Skilled fighter:
1. the warlord has the counter attack special rule.
2. the warlord has the furious charge special rule.
3. the warlord hase the outflank special rule.
4. the warlord gains 1 victory point for each charactermodell he kills in a challenge.
5. the warlord has the feel no pain special rule.
6.the warlord has the fearless and it will not die special rule.
Skilled Leader:
1. all allied units within 12" can use the warlords LD.
2. all enemys within 12" of the warlord have to use the lowest LD.
3.the warlord and all friendly units within 12" of the warlord have the move through cover special rule.
4. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" add +1" on run and assault moves.
5. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the shooting phase.
6. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the assault phase.
Skilled Tactican:
1.as long as your warlord is alive you can discard 2 mission objectives per turn instead of 1.
2. one use only: declare at the end of one of your turns. if you declare the warlord trait your enemy has to discard one random mission objective of his.
3.obtain a additional mission objective at the start of your first turn.
4. when declaring mission objectives in your first turn you can select to discard up to all your mission objectives and draw new ones.
5.as long as your warlord is alive you can reroll the victory point result that you get for each mission objective archived.
6. for all tactical secured tactical mission objectives x (x is 1-6) you archive you gain a additional victory point.
Vector Strike wrote: Sanctuary, inside Sanctic, looks very good. WC 1 for +1 Invul will look good with Forewarning (just 2 dice to reliably cast it). It's worth the chance for perils. Paladins with 4++ with Sanctuary?
Is there any word about a psyker still being able to roll only powers they have ML <= WC? Or can a ML 1 Libby pick up a WC 3 power?
Better yet, full 10man THSS squad for that delicious 2+ invul save.
Edit: WOW Much skilled
Kinda sad about losing reserve manipulations and stuff in the other tactician table but now i get to be a yugiho duel master.
Vector Strike wrote: Sanctuary, inside Sanctic, looks very good. WC 1 for +1 Invul will look good with Forewarning (just 2 dice to reliably cast it). It's worth the chance for perils.
Paladins with 4++ with Sanctuary?
Is there any word about a psyker still being able to roll only powers they have ML <= WC? Or can a ML 1 Libby pick up a WC 3 power?
Better yet, full 10man THSS squad for that delicious 2+ invul save.
Vector Strike wrote: Sanctuary, inside Sanctic, looks very good. WC 1 for +1 Invul will look good with Forewarning (just 2 dice to reliably cast it). It's worth the chance for perils.
Paladins with 4++ with Sanctuary?
Is there any word about a psyker still being able to roll only powers they have ML <= WC? Or can a ML 1 Libby pick up a WC 3 power?
Forwarning + Sancutary. 3++ paladins with a 2++ draigo. Depending on if he can roll powers on another table that is. Or if he's stuck with codex. If not, then Librarian
After looking at the summary chart of what races get what powers, several are missing. What about Nids? I am assuming Tau and SOB should just be X's all the way across. Also, do Dark Eldar have psykers? Do they fall under Eldar?
The random nature of Perils is now also just silly. Suffering 'perils' but getting a better invuln or other boosts if you roll well? Random tables does not good game design make.
Vector Strike wrote: Sanctuary, inside Sanctic, looks very good. WC 1 for +1 Invul will look good with Forewarning (just 2 dice to reliably cast it). It's worth the chance for perils.
Paladins with 4++ with Sanctuary?
Is there any word about a psyker still being able to roll only powers they have ML <= WC? Or can a ML 1 Libby pick up a WC 3 power?
Better yet, full 10man THSS squad for that delicious 2+ invul save.
Green is Best! wrote: After looking at the summary chart of what races get what powers, several are missing. What about Nids? I am assuming Tau and SOB should just be X's all the way across. Also, do Dark Eldar have psykers? Do they fall under Eldar?
Just wondering.
Nids are limited to codex powers only, Tau and Sisters are out because they have no psykers, and neither do Dark Eldar.
Red Corsair wrote: Wow, invisibility is broken as feth! If you thought killing seer councils was difficult before, try needing 6's to hit them in hth and shooting as well as template immunity... I'll even go so far as to say they no longer need fortune as long as they are invisible....
Skilled fighter:
1. the warlord has the counter attack special rule.
2. the warlord has the furious charge special rule.
3. the warlord hase the outflank special rule.
4. the warlord gains 1 victory point for each charactermodell he kills in a challenge.
5. the warlord has the feel no pain special rule.
6.the warlord has the fearless and it will not die special rule.
Skilled Leader:
1. all allied units within 12" can use the warlords LD.
2. all enemys within 12" of the warlord have to use the lowest LD.
3.the warlord and all friendly units within 12" of the warlord have the move through cover special rule.
4. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" add +1" on run and assault moves.
5. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the shooting phase.
6. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the assault phase.
Skilled Tactican:
1.as long as your warlord is alive you can discard 2 mission objectives per turn instead of 1.
2. one use only: declare at the end of one of your turns. if you declare the warlord trait your enemy has to discard one random mission objective of his.
3.obtain a additional mission objective at the start of your first turn.
4. when declaring mission objectives in your first turn you can select to discard up to all your mission objectives and draw new ones.
5.as long as your warlord is alive you can reroll the victory point result that you get for each mission objective archived.
6. for all tactical secured tactical mission objectives x (x is 1-6) you archive you gain a additional victory point.
Hm. Escalation warlord traits are gone, or is the Escalation book still relevant?
Skilled fighter:
1. the warlord has the counter attack special rule.
2. the warlord has the furious charge special rule.
3. the warlord hase the outflank special rule.
4. the warlord gains 1 victory point for each charactermodell he kills in a challenge.
5. the warlord has the feel no pain special rule.
6.the warlord has the fearless and it will not die special rule.
Skilled Leader:
1. all allied units within 12" can use the warlords LD.
2. all enemys within 12" of the warlord have to use the lowest LD.
3.the warlord and all friendly units within 12" of the warlord have the move through cover special rule.
4. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" add +1" on run and assault moves.
5. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the shooting phase.
6. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the assault phase.
Skilled Tactican:
1.as long as your warlord is alive you can discard 2 mission objectives per turn instead of 1.
2. one use only: declare at the end of one of your turns. if you declare the warlord trait your enemy has to discard one random mission objective of his.
3.obtain a additional mission objective at the start of your first turn.
4. when declaring mission objectives in your first turn you can select to discard up to all your mission objectives and draw new ones.
5.as long as your warlord is alive you can reroll the victory point result that you get for each mission objective archived.
6. for all tactical secured tactical mission objectives x (x is 1-6) you archive you gain a additional victory point.
From Tau perspective, I'd try Skilled Leader (or Tactician in Maelstrom of War) if I'm not in the mood to use the codex's ones. BUt they look a bit subpar.
Desubot wrote:
Vector Strike wrote: Sanctuary, inside Sanctic, looks very good. WC 1 for +1 Invul will look good with Forewarning (just 2 dice to reliably cast it). It's worth the chance for perils.
Paladins with 4++ with Sanctuary?
Is there any word about a psyker still being able to roll only powers they have ML <= WC? Or can a ML 1 Libby pick up a WC 3 power?
Better yet, full 10man THSS squad for that delicious 2+ invul save.
Indeed... Put a GK Libby in their midst and safely cast Sanctuary.
Green is Best! wrote:After looking at the summary chart of what races get what powers, several are missing. What about Nids? I am assuming Tau and SOB should just be X's all the way across. Also, do Dark Eldar have psykers? Do they fall under Eldar?
Just wondering.
I think they just didn't care about putting non-psyker factions there. Necrons are missing as well.
Nids will be able to use only their Codex powers, it seems.
Skilled fighter:
1. the warlord has the counter attack special rule.
2. the warlord has the furious charge special rule.
3. the warlord hase the outflank special rule.
4. the warlord gains 1 victory point for each charactermodell he kills in a challenge.
5. the warlord has the feel no pain special rule.
6.the warlord has the fearless and it will not die special rule.
Skilled Leader:
1. all allied units within 12" can use the warlords LD.
2. all enemys within 12" of the warlord have to use the lowest LD.
3.the warlord and all friendly units within 12" of the warlord have the move through cover special rule.
4. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" add +1" on run and assault moves.
5. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the shooting phase.
6. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the assault phase.
Skilled Tactican:
1.as long as your warlord is alive you can discard 2 mission objectives per turn instead of 1.
2. one use only: declare at the end of one of your turns. if you declare the warlord trait your enemy has to discard one random mission objective of his.
3.obtain a additional mission objective at the start of your first turn.
4. when declaring mission objectives in your first turn you can select to discard up to all your mission objectives and draw new ones.
5.as long as your warlord is alive you can reroll the victory point result that you get for each mission objective archived.
6. for all tactical secured tactical mission objectives x (x is 1-6) you archive you gain a additional victory point.
If true, I much prefer these to the old ones. The first and third seem like they might be worth rolling on.
As a tyranid and deldar player, the new psychic powers frustrate me. I have one psychic race tha can't use them, and a race that just doesn't care at all. At the beginning of sixth I was excited for biomancy, and even telekinesis(though not good, I enjoyed the thought of my Hive Tyrant outstretching a clawed hand and Crushing an enemy unit). Know it's just a part of the game I ignore for the most part.
I'm really not liking how Psychic stuff is turning into a Fantasy-esque thing in terms of functionality and power. Not having a Psyker looks to be very detrimental in 7E, and there's *huge* numbers of factions in the game where there inclusion would be contrary to fluff.
Vaktathi wrote: I'm really not liking how Psychic stuff is turning into a Fantasy-esque thing in terms of functionality and power. Not having a Psyker looks to be very detrimental in 7E, and there's *huge* numbers of factions in the game where there inclusion would be contrary to fluff.
Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Sisters. That's 4. Not really "huge".
Also it seems Adamantium Will is a denial buff so it's not like Sisters are completely screwed.
Oh noes! Divination primaris is warp charge 2 now! I guess it would be overpowered at one but still, that stinks.
Is anyone aware of an online calculator which can calculate odds like "I have four dice, what's the chance of rolling at least two 6s." Or "I have three dice, what's the chance that at least two would come up 4+."
You know from a game perspective, you are shooting yourself in the foot if you only play units from one codex now. For instance, I would be stupid to only play Sisters without some serious psyker support which flies in the face of established game lore, but without I will just lose to any sort of real combined army. I see the cash grab, but is this really what GW wants because I can see how it might sour people like me on the experience? The other issue, is that the value of relative points is even more important. In the face of mixed units and armies those units which are not worth their points will never see the light of day. Its sad.
I know I am not articulating this well, as the written word is not my best medium, but I am not liking what this edition is going to do to the game based on what I am seeing here already with brief descriptions of ultimate combo units.
Perils of the Warp
1. Dragged into the Warp: Psyker takes a leadership test, if passed suffers 1 wound or glancing hit no saves.if failed he is removed as a casualty and his unit takes d6 S6 AP1 hits. The hits come from the psyker for allocation
2. Mental Purge: Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves. randomly select one power from the psyker. its lost for the rest of the game.
3. Power Drain: Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves. if its the psychic phase, both players lose d3 warp charge points
4. Psychic Backlash: Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves.
5. Empyric Feedback: Psyker takes a leadership test. if failed Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves. If passed no effect.
6. Warp Surge Psyker takes a leadership test. if failed Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves. If passed psyker gains a 3+ invul, fleshbane, armour bane, and smash until the next friendly psychic phase.
BarBoBot wrote:CSM get divination now! Dont have to rely on a single crimson slaughter sorcerer anymore!
Oh my, missed that! Thousand Sons became playable!
Yes, yes all the blessings look nice and spammable until your Psyker blows himself up trying to get them off, or gets denied back to before the Heresy because people will do that to yank the lynchpins out of people's lists.
Vaktathi wrote: I'm really not liking how Psychic stuff is turning into a Fantasy-esque thing in terms of functionality and power. Not having a Psyker looks to be very detrimental in 7E, and there's *huge* numbers of factions in the game where there inclusion would be contrary to fluff.
Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Sisters. That's 4. Not really "huge".
Also it seems Adamantium Will is a denial buff so it's not like Sisters are completely screwed.
Vaktathi wrote: I'm really not liking how Psychic stuff is turning into a Fantasy-esque thing in terms of functionality and power. Not having a Psyker looks to be very detrimental in 7E, and there's *huge* numbers of factions in the game where there inclusion would be contrary to fluff.
Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Sisters. That's 4. Not really "huge".
There's also various SM chapters and IG regiments that would fall under this, Khornate CSM's and Daemons, etc. Knights have no integrated psychic support (they could take allies, but having to take allies to counter a built in game phase feels...very wrong). But even just staying at 4, that's still pretty big.
Also it seems Adamantium Will is a denial buff so it's not like Sisters are completely screwed.
BarBoBot wrote: CSM get divination now! Dont have to rely on a single crimson slaughter sorcerer anymore!
Yea sadly the prescience revolution continues with even greater access
I still find it funny that so much attention is at using 2-3 powers to get a better invuln in here when invisibility literally just avoids being hit to begin with. Even had S D not been nerfed, it would have made seer councils immune.
Seriously no one else is concerned with the power ramp on invisibility?
zachwho wrote: has the fmc change about assault been confirmed, or still just rumor?
Thus far I have seen no confirmation. It seems like a ludicrous change, basically ending all assaults for FMCs.
that rule alone would probably make me rage quit.
Last week I saw someone say "maybe they'll balance out the grounding rules by..." And that's it. So far, no one who has seen the book has reported that, as far as I've seen. It's possible, but I personally think it's BS.
BarBoBot wrote: CSM get divination now! Dont have to rely on a single crimson slaughter sorcerer anymore!
Yea sadly the prescience revolution continues with even greater access
I still find it funny that so much attention is at using 2-3 powers to get a better invuln in here when invisibility literally just avoids being hit to begin with. Even had S D not been nerfed, it would have made seer councils immune.
Seriously no one else is concerned with the power ramp on invisibility?
ClockworkZion wrote: Also it seems Adamantium Will is a denial buff so it's not like Sisters are completely screwed.
It seems Adamantium Will only works against powers that target enemy units, and therefore do nothing to fix the horrible gakky gak of terribly bad stuff that can happens due to combining multiple blessings. Or even just using biomancy on a MC.
The condemnor boltgun would be nice if it did not have to hit then wound then failed saves then allocated to a psycher before doing anything, all while being one shot only per game.
As someone who gets purposefully shafted by the rules, still, it does seem like 1-2 disciplines, again, really stand out among the others. But alas, since when does GW know how to write rules.
The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
Vaktathi wrote: I'm really not liking how Psychic stuff is turning into a Fantasy-esque thing in terms of functionality and power. Not having a Psyker looks to be very detrimental in 7E, and there's *huge* numbers of factions in the game where there inclusion would be contrary to fluff.
Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Sisters. That's 4. Not really "huge".
Also it seems Adamantium Will is a denial buff so it's not like Sisters are completely screwed.
Khornate Chaos and Black Templars.
Which are both part of codexes that have Psykers in them so I'm not counting them. I was only counting actual codexes.
Though I should add "Imperial Knights" to the list I guess.
ClockworkZion wrote: Also it seems Adamantium Will is a denial buff so it's not like Sisters are completely screwed.
It seems Adamantium Will only works against powers that target enemy units, and therefore do nothing to fix the horrible gakky gak of terribly bad stuff that can happens due to combining multiple blessings. Or even just using biomancy on a MC.
Suck. Still, helping to deny psychic powers cast on my units will help.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
I think they do otherwise , why would some of those other armies have that listed? For example Chaos Space Marines or Space Marines. Who knows though but we do know they have Access to Malifec.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
I'm going to assume that the rulebook will make note of whom can take what. That, OR, a Day 1 or 2 FAQ.
Vaktathi wrote: I'm really not liking how Psychic stuff is turning into a Fantasy-esque thing in terms of functionality and power. Not having a Psyker looks to be very detrimental in 7E, and there's *huge* numbers of factions in the game where there inclusion would be contrary to fluff.
Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Sisters. That's 4. Not really "huge".
There's also various SM chapters and IG regiments that would fall under this, Khornate CSM's and Daemons, etc. Knights have no integrated psychic support (they could take allies, but having to take allies to counter a built in game phase feels...very wrong). But even just staying at 4, that's still pretty big.
If we really want to go down the road of listing every single faction that doesn't normally use psykers we could be here all day. There are only 6 Codexes (I'd forgotten Legion of the Damned and Imperial Knights before) with no Psykers in them. Now if you play a codex with Psykers and choose to not use them it's hardly the codexes fault now is it?
Also it seems Adamantium Will is a denial buff so it's not like Sisters are completely screwed.
BarBoBot wrote: CSM get divination now! Dont have to rely on a single crimson slaughter sorcerer anymore!
Yea sadly the prescience revolution continues with even greater access
I still find it funny that so much attention is at using 2-3 powers to get a better invuln in here when invisibility literally just avoids being hit to begin with. Even had S D not been nerfed, it would have made seer councils immune.
Seriously no one else is concerned with the power ramp on invisibility?
I'm just imaging a Jetseer council with Shrouded +Jink+Fortune+Invisibility on it.
You still get d6 dice to DtW and if you are truly worried about Psykers you can always ally in as many Inquisitors as you want with null rods. Poof youre immune.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
I think they do otherwise , why would some of those other armies have that listed? For example Chaos Space Marines or Space Marines. Who knows though but we do know they have Access to Malifec.
Also why would Eldar be listed?
We need an FAQ since the chart doesn't specify which psykers can take which schools, example here being warlocks and farseers, regular grey knights and gk libbys, or simply tigurius and sm psykers.
. At least just for that there should be either info on the rulebook(which would be a bit silly since it can go obsolete with a codex change) or an faq just like the one we had when 6th came.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
So my local GW guy just turned down a $100 bribe to give me my book today. Oh well, it seems other people got thiers so maybe they can share the goods.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
You can't be serious.
Last edition, they put out an FAQ within 24 hours that specified who exactly got access to what. Expect the same, but it is hinting that Chaos will get Divination.
Vaktathi wrote: I'm really not liking how Psychic stuff is turning into a Fantasy-esque thing in terms of functionality and power. Not having a Psyker looks to be very detrimental in 7E, and there's *huge* numbers of factions in the game where there inclusion would be contrary to fluff.
Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Sisters. That's 4. Not really "huge".
There's also various SM chapters and IG regiments that would fall under this, Khornate CSM's and Daemons, etc. Knights have no integrated psychic support (they could take allies, but having to take allies to counter a built in game phase feels...very wrong). But even just staying at 4, that's still pretty big.
If we really want to go down the road of listing every single faction that doesn't normally use psykers we could be here all day. There are only 6 Codexes (I'd forgotten Legion of the Damned and Imperial Knights before) with no Psykers in them. Now if you play a codex with Psykers and choose to not use them it's hardly the codexes fault now is it?
I would add Farsight enclave also. Still Tau but also a seperate codex now.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
By that logic, no armies can take demonology psychic disciplines, because the codex doesn't list it...
I think its quite obvious that the chart is referencing the new psychic discipline a availability. CSM has divination.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
You can't be serious.
There are 3 psychers in the Imperial Guard codex. They do not all have access to the same powers. Why would you assume that ALL Imperial Guard types of psychers get both Sanctic and Maelfic?
<--- Expects a Day 1 or Day 2 FAQ with which psychers get which powers.
Maybe that all get it. That's perfectly fine. But don't assume anything.
Vaktathi wrote: I'm really not liking how Psychic stuff is turning into a Fantasy-esque thing in terms of functionality and power. Not having a Psyker looks to be very detrimental in 7E, and there's *huge* numbers of factions in the game where thereinclusion would be contrary to fluff.
Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Sisters. That's 4. Not really "huge".
Also it seems Adamantium Will is a denial buff so it's not like Sisters are completely screwed.
Khornate Chaos and Black Templars.
Which are both part of codexes that have Psykers in them so I'm not counting them. I was only counting actual codexes.
Though I should add "Imperial Knights" to the list I guess.
I've bolded the key part of the debate that you're completely missing. You're trying to refute something while ignoring the key limitation central to the premise.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
I think they do otherwise , why would some of those other armies have that listed? For example Chaos Space Marines or Space Marines. Who knows though but we do know they have Access to Malifec.
Also why would Eldar be listed?
Why wouldn't Eldar be listed? Farseers have access to the listed powers in addition to their own. In their case, there have been no changes except for the addition of daemonology (which I am totally using, BTW).
Vaktathi wrote: I'm really not liking how Psychic stuff is turning into a Fantasy-esque thing in terms of functionality and power. Not having a Psyker looks to be very detrimental in 7E, and there's *huge* numbers of factions in the game where there inclusion would be contrary to fluff.
Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Sisters. That's 4. Not really "huge".
There's also various SM chapters and IG regiments that would fall under this, Khornate CSM's and Daemons, etc. Knights have no integrated psychic support (they could take allies, but having to take allies to counter a built in game phase feels...very wrong). But even just staying at 4, that's still pretty big.
If we really want to go down the road of listing every single faction that doesn't normally use psykers we could be here all day. There are only 6 Codexes (I'd forgotten Legion of the Damned and Imperial Knights before) with no Psykers in them. Now if you play a codex with Psykers and choose to not use them it's hardly the codexes fault now is it?
I would add Farsight enclave also. Still Tau but also a seperate codex now.
It's a codex supplement and needs the Tau codex to work, so it's not a separate codex and doesn't count.
BarBoBot wrote: CSM get divination now! Dont have to rely on a single crimson slaughter sorcerer anymore!
Yea sadly the prescience revolution continues with even greater access
I still find it funny that so much attention is at using 2-3 powers to get a better invuln in here when invisibility literally just avoids being hit to begin with. Even had S D not been nerfed, it would have made seer councils immune.
Seriously no one else is concerned with the power ramp on invisibility?
My markerlights aren't.
I dare you to waste every mark light in your army for one or two hits just to boost one units BS to what....3... Yea I'd be very concerned as a tau player especially, you'd get rolled hard.
Perils of the Warp
1. Dragged into the Warp: Psyker takes a leadership test, if passed suffers 1 wound or glancing hit no saves.if failed he is removed as a casualty and his unit takes d6 S6 AP1 hits. The hits come from the psyker for allocation
2. Mental Purge: Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves. randomly select one power from the psyker. its lost for the rest of the game.
3. Power Drain: Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves. if its the psychic phase, both players lose d3 warp charge points
4. Psychic Backlash: Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves.
5. Empyric Feedback: Psyker takes a leadership test. if failed Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves. If passed no effect.
6. Warp Surge Psyker takes a leadership test. if failed Psyker suffers 1 wound/glancing hit no saves. If passed psyker gains a 3+ invul, fleshbane, armour bane, and smash until the next friendly psychic phase.
I wouldn;t mind the 6th result if the pass gave all that cool stuff but then you were removed from play...................
Skilled fighter: 1. the warlord has the counter attack special rule. 2. the warlord has the furious charge special rule. 3. the warlord hase the outflank special rule. 4. the warlord gains 1 victory point for each charactermodell he kills in a challenge. 5. the warlord has the feel no pain special rule. 6.the warlord has the fearless and it will not die special rule.
Skilled Leader: 1. all allied units within 12" can use the warlords LD. 2. all enemys within 12" of the warlord have to use the lowest LD. 3.the warlord and all friendly units within 12" of the warlord have the move through cover special rule. 4. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" add +1" on run and assault moves. 5. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the shooting phase. 6. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the assault phase.
Skilled Tactican: 1.as long as your warlord is alive you can discard 2 mission objectives per turn instead of 1. 2. one use only: declare at the end of one of your turns. if you declare the warlord trait your enemy has to discard one random mission objective of his. 3.obtain a additional mission objective at the start of your first turn. 4. when declaring mission objectives in your first turn you can select to discard up to all your mission objectives and draw new ones. 5.as long as your warlord is alive you can reroll the victory point result that you get for each mission objective archived. 6. for all tactical secured tactical mission objectives x (x is 1-6) you archive you gain a additional victory point.
Seems salty to me. Especially since Skilled Tactician would do nothing if not playing Maelstrom.
Yeah, but one power you have to roll for on a second-rate discipline doesn't overly scare me especially since the defending player can deny that one key power.
Kronk the CSM codex currently has limitations listed in the unit entries for which disciplines a psyker can take even though CSM as a whole have access to many of the different disciplines.
AM will probably get an errata, or there will be a reference chart in the back of the brb telling which units access which discipline like the hull point one in 6th gave older codexs their info.
