On a sort of related notes in the picture in the White Dwarf Daily refers to BA Death Company Squads as "Cursed Squads." Is the new name change hint at a sooner then later codex release?

Heh, I just noticed that snippet on the ally matrix picture about Dante and the Silent King.

Drakmord wrote:
Heh, I just noticed that snippet on the ally matrix picture about Dante and the Silent King.

This ally chart makes me very happy WITH THE EXCEPTION of it 86ing traitor guard. Guard should have had it's own box so Tau and Chaos could get them as allies. Other than that, it is a good chart.

 azreal13 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Really, two pages and nobody did this?

Spoiler:

Tsk, shame on you!

Beat me too it!

That's what I get for playing video games instead of obsessively refreshing the page I suppose.

Lol, I've been painting and watching TV.

You Yanks just don't have the innate good timing of the British is all!

Tell you what, when it gets reported to Photobucket tomorrow and taken down, you can out up the next version.

I usually have very good timing abut I'm playing Assassins Creed Brotherhood and I guess that mixed me up a bit.

And do you mean this version that I was already uploading when I saw your post?

I need to buy some expendable AM for my Grey Knights to kill at the end of each round.

I'm going to say the reason the word Codex was replaced with Faction is because of the new ally matrix. Imperial is multiple Codices.

 Happygrunt wrote:
This ally chart makes me very happy WITH THE EXCEPTION of it 86ing traitor guard. Guard should have had it's own box so Tau and Chaos could get them as allies. Other than that, it is a good chart.

Instead of putting everything together, they could have condensed the Imperium in 3 factions:
- Adeptus Astartes (including LotD and all SM flavors, except GK)
- Astra Militarum (including MT)
- Magna Imperium (AS, Inq, IK, GK)

Regarding Tau (for example), they would be AoC, BB (or AoC) and DA, in that order.

 azreal13 wrote:
Really, two pages and nobody did this?



Tsk, shame on you!

Ugg that is a much uglier allie chart, and it hurts my color blind eyes.

Yaaaaaay for Tyranids!

Now we just need a leak of the Sanctic chart

Bunching all IoM armies into "Imperials" was the stupidest thing they could do.

With every edition they are continuing to axe the unique flavor of each army and turn it all into monotony. I'll be the first and say Warhammer 40,000 8th edition will have all armies classified into 3 groups: Imperials, Xenos and Ruinous Powers.



Now GKs are bestest buddies with IG even though there's enough fluff to justify a AoC disposition, given how they operate in secrecy and mindwipe, if not outright kill eyewitnesses.

And yeah, SoB AoC with an army full of witches (Eldar) is another example of GW not understanding its own fluff.

I used to think the old allies chart needed improvement but this new one actually makes me appreciate the old one even more. The only 2 good things about the new allies chart is: 1) No Taudar and 2), No Marinetau. But on the other hand battle brothers now share even more stuff like transports etc. How do you like the thought of a Land Raider spewing forth Guardsmen or Bloodletters? I for one think its ridiculous.

From /tg/

No proof with it though:

-Sanctic:
Primaris – Banishment -> anti-demon (-1 invuln)
Gate of Infinity
Hammerhand
Str D Vortex.
Sanctuary, iirc makes demon within 12″ all move through difficult terrain.
Cleansing Flame (some nova)
One more spell, you target an opponent, both roll dice and add to ld, if you’re higher than him, he auto losses a W, no saves.

-Precision shot is a USR now, so guards need 6s to do precision after that Order.

-Str D now only ignores all saves on a six. If not a six, the Str D weapon profile’s AP is followed. Str D is also assumed to be S10, so T6+ will be safe from ID.

-Deny the Witch for passive spells, like blessings are denied on a six. However offensive/directed/maledictions spells that target you, is a different matter, your DTW rolls can be improved by brother ofpsyker +1, psyker mastery level being higher than the offensive caster+1 and adamantium will +1. So you could technically go up to a 3+ dtw against offensive powers.

-Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.

-Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier -then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

-Ignore Cover – No change.

-ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

-Telepathy Powers Invisisbilty – makes others snapfire at you. Shrouding – gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris

- mc's cant be joined by ICs, flying MCs cannot charge the turn they change flight mode

-Jump infantry now can use the jumpack both in movement and assault phases. Also it has jink.

>Snapshots are at BS1

>Psyker's level, Adamantium Will... only affect dispelling attempt when you are targeted by the power, dispelling Blessing requires natural rolls of 6

>Chariots now gives Relentless to the passenger, their rules were totally reworked so that they are more of a single entity with their passenger.

>Perils table, only a third is a real issue and a decent leadership severely diminish its impact. worse, one effect turns your psyker into superman for a turn. Another drains psychic dice for both players.

>Most Perils are a leadership test, with different results for success and failure, most of the better successes are lose a wound or hull point, best one gives you 3++ and possibly Smash, Armorbane, and Fleshbane until the start of the next Psychic Phase

>Imperial forces are all Battle Brothers with each other, non-Imperial seems to have made out relatively worse

>Battle Brothers share basically everything, Powers, abilities, transports, Warlord traits, Reserve altering effects.

>Sisters are acknowledged as an Imperial faction in the book (Including for whiners)

>Immobilized Flyers now have a chance to Crash and Burn

>Old Aquila Lander crash scenery has rules

>Gate of Infinity is now a Sanctic power, another is a strength D Vortex, most of the Grey Knight powers might be included as well

>Now when you activate a Force Weapon, you active all of them in a unit

>Chariot rider may not be able to disembark

>Missile Lock apparently effects more than just Blasts now

>To Deny the Witch you must match your opponent's number of successes, number you have to roll is a 6, having a higher Mastery Level Psyker in the unit dispelling, Adamantium Will, or being within range of a Psychic Hood each give you +1 to your roll, again except for dispelling Blessings

>Defending player apparently gets to choose how hits are allocated between passenger and Chariot

 xttz wrote:
From /tg/

No proof with it though:

-Sanctic:
Primaris – Banishment -> anti-demon (-1 invuln)
Gate of Infinity
Hammerhand
Str D Vortex.
Sanctuary, iirc makes demon within 12″ all move through difficult terrain.
Cleansing Flame (some nova)
One more spell, you target an opponent, both roll dice and add to ld, if you’re higher than him, he auto losses a W, no saves.

-Precision shot is a USR now, so guards need 6s to do precision after that Order.

-Str D now only ignores all saves on a six. If not a six, the Str D weapon profile’s AP is followed. Str D is also assumed to be S10, so T6+ will be safe from ID.

-Deny the Witch for passive spells, like blessings are denied on a six. However offensive/directed/maledictions spells that target you, is a different matter, your DTW rolls can be improved by brother ofpsyker +1, psyker mastery level being higher than the offensive caster+1 and adamantium will +1. So you could technically go up to a 3+ dtw against offensive powers.

-Smash, only one attack. rest of it same.

-Vector Strike. 1A only unless against a flier -then D3, AP2 Ignore Cover.

-Ignore Cover – No change.

-ICs cannot be in the same unit as a MC anymore.

-Telepathy Powers Invisisbilty – makes others snapfire at you. Shrouding – gives you shrouded only.

Prescience is still a Primaris

- mc's cant be joined by ICs, flying MCs cannot charge the turn they change flight mode

-Jump infantry now can use the jumpack both in movement and assault phases. Also it has jink.

AND BA GET A BUFF!

-Jump infantry now can use the jumpack both in movement and assault phases. Also it has jink.

Jump with Jink? Man, Assault Marines got much more interesting now

WHAT?!?

Jump Infantry can use the pack in both phases (fair enough), but JINK

I'll be in my bunk.

July/August can't get here sooner.

 Vector Strike wrote:

coredump wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I suspect summoned daemons will be held akin to any allies relationships they have on the chart, so bringing in a unit can cause them to roll on the "one eye open" rule as well as suffer any scoring penalties for not being buddies (if any such penalties still exist)

Further, the bigger picture here is that all armies are BB with their own faction - we have seen the army list page that says you may take as many detachments in a battle forged army as you like.

Think for a second -- 2x hive tyrant, 2x gaunt units, then ally detachments of 1 tyrant and 1 gaunt unit until your points are full. Bam! Battle forged.

Unbound will be accepted because in the end it will be no worse than legal battle forged forces.

Not so fast there sparky....

The Allied Detachment FOC specifically states it must be from a different faction. Further, while you can take multiple detachments, we don't know if you can take multiple allied detachments, or multiple combined armes detachments....

Is there any rule regarding supplements? Should I treat Farsight Enclaves as Tau faction, adding a normal Detachment instead of the Allies' one?

Yes if you looked at the new allies page that was linked it says they count as the faction they are a supplement of. So Tau are BB with Farsight

Ninja'ed

As much as I like the idea of jump infantry getting jink... the other part about all jump infantry basically getting raven guard chapter traits seems a bit wishlisty to me.

Rofl Dreadknights with teleporters get a jink? Or Riptides for that matter ick

Jump infantry get Jink and get to use jumppacks in both phases?

It would seem there would be *zero* point to using tac's and equivalents after that, especially given how Assault Marines/Raptors are like 2ppm more.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Rofl Dreadknights with teleporters get a jink? Or Riptides for that matter ick

Riptides are Jet Pack. Now, Wraithknights are Jump. Lucky us Jump Monstrous Creatures don't get it... do they?

 Vector Strike wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Rofl Dreadknights with teleporters get a jink? Or Riptides for that matter ick

Riptides are Jet Pack. Now, Wraithknights are Jump. Lucky us Jump Monstrous Creatures don't get it... do they?

Well it says they act as Jump Infantry for movement purposes....maybe?

Since everything is scoring I'm curious how level of allies matter between allies of convenience and desperate allies beyond just the "one eye open" rule if it still exists.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jump infantry get Jink and get to use jumppacks in both phases?

It would seem there would be *zero* point to using tac's and equivalents after that, especially given how Assault Marines/Raptors are like 2ppm more.

I'd use one Tac squad in a BA list to hold a home objective, but other than that, Tac squads are pointless in BA.

In Chaos, Plague Marines to hold objectives, Raptors with Mark of Slaanesh for Fast Attack, all of which using the Crimson Slaughter book

I see orks get on better with chaos, rather than eldar or imperium.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jump infantry get Jink and get to use jumppacks in both phases?

It would seem there would be *zero* point to using tac's and equivalents after that, especially given how Assault Marines/Raptors are like 2ppm more.

Doom! DOOM! The end is nigh!

Tacticals have objective secured scoring, can take specials/heavies, and don't get all of their effectiveness from being able to kill in CC where most often being hit back is guaranteed and meeting far killier CC threats is likely.

Plus, I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that jink got changed to be voluntary and that there's a few nerfs to the unit as a result.

Does Come the Apocalypse still mean that you can't drop those armies on the table together?

If so, how long until we see a question in YMDC about what happens when a marine summons a blood thirster? In other words, is the blood thirster considered to be part of the Armies of the Imperium for all rule purposes (I just had to put that in there) OR is it a part of the Daemon faction and therefore can't be part of the army?

If the latter, it seems like the blood thirster would have to be immediately removed from play otherwise the game implodes....

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Rofl Dreadknights with teleporters get a jink? Or Riptides for that matter ick

Riptides are Jet Pack. Now, Wraithknights are Jump. Lucky us Jump Monstrous Creatures don't get it... do they?

Well it says they act as Jump Infantry for movement purposes....maybe?

Hm... another buff to the Eldar team? (chomp!)

4+ cover in exchange for snap fire in a T8 W6 model... oh my.

Grey knights are gonna have a few nice elements for certain imperial armies. Will need to see the rules changes and FAQs, but I could see some meaness coming out of that. Also Assassins FINALLY. I can make some fun lists with that change.

clively wrote:
Does Come the Apocalypse still mean that you can't drop those armies on the table together?

If so, how long until we see a question in YMDC about what happens when a marine summons a blood thirster? In other words, is the blood thirster considered to be part of the Armies of the Imperium for all rule purposes (I just had to put that in there) OR is it a part of the Daemon faction and therefore can't be part of the army?

If the latter, it seems like the blood thirster would have to be immediately removed from play otherwise the game implodes....

No. CtA is treated as DA in all forms, except when you deploy (12" from each other)

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jump infantry get Jink and get to use jumppacks in both phases?

It would seem there would be *zero* point to using tac's and equivalents after that, especially given how Assault Marines/Raptors are like 2ppm more.

Doom! DOOM! The end is nigh!

Tacticals have objective secured scoring, can take specials/heavies, and don't get all of their effectiveness from being able to kill in CC where most often being hit back is guaranteed and meeting far killier CC threats is likely.

Plus, I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that jink got changed to be voluntary and that there's a few nerfs to the unit as a result.

The rumour was that using Jink meant you had to use snap shots the following turn. That isn't really a nerf for Assault squads who probably aren't going to be in range with their guns when jinking anyway. What would be better:

1) Getting a 4+ cover save, mitigating losses from enemy shooting and not firing your bolt pistols (or having them less effective) the next turn and therefore not killing enemy models which means you have less of a charge distance to cover

or

2) Not having a 4+ cover save and so losing some more models, firing your bolt pistols at full effectiveness and possibly killing some enemy models and therefore making your required charge distance greater before overwatch even begins

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jump infantry get Jink and get to use jumppacks in both phases?

It would seem there would be *zero* point to using tac's and equivalents after that, especially given how Assault Marines/Raptors are like 2ppm more.

Doom! DOOM! The end is nigh!

Tacticals have objective secured scoring, can take specials/heavies, and don't get all of their effectiveness from being able to kill in CC where most often being hit back is guaranteed and meeting far killier CC threats is likely.

Plus, I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that jink got changed to be voluntary and that there's a few nerfs to the unit as a result.

The rumour was that using Jink meant you had to use snap shots the following turn. That isn't really a nerf for Assault squads who probably aren't going to be in range with their guns when jinking anyway. What would be better, getting a 4+ cover save and not firing your bolt pistols (or having them less effective) the next turn or not having a 4+ cover save, firing your bolt pistols at full effectiveness, posibbly killing some enemy models and therefore making your required charge distance greater before overwatch even begins?

