Yeah I’m kinda just gonna be taking a Megaboss and a Weirdboy. I’d possibly also take a beast Snagga squigasour in another detachment. But I’m not really inspired by the others yet.
Tiberius501 wrote: Yeah I’m kinda just gonna be taking a Megaboss and a Weirdboy. I’d possibly also take a beast Snagga squigasour in another detachment. But I’m not really inspired by the others yet.
We have a fairly good selection of WLTs and relics to slap on bosses of different varieties so there's that. I think the Gofftide with Ghaz style is going to really struggle though.
You can also just drop Thrakka into the supreme command detachment and run a pain boss and a kff mek as your battalion HQs.
IMO people are focused too much on making old lists work right now. That the green tide is no longer a top competitive options is not necessarily a bad thing.
Jidmah wrote: You can also just drop Thrakka into the supreme command detachment and run a pain boss and a kff mek as your battalion HQs.
IMO people are focused too much on making old lists work right now. That the green tide is no longer a top competitive options is not necessarily a bad thing.
I don't disagree - I'm exhausted by pushing 120+ models around. I've been doing it a lot since 5th and a change is nice.
I think 2 detachments to double dip on klans will be the way forward.
Big Mek with KFF looks really good. 2CP for the KFF strat is a steal, considering what a 9" bubble, a true invul save and no "wholly within" limitation can do for you.
Yes, he can't keep up, but even for the first two turns it's almost a no-brainer.
I reckon I’m gonna make a list of Goffs, Megaboss, Weirdboy, boyz, Meganobz, Flash Gitz, Kommandos, Dreads, Kanz, Mek Gunz, A Bonebreaka and some Trukks, if I can fit all that into a list lol. Seems fun though.
I’d like to squeeze in some Squig Hogs and a nob on smash a but the rest is already a squeeze.
Jidmah wrote: You can also just drop Thrakka into the supreme command detachment and run a pain boss and a kff mek as your battalion HQs.
IMO people are focused too much on making old lists work right now. That the green tide is no longer a top competitive options is not necessarily a bad thing.
I agree. It takes some time and experience to think with the new codex in mind, typically when a new codex is dropped old combos and tactics don't work anymore except for a few selected options maybe. Personally I hate fielding 30 man blobs so I'm actually very pleased that GW is pushing for other builds, without making boyz a tax.
And I'm also very glad that Dread/Kanz CCWs are now merged into a single profile.
Man, I really would like to know the Kustom Jobs. Mek Workshop at 70 points might have play if they turn out decent. I wonder what the placement rules for the workshop are. Could be a big help for securing one of your home objectives.
I'm looking forward to seeing what combos everyone comes up with, I think 'relearning' how orks play is going to be interesting and I'm also thinking of double klanning, I will stick with my beloved deathskulls for the main part but I'm also planning a snakebite outrider so I can have full on squighog boys cavalry led by Mozrog who is an absolute weapon now. As most of us I'm not very excited about the strats but as people have said I think the strength of our book will be in our stats not strats, keeping an optimistic viewpoint anyway
Depending on your army and how many CP we have and need kff Mek might work… but it’s to early for me to speculate on lists since I still don’t know if zagstrukk makes stormboys even better then they are or if snikrot makes kommandos better, or if maddoc or painboy or makari or painboss is better with ghaz, or if it’s better to just take a mega boss with a snagga boss squigrider, maybe GwFAQs the 2 dozen flavors or +1 to hit and makes one of them better since that’s the laziest dumbest Design for an Aura on every unit in a codex I’ve ever seen. Plus as soon as we get the faq/errata there is a new warzone for orks with more strats to look at. I’m still not even 100% sure specialist mobs remove clan kulturs or how exactly they work other then people speculating about a blurb they read on the early app leak that can be read either way.
gungo wrote: Depending on your army and how many CP we have and need kff Mek might work… but it’s to early for me to speculate on lists since I still don’t know if zagstrukk makes stormboys even better then they are or if snikrot makes kommandos better, or if maddoc or painboy or makari or painboss is better with ghaz, or if it’s better to just take a mega boss with a snagga boss squigrider, maybe GwFAQs the 2 dozen flavors or +1 to hit and makes one of them better since that’s the laziest dumbest Design for an Aura on every unit in a codex I’ve ever seen. Plus as soon as we get the faq/errata there is a new warzone for orks with more strats to look at. I’m still not even 100% sure specialist mobs remove clan kulturs or how exactly they work other then people speculating about a blurb they read on the early app leak that can be read either way.
You are right of course, but speculating is more fun than sitting in silence till next Saturday
Having been completely gone from 40k the last 6 months and trying to get back up to speed, reading these last 15 pages has certainly been a rollercoaster of emotion. I think the book looks pretty strong and I'm excited to try out some new stuff but it also looks like we've lost a bit too much of our zany flavour IMO. And big RIP to my Evil Sunz kultur if there's no way to get dakka weapons to count as assault, but whatever I'm going down with my red ship.
It feels crazy to me that my old joke build of 3x maxed out squads of warbikers might actually be pretty good now, and buggies look legit good even if I had hoped that some of the kustom jobs would've merged into their profile in the new 'dex. The anti-synergy of the rokkitlauncha being heavy on the shokkjump that wants to advance to use its signature ability does annoy me a bit TBH.
Am I crazy or does the new Hunta Rig and Kill Rig look really good? They have a bunch of attacks in CC that aren't super vulnerable to being degraded (unlike battlewagons) and they're T8 even though they're open-topped (again, unlike battlewagons). Yeah the open-topped is restricted in usage but the whole thing is a pretty attractive package a that cost I think. I love the idea of a psyker added on as well, and getting another gun, auto-hitting at that, for not too much added cost seems like a decent deal..?
I think the Killrig is better then hunter rig… the wierdboy on the rig gives it the character keyword and makes several aura abilities pretty strong…
Lots of little things are just changed in this codex that we are still Figuring out. No more healing strat means no way to heal ghaz, even Makari 2++ only works once and can’t be used again if it ever fails.
So killrig is character and you have a 12" T8 -1 Damage 4++ 5+++ mortarion who can be healed every turn. Hes a Transport so he can advance and charge with waaagh and hit at +1 with warboss
I mean, yes there are some wonky interactions with it being a character in regards to WTs and relics but even if they FAQ all that out I still think it has some pretty serious legs. Just being able to chuck out the "Frazzle" power from a unit that I assume has a Knight-sized base sounds pretty darn tasty if it has made its way up to a skirmish in the mid-board.
Also worth keeping in mind a number of potential force multipliers we still know nothing about:
Grotsnik, Snikrot, Zagstruk, Waagh banner, Runtherd, Badrukk, Nob on Squig, etc. Could potentially be seeing some units get stronger and with the warboss restriction theres a lot more reason to look at other hqs
Kebabcito wrote: So killrig is character and you have a 12" T8 -1 Damage 4++ 5+++ mortarion who can be healed every turn. Hes a Transport so he can advance and charge with waaagh and hit at +1 with warboss
FAQ incomin
lol you can also use psykic powers on it like fist of gork.
using the wurzeboy casating it on yourself xD
Im just happy as a new player that my 1x30 boy squad can now be used to fill up a battalion
Now I dont need to paint 60 more boiz just to run more kanz and/or deffdreads! Also, im VERY excited to hear that the afore mentioned heavies are going to be viable picks.
With the leaks so far.... What would you guys say is the most appealing loadout for the dread with the currently available info? Is there some way to make a melee dread good or is it flatout better to run it as a gun platform?
Im thinking 3x10 boy squads in goffs, a trukk/BW with nobz as trukkboiz, maybe some flashgitz amd kanz as artilery and a dread if I have any points left for a 500pts game. Im forgetting the HQ but ill just pick the cheapest i think
I know its too soon for lists but this is a kind of wishlist i want to be able to field.
lol you can also use psykic powers on it like fist of gork.
using the wurzeboy casating it on yourself xD
He cannot cast it on himself as "Fists of Gork" is a Power of da Waaagh power and not a Beasthead power. The Kill Rig only gains access to the Beasthead powers (and smite), so it's down to "Beastscent", "Frazzle" and "Bitin' Jawz"
Kebabcito wrote: So killrig is character and you have a 12" T8 -1 Damage 4++ 5+++ mortarion who can be healed every turn. Hes a Transport so he can advance and charge with waaagh and hit at +1 with warboss
FAQ incomin
lol you can also use psykic powers on it like fist of gork.
using the wurzeboy casating it on yourself xD
lol you can also use psykic powers on it like fist of gork.
using the wurzeboy casating it on yourself xD
He cannot cast it on himself as "Fists of Gork" is a Power of da Waaagh power and not a Beasthead power. The Kill Rig only gains access to the Beasthead powers (and smite), so it's down to "Beastscent", "Frazzle" and "Bitin' Jawz"
spoil sport lol
someone else can cast it on him then
Automatically Appended Next Post: truks and battlewagons have gained ere we go - combined with ramming speed means they have a better chance of making a charge than before
Personally im really not feeling the new snagga stuff at all. It seems so annoyingly self contained. Any given buggy you can take and slot into yoyr list reasonably well but the snaggas really are primaris orks: weirdly disconnected from the rest of the dex, bunch of dubiously useful stat boosts like 6++ and T6 instead of T5, etc, just zero synergies and, her thanks gw, theyve kidnapped like half the content in the codex in terms of strats relics traits etc...
pepi55 wrote: Im just happy as a new player that my 1x30 boy squad can now be used to fill up a battalion
Now I dont need to paint 60 more boiz just to run more kanz and/or deffdreads! Also, im VERY excited to hear that the afore mentioned heavies are going to be viable picks.
With the leaks so far.... What would you guys say is the most appealing loadout for the dread with the currently available info? Is there some way to make a melee dread good or is it flatout better to run it as a gun platform?
Im thinking 3x10 boy squads in goffs, a trukk/BW with nobz as trukkboiz, maybe some flashgitz amd kanz as artilery and a dread if I have any points left for a 500pts game. Im forgetting the HQ but ill just pick the cheapest i think
I know its too soon for lists but this is a kind of wishlist i want to be able to field.
I kind of like 4x arms on the dread tbh, basically a discount marine dread with more offense. I like the way it pairs with rokkit-armed killa kanz - do you shoot the kanz that are hurting you now, or the dread thats gonna barrel into your lines turn 2/3?
gungo wrote: Depending on your army and how many CP we have and need kff Mek might work… but it’s to early for me to speculate on lists since I still don’t know if zagstrukk makes stormboys even better then they are or if snikrot makes kommandos better, or if maddoc or painboy or makari or painboss is better with ghaz, or if it’s better to just take a mega boss with a snagga boss squigrider, maybe GwFAQs the 2 dozen flavors or +1 to hit and makes one of them better since that’s the laziest dumbest Design for an Aura on every unit in a codex I’ve ever seen. Plus as soon as we get the faq/errata there is a new warzone for orks with more strats to look at. I’m still not even 100% sure specialist mobs remove clan kulturs or how exactly they work other then people speculating about a blurb they read on the early app leak that can be read either way.
Especially since you essentially have to take a warboss of some variety, and there reportedly is still a nob with waaagh banner for some odd reason....
Oh, and the Snaggas getting +1 to hit against monsters and vehicles. Redundancy...
gungo wrote: Depending on your army and how many CP we have and need kff Mek might work… but it’s to early for me to speculate on lists since I still don’t know if zagstrukk makes stormboys even better then they are or if snikrot makes kommandos better, or if maddoc or painboy or makari or painboss is better with ghaz, or if it’s better to just take a mega boss with a snagga boss squigrider, maybe GwFAQs the 2 dozen flavors or +1 to hit and makes one of them better since that’s the laziest dumbest Design for an Aura on every unit in a codex I’ve ever seen. Plus as soon as we get the faq/errata there is a new warzone for orks with more strats to look at. I’m still not even 100% sure specialist mobs remove clan kulturs or how exactly they work other then people speculating about a blurb they read on the early app leak that can be read either way.
Especially since you essentially have to take a warboss of some variety, and there reportedly is still a nob with waaagh banner for some odd reason....
Oh, and the Snaggas getting +1 to hit against monsters and vehicles. Redundancy...
Man I been singing this choir since the leaks
I have two major issues with this codex other then removal of mobility Your only allowed 1 warboss or speedboss sooo
Ghaz, mega boss, warboss on bike, warboss on foot, warboss on squigasaur, wartrike, mozrog
Choose one of the above that’s all you will ever get to put in a detachment
After you make that choice..
Any of the above warbosses +1 hit in melee aura
Snagga boss +1 to hit melee aura to snagga only
All snaggas +1 to hit vehicle and monsters
Tankbustas +1 to hit vehicles
Freebooters +1 to hit kultur
Mekboss buzz grob +1 to hit on any dread unit
Waaagh banner +1 to hit aura
Zodgrod superrunts +1 to hit Gretchin unit
And the grot gunners, gitfinders, wing missiles, etc adding +1 to hit
gungo wrote: Depending on your army and how many CP we have and need kff Mek might work… but it’s to early for me to speculate on lists since I still don’t know if zagstrukk makes stormboys even better then they are or if snikrot makes kommandos better, or if maddoc or painboy or makari or painboss is better with ghaz, or if it’s better to just take a mega boss with a snagga boss squigrider, maybe GwFAQs the 2 dozen flavors or +1 to hit and makes one of them better since that’s the laziest dumbest Design for an Aura on every unit in a codex I’ve ever seen. Plus as soon as we get the faq/errata there is a new warzone for orks with more strats to look at. I’m still not even 100% sure specialist mobs remove clan kulturs or how exactly they work other then people speculating about a blurb they read on the early app leak that can be read either way.
Especially since you essentially have to take a warboss of some variety, and there reportedly is still a nob with waaagh banner for some odd reason....
Oh, and the Snaggas getting +1 to hit against monsters and vehicles. Redundancy...
Man I been singing this choir since the leaks
I have two major issues with this codex other then removal of mobility Your only allowed 1 warboss or speedboss sooo
Ghaz, mega boss, warboss on bike, warboss on foot, warboss on squigasaur, wartrike, mozrog
Choose one of the above that’s all you will ever get to put in a detachment
After you make that choice..
Any of the above warbosses +1 hit in melee aura
Snagga boss +1 to hit melee aura to snagga only
All snaggas +1 to hit vehicle and monsters
Tankbustas +1 to hit vehicles
Freebooters +1 to hit kultur
Mekboss buzz grob +1 to hit on any dread unit
Waaagh banner +1 to hit aura
I think I’m missing 1-2 more abilities
its 1 warboss or wartrike per detatchment not per army
speedboss isn't mentioned.....
Do we have a profile for the (on foot) snagga warboss BTW? But yeah, a lot of different +1 to hit abilities in a edition where it's caps off a +1 is sort of odd.. I guess we can try and stack it up so even PKs/killsaws hit on 2's but unfortunately those are mostly on normal orks and not the snaggas who have an easier time to pull that off.
gungo wrote: Depending on your army and how many CP we have and need kff Mek might work… but it’s to early for me to speculate on lists since I still don’t know if zagstrukk makes stormboys even better then they are or if snikrot makes kommandos better, or if maddoc or painboy or makari or painboss is better with ghaz, or if it’s better to just take a mega boss with a snagga boss squigrider, maybe GwFAQs the 2 dozen flavors or +1 to hit and makes one of them better since that’s the laziest dumbest Design for an Aura on every unit in a codex I’ve ever seen. Plus as soon as we get the faq/errata there is a new warzone for orks with more strats to look at. I’m still not even 100% sure specialist mobs remove clan kulturs or how exactly they work other then people speculating about a blurb they read on the early app leak that can be read either way.
Especially since you essentially have to take a warboss of some variety, and there reportedly is still a nob with waaagh banner for some odd reason....
Oh, and the Snaggas getting +1 to hit against monsters and vehicles. Redundancy...
Man I been singing this choir since the leaks
I have two major issues with this codex other then removal of mobility Your only allowed 1 warboss or speedboss sooo
Ghaz, mega boss, warboss on bike, warboss on foot, warboss on squigasaur, wartrike, mozrog
Choose one of the above that’s all you will ever get to put in a detachment
After you make that choice..
Any of the above warbosses +1 hit in melee aura
Snagga boss +1 to hit melee aura to snagga only
All snaggas +1 to hit vehicle and monsters
Tankbustas +1 to hit vehicles
Freebooters +1 to hit kultur
Mekboss buzz grob +1 to hit on any dread unit
Waaagh banner +1 to hit aura
I think I’m missing 1-2 more abilities
its 1 warboss or wartrike per detatchment not per army
speedboss isn't mentioned.....
Currently the only speedboss is wartrike
And I said detachment not army
PiñaColada wrote: Do we have a profile for the (on foot) snagga warboss BTW? But yeah, a lot of different +1 to hit abilities in a edition where it's caps off a +1 is sort of odd.. I guess we can try and stack it up so even PKs/killsaws hit on 2's but unfortunately those are mostly on normal orks and not the snaggas who have an easier time to pull that off.
gungo wrote: Depending on your army and how many CP we have and need kff Mek might work… but it’s to early for me to speculate on lists since I still don’t know if zagstrukk makes stormboys even better then they are or if snikrot makes kommandos better, or if maddoc or painboy or makari or painboss is better with ghaz, or if it’s better to just take a mega boss with a snagga boss squigrider, maybe GwFAQs the 2 dozen flavors or +1 to hit and makes one of them better since that’s the laziest dumbest Design for an Aura on every unit in a codex I’ve ever seen. Plus as soon as we get the faq/errata there is a new warzone for orks with more strats to look at. I’m still not even 100% sure specialist mobs remove clan kulturs or how exactly they work other then people speculating about a blurb they read on the early app leak that can be read either way.
