Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Was gonna post something snarky about “then why did you release in resin just a wee while ago”.
But whilst I can’t rule out an article was deleted, seems I’m misremembering the 28mm scale one.
They did rerelease the resin aeronautica ones for the LI launch which I even ordered but haven't received yet so I'll see if I can still cancel them
Also do I see a gun on the top one here or is that supposed to be some kind of sensor? Kinda strange since they still say they are unarmed in the article directly above this image
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not sure if thats a gun or a sensor or a comms device, etc. The insistence that Arvus Lighters in the HH are unarmed was always a weird one, as in the 40k era they can be upgraded with heavy bolters... or at least they could, not sure if they removed the option or not.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also looks like a hint about melee weapon upgrades for full scale heresy being previewed next thursday ("closely guarded weapon vaults").
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Has anyone built a Civitas Administratum Sector? I'm tempted to get one, but I don't have a good gauge for how much it builds. Is it as much as you'd want to fill a 5x4 table? Or would you go for 2 sets?
Maybe one day I'll get around to printing the Cy-Tilez set instead of GW's set, but as cool as they look and how cheap they are versus GW terrain, they are time consuming to print and need the printer super well dialled in (which mine isn't!).
For what it helps non-green ones were built with that. Had couple more in box. Had 12 buildings of variouss sizes from it.
Greens were from original at starter(and maybe some more)
xttz wrote: Something I've spotted while reading the rulebook is the repeated use of product box art. These images have a very specific style; landscape pictures in a similar colour palette showing two or more of a specific unit, with any other unit types obscured or otherwise out of focus. Several already available or confirmed box images are used, including Titans, Kratos, Rhinos, etc.
In addition to these there are several images in this style for units that have not been announced as plastic kits. One shows two warhounds armed only with the new weapon options. Presumbly this means they're getting their own box using this art, and the old warhound kit & weapons will be separate (and probably direct-only). Another shows Arvus lighters.
More interestingly we also have [termites and russ variant]
One down!
Also worth noting that the new expansion preview included box art for the Knight Magaera/Styrix.
Also worth noting that the new expansion preview included box art for the Knight Magaera/Styrix.
I'm sure all the Mechanicus knight versions (and armigers) will get plastic version whenever they do Mechanicus. And since there is a special rule in the core book that kinda hints at them I'm also sure we won't need to wait multiple years for them.
The Neutron Flux rule (which also isn't used by anything currently) refers to the Cybernetica Cortex special rule that isn't in the book. As far as I know there isn't a unit in the SA/SM ranges that a rule with that name would really fit and there also isn't another Mechanicus kngiht that could have it in the future so that seems like a Mechanicus special rule to me. Probably a case of testing all the rules together and then removing the special/weapon rules that are for not yet released models. So the rule itself was removed but they missed the reference for the rule in another rule.
SU-152 wrote: Arvus Lighters: They insist in the article that it’s unarmed, so maybe it is just an ornament that has no in-game effect. Shame!
It seems like a multi-laser or autocannon.
Could be something like the tank pintle weapons that doesn't have rules but this should be way bigger and why even model it if it doesn't get rules?
The pintle weapons are understandable as the tanks already have way bigger weapons so they wouldn't really influence anything and are just for optics but the arvus didn't have any before so you also wouldn't need to model any just for optics now unless they actually get rules.
More likely WarCom just wasn't told anything and only based their article on the current rules which will be changed in the future
Those are neat, always good to hear they're making more plastic kits and I hope Horus Heresy can get a lot of their unique models transitioned to plastic.
I have a question for anyone that might have had or played Aeronautica Imperialis and switched to Legion Imperialis.
The gameplay of Aeronautica had been criticized by a few for being simplistic and less detailed than its previous edition. What I'm wondering is in regards to aircraft, how does Legion compare to Aeronautica?
I realise of course Legion is a combined arms game with tanks, infantry and aircraft. Just wondered how the aircraft play out in game.
If someone liked flyers in Aeronautica would they like them in Legions?
lost_lilliputian wrote: I have a question for anyone that might have had or played Aeronautica Imperialis and switched to Legion Imperialis.
The gameplay of Aeronautica had been criticized by a few for being simplistic and less detailed than its previous edition. What I'm wondering is in regards to aircraft, how does Legion compare to Aeronautica?
I realise of course Legion is a combined arms game with tanks, infantry and aircraft. Just wondered how the aircraft play out in game.
If someone liked flyers in Aeronautica would they like them in Legions?
AI is a game about outmaneuvering the opponent in a dogfight. There're ground target to attack but the main focus is still air vs air
In LI flyer come in from reserve, drop bombs, do a straffing run, then return to reserve until the next round, unless they have the hover rule allow them to stay and fight. The maneuver is simple and the same across all flyer.
lost_lilliputian wrote: I have a question for anyone that might have had or played Aeronautica Imperialis and switched to Legion Imperialis.
The gameplay of Aeronautica had been criticized by a few for being simplistic and less detailed than its previous edition. What I'm wondering is in regards to aircraft, how does Legion compare to Aeronautica?
I realise of course Legion is a combined arms game with tanks, infantry and aircraft. Just wondered how the aircraft play out in game.
If someone liked flyers in Aeronautica would they like them in Legions?
AI is a game about outmaneuvering the opponent in a dogfight. There're ground target to attack but the main focus is still air vs air
In LI flyer come in from reserve, drop bombs, do a straffing run, then return to reserve until the next round, unless they have the hover rule allow them to stay and fight.
Ok thank you. LI sounds definitely about supporting the main army more than anything.
The plastic Arvus reignited some interest in Legions for me. I have mainly Imperial Navy but a few Astartes flyers too.
At the very least I thought some LI ground defence units with anti-aircraft weapons and flyers might combine well with some home grown scenarios of attack raids etc.
I wouldn't fuss about the details on the Arvus. They're decoration, like pintle weapons on tanks and hunter killer missiles on tanks.
The scale is too small to worry about little bits and bobs. Chaff launchers, refueling booms, put them on or leave them, we already have the rules for the Arvus and I don't foresee them changing.
Join us next Thursday as we get exclusive access to some closely guarded weapon vaults.
While the most likely solution is for sure just melee weapon sprue for HH if it is something for LI it could be more Heavy weapons detachments.
We already know more will be coming as the Imperial Fists rules talk about infantry detachments with Plasma Cannons, Lascannons, Autocannons and Heavy Bolters which only appear on Heavy weapons squads in HH.
Again very likely the melee HH weapon sprue but I could also see a LI Heavy weapons infantry box with a few bases each of the above weapons and probably also more of the Plasma and Missile marines.
drbored wrote: I wouldn't fuss about the details on the Arvus. They're decoration, like pintle weapons on tanks and hunter killer missiles on tanks.
The scale is too small to worry about little bits and bobs. Chaff launchers, refueling booms, put them on or leave them, we already have the rules for the Arvus and I don't foresee them changing.
Doesn't LI include pintle weapons in the profile these days? lol
Rhinos have different rules depending on whether they have a pintle storm bolter, pintle mounted multimelta, oe pintle havoc launcher.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Has anyone built a Civitas Administratum Sector? I'm tempted to get one, but I don't have a good gauge for how much it builds. Is it as much as you'd want to fill a 5x4 table? Or would you go for 2 sets?
Maybe one day I'll get around to printing the Cy-Tilez set instead of GW's set, but as cool as they look and how cheap they are versus GW terrain, they are time consuming to print and need the printer super well dialled in (which mine isn't!).
For what it helps non-green ones were built with that. Had couple more in box. Had 12 buildings of variouss sizes from it.
Greens were from original at starter(and maybe some more)
Hmmm, so it looks like not quite enough for a single gaming table?
drbored wrote: I wouldn't fuss about the details on the Arvus. They're decoration, like pintle weapons on tanks and hunter killer missiles on tanks.
The scale is too small to worry about little bits and bobs. Chaff launchers, refueling booms, put them on or leave them, we already have the rules for the Arvus and I don't foresee them changing.
Doesn't LI include pintle weapons in the profile these days? lol
Rhinos have different rules depending on whether they have a pintle storm bolter, pintle mounted multimelta, oe pintle havoc launcher.
The rhino is the only one that gets rules for their pintle weapons if I'm not missing something. For Kratos, Baneblades, Predators, Sicarans, Malcadors and Leman Russes its only for optics without any game relevance.
But thats another reason why I actually think the Arvus will get rules for them. The six tanks that don't have rules for pintle weapons all have actual main weapons and sponsons so there is no need for additional pintle weapon rules. The Rhino on the other hand only has the pintle weapons so it gets rules for them. And the Arvus would fall in the Rhinos category
lost_lilliputian wrote: I have a question for anyone that might have had or played Aeronautica Imperialis and switched to Legion Imperialis.
The gameplay of Aeronautica had been criticized by a few for being simplistic and less detailed than its previous edition. What I'm wondering is in regards to aircraft, how does Legion compare to Aeronautica?
I realise of course Legion is a combined arms game with tanks, infantry and aircraft. Just wondered how the aircraft play out in game.
If someone liked flyers in Aeronautica would they like them in Legions?
AI is a game about outmaneuvering the opponent in a dogfight. There're ground target to attack but the main focus is still air vs air
In LI flyer come in from reserve, drop bombs, do a straffing run, then return to reserve until the next round, unless they have the hover rule allow them to stay and fight.
Ok thank you. LI sounds definitely about supporting the main army more than anything.
The plastic Arvus reignited some interest in Legions for me. I have mainly Imperial Navy but a few Astartes flyers too.
At the very least I thought some LI ground defence units with anti-aircraft weapons and flyers might combine well with some home grown scenarios of attack raids etc.
The flyer rules in LI are very basic and if you want detailed flyer rules, you'll be disappointed, better off playing Aeronautica.
While people complain Aeronautica has been dumbed down compared to the first version of the game, it's still detailed enough to have some fun.
But then Aeronautica doesn't have comprehensive rules for ground forces, ground forces in AI simply come down what anti-aircraft fire they can provide, so AI only represents air to ground and ground to air combat, not ground to ground, but it does what it does in a lot more detail.
It's hard to have a game that does both ground forces and air forces simultaneously and does them both justice, because they occur on very different time scales, distances and levels of detail.
The flyer rules in LI are very basic and if you want detailed flyer rules, you'll be disappointed, better off playing Aeronautica.
While people complain Aeronautica has been dumbed down compared to the first version of the game, it's still detailed enough to have some fun.
But then Aeronautica doesn't have comprehensive rules for ground forces, ground forces in AI simply come down what anti-aircraft fire they can provide, so AI only represents air to ground and ground to air combat, not ground to ground, but it does what it does in a lot more detail.
It's hard to have a game that does both ground forces and air forces simultaneously and does them both justice, because they occur on very different time scales, distances and levels of detail.
Thank you!
The LI miniatures do look so good even if I don't buy in to LI completely I'm trying to figure if I could use a few figures in AI as well to represent things. Either way I'm putting a few on my wish list.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Has anyone built a Civitas Administratum Sector? I'm tempted to get one, but I don't have a good gauge for how much it builds. Is it as much as you'd want to fill a 5x4 table? Or would you go for 2 sets?
I prefer a fairly terrain dense table and also buildings with some height, so take this answer in that light.
Even if Valrak is on the money (his current streak makes that likely), there’s no reason further boxes of LI won’t go up at the same time.
For instance, Predators, Sicaran, Russ and Malcadors are currently only available from the big box set. Releasing them separately remains possible. As would the expansion book.
I’m looking forward to getting some Sicarans for the new edition of Horizon Wars! I can’t justify a whole new set of Epic, but those Sicarans are too scrummy not to get a few of.
I wonder when the game core components will get a restock out to FLGS's. I had found *one* place that had some marine infantry in stock (silly P&P costs which I'm guessing was the reason why) but now even those have gone. For the time being I am stuck at a small demi-company!
Pacific wrote: I wonder when the game core components will get a restock out to FLGS's. I had found *one* place that had some marine infantry in stock (silly P&P costs which I'm guessing was the reason why) but now even those have gone. For the time being I am stuck at a small demi-company!
