Me too, especially after seeing how they look from the other side. They seem to be more like a SM jetpack unit even (technical concept, not neccessarily how they will work in the game)
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Well at least Kan can now stop trying to argue that Fly isn't what allows Crisis Suits to Fall Back and Shoot.
Yup. I was wrong.
I was really hoping it would be a bespoke rule, as that would make Crisis Suits unique and interesting and open up the door for something like the Seraphim to get a similar rule without just making it so that units with "Fly" ignore the penalty for Falling Back.
The minimum move rules interest me greatly, particularly in terms of Flyers being the archtypical minimum move. Does this mean that Flyers will be able to turn as they please? Most GW stores in the UK operate on 4x4 tables to save space, 12" minimum move will have Flyers crashing off the table in a few turns at most.
So that settles the Fly debate then? It's a common keyword. So Ongoing reserves seems to be out. Fly off the table with that Flyer? It's gone. Damn, i gotta get better at moving flyers now
Soo... This launch won't be like the AOS one, and you need to buy army lists like normal in "index" books rather than having free PDFs, and then somewhere along the way these are getting updated with codex books? Is that accurate? Sorry if I missed the discussion...
I guess I could play my army as a khorne chaos army with the Khorne keyword... but that is not really the same... Well new rules, new game new army I guess...
FunJohn wrote: So that settles the Fly debate then? It's a common keyword. So Ongoing reserves seems to be out. Fly off the table with that Flyer? It's gone. Damn, i gotta get better at moving flyers now
Hence my post. Assuming they can only turn 90 as per 7th ed, there's only so much they can possibly do, and it gets more difficult if playing on smaller tables (like several/most GW stores).
Frozocrone wrote: So will the Imperium Index 1 factions all be allies and so on?
I hope they remove ally shenanigans in general to be honest.
If you share factions you share an FOC but you can lose out on specific faction bonuses.
Hmm this makes sense...kind of.
I think I will get to basics with the rules before recommitting - and if I recommit, only use one army for the time being.
It lets stuff like Khorne Daemonkin work without needing a seperate codex just for that army instead of a combined Chaos book. It also lets the other gods get in on the Daemonkin fun.
From what GW has said in the Facebook Q&As the Daemonkin army would share anything from the Chaos and Khorne keywords (which are also the keywords that let them ally as they are shared) but they can't rules for keywords they don't share (like anything that targets Traitor Astartes).
spiralingcadaver wrote: Soo... This launch won't be like the AOS one, and you need to buy army lists like normal in "index" books rather than having free PDFs, and then somewhere along the way these are getting updated with codex books? Is that accurate? Sorry if I missed the discussion...
So,
index Imperium I: Space Marines, Blood angels, Dark angels, Space Wolves, Grey knights, Deadwatch, Legion of the damned.
Index Imperium II: Astra militarum, Adeptus Mechanicus, Imperial Knights, Imperial Agents, Talons of the emperor.
Index Chaos: Heretic astartes, Chaos daemons, Questor traitoris
Index xenos I: Craftworld, Drukhari, Harlequin, Ynnari, Necrons.
Index Xenos II: Orks, Tau empire, Tyranids, genestealer cult.
As an Eldar/Orc player I have to get Main book and Xenos 1+2 to get the stuff I need to play! hmmm.
Also where Sisters of Battle,{dont like new name}.
Have they been finally dropped?
Was the only Imperial Army I was interested in doing.
:(
I was really hoping it would be a bespoke rule, as that would make Crisis Suits unique and interesting and open up the door for something like the Seraphim to get a similar rule without just making it so that units with "Fly" ignore the penalty for Falling Back.
Ah well...
To be fair, a Crisis Suit falling back is very different from a Jetbike falling back. Their movement speed will be far more limited; if the whole unit can't get more than 1" from an enemy unit they're stuck. Some clever positioning of transports nearby can do a lot to help there. Plus we've already seen special unit rules that let you prevent enemies from falling back at all, I have no doubt there will be more of those.
FunJohn wrote: So that settles the Fly debate then? It's a common keyword. So Ongoing reserves seems to be out. Fly off the table with that Flyer? It's gone. Damn, i gotta get better at moving flyers now
Hence my post. Assuming they can only turn 90 as per 7th ed, there's only so much they can possibly do, and it gets more difficult if playing on smaller tables (like several/most GW stores).
Well, we already know there's no concept of facing, so it's not so much freely turn as just moving somewhere. One of those odd rules interactions which sorts itself out I guess.
Weazel wrote: I get that people link jump packs with assault, but to me this Inceptor squad doesn't seem to have anything to do with assault. I mean they seem to have two regular boltguns. I'm thinking flying dakka marines, Crysis Suit style.
My thoughts as well. I really dislike the models but maybe they are so different they will grow on me everything else in the box is awesome I love the nurgle capt!
So....going back of several pages of Aussie Anger and the like to the model release I have mixed feelings.
The scale of the Primaris is great. I can even get behind The extra armour plating on the midsection of the armour (it's not like wearing actual body armour doesn't make you look fat in real life....no wait, it does). But there is definitely something missing in the look of the new guys but I can't place my finger on it.
The armoured hood rather makes sense from tactical design standpoint, though it definitely makes models look like they're training to be chapter Librarians.
On the flip side I love the new Nurgle models and if I was into building armies with Rhinos I'd be all over that set in a heartbeat. The Bloat Drone looks pretty fantastic as well and is a nice update to FW's design without getting silly
I am surprised that the 5 books were for the factions instead of the core rules being one of them, but the division makes sense and I will likely end up getting all of them in the long run because they're tons cheaper than getting the codexes currently.
Core rulebook blew me away. 12 pages of core rules doesn't take up much space there, so with a triple digit page count I'm hoping most of the book is dedicated to mission and terrain rules.
Overall I'm fairly pleased with what I'm seeing, though I still feel something is lacking on the Primaris Marines. But since I'm not planning on getting any that's a non-issue for me right now.
Also where Sisters of Battle,{dont like new name}.
Have they been finally dropped?
Was the only Imperial Army I was interested in doing.
:(
Sisters are probably in Imperial Agents list.
Someone confirmed that with Facebook and there was a screenshot of that a couple pages back. Basically it's the general Imperium section for Sisters, Inquisition and Assassins,
A truly hi-larious objection, given that that's exactly what they did to turn their website into a mere webstore in the first place - it used to be an actual place for news and articles.
Guess what - people aren't looking at the GW website all day, but most are checking Facebook constantly. There is zero reason for them to develop live streaming for their own website when they have Facebook and Twitch.
I was really hoping it would be a bespoke rule, as that would make Crisis Suits unique and interesting and open up the door for something like the Seraphim to get a similar rule without just making it so that units with "Fly" ignore the penalty for Falling Back.
Ah well...
To be fair, a Crisis Suit falling back is very different from a Jetbike falling back. Their movement speed will be far more limited; if the whole unit can't get more than 1" from an enemy unit they're stuck. Some clever positioning of transports nearby can do a lot to help there. Plus we've already seen special unit rules that let you prevent enemies from falling back at all, I have no doubt there will be more of those.
If I'm going to be honest, and try not to derail things further, a big reason why I was wanting it to be a bespoke rule?
To prevent the silliness of Riptides potentially being able to Fall Back and fire normally.
We don't have the full rules yet for everything, but one of my biggest concerns is things that didn't need help(Jetbikes, Riptides, FMCs) getting a pretty significant boost with a catch-all special benefit for Flying.
It seems like "Fly" is going to be a Big Deal from the outset.
I can't understand everyone hating on the jump dudes. They're absolutely amazing! I really hope that the Primaris characters have a jump pack option, I really want a jump lieutenant or a captain.
As for the captain, that photo really shows what's wrong with the pose; the upper torso leans backwards, making the stomach look fat. The legs and the right arm bending backwards don't help either. I need to completely chop up this dude and rebuild him.
I can't speak for anyone else, but here's the two reasons I'm hating on the jump dudes (and indeed, ALL of the Primaris Marines):
First, for the modeler and hobbyist: GW has been a company, for years, which has been amazingly friendly for the modeler and converter. SM are pretty much the paragon of that treatment. Bits work across models, etc. It's very collector-friendly and rewards a deep bits box. You can convert from one Chapter to another, use elements from one model to another, etc. The introduction of what seems to be a complete redesign of the range in a slightly different scale torpedoes this friendliness. Much of the current SM range will not be compatible with the new range, and much of the new range will not be compatible with the old range. While this doesn't hurt a new buyer that much, I think it will be bad for both the current 'long-term' hobbyist, and for the development of MORE long-term hobbyists. While people starting new games or new armies are quite happy to assemble 'out of the box', as people play longer and collect longer, they often want to do more customized and personalized models. Creating an entirely new and somewhat incompatible range for your bestselling line complicates that. Given that GW was able to release plastic Mark IV and Plastic Mark III and plastic Tartaros and Plastic Cataphracti armor, I'm not sure why it was impossible to design a Mark IX or Mark X armor which wasn't almost completely compatible with all the plastic stuff that has been put out.
Even your own quote helps support this point. "Chopping up a dude and reposing him" is a fine and time-honored activity for GW hobbyists. But making your core range less compatible with itself isn't helpful to that.
Second, for the development of the storyline: The introduction of a new sect of Marines which appear to be physically superior to all previous Astartes creates a kind of power imbalance. How 'heroic' are regular marines when Primaris marines are better than them? How elite are the Deathwatch if Primaris marines are bigger and stronger? Will the Deathwatch now preferentially recruit Primaris candidates? Are the Primaris physically superior to Grey Knights? Will the Grey Knights be supplanted by Primaris GK? How do the Primaris compare to Custodian Guard? Will the Custodes retire back to Terra now that Primaris marines are present? Was the threat to Terra reduced by the introduction of new Marines? Can the Primaris marines turn renegade? Will there be Chaos Renegade Primaris marines? How do Imperial heroes like Cassius feel about the Primaris? Will they be pleased with physically superior Marines in their midst? How will line Astartes regard serving alongside Primaris? How will the average Imperial Citizen feel? Will they be more relieved to see Primaris marines, or less pleased to see 'regular' Astartes?
"Oh, the Emperor didn't bless us as much as I hoped. The 'normal' Angels of Death are here. I had hoped for the bigger ones."
Again, as a storyline, Guilliman being revived and forcing the Imperial industry of war to roll out a new and improved Mark of Armor would be simple, decisive, and would not have entailed all these problematic elements that, in my opinion, will both HAVE to be dealt with in the storyline, and will also be a hindrance and/or distraction from what should have been a refreshing, engaging, and really impactful shift forward in the narrative. It may be realistic to have your principles dissolve into petty bickering on the eve of a major offensive, but it doesn't mean that it's an editorially good idea if it draws focus from the plot.
JohnnyHell wrote: The endless posts from people who simply haven't read the info are tedious. Use your eyes and stop asking people to spoonfeed you!!!
There's over 300 pages in this thread and around 40 links to rules in the OP, no including the FAQs which have a ton of non-info banter through which you might be able to sift a few more actual answers. I've been trying to keep on top of stuff, but that's a ridiculous amount of stuff for me to just "use my eyes" if I'm not looking for something obvious.
JohnnyHell wrote: The endless posts from people who simply haven't read the info are tedious. Use your eyes and stop asking people to spoonfeed you!!!
There's over 300 pages in this thread and around 40 links to rules in the OP, no including the FAQs which have a ton of non-info banter through which you might be able to sift a few more actual answers. I've been trying to keep on top of stuff, but that's a ridiculous amount of stuff for me to just "use my eyes" if I'm not looking for something obvious.
I keep up despite not being online for than six hours or so on most days, but I'm also crazy and do those Facebook round ups (looks like I,ll have a fair share to do today between the launch info, whatever today's article is and the Faction Focus too).
But I agree, there is a lot of info, but there are a lot of people who basically jump into the thread and ask something that has been answered already on that very same page.
I don't recommend trying to read EVERYTHING but the last page or two shouldn't hurt to prevent us being bogged down with multiple repeats of the same question.
frozenwastes wrote: I think his point might be to read whatever the latest article is before commenting on it or asking questions that reading it would answer.
tirnaog wrote: So,
index Imperium I: Space Marines, Blood angels, Dark angels, Space Wolves, Grey knights, Deadwatch, Legion of the damned.
Index Imperium II: Astra militarum, Adeptus Mechanicus, Imperial Knights, Imperial Agents, Talons of the emperor.
Index Chaos: Heretic astartes, Chaos daemons, Questor traitoris
Index xenos I: Craftworld, Drukhari, Harlequin, Ynnari, Necrons.
Index Xenos II: Orks, Tau empire, Tyranids, genestealer cult.
As an Eldar/Orc player I have to get Main book and Xenos 1+2 to get the stuff I need to play! hmmm.
Also where Sisters of Battle,{dont like new name}.
Have they been finally dropped?
Was the only Imperial Army I was interested in doing.
:(
To further break it down for you, based on old Codex names
Imperium 1 contains: Space Marines (Dark Angels, White Scars, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists and Black Templars, Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Salamanders, Raven Guard, and homebrew, and possibly the Angels of Death, Clan Rakuun, Sentinels of Terra, White Scars and Raven Guard supplements), Grey Knights and Deathwatch. Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Dark Angels have been rolled into the main Space Marines section.
Imperium 2 contains Astra Militarum (Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers), Adeptus Mechanicus (Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii), Imperial Knights, Imperial Agents (Inquisition, Officio Assassinorum, Sisters of Battle) and Talons of the Emperor (Sisters of Silence and Adeptus Custodes)
Chaos contains Chaos Space Marines (possibly including Black Legion, Traitor Legions and Crimson Slaughter supplements) Chaos Daemons and Renegade Knights. Khorne Daemonkin is covered by having all said units in that book already in this book.
Xenos 1 contains* Craftworld Eldar (possibly including Iyanden supplement), Dark Eldar (possibly including Haemonculae Covens supplement), Harlequins and Ynnari, as well as Necrons.
Xenos 2 contains Tau Empire (and possible the Farsight Enclave supplement), Orks, Tyranids and Genestealer Cult.
*Xenos 1 is also cool as it contains all the unit rules you'll need to fight the War in Heaven!!!!
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
Matt.Kingsley wrote:I wonder if we'll still be seeing the normal article and faction focus today with all this pre-order information?
I hope so. Maybe we won't see an article today, but I'm hoping today is finally the Necron article.
Requizen wrote:I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
I said it earlier but I'll say it again - there can't be a 90 pivot rule, because there's no "facing" to pivot; you already count as pointing whichever way you want.
I was really hoping it would be a bespoke rule, as that would make Crisis Suits unique and interesting and open up the door for something like the Seraphim to get a similar rule without just making it so that units with "Fly" ignore the penalty for Falling Back.
Ah well...
To be fair, a Crisis Suit falling back is very different from a Jetbike falling back. Their movement speed will be far more limited; if the whole unit can't get more than 1" from an enemy unit they're stuck. Some clever positioning of transports nearby can do a lot to help there. Plus we've already seen special unit rules that let you prevent enemies from falling back at all, I have no doubt there will be more of those.
If I'm going to be honest, and try not to derail things further, a big reason why I was wanting it to be a bespoke rule?
To prevent the silliness of Riptides potentially being able to Fall Back and fire normally.
We don't have the full rules yet for everything, but one of my biggest concerns is things that didn't need help(Jetbikes, Riptides, FMCs) getting a pretty significant boost with a catch-all special benefit for Flying.
It seems like "Fly" is going to be a Big Deal from the outset.
To be fair we know nothing about the rules that actually make those units good.
For instance I doubt eldar jet bikes are the only jetbikes with a 3+ sv and i expect jink to be gone, bikes receiving 1 toughness also make no sense this edition, scatter lasers are a lot less scary with ap0. Fmc are also completely changed snapshots at fliers sounds gone instead it's likely just a -1 to hit modifier and some movement bonus with the fly keyword. There is also no toe in cover for flyers. The riptide seems better but we don't know it's rules or it's costs so it sounds just like a low hitpoint MC with some guns just like an eldar grav tank.
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.
That doesn't clear up flyers though. If flyers are still (somehow) restricted to that same limited turning, they will quickly go out of fashion as people learn that having a model that comes on for 1 turn then flies into oblivion is terrible.
I can't speak for anyone else, but here's the two reasons I'm hating on the jump dudes (and indeed, ALL of the Primaris Marines):
First, for the modeler and hobbyist: GW has been a company, for years, which has been amazingly friendly for the modeler and converter. SM are pretty much the paragon of that treatment. Bits work across models, etc. It's very collector-friendly and rewards a deep bits box. You can convert from one Chapter to another, use elements from one model to another, etc. The introduction of what seems to be a complete redesign of the range in a slightly different scale torpedoes this friendliness. Much of the current SM range will not be compatible with the new range, and much of the new range will not be compatible with the old range. While this doesn't hurt a new buyer that much, I think it will be bad for both the current 'long-term' hobbyist, and for the development of MORE long-term hobbyists. While people starting new games or new armies are quite happy to assemble 'out of the box', as people play longer and collect longer, they often want to do more customized and personalized models. Creating an entirely new and somewhat incompatible range for your bestselling line complicates that. Given that GW was able to release plastic Mark IV and Plastic Mark III and plastic Tartaros and Plastic Cataphracti armor, I'm not sure why it was impossible to design a Mark IX or Mark X armor which wasn't almost completely compatible with all the plastic stuff that has been put out.
