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Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/01 06:50:13


Post by: p5freak


 vict0988 wrote:
I've ran 60 Immortals in I don't know how many games and I lose maybe 3 models/game to morale. Immortal Pride is worse than Hype Strat unless you are running Warriors. If your opponent tries to push hard for the Morale value you can re-roll or auto pass for CP, your opponent will have no reason to try their luck if you are Fearless. Imotekh is also our toughest HQ (unless you use Relic + WL trait on a D-Lord), it makes perfect sense to make him your WL.


Agreed. With silver tide immortal pride is an auto take, but not with immortals. With immortal pride is you are forcing your opponent to kill the entire squad, maybe overshooting them. Without immortal pride he can leave 1 or 2 alive (if the unit has 10), to force you to spend 2 CP, or lose them to morale.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/10 23:13:53


Post by: Pyrothem


So with Spasse Marines getting a 2.0 shot in the arm: offense power upped and P Marines getting more wounds.

Do we have an idea on how to mitigate the coming wave?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/10 23:30:56


Post by: Grimskul


Pyrothem wrote:
So with Spasse Marines getting a 2.0 shot in the arm: offense power upped and P Marines getting more wounds.

Do we have an idea on how to mitigate the coming wave?


Tbh, it kinda looks like you just have to double down on destroyers and doomsday Arks, as well as tripointing wraiths in assault effectively. Nephrekh might be mandatory to ensure your destroyers can actually survive T1 and be at their optimal target from the 1CP deep strike stratagem now that T1 drop pods are a thing as well as the devastator doctrine making a huge bunch of weapons gain extra AP.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/10 23:49:28


Post by: Pyrothem


Yeah with all the extra AP and Damage filling their ranks Wrathes may have to find a way into lists. I don't think Destroyers will, even with a Nephrekh drop with Aspecks Scan they will be blown off the board with ease.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/11 00:03:10


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Pyrothem wrote:
So with Spasse Marines getting a 2.0 shot in the arm: offense power upped and P Marines getting more wounds.

Do we have an idea on how to mitigate the coming wave?


Hope that we'll get steroids soon after.
With our mediocre damage output, defenses and buffs fighting SM suddenly seems a hell lot harder. You'll pretty much need to fill your lists with several units of destroyers, wraiths and vehicles.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/11 05:42:10


Post by: Kahi the Uncertain


I just watched Tabletop Tactics' battle report with the new Ultramarines vs Necrons that was uploaded yesterday, and it may be the most severe roflstomp I have ever seen on the channel.

The necron list wasn't super competitive, but by no means casual, having 30 timmortals, 6 wraiths and destroyers, 2 DDAs, scarabs for screening and a triarch stalker, as well as OL+Cryptek+Lord for HQs.

The SM had first turn and just deleted units left and right, whereas the Necrons did very little in return, and this is essentially how the game went on throughout. I am quite dejected about our prospects, things are simply not looking good.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/11 07:15:49


Post by: p5freak


I believe GW has overdone buffing SM. All factions will suffer, until they get their new codices. Top5 lists in future tournaments will be SM only.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/12 01:03:27


Post by: Shaelinith


Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
I just watched Tabletop Tactics' battle report with the new Ultramarines vs Necrons that was uploaded yesterday, and it may be the most severe roflstomp I have ever seen on the channel.

The necron list wasn't super competitive, but by no means casual, having 30 timmortals, 6 wraiths and destroyers, 2 DDAs, scarabs for screening and a triarch stalker, as well as OL+Cryptek+Lord for HQs.

The SM had first turn and just deleted units left and right, whereas the Necrons did very little in return, and this is essentially how the game went on throughout. I am quite dejected about our prospects, things are simply not looking good.


I dunno, the necron player lose all his Destroyer with an error (Destroyers not in cryptek 5++ aura) and some luck for the rerolls of the grav guns. In general the Necron player make some mistakes and have bad rolls.

On the other hand, the necron list is indeed not that bad (maybe too much scarabs, but with the new drop pods, it made sense) while the SM list seems a collection of things that were good in other editions piled together and it manage to destroy ~450 points of necron in no time (with heavy CP burn, but still). The first turn of the necron is hilariously bad, or sad, or both.

When the SM players will crunch this book and go for optimized lists, it will be scary. Finger crossed for the same amount of work on a new necron codex, like a monolith dropping turn one and disembarking, but i'm pretty sure we will not have this


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/12 13:26:37


Post by: dapperbandit


Yeah that game was painful to watch. Much as I love Bone, he doesn't seem to do well using Necrons.

I think part of that is relatively limited Necron Army they have. I've seen them use a single Doom Scythe before, and a Monolith, but never tomb blades. They also seem utterly reluctant to mix Dynasty Codes in different detachments so they don't make the most of what they have.

It's just a fact that DDAs are swingy in shots and damage but he moved them when he didn't need to and you could question his targetting.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/12 13:52:30


Post by: vict0988


dapperbandit wrote:
Yeah that game was painful to watch. Much as I love Bone, he doesn't seem to do well using Necrons.

I think part of that is relatively limited Necron Army they have. I've seen them use a single Doom Scythe before, and a Monolith, but never tomb blades. They also seem utterly reluctant to mix Dynasty Codes in different detachments so they don't make the most of what they have.

It's just a fact that DDAs are swingy in shots and damage but he moved them when he didn't need to and you could question his targetting.

I think they wanted to show the new book off from a good side, they could have picked Imperial Soup and gak all over them most likely.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/13 11:41:06


Post by: IanVanCheese


Yeah I've always thought Bone struggles with necrons. It was a mixture of mistakes, poor deployment and bad dice. New marines are strong, but that match shouldn't be so heavily in favour of marines.

But in Bone's defense, Chronometron being a 3" aura is gak.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/13 11:47:23


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Yeah, the 3" range and the high price is why I don't bother taking chronos anymore. Canoptek Cloaks are cheaper and they serve as great Veil of Darkness delivery systems.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/13 11:57:34


Post by: Kahi the Uncertain


I tend to run my cryptek with neither, since its kitbashed and not modelled with neither the cloak nor a chronometron.

Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen any list where the cryptek doesn't have either a chrono or cloak. Is the general consensus that crypteks shouldn't be taken naked?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/13 12:00:23


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
I tend to run my cryptek with neither, since its kitbashed and not modelled with neither the cloak nor a chronometron.

Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen any list where the cryptek doesn't have either a chrono or cloak. Is the general consensus that crypteks shouldn't be taken naked?


I'm pretty sure you have to take at least one. There is no "naked" cryptek.
Edit : Oh wow you can take it naked. Huh. I guess I need to find something to call a chronometron to put on my kit bashed cryptek. It does have a glowing ball thing on the back of its head, so I guess that can be it.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/13 12:09:59


Post by: Kahi the Uncertain


Yeah, they come with the staff only, then may take either chrono or cloak.

Mine has two coils protruding from its back, so if I have the points I'll just say they're the things generating the chronometron field


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/13 21:38:16


Post by: ImPhaeronWeasel


Wait wait...who said we re getting 2.0 dexes? As far as I know SM are for now the only ones because they are the poster boys


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/13 21:59:15


Post by: sieGermans


I don’t think anyone is expecting a 2.0. I reckon the SM 2.0 was meant to:

1. Reconcile Primaris into the general SM
2. Fix/Nerf Imperial Soup
3. Sell more models via Chapter Tactics, Guilliman tweak/nerf


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/14 04:56:19


Post by: p5freak


ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Wait wait...who said we re getting 2.0 dexes? As far as I know SM are for now the only ones because they are the poster boys


The new codex SM isnt 2.0, not officially, its just a new SM codex. Only CSM have gotten a 2.0 codex so far.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/14 05:26:23


Post by: tneva82


ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Wait wait...who said we re getting 2.0 dexes? As far as I know SM are for now the only ones because they are the poster boys


Simple logic. You think they are going to stop producing codexes forever? What next? You expect 8th ed be the final edition with no updates? GW always claims that too. They claimed 6th would be the ultimate ruleset. And 7th.

GW always does new rounds in eternal loop. And why not? It's "print me some money" button. Chaos got new codex. Marines got new codex. Dark angels will be soonish be getting new codex. And eventually every codecx will be redone whether in 8th ed or in 9th ed(which will be coming next or year after that most likely with codex compatibility). And eventually even those will be redone.

It's GW's eternal loop. GW has done nothing to indicate they have stopped that. If anything AOS has it revved up a notch.

And again there's very simple reason for it. Every time they release codex it not only gives them instant sales(how many necron players would rather not continue to play rather than buy new one?) and models as rules change making new unit good and attracting new players. If GW would not rerelease necron codex ever they would basically settle for trickle sales for necrons.

It's not question of whether others do or not. It's just question of when. 2020? 2021?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 p5freak wrote:
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Wait wait...who said we re getting 2.0 dexes? As far as I know SM are for now the only ones because they are the poster boys


The new codex SM isnt 2.0, not officially, its just a new SM codex. Only CSM have gotten a 2.0 codex so far.


Yeah well officially 40k rulebook is just a rulebook and not 8 edition. GW doesn't number things. It's replacement for previous codex/rulebook. It's GW style. And hey even chaos codex doesn't refer itself as 2.0 codex.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/14 05:57:03


Post by: Eldarain


They labelled the Chaos Codex II.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/14 06:10:22


Post by: tneva82


Codex: Chaos Space Marines <- that's the title in the shop.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/14 09:01:23


Post by: IHateNids


There is a small second edition icon on it though, just fyi (no malicious intent, you may have missed it as I did until I bought it)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/15 21:11:19


Post by: v0iddrgn


What kind of changes to the new and improved Marine dex would you suggest? In what way will the meta shift?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/16 10:13:11


Post by: dapperbandit


Aggressors using Tactical Doctrine will be now be adding -1AP to their barrel of dice attacks making them even deadlier.

Also quite possible people will start using drop pods to deliver alpha strikes turn one as Space Marines can now do this (though I believe jump pack infantry and Primaris models can't be carried by drop pods)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/16 11:08:29


Post by: torblind


schaff/hordes and T8 parks in the back seems to have been a thing with 8th over all.

Necrons on the other hand seemed more geared towards elitish infantry, with plenty of S6/S7 weaponry with -1 and -2 AP, but not as easy access to S8 and above. (Any price efficient S8+ weaponry has been auto incldes almost, DDAs, Scyhtes), and destroyers have the stratagem to make their S6 fantastic anyway.

The new SM codex has perhaps brought elite infantry back in the meta again, only sucks that we can't really handle them anyway. Or they eat us up before we get to do anything.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/16 15:42:47


Post by: v0iddrgn


Maybe a pseudo Silvertide will be a good solution going forward. Hordes are already a thing and Mephrit would be devastating at the close range that the SM like to operate in.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/17 00:28:02


Post by: Pyrothem


Maybe trying the warrior blocks might be something to look into again. Keeping Warriors with the shieldtek 5++ would mitigate anything over -1 ap. Keeping a defense stance and hiding a chunk of warriors from being wiped(easier said then done) we may be able to out last them.

I think trying to out damage Space Marines now is impossible so we need to switch to out lasting them. I don't think we are going to get a new book till next year at the soonest so I guess trying out different lists till something sticks.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/17 09:06:20


Post by: sieGermans


If we get a new book this side of 2021, I will eat my hat.

More realistically, I expect it will be a Fall 2022 release at the soonest.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/17 21:42:23


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Pyrothem wrote:
Maybe trying the warrior blocks might be something to look into again. Keeping Warriors with the shieldtek 5++ would mitigate anything over -1 ap. Keeping a defense stance and hiding a chunk of warriors from being wiped(easier said then done) we may be able to out last them.

I think trying to out damage Space Marines now is impossible so we need to switch to out lasting them. I don't think we are going to get a new book till next year at the soonest so I guess trying out different lists till something sticks.

You can't outlast them. Necrons aren't durable whatsoever outside a couple niche units.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/17 23:08:40


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Yeah, for the durable army they aren't really that durable.
Warriors need their 3+ back, Chronos and technomancer need to have longer range and immortals need either 2W or T5.
Blanket FNP is a bad idea, imo. That would just turn necrons into Deathguard, and if I wanted to play Death Guard I'll go play Death Guard.
RP needs to be supported more. In the 3rd ed book the army was practically built around WBB, with various rules and items directly buffing it. This edition...not so much.

Some ideas -

-Monolith provides rerolls to all units, similar to how the GA works

-Increase technomancer to 6"

-Give spyders technomancer, or something similar

-Make the resurrection orb actually worth something. A 35 point one use item that provides a mere reroll is just sad. If you are going to make it provide rerolls, at least remove the 1 use limit.

-Wiped squads can roll for RP, but only if there is a unit of the same type within 6" and may not receive buffs no rerolls, as the unit technically no longer exists. Any model that fails its roll in this case is permanently removed as a casualty. Models that succeed join the closest unit of the same type within this 6"


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/18 08:10:40


Post by: Kahi the Uncertain


Personally I'd prefer having the old WBB rule over the current RP. The current iteration of RP cannot be balanced as it is, it's too strong in and of itself, and its weakness is too dramatic. Which is why it's disgusting in small games, and useless in large games.

Letting units that have been completely wiped roll for RP, could possibly be balanced if done properly, but it's not fun to play against. Every person I play with pretty much hates the feel of Necrons, because it's like you're not making any progress when almost entire units come back, and people disliking a faction in this community demonstrably results in that faction being nerfed into the earth's very core. So whilst fluffy and cool, I think it'd be detrimental in the long run.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/18 20:15:56


Post by: Oguhmek


Letting wiped units get RP could be a nice use for a resurrection orb. Fluffy too.

Or just give us a 2CP strategem to let us do it.

And for Emperor's sake, let those 3" auras be 6" like every other damn faction in the game.

Oh, and yes, Immortals should definitely be 2W.

Necrons are pretty weak now, we do need some buffs other than points reductions.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/18 20:57:15


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Eh, I prefer not locking all of the cool rules behind stratagems. I prefer my idea. Its not as if you are getting it for "free", as there is that important condition of needing to have a squad of the same type near by, which means you have to double up everything to get the most out of it. Which can be expensive.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/19 10:17:14


Post by: zacharia


Making rez orb a 1 use rp roll for a wiped out unit keeps its one use as is while making it usefull and solving the main problem with rp without making it dependant on a startagem


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/19 11:23:01


Post by: IHateNids


I would honestly just ,make it an aura of rerolls constantly

its expensive enough that that's not a terrible idea


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/19 11:45:04


Post by: tneva82


v0iddrgn wrote:
Maybe a pseudo Silvertide will be a good solution going forward. Hordes are already a thing and Mephrit would be devastating at the close range that the SM like to operate in.


Dunno. Ultramarines for example prefer to operate >18" <=24" range. They can shoot 2 bolter shots per turn and move around at will while enemy will not get to rapid fire range as easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
zacharia wrote:
Making rez orb a 1 use rp roll for a wiped out unit keeps its one use as is while making it usefull and solving the main problem with rp without making it dependant on a startagem


Also scale horribly resulting in what we have now, necron good at small points, bad at 2k+.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/19 12:39:30


Post by: v0iddrgn


Yeah but the rerolls don't solve the main issue Necrons have, which is getting RP turned off before we get to make use of it. That was its role before the 5th edition codex came out, it turned on WBB rolls even against wounds that turned it off normally.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/19 15:15:36


Post by: wuestenfux


Well, in the ETC 2018 lists flyers are a big thing.
It appears that Necron lists with 3 Doomsday Arks, 3 Doom Scythes, and what not are the most successful these days.
Please check out this list:
3rd Place
Coulson Knowles – Midnight Sun GT



== Outrider Detachment == Necron, Sautekh [ 51PL, 910pts] 1 CP

HQ: Cryptek (70), Staff of Light (10), Canoptek Cloak (5), RELIC: Veil of Darkness [5PL] 85pts

FA: 9 Tomb Blades (126), 9x Two Tesla Carbines (126), 3x Shieldvanes (9) [14 PL] [261 pts]

FA: 9 Tomb Blades (126), 9x Two Tesla Carbines (126), 4x Shieldvanes (12) [14 PL] [264 pts]

FA: 6 Destroyers (180), 6x Gauss Cannon (120), [15 PL] [300 pts]

== Spearhead Detachment == Necron, Sautekh [40 PL, 640 pts] 1 CP
HQ: Imotekh the Stormlord, WARLORD (160) [10 PL] [160 pts] 1 CP

HS: Doomsday Ark (160), Doomsday Cannon (0), 2x Gauss Flayer Array (0) [10 PL] [160 pts]

HS: Doomsday Ark (160), Doomsday Cannon (0), 2x Gauss Flayer Array (0) [10 PL] [160 pts]

HS: Doomsday Ark (160), Doomsday Cannon (0), 2x Gauss Flayer Array (0) [10 PL] [160 pts]

== Air Wing Detachment == Necron, Sautekh [ 33 PL, 450pts] 1 CP
FLYER: Doom Scythe (150), Death Ray (0), 2x Tesla Destructors(0), [11 PL] [150 pts]

FLYER: Doom Scythe (150), Death Ray (0), 2x Tesla Destructors(0), [11 PL] [150 pts]

FLYER: Doom Scythe (150), Death Ray (0), 2x Tesla Destructors(0), [11 PL] [150 pts]

Thoughts?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/19 15:59:38


Post by: vict0988


 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, in the ETC 2018 lists flyers are a big thing.
It appears that Necron lists with 3 Doomsday Arks, 3 Doom Scythes, and what not are the most successful these days.
Please check out this list:
3rd Place
Coulson Knowles – Midnight Sun GT



== Outrider Detachment == Necron, Sautekh [ 51PL, 910pts] 1 CP

HQ: Cryptek (70), Staff of Light (10), Canoptek Cloak (5), RELIC: Veil of Darkness [5PL] 85pts

FA: 9 Tomb Blades (126), 9x Two Tesla Carbines (126), 3x Shieldvanes (9) [14 PL] [261 pts]

FA: 9 Tomb Blades (126), 9x Two Tesla Carbines (126), 4x Shieldvanes (12) [14 PL] [264 pts]

FA: 6 Destroyers (180), 6x Gauss Cannon (120), [15 PL] [300 pts]

== Spearhead Detachment == Necron, Sautekh [40 PL, 640 pts] 1 CP
HQ: Imotekh the Stormlord, WARLORD (160) [10 PL] [160 pts] 1 CP

HS: Doomsday Ark (160), Doomsday Cannon (0), 2x Gauss Flayer Array (0) [10 PL] [160 pts]

HS: Doomsday Ark (160), Doomsday Cannon (0), 2x Gauss Flayer Array (0) [10 PL] [160 pts]

HS: Doomsday Ark (160), Doomsday Cannon (0), 2x Gauss Flayer Array (0) [10 PL] [160 pts]

== Air Wing Detachment == Necron, Sautekh [ 33 PL, 450pts] 1 CP
FLYER: Doom Scythe (150), Death Ray (0), 2x Tesla Destructors(0), [11 PL] [150 pts]

FLYER: Doom Scythe (150), Death Ray (0), 2x Tesla Destructors(0), [11 PL] [150 pts]

FLYER: Doom Scythe (150), Death Ray (0), 2x Tesla Destructors(0), [11 PL] [150 pts]

Thoughts?

There is literally nothing interesting about the list to my mind, battalion or outrider or cut out the spearhead and fold ddax3 into a battalion. We have seen no bat and 1 bat both work with doom6. There are threads elsewhere for wishlists and game design discussion.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/19 16:13:58


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


That little CP would make me incredibly nervous.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/19 16:16:52


Post by: Kahi the Uncertain


 vict0988 wrote:

There is literally nothing interesting about the list to my mind, battalion or outrider or cut out the spearhead and fold ddax3 into a battalion. We have seen no bat and 1 bat both work with doom6. There are threads elsewhere for wishlists and game design discussion.


Boo


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/19 16:48:12


Post by: vict0988


Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:

There is literally nothing interesting about the list to my mind, battalion or outrider or cut out the spearhead and fold ddax3 into a battalion. We have seen no bat and 1 bat both work with doom6. There are threads elsewhere for wishlists and game design discussion.


Boo

What? I thought the exact same list topped an event a month or so back and multiple posters have made their preference of FA over Troops heard. Imotekh and Strategists helps mitigate CP troubles and apparently some people have the self-control to ration 7-11 cp instead of 9-13 or 13-19. I played with a few friends over the weekend and brought my 9 cp fearless list, I run out t4 at the latest and that is with strict rationing Destroyers are great, best kn groups of 6, TBs are awesome with tesla or gauss depending on meta and your list, shield vanes are probably the best upgrade for them and only taking it for some m2mbers of the units makes the unit a tiny bit more pts effecient. Doom6 is amazing, cloaktek is the only option in a 3xdda no bat list. Imotekh is good enough that his double mwbd is just icing on a stormy, durable and hard hitting cake.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/19 17:33:52


Post by: Pyrothem


I don't think that list is going to make it out of round 1 with the new Marines coming. The volume of shots at AP -2 is going to turn the D-Day Arks and D-scythe into dust easy.

TOMB Blades with smart positioning could make it to turn 5 but I am seeing a lot of table wipes in our future for now.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/19 17:52:45


Post by: Dynas


Necrons are basically triple DDA and Scythe and everything else is flavor as desired.

New Marines are definitely going to be Tier 1.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/19 20:04:45


Post by: v0iddrgn


Short sighted rhetoric.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/20 05:09:14


Post by: DogHeadGod


I know I am in the minority here, but I see dcythes as efficient only against lists I likely would have beaten anyway. Against mid to top tier, they drop 1 scythe turn 1, and I suddenly wish I'd spent that 450 somewhere more useful. After all, everyone in ITC already plans for the 5 eldar flyer list, and eldar have far better/more survivable flyers than necrons.

However, a 2 battalion/3 dda setup offers board control, significant dakka at s5 and s8/s10. Engineers is a lock, solid lead downrange, and good board presence/survivability.

I am simply not certain elite/low model count is the way to go with 'crons. My various two battalion + conceptsnhave far outperformed the doom6 vs tbe lists I would be concerned about.

The downside is this; you can't fit six destroyers into a two batallion concept that uses useful unit sizes for troops. I get that this is a dealbreaker for many, but I put this to you... imho, taken in one unit of 6, destroyers are a trap unit. They are too vulnerable at 300 points, and too great a loss after 1 turn of shooting from a mid to top tier army.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/20 14:31:31


Post by: v0iddrgn


I agree that Necrons are too squishy to be played like an Elite-style army. I think we are in a bad position to be dominant bit that doesn't mean we can't win. Not to put anyone off but, group think won't get us anywhere either.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/20 15:12:41


Post by: tneva82


 vict0988 wrote:

There is literally nothing interesting about the list to my mind, battalion or outrider or cut out the spearhead and fold ddax3 into a battalion. We have seen no bat and 1 bat both work with doom6. There are threads elsewhere for wishlists and game design discussion.


Well competive players aren't looking at what's interesting. They look at what's most effective is and spam it.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/20 16:15:13


Post by: vict0988


tneva82 wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:

There is literally nothing interesting about the list to my mind, battalion or outrider or cut out the spearhead and fold ddax3 into a battalion. We have seen no bat and 1 bat both work with doom6. There are threads elsewhere for wishlists and game design discussion.


Well competive players aren't looking at what's interesting. They look at what's most effective is and spam it.

That wasn't my point, the army is interesting to play I imagine, it's just a slight variation of a theme we've already seen and discussed I believe. Asking how to play the army would be a more interesting question and one that I'd like to know the answer to, how do you make the most of your Doom Scythes?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/20 19:32:08


Post by: sieGermans


 vict0988 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:

There is literally nothing interesting about the list to my mind, battalion or outrider or cut out the spearhead and fold ddax3 into a battalion. We have seen no bat and 1 bat both work with doom6. There are threads elsewhere for wishlists and game design discussion.


Well competive players aren't looking at what's interesting. They look at what's most effective is and spam it.

That wasn't my point, the army is interesting to play I imagine, it's just a slight variation of a theme we've already seen and discussed I believe. Asking how to play the army would be a more interesting question and one that I'd like to know the answer to, how do you make the most of your Doom Scythes?


I find that in most circumstances, Doom Scythes seem to more reliably produce more mortal wounds than even C’Tan Powers. They are also terrific distractions.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/20 23:40:47


Post by: Eonfuzz


Well, looks like Marines all received improved gauss weaponry in their new codex.