Especially since you essentially have to take a warboss of some variety, and there reportedly is still a nob with waaagh banner for some odd reason....
Oh, and the Snaggas getting +1 to hit against monsters and vehicles. Redundancy...
Man I been singing this choir since the leaks
I have two major issues with this codex other then removal of mobility Your only allowed 1 warboss or speedboss sooo
Ghaz, mega boss, warboss on bike, warboss on foot, warboss on squigasaur, wartrike, mozrog
Choose one of the above that’s all you will ever get to put in a detachment
After you make that choice..
Any of the above warbosses +1 hit in melee aura
Snagga boss +1 to hit melee aura to snagga only
All snaggas +1 to hit vehicle and monsters
Tankbustas +1 to hit vehicles
Freebooters +1 to hit kultur
Mekboss buzz grob +1 to hit on any dread unit
Waaagh banner +1 to hit aura
I think I’m missing 1-2 more abilities
its 1 warboss or wartrike per detatchment not per army
speedboss isn't mentioned.....
Currently the only speedboss is wartrike
And I said detachment not army
gungo wrote: Depending on your army and how many CP we have and need kff Mek might work… but it’s to early for me to speculate on lists since I still don’t know if zagstrukk makes stormboys even better then they are or if snikrot makes kommandos better, or if maddoc or painboy or makari or painboss is better with ghaz, or if it’s better to just take a mega boss with a snagga boss squigrider, maybe GwFAQs the 2 dozen flavors or +1 to hit and makes one of them better since that’s the laziest dumbest Design for an Aura on every unit in a codex I’ve ever seen. Plus as soon as we get the faq/errata there is a new warzone for orks with more strats to look at. I’m still not even 100% sure specialist mobs remove clan kulturs or how exactly they work other then people speculating about a blurb they read on the early app leak that can be read either way.
Especially since you essentially have to take a warboss of some variety, and there reportedly is still a nob with waaagh banner for some odd reason....
Oh, and the Snaggas getting +1 to hit against monsters and vehicles. Redundancy...
Man I been singing this choir since the leaks
I have two major issues with this codex other then removal of mobility Your only allowed 1 warboss or speedboss sooo
Ghaz, mega boss, warboss on bike, warboss on foot, warboss on squigasaur, wartrike, mozrog
Choose one of the above that’s all you will ever get to put in a detachment
After you make that choice..
Any of the above warbosses +1 hit in melee aura
Snagga boss +1 to hit melee aura to snagga only
All snaggas +1 to hit vehicle and monsters
Tankbustas +1 to hit vehicles
Freebooters +1 to hit kultur
Mekboss buzz grob +1 to hit on any dread unit
Waaagh banner +1 to hit aura
And the grot gunners on multiple vehicles adding +1 to hit
I think I’m missing 1-2 more abilities too
biggest issue i am worried about is leadership.....taking casualties and having alot of units die for free in a leadership test is heart breaking
Automatically Appended Next Post: with mech gunz in squads at leadership 4 ........not viable.
unless you want full mech guns fleeing
Automatically Appended Next Post:
grot shield got a buff....kind of. no more rolling a 2+ to keep your more valuable infantry safe. they just can't be targetted
gretchin are kind of expensive these days soo, i dunno
20+ Model units are not viable
Fortunately we can do what most armies do 5-10 model units. I mean you can do a single large squad if you want to dedicate auto pass morale to it but there is no benefit to any large unit anymore.. the only transports we have are 11 or 20 anyway.
If you want Mek guns just put them in single units or 2 per slot. I wouldn’t spam them.
U can stack Gretchin buffs to make them decent. Zodgrod makes a super Gretchin unit (with another +1 to hit aura) and makari gives them ld6.
Ugh I missed the part where you only get one Warboss. I usually run a Warboss on Warbike and regular Warboss (inside a battlewagon) for my armys. If I want to do that now does that require two detachments?
The nice thing about the dex is that there are now a few ways to let MSU sluggas do work, with -1 AP and either S5 through Snaggas or S5 with Goffs, or Trukk Boyz getting to disembark after movement. And +1 attack via Waaagh.
What puzzles me is why you would get more than 3x10 boyz of the slugga or snagga varieties with so many more capable things in the new codex. I think they are now firmly in "troop tax" territory.
LOL SPIKED RAM ON SCRAPJETS DEALS D3 MWs ON 4s FOR EACH ENEMY MODEL IN THE SELECTED UNIT
Sadly faq incoming as it would mean you wipe out any 1w infantry squad you charge on average just with the spiked ram. Or have my eyes failed me and I misread (all three times…)
Édit nope I read that correctly. Hah hah GW you silly boy you
Btw regarding Thraka, the nerf is clearly because of his double waagh there, which will really be great I think.
This codex is really strong. Probably too much actually. Goff kommandos on WTC terrain will hide and charge t1 if enemy comes close to them, which the opponent will have to if he wants his midfield objectives.
45 kommandos (15*3) and 45 stormboyz (15*3), all Goff, will probably be in my first list. Along with Ghazghkull, and some shooting (killa kans and sguig rukkatrukks).
Scrapjets are obviously bugged so for now, and good sport will not play them with the new bugged spiked ram rule
Shootas imho only work in a badmoons detachment… 9in for an extra shot is pretty bad but 24in range and 12in for the extra shots is decent… it all depends on what else badmoons offer to see if it is even worth taking and sadly they removed the shoot twice strat and reroll 1 kultur that made badmoons decent.
Shootas imho only work in a badmoons detachment… 9in for an extra shot is pretty bad but 24in range and 12in for the extra shots is decent… it all depends on what else badmoons offer to see if it is even worth taking and sadly they removed the shoot twice strat and reroll 1 kultur that made badmoons decent.
Thanks, but it is thanks to Jidmah who pointed out page 199 the readable format in his link.
Thanks
Hah hah I am still laughing with the spiked ram rule. Let’s call it the Spike Lee Ram rule for now, or Super Spike Ram (SSR)
I'm not able to view the big leak images that Jidmah linked, my ISP disagrees with it for some reason but not the earlier ones.
From one of the other links, it doesn't look like the Squigboss has the Warboss keyword, and so should be able to be taken alongside a Warboss on a detachment. Can anyone confirm if that is the case please?
Also, any word on whether smasha nobs are fast attack or elites?
Well, it seems buggy list will suffer even bigger trafic jam…. Buggies are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper. That is cool.
And the Spiked Ram is crazy brutal. It is good even if couted as per model in my unit - 3 scrapjets deal 3D3 MW on 4+ = 3MW in average with the scale from 0 to 9!!!
3 Termies dead before the fight? Bloody hell
Automatically Appended Next Post: Big Trakk ahs also the Spiked Ram!
Afrodactyl wrote: From one of the other links, it doesn't look like the Squigboss has the Warboss keyword, and so should be able to be taken alongside a Warboss on a detachment. Can anyone confirm if that is the case please?
Afrodactyl wrote: From one of the other links, it doesn't look like the Squigboss has the Warboss keyword, and so should be able to be taken alongside a Warboss on a detachment. Can anyone confirm if that is the case please?
Can confirm he has WARBOSS keyword.
Well that's mildly annoying. Looks like it will be two patrols for me then instead of a battalion.
addnid wrote: LOL SPIKED RAM ON SCRAPJETS DEALS D3 MWs ON 4s FOR EACH ENEMY MODEL IN THE SELECTED UNIT
Sadly faq incoming as it would mean you wipe out any 1w infantry squad you charge on average just with the spiked ram. Or have my eyes failed me and I misread (all three times…)
Édit nope I read that correctly. Hah hah GW you silly boy you
Btw regarding Thraka, the nerf is clearly because of his double waagh there, which will really be great I think.
This codex is really strong. Probably too much actually. Goff kommandos on WTC terrain will hide and charge t1 if enemy comes close to them, which the opponent will have to if he wants his midfield objectives.
45 kommandos (15*3) and 45 stormboyz (15*3), all Goff, will probably be in my first list. Along with Ghazghkull, and some shooting (killa kans and sguig rukkatrukks).
Scrapjets are obviously bugged so for now, and good sport will not play them with the new bugged spiked ram rule
Boosta-blastas too. I assumed I'd find the correct wording on that entry but they've both got the wrong one. Could still be an app-specific mistake, like all the ap0 choppas lying around.
*Edit: Yea gotta read rules carefully - it's worded "this unit", meaning the unit the Spiked Ram belongs to. It's just allowing for a unit of 3 Skrapjets to inflict up to 3D3 mortal wounds, though worth nothing you only need one of them in engagement range to trigger all of them.
addnid wrote: LOL SPIKED RAM ON SCRAPJETS DEALS D3 MWs ON 4s FOR EACH ENEMY MODEL IN THE SELECTED UNIT
Sadly faq incoming as it would mean you wipe out any 1w infantry squad you charge on average just with the spiked ram. Or have my eyes failed me and I misread (all three times…)
Édit nope I read that correctly. Hah hah GW you silly boy you
Btw regarding Thraka, the nerf is clearly because of his double waagh there, which will really be great I think.
This codex is really strong. Probably too much actually. Goff kommandos on WTC terrain will hide and charge t1 if enemy comes close to them, which the opponent will have to if he wants his midfield objectives.
45 kommandos (15*3) and 45 stormboyz (15*3), all Goff, will probably be in my first list. Along with Ghazghkull, and some shooting (killa kans and sguig rukkatrukks).
Scrapjets are obviously bugged so for now, and good sport will not play them with the new bugged spiked ram rule
Boosta-blastas too. I assumed I'd find the correct wording on that entry but they've both got the wrong one. Could still be an app-specific mistake, like all the ap0 choppas lying around.
*Edit: Yea gotta read rules carefully - it's worded "this unit", meaning the unit the Spiked Ram belongs to. It's just allowing for a unit of 3 Skrapjets to inflict up to 3D3 mortal wounds, though worth nothing you only need one of them in engagement range to trigger all of them.
yeah its because speed mob is gone, they don't seperate and act as individual models anymore, so they added extra wording to say it triggers a spiked ram ability per model in the buggy unit
i.e. 3 x scrapjets = 3x spiked rams
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kustom job for shokattack gun makes it 2D3 shots
and with big meks being BS 4 now
and beast snagger+1 to wound or freebooter +1 to hit there are options opening up for a return of the SAG
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more kustom jobs, we haven't seen many of these yet but they look good
Zzapkrumpa is really weird that it only works on CC, which means it really is relegated to only being used by burna boyz, who have already been nerfed when it comes to their CC since their AP-2 profile is a 1CP strat for some bizarre reason. I could see it being okay if they had kept their baseline AP-2 profile in CC, but given that it makes them more expensive on top of not wanting being in CC now with burnas getting the D6 shot buff, it feels like a wasted kustom job.
Also, is there a conflict with the souped up spehul upgrade? It says to change it to a dakka profile and then the profile below is Assault 15 at S4 AP-1?
Technically based on leaks it says "Warboss or Deffkilla Wartike" and not "WARBOSS or SPEEDBOSS"
The sheer amount of lazitude present in this dex is almost incredible tbh. Theres so much with just clearly so, so little thought put in.
For example, check out the interaction between Trukk Boyz and Open Topped: they give the trukk +1 to hit, big whoop, oh wait the modifiers applying to the trukk apply to the passengers, so all trukk boy shoota boyz are hitting on 4s!
I have to say, I'm genuinely surprised by how much negativity there is - the leaks so far make this codex seem like a huge leap in power. Honestly, 30-strong mobs of boyz are not any worse than they were, they just don't get to keep all the buffs to themselves any more. Mob rule is still good for them, not as good as previously but with the changes in morale from 8th to 9th failing a morale check doesn't evaporate a unit the way it used to, and now it's useful for smaller units as well.
Main advantage of bigger units will be the usual - more bang for you buck with buffs, da jump, and so on. I can see a lot of armies keeping a single 30-strong unit around just for that. Or, honestly, just put them under a kff, sit them on an objective, and challenge your opponent to chew through 30 T5 6++ Obsec models before the rest of your army rips him apart. Sure, admech will do it, but not much else will manage it efficiently, and if you're facing admech then use them for something else like da jump.
As much as the Goff kultur got a huge boost and is inarguably the killiest, I think people are underestimating the value of the snakebites mini-transhuman. Sure, it's not as good as transhuman in that it stops at S8, but transhuman is a stratagem that only works on infantry, only one unit at a time, and costs CP. Snakebite kultur is always on, permanent, army-wide, and affects everything. It affects vehicles, bikes, aircraft, everything. All the time. It nullifies +1 to wound effects. It nullifies toughness penalties. Dropping the effectiveness of the vast majority of your opponent's mid-damage (ie S6-7, D2) shooting by 25% (from wounding on 3+ to wounding on 4+) seems a pretty significant durability boost to me.
the_scotsman wrote: Technically based on leaks it says "Warboss or Deffkilla Wartike" and not "WARBOSS or SPEEDBOSS"
The sheer amount of lazitude present in this dex is almost incredible tbh. Theres so much with just clearly so, so little thought put in.
For example, check out the interaction between Trukk Boyz and Open Topped: they give the trukk +1 to hit, big whoop, oh wait the modifiers applying to the trukk apply to the passengers, so all trukk boy shoota boyz are hitting on 4s!
The +1 modifier only applies while the Trukk is shooting. When the boyz are shooting, the trukk is not shooting.
The amount of lazitude evident in some people's desire to try to find something to whinge about is almost incredible.
addnid wrote: LOL SPIKED RAM ON SCRAPJETS DEALS D3 MWs ON 4s FOR EACH ENEMY MODEL IN THE SELECTED UNIT
Sadly faq incoming as it would mean you wipe out any 1w infantry squad you charge on average just with the spiked ram. Or have my eyes failed me and I misread (all three times…)
Édit nope I read that correctly. Hah hah GW you silly boy you
Btw regarding Thraka, the nerf is clearly because of his double waagh there, which will really be great I think.
This codex is really strong. Probably too much actually. Goff kommandos on WTC terrain will hide and charge t1 if enemy comes close to them, which the opponent will have to if he wants his midfield objectives.
45 kommandos (15*3) and 45 stormboyz (15*3), all Goff, will probably be in my first list. Along with Ghazghkull, and some shooting (killa kans and sguig rukkatrukks).
Scrapjets are obviously bugged so for now, and good sport will not play them with the new bugged spiked ram rule
why WOULDNT they deal D3 mortal wounds on a +4? They USED to do that already when you used them individually prior to the new codex.
So when they're in 1 single unit, why should this rule change?
addnid wrote: LOL SPIKED RAM ON SCRAPJETS DEALS D3 MWs ON 4s FOR EACH ENEMY MODEL IN THE SELECTED UNIT
Sadly faq incoming as it would mean you wipe out any 1w infantry squad you charge on average just with the spiked ram. Or have my eyes failed me and I misread (all three times…)
Édit nope I read that correctly. Hah hah GW you silly boy you
Btw regarding Thraka, the nerf is clearly because of his double waagh there, which will really be great I think.
This codex is really strong. Probably too much actually. Goff kommandos on WTC terrain will hide and charge t1 if enemy comes close to them, which the opponent will have to if he wants his midfield objectives.
45 kommandos (15*3) and 45 stormboyz (15*3), all Goff, will probably be in my first list. Along with Ghazghkull, and some shooting (killa kans and sguig rukkatrukks).
Scrapjets are obviously bugged so for now, and good sport will not play them with the new bugged spiked ram rule
SPIKED RAM reads: "After THIS unit [...] roll one D6 for each model THIS unit contains [...]"
There is no need for GW to rephrase anything here, allthough I read it the way you did at first too...
the_scotsman wrote: Technically based on leaks it says "Warboss or Deffkilla Wartike" and not "WARBOSS or SPEEDBOSS"
The sheer amount of lazitude present in this dex is almost incredible tbh. Theres so much with just clearly so, so little thought put in.
For example, check out the interaction between Trukk Boyz and Open Topped: they give the trukk +1 to hit, big whoop, oh wait the modifiers applying to the trukk apply to the passengers, so all trukk boy shoota boyz are hitting on 4s!
omfg nice find!
Edit.. oh.. it seems that open topped vehicles dont give modifiers to its passengers anymore.
I wonder if goff tankhammers gets 2 hits if you hit with a 6 then. the new D6 damage profile for tankhammers looks pretty tasty.
Lol sorry but I get really disappointed when I read the kustom jobs.
Why do we have to roll for +1 attack AFTER paying points for an upgrade?
Also the roller used to be flat 6 additional hits rather than d3+3
Smokey gubbins was -1 to hit, now it's +1 save to an unit containing a spanner (so lootaz and burnaz??) AND THEY HAVE TO REMAIN STATIONARY
Quick question... The kustom jobs say replace existing weapons... So I'd have to pay 15points for the killkannon and 15 points for da booma? So 30points for 2d6 s8 ap2 D2???
Mel gunz seem pretty useless, cause of morale unless taken as individual units of three
Because lose one and there's a like a 40% chance of loosing two more....
Grot Mega Tank takes 7 KMB, gets +7 shots for 10 points.
That's good.
7d3 + 7 attacks, average of 21. You'll probably make your points back
Do we know for certain that kustom jobs are now per model on units that split after deployment? I would very much like 12 free shots across three dreds for 3.333 points each.
pepi55 wrote: With the leaks so far.... What would you guys say is the most appealing loadout for the dread with the currently available info? Is there some way to make a melee dread good or is it flatout better to run it as a gun platform?
