Melevolence wrote: The way I see it is this. I'm not taking anything in this thread at face value. Regardless of someone claims they have the book, until I see pics or I have the book in hand, this all sounds way too terrible to be a thing. Granted, it's not outside of GW's ballpark to feth up so badly, but regardless. I'll retain all panic until I'm holding my own Codex and can see for myself. A lot of people getting too uppity of what we ASSUME is to be truth with no hard evidence to back any of it up.
No offence but that's stupid. Some people have the codex and are sharing. Why no belief? I only don't have it because I forgot my bank card on Friday. No assumption here. It is fact. It won't be as bad as you make out. Accept it and move on!
I'll believe it when I actually see it. Nothing wrong with being skeptical. And they have the 'allegedly leaked' version, which again, they have posted no solid proof of the gak thats being said. It's possible its true, the things they are saying. Which is what it is, and we will know for sure at the end of this week. *shrug* But until then, whatever.
I understand your desire to remain skeptical but it is a little insulting. Its not an "allegedly leaked" version, its a legally purchased black library digital edition codex that was available for me to download immediately. As for posting proof, aside from picture which would violate the terms of purchase (I think) I have answered any and all questions put to me.
I think in practice you will find that the amount of cheap outflanking stuff you can get, coupled with the increased speed of your boyz (whether in trukks or not), more than makes up for the mob rule changes.,
Each time a unit that includes at least one model with a Bosspole rolls on the Mob Rule table, you may choose to re-roll any result other than a Breaking Heads result. You must accept the result of the re-roll
Mumblez wrote: This isn't related to the new Mob Rule so it could be considered off topic, but what do you guys think a list like this?
Spoiler:
Primary Detachment
HQ
Warboss (probably with a PK, 'eavy armor, cybork body and a relic or two)
2*Big Mek with KFF
Troops
3*30 Slugga Boyz with Nob (PK, Bosspole)
Secondary Detachment
HQ
3*Painboy
Troops
3*30 Slugga Boyz with Nob (PK, Bosspole)
3 of the mobs get painboys for that FNP and the guys at the front will also get the KFF invuln against shooting. The warboss is there so you can Waaagh! when you need to and to add a bit more close combat punch.
Depending on how many points this is, you could fill out the rest with deffkoptaz or buggies so you have a bit more anti-tank.
If you guys want to hear about the Ghaz book, I'll have it by next week like the other warboss edition buyers. I can give a report on it if you want!
Well, if your opponent has tanks I don't think you'll be able to win with a footslogging army.
I think 10x Grots will be my best option for troops now... 40 points for each unit, that's 80 points + 1xHQ for each separate detachement.
Then, just field as many Buggies/Deffkoptaz/Mekgunz/Flashigtz as you wish and try to bring down your ennemy with firepower...
Each time a unit that includes at least one model with a Bosspole rolls on the Mob Rule table, you may choose to re-roll any result other than a Breaking Heads result. You must accept the result of the re-roll
Thanks very much. Which is the breaking heads result? The "1" ie. auto-fail out of combat even if you have a BP, or auto-pass in combat.?
Sorry for repeating my question but I don't think it's been answered. Can boarding planks still be used for their old purpose as well as the disembarl/assault 2" buff?
Mumblez wrote: This isn't related to the new Mob Rule so it could be considered off topic, but what do you guys think a list like this?
Primary Detachment
HQ
Warboss (probably with a PK, 'eavy armor, cybork body and a relic or two)
2*Big Mek with KFF
Troops
3*30 Slugga Boyz with Nob (PK, Bosspole)
Secondary Detachment
HQ
3*Painboy
Troops
3*30 Slugga Boyz with Nob (PK, Bosspole)
3 of the mobs get painboys for that FNP and the guys at the front will also get the KFF invuln against shooting. The warboss is there so you can Waaagh! when you need to and to add a bit more close combat punch.
Depending on how many points this is, you could fill out the rest with deffkoptaz or buggies so you have a bit more anti-tank.
If you guys want to hear about the Ghaz book, I'll have it by next week like the other warboss edition buyers. I can give a report on it if you want!
I'd still recommend Shoota > Slugga for foot sloggers, even with the 1pt increase.
You'd also benefit enormously from some Big Guns / Mek Guns / Looted Wagons / insert Ork Heavy Support choices here. I've found if there are no pieplates in an army, the enemy can deploy their units very, very effectually - and if there are, they're forced to spread their forces in an inconvenient manner.
Each time a unit that includes at least one model with a Bosspole rolls on the Mob Rule table, you may choose to re-roll any result other than a Breaking Heads result. You must accept the result of the re-roll
Thanks very much. Which is the breaking heads result? The "1" ie. auto-fail out of combat even if you have a BP, or auto-pass in combat.?
Probably the one that if you have a character you take the hits then pass.
mutantrocker wrote:Sorry for repeating my question but I don't think it's been answered. Can boarding planks still be used for their old purpose as well as the disembarl/assault 2" buff?
Each time a unit that includes at least one model with a Bosspole rolls on the Mob Rule table, you may choose to re-roll any result other than a Breaking Heads result. You must accept the result of the re-roll
Thanks very much. Which is the breaking heads result? The "1" ie. auto-fail out of combat even if you have a BP, or auto-pass in combat.?
Nope, breaking heads is the result every is dreading, the Nob beating the bejesus out of his own mob to keep them in the fight (D6str 4 hits). Essentially the Nob/Boss beats up his own boys, the mob takes the hits, and they keep in the fight. It protects the nob/character from taking hits |rerolls that result) or the mob fleeing if they arent in combat.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Probably the one that if you have a character you take the hits then pass.
Yes, of course. So you can't deliberately try to fail the test.
Edit:
Melcavuk wrote: Nope, breaking heads is the result every is dreading, the Nob beating the bejesus out of his own mob to keep them in the fight (D6str 4 hits). Essentially the Nob/Boss beats up his own boys, the mob takes the hits, and they keep in the fight. It protects the nob/character from taking hits |rerolls that result) or the mob fleeing if they arent in combat.
Are there little fluffy blurbs for each result on the table?
Ork Characters cannot take wounds from Breaking Eads, so if you have a unit comprised of Ork characters they automatically pass when rolling this results.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 1 Born to Fight: Orks love fighting, and the prospect of a good punch-up will sometimes stop them from running off
2-3 Breaking Heads: The mob’s leader knocks a few heads together until the ladz settle down and get back in the fight.
4-6 Squabble: A brawl breaks out as the Orks decide what to do. When the dust settles, nobody can remember what the trouble was about in the first place.
mutantrocker wrote:Sorry for repeating my question but I don't think it's been answered. Can boarding planks still be used for their old purpose as well as the disembarl/assault 2" buff?
nope sorry, its only the assault buff now.
Bugger. No more drive-by power klawing. Thanks for the info.
This week's WDW was actually alright, there's a bit of lore in there and an actual battle report too! But yeah, the rules for the looted wagon alone make it worth it if you're an ork player.
Or if you don't want to give GW your money (which I can totally understand) just look below.
mutantrocker wrote:Sorry for repeating my question but I don't think it's been answered. Can boarding planks still be used for their old purpose as well as the disembarl/assault 2" buff?
nope sorry, its only the assault buff now.
Bugger. No more drive-by power klawing. Thanks for the info.
Drive by Wrekkin Ball, D3 Strength 8 attacks, admittedly its a 3 inch "shooting" attack but its something.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Couple of minor issues I'm picking up:
Big meks (non mega armour) with KFF cant take any non-relic ranged weapons. Reasoning:
KFF Replaces Slugga
Mek Weapons says "A model can replace their RANGED weapon with one of the following"
So no KMB or KMS on a non mega Big Mek
Tank Bustas Big Nob has access to Melee weapon list but cant actually take anything, Reasoning:
Big Nob in Tank Busta unit is armed with Rokkit Launcha, Stick bombz, Tankbusta Bombz.
Melee weapon list: "A Model can replace their MELEE weapon with one of the following"
So yes they can access the list, but have nothing to exchange to get a weapon
Melcavuk wrote: Meks and Mega Nobz can take Killsaws (not buzz saws), which are armour bane power klaws. Normal nobz, and nobz in units do not have access to these.
Points cost varies (mega nobz pay 10 points to exchange both weapons for a pair of killsaws, Meks pay 20 to turn their choppas into a normal kill saw
Ah, I was hoping normal nobz could have them (giving use to the buzzsaw arm you get with the nob kit)
Regular meks can take a killsaw, right? Seems like a good way to add tank-busting capabilities to any unit that couldn't take a power klaw.
Can Painboys not take killsaws? I seem to remember some story from the farsight supplement which mentioned a painboy who dual-wielded killsaws. How about power klaws, or is that huge scalpel glove on the new model just an unusual way of carrying his dok's tools?
Can the tankbusta nob at least take a tank hammer?
mutantrocker wrote:Sorry for repeating my question but I don't think it's been answered. Can boarding planks still be used for their old purpose as well as the disembarl/assault 2" buff?
nope sorry, its only the assault buff now.
Bugger. No more drive-by power klawing. Thanks for the info.
Drive by Wrekkin Ball, D3 Strength 8 attacks, admittedly its a 3 inch "shooting" attack but its something.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Couple of minor issues I'm picking up:
Big meks (non mega armour) with KFF cant take any non-relic ranged weapons. Reasoning:
KFF Replaces Slugga
Mek Weapons says "A model can replace their RANGED weapon with one of the following"
So no KMB or KMS on a non mega Big Mek
Tank Bustas Big Nob has access to Melee weapon list but cant actually take anything, Reasoning:
Big Nob in Tank Busta unit is armed with Rokkit Launcha, Stick bombz, Tankbusta Bombz.
Melee weapon list: "A Model can replace their MELEE weapon with one of the following"
So yes they can access the list, but have nothing to exchange to get a weapon
I don't think that's a problem, as even if it's not stated, aren't all models considered to have a standard CCW in the core rules?
Perfect Organism wrote: Regular meks can take a killsaw, right? Seems like a good way to add tank-busting capabilities to any unit that couldn't take a power klaw.
Can Painboys not take killsaws? I seem to remember some story from the farsight supplement which mentioned a painboy who dual-wielded killsaws. How about power klaws, or is that huge scalpel glove on the new model just an unusual way of carrying his dok's tools?
Can the tankbusta nob at least take a tank hammer?
No killsaw or Klaw for the painboy, the thing on his hand is likely a combination of Doks tools and Urty Syringe.
Regular meks can take kill saws
Depends on which comes first, Boss Nob Cannot but Tankbusta can, so if he takes it then upgrades (because upgrading doesnt change his wargear) You could argue he can have it.
Nope, breaking heads is the result every is dreading, the Nob beating the bejesus out of his own mob to keep them in the fight (D6str 4 hits). Essentially the Nob/Boss beats up his own boys, the mob takes the hits, and they keep in the fight. It protects the nob/character from taking hits |rerolls that result) or the mob fleeing if they arent in combat.
Wait a minute. That's the 2-6 result. Edit: Breaking heads is the 2-3 result.
Hypothetically, if I have a mob less than 10 Orks with a Nob and a bosspole. If I fail a leadership test and roll a 5 on the animosity chart, can I reroll that result?
TableTopJosh wrote: The changes are whatever, a slight buff there a slight nerf there, its just sitting weird because its not what must of us were expecting.
Really? Because to me, this release looks rather predictable...
They changed invulnerable saves to be consistent with other armies.
They generally buffed weak units and nerfed the stronger ones.
They added more random tables / random values.
They changed the weirdboy to be consistent with other psykers.
They included a couple of things that reference back to the 1st/2nd edition books.
They gave us a range of moderately good ranged anti-armour options.
not really...
no other army cant get invuls
boyz got nerfed, lootaz got buffed
meh -.-
still got his own chart and way of gettin charges
like no mobrule
wich anti armour option are you talking about? big guns? those things competing with buffed lootaz, flashgitz, looted/battlewagons, dreads and kanz?
i'm really struggling to find any good new thing that didnt nerfed an old rule...
just take the stormboyz example... they are much cheaper now and can be taken in larger numbers! but are much more slower and suffer ALOT of self-inflicted damage
there's no real win here...
Nope, breaking heads is the result every is dreading, the Nob beating the bejesus out of his own mob to keep them in the fight (D6str 4 hits). Essentially the Nob/Boss beats up his own boys, the mob takes the hits, and they keep in the fight. It protects the nob/character from taking hits |rerolls that result) or the mob fleeing if they arent in combat.
by the way...
1. is the killkannon still str7 24"?
2. and what happens if the nob is the only surviving model? he beats himself to death?
Yes, you can reroll results of 1,4,5,6 when you have a Boss pole, and its useful for small mobs too.
If you have less than 10 people in the mob then a roll of 4,5,6 you autofail normally, so the reroll to a 2-3 whilst taking hits means you stay in the fight.
Obviously 1 is an auto fail unless you're in combat, so 2-3 again can keep you in the fight.
TableTopJosh wrote: The changes are whatever, a slight buff there a slight nerf there, its just sitting weird because its not what must of us were expecting.
Really? Because to me, this release looks rather predictable...
They changed invulnerable saves to be consistent with other armies.
They generally buffed weak units and nerfed the stronger ones.
They added more random tables / random values.
They changed the weirdboy to be consistent with other psykers.
They included a couple of things that reference back to the 1st/2nd edition books.
They gave us a range of moderately good ranged anti-armour options.
not really...
no other army cant get invuls
boyz got nerfed, lootaz got buffed
meh -.-
still got his own chart and way of gettin charges
like no mobrule
wich anti armour option are you talking about? big guns? those things competing with buffed lootaz, flashgitz, looted/battlewagons, dreads and kanz?
i'm really struggling to find any good new thing that didnt nerfed an old rule...
just take the stormboyz example... they are much cheaper now and can be taken in larger numbers! but are much more slower and suffer ALOT of self-inflicted damage
there's no real win here...
Nope, breaking heads is the result every is dreading, the Nob beating the bejesus out of his own mob to keep them in the fight (D6str 4 hits). Essentially the Nob/Boss beats up his own boys, the mob takes the hits, and they keep in the fight. It protects the nob/character from taking hits |rerolls that result) or the mob fleeing if they arent in combat.
by the way...
1. is the killkannon still str7 24"?
2. and what happens if the nob is the only surviving model? he beats himself to death?
RedNoak wrote: wich anti armour option are you talking about? big guns? those things competing with buffed lootaz, flashgitz, looted/battlewagons, dreads and kanz?
Mekgunz are cheaper than Flashgitz, Battlewagons, Dreads and Kans.
They also have better survivability than Lootas. (T7 3+ save)
2-3 results on mob rules cannot hurt Ork characters, if the unit rolls this and is solely comprised of Ork characters its an auto pass
why cant the 2-3 result hurt characters?
the rule states (your quote):
2-3
If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
it says the UNIT suffers
and if you refer to this:
Breaking Heads: The mob’s leader knocks a few heads together until the ladz settle down and get back in the fight.
than you could also argue, only mobs with at least 3 models (1 nob + 2 nonNobs) are affected by this result
This army is going to be great. Lets settle down guys.
We are having issue because people are in that difficult period where the various wish lists and rumors are proven wrong and folks are grieving.
Our threat ranges for charging in or out of vehicles are fantastic now. Ard Boyz are going to be a very good option.
The biggest issue for many is the removal of the various troop slot manipulations. Those are still possible with unbound lists. If your group doesn't allow it, that is a you thing, don't blame GW.
Others are complaining about the need for multiple FOC to maximize the heavy selections. If your group is unnecessarily restrictive and arbitrarily chopping out rules from the core system, why blame GW for not helping you out? Did you email them with the litany of changes you and your friends have made to the game so they could tailor the book to your experiences?
Within an unrestricted environment, this book is awesome.
2-3 results on mob rules cannot hurt Ork characters, if the unit rolls this and is solely comprised of Ork characters its an auto pass
why cant the 2-3 result hurt characters?
the rule states (your quote):
2-3
If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
it says the UNIT suffers
and if you refer to this:
Breaking Heads: The mob’s leader knocks a few heads together until the ladz settle down and get back in the fight.
than you could also argue, only mobs with at least 3 models (1 nob + 2 nonNobs) are affected by this result
If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. These hits are Randomly Allocated, but cannot be allocated to Ork characters (any excess hits are lost). If the unit does not include any Ork characters, it fails the Morale check or Pinning test
2. and what happens if the nob is the only surviving model? he beats himself to death?
2-3 results on mob rules cannot hurt Ork characters, if the unit rolls this and is solely comprised of Ork characters its an auto pass
Aren't ork Nobs characters? therefore a unit of Nobs or Meganobs cannot take the hits and simply autopass unless its a 1?
is that right?
I thought ork nobs had become characters at some point recently? (i mainly model, but gona play more this dex - i hope)
Hmm
im thinking (as i like dred lists) that combining the IA dred mob with units from the new dex could make some lovely lists. I really like the idea of adding plenty of lobbas/mek guns to an IA list with dreds as troops.
I keep despising the new stuff i read;
Like the new ramshackle = full of fail - old rule was wicked fun, new rule seems meh, even if the new rule is mathematically superior its just dull. i loved kareen.
Mob rule seems poor, but still 50/50 as to what i think
The overall cutting of cool ideas, simply to use them as dataslates(money makers), IE, biker troops, kan troops(hoping) etc...
Overall i dislike the approach GW took which seems aimed at primarily making profit, but as we are yet to use the dex and see it fully i am hoping there are plenty of viable options to give me a fluffy yet fun and competitive in some sense.
Just want to say Thanks to all those who have the dex and have been sharing
PhillyT wrote: This army is going to be great. Lets settle down guys.
We are having issue because people are in that difficult period where the various wish lists and rumors are proven wrong and folks are grieving.
Our threat ranges for charging in or out of vehicles are fantastic now. Ard Boyz are going to be a very good option.
The biggest issue for many is the removal of the various troop slot manipulations. Those are still possible with unbound lists. If your group doesn't allow it, that is a you thing, don't blame GW.
Others are complaining about the need for multiple FOC to maximize the heavy selections. If your group is unnecessarily restrictive and arbitrarily chopping out rules from the core system, why blame GW for not helping you out? Did you email them with the litany of changes you and your friends have made to the game so they could tailor the book to your experiences?
Within an unrestricted environment, this book is awesome.
In an unrestricted enviroment this book will be a small green speedbump... The amount of cheese that can be thrown around in an "unrestricted enviroment" is terrible.
Trying to blame the gamers for GWs lack of balance is just stupid.
PhillyT wrote: This army is going to be great. Lets settle down guys.
We are having issue because people are in that difficult period where the various wish lists and rumors are proven wrong and folks are grieving.
Our threat ranges for charging in or out of vehicles are fantastic now. Ard Boyz are going to be a very good option.
The biggest issue for many is the removal of the various troop slot manipulations. Those are still possible with unbound lists. If your group doesn't allow it, that is a you thing, don't blame GW.
Others are complaining about the need for multiple FOC to maximize the heavy selections. If your group is unnecessarily restrictive and arbitrarily chopping out rules from the core system, why blame GW for not helping you out? Did you email them with the litany of changes you and your friends have made to the game so they could tailor the book to your experiences?
Within an unrestricted environment, this book is awesome.
In an unrestricted enviroment this book will be a small green speedbump... The amount of cheese that can be thrown around in an "unrestricted enviroment" is terrible.
Trying to blame the gamers for GWs lack of balance is just stupid.
You aren't just referring to an unrestricted environment, you are referring to an unrestrictive environment populated by D-bags. The only time there is a requirement to put massive restrictions on the BRB is when you do not trust your fellow players. If you don't trust them, play a balanced list and the whole one FOC/no unbound list. If you have friends you trust, play themed unbound lists. Unbound was made precisely for bike and dredd lists.
PhillyT wrote: This army is going to be great. Lets settle down guys.
Our threat ranges for charging in or out of vehicles are fantastic now. Ard Boyz are going to be a very good option.
So you suggest to play 'ardboyz in Trukks or Battlewagons?
Sluggas or Shootas? Open-topped or 'ard cased DT?
I don't think it's a very good option but you should try to give us more insight about your strategy here
I am really starting to loose all faith in dakka dakka. Maybe I just need to stay off news and rumors because literally every news and rumors thread is full of negative games workshop bashing and hatered. This release is in line with space marines nids and guard. If you have such a big problem with the game just quit and do something else with your time. I don't want to hear that you are financially invested. If you hate the game that much it sounds like you lost your investment. Cut your losses and move on with life. End rant.
Our threat ranges for charging in or out of vehicles are fantastic now. Ard Boyz are going to be a very good option.
I was thinking about running Ard Boyz in Trukks, because I've got two unopened Ork Battleforces that I've been hanging on to until I figured out what to do with them (e.g. when the codex hits). I've got all the bits (two trukks and 40 Ard Boyz with various gubbins) and I'm rearing to go, esp with the kombi-skorchas. But honestly I'm really not sure, lol.
These rules are pretty gak. I'm still debating on whether or not I'm just going to sell these two unopened boxes of on-sprue boyz not even bothering buying 7th ed or the codex (that's like $130 right there back in my pocket). I realize that there are two nice changes with Ard Boyz, in particular the fact that they removed the one unit limit and they did increase charge distance. But there's also no Waaagh.
So I guess if you think this is a great option, sell me. Because I'm seriously on the fence and I've already got the bits for exactly that option. I still wasn't sure what I was going to do with the bikes, maybe put a painboy on one, but I'm not sure how the hell I'm going to model it now that the old model is gone and the new one is monopose (not compatible with biker model).
rothrich wrote: I am really starting to loose all faith in dakka dakka. Maybe I just need to stay off news and rumors because literally every news and rumors thread is full of negative games workshop bashing and hatered. This release is in line with space marines nids and guard. If you have such a big problem with the game just quit and do something else with your time. I don't want to hear that you are financially invested. If you hate the game that much it sounds like you lost your investment. Cut your losses and move on with life. End rant.
People don't hate the game. Infact they care about it so much that they want to make it better. Telling negative critisism =/= hates the game, negative critisism=being honest.
PhillyT wrote: This army is going to be great. Lets settle down guys.
Our threat ranges for charging in or out of vehicles are fantastic now. Ard Boyz are going to be a very good option.
So you suggest to play 'ardboyz in Trukks or Battlewagons?
Sluggas or Shootas? Open-topped or 'ard cased DT?
I don't think it's a very good option but you should try to give us more insight about your strategy here
A couple units in trukks, but more in battle wagons. At 10 points, hard boyz are still decent, especially with the improvements to their charge range allowing them to actually get into combat. Threat distances are now pretty close to what they were under 5th edition, with an average range for wagon and trukk boyz being around 25"!
