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I'm not clear on this... Paladins are characters now, so that means they can all 'look out sir' each other? Did that just make them even MORE survivable? You don't have to differentiate their wargear now either, huh?

junk wrote:I'm not clear on this... Paladins are characters now, so that means they can all 'look out sir' each other? Did that just make them even MORE survivable? You don't have to differentiate their wargear now either, huh?

Yes. But since LOS is only on a 4+ for them, it's not a guaranteed thing.

Its more of a way of keeping a guy alive that you mistakenly had in front.


Heavy Psycannons got better in that there arn't any partials now. So less lame.

Its more of a way of keeping a guy alive that you mistakenly had in front.

No it really is 50% wound allocation shenanigans. Half of everything you take can be spread around like before, without having to buy diversified gear.

And with ICs, it's on a 2+.

And best of all, remember, if they're all making the same save, you allocate the wounds after they're saved, making it much more abusive than it was in 5th.

4+ LOS means a lot in CC when it come to warding staffs taking all the hits.

Deep strike restrictions can be circumvented several ways.

Adding 4 solodins to the list would do the trick. It would be pretty easy to hide them, and they would allow 4 other units to go into reserve.

Coteaz and henchmen also comes to mind. Coteaz + 48 bolter armed henchmen=340 points.

On the downside the problem of how to deal with airpower still remains, and things are only going to get worse when the eldar, tau, and csm fliers come out..

Psycannons on PAGK also benefit in overwatch as you can fire it with the heavy 4 rending profile, also if its fired by a Paladin on a to hit roll of a 6 they get to allocate the wound. It's also worth noting the Precision strike works well in assault for Paladins.

Also Purifiers got a buff VIA overwatch. Enemy unit declares a charge, you overwatch, they make their move, before attacks are made cleansing flame, THEN blows are struck!

What I don't really get is the new magic thingy.

You can choose the codex ones, the set each hero own, or the rulebook ones?

For example, Stern have a 3pack, level 2 mastery. I can choose 2 more spells rolling, or I have to discard them all, and choose 2 rolling.

DakotaBlue wrote:What I don't really get is the new magic thingy.

You can choose the codex ones, the set each hero own, or the rulebook ones?

For example, Stern have a 3pack, level 2 mastery. I can choose 2 more spells rolling, or I have to discard them all, and choose 2 rolling.

No. Only Librarians can select non-codex powers (via the generic powers in the rulebook), and how they do so is clearly laid out in the FAQ.

Stormravens got a buff to their mindstrike missiles if you guys didn't notice, since it forces a Perils.

And now, there are NO saves allowed against perils.

Also the amount of shots a stormraven can put out... with psybolts, etc. Wow.

I assume the hurricane bolters can shoot rapid-fire at targets 24" away since they are mounted to a vehicle right? If so, hurricane bolters definitely got a buff.

Just keep in mind that you can only fire four weapons (five with machine spirit) if you zoom, and that you are limited to two mind strikes a turn.

If you choose to hover, you're a fast skimmer and so can only fire two weapons (one plus machine spirit) and snap the rest. You can't snap fire mindstrikes as it is a blast weapon.

So whats everyone's thoughts for anti-air? Just fire a bucket load of stormbolter/psycannon shots and hope we get lucky? Are Stormravens necessary now? I hope not, I hate that flying brick.

Kaldor wrote:So whats everyone's thoughts for anti-air? Just fire a bucket load of stormbolter/psycannon shots and hope we get lucky? Are Stormravens necessary now? I hope not, I hate that flying brick.

Twin-linked Pysflemen/Pysbacks will help. Also, unless I am wrong you can move and Snapfire Pyscannons on Heavy Mode. That alone should help.

Kaldor wrote:So whats everyone's thoughts for anti-air? Just fire a bucket load of stormbolter/psycannon shots and hope we get lucky? Are Stormravens necessary now? I hope not, I hate that flying brick.

I'm thinking massed snap-fire Psycannons in heavy-mode. Also, I'm not sure whether or not the gun emplacement in an Aegis Defense Line can be destroyed, as the line is not a building. Though I'll admit I haven't gone over the fortification rules very closely yet. So that could be another solid option if you can hold on to the position.

Hmm. Might be time to invest in a psyfleman dread.

In the bunch of games I've tried with GK so far, really making me feel air power is going to be hot stuff in 6th. Airhammer maybe?

Face it, vs stuff like necron air force, the statistics just aren't with us for massed fire vs their survivability and return fires. The aegis defense line I'm actually quite interested in and will test in the future. Good ideas so far but definately will need more testing.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/458655.page

Face it, vs stuff like necron air force, the statistics just aren't with us for massed fire vs their survivability and return fires.