I think 1-2 KMB and rest klaws sound like the sweet spot, neither rokkits nor big shootas are anything worth talking about. Though I do see someone going bonkers with a quad skorcha dread since it can shoot in combat now and essentially fights firster than anyone. Oh, and 4d6 flamer hits from deep strike. Too bad my dreads only have the lower two arms magnetized
office_waaagh wrote: I have to say, I'm genuinely surprised by how much negativity there is - the leaks so far make this codex seem like a huge leap in power. Honestly, 30-strong mobs of boyz are not any worse than they were, they just don't get to keep all the buffs to themselves any more. Mob rule is still good for them, not as good as previously but with the changes in morale from 8th to 9th failing a morale check doesn't evaporate a unit the way it used to, and now it's useful for smaller units as well.
Main advantage of bigger units will be the usual - more bang for you buck with buffs, da jump, and so on. I can see a lot of armies keeping a single 30-strong unit around just for that. Or, honestly, just put them under a kff, sit them on an objective, and challenge your opponent to chew through 30 T5 6++ Obsec models before the rest of your army rips him apart. Sure, admech will do it, but not much else will manage it efficiently, and if you're facing admech then use them for something else like da jump.
Agree, but the (percieved) loss aversion is a strong force and hence the gut feeling is do not touch. But, interestingly enough are Boyz more durable in the fact that as objective sitters that must be meleed away they retain the 6++ to the end. The "problem" people focus on is the Boyz nerf by moving the bonus attacks into the Waagh! rule and dependency on the Warboss for other bonuses. To me it's arguable how much nerf it really is.
the_scotsman wrote: Personally im really not feeling the new snagga stuff at all. It seems so annoyingly self contained. Any given buggy you can take and slot into yoyr list reasonably well but the snaggas really are primaris orks: weirdly disconnected from the rest of the dex, bunch of dubiously useful stat boosts like 6++ and T6 instead of T5, etc, just zero synergies and, her thanks gw, theyve kidnapped like half the content in the codex in terms of strats relics traits etc...
I don't know, the boar boyz seem to fit really well with the buggy list, as they have a similar speed and defensive profile, but have the melee punch that both warbikers and buggies were missing so far. I might even drop the warboss on warbike for the squigosaur boss, just to scare the pants off my opponents with its 3MW bites.
Also, buggies and dinosaurs. Nuff said.
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Afrodactyl wrote: I'm not able to view the big leak images that Jidmah linked, my ISP disagrees with it for some reason but not the earlier ones.
Depending on your device, you might need to download he image first to view it properly.
pepi55 wrote: With the leaks so far.... What would you guys say is the most appealing loadout for the dread with the currently available info? Is there some way to make a melee dread good or is it flatout better to run it as a gun platform?
I think 1-2 KMB and rest klaws sound like the sweet spot, neither rokkits nor big shootas are anything worth talking about. Though I do see someone going bonkers with a quad skorcha dread since it can shoot in combat now and essentially fights firster than anyone. Oh, and 4d6 flamer hits from deep strike. Too bad my dreads only have the lower two arms magnetized
given orks is my only faction my 2 deff dreads that i have arent magnetized at all..
Ah my bad for the spiked ram, so you only need to bring one buggy within 1' of the unit you are charging, that is good, the it is 1d3 MW on a 4+ per buggy.
Do we know if flash gits are still klan locked to freebootas ?
So while mek gun spam is pretty much dead due to morale most likely I will say that KMK's are really quite good now. Same stats as before but just 45 points a pop, if you run multiple detachments for access to more than one warboss and have a few floating points and an unused HS slot then they're looking zoggin' decent.
Edit: How in the world is a big choppa now 3 points (great) but powerstabbas are still 5 points! This doesn't make any sense!
Edit 2: I suppose that it might be a mistake and they haven't updated the power stabba profile since the choppa profile in the same datasheet (the nob one) says that choppas are AP-0 and not AP-1
nope sheet is still incomplete... and i am really scratching my head why snazzguns arent dakka..
they are the EMBODYMENT of dakka weapons
dakkajets do look sweet though, if they stay at 100 points. but i doubt they will, my guess 10 points per supashoota, which will bring them to 140-160 and make them still useless (maybe ok in a speedwhaagh)
pepi55 wrote: With the leaks so far.... What would you guys say is the most appealing loadout for the dread with the currently available info? Is there some way to make a melee dread good or is it flatout better to run it as a gun platform?
I think 1-2 KMB and rest klaws sound like the sweet spot, neither rokkits nor big shootas are anything worth talking about. Though I do see someone going bonkers with a quad skorcha dread since it can shoot in combat now and essentially fights firster than anyone. Oh, and 4d6 flamer hits from deep strike. Too bad my dreads only have the lower two arms magnetized
Mine is entirely "magnetized" with poster putty so I still have all my options I do wonder why everyone reccomends magnetizing when putty works basically the same way while still keeping your options open in case you eventually decide you do wanna stick with only one loadout?
So its all out on flamers or keep 1 gun? I was honestly expecting something like 2 klaws 1 saw and a flamer since that loadout was used in 8th as wel iirc and it seems better now.
Did you guys notice that the tellyport mega-blastas are sort of crazy now? they come in pairs on the wazbom and -per gun- they are:
Assault D6 24" S9 AP-2 DMG D3+3 and blast.
The potential damage output is completely bonkers, remember that a wazbom is straight up BS4+ now
To me 2 CCWs and 2 MKBs still look nice on dreads, especially if Deathskulls, which is how my army has always been painted.
KMKs do look nice indeed, they got like 33% cheaper. But I'm also tempted to field Traktor, I know they're single shot but high BS and flat high damage really look fun.
Since our stratagems look like garbage I don't think spared slots would be a problem, I'm expecting multiple detachments to be quite common.
pepi55 wrote: Because it is funny to see our reactions to dreads not being core I presume
funnies aside, what would that mean exactly? no waaagh for the dreads?
They're vehicles which means the Speedwaaagh bonus applies, so they get the -1AP bonus for the shooting phase in the waaagh turn. Full close combat dreads don't get anything from waaagh.
Well, only dakka weapons get the bonus additional 1 AP (and extra shots) so it's only relevant for big shootas, which are a pretty lame loadout on deff dreads IMO.
Edit: I'm an idiot,every ranged weapon gets an additional AP, but only dakka weapons get more shots. That's way better!
the_scotsman wrote: Technically based on leaks it says "Warboss or Deffkilla Wartike" and not "WARBOSS or SPEEDBOSS"
The sheer amount of lazitude present in this dex is almost incredible tbh. Theres so much with just clearly so, so little thought put in.
For example, check out the interaction between Trukk Boyz and Open Topped: they give the trukk +1 to hit, big whoop, oh wait the modifiers applying to the trukk apply to the passengers, so all trukk boy shoota boyz are hitting on 4s!
The app has none of the keywords bolded, and there are some other obvious mistakes like the gorkanaut's weapon. Let's wait for the codex before we bombard their mail address with FAQs, there is a good chance the person entering it in the app screwed some things up.
pepi55 wrote: Because it is funny to see our reactions to dreads not being core I presume
funnies aside, what would that mean exactly? no waaagh for the dreads?
They're vehicles which means the Speedwaaagh bonus applies, so they get the -1AP bonus for the shooting phase in the waaagh turn. Full close combat dreads don't get anything from waaagh.
the normal waaagh still gives +1 attack to all models i believe. not just core. I think it was just core that could advance and charge.
RedNoak wrote: yeah but buggies need to be fielded in units... i have absolutley no idea how to pull that off with their big ass bases
With the warbiker buff and koptas looking really good, an outrider detachment has almost become mandatory anyways, so I'll be going to 4x2 buggies. Since the boomdakka snazzwagons seems to have once again won the "you're the gakky one!" lottery, it's probably going to be two each of KBB, SJD, scrap jet and squigbuggy.
pepi55 wrote: With the leaks so far.... What would you guys say is the most appealing loadout for the dread with the currently available info? Is there some way to make a melee dread good or is it flatout better to run it as a gun platform?
I think 1-2 KMB and rest klaws sound like the sweet spot, neither rokkits nor big shootas are anything worth talking about. Though I do see someone going bonkers with a quad skorcha dread since it can shoot in combat now and essentially fights firster than anyone. Oh, and 4d6 flamer hits from deep strike. Too bad my dreads only have the lower two arms magnetized
Mine is entirely "magnetized" with poster putty so I still have all my options I do wonder why everyone reccomends magnetizing when putty works basically the same way while still keeping your options open in case you eventually decide you do wanna stick with only one loadout?
You will see in 8-10 years The only reason I didn't magnetize the upper arms because the rules didn't allow you to change those for other weapons when I build them.
So its all out on flamers or keep 1 gun? I was honestly expecting something like 2 klaws 1 saw and a flamer since that loadout was used in 8th as wel iirc and it seems better now.
Saws are no more. But yeah, keeping a single klaw to upgrade the basic attack is probably a good idea.
As a very buggy and bike heavy mechanised player I'm certainly looking at a Patrol+Outrider combo. It seems like a decent balance between slots and CP cost.
I do wonder if GW keep overvaluing that -1 to hit on the boomdakka because it costs the same as a skrapjet now and that just seems silly.
PiñaColada wrote: Did you guys notice that the tellyport mega-blastas are sort of crazy now? they come in pairs on the wazbom and -per gun- they are:
Assault D6 24" S9 AP-2 DMG D3+3 and blast.
The potential damage output is completely bonkers, remember that a wazbom is straight up BS4+ now
Yeah, I noticed that, and it kept the 5++. It looks better than kannon wagons right now IMO, might finally have to start scrounging the bits box to mek up one of my planes. To bad you can't get the upgrade sprue anywhere separately, I really don't need a fourth plane.
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Not Online!!! wrote: boy... warbikas actually look like something interesting for all orks?
i do still wonder though how their t is like a normal boy but they somehow picked up 2 magic biker wounds? Certainly the better deal imo.
GW probably just finally burried the thoughts of hard-wiring stats to toughness/wounds/armor even when they don't make sense. 3W T5 bikers are probably better for everyone than 2W T6 bikers.
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PiñaColada wrote: As a very buggy and bike heavy mechanised player I'm certainly looking at a Patrol+Outrider combo. It seems like a decent balance between slots and CP cost.
I do wonder if GW keep overvaluing that -1 to hit on the boomdakka because it costs the same as a skrapjet now and that just seems silly.
The kustom job also is hilariously bad - change Assault 15 to Dakka 16/12. Gee, thanks, that extra shot at half range is totally worth 10 points and giving up advance and shoot!
I guess I misread the kustom job as I thought it was the other way around, change dakka 12/16 to assault 15. I mean, I still wouldn't do it but if it's what you say then it's pretty much paying points for the privilege of a worse gun. How amazing of a player are you when you start looking at those "upgrades" to even up games?
Does anyone know if we keep sparkly bits or another way to get our dreads or nauts to BS4 ? Apologies if I've missed it, was always one of my go to custom jobs for my shooty dreads
MrStressy wrote: Does anyone know if we keep sparkly bits or another way to get our dreads or nauts to BS4 ? Apologies if I've missed it, was always one of my go to custom jobs for my shooty dreads
The list of kustom jobs looks very incomplete, many of the previous ones seem to be there and I wouldn't be surprised if many more have made it.
MrStressy wrote: Does anyone know if we keep sparkly bits or another way to get our dreads or nauts to BS4 ? Apologies if I've missed it, was always one of my go to custom jobs for my shooty dreads
as far as i know no info on that yet
by the way... tellyporta is still 2cp and 20power level BUT no monsters can be tellyported... so no ghaz nor squiggoth :/
gunwagon is a side grade at best... you'll get less hits with da boomer, its costs 5 points more but u'll save one CP... quite meh in my oppinion (especially with the nerfed clan traits)
The putty will dry up and you will keep buying new putty to replace it, so nothing terrible unless a bit falls off and breaks/gets lost. If you spend a few hours on magnetizing your models, you will never have to bother with it again, and you can easily store the extra options by sticking them to something magnetic.
MrStressy wrote: Does anyone know if we keep sparkly bits or another way to get our dreads or nauts to BS4 ? Apologies if I've missed it, was always one of my go to custom jobs for my shooty dreads
Even if the known kustom jobs are all we get In The new book. We should get more jobs/strats in the campaign book that comes out shortly after the codex.
If it’s not there I think the only way to increase the BS is buzzgrob fw Mek.
pepi55 wrote: In other news: I lucked out biiiiiig time. an LGS in my country had one box of snaggas left!!!
Im excited to get the codex and it to be outdated the moment I finish reading it
Congrats, but please stop parroting that gak. The codices are usually not outdated because they receive errata and FAQs unless GW does something super-stupid like they did with 8th edition's SW codex.
Congrats, but please stop parroting that gak. The codices are usually not outdated because they receive errata and FAQs unless GW does something super-stupid like they did with 8th edition's SW codex.
Okay good to hear. I mostly repeated what I heard/read earlier
MrStressy wrote: Does anyone know if we keep sparkly bits or another way to get our dreads or nauts to BS4 ? Apologies if I've missed it, was always one of my go to custom jobs for my shooty dreads
Even if the known kustom jobs are all we get In The new book. We should get more jobs/strats in the campaign book that comes out shortly after the codex.
If it’s not there I think the only way to increase the BS is buzzgrob fw Mek.
Don't expect too much from the campaign. For DG all the rules are either gak or merely nice to have - the ork equivalent would probably be something like getting a dreadmob army of renown. Nice for some people, but does nothing if you don't play that kind of army.
I honestly hope the book of rust and the repackaged chaos stuff bombed hard enough to teach them a lesson.
I kinda wouldn’t be surprised if they give us a green tide rule in the campaign book, as they’ve made it less useful in the codex.
Personally I can’t stand these campaign books giving armies extra rules. Pay to win DLC in war games and just extra ways to skew balance is not my cup of tea.
Not to mention the fact that they’re coming out at the same time as the books, when they could’ve just put some of the rules in the actual codex themselves instead of splitting it up between books. But, ya know, monaaaayyyy.
For everyone wondering here all all leaked kustom jobs:
Spoiler:
Enhanced Runt sucker 15points (NEW) pure garbage
for SAG 2d3 shots instead of d6
Extra Kustom Weapon 10pts (NEW) could be nice for 4 kmb dreads
+1 attack per kmb
stompomatic pistons 15pts (kinda the same, but overall NERF imho) ok'ish but costed rather highly and can't take on kanz, +1 advance isntead of old reroll
deffs, gorks, morks only
+3" to move, +1" to advance
zzapkrumpaz 2pts per model (NEW) 13pts burnas would do some mw in combat... meh
mobs with spannerz only
6's to wound in melee do 1 mw in addtion
fortress 20pts (NERF) lost +1 to save
trukk/wagons 5++
more dakka 15pts (NEW) since you have to roll... hot garbage. would've been nice for dakkajets (if supashootas get dakka rule)
on 4+ do 1 additional shot per dakka weapon. on a 6 get two extra shots
nitro squigs (SAME)
squigbuggys only
+1 to wound for heavy squig launcha
red rolla 20pts (NERF) was straight 6 attacks before
red rolla does d3+3 attacks instead of d6
shokka hull 15pts (NEW) situational at best... kinda meh
vehicles
if hit in melee, units suffers d3 mw on a 4+
souped up speshul 10pts (NEW, its worse than the basic gun xD )
i dont even...
smokey gubbinz 1pts per model (NEW, NERF old one was flat -1 to hit for walkers)
mobs with spannerz
if stationary +1 save
squig hide tyres 15pts (NERF) previously could be taken by bikes and was 2" movement before (without extra adv)
vehicle
add 1" move, +1" advance
bionic oiler 10pts (NEW) normal oiler costs 5... could be nice for some niche list
use oiler twice
da boomer 15pts (+ 15 for killkannon, so 30pts total) (kinda same as before, but actually a NERF)
+12" range, 2d6 instead of d6 shots
giroscopic whirlgig 10pts (NERF) lost ability to automatically jump. BTW dragstas suffered 1mw before, now d3
ignore mw for jumping
EDIT:
edited some comparison in for the old stuff we had
I think the "Forktress" upgrade is still decent and "More dakka" seems like fun on a dakkajet (especially during a speedwaagh). I'm willing to try out the "Shokka hull" a couple of times as it seems like fun, but I doubt it'll do all that great.
Edit: And BTW, in case anyone has missed it, we do know the stats of the supa-shoota. It's 36" Dakka 6/4 S6 AP-1 D1. So the dakkajet is probably the best candidate for "more dakka"
the forktress is a must buy. not becasue its so good but because we need the 5++ on our battlewagon
i'm kinda keen on trying the kmb dread... 135points for 4d3 + 4 shots on average thats
12 shots, so 4 hits with s8 ap3 d6dmg (and two mortals to himself^^) kinda pricey but fun
Edit: And BTW, in case anyone has missed it, we do know the stats of the supa-shoota. It's 36" Dakka 6/4 S6 AP-1 D1. So the dakkajet is probably the best candidate for "more dakka"
oh ok, thanks! do we know if it costs extra points on the dakka jet?
and idk... you only get 4/6 extra shots 50% of the time... but yeah ..will try that out myself too
PiñaColada wrote: I think the "Forktress" upgrade is still decent and "More dakka" seems like fun on a dakkajet (especially during a speedwaagh). I'm willing to try out the "Shokka hull" a couple of times as it seems like fun, but I doubt it'll do all that great.
It is worth noting, I suppose, that the half of the forktress upgrade that got taken away is now just on battlewagons by default (3+sv). I do kind of like it on a battlewagon still if you're not doing a kff in your army, 155pts for a forktress'd up battlewagon doesnt seem too unreasonable.
