I dont think its a diminishing return when tesla explodes on 4+, instead of 5+. Or if it cancels a -1 to hit.

 p5freak wrote:
I dont think its a diminishing return when tesla explodes on 4+, instead of 5+. Or if it cancels a -1 to hit.

Well it is. BS is already maxed at 2+ with +1 to hit, so now you only have the added tesla bonus, not the BS bonus. This is diminishing compared to going from +0 to +1 to hit.

If you need to cancel -1 to hit, then sure, go ahead.

Personally think its best used when using a brigade of 40 immortals.

MWBD on 2 10 man units. then the strat for lighting up for the remaining 4 x 5 man units

Some quick dice hammering shows:

Against a Knight(T8, 3+armor)
per 10x Tesla Immortals + MWBD: average 2.22 wounds

per 10x Tesla Immortals + MWBD + MD: average 3.33 wounds

Will take either 11 or 8 full units to take down a Knight (24 wounds) in a single turn.


Against Guard Heavy Weapons Squad NO cover, T3 5+:
per 10x Tesla Immortals + MWBD: average 8.89 wounds

per 10x Tesla Immortals + MWBD +MD: average 13.3

Against Guard Heavy Weapons Squad in cover T3 4+r:
per 10x Tesla Immortals + MWBD: average 6.67 wounds

per 10x Tesla Immortals + MWBD +MD: average 10

Will take 1 unit to kill one Unit (6 wounds per squad) of them.

 Draco765 wrote:
Some quick dice hammering shows:

Against a Knight(T8, 3+armor)
per 10x Tesla Immortals + MWBD: average 2.22 wounds

per 10x Tesla Immortals + MWBD + MD: average 3.33 wounds

Will take either 11 or 8 full units to take down a Knight (24 wounds) in a single turn.


Against Guard Heavy Weapons Squad NO cover, T3 5+:
per 10x Tesla Immortals + MWBD: average 8.89 wounds

per 10x Tesla Immortals + MWBD +MD: average 13.3

Against Guard Heavy Weapons Squad in cover T3 4+r:
per 10x Tesla Immortals + MWBD: average 6.67 wounds

per 10x Tesla Immortals + MWBD +MD: average 10

Will take 1 unit to kill one Unit (6 wounds per squad) of them.

How about mathhammer?

10 Tesla Immortals with -1 score an average of 10 hits, 3,333 wounds, 1,111 damage against a KEQ.
10 Tesla Immortals with +0 score an average of 20 hits, 6,666 wounds, 2,222 damage vs KEQ.
10 Tesla Immortals with +1 score an average of 30 hits, 10 wounds, 3,333 damage vs KEQ.
10 Tesla Immortals with +2 score an average of 36,667 hits, 12,222 hits, 4,074 damage vs KEQ.

5 Immortal Squads with +2 and one 8-man Immortal Squad with +1, all with re-roll 1s to wound *dmg by 7/6

7/6*(5*4,074+0,8*3,333)=26,876 damage vs KEQ

Assuming you have managed to deal one wound to a Castellan with a DDA and popped MD you can finish it off with your 58 Immortals if you have given 5 of the units MWBD and they are all within 6" of a LORD.

Your math against the HWT is also off.

Right, the math shows that you begin to see some diminishing returns with the Strat added to MWBD immortals.

I'm not saying it's useless, but it's not always worth the 2 CP. Just use it wisely.

 Werekill wrote:
Right, the math shows that you begin to see some diminishing returns with the Strat added to MWBD immortals.

I'm not saying it's useless, but it's not always worth the 2 CP. Just use it wisely.

Paying 2 CP to give 30 models +2 rather than +1 is as good as paying 1 CP to give 10 models +1 rather than +0.

For every +1 shot you get 9/6 hits, for every +2 shot you get 11/6 hits. So 2 CP with 30 models generates 2/6 extra hits per shot or 20 hits for 60 shots, while going from +0 to +1 generates 3/6 hits for 10 models or 10 extra hits for 20 shots.

So if you are planning on shooting 30 Immortals with +1 into a unit then adding that further +1 is just as amazing as using Phaeron's Will on a unit. It's not just good most of the time, it's an amazing Stratagem and only bad in the most rare of circumstances, like when your opponent is running some MSU crazyness with 0 durable units. These are some of the most effecient uses of CP in the game and if you are playing a list featuring lots of Tesla you ought to use them all the time. Of course everyone understands how amazing going from +0 to +1 or -1 to +0, but even +1 to +2 is amazing on Tesla.

Yeah, Tesla immortals with MWBD should be 3.33 against a Knight with 3+.

The most you could jack them up is 5.55 dmg, with +2 to hit, reroll 1 to wound and reroll 1 to hit.

 vict0988 wrote:

Paying 2 CP to give 30 models +2 rather than +1 is as good as paying 1 CP to give 10 models +1 rather than +0.

For every +1 shot you get 9/6 hits, for every +2 shot you get 11/6 hits. So 2 CP with 30 models generates 2/6 extra hits per shot or 20 hits for 60 shots, while going from +0 to +1 generates 3/6 hits for 10 models or 10 extra hits for 20 shots.

So if you are planning on shooting 30 Immortals with +1 into a unit then adding that further +1 is just as amazing as using Phaeron's Will on a unit. It's not just good most of the time, it's an amazing Stratagem and only bad in the most rare of circumstances, like when your opponent is running some MSU crazyness with 0 durable units. These are some of the most effecient uses of CP in the game and if you are playing a list featuring lots of Tesla you ought to use them all the time. Of course everyone understands how amazing going from +0 to +1 or -1 to +0, but even +1 to +2 is amazing on Tesla.

Your own numbers support me, and I'm not sure what you mean here. You say +1 -> +2 generates 20 extra hits per 60. You then say +0 -> +1 generates 10 per 20... That multiples out to 30 per 60 for +0 -> +1.

+0 -> +1 generates 1.5 times more hits than +1 -> +2. That's the definition of diminishing returns.

Without the Strat, you get 90 hits, and with it, you get 110 hits. 20 extra hits is nothing to sneeze at, but it still falls within diminishing returns. It's still a good stratagem, but it remains a fact to remain aware of.

Just know what applies to your particular situation and make the right choice.

 Werekill wrote:


Your own numbers support me, and I'm not sure what you mean here. You say +1 -> +2 generates 20 extra hits per 60. You then say +0 -> +1 generates 10 per 20... That multiples out to 30 per 60 for +0 -> +1.

+0 -> +1 generates 1.5 times more hits than +1 -> +2. That's the definition of diminishing returns.

Except Phareon's will only ever affects a single unit. So it doesn't multiply.to 30 per 60, it doesn't scale with the number of immortals you have.

vict0988 wrote:

It's not just good most of the time, it's an amazing Stratagem and only bad in the most rare of circumstances, like when your opponent is running some MSU crazyness with 0 durable units.

Are you considering any army that doesn't have a Castellan (generally out of reach of immortals turn 1 btw) "crazy MSU"? I don't see much in the meta that would need 30 immortals with +2 to hit to be killed. Maybe Magnus or Mortarion...

hortsmann wrote:

 Werekill wrote:


Your own numbers support me, and I'm not sure what you mean here. You say +1 -> +2 generates 20 extra hits per 60. You then say +0 -> +1 generates 10 per 20... That multiples out to 30 per 60 for +0 -> +1.

+0 -> +1 generates 1.5 times more hits than +1 -> +2. That's the definition of diminishing returns.

Except Phareon's will only ever affects a single unit. So it doesn't multiply.to 30 per 60, it doesn't scale with the number of immortals you have.

vict0988 wrote:

It's not just good most of the time, it's an amazing Stratagem and only bad in the most rare of circumstances, like when your opponent is running some MSU crazyness with 0 durable units.

Are you considering any army that doesn't have a Castellan (generally out of reach of immortals turn 1 btw) "crazy MSU"? I don't see much in the meta that would need 30 immortals with +2 to hit to be killed. Maybe Magnus or Mortarion...

I think your proplem is that you are addressing two answers to two different posts, one was a reply to the math of how much damage you can expect from Immortals, where I posted that 58 Immortals with all the bells and whistles will kill a Castellan instead of you needing 70 just to kill a normal Knight. The other was a reply to whether MD is an amazing Stratagem, so it's not that I was saying that you should just pick Sautekh to get MD for Castellans, the Castellan actually has little or nothing to do with why MD is amazing, since as you said most people will park it more than 29" from your Immortals. Castellans rarely come alone, while some use the little Knights to just get the 3 CP, taking a couple of medium Knights is also very popular because of the +6 CP, medium Knights being awesome MD targets, except when they have a 2+.

I lost a game with my Imotekh Zahndrekh Nightbringer list against Scions/Catachan/BA soup a couple of days ago. I tried switching a DDA and a couple of Immortals for the Nightbringer in my double Battalion list. The Nightbringer performed okay, but I deployed like crap, I deployed 2x10 Immortals on one side of the map with Obyron and Imotekh, planning on destroying my opponent's forces that were protecting an objective, thereby getting board control. I deployed one DDA and my Triarch Stalker right on the front line, completely forgetting about my opponent's ability to DS turn one despite playing him a week ago. ;y opponent went first despite me having the +1 and used a Stratagem I had forgotten about to get move before the first turn and get to one of my DDAs that was hiding far out of usual charge range for a BA smash Captain. In addition to deploying about as badly as possible I chose to Heroically Intervene with Zahndrekh, to deal a damage to his Priest? I think. Anyways, that ended with Zahndrekh being taken hostage. So I had lost two DDAs, a Triarch Stalker and 16 Immortals T1 and I had no way to shoot all the Scions which were in my Deployment Zone because my Veil of Darkness Overlord was too far away from Zahndrekh. The Nightbringer uses Cosmic Fire and it does okay, I charge and kill a couple of dudes in CC.

The Nightbringer was definitely an okay selection against my opponent, I don't think he was any better than a DDA though, which is problematic because I feel like the Nightbringer's only better matchup would be against Nids and Covens, which makes him a general downgrade for my list. I had a headache and I really should not have played a competitive game, I could not provide anything resembling a challenge because I played with no attention to detail, part of that was probably also me not taking my opponent's list seriously and forgetting that BA Strat. I should have put a DDA on one side of the field and I should have had all my HQs and Troops together instead of splitting them apart. I should not have heroically intervened, there was nothing to be gained and so much to be lost, I even got attacked by an HQ with a powerfist, luckily without dying but I did an amazing amount of stupid risk-taking.

Played the list below vs. Blood Angels with 1 Libby Dread, 3 Dreads, 2 Preds, and the rest Marines (incl. one Pod) mostly Primaris.
The game went really well. I'll started the game. Redeploying 3 units thanks to the Deceiver brought my army into good position. After three rounds the game was almost over, only the Pod and its delivered Marines were alive. Necrons is better than I thought.

Marines are squishy, they die like flies. Looks like your opponent wasnt very smart. Otherwise he would have killed your flyers by simply placing any unit in their path. Your flyers cant make its minimum move, or are forced to fly off the board.

 p5freak wrote:
Marines are squishy, they die like flies. Looks like your opponent wasnt very smart. Otherwise he would have killed your flyers by simply placing any unit in their path. Your flyers cant make its minimum move, or are forced to fly off the board.

No, the SM army was too small to prevent my flyers from minimum movement. In round 2, my army was already in his face.
Next time, I will replace the Cryptek by a Lord which allows reroll of wound rolls.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Marines are squishy, they die like flies. Looks like your opponent wasnt very smart. Otherwise he would have killed your flyers by simply placing any unit in their path. Your flyers cant make its minimum move, or are forced to fly off the board.

No, the SM army was too small to prevent my flyers from minimum movement. In round 2, my army was already in his face.
Next time, I will replace the Cryptek by a Lord which allows reroll of wound rolls.

I'd say for the list you have there, swapping the warriors for immortals, and then the cryptek for a cheap lord would be a strong improvement

 iGuy91 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Marines are squishy, they die like flies. Looks like your opponent wasnt very smart. Otherwise he would have killed your flyers by simply placing any unit in their path. Your flyers cant make its minimum move, or are forced to fly off the board.

No, the SM army was too small to prevent my flyers from minimum movement. In round 2, my army was already in his face.
Next time, I will replace the Cryptek by a Lord which allows reroll of wound rolls.

I'd say for the list you have there, swapping the warriors for immortals, and then the cryptek for a cheap lord would be a strong improvement

The Warriors worked pretty well.
I've put them in reserve and they appeared in round 2 supporting the gun line.

Jpr wrote:

Jpr wrote:
Thanks for all the advice guys. After some scarab drama I’ve ended up with this:

HQ1 : Imotekh the Stormlord [160] - WARLORD
HQ2: Overlord (84), Staff of Light (10) [94]

Troop1: 10 Immortals (80), 10 Tesla carbines (70) [150]
Troop2: 10 Immortals (80), 10 Tesla carbines (70) [150]
Troop3: 10 Immortals (80), 10 Tesla carbines (70) [150]

Elite1: Triarch Stalker (85), Twin heavy gauss cannon (40) [125]

Heavy Support 1: Doomsday Ark [160]
Heavy Support 2: Doomsday Ark [160]
Heavy Support 3: Doomsday Ark [160]

== Battalion == <Necrons>, <Sautekh> <690 points> <5> CP

HQ3: Overlord (84), Staff of Light (10) [94]
HQ4: Lord (65), Hyperphase sword(3) [68] Relic: Veil of Darkness

Troop4: 10 Immortals (80), 10 Tesla carbines (70) [150]
Troop5: 10 Immortals (80), 10 Tesla carbines (70) [150]
Troop6: 10 Immortals (80), 10 Tesla carbines (70) [150]

Fast Attack1: 3 Scarabs [39]
Fast Attack2: 3 Scarabs [39]

I don’t think the list is massively better than before but this one is 320 cheaper than pre-CA which counts for something... yeah it sucks vs 2+ and vs knights but nothing in the cron book is good against them apart from Serapteks.

Underestimation, not knowing what crons do and maybe a shift to infantry meta really help crons.

