Alpharius wrote: Weird that the Chaos Gods wouldn't have done this on their own already.
Is the 5th Chaos God...Lord Malchapterhouse?!?
It took the Chaos gods a Tea-time in the warp, that's 10,000 years for us, to create them! Pah they even time-travelled back to beat Guilliman in court before he could claim 'Like everyone else I do this breeding and crusade-ry thing mostly for collecting more Space Marines not warfare, mind you'
*They are Primaris Sized (not Primaris themselves)
*Possible geneseed messed with in the warp to make super chaos marines, to counter Primaris and have a fluff excuse to make larger marines.
I think what will be the most interesting to see is if Chaos Marines are all uniformly upgraded to Warp-hulk status in the rules, or if there will be a demarcation between them and the existing lines (that won't be expanded upon, but still supported). Fluffwise, it might not make much sense for there to be these guys and smaller marines who have all been sitting around in the Warp for 10k years. Unless the biggerfication is some recent phenomenon.
I think it's hilarious that people are going crazy over new sizes... The Chaos Marines in Dark Vengeance were already bigger than regular marine, I myself have sized them and sent pictures to people. And the new 1k Sons are bigger as well, and not because of their head gear.
Who's going crazy? I'm legitimately curious how they plan to handle the switch-over, which is neither positive nor negative. Unless this thread is supposed to just be gobs of praise without any other discussion?
People need to calm down about new models and scales. It's like this has never happened in the history of the game. Well lads, let me tell you a story about a grizzled gamer who's had entire armies of eldar and marines completely replaced by new figs. This same grizzled gamer also had a significantly sized squat army that just went *poof* into the warp. It's not a new thing, and it's not the end of the world. The chicken little thing amuses me though, so there's that.
Personally, I think anyone who's a fan of marines should be pleased to have cool new figs. Replacing current armies is an aesthetic choice - no one's forcing anyone's hand or holding guns to heads. Buy 'em if you think they're cool, or not. Whatevs, it's all good.
Charax wrote: The original concept for Death Guard was Mk3 armour with a Mk2 "mono-eye" helm to emulate Nurgle's daemons
So I'm going with Mk3 armour with Mk2 helm
About the size: surely the chaos gods have always used the warp to enhance their favourite followers. If anything this has been underplayed in the model range. If they can turn ordinary humans into hulking super humans in AoS, then I don't see why they couldn't turn already super humans into even bigger super duper humans in 40k. Now we have a contrast; imperial marines are now a new and improved model whilst the chaos marines are the old model unnaturally souped up.
One of the things I hope GW does with the updated Marine lines is create a greater dichotomy between Chaos and Loyalists forces. Seeing Chaos mainly clad in the armor of their time period (MkII-IV) versus the more modern Mk X Loyalists would help separate the themes of the armies to a nice extent.
About the size: surely the chaos gods have always used the warp to enhance their favourite followers. If anything this has been underplayed in the model range. If they can turn ordinary humans into hulking super humans in AoS, then I don't see why they couldn't turn already super humans into even bigger super duper humans in 40k. Now we have a contrast; imperial marines are now a new and improved model whilst the chaos marines are the old model unnaturally souped up.
Yes, I do like this concept, though effectively we already had that before
Warhams-77 wrote: Thanks, Rippy, for getting in contact with him and posting it here.
What does his last reply mean? For us non-native speakers could you guys explain his hint, please. No problem if that turns out to be a misinterpretation later, but it would help to understand what he is saying. Thank you
I have asked for a clarification, but basically what he said was:
* This Death Guard is a Plague Marine, and will be in starter set
* This Miniature was also a Primaris Marine
* Chaos gods hasn't changed this marine at all, due to fluff/lore changes
I think you are misinterpreting them. This is my takeaway:
Q: So are these plague marines or something different? A: plague marines.
Q: Also are they all that super size? A: same scale as custodes.
Q: Any fluff reason for upscale? A (referring to primaris): super duper marines and Guilliman orderns them.
Q: Oh so these are Primaris that turned to Death Guard? A: ..no, chaos gods changed them.
Q: Are these in starter set? A: starter set.
Warhams-77 wrote: Thanks, Rippy, for getting in contact with him and posting it here.
What does his last reply mean? For us non-native speakers could you guys explain his hint, please. No problem if that turns out to be a misinterpretation later, but it would help to understand what he is saying. Thank you
I have asked for a clarification, but basically what he said was:
* This Death Guard is a Plague Marine, and will be in starter set
* This Miniature was also a Primaris Marine
* Chaos gods hasn't changed this marine at all, due to fluff/lore changes
I think you are misinterpreting them. This is my takeaway:
Q: So are these plague marines or something different? A: plague marines.
Q: Also are they all that super size? A: same scale as custodes.
Q: Any fluff reason for upscale? A (referring to primaris): super duper marines and Guilliman orderns them.
Q: Oh so these are Primaris that turned to Death Guard? A: ..no chaos gods changed them.
Q: Are these in starter set? A: starter set.
Hmm good point, should be a comma between the no and chaos.
Has anyone figured out exactly how many faction keywords work?
For example: Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel Primaris Marine Imperial, Primaris, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel Rhino Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel Grey Knight Imperial, Inquisition, Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knight
Does this mean you cannot have: Primaris Marine Imperial, Primaris, Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knight
because Primaris and Inquisition is exclusive? Grey knights could have: Rhino Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knight
But when building your army you cannot do Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Dark Angel
But when building your army you cannot do
Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel
Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Dark Angel
You might be able to, but it might not be Battleforged.
But when building your army you cannot do
Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel
Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Dark Angel
You might be able to, but it might not be Battleforged.
All armies have to be Battleforged for competitive play (points system)
But when building your army you cannot do
Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel
Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Dark Angel
You might be able to, but it might not be Battleforged.
All armies have to be Battleforged for competitive play (points system)
Yeah but not necessarily for open or narrative, no?
Open play only has the rule of if your opponent and you want to put it on the table do so. So, that isn't really army building.
Narrative play, you are telling a story that could be anything. Someone could make up a story why Sly Marbo and a Carnifax are taking on an entire T'au army.
Youn wrote: Has anyone figured out exactly how many faction keywords work?
For example:
Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel
Primaris Marine Imperial, Primaris, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel
Rhino Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel
Grey Knight Imperial, Inquisition, Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knight
Does this mean you cannot have:
Primaris Marine Imperial, Primaris, Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knight
because Primaris and Inquisition is exclusive?
Grey knights could have:
Rhino Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knight
But when building your army you cannot do
Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel
Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Dark Angel
You're assuming that all keywords must match, but that's not necessarily the case. They could all be in the same FoC if you only need 1 keyword to match, i.e. "Imperial". Ofc there'll be very little synergy between units as most buffs will be based off the chapter equivalent keywords, and you'd not be taking advantage of any future bonuses from a future FoC limited to say Blood Angels, but it still works.
If only SOME marines have been increased in size, then fine. I guess its their way of slowly moving to that size tho. I imagine in a couple of more editions, ALL the marines will be bigger.
Which, was causing me a problem relating to the Space Marine vehicles. Not that everything is true scale, but it will be odd if the Marines on foot are significantly bigger than the models in the Land Speeder for example. I assume that if GW goes down this path, all those Space Marine models will need updating.
Which will make sense. Some of these models have been around for a long long time. They still look great, but GW will prob want another reason to release a new Land Raider mk IV or Rhino mk III...
What are people basing this speculation on? Has there been an army building article that referenced the keywords in this way?
Aren't the keywords in Age of Sigmar mostly for knowing which effects apply to which models? You need to know a model is Stormcast Eternal so it can be healed by a Relictor, etc.
Bull0 wrote: What are people basing this speculation on? Has there been an army building article that referenced the keywords in this way?
Aren't the keywords in Age of Sigmar mostly for knowing which effects apply to which models? You need to know a model is Stormcast Eternal so it can be healed by a Relictor, etc.
We have seen the FOC for 3 of the charts. They all have the following statement on them: Restriction: All units must be from the same faction. We have also seen some of the various dataslates. And their Faction Keywords and Keywords.
So, the question comes in does all faction keywords have to match or does only one faction keyword in the batch have to match.
I'd assume that only one keyword has to match, but you'd lose any faction special rules that you'd get if you mix them up, so you wouldn't get to use the Ultramarines rules if you build on Adeptus Astartes, and you won't get the Imperial Guard rules if you build on Imperium.
Bull0 wrote: What are people basing this speculation on? Has there been an army building article that referenced the keywords in this way?
Aren't the keywords in Age of Sigmar mostly for knowing which effects apply to which models? You need to know a model is Stormcast Eternal so it can be healed by a Relictor, etc.
We have seen the FOC for 3 of the charts. They all have the following statement on them: Restriction: All units must be from the same faction. We have also seen some of the various dataslates. And their Faction Keywords and Keywords.
So, the question comes in does all faction keywords have to match or does only one faction keyword in the batch have to match.
That obviously references the macro faction e.g. Imperial
Bull0 wrote: What are people basing this speculation on? Has there been an army building article that referenced the keywords in this way?
Aren't the keywords in Age of Sigmar mostly for knowing which effects apply to which models? You need to know a model is Stormcast Eternal so it can be healed by a Relictor, etc.
We have seen the FOC for 3 of the charts. They all have the following statement on them: Restriction: All units must be from the same faction. We have also seen some of the various dataslates. And their Faction Keywords and Keywords.
So, the question comes in does all keywords have to match or does only one keyword in the batch have to match.
No, they covered it somewhere IIRC. I.e. you can fill a FOC with units from faction Imperium without problems. But to have synergies between units, more keyords must match, so a Commissar has no effect on Astartes morale.
Bull0 wrote: What are people basing this speculation on? Has there been an army building article that referenced the keywords in this way?
Aren't the keywords in Age of Sigmar mostly for knowing which effects apply to which models? You need to know a model is Stormcast Eternal so it can be healed by a Relictor, etc.
We have seen the FOC for 3 of the charts. They all have the following statement on them: Restriction: All units must be from the same faction. We have also seen some of the various dataslates. And their Faction Keywords and Keywords.
So, the question comes in does all faction keywords have to match or does only one faction keyword in the batch have to match.
For those everyone has to have imperium, chaos, etc. All units need to have a common keyword.
Later we will see ones that require thousand sons. So no other chaos without that keyword.
MasterSlowPoke wrote: I'd assume that only one keyword has to match, but you'd lose any faction special rules that you'd get if you mix them up, so you wouldn't get to use the Ultramarines rules if you build on Adeptus Astartes, and you won't get the Imperial Guard rules if you build on Imperium.
This doesn't make sense, because when would you have two units that are both Adeptus Astartes but aren't both Imperium?
Imperium will be the faction that has to match, the other keywords will be used in describing effects (e.g. only Imperial Guard units can be the target of imperial guard orders, only Ultramarines get the benefit of Marneus Calgar's chapter tactics, etc).
Has anyone figured out exactly how many faction keywords work?
For example:
Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel
Primaris Marine Imperial, Primaris, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel
Rhino Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel
Grey Knight Imperial, Inquisition, Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knight
Does this mean you cannot have:
Primaris Marine Imperial, Primaris, Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knight
because Primaris and Inquisition is exclusive?
Grey knights could have:
Rhino Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Grey Knight
But when building your army you cannot do
Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Blood Angel
Tactical marine Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Dark Angel
My guessterpritation is that all models in the detachment must share at least 1 faction keyword. The more restrictive you make it, the more bonuses from units will synergize, and there may possibly be unique bonuses for only using one more restricted faction.
For example, you could have an Imperial detachment, that contains an Inquisitor, a Dark Angels Chaplain, 2 units of Black Templar Tacticals, and a couple of Imperial Guard Leman Russ's. But you probably won't get any additional benefit aside from the units themselves. Maybe the Chaplain gives a bonus to other Astartes, so the Templars get something if they're close to him.
You could restrict yourself to just Imperial Guard. Now your leader's bonuses will work regardless of who's near them, and will help more units. You may also get access to certain orders that you only get if your army is all Imperial Guard.
You could restrict yourself even further to a Cadian army. Now you get the same benefits as above, but maybe there are some unique orders you can use now, or some characters that you can only take in a pure Cadian army.
I could also see some units that can't be in the same army as each other. Maybe Logan Grimnar is Imperial, Adeptus Astartes, Space Wolves, but you can't use him in the same detachment as a unit with the Inquisition faction.
As for benefits specific to restricted detachments, I could see something like an all Ultramarines detachment getting +1 CP, or Iyanden getting some Wraith bonus, or all Death Guard getting Plague Marines as troops.
KTG17 wrote: If only SOME marines have been increased in size, then fine. I guess its their way of slowly moving to that size tho. I imagine in a couple of more editions, ALL the marines will be bigger.
Which, was causing me a problem relating to the Space Marine vehicles. Not that everything is true scale, but it will be odd if the Marines on foot are significantly bigger than the models in the Land Speeder for example. I assume that if GW goes down this path, all those Space Marine models will need updating.
Welcome to the world of Orks and their Gorkamorka-era Buggies.
RiTides wrote: Thanks Rippy! I edited my post above due to the nested spoiler tag messing up the quote tags. Really appreciate you keeping this up to date
No worries mate!! Can you check out the pic now pls?
Yes, for those following the scheduling, it seems main article drops at 3PM BST, faction focuses are every other day at around 5-5.30PM. Also, they've been late the past few days with the main update, so they might have moved it to 3.30PM I guess?
So I reread the Primaris FAQ this morning, and it stated this:
"I have an <insert favourite Chapter> army. Can I field Primaris Space Marines?
Any of the galaxy’s many hundreds of Codex Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines, along with many of the less Codex-compliant ones like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves."
If the Blood Angels are on the other side of that Warp Rift from Terra/Mars, how are they going to get Primaris reinforcements?
Bull0 wrote: What are people basing this speculation on? Has there been an army building article that referenced the keywords in this way?
Aren't the keywords in Age of Sigmar mostly for knowing which effects apply to which models? You need to know a model is Stormcast Eternal so it can be healed by a Relictor, etc.
We have seen the FOC for 3 of the charts. They all have the following statement on them: Restriction: All units must be from the same faction. We have also seen some of the various dataslates. And their Faction Keywords and Keywords.
So, the question comes in does all faction keywords have to match or does only one faction keyword in the batch have to match.
For those everyone has to have imperium, chaos, etc. All units need to have a common keyword.
Later we will see ones that require thousand sons. So no other chaos without that keyword.
Agreed. I reckon the FoC's in the rulebook will be generic and only provide CP's, and only need the most loose of keyword to use (i.e. "Imperium"). This is to baseline everyone and allow any model/army in the game to continue to be used at the minimum battleforged level.
But in future codex (and maybe in the initial 5 books) there'll be much more restrictive ones, but with additional benefits. Example being a FoC restricted to "Blood Angel" only keyword, with maybe double the CP's and a "Space Vampire" Special rule. So you're free to use the original FoC's with maximum flexibility, or restrict yourself down to a more precise keyword, but gain some advantages in doing so.
I just hope they don't start giving away dozens of free Rhino's again....
flakpanzer wrote: So I reread the Primaris FAQ this morning, and it stated this:
"I have an <insert favourite Chapter> army. Can I field Primaris Space Marines?
Any of the galaxy’s many hundreds of Codex Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines, along with many of the less Codex-compliant ones like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves."
If the Blood Angels are on the other side of that Warp Rift from Terra/Mars, how are they going to get Primaris reinforcements?
The sensible answer is there's nothing stopping you from flying over the cicatrix maladictum, given that space is 3D.
