadership as his
steel choppers just aren’t properly Orky.

Presumably the ork would eventually grow a new set of teef, but not within the scope/timescale of a Gorkamorka mob career.

Thanks, that clears it up nicely! Although why I'm concerned about the dental habits of living space fungus, I'll never know.

Everyone should be concerned about the dental habits of living space fungus.

TableTopJosh wrote:

forgotten ghosts wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
So from what i have read they have taken the old over powered units that were auto include and toned them down.
.
They took the lesser used units or underpowered ones and beefed them up.

Now the units are balanced to themselves. Which more of the book viable. Tournament players won't like this since now not one unit stands out as OP over the rest and no clear choice for the auto include death star unit.

And the death roller was op, to think other wise I feel is silly. D6 str 10 hits on spammed battle wagons. No Ned to roll to him just move through units.

Biker nobs, the KFF and the BW death roller spam needed the nerf bat. This is coming from an ork tourny player.

I saw the KFF nerf coming having effect the hole unit as long as one model was with in 6 was silly.

i agree with all of that. if this if the trend for the future of 40k i think it will be more fun than ever, every one was trashin 7th, i have enjoyed the new missions.

How OP exactly were Biker Nobs? A biker nob list hasnt been that competitve since six edition hit. They nerfed a lot of peoples favorite unit for no reason. Just because it was one of the strongest units in the codex is a gakky reason to nerf them.

It was obviously one of the strongest units, which is my point. Certain units stood out as stronger than the rest. Now until we actually get to play the dex, we can't say "x" unit is strong now, since they all seem viable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Biker nobs were an elite T5, W2, 4+cover, 5++ and 5+ fnp death star unit able to be taken as a troop choice. The nerf was coming. Oh and they move 12" and have twin liked S5 guns.

Just wondering Mel if you noticed any new models in the codex we have yet to see?

I recall there where strong rumours of a new Warboss with Squig.

BooBoo wrote:Thanks Melcavuk:

Unit size for Kommandos, Tankbustas, Nobz and MegaNobz?

Unit size for Grots? (10-30)?

Can Dreadnoughts still pay for extra DCCW for 15 pts up to four?

5-15, 5-15, 3-10, 3-10

10-30

Yes

TedNugent wrote:Do Painboys and Big Meks (HQs) have leadership 7 or leadership 8?

Painboy 7, Bike Mek 8





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 steve1 wrote:
Just wondering Mel if you noticed any new models in the codex we have yet to see?

I recall there where strong rumours of a new Warboss with Squig.

Other than the mega nobz and teleporta Mek nope sorry, the warboss shown on his page is this guy:
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ork-Warboss-with-Attack-Squig

Hell the Deff kopta picture is the old metal model

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:

forgotten ghosts wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
So from what i have read they have taken the old over powered units that were auto include and toned them down.
.
They took the lesser used units or underpowered ones and beefed them up.
Now the units are balanced to themselves. Which more of the book viable. Tournament players won't like this since now not one unit stands out as OP over the rest and no clear choice for the auto include death star unit.
And the death roller was op, to think other wise I feel is silly. D6 str 10 hits on spammed battle wagons. No Ned to roll to him just move through units.
Biker nobs, the KFF and the BW death roller spam needed the nerf bat. This is coming from an ork tourny player.
I saw the KFF nerf coming having effect the hole unit as long as one model was with in 6 was silly.

i agree with all of that. if this if the trend for the future of 40k i think it will be more fun than ever, every one was trashin 7th, i have enjoyed the new missions.

How OP exactly were Biker Nobs? A biker nob list hasnt been that competitve since six edition hit. They nerfed a lot of peoples favorite unit for no reason. Just because it was one of the strongest units in the codex is a gakky reason to nerf them.

It was obviously one of the strongest units, which is my point. Certain units stood out as stronger than the rest. Now until we actually get to play the dex, we can't say "x" unit is strong now, since they all seem viable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Biker nobs were an elite T5, W2, 4+cover, 5++ and 5+ fnp death star unit able to be taken as a troop choice. The nerf was coming. Oh and they move 12" and have twin liked S5 guns.

We need to talk.

The deff rolla was one of two viable options we had for dealing with AV14, along with a PK equipped warboss. Both of these required you get them to their intended target. As to using them on targets other than, everyone got armor saves. Those with poor armor saves had weight of numbers vs the single d6.
It was in no way whatsoever 'broken', it also cost a lot of points.

The codex was what, 6 years old, older? In that time, many other codices have been done, the 'power' has crept up considerably. So when you take our best and make it worse and worst and bring it to the downgraded 'best', you end up with a lower mean capability on a codex that was already totally outgunned. You end up with an antiquated beige army that can't match the more recent codices it will be facing.

It required no nerfing, no downgrading, it was already showing its age more than a bit. Readjusting balance in a book a couple of years old is one thing, taking something this old and upping point costs and reducing capabilities was ridiculous. We should have seen boosts, inclusion and capability, instead we saw a very old book slightly adjusted, overfilled in slots and generally made less effective.

With the removal of the ability to make certain units troops we've lost options, not gained them. We didn't need our units 'balanced to themselves', we needed our army balanced to the rest of the armies.

So my call a long time ago of the book getting a points reshuffling, stuff deleted, characters deleted, and overall making the book incredibly vanilla to pave the way for "extra toppings" DLC of content that used to be in the codex was correct?

The trend continues.

Cyba Ork bodies are gone completely?

 TheKbob wrote:
So my call a long time ago of the book getting a points reshuffling, stuff deleted, characters deleted, and overall making the book incredibly vanilla to pave the way for "extra toppings" DLC of content that used to be in the codex was correct?

The trend continues.

Cyba Ork bodies are gone completely?

Available on characters, now a 6+ FNP not invul

 TheKbob wrote:


Cyba Ork bodies are gone completely?

For all serious purposes, yes, cybork is gone. It got downgraded to a 6+ FNP. God knows who is going to be using this gak.

We have no invuln saves in CC.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:

forgotten ghosts wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
So from what i have read they have taken the old over powered units that were auto include and toned them down.
.
They took the lesser used units or underpowered ones and beefed them up.
Now the units are balanced to themselves. Which more of the book viable. Tournament players won't like this since now not one unit stands out as OP over the rest and no clear choice for the auto include death star unit.
And the death roller was op, to think other wise I feel is silly. D6 str 10 hits on spammed battle wagons. No Ned to roll to him just move through units.
Biker nobs, the KFF and the BW death roller spam needed the nerf bat. This is coming from an ork tourny player.
I saw the KFF nerf coming having effect the hole unit as long as one model was with in 6 was silly.

i agree with all of that. if this if the trend for the future of 40k i think it will be more fun than ever, every one was trashin 7th, i have enjoyed the new missions.

How OP exactly were Biker Nobs? A biker nob list hasnt been that competitve since six edition hit. They nerfed a lot of peoples favorite unit for no reason. Just because it was one of the strongest units in the codex is a gakky reason to nerf them.

It was obviously one of the strongest units, which is my point. Certain units stood out as stronger than the rest. Now until we actually get to play the dex, we can't say "x" unit is strong now, since they all seem viable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Biker nobs were an elite T5, W2, 4+cover, 5++ and 5+ fnp death star unit able to be taken as a troop choice. The nerf was coming. Oh and they move 12" and have twin liked S5 guns.

We need to talk.

The deff rolla was one of two viable options we had for dealing with AV14, along with a PK equipped warboss. Both of these required you get them to their intended target. As to using them on targets other than, everyone got armor saves. Those with poor armor saves had weight of numbers vs the single d6.
It was in no way whatsoever 'broken', it also cost a lot of points.

