torblind wrote:
HQ tax is less of a thing though, isn't it?

Defo.

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but technically a Skorpekh lord and illuminor can ride around in a ghost ark which I find very amusing

It still annoys me to no end that the Imperial Guard have better living metal on their vehicles than necrons have in general.

Putting together 500 points of necrons to gift to a friend, what should I generally be looking to put together and paint first from indomitus? (I have pretty much decided that I'm getting it)

Anything else I should be looking for?

Neknoh wrote:
Putting together 500 points of necrons to gift to a friend, what should I generally be looking to put together and paint first from indomitus? (I have pretty much decided that I'm getting it)

Anything else I should be looking for?

It’s a bit light on vehicles, which some players particularly enjoy. The Ghost Ark/DDA kit can be built either way and both units are pretty good at the moment (DDAs are competitive must-takes in 8th and probably will remain so for 9th). Both are 170+ points, and gobble up a hefty portion of your 500pt budget.

Well, it would probably still fit.

My personal, cut-down army of Krieg includes 2 grenadier squads, a small group of death riders and 2 basilisks.

The list I built for the friend who likes chaos has 2 small units of chaos space marines, a raptor squad and a defiler.

So a DDA would be rather on point for how the lists are formated

sieGermans wrote:

Neknoh wrote:
Putting together 500 points of necrons to gift to a friend, what should I generally be looking to put together and paint first from indomitus? (I have pretty much decided that I'm getting it)

Anything else I should be looking for?

It’s a bit light on vehicles, which some players particularly enjoy. The Ghost Ark/DDA kit can be built either way and both units are pretty good at the moment (DDAs are competitive must-takes in 8th and probably will remain so for 9th). Both are 170+ points, and gobble up a hefty portion of your 500pt budget.

Dda is bloody murder at 500 though. Without it what you gonna go vs vehicles? Especially 9th popular so would expect 1-2 even at 500. And even without floating tough flayer array does job nicely

140 for ghost, 180 for dda.

I literally have the 500 points list it will be fighting.

Vehicle presence so far (depending on list):

2 basilisk
1 defiler
Squad of Primaris bikers


Edit: potential ways to deal with vehicles as far as I understand:

Skorpekh Lord/Destroyers
Classical floating Heavy Destroyers
Ark of one type or another
And... that's that's about it?

Neknoh wrote:
I literally have the 500 points list it will be fighting.

Vehicle presence so far (depending on list):

2 basilisk
1 defiler
Squad of Primaris bikers


Edit: potential ways to deal with vehicles as far as I understand:

Skorpekh Lord/Destroyers
Classical floating Heavy Destroyers
Ark of one type or another
And... that's that's about it?

Lol imagine being the kind of person that brings 2 basalisks to a 500 pts game.

I can tell you the answer to every single of those vehicle threats - scarabs. Fast, cheap and enough wounds to keep those vehicles tied up all game.

You could also just bring two DDAs and laugh.

Haha, well, I've always loved them and they made more sense when prepping to play against another group of much more vicious friends.

But then came the points change and the list went from 2 officers, 3 infantry squads, death riders and 2 basilisks down to only a single officer and 2 grenadier squads instead.

If it turns out to be too mean to get my friends in the hobby I'll be sure to replace the basis with something more reasonable for 500 points, like a Russ and some engineers.

Again, I am trying to build these lists to have some good interplay between them, with deepstriking raptors and red corsair infantry (and that twin flamer defiler) to try to counter my larger infantry force and more vulnerable artillery.

So for Necrons, I am trying to run something that plays with the new models but also to that sort of Ancient Space Empire Terminarors- fantasy and can go up against msu, larger infantry squads and vehicles. Considering I am getting Indomitus, there's also gonna be straight primaries marines in there.

So PMEQ, MEQ, Astra Militarum, all with some sort of big vehicle in there.

My immediate thought would be something like:

Patrol

Warriors + scarabs
Dda or Ghost Ark

Either more warriors and scarabs or something from the new stuff such as Skorpekhs or that tall, spindly war of the worlds kinda thing (although I gather that that one might need a larger amount of bodies to be worth taking?)

I also got the advice to include some Blades and just go lord, 2x warriors, Blades

Anyone else notice that Particle weapons are absent from the official Blast Weapons list?

v0iddrgn wrote:
Anyone else notice that Particle weapons are absent from the official Blast Weapons list?

I don't think any of our particle weapons require a roll. They all fire a fixed amount of shots so they don't need the blast key word

sieGermans wrote:

For an untargetable 18”, d3, str8, -4ap, d6dmg gun which satisfies an HQ ‘tax’, he’s cheap for 145 points. Not good enough for tournament use, I’ve concluded, but still cheap.

I’d put him at B+ on the old scale.

What makes him untargetable ? I see nothing in the rules saying something like that.

He's a Character with fewer than 9 wounds, so Look Out, Sir keeps him untargetable.

Neknoh wrote:
Haha, well, I've always loved them and they made more sense when prepping to play against another group of much more vicious friends.

But then came the points change and the list went from 2 officers, 3 infantry squads, death riders and 2 basilisks down to only a single officer and 2 grenadier squads instead.

If it turns out to be too mean to get my friends in the hobby I'll be sure to replace the basis with something more reasonable for 500 points, like a Russ and some engineers.

Again, I am trying to build these lists to have some good interplay between them, with deepstriking raptors and red corsair infantry (and that twin flamer defiler) to try to counter my larger infantry force and more vulnerable artillery.

So for Necrons, I am trying to run something that plays with the new models but also to that sort of Ancient Space Empire Terminarors- fantasy and can go up against msu, larger infantry squads and vehicles. Considering I am getting Indomitus, there's also gonna be straight primaries marines in there.

So PMEQ, MEQ, Astra Militarum, all with some sort of big vehicle in there.

My immediate thought would be something like:

Patrol

Warriors + scarabs
Dda or Ghost Ark

Either more warriors and scarabs or something from the new stuff such as Skorpekhs or that tall, spindly war of the worlds kinda thing (although I gather that that one might need a larger amount of bodies to be worth taking?)

I also got the advice to include some Blades and just go lord, 2x warriors, Blades

Sorry, assumed you were saying someone else was planning to bring that against you.

Generally I'd say 1 tank per list at 500pts (one battle tank anyway, you can have a transport too). otherwise it skews the game too much as most of a lists firepower will be ineffective against those tanks and they just dominate. It's why I've stopped bringing DDAs in our local club nights 800 pts games... it just never died and when you get five turns of tank firepower at low points, you win.

So perhaps I should consider going heavy hitters and tank busters with the necrons instead of bringing an ark, if only to make the game less about "can my tank blow up your tank" and more about "my tank has to choose a target and there are at least two different units that can take it out"

Neknoh wrote:
So perhaps I should consider going heavy hitters and tank busters with the necrons instead of bringing an ark, if only to make the game less about "can my tank blow up your tank" and more about "my tank has to choose a target and there are at least two different units that can take it out"

In which case, your best subsequent options are Heavy Destroyers or Triarch Stalker.

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
Anyone else notice that Particle weapons are absent from the official Blast Weapons list?

I don't think any of our particle weapons require a roll. They all fire a fixed amount of shots so they don't need the blast key word

Traditionally, our Particle weapons have been Blast weapons. I remember using the Blast templates for them. I understand that it would be a sort of nerf to them if they started following the new Blast rules but I just found it strange.

 IHateNids wrote:
He's a Character with fewer than 9 wounds, so Look Out, Sir keeps him untargetable.

Look out sir doesnt make you untargetable. There are plenty of rules which lets your opponent ignore look out sir.

If you are bringing Szeras, you should add 1 to 2 of the 20 point models which prevent targeting even by snipers, but only for Crypteks. Hide them behind a wall, put szeras in front of it, and giggle.

 DogHeadGod wrote:
If you are bringing Szeras, you should add 1 to 2 of the 20 point models which prevent targeting even by snipers, but only for Crypteks. Hide them behind a wall, put szeras in front of it, and giggle.

Or bring six of them and yeet the lot of them up the board (hiding behind cover where possible obvs). 6 cryptothralls and szeras will blend just about anything.

sieGermans wrote:

Neknoh wrote:
So perhaps I should consider going heavy hitters and tank busters with the necrons instead of bringing an ark, if only to make the game less about "can my tank blow up your tank" and more about "my tank has to choose a target and there are at least two different units that can take it out"

In which case, your best subsequent options are Heavy Destroyers or Triarch Stalker.

