Leo_the_Rat wrote: Can someone explain to me what the DA vs BA discussion is doing in this thread?
The title of the thread deals with 10th ed and its starter set.
At the moment there's a bit of a lull in 10th edition rumours, but a bunch of the newer rumours have staked their credibility on the question of the 5th book in the Arks of Omen series - one batch of rumours says that that book throws a curveball and is about the Sanguinor, while several other batches and rumourmongers say it's about the Lion. Solving that question would mean that we know that either batch is probably fake or at least false. So we're debating that right now because we at least get the drip-feed of a new tarot card each friday for sure.
There were rumors awhile back about blood angels and dark angels being group together for some reason. And there was that vision from Arks of Omens about "a knight weeping crimson tears."
My crackpot theory is that the Lion ended up brain dead and the soul of sanguinius inhabits it, thus the model is the lion but it's actually Sanginius
Tsagualsa wrote: Added new stuff to the OP: Beastmen and Primaris and Exodites, oh my!
Two additions here
Says a lot of 10th starter box rumours are fake according to sources he trusts, video on 10th starter box to come next week
He said he wants to clear up with his sources which things he heard are true and which aren't, that's why the video will take until next week
Kill Team: new box called 'Ashes of Faith' with chaos cultists Dark Commune against an unspecified enemy, possibly Exodites
Not 100% Dark Commune in the Ashes of Faith box, he said could be them, could also be the Beastmen so if I understood correctly he knows Ashes of Faith is coming and he knows Beastman and Dark Commune will be in boxes just not which of the two will be in Ashes of Faith
Tsagualsa wrote: Added new stuff to the OP: Beastmen and Primaris and Exodites, oh my!
Two additions here
Says a lot of 10th starter box rumours are fake according to sources he trusts, video on 10th starter box to come next week
He said he wants to clear up with his sources which things he heard are true and which aren't, that's why the video will take until next week
Kill Team: new box called 'Ashes of Faith' with chaos cultists Dark Commune against an unspecified enemy, possibly Exodites
Not 100% Dark Commune in the Ashes of Faith box, he said could be them, could also be the Beastmen so if I understood correctly he knows Ashes of Faith is coming and he knows Beastman and Dark Commune will be in boxes just not which of the two will be in Ashes of Faith
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Can someone explain to me what the DA vs BA discussion is doing in this thread?
The title of the thread deals with 10th ed and its starter set.
At the moment there's a bit of a lull in 10th edition rumours, but a bunch of the newer rumours have staked their credibility on the question of the 5th book in the Arks of Omen series - one batch of rumours says that that book throws a curveball and is about the Sanguinor, while several other batches and rumourmongers say it's about the Lion. Solving that question would mean that we know that either batch is probably fake or at least false. So we're debating that right now because we at least get the drip-feed of a new tarot card each friday for sure.
There were rumors awhile back about blood angels and dark angels being group together for some reason. And there was that vision from Arks of Omens about "a knight weeping crimson tears."
My crackpot theory is that the Lion ended up brain dead and the soul of sanguinius inhabits it, thus the model is the lion but it's actually Sanginius
Me using whatever rules I feel like for my Marines
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Can someone explain to me what the DA vs BA discussion is doing in this thread?
The title of the thread deals with 10th ed and its starter set.
At the moment there's a bit of a lull in 10th edition rumours, but a bunch of the newer rumours have staked their credibility on the question of the 5th book in the Arks of Omen series - one batch of rumours says that that book throws a curveball and is about the Sanguinor, while several other batches and rumourmongers say it's about the Lion. Solving that question would mean that we know that either batch is probably fake or at least false. So we're debating that right now because we at least get the drip-feed of a new tarot card each friday for sure.
There were rumors awhile back about blood angels and dark angels being group together for some reason. And there was that vision from Arks of Omens about "a knight weeping crimson tears."
My crackpot theory is that the Lion ended up brain dead and the soul of sanguinius inhabits it, thus the model is the lion but it's actually Sanginius
The rumour can be tracked back at least to reddit in july of last year - it said that 10th edition will focus on the Imperium Nihilus with 'Angels of Death nostalgia', and 'Angels of Death' was a 2nd edition codex that had rules for both the Blood Angels and Dark Angels chapters and introduced some concepts and characters that have been staples for both chapters ever since.
Valrak, some time later, also mentioned that rumour and that a possible 'Angels of Death' codex may be coming - my personal stance on this is that this could be feasible considering that further chapter supplements are apparently in the works: putting two of them in a single volume under the 'Angels of Death' label for nostalgia's sake is something i can see GW doing for marketing value alone, especially if the supplements are rather thin.
Your crackpot theory is lucidly lunatic - it's something i could see GW doing in a convoluted and misunderstood way that got clarified later on in a novel
As far as Tyranid design changes, I look to the video games, specifically the upcoming Space Marine II
Certain licensing partners get to see things well in advance of them ever gracing our table tops. For instance, I knew about quite a bit of what was in the 5th Ed Grey Knight Codex long before rumours of "Dread Knights" started floating around the Internet because the fine folks at FFG had been working on their Daemonhunter RPG expansion for quite a while and were provided the upcoming GK 'Dex to help writing that book. By the same token, Space Hulk: Deathwing came out not long after Genestealer Cultists returned to 40k, and was chock full of all the things that had only just received new miniatures. They clearly had been given the information in advance to add it to their games.
So what does the Space Marine II's trailer have? Gaunts and Warriors that do not look radically different to the current models. So it is my belief (hope?) that this is a portent of what is to come.
H.B.M.C. wrote: These rules rumours don't sound good at all.
As far as Tyranid design changes, I look to the video games, specifically the upcoming Space Marine II
Certain licensing partners get to see things well in advance of them ever gracing our table tops. For instance, I knew about quite a bit of what was in the 5th Ed Grey Knight Codex long before rumours of "Dread Knights" started floating around the Internet because the fine folks at FFG had been working on their Daemonhunter RPG expansion for quite a while and were provided the upcoming GK 'Dex to help writing that book. By the same token, Space Hulk: Deathwing came out not long after Genestealer Cultists returned to 40k, and was chock full of all the things that had only just received new miniatures. They clearly had been given the information in advance to add it to their games.
So what does the Space Marine II's trailer have? Gaunts and Warriors that do not look radically different to the current models. So it is my belief (hope?) that this is a portent of what is to come.
It doesn't seem like Space Marine 2 got to see the new Imperial Guard designs, though.
- Apparently a combat/boarding patrol box for Imperial Agents is on the way, including an Eversor assassin, Rogue Trader + retinue and Navis breachers
- Codex: Imperial Agents probably coming in 10th
- Says a lot of 10th starter box rumours are fake according to sources he trusts, video on 10th starter box to come next week
- Primaris Chapter Command box is in the works, contents unclear according to sources he trusts - Kill Team: new box called 'Ashes of Faith' with chaos cultists Dark Commune against an unspecified enemy, possibly Exodites
- Beastmen are coming for Kill Team and getting 'lots of love'
- Warhammer World open day will reveal Farsight, the 4th AoO book, possibly some of the stuff above
1. This one is a confirmer. No way you could guess thus
2. With the large amount of random and scattered Imperial Stuff that's come out recently, an Imperial agents codex is a good guess.
3. Obviously!
4. A possible "command" box could be anything.
5. Another Confirmer. An actual named box with confirmed contents is a big guess. However the Dark Commune set alone isn't enough for its own Kill team, so we'll see.
6. Would be cool. Another longshot confirmer. Maybe this is where that new Tzeentch familiar fits, alongside a Tzangor killteam. Maybe not.
7. Back to very obvious guesses.
Tsagualsa wrote: Added new stuff to the OP: Beastmen and Primaris and Exodites, oh my!
My first thought on this was IG Beastmen for Kill Team.
And mine was TraitorIG Beastmen for Kill Team. We all know the Imperium's oppinion on "the mutant".
DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR!!
Yes, but once upon a time :
"Beastman bad. Bad Beastman. Dirty. Emperor no like. Beastman love Emperor. Give blood to Emperor. Give heads to Emperor. Say sorry."
— Packmaster Grasht, attached to the 7th Company, 14th Gratanor Regiment, Imperialis Auxilia during the Great Crusade
Taking into account all of the nostalgia-stuff that has been coming out lately (Squats*, Navy Breachers, Arbites) and looking at the January 3rd
Rumor Engine.. who knows
It doesn't seem like Space Marine 2 got to see the new Imperial Guard designs, though.
A more 'premium' game like Space Marine 2 is very likely going to have a longer development time compared to other Warhammer games. It's entirely possible that new model details weren't finalised in time for last year's trailer to be developed. We could see minor tweaks to things like gaunts in the ~18 months between trailer and release.
Of course it's also possible that the game is deliberately being held back until more details on the 10E launch are made public as a tie-in release, and because it contains some upcoming new units & designs. I'm not expecting any release date for the game before this summer...
Tsagualsa wrote: Added new stuff to the OP: Beastmen and Primaris and Exodites, oh my!
My first thought on this was IG Beastmen for Kill Team.
And mine was TraitorIG Beastmen for Kill Team. We all know the Imperium's oppinion on "the mutant".
DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR!!
Yes, but once upon a time :
"Beastman bad. Bad Beastman. Dirty. Emperor no like. Beastman love Emperor. Give blood to Emperor. Give heads to Emperor. Say sorry."
— Packmaster Grasht, attached to the 7th Company, 14th Gratanor Regiment, Imperialis Auxilia during the Great Crusade
Taking into account all of the nostalgia-stuff that has been coming out lately (Squats*, Navy Breachers, Arbites) and looking at the January 3rd
Rumor Engine.. who knows
*YMMV on this one..
In recent years we've had traitor beastmen with Blackstone fortress and loyalist beastmen in Necromunda, so it's not impossible we could see both (if they happen).
It doesn't seem like Space Marine 2 got to see the new Imperial Guard designs, though.
A more 'premium' game like Space Marine 2 is very likely going to have a longer development time compared to other Warhammer games. It's entirely possible that new model details weren't finalised in time for last year's trailer to be developed. We could see minor tweaks to things like gaunts in the ~18 months between trailer and release.
Of course it's also possible that the game is deliberately being held back until more details on the 10E launch are made public as a tie-in release, and because it contains some upcoming new units & designs. I'm not expecting any release date for the game before this summer...
It's also not entirely unheard of for trailers, especially big event trailers like E3 etc., to have little to no relation to the game that later gets released, swapping some character designs between early trailers and release would be on the tamer side.
So tomorrow seems to be a moment of truth for one rumour. If we're seeing either an Ossiarch Bonereaper or a Seraphon Spawning Pool, the recent Bolter and Chainsword rumour has more weight to it.
Segersgia wrote: So tomorrow seems to be a moment of truth for one rumour. If we're seeing either an Ossiarch Bonereaper or a Seraphon Spawning Pool, the recent Bolter and Chainsword rumour has more weight to it.
Iirc that rumourmonger did not say 'on [this] monday', but 'one of the next mondays', so it does not necessary need to be tomorrow, but any monday. It could be tomorrow, but if it's not that does not directly rule out the rumour.
Sorry for being a bit cocky last time. I was pretty euphoric because I thought I have won in the 40k leak lottery. I got hold on a document that was making the rounds and thought I knew it all. I am not sure, if this document is fake or not but it was wrong, to pretend, that I was some super connected rumour monger.
I don’t know the source of this document. I got it on Disord and I am not the only one who has it. I put the raw *.txt into a proper editor and put some headers in, when I was still convinced I was sitting on the holy grail of leaks. I didn’t put the document out there right away because I was a bit power drunk and wanted to enjoy my spot in the spotlight. All I said last time was taken from this document and a separate snippet, I thought was connected. I do not have any inside knowledge, just the document in the link.
The reasons why I share this now:I think some of the current rumours are clearly feeding off of this document or parts thereof. And it might explain some of the outlandish claims of the past week.
Please do not carry this over to other platforms. And don’t accuse me of spreading false rumours. Even then I was convinced it was the real thing. I am on the fence now. See this as a hobby-historic document for those interested to see how rumours, fake or not, metastasize. It explains why there are suddenly so many different rumours talking about Initiative.
So my apologies for being an idiot last time. I hope I can remedy the situation by giving some insights with this.
Wayniac wrote: What in the holy feth is that. That's... horrendous. Like, words can't describe how awful that will be if that's really 10th edition.
Yikes. Big fething yikes.
If you look at the last couple of pages, it's pretty clear imho that the dude that tried to sell these purported playtesting documents is just some sort of scammer that got increasingly pressuring and threatening once the mark voiced some doubts about all this and was averse on reneging the agreed-on payment
Wayniac wrote: What in the holy feth is that. That's... horrendous. Like, words can't describe how awful that will be if that's really 10th edition.
Yikes. Big fething yikes.
If you look at the last couple of pages, it's pretty clear imho that the dude that tried to sell these purported playtesting documents is just some sort of scammer that got increasingly pressuring and threatening once the mark voiced some doubts about all this and was averse on reneging the agreed-on payment
Wayniac wrote: What in the holy feth is that. That's... horrendous. Like, words can't describe how awful that will be if that's really 10th edition.
Yikes. Big fething yikes.
If you look at the last couple of pages, it's pretty clear imho that the dude that tried to sell these purported playtesting documents is just some sort of scammer that got increasingly pressuring and threatening once the mark voiced some doubts about all this and was averse on reneging the agreed-on payment
Oh thank God
It's not the dumbest scam honestly, if you went around quietly, made up some serious-sounding rumours with the promise of much more and offered it for a couple hundred bucks to interested parties like rumour sites, streamers and so on you could probably make a quick thousand or two-thousand bucks before anyone got wise to your tricks. A couple hundred is small change for some of the more popular youtubers, and they could rationalize it because you could get weeks of streaming content out of this if it was real.
That "leak" seems absolutely fake. Lots of rambling on about stuff with the goal of something from someone, only to at the end become demanding and insulting because they expressed doubt about going through with it, while making out that there's no potential legal issues from it which, if someone had signed an NDA and understood what they were, is just absurd. It seems he was offering them as payment (along with money) for some sort of terrain files?
Mentlegen324 wrote: That "leak" seems absolutely fake. Lots of rambling on about stuff with the goal of something from someone, only to at the end become demanding and insulting because they expressed doubt about going through with it, while making out that there's no potential legal issues from it which, if someone had signed an NDA and understood what they were, is just absurd. It seems he was offering them as payment (along with money) for some sort of terrain files?
As far as i understand it, the 'leaker' opened up the contact by hiring the other party to make them some '10th edition ready' terrain for 280€, then got to discussing the 10th edition terrain rules that he claimed to know, then spun his yarn about all the other stuff he claimed to have, and ended the whole story with wanting to get the terrain in exchange for a handful of 'playtesting files' and promo material, i.e. he tried to scam the other party out of 300 bucks worth of stuff.
Wayniac wrote: What in the holy feth is that. That's... horrendous. Like, words can't describe how awful that will be if that's really 10th edition.
Yikes. Big fething yikes.
If you look at the last couple of pages, it's pretty clear imho that the dude that tried to sell these purported playtesting documents is just some sort of scammer that got increasingly pressuring and threatening once the mark voiced some doubts about all this and was averse on reneging the agreed-on payment
Oh thank God
It's not the dumbest scam honestly, if you went around quietly, made up some serious-sounding rumours with the promise of much more and offered it for a couple hundred bucks to interested parties like rumour sites, streamers and so on you could probably make a quick thousand or two-thousand bucks before anyone got wise to your tricks. A couple hundred is small change for some of the more popular youtubers, and they could rationalize it because you could get weeks of streaming content out of this if it was real.
As far as I can tell, the rumour-monger was giving out the rumours in exchange for a $40
discount on some terrain (presumably 3D printed). The rumours monger agreed to pay $240 but the other party then freaked out about giving a discount due to receiving NDA'd info and said they'd only do it for the original price of $280. It's 50 frigging pages of garbled nonsense rules which honestly sounds like the worst ruleset I've ever seen in my life, but it seems like an awful lot of work (over multiple days it seems) for a $40 discount. Having said that, it's so awful that it *has* to be fake, surely.