You beat me to it.

 Leth wrote:
Grey knights are gonna have a few nice elements for certain imperial armies. Will need to see the rules changes and FAQs, but I could see some meaness coming out of that. Also Assassins FINALLY. I can make some fun lists with that change.

Assassins finally? Is something removing their "unique" limitation letting you take more than 1 of a type in a army? Or do you have something else in mind? Curious as I play henchmen with assassins.

Templars and Sisters can finally ally without hating each other. Let the purgation begin!

speaking of which, I am sure GW will release a Codex: Assassinorum before they release the next GK codex


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Templars and Sisters can finally ally without hating each other. Let the purgation begin!

they already could in the last edition after september 13 when black templars as a unique faction ceased to exist.

 portugus wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Grey knights are gonna have a few nice elements for certain imperial armies. Will need to see the rules changes and FAQs, but I could see some meaness coming out of that. Also Assassins FINALLY. I can make some fun lists with that change.

Assassins finally? Is something removing their "unique" limitation letting you take more than 1 of a type in a army? Or do you have something else in mind? Curious as I play henchmen with assassins.

Well before they took an allied slot, but didnt synergize well with the other imperial armies so the cost to take an assassin was pretty high.

Now I can do something like take a librarian, get a assassin, and then something like a terminator squad or something integrate that into my army. Also if scoring turns into objective secured(100% guess on my part) (like sternguard) then it would be interesting to get a dreadknight with objective secured. Or an interceptor squad with objective secured. Really help you play to the mission cards with super mobile elements.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Jump infantry get Jink and get to use jumppacks in both phases?

It would seem there would be *zero* point to using tac's and equivalents after that, especially given how Assault Marines/Raptors are like 2ppm more.

Doom! DOOM! The end is nigh!

Tacticals have objective secured scoring, can take specials/heavies, and don't get all of their effectiveness from being able to kill in CC where most often being hit back is guaranteed and meeting far killier CC threats is likely.

Plus, I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that jink got changed to be voluntary and that there's a few nerfs to the unit as a result.

The rumour was that using Jink meant you had to use snap shots the following turn. That isn't really a nerf for Assault squads who probably aren't going to be in range with their guns when jinking anyway. What would be better:

1) Getting a 4+ cover save, mitigating losses from enemy shooting and not firing your bolt pistols (or having them less effective) the next turn and therefore not killing enemy models which means you have less of a charge distance to cover

or

2) Not having a 4+ cover save and so losing some more models, firing your bolt pistols at full effectiveness and possibly killing some enemy models and therefore making your required charge distance greater before overwatch even begins

Assault marines might actually make it back into lists! Its a shame I don't have any good melee jinkers like that... Come to think of it Shining Spears may actually be halfway decent, but they always had a jink save with the jetbikes they are on and warp spiders will probably still outshine them.

So, the entire Imperium gets thrown together to mix and match at will, with plenty of allies.

The rest of the armies get nerfs, with the minor exception for nids.

What a pile of gak. So my Blood Axes are ruined. I cannot even begin to fathom how they managed to take the previous allies chart and MAKE IT WORSE?!?

Very angry.

 Sir Arun wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Templars and Sisters can finally ally without hating each other. Let the purgation begin!

they already could in the last edition after september 13 when black templars as a unique faction ceased to exist.

Except for the part where they couldn't, but let's not go down that rabbit hole again.

So now that there is exactly zero ambugity with SoB and Black Templar being best of buds and allying together I have a request. Would the people that argued that them not being good allies in 6th edition makes sense due to fluff reasons please try and agrue their point again using the exact same logic.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Templars and Sisters can finally ally without hating each other. Let the purgation begin!

they already could in the last edition after september 13 when black templars as a unique faction ceased to exist.

Except for the part where they couldn't, but let's not go down that rabbit hole again.

One of the more heated debates, at least it's over.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
So, the entire Imperium gets thrown together to mix and match at will, with plenty of allies.

The rest of the armies get nerfs, with the minor exception for nids.

What a pile of gak. So my Blood Axes are ruined. I cannot even begin to fathom how they managed to take the previous allies chart and MAKE IT WORSE?!?

Very angry.

I'm saying. Almost every rumor I've heard so far goes in the 'I hope that isn't true' category. Sincerely hoping those pictures were faked...

So, I was just flipping through the Daemons Codex earlier and I had a thought about 7th edition and the new Psychic phase...

...did the Blue Scribes just get a buff? Scrolls of Sorcery means they automatically manifest a power from any discipline - you just roll a D6 to see what power you get. It means that you can have them rolling for Daemonancy powers every turn without needing to set aside Warp Charges for the high-end abilities. Of course, you can't get the Primaris on them and Dark Flame and Eternal Gaze aren't as good as new herlads/fast attack units... but the chance to automatically bring in new units each turn isn't bad, nor is buffing every unit within 12" with Cursed Earth. They can be Denied, so your opponent will have to choose to use warp charges to deny the Blue Scribes' automatically-manifesting ability or hold them back for the rest of your casters. For 81 points, having a 4/6 chance a turn to buff a chunk of the army or bring in another unit is a steal. Plus, since it automatically manifests, you can use the Scribes' first without risking the power failing and being inaccessible to the rest of the army that turn...

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
So, the entire Imperium gets thrown together to mix and match at will, with plenty of allies.

The rest of the armies get nerfs, with the minor exception for nids.

What a pile of gak. So my Blood Axes are ruined. I cannot even begin to fathom how they managed to take the previous allies chart and MAKE IT WORSE?!?

Very angry.

Calm down brother...

With the new Ork codex around the corner... We can take 'em all down!!!

Nothing will be able to stop the new green tide!!!!

There's a lot of stuff in the Daemon codex that if not rewritten is basically useless.

For example, +3 LD for Tzeentch, etc..

Collars of Khorne? How the feth does that work now.

Actually, I really like this new allies matrix. This is the first thing I've seen that they've fixed something from 6th.

I'm genuinely surprised.

You Orkies betta jump on this one:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/595798.page

I suspect that if Assault Marines actually are getting to Jink that they will be barred from declaring charges in the next turn.

While ASM getting jinx MIGHT be true, no way in hell do I believe all ASM being able to use their jump packs twice. WTF are Raven Guard gonna do then?

Maybe just jink vs. overwatch?

Santic powers with anyone but grey knights perils on any doubles. Even if successful or not. Ouch! Malefic is any doubles = perils for anyone but models with the daemon special rule.

Going to cost you on those crazy tables gents!

Woops i cant read Edit:

I wonder if Jump pack infantry get Jink as well?

Shrikes, Sky Slashers, Gargoyles got allot more survivable if that is the case...

It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

Methinks the Dakka Dakka community needs to sit the feth down and think about that.

 Desubot wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:


Except on every encounter with Necrons the Tau have been slaughtered.

There is only a single fluff-recorded encounter between the Tau and the Necrons, as far as I'm aware.

And how did it end?

Pretty much the same as all Tau interactions with other races go.

I guess Tau should just be CtA with every race.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

Methinks the Dakka Dakka community needs to sit the feth down and think about that.

It doesn't, and on a side note, the entire concept of allies is stupid and flawed.


Allies should have been an expansion.

I agree.

That said, the new allies chart is an improvement over the last one.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I agree.

That said, the new allies chart is an improvement over the last one.

The only thing I don't like about it is that Eldar and DE are still BB, which means they still get their ridiculous Baron Cheese deathstars.

found the entire page with the allies matrix. /tg/ delivers

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

Methinks the Dakka Dakka community needs to sit the feth down and think about that.

I agree with the sentiment. but putting all in one basket was too much, I think.

 undertow wrote:

Loopstah wrote:

 undertow wrote:

General Duf wrote:
I am suddenly very sad inside. I'd been putting money away to buy some Traitor guardsmen.

Same. I'm now 'Come the Apocalypse' with guard for my Daemons. Oh well, I'll figure something else out. Maybe I'll go outside more often.

Or you could use your Guard psykers to summon your daemons?

I could. But the thing that attracted me to Daemons in the first place was the Monstrous Creatures. I'm not really interested in playing IG and summoning a bunch of small daemons.

I wanted to splash in a few vehicles and some cultists as guardsmen. I'll probably try out a daemon summoning factory now. I need to get a closer look at the rules for each ally type to see if I still want to add some IG. I'm just glad I held off on purchasing any models until after 7th dropped.

Use the Renegades and Heretics list from Forge World? They ally with daemons as BB

So, GKs will get lots of access to D strength Vortex powers. VORTEX. Lol What? That can't be right.

What I see from the new allies chart:
TauDar is gone.
Nids can ally with themselves (or you can field 12 wave serpents)
Nemesis warding staves got awesome (throw a priest in that paladin-star )
Orks can be friends with almost everyone!

Really the only change will be if you want to throw sisters or GK into an imperial army, it's a little easier now, and I feel like the most abusive combos probably already exist with IG and SM. The negative of course is not being able to run traitor guard, but maybe GW will re-release a lost and damned codex for some easy money.

 Vector Strike wrote:
found the entire page with the allies matrix. /tg/ delivers

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

Methinks the Dakka Dakka community needs to sit the feth down and think about that.

I agree with the sentiment. but putting all in one basket was too much, I think.

So anyone can ally with anyone! Interesting.

Wait Necrons and Tau are allies of Convenience??

Odd choice, but OK.....

 warriorpriest wrote:
Wait Necrons and Tau are allies of Convenience??

Odd choice, but OK.....

They're allies of convenience now as well.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 warriorpriest wrote:
Wait Necrons and Tau are allies of Convenience??

Odd choice, but OK.....

They're allies of convenience now as well.

Shows you how much 6th edition I play. Still odd choice either way.

 warriorpriest wrote:
Wait Necrons and Tau are allies of Convenience??

Odd choice, but OK.....

Same as 6th. Trons.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

The 'Dakka Dakka community' thinks no such thing. The opinions of individual posters here are a reflection of the opinions of those posters, not of the entirety of the community.



The complaints about all Imperials being able to ally are more to do with the imbalance created through this system rather than how it applies to the fluff. Sure, it's fluffy to allow Imperial Armies to all be Battle Brothers. But in a system where non-Imperial armies pretty much aren't Battle Brothers with anyone except themselves, that creates a fairly massive power divide.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

Methinks the Dakka Dakka community needs to sit the feth down and think about that.

I sat the feth down and thought about it.

I considered all the various imperium factions, the combinations that will now be possible from mixing and matching them as you want, I thought about all the folks that are going to enjoy that. Then I thought about my own army, my orks with IG allies, representing a Blood Axe army. I thought about the forge world tanks I'd bought for it, I considered the time and effort I'd put into it.

Then I considered how much effort it would have taken to realize that there are mercenary factions listed in the Necron, Dark Eldar and Ork books, coupled with the Gue'vesa and the renegade Imperial Guard regiments.

I wondered, in a book that's talked about the clear linear distinctions between the 'no holds barred' unbound vs the 'structured' battleforged armies, just how totally unbalanced an imperium army just became vs a xenos army, in it's choices and ability to min/max with other imperial faction, allies, knights and inquisition.

Because you're right, the previous allies chart did have some ass-stupid things in it. Taking notions of balance and ejecting them out the bloody window doesn't fix that.

Giving imperium armies a hottub love-in is great, but doing it whilst taking away from the other armies is yet again, further unbalance.

Also, who the feck says 'methinks' except the comic shop guy from the Simpsons?

 insaniak wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

The 'Dakka Dakka community' thinks no such thing. The opinions of individual posters here are a reflection of the opinions of those posters, not of the entirety of the community.



The complaints about all Imperials being able to ally are more to do with the imbalance created through this system rather than how it applies to the fluff. Sure, it's fluffy to allow Imperial Armies to all be Battle Brothers. But in a system where non-Imperial armies pretty much aren't Battle Brothers with anyone except themselves, that creates a fairly massive power divide.

You may be right, but I don't see it, honestly.

As far as power levels are concerned, what xenos faction is getting shafted here? Daemons still have their screamerstar and their FMC/Heldrake Circus, Deldar still exists, Necrons still have their tournament winning Flying Bakery, etc.

I can't really think of any xenos army that *depended* on allies to be a strong army. Taudar is a thing of the past, but both Eldar and Tau are god-tier armies on their own. Orks, maybe? Even with allies, I never saw ork armies getting anywhere in a competitive setting.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:


I sat the feth down and thought about it.

I considered all the various imperium factions, the combinations that will now be possible from mixing and matching them as you want, I thought about all the folks that are going to enjoy that. Then I thought about my own army, my orks with IG allies, representing a Blood Axe army. I thought about the forge world tanks I'd bought for it, I considered the time and effort I'd put into it.

Then I considered how much effort it would have taken to realize that there are mercenary factions listed in the Necron, Dark Eldar and Ork books, coupled with the Gue'vesa and the renegade Imperial Guard regiments.

I wondered, in a book that's talked about the clear linear distinctions between the 'no holds barred' unbound vs the 'structured' battleforged armies, just how totally unbalanced an imperium army just became vs a xenos army, in it's choices and ability to min/max with other imperial faction, allies, knights and inquisition.

Because you're right, the previous allies chart did have some ass-stupid things in it. Taking notions of balance and ejecting them out the bloody window doesn't fix that.

Giving imperium armies a hottub love-in is great, but doing it whilst taking away from the other armies is yet again, further unbalance.

Frankly, I think allies should either just not exist or they should feth it and just have zero ally tiers whatsoever, for pretty much this very reason. You want a blood-axe IG army? I want Black Templars to be BB with Daemons, so that I can play my army of Templars who's love of close-combat has corrupted them into joining Khorne and now they fight alongside Bloodletters. I want Tau to be able to ally with Tyranids so I can forge a narrative and have an army of Tau who broke away from the Empire and have a bunch of Tyranid organisms they experiment on and field-test on the field of battle.