I know both EG and Wayland got restocks on LI recently. Sadly it didn't include the Thunderhawks I keep checking back for, but there were some starter sets & infantry boxes at least.
Yes, Wayland got a nice restock of tanks recently, managed to grab some Kratos, Baneblades & Rhinos. All my usual shops in France have yet to see a restock, though. :(
At this point we're just hoping GW puts them on the priority for printing fresh stuff. Unlike Land Raiders and Armigers and a dozen other things that people *want* but GW seems to not want to print.
gorgon wrote: I'm shocked anyone pays those Armiger prices. And based on GW's track record, the price isn't gonna change much if they eventually get a plastic kit.
Yes but a fair speculation I feel if they do get a kit is it could just as likely be a set of 8 on sprue cover both armigers and both armiger and moirax loadouts, 2 and 2, like they've been doing with dreadnoughts and will be doing again for deredo and leviathans, with 4 per sprue each with 2 a and 2 b loadouts.
So could totally see like 1 sprue with all 4 doubled up in a box for the same price as questoris or a bit more, 55-60$ range.
VAYASEN wrote: Few questions as ive been too busy at work and spare time been pure painting up what I have.
1- New Book pre order, late January?
2- Will new units be up for pre order late jan too(to match whats in the book there was a land raider pictured?)
3- Will the unit cards ever come back into stock?
Thanks
1- The expansion book was said to "be available to pre-order later this month" and there is only one more preorder slot this month on the 27th so that will be when it goes up
2- Very likely not everything that gets rules in the new book just like we still don't have everything form the core book, but everything thats still missing from the core book plus a few from the expansion book should be coming together with the the new book
3- Normally I would say likely not since they say "Sold out Online" but they still display them on the webstore instead of removing them altogether and the Administratum sector terrain bundle that also was "Sold out Online" is back to just "Temporarily out of stock" so they might do another print run? Its not 100% but I would say there is a chance, but if they come back its very likely just one more print run and after that they are gone for good.
What I could also see happening is that we get new card packs for the expansion book with the new stuff and those may also include the old cards?
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Do GW ever reprint cards? I thought cards were basically always a one-and-done thing from GW.
This is very often the case. Sometimes they'll revisit old card sets... but it's once in a blue moon and completely unpredictable.
Generally, if GW produces something on a card, just use that as a hint to make your own. They're not worth the chase, or getting used to having them only to miss out on something later on because it sells out too fast.
We'll see what all is coming when this Sunday rolls around. I have a feeling they're holding off on revealing anything until we see the 30k reveals for solar auxilia, as there might be some crossover they are being coy about, like the Light Sentinel
Just seen this. Is that correct, this sunday for pre orders...does it include new units?
GW said preorders this month. We know it won't be in preorder 20.1. Check the calendar how many saturday's left in january
GW generally doesn't tell everything and can be vaque(don't assume too much if they say "coming to you real soon") but if they flat out say this kind of thing flat out dates they are pretty honest about that(direct lying isn't generally good PR)
Of course there's always off chance of something weird happening(LI was originally in august release after all) but odds of another "pull back book due to error" at this point is pretty damn small.
In addition to the WarCom statement about "later this month"; The TGA rumour thread has a couple of regular rumour posters claiming that the next AOS wave was pushed back a week to Feb 3rd.
AOS is really the only major release that could plausibly 'compete' with LI in the near future, so Jan 27th now being clear is a good sign.
And good time too. I'm starting to run out of new army lists to try at this rate with existing models (hate playing identical lists game to game).
Though even at the BEST of times myself first time I get to field any new units is 22.2...And that's assuming FLGS get their orders in time THIS time. Last time it was 3 week late...Grumble grumble GW and their bloody delivery issues. TOW is ALSO late for the local FLGS it seems...
They put orders to GW right when it's possible but delivery dates or even do they get items(didn't get any marine infantry boxes for LI for example...) far from certain.
So I'm hoping to play with them on 22.2 but in my mind preparing for possibility of getting them on my hands on march :/ But at least I'll get chance to see other people's paintings in the meanwhile. And maybe more youtube battle reports. Better than nothing!
xttz wrote:In addition to the WarCom statement about "later this month"; The TGA rumour thread has a couple of regular rumour posters claiming that the next AOS wave was pushed back a week to Feb 3rd.
AOS is really the only major release that could plausibly 'compete' with LI in the near future, so Jan 27th now being clear is a good sign.
Which is very likely the reason last weeks preorders where a little empty, Dawnbringers/FEc should have likely been in addition to the three big AoS models.
tneva82 wrote:Though even at the BEST of times myself first time I get to field any new units is 22.2...And that's assuming FLGS get their orders in time THIS time. Last time it was 3 week late...Grumble grumble GW and their bloody delivery issues. TOW is ALSO late for the local FLGS it seems...
tneva82 wrote:Though even at the BEST of times myself first time I get to field any new units is 22.2...And that's assuming FLGS get their orders in time THIS time. Last time it was 3 week late...Grumble grumble GW and their bloody delivery issues. TOW is ALSO late for the local FLGS it seems...
I'm still waiting for my launch day order...
Thanks for proving saying "it could always be worse"
Maybe I should mentally prepare to be waiting in june...Can't get dissapointed then eh?
Some people will just buy rules to read without buying the box; or view them in a store and such. So its likely good to have it on sale on its own so that people don't complain that GW is locking the game rules to a "super expensive boxed set only".
As awful as I think the rulebook is, it's a good thing for the success of the game to have a lot of them available. And again in the absence of a free PDF download of the core rules, having a ton of them available cheaply on eBay (some of them still on 99p start bids at time of writing) can only help with access to the game
What I mostly wonder: What are their Plans for the future?
-Expansions for the Early Heresy? - Prospero, Isvaan III, Istvaan V?
-Other Armour Marks for the Early Heresy? (Mk4 with an Istvaan III Expansion?)
-Legion specific Units?
-Legion specific Formations? (Thousand Sons Demi-Company with Psyker-Captains or Sons of Horus Justicarii Company?)
-Characters as a Command Upgrade?
-Will so many Weapon options for Tanks (see Leman Russ Tank and what we know) in that Scale and without Point costs for Weapon outloads really Work?
-Will there be "non City" Terrain in the future?
-WIll there be distinctions between the Loyal Mechanicum and the Dark Mechanicum?
I don't really think we should expect GW to release alternate armor marks, at least not for a long while. Similarly, special infantry units might be far off, unless resin.
I would expect them to try and release as much stuff that's useable for as many players as possible the fastest. Which would mean "regular" legion or SA units.
tneva82 wrote: Infantry with different heavy weapons seems given since rules interact with stuff like infantry with lascannos, heavy bolters etc.
Which, IMHO, is waaaay too much detail for the scale. But well, what do I know.
Agreed, but at the same time we see that even tanks like the Leman Russ have all sorts of weapon variants for their secondary weapons. Weren't there also rules for the canopy mounted weapons?
different heavy and special weapons teams work, they don't need all of them though, really just a general purpose one (the missile launcher we have), then a better anti tank (likely laser cannon) and a better anti infantry (rotor cannon?), not a lot of point doing all when the changes will be minor
unless they are all basically "good enough" so you don't mind having several of them, unlike the poor plasma support guys
I think its a given they won't go down the "points for weapon upgrade " route, I think its also a given this basically won't work
Tiny bit of green stuff just to smooth over the base, put the minis on that and then some fine sand. I'm basing all of mine in that way and TBH it doesn't add to much to the building time.
Preorder of just made to order models that could take up to 6 months to receive and of which will only be sold for 2 weeks... Sounds like a pretty weak preorder weekend in which someone screwed up yet again somewhere delaying what was supposed to be announced... Their infrastructure clearly can't handle supporting this many game systems.
Well, if we think about it - how much of their current plastic manufacturing capacity is tied up trying to fill outstanding demand for the first wave of LI + the first wave of TOW? We're talking a couple dozen kits at least across those product ranges, before you get into things like orcs, foot knights, or the next wave of LI. Each kit is basically a separate press assuming they are running in parallel - and iircGW has scaled up to 60-80 presses total or something like that? So like up to a quarter to a third of GWs production machines might be working on clearing a backlog unless they have just a few presses that they are rotating production through serially for these old products (which I doubt because they probably have a lot of orders they need to fill and want to clear that queue quickly).
Not sure I understand the reference. Daikatana sounds familiar (besides the video game which I'm not sure is what you're referring to) but I can't place my finger on it
Whatshisface from Ion Storm software took out a full page advert for the game in one or more magazines with that printed in very large text. It was not a great look, and the game totally bombed because it was terrible.
It also was much-delayed by standards of the time (though 3 years is blindingly fast by some of today's metrics for video games) which I think is the source of the comparison. Duke Nukem Forever would probably be a more apt comparison now.
Have a feeling that this is just WarCom not being told about anything changing, putting up their ad copy set out a month ago and then there being zero follow-through from GW for either the WarCom guys to confirm the schedule with the people choosing the release schedule or the guys determining the release schedule not telling WarCom the new information.
Disappointing, but given GW's track record of late it's pretty much what I've come to expect from the seemingly-dubious levels of competence in a variety of support departments.
Unfortunately I think we all fell for warcoms saying later this month meaning order this month.
Preorder can be announced next Sunday and it's still this month. Sounds like they have a horrible little lawyer writing their previews now.
Jaxmeister wrote: Unfortunately I think we all fell for warcoms saying later this month meaning order this month.
Preorder can be announced next Sunday and it's still this month. Sounds like they have a horrible little lawyer writing their previews now.
The last preorder for January (27th) was announced in today's article. Next Sunday's article will be for a February 3rd preorder. What they published at the start of January was very clear and obviously incorrect.
Perhaps there has been another unintended delay, but it's incredibly frustrating when there's no communication or transparency about that.
Krinsath wrote: Have a feeling that this is just WarCom not being told about anything changing, putting up their ad copy set out a month ago and then there being zero follow-through from GW for either the WarCom guys to confirm the schedule with the people choosing the release schedule or the guys determining the release schedule not telling WarCom the new information.
This has to be the case, otherwise they would have just editited the article to say soon instead of this month as they did many times before.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Interestingly they have this at the bottom:
* These products are delayed in Japan and Australia.
** These products are delayed in Japan.
But nothing in the article those footnotes actually belong to. A region delay also doesn't really make sense for products that don't have a fixed release and are just made to order anyway.
So it seems likely those footnotes where meant for LI and something happened so not just Japan and Australia are delayed but everyone else too.
Which would mean it's a very short term change If they already had the Sunday article written for LI and changed it afterwards
Well there was the recent news from a number of stores that they did not receive their TOW orders from GW. At first it seemed to be mainly a US issue due to weather in Memphis, but I also heard that there were uk retailers with the same issues.
Could be a sign that gws logistical capabilities is straining under pressure and the warehouses are having trouble keeping up.
chaos0xomega wrote: Well there was the recent news from a number of stores that they did not receive their TOW orders from GW. At first it seemed to be mainly a US issue due to weather in Memphis, but I also heard that there were uk retailers with the same issues.
Could be a sign that gws logistical capabilities is straining under pressure and the warehouses are having trouble keeping up.
GW has been unable to deliver pretty much ANYTHING in time to FLGS I frequent since leviathan.
Sometimes it has been minor and items come like tuesday after release date. Other times like leviathan almost 3 weeks(thursday when saturday would been 3 weeks after release date).
Unsurprisingly TOW was delayed here as well.
So yeah they have been straining for quite a while. Probably why they went to 2 week preorders as default. Seems it had some help in UK but not perfect and outside UK even less.
And here locally I'm assuming at least 1 week delay by default and not planning on taking anything to tournaments from releases in at least 4 weeks after release date even if unpainted fine.
Krinsath wrote: It also was much-delayed by standards of the time (though 3 years is blindingly fast by some of today's metrics for video games) which I think is the source of the comparison. Duke Nukem Forever would probably be a more apt comparison now.
Bingo.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dysartes wrote: That's an... interesting comparison - care to expand on it a little?
I mean, I don't recall any advertising for LI saying that [LEAD DESIGNER] is going to make you his b&^%h...