Well unless the original AoS management team got a hold of 40K
But yeah more likely someone just running a scam and putting more effort into it in the hope that they'd get a nice pay-day out of it.
Heck if you thought you were going to get a few £100 to £1000 out of a bunch of people you could happily write 50 pages of stuff. Heck break it up to doing a bit here and there and you could easily churn out a whole load of it in not a huge amount of time.
Esp if you go copy-paste big chunks out of peoples wish lists and such.
Wayniac wrote: What in the holy feth is that. That's... horrendous. Like, words can't describe how awful that will be if that's really 10th edition.
Yikes. Big fething yikes.
If you look at the last couple of pages, it's pretty clear imho that the dude that tried to sell these purported playtesting documents is just some sort of scammer that got increasingly pressuring and threatening once the mark voiced some doubts about all this and was averse on reneging the agreed-on payment
Oh thank God
It's not the dumbest scam honestly, if you went around quietly, made up some serious-sounding rumours with the promise of much more and offered it for a couple hundred bucks to interested parties like rumour sites, streamers and so on you could probably make a quick thousand or two-thousand bucks before anyone got wise to your tricks. A couple hundred is small change for some of the more popular youtubers, and they could rationalize it because you could get weeks of streaming content out of this if it was real.
As far as I can tell, the rumour-monger was giving out the rumours in exchange for a $40
discount on some terrain (presumably 3D printed). The rumours monger agreed to pay $240 but the other party then freaked out about giving a discount due to receiving NDA'd info and said they'd only do it for the original price of $280. It's 50 frigging pages of garbled nonsense rules which honestly sounds like the worst ruleset I've ever seen in my life, but it seems like an awful lot of work (over multiple days it seems) for a $40 discount. Having said that, it's so awful that it *has* to be fake, surely.
These scams usually work by nickling and diming you in several steps, first it's a 40$ discount, then there's another one after you get shown *one* of the files and so on, and long after the initial transaction is done they offer you a full rulebook or a complete box or whatever for e.g. 500$ or something, the initial stuff is only to build a rapport and trust, and to weed out the people that are ultimately not dumb enough to fall for something like this.
Dudeface wrote: Oddly I don't doubt that conversation potentially happened. I just think it's utter rubbish.
That communication sounds quite genuine, as it seems nonsensical in a very 'real' way, i.e. it's random and meandering in an way that actual humans talk with each other, with random side discussions, repeated parts, misunderstandings and so on. Also, some of the stuff in there seems to have informed other rumours, the things about the Sanguinor for example seem to have led to the burner account dude on Bolter&Chainsword. Of course, all of that may be the same person, or several persons, we have no way of knowing that. But i don't think it is totally out of the question that someone is going around in the periphery of the hobby and slinging his made-up documents to random people for a handful of dollars here and there.
drbored wrote: Would be nice if we could not get lists of really fake gobledeegook for like... a week.
We'll get some teasers soon, Adepticon next month, and hopefully that'll weed out a lot of the junk.
Gives us something to talk about at least
The wise man speaks because he has something to say; the fool speaks because he has to say something.
Personally, I'm okay with not talking if it means not having to discuss patently false 'rumors'.
I'm content-agnostic in archiving all that stuff - i'd exclude proven-fake stuff, but as long as it is a rumour and not proven fake it's going in for the time being. If we're deliberately being swamped with targeted nonsense that may change, but for now i'm logging what we're getting.
Several of the folks involved in codex leaks via Discord for the last couple of years have said that the 10E launch focuses on BA vs nids. However as far as I'm aware none of them have shared on details on the specific rules or models involved.
xttz wrote: Several of the folks involved in codex leaks via Discord for the last couple of years have said that the 10E launch focuses on BA vs nids. However as far as I'm aware none of them have shared on details on the specific rules or models involved.
That it is an older rumor makes me believe it more. GW was lining up Necrons for 9th almost as soon as 8th was out the door.
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Tsagualsa wrote: It's not the dumbest scam honestly, if you went around quietly, made up some serious-sounding rumours with the promise of much more and offered it for a couple hundred bucks to interested parties like rumour sites, streamers and so on you could probably make a quick thousand or two-thousand bucks before anyone got wise to your tricks. A couple hundred is small change for some of the more popular youtubers, and they could rationalize it because you could get weeks of streaming content out of this if it was real.
And once again the community has to learn the lengths that gaks will go to make gak up for fun or otherwise.
New video from Valrak about the 10th boxset from his sources
-Terminators "huge thing" in the boxset, no info if Primaris or Firstborn
-Terminator Chaptain and Terminator Librarian
-about their design: bulky, more action poses
-Incinerators? new flame squad, like black templar pyreblaster
-New Veteran Squad, "more ranged type"
-New ranged only Dreadnought, lascannons and rockets, maybe "chonkier" - This one for range, redemptor as middle ground and brutalis as melee version
-NO jump assault marines, will be coming but not in boxset, no idea when
-generic ultramarines paint scheme
-still gathering Tyranid info, another video in the next weeks
I can sort of see that. The thing about jump pack marines in the starter set is that jump packs are a relatively advanced movement mechanic for a starter box, so they've always been an odd pick. Whereas Terminators are just marines, mechanics wise. And we've been told before that Ultramarines are the general poster boys for starter box sets because GW feels that blue is easy to paint compared to red, so I can't really see that changing.
-Terminators "huge thing" in the boxset, no info if Primaris or Firstborn
-Terminator Chaptain and Terminator Librarian
-about their design: bulky, more action poses
-Incinerators? new flame squad, like black templar pyreblaster
-New Veteran Squad, "more ranged type"
-New ranged only Dreadnought, lascannons and rockets, maybe "chonkier" - This one for range, redemptor as middle ground and brutalis as melee version
-NO jump assault marines, will be coming but not in boxset, no idea when
-generic ultramarines paint scheme
-still gathering Tyranid info, another video in the next weeks
Duely added to the OP; thanks for writing the summary!
The shift towards Ultramarines in the starter box seems to come out of the left field and throws a lot of shade on most of the other rumours. Very interesting!
Personally i think these are true, because having yet another stupidly redone dreadnought that's basically an 'old dreadnought+' just like the Brutalis is a redone Furioso seems like the change for change's sake that's at the core of the Primaris/Marine lineup at the moment.
Tsagualsa wrote: Personally i think these are true, because having yet another stupidly redone dreadnought that's basically an 'old dreadnought+' just like the Brutalis is a redone Furioso seems like the change for change's sake that's at the core of the Primaris/Marine lineup at the moment.
But think of the modeling opportunities! A Mortis Castraferrum standing on a massive pile of corpses? Two Mortis Castraferrum in a trenchcoat? It's hard to choose. Maybe I'll make one of each.
Having every commander be a terminator seems odd at this point, unless GW is aiming at a space-hulk like release... Which wouldn't be too far off given the Arks of Omen thing.
LostTemplar wrote: Having every commander be a terminator seems odd at this point, unless GW is aiming at a space-hulk like release... Which wouldn't be too far off given the Arks of Omen thing.
If the majority of the contents are in Terminator armor, it would make sense to have the leaders match. There was the box with Phobos that had the captain, lieutenant and librarian all in phobos armor as well.
I'm having a big laugh if every single one of the Blood Angel / Dark Angel type rumours has been fake or made up
Good fun for chatting about but yeah, these "rumour aggregators" are no more credible than spikey bits copy pastas back then.
Full of nada.
My largest nitpick with the 'aggregators' and among the reasons why i made the thread is that the aggregators, and Valrak specifically, nonchalantly go over all their failed predictions or hedge their bets by going 'Remember every rumour is a lie till it's confirmend, i'm just passing on stuff, washing my hands in innocence here'. It get's ridiculous really fast, to the point that the community has a conflicting opinion on how good a given outlet's track record actually is because no-one remembers the 10 failed predictions, but everybody harps on and on about the couple that came true. Once 10th is released, i'm gonna write a nice little after-action-report on that rumour season, using the chronological list as a scoreboard. That should settle that question.
Yeah it makes me think of the pre AOS rumors. “Boxset comes with a thief, a rogue, a wizard. The new setting is a bunch of floating islands or bubbles .”
I’m still hopeful the Lion will leak soon though. The other major primarchs, save for maybe Bobby G, all had pretty big leaks. I think mort may have been the worst
GaroRobe wrote: Yeah it makes me think of the pre AOS rumors. “Boxset comes with a thief, a rogue, a wizard. The new setting is a bunch of floating islands or bubbles .”
I’m still hopeful the Lion will leak soon though. The other major primarchs, save for maybe Bobby G, all had pretty big leaks. I think mort may have been the worst
Apparently there's a rumour dating back to from before Magnus was released, by Hastings of all people, that the primarchs would be returning and the order they've been working on them was Magnus, Guilliman, Mortarion, Angron and Russ If that turns out to be true via that 'Tree of Life' stuff...
I'm having a big laugh if every single one of the Blood Angel / Dark Angel type rumours has been fake or made up
Good fun for chatting about but yeah, these "rumour aggregators" are no more credible than spikey bits copy pastas back then.
Full of nada.
My largest nitpick with the 'aggregators' and among the reasons why i made the thread is that the aggregators, and Valrak specifically, nonchalantly go over all their failed predictions or hedge their bets by going 'Remember every rumour is a lie till it's confirmend, i'm just passing on stuff, washing my hands in innocence here'. It get's ridiculous really fast, to the point that the community has a conflicting opinion on how good a given outlet's track record actually is because no-one remembers the 10 failed predictions, but everybody harps on and on about the couple that came true. Once 10th is released, i'm gonna write a nice little after-action-report on that rumour season, using the chronological list as a scoreboard. That should settle that question.
Valrak has definitely got a few things right in the past but at this point he's stated so many very different things, even some that seem contradictory to what he said before, that it's just getting quite absurd. It's like he just says whatever he hears and then goes "They're just rumours, just because I trust them doesn't mean you have to!" as if that's all that matters and means he gets absolved of all responsibility with the claims.
Unless he actually says stuff is from those same sources who have got things fairly correct previously, it's pretty pointless to use his past rumours as an indicator of credibility.
I'm having a big laugh if every single one of the Blood Angel / Dark Angel type rumours has been fake or made up
Good fun for chatting about but yeah, these "rumour aggregators" are no more credible than spikey bits copy pastas back then.
Full of nada.
My largest nitpick with the 'aggregators' and among the reasons why i made the thread is that the aggregators, and Valrak specifically, nonchalantly go over all their failed predictions or hedge their bets by going 'Remember every rumour is a lie till it's confirmend, i'm just passing on stuff, washing my hands in innocence here'. It get's ridiculous really fast, to the point that the community has a conflicting opinion on how good a given outlet's track record actually is because no-one remembers the 10 failed predictions, but everybody harps on and on about the couple that came true. Once 10th is released, i'm gonna write a nice little after-action-report on that rumour season, using the chronological list as a scoreboard. That should settle that question.
Valrak has definitely got a few things right in the past but at this point he's stated so many very different things, even some that seem contradictory to what he said before, that it's just getting quite absurd. It's like he just says whatever he hears and then goes "They're just rumours, just because I trust them doesn't mean you have to!" as if that's all that matters and means he gets absolved of all responsibility with the claims.
Unless he actually says stuff is from those same sources who have got things fairly correct previously, it's pretty pointless to use his past rumours as an indicator of credibility.
To be honest he does get absolved of all responsibility, because they're rumours about warhammer, they have no real world impact or responsibilities associated with them. It wouldn't matter if he presented them to you or his sources, or random burner accounts or whatever presents them.
Maybe I'm just less bothered about it but it seems odd to get that invested and angry about who tells you what about hypothetical releases or changes to warhammer and its about time people stopped being bitter at people who provide content to discuss.
Note this is not the same as tracking rumour veracity, if a source is given and seeing how reliable someone is, is still valid.
Unless he actually says stuff is from those same sources who have got things fairly correct previously, it's pretty pointless to use his past rumours as an indicator of credibility.
We're keeping track of specifically that as well, after the season we'll see if his trusted sources have a significantly better track record than the others. Signs point to 'yes' for now, but the proof of the pudding has yet to arrive for a lot of their predictions.
Level 1: "This has been floating about the internet" "This got sent in to me"
Level 2: "A source has told me"
Level 3: "This is coming from a source I absolutely trust"
The latest seems to be Level 2 - a real/named source, but not his insider at GWHQ specifically.
In terms of likeliness, it does fit in with the other rumour that the Primaris/First Born distinction was going away, and Terminator Captain, Terminator Librarian, 5-10 Terminators, 5-10 Incinerators, 10 Veteran Intercessors and a Redemptor Mortis Dreadnought would be the ballpark of a starter box.
Has anyone yet claimed to know the colour of the Tyranids in the forthcoming box? Are they going to remain their current white, or try something new? If there are Terminators in the box, they probably won't be Dark Angels to avoid too similar a colour scheme, and GW will probably want to have the opposing sides in contrasting colour schemes.
Shakalooloo wrote: Has anyone yet claimed to know the colour of the Tyranids in the forthcoming box? Are they going to remain their current white, or try something new? If there are Terminators in the box, they probably won't be Dark Angels to avoid too similar a colour scheme, and GW will probably want to have the opposing sides in contrasting colour schemes.
Iirc some of the more detailled rumours said Leviathan scheme, but don't pin me down on it.
Shakalooloo wrote: Has anyone yet claimed to know the colour of the Tyranids in the forthcoming box? Are they going to remain their current white, or try something new? If there are Terminators in the box, they probably won't be Dark Angels to avoid too similar a colour scheme, and GW will probably want to have the opposing sides in contrasting colour schemes.
Iirc some of the more detailled rumours said Leviathan scheme, but don't pin me down on it.
The warriors in the boarding patrol box are repainted stock models which is unusual with no context. So it seems the scheme will see a minor change based on the weapon colouration.
GaroRobe wrote: Yeah it makes me think of the pre AOS rumors. “Boxset comes with a thief, a rogue, a wizard. The new setting is a bunch of floating islands or bubbles .”
My favorite part about that era was everyone decrying bubble dimensions as the worst thing. Fun Fact: Teclis talks about alternate realities and dimensions in Giantslayer(written way back during the 6th ed Albion campaign) and literally describes them as bubble dimensions, so that was already something that existed in the Warhammer universe.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I would love to see Russ come out instead of the Lion. Lot more story potential there.
Even more story potential from Corax coming back.
Will Corax return?
Quoth the Raven: "Nevermore".
I forget the book, but post Guillamans return, a rune priest v did a ritual to see if Russ was coming back. He saw:
A raven, a sleeping knight, and a white lightning bolt. But no Russ
MajorWesJanson wrote: I would love to see Russ come out instead of the Lion. Lot more story potential there.
Even more story potential from Corax coming back.
Will Corax return?
Quoth the Raven: "Nevermore".
I do believe that Corax will come back as a plastic model for 40k.
This will not be soon. It will be something like 15-20 years from now. The average pace seems to be about 2 years per primarch, either chaos or loyalist, with some longer stretches between them and some less so.
Eventually, in order to keep hype going for their main 'good guy' and main 'bad guy' in the world, they will bring them all back in some way or another. Obviously Ferrus Manus, Sanguinius, and Curze will be a bit different, but I absolutely see them bringing back Perturabo, Lorgar, Corax, Vulkan, Russ, Dorn, etc. This is simply the path that GW have chosen, and as long as people are buying the primarchs (along with the armies they come with) then it makes no sense for them to stop.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I would love to see Russ come out instead of the Lion. Lot more story potential there.
Even more story potential from Corax coming back.
Will Corax return?
Quoth the Raven: "Nevermore".
I forget the book, but post Guillamans return, a rune priest v did a ritual to see if Russ was coming back. He saw:
A raven, a sleeping knight, and a white lightning bolt. But no Russ
Magnus said he knows where Russ is (in Wrath of Magnus iirc) and he (Russ) seems to have some connection to Valdor, who's seemingly getting expanded on in the Abnettverse, so it seems they have something planned for Russ.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I would love to see Russ come out instead of the Lion. Lot more story potential there.