There'll be some sillier answer that doesn't take that into account though, don't worry.
flakpanzer wrote: So I reread the Primaris FAQ this morning, and it stated this:
"I have an <insert favourite Chapter> army. Can I field Primaris Space Marines?
Any of the galaxy’s many hundreds of Codex Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines, along with many of the less Codex-compliant ones like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves."
If the Blood Angels are on the other side of that Warp Rift from Terra/Mars, how are they going to get Primaris reinforcements?
The sensible answer is there's nothing stopping you from flying over the cicatrix maladictum, given that space is 3D.
There'll be some sillier answer that doesn't take that into account though, don't worry.
Yeah, this idea of a gulf across the galaxy that cuts the imperium in two annoys me for precisely that reason. It's easy to explain away with sci fi bs though.
Man i wish they would give us a heads up if they aren't doing an article, hard to focus at work with the constant page refreshing.
Although it really is telling that we have all become so used to the daily updates of spoilers that we are waiting with baited breath. They really do have us on their hook, not to long ago they were 0 spoilers and we had to scour the web for any hint, no matter how ridiculous it sounds.
So according to the OP (don't know when it was posted), the plague marines will be supersized pretty much negating the size aspect of the numarines instantly. With how everything (from supernatural soldiers to orks and quasi-normal humans) got a bump up in size to 35mm+ superscale in AOS, I'm not surprised.
flakpanzer wrote: So I reread the Primaris FAQ this morning, and it stated this:
"I have an <insert favourite Chapter> army. Can I field Primaris Space Marines?
Any of the galaxy’s many hundreds of Codex Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines, along with many of the less Codex-compliant ones like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves."
If the Blood Angels are on the other side of that Warp Rift from Terra/Mars, how are they going to get Primaris reinforcements?
The universe is not 2 dimensional. you can in fact fly/travel in any direction you choose.
flakpanzer wrote: So I reread the Primaris FAQ this morning, and it stated this:
"I have an <insert favourite Chapter> army. Can I field Primaris Space Marines?
Any of the galaxy’s many hundreds of Codex Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines, along with many of the less Codex-compliant ones like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves."
If the Blood Angels are on the other side of that Warp Rift from Terra/Mars, how are they going to get Primaris reinforcements?
The universe is not 2 dimensional. you can in fact fly/travel in any direction you choose.
One assumes it's dimensions are equally large in all 3 dimensions and therefore just as hard to go over or under as it is to go around.
Additionally, Warpspace being a made up medium of travel offers the explanation that any warp travel that would result in you moving from one side of the rift to the other is subject to extreme warp instabilities, regardless of how the jump is plotted. This offers a reasonable fluff explanation for it.
Those larger marines and Death Guard look fantastic (to a newbie to 40k and recent Sigmar player). I always thought the old marines looked goofy; these ones remind me of the Stormcast Eternals, which is a good thing.
From the FAQ, it does seem like they're going to slowly retire the old versions in favor of the true-scale based on what they -didn't- say. GW could have emphasized their being a limited number of super marines, but instead they focused on how they can be used by anyone. I don't have any past armies so I can't blame them. Nothing like a good product refresh...
flakpanzer wrote: So I reread the Primaris FAQ this morning, and it stated this:
"I have an <insert favourite Chapter> army. Can I field Primaris Space Marines?
Any of the galaxy’s many hundreds of Codex Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines, along with many of the less Codex-compliant ones like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves."
If the Blood Angels are on the other side of that Warp Rift from Terra/Mars, how are they going to get Primaris reinforcements?
The Blood Angels 1st and 2nd Companies were sent to reinforce Cadia. And the third is still somewhere around Armageddon.
The universe is not 2 dimensional. you can in fact fly/travel in any direction you choose.
Travel in the 40k universe is done in a couple of ways.
Enter a webway and come out at another planet
Enter a space gate (wormhole) and come out at another gate
Enter the warp and find your way to the other side. (this is how ships normally do it)
The third method does cause a bit of an issue, because navigators tell were they are going by looking for the glowing beacon at the center of their universe. That beacon is the emperor. So, being unable to see him, could be an issue.
Felt like a filler article today, but maybe we'll get something good later.
I've been pretty happy with the way they've been releasing things. It gives me a reason to get up a little early and have an extra cup of coffee in the morning. I mean, of course I want to know everything right away, but I can understand why they're dripping things out like this.
"Thus began many new legends as Guilliman travelled to aid beleaguered planets, breaking sieges and sweeping away invaders to bring hope back to the desperate defenders. It was not long before word began to spread, as all those planets that could receive astropathic messages hailed the return of a hero out of myth. Once more, one of the demigods of the past fought for the Imperium of Mankind.”
It's... Glorious! We finally have Sigm- I mean RG, a Demigod that leads an amazing reforged army of Stormc- I mean purposefully built superior Primaris Space Marines, taken from various Stormho- I mean Chapters to reclaim the Lost Rea- I mean the Galaxy.
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: Felt like a filler article today, but maybe we'll get something good later.
I've been pretty happy with the way they've been releasing things. It gives me a reason to get up a little early and have an extra cup of coffee in the morning. I mean, of course I want to know everything right away, but I can understand why they're dripping things out like this.
Thats probably it for today. Faction focus is every other day. Yesterday was an anomaly. Nothing else unless they reveal another primaris unit.
Tomorrow will be fun though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Blood Angels being squatted confirmed.
Teleporting and reserves, specifically how they work and whether you can assault from them, is the biggest set of questions I still have about 8e (well, that and Necron rules). I'm not expecting to get and answer to the assault thing though. Still, deep striking is a big issue to tackle without scatter dice, and reserves have been the bane of many games since they existed; let's see if they get any better.
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: Felt like a filler article today, but maybe we'll get something good later.
I've been pretty happy with the way they've been releasing things. It gives me a reason to get up a little early and have an extra cup of coffee in the morning. I mean, of course I want to know everything right away, but I can understand why they're dripping things out like this.
Thats probably it for today. Faction focus is every other day. Yesterday was an anomaly. Nothing else unless they reveal another primaris unit.
Tomorrow will be fun though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Blood Angels being squatted confirmed.
/s
Sanquinus back from the dead in their hour of need, confirmed.
Eyjio wrote: Teleporting and reserves, specifically how they work and whether you can assault from them, is the biggest set of questions I still have about 8e (well, that and Necron rules). I'm not expecting to get and answer to the assault thing though. Still, deep striking is a big issue to tackle without scatter dice, and reserves have been the bane of many games since they existed; let's see if they get any better.
roll a d6. On a one they cannot move/shoot/use abilities, 2-5 they can't move but may shoot, 6+ they can move shoot and kick Xenos behind
Future War Cultist wrote: Or the blood angels get reinvented as a real force of vampiric angel warriors as the black rage and red thirst move on to the next stage.
Future War Cultist wrote: Or the blood angels get reinvented as a real force of vampiric angel warriors as the black rage and red thirst move on to the next stage.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Sigh...it's not like we needed reminding that the Blood Angels are screwed, both in fluff and in game.
They're just getting backed into a corner wardian style to hype up some new unit they'll probably get to save the day.
Pretty much. "Will they or won't they survive?" "Oh look, they're triumphant! But not because they are awesome, but because Guiliman sent the Primaris Marines to save them."
casvalremdeikun wrote: Sigh...it's not like we needed reminding that the Blood Angels are screwed, both in fluff and in game.
They're just getting backed into a corner wardian style to hype up some new unit they'll probably get to save the day.
Pretty much. "Will they or won't they survive?" "Oh look, they're triumphant! But not because they are awesome, but because Guiliman sent the Primaris Marines to save them."
Awesome, more incompatible fluff from writers unfamiliar with the backstory of the original great crusade. A dozen whole chapters? Wow 12000 marines are going to bring freedom to the Galaxy.
The great crusade had over 2 MILLION space marines with 18 primarch + The Emperor and countless imperial Navy and army troops that took over 200 years.
Guilliman himself led 250,000 marines and yet now using 5% of that is some kind of grand plan?
Science fiction doesn't require realism but it does require internal consistently in it's fluff or the whole thing falls apart. Every day it feels like they just want 40k to be a comic book with their version of the Avengers.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Sigh...it's not like we needed reminding that the Blood Angels are screwed, both in fluff and in game.
They're just getting backed into a corner wardian style to hype up some new unit they'll probably get to save the day.
Pretty much. "Will they or won't they survive?" "Oh look, they're triumphant! But not because they are awesome, but because Guiliman sent the Primaris Marines to save them."
But they go 3x faster cause they're red at least.
Why the hell do you think I like them?*
*For those unaware, my user name is the actual name of Char Aznable, the originator of the Red is 3x Faster meme.
Kirasu wrote: Awesome, more incompatible fluff from writers unfamiliar with the backstory of the original great crusade. A dozen whole chapters? Wow 12000 marines are going to bring freedom to the Galaxy.
The great crusade had over 2 MILLION space marines with 18 primarch + The Emperor and countless imperial Navy and army troops that took over 200 years.
Guilliman himself led 250,000 marines and yet now using 5% of that is some kind of grand plan? Ugh.
It's not as if there is a large reserve of Space Marines. The galaxy went to hell, Guilliman is doing with what he has, and he doesn't have 2 million Space Marines.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Sigh...it's not like we needed reminding that the Blood Angels are screwed, both in fluff and in game.
They're just getting backed into a corner wardian style to hype up some new unit they'll probably get to save the day.
Pretty much. "Will they or won't they survive?" "Oh look, they're triumphant! But not because they are awesome, but because Guiliman sent the Primaris Marines to save them."
But they go 3x faster cause they're red at least.
Why the hell do you think I like them?*
*For those unaware, my user name is the actual name of Char Aznable, the originator of the Red is 3x Faster meme.
Honestly the reason I responded, then I had to figure out a post. But yeh, Baal should try to gain independence to become the core of the dark Imperium at the same time; being the furthest major colony and now isolated. Would make an interesting possible second civil war that I'm sure will lead to many dreadnought advancements.
Kirasu wrote: Awesome, more incompatible fluff from writers unfamiliar with the backstory of the original great crusade. A dozen whole chapters? Wow 12000 marines are going to bring freedom to the Galaxy.
The great crusade had over 2 MILLION space marines with 18 primarch + The Emperor and countless imperial Navy and army troops that took over 200 years.
Guilliman himself led 250,000 marines and yet now using 5% of that is some kind of grand plan?
Science fiction doesn't require realism but it does require internal consistently in it's fluff or the whole thing falls apart. Every day it feels like they just want 40k to be a comic book with their version of the Avengers.
I love the image of Guilliman walking in and saying "I need two million marines to save the imperirum" and getting "I can get you 12,000" from Cawl.
Kirasu wrote: Awesome, more incompatible fluff from writers unfamiliar with the backstory of the original great crusade. A dozen whole chapters? Wow 12000 marines are going to bring freedom to the Galaxy.
The great crusade had over 2 MILLION space marines with 18 primarch + The Emperor and countless imperial Navy and army troops that took over 200 years.
Guilliman himself led 250,000 marines and yet now using 5% of that is some kind of grand plan?
Science fiction doesn't require realism but it does require internal consistently in it's fluff or the whole thing falls apart. Every day it feels like they just want 40k to be a comic book with their version of the Avengers.
I love the image of Guilliman walking in and saying "I need two million marines to save the imperirum" and getting "I can get you 12,000" from Cawl.
Kirasu wrote: Awesome, more incompatible fluff from writers unfamiliar with the backstory of the original great crusade. A dozen whole chapters? Wow 12000 marines are going to bring freedom to the Galaxy.
The great crusade had over 2 MILLION space marines with 18 primarch + The Emperor and countless imperial Navy and army troops that took over 200 years.
Guilliman himself led 250,000 marines and yet now using 5% of that is some kind of grand plan? Ugh.
It's not as if there is a large reserve of Space Marines. The galaxy went to hell, Guilliman is doing with what he has, and he doesn't have 2 million Space Marines.
Huh? Games workshop invented this absurd fluff with guilliman and cawl. They could have certainly made it more believable. He has exactly how many marines the gw writer puts on the paper...
The point, which was missed, is that there is no way in hell that guilliman should be able to accomplish the same task with LESS than 1% the troops. Hence internal consistency
12000 ADDITIONAL troops, and all the regiments of the IG, and all of the existing space marine chapters, and all of the sisters detachments, and all of the inquisition resources, so on and so forth.
flakpanzer wrote:So I reread the Primaris FAQ this morning, and it stated this:
"I have an <insert favourite Chapter> army. Can I field Primaris Space Marines?
Any of the galaxy’s many hundreds of Codex Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines, along with many of the less Codex-compliant ones like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves."
If the Blood Angels are on the other side of that Warp Rift from Terra/Mars, how are they going to get Primaris reinforcements?
Exactly!
To me, it's clear as day that GW intends on phasing out the Space Marines line in favor of the new hotness; Primaris Space Marines. All we have to do is read between the lines; look past their carefully crafted words. It's all right there in the FAQ.
...you’ve seen the Intercessors, ..., but there are plenty more on the way. And ...vehicles too ...some Chapters, ..., now have entire companies of these new warriors. Others have incorporated squads of Primaris Space Marines into existing Battle Companies. ...entirely new Chapters out of these new Space Marines. Any ... Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines...
I believe it's foolish to assume that GW intends on continuing with the existing Space Marines line. I fully believe that we'll only see new releases for the Primaris Space Marines from here on out - Space Marines will be left to languish.
We've even now seen a larger Nurgle Chaos Space Marine. The writing is on the wall.
I don't mind change, but damn... As has been mentioned this isn't simply scale creep. This is a full on undermining of the narrative, a full on subversion of hobbyists entire model collections.
Can you tell I'm a little upset? I think I finally have a full understanding and appreciation for what the WFB players went through with the whole AoS change.
Kirasu wrote: Awesome, more incompatible fluff from writers unfamiliar with the backstory of the original great crusade. A dozen whole chapters? Wow 12000 marines are going to bring freedom to the Galaxy.
The great crusade had over 2 MILLION space marines with 18 primarch + The Emperor and countless imperial Navy and army troops that took over 200 years.
Guilliman himself led 250,000 marines and yet now using 5% of that is some kind of grand plan? Ugh.
It's not as if there is a large reserve of Space Marines. The galaxy went to hell, Guilliman is doing with what he has, and he doesn't have 2 million Space Marines.
Huh? Games workshop invented this absurd fluff with guilliman and cawl. They could have certainly made it more believable. He has exactly how many marines the gw writer puts on the paper...
The point, which was missed, is that there is no way in hell that guilliman should be able to accomplish the same task with LESS than 1% the troops. Hence internal consistency
"Roboute Guilliman gathered his new armada. Along with elements of the Adeptus Custodes, a small contingent of the Silent Sisterhood, and a vast war host of Primaris Space Marines from many newly founded Chapters, the Primarch set a winding course. Strike forces from over a dozen pre-existing Chapters of Space Marines, led by the Imperial Fists, joined the fleet."
Not just 12, 000 marines.
Where does it say anything about achieving exactly the same as the great crusade anyway?
Kirasu wrote: Awesome, more incompatible fluff from writers unfamiliar with the backstory of the original great crusade. A dozen whole chapters? Wow 12000 marines are going to bring freedom to the Galaxy.
The great crusade had over 2 MILLION space marines with 18 primarch + The Emperor and countless imperial Navy and army troops that took over 200 years.
Guilliman himself led 250,000 marines and yet now using 5% of that is some kind of grand plan? Ugh.
It's not as if there is a large reserve of Space Marines. The galaxy went to hell, Guilliman is doing with what he has, and he doesn't have 2 million Space Marines.