12 hard boyz in a trukk run around 200 points with a boarding plank, but if they aren't destroyed, you will be getting into combat on turn 2 every time. Swamp the board with them and they do fine. The only issue now is that the open topped trukks whack them with a S4 hit if it explodes. Normally you lose half your boyz. Hard boyz will at least be able to weather than and only lose 3.
I am planning on running at least 2 trukks of boyz with sluggas, one being hard boyz. I need to paint up another 6 hard boyz to get two full trukks worth. Wagons are probably an even better option since you can stuff 20 hard boyz in there and are more likely to survive the journey.
Either way, people are ignoring the massive boost to charge ranges and obsessing over the death other their wish lists, which is totally normal at this phase (after the first initial confirmed rumor wave). People will recover and see that this book is a significant improvement over the last one and will be a good mid level codex.
I think rokkit spam going to be the only really viable list this edition.
At least now instead of big shootaz which did nothing 90% of the time, we can use rokkits that do nothing 90% of the time but can do it to vehicles.
Tank hunter allows us to only do nothing 80% of the time, haha.
How much is a base russ? I'm just wondering how a BW with 'ard case and rokkits compare.
I'm trying to figure out how to make vehicles in this edition work. My main point is, I REALLY do not like open topped anymore for three reasons.
1) It robs us of the durability presented by the changes to the damage chart. An open topped BW goes big on a 5 up instead of a 4 up. I'd rather only explode on a 6 (or not explode at all if someone gets side armor... which isn't hard).
2) Being an assault vehicle is no longer an asset. Trying to speed forward and hop out and assault just isn't working anymore. It hasn't worked for a long time. Against any competent player, you will hop out, kill 60 points of kroot, and watch your unit evaporate. The insane inflation competitive armies have seen in damage output, particularly close ranged, means no amount of boyz will live long outside of their metal bawkz.
3) Getting close to an enemy is just asking to die thanks to No Escape. Hell, sometimes you can't avoid watching your supposedly 'safe' boyz die, as some stupid helldrake passes over. Being open topped makes it even easier for some jerk with a flamer to toast expensive specialists you were trying to protect in a trukk or wagon.
So back to my main thoughts. Lootaz being moved to heavy support Suuuuuuuuuucks. I think Tank Huntaz will be our go to unit now. Big Gunz or lootaz will be personal choice. Battlewagons will disappear unless you're taking meganobz. We just don't have the slots to allow battlewagons.
(Yes, rules say unlimited detatchments blah blah blah. But as a competitive player who wants to try to bring some balance to this hopeless game, I'm trying to limit this to one force org. As I've said over and over, unlimited detachments helps orks... but it helps other powerful armies WAAAAAAAY more. Do not go down this road).
On the bright side those explode results would be against an ard boy'z 4+ armor save, but on the down side, you have to take a pinning test against the new chart if you fail on a leadership 7.
Str 4 hits across the board would work also work out to 25% casualties, which could force a leadership test, so even with 'eavy armor it looks like you could be facing 2 leadership tests with the new chart for every trukk explodes result.
Melcavuk wrote: Boss Nobz are characters, unfortunately Nobz Squads only contain a single Boss Nob, the rest are Infantry.
Good god man learn to read back instead of spamming your questions endlessly.
says the pointless poster, who has been filling a thread with pointless posts making it twice as long to read it through. how about a deal? stop posting non-sense and we'll all read it through in its much slimmer version.
back on topic - tankbustas in a trukk sounds good, but is the trukk really adding much? mobility i suppose. however, i think smaller units in wagons would be more effective, although S7, large blast sin't much use if your hunting high armour. but target saturation of their AT (as they still need to use ranged high str weapons to hit the wagon), then the wagons also double up to help shoot infantry squads.
'Ard boyz suffer from the tyranid syndrome of trying to polish a turd. Yeah, you can give a hormagaunt toxin sacks and adrenal glands so its actually... effective in combat instead of something to choke your enemy's guns. However, the upgrades cost as much as another gaunt.
In almost all cases, you're better off with just more wounds, more squads. More objective secured.
I can only agree with PhillyT. If you're not willing to embrace unbound or multiple FOCs (which are two core mechanics this edition) then yes, this codex sucks. I'll make you a bet that if you ignore those two options the codex after orks will suck too!
If you want to run mass bikerz or a dread mob, use IA8, unbound or multiple FOCs. Those are your options WITH THIS BOOK. If your opponents are okay with you using the older codex and you prefer using that, use that! But this discussion is about the new codex and your options are the ones we've discussed a dozen times by now.
The new codex seems alright to me. We are more likely to fail leadership, but we have options we didn't have before like going to ground. Lootas being moved to heavy support also means that the new, buffed tankbustaz will be taken more often. Rokkitz aren't the best anti-tank gun in the game, but combined with tank hunters they're perfect for dealing with transports and non-land raider vehicles.
Grot riggaz giving IWND to all our vehicles is really, really beneficial for massed vehicles lists. As I said before, it means your opponent has to kill your trukkz and wagonz one at a time - that battlewagon with 1 hull point left might be back to full by the time he gets to shoot it again!
If you're looking for a deathstar unit nob bikerz will still do the job even after the nerf. A nob biker mob with a painboy biker, a KFF big meg biker and a warboss has a 4+ armor save, 6+ FNP even if the painboy is killed and 5+ as long as he's there and a 5++ against shooting - and they can still jink. That still seems krump-capable. Is it worse than the old nob bikerz? Yes, but come on, 2 wound bike models with 3 S9 AP2 attacks each with objective secured was a bit over the top.
Killsaw meganobz in a battlewagon can also be used a deathstar and they'll tear anything they come in contact with apart. Their only downside is they don't benefit from the new Waaagh! since they can't run - but that's why you take a battlewagon with a boarding plank, so you can disembark 6" and charge 2D6" + 2" and re-roll one charge dice.
Our heavy support choices are great. Lootaz are cheaper now and still just as good, flash gitz have been buffed and mek gunz are awesome if a bit specialized. Not to mention cheap looted wagonz.
Give it some time, ladz. It's not the old codex and this is both a good and a bad thing. In the end though, we orkses gonna krump errybody else cuz we iz da orkz and we waz made to fight an' win!
EDIT: As for competetive lists, I'm not in the know as I haven't been following any of the tournament scenes for a while now. I hope someone will come up with a good competetive list for orks, because last I remember, we were under-represented in tournaments. Rokkit spam sounds pretty good - it's decent against transports and kills beakiez too.
Goresaw wrote: 'Ard boyz suffer from the tyranid syndrome of trying to polish a turd. Yeah, you can give a hormagaunt toxin sacks and adrenal glands so its actually... effective in combat instead of something to choke your enemy's guns. However, the upgrades cost as much as another gaunt.
In almost all cases, you're better off with just more wounds, more squads. More objective secured.
Yeah, with a 4+ armor save you're only saving 1/2 of a boy in an instance in which you'd be facing AP6 (not all the time), so it really should be 3 pts a model....
Also doesn't improve your new fethed leadership or help against AP4 which is prolific.
And of course that doesn't affect your offensive stats. Another boy is another 2 WS4 attacks (or 3 with choppa and slugga).
If you want to embrace unlimited force orgs, you embrace seeing 12, 90 point annihilation barges. You embrace a tau player bringing MSU broadsides (20ish broadsides split up into smaller units). You embrace 9 thunderfire cannons.
So did I read / hear this right ghaz has no 'regular' invulnerable save? And to me his warlord trait sounds worse then the one in the book. Or are they the same?
If you're looking for a deathstar unit nob bikerz will still do the job even after the nerf. A nob biker mob with a painboy biker, a KFF big meg biker and a warboss has a 4+ armor save, 6+ FNP even if the painboy is killed and 5+ as long as he's there and a 5++ against shooting - and they can still jink. That still seems krump-capable. Is it worse than the old nob bikerz? Yes, but come on, 2 wound bike models with 3 S9 AP2 attacks each with objective secured was a bit over the top.
They don't have objective secured, and Power Klaws cost half as much as a nob biker. Your criticism is complete bunk. The removal of scoring Nobz should have defanged any concern about obj secured, which btw only counts if you're using battleforged lists, which is intended as a benefit for hobbling your army by using an FOC, which unbound lists do not have to do.
A good nob biker unit could easily go over 400 points or over 500 points with the requisite bikerboss to make them scoring, and they could be countered in a straightforward way.
Edit: BTW, a KFF Big Mek Biker would run you over 100 pts, compared to 5ppm for cybork 5++ saves that could be used in close combat in the last codex. Huge nerf, both in terms of cost and effectiveness.
ravenousork25 wrote: So did I read / hear this right ghaz has no 'regular' invulnerable save? And to me his warlord trait sounds worse then the one in the book. Or are they the same?
Ghaz has no regular invulnerable save. Cybork bodies was nerfed to 6+ FNP.
PhillyT wrote: This army is going to be great. Lets settle down guys.
We are having issue because people are in that difficult period where the various wish lists and rumors are proven wrong and folks are grieving.
Our threat ranges for charging in or out of vehicles are fantastic now. Ard Boyz are going to be a very good option.
The biggest issue for many is the removal of the various troop slot manipulations. Those are still possible with unbound lists. If your group doesn't allow it, that is a you thing, don't blame GW.
Others are complaining about the need for multiple FOC to maximize the heavy selections. If your group is unnecessarily restrictive and arbitrarily chopping out rules from the core system, why blame GW for not helping you out? Did you email them with the litany of changes you and your friends have made to the game so they could tailor the book to your experiences?
Within an unrestricted environment, this book is awesome.
In an unrestricted enviroment this book will be a small green speedbump... The amount of cheese that can be thrown around in an "unrestricted enviroment" is terrible.
Trying to blame the gamers for GWs lack of balance is just stupid.
You aren't just referring to an unrestricted environment, you are referring to an unrestrictive environment populated by D-bags. The only time there is a requirement to put massive restrictions on the BRB is when you do not trust your fellow players. If you don't trust them, play a balanced list and the whole one FOC/no unbound list. If you have friends you trust, play themed unbound lists. Unbound was made precisely for bike and dredd lists.
its not about trusting my gaming group or not. being forced to play multi FOC or unbound just to fix the codex is pure stupidity. We played unbound 25 years ago and i cant see myself doing that now.
OK, I'm not a competitive player so these might not be great but:
Big Mek, Mega Armour, KFF, Kustom Mega Blasta, Lukky Stixx.
Mek Gunz Battery: 5 x Kannons, 10 x Extra Grots.
240ish points, can walk and fire due to slow and purposeful, mek at front takes incoming fire. T7 due to artillery, 2+ save, 5++, rerollable. AP2 gets deflected onto T7 grots.
Tankbustas x 15, Battlewagon, 4 x Rokkits, Kannon
335 Points, 19 Rokkits a turn, plus a kannon shot. 15 of the rokkits are Tank Hunters, still has room in the wagon for a character to flavour (or Meks with more rokkits)
Really? You're gonna do this? Rules lawyer the one person with the actual book based on his own paraphrased info?
no, i just wanted to understand the rule. no harm meant.
PhillyT wrote: This army is going to be great. Lets settle down guys.
We are having issue because people are in that difficult period where the various wish lists and rumors are proven wrong and folks are grieving.
Our threat ranges for charging in or out of vehicles are fantastic now. Ard Boyz are going to be a very good option.
your're right in the first part. overall rumors were quite good, the ones that did made it in the book are mostly terrible.
the thread range hasnt increased that much. (maybe the exact wording for the RPJ is needed) but the plank gives 1" more range than the RPJ and it costs 15 POINTS... quite an investment for a 30 point trukk (for battlewagons they're great)
The biggest issue for many is the removal of the various troop slot manipulations. Those are still possible with unbound lists. If your group doesn't allow it, that is a you thing, don't blame GW.
Others are complaining about the need for multiple FOC to maximize the heavy selections. If your group is unnecessarily restrictive and arbitrarily chopping out rules from the core system, why blame GW for not helping you out? Did you email them with the litany of changes you and your friends have made to the game so they could tailor the book to your experiences?
Within an unrestricted environment, this book is awesome.
its not that we are "chopping out rules from the core system" its just that unbound armies are just plain stupid. sure you can make alot of fun lists (like 50 sentinels)... but you could do so since 1st edition. in a 'friendly environment' this was NEVER a problem in the first place. JUST ASK AND DO IT.
the issue starts when you maximize the effectiveness of an army by taking only elite and support choices or whatever OP units the army has...
themed ork lists were NEVER overpowered. spamming bikes or kanz wasnt a gamebreaker... in the 4th edition using massive amounts of boyz was the best thing to do, still many preferred themed lists cause it was more fun to play, while remaining competitive.
it just feels to me that GW is forcing us to go unbound or multiple-FOC... how else do you explain the loss of bike troops, the densely cramped support section, lack of looted wagon, ghaz as Low and the stompa?
and by the way... in a 'friendly environment' we dont need GW to tailor the book to our experiences, the 'friendly environment' tailors the book to their experiences.
Compiled rules posted below (repost) for convenience, someone please put this in the OP kthx
Spoiler:
COLLECTED LEAKED INFO
HQs listed as
Zagstruk
Grotsnik
Mek is a slotless HQ, 1 per actual HQ bought, has Boy statline
Big Mek does not change FoC "A Big Mek may take items from the Mek Weapons, Melee Weapons, Runts & Squigs, Orky Know-wots and/or Gifts of Gork and Mork lists."
Painboy Painboy is IC, so put him where you need him, can take a bike, no 'Eavy Armor
Warboss does not change FoC Weirdboy. gain a Warp Charge point if there are 10 or more models with the 'ere we go rule (Pretty much any Ork from what I've seen) in 12" but has to take a psychic save or take a hit. Can be upgraded to Psyker level 2. Power of the Waaagh! and Daemonlogy disciplines.
Badrukk is a HQ (3+, 5++, str 7 AP2 assault 3 gun) , Badrukk has the rules listed for Da Rippa, but it is not listed in his wargear
Snikrot is not HQ, Snikkrot an elite (doesnt take a slot if taken with Kommandos) (shrouded on arrival, you pick an edge to outflank dont roll), causes fear.
No Wazdakka
No Zogwort.
Ghaz is a LOW now, can take runts/squigs, stats look unchaged
D6 Warlord Trait
1 Prophet of the Waaagh!: Mork (or possibly Gork) has chosen this Warlord for greatness, and every Ork under his command knows it.
The Warlord gains the Waaagh! special rule. If the Warlord already has the Waaagh! special rule then, in addition to the usual effects, all friendly models with the ’Ere We Go! special rule gain the Fearless special rule when he calls a Waaagh!, until the start of their next turn.
2 Bellowing Tyrant: This Warlord is an unholy terror, a roaring lunatic whose every (very loud) word is law.
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, re-roll failed Morale checks and Pinning tests.
3 Like a Thunderbolt!: This Warlord is a master of the all-out, no-holds-barred, headlong charge into battle.
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, can re-roll all the dice when determining Run moves or charge range.
4 Brutal but Kunnin’: This Warlord has a sneaky streak a mile wide and knows just where to hit his foes.
The Warlord can re-roll one failed To Hit or To Wound roll each turn.
5 Kunnin’ but Brutal: The Warlord knows when to roll with a punch, and can shrug off the hardest blows.
The Warlord can re-roll one failed armour or invulnerable saving throw each turn.
6 Might is Right: Made of muscle and aggression, this Warlord is the embodiment of the Orks’ warlike nature.
The Warlord receives +1 to the Strength characteristic on his profile.
Power of the Waaagh!
Primaris power is Frazzle (Blast witchfire).
'Eadbanger is now a focussed witchfire.
Warpath is a self blessing
Da jump is what used to be 'ere we go.
Killbolt is a beam attack.
Power vomit is a template witchfire.
Da Krunch is a barrage witchfire.
Mob rule is replaced by the D6 roll on Mob Chart
Mob Chart
D6 Result
1 If the unit is locked in combat, it passes the Morale check or Pinning test. If the unit is not locked in combat, it fails.
2-3 If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
4-6 If the unit has 10 or more models, it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. The hits are Randomly Allocated. If the unit has fewer than 10 models, it fails the Morale check or Pinning test.
Boss Pole gives Reroll on the mob chart.
A Big Mek with mega armour can take one of the following
- Tellyport blasta Tellyporta blasta is the back mouned thing I've been describing and seems... uh, situational at best? Very short range weapon but causes instant death on a 6 wound. Rolling a 6 on AP causes a penetrating hit regardless of AV.
- Kustom force field
- Shock attack gun roll of double 6 is vortex!!!
- KFF can be combined with mega armour and bikes, Shock attack gun seems to be combinable with bikes.
- Git finda on SAG
Relics:
Gifts of Gork and Mork
Da Dead Shiny Shoota 6 shots twinlinked shoota, rolls of 1 hit one of your own units
Da Finkin’ Kap gives your warlord an additional trait from the strategic list.
Da Fixer Upperz
Da Lucky Stikk
Headwoppa’s Killchoppa is a +2 str, AP5, rending choppa that beheads on a roll of 6 (insta death).
Warboss Gazbag’s Blitzbike has an AP3 deff gun on it
Kustom Mega Slugga is a thing.
Buggys don't get new weapons, do get Grot Riggers at 10 points.
Painboy gives 5+ FNP, Cybork Bodies now gives 6+ FNP.
Grot riggers don't just work for IWND on 'nauts, any vehicle that has them, but cost per vehicle seems to differ. 20 to put them on a 'naut. BW don't seem to have the option.
Looks to be a lot more options with selecting wargear for meks
Stompa in as super heavy
Battle Wagon up 20 points.
Killkannon still lowers transport on BW
Attack squig nerfed to 1 reroll in melee per turn
Ramshackle got clobbered.. 6+ save when you take a pen, if successful downgrade to glance
Buggies in units of 5, gained outflank and a minor point decrease.
Rule for planks is a little complicated. If you get out of open topped and declare a charge, add 2 to the charge range
Deffrolla gains AP4 and loses half the hits
Lootas Heavy Support and cheaper (5 points less per squad)
Kans come in 6 packs, NO twin guns, NO Troop choice option, have special morale rule
If you take an Ork Warband detachment, you can Waaaagh every turn after the first
Orks are susceptible to fear now
Tankbustas, are elite, got Tank Hunter, 2 points cheaper per model, and no longer have to shoot at nearest tank, Tankbusta bomb is now a melta bomb, can take a trukk, and get 2 VP for first blood if they blow up a tank.
Stormboyz can NOT assault flyers
Meganobz still bulky and use 2 spots in transport
Kommandos got move through cover, stealth and infiltrate, no point hike
Burnas can take dedicated trukks
Ork boys cost the same, but Shoota is 1 pt ugrade now
Pain Boys can not get 'Eavy Amor
Zzap Gun 2D6, gets hot on a 1-3 if you roll 11 or 12
Kannons and Lobbas unchanged
Cheap IWND on vehicles (5 points on Kans, 10 on dreds)
Dedi transports available for burnas and tank bustas now
Can we buy the waaagh! Ghazghkull supplement separate from the warboss edition package? The white dwarf states " these limited editions are available exclusively in this box set - in the case of waaagh! Ghazghkull, this is the only place you'll find the book until the standard edition is released in a couple of weeks time"
so does that mean the supplement will be sold separately on the week of the meganobs release..?
TedNugent wrote: Compiled rules posted below (repost) for convenience, someone please put this in the OP kthx
Spoiler:
COLLECTED LEAKED INFO
HQs listed as
Zagstruk
Grotsnik
Mek is a slotless HQ, 1 per actual HQ bought, has Boy statline
Big Mek does not change FoC "A Big Mek may take items from the Mek Weapons, Melee Weapons, Runts & Squigs, Orky Know-wots and/or Gifts of Gork and Mork lists."
Painboy Painboy is IC, so put him where you need him, can take a bike, no 'Eavy Armor
Warboss does not change FoC Weirdboy. gain a Warp Charge point if there are 10 or more models with the 'ere we go rule (Pretty much any Ork from what I've seen) in 12" but has to take a psychic save or take a hit. Can be upgraded to Psyker level 2. Power of the Waaagh! and Daemonlogy disciplines.
Badrukk is a HQ (3+, 5++, str 7 AP2 assault 3 gun) , Badrukk has the rules listed for Da Rippa, but it is not listed in his wargear
Snikrot is not HQ, Snikkrot an elite (doesnt take a slot if taken with Kommandos) (shrouded on arrival, you pick an edge to outflank dont roll), causes fear.
No Wazdakka
No Zogwort.
Ghaz is a LOW now, can take runts/squigs, stats look unchaged
D6 Warlord Trait
1 Prophet of the Waaagh!: Mork (or possibly Gork) has chosen this Warlord for greatness, and every Ork under his command knows it.
The Warlord gains the Waaagh! special rule. If the Warlord already has the Waaagh! special rule then, in addition to the usual effects, all friendly models with the ’Ere We Go! special rule gain the Fearless special rule when he calls a Waaagh!, until the start of their next turn.
2 Bellowing Tyrant: This Warlord is an unholy terror, a roaring lunatic whose every (very loud) word is law.
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, re-roll failed Morale checks and Pinning tests.
3 Like a Thunderbolt!: This Warlord is a master of the all-out, no-holds-barred, headlong charge into battle.
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, can re-roll all the dice when determining Run moves or charge range.
4 Brutal but Kunnin’: This Warlord has a sneaky streak a mile wide and knows just where to hit his foes.
The Warlord can re-roll one failed To Hit or To Wound roll each turn.
5 Kunnin’ but Brutal: The Warlord knows when to roll with a punch, and can shrug off the hardest blows.
The Warlord can re-roll one failed armour or invulnerable saving throw each turn.
6 Might is Right: Made of muscle and aggression, this Warlord is the embodiment of the Orks’ warlike nature.
The Warlord receives +1 to the Strength characteristic on his profile.
Power of the Waaagh!
Primaris power is Frazzle (Blast witchfire).
'Eadbanger is now a focussed witchfire.
Warpath is a self blessing
Da jump is what used to be 'ere we go.
Killbolt is a beam attack.
Power vomit is a template witchfire.
Da Krunch is a barrage witchfire.
Mob rule is replaced by the D6 roll on Mob Chart
Mob Chart
D6 Result
1 If the unit is locked in combat, it passes the Morale check or Pinning test. If the unit is not locked in combat, it fails.
2-3 If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
4-6 If the unit has 10 or more models, it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. The hits are Randomly Allocated. If the unit has fewer than 10 models, it fails the Morale check or Pinning test.
Boss Pole gives Reroll on the mob chart.
A Big Mek with mega armour can take one of the following
- Tellyport blasta Tellyporta blasta is the back mouned thing I've been describing and seems... uh, situational at best? Very short range weapon but causes instant death on a 6 wound. Rolling a 6 on AP causes a penetrating hit regardless of AV.