Even your own quote helps support this point. "Chopping up a dude and reposing him" is a fine and time-honored activity for GW hobbyists. But making your core range less compatible with itself isn't helpful to that.
I have a whole army of fully converted space marines. Every dude is upscaled and otherwise converted in some manner. But I've been building and converting these basically same multipart marines since they were first released during the third edition (every kit after that has basically been a slight variation) and I'm ready for something new. These new kits look amazing, and I cant wait that I get to build and convert them. I cant remember when I last was this exited about space marines (probably when those 3rd ed multipart kits were released.)
Now, I'm a bit worried about the lack of variation, and I'm a tad sad that there seems to be very little of those little unique differences in these new kits that exist in the older kits. But I'm sure given time, when we will get new Primaris kits and chapter specific stuff, there will be loads of variation again. And meanwhile, some older marine parts remain compatible, I am currently going through my marine head and shoulderpad collection to see which I want to use with these new marines.
Second, for the development of the storyline: The introduction of a new sect of Marines which appear to be physically superior to all previous Astartes creates a kind of power imbalance. How 'heroic' are regular marines when Primaris marines are better than them? How elite are the Deathwatch if Primaris marines are bigger and stronger? Will the Deathwatch now preferentially recruit Primaris candidates? Are the Primaris physically superior to Grey Knights? Will the Grey Knights be supplanted by Primaris GK? How do the Primaris compare to Custodian Guard? Will the Custodes retire back to Terra now that Primaris marines are present? Was the threat to Terra reduced by the introduction of new Marines? Can the Primaris marines turn renegade? Will there be Chaos Renegade Primaris marines? How do Imperial heroes like Cassius feel about the Primaris? Will they be pleased with physically superior Marines in their midst? How will line Astartes regard serving alongside Primaris? How will the average Imperial Citizen feel? Will they be more relieved to see Primaris marines, or less pleased to see 'regular' Astartes?
"Oh, the Emperor didn't bless us as much as I hoped. The 'normal' Angels of Death are here. I had hoped for the bigger ones."
Again, as a storyline, Guilliman being revived and forcing the Imperial industry of war to roll out a new and improved Mark of Armor would be simple, decisive, and would not have entailed all these problematic elements that, in my opinion, will both HAVE to be dealt with in the storyline, and will also be a hindrance and/or distraction from what should have been a refreshing, engaging, and really impactful shift forward in the narrative. It may be realistic to have your principles dissolve into petty bickering on the eve of a major offensive, but it doesn't mean that it's an editorially good idea if it draws focus from the plot.
Azazelx wrote: .
Having said that, there are lots of ways around paying local AU prices.
Selling your soul to Eldritch gods for a tax break seems like a bit of a losing deal for th Aussie and only really works once (unless you get into the habit of selling other people's souls).
More seriously, let's not get into pricing debates. It only makes the mods mad.
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.
That doesn't clear up flyers though. If flyers are still (somehow) restricted to that same limited turning, they will quickly go out of fashion as people learn that having a model that comes on for 1 turn then flies into oblivion is terrible.
Any model in any direction up to their max movemen stat is unclear how? It looks like for the sake if simplicity fliers work like skimmers.
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.
That doesn't clear up flyers though. If flyers are still (somehow) restricted to that same limited turning, they will quickly go out of fashion as people learn that having a model that comes on for 1 turn then flies into oblivion is terrible.
From reading that looks like the only difference between flyers and other units in the move phase will be that they have to move a set minimum distance.
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.
There's nothing preventing them from printing that rule on a Night Scythe or Eldar Hemlock though.
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.
There's nothing preventing them from printing that rule on a Night Scythe or Eldar Hemlock though.
True but just give them a low min distance and you don't need to bother. Simples
The average board around here has 3-4 bits of ruin terrain per 4*4 tile. I'm dreading having to gum up games trying to move around once perfectly navigable ruins because of that poorly thought out "walls are walls and not an abstraction for nebulous ruin terrain" rule.
Eyjio wrote: [So your complaint is that the core rules are cheaper, but if you add in the "codex" cost for 8th edition and not for any other editions, it's more expensive? Great logic there.
No, my complaint is that the supposedly "free rules" release of 40k would cost me over $300 on launch day just for rules. Great reading there.
No, the problem is that you expected every part of the rules for free, which based on both the existing AoS model which also has free core rules and unit profiles - and is not exactly hard to find information on and also the information that we'd already been given was not realistic or likely, so I'm going with wilful ignorance on your part.
Charging for some of the rules is a tad bait and switchy. Personally, I don't care they need to make money, but I can understand why some people are a bit miffed. Really though, you can't complain about the pricing on this. The amount of win included in the boxed set is insane. This is far better than past GW edition releases.
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.
That doesn't clear up flyers though. If flyers are still (somehow) restricted to that same limited turning, they will quickly go out of fashion as people learn that having a model that comes on for 1 turn then flies into oblivion is terrible.
From reading that looks like the only difference between flyers and other units in the move phase will be that they have to move a set minimum distance.
It does appear to be exactly that. In a 12-page ruleset how much more do you think they'll dedicate to Flyers' movement? That'll be it. Done.
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.
That doesn't clear up flyers though. If flyers are still (somehow) restricted to that same limited turning, they will quickly go out of fashion as people learn that having a model that comes on for 1 turn then flies into oblivion is terrible.
Any model in any direction up to their max movemen stat is unclear how? It looks like for the sake if simplicity fliers work like skimmers.
Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.
Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.
Eyjio wrote: [So your complaint is that the core rules are cheaper, but if you add in the "codex" cost for 8th edition and not for any other editions, it's more expensive? Great logic there.
No, my complaint is that the supposedly "free rules" release of 40k would cost me over $300 on launch day just for rules. Great reading there.
No, the problem is that you expected every part of the rules for free, which based on both the existing AoS model which also has free core rules and unit profiles - and is not exactly hard to find information on and also the information that we'd already been given was not realistic or likely, so I'm going with wilful ignorance on your part.
Charging for some of the rules is a tad bait and switchy. Personally, I don't care they need to make money, but I can understand why some people are a bit miffed. Really though, you can't complain about the pricing on this. The amount of win included in the boxed set is insane. This is far better than past GW edition releases.
There's no bait and switch. They're doing exactly what they said they'd do. That the internet turned that into FREE ROOLZ ALL RULES FREE is not GW's problem. From the off they were clear that you'd have to pay for faction and unit rules, core rules were free.
Dark Imperium Starter Set £95.00
Warhammer 40,000 8th:Rulebook £35
Tactical Objective Cards £8.00
Sector Imperialis Objectives £20
Command Dice £12.50
Wound Trackers £8.00
Combat Gauge £6.00
Indices £15.00 each
Dark Imperium Novel £18.00
So a 125 euros or 265 dollars for the starter. Not bad to be honest. The rules are also fairly cheaper respect the older books. THe indexes are the latest pricing bracket for Battletome, 25 euros. Not bad.
At the current exchange rate, $1.30 equals £1.00 (weak pound vs strong dollar)
Core Rules (5 Pages) Free
Dark Imperium Starter Set $123.50
Warhammer 40,000 8th:Rulebook $45.50
Tactical Objective Cards $10.40
Sector Imperialis Objectives $26.00
Command Dice $16.25
Wound Trackers $10.40
Combat Gauge $7.80
Indices (each) $19.50
Dark Imperium Novel $23.40
I guess these figures will be rounded and evened out, but this is the exact exchange rate.
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.
That doesn't clear up flyers though. If flyers are still (somehow) restricted to that same limited turning, they will quickly go out of fashion as people learn that having a model that comes on for 1 turn then flies into oblivion is terrible.
Any model in any direction up to their max movemen stat is unclear how? It looks like for the sake if simplicity fliers work like skimmers.
Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.
Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.
By being in a position where they can't position their final movement so that they don't end up within 1" of an enemny model, ANYWHERE. Zone denial could force a flier off the board or render it unable to complete a legal move, hence destroying it. Tough, but possible.
Deadshot wrote: Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.
Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.
I'm not sure if my posts are getting lost or just not being read, but again: the concept of pivoting doesn't make sense. There's no facing. A flyer can't be forced to move "forwards" because there IS no forwards. The idea of turning doesn't exist as a concept any more, because vehicles can move in any direction at any time.
Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.
Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.
I imagine it will apply only to a bomber making a last ditch run on a unit near the edge. Otherwise there may yet be bespoke rules for each flyer according to their capabilities that governs movement a little more.
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.
That doesn't clear up flyers though. If flyers are still (somehow) restricted to that same limited turning, they will quickly go out of fashion as people learn that having a model that comes on for 1 turn then flies into oblivion is terrible.
Any model in any direction up to their max movemen stat is unclear how? It looks like for the sake if simplicity fliers work like skimmers.
Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.
Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.
I haven't seen any exceptions yet in this edition. There aren't going to be any rules for 90 degree pivots. Doesn't make any sense. As to how does a model move off the board and get destroyed? Simple. Flyer can't be placed because miniatures are in the way regardless of how it moves. With nowhere left to go, you fly off the table. Not that uncommon of a scenario.
changemod wrote: The average board around here has 3-4 bits of ruin terrain per 4*4 tile. I'm dreading having to gum up games trying to move around once perfectly navigable ruins because of that poorly thought out "walls are walls and not an abstraction for nebulous ruin terrain" rule.
Better than the strategy I've seen of using parking tanks behind walls that no one can see through and then driving through them like they were the Kool Aid Man chapter on their turn to shoot and the like.
I'd rather see walls become impassible terrain for movement than silliness like that all the time.
Deadshot wrote: Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.
Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.
I'm not sure if my posts are getting lost or just not being read, but again: the concept of pivoting doesn't make sense. There's no facing. A flyer can't be forced to move "forwards" because there IS no forwards. The idea of turning doesn't exist as a concept any more, because vehicles can move in any direction at any time.
They are not getting lost, I answered by stating its possible that Flyers will (and I repeat again) be the exception to this, and will have a front and be forced to turn in specific ways. IE, Flyer specific rules that contradict the normal movement rules of anything can pivot as it pleases. Read: bespoke rules as suggested below.
Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.
Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.
I imagine it will apply only to a bomber making a last ditch run on a unit near the edge. Otherwise there may yet be bespoke rules for each flyer according to their capabilities that governs movement a little more.
changemod wrote: The average board around here has 3-4 bits of ruin terrain per 4*4 tile. I'm dreading having to gum up games trying to move around once perfectly navigable ruins because of that poorly thought out "walls are walls and not an abstraction for nebulous ruin terrain" rule.
Better than the strategy I've seen of using parking tanks behind walls that no one can see through and then driving through them like they were the Kool Aid Man chapter on their turn to shoot and the like.
I'd rather see walls become impassible terrain for movement than silliness like that all the time.
That doesn't strike me as a problem at all. They can be seen and shot back at after they've revealed themselves, and it's not weird at all that a tank could plough through a ruin adequately well with the chance of a collapse immobilising the vehicle already represented in the rules.
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.
That doesn't clear up flyers though. If flyers are still (somehow) restricted to that same limited turning, they will quickly go out of fashion as people learn that having a model that comes on for 1 turn then flies into oblivion is terrible.
Any model in any direction up to their max movemen stat is unclear how? It looks like for the sake if simplicity fliers work like skimmers.
Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.
Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.
Forgive my lack of spoiler tags on the quote tree, posting by tablet makes editing a pain.
That said, we have 12 pages of core rules. Core rules were where we flyer rules where kept in the past. Now where do you think we're going to find them hiding the pivot rule exactly? They already mentioned the Fly keyword, if there was a flyer exception to normal movement it should be right there as well, but it isn't.
So until proven otherwise, flyers don't pivot to move.
Ugghh not crazy about the look of these new Marines. I hate the masks too. I know that design has been creeping up a bit, especially in the 30k stuff, but I prefer the classic grill.
I commend what GW is doing here, but while I prefer always buy the starter set, I am actually going to skip out on this, which is a disappointment. Had they just been our traditional Space Marines, I would be grabbing this with no hesitation.
I expect GW to phase out their old marine models and all of them become Primaris eventually. Which means replacing all the current vehicles as they are too small.
gungo wrote: Are there any online retailers that still do 20-25% off? Or has gw new online cart policy stopped all that?
Also I Am completely confused what a combat gauge does!!!
Its a small chuck of plastic. It looks like a rectangle with a chuck taken out of one corner. One side is 3 inches long, the other side is 2 inches long, and the short end is 1 inch long, so you can quickly and easily measure 1-3 inches without whipping out your tape measure. It could be useful for unit coherancy or something.
changemod wrote: The average board around here has 3-4 bits of ruin terrain per 4*4 tile. I'm dreading having to gum up games trying to move around once perfectly navigable ruins because of that poorly thought out "walls are walls and not an abstraction for nebulous ruin terrain" rule.
Better than the strategy I've seen of using parking tanks behind walls that no one can see through and then driving through them like they were the Kool Aid Man chapter on their turn to shoot and the like.
I'd rather see walls become impassible terrain for movement than silliness like that all the time.
That doesn't strike me as a problem at all. They can be seen and shot back at after they've revealed themselves, and it's not weird at all that a tank could plough through a ruin adequately well with the chance of a collapse immobilising the vehicle already represented in the rules.
So let me park all my taknks behind this wall with my guys on the walkway above and then charge my vehicles through to gain an advantage without losing the protection of the ruins that should collapse after having an entire loadbearing wall driven through.
Yeah, unless punching through a wall risks crumpling the building, it was just gamey and cheap.
changemod wrote: The average board around here has 3-4 bits of ruin terrain per 4*4 tile. I'm dreading having to gum up games trying to move around once perfectly navigable ruins because of that poorly thought out "walls are walls and not an abstraction for nebulous ruin terrain" rule.
Better than the strategy I've seen of using parking tanks behind walls that no one can see through and then driving through them like they were the Kool Aid Man chapter on their turn to shoot and the like.
I'd rather see walls become impassible terrain for movement than silliness like that all the time.
Yeh I havent got a huge amount of 40k experience under my belt, but the number of games I lost because I didn't realise the dude could basically move through that rather wall looking wall to flame half my orks dead.... yeh that was aids. Now it seems you'll have to actually think about the path to take. if it turns out the board has wayy too much terrain, just remember to try it with less terrain. We also have the ability to house-rule and to adjust stuff. So just see what works terrain wise.
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.
That doesn't clear up flyers though. If flyers are still (somehow) restricted to that same limited turning, they will quickly go out of fashion as people learn that having a model that comes on for 1 turn then flies into oblivion is terrible.
Any model in any direction up to their max movemen stat is unclear how? It looks like for the sake if simplicity fliers work like skimmers.
Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.
Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.
I haven't seen any exceptions yet in this edition. There aren't going to be any rules for 90 degree pivots. Doesn't make any sense. As to how does a model move off the board and get destroyed? Simple. Flyer can't be placed because miniatures are in the way regardless of how it moves. With nowhere left to go, you fly off the table. Not that uncommon of a scenario.
considering all models in reserves die after turn 3 and falling back no longer exists. There is likely no more or little ongoing reserves and thus flyers can't choose to leave the board. However if a unit can't legally move or be placed on the board they will also die which I assume will also bring up interesting strategies.
gungo wrote: Are there any online retailers that still do 20-25% off? Or has gw new online cart policy stopped all that?
Quite the opposite. The new policy allows for up to 20% off in a webstore. If you're in the US thewarstore.com is great, but you should shop local whenever possible.
Dark Imperium Starter Set £95.00
Warhammer 40,000 8th:Rulebook £35
Tactical Objective Cards £8.00
Sector Imperialis Objectives £20
Command Dice £12.50
Wound Trackers £8.00
Combat Gauge £6.00
Indices £15.00 each
Dark Imperium Novel £18.00
So a 125 euros or 265 dollars for the starter. Not bad to be honest. The rules are also fairly cheaper respect the older books. THe indexes are the latest pricing bracket for Battletome, 25 euros. Not bad.
At the current exchange rate, $1.30 equals £1.00 (weak pound vs strong dollar)
Core Rules (5 Pages) Free
Dark Imperium Starter Set $123.50
Warhammer 40,000 8th:Rulebook $45.50
Tactical Objective Cards $10.40
Sector Imperialis Objectives $26.00
Command Dice $16.25
Wound Trackers $10.40
Combat Gauge $7.80
Indices (each) $19.50
Dark Imperium Novel $23.40
I guess these figures will be rounded and evened out, but this is the exact exchange rate.
Why are you doing this? C'mon people at this point I think we should all know exchange rate doesn't matter with GW and they will give you a prize based on their brackets. The starter will be 150 dollars.
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.
That doesn't clear up flyers though. If flyers are still (somehow) restricted to that same limited turning, they will quickly go out of fashion as people learn that having a model that comes on for 1 turn then flies into oblivion is terrible.