Huh? Games workshop invented this absurd fluff with guilliman and cawl. They could have certainly made it more believable. He has exactly how many marines the gw writer puts on the paper...
The point, which was missed, is that there is no way in hell that guilliman should be able to accomplish the same task with LESS than 1% the troops. Hence internal consistency
Aa but they are NU-marines. Mere marines weep at theip awesomess.
Kirasu wrote: Awesome, more incompatible fluff from writers unfamiliar with the backstory of the original great crusade. A dozen whole chapters? Wow 12000 marines are going to bring freedom to the Galaxy.
The great crusade had over 2 MILLION space marines with 18 primarch + The Emperor and countless imperial Navy and army troops that took over 200 years.
Guilliman himself led 250,000 marines and yet now using 5% of that is some kind of grand plan? Ugh.
It's not as if there is a large reserve of Space Marines. The galaxy went to hell, Guilliman is doing with what he has, and he doesn't have 2 million Space Marines.
Huh? Games workshop invented this absurd fluff with guilliman and cawl. They could have certainly made it more believable. He has exactly how many marines the gw writer puts on the paper...
The point, which was missed, is that there is no way in hell that guilliman should be able to accomplish the same task with LESS than 1% the troops. Hence internal consistency
It's not the same task. The Great Crusade was to conquer the galaxy, the Indomitus Crusade is to reinforce already existing warzones.
Kirasu wrote: Awesome, more incompatible fluff from writers unfamiliar with the backstory of the original great crusade. A dozen whole chapters? Wow 12000 marines are going to bring freedom to the Galaxy.
The great crusade had over 2 MILLION space marines with 18 primarch + The Emperor and countless imperial Navy and army troops that took over 200 years.
Guilliman himself led 250,000 marines and yet now using 5% of that is some kind of grand plan? Ugh.
It's not as if there is a large reserve of Space Marines. The galaxy went to hell, Guilliman is doing with what he has, and he doesn't have 2 million Space Marines.
Silly sphess mehreens, 12000 super duper mehreens is all it takes to do what it 2million of you lesser mehreens failed to even finish.
So, just re-reading the Warhammer Community site when I realised the article name that introduced the Primaris Marines is 'A New Breed of Hero'.
Are these........ Howard the Duck Marines???
I will give many internets to the first person to model Captain Howardus and his Anatidae Guard in their ceremonial white armour with yellow beakies and orange feet...
Leth wrote: 12000 ADDITIONAL troops, and all the regiments of the IG, and all of the existing space marine chapters, and all of the sisters detachments, and all of the inquisition resources, so on and so forth.
YeOldSaltPotato wrote: I love the image of Guilliman walking in and saying "I need two million marines to save the imperirum" and getting "I can get you 12,000" from Cawl.
Sorry if this seems like dragging something up to attack you, Unusual Suspect. I had this in a separate tab and I forgot to reply with it yesterday and think it's actually an important bit to discuss.
Edit: also, the presumption that the explicit wording that Fly grants the ability to fall back and shoot is just the article writer expressing himself poorly is hilarious.
Considering that when he did the CSM article people were saying that it was poorly written/expressed...it's not that bad of a presumption.
Also, again, "Fly" actually has something for us to compare it to with AoS.
Does AoS have a similar "retreat from combat" mechanic?
Indeed it does. The "retreat from combat" part for AoS, like we've had discussed for 40k from GW itself, takes place not during the Combat phase itself but during the Movement phase.
Warhammer Community "Movement" Article wrote:If you’re in combat at the start of your turn, you can Fall Back by moving away from the enemy. You’ll lose the ability to advance, shoot or charge that turn, and crucially, enemies will be able to shoot at you! This does, however, open up a vast range of tactical options for armies like the Astra Militarum, who will now be able to effectively deploy in firing lines, with each row falling back from any assaults in good order (if they survived) while the unit behind them fires at the attackers. It goes both ways though – if you have a dedicated assault unit that specializes in killing infantry (like Warp Talons) your opponent will find it much harder to pin them down in combat with heavily armoured units for the entire game.
The way that Retreating works for Age of Sigmar?
Age of Sigmar's rules wrote:
Units starting the movement phase within 3" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or retreat. If you choose to retreat, the unit must end its move more than 3" away from all enemy units. If a unit retreats, then it can't shoot or charge later that turn.
The special rule for "Fly" has the following to say there:
Age of Sigmar's rules wrote:
If the warscroll for a model says that the model can fly, it can pass across models and scenery as if they were not there. It still may not finish the move within 3" of an enemy in the movement phase, and if it is already within 3" of an enemy it can only retreat or remain stationary.
If not, what could we possibly learn from AoS regarding that particular rules interaction?
The "retreat from combat" for Age of Sigmar can happen two ways:
1) Retreating during the movement phase.
2) Bespoke rules like the Gryph-Hound's "Darting Attacks" or the Skink "Wary Fighters" rule.
Darting Attacks wrote:Gryph-Hounds attack in a series of darting strikes. Immediately after this unit attacks in the combat phase, roll a dice and move each model in the unit up to that many inches.
Wary Fighters wrote:When it is this unit's turn to pile in and attack, it can withdraw instead. Move each model in the unit up to 8", so that each one ends up at least 3" from the enemy.
The reason why I said that I think there's something missing is that it would be super surprising if "Fly", a generic keyword, did something as powerful as allowing you to leave a combat and then act normally...and it only gets mentioned in passing tied to Crisis Suits, a unit that can take the "Bonding Knife Ritual" which currently grants "Heroic Morale" to a unit even without an IC.
I mean, if "Fly" lets you flee from a Combat with no penalties? I would think that would have merited a mention during the "Movement" article or could have been brought up during the Eldar faction focus or the woefully inadequate Chaos Space Marines faction focus.
On the far side of the galaxy-spanning warp storm, things have quite literally gone to hell.
Me confused. What side are they talking about? I.e. what segmentums?
Spoiler:
Warhammer Community wrote:The Great Rift is a tear in reality that essentially divides the Imperium in half. Its emergence was a literal galaxy-shattering event, which threw the Imperium into chaos and ushered in new wars across nearly every world in the Imperium. So powerful and far was this storm that the very laws of physics fray at the edges as the inconsistencies of time fluctuations, once largely localised to larger storms such as the Eye of Terror, spread across the galaxy. Some worlds felt centuries go by in an instant while others were all but frozen in time, and still others have suffered constant temporal shifts.
None fully understand the origins of the rift – though there are many theories: the breach of the Cadian Gate, the sorcery of a Daemon Primarch, catastrophe in the Webway, mass bloodshed and fire in the Damocles Gulf – all may have caused or contributed to it. The rift is variously known by the cultures of the galaxy as the Crimson Path, the Mouth of Ruin, the Warpscar, the Dathedian, Gork’s Grin and a thousand other names besides. To the Imperium it is the Cicatrix Maledictum, or just the Great Rift. To those on the Terran side, it is a tainted scar across the sky. To those unfortunates on the far side, it is far worse…
I would assume they're talking about the non-Terran side, so Segmentum Obscurus and Ultima.
To me, it's clear as day that GW intends on phasing out the Space Marines line in favor of the new hotness; Primaris Space Marines. All we have to do is read between the lines; look past their carefully crafted words. It's all right there in the FAQ.
...you’ve seen the Intercessors, ..., but there are plenty more on the way. And ...vehicles too ...some Chapters, ..., now have entire companies of these new warriors. Others have incorporated squads of Primaris Space Marines into existing Battle Companies. ...entirely new Chapters out of these new Space Marines. Any ... Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines...
I believe it's foolish to assume that GW intends on continuing with the existing Space Marines line. I fully believe that we'll only see new releases for the Primaris Space Marines from here on out - Space Marines will be left to languish.
We've even now seen a larger Nurgle Chaos Space Marine. The writing is on the wall.
I don't mind change, but damn... As has been mentioned this isn't simply scale creep. This is a full on undermining of the narrative, a full on subversion of hobbyists entire model collections.
Can you tell I'm a little upset? I think I finally have a full understanding and appreciation for what the WFB players went through with the whole AoS change.
I would say most of us are quite aware of what is happening.
They aren't terminating the molds. They haven't written the old out. It doesn't subvert the collection. People will indicate their interest with their wallets and numarines will likely be the winner. Then 6-8 years from now they'll fade them out in the story and very few people will care, because most everyone will have newer models.
Do you still see tons of metal models on the table? Where are those complaints?
Did someone take seriously the numbers that 40k gives in their fluff?
Like the "Theres only 250.000 sisters of battle in the whole galaxy", when in a medieval battle you could have 200k soldiers in just one side, and normally, 40K battles are absurdly large.
The "Theres 1000 chapters of 1000 marines" is pretty absurd. Theres basically less marines than Imperial Planets.
I really don't see how people can be angry or upset about how they are going about phasing in the new marines. I think they have managed to tick all boxes. Nothing is being invalidated, it makes perfect sense for their to be marines of different sizes and marks on the battlefield within the same army, it is the continuation of well established fluff.
I sometimes think there are those who want everything to stay the exact same and never change. 30 years and they are improving the marines by explaining it well in the fluff, setting up lots of potential future conflict and interesting story lines. How can people say stupid things like "they are just invalidating peoples entire collections" erm... no they are not.
flakpanzer wrote:So I reread the Primaris FAQ this morning, and it stated this:
I believe it's foolish to assume that GW intends on continuing with the existing Space Marines line. I fully believe that we'll only see new releases for the Primaris Space Marines from here on out - Space Marines will be left to languish.
We've even now seen a larger Nurgle Chaos Space Marine. The writing is on the wall.
I don't mind change, but damn... As has been mentioned this isn't simply scale creep. This is a full on undermining of the narrative, a full on subversion of hobbyists entire model collections.
Can you tell I'm a little upset? I think I finally have a full understanding and appreciation for what the WFB players went through with the whole AoS change.
So...just use your prexisting Marines...I mean. No one will care. I wont care....am I alone in not caring if my opponent fields his already painted army and doesn't use the nu-marines. i feel that no one will care. Am I wrong?
Galas wrote: Did someone take seriously the numbers that 40k gives in their fluff?
Like the "Theres only 250.000 sisters of battle in the whole galaxy", when in a medieval battle you could have 200k soldiers in just one side, and normally, 40K battles are absurdly large.
The "Theres 1000 chapters of 1000 marines" is pretty absurd. Theres basically less marines than Imperial Planets.
Actually there ARE less marines than imperial worlds, probably sisters and maybe Skitarii too. But the forces of the Imperial Guard are nearly unending.
It's also pretty silly to take writers numbers at face value either way. Even with 2,000,000 space marines conquering the whole galaxy is absurd. The Milky Way has over 100,000,000,000 planets, even if a tenth of a percent of them were ones worth conquering your 2,000,000 marines would be hopelessly undermanned, no matter how awesome they were.
To me, it's clear as day that GW intends on phasing out the Space Marines line in favor of the new hotness; Primaris Space Marines. All we have to do is read between the lines; look past their carefully crafted words. It's all right there in the FAQ.
...you’ve seen the Intercessors, ..., but there are plenty more on the way. And ...vehicles too ...some Chapters, ..., now have entire companies of these new warriors. Others have incorporated squads of Primaris Space Marines into existing Battle Companies. ...entirely new Chapters out of these new Space Marines. Any ... Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines...
I believe it's foolish to assume that GW intends on continuing with the existing Space Marines line. I fully believe that we'll only see new releases for the Primaris Space Marines from here on out - Space Marines will be left to languish.
We've even now seen a larger Nurgle Chaos Space Marine. The writing is on the wall.
I don't mind change, but damn... As has been mentioned this isn't simply scale creep. This is a full on undermining of the narrative, a full on subversion of hobbyists entire model collections.
Can you tell I'm a little upset? I think I finally have a full understanding and appreciation for what the WFB players went through with the whole AoS change.
I would say most of us are quite aware of what is happening.
They aren't terminating the molds. They haven't written the old out. It doesn't subvert the collection. People will indicate their interest with their wallets and numarines will likely be the winner. Then 6-8 years from now they'll fade them out in the story and very few people will care, because most everyone will have newer models.
Do you still see tons of metal models on the table? Where are those complaints?
I agree with most of your point but the part I placed in bold. There is a massive difference between technology allowing for models to hold high detail in a more convenient medium, and suddenly altering the scale and lore of a line.
Further more, I saw the righting on the wall and didn't mind much at first. After all scale has been creeping in for years, just look at rogue trader beakies. But, since they decided to make newer marines with altered in game stats, suddenly in 6-8 years when the lines are updated, I can't really use my old marine army in good faith since suddenly they have 2 wounds etc etc.
I can easily see why folks are frustrated, I mean heck I have 300 power armor bodies at least across several armies. NO WAY am I ever purchasing so many marines of any type again. I'll model a new army eventually, in my favorite faction and call it quits this time rather then recreating several factions I love. For the amount of gaming I can get in it simply isn't worth the risk of one day not being able to play an army. I'd rather focus on my Imperial Guard and xenos this edition since they are much safer from the creep (though I am sure it will catch everything).
Q: So...would the blood angels be getting a big fly swatter to deal with this bug menace?
A: New Dreadnought combat weapon confirmed.
Q: nothing wrong with new scale marines, just don't bend fluff for it. Here bigger marines, now change collection or have smaller ones and it's fine, why that ... with cawl smarter than emperor. guilman should be called heretic for his 30k believes by 40k terra
A: Can we just agree that everyone is a Heretic and move on?
Q: God damn it. My beloved Sons of Sanguinius are on the way to squat town. Thanks GW. Looks like its snakes and ladders again for me
A: Hey David,
No one is going to Squat Town.
No need for Snakes and ladders, when you can play Leviathans and Jump packs.
Q: Dear Games Workshop Community manager, i know you certainly won't answer my question. But as i see the Lord of the XIIIth coming back and leading the armies of our God-Emperor, i want to ask, are other sons of the Emperor coming back too ? In these dark times, the sons of the First Legion really need their Primarch to guide them in theses ages of Darkness. And i'm not speaking only for the Ist Legion, are other still alive Primarchs planned to be brought back ?
A: Hey Steven,
Thanks for your question.
All we know at the moment, is that Guilliman is a the head of a new Crusade, and Magnus is once more out and about in the Galaxy.
Will we see any more primarchs return? Maybe, there are certainly some that are "lost" rather than confirmed dead, but we don't have any news on their return at the moment.
Q: Greeting GW PR team,
This has been the best PR campaigns in wargaming I have ever seen so well done. It does have a downside as we only see small elements at a time and it is a very hard system balance of point, counter point to keep everyone happy with what articles are released and what concerns are alleviated.
So far between the factions focuses and preview articles the game is feeling even more weighted in favor of shooting than what we have seen in 6th and 7th. We have had the Fight Phase preview but that article really just let us know it will play similar to AoS giving the community a more strategic improvement to the close combat phase. Between the PR replies and the article we keep getting the "get excited because close combat is great" reply. Unfortunately we have not gotten a solid preview how this is true.
The example that was used is Guardsman vs Khorne Berserkers but most of the time the Guardsman win this fight in the last few editions. This was due to three game elements Area of Influence, Combat Effectiveness and pointing of models being made without taking into account of the last two elements.
Area of Influence - the area that takes into account the mobility and weapon's range of engagement. This is obviously in favor of fast units and ranged focused units.
Combat Effectiveness - This is the threshold of a unit to still make a meaningful impact related to combat on the battlefield. It takes into account many factors including Area of Influence. Again ranged units normally maintain combat effectiveness longer than non deathstar close combat specialist.