If we really want to go down the road of listing every single faction that doesn't normally use psykers we could be here all day. There are only 6 Codexes (I'd forgotten Legion of the Damned and Imperial Knights before) with no Psykers in them. Now if you play a codex with Psykers and choose to not use them it's hardly the codexes fault now is it?
We could also add Tempestus Scions to it also the FWDKoK and Armored Battlegroup lists do not have access to them if one's inclined to include FW stuff.
That said, I'm not saying it's the codex's fault, I'm saying it's the fault of what appears to be the new core rules for making it so more more necessary. This game is nothing without its fluff, if this game was just another generic scifi lasergun setting with the same rules it would have died out long ago. There's lots of factions within armies that ostensibly have psyker support as options, but that wouldn't use them (i.e. a World Eaters CSM army). Magic is super powerful in Fantasy, and I don't want to see it become the same thing in 40k (which it looks like its trending towards), but Fantasy also has a lot fewer armies with aversions to magic/psychic powers.
Unsure why people are thinking the new rules wouldn't update what disciplines psykers could use in existing codexes if the card says they have access to these powers now...
warboss wrote: I've bolded the key part of the debate that you're completely missing. You're trying to refute something while ignoring the key limitation central to the premise.
1. I didn't miss anything I saw it but didn't agree with the assessment. 2. I clearly counted by codex and even said so. 3. And if you dig deep enough into fluff about the only ones who never get Psykers (either of their own or by working with them) are Necrons. Oh wait, they teamed up with Blood Angels that one time. Even Khorne has had Psykers doing his bidding in the past (who else would preform the rituals to open the gates to let his Daemons into the universe?), he just doesn't like Psykers using their powers in battle (as it doesn't fit into his "martial prowess" theme). And we don't know if the MoK is getting changed or not in the next FAQ either. I could see them easily slapping "Adamantium Will" in there for them. So really we've got ONE faction that MIGHT be getting screwed but they're part of a CODEX that isn't. So yeah, not counting it.
BarBoBot wrote: Kronk the CSM codex currently has limitations listed in the unit entries for which disciplines a psyker can take even though CSM as a whole have access to many of the different disciplines.
AM will probably get an errata, or there will be a reference chart in the back of the brb telling which units access which discipline like the hull point one in 6th gave older codexs their info.
It's almost as if you and I are assuming the same thing...
WrentheFaceless wrote: Unsure why people are thinking the new rules wouldn't update what disciplines psykers could use in existing codexes if the card says they have access to these powers now...
You haven't played GW games for very long, have you...
Rumor has it that the Tzeentch chariot might actually be able to do something once 7th hits...
Vaktathi wrote:I'm just imaging a Jetseer council with Shrouded +Jink+Fortune+Invisibility on it.
I'd just pack up I think.
Well, all these powers must be cast by Farseers... and it's harder to cast now. Having all these (not forgetting DtW) in one unit will be pretty hard.
Samurai_Eduh wrote:So my local GW guy just turned down a $100 bribe to give me my book today. Oh well, it seems other people got thiers so maybe they can share the goods.
Sucks, man. Looks like his job pays quite well... or he has no other in sight
Red Corsair wrote:I dare you to waste every mark light in your army for one or two hits just to boost one units BS to what....3... Yea I'd be very concerned as a tau player especially, you'd get rolled hard.
Depends on how many MLs I use... or I can kill everything else the guy has.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Unsure why people are thinking the new rules wouldn't update what disciplines psykers could use in existing codexes if the card says they have access to these powers now...
It is a reference card. That's it. It says nothing about all psychers in said faction having availability to said disciplines. For example, chaos with supplements have access to all but telekinesis. No FAQ is necessary because it sayd in the parent codex what they can get. The only exceptions are the demonology lore which have been leaked already as being available to all players with the exception of sanctic/maelific to CD/GK.
People are making huge leaps here.
I'd hope dispelling blessings is much easier then I am expecting or invisibility fishing is going to be the new trend. That is the single most abusive power to date that they have printed and that's saying something.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
Red Corsair wrote:I dare you to waste every mark light in your army for one or two hits just to boost one units BS to what....3... Yea I'd be very concerned as a tau player especially, you'd get rolled hard.
Depends on how many MLs I use... or I can kill everything else the guy has.
wow you know your right. That makes invisibility much more balanced doesn't it
Basically imagine Any major threat to your army, say imperial knights, and imagine not being able to use blasts or templates and needing 6's to hit it as it marches on your tau
Desubot wrote: To be fair maybe they will change some of the snap fire rules to allow blasts and templates.
I doubt it or it will make fliers really strange. Even if they did, your bargaining with the icing on that power cake. Just needing 6's to hit in any phase is horrible rules design. But I am with you, lets at least hope I am wrong/overestimating.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
A new edition of Apocalypse seems somewhat redundant. Most of the rules are now in the main rulebook and dataslates seem like a better way to sell the unit rules.
I believe the psykic reference card is just showing which power can be use within the faction not that all psyker in the faction can use all those powers.
CSM have access to divination through the Crimson Slaughter artifact, Eldar can use a force weapon with Eldrad so they are listed as having access.
The codex state which schools you can choose from, the exception being that we have seen a specific entry in the new book stating that all psykers can use Daemonoligy unless it is stated otherwise in their entry.
Lets assume that the forthcoming ork codex has a new discipline for them to use.
WisdomLS wrote: I believe the psykic reference card is just showing which power can be use within the faction not that all psyker in the faction can use all those powers.
CSM have access to divination through the Crimson Slaughter artifact, Eldar can use a force weapon with Eldrad so they are listed as having access.
The codex state which schools you can choose from, the exception being that we have seen a specific entry in the new book stating that all psykers can use Daemonoligy unless it is stated otherwise in their entry.
Lets assume that the forthcoming ork codex has a new discipline for them to use.
My thoughts exactly. Tigurius gives divination. I am guessing access to disciplines remains the same as 6th. When was the last time GW made a quick reference that wasn't ambiguous or wrong?
I kind of agree with that assessment that there will either be a FAQ or a chart in the back of the book, but I could see it goingthe other way as well and that being what people have access to.
We know everyone has access to Daemonology except Tyranids though .
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
Red Corsair wrote:I dare you to waste every mark light in your army for one or two hits just to boost one units BS to what....3... Yea I'd be very concerned as a tau player especially, you'd get rolled hard.
Depends on how many MLs I use... or I can kill everything else the guy has.
wow you know your right. That makes invisibility much more balanced doesn't it
Basically imagine Any major threat to your army, say imperial knights, and imagine not being able to use blasts or templates and needing 6's to hit it as it marches on your tau
no it doesn't, but at least I have something to do about it. Now armies without even some kind of good TL weapons/number of shots will suffer a lot
The only saving grace is that invisibility is WC 2, so basically only demons and eldar and GK's have access to warp charge farms making the power less of a nuisance to get off. But even if that's the only power cast each turn it is unhinged. Just think of all the insane units this makes almost unkillable.
So, Chaos Marines now have access to both Malefic and Santic Daemonology.
As far as I can tell, the Invulnerable save buffs from both schools stack. This means that you can have Daemon engines with 3++ saves and characters, possessed and obliterators with 2++.
I wonder what force weapons orks will have? I hope they can get force axes. That would make warpheads pretty scary if they can be kept alive long enough.
The only saving grace is that invisibility is WC 2, so basically only demons and eldar and GK's have access to warp charge farms making the power less of a nuisance to get off. But even if that's the only power cast each turn it is unhinged. Just think of all the insane units this makes almost unkillable.
With no word of a lie, I started work painting up Be'Lakor last night.
I swear he's smiling a little bit more now than he was yesterday!
Perfect Organism wrote: So, Chaos Marines now have access to both Malefic and Santic Daemonology.
As far as I can tell, the Invulnerable save buffs from both schools stack. This means that you can have Daemon engines with 3++ saves and characters, possessed and obliterators with 2++.
I wonder what force weapons orks will have? I hope they can get force axes. That would make warpheads pretty scary if they can be kept alive long enough.
Nice catch. I am ok with it though as he will peril on any double on either table so he won't give you that combo for long.
Perfect Organism wrote: So, Chaos Marines now have access to both Malefic and Santic Daemonology.
As far as I can tell, the Invulnerable save buffs from both schools stack. This means that you can have Daemon engines with 3++ saves and characters, possessed and obliterators with 2++.
I wonder what force weapons orks will have? I hope they can get force axes. That would make warpheads pretty scary if they can be kept alive long enough.
And how about Mark of Tzeentch? Will it hold back to 3++ even if a model with it stands on the area with Cursed Earth?
The only saving grace is that invisibility is WC 2, so basically only demons and eldar and GK's have access to warp charge farms making the power less of a nuisance to get off. But even if that's the only power cast each turn it is unhinged. Just think of all the insane units this makes almost unkillable.
With no word of a lie, I started work painting up Be'Lakor last night.
I swear he's smiling a little bit more now than he was yesterday!
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
You're getting a BRAND NEW EDITION and you're already asking for FAQ's????
It's almost as if you're just reading every 5th post or are unfamiliar with 6th edition's release.
Or baiting people in this thread because he's got nothing better to do, and really deserves a smack across the nose with a rolled up newspaper?
It is kronk after all.
You'll both have to explain yourselves.
I've merely mentioned that not all IG psychers have the same powers and it's too early to expect that all IG psychers suddenly get the new powers. AND that I expect an FAQ to clarify it just like 6th edition did. Maybe they all get it. Great news! But I'm waiting for clarification.
What are either of you offering besides attacks?
Also, baiting? Please. If that's baiting, you haven't seen anything, young man.
Remember their are two versions of Coteaz as far as the rumors suggest. Meaning the none GK version will perils more often on Santic so the HQ slot is more valuable for Vortex fishing....If thats your thing
Cause my Level 3 librarian is going to cast D vortexes everywhere. Bwahahaha
Did I miss a rumor about what additional mastery levels give a psyker? Coteaz and another random iniquisitor get you three warp dice and two casters. For cheaper than a GK Librarian. So I don't get it. Probably because I missed something
So same as before but Coteaz sees less table time then.
I saw much less Bel'Akor in flying circus builds. It was mostly fatey and a LOC from my experience.
That's because Fateweaver needs to be your warlord to be effective, and Be'Lakor has higher LD. You need to ally him in, so you're putting at least 400 pts into that detachment, and if you're not playing 1750+ that gets very interesting to fit into your list.
Edit: Basically, it's nothing against Be'Lakor, it's just annoying to make that work and you needed another codex and some cultists along with him unlesss you dropped Fateweaver.
warboss wrote: I've bolded the key part of the debate that you're completely missing. You're trying to refute something while ignoring the key limitation central to the premise.
1. I didn't miss anything I saw it but didn't agree with the assessment. 2. I clearly counted by codex and even said so. 3. And if you dig deep enough into fluff about the only ones who never get Psykers (either of their own or by working with them) are Necrons. Oh wait, they teamed up with Blood Angels that one time.
Anything can potentially happen with any faction because we're talking about a game with a setting that takes place across thousands of years and unfathomable millions of cubic lightyears, that doesn't mean that factions don't have well founded archetypes that should only have the rarest of exceptions, and that players won't try to stick to them. Again, this game wouldn't last a year without its fluff, GW's (and by extension, 40k's) primary source of value is the setting and background. Mucking with that mucks with why people play the game.
And we don't know if the MoK is getting changed or not in the next FAQ either. I could see them easily slapping "Adamantium Will" in there for them.
I certainly wouldn't bank on that, GW does not have a history of adding abilities that otherwise were completely absent in FAQ/Errata documents, especially something like that. It's possible, but not something I'd really consider a likely possibility.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
A leak on how denying blessings can't happen fast enough. I am seriously hoping that 6's cancel successful WC's meaning if a seer throws 4 dice and gets 2 4+ for invisibility I'll only need one 6 to cancel it. If he were to throw 6 dice and get 3 4+ I'd need at least two 6's etc etc. Otherwise if you need to match all his charges it's never going to make a real impact.
Red Corsair wrote: A leak on how denying blessings can't happen fast enough. I am seriously hoping that 6's cancel successful WC's meaning if a seer throws 4 dice and gets 2 4+ for invisibility I'll only need one 6 to cancel it. If he were to throw 6 dice and get 3 4+ I'd need at least two 6's etc etc. Otherwise if you need to match all his charges it's never going to make a real impact.