Any model in any direction up to their max movemen stat is unclear how? It looks like for the sake if simplicity fliers work like skimmers.
Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.
Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.
Forgive my lack of spoiler tags on the quote tree, posting by tablet makes editing a pain.
That said, we have 12 pages of core rules. Core rules were where we flyer rules where kept in the past. Now where do you think we're going to find them hiding the pivot rule exactly? They already mentioned the Fly keyword, if there was a flyer exception to normal movement it should be right there as well, but it isn't.
So until proven otherwise, flyers don't pivot to move.
I didn't ask if it was proven, I asked was it a possibility, and if not, why bother including that one rule about moving off the board, since previously the only time such things would occur unintentionally were Flyers and FMC being unable to turn enough to avoid that fate, and also because a model that can move in any direction it pleases can simply turn around and come back the way it came. It's a situation that will never come up in a year of months of sundays.
Oaka wrote:No whippy sticks?!?!
The bolded part is 100% the reason they don't do that anymore. Health and Safety. I know for a fact whippies were banned in my local store because when you give a 9 year old a whippy thing, the first thing he does is whip someone with it.
KTG17 wrote:Ugghh not crazy about the look of these new Marines. I hate the masks too. I know that design has been creeping up a bit, especially in the 30k stuff, but I prefer the classic grill.
I commend what GW is doing here, but while I prefer always buy the starter set, I am actually going to skip out on this, which is a disappointment. Had they just been our traditional Space Marines, I would be grabbing this with no hesitation.
I expect GW to phase out their old marine models and all of them become Primaris eventually. Which means replacing all the current vehicles as they are too small.
I am with you on this one pal, the forcing of Primaris marines in lieu of the classic marine is really saddening, as is the knowledge I'll never have a full chapter due to the Space Marine getting replaced with these monstrosities.
Bulldogging wrote: So...need to buy the rulebook after all, along with all codexes becoming obsolete at once.
New CEO is craftier than I thought.
Wait, which book has the points?
It helps that there's far less books to buy. As an eldar/harlequin/deldar player I'll only need to buy one book instead of three, all while having to pay less than the cheapest of the three.
Eyjio wrote: [So your complaint is that the core rules are cheaper, but if you add in the "codex" cost for 8th edition and not for any other editions, it's more expensive? Great logic there.
No, my complaint is that the supposedly "free rules" release of 40k would cost me over $300 on launch day just for rules. Great reading there.
No, the problem is that you expected every part of the rules for free, which based on both the existing AoS model which also has free core rules and unit profiles - and is not exactly hard to find information on and also the information that we'd already been given was not realistic or likely, so I'm going with wilful ignorance on your part.
Charging for some of the rules is a tad bait and switchy. Personally, I don't care they need to make money, but I can understand why some people are a bit miffed. Really though, you can't complain about the pricing on this. The amount of win included in the boxed set is insane. This is far better than past GW edition releases.
There's no bait and switch. They're doing exactly what they said they'd do. That the internet turned that into FREE ROOLZ ALL RULES FREE is not GW's problem. From the off they were clear that you'd have to pay for faction and unit rules, core rules were free.
It's definitely misleading. Core rules may be free, but as I read it, you'll have to pay for unit rules. So... you can't actually play the game at all with the "free" rules... not even in Open Play mode. If core rules require a purchase to be usable, they aren't really free.
Bulldogging wrote: So...need to buy the rulebook after all, along with all codexes becoming obsolete at once.
New CEO is craftier than I thought.
Wait, which book has the points?
Consideringnthe massive change in game design invalidating all the books was a given. Just like when we moved from RT to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. It's less craftiness and more a side effect of game design changes.
If I understand correctly, both power and points should be in the faction books, with the match points seperate from the unit entries so all the options are together and easilly adjusted by errata if there is a problem with balance,
I thought max discount with an online cart was 15% off not 20% off.....
Also, it seems they;ve taken a hint from other companies, like Steamforged, and gone to a multi-use ruler with quick and easy measurements around the edges.
I for one welcome our new Marines Lords and "Not Quite AoS Rules" 40k..
At the current exchange rate, $1.30 equals £1.00 (weak pound vs strong dollar)
Core Rules (5 Pages) Free
Dark Imperium Starter Set $123.50
Warhammer 40,000 8th:Rulebook $45.50
Tactical Objective Cards $10.40
Sector Imperialis Objectives $26.00
Command Dice $16.25
Wound Trackers $10.40
Combat Gauge $7.80
Indices (each) $19.50
Dark Imperium Novel $23.40
I guess these figures will be rounded and evened out, but this is the exact exchange rate.
They never do things as exchange rates. They have price brackets.
Dark Imperium Starter Set £95.00
Warhammer 40,000 8th:Rulebook £35
Tactical Objective Cards £8.00
Sector Imperialis Objectives £20
Command Dice £12.50
Wound Trackers £8.00
Combat Gauge £6.00
Indices £15.00 each
Dark Imperium Novel £18.00
You'd be looking at this:
20GBP price bracket=$35USD
6GBP=$10USD
8GBP=$12.50USD
12.50GBP=$20.75USD
15GBP=$22.25USD
35GBP=$57.75USD
95GBP=$157
I didn't do the novel because they've been roughly static in prices for awhile; at around $30 USD.
Eyjio wrote: [So your complaint is that the core rules are cheaper, but if you add in the "codex" cost for 8th edition and not for any other editions, it's more expensive? Great logic there.
No, my complaint is that the supposedly "free rules" release of 40k would cost me over $300 on launch day just for rules. Great reading there.
No, the problem is that you expected every part of the rules for free, which based on both the existing AoS model which also has free core rules and unit profiles - and is not exactly hard to find information on and also the information that we'd already been given was not realistic or likely, so I'm going with wilful ignorance on your part.
Charging for some of the rules is a tad bait and switchy. Personally, I don't care they need to make money, but I can understand why some people are a bit miffed. Really though, you can't complain about the pricing on this. The amount of win included in the boxed set is insane. This is far better than past GW edition releases.
But this has been known from first teasers. Why complain now?
A truly hi-larious objection, given that that's exactly what they did to turn their website into a mere webstore in the first place - it used to be an actual place for news and articles.
Guess what - people aren't looking at the GW website all day, but most are checking Facebook constantly. There is zero reason for them to develop live streaming for their own website when they have Facebook and Twitch.
Well, obviously there isn't zero reason, since "most" is not "all", is it. Plenty of folk check FB infrequently, or don't use it at all, and the point being made is the level of effort required by GW to integrate a feed into their main website is so hilariously small that there is no good reason not to. And you get that you can embed FB videos, yeah, you're(as per) arguing against a ludicrous strawman - nobody's demanding GW develop their own streaming platform tech from scratch, just that they aggregate their content on a central location with a live feed bar so folk who don't use certain services don't miss out or have to go hunting around for details.
Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.
Models in the way. A lot.
But yeah rare case. That is there just in case to remove need for re-entry rules.
But yet another house rule needed to make game make sense
TalonZahn wrote: I thought max discount with an online cart was 15% off not 20% off.....
Also, it seems they;ve taken a hint from other companies, like Steamforged, and gone to a multi-use ruler with quick and easy measurements around the edges.
I for one welcome our new Marines Lords and "Not Quite AoS Rules" 40k..
Yeah it should be 15% for everyone across the board as the maximum
Those movement rules are going to need a clarification already I can see....
A unit with FLY keyword can ignore other models when moving over them.
Enemy units says you can never move within 1" of an enemy model.
Does this mean you don't have to worry about enemy models with units with fly as you will never be within 1" of them? Are you allowed to stop on top of an enemy model if you have FLY? (Since it's not there effectively)
Can't tell from glancing at the shots... but wonder if the DG are re-scaled too to Primaris proportions?? at the least expect Deathwatch or TSons... but if they match the Primaris that is kinda... undermining.
But yeah rare case. That is there just in case to remove need for re-entry rules.
But yet another house rule needed to make game make sense
Clearly the flyer pulled off a manuever to allow them to fly back the way they came. It's not like we represent altitude properly anyways.
We don,t need flyers being locked into turn radii, nor should we expect it. Is it POSSIBLE that it's still a thing? Sure. But it's neither likely nor probable.
If it's a thing we can worry about when we find out, until then we're complaing about stuff we don't even have proof exist.
Eyjio wrote: [So your complaint is that the core rules are cheaper, but if you add in the "codex" cost for 8th edition and not for any other editions, it's more expensive? Great logic there.
No, my complaint is that the supposedly "free rules" release of 40k would cost me over $300 on launch day just for rules. Great reading there.
No, the problem is that you expected every part of the rules for free, which based on both the existing AoS model which also has free core rules and unit profiles - and is not exactly hard to find information on and also the information that we'd already been given was not realistic or likely, so I'm going with wilful ignorance on your part.
Charging for some of the rules is a tad bait and switchy. Personally, I don't care they need to make money, but I can understand why some people are a bit miffed. Really though, you can't complain about the pricing on this. The amount of win included in the boxed set is insane. This is far better than past GW edition releases.
But this has been known from first teasers. Why complain now?
Not complaining, but it isn't exactly as advertised. If you don't get points for the units or stratagems, you can kinda play, but not like one could in the past. I'm okay with it, but I understand why some people are miffed.
So I guess it'll be Faction Focus: Space Marines today, huh? Just a guess, but that would make the most sense.
Quickly back to the ruins debate I hope gw had the foresight to add toughness and wounds to ruins as I always found the fact a bunker can easily be destroyed and yet a ruins is impassible terrain to be a bad design and as said prior creates congested firing lanes of death. Something as trivial as all ruins toughness 8 and 12 wounds 3+sv make ruins resilient enough and pointless enough not to waste shooting into since they provide no scoring benefits, whereas actual buildings and bunkers can be toughness 9-10 and 12+ wounds and 3+/2+ sv.
Youn wrote: Those movement rules are going to need a clarification already I can see....
A unit with FLY keyword can ignore other models when moving over them.
Enemy units says you can never move within 1" of an enemy model.
Does this mean you don't have to worry about enemy models with units with fly as you will never be within 1" of them? Are you allowed to stop on top of an enemy model if you have FLY? (Since it's not there effectively)
It says you can't end your turn 1" away, not that you can never go anywhere 1" away. Nothing to clarify.
gungo wrote: [
I haven't seen any exceptions yet in this edition. There aren't going to be any rules for 90 degree pivots. Doesn't make any sense. As to how does a model move off the board and get destroyed? Simple. Flyer can't be placed because miniatures are in the way regardless of how it moves. With nowhere left to go, you fly off the table. Not that uncommon of a scenario.
considering all models in reserves die after turn 3 and falling back no longer exists. There is likely no more or little ongoing reserves and thus flyers can't choose to leave the board. However if a unit can't legally move or be placed on the board they will also die which I assume will also bring up interesting strategies.
If by strategies you mean flood flyer area with models correct term is gaming and not strategy.
jtrowell wrote: The Inceptors really look more like jetpack/flying infantry than jump infantry, they look like something that is supposed to be floting most of the time, not walking (look at the "pseudo boots" that they wear under their feets, they are like stirrups)
This would indeed make they closer to Tau battle suits than to jump pack assault squads, and explain the choice of weapons.
they are indeed, this photo shows the rear with more jets on the legs too
But yeah rare case. That is there just in case to remove need for re-entry rules.
But yet another house rule needed to make game make sense
Clearly the flyer pulled off a manuever to allow them to fly back the way they came. It's not like we represent altitude properly anyways.
We don,t need flyers being locked into turn radii, nor should we expect it. Is it POSSIBLE that it's still a thing? Sure. But it's neither likely nor probable.
If it's a thing we can worry about when we find out, until then we're complaing about stuff we don't even have proof exist.
But flyers turning on spot makes zero sense. It's already ridiculous they are on board(they are too fast to that). Turn on spot is even more stupid. There's limit to how stupid i accept before fixing it.
Eyjio wrote: [So your complaint is that the core rules are cheaper, but if you add in the "codex" cost for 8th edition and not for any other editions, it's more expensive? Great logic there.
No, my complaint is that the supposedly "free rules" release of 40k would cost me over $300 on launch day just for rules. Great reading there.
No, the problem is that you expected every part of the rules for free, which based on both the existing AoS model which also has free core rules and unit profiles - and is not exactly hard to find information on and also the information that we'd already been given was not realistic or likely, so I'm going with wilful ignorance on your part.
Charging for some of the rules is a tad bait and switchy. Personally, I don't care they need to make money, but I can understand why some people are a bit miffed. Really though, you can't complain about the pricing on this. The amount of win included in the boxed set is insane. This is far better than past GW edition releases.
But this has been known from first teasers. Why complain now?
Not complaining, but it isn't exactly as advertised. If you don't get points for the units or stratagems, you can kinda play, but not like one could in the past. I'm okay with it, but I understand why some people are miffed.
So I guess it'll be Faction Focus: Space Marines today, huh? Just a guess, but that would make the most sense.
Youn wrote: Those movement rules are going to need a clarification already I can see....
A unit with FLY keyword can ignore other models when moving over them.
Enemy units says you can never move within 1" of an enemy model.
Does this mean you don't have to worry about enemy models with units with fly as you will never be within 1" of them? Are you allowed to stop on top of an enemy model if you have FLY? (Since it's not there effectively)
Once your models stops its no longer moving now is it? This will most likely work exactly the same as jet pack moves do now. You ignore enemy models while moving, but at the end of the move you still have to be 1" away from them, so you can 'fly' over them but obviously not stand on top of them.
But yeah rare case. That is there just in case to remove need for re-entry rules.
But yet another house rule needed to make game make sense
Clearly the flyer pulled off a manuever to allow them to fly back the way they came. It's not like we represent altitude properly anyways.
We don,t need flyers being locked into turn radii, nor should we expect it. Is it POSSIBLE that it's still a thing? Sure. But it's neither likely nor probable.
If it's a thing we can worry about when we find out, until then we're complaing about stuff we don't even have proof exist.
But flyers turning on spot makes zero sense. It's already ridiculous they are on board(they are too fast to that). Turn on spot is even more stupid. There's limit to how stupid i accept before fixing it.
Eyjio wrote: [So your complaint is that the core rules are cheaper, but if you add in the "codex" cost for 8th edition and not for any other editions, it's more expensive? Great logic there.
No, my complaint is that the supposedly "free rules" release of 40k would cost me over $300 on launch day just for rules. Great reading there.
No, the problem is that you expected every part of the rules for free, which based on both the existing AoS model which also has free core rules and unit profiles - and is not exactly hard to find information on and also the information that we'd already been given was not realistic or likely, so I'm going with wilful ignorance on your part.
Charging for some of the rules is a tad bait and switchy. Personally, I don't care they need to make money, but I can understand why some people are a bit miffed. Really though, you can't complain about the pricing on this. The amount of win included in the boxed set is insane. This is far better than past GW edition releases.
But this has been known from first teasers. Why complain now?
Not complaining, but it isn't exactly as advertised. If you don't get points for the units or stratagems, you can kinda play, but not like one could in the past. I'm okay with it, but I understand why some people are miffed.
So I guess it'll be Faction Focus: Space Marines today, huh? Just a guess, but that would make the most sense.
Not as advertised? Exactly as said from day 1
then convince your opponent to use the advanced death for the skies rules which seperate flyers into types and likely restricts thier movements further.
Also the boxes have been coming with unit rules for awhile. I bet it will continue with them providing the "warscroll" in the box so you can play and have the rules for whatever unit you buy
gungo wrote: then convince your opponent to use the advanced death for the skies rules which seperate flyers into types and likely restricts thier movements further.
Why buy obsolete 7th ed book when there's no need? We already have bunch of fixes waiting for test run
Daedalus81 wrote: I find it hard to think that core rules will be free, but that we'll have no unit rules.
You can't do anything with free core rules and nothing else. I fully expect "scrolls" with power levels.
I expect power levels with points being in the Indexes. It did say that stratagems weren't included which is an odd choice. So you are getting a stripped down version of the game. Again, not complaining, but I can understand why people aren't happy.
"Also, while we’re on the subject of rules, we’ve some great news – the core rules for Warhammer 40,000 will be available for free! You’ll be able to download the Battle Primer PDF on games-workshop.com and warhammer40000.com from June 17th.
Current players will probably still want to pick up either the full Warhammer 40,000 book or the Dark Imperium box set though, as this gets you the Advanced Rules sections, loads more missions, as well as stratagems for open, narrative and matched play and of course, over 100 pages of new lore and background on the shape of the galaxy in the new Warhammer 40,000."
Youn wrote: Those movement rules are going to need a clarification already I can see....
A unit with FLY keyword can ignore other models when moving over them.
Enemy units says you can never move within 1" of an enemy model.
Does this mean you don't have to worry about enemy models with units with fly as you will never be within 1" of them? Are you allowed to stop on top of an enemy model if you have FLY? (Since it's not there effectively)
Once your models stops its no longer moving now is it? This will most likely work exactly the same as jet pack moves do now. You ignore enemy models while moving, but at the end of the move you still have to be 1" away from them, so you can 'fly' over them but obviously not stand on top of them.