The codex was what, 6 years old, older? In that time, many other codices have been done, the 'power' has crept up considerably. So when you take our best and make it worse and worst and bring it to the downgraded 'best', you end up with a lower mean capability on a codex that was already totally outgunned. You end up with an antiquated beige army that can't match the more recent codices it will be facing.

It required no nerfing, no downgrading, it was already showing its age more than a bit. Readjusting balance in a book a couple of years old is one thing, taking something this old and upping point costs and reducing capabilities was ridiculous. We should have seen boosts, inclusion and capability, instead we saw a very old book slightly adjusted, overfilled in slots and generally made less effective.

With the removal of the ability to make certain units troops we've lost options, not gained them. We didn't need our units 'balanced to themselves', we needed our army balanced to the rest of the armies.

Don't worry, GW has thought ahead about this problem! You will have access once again to nob troops and deff dread/kan troops as soon as they decide how much to charge you for the dataslate.

Is there any confirmation on what a Waagh! does? Im hearing run and assault in the same turn.

Melcavuk wrote:
Available on characters, now a 6+ FNP not invul

TedNugent wrote:

For all serious purposes, yes, cybork is gone. It got downgraded to a 6+ FNP. God knows who is going to be using this gak.

We have no invuln saves in CC.

7th edition is focused on controlling objectives.

I was planning to change my biker deathstar into an small & cheap unit of nobz bikers (with painboy for + survivability), that will turboboost here and there all over the board to collect VP each turn for me.
Now the new codex gives me +3 cover /4+ armour/5+ FNP ? Suits me very well.
Same for the stormboyz. 2D6 run ? they can reach an objective like nobody now.

The changes on bikers and even stormboys look like nerf, but maybe that because we still want to play them like we did in previous editions.

I am pretty sure we will discover plenty of new tactics with our new codex - so don't sell your army yet... ;p

 Melcavuk wrote:
My mistake, 10 points for riggers on Battlewagon, in my opinion worth it.

Oh hell yea. Grot riggers on anything that isnt a Buggy is damn worth it (be surprised if a buggy survived an attack anyway since its AV10 2hp)

Stormboyz are no faster than before. Before they were 12 + D6" in the movement, and could run normally. Now theyre 12" move and 2D6" run with the entire unit taking a Dangerous Terrain test in the process....which is a HUGE nerf as that will remove far more boyz than the old rules ever did.
I will probably still find a use for them, since i love the models and 12" powerklaw is nothing to sneeze at. Just gotta be weary howi move them.

Melcavuk you are a god!! Thank you so much for putting in the time to chat with us.

I have 2 questions.

1. Could you detail the formation in the book?

2. Are nobz and meganobz different unit entries?

These damn Meks and the new Painboys are monopose and they don't have a Kustom Forcefield on the sprue.

50 points base for a Killa Kan with big shoota. That seems like a large price hike when before it was 35 points base with +5 for a big shoota. Other than the vehicle moral tomfoolery did anything else about the kanz change?

The normal (small) mek ^ cant take the big meks wargear, so why would he have a kff

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:

forgotten ghosts wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
So from what i have read they have taken the old over powered units that were auto include and toned them down.
.
They took the lesser used units or underpowered ones and beefed them up.
Now the units are balanced to themselves. Which more of the book viable. Tournament players won't like this since now not one unit stands out as OP over the rest and no clear choice for the auto include death star unit.
And the death roller was op, to think other wise I feel is silly. D6 str 10 hits on spammed battle wagons. No Ned to roll to him just move through units.
Biker nobs, the KFF and the BW death roller spam needed the nerf bat. This is coming from an ork tourny player.
I saw the KFF nerf coming having effect the hole unit as long as one model was with in 6 was silly.

i agree with all of that. if this if the trend for the future of 40k i think it will be more fun than ever, every one was trashin 7th, i have enjoyed the new missions.

How OP exactly were Biker Nobs? A biker nob list hasnt been that competitve since six edition hit. They nerfed a lot of peoples favorite unit for no reason. Just because it was one of the strongest units in the codex is a gakky reason to nerf them.

It was obviously one of the strongest units, which is my point. Certain units stood out as stronger than the rest. Now until we actually get to play the dex, we can't say "x" unit is strong now, since they all seem viable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Biker nobs were an elite T5, W2, 4+cover, 5++ and 5+ fnp death star unit able to be taken as a troop choice. The nerf was coming. Oh and they move 12" and have twin liked S5 guns.

We need to talk.

The deff rolla was one of two viable options we had for dealing with AV14, along with a PK equipped warboss. Both of these required you get them to their intended target. As to using them on targets other than, everyone got armor saves. Those with poor armor saves had weight of numbers vs the single d6.
It was in no way whatsoever 'broken', it also cost a lot of points.

The codex was what, 6 years old, older? In that time, many other codices have been done, the 'power' has crept up considerably. So when you take our best and make it worse and worst and bring it to the downgraded 'best', you end up with a lower mean capability on a codex that was already totally outgunned. You end up with an antiquated beige army that can't match the more recent codices it will be facing.

It required no nerfing, no downgrading, it was already showing its age more than a bit. Readjusting balance in a book a couple of years old is one thing, taking something this old and upping point costs and reducing capabilities was ridiculous. We should have seen boosts, inclusion and capability, instead we saw a very old book slightly adjusted, overfilled in slots and generally made less effective.

With the removal of the ability to make certain units troops we've lost options, not gained them. We didn't need our units 'balanced to themselves', we needed our army balanced to the rest of the armies.

Armor 14 is not that common we don't need a lot of ways to deal with Iit, and at least not spamable ways. I thinks orks ran more armor 14 than any one else with BW spam.

 deffrekka wrote:
The normal (small) mek ^ cant take the big meks wargear, so why would he have a kff

Well they don't sell the big mek with KFF any more.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Melcavuk wrote:
My mistake, 10 points for riggers on Battlewagon, in my opinion worth it.

Oh hell yea. Grot riggers on anything that isnt a Buggy is damn worth it (be surprised if a buggy survived an attack anyway since its AV10 2hp)

Stormboyz are no faster than before. Before they were 12 + D6" in the movement, and could run normally. Now theyre 12" move and 2D6" run with the entire unit taking a Dangerous Terrain test in the process....which is a HUGE nerf as that will remove far more boyz than the old rules ever did.
I will probably still find a use for them, since i love the models and 12" powerklaw is nothing to sneeze at. Just gotta be weary howi move them.

I wouldn't say so. They are definatley garbage for kans. kans went up 10 ponts each even with the free weapons, unless you used the grotzooka, then its only 5 more now. But they are still only 2 HP, and now have a chance to run. 60 extra points for a unit who might get to roll that twice dosent seem like a good use for it. The dredd behind them maybe, sure on battlewagons and stompas and whatnot. But kans probably took the biggest hit.

All Slugga Boys come with Stikkbombs?

Just so people don't think I am complaining because I want better orks (I do, but it's not why I'm complaining):

What I liked about the 3rd edition Stikkbomb boys (and the OPTION of taking Stikkbombs for Boys in our 4th edition codex) was that Orks had trouble remembering which end of the stikkbomb to throw, and only elite orks could remember this important, highly technical fact in the heat of combat.

Now you just give them to all the lads. Sigh. It's a loss of orky character and flavor in the book, for no additional gain. You could have made Slugga Boys 1 point cheaper, and let them take Stikkbombs for 1 point each. So easy.

I don't get the weird change to Stormboys either. 2d6 run with a dangerous terrain test? Who would do that? On average, you are adding 1" of movement for a 1 in 6 chance of killing each model. That sounds like a HORRIBLE deal. I like orky randomness, but they are orks, not morons. I can see a few landing on their heads, but this just seems DUMB. It's added randomness for no real benefit or character.

johnleebassist wrote:Melcavuk you are a god!! Thank you so much for putting in the time to chat with us.

