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2021/06/25 16:28:05
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Blocking AP stacking effects is a bit of a drastic change, not really something they do for post-release faq/erattas.
Though i do agree that strat is gonna goto 5+ OR become a 2cp. Kinda baffles me that its a 1cp strat more than its effect, since the strat right below it for rangers is nowhere near as lethal but is 2cp for some reason.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2021/06/25 21:50:08
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
CountCyrus wrote: Heading to a post pandemic beerhammer with some buds. Decided to take my pandemic project army, but as I have no play experience, I have no clue if this list is any good. Would love some pointers.
Looks perfectly fine. I could quibble about fine tuning, but it's a fairly strong list.
Xenomancers wrote: Whats the toughts on the upcoming immediate hotfixes? At the very minimum.
No souping forge worlds or lose imperatives.
Stratagems nerfed - 4+ auto wounds goes to 5+.
AP bonues do not stack. Max -1 AP from buffs/stratagems.
I cannot find any rumors and leaks about this. Are you proposing these ideas as a hotfix? I think they're entirely unnecessary.
Vineheart01 wrote: Though i do agree that strat is gonna goto 5+ OR become a 2cp. Kinda baffles me that its a 1cp strat more than its effect, since the strat right below it for rangers is nowhere near as lethal but is 2cp for some reason.
The difference is that the Ranger's strat literally doubles their damage. The Vanguard's strat only doubles their damage in the context of T6+ models (against which they're otherwise ineffective), and provides progressively less benefit against lower toughness enemies.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/25 21:54:08
Vanguard's strat is more than double vs T6, it vastly improves it vs any toughness. High armor is the only thing that radium shots suffer against when compared to galvanics.
Its an autowound on a HIT roll of a 4+, which completely negates the wound roll. Thats even better than making them suddenly S20 since the wound cannot fail. Its literally an every-turn strat, even against T3 things its still significantly improving the total wounding. Unless youre hitting a 2+ save target where the AP1 makes a difference 10 vanguard will cause like 6-8 more wounds than rangers. Big difference though is the vanguard one stays almost the same against any toughness, ranger one tapers off even against T5. Theyre both good i just find it odd that the vanguard one is 1cp when it is clearly better.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/26 04:25:53
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2021/06/26 05:50:25
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Between the two strats, what GW has to contend with is that in practice Rangers have more avenues for buffs which have an cumulative effect.
With their strat, BS2+, re-roll 1s to hit and wound, and an extra AP, the Rangers inflict:
20 wounds to T7 3+
30 wounds to T4 3+
50 wounds to T3 4+
With the same buffs, Vanguard deal:
19.7 wounds to T6+ 3+
22 wounds to T4/5 3+
32 wounds to T3 4+
It may seem like excessive support skews the results, but frankly everyone includes a Manipulus and Marshall with its relic anyway. It's not hard to apply two auras to the Rangers on the turn you plan to spend 2CP. What's more, the strat works on any kind of target: Rangers can vaporize any tanks that stray too close, while Vanguard won't scratch the paint.
That being said, I do think the Ranger strat should be 1/2 for 5+ PL. Two CP to double a 10 man squad's output is extremely steep.
Aaranis wrote: So guys I'm going to a tournament in September. I haven't had more than 2 games of 9th since release but I've got the whole summer to practice. I'm not going there in with a WAAC mindset and want to play the models I own and I like, so the 4 Kastelan Robots are staying no matter what.
That said I'd like opinions on my draft list. Theory-tactica below.
I think you want at least one 20x unit of Vanguard. They pretty much delete heavy infantry, monsters, and Primarchs; can be used a deep striking bomb in Lucius; and they can turn any objective into a tarpit.
Corpuscarii are more reliable than Fulgurites IMO. You get to shoot with them and then attempt the charge. They do not fight as well as Fulgurites, of course, but the ability to interact in multiple phases is very valuable. However, if you are going to run them as Fulgurites, consider starting them out on the board and using Flare to get them into charge range. They need Logi to stick until they can get a kill for 4++. After that, you don't need to give them Logi anymore. (Downside is that you cannot use the Flare for your Robots, which is a problem.)