Non deathstar units normally take damage on their approach as well as in the close combat phase. Leaving a unit like Khorne Berserkers at reduced strength by the time they are able the are able to engage an enemy. If the close combat specialist win their combat now they repeat this process but generally reach the threshold of combat ineffective at a faster rate then most ranged units.
The community would really like to see a some articles on how close combat has improved. Try to cover these items and more if possible.
- The Pistol information was nice but do they still offer a plus 1 attack in close combat, as I'm not sure if that was covered?
- The moral check system is going to be very rough for close combat units taking tests on the way in and most likely from close combat. Is there a rule that helps protect the victor of close combat from taking a moral test? YAY we just won this fight but Bob died so more of us get to die.
- How fast can units get into combat from reserves and disembarking transports? PS: Please include this info in tomorrow's post.
- A more extensive look at weapons and abilities close combat specialist have to help turn the tide of battle.
- Give us some detailed examples on match ups example Guardsman vs Khorne Berserkers. How have things changed for close combat specialist and are Guardsman and their equivalent now hitting in melee on something like a 5+?
- Has there been anything done to help out melee infantry advancing across the battlefield? Currently it is better to take units that will fit inside transports over running a 20 man Khorne Berserkers or Crusader squads. Cheap horde units are nice looking at you Ork boys but in games that are time bound horde armies are not reasonable. I do miss my 230 model green tide but it just takes to long to play.
Thanks for your hard work and the community would love to know why and how close combat had improved with 8th.
A: Hey Matthew,
We'll certainly get you some nice juicy rules on Combat very soon covering some, if not all the things you mentioned.
Q: Blasphemy !! Baal will never fall !
Baal will become the new guiding light of the" Dark Imperium" with Sanguinius acting as the Astronomicon of Imperium Nihilus just as the Emperor is the Astronomicon on Terra for the rest of the Imperium....
I repeat Baal can not and Will not FALL !
Js..
A: That the spirit.
Q: I dont actually expect a response here but...could we just get on with it?
Ive played 40k for 17 years. Ive seen every rules evolution since 3rd ed. Ive never seen so much hype with no release date.
It really does seem like the game could be brought back to my glory day standards from 3rd and 4th, but this is just dragging out too long.
Take my money!!! Just get every damn thing rolling already!!!!!
A: You don't HAVE to read the articles.
We just thought you'd like to know stuff ahead of time.
Q: My Iron Warriors are certainly not happy to hear about Imperial Fists running around, but this does mean more opportunity to get trophies from killing our most hated foes!
A: We bet it does.
Q: So what's happened to the Dark Angels and their 'successors' *cough* Legion *cough* whilst this has been going on , will Cypher's friends slowly vanish off to the Rock, or will they tag on to the Crusade(s)?
A: We don't know yet, Tom.
Cypher and his buddies have proven pretty hard to catch in the past...
Q: Dear @Warhammer 40,000 I'm wondering... with all this Daemonic Prescence... Where are the Grey Knights?... as a one purpose made Chapter... I don't see them in this lore.
A: The Grey Knights are very much still around.
They do their own thing though, and don't even answer to a Primarch.
Q: Wouldnt Primaris space marines look down on the original space marines? true, they are of the same gene seed, on the same side, brothers and all that, but the original version had a part of them fall to chaos (went traitor) while the new version didnt - unspoiled versus the ones that got eventually spoiled, even a part of them (they had defects).
A: Or would the older ones look down on the untested recruits?
Q: So suddenly Cawl is smarter then the Emperor? It is so dumb I can't find words for it. Just stop changing and retconing old fluff.
A: Well, it took him 10,000 years to "improve" on a Marine with all the resources of Mars, where the Emperor made them from scratch in a few years in his basement.
Q: Hello GW ! All of this is very cool (specially your pre launch news each days) Can we have some news about the grey knights soon ?
A: We'll see what we can do.
Q: Oh. I get it. No need to replace Dante with a primaris when you can just kill all the top brass and then replace them after contact is reestablished! Ha!
A: He's survived 1,000 years of battle. This is just another day in the office right?
Q: So does this mean chapters on the far side, like the Blood Angels don't have Primaris Marines? Kinda sad for Blood Angel players.
A: Hey David,
Guilliman will certainly be trying to get his new reinforcements to Baal, and we're sure Dante will be glad of the help if they can make it.
Q: Newmarines have skitarii pattern galvanic rifles, sans precision shot? Cawl's giving away all our cool stuff!
A: We bet he saved Mars some good stuff too.
Q: will we be getting any more details soon about the blood angels/baal/tyranids?p.s....BRING BACK CORAX!! (please)
A: Nevermore.
Q: So will blood angels have access to Primaris marines? They don't have access to the imperium anymore.
A: If any can reach them in time, we bet they'd happily paint them red and throw them into the jaws of the devourer.
Q: Why the blopd angels always looking like a damsel in distress? Theres a big change coming for them
A: A damsel with a power sword who hunts dragons!
Q: can i join the crusade whit my old marines?, i have many bolter rounds to "gift" to heretics and xenos alike
A: You totally can.
Many non Primaris Marines are on the Crusade too.
Q: first you killed my brets. now you will kill off my angels......why gw why?
A: The angels aren't dead yet, Brad.
Q: The black Templars better have a crusade or I will crusade into your HQ myself
A: We don't think we could stop them crusading if we tried.
Q: Can we possibly have some news of the grey knight ?
A: We'll get you a faction focus article soon, don't worry.
Until I'm told old marines are gone... and I can't believe that will ever happen... the NuMarines are just Chosen for the Chapters that can be MSU Troops. No biggy. Haopy to have them... great for holding down a vital objective
I think most of it depends on how much effort and time you put into modeling/painting your army. I have been in the hobby for almost 30 years and I have a SW army that extends back almost that whole time. Do I want to buy new marines and replace those that are painted to a higher quality than most- no way. The fact that I paint so slowly and am getting up there in age makes it more difficult (and frustrating) for me to see GW most likely replace all my models with bigger ones. First its the marines, then its the terminators, etc. I have played in lots of hobby stores and tourneys over the years, against folks with primed models/ half painted models etc. Honestly I woudl think those folks dont care. They will ebay off their models and start over as they truly never finish an army. In the end if I buy the new marines, I would just have to buy everything else as that one unit would look out of place, so then my termies look out of place and the new dread makes my existing dread look small etc.
Although again it goes back to AoS. Alot of folks said GW wouldnt AoS40k and that's exactly what we are getting. The AoS has a larger aesthetic and that is what 40k has been moving to. If I had to guess, soon most battles will always have a primarch on the table and come down to big guy vs big guy. yet that seems to be what the new generation wants. I just am hoping 30k stays as it is, make it the old timers game.
I wonder if they would have answered the question- Hey GW, will you ever be creating a new marine kit for the existing marine scale?
I agree with most of your point but the part I placed in bold. There is a massive difference between technology allowing for models to hold high detail in a more convenient medium, and suddenly altering the scale and lore of a line.
Further more, I saw the righting on the wall and didn't mind much at first. After all scale has been creeping in for years, just look at rogue trader beakies. But, since they decided to make newer marines with altered in game stats, suddenly in 6-8 years when the lines are updated, I can't really use my old marine army in good faith since suddenly they have 2 wounds etc etc.
I can easily see why folks are frustrated, I mean heck I have 300 power armor bodies at least across several armies. NO WAY am I ever purchasing so many marines of any type again. I'll model a new army eventually, in my favorite faction and call it quits this time rather then recreating several factions I love. For the amount of gaming I can get in it simply isn't worth the risk of one day not being able to play an army. I'd rather focus on my Imperial Guard and xenos this edition since they are much safer from the creep (though I am sure it will catch everything).
The overall point on metal was that people, including myself, still have tons of old metal models that don't see the table.
I look at my old Rubrics and laugh at how terrible they look and how poorly I painted back then. The new ones are a chance for me to start over with a faction that I simply adore.
I'll never toss my old models, but they'll never see the table again either.
Although again it goes back to AoS. Alot of folks said GW wouldnt AoS40k and that's exactly what we are getting. The AoS has a larger aesthetic and that is what 40k has been moving to. If I had to guess, soon most battles will always have a primarch on the table and come down to big guy vs big guy. yet that seems to be what the new generation wants. I just am hoping 30k stays as it is, make it the old timers game.
You're vastly over estimating how strong those big guys are. In fact very few top tournament tables are rolling large models right now.
Lobukia wrote: Until I'm told old marines are gone... and I can't believe that will ever happen... the NuMarines are just Chosen for the Chapters that can be MSU Troops. No biggy. Haopy to have them... great for holding down a vital objective
I hope your right, but I am not so sure. Time will tell of course.
I realized why I am not as big a fan of the new guys as the old BTW, not that anyone should care too much , they remind me of Ironman way too much. It's actually the reason I find the newer tacticals kind of meh, and have been leaning toward the heresy marks. The newer crap is way to techy looking and clean for my liking. I like me some grimdark marines (as much as I think Ironman is cool). All the chip insets and modern lines makes them look too scifi and not enough of space knights.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Finally get a plastic Death Guard release and they're all Mega-Marines?
It's great, isn't it?
Accolade wrote:The old scale is dead.
oni wrote:To me, it's clear as day that GW intends on phasing out the Space Marines line in favor of the new hotness; Primaris Space Marines.
I believe it's foolish to assume that GW intends on continuing with the existing Space Marines line. I fully believe that we'll only see new releases for the Primaris Space Marines from here on out - Space Marines will be left to languish.
We've even now seen a larger Nurgle Chaos Space Marine. The writing is on the wall.
I think you are both right. They are finally bringing the vision of space marines as being towering super humans into their model design. Their way of rolling it out though has put them in a no win situation. Either they invalidated the existing marines directly or did some strange thing where they have them alongside one another. They chose the method that let's people continue playing with their existing models as a separate thing while they roll out the new ones.
I don't mind change, but damn... As has been mentioned this isn't simply scale creep. This is a full on undermining of the narrative, a full on subversion of hobbyists entire model collections.
Can you tell I'm a little upset? I think I finally have a full understanding and appreciation for what the WFB players went through with the whole AoS change.
I'm the opposite. I've always been disappointed by the existing marine miniatures. I'm willing to take some strange monkeying with the fiction to get the new marines while still not invalidating the armies of the old ones rules wise so people can play them in a familiar way with a familiar stat line on day one.
I think you are probably right though, that there are likely going to be no new releases in the existing marine scales. That from here on out they'll go through the various ways marines are equipped but in new Primaris forms. We've already seen pictures of plasma guns and talk of dreadnoughts and vehicles. I'd imagine within a couple of years there will be very few things not covered in the new scale and we'll start to see existing marine kits taken out of production as their replacements are phased in.
@Sturguard... I've been around just as long and I'm not worried a bit. I still have the old blue and red plastic marines on sprue and everything except Orks, IH. and GK in my sig is painted... heck I've hot all three "wing" companies of the DA table ready at half strength or better (50+ marines) and then entire first and second companies of the ultramarines... I'm confident they'll be on the table 20 years from now.
And objectively, as someone who has played dozens of wargames and taught most of them to others... I want 30k to convert to 8E rules ASAP. I'm at a loss as to what is better in the old system
This has been the best PR campaigns in wargaming I have ever seen so well done. It does have a downside as we only see small elements at a time and it is a very hard system balance of point, counter point to keep everyone happy with what articles are released and what concerns are alleviated.
So far between the factions focuses and preview articles the game is feeling even more weighted in favor of shooting than what we have seen in 6th and 7th. We have had the Fight Phase preview but that article really just let us know it will play similar to AoS giving the community a more strategic improvement to the close combat phase. Between the PR replies and the article we keep getting the "get excited because close combat is great" reply. Unfortunately we have not gotten a solid preview how this is true.
The example that was used is Guardsman vs Khorne Berserkers but most of the time the Guardsman win this fight in the last few editions. This was due to three game elements Area of Influence, Combat Effectiveness and pointing of models being made without taking into account of the last two elements.
Area of Influence - the area that takes into account the mobility and weapon's range of engagement. This is obviously in favor of fast units and ranged focused units.
Combat Effectiveness - This is the threshold of a unit to still make a meaningful impact related to combat on the battlefield. It takes into account many factors including Area of Influence. Again ranged units normally maintain combat effectiveness longer than non deathstar close combat specialist.
Non deathstar units normally take damage on their approach as well as in the close combat phase. Leaving a unit like Khorne Berserkers at reduced strength by the time they are able the are able to engage an enemy. If the close combat specialist win their combat now they repeat this process but generally reach the threshold of combat ineffective at a faster rate then most ranged units.
The community would really like to see a some articles on how close combat has improved. Try to cover these items and more if possible.
- The Pistol information was nice but do they still offer a plus 1 attack in close combat, as I'm not sure if that was covered?
- The moral check system is going to be very rough for close combat units taking tests on the way in and most likely from close combat. Is there a rule that helps protect the victor of close combat from taking a moral test? YAY we just won this fight but Bob died so more of us get to die.
- How fast can units get into combat from reserves and disembarking transports? PS: Please include this info in tomorrow's post.
- A more extensive look at weapons and abilities close combat specialist have to help turn the tide of battle.
- Give us some detailed examples on match ups example Guardsman vs Khorne Berserkers. How have things changed for close combat specialist and are Guardsman and their equivalent now hitting in melee on something like a 5+?
- Has there been anything done to help out melee infantry advancing across the battlefield? Currently it is better to take units that will fit inside transports over running a 20 man Khorne Berserkers or Crusader squads. Cheap horde units are nice looking at you Ork boys but in games that are time bound horde armies are not reasonable. I do miss my 230 model green tide but it just takes to long to play.
Thanks for your hard work and the community would love to know why and how close combat had improved with 8th.
I'd argue the new method is far worse in the long term. With two styles of marine in the lore and rules they wrote themselves into a box. Now, one must eventually phase out, the old. Since they have different stats and gear, you can hardly get away with using old marines as a stand in. Had they simply up scaled the kits moving forward, it would be as innocent as seeing older marine models like rogue trader beakies today.
To me, it's clear as day that GW intends on phasing out the Space Marines line in favor of the new hotness; Primaris Space Marines. All we have to do is read between the lines; look past their carefully crafted words. It's all right there in the FAQ.
...you’ve seen the Intercessors, ..., but there are plenty more on the way. And ...vehicles too ...some Chapters, ..., now have entire companies of these new warriors. Others have incorporated squads of Primaris Space Marines into existing Battle Companies. ...entirely new Chapters out of these new Space Marines. Any ... Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines...
I believe it's foolish to assume that GW intends on continuing with the existing Space Marines line. I fully believe that we'll only see new releases for the Primaris Space Marines from here on out - Space Marines will be left to languish.
We've even now seen a larger Nurgle Chaos Space Marine. The writing is on the wall.
I don't mind change, but damn... As has been mentioned this isn't simply scale creep. This is a full on undermining of the narrative, a full on subversion of hobbyists entire model collections.
Can you tell I'm a little upset? I think I finally have a full understanding and appreciation for what the WFB players went through with the whole AoS change.
I would say most of us are quite aware of what is happening.
They aren't terminating the molds. They haven't written the old out. It doesn't subvert the collection. People will indicate their interest with their wallets and numarines will likely be the winner. Then 6-8 years from now they'll fade them out in the story and very few people will care, because most everyone will have newer models.
Do you still see tons of metal models on the table? Where are those complaints?
You are a very optimistic person (a good quality) but there is no way old space marines are making it past 2 years. Why would GW even bother producing models that people are not going to be buying? The shelf life of old space marines will be equal to the rate in which new marines can be produced. I think its going to be barely more than a year before old space marines are taking up a tiny portion of store space and you have to order most stuff in store to get them. But that is me.