I have 2 questions.

1. Could you detail the formation in the book?

2. Are nobz and meganobz different unit entries?

1 Warboss
1 Mek
1 unit of Nobz or Meganobz
6 units of Boyz
1 unit of Gretchin
Can Waaagh every turn after the first, reroll warlord traits, if a mob rolls 10 or higher on the charge they get hammer of wrath

And yes, 2 different entries

Vankraken wrote:50 points base for a Killa Kan with big shoota. That seems like a large price hike when before it was 35 points base with +5 for a big shoota. Other than the vehicle moral tomfoolery did anything else about the kanz change?

Weapons got cheaper. KMB is now 5 points, same with zooka and skorcha,

That new mek is too small for a big mek anyway, make your own, take it from the morkanaut or wait and see if the big Mek in mega armour has it on his sprue

The idea that anything in the old codex was OP is laughable. Biker nobs were very tough and could deal out terrific damage but they cost a lot too. Any opponent with any sense concentrated his shooting on them and frequently managed to drop them before they got stuck in. I loved my deff rollas but they often failed to do anything much. Too ,many armour and cover saves for any infantry they targetted. And the wagons usually had to expose their weaker side armour to make use of them.

Oh and before I forget, we know planks give a buff to disembarking and charging but do they still allow for assaulting a nearby vehicle without getting out of the ride?

I don't like it.

roll...on the mob chart....
I can take nerfs
I'll deal with OP units
but for the love of God no more flippin random tables !

so now you roll leadership, fail, roll on mob chart, reroll with boss pole, roll how many hits can roll to wound, armor saves... was this really need necessary...it already takes ten minutes to roll ppsychic powers. this is the worst thing

 Melcavuk wrote:

johnleebassist wrote:Melcavuk you are a god!! Thank you so much for putting in the time to chat with us.

I have 2 questions.

1. Could you detail the formation in the book?

2. Are nobz and meganobz different unit entries?

1 Warboss
1 Mek
1 unit of Nobz or Meganobz
6 units of Boyz
1 unit of Gretchin
Can Waaagh every turn after the first, reroll warlord traits, if a mob rolls 10 or higher on the charge they get hammer of wrath

And yes, 2 different entries

Vankraken wrote:50 points base for a Killa Kan with big shoota. That seems like a large price hike when before it was 35 points base with +5 for a big shoota. Other than the vehicle moral tomfoolery did anything else about the kanz change?

Weapons got cheaper. KMB is now 5 points, same with zooka and skorcha,

So does the whole Waaaagh thing REPLACE objective secured? So presumably all new codexes will come out with these little FOC bonuses?

The formation doesnt list objective secured as a rule, nor does the Ork detachment. It seems to be a feature of the combined arms detachment in the corebook and these rules are instead of it.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

The deff rolla was one of two viable options we had for dealing with AV14, along with a PK equipped warboss. Both of these required you get them to their intended target. As to using them on targets other than, everyone got armor saves. Those with poor armor saves had weight of numbers vs the single d6.
It was in no way whatsoever 'broken', it also cost a lot of points.

The codex was what, 6 years old, older? In that time, many other codices have been done, the 'power' has crept up considerably. So when you take our best and make it worse and worst and bring it to the downgraded 'best', you end up with a lower mean capability on a codex that was already totally outgunned. You end up with an antiquated beige army that can't match the more recent codices it will be facing.

It required no nerfing, no downgrading, it was already showing its age more than a bit. Readjusting balance in a book a couple of years old is one thing, taking something this old and upping point costs and reducing capabilities was ridiculous. We should have seen boosts, inclusion and capability, instead we saw a very old book slightly adjusted, overfilled in slots and generally made less effective.

With the removal of the ability to make certain units troops we've lost options, not gained them. We didn't need our units 'balanced to themselves', we needed our army balanced to the rest of the armies.

THIS is exactly how I feel about everything I've seen so far. You could not have put it better. Thank you for expressing my thoughts so precisely.

Exalted

so what are the new mek gunz doing? the one is supposed to be lifta droppa, the anti air sounds like similar randomness, kmc is sr8? bubble chukka?

 Melcavuk wrote:
1 Warboss
1 Mek
1 unit of Nobz or Meganobz
6 units of Boyz
1 unit of Gretchin
Can Waaagh every turn after the first, reroll warlord traits, if a mob rolls 10 or higher on the charge they get hammer of wrath

Hmm...I can see that formation being popular. Works very well for a trukk heavy or mixed army.

Nobz are slightly cheaper and bikes are more expensive - are any of the nob weapon options or other equipment cheaper than before?

XC18 wrote:
7th edition is focused on controlling objectives.

I was planning to change my biker deathstar into an small & cheap unit of nobz bikers (with painboy for + survivability), that will turboboost here and there all over the board to collect VP each turn for me.
Now the new codex gives me +3 cover /4+ armour/5+ FNP ? Suits me very well.
Same for the stormboyz. 2D6 run ? they can reach an objective like nobody now.

The changes on bikers and even stormboys look like nerf, but maybe that because we still want to play them like we did in previous editions.

I am pretty sure we will discover plenty of new tactics with our new codex - so don't sell your army yet... ;p

Nobz are elite still correct? Are they allowed to score as elite in 7th? I've not gotten the book yet.

Thanks again Melcavuk.

A couple of extra questions.

Trukks are 30 pts base, right? They come with Big shoota and have a free Rokkit swap. Which upgrades can they get and for how many points? Reinforced Ram, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Boarding Plank and Wrecking Ball?

Which is the cost for Kombi Weapons? 5 pts for Kombi/Skorcha and/or Kombi/Rokkit?

Are rokkits on Boys Mob cheaper? +5 pts right?

Can Tankbustas purchase an extra Nob who can pay for a PK/BC, Bosspole?

decker_cky wrote:

 Melcavuk wrote:
1 Warboss
1 Mek
1 unit of Nobz or Meganobz
6 units of Boyz
1 unit of Gretchin
Can Waaagh every turn after the first, reroll warlord traits, if a mob rolls 10 or higher on the charge they get hammer of wrath

Hmm...I can see that formation being popular. Works very well for a trukk heavy or mixed army.

Nobz are slightly cheaper and bikes are more expensive - are any of the nob weapon options or other equipment cheaper than before?

Eavy armour dropped by a point (to 4) but thats it

BooBoo wrote:Thanks again Melcavuk.

A couple of extra questions.

Trukks are 30 pts base, right? They come with Big shoota and have a free Rokkit swap. Which upgrades can they get and for how many points? Reinforced Ram, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Boarding Plank and Wrecking Ball?

Which is the cost for Kombi Weapons? 5 pts for Kombi/Skorcha and/or Kombi/Rokkit?

Are rokkits on Boys Mob cheaper? +5 pts right?

Can Tankbustas purchase an extra Nob who can pay for a PK/BC, Bosspole?

Righty...
Yes 30 base, yes rokkit is a free switch. Access to vehicle chart: Red point job, reinforced ram, grot riggers, boarding plank, wrekkin ball, stickbomb chukka, extra arma. Ball riggers and armour are 10, plank is 15, everything else is 5
Kombi skorcha is 10, rokkit is 5
Rokkit is boyz mob is 5 points
Yes they can have a boss nob, yes he can have a klaw and boss pole

Am I right in that everything is scores in this codex/edition and troops slots have objective secure?

Can every unit take Battle Wagons as dedicated transports?

so what are the new mek gunz doing? the one is supposed to be lifta droppa, the anti air sounds like similar randomness, kmc is sr8? bubble chukka?

