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Codex: Grey Knights touched me in the bad place... 
   
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sudojoe wrote:
When you say "Because thats how they actually function" are you referring to the fact that Grey Knights like to kill Sisters of battle and smear their blood on their armour, or?


I'm actually painting a squad of my GK with half covered in blood with smears of it on their chests/helmets. dripping gore from the waist down essentially. If I had some spare sisters bits I'd toss them on the bases.


That's awesome. Post pics when you're done.

   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

Milisim wrote:Is it just because the book is so damn strong? Is winning and beating the crap out of other armies so important that one chooses them?

I just do not see the appeal to knowing with ALMOST certainty that I will win the next game regardless of what army or style is fielded against me.


Why did you choose the GK's?



I have not picked up Grey knights, but was tempted because:

1. Awesome models. The Terminator and PA armor are just bad ass!
2. Fluff. What's not to like about the elite of the elite?
3. Small investment. As an elite army, you can keep the model count low, which means you can make a 2k point army for much cheaper with Grey Knights than with regular space marines.

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Decrepit Dakkanaut




I started a GK army *literally* as they came out (book night before, ordered entire army day of release) because I had always wanted the antithesis of my first love -chaos marines

I also wanted, as my chaos marines are mostly Bezerkers held in rhinos, an army that was the opposite of that - no vehicles.

I also liked the look of the Dreadknght, and have a love of large gribbly beasts, and liked the fuff and idea of mordrak

So i built it - 2x5man termies, mordrak and 5 ghost knights (made up to look....different to the normal termies), 2 jumpy dreadknights with flaming guns and a vindicare

Very fluffy, not very effective but quite a lot of fun as I am normally in your face turn 1 - and that stillt akes people aback.

Yes, you can hit the easy button with GKs - as much shooting as possible - biut thats a reaction to the dice game that is 40k. The more shots you have the more you will run to averages and the more predictable the results.
   
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nosferatu1001 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
blaktoof wrote:Anyone that says they are playing for fluff reasons and uses dread knights or psyrifleman spam is a liar.
"Anyone who disagrees with me is a liar." See how silly that looks?
Yep, it's blaktoof. reasoned argument isnt their strong suit.
Only the walrus and the vampire are being ignorant jerks. He's referring to the crypt beneath the Temple of the Emperor and the Grey Knights' unique perception of memory. You see, every Grey Knights' memory is erased during indoctrination. Probably the only thing a Grey Knight is afraid of is being forgotten; thus, every Grey Knights' name is written down on Titan when they die. If they live well enough, the name that is written down will be remembered. However, if they are entombed in a Dreadnought, their name is not recorded. They sleep for hundreds of years more, and all the while their name is absent from prayers and sagas.

Grey Knights hate becoming Dreadnoughts. The numbers they are fielded in now would terrify a Grandmaster.
Jaon wrote:
DarkHound wrote:The old book was closer to a good representation, though I'd join the Sisters and GK as auxiliaries to the Imperium's forces at large, because that's how they actually function.
When you say "Because thats how they actually function" are you referring to the fact that Grey Knights like to kill Sisters of battle and smear their blood on their armour, or?
That's awesome, I didn't think of that. I could make a whole different thread about the misogynistic fetish-pleasure that Ward probably derives from that story and its implications. No, I was merely referring to the fact that both Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights do not function as independent elements. They are always used in conjunction with the Planetary Defense Forces or directed by the Inquisition.

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Decrepit Dakkanaut




DarkHound wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
blaktoof wrote:Anyone that says they are playing for fluff reasons and uses dread knights or psyrifleman spam is a liar.
"Anyone who disagrees with me is a liar." See how silly that looks?
Yep, it's blaktoof. reasoned argument isnt their strong suit.
Only the walrus and the vampire are being ignorant jerks. He's referring to the crypt beneath the Temple of the Emperor and the Grey Knights' unique perception of memory. You see, every Grey Knights' memory is erased during indoctrination. Probably the only thing a Grey Knight is afraid of is being forgotten; thus, every Grey Knights' name is written down on Titan when they die. If they live well enough, the name that is written down will be remembered. However, if they are entombed in a Dreadnought, their name is not recorded. They sleep for hundreds of years more, and all the while their name is absent from prayers and sagas.


Apparently you havent learnt how to comprehend a sentence as yet. Try reading ALL of a sentence, not just fly off into a nerd rage.