At least Cawl hasn't figured out a way to make moarhuins ressurect themselves... yet.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/21 03:17:12


Post by: Maelstrom808


 vict0988 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:

There is literally nothing interesting about the list to my mind, battalion or outrider or cut out the spearhead and fold ddax3 into a battalion. We have seen no bat and 1 bat both work with doom6. There are threads elsewhere for wishlists and game design discussion.


Well competive players aren't looking at what's interesting. They look at what's most effective is and spam it.

That wasn't my point, the army is interesting to play I imagine, it's just a slight variation of a theme we've already seen and discussed I believe. Asking how to play the army would be a more interesting question and one that I'd like to know the answer to, how do you make the most of your Doom Scythes?


If you are playing Doom Scythes strictly for the strat, you are wasting 450 points. When you consider that you first have to have three DS survive long enough to use it, then actually have a target that it makes sense to use it against (many targets it's actually better to use the Death Rays), and THEN not tank the roll for the strat, you are not getting value out of them in most games.

Now what they can do for you otherwise? The threat of the strat is usually far more effective than the strat itself. Often you will force an opponent to deploy in a less than optimal set up just so they can minimize the potential damage you can do. In addition, it will put their focus on killing one of the Doomscythe's turn one at all costs. This means it takes the heat off of your DDAs and multi wound units like Destroyers and Wraiths.

On top of the mind games, they have more tangible benefits as well. They make scoring recon the first turn or two much easier without over extending some of your other units. While the death Ray has the same inconsistency issues as the Doomsday Cannon, it can still do work against the right targets and the Tesla destructors are flexible enough that you can use them for chip damage against the same targets that the Death Rays are targeting, or use them to clear off a basic troop unit sitting on an objective. Also, even though flyers took a nerf now that models can move through their bases, they still have to end that move more than an inch away, and this can be used to protect units from first turn charges as well as protecting deep striking units later in the game if planned ahead well.

They are not a super unit. They are not on the same level as smash captains, but they can win games if used intelligently.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/21 04:26:11


Post by: elook


Anyone know how the official measurement is made when using the Doom Scythe strat? Does the 6" need to measured from the base or the model?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/21 07:19:56


Post by: vict0988


elook wrote:
Anyone know how the official measurement is made when using the Doom Scythe strat? Does the 6" need to measured from the base or the model?

All measurements are made from the base unless the model lacks a base, in which case it's made from the hull of the vehicle, check the YMDC section and search for hull if you're not sure where exactly a hull is. A few models can measure from both, like Hover vehicles of which we have some.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/21 23:56:35


Post by: elook


 vict0988 wrote:
elook wrote:
Anyone know how the official measurement is made when using the Doom Scythe strat? Does the 6" need to measured from the base or the model?

All measurements are made from the base unless the model lacks a base, in which case it's made from the hull of the vehicle, check the YMDC section and search for hull if you're not sure where exactly a hull is. A few models can measure from both, like Hover vehicles of which we have some.


Right, so when using Doom Scythes, the range (including the strat) is measured from the base, and the line of sight is done from the model?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/22 01:57:10


Post by: Maelstrom808


elook wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
elook wrote:
Anyone know how the official measurement is made when using the Doom Scythe strat? Does the 6" need to measured from the base or the model?

All measurements are made from the base unless the model lacks a base, in which case it's made from the hull of the vehicle, check the YMDC section and search for hull if you're not sure where exactly a hull is. A few models can measure from both, like Hover vehicles of which we have some.


Right, so when using Doom Scythes, the range (including the strat) is measured from the base, and the line of sight is done from the model?


Correct


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/22 05:00:48


Post by: p5freak


Line of sight is from any point of the model. This includes the stand and the base.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/23 16:31:14


Post by: Marshal_Gus


People keep saying SM will be tier 1, but I haven't seen a truly scary list posted yet. I keep reading about all sorts of combos, but I haven't seen a full list that looks poised to dominate the meta.

They got a ton of buffs, but I believe they needed a ton of help just to be brought up to speed with most of the other factions.

I'm going to a GT next month, and I'm looking forward to playing with my DDAs, Tesseract Arks, Doom Scythes, and Destroyers. I'm assuming Chaos Knights and Space Marines will be there in abundance, and I'm expecting to have a great time. I imagine the SM players will be trying a variety of strategies. I know I'm hoping to see Drop Pod armies, Repulsors + Guilliman, and Dreadnought Spam.

If someone has a link to a competitive SM list, I'd love to see it.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/23 19:48:27


Post by: sieGermans


Marshal_Gus wrote:
People keep saying SM will be tier 1, but I haven't seen a truly scary list posted yet. I keep reading about all sorts of combos, but I haven't seen a full list that looks poised to dominate the meta.

They got a ton of buffs, but I believe they needed a ton of help just to be brought up to speed with most of the other factions.

I'm going to a GT next month, and I'm looking forward to playing with my DDAs, Tesseract Arks, Doom Scythes, and Destroyers. I'm assuming Chaos Knights and Space Marines will be there in abundance, and I'm expecting to have a great time. I imagine the SM players will be trying a variety of strategies. I know I'm hoping to see Drop Pod armies, Repulsors + Guilliman, and Dreadnought Spam.

If someone has a link to a competitive SM list, I'd love to see it.


Aye, pure SM needed the buff and soup doesn’t really benefit from these buffs.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/23 19:50:49


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


I do like how GW is trying to discourage soup. That means they are trying. Let's hope they try to fix us and give us some build a dynasty options too.
I don't really mind the huge marine release all that much, as the Primaris range did need some fleshing out. I just hope we get our turn soon.

I'd like if we got more canoptek units and some heavy tanks. 5th ed pushed us towards the Egyptians in space direction instead of the murder machine direction, which I didn't like. I'd prefer a more mechanical approach to necrons, with an emphasis on automated war-machines and combat robots. The Seraptek was a good start. More units like that, maybe some sort of grav tank, would be nice.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/23 22:47:40


Post by: Kahi the Uncertain


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I do like how GW is trying to discourage soup. That means they are trying. Let's hope they try to fix us and give us some build a dynasty options too.
I don't really mind the huge marine release all that much, as the Primaris range did need some fleshing out. I just hope we get our turn soon.

I'd like if we got more canoptek units and some heavy tanks. 5th ed pushed us towards the Egyptians in space direction instead of the murder machine direction, which I didn't like. I'd prefer a more mechanical approach to necrons, with an emphasis on automated war-machines and combat robots. The Seraptek was a good start. More units like that, maybe some sort of grav tank, would be nice.


I mean, we do have the monolith, which I think is a great sculpt, albeit a bit aged. The big problem is that it's unplayably horrific


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/23 22:58:12


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I do like how GW is trying to discourage soup. That means they are trying. Let's hope they try to fix us and give us some build a dynasty options too.
I don't really mind the huge marine release all that much, as the Primaris range did need some fleshing out. I just hope we get our turn soon.

I'd like if we got more canoptek units and some heavy tanks. 5th ed pushed us towards the Egyptians in space direction instead of the murder machine direction, which I didn't like. I'd prefer a more mechanical approach to necrons, with an emphasis on automated war-machines and combat robots. The Seraptek was a good start. More units like that, maybe some sort of grav tank, would be nice.


I mean, we do have the monolith, which I think is a great sculpt, albeit a bit aged. The big problem is that it's unplayably horrific


Yeah, we have that, but that's more of a support vehicle. I'm talking about a proper medium sized battle tank, like our version of a predator.
The Doomsday doesn't count; its T6 and is more like an artillery piece, albeit without indirect fire.
The monolith isn't great. Dropping from 381 to 320 wasn't enough, it needs to be 250 and allow you to deploy units on arrival.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/25 20:12:39


Post by: v0iddrgn


Our Arks being T6 Sv4+ really irks me. Before 8th we actually had tough vehicles now every auto cannon equivalent is a death knell for our QS vehicles.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/25 20:16:43


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Yeah, QS isn't really that reliable. In theory its good against high damage weapons, but most high damage weapons have variable damage, and as you have to roll UNDER the damage value you actually have a pretty low chance of protection against damage 3 and below. It gets better against Damage 4 and above, but that rarely happens.

I'd prefer it if it worked like that shadow shield thing that Dark Eldar have. You know, 2+ invul until it fails.
Or if it added some sort of heavy defensive buff if the attacker is far enough. Like, double toughness, +1 to saves, and 5+ invul.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 05:58:08


Post by: vict0988


Friendly reminder that wish-listing is irrelevant to this thread and that not one of our QS vehicles is trash and one of them is our very best unit. I had a game a couple of weeks ago, my GA got shot by 2 lances after getting hit by Doom, I popped QD and then got shot by another 6 lances, I suffered a total of 4 damage. Using QD whenever you get shot at by a D6 damage weapon is very effective, even against D3 it's pretty good.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 06:10:07


Post by: tneva82


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, QS isn't really that reliable. In theory its good against high damage weapons, but most high damage weapons have variable damage, and as you have to roll UNDER the damage value you actually have a pretty low chance of protection against damage 3 and below. It gets better against Damage 4 and above, but that rarely happens.

I'd prefer it if it worked like that shadow shield thing that Dark Eldar have. You know, 2+ invul until it fails.
Or if it added some sort of heavy defensive buff if the attacker is far enough. Like, double toughness, +1 to saves, and 5+ invul.


I wouldn't say 5++ as that low chance. Predator has no inv save whatsoever against that D3 weapon.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 08:16:12


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 vict0988 wrote:
Friendly reminder that wish-listing is irrelevant to this thread and that not one of our QS vehicles is trash and one of them is our very best unit. I had a game a couple of weeks ago, my GA got shot by 2 lances after getting hit by Doom, I popped QD and then got shot by another 6 lances, I suffered a total of 4 damage. Using QD whenever you get shot at by a D6 damage weapon is very effective, even against D3 it's pretty good.


You're lucky then. I have horrrible luck with QS. My vehicles might as well not have it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, QS isn't really that reliable. In theory its good against high damage weapons, but most high damage weapons have variable damage, and as you have to roll UNDER the damage value you actually have a pretty low chance of protection against damage 3 and below. It gets better against Damage 4 and above, but that rarely happens.

I'd prefer it if it worked like that shadow shield thing that Dark Eldar have. You know, 2+ invul until it fails.
Or if it added some sort of heavy defensive buff if the attacker is far enough. Like, double toughness, +1 to saves, and 5+ invul.


I wouldn't say 5++ as that low chance. Predator has no inv save whatsoever against that D3 weapon.


Fair enough, though the predator does have higher toughness and saves. I think it has fewer wounds though.

Anyway, has anyone else noticed that mephrit synergizes really well with tesla? If you pop that mephrit specific strat you can potentially get like 6 hits off of a single tesla shot.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 09:03:01


Post by: wuestenfux


v0iddrgn wrote:
Our Arks being T6 Sv4+ really irks me. Before 8th we actually had tough vehicles now every auto cannon equivalent is a death knell for our QS vehicles.

Well, it appears that successful Necron lists use 3 Doomsday Arks and 3 Doom Scythes, and fill the rest with the units of your choice: i.e., have a look at the 2nd ranked player in https://www.40kstats.com/castleassault


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 09:03:11


Post by: vict0988


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
Friendly reminder that wish-listing is irrelevant to this thread and that not one of our QS vehicles is trash and one of them is our very best unit. I had a game a couple of weeks ago, my GA got shot by 2 lances after getting hit by Doom, I popped QD and then got shot by another 6 lances, I suffered a total of 4 damage. Using QD whenever you get shot at by a D6 damage weapon is very effective, even against D3 it's pretty good.


You're lucky then. I have horrrible luck with QS. My vehicles might as well not have it.

For D6 damage the average damage caused against QS is 1,5 or 1 if you use QD. The average of 8 lances with doom shooting is 4,7. Add a CP re-roll and 4 wounds from 8 lances + Doom is perfectly average.
tneva82 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, QS isn't really that reliable. In theory its good against high damage weapons, but most high damage weapons have variable damage, and as you have to roll UNDER the damage value you actually have a pretty low chance of protection against damage 3 and below. It gets better against Damage 4 and above, but that rarely happens.

I'd prefer it if it worked like that shadow shield thing that Dark Eldar have. You know, 2+ invul until it fails.
Or if it added some sort of heavy defensive buff if the attacker is far enough. Like, double toughness, +1 to saves, and 5+ invul.


I wouldn't say 5++ as that low chance. Predator has no inv save whatsoever against that D3 weapon.


Fair enough, though the predator does have higher toughness and saves. I think it has fewer wounds though.

Anyway, has anyone else noticed that mephrit synergizes really well with tesla? If you pop that mephrit specific strat you can potentially get like 6 hits off of a single tesla shot.

Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game. With Mephrit at RF range Tesla truly becomes the anti-everything weapon, being better than Gauss against pretty much every target. How about that Stratagem? It improves firepower by 17% at the cost of 1 CP, compare that to Extermination Protocols = 40-90% for 1 CP or Showing Off/Endless Cacaphony 100% for 2CP. It's fun to use and might be worth it in the very niche circumstances, like if you've got a Triarch Stalker and MWBD on 10 Immortals, you get 6 extra S5 hits, okay not the absolute worst, especially at RF range or if you're already spending 1CP for ignores cover. Or with EP Destroyers you get 3,5 extra S6 AP-3 D3 Damage hits. But look at the ignores cover Stratagem I just mentioned, that's 33% more damage against GEQ in cover, 50% against Fire Warriors, 100% against MEQ or Rangers.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 13:41:13


Post by: Odrankt


Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game


I'm not sure if you ever did this. But 9 Tesla Tomb blades with the Mephrit Stratgem backed by a Stalker for RR1s to hit produces a lot of dakka. E.g. roll 4 die, if you roll 2 6s then before the tesla activates you roll 2 more die then do the Tesla. I often got an extra 10-16 Tesla pops from that gem which did come in handy

You can also combo it with Destroyers and the EP gem to get more dakka from them.

Not sure why you say it's one of the worst Stratgems in the game. But you do you I guess.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 13:43:06


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Wait, you can stack stratagems like that? That sounds hilarious, I need to try that.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 13:53:51


Post by: Odrankt


Yeah? Why couldn't you? They are done in the shooting phase and have separate names + abilities. So they stack? It's also only 2CP for both of them.18 + 6-8 (on average) S6 -3/-4 (if in half range) and D3 DMG with RRing all failed hits + wounds packs a lot of punch.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 14:39:30


Post by: JNAProductions


I don't think the Mephrit Strat gives you 6 hits on a roll of 6+ to-hit, I think it gives 4. Can someone confirm/deny?

Also, fun Quantum Shielding fact! Both d3 and d6 have the same average damage against a Quantum Shielded model.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 14:44:58


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 JNAProductions wrote:
I don't think the Mephrit Strat gives you 6 hits on a roll of 6+ to-hit, I think it gives 4. Can someone confirm/deny?

Also, fun Quantum Shielding fact! Both d3 and d6 have the same average damage against a Quantum Shielded model.


You roll a 6 to hit. That's 3 hits due to the tesla rule.
You then roll another hit roll due to the strat. If you get a 6, that's another 3 hits from tesla, for a total of 6 hits from a single die.

You do have to roll pretty hot for that to happen though. When it does happen its hilarious, especially if you can do it multiple times.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 14:47:08


Post by: Odrankt


I'm confused by the question? Tesla produces 2 extra hits on a 6+ (3 in total) but for every natural 6 you roll when using the Mephrit gem you get to roll an extra hit. So say if you rolled 9 6+ from your Tesla Tomb blades you then get to roll 9 more dice and after that you do the Tesla effect.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 14:49:06


Post by: JNAProductions


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
I don't think the Mephrit Strat gives you 6 hits on a roll of 6+ to-hit, I think it gives 4. Can someone confirm/deny?

Also, fun Quantum Shielding fact! Both d3 and d6 have the same average damage against a Quantum Shielded model.


You roll a 6 to hit. That's 3 hits due to the tesla rule.
You then roll another hit roll due to the strat. If you get a 6, that's another 3 hits from tesla, for a total of 6 hits from a single die.
Okay, my bad!

I thought it was an extra HIT from 6s to-hit, not an extra HIT ROLL.

So while a 6 to-hit could potentially generate 6 hits total, it averages to less.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 16:42:18


Post by: Dynas


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
I don't think the Mephrit Strat gives you 6 hits on a roll of 6+ to-hit, I think it gives 4. Can someone confirm/deny?

Also, fun Quantum Shielding fact! Both d3 and d6 have the same average damage against a Quantum Shielded model.


You roll a 6 to hit. That's 3 hits due to the tesla rule.
You then roll another hit roll due to the strat. If you get a 6, that's another 3 hits from tesla, for a total of 6 hits from a single die.

You do have to roll pretty hot for that to happen though. When it does happen its hilarious, especially if you can do it multiple times.


The strat says these hits cannot confer additional hits. So wouldn't it be.

Roll 6, thus you get 3 hits. Then you roll 1 more dice again for the original 6 rolled and determine if that hits (but if you get another 6 no tesla this time).
So max would be 4 hits even with a 2nd 6 roll.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 16:49:10


Post by: Odrankt


Yeah, the Stratgem means that if you roll another 6 you don't get to roll another die but the Tesla ability still works. Maybe read the codex and the Stratgem next time buddy.

Hate it when non-Necron players try to tell us out rules even though it pretty obvious how it's meant to be played.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 16:49:30


Post by: JNAProductions


 Dynas wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
I don't think the Mephrit Strat gives you 6 hits on a roll of 6+ to-hit, I think it gives 4. Can someone confirm/deny?

Also, fun Quantum Shielding fact! Both d3 and d6 have the same average damage against a Quantum Shielded model.


You roll a 6 to hit. That's 3 hits due to the tesla rule.
You then roll another hit roll due to the strat. If you get a 6, that's another 3 hits from tesla, for a total of 6 hits from a single die.

You do have to roll pretty hot for that to happen though. When it does happen its hilarious, especially if you can do it multiple times.


The strat says these hits cannot confer additional hits. So wouldn't it be.

Roll 6, thus you get 3 hits. Then you roll 1 more dice again for the original 6 rolled and determine if that hits (but if you get another 6 no tesla this time).
So max would be 4 hits even with a 2nd 6 roll.
Hm. RAW, I think that might be right-though RAI is likely that it just means you can't generate extra hits VIA THIS STRATAGEM. I'd ask your TO/opponent how they want to rule it before the game starts.

 Odrankt wrote:
Yeah, the Stratgem means that if you roll another 6 you don't get to roll another die but the Tesla ability still works. Maybe read the codex and the Stratgem next time buddy.
I misremembered the stratagem. I freely admitted I was wrong when it was pointed out and when I double-checked against the actual text.

No need to be rude about me making a mistake.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/26 17:18:29


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 Dynas wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
I don't think the Mephrit Strat gives you 6 hits on a roll of 6+ to-hit, I think it gives 4. Can someone confirm/deny?

Also, fun Quantum Shielding fact! Both d3 and d6 have the same average damage against a Quantum Shielded model.


You roll a 6 to hit. That's 3 hits due to the tesla rule.
You then roll another hit roll due to the strat. If you get a 6, that's another 3 hits from tesla, for a total of 6 hits from a single die.

You do have to roll pretty hot for that to happen though. When it does happen its hilarious, especially if you can do it multiple times.


The strat says these hits cannot confer additional hits. So wouldn't it be.

Roll 6, thus you get 3 hits. Then you roll 1 more dice again for the original 6 rolled and determine if that hits (but if you get another 6 no tesla this time).
So max would be 4 hits even with a 2nd 6 roll.


No, it says it cannot generate additional HIT ROLLS.
Tesla still works, even RAW, as its not a hit roll.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/27 03:21:52


Post by: tneva82


And despite it working it's still just 16% more hits. Poor usage of cp. Yes you get lucky and it's nice. Then you get unlucky and lt does nothing. You don't plan for luck. You plan for average. Which is 16% increase


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/27 06:16:25


Post by: torblind


 Odrankt wrote:
Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game


I'm not sure if you ever did this. But 9 Tesla Tomb blades with the Mephrit Stratgem backed by a Stalker for RR1s to hit produces a lot of dakka. E.g. roll 4 die, if you roll 2 6s then before the tesla activates you roll 2 more die then do the Tesla. I often got an extra 10-16 Tesla pops from that gem which did come in handy

You can also combo it with Destroyers and the EP gem to get more dakka from them.

Not sure why you say it's one of the worst Stratgems in the game. But you do you I guess.


Not sure why? He just said it, it's a mere 17% dmg increase. Others are better for the CP spent, hence it's one of the worse.

You argue with anecdotes and good feelings, he argues with math. Both have it's place, question is where.

It's common to think that the Mephrit strat is special for Tesla since they prpc on 6+. This is not the case. Tesla output gets a flat 17% damage increase, doesn't matter what dice they proc at. Tesla in itself is not improved by the strat. Any weapon would have a flat 17% damage increase.

There is something to be said for it through. It does synergize with rerolls, ie if you have reroll to hit, we're looking at around 25% increase from the stratagem. That's because there is a bit of a chain reaction where failed hit rolls gets rerolled possibly into 6s and those new hits may miss and get a new reroll into a cascading increase in hit probability.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/27 07:47:05


Post by: sieGermans


torblind wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game


I'm not sure if you ever did this. But 9 Tesla Tomb blades with the Mephrit Stratgem backed by a Stalker for RR1s to hit produces a lot of dakka. E.g. roll 4 die, if you roll 2 6s then before the tesla activates you roll 2 more die then do the Tesla. I often got an extra 10-16 Tesla pops from that gem which did come in handy

You can also combo it with Destroyers and the EP gem to get more dakka from them.

Not sure why you say it's one of the worst Stratgems in the game. But you do you I guess.


[abridged]

It's common to think that the Mephrit strat is special for Tesla since they prpc on 6+. This is not the case. Tesla output gets a flat 17% damage increase, doesn't matter what dice they proc at. Tesla in itself is not improved by the strat. Any weapon would have a flat 17% damage increase.

There is something to be said for it through. It does synergize with rerolls, ie if you have reroll to hit, we're looking at around 25% increase from the stratagem. That's because there is a bit of a chain reaction where failed hit rolls gets rerolled possibly into 6s and those new hits may miss and get a new reroll into a cascading increase in hit probability.


This is good analysis.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/27 08:12:16


Post by: vict0988


torblind wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game


I'm not sure if you ever did this. But 9 Tesla Tomb blades with the Mephrit Stratgem backed by a Stalker for RR1s to hit produces a lot of dakka. E.g. roll 4 die, if you roll 2 6s then before the tesla activates you roll 2 more die then do the Tesla. I often got an extra 10-16 Tesla pops from that gem which did come in handy

You can also combo it with Destroyers and the EP gem to get more dakka from them.

Not sure why you say it's one of the worst Stratgems in the game. But you do you I guess.


Not sure why? He just said it, it's a mere 17% dmg increase. Others are better for the CP spent, hence it's one of the worse.

You argue with anecdotes and good feelings, he argues with math. Both have it's place, question is where.

It's common to think that the Mephrit strat is special for Tesla since they prpc on 6+. This is not the case. Tesla output gets a flat 17% damage increase, doesn't matter what dice they proc at. Tesla in itself is not improved by the strat. Any weapon would have a flat 17% damage increase.

There is something to be said for it through. It does synergize with rerolls, ie if you have reroll to hit, we're looking at around 25% increase from the stratagem. That's because there is a bit of a chain reaction where failed hit rolls gets rerolled possibly into 6s and those new hits may miss and get a new reroll into a cascading increase in hit probability.

*No re-rolls: 1/6=16,7%
*Re-roll 1s: 1/6*7/6=19,4%
*Re-roll 1s and 2s: 1/6*8/6=22,2%

It should be noted that the increase is secondary to the actual value of firepower you're getting, increasing the damage of 5 Immortals by 50% is worse than increasing the firepower of 9 TBs by 17%. I don't think I've ever tried running Mephrit TBs with a Triarch Stalker, perhaps I'll try that.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/27 09:12:50


Post by: torblind


 vict0988 wrote:
torblind wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game


I'm not sure if you ever did this. But 9 Tesla Tomb blades with the Mephrit Stratgem backed by a Stalker for RR1s to hit produces a lot of dakka. E.g. roll 4 die, if you roll 2 6s then before the tesla activates you roll 2 more die then do the Tesla. I often got an extra 10-16 Tesla pops from that gem which did come in handy

You can also combo it with Destroyers and the EP gem to get more dakka from them.