I am looking at it from the view point of my Marine/GK force has 2 Stormravens and 2 Stormtalons. is the Stormraven allowed to move to the center of a large blob and fire. Technically it never went to hover mode. But I think with the new rules it is always in Hover mode?
tneva82 wrote: Not as advertised? Exactly as said from day 1
Um, no. Did they say if you want all the missions or if you want to be able to use stratagems you'll have to buy the rules? No they didn't. They said the rules will be free.
gungo wrote: then convince your opponent to use the advanced death for the skies rules which seperate flyers into types and likely restricts thier movements further.
Why buy obsolete 7th ed book when there's no need? We already have bunch of fixes waiting for test run
And rules. Lots of rules. All the rules you need to wage the bloodiest of wars in the far future. Alongside the core rules for the game, there are missions, full guidelines for the 3 ways to play (open, narrative and matched) and advanced rules to represent the myriad war zones of the far future, including all the rules you need to play games of Cities of Death, Planetstrike, Stronghold Assault and Death from the Skies.
I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
How would you pivot when vehicle facings no longer exist?
You guys are getting caught up in 7th. In 8th facing seems to be irrelevant. I would wager that flyer can shoot in any direction it wants and can move wherever it wants each turn.
tneva82 wrote: Not as advertised? Exactly as said from day 1
Um, no. Did they say if you want all the missions or if you want to be able to use stratagems you'll have to buy the rules? No they didn't. They said the rules will be free.
Did they say "The rules will be free" or did they say "rules will be free." The first encompasses all rules, the second only some rules.
In a game with giant space locusts, asexual fungi-xeno hybrids, undead robot zombies, post-human supermen, space nuns, Space India if it was Communist, poncy space elves, BDSM space elves, space elf clowns, and beings from an alternate dimension that is basically hell, flyers being able to turn on a dime should be the last complaint about not making sense.
Either the pilot pulled a quick turning manuever to end up on a reverse flight path, or the flyer is full of future tech that let,s it double in a VTOL kind of fashion similar to a Harrier, allowing it to temporarilly arrest forward momentum to make turns that it shouldn't normally make.
I mean if that bothers you still, why not consider the fact that the all the human flyers basically don't fly as much as they do fall towards the horizon faster than they fall down. ORKS have more understanding of areodynamics than the Imperium.
So yeah, turning around should be the last complaint regarding things making sense, not the first.
Youn wrote: Those movement rules are going to need a clarification already I can see....
A unit with FLY keyword can ignore other models when moving over them.
Enemy units says you can never move within 1" of an enemy model.
Does this mean you don't have to worry about enemy models with units with fly as you will never be within 1" of them? Are you allowed to stop on top of an enemy model if you have FLY? (Since it's not there effectively)
Once your models stops its no longer moving now is it? This will most likely work exactly the same as jet pack moves do now. You ignore enemy models while moving, but at the end of the move you still have to be 1" away from them, so you can 'fly' over them but obviously not stand on top of them.
I am looking at it from the view point of my Marine/GK force has 2 Stormravens and 2 Stormtalons. is the Stormraven allowed to move to the center of a large blob and fire. Technically it never went to hover mode. But I think with the new rules it is always in Hover mode?
Sorry, but I just can't wrap my head around that someone could possibly think that this may be allowed. Flyers have a base and that base has to be more than 1" away from enemy models when you place it (except for charging of course). Did you really think you could plonk your flyer ON TOP of your opponents (hopefully) painted models???
Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).
Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.
Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.
I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.
How would you pivot when vehicle facings no longer exist?
You guys are getting caught up in 7th. In 8th facing seems to be irrelevant. I would wager that flyer can shoot in any direction it wants and can move wherever it wants each turn.
As debated for a few pages, it could've been down to bespoke rules, but I think all debate has been covered on that.
changemod wrote: The average board around here has 3-4 bits of ruin terrain per 4*4 tile. I'm dreading having to gum up games trying to move around once perfectly navigable ruins because of that poorly thought out "walls are walls and not an abstraction for nebulous ruin terrain" rule.
Better than the strategy I've seen of using parking tanks behind walls that no one can see through and then driving through them like they were the Kool Aid Man chapter on their turn to shoot and the like.
I'd rather see walls become impassible terrain for movement than silliness like that all the time.
That doesn't strike me as a problem at all. They can be seen and shot back at after they've revealed themselves, and it's not weird at all that a tank could plough through a ruin adequately well with the chance of a collapse immobilising the vehicle already represented in the rules.
It's a major problem actually, since you don't remove the terrain feature. I have played games with massive walled ruins in the center field where people koolaid man back and forth while other units hide behind the same feature. It's moronic, if a tank drives through a wall, it stands to reason that wall should have a hole in it at least the size of the tank, this isn't a problem if your not using TLOS but 40k has been for a while now. THAT is the problem.
Really excited to finally have a release date! I do, however have to join in the crowd expressing distaste for the Primaris assault marines. If you're designing boots for your army, best not to take cues from the Super Mario Bros. movie
EnTyme wrote: Really excited to finally have a release date! I do, however have to join in the crowd expressing distaste for the Primaris assault marines. If you're designing boots for your army, best no to take cues from the Super Mario Bros. movie
Eh.
They're skids. Some of the real-world designs for exoskeletal assistance systems have skids in lieu of "feet".
tneva82 wrote: Not as advertised? Exactly as said from day 1
Um, no. Did they say if you want all the missions or if you want to be able to use stratagems you'll have to buy the rules? No they didn't. They said the rules will be free.
Did they say "The rules will be free" or did they say "rules will be free." The first encompasses all rules, the second only some rules.
This is from the FAQ:
How can I get the rules?
We’re going to make it easier than ever to get your hands on the rules and start playing. The core rules for the game will be free, and you’ll have several options on how you get your hands on the full rulebook. Watch this space for more.
With no stratagems and not all the missions, they are giving us more of a 40K lite. You either feel it was a bit misleading or you don't. I personally do. In any case, life moves on. Not a big deal and I'm done posting about it.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: Sorry if this has been asked/mentioned, but is there any price indication for the new starter box?
Dark Imperium release.
Dark Imperium Starter Set £95.00
Warhammer 40,000 8th:Rulebook £35
Tactical Objective Cards £8.00
Sector Imperialis Objectives £20
Command Dice £12.50
Wound Trackers £8.00
Combat Gauge £6.00
Indices £15.00 each
Dark Imperium Novel £18.00
EnTyme wrote: Really excited to finally have a release date! I do, however have to join in the crowd expressing distaste for the Primaris assault marines. If you're designing boots for your army, best no to take cues from the Super Mario Bros. movie
I think those are not boots but pedals to steer their jetpack. Yes, jetpack, not jumppack. I believe these guys will be permanently airborne and not landing after every jump like Assault Marines.
Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).
Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.
Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.
For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.
I personally am a fan of the new assault marines, they actually look like they're supposed to be able to fly around. I think it was mentioned in the starter box article that they come in from atmosphere or are dropped in so the reinforced legs and fins on the back make sense.
I'm curious as to if the Helblaster squad can take weapons other than plasma?
EnTyme wrote: Really excited to finally have a release date! I do, however have to join in the crowd expressing distaste for the Primaris assault marines. If you're designing boots for your army, best no to take cues from the Super Mario Bros. movie
Eh.
They're skids. Some of the real-world designs for exoskeletal assistance systems have skids in lieu of "feet".
Yea I bet they'll have some death from above rule that those skids play a role in.
EnTyme wrote: Really excited to finally have a release date! I do, however have to join in the crowd expressing distaste for the Primaris assault marines. If you're designing boots for your army, best not to take cues from the Super Mario Bros. movie
I feel like the whole new marine aesthetic was based largely on IronMan. I mean, I would love to see somebody paint one in hot rod red and gold. That saide, they look like one of his bulkier specialized suits like a smaller hulkbuster or whatever.
BTW, nice pull on the Mario Bros movie This is why we can't have nice things.
Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).
Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.
Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.
For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.
My impression was that similar to AoS the core rules (how to move, shoot etc) would be free, and that unit data sheets with the Power level rating would also be free, but then like battle tomes, the indices would give you expanded rules for each faction, and all the collected data sheets. The big rule book seems like it will have expanded rules and all the match play points costs. But I'm not certain of all this beyond the core rules being free.
Hey all third party bit makers! See those new style of shoulderpads the jump dudes and some of the characters have but the tacticals don't? I could really use something like that...
Daedalus81 wrote: I find it hard to think that core rules will be free, but that we'll have no unit rules.
You can't do anything with free core rules and nothing else. I fully expect "scrolls" with power levels.
Think about it moving forward. New players will buy a unit or 2 that have the scrolls within the box. They can then play with those models with the free online base rules. Makes a very low cost of entry to the game.
For existing players with a full army and all the bells and whistles, the full rulebook and an index is needed. But that full rulebook and index is still cheaper than 7th rulebook plus codex, never mind a few codexes.
Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).
Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.
Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.
For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.
Sorry to be rude about it but that's honestly your own problem. You need new rules every edition, that's never not been the case. Just think of this as a downpayment. Where in previous editions you might spend 400+ on models that become obselete in 6 months, you now have the rules already (so no further Pay To Pay cost until EVERYBODY has to do so, or maybe free PDF update or something) and can plan to buy only what will be useful and you like. Furthermore, no one wants to spend £75 on rules instead of models but that's been part of the game for years now, its just how it works. Its not extra cost, its expected cost. And new units and armies have always had to do this as well. Literally nothing has changed except they are going to give you the core rules (how the different phases and unit types work) as a PDF for free.
For the second paragraph, I can't follow you. You want the rules for free is what you're saying. That's fair. I want free stuff too, but you gotta pay for stuff bro. The models are one product and the game is another. You aren't getting 2 at once, it just doesn't work that way.
hmmm DG don't actually sound much different from now when you read it and think about it.
Interesting we now have two instances of teasers where potentially big units of infantry compleley ignore morale. Give me orks some hope, i'm expecting if a boyz unit is over x models they ignore morale
That said, they do look pretty solid and I imagine they'll run a fair number of points since they seem to be alble to potentially shrug off any wound, so full DG armies might get a touch smaller in model count unless you run a lot of zombies Poxwalkers.
It looks like we can expect each of the updated Cult boxes to see a unit specific special weapon or two, and a unit of unique cultists. Which is good. We need more to help the pure cult troop armies to have a little more flexibility and bite.
Another fine article from Frankie there… wait… what’s that? Can you hear that, off in the distance? Sounds like a Waaagh! is headed this way… come back on Thursday to learn about Orks in the new edition.
Another fine article from Frankie there… wait… what’s that? Can you hear that, off in the distance? Sounds like a Waaagh! is headed this way… come back on Thursday to learn about Orks in the new edition.
Oh my, now this I'm curious to see!
Unless they come back on Thursday and say we're getting Feral Ork rules I probably won,t be etting too hyped off that article.
So they made a fugly marine version of Seraphims, just to make sure Sisters don't have anything unique, to go with their all marines starter set. And now marines are officially 2/5th of 40k (unofficially more than that).
Great!
I really WANT to like the new DG models, but they've simply gone waay OTTAoS style on the details. I can't focus on any of the models, there's too much going on and they even look too clean with that paint job, why did they make a paint with nurgles rot, rust and corrosion and then use none of that on the DG models?
On the other hand, those cultists absolutely steals the cake. They're hilarious, dark and sinister looking, all at the same time!
Shadox wrote: So do we have any idea of the Plague Marines being multipose? The Primaris seem like it but on the Deathwatch I'm not sure at all.
Models in the starter are monopose:
Ah, thank you. So for me that means the Deathguard will go into the 'Others'-box instead of to the Word Bearers. Though they will come in handy for Black Crusade
dosiere wrote: Can someone explain what those command dice are about? Are they for marking activated units or some such?
You get command points for detachements that let you do stuff, i assume they are to keep track of how many you used and on what.
I asked the same question earlier and no one seems to know. The most of them looks like wound counters or something similar, and the ones at the top could maybe be for objectives?
dosiere wrote: Can someone explain what those command dice are about? Are they for marking activated units or some such?
Certain detachments will give you command points. Also, some characters will give you command points. I assume these dice are for you to keep track of your command points, which are finite. You spend the command points on stratagems.
angelofvengeance wrote: Did anyone see the sneaky bit of new scenery in the Cities of Death pic from this morning's announcement? Doesn't look like custom stuff...
It's a conversion using the Fortress of Redemption.
Edition Release Announcement Q: Interesting? Ground breaking, more like it. I cannot wait to get my hands on the Primaris. Since you're sitting on piles of multipart guys already, perhaps someday you'd consider my idea and make an advanced Marine armor kit, with all parts of the suit separate for an infinite amount of poses. Not that I'm complaining, seeing how good your new releases are! Also, since you're resurrecting cool old concepts, perhaps you'd be willing to do a new edition of the Vehicle - and now Monster - Design Rules? It's been fun building crazy war machines back in the 3rd Edition times.
Oh, and Nick, you know what I'm going to ask about, do you?
A: *sigh* I do,yeah.... but go on.. I know you like asking!
Q: Will the Primaris Marines function as elite choices in a regular Space Marine army? I'm trying to figure out how this would sit together with my new Betrayal at Calth box.
A: You can absolutely use these together with standard Space Marines; they work well together in one army.
Q1: Is the music in GW's videos custom recorded for GW? It's absolutely fantastic, completely fits the mood!!!
Q2: Much of the music I've heard in their videos is normally from licensed computer games, like the Dawn of War series, or Warhammer Online (the recent Kharadron release used some of the Dwarf music from Warhammer Online, for example).
Not sure where the track in the above video is from, though.
A: What [REDACTED] said! The music in this particular video is from the Warhammer Quest IOS game.
Q: What book has the Militarum Tempestus army list? I don't see it on the cover of the indexes shown.
A: They will be covered in the Imperium 2 book.
Q: Have you folks just made a post that is a repost of the last one you made?
A: We have indeed, as many people around the world may have been asleep when we posted it the first time!
Q: I hear they are snapfit? is that true? Hopefully stuff in the future wont be?
A: Sorry for the confusion on this one! These models are single-pose miniatures. They still need gluing together. As they are designed in a certain way, the sculptors Aly and Maxime have really gone to town on these and they look just superb.
Q: [REDACTED] .... prove your love for me woman !!!! Xxx
A: Well, that's the gauntlet thrown down, then?!
Q: A: Love this!
Q: Do we know if Primaris/DG are multipart or snap-fit single pose?
A: The Dark Imperium models are single-pose, but boy, are they brimming with character!
Q: Is the book the big rule book?
A: 280 pages of hardbacked glory!
Forge World's Post about 8th Edition Rules Q: Forge World, when these books are released can we please get a table of contents/list of what is contained in each book?
A: sounds like a great idea. We will get on it.
Q: Will you release army rules for eldar corsairs etc in the forthcoming books in June as well?
A: We will indeed- they are on the way.
Q: I know you guys mentioned that you will announce what's going on with Horus Heresy at warhammer fest, but I wish you could just spit it out already as Gw have been open with what there doing why not.
I've seen a lot of people selling the Heresy books thinking wear changing either way it's damaging the Heresy community with this delay
A: That's fair feedback, Harry. We will have all the latest about Horus Heresy at Warhammer Fest this weekend.
Q: So, index astartes is just marines? We will have to wait for Knights?
A: The book we have shown the Space Marines book and the article says
"Rules for all the rest of the Warhammer 40,000 Forge World range, including the myriad xenos races of the galaxy and the massed forces of the Astra Militarum and their accompanying Imperial Agents, will all be appearing in additional Index books that set to be released before the end of June."
Sounds like the Knights are on the way!
Q: Can you confirm whether or not Titans will be included with the index Astartes?
Having recently purchased the warlord to complete the trinity, I'm eager to be able to use him in more than just my local GW goodbye 7th apoc game.
A: Hey Drew- the first book covers forces of the Space Marines only. There will be more Imperial forces on the way soon.
Q: How much are these going to cost?
A: No word on that yet - watch this space for all the news.
Q: FORGE WORLD GOT US FAM
A: We sure have.
Faction Focus Death Guard Q: I know we have seen more models in the previews than the snap fit versions of DG in the start. This includes a picture of a DG termi that is not the same one found here. Will we be getting boxes in the near future that are to the full standard of model making vs the snap fit? Dark Vengeance never for CSM chosen or cultist non snap fit models. What are the plans to avoid the same lack of releases we had tied to Dark Vengeance?
A: We couldn't possibly say! Besides, if we say either way, it stops all the speculation fun!
Daedalus81 wrote: I'm confused - is it that plasma gun that is the blight launcher instead?
I expect they can still take plasmaguns. Its assualt which means 2 shots always at 24" but weaker than a (current) plamagun in strength
i expect a plasma will be 24" rapid fire s7 ap-3 d3 dam
so it's a weaker more mobile choice
also
I am groot? XD
So every growth going the exact same way and cumbersome at that. But the clincher is the fact that his oversized shoulder growth has 3 perfectly perpendicular spike that are all perfectly parallel to eachother driven in a manner that they face his own face not the enemy, and to top that off he couldn't do it himself, so one of his dimwitted, grinning idiot friends had to arrange them with his nurgle gifted protractor.... LMAO!