I've calculated the outcome of bolter shooting vs new and old boyz. It seems that if you loose enough boyz to fail a ld check, new boyz are even more fragile than old boyz for squads of 30. But if you loose most of the squad or all of them, new boyz are a bit tougher. So, seems that big squads are out of the picture for now. Unless there is some way to make them fearless or you plan to spend 2cp each turn.
the stompa rerolls morale tests
Mob rule allows them to ignore being under half unit size
Warboss- boss is watching rule ignore attrition modifiers
You are going to fail morale alot but even with just MSU units you are going to have mob rule and warboss effects lower the result to be muted to only a few models lost… 30 model units is just to big a detriment if someone takes out over half your unit. You are going to have a large morale loss.
At 2cp I would never use breaking eads and just use the general auto pass morale strat. Breaking eads should be 1cp and 1 mortal wound to at least be slightly better then the general strat.
gungo wrote: the stompa rerolls morale tests
Mob rule allows them to ignore being under half unit size
Warboss- boss is watching rule ignore attrition modifiers
You are going to fail morale alot but even with just MSU units you are going to have mob rule and warboss effects lower the result to be muted to only a few models lost…
At 2cp I would never use breaking eads and just use the general auto pass morale strat. Breaking eads should be 1cp and 1 mortal wound to at least be slightly better then the general strat.
Yeah, technically if your opponent is smart enough to split their fire, having 3x10 squads vs 1x30 squad could actually work out to more morale casualties.
PiñaColada wrote: I think the "Forktress" upgrade is still decent and "More dakka" seems like fun on a dakkajet (especially during a speedwaagh). I'm willing to try out the "Shokka hull" a couple of times as it seems like fun, but I doubt it'll do all that great.
Edit: And BTW, in case anyone has missed it, we do know the stats of the supa-shoota. It's 36" Dakka 6/4 S6 AP-1 D1. So the dakkajet is probably the best candidate for "more dakka"
Shockah hull sounds hilarious with blood axes on as scrap jets
Charge .3xd3 mortals with spiked ram
In combat. More mortals with shoka hull d3 mortals
Blood axes fall back and charge again and repeat
Because they are in squads just allocate damage to model that doesn't have the shoka hull to keep it safe xD
gungo wrote: the stompa rerolls morale tests
Mob rule allows them to ignore being under half unit size
Warboss- boss is watching rule ignore attrition modifiers
You are going to fail morale alot but even with just MSU units you are going to have mob rule and warboss effects lower the result to be muted to only a few models lost…
At 2cp I would never use breaking eads and just use the general auto pass morale strat. Breaking eads should be 1cp and 1 mortal wound to at least be slightly better then the general strat.
Yeah, technically if your opponent is smart enough to split their fire, having 3x10 squads vs 1x30 squad could actually work out to more morale casualties.
Still need to kill 6 per squad not really easily to split that and make sure no other unit is nearby although 6in isn’t huge.
Kebabcito wrote: The problem is, SAG was broken due to DS rerrolls. Now you can rerroll only once hit OR wounds, and no damage. No double shoot neithrr
Yeah, it was the damage reroll in particular that made it quite strong to skew into the direction you wanted. Without that reliability and SAG still being quite expensive at 110 points base (125 if you take the upgrade), I don't know if their utility is better than other HQ slots now that they're at a premium in our lists.
reroll one hit OR wound? though it was still both but was missing the damage reroll? If its an OR than deathskullz are essentially the new snakebites, a totally worthless trait.
Vineheart01 wrote: reroll one hit OR wound? though it was still both but was missing the damage reroll? If its an OR than deathskullz are essentially the new snakebites, a totally worthless trait.
It is just OR, not both. I would say the DS still have some decent value as far as obsec and the 5+ mortal wound shrug goes (it comes up more than you think), but certainly they've fallen below Snakebitez and Goffs for general utility in lists. The ones I feel worse for in terms of Klan Traits are Blood Axes and Evil Sunz. Blood Axes staying the same boggles my mind (at least reduce the cover thing to outside of 12" at least and make it a -1 to hit rather than +1 to save) and Evil Sunz are pretty much DOA if Dakka doesn't have an advance and shoot like an assault weapon clause, since our assault weaponry just got cut down in numbers significantly.
Yeah, being a through and through Evil Sunz boy our new kultur just plain hurts. I'd be okay with losing out on:
- The +1 to charge if 'ere we go was still the old rules
- Or vice versa.. Getting the new, nerfed 'ere we go but keeping the +1 to charge
- Or losing out on both of those if more weapons were assault/dakka counted as assault on bikes and vehicles.
All of it combined seems really harsh and Evil Sunz weren't even oppressively good before the new codex anyways. Makes me wonder if someone at GWHQ got curbstomped once by the army due to poor screening or whatever and decided to smite down on whatever capabilities it had. Playing evil sunz speedfreeks and not being able to advance just feels wrong. At least the actual speedfreeks units are better now, so it won't be too bad I guess
Edit: Deffkoptas are better now but the drive-by krumpin' taktik is not new and I'm unsure if it's better than the old deffkopta unit buffed by "visions in da smoke". Don't get me wrong, I loved doing that but it wasn't a game changer in pretty much any match I used it in. Advancing and charging with a unit is cool I guess but it's a suicide missile that's going to fly up the board and die, hopefully having made it's points back. If it could shoot along the way I'd be more psyched about it. A fight last relic is great though, and I wouldn't be surprised if lots of people took an ES patrol just to get that into their list.
I think it's more likely them thinking Evil Suns were fine, so didn't need changing. Paying absolutely no heed to the fact that they were removing a lot of what Evil Suns did well.
Vineheart01 wrote: Agreed, Evil Sunz got done dirty. They took the speed out of the army and didnt at least give it back to the speedy gitz lol.
Yeah, I was surprised there wasn't any sort of direct support to speed freaks (besides adding base movement) or other fast units considering Snakebitez explicitly help out squig keyword units. Even just flat out stating that Evil Sunz units can advance and shoot dakka weapons as if they were assault weapons would have been nice. I get the issue with the previous version was that it promoted mass boyz which kind of goes against what Evil Sunz are about, but they could have made the +1 to charge for Biker and Vehicle units.
I think rukkatrukks, KMB grot mega tanks, rokkit kans, basically all BS4 shooting, is gonna benefit massively for bad moons. That +6 range is going to give these units the litte extra juice they need.
Da boss carries whatever he wants I guess, who's gonna zoggin' stop him?
That imgur album has updated with 2 new psychic powers BTW "spirit of Gork" & "squiggly curse". I think they both are beasthide powers and both seem pretty darn tasty IMO.
BDBurrow wrote: Can someone explain to me why Ghaz has stikkbombs?
It's something modelled on but they never bothered to give him a rule where it lets him use that in conjunction with Mork's Roar, typical GW rules oversight
Sure, but unless they were some souped-up stikkbombs would you even use them if you could? It's like the ridin' shotgun rule for the buggies. It's cute but unless I desperately need to remove a last wound somewhere I don't bother firing the grot blasta..
do we actually have confirmation that Dakka /= assault? i'll be honest, I'd already abandoned Evil Sunz trait in exchange for Freebootas and I dont see that being likely to change, particularly given that their absolute garbo relic and stratagem have been replaced by some truly tasty and devious Obsec tricksiness, but if dakka is capable of functioning as Assault Evil Sunz could still have something of a place.
Warbikers and Stormboyz are CORE, after all, and a regular footsloggin' waaagh enables all CORE units (regardless of clan affiilitation) to advance and charge as well as gain +1A. Warbikers in evil sunz would be able to move 23" and then charge with +1A turn 1, while evil sunz trukk boyz have similar range. if you want to go for a flat-out turn 1 pressure list, Evil Sunz appears to have wings in that regard and can deliver a strategic fight last as well with the relic.
You might have enough movement to pull off a similar thing with Goffs, and that's probably the worst bit about new evil sunz, but if they could not give up their shooting while doing it I can see there being a reason to go for them.
tulun wrote: Bad moon range bonus is heavy and dakka only.
Doesn't benefit a lot of what you said. Rukka and KMB are assault. Rockets tho.
Damn, I thought rokkits and kmb but you are right. Also, why on earth is sguig buggy assault ? Oh well, that just leaves rokkit kans and Kustom Blasta mech gunz open for a bad moon buff. Perhaps a bad moon spearhead with a 2*4 rokkit kanz and 3*1 Kustom Blasta mech gun could be a relatively versatile mid-long range threat. Also, bad moon warbikers with the showin off strat used during a speedwaaaagh could be fun !
But yeah Heavy and Dakka only makes the klan trait kind of unimpressive, all things considered
considering my orks are BadMoonz to begin with im probably sticking with them. Heavily debating if i want to paint the beastsnagga stuff badmoonz or something else.
As a result i dont see myself using the squigbuggy for that reason. Even though i have one already painted yellow lol. It still feels a bit lack luster but at least now its decent enough to field and not feel like dead weight, it will do damage.
Sidebar: I really wish people making these leaks were just a tiny bit more concerned with the core baseline mechanics of how the orks worked like "wtf is this Specialist Mobs thing? How is it limited? Can I just declare ANYBODY a specialist mobster? it seems to imply that it replaces <Clan> since it specifically calls out that Speciallist Mobs can be taken in <clan> detachments without losing benefits like a named character, but in the only rules text I've seen it just says the unit "gains the keyword".
how, if at all, do Grots interact with any of these rules? 'Orrible Gitz, the specialist mob, notes that they gain obsec, do grots not normally gain obsec?
how does Dakka work? was GW really actually stupid enough to make 'advance and fire assault weapons' a core part of both the Speedwaaagh and Evil Sunz trait (thanks for that redundancy, btw) when theyve only left like 4 or 5 non-autohitting assault weapons in the whole ass codex?
Just slightly bizarre that we have almost full statlines for every single thing leaked and nobody was like 'lets grab a peek of that ol' core army-wide rules page in full!"
koooaei wrote: So, is it confirmed that grot units get clan benefits? I guess, death skull msu kans and mek gunz can be nice.
Ah damn again. I think there is one big issue with grot getting clan benefits: snakebite grots. It would be so strange to have autocanons wound grots on 4s... But who know, GW is capable of anything these days (the ad mech auto wound on 4s to hit strat, chickens, several druk things too, morven vahl...).
Best forget about bad moons for now, until we get more info.
My understanding of Gretchin is that people are saying they might get clan rules - but you have the option with Orrible Gits to make them obsec instead, forgoing its clan rules. This does not impact the rest of the detachment, just the Gretchin unit itself.
Essentially, they are their 8th edition version. All you would have to do is tap them and make them specialists.
So if you wanted them to be 50 point obsec unit you could still do that and plant them backfield to use a troop slot.
It's hard to clarify without the book, this is just patching together what we've seen.
the_scotsman wrote: do we actually have confirmation that Dakka /= assault? i'll be honest, I'd already abandoned Evil Sunz trait in exchange for Freebootas and I dont see that being likely to change, particularly given that their absolute garbo relic and stratagem have been replaced by some truly tasty and devious Obsec tricksiness, but if dakka is capable of functioning as Assault Evil Sunz could still have something of a place.
Warbikers and Stormboyz are CORE, after all, and a regular footsloggin' waaagh enables all CORE units (regardless of clan affiilitation) to advance and charge as well as gain +1A. Warbikers in evil sunz would be able to move 23" and then charge with +1A turn 1, while evil sunz trukk boyz have similar range. if you want to go for a flat-out turn 1 pressure list, Evil Sunz appears to have wings in that regard and can deliver a strategic fight last as well with the relic.
You might have enough movement to pull off a similar thing with Goffs, and that's probably the worst bit about new evil sunz, but if they could not give up their shooting while doing it I can see there being a reason to go for them.
That is not a bad idea, as the way specialist mob is phrased, it's the Boyz that become specialists and lose their clan rules, not the transport itself. And in fact it is explicit that the rest of the detachment is not affected.
So, yes, you could move the Trukk with +1" movement and then disembark the Trukk Boyz specialist mob. Probably more useful than having a "Goff Trukk" at least.
But you wouldn't be able to advance and shoot your Big Shoota at +1 BS unless that affects dakka weapons as well. Honestly, I think that's something that would need to be FAQ'd.
Well, currently it seems it's not any of known weapon types (assault/rapid fire etc.), but instead is a new type, which follows the same basic rules as any other weapon type during shooting phase (so it cannot be fired if the model advanced).
I'm torn on which klans I want to mix in a double detachment. Right now I'm leaning Goffs or Snakebits for the heavy lifting fighty stuff, and DS for Stormboyz/Kommandos/MANZ for obsec shenanigans.
People really aren't thinking through the specialist mobs. They just forgo clan rules for that unit, so if it provides a benefit; take it.
One perfect example is burns boys/pyromaniacs. It just improves your average number of hits from 3.5 average to 4 and sets a floor of 3 hits minimum. With a 12" range, they now average .66 wounds per model against marines. For 11 points.
The downside is those stupid spannas they make you take for every 4 of them.
A kombi skorcha puts out exactly double the number of wounds as a burna for 28 points.
It's interesting if nothing else. Burnas might literally be one of the most efficient shooting units. A Shoota boy costs 9 points and puts out .16 wounds on average against an MEQ at 9" range, by contrast. Burnas in a Trukk with pyromaniacs should be reviewed, as they could fit in any list just as happily. For a whopping 180 points for 10 of them in a Trukk.
Honestly, I'm starting to think why not put kombi skorchas on Meganobs for 5 points? It's an average of one wound on an MEQ at 12" range and far outstrips the output on any other ranged infantry weapon for the points. They're going to be in a Trukk or a Wagon anyway.
They could be Trukk Boyz or Pyromaniacs. Trukk boys get to move 12" disembark 3" then roast somebody at 12" range and charge. Literally why not.
the_scotsman wrote: Sidebar: I really wish people making these leaks were just a tiny bit more concerned with the core baseline mechanics of how the orks worked like "wtf is this Specialist Mobs thing? How is it limited? Can I just declare ANYBODY a specialist mobster? it seems to imply that it replaces <Clan> since it specifically calls out that Speciallist Mobs can be taken in <clan> detachments without losing benefits like a named character, but in the only rules text I've seen it just says the unit "gains the keyword".
how, if at all, do Grots interact with any of these rules? 'Orrible Gitz, the specialist mob, notes that they gain obsec, do grots not normally gain obsec?
how does Dakka work? was GW really actually stupid enough to make 'advance and fire assault weapons' a core part of both the Speedwaaagh and Evil Sunz trait (thanks for that redundancy, btw) when theyve only left like 4 or 5 non-autohitting assault weapons in the whole ass codex?
Just slightly bizarre that we have almost full statlines for every single thing leaked and nobody was like 'lets grab a peek of that ol' core army-wide rules page in full!"
Yeah, it's almost the same pattern as all those shaky mobile pictures from the last year
Vineheart01 wrote: can we mix klans? previously that denied kultures didnt it? including between detachments.
I think he meant like having two separate klan detachments in his army, not within the same detachment.
Yeah I meant two detachments. I think we will need two and spending the CP for another outrider or whatever isn't a huge issue to me. There aren't a lot of strats I think that will be used constantly except extra WLTs, Relics, maybe something in the tellporta.
I think you should be able to mix klan kulturs within a detachment and get all of the benefits though, as a single WAAAGH is made up of a number of klans and tribes all uniting under one boss. It should be our compensation for having access to no allies and also having pretty tame army wide rules.
Kebabcito wrote: The problem is, SAG was broken due to DS rerrolls. Now you can rerroll only once hit OR wounds, and no damage. No double shoot neithrr
Yeah, it was the damage reroll in particular that made it quite strong to skew into the direction you wanted. Without that reliability and SAG still being quite expensive at 110 points base (125 if you take the upgrade), I don't know if their utility is better than other HQ slots now that they're at a premium in our lists.
There is a cool little symbiosis of you want to take the 70pt Mek workshop and put a Sag Mek on top or regular Mek. U can also hand out free kustom jobs…not sure it’s competitive but fun
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Vineheart01 wrote: Agreed, Evil Sunz got done dirty. They took the speed out of the army and didnt at least give it back to the speedy gitz lol.
Evil sun can be better if Dakka wpns are added to kultur in the faq it’s crazy they didn’t realize they removed all but ~2 assault weapons from orks. They are okay even though The +1 to charge rolls was one of the main reason people took them and that’s gone.
Do we know if the class psychic powers from saga are no longer usable? Because NONE of them were ported over.. and visions in the smoke was another draw to evil suns.
There is a cool little symbiosis of you want to take the 80pt Mek workshop and put a Sag Mek on top or regular Mek. U can also hand out free kustom jobs…not sure it’s competitive but fun
That's actually a cool idea because he could also stick around for repairs.
Considering the kustom jobs are per model and you are limited to 1 unique kustom job unless you take the Mek workshop… I’m not sure if the Mek workshop will be almost mandatory for buggy/dread lists.. you might as well make the most use of it…
Imho worst clan is bloodaxe (depending on snikrot rules), followed closely by freebooter… while the freebooter +1 to hit looks nice it’s mostly redundant for alot of your army, the relic is blah, the freebooter strat is blah and the warlord trait is blah… thier best strat is flashgitz shoot twice and it’s not freebooter detachment locked.
today (7/19) at 1PM eastern time discussion of the new ork codex on art of war. tomorrow we get a game of the new codex same channel at 1 so looking forward to both myself. Brad Chaster will be in both so yay. *happy waaagh noises*
gungo wrote: Considering the kustom jobs are per model and you are limited to 1 unique kustom job unless you take the Mek workshop… I’m not sure if the Mek workshop will be almost mandatory for buggy/dread lists.. you might as well make the most use of it…
Imho worst clan is bloodaxe (depending on snikrot rules), followed closely by freebooter… while the freebooter +1 to hit looks nice it’s completely redundant and doesnt stack, the relic is blah, the shoot twice strat is nice and the warlord trait is blah…
Man, I completely cannot disagree more on Freebootas.
