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People ALWAYS get jealous of larger forums because they're not "exclusive" anymore.

In mass quantities, you will ALWAYS have some people who make constant simple topics.

You can't really fight human nature. I don't really see a problem with it: it's just a by-product of being a large site.

As someone who has ran a few communities over the years, I've seen tons of people "break off" by saying "it's just not the same, man!"

By that they mean "I'm not the top dog anymore, man! There's all these...community members here now".

It happens in cycles - usually every few thousand users or so.

You know how you "save it"? By posting.

Some people have said that they "avoid entire forums" - how about sprucing them up and making cool topics of your own? Or kindly posting - "can you elaborate on this topic?" Think about it - those "simple" users are contributing to Dakka's post count, hit count, and advertisement purse - the "tried and true" members are ignoring all those facets. Coach new users. Tell them to introduce themselves before posting. The mods can't do everything - and in my experience, most of them work for free!

Damn, 13 pages my brain hurts!

Can I suggest that any additional thread scoring/weighting system that is introduced should be measured in Teef.

Very in keeping with Dakka me thinks.

On its introduction I would expect to be awarded ONE MILL-ION teef in recompence of this great idea, thus ensuring that even my most inane ramblings are read by all!

Zid wrote:I can see why some people don't like Dash; he wins. A lot. Hes a competative gamer thats good at it. He takes what some people see as "crap" and makes it win. But he makes winning fun as does he make losing. I've read every one of his reps and they're great reads and I learn a lot about what I face be it orcs or dark eldar. Hes a good player and he beats people who hate to lose. Hes like the cowboy in a western movie; moseys into the bar, shoots a few bad dudes, steals a damsel, and away to the next town. I can see why people would get upset at this - especially if they're the "local" champ.

That's a little simplistic. People can dislike other people without it being anything to do with whether or not they win a lot...

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:But Background and Discussions are in serious need of a scrub. I pulled these off of the FRONT PAGE of the Background section:

And how many of them did you hit the Mod Alert button for?

FWIW,and IMO most of those were fine where they were. The '40K vs 'x'' threads could arguably be considered appropriate for either background (because you're comparing elements of the 40K background to other settings) or 40K discussions. I tend to steer them towards Background, to leave Discussions more for general discussion about the actual game that doesn't fit into Tactics or YMDC.

Not to mention all the DYI Chapters/craftworlds/regiments that belong in the Fiction section but are camped in Background

As has been pointed out, Fiction is for actual fiction. Army backgrounds are more appropriate for Background, particularly if people want feedback on how well they 'fit' the fluff.

Background is meant for just that: Background about 40k.

Which covers an awful lot of ground, and doesn't just include the 'official' fluff.

*Quietly sits back down*

fullheadofhair wrote:

Cryonicleech wrote:Hmmm...

Seems like Dakka is full of elitism nowadays. Much of the old-vets croon for the old days,

Not this one. The old Dakka was a shark pit and the moderation sucked and it was full of people sharpening their epeen; which on reflection seems a strange metaphor. Todays MOD's are pretty good (except one, just got to get that cheap shot in) and I think overall they do a good job considering it is unpaid. Alph particularly when he joins in a an antagnostic thread still maintains a good hold on the bile and the new crop of MOD's over the last year have done well IMHO.

Put this vet in the same camp. At its nadir, Dakka was almost like a private club forum rather than a public forum. The membership drove away valuable contributors and basically laughed about it. And even from a tactics standpoint -- although it had some very skilled players -- it had become a bit of an echo chamber. As Redbeard sagely pointed out in the other thread, this path ultimately ends up with one person on a blog spouting their views with no "idiots," "retards," or "newbs" to say they're wrong.

My vote is for some kind of reputation or like button. I think that addresses the issue without monkeying with what Yak has tried to create here.

gorgon wrote:this path ultimately ends up with one person on a blog spouting their views with no "idiots," "retards," or "newbs" to say they're wrong.