Oh, Dysartes, GW has made all of us their beaches without actually saying it. They have the financial reports to prove it....
Here the deliveries have been pretty consistently on schedule, there was a window towards the end of 2022 into early 2023 where everything hit week-long delays, as well as some difficulties earlier in covid, but other than that I haven't seen much disruption until now
chaos0xomega wrote: Well, if we think about it - how much of their current plastic manufacturing capacity is tied up trying to fill outstanding demand for the first wave of LI + the first wave of TOW?
Is anyone waiting on orders from GW themselves, or is it just third parties? I wonder if some stores over-sold and instead of cancelling orders they decided to wait until the restock, either due to an error in their own stock system or a miscommunication from GW.
It seems like GW have a pretty fixed number of kits to give to independent stockists and the stockists find out only a few days before the preorder goes up.
chaos0xomega wrote: Well, if we think about it - how much of their current plastic manufacturing capacity is tied up trying to fill outstanding demand for the first wave of LI + the first wave of TOW?
Is anyone waiting on orders from GW themselves, or is it just third parties? I wonder if some stores over-sold and instead of cancelling orders they decided to wait until the restock, either due to an error in their own stock system or a miscommunication from GW.
It seems like GW have a pretty fixed number of kits to give to independent stockists and the stockists find out only a few days before the preorder goes up.
For LI or TOW?
I certainly haven't had anything I ordered for TOW ship from GW directly yet. Nothing more than "pre-order received" in order tracking.
tauist wrote: It's like the Age Of Darkness release all over again. GW releases a game and leaves it hanging. I made the right choice sticking to AT for now
Make no mistake, Adeptus Titanicus is also languishing
LI has invigorated interest in AT here but the only effect that's had is there are now 3 people angry they can't buy the AT starter anywhere.
I think that some selections of Legions stuff are going into independent stores. My FLGS had a pile of Rhinos and Thunder hawks arrive last week, but you can't get Kratos or marine infantry for love nor money. Element Games (UK) has a load of listings that say 2nd Feb for new items arriving, I guess there is stuff just being produced and sent out all the time.
tauist wrote: It's like the Age Of Darkness release all over again. GW releases a game and leaves it hanging. I made the right choice sticking to AT for now
Make no mistake, Adeptus Titanicus is also languishing
LI has invigorated interest in AT here but the only effect that's had is there are now 3 people angry they can't buy the AT starter anywhere.
It doesn't help that players who decide to part with a bit of their AT or epic collection currently get called scalpers for doing what amounts to a public service at this point.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pacific wrote: I think that some selections of Legions stuff are going into independent stores. My FLGS had a pile of Rhinos and Thunder hawks arrive last week, but you can't get Kratos or marine infantry for love nor money. Element Games (UK) has a load of listings that say 2nd Feb for new items arriving, I guess there is stuff just being produced and sent out all the time.
Local store has/had a few rhino boxes and a bout 5 reaver boxes and that's it.
The one thing I haven't seen available in any third-party store since launch is the Thunderhawk. Planning to check my local store for one next time I need some paint.
Every once in a while i find a thunderhawk randomly online, but they seem to sell out in the time it takes me to decide if I want to spend the money or wait.
It's not just independent stores, my local GW only got the Launch Boxes for LI in any quantity, they didn't get enough of anything else to fulfil in store pre-orders let alone have any shelf stock. Interestingly with no supporting products they still have launch boxes sat in the store unsold. Which I can kinda understand as with so much of the range unavailable people don't want to be left with just the contents of the box.
Flinty wrote: Wayland Games is currently showing 10+ rhino and marine infantry boxes in stock.
I’m….distrustful of Wayland when it comes to their stock levels.
They fixed their stock levels issue years ago by going to live-stock on their website.
It does seem to work for released items but they still don't get it right for Pre-Orders. Last two times I've Pre-Ordered with them it's been at least a month after the release before they actually had the product. Now is this because they over sold or GW under supplied I have no idea? They were however good at letting me know I could cancel if I wanted to, no fuss.
Yep everyone is waiting on the second wave which I'm hoping/guessing will happen this weekend or just before. Which would make sense if GW are doing a mostly "Made to Order" shipping order this coming week.
In the end this means that Old World is getting the same kind of volume of launch attention as 40K or AoS have had in the past - which is really encouraging numbers wise!
Tallonian4th wrote: It does seem to work for released items but they still don't get it right for Pre-Orders. Last two times I've Pre-Ordered with them it's been at least a month after the release before they actually had the product. Now is this because they over sold or GW under supplied I have no idea? They were however good at letting me know I could cancel if I wanted to, no fuss.
Has it happened with anything other than GW stuff? That might be indicative of the underlying issue.
It does seem to work for released items but they still don't get it right for Pre-Orders. Last two times I've Pre-Ordered with them it's been at least a month after the release before they actually had the product. Now is this because they over sold or GW under supplied I have no idea? They were however good at letting me know I could cancel if I wanted to, no fuss.
I've tried to make three release-day preorders with Wayland recently and the best outcome was the LI baneblades arriving on the Wednesday after release, despite it being marked as ready to go on the Sunday. My starter box from EG arrived on the Saturday.
The other two times their website just had repeated timeouts and 503 server errors until there was no stock available to order.
tauist wrote: It's like the Age Of Darkness release all over again. GW releases a game and leaves it hanging. I made the right choice sticking to AT for now
Make no mistake, Adeptus Titanicus is also languishing
LI has invigorated interest in AT here but the only effect that's had is there are now 3 people angry they can't buy the AT starter anywhere.
It's interesting...the AT starter is available on the US site. And there are still LI starter boxes, infantry boxes, and Rhino boxes available on eBay (US) at this moment...some discounted even. I know the conversation here was more about the individual kits than the starter. But it seems like either the US was stocked a little better than normal, or there isn't quite as much demand here for LI. And if I had to place money on one side, I'd probably go with the latter. Feel like maybe the nostalgia play is hitting a little better over there than here.
I need the next book, because I want access to new Formations.
Not because I don’t want to duplicate existing formations in my list, but I want to get an idea of how flexible my existing collection is, and how future releases might affect said options, and the look, feel and shape of my army.
I for one am happy to drop £100 a month on kits, and I now know I’m perfectly capable of getting that painted too. But I still want flexibility, options and choice.
There is definitely an element of not buying and painting up masses of stuff until the Great Slaughter's lists and units arrive.
I've got to about 1k points with a Warhound. Gives me enough for some "intro games' to learn the game, and leaving plenty of space for the big ticket stuff that is coming for the next wave (Land Raiders, Bikes, Drop Pods etc). and up towards 2k which I think is the level this game is going to settle at.
Oh, thats pretty. I hope that theres a full size kit for these guys coming. Thats clearly an image of a render there - the detailing looks like its for a full size tank rather than an epic scale one to me, though I could be mistaken.
chaos0xomega wrote: Oh, thats pretty. I hope that theres a full size kit for these guys coming. Thats clearly an image of a render there - the detailing looks like its for a full size tank rather than an epic scale one to me, though I could be mistaken.
Now that looks like a proper Superheavy Tank If that comes out on 28mil, don't know if I can resist it, even though I have no sensible way of fielding it in games
Crablezworth wrote: Is there any chance it'd be a dual kit with the stormhammer?
Spoiler:
Pretty unlikely, they would have shown it together if that was the case.
More likely that there will be another kit that has the Shadowsword as one build and then also the Stormsword and maybe the Stormblade as they all use the same hull configuration
xttz wrote: Apparently (I haven't seen it) today's WH+ Loremasters video on Solar Aux brought us some new box art...
Spoiler:
Love the look of the mini, but that got me all excited that they were actually going to start using traditional artwork for the game. And that was actually a silly thing for me to expect, considering all of the game's presentation has been entirely devoid of it so far.
New article about a new book for HH and at the end they also say:
This epic campaign book is designed very much as a companion piece to the first supplement to Legions Imperialis, The Great Slaughter**
What I really don't like is the asterisk for our book which says:
The Great Slaughter will also be out a little later this year.
Not even a "soon" let alone a next month kinda sounds like a big delay to me. "A little later this year" is the same wording they used back when LI was delayed which took 4 months from that point to release. And I hope we aren't looking at the second book they need to reprint for some reason.
This epic campaign book is designed very much as a companion piece to the first supplement to Legions Imperialis, The Great Slaughter**
What I really don't like is the asterisk for our book which says:
The Great Slaughter will also be out a little later this year.
Not even a "soon" let alone a next month kinda sounds like a big delay to me. "A little later this year" is the same wording they used back when LI was delayed which took 4 months from that point to release. And I hope we aren't looking at the second book they need to reprint for some reason.
I'm wondering if a certain red sea conflict is delaying shipping and arrival of a lot China sourced products?
Not even a "soon" let alone a next month kinda sounds like a big delay to me. "A little later this year" is the same wording they used back when LI was delayed which took 4 months from that point to release. And I hope we aren't looking at the second book they need to reprint for some reason.
I bet this is more to do with making the next release wave more manageable. Even without the dozen or so supplement kits we're still waiting on a lot of things covered by the core rules:
individual tank boxes
2 support sets
reboxed AT/AI units
reboxed terrain
knight/titan battleforces
Prior to the original announcement a lot of us were originally expecting the supplement to be in Spring as there's so much stuff to come out.
It looks like they saved Money on the wrong places and even on the Management; I don't know any other Company who failed to recover from the Pandemic like Games Workshop.
Not only LI, everything of the last two Years gives the feeling only incompetent people remained in the Management...
How will they manage this Company when Cavill makes their IPs eternal mainstream cash cows?
Faster Edition circles and logistical Problems. 40k as a Mainstream SciFi setting will kill them... they will never work up that backlock...
assuming their troubles are caused by the pandemic and were not there before or caused by something else that was there before and just well hidden from people because a global crisis was an easy excuse
kodos wrote: assuming their troubles are caused by the pandemic and were not there before or caused by something else that was there before and just well hidden from people because a global crisis was an easy excuse
Covid is no excuse for a January announcements of 'available this month' to 2 weeks later 'later this year'.
They would do their customers a huge service with just a slight, rough explanation.
kodos wrote: assuming their troubles are caused by the pandemic and were not there before or caused by something else that was there before and just well hidden from people because a global crisis was an easy excuse
Covid is no excuse for a January announcements of 'available this month' to 2 weeks later 'later this year'.
They would do their customers a huge service with just a slight, rough explanation.
I've heard its pushed back to march 2nd.
In terms of blind speculation, not the first to mention it but perhaps somehow related to the red sea issues and suez traffic being way down going around the horn of africa instead. If the book or something else is china printed/manufactured and not uk, could explain part of it.
Well. If somebody knows how to fix issues tip. Don't complain here. Show it to gw and rake profit.
Gw wants problems solved as well. Somebody actually knows solution that makes financial sense(buying entire china's factory output does not ) can rake hefty reward
Dysartes wrote: If it is something that reasonable, though, why not clearly state there's been a delay due to shipping issues?
Mind you, this isGW we're talking about...
Because no matter what they say, there will always be the usual suspects spinning it as they're incompetent, lying, etc.
It's also likely there there isn't just one problem they can point at. It's likely a whole slew of things and some of them might well be the Pandemic still rearing its head in various knock on domino effects. Some might even just be active cashflow issues where GW has a slow sales month or an expensive bill month and suddenly plans get delayed and shuffled around. Throw a mistake or two in; throw a delayed boat; throw a sub contractor taking longer and then a global disaster somewhere and pop you've got a bunch of things not working as they should having knock on effects on the release schedule for ages.
Heck some could be just tiny things or internal company politics or metrics or such.
Dysartes wrote: If it is something that reasonable, though, why not clearly state there's been a delay due to shipping issues?
Mind you, this isGW we're talking about...
If GW announce a reason when it's something mundane like a shipping issue, the speculation will be incessant when they don't announce a reason (when perhaps it's a strategic decision, owing to backlogs with other products or whatever). Things get delayed; I think trying to explain it can become a no-win situation for a company.
Dysartes wrote: If it is something that reasonable, though, why not clearly state there's been a delay due to shipping issues?