Not sure why you say it's one of the worst Stratgems in the game. But you do you I guess.


Not sure why? He just said it, it's a mere 17% dmg increase. Others are better for the CP spent, hence it's one of the worse.

You argue with anecdotes and good feelings, he argues with math. Both have it's place, question is where.

It's common to think that the Mephrit strat is special for Tesla since they prpc on 6+. This is not the case. Tesla output gets a flat 17% damage increase, doesn't matter what dice they proc at. Tesla in itself is not improved by the strat. Any weapon would have a flat 17% damage increase.

There is something to be said for it through. It does synergize with rerolls, ie if you have reroll to hit, we're looking at around 25% increase from the stratagem. That's because there is a bit of a chain reaction where failed hit rolls gets rerolled possibly into 6s and those new hits may miss and get a new reroll into a cascading increase in hit probability.

*No re-rolls: 1/6=16,7%
*Re-roll 1s: 1/6*7/6=19,4%
*Re-roll 1s and 2s: 1/6*8/6=22,2%

It should be noted that the increase is secondary to the actual value of firepower you're getting, increasing the damage of 5 Immortals by 50% is worse than increasing the firepower of 9 TBs by 17%. I don't think I've ever tried running Mephrit TBs with a Triarch Stalker, perhaps I'll try that.


What about the rerolls that turn into 6s, spawning new hit rolls, that themselves get rerolls?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/27 10:20:03


Post by: vict0988


torblind wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
Spoiler:
torblind wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game


I'm not sure if you ever did this. But 9 Tesla Tomb blades with the Mephrit Stratgem backed by a Stalker for RR1s to hit produces a lot of dakka. E.g. roll 4 die, if you roll 2 6s then before the tesla activates you roll 2 more die then do the Tesla. I often got an extra 10-16 Tesla pops from that gem which did come in handy

You can also combo it with Destroyers and the EP gem to get more dakka from them.

Not sure why you say it's one of the worst Stratgems in the game. But you do you I guess.


Not sure why? He just said it, it's a mere 17% dmg increase. Others are better for the CP spent, hence it's one of the worse.

You argue with anecdotes and good feelings, he argues with math. Both have it's place, question is where.

It's common to think that the Mephrit strat is special for Tesla since they prpc on 6+. This is not the case. Tesla output gets a flat 17% damage increase, doesn't matter what dice they proc at. Tesla in itself is not improved by the strat. Any weapon would have a flat 17% damage increase.

There is something to be said for it through. It does synergize with rerolls, ie if you have reroll to hit, we're looking at around 25% increase from the stratagem. That's because there is a bit of a chain reaction where failed hit rolls gets rerolled possibly into 6s and those new hits may miss and get a new reroll into a cascading increase in hit probability.

*No re-rolls: 1/6=16,7%
*Re-roll 1s: 1/6*7/6=19,4%
*Re-roll 1s and 2s: 1/6*8/6=22,2%

It should be noted that the increase is secondary to the actual value of firepower you're getting, increasing the damage of 5 Immortals by 50% is worse than increasing the firepower of 9 TBs by 17%. I don't think I've ever tried running Mephrit TBs with a Triarch Stalker, perhaps I'll try that.


What about the rerolls that turn into 6s, spawning new hit rolls, that themselves get rerolls?

*360 shots
*60 1s are re-rolled via Triarch Stalker so you have a total of 420 hit rolls
*420/6=70 extra shots from the Mephrit Stratagem
*70 shots re-rolling ones is 28/36*70=54,4 hits
*360 shots re-rolling ones is 28/36*360=280 hits
*(280+54,4)/280=1,194
*19,4% increase in the number of hits from the Mephrit Stratagem.

*Re-rolling 1s and 2s (22,2%) applies to the Novokh + Crimson Haze combo, add the Novokh bonus on top for 33,3% and you're looking at doing 62,3% more damage than the baseline unit. If you apply fight twice, Anrakyr, Lord's Will and +1 S and you're looking at a 855,5% increase in damage against Knights compared to your baseline assuming you go from S7->S8.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/07 16:49:10


Post by: torblind


 vict0988 wrote:
torblind wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
Spoiler:
torblind wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
Mephrit does synergize with tesla, but not because of the Stratagem, that's one of the worst Stratagems in the game


I'm not sure if you ever did this. But 9 Tesla Tomb blades with the Mephrit Stratgem backed by a Stalker for RR1s to hit produces a lot of dakka. E.g. roll 4 die, if you roll 2 6s then before the tesla activates you roll 2 more die then do the Tesla. I often got an extra 10-16 Tesla pops from that gem which did come in handy

You can also combo it with Destroyers and the EP gem to get more dakka from them.

Not sure why you say it's one of the worst Stratgems in the game. But you do you I guess.


Not sure why? He just said it, it's a mere 17% dmg increase. Others are better for the CP spent, hence it's one of the worse.

You argue with anecdotes and good feelings, he argues with math. Both have it's place, question is where.

It's common to think that the Mephrit strat is special for Tesla since they prpc on 6+. This is not the case. Tesla output gets a flat 17% damage increase, doesn't matter what dice they proc at. Tesla in itself is not improved by the strat. Any weapon would have a flat 17% damage increase.

There is something to be said for it through. It does synergize with rerolls, ie if you have reroll to hit, we're looking at around 25% increase from the stratagem. That's because there is a bit of a chain reaction where failed hit rolls gets rerolled possibly into 6s and those new hits may miss and get a new reroll into a cascading increase in hit probability.

*No re-rolls: 1/6=16,7%
*Re-roll 1s: 1/6*7/6=19,4%
*Re-roll 1s and 2s: 1/6*8/6=22,2%

It should be noted that the increase is secondary to the actual value of firepower you're getting, increasing the damage of 5 Immortals by 50% is worse than increasing the firepower of 9 TBs by 17%. I don't think I've ever tried running Mephrit TBs with a Triarch Stalker, perhaps I'll try that.


What about the rerolls that turn into 6s, spawning new hit rolls, that themselves get rerolls?

*360 shots
*60 1s are re-rolled via Triarch Stalker so you have a total of 420 hit rolls
*420/6=70 extra shots from the Mephrit Stratagem
*70 shots re-rolling ones is 28/36*70=54,4 hits
*360 shots re-rolling ones is 28/36*360=280 hits
*(280+54,4)/280=1,194
*19,4% increase in the number of hits from the Mephrit Stratagem.

*Re-rolling 1s and 2s (22,2%) applies to the Novokh + Crimson Haze combo, add the Novokh bonus on top for 33,3% and you're looking at doing 62,3% more damage than the baseline unit. If you apply fight twice, Anrakyr, Lord's Will and +1 S and you're looking at a 855,5% increase in damage against Knights compared to your baseline assuming you go from S7->S8.


Yeah looks right. Simple simulations confirm it too.

Edit: simulation is here: http://dice-hammer.com/reroll-proc.xlsx


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/28 11:52:31


Post by: dapperbandit


Is there a way to use Nemesor Zahndrehk and Vargard Obyron's Ghostwalk Mantle against Space Marines without getting annihilated by Auspex Scan?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/28 11:08:18


Post by: vict0988


dapperbandit wrote:
Is there a way to use Nemesor Zahndrehk and Vargard Obyron's Ghostwalk Mantle against Space Marines without getting annihilated by Auspex Scan?

Stay more than 12" away from scary Infantry squads when you teleport.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/30 16:59:14


Post by: Slaul


Hi folks, any tips for a newcomer to Necrons?

I am buying a second-hand Necron army this afternoon and have no idea how to use any of it yet haha!

Spoiler:

40 Warriors
10 Tesla Immortals
Overlord
2 Cryptek
Catacomb Command Barge
2 Monoliths
Doomsday Ark
Ghost Ark
2 Spyder
3 Tomb Stalker
Doomscythe
Some tomb blades on sprue (not sure how many)
Some Scarabs
6 Wraiths
5 Death Marks


Is it possible to build a half decent starter list out of that? What would be the best next things to build into?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/30 19:09:48


Post by: KonTheory


Can this happen?
Imotekh uses his storm, rolls 2, he uses his 1 time warlord reroll, gets a 1... Can he then command reroll that?
Someone was saying you can only ever reroll a die once


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/30 19:13:23


Post by: p5freak


You can never re-roll a dice more than once.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/30 19:16:12


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


You used to be able to do that, but then it got FAQ'd out, iirc.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/30 19:16:59


Post by: KonTheory


Ok, that's good to know thank you... In the middle of a game and we are both new, trying to find rules on the fly is always difficult


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/30 19:30:20


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Slaul wrote:
Hi folks, any tips for a newcomer to Necrons?

I am buying a second-hand Necron army this afternoon and have no idea how to use any of it yet haha!

Spoiler:

40 Warriors
10 Tesla Immortals
Overlord
2 Cryptek
Catacomb Command Barge
2 Monoliths
Doomsday Ark
Ghost Ark
2 Spyder
3 Tomb Stalker
Doomscythe
Some tomb blades on sprue (not sure how many)
Some Scarabs
6 Wraiths
5 Death Marks


Is it possible to build a half decent starter list out of that? What would be the best next things to build into?


From what you have, you can start with warriors, ghost ark, overlord / CCB, cryptek and immortals as the core of your army.
2 small units of immortals, a ghost ark, warriors, an overlord and a cryptek should leave you enough points for some goodies whilst giving you a battalion. The cryptek and ghost ark should keep the warriors alive long enough for them to shoot up stuff once they get in range, and the ghost ark isn't too bad either. If you have the points, upgrade the overlord into a CCB. I use that as the core of my army (tons of warriors from 3rd ed, and not enough immortals) and it tends to be fine most of the time. It does annoy the hell out of my opponents when they fail to wipe out the warriors and about 50%-75% of them come back.
Or you can take the big unit of immortals and 2 min sized units of warriors, which would probably give you more damage output, but will be about 65pts more than 2 small units of immortals + 20 warriors.

Now for the goodies...
Its a pity you don't have destroyers, as they are one of the biggest sources of damage in a necron army. However, you do have a DDA and tomb blades, which are the next best thing.

Spyders, deathmarks and monoliths are pointless. Waste of points. You could do double monoliths for funsies, but then you won't have enough points for anything else, and will probably lose them when they arrive because of their abysmal deep strike rules. Whoever decided to give the monolith hovering + 12" minimal deepstrike range must have had Vietnam style flashback of them in 3rd ed, because they are tactically useless with that combination.
Now, those 3 units might be useful at some point if GW ever decides to think things through with necrons for once, but right now they are just pretty shelve decorations. Nothing wrong with that, mind you, collection is a part of the hobby, they just aren't that good in game currently.

Doomscythe could work, but you will have to go Sautekh in order to make the most out of the deathray, because for some stupid reason it can't move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty. This problem isn't unique to necrons, but to all flyers.

Now, you do have scarabs and wraiths, which is great, as that can form the basis of a decent Novokh or Nephrekh list. Abuse Adaptive Subroutines and you can get some juicy charges that could take your opponent by surprise, especially with nephrekh.
Even if you don't go for those factions, scarabs are still nice to have as they make good screens and objective grabbers. Wraiths are pretty handy too, but they are expensive so you might have to struggle with points.

When you say tomb stalker, do you mean the Triarch Stalker or the actual FW unit? I don't have much experience with either of those anyway, so I can't really say. The weapon options and rerolls that a Triarch Stalker brings are nice I guess, and I suppose the tomb stalker could work with novokh or nephrekh.
I kind of hope that those are tomb stalkers you are talking about, because then you can make a nice little Canoptek melee list. Which might not be competitive, but should be fun as hell to play.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/31 15:05:09


Post by: Slaul


Thanks so much for the information!

I believe the tomb stalkers are actually triarch stalkers.

It sounds like my best bet for investing into necrons would be to pick up a couple boxes of destroyers and maybe some more immortals. Probably another doomsday ark or two as well.

It looks like the lot I bought also has some Praetorian on sprue. Not sure how many yet, still sorting through everything!



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/18 13:13:41


Post by: Virules


Although I have a small Necron army, I mainly play Chaos. I haven't run into Necrons at tournaments yet. What do I do versus the triple doomscythe, triple doomsday ark lists that are now popular?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/31 16:34:56


Post by: p5freak


You die ?

Against quantum shielding any D2 weapon is effective, because the necron player needs to roll a 1, or a 2 if he uses quantum deflection. Necrons are helpless against psychic powers, smite them. Try to charge the DDA, it cant use its doomsday cannon with high power profile when it moves in the necron players turn. Any anti air tactic works against doom scythes.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/31 19:07:50


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Keep in mind though that the low power profile still hurts like hell. If you engage it with a vehicle it might be able to shrug it off though.
If it falls back it will also suffer -1 to hit due to the heavy weapons penalty UNLESS he's running Sautekh.

Flyers are flyers. Zone them off the table. They can only move in a straight line and turn 90 degrees at the start of their movement. If you flood the board with screens you can probably push them off the table. Either that or just shoot the crap out of them with heavy weapons. Necron flyers don't have quantum shielding, so lascannons hurt them.

You're probably going to have more trouble with DDA, as they are the better units.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/31 19:31:21


Post by: Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll


The fun thing about DDA's is that even at close range they always have the firepower of 10 warriors to add to their low-power profile. While they're BEST firing from far away with high-power, they're still pretty brutal right up in close. This also gives them some flexibility if there are no appropriate targets for high-power shots.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/08/31 19:48:22


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Yeah, the arks have some surprisingly nice close range damage output.
Warriors + Ghost Ark actually have some good anti-infantry firepower. Its just that compared to tesla immortals + MWBD its not quite as cost effective, though I could be wrong.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/01 19:41:33


Post by: sieGermans


Is there something I’m missing which prohibits Destroyers from riding in Night Scythes?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/01 20:46:16


Post by: vict0988


Bad idea, but legal.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/01 21:55:43


Post by: IanVanCheese


sieGermans wrote:Is there something I’m missing which prohibits Destroyers from riding in Night Scythes?


vict0988 wrote:Bad idea, but legal.


Hmmmm, maybe not. I mean yeah, the Night Scythe is gonna die, but it protects them turn 1, at least until the transport is popped.

If it dies, just pop the strat and disembark them. I guess the real annoyance is that if it doesn't die, they still can't get out until turn 2.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/02 06:25:49


Post by: dapperbandit


Destroyers are one of the few units that don't need to be in any particular Dynasty to be good.

So you're better off making them Nephrekh then paying a CP to put a squad in Translocation Crpyt than investing valuable points in an imperfect solution like a Night Scythe


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/02 06:59:10


Post by: sieGermans


IanVanCheese wrote:
sieGermans wrote:Is there something I’m missing which prohibits Destroyers from riding in Night Scythes?


vict0988 wrote:Bad idea, but legal.


Hmmmm, maybe not. I mean yeah, the Night Scythe is gonna die, but it protects them turn 1, at least until the transport is popped.

If it dies, just pop the strat and disembark them. I guess the real annoyance is that if it doesn't die, they still can't get out until turn 2.


There are two things I’m working on here (haven’t solved it just yet):

1. CP are expensive for Necrons. A CP costs us about, and at least 130 points. Accordingly, putting Destroyers into Nephrek and CP deep striking them costs about the same as a Night Scythe.

2. I’m trying to leverage the unique de-coupled aspect of Necron transports that any of them can disembark anything in reserve. If built correctly this should allow you to use them as Swiss Army knives (kinda like old drop pods) and to protect your most essential units.

This requires that you field multiple and that you have different tools available for each purpose... the latter of which is a bit difficult for us since we don’t have a lot of options in our infantry.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/02 07:41:39


Post by: p5freak


Infantry :

Anrakyr
Imotekh
Szeras
Vargard
Orikan
Trazyn
Overlord
Lord
Cryptek
Destroyer lord
Deathmarks
Flayed ones
Lychguard
Praetorians
Destroyers
Immortals
Warriors

Really not a lot of options for infantry.

The real problem is that night scythes arent viable. You are paying 135 pts. for a unit which does pretty much nothing T1, except for killing some chaff models. You may even lose it, if you dont get first turn. You can only "disembark" one unit per turn, two if you spend 1CP. Which is ridiculous, i dont know any other transport which has that restriction of disembarking only one unit. At that point you may as well spend the CP to put the unit in a translocation crypt. You need more than one scythe, if you have lots of units on the tomb world, because you can only set up one unit with a stratagem when all scythes are destroyed.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/02 08:28:04


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Or save a CP and use a veil, which you should always have anyway. It may be one use only, but its still a very good relic, and you only really need to use it once.
I've used the night scythe a few times, and I have made the following observations -

1) Flyer movement rules are crap
2) Necron flyers are surprisingly fragile.

I have yet to play a game where the night scythe survives until the end of the game, unlike my other necron vehicles.
I might as well use a veil to get gauss immortals / lychguard in position.

Locking the translocation crypt to nephrekh is dumb and gak design. It should be made available to all factions, and nephrekh should get something that actually seems unique instead of a piece of tech that you'd think all necrons would have access to anyway.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/02 08:43:16


Post by: dapperbandit


If you had sufficient priority threats like T1 Charging wraiths, destroyers, veil of darkness teleported warriors it could be fun to send up 3 Night Scythes with some stuff like Lychguard on the tomb world.

If your opponent only aims for the Night Scythes its game over but providing they're intimidated by the destroyers and wraiths, you'll have at least one left to unload stuff into their lines direct


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/02 09:48:06


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


So I've been thinking - is it worth taking an Overlord if you don't have a bunch of tesla immortals on hand? I'm wondering if it might be better to go double cryptek for RP covering, instead of the Overlord + Cryptek configuration I usually do.
Keep in mind that I have only 5 tesla immortals.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/02 14:58:33


Post by: IanVanCheese


It depends. +1 to hit on a 20 warrior blob isn't to be sniffed at. Likewise with Lords, that reroll 1 to wound bubble is solid.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/02 17:10:19


Post by: p5freak


dapperbandit wrote:
If you had sufficient priority threats like T1 Charging wraiths, destroyers, veil of darkness teleported warriors it could be fun to send up 3 Night Scythes with some stuff like Lychguard on the tomb world.


Its gonna be fun for your opponent because you are wasting 135x3 pts. Those night scythes shouldnt cost more than 70.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/02 17:46:39


Post by: vict0988


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So I've been thinking - is it worth taking an Overlord if you don't have a bunch of tesla immortals on hand? I'm wondering if it might be better to go double cryptek for RP covering, instead of the Overlord + Cryptek configuration I usually do.
Keep in mind that I have only 5 tesla immortals.

What does your average list look like?

Overlords are great for maxed out units of Lychguard and Tesla Immortals, Destroyers as well against Aeldari or flyers.

CCBs are are great in the same situations as Overlords if your opponent brings a bunch of assassins or snipers.

Cloakteks are great if you have at least one 200+ pt unit and a couple of vehicles. Chronoteks are great if you have at least one big unit of Scytheguard or Warriors.

Lords are great if you can fit 800+ pts worth of Infantry units within his aura after other modifiers. So Tesla Immortals count 1,5x if you have an Overlord that can MWBD them.

Destroyer Lords are great if you don't have any great options.

So do you usually run those 5x Teslamortals in an Outrider or as part of a Battalion with 40 Warriors? I can see a situation where I'd want a second Cryptek to babysit Destroyers and/or Tomb Blades and one dedicated for my Warriors, but I'd say the need for a Cryptek is rare and 2 Crypteks even more rare.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/02 18:11:00


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


The exact contents tend to change around a lot because I don't like playing the same list twice in a row, but generally speaking its a single battalion consisting of a big squad of warriors, a GA, and 2 units of immortals. One tesla, one gauss. Because that's what I have on hand. For HQs its usually a cloaktek and an overlord.

Usually have destroyers because those are my favorite, ever since 3rd, and there will be typically scarabs.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/03 04:55:16


Post by: elook


Night Scythes are really unnecessary. If you want to save your Destroyers, either place them at the back of the field (out of range) or behind los blocking terrain. Then use the Veil of Darkness to put them in an effective spot.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/03 09:25:19


Post by: tneva82


 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
The fun thing about DDA's is that even at close range they always have the firepower of 10 warriors to add to their low-power profile. While they're BEST firing from far away with high-power, they're still pretty brutal right up in close. This also gives them some flexibility if there are no appropriate targets for high-power shots.


Yeah I have had success using dda as assault boat rather than sniper when there's no vehicle targets to shoot(or the ones that are near dead). The flayers are surprisingly useful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Or save a CP and use a veil, which you should always have anyway. It may be one use only, but its still a very good relic, and you only really need to use it once.


I rarely want to use veil in first turn though. It's more useful generally to bail tripointed squad out of combat so I can actually shoot at the enemy. Albeit lack of good counter charge unit is big reason for that. But without either unit to counter charge or veil it's basically bye bye if good h2h unit gets into my lines with enough bodies as they will be locked in combat from there on thus unshootable.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/03 09:33:16


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Aren't Lychguard a counter charge unit? I find they do have some decent output, its just they are too slow to be used that well offensively.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/03 09:39:45


Post by: tneva82


Yeah. I just don't have them every time. Especially as they are soft and if they don't have warscythes(with them they are so soft they die when somebody says "boo") also rather low in damage output. Nothing like spending 3 combat phase trying to clear one stinking marine support character. 1 attack just doesn't cut it and good AP is pretty irrelevant in age of "if you want to have any survivivability you have inv save".


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/03 09:41:09


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Lychguard have 2 attacks though.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/03 10:26:02


Post by: IHateNids


2 Atacks each at S6 AP3 D1 still isnt bad, given the platform has T5 3+/4++/RP


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/03 20:09:22


Post by: tneva82


So basically 4++ and every fail will take expensive model. Rp is good on smaller games but 2k rp is negated too easily. And d1 isn't that hot. Ap3 is nice except in practice against cc threats no real difference between ap1 or ap3. Inv save is same anyway.

I try and try but they struggle with marine melee threats and those aren't even biggest worry to begin with. Face actual threat and even if they survive(unlikely seeing how soft for points they are) they are outclassed. Destroyers are much better threat.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/03 22:06:03


Post by: Shaelinith


Yeah the Sword lychguard would need to have some armies playing expensive, one wound, high armor, no invulnerable (or fnp) units to have some interest.
Non primaris/non stormshield marines so basically ... Devastator squads/havoc squad ? These don't come for you. And i doubt you will handle Berserkers well with lychguard. Even rubrics have an invulnerable save.
They would be good Tau killers, but good luck bringing them alive on melee. I tried, it didn't end well.
Almost everything they do, wraiths does better.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/03 22:44:14


Post by: IHateNids


They also have 2 wounds and can bodyblock for your characters, which is nice


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/03 23:59:35


Post by: Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll


What character is worth spending that number of points body-blocking? Lychguard aren't worth points unless they can get into close combat, and most character that they'd want to be guarding want to be far from close combat!


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/04 01:29:21


Post by: iGuy91


 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
What character is worth spending that number of points body-blocking? Lychguard aren't worth points unless they can get into close combat, and most character that they'd want to be guarding want to be far from close combat!


lmao isn't that the truth. Our characters are probably some of the worst, and most overpriced in the game.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/04 07:07:24


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
What character is worth spending that number of points body-blocking? Lychguard aren't worth points unless they can get into close combat, and most character that they'd want to be guarding want to be far from close combat!


Eh, could be useful against snipers or sneaky flyers.
It would be nice if lychguard had heroic intervention though so they can be more effective counter chargers. Kind of surprised they don't already.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/04 08:55:34


Post by: dapperbandit


 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
What character is worth spending that number of points body-blocking? Lychguard aren't worth points unless they can get into close combat, and most character that they'd want to be guarding want to be far from close combat!


I'd probably do it for Imotekh


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/04 10:50:12


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


I had a game vs harlequins where my opponent went to great lengths to get a Solitaire through my lines and into combat with my HQs, only to discover that the Lychguards ability made it all futile. I laughed.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/04 13:13:37


Post by: KonTheory


If I'm playing against eldar, MWBD makes tesla hit good on 5+, but if I'm more than 12" away does it go back up to 6?



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/04 13:22:29


Post by: iGuy91


 KonTheory wrote:
If I'm playing against eldar, MWBD makes tesla hit good on 5+, but if I'm more than 12" away does it go back up to 6?