- Kustom force field
- Shock attack gun roll of double 6 is vortex!!!
- KFF can be combined with mega armour and bikes, Shock attack gun seems to be combinable with bikes.
- Git finda on SAG
Relics:
Gifts of Gork and Mork
Da Dead Shiny Shoota 6 shots twinlinked shoota, rolls of 1 hit one of your own units
Da Finkin’ Kap gives your warlord an additional trait from the strategic list.
Da Fixer Upperz
Da Lucky Stikk
Headwoppa’s Killchoppa is a +2 str, AP5, rending choppa that beheads on a roll of 6 (insta death).
Warboss Gazbag’s Blitzbike has an AP3 deff gun on it
Kustom Mega Slugga is a thing.
Buggys don't get new weapons, do get Grot Riggers at 10 points.
Painboy gives 5+ FNP, Cybork Bodies now gives 6+ FNP.
Grot riggers don't just work for IWND on 'nauts, any vehicle that has them, but cost per vehicle seems to differ. 20 to put them on a 'naut. BW don't seem to have the option.
Looks to be a lot more options with selecting wargear for meks
Stompa in as super heavy
Battle Wagon up 20 points.
Killkannon still lowers transport on BW
Attack squig nerfed to 1 reroll in melee per turn
Ramshackle got clobbered.. 6+ save when you take a pen, if successful downgrade to glance
Buggies in units of 5, gained outflank and a minor point decrease.
Rule for planks is a little complicated. If you get out of open topped and declare a charge, add 2 to the charge range
Deffrolla gains AP4 and loses half the hits
Lootas Heavy Support and cheaper (5 points less per squad)
Kans come in 6 packs, NO twin guns, NO Troop choice option, have special morale rule
If you take an Ork Warband detachment, you can Waaaagh every turn after the first
Orks are susceptible to fear now
Tankbustas, are elite, got Tank Hunter, 2 points cheaper per model, and no longer have to shoot at nearest tank, Tankbusta bomb is now a melta bomb, can take a trukk, and get 2 VP for first blood if they blow up a tank.
Stormboyz can NOT assault flyers
Meganobz still bulky and use 2 spots in transport
Kommandos got move through cover, stealth and infiltrate, no point hike
Burnas can take dedicated trukks
Ork boys cost the same, but Shoota is 1 pt ugrade now
Pain Boys can not get 'Eavy Amor
Zzap Gun 2D6, gets hot on a 1-3 if you roll 11 or 12
Kannons and Lobbas unchanged
Cheap IWND on vehicles (5 points on Kans, 10 on dreds)
Dedi transports available for burnas and tank bustas now
Warboss/Bigmek Mega Armor Kit is a thing
thank you ted!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hmmm i dont see where it says who gets 'ere we go!
army wide ork rule?
deffrekka wrote: Can we buy the waaagh! Ghazghkull supplement separate from the warboss edition package? The white dwarf states " these limited editions are available exclusively in this box set - in the case of waaagh! Ghazghkull, this is the only place you'll find the book until the standard edition is released in a couple of weeks time"
so does that mean the supplement will be sold separately on the week of the meganobs release..?
Yes, it's going to be available later as a separate item, although it's not clear exactly when and whether it will be a physical book or just a digital release.
best compilation/summary i've found so far:
including special rules and wargear
thanks to www.belloflostsouls.net
AND Melcavuk ofcourse
Spoiler:
NO FOC SWAPS
Just to clarify, as I am getting a lot of questions about this:
No unit allows other units to change their slot type.
No Bikes as troops, no Dreads as troops, no nobz as troops.
Placing any non troop choice into a troop slot in a Battleforged army is not possible.
ARMY-WIDE RULES
'Ere We Go lets you re-roll 1 charge die.
Waaagh! allows all units with 'Ere We Go to run and and charge in the same turn.
WARBAND FORMATION
So, been going over the Formation for an Ork Warband that's listed, that alone is pretty interesting. You have to take at least 60 boyz (6 units). But as stated previously, with this formation a WAAAGH! can be called every turn after the first.
That's at least 60 Boyz that can run AND charge in the same turn, every turn after the first. And with 'Ere we go they get to reroll one charge die. And this formation gives Hammer of Wrath to every unit over 10 models that has 'Ere we go, providing they roll over 10 for charge range. Looking at the wording, it's roll over 10, not charge over 10. "it successfully charges an enemy unit and the dice rolled for its charge range is 10 or more (before modifiers)".
And for comedy value; the Formation has to have a unit of Gretchin. So technically you get Grots with Hammer of Wrath.
Ork Rules Confirmations - Collated:
Alternate FOC 3 HQ, 9 Troop, 3 Heavy, 3 Fast, 3 Elite. Minimum is 1 HQ 3 TROOP.
This is OPTIONAL instead of the standard FOC, you can still use the core books one.
HQ No Wazdakka, no Zogwort.
Snikkrot- doesn’t take a slot if taken with Kommandos.
Weirdboy- only option is ml 2. +1 charge if there is at least 10 boys or orks with the ere we go rule nearby (this doesnt stack for multiples of 10). Cheaper, and his ml2 is also cheaper. Ork powers and Daemonology.
Frazzle (1 WC, primaris)
Ead Banger (1 WC)
Warpath (1 WC)
Da Jump (1 WC)
Kill Bolt (2 WC) 18 inch str 10 ap 2 beam
Power Vomit (2 WC) Str 7 AP2 template
Da Krusha (2 WC) Str2D6 Large Blast, if you roll a over 10 you hit everything twice at str 10
Warboss- 6* pts. klaw and big choppa same cost. Boss pole allows a reroll on the mob table when you fail morale. Same statline, Slugga, Choppa, Stikkbombs. Can take 'eavy armour, mega armour, TL shoota and PK. May select items from: Ranged weapons list, Melee weapons list, Runts&Squigs list, Orky...
Big mek- gets access to mek gear (kmb, kms, kombis, rokkit, etc), or can take mega armour. Still has relic, shooting weapon, accessories etc access (full list), but can take a kill saw. Non mega big mek can take SAG or KFF (also has bike access in the know wots menu). Mega Mek can take KFF or
HQ Mek is literally the same as a mek in a unit, and must be put into an artillery or infantry unit before start of game.
A Big Mek with mega armour can take one of the following:
- Tellyport blasta
- Kustom force field
ELITE
Nobz- 18 pts. Bikes in the Nob unit are +27 point upgrade. Nob Bikers are the same points as before (but nobs themselves cheaper), Eavy Armour got a point cheaper on the Nobz.
Manz- Kill saw is 10 points for the pair for mega nobz, replaces both weapons.
Waagh banner is 20 pts.
Trukk or Battlewagon for the Mega Nobz. 40 pts/model.
Tank bustas- 65 pts. 2 pts/model cheaper. melta bombs, tank hunter, glory hogs- 2 vps for first blood on a tank, Tankhammer- str 8 AP3, unwieldy. 2 pt decrease/model. Bomb squig- Wargear, str 8 AP 4 can buy up to 3, works same as before, no risk to own unit. No longer have to shoot at nearest tank.
Burna boyz- 75 pts. Unchanged.
Kommandos- Price drop. move through cover, stealth and infiltrate, stikkbombs, no shootas. Can take 2 burnas as one of their special weapons, however they can only take 2 in a mob. May include Snikkrot (doesnt take a slot if taken with Kommandos otherwise HQ) (shrouded on arrival, you pick an edge to outflank dont roll) Snikrot causes fear.
TROOPS
Ork boyz – 6 pts. +1 pt each for shootas. Units can pay for ‘eavy no longer restricted to 1 per army. One in 10 can take special weapon (Same but rokkit cheaper than it used to be). One model may be a Nob, may select from Ranged or Melee weapons list.
Gretchin- Runtherd comes with Grabba stick, can buy squig hound. If the unit breaks the hound causes D3 str 3 hits on the unit, and can then reroll the morale test.
Grot prod can exchange its attacks for a single double strength attack. AP -
Grabba reduces the enemies attacks by one
No special rules, at all
FAST
Stormboyz- For 30 points more than the old mob you get 30 Stormboys now. Jump Infantry, can run 2D6 instead of one but take dangerous terrain tests doing so. No longer blow themselves up.
Zagstruk- 6* pts. Slugga, choppa, eavy, stikkbombs, cybork, rokkit pack. 1 Less Wound, 1 Less Toughness than a Warboss. Hammer of wrath is str 8 AP2. Cant assault from deepstrike but is a HQ choice.
Deffkoptas- 30 pts each, 5 pt reduction. both its gun changes are now free. Other points stay the same
Buggies- 25 points, 5 pt reduction, up to 5, outflank. Skorcha same cost as before, trakk is a 5 point upgrade.
Warbikers- 18 pts, 7 pt reduction, no exhaust save, get +1 cover if they turbo boost now, otherwise no improved cover at all.
Dakkajets and blitza bombas- maxed out burna bommer now costs 180pts with red paint job. A maxed out blitza-Bommer cost 140pts with red paint job.
Dakka jet guns now only fire one more shot than normal on a Waaagh, not everything twice.
Blitza Bombs: 2D6, on a 2 you crash, 3 you and your target take a str 9 AP 2, otherwise you hit, with 12 meaning you can shoot your guns aswell. (str 7 AP2, large blast armour bane, one use only).
Burna Bombs str 5 AP4 large blast ignore cover. Skorcha Missiles str 5 AP4 small blast ignores cover.
HEAVY
Looted wagon- (found in WD not codex). 37 pts, 2 pt increase. 3 weapon upgrades all 5 pts each. Killkannon 30 pts.
Killa Kans- got more expensive. 25% more expensive for the big shoota variant. Kans now panic when 25% have died, if they fail a roll they are all shaken due to the grots freaking out.
Deff Dread- 80 Points, 5 pt increase, comes with 2 big shootas, rokkits are a free exchange. KMB are +5 point Exchange. Riggers are 10 points confer IWND. For the price of an old Deff Dread with 2 x Rokkits you can get a new Deff Dred with 2 x Kustom Mega Blastas and Grot Riggers.
Flash gitz-
Gorka/Morkanaughts- arent assault vehicles and have no options to become one.
DT Trukk- 30 points. 5 pt reduction. Ramshackle- changed, now when you take a penetrating hit roll a D6, on a 6 that hit is now downgraded to a glancing hit. Dedicated transports available for burnas and tank bustas now.
Wreckin ball is a 3 inch range str 9 ap 4 D3 weapon.
Boarding planks- +2" on the charge the turn you disembark from an open topped vehicle with a plank
Deff Rolla- 10 pts. D3 instead of D6 hits now AP 4.
Red paint Job- +1 inch to flat out moves.
LOW
Ghazkul- Same cost, is eternal warrior. His warlord trait makes boyz within 12 inches fearless in a waaagh. Only one waaagh per game unless you are running a specific formation (which ghaz isnt in, so irrelevant sorry)
WARGEAR
Melee Weapons
Klaw- unchanged.
Kill Saws- armour bane.
Choppas- are just CCW.
big choppas- +2 strAP 5.
Ranged Weapons
twinlinked shootas and kombis
Runts & Squigs
surgical grot- reroll fnp ammo runt- reroll shooting to hit
attack squig- reroll cc to hit
grot oiler-
Orky Know-wots
Bike- Painboy's and Warbosses bike is 25 pts, a nob's bike is 27 pts.
Cybork- fnp 6+
Boss pole- reroll chart result.
Gitfinda- BS 3 if stationary.
Waaagh banner- +1 WS.
Zapp gun- 2D6, gets hot on a 1-3 if you roll 11 or 12
KFF- price hasnt changed. KFF is 5++ if embarked than vehicle gets this INSTEAD, explicitly just shooting. KFF can be combined with mega armour and bikes.
Shock attack gun- seems to be combinable with bikes. Double 6 is vortex.
Teleporta Blasta- small blast str 8 ap2, on a 6 its insta death or insta pen.
Grot riggas- IWND (5 points on Kans, 10 on dreds)
Weapons arent exchanged for many of the options on characters, the warboss for example reads "May take items from the Ranged Weapons, Melee Weapons, Runts & Squigs, Orky Know-wots and/or Gifts of Gork and Mork list"
There are other bits that do exchange weapons (taking mega armour for example). Relics are one of each per army (but can take multiple different ones)
RELICS
Da Ded Shiny Shoota - Assault 6 Shoota, twinlinked, rolls of 1 richochet into friendly units.
Lucky Stixx - Can choose to reroll failed hit, wound or saving throws, if 3 of these rerolls fail in a single turn the model is removed.
Warboss Gazbag’s Blitzbike – Bike, Assault 3, AP 3, Str 6 twinlinked shots.
Headwoppa’s Killchoppa - Str +2, AP5, rending, two handed, rolls of 6 are instant death.
Da Finkin Kap - Warlord gets a strategic trait along with his normal warlord trait.
Da Fixer Upperz - repair vehicles on 3+ (hull points, weapon destroyed or immobilised).
ORK OBJECTIVES
Shoot an enemy unit off the board, Kill the enemy warlord in a challenge with your warboss, destroy an enemy unit in your assault phase (more units gone, more points), Turbo boost 3 vehicles (or bike units), secure a random objective (roll a D6), Charge more than 10 inches.
D6 Warlord Trait
1 Prophet of the Waaagh!:
The Warlord gains the Waaagh! special rule. If the Warlord already has the Waaagh! special rule then, in addition to the usual effects, all friendly models with the ’Ere We Go! special rule gain the Fearless special rule when he calls a Waaagh!, until the start of their next turn.
2 Bellowing Tyrant:
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, re-roll failed Morale checks and Pinning tests.
3 Like a Thunderbolt!:
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, can re-roll all the dice when determining Run moves or charge range.
4 Brutal but Kunnin’:
The Warlord can re-roll one failed To Hit or To Wound roll each turn.
5 Kunnin’ but Brutal:
The Warlord can re-roll one failed armour or invulnerable saving throw each turn.
6 Might is Right:
The Warlord receives +1 to the Strength characteristic on his profile.
Mob Rule Chart (name?):
D6 Result
1
If the unit is locked in combat, it passes the Morale check or Pinning test. If the unit is not locked in combat, it fails.
2-3
If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
4-6
If the unit has 10 or more models, it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. The hits are Randomly Allocated. If the unit has fewer than 10 models, it fails the Morale check or Pinning test.
2-3 If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. These hits are Randomly Allocated, but cannot be allocated to Ork characters (any excess hits are lost). If the unit does not include any Ork characters, it fails the Morale check or Pinning tes
-A quick question regarding Waaagh! Is it only warbosses that grant you access to it?
-If so does Zagstruk have it?
-Also can a Waaagh! be called on turn 1?
-Does Zagstruk have the hammer of wrath special rule, or does he only get it from his jump pack (in which case he can only use his power klaw feat if he uses his jump pack in the assault phase)?
-Also does Da Finkin’ Kap let you roll on strategic or pick a warlord trait from strategic?
I can understand why there is alarm regarding the use of Unbound armies, but why are multiple Combined Arms Detachments looked upon with equal reservation? Isn't it intrinsically a part of the "non-Unbound" rule set?
Is this a common perspective for anyone outside of the very vocal (but admittedly minority) Dakka community?
Are players using house rules to ban CAD out of fear of what WAAC will do with such freedom?
If so, that seems like they are only delaying their disappointment.
To me, it seems like the new ork codex was written specifically for using multiple CADs, hence the "Heavy heavy" unit selection and lack of "can be taken as troops" alternatives.
And the ork codex might be the first to embrace multiple CAD, but I'd wager all future codices will follow suit. Unless they are saving troop expansion exceptions for DLC / Data Slates / supplements, which is a possibility, I suspect.
rothrich wrote:What dose the lucky stick do?
What war gear do the regular meks have access too?
Do orks still have furious charge?
Can choose to reroll failed hits, wounds or saves, however if 3 or more of these rerolls also fail in a single turn the model is removed as a casualty.
Mek gear and a kill saw. Along with oilers. mek gear covers all Kombi weapons, Kustom Mega Blastas, Kustom Mega Slugga.
Yes
Nicorex wrote:So is the Stompa still a "LoW superheavy walker" or just a superheavy walker? Can you take it as you would a Knight now?
Lord of War, it now competes with Ghaz in that slot.
deffrekka wrote:Melcavuk, are ammo runts, attack squigs, grot oilers, grot orders one use only? Or is it one re roll per turn?
Attack squig is once a turn, the others are one use only
Does Zagstruk have the hammer of wrath special rule, or does he only get it from his jump pack (in which case he can only use his power klaw feat if he uses his jump pack in the assault phase)
His hammer of wrath attacks are Str 8 AP2, however the actual hammer of wrath is conferred by his jump pack, and thus must be used.
Mushkilla wrote:A quick question regarding Waaagh! Is it only warbosses that grant you access to it? If so does Zagstruk have it? Also can a Waaagh! be called on turn 1?
Also does Da Finkin’ Kap let you roll on strategic or pick a warlord trait from strategic?
Thanks for answering all the questions so far.
Waaagh is once per game, and can be used on Turn 1, however if you run the special formation you can do it every turn, but not on turn 1. Only Ghaz and the non-named Warboss have this rule.
Lets you roll.
Perfect Organism wrote: How do faction-specific objectives work? Do they replace one of the objective categories in the main rulebook? Are they optional?
If your Warlord has the Orks Faction, these Tactical Objectives replace the Capture & Control Tactical Objectives (numbers 11-16) described in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules
The morale check caused due to taking 25% casualties can't create another morale check due to taking 25% casualties.
This is all I'm saying.
.. Which is not what they're saying. They're talking about a pinning test being the initial test which causes the events to trigger, not 25% losses.
Pinning tests don't cause further checks either, as is stated in the results of Mob Rule rolls.
Yes they do, a pinning test will incur casualties that will be counted in to the number (25%) needed for a leadership test later in the turn.
From the leaked book: If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
ARMY-WIDE RULES 'Ere We Go lets you re-roll 1 charge die.
Waaagh! allows all units with 'Ere We Go to run and and charge in the same turn.
WARBAND FORMATION You have to take at least 60 boyz (6 units) and a unit of Gretchin. A WAAAGH! can be called every turn after the first. This formation gives Hammer of Wrath to every unit over 10 models that has 'Ere we go, providing they roll over 10 for charge range.
60+ Boyz that can run AND charge in the same turn, every turn after the first. With 'Ere we go they get to reroll one charge die. The wording, is roll over 10, not charge over 10. "it successfully charges an enemy unit and the dice rolled for its charge range is 10 or more (before modifiers)".
D6 Warlord Trait 1 Prophet of the Waaagh!:Mork (or possibly Gork) has chosen this Warlord for greatness, and every Ork under his command knows it.
The Warlord gains the Waaagh! special rule. If the Warlord already has the Waaagh! special rule then, in addition to the usual effects, all friendly models with the ’Ere We Go! special rule gain the Fearless special rule when he calls a Waaagh!, until the start of their next turn.
2 Bellowing Tyrant: This Warlord is an unholy terror, a roaring lunatic whose every (very loud) word is law.
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, re-roll failed Morale checks and Pinning tests.
3 Like a Thunderbolt!:This Warlord is a master of the all-out, no-holds-barred, headlong charge into battle.
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, can re-roll all the dice when determining Run moves or charge range.
4 Brutal but Kunnin’: This Warlord has a sneaky streak a mile wide and knows just where to hit his foes.
The Warlord can re-roll one failed To Hit or To Wound roll each turn.
5 Kunnin’ but Brutal: The Warlord knows when to roll with a punch, and can shrug off the hardest blows.
The Warlord can re-roll one failed armour or invulnerable saving throw each turn.
6 Might is Right: Made of muscle and aggression, this Warlord is the embodiment of the Orks’ warlike nature.
The Warlord receives +1 to the Strength characteristic on his profile.
Power of the Waaagh! Primaris power is Frazzle (Blast witchfire). 1WC
'Eadbanger is now a focussed witchfire. 1WC
Warpath is a self blessing 1WC
Da jump is what used to be 'ere we go 1WC
Killbolt is a beam attack. 2WC 18" S10 AP2 Beam
Power vomit is a template witchfire. 2WC S7 AP2 Template
Da Krunch is a barrage witchfire. 2WC S2d6 Large Blast, roll over 10 hit everything twice
Mob rule is replaced by the D6 roll on Mob Chart
Mob Chart D6 Result
1 Born to Fight: Orks love fighting, and the prospect of a good punch-up will sometimes stop them from running off
If the unit is locked in combat, it passes the Morale check or Pinning test. If the unit is not locked in combat, it fails.
2-3 Breaking Heads:The mob’s leader knocks a few heads together until the ladz settle down and get back in the fight.
If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
4-6 Squabble:A brawl breaks out as the Orks decide what to do. When the dust settles, nobody can remember what the trouble was about in the first place.
If the unit has 10 or more models, it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. The hits are Randomly Allocated. If the unit has fewer than 10 models, it fails the Morale check or Pinning test.
Ork Characters cannot take wounds from Breaking Eads, so if you have a unit comprised of Ork characters they automatically pass when rolling this results.
Boss Pole - Each time a unit that includes at least one model with a Bosspole rolls on the Mob Rule table, you may choose to re-roll any result other than a Breaking Heads result. You must accept the result of the re-rollt.
Ork Tactical Objectives Shoot an enemy unit off the board,
Kill the enemy warlord in a challenge with your warboss,
Destroy an enemy unit in your assault phase (more units gone, more points)
Turbo boost 3 vehicles (or bike units)
Secure a random objective (roll a D6),
Charge more than 10 inches.
Relics:Gifts of Gork and Mork "Only one of each of the following artefacts may be chosen per army – there is only one of each of these items in the galaxy" Da Dead Shiny Shoota 6 shots twinlinked shoota, rolls of 1 hit one of your own units
Da Finkin’ Kap gives your warlord an additional trait from the strategic list.
Da Fixer Upperz repair vehicles on 3+ (hull points, weapon destroyed or immobilised).
Da Lucky Stikk Can choose to reroll failed hit, wound or saving throws, if 3 of these rerolls fail in a single turn the model is removed 25 pts
Headwoppa’s Killchoppa is a +2 str, AP5, two handed, rending choppa that beheads on a roll of 6 (insta death).
Warboss Gazbag’s Blitzbike Bike, Assault 3, AP 3, Str 6 twinlinked shots.
Zagstruk Bellowing Tyrant, Ld 8, Slugga, choppa, eavy, stikkbombs, cybork, rokkit pack. 1 Less Wound, 1 Less Toughness than a Warboss. Hammer of wrath is str 8 AP2. Cant assault from deepstrike
Grotsnik Brutal but Kunnin .Gives fearless, rampage and FNP MekHQ, 1 per actual HQ bought, has Boy statline, must be put into an artillery or infantry unit before start of game. can take Grot Oiler, Kombi Shootas, Rokkit Launcha, Kustom Mega Blasta, Kustom Mega Slugga, Twinlinked Shoota, Kill Saw
Big Mek does not change FoC "A Big Mek may take items from the Mek Weapons, Melee Weapons, Runts & Squigs, Orky Know-wots and/or Gifts of Gork and Mork lists."