Even more story potential from Corax coming back.
Will Corax return?
Quoth the Raven: "Nevermore".
I forget the book, but post Guillamans return, a rune priest v did a ritual to see if Russ was coming back. He saw:
A raven, a sleeping knight, and a white lightning bolt. But no Russ
Ashes of Prospero. He seems those Primarchs because they're the ones we have an answer for regarding their whereabouts or have been indicated to still be alive, it's not suggesting anything about them actually coming back.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Plans can change. Chaos Undead was once planned for Fantasy after all.
Sure plans can change. Kinda interesting though that that he's been on target into 2023 with a post made back in 2016(?). Think it suggests things haven't deviated too much.
It probable helps that they are Imperials and Marines - so basically GW's strongest model block overall.
I'm sure there are AoS plans started 5 years ago that were abandoned or significantly changed for various reasons - same too for other games and other armies. Even without the Pandemic throwing everything out of order
Overread wrote: It probable helps that they are Imperials and Marines - so basically GW's strongest model block overall.
I'm sure there are AoS plans started 5 years ago that were abandoned or significantly changed for various reasons - same too for other games and other armies. Even without the Pandemic throwing everything out of order
With 'monumental' stuff like the Primarchs, it's probably not out of the question that they got designed closer together than their release schedule would indicate, just to have the models have a certain coherency in design. It could have been the models, or it could have been the general concept and art work, long before any actual models. Who knows, there could even be some sort of sketchbook in the vein of 'The Primarchs, as they are on the eve of the 41st millenium' with a bunch of finished concepts that get 'translated' to models piece by piece.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Plans can change. Chaos Undead was once planned for Fantasy after all.
Sure plans can change. Kinda interesting though that that he's been on target into 2023 with a post made back in 2016(?). Think it suggests things haven't deviated too much.
I mean the order is ok and fairly impressive but it's not like the daemon primarchs of the chaos gods are hard to predict. He did follow it up iirc and explained he saw very early design material and that some of them had been scrapped and resculpted by the time he bowed out.
gorgon wrote: If you go back several years, the inimitable Hastings' prediction on primarchs for 40K (while commenting on the plastic Ahriman sprue) was:
Looks good, I’m looking forward to seeing Magnus, Angron, Mortarion, Russ & Guilliman now
He nailed 4 out of the 5 so far. So I expect Russ is coming. And it goes to show you how far in advance some of this stuff is planned.
I mean, three of those five are each related to the big four chaos gods, and a forth is the poster boy for the poster boys who was also known to be 'alive' it wasn't exactly a stretch. I'm willing to stick my head out and say Fulgrim is coming eventually, and if the Lion does actually return I'd bet on Russ as well as Spacewolves are one of the 'own codex' chapters.
gorgon wrote: If you go back several years, the inimitable Hastings' prediction on primarchs for 40K (while commenting on the plastic Ahriman sprue) was:
Looks good, I’m looking forward to seeing Magnus, Angron, Mortarion, Russ & Guilliman now
He nailed 4 out of the 5 so far. So I expect Russ is coming. And it goes to show you how far in advance some of this stuff is planned.
I mean, three of those five are each related to the big four chaos gods, and a forth is the poster boy for the poster boys who was also known to be 'alive' it wasn't exactly a stretch. I'm willing to stick my head out and say Fulgrim is coming eventually, and if the Lion does actually return I'd bet on Russ as well as Spacewolves are one of the 'own codex' chapters.
Aye - the four god-specific Primarchs are a pretty safe bet, and if you're propositioning that loyal Primarchs would return it's very logical that they'd start with the chapters that have their own books, barring Sanguinius mostly because he's the deadest anyone besides Horus can currently be in the setting.
Aye - the four god-specific Primarchs are a pretty safe bet, and if you're propositioning that loyal Primarchs would return it's very logical that they'd start with the chapters that have their own books, barring Sanguinius mostly because he's the deadest anyone besides Horus can currently be in the setting.
Thankfully they've been seeding the context for 'definitely not Sanguinius, we promise' supernatural manifestation that can serve the same purpose of selling large shiny models. Also has nice added touch of thematically fitting in smaller scale battles and how it can show up every second battle despite having been blasted off the board the one before.
But getting back to rumours, I wonder if one of the bits of confusion is just because of the number of boxsets GW puts out these days. Without context, a photo of boxset that is just one of their 'vs' boxsets could also look like a smaller new starter set (say command edition rather than Indomitus.) Back in the day there was really only the one starter set for an edition, but now I can definitely see them doing a series of limited run ones like they do with Kill-Team
Malika2 wrote: Aren’t we all curious about a M41 version of Perturabo?
No, not really - he's not very interesting.
I'd rank him above Lorgar, but that's not saying much.
Yeah. Plus it would mean that GW would actually have to commit on the Undivided Chaos question.
Corax has a similar, but even more pronounced problem on the Imperium side. He exists, legion has some basic traits (sneaky boys!) that some players would know, but... that's about it.
The Raven Guard have been an 'also ran' Chapter ever since GW decided there were first founding chapters. That's a pretty forgettable base to build a primarch release on. At least with Perty, lots of people actually care about the legion he's attached to.
gorgon wrote: If you go back several years, the inimitable Hastings' prediction on primarchs for 40K (while commenting on the plastic Ahriman sprue) was:
Looks good, I’m looking forward to seeing Magnus, Angron, Mortarion, Russ & Guilliman now
He nailed 4 out of the 5 so far. So I expect Russ is coming. And it goes to show you how far in advance some of this stuff is planned.
I mean, three of those five are each related to the big four chaos gods, and a forth is the poster boy for the poster boys who was also known to be 'alive' it wasn't exactly a stretch. I'm willing to stick my head out and say Fulgrim is coming eventually, and if the Lion does actually return I'd bet on Russ as well as Spacewolves are one of the 'own codex' chapters.
I'm sorry, but isn't this obvious?
By now it's obvious, to me at least, that they're going to be introducing a lot of the Primarchs into 40k. They've been doing it for a long time already. I've got a bare bones knowledge of the lore, but I would suggest we'll eventually have even numbers of Chaos/Non Chaos Primarchs. People love Space Marines and they love centre pieces for their armies. I'd guess 5 each side for 10 total.
Malika2 wrote: Aren’t we all curious about a M41 version of Perturabo?
No, not really - he's not very interesting.
I'd rank him above Lorgar, but that's not saying much.
Yeah. Plus it would mean that GW would actually have to commit on the Undivided Chaos question.
Corax has a similar, but even more pronounced problem on the Imperium side. He exists, legion has some basic traits (sneaky boys!) that some players would know, but... that's about it.
The Raven Guard have been an 'also ran' Chapter ever since GW decided there were first founding chapters. That's a pretty forgettable base to build a primarch release on. At least with Perty, lots of people actually care about the legion he's attached to.
Contrarily, Corax being a giant loyalist daemon bird actually makes him the most interesting to bring back.
Malika2 wrote: Aren’t we all curious about a M41 version of Perturabo?
No, not really - he's not very interesting.
I'd rank him above Lorgar, but that's not saying much.
Yeah. Plus it would mean that GW would actually have to commit on the Undivided Chaos question.
Corax has a similar, but even more pronounced problem on the Imperium side. He exists, legion has some basic traits (sneaky boys!) that some players would know, but... that's about it.
The Raven Guard have been an 'also ran' Chapter ever since GW decided there were first founding chapters. That's a pretty forgettable base to build a primarch release on. At least with Perty, lots of people actually care about the legion he's attached to.
Contrarily, Corax being a giant loyalist daemon bird actually makes him the most interesting to bring back.
Even he's somehow a loyalist daemon now (which... ), what about that makes him interesting? How does he interact with imperial forces without immediately getting shot in the face?
Dawnbringer wrote: . I'm willing to stick my head out and say Fulgrim is coming eventually, and if the Lion does actually return I'd bet on Russ as well as Spacewolves are one of the 'own codex' chapters.
I'm sorry, but isn't this obvious?
And here I thought Brits were renowned for their sarcasm...
By now it's obvious, to me at least, that they're going to be introducing a lot of the Primarchs into 40k. They've been doing it for a long time already. I've got a bare bones knowledge of the lore, but I would suggest we'll eventually have even numbers of Chaos/Non Chaos Primarchs. People love Space Marines and they love centre pieces for their armies. I'd guess 5 each side for 10 total.
I mean, until Guilliman showed up (though that was almost six years ago now, man I'm getting old) the lore on the Primarchs hinted that some could return but it was never acted on (For loyalists; the Chaos ones have showed up in lore to be banished from time to time, see 1st War for Armageddon).
I'd be surprised if we get more than the big Four Chaos ones (though perhaps you can count Abbadon as a fifth). As someone else stated they don't really seem to know how to do Chaos undivided very well.
For the loyalists I just suspect it'll be the big four, the three that get own codexs, plus Ultras. That said I do think it's more about big centre piece models to sell than lore, so I'd suspect something for Black Templars (who never had Primarch, being an offshoot of Imperial Fists, but who do tend to get thier own Codex) before say Khan coming back, noting they haven't yet even bothered put their special character onto a bike yet.
Tsagualsa wrote: Apparently there's a rumour dating back to from before Magnus was released, by Hastings of all people, that the primarchs would be returning and the order they've been working on them was Magnus, Guilliman, Mortarion, Angron and Russ If that turns out to be true via that 'Tree of Life' stuff...
I mean, I trust Hastings as a source - and so far that order's correct! It'd be good to see Russ come back for the Wolftime. They'll probably do new 13th Company as well if that's the case.
Interestingly what happened to Corax has an entire page at the end of the First Founding book that came out at the weekend, and puts a bit of a different spin on it...
The Phazer wrote: Interestingly what happened to Corax has an entire page at the end of the First Founding book that came out at the weekend, and puts a bit of a different spin on it...
The Phazer wrote: Interestingly what happened to Corax has an entire page at the end of the First Founding book that came out at the weekend, and puts a bit of a different spin on it...
Definitely want to know as well please
Corax is one of my fave primarchs and the whole lore of him being this shadow daemon hunting Lorgar is fantastic.
There's also the lore of him creating monstrosities in trying to bulk up his legion numbers but having to put them down in the end. There's great nuggets there, but GW doesn't shine a lot of light on the sneaky boys.
It does mention the theory Corax went chasing into the Eye, but it also spends several paragraphs discussing another theory, that he's still on Deliverance, in the Ravenspire, having locked himself away in stasis. And then suggests that he has become a being of pure shadow.
First Founding is fantastic if you still have a chance to pick it up by the way. Best lore book GW have done for ages.
Would be a LITTLE disappointed if, when it's finally time for Corax to get a model some 20 years from now, GW just go 'he was in stasis all along and now he's awake' instead of the possible shadow-entity lore and modeling opportunities.
Dawnbringer wrote: . I'm willing to stick my head out and say Fulgrim is coming eventually, and if the Lion does actually return I'd bet on Russ as well as Spacewolves are one of the 'own codex' chapters.
I'm sorry, but isn't this obvious?
And here I thought Brits were renowned for their sarcasm...
By now it's obvious, to me at least, that they're going to be introducing a lot of the Primarchs into 40k. They've been doing it for a long time already. I've got a bare bones knowledge of the lore, but I would suggest we'll eventually have even numbers of Chaos/Non Chaos Primarchs. People love Space Marines and they love centre pieces for their armies. I'd guess 5 each side for 10 total.
I mean, until Guilliman showed up (though that was almost six years ago now, man I'm getting old) the lore on the Primarchs hinted that some could return but it was never acted on (For loyalists; the Chaos ones have showed up in lore to be banished from time to time, see 1st War for Armageddon).
I'd be surprised if we get more than the big Four Chaos ones (though perhaps you can count Abbadon as a fifth). As someone else stated they don't really seem to know how to do Chaos undivided very well.
For the loyalists I just suspect it'll be the big four, the three that get own codexs, plus Ultras. That said I do think it's more about big centre piece models to sell than lore, so I'd suspect something for Black Templars (who never had Primarch, being an offshoot of Imperial Fists, but who do tend to get thier own Codex) before say Khan coming back, noting they haven't yet even bothered put their special character onto a bike yet.
Yeah. Something along those lines would be my expectation.
Before Big-G showed up it wasn't obvious, I'm just saying by now it would be surprising not to get them.
The Lion makes the most sense , he can effectively blackmail Gulliman with his knowledge of Imperium Secundus.
I’m still super sceptical that Tyranids are in the 10th set because rumours about new editions often end up being wrong. Even if Valrak has a source in GWHQ then it’s lowly they give false information as of GW discovers they’ve been doing it they lose their job. What’s the motivation of his source ??
People are really, really, really bad at keeping secrets. There is not much more to it, tell someone a secret and the literal moment you turn your back to them they'll sprint out of the room to tell it to the maximum number of people available in the vicinity. Many people rationalize it after the fact in some fashion, but the truth of it is that knowing and telling other people's secrets just feels good, man. Add to that that most people are about as dumb as box of rocks outside of a very narrow corridor of expertise, and last thought-through the consequences of their actions some time in 1986, and presto, there's your leaker.
They should just do a multipart(multioptional?) Primarch kit for the loyalists. 3 or 4 different but noncomittal breastplates to chose from. A handfull of weapons, a couple of helmets, and screaming bald guy/stern crewcut/snarling mohawk heads.
Tactical rock base with dead chaos marines included.
Fayric wrote: They should just do a multipart(multioptional?) Primarch kit for the loyalists. 3 or 4 different but noncomittal breastplates to chose from. A handfull of weapons, a couple of helmets, and screaming bald guy/stern crewcut/snarling mohawk heads.
Tactical rock base with dead chaos marines included.
Im only half joking here
Eh, with many of their writers coming from comic books and being deeply immersed in the relevant genre conventions, i'll bet we'll sooner or later see:
- False Primarchs / Primarch Imposters - Literally 'The War of the False Primarch', also: Alpharius
- Clone Primarchs - Fulgrim, Ferrus
- Redeemed 'Evil' Primarchs - Clonegrim, also Parts of Magnus
- Fallen 'Good' Primarchs - Parts of Ferrus/Sapphire King
- Alternate Universe Primarchs - Possibly Horus after his trip to Molech with the Emperor
- Hidden Secret Primarchs - The missing two of course, also the 3rd Alpharius/Omegon brother that was planned for some time, but then decided against
And that is just a handful of blatant examples, there could be more.
We also have at least 7 Primarchs that are functionally immortal, 6 Traitors and 1 Loyalist, 2 that are not, but got resurrected from literal death anyway, one additional that got resurrected from quasi-death, another two that have weird phantoms or revenants...
For those keeping tabs on stuff like this, Spicey Clickbait has 'found' the document that got shown in this very thread, apparently by a slight detour over the spanish blog Miniwars. Needless to say, they're hyping the 'leaks' up without a shred of critical thinking
Other than that, not much is happening at the moment, but rest assured that i'm regularly checking all the usual outlets and this thread. We all can look forward to another Tarot Card today and more reveals tomorrow, which is probably also part of the reason why some of the more 'creative' rumourmongers hedge their bets for now.
ClockWorkChris (who leaked CSM codex among other stuff) says that the 50 page chat log is based on real info, but not as crazy as it sounds. He believes that the log has been put through Google Translate at some point causing some things to be unclear.
Korkin (leaked Tyranid & Daemon codex details) says he cannot confirm or deny 10e rules leaks. However he's heard that "there will be something very similar" to indexes at the start of 10th, and added "I just don't like the term 'indexes' because it has a lot of connotations that come with it that aren't necessarily true". That implies whatever we get won't work the same way as the start of 8th.
ClockWorkChris (who leaked CSM codex among other stuff) says that the 50 page chat log is based on real info, but not as crazy as it sounds. He believes that the log has been put through Google Translate at some point causing some things to be unclear.