That is a good point, if you only need to cancel one success of a multi charge power, then it shouldnt be too bad
Vaktathi wrote: Anything can potentially happen with any faction because we're talking about a game with a setting that takes place across thousands of years and unfathomable millions of cubic lightyears, that doesn't mean that factions don't have well founded archetypes that should only have the rarest of exceptions, and that players won't try to stick to them. Again, this game wouldn't last a year without its fluff, GW's (and by extension, 40k's) primary source of value is the setting and background. Mucking with that mucks with why people play the game.
Then there is no such thing as "fluff breaking" use of psykers in armies now is there? If anything can happen, and let's be really honest here: the fluff is definitely set up to make it that way on purpose, then that whole argument about players not being able to do X because it only presents in the fluff once or twice is silly. Just because it happened only once in writing should never preclude players from getting to use it. The fluff in 40k is open ended so you can create your own stories, which can include a Khorne army dragging around a Tzeentch sorcerer they've imprisoned to bring forth Daemons from the Warp if they so want.
In short: stop raining on people's fun just because you want to paint some lines on the ground and say that's how you want to play the game. Not everyone has to stand inside your little box you know.
Njal Stormpuppy wrote: Someone please let me know, have the new rules actually been branded as 7ed by gw yet?
Are you serious?
Yes. Very much so. Just go to the GW site....
Ok I just looked it up on the site, and it may have been because I was on my mobile device but nowhere could I find if being branded as warhanmer 40k 7ed
Only warhanmer 40k, even in the discription. Might just be being dumb here but either way, no need to be so sharp.
That's what I'm thinking. I'm guessing you're gonna need the WC cost in 6's to deny. Which still isn't that bad. Not great, but it does mean that you can throw all your dice at things like invisibility to keep it from flooring you. I'd almost want to roll invisibility so that the rest of my powers would go through
So MSS took an indirect though needed nerf. Because you activate Force during the Psyhic Phase, the psyker player can just not use Force and ensure he doesn't ID himself due to MSS.
Vaktathi wrote: Anything can potentially happen with any faction because we're talking about a game with a setting that takes place across thousands of years and unfathomable millions of cubic lightyears, that doesn't mean that factions don't have well founded archetypes that should only have the rarest of exceptions, and that players won't try to stick to them. Again, this game wouldn't last a year without its fluff, GW's (and by extension, 40k's) primary source of value is the setting and background. Mucking with that mucks with why people play the game.
Then there is no such thing as "fluff breaking" use of psykers in armies now is there? If anything can happen, and let's be really honest here: the fluff is definitely set up to make it that way on purpose, then that whole argument about players not being able to do X because it only presents in the fluff once or twice is silly. Just because it happened only once in writing should never preclude players from getting to use it. The fluff in 40k is open ended so you can create your own stories, which can include a Khorne army dragging around a Tzeentch sorcerer they've imprisoned to bring forth Daemons from the Warp if they so want.
In short: stop raining on people's fun just because you want to paint some lines on the ground and say that's how you want to play the game. Not everyone has to stand inside your little box you know.
I'm pretty sure you missed my point.
i'm not saying they have to play my way, in fact I'm pretty sure my point was that this would restrict playstyles. My original point was that the increasing move towards a WHFB style Magic phase, both in functionality and power, is going to force people to include psykers where they otherwise wouldn't. That was my point.
This is strongly evidenced by WHFB where armies without Wizards are very rare indeed on tables, and anti-magic/psyker fluff is far less strong, and there's only one army that can't take any magic in the first place.
Skullhammer wrote: I wonder how hammerhand works with a brotherhood as the card says the psyker gets the bonus and not as now the unit. 2 days to go.
It says the psyker and his unit, so Brotherhood would still get the entire power for the unit. You always nominate one guy to be the 'psyker' when you use the brotherhood rule
Devil wrote: Eldrad (67%fortune) then rolling Sanctuary (+1inv)
5xSpirit Seers (looking for you invisibility) or Farseer
Beastpack star
we are looking to deal with possible 3+inv rerollable unit that you can hit on snapshots? nice..
I'm hoping that casting powers proves to be a difficult and dangerous process, because everything I've heard about it so far sounds A-1 Crazy.
You need to roll a 4+ per Warp Charge to cast, and on double 6s on any of the dice, regardless of if you successfully manifest the power or not, you perils (outside of Daemonology which perils on ANY doubles outside of Grey Knights and Daemons).
Devil wrote: Eldrad (67%fortune) then rolling Sanctuary (+1inv)
5xSpirit Seers (looking for you invisibility) or Farseer
Beastpack star
we are looking to deal with possible 3+inv rerollable unit that you can hit on snapshots? nice..
I'm hoping that casting powers proves to be a difficult and dangerous process, because everything I've heard about it so far sounds A-1 Crazy.
That's because a bunch of people are basing it off assumption of rules, are getting the rules wrong, or just plain assuming best case scenarios. I'd say just wait out the next 48 hours and then read your book. I know GW told my local retailers at least they could sell as of noon on friday.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
You're getting a BRAND NEW EDITION and you're already asking for FAQ's????
Isn't that the point of this whole thing?
We'll need FAQs to bring the books in line with the new ruleset. Just the psychic powers alone requires a massive bit of FAQing of the books.
You missed the point.... GW needs monies... Time to update all the codexes again and make us all buy them again.... A couple of text corrections, a new 7th edition look-and-feel cover and $60, bingo - you have all your corrections.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
You're getting a BRAND NEW EDITION and you're already asking for FAQ's????
It's almost as if you're just reading every 5th post or are unfamiliar with 6th edition's release.
Or baiting people in this thread because he's got nothing better to do, and really deserves a smack across the nose with a rolled up newspaper?
It is kronk after all.
You'll both have to explain yourselves.
I've merely mentioned that not all IG psychers have the same powers and it's too early to expect that all IG psychers suddenly get the new powers. AND that I expect an FAQ to clarify it just like 6th edition did. Maybe they all get it. Great news! But I'm waiting for clarification.
What are either of you offering besides attacks?
Also, baiting? Please. If that's baiting, you haven't seen anything, young man.
I've been misconstrued. I was addressing you with regard to Uriel's Flame, who seems to be revelling in making these sorts of posts, and even in the fact that some of his posts have been deleted, I wasn't attacking you, I was offering an alternative reason as to why the post you quoted may have been written.
A dakkafex charging a Land Raider currently has about 20% chance of exploding it, and generally will do 1.5 Hull points. Now the chance to explode drops to 7.5%. So, it will take 3 Carnifexes charging a Land Raider to have a reasonable chance to destroy it.
But why should a dakkafex be able to easily destroy a (250 point) AV14 tank? Really, a dakkafex loadout is for shooting, not close combat (that's just a bit of an added bonus). You want carnifexes that smash through AV14, you have to sacrifice the shooting and go for the smashy bits. I truly don't see any problem here. That would be like me complaining that Grav-Centurians can't reliably kill a Ork boyz mob. Right tools for the job and all that.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
You're getting a BRAND NEW EDITION and you're already asking for FAQ's????
Isn't that the point of this whole thing?
We'll need FAQs to bring the books in line with the new ruleset. Just the psychic powers alone requires a massive bit of FAQing of the books.
You missed the point.... GW needs monies... Time to update all the codexes again and make us all buy them again.... A couple of text corrections, a new 7th edition look-and-feel cover and $60, bingo - you have all your corrections.
Updating codexes doesn't fix them to work right out of the gate though.
GW has historically FAQd new editions on launch to make the codexes work, and assuming they won't so that and instead sell the updates ignores what is a more realistic occurance: that we'll see FAQs by the time the month is out.
Oh and IF updated codexes were coming we'd heard about it by now.
Devil wrote: Eldrad (67%fortune) then rolling Sanctuary (+1inv)
5xSpirit Seers (looking for you invisibility) or Farseer
Beastpack star
we are looking to deal with possible 3+inv rerollable unit that you can hit on snapshots? nice..
I'm hoping that casting powers proves to be a difficult and dangerous process, because everything I've heard about it so far sounds A-1 Crazy.
That's because a bunch of people are basing it off assumption of rules, are getting the rules wrong, or just plain assuming best case scenarios. I'd say just wait out the next 48 hours and then read your book. I know GW told my local retailers at least they could sell as of noon on friday.
I hope you're right. So far, however, everything that is known is not exactly sounding that good. Since seeing the Malefic and Sanctic powers, I have a very bad feeling that the game is about to become a summoning race to see who can put more "additional points" on the table to win the game. The days of both players having 1850 points are over. In some cases, players will now be able to summon upwards of 600 to 1,000 point more of models on the table during a battle. This is definately jump the shark moment for 40k if this ends up the case.
I have a sinking suspicion that there are going to be A LOT of people very disappointed when they get their hands on the new rulebook this weekend. This is why I am going to wait a few months and watch the feedback. Nothing at all in this has impressed me as it seems, once again, to be nothing more than a "we added new rules to sell more models" release.
A dakkafex charging a Land Raider currently has about 20% chance of exploding it, and generally will do 1.5 Hull points. Now the chance to explode drops to 7.5%. So, it will take 3 Carnifexes charging a Land Raider to have a reasonable chance to destroy it.
But why should a dakkafex be able to easily destroy a (250 point) AV14 tank? Really, a dakkafex loadout is for shooting, not close combat (that's just a bit of an added bonus). You want carnifexes that smash through AV14, you have to sacrifice the shooting and go for the smashy bits. I truly don't see any problem here. That would be like me complaining that Grav-Centurians can't reliably kill a Ork boyz mob. Right tools for the job and all that.
Smashy bits? Crushing Claws and Scything Talons on the charge is 5 attacks. Let's say 3 hit. Likely 3 pens, very good chance of nothing important happening to the AV14 tank.
And then you wonder how you let a model that moves 6" a turn and can't fire get into assault with a vehicle that can move at least 6" a turn (more if it feels like being less effective while shooting) and laugh as you shoot the crap out of the Carnifex.
Devil wrote: Eldrad (67%fortune) then rolling Sanctuary (+1inv)
5xSpirit Seers (looking for you invisibility) or Farseer
Beastpack star
we are looking to deal with possible 3+inv rerollable unit that you can hit on snapshots? nice..
I'm hoping that casting powers proves to be a difficult and dangerous process, because everything I've heard about it so far sounds A-1 Crazy.
That's because a bunch of people are basing it off assumption of rules, are getting the rules wrong, or just plain assuming best case scenarios. I'd say just wait out the next 48 hours and then read your book. I know GW told my local retailers at least they could sell as of noon on friday.
Actually a lot of people are hoping the same people who wrote 2++ rerollables only a year ago didn't drop that ball again. No body is assuming anything with regard to Invisibility. That power and the blessings portion for the psychic phase have been leaked and confirmed with images.
Invisibility is a silly good power and this edition very much will hinge on how denial of blessings works. Eldar have no issue generating 12+ WC's a turn and with ghost helms could care less about perils meaning they will get that power off if dispelling wasn't handled well.
Pure speculation but I am hoping it is throw any number of dice hoping for any 6 that will cancel it. If you need to match the spells WC cost or what the caster rolled it will be WAY too unreliable of a mechanic for armies with no or low psycher count. Which is poor design.
Magc8Ball wrote: The question is whether we will see an FAQ specifying that certain psykers have access to the different powers or not. Just because the reference card says Chaos has divination, that doesn't override the sorceror's codex entry that specifies what tables they may roll on.
You're getting a BRAND NEW EDITION and you're already asking for FAQ's????
Isn't that the point of this whole thing?
We'll need FAQs to bring the books in line with the new ruleset. Just the psychic powers alone requires a massive bit of FAQing of the books.
You missed the point.... GW needs monies... Time to update all the codexes again and make us all buy them again.... A couple of text corrections, a new 7th edition look-and-feel cover and $60, bingo - you have all your corrections.
Updating codexes doesn't fix them to work right out of the gate though.
GW has historically FAQd new editions on launch to make the codexes work, and assuming they won't so that and instead sell the updates ignores what is a more realistic occurance: that we'll see FAQs by the time the month is out.
Oh and IF updated codexes were coming we'd heard about it by now.