Painboy nob stats, urty/slugga. Confers FNP, is IC, can take a bike, no 'Eavy Armor
Weirdboy. gain a Warp Charge point if there are 10 or more models with the 'ere we go rule (Pretty much any Ork from what I've seen) in 12" but has to take a psychic save or take a hit. Can be upgraded to Psyker level 2. Power of the Waaagh! and Daemonlogy disciplines.
Badrukk is a HQ, Cunning but Brutal , (3+, 5++, str 7 AP2 assault 3 gun) , Badrukk has the rules listed for Da Rippa, but it is not listed in his wargear, LD9
Snikrot is not HQ, Snikkrot an elite (doesnt take a slot if taken with Kommandos) (shrouded on arrival, you pick an edge to outflank dont roll), causes fear.
Warboss does not change FoC, klaw and big choppa same cost. Boss pole, Same statline, Slugga, Choppa, Stikkbombs. Can take 'eavy armour, mega armour, TL shoota and PK. May select items from: Ranged weapons list, Melee weapons list, Runts&Squigs list, Orky...
No Wazdakka
No Zogwort.
Ghazkul Same cost, is eternal warrior. His warlord trait, Prophet of the Waaagh, makes boyz within 12 inches fearless in a waaagh. Only one waaagh per game, LOW now, can take runts/squigs, stats look unchaged
A Big Mek with mega armour can take one of the following
- Tellyport blasta Tellyporta blasta is the back mouned thing I've been describing and seems... uh, situational at best? Very short range weapon but causes instant death on a 6 wound. Rolling a 6 on AP causes a penetrating hit regardless of AV.
- Kustom force field
- Shock attack gun roll of double 6 is vortex!!!
- KFF can be combined with mega armour and bikes, Shock attack gun seems to be combinable with bikes.
- Git finda on SAG
None of the rumored army wide FNP at all
Orks kept furious charge, are susceptible to fear now
Meganobz still bulky and use 2 spots in transport
Kommandos got move through cover, stealth and infiltrate, no point hike
Ork boys Slugga boy is 6, Shoota boy is 7. Both come with stikkbombs as standard.
Lootas Heavy Support and cheaper (5 points less per squad)
Deffkoptaz 30 Points base, gun swaps are free, still a jetbike.
Buggies 25 points base, gun swap is free, up to 5, can outflank, don't get new weapons, do get Grot Riggers at 10 points.
Zzap Gun 2D6, gets hot on a 1-3 if you roll 11 or 12
Kannons unchanged
Lobbas unchanged
Stompa in as super heavy
Battle Wagon up 20 points.
Kustom Mega Slugga is a thing.
Grot riggers don't just work for IWND on 'nauts, any vehicle that has them, but cost per vehicle seems to differ. 20 to put them on a 'naut. BW don't seem to have the option.
Killkannon 24 inch, STR7 ap3, large blast, Ordinance, still lowers transport on BW
Attack squig nerfed to 1 reroll in melee per turn
Ramshackle got clobbered.. 6+ save when you take a pen, if successful downgrade to glance
Planks Rules a little complicated. If you get out of open topped and declare a charge, add 2 to the charge range
Deffrolla gains AP4 and loses half the hits
ELITE
Nobz- 18 pts. Bikes in the Nob unit are +27 point upgrade. Nob Bikers are the same points as before (but nobs themselves cheaper), Eavy Armour got a point cheaper on the Nobz.
Manz- Kill saw is 10 points for the pair for mega nobz, replaces both weapons.
Waagh banner is 20 pts.
Trukk or Battlewagon for the Mega Nobz. 40 pts/model.
Tankbustas Elite, 65 pts. 2 pts/model cheaper. melta bombs, tank hunter, glory hogs- 2 vps for first blood on a tank, Tankhammer- str 8 AP3, unwieldy. 2 pt decrease/model. Bomb squig- Wargear, str 8 AP 4 can buy up to 3, works same as before, no risk to own unit. No longer have to shoot at nearest tank.
Tank Bustas Big Nob has access to Melee weapon list but cant actually take anything, Reasoning: Big Nob in Tank Busta unit is armed with Rokkit Launcha, Stick bombz, Tankbusta Bombz.
Melee weapon list: "A Model can replace their MELEE weapon with one of the following" So yes they can access the list, but have nothing to exchange to get a weapon
Burnas can take dedicated trukks , 75 pts. Unchanged.
Kommandos- Price drop. move through cover, stealth and infiltrate, stikkbombs, no shootas. Can take 2 burnas as one of their special weapons, however they can only take 2 in a mob. May include Snikkrot (doesnt take a slot if taken with Kommandos otherwise HQ) (shrouded on arrival, you pick an edge to outflank dont roll) Snikrot causes fear.
TROOPS
Ork boyz – 6 pts. +1 pt each for shootas. Units can pay for ‘eavy no longer restricted to 1 per army. One in 10 can take special weapon (Same but rokkit cheaper than it used to be). One model may be a Nob, may select from Ranged or Melee weapons list.
Gretchin- Runtherd comes with Grabba stick, can buy squig hound. If the unit breaks the hound causes D3 str 3 hits on the unit, and can then reroll the morale test.
Grot prod can exchange its attacks for a single double strength attack. AP -
Grabba reduces the enemies attacks by one
No special rules, at all
FAST
Stormboyz can NOT assault flyers. Jump Infantry, can run 2D6 instead of one but take dangerous terrain tests doing so. No longer blow themselves up.
Deffkoptas- 30 pts each, 5 pt reduction. both its gun changes are now free. Other points stay the same
Buggies- 25 points, 5 pt reduction, up to 5, outflank. Skorcha same cost as before, trakk is a 5 point upgrade.
Warbikers- 18 pts, 7 pt reduction, no exhaust save, get +1 cover if they turbo boost now, otherwise no improved cover at all.
Blitza bombas- maxed out burna bommer now costs 180pts with red paint job. A maxed out blitza-Bommer cost 140pts with red paint job.
Dakka jet - guns now only fire one more shot than normal on a Waaagh, not everything twice.
Blitza Bombs: 2D6, on a 2 you crash, 3 you and your target take a str 9 AP 2, otherwise you hit, with 12 meaning you can shoot your guns aswell. (str 7 AP2, large blast armour bane, one use only).
Burna Bombsstr 5 AP4 large blast ignore cover. Skorcha Missiles str 5 AP4 small blast ignores cover.
HEAVY
Looted wagon- (found in WD not codex). 37 pts, 2 pt increase. 3 weapon upgrades all 5 pts each. Killkannon 30 pts.
Kans come in 6 packs, NO twin guns, NO Troop choice option, more expensive. 25% more expensive for the big shoota variant. , have special morale rule, test for panic when 25% have died, bouns for numbers and Deff Dread nearby, shaken if they fail.
Kan Klaw +2S AP2
Deff Dread- 80 Points, 5 pt increase, comes with 2 big shootas, rokkits are a free exchange. KMB are +5 point Exchange. Riggers are 10 points confer IWND. For the price of an old Deff Dread with 2 x Rokkits you can get a new Deff Dred with 2 x Kustom Mega Blastas and Grot Riggers. Deff Dreads can NOT be taken in squadrons
has 2 Power Klaws x2S Ap2, unwieldy, specialist weapon.
Flash gitz-
Gorka/Morkanaughts NOT assault vehicles, and have no options to become one.
Dedicated Transports
Trukk- 30 points. 5 pt reduction. Ramshackle- changed, now when you take a penetrating hit roll a D6, on a 6 that hit is now downgraded to a glancing hit. Dedicated transports available for burnas and tank bustas now.
Wreckin ball is a 3 inch range str 9 ap 4 D3 weapon.
Boarding planks- +2" on the charge the turn you disembark from an open topped vehicle with a plank
Deff Rolla- 10 pts. D3 instead of D6 hits now AP 4.
Red paint Job- +1 inch to flat out moves.
Lords Of War
WARGEAR Melee Weapons
Klaw- unchanged.
Killsaws armour bane. Meks and Mega Nobz can take Killsaws (not buzz saws), which are armour bane power klaws. Normal nobz, and nobz in units do not have access to these. Points cost varies (mega nobz pay 10 points to exchange both weapons for a pair of killsaws, Meks pay 20 to turn their choppas into a normal kill saw
Choppas- are just CCW.
big choppas- +2 strAP 5.
Ranged Weapons twinlinked shootas and kombis
Runts & Squigs surgical grot- reroll fnp ammo runt- reroll shooting to hit
attack squig- reroll cc to hit
grot oiler-
Orky Know-wots Bike- Painboy's and Warbosses bike is 25 pts, a nob's bike is 27 pts.
Cybork- fnp 6+
Gitfinda- BS 3 if stationary.
Waaagh! Banner All models in a unit add +1 to the Weapon Skill characteristic on their profile.
Zapp gun- 2D6, gets hot on a 1-3 if you roll 11 or 12
KFF- price hasnt changed. KFF is 5++ if embarked than vehicle gets this INSTEAD, explicitly just shooting. KFF can be combined with mega armour and bikes.
Shock attack gun- seems to be combinable with bikes. Double 6 is vortex.
Teleporta Blasta- small blast str 8 ap2, on a 6 its insta death or insta pen.
Grot riggas- IWND (5 points on Kans, 10 on dreds)
Weapons arent exchanged for many of the options on characters, the warboss for example reads "May take items from the Ranged Weapons, Melee Weapons, Runts & Squigs, Orky Know-wots and/or Gifts of Gork and Mork list"
There are other bits that do exchange weapons (taking mega armour for example). Relics are one of each per army (but can take multiple different ones)
Cheap IWND on vehicles (5 points on Kans, 10 on dreds)
Warboss/Bigmek Mega Armor Kit is a thing
Looted Wagons exclusive to White Dwarf
Big meks (non mega armour) with KFF cant take any non-relic ranged weapons. Reasoning:
KFF Replaces Slugga
Mek Weapons says "A model can replace their RANGED weapon with one of the following"
So no KMB or KMS on a non mega Big Mek
A few notable groups from Da Red Waaaagh:
Skullcrakka Boyz - these Skull-Nobz covered in scars and trophies from their many victories
Wasteland Warbikerz
Splitgrin Dakkajets
Baddfrags Looted Wagons
Wingnutz Flyboyz
Big Red da Warphead
Goffboss Drogg
Mogroks Big Gunz
- HQ mek is 15 points, his killsaw 30.
- Loota/Burna mek is 16 points, his killsaw 20!
- Big Mek in MA comes with KMB instead of TL-Shoota
- Big Mek in MA trades the KMB for a killsaw, not the PK - Big Mek in MA does not need to trade away anything for the KFF (without MA trades slugga)
- Painboy can take bike and BP, no Waaagh! banner or relics
- Nob upgrade is same points as before
- Units of more than 12 orks can still buy a trukk
- All Manz can take boss poles, cannot take Waaagh! Banner
- Snikrot's has fear, can still arrive from any board edge, his shroud replaces stealth
- Snikrot's shroud also works when deploying him turn 1.
- Trukk is 30 points
- Blitza and Burna bommer have BS3 for their shootas
- Blitza Bommer hits rear armor with shootas when rolling 10-12 for bomb drop
- Lootaz can have trukks
- Kustom Mega Slugga is S8 AP2 pistol, Get's hot!
- SAG kills ONLY the mek, not half your army
- SAG is S10 vortex
- None of the mek gunz state that the whole unit has to roll once for strength/ap - all other models with similar rules do!
- Tellporta-Blasta is 12", so it might potentially scatter back on the mek itself, instantly killing him.
- Failed repairs no longer shake the vehicle
- A vehicle with a deff rolla treats its front armour as two higher than normal when Ramming. In addition, if an enemy unit makes a Death or Glory attack on a vehicle with a deff rolla and fails to stop it, then the unit suffers D3 Strength 10 AP4 hits in addition to the damage they normally suffer for the failed attack. Furthermore, a vehicle with a deff rolla can re-roll failed Dangerous Terrain tests. Bye-bye good old friend -Exact wording Lukky Stikk:
All models in the bearer’s unit add +1 to the Weapon Skill characteristic on their profile (this is not cumulative with the bonus from a Waaagh! banner). In addition, the bearer can choose to re-roll any failed To Hit or To Wound rolls or saving throws that they make. However, should three or more of the re-rolls generate failed results in the same turn, the model is immediately removed as a casualty with no saving throws of any kind allowed. - Da Dead Shiney Shoota is twin-linked and only 5 points. Only hits friendly models within 6", can hit own unit. Awesome upgrade for KFF meks?
- Da Krunch hits again when your roll 11 or 12. You roll again for that hit, and keep getting hits until you don't roll 11 or 12. Fluff-wise this is a giant green fist comming out of the sky and punching the target unit.
Kans are Packing Kan Klaw and Big Shoota in their 50 point base. +2 STR AP2 klaw, big shoota being big shoota. (Str 7 Total)
Death Rolla is "A vehicle with a deff rolla treats its front armour as two higher than normal when Ramming. In addition, if an enemy unit makes a Death or Glory attack on a vehicle with a deff rolla and fails to stop it, then the unit suffers D3 Strength 10 AP4 hits in addition to the damage they normally suffer for the failed attack. Furthermore, a vehicle with a deff rolla can re-roll failed Dangerous Terrain test"
Multimoog wrote: From the leaked book: If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
How does that in any way prevent you from taking a morale test from 25% casualties at the end of the phase?
The morale check caused due to taking 25% casualties can't create another morale check due to taking 25% casualties.
This is all I'm saying.
.. Which is not what they're saying. They're talking about a pinning test being the initial test which causes the events to trigger, not 25% losses.
Pinning tests don't cause further checks either, as is stated in the results of Mob Rule rolls.
Yes they do, a pinning test will incur casualties that will be counted in to the number (25%) needed for a leadership test later in the turn.
From the leaked book: If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
Exactly! it passes the pinning test but incure casualties, potentially leading to a morale test with further casualties
Yeah, the morale table looks very painful. On first reading it, I'm expecting every small squad to get wiped of the table by it's own nob the first time they take shooting attacking. :( Hopefully an faq deals with some of our concerns.
The Good Green wrote: Yeah, the morale table looks very painful. On first reading it, I'm expecting every small squad to get wiped of the table by it's own nob the first time they take shooting attacking. :( Hopefully an faq deals with some of our concerns.
You have to fail the morale check, and its hits, not wounds, so only half of the D6 will be wounds, so on average you're looking at 1.5 wounds, and you still get your 6+ t-shirt save that probably reduces that a tiny bit more.
Oestergaard wrote:Is Blitza-Bombs Blast or Large Blast?
Large blast, armourbane
The Good Green wrote:Yeah, the morale table looks very painful. On first reading it, I'm expecting every small squad to get wiped of the table by it's own nob the first time they take shooting attacking. :( Hopefully an faq deals with some of our concerns.
I dunno, using Ard boys as an example.
They take D6 hits (3 or 4 on average)
Half wound (1.5 or 2)
Half save (0.75 or 1)
So one might die to the nob punching him, on average. Obviously for a squad with worse armour its closer to 2 die. Which again isnt great but they wont be wiping themselves out.
From the summary - Snikrot is not HQ, Snikkrot an elite (doesnt take a slot if taken with Kommandos) (shrouded on arrival, you pick an edge to outflank dont roll), causes fear.
So does he have outflank now or still his owm special ambush rule?
A new method for killing Ork mobs will be mass pinning weapons it seems. Force lots of leadership tests, hope they start to kill each other on top of the wounds you're causing. End of the turn if they've taken 25% casualties then they can potentially end up taking a couple more thanks to Mob Rule.
A Town Called Malus wrote: A new method for killing Ork mobs will be mass pinning weapons it seems. Force lots of leadership tests, hope they start to kill each other on top of the wounds you're causing. End of the turn if they've taken 25% casualties then they can potentially end up taking a couple more thanks to Mob Rule.
I would see pinning weapons as a disaster for Orks because it forces all units in the codex to roll on the animosity chart including elite units, most of which have mere 6+ saves...
Mister Feral wrote: So you can take Snikrot as an Elite on his own? Cool, always liked that model but not over-fussed on Kommandos generally.
You can though its questionable as to how effective he'd be. He cant join any units other than kommandos so he'd just kind of... be there. He only has stikkbombz and knives with shred so its not like he could pull a marbo either.
Thanks. I'm guessing that under the current rules, outflank isn't something he can confer on a unit that doesn't already have it.
It'd be impossible for him to do so, since he cant join anyone other than Kommandos. And cannot use his special rule if an IC that isnt a Kommando joins the unit.
The morale check caused due to taking 25% casualties can't create another morale check due to taking 25% casualties.
This is all I'm saying.
.. Which is not what they're saying. They're talking about a pinning test being the initial test which causes the events to trigger, not 25% losses.
Pinning tests don't cause further checks either, as is stated in the results of Mob Rule rolls.
Pinning tests themselves do not cause a further morale check, however because of the wounds Mob Rule causes its quite possible you will need a morale check.
You morale check after losing 25% of the unit that was there at the start of the phase (pg57 BRB). In addition to the wounds that caused the pinning test, the D6 wounds could easily push you over the 25% threshold and force a morale check at the end of the phase. Thats why its horrendous to give this to orks, or boyz die so flippin easy you LOOK at our units we will need a leadership now, and any weapon that causes pinning WILL pin because we have no armor that can ignore any weapons that have pinning.
Unless Mob Rule itself says wounds caused by the Mob Chart do not confer to checking if a normal Morale check is needed after a pinning test, or is FAQ'd to do so, yes you can indeed roll on that chart twice in a single phase.
A Town Called Malus wrote: A new method for killing Ork mobs will be mass pinning weapons it seems. Force lots of leadership tests, hope they start to kill each other on top of the wounds you're causing. End of the turn if they've taken 25% casualties then they can potentially end up taking a couple more thanks to Mob Rule.
I would see pinning weapons as a disaster for Orks because it forces all units in the codex to roll on the animosity chart including elite units, most of which have mere 6+ saves...
Are people forgetting that they have to fail the leadership test before rolling on animosity?
Also, pinning is a lot less common now that sniper and barrage weapons lost it.
Mister Feral wrote: So you can take Snikrot as an Elite on his own? Cool, always liked that model but not over-fussed on Kommandos generally.
You can though its questionable as to how effective he'd be. He cant join any units other than kommandos so he'd just kind of... be there. He only has stikkbombz and knives with shred so its not like he could pull a marbo either.
Thanks. I'm guessing that under the current rules, outflank isn't something he can confer on a unit that doesn't already have it.
It'd be impossible for him to do so, since he cant join anyone other than Kommandos. And cannot use his special rule if an IC that isnt a Kommando joins the unit.
So he can't even be used for his old party trick of delivering Ghaz or a biker boss into your opponent's deployment zone. I guess he's staying on the shelf.
But he doesn't replace the nob, so you get a double whack in your kommandos, easily getting line breaker and those sneaky objectives. Not to mention shrouded so in ruins his unit is on a 2+ for one turn which isn't bad
Automatically Appended Next Post: + kommandos are the best looking ork models ever especially when combined with the FW conversion ones! Gas mask woooo
A Town Called Malus wrote: A new method for killing Ork mobs will be mass pinning weapons it seems. Force lots of leadership tests, hope they start to kill each other on top of the wounds you're causing. End of the turn if they've taken 25% casualties then they can potentially end up taking a couple more thanks to Mob Rule.
I would see pinning weapons as a disaster for Orks because it forces all units in the codex to roll on the animosity chart including elite units, most of which have mere 6+ saves...
Are people forgetting that they have to fail the leadership test before rolling on animosity?
Also, pinning is a lot less common now that sniper and barrage weapons lost it.
Yeah I don't seem to get pinning checks all that often. Maybe I don't play opponents with stuff that causes them.
The posts about not wanting to be forced to use an unbound list or multiple detachments seem strange to me. As of 7th edition, those are part of the game. It is like saying I am going to play basketball without shooting 3 pointers because the 3 point shot is OP. Well ok, if you feel that way knock yourself out, but it IS part of the rule set like it or not, so don't get upset at people who are willing to try it first.
A Town Called Malus wrote: A new method for killing Ork mobs will be mass pinning weapons it seems. Force lots of leadership tests, hope they start to kill each other on top of the wounds you're causing. End of the turn if they've taken 25% casualties then they can potentially end up taking a couple more thanks to Mob Rule.
I would see pinning weapons as a disaster for Orks because it forces all units in the codex to roll on the animosity chart including elite units, most of which have mere 6+ saves...
Are people forgetting that they have to fail the leadership test before rolling on animosity?
Also, pinning is a lot less common now that sniper and barrage weapons lost it.
so mass pinnning is their weakness? OH NOES! good thing there is only one codex right now that actually has pinning weapons in any number....
failing ld 7-8, and failing TWO rolls on the animosity chart with boss pole, esp considering there are things that let us re roll LD too, is NOT going to happen often...
heck, its much easier to pin any other ld 7-8 unit then orks... so why all the QQ about being pinned with orks now? if pinning isnt an issue for my guard, its not an issue for orks.
A Town Called Malus wrote: A new method for killing Ork mobs will be mass pinning weapons it seems. Force lots of leadership tests, hope they start to kill each other on top of the wounds you're causing. End of the turn if they've taken 25% casualties then they can potentially end up taking a couple more thanks to Mob Rule.
I would see pinning weapons as a disaster for Orks because it forces all units in the codex to roll on the animosity chart including elite units, most of which have mere 6+ saves...
Are people forgetting that they have to fail the leadership test before rolling on animosity?
Also, pinning is a lot less common now that sniper and barrage weapons lost it.
Yeah I don't seem to get pinning checks all that often. Maybe I don't play opponents with stuff that causes them.
The posts about not wanting to be forced to use an unbound list or multiple detachments seem strange to me. As of 7th edition, those are part of the game. It is like saying I am going to play basketball without shooting 3 pointers because the 3 point shot is OP. Well ok, if you feel that way knock yourself out, but it IS part of the rule set like it or not, so don't get upset at people who are willing to try it first.
the downside of using unbound lists is while it merely makes orks playable, it boosts other army combos to such extreme heights that you are even more out powered. Also you cant contest objectives, and have to win with a table if they get objective points. Even multiple FOC is a cop out. Usually you end up needing like 4 heavy support, well now you have to do another force org chart. What if you only budgeted points for 3 troops choices? Cant use nobs or deff dreads anymore, so now you have to try and shave off points for grots to fill your requirement. Its like back in 3rd when they had 25 precent of your list required to be troops. People complained and they dropped it for the next edition. Its taking choices away which they said they weren't about anymore.