Reboots are super in right now to appeal to new audiences. Space Marines just got their first reboot since.. Rogue Trader I believe.
7th edition isnt as bad as you make it sound- if you play with the base rules, get rid of formations, army bonuses and all the other junk GW added on as they went.
If you think this time GW isnt going to break the system with different detachment bonuses, stratagem bonuses and other army specific bonuses as they create paid for content I think you are giving them too much credit. Just because they say they are New GW doesn't mean anything, they were new GW 5 months ago when they were creating formation after formation and selling book after book knowing they were going to invalidate this stuff just months down the road. The one thing you can bet on with GW (and any business- and this isn't a bad or good thing) is that they are looking to make a profit above all else. In general we all spout off about balance, but our actions don't speak volumes. When a broken codex comes out, everyone buys it, people switch armies, they don't care. Look at custodes in 30k, people are eating them up as fast as they can be produced and it isnt because of the models.
New marines also gives them an opportunity to consolidate marines into one book sort of like stormcasts have now. Think of the SKU space they free up by removing the independent marine kits like BA, DA, and SW and simply making new units everyone can share. Just paint them in your old faction colors and heraldry. I mean it is really hard for GW to justify special snowflake kits for wold guard, death wing and even BA termies PLUS the standard kits.
frozenwastes wrote: I think you are both right. They are finally bringing the vision of space marines as being towering super humans into their model design. Their way of rolling it out though has put them in a no win situation. Either they invalidated the existing marines directly or did some strange thing where they have them alongside one another. They chose the method that let's people continue playing with their existing models as a separate thing while they roll out the new ones.
I do wonder if they'd just silently up scaled them if the reaction would be any better. If they're the same height as the last few chaos releases I'll at least be picking up the chaos rule book when it comes out to consider picking some up if they aren't going to immediately be towered over by the new imperial hotness.
Lobukia wrote: I can't see the ITC ever saying old marines can't count as NuMarines if a full phase out ever happens
We will get a little fluff blurb in a book where new marines have had to wear retrofitted older mark armor because of terrible event. Then bam, old marines become new marines.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I'll spare people another rant against these new marines. I done that yesterday, and you know where I stand on the new marine/bolt rifle issue.
What I wanted to say was this: I don't often give credit to GW, but that leaked plague marine photo gets a big thumbs up from me.
Why? Because a few years back, I had to paint up the Dark Vengeance box set for a younger family member who got it at Xmas.
And those Chaos Chosen were absolutely (insert swear word here) awful to paint.
Some of the worst models I've ever had to paint. Way too much detail and clutter on them.
This new plague marine looks good and isn't drowned out by too much detail.
Good on you GW. Saved me a lot of potential hassle in the future.
I disagree 100% on the dark vengeance mini's. They are some of the best sculpts I've ever painted and by no means have too much detail. I consider myself a pretty decent painter with a brush, and there are companies out there that I couldn't even differentiate the detail because it was so fine and so cluttered.
You are a very optimistic person (a good quality) but there is no way old space marines are making it past 2 years. Why would GW even bother producing models that people are not going to be buying? The shelf life of old space marines will be equal to the rate in which new marines can be produced. I think its going to be barely more than a year before old space marines are taking up a tiny portion of store space and you have to order most stuff in store to get them. But that is me.
Reboots are super in right now to appeal to new audiences. Space Marines just got their first reboot since.. Rogue Trader I believe.
Thank you for the kind words.
With the new GW setup they don't need to occupy store shelves to make them available. You're right that in probably a bit over 2 years they'll be gone from stores, but still at the webstore. Once they've reached a critical mass of kits to replace enough they might make a fluff move to explain everything.
To me, it's clear as day that GW intends on phasing out the Space Marines line in favor of the new hotness; Primaris Space Marines. All we have to do is read between the lines; look past their carefully crafted words. It's all right there in the FAQ.
...you’ve seen the Intercessors, ..., but there are plenty more on the way. And ...vehicles too ...some Chapters, ..., now have entire companies of these new warriors. Others have incorporated squads of Primaris Space Marines into existing Battle Companies. ...entirely new Chapters out of these new Space Marines. Any ... Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines...
I believe it's foolish to assume that GW intends on continuing with the existing Space Marines line. I fully believe that we'll only see new releases for the Primaris Space Marines from here on out - Space Marines will be left to languish.
We've even now seen a larger Nurgle Chaos Space Marine. The writing is on the wall.
I don't mind change, but damn... As has been mentioned this isn't simply scale creep. This is a full on undermining of the narrative, a full on subversion of hobbyists entire model collections.
Can you tell I'm a little upset? I think I finally have a full understanding and appreciation for what the WFB players went through with the whole AoS change.
If it were just a model scale/asthetics change and a moderate fluff change (new Mk X armor and new pattern bolter!), I'd be fine with it. It's the fluff replacement of Adeptus Astartes with Adeptus Restartes that bothers me the most as it was unnecessary. I've dealt with the switch from monopose 2nd edition plastics and hybrid plastic/metals to 3rd edition omnimarine kit to specialized class plastic kits (like all plastic devs) to specialized variants for each chapter.. and I didn't bat an eyelash at any of them (and most I applauded at the time regardless if my own models were being replaced). Changing the fluff to officially make the original marines like an Iphone 4 in an 6S universe was completely unnecessary. If they wanted to improve marine stats to something more akin to what the fluff says, I'd have applauded that as well if they just grandfathered all marines in at the same time instead of downgrading the ones we already had.
Anyone who doesn't think that this isn't the end of original marine development in favor of numarines is kidding themselves. How many new knightly orders, the previous elite followers of sigmar, has the empire, the supposed land of sigmar, faction gotten since the sigmarines came out? Ten years from now, pure old marines will be about as comprehensively supported as the SOB have been since 3rd edition. That said, I'm simply *poof* making my old marines turn into numarines with a wave of my hand. If the rules say that you must use 32mm bases for numarines then I'll jury rig a conversion.
If they do phase out the old marines, I'd be fine with it as long as we can still use the old models to represent the new ones. After all, the new stat line is more representative of what the fluff builds space marines up to be. As long as they have an appropriate cost so that they're balanced in the game I think it would make standard infantry a lot more fun to play for space marines.
I can't imagine them saying the old models would ever be unusable either. They've never done that for the scale of old products in the past. I still have my old metal csm dreadnoughts, for example, or look at the old rhino/land raider and lord of change/bloodthirster. They have lots of outdated sizes but people still allow them in games.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I'll spare people another rant against these new marines. I done that yesterday, and you know where I stand on the new marine/bolt rifle issue.
What I wanted to say was this: I don't often give credit to GW, but that leaked plague marine photo gets a big thumbs up from me.
Why? Because a few years back, I had to paint up the Dark Vengeance box set for a younger family member who got it at Xmas.
And those Chaos Chosen were absolutely (insert swear word here) awful to paint.
Some of the worst models I've ever had to paint. Way too much detail and clutter on them.
This new plague marine looks good and isn't drowned out by too much detail.
Good on you GW. Saved me a lot of potential hassle in the future.
I disagree 100% on the dark vengeance mini's. They are some of the best sculpts I've ever painted and by no means have too much detail. I consider myself a pretty decent painter with a brush, and there are companies out there that I couldn't even differentiate the detail because it was so fine and so cluttered.
Not disagreeing with you but just something you may not have considered is how hard such a cluttered model is for an average or worse painter. You said yourself your a decent painter, a decent painter can have fun painting almost anything. I have known more then a few less then great painters that get overwhelmed or struggle with those guys.
sturguard wrote: 7th edition isnt as bad as you make it sound- if you play with the base rules, get rid of formations, army bonuses and all the other junk GW added on as they went.
At that rate, one should just play 5th. Or even OOTB 3rd.
You are a very optimistic person (a good quality) but there is no way old space marines are making it past 2 years. Why would GW even bother producing models that people are not going to be buying? The shelf life of old space marines will be equal to the rate in which new marines can be produced. I think its going to be barely more than a year before old space marines are taking up a tiny portion of store space and you have to order most stuff in store to get them. But that is me.
Reboots are super in right now to appeal to new audiences. Space Marines just got their first reboot since.. Rogue Trader I believe.
Thank you for the kind words.
With the new GW setup they don't need to occupy store shelves to make them available. You're right that in probably a bit over 2 years they'll be gone from stores, but still at the webstore. Once they've reached a critical mass of kits to replace enough they might make a fluff move to explain everything.
I think they will just turn old marines into new marines at some point. We will all be left scratching our heads wondering why they even bothered in the first place.
Oooooooor, Papa Nurgle finally concocts a plague that kills Astartes but Primaris are immune. Almost all Astartes are dead in 40k and long live the Primaris.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I'll spare people another rant against these new marines. I done that yesterday, and you know where I stand on the new marine/bolt rifle issue.
What I wanted to say was this: I don't often give credit to GW, but that leaked plague marine photo gets a big thumbs up from me.
Why? Because a few years back, I had to paint up the Dark Vengeance box set for a younger family member who got it at Xmas.
And those Chaos Chosen were absolutely (insert swear word here) awful to paint.
Some of the worst models I've ever had to paint. Way too much detail and clutter on them.
This new plague marine looks good and isn't drowned out by too much detail.
Good on you GW. Saved me a lot of potential hassle in the future.
I disagree 100% on the dark vengeance mini's. They are some of the best sculpts I've ever painted and by no means have too much detail. I consider myself a pretty decent painter with a brush, and there are companies out there that I couldn't even differentiate the detail because it was so fine and so cluttered.
Not disagreeing with you but just something you may not have considered is how hard such a cluttered model is for an average or worse painter. You said yourself your a decent painter, a decent painter can have fun painting almost anything. I have known more then a few less then great painters that get overwhelmed or struggle with those guys.
I'm not 100% disagreeing here, but being a decent painter has nothing to do with your skill level as much as it does patience. That's what makes someone decent. I actually found that marine I painted fully to be quite easy. Base coat, dry brush, pick out the gold, wash the gold. Drybrush the demon heads, paint the eyes, pick out the weapons and gear. Finish with 2 coats of Pledge Floor care and done. All in all I think that model took about a day to paint solo. Now I wont lie, the warlord was a different story. Not so much because he had too much detail, but because the detail he had was so weird and unlike anything in the chaos army. Different angles and objects and such.
Daedalus81 wrote: I would say most of us are quite aware of what is happening.
They aren't terminating the molds. They haven't written the old out. It doesn't subvert the collection. People will indicate their interest with their wallets and numarines will likely be the winner. Then 6-8 years from now they'll fade them out in the story and very few people will care, because most everyone will have newer models.
Do you still see tons of metal models on the table? Where are those complaints?
You are a very optimistic person (a good quality) but there is no way old space marines are making it past 2 years. Why would GW even bother producing models that people are not going to be buying? The shelf life of old space marines will be equal to the rate in which new marines can be produced. I think its going to be barely more than a year before old space marines are taking up a tiny portion of store space and you have to order most stuff in store to get them. But that is me.
Reboots are super in right now to appeal to new audiences. Space Marines just got their first reboot since.. Rogue Trader I believe.
You are correct in that they aren't going to go out and destroy existing stocks of 50+ marine kits nor get rid of the expensive molds. What I suspect will happen is that as Adeptus Restarted Devastators get released then they'll retire Oldstartes Devs to direct order/online only. Stores will no longer be required to stock it and at the lower discount financially discouraged to do so voluntarily as well. Players will still be ostensibly able to get them direct from GW (where they get the highest margin) if they go through the extra effort but most new or growing players will switch to the new hotness. As the demand and supplies both dry up, restocks will be less frequent and the item will probably go out of stock/unavaible for periods of time as GW prioritizes making new kits on their limited number of plastic extrusion machinery and just fit in the older kits inbetween. Eventually even steel molds wear out and won't be replaced (probably in 5-10 years). SInce numarine devs will already be out for years and likely outselling them by a large margin due to the ubiquity of the former and the direct only nature of the latter, redoing the expensive mold won't make sense. And then that Oldstartes marine kit will well and truly be out of print never to see a revision again other than maybe a token half hearted rules release ala SOB. Rinse, lather, repeat for equivalent Oldstartes plastics as each new numarine plastic kit is released. I'd expect the drop off for finecast/resin models to be much more precipitous.
All we have to do is read between the lines; look past their carefully crafted words. It's all right there in the FAQ.
Careful how deep you gaze into the void
it might just gaze back.
not that i dont mind some cynicism i find it funny and probably partially or totally true.
as to the phase out its probably not going to happen in a LONG time.
Nah, I have been saying it for a few years now and as recent as the Numarine thread. GW has finite resources and shelf space. It's a supply side issue they cl;early were about to run ito with the increased release schedule. No way an in house production like theres can maintain the amount of SKU's they have now and continue to support old while making new. The heaviest burden BY FAR are marines. Sure they are a bread winner, but there is no reason to make a vanilla tac squad, a blood angle tac squad, a swtac squad (GH's are basically that) and repeat that process for terminators etc etc. You also have the added issue with that design, that when something is released for SW only, think TWC, you are not selling it to all the other marines players. Now imagine 1/3 or less kits for everyone to share and every time you make a special snowflake unit like centurians, not only will there be no jealous complaining but you get to sell it to everyone.... \
As a company decision it makes the most sense and I imagine it will happen faster then most expect. Think less then the lifespan of 8th quick.
The Chosen were just too fiddly for me to paint, and I consider myself a decent painter, but I was losing the will to live when painting the chosen.
The Cultists on the other hand were a joy and full of character, so much so, I bought more to use in other games systems.
Space Marines have always been fun to paint, and ironically, even though I don't like the rules for the new marines, I think they'd be good fun to paint, even more so that the old, because of their bigger scale and sleek lines.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I'll spare people another rant against these new marines. I done that yesterday, and you know where I stand on the new marine/bolt rifle issue.
What I wanted to say was this: I don't often give credit to GW, but that leaked plague marine photo gets a big thumbs up from me.
Why? Because a few years back, I had to paint up the Dark Vengeance box set for a younger family member who got it at Xmas.
And those Chaos Chosen were absolutely (insert swear word here) awful to paint.
Some of the worst models I've ever had to paint. Way too much detail and clutter on them.
This new plague marine looks good and isn't drowned out by too much detail.
Good on you GW. Saved me a lot of potential hassle in the future.
I disagree 100% on the dark vengeance mini's. They are some of the best sculpts I've ever painted and by no means have too much detail. I consider myself a pretty decent painter with a brush, and there are companies out there that I couldn't even differentiate the detail because it was so fine and so cluttered.
Not disagreeing with you but just something you may not have considered is how hard such a cluttered model is for an average or worse painter. You said yourself your a decent painter, a decent painter can have fun painting almost anything. I have known more then a few less then great painters that get overwhelmed or struggle with those guys.
I'm not 100% disagreeing here, but being a decent painter has nothing to do with your skill level as much as it does patience. That's what makes someone decent. I actually found that marine I painted fully to be quite easy. Base coat, dry brush, pick out the gold, wash the gold. Drybrush the demon heads, paint the eyes, pick out the weapons and gear. Finish with 2 coats of Pledge Floor care and done. All in all I think that model took about a day to paint solo. Now I wont lie, the warlord was a different story. Not so much because he had too much detail, but because the detail he had was so weird and unlike anything in the chaos army. Different angles and objects and such.
I know what your saying 100% and try to explain to new comers that they simply need to take a little more time. I do however know a lot of people that seriously struggle with that amount of detail for one reason or another.
flakpanzer wrote: So I reread the Primaris FAQ this morning, and it stated this:
"I have an <insert favourite Chapter> army. Can I field Primaris Space Marines?