Liking this thought, Heavy Destroyers actually completely slipped my mind on this, and since no army designed so far has that type of heavy group (almost went for terminators for Chaos, but got a better balance with raptors and more CSM, otherwise the army would have been 2 min-sized units and a defiler), I'll probably go with them.

So looking at something like:

One of the HQ choices from Indomitus

2 warriors
Heavy Destroyers
Scarabs if I can fit them

Plasmancer and Cryptobuckets probably not bad at this point level. Mortal wounds might be helpful for plinking the last wounds off things

 IHateNids wrote:
Plasmancer and Cryptobuckets probably not bad at this point level. Mortal wounds might be helpful for plinking the last wounds off things

I watched a Battle report recently and the cryptothralls really pull there weight as long as they have a cryptek nearby and get the charge off.

Otherwise they are a bit squishy for a CC unit

 IHateNids wrote:
Plasmancer and Cryptobuckets probably not bad at this point level. Mortal wounds might be helpful for plinking the last wounds off things

yeah I watched the Guerrilla Miniatures battle report they did using the starter box set, in a small game that little dude can kick out some serious hurt with his mortal wounds and zappy stick and the murderbuckets.

I think the Cryptobuckets are honestly a weapon of last resort the range of their buff from being near their master is small, so it will only come into play if your line is under threat, but in that niche, they are solid. It can be a rude surprise for sure.

Ok, so Plasmancer vs Skorpekh lord for HQ then

Warriors

Heavy destroyers

Scarabs

Neknoh wrote:
Ok, so Plasmancer vs Skorpekh lord for HQ then

Warriors

Heavy destroyers

Scarabs

If it's one or the other then Skorpekh.

Also, assuming you already have the heavy destroyers? If not, i wouldn't buy new ones now with the Lokhust probably only weeks away from launch.

Yeah, Lokhust destroyers are the ones I meant, even if they're not yet released.

So just with indomitus, I'll probably just go Skorpekh cult with warriors and scarabs, and when the Lokhust come in, that will be a nifty upgrade to 250 points (assuming 3 model minimum units for 60-70 points plus 30 points of guns total).

Edit: VERY rough list based on guesstimated unit costs from the 9th points update.

Skorpekh Lord

10 warriors
5 immortals

3-4 scarab swarms

3 skorpekh destroyers

Should be around 500 points.

New to 8th/9th ed 40K and Necrons inpaticular as haven't played 40k since late 6th early 7th. Getting the box set and feel like having a go at Necrons this edition and have some old Necron kits from Forgebane and Kill Team that I am itching to build now to go along with the Indomitus box that I am getting.

Any observations / suggestions on Gauss vs. Tesla, specifically on Immortals and Tomb blades?

Also what about Lychguard vs Praterions?

Finally are naked wraiths still the way to go?

As soon as they are back in stock it sounds like DDA's are a must buy along with more Immortals. Is there anything elses I should put on the must buy list from the current range?

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
New to 8th/9th ed 40K and Necrons inpaticular as haven't played 40k since late 6th early 7th. Getting the box set and feel like having a go at Necrons this edition and have some old Necron kits from Forgebane and Kill Team that I am itching to build now to go along with the Indomitus box that I am getting.

Any observations / suggestions on Gauss vs. Tesla, specifically on Immortals and Tomb blades?

Also what about Lychguard vs Praterions?

Finally are naked wraiths still the way to go?

As soon as they are back in stock it sounds like DDA's are a must buy along with more Immortals. Is there anything elses I should put on the must buy list from the current range?

Well would hold off to codex before investing heavily. For example naked wraiths is now NOT the way to go as for FREE you can give them S6 pistol with zero drawbacks so right now there's literally no reason whatsoever to not give them pistols. But is that same in codex is another thing...

Tesla, tesla, tesla unless codex changes.

Lychguard. Again codex might change.

As it is necron troops aren't that hot and 9th ed doesn't look to be kind so if you have 15 immortals might not need to buy more. I'm looking at zero troop army myself.

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
New to 8th/9th ed 40K and Necrons inpaticular as haven't played 40k since late 6th early 7th. Getting the box set and feel like having a go at Necrons this edition and have some old Necron kits from Forgebane and Kill Team that I am itching to build now to go along with the Indomitus box that I am getting.

Any observations / suggestions on Gauss vs. Tesla, specifically on Immortals and Tomb blades?

Also what about Lychguard vs Praterions?

Finally are naked wraiths still the way to go?

As soon as they are back in stock it sounds like DDA's are a must buy along with more Immortals. Is there anything elses I should put on the must buy list from the current range?

We are close enough to to codex that I would say waiting on anything that has options.

Tesla has been the best option since the 5th edition dex and they were first unveiled, but it's very likely they are moving to unmodified 6's. Even then, it's likely that Tesla will still be better unless Gauss gets some kind of boost.

I would wait on Lychguard v Praetorians. There is a very good chance they change and something like the Praetorians getting Dynasty keywords would change the dynamic.

Wraiths naked have usually been the best bet, though right now the Pistols are free... That being said I'm not sure if that is going to be the same until the next dex.

We are likely less than 2 months out from the new Dex, maybe even sooner.

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
New to 8th/9th ed 40K and Necrons inpaticular as haven't played 40k since late 6th early 7th. Getting the box set and feel like having a go at Necrons this edition and have some old Necron kits from Forgebane and Kill Team that I am itching to build now to go along with the Indomitus box that I am getting.

Any observations / suggestions on Gauss vs. Tesla, specifically on Immortals and Tomb blades?

Also what about Lychguard vs Praterions?

Finally are naked wraiths still the way to go?

As soon as they are back in stock it sounds like DDA's are a must buy along with more Immortals. Is there anything elses I should put on the must buy list from the current range?

Welcome aboard

Others have covered it, but basically hold off on making big decisions. None of the units or weapon options you mentioned are unplayably bad at the moment, so you won't doom yourself if you build Gauss Immortals or Praetorians, but generally at the moment Tesla is king for sure. That may well change though, as we're likely to lose our ability to proc testa on 5s.

Lyhcguard and Praetorians are both good in their own ways. Either is a good choice, but with weapons I'd go Shield and sword for lychguard, melee weapon and pistol for Praetorians (which is a shame, staff looks cooler but it's not as good).

I'd just try to hold out for Indomitus and then see what the codex brings though, as so much of what we are/how we play is about to change. Even the DDA, while still great on paper, may end up drifting out of competitive lists down the line.

If you're not too bothered about having the ultra winzors stuff, then just build whatever you think looks cool.

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
New to 8th/9th ed 40K and Necrons inpaticular as haven't played 40k since late 6th early 7th. Getting the box set and feel like having a go at Necrons this edition and have some old Necron kits from Forgebane and Kill Team that I am itching to build now to go along with the Indomitus box that I am getting.

Any observations / suggestions on Gauss vs. Tesla, specifically on Immortals and Tomb blades?

Also what about Lychguard vs Praterions?

Finally are naked wraiths still the way to go?

As soon as they are back in stock it sounds like DDA's are a must buy along with more Immortals. Is there anything elses I should put on the must buy list from the current range?

I agree with everything everyone has said, but I would say dont completely discount gauss on Tomb blades as with there high manoeuvrability its fairly easy for them to get into rapid fire range and 24 str 5 ap -2 as opposed to 24 (+8 bonus hits) str 5 ap 0 is very powerful against the right unit.
But I'll admit this is the only time I've ever favoured gauss over tesla and having your tomb blades at 12" isn't ideal and I only do this against particular armies

How is Tesla better than Gauss?

 Xyxel wrote:
How is Tesla better than Gauss?

Tesla generates 3 hits for every 6+ to hit. This can be improved with My Will Be Done to make it so your Tesla gets 3 hits for every 5 or 6 rolled, which means you get a ton of shots from a unit of Tesla Immortals.

it's also an Assault 2 weapon, while Gauss in Rapid Fire 1, so you always get maximum shots with Tesla.