I was being snarky about GW. However, in truth, the first codex out after the 7th (which I believe is Orks) will tell us if they intend to update all of them. If the next codex contains a new cover format similar to the 7th edition rule book, then we can all bet our bottom dollar ALL of the codexes are going to go through an update. And why not, some of them are almost a year old, and some two years. We are on the new GW release cycle now of disposing of the inexpensive rule books and codexes every two years.
Njal Stormpuppy wrote: Someone please let me know, have the new rules actually been branded as 7ed by gw yet?
Why is this still so much of a debate? The early bad internet rumors? Resistance to change? Right in the introduction in WD issue 15 page 16 "25 May sees the launch of a new edition of".
What are you looking for, 6th edition revised? Come on man!
A dakkafex charging a Land Raider currently has about 20% chance of exploding it, and generally will do 1.5 Hull points. Now the chance to explode drops to 7.5%. So, it will take 3 Carnifexes charging a Land Raider to have a reasonable chance to destroy it.
But why should a dakkafex be able to easily destroy a (250 point) AV14 tank? Really, a dakkafex loadout is for shooting, not close combat (that's just a bit of an added bonus). You want carnifexes that smash through AV14, you have to sacrifice the shooting and go for the smashy bits. I truly don't see any problem here. That would be like me complaining that Grav-Centurians can't reliably kill a Ork boyz mob. Right tools for the job and all that.
Smashy bits? Crushing Claws and Scything Talons on the charge is 5 attacks. Let's say 3 hit. Likely 3 pens, very good chance of nothing important happening to the AV14 tank.
And then you wonder how you let a model that moves 6" a turn and can't fire get into assault with a vehicle that can move at least 6" a turn (more if it feels like being less effective while shooting) and laugh as you shoot the crap out of the Carnifex.
And people are still surprised that they are nudging you in the direction of that expensive new model with haywire missiles?
Of course this also ignores that fact that the land raider... THE epitome of tanks shouldn't get smashed in one go to begin with. Seriously, you would think LR's were an awesome investment to begin with, which they aren't. I see no problem with a 120pt MC struggling to catch an kill a tank described as being almost unkillable.
A dakkafex charging a Land Raider currently has about 20% chance of exploding it, and generally will do 1.5 Hull points. Now the chance to explode drops to 7.5%. So, it will take 3 Carnifexes charging a Land Raider to have a reasonable chance to destroy it.
But why should a dakkafex be able to easily destroy a (250 point) AV14 tank? Really, a dakkafex loadout is for shooting, not close combat (that's just a bit of an added bonus). You want carnifexes that smash through AV14, you have to sacrifice the shooting and go for the smashy bits. I truly don't see any problem here. That would be like me complaining that Grav-Centurians can't reliably kill a Ork boyz mob. Right tools for the job and all that.
Smashy bits? Crushing Claws and Scything Talons on the charge is 5 attacks. Let's say 3 hit. Likely 3 pens, very good chance of nothing important happening to the AV14 tank.
And then you wonder how you let a model that moves 6" a turn and can't fire get into assault with a vehicle that can move at least 6" a turn (more if it feels like being less effective while shooting) and laugh as you shoot the crap out of the Carnifex.
And people are still surprised that they are nudging you in the direction of that expensive new model with haywire missiles?
Of course this also ignores that fact that the land raider... THE epitome of tanks shouldn't get smashed in one go to begin with. Seriously, you would think LR's were an awesome investment to begin with, which they aren't. I see no problem with a 120pt MC struggling to catch an kill a tank described as being almost unkillable.
Just add some Eldar into your Tyranid list with some Lances. Problem solved. Because UNBOUND.
So lets say eldar summon bloodletters. Wont they have to stay 12" away from the daemons due to them not being allies? If that is the case I can see this being a huge problem for non CSM/Daemon players wanting in on the summon action.
Sleep debt wrote: So lets say eldar summon bloodletters. Wont they have to stay 12" away from the daemons due to them not being allies? If that is the case I can see this being a huge problem for non CSM/Daemon players wanting in on the summon action.
Nah. The 12inch deployment only applys with deployment before the game. For the rest of the game they are desperate allies.
Sleep debt wrote: So lets say eldar summon bloodletters. Wont they have to stay 12" away from the daemons due to them not being allies? If that is the case I can see this being a huge problem for non CSM/Daemon players wanting in on the summon action.
From what I've heard, that 12" is only in the deployment phase. After that it moves to the 6" "One Eye Open" rule as per Desperate Allies.
Sleep debt wrote: So lets say eldar summon bloodletters. Wont they have to stay 12" away from the daemons due to them not being allies? If that is the case I can see this being a huge problem for non CSM/Daemon players wanting in on the summon action.
Nah. The 12inch deployment only applys with deployment before the game. For the rest of the game they are desperate allies.
Or so I have been told!
I looking more into they are " come the apoc" not desperate per the just released allies matrix. Guess we'll know Friday
As someone who has been regularly fielding 4 Rhino-chassis vehicles against TMCs, I can't help but smirk when MC players moan about the increased difficulty of destroying a Vehicle in 7th.
Remember that we have to remove those T6 4-6 Wounds one by one, a process usually hampered by various kinds of saves normal Vehicles often don't get. And I can't see how 1 Carnifex being unable to reliably blow up a LR with one round of CC is unfair, given the points costs involved.
Anyway, I'm rather excited by most of the news. Probably because many of the things people complain about won't affect me, one way or another.
...which is exactly why them not having access to anything except for Daemonology and Force powers (when they don't even have Force weapons) is a bit of a strange design choice.
SarisKhan wrote: As someone who has been regularly fielding 4 Rhino-chassis vehicles against TMCs, I can't help but smirk when MC players moan about the increased difficulty of destroying a Vehicle in 7th.
Rhino chassis die like they did before - to being hull pointed. So keep smirking.
Remember that we have to remove those T6 4-6 Wounds one by one, a process usually hampered by various kinds of saves normal Vehicles often don't get. And I can't see how 1 Carnifex being unable to reliably blow up a LR with one round of CC is unfair, given the points costs involved.
You mean hampered by armor saves because you're shooting small arms at them? I'm soo sorry for you. And 1 Carnifex, tooled for CC, doesn't pop a Land Raider - a vehicle with lascannons and transport capacity, hence the point disparity - reliably. Even in 6th it's not reliable to kill it in one round. But it's going from "Sure, it has happened but nothing to count on." to "This one time, at Fex camp...".
I mean - I'll deal with it. Somehow. Likely by trying to ignore the AV14 vehicles until I can swarm and surround them with gants and hull point them to death to kill everything inside. I'm sure that'll be more fun for my opponent than me just killing his transport and letting his dudemen out.
Demonology seems fine to me fluff wise, because they are only demons if you model them as such. Who says my Xenos inquisitor isn't actually using his mind to teleport a squad of squat allies to the battle from orbit (lesser demon stats)? Or my Space Marine librian isn't conjuring a terrifying vision of a legendary chapter hero (herald)? Or my Primaris Psyker merely telepathically sends coordinates for a large battle robot to drop from an orbiting landing craft (greater demon)?
A dakkafex charging a Land Raider currently has about 20% chance of exploding it, and generally will do 1.5 Hull points. Now the chance to explode drops to 7.5%. So, it will take 3 Carnifexes charging a Land Raider to have a reasonable chance to destroy it.
But why should a dakkafex be able to easily destroy a (250 point) AV14 tank? Really, a dakkafex loadout is for shooting, not close combat (that's just a bit of an added bonus). You want carnifexes that smash through AV14, you have to sacrifice the shooting and go for the smashy bits. I truly don't see any problem here. That would be like me complaining that Grav-Centurians can't reliably kill a Ork boyz mob. Right tools for the job and all that.
So here is the deal. A carnifex is the single most anti-tank assault that Tyranids have. Right now the Rupture Cannon (5.5% explodes at 48") or Zoenthrope (11.3% Explodes at 18") are the best ranged attack. Now a close combat Carnifex is worthless at pretty much everything except popping tanks, and it only explodes a Land Raider 24.0% of the time. Contrast that to a Dakkafex that is highly useful throughout the rest of the game, and still explodes a Land Raider 20.3% of the time. It actually gets worse if you are talking a squad of 2 CC fexes (48.1%) vs 2 Dakkafexes (40.7%), and even worse 3 CC fexes (72.2%) vs 3 Dakkafexes (61.1)
Here is how it is going to change with the new pen table
Now, A carnifex despite being the absolute best tyranid option for popping a land raider doesn't do it very well. It is the best in the entire codex, yet it still struggles mightily to do so. 2 CC fexes are 240 points. 2 Dakkafexes are 300 points. And remember they move 6" and can't deep strike or outflank.
Do I think the most optimized thing in the codex should be able to kill a model of roughly equivalent points? Yes, yes I do.
Do I think the game is at its best when one army doesn't have any way to expect to cause damage to the other army? No, no I don't.
I don't know, maybe GW plans to give MC's vs vehicle AP:1 and Armorbane, but I wouldn't expect it. So I imagine Land Raiders and Monoliths will become effectively unkillable to Tyranids.
Samurai_Eduh wrote: Demonology seems fine to me fluff wise, because they are only demons if you model them as such. Who says my Xenos inquisitor isn't actually using his mind to teleport a squad of squat allies to the battle from orbit (lesser demon stats)? Or my Space Marine librian isn't conjuring a terrifying vision of a legendary chapter hero (herald)? Or my Primaris Psyker merely telepathically sends coordinates for a large battle robot to drop from an orbiting landing craft (greater demon)?
Yes!! My creativity is Unbound!
I'm going to have my psykers summon wads of 20 dolla bills (lesser demon stats?) and a couple of crumpled up 50s (Greater demon?).
The only saving grace is that invisibility is WC 2, so basically only demons and eldar and GK's have access to warp charge farms making the power less of a nuisance to get off. But even if that's the only power cast each turn it is unhinged. Just think of all the insane units this makes almost unkillable.
I expect since they have made force weapon activation a blessing that applies to an entire unit, GK's will become a Brotherhood of Psychers and lose their ability to warp charge farm.
The only saving grace is that invisibility is WC 2, so basically only demons and eldar and GK's have access to warp charge farms making the power less of a nuisance to get off. But even if that's the only power cast each turn it is unhinged. Just think of all the insane units this makes almost unkillable.
I expect since they have made force weapon activation a blessing that applies to an entire unit, GK's will become a Brotherhood of Psychers and lose their ability to warp charge farm.
Brotherhood counts in the overall Psyker level i thought? Should still generate 1 dice for mastery level 1?
SarisKhan wrote: As someone who has been regularly fielding 4 Rhino-chassis vehicles against TMCs, I can't help but smirk when MC players moan about the increased difficulty of destroying a Vehicle in 7th.
Rhino chassis die like they did before - to being hull pointed. So keep smirking.
Yes, they do and will. But I won't see that single lucky penetration roll blowing it up outright anymore, it's happened far too many times before. That change is sufficient for me.
SarisKhan wrote: Remember that we have to remove those T6 4-6 Wounds one by one, a process usually hampered by various kinds of saves normal Vehicles often don't get. And I can't see how 1 Carnifex being unable to reliably blow up a LR with one round of CC is unfair, given the points costs involved.
You mean hampered by armor saves because you're shooting small arms at them? I'm soo sorry for you. And 1 Carnifex, tooled for CC, doesn't pop a Land Raider - a vehicle with lascannons and transport capacity, hence the point disparity - reliably. Even in 6th it's not reliable to kill it in one round. But it's going from "Sure, it has happened but nothing to count on." to "This one time, at Fex camp...".
Various saves ≠Armour Saves. Obviously, 3+ is bad when you shoot Autocannons at it. However, what I actually meant is the fairly frequent: "Oh, you're shooting 6 Lascannons at my Carnifexes? Too bad they've got a 3+ Cover (Venomthrope) and FnP (Catalyst). Good luck!"
The only saving grace is that invisibility is WC 2, so basically only demons and eldar and GK's have access to warp charge farms making the power less of a nuisance to get off. But even if that's the only power cast each turn it is unhinged. Just think of all the insane units this makes almost unkillable.
I expect since they have made force weapon activation a blessing that applies to an entire unit, GK's will become a Brotherhood of Psychers and lose their ability to warp charge farm.
Psychic pilots on vehicles may give warp charges. Ditto dreadnaugjts. Dreadknights definitely do. Henchmen psykers do too. Gk could get 10 warp charges plus the d6 at 1500 points pretty easily.