DarkHound wrote:Grey Knights hate becoming Dreadnoughts. The numbers they are fielded in now would terrify a Grandmaster.
Jaon wrote:
DarkHound wrote:The old book was closer to a good representation, though I'd join the Sisters and GK as auxiliaries to the Imperium's forces at large, because that's how they actually function.
When you say "Because thats how they actually function" are you referring to the fact that Grey Knights [/u]like[/u] to kill Sisters of battle and smear their blood on their armour, or?
That's awesome, I didn't think of that. I could make a whole different thread about the misogynistic fetish-pleasure that Ward probably derives from that story and its implications. No, I was merely referring to the fact that both Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights do not function as independent elements. They are always used in conjunction with the Planetary Defense Forces or directed by the Inquisition.


Missed pointless crass hyperbole before. THat bolded bit? Crap, does not exist.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/30 20:53:54


 
   
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The reason i think most people are drawn to the GKs is because they like the idea of being bad-ass warriors who run around smiting daemons.

The fact they are op SEALS the deal

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/30 20:57:09


 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

DarkHound wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
blaktoof wrote:Anyone that says they are playing for fluff reasons and uses dread knights or psyrifleman spam is a liar.
"Anyone who disagrees with me is a liar." See how silly that looks?
Yep, it's blaktoof. reasoned argument isnt their strong suit.
Only the walrus and the vampire are being ignorant jerks. He's referring to the crypt beneath the Temple of the Emperor and the Grey Knights' unique perception of memory. You see, every Grey Knights' memory is erased during indoctrination. Probably the only thing a Grey Knight is afraid of is being forgotten; thus, every Grey Knights' name is written down on Titan when they die. If they live well enough, the name that is written down will be remembered. However, if they are entombed in a Dreadnought, their name is not recorded. They sleep for hundreds of years more, and all the while their name is absent from prayers and sagas.

Grey Knights hate becoming Dreadnoughts. The numbers they are fielded in now would terrify a Grandmaster.


Suppose I made a Grey Knight army with two Dreadknights, a Techmarine and three Venerable Dreadnoughts and explained it as part of the Chapter arsenal being attacked by Daemons in disguise? Oh look, a fluff explanation!

I'm not being ignorant, I know perfectly well how much Grey Knights hate being Dreadnoughts. They still do it though, so the scenario above could still happen. The part I was focusing on was the part about lists including Dreadknights not being valid as fluff lists: THAT is ignorant, and the reason I made my posts to start with.

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Couldn't have 3 dreads and a techy. All elites.

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I'll concede to the walrus. The vampire, on the other hand, continues to lash out without a proper argument.

In my defense, Walrus, the Dreadknight is an abomination. The point of the Grey Knights, what made them different than Space Marines, is that their leaders could go toe-to-toe with Greater Daemons. Plus, what's the point of the Dreadnought if not to be an armored war beast? So the Dreadknight exists to fill the role that's already sufficiently covered. Then there's the matter of the model. Good Lord that thing is awful.

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DarkHound wrote:I'll concede to the walrus. The vampire, on the other hand, continues to lash out without a proper argument.

In my defense, Walrus, the Dreadknight is an abomination. The point of the Grey Knights, what made them different than Space Marines, is that their leaders could go toe-to-toe with Greater Daemons. Plus, what's the point of the Dreadnought if not to be an armored war beast? So the Dreadknight exists to fill the role that's already sufficiently covered. Then there's the matter of the model. Good Lord that thing is awful.


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Deadshot wrote:Couldn't have 3 dreads and a techy. All elites.


Normal dreads are heavy, ven dreads are elite
DarkHound wrote:I'll concede to the walrus. The vampire, on the other hand, continues to lash out without a proper argument.


Wrong. You nerd raged at AW and myself and you hadnt even read all the quote from blaktoof

DarkHound wrote:In my defense, Walrus, the Dreadknight is an abomination. The point of the Grey Knights, what made them different than Space Marines, is that their leaders could go toe-to-toe with Greater Daemons.


Um, guess you just answered your own question there. bolded

DarkHound wrote:Plus, what's the point of the Dreadnought if not to be an armored war beast?

The "point" is to house battle brothers that are almost dead, and allow them to carry on fighting. DK involves fuly functioning battle brothers. You're not good at this nerd rage stuff, are you?