A Town Called Malus wrote: A new method for killing Ork mobs will be mass pinning weapons it seems. Force lots of leadership tests, hope they start to kill each other on top of the wounds you're causing. End of the turn if they've taken 25% casualties then they can potentially end up taking a couple more thanks to Mob Rule.
I would see pinning weapons as a disaster for Orks because it forces all units in the codex to roll on the animosity chart including elite units, most of which have mere 6+ saves...
Are people forgetting that they have to fail the leadership test before rolling on animosity?
Also, pinning is a lot less common now that sniper and barrage weapons lost it.
so mass pinnning is their weakness? OH NOES! good thing there is only one codex right now that actually has pinning weapons in any number....
failing ld 7-8, and failing TWO rolls on the animosity chart with boss pole, esp considering there are things that let us re roll LD too, is NOT going to happen often...
heck, its much easier to pin any other ld 7-8 unit then orks... so why all the QQ about being pinned with orks now? if pinning isnt an issue for my guard, its not an issue for orks.
First you will never want to use the rokkit boys 2d6 run. Why you ask? Because the average on 2d6 is 7, one whole inch more then you would regularly get on a run. At the cost of one in 6 of your guys dying. You would feel pretty dumb for rolling 2d6 with a 30 man squad, ending up with 5, and losing 6 guys as casualties for your trouble.
Second, what grants us leadership rerolls? Boss poles grant rerolls on the stupid new mob chart. And the lucky strike stick only works for one guy and only on failed to hit, to wound, or saves.
I agree, Ere We ago on so many models is huge. Coupled with the ability to use it every turn. With 5pt Boyz. And with Boarding Planks it's 2" extra. And those Boyz may have 5++/5+++.
Orks are now fast and potentially more resilient. And Wierdboyz should have access to Daemonology, who wouldn't want Hammerhand or Sanctuary Orks?
I really think we need the Dex in hand to fully understand what the Army is capable of. Not just the limited snippets we've gotten so far.
No first reads or limited amounts of information really tell us what a Codex is capable of.
Melcavuk wrote: Definately says strength 7 in both the gun entry and weapon summary page.
No worries there Mel, i just got really tired of reading the same info over and over again and people who didn´t know how to read up on the thread.
Sorry, I came across as needlessly sensitive there, I'm multitasking between painting reading and posting so half the time i'm not paying full attention to what I'm typing
What are the command benefits of this detachment if any.
Rerollable warlord trait.
Any unit of 10 or more models that rolls 10 or more on their charge move before modifiers gains hammer of wrath. Only the starting model count is required to be over 10 when declaring the charge (so if you lose 2 to overwatch dropping you under 10 you still get hammer of wrath)
Zagman wrote: I agree, Ere We ago on so many models is huge. Coupled with the ability to use it every turn. With 5pt Boyz. And with Boarding Planks it's 2" extra. And those Boyz may have 5++/5+++.
Orks are now fast and potentially more resilient. And Wierdboyz should have access to Daemonology, who wouldn't want Hammerhand or Sanctuary Orks?
I really think we need the Dex in hand to fully understand what the Army is capable of. Not just the limited snippets we've gotten so far.
No first reads or limited amounts of information really tell us what a Codex is capable of.
Shoota Boyz are 7 points. You would do well to read those "snippets" which by the way are pulled directly from a copy of the dex.
You're not getting 5++/5+++. I don't even know what that is. KFF used to be units within 6", now it's models within 6" and it doesn't measure from the hull of a vehicle once embarked. It also doesn't work in close combat and it costs the same as it did before. FNP gives you 5+, which makes that a viable option but you have to put a Painboy in the squad and obviously it only affects the squad in which you place the Painboy.
So if you have 6 squads of boyz, they're simply not getting 5++/5+++, whatever that is.
Zagman wrote: I agree, Ere We ago on so many models is huge. Coupled with the ability to use it every turn. With 5pt Boyz. And with Boarding Planks it's 2" extra. And those Boyz may have 5++/5+++.
Orks are now fast and potentially more resilient. And Wierdboyz should have access to Daemonology, who wouldn't want Hammerhand or Sanctuary Orks?
I really think we need the Dex in hand to fully understand what the Army is capable of. Not just the limited snippets we've gotten so far.
No first reads or limited amounts of information really tell us what a Codex is capable of.
Shoota Boyz are 7 points. You would do well to read those "snippets" which by the way are pulled directly from a copy of the dex.
You're not getting 5++/5+++. I don't even know what that is. KFF used to be units within 6", now it's models within 6" and it doesn't measure from the hull of a vehicle once embarked. It also doesn't work in close combat and it costs the same as it did before. FNP gives you 5+, which makes that a viable option but you have to put a Painboy in the squad and obviously it only affects the squad in which you place the Painboy.
So if you have 6 squads of boyz, they're simply not getting 5++/5+++, whatever that is.
So I imagined reading Boyz cost 1pt less and Shoota is a 1pt Upgrade. Nope. It's still there jackass.
Yes, KFF is within 6", which is still a decent area of coverage, no longer what it was, but not terrible. Pain booze are ICs so FNP is doable.
Zagman wrote: I agree, Ere We ago on so many models is huge. Coupled with the ability to use it every turn. With 5pt Boyz. And with Boarding Planks it's 2" extra. And those Boyz may have 5++/5+++.
Orks are now fast and potentially more resilient. And Wierdboyz should have access to Daemonology, who wouldn't want Hammerhand or Sanctuary Orks?
I really think we need the Dex in hand to fully understand what the Army is capable of. Not just the limited snippets we've gotten so far.
No first reads or limited amounts of information really tell us what a Codex is capable of.
Shoota Boyz are 7 points. You would do well to read those "snippets" which by the way are pulled directly from a copy of the dex.
You're not getting 5++/5+++. I don't even know what that is. KFF used to be units within 6", now it's models within 6" and it doesn't measure from the hull of a vehicle once embarked. It also doesn't work in close combat and it costs the same as it did before. FNP gives you 5+, which makes that a viable option but you have to put a Painboy in the squad and obviously it only affects the squad in which you place the Painboy.
So if you have 6 squads of boyz, they're simply not getting 5++/5+++, whatever that is.
So I imagined reading Boyz cost 1pt less and Shoota is a 1pt Upgrade. Nope. It's still there jackass.
Yes, KFF is within 6", which is still a decent area of coverage, no longer what it was, but not terrible. Pain booze are ICs so FNP is doable.
slugga boys are 6 points, shoota boys are 7, not sure where your getting 5 points. They do come with stikkbombs standard now.
Melcavuk wrote: Boyz are 6 pts for slugga, 7 for shoota. the "savin" is that stikkbombz are new free.
Koptas dropped 5 pints, rokkits is a free switch, and kept scout and hit'n'run
So, in regards to free - sorry, "free" stikkbombz, does that work out to them being usable? I know that Orks are still throwing them last with most armies due to low Initiative, but wouldn't that still even out due to larger numbers? Assuming I can get a mob of, say, 20 sluggas charging into CC against 10 MEQ, wouldn't I still be doing some decent damage?
Melcavuk wrote: Boyz are 6 pts for slugga, 7 for shoota. the "savin" is that stikkbombz are new free.
Koptas dropped 5 pints, rokkits is a free switch, and kept scout and hit'n'run
Then the first post in incorrect, which makes just about everything else suspect. Until I see a legit codex in my hands I'm reserving judgement.
So a mistype in summary invalidates the codex open on my screen?
No, but not having legitimate information on front of me means I'm not going to trust some random person on the internet because I don't have reliable information. You are welcome to think, believe, and write off anything you wish.
Why do you care if I reserve judgement on a Codex until I actually get to read it?
Here's a quick list of things I see that have potential, in no particular order.
1. Super cheap warbuggies being a front line screen to soak up fire power and if you get to go first a quick alpha strike that can tag and kill MEQ, pop a rhino, throw some damage on dreads, etc. At their new cost, just absorbing 1 whole turn of fire power is nice.
2. Painboyz in general giving things that couldn't get FNP before FNP, but also in big boyz squads combined with either a KFF mek or ARD boyz. This means our boyz could have 5++ invul and 5+ FNP or 4+ armor and 5+ FNP. That is a big deal on 30 models compared to almost never getting to use a 6+ armor save.
3. New Unit combinations of Boyz (troops) supported by Tankbustas (elite) supported by Lootas (Heavy support) supported by the previously mentioned super cheap warbuggies (Fast attack). Boyz and Lootas are a good spread of high volume dakka while the Tankbusters and Buggies offer a large amount of S8, AP3, Rokkits, which in the buggies case are twin linked. I think a lot of people are underrating tankbustas just because they were so unplayable with their stupid special rule before.
4. Kind of covered a bit already but just how cheap Rokkits are now and how many units have access to them. It's possible to make a list that will just SHRED MEQ in power armor AND anything in the 10-12 AV range and of course with enough Rokkits you can still threaten AV13-14. A Battlewagon with it's own rokkits and a full load of tankbustas seems like it could be a thing.
5. Charging / Assault will not only be giving us more range but will be way more reliable with Ere we go and the old Waaaaagh!! back, and if you go the vehicle route boarding planks, etc. Yes I realize 6th/7th are shooting additions but at the end of the day if orks can charge something they probably should. There's nothing that says you can't shoot um up on the way and then charge! We'll just be able to do it better than before.
First you will never want to use the rokkit boys 2d6 run. Why you ask? Because the average on 2d6 is 7, one whole inch more then you would regularly get on a run. At the cost of one in 6 of your guys dying. You would feel pretty dumb for rolling 2d6 with a 30 man squad, ending up with 5, and losing 6 guys as casualties for your trouble.
Second, what grants us leadership rerolls? Boss poles grant rerolls on the stupid new mob chart. And the lucky strike stick only works for one guy and only on failed to hit, to wound, or saves.
actually, first of all, 2d6 is a 7" average roll, it is awesome, the average roll of ONE dice is NOT 6" its 3.5"...
its not 1" more, its literally twice the average roll...so if you keep missing that basic principle of math it shows your lack of understanding of basic math, let alone lack understanding tactics of how to use this bonus to your advantage...
where as before we ALWAYS lost a guy on a 1, now we can pick and choose when to take the risk, we still only lose a guy on a 1, and get a save...
before, those rokkit boys got 12" +d6, and died on a one... with NO waaagh bonus.. and no charging after running,
now they move 12" +up to 2d6 run IF we want to risk losing guys on 1's, AND we get to run AND charge AND get to reroll a charge dice... that is a BUFF no matter how you cut it...
losing a few more boys, who just took a 30% price cut, is inconsequential to gaining a huge increase in threat range...
*sarcasm* OH noes! i loose an extra 6 pts of guys to dangerous terrain to get my guys into combat turn 1 or two, Id much rather lose the whole unit to shooting instead and not get into close combat to only lose 1-2 orks instead of 3-4, even though they are 30% cheaper...*/sarcasm*
if you are going to cry over losing a few of the free boys you just got from the rokkit boys pts decrease, dont run, its still a huge buff to rokkit boys they still move the same distance, ...
now you move 12" + d6 +2d6 to charge WITH a reroll on charge, before it was 12+d6+2d6 and die on ones.. so again, 100% buff, no negatives AT ALL...
warlord trait allows rerolls. even without re rolls, guard or any other ld 7 infantry will fail pinning checks MORE often then ld 7 orks with boss poles, so if you are not QQ'ing about IG ect dieing to pinning, a rule that is basically non existent in games, then just keep quite about it affecting orks as a game killer, because its simply not the threat you think it is.
This may be more tactics than rumours, but there are lots of ideas being hypothesized about in here, so what about this?
Use the special FOC to take 3 Painboy HQ's and 3 30-strong units of Ork Boyz for Troops.
Place 1 Painboy in each unit of Ork Boyz. You would then have 90 Ork Boyz with FNP.
Then take 2 two Morkanauts with KFF's.
Place 1 Morkanaut between each unit of Ork Boyz. Their KFF's should cover each unit of Ork Boyz.
Then take 1 Mek (slotless HQ, right? ...and 1 per HQ bought, right? So that gives you access to 3, but you would need only 2) to put in each Morkanaut to repair Hull Points.
You would then have 90 Ork Boyz with FNP and an invulnerable save, plus 2 self-repairing Morkanauts (with S10 AP 1 close combat weapons and S8 AP 2 blast weapons, by the way). That sounds kind of better than last edition, right?
After all of that, you should still have about 500 points to play with in a 2,000 points list. I guess you would want one more thing that is similar in AV to a Morkanaut to draw more fire, and some fast objective grabbers. The points in this list would definitely be stretched to their limit.
A Town Called Malus wrote: A new method for killing Ork mobs will be mass pinning weapons it seems. Force lots of leadership tests, hope they start to kill each other on top of the wounds you're causing. End of the turn if they've taken 25% casualties then they can potentially end up taking a couple more thanks to Mob Rule.
I would see pinning weapons as a disaster for Orks because it forces all units in the codex to roll on the animosity chart including elite units, most of which have mere 6+ saves...
Are people forgetting that they have to fail the leadership test before rolling on animosity?
Also, pinning is a lot less common now that sniper and barrage weapons lost it.
Yeah I don't seem to get pinning checks all that often. Maybe I don't play opponents with stuff that causes them.
The posts about not wanting to be forced to use an unbound list or multiple detachments seem strange to me. As of 7th edition, those are part of the game. It is like saying I am going to play basketball without shooting 3 pointers because the 3 point shot is OP. Well ok, if you feel that way knock yourself out, but it IS part of the rule set like it or not, so don't get upset at people who are willing to try it first.
You cant see any problems with unbound? There are large amounts of units that are, point for point, much much better than anything in the ork codex (new or old), starting with unbound will just ruin the last little balance that exists.
I cant even begin to understand why people Think unbound is a good idea, we played like that 25 years ago.
Mob Chart
D6 Result
1 Born to Fight: Orks love fighting, and the prospect of a good punch-up will sometimes stop them from running off
If the unit is locked in combat, it passes the Morale check or Pinning test. If the unit is not locked in combat, it fails.
2-3 Breaking Heads: The mob’s leader knocks a few heads together until the ladz settle down and get back in the fight.
If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
4-6 Squabble: A brawl breaks out as the Orks decide what to do. When the dust settles, nobody can remember what the trouble was about in the first place.
If the unit has 10 or more models, it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. The hits are Randomly Allocated. If the unit has fewer than 10 models, it fails the Morale check or Pinning test.
Has it been elaborated what happens when a mob WITHOUT a character rolls a "Breaking Heads" result? The rule as copied here doesn't specify that the unit fails the morale check, and if it doesn't fail, it doesn't specify that the unit takes any casualties (after all, there's no Nob to beat them up!)
If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. These hits are Randomly Allocated, but cannot be allocated to Ork characters (any excess hits are lost). If the unit does not include any Ork characters, it fails the Morale check or Pinning test
2 - crash
3 - Collide (you and opponent both take a strength 9 hit)
4-9 - Bomb drops as normal
10-12 - Bomb drops as normal, in addition the bomber may fire and of their assault weapons at the target.
Thanks, it's not too bad but I was hoping that the bomb would not scatter, still S7 AP2 barrage (as bombs are treated as barrage for resolving wounds) that only scatters d6 is pretty strong.
Can a battlewagon be taken as a dedicated transport or is it only a heavy support now? If so what units can take it as a DT?
I'm loving that Boyz charging out of a battlewagon with boarding planks and using Waaagh! Have a 83% chance of assaulting something 22” away (slightly more when taking into account ‘ere we go).
************** There is some duplication in this version of list. I haven't had my morning cup of cofee yet, and I'm going cross eyed trying to consolidate it. I will reformat this list when I get a chance******************
ARMY-WIDE RULES 'Ere We Go lets you re-roll 1 charge die.
Waaagh! allows all units with 'Ere We Go to run and and charge in the same turn.
WARBAND FORMATION So, been going over the Formation for an Ork Warband that's listed, that alone is pretty interesting. You have to take at least 60 boyz (6 units). But as stated previously, with this formation a WAAAGH! can be called every turn after the first.
That's at least 60 Boyz that can run AND charge in the same turn, every turn after the first. And with 'Ere we go they get to reroll one charge die. And this formation gives Hammer of Wrath to every unit over 10 models that has 'Ere we go, providing they roll over 10 for charge range. Looking at the wording, it's roll over 10, not charge over 10. "it successfully charges an enemy unit and the dice rolled for its charge range is 10 or more (before modifiers)".
And for comedy value; the Formation has to have a unit of Gretchin. So technically you get Grots with Hammer of Wrath.
HQs listed as
Zagstruk Grotsnik Gives fearless, rampage and FNP MekHQ, 1 per actual HQ bought, has Boy statline, must be put into an artillery or infantry unit before start of game.
Big Mek does not change FoC "A Big Mek may take items from the Mek Weapons, Melee Weapons, Runts & Squigs, Orky Know-wots and/or Gifts of Gork and Mork lists."
Painboy nob stats, urty/slugga. Confers FNP, is IC, can take a bike, no 'Eavy Armor
Weirdboy. gain a Warp Charge point if there are 10 or more models with the 'ere we go rule (Pretty much any Ork from what I've seen) in 12" but has to take a psychic save or take a hit. Can be upgraded to Psyker level 2. Power of the Waaagh! and Daemonlogy disciplines.
Badrukk is a HQ (3+, 5++, str 7 AP2 assault 3 gun) , Badrukk has the rules listed for Da Rippa, but it is not listed in his wargear
Snikrot is not HQ, Snikkrot an elite (doesnt take a slot if taken with Kommandos) (shrouded on arrival, you pick an edge to outflank dont roll), causes fear.
Warboss does not change FoC, klaw and big choppa same cost. Boss pole, Same statline, Slugga, Choppa, Stikkbombs. Can take 'eavy armour, mega armour, TL shoota and PK. May select items from: Ranged weapons list, Melee weapons list, Runts&Squigs list, Orky...
No Wazdakka
No Zogwort.
Ghaz is a LOW now, can take runts/squigs, stats look unchaged
D6 Warlord Trait 1 Prophet of the Waaagh!:Mork (or possibly Gork) has chosen this Warlord for greatness, and every Ork under his command knows it.
The Warlord gains the Waaagh! special rule. If the Warlord already has the Waaagh! special rule then, in addition to the usual effects, all friendly models with the ’Ere We Go! special rule gain the Fearless special rule when he calls a Waaagh!, until the start of their next turn.
2 Bellowing Tyrant: This Warlord is an unholy terror, a roaring lunatic whose every (very loud) word is law.
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, re-roll failed Morale checks and Pinning tests.
3 Like a Thunderbolt!:This Warlord is a master of the all-out, no-holds-barred, headlong charge into battle.
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, can re-roll all the dice when determining Run moves or charge range.
4 Brutal but Kunnin’: This Warlord has a sneaky streak a mile wide and knows just where to hit his foes.
The Warlord can re-roll one failed To Hit or To Wound roll each turn.
5 Kunnin’ but Brutal: The Warlord knows when to roll with a punch, and can shrug off the hardest blows.
The Warlord can re-roll one failed armour or invulnerable saving throw each turn.
6 Might is Right: Made of muscle and aggression, this Warlord is the embodiment of the Orks’ warlike nature.
The Warlord receives +1 to the Strength characteristic on his profile.
Power of the Waaagh! Primaris power is Frazzle (Blast witchfire). 1WC
'Eadbanger is now a focussed witchfire. 1WC
Warpath is a self blessing 1WC
Da jump is what used to be 'ere we go 1WC
Killbolt is a beam attack. 2WC 18" S10 AP2 Beam
Power vomit is a template witchfire. 2WC S7 AP2 Template
Da Krunch is a barrage witchfire. 2WC S2d6 Large Blast, roll over 10 hit everything twice
Mob rule is replaced by the D6 roll on Mob Chart
Mob Chart D6 Result
1 Born to Fight: Orks love fighting, and the prospect of a good punch-up will sometimes stop them from running off
If the unit is locked in combat, it passes the Morale check or Pinning test. If the unit is not locked in combat, it fails.
2-3 Breaking Heads:The mob’s leader knocks a few heads together until the ladz settle down and get back in the fight.
If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
4-6 Squabble:A brawl breaks out as the Orks decide what to do. When the dust settles, nobody can remember what the trouble was about in the first place.
If the unit has 10 or more models, it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. The hits are Randomly Allocated. If the unit has fewer than 10 models, it fails the Morale check or Pinning test.
Ork Characters cannot take wounds from Breaking Eads, so if you have a unit comprised of Ork characters they automatically pass when rolling this results.
Boss Pole - Each time a unit that includes at least one model with a Bosspole rolls on the Mob Rule table, you may choose to re-roll any result other than a Breaking Heads result. You must accept the result of the re-rollt.
Ork Tactical Objectives Shoot an enemy unit off the board,
Kill the enemy warlord in a challenge with your warboss,
Destroy an enemy unit in your assault phase (more units gone, more points)
Turbo boost 3 vehicles (or bike units)
Secure a random objective (roll a D6),
Charge more than 10 inches.
A Big Mek with mega armour can take one of the following
- Tellyport blasta Tellyporta blasta is the back mouned thing I've been describing and seems... uh, situational at best? Very short range weapon but causes instant death on a 6 wound. Rolling a 6 on AP causes a penetrating hit regardless of AV.
- Kustom force field
- Shock attack gun roll of double 6 is vortex!!!
- KFF can be combined with mega armour and bikes, Shock attack gun seems to be combinable with bikes.
- Git finda on SAG
Relics:Gifts of Gork and Mork Da Dead Shiny Shoota 6 shots twinlinked shoota, rolls of 1 hit one of your own units
Da Finkin’ Kap gives your warlord an additional trait from the strategic list.
Da Fixer Upperz repair vehicles on 3+ (hull points, weapon destroyed or immobilised).
Da Lucky Stikk Can choose to reroll failed hit, wound or saving throws, if 3 of these rerolls fail in a single turn the model is removed
Headwoppa’s Killchoppa is a +2 str, AP5, two handed, rending choppa that beheads on a roll of 6 (insta death).
Warboss Gazbag’s Blitzbike Bike, Assault 3, AP 3, Str 6 twinlinked shots.
Orks kept furious charge, are susceptible to fear now
Stormboyz can NOT assault flyers
Meganobz still bulky and use 2 spots in transport
Kommandos got move through cover, stealth and infiltrate, no point hike
Ork boys Slugga boy is 6, Shoota boy is 7. Both come with stikkbombs as standard.
Lootas Heavy Support and cheaper (5 points less per squad)
Deffkoptaz 30 Points base, gun swaps are free, still a jetbike.