You can purchase the older Big Gunz (Kannon, Lobba, Zzap) for 18 pts per Gun, they come with two grots, may purchase extra grots and an ammo runt.
The new Mek Gunz are as follows (30 pts each):
All have 36" Range.
Bubble Chucka: SP/AP D6. Heavy 1, Large Blast. (you roll once for S and AP).
Smasha Gun: SP D6+ 4, AP 1, Heavy 1.
Traktor Kannon: S8 AP3 Heavy 1, Skyfire, Traktor (auto immobilizes regardless of other effects and FMC have to test Ground Tests at -3 if they suffer any wounds)
Kustom Mega Kannon: S8 AP3 Heavy 1, Blast, Gets Hot.

so
smasha gun s5-10ap1 averages s7
bubble chucka roll at beginning of the game for s and ap
traktor cannon str8 if hits auto immobilize flyers (-1hull point?)
that sum it up
do they come with 2 grots upgrade to 6?

So how are people feeling about nobz? 22 pts with 'eavy armour makes for pretty decent value, and they hit hard with a waaaagh banner and various weapons (not with improved big choppas).

Do smasha gunz and bubble chukkas roll strength per gun or once for whole unit please?

Isn't it 21pts as eavy armour is 4pts


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Never mind, thought nobs were 17pts now

forgotten ghosts wrote:
so
smasha gun s5-10ap1 averages s7
bubble chucka roll at beginning of the game for s and ap
traktor cannon str8 if hits auto immobilize flyers (-1hull point?)
that sum it up
do they come with 2 grots upgrade to 6?

no, bubblechucka rolls once each turn, and ONLY after you have declared targets, making it a bit worse then your description.

 Orock wrote:

forgotten ghosts wrote:
so
smasha gun s5-10ap1 averages s7
bubble chucka roll at beginning of the game for s and ap
traktor cannon str8 if hits auto immobilize flyers (-1hull point?)
that sum it up
do they come with 2 grots upgrade to 6?

no, bubblechucka rolls once each turn, and ONLY after you have declared targets, making it a bit worse then your description.

thats what i assumed the wording of roll once made me question though, does that mean once per unit then or per gun?

Does anybody know if the Big Choppa got changed? I always really felt like we needed some more options for CC weapons, and not just "nothing or a Klaw".

+2 s ap5

 TedNugent wrote:
These damn Meks and the new Painboys are monopose and they don't have a Kustom Forcefield on the sprue.

Spoiler:

Ta for the sprue pics, hadn't seen them before.

Yes, mono-pose is disappointing, although at least head/arm swaps are easy. And bulking up that mek backpack into a KFF wouldn't be hard.

My biggest complaint is the high price, given they're one tiny sprue with no alternate parts (not even a choice of heads) other than one mek arm swap.

 adamsouza wrote:
bunch of stuff already covered so we can keep the repeat questions down.

HQs listed as
Zagstruk
Grotsnik
Mek is a slotless HQ, 1 per actual HQ bought
Big Mek does not change FoC
Painboy
Warboss does not change FoC
Weirdboy.
Badrukk is a HQ (3+, 5++, str 7 AP2 assault 3 gun) , Badrukk has the rules listed for Da Rippa, but it is not listed in his wargear
Snikrot is not HQ, Snikkrot an elite (doesnt take a slot if taken with Kommandos) (shrouded on arrival, you pick an edge to outflank dont roll)
No Wazdakka
No Zogwort.
Ghaz is a LOW now, can take runts/squigs, stats look unchaged

D6 Warlord Trait
1 Prophet of the Waaagh!: Mork (or possibly Gork) has chosen this Warlord for greatness, and every Ork under his command knows it.
The Warlord gains the Waaagh! special rule. If the Warlord already has the Waaagh! special rule then, in addition to the usual effects, all friendly models with the ’Ere We Go! special rule gain the Fearless special rule when he calls a Waaagh!, until the start of their next turn.
2 Bellowing Tyrant: This Warlord is an unholy terror, a roaring lunatic whose every (very loud) word is law.
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, re-roll failed Morale checks and Pinning tests.
3 Like a Thunderbolt!: This Warlord is a master of the all-out, no-holds-barred, headlong charge into battle.
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, can re-roll all the dice when determining Run moves or charge range.
4 Brutal but Kunnin’: This Warlord has a sneaky streak a mile wide and knows just where to hit his foes.
The Warlord can re-roll one failed To Hit or To Wound roll each turn.
5 Kunnin’ but Brutal: The Warlord knows when to roll with a punch, and can shrug off the hardest blows.
The Warlord can re-roll one failed armour or invulnerable saving throw each turn.
6 Might is Right: Made of muscle and aggression, this Warlord is the embodiment of the Orks’ warlike nature.
The Warlord receives +1 to the Strength characteristic on his profile.

Buggys don't get new weapons, do get Grot Riggers at 10 points.
Not seen anything about FNP at all yet.
Grot riggers don't just work for IWND on 'nauts, any vehicle that has them, but cost per vehicle seems to differ. 20 to put them on a 'naut. BW don't seem to have the option.
Looks to be a lot more options with selecting wargear for meks
"A Big Mek may take items from the Mek Weapons, Melee Weapons, Runts & Squigs, Orky Know-wots and/or Gifts of Gork and Mork lists."
Mob rule is replaced by the D6 roll, yes.

Kustom Mega Slugga is a thing.
A Big Mek with mega armour can take one of the following
- Tellyport blasta Tellyporta blasta is the back mouned thing I've been describing and seems... uh, situational at best? Very short range weapon but causes instant death on a 6 wound. Rolling a 6 on AP causes a penetrating hit regardless of AV.
- Kustom force field
- Shock attack gun roll of double 6 is vortex!!!
- KFF can be combined with mega armour and bikes, Shock attack gun seems to be combinable with bikes.
- Git finda on SAG mek?



Relics:
Gifts of Gork and Mork
Da Dead Shiny Shoota 6 shots twinlinked shoota, rolls of 1 hit one of your own units
Da Finkin’ Kap gives your warlord an additional trait from the strategic list.
Da Fixer Upperz
Da Lucky Stikk
Headwoppa’s Killchoppa is a +2 str, AP5, rending choppa that beheads on a roll of 6 (insta death).
Warboss Gazbag’s Blitzbike has an AP3 deff gun on it

Mob Chart
D6 Result
1 If the unit is locked in combat, it passes the Morale check or Pinning test. If the unit is not locked in combat, it fails.
2-3 If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
4-6 If the unit has 10 or more models, it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. The hits are Randomly Allocated. If the unit has fewer than 10 models, it fails the Morale check or Pinning test.

Boss Pole gives Reroll on the mob chart.

Stompa in as super heavy

Battle Wagon up 20 points.

Killkannon still lowers transport on BW

Attack squig nerfed to 1 reroll in melee per turn

Tankbustas can shoot at whatever they like, and Bustas and Burnas can take dedicated trukks

Kommandos get Stealth, no point hike

Ramshackle got clobbered.. 6+ save when you take a pen, if successful downgrade to glance

Buggies in units of 5, gained outflank and a minor point decrease.

Rule for planks is a little complicated. If you get out of open topped and declare a charge, add 2 to the charge range

Deffrolla gains AP4 and loses half the hits

Lootas Heavy Support and cheaper (5 points less per squad)

Kans come in 6 packs, NO twin guns, NO Troop choice option, have special morale rule

If you take an Ork Warband detachment, you can Waaaagh every turn after the first

Weirdboys gain a Warp Charge point if there are 10 or more models with the 'ere we go rule (Pretty much any Ork from what I've seen) in 12" but has to take a psychic save or take a hit.
Power of the Waaagh! and Daemonlogy disciplines.
Can be upgraded to Psyker level 2.
Ork psychic powers are all cool. Either high strength, or teleport, large blast etc.
Primaris power is Frazzle (Blast witchfire).
'Eadbanger is now a focussed witchfire.
Warpath is a self blessing
Da jump is what used to be 'ere we go.
Killbolt is a beam attack.
Power vomit is a template witchfire.
Da Krunch is a barrage witchfire.