Any of the galaxy’s many hundreds of Codex Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines, along with many of the less Codex-compliant ones like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves."
If the Blood Angels are on the other side of that Warp Rift from Terra/Mars, how are they going to get Primaris reinforcements?
The article about the rift said it has two safe passages, one which is (currently) under Imperium control.
Leth wrote: 12000 ADDITIONAL troops, and all the regiments of the IG, and all of the existing space marine chapters, and all of the sisters detachments, and all of the inquisition resources, so on and so forth.
Which are pittances when wars involve billions
Considering a Company of 100ish marines is enough to turn a war that spans an entire planet or star system it seems pretty significant. In addition if they are doing it grand crusade style it will be a slowly expanding sphere rather than trying to fight EVERYWHERE at once.
Personally I am really happy they kept the primaris marines light on detail while also keeping the heads and shoulder pads the same. Makes it really easy to integrate them into any marine army you have while also having a minimal amount of detail.
I could totally see FW (Or some third party individuals) doing some chapter specific chest pieces as well to really flesh it out.
warboss wrote: That said, I'm simply *poof* making my old marines turn into numarines with a wave of my hand. If the rules say that you must use 32mm bases for numarines then I'll jury rig a conversion.
Mount old marines with 25mm bases directly on 32mm bases: Done! Figure is taller by 3mm and on a 32 base.
If it were just a model scale/asthetics change and a moderate fluff change (new Mk X armor and new pattern bolter!), I'd be fine with it. It's the fluff replacement of Adeptus Astartes with Adeptus Restartes that bothers me the most as it was unnecessary. I've dealt with the switch from monopose 2nd edition plastics and hybrid plastic/metals to 3rd edition omnimarine kit to specialized class plastic kits (like all plastic devs) to specialized variants for each chapter.. and I didn't bat an eyelash at any of them (and most I applauded at the time regardless if my own models were being replaced). Changing the fluff to officially make the original marines like an Iphone 4 in an 6S universe was completely unnecessary. If they wanted to improve marine stats to something more akin to what the fluff says, I'd have applauded that as well if they just grandfathered all marines in at the same time instead of downgrading the ones we already had.
Anyone who doesn't think that this isn't the end of original marine development in favor of numarines is kidding themselves. How many new knightly orders, the previous elite followers of sigmar, has the empire, the supposed land of sigmar, faction gotten since the sigmarines came out? Ten years from now, pure old marines will be about as comprehensively supported as the SOB have been since 3rd edition. That said, I'm simply *poof* making my old marines turn into numarines with a wave of my hand. If the rules say that you must use 32mm bases for numarines then I'll jury rig a conversion.
Yep, pretty much this. I would have definitely preferred these just being an updated models (perhaps with some new gear like you said) rather than completely new type of marine. It will be a horrible fluff and rule mess.
Nevertheless, the models are amazing, and I will probably be retiring my current marines in favour of them, like I retired my Dark Angels ages ago. It's a bit sad, as I've put so much time and effort in them, but I really cannot see myself to continue using the old models once these new superior ones will be available.
Frankly I'm hoping the Primaris Marines and all they imply lead to a splintering of the Imperium and locking the setting into a new civil war while it's being torn into by threats by all sides.
I mean from the fluff alone the Inquisition will likely not be able to calm their exterminatus button fingers over the idea that a "mere" Primarch tampered with the Emperor's work the way he did.
So basically the Imperium gets broken into subfactions with everyone claiming to be the side that actually follows the Emperor's vision, more Primarchs come back and the infighting gets messier.
Also I wonder if RG will bother to update his Codex so everyone gets a clean copy of what it should read instead of the incomplete ones that currently exist. And of course I look forward to the chaos that causes as well.
Basically, if GW does this right, I don't even know if the Emperor's return could save the Imperium.
If it were just a model scale/asthetics change and a moderate fluff change (new Mk X armor and new pattern bolter!), I'd be fine with it. It's the fluff replacement of Adeptus Astartes with Adeptus Restartes that bothers me the most as it was unnecessary. I've dealt with the switch from monopose 2nd edition plastics and hybrid plastic/metals to 3rd edition omnimarine kit to specialized class plastic kits (like all plastic devs) to specialized variants for each chapter.. and I didn't bat an eyelash at any of them (and most I applauded at the time regardless if my own models were being replaced). Changing the fluff to officially make the original marines like an Iphone 4 in an 6S universe was completely unnecessary. If they wanted to improve marine stats to something more akin to what the fluff says, I'd have applauded that as well if they just grandfathered all marines in at the same time instead of downgrading the ones we already had.
Anyone who doesn't think that this isn't the end of original marine development in favor of numarines is kidding themselves. How many new knightly orders, the previous elite followers of sigmar, has the empire, the supposed land of sigmar, faction gotten since the sigmarines came out? Ten years from now, pure old marines will be about as comprehensively supported as the SOB have been since 3rd edition. That said, I'm simply *poof* making my old marines turn into numarines with a wave of my hand. If the rules say that you must use 32mm bases for numarines then I'll jury rig a conversion.
Yep, pretty much this. I would have definitely preferred these just being an updated models (perhaps with some new gear like you said) rather than completely new type of marine. It will be a horrible fluff and rule mess.
Nevertheless, the models are amazing, and I will probably be retiring my current marines in favour of them, like I retired my Dark Angels ages ago. It's a bit sad, as I've put so much time and effort in them, but I really cannot see myself to continue using the old models once these new superior ones will be available.
I honestly dont recall the full fluff defenitly over the top hype of them being "NEW and BETTER" but never as a full on replacements
its possible fluff wise its just a simple gene seed add on from a freshly cracked primearch that allows them to be a bit more roided up. or perhaps its an updated black carapace that only works with this new mark armor. its gona be really hard to fluff out why the guns are only on them though.
If it were just a model scale/asthetics change and a moderate fluff change (new Mk X armor and new pattern bolter!), I'd be fine with it. It's the fluff replacement of Adeptus Astartes with Adeptus Restartes that bothers me the most as it was unnecessary. I've dealt with the switch from monopose 2nd edition plastics and hybrid plastic/metals to 3rd edition omnimarine kit to specialized class plastic kits (like all plastic devs) to specialized variants for each chapter.. and I didn't bat an eyelash at any of them (and most I applauded at the time regardless if my own models were being replaced). Changing the fluff to officially make the original marines like an Iphone 4 in an 6S universe was completely unnecessary. If they wanted to improve marine stats to something more akin to what the fluff says, I'd have applauded that as well if they just grandfathered all marines in at the same time instead of downgrading the ones we already had.
Anyone who doesn't think that this isn't the end of original marine development in favor of numarines is kidding themselves. How many new knightly orders, the previous elite followers of sigmar, has the empire, the supposed land of sigmar, faction gotten since the sigmarines came out? Ten years from now, pure old marines will be about as comprehensively supported as the SOB have been since 3rd edition. That said, I'm simply *poof* making my old marines turn into numarines with a wave of my hand. If the rules say that you must use 32mm bases for numarines then I'll jury rig a conversion.
Yep, pretty much this. I would have definitely preferred these just being an updated models (perhaps with some new gear like you said) rather than completely new type of marine. It will be a horrible fluff and rule mess.
Nevertheless, the models are amazing, and I will probably be retiring my current marines in favour of them, like I retired my Dark Angels ages ago. It's a bit sad, as I've put so much time and effort in them, but I really cannot see myself to continue using the old models once these new superior ones will be available.
I honestly dont recall the full fluff defenitly over the top hype of them being "NEW and BETTER" but never as a full on replacements
its possible fluff wise its just a simple gene seed add on from a freshly cracked primearch that allows them to be a bit more roided up. or perhaps its an updated black carapace that only works with this new mark armor. its gona be really hard to fluff out why the guns are only on them though.
New tech, limited production numbers, they're sized for larger bodies (I'm sure Silas Albrec could use one though since he's an Ogryn sized Marine), ect, ect.
Also they seem to just be larger bolters loaded with Kraken rounds...not really that impressive honestly.
warboss wrote: If it were just a model scale/asthetics change and a moderate fluff change (new Mk X armor and new pattern bolter!), I'd be fine with it. It's the fluff replacement of Adeptus Astartes with Adeptus Restartes that bothers me the most as it was unnecessary.
It's more or less the same as the change from Empire -> Stormcast Eternals - "They're elite troops reinforcing your beleaguered armies...!" but really your beleaguered army is being gracefully phased out.
It's OK to be bummed about it, I'm pretty attached to existing marines with their quirky permanent squat and weird proportions, but in time I'm sure I'll think about my current models the way I think about my old metal marines, or the first, shoddy mk.7 plastics, etc.
There will be an almost infinite amount of models on eBay already and yet to be added in future years, for those who want to stick to current aesthetic. Collectors, hoarders, overstocked retailers, that dude who buys ten of every box to sit on for some reason who just got burnt bigtime, secondhand models... there'll be no shortage should you not want the new hotness and Geedubs stop making them. Heck, if you can buy unused RTB01 marines still...
I have had this issue for years. I use circa 1989 models for my marine army. They are all pewter models. I look at more modern models and say they would look out of place in my army. So, if I need a new squad, I almost always hunt down the rogue trader era models to fill out my marine force.
I'm going to disagree. It reeks of "I don't like it therefore it must be stupid and bad".
While many are assuming that the Primaris is a replacement for regular Marines, I do want to point out that we know something about these new model kits:
They don't have all the same options as regular Marines.
We also know that the troop choice gets no special or heavy weapons.
This means there will be things that these new Marines will not be able to do. A lack of tactical flexibility brought about due to a lack of wargear. This will make them less appealing to most people as a whole chapter (unless there is some especially kick ass lore to go with some of these new chapters)
Now perhaps in 5 years or so they may repack the box and change that but it's still 2017, not 2022, we can worry about them phasing out regular Astartes in the future.
Furthermore, we have lore that has been released that some chapters will view these new Marines with suspicion. I can imagine those who trace their lineage back to Caliban would be at the top of that list because they'd see these new interlopers as an attempt to insert eyes into their chapter that don't belong there.
Similarly I'm certain that factions like the Inquisition wouldn't be too keen on seeing anyone, a Primarch or not, mucking about with the Emperor's designs. I mean this is a galaxy that still uses a form of quill to write things with likely because the ball point pen is to heretical. "New Marines" won't be something seen positively by most that's for sure.
Likewise these new Marines don't have the cultural indoctrination of the legions that founded them. Can you imagine the ones seconded to the Iron Hands, even with Ferrus' geneseed, suddenly cutting off their hands and adopting a "make everything augment" mindset? What about the ones given to the Salamanders, who weren't yet altered by the radiation of their homeworld? Can you imagine being told that you share the geneseed with beings that have a branding fetish and run around with coal black skin and glowing red eyes? If regular humans are freaked out by that, I can only imagine the revulsion from the Primaris marines would only get worse thanks to the sort of mindset that Marines have programmed into them.
What about being given over to a chapter with roots in Baal? Surprise, you're now a vampire who has to fight against the twin threats of the desire to drink blood/eat flesh and go crazy and think you're Sanguinius himself fighting his way through Horus' ship.
Welcome to the Space Wolves! Don't worry, they're not actually furries you're related to, just a tiny mutation that makes some of them turn into literal viking werewolves!
The tensions are going to be high for both sides of this issue and if it doesn't start conflicts in the setting I'd be amazed at the lost opportunities.
So if anything these new Marines set us up for rising tensions between different chapters and possibly snap the Imperium like Bane breaking Batman's back.
Which is good. Humanity's darkest hour only grows darker when it can't even manage to stand united against it's foes.
BrotherGecko wrote: You are a very optimistic person (a good quality) but there is no way old space marines are making it past 2 years. Why would GW even bother producing models that people are not going to be buying? The shelf life of old space marines will be equal to the rate in which new marines can be produced. I think its going to be barely more than a year before old space marines are taking up a tiny portion of store space and you have to order most stuff in store to get them. But that is me.
Reboots are super in right now to appeal to new audiences. Space Marines just got their first reboot since.. Rogue Trader I believe.
Will GW be replacing moulds when they wear down? Especially as they have sold most of sales they will be getting in their life time in many cases.
warboss wrote: If it were just a model scale/asthetics change and a moderate fluff change (new Mk X armor and new pattern bolter!), I'd be fine with it. It's the fluff replacement of Adeptus Astartes with Adeptus Restartes that bothers me the most as it was unnecessary.
1) I agree with this statement.
2) I'm stealing the term "Adeptus Restartes".
Best summation of my sentiments as well.
I will calling them Adeptus Restartes too.
To the idea that they are not completely the same and thus old marines will stay. You are missing the point. Its a complete reboot of the idea down to how they are structured. They couldn't do that with old marines because people would be even more livid that they have to somehow restructure their load outs.
Make no mistake this is a complete reboot on everything that is a space marine.
Maybe Mephiston will get stats like he did in 5th. That would make him reasonable next to the spacecasts. And a big psychiced up model. And a bunch of psychic attacks that cause mortal wounds. And a rule that means if you roll a 2+ at that start of the game you win automatically.
So something kinda funny I realized about the Nu-marines. It's stated that any Nu-marines sent to a existing chapter are still made from the same geneseed. This means they have been makeing nu-marines for chapters from a small amount of their geneseed tilith. Their are a few chapters like the Astra Charcadons and Black Dragons who are oviouesly mutated by keep passing in pure geneseed. Implied they are steeling or takeing it from loyalist or recently tratior chapters they fight. That is why they keep passing in pure geneseed. Does this mean.... that nu-mairnes who show up will be the red-headed step children of the chapter?
"Yeah.... This normal looking Nu-marine is TOTALLY one of us!"
timd wrote: So, the new Death Guard green paint in a spray can?
Wow I count like 6-7 bells! What are they the new "skull"?
The starter kit Deathguard may come on a green sprue (and the Ultras on a blue sprue). GW has really gotten into using color coded sprues in starter sets. Of course, it could also be the new Deathguard Green is spray form.
Also, bells are kind of Nurgles thing. Take a look at the Putrid Blightkings.
Bull0 wrote: It's more or less the same as the change from Empire -> Stormcast Eternals - "They're elite troops reinforcing your beleaguered armies...!" but really your beleaguered army is being gracefully phased out.
It's OK to be bummed about it, I'm pretty attached to existing marines with their quirky permanent squat and weird proportions, but in time I'm sure I'll think about my current models the way I think about my old metal marines, or the first, shoddy mk.7 plastics, etc.
There's actually been no indication that the Empire models that haven't already been phased out (i.e knights and militia) are going anywhere, so by that comparison the old marines will still be around indefinitely.
timd wrote: So, the new Death Guard green paint in a spray can?
Wow I count like 6-7 bells! What are they the new "skull"?
The starter kit Deathguard may come on a green sprue (and the Ultras on a blue sprue). GW has really gotten into using color coded sprues in starter sets. Of course, it could also be the new Deathguard Green is spray form.
Also, bells are kind of Nurgles thing. Take a look at the Putrid Blightkings.
That's always possible, but it does look like a gravel flocked base that's been sprayed.
kestral wrote: If they do interesting fluff on the tension between Adeputs Restartes and the old line space marines I'll be more cool with the addition.
Agreed.
Still not sure how I feel. Spent the last 2 years building up Blood Angels, and I do like the models. But what's going to happen? Will the chapters cease making traditional marines and convert to the new formula? I find this unlikely.
It could blossom into a guardsman - Ogryn concept as that would be more natural.