My first round draw is:

HQ: Company Commander (30) Las Pistol (0), Chainsword (0) [2 PL] [30pts] WARLORD – Grand Strategist
HQ: Company Commander (30) Las Pistol (0), Chainsword (0) [2 PL] [30pts] RELIC - Kurovs Aquila
HQ: Colonel Iron Hand Straken [4 PL] (75) = 75pts
TR: 10 Infantry Squad (40), 9 Lasguns (0), Laspistol (0), Chainsword (0) [3 PL] [40pts]
TR: 10 Infantry Squad (40), 9 Lasguns (0), Laspistol (0), Chainsword (0) [3 PL] [40pts]
TR: 10 Infantry Squad (40), 9 Lasguns (0), Laspistol (0), Chainsword (0) [3 PL] [40pts]
TR: 10 Infantry Squad (40), 9 Lasguns (0), Laspistol (0), Chainsword (0) [3 PL] [40pts]
TR: 10 Infantry Squad (40), 9 Lasguns (0), Laspistol (0), Chainsword (0) [3 PL] [40pts]
TR: 10 Infantry Squad (40), 9 Lasguns (0), Laspistol (0), Chainsword (0) [3 PL] [40pts]
EL : 1 Ministorum Priest (35), Las Pistol (0) [2 PL] [35pts]
EL : 1 Commissar (16), Las Pistol (0) [2 PL] [16pts]
EL : 1 Commissar (16), Las Pistol (0) [2 PL] [16pts]
FA : 1 Armoured Sentinel (30), Multilaser (5) [3 PL] [35pts]
FA : 1 Armoured Sentinel (30), Multilaser (5) [3 PL] [35pts]
FA : 1 Armoured Sentinel (30), Multilaser (5) [3 PL] [35pts]
HS : 3 Heavy Weapons Team (18), 3x Mortars (15) [3 PL] [33pts]
HS : 3 Heavy Weapons Team (18), 3x Mortars (15) [3 PL] [33pts]
HS : 3 Heavy Weapons Team (18), 3x Mortars (15) [3 PL] [33pts]
== Super Heavy Detachment == Imperial Knights, Krast [ 65PL, 1182pts] 6 CP
LOW : Knight Crusader (285) Avenger Gatling Cannon (75) Heavy Flamer (14) Rapid Fire Battle Cannon (100) 2 Heavy Stubbers (4)
Titanic Feet (0) EXALTED COURT WARLORD – Ion Bulwark RELIC – The Headsman's Mark [25 PL] [478pts]
LOW : Knight Gallant (285) Reaper Chainsword (30) Thunderstrike Gauntlet (35) Heavy Stubber (2) Titanic Feet (0) EXALTED
COURT WARLORD – Landstrider [20 PL] [352pts]
LOW : Knight Gallant (285) Reaper Chainsword (30) Thunderstrike Gauntlet (35) Heavy Stubber (2) Titanic Feet (0) KNIGHT
LANCE CHARACTER [20 PL] [352pts]
== Spearhead Detachment == Astra Militarum, Elysians [ 18PL, 172pts] 1 CP
HQ: Elysian Company Commander (40) Lasgun with Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (0), Krak Grenades (0) [3 PL] [40pts]
EL : 3 Elysian Sniper Squad (15), 3x Sniper Rifle (6), 3x Lasgun (0) [3 PL] [21pts]
EL : 3 Elysian Sniper Squad (15), 3x Sniper Rifle (6), 3x Lasgun (0) [3 PL] [21pts]
HS : 3 Elysian Heavy Weapons Team (15), 3x Mortars (15) [3 PL] [30pts]
HS : 3 Elysian Heavy Weapons Team (15), 3x Mortars (15) [3 PL] [30pts]
HS : 3 Elysian Heavy Weapons Team (15), 3x Mortars (15) [3 PL]

Ended up coming 17th/82 going 4-1. The missions were tough on the crons with fixed objectives. Won first game 13-7 vs 3 knights, beat talos/razorwing fighters 16-4, beat knight soup 19-1, lost to deathwatch and guard 18-2 (bad luck and bad terrain for me :() and best knight and guard soup 16-4

I'm curious, what on earth did you do to win against 3 knight lists?

drakerocket wrote:
I'm curious, what on earth did you do to win against 3 knight lists?

I was thinking the same thing

I'd love to hear a synopsis of what you ended up doing to win the matches etc. Always like to hear about us doing well!

This Necron list apparently got 4th place at a tournament, Goldensprue cup GT (dunno how big that is):

Sautekh Battalion

Immotekh, Warlord
Cloaktek, Veil of Darkness

3x Tesla Immortals

7 Tomb Blades /w Tesla, 6 shieldvanes
7 Tomb Blades /w Telsa, 5 shieldvanes

3x DDA

Nihalakh Super-heavy Aux detachment

Seraptek Heavy Construct

Sources:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/aiblk1/pandas_weekend_rundown/
https://imgur.com/a/z9yUhqd


Automatically Appended Next Post:


And another one 6th place at Siege of Augusta:

Sautekh Battalion

Immotekh, Warlord
Lord /w Veil of Darkness

3x 10 Tesla Immortals

Triach Stalker /w Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

2x 3 scarabs

6x Destroyers

Sautekh Spearhead

Cryptek /w Chronometron, Abyssal Staff

5x Wraiths

3x DDA

https://imgur.com/a/X51iHZR

After getting a couple of games under my belt in this new edition, learning a little bit (honestly, a tiny bit) about the meta, building like 10000 lists for some reason and experimenting with the codex quite a lot, I finally am going to attend a tourney for the first time in 8th edition this Sunday.

Bearing this in mind and the fact that I only have 10 Immortals, building a list I feel satisfied with is quite complex. I finally have a draft I'm happy with and I wanna start buying/modeling/painting towards it, so if you have any comments they'll be more than welcome.

Also, small complaint. I played a game versus Grey Knights the other day and my 3 DDAs only took 5 wounds off a Dreadnought for 2 turns and completely whiffed everything else. They have been very unreliable in my lists, I wonder if more people have seen this happen to them.

So here's what I plan on buying/building and bringing to the tournament:


The idea is Cloaktek supports the TB blob. Immortal Pride, Chronometron, VoD Cryptek supports the 20 man warrior squad and possibly teleports them in order to try and draw shooting (trying to protect my squishy units). Or contest the middle of the board.

The CCB tries to assault very big things and rely on QS. A few things I figured out after crunching some numbers. QS is equal to a 4++ when facing d6 damage. It's better when facing more than d6 (3+d3, 3d3 etc) and worse when facing less damage (d3, or flat 1-2-3). Most things I wanna assault with void reaper have d6 or better, so it's essentially better than a 4++, and to add to that the QS stratagem can further improve it. Assaulting knights, big tyranids or generally scary things should actually be a good idea and it's got a heavy weapon with it for the price. (Plus, he can MWBD on Immortals/Warriors from 12")

I wanna test the CCB out and if he doesn't work, I plan on replacing him with Imotekh, who seems to be more reliable (the storm ability is absolutely delightful).

The list is quite heavy on the shooting and should work pretty well with the Sautekh Stratagem. Again, any comments are welcome.

Doctoralex wrote:


And another one 6th place at Siege of Augusta:

Sautekh Battalion

Immotekh, Warlord
Lord /w Veil of Darkness

3x 10 Tesla Immortals

Triach Stalker /w Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

2x 3 scarabs

6x Destroyers

Sautekh Spearhead

Cryptek /w Chronometron, Abyssal Staff

5x Wraiths

3x DDA

https://imgur.com/a/X51iHZR

This is damn similar to what I'm planning on running in my first tournament. Mine is only a 1750pt list (that looks like 2k), but mine drops the destroyers, Imotek and the lord in favour of an extra wraith, a nightbringer and a normal Overlord. Very pleased to see similar lists doing well.

It's very similar to what I'm running as well. The second battalion (and HQ tax) seems a bit needless in that list.

My list:


I haven't had the chance to do much table time with it, but so far, it is solid. The Lord warps the Gauss Immortals, with Gauss chosen so the Immortals can be self-sufficient without MWBD. I was tempted to toss Destroyers in, but I do not currently own any.

The Heat Ray is also equipped VS the HGC in order to test the Ray. It is pretty solid so far, but I'm curious to see when the range ends up being a drawback.

Seeing a very similar list put up results is very encouraging!

I won a 2k Maelstrom game using my C'tan Bomb/Novokh Wraith spam list against Khorne Daemons/World Eaters. I ramdomly generated traits for my C'tan and picked powers for them. I got first turn and went all in with 3 Cosmic Fires, the first 7 units hit by Cosmic Fire suffered 0 wounds. After a terrible first turn my opponent started cutting into my forces and he was beating me pretty hard, but we were playing the mission were you get -1 VP for each objective you have active at the end of the game, my opponent hadn't read the fine print and lost half his VP. My unit of 3 Scarabs were MWPs for getting me 6 VP over the course of the game.

I won a 2k Eternal War game going first using my Triple D-Scythe Mephrit list against an Alaitoc list with 3 flyers and a unit of Dark Reapers, but no Farseer or Ynnari. The Doom Scythes were kind of nice because I was able to get within 12" so I was not -1 to hit, like my Doomsday Ark was.

I won a 2k Eternal War game going first using the same list against a melee Adepta Sororitas list. The D-Scythes never had an option to use the Amalgamated Targeting Data Stratagem, I was expecting Sautekh to not be important if I relied on the Stratagem, but getting to use it is super hard. Mephrit is still alright, but I think you want to go Sautekh if you are taking any Flyers. I had a unit of 9 Deathmarks in both games and they were kind of amazing in both games, in one the first they finished off a character and killed some rangers, in the other they managed to kill 8 deep striking sisters after the sisters killed 2 Immortals with their Stratagem. Having Mephrit on the Deathmarks seems huge. I think they are still a little ways off from being competitive, but they are pretty alright, they probably need to be the same cost as Immortals. I am not impressed with Doom Scythes, but they aren't bad either, the -1 AP on the Tesla is nice, but I think they are liable to be move-blocked in games against more competitive opponents, leading me to think they remain a unit for casual games, but they are now pretty great for that. I don't subscribe to every opponent being able to block your movement every time, but it only needs to happen for 1/6 Flyers every game before it starts making Flyers bad.

I won a 2k ITC game using my Imotekh Zahndrekh Overlord Double Battalion list against someone who came second at a big tournament this weekend, but I don't think I have played against him rested and sober yet. I went first and did a ton of damage, I failed to screen against DS properly so I lost a lot to his counterstrike, but I basically won because I went first.

I won a 2k ITC game using the same list against Thousand Sons Tzaangor Horde/Alpha Legion Dreadnought list. I chose to go first which was a mistake because I was only able to shoot with very few units. The map was insanely populated, which gave my opponent a huge advantage, but his 2x3 Slaanesh Oblits didn't kill a single unit in three turns so I was able to pull out a narrow victory in the end. I messed up and piled into line of sight of several psykers to block shooting from a Dreadnought, forgetting that smite works in melee and the Dread was able to shoot without falling back.

Vict, you're an unstoppable force my man. You have become one with the necrons. Keep the reports coming. I can't help but wonder how your unit of 3 scarabs go you 6 VP in the first game.

Besides that, I see you tested Mephrit Deathmarks and that's pretty cool, cause they're really cool and I want to see them on tables again.

I have a question regarding Deathmarks however.

"Each time you roll a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, the target suffers a mortal wound in addition to any other damage."

Does that mean that MWBD would get that number to a 5? Also, would that mean that MWBD + Sautekh stratagem would proc mortal wounds on 4s?

 necr0n wrote:

I have a question regarding Deathmarks however.

"Each time you roll a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, the target suffers a mortal wound in addition to any other damage."

Does that mean that MWBD would get that number to a 5? Also, would that mean that MWBD + Sautekh stratagem would proc mortal wounds on 4s?

Now, that would be great. Unfortunately MWBD and the sautekh strat gives you +1/+1 to hit rolls, but you need to do a 6+ on wound rolls. And necrons cant get any +1 to wound rolls.

 p5freak wrote:

 necr0n wrote:

I have a question regarding Deathmarks however.

"Each time you roll a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, the target suffers a mortal wound in addition to any other damage."

Does that mean that MWBD would get that number to a 5? Also, would that mean that MWBD + Sautekh stratagem would proc mortal wounds on 4s?

Now, that would be great. Unfortunately MWBD and the sautekh strat gives you +1/+1 to hit rolls, but you need to do a 6+ on wound rolls. And necrons cant get any +1 to wound rolls.

Damn, I got over-excited and just refused to realize it was wound rolls. Thanks for clearing it up, though!

 necr0n wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 necr0n wrote:

I have a question regarding Deathmarks however.

"Each time you roll a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, the target suffers a mortal wound in addition to any other damage."

Does that mean that MWBD would get that number to a 5? Also, would that mean that MWBD + Sautekh stratagem would proc mortal wounds on 4s?

Now, that would be great. Unfortunately MWBD and the sautekh strat gives you +1/+1 to hit rolls, but you need to do a 6+ on wound rolls. And necrons cant get any +1 to wound rolls.

Damn, I got over-excited and just refused to realize it was wound rolls. Thanks for clearing it up, though!

Well, it DOES mean you have more hits to work with?

Just use the stock Lord with a Veil I guess.

 iGuy91 wrote:
I'd love to hear a synopsis of what you ended up doing to win the matches etc. Always like to hear about us doing well!

Ok a quick report .



More reports to come

While I enjoy reading the long reports, do you guys mind putting them under spoiler tags to tuck them away?

I don't mean any offense, but they tend to clog the thread a bit. I do still enjoy them, though; thanks for posting the reports!

Hi all, I have a 1750pt 2 day 5 game tournament this weekend and I am stuck between 2 lists

List 1

List 2

Idea with list 1 is that I have 3 x 5 Immortals to stay in my DZ to hold objects and somewhat deny any DS in my DZ. I don't an on them surviving very long nor to do much DMG so if they last 2 turns a unit I'd be happy/surprised.

I have 7CP to play with as Sautekh SoL atrefact is a nice reliable source for MW which we need vs stuff with good Invuls and FnP e.g. Custodes and using VoD as my extra artefact I case gakk gets real and I need to VoD my characters to safety.

Bringing Nightbringer as my Meta is very Eldar heavy and a good few of their models don't have the Vehicle keyword so he will always wound on 2+ and is the cheapest way to get C'tan powers which I intend to take either Anti matter meteor, cosmic fire or Times arrow. Depends on the match up.

3 DDAs and 1 T stalker should provide me with good dakka with good range.

TB units with kite out to grab objective and go onto of buildings if needed to prevent charges.

Scarabs soak smite and stuff in CC if needed. Or if they survive.