A +1 to hit bonus is only redundant possibly in close combat, if you bring a non-deffkilla warboss (deffkilla AFAIK has no +1 to hit aura unlike other warboss types) and is much more rarely redundant for shooting, where the real money is with Freebootas. Just start out your shooting with whatever Specialist Mobz units you've got in your army to get a kill, and then +1 to hit across the board.
And the obsec shuffling stratagem and relic? Meh? Obsec is how you win the game! Warlord trait is definitely garbage though. Luckily, you can always just take Competitive Edg-iiiiiii mean Brutal But Kunnin'!
G00fySmiley wrote: today (7/19) at 1PM eastern time discussion of the new ork codex on art of war. tomorrow we get a game of the new codex same channel at 1 so looking forward to both myself. Brad Chaster will be in both so yay. *happy waaagh noises*
Finish up the leaks :p
confirm the specialist nob takes away kulturs
Confirm if grots benefit now from kulturs
Tell me what snikrot, maddoc, badruk, zagstruk specials are
Are saga of beast psychic powers gone
Confirm you can’t assault w Dakka weapons and they don’t work for evilsuns
Vineheart01 wrote: can we mix klans? previously that denied kultures didnt it? including between detachments.
I think he meant like having two separate klan detachments in his army, not within the same detachment.
yeah thats what i meant. Other armies you sacrifice something to bring multiple army rules like kultures in the new codexes. I was expecting the same thing for orks.
Like as Necrons if i bring 2 detachments, one Novokh one Mephrit, i cannot use Protocols (believe i still keep the dynasty rules in their respective detachments though).
According to Art of War, Specialist Mobz replace Kultur and each different specialist mob is limited to 1 per detachment.
So only one trukk boyz unit per detachment. Unfortunately, it is unclear whether that's "one of each specialist mob per detachment" or 'one specialist mob total per detahcment"
gungo wrote: Considering the kustom jobs are per model and you are limited to 1 unique kustom job unless you take the Mek workshop… I’m not sure if the Mek workshop will be almost mandatory for buggy/dread lists.. you might as well make the most use of it…
Imho worst clan is bloodaxe (depending on snikrot rules), followed closely by freebooter… while the freebooter +1 to hit looks nice it’s completely redundant and doesnt stack, the relic is blah, the shoot twice strat is nice and the warlord trait is blah…
Man, I completely cannot disagree more on Freebootas.
A +1 to hit bonus is only redundant possibly in close combat, if you bring a non-deffkilla warboss (deffkilla AFAIK has no +1 to hit aura unlike other warboss types) and is much more rarely redundant for shooting, where the real money is with Freebootas. Just start out your shooting with whatever Specialist Mobz units you've got in your army to get a kill, and then +1 to hit across the board.
And the obsec shuffling stratagem and relic? Meh? Obsec is how you win the game! Warlord trait is definitely garbage though. Luckily, you can always just take Competitive Edg-iiiiiii mean Brutal But Kunnin'!
A relic on vehicle only that you can’t protect with a 6in deny only secure bubble is going to die before it’s able to do anything.. it’s far down on the list of useful relics and I doubt anyone takes it unless you can play some character shenanigans with the hunter rig. The obj secured strat for non troops is going to be situationally useful if you get a non troop and need to challenge a spot with an infantry unit vs a objected secured unit that you outnumber. It does only cost 1cp so that is nice.. there a several +1 to hit auras that work on shooting, off the top of my head, grot gunners, tankbustas, all snaggas get +1 to hit vehicles and monsters, buzzgrob, zodgrod runts, and the flashgitz own gitfinder. We will see seems redundant to me but I guess it depends on list.. .
which is what i originally thought subkultures worked to begin with, and how even the old ones felt like they should have done. Making it the entire detachment was stupid, so many units you HAD to bring were now kultureless. (And adding it on top of the kulture would be kinda silly)
I'm glad they did that this time around. And i hope that 1 per detachment is 1 of that subkulture, not one subkulture period per detachment, otherwise a LOT of them wont ever get used due to the usual "why would i use X when Y is superior in every way for the same cost?"
Finish up the leaks :p
confirm the specialist nob takes away kulturs
I think that’s the only questions left.
As I've repeatedly said, this is already confirmed. I've seen the text and it's already been leaked.
It only takes away that units kultur and does not affect the rest of the detachment.
If you are talking about the app screenshot Ive seen the same leak and it’s not clear.
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the_scotsman wrote: According to Art of War, Specialist Mobz replace Kultur and each different specialist mob is limited to 1 per detachment.
So only one trukk boyz unit per detachment. Unfortunately, it is unclear whether that's "one of each specialist mob per detachment" or 'one specialist mob total per detahcment"
They are just reading the app leaks. I was hoping for them to talk about the actual codex. You can see exactly what they are reading here. https://m.imgur.com/a/YC4UNqS
the_scotsman wrote: According to Art of War, Specialist Mobz replace Kultur and each different specialist mob is limited to 1 per detachment.
So only one trukk boyz unit per detachment. Unfortunately, it is unclear whether that's "one of each specialist mob per detachment" or 'one specialist mob total per detahcment"
.
I just looked at the text again, where are you seeing limit of 1 per detachment?
I'm not seeing that under the detachment abilities scree grabs I have not am I seeing them under clan rules or the specialist mobs rules themselves.
gungo wrote: Imho worst clan is bloodaxe (depending on snikrot rules), followed closely by freebooter… while the freebooter +1 to hit looks nice it’s mostly redundant for alot of your army, the relic is blah, the freebooter strat is blah and the warlord trait is blah… thier best strat is flashgitz shoot twice and it’s not freebooter detachment locked.
I think Freebooters will be really strong for shooting armies - if you can wipe out a small unit and then double-shoot your Flash Gitz at BS 3+ you can do a lot of damage. Or use the gitz to wipe out a unit and give the +1 to hit to all your vehicles, for example. Kans hitting on 3's and deff dreads, wagons, etc hitting on 4's is a really solid boost. Plus their "take your obsec away" relic is potentially game-winning on its own if you put it on a character you don't mind camping around an objective. Honestly I think Freebooters win over Bad Moons for a shooty list.
Blood axes are potentially really good too, definitely not in raw power or damage output but if you want to play the objective game and pull tricks their redeploy shenanigans can take people by surprise.
gungo wrote: Considering the kustom jobs are per model and you are limited to 1 unique kustom job unless you take the Mek workshop… I’m not sure if the Mek workshop will be almost mandatory for buggy/dread lists.. you might as well make the most use of it…
Imho worst clan is bloodaxe (depending on snikrot rules), followed closely by freebooter… while the freebooter +1 to hit looks nice it’s completely redundant and doesnt stack, the relic is blah, the shoot twice strat is nice and the warlord trait is blah…
Man, I completely cannot disagree more on Freebootas.
A +1 to hit bonus is only redundant possibly in close combat, if you bring a non-deffkilla warboss (deffkilla AFAIK has no +1 to hit aura unlike other warboss types) and is much more rarely redundant for shooting, where the real money is with Freebootas. Just start out your shooting with whatever Specialist Mobz units you've got in your army to get a kill, and then +1 to hit across the board.
And the obsec shuffling stratagem and relic? Meh? Obsec is how you win the game! Warlord trait is definitely garbage though. Luckily, you can always just take Competitive Edg-iiiiiii mean Brutal But Kunnin'!
A relic on vehicle only that you can’t protect with a 6in deny only secure bubble is going to die before it’s able to do anything.. it’s far down on the list of useful relics and I doubt anyone takes it unless you can play some character shenanigans with the hunter rig. The obj secured strat for non troops is going to be situationally useful if you get a non troop and need to challenge a spot with an infantry unit vs a objected secured unit that you outnumber. It does only cost 1cp so that is nice.. there a several +1 to hit auras that work on shooting, off the top of my head, grot gunners, tankbustas, all snaggas get +1 to hit vehicles and monsters, buzzgrob, zodgrod runts, and the Waagh banner according to leaks. We will see seems redundant to me but I guess it depends on list.. if the waaagh banner is +1 to all hits you can replace the freebooters kultur with a single character.
Badskull Banner is not vehicle only, it MAY be taken on a vehicle - like, say, a Deffkilla Wartrike, which moves ridiculously fast and has character protection. It denies obsec from any enemy unit within 6" and then you've got a 1cp strat to make any unit obsec.
This relic and this strat is literally "Any objective on the board that you can physically get to with any unit is yours, period, for a total of one cp". Any unit of Kommandos, any unit of Stormboyz, and then you advance 20" with your character-protected deffkilla wartrike to turn off any unit of your opponent.
the_scotsman wrote: According to Art of War, Specialist Mobz replace Kultur and each different specialist mob is limited to 1 per detachment.
So only one trukk boyz unit per detachment. Unfortunately, it is unclear whether that's "one of each specialist mob per detachment" or 'one specialist mob total per detahcment"
.
I just looked at the text again, where are you seeing limit of 1 per detachment?
I'm not seeing that under the detachment abilities scree grabs I have not am I seeing them under clan rules or the specialist mobs rules themselves.
Finish up the leaks :p
confirm the specialist nob takes away kulturs
I think that’s the only questions left.
As I've repeatedly said, this is already confirmed. I've seen the text and it's already been leaked.
It only takes away that units kultur and does not affect the rest of the detachment.
If you are talking about the app screenshot Ive seen the same leak and it’s not clear.
That isn't everything, I have another screen grab. Will post in a half hour when I get on lunch.
It's just a compilation, there's been stuff trickling through the past day. Namely the ork detachment rules.
Like I said in the post - literally just what some guys on a stream said. If you have a screenshot to the contrary I will delete happily. If specialist mobs are not limited and Gretchins do not get Kultur...what is the reason why I wouldnt just make all gretchins Orrible Gits?
Brad said he’s a playtester (even though he won’t confirm stuff not in the app leaks) so I’m assuming since he explained the subkulter he’s using the correct meaning of it.
Another great thing about freebooters (aside from « all over the table » instead of 24h is we now have no LOs needed rukkatrukks, so wiping out that small squad that is used for whatever by your opponent, hiding behind a wall, cowering in fear, is NOW POSSIBLE.
I am not saying this is the best clan, even with the obsec shenanigans, but I agree with The Scotsman here. The issue is that get the loot is infantry only, so no deffkilla wartrike getting obsec, just denying obsec. Still great stuff though. Especially when you have stormboyz which are so good now.
oh hey - imgur post has been updated again with a few more sneaky units added.
-Confirmed that the waagh banner nob is still an 'all-orks units' +1 to hit in melee aura. that sucks.
-Weirdboy now knows 2 powers by default + smite and if within 6" of 20 non-gretchin ork models, he gets to cast 2 instead of cast 1.
-Runtherd squig hound is now 'ignore all mods to attrition tests for gretchins within 3". so basically, probably works out about the same as the old 'd3 dead grots' thing. Whip is now hilariously useless - "+1" move for grot infantry within 3" lol.
-Kaptin Badrukk looks basically identical, still a reroll 1 to hit aura. Interestingly, we know that the 'flashiest git' aura is still conveyed out of the new fortification thing. Pirate Fortress Synergy? Probably not but still cute.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The on-foot beastboss as well.
Hilariously, the beastboss' best use case appears to be 'so ya like the Dead Shiny Shoota" - he's got a targeter squig that explicitly calls out that it gives a +1 to hit to his shoota or any relic that replaces a shoota.
Da Ded Shiny Shoota and Gobshot Blunderbuss mention "Model with a kustom shoota only" (latter badmoonz only)
....wtf has a kustom shoota? Generic boss is forced to have a kombi rokkit now, new bosses dont have one, big meks dont have one. It used to say "kombi weapon swaps out the shoota profile" but it doesnt have that clause now.
Like I said in the post - literally just what some guys on a stream said. If you have a screenshot to the contrary I will delete happily. If specialist mobs are not limited and Gretchins do not get Kultur...what is the reason why I wouldnt just make all gretchins Orrible Gits?
E.g. relevant section "<Clan> units from Orks Detachments gain access to the following clan rules, provided every model in that Detachment that is drawn from a clan (with the exception of Specialist Ladz) is from the same clan."
Da Ded Shiny Shoota and Gobshot Blunderbuss mention "Model with a kustom shoota only" (latter badmoonz only)
....wtf has a kustom shoota? Generic boss is forced to have a kombi rokkit now, new bosses dont have one, big meks dont have one.
It used to say "kombi weapon swaps out the shoota profile" but it doesnt have that clause now.
I'm not sure, honestly. Im guessing it's going to be FAQed to a regular shoota so that the beast boss can take it.
Side note, I adore that a weapon called the 'gobshot blunderbuss' cannot be taken to replace a weapon called a 'boomstick'. It's like poetry, it rhymes.
Like I said in the post - literally just what some guys on a stream said. If you have a screenshot to the contrary I will delete happily. If specialist mobs are not limited and Gretchins do not get Kultur...what is the reason why I wouldnt just make all gretchins Orrible Gits?
E.g. relevant section "<Clan> units from Orks Detachments gain access to the following clan rules, provided every model in that Detachment that is drawn from a clan (with the exception of Specialist Ladz) is from the same clan."
This is missing the section of how you designate a unit as a Specialist mob, which i suspect is most likely where any restriction would live. This does indeed establish the fact that specialist mobs abilities supplant clan kulturs. I am unconvinced that GW would give us something as nice as 'completely unlimited specialist mobs'.
apparently the Banner Nob has a kustom shoota, but that is the ONLY character-using kustom shoota i see.
So 2 of our relics cannot be used by HQsatm. Cool, and both are actually pretty good. Awesome. Gjgw....wthlol
Da Ded Shiny Shoota and Gobshot Blunderbuss mention "Model with a kustom shoota only" (latter badmoonz only)
....wtf has a kustom shoota? Generic boss is forced to have a kombi rokkit now, new bosses dont have one, big meks dont have one.
It used to say "kombi weapon swaps out the shoota profile" but it doesnt have that clause now.
Waaagh banner has one but he’s pretty redundant and still cost 70pts
Da Ded Shiny Shoota and Gobshot Blunderbuss mention "Model with a kustom shoota only" (latter badmoonz only)
....wtf has a kustom shoota? Generic boss is forced to have a kombi rokkit now, new bosses dont have one, big meks dont have one.
It used to say "kombi weapon swaps out the shoota profile" but it doesnt have that clause now.
Waaagh banner has one but he’s pretty redundant and still cost 70pts
Interestingly he's not redundant if you're using Ghazzy, since Ghazzy is a rr aura rather than a +1.
May not be worth it still, but worth noting anyway.
Dendarien wrote: If we lose WAAAGH! by taking two different klan detachments that majorly sucks. Didn't know Necrons worked that way but doesn't fill me with hope.
It's also super unfluffy given that real WAAAGH!'s are pretty much always multi-klan in nature. Ghazzy's schtick besides being big is having the acumen to effectively use the klanz in tandem with one another.
This is missing the section of how you designate a unit as a Specialist mob, which i suspect is most likely where any restriction would live. This does indeed establish the fact that specialist mobs abilities supplant clan kulturs. I am unconvinced that GW would give us something as nice as 'completely unlimited specialist mobs'.
Selected unit gains the Trukk Boyz keyword and the following ability:
I haven't seen anything thus far, but admittedly it's hard to comb the page when I don't have it in front of me just a compilation of screen grabs. It doesn't say anything on the Specialist Mobs section about a limit, e.g. 0-1 etc. Based on the leaks so far, there's not a limit on the number of these you can have.
What's interesting is that means you can take a Goff detachment but have Flyboyz for your aircraft, since they get no benefit from the Goffs clan ability. Or Big Krumpaz MANz in your Bad Moons. Etc.
gungo wrote: Kinda funny the flashgitz using a gitfinder won’t stack with thier own kultur.
I mean, unless you want to move with them. But yea the amount of +1 to hit is absurd...
Automatically Appended Next Post: oh - the boomdakka snazzwagon is ordinarily Dakka 10/14.
So the souped up speshul bumps it up to 12/16. And S5 AP-2 D2 now. HOLY MOLY thats so good. perma -1 to hit with ramshackle and a bs4+ big shoota, all for 90pts. That's so spicy.
Vineheart01 wrote: apparently the Banner Nob has a kustom shoota, but that is the ONLY character-using kustom shoota i see.
So 2 of our relics cannot be used by HQsatm. Cool, and both are actually pretty good. Awesome. Gjgw....wthlol
alot of those app leaks arn't finished, there are alot of ap 0 choppas etc.
i am reserving judgment when it comes to points cost and weapon loadouts........wouldn't be the first time the app is wrong or different from the book
...maybe the sheer amount of +1 to hit available is an attempt to address the common complaint that orks firepower is halved by just a weeny little -1 to hit rule/strat. if you can get +1 to hit six ways to sunday you can overcome basically any minus to hit gak.
Its still irritating just how much it all stacks up.
Da Ded Shiny Shoota and Gobshot Blunderbuss mention "Model with a kustom shoota only" (latter badmoonz only)
....wtf has a kustom shoota? Generic boss is forced to have a kombi rokkit now, new bosses dont have one, big meks dont have one.
It used to say "kombi weapon swaps out the shoota profile" but it doesnt have that clause now.
IIRC the section of the WB profile not shown has a Kustom Shoota option for 0p. Granted, you're already paying for the Kombi Rokkit, so take that as you will.