Gauss isn't bad, but it's harder to get into its ideal range. As Aza'Gorod said though, Gauss is interesting on Tomb Blades since they can move up quickly enough to get into rapid fire range quite easily. We have no idea if either of these weapons will get buffed or nerfed in the new codex though. it's likely that tesla wording will be changed from 6+ to natural 6s, which will lower the output potential significantly.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Tesla generates 3 hits for every 6+ to hit. This can be improved with My Will Be Done to make it so your Tesla gets 3 hits for every 5 or 6 rolled, which means you get a ton of shots from a unit of Tesla Immortals.

it's also an Assault 2 weapon, while Gauss in Rapid Fire 1, so you always get maximum shots with Tesla.

Gauss isn't bad, but it's harder to get into its ideal range. As Aza'Gorod said though, Gauss is interesting on Tomb Blades since they can move up quickly enough to get into rapid fire range quite easily. We have no idea if either of these weapons will get buffed or nerfed in the new codex though. it's likely that tesla wording will be changed from 6+ to natural 6s, which will lower the output potential significantly.

One of the problem going with Gauss Tomb Blades is that they can't Fall Back and shoot. Being at 12" or less from your target is not ideal if you don't kill it, the risk of being charged and lose a turn of shooting is real.
Another thing for Tesla, right now with the overlord from Indomitus you can MWBD Tesla Tomb Blades. It's a LOT of shots. Tesla will probably change in our next codex though, it may be playable only for a month.

Shaelinith wrote:

One of the problem going with Gauss Tomb Blades is that they can't Fall Back and shoot. Being at 12" or less from your target is not ideal if you don't kill it, the risk of being charged and lose a turn of shooting is real.

Unless a royal warden says they can fallback and shoot.

 Aza'Gorod wrote:


I agree with everything everyone has said, but I would say dont completely discount gauss on Tomb blades as with there high manoeuvrability its fairly easy for them to get into rapid fire range and 24 str 5 ap -2 as opposed to 24 (+8 bonus hits) str 5 ap 0 is very powerful against the right unit.
But I'll admit this is the only time I've ever favoured gauss over tesla and having your tomb blades at 12" isn't ideal and I only do this against particular armies

2+ save targets(without 3++) aren't that common. Very niche target and if you don't face it you are hosed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xyxel wrote:
How is Tesla better than Gauss?

More damage output. With same max range. Tesla loses to gauss only vs 2+ target within 12". Very narrow niche. And the difference there isn't earth shattering.

Tesla is somehow better above 12" but inside 12" Gauss is better with strong AP-2. (vs T5 3+ save bike for example) You want to be good in short range with Necrons to score or board control. If you keep distance you'll lose to faster armies. For long range shooting there are other weapons.

Not to mention that sometimes 2+ save models with re-rollable 1 save with laugh at your tesla. Gauss have better psychological impact.

Not somehow. It's fairly obvious why and even inside 12" you need 2+ save target for gauss to win. 3+ is border line, 4+ and gauss is just lol whether you are 12" or 24"

We have plenty of guns that deal with 2+ save models far better than Gauss blasters, but very few guns have the general utility of tesla, which is amazing versus most targets.

10 tesla immortals can delete 30 boys, while still also putting a sizable dent in a unit of intercessors. It's also pretty effective at chipping wounds off vehicles due to Str 5 and weight of dice.

3 Immortals in 12" range of SM tactical:

Tesla - 6 shoots - 6 hits - 4 wounds - 1,33 unsaved
Gauss - 6 shoots - 4 hits - 2,66 wounds - 1,77 unsaved
or I've made a mistake somwhere here

PS.
vs. SM Scout Squad in 12:
Tesla - 6 shoots - 6 hits - 4 wounds - 2 unsaved
Gaus - 6 shots - 4 hits - 2,66 wounds - 2,21 unsaved

10 Immortals vs 30 Ork Boyz in cover, in 12":
Tesla - 20 shoots - 20 hits - 13,33 wounds - 8,88 unsaved
Gaus - 20 shoots - 13,33 hits - 8,88 wounds - 8,88 unsaved

tneva82 wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:


I agree with everything everyone has said, but I would say dont completely discount gauss on Tomb blades as with there high manoeuvrability its fairly easy for them to get into rapid fire range and 24 str 5 ap -2 as opposed to 24 (+8 bonus hits) str 5 ap 0 is very powerful against the right unit.
But I'll admit this is the only time I've ever favoured gauss over tesla and having your tomb blades at 12" isn't ideal and I only do this against particular armies

2+ save targets(without 3++) aren't that common. Very niche target and if you don't face it you are hosed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xyxel wrote:
How is Tesla better than Gauss?

More damage output. With same max range. Tesla loses to gauss only vs 2+ target within 12". Very narrow niche. And the difference there isn't earth shattering.

I play space marine and Tau players mostly and I did say I agree Tesla is better but Gauss has times when I prefer it.

Gauss Vs primaris marines within 12

24 shots, 15.84 hits, 10.45 wounds, 6.89 unsaved

Tesla vs primaris
24 shots, 24 hits (this part isn't quite exact but no idea how to go about it) 15.84 wounds, 5.22 unsaved

I admit its a small margin, but to me its noticeable when I've played against Tau and Space marines as in this case its the difference between 1 less primaris marine shooting at you.
under current rules Tomb blades are locked out of most of the buffs we could give them and i always play tesla immortals with MWBD (for now anyway)

 p5freak wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:

One of the problem going with Gauss Tomb Blades is that they can't Fall Back and shoot. Being at 12" or less from your target is not ideal if you don't kill it, the risk of being charged and lose a turn of shooting is real.

Unless a royal warden says they can fallback and shoot.

It will not be easy for a Royal Warden to follow Tomb Blades. Possible but difficult. I'll probably go the safe route with Tesla.

One thing not mentioned, Tesla overwatch was (is) far superior to Gauss. All those only 6's to hit became 3 hits. Under 8th edition, it wasn't that unusual for a 10 man squad of immortals to get charged in melee combat by a small already depleted assault unit or a lone character and through a combination of tesla overwatch and multiple rounds of combat /reanimation to actually emerge victorious grinding the opponent down.

The 9th changes to overwatch no longer being ubiquitous is actually a reasonable nerf to tesla. If they change the modifier of +1 to being only natural 6's for the tesla effect then difference between gauss and tesla will diminish further. Which is a shame for me because I own 30 tesla immortals and 0 gauss immortals ...

Just do what I'll do with my 40 tesla immorts... chop the gun and replace w 3dprint gauss, quickpainted. If tesla goes to unmodded 6s, it's mathematically dead. Only 5+ made it worth the fragility of the models, with 4+ on one unit if done right. I can see tesla bikes if they can reliably be buffed, but 6+ tesla means time to switch to gauss across the board.

 DogHeadGod wrote:
Just do what I'll do with my 40 tesla immorts... chop the gun and replace w 3dprint gauss, quickpainted. If tesla goes to unmodded 6s, it's mathematically dead. Only 5+ made it worth the fragility of the models, with 4+ on one unit if done right. I can see tesla bikes if they can reliably be buffed, but 6+ tesla means time to switch to gauss across the board.

If Tesla dies, Immortals don't switch to Gauss. We just stop taking Immortals. Tesla on natural 6s is still better than Gauss.

Depending on timing for certain transport options, I can find happy homes for gauss immortals outside of 5man engineer units if I can drop them from transports or slide them in off a board edge within 12. They do work vs our primary antagonist, the primaris.

I'm just gonn aleave my 20 Tesla Immortals as backfield objective squads, possibly in units of 5 to stay hidden

I am thinking 2 squads tesla, 1 squad gauss to move midfield.

What about Warriors on a boat?
Drive 10 up to an midfield objective, put the boat in front of an objective, if charged, disembark behind and let the boat eat melee while the warriors holding the objective. Do this twice.
If an opponent puts something on an objective, do the same, charge in the boat, drop out behind and try to hold the objecitve.

If you can get a Warden close, the warriors will have a pretty good time. Combine this with ye olde DDA:s in the backfield for screening out DS and holding objectives and a force of Skorpekh/Wraiths to assault the enemy lines, and I think that you might have a pretty good starting point for a list.

dethric wrote:
What about Warriors on a boat?
Drive 10 up to an midfield objective, put the boat in front of an objective, if charged, disembark behind and let the boat eat melee while the warriors holding the objective. Do this twice.
If an opponent puts something on an objective, do the same, charge in the boat, drop out behind and try to hold the objecitve.