With list 2 I swapped 7CP and 3 x5 immortals for 5 CP, a few extra Scarabs, an extra TB per unit as well as a 2nd T Stalker. While losing 3CP might make a difference, because I was spending 1 already on an extra artefact I thought that for the sake of 2CP I might as well make my army more tanky. The extra T stalker means I can now provide re-rolling ones on 2 different enemy units, extra Scarabs are always good, the extra TBs might give me more survivability and while I'm losing out on VoD, I can pick my non-warlord cloaktek to hold the SoL relic so that if it does die at least it isn't my Warlord.

What do you guys think? Anyway I can improve them? Just note no FW is allowed otherwise I'd have 1-2 Tesseract Arks.

I have also included the rules pack for the event so that you guys could try help me better

I would say that your local meta would decide between theme.

Are you good with hordes? Will there be 90 orks on your doorstep?

 Odrankt wrote:
Hi all, I have a 1750pt 2 day 5 game tournament this weekend and I am stuck between 2 lists

Do you really need 2 Crypteks? I'd put a Lord or maybe an Overlord in the first list, I've just been falling out of love with Crypteks. I think the first list is better, I think the biggest tax we have is HQs, so if you are going to be taking 2 Crypteks anyway, each squad of Immortals is effectively giving you a CP, that makes them too valuable not to take. When I go for a no-Battalion list it's usually to skimp on the HQs, so maybe that's something to consider, taking out a Cryptek, Triarch Stalker and a DDA for Wraiths, Scarabs or Tomb Blades or cut out both Triarch Stalkers, a DDA and a Cryptek for the Deceiver and whatever, double Cosmic Fire can be stupidly explosive if you go first against castles, instant win kind of explosive.

Something curious I've noticed is how popular Imotekh seems to be, if we look at one of the lists that got I think it was fourth at a GT where he was in a list with 3x5 Immortals is certainly a very curious choice IMO, compared 2x5 + 1x10 + 1x regular Overlord. Maybe Imotekh is going to be as much of a staple as 3 DDAs. What do you guys think? How many Necron attendees were at the events, I went through the list of attendees of the guy who got 17th and I wasn't able to find any other Necrons. If you look at the average Aeldari player at that event, did they get more than 17th?

One thing I find really strange is that Seraptek Heavy Construct list doing so well, I think one of the strengths of DDAs is its resistance to the Castellan's volcano lance, effectively cutting maybe half of the Castellan's firepower out, making it easier to ignore it and kill the rest of a Castellan list's forces. In my experience anything short of two Constructs will get removed before getting to do any damage. The Construct doing so well cements it as something that does not belong in casual games as I have been saying and definitely makes it a unit worth a better grade than a C. Does anyone still believe it to be trash, do you think this was a one-off thing? No more top 10s for the Construct?

I've only had one game with my Seraptekh, and the Dice Gods absolutely hated me that day...

tl:dr, can't comment

Do you really need 2 Crypteks? I'd put a Lord or maybe an Overlord in the first list, I've just been falling out of love with Crypteks. I think the first list is better, I think the biggest tax we have is HQs, so if you are going to be taking 2 Crypteks anyway, each squad of Immortals is effectively giving you a CP, that makes them too valuable not to take

I am only bring 3 x 5 Immortals. What would be the point in MWBD only 5 Immortals for a 80-90 point tax Overlord ? Also, the idea would to have the immos on 3 different objects so a Lord would be no help. And, a Cryptek is our 2nd cheapest HQ and probably our 2nd best. And the Cryptek gives each TB unit 4+ RP and the ability to let both TB units act independently rather than having 18 surrounding by 1 Cryptek. While every immortal unit gives me 3 CP (or 2 after the extra artefact) they will be a lot easier to kill than what's in my 2nd list imo.

When I go for a no-Battalion list it's usually to skimp on the HQs, so maybe that's something to consider, taking out a Cryptek, Triarch Stalker and a DDA for Wraiths, Scarabs or Tomb Blades or cut out both Triarch Stalkers, a DDA and a Cryptek for the Deceiver and whatever,

yeah, I did skimp on HQs by bringing 2 85 pt charcters. Whuxh is only 170 points in my HQ Slot. Not really sure how I can make it cheaper and better tbh. Also, wtf woudk I bring Wraiths when most of my Meta is Eldar and they have a pysker power that ignores invul saves? Like, did you just forget they had that power or? Tbh mate everything you suggested me to drop out is one of our top 5 units. Also, why bring the Deceiver when I don't want to be in my opponents face? I want to hang back and have my opponent come towards me. Necrons are a defensive army.

double Cosmic Fire can be stupidly explosive if you go first against castles, instant win kind of explosive.

you do know that you can't use a C'tan powers twice unless all have been selected 1st. It would be illegal and cheating if I gave 2 Ctan the same power and used that power twice in the movement phase. I think you need to re-read the codex.

Just a minor correction, the Cosmic Powers (name?) Startagem doesnt have that same caveat

You just pick the power, so it is not at all an issue to spend a single command point to give a second guy CF.

I have considered using a CF/TA + CF/AM combo post-strat to neuter castles, because there's a lot of them in my meta

but then again, that was in my CP Black Hole army list which really shouldnt be taken seriously... like, at all

edit bc butchered spellings....

Odrankt: As said, the Crypteks are questionable.
I dont like lumbering HQs. My pick is usually a Cmd Barge Lord and Cryptek/Lord with the veil.
The Nightbringer is also questionable, since the Deceiver can give you a tactical advantage.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Odrankt: As said, the Crypteks are questionable.
I dont like lumbering HQs. My pick is usually a Cmd Barge Lord and Cryptek/Lord with the veil.
The Nightbringer is also questionable, since the Deceiver can give you a tactical advantage.

Not really sure how the Cloaktek is questionable when it has 10" movment, fky, heals D3 wounds to 1 living metal unit, can keep up with my TBs which gives them 4+. If anything the Cloaktek is the best HQ for the list I made. I don't need a CCB or Lord as I have no one to gain Command Wave and the Lord's re-rolling 1s to wound.

Plus, as stated, I'm not lumbering a 10" movment HQ. Like, I physically don't understand how 10" movement is "lumbering when a CCB is 2" faster.....

Nightbringer is not questionable either. My Meta is mostly Eldar and a lot of their good units dont have the Vehicle keyword. Also, a few people play Wraithknights. A Deceiver wounds a Wraithknights on 4+ while the Nightbringer wounds it's on 2+ with both it's weapons (as it doesn't have the Vehicle keyword)

Also the Deceiver tactical advantage isn't really an advantage when most of my lists moves atleast 10" with 14" being my fastest unit. I would rather take the Nightbringer reliable 2+ to hit and 2+ to wounds + C'tan powers than the Deceiver D3 + deceiver movment. As I already have a fast army for the most part .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

torblind wrote:
I would say that your local meta would decide between theme.

Are you good with hordes? Will there be 90 orks on your doorstep?

Well, for hordes, I do have 30-60 S4 -1 D1 Gauss shots via the 3 DDAs, 18-36 S5 -2 D1 shots via Gauss TBs and 36 S5 0 D1 Tesla shots. I should be Abel to handle hordes. And on the off chance I feel like I might not be able to. I can use the Sautekh Stratgem to let my Tesla TBs pop on 5+ e.g. use a Cryptek to wound an enemy unit, use gem to get +1 to hit, hit that unit with The stalker for re-rolling 1s. Tesla TBs now hit in 2s, re-rolling 1s and Tesla pop on 5+. It would be very overkill but I rather overkill an enemy horde than have it up in my grill.

For the Deceiver, it is great to get even the fastest models moved half way up the Neutral Zone so they can get to the important HQ and HS units.

Though my concern is if I'm going second, those teleported units are going to take a lot of hits. People that play the Deceiver's Grand Illusion, do you have an alternative plan if you're going second?

elook wrote:
For the Deceiver, it is great to get even the fastest models moved half way up the Neutral Zone so they can get to the important HQ and HS units.

Though my concern is if I'm going second, those teleported units are going to take a lot of hits. People that play the Deceiver's Grand Illusion, do you have an alternative plan if you're going second?

Move your stuff into LoS blocking terrain so you don't get shot up.

I just don't see the Deceiver benefiting me all that much. If you look at the rulespack only 1 deployment favours mass speed and good range. Which is most of my list. Imo.

What are your Crypteks doing? After all, they are squishy models.
It appears to me that you lack game experience.

 wuestenfux wrote:
What are your Crypteks doing? After all, they are squishy models.
It appears to me that you lack game experience.

Mate, I don't lack any experience. I been apart of this forum and the 7th Ed one longer than you been playing necrons.

And, again, I will state. My Crypteks with Cloak (Cloaktek) will give my Tomb Blades a 4+ Reanimation Protocols and it can either heal its self D3 wounds or any of my <dynasty> Vehicles with living metal with D3 wounds.

 wuestenfux wrote:
What are your Crypteks doing? After all, they are squishy models.
It appears to me that you lack game experience.

They are only squishy if you allow them to get shot at or charged. Its easy to avoid that.

 Odrankt wrote:

Do you really need 2 Crypteks? I'd put a Lord or maybe an Overlord in the first list, I've just been falling out of love with Crypteks. I think the first list is better, I think the biggest tax we have is HQs, so if you are going to be taking 2 Crypteks anyway, each squad of Immortals is effectively giving you a CP, that makes them too valuable not to take

I am only bring 3 x 5 Immortals. What would be the point in MWBD only 5 Immortals for a 80-90 point tax Overlord ? Also, the idea would to have the immos on 3 different objects so a Lord would be no help. And, a Cryptek is our 2nd cheapest HQ and probably our 2nd best. And the Cryptek gives each TB unit 4+ RP and the ability to let both TB units act independently rather than having 18 surrounding by 1 Cryptek. While every immortal unit gives me 3 CP (or 2 after the extra artefact) they will be a lot easier to kill than what's in my 2nd list imo.

When I go for a no-Battalion list it's usually to skimp on the HQs, so maybe that's something to consider, taking out a Cryptek, Triarch Stalker and a DDA for Wraiths, Scarabs or Tomb Blades or cut out both Triarch Stalkers, a DDA and a Cryptek for the Deceiver and whatever,

yeah, I did skimp on HQs by bringing 2 85 pt charcters. Whuxh is only 170 points in my HQ Slot. Not really sure how I can make it cheaper and better tbh. Also, wtf woudk I bring Wraiths when most of my Meta is Eldar and they have a pysker power that ignores invul saves? Like, did you just forget they had that power or? Tbh mate everything you suggested me to drop out is one of our top 5 units. Also, why bring the Deceiver when I don't want to be in my opponents face? I want to hang back and have my opponent come towards me. Necrons are a defensive army.

double Cosmic Fire can be stupidly explosive if you go first against castles, instant win kind of explosive.

you do know that you can't use a C'tan powers twice unless all have been selected 1st. It would be illegal and cheating if I gave 2 Ctan the same power and used that power twice in the movement phase. I think you need to re-read the codex.

The Overlord is a lot more durable, which makes him an ideal WL, especially against snipers, since Eldar are popular where you play, I imagine that's signifigant? As far as that second Cryptek being worth it, I doubt it. 1 CP and maybe 2 Tomb Blades over the course of a game does not pay for a Cryptek, neither does 2 wounds on a DDA. I think you should untether yourself from the thought that a unit without the 4+ RP is bad, it's perfectly fine, you don't even know what your opponent will shoot at, probably whatever is far away from your Crypteks. My main problem with them is they don't provide any damage. An overlord, even one with just a hyperphase sword can help put a little bit of damage on units and can potentially tie up weaker assault units, but with 3x5 Immortals I would go for the Lord, but I don't know what models you have available. The Overlord also provides at least a tiny bit of extra damage output with his MWBD compared to the Crypteks more random, sometimes it'll help you out turn 3 or 5 with keeping a unit alive.

I'm not sure how you plan on dealing Dark Reapers? You don't have Imotekh, you plan on being defensive against them and keeping back. With Word of the Phoenix going off more often than it fails, that's a recipe for a loss, especially if you are planning on letting your opponent control the board. I don't know how much terrain your tables have, if all you have is forests then I suppose you can just sit back and gun down the Dark Reapers as soon as they pop out of their transport/DS. But it sounds like you have it all figured out, let us know how it goes and don't get too defensive, we don't know your credentials or how you normally do.

When you say Eldar can deny invul saves I'm wondering if you mean give you -1 to all saves? Because AFAIK only CSM have a shut off invuls for one unit ability and Space Marines have the shut off invuls aura. The reason I mentioned Wraiths was because, again I don't know which models you own. I was personally a big opponent of Wraiths before they got their 2018 price reduction, I think they're cool and they go really well with C'tan in my experience.

Sorry I should have pointed out that I meant swapping out a power with the Stratagem, as I said it can be stupidly explosive, if it isn't applicable and you just want to hang back then you can just save the CP. The Deceiver also wounds Wraithknights on 5s, so your arguement for taking the Nightbringer is definitely good if that's a big worry. I haven't seen many Wraithknights this edition, I used one twice back before the Necron Codex came out. Because Wraiths have the Beasts keyword they can tie up a Wraithknight quite well, but your bikes should be able to handle that as well.

Hey guys, I have two ITC list variations that I'd like to bounce off you. My meta follows the US meta pretty closely, so I expect to see hordes, standard Castellan/loyal 32, Eldar, etc.

One list is the "fun" list, and includes a heavy construct. I don't think anyone really knows whether it's good or not, so it's a risk and I expect it to be a "coin flip" list; its success depending a lot on first turn:



The second list is more well-rounded, and probably more "competitive," but less fun (because there's no stompy construct). It relies more on target saturation, and includes squeezes out 4 more Tesla immortals and Immotekh:



Need a take all comers, and my goal is to win half my tournament games.

So question: What's up with Immotekh popping up in every competitive necron list at the moment?

Or, more importantly, why is he getting picked when they also take a minimum battalion (3x5 Immortals). There's nothing good for him to use his double MWBD on.

Doctoralex wrote:
So question: What's up with Immotekh popping up in every competitive necron list at the moment?

Or, more importantly, why is he getting picked when they also take a minimum battalion (3x5 Immortals). There's nothing good for him to use his double MWBD on.

I can't talk for the competitive players, but the storm is good. I've played versus Tau recently and the fact that it bypass the shield drone by not being an attack is a good way to remove a chunk of wounds of a ripide/broadside.
I also found his staff with the 18" range to be a good way to put some wound (S6 AP-3 D2) on key target, and trigger Methodical Destruction.

The free CP, the enhanced resilience (2+, 1D3 Living Metal) are small buffs too.