Not so sure if it is worth going up to 6x Ballistarii. Lots of nasty Blast weapons out there that will put the hurt on them, and maneuvering them in pairs is difficult.
I would also consider at least one 5x unit of Infiltrators. It helps to establish a bit of a beach head in the midboard. You can also use them to capture objectives and complete secondaries. Definitely MVPs in terms of scoring.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm holding my breath on Vanguards as I'm sure they'll get their strat changed before the tournament. If they don't, I'm totally including a unit and will deep strike them. Can we deep strike T1 now ?
I won't use Corpuscarii, I don't have any and own 5 Fulgurites so it'll complete my existing squad. I also like the mortal wounds output, great for those invulnerable saves. But you're right that Corpuscarii are easier to play with and have a great damage output.
Blast weapons on units of 6 is usually the average roll anyway, but yeah, if playing 5 can allow for some 1s and 2s to be rolled that's great. Also easier to move around the board. Also one Ironstrider fewer I have to paint.
Infiltrators are fine to include, they're great in 9th. I'll put some if I can. What's your thoughts on the Pteraxii ?
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2021/06/26 18:51:54
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I’m loathe to try them until after the faq. Just to see what is intended. I don’t have much experience with them to be honest other than a couple of test games on TTS.
In real life I’ve been having lots of fun with infiltrators. They provide a bit of an overlap. Some contrast sure but I’ve been getting by using infiltrators instead
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/26 18:52:21
2021/06/26 20:14:32
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I feel like there's not much they can do to nerf us at this point, not without rewriting a large chunk of our codex. If Enriched Rounds gets nerfed, then we will just use Rangers.
2021/06/26 20:50:38
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
two changes I'd like to see:
Enriched Rounds and Volly Fire go to 1CP for x PL, 2 CP for y PL.
Makes it more well rounded in one case and a slight nerf on the other.
I somehow really feel that Kastelans need to remain core if their Datasmith performs an action... removing the AURA from the ability would already suffice.
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2021/06/26 21:12:12
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Wrote a list for fun with an Irradiated Forge-World. It could be quite effective, I'd definitely try this if I had the models.
Spoiler:
Batallion: Irradiated Forge-World
- Primary trait: If a Base unit is shot at from more than 12", the shot has -1S
- Secondary trait: +1S & +1AP on Radium weapons
Every Vanguard squad is inside a Skorpius, the Manipulus and the Marshal are embarked in separate transports as well. Infiltrators start hidden mid-field if they can. The Dominus camps behind with the Ironstriders, and the Fulgurites come on round 2 when the screens have been cleared. I could give Multitasking Cortex or something to the Marshal to keep a maximum of firepower.
Math-wise, we're looking at 162 S4, AP-1 Radium shots, 10 Arc shots, 72 S4 AP0 shots, 10 Lascannon shots, 50 S3 AP0 shots, + the charges from the Infiltrators and the Fulgurites. Could be a nice list, flooding the board with Vanguards that have essentially irradiated Bolt Rifles.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2021/06/28 01:00:03
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I wanted to check with folks to make sure I wasn't just missing something. Did the Cognis weapons lose their overwatch at full BS benefits when we moved to the new codex?
2021/06/28 07:16:22
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Thairne wrote: So we're gonna get a Skitarii Veteran Cohort.
....
oh noes I might not be able to use cult mechanicus units whatever will I doooooooooooooooooooo...
Oh. Yes. I remember.
Hopefully it's more interesting than making them BS2 like the DE ones.
My vote would go to:
Vanguard: auto wound on 5+ to hit but without the vehicle caveat.
Rangers: Full pre-game normal move. or give them back the ignoring of look out sir and sniper rules like raiders.
I could see both of them being limited to one squad and 10 per unit as well, just because they'd be WAY too powerful. They're already amazing without adding more to them. Unless they have a penalty somewhere worked into it.
2021/06/28 16:52:47
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
You guys are forgetting something.
If it follows the pattern of the MDC, you will not have access to a manipulus. No range and AP increase.