If you can get a Warden close, the warriors will have a pretty good time. Combine this with ye olde DDA:s in the backfield for screening out DS and holding objectives and a force of Skorpekh/Wraiths to assault the enemy lines, and I think that you might have a pretty good starting point for a list.

I think this is worth testing, but I'm not willing to build ghost arks until I see the new book lol.

10 mans suck at living, 10 mans inside a 14 wound QS transport not so much.

How has everyone been doing with the points changes for 9th? Doesn't seem like we got hit as hard as some of the other ones (Drukhari, GSC, Tyranids, Orks), but definitely got hit harder than SM. What units have worked best in 9th? I know we're getting a new Codex soon, but what's worked so far?

dethric wrote:
What about Warriors on a boat?
Drive 10 up to an midfield objective, put the boat in front of an objective, if charged, disembark behind and let the boat eat melee while the warriors holding the objective. Do this twice.
If an opponent puts something on an objective, do the same, charge in the boat, drop out behind and try to hold the objecitve.

If you can get a Warden close, the warriors will have a pretty good time. Combine this with ye olde DDA:s in the backfield for screening out DS and holding objectives and a force of Skorpekh/Wraiths to assault the enemy lines, and I think that you might have a pretty good starting point for a list.

Unless codex changes I would just take more boats rather than warriors. 140 pts vs 120 pts, same amount of wounds, better T, quantum shield, fly, faster, same guns...why take warriors? RP is joke so no concern and 9th ed favours small units and solo models over 10 models anyway.

tneva82 wrote:

dethric wrote:
What about Warriors on a boat?
Drive 10 up to an midfield objective, put the boat in front of an objective, if charged, disembark behind and let the boat eat melee while the warriors holding the objective. Do this twice.
If an opponent puts something on an objective, do the same, charge in the boat, drop out behind and try to hold the objecitve.

If you can get a Warden close, the warriors will have a pretty good time. Combine this with ye olde DDA:s in the backfield for screening out DS and holding objectives and a force of Skorpekh/Wraiths to assault the enemy lines, and I think that you might have a pretty good starting point for a list.

Unless codex changes I would just take more boats rather than warriors. 140 pts vs 120 pts, same amount of wounds, better T, quantum shield, fly, faster, same guns...why take warriors? RP is joke so no concern and 9th ed favours small units and solo models over 10 models anyway.

We need to bring at least 3 troops for a battalion anyway though, and Immortals got expensive relative to the wounds they bring to the table.. they're gonna die to a stiff breeze as objective holders. Warriors go in the Arks and slap an extra ten wounds on the objective, that crucially can't be shot at until the ark is popped. I wouldn't go for more than three units, but since we need troops anyway, and we're bringing the Arks anyway, it seems like the simple answer.

I'm looking at not bringing any troops for that tax...And I would rather just have 2nd ark on the objective than 10 warriors. That's 20 tough wounds rather than 10 tough wounds and 10 wounds that are about as survivable as paper weight and is better in otherway around.

tneva82 wrote:
I'm looking at not bringing any troops for that tax...And I would rather just have 2nd ark on the objective than 10 warriors. That's 20 tough wounds rather than 10 tough wounds and 10 wounds that are about as survivable as paper weight and is better in otherway around.

14 wounds on a Ghost Ark fwiw.

You also need to have an infantry unit for each transport now, though that shouldn't be too much of an issue if you're bringing destroyers and characters. I still think ob sec is more valuable than you're implying.

Ob sec doesn't come into play with warriors inside ark either...

And 14W? Even better for ark then.

And yeah need infantry but enough of those in necrons. Can't afford THAT many arks anyway.

That strategy is going to force you to body block anything with ObSec from getting within 3" of an objective otherwise they'll just steal it from you.

 BroodSpawn wrote:
That strategy is going to force you to body block anything with ObSec from getting within 3" of an objective otherwise they'll just steal it from you.

yeah I'm not convinced, I think we need boots on the ground.

At any rate, I'm confident our troops are getting a big boost in the new book. So confident I've got 60 warriors to build this weekend lol.

2 phalanxes of 20 warriors and 2 Reanimators, to follow a phalanx each, is what I’m planning, along with a unit of Immortals as the 3rd troop choice. Dunno if it’s particularly affective, but it’s super cheap from the 2 Necron halves of the Indomitus set I’m getting

I wonder if 2 groups of 20 warriors , with reapers, and then using the deceiver to get into position is the way to take and hold midfield objectives.

 iGuy91 wrote:
I wonder if 2 groups of 20 warriors in ghost arks, with reapers, and then using the deceiver to get into position is the way to take and hold midfield objectives.

How are you putting twenty Warriors in an Ark?

 JNAProductions wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I wonder if 2 groups of 20 warriors in ghost arks, with reapers, and then using the deceiver to get into position is the way to take and hold midfield objectives.

How are you putting twenty Warriors in an Ark?

Copy/paste error, edited to correct.

 BroodSpawn wrote:
That strategy is going to force you to body block anything with ObSec from getting within 3" of an objective otherwise they'll just steal it from you.

Same issue is with ark loaded with warriors. Obsec inside transport doesn't count. At least with 2nd arc you have something to body block.

Obsec or lack of it has rarely been issue so far. You are more likely to be blown off objective. And warriors are about as durable as ants or wet paper tissue

Hi! I was thinking of playing the Indomitus necrons as Nephrekh. I think the movement it gives to even necron warriors will allow to contest objectives faster. Any thoughts on that. Also, which dinasty/ies do you guys think will benefit us more in the new edition? Or is Sautekh still the go to dynasty?

elgermen wrote:
Hi! I was thinking of playing the Indomitus necrons as Nephrekh. I think the movement it gives to even necron warriors will allow to contest objectives faster. Any thoughts on that. Also, which dinasty/ies do you guys think will benefit us more in the new edition? Or is Sautekh still the go to dynasty?

The dynasties are about to change, so I'd hold off on painting until the codex if you gonna paint as a specific dynasty (if homebrew then go nuts).

As things stand, I think Novokh and Nephrekh are the strongest.
Novokh: We got a load of new combat units, some old ones got buffed or dodged points hikes (scarabs and wraiths) and it's universally useful.
Nephrekh: Great for early board control. If you start a unit of wraiths next to an overlord, with Nephrekh they have a guarenteed move of 20-inches and can charge after with a strat. Other units can turbo out onto objectives turn one.

Sautekh lost a lot of what made it good (or more accurately, everyone got what made them good for free). Imotekh is still boss.
Nihilkah requires sitting still, which I don't love, but the strat is still excellent too.

Mephrit still meh for now, but that could easily change.

Thanks!

IanVanCheese wrote:

elgermen wrote:
Hi! I was thinking of playing the Indomitus necrons as Nephrekh. I think the movement it gives to even necron warriors will allow to contest objectives faster. Any thoughts on that. Also, which dinasty/ies do you guys think will benefit us more in the new edition? Or is Sautekh still the go to dynasty?

The dynasties are about to change, so I'd hold off on painting until the codex if you gonna paint as a specific dynasty (if homebrew then go nuts).

As things stand, I think Novokh and Nephrekh are the strongest.
Novokh: We got a load of new combat units, some old ones got buffed or dodged points hikes (scarabs and wraiths) and it's universally useful.
Nephrekh: Great for early board control. If you start a unit of wraiths next to an overlord, with Nephrekh they have a guarenteed move of 20-inches and can charge after with a strat. Other units can turbo out onto objectives turn one.

Sautekh lost a lot of what made it good (or more accurately, everyone got what made them good for free). Imotekh is still boss.
Nihilkah requires sitting still, which I don't love, but the strat is still excellent too.

Mephrit still meh for now, but that could easily change.

Note that Sautekh and Nephrek have comparable (as in, it is possible to compare: not identical) movement affecting buffs:

Nephrek with auto advance is stellar for early board control by giving an auto 6” advance (versus mean distribution of 3.5”)
Sautekh allow advancing units to treat their guns as assault, which diminishes the downside of advancing and thereby allows for early board control (though with -2.5” mean distribution movement).