Once you start delving into obscure, uncommon alliances like Black TemplarsXKhorne, or Blood Axes X Imperial Guard, why even bother having ally restrictions? 40K is a massive mythos with tons of material, you can probably find or make plausible fluff to justify any allied combination.

Also, who the feck says 'methinks' except the comic shop guy from the Simpsons?

I am the comicbook guy from the Simpsons.

I understand you are pissed because you can not now field your blood axes (you can of course against an opponent who is willing to let you do that, I would for example) but I don't see how just because an imperial can battle brother that means there power level is now unbalanced v a xenos army.

Eldar are still amazing, Tau are still amazing, Necrons are still amazing and now all xenos armies can ally with themselves (Tyranids).

Alright, I think this is something both groups (lovers and haters) have missed: scoring.

In 6th, the "one eye open" rule was NOT what stopped players from taking desperate allies - it was the fact that they couldn't score or contest objectives.

In 7th, EVERY unit is scoring. If that holds true, then taking desperate allies still works for effective games. Even CtA allies count as desperate, just with a deployment restriction.

We need more info but those traitor guard armies and blood axes will still be able to win games.

And it seems it all circles back around to not everyone liking what GW does rules wise and they dont care about the money you have previously spent, only the money you haven't.

TOF reporting now that FMC's cant charge the turn that they change there flight modes.

 BlaxicanX wrote:


Frankly, I think allies should either just not exist or they should feth it and just have zero ally tiers whatsoever, for pretty much this very reason.

I like the idea of an ally chart, it is an interesting opportunity to collect just a few minis from a range you like and also to keep your army 'vital' if the codex is getting on in years. It's just the implementation is so totally dire. They should just scrap the types of ally and either have Allies or CtA.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Also, who the feck says 'methinks' except the comic shop guy from the Simpsons?

I am the comicbook guy from the Simpsons.

Worst. Comeback. Ever.

bodazoka wrote:
TOF reporting now that FMC's cant charge the turn that they change there flight modes.

Would be an interesting balance to the new grounding test mechanic.

bodazoka wrote:
TOF reporting now that FMC's cant charge the turn that they change there flight modes.

He is just repeating them from somewhere else posting them.

And at least one (maelstrom) is provably false from the released scans of the rulebook.

I'm more interested in what if any changes have been made to vehicle facings for Flyers and any rules changes to beasts or anything that affects Necrons.

I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

Also hearing rumours they killed Spyderstar as ICs cannot join MC units.

On the other hand ... Spyders got a bit of a buff with their denial of the witch/ force thing but not really.

So any other new snipets posted yet?

Trying to watch the season finale of ink master.

Hollismason wrote:
I'm more interested in what if any changes have been made to vehicle facings for Flyers and any rules changes to beasts or anything that affects Necrons.

I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

Also hearing rumours they killed Spyderstar as ICs cannot join MC units.

On the other hand ... Spyders got a bit of a buff with their denial of the witch/ force thing but not really.

I think it's just single MC units? so you can join an IC to a spyder unit as long as there are 2 or more models maybe?

I hope so. Kind of sucks that we'll never at least if the rumours are correct have more than 1d6 Warp Charge and only nullify on 6s , which is actually almost impossible if someone has a level 3 Warp Charge.

This is if, you know the rumour of you having to roll a number of 6s equal to their successes.

 l0k1 wrote:
So, GKs will get lots of access to D strength Vortex powers. VORTEX. Lol What? That can't be right.

In 6th ed the vortex of doom is a WC 2, 12" Str 10 Ap1 small blast that if you fail your psychic check is centered on the psyker with no scatter. I don't think it'll be "D" strength in 7th. The grey knight's librarian has a WC1 version, but I doubt it'll stay the same WC level. I would bet WC 4, and even at WC 3 that is still pretty hard to make and if you fail you are killing yourself and your unit.

Also if by "lots of access" you mean hoping to roll a six on the psychic chart, nope.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

I sat the feth down and thought about it.

I considered all the various imperium factions, the combinations that will now be possible from mixing and matching them as you want, I thought about all the folks that are going to enjoy that. Then I thought about my own army, my orks with IG allies, representing a Blood Axe army. I thought about the forge world tanks I'd bought for it, I considered the time and effort I'd put into it.

Then I considered how much effort it would have taken to realize that there are mercenary factions listed in the Necron, Dark Eldar and Ork books, coupled with the Gue'vesa and the renegade Imperial Guard regiments.

I wondered, in a book that's talked about the clear linear distinctions between the 'no holds barred' unbound vs the 'structured' battleforged armies, just how totally unbalanced an imperium army just became vs a xenos army, in it's choices and ability to min/max with other imperial faction, allies, knights and inquisition.

Because you're right, the previous allies chart did have some ass-stupid things in it. Taking notions of balance and ejecting them out the bloody window doesn't fix that.

Giving imperium armies a hottub love-in is great, but doing it whilst taking away from the other armies is yet again, further unbalance.

Also, who the feck says 'methinks' except the comic shop guy from the Simpsons?

Blood Axe supplement where they can ally with the Imperium is in the rumour mill, at least. I dunno the reliability of it, though.

Also you can still field them, nothing is stopping that. All that you have to do is not have them within 12. for come the apocalypse. How is that different from now?

regarding the jink save for assault marines, it did say jump infantry right? In which case wraithknights etc don;t benefit because they are not infantry they are jump monstrous creatures. I can see how hard it would be to hit an assault marine in the air, but not a giant wraithknight!
Love the rule for sure, I've always love the idea of assault marines.

Honestly if the jink rule means you have to snap shot I am fine with a wraith knight getting it. Especially when they can just stick a toe in cover for a similar save

I do think this allies chart is better than the old one (even though I also wish that Orks had a higher alliance level with Imperial Guard for the Blood Axes among us).

However, I am disappointed that they decided to keep the same symmetrical alliance. I still think that an asymmetrical alliance chart, while a teeny-weeny bit more complicated, would have captured a lot of cool ideas better.

For example, you could have Primary Detachment IG being Battle Brothers with Space Marines (if they hadn't mashed them all together as Imperial). This would reflect the hero worship and reverence that the 'normal humans' have for the Space Marines, allowing them to embark on their vehicles and taking orders from them. Then you could have the Space Marines only having an alliance of convenience with the Imperial Guard, reflecting the fact that the marines aren't going to take orders from IG commanders, nor allow IG troops to tromp around in a Land Raider.

I think it would have had a lot more 'narrative' backing, with very, very little added complexity, but it's at least a bit better than last time.

I think lumping all the armies of the Imperium into one group is a mistake. Marines are Guardsmen and vice versa. There's no room for 'traitor Guard' in there, as it assumes that all people who aren't Marines/Sisters are always loyal all the time. Now Wolves are best buds with the Inquisition, and the Sisters are crushing on the Sister-slaying blood-ritual-enacting Grey Knights. This is stupid.

Trust GW to fix one problem by creating another.

^this. Helsreach is a good novelization of asymetrical allies. Grimauldus does what Grimauldus wants to do.

Where are you guys missing that they can still take those allies in a battle forged army, they just cant deploy within 12 of each other.

Hollismason wrote:


I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

.

Nope. Ally detachment FOC requires being a different faction from the primary.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Where are you guys missing that they can still take those allies in a battle forged army, they just cant deploy within 12 of each other.

And don't get within 6" during the game or risk going catotonic.

coredump wrote:

Hollismason wrote:


I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

.

Nope. Ally detachment FOC requires being a different faction from the primary.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Where are you guys missing that they can still take those allies in a battle forged army, they just cant deploy within 12 of each other.

And don't get within 6" during the game or risk going catotonic.

Where are you getting this at because multiple people have pointed out Tyranids allying with themselves.

 insaniak wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

The 'Dakka Dakka community' thinks no such thing. The opinions of individual posters here are a reflection of the opinions of those posters, not of the entirety of the community.



The complaints about all Imperials being able to ally are more to do with the imbalance created through this system rather than how it applies to the fluff. Sure, it's fluffy to allow Imperial Armies to all be Battle Brothers. But in a system where non-Imperial armies pretty much aren't Battle Brothers with anyone except themselves, that creates a fairly massive power divide.

I actually very much disagree that it is fluffy. Space Marines other than maybe ultras and fists view unmodified humans with cool neglect and don't really regard them as useful for much. IG treat Marines with varying degress of awe, fear, and jealousy. To say that the Space Wolves or Dark Angels and Inquisition have a close working relationship pretty much blatantly ignores the fluff. The simple catch all of "all imperials are bestest buddies" isn't fluffy at all. I'd say as a general rule (with some obvious exceptions) that the Inquisition, IG, and SOB might be BB to each other and in general Space Marines are to each other as well. Crossing between the two categories (Astartes and normal humans) is more accurately described as Allies of Convience IMO.

 warboss wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

The 'Dakka Dakka community' thinks no such thing. The opinions of individual posters here are a reflection of the opinions of those posters, not of the entirety of the community.



The complaints about all Imperials being able to ally are more to do with the imbalance created through this system rather than how it applies to the fluff. Sure, it's fluffy to allow Imperial Armies to all be Battle Brothers. But in a system where non-Imperial armies pretty much aren't Battle Brothers with anyone except themselves, that creates a fairly massive power divide.

I actually very much disagree that it is fluffy. Space Marines other than maybe ultras and fists view unmodified humans with cool neglect and don't really regard them as useful for much. IG treat Marines with varying degress of awe, fear, and jealousy. To say that the Space Wolves or Dark Angels and Inquisition have a close working relationship pretty much blatantly ignores the fluff. The simple catch all of "all imperials are bestest buddies" isn't fluffy at all. I'd say as a general rule (with some obvious exceptions) that the Inquisition, IG, and SOB might be BB to each other and in general Space Marines are to each other as well. Crossing between the two categories (Astartes and normal humans) is more accurately described as Allies of Convience IMO.

I think we're dealing with relativity here. Relative to all xenos and heretic factions, Imperial factions are best of friends. Before we had xenocidal space marines on better terms with xenos than Sisters of Battle. This new chart is much better.

coredump wrote:

Hollismason wrote:


I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

.

Nope. Ally detachment FOC requires being a different faction from the primary.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Where are you guys missing that they can still take those allies in a battle forged army, they just cant deploy within 12 of each other.

And don't get within 6" during the game or risk going catotonic.

That was not the complaint. It was that they could not take the models that they owned. There are still ways to play it and possibly make it work

 MWHistorian wrote:

I think we're dealing with relativity here. Relative to all xenos and heretic factions, Imperial factions are best of friends. Before we had xenocidal space marines on better terms with xenos than Sisters of Battle. This new chart is much better.

I agree that it is better but that isn't hard to do since it is like walking into a room with rotten food and spending time in a room filled with roadkill. It's obviously better but not pleasant. I still think most every Imperial/Xenos should be at best desperate allies when they do actually occasionally work together against a common enemy (like Tau and SM teaming up versus Nids... or IG and Eldar facing chaos) or come the apoc when they don't infamously team up.

coredump wrote:

Hollismason wrote:


I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

.

Nope. Ally detachment FOC requires being a different faction from the primary.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Where are you guys missing that they can still take those allies in a battle forged army, they just cant deploy within 12 of each other.

And don't get within 6" during the game or risk going catotonic.

from what was said earlier though, there was no limit on primary/secondary detachments, sure it comes with the HQ + Troop tax, BUT you can then field as many detachments as you have points to spend, so you COULD take 3 hq 6 troops and 9 HS if you so desired... there is no need to ally with yourself.

and remember the wording is now FACTION, not Codex. so IOM can take whatever it pleases from within the faction as allies or detachments. making their life much easier...

 warboss wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's very interesting to me that the Dakka Dakka community thinks having things like Bro-fisting Ultramarine/Tau and Black Templars preferring to fight alongside Eldar over Sisters of Battle is more sensible than all Imperial armies preferring to work with one another than with aliens and abominations.

The 'Dakka Dakka community' thinks no such thing. The opinions of individual posters here are a reflection of the opinions of those posters, not of the entirety of the community.



The complaints about all Imperials being able to ally are more to do with the imbalance created through this system rather than how it applies to the fluff. Sure, it's fluffy to allow Imperial Armies to all be Battle Brothers. But in a system where non-Imperial armies pretty much aren't Battle Brothers with anyone except themselves, that creates a fairly massive power divide.

I actually very much disagree that it is fluffy. Space Marines other than maybe ultras and fists view unmodified humans with cool neglect and don't really regard them as useful for much. IG treat Marines with varying degress of awe, fear, and jealousy. To say that the Space Wolves or Dark Angels and Inquisition have a close working relationship pretty much blatantly ignores the fluff. The simple catch all of "all imperials are bestest buddies" isn't fluffy at all. I'd say as a general rule (with some obvious exceptions) that the Inquisition, IG, and SOB might be BB to each other and in general Space Marines are to each other as well. Crossing between the two categories (Astartes and normal humans) is more accurately described as Allies of Convience IMO.

Im going to assume if a space marine regardless of faction showed up and said to a bunch of guardsman "Form up, im leading you into battle" ......im sure they will agree with him regardless of what their personal feelings are. If an Imperial Guard commander saw some Sisters hanging out and went up to them and said "stop being awesome over here and start being awesome while killing these xenos for me" they are probably going to follow him since he's a higher rank. Same goes for if an Inquisitor walked up to a bunch of Dark Angels, waved his Rosette in the faces and said "stop cutting yourself, we've got some heretics to face murder" they might grumble but im sure they are going to form up and follow him since he has the authority to do so. When it comes down to it i think all the Imperium armies respect the Chain-O-Command to a great degree and will follow any human of some rank or prestige even if grudgingly into battle, since that is what they are trained to do.

Now that dosent mean that this is a permanent alliance, it just means that for some reason or another certain imperial factions are in the same warzone and their combat elements are being tapped for the success of the campaign. If a Colonel needs anti-psyker support hes going to call command and ask for some sisters or request an inquisitor. As far as chapters working together regardless of whether or not they hate each other they will still fight like Pros on the battlefield until after the fighting has stopped. Just because the Sallies HATE the Marines Malevolent dosen't mean they aren't going to fight with them to stop the invasion of Armageddon.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
and remember the wording is now FACTION, not Codex. so IOM can take whatever it pleases from within the faction as allies or detachments. making their life much easier...