Mind you, this isGW we're talking about...
If GW announce a reason when it's something mundane like a shipping issue, the speculation will incessant when they don't announce a reason (when perhaps it's a strategic decision, owing to backlogs with other products or whatever). Things get delayed; I think trying to explain it can become a no-win situation for a company.
It can also be a no win when there's lots of little problems that add up. In the end all firms have problems, many don't amount to anything worth reporting on to customers. Heck it might even just be that GW has a few people in the estimations block who under-estimate how a few stages will go and suddenly that "oh yeah it will be done in 2 weeks" turns into 4
Dysartes wrote: If it is something that reasonable, though, why not clearly state there's been a delay due to shipping issues?
Mind you, this isGW we're talking about...
If GW announce a reason when it's something mundane like a shipping issue, the speculation will be incessant when they don't announce a reason (when perhaps it's a strategic decision, owing to backlogs with other products or whatever). Things get delayed; I think trying to explain it can become a no-win situation for a company.
Wouldn't be too bad then if this is true.
The next possible preorder would be on the 3rd and out on the 17th so March 2nd would only be 2 weeks later.
So while it is a delay from the original January preorder its not even close to how bad the original delay was.
And they could still release the rest of the wave 1 stuff before that (Maybe for preorder next week?)
Wouldn't be too bad then if this is true.
The next possible preorder would be on the 3rd and out on the 17th so March 2nd would only be 2 weeks later.
So while it is a delay from the original January preorder its not even close to how bad the original delay was.
And they could still release the rest of the wave 1 stuff before that (Maybe for preorder next week?)
Yeah. Could be worse.
And allows me time to prepare cash for bigger preorder.
The way supply issues are I might want to preorder everything I want RIGHT NOW IMMEDIATELY and not part now part later after alll...For example I would need 2 box(baneblade and russ) to get 1500 SA. I didn't preorder baneblades when they came. Good luck me getting them now I have put reservation to FLGS but anybody's guess when it gets more from GW(we are still waiting for ANY marine infantry ever...0 boxes of those so far)
You know the rules are all there as they used them in that bat-rep months ago, and I suspect they designed the game as one block and then split into chunks.
I wish someone would get on and leak a copy of the rulebook so we can procure miniatures for it 'by alternative means' and just play the damn full game already But I suspect my interests and GW's might not align on that one!
And they could still release the rest of the wave 1 stuff before that (Maybe for preorder next week?)
Honestly I really hope they manage to squeeze in another wave before then if the supplement isn't coming until March. Without filling the major gaps like support boxes & individual core set kit releases, I worry the game will lose all momentum.
And they could still release the rest of the wave 1 stuff before that (Maybe for preorder next week?)
Honestly I really hope they manage to squeeze in another wave before then if the supplement isn't coming until March. Without filling the major gaps like support boxes & individual core set kit releases, I worry the game will lose all momentum.
Agreed. While most players are obviously interested in getting shiny new toys, extra detachments... getting the fundamentals right and a steady supply of the main units + the models you can so far only get from purchasing additional core set is more important (a scenery refill wouldn't go amiss either). Really hope we get Predators, Sicarans, Malcador and Leman Russes announced this Sunday, even if The Great Slaughter is pushed back.
100% agree, not a vast amount of point in releasing more rules when people can't get the stuff they have already released rules for
also hoping they don't go too far down the route of releasing books before a few fundamental issues around game balance are resolved as thats likely going to require a 1.1 release of the books
leopard wrote: also hoping they don't go too far down the route of releasing books before a few fundamental issues around game balance are resolved as thats likely going to require a 1.1 release of the books
leopard wrote: also hoping they don't go too far down the route of releasing books before a few fundamental issues around game balance are resolved as thats likely going to require a 1.1 release of the books
Welcome to Games Workshop, you must be new here
yes nothing like a bit of hopeless optimism is there...
whoever came up with this "upgrades should cost no points" stuff GW have bitten on hard wants introducing to the back of the chemical sheds
whoever came up with this "upgrades should cost no points" stuff GW have bitten on hard wants introducing to the back of the chemical sheds
Especially since its not consistent, there are a few units that have point upgrades. Rhinos with their pintle weapons, Thunderbolts with their bolt cannon and Questoris Knights with their Thunderstrike Gauntlets.
So its not that GW did a blanket decision that more complexity in list building isn't worth the "this option is obviously better" problem, they deliberately decided for each individual unit that its fine for them. Vanquisher cannons come to mind.
Unless of course the three units with point upgrades shouldn't have them and those are leftovers from an earlier rules draft that mistakenly got left in which also wouldn't be a great sign after they already reprinted the book.
Not saying those that do have point upgrades shouldn't have them, more that if they can have them why nobody else?
And they could still release the rest of the wave 1 stuff before that (Maybe for preorder next week?)
Honestly I really hope they manage to squeeze in another wave before then if the supplement isn't coming until March. Without filling the major gaps like support boxes & individual core set kit releases, I worry the game will lose all momentum.
Same here,
they could make a release Block with Predators, Sicarans, Leman Russ, Malcadors, Warhound Titans and those two Support Sets with the Static Weapons and Rapiers for both Factions with other Stuff to play the full Rulebooks Army List Options..
And they could still release the rest of the wave 1 stuff before that (Maybe for preorder next week?)
Honestly I really hope they manage to squeeze in another wave before then if the supplement isn't coming until March. Without filling the major gaps like support boxes & individual core set kit releases, I worry the game will lose all momentum.
That assumes GW has choice.
And not say those and rest being delayed by say ship carrying them deciding to detour rather than brave missiles(or being held on other side of the world due to issues causes by lack of water)
And they could still release the rest of the wave 1 stuff before that (Maybe for preorder next week?)
Honestly I really hope they manage to squeeze in another wave before then if the supplement isn't coming until March. Without filling the major gaps like support boxes & individual core set kit releases, I worry the game will lose all momentum.
Agreed. While most players are obviously interested in getting shiny new toys, extra detachments... getting the fundamentals right and a steady supply of the main units + the models you can so far only get from purchasing additional core set is more important (a scenery refill wouldn't go amiss either). Really hope we get Predators, Sicarans, Malcador and Leman Russes announced this Sunday, even if The Great Slaughter is pushed back.
From my POV, getting the fundamentals also means getting the items from The Great Slaughter (and perhaps the next "expansion" too). We have detachment types listed in the corerulebook that we cannot fill because there are no datasheets in that book for them (i.e. vanguard, artillery, light armor). Without units for these detachments, the game is incomplete.
It's fine so long as GW recognise that and don't axe the game. Plenty a game has survived a shortfall of sales to recover later. It's not ideal, but its not the end of the world.
The end of the world is if GW go "whelp its not getting traction - kill it"
chaos0xomega wrote: The release delays and stock shortages are going to strangle LI in its infancy.
For that mankind has to have so short attention span it's doomed to die off anyway. At that point fate of one game is minor compared to death of entire human race
chaos0xomega wrote: The release delays and stock shortages are going to strangle LI in its infancy.
Eh, I dunno. I think most people interested in the game will still be so a couple months from now, and those that aren't...still won't and probably wouldn't be even with more stock on the shelves. It feels to me like this game has a very targeted/niche/inelastic audience even for GW. Just my own impression based on zero real data.
And as an AT player, I think LI players should expect some longer gaps with support. AT did it better for getting its main Titans all released within a couple months of launch...but it still was a couple months, during which time people were using older models for Reavers and Warhounds. And then it was maybe an every 6 months schedule? At least before things got even slower. They talked about or hinted at a number of things for AT that still haven't seen the light of day. So those other factions for the game might be a pretty good wait if they even happen.
The Cursed City fiasco was far worse as we had no indication at all that it would return at a later time, and we just assumed it was discontinued on day one.
With Legions Imperialis we at least know that it's only a delay. Also Titanicus was still thriving despite a long drought of releases, and rumours that Epic would be returning.
And finally there are 3rd party alternatives, which only leaves the matter of purchasing either the starter set or core rule book. Actually, just looking on Vanguard there's alternative resin models for both the Warhound and Direwolf...worth a butchers.
I don’t mean to throw shade at the poster, but we have but a single, unsubstantiated, unverifiable, claim in that regard. Of course I’ve no reason to doubt it was shared in good faith.
Doesn’t mean it’s not true, but does mean that for now we shouldn’t put much weight on it. And for now, I have to doubt the claim.
I don’t mean to throw shade at the poster, but we have but a single, unsubstantiated, unverifiable, claim in that regard. Of course I’ve no reason to doubt it was shared in good faith.
Doesn’t mean it’s not true, but does mean that for now we shouldn’t put much weight on it. And for now, I have to doubt the claim.
The only question is what the delayed date will be, we know it's delayed because it was supposed to be "available to pre-order later this month" but we have now passed the last preorder window for this month, and now we have WarCom saying "The Great Slaughter will also be out a little later this year."
"a little later this year" when you're only in January usually means "not soon". But given we haven't even got to "sooner than you think" yet, goodness knows what they mean by "a little later this year".
And finally there are 3rd party alternatives, which only leaves the matter of purchasing either the starter set or core rule book. Actually, just looking on Vanguard there's alternative resin models for both the Warhound and Direwolf...worth a butchers.
Alternatives are options for the stuff still missing from wave 1.5? (deredeos, leviathans, rapiers, aa) not to mention all the aeronautica planes that have yet to "come back". Still feels like a loooong feb waiting for some pretty key stuff like artillery, even if a suitable stand in for rapiers can be used while waiting. If stuff like the civitas ruins are designed in uk but made in china, really hoping the red sea stuff dies down.
The only question is what the delayed date will be, we know it's delayed because it was supposed to be "available to pre-order later this month" but we have now passed the last preorder window for this month, and now we have WarCom saying "The Great Slaughter will also be out a little later this year."
"a little later this year" when you're only in January usually means "not soon". But given we haven't even got to "sooner than you think" yet, goodness knows what they mean by "a little later this year".
AFAIK currently march 2nd is the new date, not saying that date won't slip if indeed part of the reason for delays prove to be outside GW's control (red sea shipping).
Thing is, even if no one knows the cause of the delay, like with last releases delay, those sent copies for early for review had to sit on those for months given the re-packaging delay with the starter.
It's possible that those may already be in hand in some cases or those awaiting review copies are aware when they will be receiving them. If the plan indeed was to have pre-orders up this month before whatever the delay is occurred, its a fair assumption that may not have entirely delayed review copies, perhaps just some of the miniatures or part of what was supposed to be sent out. When it comes to the rulebook, we know they printed in the uk, at least initially. It's possible great slaughter is all uk printed or they did an initial run in country and the rest in china.
I don’t mean to throw shade at the poster, but we have but a single, unsubstantiated, unverifiable, claim in that regard. Of course I’ve no reason to doubt it was shared in good faith.
Doesn’t mean it’s not true, but does mean that for now we shouldn’t put much weight on it. And for now, I have to doubt the claim.
Well. ONLY claim that is to be doubted is date on march.
Of course that means it could easily be april, may, june, july...
But it is 100% official release was delayed. We knew it was delayed on last SUNDAY...Because if it wasn't delayed they would have announced that on sunday. GW flat out said preorder in january and guess what? Last preorders of january are today. And on last sunday we knew they would not be here.
So last sunday it was already official there was delay. Only claim we don't know for fact is 2.3 for new day.
So since you doubt the date why you think 2.3 is false? It doesn't even sound like week or two extra delay because wording was "later this year". You expecting even later than 2nd march?
An obvious problem with conditioning your customer base on hardcore FOMO, if you stumble a release people aren't inclined to wait around for it, they just skip to the next thing.
tneva82 wrote: Except legions is stock item so there's no MO.
Limited edition book is FOMO. Stock item isn't.
FOMO absolutely also works on general stock items when there's a shortage, and when people are trained that they must have every new shiny on day 1, but the shiny is late, they won't buy it on day 30, because they'll be busy buying the shiny that's new that day.