If they were playing Craftworld Alaitoc, then yes, outside of 12 inches, they are -1 to hit, which your +1 to hit from MWBD will counteract, allowing your tesla to still proc.

I also enjoy using MWBD to allow Nephrehk Immortals to advance (moving 12 inches) and still proc tesla as normal vs gunline armies.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/04 13:38:24


Post by: wuestenfux


dapperbandit wrote:
Destroyers are one of the few units that don't need to be in any particular Dynasty to be good.

So you're better off making them Nephrekh then paying a CP to put a squad in Translocation Crpyt than investing valuable points in an imperfect solution like a Night Scythe

Well, I'd combine the Destroyers ab initio with a Destroyer Lord.
But not every has his combo.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/05 08:10:41


Post by: elook


I'd argue to say that Obryon would be somewhat decent in Combat. So using Zhandrekh to teleport/deepstrike with Gauss/Tesla Immortals, then using Obryon and Lychguard to teleport to Zhandrekh (and closer than 9" to enemies) for an easier charge would be effective. Still the issue comes down to points. If the next CA drops the points of our HQ along with Lychguard, then this would be a tactic I'd like to try.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/05 08:52:22


Post by: dapperbandit


It's a tactic I'd still like to try. It's undeniably expensive, but also one of the surest ways to deliver Lychguard into combat turn one.

Between the smackdown Lychguard can do to MEQ, elites and vehicles and Nemesor's Counter Tactics shutting down one character's auras it's a great way to disrupt enemy castles.

An underrated benefit of Nemesor Zahndrehk is he can give your melee units an additional attack making Lychguard even better.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/05 09:23:29


Post by: IHateNids


I have considered using the Deciever to redeploy a Monolith, pull Zahndrek through to that, and then TP Oby on top of that

then your opponent has a massive vanguard force in his face while the gunline of Tesla Immortals sits on your friendly objectives

if you wanted to be maximum troll, you can also (in the same turn if I'm not mistaken):
- Pull a guy with VoD through the monolith
- Grab Oby & Jump him back to the other end of the board
- use Oby again to grab another unit and add to the forward forces, like a unit of Guass Immortals or something shooty

its very expensive, but it's a good laugh of a lsit


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/05 10:12:28


Post by: Odrankt


You could just Deceiver Zahndrekh and then use Obyron and VoD on a different character to teleport 2 10 Lychguard.

There's no need for the Monolith. You could get 2 DDA for those points


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/05 13:17:34


Post by: IHateNids


Yes, I am awae you could get two DDAs for that price

but, if you are intentionally runnign a load of Lychguard to do this kind of tactic, it is not exactly a serious list, so there's no reaosn you couldnt use a Monolith

Worth it for the staying factor in a casual game, much like a Land Raider


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/05 13:59:32


Post by: torblind


 IHateNids wrote:
Yes, I am awae you could get two DDAs for that price

but, if you are intentionally runnign a load of Lychguard to do this kind of tactic, it is not exactly a serious list, so there's no reaosn you couldnt use a Monolith

Worth it for the staying factor in a casual game, much like a Land Raider


Deceiver the Monolith and Zahndrekh, pull 10 lychguard through the Monolith (3" ahead, + 5" move) for a 4" charge, advance Zahnrdek and then Ghostmantle Obyron with another 10 lychguard for a too close to fail charge. Save the Veil for emergency teleportation of Zahndrekh and ghostmantling surviving LG wherever they need to go, (or use it right away if you rolll a 1 for the Deceiver). Did this once, with maximum luck on relevant dice rolls, against a solid AM gun line, and pulled off a nice victory. He was busy with lychguard for 3 turns, killed the monolith on the 4th turn, and was too far behind on points to catch back up on remaining turns.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/05 19:03:07


Post by: Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll


I did a Deceiver + Zahndrekh + VoD combo, which was a risk because I didn't win first turn. Worked out though, luckily their shooting dropped my cheap VoD holder but not my Zahndrekh, and they forgot to disembark their screen to protect their Repulsor, so the Scytheguard dismantled that, then dismantled the screen, then died pretty quick after that. Zahndrekh himself hid in a corner.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/05 21:41:34


Post by: IHateNids


I'd be happy to GI Mono & Zahndy, just hesitant to rely on that many on the GI roll, y'know?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/05 22:06:57


Post by: torblind


 IHateNids wrote:
I'd be happy to GI Mono & Zahndy, just hesitant to rely on that many on the GI roll, y'know?


sure, can't rely on that. also it sucks going second, its all just for occasional fun, really


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/06 03:22:25


Post by: Pyrothem


Be careful when trying this out. When you veil or Mono shuffle big Z he is open to being shot off the board with a Forwarn or Auspecs scan.... sad times.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/06 05:47:09


Post by: vict0988


The Mephrit Stratagem is far better than I imagined due to a weird FAQ from the SM Codex.

Q. If an ability or rule generates an additional hit, (e.g. the
Imperial Siege Masters Chapter Tactic), do these additional hits
gain any other benefits that would apply to an attack on a hit
roll of 6 (e.g. an Infiltrator’s marksman bolt carbine)?
A: Yes, the additional hits are treated as having rolled
the same value as the dice roll that generated them.

When you roll an unmodified 6 to hit with Tesla you inflict 3 hits instead of 1 assuming you are not -1 to hit. Those extra hits are also treated as having rolled 6s, so if you use Talent for Annihilation you get 3 extra shots, not 1. That's 50% more shots, 58,3% more if you are shooting at a target that has been marked by a Triarch Stalker. Which is somewhere between okay and pretty busted instead of horrible to okay.

Triarch Stalker w. 2x HGC shoots at a Knight, it pops 4++ and suffers 1,6 wounds. 9 Tesla TBs w. Mephrit Code fire 36 shots into it at RF range and pop Talent for Annihilation. 21 extra shots from Talent for Annihilation, that's 47 shots, 54,8 hits, 18,3 4+ invul saves, 9,1 unsaved wounds. 10,7 unsaved wounds in total. That's as good a rate as you're going to get with pretty much any army. 25% less damage from the TBs at long range, at which point you might as well have them be Sautekh, they only really do anything special at RF range.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/06 06:53:33


Post by: p5freak


 vict0988 wrote:
The Mephrit Stratagem is far better than I imagined due to a weird FAQ from the SM Codex.

Q. If an ability or rule generates an additional hit, (e.g. the
Imperial Siege Masters Chapter Tactic), do these additional hits
gain any other benefits that would apply to an attack on a hit
roll of 6 (e.g. an Infiltrator’s marksman bolt carbine)?
A: Yes, the additional hits are treated as having rolled
the same value as the dice roll that generated them.

When you roll an unmodified 6 to hit with Tesla you inflict 3 hits instead of 1 assuming you are not -1 to hit. Those extra hits are also treated as having rolled 6s, so if you use Talent for Annihilation you get 3 extra shots, not 1. That's 50% more shots, 58,3% more if you are shooting at a target that has been marked by a Triarch Stalker. Which is somewhere between okay and pretty busted instead of horrible to okay.

Triarch Stalker w. 2x HGC shoots at a Knight, it pops 4++ and suffers 1,6 wounds. 9 Tesla TBs w. Mephrit Code fire 36 shots into it at RF range and pop Talent for Annihilation. 21 extra shots from Talent for Annihilation, that's 47 shots, 54,8 hits, 18,3 4+ invul saves, 9,1 unsaved wounds. 10,7 unsaved wounds in total. That's as good a rate as you're going to get with pretty much any army. 25% less damage from the TBs at long range, at which point you might as well have them be Sautekh, they only really do anything special at RF range.



That FAQ is nonsense, and should be ignored, because it breaks the game. Tesla will do an infinite amount of hits, because every 6 will do 3 additional 6s, which then will do 18 additional hits, because all are 6s, etc. This will go on infinitely. You will never determine the number of hits, you are stuck, and never get to the next step which is wound rolls. There is a thread about this in YMDC.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/06 07:32:43


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 p5freak wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
The Mephrit Stratagem is far better than I imagined due to a weird FAQ from the SM Codex.

Q. If an ability or rule generates an additional hit, (e.g. the
Imperial Siege Masters Chapter Tactic), do these additional hits
gain any other benefits that would apply to an attack on a hit
roll of 6 (e.g. an Infiltrator’s marksman bolt carbine)?
A: Yes, the additional hits are treated as having rolled
the same value as the dice roll that generated them.

When you roll an unmodified 6 to hit with Tesla you inflict 3 hits instead of 1 assuming you are not -1 to hit. Those extra hits are also treated as having rolled 6s, so if you use Talent for Annihilation you get 3 extra shots, not 1. That's 50% more shots, 58,3% more if you are shooting at a target that has been marked by a Triarch Stalker. Which is somewhere between okay and pretty busted instead of horrible to okay.

Triarch Stalker w. 2x HGC shoots at a Knight, it pops 4++ and suffers 1,6 wounds. 9 Tesla TBs w. Mephrit Code fire 36 shots into it at RF range and pop Talent for Annihilation. 21 extra shots from Talent for Annihilation, that's 47 shots, 54,8 hits, 18,3 4+ invul saves, 9,1 unsaved wounds. 10,7 unsaved wounds in total. That's as good a rate as you're going to get with pretty much any army. 25% less damage from the TBs at long range, at which point you might as well have them be Sautekh, they only really do anything special at RF range.



That FAQ is nonsense, and should be ignored, because it breaks the game. Tesla will do an infinite amount of hits, because every 6 will do 3 additional 6s, which then will do 18 additional hits, because all are 6s, etc. This will go on infinitely. You will never determine the number of hits, you are stuck, and never get to the next step which is wound rolls. There is a thread about this in YMDC.


Except it the stratagem says that those extra shots cannot generate hit rolls of their own. Its not infinite.
GW should still be asked for clarification though.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/06 07:43:49


Post by: p5freak


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except it the stratagem says that those extra shots cannot generate hit rolls of their own. Its not infinite.
GW should still be asked for clarification though.


Tesla alone generates infinite hits, no need for that stratagem.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/06 07:50:34


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 p5freak wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except it the stratagem says that those extra shots cannot generate hit rolls of their own. Its not infinite.
GW should still be asked for clarification though.


Tesla alone generates infinite hits, no need for that stratagem.


But you get more tesla hits with that stratagem


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/06 08:13:16


Post by: vict0988


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except it the stratagem says that those extra shots cannot generate hit rolls of their own. Its not infinite.
GW should still be asked for clarification though.


Tesla alone generates infinite hits, no need for that stratagem.


But you get more tesla hits with that stratagem

He is implying that if you roll a 6 then you have in fact rolled 3 6s so you have in fact rolled 7 6s so you have in fact rolled 19 6s. I think playing it as 50% extra shots is reasonable given the FAQ I posted, but I agree that it should be removed. Just like being able to roll 0 with the Quantum Reflection Stratagem.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/06 11:50:17


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


dapperbandit wrote:
It's a tactic I'd still like to try. It's undeniably expensive, but also one of the surest ways to deliver Lychguard into combat turn one.

Between the smackdown Lychguard can do to MEQ, elites and vehicles and Nemesor's Counter Tactics shutting down one character's auras it's a great way to disrupt enemy castles.

An underrated benefit of Nemesor Zahndrehk is he can give your melee units an additional attack making Lychguard even better.


I've made some extensive posts on this subject before, but I think there are essentially 2 sensible ways to teleport Lychguard into combat:

1: An Overlord with the Veil of Darkness Relic, and re-roll charges Warlord Trait.

Only costs 87pts (plus your WL + Relic), put MWBD on the Lychguard and teleport for an 8" rerollable charge. IIRC it gives about a 75% chance of a successful charge.


2: Zhanrek + Obyron + Overlord with the Veil.

The Overlord Veils Zhandrek, and Obyron Ghostwalks the Lychguard to Zhandrek for a pretty much guaranteed charge. This is obviously very expensive, but you can include these units in a list without committing to this tactic, and only use it when the payoff makes it worthwhile.


The Deceiver is only worth it if you go first which means it's not a sensible option.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/06 12:29:55


Post by: torblind


 vict0988 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except it the stratagem says that those extra shots cannot generate hit rolls of their own. Its not infinite.
GW should still be asked for clarification though.


Tesla alone generates infinite hits, no need for that stratagem.


But you get more tesla hits with that stratagem

He is implying that if you roll a 6 then you have in fact rolled 3 6s so you have in fact rolled 7 6s so you have in fact rolled 19 6s. I think playing it as 50% extra shots is reasonable given the FAQ I posted, but I agree that it should be removed. Just like being able to roll 0 with the Quantum Reflection Stratagem.


Now for added bookkeeping fun, if you first MWBD your immortals (as one does), you only get 3 additional hit rolls for the 6s, not the 5s.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/06 13:40:27


Post by: vict0988


torblind wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
Spoiler:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Except it the stratagem says that those extra shots cannot generate hit rolls of their own. Its not infinite.
GW should still be asked for clarification though.


Tesla alone generates infinite hits, no need for that stratagem.


But you get more tesla hits with that stratagem

He is implying that if you roll a 6 then you have in fact rolled 3 6s so you have in fact rolled 7 6s so you have in fact rolled 19 6s. I think playing it as 50% extra shots is reasonable given the FAQ I posted, but I agree that it should be removed. Just like being able to roll 0 with the Quantum Reflection Stratagem.


Now for added bookkeeping fun, if you first MWBD your immortals (as one does), you only get 3 additional hit rolls for the 6s, not the 5s.

You roll 20 hit rolls, get 3 sixes. Roll 9 new hit rolls to the side. Remove 1s and 2s, add 2 hits for every 5/6 in each batch and combine the batches. All these kinds of things, like FNP could've been replaced with more elegant rules and Stratagems. +1 to wound rolls would have been super easy.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/08 05:47:09


Post by: xenoterracide


Hi, I'm working on a Necron list for playing n00bs ( I haven't played necrons before so I should be a natural). I have forgebane, looking at grabbing Getting Started, debating on getting the apocalypse box (my heart says yes, but my brain says... n00bs caleb you don't need a bunch of vehicles, on the other hand... what are the odds this someday I evolve this beyond n00bs).

Questions.
What codes (factions) are good? maybe it's all but I'm debating based on paint scheme, on the other hand maybe I'll paint sauhtek and who but other necron players would notice.

Should I get the Apoc box? (is it actually worth it? the CSM one was barely, and only because it was $10 cheaper than buying 3 boxes of marines did I get it)

Any commentary on my list?
Anything else I should know/think about before starting to build necrons?

Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [60 PL, 999pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Overlord [6 PL, 87pts]: Hyperphase Sword

+ Troops +

Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 110pts]: 10x Necron Warrior

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 110pts]: 10x Necron Warrior

+ Elites +

Deathmarks [5 PL, 85pts]: 5x Deathmark

Lychguard [8 PL, 140pts]: 5x Lychguard, Warscythe

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Wraiths [9 PL, 144pts]
. 3x Canoptek Wraith

Destroyers [3 PL, 50pts]
. Destroyer: Gauss Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Annihilation Barge [8 PL, 113pts]: Tesla Cannon

++ Total: [60 PL, 999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/08 06:48:31


Post by: vict0988


xenoterracide wrote:
Hi, I'm working on a Necron list for playing n00bs ( I haven't played necrons before so I should be a natural). I have forgebane, looking at grabbing Getting Started, debating on getting the apocalypse box (my heart says yes, but my brain says... n00bs caleb you don't need a bunch of vehicles, on the other hand... what are the odds this someday I evolve this beyond n00bs).

Questions.
What codes (factions) are good? maybe it's all but I'm debating based on paint scheme, on the other hand maybe I'll paint sauhtek and who but other necron players would notice.

Should I get the Apoc box? (is it actually worth it? the CSM one was barely, and only because it was $10 cheaper than buying 3 boxes of marines did I get it)

Any commentary on my list?
Anything else I should know/think about before starting to build necrons?

Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [60 PL, 999pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Overlord [6 PL, 87pts]: Hyperphase Sword

+ Troops +

Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 110pts]: 10x Necron Warrior

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 110pts]: 10x Necron Warrior

+ Elites +

Deathmarks [5 PL, 85pts]: 5x Deathmark

Lychguard [8 PL, 140pts]: 5x Lychguard, Warscythe

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Wraiths [9 PL, 144pts]
. 3x Canoptek Wraith

Destroyers [3 PL, 50pts]
. Destroyer: Gauss Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Annihilation Barge [8 PL, 113pts]: Tesla Cannon

++ Total: [60 PL, 999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

All our value boxes are okay, Lychguard are pretty terrible as a 5-man unit, I'd make sure you lock down a really good sale/trade for the Mechanicus portion of the box before you buy it since the Lychguard are useless outside 30-man gimmick lists or in casual games and even then you'll probably want 10 to raise the chances of you getting Reanimation Protocols. Warriors are not the best choice in units of 10, I feel like you need at least 5 more Immortals so you can run a unit of 20 Warriors and 2x5 Tesla Immortals. Gauss blasters are kind of gak atm, I recommend you put Tesla on your Immortals at the very least and it's probably best if you also put tesla on any Tomb Blades you get.

Sautekh is good if you want to bring Unique characters since they have most of the Necron Unique characters, they are also good if you have a lot of shooting. You need a certain amount of Sautekh shooting units before their Stratagem makes sense, but when it does it's devastating. It's our most common Dynasty in tournament lists, the Code is useless to most of our units, but it's good for Doomsday Arks and Doom Scythes which are common in tournament play.

Mephrit is good for RF and AP- shooting units, if you just have a small Battalion or an Outrider with some Tomb Blades and you don't have at least 1000 pts you can make into Sautekh then Mephrit is your backup choice.

Nihilakh is good for Doomsday Arks, Gauss Pylons, Sentry Pylons and Titanic units. Nihilakh is okay for Wraiths and Lychguard with shields. Nihilakh is pretty terrible for other units.

Nephrekh is great for Canoptek units and Destroyers, okay for units with Assault weapons. Mostly we see Nephrekh taken for Outrider Detachments.

Novokh is great for Canoptek units and Lychguard, it's okay for Troops if you're bringing Anrakyr, but it's generally useless for most of our Shooting units.

I'd recommend you build Sautekh or Mephrit, Novokh can steamroll newbs because they don't have the first clue about how to play against melee armies, Nihilakh is pretty much the get carried by your Doomsday Arks or die subfaction which isn't great. Nephrekh is too explosive in terms of first turn charges and relying on various Stratagems to be fun.

The Veil of Darkness is our best relic by far IMO, it's super versatile and a lot of fun to use, I also think it helps capture some the Necron feel because Monoliths and Night Scythes aren't great options ATM so it's our best mobility option outside Nephrekh.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/08 08:39:24


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Small units of shield guard are only good for absorbing wounds for characters if your opponent manages to get to them. Otherwise they are a bit useless. They are really expensive for what they are. CA did help them a little, but they are still 28 points each.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/08 16:24:27


Post by: Odrankt


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
dapperbandit wrote:
It's a tactic I'd still like to try. It's undeniably expensive, but also one of the surest ways to deliver Lychguard into combat turn one.

Between the smackdown Lychguard can do to MEQ, elites and vehicles and Nemesor's Counter Tactics shutting down one character's auras it's a great way to disrupt enemy castles.

An underrated benefit of Nemesor Zahndrehk is he can give your melee units an additional attack making Lychguard even better.


I've made some extensive posts on this subject before, but I think there are essentially 2 sensible ways to teleport Lychguard into combat:
Spoiler:


1: An Overlord with the Veil of Darkness Relic, and re-roll charges Warlord Trait.

Only costs 87pts (plus your WL + Relic), put MWBD on the Lychguard and teleport for an 8" rerollable charge. IIRC it gives about a 75% chance of a successful charge.


2: Zhanrek + Obyron + Overlord with the Veil.

The Overlord Veils Zhandrek, and Obyron Ghostwalks the Lychguard to Zhandrek for a pretty much guaranteed charge. This is obviously very expensive, but you can include these units in a list without committing to this tactic, and only use it when the payoff makes it worthwhile.


The Deceiver is only worth it if you go first which means it's not a sensible option.



Imo, it's better to use the Cryptek then it is an Overlord. As Zahndrekh already gives MWBD and Cryptek will give 4+ RP. And it can take the re-roll charge Warlord trait as well.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/08 19:07:12


Post by: xenoterracide


 vict0988 wrote:

All our value boxes are okay, Lychguard are pretty terrible as a 5-man unit, I'd make sure you lock down a really good sale/trade for the Mechanicus portion of the box before you buy it since the Lychguard are useless outside 30-man gimmick lists or in casual games and even then you'll probably want 10 to raise the chances of you getting Reanimation Protocols.

well I already have forgebane, part of how I got to this list, I took inventory of the models I had, and the models I would get if I did start collecting.

Warriors are not the best choice in units of 10, I feel like you need at least 5 more Immortals so you can run a unit of 20 Warriors and 2x5 Tesla Immortals. Gauss blasters are kind of gak atm, I recommend you put Tesla on your Immortals at the very least and it's probably best if you also put tesla on any Tomb Blades you get.

I'm guessing deathmarks aren't so good so I converted them to immortals. What does "gak" mean? context suggests bad. Though tesla carbines look like they're for clearing chaff (and if I go sautek, I don't really need the assault factor).

So lychguard, are you better off taking the sword and shield? or the warsythe? ( I may not use them right now, and get a second destroyer, but, if I build them...)
the annihilation barge, should I build the command barge instead? what do people run as HQs.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/08 19:24:01


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


DakkaDakka has a built in language filter that changes cursewords into other words.
Gak is Dakka's version of excrement.

If you are running warscythes, you'll need 10. 5 is too flimsy, as they don't have an invul.
Sword and board can get away with being in units of 5, but then they are pretty much stuck in guard duty as their damage output isn't great.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/08 20:44:40


Post by: Odrankt


Could run a Cryptek with chronometron bc for 5++ against shooting or use Orikan if you want to do the Zahndrekh bus.

Ghost Arks w/ Zahndrekh, Orikan inside, Deceiver the ark, disembark whenever it's your turn, move + advance both Zahndrekh and Orikan then GWM Obyron and 10 Scytheguard.

Kinda expensive to do but if your playing 1k and it's for fun then that list is pretty fun.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 15:20:13


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


So uh, I played against the new obliterators for the first time.
They pretty much one shot my destroyers off the table. Granted, the destroyers were down to half strength because RP is unreliable, but it doesn't matter because CSM can use a stratagem to get units to shoot twice.

Any advice on counter play? Other than spam more destroyers and hope the DDA fires more than 1 shot per round?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 15:29:47


Post by: xenoterracide


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So uh, I played against the new obliterators for the first time.
They pretty much one shot my destroyers off the table. Granted, the destroyers were down to half strength because RP is unreliable, but it doesn't matter because CSM can use a stratagem to get units to shoot twice.

Any advice on counter play? Other than spam more destroyers and hope the DDA fires more than 1 shot per round?


as a CSM player, focus fire until they're dead, they only have a 5+ invuln so bring AP, 4 wounds a model, and 6 shots a model, so killing even one hurts them significantly. They're pretty much guaranteed to oneshot something. oh, and they have to reroll their profile every time they're selected to shoot, so endless cacophony, they have to reroll their profile.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 15:52:06


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


xenoterracide wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So uh, I played against the new obliterators for the first time.
They pretty much one shot my destroyers off the table. Granted, the destroyers were down to half strength because RP is unreliable, but it doesn't matter because CSM can use a stratagem to get units to shoot twice.

Any advice on counter play? Other than spam more destroyers and hope the DDA fires more than 1 shot per round?


as a CSM player, focus fire until they're dead, they only have a 5+ invuln so bring AP, 4 wounds a model, and 6 shots a model, so killing even one hurts them significantly. They're pretty much guaranteed to oneshot something. oh, and they have to reroll their profile every time they're selected to shoot, so endless cacophony, they have to reroll their profile.


Except its not a 5+, its a 4+ because psychic powers, and -1 to hit them because GW didn't nerf Alpha Legion when they nerfed Raven Guard and gave Blood Axes +1 to cover instead of -1 to hit. Oh, and they're behind a wall of warpflame throwers, so no charging them.
If it were just a 5+ invul and no hit penalty, sure. But with all those buffs and debuffs, focusing them down is a lot harder than it sounds, especially when necrons have mediocre damage output to begin with.