Instead, we have a bunch of "idiots" "retards" and "newbs" posting advice, and competent players unwilling to step in and call them on the garbage that they're spewing because its easy to be offended at someone disagreeing with you, leading to flamewars and banning. Reecius has explained this in significant depth, and its been discussed ad naseum.

The problem is NOT someone espousing views that get disagreed with. The problem is that readers have to wade through the "garbage" to find something worth reading, and there is no quality control. These topics are all being addressed now I think; if we get a "40k watercooler" forum, and all of the "Who's primarch is best in the bedroom?" threads get tossed in there...that would be a great start towards filtering out the noise from the rest of the stuff being posted.

I thought there was already a "like" button - it's marked "Subscribe"

Perhaps a better measurement of views or posts would be subscriptions?

Some sort of system for reputation would be useful - but I can appreciate the development headaches and timelines on that Some ideas from http://stackoverflow.com/faq might be good (admittedly a programmer Q&A site - but it does try to address similar issues of reputation - which is important when determining the validity of answers - much like 40K Tactics )

I think showing "posts" is perhaps promoting the wrong idea though...

Dashofpepper wrote:

gorgon wrote:this path ultimately ends up with one person on a blog spouting their views with no "idiots," "retards," or "newbs" to say they're wrong.

Instead, we have a bunch of "idiots" "retards" and "newbs" posting advice, and competent players unwilling to step in and call them on the garbage that they're spewing because its easy to be offended at someone disagreeing with you, leading to flamewars and banning. Reecius has explained this in significant depth, and its been discussed ad naseum.

The problem is NOT someone espousing views that get disagreed with. The problem is that readers have to wade through the "garbage" to find something worth reading, and there is no quality control. These topics are all being addressed now I think; if we get a "40k watercooler" forum, and all of the "Who's primarch is best in the bedroom?" threads get tossed in there...that would be a great start towards filtering out the noise from the rest of the stuff being posted.

Explain how that relates to the tactics forum DoP? The "who's primarch has the best tan" types threads only make it into tactics by accident and are re-routed with ease if they are reported. Are you espousing only certain posters be allowed to comment in the tactics forums?

Frazzled wrote: Are you espousing only certain posters be allowed to comment in the tactics forums?

Absolutely not; what I'm espousing has been explained and repeated time and again here, repeated elsewhere....I shouldn't need to do it again (and for your benefit again!).

Dashofpepper wrote:

Frazzled wrote: Are you espousing only certain posters be allowed to comment in the tactics forums?

Absolutely not; what I'm espousing has been explained and repeated time and again here, repeated elsewhere....I shouldn't need to do it again (and for your benefit again!).

That goes against what you just said above though. thats not related to tactics threads.

You're saying you're getting crap replies o tactics threads no? How are you going to filter that?

I would think that a crap reply is not necessarily an opinion that is different from yours, even if you're a successful competitor. Rather, some elements of a good reply include: being more than one sentence, responding meaningfully to the ongoing discussion, evincing that the poster has read the entire thread before posting, etc. Like anything, it would be case-by-case.

As an example, I would cite Sanctjud's replies in the Tactics threads.

How would you mod that ManchuQueo? Absent doing it 24/7 of course.

This is a very complex issue with many points of view, each with(theoretically) equal weight. I'm not certain that what's been proposed so far by any of the proponents is necessarily workable. That being said, I think some form of solution possibly does exist, I'm currently mulling it over, and seeing what I can think up to help streamline and improve the tactics/army list section. I know the mods are having their own discussion on what should/shouldn't be done, and hopefully, something productive should come out of this. Possibly not what anyone was expecting, but something nonetheless.

I'm noting a lot of people getting all worked up here though. I recommend everyone leans back, has a sip of something relaxing, and treats this like the forum for toy soldiers that it is.

Frazzled wrote:How would you mod that ManchuQueo? Absent doing it 24/7 of course.