All in all i find him very solid, but i may be biased because i was already playing with him before CA18

Immotehk is the cheapest way to get 2 MWBD. He's cheaper than two overlords, storm is good. shooting isn't bad. melee is ok, and is pretty durable.

I like him for the double MWBD, storm, and CP. After chapter approved, he's pretty much an auto-include for me unless i need the points elsewhere (e.g. my construct list)

Rumbling_Otter wrote:
Hey guys, I have two ITC list variations that I'd like to bounce off you. My meta follows the US meta pretty closely, so I expect to see hordes, standard Castellan/loyal 32, Eldar, etc.

One list is the "fun" list, and includes a heavy construct. I don't think anyone really knows whether it's good or not, so it's a risk and I expect it to be a "coin flip" list; its success depending a lot on first turn:

Spoiler:

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Necrons) [32 PL, 625pts] ++

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh

+ Lord of War +

Seraptek Heavy Construct [32 PL, 625pts]: Two Synaptic Obliterators and Two Transdimensional Projectors

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [83 PL, 8CP, 1375pts] ++

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Overlord [6 PL, 93pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Warscythe
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Sautekh): Hyperlogical Strategist

+ Troops +

Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 52pts]: 4x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
. 6x Destroyer: 6x Gauss Cannon

Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
. 6x Destroyer: 6x Gauss Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

++ Total: [115 PL, 8CP, 2000pts] ++

The second list is more well-rounded, and probably more "competitive," but less fun (because there's no stompy construct). It relies more on target saturation, and includes squeezes out 4 more Tesla immortals and Immotekh:

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [71 PL, 8CP, 1140pts] ++

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 95pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Chronometron, Staff of Light

Imotekh the Stormlord [10 PL, 160pts]
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Sautekh): Hyperlogical Strategist

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 105pts]: 7x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [8 PL, 105pts]: 7x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Fast Attack +

Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
. 6x Destroyer: 6x Gauss Cannon

Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
. 6x Destroyer: 6x Gauss Cannon

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [53 PL, 1CP, 855pts] ++

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Tomb Sentinel [9 PL, 145pts]

Canoptek Tomb Sentinel [9 PL, 145pts]

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

++ Total: [124 PL, 9CP, 1995pts] ++

Need a take all comers, and my goal is to win half my tournament games.

In your first list I would swap out one unit of destroyers for one unit of tomb blades and I go for that list. But I'm a little bit partial to running LOW units. The second list is likely a bit more well rounded but if they cant or dont deal with the construct it will absolutely annihilate something.

I think it has to be that everyone is playing Sautekh anyway and his storm ability is super awsome. Also, I don't get why people think MWBD doesn't work on 5 man squads. 5 man squads can also be buffed, what a shock. You don't really "have to" buff max number squads in order to include Imotekh. If you're playing with max squads, that's cool, all the more reason, but most of the people who don't play 60 Immortals usually play min squad Immortals and Imotekh still is a great choice.

Of course MWBD works on 5 model units, but its not efficient.

It can be argued that it makes them effective as if they were a full unit though

and given the price, I think 3*5 is a perfectly valid way to run a battalion on the cheap

Can be argued even stronger in a Brigade, if you are a proper tight arse

Do we have more „data“ on the seraptek heavy construct?

Has it been played? EDIT: Has it seen some play in tournaments etc.?

I like the model a lot but the rules of it are odd to me.

It seems too strong and not fun for causal play but too weak for competitive.

Basically, it's what an Imperial Knight SHOULD have been.

however, since that is an actually well-balanced entity, it struggles in the environment it is in


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A casual list will get a rude awakening with Average Rolls, and will walk it with Good Rolls

Whereas a Competative list will absolutely gak all over a Seraptekh a good 65% of the time, unless they get unlucky (or you get lucky, whichever).

They're simply not sturdy enough to stand up to a gunline of Knights and Leman Russes

A casual list will get a rude awakening with Average Rolls, and will walk it with Good Rolls

Whereas a Competative list will absolutely gak all over a Seraptekh a good 65% of the time, unless they get unlucky (or you get lucky, whichever).

Have you played the seraptek much? I have yet to use it (even though i have the model). If we're truly looking at a 65% loss rate, i'm not so sure I want to take it.

Rumbling_Otter wrote:

A casual list will get a rude awakening with Average Rolls, and will walk it with Good Rolls

Whereas a Competative list will absolutely gak all over a Seraptekh a good 65% of the time, unless they get unlucky (or you get lucky, whichever).

Have you played the seraptek much? I have yet to use it (even though i have the model). If we're truly looking at a 65% loss rate, i'm not so sure I want to take it.

Even if you don't use it, it looks lovely much like a Knight (which get built by people that don't even own their codex). At minimum we can assume a price cut in the super far future.

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Do we have more „data“ on the seraptek heavy construct?

Has it been played? EDIT: Has it seen some play in tournaments etc.?

I like the model a lot but the rules of it are odd to me.

It seems too strong and not fun for causal play but too weak for competitive.

Its strong in melee, but the rules for movement make it pretty immobile. It cant move over an armorium container. Unless you have a table with almost no terrain on it, you will have a hard time moving it around. Its defense is pathetic for a 650 pts. model.

I've only been able to use it once, and it tanked through 900 points of Orkish Deathstar pretty easy, only going down because for some goddamned reason Big Choppas have D2.

 p5freak wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Do we have more „data“ on the seraptek heavy construct?

Has it been played? EDIT: Has it seen some play in tournaments etc.?

I like the model a lot but the rules of it are odd to me.

It seems too strong and not fun for causal play but too weak for competitive.

Its strong in melee, but the rules for movement make it pretty immobile. It cant move over an armorium container. Unless you have a table with almost no terrain on it, you will have a hard time moving it around. Its defense is pathetic for a 650 pts. model.

Basically this sums it up.

But, it is T8 with 3+/5++, 32W Living Metal. (IIRC)

Which is slightly better than a knight.

But, at say +10% statline on a knight, we get +50-75% of it's cost, less effective ranged weapons in the most shooting-centric edition so far, and no access whatsoever to any of the buff factors available to IK.

Which wouldn't be a bad thing if the fething Volcano Lance couldn't nuke it in one turn without too much issue.

If it had Quantum Shielding it would be absolutely great, but it doesn't, so it's pretty bad metawise.

Damn good model, and good fun to use, but because it's balanced correctly in a game of broken combos, it gets shafted.

As with our entire codex pretty much

Imo the Seraptek should have something along the lines of an ability that reduces incoming damage by 1 or incurs a -1 to wound rolls made against it, and a stratagem that increases this to 2

Just to be able to compare to knight resilience

Or just properly balancing knights would also do it

You got that literally backwards.

Knights should be less indestructible, not make everything else more indestructible

Edit: Ninja edited

 p5freak wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Do we have more „data“ on the seraptek heavy construct?

Has it been played? EDIT: Has it seen some play in tournaments etc.?

I like the model a lot but the rules of it are odd to me.

It seems too strong and not fun for causal play but too weak for competitive.

Its strong in melee, but the rules for movement make it pretty immobile. It cant move over an armorium container. Unless you have a table with almost no terrain on it, you will have a hard time moving it around. Its defense is pathetic for a 650 pts. model.

There are no rules saying you cannot go on top of a container with a Vehicle is there? There are rules preventing you from going on top of ruins, but the rules for the containers found in CA2018 does not mention any model being unable to scale a container. So you have to subtract 3" for going up and 3" for going down, but it's not impassable.

And the core rules specifically say you can go up vertically to go over a terrain feature "No part of the model’s base (or hull) can move further than this. It cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls, but can be moved vertically in order to climb or traverse any scenery." (emphasis mine)

If your opponent doesn't think you should be able to do so, then you should at least be able to agree to set up terrain in such a way that a Seraptek Construct has plenty of ways to manoeuvre. I only think I moved over a piece of terrain like that once in all my games with the Construct, generally making battlefields where there was space for it and just moving around because I was unsure of whether it was legal or not, but I don't think there is any arguement for it being illegal outside of house rules.

Rumbling_Otter wrote:

A casual list will get a rude awakening with Average Rolls, and will walk it with Good Rolls

Whereas a Competitive list will absolutely gak all over a Seraptekh a good 65% of the time, unless they get unlucky (or you get lucky, whichever).

Have you played the seraptek much? I have yet to use it (even though i have the model). If we're truly looking at a 65% loss rate, i'm not so sure I want to take it.

It's nowhere near as bad as I initially though and it was one of our most competitive units previous to CA2018 and remains a strong unit as evidenced by it grabbing a top 10 spot at a GT. It's weak to Castellans and Farseers with Doom and any army that just has a ton of anti-vehicle.

L/W/W/L/L/W/L/W/L/L/W/W/W/L/W/L/W

9 wins and 8 losses, I forgot to DS 20 Flayed Ones in more than 5 of those games. I went up against some very beefy lists, pre-nerf Cultist spam, AM FW Flametanks with Castellan, the Loota bomb, Triptide Tau, but also went up against a couple of weaker armies like Renegades and Heretics with Alpha Legion Havocs and competitive SW and some mid tier armies like competitive Nids. I had wins against the stronger lists and losses against some of the more mid-tier lists as well. Several of the lists I used with one Seraptek Construct and some Wraiths and Immortals got cheaper post CA2018, one used two Seraptek Constructs and a Vault which got more expensive post CA2018, replacing the Vault with an Obelisk might work out but I haven't had the willpower to force myself to play one of those since my initial failures with it back when the codex came out.

35% win rate would be meta and skill dependent, but I very much doubt a list with 3xDDA and a Construct would get such a low win rate.

I played it once, I have the model.

My Tyranid opponent had a nidzilla list that had one of his super heavy lizards, barbed something.

My turn 1, going first, I fired those S8 weapons with MW, all shots on his Flyrant, inflicting a total of 3 damage. That was all the ranged DMG he put out. anecdotal but still.

He later killed his LoW in a single range of combat. All in all representative of his abilities.

The S8 weapons, while nice, are weak enough that you have to fire them both at the same targets safely kill it.

Put the flat 6 dmg in CC is great.

Yea, I'm 99% sure the Synaptic Obliterators + Transdimensional Projectors are better in every scenario.

Doctoralex wrote:
Yea, I'm 99% sure the Synaptic Obliterators + Transdimensional Projectors are better in every scenario.

Agreed. Also, the Trans Projectors encourage you closing to engage.

super heavy lizards,

Hahaha, love it. Damn those super heavy lizards (was probably a scythed or barbed hierodule )

 vict0988 wrote:

There are no rules saying you cannot go on top of a container with a Vehicle is there? There are rules preventing you from going on top of ruins, but the rules for the containers found in CA2018 does not mention any model being unable to scale a container. So you have to subtract 3" for going up and 3" for going down, but it's not impassable.

And the core rules specifically say you can go up vertically to go over a terrain feature "No part of the model’s base (or hull) can move further than this. It cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls, but can be moved vertically in order to climb or traverse any scenery." (emphasis mine)

Sure, you can move on top of a container. But if you want to move over it your model has to move up 3", move across 3", and move down 3". Thats 9" you have to subtract from your 16" movement, 7" remain. I dont know how long the virtual base of the monstrosity is, but i guess its more than 7". This means your 650 pts. model is stopped by a simple container, it cant move over it in one turn. All i have to do is hide my units behind terrain, or inside ruins, and you cant charge me, because you are unable to move, stopped by terrain.

With the new Bolter Beta rule I thought would it help if they actually did it for Necrons too?

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
With the new Bolter Beta rule I thought would it help if they actually did it for Necrons too?

I'm not familiar with this rule. Can you explain?

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
With the new Bolter Beta rule I thought would it help if they actually did it for Necrons too?

Honestly I would say Immortals are fine at their point cost compared to the Tactical Marine boost.

As a Marine player, though, I noticed it just cemented some units as overall still better and didn't exactly help the units that needed a boost the most outside Centurions.

punisher357 wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
With the new Bolter Beta rule I thought would it help if they actually did it for Necrons too?

I'm not familiar with this rule. Can you explain?

In short:

If you stand still with RF weapons you get the RF bonus even at long range (24“ inches 2 shots instead of 1 for example).

Units with the „terminator; biker“ keyword ALWAY get the RF bonus

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

I'm not familiar with this rule. Can you explain?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/21/21st-jan-introducing-better-beta-boltersgw-homepage-post-4/

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
With the new Bolter Beta rule I thought would it help if they actually did it for Necrons too?

Honestly I would say Immortals are fine at their point cost compared to the Tactical Marine boost.

As a Marine player, though, I noticed it just cemented some units as overall still better and didn't exactly help the units that needed a boost the most outside Centurions.

Exactly, the beta bolter rule is bad. I honestly don't think Tactical Marines are worse than Cultists at the moment and if they just nerfed the obscenely OP units in the game there would be room for 13 pt Marines. Things like Assault Marines needed a buff more than Tacticals did. Beta bolters isn't going to break the game, but Marine Bikes basically have no business in combat any longer. Why would you try to get into combat with a powersword on your Searge when you can just grab another storm bolter with 4 shots at range 24"? Why would you keep your bolt pistol on your Company Veterans when all their damage is going to come from combi-bolters or special weapons and when storm shields are incredibly cheap? Bolt pistol + power sword combo is ridiculously bad compared to Storm Shield + Storm Bolter, same price too, this is especially the case for Company Veterans on Bikes.

Same thing applies to Necrons to different degrees. Gauss TBs and Tesla TBs are IMO a very balanced choice that depends entirely on Dynasty and meta, Gauss Discipline would skew the situation too far in the direction of Gauss IMO, it would also make DDAs even more busted. Now if it applied only to Infantry, that would be an okay idea, but I'm not sure how much room there is to buff Gauss before they become part of the OP meta units. It also widens the gap between Tacticals and Assault Marines or in our case Flayed Ones and Warriors, not something you want to have happen 11 months before the next pts costs update, or maybe you do if you are sure that's how you want the game to function and you plan on buffing Assault Marines/FOs next CA and you want to balance in July based on what you learn about Bolter/Gauss Discipline in Feburary-July.

I also don't like how it can be misinterpreted to be 4 shots within 12" if you don't move or 16 shots if you don't move within 12" with a Storm Bolter on a Terminator. I'm not 100% on how to fix the wording, but having it explicit that it does not stack, rather than something that has to be understood from a rules reading standpoint based on the words used would be good. It might just tick me off if someone tried to play it that way against me, no need to give an edge to people who read with a heavy skew.