I mean, I get the overall consensus is that the CSM codex has some problems, but compared to necrons they actually have tools at their disposal that works for them.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 16:00:18


Post by: JNAProductions


If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 16:09:08


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 JNAProductions wrote:
If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Isn't there a Tzeentch spell that gives +1 to Invul? Because he had that. He was running 2 battalions, 1 Thousand Sons, 1 Alpha Legion with marks of Slannesh on shooty gits and Khorne on Choppy gits.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 16:11:33


Post by: JNAProductions


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Isn't there a Tzeentch spell that gives +1 to Invul? Because he had that. He was running 2 battalions, 1 Thousand Sons, 1 Alpha Legion with marks of Slannesh on shooty gits and Khorne on Choppy gits.
The Tzeentch Spell only works on Tzeentch units.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 16:21:11


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 JNAProductions wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Isn't there a Tzeentch spell that gives +1 to Invul? Because he had that. He was running 2 battalions, 1 Thousand Sons, 1 Alpha Legion with marks of Slannesh on shooty gits and Khorne on Choppy gits.
The Tzeentch Spell only works on Tzeentch units.


Huh, I guess he flubbed the rules then. It doesn't really matter, after he killed the destroyers it started to go downhill from there.
Another question that arose from the same game - can wraiths go up floors? My opponent claimed as they aren't infantry and can't fly, they can't even go up floors in the movement phase. Now, to me that sounded reasonable, but it does make wraiths a little less appealing.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 19:48:13


Post by: Kahi the Uncertain


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Isn't there a Tzeentch spell that gives +1 to Invul? Because he had that. He was running 2 battalions, 1 Thousand Sons, 1 Alpha Legion with marks of Slannesh on shooty gits and Khorne on Choppy gits.
The Tzeentch Spell only works on Tzeentch units.


Huh, I guess he flubbed the rules then. It doesn't really matter, after he killed the destroyers it started to go downhill from there.
Another question that arose from the same game - can wraiths go up floors? My opponent claimed as they aren't infantry and can't fly, they can't even go up floors in the movement phase. Now, to me that sounded reasonable, but it does make wraiths a little less appealing.


The Wraith Form rule states that they can move across models and terrain "as if they were not there". It doesn't matter if the rules for ruins are that only infantry and units with fly can move up them; as far as the wraiths are concerned the terrain piece in question literally doesn't exist.
This is also why wraiths don't need to measure vertical distances, wraiths ignore any and all terrain. If a unit of havocs are standing on the top floor of a ruin, from the wraiths' perspective they are standing on the ground.

By raw this technically means that wraiths can end their move inside other models, but that's shenanigans.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 20:07:50


Post by: torblind


Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Isn't there a Tzeentch spell that gives +1 to Invul? Because he had that. He was running 2 battalions, 1 Thousand Sons, 1 Alpha Legion with marks of Slannesh on shooty gits and Khorne on Choppy gits.
The Tzeentch Spell only works on Tzeentch units.


Huh, I guess he flubbed the rules then. It doesn't really matter, after he killed the destroyers it started to go downhill from there.
Another question that arose from the same game - can wraiths go up floors? My opponent claimed as they aren't infantry and can't fly, they can't even go up floors in the movement phase. Now, to me that sounded reasonable, but it does make wraiths a little less appealing.


The Wraith Form rule states that they can move across models and terrain "as if they were not there". It doesn't matter if the rules for ruins are that only infantry and units with fly can move up them; as far as the wraiths are concerned the terrain piece in question literally doesn't exist.
This is also why wraiths don't need to measure vertical distances, wraiths ignore any and all terrain. If a unit of havocs are standing on the top floor of a ruin, from the wraiths' perspective they are standing on the ground.

By raw this technically means that wraiths can end their move inside other models, but that's shenanigans.


Are you sure?

Wouldn't you just measure a direct line from start point to end point of intended move if you ignore terrain? Wraithform says nothing about ignoring vertical distance, only ignoring terrain.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 20:47:59


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Isn't there a Tzeentch spell that gives +1 to Invul? Because he had that. He was running 2 battalions, 1 Thousand Sons, 1 Alpha Legion with marks of Slannesh on shooty gits and Khorne on Choppy gits.
The Tzeentch Spell only works on Tzeentch units.


Huh, I guess he flubbed the rules then. It doesn't really matter, after he killed the destroyers it started to go downhill from there.
Another question that arose from the same game - can wraiths go up floors? My opponent claimed as they aren't infantry and can't fly, they can't even go up floors in the movement phase. Now, to me that sounded reasonable, but it does make wraiths a little less appealing.


The Wraith Form rule states that they can move across models and terrain "as if they were not there". It doesn't matter if the rules for ruins are that only infantry and units with fly can move up them; as far as the wraiths are concerned the terrain piece in question literally doesn't exist.
This is also why wraiths don't need to measure vertical distances, wraiths ignore any and all terrain. If a unit of havocs are standing on the top floor of a ruin, from the wraiths' perspective they are standing on the ground.

By raw this technically means that wraiths can end their move inside other models, but that's shenanigans.


That's what I thought, but apparently that's not how it works.
I guess that's something that has to be asked in a FAQ.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 21:19:24


Post by: Draco765


Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Isn't there a Tzeentch spell that gives +1 to Invul? Because he had that. He was running 2 battalions, 1 Thousand Sons, 1 Alpha Legion with marks of Slannesh on shooty gits and Khorne on Choppy gits.
The Tzeentch Spell only works on Tzeentch units.


Huh, I guess he flubbed the rules then. It doesn't really matter, after he killed the destroyers it started to go downhill from there.
Another question that arose from the same game - can wraiths go up floors? My opponent claimed as they aren't infantry and can't fly, they can't even go up floors in the movement phase. Now, to me that sounded reasonable, but it does make wraiths a little less appealing.


The Wraith Form rule states that they can move across models and terrain "as if they were not there". It doesn't matter if the rules for ruins are that only infantry and units with fly can move up them; as far as the wraiths are concerned the terrain piece in question literally doesn't exist.
This is also why wraiths don't need to measure vertical distances, wraiths ignore any and all terrain. If a unit of havocs are standing on the top floor of a ruin, from the wraiths' perspective they are standing on the ground.

By raw this technically means that wraiths can end their move inside other models, but that's shenanigans.


You do ignore the terrain for horizontal movement. But you must measure vertical if you are going up. Only VEHICLES, MONSTERS and BIKES are limited to staying on the ground floor of ruins.

So you measure a direct line to where you want to go up, then measure up to the floor you wish to stop on.
This is in contrast to FLY keyword models who can draw a direct line to the floor in which they want to land on.
This also applies in the charge phase as long as the model in question is not a BUILDING (Aquilla fortress and Landing pads and the like)

And the rule about ending a Move and staying more than 1" away still applies, thus that shenanigans does not apply.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 21:33:59


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Yeah, I knew about vertical movement, but my opponent said I can't go up levels at all because its a beast, not infantry.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 21:36:01


Post by: Draco765


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, I knew about vertical movement, but my opponent said I can't go up levels at all because its a beast, not infantry.


Did a quick edit above.

VEHICLES, MONSTERS and BIKES are the only keywords that are prevented from going above the ground floor. (page 248 brb)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 21:38:14


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 Draco765 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, I knew about vertical movement, but my opponent said I can't go up levels at all because its a beast, not infantry.


Did a quick edit above.

VEHICLES, MONSTERS and BIKES are the only keyword that are prevented from going above the ground floor. (page 248 brb)


Ah, so he flubbed it. Thanks, I'll show him that page next time it comes up.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/09 23:26:14


Post by: xenoterracide


Kahi the Uncertain wrote:


The Wraith Form rule states that they can move across models and terrain "as if they were not there". It doesn't matter if the rules for ruins are that only infantry and units with fly can move up them; as far as the wraiths are concerned the terrain piece in question literally doesn't exist.
This is also why wraiths don't need to measure vertical distances, wraiths ignore any and all terrain. If a unit of havocs are standing on the top floor of a ruin, from the wraiths' perspective they are standing on the ground.

By raw this technically means that wraiths can end their move inside other models, but that's shenanigans.


This is FAQ-ed in the Necron errata, vertical movement applies, they can just move through terrain features


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/10 04:46:54


Post by: p5freak


 Draco765 wrote:

Did a quick edit above.

VEHICLES, MONSTERS and BIKES are the only keywords that are prevented from going above the ground floor. (page 248 brb)


VEHICLES, MONSTERS and BIKES can go above ground floor when they have FLY.

DW BIKES can go above ground floor when they are part of a kill team.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/10 06:28:34


Post by: vict0988


 Draco765 wrote:

So you measure a direct line to where you want to go up, then measure up to the floor you wish to stop on.
This is in contrast to FLY keyword models who can draw a direct line to the floor in which they want to land on.

No, you never draw a direct diagonal line for Movement, you can only go vertically or horizontally and units with Fly ignore the vertical movement. I think there were some ITC judges that believed for a time that you had to measure directly with FLY units but that was never the case RAW and now we know that it's not RAI either. I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but I wanted to help make it clear since there might still be some people that draw diagonal lines with FLY units.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/10 12:12:07


Post by: Draco765


 vict0988 wrote:
 Draco765 wrote:

So you measure a direct line to where you want to go up, then measure up to the floor you wish to stop on.
This is in contrast to FLY keyword models who can draw a direct line to the floor in which they want to land on.

No, you never draw a direct diagonal line for Movement, you can only go vertically or horizontally and units with Fly ignore the vertical movement. I think there were some ITC judges that believed for a time that you had to measure directly with FLY units but that was never the case RAW and now we know that it's not RAI either. I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but I wanted to help make it clear since there might still be some people that draw diagonal lines with FLY units.


Hm, interesting, let's work through this quickly.

First the FAQed rule:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en.pdf Page 1:

"Change the second paragraph to read:‘If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during the Movement phase it can move across models as if they were not there, and when moving across terrain features, vertical distance is not counted against the total it can move (i.e. moving vertically is free for this model in the Movement phase). If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during the Charge phase it can move across models (other than Buildings) as if they were not there."

So, as most people understood that, it should be a move following the Hypotenuse of a Right Angle Triangle. https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/12881222_f520.jpg . Plugging in generic numbers, say the model in on the ground 6" away from the point on the ground below where they want to land (in link b=6) , and the actual level they want to go is 6" up (a=6), the model travels 9" (c=8.485... round up) to the point they wish to go.

But, you are saying that it only measures the 6" (b)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/10 15:18:35


Post by: JNAProductions


Yeah, that's accurate. Dumb, but accurate.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/10 16:00:21


Post by: vict0988


 Draco765 wrote:
But, you are saying that it only measures the 6" (b)

Yeah. But don't worry if you really love the Pythagorean theorem you still have to use it for melee with Doomsday Arks. I prefer cheating and imagining it has a big base under the whole hull.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/10 17:06:19


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Wait, so you DON'T measure diagonally at all times? gak, I've been doing it wrong the whole time then.

Well, at least you can still use the theorem for weapon ranges on a diagonal.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/13 16:42:35


Post by: ClockworkZion


So I decided to finally dust off Necrons for the first time in years and jumped into Nephrekh for my Dynasty (So. Much. Gold. I think I'm going to break it up a bit with some dark steel and jade), and mulling over stuff I came up with a rather silly idea to take advantage of the speed the army has:

+6 Wraiths with Transdimensional Beamers
+9 Scarabs
+Canoptek Cloak Cryptek or CCB (which also takes a Tesla Cannon) with the Solar Staff.

With the Cryptek this runs 574 points, while the CCB (which should also take the -1 to be hit WT) runs 636.

The basic idea is that Wraiths can move 18", and for a CP still shoot and charge (shotting gitting on 4s) with 6d3 shots that can also drop mortal wounds before charging. The staff can let you shut down the Overwatch on an Infantry unit, while the CCB can lay in some extra hurt with the Tesla Cannon. Scarabs are a bit slower, but you can use them to help screen the HQ model, or eat Smite.

It's likely only a combo that'll work on someone once, but the idea of running a Cantopek wing up the board, going full disco on the enemy before charging either what's left or something else looks pretty fun.

Downside is that it is very expensive, though dropping the 9 bases of Scarabs from the combo can help a bit (especially since they have uses all over the army, not just here) and can be pretty alpha strike-y. On the flipside it's got an effective threat range of about 30" meaning that you can reach out and touch things pretty easilly, though with the beamers only being S4 it feels like a lot of fishing for 6s.

Anyone else have some thoughts on this before I try building it? You know, other that it'll never win an ITC major since I don't go to those.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/13 16:01:17


Post by: vict0988


 ClockworkZion wrote:
So I decided to finally dust off Necrons for the first time in years and jumped into Nephrekh for my Dynasty (So. Much. Gold. I think I'm going to break it up a bit with some dark steel and jade), and mulling over stuff I came up with a rather silly idea to take advantage of the speed the army has:

+6 Wraiths with Transdimensional Beamers
+9 Scarabs
+Canoptek Cloak Cryptek or CCB (which also takes a Tesla Cannon) with the Solar Staff.

With the Cryptek this runs 574 points, while the CCB (which should also take the -1 to be hit WT) runs 636.

The basic idea is that Wraiths can move 18", and for a CP still shoot and charge (shotting gitting on 4s) with 6d3 shots that can also drop mortal wounds before charging. The staff can let you shut down the Overwatch on an Infantry unit, while the CCB can lay in some extra hurt with the Tesla Cannon. Scarabs are a bit slower, but you can use them to help screen the HQ model, or eat Smite.

It's likely only a combo that'll work on someone once, but the idea of running a Cantopek wing up the board, going full disco on the enemy before charging either what's left or something else looks pretty fun.

Downside is that it is very expensive, though dropping the 9 bases of Scarabs from the combo can help a bit (especially since they have uses all over the army, not just here) and can be pretty alpha strike-y. On the flipside it's got an effective threat range of about 30" meaning that you can reach out and touch things pretty easilly, though with the beamers only being S4 it feels like a lot of fishing for 6s.

Anyone else have some thoughts on this before I try building it? You know, other that it'll never win an ITC major since I don't go to those.

You are better off without the transdimensional beamers, too expensive, at least build them without it and just proxy the naked Wraiths as disco Wraiths for the one game it'll take you to regret it. Nephrekh Scarabs and Wraiths are amazing. The Cryptek is nice, there's a Stratagem that allows you to get Wraiths back and going from 5+ to 4+ is nice, the CCB is okay if you have Tesla Immortals, but quite terrible otherwise.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/13 20:17:48


Post by: ClockworkZion


 vict0988 wrote:

You are better off without the transdimensional beamers, too expensive, at least build them without it and just proxy the naked Wraiths as disco Wraiths for the one game it'll take you to regret it. Nephrekh Scarabs and Wraiths are amazing. The Cryptek is nice, there's a Stratagem that allows you to get Wraiths back and going from 5+ to 4+ is nice, the CCB is okay if you have Tesla Immortals, but quite terrible otherwise.

I considered the pistols instead (as they're pretty cheap) but I didn't like how little punch they have that way and with how whip coils were nerfed in this edition I feel like it's important to soften the target a bit before mashing into targets face first.

I won't deny they are very expensive guns though for not that much output (and a heavy profile to boot). I guess I was just considering them a bit of a distraction Carnifex that can cause a mess if they hit, and able to tank a fair bit of hits if to protrct the army that is moving into position.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/13 20:32:46


Post by: vict0988


 ClockworkZion wrote:

I considered the pistols instead (as they're pretty cheap) but I didn't like how little punch they have that way and with how whip coils were nerfed in this edition I feel like it's important to soften the target a bit before mashing into targets face first.

I won't deny they are very expensive guns though for not that much output (and a heavy profile to boot). I guess I was just considering them a bit of a distraction Carnifex that can cause a mess if they hit, and able to tank a fair bit of hits if to protrct the army that is moving into position.

It's generally pretty bad to shoot something before you charge it, especially with Nephrekh Wraiths since they can perform ultra-long charges and you want those to go off as often as possible, shooting an enemy unit before charging it increases likelyhood of failure, so everyone always just takes Wraiths naked. Coils are terrible and terribly overpriced sadly, every weapon for the Wraiths is overpriced. Think of it this way, a storm bolter is 2 pts, how is pistol 1 S6 twice as good as RF 2 S4? They'll distract your opponent whether you put guns on them or not, they can punch good against pretty much any target and if you use them to tag enemy vehicles or assasinate enemy characters your opponent will learn to hate them and leave your other units alone. You can also invest in C'tan Shards which provide some extra damage, they need some durable front-liners to tank for them though and they want to be in melee, both Wraiths and Scarabs are great bodyguards for this purpose. You are basically putting even more weight on your opponent to deal with your Wraiths/Scarabs quickly otherwise the C'tan will get in and do nasty things with cosmic fire.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/13 21:53:28


Post by: ClockworkZion


 vict0988 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:

I considered the pistols instead (as they're pretty cheap) but I didn't like how little punch they have that way and with how whip coils were nerfed in this edition I feel like it's important to soften the target a bit before mashing into targets face first.

I won't deny they are very expensive guns though for not that much output (and a heavy profile to boot). I guess I was just considering them a bit of a distraction Carnifex that can cause a mess if they hit, and able to tank a fair bit of hits if to protrct the army that is moving into position.

It's generally pretty bad to shoot something before you charge it, especially with Nephrekh Wraiths since they can perform ultra-long charges and you want those to go off as often as possible, shooting an enemy unit before charging it increases likelyhood of failure, so everyone always just takes Wraiths naked. Coils are terrible and terribly overpriced sadly, every weapon for the Wraiths is overpriced. Think of it this way, a storm bolter is 2 pts, how is pistol 1 S6 twice as good as RF 2 S4? They'll distract your opponent whether you put guns on them or not, they can punch good against pretty much any target and if you use them to tag enemy vehicles or assasinate enemy characters your opponent will learn to hate them and leave your other units alone. You can also invest in C'tan Shards which provide some extra damage, they need some durable front-liners to tank for them though and they want to be in melee, both Wraiths and Scarabs are great bodyguards for this purpose. You are basically putting even more weight on your opponent to deal with your Wraiths/Scarabs quickly otherwise the C'tan will get in and do nasty things with cosmic fire.

Excellent points all around.

But why shoot the charge target (unless it's something big like a knight)? We don't have to charge what we shoot after all. And shooting units that can provide supporting fire for Overwatch while preventing the target from shooting with the Staff seems a good use of splitting fire.

I know I'm probably rationalizing it, I just think it has some fas as a combo, even if the points are a bit heavy.

I am convinced the CCB is probably wasted there though, so if I try this nonsense out it'll be with the Cryptek with cloak (thankfully I got one in the Apoc Outrider detachment box).


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/14 03:51:42


Post by: p5freak


Wraith can shoot their pistols in melee, which doesn't change the fact that they are overpriced. And your opponent gets cover against those shots, so they are pretty much useless.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/14 06:14:49


Post by: ClockworkZion


 p5freak wrote:
Wraith can shoot their pistols in melee, which doesn't change the fact that they are overpriced. And your opponent gets cover against those shots, so they are pretty much useless.

Pistols in melee doesn't feel that useful since most units would rather disengage with the Wraiths and shoot them meaning you'll rarely start a tutn with them in combat.

Cover only applies in very specific situations, but it's a fair point against giving them shooting weapons (shame because Beamers aren't bad guns and would be very playable at half their current cost).

Those guns basically buy a Tomb Blade each before I add guns so that seems like a better use of points as I build off of the Outrider detachment I picked up.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/14 07:00:09


Post by: p5freak


 ClockworkZion wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
Wraith can shoot their pistols in melee, which doesn't change the fact that they are overpriced. And your opponent gets cover against those shots, so they are pretty much useless.

Pistols in melee doesn't feel that useful since most units would rather disengage with the Wraiths and shoot them meaning you'll rarely start a tutn with them in combat.


Only if you let them leave combat. There are ways to prevent this.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/14 07:03:12


Post by: ClockworkZion


So just for fun I broke out the old combat calculator to try something out and on average a unit of 6 beamer Wraiths can expect to kill 2 Marines (or one Primaris), of 5 Fire Warrior (or T3 model with 4+ or worse).

Basically decent guns, but not 14 point good. And with that we bascially put the last nail in the coffin of giving Wraiths guns (for now at least). It's a shame because the idea looks like a fun way of causing some pain to your opponent, but once math and points get involved it falls apart.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 p5freak wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
Wraith can shoot their pistols in melee, which doesn't change the fact that they are overpriced. And your opponent gets cover against those shots, so they are pretty much useless.

Pistols in melee doesn't feel that useful since most units would rather disengage with the Wraiths and shoot them meaning you'll rarely start a tutn with them in combat.


Only if you let them leave combat. There are ways to prevent this.
Unless they have fly, because we don't have wargear or rules go lock people into combat.

Shame we can't have Mindshackle Scarabs back for that purpose.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/14 07:05:39


Post by: vict0988


 ClockworkZion wrote:
So just for fun I broke out the old combat calculator to try something out and on average a unit of 6 Wraits can expect to kill 2 Marines (or one Primaris), of 5 Fire Warrior (or T3 model with 4+ or worse).

Basically decent guns, but not 14 point good. And with that we bascially put the last nail in the coffin of giving Wraiths guns (for now at least). It's a shame because the idea looks like a fun way of causing some pain to your opponent, but once math and points get involved it falls apart.

The tyranny of math. You can still do it in casual games, you can create some pretty mean lists with Nephrekh Wraiths and Scarabs so tuning it down by taking overpriced weapons might be a good idea when playing against newer players or players with bad armies.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/14 07:10:50


Post by: ClockworkZion


 vict0988 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
So just for fun I broke out the old combat calculator to try something out and on average a unit of 6 Wraits can expect to kill 2 Marines (or one Primaris), of 5 Fire Warrior (or T3 model with 4+ or worse).

Basically decent guns, but not 14 point good. And with that we bascially put the last nail in the coffin of giving Wraiths guns (for now at least). It's a shame because the idea looks like a fun way of causing some pain to your opponent, but once math and points get involved it falls apart.

The tyranny of math. You can still do it in casual games, you can create some pretty mean lists with Nephrekh Wraiths and Scarabs so tuning it down by taking overpriced weapons might be a good idea when playing against newer players or players with bad armies.

Good point there. I don't really go all in on competetive play, but I have a hard time shaking out the whole list optimization that comes with that habit.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/14 10:04:59


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 ClockworkZion wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
Wraith can shoot their pistols in melee, which doesn't change the fact that they are overpriced. And your opponent gets cover against those shots, so they are pretty much useless.

Pistols in melee doesn't feel that useful since most units would rather disengage with the Wraiths and shoot them meaning you'll rarely start a tutn with them in combat.

Cover only applies in very specific situations, but it's a fair point against giving them shooting weapons (shame because Beamers aren't bad guns and would be very playable at half their current cost).

Those guns basically buy a Tomb Blade each before I add guns so that seems like a better use of points as I build off of the Outrider detachment I picked up.


Yeah, the pistol in melee rule seems kind of useless when falling back is a thing.
They should have made it so that if a unit falls back, you can choose to shoot them with pistols.
Funnily enough, the falling back mechanic would have also worked great with the initiative stat; roll off initiative, and if you fail you get stuck in combat. GW didn't really think it through.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/14 15:50:07


Post by: ClockworkZion


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Yeah, the pistol in melee rule seems kind of useless when falling back is a thing.
They should have made it so that if a unit falls back, you can choose to shoot them with pistols.
Funnily enough, the falling back mechanic would have also worked great with the initiative stat; roll off initiative, and if you fail you get stuck in combat. GW didn't really think it through.

Agreed, it's definitely a missed opportunity, much like a lot of things in the Necron book.

I'm still salty on how far the Monolith has fallen from where it was on 3rd edition.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/14 16:05:00


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


I'm sure if enough of us email them, they'll fix it.
They can't block all of us.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/15 05:35:11


Post by: p5freak


 ClockworkZion wrote:
Unless they have fly, because we don't have wargear or rules go lock people into combat.


Everyone can lock models into combat. No special rule needed.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/15 06:25:16


Post by: ClockworkZion


 p5freak wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Unless they have fly, because we don't have wargear or rules go lock people into combat.


Everyone can lock models into combat. No special rule needed.


Only if you can bubble wrap said unit and said unit can't fly.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/15 06:52:56


Post by: p5freak


 ClockworkZion wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Unless they have fly, because we don't have wargear or rules go lock people into combat.


Everyone can lock models into combat. No special rule needed.


Only if you can bubble wrap said unit and said unit can't fly.