I don't think that the different parts of the Imperium are the same faction just because they use the same line on the allies matrix.

I also seem to remember something about allied detachments having to come from a different faction to your primary detachment.

Just saw the allies matrix, am liking it a lot. Seems closer to the fluff than the last one, and I like that all Imperials are battle brothers with each other now. Opens up some very cool allying options for my Sisters.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
and remember the wording is now FACTION, not Codex. so IOM can take whatever it pleases from within the faction as allies or detachments. making their life much easier...

I don't think that the different parts of the Imperium are the same faction just because they use the same line on the allies matrix.

I also seem to remember something about allied detachments having to come from a different faction to your primary detachment.

They aren't, it says as much on the leaked page. "Faction" == "Codex title" for now. "Armies of the Imperium" (the entry on the allies matrix) is made up of the imperial factions, it isn't a faction in and of itself.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
and remember the wording is now FACTION, not Codex. so IOM can take whatever it pleases from within the faction as allies or detachments. making their life much easier...

I don't think that the different parts of the Imperium are the same faction just because they use the same line on the allies matrix.

I also seem to remember something about allied detachments having to come from a different faction to your primary detachment.

but your secondary detachment does not have to be allies it can be from the same faction, and allies need to be faction/alliable. if i remember reading something right, and i dont remember there being a limit on the number of allies, or add to taht you can take whatever formations you like, and guess who has the most of them... yep IOM. so that further makes their life easier.

edit: so referenceing the above then, we have factions ( codecies) but they in their allies chart make IOM all in one. so for me from taht i see the option for Sm to take say GK allies, with a IG formation and has the limit on number of detachments there yet? because last i saw we could take say 1 SM primary, multiple allied and as many formations as you please.

 Troike wrote:
Just saw the allies matrix, am liking it a lot. Seems closer to the fluff than the last one, and I like that all Imperials are battle brothers with each other now. Opens up some very cool allying options for my Sisters.

All I see it Deathstars taking a cheap wound soak in St. Celestine and using her for hit &r run while stacking priests with the Litanies of Faith.

So Padadins, Centurionstars, TH/SS termies, etc. with Hit&Run on a durable gal with reroll everything in close combat automatically, forgoing the new psychic power phase. Pile that into a LRC, since the rumor stats battle bros can ride dirty in their pals vehicles... boom.

So basically, Squad of Paladins w/ Psycannons + Warding Staves in LRC, w/ 2 Priests, St Celestine, and Draigo. Burst out and move from combat to combat with rerollable 2+ armor / 2++ invulnerable. Break out, shoot your target down, club them with staves, rinse, repeat. Break apart in the back field with Draigo to cause double havoc. Include an Inquisitor or Tech Marine for grenade fun. Make sure a banner is in there so you auto-pass your Force Weapon checks. Ta-da, forgone the entire psychic phase and you can reap all the benefits.

It's 1K of points, sure, but support it with Exorcists, Dominions, and 20 girl sister squads camping objectives... Have some fun...

Deathstar 40k is dead, long live deathstar 40k.

So Grey Knights may be competitive now?

That Celestine/Draigo combo is an abomination in my eyes.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
So Grey Knights may be competitive now?

I did well with a Draigowing throughout 6E. Just sucked against Gravspam White Scars/Centurionstars. A 20pt+ marine with standard 3+ armor will continue to be kinda crappy, though.

Also, what's the big news on Warding Staves?

A lot of people saying they got buffed.

Puscifer wrote:
That Celestine/Draigo combo is an abomination in my eyes.

Great, I'll be running it very soon.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Puscifer wrote:
Also, what's the big news on Warding Staves?

A lot of people saying they got buffed.

You can now put SoB/IG priests into units of Grey Knights. They have an ability called War Hymns, one of which allows rerolled failed armor/invuln saves. Staves give a 2++ save in close combat. If you take the SoB priests with Litanies of Faith, they automatically pass War Hymns tests for their unit.

Hence that terrible unit inside of a LRC. Also, add in an Inquisitor with the Liber Heresius. Now it's a SCOUTING Land Raider Crusader.

Puscifer wrote:
Also, what's the big news on Warding Staves?

A lot of people saying they got buffed.

Throw in a priest for re-roll savfes.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
When it comes down to it i think all the Imperium armies respect the Chain-O-Command to a great degree and will follow any human of some rank or prestige even if grudgingly into battle, since that is what they are trained to do.

That is not how the Imperium's chain of command works. All three branches are defined by treason, and the Imperium's attempts to prevent such treason in the future. It's why there are only a thousand Space Marines in a Chapter, why the Sisters and Imperial Guard rely on the Imperial Navy for transport, why the Imperial Army became the Imperial Guard. The Inquisition has the authority to boss everyone around, but anyone else should be a step below Battle Brothers at best.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Just saw the allies matrix, am liking it a lot. Seems closer to the fluff than the last one, and I like that all Imperials are battle brothers with each other now. Opens up some very cool allying options for my Sisters.

All I see it Deathstars taking a cheap wound soak in St. Celestine and using her for hit &r run while stacking priests with the Litanies of Faith.

So Padadins, Centurionstars, TH/SS termies, etc. with Hit&Run on a durable gal with reroll everything in close combat automatically, forgoing the new psychic power phase. Pile that into a LRC, since the rumor stats battle bros can ride dirty in their pals vehicles... boom.

So basically, Squad of Paladins w/ Psycannons + Warding Staves in LRC, w/ 2 Priests, St Celestine, and Draigo. Burst out and move from combat to combat with rerollable 2+ armor / 2++ invulnerable. Break out, shoot your target down, club them with staves, rinse, repeat. Break apart in the back field with Draigo to cause double havoc. Include an Inquisitor or Tech Marine for grenade fun. Make sure a banner is in there so you auto-pass your Force Weapon checks. Ta-da, forgone the entire psychic phase and you can reap all the benefits.

It's 1K of points, sure, but support it with Exorcists, Dominions, and 20 girl sister squads camping objectives... Have some fun...

Please don't do that. Don't talk about it, don't think about it. Awful.

 Thokt wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Just saw the allies matrix, am liking it a lot. Seems closer to the fluff than the last one, and I like that all Imperials are battle brothers with each other now. Opens up some very cool allying options for my Sisters.

All I see it Deathstars taking a cheap wound soak in St. Celestine and using her for hit &r run while stacking priests with the Litanies of Faith.

So Padadins, Centurionstars, TH/SS termies, etc. with Hit&Run on a durable gal with reroll everything in close combat automatically, forgoing the new psychic power phase. Pile that into a LRC, since the rumor stats battle bros can ride dirty in their pals vehicles... boom.

So basically, Squad of Paladins w/ Psycannons + Warding Staves in LRC, w/ 2 Priests, St Celestine, and Draigo. Burst out and move from combat to combat with rerollable 2+ armor / 2++ invulnerable. Break out, shoot your target down, club them with staves, rinse, repeat. Break apart in the back field with Draigo to cause double havoc. Include an Inquisitor or Tech Marine for grenade fun. Make sure a banner is in there so you auto-pass your Force Weapon checks. Ta-da, forgone the entire psychic phase and you can reap all the benefits.

It's 1K of points, sure, but support it with Exorcists, Dominions, and 20 girl sister squads camping objectives... Have some fun...

Please don't do that. Don't talke about it, don't think about. Awful.

#Forgingthenarrative

I put a Paladin playing Yu-Gi-Oh wearing fluorescent yellow armor with green tinting on the table.

I take my narratives dead fething seriously.

 Leth wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Also, what's the big news on Warding Staves?

A lot of people saying they got buffed.

Throw in a priest for re-roll savfes.

Now that's brilliant. Perverse, but brilliant.

As for Centurionstar, how's that working out for people?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Also, what's the big news on Warding Staves?

A lot of people saying they got buffed.

Throw in a priest for re-roll savfes.

Now that's brilliant. Perverse, but brilliant.

As for Centurionstar, how's that working out for people?

 TheKbob wrote:
I put a Paladin playing Yu-Gi-Oh wearing fluorescent yellow armor with green tinting on the table.

I take my narratives dead fething seriously.

I like the cut of your jib.

 TheKbob wrote:

You can now put SoB/IG priests into units of Grey Knights. They have an ability called War Hymns, one of which allows rerolled failed armor/invuln saves. Staves give a 2++ save in close combat. If you take the SoB priests with Litanies of Faith, they automatically pass War Hymns tests for their unit.

Hence that terrible unit inside of a LRC. Also, add in an Inquisitor with the Liber Heresius. Now it's a SCOUTING Land Raider Crusader.

So like Screamerstar, but without any pesky rolling to see if you get your rerollable 2++ or enemy denying you during the psychic phase.

 Blacksails wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I put a Paladin playing Yu-Gi-Oh wearing fluorescent yellow armor with green tinting on the table.

I take my narratives dead fething seriously.

I like the cut of your jib.

Summon Exodia on the dual disk.

No half-bummed narratives in my house; thank you, good sah!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mavnas wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

You can now put SoB/IG priests into units of Grey Knights. They have an ability called War Hymns, one of which allows rerolled failed armor/invuln saves. Staves give a 2++ save in close combat. If you take the SoB priests with Litanies of Faith, they automatically pass War Hymns tests for their unit.

Hence that terrible unit inside of a LRC. Also, add in an Inquisitor with the Liber Heresius. Now it's a SCOUTING Land Raider Crusader.

So like Screamerstar, but without any pesky rolling to see if you get your rerollable 2++ or enemy denying you during the psychic phase.

Correct. But only in close combat. Hence the LRC and Hit & Run abuse, assuming they didn't nerf Hit & Run like they should have.

I fully expect some errata to come out regarding this new combo.

I can't see it sticking, it's too powerful.

Puscifer wrote:
I fully expect some errata to come out regarding this new combo.

I can't see it sticking, it's too powerful.

You are joking, right?

 TheKbob wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I fully expect some errata to come out regarding this new combo.

I can't see it sticking, it's too powerful.

You are joking, right?

Digs out Paladins and Priests.

Of course.

 TheKbob wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I fully expect some errata to come out regarding this new combo.

I can't see it sticking, it's too powerful.

You are joking, right?

Can't feel despair without hope, right?

Wait a minute...

This combo isn't that great.

Staves are 2++ in CC.

OK, so you get 2+ rerolled... Grav Weapons don't care.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, if you can manage to shoot them to death before they reach you in melee and tear you a new donkey-cave, then you're good to go.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Yes, if you can manage to shoot them to death before they reach you in melee and tear you a new donkey-cave, then you're good to go.

LMAO!!!

Considering I have Raukaan CentStar and Vindicators, I should be ok.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Just saw the allies matrix, am liking it a lot. Seems closer to the fluff than the last one, and I like that all Imperials are battle brothers with each other now. Opens up some very cool allying options for my Sisters.

All I see it Deathstars taking a cheap wound soak in St. Celestine and using her for hit &r run while stacking priests with the Litanies of Faith.

So Padadins, Centurionstars, TH/SS termies, etc. with Hit&Run on a durable gal with reroll everything in close combat automatically, forgoing the new psychic power phase. Pile that into a LRC, since the rumor stats battle bros can ride dirty in their pals vehicles... boom.

So basically, Squad of Paladins w/ Psycannons + Warding Staves in LRC, w/ 2 Priests, St Celestine, and Draigo. Burst out and move from combat to combat with rerollable 2+ armor / 2++ invulnerable. Break out, shoot your target down, club them with staves, rinse, repeat. Break apart in the back field with Draigo to cause double havoc. Include an Inquisitor or Tech Marine for grenade fun. Make sure a banner is in there so you auto-pass your Force Weapon checks. Ta-da, forgone the entire psychic phase and you can reap all the benefits.

It's 1K of points, sure, but support it with Exorcists, Dominions, and 20 girl sister squads camping objectives... Have some fun...

I'd play against it. I'd also make sure that 1k points would be walking after the first turn. #godilovemylancespam

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Yes, if you can manage to shoot them to death before they reach you in melee and tear you a new donkey-cave, then you're good to go.

Heh. double sixes on shokk attack gun.

As soon as you blow up that Land Raider (as you would first turn) they are a point sink foot slogging across the board with relatively poor shooting.

The 6th ed death stars are good because most of them can move super fast. This one does not.

Necron flyer list, FMC spam etc.. would just run rings around it.

Is CronAir still a thing ?

I haven't seen Crons in over a year.

 44Ronin wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Yes, if you can manage to shoot them to death before they reach you in melee and tear you a new donkey-cave, then you're good to go.

Heh. double sixes on shokk attack gun.

haha, yezzz! and gakloads of cheap dakka. make them throw ones

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Yes, if you can manage to shoot them to death before they reach you in melee and tear you a new donkey-cave, then you're good to go.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a donkey-cave exactly?

Well, donkeys are also called a 3 letter word that starts with a** and a cave is a hole in the ground. I'll let you work it out from there.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Yes, if you can manage to shoot them to death before they reach you in melee and tear you a new donkey-cave, then you're good to go.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a donkey-cave exactly?

Another word for a cave is a hole. Another word for a donkey is... Well, you can put it together at that point.

That leaked allies matrix is from a WD, right? When's that WD out?

Apologies, haven't really kept up with the new WD.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Yes, if you can manage to shoot them to death before they reach you in melee and tear you a new donkey-cave, then you're good to go.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a donkey-cave exactly?

It's dakka's censor. It automatically changes "a-hole" into donkey-cave.

http://tausend-tore.blogspot.de/

Did anyone already post the whole scan?

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Yes, if you can manage to shoot them to death before they reach you in melee and tear you a new donkey-cave, then you're good to go.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a donkey-cave exactly?

It's dakka's censor. It automatically changes "a-hole" into donkey-cave.

Ok I see now, thanks. The substitution doesn't really make sense where I'm from that's all.