Korkin (leaked Tyranid & Daemon codex details) says he cannot confirm or deny 10e rules leaks. However he's heard that "there will be something very similar" to indexes at the start of 10th, and added "I just don't like the term 'indexes' because it has a lot of connotations that come with it that aren't necessarily true". That implies whatever we get won't work the same way as the start of 8th.
Malika2 wrote: Aren’t we all curious about a M41 version of Perturabo?
No, not really - he's not very interesting.
I'd rank him above Lorgar, but that's not saying much.
Yeah. Plus it would mean that GW would actually have to commit on the Undivided Chaos question.
Corax has a similar, but even more pronounced problem on the Imperium side. He exists, legion has some basic traits (sneaky boys!) that some players would know, but... that's about it.
The Raven Guard have been an 'also ran' Chapter ever since GW decided there were first founding chapters. That's a pretty forgettable base to build a primarch release on. At least with Perty, lots of people actually care about the legion he's attached to.
Contrarily, Corax being a giant loyalist daemon bird actually makes him the most interesting to bring back.
Even he's somehow a loyalist daemon now (which... ), what about that makes him interesting? How does he interact with imperial forces without immediately getting shot in the face?
Living Saints are basically daemon princes of the Emperor, they'll find a way.
ClockWorkChris (who leaked CSM codex among other stuff) says that the 50 page chat log is based on real info, but not as crazy as it sounds. He believes that the log has been put through Google Translate at some point causing some things to be unclear.
Korkin (leaked Tyranid & Daemon codex details) says he cannot confirm or deny 10e rules leaks. However he's heard that "there will be something very similar" to indexes at the start of 10th, and added "I just don't like the term 'indexes' because it has a lot of connotations that come with it that aren't necessarily true". That implies whatever we get won't work the same way as the start of 8th.
ClockWorkChris (who leaked CSM codex among other stuff) says that the 50 page chat log is based on real info, but not as crazy as it sounds. He believes that the log has been put through Google Translate at some point causing some things to be unclear.
Korkin (leaked Tyranid & Daemon codex details) says he cannot confirm or deny 10e rules leaks. However he's heard that "there will be something very similar" to indexes at the start of 10th, and added "I just don't like the term 'indexes' because it has a lot of connotations that come with it that aren't necessarily true". That implies whatever we get won't work the same way as the start of 8th.
This concerns me.
Should be ok, so you get indexes for every force to start the new edition, then a faq that invalidates some bits of that and then dexes that invalidate index and index faq and finally a faq for the dex that invalidates dex...
ClockWorkChris (who leaked CSM codex among other stuff) says that the 50 page chat log is based on real info, but not as crazy as it sounds. He believes that the log has been put through Google Translate at some point causing some things to be unclear.
Korkin (leaked Tyranid & Daemon codex details) says he cannot confirm or deny 10e rules leaks. However he's heard that "there will be something very similar" to indexes at the start of 10th, and added "I just don't like the term 'indexes' because it has a lot of connotations that come with it that aren't necessarily true". That implies whatever we get won't work the same way as the start of 8th.
This concerns me.
Yup. Clockworkchris was (very unfortunately) on the money with their leaks on the CSM codex. So that mess could be real.
I think the crazy document could work if it was like... "Advantage" refers to a bonus and "Disadvantage" refers to a penalty. Think like "advantage to wound" meaning +1 to wound and Disadvantage to hit means -1 to hit. That sort of thing would be fine and just codify what the +/- stuff indicated.
Wayniac wrote: I think the crazy document could work if it was like... "Advantage" refers to a bonus and "Disadvantage" refers to a penalty. Think like "advantage to wound" meaning +1 to wound and Disadvantage to hit means -1 to hit. That sort of thing would be fine and just codify what the +/- stuff indicated.
The document explains advantage/disadvantage and says it's a new mechanic:
Almost everything works on D6 rolls without rerolls and modifiers. but rolls can crit
and fail critically.
[scaramouche] so no more fate die? isnt i t a bit bland
though crit failure is a bad explanation. ‘half hit’ would be better. it is called glancing
Yes and no. there are rules for rerolls and +-1 modifiers, but they seem to be used
sparingly. I have only seen the Warhost rules and the Space Marines + Blood Angels
and Tyranids rules.
There is a completely new mechanic to modify dice, that is used now everywhere. a
player can have advantage on a roll, making a roll of 6 critical. if you have another
advantage, 5 and 6 are critical. if you have disadvantage on the roll, a 6 is a glancing
score
Source: the document
By the way, for those not interested in going to dubious sites to look for the pdf, i put all that stuff in a pastebin:
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm late to the party but I'm starting to buy into the Lion thing, the last few cards were pretty blatant.
The "last few cards"? Other than last weeks, I don't see how any of the others even hint at it being a possibility. Especially when the one before last week are for The 4th book which is Farsight.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm late to the party but I'm starting to buy into the Lion thing, the last few cards were pretty blatant.
The "last few cards"? Other than last weeks, I don't see how any of the others even hint at it being a possibility. Especially when the one before last week are for The 4th book which is Farsight.
The Fool with the broken sword was obviously Cypher, was it not?
We know Cypher was trying his hardest to get into the Golden Throne room.
We're pretty sure that Cypher has the Lion Sword.
We do not know Cyphers intensions.
Speculation: Might Cypher have been trying to, perhaps tasked with, taking the Lion Sword to the Emperor as proof that The Lion has been found and is alive and needs the Emperor's help?
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm late to the party but I'm starting to buy into the Lion thing, the last few cards were pretty blatant.
The "last few cards"? Other than last weeks, I don't see how any of the others even hint at it being a possibility. Especially when the one before last week are for The 4th book which is Farsight.
The Fool with the broken sword was obviously Cypher, was it not?
That was a card for book 4 which is a Farsight/Xenos dedicated book, and it clearly had an Ethereal Honour Blade.
I am doubting the 50 page rumour mainly because of the extent of the changes.
Its certainly possible but I can't see what the commercial incentive is for GW for undertake such a dramatic shift. The risk of chucking a lucrative baby out with the bathwater is obvious.
Well, everyone starting from scratch, everything being new for everyone and "need to wait for more to tell if bad or not" are big points as just minor changes with people already being in a bad mood about the game won't help either
Much easier to make a new game were no one can tell of it is broken until they are years in rather than trying to fix the old one
kodos wrote: Well, everyone starting from scratch, everything being new for everyone and "need to wait for more to tell if bad or not" are big points as just minor changes with people already being in a bad mood about the game won't help either
Much easier to make a new game were no one can tell of it is broken until they are years in rather than trying to fix the old one
Gen.Steiner wrote: It feels more like the sort of change between WFB 8th and Age of Sigmar 1st, but without blowing up the universe?
I think 8th was used as a way to gently indicate that the setting is going to have some changes, think of 8th and 9th as the stage being set up. Gradual changes are more likely to happen to 40k, as it is their main cash cow, and a sudden change could jeopardise their income.
3rd to 7th edition were pretty much the same setting wise, so 8th was used as a way to herald that the setting is less stagnant, also with all the old guard more or less gone from GW, the 40k we get will be crafted by people who were not instrumental in crafting it.... hence the changes.
'The Star' - Conjunctus Malascendum - 'As wars rage beneath the Gaze of a newborn star'
That's the Eye of Horus.
Conjunctus Malascendum roughly translates to Connected bad ascension.
Could be Vash becoming a god, or, at least, the start of the ceremony. Presumably someone interrupts.
The prophecy of the Key has a line about dying Stars combing together into a bright light, which the key then unlocks. So I'd assume based on that it is something to do with Vashtors plan and all the stuff he's gathering.
'The Star' - Conjunctus Malascendum - 'As wars rage beneath the Gaze of a newborn star'
That's the Eye of Horus.
Conjunctus Malascendum roughly translates to Connected bad ascension.
Could be Vash becoming a god, or, at least, the start of the ceremony. Presumably someone interrupts.
The prophecy of the Key has a line about dying Stars combing together into a bright light, which the key then unlocks. So I'd assume based on that it is something to do with Vashtors plan and all the stuff he's gathering.
In my dreams the sky is burning. The stars blaze bright enough to drown out the darkness around. My heart leaps to see their lights, and I weep to feel such hope.
Then the stars start to die.
Faltering.
Guttering.
One by one they burn away and crumbe to ash that falls thick as snow. It lands upon my upturned face. It mingles with my tears. My hope has turned to horror, and as I drag my fingers down my cheeks, they trail smears of darkness that scald my skin.
I sink to my knees amidst the ashes. I know that this is the end.
Of me.
Of everything.
Yet in that moment I am seized by sudden knoweldge. Revelation. I can stop this! I tear my gaze from the dying heavens and I dig, terrified that I am already too late. Something lies under the ashes. Something has been hidden deep, something with the power to stop the stars from burning out.
My clawing fingers uncover a pattern in the ashes. I see the suggestion of furnaces and screaming mouths, of chains, of hammers. At their heart stands a figure with eyes of burning amber. It turns.
Terror grips me and I dig.
There's another pattern sitting below the first. A fortress, vast and mighty, but gouged by the beasts raging around its walls. Again the cinders dance before my eyes, racing across the ashen bastion like cracks. Just before the image shatters those glowing lines of embers form the shape of a crimson giant.
Above the stars die, and die, and die.
I dig.
I see an ashen forest grow, and wither, and grow again.
I see an ancient knight kneel upon his field of victory and weep amber tears.
I see a circle, within a circle, within an circle, inward and inward until at their heart... nothing.
The light grows faint and still I dig. I cannot be too late.
And then at last I have it. The key is an ugly thing of brass and bone and rock. Its rusted surface is hot, burns my bleeding fingers. I cannot care. I must end this.
But a key must have a lock.
Even as the dream begins to fade I feel my gaze dragged back to the hollow skies above. I don't want to look, but I must.
So few stars remain, and as they swirl together they become a single searing point so bright it hurts my eyes. I know that I have found the keyhole. Yet even as my shaking hand raises the key on high I am gripped by a different fear.
What has been imprisoned?
What will I unleash?
My doubts redouble and I feel suddenly as though I am being used. But now the dream has me and I cannot resist.
The key slides into a lock that blazes with the light of dying stars.
It turns, and flames engulf me.
I wake screaming, nails torn rom swollen fingers, bloody tears streaking my face. Sometimes, if I am lucky, it is days before I dream again.
Segersgia wrote: I think whatever the star is, is not something we know of yet. It sounds like the consequence from the events of an earlier book.
Perhaps it's the key to the Gates of Varl, and using it is an exceptionally bad idea? Would match the whole 'Stars being extinguished' theme of that prophecy.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Maybe it's bad Latin for "Eye of Terror". All of the sudden it's going to expand again and destroy everything it touches.
There was an old rumour that this series would end with the Imperium Nihilus further split off or isolated from the greater Imperium, so something like this fits. It also sets up Baal to be attacked by Tyranids without further reinforcements this time.
For those interested in the leaked document, i took the trouble to boil the ~1500 lines of text down to a more readable 150, removing a lot of convoluted examples, off-topic waffling and stuff that is likely to change anyway or of little relevance like the naming conventions for matched play and such. I also rearranged some things to make for more coherent reading.
- Terrain can be destroyed
- Almost all mechanics work on D6 rolls
- There are rules for rerolls and +/- 1 modifiers
- New mechanic called Advantage/Disadvantage
- Advantage means rolls of 6 are 'critical'
- Advantage stacks, so double Advantage means 5 and 6 are 'critical'
- Advantage/Disadvantage cancel each other out
- 'Criticals' count as additional successes, can trigger additional things
ATTACK SEQUENCE
- Disadvantage means that 6 is a 'Glancing' hit
- 'Glancing' means not outright failure, you can combine Glances to still get some hits
- Attack sequence is hit - damage - saves - invulnerable saves
- Hit scores are fixed, modified by Advantage/Disadvantage
- To calculate Advantage/Disadvantage compare Hit traits with enemy Evade traits
- Pairings are Rapid Fire/Dodge, Tracker/Speed, True Grit/Jinx, Seeker/Obscured, Pulse/Flicker
- Unnegated Evade traits give Disadvantage
- Two Glances to Hit are one success
- Determine damage before saves
- Armour saves are fixed, modified by Advantage/Disadvantage
- Compare Armour traits with Penetrate traits to calculate Advantage/Disadvantage
- Pairings are Armored/Penetrating, Shielded/Fusion, Aegis/Infused, Artificer/Killshot
- Examples given: Power weapons are penetrating, Melta is Fusion, Infused is Force weapons, Snipers are Killshot
- There are two 'Wildcard' traits: Veteran Instincts for Hit, Hardened for Save
- Two Glances to Save are one Save
- Damage spills over but this is often limited by weapon rules
- Invulnerable saves after, and in addition to armour saves
- Mortal Wounds still exist and circumvent all this
- Traits can have tiers, and need a appropriate-tiered counter-trait to cancel them
- Weapon profiles are not uniform, a bolter on a Captain has different rules than a bolter on a Guardsman
- There are a number of rules that give Advantage/Disadvantage directly
- Blast weapons work by doing additional damage on critical successes
UNIT PROFILES
- Profiles are completely redesigned
- General structure of the Profile now follows the Phases
- Profile layout:
- Stats and Picture
- Then boxes for every phase
- Boxes have Special Rules, Weapons, Enhancement slots and Keywords that are relevant in that phase
- Stats: Movement, Evade Traits, Save value + traits, Invulnerable Save value +traits, Wounds, Initiative, Morale
- Weapon profile: Range, Attacks, Hit value + traits, Penetration traitss, Damage, special rules
- Every unit has a 'Morale' special rule
- Morale threshold is when the rule is triggered
- Some recurring rules: Indomitable: no additional result, Shaken: can't get Advantage, Attrition, Broken: unit destroyed
- ATSKNF is a special Morale rule and better than Shaken
ARMY SELECTION
- You select 'Battle Profiles' from your roster datasheet
- 'Battle Profile' contains all the information you need to play
- Stratagems are mainly unit upgrades now
- You pay for the availability of Stratagems with Requisition points before the game
- In-game you pay for using them with Command points
- Power levels are completely gone
- Everything uses points now, but most squad loadouts are free
- Powerful loadout options are free, but cost Requisition points instead, e.g. Lascannon, Plasma
- Many Stratagems cost 0 CP to use
- You usually get 2 CP a turn, +1 to go second, +1 if you fulfill a Secondary Mission
- Every army has a Signature Stratagem that is free
- Stratagems take up Enhancement Slots on the Battle Profile
- Relics, Warlord traits and Secondary Missions also take up Enhancement Slots
- Troops have many slots, elite units and tanks only have a few
- Scoring secondary missions gives you Victory points and an additional Command point
- You can only score each Secondary mission once, and only one per turn
- Relics and Warlord traits cost real points too
- All that stuff is supported by a new App
- All armies get new rules in a book called 'Warhosts'
- Subfactions basically gone / merged with factions
- You now build an army by selecting a Detachment
- Detachment rules will tell you which keywords you can include
- Stuff like Relics, Psychic powers etc. now also has keywords
- In practice this means that with the right Detachment, army building is much more flexible
- Instead of playing 'Eldar' you now play a Detachment that mainly contains Eldar, but could have Harlequins, Drukhari etc. as well
- Faction/Subfaction rules are now bound to the Detachment
- Supplements add a lot of keyworded things to represent a specific Chapter etc.
- Due to the keyword structure, stuff for e.g. Orks can also be in the e.g. Space Marine codex
GRAND TOURNAMENT
- GT allows only one specific faction
- GT is its own thing in organization and troop selection
- GT only allows pre-made Battle Profiles you select from
- The only thing you can change is weapons loadout and some stratagems etc.