Yes, all you need is 3 models to "bubble wrap".


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/15 15:06:08


Post by: Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll


Bubble wrapping requires a certain level of movement, and larger units are harder and harder to "bubble wrap" unless the opponent screwed up and allowed you to isolate a single model.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/15 15:21:08


Post by: ClockworkZion


 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
Bubble wrapping requires a certain level of movement, and larger units are harder and harder to "bubble wrap" unless the opponent screwed up and allowed you to isolate a single model.

And then doesn't just remove said model as a causalty when you dump your attacks into the unit.

Larger vehicles are hard to pin with only three bases as well.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/15 18:11:48


Post by: vict0988


You need four models to pin a perfectly square model, three to pin any other model. You can pin a unit by only moving 1 model within 1" of the target and then using your consolidation move to take a captive when you do 0-1 unsaved wounds. Alternatively, you can charge one unit and take a model captive from a nearby unit. It's pretty tricky to avoid having a single model that can be wrapped unless you set up models in a large circle, I find it easy to wrap things and exceedingly hard to avoid. Even if your opponent creates that circle then it can be chopped into pieces and the survivors can be taken prisoner. If you place your model in square you'll still have room with 25 mm bases to take one of the corner men captive.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/17 05:54:31


Post by: tneva82


 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
Bubble wrapping requires a certain level of movement, and larger units are harder and harder to "bubble wrap" unless the opponent screwed up and allowed you to isolate a single model.


And not charging said unit least you end up killing trapped models.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/21 14:42:12


Post by: iGuy91


Yowch. Had a tough game last night vs new marines running a leafblower tank castle (x2 Sicarian Punishers, x2 Redemptors, a Deredeo, hellblasters, intercessors)...stayed in the heavy doctrine all game.

Our infantry are so darn squishy....and AP-2 heavy bolters made it painfully obvious. But. I still managed to pull out a win by playing objectives and using doomsday arks at extreme range to pick off tanks. I have 20 warriors, and 2x10 immortals. All dead by the bottom of turn 3.

MVPs....probably my 2x4 scarabs zooming around with Nephrehk to grab objectives all game, and x10 sword and board lychguard anchoring a flank against 10 intercessors and a redemptor, helping me get domination to sorta seal the deal.




Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/21 19:40:26


Post by: sieGermans


 iGuy91 wrote:
Yowch. Had a tough game last night vs new marines running a leafblower tank castle (x2 Sicarian Punishers, x2 Redemptors, a Deredeo, hellblasters, intercessors)...stayed in the heavy doctrine all game.

Our infantry are so darn squishy....and AP-2 heavy bolters made it painfully obvious. But. I still managed to pull out a win by playing objectives and using doomsday arks at extreme range to pick off tanks. I have 20 warriors, and 2x10 immortals. All dead by the bottom of turn 3.

MVPs....probably my 2x4 scarabs zooming around with Nephrehk to grab objectives all game, and x10 sword and board lychguard anchoring a flank against 10 intercessors and a redemptor, helping me get domination to sorta seal the deal.


Although MWBD+Tesla Immortals been a great trick, it feels like its utility isn’t relevant in this meta, and max squad Immortals isn’t the right call anymore?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/21 22:02:17


Post by: DogHeadGod


The problem is, 10x immort squads are our best option for horde clearing and tough objective holders. They are a swiss army knife unit, able to do work against anything from guardsman to knights effectively... if properly supported.

Tesla on sixes doesn't do the trick against anything other than optimal targets reliably. So, we have a tax of one overlord per 2 squads, or 2 per 3 squads, or imotekh + overlord for 4. The tax is the issue, not immortal squad points.

Warriors.. I want them to work in ITC, but I can't make it happen. If they are 9 points, the math changes, and perhaps. However, you have taxes to consider, again.

Warriors don't need overlords. They do need chronoteks or Orikan, one aura per two units. Lords also help quite a bit. However, at s4, warriors are forced into infantry/light tank duty, as anything t8 is beyond them for more than a bit of chip damage. Add a res orb or ghost ark to keep your 2 to 3 blocks of warriors around, and at best, that's a large investment, not a throwaway screen.

Not sure what the fix is: I have heard that I should expect another round of points decreases in CA. I pray for 9 point warriors. Personally, I still see 30 tesla and 2 overlords as the starting point of my ITC lists, and likely will until the next round of point drops.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/22 06:32:19


Post by: vict0988


What are you going to replace them with? TB spam with no Battalions? With 4+ 5++? It might be a good idea for White Scars as well. Could Canoptek lists become relevant? I think not because of the increased number of attacks on SM. I'm really scared by the new SM, but Raven Guard are probably not going to be amazing so that makes me happy.

I'm also wondering if the Gauss Pylon might be a good counter for IH. So something like a Pylon, 18 Tesla TBs, Cloaktek, 3x DDA, 3x Doomscythe. D6 damage might already be a good enough counter for the Serpent Shield Repulsors, but you're doing 29% less damage and then you have to go through the FNP as well. Not to mention actual Serpent Shield spam being the second most popular Craftworld build AFAIK (still far from being the most popular, but I a lot of the Flyer builds do field them).

I tried out a big unit of Mephrit Tesla TBs against Orks the other day, I absolutely destroyed him but I'm not sure how big an impact the Stratagem had, my 6s weren't amazing, it seems like a very swingy tactic. I'd put 4-8 shots into a couple of Orks and I'd get 3-5 hits instead of the expected 6-12. The Mephrit code was useless because he had a KFF to protect his Boyz.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/22 07:16:46


Post by: tneva82


Quick check. Did necrons have any indirect fire weapons? Or if not what were best ways to deal with targets out of LOS? Salamander supplement is making that one rather important consideration or you can have their core infantry literally immune to long range shooting. Potential targets would be likely scouts/infiltrators out of LOS and potentially in cover for +2 to save. Or if opponent ignores mono bonuses cheap IG infantry squads.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/22 07:23:11


Post by: vict0988


tneva82 wrote:
Quick check. Did necrons have any indirect fire weapons? Or if not what were best ways to deal with targets out of LOS? Salamander supplement is making that one rather important consideration or you can have their core infantry literally immune to long range shooting. Potential targets would be likely scouts/infiltrators out of LOS and potentially in cover for +2 to save. Or if opponent ignores mono bonuses cheap IG infantry squads.

Doomscythes and Imotekh.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/22 07:54:28


Post by: p5freak


 vict0988 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Quick check. Did necrons have any indirect fire weapons? Or if not what were best ways to deal with targets out of LOS? Salamander supplement is making that one rather important consideration or you can have their core infantry literally immune to long range shooting. Potential targets would be likely scouts/infiltrators out of LOS and potentially in cover for +2 to save. Or if opponent ignores mono bonuses cheap IG infantry squads.

Doomscythes and Imotekh.


How can doomscythes fire indirectly, without LOS ? Imotekh is the only unit that can hit an enemy unit he cannot see, and its only once per battle.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/22 08:31:22


Post by: tneva82


I did ask for alternative ways if no indirect. Anything to clear enemy units giving protection to character that is in turn making infantry behind immune to shooting


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/22 11:11:58


Post by: p5freak


I still dont see how a doomscythe would help in your case. It could fly to somewhere where you can draw LOS, but any (fast) unit can do that, like nephrekh wraith, nephrekh anni barges. ATD could be used for the 3 doomscythes, you could pick a point within 3" of the hidden units. There are two ctan powers which dont require LOS, cosmic fire, and sky of falling stars. Scarabs could self destruct if they can get within 1" of the hidden enemy unit, this works through walls.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/22 11:25:56


Post by: vict0988


Melee won't help you taking a unit out before you want to shoot at different targets with your Immortals or Doomsday Arks. Doomscythes have much more mobility than Tomb Blades and on top of that they have Amalgamated Targeting Data which can be used just outside an L ruin and hit a unit that might be hiding inside. Assuming your ruins have bases it'll also be hell to clear out Intercessors with Tesla unless you have Nebuloscopes you'll be forced to use the Solar Pulse stratagem to push wounds through and to do 10 wounds with TBs you need 12 TBs ignoring cover. C'tan are not a competitive choice, they are okay and Cosmic Fire is their best power IMO, it's just not really relevant to a 3xDDA and TB/Immortals/Destroyers list that I imagine tneva was worrying about when facing Salamanders. If you are playing a C'tan/Canoptek list not being able to shoot some units is irrelevant.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/24 20:30:14


Post by: tneva82


Something I have been noticing with my necrons. Doomsday arks. Lovely vehicle. Plenty of firepower. But I'm having hard time getting to actually fire the high power mode! People are too good at moving out of sight so I end up having to move.

On the other hand it gives me easy range with the side guns so actually those end up causing quite a decent damage in the end! Much to my opponents annoyance. Today the krieg player facing them 2nd time(I played vs him in 1st round) had serious headache with my doomsday arks floating around chasing his tank commanders(and hoping to get LOS to basilisk as well preferably).

Go figure. Are other people just playing on more open boards or how you keep them shooting the big power gun?

Wish the ghost ark was better though. I would love cheap version with just the gaus flayers and float around throwing 20 dice around deflecting lascannon shots to opponents annoyance.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/24 20:52:10


Post by: vict0988


tneva82 wrote:
Something I have been noticing with my necrons. Doomsday arks. Lovely vehicle. Plenty of firepower. But I'm having hard time getting to actually fire the high power mode! People are too good at moving out of sight so I end up having to move.

On the other hand it gives me easy range with the side guns so actually those end up causing quite a decent damage in the end! Much to my opponents annoyance. Today the krieg player facing them 2nd time(I played vs him in 1st round) had serious headache with my doomsday arks floating around chasing his tank commanders(and hoping to get LOS to basilisk as well preferably).

Go figure. Are other people just playing on more open boards or how you keep them shooting the big power gun?

Wish the ghost ark was better though. I would love cheap version with just the gaus flayers and float around throwing 20 dice around deflecting lascannon shots to opponents annoyance.

You can find pics of tournament tables on google and in battle reports, you can see what kind of terrain people play with. For me it's up and down, if I place my Doomsday Ark on top of a ruin there will be relatively little space to hide, maybe for 2-3 vehicles and 60 infantry models. But Knights, parking lots or hordes will not have enough room to hide. On top of that I usually always play with objectives more or less out in the open and whether you use Maelstrom or ITC you have an incentive to not just hide and slink around all game. Tallarn Tank Commanders can be a bit of a nightmare to get LOS on because they can move after shooting, same with mortar teams and Wyverns that don't need LOS and have long range. As you mentioned even on the worst battlefield the Doomsday Ark (especially the Sautekh one) is pretty mobile and can do some good damage on the move.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/25 06:06:15


Post by: p5freak


I never had a problem firing my DDAs with high power shots. I place them at the highest points of my deployment zone, and usually dont have to move them. At my FLGS we play with ~10 citadel ruins, those have openings everywhere, so its no problem to have LOS.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/25 06:58:34


Post by: stormcraft


Trying to make a List for the following Format:

1250 Pts
No Datasheet more than once, except Troops (up to 3 Times each)

Here are my 2 Ideas:

1. Nephrek Speed List:
Spoiler:

+++ Necs1250 (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [74 PL, 1,248pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [74 PL, 1,248pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice
. Categories: No Force Org Slot
. Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ [14 PL, 231pts] +

Catacomb Command Barge [9 PL, 146pts]: Artefact: Lightning Field, Tesla Cannon [13pts], Warlord, Warscythe [9pts]
. Categories: Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Catacomb Command Barge, Fly, Overlord, Vehicle, Character, HQ, Warlord

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Canoptek Cloak [5pts], Staff of Light [10pts]
. Categories: Character, Cryptek, Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Infantry, HQ, Fly

+ Troops [20 PL, 375pts] +

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal [80pts], Tesla Carbine [70pts]
. Categories: Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Immortals, Infantry, Troops

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal [80pts], Tesla Carbine [70pts]
. Categories: Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Immortals, Infantry, Troops

Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: Gauss Blaster [35pts], 5x Immortal [40pts]
. Categories: Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Immortals, Infantry, Troops

+ Fast Attack [30 PL, 482pts] +

Canoptek Scarabs [2 PL, 39pts]: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm [39pts]
. Categories: Canoptek Scarabs, Faction: Canoptek, Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Fly, Swarm, Fast Attack

Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 288pts]
. Categories: Beast, Canoptek Wraiths, Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Faction: Canoptek, Fast Attack
. 6x Canoptek Wraith [288pts]

Tomb Blades [10 PL, 155pts]
. Categories: Biker, Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Fly, Tomb Blades, Fast Attack
. Tomb Blade [31pts]: Shieldvanes [3pts]
. . Two Gauss Blasters [14pts]: 2x Gauss Blaster [14pts]
. Tomb Blade [31pts]: Shieldvanes [3pts]
. . Two Gauss Blasters [14pts]: 2x Gauss Blaster [14pts]
. Tomb Blade [31pts]: Shieldvanes [3pts]
. . Two Gauss Blasters [14pts]: 2x Gauss Blaster [14pts]
. Tomb Blade [31pts]: Shieldvanes [3pts]
. . Two Gauss Blasters [14pts]: 2x Gauss Blaster [14pts]
. Tomb Blade [31pts]: Shieldvanes [3pts]
. . Two Gauss Blasters [14pts]: 2x Gauss Blaster [14pts]

+ Heavy Support [10 PL, 160pts] +

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
. Categories: Faction: Necrons, Faction: <Dynasty>, Fly, Vehicle, Doomsday Ark, Heavy Support

Created with BattleScribe


2. Sauthek Shooty

Spoiler:

+++ Necs1250 (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [75 PL, 1,250pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [75 PL, 1,250pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice
. Categories: No Force Org Slot
. Dynasty: Sautekh

+ HQ [15 PL, 255pts] +

Cryptek [5 PL, 95pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Chronometron [15pts], Staff of Light [10pts]
. Categories: Character, Cryptek, Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Infantry, HQ

Imotekh the Stormlord [10 PL, 160pts]
. Categories: Faction: Necrons, Character, Infantry, Faction: Sautekh, Overlord, Imotekh the Stormlord, HQ

+ Troops [20 PL, 375pts] +

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal [80pts], Tesla Carbine [70pts]
. Categories: Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Immortals, Infantry, Troops

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal [80pts], Tesla Carbine [70pts]
. Categories: Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Immortals, Infantry, Troops

Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: Gauss Blaster [35pts], 5x Immortal [40pts]
. Categories: Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Immortals, Infantry, Troops

+ Fast Attack [30 PL, 460pts] +

Canoptek Scarabs [2 PL, 39pts]: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm [39pts]
. Categories: Canoptek Scarabs, Faction: Canoptek, Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Fly, Swarm, Fast Attack

Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
. Categories: Destoyers, Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Fly, Infantry, Fast Attack
. 6x Destroyer [18 PL, 300pts]: 6x Gauss Cannon [120pts]

Tomb Blades [10 PL, 121pts]
. Categories: Biker, Faction: <Dynasty>, Faction: Necrons, Fly, Tomb Blades, Fast Attack
. Tomb Blade [28pts]
. . Two Gauss Blasters [14pts]: 2x Gauss Blaster [14pts]
. Tomb Blade [31pts]: Shieldvanes [3pts]
. . Two Gauss Blasters [14pts]: 2x Gauss Blaster [14pts]
. Tomb Blade [31pts]: Shieldvanes [3pts]
. . Two Gauss Blasters [14pts]: 2x Gauss Blaster [14pts]
. Tomb Blade [31pts]: Shieldvanes [3pts]
. . Two Gauss Blasters [14pts]: 2x Gauss Blaster [14pts]

+ Heavy Support [10 PL, 160pts] +

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
. Categories: Faction: Necrons, Faction: <Dynasty>, Fly, Vehicle, Doomsday Ark, Heavy Support

Created with BattleScribe


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/25 07:09:05


Post by: vict0988


stormcraft wrote:
Trying to make a List for the following Format:

1250 Pts
No Datasheet more than once, except Troops (up to 3 Times each)

What missions will you be playing? What sort of terrain is usually used at the venue you'll be playing at? I'd say go for the Sautekh list without knowing more.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/25 07:42:09


Post by: stormcraft


6 objectives Pre set Symetrical on The Tables, Plenty Ruins, 1 Big LOS Blocker n the Middle usually.

Primary Mission is 1 Point per Objective Hold at the End of Player Turn
SEcondary is 1 Point per 100Points Killed at the End of The game.
Tetriary is 3 Player Chosen Bonus Objectives netting 1 to 5 Points Each.

So Mainly hold a Many Objectives as Possible and Kill as much as Possible


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/25 08:53:12


Post by: p5freak


My suggestion. You can deepstrike the destroyers and the veiltek, or use the veiltek to jump them somewhere T1 and kill vehicles. Nephrekh lets you move fast across the map. Scarabs can screen against deepstrikers, they can intercept smites, tie up units in melee. Tomb blades are hard to kill and very fast as nephrekh. You could use a DDA instead of the destroyers, but one is none. If you roll 1s or 2s for the number of shots, or when hitting, the DDA will not do any damage. You could drop some models here and there, remove the destroyers, and go with two DDAs.

Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [72 PL, 8CP, 1,249pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Dynasty Choice
. Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 80pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Staff of Light

Overlord [6 PL, 94pts]: Staff of Light
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Codex 3): Immortal Pride

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 90pts]: 6x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 78pts]: 6x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 78pts]: 6x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Destroyers [15 PL, 250pts]
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon

Tomb Blades [14 PL, 279pts]
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine

++ Total: [72 PL, 8CP, 1,249pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/25 08:54:13


Post by: vict0988


stormcraft wrote:
6 objectives Pre set Symetrical on The Tables, Plenty Ruins, 1 Big LOS Blocker n the Middle usually.

Primary Mission is 1 Point per Objective Hold at the End of Player Turn
SEcondary is 1 Point per 100Points Killed at the End of The game.
Tetriary is 3 Player Chosen Bonus Objectives netting 1 to 5 Points Each.

So Mainly hold a Many Objectives as Possible and Kill as much as Possible

I'd replace the DDA and TBs with 6 Destroyers if you end up going with Nephrekh, I still think Sautekh looks better.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/25 12:11:36


Post by: tneva82


 p5freak wrote:
I never had a problem firing my DDAs with high power shots. I place them at the highest points of my deployment zone, and usually dont have to move them. At my FLGS we play with ~10 citadel ruins, those have openings everywhere, so its no problem to have LOS.


Well we don't play with hole ridden ruins or play that 1st floor block. Ruins with such holes might just as well not be on board. And then we have 2 gunliness stationary blowing up holes.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/25 12:48:18


Post by: iGuy91


tneva82 wrote:
Something I have been noticing with my necrons. Doomsday arks. Lovely vehicle. Plenty of firepower. But I'm having hard time getting to actually fire the high power mode! People are too good at moving out of sight so I end up having to move.

On the other hand it gives me easy range with the side guns so actually those end up causing quite a decent damage in the end! Much to my opponents annoyance. Today the krieg player facing them 2nd time(I played vs him in 1st round) had serious headache with my doomsday arks floating around chasing his tank commanders(and hoping to get LOS to basilisk as well preferably).

Go figure. Are other people just playing on more open boards or how you keep them shooting the big power gun?

Wish the ghost ark was better though. I would love cheap version with just the gaus flayers and float around throwing 20 dice around deflecting lascannon shots to opponents annoyance.


You must have some craaaazzy LOS blocking terrain, or are playing ITC style magic boxes. That, and remember they can fly. Pop them up on top of a building for crazy LOS.
I usually have little trouble with it.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/25 15:36:31


Post by: xenoterracide


Do we have any must use strategems? like "endless cacophony" or "veterans of the long war" for chaos? After reading through them twice I haven't found any, more contextual, but that leaves me having trouble remembering them.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/25 17:39:30


Post by: iGuy91


xenoterracide wrote:
Do we have any must use strategems? like "endless cacophony" or "veterans of the long war" for chaos? After reading through them twice I haven't found any, more contextual, but that leaves me having trouble remembering them.


Solar Pulse is fantastic, as is extermination protocols for destroyers

If you run wraiths, adaptive subroutines is fantastic

Quantum Deflection is good on our vehicles

Amalgamated Targeting Data is a big mortal wound bomb if you run doom scythes.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/26 05:23:12


Post by: tneva82


 iGuy91 wrote:

You must have some craaaazzy LOS blocking terrain, or are playing ITC style magic boxes. That, and remember they can fly. Pop them up on top of a building for crazy LOS.
I usually have little trouble with it.


Or with ruins that have windows blocked. Ruins with holes are useless and might be just as well removed and play on planet bowling ball.

As for top of building works until opponent puts his vehicle behind building himself. Unless you have like 20" tall tower(and no such things here and thank god for that to prevent fly keyword being overpowered) it's not going to get LOS to vehicle hugging wall.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Math help needed! Tried to calculate what effect melta bonus(2d6 pick highest for damage) is with quantum shield. Either my logic is incorrect or average damage per shot is actually same as with d6 damage(1.555555555555... per shot).

Mapped out how many 1, 2, 3 etc damage you get in 36 dice rolls(2d6). Came up with 1x1, 3x2, 5x3, 7x4, 9x5 and 11x6 for total of 36 different result.

Then for damage I used (odds of damage getting through)*damage*combinations(from above table) so for example for 5 damage (1/3)*5*9 for total of 15. Got 1, 5, 10, 14, 15 and 11 for total of 56 damage. Divide by 36 and I got 1.55555. Exact same as d6 damage.

Intuitively feels wrong. I would have thought melta drops average damage as well but seems it only causes bigger swings(either you are invulnerable or you get big holes in your arks) with average damage staying same...My method of calculating average incorrect?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/26 05:58:23


Post by: torblind


I think it does, QS negates the melta bonus.

Clicking around in www.dice-hammer.com suggests that too. Although it doesn't show the calculations, just the average output of damage. (Check the QS box in the too and the melta box on the weapon)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/26 06:06:21


Post by: vict0988


xenoterracide wrote:
Do we have any must use strategems? like "endless cacophony" or "veterans of the long war" for chaos? After reading through them twice I haven't found any, more contextual, but that leaves me having trouble remembering them.

*Tier 1 Stratagems: Amalgamated Targeting Data, Blood Rites, Extermination Protocols, Methodical Destruction, Phaeron's Will and Prepared Positions.
*Tier 2 Stratagems: Adaptive Subroutines, Command Re-roll, Damage Control Override, Dynastic Heirlooms, Insane Bravery, New Orders, Reclaim a Lost Empire, Resurrection Protocols, Solar Pulse, Talent For Annihilation (for Tesla only), Translocation Crypt and Quantum Deflection.
*Tier 3 Stratagems: Cosmic Powers, Counter-Offensive, Dimensional Corridor, Dispersion Field Amplification, Disruption Fields, Emergency Invasion Beam, Judgment of the Triarch, Repair Subroutines and Wrath of the C'Tan.
*Tier 4 Stratagems: Enhanced Invasion Beam, Gravitic Singularity, Entropic Strike and Self Destruction.
*Tier 5 Stratagems: Enhanced Reanimation Protocols.

Tier 5 is useless, but the rest are listed more or less in order of how often they are useful and how big an impact they have on my games.
tneva82 wrote:

Math help needed! Tried to calculate what effect melta bonus(2d6 pick highest for damage) is with quantum shield. Either my logic is incorrect or average damage per shot is actually same as with d6 damage(1.555555555555... per shot).

Mapped out how many 1, 2, 3 etc damage you get in 36 dice rolls(2d6). Came up with 1x1, 3x2, 5x3, 7x4, 9x5 and 11x6 for total of 36 different result.

Then for damage I used (odds of damage getting through)*damage*combinations(from above table) so for example for 5 damage (1/3)*5*9 for total of 15. Got 1, 5, 10, 14, 15 and 11 for total of 56 damage. Divide by 36 and I got 1.55555. Exact same as d6 damage.

Intuitively feels wrong. I would have thought melta drops average damage as well but seems it only causes bigger swings(either you are invulnerable or you get big holes in your arks) with average damage staying same...My method of calculating average incorrect?

You can QD against melta, very often worth it, re-rolling a 5/6 for D5/D6 will also have a huge impact. On paper, it might be the same but in reality, melta will do much worse. Add to that the fact that melta pays more for the average wound inflicted, something like plasma will be four times as effective.