I also found a Necron battle report featuring a pretty cool list, I couldn't be bothered looking through the whole thing because it was kind of meant to teach you a bunch of basic stuff, so I just kind of skipped ahead to the ending and the Necrons won. I think the DW player was a bit surprised, perhabs the Necron player as well. Warhammer 40k - Necrons vs Deathwatch - ITC Battle Report. by Vanguard Tactics. It might be interesting if you are in the market of watching Necron bat reps.

 vict0988 wrote:
Why would you try to get into combat with a powersword on your Searge when you can just grab another storm bolter with 4 shots at range 24"?

Because its AP-3 and no cover in melee. Good luck shooting other models with a 3+ sv in cover with your SB.

 vict0988 wrote:

I also don't like how it can be misinterpreted to be 4 shots within 12" if you don't move or 16 shots if you don't move within 12" with a Storm Bolter on a Terminator.

How can it be be misinterpreted that way ? The wording is pretty clear.

On a complete change of topic, I would like to pose a question to you guys.

In 1750 points, what would you take to fill out a Battalion (and an HQ slot from another detachment) to suport 2x DDAs, a Repair Job Spyder, and a Pylon

First of all I wouldn't use a spider because it's almost half a DDA. I would try to get a third DDA. What pylon are you talking about ? Sentry or gauss ?

Guass, and I only took it to babysit because I dont have a third DDA. took me long enough to source my second...

There's also a Necron Vs Tau batrep by Miniwargaming which I thought I could view using the 7 day free trial (then noticing you had to pay for subscription to use the free trial). Does anyone know how the Necrons faired in that one?

Had a tournament this weekend. Was 1750pt and came 2nd with 4 wins 1 lost.

Beat;
Yannari soup,
Blood angels,
Ultramarines,
Knight + IG soup.

Lost against D eldar due to rolling badly on cards with D3 vp.

Overall great weekend and happy I beat the top player even if I missed out if 1st place by 3 points.

 Odrankt wrote:
Had a tournament this weekend. Was 1750pt and came 2nd with 4 wins 1 lost.

Beat;
Yannari soup,
Blood angels,
Ultramarines,
Knight + IG soup.

Lost against D eldar due to rolling badly on cards with D3 vp.

Overall great weekend and happy I beat the top player even if I missed out if 1st place by 3 points.

You mind sharing your list for us?

I always struggle with 1750point lists for necrons

It's great hearing about good tournament performances like that, congrats!

The list was;

1st have was vs Dark Eldar. Lost 20-16. Could of won 20-21 but I rolled 2 ones on 2 cards with D3 VPs. Nightbringer killed 4 Talos though.

2nd game was vs IG + Knight soup. Won that game 25-11 with a 5th round concede. Tomb blades killed everything they shot at. The guy kept shooting Volanco Lance's at my DDAs and kept doing 7 DMG. I told about QS but he didn't listen and got fustrated.

3rd game was blood angels. Won 38-15 (this was vs an ETC plsyer) it was the Relic and was worth 8VP. He sent Dante after my relic closktek with the relic. He survived on 1 wound. Fell back and scarahs ate Dante plus exploded for 3 MWs. He only had a Razorback left . So was basically a tabling.

Game 4 Was Ultramarines - won 24-4. He moved gulliman into the Nbringer range. I did ante meteor for 6 and got 4 MWs. I than shot him with gaze of death. 5 shots, 4 hits 4 wounds and he failed 3 save. Did 7 DMG. He came back on 4 wounds, I charged. Used enoptic strike to ignore invul on 1st attack. He failed the 6 and took 4 wounds. He than saved all my other attacks, killed the c'tan and he exploded to deal 3W.

Game 5 was vs Ynarri soup . (Etc player). He had a near perfect score all weekend and I robbed him of having 5 major victories. Each DDA put wave serptants to their last wound. Put 3 Gauss That from that 1 unit into each of the via split fire. All of them died. He had the Ynarri that teleports when something dies. Nbringer took it to it's last 2 wounds from gaze of death and tesls TBs electricuted her to death.

Overall great weekend and apperantly I'm being ask to represent Necrons for ETC Ireland .

Wauw, gotta say I didn't expect Aza'gorod or Gauss Tomb Blades to make it into a tourney-winning list.

I really gotta give Gauss tomb blades a go, but I'm just worried that they die as soon as they get into rapid-fire range the next round. Rather stay safe at 24" range with Tesla...

Odrankt wrote:Had a tournament this weekend. Was 1750pt and came 2nd with 4 wins 1 lost.

Congrats !!

Odrankt wrote:
Lost against D eldar due to rolling badly on cards with D3 vp.

Thats why its fair to use 2 points fixed, instead of rolling a D3. Playing with cards is already random enough.

 p5freak wrote:

Odrankt wrote:Had a tournament this weekend. Was 1750pt and came 2nd with 4 wins 1 lost.

Congrats !!

Odrankt wrote:
Lost against D eldar due to rolling badly on cards with D3 vp.

Thats why its fair to use 2 points fixed, instead of rolling a D3. Playing with cards is already random enough.

Thanks man

Yeah, using the cards can be a pain but all of my games were great and because it was definitely winnable I don't feel like I robbed. Just knowing I could have makes it feel like a draw imo

Hopefully I'll be at another tournament soon with this list again and get more data.

Tomb blades should be pretty resilient once you have upgrades. -1 to hit in shooting is brutal, and a 3+/5++ or two to tank hits for the ones that can only afford one or the other isn’t shoddy. Being charged sucks though.

So in May, we will be having the first ITC Tournament in China. I have a sort of idea of what I will be taking and I would like to get any advice or ideas on my list.



Other Units I currently have:

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
Tomb blades should be pretty resilient once you have upgrades. -1 to hit in shooting is brutal, and a 3+/5++ or two to tank hits for the ones that can only afford one or the other isn’t shoddy. Being charged sucks though.

In my games I usually lost 1 full unit by turn 4 but it would take about 1100pt of my opponents army to kill a 300 point unit. The same can be said for the DDAs as well. For 160pts each model at least killed something worth 200+ Points. I used to hate LoS ng my units. Even started the end of the game. But sometimes you got to suicide move your units into basic positions if it means you getting VPs to a victory. Also, being charged isn't that bad because they have Fly so even if charged can still move their 14" and shoot as normal.

Interesting that you beat Ynnari and Imp Soup with mass tomb blades. I really love Tomb Blades but I've found so much Eldar stuff just hard counters them. It's usually a combination of things that ignore modifiers, autohit and also do flat 2 damage that can turn you TB's into giant liabilities. I'd be curious to know how you dealt with Spears and Reapers with that list.

elook wrote:
So in May, we will be having the first ITC Tournament in China. I have a sort of idea of what I will be taking and I would like to get any advice or ideas on my list.

Spoiler:

TOTAL POINTS: 1998
Sautekh Battalion Detachment
HQ
Imotekh Stormlord (Warlord)
Artefact - Veil of Darkness

Cryptekh w/ Chronometron

Troops
20x Warriors
10x Tesla Immortals
10x Tesla Immortals

Heavy Support
2x Doomsday Arks
1x Annihilation Barge

Nephrekh Outrider Detachment
HQ
Cryptek w/ Canoptek Cloak

Fast Attack
6x Scarabs
6x Wraiths w/ 5 Whip Coils & 1 Particle Caster
6x Destroyers w/ 1 Heavy destroyer

Other Units I currently have:

Spoiler:

4x Warriors
10x Lychguard
1x C'Tan Deceiver
2x Overlords

Imotekh can't take the relic. Destroyers might want to be in Sautekh instead of Novokh, although depends. The Annihilation Barge likely won't pull it's weight. Could free up points there

 Bosskelot wrote:
Interesting that you beat Ynnari and Imp Soup with mass tomb blades. I really love Tomb Blades but I've found so much Eldar stuff just hard counters them. It's usually a combination of things that ignore modifiers, autohit and also do flat 2 damage that can turn you TB's into giant liabilities. I'd be curious to know how you dealt with Spears and Reapers with that list.

I kept the TBs ontop of buildings for 2+ saves (as they all had shieldvanes) so when jinxd I was back to 3+. Also, we played a rule where the 1st floor of all buildings were Los from all points of view, so what I would do is have 5 on top of a building and than congolined the other 4 to the 1st floor so that when 5 would due the other 4 would be safe and would get RP back as only a 6 for morale would lose me a model. I also sent in my DDAs at his shining Spears and my Tesla TBs at his dark reapers. I was able to delete with units on my turn 2.

At the end of that Gane I did lose 2 DDAs, 1 full TB unit, the Scarabs and 1 Triarch Stalker. However the only models he had left was an aux detachment Succubus, 5 rangers and 1 Farseer. If the game had gone on I would of tabled him.

Getting Jinxd, doom was annoying but it took over 1100pts of his army (including 3 wace serpents) to kill my Tesla TBs. I'll be honest in saying that my list did better than I had expected seeing as the Ynarri player had 4 perfect games (20-0) which I stopped and nearly got 1st place.

When in the right hands Necrons can be a good army. Just stay Away from troops. Imo. I only had 5 Cps but ended all my games with 1-2 left. All of my opponents had 9-13 CPs and they were all gone by turn 2.

torblind wrote:

Imotekh can't take the relic. Destroyers might want to be in Sautekh instead of Novokh, although depends. The Annihilation Barge likely won't pull it's weight. Could free up points there

Thank you, how about getting rid of Annihilation Barge and Whip Coils for The C'Tan Nightbringer? And why Destroyers in Sautekh?

 Odrankt wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
Interesting that you beat Ynnari and Imp Soup with mass tomb blades. I really love Tomb Blades but I've found so much Eldar stuff just hard counters them. It's usually a combination of things that ignore modifiers, autohit and also do flat 2 damage that can turn you TB's into giant liabilities. I'd be curious to know how you dealt with Spears and Reapers with that list.

I kept the TBs ontop of buildings for 2+ saves (as they all had shieldvanes) so when jinxd I was back to 3+. Also, we played a rule where the 1st floor of all buildings were Los from all points of view, so what I would do is have 5 on top of a building and than congolined the other 4 to the 1st floor so that when 5 would due the other 4 would be safe and would get RP back as only a 6 for morale would lose me a model. I also sent in my DDAs at his shining Spears and my Tesla TBs at his dark reapers. I was able to delete with units on my turn 2.

At the end of that Gane I did lose 2 DDAs, 1 full TB unit, the Scarabs and 1 Triarch Stalker. However the only models he had left was an aux detachment Succubus, 5 rangers and 1 Farseer. If the game had gone on I would of tabled him.

Getting Jinxd, doom was annoying but it took over 1100pts of his army (including 3 wace serpents) to kill my Tesla TBs. I'll be honest in saying that my list did better than I had expected seeing as the Ynarri player had 4 perfect games (20-0) which I stopped and nearly got 1st place.

When in the right hands Necrons can be a good army. Just stay Away from troops. Imo. I only had 5 Cps but ended all my games with 1-2 left. All of my opponents had 9-13 CPs and they were all gone by turn 2.

Tomb Blades only get Cover if they are 50% covered because they don't have the Infantry keyword. Nice tech choice with the Nightbringer, knowing your meta definitely worked out for you, were your DDAs able to deal with triple Ravager or did those not show up?

elook wrote:

torblind wrote:

Imotekh can't take the relic. Destroyers might want to be in Sautekh instead of Novokh, although depends. The Annihilation Barge likely won't pull it's weight. Could free up points there

Thank you, how about getting rid of Annihilation Barge and Whip Coils for The C'Tan Nightbringer? And why Destroyers in Sautekh?

Destroyers can then advance and shoot which may be something you need if 10"+24" isn't enough.

And yeah, drop the whip coils and AB for the nightbringer sounds good

Tomb Blades only get Cover if they are 50% covered because they don't have the Infantry keyword. Nice tech choice with the Nightbringer, knowing your meta definitely worked out for you, were your DDAs able to deal with triple Ravager or did those not show up?

the buildings had a rim on top so I was able to get 50% obsecured. Also the buildings had windows from which we could shoot from but you get +1 save.

Thank man. Out of 40 People there was 22 Eldar lists including soups and D Eldar. Nightbringer packed a punch. Cosmic fire did a good few wounds we my enemies got to close.

In my 1st game I got 2st and lost 1 DDA to them. It took 3 to kill 1 DDA though. On my turn my 2 T stalkers and other 2 DDAs were able to kill the 3 Ravengers. So I didn't mind losing one when I was able to tank that many hits with lucky saves and QS rolls.

That list looks a lot like my pre faq 2000 point list. Get a lot of eye rolls when I say I hate our troops and never use them. Even had the guy in the GW store try to explain how warriors were our best unit and I needed to spam them

Thing that really surprised me was lack of destroyers. I've been considering scrapping them because they are lascannon magnets. Was that your reasoning too?

Merkabah wrote:
That list looks a lot like my pre faq 2000 point list. Get a lot of eye rolls when I say I hate our troops and never use them. Even had the guy in the GW store try to explain how warriors were our best unit and I needed to spam them

Thing that really surprised me was lack of destroyers. I've been considering scrapping them because they are lascannon magnets. Was that your reasoning too?

Way i been talking to my friends about the lack of using destroyers is that every unit needs to be judged in two ways

attack and defence
.
Every one knows the destroyers have the highest damage output in the codex. but when you factor in all the high damage weapons wont aim at our tanks. the destroyers will get hit by every high ap/damage going. So their defence value in synergy with the rest of the army becomes terrible.

Not saying they are a bad unit. but when against the higher skilled opponents, they are just not worth their points. and against the newer inexperienced players. its just winning more

moonsmite wrote:

Merkabah wrote:
That list looks a lot like my pre faq 2000 point list. Get a lot of eye rolls when I say I hate our troops and never use them. Even had the guy in the GW store try to explain how warriors were our best unit and I needed to spam them

Thing that really surprised me was lack of destroyers. I've been considering scrapping them because they are lascannon magnets. Was that your reasoning too?

Way i been talking to my friends about the lack of using destroyers is that every unit needs to be judged in two ways

attack and defence and context
.
Every one knows the destroyers have the highest damage output in the codex. but when you factor in all the high damage weapons wont aim at our tanks. the destroyers will get hit by every high ap/damage going. So their defence value in synergy with the rest of the army becomes terrible.

Not saying they are a bad unit. but when against the higher skilled opponents, they are just not worth their points. and against the newer inexperienced players. its just winning more

Added a bit. Quantum shielding typically means that the Dmg D6 or Dmg 3+ weapons find other targets. And then suddenly all eyes are on the destroyers.