It was less depressing without the article :(

Everyone does everything! All the time, everywhere. Whatever you want!
No, no, we really don't care what you do. Just do it. For the narration! For the mone..... for the emperor!

 Blacksails wrote:

 Thokt wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Just saw the allies matrix, am liking it a lot. Seems closer to the fluff than the last one, and I like that all Imperials are battle brothers with each other now. Opens up some very cool allying options for my Sisters.

All I see it Deathstars taking a cheap wound soak in St. Celestine and using her for hit &r run while stacking priests with the Litanies of Faith.

So Padadins, Centurionstars, TH/SS termies, etc. with Hit&Run on a durable gal with reroll everything in close combat automatically, forgoing the new psychic power phase. Pile that into a LRC, since the rumor stats battle bros can ride dirty in their pals vehicles... boom.

So basically, Squad of Paladins w/ Psycannons + Warding Staves in LRC, w/ 2 Priests, St Celestine, and Draigo. Burst out and move from combat to combat with rerollable 2+ armor / 2++ invulnerable. Break out, shoot your target down, club them with staves, rinse, repeat. Break apart in the back field with Draigo to cause double havoc. Include an Inquisitor or Tech Marine for grenade fun. Make sure a banner is in there so you auto-pass your Force Weapon checks. Ta-da, forgone the entire psychic phase and you can reap all the benefits.

It's 1K of points, sure, but support it with Exorcists, Dominions, and 20 girl sister squads camping objectives... Have some fun...

Please don't do that. Don't talke about it, don't think about. Awful.

#Forgingthenarrative

I got that at 1310 points not counting St. Celestine and assuming the priests are 25pts each.

10 paladins w/apothecary, 4 psycannons, 1 stave and Draigo = 1000pts
2 priests = 50pts
Landraider Crusader w/psybolt ammo = 260pts

You can thankfully only buy one staff per squad but 2+ armor re-rolling is bad enough. St. Celestine is only Toughness 3 so gets instant killed easily. You would have to be playing a pretty high point game to get your other required troops 1850-2k maybe even more if you wanted exorcists. It would be very hard to kill but at that points level it should be.

Another pretty nasty build for the same points which is legal now.
Pask punisher, relic plated = 213pts
2 executioners w/ plasma sponsons, relic plated = 376pts (get to re-roll gets hot due to preferred enemy)
Surrounded by 50 conscripts w/commissar and priest = 200pts
platoon command for FrFsrF! order = 30pts
2 infantry squads = 100pts
Dark Angels Librarian with power field generator = 95points (in infantry squad out of line of sight behind one of the tanks)
Dark Angels Tech Marine with power field generator = 85pts (in other infantry squad out of LOS)
5 man scout squad with camo and snipers (just cause I need a troop from DA)
3 primaris psykers to get divination powers maybe 4+ invul for the conscripts too but mainly for prescience on pask
1310 points, I should be able to get a demolisher for St Celestine's points or there abouts.

So we got 3 tanks that have preferred enemy, 4+ invul save, and a 4+ deny the witch from the relic armor and psychic hood from the libby, surrounded by 50 fearless dudes with a demolisher right behind them also with a 4+ invul save and a 4+ deny the witch. The libby and techmarine have 2+ LOS to 20 dudes with 4+ invuls as well.

Point being at around 1500 points it's a whole army and should be doing an armies worth of damage and taking an equal amount of punishment in return.

CtA Alliance with Tyranids is pretty good. We have a serious lack of backfield long range dakka, backfield is normally populated with pointless units, just standing there with there super short range guns. Now we just take front field Nid's (Which is most of the codex) and backfield *Whatever is best*

Tau broadsides? Pask in a vanquisher? 70pt conversion beamer inquisitors?

 Nem wrote:
CtA Alliance with Tyranids is pretty good. We have a serious lack of backfield long range dakka, backfield is normally populated with pointless units, just standing there with there super short range guns. Now we just take front field Nid's (Which is most of the codex) and backfield *Whatever is best*

How about Longfangs

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
So, the entire Imperium gets thrown together to mix and match at will, with plenty of allies.

The rest of the armies get nerfs, with the minor exception for nids.

What a pile of gak. So my Blood Axes are ruined. I cannot even begin to fathom how they managed to take the previous allies chart and MAKE IT WORSE?!?

Very angry.

One would suggest the cruel irony here is that you can indeed field your guard/ork force, by fielding an Unbound army.

Hi, there, Have you heard about our new product???

No? Oh well, I must tell you. It is Called Imperium-hammer. It is a book that takes you to a magical place not bound by reason or consideration of others. No, no, there is no time for such because in Imperium-hammer there is only time for the Imperium. Yes, it is all Imperium and nothing but Imperium here in Imperium-hammer.

Tired of struggling to beat those pesky xenos, Don't worry. Here in the realm of Imperium-hammer you won't have to worry about playing with other factions. You see here, all the Imperium factions can play with themselves for as long as they want. No worry of being interrupted by non-Imperium players,....well except for those comic clowns of the Waaughsup. But don't worry, Their codex is gonna get the old 'nids treatment if ya know what I mean. Wink, wink, nudge nudge.

Not for nothing but I've never seen a xenos player ally with any imperium faction before, never.

 reds8n wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
So, the entire Imperium gets thrown together to mix and match at will, with plenty of allies.

The rest of the armies get nerfs, with the minor exception for nids.

What a pile of gak. So my Blood Axes are ruined. I cannot even begin to fathom how they managed to take the previous allies chart and MAKE IT WORSE?!?

Very angry.

One would suggest the cruel irony here is that you can indeed field your guard/ork force, by fielding an Unbound army.

Unbound make the whole allies chart irrelevant, if you put it that way.

Right because not having a re-rollable 2++ in close combat is ALL draigowing needed to be a top tier army.

That is all that was keeping them out of the top tables. One second let me get back inside before the sky falls.

I love how so many people who were complaining about the rules being about "forging a narrative" are now bitching about the fact that they cant forge their specific narrative. Its quite hilarious

A couple of pages back, somebody posted a super-duper death star list. So my question is: is the new edition of 40k broken before it even hits the shelves?

That must be some kind of record.

As for allies, I will say this. If I got back into 40k (and it's as about as likely as me making a run for the white house in 2016) I would draw a line in the sand. No allies, no mutants, no abhumans, no psykers, no nothing that wasn't human. Racial purity would be the order of the day!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
A couple of pages back, somebody posted a super-duper death star list. So my question is: is the new edition of 40k broken before it even hits the shelves?

That must be some kind of record.

As for allies, I will say this. If I got back into 40k (and it's as about as likely as me making a run for the white house in 2016) I would draw a line in the sand. No allies, no mutants, no abhumans, no psykers, no nothing that wasn't human. Racial purity would be the order of the day!

Super duper death star was quickly shot down a page after.

And Dark Eldar can still side with Chaos. How does that make any sense...

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I cannot even begin to fathom how they managed to take the previous allies chart and MAKE IT WORSE?!?

Uhh... welcome to the Games Workshop HHHobby?

*runs*

My Sisters welcome their new Imperium overlords. Being able to use better transports is a killer.

bodazoka wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
A couple of pages back, somebody posted a super-duper death star list. So my question is: is the new edition of 40k broken before it even hits the shelves?

That must be some kind of record.

As for allies, I will say this. If I got back into 40k (and it's as about as likely as me making a run for the white house in 2016) I would draw a line in the sand. No allies, no mutants, no abhumans, no psykers, no nothing that wasn't human. Racial purity would be the order of the day!

Super duper death star was quickly shot down a page after.

I'm forging a narrative here - those shots missed, and the death star rumbles on!

Don't necrons hate chaos? Why would they be allies of convenience with CSM? No renegade guard though... yay. No gue'vesa either.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'm forging a narrative here - those shots missed, and the death star rumbles on!

haha I re roll my re rolls of my re rolls so my narrative wins!

 Yonan wrote:
Don't necrons hate chaos? Why would they be allies of convenience with CSM? No renegade guard though... yay. No gue'vesa either.

Because, as is becoming increasingly apparent as time goes on and with each new release, the people making 40K don't really understand what they're doing. To put it in 40K parlance, they're the Technomats of the Adeptus Mechanicus, hopelessly and endlessly attempting to recreate something without knowing how it works or even what it's supposed to do.


"Forge a Narrative"? "Cinematic Gaming"? These are the oft-recited catechisms of those who do what they do only because they know they have to, not because it makes any sense to them.

Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

 jackblg wrote:
Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

Two things:

1. Really? You "don't see" why people have problems with this? You've read those posts right, and possess the requisite reading comprehension to understand why people are saying what they're saying, yes? And you still don't see any reason, at all, whatsoever, why people might have some issues or concerns with the new allied chart?
2. Dismissing criticism as 'hate' is a bad thing to do. I'd advise against it.

 jackblg wrote:
Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

Not everyone hates everything. There will be different elements in each release some people don't like, and others that some people do - people are more likely to talk about what they don't like. This can be said for every release, things are different.

I like, and dislike some things. These are based on my own play experience, my meta, the army I play and my preferences - they won't be replicated by everyone.

Well honestly this 7Th is looking quite good and exactly what was asked by the playerbase (no i'm not joking). I'm actually starting to believe that they really took player's feedback into account when writing this. Let's check our wishlist for the new edition:

1) Deathstard addressed: Done. All existing stars were completely debunked one way or the other.
2) Assault buffed: Done. Jink saves changed and applied to jump inf is quite a big deal for assault. Difficult terrain to a flat -2 (and probably going to be ignored with MTC). Objectives being deployed before you choose your side, this is HUGE for assault armies, close to an auto win against gun lines.

Those were the most glaring problems of 6E. There is also the problem with battle brothers, supplements, dataslates and so on, which hasn't really been addressed, but you can't have everything.
There is also the point of the game balance, but that's mostly dependent on the codexes, what could be done via Rulebook has been done. Vehicle buff, walkers buff (smash nerf), diminishing return on psykers, FMC more survivable but less lethal.

My only fear left is the WS spam. That has yet to be correctly addressed and with double FOC you can spam them even more.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 jackblg wrote:
Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

Two things:

1. Really? You "don't see" why people have problems with this? You've read those posts right, and possess the requisite reading comprehension to understand why people are saying what they're saying, yes? And you still don't see any reason, at all, whatsoever, why people might have some issues or concerns with the new allied chart?
2. Dismissing criticism as 'hate' is a bad thing to do. I'd advise against it.

Sure I can see some valid reasons for having critisisms but the constant repetition, the over-reaching, constant making of negative assumptions and the shooting down of and insulting of people who enjoy the hobby is taking it to far IMO.

I dont mind valid criticism when it is sticking to the criticism but when it just becomes general insults it falls into the hate category.

"I dont approve of the random nature of the card system I think it has serious potential to cause unbalanced missions" - Valid criticism

"What the feth is GW thinking, this is an obvious money grab by offering these cards that are just going to ruin the game. Seriously how much of an idiot is GW. Making people buy more than just the overpriced piece of crap that is the rulebook just to play the game is bs. God just further proof they hate the tyranids. Seriously I cant believe anyone who is not legally slowed could enjoy this game" - Hate and yes typing as an indirect insult is still an insult dont even try to pretend otherwise.

Also just a heads up I am pretty sure the Q and A from Nafka is a troll so just best to ignore the answers.

If you read the text above the chart, it sounds like they're finally moving the story on abit.

Paraphrasing, it says the allies from 6th may have blossomed (imperium) or fallen apart (taudar), and some armies would never fight each unless it was the end times.

-Well now its the end times so some armies are forging alliances (nids) (Chaoscrons). That with some hints from newer codices (DA - The lion) maybe points towards them mixing things up a bit in terms of fluff progression.

Although, maybe, just maybe - I'm being too hopeful lol

Don't get me started in GW's "Forging a Narrative" or "Cinematic Gaming".

As a Scriptwriter for film and video games, I can tell you they haven't got a clue how to do either.

Spoletta wrote:
Well honestly this 7Th is looking quite good and exactly what was asked by the playerbase (no i'm not joking). I'm actually starting to believe that they really took player's feedback into account when writing this. Let's check our wishlist for the new edition:

1) Deathstard addressed: Done. All existing stars were completely debunked one way or the other.
2) Assault buffed: Done. Jink saves changed and applied to jump inf is quite a big deal for assault. Difficult terrain to a flat -2 (and probably going to be ignored with MTC). Objectives being deployed before you choose your side, this is HUGE for assault armies, close to an auto win against gun lines.

Those were the most glaring problems of 6E. There is also the problem with battle brothers, supplements, dataslates and so on, which hasn't really been addressed, but you can't have everything.
There is also the point of the game balance, but that's mostly dependent on the codexes, what could be done via Rulebook has been done. Vehicle buff, walkers buff (smash nerf), diminishing return on psykers, FMC more survivable but less lethal.

My only fear left is the WS spam. That has yet to be correctly addressed and with double FOC you can spam them even more.

I may have missed it. Where have deathstars been addressed? Tau were removed from the deathstar equation but it seems like the Imperial armies are cleared to run deathstar.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 jackblg wrote:
Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

Two things:

1. Really? You "don't see" why people have problems with this? You've read those posts right, and possess the requisite reading comprehension to understand why people are saying what they're saying, yes? And you still don't see any reason, at all, whatsoever, why people might have some issues or concerns with the new allied chart?
2. Dismissing criticism as 'hate' is a bad thing to do. I'd advise against it.

Nope sorry I dont see why (fine i wont use everyone) SOME people are (fine i wont use hate) DISLIKING it quite so much, its the allied chart its hardly like they have massively changed it so now the whole thing is bb or cta. Still I dont ally with anyone, in fact only 1 person at my local gaming club dos.

If some one would point of why people are disliking the allied chart and perhaps explain it in a rational way... I might understand it better...

Currently the imperium doesn't really have any death stars that are points efficient for what they do. Powers are not as reliable to cast for Eldar and Daemons nor will they be able to cast in as great of numbers.