Buggies 25 points base, gun swap is free, up to 5, can outflank, don't get new weapons, do get Grot Riggers at 10 points.
Zzap Gun 2D6, gets hot on a 1-3 if you roll 11 or 12
Kannons unchanged
Lobbas unchanged
Stompa in as super heavy
Battle Wagon up 20 points.
Kustom Mega Slugga is a thing.
Not anything about FNP at all
Grot riggers don't just work for IWND on 'nauts, any vehicle that has them, but cost per vehicle seems to differ. 20 to put them on a 'naut. BW don't seem to have the option.
Killkannon 24 inch, STR7 ap3, large blast, Ordinance, still lowers transport on BW
Attack squig nerfed to 1 reroll in melee per turn
Ramshackle got clobbered.. 6+ save when you take a pen, if successful downgrade to glance
Planks Rules a little complicated. If you get out of open topped and declare a charge, add 2 to the charge range
Deffrolla gains AP4 and loses half the hits
ELITE
Nobz- 18 pts. Bikes in the Nob unit are +27 point upgrade. Nob Bikers are the same points as before (but nobs themselves cheaper), Eavy Armour got a point cheaper on the Nobz.
Manz- Kill saw is 10 points for the pair for mega nobz, replaces both weapons.
Waagh banner is 20 pts.
Trukk or Battlewagon for the Mega Nobz. 40 pts/model.
Tankbustas Elite, 65 pts. 2 pts/model cheaper. melta bombs, tank hunter, glory hogs- 2 vps for first blood on a tank, Tankhammer- str 8 AP3, unwieldy. 2 pt decrease/model. Bomb squig- Wargear, str 8 AP 4 can buy up to 3, works same as before, no risk to own unit. No longer have to shoot at nearest tank.
Tank Bustas Big Nob has access to Melee weapon list but cant actually take anything, Reasoning: Big Nob in Tank Busta unit is armed with Rokkit Launcha, Stick bombz, Tankbusta Bombz.
Melee weapon list: "A Model can replace their MELEE weapon with one of the following" So yes they can access the list, but have nothing to exchange to get a weapon
Burnas can take dedicated trukks , 75 pts. Unchanged.
Kommandos- Price drop. move through cover, stealth and infiltrate, stikkbombs, no shootas. Can take 2 burnas as one of their special weapons, however they can only take 2 in a mob. May include Snikkrot (doesnt take a slot if taken with Kommandos otherwise HQ) (shrouded on arrival, you pick an edge to outflank dont roll) Snikrot causes fear.
TROOPS
Ork boyz – 6 pts. +1 pt each for shootas. Units can pay for ‘eavy no longer restricted to 1 per army. One in 10 can take special weapon (Same but rokkit cheaper than it used to be). One model may be a Nob, may select from Ranged or Melee weapons list.
Gretchin- Runtherd comes with Grabba stick, can buy squig hound. If the unit breaks the hound causes D3 str 3 hits on the unit, and can then reroll the morale test.
Grot prod can exchange its attacks for a single double strength attack. AP -
Grabba reduces the enemies attacks by one
No special rules, at all
FAST
Stormboyz- For 30 points more than the old mob you get 30 Stormboys now. Jump Infantry, can run 2D6 instead of one but take dangerous terrain tests doing so. No longer blow themselves up.
Zagstruk- 6* pts. Slugga, choppa, eavy, stikkbombs, cybork, rokkit pack. 1 Less Wound, 1 Less Toughness than a Warboss. Hammer of wrath is str 8 AP2. Cant assault from deepstrike but is a HQ choice.
Deffkoptas- 30 pts each, 5 pt reduction. both its gun changes are now free. Other points stay the same
Buggies- 25 points, 5 pt reduction, up to 5, outflank. Skorcha same cost as before, trakk is a 5 point upgrade.
Warbikers- 18 pts, 7 pt reduction, no exhaust save, get +1 cover if they turbo boost now, otherwise no improved cover at all.
Dakkajets and blitza bombas- maxed out burna bommer now costs 180pts with red paint job. A maxed out blitza-Bommer cost 140pts with red paint job.
Dakka jet guns now only fire one more shot than normal on a Waaagh, not everything twice.
Blitza Bombs: 2D6, on a 2 you crash, 3 you and your target take a str 9 AP 2, otherwise you hit, with 12 meaning you can shoot your guns aswell. (str 7 AP2, large blast armour bane, one use only).
Burna Bombs str 5 AP4 large blast ignore cover. Skorcha Missiles str 5 AP4 small blast ignores cover.
HEAVY
Looted wagon- (found in WD not codex). 37 pts, 2 pt increase. 3 weapon upgrades all 5 pts each. Killkannon 30 pts.
Kans come in 6 packs, NO twin guns, NO Troop choice option, more expensive. 25% more expensive for the big shoota variant. , have special morale rule, test for panic when 25% have died, bouns for numbers and Deff Dread nearby, shaken if they fail.
Deff Dread- 80 Points, 5 pt increase, comes with 2 big shootas, rokkits are a free exchange. KMB are +5 point Exchange. Riggers are 10 points confer IWND. For the price of an old Deff Dread with 2 x Rokkits you can get a new Deff Dred with 2 x Kustom Mega Blastas and Grot Riggers. Deff Dreads can NOT be taken in squadrons
Flash gitz-
Gorka/Morkanaughts- arent assault vehicles and have no options to become one.
DT Trukk- 30 points. 5 pt reduction. Ramshackle- changed, now when you take a penetrating hit roll a D6, on a 6 that hit is now downgraded to a glancing hit. Dedicated transports available for burnas and tank bustas now.
Wreckin ball is a 3 inch range str 9 ap 4 D3 weapon.
Boarding planks- +2" on the charge the turn you disembark from an open topped vehicle with a plank
Deff Rolla- 10 pts. D3 instead of D6 hits now AP 4.
Red paint Job- +1 inch to flat out moves.
LOW
Ghazkul- Same cost, is eternal warrior. His warlord trait makes boyz within 12 inches fearless in a waaagh. Only one waaagh per game unless you are running a specific formation (which ghaz isnt in, so irrelevant sorry)
WARGEAR
Melee Weapons
Klaw- unchanged.
Kill Saws- armour bane.
Choppas- are just CCW.
big choppas- +2 strAP 5.
Ranged Weapons
twinlinked shootas and kombis
Runts & Squigs
surgical grot- reroll fnp ammo runt- reroll shooting to hit
attack squig- reroll cc to hit
grot oiler-
Orky Know-wots
Bike- Painboy's and Warbosses bike is 25 pts, a nob's bike is 27 pts.
Cybork- fnp 6+
Boss pole- reroll chart result.
Gitfinda- BS 3 if stationary.
Waaagh banner- +1 WS.
Zapp gun- 2D6, gets hot on a 1-3 if you roll 11 or 12
KFF- price hasnt changed. KFF is 5++ if embarked than vehicle gets this INSTEAD, explicitly just shooting. KFF can be combined with mega armour and bikes.
Shock attack gun- seems to be combinable with bikes. Double 6 is vortex.
Teleporta Blasta- small blast str 8 ap2, on a 6 its insta death or insta pen.
Grot riggas- IWND (5 points on Kans, 10 on dreds)
Weapons arent exchanged for many of the options on characters, the warboss for example reads "May take items from the Ranged Weapons, Melee Weapons, Runts & Squigs, Orky Know-wots and/or Gifts of Gork and Mork list"
There are other bits that do exchange weapons (taking mega armour for example). Relics are one of each per army (but can take multiple different ones)
Cheap IWND on vehicles (5 points on Kans, 10 on dreds)
Warboss/Bigmek Mega Armor Kit is a thing
Looted Wagons exclusive to White Dwarf
Big meks (non mega armour) with KFF cant take any non-relic ranged weapons. Reasoning:
KFF Replaces Slugga
Mek Weapons says "A model can replace their RANGED weapon with one of the following"
So no KMB or KMS on a non mega Big Mek
Waaagh! Banner All models in a unit add +1 to the Weapon Skill characteristic on their profile.
Killsaws Meks and Mega Nobz can take Killsaws (not buzz saws), which are armour bane power klaws. Normal nobz, and nobz in units do not have access to these.
Points cost varies (mega nobz pay 10 points to exchange both weapons for a pair of killsaws, Meks pay 20 to turn their choppas into a normal kill saw
Ty for this, have an exalt.
Dakkajets are now useless? Infact everything I have was nerfed. Ty GW it's not like I already auto lost every game I played.
Why take jets anymore when lootas are even better?
Mushkilla wrote:Thanks, it's not too bad but I was hoping that the bomb would not scatter, still S7 AP2 barrage (as bombs are treated as barrage for resolving wounds) that only scatters d6 is pretty strong.
Can a battlewagon be taken as a dedicated transport or is it only a heavy support now? If so what units can take it as a DT?
I'm loving that Boyz charging out of a battlewagon with boarding planks and using Waaagh! Have a 83% chance of assaulting something 22” away (slightly more when taking into account ‘ere we go).
Str 9 AP2. So even better, Edit: Sorry thats if you collide, you're right str 7 AP2 also its armourbane
Dedi transport for Gitz, Nobz and Mega Nobz. Also heavy support slot choice for anyone else.
illuknisaa wrote:
Ty for this, have an exalt.
Dakkajets are now useless? Infact everything I have was nerfed. Ty GW it's not like I already auto lost every game I played.
Why take jets anymore when lootas are even better?
One other thing: can somebody clear up exactly how many points a single Loota model costs? I'm seeing contradictory reports from a lot of different places.
Multimoog wrote: One other thing: can somebody clear up exactly how many points a single Loota model costs? I'm seeing contradictory reports from a lot of different places.
Mister Feral wrote: So you can take Snikrot as an Elite on his own? Cool, always liked that model but not over-fussed on Kommandos generally.
You can though its questionable as to how effective he'd be. He cant join any units other than kommandos so he'd just kind of... be there. He only has stikkbombz and knives with shred so its not like he could pull a marbo either.
Thanks for the confirmation. I'm way more a "paint it because it is cool" than "because it is effective in-game" kinda guy, but you raise a good point regardless. I think I would field him with Kommandos but it's nice to know I could plonk him down on his own as well if I wanted.
Forgot to mention thanks for answering all these questions that are being thrown your way, mine included. Hear hear!
First you will never want to use the rokkit boys 2d6 run. Why you ask? Because the average on 2d6 is 7, one whole inch more then you would regularly get on a run. At the cost of one in 6 of your guys dying. You would feel pretty dumb for rolling 2d6 with a 30 man squad, ending up with 5, and losing 6 guys as casualties for your trouble.
Second, what grants us leadership rerolls? Boss poles grant rerolls on the stupid new mob chart. And the lucky strike stick only works for one guy and only on failed to hit, to wound, or saves.
actually, first of all, 2d6 is a 7" average roll, it is awesome, the average roll of ONE dice is NOT 6" its 3.5"...
its not 1" more, its literally twice the average roll...so if you keep missing that basic principle of math it shows your lack of understanding of basic math, let alone lack understanding tactics of how to use this bonus to your advantage...
where as before we ALWAYS lost a guy on a 1, now we can pick and choose when to take the risk, we still only lose a guy on a 1, and get a save...
before, those rokkit boys got 12" +d6, and died on a one... with NO waaagh bonus.. and no charging after running,
now they move 12" +up to 2d6 run IF we want to risk losing guys on 1's, AND we get to run AND charge AND get to reroll a charge dice... that is a BUFF no matter how you cut it...
losing a few more boys, who just took a 30% price cut, is inconsequential to gaining a huge increase in threat range...
*sarcasm* OH noes! i loose an extra 6 pts of guys to dangerous terrain to get my guys into combat turn 1 or two, Id much rather lose the whole unit to shooting instead and not get into close combat to only lose 1-2 orks instead of 3-4, even though they are 30% cheaper...*/sarcasm*
if you are going to cry over losing a few of the free boys you just got from the rokkit boys pts decrease, dont run, its still a huge buff to rokkit boys they still move the same distance, ...
now you move 12" + d6 +2d6 to charge WITH a reroll on charge, before it was 12+d6+2d6 and die on ones.. so again, 100% buff, no negatives AT ALL...
warlord trait allows rerolls. even without re rolls, guard or any other ld 7 infantry will fail pinning checks MORE often then ld 7 orks with boss poles, so if you are not QQ'ing about IG ect dieing to pinning, a rule that is basically non existent in games, then just keep quite about it affecting orks as a game killer, because its simply not the threat you think it is.
first, control your anger.
second, someone told me it was 6 inch auto run in 7th now, just minsinformed, not trying to raise your blood pressure.
third, boss poles allow you to reroll the mob fail chart, not your leadership to avoid bad things happening. but if you are going to use things like warlord rerolls and cherry pick the optimal situations where orks might not be so bad off in leadership, I would remind you you omitted the IG factors that you yourself used as an example of who they are better than. Such as being able to take super cheap and worthwile inquisitor allies and priests for fearless in the first place, commisars for executions to boost your leadership, ect.
Looking further out: 250pts for a 5 mob of MANz + Painboy in a 35pt Trukk (w/ram) is looking much better than my old list's unit of 6 Nobz w/varied weapons in a 40pt trukk.
Losing 5++ is crappy when it comes to taking out units of troops that can potentially contain power weapons, but it would just mean the nobz mob becomes a vehicle/heavy weapon killing crew rather than an enemy HQ harrassment unit (boyz are still good for that)
Cybork combined with Painboy is pointless, Cybork is a 6+ FNP, Painboy give the unit a 5+ FNP.
Da Lukky Stixx is a good replacement for Waaagh banner as you get the option of rerolls and it still provides +1 WS, though not available to painboys it can be taken by Big Meks and Warbosses.
Dakkajets are now useless? Infact everything I have was nerfed. Ty GW it's not like I already auto lost every game I played.
Why take jets anymore when lootas are even better?
Lack of heavy support slots?
Why would you be lacking hs slots? The only other good unit with lootas is mek guns and going 2+1 or 1+2 with lootas and guns isn't a big deal. You can even take tank bustas with lootas now giving you more dakka for a gunline list.
And if you really, really, really want more hs slots you can go unbound.
easysauce wrote:way more buffs in this codex then nerfs,
I agree!
easysauce wrote:
so mass pinnning is their weakness? OH NOES! good thing there is only one codex right now that actually has pinning weapons in any number....
failing ld 7-8, and failing TWO rolls on the animosity chart with boss pole, esp considering there are things that let us re roll LD too, is NOT going to happen often...
heck, its much easier to pin any other ld 7-8 unit then orks... so why all the QQ about being pinned with orks now? if pinning isnt an issue for my guard, its not an issue for orks.
Again, anything that forces a LD check besides casualties is an issue for Orks now. And it's not BEING pinned (or failing the LD) check that is at issue. It's the potentially 2d6 S4 auto-hits we can take from it.
Broodlords have just become high on the Ork hit list. Take a pinning check at -2 LD!
Zagman wrote:I agree, Ere We ago on so many models is huge. Coupled with the ability to use it every turn. With 5pt Boyz. And with Boarding Planks it's 2" extra. And those Boyz may have 5++/5+++.
Orks are now fast and potentially more resilient. And Wierdboyz should have access to Daemonology, who wouldn't want Hammerhand or Sanctuary Orks?
I really think we need the Dex in hand to fully understand what the Army is capable of. Not just the limited snippets we've gotten so far.
No first reads or limited amounts of information really tell us what a Codex is capable of.
1. Boyz cost has been gone over, but Boyz aren't getting 5++/5+++ whatever that means. Our only method of generating cover saves now is LOS blocking units (go Grots I guess) or actual cover. KFF is a 5++ to MODELS within 6", and only against shooting (so no taking it against Mob Rules hits).
2. Have fun with "Perils on any Double", with your no-option psyker. He can almost kill himself in a single turn now. 1W from generating WC, 1W from Perils. GG Weirdboy.
3. People say this every release. We have people with the book in their hands, so I'm not sure we're still in "limited snippets" territory. We know basically 100% of what the new rules are. And they are largely unimpressive for a 3 edition update. Honestly? This book (and Nids before it, really) is SO uninspired, I'm almost willing to put on my tinfoil hat and say it's a cash grab before 8th comes out in a year.
streamdragon wrote: This book (and Nids before it, really) is SO uninspired, I'm almost willing to put on my tinfoil hat and say it's a cash grab before 8th comes out in a year.
Almost.
Lol, nobody's going to buy this trash. That's why they waited through an entire month of staggered releases - to see if anybody would buy things. This codex leak definitely was not on the agenda. The last thing they wanted was for anyone to see the codex before release.
streamdragon wrote: This book (and Nids before it, really) is SO uninspired, I'm almost willing to put on my tinfoil hat and say it's a cash grab before 8th comes out in a year.
Almost.
Lol, nobody's going to buy this trash. That's why they waited through an entire month of staggered releases - to see if anybody would buy things. This codex leak definitely was not on the agenda. The last thing they wanted was for anyone to see the codex before release.
I did say almost! And there are obviously people willing to buy some of this stuff (myself included ).
streamdragon wrote: This book (and Nids before it, really) is SO uninspired, I'm almost willing to put on my tinfoil hat and say it's a cash grab before 8th comes out in a year.
Almost.
Lol, nobody's going to buy this trash. That's why they waited through an entire month of staggered releases - to see if anybody would buy things. This codex leak definitely was not on the agenda. The last thing they wanted was for anyone to see the codex before release.
I just pre ordered it, and mork help me I got the warboss edition
my curiosity got the better of me, with the potential for more orky fun stuff in the supplement.
My horde actually remained about the same. the points I safe on my koptas, and lootas will balance out the increase in shoota boys. but with running and assaulting again, I might go back to choppa boys and have points left over.
the only thing I need to do is replace my KFF meks for some new HQ's. probably weird boys & pain boys.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
deffrekka wrote: So would the lukky stixx with the waaagh! Banner stack to a +2 to WS melcavuk?
If the people you play with think maledictions stack, then their arguments work for the stick to stack as well.
Most people i play dont use pyskers (including me, its just not manly enough ;D) so its just a curious question, as the image of a ws 7 (potential base str 6 with the warlord trait) warboss has been branded to my mind, will allow me to make Da beast!!!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nooooooo!!! :(
Automatically Appended Next Post: Whats the pts difference between the two?
Waaagh Banner is 20, Lukky Stixx is 25 and gives you the choice of rerolling failed hits, wounds or armour saves (but you die instantly if 3 of the rerolls also fail in a turn).
It essentially combined the use of an attack squig and a waaagh banner, but isnt one reroll a turn, aslong as you keep check of how many you've failed you're not gonna kill yourself.
Melcavuk wrote: Cybork combined with Painboy is pointless, Cybork is a 6+ FNP, Painboy give the unit a 5+ FNP.
Da Lukky Stixx is a good replacement for Waaagh banner as you get the option of rerolls and it still provides +1 WS, though not available to painboys it can be taken by Big Meks and Warbosses.
Yeah, the new Cybork is part of the reason I want to start taking a MANz unit to replace my old Nob Mob - a bit cheaper, a lot more durable, now (due to getting FNP) and getting a bunch more PKs.
Rubs wrote: Can multiple HQs take the same relic? Lucky stixx sounds pretty fantastic!
No sorry, each relic is one per army, but every relic is pretty cool. The shoota and Finkin kap are my favourites but more for theme than competitiveness
I pre-ordered mine as well, I don't mind the investment considering the last codex was from fourth, this might have to do till 10th Edition .
The problem is that your paying 3x as much money as the codex, for a supplement that shouldn't exist,art that already exists, and 6 metal objectives. And sense people actually buy this, it makes GW think its ok to do. So they release more.
Also I may be wrong but im pretty sure that the last limited edition codex was only 100 dollars.
I pre-ordered mine as well, I don't mind the investment considering the last codex was from fourth, this might have to do till 10th Edition .
The problem is that your paying 3x as much money as the codex, for a supplement that shouldn't exist,art that already exists, and 6 metal objectives. And sense people actually buy this, it makes GW think its ok to do. So they release more.
Also I may be wrong but im pretty sure that the last limited edition codex was only 100 dollars.
And if GW produces more - because people like them - that means people have to buy them...? If you don't want one it doesn't affect you in any way.
I pre-ordered mine as well, I don't mind the investment considering the last codex was from fourth, this might have to do till 10th Edition .
The problem is that your paying 3x as much money as the codex, for a supplement that shouldn't exist,art that already exists, and 6 metal objectives. And sense people actually buy this, it makes GW think its ok to do. So they release more.
Also I may be wrong but im pretty sure that the last limited edition codex was only 100 dollars.
mutantrocker wrote: So he can't even be used for his old party trick of delivering Ghaz or a biker boss into your opponent's deployment zone. I guess he's staying on the shelf.
That should never have been allowed in the first place, so no complaints from me there.
office_waaagh wrote:So lucky stixx gives +1 WS to the unit, not just the model carrying it? Same as WAAAGH! banner?
Yup, its essentially a waaagh banner with extra benefits
deffrekka wrote:Whats the description on the lukky stixx? Trying to decide how im going to model it
Its a good one:
Makari was an exceptionally lucky grot who survived to the ripe old age of nine before finally meeting his end under the posterior of his hulking master. The plucky grot served as self-appointed banner-waver to the mighty Ghazghkull Thraka himself, surviving countless battles in ever more improbable ways. Ghazghkull saw Makari as something of a mascot. Thus, when the grot’s remains were peeled off his boss’ rear end, Makari’s wavin’ stikk was reclaimed, hosed down, and went into service as an impressive bosspole. Good fortune still surrounds Da Lucky Stikk, though the backlash when things go wrong can be surprisingly bru
I pre-ordered mine as well, I don't mind the investment considering the last codex was from fourth, this might have to do till 10th Edition .
The problem is that your paying 3x as much money as the codex, for a supplement that shouldn't exist,art that already exists, and 6 metal objectives. And sense people actually buy this, it makes GW think its ok to do. So they release more.
Also I may be wrong but im pretty sure that the last limited edition codex was only 100 dollars.
And if GW produces more - because people like them - that means people have to buy them...? If you don't want one it doesn't affect you in any way.
If people didnt buy these outrageously expensive "deals" then GW would have to drop the price, making me (and others) actually get one.
Zog Off wrote: This may be more tactics than rumours, but there are lots of ideas being hypothesized about in here, so what about this?
Use the special FOC to take 3 Painboy HQ's and 3 30-strong units of Ork Boyz for Troops.
Place 1 Painboy in each unit of Ork Boyz. You would then have 90 Ork Boyz with FNP.
An old unit of 30 shoota boyz was 180 points, a new mob with a painboy added in is 260 points.
On a relative cost basis, the new unit is no more survivable than the old unit, except the old unit has ~45% more offensive power on a relative basis and doesn't eat up a HQ slot.