No doubt it would take a very strong presence to begin with. There would need to be a lot of mod encouragement of some behaviors over others. But mods are not the most important link in the chain precisely because they cannot be everywhere at once. The key is developing culture among "core users" who will feel (1) a personal stake in keeping their internet playground quality (as proved by the contributions of posters like Hulksmash, Malfred, Polonius, DoP, etc, etc, etc) and (2) empowered/supported to foster quality among other, "non-core" users. Basically, it involves rebuilding a better version of what the vets are waxing nostalgic about: a Dakka that is quality, tough-minded, but not a place for ego-burnishing.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:Is Dakka really so bad? Im a relatively new member and dont have any problems here. Sure there are the ego maniacs that love the sound of their own voice but you have that anywhere you go. I say leave Dakka as it is. This is a wonderful place.

No BloodThirSTAR, Dakka is not so bad. You can lead a very fulfilling and positive "internet life" on dakka and never run into the issues discussed here. Decide to be a positive influence and support others who you think are also positive influences... that's all it takes.

That being said, it does not mean that the problems cease to exist... but you do not need to involve yourself in them, perpetuate them, or seek to solve them. All of those options are voluntary... enter at your own risk.

Frazzled wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

gorgon wrote:this path ultimately ends up with one person on a blog spouting their views with no "idiots," "retards," or "newbs" to say they're wrong.

Instead, we have a bunch of "idiots" "retards" and "newbs" posting advice, and competent players unwilling to step in and call them on the garbage that they're spewing because its easy to be offended at someone disagreeing with you, leading to flamewars and banning. Reecius has explained this in significant depth, and its been discussed ad naseum.

The problem is NOT someone espousing views that get disagreed with. The problem is that readers have to wade through the "garbage" to find something worth reading, and there is no quality control. These topics are all being addressed now I think; if we get a "40k watercooler" forum, and all of the "Who's primarch is best in the bedroom?" threads get tossed in there...that would be a great start towards filtering out the noise from the rest of the stuff being posted.

Explain how that relates to the tactics forum DoP? The "who's primarch has the best tan" types threads only make it into tactics by accident and are re-routed with ease if they are reported. Are you espousing only certain posters be allowed to comment in the tactics forums?

DashofPepper's idea of discussion on the tactics forum is to challenge all who disagree to vassal games. What's the old saying, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate?

BloodThirSTAR wrote:

That being said, it does not mean that the problems cease to exist... but you do not need to involve yourself in them, perpetuate them, or seek to solve them. All of those options are voluntary... enter at your own risk.

This what I was saying in a nutshell.

Ignoring the "problem boards" and pidgeon-holing users into basically non-human beings who aren't capable of becoming community members is a shame.

I came into Dakka farily recently, and I don't see any problems other than the common ones seen once every major forum community grows to this point. If you walk into any community setting, you're going to find people who want to have a meaningful conversation, and people who just want to mess around and small talk.

The solution isn't "mods, do more work and create cool new features that filter people out".

It's "as a community, visit these problem boards/users, and talk to them like human beings".

I understand where your coming from Magnalon and I agree that the number one way for the community to become better is to improve the quality of posts overall. After all if people cultivate better posts and the member work together to make the community better then it will become so.

However that on its own won't fix things. It is really easy for a minority of users to post more messages then people who want to improve community and drown them out.

So yes having people actively work towards a more constructive community is the first thing that needs to be done to make this place better but its not a cure all, nor should it be.

Post ranking ranking systems are a great way for people say a post isn't that good without joining a flame war.

What about something like this?

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=203801

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:
IMO Fiction should be kept for actual stories, while homebrew chapters should go in either Background or Discussions, depending on how 'serious' they are.

When folks put up their homebrew chapters fluff for the rest of us to see and comment on, to me, they are saying 'Folks, just created this chapter of marines, do they fit the 40k mythos comfortably or do they need some trimming around the edges to be a better fit?'

Background would seem the natural place for those.

Agreed.

And if the person gets angsty/defensive when their precious creation is told it "doesn't fit"...then move it to Discussion.

olympia wrote:

DashofPepper's idea of discussion on the tactics forum is to challenge all who disagree to vassal games. What's the old saying, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate?