And interesting to note, but I don't think that anyone has drawn attention to the fact that this is, in almost every way, a repeat of the great crusade. Think about how 1 man, RG, is delivering relief and empowered soldiers to worlds once conquered. How these marines, born from Geneseed of brothers they never knew, are being reunited.
Honestly, there's a bit of nostalgia buried beneath the shock...
Edit: plus, what about the horus heresy line? We don't honestly believe that entire line is being discontinued do we, along side their best selling line of models in 20 years?
It just doesn't make sense, so I'm not buying in.
At one time all Marines were beakies. Then Mark Copplestone made Death Eagle Marines and now everything since then has been modelled on them. (Though slowly growing in size.) The Mk numbers were retconned to explain the difference between the then new Marines and the old beakies. See, it's happened before. New Mk armour for some new Marines, YMMV and all that.
What would take real balls is to reset all the chapters. The chapters you know and love today were just the studio's chapters with, WAIT FOR IT, no special rules! Viking themed Space Marines, yes please? Werewolf Marines, no thank you! And while I'm sure all our favs will still exist, I can see GW dialling back the insanity of Blood Angels and Space Wolves recreating the Underworld movie franchise.
Heads and shoulder pads are the only things you can use from earlier Mks of Marines...except original beakies, which had integral shoulder pads.
timd wrote: So, the new Death Guard green paint in a spray can?
Wow I count like 6-7 bells! What are they the new "skull"?
The starter kit Deathguard may come on a green sprue (and the Ultras on a blue sprue). GW has really gotten into using color coded sprues in starter sets. Of course, it could also be the new Deathguard Green is spray form.
Also, bells are kind of Nurgles thing. Take a look at the Putrid Blightkings.
Yea but I somehow doubt they will be supplying us with deathguard green basing sand.
ClockworkZion wrote: Frankly I'm hoping the Primaris Marines and all they imply lead to a splintering of the Imperium and locking the setting into a new civil war while it's being torn into by threats by all sides.
I mean from the fluff alone the Inquisition will likely not be able to calm their exterminatus button fingers over the idea that a "mere" Primarch tampered with the Emperor's work the way he did.
So basically the Imperium gets broken into subfactions with everyone claiming to be the side that actually follows the Emperor's vision, more Primarchs come back and the infighting gets messier.
Also I wonder if RG will bother to update his Codex so everyone gets a clean copy of what it should read instead of the incomplete ones that currently exist. And of course I look forward to the chaos that causes as well.
Basically, if GW does this right, I don't even know if the Emperor's return could save the Imperium.
And that's kind of awesome.
This is something that we will see in the first few books that have these Marines in them.
ClockworkZion wrote: Wonder if we'll be seeing a new Green Spray to go with the new Plague Marine models since this is a brighter green than the current Caliban Green.
That or they used an airbrush to base coat the model.
Remember that the gift guide back in December had a new green, tied to Death Guard.
I think it was a Base called "Death Guard Green"? Might be wrong on the name, but it never saw a release.
I would be shocked if there was not a spray release. Retributor Gold spray came really quick after the Stormcast and the starter set.
Also, bells are kind of Nurgles thing. Take a look at the Putrid Blightkings.
I'd rather look at the past three decades of Death Guard models and note that not a single one of them has a bell.
Possibly because this guy appears to have stolen them all
Yea I always liked the bells as an addition to nurgle stuff in artwork and I even used the zombie kit bells on some of my stuff, but holy crap there is such a thing as too much. Luckily you can snip 6 out of 7 of them off easily.
ClockworkZion wrote: Wonder if we'll be seeing a new Green Spray to go with the new Plague Marine models since this is a brighter green than the current Caliban Green.
That or they used an airbrush to base coat the model.
Remember that the gift guide back in December had a new green, tied to Death Guard.
I think it was a Base called "Death Guard Green"? Might be wrong on the name, but it never saw a release.
I would be shocked if there was not a spray release. Retributor Gold spray came really quick after the Stormcast and the starter set.
warboss wrote: If it were just a model scale/asthetics change and a moderate fluff change (new Mk X armor and new pattern bolter!), I'd be fine with it. It's the fluff replacement of Adeptus Astartes with Adeptus Restartes that bothers me the most as it was unnecessary.
1) I agree with this statement.
2) I'm stealing the term "Adeptus Restartes".
Spoiler:
Carlovonsexron wrote:seconded. adpetus restartes is pure genius.
Gamgee wrote:Hahah Adeptus Restartes yep that is definitely what I'll call them from now on too.
BrotherGecko wrote:Best summation of my sentiments as well.
I will calling them Adeptus Restartes too.
Lol, thanks guys. Feel free as I put it out there since it sums up succinctly what they are in practice IMO just like sigmarines did with AOS.
What ever happened to the rumors of other Primarchs waking up and the idea of one loyalist and one traitor switching sides? Are these still viable rumors? Are they going to help solidify the new plot that the next edition and boxed game brings in?
I would have expected a faster rollout considering we're already moving toward a new boxed game which will no doubt take up multiple months and the entire Death Guard release likely eating up a great deal of the remainder of the year.
People really complained that the Imdomintus Crusade is like the great crusade? No. I can't believe- I won't believe that people will try to hate it that much for no reason.
Guilliman is taking what he can, and doing what he can, that is all.
Kanluwen wrote: Remember that the gift guide back in December had a new green, tied to Death Guard.
I think it was a Base called "Death Guard Green"? Might be wrong on the name, but it never saw a release.
Yes. It was Deathguard Green according to this PICTURE.
Bull0 wrote: It's more or less the same as the change from Empire -> Stormcast Eternals - "They're elite troops reinforcing your beleaguered armies...!" but really your beleaguered army is being gracefully phased out.
It's OK to be bummed about it, I'm pretty attached to existing marines with their quirky permanent squat and weird proportions, but in time I'm sure I'll think about my current models the way I think about my old metal marines, or the first, shoddy mk.7 plastics, etc.
There's actually been no indication that the Empire models that haven't already been phased out (i.e knights and militia) are going anywhere, so by that comparison the old marines will still be around indefinitely.
And cannons, mortars nearly every named character. Building a good 8th edition empire army is impossible without paying 2-3 times the old retail price for a bunch of stuff on eBay.
Now image WHEN this happens to the marine range. Yes you can still buy a marine army but all the rhino hull based tanks are gone, as are assualt marines and all your characters. But look at these shiney NU-Marines, yes why don't you play these instead, they get a new release every few weeks!
It doesn't matter how many times GW say it won't happen, because they lied to us about the fantasy range. Nobody will believe them, we know it will happen.
Bull0 wrote: It's more or less the same as the change from Empire -> Stormcast Eternals - "They're elite troops reinforcing your beleaguered armies...!" but really your beleaguered army is being gracefully phased out.
It's OK to be bummed about it, I'm pretty attached to existing marines with their quirky permanent squat and weird proportions, but in time I'm sure I'll think about my current models the way I think about my old metal marines, or the first, shoddy mk.7 plastics, etc.
^ this...though I still expect to see Freeguild (Empire) make a return.
Bull0 wrote: It's more or less the same as the change from Empire -> Stormcast Eternals - "They're elite troops reinforcing your beleaguered armies...!" but really your beleaguered army is being gracefully phased out.
It's OK to be bummed about it, I'm pretty attached to existing marines with their quirky permanent squat and weird proportions, but in time I'm sure I'll think about my current models the way I think about my old metal marines, or the first, shoddy mk.7 plastics, etc.
There's actually been no indication that the Empire models that haven't already been phased out (i.e knights and militia) are going anywhere, so by that comparison the old marines will still be around indefinitely.
And cannons, mortars nearly every named character. Building a good 8th edition empire army is impossible without paying 2-3 times the old retail price for a bunch of stuff on eBay.
Now image WHEN this happens to the marine range. Yes you can still buy a marine army but all the rhino hull based tanks are gone, as are assualt marines and all your characters. But look at these shiney NU-Marines, yes why don't you play these instead, they get a new release every few weeks!
It doesn't matter how many times GW say it won't happen, because they lied to us about the fantasy range. Nobody will believe them, we know it will happen.
Pretty much right on the money. It's just a matter of time before the Astartes go the way of the dodo, replaced by their newer counterparts. I don't think GW is going about this in the right way at all, but expectations weren't exactly high... They want to have a proper reboot to bring in new blood, but they're too scared they'll end up with another Age of Sigmar situation and lose their player base. I guess a half-measure was the best they could come up with to keep the suits happy?
Kanluwen wrote: Remember that the gift guide back in December had a new green, tied to Death Guard.
I think it was a Base called "Death Guard Green"? Might be wrong on the name, but it never saw a release.
Yes. It was Deathguard Green according to this PICTURE.
Thanks, Ghaz. I had one of the gift guides but can't find it--otherwise I would have just posted a picture.
This here is why focusing too much on the fluff can be detrimental to your and the people around you's mental health. I don't give one goddam about who's weapons can kill who or what fat people can run where or whatever bullgak FAAC players keep pulling out to impose OUR reality's rules on a setting where giant daemons can explode out of a guy's head because he thunk too hard.
The models are cool and the rules seem fine. If they perform well on the tabletop('oh but they'll be powercreeped to make you buy them!' GW doesn't know how to play warhammer well enough to do that on purpose.) I could give a fat gak what the background is and I'm better off for it.
You said it bub!
Exactly how I feel about the models and the game. One exalt for you.
The question arises: will they accept Primaris Marines? They don't get Centurions, and I feel like DA and SW will hate the Primaris Marines ( though I'm not sure about the SW.) Though, if the BA are getting killed off, they may not have much of a choice. The Primaris will look good with a few BA bits; maybe add the Saguinary Death Masks on them, to make them look special. But would they also have P-Marine Death Company? So many questions
Lady Atia Mod Jonathan Campbell • 3 hours ago
Are you sure they aren't getting Centurions, Storm Talons or Cataphractii Terminators with 8th ?
Bull0 wrote: It's more or less the same as the change from Empire -> Stormcast Eternals - "They're elite troops reinforcing your beleaguered armies...!" but really your beleaguered army is being gracefully phased out.
It's OK to be bummed about it, I'm pretty attached to existing marines with their quirky permanent squat and weird proportions, but in time I'm sure I'll think about my current models the way I think about my old metal marines, or the first, shoddy mk.7 plastics, etc.
There's actually been no indication that the Empire models that haven't already been phased out (i.e knights and militia) are going anywhere, so by that comparison the old marines will still be around indefinitely.
And cannons, mortars nearly every named character. Building a good 8th edition empire army is impossible without paying 2-3 times the old retail price for a bunch of stuff on eBay.
Now image WHEN this happens to the marine range. Yes you can still buy a marine army but all the rhino hull based tanks are gone, as are assualt marines and all your characters. But look at these shiney NU-Marines, yes why don't you play these instead, they get a new release every few weeks!
It doesn't matter how many times GW say it won't happen, because they lied to us about the fantasy range. Nobody will believe them, we know it will happen.
I mean, the Empire kits that were phased out were either finecast or metal, or really really old. The Marine range doesn't have the same issues, most of it being plastic (and a lot of the plastics being relatively new still).
Me too, but I guess this is all we will get to know about this for a while. It looks like FW/BL's meeting for the ending of the HH, Laurie J. Goulding mentioned a few months ago, was an important one
I'm fully on board with retconning some things to allow more primarchs to return. I am one of those with that opinion. They're really cool, and are what drew me to the hobby to begin with.
Rippy wrote: I'm not sure this is an 8th edition rumour guys
It is Rippy, she teases a future 40k event for Blood Angels
"After a brutal campaign in the Cryptus System fighting the alien tyranids, Lord Dante returns to Baal to marshal the entire Blood Angels Chapter and their Successors against Hive Fleet Leviathan. Thus begins the greatest conflict in the history of the sons of Sanguinius. Despite a valiant battle in the void around Baal, the Blood Angels are unable to stop the tyranids drawing ever closer, but their petitions for reinforcements are met with dread news. The Cadian Gate, the Imperium’s most stalwart bastion against Chaos, has fallen. In their darkest hour, no help will reach the beleaguered Dante and his warriors. Is this truly then the Time of Ending?"
Cephalobeard wrote: I'm fully on board with retconning some things to allow more primarchs to return. I am one of those with that opinion. They're really cool, and are what drew me to the hobby to begin with.
And here I've said the opposite: that GW needs to kill off more primarchs in the Horus Heresy to give the story more weight at depth. It used to be that primarchs fighting one another meant somebody died. Horus/Sanguinius. Ferrus/Fulgrim, Guilliman/Alpharius, Guilliman/Fulgrim.
The novel series reduced primarch fights to fan service. The Japanese schoolgirl panty shot of 30K. Everyone has a nice tussle, and then it gets broken up and they live to fight another day.
The Horus Heresy would do well to kill off some of the "expendable" primarchs at Terra who don't factor into any important later events. Lorgar, Mortarion, Khaaaaaan, Corax come to mind. I'd include Vulkan, but really, bored of him dying and coming back over and over, lol.
There's always been a line of thinking that Sanguinius' "soul" didn't perish with his body, and that's what the Sanguinor represents, so, given the Imperium has now got a handle on better gene forge tech and RG has apparently had a nice chat with his dad, there's a plausible narrative to bring him back.
Whether it's the right thing or not, is a different argument.
Once they start saying primarchs that died didn't actually die, you can be sure we're off the deep end of the creativity for the setting.
I'm sure the retcons will be totally respectful of what makes 40k interesting as a setting for a wargame, and won't at all be a sanitising and homogenising of the various story elements for practical marketing purposes...
Rippy wrote: I'm not sure this is an 8th edition rumour guys
It is Rippy, she teases a future 40k event for Blood Angels
"After a brutal campaign in the Cryptus System fighting the alien tyranids, Lord Dante returns to Baal to marshal the entire Blood Angels Chapter and their Successors against Hive Fleet Leviathan. Thus begins the greatest conflict in the history of the sons of Sanguinius. Despite a valiant battle in the void around Baal, the Blood Angels are unable to stop the tyranids drawing ever closer, but their petitions for reinforcements are met with dread news. The Cadian Gate, the Imperium’s most stalwart bastion against Chaos, has fallen. In their darkest hour, no help will reach the beleaguered Dante and his warriors. Is this truly then the Time of Ending?"
Greatest conflict in the history of the sons of Sanguinius? Are they retconning out the Horus Heresy sections back when Blood Angel legion strength was above that of all the current successor chapters combined and they helped defend the Holy Terra from Horus' final assault (and lost their primarch as a consequence of that desperate gambit)? So I guess now that's not good enough, huh, GW?
LightKing wrote: Wait a second people are hating on the Indomitus Crusade
why? we havn't even learned anything about it yet?
1- GW covered it today.
2- The misuse of this trope is mainly why there have been complaints about it. We know a fair bit from the article today and the video from a couple of weeks ago.
Once they start saying primarchs that died didn't actually die, you can be sure we're off the deep end of the creativity for the setting.
I'm sure the retcons will be totally respectful of what makes 40k interesting as a setting for a wargame, and won't at all be a sanitising and homogenising of the various story elements for practical marketing purposes...
Well with soul magic and the likes i wouldnt mind if some of the super dead primarchs came back in some specific ways like some bs eldar soul stone nonsense or they poked at dad and her burped out sanguinuses soul that proceded to take over some notable blood angle guy and now he IS Sanguinious.
maybe trollzian makes a deal to release his pokeball primarch and girlyman sets out of his adventures in joto to catch all the primarchmons.
i honestly have no issue with it.
40k story is already ridiculous as it is so whats the worse that can happen.