If you bring dangerous, non-QS fast high-wound targets to them, then this may change. Of course we dont have that many of the

In more friendly games I usually opt to have the destroyers come down in DS using the Nephrekh strat

But sometimes a game is all but decided by the end of the 2nd Battle Round in more competitive games.

Back when the deep strike rules said you could only deep strike inside your own deployment zone in the first battle round it was more of a no brainer.

Thing that really surprised me was lack of destroyers. I've been considering scrapping them because they are lascannon magnets. Was that your reasoning too?

I never like Destroyers. Even before CA18.

I always saw them as a One trick pony (did damage in turn of arrival w/ EO and would die the exact same turn).

So, I never saw the point investing 300pt +1CP for a unit that will kill what they target (unless it had good invul saves and FnP) but will die just as easy on my opponents next turn.

Would rather put those points in a Tark, Tomb Blades, DDA or even a C'tan.

Honestly, in regards to destroyers, they have one job in my lists. Kill the thing that kills them best before it kills them.

They come in, kill the biggest threat to their existence, and then their survivability improves.

Lists with more redundancy tend to make that really, really tough, usually need to play with LoS Blocking in order to keep them alive. Going first helps a lot too.

I've been using 2 units of Destroyers since the codex dropped, but I run them as nephrekh and usually deep strike them with a cronotek. It allows me to put them where I need and usually gives me the chance to delete the biggest threats to them before they have the opportunity to fight back. After that they can usually survive most return fire enough to Rez with the help of the cryptek.

With Destroyers its also a matter of deployment.
They should see the unit that needs to get killed but the other enemy units should not/hardly see them.
On heavy terrain boards this should be doable.

Yep that's what I usually do with my Destroyers. Hide them as best as I can, Veil them forward (preferably into cover) and have them unload on the enemy's biggest threat.

Also for the people who are saying they just go in and die; don't forget that if you place these babies into cover they are quite a tough nut to crack. It often takes between half or 3/4th of my opponents army to wipe them out.
Also thanks to the psychological effect of RP, which makes them wanna wipe out the unit. Even to the point of them using very inefficient weapons to take them down.

Doctoralex wrote:
Yep that's what I usually do with my Destroyers. Hide them as best as I can, Veil them forward (preferably into cover) and have them unload on the enemy's biggest threat.

Also for the people who are saying they just go in and die; don't forget that if you place these babies into cover they are quite a tough nut to crack. It often takes between half or 3/4th of my opponents army to wipe them out.
Also thanks to the psychological effect of RP, which makes them wanna wipe out the unit. Even to the point of them using very inefficient weapons to take them down.

Problem that I've been grappling with is that a 2+ save with no invulnerable in an army that craps all over lascannons because of QS is really bad. Because your enemy has lascannons (or lascannon equivalents) and generally only one good target for them.

Merkabah wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
Yep that's what I usually do with my Destroyers. Hide them as best as I can, Veil them forward (preferably into cover) and have them unload on the enemy's biggest threat.

Also for the people who are saying they just go in and die; don't forget that if you place these babies into cover they are quite a tough nut to crack. It often takes between half or 3/4th of my opponents army to wipe them out.
Also thanks to the psychological effect of RP, which makes them wanna wipe out the unit. Even to the point of them using very inefficient weapons to take them down.

Problem that I've been grappling with is that a 2+ save with no invulnerable in an army that craps all over lascannons because of QS is really bad. Because your enemy has lascannons (or lascannon equivalents) and generally only one good target for them.

To be honest, most of my opponents don't run lascannons against me any more. Tends to hurt my vehicles more now since they dont use them.
But it helps my destroyers.

I just try to run enough immediate different threats so that my Destroyers aren't solely targeted. VOD Immortals, flanking Wraiths and deep striking Tomb Stalker all fairly big distractions. They do still get targeted a lot though

So I think destroyers are fragile, but what makes tomb blades not in the exact same boat? Is the -1 really so enormous of a difference given what you're talking about?

drakerocket wrote:
So I think destroyers are fragile, but what makes tomb blades not in the exact same boat? Is the -1 really so enormous of a difference given what you're talking about?

That and they're not an imediate threat in the same way. Destroyers kill whatever they lay their eyes upon. Tomb blades play the long game, slowly trickling back with RP, have good but not devastating fire power, have utility with their good movement to reach far away objectives. These qualities tend not to draw fire the same way. Units easier to wipe out, also having lower levels of damage output, such as infantry, are often targeted instead. Perhaps with the exception of damage 2 weapons, which are cut out for tomb blades.

Of course if you play your tomb blades well, they will learn.

It also helps a little that Blades aren’t 50ppm

drakerocket wrote:
So I think destroyers are fragile, but what makes tomb blades not in the exact same boat? Is the -1 really so enormous of a difference given what you're talking about?

Tomb Blades are probably* our best units in the entire codex. When compared to Destroyers they do different roles. Tomb Blades (TBs) can zip across the board grabbing objectives or can be congolined to hold two objectives. Can be a good screen for your C'tan, Cloaktek or CCB because they have FLY (Yes, the CCB doesn't buff TBs but the TB can keep up with the CCB which is nice).

The Destroyers. Well, they just Destroy things. They pretty much go into cover for 2+ save point at something, use EP, and now they delete something they point at.

While TBs don't put out as much DMG as Destroyers can in 1 turn, TBs will put out more reliable DMG as the game goes on than Destroyers can.

The pros to TBs are; 9 models per unit so better chance are survival + RP, have -1 to hit so can tank a lot of hits, produce a good quality of dakka, don't need any buffs or Stratgems to be good. Just 4+ RP from Cloaktek. Can be kitted with 3+, 5++ or ignore cover and so more durability than most of our other units.

Cons to TBs - bikers so need to be 50% covered to get +1 save... That's pretty much it.

Pros to Destroyers - have infantry keyword, can** Destroy something they point at.

Cons to Destroyers - only 6 per squad so easily killed, need help from ChromoCryptek to get 5++, need a 1cp gem for them to reliably kill what they target, very hard to get RP on them as most people will shot them to Oblivion, need a gem to become the Destroyers they should be. Fire magnet till dead.

When you see TBs and Destroyers on the filed ask yourself. Which unit looks more dangerous and which unit will die quicker.

* - definitely our best unit in the Codex. Anyone saying otherwise hasn't played them or doesn't know how to use them

** - i say can because without EP they don't do that much DMG. So, do you really want to spend an extra CP just to make a 300pt unit preform good? I'd rather out those points in units that are already good and don't need CPs to preform better.

Just to add my two cents to the comparison:

I think Destroyers are cool but I too dont like the idea of investing 300points plus 1CP into something where I have to roll enough 5s with a reroll, hope the opponent doesnt make his invulnerable saves AND that dies next turn after arriving.

Especially the „roll 5s“ part is where I question my dice luck. Ive never killed ANYTHING while pointing my destroyers at it. Yes I did some damage here and there, sometimes even a lot of dmg but I always wondered if it was worth it.

PLUS PLUS: Then again IF I roll enough 5s and the opponent fails his saves I roll 1s and 2s for dmg...because necrons dont have flat numbers of attacks or dmg...randomcrons!

Remember - If played correctly a unit of Destroyers could soak up fire (and die) and force your enemy to change his plans to achieve that, allowing your tomb blades to live longer, out maneuver him and make a late game impact.

Its obviously very circumstantial but one way I've been able to keep my destroyers alive is using them to movement block vehicles against terrain once they've charged

Been lurking in this thread for a while and figured I would offer up some of my thoughts and a list I have been working on:

First, the list:


Main idea of the list is that the destroyers are useful for shredding heavy infantry or vehicles with the strat (yea rolling 5's to wound feels bad but against normal vehicles you will still do a decent chunk of damage). Wraiths usually advance and charge something turn 1, and can do a good chunk rerolling to hit. The lychguard get MWBD and then veil to charge whatever needs to die (needing an 8 now because they get +1 to charge rolls, hitting on 2's rerolling to hit. I usually save a cp to reroll a die if need be, if its a matchup where they have to get into combat, you can also take the reroll charge distances warlord trait on the overlord). The tesla immortals and tomb blades basically just remove infantry while the warriors can be either a screen or rapid fire stuff at ap-2.

In my experience DDA have never been worth it, I find they are too swingy or too low shot against what necrons really need to kill (castellans, where 3 DDA only do like 5 damage to it on average). So far with this list I am 2-1, so far the unit that has done the least has actually been the tomb blades, so I may swap them out.

Your tombblades are dying because your running them with 4+ saves and not in a full unit of 9. Least give some of them Shield vanes and the rest Shadowlooms for 3+ and 5++. And make it s full size unit.

the issue wasn't that they were dying, its that they did not do very much. Also I only own 6 and getting more isn't an option atm

Heeya folks, was thinking of this list for an upcoming ITC tourney. Note that it is a MONO-faction tourney. Absolutely no flavours of soup are served:

Sautekh Battalion:
Immotekh, Warlord
Cryptek

3x5 Tesla Immortals

9x Tomb Blades /w Tesla , 7 with shield vanes
6x Destroyers

Triach Stalker

Sautekh Spearhead

Lord /w Hyperphase Sword.

3x DDA


What do you think? Too much anti-tank? Especially since it's mono-faction, so Knights probably won't be on the table.

Doctoralex wrote:
Heeya folks, was thinking of this list for an upcoming ITC tourney. Note that it is a MONO-faction tourney. Absolutely no flavours of soup are served:

Sautekh Battalion:
Immotekh, Warlord
Cryptek

3x5 Tesla Immortals

9x Tomb Blades /w Tesla , 7 with shield vanes
6x Destroyers

Triach Stalker

Sautekh Spearhead

Lord /w Hyperphase Sword.

3x DDA


What do you think? Too much anti-tank? Especially since it's mono-faction, so Knights probably won't be on the table.

I can't say what monofaction exactly means for your meta. IG still can put down quite a large number of tanks. However, no, I don't think your list is too packed with AT. I think it looks great. I have a very similar list. The only comment I have is the Lord. You're paying 68pts for a single CP, actually, as he has just about 0 utility in your list. If you removed him and put the DDAs in your battalion, you'd miss a CP and gain 68 pts (especially, since both detachments are sautekh). With those 68 pts you can either add more TB's and make 2 groups instead of one, or add immortals, or add scarabs for screening and protection. (If I were you, I'd also pay at least a cloak for my cryptek)

The lord goes with the immortals, to re-roll 1s to wound. A DDA works against hordes as well with its gauss flayers. No, its not to much anti tank. A DDA can epic fail if you roll really bad. Thats why you use at least two, to even the odds. I would remove a tomb blade and a destroyer to add some scarabs.

 p5freak wrote:
The lord goes with the immortals, to re-roll 1s to wound. A DDA works against hordes as well with its gauss flayers. No, its not to much anti tank. A DDA can epic fail if you roll really bad. Thats why you use at least two, to even the odds. I would remove a tomb blade and a destroyer to add some scarabs.

Yeah but only have 15 Immortals, so he's not doing much.With three squads of 10, it might be worth it but not for minimum squads. Drop the Lord.

But yeah, get some scarabs. I also question how worthwhile Imotehk is going to be without more Immortals too. You could drop to an Overlord and save another 60+ points.

I've had oulandish success with Imotekh buffing 2x5 Teslamortals

I would say it was fine as is personally

Thinking about running a Mephrit Brigade.

Prominently featuring:
50/50 split between Tesla and gauss immortals
3x dda
Nightbringer

Anyone try something similar? Or do we waste too many points on elite and FA slots? (I just want a ton of immortals really).

weaver9 wrote:
Thinking about running a Mephrit Brigade.

Prominently featuring:
50/50 split between Tesla and gauss immortals
3x dda
Nightbringer

Anyone try something similar? Or do we waste too many points on elite and FA slots? (I just want a ton of immortals really).

What elites are you looking to bring?

Why bother with a brigade if all you want is immortals? Battallion is generally a better idea, unless you are very limited in number of detachments.

hortsmann wrote:
Why bother with a brigade if all you want is immortals? Battallion is generally a better idea, unless you are very limited in number of detachments.

Yeah should be fairly straightforward to set up what you want or need, compared to the requirements of various detachments.

Likely one or more of the three elite options will feel like a tax in the brigade, on the other hand, 4 HQs to support 6 troop choices is probably less unreasonable, plus you get more CPs.

I won a 2000 point match today at my local 40k meetup, it was the Tactical Cascade mission from CA2018 against Black Templars. I tried to play for the objectives as best as I could while grabbing cover as well. The match ended on the 5th round with Necrons 7VPs to Black Templars 3 VPs.

 Tauris_Blazestar wrote:
I won a 2000 point match today at my local 40k meetup, it was the Tactical Cascade mission from CA2018 against Black Templars. I tried to play for the objectives as best as I could while grabbing cover as well. The match ended on the 5th round with Necrons 7VPs to Black Templars 3 VPs.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [30 PL, -3CP, 540pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynastic Heirlooms [-3CP]: Dynastic Heirlooms: 2 Extra Artefacts

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 95pts]: Chronometron, Staff of Light

Lord [5 PL, 75pts]: Staff of Light

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 110pts]: 10x Necron Warrior

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 110pts]: 10x Necron Warrior

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [48 PL, 885pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 95pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Chronometron, Staff of Light

+ Elites +

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver [12 PL, 225pts]: Power of the C'tan: Antimatter Meteor, Power of the C'tan: Cosmic Fire

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs [6 PL, 117pts]: 9x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Destroyers [15 PL, 250pts]
. 4x Destroyer: 4x Gauss Cannon
. Heavy Destroyer: Heavy Gauss Cannon

Tomb Blades [10 PL, 198pts]
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [32 PL, 567pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh

+ HQ +

Overlord [6 PL, 93pts]: Artefact: Voidreaper, Warscythe
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Sautekh): Hyperlogical Strategist

Overlord [6 PL, 104pts]: Artefact: Sempiternal Weave, Voidscythe

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: Gauss Blaster, 10x Immortal

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 110pts]: 10x Necron Warrior

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 110pts]: 10x Necron Warrior

++ Total: [110 PL, -3CP, 1992pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

funny. looks like a list I'd never build myself. A little bit of many things and relics I have never played. Nice that you won.

Did the Sempiternal Weave have any impact on the game?

It's always seemed like one of the more lacklustre relics to me.

dapperbandit wrote:
Did the Sempiternal Weave have any impact on the game?

It's always seemed like one of the more lacklustre relics to me.