A dakkafex charging a Land Raider currently has about 20% chance of exploding it, and generally will do 1.5 Hull points. Now the chance to explode drops to 7.5%. So, it will take 3 Carnifexes charging a Land Raider to have a reasonable chance to destroy it.
But why should a dakkafex be able to easily destroy a (250 point) AV14 tank? Really, a dakkafex loadout is for shooting, not close combat (that's just a bit of an added bonus). You want carnifexes that smash through AV14, you have to sacrifice the shooting and go for the smashy bits. I truly don't see any problem here. That would be like me complaining that Grav-Centurians can't reliably kill a Ork boyz mob. Right tools for the job and all that.
Smashy bits? Crushing Claws and Scything Talons on the charge is 5 attacks. Let's say 3 hit. Likely 3 pens, very good chance of nothing important happening to the AV14 tank.
And then you wonder how you let a model that moves 6" a turn and can't fire get into assault with a vehicle that can move at least 6" a turn (more if it feels like being less effective while shooting) and laugh as you shoot the crap out of the Carnifex.
And people are still surprised that they are nudging you in the direction of that expensive new model with haywire missiles?
It will take 9 Haywire missiles to kill and Land Raider which means 3 crones shooting at a land raider for 2 turns over which they can only vector strike or flame once. The expensive new models are great at dealing with light mech (rhinos, Chimeras, etc) But against heavy mech (Land Raiders, Monlithes) they do worse than a marine tac squad in a drop pod.
I wonder what 2hp on a pen does to those Carnifex numbers. I am going to take it for what it is and at least try a couple of crushing claw/adrenal carnifexes just for giggles. Depending on the missions, the endless swarm is appealing more and more to me. Throw everything i can at my opponent, hopefully stop them/push them back. Respawns get on objectives as they come back on. (assuming the eternal war missions are largely the same)
I wonder what 2hp on a pen does to those Carnifex numbers. I am going to take it for what it is and at least try a couple of crushing claw/adrenal carnifexes just for giggles. Depending on the missions, the endless swarm is appealing more and more to me. Throw everything i can at my opponent, hopefully stop them/push them back. Respawns get on objectives as they come back on. (assuming the eternal war missions are largely the same)
Hope that 2hp on pen applies to Hammer of Wrath. At least Carnifexes can attempt to ram a Land Raider to death.
SarisKhan wrote: Various saves ≠Armour Saves. Obviously, 3+ is bad when you shoot Autocannons at it. However, what I actually meant is the fairly frequent: "Oh, you're shooting 6 Lascannons at my Carnifexes? Too bad they've got a 3+ Cover (Venomthrope) and FnP (Catalyst). Good luck!"
6 Lascannons and the Venom isn't dead yet? Cool story. And that's 300 (2 Dakkafexes) + 200 (ish... the psyker for FNP) + 45 (Venomthrope) points. Sooo.... okay? And it can't be that frequent - Catalyst is only a 1/6 chance.
Soooo.... Dark Eldar Venoms and Raiders... Don't have to jink because they get invuln (though they have the option to jink for a better save), and they don't explode as much. Have fun trying to shoot down a Venom rush when they're jinking at 3+. This is pretty huge for them IMO.
CC attacks against vehicles strip 1hp per glance and 2hp per pen.
What? Vehicles were laughably easy to kill in close combat already, so hey, lets make it even easier. Or did they change to-hit rolls at all?
What this does is make vehicles wreck from CC, not explode. Transports aren't quite as deadly to their occupants now. Dark Eldar stuff can move flat-out up close and personal, taking the 3+ jink, maybe get wrecked in CC, then it's their turn and the fully intact unit inside gets to go.
As someone who plays with drop pods, I like the sound of this. I don’t think it’s balanced, but I’ll take it.
Top of turn one: Sternguard pods down, shoots some stuff up.
Bottom of turn one: Take return fire. Make rude gestures at any nearby assault units.
Top of turn two: Shoot more stuff.
Bottom of two: Get torn apart.
SarisKhan wrote: As someone who has been regularly fielding 4 Rhino-chassis vehicles against TMCs, I can't help but smirk when MC players moan about the increased difficulty of destroying a Vehicle in 7th.
the issue isn't with rhinos and such, it is with AV13/14, that is where Nids (and demons?) have big problems.
Remember that we have to remove those T6 4-6 Wounds one by one, a process usually hampered by various kinds of saves normal Vehicles often don't get.
yes, but those same MCs can be wounded by S3 weapons, and the Nid ones have no invuln saves, only a 3+ armor save, and can be one-shotted by any ID weapon in the game.
And I can't see how 1 Carnifex being unable to reliably blow up a LR with one round of CC is unfair, given the points costs involved.
Because MCs are the *only* way we have to take out AV13/14 vehicles, and first we have to move across the board, then still catch them... and now it will take several turns for an MC to take out a Land raider....*after* it has spent 2-3 turns trying to catch it.
And this assumes you take a CC fex, which is a *bad* choice to begin with. If you take a Devilfex, you may never catch the vehicle since you will be shooting instead of running.
Yes, Nids can use a FMC, but those are expensive, and tend to die pretty fast once they land. And they will *still* take several turns to deal with the Land Raider. (Not to mention whatever it is carrying)
zammerak wrote: As someone who runs nob bikers, I don't like the no charging first turn thing. If da ladz wanna krump, let um krump!
I still putting salt on this one... if not, well my all drop pod list just got even better, and I'm more than willing to scout forward and fire my bikes on turn 1.... this just seems too counterintuitive for even Gdub.... think of the havoc the Wolf Scouts with meltas might raise!
SarisKhan wrote: As someone who has been regularly fielding 4 Rhino-chassis vehicles against TMCs, I can't help but smirk when MC players moan about the increased difficulty of destroying a Vehicle in 7th.
the issue isn't with rhinos and such, it is with AV13/14, that is where Nids (and demons?) have big problems.
Remember that we have to remove those T6 4-6 Wounds one by one, a process usually hampered by various kinds of saves normal Vehicles often don't get.
yes, but those same MCs can be wounded by S3 weapons, and the Nid ones have no invuln saves, only a 3+ armor save, and can be one-shotted by any ID weapon in the game.
And I can't see how 1 Carnifex being unable to reliably blow up a LR with one round of CC is unfair, given the points costs involved.
Because MCs are the *only* way we have to take out AV13/14 vehicles, and first we have to move across the board, then still catch them... and now it will take several turns for an MC to take out a Land raider....*after* it has spent 2-3 turns trying to catch it.
And this assumes you take a CC fex, which is a *bad* choice to begin with. If you take a Devilfex, you may never catch the vehicle since you will be shooting instead of running.
Yes, Nids can use a FMC, but those are expensive, and tend to die pretty fast once they land. And they will *still* take several turns to deal with the Land Raider. (Not to mention whatever it is carrying)
You're wasting your breath, I tried to make most of these arguments, but from a Daemon perspective and it didn't help. People are happy that units that kill their stuff get nerfed. They really don't care about balance.
zammerak wrote: As someone who runs nob bikers, I don't like the no charging first turn thing. If da ladz wanna krump, let um krump!
I’m OK with no 1st turn charge is you scout/infiltrate/use other deployment shenanigans. I think all of that was covered in 6th. But if someone wants to drop/scout/turboboost into my face first turn, I’d like to option to stab them.
...which is exactly why them not having access to anything except for Daemonology and Force powers (when they don't even have Force weapons) is a bit of a strange design choice.
unless you account for the fact that GW knows whats in the unreleased ork codex, and that force weapons are somthing that the orks desparatly need added to their codex.
they also likely have their own trees as do other codexes, so likely will make more sense later
Can someone explain to me how Carnifexs can only use 1 Hammer of Wrath attacks? I though the codex says is has D3 attacks so why are people saying it can only have one? Has the Tyranid FAQ came in and changed this rule?
Almost all Nid MCs need to Smash Attack to even have a chance of hurting a Land Raider.
Assuming the land Raider moved, that is a 3+ to hit, and a 4+ to glance. Now lets say the earlier rumor is correct, and Smash Attack allows reroll Pens, and Pens remove 2HP.
Even with that, on average, an MC will remove .6666 HP per turn. So it will take *6 turns* for an MC to Smash Attack a Land Raider to death. And that is *after* it has run across the table and finally caught the thing.
There is one possible caveat to this.... if you can still add attacks from charging and multiple weapons, it will make it a small bit better.
Not to say that particular rumour is wrong, but currently pens count as two wounds for combat resolution, there is a chance that it may have got lost in translation, so to speak.
Not saying that is the case, but in all the excitement things could get overlooked/misunderstood.
Almost all Nid MCs need to Smash Attack to even have a chance of hurting a Land Raider.
Assuming the land Raider moved, that is a 3+ to hit, and a 4+ to glance. Now lets say the earlier rumor is correct, and Smash Attack allows reroll Pens, and Pens remove 2HP.
Even with that, on average, an MC will remove .6666 HP per turn. So it will take *6 turns* for an MC to Smash Attack a Land Raider to death. And that is *after* it has run across the table and finally caught the thing.
There is one possible caveat to this.... if you can still add attacks from charging and multiple weapons, it will make it a small bit better.
But were Smash Attacks overpowered before..??
I think they were more annoyed at Smash Attacks giving Instant Death(Str10) on weaker characters. 4 Smash attacks on a precious Chapter Master is too much apparently.
azreal13 wrote: Not to say that particular rumour is wrong, but currently pens count as two wounds for combat resolution, there is a chance that it may have got lost in translation, so to speak.
Not saying that is the case, but in all the excitement things could get overlooked/misunderstood.
I have found when it comes to rumors and first reports, it's always better to be pessimistic. Then instead of dissappointment, you are pleasantly surprised.
SarisKhan wrote: Various saves ≠Armour Saves. Obviously, 3+ is bad when you shoot Autocannons at it. However, what I actually meant is the fairly frequent: "Oh, you're shooting 6 Lascannons at my Carnifexes? Too bad they've got a 3+ Cover (Venomthrope) and FnP (Catalyst). Good luck!"
6 Lascannons and the Venom isn't dead yet? Cool story. And that's 300 (2 Dakkafexes) + 200 (ish... the psyker for FNP) + 45 (Venomthrope) points. Sooo.... okay? And it can't be that frequent - Catalyst is only a 1/6 chance.
You do realise I have to see the Venomthrope to kill it? Most of the time it sits behind some hill or dozens of other models, including things like Exocrine or Tervigon.
Catalyst isn't that difficult to get when you have several Psyker TMCs. Also, ever heard of using hyperbole to prove a point?
Anyway, do you want a straight example? Two Predators Annihilators will on average deal 3.7 Wounds to an exposed Carnifex. So that's 280 dedicated pts. killing, let's say 150 pts. when a Dakkafex. Now, how often is that Carnifex completely in the open without some sort of save to boost it's survivability? Not that often.
Almost all Nid MCs need to Smash Attack to even have a chance of hurting a Land Raider.
Assuming the land Raider moved, that is a 3+ to hit, and a 4+ to glance. Now lets say the earlier rumor is correct, and Smash Attack allows reroll Pens, and Pens remove 2HP.
Even with that, on average, an MC will remove .6666 HP per turn. So it will take *6 turns* for an MC to Smash Attack a Land Raider to death. And that is *after* it has run across the table and finally caught the thing.
There is one possible caveat to this.... if you can still add attacks from charging and multiple weapons, it will make it a small bit better.
But were Smash Attacks overpowered before..??
There is another solution to AV14 in our codex - Crushing Claws. +1S, AP2, Armourbane. Either on a brood of scytal fexes, or haruspex models.
By the look of the Endurance psychic card, there is a chance that Feel No Pain is back to a 4+ roll, as well -- that along with the healing properties of eating bad guys could aid haruspexes survivability.
All is not lost, not yet.
Also this: This image from monday shows that you CAN include as many detachments in an army as you have models, and points for and still be battle forged. Tyranids can spam hive tyrants all day if that's what gets the job done, or just take 2 HQ, 4 Troops, and load up on 6 heavy slots....The possibilities are endless.
The game has been expanding rapidly since 6th came out - it is time to unleash the beast, throw caution to the wind, and let fly the dogs of war!