- These function like some sort of 'sideboard'
- These GT profiles will rotate each season
- GT Terrain is drawn from a list of Terrain in the GT packs
- GT terrain is symmetrical
- Each player is supposed to bring two GT Terrain sets
- GT Battle Profiles are not in the Codex, but in the GT pack for each season
TERRAIN, COVER AND MOVEMENT
- Terrain rules much clearer
- Three classes: light, hard, fortified
- Three types: area, landmark, obstacle
- You need to discuss what happens with destroyed Terrain
- Line of Sight stays mostly the same
- If you can see any model in a unit, unit is not obscured
- If you can't, unit is hidden
- Cover is much better, offers bonuses both to Evade and Save
- Units within 6'' ignore Cover
- No Cover in Melee
- You only get Cover if fully in Area Terrain, or within 3'' of Terrain and obscured
- All distances are measured horizontally, no diagonal measurement
- Units may move upwards up to their movement allowance in addition to their horizontal movement
- Downwards movement is not limited at all
- Non-Infantry Models need to physically fit everywhere they move unless they have the 'Fleet' special rule
- Heavy Infantry like Terminators also can't ignore Obstacles
- This means that e.g. dragons teeth actually work as intended to stop tanks
- Every player can bring one obstacle and one large terrain piece in addition to mission-specific terrain
- These can be free or paid with points
- Size is a keyword in every Profile
- Not very granular: Light - Solid - Heavy - Superheavy - Titanic
- Terrain can be destroyed by units of different sizes moving through its
- Light can be destroyed by infantry size 'solid' and up
- Hard can be destroyed by terminators, tanks
- Fortified can be destroyed by superheavies
- Area terrain is one level harder to destroy, fortified area terrain is indestructable
- You can move through Light and Solid-size models of your own army
- Tanks can also move through Light enemies
- Blast weapons and weapons with 'Demolish' can also destroy terrain by scoring a number of wounds in a single turn
- There are plastic tokens to mark destroyed terrain etc.
TURN STRUCTURE
- Turn structure is different now
- Battle rounds and turns stay as they are
- Within a turn, you activate units one at a time and go through all phases, in an order you determine
- You can activate several units at once, e.g. characters and units
- Units can skip phases for bonuses or to use them later in e.g. overwatch
- Fight phase cannot be skipped if enemy is in CC range
- Interventions can be used to interrupt an enemy activation
- Overwatch is an intervention that allows you to shoot during an enemy activation
- Units that are within 6'' of an unit that has fought can intervene
- Initiative is used for this
- Melee weapons have lots of attacks, but you usually just fight on your turn
- Melee weapons have a 'reach' stat that determines how many models can fight
- Reach 0: direct contact, Reach 1: contact with a friendly model in direct contact, and so on
- Weapon types have gone, but some, e.g. Pistol, remain as special rules
- Charging is done in the movement phase
- Due to the players chosing phase order each activation, you can shoot before charging, or even after fighting
INITIATIVE, ACTIVATION AND INTERVENTION
- Everytime a unit has fought, nearby enemies may intervene
- Both sides roll 6D6 against their Initiative - if the intervening player has more successes, he can intervene
- Interventor immediately gets a movement phase and can pile in, and a fight phase after that
- Units with high Initiative can use this to fight back, then immediately fight again on their turn
- No strike first/strike last effects anymore
- No consolidation anymore, you use your normal movement
- There are only five movement types
- Charge: in movement phase, normal move + 2D6'', must end in CC range of enemy
- Pile-in: if within 6'' of an enemy. 6'' move that needs to end in CC range of enemy
- Retreat: normal move that needs to end outside 6'' of the enemy, forgoes shooting and psychic phase
- Run and normal Move: stay the same
PSYCHIC POWERS
- Psychic powers are selected by appropriate keywords, no unified 'lore' list anymore
- Psychic phase can be whenever you like, one per activation
- Units can use different numbers of powers
- Powers have no warp charge, but a casting score. Use Advantage/Disadvantage
- You still roll 2D6 with perils on snake eyes - if you have at least one succes, the power goes through
- Deny now works as a collective action of all your psykers, use the best psy stat
- You can deny any amount of powers, but if you go over the limit you get Disadvantages
- Denying needs more successes than using powers, so double-crit when casting makes powers undeniable
AIRCRAFT
- Aircraft only exist in hover model
- If an enemy comes within 6'' of an aircraft, that aircraft is removed from play and replaced on any board edge by the controlling player
RANDOM TIDBITS
- Primaris 'Rupture Squads' with warp shunt modules are a new unit
- There is a plastic sprue with tokes for all sorts of effects
- Starter Box is Blood Angels vs Tyranids
- 'There are 0 accurate rules leaks out there - the AoO stuff is correct, other stuff is laughable'
- The Lion is coming and will be out before 10th edition
Any errors or omissions are of course entirely mine.
An additional observation that might be relevant: several other rumours have mentioned the starter box being called 'Vigil of Blood' - that exact wording shows up exactly once in the original leaked document, but from the context it seems clear to me that this is not in fact related to Warhammer at all, but some of-topic remark among the two parties in the original chat that has to do with a campaign of 'Vampire: the Masquerade' that one of them is involved in.
Still have a hard time believing any of this is real.
I even did it twice, because i was dumb enough to accidentally delete the first writeup in the one specific way that would not allow any recovery, while literally thinking 'you must now take care not to accideentally delete this'
They only reason this is likely to be fake is that it sounds like a thought thru and working game, rather than the usual mess we get from GW
While on the other hand it us mostly copy&paste from various other games, which would make it legit (and copy game mechanics without understanding why they are used in the first place is the main problem with GW rules)
A full reset and brand new game just with the old IP is what keeps 40k alive, another edition of 8th/9th would not work (as people have enough and want something else) hence it would be legit
The style of the original document is more like a fake, unless someone made an audio transcript of an interview that was recorded to be released before 10th (unlikely but possible)
lord_blackfang wrote: Someone really went to the effort of faking a new edition yet again, huh. With changes about as sweeping as Pancake.
I can't really put a finger on any of it, but after close-reading all that for summarizing* it just feels fake. I got the distinct feeling that much of it was made up on the go during the chat, but i can't say why. Anyway, more reputable rumourmongers have chimed in and said that 'something similar' to this was possible, but that can mean a lot of things really.
lord_blackfang wrote: Someone really went to the effort of faking a new edition yet again, huh. With changes about as sweeping as Pancake.
would really be the first time
Other fake edition in the past were house rules used by clubs or larger gaming groups that ame around and treated as leaks by people not knowing them
"We" (from another forum back than) did this on purpose once, simple to check how long it takes until our own house rules are reported back as rules leaks (14 days)
Davor wrote: Thank you Tsagualsa for the write up. I thank you twice. :p
One the one hand, i'm still a bit foggy in the head from being down with Corona for a couple of weeks, which probably made me do this brainfart, but on the other hand a nice little brain fog makes such mindnumbing tasks easily bearable Lord Nurgle taketh and lord Nurgle giveth
kodos wrote: They only reason this is likely to be fake is that it sounds like a thought thru and working game, rather than the usual mess we get from GW
I think the same as well. Its surpising elegant and definitely cuts down on sheer number of dice rolls. You don't have know much about your opponents army to get a shooting or fight phase done either. Just compare keywords and start determining "advantage/disadvantage" and then your dice pool.
I really like the turn phase sequencing and being able to run a unit through all phases with a unit activation. All movement is done during movement to include charges. You can then choose to fight first and then shoot. You can even move before shooting. Pistol weapons become more relevant.
No. They revealed two Battletomes for AoS, the next AoO book and the models for Snikrot and Farsight, and that's very probably all for today. They have not yet publicly acknowledged that 10th edition is even coming at this point, not even in unambiguous teasers.
Cutting down the dice rolls is fine if its just pairing back the volume thats rolled at once, but the whole advantage/disadvantage comparison sounds like an absolute hassle.
Requiring you to have a spreadsheet handy to constantly check the rock paper scissors of everything taking you out of the game every time you want to shoot or fight.
you would have situations like my army lacks Rapid fire which means i am permanently at a disadvantage against an army that leans heavily on whatever keyword beats that; sounds very, very feelsbad.
"- To calculate Advantage/Disadvantage compare Hit traits with enemy Evade traits - Pairings are Rapid Fire/Dodge, Tracker/Speed, True Grit/Jinx, Seeker/Obscured, Pulse/Flicker - Unnegated Evade traits give Disadvantage - Two Glances to Hit are one success - Determine damage before saves - Armour saves are fixed, modified by Advantage/Disadvantage - Compare Armour traits with Penetrate traits to calculate Advantage/Disadvantage - Pairings are Armored/Penetrating, Shielded/Fusion, Aegis/Infused, Artificer/Killshot"
Utterly false.
Before any of y'all come in here and say some gak like 'You get used to it! it's USRs!' absolutely not. You're adding MORE bookkeeping into the dice rolls than less, where every time you attack you have to compare these traits from your datasheet to your opponents and see what lines up and cancels out, and then figure out if you have one or more levels of advantage/disadvantage that you then have to keep track of as you roll to pair up dice to see how many of your 'glances' become hits? And THEN you have to do the same thing for saves???
kodos wrote: They only reason this is likely to be fake is that it sounds like a thought thru and working game, rather than the usual mess we get from GW
This sounds like convoluted nonsense, not a 'thought-thru and working game.' But to each their own I suppose.
kodos wrote: They only reason this is likely to be fake is that it sounds like a thought thru and working game, rather than the usual mess we get from GW
While on the other hand it us mostly copy&paste from various other games, which would make it legit (and copy game mechanics without understanding why they are used in the first place is the main problem with GW rules)
A full reset and brand new game just with the old IP is what keeps 40k alive, another edition of 8th/9th would not work (as people have enough and want something else) hence it would be legit
The style of the original document is more like a fake, unless someone made an audio transcript of an interview that was recorded to be released before 10th (unlikely but possible)
You say wouldnjt work yet track record shows you to be wrong.
Meanwhile tournament players being required to bring 2 sets of terrain is hard sell. And whether gw survives without tournament whales is dubious.
Another worry beyond the absolute ridiculousness of the alleged rules, the two different game modes for casual and tournaments, having to use your own terrain every time (?!), and being forced into using an app during the game (gross!), is the bit about games being *much shorter*.
Don't get me wrong, sometimes games drag on a bit and they could definitely be tidied up and streamlined. But currently 'a game' is usually (unless someone gets tabled turn 2) 'an evening's entertainment' and feels like a fairly meaty endeavour. To have games streamlined to the point only taking an hour or so feels a bit lightweight? Yeah you could play 2 games but I'm not sure it will be as satisfying.
Since Rumours are being slow and the OP is updated for now, today i'm gonna do a bit of analysis.
Namely, i'm presenting a selection of already known rumours and argueing that they all derive from the sameoriginal source, which is the large document that got brought to our attention by RoyRobHobGob.
If this is true, it could of course mean only two things: either the bulk of it is true, or a lot of the rumours we've been presented by now derive from the same fake and we'd need to reevaluate the lot of it.
As always, i'm first pretending the facts as they're currently known to us, and then my personal conclusion. This is all guesswork, so please do not feel attacked if i call things fake or made-up: in all cases, this strictly means the rumours itself and is not directed against the people that bring them to our attention! Rumour season is a game, and you can't blame people for having a go at it.
First, the rumours that i think are directly related:
02/07/2023
Spoiler:
A lot of stuff from the newest video, i pared this summary down by removing stuff we already heard before:
- Promotional art will show them [the starter box miniatures] as Dark Angels and Hive Fleet Leviathan
- Tyranid players will receive a new model called an Apex Swarmlord
- Narrative does not appear to be a timeskip but expanding on events elsewhere while the Indomitus Crusade battles the Necrons led by the Silent King. Arks of Omen: The Lion will be the first step in a longform narrative chain tying both galactic conflicts together.
-Core rules are streamlined
- Psychic Phase and Command Phase are combined
- Toughness is now only on datasheets with a [Heavy Armour] keyword ability. E.g Terminators, Rhinos, Dreadnoughts etc. Generic troops now only roll to hit when attacking and save when defending.
- Armour Pen. and Invulnerable saves are unchanged.
- Crusade is being simplified and behaves closer to Age of Sigmars Path to Glory
- Detachments, Battle forging, Stratagems and CP generation have all be simplified or reworked
- Game is intended to be faster, with smaller units and a much bigger emphasis on terrain
- Along with the start box there will be a new series of terrain intended to scale from small to medium to large scale games
- The core rules will be free online with two variants. "Narrative" and "Competitive" - There is a codex coming for Dark Admech and one new Xenos race
- A second wave of Votann along with a updated codex is expected to launch in September - The way Space Marines will receive a codex and rules for Chapters is changing completely and will be explained in a special White Dwarf releasing in May 2023 and closer to release on the Warhammer Community website - The new edition will also see GW retiring the current range of Texture Paints and they will be replaced with new products using new materials intended to be another Contrast Paint style product to quickly allow beginners in a partnership with 'Screen Products Limited'
xttz brings us a bunch of rumours from a pastebin with unknown originator:
- There's a convoluted system to roll out digital unit profiles for premade units via the App, the online store and Warhammer+, as well as by unlocks from QR codes in other products
- I can't be arsed to make any sense of this, please read the original Pastebin for yourself
- 10th edition will have a box called 'Vigil of Blood' for seasoned players and a 'series of mini starter boxes' that includes paints and tools for newcomers
- There will be 'Grand Tournament Packs' released every year
- The first GT pack is said to include 'mountains of terrain' and to be GW's most expensive box ever
- GT packs include digital materials, an 'extremely tight ruleset', scoresheets, clocks and digital support for scoring etc.
- Codexes for Space Marines, Tyranids, Orks and Demons are in playtesting
- Supplements for Blood Angels, Space Wolves and White Scars are in playtesting
- Starter box contents as per this rumour:
1 winged jump primaris captain
1 apothecari toxinmaster
5 sword jump primaris
5 veteran intercessors
5 primaris scouts with grenade launchers
1 heavy offroad atv
1 shrike prime
3 shrikes
8 termagants with fleshborer
8 termagants with harpoon
6 melee gargoyles
dreadnought sized trygon
Mosque style low tech buildings, reinforced with scifi tech and walls, improvised and rugged look, some destroyed old columns and centerpiece angel statue, plastic token set
- Complete reset of the rules, though stil D6-based
- Index exists and is called 'Warhosts'
- Faster rolling, less re-rolls, unit activations less bound by turn structure
- Turn structure and surrounding elements ported from AoS, no double turn
- You only fight on your turn
- Stat ranges limited to D6 rolls
- Initiative is back, To-Wound-roll is gone
- Morale is completely changed
- Stratagems have be bound to units
- Armour has numerical value and specific attributes against attacks
In later posts he added
- High enough Initiative allows to interrupt enemies fighting
- Starter box contains no Terminators
- Starter box is called 'Vigil of Blood' and will be previewed much earlier than 10th edition rules, may be as early as end of march.
- Tournament rules are a '4th way to play', not a separate game alltogether
- Tournament rules a more standardized form of current GT rules
- Matched play as default way of play
- More support for smaller games
- Narrative play still there
- Open play basically gone, with assets moved to narrative play
- Codex content will have FAQs on day one, everything else is removed: Legends, White Dwarf supplements etc. will no longer be supported
- Generic Warlord traits, stratagems and relics that all factions have access to
- Indexes on launch, all stratagems, traits and relics will be greatly condensed or removed
- Subfactions gone, replaced with traits
- Turret rule is generic for all armies
- Objective secure is gone, securing objectives now works by counting wounds in the vicinity, with bonus for troops
- Psychic powers greatly reduced
- Playtest material only included Marines, Tyranids and Indexes.
- AoO is not about the Lion, but poster won't say what it is about. - Poster claim access to a box called Strangleweb with a new Warhammer 40k Logo and full of Blood Angels content
- Box has a booklet, two paints and Tyranids as well as Blood Angels
- Tyranid Pheragaunts: Gargoyle-type, two wings, four claws, look 'amphibious' as well as insectoid
- Blood Angel Intervenators: Jump troops with Eviscerators
- Booklet mentions: Captain Lucael, Indomitus Elite Velani, Tyranid Shrikes, Termagants w/ Spike Rifles, Termagants w/ Fleshborers, Scout Squad Sempre - Termagants look similar to Pheragaunts, longer head plates, tubes connecting throat to weapons
- Unit stat block looks a lot like the AoS unit profile: two dials with values for Move, Initiative and Morale - Evade, Save and Wounds
- Some stats are just symbols, units have keywords like 'Sturdy' or 'Light'
- Original post contains more descriptions, weapon profiles etc., please read it up at your convenience: https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/377648-blood-angels-box-set/
In a further post the poster said that he did not take any pictures and is not in physical possession of the book and the box, and he wants to avoid GW's ire.