Cheap IWND on vehicles (5 points on Kans, 10 on dreds)

Painboy is IC, so put him where you need him, can take a bike.

Dedi transports available for burnas and tank bustas now

Warboss/Bigmek Mega Armor Kit is a thing

Ork boys cost 1 less point, but Shoota is 1 pt ugrade now

The HQ Mek (not Big Mek) has Boy statline

Pain Boys can not get 'Eavy Amor?

Zzap gun 2D6, gets hot on a 1-3 if you roll 11 or 12

Kannons and Lobbas unchanged

mek gunz seem to be worth adding into this on the plus side
figured i would move this up to keep it easy to find what has been covered

I'm personally very underwhelmed by the new painboy and the new mek. The mek seems very uninspired, and the painboy is just a pretty terrible sculpt. I'm pretty sure I could kitbash something MUCH more to my liking for both.

Also, the Eavy Metal team has really been pulling back on the quality of their paint jobs. Both are almost as bad as what I do.

XD

 Melcavuk wrote:

Eavy armour dropped by a point (to 4) but thats it

Eavy armor was already 4 points for Boyz, did it drop a point for nobz and bosses?

 streamdragon wrote:

 Melcavuk wrote:

Eavy armour dropped by a point (to 4) but thats it

Eavy armor was already 4 points for Boyz, did it drop a point for nobz and bosses?

He was answering a question for Nob units, so it at least dropped for them.

I still feel the new codex will be alright. I'll either just run the special formation or a different horde based force. Pre-ordered my warboss edition!

 matphat wrote:
I'm personally very underwhelmed by the new painboy and the new mek. The mek seems very uninspired, and the painboy is just a pretty terrible sculpt. I'm pretty sure I could kitbash something MUCH more to my liking for both.

Also, the Eavy Metal team has really been pulling back on the quality of their paint jobs. Both are almost as bad as what I do.

XD

What were you looking for on the mek boy? They are what they are.

I can see people not liking the Painboy. I like him, but I can see others no enjoying him.

GW paint jobs have never been the best out there, but they are consistent and clean. I think what I dislike about them is that they are almost "plastic" like too far down the clean line. Look at the AM ogryn models for a good example of the plastic look.

I love forge world paint jobs with lots of weathering, but I can see where many people who aren't familiar with the game would see that as a "bad" paint job and not appreciate the talent required to get those looks.

I don't mind the painboy, except for the grot on his back. However, it's defiantly not a model you would want duplicates of in a single army.

Does anyone have experience with model production? How much cheaper is it for them to make the monopose plastic characters rather than allow for pose-ability and a bit of variety right out of the box?

BooBoo wrote:

so what are the new mek gunz doing? the one is supposed to be lifta droppa, the anti air sounds like similar randomness, kmc is sr8? bubble chukka?

You can purchase the older Big Gunz (Kannon, Lobba, Zzap) for 18 pts per Gun, they come with two grots, may purchase extra grots and an ammo runt.
The new Mek Gunz are as follows (30 pts each):
All have 36" Range.
Bubble Chucka: SP/AP D6. Heavy 1, Large Blast. (you roll once for S and AP).
Smasha Gun: SP D6+ 4, AP 1, Heavy 1.
Traktor Kannon: S8 AP3 Heavy 1, Skyfire, Traktor (auto immobilizes regardless of other effects and FMC have to test Ground Tests at -3 if they suffer any wounds)
Kustom Mega Kannon: S8 AP3 Heavy 1, Blast, Gets Hot.

hmm, kinda think i'd just roll with lootas over those new kannons. Bubble Chucka is way too random for me, and do you just roll 1 d6 for it's strength too, if so uggg? The KMK is kinda nice when it comes to killing marines but i think the lootas would be quite a bit more versatile. That leaves the smasha gun and it's primary advantage over lootas is the chance to get 8,9, or 10 strength with ap1 so clearly better against armor 13/14 and exploding vehicles if you can manage to roll high. The Traktor Kannon, obviously better than lootas against some of the higher armor flyers / MC's

The problem is, unless you're building a list to counter your buddies and you know he's bringing 2 land raiders or 3 beefy flyers, they're just too specialized. The lootas to me just feel better against everything each specific mek gun doesn't specifically "hard counter".

And maybe I'm crazy but I feel like the Traktor Kannon is just as good as the KMK, but also shoots air better. Okay you give up small blast for skyfire, traktor, and not having Gets Hot!

I actually feel like these could be like the old Kannon and have like two types of shells to make them more versatile depending on what you need.

What do you guys think? Are they better than I'm giving them credit?

 Toburk wrote:
I don't mind the painboy, except for the grot on his back. However, it's defiantly not a model you would want duplicates of in a single army.

Does anyone have experience with model production? How much cheaper is it for them to make the monopose plastic characters rather than allow for pose-ability and a bit of variety right out of the box?

I agree about multiples.

I don't think it is any different really. You can see the arms are posable still on the mek, and interchangeable.

I think it is a choice based on wanting to have a more complicated and detailed torso component than anything else.

 PhillyT wrote:

 Toburk wrote:
I don't mind the painboy, except for the grot on his back. However, it's defiantly not a model you would want duplicates of in a single army.

Does anyone have experience with model production? How much cheaper is it for them to make the monopose plastic characters rather than allow for pose-ability and a bit of variety right out of the box?

I agree about multiples.

I don't think it is any different really. You can see the arms are posable still on the mek, and interchangeable.

I think it is a choice based on wanting to have a more complicated and detailed torso component than anything else.

Grotsnik and the Painboy with grot orderly are still available, so multiples problem solved.

I agree with PhillyT on the model production, it's probably more about the torso detail than poseability, but IMO with technology these days the new painboy should be like the mek, with a swappable head and arms instead of being monopose. At least with the SAG mek and the Mekboy you can pose them somewhat, or use them in a conversion.

Kromlech also makes a nice Doc model.

One question please.

Deffcoptas are now 30 flat and can change weapons for free. Do they still get a TL rokkit launcha? What about other upgrades? My flyin boars skwadron needs to know his rules of engagement...

 Deunstephe wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:

 Toburk wrote:
I don't mind the painboy, except for the grot on his back. However, it's defiantly not a model you would want duplicates of in a single army.

Does anyone have experience with model production? How much cheaper is it for them to make the monopose plastic characters rather than allow for pose-ability and a bit of variety right out of the box?

I agree about multiples.

I don't think it is any different really. You can see the arms are posable still on the mek, and interchangeable.

I think it is a choice based on wanting to have a more complicated and detailed torso component than anything else.

Grotsnik and the Painboy with grot orderly are still available, so multiples problem solved.

I agree with PhillyT on the model production, it's probably more about the torso detail than poseability, but IMO with technology these days the new painboy should be like the mek, with a swappable head and arms instead of being monopose. At least with the SAG mek and the Mekboy you can pose them somewhat, or use them in a conversion.

Agree with that too. The Dok looks too original, almost like an independent character. I like it, but it does not fit as well as the previous model or Mad Dok. The pose and the lack of extra bits do not help either.
The Mek on the other side fits very well and seems to be based on the same type of arms and head as most Orks. So easy to make a few of them, looking not exactly the same.