Many of the maps place objectives 12” from our deployment zone, which with a 3” bubble means a unit needs to move 9” to claim/contest. Based on movement 5” for infantry:

Nephrek advance+move makes it guaranteed and then does not shoot.
Sautekh mean distribution advance+move distance has the potential to make it with MWBD and still shoots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, clarification:

I still prefer Nephrek, even based on this comparison. But depending on what’s doing the shooting, the Sautekh option is potentially a better “Going 2nd” advance+move dynasty.

sieGermans wrote:


Note that Sautekh and Nephrek have comparable (as in, it is possible to compare: not identical) movement affecting buffs:

Nephrek with auto advance is stellar for early board control by giving an auto 6” advance (versus mean distribution of 3.5”)
Sautekh allow advancing units to treat their guns as assault, which diminishes the downside of advancing and thereby allows for early board control (though with -2.5” mean distribution movement).

Many of the maps place objectives 12” from our deployment zone, which with a 3” bubble means a unit needs to move 9” to claim/contest. Based on movement 5” for infantry:

Nephrek advance+move makes it guaranteed and then does not shoot.
Sautekh mean distribution advance+move distance has the potential to make it with MWBD and still shoots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, clarification:

I still prefer Nephrek, even based on this comparison. But depending on what’s doing the shooting, the Sautekh option is potentially a better “Going 2nd” advance+move dynasty.

It depends on what you're running - if you're largely using tesla then they're already assault, so nephrekh is clear winner.

If you're spamming warriors or other gauss, then Sautekh might have some uses. As it stands, people are still mainly using tesla.

IanVanCheese wrote:

sieGermans wrote:


Note that Sautekh and Nephrek have comparable (as in, it is possible to compare: not identical) movement affecting buffs:

Nephrek with auto advance is stellar for early board control by giving an auto 6” advance (versus mean distribution of 3.5”)
Sautekh allow advancing units to treat their guns as assault, which diminishes the downside of advancing and thereby allows for early board control (though with -2.5” mean distribution movement).

Many of the maps place objectives 12” from our deployment zone, which with a 3” bubble means a unit needs to move 9” to claim/contest. Based on movement 5” for infantry:

Nephrek advance+move makes it guaranteed and then does not shoot.
Sautekh mean distribution advance+move distance has the potential to make it with MWBD and still shoots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, clarification:

I still prefer Nephrek, even based on this comparison. But depending on what’s doing the shooting, the Sautekh option is potentially a better “Going 2nd” advance+move dynasty.

It depends on what you're running - if you're largely using tesla then they're already assault, so nephrekh is clear winner.

If you're spamming warriors or other gauss, then Sautekh might have some uses. As it stands, people are still mainly using tesla.

Aye, agreed. Though what's doing the shooting may recursively revert back to what you bring based on which Dynasty you're utilising. I.E., it may be that you opt/prefer to run Gauss Blasters/Flayers for more hardened targets camping an objective (which makes sense in terms of what your opponent is most likely to use to undertake such camping).

Nephrek gauss reaper warriors seem the obvious winner here: best of both.

 DogHeadGod wrote:
Nephrek gauss reaper warriors seem the obvious winner here: best of both.

Uh reaper is pretty bad weapon for nephrek. You advance, you ain't shooting with your rapid fire weapon. Nephrek don't want rapid fire guns.

The only viable stratagey I've seen to get the most out of reapers is to use a ghosr ark or night scythe to get them up the board.
Nephrekh means you sacrifice a turn shooting Sautekh gives you a threat range of 19"+d6 which is OK but still 1 shot as you'll be assault 1

Err... reaper is assault2 s5 ap2 14"d1 last I saw. Unless I got the name wrong... but that is *perfect* for Nephrek board push vs Primaris.

Edit: Ah. I must have been remembering an old leak. Rapid1 on the reaper is sadface.

 DogHeadGod wrote:
Err... reaper is assault2 s5 ap2 14"d1 last I saw. Unless I got the name wrong... but that is *perfect* for Nephrek board push vs Primaris.

I thought it was RF1?

Yeah,the reaper is RF1.
Tesla Carbine is Assault 2

*nod* Old leak said ass2 on reaper as well, and I didn't check it when the page leaks came out. Too bad... assault2 reaper would have been of significant use. Rapid1 at 7" is just laughable.

Yup, the majority of the fake leaks weren't great, but i really wish the reaper was assault 2 as 14" assault 2 is more viable then what we've got now.

Maybe if nobody uses them they'll errata the range or shot type

I'm actually not that surprised they decided to go with RF1. Design wise they look like gauss blasters, so they probably thought that they should be RF1 too.

I think they could work at RF1, you just have to be really aggressive with them. I feel like you want to field a full squad of them in order to get the most mileage.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm actually not that surprised they decided to go with RF1. Design wise they look like gauss blasters, so they probably thought that they should be RF1 too.

I think they could work at RF1, you just have to be really aggressive with them. I feel like you want to field a full squad of them in order to get the most mileage.

The biggest issue I have with the reapers is how much worse they make Immortal Gauss Blasters by comparison. Whilst I appreciate that the 5” range difference for double tap is relevant in a vacuum, with the new mission types and board sizes, I think middle board ruckuses will be far more likely.

So the real difference is whether 3+ v. 4+ is worth the 6pt. Difference per model.

sieGermans wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm actually not that surprised they decided to go with RF1. Design wise they look like gauss blasters, so they probably thought that they should be RF1 too.

I think they could work at RF1, you just have to be really aggressive with them. I feel like you want to field a full squad of them in order to get the most mileage.

The biggest issue I have with the reapers is how much worse they make Immortal Gauss Blasters by comparison. Whilst I appreciate that the 5” range difference for double tap is relevant in a vacuum, with the new mission types and board sizes, I think middle board ruckuses will be far more likely.

So the real difference is whether 3+ v. 4+ is worth the 6pt. Difference per model.

I expect Guass Blasters will become RF2

Then the "Relic/Master Crafted" version gains 2D

 IHateNids wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm actually not that surprised they decided to go with RF1. Design wise they look like gauss blasters, so they probably thought that they should be RF1 too.

I think they could work at RF1, you just have to be really aggressive with them. I feel like you want to field a full squad of them in order to get the most mileage.

The biggest issue I have with the reapers is how much worse they make Immortal Gauss Blasters by comparison. Whilst I appreciate that the 5” range difference for double tap is relevant in a vacuum, with the new mission types and board sizes, I think middle board ruckuses will be far more likely.

So the real difference is whether 3+ v. 4+ is worth the 6pt. Difference per model.

I expect Guass Blasters will become RF2

Then the "Relic/Master Crafted" version gains 2D

Now of that happened I would be very curious about tesla for Immortals and tomb blades.

It would make gauss better in my opinion against most targets

Tesla might get slightly longer range, like 30" maybe

At least, that maks sense to me, but then again, how much can we actually get before A - it becomes overpowered, and B - "but muh Intercessors"

Unless I'm blind, Canoptek Spyders aren't in the field guide -- their wargear options are, but not the unit itself.

Surely an error (wow surprise) and I can't imagine they went up in cost anyways.

Someone pulled a CSI-Enhancement and transcribed the new Dynasty Codes (Protocols?)

MEPHRIT: SOLAR FURY

Add 3" to the range characteristic of ranged weapons(excluding something [pistols?]) that models with this code are equipped with.

Each time a model with this code makes a ranged attack that targets a model within half range, the armour penetration characteristic of that attack is improved by 1.

When the protocol of the vengeful stars is used you get both command protocols instead of one.

NOVOKH: AWAKENED BY MURDER

Add 1" to charge rolls made for units with this code.

Each time a model with this code makes a melee attack, if the model has made a charge move, was charged, or performed a heroic intervention this turn, improve the armour penetration characteristic of this attack by 1.

When the protocol of the hungry void is used you get both command protocols instead of one.

NEPHREKH: TRANSLOCATION BEAMS

Models with this code have a 6+ invulnerable save.

Each time a unit with this code advances, it can translocate. If it does, do not make an advance roll for it. Instead, until the end of tthe phase, add 6" to the move characteristic of the models in that unit. If a model translocated, until the end of the turn, models in that unit cannot shoot. Each time a unit with this code falls back or translocates, until the end of the phase, models in that unit can move over models and terrain as if they were not there.