Your method is correct.
Spoiler:


*If you roll an additional dice and pick the highest when rolling a 1 you do 0,55... more damage.
*If you roll an additional dice and pick the highest when rolling a 2 you do 0 more damage.
*3 you do 0,22.. less damage.
*4 you do 0,22... less damage.
*5 you do 0,11... less damage.
*6 you do 0 more damage.
*0,55-0-0,22-0,22-0,11-0=0


*QS vs no QS your durability is multiplied by
Spoiler:

*1 vs D1
*1,2 vs D2
*1,5 vs D3
*2 vs D4
*3 vs D5
*6 vs D6
*1,285714286 vs DD3
*2,25 vs DD6

*3,5/2=2,25/1,285714286 so the higher damage of D6 damage compared to D3 damage is the same as the increased benefit of QS.


*QD vs QS your durability is multiplied by
Spoiler:


*1,2 vs D1
*1,25 vs D2
*1,33 vs D3
*1,5 vs D4
*2 vs D5
*infinity vs D6
*1,27 vs DD3
*1,6 vs DD6


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/26 06:34:18


Post by: tneva82


Vict thanks. And yeah in general I def would like to have QS vs melta than QS vs non melta even this way. Especially with quantum deflection stratagem(here average actually differs between the two) and command rerolls to reroll that annoying 6 which is bigger impact than when failing that QS vs lower damage so all factors considered better for necron the more melta bonus opponent has.

But good to know my method was correct. But surprised the heck out of me to see the result.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/26 16:04:51


Post by: Shaelinith


 vict0988 wrote:

*Tier 1 Stratagems: Blood Rites,


Genuine question, on what unit do you play Blood Rites ? Scythe guard ? Wraiths ? Both ? With support (Crimson Haze warlord trait and/or Anrakyr) ?
Do you have success with that kind of list ?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/26 16:37:03


Post by: vict0988


Shaelinith wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:

*Tier 1 Stratagems: Blood Rites,


Genuine question, on what unit do you play Blood Rites ? Scythe guard ? Wraiths ? Both ? With support (Crimson Haze warlord trait and/or Anrakyr) ?
Do you have success with that kind of list ?

It's been a while since i used it, but yeah Scythe Guard w. Anrakyr led by Lord w. Crimson Haze, naked Wraiths in my 18-man Canoptek C'tan Novokh list led by Destroyer Lord w. Haze. I also used it with the Seraptek Construct when I was testing it just as the rules came out, I don't remember using it while testing out Flayed Ones, I kept forgetting to bring them in from reinforcements. I have success with all my lists, some more than others, I wouldn't say any of these lists are good enough to be called truly competitive, they're still something I'd bring in a casual match.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/26 19:13:57


Post by: tneva82


Apart from monolith turn 1 charge combo which costs a lot and isn't competive anyway what do people use deceiver's repositioning for? Just fixing deployment mistakes? Destroyers into better position? DDA? With immortals wanting cryptek and overlord nearby repositioning those isn't that feasible.

Thinking of ordering deceiver(plus 2 apoc boxes and start collecting box) so thinking what to use it for(besides mortal wounds everywhere)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/26 21:02:07


Post by: Odrankt


Don't order a Deceiver or any C'tan. I would be surprised if GW are using Psychic Awakening to update old metal/Finecast models into plastic. So wait until Necrons show up and if we don't get new plastic C'tan then buy the Finecast deceiver


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 04:49:18


Post by: tneva82


A) i very much doubt c'tans are high in priority list. First book has 1 kits for eldars and who knows when necrons get stuff. Next ydear? b) i don't have fixation to get everything in plastic which is going to result in price hike anyway


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 05:12:18


Post by: Odrankt


Okay, just thought I would pre-warn you that GW are updating older kits into plastic ones. So if you want to buy your C'tan as Finecast then work away. I just hope it doesn't come bent or mis-figured.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 05:52:38


Post by: p5freak


 Odrankt wrote:
Don't order a Deceiver or any C'tan. I would be surprised if GW are using Psychic Awakening to update old metal/Finecast models into plastic. So wait until Necrons show up and if we don't get new plastic C'tan then buy the Finecast deceiver


Why ? Ctans dont use psychic powers. Necrons have no psykers.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 06:17:23


Post by: tneva82


 Odrankt wrote:
Okay, just thought I would pre-warn you that GW are updating older kits into plastic ones. So if you want to buy your C'tan as Finecast then work away. I just hope it doesn't come bent or mis-figured.


In past 4 years I have had zero issues with finecast. Worst has been sword I have had to heat up to straighten up but bohoo. Plastic models with their bazillion pieces takes me more time to assemble anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 p5freak wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
Don't order a Deceiver or any C'tan. I would be surprised if GW are using Psychic Awakening to update old metal/Finecast models into plastic. So wait until Necrons show up and if we don't get new plastic C'tan then buy the Finecast deceiver


Why ? Ctans dont use psychic powers. Necrons have no psykers.


All releases in this don't use psychic powers(or since when howling banshees have been psykers? incubis?) though so there he has point. C'tan is as good guess as to what comes as others. But could be some of the named characters redone either. All won't be changed anyway so plenty to choose.

But then again GW hasn't said all will get models. Necrons could get just couple specialist detachments ala vigilus. Or maybe super-traits like marines got combat doctrines. Or new plastic Imhotek and updated stats. Or whatever.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 07:10:56


Post by: p5freak


So, dont buy anything because some new models might be released. Got it


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 08:15:24


Post by: Odrankt


Or maybe I'm telling someone to not buy anything Finecast because GW are planning to update all their Finecast models with newer plastic ones. Sorry that I'm trying to be helpful to people on here.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 08:30:02


Post by: Latro_


Thinking about doing a necrons army, cursory glance at this thread and some blogs and it appears its not a good time for metal guys?

Am i right in thinking to even survive a game in current 8th its:
3x Doom scythes
3x Doomsday arks
immo, overlords and teks
tesla immortals up the wazoo
tomb blades or destroyers

pretty much ignore the rest of the book


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 09:16:20


Post by: vict0988


 Latro_ wrote:
Thinking about doing a necrons army, cursory glance at this thread and some blogs and it appears its not a good time for metal guys?

Am i right in thinking to even survive a game in current 8th its:
3x Doom scythes
3x Doomsday arks
immo, overlords and teks
tesla immortals up the wazoo
tomb blades or destroyers

pretty much ignore the rest of the book

It's probably not a good time for anyone when Iron Hands come out, the above has been the meta units until now but how the meta changes in a couple of months as everybody gets their Space Marines armies painted or re-painted so it might be that Wraith Wings become a thing again to ignore all the AP-2 spam. Ignoring that fact, if you like the above then Necrons are mid-tier compared to most other armies. As far as build options I don't think we're any more limited than most factions and the units you listed aren't that much better than many of our other units. A lot of people have said that Craftworlds have a lot of good builds, but I don't really trust that and now a lot of Craftworld players are saying they only have the same number of good units Necrons do.
The units you mentioned are our top tier units, below that is the Seraptek Heavy Constructs, Triarch Stalkers, Wraiths, Scarabs and Gauss Pylons which are worse but still good enough to win tournaments. Spyders, Monoliths, Obelisks, Acanthrites and Night Scythes are the only truly terrible Necron units IMO, the rest fall in-between the second rung of units and this fourth useless one, but the tier 3 units can still be used to great effect. It depends on what you want from your army and what playstyle you want to use, 8th is way too balanced to ignore all but 5-6 units in the codex. I'd also say that Imotekh is better than Overlords and Lords are better for Immortals, but Crypteks are better for Destroyers and Tomb Blades. Pts will be updated in 3 months, I'm definitely not buying anything until then. I'd also say that's a good reason to wait ordering any C'tan, we might be seeing 160 pt Transcendent C'tan and no movement on the others.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 09:36:05


Post by: tneva82


 Odrankt wrote:
Or maybe I'm telling someone to not buy anything Finecast because GW are planning to update all their Finecast models with newer plastic ones. Sorry that I'm trying to be helpful to people on here.


That means you are looking at years of waiting though...

People have claiming "NOW" GW changes all the finecast models to plastic for years. But this is just some models but hey even eldars got just 1 out of what 6 aspects to plastic this time.

Besides not all have irrational hatred of finecast and there's no quarantee the new model would be even better looking and almost certainly suffer from size creep that's rather annoying. Plus price hike as usual with plastic models. I rather pay 22.5£ now than 40-50£ for oversized model in future(which is going to be harder to assemble as well)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 vict0988 wrote:
I'd also say that's a good reason to wait ordering any C'tan, we might be seeing 160 pt Transcendent C'tan and no movement on the others.


Well they perform different functions anyway as transcendent c'tan is for the moving. Anyway I'm future proof for that anyway as I have t'ctan already anyway.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 14:16:28


Post by: p5freak


Latro_ wrote:Thinking about doing a necrons army, cursory glance at this thread and some blogs and it appears its not a good time for metal guys?

Am i right in thinking to even survive a game in current 8th its:
3x Doom scythes
3x Doomsday arks
immo, overlords and teks
tesla immortals up the wazoo
tomb blades or destroyers

pretty much ignore the rest of the book


If you want to play competitively, then yes, thats the way to go. And dont expect to be in the top 10.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 18:55:16


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


So...FAQs were released, and Necrons didn't get one. I guess that means we're getting a new codex soon?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 18:55:51


Post by: iGuy91


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...FAQs were released, and Necrons didn't get one. I guess that means we're getting a new codex soon?


I somehow doubt it. *sigh*


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 19:22:22


Post by: Red Corsair


tneva82 wrote:
Apart from monolith turn 1 charge combo which costs a lot and isn't competive anyway what do people use deceiver's repositioning for? Just fixing deployment mistakes? Destroyers into better position? DDA? With immortals wanting cryptek and overlord nearby repositioning those isn't that feasible.

Thinking of ordering deceiver(plus 2 apoc boxes and start collecting box) so thinking what to use it for(besides mortal wounds everywhere)


In the odd game with a seraptek it is pretty critical for getting it the feth out of your deployment zone. You cannot charge it sure, but you can walk it into their army and wait for it to explode
Honestly though, it's usefulness depends entirely on how creative you need to be. But I am not sure how great it is going to be now that space marines can zone you out so damned far.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Latro_ wrote:
Thinking about doing a necrons army, cursory glance at this thread and some blogs and it appears its not a good time for metal guys?

Am i right in thinking to even survive a game in current 8th its:
3x Doom scythes
3x Doomsday arks
immo, overlords and teks
tesla immortals up the wazoo
tomb blades or destroyers

pretty much ignore the rest of the book


I am not a big fan of triple doom scythes. The investment for a gimmick that requires first turn and even then only lasts one turn is too steep IMHO. Especially with marines being updated, against primaris your really not killing that much with the strat and the tesla output is pretty bad. It's amazing how quickly the meta shifts but we quickly lost any ground we gained since the last CA.




Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 20:44:51


Post by: vict0988


It looks like GW didn't like our infinite tesla shenanigans and so the Mephrit Stratagem is once again trash. I don't think no FAQ means new codex. Hoping for a fix for Tomb World deployment wouldn't be fair since they're so busy with SM. I'm not going to complain they still haven't reversed the idiotic ruling on Quantum Deflection working against D1.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 20:56:44


Post by: DogHeadGod


If you play Doom6 (dscythes/ddas), I agree with midtable. People are wise to scythe shenanigans. If people are tooling up gor Eldar flyers, our lesser air units will be but dust in the wind before them. Doom scythes are for beating people/liats you'd gave beaten anyway, but doing so in a more trollish manner. I don't believe they are a benefit proportionate to their cost if you are up against a solid player with a meta list.

I do believe we have top table builds. I doubt the air wing is included in them.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 21:04:00


Post by: sieGermans


I think the biggest nerf to their effectiveness is how useless 3d3 mortal wounds is against a min size Primaris squad (which will now feature more often in the meta).

3d3 producing an average of 6 mortal wounds was previously lethal to a min size SM squad (though no one was really running those per se). Versus a 2W Primaris, it’s only 3 dead models.

That costs you not only First Strike (or First Blood) but also any other potential plans for screen clearing, Kill Points, etc.

In fairness, this will be a similar problem for other Mortal
Wound reliant strategies, but where they can try to make up for it in volume, we have no other reliable sources for Turn 1.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 22:49:11


Post by: Draco765


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...FAQs were released, and Necrons didn't get one. I guess that means we're getting a new codex soon?

That just means that Necrons do not have any ruling issues associated with them this time around.

 DogHeadGod wrote:
I do believe we have top table builds. I doubt the air wing is included in them.

Yet, for some reason, it was not until the Necron players started to use that airwing detachment that Necrons started getting a lot more visible top table placings.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/27 23:22:59


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 vict0988 wrote:
It looks like GW didn't like our infinite tesla shenanigans and so the Mephrit Stratagem is once again trash.


Where was this change? I didn't see anything about that.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/28 05:08:32


Post by: vict0988


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
It looks like GW didn't like our infinite tesla shenanigans and so the Mephrit Stratagem is once again trash.


Where was this change? I didn't see anything about that.

It was the previous SM FAQ which stated that any additional hits you got from an ability on a specific hit roll (such as a 6) counted as having that same hit roll, so you counted as rolling 2 6s for every 6 you rolled, which meant if you had another ability that benefitted from rolling 6s those two abilities synergized. That was apparently only meant to apply to SM but in previous editions we were starved for FAQs so we often needed to look for precedence in the FAQs for other factions and so people took that to mean it applied to Necron Tesla as well. A literal interpretation for that ability could, with the right glasses, be taken to mean that a 6 to hit generated a 6 generated a 6 generated a 6... Infinite hits. Now the new SM FAQ changed it back to what I think most people thought of being the original rules, those additional tesla hits don't have a hit roll, they're just generic hits. That also means we get one extra hit roll for each hit roll of 6 with the Tesla/Mephrit Stratagem combo instead of 3 or infinite.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/28 08:29:01


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Oh well that's just crap. And counter intuitive, as you'd think you'd get the extra hits.
Yeah, the mephrit strat isn't great anymore. You can't use tesla cheese and necron weapons don't have the RoF to reliably proc it.

I hope in the next necron book we get good faction traits, because right now they suck. You can tell they want us to use faction soup, but it doesn't work because -

- Models are expensive, so if we soup we lose out on CP
- Soup is a logistical nightmare to play with, unless you don't mind your army looking like a rainbow
- Soup is boring, as you will always take units in the detachments that benefit them
- The traits still suck even in soup.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/28 16:03:46


Post by: xenoterracide


can a ghost ark transport immortals? I'm confused because it says Warriors or CHARACTERS, the former isn't the WARRIORS tag.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/28 17:02:15


Post by: vict0988


xenoterracide wrote:
can a ghost ark transport immortals? I'm confused because it says Warriors or CHARACTERS, the former isn't the WARRIORS tag.

No, there is no confusion. Immortals and Lychguard have never been able to enter Ghost Arks.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/29 05:07:48


Post by: Red Corsair


I am wondering what kind of point cuts we get this year in CA Surely they have to drop things quite a bit in response to how far the creep has gotten since last year.

I know what we need are better range bands and some core fixes to poorly designed units, but in lieu of a new book they are gonna have to drop points as a stop gap. If they lower destroyers and tomb blades things could get interesting again maybe

Sorry for the speculative posting but I feel we have kind of tread all the ground we can at the moment given what we have.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/29 05:12:35


Post by: Blndmage


The problem with nuts cuts, is that eventually that will just make us a horde army. That's not the Necrons I started!



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/29 10:05:13


Post by: torblind


 Blndmage wrote:
The problem with nuts cuts, is that eventually that will just make us a horde army. That's not the Necrons I started!



You could still learn to love a warrior horde, couldn't you?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/29 10:11:09


Post by: Odrankt


 Blndmage wrote:
The problem with nuts cuts, is that eventually that will just make us a horde army. That's not the Necrons I started!



It's actually very thematic to have a Lord in charge of several hundred warriors. While that Lord then serves the Overlord and such. If we become a horde army then it's warrior blobs and Ghost Arks for days.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/29 10:39:42


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 Blndmage wrote:
The problem with nuts cuts, is that eventually that will just make us a horde army. That's not the Necrons I started!



I see you didn't start in 3rd ed then

Necrons should probably be like Vampire Counts, imo.
A lot of cheap, gakky units who just serve as a distraction from your real killers.
Warriors and scarabs need to be cheaper, and scarabs should be moved to troops (or no FoC slot) so you can spam them and tie enemies up.

HQ choices and Elites should be absolute powerhouses, as opposed to the wet noodles they are now.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/29 13:33:00


Post by: Red Corsair


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Blndmage wrote:
The problem with nuts cuts, is that eventually that will just make us a horde army. That's not the Necrons I started!



I see you didn't start in 3rd ed then

Necrons should probably be like Vampire Counts, imo.
A lot of cheap, gakky units who just serve as a distraction from your real killers.
Warriors and scarabs need to be cheaper, and scarabs should be moved to troops (or no FoC slot) so you can spam them and tie enemies up.

HQ choices and Elites should be absolute powerhouses, as opposed to the wet noodles they are now.


Yea in 3rd they were basically endless ranks of robots backed by floating castles lol.

Scarabs should always blow up in combat when they die to do 1 mortal wound to the enemy I always thought. Also they should be -1 to hit or multi damage is reduced to 1, how the feth do you shoot a swarm with a solid shot? We also should have had the translocation crypt and fight twice strat as generic. It's stupid tying teleporting in to one tombworld, necrons should be teleporting in lieu of transports. But now I am just wishlisting better ideas then GW is capable of

I guess the silver lining (nice pun right?) is being able to grab cheap as dirt second hand necron units off ebay. Just got 8 well build scythe guard and a lord for $30 They suck now, but if they right the ship I'll have them


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/29 13:39:29


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


There's already a stratagem for kamikaze scarabs though. Which I thought was a nice little reference to that old rule from 2nd (?) ed.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/29 18:57:56


Post by: Blndmage


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Blndmage wrote:
The problem with nuts cuts, is that eventually that will just make us a horde army. That's not the Necrons I started!



I see you didn't start in 3rd ed then

Necrons should probably be like Vampire Counts, imo.
A lot of cheap, gakky units who just serve as a distraction from your real killers.
Warriors and scarabs need to be cheaper, and scarabs should be moved to troops (or no FoC slot) so you can spam them and tie enemies up.

HQ choices and Elites should be absolute powerhouses, as opposed to the wet noodles they are now.


I did start in 3td.
We had 3+ saves, T5 immortals, we were elite like Marines.
I love Silver Tide, but we shouldn't be chaff
Gauss made our sole troop choice effective against everything! We basically did MWs on 6s to hit with all Gauss weapons.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/29 19:46:11


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Oh, you mean hoard in terms of quality. I was thinking in terms of number.

Necrons were always in a weird spot where they weren't quite elite but not quite hoards.

Like, they have marine stats and are expensive points wise, but you really want to field a lot of them in order to use their gauss and We'll be Back rules.

If turning warriors into chaff (even though they sort of already are, just overpriced) or moving scarabs to troops is a no-go, introducing zombies might be a interesting alternative in filling out detachments and screening.

Remember how in 5th ed Necrons had Mind Shackle Scarabs, that got left out in later editions because everyone kept whining about how good it is (because got forbid Necrons survive in Close Combat against smash captains and the like...)?

Well, what if it returned in the form of a unit, of a bunch of poor sods that got mind shackled and turned into a hoard of mindless cannon fodder? They'd be cheap, expendable, worthless in nearly every way except to fill troop slots and screen. It would also go well with the undead theme that necrons are supposed to have going for them, which I feel is getting eroded in favor of Nobility and the like.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/29 19:55:52


Post by: JNAProductions


Something like this?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 00:15:03


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 JNAProductions wrote:
Something like this?


Yeah actually, exactly like that.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 00:17:13


Post by: Red Corsair


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
There's already a stratagem for kamikaze scarabs though. Which I thought was a nice little reference to that old rule from 2nd (?) ed.


Sure and what I was referring to was an in built in rule. Far too many necron gear and rules have been switching into strats and relics rather then just adding flavor and utility to actual units. Scarabs should always detonate on the enemy in combat, I shouldn't need to spend limited CP and roll a random die to see if it works.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 03:27:52


Post by: JNAProductions


 Red Corsair wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
There's already a stratagem for kamikaze scarabs though. Which I thought was a nice little reference to that old rule from 2nd (?) ed.


Sure and what I was referring to was an in built in rule. Far too many necron gear and rules have been switching into strats and relics rather then just adding flavor and utility to actual units. Scarabs should always detonate on the enemy in combat, I shouldn't need to spend limited CP and roll a random die to see if it works.
If that's the case, it should do something like d3 S5 AP-1 D1 hits, NOT mortal wounds.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 03:45:53


Post by: Eonfuzz


 Red Corsair wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
There's already a stratagem for kamikaze scarabs though. Which I thought was a nice little reference to that old rule from 2nd (?) ed.


Sure and what I was referring to was an in built in rule. Far too many necron gear and rules have been switching into strats and relics rather then just adding flavor and utility to actual units. Scarabs should always detonate on the enemy in combat, I shouldn't need to spend limited CP and roll a random die to see if it works.


I really, really do hate all the "cool" rules being shifted into strategems.
Why not just let the units be cool?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 06:37:15


Post by: tneva82


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...FAQs were released, and Necrons didn't get one. I guess that means we're getting a new codex soon?


Or there's not been any confusing questions to be answered. This one didn't do any balance tweaks anyway.

But hey at least necrons didn't get nerfs! Orks got couple nerfs with the update. So it could have been worse


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 DogHeadGod wrote:
I do believe we have top table builds. I doubt the air wing is included in them.


Problem with this statement is currently pretty much high ranking positions DO in fact tend to include the air wing. So game evidence seems to suggest otherwise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh well that's just crap. And counter intuitive, as you'd think you'd get the extra hits.


I would say rolling single 6 being able to cause literally infinite hits is not good for the game.

"Okay you rolled single 6. That explodes to infinite hits. Your warlord titan just died".


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 07:10:59


Post by: vict0988


tneva82 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...FAQs were released, and Necrons didn't get one. I guess that means we're getting a new codex soon?


Or there's not been any confusing questions to be answered. This one didn't do any balance tweaks anyway.

But hey at least necrons didn't get nerfs! Orks got couple nerfs with the update. So it could have been worse

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh well that's just crap. And counter intuitive, as you'd think you'd get the extra hits.


I would say rolling single 6 being able to cause literally infinite hits is not good for the game.

"Okay you rolled single 6. That explodes to infinite hits. Your warlord titan just died".

What nerfs did Orks get?

I'm pretty sure Spy was saying that he wanted the Stratagem to trigger three times for every 6 rolled with tesla weapons, nobody actually wants infinite hits on a hit roll of 6.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 07:51:13


Post by: tneva82


 vict0988 wrote:
What nerfs did Orks get?

I'm pretty sure Spy was saying that he wanted the Stratagem to trigger three times for every 6 rolled with tesla weapons, nobody actually wants infinite hits on a hit roll of 6.


But with the previous FAQ there were marine tricks that literally resulted in infinite hits...so if you want the 3 triggers you would have to accept infinite hits from marine things as it was direct result of that FAQ entry...

As for orks:

a) mad dok no more charges in enemy turn
b) nobz can't take power klaw+kombi weapon any more(albeit tiny issue anyway)
c) say you roll 4 and 3 for charges. You need 8"+ to charge from DS(evil sun). Super critical charge. One that you want to succeed for sure. Before you could do: Use command CP to reroll 3 hoping for 4+. But you roll 3. Drat. Well you could still have used native ork reroll ability to reroll the 4 hoping for 5+ instead. Costs CP yes but sometimes there just is such an important game deciding charge that you are willing to pay that CP to improve your odds a bit. This died in FAQ. Now you have to declare all rerolls before you roll. (also both players have to declare any rerolls they are going to do for roll offs in advance. So if you roll 3 and opponent rolls 1 do you want to reroll that 3? Cant' wait for opponent to reroll first to see)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 08:47:15


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 vict0988 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...FAQs were released, and Necrons didn't get one. I guess that means we're getting a new codex soon?


Or there's not been any confusing questions to be answered. This one didn't do any balance tweaks anyway.

But hey at least necrons didn't get nerfs! Orks got couple nerfs with the update. So it could have been worse

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh well that's just crap. And counter intuitive, as you'd think you'd get the extra hits.


I would say rolling single 6 being able to cause literally infinite hits is not good for the game.