DarkHound wrote:So the Dreadknight exists to fill the role that's already sufficiently covered. Then there's the matter of the model. Good Lord that thing is awful.


Nope i like the model. Your opinion on it is no more valid than anyone elses.

Which is all your post comes down to, validity wise - your opinion of the model.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/31 10:10:25


 
   
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DarkHound wrote:In my defense, Walrus, the Dreadknight is an abomination. The point of the Grey Knights, what made them different than Space Marines, is that their leaders could go toe-to-toe with Greater Daemons. Plus, what's the point of the Dreadnought if not to be an armored war beast? So the Dreadknight exists to fill the role that's already sufficiently covered. Then there's the matter of the model. Good Lord that thing is awful.


And this is why I made my "anything other than my opinion is wrong!" point to start with. While I agree that the "single warrior against the Evils" is more epic, the Dreadknight makes way more sense.

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Longtime Dakkanaut




agreed on the dreadknight. when i first saw that POS i facepalmed.

they should have just left it as a robot, the exposed pilot ruins it for me.

and as someone already mentioned, the name "dreadknight" smells like poop too.
   
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Nemesis Doom Fist.
Nemesis Dreadknight.
Blood Fist.
Blood Talon.
Bloodshard Rounds.
Blood Strike Missiles.

All of these came from one person.

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H.B.M.C. wrote:Nemesis Doom Fist.
Nemesis Dreadknight.
Blood Fist.
Blood Talon.
Bloodshard Rounds.
Blood Strike Missiles.

All of these came from one person.


To be fair, there's at least as much Wolfy McWolferson in the SW codex.

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New Orleans, LA

H.B.M.C. wrote:Nemesis Doom Fist.
Nemesis Dreadknight.
Blood Fist.
Blood Talon.
Bloodshard Rounds.
Blood Strike Missiles.

All of these came from one person.


I agree that these are silly. However, they pale to the magesty that was bestowed upon us by Rick Priestley in Warhammer 40k Rogue Trader (1987):

Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau


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AlmightyWalrus wrote:
DarkHound wrote:In my defense, Walrus, the Dreadknight is an abomination. The point of the Grey Knights, what made them different than Space Marines, is that their leaders could go toe-to-toe with Greater Daemons. Plus, what's the point of the Dreadnought if not to be an armored war beast? So the Dreadknight exists to fill the role that's already sufficiently covered. Then there's the matter of the model. Good Lord that thing is awful.
And this is why I made my "anything other than my opinion is wrong!" point to start with. While I agree that the "single warrior against the Evils" is more epic, the Dreadknight makes way more sense.
The Dreadknight never makes more sense because the pilot is always completely exposed. If it had been realized differently, I wouldn't have a problem with it. The pilot was exposed in the exo-suit from Aliens because it was a construction vehicle, not a combat mech.

I can make up some stuff about how a pair of Slaaneshi Daemon Princes tricked a cult of Obliterators and half the Deathguard into serving them, but regardless of how possible it is to justify, it doesn't make it correct. The Grey Knights have 6 Dreadnoughts to wake up, but they aren't going to do so for every Tom, Dick, and Harry that want to scrap. Nor are they going to bring "the most advanced machine in the Imperium" and show it off against the Tau. Lord knows they don't need anymore inspiration. There's nothing wrong with trying to break the game, but in this case doing so breaks the fluff.

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At the very least, the Dreadknight should be put at a disadvantage fighting smaller enemies. I mean, it's one thing that it can move fast enough to block the giant weapons of the Greater Daemons, but a swarm of daemonettes would easily be able to get one to climb up while the others distract it and rip the pilot to pieces.

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If they can get past the armour and forcefield, especially with their powets drained by the pilot.

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nosferatu1001 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
blaktoof wrote:
Anyone that says they are playing for fluff reasons and uses dread knights or psyrifleman spam is a liar.


"Anyone who disagrees with me is a liar." See how silly that looks?


Yep, it's blaktoof. reasoned argument isnt their strong suit.


I'm going to set aside the fact your post is just a personal attack and lacks any other content.

The dreadknight fluff is that it was created to battle powerful daemons by being a giant robotic baby Bjorn of the emperors will. If you think about it there is no place for this model as conceptualy it is just the equivalent of dreadnaught with special rules. GKs already have dreads but do not like to become dreads for fluff reasons already stTes by DH.