One question please.
Deffcoptas are now 30 flat and can change weapons for free. Do they still get a TL rokkit launcha? What about other upgrades? My flyin boars skwadron needs to know his rules of engagement...

According to Melcavuk, they retain all their mix from the previous Codex. So yes, the weapon swap is free and it is a Twin Rokkit, the Kopta keeps its two wounds, its 4+ save, its jetbike status, profile, and may purchase Buzzsaws and those Bombs whose name I can't remember right now. Don't know if they mantain its unit size (1-5) and if they keep Hit and Run and Scout.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:

forgotten ghosts wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
So from what i have read they have taken the old over powered units that were auto include and toned them down.
.
They took the lesser used units or underpowered ones and beefed them up.
Now the units are balanced to themselves. Which more of the book viable. Tournament players won't like this since now not one unit stands out as OP over the rest and no clear choice for the auto include death star unit.
And the death roller was op, to think other wise I feel is silly. D6 str 10 hits on spammed battle wagons. No Ned to roll to him just move through units.
Biker nobs, the KFF and the BW death roller spam needed the nerf bat. This is coming from an ork tourny player.
I saw the KFF nerf coming having effect the hole unit as long as one model was with in 6 was silly.

i agree with all of that. if this if the trend for the future of 40k i think it will be more fun than ever, every one was trashin 7th, i have enjoyed the new missions.

How OP exactly were Biker Nobs? A biker nob list hasnt been that competitve since six edition hit. They nerfed a lot of peoples favorite unit for no reason. Just because it was one of the strongest units in the codex is a gakky reason to nerf them.

It was obviously one of the strongest units, which is my point. Certain units stood out as stronger than the rest. Now until we actually get to play the dex, we can't say "x" unit is strong now, since they all seem viable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Biker nobs were an elite T5, W2, 4+cover, 5++ and 5+ fnp death star unit able to be taken as a troop choice. The nerf was coming. Oh and they move 12" and have twin liked S5 guns.

We need to talk.

The deff rolla was one of two viable options we had for dealing with AV14, along with a PK equipped warboss. Both of these required you get them to their intended target. As to using them on targets other than, everyone got armor saves. Those with poor armor saves had weight of numbers vs the single d6.
It was in no way whatsoever 'broken', it also cost a lot of points.

The codex was what, 6 years old, older? In that time, many other codices have been done, the 'power' has crept up considerably. So when you take our best and make it worse and worst and bring it to the downgraded 'best', you end up with a lower mean capability on a codex that was already totally outgunned. You end up with an antiquated beige army that can't match the more recent codices it will be facing.

It required no nerfing, no downgrading, it was already showing its age more than a bit. Readjusting balance in a book a couple of years old is one thing, taking something this old and upping point costs and reducing capabilities was ridiculous. We should have seen boosts, inclusion and capability, instead we saw a very old book slightly adjusted, overfilled in slots and generally made less effective.

With the removal of the ability to make certain units troops we've lost options, not gained them. We didn't need our units 'balanced to themselves', we needed our army balanced to the rest of the armies.

Armor 14 is not that common we don't need a lot of ways to deal with Iit, and at least not spamable ways. I thinks orks ran more armor 14 than any one else with BW spam.

AV 14 is the province of the space marine land raider, in all its incarnations, across all it's various chapters and types, in the most popular armies there are.

I don't know where you're gaming but back in the UK I attended a tourney on about 30 tables and counted 20 land raiders. Whilst the land raider is just one entry, once you factor in how many books it's in, variants of it and how popular it is, with the addition of the durability of vehicles in 7th getting a sizable boost, those land raiders will be in full effect, being able to take out AV14 is important.

And the necron monolith, which may well be back in effect with the same vehicle rules. But regardless, AV14 exists and every other race has the means to conquer it at range and you're claiming a base to base weapon that might take it out is overpowered...

Our own AV14 is only front armor, the tank is AV13 and vulnerable to an array of enemy guns.

Are you an actual ork player?

BooBoo wrote:

One question please.
Deffcoptas are now 30 flat and can change weapons for free. Do they still get a TL rokkit launcha? What about other upgrades? My flyin boars skwadron needs to know his rules of engagement...

According to Melcavuk, they retain all their mix from the previous Codex. So yes, the weapon swap is free and it is a Twin Rokkit, the Kopta keeps its two wounds, its 4+ save, its jetbike status, profile, and may purchase Buzzsaws and those Bombs whose name I can't remember right now. Don't know if they mantain its unit size (1-5) and if they keep Hit and Run and Scout.

Correct, thanks.

And yes 1-5 in a squad

Thanks to you Melcavuk, you're da man!!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Question regarding the last issue:

Do Dethkoptas keep the Hit and Run and Scout rules?

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:

forgotten ghosts wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
So from what i have read they have taken the old over powered units that were auto include and toned them down.
.
They took the lesser used units or underpowered ones and beefed them up.
Now the units are balanced to themselves. Which more of the book viable. Tournament players won't like this since now not one unit stands out as OP over the rest and no clear choice for the auto include death star unit.
And the death roller was op, to think other wise I feel is silly. D6 str 10 hits on spammed battle wagons. No Ned to roll to him just move through units.
Biker nobs, the KFF and the BW death roller spam needed the nerf bat. This is coming from an ork tourny player.
I saw the KFF nerf coming having effect the hole unit as long as one model was with in 6 was silly.

i agree with all of that. if this if the trend for the future of 40k i think it will be more fun than ever, every one was trashin 7th, i have enjoyed the new missions.

How OP exactly were Biker Nobs? A biker nob list hasnt been that competitve since six edition hit. They nerfed a lot of peoples favorite unit for no reason. Just because it was one of the strongest units in the codex is a gakky reason to nerf them.

It was obviously one of the strongest units, which is my point. Certain units stood out as stronger than the rest. Now until we actually get to play the dex, we can't say "x" unit is strong now, since they all seem viable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Biker nobs were an elite T5, W2, 4+cover, 5++ and 5+ fnp death star unit able to be taken as a troop choice. The nerf was coming. Oh and they move 12" and have twin liked S5 guns.

We need to talk.

The deff rolla was one of two viable options we had for dealing with AV14, along with a PK equipped warboss. Both of these required you get them to their intended target. As to using them on targets other than, everyone got armor saves. Those with poor armor saves had weight of numbers vs the single d6.
It was in no way whatsoever 'broken', it also cost a lot of points.

The codex was what, 6 years old, older? In that time, many other codices have been done, the 'power' has crept up considerably. So when you take our best and make it worse and worst and bring it to the downgraded 'best', you end up with a lower mean capability on a codex that was already totally outgunned. You end up with an antiquated beige army that can't match the more recent codices it will be facing.

It required no nerfing, no downgrading, it was already showing its age more than a bit. Readjusting balance in a book a couple of years old is one thing, taking something this old and upping point costs and reducing capabilities was ridiculous. We should have seen boosts, inclusion and capability, instead we saw a very old book slightly adjusted, overfilled in slots and generally made less effective.

With the removal of the ability to make certain units troops we've lost options, not gained them. We didn't need our units 'balanced to themselves', we needed our army balanced to the rest of the armies.

Armor 14 is not that common we don't need a lot of ways to deal with Iit, and at least not spamable ways. I thinks orks ran more armor 14 than any one else with BW spam.

AV 14 is the province of the space marine land raider, in all its incarnations, across all it's various chapters and types, in the most popular armies there are.

I don't know where you're gaming but back in the UK I attended a tourney on about 30 tables and counted 20 land raiders. Whilst the land raider is just one entry, once you factor in how many books it's in, variants of it and how popular it is, with the addition of the durability of vehicles in 7th getting a sizable boost, those land raiders will be in full effect, being able to take out AV14 is important.