I like the mutties, except for a few minor complaints, one being that carbon copy idiot grin on EVRY ONE. you know the guy was just lazy with his CAD file on that one, then the over the top horns on again, EVERY ONE. That said the hazmat guy is my favorite
Sorry for the size of the pic. It is a pack for stores to go with 8th launch:
50 pages for army list A4
5 metal coins of 40k 30 measure rules of Ultramarines
20 posters in A3 size
20 pages of exclusive missions
50 battle booklet (Maybe a resume of the rules?)
A poster of A2 size of "Coming soon” of the new campaing: The Destiny of Konor.
Latro_ wrote: hmmm DG don't actually sound much different from now when you read it and think about it.
Interesting we now have two instances of teasers where potentially big units of infantry compleley ignore morale. Give me orks some hope, i'm expecting if a boyz unit is over x models they ignore morale
They sound weaker - everyone now gets relentless, they have to cast a psychic power rather than get shrouded at a certain distance, they don't re-roll FNP's of 1.
OTOH there's no instant death, and they are still T5 (although S3 vs T5 is now wound on 5+, not 6+).
Of course, without points, all this is moot. Now formations have gone, the power levels of those armies who really only were a bit OP due to formation bonuses drop. We've been assured that the focus will be back to Imperium vs. Chaos, and I can't see them making the faction out the box weak, so...
Latro_ wrote: hmmm DG don't actually sound much different from now when you read it and think about it.
Interesting we now have two instances of teasers where potentially big units of infantry compleley ignore morale. Give me orks some hope, i'm expecting if a boyz unit is over x models they ignore morale
They sound weaker - everyone now gets relentless, they have to cast a psychic power rather than get shrouded at a certain distance, they don't re-roll FNP's of 1.
OTOH there's no instant death, and they are still T5 (although S3 vs T5 is now wound on 5+, not 6+).
Of course, without points, all this is moot. Now formations have gone, the power levels of those armies who really only were a bit OP due to formation bonuses drop. We've been assured that the focus will be back to Imperium vs. Chaos, and I can't see them making the faction out the box weak, so...
Everyone has quasi-relentless. I mean you're relentless for shooting but at a -1 to hit with heavy weapons unless you're bespoked otherwise (Rubrics), and we don't know if Rapid Fire can shoot and charge the same turn.
NivlacSupreme wrote: Is the book in the boxed set the same one that you can buy?
Yes.
And of course, there’s the new Warhammer 40,000 book itself. This 280-page, hardback tome is included in the Dark Imperium box and is also available separately.
Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).
Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.
Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.
For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.
Sorry to be rude about it but that's honestly your own problem. You need new rules every edition, that's never not been the case. Just think of this as a downpayment. Where in previous editions you might spend 400+ on models that become obselete in 6 months, you now have the rules already (so no further Pay To Pay cost until EVERYBODY has to do so, or maybe free PDF update or something) and can plan to buy only what will be useful and you like. Furthermore, no one wants to spend £75 on rules instead of models but that's been part of the game for years now, its just how it works. Its not extra cost, its expected cost. And new units and armies have always had to do this as well. Literally nothing has changed except they are going to give you the core rules (how the different phases and unit types work) as a PDF for free.
For the second paragraph, I can't follow you. You want the rules for free is what you're saying. That's fair. I want free stuff too, but you gotta pay for stuff bro. The models are one product and the game is another. You aren't getting 2 at once, it just doesn't work that way.
It works that way for more or less every other commercially successful table top game. Rules normally come with the products. GW is an anomaly in that they sell game pieces and the rules to use them separately.
And I agree with his second paragraph. It's the same for me. 7th Edition really encouraged multi-faction armies. GW pushed the allies mechanic and made it super easy to build an army out of a little of this and a little of that. "Forge the Narrative" and take what you want. I built a cross-faction army with a core of Tau Empire, some Necrons I converted to all have Tau antennas sticking out of their heads and some IG/Skitarii to represent Tau Auxillaries. I also have a small force of Iron Warriors. In total, it's about 3000 points worth of painted models. If I want to play with them, I'll need to buy more or less all of the books on day 1. I don't have enough of any one army to play a 'full sized game', so buying the rules for the faction I like best isn't an option.
Yes, we all know we have to spend money to buy new rules from time to time, but it sucks to find out you have to buy ALL of the rules on day 1 to field the kind of army GW has been pushing for several years (multi faction). With AoS, you can literally buy any box off the wall and plunk it down on the table. With 40k 8th, you'll need to be more picky and make sure your particular flavor of Xenos is in the Xenos book you bought. Tau/Orks? One book. Tau/Necrons? Two books. Tau/Necrons/an Inquisitor? Three books.
It would be AWESOME if they could announce pricing so that people would have more than a couple of weeks to prep. I have a good job, so the cost isn't important, but I have friends who won't easily absorb a potentially $100-200 hit just to get the rules to play their existing armies. How much are the Index books going to cost? How much is the hardback rule book by itself? Rumors are all well and good, but I want actual GW USD retail pricing. Rumored GBP pricing isn't useful.
Latro_ wrote: hmmm DG don't actually sound much different from now when you read it and think about it.
Interesting we now have two instances of teasers where potentially big units of infantry compleley ignore morale. Give me orks some hope, i'm expecting if a boyz unit is over x models they ignore morale
They sound weaker - everyone now gets relentless, they have to cast a psychic power rather than get shrouded at a certain distance, they don't re-roll FNP's of 1.
OTOH there's no instant death, and they are still T5 (although S3 vs T5 is now wound on 5+, not 6+).
Of course, without points, all this is moot. Now formations have gone, the power levels of those armies who really only were a bit OP due to formation bonuses drop. We've been assured that the focus will be back to Imperium vs. Chaos, and I can't see them making the faction out the box weak, so...
Keep in mind toughness does mean something different than it meant in 7th, as well. Even lascannons will only wound them on 3+ with T5!
dosiere wrote: Can someone explain what those command dice are about? Are they for marking activated units or some such?
You get command points for detachements that let you do stuff, i assume they are to keep track of how many you used and on what.
I asked the same question earlier and no one seems to know. The most of them looks like wound counters or something similar, and the ones at the top could maybe be for objectives?
Some of the icons on the dice match the 'Warhammer 40,000 Counter Set' (namely the run icon), so I guess its just for keeping track of stuff like this unit ran, this unit arrived from reserves (the droppod).
Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).
Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.
Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.
For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.
Sorry to be rude about it but that's honestly your own problem. You need new rules every edition, that's never not been the case. Just think of this as a downpayment. Where in previous editions you might spend 400+ on models that become obselete in 6 months, you now have the rules already (so no further Pay To Pay cost until EVERYBODY has to do so, or maybe free PDF update or something) and can plan to buy only what will be useful and you like. Furthermore, no one wants to spend £75 on rules instead of models but that's been part of the game for years now, its just how it works. Its not extra cost, its expected cost. And new units and armies have always had to do this as well. Literally nothing has changed except they are going to give you the core rules (how the different phases and unit types work) as a PDF for free.
For the second paragraph, I can't follow you. You want the rules for free is what you're saying. That's fair. I want free stuff too, but you gotta pay for stuff bro. The models are one product and the game is another. You aren't getting 2 at once, it just doesn't work that way.
It works that way for more or less every other commercially successful table top game. Rules normally come with the products. GW is an anomaly in that they sell game pieces and the rules to use them separately.
And I agree with his second paragraph. It's the same for me. 7th Edition really encouraged multi-faction armies. GW pushed the allies mechanic and made it super easy to build an army out of a little of this and a little of that. "Forge the Narrative" and take what you want. I built a cross-faction army with a core of Tau Empire, some Necrons I converted to all have Tau antennas sticking out of their heads and some IG/Skitarii to represent Tau Auxillaries. I also have a small force of Iron Warriors. In total, it's about 3000 points worth of painted models. If I want to play with them, I'll need to buy more or less all of the books on day 1. I don't have enough of any one army to play a 'full sized game', so buying the rules for the faction I like best isn't an option.
Yes, we all know we have to spend money to buy new rules from time to time, but it sucks to find out you have to buy ALL of the rules on day 1 to field the kind of army GW has been pushing for several years (multi faction). With AoS, you can literally buy any box off the wall and plunk it down on the table. With 40k 8th, you'll need to be more picky and make sure your particular flavor of Xenos is in the Xenos book you bought. Tau/Orks? One book. Tau/Necrons? Two books. Tau/Necrons/an Inquisitor? Three books.
It would be AWESOME if they could announce pricing so that people would have more than a couple of weeks to prep. I have a good job, so the cost isn't important, but I have friends who won't easily absorb a potentially $100-200 hit just to get the rules to play their existing armies. How much are the Index books going to cost? How much is the hardback rule book by itself? Rumors are all well and good, but I want actual GW USD retail pricing. Rumored GBP pricing isn't useful.
Multi-faction has changed. We know to put multiple factions inside of a single FOC they need to share keywords. We have no word on how multiple detachments work, or if you can mix keywords between detachments (like throwing Guard into a GSC list despite the lack of shared keywords).
Re the "Have to buy all the books negative it works both ways if someone wants to try any flavour of Marines then he can buy one book and try them out. Same with Eldar. Anything Imperial but non Marine - just the one book for that
Compare that to what he or she would have needed before!
Mr Morden wrote: Re the "Have to buy all the books negative it works both ways if someone wants to try any flavour of Marines then he can buy one book and try them out. Same with Eldar. Anything Imperial but non Marine - just the one book for that
Compare that to what he or she would have needed before!
Yep. My 1k Sons only needs 1 book instead of 3 now.
ClockworkZion wrote: In a game with giant space locusts, asexual fungi-xeno hybrids, undead robot zombies, post-human supermen, space nuns, Space India if it was Communist, poncy space elves, BDSM space elves, space elf clowns, and beings from an alternate dimension that is basically hell, flyers being able to turn on a dime should be the last complaint about not making sense.
Either the pilot pulled a quick turning manuever to end up on a reverse flight path, or the flyer is full of future tech that let,s it double in a VTOL kind of fashion similar to a Harrier, allowing it to temporarilly arrest forward momentum to make turns that it shouldn't normally make.
I mean if that bothers you still, why not consider the fact that the all the human flyers basically don't fly as much as they do fall towards the horizon faster than they fall down. ORKS have more understanding of areodynamics than the Imperium.
So yeah, turning around should be the last complaint regarding things making sense, not the first.
Well said sir and let this be a end to the complaints of flyers breaking mid air.
NivlacSupreme wrote: Is the book in the boxed set the same one that you can buy?
Yeah thats annoying - I want the mini rulebook so its actually useful !
You can print the mini-rulebook for free. That book has a large collection of everything else you need outside of the core rules for a game.
You can print a SMALL portion of the rulebook for free. This small portion does not have what you need to play what will most likely be the most commonly played form of 40k... Matched Play. The overwhelming majority (matched play/missions/objectives/stratagems/etc) will only be available in the large format, hardbound book.
Many, many people liked the old, small format rulebooks that had comprehensive rules, but no fluff. I don't relish the idea of having to lug around a 280 page, hardbound book whenever I want to play a game. I'd rather have a smaller, cheaper to produce, rule only version of the FULL rule book in the new starter and have the starter be cheaper. No doubt it's a bargain, but it could definitely be cheaper with cheaper components.
Right. This may be slightly off topic but I'm so excited.
Basically the way me and my friend are splitting it means that he gets the little rule pamphlet (I'm assuming they could spare 1/ pages for the basic rules in the MRB), the Nurgle book, the plague marines and the ruler and I get the Primarii, the MRB and the dice (which will go to my third friend who's tagging along). Then I'm going to get the first Imperium book. And maybe some BA pads.
Basically the way me and my friend are splitting it means that he gets the little rule pamphlet (I'm assuming they could spare 1/ pages for the basic rules in the MRB), the Nurgle book, the plague marines and the ruler and I get the Primarii, the MRB and the dice (which will go to my third friend who's tagging along). Then I'm going to get the first Imperium book. And maybe some BA pads.
There is no little book this time, just a full sized tome.
Basically the way me and my friend are splitting it means that he gets the little rule pamphlet (I'm assuming they could spare 1/ pages for the basic rules in the MRB), the Nurgle book, the plague marines and the ruler and I get the Primarii, the MRB and the dice (which will go to my third friend who's tagging along). Then I'm going to get the first Imperium book. And maybe some BA pads.
There is no little book this time, just a full sized tome.
There's the little GM screen looking thing that says "Core Rules".
Basically the way me and my friend are splitting it means that he gets the little rule pamphlet (I'm assuming they could spare 1/ pages for the basic rules in the MRB), the Nurgle book, the plague marines and the ruler and I get the Primarii, the MRB and the dice (which will go to my third friend who's tagging along). Then I'm going to get the first Imperium book. And maybe some BA pads.
There is no little book this time, just a full sized tome.
There's the little GM screen looking thing that says "Core Rules".
Yeah, that's the same thing you can print for free. It won't have the game type or mission rules.
Basically the way me and my friend are splitting it means that he gets the little rule pamphlet (I'm assuming they could spare 1/ pages for the basic rules in the MRB), the Nurgle book, the plague marines and the ruler and I get the Primarii, the MRB and the dice (which will go to my third friend who's tagging along). Then I'm going to get the first Imperium book. And maybe some BA pads.
There is no little book this time, just a full sized tome.
There's the little GM screen looking thing that says "Core Rules".
Yeah, that's the same thing you can print for free. It won't have the game type or mission rules.
My friends not really the biggest fan of reading, he'll just want to look at the rules.
ClockworkZion wrote: In a game with giant space locusts, asexual fungi-xeno hybrids, undead robot zombies, post-human supermen, space nuns, Space India if it was Communist, poncy space elves, BDSM space elves, space elf clowns, and beings from an alternate dimension that is basically hell, flyers being able to turn on a dime should be the last complaint about not making sense.
Either the pilot pulled a quick turning manuever to end up on a reverse flight path, or the flyer is full of future tech that let,s it double in a VTOL kind of fashion similar to a Harrier, allowing it to temporarilly arrest forward momentum to make turns that it shouldn't normally make.
I mean if that bothers you still, why not consider the fact that the all the human flyers basically don't fly as much as they do fall towards the horizon faster than they fall down. ORKS have more understanding of areodynamics than the Imperium.
So yeah, turning around should be the last complaint regarding things making sense, not the first.
And again people mixing up realism and making sense.
You DO know you can have perfectly unrealistic world that makes sense? It's dime in a dozen archievement among quality writers. But then again GW game designers aren't exactly quality ones so no wonder they can't make rules that even if their life depended on it.
Mr Morden wrote: Is it just me or are the cartoon 40k people very cool
On the book size - Hardback clunker is simply a PITA when you are playing - I had both for 6th ed and the hardback never left the shelf
They are, indeed, pretty damn cool. Reminds me of the old Penny Arcade style for when World of Warcraft was first launched. I would love it if GW did something similar, with the same brand of humor (think, watching a Space Marine rolling dice, having one of them land perfectly cock-eye'd, and shouting at it while pointing menacingly "HERESY!"; dice starts sweating, falls over, lands as a 1, zoom in close up to the Space Marine reaching for his bolt pistol, dice flips to a 6).
However, the fact that those high-Strength weapons usually do more than 1 Damage now, means you may need to take multiple Disgustingly Resilient rolls.
Umm how that is going to work? Assuming you have W2 troops and l3 ascannons shoots and causes 6, 3 and 2 wounds. You can't roll 11 dices and just count wounds off as that would basically be spilling over. Is it 2 wounds per model=6 wounds total and roll those? So basically you never roll for the overkill? (probably this). Nuttiest would be rolling damage one at a time but as if they went that.
Well as I wrote realized it's probably roll damage, remove overkill wounds and roll then. Can't figure other solution that works fast. Interesting they went opposite of armour save logic there though. Better for defender(more even distribution) but more dice rollling=slower game.
Judging from prior images, the Primaris and Death Guard will be on 32mm, with 40mm characters (and a 50mm Lord and maybe 60mm Drone, whilst the sorcerer sorta looks like a 32mm).
ClockworkZion wrote: In a game with giant space locusts, asexual fungi-xeno hybrids, undead robot zombies, post-human supermen, space nuns, Space India if it was Communist, poncy space elves, BDSM space elves, space elf clowns, and beings from an alternate dimension that is basically hell, flyers being able to turn on a dime should be the last complaint about not making sense.
Either the pilot pulled a quick turning manuever to end up on a reverse flight path, or the flyer is full of future tech that let,s it double in a VTOL kind of fashion similar to a Harrier, allowing it to temporarilly arrest forward momentum to make turns that it shouldn't normally make.
I mean if that bothers you still, why not consider the fact that the all the human flyers basically don't fly as much as they do fall towards the horizon faster than they fall down. ORKS have more understanding of areodynamics than the Imperium.