In another post, Valrak chimed in and called all of this fake. The original poster in turn said that the 5th book in the Arks of Omen series will be centered on the Sanguinor.
02/26/2023 'The one with the wayward pdf'
Spoiler:
RoyRobHobGob appears once again, this time giving us a .pdf of many pages with what appears to be a chatlog with somebody with insight into 10th - and possibly evidence of not quite legal activity.
I marked in Green stuff that could be directly taken from the big document or summarized from it.
I marked in Red the specific mention of a box called 'Vigil of Blood' because that on is the most damning in my view: it appeared exactly once in the large document, and from the context it's clear to me that it's not Warhammer-related, but concerns the Vampire: the Masquerade group of one of the people that are having the original chat, so everything that took up exactly this phrase is probably taken from the .pdf and has added their own made-up stuff to it.
I find psychic and command phase combined to be very likely. AoS already has magic and command phase combined and I don't see 40k would be any different.
So, how about that blurb in the WHC article? “ The Dark Angels aren’t taking this invasion lightly, and rally their forces as a mysterious third party enters the slaughter.”
Probably the Lion waking up to save the Rock.
Or it turns out that the Watchers in the Dark are actually an obscure clone skein of the Votann, amd the bottom level of the Rock has actually been building Land Trains for the past 10,000 years.
And they all suddenly pull the robes off and BAM! Motherdogs! No one expects the dwarfish inquisition!
Unless they somehow snuck an entire new faction beyond the radar of literally every rumour monger and outlet to the point that we don't even have hints only a couple of months from release, it's probably not half as mysterious as the hype-text is trying to make you believe. At the end it will be something like the Lion hanging around with the Legion of the Damned, some random Eldar on an inscrutable mention, a handful of Custodes that happend to bum around the webway or an intervention by the Watchers in the Dark.
bullyboy wrote: So, how about that blurb in the WHC article? “ The Dark Angels aren’t taking this invasion lightly, and rally their forces as a mysterious third party enters the slaughter.”
Probably the Lion waking up to save the Rock.
The Lion wouldn't be a "third party" considering he's part of the Dark Angels.
The Tarot card for the ending of the book(which was Daemon inversed) implies that Chaos Daemons defeat the Chaos Forces. I'm expecting Be'lakor as he was mentioned to have a rivalry with Vashtor.
One imagines a third party would either be Cypher (given her has a new book, and he might be bringing the Lion back his sword?), or Farsight given the reference on his model.
Manfred von Drakken wrote: "Mysterious third party" sounds like someone or something unaffiliated with the Dark Angels at all, most likely some errant xenos force.
Maybe the AI that Vashtorr has dealt with is a Votann and that's how they crowbar the leagues into plot relevancy
These "Scaramouche" rumours make it sound as if GW is suddenly thinking that many of the rules mechanics of KT21 would make sense in 40K? Dicepools, opposing rolls with criticals and so on?
Unless Mr Hamer turns out to be one of the leading rules writers for 10th ed, I'm calling BS.
What I can see is the army selections getting looser so as to make combined forces armies (such as Eldar/Drukhari/Harlies army or Inquisition etc) a more viable thing, as well as dropping toughness from basic infantry. Dropping PL in favour of more simplified points. Oh and indexes for all major factions at launch. Those sound more or less believable to me.
The Phazer wrote: One imagines a third party would either be Cypher (given her has a new book, and he might be bringing the Lion back his sword?), or Farsight given the reference on his model.
I'd be very surprised if it was Farsight, given he's the "star" of the next book.
It’s not the Lion because where is he going to secretly get an army fro
? Yeah there’s plot armour but realistically those first two can rally some of the Fallen, some kind of last redemption attack which leaves most of them dead but saves the day.
It’s not the Lion because where is he going to secretly get an army fro
? Yeah there’s plot armour but realistically those first two can rally some of the Fallen, some kind of last redemption attack which leaves most of them dead but saves the day.
Depending on how long the Lion has already been active in secret - as it has been rumoured - he could have rallied the Fallen himself. The Legion of the Damned also is a convenient source of 'Deus Ex Machina' wonder-armies to appear without prior warning. Other more esoteric possibilities include the Yellow King and whatever his deal is, the Star-Child or completely new characters/forces, one of the various alien/archaetech contraptions and beings in the DA's possession...
It should be noted that the possible identity of the King in Yellow has changed through a few names or possible identities and the name dropped happens at the very end of the 2nd novel in the series. Which is all we have right now as the 3rd has yet to be published.
So it could be true or it might not be. Also
Spoiler:
Because of revelations, also near the end of the 2nd book, it could be him and not him; In the same way Bequin is and is not Bequin
Can't really be him. Even if they don't use the current model, make a new one and call him "King in Yellow" (unlikely), thus avoiding spoilers for the book, people aren't going to know who / why he is, making it a bit pointless.
New Stuff from Valrak, this time in a post on B&C, concerning Tyranids in the 10th starter box:
Received more info on new Tyranid models, little muddy on whats in the box, take it for what you will.
⦁ New Hormagaunts
⦁ Vemon Crawler type Nid unit.
⦁ New Screamer Killer Karnifex.
⦁ New Lictors
⦁ Winged Warrior.
⦁ New Biovores
⦁ Plastic Spore Mines and Chunky
⦁ Norm Emissary (Beefed up Zoan Throat)
Tsagualsa wrote: New Stuff from Valrak, this time in a post on B&C, concerning Tyranids in the 10th starter box:
Received more info on new Tyranid models, little muddy on whats in the box, take it for what you will.
⦁ New Hormagaunts
⦁ Vemon Crawler type Nid unit.
⦁ New Screamer Killer Karnifex.
⦁ New Lictors
⦁ Winged Warrior.
⦁ New Biovores
⦁ Plastic Spore Mines and Chunky
⦁ Norm Emissary (Beefed up Zoan Throat)
Tsagualsa wrote: New Stuff from Valrak, this time in a post on B&C, concerning Tyranids in the 10th starter box:
Received more info on new Tyranid models, little muddy on whats in the box, take it for what you will.
⦁ New Hormagaunts
⦁ Vemon Crawler type Nid unit.
⦁ New Screamer Killer Karnifex.
⦁ New Lictors
⦁ Winged Warrior.
⦁ New Biovores
⦁ Plastic Spore Mines and Chunky
⦁ Norm Emissary (Beefed up Zoan Throat)
Christ he could at least look up the unit names for spelling.
I corrected that stuff for the OP and added things he only mentioned in the Video. I think he literally just posted what the Youtube auto-transcripting thingy made out of his accent
Valrak got more info on Tyranids in the 10th starter box:
- 'Two to three new types of Gaunts' he does not know the name of
- New Hormagaunts
- Vemon Crawler type unit in the vein of a 'Brainbug'
- New Screamer Killer Carnifex.
- New Lictors
- Winged Warrior.
- New Biovores
- Plastic Spore Mines, have a 'chunkier' version
- Norn Emissary beefed up Zoanthrope
- After the box, Tyranids get 'a full range refresh'
- New Genestealers later on, possibly in another boxed set, possibly Space Hulk or Space Hulk themed Kill Team box w/ new Terminators
Tsagualsa wrote: New Stuff from Valrak, this time in a post on B&C, concerning Tyranids in the 10th starter box:
Received more info on new Tyranid models, little muddy on whats in the box, take it for what you will.
⦁ New Hormagaunts
⦁ Vemon Crawler type Nid unit.
⦁ New Screamer Killer Karnifex.
⦁ New Lictors
⦁ Winged Warrior.
⦁ New Biovores
⦁ Plastic Spore Mines and Chunky
⦁ Norm Emissary (Beefed up Zoan Throat)
Christ he could at least look up the unit names for spelling.
I corrected that stuff for the OP and added things he only mentioned in the Video. I think he literally just posted what the Youtube auto-transcripting thingy made out of his accent
Valrak got more info on Tyranids in the 10th starter box:
- 'Two to three new types of Gaunts' he does not know the name of
- New Hormagaunts
- Vemon Crawler type unit in the vein of a 'Brainbug'
- New Screamer Killer Carnifex.
- New Lictors
- Winged Warrior.
- New Biovores
- Plastic Spore Mines, have a 'chunkier' version
- Norn Emissary beefed up Zoanthrope
- After the box, Tyranids get 'a full range refresh'
- New Genestealers later on, possibly in another boxed set, possibly Space Hulk or Space Hulk themed Kill Team box w/ new Terminators
Christ he could at least look up the unit names for spelling.
The perfect caricature of his innacurate "content".
On a side note on the rumours...
Apart from the big boys he pretty much said the vast majority of Nid species is going to be done : New gaunts, Fex, Lictors, warriors, Biovores/mines, Zoe and Stealers...
So yeah if from that list only one is updated he can do another tubevid saying - I WAS right!
Tsagualsa wrote: New Stuff from Valrak, this time in a post on B&C, concerning Tyranids in the 10th starter box:
Received more info on new Tyranid models, little muddy on whats in the box, take it for what you will.
⦁ New Hormagaunts
⦁ Vemon Crawler type Nid unit.
⦁ New Screamer Killer Karnifex.
⦁ New Lictors
⦁ Winged Warrior.
⦁ New Biovores
⦁ Plastic Spore Mines and Chunky
⦁ Norm Emissary (Beefed up Zoan Throat)
Christ he could at least look up the unit names for spelling.
Norm sends an emissary because he's too shy to show his beefed up throat
Also the spore mines bit is a little WTF. We have spore mines - if we get plastic biovores and they come with 3-4 spore mines, do we need a standalone kit? No, not really, GW did a good job with spore mines.
Tsagualsa wrote: New Stuff from Valrak, this time in a post on B&C, concerning Tyranids in the 10th starter box:
Received more info on new Tyranid models, little muddy on whats in the box, take it for what you will.
⦁ New Hormagaunts
⦁ Vemon Crawler type Nid unit.
⦁ New Screamer Killer Karnifex.
⦁ New Lictors
⦁ Winged Warrior.
⦁ New Biovores
⦁ Plastic Spore Mines and Chunky
⦁ Norm Emissary (Beefed up Zoan Throat)
Christ he could at least look up the unit names for spelling.
Norm sends an emissary because he's too shy to show his beefed up throat
Also the spore mines bit is a little WTF. We have spore mines - if we get plastic biovores and they come with 3-4 spore mines, do we need a standalone kit? No, not really, GW did a good job with spore mines.
Yeah, this rumor seems fake and dumb.
He doesn't know if they're separate kits or not as detailed at the top. Same way you might not have known if scarabs came with warriors or not etc.
Dudeface wrote: He doesn't know if they're separate kits or not as detailed at the top. Same way you might not have known if scarabs came with warriors or not etc.
The old scheme of packing a couple of Rippers into every other 'nid sprue or putting Scarabs on the Necron's was quite a good idea, they could do it with spore mines as well.
Dudeface wrote: He doesn't know if they're separate kits or not as detailed at the top. Same way you might not have known if scarabs came with warriors or not etc.
The old scheme of packing a couple of Rippers into every other 'nid sprue or putting Scarabs on the Necron's was quite a good idea, they could do it with spore mines as well.
Right, they have the spore mines built into the kits that use them already (plastic for harpy and sporocyst, resin for biovore). I assume when they redo the biovore, they include a few more spore mines in that kit. Unlike rippers and scarabs, independent spore mine units make a little less sense, so I think if you just kept them to accessories to those 3 kits, you'd be good.
Dudeface wrote: He doesn't know if they're separate kits or not as detailed at the top. Same way you might not have known if scarabs came with warriors or not etc.
The old scheme of packing a couple of Rippers into every other 'nid sprue or putting Scarabs on the Necron's was quite a good idea, they could do it with spore mines as well.
Right, they have the spore mines built into the kits that use them already (plastic for harpy and sporocyst, resin for biovore). I assume when they redo the biovore, they include a few more spore mines in that kit. Unlike rippers and scarabs, independent spore mine units make a little less sense, so I think if you just kept them to accessories to those 3 kits, you'd be good.
Independent spore mine units were a thing in about half the 'nid codexes of the past, but yeah, it makes the most sense to put them only on the sprues of things that use them.
The new chunkier mines could be a new plastic version of the Meiotic Mines that Forge World used to make. It'd fit GW's approach of bringing past ideas back and fit as the sort of thing that would make a fairly simple easy to make release. If I remember correctly they were a little smaller than the Mucoloid Mines and much bigger than Spore Mines so it fills a possible gap in the range.
EonChao wrote: The new chunkier mines could be a new plastic version of the Meiotic Mines that Forge World used to make. It'd fit GW's approach of bringing past ideas back and fit as the sort of thing that would make a fairly simple easy to make release. If I remember correctly they were a little smaller than the Mucoloid Mines and much bigger than Spore Mines so it fills a possible gap in the range.
I thought of the Meiotic spores as well. Iirc in their original incarnation they could fly around as anti-air deterrent with the option to sink down and work like larger versions of the normal mines. The deterrent thing could be useful nowadays, there are a lot more flyers than back in the day, and dedicated AA is something the Tyranids don't really have at the moment.
Meiotic spores also used to work as cluster bombs. When they blew up, it would spawn a bunch of smaller spore mines after the explosion. Not quite sure how well that mechanic would work in the current system, but it gave them a gimmick which was a bit more interesting than just 'bigger spore mine'.
That's literally a list of remaining failcast models, the kit that everyone has wanted redone for 20 years and a misspelled Epic unit from the early 90s. Sounds like something made up by someone with a passing familiarity with the army.
lord_blackfang wrote: That's literally a list of remaining failcast models, the kit that everyone has wanted redone for 20 years and a misspelled Epic unit from the early 90s. Sounds like something made up by someone with a passing familiarity with the army.
Hard to disagree with that statement really, the Screamer-Killer is a pretty safe bet considering GW's retro trip of the last couple of years, and everything else is either pretty obvious guesses due to e.g. Finecast or so vague that it barely counts as rumour.
Only thing I find interesting about the Screamer Killer is it calls it out by name, and it's already a build option in the Carnifex box. To me we'd either get the whole box redone, or not at all.
Dawnbringer wrote: Only thing I find interesting about the Screamer Killer is it calls it out by name, and it's already a build option in the Carnifex box. To me we'd either get the whole box redone, or not at all.
Devil's advocate moment...
The Screamer-Killer might be an "easy build", intended for the starter box, while an updated Carnifex comes later.
I could see GW doing that, they are soft rebuilding the idea of character models in Tyranids and the Screamer Killer is a great throwback to the classic days. Heck it might mean that Old One Eye gets his own model again too
That's a fair shout. And the kit is quite 'open' in terms of sprue space. That said, GW has a tendency to introduce new rather than replace functioning kits. Though we did recently get new Cadians, so who knows.
Overread wrote: I could see GW doing that, they are soft rebuilding the idea of character models in Tyranids and the Screamer Killer is a great throwback to the classic days. Heck it might mean that Old One Eye gets his own model again too
With that in mind I find it curious that no rumormonger tries to put forward the idea that the Red Terror will make a comeback (I haven't seen anything to that effect anyway), whether that's as its own kit or an upgrade sprue for Trygons in the same way Knights keep getting extra sprues (or AoS's giant giants).
You'd think that the ones pushing bogus rumors would be all over it considered the last model was the Parasite.
Overread wrote: I could see GW doing that, they are soft rebuilding the idea of character models in Tyranids and the Screamer Killer is a great throwback to the classic days. Heck it might mean that Old One Eye gets his own model again too
With that in mind I find it curious that no rumormonger tries to put forward the idea that the Red Terror will make a comeback (I haven't seen anything to that effect anyway), whether that's as its own kit or an upgrade sprue for Trygons in the same way Knights keep getting extra sprues (or AoS's giant giants).