Unfortunately I messed up when I tried to save that screengrab, so you'll have to take my word for it. But I recall having seen it and being fairly disgusted.
the_scotsman wrote: ...maybe the sheer amount of +1 to hit available is an attempt to address the common complaint that orks firepower is halved by just a weeny little -1 to hit rule/strat. if you can get +1 to hit six ways to sunday you can overcome basically any minus to hit gak.
Its still irritating just how much it all stacks up.
the_scotsman wrote: ...maybe the sheer amount of +1 to hit available is an attempt to address the common complaint that orks firepower is halved by just a weeny little -1 to hit rule/strat. if you can get +1 to hit six ways to sunday you can overcome basically any minus to hit gak.
Its still irritating just how much it all stacks up.
Maybe worth noting there are a couple of sources of "extra hit on a 6", which is mathematically equivalent to +1 to hit but stacks with it. The multiple redundancy should make getting PKs hitting on 2+ and otherwise overcoming hit penalties pretty doable.
Incidentally, if you combine +1 to hit to get a mob up to WS 2+ with Goff stratagem for exploding 5's and 6's, you will statistically get 17% more hits than you had attacks.
the_scotsman wrote: …..
Just slightly bizarre that we have almost full statlines for every single thing leaked and nobody was like 'lets grab a peek of that ol' core army-wide rules page in full!"
Yeah, it's almost the same pattern as all those shaky mobile pictures from the last year
What truly bizzare is that most of us will not be able to legaly get this rules for next 4-6 weeks, despite the fact, some of us will get them next week.
So almost nobody will be able play them on tournaments earlier than in September, because of GW recommendation (which is the only thing makes sence in this scenario)…
Good think is, September is almost the Orkotber. So I was almost right….
now i'm not saying this is an entirely competitive thing...but I am extremely amused by the concept of putting Kaptin Badrukk in a big 'ead boss bunka with a big unit of flash gits standing in front of it, and a ton of gretchins standing in front of them ready to convey grotshields. Pirate fortress ahoy!
the_scotsman wrote: ...maybe the sheer amount of +1 to hit available is an attempt to address the common complaint that orks firepower is halved by just a weeny little -1 to hit rule/strat. if you can get +1 to hit six ways to sunday you can overcome basically any minus to hit gak.
Its still irritating just how much it all stacks up.
It feels like they wanted to not include reroll auras but just didn't know what else to do.
Badrukk does have a reroll 1 aura so it’s not like it’s a taboo feature..
personally I think beastsnaggas should be reroll 1 to hit in melee vs vehicles and monsters as the snagga boss and warboss has a +1 to hit in melee aura already
And the waaagh banner can be changed to +1 to all attacks or reroll failed morale tests like most banner characters do.
I can't speak to the relative effectiveness, but I can say as a prospective new Ork player who ordered the box, I'm significantly less intimated by the dice management of the new Codex over what I would see in 8E armies and all the re-rolls.
So far I'm thinking a Goff detachment with Trukk boyz or possibly a block of Trukk Nobz, maybe a Trukk Burna party wagon doing flamer drive-bys, some kind of TBD heavy support, and then a detachment based around Squig cavalry starting with the Beast Snagga box. I'm starting from a collection I purchased that included lots of Black Reach bits and some newer kits so I've got plenty of Boyz and Nobz options, like one of every special unit, at least one of every buggy, Trukk, and Battlewagon, and a nice spread of bikers. Seems like mechanized infantry and bikes/squig riders will be the way to go.
the_scotsman wrote: now i'm not saying this is an entirely competitive thing...but I am extremely amused by the concept of putting Kaptin Badrukk in a big 'ead boss bunka with a big unit of flash gits standing in front of it, and a ton of gretchins standing in front of them ready to convey grotshields. Pirate fortress ahoy!
well if you think thats amusing try using this stratagem
it has the vehicle key word lol but might not explode
there is probably a rule that prevents it but i can't be bothered to check l
or just put it on a teleporter for a deep strike full of burner boys
Okay, I'm annoyed. My reason for wanting to use regular boyz over snagga gits took another hit.
Snagga power scissors is free. So there's 5-10 points to close the gap in points between Boyz and snaggas. The difference is really only 10-15 points for a unit of 10.
They really want you to use snaggas.
Also, the boss gets a free power klaw and an AP -2 2d attack for free with BS4 on his Shoota, so he's literally better than vanilla warboss. Oh, and a 5+ invulnerable save, because why not. For 5 points more than the vanilla boss.
Downside is that he looks stupid.
So, do I have a dumb looking army that's better, or a clean, classic, steampunk ork army. Decisions.
TedNugent wrote: Okay, I'm annoyed. My reason for wanting to use regular boyz over snagga gits took another hit.
Snagga power scissors is free. So there's 5-10 points to close the gap in points between Boyz and snaggas. The difference is really only 10-15 points for a unit of 10.
They really want you to use snaggas.
Also, the boss gets a free power klaw and an AP -2 2d attack for free with BS4 on his Shoota, so he's literally better than vanilla warboss. Oh, and a 5+ invulnerable save, because why not. For 5 points more than the vanilla boss.
Downside is that he looks stupid.
So, do I have a dumb looking army that's better, or a clean, classic, steampunk ork army. Decisions.
Why not use count as and kitbash a Target squig on it?
Guys sorry if that was covered already, but can you call more than one waagh (different waaghs) per game ? Or must you choose between all three types, and that one waagh is the only one you will be doing this game ?
addnid wrote: Guys sorry if that was covered already, but can you call more than one waagh (different waaghs) per game ? Or must you choose between all three types, and that one waagh is the only one you will be doing this game ?
You can only call one since it's based on who your warlord is. Ghaz lets you have both abilities but it happens at the same time, so functionally you'll only ever have it occur once a game.
addnid wrote: Guys sorry if that was covered already, but can you call more than one waagh (different waaghs) per game ? Or must you choose between all three types, and that one waagh is the only one you will be doing this game ?
in the preview they said ..."A Waaagh! or Speedwaaagh! can be called once per battle"
and gaz can call ....."A Great Waaagh! can also only be called once per battle, but it combines the effects of both a Waaagh! AND and Speedwaaagh!"
Ok thanks guys ! So as I need the waagh for my stormboyz, I will forgo the speed waagh I think, and use kanz and mek gunz just to pretend I have a very logical battle plan (kanz and mek gunz are not ork so no waagh benefit for them)
I am disappointed they didn't bother changing or buffing the grotzooka at all now that rokkits got those extra shots. Especially since Big Shootas themselves are arguably better in terms of consistency with 5 shots at 18" versus the 2D3 of the grotzooka (though at admittedly somewhat higher strength). I would have liked the Grotzooka to be AP-1 or +1 to wound against infantry or something.
addnid wrote: Ok thanks guys ! So as I need the waagh for my stormboyz, I will forgo the speed waagh I think, and use kanz and mek gunz just to pretend I have a very logical battle plan (kanz and mek gunz are not ork so no waagh benefit for them)
dude waaagh! is literally listed as an ability on their profile - they have the vehicle key word for speed waaaagh xD
Jidmah wrote: So, how often have you guys had the discussion about how the white squig is the most broken character ever?
God, I wish I could send RL bomb squigs to youtubers talking stupid stuff about orks.
I find it comes a lot of the hyperbole from people who are non-Ork players and feel threatened that their perception of flimsy Ork HQ's don't match with the given ruleset. People are so used to seeing the tanky/damage dealing HQ's be guys like Custodes Bike Captains and SM smash captains for so long that anything veering from the norm makes them REEEE online. I don't give most 40k youtubers much recognition when it comes to their takes for Orks, a lot of them aren't Ork vets or just hype up the leaks (either positive/negative) for the clicks.
I've seen a fair bit come up on reddit as well.
Overall, I feel like it's about damn time we got a character that can hold his own in CC besides Ghazzy.
Jidmah wrote: So, how often have you guys had the discussion about how the white squig is the most broken character ever?
God, I wish I could send RL bomb squigs to youtubers talking stupid stuff about orks.
I think he's a little overhyped TBH. Locks you to snakebites, doesn't get a whole lot from the kultur himself, and I'm not terribly excited by the WLT from snakebites.
I like the regular squig boss since you can kustomize him propa like.
Mozrog is specifically excluded, allowing you to take him without preventing the detachment from becoming a clan detachment, similar to Ghazghkull Thraka (also in the same list).
You can take him in any detachment, he just probably won't be able to take the clan rules. Which is fine because Snakebites doesn't do that much for a T7 model.
Jidmah wrote: So, how often have you guys had the discussion about how the white squig is the most broken character ever?
God, I wish I could send RL bomb squigs to youtubers talking stupid stuff about orks.
It's weird seeing people lose their minds over a model that just does the damage it was already doing +1 in mortals.
I think it's a good model, but it's certainly not as bonkers as everyone seems to think it is. It's also actually got to get to combat, so there's that.
TedNugent wrote: Mozrog is specifically excluded, allowing you to take him without preventing the detachment from becoming a clan detachment, similar to Ghazghkull Thraka (also in the same list).
You can take him in any detachment, he just probably won't be able to take the clan rules. Which is fine because Snakebites doesn't do that much for a T7 model.
Fair enough - I forgot all special characters have the Ghaz rule now too which is nice.
I think I'd prefer to still just build my own and give him a klan trait that helps with something.
Jidmah wrote: So, how often have you guys had the discussion about how the white squig is the most broken character ever?
God, I wish I could send RL bomb squigs to youtubers talking stupid stuff about orks.
I think he's a little overhyped TBH. Locks you to snakebites, doesn't get a whole lot from the kultur himself, and I'm not terribly excited by the WLT from snakebites.
I like the regular squig boss since you can kustomize him propa like.
It might be the strongest warlord trait in the codex. Throw in a painboss and you can potentially heal him back to 6 wounds after death.
personally i think the kill rig might be broken, it has the character keyword so it can do stupid stuff like take relics lol like beast mantle
give it a warlord trait
in addition to casting fist of gork, being affected by auras that affect characters etc - its totally broken XD
kingbbobb wrote: personally i think the kill rig might be broken, it has the character keyword so it can do stupid stuff like take relics lol like beast mantle
give it a warlord trait
in addition to casting fist of gork, being affected by auras that affect characters etc - its totally broken XD
its pretty similar to something akin to a lord discordant. SUUUUUUUUUUUUUPER scary on paper, but in practice, you do kind of..have to get it across the board...
i dont see the killrig shenanigans being broken, merely strong as hell.
Its not character protected due to how many wounds it has and the usual trio of melta BS marines have will still wreck its day barring some awesome 4++ luck via badmoonz warlord trait
Is it just me or does this codex feel like GW spent 99% of their time writing Beast Snaggaz and than phoned in the rest of hte codex. Just about all our "new" non-beast snaggaz stratagems are old abilities that we have to pay CP to use now. our best Strats are all gone, our old army rules are so heavily nerfed they are ridiculous. I know we will be fine by buying the new hotness, but i'm a bit disappointed with how crap most of the rules are.
gungo wrote: I mean like the deffkilla wartrike has been a character forever and it’s no where near broken
Deffkilla is a bargain bin warboss on a trike.
The Kill Rig is legitimately a bonebreaka and can be a psyker.
Kinda different.
Easy fix with a FAQ to be fair.
SemperMortis wrote: Is it just me or does this codex feel like GW spent 99% of their time writing Beast Snaggaz and than phoned in the rest of hte codex. Just about all our "new" non-beast snaggaz stratagems are old abilities that we have to pay CP to use now. our best Strats are all gone, our old army rules are so heavily nerfed they are ridiculous. I know we will be fine by buying the new hotness, but i'm a bit disappointed with how crap most of the rules are.
I'm simply annoyed by the beast snaggas. The most annoying thing is definitely faction locked warlord traits, strategems and relics. And even auras are silo'd. As some have said, including the "annoying Youtuber" complaining about Wortzog, it's beginning to look like the obnoxious transport restrictions on Primaris Space Marines all over again.
They definitely feel like they have taken over certain things in the codex. For no apparent reason, either.
SemperMortis wrote: Is it just me or does this codex feel like GW spent 99% of their time writing Beast Snaggaz and than phoned in the rest of hte codex. Just about all our "new" non-beast snaggaz stratagems are old abilities that we have to pay CP to use now. our best Strats are all gone, our old army rules are so heavily nerfed they are ridiculous. I know we will be fine by buying the new hotness, but i'm a bit disappointed with how crap most of the rules are.
To be fair, when the Orktober buggies came out and were either overcosted (kustom boosta-blasta), had lackluster rules (boomdakka snazzwagon), or both (rukkatrukk squigbuggy), everyone complained that the cool shiny new models were unplayable. Given the choice, I'll take good rules for models I am going to buy anyway because they're great miniatures. The beast snagga boyz I could take or leave, but I love the squighogs, and a warboss riding a dinosaur-pig-shark with a robot leg is something I never knew I always wanted.
I actually think pretty much everything in the codex got better except the Boyz horde - time will tell whether the buggies' unit coherency rules make them unplayable except as single-model units, I'll admit I'm concerned on that front, but the buggy models themselves got big improvements along with almost everything else. The new Waaagh! rules are a big buff to the whole army. Goffs, Freebooters, and Snakebites got better, Blood Axes and Bad Moons stayed about the same, Evil Sunz and Deathskulls got slightly worse. It's a testament to how over-the-top DS were that they're arguably still worth taking for mass-obsec alone even with the nerf. Stratagems are mostly meh with some stand-outs, but kustom jobs and specialist mobs give us a lot of options and flexibility that other codexes don't get. Overall, I'm happy with the boosts to most of the existing units.
I haven't seen anything thus far, but admittedly it's hard to comb the page when I don't have it in front of me just a compilation of screen grabs. It doesn't say anything on the Specialist Mobs section about a limit, e.g. 0-1 etc. Based on the leaks so far, there's not a limit on the number of these you can have.
What's interesting is that means you can take a Goff detachment but have Flyboyz for your aircraft, since they get no benefit from the Goffs clan ability. Or Big Krumpaz MANz in your Bad Moons. Etc.
Ya know what I was thinking - all this talk about Trukk boyz. One would think you kinda have to be able to give out multiple iterations of the same specialist mobs. It would be REALLY weird to have a Trukk Boy Warboss, but not be able to have Trukkboy boyz with him. Thats one scenario where you need to at least be able to give two different units the specialist detachment
Sorry if this has been already demonstrated, but how do you guys see that the specialist mob units lose their Clan kultur keywords ?
In specialist ladz it says that such unit don't benefit the Clan kultur unless they have the Clan keywords, which is all good as there is nothing about losing the Clan keywords, no?
XC18 wrote: Sorry if this has been already demonstrated, but how do you guys see that the specialist mob units lose their Clan kultur keywords ?
In specialist ladz it says that such unit don't benefit the Clan kultur unless they have the Clan keywords, which is all good as there is nothing about losing the Clan keywords, no?
I didn't see anyone saying they lose the Clan keyword. I think they still keep it, but don't benefit from kultur
The only rule I can find just mentions they don't benefit the kultur ONLY if they 're not from the same clan.
So in a goff detachment, if I select goff boys as trukkboyz , they should still benefit from the goff kultur, as they are still goff.
addnid wrote: Ok thanks guys ! So as I need the waagh for my stormboyz, I will forgo the speed waagh I think, and use kanz and mek gunz just to pretend I have a very logical battle plan (kanz and mek gunz are not ork so no waagh benefit for them)
dude waaagh! is literally listed as an ability on their profile - they have the vehicle key word for speed waaaagh xD
I think you are wrong, no ork keyword, no benefiting from the waagh. But I could be the one who is wrong. I have been wrong before
Am i understanding the new ammo runt rules correctly? When you buy an ammo runt the UNIT is "equipped with an ammo runt." when you go to use the ammo runt, "the bearer re rolls the hit roll". Does this mean the entire squad gets re roll to hits?
Heafstaag wrote: Has anyone seen how nob bikers faired with the new codex?
Probably not at all, since they are part of FW now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
GreenTidePackers wrote: Am i understanding the new ammo runt rules correctly? When you buy an ammo runt the UNIT is "equipped with an ammo runt." when you go to use the ammo runt, "the bearer re rolls the hit roll". Does this mean the entire squad gets re roll to hits?
Take a guess
Since, in theory, you are rolling each attack separately, you can re-roll exactly one dice.
What we currently get is that foot hordes got a semi-nerf with ld issues and harder to cast tellyportas but slightly more mellee damage and ability to get some more damage boosts easier with goff culture and waagh.
All new squig units got strong rules which are probably gona get toned down a bit later on but might still be strong.
Most vehicles got buffed in one way ore another. Buggies are really strong. As for grot vehicles - they depend on weather grot get kultures or not. If they do, they are all gona be good. If not, still ok-ish.
Mek gunz are revamped significantly. Smash gun is nowhere near as auto-take as it used to be. But it's still ok to take it or kmk in literally any list. Now that they are squadroned, i'd not go above 2. Ld issues are a problem throughout the codex.
12" Skorchas and a price drop + ramshackle are gona make 3-skorcha/1 saw dreads pretty good for a 2d turn squadron drop to clear a flank or backfieeld if there is an opening by that time. Heck, I'm seriously considering 10 skorcha manz for the job as I don't have dreads. Hard to tell what's better tho. Dreads do look interesting now for that task alone.
As for speshulists, they're overall a slight disappointment as you can't make a charge-on-move truck army and seems that you loose kulture but it's an ok option for when you want something like rokkit tankbustas in a goff detachment.