That's both ludicrous and false. I remember when you weren't an eyesore here, its a shame that you post what you do now.

Hmm...is it possible to get a consensus about what must be done rather than re-re-re-reargue these points?

doomworcs wrote:
Post ranking ranking systems are a great way for people say a post isn't that good without joining a flame war.

Systems similar to Reddit can work, but in my opinion, it's a slippery slope.

Just like how a minority of users can flood the forums with bad topics without reprisal [the current system], with the new system, a minority can spam vote down people that they don't like (ie I see a lot of Dash hate in this thread).

Or, vice versa, elitist members can downvote new community member's posts and dissuade them from posting again.

It's a tough issue to crack for sure. My Philosophy is to keep things simple, and breed community tolerance. It's possible some non-staff members may act like they have more clout, and stake in the site than others (which is an unfortunate by-product of the donation scheme), but the fact is every community member is equal.

Dashofpepper wrote:

olympia wrote:

DashofPepper's idea of discussion on the tactics forum is to challenge all who disagree to vassal games. What's the old saying, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate?

That's both ludicrous and false. I remember when you weren't an eyesore here, its a shame that you post what you do now.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/295233.page#1580954

1. As soon as he grows testicles and steps up on Vassal.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/295737.page#1588321

I have an idea. You know what Vassal is right? Why don't you meet on me on Vassal for a game of 40k with this list for a 1750 game. I'll play at a point disadvantage to make things a little more fair, AND if you beat me, I'll buy you $50 worth of your choice of stuff from The WarStore.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/297456.page#1622131

Why don't you take this 1500 point list here....step it up 500 points on Vassal and I'll play a game against you; and I'll voluntarily play 1500 against you 2000. I'd like to take a mediocre list at a 500 point deficit and table you with it; I don't know how better to show you that your list is junk than to take a mediocre, untailored list at a huge point deficit and take your army apart with it.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/298113.page#1640460

You're welcome to bring your most painful Tyranid list and I will crush it too.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/285415.page#1437906

I've yet to lose against Tyranids, and I find their new iteration incredibly weak. See other threads, battle reports of mine, etc.

If you or anyone feels that your tyranids have got a magic touch, you're welcome to meet me on Vassal, which is the next best thing to a game in person and find out in person.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/289360.page#1489826

Since you're so comfortable discarding my thoughts on why your list isn't unbeatable, how about this:

1. Download Vassal. Its free....

and so on and on and on....

Agreed.

I don't think that any kind of ranking system on here would be a good idea just for the fact that it WILL be abused by horrible posters... espically users that have a blind cult following behind them.

Curses! I had a whole bank of terminals with weiner dogs at the ready to implement my nefarious ranking system plans. If it weren't for you meddlesome kids!

Olympia, most of those are in my battle reports, or in the army list section. When I'm talking about a method of doing something and someone argues that their way is better....there's no better solution than to offer them a first-hand demonstration to *see* what I'm talking about instead of just theorying it out.

Pointing out several such instances is fine; Vassal is a useful learning tool in that respect for helping show people the finer points of something I'm explaining. That's not the issue.

Your blanket assertion that my only contribution to the tactics section is to challenge people to vassal games is both untrue and inflammatory. That's why you're an eyesore; most of your posting these days is that kind of imflammatory crap.

Modquisition on, and ironically so.
Lets employ chillaxation techniques no and get off attacking each other, no?

I've been on dakka fo rlord knows how long. I think i've seen every topic imaginable. I mostly just hangout in news and modelling.

My suggestion for bringing dakka back is simple..and dayes me..

Just bring back Mauleed. At least when he flamed you it was for a reason other than you having disagreed.

And get rid of the OT forum. Nothing good in there at all.

ender502

zoinks!

Magnalon wrote:

BloodThirSTAR wrote:

That being said, it does not mean that the problems cease to exist... but you do not need to involve yourself in them, perpetuate them, or seek to solve them. All of those options are voluntary... enter at your own risk.

Actually I never said that.

Anyways I am opposed to the neo elitist movement some are trying to push on Dakka.