So yeah, turning around should be the last complaint regarding things making sense, not the first.
And again people mixing up realism and making sense.
You DO know you can have perfectly unrealistic world that makes sense? It's dime in a dozen archievement among quality writers. But then again GW game designers aren't exactly quality ones so no wonder they can't make rules that even if their life depended on it.
I have pointed out stuff that doesn't make sense even in the setting. There are very few Imperial aircraft that should be able to fly due to insane drag due to their shapes. And yet they do. So why is it a problem that they can both fly and turn around?
You decided that this was a problem for you and want to make it a problem for everyone else. It's not an issue. Quit trying to break the game that isn't out yet.
lord marcus wrote: I'm still looking for base sizes for the dark imperium box.
How would someone know, the box is going to be released in 3 weeks
Based on the ruler you can see in that picture.
Primaris and Death guard come on 25mm or 28mm bases.
All characters come on 32mm bases.
The drone, Lord of Contagion , Noxious Blightbringer came on a 40mm base.
The Inceptors come on curved 32mm flight bases.
I think you're wrong on this. I'm seeing Primaris Marines on 32mm bases, just like normal Marines. I can't see the bigger dudes being on smaller bases. That puts the Marine characters on 40mm bases and the Contagion Lord/Drone thing on 50mm bases.
Either way, with the ruler in the front and people knowing generally what bases those are in the picture. It wasn't too hard to figure out what they are. The question really is does the base size matter now?
Granted all my old deathguard are on 25mm bases, except my deathguard terminators. Which are on 32s.
Alessander wrote: I'm getting either conflicing pricing or GW is marking up the American prices WAAAAY over the exchange rate.
£95 GBP for the Boxed set, £15 GBP per Index.
but also ticketed as...
$160 USD for the Box Set, $25 USD per Index.
That's a 30% markup!!!!
Can anyone confirm? Is this as bad as Australia's markup?
Not as bad, but still pretty bad. GW has never seemed to understand how exchange rates work.
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Youn wrote: Either way, with the ruler in the front and people knowing generally what bases those are in the picture. It wasn't too hard to figure out what they are. The question really is does the base size matter now?
Granted all my old deathguard are on 25mm bases, except my deathguard terminators. Which are on 32s.
I thought I read somewhere that the matched play rules would have official base sizes for each unit. If true, I can't imagine this would matter outside of tournament settings.
MrDwhitey wrote: Judging from prior images, the Primaris and Death Guard will be on 32mm, with 40mm characters (and a 50mm Lord and maybe 60mm Drone, whilst the sorcerer sorta looks like a 32mm).
Plagueridden humies probably still 25mm.
Yep. The jump guys seem to be on 40mm as well.
32mm looks a tad small for some of the Primaris. I wonder what the basing rules in this edition will be, as they might look better on 40mm bases.
However, the fact that those high-Strength weapons usually do more than 1 Damage now, means you may need to take multiple Disgustingly Resilient rolls.
Umm how that is going to work? Assuming you have W2 troops and l3 ascannons shoots and causes 6, 3 and 2 wounds. You can't roll 11 dices and just count wounds off as that would basically be spilling over. Is it 2 wounds per model=6 wounds total and roll those? So basically you never roll for the overkill? (probably this). Nuttiest would be rolling damage one at a time but as if they went that.
Well as I wrote realized it's probably roll damage, remove overkill wounds and roll then. Can't figure other solution that works fast. Interesting they went opposite of armour save logic there though. Better for defender(more even distribution) but more dice rollling=slower game.
The way I think it works from what we know:
1. Lascannons roll 3 for damage
2. Plague Marine fails its 6+ save
3. Then you roll 3 separate Disgustingly Resilient tests
Either that or that only happens for multiple wound critters.
The way I think it works from what we know:
1. Lascannons roll 3 for damage
2. Plague Marine fails its 6+ save
3. Then you roll 3 separate Disgustingly Resilient tests
Either that or that only happens for multiple wound critters.
It will be:
1. Lascannon rolls To Wound, successfully
2. Plague Marine fails its 6+ save
3. Lascannon rolls D6 for Damage; rolls a 4
4. Plague Marine must make 4 successful Disgustingly Resilient rolls
However, the fact that those high-Strength weapons usually do more than 1 Damage now, means you may need to take multiple Disgustingly Resilient rolls.
Umm how that is going to work? Assuming you have W2 troops and l3 ascannons shoots and causes 6, 3 and 2 wounds. You can't roll 11 dices and just count wounds off as that would basically be spilling over. Is it 2 wounds per model=6 wounds total and roll those? So basically you never roll for the overkill? (probably this). Nuttiest would be rolling damage one at a time but as if they went that.
Well as I wrote realized it's probably roll damage, remove overkill wounds and roll then. Can't figure other solution that works fast. Interesting they went opposite of armour save logic there though. Better for defender(more even distribution) but more dice rollling=slower game.
So my impression would be say a squad shoots 3 lascannons and scores 3 wounds (seems unlikey to me), and causes 6 wounds, 3 wounds and 2 wounds. You would resolve each lascannon separately. So for the 6 wounds choose a model and roll 6 disgustingly resilient rolls. If he fails 2 or more he dies. Then repeat for the 3 wounds and 2 wounds. If they can never score more than 2 wounds against a single model that is a huge nerf to those weapons. You will always have to apply those wounds separately anyway.
Not as bad, but still pretty bad. GW has never seemed to understand how exchange rates work.
Yes they do. Some people here don't realize that exchange rates fluctuate, apparently.
A two year look back has the rate going from a high of 1.6 to a low of 1.2. That's a 25% variability in the amount of revenue collected in their local currency. Add in the current political uncertainties and there you go.
The new FNP (disgustingly resilient) is powerful, but weaker than it used to be because now it allows you to ignore Damage instead of Wounds. So a Save is stronger because a Save ignores the whole Wound and all subsequent damage (d3, d6 etc) whereas the FNP allows you an extra save against each damage caused.
Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).
Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.
Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.
For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.
Sorry to be rude about it but that's honestly your own problem. You need new rules every edition, that's never not been the case. Just think of this as a downpayment. Where in previous editions you might spend 400+ on models that become obselete in 6 months, you now have the rules already (so no further Pay To Pay cost until EVERYBODY has to do so, or maybe free PDF update or something) and can plan to buy only what will be useful and you like. Furthermore, no one wants to spend £75 on rules instead of models but that's been part of the game for years now, its just how it works. Its not extra cost, its expected cost. And new units and armies have always had to do this as well. Literally nothing has changed except they are going to give you the core rules (how the different phases and unit types work) as a PDF for free.
For the second paragraph, I can't follow you. You want the rules for free is what you're saying. That's fair. I want free stuff too, but you gotta pay for stuff bro. The models are one product and the game is another. You aren't getting 2 at once, it just doesn't work that way.
It works that way for more or less every other commercially successful table top game. Rules normally come with the products. GW is an anomaly in that they sell game pieces and the rules to use them separately.
And I agree with his second paragraph. It's the same for me. 7th Edition really encouraged multi-faction armies. GW pushed the allies mechanic and made it super easy to build an army out of a little of this and a little of that. "Forge the Narrative" and take what you want. I built a cross-faction army with a core of Tau Empire, some Necrons I converted to all have Tau antennas sticking out of their heads and some IG/Skitarii to represent Tau Auxillaries. I also have a small force of Iron Warriors. In total, it's about 3000 points worth of painted models. If I want to play with them, I'll need to buy more or less all of the books on day 1. I don't have enough of any one army to play a 'full sized game', so buying the rules for the faction I like best isn't an option.
Yes, we all know we have to spend money to buy new rules from time to time, but it sucks to find out you have to buy ALL of the rules on day 1 to field the kind of army GW has been pushing for several years (multi faction). With AoS, you can literally buy any box off the wall and plunk it down on the table. With 40k 8th, you'll need to be more picky and make sure your particular flavor of Xenos is in the Xenos book you bought. Tau/Orks? One book. Tau/Necrons? Two books. Tau/Necrons/an Inquisitor? Three books.
It would be AWESOME if they could announce pricing so that people would have more than a couple of weeks to prep. I have a good job, so the cost isn't important, but I have friends who won't easily absorb a potentially $100-200 hit just to get the rules to play their existing armies. How much are the Index books going to cost? How much is the hardback rule book by itself? Rumors are all well and good, but I want actual GW USD retail pricing. Rumored GBP pricing isn't useful.
Multi-faction has changed. We know to put multiple factions inside of a single FOC they need to share keywords. We have no word on how multiple detachments work, or if you can mix keywords between detachments (like throwing Guard into a GSC list despite the lack of shared keywords).
So...
you bought multiple factions, with multiple codexes, and are now unhappy that you will still have to buy multiple Codexes? Nothing's changed except the Codexes are cheaper and cover multiple armies.
And again, you painted yourself into a corner. You bought 4 cars and now are mad that you have to pay insurance and MOT on all of them. Of course GW are going to encourage you to buy multiple armies, its more money for them.
As I previously said as well, they are not obligated to give you rules with your models. They are a model company, the game is an extra product. They aren't game pieces, they are models with an optional game available for purchase. Expecting them to sell you two products for the price of one is ludicrous. They only did so for AoS because Fantasy was a black hole of money, they were losing money, and took a major gamble with AoS. They don't need to do so with 40k.
In 7th Ed and precious you needed to buy; Rulebook, Codex for each faction, D6, tape measure and blast templates. In 8th Ed you need to buy Rulebook, Index, D6 and tape measure. The Indexes are also cheaper than Codexes so there's a cut cost if you only play 1 faction. The only thing that's changed between 8th Ed and 3rd-7th Ed is that there are multiple armies in each Index. Maybe for someone with Orks, Eldar, Guard and Space Marines, it blows, but you're not buying any more books than you previously would, and you aren't buying any less. What you are getting is playtested, up to date rules for everything. For cheaper than before.
For example, I currently have Space Marines, Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Tyranids, Orks, Chaos Marines and Assassins (1). Discounting the lone assassin as its not enough to justify rules for 1 model, that's 6 Codexes and 1 rulebook. In 8th, its 3 Indexes and a rulebook, and I'm getting Chaos Daemons, Renegade Knights, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Genestealers and Tau all chucked in for free.
And finally, as I've pointed out MULTIPLE times, you are not required to buy all rules at once. Pick one army you'd like to play with first, and buy the rules and index. In july, pick up another 1 or 2 Indexes as you can afford them. You won'% play all 5 or 6 armies in a month, unless its your sole activity.
Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).
Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.
Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.
For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.
My impression was that similar to AoS the core rules (how to move, shoot etc) would be free, and that unit data sheets with the Power level rating would also be free, but then like battle tomes, the indices would give you expanded rules for each faction, and all the collected data sheets. The big rule book seems like it will have expanded rules and all the match play points costs. But I'm not certain of all this beyond the core rules being free.
Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).
Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.
Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.
For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.
Sorry to be rude about it but that's honestly your own problem. You need new rules every edition, that's never not been the case. Just think of this as a downpayment. Where in previous editions you might spend 400+ on models that become obselete in 6 months, you now have the rules already (so no further Pay To Pay cost until EVERYBODY has to do so, or maybe free PDF update or something) and can plan to buy only what will be useful and you like. Furthermore, no one wants to spend £75 on rules instead of models but that's been part of the game for years now, its just how it works. Its not extra cost, its expected cost. And new units and armies have always had to do this as well. Literally nothing has changed except they are going to give you the core rules (how the different phases and unit types work) as a PDF for free.
For the second paragraph, I can't follow you. You want the rules for free is what you're saying. That's fair. I want free stuff too, but you gotta pay for stuff bro. The models are one product and the game is another. You aren't getting 2 at once, it just doesn't work that way.
Yes you do come across as being rude, and needlessly so. I know it's my "own problem". That's precisely how I framed my comments. I am sad because it seems the set up won't cater for *me*. Everything you say is very true, but it was also true for WHFB. That all changed with AoS and it really opened up my hobby in the best way possible. I don't build armies. I build collections (i.e I buy bits and bobs from everywhere). I also like to play the game too, but don't mind if it's not always a tournament style game.
I was hoping to be able to play Open (not matched) 40k with very little rules barrier. How come? Because that would allow me to buy a box of the new death guard and mix them with my Iron Warriors. It would let me play against a friend or sibling who doesn't game by just grabbing out some of the models in my cabinet and putting them on the table. I didn't expect Matched or Narrative play to be free because it isn't in AoS, but I did hope for Open play to be free, just like it is in AoS.
It just means that I will probably only stick to Genestealer Cult for 40k, my odd units of Skitarii, Deathwatch and Sisters of Battle will stay in my cabinet painted but never seeing the table, and when a new unit comes out I particularly like the look of, I probably won't buy it because I would need to go all in and invest in a new army to play with them (because the books are too expensive for me to justify otherwise).
I bought a single unit of the Kharadron Overlords and will be using them in my Order army (without need to buy any books). I had only hoped that I could enjoy 40k in the same way. It seems I cannot. And for that reason I am a little sad.
Those are some good looking models, cant wait to see the expanded range for both lines
Do the starter box Primaris have removable shoulder pads, or are they moulded to the arm? I have a pile of sculpted pads that I'd rather use instead of transfers.
If the army pamphlets only have rules for the models in the box, could we see more options for the included units once there full Codex's drop?
Looks like the Primaris are going to have quite a different organizational structure to existing chapters. I wonder if they will have any other new ranks and how will the existing specialists fit in?
Personally never been happy with my space marine army and only have two out of 12 squads painted. I may sell on some and crack on with Prime marines I do like those longer guns.
As for prices it must be annoying but it's a relatively small British company with a relatively broad market maybe they want to absorbe the cost of selling abroad, who knows regardless it's hardly unusual business and has nothing to do with currency covertion. A bottle coke costs a lot more in the UK than say Dominica. It's not about exchange rates they price products as they wish the same as every other company.
Warhams-77 wrote: I guess the dice will be like the markers we had in earlier editions, showing wounds and other unit status?
Keeping track of wounds in this edition looks to be a bit of a pain, especially with models that have 10-20+ wounds. Dice (D6-D20) are really not going to cut it because you have to move the dice with the models and dice often get flipped or separated from their model. Will the unit data sheets have boxes for ticking off wounds?
Warhams-77 wrote: I guess the dice will be like the markers we had in earlier editions, showing wounds and other unit status?
Keeping track of wounds in this edition looks to be a bit of a pain, especially with models that have 10-20+ wounds. Dice (D6-D20) are really not going to cut it because you have to move the dice with the models and dice often get flipped or separated from their model. Will the unit data sheets have boxes for ticking off wounds?
T
Offical ones - likely no - Fan made ones - almost certainly yes.
Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).
Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.
Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.
For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.
Sorry to be rude about it but that's honestly your own problem. You need new rules every edition, that's never not been the case. Just think of this as a downpayment. Where in previous editions you might spend 400+ on models that become obselete in 6 months, you now have the rules already (so no further Pay To Pay cost until EVERYBODY has to do so, or maybe free PDF update or something) and can plan to buy only what will be useful and you like. Furthermore, no one wants to spend £75 on rules instead of models but that's been part of the game for years now, its just how it works. Its not extra cost, its expected cost. And new units and armies have always had to do this as well. Literally nothing has changed except they are going to give you the core rules (how the different phases and unit types work) as a PDF for free.
For the second paragraph, I can't follow you. You want the rules for free is what you're saying. That's fair. I want free stuff too, but you gotta pay for stuff bro. The models are one product and the game is another. You aren't getting 2 at once, it just doesn't work that way.
It works that way for more or less every other commercially successful table top game. Rules normally come with the products. GW is an anomaly in that they sell game pieces and the rules to use them separately.
And I agree with his second paragraph. It's the same for me. 7th Edition really encouraged multi-faction armies. GW pushed the allies mechanic and made it super easy to build an army out of a little of this and a little of that. "Forge the Narrative" and take what you want. I built a cross-faction army with a core of Tau Empire, some Necrons I converted to all have Tau antennas sticking out of their heads and some IG/Skitarii to represent Tau Auxillaries. I also have a small force of Iron Warriors. In total, it's about 3000 points worth of painted models. If I want to play with them, I'll need to buy more or less all of the books on day 1. I don't have enough of any one army to play a 'full sized game', so buying the rules for the faction I like best isn't an option.
Yes, we all know we have to spend money to buy new rules from time to time, but it sucks to find out you have to buy ALL of the rules on day 1 to field the kind of army GW has been pushing for several years (multi faction). With AoS, you can literally buy any box off the wall and plunk it down on the table. With 40k 8th, you'll need to be more picky and make sure your particular flavor of Xenos is in the Xenos book you bought. Tau/Orks? One book. Tau/Necrons? Two books. Tau/Necrons/an Inquisitor? Three books.
It would be AWESOME if they could announce pricing so that people would have more than a couple of weeks to prep. I have a good job, so the cost isn't important, but I have friends who won't easily absorb a potentially $100-200 hit just to get the rules to play their existing armies. How much are the Index books going to cost? How much is the hardback rule book by itself? Rumors are all well and good, but I want actual GW USD retail pricing. Rumored GBP pricing isn't useful.