You will not get access to a dogma. So no canticles or +1sv. To be even remotely useful it will have top top Mars and Lucius by a considerable margin.
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2021/06/28 18:18:33
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Yeah whatever it's going to be forbidden in Matched Play 5 seconds later anyway. And I'm not happy if they boost Skitarii so much that everyone will call nerf on them and we'll lose every fun thing we have in punishment.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2021/06/28 21:21:17
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Aaranis wrote: Yeah whatever it's going to be forbidden in Matched Play 5 seconds later anyway. And I'm not happy if they boost Skitarii so much that everyone will call nerf on them and we'll lose every fun thing we have in punishment.
We already lost most of the really fun things to begin with. Squadroned Onagers, multi-weapon squads, etc.
*glares at the Cult Mechanicus players who couldn't figure out how to run their own army pre-8E*
2021/06/28 21:29:46
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I am not sure if it will be hit with the nerf bat because, in a lot of the battle reports I have seen, people just don't know what to do with the canticles and imperatives. Sure, the plus one bs one is obvious but after that most players are lost. What I am getting at is that this army is not as easy to pilot as Dark Eldar. Even if a tournament player comes along with a great list it will be hard to duplicate his result because of all the choices you have with canticles and imperatives. The codex is strong but it is not I buy x and I win so I doubt it will be nerfed as I originally thought.
Frankly, it needs an unnerf NOW with regards to the special weapons language.
The more time I've had to go over it, the more time I've had to realize that whoever wrote it has zero idea how to actually present something in a meaningful way(Bullet points/listing matter when writing out ranked choice lists, dangit!) and basically was told to make it so that taking plasma couldn't be done easily in 10 model units.
2021/06/29 10:56:29
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
The MDC was just a single detachment, so this is likely to be the same. But it'll be the same Forgeworld so I dont see how a manipulus in a regular lucius detachments galvanic field wouldn't work on whatever special detachment this is. Sure they lose dogmas and canticles, thats not a big deal if they're buffed anyway. if they both get BS2 + something flavourful then we dont really need dogmas for them because they only benefit from 2 of them anyway and we can always Transhuman and logi them still.
2021/06/29 16:15:28
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
The MDC didnt forbid you from having SKITARII in the detachment - it forbid you from having SKITARII in your ARMY.
So it is fair to assume you will be locked out of CULT MECHANICUS for your army in this detachment.
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2021/06/29 19:05:03
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Vineheart01 wrote: Blocking AP stacking effects is a bit of a drastic change, not really something they do for post-release faq/erattas.
Though i do agree that strat is gonna goto 5+ OR become a 2cp. Kinda baffles me that its a 1cp strat more than its effect, since the strat right below it for rangers is nowhere near as lethal but is 2cp for some reason.
It's not even about the CP. There are situations where You would spend your entire CP bank of 9/12 to use it. Because it can literally 1 shot Magnus or Belekor. A push to 2 CP would make absolutely no difference. You'd still see the exact same list popping up. It is a big problem - insofar as these units are essentially unplayable due to the stratagems existence. Really any big infantry brick other than admech infantry became unplayable. When it comes to facing multimelta on your tanks or having 2 infantry units a turn auto deleted from 2 1 cp stratagems - people will chose to face the melta on their tanks every day. Meltas roll few enough dice they will fail to kill your tank sometimes.
AP stacking restrictions is and has already been a thing. Space marine doctrines do not stack with other stratagems that give you more bonus AP. I can't think of any other situations because getting stacking of negative AP is actually pretty rare - necrons get get a -2 on mephrite with their dynasty trait and a command protocol - I'd be more than happy to see that go away it really doesn't matter much going from ap-3 to ap-4 but going from 0 to -2 is huge. The reason it is an issue is because of the exponential potential with other buffs and stratagems. I think modifier maxes are a really good idea. It really fixed the - to hit nonsense that eldar were famous for - it can fix these issues now.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2021/06/29 22:36:41
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Vineheart01 wrote: Blocking AP stacking effects is a bit of a drastic change, not really something they do for post-release faq/erattas.