I think the system is working as intended, you buy the new shiny, you put most of it on the pile without even removing the wrap, next week you buy the next shiny. GW obviously thinks that the sales they lose because of underprinting each product are more than compensated by training people to never sleep on a new item.
no more FOMO or relying on people impulse buying but never using it
for now everything works as GW wants it, people buy it, are interested for a while and drop it to buy something else
to poor ones are just those who bought it to actually play with it, something GW does not really care
I mean is that a GW masterplan or just how geeks are in general. I'm fairly sure people build "piles of shame" with other model brands too and have been doing so since for decades.
Annnnnnnnnnnd do it in lots of other hobbies too.
Also I'm fairly sure the "I've got a room of boxes of unbuilt" are the exceptions to the norm - but higher represented online population group.
Don't get me wrong I hate lack of product too and I'm sitting here waiting for Forces of Fantasy to restock at Wayland (Element Games is showing restocks in early Feb which might be the 2nd big wave)
GW most certainly use FOMO, but when you hit the point of calling every product FOMO I think that's more a personal impression than a GW marketing strategy.
yes and no
buying more that you ever going to use and hoping between systems is common
be it wargaming, boardgames or scale models
yet so far GW is the only company that actively use that to sell products and adjusted their releases to remove the "do you really need it" part of the purchase for the gamers as well
like making sure no one knows the rules before it went on pre-orders and because it will sell out you cannot wait until you get the rules to decide
also the trend to a pile of shame as something positive that you want to grow instead a negative backlog that should make you stop buying is new and started from the GW communities
even doing a collection were you grow an army for display over years has changed to buy everything at once because you don't know how long it will be available or if it will ever be available after pre-order
add in that GW does not use the pre-order to determine the demand of something and have the necessary items ready for release, but as marketing toll of "buy now or never"
combine this with a given yearly price increase that even if you are not an impulse buyer and just want the things you need to play, you have the reason to buy now because will pay more later
all those things happen in general, all of those combined only in "the" (warhammer) hobby
Well, my FLGS manager would tell you exactly when he starts getting bombarded by calls and emails: the moment word comes out about allocation shortages. Until then, most people are able to "wait and see" but a soon as there's not enough to go around, everybody wants one. And he has also learned the hard way to just... not order any extras beyond what people put their names down for, because the week after, nobody cares again.
add in that GW does not use the pre-order to determine the demand of something and have the necessary items ready for release, but as marketing toll of "buy now or never"
Since it's not now or never for anything but for limited editions I prefer that rather than pay now, wait for months for release(they can't produce and ship stuff in week so no kidding preorder isn't mark of production start).
And limited edition is printed in set number anyway(hence limited) so longer preorder would just mean longer for buyers to get their items.
unless GW does not tell if it is limited or not
and/or it take years until it is available again
how many items are there that are sold out for a long time now with no one knowing when they are coming back or if they are axed with next edition
or hero models that are sold in box bundles and sometime are never released at all and sometimes shortly after and GW never telling what will be the case
add in a 3 year cycle of the main game and waiting a year until it is back in stock can mean a single game played until it is phased out again if you wait
And yes in new editions something might get axed. Too bad. Doesn't mean you can't buy it before new edition comes though.
If it was now or never...How did I just buy solar auxilia infantry? Preorder was waaaaay before...
How did I buy arachnid spiders? Preorder was literally decades ago...
Now or never...Just one big lie. Preorder was decades ago and I just 2 months ago bought. So much for now or never Bwahahaha. According to you nobody should have been able to buy that for decades. And I shouldn't have been able to buy that solar auxilia infantry either. Never mind hive tyrant I bought on fall. Or quite a lot of stuff.
People should stop spreading lies.
Apart from limited editions(duh) I haven't actually missed anything I have wanted even if I didn't get them on preorder.
I did not write limited edition but limited and this is a difference
a limited edition run with a regular release, or a limited offer that is the regular release makes the big difference here
and GW releases models in limited amounts without telling if this is actually limited or will return later (aka all the exclusive to bundle boxes heroes)
just that you get always everything you wanted does not mean a lot (I also always got everything I wanted and I never buy anything from GW on pre-order)
kodos wrote: GW releases models in limited amounts without telling if this is actually limited or will return later (aka all the exclusive to bundle boxes heroes)
scroll back the topic you reply to for the discussion if the LI models from the box will see a stand alone release or not
if GW would always be clear about that, we would not have had that discussion
if this is not enough try to find the stand alone release of the Winged Tyranid Prime or were GW writes that this is exclusive to a box and will never get a stand alone release
kodos wrote: scroll back the topic you reply to for the discussion if the LI models from the box will see a stand alone release or not
if GW would always be clear about that, we would not have had that discussion
if this is not enough try to find the stand alone release of the Winged Tyranid Prime or were GW writes that this is exclusive to a box and will never get a stand alone release
Nope, that's shifting goalposts. Here's your own quote again:
kodos wrote: GW releases models in limited amounts without telling if this is actually limited or will return later (aka all the exclusive to bundle boxes heroes)
The LI core set is a standard stock item (explicitly confirmed as such prior to release). Not to mention it released alongside some of the contents being sold separately, implying that the rest would eventually follow. No reasonable person could conclude that models like the Leman Russ or Predator would only ever be available from the November 2023 preorder, and then never again.
When Leviathan was announced it was made clear that the models inside would be made available again later. The Tyranid Prime was released via several standard stock boxed sets before eventually being sold separately. At no point was that model implied to be limited with no future availibility.
You mention "exclusive to bundle boxes heroes", but those announcement articles also consistently use phrases like "first available here" that confirm a later release for the new kit.
Now could GW communicate some of this information more clearly? Absolutely. Some of the details are only posted via social media replies, and there's an especially big gap with them explaining when many things will be available. But your underlying implication was that GW misleads customers into unecessary purchases by being dishonest about products being time-limited. That's a claim that still requires evidence.
Honestly the only mess for "its limited" that has happened in recent years that I can think of is Cursed City and its very clear that something (or several somethings) went wrong with that.
That's the only "this will be mainline for a few years" to "oh no wait we won't restock it ever" release GW have done. Even then they brought the core set back into production eventually (though the expansions were messed up entirely in my view).
So yeah that's the only real time they've mucked up on that front.
Otherwise I agree GW are pretty clear what's limited and what isn't when it comes to models.
They also appear to have sped up getting box-set first release models into their own sets in general.
Also we've seen those duel army packs steadily become a retired concept in favour of single faction packs. Which I suspect is GW reacting to the fact that people were happy for discount boxed sets; but didn't like having to trade off half of them all the time.
I'm not sure what any of this discussion has to do with Legions Imperialis, everything is a standard stock item so far, we've not had anything limited.
Part of it may be precedent set by the 40K Special Starters.
Both Indomitus and Leviathan were limited run. Not necessarily Limited Edition in the common sense thanks to MTO, but a “these sets are special and will not be around forever”. And they’re replaced with the standard, permanent starter sets of differing price and contents.
When Age of Darkness dropped, whilst pricey it was such a good discount it was widely assumed it too was a splash release, with permanent Starters to Follow. We of course now know that wasn’t the case.
But on the other hand? Adeptus Titanicus first had the Grandmaster Set, which was super limited. And a new starter set was a longer time coming.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I'm not sure what any of this discussion has to do with Legions Imperialis, everything is a standard stock item so far, we've not had anything limited.
Stock has been rather limited, but point taken. If it appears on shelves locally its mostly scooped up pretty quick still.
The big civitas box may be limited edition, or it's the first candidate to feel that way. People have been able to get the ruins here and there but those initial big civitas boxes don't seem to be coming back.
Both Indomitus and Leviathan were limited run. Not necessarily Limited Edition in the common sense thanks to MTO, but a “these sets are special and will not be around forever”. And they’re replaced with the standard, permanent starter sets of differing price and contents.
When Age of Darkness dropped, whilst pricey it was such a good discount it was widely assumed it too was a splash release, with permanent Starters to Follow. We of course now know that wasn’t the case.
But on the other hand? Adeptus Titanicus first had the Grandmaster Set, which was super limited. And a new starter set was a longer time coming.
Didn't they say before release that it wasn't limited?
In any case, usually the limited starter sets are extremely good value... the LI starter set is one of the worst value starters.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I'm not sure what any of this discussion has to do with Legions Imperialis, everything is a standard stock item so far, we've not had anything limited.
Stock has been rather limited, but point taken. If it appears on shelves locally its mostly scooped up pretty quick still.
The big civitas box may be limited edition, or it's the first candidate to feel that way. People have been able to get the ruins here and there but those initial big civitas boxes don't seem to be coming back.
The limited stock in this case feels at least partly like a screw up related to the delay. Things restocked quite quickly which maybe suggests stock was manufactured but didn't reach distribution centres in time.
It looks like the starter sets are back in stock in the UK, not even sure if they went out of stock in the US but they are in stock now, a lot of the individual kits seemed to have very low stock levels initially then got a 2nd wave and some of them are out of stock again.
But yeah, maybe that terrain is limited, not sure if we know yet?
I have said in the past that GW are in desirable position having everything sell out all the time, it's a wonderful problem to have... BUT, sometimes it really does feel like they're throwing sales out the window.
chaos0xomega wrote: The release delays and stock shortages are going to strangle LI in its infancy.
Eh, I dunno. I think most people interested in the game will still be so a couple months from now, and those that aren't...still won't and probably wouldn't be even with more stock on the shelves. It feels to me like this game has a very targeted/niche/inelastic audience even for GW. Just my own impression based on zero real data.
And as an AT player, I think LI players should expect some longer gaps with support. AT did it better for getting its main Titans all released within a couple months of launch...but it still was a couple months, during which time people were using older models for Reavers and Warhounds. And then it was maybe an every 6 months schedule? At least before things got even slower. They talked about or hinted at a number of things for AT that still haven't seen the light of day. So those other factions for the game might be a pretty good wait if they even happen.
The niche gamers will probably continue to buy it (the same people probably that have been playing Epic for the past 20 or so years in spite of GW not supporting it) assuming they aren't just 3D printing or buying from 3rd parties still
The worry is more whether it has the ability to work its way into the hearts of a broader audience and become something you see regularly played down at the local club/store versus some guy's basement that you need to be part of an elite group to even know it exists.
After all, the enthusiasts DID buy Aeronautica, but it wasn't enough to keep GW supporting it.
Alternatives are options for the stuff still missing from wave 1.5? (deredeos, leviathans, rapiers, aa) not to mention all the aeronautica planes that have yet to "come back". Still feels like a loooong feb waiting for some pretty key stuff like artillery, even if a suitable stand in for rapiers can be used while waiting. If stuff like the civitas ruins are designed in uk but made in china, really hoping the red sea stuff dies down.
I've not been exhaustive in my comparing of the units in the core book, to what Vanguard offers, but there isn't anything stopping one from getting a copy of the core book and filling out a solid Legions army.
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if that is why GW are keeping the core book direct-only( full price, with no discount ), as many players will probably already have a 3rd party collection ready to roll, and the only money they'll see from them is from the core book and supplements.
Alternatives are options for the stuff still missing from wave 1.5? (deredeos, leviathans, rapiers, aa) not to mention all the aeronautica planes that have yet to "come back". Still feels like a loooong feb waiting for some pretty key stuff like artillery, even if a suitable stand in for rapiers can be used while waiting. If stuff like the civitas ruins are designed in uk but made in china, really hoping the red sea stuff dies down.
I've not been exhaustive in my comparing of the units in the core book, to what Vanguard offers, but there isn't anything stopping one from getting a copy of the core book and filling out a solid Legions army.
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if that is why GW are keeping the core book direct-only( full price, with no discount ), as many players will probably already have a 3rd party collection ready to roll, and the only money they'll see from them is from the core book and supplements.
I'm not sure what direct-only would have to do with that.
And remember that the core book is also available as an e-book at over a third less than what the physical book costs.
After all, the enthusiasts DID buy Aeronautica, but it wasn't enough to keep GW supporting it.
Aeronautica is technically still being supported, as GW are still selling the HH-themed rule book and released a pack of bases not long ago.
If I had to make a guess, Aeronautica will return with a brand new edition leaving Titanicus and Legions as a 30K pairing, and Aeronautica will be the stepping stone to Epic'40K( whenever that game happens ).