Multi-faction has changed. We know to put multiple factions inside of a single FOC they need to share keywords. We have no word on how multiple detachments work, or if you can mix keywords between detachments (like throwing Guard into a GSC list despite the lack of shared keywords).
So...
you bought multiple factions, with multiple codexes, and are now unhappy that you will still have to buy multiple Codexes? Nothing's changed except the Codexes are cheaper and cover multiple armies.
And again, you painted yourself into a corner. You bought 4 cars and now are mad that you have to pay insurance and MOT on all of them. Of course GW are going to encourage you to buy multiple armies, its more money for them.
As I previously said as well, they are not obligated to give you rules with your models. They are a model company, the game is an extra product. They aren't game pieces, they are models with an optional game available for purchase. Expecting them to sell you two products for the price of one is ludicrous. They only did so for AoS because Fantasy was a black hole of money, they were losing money, and took a major gamble with AoS. They don't need to do so with 40k.
In 7th Ed and precious you needed to buy; Rulebook, Codex for each faction, D6, tape measure and blast templates. In 8th Ed you need to buy Rulebook, Index, D6 and tape measure. The Indexes are also cheaper than Codexes so there's a cut cost if you only play 1 faction. The only thing that's changed between 8th Ed and 3rd-7th Ed is that there are multiple armies in each Index. Maybe for someone with Orks, Eldar, Guard and Space Marines, it blows, but you're not buying any more books than you previously would, and you aren't buying any less. What you are getting is playtested, up to date rules for everything. For cheaper than before.
For example, I currently have Space Marines, Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Tyranids, Orks, Chaos Marines and Assassins (1). Discounting the lone assassin as its not enough to justify rules for 1 model, that's 6 Codexes and 1 rulebook. In 8th, its 3 Indexes and a rulebook, and I'm getting Chaos Daemons, Renegade Knights, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Genestealers and Tau all chucked in for free.
And finally, as I've pointed out MULTIPLE times, you are not required to buy all rules at once. Pick one army you'd like to play with first, and buy the rules and index. In july, pick up another 1 or 2 Indexes as you can afford them. You won'% play all 5 or 6 armies in a month, unless its your sole activity.
I assume you weren't replying to me because this change bothers me not. I was just pointing out that we're missing some information on if the Chex Mix approach to throwing factions into an army really works in the new edition or not.
Will be getting the rulebook here, not bothered about the starter models so giving that a miss, likely to also give the various indexes a miss at least for now - I want to see how quickly they start to be replaced by actual faction books (expecting not all that long).
Also + lots for the idea of making little reference cards for the units that can have wounds ticked off as they occur, possibly even laminated but for any sort of event likely just tick boxes on a printed roster (also serves as a record post game of what survived and what didn't)
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: Personally never been happy with my space marine army and only have two out of 12 squads painted. I may sell on some and crack on with Prime marines I do like those longer guns.
As for prices it must be annoying but it's a relatively small British company with a relatively broad market maybe they want to absorbe the cost of selling abroad, who knows regardless it's hardly unusual business and has nothing to do with currency covertion. A bottle coke costs a lot more in the UK than say Dominica. It's not about exchange rates they price products as they wish the same as every other company.
While those compilation codices are not terribly expensive, it of course would be nice if the rules would be freely available online as well. AoS style of doing the unit rules is nice because it allows them to release new units without having to do an entire new codex for the rules.
Apologies for coming across rude, your initial post came across as griping about the system as a whole, rather than an individual problem. In the former case, that's where I have an issue. Saying the system is broken because it doesn't suit the individual is unpalatable to me and I misspoke.
Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).
Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.
Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.
For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.
Sorry to be rude about it but that's honestly your own problem. You need new rules every edition, that's never not been the case. Just think of this as a downpayment. Where in previous editions you might spend 400+ on models that become obselete in 6 months, you now have the rules already (so no further Pay To Pay cost until EVERYBODY has to do so, or maybe free PDF update or something) and can plan to buy only what will be useful and you like. Furthermore, no one wants to spend £75 on rules instead of models but that's been part of the game for years now, its just how it works. Its not extra cost, its expected cost. And new units and armies have always had to do this as well. Literally nothing has changed except they are going to give you the core rules (how the different phases and unit types work) as a PDF for free.
For the second paragraph, I can't follow you. You want the rules for free is what you're saying. That's fair. I want free stuff too, but you gotta pay for stuff bro. The models are one product and the game is another. You aren't getting 2 at once, it just doesn't work that way.
It works that way for more or less every other commercially successful table top game. Rules normally come with the products. GW is an anomaly in that they sell game pieces and the rules to use them separately.
And I agree with his second paragraph. It's the same for me. 7th Edition really encouraged multi-faction armies. GW pushed the allies mechanic and made it super easy to build an army out of a little of this and a little of that. "Forge the Narrative" and take what you want. I built a cross-faction army with a core of Tau Empire, some Necrons I converted to all have Tau antennas sticking out of their heads and some IG/Skitarii to represent Tau Auxillaries. I also have a small force of Iron Warriors. In total, it's about 3000 points worth of painted models. If I want to play with them, I'll need to buy more or less all of the books on day 1. I don't have enough of any one army to play a 'full sized game', so buying the rules for the faction I like best isn't an option.
Yes, we all know we have to spend money to buy new rules from time to time, but it sucks to find out you have to buy ALL of the rules on day 1 to field the kind of army GW has been pushing for several years (multi faction). With AoS, you can literally buy any box off the wall and plunk it down on the table. With 40k 8th, you'll need to be more picky and make sure your particular flavor of Xenos is in the Xenos book you bought. Tau/Orks? One book. Tau/Necrons? Two books. Tau/Necrons/an Inquisitor? Three books.
It would be AWESOME if they could announce pricing so that people would have more than a couple of weeks to prep. I have a good job, so the cost isn't important, but I have friends who won't easily absorb a potentially $100-200 hit just to get the rules to play their existing armies. How much are the Index books going to cost? How much is the hardback rule book by itself? Rumors are all well and good, but I want actual GW USD retail pricing. Rumored GBP pricing isn't useful.
Multi-faction has changed. We know to put multiple factions inside of a single FOC they need to share keywords. We have no word on how multiple detachments work, or if you can mix keywords between detachments (like throwing Guard into a GSC list despite the lack of shared keywords).
So...
you bought multiple factions, with multiple codexes, and are now unhappy that you will still have to buy multiple Codexes? Nothing's changed except the Codexes are cheaper and cover multiple armies.
And again, you painted yourself into a corner. You bought 4 cars and now are mad that you have to pay insurance and MOT on all of them. Of course GW are going to encourage you to buy multiple armies, its more money for them.
As I previously said as well, they are not obligated to give you rules with your models. They are a model company, the game is an extra product. They aren't game pieces, they are models with an optional game available for purchase. Expecting them to sell you two products for the price of one is ludicrous. They only did so for AoS because Fantasy was a black hole of money, they were losing money, and took a major gamble with AoS. They don't need to do so with 40k.
In 7th Ed and precious you needed to buy; Rulebook, Codex for each faction, D6, tape measure and blast templates. In 8th Ed you need to buy Rulebook, Index, D6 and tape measure. The Indexes are also cheaper than Codexes so there's a cut cost if you only play 1 faction. The only thing that's changed between 8th Ed and 3rd-7th Ed is that there are multiple armies in each Index. Maybe for someone with Orks, Eldar, Guard and Space Marines, it blows, but you're not buying any more books than you previously would, and you aren't buying any less. What you are getting is playtested, up to date rules for everything. For cheaper than before.
For example, I currently have Space Marines, Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Tyranids, Orks, Chaos Marines and Assassins (1). Discounting the lone assassin as its not enough to justify rules for 1 model, that's 6 Codexes and 1 rulebook. In 8th, its 3 Indexes and a rulebook, and I'm getting Chaos Daemons, Renegade Knights, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Genestealers and Tau all chucked in for free.
And finally, as I've pointed out MULTIPLE times, you are not required to buy all rules at once. Pick one army you'd like to play with first, and buy the rules and index. In july, pick up another 1 or 2 Indexes as you can afford them. You won'% play all 5 or 6 armies in a month, unless its your sole activity.
I assume you weren't replying to me because this change bothers me not. I was just pointing out that we're missing some information on if the Chex Mix approach to throwing factions into an army really works in the new edition or not.
Sorry, I wasn't replying to you specifically, I was just quoting the whole discussion.
Apologies if I came across as rude to anyone on this chat. Seeing some of the comments really grinds my gears. Long days at work and quitting cigarettes at the same time doesn't help either
GoatboyBeta wrote: Those are some good looking models, cant wait to see the expanded range for both lines
Do the starter box Primaris have removable shoulder pads, or are they moulded to the arm? I have a pile of sculpted pads that I'd rather use instead of transfers.
The FB page confirmed them to be moulded to the arm. These are push-fit models that have very few individual parts.
Here's a sad thought.
with yearly balancing and point updates are we expected to rebuy indexes for every army every year for matched play?
If that's the case and Power level datasheets are free online I see a lot of the community buying 1 index and just using Power level as the main form of play and only buying an index once there is major changes to an army book.
gungo wrote: Here's a sad thought.
with yearly balancing and point updates are we expected to rebuy indexes for every army every year for matched play?
Nope.
They've kept the points in their own section (likely back page if AoS is a guide), precisely so they can be tweaked and changed without requiring a new book.
gungo wrote: Here's a sad thought.
with yearly balancing and point updates are we expected to rebuy indexes for every army every year for matched play?
More likely a Generals Handbook updating all factions points for £15 a year I would guess
Alessander wrote: I'm getting either conflicing pricing or GW is marking up the American prices WAAAAY over the exchange rate.
£95 GBP for the Boxed set, £15 GBP per Index.
but also ticketed as...
$160 USD for the Box Set, $25 USD per Index.
That's a 30% markup!!!!
Can anyone confirm? Is this as bad as Australia's markup?
Not as bad, but still pretty bad. GW has never seemed to understand how exchange rates work.
Spoiler:
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Youn wrote: Either way, with the ruler in the front and people knowing generally what bases those are in the picture. It wasn't too hard to figure out what they are. The question really is does the base size matter now?
Granted all my old deathguard are on 25mm bases, except my deathguard terminators. Which are on 32s.
I thought I read somewhere that the matched play rules would have official base sizes for each unit. If true, I can't imagine this would matter outside of tournament settings.
No, people try to do a straight currency conversion and forget about import taxes and other fees tagged on to the incoming items (& each country is different). It's people that never seemed to understand how e̶x̶c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶e̶ ̶r̶a̶t̶e̶s̶ importing fees & taxes work.
@deadshot it's fine! I will still have fun putting together my Genestealer Cult and can't wait to play a game of the new 40k as the rules sound incredible
Bottle wrote: I was hoping to be able to play Open (not matched) 40k with very little rules barrier. How come? Because that would allow me to buy a box of the new death guard and mix them with my Iron Warriors. It would let me play against a friend or sibling who doesn't game by just grabbing out some of the models in my cabinet and putting them on the table. I didn't expect Matched or Narrative play to be free because it isn't in AoS, but I did hope for Open play to be free, just like it is in AoS.
So far 8th seems to me to be sticking quite close to the AoS pattern. As long as the unit stats are available to download along side the core rules there is no need to buy anything other than models. The big book seems to be more like a combo of parts of the AoSGHB and the campaign books.
What are we ballparking the individual Primaris units and characters at? I'm just trying to get a sense of how the price on the starter looks if you're only using half the figs.
In CAD, I'm thinking the Primaris boxes have to be at least $60 for 5 if the 10 man Custodes box is $140. Characters would be $30 each, minimum. So four units and four characters (thinking 2 lieutenants to a box maybe), would be in the $300-$350 range. Straight converting form the $160 USD figure above the starter box would be $215 CAD. Not even accouting fort the rule book there either.
That sounds like a solid deal if you're ok with the mono-pose figs (which I am because they're awesome). I think I'm in, and haven't in my life purchased a starter 40k box (since 2nd Ed)
godardc wrote: Can someone explain to me what exactly are the free rules and what more will I get by paying the book, please ?
The free rules are just the core rules for how the game is played. Money buys you the different game types, the missions, and the expansions (Cities of Death, Stronghold Assault, ect).
Oh, and the army rules (unless GW drops free PDFs of them with their power levels at launch). Matched points will likely cost money though.
Kriswall wrote: I thought I read somewhere that the matched play rules would have official base sizes for each unit. If true, I can't imagine this would matter outside of tournament settings.
That was Faeith crap even they quickly withdrew.
GW won't care about base size and knows that would be "bit" controversial move. That might be something Kirby&co might have tried to invalidate existing ones and force to buy new ones(hopefully entirely new models if old ones would break in an attempt to separate them from base) but the new GW should know not to piss of players that badly.
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The way I think it works from what we know:
1. Lascannons roll 3 for damage
2. Plague Marine fails its 6+ save
3. Then you roll 3 separate Disgustingly Resilient tests
Either that or that only happens for multiple wound critters.
Well 2 and 1 are actually reverse. But what I was wondering is if it rolls 4-6. But probably those are discarded ie all 4+ counts as 3. Only way it can work without having to roll every lascannon fully separately after armour saves are done for...
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DCannon4Life wrote: It will be:
1. Lascannon rolls To Wound, successfully
2. Plague Marine fails its 6+ save
3. Lascannon rolls D6 for Damage; rolls a 4
4. Plague Marine must make 4 successful Disgustingly Resilient rolls
This is the problem I was talking about. If this is how it goes if unit gets wounded by 4 lascannons that's 4 lascannons you need to roll one by one.
d6. 4 wounds. 4 DR rolls.
d6. 2 wounds. 2 DR rolls
d6. 6 wounds. 6 DR rolls
d6. 1 wound. 1 DR roll
See? That would be very slow rolling! With speed and simplicy being buzzwords I doubt that is how it goes.
rollawaythestone wrote: The new FNP (disgustingly resilient) is powerful, but weaker than it used to be because now it allows you to ignore Damage instead of Wounds. So a Save is stronger because a Save ignores the whole Wound and all subsequent damage (d3, d6 etc) whereas the FNP allows you an extra save against each damage caused.
Well average wise it's same if you roll first DR and then d6 for damage or first d6 and then DR. Difference is bell curve. Less extreme results, more following average so this actually helps generally as you want steady results. However slower than first save, then damage.
so, to move the topic away from how free the rules will be, one thing I noticed in the release pic of starter set was that the Primaris Assault marines come in a base unit size of 3 and it appears that the standard bearer is in a 3 man unit also. This shows me that the primaris marines are going to have rules designed with base units of 3, or at least the more elite versions of primaris marines will. I've always thought one way to make marines feel more like the fluff is to allow supper MSUs to be more prevalent.
The starter set is much more expensive than Dark Vengeance, with near as I can tell very slightly less plastic in it. This bump will be because of the huge hardback tome they decided to include.
So in other words, less people buying more than one kit to build up their army, because it costs more and they don't need several core rulebooks.
Powerfisting wrote: so, to move the topic away from how free the rules will be, one thing I noticed in the release pic of starter set was that the Primaris Assault marines come in a base unit size of 3 and it appears that the standard bearer is in a 3 man unit also. This shows me that the primaris marines are going to have rules designed with base units of 3, or at least the more elite versions of primaris marines will. I've always thought one way to make marines feel more like the fluff is to allow supper MSUs to be more prevalent.
Well, right now it goes even further than that. Then don't even let them make the unit bigger! I'm guessing those assault marines will be 3W, too.
The starter set is much more expensive than Dark Vengeance, with near as I can tell very slightly less plastic in it. This bump will be because of the huge hardback tome they decided to include.
So in other words, less people buying more than one kit to build up their army, because it costs more and they don't need several core rulebooks.
They'll probably release a scaled down one after the initial sales drop..
BUT..
HOW MUCH IS IT???? Srsly, I think I'm looking a little too frantically.. I am not seeing the price anywhere..
Powerfisting wrote: so, to move the topic away from how free the rules will be, one thing I noticed in the release pic of starter set was that the Primaris Assault marines come in a base unit size of 3 and it appears that the standard bearer is in a 3 man unit also. This shows me that the primaris marines are going to have rules designed with base units of 3, or at least the more elite versions of primaris marines will. I've always thought one way to make marines feel more like the fluff is to allow supper MSUs to be more prevalent.
Minimal size of 5 for normal squads and minimal size of 3 for more elite units. Just like Stormcast Eternals.
TheDraconicLord wrote: There was someone some posts back worried about the Sororitas. Here, found this in the FB comments:
So I really had to squint, but I didn't see any reference to Sororitas in the "Imperial Not-Marines" book contents. Did we get anymore confirmation that the Sororitas will be in one of the two Imperial Armies books? I didn't see anything using Dakka's search function...
The starter set is much more expensive than Dark Vengeance, with near as I can tell very slightly less plastic in it. This bump will be because of the huge hardback tome they decided to include.