Though i do agree that strat is gonna goto 5+ OR become a 2cp. Kinda baffles me that its a 1cp strat more than its effect, since the strat right below it for rangers is nowhere near as lethal but is 2cp for some reason.
It's not even about the CP. There are situations where You would spend your entire CP bank of 9/12 to use it. Because it can literally 1 shot Magnus or Belekor. A push to 2 CP would make absolutely no difference. You'd still see the exact same list popping up. It is a big problem - insofar as these units are essentially unplayable due to the stratagems existence. Really any big infantry brick other than admech infantry became unplayable. When it comes to facing multimelta on your tanks or having 2 infantry units a turn auto deleted from 2 1 cp stratagems - people will chose to face the melta on their tanks every day. Meltas roll few enough dice they will fail to kill your tank sometimes.
AP stacking restrictions is and has already been a thing. Space marine doctrines do not stack with other stratagems that give you more bonus AP. I can't think of any other situations because getting stacking of negative AP is actually pretty rare - necrons get get a -2 on mephrite with their dynasty trait and a command protocol - I'd be more than happy to see that go away it really doesn't matter much going from ap-3 to ap-4 but going from 0 to -2 is huge. The reason it is an issue is because of the exponential potential with other buffs and stratagems. I think modifier maxes are a really good idea. It really fixed the - to hit nonsense that eldar were famous for - it can fix these issues now.
Every 9th edition codex has 2-3 really powerful stratagems. Transhuman physiology cuts the damage output of units like Magnus and Mortarion in half. Deathguard pox walkers dish out mortal wounds. As far as rules that rival canticles and imperatives Deathshroud with Putrifiers buff and Arch-contaminator literally can dish out 10+ mortal wounds easily. Succubus doing Succubus things. Permanent Transhuman on Dark Angel Objective Secured Terminators. When it comes to damage output or defensive traits there are things that match or beat the 2 stratagems that make the skitarii troop choices viable.
As a Necron Player if you were to complain about how easy the canticles and imperatives work that is one thing as our version sucks. We Necron Players have disintegration capacitors which does the exact same thing except on 6's with weapons that have ap 2 or better naturally. 20 Warriors with buffs regardless if the unit is transhuman or not is still killing a lot of Skitarii, maybe not the entire squad but enough to fail the morale save on anything but a one. Once Lychguard gets into the fray the troop choices are going to be dead. You know which unit is receiving the durability buffs just shoot something else or charge it.
At the end of the day, the skitarii troop choices are like all the other 9th edition codexes troop choices. With buffs and stratagems, they can do some nasty stuff. WIthout the buffs and stratagems do you think a Lucius Skitarii troop choice is better than a Valorous Heart battle sister?
I would be shocked if AP stacking is allowed, that's silly and goes against the establish set of rules that are similar in nature.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/29 22:41:25
Any love for the Terrax Pattern Termite at the moment? Still seems fairly solid at 180 points, particularly as it has the Skitarii keyword and Doctrina Imperatives (how long that will last is anyone’s guess). My thoughts are it helps save a Warlord Trait when using Priests, or can save a CP for Ruststalkers by not needing Circuitous Assassins for one turn to get them into position and is a good fit for deepstriking in turn 2 when we’ve probably got Protector Doctrina active (and likely Benediction or Invocation in Mars lists). The Melta cutter is a pretty nasty weapon to drop on the board and free heavy flamers are a nice addition as well.
While I’m still lacking some of the newer units like Archaeopters and Serberys cavalry I think I might use one or two. The Skorpius tanks I was using last edition don’t seem nearly so useful now and are actually looking pretty lacklustre this edition. This has left me with a big points gap to fill in my 2000 points lists. Seems like it would be a decent fit for Mars particularly.
2021/07/04 08:51:28
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I've been debating adding the drill back into my list, I need a LOT more games to playtest thing first however. Personally I think it's currently a little underrated.
Approx armies
9000pts AdMech (Main army)
7000pts Black Templars (original army)
3500pts Death Guard (lazy side project)
2000pts Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
2000pts Harlequins (fun side project)
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
Black Templars (original army)
Death Guard (lazy side project)
Imperial Knights (extension of AdMech)
Harlequins (fun side project)