SamusDrake wrote: If I had to make a guess, Aeronautica will return with a brand new edition leaving Titanicus and Legions as a 30K pairing, and Aeronautica will be the stepping stone to Epic'40K( whenever that game happens ).
The new Legiones Imperalis Thunderhawk Box also has "Warhammer The Horus Hereey - Aeronautica Imperalis" as a Branding on the backside... which means further support to the HH Version.
People still need to buy big Core Sets with Heavy Rulebooks to get damaged sprues for Core Tanks or build further Armies for other Space Marine Legions...
"Comes later than you think"
"When you think our logistic is out of controll, then your right..."
Of the two boxed set contents I’ve had, none of the Sprues have been damaged, barring one Predator exhaust which was very slightly twisted, but still attached.
I'm not sure what direct-only would have to do with that.
And remember that the core book is also available as an e-book at over a third less than what the physical book costs.
Its a direct sale to GW, cutting out local independents for maximum profit. The only other game with a rule book that GW sells direct-only is for Aeronautica. Thats not to say it's done out of spite for the indies, but probably because they feel there's little gain for them in doing so.
To be fair I'm only making a loose guess at best. Another loose guess might be that its hard to maintain stock levels after a last minute 3-month reprint.
The new Legiones Imperalis Thunderhawk Box also has "Warhammer The Horus Hereey - Aeronautica Imperalis" as a Branding on the backside... which means further support to the HH Version.
Now that is interesting. Is there any additional Aeronautica stuff in the box itself?
Its a direct sale to GW, cutting out local independents for maximum profit. The only other game with a rule book that GW sells direct-only is for Aeronautica. Thats not to say it's done out of spite for the indies, but probably because they feel there's little gain for them in doing so.
Yeah directly-only products are the ones GW believe* won't sell enough to justify a large production batch to supply all the trade customers and GW stores. So they make a smaller batch that's kept to the main distribution hubs only. Probably for the best given the difficulty in getting restocks from other items...
Well, if there’s one thing GW has that nobody else has? Is a complete and perfect knowledge of its sales figures. Which is the joy of being the sole manufacturer and distributors of its own wares.
I guess we can argue whether such figures are accurately interpreted, but they absolutely have the raw data nobody else does.
I'm not sure what direct-only would have to do with that.
And remember that the core book is also available as an e-book at over a third less than what the physical book costs.
Its a direct sale to GW, cutting out local independents for maximum profit. The only other game with a rule book that GW sells direct-only is for Aeronautica. Thats not to say it's done out of spite for the indies, but probably because they feel there's little gain for them in doing so.
To be fair I'm only making a loose guess at best. Another loose guess might be that its hard to maintain stock levels after a last minute 3-month reprint.
That's not quite the full picture. It's not Direct Only – a term GW sometimes uses for items that are available only from Games Workshop themselves. It's Online Only, which means it's not part of the range that their own stores are able to stock. Independent stockists can still order and stock Online Only items (at least in the UK, and I believe most other territories) but they are prohibited under their trade terms from selling at a discount. In effect, they're allowed to provide it for their customers at the online price. Take a look at a large independent like Element Games – they stock pretty much all the Online Only items, and sell them in-store as well.
Well GW do have perfect historical data, but a less clear picture than they probably should of how customers will react to a future release. Plucking a totally hypothetical example from thin air - imagine if they released an updated rulebook for the fictional 40k Nyratid faction, and the Calemeptor monster has significantly stronger stats than any other unit. You would imagine that GW would want to maximise sales by removing the direct-only status from the Calemeptor kit and producing more prior to the codex release. Instead what happens is that people read the leaked rules, that kit sells out all warehouse stock in approximately 0.3 seconds, and remains out of stock until the next balance update corrects it's points level.
I'm sure this scenario may also explain why games like LI were missing things like sufficient solar aux transports on release; GW don't notice the increased demand they just created with new rules.
That's not quite the full picture. It's not Direct Only – a term GW sometimes uses for items that are available only from Games Workshop themselves. It's Online Only, which means it's not part of the range that their own stores are able to stock. Independent stockists can still order and stock Online Only items (at least in the UK, and I believe most other territories) but they are prohibited under their trade terms from selling at a discount. In effect, they're allowed to provide it for their customers at the online price. Take a look at a large independent like Element Games – they stock pretty much all the Online Only items, and sell them in-store as well.
I'm not sure what direct-only would have to do with that.
And remember that the core book is also available as an e-book at over a third less than what the physical book costs.
Its a direct sale to GW, cutting out local independents for maximum profit. The only other game with a rule book that GW sells direct-only is for Aeronautica. Thats not to say it's done out of spite for the indies, but probably because they feel there's little gain for them in doing so.
To be fair I'm only making a loose guess at best. Another loose guess might be that its hard to maintain stock levels after a last minute 3-month reprint.
The new Legiones Imperalis Thunderhawk Box also has "Warhammer The Horus Hereey - Aeronautica Imperalis" as a Branding on the backside... which means further support to the HH Version.
Now that is interesting. Is there any additional Aeronautica stuff in the box itself?
Mine didn't come with an AI base, you'd have to buy that separately. Did AI include unit cards or something like that? Because if so, also absent I'm afraid.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well, if there’s one thing GW has that nobody else has? Is a complete and perfect knowledge of its sales figures. Which is the joy of being the sole manufacturer and distributors of its own wares.
I guess we can argue whether such figures are accurately interpreted, but they absolutely have the raw data nobody else does.
Then we must send a Third-stage Guild Navigator to Nottingham to demand details from the CEO...
My personal thought is that until the rest of Wave 1 starts showing up, there's not much point in releasing the Core Book for mass sale. The two armies each have two boxes with combat units - one infantry, and one super-heavy tanks (the marines also have Rhinos, but they're strictly transports). Of the four boxes, one - the Baneblades - is completely useless without the Core Box, since you can only use Baneblades as part of the Armoured Company formation, which requires two battle tank formations. And the battle tanks are currently only available in the Core Box.
Making it more difficult to get the book without the Core Box encourages players to get the box, which means that they'll have the basic troops and vehicles needed to play the game.
Once the rest of Wave 1 is released (And what's the reason for the delay? It should have been out by now.), hopefully they'll release the book.
Mine didn't come with an AI base, you'd have to buy that separately. Did AI include unit cards or something like that? Because if so, also absent I'm afraid.
I had a box of Thunderbolts a long while ago but it was just instructions and the plastic and bases. Might have been transfers?
Mine didn't come with an AI base, you'd have to buy that separately. Did AI include unit cards or something like that? Because if so, also absent I'm afraid.
I had a box of Thunderbolts a long while ago but it was just instructions and the plastic and bases. Might have been transfers?
Oh sure, forgot about those. There is a -new!- transfer sheet included.
Well since we didn't get anything this week, if the March 2nd rumour is true I also wouldn't expect anything next week as they don't normally do the same system two weeks in a row so lets at least hope for the 17th
Mine didn't come with an AI base, you'd have to buy that separately. Did AI include unit cards or something like that? Because if so, also absent I'm afraid.
I had a box of Thunderbolts a long while ago but it was just instructions and the plastic and bases. Might have been transfers?
When the thunderhawk came out originally, it contained the rules in the box. So it sounds like they’ve removed it for the HH rerelease.
The earlier AI stuff didn’t come with rules in the boxes, but the last wave (SM vs Eldar) did.
Greenfield wrote: That's not quite the full picture. It's not Direct Only – a term GW sometimes uses for items that are available only from Games Workshop themselves. It's Online Only, which means it's not part of the range that their own stores are able to stock.
My Local GW's own Warhammer Store has the Rulebook in Stock...
But I’m hoping the delay is to ensure there’s a better stock level on launch day. A wee bit of stockpiling now, ready for then.
The sort-of-upside-I-guess is that I will have all my existing collection painted by then, as I’m due to finish the Rhinos this lunchtime/evening.
Except they don't use delays to do any extra stockpiling.
People complain how launch day stock ran out despite delay.
Because the delay was just that. Delay. They didn't produce any more beside what they had decided in advance.
GW doesn't even have surpluss production capability to produce more. And most likely now production focus is toward AOS4 launch. Got to produce boxes for then to be sold. They won't hinder that for sake of producing more for LI during delay.
When the thunderhawk came out originally, it contained the rules in the box. So it sounds like they’ve removed it for the HH rerelease.
The earlier AI stuff didn’t come with rules in the boxes, but the last wave (SM vs Eldar) did.
Interesting.
If Aeronautica was listed alongside Legions and Titanicus on the GW site, and there was at least a pack of hexmap posters on sale, I'd have faith that Aeronautica is staying in the Heresy era.
It doesn't make sense to continue visibily supporting Titanicus - which relies on far more components - but not Aeronautica which is currently only missing a single poster map. Thats something they could easily include with a magazine pack like White Dwarf, when it comes in a card envelope.
Oh GW, one day we'll figure you out. But today is not that day...
Except they don't use delays to do any extra stockpiling.
People complain how launch day stock ran out despite delay.
Because the delay was just that. Delay. They didn't produce any more beside what they had decided in advance.
We have no way to know if the Nov release day stock was any higher than it would have been in August, yet still sold out regardless. However the delay could certainly have improved the restocking time.
The core items came back into UK stock relatively quickly after launch, with a small extra wave before xmas then a larger one immediately after new year. USA received new core boxes this month too, implying they were already on the water before the holidays.
That contrasts with many other GW ranges, like some 40k factions that released on time and didn't see restocks for several months.
Except they don't use delays to do any extra stockpiling.
People complain how launch day stock ran out despite delay.
Because the delay was just that. Delay. They didn't produce any more beside what they had decided in advance.
GW doesn't even have surpluss production capability to produce more. And most likely now production focus is toward AOS4 launch. Got to produce boxes for then to be sold. They won't hinder that for sake of producing more for LI during delay.
I'd go with that. AoS is one half of their shops, the other being 40K itself. Both having their own part-magazines with a TV ad, and with TV shows and feature films in the works...
Titans and Knights come with AT Terminals and have the "Adeptus Titanicus The Horus Heresy" Branding on the backside like the Aeronautica Imperalis Branding for Flighters.
RazorEdge wrote: Titans and Knights come with AT Terminals and have the "Adeptus Titanicus The Horus Heresy" Branding on the backside like the Aeronautica Imperalis Branding for Flighters.
Tke Terrain als comes with AT Branding I guess...
Makes one wonder why they've been repackaged under Legions Imperialis...?
When the thunderhawk came out originally, it contained the rules in the box. So it sounds like they’ve removed it for the HH rerelease.
The earlier AI stuff didn’t come with rules in the boxes, but the last wave (SM vs Eldar) did.
Interesting.
If Aeronautica was listed alongside Legions and Titanicus on the GW site, and there was at least a pack of hexmap posters on sale, I'd have faith that Aeronautica is staying in the Heresy era.
It doesn't make sense to continue visibily supporting Titanicus - which relies on far more components - but not Aeronautica which is currently only missing a single poster map. Thats something they could easily include with a magazine pack like White Dwarf, when it comes in a card envelope.
Oh GW, one day we'll figure you out. But today is not that day...
I hadn't even noticed GW didn't have the Aeronautica Imperialis section of the site. I could only find stuff by using the search bar.
So GW currently aren't doing a great job of "supporting" Aeronautica even in the HH setting, they aren't selling a hex board and they don't have a section on their site for it. Also the rulebook is almost impossible to get in Australia. It was out of stock for something like a year, came back in stock but didn't last terribly long and is once again out of stock.
Does the new Thunderhawk box include rules for Aeronautica? Is it part of the assembly instructions?
The new rulebook doesn't list any unit rules aside from the Custodes flyer, so I wonder where they're supposed to come from.
OMG, I was under the impression that the current Aeronautica book had profiles for all Imperial craft. In which case GW needs to sort that game out sharpish.
Does the new Thunderhawk box include rules for Aeronautica? Is it part of the assembly instructions?
The new rulebook doesn't list any unit rules aside from the Custodes flyer, so I wonder where they're supposed to come from.