When the protocol of the sudden storm is used you get both command protocols instead of one.

NIHILAKH: AGGRESSIVELY TERRITORIAL

Units with this code have the objective secured ability as in the core book. If a model in such a unit already has this ability, that model counts as one additional model when determining control of an objective marker.

Each time an attack with an armour penetration characteristic of -1 is allocated to a model with this code, if that model's unit is wholly within its controller's deployment zone, that attack has an armour penetration characteristic of 0 instead.

When the protocol of the eternal guardian is used you get both command protocols instead of one.

SZAREKHAN: UNCANNY ARTIFICERS

Each time a model with this code would take a wound as the result of a mortal wound, roll one D6, on a 5+ that wound is ignored.

Each time a unit with this code is selected to shoot or fight, you can re-roll one wound roll when making that unit's attacks.

When the protocol of the undying legions is used you get both command protocols instead of one.

SAUTEKH: RELENTLESS ADVANCE

Each time a morale test is taken for a unit with this code, you can re-roll that test.

Instead of following the normal rules for rapid fire weapons, models with this code shooting rapid-fire weapons make double the number of attacks if the shooting model's target is within 18".

When the protocol of the conquering tyrant is used you get both command protocols instead of one.

Mephrit + deceiver + 2/3 necron warrior units with reaper, can be so fething insane… 80/120 shoots F5 -3 D1.

on the other hand, sutekh can be very Good, but you must go full rapid-fire to make it worth it.

 Khorzain wrote:


NIHILAKH: AGGRESSIVELY TERRITORIAL

Units with this code have the objective secured ability as in the core book. If a model in such a unit already has this ability, that model counts as one additional model when determining control of an objective marker.

Each time an attack with an armour penetration characteristic of -1 is allocated to a model with this code, if that model's unit is wholly within its controller's deployment zone, that attack has an armour penetration characteristic of 0 instead.

When the protocol of the eternal guardian is used you get both command protocols instead of one.

Objective secured Wraiths.
Objective secured Lynchguard.
Objective secured Scarabs.
Objective secured Vehicles?

Mother of god.

Interesting to see what the command protocols are.

2++ Shieldguard with the new objective based mission set of 9th sounds and (possibly) improved RP sounds kinda OP I'm not gonna lie.

Still love it though if it turns out to be true.

 Khorzain wrote:
Someone pulled a CSI-Enhancement and transcribed the new Dynasty Codes (Protocols?)

MEPHRIT: SOLAR FURY

Add 3" to the range characteristic of ranged weapons(excluding something [pistols?]) that models with this code are equipped with.

Each time a model with this code makes a ranged attack that targets a model within half range, the armour penetration characteristic of that attack is improved by 1.

When the protocol of the vengeful stars is used you get both command protocols instead of one.

NOVOKH: AWAKENED BY MURDER

Add 1" to charge rolls made for units with this code.

Each time a model with this code makes a melee attack, if the model has made a charge move, was charged, or performed a heroic intervention this turn, improve the armour penetration characteristic of this attack by 1.

When the protocol of the hungry void is used you get both command protocols instead of one.

NEPHREKH: TRANSLOCATION BEAMS

Models with this code have a 6+ invulnerable save.

Each time a unit with this code advances, it can translocate. If it does, do not make an advance roll for it. Instead, until the end of tthe phase, add 6" to the move characteristic of the models in that unit. If a model translocated, until the end of the turn, models in that unit cannot shoot. Each time a unit with this code falls back or translocates, until the end of the phase, models in that unit can move over models and terrain as if they were not there.

When the protocol of the sudden storm is used you get both command protocols instead of one.

NIHILAKH: AGGRESSIVELY TERRITORIAL

Units with this code have the objective secured ability as in the core book. If a model in such a unit already has this ability, that model counts as one additional model when determining control of an objective marker.

Each time an attack with an armour penetration characteristic of -1 is allocated to a model with this code, if that model's unit is wholly within its controller's deployment zone, that attack has an armour penetration characteristic of 0 instead.

When the protocol of the eternal guardian is used you get both command protocols instead of one.

SZAREKHAN: UNCANNY ARTIFICERS

Each time a model with this code would take a wound as the result of a mortal wound, roll one D6, on a 5+ that wound is ignored.

Each time a unit with this code is selected to shoot or fight, you can re-roll one wound roll when making that unit's attacks.

When the protocol of the undying legions is used you get both command protocols instead of one.

SAUTEKH: RELENTLESS ADVANCE

Each time a morale test is taken for a unit with this code, you can re-roll that test.

Instead of following the normal rules for rapid fire weapons, models with this code shooting rapid-fire weapons make double the number of attacks if the shooting model's target is within 18".

When the protocol of the conquering tyrant is used you get both command protocols instead of one.

Mmm that's the good stuff. All looks good, some stronger than others. Szerakan probablt weakest, but still not terrible.

Sautekh seems very strong. Wording to me suggests that Reapers basically always get 2 shots (I doubt they magically jump to 18" range, but they'd just always get two shots at 14". Also Gauss Blaster Immortals could be very interesting in Sautekh, not to mention Ghost Arks getting to rapid fire flayer arrays at 18".

Nihilakh could be gross. Ob Sec scarabs and wraiths is just so good, and shrugging AP-1 in deployment zone is cool for our fire support units.

Novokh is good, better chance of making charge beats being better in combat imo, and the AP-1 really buffs some units (scarabs continue to be the MVP, good lord they good as Novokh).

Mephrit looks tasty too, especially in conjunction with Deceiver. You can lay some real hurt down.

Nephrek looks OK, probably on the weaker side. 6++ is nice, and auto advance 6 is great for board control, but not being able to shoot even with assault weapons is a bummer. Good for swarming the board though, and great for combat units who don't care much about the extra AP (Skorpekhs etc).

Szerekahn is fine. Ignore MWs is situational, but decent. Reroll 1 wound roll per unit is the new version of salamander rerolls (their version got nerfed too). I guess GW saw how overpowered/popular it was vs other traits, especially in build custom dynasty stuff. Also we had custom dynasty traits confirmed in the article, so chance to build combos of these is potentially very spicy.

Very happy overall. Extremely interested to see what these command protocols are.

Right now Nihiliakh seems like the clear strongest Dynasty. Obj Secured on everything is absurdly strong, and doubling it for troops is really good. The Ap -1 to 0 in your table quarters side is just a bonus.

Nephrekh is second to me. It's very fast and we know that getting onto those objectives as soon as possible is paramount. You can also move through models when you fall back as well, which is great. The 6++ is nice to have on our vehicles.

Novokh seems pretty good, The extra 1' charge and the extra AP first time in combat seems pretty good, though I'm not sure if that's better than the rerolls.

Mephrit is not bad, but the extra 3' is really only relevant for Gauss Reapers, and the extra ap at half range as we know now is not all that great.

Sautekh really only affects a few weapons, I'm a bit disappointed in it. These weapons may become super relevant depending on the meta shakes out though, so it may end up being stronger. Especially if Ghost Arks become a thing. Szerakean is a little bit better since the wound roll is on a per unit basis making it pretty good for some of our vehicles. That can add up over the course of a game. The Mortal wound protection is either going to be very relevant or not. So this dynasty is a bit of a miss.


Now, this could all change when the protocols are introduced, but it at least feels like these dynasties support different kinds of play much better than they did before.

Depending on how many point's they are per model Novokh flayed ones could be really powerful on a charge

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
Depending on how many point's they are per model Novokh flayed ones could be really powerful on a charge

Yeah, hoping for new models.

Honestly, I love these new dynasty traits. Like the Sisters Orders, they all promote a style of play rather than there just being one really good one.

I'm excited to test four of these at least, and the other two still aren't too bad.

October is so far away though.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:
Depending on how many point's they are per model Novokh flayed ones could be really powerful on a charge

Yeah, hoping for new models.

Honestly, I love these new dynasty traits. Like the Sisters Orders, they all promote a style of play rather than there just being one really good one.

I'm excited to test four of these at least, and the other two still aren't too bad.

October is so far away though.