Once the Overlord with the Sempiternal Weave finally made it into combat in the last rounds it didn't seem to make much of a difference. Paying for the extra artefacts was a bit of a waste since the only one that had an affect on the field is the Veil of course.

 Tauris_Blazestar wrote:

dapperbandit wrote:
Did the Sempiternal Weave have any impact on the game?

It's always seemed like one of the more lacklustre relics to me.

Once the Overlord with the Sempiternal Weave finally made it into combat in the last rounds it didn't seem to make much of a difference. Paying for the extra artefacts was a bit of a waste since the only one that had an affect on the field is the Veil of course.

Nephrekh destroyers are very mobile already, I would have thought the veil was a bit lackluster on them too...

I have a 1500 pt game vs Blood Angels coming up. Thinking I might run this list and see what happens. Thoughts?

Blood Angel's are really gonna want to get the jump (heh) on those Destroyers. I know you probably don't WANT to make them into an Aux detachment for Nephrekh and keep them in Deep Strike, but you might want to consider it.

Also Scarabs are amazing as Novokh because that rerolling really offsets the WS4+ they have.

As a BA player i wouldnt advise going melee against them, they hit really hard. Shoot them from far away, and screen with scarabs. They die quite fast to tesla, unless your opponent brings SG with a sang ancient and the standard of sacrifice, those guys are hard to kill. Watch out for captn slamguinius, mephiston, librarian dreadnought. Those can easily wipe out six destroyers in one turn. I suggest mephrit tesla immortals. If he charges them any 6 you roll will be 3 hits with AP-1.

Actually, going to melee is perfectly fine if you get off the charge first to strike first.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Actually, going to melee is perfectly fine if you get off the charge first to strike first.

Charge with what ? Immortals ? Destroyers ? The only real melee unit in his army are the lychguard. If i want to go into melee with BA i would bring wraith.

 p5freak wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Actually, going to melee is perfectly fine if you get off the charge first to strike first.

Charge with what ? Immortals ? Destroyers ? The only real melee unit in his army are the lychguard. If i want to go into melee with BA i would bring wraith.

If it's a squad of only a couple of dudes left, it is perfectly fine to be ultra aggressive and charge to finish the squad off, even if an Immortal two died in the process.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or if Slamguinus only had a wound or two left as well. You can only pass a 3+/5+++ so many times.

I should mention, I believe this is going to be a casual, friendly game vs BA. Not sure that helps.

 iGuy91 wrote:
I should mention, I believe this is going to be a casual, friendly game vs BA. Not sure that helps.

I kinda assumed that because Lychguard.

It would still bode well to remove a few for some Scarabs though. That'll give you more board control, which you severely lack.

I have to say, I'm a little impressed by the diversity of the Necron lists at LVO, especially considering there are not a ton of them. That is a good sign at least that the internal balance is pretty solid (even if the external balance still leaves a lot to be desired). It's not just Seraptek Walker or destroyer wing ad nauseum. DDAs are in every list if I recall correctly, and at least a squad of immortals, but from there you have lists that focus on a fair variety of units.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
I have to say, I'm a little impressed by the diversity of the Necron lists at LVO, especially considering there are not a ton of them. That is a good sign at least that the internal balance is pretty solid (even if the external balance still leaves a lot to be desired). It's not just Seraptek Walker or destroyer wing ad nauseum. DDAs are in every list if I recall correctly, and at least a squad of immortals, but from there you have lists that focus on a fair variety of units.

But as you said they probably get stomped anyway...We literally have no competitive list. Maybe DDA „spam“ plus Destroyers.

Well, I don't think any of us expect to win. Top 8 is almost as unlikely. I think that in the end, most of us are shooting for a a fun time and a winning record. Picking up enough points to get back into the top ten Necron players for the ITC season would be nice for me as well.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Well, I don't think any of us expect to win. Top 8 is almost as unlikely. I think that in the end, most of us are shooting for a a fun time and a winning record. Picking up enough points to get back into the top ten Necron players for the ITC season would be nice for me as well.

Dont want to make LVO bad for you.

Wish you much fun and best of luck as a necron player myself!

Its just that im getting more and more into competitive play and I have established 40k as my MAIN hobby so to speak...its making me sad and partly angry to see the situation the necrons are in right know.

Well, you can be competitive with them, but it takes a lot of practice and games. The reality is all other things being equal, we will be at a disadvantage vs the top lists, but I have played top players and they are not insurmountable. Dice can go hot or cold, and even the best guys make mistakes.

I've played Necrons since 4th edition, from the horrors of using the 3rd edition dex in 5th to the other extreme of utterly dominating in 6th. I'd rather be on the lower end of the spectrum than the other. Every win is sweeter, you don't have to hear all the whining about how broken your army is, and you tend to offer something that players don't see every other time they step up to the table.

I had a game with a cocky guy back in early 5th that kind of mockingly apologized for what he was going to do to my army. I simply told him, that yeah, he'd probably win because he had a stronger codex, but if he lost, he just lost to the worst army in the game. It didn't go well for him, and it still stands out as one of my favorite victories

So, i'm looking at a whole lot of stuff about GSC. Looks like a rough matchup for us. As always...looks like tesla immortals and large max units of scarabs will be absolutely key to keep our shooters shooting.

 iGuy91 wrote:
So, i'm looking at a whole lot of stuff about GSC. Looks like a rough matchup for us. As always...looks like tesla immortals and large max units of scarabs will be absolutely key to keep our shooters shooting.

Times arrow does really well against GSC. Most of the new charcters are 4 wounds. If you roll a 5+, or 4+ for a T Vault, you can straight up remove that charcter. Or model.

Aldo they're not ambush assaulting like they used to it seems, which gives us a breather for a turn or two, and time to fire the Teslas

 Odrankt wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
So, i'm looking at a whole lot of stuff about GSC. Looks like a rough matchup for us. As always...looks like tesla immortals and large max units of scarabs will be absolutely key to keep our shooters shooting.

Times arrow does really well against GSC. Most of the new charcters are 4 wounds. If you roll a 5+, or 4+ for a T Vault, you can straight up remove that charcter. Or model.

Fair, believe it or not though, i have never used Time's Arrow. I only ever use Sky of Falling Stars, Cosmic Fire, and Antimatter Meteor.
Maybe this army is a good matchup for that power.

I had a 2 vs 1 game recently where I brought a silly Novokh 1k list:

Overlord + Veil + Voidscythe + Reroll charge WL trait

10x Lychguard
Nightbringer

6x Wraith
6x Scarabs
5x Scarabs

The list was really fun and surprisingly effective, and the HQ turned out to be a nice cheap way of getting Lychguard into combat. MWBD + reroll charges gives a 66% chance of a successful charge after teleporting (the odds would be higher when you include the option to CP reroll 1 of the charge dice).

I decided to add another 1000pts of "sensible" units and was surprised how much stuff I could get. It feels like it's a pretty good army:



The Novokh outrider should be able to keep opponents occupied while the Battalion does its shooting thing.

I used it to great effect against T'au once, I quite like that power

When I get a Deciever, he'll get Cosmic Fire and Time's Arrow, because he's always gonna be in range

Focusing your list into melee is super fun with Necrons: we are absolutely death incarnate in some match ups but especially against T3 stuff that AP-3 devours.

I know Kutlakh is a thing but I really don't like how bogus it feels to take the Maynarkh Dynasty as what ever Codex Dynasty you fancy and then using a Forgeworld Datasheet for which no non proxy/kitbash model exists.

I just wish they'd give us an HQ model that allows advance and charge or at least boosts movement.

dapperbandit wrote:
Focusing your list into melee is super fun with Necrons: we are absolutely death incarnate in some match ups but especially against T3 stuff that AP-3 devours.

I know Kutlakh is a thing but I really don't like how bogus it feels to take the Maynarkh Dynasty as what ever Codex Dynasty you fancy and then using a Forgeworld Datasheet for which no non proxy/kitbash model exists.

I just wish they'd give us an HQ model that allows advance and charge or at least boosts movement.

Would be nice with some HQ that could go policing with the praetorians. But then you're suddenly talking the Triarch and likely only the silent king which.. I dunno.. is a bit too strong, more a primarch class character at 400 points. It'd be nice to have a smooth working army without resorting to more power creep

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

The list was really fun and surprisingly effective, and the HQ turned out to be a nice cheap way of getting Lychguard into combat. MWBD + reroll charges gives a 66% chance of a successful charge after teleporting (the odds would be higher when you include the option to CP reroll 1 of the charge dice).

I have been running this as well, 10 lychguard and 6 wraiths in a Novokh outrider and it really works wonders for taking pressure off the rest of the army, since those wraiths are usually making it into combat turn 1 and the lychguard have a good chance as well

wow - 3 overlords! Did the lack of 5++ vs ranged, or 4+ RP hurt at all, or was the tri-overlords well worth it?

Yeah, I do have a soft spot for Novokh. I think melee necrons are pretty fun and viable, the only problem is you need to find a way to get them stuck in, because Lychguard are bloody slow.

hvg3akaek wrote:
wow - 3 overlords! Did the lack of 5++ vs ranged, or 4+ RP hurt at all, or was the tri-overlords well worth it?

In my experience the 4+ almost never matters because people tend to just focus units until they are dead, which the 5++ also does not help much with. 3" range just is too short most the time. I usually go overlord and lord, that way the tesla immortals get to reroll 1's

Yeah, the chrnometron really isn't that good due to its short range and weak strength. Its only useful for warrior blob, as they have the numbers to make that 5++ count and are pretty slow. Its expensive too, which is the final nail in the coffin.
I find myself using the cloak more often. It gives extra mobility, which allows you to quickly reposition the cryptek and provide buffs when needed, and he's excellent as a Veil of Darkness carrier.

Fair enough - I usually keep my immortals close together, so the 3" doesn't matter as much. Then again, my group of friends don't often get past 1500 games, so the "destroy a unit with 5++ in one round" doesn't trigger that often.

dapperbandit wrote:
Focusing your list into melee is super fun with Necrons: we are absolutely death incarnate in some match ups but especially against T3 stuff that AP-3 devours.

I know Kutlakh is a thing but I really don't like how bogus it feels to take the Maynarkh Dynasty as what ever Codex Dynasty you fancy and then using a Forgeworld Datasheet for which no non proxy/kitbash model exists.

I just wish they'd give us an HQ model that allows advance and charge or at least boosts movement.

Don't ever think of it as bogus, because remember the price point for Kutlakh.

Quixeemoto wrote:


I have been running this as well, 10 lychguard and 6 wraiths in a Novokh outrider and it really works wonders for taking pressure off the rest of the army, since those wraiths are usually making it into combat turn 1 and the lychguard have a good chance as well

I can never decide between Scythes or sword and board on the Lychguard.

The scythes can do some serious damage. If you want to be silly you can do: MWBD + Novokh + the +1 strength strat + fight again strat = 40, 2s rerolled to hit, S8 AP-4 D2 attacks. That's overkill on a Knight. Also because they are teleporting into combat they can be hidden somewhere safe until needed, so defense is less important.

On the other hand, with dispersion shields they are much safer if they fail the charge. The dispersion shield amplification strat gives them a 3++, making them basically the same as the Wraith stat wise. Two 3++ T5 multi wound units rushing at the enemy can draw a huge amount of firepower away from the rest of the army.

wow - 3 overlords! Did the lack of 5++ vs ranged, or 4+ RP hurt at all, or was the tri-overlords well worth it?

Crypteks are auto includes if you are using warriors as troops, and are also very tempting to take alongside Warscythe Lychguard. They don't do a lot for immortals though, the 5++ comes up much less often, and the +1 RP gets you one model extra on average from 6 deaths. That doesn't come close to the buff MWBD provides to Tesla Immortals. The Overlord is also useful on his own, having a hugely better stat line for about the same point cost.

In this particular list the Lychguard need MWBD to help pull off a charge, and the Tesla Immortals all want it too. 3 Overlords is just enough.

Warscythe lychguard should love the chronometron, come to think of it. Their biggest weakness (aside from their speed) is the lack of invul, which makes them considerably more fragile than their shield counterpart. Whilst the chrono is only 5++, you do get a better RP on top of it, so in theory it comes out roughly the same as shieldguard with no cryptek.

You can give the chronotek a veil of darkness to teleport them closer to try to get a sneaky charge off.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

I can never decide between Scythes or sword and board on the Lychguard.

The answer is simple. Dont use them. They are 28 ppm. With scythes they do decent damage, but die to fast, with sword and shield they dont do enough damage, but can take a hit. A solution to this problem would be mixed weapons, all other can do that, but necrons cant

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You can give the chronotek a veil of darkness to teleport them closer to try to get a sneaky charge off.

The issue is that if they make the charge it is unlikely they will be in range of the cryptek, so it doesn't help you after the charge. If they fail the charge they are probably dead anyways. In general i tend to play on boards with a good amount of terrain so with clever movement when charging usually you can place them into cover so they have a 2+, which means unless someone is shooting you with ap -4 weapons the 5++ doesn't matter. Also an overlord gives them +1 to charge and hit so as someone mentioned above it makes them very deadly on the charge against knights with +1 strength. You need a full unit though because a castellan on average dice kills like 3 or 4 of them in overwatch.

 p5freak wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

I can never decide between Scythes or sword and board on the Lychguard.

The answer is simple. Dont use them. They are 28 ppm. With scythes they do decent damage, but die to fast, with sword and shield they dont do enough damage, but can take a hit. A solution to this problem would be mixed weapons, all other can do that, but necrons cant

I could imagine a mixed unit of Novokh with 2 Swords/Shields and 3 Warscythes makes a good TAC choice. feth our army though!

Yesterday Alex Fennel used his Pinkcrons to battle against Marc Merrill's Eldar mixed army in a charity exhibition match:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/376823401?t=00h13m54s

Thoughts? Comments?

So just finishing Game 1 at the LVO, how well did the Necrons do in general? I believe there are currently 2 in the top 10, though doesn't matter much at this time.

 Draco765 wrote:
Yesterday Alex Fennel used his Pinkcrons to battle against Marc Merrill's Eldar mixed army in a charity exhibition match:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/376823401?t=00h13m54s

Thoughts? Comments?

I love Pinkcrons no matter who uses them.

They have a name.

The Lovecrons

elook wrote:
So just finishing Game 1 at the LVO, how well did the Necrons do in general? I believe there are currently 2 in the top 10, though doesn't matter much at this time.