So in other words, less people buying more than one kit to build up their army, because it costs more and they don't need several core rulebooks.
They'll probably release a scaled down one after the initial sales drop..
BUT..
HOW MUCH IS IT???? Srsly, I think I'm looking a little too frantically.. I am not seeing the price anywhere..
To phrase it in a way independent of currency or whether you're buying with a store discount, it's about one and a half dark vengeances.
TheDraconicLord wrote: There was someone some posts back worried about the Sororitas. Here, found this in the FB comments:
So I really had to squint, but I didn't see any reference to Sororitas in the "Imperial Not-Marines" book contents. Did we get anymore confirmation that the Sororitas will be in one of the two Imperial Armies books? I didn't see anything using Dakka's search function...
Valete,
JohnS
Agents of the Imperium...as their current codex is titled.
rollawaythestone wrote: The new FNP (disgustingly resilient) is powerful, but weaker than it used to be because now it allows you to ignore Damage instead of Wounds. So a Save is stronger because a Save ignores the whole Wound and all subsequent damage (d3, d6 etc) whereas the FNP allows you an extra save against each damage caused.
Well average wise it's same if you roll first DR and then d6 for damage or first d6 and then DR. Difference is bell curve. Less extreme results, more following average so this actually helps generally as you want steady results. However slower than first save, then damage.
I think it will be:
1) Roll hit and wound
2) Roll saves for each wound
3) Roll damage and make a pool of wounds
4) Roll DR for each wound of the pool
5) Remove models. Cannot remove more models than hits received.
This is the faster way and gives more value to multi damage weapons against resilient targets. Yes, it has a bit of wounds spilling, but it still saves the "Use powerfull weapons on big guys and high ROF stuff on small guys" concept.
Do we know where we get the point costs (not the power level) yet?
1. in the rulebook
2. in the index books
3. in a General's Handbook publication later this year
4. in the app
Can someone provide a source please. I have followed the teaser campaign closeley and have double-checked the summary in this thread, but could'nt find the answer. It seems this hasn't beent answered explicitly yet (or I can't use the internet).
The models look great, but yeah the scale is all over the place now. I'm also bummed the set is so expensive, I was hoping for 130 USD at the most. The hardback book is nice for fluff and looking at. But in a practical sense it might overwhelm a new player.
I also can't wait to see the multi part kits. Hoping for a 2 pack of primus lieutenants with unique weapon options. The auto bolter is the coolest weapon of the lot IMO. And sort of making them like mini characters as opposed to the more generic intercessor squads would be interesting. Would also be cool if they could buff one nearby primus unit, so a chain of command thing is going on.
edit: I also don't like that the terminator has a powerpack, part of what made the normal terminators cool was that they were built in...giving them a menacing profile.
wait.. does that mean a Spacehulk reissue in a few years?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Didn't the Primaris announcement mention that the shoulderpads, heads, and backpacks would be the same size while the rest of the components were being re-scaled? ..or was that someone's comments here?
EDIT: Found it Are the kits compatible with existing Space Marine kits? Good Question. There are certainly elements of the existing Space Marines kits that will be cross-compatible, while the new armour mark means that some parts won’t mix as easily. Shoulder pads and helmets are the same scale, and will still work, whereas the legs, torso and arms are different, and not quite as interchangeable. In terms of the Primaris sets themselves, you’ll have loads of fun kit-bashing them.
Warhams-77 wrote: Size comparison - Source: Steppingbetweengames blog
Wow! That primaris is substantially larger than a standard Marine. I approve.
Bleh, A little too large for my taste actually. At that size they will start to interact with doorways and barriers much differently. I actually prefer the calth guy to be honest. Interesting to note that the deathguard marine is the same scale as the current marines, just bulkier.
I guess we know now why Guilliman was so fething huge BTW. I am betting he looks more normal for a primarch next to the Numarines.
Powerfisting wrote: so, to move the topic away from how free the rules will be, one thing I noticed in the release pic of starter set was that the Primaris Assault marines come in a base unit size of 3 and it appears that the standard bearer is in a 3 man unit also. This shows me that the primaris marines are going to have rules designed with base units of 3, or at least the more elite versions of primaris marines will. I've always thought one way to make marines feel more like the fluff is to allow supper MSUs to be more prevalent.
Well, right now it goes even further than that. Then don't even let them make the unit bigger! I'm guessing those assault marines will be 3W, too.
I'm guessing that primaris marines are intended to be very new-kid friendly. They don't have sub-optimal choices like taking more than the minimum squad size or picking the wrong special weapon. You just get a decent all-rounder unit right out of the box and don't have to worry about understanding the rules before building them or anything.
tneva82 wrote: This is the problem I was talking about. If this is how it goes if unit gets wounded by 4 lascannons that's 4 lascannons you need to roll one by one.
d6. 4 wounds. 4 DR rolls.
d6. 2 wounds. 2 DR rolls
d6. 6 wounds. 6 DR rolls
d6. 1 wound. 1 DR roll
See? That would be very slow rolling! With speed and simplicy being buzzwords I doubt that is how it goes.
I suppose, if you have a unit rolling 12+ LasCannon shots, it could slow the game down. I'm not familiar with any units that do that. And we're all already used to rolling results separately; when shooting LasCannons at a unit of War Walkers, for example, we roll the results one at a time to see if we get 'Explodes' results.
This will very much be like that: "Is he dead yet? No? Here's the next LasCannon's Damage roll." "Is he dead NOW? NO?! Good grief, here's the NEXT LasCannon's Damage roll...."
I love the new and better proportionated marines. They will look lovely marching as giant gods of war alongside my Tempestus Scions and other Inquisition troopers.
And, personally I prefer the look of Lord Kranon, the chaos lord of the Dark Vengeance set, bot oh my good the Death Guard Lord in Terminator Armour. Thats a big fella. Quite impresive.
Vovin wrote: Do we know where we get the point costs (not the power level) yet?
1. in the rulebook
2. in the index books
3. in a General's Handbook publication later this year
4. in the app
Can someone provide a source please. I have followed the teaser campaign closeley and have double-checked the summary in this thread, but could'nt find the answer. It seems this hasn't beent answered explicitly yet (or I can't use the internet).
The Nids aren't complaining, thighs are the best eating anyway. I'm waiting for the Seven Secret Herbs and Spices Armour (with the extra crispy 5+ Inv), then I'd be set.
Powerfisting wrote: so, to move the topic away from how free the rules will be, one thing I noticed in the release pic of starter set was that the Primaris Assault marines come in a base unit size of 3 and it appears that the standard bearer is in a 3 man unit also. This shows me that the primaris marines are going to have rules designed with base units of 3, or at least the more elite versions of primaris marines will. I've always thought one way to make marines feel more like the fluff is to allow supper MSUs to be more prevalent.
Minimal size of 5 for normal squads and minimal size of 3 for more elite units. Just like Stormcast Eternals.
Or Crisis Suits which share a lot of the same statline as the new Primaris....
Vovin wrote: Do we know where we get the point costs (not the power level) yet?
1. in the rulebook
2. in the index books
3. in a General's Handbook publication later this year
4. in the app
Can someone provide a source please. I have followed the teaser campaign closeley and have double-checked the summary in this thread, but could'nt find the answer. It seems this hasn't beent answered explicitly yet (or I can't use the internet).
In the index books. You'll have to wait for someone to link the source or just trust me.
rollawaythestone wrote: The new FNP (disgustingly resilient) is powerful, but weaker than it used to be because now it allows you to ignore Damage instead of Wounds. So a Save is stronger because a Save ignores the whole Wound and all subsequent damage (d3, d6 etc) whereas the FNP allows you an extra save against each damage caused.
Well average wise it's same if you roll first DR and then d6 for damage or first d6 and then DR. Difference is bell curve. Less extreme results, more following average so this actually helps generally as you want steady results. However slower than first save, then damage.
I think it will be:
1) Roll hit and wound
2) Roll saves for each wound
3) Roll damage and make a pool of wounds
4) Roll DR for each wound of the pool
5) Remove models. Cannot remove more models than hits received.
This is the faster way and gives more value to multi damage weapons against resilient targets. Yes, it has a bit of wounds spilling, but it still saves the "Use powerfull weapons on big guys and high ROF stuff on small guys" concept.
I'm extremely curious how this issue ends up being resolved because it has huge implications for units of multi wound models. For true no damage spill over to occur each damage roll will have to be worked out one at a time. As others have pointed out this seems cumbersome in an edition that is all about stream lining (though this is the method I would prefer).
If it is indeed a more streamlined version I could see the order of operations you posted being plausible. If that is the case though, I would like to see the maximum number of casualties be the number of failed armor saves. If it's equivalent to hits then that's two steps of the damage resolution process that would be subsequently reversed. ie 5 hits, 4 wounds, 3 failed saves but if using multiple damage weapons you can suddenly kill 5 models again. That seems like a lot of damage spill over. Where as using the failed saves as a cap the most you could kill was 3. I'm
DCannon4Life wrote: I suppose, if you have a unit rolling 12+ LasCannon shots, it could slow the game down. I'm not familiar with any units that do that. And we're all already used to rolling results separately; when shooting LasCannons at a unit of War Walkers, for example, we roll the results one at a time to see if we get 'Explodes' results.
This will very much be like that: "Is he dead yet? No? Here's the next LasCannon's Damage roll." "Is he dead NOW? NO?! Good grief, here's the NEXT LasCannon's Damage roll...."
10 support marines from legions list says hi. Also predator annihilator has 4 lascannons so multiple wounds incoming, land raider likewise and spartan from FW will have whopping 8 lascannon shots.
And apart from who rolled vehicle damage separately that's still not same as that was 1 dice one at a time. Here it woudl be dice followed by multiple dice followed by same process set.
Don't see them going that way. Especially as there's perfectly working way to ensure no separate rolling. After rolling for damage trim excess damage to amount of wounds model has.
Powerfisting wrote: so, to move the topic away from how free the rules will be, one thing I noticed in the release pic of starter set was that the Primaris Assault marines come in a base unit size of 3 and it appears that the standard bearer is in a 3 man unit also. This shows me that the primaris marines are going to have rules designed with base units of 3, or at least the more elite versions of primaris marines will. I've always thought one way to make marines feel more like the fluff is to allow supper MSUs to be more prevalent.
Minimal size of 5 for normal squads and minimal size of 3 for more elite units. Just like Stormcast Eternals.
Or Crisis Suits which share a lot of the same statline as the new Primaris....
Not sure if serious? XV8's hit worse on both stats, move faster, have more wounds and can take between 3-9...
NuMarines are basically terminators in worse armor. Not sure how well they will work since they aren't as curable (durable, left it because it's hilarious ) as a terminator and obviously more expensive then a marine. I am hoping they don't pull the old habit of making them WAY too cheap. I am a bit concerned seeing how a regular marine is now 13ppm. I'd guess to justify lower cost for the new guy.
DCannon4Life wrote: I suppose, if you have a unit rolling 12+ LasCannon shots, it could slow the game down. I'm not familiar with any units that do that. And we're all already used to rolling results separately; when shooting LasCannons at a unit of War Walkers, for example, we roll the results one at a time to see if we get 'Explodes' results.
This will very much be like that: "Is he dead yet? No? Here's the next LasCannon's Damage roll." "Is he dead NOW? NO?! Good grief, here's the NEXT LasCannon's Damage roll...."
10 support marines from legions list says hi. Also predator annihilator has 4 lascannons so multiple wounds incoming, land raider likewise and spartan from FW will have whopping 8 lascannon shots.
And apart from who rolled vehicle damage separately that's still not same as that was 1 dice one at a time. Here it woudl be dice followed by multiple dice followed by same process set.
Don't see them going that way. Especially as there's perfectly working way to ensure no separate rolling. After rolling for damage trim excess damage to amount of wounds model has.
DCannon4Life wrote: I suppose, if you have a unit rolling 12+ LasCannon shots, it could slow the game down. I'm not familiar with any units that do that. And we're all already used to rolling results separately; when shooting LasCannons at a unit of War Walkers, for example, we roll the results one at a time to see if we get 'Explodes' results.
This will very much be like that: "Is he dead yet? No? Here's the next LasCannon's Damage roll." "Is he dead NOW? NO?! Good grief, here's the NEXT LasCannon's Damage roll...."
10 support marines from legions list says hi. Also predator annihilator has 4 lascannons so multiple wounds incoming, land raider likewise and spartan from FW will have whopping 8 lascannon shots.
And apart from who rolled vehicle damage separately that's still not same as that was 1 dice one at a time. Here it woudl be dice followed by multiple dice followed by same process set.
Don't see them going that way. Especially as there's perfectly working way to ensure no separate rolling. After rolling for damage trim excess damage to amount of wounds model has.
Pred Annihilator's TL Lascannon is now 2x Lascannon?????? That seems.. are you sure?
If it is indeed a more streamlined version I could see the order of operations you posted being plausible. If that is the case though, I would like to see the maximum number of casualties be the number of failed armor saves. If it's equivalent to hits then that's two steps of the damage resolution process that would be subsequently reversed. ie 5 hits, 4 wounds, 3 failed saves but if using multiple damage weapons you can suddenly kill 5 models again. That seems like a lot of damage spill over. Where as using the failed saves as a cap the most you could kill was 3. I'm
Or against W3 models with lascannon doing 2, 6 and 5 wounds you turn that into 2, 3 and 3 wounds=8 wounds to be saved.
But whoa, that captain is bigger than I though. I assumed that this was some sort of an artificer armour rather than a terminator equivalent, but now I'm not so sure any more... I hope this is not the design for the primaris termies, it is not terminatory enough for my liking...
Crimson wrote: I love the size of the pimaris, they're perfect!
But whoa, that captain is bigger than I though. I assumed that this was some sort of an artificer armour rather than a terminator equivalent, but now I'm not so sure any more... I hope this is not the design for the primaris termies, it is not terminatory enough for my liking...
The captain is huge. Absolutely huge.
Here's hoping I get a version of one with the Jetpack.
Currently the movement rules for tanks were FAQ'ed to prevent people from deploying sideways on their 12 inches line, pivoting turn 1 and moving up 12 inches, effectively gaining 0.5 to 1 inche depending on the model size. Basically no parts of your vehicules could finish at more than 12 inches from it's original spot, no matter the facing / pivot.
Those new rules seem to indicate that if you move 12 inches forward, stop and then pivot slightly to get a different angle on your target for LOS purposes you would end up moving the back of your hull more than 12 inches and as such would be illegal.
This seems like it would slow down the current process of measure a spot 6 or 12 inches away from your tank, picking it up and putting it down however you want as long as it's not outside of that original mark. Now if you don't keep the exact same positioning, parts of your hull are bound to have moved more than 12 inches.
I would have liked the grenade dude DNA to be stronger in the other DGs instead of big horns and maws, but those cultists. The grins. The weapons! The gas masks!! The everything!!! And the "lab coat" making the doctors-turned-Nurgle astronauts easier to do.
The set ia damn expensive, though, so no doubling up at first.i hope that the other kits drop aoon after.
Currently the movement rules for tanks were FAQ'ed to prevent people from deploying sideways on their 12 inches line, pivoting turn 1 and moving up 12 inches, effectively gaining 0.5 to 1 inche depending on the model size. Basically no parts of your vehicules could finish at more than 12 inches from it's original spot, no matter the facing / pivot.
Those new rules seem to indicate that if you move 12 inches forward, stop and then pivot slightly to get a different angle on your target for LOS purposes you would end up moving the back of your hull more than 12 inches and as such would be illegal.
This seems like it would slow down the current process of measure a spot 6 or 12 inches away from your tank, picking it up and putting it down however you want as long as it's not outside of that original mark. Now if you don't keep the exact same positioning, parts of your hull are bound to have moved more than 12 inches.
Oh I forgot to mention. I just seen the answer that existing marines can be upgraded into nu-marines. So I'm calming down about them now. I just hope they are balanced is all.
Currently the movement rules for tanks were FAQ'ed to prevent people from deploying sideways on their 12 inches line, pivoting turn 1 and moving up 12 inches, effectively gaining 0.5 to 1 inche depending on the model size. Basically no parts of your vehicules could finish at more than 12 inches from it's original spot, no matter the facing / pivot.
Those new rules seem to indicate that if you move 12 inches forward, stop and then pivot slightly to get a different angle on your target for LOS purposes you would end up moving the back of your hull more than 12 inches and as such would be illegal.
This seems like it would slow down the current process of measure a spot 6 or 12 inches away from your tank, picking it up and putting it down however you want as long as it's not outside of that original mark. Now if you don't keep the exact same positioning, parts of your hull are bound to have moved more than 12 inches.
Am I understanding this correctly?
This is mostly just to combat all the vehicles deploying sideways on the deployment line and pivoting in the first turn to gain a couple inches of movement. As long as you're not doing something like that I can't imagine people will be too anal, especially with armor facings being tossed out.
That's also how the rule works in 7th after the FAQs, and I've not heard too much trouble with it.
Wow.. that's crazy! Looks like I need to clear out some time to read as the changes seem far more sweeping than I first thought.. 