Just keep in mind the Necron Air Force is the only army in the game that can feasibly field an extreme amount of flyers. To combat that, and as a Necron (air force) player myself I think you can combat it, you'll also need to go as extreme as you can. If you're afraid of an extreme tournament army but refuse to use an extreme tournament army yourself then you can only blame yourself.

For example (1850p):

HQ
Inquisitor Torquemada Coteaz: 100p
ELITES
5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Razorback, Psybolts, TL HB: 190p
5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, NDH, Razorback, Psybolts, TL HB: 195p
5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Razorback, Psybolts, TL HB: 190p
TROOPS
3 Servitors, 3 Multi-Meltas, Chimera, Heavy Bolter: 85p
3 Warriors, Bolters, Razorback, Psybolts, TL HB, Searchlight: 66p
3 Warriors, Bolters, Razorback, Psybolts, TL HB, Searchlight: 66p
3 Warriors, Bolters, Razorback, Psybolts, TL HB, Searchlight: 66p
3 Warriors, Bolters, Razorback, Psybolts, TL HB, Searchlight: 66p
3 Warriors, Bolters, Razorback, Psybolts, TL HB, Searchlight: 66p
FAST ATTACK
Stormraven Gunship, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolts: 255p
HEAVY SUPPORT
Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2 TL Autocannons: 135p
Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2 TL Autocannons: 135p
Dreadnought, Psybolts, 2 TL Autocannons: 135p
FORTIFICATION
Aegis Defence Line, Quad Gun: 100p

I think this list fights against the Necron Air Force quite well. Nearly everything is twin-linked and it has a virtual ton of everything. You focus on the Doom Scythes first, and this army can easily take down all three in one shooting phase. The Stormraven will take down one, the three Dreadnoughts will bring down one, and all the rest of the stuff will bring down atleast one flyer. The Quad Gun can destroy a flyer already during the enemy movement phase. I'm being overly simplistic here but I'm stressing the fact that if you start counting how many penetrating and glancing hits this army will put on AV11 even if it hits with 6's only, you'll notice that it's not impossible at all to even table the Necron Air Force. Also don't forget the fact that vehicles get cover saves even if only 25% of their frontage is in cover, and the Aegis Defence Line gives 4+ cover.

Finally, don't forget the fact that when you're fighting against flyers, you can always move at full speed every turn since snap firing isn't a disadvantage because you already hit with 6's.

Xca|iber wrote:

Kaldor wrote:So whats everyone's thoughts for anti-air? Just fire a bucket load of stormbolter/psycannon shots and hope we get lucky? Are Stormravens necessary now? I hope not, I hate that flying brick.

I'm thinking massed snap-fire Psycannons in heavy-mode. Also, I'm not sure whether or not the gun emplacement in an Aegis Defense Line can be destroyed, as the line is not a building. Though I'll admit I haven't gone over the fortification rules very closely yet. So that could be another solid option if you can hold on to the position.

gun emplacements are a T7 model with 2 wounds and a 3+ armor, 5+ cover for hiding behind it.

Put it behind an Aegis defense line and it has a 4+ cover too.

Fafnir wrote:

Sethorly wrote:
2) single psykers might be useful if they can take the new powers.

They can't.

Is this because they don't have the "Psyker" Special Rule?

Fafnir wrote:

Sethorly wrote:

Could someone with the new rulebook please tell me whether eviscerators are better? How have they changed if at all?

Lost 2D6 armour penetration.

No they haven't, they have Armourbane, which is 2d6 armour pen. (I have the rulebook now!)

Would anyone agree with me that henchmen acolytes with meltabombs are now fantastic against vehicles, much more so than multimeltas? These could end up being the standard contents of our anti-flyer psybacks.

Final musing: if DKs and Paladins are ICs, can we join them with other units eg. a henchman squad led by a paladin? The mind boggles.

Sethorly wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

Sethorly wrote:
2) single psykers might be useful if they can take the new powers.

They can't.

Is this because they don't have the "Psyker" Special Rule?

No. The FAQ says who can use the new rulebook powers.

Final musing: if DKs and Paladins are ICs, can we join them with other units eg. a henchman squad led by a paladin? The mind boggles.

They are Characters but NOT Independent Characters. They can't join other units. Just like the Assassins.

Yeah, what they can do is challange other characters.

I used that to good effect yesterday at a tournament. My Dreadknight assassinated Imotek and a Librarian quite handily.