OMG, I was under the impression that the current Aeronautica book had profiles for all Imperial craft. In which case GW needs to sort that game out sharpish.
The HH Aeronautica book contains all the rules of what you can buy now. So you don't need the rules to be in the box in order to play with the Thunderhawk.
So the HH Aeronautica book contains all the core rules, all the rules for different Legions (nothing special TBH), and the rules for all aircraft that are usable in the HH.
All they need to do is release a bloody hex map and people could actually play the game
BUT, they did include the rules originally with the Thunderhawk, printed on the back page of the instruction manual, and when the Thunderhawk first released it was the only place to get the rules (since the companion and HH book didn't come out until later).
One of the 7 holy mysteries of AT is why GW never produced Corrupted Titan bits.
I wanted to see more Legio transfers sheets and some Legio-specific armor bits, but I understand why they didn't want to add umpteen SKUs to the product line. But Corrupted bits just seem easy and obvious and useable by any Traitor player. They've created plastic sprues for less sensible reasons, but even if they didn't want to go that route they have resin as an option.
Makes me think that the SG team really has been told hands-off on anything that could perceived to be 40K IP.
gorgon wrote: One of the 7 holy mysteries of AT is why GW never produced Corrupted Titan bits.
I wanted to see more Legio transfers sheets and some Legio-specific armor bits, but I understand why they didn't want to add umpteen SKUs to the product line. But Corrupted bits just seem easy and obvious and useable by any Traitor player. They've created plastic sprues for less sensible reasons, but even if they didn't want to go that route they have resin as an option.
Makes me think that the SG team really has been told hands-off on anything that could perceived to be 40K IP.
Especially how they did release a psi-titan but not generally corrupted/posessed bits, it really harkens back to the day when FW was basically a motley collection of individual sculptors' passion projects.
Did order a second box of legion imperialis, its cheaper if you play bouth sides and the only way to get more tanks till now.
Wanted to buy some sm interseptors but could not find them. where do you find those xipion fighters?
SamusDrake wrote: Maybe at Warhammer Fest they'll announce new starters for both AT and AI, or something. Who knows.
I think that AT 2.0 would have a good following, AND would allow GW to re-release the game in a new series of books.
On the other hand, I suspect they have all their writing resources devoted to LI for a while...
And if they really wanted AT 2.0 to do well, they'd move up the timeline a smidge and introduce Orks. They could do a great job with just 4 kits and maybe some resin bits. And they would sell well to existing players and rope in some fans of the faction who are new to the game. I'm sure that some Epic players would buy the kits too. Hint that Eldar are on the way eventually, and you'd have a lot of buzz around the game.
But I'm increasingly of the opinion that the team just isn't allowed now, based on what happened with AI and what LI ended up being. Looks like they have a very small sandbox to play in. Is what it is.
skeleton wrote: Did order a second box of legion imperialis, its cheaper if you play bouth sides and the only way to get more tanks till now.
Wanted to buy some sm interseptors but could not find them. where do you find those xipion fighters?
Vanguard have their own Novan Elites version of the Xipion. Oh, and some indies might have the odd copy of the Marine vs Eldar AI box set in stock...
On the other hand, I suspect they have all their writing resources devoted to LI for a while...
It feels like an eternity since in Defence of Ryza, it was mentioned that there would be a future supplement covering Renegade knight banners. And that was a good three years ago...
Overread wrote: Sometimes I think its because the studio is trapped in internal politics and they are only allowed to work in the very early part of the 30K era.
I’d suspect that that is probably close to the truth…
And if they really wanted AT 2.0 to do well, they'd move up the timeline a smidge and introduce Orks. They could do a great job with just 4 kits and maybe some resin bits.
There's currently whispers about a black library Great Scouring IP to follow on from the HH series. As well as fleshing out some conflicts against now fully-Chaos opponents, it also provides a setting for 30k-era units & characters to be liberating worlds from xenos incursions.
Horus Heresy tabletop content tends to follow closely on from black library events. While realistically it's ~4 years away at best, I think the next logical major step for epic scale would be an AT reboot against plastic gargants & stompas. Then they can evolve that with Ork tanks & infantry in LI at a later date, using the existing flyers.
It feels like an eternity since in Defence of Ryza, it was mentioned that there would be a future supplement covering Renegade knight banners. And that was a good three years ago...
It wasn't long after that WarCom dropped some free download AT mission content. I suspect there was a planned supplement book that got canned due to a combination of post-covid pressure, the decision to produce LI, and perhaps the AT compendium books we got instead.
And if they really wanted AT 2.0 to do well, they'd move up the timeline a smidge and introduce Orks. They could do a great job with just 4 kits and maybe some resin bits.
There's currently whispers about a black library Great Scouring IP to follow on from the HH series. As well as fleshing out some conflicts against now fully-Chaos opponents, it also provides a setting for 30k-era units & characters to be liberating worlds from xenos incursions.
Horus Heresy tabletop content tends to follow closely on from black library events. While realistically it's ~4 years away at best, I think the next logical major step for epic scale would be an AT reboot against plastic gargants & stompas. Then they can evolve that with Ork tanks & infantry in LI at a later date, using the existing flyers.
Ehhh, i've been hearing rumors about Great Scouring for 10 years now, ill believe it when theres something more than idle speculation. I think the source of it was a couple out of context quotes from Alan Bligh where he mentioned the Crusade and/or Scouring in the context of things being more appropriate for those settings (which does not imply that the Horus Heresy would expand into them), as well as a quote which was a response to a Q&A where someone was concerned about them running out of Horus Heresy narrative to explore and the game going stale, to which he responded that there was enough story in the Horus Heresy to keep them developing the game for decades to come, but that if they really did run out of stuff they could alwayscircle b ack to the Great Crusade or move into the Scouring era for additional content and narrative, etc. which isn't a statement of intent so much as a statement of possibility. I believe there was also a statement he made though in response to that (may have been at a separate Q&A after that statement took on a life of its own) in which Alan stated something to the effect of "The game is called The Horus Heresy" to dismiss discussions of other time periods... though if nobody noticed the game is technically now called or subtitled "Age of Darkness", which may allude to broader future intentions.
gorgon wrote: One of the 7 holy mysteries of AT is why GW never produced Corrupted Titan bits.
I wanted to see more Legio transfers sheets and some Legio-specific armor bits, but I understand why they didn't want to add umpteen SKUs to the product line. But Corrupted bits just seem easy and obvious and useable by any Traitor player. They've created plastic sprues for less sensible reasons, but even if they didn't want to go that route they have resin as an option.
Makes me think that the SG team really has been told hands-off on anything that could perceived to be 40K IP.
I'm not fully up on the lore, but I've been led to believe there wasn't a lot of physical corruption until after the Heresy, barring the occasional Daemon Primarch.
It wasn't long after that WarCom dropped some free download AT mission content. I suspect there was a planned supplement book that got canned due to a combination of post-covid pressure, the decision to produce LI, and perhaps the AT compendium books we got instead.
It would seem that way, I suppose.
Glass half-full, I think it helps to treat Legions Imperialis as a companion to Titanicus, just for the time being. Used together with the AT starter set, one can host two minimal maniples; 1 Reaver & 2 Warhounds each, all with different weapons. Or a full 5-titan ventor maniple with a supporting Reaver, which should be approaching a 1750 point force. While the smaller tanks and troops aren't usable in games of Titanicus, they could still be placed on the board for extra detail(troops sitting on buildings) - or possibly used as tokens such as titan hunter infantry...
For the Legions side of things, the two Cerastus Lancers would be more at home than they ever were in AT, and more suitable allies for the two small marine and solar armies in the set, than the warhounds. I can see them keeping the vehicles in check, but vulnerable to being overwhelmed by the troops, while the troops are vulnerable to the vehicles...
Ehhh, i've been hearing rumors about Great Scouring for 10 years now, ill believe it when theres something more than idle speculation. I think the source of it was a couple out of context quotes from Alan Bligh where he mentioned the Crusade and/or Scouring in the context of things being more appropriate for those settings (which does not imply that the Horus Heresy would expand into them), as well as a quote which was a response to a Q&A ..
There's a more recent Valrak rumour claiming this. Combined with the upcoming Black Library day and inevitable preview stream in February, I wonder if we'll get some confirmation sooner rather than later.
chaos0xomega wrote: though if nobody noticed the game is technically now called or subtitled "Age of Darkness", which may allude to broader future intentions.
Very much looking forward to the
Warhammer: Legions Imperialis: Age of Darkness: Great Scouring: Starter set!
I'm not fully up on the lore, but I've been led to believe there wasn't a lot of physical corruption until after the Heresy, barring the occasional Daemon Primarch.
The very first daemon titan was created during the aftermath of Beta Garmon / Titandeath. Then I think the only place they show up after is during the Siege of Terra, which would be a fairly limited setting for a tabletop game as not all factions are commited.
I could see why they'd want to keep possessed titan models for a post-heresy setting.
Overread wrote: Sometimes I think its because the studio is trapped in internal politics and they are only allowed to work in the very early part of the 30K era.
That or the budget for chaos parts got taken and put into making the new tanks and infantry models and left nothing for corrupted titans.
Feel like it's important to bring up the fact that the model designers have 100% of the power in GW. This is something they've stated and restated a thousand times now, what comes out is what the model designers feel like making with no pressure put on them. Examples given include stuff like primarchs, where GW has made public statements that they'll be released when the design team feels like making them.
gorgon wrote: One of the 7 holy mysteries of AT is why GW never produced Corrupted Titan bits.
I wanted to see more Legio transfers sheets and some Legio-specific armor bits, but I understand why they didn't want to add umpteen SKUs to the product line. But Corrupted bits just seem easy and obvious and useable by any Traitor player. They've created plastic sprues for less sensible reasons, but even if they didn't want to go that route they have resin as an option.
Makes me think that the SG team really has been told hands-off on anything that could perceived to be 40K IP.
I'm not fully up on the lore, but I've been led to believe there wasn't a lot of physical corruption until after the Heresy, barring the occasional Daemon Primarch.
No, Banelords definitely became a thing late in the Heresy (Titandeath novel, IIRC), and there were other corrupted Titans at the Siege. Mortis had a bunch of weird zombie Titans they used as cannon fodder, IIRC. Thing is, the AT rules for Corrupted Titans are actually kind of Chaos-lite...they definitely include physical mutations but the result isn't even a Banelord per se. And so (getting this back on topic) an altered Titan is something you could definitely see on an LI battlefield. It just seems like the miniatures are stuck in an early/mid-Heresy period even as the rules aren't.
Also, by the time of the Siege, the WE, DG, EC, etc. were all pretty much their 40K versions. Death Guard were bloated with guts hanging out and Nurglings sitting on them, World Eaters had fully bloodstained armor and had gone completely maniacal, etc.
Overread wrote: Sometimes I think its because the studio is trapped in internal politics and they are only allowed to work in the very early part of the 30K era.
That or the budget for chaos parts got taken and put into making the new tanks and infantry models and left nothing for corrupted titans.
Feel like it's important to bring up the fact that the model designers have 100% of the power in GW. This is something they've stated and restated a thousand times now, what comes out is what the model designers feel like making with no pressure put on them. Examples given include stuff like primarchs, where GW has made public statements that they'll be released when the design team feels like making them.
Eh I don't think its fully true that they have 100% power.
I'm sure that different teams/groups are focused on specific areas which are defined by managers and teams and such. There has to be SOME business side to the structure of GW.
It's that or the Specialist team is comprised only of 30K fans, which would on one hand make for some good games but on the other run the risk of it being very stale in a creative way
Ehhh, i've been hearing rumors about Great Scouring for 10 years now, ill believe it when theres something more than idle speculation. I think the source of it was a couple out of context quotes from Alan Bligh where he mentioned the Crusade and/or Scouring in the context of things being more appropriate for those settings (which does not imply that the Horus Heresy would expand into them), as well as a quote which was a response to a Q&A where someone was concerned about them running out of Horus Heresy narrative to explore and the game going stale, to which he responded that there was enough story in the Horus Heresy to keep them developing the game for decades to come, but that if they really did run out of stuff they could alwayscircle b ack to the Great Crusade or move into the Scouring era for additional content and narrative, etc. which isn't a statement of intent so much as a statement of possibility. I believe there was also a statement he made though in response to that (may have been at a separate Q&A after that statement took on a life of its own) in which Alan stated something to the effect of "The game is called The Horus Heresy" to dismiss discussions of other time periods... though if nobody noticed the game is technically now called or subtitled "Age of Darkness", which may allude to broader future intentions.