PiñaColada wrote: Hold on, did GW actually nerf the burna bottles? They were terrible in 8th and you've made them worse? That's just crazy
Ah, I haven't notices the datasheet was completed. I don't really mind, I think I've use the bottles once up till now. It also lost its weird random explosion.
However, the mek speshul got improved to 2 damage. That actually gives the snazzwagon a reason to exist, it's decent for shredding marines now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
koooaei wrote: What we currently get is that foot hordes got a semi-nerf with ld issues and harder to cast tellyportas but slightly more mellee damage and ability to get some more damage boosts easier with goff culture and waagh.
The Waaagh! is actually neither a buff nor a nerf as they have lost the advance and charge from the warboss and +1 attack from green tide. Tellyporta also has become a lot less important in 9th to me as both the smaller boards, the new terrain and quite a few anti-deep strike abilities and stratagems make it really hard to put to a good use.
Most vehicles got buffed in one way ore another. Buggies are really strong. As for grot vehicles - they depend on weather grot get kultures or not. If they do, they are all gona be good. If not, still ok-ish.
There are probably going to be some pretty insane things you can pull off with the grot mega-tank if it can use stratagems and kustom jobs freely.
Yeah, it being D2 is a huge improvement and 14shots within 15" is actually really decent dakka. But this has to mean that the souped-up spehsul is incorrect, right? It's the old statline they've shown for some reason. Because losing a point of S, AP & Dmg to make it assault 15 instead of dakka 14/10 -and- paying 10 points for that might actually be the worst deal in all of 40k
Edit: I suppose it does say change the weapon to dakka 16/12 in the text above the (presumably) incorrect picture. If that's all it does then the upgrade is decent enough I guess, if a little unimaginative..
Just for those wondering - I will be creating a thread for the new codex two weeks after the release as usual. This way the new thread doesn't start with people panicking about their current army and misread rules
Is there anyone interested in keeping this thread open for those still playing the old codex until August/September?
XC18 wrote: Well why don't they benefit the kultur ?
The only rule I can find just mentions they don't benefit the kultur ONLY if they 're not from the same clan.
So in a goff detachment, if I select goff boys as trukkboyz , they should still benefit from the goff kultur, as they are still goff.
So were just going to ignore this question? I too want to know where it has been written since I couldnt find anything of the sort either.
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Jidmah wrote: Just for those wondering - I will be creating a thread for the new codex two weeks after the release as usual. This way the new thread doesn't start with people panicking about their current army and misread rules
Is there anyone interested in keeping this thread open for those still playing the old codex until August/September?
Not me, but I would like a link to the new thread in here once you put it up if you can be bothered.
XC18 wrote: Well why don't they benefit the kultur ?
The only rule I can find just mentions they don't benefit the kultur ONLY if they 're not from the same clan.
So in a goff detachment, if I select goff boys as trukkboyz , they should still benefit from the goff kultur, as they are still goff.
So were just going to ignore this question? I too want to know where it has been written since I couldnt find anything of the sort either.
What would be the point of allowing specialist mobz to be from a different clan? In that case they just wouldn't have listed them.
Jidmah wrote: Not me, but I would like a link to the new thread in here once you put it up if you can be bothered.
Sorry if this has been covered already but regarding the speed waagh ability " when a vehicle or bike fires a dakka weapon make one additional attack with that weapon" does that mean that my bikes now make 12/8 shots each (+1 shot to each of the 2x dakka 5/3) OR do I get to make another attack with each dakka gun which would mean a total of 20/12 shots.
Tldr does extra attack mean extra shot or attack again with that weapon.
CaptainO wrote: Sorry if this has been covered already but regarding the speed waagh ability " when a vehicle or bike fires a dakka weapon make one additional attack with that weapon" does that mean that my bikes now make 12/8 shots each (+1 shot to each of the 2x dakka 5/3) OR do I get to make another attack with each dakka gun which would mean a total of 20/12 shots.
Tldr does extra attack mean extra shot or attack again with that weapon.
A dakka 5/3 weapon makes 5 or 3 attacks, if you add an extra attack it's 6 or 4 attacks. So each bike gets two additional shots.
XC18 wrote: Well why don't they benefit the kultur ?
The only rule I can find just mentions they don't benefit the kultur ONLY if they 're not from the same clan.
So in a goff detachment, if I select goff boys as trukkboyz , they should still benefit from the goff kultur, as they are still goff.
So were just going to ignore this question? I too want to know where it has been written since I couldnt find anything of the sort either.
What would be the point of allowing specialist mobz to be from a different clan? In that case they just wouldn't have listed them.
The way I see I, that rule is targeting the character units listed in there (snikrot, badrukk, etc..) , to make sure they don't benefit from kultur other than their own.
XC18 wrote: Well why don't they benefit the kultur ?
The only rule I can find just mentions they don't benefit the kultur ONLY if they 're not from the same clan.
So in a goff detachment, if I select goff boys as trukkboyz , they should still benefit from the goff kultur, as they are still goff.
So were just going to ignore this question? I too want to know where it has been written since I couldnt find anything of the sort either.
What would be the point of allowing specialist mobz to be from a different clan? In that case they just wouldn't have listed them.
The way I see I, that rule is targeting the character units listed in there (snikrot, badrukk, etc..) , to make sure they don't benefit from kultur other than their own.
SemperMortis wrote: Is it just me or does this codex feel like GW spent 99% of their time writing Beast Snaggaz and than phoned in the rest of hte codex. Just about all our "new" non-beast snaggaz stratagems are old abilities that we have to pay CP to use now. our best Strats are all gone, our old army rules are so heavily nerfed they are ridiculous. I know we will be fine by buying the new hotness, but i'm a bit disappointed with how crap most of the rules are.
Gotta shift those kits somehow. No one has Beast Snaggas after-all.
Healthy army balance? What's that?
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koooaei wrote: What we currently get is that foot hordes got a semi-nerf with ld issues and harder to cast tellyportas but slightly more mellee damage and ability to get some more damage boosts easier with goff culture and waagh.
All new squig units got strong rules which are probably gona get toned down a bit later on but might still be strong.
Most vehicles got buffed in one way ore another. Buggies are really strong. As for grot vehicles - they depend on weather grot get kultures or not. If they do, they are all gona be good. If not, still ok-ish.
Mek gunz are revamped significantly. Smash gun is nowhere near as auto-take as it used to be. But it's still ok to take it or kmk in literally any list. Now that they are squadroned, i'd not go above 2. Ld issues are a problem throughout the codex.
12" Skorchas and a price drop + ramshackle are gona make 3-skorcha/1 saw dreads pretty good for a 2d turn squadron drop to clear a flank or backfieeld if there is an opening by that time. Heck, I'm seriously considering 10 skorcha manz for the job as I don't have dreads. Hard to tell what's better tho. Dreads do look interesting now for that task alone.
As for speshulists, they're overall a slight disappointment as you can't make a charge-on-move truck army and seems that you loose kulture but it's an ok option for when you want something like rokkit tankbustas in a goff detachment.
I like that the squigbuggy appears to be a decent harassment tool now instead of just useless.
I don't think any other Ork unit has Ignore LoS attacks, and it should be fast enough to scoot behind a terrain feature, hit an enemy and then scoot off.
Depends heavily on how the terrain is set up, of course, but if you are playing 40k there you shouldn't be playing on an open field anyway.
To be more precise, there are three possible explanations:
1) Specialist mobs replace their clan with their subculture. They are listed so they don't break the detachment. 2) Specialist mobs do not replace their clan and can benefit from their culture and their sub-culture. They are listed in case you put them in another clan for the sole reason of losing their culture? 3) Specialist mobz do not replace their clan but can never benefit from their culture. They are listed if you want to break unit synergy with other <clan> units?
So for both 2) and 3) it wouldn't really make sense to list them unless you are actively trying to hurt your army. According to Occam's razor 1) remains as the interpretation that is most likely to be valid.
XC18 wrote: Well why don't they benefit the kultur ?
The only rule I can find just mentions they don't benefit the kultur ONLY if they 're not from the same clan. So in a goff detachment, if I select goff boys as trukkboyz , they should still benefit from the goff kultur, as they are still goff.
So were just going to ignore this question? I too want to know where it has been written since I couldnt find anything of the sort either.
What would be the point of allowing specialist mobz to be from a different clan? In that case they just wouldn't have listed them.
Wait... I might have misunderstood the original question... the thing I was talking about is wether the specialist kultur overrides the main clan (i.e. snakebites boyz becoming snakebite-trukkboiz instead ofjust trukkbois). Override makes sense from a balance point of view but im not sure if im missing some basic rule that prevents a unit from having multiple clans or im just blind and cant see the clause in the spoilers
SemperMortis wrote: Is it just me or does this codex feel like GW spent 99% of their time writing Beast Snaggaz and than phoned in the rest of hte codex. Just about all our "new" non-beast snaggaz stratagems are old abilities that we have to pay CP to use now. our best Strats are all gone, our old army rules are so heavily nerfed they are ridiculous. I know we will be fine by buying the new hotness, but i'm a bit disappointed with how crap most of the rules are.
Gotta shift those kits somehow. No one has Beast Snaggas after-all.
Healthy army balance? What's that?
Beast snaggas in a vacuum are very close to what khorne daemons are. They will not be able to succeed without shooting backup from the non-snagga parts of the army.
I like that the squigbuggy appears to be a decent harassment tool now instead of just useless.
I don't think any other Ork unit has Ignore LoS attacks, and it should be fast enough to scoot behind a terrain feature, hit an enemy and then scoot off.
Depends heavily on how the terrain is set up, of course, but if you are playing 40k there you shouldn't be playing on an open field anyway.
Agree, but if they can't split, it's next to impossible to hide two such large bases anywhere.
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pepi55 wrote: Wait... I might have misunderstood the original question... the thing I was talking about is wether the specialist kultur overrides the main clan (i.e. snakebites boyz becoming snakebite-trukkboiz instead ofjust trukkbois).
Override makes sense from a balance point of view but im not sure if im missing some basic rule that prevents a unit from having multiple clans or im just blind and cant see the clause in the spoilers
CaptainO wrote: Sorry if this has been covered already but regarding the speed waagh ability " when a vehicle or bike fires a dakka weapon make one additional attack with that weapon" does that mean that my bikes now make 12/8 shots each (+1 shot to each of the 2x dakka 5/3) OR do I get to make another attack with each dakka gun which would mean a total of 20/12 shots.
Tldr does extra attack mean extra shot or attack again with that weapon.
A dakka 5/3 weapon makes 5 or 3 attacks, if you add an extra attack it's 6 or 4 attacks. So each bike gets two additional shots.
Exactly, each bike gets two additional attacks since it fires with two separate weapons. Bikes have 2 dakkaguns, not a twin dakkagun. Two dakka weapons = two extra shots, one per weapon. So 12/8 shots in the waaagh turn.
Wait... I might have misunderstood the original question... the thing I was talking about is wether the specialist kultur overrides the main clan (i.e. snakebites boyz becoming snakebite-trukkboiz instead ofjust trukkbois).
Override makes sense from a balance point of view but im not sure if im missing some basic rule that prevents a unit from having multiple clans or im just blind and cant see the clause in the spoilers
Specialists keep the klan keyword but don't get the klan bonus. They get the specialist bonus instead. For example Snakebite Trukkboyz don't get the bonus for being Snakebites but they get the Trukkboyz one instead.
They still count as <Klan> (Snakebites in the previous example) in terms of auras, psychic powers, strategems, etc... though.
CaptainO wrote: Sorry if this has been covered already but regarding the speed waagh ability " when a vehicle or bike fires a dakka weapon make one additional attack with that weapon" does that mean that my bikes now make 12/8 shots each (+1 shot to each of the 2x dakka 5/3) OR do I get to make another attack with each dakka gun which would mean a total of 20/12 shots.
Tldr does extra attack mean extra shot or attack again with that weapon.
A dakka 5/3 weapon makes 5 or 3 attacks, if you add an extra attack it's 6 or 4 attacks. So each bike gets two additional shots.
Exactly, each bike gets two additional attacks since it fires with two separate weapons. Bikes have 2 dakkaguns, not a twin dakkagun. Two dakka weapons = two extra shots, one per weapon. So 12/8 shots in the waaagh turn.
Sooo... *types furiously into a calculator* ... that's 96 AP-1 shots coming out of a biker squad in turn 1 for 5 dead marines and if you are within 9" in turn 2 another 8 dead. Not too shabby. The dakka jet is also looking good.
A maxed out bike squad buffed by the speedwaaagh is also a good candidate for the new more dakka strat, if you're unable/unwilling to get them within 9". You gain 36shots by doing that and due to the fact that the strat is 2cp it'll mostly be used in those types of scenarios I'd wager.
Sidenote, I haven't built a dakkajet since that kit was released and mine is slightly converted anyways so I don't remember.. Do dakkajets officially come with an option to put 6 supa-shootas on them? Because most of the time you seem them modeled with just 4 and I really hope the new buffed weapon profile isn't held back by just having 4 guns on the plane.. I'm being paranoid right?
Jidmah wrote: To be more precise, there are three possible explanations:
1) Specialist mobs replace their clan with their
subculture. They are listed so they don't break the detachment.
2) Specialist mobs do not replace their clan and can benefit from their culture and their sub-culture. They are listed in case you put them in another clan for the sole reason of losing their culture?
3) Specialist mobz do not replace their clan but can never benefit from their culture. They are listed if you want to break unit synergy with other <clan> units?
So for both 2) and 3) it wouldn't really make sense to list them unless you are actively trying to hurt your army. According to Occam's razor 1) remains as the interpretation that is most likely to be valid.
Hmm.. first: take a look at the example in the rule, it litteraly writes that Ghazkull still benefits Goff kultur if he is in the goff detachment. So being a specialist ladz does not prevents it from benefiting from its kultur.
2/As for why someone would take spec mob units with a different clan, it is pretty obvious for me.
For example i have an evil sunz detachtment, and I want to add Boss Snikrot + a unit of kommandos (specialist Sneaky Gitz) of blood axe clans, so they can benefit Snikrot aura. Now I can, add the rest of my army still get the evil sunz kultur.
PiñaColada wrote: Hold on, did GW actually nerf the burna bottles? They were terrible in 8th and you've made them worse? That's just crazy
Yeah probably because having a lot of the power buget of the unit in 6" range grenades was dumb. Now theyve slapped dakka 10/14 and danage 2 on the speshul for you...
I have so many planes that I don't really need to magnetise them. I hope I'm just being paranoid in regards to GW being more strict with their "no model-no rules" type of approach to both units and wargear. I just don't want to be heartbroken by the dakkajet finally having good stats but for some reason brought down to max 4 guns, thus making it bad again.. But if it's always been an option then we're probably good.
PiñaColada wrote: Hold on, did GW actually nerf the burna bottles? They were terrible in 8th and you've made them worse? That's just crazy
Yeah probably because having a lot of the power buget of the unit in 6" range grenades was dumb. Now theyve slapped dakka 10/14 and danage 2 on the speshul for you...
I mean sure, net win, but at this point just call it flammable fungus beer and remove the statline altogether :
Jidmah wrote: To be more precise, there are three possible explanations:
1) Specialist mobs replace their clan with their
subculture. They are listed so they don't break the detachment.
2) Specialist mobs do not replace their clan and can benefit from their culture and their sub-culture. They are listed in case you put them in another clan for the sole reason of losing their culture?
3) Specialist mobz do not replace their clan but can never benefit from their culture. They are listed if you want to break unit synergy with other <clan> units?
So for both 2) and 3) it wouldn't really make sense to list them unless you are actively trying to hurt your army. According to Occam's razor 1) remains as the interpretation that is most likely to be valid.
Hmm.. first: take a look at the example in the rule, it litteraly writes that Ghazkull still benefits Goff kultur if he is in the goff detachment. So being a specialist ladz does not prevents it from benefiting from its kultur.
Note that I specifically wrote clan, not culture. In SotB, subcultures would replace the <clan> keyword. Thrakka also isn't a specialist mob unit (last entry on the list). A unit of a different clan would prevent you from gaining a culture for your detachment.
2/As for why someone would take spec mob units with a different clan, it is pretty obvious for me.
For example i have an evil sunz detachtment, and I want to add Boss Snikrot + a unit of kommandos (specialist Sneaky Gitz) of blood axe clans, so they can benefit Snikrot aura. Now I can, add the rest of my army still get the evil sunz kultur.
No you can't, because Boss Snikrot would break your culture. Same is true for all other similar bosses except Thrakka and Makari who can be their own detachment anyways.
Hmm.. first: take a look at the example in the rule, it litteraly writes that Ghazkull still benefits Goff kultur if he is in the goff detachment. So being a specialist ladz does not prevents it from benefiting from its kultur.
2/As for why someone would take spec mob units with a different clan, it is pretty obvious for me.
For example i have an evil sunz detachtment, and I want to add Boss Snikrot + a unit of kommandos (specialist Sneaky Gitz) of blood axe clans, so they can benefit Snikrot aura. Now I can, add the rest of my army still get the evil sunz kultur.
Ah well,. snikrot is a bad example as it is not in the list of specialists ladz ;(
In any case until I read the rule that says that specialist mob units don't benefit kultur, I won't believe it
Jidmah wrote: Just for those wondering - I will be creating a thread for the new codex two weeks after the release as usual. This way the new thread doesn't start with people panicking about their current army and misread rules
Is there anyone interested in keeping this thread open for those still playing the old codex until August/September?
After what release? Snagga box, so lets say new thread in first week of August of regular so new thread in September?
There is not so much to discuss about old codex anyway. I gonna play some tournaments with old one in August but what to discuss? Either secondaries or counterstrategies againts other armies - this could be discussed in the new thread as well. One active thread is the right ammount….