Once the tau fire power gets reduced and the wave serpent fire power is also reduced(via jink saves nerf). Then the need for and ability of deathstars to dominate will decrease. The things that shut down death stars will be playable once that overwhelming firepower is not as strong.

 Shandara wrote:
My Sisters welcome their new Imperium overlords. Being able to use better transports is a killer.

Dare I dream? Repentia in a land raider..... they might actually get to use an assault vehicle.

 Leth wrote:
Currently the imperium doesnt really have any death stars that are points efficient for what they do.

Centurion-Star can be rather good if used well. But I agree, Xenos are far better at Death-Staring.

 AkharaVect wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Currently the imperium doesnt really have any death stars that are points efficient for what they do.

Centurion-Star can be rather good if used well. But I agree, Xenos are far better at Death-Staring.

It can be, but its only really good against death star armies. MSU and hordes make a mockery of that list, with the nerf to Tau shooting as well as Wave serpents and mission changes death stars will be on a significant decline.

Beast star and screamer star and jetseer council will still exist with this matrix. The key element here is how functional the psychic phase is when it comes to denying blessings.

For example - if the rule says you compare the successful psychic dice vs the successful deny dice to see if the power works, that's good.

If you have to block Every successful psychic dice to deny the witch, then powers will almost never get blocked which is bad.

 optometris wrote:
If you read the text above the chart, it sounds like they're finally moving the story on abit.

Paraphrasing, it says the allies from 6th may have blossomed (imperium) or fallen apart (taudar), and some armies would never fight each unless it was the end times.

-Well now its the end times so some armies are forging alliances (nids) (Chaoscrons). That with some hints from newer codices (DA - The lion) maybe points towards them mixing things up a bit in terms of fluff progression.

Although, maybe, just maybe - I'm being too hopeful lol

The only thing being moved along is the gravy train. A simple FAQ would have fixed more problems instead of making it a cash grab.

Spoletta wrote:
1) Deathstard addressed: Done. All existing stars were completely debunked one way or the other.

How are Beastpacks, Seer Councils and Centurionstars "debunked"? Am I missing something?

So now I can run Cypher in a Dark Angels list, right? Makes sense.

There are several existing Deathstars currently and other than the Tau Battle Brother change, there will still exist several Deathstars. For Imperials, there are several MORE deathstar builds than just Centurian-star.

The change to psychics have the potential to hinder Eldar/DE deathstars. Additionally, it will be very important to see how Hit and Run works.

Seer council gets hit harshly by the diminishing return of Psyker's dices. In 6E 2 farseers + 6 warlocks equal 12 WC worth of powers each turn. That same setup in 7E is around 5 WC each turn and i can probably single out and deny that one blessing i really don't want around. No i don't think it's going to work any more.

Spoletta wrote:
Seer council gets hit harshly by the diminishing return of Psyker's dices. In 6E 2 farseers + 6 warlocks equal 12 WC worth of powers each turn. That same setup in 7E is 4 WC each turn and i can probably single out and deny that one blessing i really don't want around. No i don't think it's going to work any more.

Uh, no - they still generate 12 dice +D6 more. If all they need are 2 powers (Protect, fortune) the unit will have ample dice to cast with, leaving enough for ghost helms to protect the farseers.

 jackblg wrote:
Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

Lets forge a Narrative. The USA allies with the Taliban to go against the British. This makes sense?

Would be interesting to see if Battle Brothers also share Warp Charges. So if I use a Farseer as an Ally in my DE army, will his Mastery Level count towards my WC pool? And how will it work with the other levels of Allies (convenience, desperate etc.)?

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Seer council gets hit harshly by the diminishing return of Psyker's dices. In 6E 2 farseers + 6 warlocks equal 12 WC worth of powers each turn. That same setup in 7E is 4 WC each turn and i can probably single out and deny that one blessing i really don't want around. No i don't think it's going to work any more.

Uh, no - they still generate 12 dice +D6 more. If all they need are 2 powers (Protect, fortune) the unit will have ample dice to cast with, leaving enough for ghost helms to protect the farseers.

It's still quite a fair deal of curses i'm not getting afflicted with.

Also:

 Leth wrote:


...with the nerf to Tau shooting as well as Wave serpents...

Did i miss some rumor??

Spoletta wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Seer council gets hit harshly by the diminishing return of Psyker's dices. In 6E 2 farseers + 6 warlocks equal 12 WC worth of powers each turn. That same setup in 7E is 4 WC each turn and i can probably single out and deny that one blessing i really don't want around. No i don't think it's going to work any more.

Uh, no - they still generate 12 dice +D6 more. If all they need are 2 powers (Protect, fortune) the unit will have ample dice to cast with, leaving enough for ghost helms to protect the farseers.

It's still quite a fair deal of curses i'm not getting afflicted with.

Also:

 Leth wrote:


...with the nerf to Tau shooting as well as Wave serpents...

Did i miss some rumor??

MCs can not be joined by ICs. Most of the tau super abilities were from 1-2 riptides being joined by a buff commander. Without the ignore cover there they are much less strong and will have to rely on much less reliable methods of ignore cover while also not having weapons that are as good as destroying tanks. Sure they can still get in broadsides, but broadsides are not even in the same league for problems as the riptide.

Wave serpents are now having to further choose between durability and fire power. With so many points invested in wave serpents they need those to be a source of fire power. Get them to jink and then move on, or they cant risk firing their shield. Tau were the only real death star that had large amount of killing power on top of mobility.

In addition with a reduction in the reliability of the shooting armies to remove large numbers of models from the table MSU and horde armies will be able to function better, which is the natural counter to death star armies. In addition the change to progressive missions more so than end of game shenanigans severely reduces the ability of death stars to win. So an individual change is not necessarily going to directly impact the ability of deathstars to function but a mix of rules. Add in the reduce reliability of psychic powers and the increased dangers of the perils chart death stars relying on psykers are not going to be able to function as well.

Davor wrote:

 jackblg wrote:
Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

Lets forge a Narrative. The USA allies with the Taliban to go against the British. This makes sense?

No that dosnt make sence. I never thought eldar should be bb with tau and yet 6th ed they are. 7th there now not. It could just be me, guess i should go ask my local gaming club about it see if they can enlighten me..

TimmyIsChaos wrote:
So now I can run Cypher in a Dark Angels list, right? Makes sense.

Unbound- still feels unlikely since his rules say- any other chapter except Dark Angels or their successors.

 jackblg wrote:

Davor wrote:

 jackblg wrote:
Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

Lets forge a Narrative. The USA allies with the Taliban to go against the British. This makes sense?

No that dosnt make sence. I never thought eldar should be bb with tau and yet 6th ed they are. 7th there now not. It could just be me, guess i should go ask my local gaming club about it see if they can enlighten me..

Actually, Eldrad himself said that the Tau will rise and eventually be the race that puts an end to Chaos. Therefore Eldar feel they have a duty to protect the Tau and work together as they could release them from the clutches of Slaanesh, Tau are willing to ally with any race and make frequent attempts to do so, so having the two of them as Battle Brothers made some sort of sense from a fluff perspective. Compare that to the likes of now (Chaos & Necrons) and you'll find that the fluff contradicts with the design GW is trying to implement.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Two things:

I swear a vein popped in my forehead when I read what you were replying to hahaha, And yeah, pretty much what I was thinking wrt your answer for my questions.

 Leth wrote:
"What the feth is GW thinking, this is an obvious money grab by offering these cards that are just going to ruin the game. Seriously how much of an idiot is GW. Making people buy more than just the overpriced piece of crap that is the rulebook just to play the game is bs. God just further proof they hate the tyranids. Seriously I cant believe anyone who is not legally slowed could enjoy this game" - Hate and yes typing as an indirect insult is still an insult dont even try to pretend otherwise.

Source? Looks like hyperbole to me.

Why are people saying jump units get jink? Where's the evidence of that?

I think Fluff/Design should be better left out of the overall conversation.

At this point, fluff does nothing but drive the divide even wider from what the design team is putting out (unless it's in a codex, where all bets are off).

Cash cow currently is the HH, where they don't tend to "re-write" history.

It almost seems they are forcing those who want to yearn for yesteryear to Forgeworld to pay/play 30k vs. the current system.

 GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

 jackblg wrote:

Davor wrote:

 jackblg wrote:
Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me...

Lets forge a Narrative. The USA allies with the Taliban to go against the British. This makes sense?

No that dosnt make sence. I never thought eldar should be bb with tau and yet 6th ed they are. 7th there now not. It could just be me, guess i should go ask my local gaming club about it see if they can enlighten me..

Actually, Eldrad himself said that the Tau will rise and eventually be the race that puts an end to Chaos. Therefore Eldar feel they have a duty to protect the Tau and work together as they could release them from the clutches of Slaanesh, Tau are willing to ally with any race and make frequent attempts to do so, so having the two of them as Battle Brothers made some sort of sense from a fluff perspective. Compare that to the likes of now (Chaos & Necrons) and you'll find that the fluff contradicts with the design GW is trying to implement.

AH now I understand. Thank You so much.

 Yonan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Two things:

I swear a vein popped in my forehead when I read what you were replying to hahaha, And yeah, pretty much what I was thinking wrt your answer for my questions.

 Leth wrote:
"What the feth is GW thinking, this is an obvious money grab by offering these cards that are just going to ruin the game. Seriously how much of an idiot is GW. Making people buy more than just the overpriced piece of crap that is the rulebook just to play the game is bs. God just further proof they hate the tyranids. Seriously I cant believe anyone who is not legally slowed could enjoy this game" - Hate and yes typing as an indirect insult is still an insult dont even try to pretend otherwise.

Source? Looks like hyperbole to me.

I have been reading this page since the beginning, you will find plenty of evidence of each type throughout the entire thread I just limited to an example of the types of things that pop up constantly not specifics.

But for example:

Here is what was said "Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me..."

questioning the reading comprehension is a indirect or direct insult of an individuals intelligence. From the context of what was actually said the individual does not place as much emphasis or important on the problems people have listed and so cant understand the level of venom. It shows being able to read so what was stated was not necessary. Now addressing them calling it hate would be fine. But an insult not based on anything said sounds closer to hate to me than criticism. Also personal attacks I believe are against forum rules, but I might be wrong.

Oddly enough it made it easy to flag people as ignored. When they engaged in examples of the above consistently I just ignored them. Made it a lot easier to be on these forums

I also have criticisms of the game, there are some things I don't like and could be done better. However those criticisms don't outweigh the benefits and joys I get from playing so I choose to focus on the positive. If the negatives started outweighing the benefits I would stop playing and drop it from my life as I have done periodically in the past.

 Leth wrote:
MCs can not be joined by ICs. Most of the tau super abilities were from 1-2 riptides being joined by a buff commander. Without the ignore cover there they are much less strong and will have to rely on much less reliable methods of ignore cover while also not having weapons that are as good as destroying tanks. Sure they can still get in broadsides, but broadsides are not even in the same league for problems as the riptide.

I'm gonna hold off judgment on this until I actually see it, though. It's based on one dude having (supposedly) read the rules book, and I've seen my fair share of people being convinced that ICs can't join MCs in 6th due to misreading the current rules. We'll see.

There is a guy doing QnA over at Natfka. Comment section is hilarious. Im not buying anything he is saying though, unless I get proof he really has a rulebook.

http://natfka.blogspot.de/2014/05/the-7th-edition-codex-qna-from-someone.html

 Green is Best! wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
My Sisters welcome their new Imperium overlords. Being able to use better transports is a killer.

Dare I dream? Repentia in a land raider..... they might actually get to use an assault vehicle.

You would still have T3 no armor save 17 points models that attacks at I1. What kind of even vaguely CC unit would not be able to completely refund itself if charged by repentia? Maybe expensive T5/6 MC and walkers. Gaunts, orks, even assault marines or terminators would just decimate the unit.

 AkharaVect wrote:
There is a guy doing QnA over at Natfka. Comment section is hilarious. Im not buying anything he is saying though, unless I get proof he really has a rulebook.

http://natfka.blogspot.de/2014/05/the-7th-edition-codex-qna-from-someone.html

Allegedly the same guy on BoLs has stated that this is all a massive troll, to prove how nasty other people are. Pretty amusing, seeing as all it's proven is that he's an unpleasant, rude attention whore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seems people are getting new WD today. Anyone got theirs yet? Anything interesting, other than the new SM Captain?

I'll leave these here. Just the cover and some close ups of the new Terminator Captain. Looks to be part of a new Ternminator box.
Found on the web.

 Squidbot wrote:

 AkharaVect wrote:
There is a guy doing QnA over at Natfka. Comment section is hilarious. Im not buying anything he is saying though, unless I get proof he really has a rulebook.

http://natfka.blogspot.de/2014/05/the-7th-edition-codex-qna-from-someone.html

Allegedly the same guy on BoLs has stated that this is all a massive troll, to prove how nasty other people are. Pretty amusing, seeing as all it's proven is that he's an unpleasant, rude attention whore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seems people are getting new WD today. Anyone got theirs yet? Anything interesting, other than the new SM Captain?

I'll leave these here. Just the cover and some close ups of the new Terminator Captain. Looks to be part of a new Ternminator box.
Found on the web.

Spoiler:

I'll never understand why people do stuff like this. This guy actually gave up his free time to spend it posting this kind of stuff? Must not have much else to do.

That and Faeit will post anything.

Though I will say, based on my past personal experiences, today is the first day that I would start expecting a rules leak. I used to routinely get my GW items (codex, rulebook, etc) from the store on Wednesdays. Helps if you make friends with the manager.

Cool, I kind of like the new captain sculpt, its not too ott. And thank feth his scabbard/cape isn't plastered in skulls

It does really prove Faeit will put any crap up.
"Here's a guy that is willing to lie and insult you all"
I can get that at work every day!

Looks like he's chomping on a sausage.


Samurai_Eduh was supposed to receive his copy of the rulebook yesterday night... hoping he'll post some stuff for us

Heretical sausage.

 Squidbot wrote:
It does really prove Faeit will put any crap up.
"Here's a guy that is willing to lie and insult you all"
I can get that at work every day!