And the necron monolith, which may well be back in effect with the same vehicle rules. But regardless, AV14 exists and every other race has the means to conquer it at range and you're claiming a base to base weapon that might take it out is overpowered...

Our own AV14 is only front armor, the tank is AV13 and vulnerable to an array of enemy guns.

Are you an actual ork player?

20 Land Raiders on 30 tables?



Disclaimer: No offence intended

I can distinctly remember two times I saw a Land Raider at a tournament. On Saturday, wherein a guy with a CSM army had a barebones one in an army that was flawed in every dimension, lost all the games it played and only existed to transport a unit of Khorne Berserkers, and back at the very, very start of 6th in a Vulkan Salamander build.

I'd say not including the one I went to last weekend, I've been to about 6-7 tournaments wherein I'm extracting that sort of observation. I expect there might have been 1 or 2 more if I really thought about it but really, what planet are you living on.

Who even uses Monoliths? The only real AV14 threat that is common place now is the Leman Russ, and that will die to anything that can reach it in assault, has AV13 side armour and only 3 HP. Still an issue, but I'd imagine there are plenty ways to plan for AV14.

If you have trouble with a type of unit, you didn't plan to fail, you failed to plan.

Land raiders have been great in 7th.

 PhillyT wrote:
Land raiders have been great in 7th.

They're still absurdly overcosted in terms of firepower and its still almost completely impractical to run two of them because doing so would wreck your list structure, unless you're doing 2k, or possibly 1850 - though the effect would still be noticeable in the latter with passengers. Even fielding one doesn't do list structure and effectiveness any favours because you're still investing a crap ton of points into something that some armies will annihilate without breaking a sweat regardless, leaving a gaping hole in your rock-paper-scissors list.

See : Astra Militarum, , anyone with Meltas, Dark Eldar and normal Eldar just for starters

Only exception might be the Deathwing invinci-Land Raider but lets face it Dark Angels by this point are a bit of a joke

 PhillyT wrote:
Why are dark angels a joke? You seem to have a pretty restrictive impression of what is good.

I like crusaders and redeemers. Regular ones aren't very good though.

I would debate this through with you but I wouldn't want to drive this off-topic, the answer to this question can be found pretty easily if you look around

How many points did the lootas go down?

Why are dark angels a joke? You seem to have a pretty restrictive impression of what is good.

I like crusaders and redeemers. Regular ones aren't very good though.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Land raiders have been great in 7th.

They're still absurdly overcosted in terms of firepower and its still almost completely impractical to run two of them because doing so would wreck your list structure, unless you're doing 2k, or possibly 1850 - though the effect would still be noticeable in the latter with passengers. Even fielding one doesn't do list structure and effectiveness any favours because you're still investing a crap ton of points into something that some armies will annihilate without breaking a sweat regardless, leaving a gaping hole in your rock-paper-scissors list.

See : Astra Militarum, , anyone with Meltas, Dark Eldar and normal Eldar just for starters

Only exception might be the Deathwing invinci-Land Raider but lets face it Dark Angels by this point are a bit of a joke

Don't insult my mega over powered dark angels you hippie cuddling high five artist!! I know origami man, don't mess with me!!!

 Clang wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
These damn Meks and the new Painboys are monopose and they don't have a Kustom Forcefield on the sprue.

Spoiler:

Ta for the sprue pics, hadn't seen them before.

Yes, mono-pose is disappointing, although at least head/arm swaps are easy. And bulking up that mek backpack into a KFF wouldn't be hard.

My biggest complaint is the high price, given they're one tiny sprue with no alternate parts (not even a choice of heads) other than one mek arm swap.

At least the Mek sculptor had the respect for Ork players to make the head and arms compatible with other ork sprues. I don't HATE the sculpt of the painboy (although it looks too 'unique' to me to be a regular generic painboy), but it really irritates me that we have an army where most of the sculptors have taken PAINS to make most of the stuff cross compatible, and then this guy releases this. Thanks loads. Would it have killed you to make a less 'unique' sculpt which had compatible arms and head options to make it easy to create a painboy on bike? Weaksauce.

OK, I just can't sleep tonight because I'm worried about one thing. It's killing me. Really.

Do we have to stick to the special Ork FOC with a minimum of 3 Troop choices?
Or can we play just like any other army and possibly field two separate detachments with only 2 mandatory Troops to get extra HS slots?

Also, did the Deffkoptas get nerfed somehow? Rokkit Koptaz are just 30 points instead of 45.
A 33% point-cost reduction is huge. And I have plenty of them. Why bother with Buggies?
It's only a 5-point difference and you have a 4+ save.

Mal already said you can just use the regular FOC if you want. The special one is optional.

 Bonzofever wrote:
Also, did the Deffkoptas get nerfed somehow? Rokkit Koptaz are just 30 points instead of 45.
A 33% point-cost reduction is huge. And I have plenty of them. Why bother with Buggies?
It's only a 5-point difference and you have a 4+ save.

Pretty much everything with a rokkit in the 4th ed codex was overpriced, and they being fixed to be an alternative to big shootas rather than an "upgrade". It's one of the few unambiguously good things about the 7th ed codex so far.
The deffkopter also benifits from the across the board cost reductions for bikes that have been happening since 5th.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

Disclaimer: No offence intended

I can distinctly remember two times I saw a Land Raider at a tournament. On Saturday, wherein a guy with a CSM army had a barebones one in an army that was flawed in every dimension, lost all the games it played and only existed to transport a unit of Khorne Berserkers, and back at the very, very start of 6th in a Vulkan Salamander build.

I'd say not including the one I went to last weekend, I've been to about 6-7 tournaments wherein I'm extracting that sort of observation. I expect there might have been 1 or 2 more if I really thought about it but really, what planet are you living on.

Who even uses Monoliths? The only real AV14 threat that is common place now is the Leman Russ, and that will die to anything that can reach it in assault, has AV13 side armour and only 3 HP. Still an issue, but I'd imagine there are plenty ways to plan for AV14.

If you have trouble with a type of unit, you didn't plan to fail, you failed to plan.

Well, back about 4 years ago, when I still lived in the UK. I believe it was just prior to the release of grey knights. I had talked with the tourney organizers and they'd told me my 3 wagons with rollers were 'cheesy' and that if I entered, I'd be marked down for using such a list. So I didn't enter. I did walk the tables at the event to see what was going on and counted Land Raiders on many tables, some in multiples.

My point was not about edition, or really about tournament scene armies, but about the profusion of marine and marine variant armies, variants of the land raider and the number of players who use these armies, all adding up to the chances of encountering land raiders actually being fairly high.

As to monoliths, actually no clue the likelihood of encountering them, but I'd imagine it's just gone up with 7th making them even tougher to kill. Same with the 4HP Land raider.

"If you have trouble with a type of unit, you didn't plan to fail, you failed to plan. "
...Is perhaps the most meaningless thing I've read today, and I went on yahoo news comments... It literally has no application to what we were talking about, but it does make you sound really sharp there Sun Tzu.

Well, Deffkoptaz sound pretty amazing right now!
150 points for 10 wounds with T5 4+ and cover save...

 PhillyT wrote:
Mal already said you can just use the regular FOC if you want. The special one is optional.

Thank you for confirming that. Phew. Feeling better!

I went out and built an army designed to lose to land raiders.

Checkmate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bonzofever wrote:
OK, I just can't sleep tonight because I'm worried about one thing. It's killing me. Really.

Do we have to stick to the special Ork FOC with a minimum of 3 Troop choices?
Or can we play just like any other army and possibly field two separate detachments with only 2 mandatory Troops to get extra HS slots?