"Okay you rolled single 6. That explodes to infinite hits. Your warlord titan just died".

What nerfs did Orks get?

I'm pretty sure Spy was saying that he wanted the Stratagem to trigger three times for every 6 rolled with tesla weapons, nobody actually wants infinite hits on a hit roll of 6.


Yeah, this. I don't see how you would get infinite hits anyway, as the strat does say that the extra hits generated wouldn't proc extra hits.
This would refer to the tesla procs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Eonfuzz wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
There's already a stratagem for kamikaze scarabs though. Which I thought was a nice little reference to that old rule from 2nd (?) ed.


Sure and what I was referring to was an in built in rule. Far too many necron gear and rules have been switching into strats and relics rather then just adding flavor and utility to actual units. Scarabs should always detonate on the enemy in combat, I shouldn't need to spend limited CP and roll a random die to see if it works.


I really, really do hate all the "cool" rules being shifted into strategems.
Why not just let the units be cool?


Yeah, its not great. What's really egregious is when you have a very useful stratagem that every faction could use being locked to a single faction. Just...why.
GW is doing stratagems all wrong. There should be few stratagems, not 2-3 pages worth of them per codex.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 09:04:59


Post by: Shaelinith


 Red Corsair wrote:

Sure and what I was referring to was an in built in rule. Far too many necron gear and rules have been switching into strats and relics rather then just adding flavor and utility to actual units. Scarabs should always detonate on the enemy in combat, I shouldn't need to spend limited CP and roll a random die to see if it works.


As i sniped Arhiman yesterday with a suicide Scarab, i'm not sure my opponent would be ok with that

But yeah, i hate that we lose so many features/rule being blended in stratagems. In 5th we use to have little customisation on units, but a lot of fun tricks and equipements on characters.

The worse being Tomb World that need stratagem to work (hello Agent of Vect).

I would give Tesla shenanigans and undercosted stratagems like Extermination Protocol for a pass on our units giving them back rules as innate capacity.

Dispersion shield should not be a stratagem.
Deathmark should have the Mark back.
Cryptek should have access to Eldricht Lance and some old funny equipements.
Overlords and Lord should have more customisation (Tackyon Arrow, Mindshackle Scarabs, Tesseract Labyrinth, ...) because right now they are only support characters, it's so sad. Overlord on CCB used to be scary.

I loved the weirdness of our army, right now our most unique featured don't work against good opponent and our superior tech look quite gakky.




Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 09:05:17


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


tneva82 wrote:

c) say you roll 4 and 3 for charges. You need 8"+ to charge from DS(evil sun). Super critical charge. One that you want to succeed for sure. Before you could do: Use command CP to reroll 3 hoping for 4+. But you roll 3. Drat. Well you could still have used native ork reroll ability to reroll the 4 hoping for 5+ instead. Costs CP yes but sometimes there just is such an important game deciding charge that you are willing to pay that CP to improve your odds a bit. This died in FAQ. Now you have to declare all rerolls before you roll. (also both players have to declare any rerolls they are going to do for roll offs in advance. So if you roll 3 and opponent rolls 1 do you want to reroll that 3? Cant' wait for opponent to reroll first to see)


But that's dumb though. What happens if you pass the roll? This new system seems counter intuitive.
For a version that's supposed to be more stream lined than previous editions, it sure is getting convoluted.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 09:31:14


Post by: vict0988


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

c) say you roll 4 and 3 for charges. You need 8"+ to charge from DS(evil sun). Super critical charge. One that you want to succeed for sure. Before you could do: Use command CP to reroll 3 hoping for 4+. But you roll 3. Drat. Well you could still have used native ork reroll ability to reroll the 4 hoping for 5+ instead. Costs CP yes but sometimes there just is such an important game deciding charge that you are willing to pay that CP to improve your odds a bit. This died in FAQ. Now you have to declare all rerolls before you roll. (also both players have to declare any rerolls they are going to do for roll offs in advance. So if you roll 3 and opponent rolls 1 do you want to reroll that 3? Cant' wait for opponent to reroll first to see)


But that's dumb though. What happens if you pass the roll? This new system seems counter intuitive.
For a version that's supposed to be more stream lined than previous editions, it sure is getting convoluted.

I'm not sure how that's convoluted? You either re-roll one or both dice and then that's all the re-rolling done for that roll.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 10:17:37


Post by: IanVanCheese


Given that Eldar flyers and Iron hands look like they're going to be the big hotness moving forwards, where do we stand on the Pylon?

I can see the Pylon eating the void left by the triple doom wing.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 10:28:41


Post by: tneva82


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

c) say you roll 4 and 3 for charges. You need 8"+ to charge from DS(evil sun). Super critical charge. One that you want to succeed for sure. Before you could do: Use command CP to reroll 3 hoping for 4+. But you roll 3. Drat. Well you could still have used native ork reroll ability to reroll the 4 hoping for 5+ instead. Costs CP yes but sometimes there just is such an important game deciding charge that you are willing to pay that CP to improve your odds a bit. This died in FAQ. Now you have to declare all rerolls before you roll. (also both players have to declare any rerolls they are going to do for roll offs in advance. So if you roll 3 and opponent rolls 1 do you want to reroll that 3? Cant' wait for opponent to reroll first to see)


But that's dumb though. What happens if you pass the roll? This new system seems counter intuitive.
For a version that's supposed to be more stream lined than previous editions, it sure is getting convoluted.


Well you know the original result before commiting to rerolls. It's just that you can't reroll one dice and THEN decide you reroll the other. So in effect you decide to reroll one or all first and in this case you would roll just the 1(using native ork reroll) because rolling 4+ on one dice is more likely(50%) than rolling 8+ on 2d6(42%).

Before you could try to reroll one and go for 2nd reroll if that too fails. Now no more that.

Not HUGE nerf(I have yet to succeed in anything but waste of CP trying this ) but nerf nevertheless. Plus the other(albeit small) nerfs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
IanVanCheese wrote:
Given that Eldar flyers and Iron hands look like they're going to be the big hotness moving forwards, where do we stand on the Pylon?

I can see the Pylon eating the void left by the triple doom wing.


Not sure why iron hands would help pylon? Seeing they can halve damage and then add further -1 seems like pylon AT power is getting quite a dent. Spam of -1/-2 D1 weapons that have enough S to hurt vehicles seems better deal.

Seeing I ordered pylon this morning I hope it leads to pylon being better! I just doubt it. But I'm not hopeful with necrons vs numarines anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Yeah, this. I don't see how you would get infinite hits anyway, as the strat does say that the extra hits generated wouldn't proc extra hits.


Tesla isn't only one...There were couple tricks marines could do resulting in infinite hits if that FAQ stands. So if you want the triple tesla you would have to accept marines getting infinite hits. You sure you want that?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 10:52:53


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


tneva82 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

c) say you roll 4 and 3 for charges. You need 8"+ to charge from DS(evil sun). Super critical charge. One that you want to succeed for sure. Before you could do: Use command CP to reroll 3 hoping for 4+. But you roll 3. Drat. Well you could still have used native ork reroll ability to reroll the 4 hoping for 5+ instead. Costs CP yes but sometimes there just is such an important game deciding charge that you are willing to pay that CP to improve your odds a bit. This died in FAQ. Now you have to declare all rerolls before you roll. (also both players have to declare any rerolls they are going to do for roll offs in advance. So if you roll 3 and opponent rolls 1 do you want to reroll that 3? Cant' wait for opponent to reroll first to see)


But that's dumb though. What happens if you pass the roll? This new system seems counter intuitive.
For a version that's supposed to be more stream lined than previous editions, it sure is getting convoluted.


Well you know the original result before commiting to rerolls. It's just that you can't reroll one dice and THEN decide you reroll the other. So in effect you decide to reroll one or all first and in this case you would roll just the 1(using native ork reroll) because rolling 4+ on one dice is more likely(50%) than rolling 8+ on 2d6(42%).

Before you could try to reroll one and go for 2nd reroll if that too fails. Now no more that.

Not HUGE nerf(I have yet to succeed in anything but waste of CP trying this ) but nerf nevertheless. Plus the other(albeit small) nerfs.



Oh, I thought you mean like "I declare I'm going to reroll this single die if it fails"
Yeah, that makes sense.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 11:36:52


Post by: IanVanCheese


tneva82 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Given that Eldar flyers and Iron hands look like they're going to be the big hotness moving forwards, where do we stand on the Pylon?

I can see the Pylon eating the void left by the triple doom wing.


Not sure why iron hands would help pylon? Seeing they can halve damage and then add further -1 seems like pylon AT power is getting quite a dent. Spam of -1/-2 D1 weapons that have enough S to hurt vehicles seems better deal.

Seeing I ordered pylon this morning I hope it leads to pylon being better! I just doubt it. But I'm not hopeful with necrons vs numarines anyway.


How are Iron Hands halfing damage? That only works on Dreadnoughts right? As for the -1, I agree that the best answer is spamming tesla. But the second best option is fewer shot, higher damage weapons. IH are going to be running Repulsors in numbers, Pylon hits and wounds them on 2+.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 11:49:20


Post by: tneva82


What in IH makes fewer shot, higher damage weapons good? Those haven't been the go to in AT department in 8th ed meta long time. What on earth IH have that I have missed where that actually is something to go? Their dreadnoughts absorb damage and invulnerable saves the IH got to their vehicles makes high AP weapons less effective than they were before IH supplement.

I see nothing in IH book that makes high S high damage weapons which were already not the best AT weapons in the game be any better. Only more protection vs those weapons.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 12:11:48


Post by: IanVanCheese


tneva82 wrote:
What in IH makes fewer shot, higher damage weapons good? Those haven't been the go to in AT department in 8th ed meta long time. What on earth IH have that I have missed where that actually is something to go? Their dreadnoughts absorb damage and invulnerable saves the IH got to their vehicles makes high AP weapons less effective than they were before IH supplement.

I see nothing in IH book that makes high S high damage weapons which were already not the best AT weapons in the game be any better. Only more protection vs those weapons.


-1 from all damage taken. If you spam D2 weaponry, you lose 1D from every shot. Higher damage weapons suffer less. 6 damage becomes 5, whereas 3 x 2 damage becomes 3 total. The current AT meta of spamming D2 and D3 weapons is going to fall apart against IH. I think higher damage stuff will make a comeback. Also IH's can get a 5++ sure, but that's the best they can manage. part of the reason high damage stuff sucks is that Knights could get 4++ or even 3++. That's less of an issue with IH. The damage will get through, you just need more of it.

IH have absolutely ruined Tau as they currently stand though, which is nice.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 12:43:08


Post by: vict0988


tneva82 wrote:
What in IH makes fewer shot, higher damage weapons good? Those haven't been the go to in AT department in 8th ed meta long time. What on earth IH have that I have missed where that actually is something to go? Their dreadnoughts absorb damage and invulnerable saves the IH got to their vehicles makes high AP weapons less effective than they were before IH supplement.

I see nothing in IH book that makes high S high damage weapons which were already not the best AT weapons in the game be any better. Only more protection vs those weapons.

A Gauss Pylon does an average of 11 damage to a Repulsor per turn, even if it has a 5+ and -1 damage, the same number of pts worth of Immortals would do 7 damage per turn. You need little more than two wounds to go through and kill a Repulsor, you have a solid chance of one-shotting them. For the Dreadnoughts you shoot DDAs at one of them until your opponent pops the half damage Strat, then shoot the Gauss Pylon at another Dreadnought and finish off that second Dreadnought with your remaining DDAs, flyers, Tesla and you continue ignoring the Dreadnought with the Strat. QD increases durability by 20% against 1 damage (yay for breaking the rules in the design document), 27% against D3 damage and 60% against D6 damage. The SM Dread Strat increases durability by 0% against 1 damage, 50% against D3 damage and 69% against D6 damage. I am just glad we don't have any D2 weapons, nobody wanted to try using Scytheguard or Wraiths against Dreadnoughts right?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 14:02:06


Post by: IanVanCheese


 vict0988 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
What in IH makes fewer shot, higher damage weapons good? Those haven't been the go to in AT department in 8th ed meta long time. What on earth IH have that I have missed where that actually is something to go? Their dreadnoughts absorb damage and invulnerable saves the IH got to their vehicles makes high AP weapons less effective than they were before IH supplement.

I see nothing in IH book that makes high S high damage weapons which were already not the best AT weapons in the game be any better. Only more protection vs those weapons.

A Gauss Pylon does an average of 11 damage to a Repulsor per turn, even if it has a 5+ and -1 damage, the same number of pts worth of Immortals would do 7 damage per turn. You need little more than two wounds to go through and kill a Repulsor, you have a solid chance of one-shotting them. For the Dreadnoughts you shoot DDAs at one of them until your opponent pops the half damage Strat, then shoot the Gauss Pylon at another Dreadnought and finish off that second Dreadnought with your remaining DDAs, flyers, Tesla and you continue ignoring the Dreadnought with the Strat. QD increases durability by 20% against 1 damage (yay for breaking the rules in the design document), 27% against D3 damage and 60% against D6 damage. The SM Dread Strat increases durability by 0% against 1 damage, 50% against D3 damage and 69% against D6 damage. I am just glad we don't have any D2 weapons, nobody wanted to try using Scytheguard or Wraiths against Dreadnoughts right?


This.

I'm not saying a Pylon will have us at the top of the tier list, ruining Iron hands all day every day. They are soooooo good and we already sucked before they turned up. But I think a Pylon is the best switch up to our current tournament lists that we can bring (plus it works well vs Eldar flyers, the other big worry out there at the moment).

Leviathan is currently unkillable (for all intents and purposes), no matter what you bring or what army you play. As it currently stands, your best hope is that they deploy badly and you can hide on the other side of the table and deal with their other units.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 15:46:16


Post by: Dynas


 Latro_ wrote:
Thinking about doing a necrons army, cursory glance at this thread and some blogs and it appears its not a good time for metal guys?

Am i right in thinking to even survive a game in current 8th its:
3x Doom scythes
3x Doomsday arks
immo, overlords and teks
tesla immortals up the wazoo
tomb blades or destroyers

pretty much ignore the rest of the book


Yup. Maybe add Gauss Pylon, Scarabs, Wraiths to the list.

Yeah, ive been looking at the math hammer on the Iron Hands Leviathan dread. T8, 2+,5++,6+++ with half damage and/or the reduce damage by 1. Not to mention they can repair the thing. Its been a tough nut to crack and I very much expect it to be the new "staple" like the castellaten was, but only for SM armies.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 15:56:40


Post by: JNAProductions


4++. It has a native 4+ Invuln.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/09/30 19:04:53


Post by: tneva82


Okay I admit my mistake.

Well good good. The more worthwhile targets there are for pylon the more use I get now that I got one! (Assuming I manage to assemble it without ending up in ruins)

edit: DDA's are worthless vs levi dread but neither pylon fares any better...

3 dda: 3.1111 before FNP
pylon: averages 3.2 wounds before FNP.

Yeah. Just don't shoot at the damn thing. If he has multiple ones you could try to trigger the stratagem and shoots the other but even then you average just 4.1 wounds pre-FNP to the non-stratagem relic.

Guess necrons have 2 options with it. Ignore it and accept casualties or charge it with wraiths. Preferably so it can't move in case it has the warlord trait that allows it to move out of combat in consolidiate move.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/02 19:16:19


Post by: barontuman


Has anyone noticed the quote in the Phoenix rising video that says something about keeping the sleepers forever in their slumber? Seems like a reference to the Necrons to me.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/02 19:19:21


Post by: tneva82


Maybe. But so far fairly reliable rumour monger isn't hinting necrons for first 4 books so necrons would be coming more like Q3 or Q4 of 2020. So plenty time to wait by the look of it :-/


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/02 19:34:51


Post by: barontuman


Realized that I should have put that in the rumor section, so I'll post some meta-theory.

Having only played against Knights a few times, but against a LOT of other armies, I'm rethinking the need for DDAs with the new Leviathan Dread + SM meta, and moving back to my favorite unit, Wraiths.

My new 2k list looks something like this :

Sautek
Cryptek, cloak Warlord, Hyperlogical Strategist, Veil of Darkness
6 Destroyers
6 Destroyers
9 Tomb Blades, Shield Vanes, Nebuloscope

Novokh
Cryptek, cloak
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths
5 Scarabs

Not a lot of subtlety in this list, it's very aggressive. Put everything on the front line, charge forward with the wraiths and shoot stuff with the destroyers.

It's only 5 command points, I might get 6 with the trait. Those will likely be spent on Adaptive Subroutines and Methodical destruction.

Wraiths are good for taking objectives away from people while the other units are ok at holding mid-table objectives. It really struggles against knights however.

How good are the new SM books at dealing with knights? Will we actually see the meta shift from them?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/02 22:36:21


Post by: Shaelinith


barontuman wrote:
Has anyone noticed the quote in the Phoenix rising video that says something about keeping the sleepers forever in their slumber? Seems like a reference to the Necrons to me.

It seems to me that it's from the two parts sentence :

"Death stalks from the Dark City"
"They wish eternal slumber on the sleeping"

I find it weird to be about the necron. My guess would be about the Aeldari conflict, the sleeping being the souls of the infinity circuit of the craftworlds. When an eldar soul pilot a wraithlord/wraithguard they experience reality as a dream (from lexicanum). The sleeping would be all the souls in the infinity circuits.

Quoting lexicanum on Ynnead : "Ynnead itself (the God of the Dead) is supposedly a nascent Eldar god growing in the collective Infinity Circuits of every Craftworld, from the souls of dead Eldar."

We also know that Vect is quite an antagonist to Yvraine and Ynnead and he already on occasion sent Incubi all over the place for his plans.

So my little theory is that this sentence describe Vect searching to stop Ynnead by attacking one way or the other the souls of the craftworlders. Incubi being known for their shattered stones, maybe it's all linked. Or not. Maybe i'm a fool

Back to necrons, as the objective of Psychic Awakening seems to reveal secrets and advance storyline, my bet/wish is more with knowing more about the Silent King that could be tied with some story about Baal and the Tyrannids, or the Void Dragon (the not so secret mega secret) giving us some story with the Mechanicus.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/03 09:58:40


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


"Death Stalks from the Dark City" is a reference to the Dark Eldar.
Commoragh is also known as "The Dark City"

Eternal Slumber on the Sleeping could be a reference to Necrons though.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/03 10:55:11


Post by: IanVanCheese


barontuman wrote:
Realized that I should have put that in the rumor section, so I'll post some meta-theory.

Having only played against Knights a few times, but against a LOT of other armies, I'm rethinking the need for DDAs with the new Leviathan Dread + SM meta, and moving back to my favorite unit, Wraiths.

My new 2k list looks something like this :

Sautek
Cryptek, cloak Warlord, Hyperlogical Strategist, Veil of Darkness
6 Destroyers
6 Destroyers
9 Tomb Blades, Shield Vanes, Nebuloscope

Novokh
Cryptek, cloak
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths
5 Scarabs

Not a lot of subtlety in this list, it's very aggressive. Put everything on the front line, charge forward with the wraiths and shoot stuff with the destroyers.

It's only 5 command points, I might get 6 with the trait. Those will likely be spent on Adaptive Subroutines and Methodical destruction.

Wraiths are good for taking objectives away from people while the other units are ok at holding mid-table objectives. It really struggles against knights however.

How good are the new SM books at dealing with knights? Will we actually see the meta shift from them?


Iron Hands, Ultramarines and Raven Guard all ruin knights pretty hard. Also you're not going to see knights souped into space marine armies anymore, so I think the need to kill knights is decreasing. However, you will need to be able to drop heavily armoured lists, which I think your list will also struggle against. Wraiths are tough and can tag vehicles, but the amount of Str 5 shots marines can put out is crazy and more than enough to whittle them down. Also repulsors can just fly away and shoot you anyway.

The rising tide of codexes is starting to drown us I'm afraid, we need a new book so badly now.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/03 11:17:09


Post by: tneva82


Wraiths don't even make much of dent on ih vehicles. 6 makes like 2-3 wounds for fnp roll. Whee. To kill ih vehicles you need to kill the relic bearer. Likely castled up passing wounds to buddies with stratagem making even doom scythe mw bomb inefficient


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/03 12:23:20


Post by: Red Corsair


They also pretty much auto lose to psychers lol. Mortal wounds really punish them and if your playing any flavor of marines or chaos your probably looking down the barrel of null zone or death hex. Wraiths need double the attacks to be worth trading them, right now a 48 point model that is so one dimensional and easily countered is terrible. They also managed to bone them in the FAQ now they can't phase through/over bunkers and have to pay vertical for walls in ruins. Maybe that was already in the FAQ, but I forgot or missed it, either way that really nails the coffin lid shut for me.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/03 12:33:01


Post by: IanVanCheese


I return to my previous argument. Pylons. Pylons, everywhere.

3 Pylons and 3 DDAs + 2 Crypteks. That's under 2000pts right?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/03 12:58:47


Post by: tneva82


Against that leviathan you cause about 6 wounds after fnp which they heal right away on their turn.

Against repulsor 20 wounds or so with all 4(15 if target doesn't fly) before fnp. Albeit you improve it a bit with command reroll.


1140 pts btw. 30 immortals, overlord and 6 destroyers would fit. Pylon basically replaces doom scythe trio(bit more). Well if gearing vs ih no destroyers. Those are useless vs ih vehicles


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/03 13:16:41


Post by: Red Corsair


They are not great verse primaris in general. Just don't expect to beat the brand new flavor of the month this far out from our release, especially when the book they wrote was a turd.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/03 13:21:48


Post by: tneva82


Non-ih primaris vehicles blow up just fine for destroyers. It's ih ones with -1 damage and 5++ that kills destroyers. 7.77 pre fnp is not great


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/03 13:23:45


Post by: barontuman


I've never had an issue with null-zone, it's only 6 inches, and typically the threat range of the wraiths is enough to charge the caster before it goes into effect, or at least kill it on the charge before going down.

Glad to hear that we'll be seeing less knights. They rather ruined the game for me personally. I hate the larger models and would rather play with "miniatures" instead of "toys"

Mortal wounds from psykers are similar. Scarabs are great for absorbing those, and then the wraiths kill the psykers as well.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/03 13:26:15


Post by: tneva82


I'm less worried about null zone, more about ridic amount of dakka you face which isn't too worried about 3++. Hell charging leviathan has good chance of losing 2 wraiths. About quaranteed if you do charge within 8"(2 heavy flamers)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/03 13:37:55


Post by: barontuman


tneva82 wrote:
I'm less worried about null zone, more about ridic amount of dakka you face which isn't too worried about 3++. Hell charging leviathan has good chance of losing 2 wraiths. About quaranteed if you do charge within 8"(2 heavy flamers)


Agreed. I think for the Leviathan, we just have to admit it's unkillable and move on. Consolidating into it after a charge is always an option, and from then it's just keeping it tied up while killing everything else. I personally think we're going to be seeing lots of Agressors. Destroyers with their better movement and range will be a good counter for those.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/03 13:45:02


Post by: IanVanCheese


The other issue we have is that our snipers are awful, so we can't even take out the characters that are giving the buffs.

The leviathan will be nerfed soon enough anyway (I'm expecting them to just say that you can't use the half damage strat on it, or that damage reducers don't stack).


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2019/10/03 13:50:35


Post by: tneva82


barontuman wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
I'm less worried about null zone, more about ridic amount of dakka you face which isn't too worried about 3++. Hell charging leviathan has good chance of losing 2 wraiths. About quaranteed if you do charge within 8"(2 heavy flamers)


Agreed. I think for the Leviathan, we just have to admit it's unkillable and move on. Consolidating into it after a charge is always an option, and from then it's just keeping it tied up while killing everything else. I personally think we're going to be seeing lots of Agressors. Destroyers with their better movement and range will be a good counter for those.


Issue being it\s packing hell of a punch with our range band(24"). It's going to make mincemeat of any immortal you send anywhere near and can force our dda's to move further away robbing of the main gun :-/

Also IH can make it character with warlord trait of fallback any direction so unless you surround it you can't even tag it. It consolidiates out of combat and shoots freely! Check ahead does he sport that one before sending anything into it.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
IanVanCheese wrote:
The other issue we have is that our snipers are awful, so we can't even take out the characters that are giving the buffs.


You need pretty nasty snipers to get by stratagem that allows friendly guys absorb bullets though. Not many armies can do that. Not even vindicator will get him easily.