I'm beginning to think Orkz are going to be in a weird place until GW unfeths the Mob Rule nerf. Stormboyz got better, but morale will gut them, Boyz got better, but more expensive and Morale will gut them, Mek gunz got worse smaller unit sizes and Morale will gut them, Burnas got better finally but now you have to take a Mek for every 4 burna boyz, not that big of a deal when compared to Lootas who just got worse somehow and now have to take a mek armed with a 24' weapon (36 for big shoota) for every 4 lootas, but don't worry, you still have to pay 17ppm for the mek even though the Burnas pay 11 for the same damn model.
Buggies got slightly better and slightly worse depending on how you look at it. The Squadron rule is a nerf since spill over dmg will be a thing, morale is actually a concern now.
I think the one bright spot for me is going to be Warbikers but even then, they still suffer from morale problems. T5 3 wounds and -1 to hit is amazing, but a lot of armies can easily plink 3-4 off without trying to hard, and now i have a 50% chance to fail morale and lose 1-3 more warbikers.
Basically GW fethed up with morale for orkz hard. Its going to be hte biggest handicap we face this edition.
Am I the only one planning to convert the boss on a squig into riding a cyborg hammerhead shark instead of a great white shark?
it has really good rules not sure its as broken as people are saying but we will see, still somewhat excited about squig riders and not looking forward to having to modify beast snagga troop models to look less... feral I like my army to look scifi not like they are just wildboyz
oh hey, something random I just noticed as we were having the inevitable "but are we suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuureeeeeeee GW didn't intend for me to be able to have 2 chapter tactics on all my units???" discussion: Flash Gitz have <clan> now. I noticed they weren't in the list of exceptions.
Jidmah wrote: Just for those wondering - I will be creating a thread for the new codex two weeks after the release as usual. This way the new thread doesn't start with people panicking about their current army and misread rules
Is there anyone interested in keeping this thread open for those still playing the old codex until August/September?
I would say at least until the end of sepember since a lot of tournaments will be waiting for the official codex release and not allowing the beast snagga codex in tournaments to avoid confusion (other players will not have ha da chance to see the rules unless they got the limited edition box) probably close 2 weeks after the actual codex has been released?
There's now a photo doing the rounds on facebook of the specialist mobs page. 'Each time you upgrade one of these units, that unit gains the SPECIALIST MOB keyword, and you must replace the unit's <KLAN> keyword with the appropriate keyword as described under that specialism'.
nfe wrote: There's now a photo doing the rounds on facebook of the specialist mobs page. 'Each time you upgrade one of these units, that unit gains the SPECIALIST MOB keyword, and you must replace the unit's <KLAN> keyword with the appropriate keyword as described under that specialism'.
Anything on a limit for it? And (I know this is a silly personal request) any news on how gretchins function vis a vis clans?
nfe wrote: There's now a photo doing the rounds on facebook of the specialist mobs page. 'Each time you upgrade one of these units, that unit gains the SPECIALIST MOB keyword, and you must replace the unit's <KLAN> keyword with the appropriate keyword as described under that specialism'.
Anything on a limit for it? And (I know this is a silly personal request) any news on how gretchins function vis a vis clans?
One unit per detachment. It doesn't prohibit repeating the same specialist mob in different detachments, however.
SemperMortis wrote: ...compared to Lootas who just got worse somehow and now have to take a mek armed with a 24' weapon (36 for big shoota) for every 4 lootas...
By the way, deffgun are now dakka 3/2, so it is possible to get them in the transport/wagon and move around and get within 24" for the spanner (weither that's a good idea or not).
Now that I think about it, this actually a big change, not in power level, but the way people will play lootas in this edition...
SemperMortis wrote: ...compared to Lootas who just got worse somehow and now have to take a mek armed with a 24' weapon (36 for big shoota) for every 4 lootas...
By the way, deffgun are now dakka 3/2, so so it possible to get them in the transport/wagon and move around and get within 24" for the spanner (weither that's a good idea or not).
Now that I think about it, this actually a big change, not in power level, but the way people will play lootas in the edition...
Yeah, that is the only real welcome change to lootas is being able to move in a mobile bunker without having to worry about neg-to-hit mods like tankbustas bizarrely do now. The spanner and points cost is what is really holding them back from maximizing the Dakka changes.
Interesting to see it confirmed. So I guess Trukk Nobz might be a better call since you can't spam trukk boyz, or at least realistically you'll only ever have 2 in most instances between 2 detachments.
Heafstaag wrote: Nob bikers are gone?! Oh how the mighty have fallen!
They will be a FW only. I doubt they are deleted.
The real question is if they buff Nob bikerz to have the same -1 to hit and extra wound count as Warbikers do.
honestly it will not surprise me if nob bikers retain the same wounds and gain 1 T because the people doing the fw rules will not have known the other ork changes.
Interesting to see it confirmed. So I guess Trukk Nobz might be a better call since you can't spam trukk boyz, or at least realistically you'll only ever have 2 in most instances between 2 detachments.
You can also ever only take one spec mob. so having pyromaniaks means you cant also take boomboiz and vice versa
Yup. So, Trukkboyz is nonfunctional. Since you only upgrade a Warboss, Nobz, or Boyz unit and not the Trukk itself, only that unit replaces it's <clan> with <Trukkboyz>, leaving the Trukk with the original <clan> and restricted to only transporting <clan> infantry. They can't get in it.
Just saw the actual rules from the book for specialists. They read differently from the app and are much more clearly written. Only one specialist mob per detachment and it clearly replaces your clan.
Bizarre as this clearly means only one obsec grot unit per detachment at the most.
Yup. So, Trukkboyz is nonfunctional. Since you only upgrade a Warboss, Nobz, or Boyz unit and not the Trukk itself, only that unit replaces it's <clan> with <Trukkboyz>, leaving the Trukk with the original <clan> and restricted to only transporting <clan> infantry. They can't get in it.
That is quite an oversight I'm sure that any sensible opponent would allow them to embark on a trukk.
lazy writing at its finest...
if its replacing the kulture, and you can only upgrade 1 unit per detachment, then some of those subkultures dont even work.
Subkultures cannot use transports. And one of them is specifically buffed to use a transport. GJgw...
I really hope the inevitable errata fix addresses all subkulturs not being able to ride transport's and not just Trukkboyz, or yea a good chunk of these subkulturs are just total dreck.
pfft hey guys GW accidentally gave us a way to autokill a plane again.... assuming the rule if a plane cant move minimum range it dies is still around.
Stikka Kannon doesnt exclude aircraft. So long as you dont fire at it at max range it cant fly far enough to satisfy the minimum range.
Zagstruk and Snikrot came out, their datasheets are nice.
Snikrot has 2 damage -2 AP. Both have warboss statlines but missing warboss keyword. Snikrot 95. Typical kommando rules. 4+/5++. Weird that he gets 5++ but we haven't seen it on the vanilla warboss.
Zag has no apparent restrictions on his power klaw, but comes in at 110. Same rules as stormboyz, but he has a 5+ FNP. Not sure if worth it since you could buy 10 stormboyz for the same cost, but he has some anti vehicle potential.
TedNugent wrote: Zagstruk and Snikrot came out, their datasheets are nice.
Snikrot has 2 damage -2 AP. Both have warboss statlines but missing warboss keyword. Snikrot 95. Typical kommando rules. 4+/5++. Weird that he gets 5++ but we haven't seen it on the vanilla warboss.
Zag has no apparent restrictions on his power klaw, but comes in at 110. Same rules as stormboyz, but he has a 5+ FNP. Not sure if worth it since you could buy 10 stormboyz for the same cost, but he has some anti vehicle potential.
boss Zag so long as he can still deep strike will likely be easier to use than stormboyz. i am assuming he is a warboss though so may have to second detachment him. at least in our current codex i find him one of the most useful units. deep strike in out of LOS take stuff, harass, and just always makes back his points and scores objectives.
TedNugent wrote: Zagstruk and Snikrot came out, their datasheets are nice.
Snikrot has 2 damage -2 AP. Both have warboss statlines but missing warboss keyword. Snikrot 95. Typical kommando rules. 4+/5++. Weird that he gets 5++ but we haven't seen it on the vanilla warboss.
Zag has no apparent restrictions on his power klaw, but comes in at 110. Same rules as stormboyz, but he has a 5+ FNP. Not sure if worth it since you could buy 10 stormboyz for the same cost, but he has some anti vehicle potential.
boss Zag so long as he can still deep strike will likely be easier to use than stormboyz. i am assuming he is a warboss though so may have to second detachment him. at least in our current codex i find him one of the most useful units. deep strike in out of LOS take stuff, harass, and just always makes back his points and scores objectives.
BDBurrow wrote: More kustom job info was leaked. It appears as though if you are running 2 or more vehicles in a unit, you can't give any of them a kustom job.
"Vehicle Kustom Jobs can only be given to a unit that contains one model."
Well, good thing there's no reason ever to run more than single model vehicle units haha
I really do think the standard comp ork list is going to be 2 detachments, 1 battalion/patrol and 1 outrider/spearhead.
Not like you've got anything better to do with those 3cp - might as well unlock the much much greater benefits of having lots more single-model vehicle units.
Single-model KMBs, single-model buggies, all very spicy, all very good, and you definitely want those 2 units of trukk boyz, 2 WARBOSS models, etc.
Sidenote i dont really give a feth about the 'they cant embark on transports' thing, that's a super obvious 2-week faq thing.
TedNugent wrote: Zagstruk and Snikrot came out, their datasheets are nice.
Snikrot has 2 damage -2 AP. Both have warboss statlines but missing warboss keyword. Snikrot 95. Typical kommando rules. 4+/5++. Weird that he gets 5++ but we haven't seen it on the vanilla warboss.
Zag has no apparent restrictions on his power klaw, but comes in at 110. Same rules as stormboyz, but he has a 5+ FNP. Not sure if worth it since you could buy 10 stormboyz for the same cost, but he has some anti vehicle potential.
boss Zag so long as he can still deep strike will likely be easier to use than stormboyz. i am assuming he is a warboss though so may have to second detachment him. at least in our current codex i find him one of the most useful units. deep strike in out of LOS take stuff, harass, and just always makes back his points and scores objectives.
BDBurrow wrote: More kustom job info was leaked. It appears as though if you are running 2 or more vehicles in a unit, you can't give any of them a kustom job.
"Vehicle Kustom Jobs can only be given to a unit that contains one model."
That pretty much kills them for Deff Dreads. Having a "Gung-ho" 4xKMB Deff Dread with the addiotional 4 shots tellyporting together with two full melee ones wouldn't have been half bad but it just means that they'll only be used on people filling in a spare slot.
What really sucks is that they could've just written "The Kustom Job only applies to a single model in a Veichle unit" with maybe an addendum about writing it down in the datasheet.
Afrodactyl wrote: Looks like Big Krumpaz for MANz is going to be the subculture of voice for me then
As long as you aren't playing Goffs it's a no-brainer. But I'm veering towards them as a klan even for warbikers horde and I'm debating wether keep my Trukk Nobz punchy or give them the Trukking culture.
Also of note, giving MANZ a sub-kulture will make it impossible to DAJUMP them since it's <KLAN> locked now IIRC. Forcing you to tellyport them.
So specialists lose the entire <Klan> keyword, which means they lose not only the klan bonus but also klan related auras, stratagems, etc...
At the moment I like Big Krumpaz on Meganobz as I'd Tellyport them anyway and even Boom Boyz on a Gun Wagon with Da Boomer. Flat AP-3, improved to Ap-4 in the waaagh turn, is a nice bonus I think. Unfortunately Kannonwagon doesn't have the Wagon keyword, does it? Pyromaniacs for Burna Boyz as I'd definitely try them a few times after years of oblivion .
Orrible gitz for gretchins is also an auto take, although they're still pretty useless.
Single-model KMBs, single-model buggies, all very spicy, all very good, and you definitely want those 2 units of trukk boyz, 2 WARBOSS models, etc.
I hardly see the benefit of playing 2 WARBOSSES, considering the nerfed BrutalButKunning, "nerfed" KILLA KLAW and the loss of Biggest Warboss they simply aren't that good at punching.
WHAAGH! is now global and you can only declare one anyway, most "tactical" traits you can just drop onto support characters with the Big Boss stratagem so if you want the +1 to hit aura you just drop 70 for a WHAAGH! banner and then give him some support trait.
The only possible reason would be to have some special charachter warboss together with a generic one to use the relics other than that I'd rather bring more toys in the same detachment.
These specialist restrictions seem a bit much. One per detachment (I was assuming that meant one type, originally), means a trukk boyz warboss has neither trukk nor boyz.
Though it does seem like you can have a super heavy aux Gorkanaut with Big Krumpaz, as you lose the rules "every unit in the detachment" get, but these only ever work on one (and you still have the <clan> keyword to trade).
Wow. GW at its finest here. The mekshop applies KJs to the whole unit, so this is their way of making us buy the mekshop. It's the only way you can get KJs on units w/ more than one model. AND it doesn't work for deff dreads because they still split on deployment.
Afrodactyl wrote: Looks like Big Krumpaz for MANz is going to be the subculture of voice for me then.
Not if they can't board a transport....technically that seems correct RAW.
They literally lose the clan keyword per the codex.
Ripe for a FAQ.
Its actually worse than that since they lose both the Kulture AND can't ride a transport, Be da jumped and finally, can't benefit from auras. Fething amazing. Its looking like GW needs to re-write like 90% of the codex to make it playable.
The <Klan> Tag also kills any plan of a fluffy Burna Boys squad enjoying their buff since you can't fit them on a trukk or BW with that change.
Unless of course you'd like to footslog them across the field, that sounds like a very good plan.
GW have made specialist detachments and kustom jobs way more trouble than it needs to be. It's like the moment they take their hands off a SM codex their brains turn to goo on how things interact with one another.
warhead01 wrote: I'm having trouble keeping up and haven't seen a sheet of points costs for the new codex, was it leaked?
screencaps leaked, GW leaked it themselves by making it active in the app for a little while. thre was a whole video on it on art of war yesterday and a game with them today at 1pm
Kill rig cannot take supa Cybork (infantry only) or beasthide mantle as the relic rules state they cannot be taken by a vehicle unless stated otherwise.
So specialist mobs cost zero points, give out a minor buff to 1 unit per detachment, and all it costs is:
Can't ride transports (unless 2 detachments and transport is allowed to share specialism, sorry Trukk Boyz)
Can't have blessings cast on you
Can't benefit from character auras/abilities (unless 2 detachments and the character shares specialism)
Lose access to clan relics/traits/strats if you dare to specialise a character
I assume specialist mobs will be faq'd to let them keep their CLAN keyword, and just not benefit from the kultur, I can't think of any issues that would create if they just delete the second part of that sentence.
It's probably good they're restricted to one per detachment, being able to take something that doesn't benefit from your kultur and give it a different one specifically tailored to it is pretty strong - and presumably you can give a morkanaut or gorkanaut big krumpaz so it can actually benefit from a kultur in a SH aux detachment. Which is, you know, fine.
Insularum wrote: So specialist mobs cost zero points, give out a minor buff to 1 unit per detachment, and all it costs is:
Can't ride transports (unless 2 detachments and transport is allowed to share specialism, sorry Trukk Boyz)
Can't have blessings cast on you
Can't benefit from character auras/abilities (unless 2 detachments and the character shares specialism)
Lose access to clan relics/traits/strats if you dare to specialise a character
Seems like a great rule everyone will want to use
Only viable use are the odd units that have no sinergy with the rest of your army (The odd Dakkajet in a GOFF Army, a unit you're tellyporting which has no benefits from your Kulture AND your supporting charachters which should be in position to buff them up by turn 2 or those stinkin gretchins) but in most cases you'll be better off building a good sinergy between your units than chasing a way to make these buffs output their value.
So this codex basically boils down to "use snaggas, nothing else"
Kustom jobs are pointless, overpriced, and what few wasnt cant be applied to a squad so also dumb. Subkultures fundamentality broken at a core level, one literally doesnt work at all and the rest are mega shafted for a minor boost. Grechin are still trash since apparently they still dont benefit from kultures (also rokkit kanz are 55pts for some fething reason, their rokkits cost 15pts while everything else is 10) Only reason to run wagons is to transport non-snaggas, but with the before mentioned issues...why use nonsnaggas? Gork/mork statline is fine but being shunted to LoW means unplayable so theyre gone (stompa might be usable but still feels like garbage thanks to that 4bracket degrade chart)
Like what the hell. GW is known for pushing the new models but this isnt even just making the old stuff worse its making them flatout broken and unusable by comparison. The only non-snagga unit that seems to be well off is bikers, deffkoptas (which are also new so moot point), and deffdreads.
office_waaagh wrote: I assume specialist mobs will be faq'd to let them keep their CLAN keyword, and just not benefit from the kultur, I can't think of any issues that would create if they just delete the second part of that sentence.
It's probably good they're restricted to one per detachment, being able to take something that doesn't benefit from your kultur and give it a different one specifically tailored to it is pretty strong - and presumably you can give a morkanaut or gorkanaut big krumpaz so it can actually benefit from a kultur in a SH aux detachment. Which is, you know, fine.
FAQ would definitely help, personally I don't think the abilities given are strong enough to warrant losing clan benefits though (i.e. big krumpaz is no benefit to Goffs at all, sometimes no benefit to freebootas, and never a benefit if you stand next to a warboss).
Unfortunately, leaked images indicate aux detachments can't use specialisms, so while a nice idea I don't think a lone 'naut can do that.
kustom job for shokattack gun makes it 2D3 shots
I'm sure that any sensible opponent would allow them to embark on a trukk.