Yeah the October date suprised me. I expected the new codex to start rolling out late August early September. They did say they are going to showcase new models between now and the codex releases so hopefully nee flayed ones between now and then

Nihilakh is going to be fantastic. Vehicle, Wraiths, Destroyers, TombBlades, all with obsec.

Swarms are max 3 models in a unit... big nerf!
All new models in the box, except warriors are max 3...

Krull wrote:
Swarms are max 3 models in a unit... big nerf!
All new models in the box, except warriors are max 3...

Can I get a source for this?

The Edge of Silence book has the Scarab datasheet listed as 3-6 per unit.

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

Krull wrote:
Swarms are max 3 models in a unit... big nerf!
All new models in the box, except warriors are max 3...

Can I get a source for this?

The Edge of Silence book has the Scarab datasheet listed as 3-6 per unit.

Its cause 3 were showcased in the new box so for some reason people seem to think the unit size got nerfed to 3.

But 6 is still a nerf as pretty sure scarabs used to be 9

Claas wrote:
Nihilakh is going to be fantastic. Vehicle, Wraiths, Destroyers, TombBlades, all with obsec.

The more I think about Nihilakh the stronger it seems in 9th. Having Objective secured on the entire army is really going to mean most opponents are going to have to completely exterminate your forces to drive you off an objective. Even outside of the tough hard to shift elite, fast attack and heavy support choices, just having objective secured on random characters or support units is going to steal objectives.

Their's not really any compelling need to bother with any troops choices in a Nihilakh list. Pay a few CP extra and just run spearheads, vanguard, outriders and run the best toughest units in the entire codex.

Asymmetric wrote:

Claas wrote:
Nihilakh is going to be fantastic. Vehicle, Wraiths, Destroyers, TombBlades, all with obsec.

The more I think about Nihilakh the stronger it seems in 9th. Having Objective secured on the entire army is really going to mean most opponents are going to have to completely exterminate your forces to drive you off an objective. Even outside of the tough hard to shift elite, fast attack and heavy support choices, just having objective secured on random characters or support units is going to steal objectives.

Their's not really any compelling need to bother with any troops choices in a Nihilakh list. Pay a few CP extra and just run spearheads, vanguard, outriders and run the best toughest units in the entire codex.

Having everything Obsec also allow you to target opponent troop choice to deny him objectives unless he clears you totally from them. Some armies don't play a lot of troops, with minimal tax units, and will suffer to take objectives from a Nihilakh list.
Obsec Scarabs seems too good to be true though.

Debating what dynasty to go with for crusade league starting september. Unless i want to dump all experience points etc i can"t switch dynasty midway so have　inconvenience of using old codex for start, then　switch codex

So far been using nephrekh but new one doesn't appeal. Looking at either nihilikh as obsec or mephir for aggressive damage dealing which is something　i rarely have　used. It's also more appealing than　static nihilikh.

Where　to go, where　to go

So, bought indomitus and subscribed to the app, and it seems that this does not give me access to the points costs of the indomitus units?!

Bit daft.

I'm doing an indomitus game against the guy I split the box with and I'd like to know the points cost of my army!

What do people think is the best dynasty for this?

The specific benefit of having Obsec on everything, as some have alluded to with Wraiths in general, is that you get to have an opportunity force your opponent to be inefficient with their selective fire.

E.G., align your forces so they have to use the wrong kind of gun on the wrong kind of target. Importantly, this doesn't necessarily mean that "Obsec Wraiths" are the only way this plays out (although Wraiths are pretty universally resilient). It can mean forcing your opponent to shoot high damage guns at QS targets, or firing low AP guns at 2+ saves, or firing low accuracy guns at -1 to hit targets, etc. etc.

The benefit of this Dynasty (And I'm not saying it's the best one) is how [with an admittedly high skill cap] you can bully your opponent with it tactically--rather than looking for one-off universal/combo builds.

My original plan of one Patrol + one Outrider looks even better with the new Nihilakh.

Last remaining questions are, what is going to happen to regular Destroyers, and will Extermination Protocols exist in the new codex? Wait three months to find out... booooo.

I kinda like the idea of getting 3 months of Old Codex + 9th Ed. It'll be fun to see our familiar unit rules playing out in a new environment.

If we just went straight into New Codex + 9th Ed., we'd have too many confounding variables.

I hope the Szarekhan dynasty can do alright, it’s the one I’ve been repainting my Necrons as.

No one knows our colors really so you can run them as whatever dynasty.

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

Krull wrote:
Swarms are max 3 models in a unit... big nerf!
All new models in the box, except warriors are max 3...

Can I get a source for this?

The Edge of Silence book has the Scarab datasheet listed as 3-6 per unit.

Its cause 3 were showcased in the new box so for some reason people seem to think the unit size got nerfed to 3.

But 6 is still a nerf as pretty sure scarabs used to be 9

I don't make things up. I base myself on this picture i got.
I do hope this is wrong though.

Krull wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

Krull wrote:
Swarms are max 3 models in a unit... big nerf!
All new models in the box, except warriors are max 3...

Can I get a source for this?

The Edge of Silence book has the Scarab datasheet listed as 3-6 per unit.

Its cause 3 were showcased in the new box so for some reason people seem to think the unit size got nerfed to 3.

But 6 is still a nerf as pretty sure scarabs used to be 9

I don't make things up. I base myself on this picture i got.
I do hope this is wrong though.

Aah fair enough sorry about that. Didn't even know this got released, although why does it include Lokhust heavy destroyers?

Set of 3 scarabs would be pretty poor IMO and im hoping the codex changes that as I cant see myself using scarabs in such a small unit

Edit: also the space marine list is very confusing as well, it includes the other leaked units for them?? So we get points but no stats, where is this picture from?

I have Indomitus. The rule pamphlet clearly says units of up to 6.

Yeah it's 3-6 in Indomitus. Almost certainly still going to be 3-9 in the codex.

I'm still playing them as 3-9 in my games as I'm not doing any tournaments between now and the new codex anyway.

How's people getting on with Indomitus? My fingers and thumbs are killing me from all these push fit models lol. Stunning sculpts though.

I almost snapped the pincer arm off the reanimator when I was cleaning it with a knife. You need to hold the pieces VERY close to where you are cleaning. Super fragile model. That said, man it's beautiful. It has so many small details that I didn't notice before. The new sculpts are like going to HD from SD.

On scarabs: the munitorum manual lists their unit size as 3-9 in the Necrons section and flat 3 in the Indomitus section. Contradictory information in the same book, say it ain't so!

ryzouken wrote:
On scarabs: the munitorum manual lists their unit size as 3-9 in the Necrons section and flat 3 in the Indomitus section. Contradictory information in the same book, say it ain't so!

My book savs 3-6.

However one can arque they are different datasheets. Like with overlord the mwbd and aura things don't apply to overlord in codex with options.

I feel like Immortals should have 2 wounds each. Or T5

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I feel like Immortals should have 2 wounds each. Or T5

Yeah, they need something to reflect they're namesake rather then just a slightly higher save

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

Krull wrote:

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

 Mixzremixzd wrote:

Krull wrote:
Swarms are max 3 models in a unit... big nerf!
All new models in the box, except warriors are max 3...

Can I get a source for this?

The Edge of Silence book has the Scarab datasheet listed as 3-6 per unit.

Its cause 3 were showcased in the new box so for some reason people seem to think the unit size got nerfed to 3.

But 6 is still a nerf as pretty sure scarabs used to be 9

I don't make things up. I base myself on this picture i got.
I do hope this is wrong though.

Aah fair enough sorry about that. Didn't even know this got released, although why does it include Lokhust heavy destroyers?

Set of 3 scarabs would be pretty poor IMO and im hoping the codex changes that as I cant see myself using scarabs in such a small unit

Edit: also the space marine list is very confusing as well, it includes the other leaked units for them?? So we get points but no stats, where is this picture from?

Its a print screen from the chapter approved book.

Given that the codex isn't out until October, I think it's a safe bet that the Doomstalker and Lokhust Destroyer are coming out before then. That's why they have points listed in the Indomitus section - they needed to put them somewhere.

My fingers are killing me, but I have finally assembled one Indomitus Necron set. Just another full one to go, and then 20 more warriors on top of that. Pray for me, and my poor fingers/thumbs.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Given that the codex isn't out until October, I think it's a safe bet that the Doomstalker and Lokhust Destroyer are coming out before then. That's why they have points listed in the Indomitus section - they needed to put them somewhere.