Also, don't forget that if you use a morkanaut to provide KKF coverage, not only are you spending an enormous amount of points (and real $$), an explodes result will do terrible terrible things to all the boyz in the vicinity (the morkanaut is most likely to go down to an explodes result, rather than being wrecked).
actually, first of all, 2d6 is a 7" average roll, it is awesome, the average roll of ONE dice is NOT 6" its 3.5"...
its not 1" more, its literally twice the average roll...so if you keep missing that basic principle of math it shows your lack of understanding of basic math, let alone lack understanding tactics of how to use this bonus to your advantage...
where as before we ALWAYS lost a guy on a 1, now we can pick and choose when to take the risk, we still only lose a guy on a 1, and get a save...
before, those rokkit boys got 12" +d6, and died on a one... with NO waaagh bonus.. and no charging after running,
now they move 12" +up to 2d6 run IF we want to risk losing guys on 1's, AND we get to run AND charge AND get to reroll a charge dice... that is a BUFF no matter how you cut it...
now you move 12" + d6 +2d6 to charge WITH a reroll on charge, before it was 12+d6+2d6 and die on ones.. so again, 100% buff, no negatives AT ALL...
sorry but you are wrong.
first of all, you could use the extra d6 EACH turn, EVERY-TIME you moved! now, you dont do that because the risk is to high. so in almost every game the new stormboyz will be slower
secondly, the "could not charge" thingy was due to the rulechange of "fleet" in the 7th edition. before that you could charge in after running (by the way, this applies to all ork units) so if you compare them right, it would be (on the charging turn)
old: 12+d6+d6+2d6 (1 ork dies if a one is relloed)
new:12+2d6+2d6 (1/6 of the unit will die)
Makari was an exceptionally lucky grot who survived to the ripe old age of nine before finally meeting his end under the posterior of his hulking master. The plucky grot served as self-appointed banner-waver to the mighty Ghazghkull Thraka himself, surviving countless battles in ever more improbable ways. Ghazghkull saw Makari as something of a mascot. Thus, when the grot’s remains were peeled off his boss’ rear end, Makari’s wavin’ stikk was reclaimed, hosed down, and went into service as an impressive bosspole. Good fortune still surrounds Da Lucky Stikk, though the backlash when things go wrong can be surprisingly bru
The shout-out to the 2nd ed Makari (and his 2+ unmodifiable, non-negatable save) is fantastic and makes me happy. I still have that model somewhere, maybe I can find it and re-purpose his banner pole...
Melcavuk wrote: Waaagh Banner is 20, Lukky Stixx is 25 and gives you the choice of rerolling failed hits, wounds or armour saves (but you die instantly if 3 of the rerolls also fail in a turn).
It essentially combined the use of an attack squig and a waaagh banner, but isnt one reroll a turn, aslong as you keep check of how many you've failed you're not gonna kill yourself.
Leave it to GW to nerf the banner (cost increase) and then make a new item that does the same thing, but better, for 5 more points, while also being better than a combination of the old gear that has been changed (nerfed).
I agree with you mel, i think there's a choice. A max of 36" charge to a 30" charge for stormboys not using the extra d6 isn't really a big difference as that Minimum 15" to maximum 30" is a large threat range
nflagey wrote: With all those info about the Codex now, does anyone see a clever use of the 'Orkanaut as transport?
3 Burna Boys w/3 Little Meks - meks keep the naut alive by repairing it every turn, while burnas provide 3 flamer templates when it opens. The meks also still have kustom mega blastas - none of those need to assault to be useful and it's a really good amount of damage in a very sturdy vehicle. So, move 6" in a naut, disembark, move 6" with the passengers, flame/KMB, and also use all the guns on the naut. Or, smash through a few units in CC with the naut (while meks repair), then disembark to roast backfield units.
Zog Off wrote: This may be more tactics than rumours, but there are lots of ideas being hypothesized about in here, so what about this?
Use the special FOC to take 3 Painboy HQ's and 3 30-strong units of Ork Boyz for Troops.
Place 1 Painboy in each unit of Ork Boyz. You would then have 90 Ork Boyz with FNP.
An old unit of 30 shoota boyz was 180 points, a new mob with a painboy added in is 260 points.
On a relative cost basis, the new unit is no more survivable than the old unit, except the old unit has ~45% more offensive power on a relative basis and doesn't eat up a HQ slot.
Also, don't forget that if you use a morkanaut to provide KKF coverage, not only are you spending an enormous amount of points (and real $$), an explodes result will do terrible terrible things to all the boyz in the vicinity (the morkanaut is most likely to go down to an explodes result, rather than being wrecked).
I don't understand how a unit of Shoota Boyz in the old edition has more offensive power than a unit of Shoota Boyz in the new edition. Did their stats change or something?
And, in the old edition, I would be using two HQ slots for Big Meks with KFF's. Now I'm using the HQ slots for Pain Boys and getting my KFF's elsewhere. I don't really see that as eating up a slot. I see it more as freeing up a slot and putting something else cool in its place.
Also, would the threat of a Morkanaut exploding be any worse than the threat of Dreads/Killa Kanz exploding in a walker wall from the old edition?
Honest questions. Not trying to argue. Just trying to brainstorm. I'll be glad when the new codex is officially out so we can get a tactica thread going.
I think he means effectiveness per point. Cost went up with no appreciable difference in output.
KFFs can only be on Big Meks and Morkanauts. So you're either still using an HQ slot for it, or using a HS slot (which is sadly just as crowded as HQ).
As to exploding, the *Naut is on a much bigger base than the Dredd or Kanz, so more radius of explosion essentially.
I don't understand how a unit of Shoota Boyz in the old edition has more offensive power than a unit of Shoota Boyz in the new edition. Did their stats change or something?.
their price went up.
new dex: 90 shootaz, 180 shots, 630points
old dex: 105 shootaz, 210 shots, 630 points
ergo => old shootaz have more offensive power
EDIT:
and you could fracture in the nerf to the KFF wich makes em more fragile
This week's WDW was actually alright, there's a bit of lore in there and an actual battle report too! But yeah, the rules for the looted wagon alone make it worth it if you're an ork player.
Or if you don't want to give GW your money (which I can totally understand) just look below.
Been back several pages & couldn't see it, but did anyone else notice that the Unit Composition says "1 Gorkanaut"?
Just another example of the fine quality of GW productions. Your 1 Gorkanaut will cost you a mere 37 points with a str 8 Killkannon. Err....I mean your 37 point looted wagon with a Str 7 killkannon, oopsie doopsie.
This week's WDW was actually alright, there's a bit of lore in there and an actual battle report too! But yeah, the rules for the looted wagon alone make it worth it if you're an ork player.
Or if you don't want to give GW your money (which I can totally understand) just look below.
Been back several pages & couldn't see it, but did anyone else notice that the Unit Composition says "1 Gorkanaut"?
In other words, adding a painboy to your army's boyz does nothing to actually make them more durable, due to how high the substitution cost is. In fact, it actually weakens them, as the painboy himself is of relatively little offensive value, compared to say a KFF Big Mek who could take a power klaw and function as a nob for all intents and purposes, or just more boyz.
This also assumes the painboys are the last to die, which is a terrible assumption, as they are most likely to be the first to die.
When dealing with GW products, never assume that any thought or statistical analysis went into creating the rules in an attempt to create "balance", or that point costs are actually based on relative power level.
For example, as shown previously in this thread, the new mob rule is actually WORSE for small units now. A unit of 1-7 models including a character with a bosspole is 11.8% more likely to run than the same unit in the 4th Ed codex. GW presumably created the new mob rule to help smaller elite ork units with their morale, but actually ended up nerfing them.
Again, anything that forces a LD check besides casualties is an issue for Orks now. And it's not BEING pinned (or failing the LD) check that is at issue. It's the potentially 2d6 S4 auto-hits we can take from it.
Broodlords have just become high on the Ork hit list. Take a pinning check at -2 LD!
its a buff:
in the sense that units of 12 or less orks now have to make a (usually rerollable, is a 1+ in combat) 2+ to pass any failed ld tests, can now go to ground, and worst case is take D6 hits (not 2d6), half of which wound, where as before they were vunderable. for smaller ork units, its a buff.
its a nerf:
in that IF you roll double 1's, you might run away from shooting, or be pinned, if you are at 12+ models, going from 0% chance, to the smallest chance ever, is technically a nerf, but coupled with the above buff to MSU's, its a net gain over all.
not to mentionthe large pts reduction in bikers and stormboyz, as well as bestter wagh, and ere we go rules, as well as those better rules now applying to bikers+ storm boyz, is awesome, just freaking awesome.
mel, anything that talks about this in the codex?
One thing I think we need to look at, is if ghazzys waaagh is able to be done every turn with the new formation...
having a 2++ on him in that might explain why hes LOW?
As far as I know you can't take Ghaz with the ork warband because that formation can't include a LoW. I'm not sure, but I believe it was stated 20 pages ago... I do hope it's wrong - Ghaz with a permanent 2++ would actually make sense as a LoW!
actually, first of all, 2d6 is a 7" average roll, it is awesome, the average roll of ONE dice is NOT 6" its 3.5"...
its not 1" more, its literally twice the average roll...so if you keep missing that basic principle of math it shows your lack of understanding of basic math, let alone lack understanding tactics of how to use this bonus to your advantage...
where as before we ALWAYS lost a guy on a 1, now we can pick and choose when to take the risk, we still only lose a guy on a 1, and get a save...
before, those rokkit boys got 12" +d6, and died on a one... with NO waaagh bonus.. and no charging after running,
now they move 12" +up to 2d6 run IF we want to risk losing guys on 1's, AND we get to run AND charge AND get to reroll a charge dice... that is a BUFF no matter how you cut it...
now you move 12" + d6 +2d6 to charge WITH a reroll on charge, before it was 12+d6+2d6 and die on ones.. so again, 100% buff, no negatives AT ALL...
sorry but you are wrong.
first of all, you could use the extra d6 EACH turn, EVERY-TIME you moved! now, you dont do that because the risk is to high. so in almost every game the new stormboyz will be slower
secondly, the "could not charge" thingy was due to the rulechange of "fleet" in the 7th edition. before that you could charge in after running (by the way, this applies to all ork units) so if you compare them right, it would be (on the charging turn)
old: 12+d6+d6+2d6 (1 ork dies if a one is relloed)
new:12+2d6+2d6 (1/6 of the unit will die)
now tell me... how's that not a nerf?
because you have the rules wrong?
you only got the extra d6 when using the jump pack... and you could not run and charge before, so you have an extra d6 in your math that should not be there.
you can only use the jump pack ONCE as per turn BRB rules, and only when use it do you get the extra D6, its not added to every single charge/move automatically...
you dont/didnt get to add d6 to move AND + d6 charge distance the same turn...
it went from 12" + d6 special move, + 2d6 charge, roll a 1 lose a guy
to 12 +d6run, +2d6 charge, with a re roll due to improved er we go, no chance to lose anyone since im not using the special rule.
with the OPTION of risking a dangerous test to get d6 more inches in a run move then before.
its a buff:
in the sense that units of 12 or less orks now have to make a (usually rerollable, is a 1+ in combat) 2+ to pass any failed ld tests, can now go to ground, and worst case is take D6 hits (not 2d6), half of which wound, where as before they were vunderable. for smaller ork units, its a buff.
its a nerf:
in that IF you roll double 1's, you might run away from shooting, or be pinned, if you are at 12+ models, going from 0% chance, to the smallest chance ever, is technically a nerf, but coupled with the above buff to MSU's, its a net gain over all.
not to mentionthe large pts reduction in bikers and stormboyz, as well as bestter wagh, and ere we go rules, as well as those better rules now applying to bikers+ storm boyz, is awesome, just freaking awesome.
mel, anything that talks about this in the codex?
One thing I think we need to look at, is if ghazzys waaagh is able to be done every turn with the new formation...
having a 2++ on him in that might explain why hes LOW?
Please understand the rules.
Mob Chart wrote:
Mob rule is replaced by the D6 roll on Mob Chart
D6 Result
1 If the unit is locked in combat, it passes the Morale check or Pinning test. If the unit is not locked in combat, it fails.
2-3 If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
4-6 If the unit has 10 or more models, it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. The hits are Randomly Allocated. If the unit has fewer than 10 models, it fails the Morale check or Pinning test.
Boss Pole gives Reroll on the mob chart.
If you have less than ten models, you fail on the mob rule chart if you roll higher than a 3. Only the 1-3 options allow you to pass a failed leadership test, and there are conditions to that. You have to be locked in combat for 1 to be successful, and you have to have a character for 2-3 to be successful. If you have a unit of less than ten models that is not locked in combat with no characters, that unit cannot pass a failed leadership test on the mob chart.
It's a net nerf compared to old mob rule for units over ten units and units under ten units. It's a net nerf to mob rule, in other words.
Toburk wrote: In other words, adding a painboy to your army's boyz does nothing to actually make them more durable, due to how high the substitution cost is. In fact, it actually weakens them, as the painboy himself is of relatively little offensive value, compared to say a KFF Big Mek who could take a power klaw and function as a nob for all intents and purposes, or just more boyz.
This also assumes the painboys are the last to die, which is a terrible assumption, as they are most likely to be the first to die.
When dealing with GW products, never assume that any thought or statistical analysis went into creating the rules in an attempt to create "balance", or that point costs are actually based on relative power level.
For example, as shown previously in this thread, the new mob rule is actually WORSE for small units now. A unit of 1-7 models including a character with a bosspole is 11.8% more likely to run than the same unit in the 4th Ed codex. GW presumably created the new mob rule to help smaller elite ork units with their morale, but actually ended up nerfing them.
"they are most likely to be the first to die." - what bunk is this? They gain the benefit of their own FNP as well as being able to LoS on a 2+ for being ICHQs. Your weird math doesn't check out.
have - have you ever been truly happy, as a person?
With the level of sadness and depression on this thread, I am willing to do my part.
If those of you who are struggling with the changes need help, and can see through your tear soaked eyes, I am sure I can buy some of your horrible ork models to ease your burden.
Or you can settle down and dig into the cool things.
1. Increased charge range
2. Greatly decreased point costs on many formerly over costed units (buggies/bikes/kill cannons)
3. Versatile painboyz (old ones were nice too, but now they are more flexible)
4. Actual psyker for actual psykering
I miss the following though:
1. Cybork being worth using
2. Filling troop slots with deff dreads and nobs
3. My grammie. RIP GRAMMIE!
Ghaz cannot benefit from the Waagh every turn ability of the formation sadly. The formation says that if the formations warboss is the Warlord then they can use their Waaagh ability every turn.
Ghaz's ability says that if he is the Warlord he gets a 2+ invul (aswell as making boys fearless in a bubble and the usual stuff).
Since Ghaz cant be in the formation, and you cant have 2 warlord the two ability never coincide.
Still waiting to find out what the tellyport blasta actually DOES - don't think we've seen ALL the actual rules for it yet? It has a 12" range and can put down one (or more?) large blasts? Maybe.
Melcavuk wrote: Ghaz cannot benefit from the Waagh every turn ability of the formation sadly. The formation says that if the formations warboss is the Warlord then they can use their Waaagh ability every turn.
Ghaz's ability says that if he is the Warlord he gets a 2+ invul (aswell as making boys fearless in a bubble and the usual stuff).
Since Ghaz cant be in the formation, and you cant have 2 warlord the two ability never coincide.
So since Ghaz is at exactly the same price point with nerfs (no +2A on the charge or in-built 5++ w/CB) does he add nothing other than being a slightly beefier Mega-Armoured WB? Does he even still have his Big Shoota?
shamroll wrote: Is there still a way to make Warbikers a troop choice? Like give a warbike to a warboss makes Warbikers troops, similar to space marine captains?
As it stands you have either the choice of taking Zhardsnark from FW as your warlord (provided they don't faq him and take away the ability)
shamroll wrote: Is there still a way to make Warbikers a troop choice? Like give a warbike to a warboss makes Warbikers troops, similar to space marine captains?
So I mathhammered Ere We Go cant for the life of me work out how to put a table in here though.
First column is the result on the dice, second is your chance of getting a least that result if you use a reroll on a 1 or 2. third is using a reroll on 1,2 or 3 and the last is no rerolls
Melcavuk wrote: Ghaz cannot benefit from the Waagh every turn ability of the formation sadly. The formation says that if the formations warboss is the Warlord then they can use their Waaagh ability every turn.
Ghaz's ability says that if he is the Warlord he gets a 2+ invul (aswell as making boys fearless in a bubble and the usual stuff).
Since Ghaz cant be in the formation, and you cant have 2 warlord the two ability never coincide.
So since Ghaz is at exactly the same price point with nerfs (no +2A on the charge or in-built 5++ w/CB) does he add nothing other than being a slightly beefier Mega-Armoured WB? Does he even still have his Big Shoota?
I see one (small?) advantage: he's not competing with other HQ anymore
streamdragon wrote: I think he means effectiveness per point. Cost went up with no appreciable difference in output.
KFFs can only be on Big Meks and Morkanauts. So you're either still using an HQ slot for it, or using a HS slot (which is sadly just as crowded as HQ).
As to exploding, the *Naut is on a much bigger base than the Dredd or Kanz, so more radius of explosion essentially.
I still don't see that as eating up slots, though. I'm using Pain Boys to replace Big Meks with KFF's and Morkanauts to replace Deff Dreads/Killa Kanz.
In the Deff Dreads/Killa Kanz wall, 2 Big Meks with Kustom Force Fields would cost 170 pts. 2 Deff Dreads with Skorchas (for the sake of cheapness) would cost 210 pts. 90 Shoota Boyz would cost 540 pts. 9 Killa Kanz with Grotzookas would cost 405 pts. That's a total of 1325 pts. for 90 Shoota Boyz with a cover save for being behind the Dreads/Killa Kanz.
In the Morkanaut "wall", 3 Pain Boys would cost 150 pts. 90 Shoota Boyz would cost 630 pts. 2 Morkanauts with KFF's would cost 560 pts. That's a total of 1340 pts. for 90 Shoota Boyz with an invulnerable save and FNP.
That's a difference of 15 pts. The Shoota Boyz in the Morkanaut "wall" are obviously much more durable than the Shoota Boyz in the Deff Dreads/Killa Kanz wall. The question is, will the Morkanauts be as durable as the Deff Dreads and Killa Kanz?
The Morkanauts are two targets with AV 13 and 5 Hull Points per target, at a total of 10 Hull Points. 6 Killa Kanz are two targets with AV 11 and 2 Hull Points per target, at a total of 12 Hull Points. At this point, I would say the Morkanauts are more durable, but...add in 2 Deff Dreads and another unit of Killa Kanz, and I don't think the Morkanauts AV means as much as extra targets and extra Hull Points.
Also, we would have to find a way to compensate for the low AV fire support that the Lootas provided to the Deff Dread/Killa Kanz wall. Perhaps the reduced price in Deffkoptas and Tankbustas could bring down points for some roles and free up points for other roles. I don't know! Unknowns! Possibilities! Excitement!
To Multimoog, PhillyT, and Ronin44 (when he comes around):
We're not actually sad or depressed, we're just talking about the rules and trying to figure out how they work. You don't have to try to cheer us up, we're actually enjoying talking about this! Imagine us, if you will, at a coffee shop, smiles on our faces, and speaking in an animated and jovial fashion.
Tone doesn't carry well in text posts and I can understand how it might come off as abrasive when we're trying to emphasis something.
I'M SO fething EXCITED FOR THIS CODEX! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!! An assault army that doesn't need to have a 2++ rerollable or Invis to work? YES PLEASE!
You can measure the charge range in advance, so if you know that you need a ten for example and you roll double fours you would re-roll one of them. The odds of results above 8 should be slightly higher to reflect that you would also re-roll results higher than three if needed.
Edit for clarification: I'm not disputing the odds computed, just observing that this scenario doesn't actually give you the best possible odds for results above 8.
HalfBlood wrote: Can someone post the cost of a weirdboy and his upgrades?
Also can someone post what each psychic ability does??
Thanks in advance guys
First Post!!
Not to be a Kommissar Nob, but all this can be found on the front page. Try to check it out first before asking since it only requires a modicum of effort to find some of the stuff you're looking for. Welcome to Dakka!
actually, first of all, 2d6 is a 7" average roll, it is awesome, the average roll of ONE dice is NOT 6" its 3.5"...
its not 1" more, its literally twice the average roll...so if you keep missing that basic principle of math it shows your lack of understanding of basic math, let alone lack understanding tactics of how to use this bonus to your advantage...
where as before we ALWAYS lost a guy on a 1, now we can pick and choose when to take the risk, we still only lose a guy on a 1, and get a save...
before, those rokkit boys got 12" +d6, and died on a one... with NO waaagh bonus.. and no charging after running,
now they move 12" +up to 2d6 run IF we want to risk losing guys on 1's, AND we get to run AND charge AND get to reroll a charge dice... that is a BUFF no matter how you cut it...
now you move 12" + d6 +2d6 to charge WITH a reroll on charge, before it was 12+d6+2d6 and die on ones.. so again, 100% buff, no negatives AT ALL...
sorry but you are wrong.
first of all, you could use the extra d6 EACH turn, EVERY-TIME you moved! now, you dont do that because the risk is to high. so in almost every game the new stormboyz will be slower
secondly, the "could not charge" thingy was due to the rulechange of "fleet" in the 7th edition. before that you could charge in after running (by the way, this applies to all ork units) so if you compare them right, it would be (on the charging turn)
old: 12+d6+d6+2d6 (1 ork dies if a one is relloed)
new:12+2d6+2d6 (1/6 of the unit will die)
now tell me... how's that not a nerf?
because you have the rules wrong?
you only got the extra d6 when using the jump pack... and you could not run and charge before, so you have an extra d6 in your math that should not be there.
you can only use the jump pack ONCE as per turn BRB rules, and only when use it do you get the extra D6, its not added to every single charge/move automatically...
you dont/didnt get to add d6 to move AND + d6 charge distance the same turn...
it went from 12" + d6 special move, + 2d6 charge, roll a 1 lose a guy
before 7th edition, so back when the rules came out, stormboys had the whaagh! special rule wich allowed them to charge after using fleet
and then again. you're only looking at one turn. try to see a whole game. everytime you moved you added d6. then you could run. so 12"+d6+d6... EVERY TURN, with little risk of orks dying.
compare that the new rules. its the same distance but with 1/6th of the unit gone.
the only upside would be when your're chargin since you dont need to whaaagh. but in term of velocity and mobility its a straight up nerf
Melcavuk wrote: Ghaz cannot benefit from the Waagh every turn ability of the formation sadly. The formation says that if the formations warboss is the Warlord then they can use their Waaagh ability every turn.
Ghaz's ability says that if he is the Warlord he gets a 2+ invul (aswell as making boys fearless in a bubble and the usual stuff).