Alan bligh has been dead for a veeeeeery long time. Whatever were plans then aren't same as plans now.
In case you haven't noticed BL wrapped up HH. Next book series is just matter of what it's about. Not if there is one.
What guy said over 7 years ago has little bearing on what company plans to do 10+ years from after his passing. He's not driving the game anymore and his word has no more bearing whatsoever.
1 new book does not an entire new company direction make. BL often produces a book for the launch of a major game/release.
Also BL has been slowly releasing Old World books for ages, since End Times happened they've been releasing a lot of chronicle books which basically gather up a LOT of the previous stand alone books and short stories and releasing them as single volumes
And if they really wanted AT 2.0 to do well, they'd move up the timeline a smidge and introduce Orks. They could do a great job with just 4 kits and maybe some resin bits.
There's currently whispers about a black library Great Scouring IP to follow on from the HH series. As well as fleshing out some conflicts against now fully-Chaos opponents, it also provides a setting for 30k-era units & characters to be liberating worlds from xenos incursions.
Horus Heresy tabletop content tends to follow closely on from black library events. While realistically it's ~4 years away at best, I think the next logical major step for epic scale would be an AT reboot against plastic gargants & stompas. Then they can evolve that with Ork tanks & infantry in LI at a later date, using the existing flyers.
They could do Eldar a lot sooner for AT if they did some sort of Stygies VIII campaign. Probably sell like hotcakes as well. I suspect they're prevented from doing it due to internal polictics...
And if they really wanted AT 2.0 to do well, they'd move up the timeline a smidge and introduce Orks. They could do a great job with just 4 kits and maybe some resin bits.
There's currently whispers about a black library Great Scouring IP to follow on from the HH series. As well as fleshing out some conflicts against now fully-Chaos opponents, it also provides a setting for 30k-era units & characters to be liberating worlds from xenos incursions.
Horus Heresy tabletop content tends to follow closely on from black library events. While realistically it's ~4 years away at best, I think the next logical major step for epic scale would be an AT reboot against plastic gargants & stompas. Then they can evolve that with Ork tanks & infantry in LI at a later date, using the existing flyers.
They could do Eldar a lot sooner for AT if they did some sort of Stygies VIII campaign. Probably sell like hotcakes as well. I suspect they're prevented from doing it due to internal polictics...
Eldar are a lot more mechanically complex to fit into AT than Orks would be. And a lot more limited in model range currently.
I wouldn't expect any other factions for Titanicus only anymore. If there are other factions like Orks or Eldar in the future they would also get other Epic scale stuff for a future edition if LI too. And that won't happen until they expanded the current HH enough which means nearly complete SM and SA armies and at a minimum Admech as a third faction
Matrindur wrote: I wouldn't expect any other factions for Titanicus only anymore. If there are other factions like Orks or Eldar in the future they would also get other Epic scale stuff for a future edition if LI too. And that won't happen until they expanded the current HH enough which means nearly complete SM and SA armies and at a minimum Admech as a third faction
I wouldn't hold my breath in hopes of seeing any non HH faction (meaning, non-Imperial) either in the near to medium future... at the very least. How long it's been since AT was released? Well, at the very least that long.
I wouldn't hold my breath in hopes of seeing any non HH faction (meaning, non-Imperial) either in the near to medium future... at the very least. How long it's been since AT was released? Well, at the very least that long.
Thats what I meant, we won't be seeing anything non HH until they are finished with the HH setting which shouldn't happen until SM and SA are fleshed out and we at least get Mechanicus as there are already hints for them in the core book. And I would also expect Custodes since we also have that one flyer for them.
After that they might move on to another setting which includes xenos and that is the earliest I would expect xenos in Titanicus. But I wouldn't even expect that setting to be 40k, more likely to be something like the great crusade or the scouring so they can still use all the models they are currently releasing.
given how slow (comparatively) GW are with their model releases it is, perhaps, better to get fully fleshed out imperial armies rather than a expanding series of half formed xenos armies. what ifs are, of course, always tantalizing. as my local epic group allow more homebrewing than most the release of legions imperialis: the horus heresy has just meant questions about whether we should up scale everything to conform. when you have things like the planetary governor (below) comprising most of your armies upscaling just means having to paint everything again (but in more detail). I do think the new scale was a good idea (as it allows more detailed models and nuanced rules) repainting is going to take up the better part of the next year.
I dont think we see any non-HH content for AT/AI/LI for quite some time. When we do, I would guess its because they are spinning off a 40k version of LI/epic within 3-4 years of it. I would expect they will want to focus on LI for the next 3-5 years minimum before spinning out another game in that scale, if at all.
SamusDrake wrote: The other option on the table would be a return to Warmaster.
I'd love to see GW do Warmaster for AoS or Old World
I don't expect it though. I feel like GW is really hitting a total game limit right now. Heck Battlefleet Gothic I'd expect to come first or a Mordheim style release.
They could do Eldar a lot sooner for AT if they did some sort of Stygies VIII campaign. Probably sell like hotcakes as well. I suspect they're prevented from doing it due to internal polictics...
It's not politics, it's basic commercial planning. As a more niche part of GW's product ranges, a fundamental element making the Heresy tabletop games worthwhile to develop expensive plastic kits for is that they can potentially be sold to all Heresy customers. A marine player can include Solar Auxillia allies their list, a Solar player can bring Mechanicum, and so on. It drives impulse purchasing when a Space Wolves or Death Guard player can both pickup the shiny new Auxllia battlegroup and play games with it immediately. That makes it fairly low risk to invest in plastic kits. The instant they release Ork or Eldar kits, customers need 2000-3000pts of Orks or Eldar to use them and that's a hazardous bet for GW to make.
They could do Eldar a lot sooner for AT if they did some sort of Stygies VIII campaign. Probably sell like hotcakes as well. I suspect they're prevented from doing it due to internal polictics...
It's not politics, it's basic commercial planning. As a more niche part of GW's product ranges, a fundamental element making the Heresy tabletop games worthwhile to develop expensive plastic kits for is that they can potentially be sold to all Heresy customers. A marine player can include Solar Auxillia allies their list, a Solar player can bring Mechanicum, and so on. It drives impulse purchasing when a Space Wolves or Death Guard player can both pickup the shiny new Auxllia battlegroup and play games with it immediately. That makes it fairly low risk to invest in plastic kits. The instant they release Ork or Eldar kits, customers need 2000-3000pts of Orks or Eldar to use them and that's a hazardous bet for GW to make.
You were responding to a comment about AT though. And the point is that AT doesn't have to be a HH product, and it wouldn't take moving heaven and earth to accomplish it. They could introduce entire factions with about 4 kits -- only 1 of which would need to be on the larger side. That isn't a colossal investment for GW anymore...just look around the webstore at all the kits for things that you'll probably never actually see in the wild. And I'm fairly certain a new faction would sell well and bring in new customers to the game who are fans of that faction. What's more, it'd lay groundwork for a proper Epic game, which LI is not.
Maybe the SG team thinks selling more and more same-y gak to the same tiny group of Heresy heads is their optimal business plan. Seems a little hard to believe though, and I think it's more likely that GW is only giving that team a sliver of the overall IP to work with. Which is itself a valid business plan for the overall enterprise...it's just going to hold back some of these product lines.
I was mainly responding to the last bit about "internal politics".
As I said earlier in the thread, if epic scale xenos do I happen I think it will be via AT first. However before that I believe their plan is to spend a few years growing the Epic community by getting more players able to put together armies & game tables, using a cross-compatible model range like LI. Only if that's proven to be a success will GW risk selling independent model ranges like orks or eldar.
I'd love to see GW do Warmaster for AoS or Old World
I don't expect it though. I feel like GW is really hitting a total game limit right now. Heck Battlefleet Gothic I'd expect to come first or a Mordheim style release.
The TOW era would make more sense, although Warmaster would depend greatly on the successes of both LI and TOW before being greenlit.
at one point I would have agreed we were not going to get Xenos in epic scale but seeing how popular these "legacy" games are I am not so sure now, I personally think it is a certainty that we will get Epic scale Xenos and likely sooner than we think, I reckon 3-5 years and we will start getting them.
I also reckon BFG is this year, probably Christmas release.
I'd love to see GW do Warmaster for AoS or Old World
I don't expect it though. I feel like GW is really hitting a total game limit right now. Heck Battlefleet Gothic I'd expect to come first or a Mordheim style release.
The TOW era would make more sense, although Warmaster would depend greatly on the successes of both LI and TOW before being greenlit.
You can argue Warmaster scale for either Old World or AoS - it works great in both.
In both cases it allows you to have much bigger battles in terms of the volume of apparent models; plus in both it allows you to put larger monsters and constructs down - heck if anything AoS would be much like 40K in that it would allow the use of things that feature in the lore, but which are too big to feature or be practical in AoS itself. Godbeasts, floating islands and more.
You can argue Warmaster scale for either Old World or AoS - it works great in both.
In both cases it allows you to have much bigger battles in terms of the volume of apparent models; plus in both it allows you to put larger monsters and constructs down - heck if anything AoS would be much like 40K in that it would allow the use of things that feature in the lore, but which are too big to feature or be practical in AoS itself. Godbeasts, floating islands and more.
I was thinking about how fewer factions TOW would have to support, compared to AOS. They have culled quite a few that were in WHFB, making for a similar situation to Horus Heresy where Xenos and full-on Chaos are not present.
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chaos0xomega wrote: Yeah I'd rather warmaster for AoS on that basis... but Man O War for TOW
Very unlikey at this time, but Man-O-War would be supremely cool.
Formosa wrote: I also reckon BFG is this year, probably Christmas release.
If they did release a BSG-style game, I suspect that it too would be Heresy-era, and probably need a new title. How much of the Heresy took place in the Gothic sector?
Formosa wrote: at one point I would have agreed we were not going to get Xenos in epic scale but seeing how popular these "legacy" games are I am not so sure now, I personally think it is a certainty that we will get Epic scale Xenos and likely sooner than we think, I reckon 3-5 years and we will start getting them.
I also reckon BFG is this year, probably Christmas release.
One way which I champion is to focus an expansion on historical eras/wars.
So, let’s say Orks are first up? Go with Ullanor. Yes they’ll have some stuff rarely if ever seen in the modern era. But, erm, Boyz will be Boyz, and a Trukk is a Trukk is a Trukk.
Once the Orks are out?
Get the Guard involved and modernise Marines with….the second war for Armageddon. Maybe the third.
You want Eldar and Tyranids? Fall of Iyanden.
Basically find a narrative hook, and provide models around that hook for general purpose gaming. Step by step expanding Epic’s offerings. Ideally making all the armies valid matches for each other.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: One way which I champion is to focus an expansion on historical eras/wars.
So, let’s say Orks are first up? Go with Ullanor. Yes they’ll have some stuff rarely if ever seen in the modern era. But, erm, Boyz will be Boyz, and a Trukk is a Trukk is a Trukk.
Once the Orks are out?
Get the Guard involved and modernise Marines with….the second war for Armageddon. Maybe the third.
You want Eldar and Tyranids? Fall of Iyanden.
Basically find a narrative hook, and provide models around that hook for general purpose gaming. Step by step expanding Epic’s offerings. Ideally making all the armies valid matches for each other.
This is the approach GW used for Epic: Armageddon, with limited success – but in fairness that was a different time, and some odd initial choices (sub-lists like Feral Orks and Baran Siegemasters joining the Eldar instead of, say, Chaos).
The principle's a very good one, and I'd like to see it pursued.
While I'd love to see Orks, Eldar and the like pop up in the new Epic, I think the next two–three years of Epic releases will be following the Adeptus Titanicus route of hardback book bit-parting out the basic army list. :s
even if I don't buy in to 