Also, did the Deffkoptas get nerfed somehow? Rokkit Koptaz are just 30 points instead of 45.
A 33% point-cost reduction is huge. And I have plenty of them. Why bother with Buggies?
It's only a 5-point difference and you have a 4+ save.

Buggies are fearless, Deffkoptas have one of the biggest morale issues in the game. Maybe less so with that orky infighting table thing though.

Just tried to pre order my codex... its unavailable...WHUT?

 Mumblez wrote:
Pre-ordered my warboss edition!

And so the cycle continues....

Did gw really nerf trukks?

In 4th dex trukks are basically so bad that they should give extra points if you field them. Now they are worse.

 illuknisaa wrote:
Did gw really nerf trukks?

In 4th dex trukks are basically so bad that they should give extra points if you field them. Now they are worse.

Forgive me, how did they nerf them? Is that where they reduce them by 5 points, make it easier for trukk boyz to get into combat before they break, make it so they don't blow up 2/3 of the time when they are glanced to death, made it so they downgrade 1/6 pens to glances, and made boarding planks, wreckin' balls, and grot riggers better? Is that what you meant?

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:
Pre-ordered my warboss edition!

And so the cycle continues....

I pre-ordered mine as well, I don't mind the investment considering the last codex was from fourth, this might have to do till 10th Edition .

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:


"If you have trouble with a type of unit, you didn't plan to fail, you failed to plan. "
...Is perhaps the most meaningless thing I've read today, and I went on yahoo news comments... It literally has no application to what we were talking about, but it does make you sound really sharp there Sun Tzu.

On the contrary, it is very applicable to issues with AV14 as a whole topic . I've seen countless people whinge about X unit being too strong without having adequately prepared for it, case in point for 3/4 of 6th; Riptides.

In addition, there are probably two states you are either in ; 1) Not having enough counters or consideration for them, in which case complaining about AV14 is invalid and 2) Having enough counters, in which case why are you complaining about it such that it seems to not be possible altogether?

Now relative to your argument that 2) is difficult or supposedly impossible to reach, it becomes less relevant, but otherwise, it has plenty of meaning as a blanket point to these sorts of questions.

 matphat wrote:

XC18 wrote:
7th edition is focused on controlling objectives.

I was planning to change my biker deathstar into an small & cheap unit of nobz bikers (with painboy for + survivability), that will turboboost here and there all over the board to collect VP each turn for me.
Now the new codex gives me +3 cover /4+ armour/5+ FNP ? Suits me very well.
Same for the stormboyz. 2D6 run ? they can reach an objective like nobody now.

The changes on bikers and even stormboys look like nerf, but maybe that because we still want to play them like we did in previous editions.

I am pretty sure we will discover plenty of new tactics with our new codex - so don't sell your army yet... ;p

Nobz are elite still correct? Are they allowed to score as elite in 7th? I've not gotten the book yet.

7th? Any units can score (bare zooming fliers, swooping FMC, falling back units...),, heck even your bastion can score Ahah..
Granted they re not troops so they don't have 'objectif secured'.

Leerjawise wrote:

 illuknisaa wrote:
Did gw really nerf trukks?

In 4th dex trukks are basically so bad that they should give extra points if you field them. Now they are worse.

Forgive me, how did they nerf them? Is that where they reduce them by 5 points, make it easier for trukk boyz to get into combat before they break, make it so they don't blow up 2/3 of the time when they are glanced to death, made it so they downgrade 1/6 pens to glances, and made boarding planks, wreckin' balls, and grot riggers better? Is that what you meant?

This is a very biased point of view, a prime example of cherry picking changes to reinforce a point of view. Trukks got better in a few ways, sure, but they also got noticeably worse in others, something you seem to have forgotten when you made this statement.

Boarding planks are great, but the other two upgrades, unless they are 5 points each, are a waste of points - who cares about IWND when "glanced to death" and "trukks" have never been used together in a sentance before your post?

Trukks explode stupendously more easily than before, despite vehicle changes in 7th, because of a loss of Ramshackle, which downgraded 2/3 of explodes to either wreck or "kareen" + explode which is more often than not an improvement. When trukks explode, they kill more boyz than before, and its definitely debatable as to whether "sometimes fail morale and sometimes beat half the unit to death and pass morale" tops "kill one for a re-roll on ld7+". Boyz inside trukks die a burney death from flamers eaasily, and trukks can no longer get KFF saves unless you put the Mek inside. Night Fight also got nerfed too, making them less survivable than before in 50% of games.

Its debatable as to whether they are better or worse, but whats not debateable is removing the awesome Ramshackle table, an example of random tables done right, with a bs 1/6 pens to glances result. One of the biggest issues I have with this codex, and which many others seem to agree with, is its uninspired design. A 6+ downgrade is way less enjoyable than the old ramshackle table, which was the most orky thing in the codex after the SAG

Is it true? Is the KFF really getting weaker? It's been getting weaker with every edition. There's one rule book that confers its protection as long as you are 6' away form another unit inside the bubble (not 6' away from the mek), but that's from the way-back. I'm still looking forward to seeing a new codex, but I am beginning to be more excited about the months after, when people figure out the better ways to use it.

 The Good Green wrote:
Is it true? Is the KFF really getting weaker? It's been getting weaker with every edition. There's one rule book that confers its protection as long as you are 6' away form another unit inside the bubble (not 6' away from the mek), but that's from the way-back. I'm still looking forward to seeing a new codex, but I am beginning to be more excited about the months after, when people figure out the better ways to use it.

KFF covers models (not units) within 6" with a 5++ bubble when disembarked from a transport. When embarked on a transport, it only confers 5++ upon the vehicle upon which you are embarked. When embarked, it does not confer the 5++ to the occupants of the vehicle, only to the vehicle itself, so the occupants cannot claim the KFF save against template weapons while embarked.

KFF also cannot be used in close combat.

Really it's only going to be usable when the Big Mek is either on foot or on a bike, and even then I think it's only going to be useful on a bike. It's almost not worth the points cost.

The KFF can also be put on a Morkanaut, which may be a worthwhile platform for it. It's got a big base, 5HP and 13/13/12 armor.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

On the contrary, it is very applicable to issues with AV14 as a whole topic . I've seen countless people whinge about X unit being too strong without having adequately prepared for it, case in point for 3/4 of 6th; Riptides.

In addition, there are probably two states you are either in ; 1) Not having enough counters or consideration for them, in which case complaining about AV14 is invalid and 2) Having enough counters, in which case why are you complaining about it such that it seems to not be possible altogether?

Now relative to your argument that 2) is difficult or supposedly impossible to reach, it becomes less relevant, but otherwise, it has plenty of meaning as a blanket point to these sorts of questions.

You're incredibly off base and Land Raiders are coming back and yes, they've traditionally hosed Orks pretty bad. And now they've lost more options to crack them instead of gaining them. And you're "whinging" bit needs to stop. Valid complaints are valid complaints and not every army has equal capabilities in overcoming certain units because they are overpowered. The game is broken as crap and the books are not on the same power level. This is not new and being incredibly reductive and borderline rude about it isn't helping this discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streamdragon wrote:
The KFF can also be put on a Morkanaut, which may be a worthwhile platform for it. It's got a big base, 5HP and 13/13/12 armor.

A Stompa + KFF + Little Meks is incredibly hard to kill. Whether or not it makes it's points back is a separate issue.

 streamdragon wrote:
The KFF can also be put on a Morkanaut, which may be a worthwhile platform for it. It's got a big base, 5HP and 13/13/12 armor.

If you were using Kans and Dreads this could make sense

Does a KFF Morkanaught produce a bubble? Or just 5++ for itself?

6" from the hull