List of Thomas Christensson who ended 5th place for day 1.
https://i.imgur.com/2w3U3ry.png

Got to say, it is definitely an odd list.

image of the top 6 ranks from BCP:
https://i.redd.it/djaji0ep7if21.jpg

 Draco765 wrote:

elook wrote:
So just finishing Game 1 at the LVO, how well did the Necrons do in general? I believe there are currently 2 in the top 10, though doesn't matter much at this time.

List of Thomas Christensson who ended 5th place for day 1.
https://i.imgur.com/2w3U3ry.png

Got to say, it is definitely an odd list.

image of the top 6 ranks from BCP:
https://i.redd.it/djaji0ep7if21.jpg

Nice.
But it doesn't say anything.
It will become interesting when the players in the top bracket meet.

 Draco765 wrote:

List of Thomas Christensson who ended 5th place for day 1.
https://i.imgur.com/2w3U3ry.png

Got to say, it is definitely an odd list.

It is an odd list. The lord is useless in the nihilakh detachment. Two ghost arks for 2x10 warriors ? Why ? I dont think this list will win anything from now on. If it does i wanna know his tactic.

Yeah I'm pretty bedaffled.

I guess warriors also serve some screening duty then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's definitely a fast list though. Everything only the lord and cryptek would be foot slogging. Immortals probably staying close to 24" if possible. dunno.

I'm more confused about the CCB not being given the relic Staff. 3 Warscythe attacks aren't gonna do much when that's the only melee element outside the Wraiths.

 iGuy91 wrote:
I have a 1500 pt game vs Blood Angels coming up. Thinking I might run this list and see what happens. Thoughts?

Spoiler:

Novokh Battalion

Lord - VoidBlade, VoD
Overlord - Blood Scythe, Immortal Pride

x10 Gauss Immortals
x10 Gauss Immortals
x9 Tesla Immortals

x6 Destroyers
x10 Lychguard with Sword and Shield

x2 Doomsday Arks

Ends up giving me 1498 points, and 7cp to work with

Ended up having a change of plans, and ended up playing eldar instead with slight alterations to the list.
Surprisingly, the lychguard made their turn 1 charge, killed their target, and in the subsequent shooting phase, dealt more mortal wounds out with the strategem than they took from shooting before wading through a whole bunch of dark reapers. Overall very solid performance.
Good times.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm more confused about the CCB not being given the relic Staff. 3 Warscythe attacks aren't gonna do much when that's the only melee element outside the Wraiths.

Since he has the warscythe, defiantly can not use the staff, but we do not know what artifacts he deiced to use because they do not have to be on the submitted list as you pick them before the start of the game.

 Draco765 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm more confused about the CCB not being given the relic Staff. 3 Warscythe attacks aren't gonna do much when that's the only melee element outside the Wraiths.

Since he has the warscythe, defiantly can not use the staff, but we do not know what artifacts he deiced to use because they do not have to be on the submitted list as you pick them before the start of the game.

I'm saying it would make more sense to start him with the Staff in the first place and use the Relic slot on it.

Not that it mattered....the top 8 at lvo were 3 Eldar Soups, 3 Castellan/Loyal32, a tau, and a chaos.


What a bore.

 p5freak wrote:

 Draco765 wrote:

List of Thomas Christensson who ended 5th place for day 1.
https://i.imgur.com/2w3U3ry.png

Got to say, it is definitely an odd list.

It is an odd list. The lord is useless in the nihilakh detachment. Two ghost arks for 2x10 warriors ? Why ? I dont think this list will win anything from now on. If it does i wanna know his tactic.

The one thing that comes to me is that a Ghost Ark has the firepower of 10 warriors, but for only 35 points more it also has increased maneuverability and resilience? Like 10 warriors vs a Ghost Ark, the Ghost Ark wins by a mile for not much more.

But yeah, odd list. I think it's an anomaly, that looks more like a list of stuff he had lying around that he could build an army with.

So do you guys have all comers lists that you rarely deviate from? Or do you change up your lists frequently?

I like to build towards a list that I'm happy with and then I'll keep it until things (codex, points values) change. It feels more personalised than sweeping changes between games

For example after CA came out I remade my 1500p all comers list below. I might occasionally change it up a bit, but this is my bread and butter

IanVanCheese wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 Draco765 wrote:

List of Thomas Christensson who ended 5th place for day 1.
https://i.imgur.com/2w3U3ry.png

Got to say, it is definitely an odd list.

It is an odd list. The lord is useless in the nihilakh detachment. Two ghost arks for 2x10 warriors ? Why ? I dont think this list will win anything from now on. If it does i wanna know his tactic.

The one thing that comes to me is that a Ghost Ark has the firepower of 10 warriors, but for only 35 points more it also has increased maneuverability and resilience? Like 10 warriors vs a Ghost Ark, the Ghost Ark wins by a mile for not much more.

But yeah, odd list. I think it's an anomaly, that looks more like a list of stuff he had lying around that he could build an army with.

I'm not seeing that at all. It's deliberately leaning hard on quantum shielding banking on all the heavy AT being brought to counter Knights and the two ghost Arks are mitigating the Necron mobility problem by being able to deliver objsec troops to contest center board objectives for hold more primary.

It's hard to get the killed more against this list with all the QS and the only killing based secondary that's really viable is BGH (which might end up being a trap choice without a lot of 2D or D3D weapons available), forcing the enemy into Old School, Recon, or another secondary they might not be used to taking. Meanwhile 3 DDA + 2 ghost Arks and their warriors should comfortably pick up killed one or killed more by shredding infantry/tanks.

RogueApiary wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 Draco765 wrote:

List of Thomas Christensson who ended 5th place for day 1.
https://i.imgur.com/2w3U3ry.png

Got to say, it is definitely an odd list.

It is an odd list. The lord is useless in the nihilakh detachment. Two ghost arks for 2x10 warriors ? Why ? I dont think this list will win anything from now on. If it does i wanna know his tactic.

The one thing that comes to me is that a Ghost Ark has the firepower of 10 warriors, but for only 35 points more it also has increased maneuverability and resilience? Like 10 warriors vs a Ghost Ark, the Ghost Ark wins by a mile for not much more.

But yeah, odd list. I think it's an anomaly, that looks more like a list of stuff he had lying around that he could build an army with.

I'm not seeing that at all. It's deliberately leaning hard on quantum shielding banking on all the heavy AT being brought to counter Knights and the two ghost Arks are mitigating the Necron mobility problem by being able to deliver objsec troops to contest center board objectives for hold more primary.

It's hard to get the killed more against this list with all the QS and the only killing based secondary that's really viable is BGH (which might end up being a trap choice without a lot of 2D or D3D weapons available), forcing the enemy into Old School, Recon, or another secondary they might not be used to taking. Meanwhile 3 DDA + 2 ghost Arks and their warriors should comfortably pick up killed one or killed more by shredding infantry/tanks.

Yeah I guess so. Clever list, but only really works within the confines of ITC. Hopefully it doesn't turn out to be the new necron hotness, because I don't want to build 3 ghost arks lol

Hey guys!

I was gifted with some Necrons 2 years ago, when 7th was finishing. Now I'm building a Drukhari army (I like the looks of the Dark Elves), but I have like 1000 points of Necrons hanging around, waiting to be painted.
I have an Overlord, a Triarch Stalker, 10 warriors, 10 Immortals, some scarabs, a Cryptek and a box of Praets/Lychguard.
My doubt comes with that last box, I like both Praetorians and Lychguard mini-wise, but I'm not sure which ones are more useful in a game. Right now I'm all in Sword and Shield Lychguard, but I could use some help from you, more experienced guys.

Thanks!

 Denegaar wrote:
Hey guys!

I was gifted with some Necrons 2 years ago, when 7th was finishing. Now I'm building a Drukhari army (I like the looks of the Dark Elves), but I have like 1000 points of Necrons hanging around, waiting to be painted.
I have an Overlord, a Triarch Stalker, 10 warriors, 10 Immortals, some scarabs, a Cryptek and a box of Praets/Lychguard.
My doubt comes with that last box, I like both Praetorians and Lychguard mini-wise, but I'm not sure which ones are more useful in a game. Right now I'm all in Sword and Shield Lychguard, but I could use some help from you, more experienced guys.

Thanks!

Depends on how you want to play.

You sort of lack a decent delivery mechanism for your lychguard (flyer, monolith, teleporting HQs)

For casual games I think praetorians would be more fun. They don't break (which dont matter with only 5 models), they pack a decent punch with 3 attacks S5-3 in shooting, and the S6 pistol is nice against T3 targets. They won't be much point against strong characters and larger vehicles though, but jumping around, clearing infantry that don't really want to be in CC (fire warriors, guardians, space marines), they could be quite useful. There's also a stratagem to give them +1 to hit.

I kinda like their utility but admitadly I don't get to field them alot, but I plan to. They also had a nice point drop last FAQ.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or WRT to delivery, I guess the Veil of Darkness (relic) is pretty much as good as it gets anywah.

Ghost Arks are underrated after the points drop. I wasn't able to get mine ready for LVO, but I have plans to try them out for this next season. The Ark platform is a fantastic unit for us:

- Very resilient against anti tank weapons, especially Castellans

- Fast with a 12" move

- Flys so it's practically impossible to wrap and ignores terrain

- Has a long body that can be very useful in cutting off ground based movement for your opponents

- Has very nice anti infantry shooting.

When you consider all of this, it would be one of the best transports in the game, except it sucks with what it can actually transport.

As IanVanCheese pointed out, for the points, it's well worth the 35 pts upgrade vs a squad of warriors. You lose objective secured, but frankly I've had very few games where that has mattered enough to make or break the game.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Ghost Arks are underrated after the points drop. I wasn't able to get mine ready for LVO, but I have plans to try them out for this next season. The Ark platform is a fantastic unit for us:

- Very resilient against anti tank weapons, especially Castellans

- Fast with a 12" move

- Flys so it's practically impossible to wrap and ignores terrain

- Has a long body that can be very useful in cutting off ground based movement for your opponents

- Has very nice anti infantry shooting.

When you consider all of this, it would be one of the best transports in the game, except it sucks with what it can actually transport.

As IanVanCheese pointed out, for the points, it's well worth the 35 pts upgrade vs a squad of warriors. You lose objective secured, but frankly I've had very few games where that has mattered enough to make or break the game.

I wonder if Mechrons might be back on the cards tbh, three units of warriors ridding in Ghost Arks. You need a troop to take each Ark anyway, having something pop out behind the Arks to hold objectives could be viable. Sadly the spindly models won't block LOS to units behind them. Go nuts on Doomssday Arks and Tomb Blades for the rest of the list. Gonna have a play with Battlescribe, see what I can come up with.

6 Arks - how awesome would that be?!

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Ghost Arks are underrated after the points drop. I wasn't able to get mine ready for LVO, but I have plans to try them out for this next season. The Ark platform is a fantastic unit for us:

- Very resilient against anti tank weapons, especially Castellans

- Fast with a 12" move

- Flys so it's practically impossible to wrap and ignores terrain

- Has a long body that can be very useful in cutting off ground based movement for your opponents

- Has very nice anti infantry shooting.

When you consider all of this, it would be one of the best transports in the game, except it sucks with what it can actually transport.

As IanVanCheese pointed out, for the points, it's well worth the 35 pts upgrade vs a squad of warriors. You lose objective secured, but frankly I've had very few games where that has mattered enough to make or break the game.

I wonder if Mechrons might be back on the cards tbh, three units of warriors ridding in Ghost Arks. You need a troop to take each Ark anyway, having something pop out behind the Arks to hold objectives could be viable. Sadly the spindly models won't block LOS to units behind them. Go nuts on Doomssday Arks and Tomb Blades for the rest of the list. Gonna have a play with Battlescribe, see what I can come up with.

It ain't the new thing. It didn't end up placing that well, the top 8 was the same old same old.

 iGuy91 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Ghost Arks are underrated after the points drop. I wasn't able to get mine ready for LVO, but I have plans to try them out for this next season. The Ark platform is a fantastic unit for us:

- Very resilient against anti tank weapons, especially Castellans

- Fast with a 12" move

- Flys so it's practically impossible to wrap and ignores terrain

- Has a long body that can be very useful in cutting off ground based movement for your opponents

- Has very nice anti infantry shooting.

When you consider all of this, it would be one of the best transports in the game, except it sucks with what it can actually transport.

As IanVanCheese pointed out, for the points, it's well worth the 35 pts upgrade vs a squad of warriors. You lose objective secured, but frankly I've had very few games where that has mattered enough to make or break the game.

I wonder if Mechrons might be back on the cards tbh, three units of warriors ridding in Ghost Arks. You need a troop to take each Ark anyway, having something pop out behind the Arks to hold objectives could be viable. Sadly the spindly models won't block LOS to units behind them. Go nuts on Doomssday Arks and Tomb Blades for the rest of the list. Gonna have a play with Battlescribe, see what I can come up with.

It ain't the new thing. It didn't end up placing that well, the top 8 was the same old same old.

Doesnt mean it didnt do well. Was it the best necron list?

 iGuy91 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Ghost Arks are underrated after the points drop. I wasn't able to get mine ready for LVO, but I have plans to try them out for this next season. The Ark platform is a fantastic unit for us:

- Very resilient against anti tank weapons, especially Castellans

- Fast with a 12" move

- Flys so it's practically impossible to wrap and ignores terrain

- Has a long body that can be very useful in cutting off ground based movement for your opponents

- Has very nice anti infantry shooting.

When you consider all of this, it would be one of the best transports in the game, except it sucks with what it can actually transport.

As IanVanCheese pointed out, for the points, it's well worth the 35 pts upgrade vs a squad of warriors. You lose objective secured, but frankly I've had very few games where that has mattered enough to make or break the game.

I wonder if Mechrons might be back on the cards tbh, three units of warriors ridding in Ghost Arks. You need a troop to take each Ark anyway, having something pop out behind the Arks to hold objectives could be viable. Sadly the spindly models won't block LOS to units behind them. Go nuts on Doomssday Arks and Tomb Blades for the rest of the list. Gonna have a play with Battlescribe, see what I can come up with.

It ain't the new thing. It didn't end up placing that well, the top 8 was the same old same old.

His list didn't lean into it as fully as what I'm thinking, but also I don't think it's fair to say anything that didn't top 8 is trash. Volume of representation determines the top 8 as much as anything. Everyone is playing a variant of the Castellan list, so ofc it shows up there. Basically no one is playing Necrons, so even if one guys showed up with a killer list, luck would likely stop them getting to the top. I don't think anything will get us to the top of the top, but I think Mechrons might be in with a shout as one of our best lists.