Since Ghaz cant be in the formation, and you cant have 2 warlord the two ability never coincide.
So since Ghaz is at exactly the same price point with nerfs (no +2A on the charge or in-built 5++ w/CB) does he add nothing other than being a slightly beefier Mega-Armoured WB? Does he even still have his Big Shoota?
Honestly aside from having eternal warrior I cannot see any way in which Ghaz has improved in order to merit the move to Lord of War slot. his Waaagh ability is marginally better (2+ invul for a turn, fearless boys for same turn)). He still gets his big shoota.
Toburk wrote: To Multimoog, PhillyT, and Ronin44 (when he comes around):
We're not actually sad or depressed, we're just talking about the rules and trying to figure out how they work. You don't have to try to cheer us up, we're actually enjoying talking about this! Imagine us, if you will, at a coffee shop, smiles on our faces, and speaking in an animated and jovial fashion.
Tone doesn't carry well in text posts and I can understand how it might come off as abrasive when we're trying to emphasis something.
Oh I'm not accuse anyone in particular. I am responding to the nearly non-stop doomsaying bouncing around and the typical calls of how this codex cannot be anything but a complete failure.
It is of course normal, these things happen. People are in the post wish list/first heartbreak mode and they cannot see where things might get better. I am positive that this list is a significant bump over the last edition in many ways.
Better shooting, way better options for dealing with vehicles (tankbustas with tank hunter, blitz bomma, mek guns) and a return to being able to charge with decent odds.
Melcavuk wrote: Honestly aside from having eternal warrior I cannot see any way in which Ghaz has improved in order to merit the move to Lord of War slot. his Waaagh ability is marginally better (2+ invul for a turn, fearless boys for same turn)). He still gets his big shoota.
Ghaz already had EW in 4th edition (its under the rules for his adamantium skull). It was just written out long-hand as the EWUSR didn't exist back then.
Tbh in loving the new ork codex, will miss my mob bikers, but were orkz gorkdamnit!!!! WE LEARN TO ADAPT! Or we forget how we did it in the first place haha only list ive ever had problems with was the flying daemon list but this book gives me and others a glimmer of hope WEZ DA BIGGEST 'N' STRONGEST DERE IZ, 'N' ILL STOMP YA FLAT IF YA TINK OUVVA WISE YA 'UMIE LOVIN' SQUIG FARMA!!
deffrekka wrote: Tbh in loving the new ork codex, will miss my mob bikers, but were orkz gorkdamnit!!!! WE LEARN TO ADAPT! Or we forget how we did it in the first place haha only list ive ever had problems with was the flying daemon list but this book gives me and others a glimmer of hope WEZ DA BIGGEST 'N' STRONGEST DERE IZ, 'N' ILL STOMP YA FLAT IF YA TINK OUVVA WISE YA 'UMIE LOVIN' SQUIG FARMA!!
deffrekka wrote: Yeah ive noticed that there's a few head strong people on here but other than that most are willing to help each other and have a laugh
If you don't have sense of humour, why are you playing orks. Back to topic.
I decided to mitigate the expense of the Flash Gitz box by digging up an old box of Nobz and getting a set of AoBR Nobz. That "should" give me 15 Flash Gitz once I'm done.
now put them in large artillary squads for t7, grant slow + purpose to the unit...
mmmmmmmm
I've seen a few here saying the artillery would gain SnP but isn't that a bit "cheating", or should I rather say, a not really fair interpretation of the rules?
never had an FAQ to make sure that was not how it should be played?
now put them in large artillary squads for t7, grant slow + purpose to the unit...
mmmmmmmm
I've seen a few here saying the artillery would gain SnP but isn't that a bit "cheating", or should I rather say, a not really fair interpretation of the rules?
never had an FAQ to make sure that was not how it should be played?
how is it cheating to follow the rules?
S+P give you some disadvantages to the whole unit, so long as one model has the rule, IE no run no over watch,
but also gives the whole unit advantages, like may move and fire heavyordnance and still charge too , artillary still cant charge though so you have to separate them eventually for HTH
no worse then giving shrouded to a whole unit when only one model has the USR.
now put them in large artillary squads for t7, grant slow + purpose to the unit...
mmmmmmmm
I've seen a few here saying the artillery would gain SnP but isn't that a bit "cheating", or should I rather say, a not really fair interpretation of the rules?
never had an FAQ to make sure that was not how it should be played?
how is it cheating to follow the rules?
S+P give you some disadvantages to the whole unit, so long as one model has the rule, IE no run no over watch,
but also gives the whole unit advantages, like may move and fire heavyordnance and still charge too , artillary still cant charge though so you have to separate them eventually for HTH
no worse then giving shrouded to a whole unit when only one model has the USR.
I'm sure you understood what I meant, and I did put quote on the word "cheating".
The point was, that it's not really in the spirit of the rule I would say: being so heavy but strong that the model can shoot heavy weapons while moving ... that is, in the spirit, for MegaNobz but not for Mek Gunz
nflagey wrote: I'm sure you understood what I meant, and I did put quote on the word "cheating".
The point was, that it's not really in the spirit of the rule I would say: being so heavy but strong that the model can shoot heavy weapons while moving ... that is, in the spirit, for MegaNobz but not for Mek Gunz
Just imagine the Megaboss pulling the guns behind him as he lumbers forward while the grots fire away at anything in sight
But yeah. That one will get FAQed pretty soon I guess.
nflagey wrote: I'm sure you understood what I meant, and I did put quote on the word "cheating".
The point was, that it's not really in the spirit of the rule I would say: being so heavy but strong that the model can shoot heavy weapons while moving ... that is, in the spirit, for MegaNobz but not for Mek Gunz
Just imagine the Megaboss pulling the guns behind him as he lumbers forward while the grots fire away at anything in sight
But yeah. That one will get FAQed pretty soon I guess.
I think its working as intended, makes fluff sense too if thats what the issue is with it.
unit moves slower, but more purposeful, as the USR suggest, plenty of USR's confer upon units to buff them, sowhy should orks not be able to buff stuff?
makes no sense that marker lights "extra light" somehow makes tau bs 5 or ignores cover (ooo its so bright it burns our eyes into extra shootyness!) but hey, its how the rule works so go for it.
I see it as the Ork warboss kicks the grots forward, threatens, ect to "encourage" them to move and shoot, but they are too scared/busy to run, cant overwatch, cant sweeping advance, and cannot charge, not at all over powered, not at all unfluffy given the art rules in the first place.
makes more fluff sense then the guns toughness being used in the first place, but thats a core mechanic for two editions now, so its is definitely RAI and RAW at this point.
either way, with the new formation looks like a lot of goodness to be excited over, dependable charges, formations that grant us HOW on good charge rolls? good stuff.
They do get relentless but they they still can't shoot on the move, because of their own rules.
re read artillary rules, there is nothing in there restricting them from moving and shooting beyond their weapon profile of "heavy" ect and they dont gain relentless, they gain S+P, lots of differences between them
either way, its up to 4 2+ guys with t7 against shooting, fun stuff.
keeping in mind it does totally, and royally, screw you over if you get assaulted lose combat, likely with grots, and you get auto sweeping advanced :(
Also, let's talk about fluff. The old codex had write ups about the clans and gave small mentions of the units each clan had an affinity for using. Is there anything like that in the new codex, or are they trying to push clans in a more generic direction, with no mention of each clan having an affinity for certain units over others?
Also also, how many points is a Stompa? I'm sure I missed that, but I can't find anything in all of the posts.
Zog Off wrote: Also, let's talk about fluff. The old codex had write ups about the clans and gave small mentions of the units each clan had an affinity for using. Is there anything like that in the new codex, or are they trying to push clans in a more generic direction, with no mention of each clan having an affinity for certain units over others?
Also also, how many points is a Stompa? I'm sure I missed that, but I can't find anything in all of the posts.
Theres a page on each Klan, focusing on who they are, what they do, typical fighting style along with an artistic picture of a "typical" member of each klan. And a blurb for each focusing on either a notable unit or character they use.
770, well lets call it 800 because who wouldnt take grot riggers for IWND on a 12 hull point super heavy
Zog Off wrote: Also, let's talk about fluff. The old codex had write ups about the clans and gave small mentions of the units each clan had an affinity for using. Is there anything like that in the new codex, or are they trying to push clans in a more generic direction, with no mention of each clan having an affinity for certain units over others?
Also also, how many points is a Stompa? I'm sure I missed that, but I can't find anything in all of the posts.
Theres a page on each Klan, focusing on who they are, what they do, typical fighting style along with an artistic picture of a "typical" member of each klan. And a blurb for each focusing on either a notable unit or character they use.
After reading though the last 50 pages or so of this thread and figuring out what all the changes are, I still have to say there are changes I don't like, but overall I think I will have a lot of fun with the new codex still.
The things i have trouble accepting is:
1. No more invulnerable saves. I had hoped to be able to at least give my Warboss a 4++, but looks like that aint happening. I cannot for the life of me understand who would think that it seemed like a good idea to remove any ability to give Orks a real (ignoring the KFF) invulnerable save. 2. The change to mob rule was unnecessary, and slows the game down. 3. Removing Looted Wagons from the game, and then putting the rules in a magazine that I, living where I do, have no local vendor that sell it. (I will get the rules online. same as any other "DLC" GW might decide to make for us . That should be free as far as I'm concerned, but that''s a whole other discussion for some other time and place...)
4. Overcrowded Heavy Support section.
There is more, but in the end I will buy the codex and use it, cause Orks are what I like and Orks are what I play. Outside of no true invulnerable saves (WHY?), I think the codex will be pretty good, fun and as balanced as GW usually rules get
Melcavuk thanks for sharing and taking your time to answer questions.
Release is gonna be orksome. We have more dakka, cheaper joy toys and more assaulting.
Remember kids - chop the shoota ones, shoot the choppy ones.
Oh and a couple of questions: Painboy is 50 pts. Big mek with KFF is same price as previous codex, korrekt? I am of course referring to what it will cost to make the durable boyz of doom
This is a total jerk move but the Dread Mob need updating fast. The rules over there are completely open to cherry-picking the best cost of each codex, like cheaper Shoota boys.
Having said that, and assuming the minum change possible (units costed and corrected to match core codex) some clear winners are still available in the codex:
- Rokkit Kans seem to be the way to go YET, the Mega tank would appear to yield more resilience, and shots for a lower cost.
Has anyone tried to build a 7th ed list yet with the leaks?
now put them in large artillary squads for t7, grant slow + purpose to the unit...
Yeah, that's orky as all hell...
Livingcover wrote:After reading though the last 50 pages or so of this thread and figuring out what all the changes are, I still have to say there are changes I don't like, but overall I think I will have a lot of fun with the new codex still.
The things i have trouble accepting is:
1. No more invulnerable saves. I had hoped to be able to at least give my Warboss a 4++, but looks like that aint happening. I cannot for the life of me understand who would think that it seemed like a good idea to remove any ability to give Orks a real (ignoring the KFF) invulnerable save. 2. The change to mob rule was unnecessary, and slows the game down.
Absolutely. I'm wait until I play some games to make a final judgement, but I think this is just another example of how GW doesn't know what the hell they're doing, and think random tables will fix everything. And they don't know how people actually play the game.
Since the new marine codex came out, I haven't played a single game against a marine opponent that wasn't running an Eternal Warrior chapter master with 4 wounds and a 3+ inv. save. Not one. Yet, orks can't even have a 5+?
Mob rule has gotten progressively worse through the editions. 3rd ed, you got a mob size roll, with a number of units that would be expected to be smaller, like warbikes, being naturally fearless. 4th ed screwed small units. Now we're just going to self-destruct. Did nobs get any sort of boost, or are they still Ld 7?
I can't believe they made shoota boys more expensive either.
Livingcover wrote: After reading though the last 50 pages or so of this thread and figuring out what all the changes are, I still have to say there are changes I don't like, but overall I think I will have a lot of fun with the new codex still.
The things i have trouble accepting is:
1. No more invulnerable saves. I had hoped to be able to at least give my Warboss a 4++, but looks like that aint happening. I cannot for the life of me understand who would think that it seemed like a good idea to remove any ability to give Orks a real (ignoring the KFF) invulnerable save. 2. The change to mob rule was unnecessary, and slows the game down. 3. Removing Looted Wagons from the game, and then putting the rules in a magazine that I, living where I do, have no local vendor that sell it. (I will get the rules online. same as any other "DLC" GW might decide to make for us . That should be free as far as I'm concerned, but that''s a whole other discussion for some other time and place...)
4. Overcrowded Heavy Support section.
There is more, but in the end I will buy the codex and use it, cause Orks are what I like and Orks are what I play. Outside of no true invulnerable saves (WHY?), I think the codex will be pretty good, fun and as balanced as GW usually rules get
Agreed basically what I have been thinking this whole time.
Also this may have been said but haven't seen it in any recent posts, or the summary on the first post, but can someone give me the stats for the tank hammer and bomb-squigs.
Wait, so can Ghaz be taken with that formation that allows a WAAAGH!!! on every turn? If he can, then I feel like he has "Prophet of the Waaagh!!!" as a warlord trait. WAAAGH!!! on every turn with fearless mobs? Sign me up.
Manz sound pretty good if they can get FNP and an Invo.
Seems like you're pretty late to the party because this was pointed out in the very first post of the thread.
KFF give 5+ invuln. and can be taken only by Big Meks (and the Morkanaut) but only works against shooting and if the unit that has it embarks onto a transport it only protects the transport so no more KFF bubbles coming out of battlewagons.
Please check out the first post of the thread next time, a lot of the same questions are being repeated that can be easily answered if you perused a little through the first post.
I suggested something about the warbosses/mad dokk and artillery unit in the tactics when we got the preview in the WD.... Mad they called me.... Mad I say!
schadenfreude wrote: I got the no bubbles out of wagons part, standard DA field. Do morkanaights project a bubble?.
Yes, so far they are the only ones that seem to be able to do what the old KFF effectively used to do.
Or grotz, for that sweet sweet 5+ cover save. You can get a fair number of the little blighters too for the cost of a Big Mek and his KFF.
As far as I know, Big Meks with KFF are still available as infantry. Two of them would give you a 5++ bubble two foot across on the table, should be enough to cover a couple of full sized units of Boyz (or the ones at the front that'll be taking the casualties, at least). And with the new Ork formation you'd still have an HQ slot left for a Painboy or a Warboss, or another Big Mek with KFF for a three foot wide bubble. Being an invul now means you can tell all those Blueys and Humies with their ignores cover to tell it to yer choppa. The infantry advance covered by KFFs will need to be modified, but it's hardly dead I'd say.
I played that new 5++ KFF Advance army a few weeks ago with some IA8 Painbosses (AKA The New Painboyz). They did really well as far as saves are concerned and will likely become a VERY popular standard.
How much do rokkits cost on ork boy mobs? I am guessing 10 points?
What is everyone's opinion about running the following:
Warboss
-Mega Armor
-Da Lukky Stixx
It costs 125 points, gives him a re-rollable 2+ save, a PK, and +1 WS to him and his unit. I am thinking about throwing the WB in a unit of 30 Shoota Boyz. Have the Warboss just take all the hits with his 2+ re-rollable. This means the unit will need to be dealt 36 wounds for the WB to be dealt a wound. Then you can look out sir all ap2 wounds.
Another idea could be to place him in a unit of slugga boyz, or maybe an elite unit. How about nobz, burna boyz, or tankbustaz?
Either way I feel this is a strong build for the WB
It will be interesting to see how people run their warbosses, I think a painboy and lucky stik might become a very standard addon to wherever you put da boss. But you might want to take cheap boss just to unlock waaagh. Btw does the warboss have to be alive to call the waaagh?
Redbeard wrote: I'm wait until I play some games to make a final judgement, but I think this is just another example of how GW doesn't know what the hell they're doing, and think random tables will fix everything. And they don't know how people actually play the game.
Since the new marine codex came out, I haven't played a single game against a marine opponent that wasn't running an Eternal Warrior chapter master with 4 wounds and a 3+ inv. save. Not one. Yet, orks can't even have a 5+?
Mob rule has gotten progressively worse through the editions. 3rd ed, you got a mob size roll, with a number of units that would be expected to be smaller, like warbikes, being naturally fearless. 4th ed screwed small units. Now we're just going to self-destruct. Did nobs get any sort of boost, or are they still Ld 7?
I can't believe they made shoota boys more expensive either.
The mob rule has been changed, sure, but whether it's been nerfed or rendered unusable I think is still to be decided. I always thought that fearless was a bit of a cop-out; Tyranids are fearless because they have no minds of their own and are slaves at the synaptic level. The change to the mob rule differentiates them a little better and makes the army more characterful, a couple of wounds on a failed morale check isn't much price for that. (And, strictly speaking, it was the bosspole that got nerfed rather than the mob rule). Being subject to morale checks isn't exactly getting screwed, it's the same thing other armies have to put up with, and at least we have a mob rule to help us stick around.
For all the doom and gloom, look at all we get. We can get 5 large blasts with a 50/50 chance to get ap3 or better, or 5 s8 ap2 blasts, or the best AAA in the game, for just 150 points; we can re-roll a die for charge distance, increasing our effective charge range by 1.5 inches on average, which can be further boosted by boarding planks; a WAAAGH! let's you run before charging, for an average 17" charge range (and that's without a boarding plank or vehicle; that brings it up to a mind-shattering 25" AVERAGE charge range!); KFF gives an invul now and can't be negated by "ignores cover"; painboyz can give any unit FnP, including MANz; Burna boyz and tankbustas can take a trukk, and almost every unit and unit upgrade got cheaper.
Honestly, the mob rule change isn't going to be a huge problem in practice and the loss of an invul hurts but can be mitigated fairly easily. Heavy support and HQ are crowded, sure, but "there's so much awesome stuff that I can't take it all" is a pretty good problem to have. All in all, we've gained far, FAR more than we've lost. I've played orks for nearly 20 years, and this is probably the best codex we've ever had.
The change in the mob rule isn't that big of a deal for me. I feel we can work around it with large units and boss poles. The same way as we used to deal with it.
I am more upset with the increase in points of the shoota boy. I would have liked to see Sluggas cost 5 pts, with shootas being 6. In 6th/7th ed were 6 point shoota boyz really that game breaking?
I am also upset with the stupidity of GW to not allow us to alter our FOC by taking certain HQs. Pretty much forcing us to play unbound.
HalfBlood wrote: The change in the mob rule isn't that big of a deal for me. I feel we can work around it with large units and boss poles. The same way as we used to deal with it.
I am more upset with the increase in points of the shoota boy. I would have liked to see Sluggas cost 5 pts, with shootas being 6. In 6th/7th ed were 6 point shoota boyz really that game breaking?
I am also upset with the stupidity of GW to not allow us to alter our FOC by taking certain HQs. Pretty much forcing us to play unbound.
With being able to run & assault again, I see myself dropping the shoota boys again and going back to sluggas.
Not only have they taken out (from rumors) Wazdakka my friends favorite Boss....but from the rumor mill. I heard they took out MY favorite Boss. ZOGWART..
PLEASE tell me this is just a fething lie?
Old Zogwart was AMAZING! Every player on the planet who makes fun of him is stupid because they never played me before and got to see just how special the Weirdboys and how amazingly awesome Zogwart could had been if used right and in the right kind of army!
PLEASE TELL ME THEY DID NOT REMOVE THE MOST FALVORFUL AND EPIC WARBOSS!!!!!!
Not only have they taken out (from rumors) Wazdakka my friends favorite Boss....but from the rumor mill. I heard they took out MY favorite Boss. ZOGWART..
PLEASE tell me this is just a fething lie?
Old Zogwart was AMAZING! Every player on the planet who makes fun of him is stupid because they never played me before and got to see just how special the Weirdboys and how amazingly awesome Zogwart could had been if used right and in the right kind of army!
PLEASE TELL ME THEY DID NOT REMOVE THE MOST FAILVORFUL AND EPIC WARBOSS!!!!!!
im sorry buddy :( but he's gone. /que the old yella' music.
Dakkamite wrote: Mixed early reaction. Morkanaught is better and cheaper than Gorkanaught.
What I'm wondering, and what I haven't seen asked yet, is are deff dreads any good?
Morkanaught isn't really cheaper with the KFF upgrade it's endsup being more than the Gorkanaught, and I feel the KFF is what makes the Morkanaught better.
3. Removing Looted Wagons from the game, and then putting the rules in a magazine that I, living where I do, have no local vendor that sell it. (I will get the rules online. same as any other "DLC" GW might decide to make for us . That should be free as far as I'm concerned, but that''s a whole other discussion for some other time and place...)
You can buy the digital version of the relevant White Dwarf for the looted wagon from black Library.
I suspect the looted wagon rules being separate is due to idiocy rather than malice, in this case.
Greyhound wrote: I have finished assembling 3 DeffDread on the weekend and I also have 7 kans.
I don't know where to start/stop for the walkers but I'll give them a go.
The wording of the Junka's Force Field Generator is:
Grants all models within 6" of the Junka’s hull (including the Junka itself) a 5+ Cover save.
That seems to be the cheapest "fast" save for the walkers.
im thinking that by bringing 2-3 dreds as troop choices from the IA, a HQ so as to adhere to the FOC and get objective secure, then a Morkanaught from the new dex combined with some big mek with relic fixing (3+),will then just tailor and build around that I think. So I can then add some kans, mek guns or whatever I feel like. I may even add a nice little horde of grots out front acting as a nice little area screen that I can flood objectives with as i advance.
@Dakkamite: Something I never got, really. People say that the nerf to Smash make walkers a viable choice, yet I figured the reason walkers weren't taken is the change to grenades hitting on WS rather than on 6s, which made a walker's main target, space marines, too prickly to assault
You can now a mega armored big mek with KFF which was not possible before. Can you now take a big mek with a bike and KFF? I would like to try that out. Keep him with warbikers to give your fast things a 5++.
They were garbage last edition, and a 2pt drop + the new crappy trukk isn't enough for me to label them as worth it.
@Dakkamite: Something I never got, really. People say that the nerf to Smash make walkers a viable choice, yet I figured the reason walkers weren't taken is the change to grenades hitting on WS rather than on 6s, which made a walker's main target, space marines, too prickly to assault
I always figured a walker wanted to fight vehicles more than anything else. Maybe characters and expensive infantry that can't kill them or swing last. Space Marines wouldn't be my ideal target for them
The main reason nobody brought them was that they were either slow punchy vehicles in an edition that hated punching and hated vehicles, or they were less shooty than the same points of tanks and the assault abilities weren't helpful.
Not certain on that, as I rarely brought walkers because they just died to *everything*
I agree!
).
. That 
should be free as far as I'm concerned, but that''s a whole other discussion for some other time and place...)