I like the guy(Natfka) but this "article" is really a huge missed opportunity to pass on some "insider" input.

Anyways, just a few more days to wait (maybe hours if we consider someone having the book early)

 Leth wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Two things:

I swear a vein popped in my forehead when I read what you were replying to hahaha, And yeah, pretty much what I was thinking wrt your answer for my questions.

 Leth wrote:
"What the feth is GW thinking, this is an obvious money grab by offering these cards that are just going to ruin the game. Seriously how much of an idiot is GW. Making people buy more than just the overpriced piece of crap that is the rulebook just to play the game is bs. God just further proof they hate the tyranids. Seriously I cant believe anyone who is not legally slowed could enjoy this game" - Hate and yes typing as an indirect insult is still an insult dont even try to pretend otherwise.

Source? Looks like hyperbole to me.

I have been reading this page since the beginning, you will find plenty of evidence of each type throughout the entire thread I just limited to an example of the types of things that pop up constantly not specifics.

But for example:

Here is what was said "Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me..."

questioning the reading comprehension is a indirect or direct insult of an individuals intelligence. From the context of what was actually said the individual does not place as much emphasis or important on the problems people have listed and so cant understand the level of venom. It shows being able to read so what was stated was not necessary. Now addressing them calling it hate would be fine. But an insult not based on anything said sounds closer to hate to me than criticism. Also personal attacks I believe are against forum rules, but I might be wrong.

Oddly enough it made it easy to flag people as ignored. When they engaged in examples of the above consistently I just ignored them. Made it a lot easier to be on these forums

I also have criticisms of the game, there are some things I don't like and could be done better. However those criticisms don't outweigh the benefits and joys I get from playing so I choose to focus on the positive. If the negatives started outweighing the benefits I would stop playing and drop it from my life as I have done periodically in the past.

Your reading comprehension was questioned because you said you don't see why people are complaining. There have been many rational and legitimate criticisms and you made it sound as if you didn't understand any of it. The misunderstanding was on you and they called you on it. Next time be more precise and less condescending and you'll be alright.

I'm going to call up and see if I can pick up the book today. Had it shipped to my local shop. Fedex says its on the truck for delivery today.

 paqman wrote:

 Squidbot wrote:
It does really prove Faeit will put any crap up.
"Here's a guy that is willing to lie and insult you all"
I can get that at work every day!

I like the guy(Natfka) but this "article" is really a huge missed opportunity to pass on some "insider" input.

Anyways, just a few more days to wait (maybe hours if we consider someone having the book early)

Obviously I don't know the circumstances, but you'd think he'd ask for proof.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:
I'm going to call up and see if I can pick up the book today. Had it shipped to my local shop. Fedex says its on the truck for delivery today.

Crap, I just spent 10 minutes looking back in the thread for who said he was supposed to have his book today. When I come back to the end of the thread, you posted! LOL.
Anyways, can't wait to read from you tonight


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Squidbot wrote:

 paqman wrote:

 Squidbot wrote:
It does really prove Faeit will put any crap up.
"Here's a guy that is willing to lie and insult you all"
I can get that at work every day!

I like the guy(Natfka) but this "article" is really a huge missed opportunity to pass on some "insider" input.

Anyways, just a few more days to wait (maybe hours if we consider someone having the book early)

Obviously I don't know the circumstances, but you'd think he'd ask for proof.

I think these days he's working on automated mode. Anything that gets thrown at him is redirected to his blog... its unfortunate. I prefered his older style where I had the impression that he was filtering what was posted.

Closely watching /tg/ now!

Allies chart:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Two things:

I swear a vein popped in my forehead when I read what you were replying to hahaha, And yeah, pretty much what I was thinking wrt your answer for my questions.

 Leth wrote:
"What the feth is GW thinking, this is an obvious money grab by offering these cards that are just going to ruin the game. Seriously how much of an idiot is GW. Making people buy more than just the overpriced piece of crap that is the rulebook just to play the game is bs. God just further proof they hate the tyranids. Seriously I cant believe anyone who is not legally slowed could enjoy this game" - Hate and yes typing as an indirect insult is still an insult dont even try to pretend otherwise.

Source? Looks like hyperbole to me.

I have been reading this page since the beginning, you will find plenty of evidence of each type throughout the entire thread I just limited to an example of the types of things that pop up constantly not specifics.

But for example:

Here is what was said "Iam liking all this, dont see why everyones so hating on it.. Ah well must just be me..."

questioning the reading comprehension is a indirect or direct insult of an individuals intelligence. From the context of what was actually said the individual does not place as much emphasis or important on the problems people have listed and so cant understand the level of venom. It shows being able to read so what was stated was not necessary. Now addressing them calling it hate would be fine. But an insult not based on anything said sounds closer to hate to me than criticism. Also personal attacks I believe are against forum rules, but I might be wrong.

Oddly enough it made it easy to flag people as ignored. When they engaged in examples of the above consistently I just ignored them. Made it a lot easier to be on these forums

I also have criticisms of the game, there are some things I don't like and could be done better. However those criticisms don't outweigh the benefits and joys I get from playing so I choose to focus on the positive. If the negatives started outweighing the benefits I would stop playing and drop it from my life as I have done periodically in the past.

Your reading comprehension was questioned because you said you don't see why people are complaining. There have been many rational and legitimate criticisms and you made it sound as if you didn't understand any of it. The misunderstanding was on you and they called you on it. Next time be more precise and less condescending and you'll be alright.

Actually I didnt post the original comment, but nothing in the comment warranted an insult. If you actually read, he didnt see why people were hating TO THE EXTENT that they were, not that he couldnt see why people were hating. "so hating" is not the same as "hating".

Necron and BA BFF confirmed in new WD.

As for deathstar power decrease i agree :
- beaststar and seerstar need the reroll on save, now it can be denied potentially and you can only cast once per turn so if you miss or peril, there go the deathstar. Its not automatically dead as a build, but it is now possible to counter it much more easily
- many deathstar used the Tau toolbox commander and cant anymore (whether allied or with riptide)
- devstar is not hurt as much (only the fact that the ignore cover/ prescience can be denied)

The negativity from people is a showing that we still care and also secretly hope it's not hot street trash.

But $85 for a quality unseen is too rich for my tastes. Will enjoy the leaks coming soon...

... I remember the last few death throws of "false hope" when 6E released. The "Hold On, Hold On... we don't know everything yet!" that proved fatalistic and the much wanted changes were just wish listing turn rumors, much like the ignores cover save being -2 to your save.

Found this at http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2014/05/21/7th-edition-is-starting-to-look-pretty-cool/#comment-273000. Dunno if accurate:

Just got a quick glance in the new rulebook and can confirm a few things:
- New table for Perils, on a roll of 1 psyker takes a Ld, fail the Ld and the psyker dies instantly and any unit he/she is in takes d6 S6 AP1 hits. Roll a 2 and you loose the power and takes a wound. On the other hand, roll a 6 and you get 3+ invul and Fleshbane.
- New table for vehicle damage, indeed explodes is 7+ (6 is Immobilised)
- Santic powers looks alot lite Grey Knights old powers, spotted at least Hammerhand.
- FMC’s, one ground per phase and only on inflicted wounds. So worst case one test in psychic and one in shooting.
- Prescience is now 2 warpcharges.
- Battlebrothers, same as before BUT you can embark on your bro’s transport.

 TheKbob wrote:
The negativity from people is a showing that we still care and also secretly hope it's not hot street trash.

But $85 for a quality unseen is too rich for my tastes. Will enjoy the leaks coming soon...

... I remember the last few death throws of "false hope" when 6E released. The "Hold On, Hold On... we don't know everything yet!" that proved fatalistic and the much wanted changes were just wish listing turn rumors, much like the ignores cover save being -2 to your save.

Which is fair enough but when you are looking for trash and expecting trash it is much easier to focus in on the trash disregarding everything else.

Anyway for people on the fence I recommend checking out the live streams I am listing and collecting here. Very competitive players will be picking apart the rulebook and showing live practice games, I recommend checking them out at some point during the weekend.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/595981.page

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
My Sisters welcome their new Imperium overlords. Being able to use better transports is a killer.

Dare I dream? Repentia in a land raider..... they might actually get to use an assault vehicle.

You would still have T3 no armor save 17 points models that attacks at I1. What kind of even vaguely CC unit would not be able to completely refund itself if charged by repentia? Maybe expensive T5/6 MC and walkers. Gaunts, orks, even assault marines or terminators would just decimate the unit.

Don't hate on my sisters who are trying to redeem themselves in battle. And keep in mind those are T3 no armor save 17 point models with feel no pain.... thank you very much.

They may be awful, but they are a little less awful in a land raider.

 Squidbot wrote:

 AkharaVect wrote:
There is a guy doing QnA over at Natfka. Comment section is hilarious. Im not buying anything he is saying though, unless I get proof he really has a rulebook.

http://natfka.blogspot.de/2014/05/the-7th-edition-codex-qna-from-someone.html

Allegedly the same guy on BoLs has stated that this is all a massive troll, to prove how nasty other people are. Pretty amusing, seeing as all it's proven is that he's an unpleasant, rude attention whore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seems people are getting new WD today. Anyone got theirs yet? Anything interesting, other than the new SM Captain?

I'll leave these here. Just the cover and some close ups of the new Terminator Captain. Looks to be part of a new Ternminator box.
Found on the web.

Spoiler:

I hope he is a clamshell IC to buy and not a 'online only spend X to get' deal, I will be happy to grab him and some other stuff with my voucher

 Leth wrote:


Which is fair enough but when you are looking for trash and expecting trash it is much easier to focus in on the trash disregarding everything else.

Anyway for people on the fence I recommend checking out the live streams I am listing and collecting here. Very competitive players will be picking apart the rulebook and showing live practice games, I recommend checking them out at some point during the weekend.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/595981.page

To ignore the actions and releases of Games Workshop over the past 6 months to a year would be to ignore a massive trend of worsening releases. Nothing about this release screams "change for the better." At most, it's amazingly neutral. GW needed to come out and say "We heard you, this is broke, here's a list of things that are making you all rabble-rousers..." Then they imply with their tone "Wasn't 6E Great?! Guess what, it gets even GREATERER!"

I'll wait for the shortened battle reports that TeamSG does. I'll be out playing games from companies that can at least pretend to care or working on hobby time, etc.

The new terminator captain is exclusive to the strike force ultra box.
Captain
10x tactical terminators
10x assault terminators
Venerable dread
Storm raven
Land raider crusader
$325 US

Rick_1138 wrote:
*SNIP*

I hope he is a clamshell IC to buy and not a 'online only spend X to get' deal, I will be happy to grab him and some other stuff with my voucher

Looking in the other thread (New Terminator Captain), it looks like he may be part of a kind of Battleforce box.

Edit: Ninja! What he said

Ah well, wont be getting him then.

Bit daft of GW to be putting this out the week after the new edition as many people simply wont spend about £70 on book and cards, then another £200 on a strike force set.

I would love a termy army as I love the playstyle but I just grabbed the munitorum edition so GW got my birthday spends...although they have given me a £50 voucher and I COULD ebay the standard rulebook for £30....and sell some stuf....hmmm

 Green is Best! wrote:


Don't hate on my sisters who are trying to redeem themselves in battle. And keep in mind those are T3 no armor save 17 point models with feel no pain.... thank you very much.

They may be awful, but they are a little less awful in a land raider.

Once per game in the Assault phase if they pass a Leadership test. Truly sad.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Leth wrote:


Which is fair enough but when you are looking for trash and expecting trash it is much easier to focus in on the trash disregarding everything else.

Anyway for people on the fence I recommend checking out the live streams I am listing and collecting here. Very competitive players will be picking apart the rulebook and showing live practice games, I recommend checking them out at some point during the weekend.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/595981.page

To ignore the actions and releases of Games Workshop over the past 6 months to a year would be to ignore a massive trend of worsening releases. Nothing about this release screams "change for the better." At most, it's amazingly neutral. GW needed to come out and say "We heard you, this is broke, here's a list of things that are making you all rabble-rousers..." Then they imply with their tone "Wasn't 6E Great?! Guess what, it gets even GREATERER!"

I'll wait for the shortened battle reports that TeamSG does. I'll be out playing games from companies that can at least pretend to care or working on hobby time, etc.

I would take it step farther and say anything since the Chapterhouse debacle.

Hollismason wrote:

coredump wrote:

Hollismason wrote:


I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

.

Nope. Ally detachment FOC requires being a different faction from the primary.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Where are you guys missing that they can still take those allies in a battle forged army, they just cant deploy within 12 of each other.

And don't get within 6" during the game or risk going catotonic.

Where are you getting this at because multiple people have pointed out Tyranids allying with themselves.

People point out a lot of things... often because they are jumping the gun on parital information.

In this case, the ALlied detachment FOC specifically restricts it to a different faction than the primary. So no, Nids can't ally with Nids.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:

coredump wrote:

Hollismason wrote:


I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

.

Nope. Ally detachment FOC requires being a different faction from the primary.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Where are you guys missing that they can still take those allies in a battle forged army, they just cant deploy within 12 of each other.

And don't get within 6" during the game or risk going catotonic.

That was not the complaint. It was that they could not take the models that they owned. There are still ways to play it and possibly make it work

Regardless, your response was inaccurate, so I corrected it. They don't "just" have to deploy 12" away, they also need to deal with the Desparate Allies restrictions. Which this edition means staying away from each other or test for going catatonic.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

coredump wrote:

Hollismason wrote:


I like that I can now ally with myself and get an additional Annihilation barge if I want.

.

Nope. Ally detachment FOC requires being a different faction from the primary.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:
Where are you guys missing that they can still take those allies in a battle forged army, they just cant deploy within 12 of each other.

And don't get within 6" during the game or risk going catotonic.

from what was said earlier though, there was no limit on primary/secondary detachments, sure it comes with the HQ + Troop tax, BUT you can then field as many detachments as you have points to spend, so you COULD take 3 hq 6 troops and 9 HS if you so desired... there is no need to ally with yourself.

and remember the wording is now FACTION, not Codex. so IOM can take whatever it pleases from within the faction as allies or detachments. making their life much easier...