Also, it seems that Wraithknights just got even better. No range penalty on charging through cover and 2 hull points on a pen in CC? Awesome for strength 10. Smash only 1 attack is actually a buff for the knight. Want to stay locked in combat? Just Smash.
WrentheFaceless wrote: So has it been stated how perils work in relation to multiple dice? Say you roll 3 do you roll perils twice or just once?
White Dwarf says a perils test is on 2 or more 6's. which leads me to believe that it's just 1 Peril's check regardless of the number of Boxcars you throw.
One thought that did occur to me, IA1 Armoured Battlegroup lists are likely to be a thing people see where FW isn't an issue. While the damage chart changes won't affect lighter vehicles too much, armies of scoring AV14 that don't have too many multishot HP-removal-spam weapons may be very capable indeed, so long as they keep everything out of assault range.
SarisKhan wrote: You do realise I have to see the Venomthrope to kill it? Most of the time it sits behind some hill or dozens of other models, including things like Exocrine or Tervigon.
You don't always have to see it - Barrage is a thing.
Catalyst isn't that difficult to get when you have several Psyker TMCs. Also, ever heard of using hyperbole to prove a point?
Yes, I've heard it's a poor strategy to try and get your point across.
Anyway, do you want a straight example? Two Predators Annihilators will on average deal 3.7 Wounds to an exposed Carnifex. So that's 280 dedicated pts. killing, let's say 150 pts. when a Dakkafex. Now, how often is that Carnifex completely in the open without some sort of save to boost it's survivability? Not that often.
280 points that lost literally nothing to kill a 150 point unit. My heart aches. Remember, it's literally impossible for that 150 point unit to hurt those Predators outside of CC (assuming it didn't take the HVC which... well, no one does). So no, you're not helping your case at all.
Tell you what - when you can lose a tank solely to lasgun fire, then you can complain about CC deaths to TMCs. Because I lose at least one TMC to small arms fire every game.
WrentheFaceless wrote: So has it been stated how perils work in relation to multiple dice? Say you roll 3 do you roll perils twice or just once?
White Dwarf says a perils test is on 2 or more 6's. which leads me to believe that it's just 1 Peril's check regardless of the number of Boxcars you throw.
Just got the book, quite interesting small changes, annoyed that terrify no longer removes fearless though. I have wrote a few things I have noticed if anyone wants to read
Spoiler:
So got the book. Will jot down the things I notice
There is now a start of turn which is specfically before movement
Mastery level governs how many spells you can attempt to cast per psyhic phase as well as how many spells you generate. Psykers that take all their spells from one table know the sig spell. So lvl 1';s will know the sig and another random spell but you can only cast 1.
Psykers can know the same spells (which is a big difference form fantasy)
Perils table is pretty much take a wound with no saves of any kind, plus another feature, the rumours are true for these (on 1 you do a ld test, pass you take a wound, fail removed from play).
Something chew just asked, it is indeed correct IC's cannot join units that contain MCs or vehicles....
snap shots are bs1 still
Overwatch is still as it is now, no test to do it, no penatly for doing it
Charging through terrain is -2 to distance rolled and still int1
Multi assault. Still the same up to this point
A charging model is not permitted to move into base contact with a model in a secondary target, unless it cannot move into base contat with a unegaged model in primary target (think thats different?)
The wording for jet pack thrust move is still the same, in that it describes the jet pack unit. Cannot find anything to explain what a jet pack unit is....
FMC's cannot charge is they have changed flight mode that turn.
swooping is 12 to 24 still, 90degree turn before it moves, still run 2d6, grounding is still on a 1 or 2 and suffering a wound has to test end of phase but if grounded can charge.
Flyers now, if immobilsed crash and burn on a 1 or 2,
Ignoring the rest of the vehicle section for now (yes super heavies are in)
Excess wounds are indeed transferred to the unit from challenges
Ignoring terrain for now
Deployements are still the same
'Night fighting is just everyone has stealth
FMCS, zooming flyers or units in them are not scoring, claimed buildings are SCORING LOL With reserves, I am struggling to find how much you can reserve, it doesnt actually say!
force weapons are now acitvated in the psyhic phase, one test for the unit
Dedicated transports can now infiltrate
IC's cannot infiltate with a unit unless he has infiltrate as well
Jink is 4+ but can only fire snap shots until end of their next turn
You need a 6 to hit for precision shot,
ignores cover is no cover saves against wounds pens or glances
power weapons are the same
Psyhic powers
Iron arm doesnt give EW anymore,
enfeeble is minus 1 str and toughness treats all terrain as difficult
Endurance is warp charge 2, targets friendly unit, they gain EW, FNP 4+ and relentless wow
rest are pretty much the same, the numbers have changed though (i.e endurance is now 5)
Prescience is wc2 now, 12inch range gives re roll to hit still
Foreboding is the same
Forewarning is the same
perfect timing is the same
Pre cog is the same
Misfortune, is different, all attacks that target that unit have the rending special rule... wow
Scriers gaze is you can now re roll the reserves roll outflank and mysterious objective
Daemonology we all know from leaks
santic no 6 is vortex of doom, str d small blast
pyro is still crap
Telekinesis, no gate....
replaced with levitation
targets the psyker he may move 12inches... they then cannot charge
psyhic malestrom is no 6, wc3, str 10 ap1 large blast barrage
Telepathy
Dominate the same
mental fort, the same
terrify, -1 ld, treats all units as having fear, and must take moral check end of phase, no longer removes fearless
Shourding, new power, gives pskyer and all units within 6 shrouded
Invis, all units targetting the unit with it cast on can only snap shot at it
Hallicunation, the same?
Vaktathi wrote: One thought that did occur to me, IA1 Armoured Battlegroup lists are likely to be a thing people see where FW isn't an issue. While the damage chart changes won't affect lighter vehicles too much, armies of scoring AV14 that don't have too many multishot HP-removal-spam weapons may be very capable indeed, so long as they keep everything out of assault range.
I now love the fact I don't need to take anything without an AV value and can still claim objectives. Soldiers and Chimeras are too squishy, roll out the Russes.
MarkyMark wrote: Just got the book, quite interesting small changes, annoyed that terrify no longer removes fearless though. I have wrote a few things I have noticed if anyone wants to read
Spoiler:
So got the book. Will jot down the things I notice
There is now a start of turn which is specfically before movement
Mastery level governs how many spells you can attempt to cast per psyhic phase as well as how many spells you generate. Psykers that take all their spells from one table know the sig spell. So lvl 1';s will know the sig and another random spell but you can only cast 1.
Psykers can know the same spells (which is a big difference form fantasy)
Perils table is pretty much take a wound with no saves of any kind, plus another feature, the rumours are true for these (on 1 you do a ld test, pass you take a wound, fail removed from play).
Something chew just asked, it is indeed correct IC's cannot join units that contain MCs or vehicles....
snap shots are bs1 still
Overwatch is still as it is now, no test to do it, no penatly for doing it
Charging through terrain is -2 to distance rolled and still int1
Multi assault. Still the same up to this point
A charging model is not permitted to move into base contact with a model in a secondary target, unless it cannot move into base contat with a unegaged model in primary target (think thats different?)
The wording for jet pack thrust move is still the same, in that it describes the jet pack unit. Cannot find anything to explain what a jet pack unit is....
FMC's cannot charge is they have changed flight mode that turn.
swooping is 12 to 24 still, 90degree turn before it moves, still run 2d6, grounding is still on a 1 or 2 and suffering a wound has to test end of phase but if grounded can charge.
Flyers now, if immobilsed crash and burn on a 1 or 2,
Ignoring the rest of the vehicle section for now (yes super heavies are in)
Excess wounds are indeed transferred to the unit from challenges
Ignoring terrain for now
Deployements are still the same
'Night fighting is just everyone has stealth
FMCS, zooming flyers or units in them are not scoring, claimed buildings are SCORING LOL With reserves, I am struggling to find how much you can reserve, it doesnt actually say!
force weapons are now acitvated in the psyhic phase, one test for the unit
Dedicated transports can now infiltrate
IC's cannot infiltate with a unit unless he has infiltrate as well
Jink is 4+ but can only fire snap shots until end of their next turn
You need a 6 to hit for precision shot,
ignores cover is no cover saves against wounds pens or glances
power weapons are the same
Psyhic powers
Iron arm doesnt give EW anymore,
enfeeble is minus 1 str and toughness treats all terrain as difficult
Endurance is warp charge 2, targets friendly unit, they gain EW, FNP 4+ and relentless wow
rest are pretty much the same, the numbers have changed though (i.e endurance is now 5)
Prescience is wc2 now, 12inch range gives re roll to hit still
Foreboding is the same
Forewarning is the same
perfect timing is the same
Pre cog is the same
Misfortune, is different, all attacks that target that unit have the rending special rule... wow
Scriers gaze is you can now re roll the reserves roll outflank and mysterious objective
Daemonology we all know from leaks
santic no 6 is vortex of doom, str d small blast
pyro is still crap
Telekinesis, no gate....
replaced with levitation
targets the psyker he may move 12inches... they then cannot charge
psyhic malestrom is no 6, wc3, str 10 ap1 large blast barrage
Telepathy
Dominate the same
mental fort, the same
terrify, -1 ld, treats all units as having fear, and must take moral check end of phase, no longer removes fearless
Shourding, new power, gives pskyer and all units within 6 shrouded
Invis, all units targetting the unit with it cast on can only snap shot at it
Hallicunation, the same?
thanks for the infos! very interesting stuff - i can't wait to get my book and start making some lists!
1 Question - are FMC's NEVER scoring, or only when they're in Swoop mode? What about swarms? Thanks again!
MarkyMark wrote: Just got the book, quite interesting small changes, annoyed that terrify no longer removes fearless though. I have wrote a few things I have noticed if anyone wants to read
Spoiler:
So got the book. Will jot down the things I notice
There is now a start of turn which is specfically before movement
Mastery level governs how many spells you can attempt to cast per psyhic phase as well as how many spells you generate. Psykers that take all their spells from one table know the sig spell. So lvl 1';s will know the sig and another random spell but you can only cast 1.
Psykers can know the same spells (which is a big difference form fantasy)
Perils table is pretty much take a wound with no saves of any kind, plus another feature, the rumours are true for these (on 1 you do a ld test, pass you take a wound, fail removed from play).
Something chew just asked, it is indeed correct IC's cannot join units that contain MCs or vehicles....
snap shots are bs1 still
Overwatch is still as it is now, no test to do it, no penatly for doing it
Charging through terrain is -2 to distance rolled and still int1
Multi assault. Still the same up to this point
A charging model is not permitted to move into base contact with a model in a secondary target, unless it cannot move into base contat with a unegaged model in primary target (think thats different?)
The wording for jet pack thrust move is still the same, in that it describes the jet pack unit. Cannot find anything to explain what a jet pack unit is....
FMC's cannot charge is they have changed flight mode that turn.
swooping is 12 to 24 still, 90degree turn before it moves, still run 2d6, grounding is still on a 1 or 2 and suffering a wound has to test end of phase but if grounded can charge.
Flyers now, if immobilsed crash and burn on a 1 or 2,
Ignoring the rest of the vehicle section for now (yes super heavies are in)
Excess wounds are indeed transferred to the unit from challenges
Ignoring terrain for now
Deployements are still the same
'Night fighting is just everyone has stealth
FMCS, zooming flyers or units in them are not scoring, claimed buildings are SCORING LOL With reserves, I am struggling to find how much you can reserve, it doesnt actually say!
force weapons are now acitvated in the psyhic phase, one test for the unit
Dedicated transports can now infiltrate
IC's cannot infiltate with a unit unless he has infiltrate as well
Jink is 4+ but can only fire snap shots until end of their next turn
You need a 6 to hit for precision shot,
ignores cover is no cover saves against wounds pens or glances
power weapons are the same
Psyhic powers
Iron arm doesnt give EW anymore,
enfeeble is minus 1 str and toughness treats all terrain as difficult
Endurance is warp charge 2, targets friendly unit, they gain EW, FNP 4+ and relentless wow
rest are pretty much the same, the numbers have changed though (i.e endurance is now 5)
Prescience is wc2 now, 12inch range gives re roll to hit still
Foreboding is the same
Forewarning is the same
perfect timing is the same
Pre cog is the same
Misfortune, is different, all attacks that target that unit have the rending special rule... wow
Scriers gaze is you can now re roll the reserves roll outflank and mysterious objective
Daemonology we all know from leaks
santic no 6 is vortex of doom, str d small blast
pyro is still crap
Telekinesis, no gate....
replaced with levitation
targets the psyker he may move 12inches... they then cannot charge
psyhic malestrom is no 6, wc3, str 10 ap1 large blast barrage
Telepathy
Dominate the same
mental fort, the same
terrify, -1 ld, treats all units as having fear, and must take moral check end of phase, no longer removes fearless
Shourding, new power, gives pskyer and all units within 6 shrouded
Invis, all units targetting the unit with it cast on can only snap shot at it
Hallicunation, the same?