Charge a DK with Doomfists into a squad, challange the Sergeant(who probably has a PF, if its just a sword or a maul leave him alone)

If he accepts, you beat him down before he swings and you don't get hit by anybody else. And the threat of the hidden PF is gone.

If he refuses, he can't hurt you and you can pwn everyone else.


This can be especially nasty if you cast Quicksilver on the DK. Just beware any characters with 4+ invulns(or better)

What kind of setup are you using on your DK?

Are they better now in 6th? I hadn't had a lot of luck using them in 5th; just would get shot down too fast.

Incinerator, Teliporter, and 2 Doomfists.

With Nightfighting be relativly common(and being a Cover save now) its useful to be able to ignore it. Its also why that one divination psychic power is so awsome(Perfect Timing)


Also, Divination is just an awsome lore period. Cast Forwarning on any GK unit with Swords = 3+ invuln in CC.

I think its still worthwhile to take a Librarian with our own powers though.


Below 2K i run a Stormraven and a Librarian with Divination with some Terminator troops along with a Dreadknight. Above 2k I'll add Crowe and some Purifiers for my second FoC. And as many Aegis defense lines as possable.

Nice little tidbit about the Vindicare. He gets to use his Deadshot special rule when firing gun emplacements


And one thing I noticed in the back of the book. they changed the Assassins unit type to character. Does that mean we can now duplicate assassins?

daedalus-templarius wrote:Are they better now in 6th? I hadn't had a lot of luck using them in 5th; just would get shot down too fast.

Supposedly a typo has made their doom fists S10 striking at regular Initiative 4, so that's a big boost. Also power swords don't really do anything against them in CC. And nightfighting helps them get into CC more often like Grey Temples mentioned.

Grey Templar wrote:
With Nightfighting be relativly common(and being a Cover save now) its useful to be able to ignore it. Its also why that one divination psychic power is so awsome(Perfect Timing)


Also, Divination is just an awsome lore period. Cast Forwarning on any GK unit with Swords = 3+ invuln in CC.

I think its still worthwhile to take a Librarian with our own powers though.


Below 2K i run a Stormraven and a Librarian with Divination with some Terminator troops along with a Dreadknight. Above 2k I'll add Crowe and some Purifiers for my second FoC. And as many Aegis defense lines as possable.

Nice little tidbit about the Vindicare. He gets to use his Deadshot special rule when firing gun emplacements


And one thing I noticed in the back of the book. they changed the Assassins unit type to character. Does that mean we can now duplicate assassins?

Agreed on the Divination discipline. I'm going to try running a Mastery 3 Librarian with 3 of the powers. The Primaris one might be pretty good for helping Psycannons take down a pesky flyer (twin linking 8 BS1 shots and all that). And the 4+ invul power is comparable to Shrouding now that cover is mostly 5+, and it works in CC and doesn't require the unit to be "in cover".

I think the cap on Aegis lines is 2, one for each detachment .

You should ask in YMDC about the assassin thing. If I can now take 3 Vindicares, I'll be pretty happy.

Challenges with Dreadknights, amazing...

Also, paladins will always send forward the warding stave to answer and deliver challenges.

All this bs about GK getting softer in 6e is patently ridiculous, they are meaner than ever. Overwatching psycannons, Vindicares in emplacements, even more resistant paladins, Psybolting Hurricane ravens zooming around being invincible...

Unfortunately assassins have unique, which means only one per army, even if double force org. They're essentially named dudes. So no 6 vindicare armies.

Apologies if someone mentioned these already.

Dread Knights doomfists are Str 10 now. They weren't before, because DCCW said "a dreadnought using a DCCW doubles it's strength". But that part is gone now, so....

There's no escorting models off the board, now, so tank shocking is much less bothersome for Draigo-Wing and the like.

DCA can take one axe (or Maul) and a regular power sword, and can choose to use either one, still getting +1 attack. Personally all my crusaders are getting axes, I don't have much use for I3.

What the... axes on DCA and Crusaders!? How did I miss that?

Joe Mama wrote:What the... axes on DCA and Crusaders!? How did I miss that?

I know! I'm a little ashamed my brain works like this......first tournament people will hate me.

Another thing, this lets you snipe better. Say you have several DCAs, one btb with a powerfist (for ease, let's pretend it's not a sergeant for some reason) Have everyone else use axes, that one guy uses the regular powersword. Great, he has to get rid of his power fist first.

You are evil man. Deliciously evil. LOL. Of course, using mostly axes against an enemy means swinging last, so I am not sure sniping in that scenario will be too useful. But axes will help hurt terminators at least...


Don't have my codex here. Is that where it says DCA and Crusaders can have power axes?