If you read the page with the ally chart, the 'faction' issue is pretty well dealt with. A Faction is a codex and its supplements.

Those that are assuming you can just take an unlimited number of Combined Arms detachments are making quite a leap based on a partial scan of incomplete rules. It *may* be true, but seems pretty unlikely. Why bother with any Ally Detachment at all, if you can just take another Combined Arms detachment....??

@coredump... aren't you allowed to take two full detachments (double FoC) at any point level in 7th? Not necessarily allying with yourself, but yeah, you are.

ninja'd by your edit....

I've not seen anything to imply you can't. It actually says it be have any of the following... does any mean "only one"? (not saying it doesn't, typical GW rules vagueness)

 Vector Strike wrote:

- New table for vehicle damage, indeed explodes is 7+ (6 is Immobilised)

And Tyranids take a big nerf. Heavy Venom Cannon, and Rupture Cannon are now worthless. Warp Lance is nerfed even further. Even Close combat will have trouble popping vehicles. Way to go GW!

A dakkafex charging a Land Raider currently has about 20% chance of exploding it, and generally will do 1.5 Hull points. Now the chance to explode drops to 7.5%. So, it will take 3 Carnifexes charging a Land Raider to have a reasonable chance to destroy it.

A dakkafex vs a Lemun Russ is similar. Currently have a 81.5% chance of exploding it. That drops to 29.6%. On the plus side, it will still do 3.89 Hull Points to back armor 11.

The biggest problem is that most vehicles (transports especially) are faster than MC's. So we are luck to get a charge on them by turn 4. Giving us one turn to pop them.

If you operate in a meta that likes to spam Land Raiders as much as mine (40% of all lists have 1, 15% of all lists have 2, 2% of all lists have 3), this change is going to make for a very long winter for Tyranids. We don't have Melta wargear of any sort. Our High strength shooting is all AP:4, except for warp lance which is 18" S10 AP:2 and a psychic shooting attack (Mastery Level 2) carried by a standard infantry unit with no deployment options besides walking across the board. If we can roll Mastery Level +1 dice for psychic powers and need 4s it means that warp lance will fail to cast 50% of the time.

 optometris wrote:
If you read the text above the chart, it sounds like they're finally moving the story on abit.

Paraphrasing, it says the allies from 6th may have blossomed (imperium) or fallen apart (taudar), and some armies would never fight each unless it was the end times.

-Well now its the end times so some armies are forging alliances (nids) (Chaoscrons). That with some hints from newer codices (DA - The lion) maybe points towards them mixing things up a bit in terms of fluff progression.

Although, maybe, just maybe - I'm being too hopeful lol

If you would like to look at Warhammer Fantasy, which has been in 'The End Times' for an entire edition so far, I think you are being too hopeful. They aren't moving the story on a bit, since they've had the 13th Black Crusade at Cadia in 999 of M41 since 5th edition. They haven't moved past the last 0.01% of the 41st Millennium since the Eye of Terror campaign.

Honestly, as much as I think that is dumb, it doesn't bother me.

What bothers me is building up everything (13th Black Crusade, Tau expansion, Hive Fleet incursions, Necron awakening, failing Golden Throne) and then NOT RESOLVING ANYTHING. In the latest White Dwarf (not the one that hits the stands on the 24th), Mat Ward says "...it's like the all-out action scenes at the end of an amazing action movie. It's the big fight we've all been waiting for."

Yes, Mat. All-out action scenes in movies always stop midway. All the amazing action movies always conclude in mid-fight, leaving the entire situation unresolved.

Does he have an overactive bladder? Has he been forced to leave during every action movie in his lifetime, only to return during the credits? My condolences, Mr. Ward.


If you're not going to resolve a massive, pivotal, galaxy-changing event, then don't introduce one. It's Warhammer 40,000. There's a whole THOUSAND years of war, and the dolts at the studio insist on focusing all their energy on about 10 years at one end of it. Weren't their battles throughout the entire millennium? What happened in those? Even if, for whatever dorky reason, you refuse to talk about ANYTHING that happened in the 42nd millennium*, you have a THOUSAND FRICKING YEARS of war. Why put all of the stuff in one end bit?

For that matter, given the popularity of the Horus Heresy, why not provide sourcebooks for the 40th millennium, or the 39th?

*

tag8833 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

- New table for vehicle damage, indeed explodes is 7+ (6 is Immobilised)

And Tyranids take a big nerf. Heavy Venom Cannon, and Rupture Cannon are now worthless. Warp Lance is nerfed even further. Even Close combat will have trouble popping vehicles. Way to go GW!

A dakkafex charging a Land Raider currently has about 20% chance of exploding it, and generally will do 1.5 Hull points. Now the chance to explode drops to 7.5%. So, it will take 3 Carnifexes charging a Land Raider to have a reasonable chance to destroy it.

A dakkafex vs a Lemun Russ is similar. Currently have a 81.5% chance of exploding it. That drops to 29.6%. On the plus side, it will still do 3.89 Hull Points to back armor 11.

The biggest problem is that most vehicles (transports especially) are faster than MC's. So we are luck to get a charge on them by turn 4. Giving us one turn to pop them.

If you operate in a meta that likes to spam Land Raiders as much as mine (40% of all lists have 1, 15% of all lists have 2, 2% of all lists have 3), this change is going to make for a very long winter for Tyranids. We don't have Melta wargear of any sort. Our High strength shooting is all AP:4, except for warp lance which is 18" S10 AP:2 and a psychic shooting attack (Mastery Level 2) carried by a standard infantry unit with no deployment options besides walking across the board. If we can roll Mastery Level +1 dice for psychic powers and need 4s it means that warp lance will fail to cast 50% of the time.

I doubt it. No one would be able to cast WC 3.

That's not how psychic powers work at all. I don't know why people keep regurgitating this ML +1 as it would make the statements they made about using 6 dice to power a Psychic Power just blatantly false.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Leth wrote:


Which is fair enough but when you are looking for trash and expecting trash it is much easier to focus in on the trash disregarding everything else.

Anyway for people on the fence I recommend checking out the live streams I am listing and collecting here. Very competitive players will be picking apart the rulebook and showing live practice games, I recommend checking them out at some point during the weekend.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/595981.page

To ignore the actions and releases of Games Workshop over the past 6 months to a year would be to ignore a massive trend of worsening releases. Nothing about this release screams "change for the better." At most, it's amazingly neutral. GW needed to come out and say "We heard you, this is broke, here's a list of things that are making you all rabble-rousers..." Then they imply with their tone "Wasn't 6E Great?! Guess what, it gets even GREATERER!"

I'll wait for the shortened battle reports that TeamSG does. I'll be out playing games from companies that can at least pretend to care or working on hobby time, etc.

and to be fair that is your perspective. I have not had any troubles with the last 6 months of releases. I think tyranids had some shortcomings but if some of the rumored changes are true a lot of units make a lot more sense. I think IG is fantastic and obviously presented in a way that limits FAQs required as much as possible so close to 7tth. I enjoyed the options offered by the dataslates that are not 100% mandatory in any way shape or form but offer options. I also throughly enjoyed the space marine release and felt that it was a fantastic book. I was upset about the lack of FAQs but if they knew they were working on a new edition I understand. Customer service has always been top notch, I just called up saying that I got 3 miscast crusaders and they are sending me three new ones. No returns required no hassle on my part. Now how many companys let you keep the faulty product AND send you a replacement questions unasked nor pictures required? With a little work I can now get 6 crusaders out of the deal.

They are not coming out and directly saying they made a mistake and you know what I wouldnt expect them to, overall I thought the edition was very enjoyable. In this release they are trying to address a lot of the problems in the game, maybe not all of them, but a lot of them. They are working on sharing the rules in advance, especially for new units so you have an idea if they are worth it. They are working on improving the digital experience for everyone releasing e-books that I have taken full advantage of. Instead of selling the thick hardcover rulebook and then having to get the thin little one for convenience I now can just get the big hardcover I was going to get anyway and not have to get the small rulebook later.

I throughly enjoyed 6th edition, I found that the problems were mainly in two aspects: The overly simple missions, and the lack of terrain mainly LOS blocking, only one of which was GWs fault and I can understand why they went with simple missions for casual players. When both of those are on the table all of a sudden completely different armies are winning and much more variety can compete. Raven Guard made it to the top table of a GT against a field full of Ovesa Star and Seer Star as well as knights for flip sake, considered one of the worst chapter tactics.

The models and kits in general have just gotten better and better, offering more customization options and ability to cross kit than any other range out there,

So for all the negatives that you are focusing on, you have to recognize is that it is your opinion on how things have been going it which is 100% A-OK. Just because people don't have your interpretation or view of things does not make them inferior. It just means that YOU are not getting what you want from the game. I heartily endorse spending your time and effort where you are going to get the most enjoyment.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Leth wrote:


Which is fair enough but when you are looking for trash and expecting trash it is much easier to focus in on the trash disregarding everything else.

Anyway for people on the fence I recommend checking out the live streams I am listing and collecting here. Very competitive players will be picking apart the rulebook and showing live practice games, I recommend checking them out at some point during the weekend.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/595981.page

To ignore the actions and releases of Games Workshop over the past 6 months to a year would be to ignore a massive trend of worsening releases. Nothing about this release screams "change for the better." At most, it's amazingly neutral. GW needed to come out and say "We heard you, this is broke, here's a list of things that are making you all rabble-rousers..." Then they imply with their tone "Wasn't 6E Great?! Guess what, it gets even GREATERER!"

I'll wait for the shortened battle reports that TeamSG does. I'll be out playing games from companies that can at least pretend to care or working on hobby time, etc.

For me it comes down to the fact that I really enjoyed 6th Ed. I thought it was a huge improvement over 5th (the edition I started playing in). I still want to continue to play the game and I know that I'll buy the rulebook eventually so why not just buy it on release day.

Spoletta wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

- New table for vehicle damage, indeed explodes is 7+ (6 is Immobilised)

And Tyranids take a big nerf. Heavy Venom Cannon, and Rupture Cannon are now worthless. Warp Lance is nerfed even further. Even Close combat will have trouble popping vehicles. Way to go GW!

A dakkafex charging a Land Raider currently has about 20% chance of exploding it, and generally will do 1.5 Hull points. Now the chance to explode drops to 7.5%. So, it will take 3 Carnifexes charging a Land Raider to have a reasonable chance to destroy it.

A dakkafex vs a Lemun Russ is similar. Currently have a 81.5% chance of exploding it. That drops to 29.6%. On the plus side, it will still do 3.89 Hull Points to back armor 11.

The biggest problem is that most vehicles (transports especially) are faster than MC's. So we are luck to get a charge on them by turn 4. Giving us one turn to pop them.

If you operate in a meta that likes to spam Land Raiders as much as mine (40% of all lists have 1, 15% of all lists have 2, 2% of all lists have 3), this change is going to make for a very long winter for Tyranids. We don't have Melta wargear of any sort. Our High strength shooting is all AP:4, except for warp lance which is 18" S10 AP:2 and a psychic shooting attack (Mastery Level 2) carried by a standard infantry unit with no deployment options besides walking across the board. If we can roll Mastery Level +1 dice for psychic powers and need 4s it means that warp lance will fail to cast 50% of the time.

I doubt it. No one would be able to cast WC 3.

My guess (pure speculation) is that there is some sort of affinity that gives you success on 3+ rather than 4+ if you draw all of your powers from one psychic table. That would mean that ML:3 caster casting a WC 3 power could use 4 dice, and would have a 59.3% chance of getting off a Warp Charge 3 spell. The comment is that the WC3 spells are too powerful, but if they only work about 1/2 of the time, that would make them just fine. If there is no 3+ for affinity, the chance of a ML:3 psyche casting a WC 3 spell on ML+1 (4) dice would be 31.3%.

tag8833 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

- New table for vehicle damage, indeed explodes is 7+ (6 is Immobilised)

And Tyranids take a big nerf. Heavy Venom Cannon, and Rupture Cannon are now worthless. Warp Lance is nerfed even further. Even Close combat will have trouble popping vehicles. Way to go GW!

A dakkafex charging a Land Raider currently has about 20% chance of exploding it, and generally will do 1.5 Hull points. Now the chance to explode drops to 7.5%. So, it will take 3 Carnifexes charging a Land Raider to have a reasonable chance to destroy it.

A dakkafex vs a Lemun Russ is similar. Currently have a 81.5% chance of exploding it. That drops to 29.6%. On the plus side, it will still do 3.89 Hull Points to back armor 11.

The biggest problem is that most vehicles (transports especially) are faster than MC's. So we are luck to get a charge on them by turn 4. Giving us one turn to pop them.

If you operate in a meta that likes to spam Land Raiders as much as mine (40% of all lists have 1, 15% of all lists have 2, 2% of all lists have 3), this change is going to make for a very long winter for Tyranids. We don't have Melta wargear of any sort. Our High strength shooting is all AP:4, except for warp lance which is 18" S10 AP:2 and a psychic shooting attack (Mastery Level 2) carried by a standard infantry unit with no deployment options besides walking across the board. If we can roll Mastery Level +1 dice for psychic powers and need 4s it means that warp lance will fail to cast 50% of the time.

I doubt it. No one would be able to cast WC 3.

My guess (pure speculation) is that there is some sort of affinity that gives you success on 3+ rather than 4+ if you draw all of your powers from one psychic table. That would mean that ML:3 caster casting a WC 3 power could use 4 dice, and would have a 59.3% chance of getting off a Warp Charge 3 spell. The comment is that the WC3 spells are too powerful, but if they only work about 1/2 of the time, that would make them just fine. If there is no 3+ for affinity, the chance of a ML:3 psyche casting a WC 3 spell on ML+1 (4) dice would be 31.3%.

ML+1 was debunked in the white dwarf. Any caster can use as many dice as they want.