You'd think that the ones pushing bogus rumors would be all over it considered the last model was the Parasite.
I think the Red Terror is to old to appear on the radar of people making stuff up much, just like the Death Leaper
MajorWesJanson wrote: I think a lot of people assume that Death Leaper or a generic a la neurothrope/Doom of Malantai will be included in a lictor kit.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I think a lot of people assume that Death Leaper or a generic a la neurothrope/Doom of Malantai will be included in a lictor kit.
A reasonable assumption, they'd be stupid not to.
Well, this isGW we're talking about - and, to paraphrase HBMC, they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity...
MajorWesJanson wrote: I think a lot of people assume that Death Leaper or a generic a la neurothrope/Doom of Malantai will be included in a lictor kit.
A reasonable assumption, they'd be stupid not to.
Well, this isGW we're talking about - and, to paraphrase HBMC, they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity...
Well, i'm not from the faction that gets angry at the sun for rising in the morning, and for setting in the evening, so i'll wait till they've actually missed it, but yeah, of course it's not a given that they don't fumble this
Are we pre-emptively getting mad about the likelihood that a small portion of the many new models which launch a new edition will be simpler pushfit kits for use in starter boxes & magazines?
Why would GW want to cater to new hobbyists like that? That's totally unacceptable!
H.B.M.C. wrote:A new Carnifex kit... yeah... that sounds like a great idea.
Have you tried to build one recently? The carapace does not line up at all..although yes id rather not get the Ork Boys treatment.
Overread wrote:I could see GW doing that, they are soft rebuilding the idea of character models in Tyranids and the Screamer Killer is a great throwback to the classic days. Heck it might mean that Old One Eye gets his own model again too
I think Nids will get some sort of clam pack/character release,GW have gotten very good at their individual model releases for factions these days. Necrons seemed to get a fair few.
I'm betting the walking brain bug is a psychic weapon battery. Hoping it is shrikes not just a winged warrior character [ideally both].
Mostly I'm interested to see how they develop the Nids style- hopefully a good bit of weirdness back in and the rumours of a brain bug and the Norn Emmissary sound promising.
xttz wrote: Are we pre-emptively getting mad about the likelihood that a small portion of the many new models which launch a new edition will be simpler pushfit kits for use in starter boxes & magazines?
That's not at all what's being said, and I'm pretty sure you know that.
Look at the current Carnifex. It can take two sets of double Devourers, even though the kit only comes with one. I'd bet all the money I have on me right now that the only reason we can still take quad-Devouers is because the Carnifex kit comes as a box of two, technically giving you two sets of Devourer arms.
Now, say they replace the Carnifex - with a simple EZ build kit or just a new kit - do you think it is likely that this kit would have more options, or fewer options than we currently have?
If Tyranids are getting new units, then that's cool. As always though, I don't much care about what we're getting. I care about what we're losing. I mean, look what happened with Chaos in their last Codex?
silverstu wrote: Have you tried to build one recently? The carapace does not line up at all..although yes id rather not get the Ork Boys treatment.
I literally have over a dozen of them. Never had a problem building one.
Tsagualsa wrote: Well, i'm not from the faction that gets angry at the sun for rising in the morning, and for setting in the evening...
silverstu wrote: Have you tried to build one recently? The carapace does not line up at all..although yes id rather not get the Ork Boys treatment.
I literally have over a dozen of them. Never had a problem building one.
Well you've had better luck than me then last few I've done have had issues lining up the spore chimneys and the back carapace. but its a great kit for the variety of builds and conversion opportunities.Plenty of space on the frames though so they could recut it to add new biomorphs. Could still enable quad armed fexes if they continue to box them as pairs - one pair each or two pairs of guns on one model.
The mention of the Screamer Killer specifically sounds to me like it's an easy to build kit in the release set to counter the marine dread.
I'm mostly invested in my Votann at the moment and the prospect of a second wave of them is more exciting but interested to see what these new Nids look like.
I'm mostly invested in my Votann at the moment and the prospect of a second wave of them is more exciting but interested to see what these new Nids look like.
I can relate to this so much. I have been a huge fan of Nids for decades but the stale designs drifted me away.
Votann on the other hand make me happy.
Geifer wrote: That doesn't look like a Blood Angel to me.
'Palador'...
A 'Paladin' is mostly known as a sacred knight or monk-knight nowadays, but originally 'Paladin' meant a Knight with special privileges that lived at or near the palace of the -roman- Emperor on Mons Palatinus. Later on, in medieval literature, a 'Paladin' meant specifically a Knight of the round table in Arthurian Legend, or one of the 12 servants in the most inner circle of King Charlemagne in the Chanson de Geste.
This pretty much confirms Lion to me. There would be so much wailing, gnashing, rending etc (and maybe some DA bonfires) if they don't do it. Wouldn't be wise to generate such ill feeling with no upside that I can see.
The card is very vague, outside of the winged helmet which does suggest it could be the Lion.
All the text hints at though is that someone defies Vashtor/Whatever the Key unlocks.
Based on the original prophecy text...I think it could be Abaddon as that seems like he's the person dreaming in that (as it's from the perspective of someone finding and using the Key).
It talks about them having doubts and feeling like they're being used, so maybe the plan goes through, he realizes he's been tricked, and tries to stop it.
I hope it's something like that...but at this point I think it might actually be The Lion, unfortunately.
Mentlegen324 wrote: The card is very vague, outside of the winged helmet which does suggest it could be the Lion.
All the text hints at though is that someone defies Vashtor/Whatever the Key unlocks.
Based on the original prophecy text...I think it could be Abaddon as that seems like he's the person dreaming in that (as it's from the perspective of someone finding and using the Key).
It talks about them having doubts and feeling like they're being used, so maybe the plan goes through, he realizes he's been tricked, and tries to stop it.
I hope it's something like that...but at this point I think it might actually be The Lion, unfortunately.
Maybe I'm just too tired to read you right, but are you saying book five could be Abaddon: The Sequel?
Mentlegen324 wrote: The card is very vague, outside of the winged helmet which does suggest it could be the Lion.
All the text hints at though is that someone defies Vashtor/Whatever the Key unlocks.
Based on the original prophecy text...I think it could be Abaddon as that seems like he's the person dreaming in that (as it's from the perspective of someone finding and using the Key).
It talks about them having doubts and feeling like they're being used, so maybe the plan goes through, he realizes he's been tricked, and tries to stop it.
I hope it's something like that...but at this point I think it might actually be The Lion, unfortunately.
Abaddon would be interesting, as it picks up stuff that has been said on the back of book one, and would mean more character development for him into some sort of anti-hero, which has been hinted at for some time.
The book blurb, from AoO: Abaddon, in question:
The Great Rift has torn the Emperor's realm in two. Ancient alien empires rise from the ashes of prehistory to claw at the dying stars. Predatory nightmares boil from the outer darkness, while everywhere the veil of reality wears thin and the flames of war rise ever higher. Day by day, battle upon battle, the galaxy careens ever closer to total annihiliation.
From amidst the growing anarchy and prophecies of a final ending rise those who would deny the last darkness and, in so doing, seize victory for themselves. Greatest amongst these is Abaddon the Despoiler. Forging an infernal pact with a dread new ally, he unleashes the mighty Arks of Omen and their rapacious Balefleets upon the Imperium Sanctus and the Imperium Nihilus alike.
Striking at world after world, the Arks ignite fresh conflagrations of war wherever their shadows fall. Humans, aliens, and even Abaddon's heretical rivals fight back against these nightmare war fleets wherever they can - but there is a darker and more insidious purpose to the attacks of the Arks of Omen, and time is not their ally...
Abaddon would normally not the first person you'd have in mind when it's about 'denying the darkness', final or otherwise.
Mentlegen324 wrote: The card is very vague, outside of the winged helmet which does suggest it could be the Lion.
All the text hints at though is that someone defies Vashtor/Whatever the Key unlocks.
Based on the original prophecy text...I think it could be Abaddon as that seems like he's the person dreaming in that (as it's from the perspective of someone finding and using the Key).
It talks about them having doubts and feeling like they're being used, so maybe the plan goes through, he realizes he's been tricked, and tries to stop it.
I hope it's something like that...but at this point I think it might actually be The Lion, unfortunately.
Maybe I'm just too tired to read you right, but are you saying book five could be Abaddon: The Sequel?
Sort of? I'm saying I think it would be more interesting if it was Abaddon or some similar unexpected character who ends up stopping The Key and Vashtor, rather than a quite bland (and to me, detrimental to 40k) "The Lion shows up and the Imperium gets a new superhero and he solves it".
That the Dreamer in the original prophecy starts to express doubts about what he's doing with gathering the Key, thinks he's being used, and questions what is really going on, implies that the Dreamer could potentially change his mind and hence be "The Knight".
Mentlegen324 wrote: The card is very vague, outside of the winged helmet which does suggest it could be the Lion.
All the text hints at though is that someone defies Vashtor/Whatever the Key unlocks.
Based on the original prophecy text...I think it could be Abaddon as that seems like he's the person dreaming in that (as it's from the perspective of someone finding and using the Key).
It talks about them having doubts and feeling like they're being used, so maybe the plan goes through, he realizes he's been tricked, and tries to stop it.
I hope it's something like that...but at this point I think it might actually be The Lion, unfortunately.
Maybe I'm just too tired to read you right, but are you saying book five could be Abaddon: The Sequel?
Sort of? I'm saying I think it would be more interesting if it was Abaddon or some similar unexpected character who ends up stopping The Key and Vashtor, rather than a quite bland (and to me, detrimental to 40k) "The Lion shows up and the Imperium gets a new superhero and he solves it".
That the Dreamer in the original prophecy starts to express doubts about what he's doing with gathering the Key, thinks he's being used, and questions what is really going on, implies that the Dreamer could potentially change his mind and hence be "The Knight".
Notably, Abaddon would also fit 'The Child' very well, since he is also Fatherless, and literally from the Sons of Horus... and if it really is some sort of redemption arc, as a traitor that betrayed the traitors he would also be utterly alone, as the Imperium would not exactly welcome him back with open arms.
Mentlegen324 wrote: The card is very vague, outside of the winged helmet which does suggest it could be the Lion.
All the text hints at though is that someone defies Vashtor/Whatever the Key unlocks.
Based on the original prophecy text...I think it could be Abaddon as that seems like he's the person dreaming in that (as it's from the perspective of someone finding and using the Key).
It talks about them having doubts and feeling like they're being used, so maybe the plan goes through, he realizes he's been tricked, and tries to stop it.
I hope it's something like that...but at this point I think it might actually be The Lion, unfortunately.
Abaddon would be interesting, as it picks up stuff that has been said on the back of book one, and would mean more character development for him into some sort of anti-hero, which has been hinted at for some time.
The book blurb, from AoO: Abaddon, in question:
The Great Rift has torn the Emperor's realm in two. Ancient alien empires rise from the ashes of prehistory to claw at the dying stars. Predatory nightmares boil from the outer darkness, while everywhere the veil of reality wears thin and the flames of war rise ever higher. Day by day, battle upon battle, the galaxy careens ever closer to total annihiliation.
From amidst the growing anarchy and prophecies of a final ending rise those who would deny the last darkness and, in so doing, seize victory for themselves. Greatest amongst these is Abaddon the Despoiler. Forging an infernal pact with a dread new ally, he unleashes the mighty Arks of Omen and their rapacious Balefleets upon the Imperium Sanctus and the Imperium Nihilus alike.
Striking at world after world, the Arks ignite fresh conflagrations of war wherever their shadows fall. Humans, aliens, and even Abaddon's heretical rivals fight back against these nightmare war fleets wherever they can - but there is a darker and more insidious purpose to the attacks of the Arks of Omen, and time is not their ally...
Abaddon would normally not the first person you'd have in mind when it's about 'denying the darkness', final or otherwise.
To me that further supports the idea of Abaddon potentially realizing he made a mistake after they Key is put together and used (which, the card last week suggests happens). I think that would be so much more interesting to have him as an anti-hero with this event than just it being solved because The Lion because Primarchs are just the best, have to be involved in everything significant, and they should be the ones to solve all the big stuff. Couldn't have a normal character stop Vashtor!
Since I haven't read the books (I'm not inclined to spend money on end of edition campaign books, especially after Psychic Awakening proved me right in this policy), is the narrative set up to actually get a conclusion? Psychic Awakening didn't have that and was only there to set up the next edition. Or something. I'm not actually sure we ever found out what Psychic Awakening was supposed to be. Gathering Storm I seem to remember kind of had something like that by at least letting Girlyman get to Terra to see dad.
So from a point of ignorance I could see book five focus on Lionel's return and getting us to the new status quo of 10th ed and still spend some time giving Abby a bit of a conclusion to position him for next edition's developments? Doesn't seem mutually exclusive.
About getting another superhero character, I mean, what else is going to happen? That's just modern 40k.
To me that further supports the idea of Abaddon potentially realizing he made a mistake after they Key is put together and used (which, the card last week suggests happens). I think that would be so much more interesting to have him as an anti-hero with this event than just it being solved because The Lion because Primarchs are just the best, have to be involved in everything significant, and they should be the ones to solve all the big stuff. Couldn't have a normal character stop Vashtor!
If Abaddon is 'the Knight', the knight standing among the cinders on the field of victory and 'crying amber tears' could be a lot more literal than we thought. Also, it could be alluding to the weirdness with Abaddons eyes.
Geifer wrote:Since I haven't read the books (I'm not inclined to spend money on end of edition campaign books, especially after Psychic Awakening proved me right in this policy), is the narrative set up to actually get a conclusion? Psychic Awakening didn't have that and was only there to set up the next edition. Or something. I'm not actually sure we ever found out what Psychic Awakening was supposed to be. Gathering Storm I seem to remember kind of had something like that by at least letting Girlyman get to Terra to see dad.
So from a point of ignorance I could see book five focus on Lionel's return and getting us to the new status quo of 10th ed and still spend some time giving Abby a bit of a conclusion to position him for next edition's developments? Doesn't seem mutually exclusive.
About getting another superhero character, I mean, what else is going to happen? That's just modern 40k.
Six books, not five - there is the sixth volume that's gonna be serialized in WD, and is said to be 'some sort acting as an epilogue' - i'm most interested in if the do a 'surprise' Tarot card for the sixth book in two week's time, because i could swallow book five being 'Abaddon: Regrets' much more easily if the Lion is snuck out in their super-secret additional hexagramma-tome.
To me that further supports the idea of Abaddon potentially realizing he made a mistake after they Key is put together and used (which, the card last week suggests happens). I think that would be so much more interesting to have him as an anti-hero with this event than just it being solved because The Lion because Primarchs are just the best, have to be involved in everything significant, and they should be the ones to solve all the big stuff. Couldn't have a normal character stop Vashtor!
If Abaddon is 'the Knight', the knight standing among the cinders on the field of victory and 'crying amber tears' could be a lot more literal than we thought. Also, it could be alluding to the weirdness with Abaddons eyes
I hadn't considered that and that's interesting, but that line is then followed by the "Circle inside a Circle" line, so I don't think that could be referring to Abaddon unless they're out of order. I had assumed the Knight referred to their would be Azrael because of the Rock being heavily damaged or something like that.
I really like the Lion, always have done. Him and a PTSD Russ after so long in the Eye of Terror with the whole of a crazed 13th company are the only loyal Primarchs I could ever really stomach returning tbh because it was feasible in some capacity (others are also I suppose), G-Man was died by all senses of the word, The Lion has just been in a slumber.
Anyway, as much as I do like the Lion, and would be happy for his return, I would also massively enjoy if GW has absolutely played us all like a fiddle and it wasn't him returning.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I really like the Lion, always have done. Him and a PTSD Russ after so long in the Eye of Terror with the whole of a crazed 13th company are the only loyal Primarchs I could ever really stomach returning tbh because it was feasible in some capacity (others are also I suppose), G-Man was died by all senses of the word, The Lion has just been in a slumber.