It does give off the impression that the Blood Angels are being set up for something and I honestly can see Sanguinius come back. Now THAT is a Primarch I would gladly follow. Maybe he will become the leader for the Imperium trapped on the other side of the rift. They need a leader too right? Can totally see this.
But please PLEASE I hope they will not literally retcon everything to basically say the fight never happened. I hate it when lore is destroyed to justify something new. Just have the Emperor burst him into being again like he does with Celestine or something. I have faith GW can do something cool with it.
Besides if it means we get a model for him. He is the literal representation of an angel, I neeeeed it.
NoggintheNog wrote: The whole premise of the blood angels is a chapter that lives every day with the repercussions of the death of their primarch.
Everything about them, including the very way the chapter is organized, revolves around it.
If he is not dead, then no death company, no mephiston, no sanguinary priests, nothing.
The Red Thirst remains. The Black Rage is the result of the psychic backlash when he died. All the blood and vampire motifs have nothing to do with Sanguinius' death, or at least can continue to be justified within the context of ongoing changes.
The BA have flirted with a fall to chaos before, if it's Sanguinius that turns I'd actually quite like that.
This can turn out to be a really interesting concept. Yes, seriously
Lets be honest, not knowing what happens at the Battle for Terra makes the ending of the Horus Heresy - first told in a story by Bill King in White Dwarf and the Wargame series HH game if I remember correctly - an unknown event for the first time in about 25 years (1992?).
It doesnt mean Sanguinius doesnt die. There are a lot of possibilties, really cool ones too. I'm looking forward to this and what it will mean for Blood Angels in 40k
LightKing wrote: wait isn't the Sanguiniur rumored to be Sanguinius soul?
Yes. There are lots of feasible ways for him to "return" that don't entirely "undermine" the past. Moving forward is good.
eldar litterally did a thing for gulliman, cant see why they wont do a thing for sanguiniouses soul which i would assume since it wasnt destroyed is with the big E. i cant wait to see some strange eldar sanguin hybrid thing.
I can live with the Sanguinor being the Spirit of Sanguinus. Even reviving for X means all the Primarchs. Yeah, its scrapping the deep end of the barrel...
But retconing this?!
Spoiler:
How can they live with that?
I suppose that they aren't gonna Retcon to bring Ollanius Pius back, no?
This is what happens when space marine fans drink the Kool-aid. Now we have 30k MK2. I think I'm going to quit playing 40k and just go to Age of Sigmar for a few years until you either work this out or they start making super Primarch and I know the 40k I loved is dead in the gutter for a thinly veiled 30k in modern times.
This is not 40k anymore. It's not even 41k or advancing the plot. It's going backwards in time to the same 30k gak. It's only a matter of time until they make an Emperor model and chaos gods too. This setting is officially jumping the shark.
Gamgee wrote: This is what happens when space marine fans drink the Kool-aid. Now we have 30k MK2. I think I'm going to quit playing 40k and just go to Age of Sigmar for a few years until you either work this out or they start making super Primarch and I know the 40k I loved is dead in the gutter for a thinly veiled 30k in modern times.
Bringing Sanguinius back doesn't mean undoing the effects of his death. His death happened, and it's still imprinted upon the blood angels. Maybe one of his tasks can be helping them get over it (and coming to terms with it himself).
Gamgee wrote: This is what happens when space marine fans drink the Kool-aid. Now we have 30k MK2. I think I'm going to quit playing 40k and just go to Age of Sigmar for a few years until you either work this out or they start making super Primarch and I know the 40k I loved is dead in the gutter for a thinly veiled 30k in modern times.
You said this weeks ago....
I believe Gamgee is like a smoker; he "quits" 40k between each battle/painting session.
There will be many people claiming to quit, we will see most of them around here after 8th drops.
There is also the fact that every Primarch is an engineered being and the guy who made them is technically still around, there's really no reason they couldn't be rebuilt any more than one couldn't make another car if the first one got written off.
Gamgee wrote: This is what happens when space marine fans drink the Kool-aid. Now we have 30k MK2. I think I'm going to quit playing 40k and just go to Age of Sigmar for a few years until you either work this out or they start making super Primarch and I know the 40k I loved is dead in the gutter for a thinly veiled 30k in modern times.
You said this weeks ago....
I know but ripping of a band aid can be a slow painful process. 40k has so much meaning to me, and I keep hoping it will get better. Then every turn it just gets more like 30k.
Future War Cultist wrote: Bringing Sanguinius back doesn't mean undoing the effects of his death. His death happened, and it's still imprinted upon the blood angels. Maybe one of his tasks can be helping them get over it (and coming to terms with it himself).
Hell, it might even convince the Blood Angels to fight harder. Death is not the end for their Primarch, and their fury does not end with it either.
Once they start saying primarchs that died didn't actually die, you can be sure we're off the deep end of the creativity for the setting.
I'm sure the retcons will be totally respectful of what makes 40k interesting as a setting for a wargame, and won't at all be a sanitising and homogenising of the various story elements for practical marketing purposes...
Well with soul magic and the likes i wouldnt mind if some of the super dead primarchs came back in some specific ways like some bs eldar soul stone nonsense or they poked at dad and her burped out sanguinuses soul that proceded to take over some notable blood angle guy and now he IS Sanguinious.
maybe trollzian makes a deal to release his pokeball primarch and girlyman sets out of his adventures in joto to catch all the primarchmons.
i honestly have no issue with it.
40k story is already ridiculous as it is so whats the worse that can happen.
Just because you can - doesn't mean you should...
I'm being a bit negative about it, I'm sure it won't be that bad, but it's been a trend for GW for a long time. It stinks of business-oriented decision making
Gamgee wrote: This is what happens when space marine fans drink the Kool-aid. Now we have 30k MK2. I think I'm going to quit playing 40k and just go to Age of Sigmar for a few years until you either work this out or they start making super Primarch and I know the 40k I loved is dead in the gutter for a thinly veiled 30k in modern times.
You said this weeks ago....
I know but ripping of a band aid can be a slow painful process. 40k has so much meaning to me, and I keep hoping it will get better. Then every turn it just gets more like 30k.
No, ripping off a band aid is, by definition, a quick process. Otherwise you're not ripping it off.
Future War Cultist wrote: Bringing Sanguinius back doesn't mean undoing the effects of his death. His death happened, and it's still imprinted upon the blood angels. Maybe one of his tasks can be helping them get over it (and coming to terms with it himself).
Hell, it might even convince the Blood Angels to fight harder. Death is not the end for their Primarch, and their fury does not end with it either.
Rippy wrote: I will have a read through the rumors when I can, thanks Warhams-77!
You are welcome. Please be careful with any interpretations (including mine) in the OP, better just link to her article and her comments below. But it looks like a future Blood Angels campaign and some interesting related releases
Azreal13 wrote: There is also the fact that every Primarch is an engineered being and the guy who made them is technically still around, there's really no reason they couldn't be rebuilt any more than one couldn't make another car if the first one got written off.
The problem is not really bringing back Sanguinus. The problem is that Atia has basically confirmed that they are gonna retcon all the Emperor vs Horus battle. Why no real reason for that... maybe they wan't to revive Horus? Pf.
Once they start saying primarchs that died didn't actually die, you can be sure we're off the deep end of the creativity for the setting.
I'm sure the retcons will be totally respectful of what makes 40k interesting as a setting for a wargame, and won't at all be a sanitising and homogenising of the various story elements for practical marketing purposes...
Well with soul magic and the likes i wouldnt mind if some of the super dead primarchs came back in some specific ways like some bs eldar soul stone nonsense or they poked at dad and her burped out sanguinuses soul that proceded to take over some notable blood angle guy and now he IS Sanguinious.
maybe trollzian makes a deal to release his pokeball primarch and girlyman sets out of his adventures in joto to catch all the primarchmons.
i honestly have no issue with it.
40k story is already ridiculous as it is so whats the worse that can happen.
Just because you can - doesn't mean you should...
I'm being a bit negative about it, I'm sure it won't be that bad, but it's been a trend for GW for a long time. It stinks of business-oriented decision making
i just like the idea of primarchmon GO its mostly in jest but could be a goal for gulliman. edit: Bah mod warning sorry mate.
Azreal13 wrote: There is also the fact that every Primarch is an engineered being and the guy who made them is technically still around, there's really no reason they couldn't be rebuilt any more than one couldn't make another car if the first one got written off.
Well, if there absolutely needs to be Primarchs in 40K, I'd prefer them to be brand new creations, rather than all the guys who died/vanished ten thousand years ago suddenly and conveniently returning all at once.
Azreal13 wrote: There is also the fact that every Primarch is an engineered being and the guy who made them is technically still around, there's really no reason they couldn't be rebuilt any more than one couldn't make another car if the first one got written off.
The problem is not really bringing back Sanguinus. The problem is that Atia has basically confirmed that they are gonna retcon all the Emperor vs Horus battle. Why no real reason for that... maybe they wan't to revive Horus? Pf.
For the record, I'm fairly skeptical that Sanguinius will return, but not totally convinced it's impossible. It is, however, the most obvious thing to retcon. If the Emperor doesn't end up on the Golden Throne, that is literally the central core of the whole setting out the window, if Horus doesn't end up so utterly destroyed that his soul basically never existed, well, I guess there's scope to alter that to introduce the possibility of his return, but we've already got enough Horus clones (or rumoured ones) in the background that there's no need to change that to allow for it.
Most likely it'll just be changes to the order and occurrence of events that allows for better Black Library and GW/FW interactions and nothing materially changes in terms of the outcome.
Azreal13 wrote: There is also the fact that every Primarch is an engineered being and the guy who made them is technically still around, there's really no reason they couldn't be rebuilt any more than one couldn't make another car if the first one got written off.
Well, if there absolutely needs to be Primarchs in 40K, I'd prefer them to be brand new creations, rather than all the guys who died/vanished ten thousand years ago suddenly and conveniently returning all at once.
Yeah, but the souls of the dead ones will be returned to new bodies, thanks to a pact with Ynnead, even if that's the case.
LightKing wrote: Wait a second people are hating on the Indomitus Crusade
why? we havn't even learned anything about it yet?
1- GW covered it today.
2- The misuse of this trope is mainly why there have been complaints about it. We know a fair bit from the article today and the video from a couple of weeks ago.
Oh you, I just lost twenty minutes of my life and ended up reading about Stargate Atlantis.
Gamgee wrote:This is what happens when space marine fans drink the Kool-aid. Now we have 30k MK2. I think I'm going to quit playing 40k and just go to Age of Sigmar for a few years until you either work this out or they start making super Primarch and I know the 40k I loved is dead in the gutter for a thinly veiled 30k in modern times.
This is not 40k anymore. It's not even 41k or advancing the plot. It's going backwards in time to the same 30k gak. It's only a matter of time until they make an Emperor model and chaos gods too. This setting is officially jumping the shark.
I'm honestly thinking the same thing. May have to step away and come back once GW figures out what it wants this setting to be now. I've never wanted so badly for an Atia rumor to be false or misinterpreted. Nothing takes me out of a story faster than undoing a character's heroic sacrifice. It's why I stopped liking the Legend of Drizzt 2/3 of the way through.
Rippy wrote: I will have a read through the rumors when I can, thanks Warhams-77!
You are welcome. Please be careful with any interpretations (including mine) in the OP, better just link to her article and her comments below. But it looks like a future Blood Angels campaign and some interesting related releases
I have added it to the OP, can you please check to see if you are happy with what I added?
I'm personally torn about primarchs returning, numarines, etc... it has the potential, with good writing (?), to create an interesting narrative for new players and some older ones. That said, it is starting to lose some of what I liked most about the setting. The fact that all these primarchs died in the heresy or shortly afterwards defined much of the present, and it's also what made the HH era feel so epic. You were reading about a history and beings no longer in the present, and a lost golden age that is not returning.
I have added it to the OP, can you please check to see if you are happy with what I added?
Yes, thanks, Rippy
GoatboyBeta wrote: Man if only Vampires and Angles had a history in popular culture of coming back from the dead this whole Sanguinius thing would be much simpler.
Hmmmm what if... (we all love this game don't we ^_~)
Chaos gods pieced Horus's should together though the pieces of his humanity are now gone. Over 10,000 years they developed the perfect Chaos.... King... For a king of chaos he would be. The only entities greater than him are the God's of Chaos themselves. Daemon Princes bow, and Abbadon quakes. It turns out that the creation of the giant rift splitting the Imperium was actually caused by the revival of this being. Of this King of Chaos.
Now, the other sleeping primarchs are rising. Those not dead are coming out of hiding, those with a soul saved by the Emperor and pushed into a form to protect and say it's children. The emperor stirs in his seat and the Imperium feels the rumbles out to the fringes of the Galaxy.
All the while, a being trapped in the warp, greater than the Chaos gods stirs
There was a piece of fluff that stated that the armories of Mars and Terra held incredibly powerful equipment. Some of it new, some of it ancient. The doors to these armories are now opening.
The Primaris marines are part of that. Likely their new weapons (and rumored vehicles) will be new and powerful as well.
What I'm wondering is, will this be an excuse for more Heresy era tech to be shoehorned into the 40k universe when they do 8th edition rules for all the Forge World stuff? I collected a lot of Custodes. If I could get my hands on their jetbikes, dreadnoughts, grav tanks, and terminators I would be a happy camper.
Lysenis wrote: Hmmmm what if... (we all love this game don't we ^_~)
Chaos gods pieced Horus's should together though the pieces of his humanity are now gone. Over 10,000 years they developed the perfect Chaos.... King... For a king of chaos he would be. The only entities greater than him are the God's of Chaos themselves. Daemon Princes bow, and Abbadon quakes. It turns out that the creation of the giant rift splitting the Imperium was actually caused by the revival of this being. Of this King of Chaos.
Now, the other sleeping primarchs are rising. Those not dead are coming out of hiding, those with a soul saved by the Emperor and pushed into a form to protect and say it's children. The emperor stirs in his seat and the Imperium feels the rumbles out to the fringes of the Galaxy.
All the while, a being trapped in the warp, greater than the Chaos gods stirs
Sounds like Archeon the Everchosen, Grand Marshal of Chaos Undivided, decided to come to the future for a bit.
If AoS has teach me anything, is that the first year they will push to no end this new Primaris Marines and some kind of Chaos Antagonist, but after that they will began to do again good things like the lovely Kharadron Overlords!
cuda1179 wrote: There was a piece of fluff that stated that the armories of Mars and Terra held incredibly powerful equipment. Some of it new, some of it ancient. The doors to these armories are now opening.
The Primaris marines are part of that. Likely their new weapons (and rumored vehicles) will be new and powerful as well.
What I'm wondering is, will this be an excuse for more Heresy era tech to be shoehorned into the 40k universe when they do 8th edition rules for all the Forge World stuff? I collected a lot of Custodes. If I could get my hands on their jetbikes, dreadnoughts, grav tanks, and terminators I would be a happy camper.
I wouldn't say no to stuff that's inspired by or based on HH gear for the Primaris Marines, after all there mk-x armour seems to take quite a few cues from the mk-iv design. But I'd prefer not to get direct ports as it helps to keep the two era's distinct.
Galas wrote: If AoS has teach me anything, is that the first year they will push to no end this new Primaris Marines and some kind of Chaos Antagonist, but after that they will began to do again good things like the lovely Kharadron Overlords!
Its going to be interesting to see how much the Primaris and the new Death guard draw from the existing SM and CSM ranges. I have a LR, a Vindicator and a couple of Rhinos still in there boxes that could end up in either or neither force depending on how things go.
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you, I just lost twenty minutes of my life and ended up reading about Stargate Atlantis.