What are the rules for each alliance type?
What exactly does Destroyer weapons do now?
Are there any changes to GCs and Super-heavies?
Nothing about current books so far, ML4 just means you get 4 spells and can cast 4 spells in a phase. There is bonus to DTW as per the leaks (+1 for higher level, +1 for being a psyker etC)
There is another table, not looked at them yet to be honest
Is there ever a way for psyker's to generate warp charge points on a 3+, or is it always a 4+ regardless? Also to deny a power, how many successful deny the witch dice will i need to roll? (IE, just one stops a power flat, or 1 for each successful warp charge, etc.?)
Syphid wrote: Have the warlord trait tables changed?
These were posted earlier:
warlord traits are:
Skilled fighter:
1. the warlord has the counter attack special rule.
2. the warlord has the furious charge special rule.
3. the warlord hase the outflank special rule.
4. the warlord gains 1 victory point for each charactermodell he kills in a challenge.
5. the warlord has the feel no pain special rule.
6.the warlord has the fearless and it will not die special rule.
Skilled Leader:
1. all allied units within 12" can use the warlords LD.
2. all enemys within 12" of the warlord have to use the lowest LD.
3.the warlord and all friendly units within 12" of the warlord have the move through cover special rule.
4. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" add +1" on run and assault moves.
5. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the shooting phase.
6. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the assault phase.
Skilled Tactican:
1.as long as your warlord is alive you can discard 2 mission objectives per turn instead of 1.
2. one use only: declare at the end of one of your turns. if you declare the warlord trait your enemy has to discard one random mission objective of his.
3.obtain a additional mission objective at the start of your first turn.
4. when declaring mission objectives in your first turn you can select to discard up to all your mission objectives and draw new ones.
5.as long as your warlord is alive you can reroll the victory point result that you get for each mission objective archived.
6. for all tactical secured tactical mission objectives x (x is 1-6) you archive you gain a additional victory point.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Would I be right in saying that everyone's had their available psychic powers changed around a little bit... except for 'Nids who still get nothing?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Would I be right in saying that everyone's had their available psychic powers changed around a little bit... except for 'Nids who still get nothing?
I have yet to find who can take what!
Smash 1 attack?
Are dedicated transports for troops choices objective secured?
Something chew just asked, it is indeed correct IC's cannot join units that contain MCs or vehicles....
[/spoiler]
RIP O'vesa Star.
As a tau player I'm real happy about this! Hopefully others will stop giving tau players a bad name!
Only people who have to win with plastic toy soldiers, gave Tau a bad name. Win at all cost. Be interesting to see how many Tau toys will be on eBay in the upcoming weeks.
To deny the witch, you need to nullify all fo the warp charge points that were successfully harnessed by the pysker when he passed his test
So if I cast a power and roll 5 4+ you need to deny 5 times.
To make a deny the witch, select one of your units that was the target of the enemys psyhic power. You will then need to expand a number of warp charges, declare how many you will spend and remove them from your pool and roll them, apply any of the following
Additions are The target unit contains pysker (inc piliot brotherhood etc)
ML greater then the pysker manifesting the power
Adamanitum will
To deny the witch on a blessing, or something which doesnt target one of your units, it is a stright 6 needed, no modifers
SarisKhan wrote: You do realise I have to see the Venomthrope to kill it? Most of the time it sits behind some hill or dozens of other models, including things like Exocrine or Tervigon.
You don't always have to see it - Barrage is a thing.
Catalyst isn't that difficult to get when you have several Psyker TMCs. Also, ever heard of using hyperbole to prove a point?
Yes, I've heard it's a poor strategy to try and get your point across.
Anyway, do you want a straight example? Two Predators Annihilators will on average deal 3.7 Wounds to an exposed Carnifex. So that's 280 dedicated pts. killing, let's say 150 pts. when a Dakkafex. Now, how often is that Carnifex completely in the open without some sort of save to boost it's survivability? Not that often.
280 points that lost literally nothing to kill a 150 point unit. My heart aches. Remember, it's literally impossible for that 150 point unit to hurt those Predators outside of CC (assuming it didn't take the HVC which... well, no one does). So no, you're not helping your case at all.
Tell you what - when you can lose a tank solely to lasgun fire, then you can complain about CC deaths to TMCs. Because I lose at least one TMC to small arms fire every game.
I don't have Barrage. I play CSM, in case you haven't noticed. Without MoN and with a single Heldrake.
Good job ignoring the first sentence. And while I admit that hyperbole is less than perfect, it's not my fault many people fail to grasp the intention behind it. Instead, they focus solely on the exaggerated parts, like you did.
It isn't impossible to hurt those Predators outside of CC, side armour is 11 and rear armour is 10. My best friend, a Tyranid player, has proven numerous times he can kill the tanks with massed S5/S6 shooting just fine. And there are many other nasty things like Trygons, Exocrines and Flyrants to name a few.
Good job losing TMCs to small arms fire. Killing a Carnifex requires exactly 144 Lasgun shots or 108 Bolter shots assuming average rolls.
Anyway, I'm not malicious. I'm simply glad that my tanks won't feel as if made from cardboard anymore.
Just a note for everyone... When 6th was released, there was a chart in the Psychic Card deck saying who could take which Discipline (like in the leaks), nothing in the actual rulebook, and a chart in the WD.
I bet the chart for 7th will be in the WD, for people without the deck. FAQs may follow
MarkyMark wrote: To deny the witch, you need to nullify all fo the warp charge points that were successfully harnessed by the pysker when he passed his test
So if I cast a power and roll 5 4+ you need to deny 5 times.
To make a deny the witch, select one of your units that was the target of the enemys psyhic power. You will then need to expand a number of warp charges, declare how many you will spend and remove them from your pool and roll them, apply any of the following
Additions are
The target unit contains pysker (inc piliot brotherhood etc)
ML greater then the pysker manifesting the power
Adamanitum will
To deny the witch on a blessing, or something which doesnt target one of your units, it is a stright 6 needed, no modifers
Just one straight six for blessings, or more depending on warp charges/successes?
Something chew just asked, it is indeed correct IC's cannot join units that contain MCs or vehicles....
[/spoiler]
RIP O'vesa Star.
As a tau player I'm real happy about this! Hopefully others will stop giving tau players a bad name!
Only people who have to win with plastic toy soldiers, gave Tau a bad name. Win at all cost. Be interesting to see how many Tau toys will be on eBay in the upcoming weeks.
The sale of all these riptides will drive up the number of all riptide unbound armies!!! Is it better or worse????
MarkyMark wrote: To deny the witch, you need to nullify all fo the warp charge points that were successfully harnessed by the pysker when he passed his test
So if I cast a power and roll 5 4+ you need to deny 5 times.
To make a deny the witch, select one of your units that was the target of the enemys psyhic power. You will then need to expand a number of warp charges, declare how many you will spend and remove them from your pool and roll them, apply any of the following
Additions are
The target unit contains pysker (inc piliot brotherhood etc)
ML greater then the pysker manifesting the power
Adamanitum will
To deny the witch on a blessing, or something which doesnt target one of your units, it is a stright 6 needed, no modifers
Just one straight six for blessings, or more depending on warp charges/successes?
See the first line, a 6 for each warp charge he got a 4+ on,. so 5 4+'s you will need 5 6's
Brometheus wrote: Just a note for everyone... When 6th was released, there was a chart in the Psychic Card deck saying who could take which Discipline (like in the leaks), nothing in the actual rulebook, and a chart in the WD.
I bet the chart for 7th will be in the WD, for people without the deck. FAQs may follow
MarkyMark wrote: To deny the witch, you need to nullify all fo the warp charge points that were successfully harnessed by the pysker when he passed his test
So if I cast a power and roll 5 4+ you need to deny 5 times.
To make a deny the witch, select one of your units that was the target of the enemys psyhic power. You will then need to expand a number of warp charges, declare how many you will spend and remove them from your pool and roll them, apply any of the following
Additions are
The target unit contains pysker (inc piliot brotherhood etc)
ML greater then the pysker manifesting the power
Adamanitum will
To deny the witch on a blessing, or something which doesnt target one of your units, it is a stright 6 needed, no modifers
Very clear. Thanks. Looks like blessings will be super hard to stop (but at least there is a chance now).
H.B.M.C. wrote: Would I be right in saying that everyone's had their available psychic powers changed around a little bit... except for 'Nids who still get nothing?
I have yet to find who can take what!
Smash 1 attack?
Are dedicated transports for troops choices objective secured?
Something chew just asked, it is indeed correct IC's cannot join units that contain MCs or vehicles....
[/spoiler]
RIP O'vesa Star.
As a tau player I'm real happy about this! Hopefully others will stop giving tau players a bad name!
Only people who have to win with plastic toy soldiers, gave Tau a bad name. Win at all cost. Be interesting to see how many Tau toys will be on eBay in the upcoming weeks.
The sale of all these riptides will drive up the number of all riptide unbound armies!!! Is it better or worse????
Thankfully none of are friends are total douche bags so I won't have to suffer the douchery of 9 riptides / hell drakes / demon princes / insert cool / bogus unit here
Syphid wrote: Have the warlord trait tables changed?
These were posted earlier:
warlord traits are:
Skilled fighter:
1. the warlord has the counter attack special rule.
2. the warlord has the furious charge special rule.
3. the warlord hase the outflank special rule.
4. the warlord gains 1 victory point for each charactermodell he kills in a challenge.
5. the warlord has the feel no pain special rule.
6.the warlord has the fearless and it will not die special rule.
Skilled Leader:
1. all allied units within 12" can use the warlords LD.
2. all enemys within 12" of the warlord have to use the lowest LD.
3.the warlord and all friendly units within 12" of the warlord have the move through cover special rule.
4. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" add +1" on run and assault moves.
5. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the shooting phase.
6. the warlord and all friendly units within 12" reroll failed to hit rolls of 1 in the assault phase.
Skilled Tactican:
1.as long as your warlord is alive you can discard 2 mission objectives per turn instead of 1.
2. one use only: declare at the end of one of your turns. if you declare the warlord trait your enemy has to discard one random mission objective of his.
3.obtain a additional mission objective at the start of your first turn.
4. when declaring mission objectives in your first turn you can select to discard up to all your mission objectives and draw new ones.
5.as long as your warlord is alive you can reroll the victory point result that you get for each mission objective archived.
6. for all tactical secured tactical mission objectives x (x is 1-6) you archive you gain a additional victory point.
There's an entire table that's useless if you aren't playing Maelstrom of War?
Something chew just asked, it is indeed correct IC's cannot join units that contain MCs or vehicles.... [/spoiler]
RIP O'vesa Star.
As a tau player I'm real happy about this! Hopefully others will stop giving tau players a bad name!
Only people who have to win with plastic toy soldiers, gave Tau a bad name. Win at all cost. Be interesting to see how many Tau toys will be on eBay in the upcoming weeks.
The sale of all these riptides will drive up the number of all riptide unbound armies!!! Is it better or worse????
I guess it all depends on if the community players ignore unbound lists like 2 FOC shenanigans or random terrain. You are right could be worse.
I guess all those people chirping about how WD lies and that they were only test games and there's no way Dark Angels will be able to summon Daemons can all go and suck it now.
Everyone can summon Daemons, except Grey Knights (well, and Tyranids, because feth Tyranids, amirite?). I think people should make a point of playing Eldar and summoning nothing but Slaaneshi Daemons. Oh God FORGE that narrative!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Would I be right in saying that everyone's had their available psychic powers changed around a little bit... except for 'Nids who still get nothing?
I have yet to find who can take what!
Smash 1 attack?
Are dedicated transports for troops choices objective secured?
also the 
Try killing my blobs now!!!!
do you roll perils twice or just once?