I commented that dreadnaught and dreadknight spam was unfluffy. I stand by that it is. How many GK stories since Slaves to the Darkness where the first ordo malleus list appeares have talked about GK brothers sending their 6 dreadnaughts and 2 squads of five GKs to stop a demonic incursion have you read and thought "gee guys my nerdon is so hard for GKs must start an army!". Hmm. Zero?

Okay then. How many times have you read stories about some bad mofo GK brother captain fighting back chaos with their nemesis weaponry and psychic holy fortitude to stop a daemonic apocalypse when no man or machine could? Oh, every GK fluff story since RT era, ok then.

For 23/24 of the years that GKs have existed their fluff is just them as battle brothers, not 10 of them plus their baby Bjorn brothers and dreadnaught friends.

Yes I know they are competitive, but spamming them as I said, is not fluffy. People who are running 6 dreadnaughts or 3 dreadnaughts and 3 dreadknights are not playing GKs for the fluff, which is what I said. They are playing to win, which is valid way to play but to claim otherwise is kind of a lie to say they are doing it because they really lo e the back-story concept of the GKs.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/31 17:28:53


 
   
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Yes well another point of contention for the fluff part is that in most fluff they did not use rhinos, razorbacks, etc.

While in fun games at the shop I dont spam stuff but tend to have a little of everything from the book or all termies.. something I would not take to a tournament. While I like them for their fluff winning 500$ plus in prizes appeals to me too when that means I can expand my stuff. lol

The enemy of my enemy is a bastard so lets kill him too.


 
   
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Anvildude wrote:Most other Marine armies don't have Assault weapons- they're stuck with Rapid Fire- and they don't get psycannons with their 4 shots on Relentless Terminators or 3 shots in small squads. If a basic Marine army wants that volume of fire, they need to take guns that aren't as effective against armour, and pay for larger units, or else get or allow the enemy to get within charge range. Knights can just sit back and shoot.


No, they just get terminators with assault cannons, the psycannon just has +1 str added to it and I believe it also costs more than an assault cannon (don't quote me there, I don't have the codecies in front of me)
   
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That +1 Strength can make a big difference, really. Thing is, though, regular Marines don't get assault cannons in their basic tac squads.

Now, I suppose I'm probably nowhere near the best to listen to on this. I'm mostly just airing my gripes- but I've played against Grey Knights, and I've played against regular Marines, and the Knights are much more powerful, point for point, than the 'nillas.

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I would think that the main gripe is once within 24 in some of the mid range forces dont like trading shots cause purifiers, dreads etc can put out reasonably high volume of str 4-8 shots but then dont want to assault to take the shooting out because traditonal taac lists dont always have an answer for the nfw. Many of the players that say they dont have a particular issue with gk play them, have found a way around this, or play an army that can out range them.

The enemy of my enemy is a bastard so lets kill him too.


 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




Blaktoof - so its "unfluffy" due simply to your own opinion on what counts as fluffy?

Yawn

Also -you see people spam Dknights? Really? Theyre hideously uncompetitive.
   
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I have a Dreadknight because I actually do like the model, but I don't run it in any of my lists because I can do so much more with it's points value. I do have a Dreadnaught, a Psyfleman Dread in fact, but this was done in response to playing against 2 seperate DE players in one tournament and not having the firepower to drop their Raiders before they could get into position.
   
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blaktoof wrote:

The dreadknight fluff is that it was created to battle powerful daemons by being a giant robotic baby Bjorn of the emperors will. If you think about it there is no place for this model as conceptualy it is just the equivalent of dreadnaught with special rules. GKs already have dreads but do not like to become dreads for fluff reasons already stTes by DH.


They want the power of a Dreadnought but don't want to be Dreadnoughts, so they get Dreadknights. Not to be rude, but that didn't require much coherent thought to figure out.

Let's use another example: Someone plays with three Dreads and three Knights, runs an AdMech/henchman list and just calls them Skiitari vehicles and Knights. There, got you a not-far-fetched fluffy explanation. You could also have the army be part of the Grey Knight prescense around Cadia, which almost certainly includes Dreadnoughts and Dreadknights. There's another not-far-fetched explanation that also has the benefit of keeps the models counting as what they are.

I agree that it's unlikely to be the case, but flat out saying it is impossible seems a bit silly TBH.

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Because it is one of the newest codexes. Wait until another round of books comes out, and see how many of your GK players switch to a newer book...
   
 
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