Anyway, as much as I do like the Lion, and would be happy for his return, I would also massively enjoy if GW has absolutely played us all like a fiddle and it wasn't him returning.
I always have that crazy idea of GW doing something with the possibility of 'Sharding' the Primarchs, and so having their cake and eating it too: Old Man Russ coming back as a figure alike to Odin, but his beastial Wulfen aspect still being at large somewhere in the Warp. A pale shadow of what the Khan used to be returning from the webway, after the Drukhari have taken their toll on him...
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I really like the Lion, always have done. Him and a PTSD Russ after so long in the Eye of Terror with the whole of a crazed 13th company are the only loyal Primarchs I could ever really stomach returning tbh because it was feasible in some capacity (others are also I suppose), G-Man was died by all senses of the word, The Lion has just been in a slumber.
Anyway, as much as I do like the Lion, and would be happy for his return, I would also massively enjoy if GW has absolutely played us all like a fiddle and it wasn't him returning.
I always have that crazy idea of GW doing something with the possibility of 'Sharding' the Primarchs, and so having their cake and eating it too: Old Man Russ coming back as a figure alike to Odin, but his beastial Wulfen aspect still being at large somewhere in the Warp. A pale shadow of what the Khan used to be returning from the webway, after the Drukhari have taken their toll on him...
That would be a lot more interesting than another godlike superhero to save the imperium and defeat all the bad guys because imperium is the star of the show
Mentlegen324 wrote: The card is very vague, outside of the winged helmet which does suggest it could be the Lion.
All the text hints at though is that someone defies Vashtor/Whatever the Key unlocks.
Based on the original prophecy text...I think it could be Abaddon as that seems like he's the person dreaming in that (as it's from the perspective of someone finding and using the Key).
It talks about them having doubts and feeling like they're being used, so maybe the plan goes through, he realizes he's been tricked, and tries to stop it.
I hope it's something like that...but at this point I think it might actually be The Lion, unfortunately.
Maybe I'm just too tired to read you right, but are you saying book five could be Abaddon: The Sequel?
Sort of? I'm saying I think it would be more interesting if it was Abaddon or some similar unexpected character who ends up stopping The Key and Vashtor, rather than a quite bland (and to me, detrimental to 40k) "The Lion shows up and the Imperium gets a new superhero and he solves it".
That the Dreamer in the original prophecy starts to express doubts about what he's doing with gathering the Key, thinks he's being used, and questions what is really going on, implies that the Dreamer could potentially change his mind and hence be "The Knight".
Notably, Abaddon would also fit 'The Child' very well, since he is also Fatherless, and literally from the Sons of Horus... and if it really is some sort of redemption arc, as a traitor that betrayed the traitors he would also be utterly alone, as the Imperium would not exactly welcome him back with open arms.
I mean, it's the Lion. . .
but. . .
I like your idea. New (old?) faction: renegade astartes.
Mentlegen324 wrote: The card is very vague, outside of the winged helmet which does suggest it could be the Lion.
All the text hints at though is that someone defies Vashtor/Whatever the Key unlocks.
Based on the original prophecy text...I think it could be Abaddon as that seems like he's the person dreaming in that (as it's from the perspective of someone finding and using the Key).
It talks about them having doubts and feeling like they're being used, so maybe the plan goes through, he realizes he's been tricked, and tries to stop it.
I hope it's something like that...but at this point I think it might actually be The Lion, unfortunately.
Maybe I'm just too tired to read you right, but are you saying book five could be Abaddon: The Sequel?
Sort of? I'm saying I think it would be more interesting if it was Abaddon or some similar unexpected character who ends up stopping The Key and Vashtor, rather than a quite bland (and to me, detrimental to 40k) "The Lion shows up and the Imperium gets a new superhero and he solves it".
That the Dreamer in the original prophecy starts to express doubts about what he's doing with gathering the Key, thinks he's being used, and questions what is really going on, implies that the Dreamer could potentially change his mind and hence be "The Knight".
Notably, Abaddon would also fit 'The Child' very well, since he is also Fatherless, and literally from the Sons of Horus... and if it really is some sort of redemption arc, as a traitor that betrayed the traitors he would also be utterly alone, as the Imperium would not exactly welcome him back with open arms.
I mean, it's the Lion. . .
but. . .
I like your idea. New (old?) faction: renegade astartes.
I'm mostly convinced it's the Lion too, but daydreaming is fun.
Tsagualsa wrote: Abaddon would normally not the first person you'd have in mind when it's about 'denying the darkness', final or otherwise.
Not the first perhaps, but the idea that Abaddon would oppose the end of all reality isn't particularly revolutionary. He was always self centred, driven by his own ambitions and desires, not those of Chaos gods. If he wants the Imperium toppled, it is only ever to build his own on the ruins.
Tsagualsa wrote: Abaddon would normally not the first person you'd have in mind when it's about 'denying the darkness', final or otherwise.
Not the first perhaps, but the idea that Abaddon would oppose the end of all reality isn't particularly revolutionary. He was always self centred, driven by his own ambitions and desires, not those of Chaos gods. If he wants the Imperium toppled, it is only ever to build his own on the ruins.
It's even what's hinted at in the prophecy of the Key, assuming that is from Abaddons perspective.
In my dreams the sky is burning. The stars blaze bright enough to drown out the darkness around. My heart leaps to see their lights, and I weep to feel such hope.
.....
Yet in that moment I am seized by sudden knowledge. Revelation. I can stop this! I tear my gaze from the dying heavens and I dig, terrified that I am already too late. Something lies under the ashes. Something has been hidden deep, something with the power to stop the stars from burning out.
The key is supposedly something meant to "stop the stars from burning out"
While Ezekyle can absolutely be presented as a more complex character, I think going from blowing up Cadia to "heart leaping to see the light of the stars" and "weeping to feel such hope" stinks of season X syndrome - we ran out of ideas, so lets make the villain secretly a big softie on the inside.
Honestly, if it was Abaddon's dream, he should be livid that someone's trying to usurp/destroy what should rightfully, in his own mind, be his.
His Master's Voice wrote: While Ezekyle can absolutely be presented as a more complex character, I think going from blowing up Cadia to "heart leaping to see the light of the stars" and "weeping to feel such hope" stinks of season X syndrome - we ran out of ideas, so lets make the villain secretly a big softie on the inside.
Well, in Saturnine he does note how beautiful of a day it is outside and lament on Perturabo's behalf that Perturabo is cooped up in his computer room doing computer stuff (commanding the entire Siege of Terra himself). Seems like a big softy to me.
While Ezekyle can absolutely be presented as a more complex character, I think going from blowing up Cadia to "heart leaping to see the light of the stars" and "weeping to feel such hope" stinks of season X syndrome - we ran out of ideas, so lets make the villain secretly a big softie on the inside.
Honestly, if it was Abaddon's dream, he should be livid that someone's trying to usurp/destroy what should rightfully, in his own mind, be his.
I think it's the Lion, if only because we have the Rumours going on since before AoO was announced, and corporate 'rumours' and 'teasing' are usually much, much less complex and nuanced than fan theories - even though GW has some 'deep' concepts hidden in its lore somewhere, the actual lore is mostly comic book level writing, which is itself a huge range from the literary noticeable to pure junk. And the corporate marketing based on this lore is still some rungs lower on the ladder.
The prophecy can be made to fit a lot of different thing, as is the nature of prophecies, and with enough convoluted and motivated reasoning you can make the cards fit a lot of people and things, from the Lion to Valdor, to Russ, to Abaddon or to a released unbroken C'tan or even a completely new faction, the Star Child or whatever.
In the end it's gonna be the Big Hunk'o'Marine™ you can sell a flashy model worth 100$ for.
While Ezekyle can absolutely be presented as a more complex character, I think going from blowing up Cadia to "heart leaping to see the light of the stars" and "weeping to feel such hope" stinks of season X syndrome - we ran out of ideas, so lets make the villain secretly a big softie on the inside.
Honestly, if it was Abaddon's dream, he should be livid that someone's trying to usurp/destroy what should rightfully, in his own mind, be his.
The dream is from the perspective of the person who's finding "The Key" and using it to open a lock made of the light of the last dying stars, though - at which point they doubt what they're doing and think they're actually being used. It doesn't seem like something that really fits many characters other than Abaddon.
While Ezekyle can absolutely be presented as a more complex character, I think going from blowing up Cadia to "heart leaping to see the light of the stars" and "weeping to feel such hope" stinks of season X syndrome - we ran out of ideas, so lets make the villain secretly a big softie on the inside.
Honestly, if it was Abaddon's dream, he should be livid that someone's trying to usurp/destroy what should rightfully, in his own mind, be his.
I think it's the Lion, if only because we have the Rumours going on since before AoO was announced, and corporate 'rumours' and 'teasing' are usually much, much less complex and nuanced than fan theories
The Lion isn't the one obtaining and using the Key to unlock something though.
Rihgu wrote: Well, in Saturnine he does note how beautiful of a day it is outside and lament on Perturabo's behalf that Perturabo is cooped up in his computer room doing computer stuff (commanding the entire Siege of Terra himself). Seems like a big softy to me.
Eww.
In all seriousness, I don't mind him expressing thoughts and emotions that go beyond pure hatred for the Imperium, but he is a brutal, revenge driven man who's only second to Horus in terms of damage caused to the galaxy as a whole in pursuit of revenge and personal gain. You have to account for that when writing him.
Too tired for a rational answer, but could it be Luther? Fatherless Son- being sent home from the Great Crusade with his Green armor because he and the greenies(Caliban Dark Angels) turned to Chaos. He can find the key to undo it all, restoring the fallen and releasing the Lion. Seeing the sky after being locked away in the Rock. Having made bad friend choices, joining chaos. Then we still will get Lion’el back, just later as this story line gets resolved. The ravenwing can start hunting the new Imperium enemies instead of waging their own war. Terrible idea all together...but GW.
Too tired for a rational answer, but could it be Luther? Fatherless Son- being sent home from the Great Crusade with his Green armor because he and the greenies(Caliban Dark Angels) turned to Chaos. He can find the key to undo it all, restoring the fallen and releasing the Lion. Seeing the sky after being locked away in the Rock. Having made bad friend choices, joining chaos. Then we still will get Lion’el back, just later as this story line gets resolved. The ravenwing can start hunting the new Imperium enemies instead of waging their own war. Terrible idea all together...but GW.
Can't-believe-it's-not-Luther, same bland taste but with 50% less Chaos
It could be a lot of things, but from a marketing point of view bringing back a Primarch ought to be much more profitable and 'awesome' than doing a side character that less people know about. Everybody knows the Primarchs, while Luther is more like an insider thing for the people that read novels and are involved in the background. He certainly lacks the inherent 'Wow'-factor that the Primarchs have. That being said, the book may still focus on him for story reasons, but it will probably be about the return of the Lion, if that makes any sense.
While Ezekyle can absolutely be presented as a more complex character, I think going from blowing up Cadia to "heart leaping to see the light of the stars" and "weeping to feel such hope" stinks of season X syndrome - we ran out of ideas, so lets make the villain secretly a big softie on the inside.
Honestly, if it was Abaddon's dream, he should be livid that someone's trying to usurp/destroy what should rightfully, in his own mind, be his.
I think it's the Lion, if only because we have the Rumours going on since before AoO was announced, and corporate 'rumours' and 'teasing' are usually much, much less complex and nuanced than fan theories - even though GW has some 'deep' concepts hidden in its lore somewhere, the actual lore is mostly comic book level writing, which is itself a huge range from the literary noticeable to pure junk. And the corporate marketing based on this lore is still some rungs lower on the ladder.
The prophecy can be made to fit a lot of different thing, as is the nature of prophecies, and with enough convoluted and motivated reasoning you can make the cards fit a lot of people and things, from the Lion to Valdor, to Russ, to Abaddon or to a released unbroken C'tan or even a completely new faction, the Star Child or whatever.
In the end it's gonna be the Big Hunk'o'Marine™ you can sell a flashy model worth 100$ for.
I'm inclined to share this view. Corporate marketing led prophecy done right shouldn't go down the bs mysticism route very far. Its meant to give people actual hints of what they should expect, and get them excited over those expectations rather than disappointed to have their guesses revealed as false.
A green knight with a white winged helmet in a forest fighting a monster is exactly what you think it is, not what you would rather want it to be.
Because otherwise...
H.B.M.C. wrote: Watch the reveal for the final book end up being:
Arks of Omen: Guilliman
It's going to be Arks of Omen: Nudist Midget Wrestlers.
We'll finally find out what Watchers in the Dark are hiding under those robes.
Maybe the Key isn't the Lion or some Dark Age piece of technology, but some random super important prisoner of the Dark Angels that GW just never ever mentioned in the lore before
GaroRobe wrote: Maybe the Key isn't the Lion or some Dark Age piece of technology, but some random super important prisoner of the Dark Angels that GW just never ever mentioned in the lore before
We also have the "Fool, Inversed" - "a change in spirit from Fury to Serenity?", "Daemo, Inversed" of chaos turning in on itself, and the "Lost Child" has something that could be referencing the Eye of Horus in it's borders
I think there is room for the Lion and Abaddon becoming the Overlord of Nihilus, and the split becoming two rival empires rather than a single Imperium struggling to reconnect.
Tastyfish wrote: We also have the "Fool, Inversed" - "a change in spirit from Fury to Serenity?", "Daemo, Inversed" of chaos turning in on itself, and the "Lost Child" has something that could be referencing the Eye of Horus in it's borders
I think there is room for the Lion and Abaddon becoming the Overlord of Nihilus, and the split becoming two rival empires rather than a single Imperium struggling to reconnect.
Spoilers for the latest Ark of Omen book
Spoiler:
The chaos turning on itself is this: Be'lakor, alongside word bearers, alpha legion, daemons, etc, invade the Rock and attack both Dark Angels and Vashtorr's forces. Be'lakor thinks Vashtorr is too full of himself and needs to be humbled. So thanks to Be'lakor, Vashtorr's plans on the Rock aren't completed, though it sounds like the DA are headed into a trap if they pursue Vashtorr for revenge
Also the Key is clearly being carried by Azrael's Watcher in the Dark model. It has a nice key ring, and a book
Tastyfish wrote: We also have the "Fool, Inversed" - "a change in spirit from Fury to Serenity?", "Daemo, Inversed" of chaos turning in on itself, and the "Lost Child" has something that could be referencing the Eye of Horus in it's borders
I think there is room for the Lion and Abaddon becoming the Overlord of Nihilus, and the split becoming two rival empires rather than a single Imperium struggling to reconnect.
Spoilers for the latest Ark of Omen book
Spoiler:
The chaos turning on itself is this: Be'lakor, alongside word bearers, alpha legion, daemons, etc, invade the Rock and attack both Dark Angels and Vashtorr's forces. Be'lakor thinks Vashtorr is too full of himself and needs to be humbled. So thanks to Be'lakor, Vashtorr's plans on the Rock aren't completed, though it sounds like the DA are headed into a trap if they pursue Vashtorr for revenge
Also the Key is clearly being carried by Azrael's Watcher in the Dark model. It has a nice key ring, and a book
Spoilers for AoO: Vashtorr
Spoiler:
Apparently, Vashtorr is on the cusp of slaying Azrael when he gets surprise-suplexed by Be'lakor and has to retreat. After his failure to secure the Key, he says that he can still win, by making the DA bring the key-part to him. To this end, he has prepared agents among his attacking force with memory engrams about his 'secret base' to lure the DA into a trap.
Said trap is laid in the Somnium system, which is interesting for two reasons.
1. 'Somnium' closely relates to the latin word for 'sleep'
2. The Somnium system is only mentioned in one other source: The Dark Angels codex supplement mentions it as the place where Luther is supposedly amassing an army of the Fallen in 'unseen numbers' right now.
), what about that makes him interesting? How does he interact with imperial forces without immediately getting shot in the face?