My fingers are killing me, but I have finally assembled one Indomitus Necron set. Just another full one to go, and then 20 more warriors on top of that. Pray for me, and my poor fingers/thumbs.

Oh, boy, am I feeling this pain....

And honestly, knowing how finicky the easy-build Reanimator was, I am bricking it in relation to building one of the Doomstalkers... That's gonna be painful

The whole set has that "I hope that I don't snap this model in half when I try to push in this peg flush" vibe.

 Aza'Gorod wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I feel like Immortals should have 2 wounds each. Or T5

Yeah, they need something to reflect they're namesake rather then just a slightly higher save

They used to be T5 with the 3+ back when AP was different.

so if im reading the reanimator right if there are multiple reanimators i can bump RP rolls from a 5+ to a 3+ if i had two target the same unit? Or am I missing something obvious that makes it so it doesn't stack?

Yeah I’ve had the pain of building a Necron half of an Indomitus set and will be painting it all before I build the other half I got haha. I don’t think I can stand building all those warriors again.

Oberron wrote:
so if im reading the reanimator right if there are multiple reanimators i can bump RP rolls from a 5+ to a 3+ if i had two target the same unit? Or am I missing something obvious that makes it so it doesn't stack?

hmm. For aura's there's flat out prevention in core rules. But this isn't aura.

tneva82 wrote:

Oberron wrote:
so if im reading the reanimator right if there are multiple reanimators i can bump RP rolls from a 5+ to a 3+ if i had two target the same unit? Or am I missing something obvious that makes it so it doesn't stack?

hmm. For aura's there's flat out prevention in core rules. But this isn't aura.

I'm pretty sure the same ability can't stack twice. Even if they forgot to add that into the new rule book, it's almost certainly RAI. You can still get a 3+ reanimate with cryptek and reanimator (2+ with orb of eternity). I watched the Tabletop Titans Indomitus game and he had a single warrior left, brought back basically the whole squad (was in a building so he could fit them all by using higher). levels too.

Yeah, I'm painting this first lot before I build anymore, my poor hands need a break.

I actually think Mephrit might end up being worth a second look. I think the addition of the Skorpehk line of models isn't going to make us all that much stronger in melee. I think melee is still going to be a trap for us.

 iGuy91 wrote:
I actually think Mephrit might end up being worth a second look. I think the addition of the Skorpehk line of models isn't going to make us all that much stronger in melee. I think melee is still going to be a trap for us.

Yeah I agree, unless Novokh has some super buff we aren't awesome at melee.

I think that we actually have decent melee which people don't expect as when you think if necrons you think gauss etc so its good to take 1 unit of heavy hitting melee units. but we can never go toe to toe with a melee focused army

IanVanCheese wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Oberron wrote:
so if im reading the reanimator right if there are multiple reanimators i can bump RP rolls from a 5+ to a 3+ if i had two target the same unit? Or am I missing something obvious that makes it so it doesn't stack?

hmm. For aura's there's flat out prevention in core rules. But this isn't aura.

I'm pretty sure the same ability can't stack twice. Even if they forgot to add that into the new rule book, it's almost certainly RAI. You can still get a 3+ reanimate with cryptek and reanimator (2+ with orb of eternity). I watched the Tabletop Titans Indomitus game and he had a single warrior left, brought back basically the whole squad (was in a building so he could fit them all by using higher). levels too.

Yeah, I'm painting this first lot before I build anymore, my poor hands need a break.

If you can find rule please tell me. I'm not memorizing everything. I went through the one on online by GW and it only denied multiple aura of same name.

Any thoughts on running a pair of Cryptothralls with Szeras? It would certainly improve his survivability...or does it just make him even more of a target?

tneva82 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Oberron wrote:
so if im reading the reanimator right if there are multiple reanimators i can bump RP rolls from a 5+ to a 3+ if i had two target the same unit? Or am I missing something obvious that makes it so it doesn't stack?

hmm. For aura's there's flat out prevention in core rules. But this isn't aura.

I'm pretty sure the same ability can't stack twice. Even if they forgot to add that into the new rule book, it's almost certainly RAI. You can still get a 3+ reanimate with cryptek and reanimator (2+ with orb of eternity). I watched the Tabletop Titans Indomitus game and he had a single warrior left, brought back basically the whole squad (was in a building so he could fit them all by using higher). levels too.

Yeah, I'm painting this first lot before I build anymore, my poor hands need a break.

If you can find rule please tell me. I'm not memorizing everything. I went through the one on online by GW and it only denied multiple aura of same name.

Well the rule is normally attached to the aura itself in the wording along the lines of " x benefit along as unit Y is near a model with <this aura>"

Look at the overlord's MWBD ability. It specifically says a unit can't be targeted more than once by it but no such line is on the reanimated. If this turns into a big deal ill post in ymdc but it was something I thought could be useful yo point out.

Thoughts on running a triple Plasmancer list?
Make one warlord with a Lightening Felid and Thrall of the Silent King to range boost everything.
Trying to figure out what else to run alongside them, 6 mudrer buckets, Scarabs, and Wariths?
Run Novokh.

Or go totally different for a new style army to go with the big refresh?

 Blndmage wrote:
Thoughts on running a triple Plasmancer list?
Make one warlord with a Lightening Felid and Thrall of the Silent King to range boost everything.
Trying to figure out what else to run alongside them, 6 mudrer buckets, Scarabs, and Wariths?
Run Novokh.

Or go totally different for a new style army to go with the big refresh?

Anything that can lock things up basically forever and then watch the plasmancers zap things while holding objectives and eat popcorn

What guns do I put on my indomitus warriors?

IanVanCheese wrote:
Given that the codex isn't out until October, I think it's a safe bet that the Doomstalker and Lokhust Destroyer are coming out before then. That's why they have points listed in the Indomitus section - they needed to put them somewhere.

Not necessarily, I had heard a rumor (forget where) that those units where planned for indomitus but were cut in order to make the price more appealing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Neknoh wrote:
What guns do I put on my indomitus warriors?

I have 40 old school warriors already, so I am going for the gauss reapers. I also like the look of sautehk still. Being able to rapid fire the reapers at full range as well as gauss blasters on my tomb blades and immortals up to 18" is going to be nasty. It also makes the flayer arrays better now that they won't want to get very close since you cannot rely on fall back and shoot from fly and need the warden.

So got to play first game of 9th. I had indominatus overlord, skorpek lord, 2x10 immortals, 10 reaper warriors, nightbringer, heat ray stalker, doomsday ark, 3 destroyers, 3 scarabs. 1500 pts.

Got penned to my quarter by fabius's creations with tons of jump packs(19"+charge talons etc), venom crawlers(I hate those buggers), maulerfiend, bunch of fast hard hitting solo models etc. Probably should have sent scarabs to center objective to get 3 vp's and maybe roadblock his big walker character.

Triarch stalker was damn awesome. Got to get more of these once SOMEBODY sells them for sensible prices. 100£+ for painted one is not feasible for me.

Infantry sucked but maybe misused them a bit. Though was hard to stay away range of those talons if I don't want to just hunker at my quarter. Other immortal unit and warriors got locked to venom crawler charges, kill 2-3 immortal, I fall back, reapers shoot, repeat. My infantry kept coming back, he kept regenerating, nobody made any progress except his thin their ranks tally counter.

Need fast tough objective holders. Nihilikh wraiths sounds like just the thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW I have 10 lychguard with shields. Thinking of adding warscythe unit as well(one of the few things I can buy...). How do they work in 9th ed in your opinion?

How are Triarch Praetorians looking in 9th?

Also, am I right in thinking that there's no cost or downside to just taking Particle Casters on every Wraith now?

tneva82 wrote:

Triarch stalker was damn awesome. Got to get more of these once SOMEBODY sells them for sensible prices. 100£+ for painted one is not feasible for me.

I don't know how practical this is for you, but a while back I had a go at converting a Triarch Stalker out of an Annihilation Barge and a lot of Tyranid bits:



Partially I was messing around with the idea of a bio-mechanical army, and partially I just enjoy creating random crap like this. The pictures above are fairly old (painting was and still is WIP), and I've been trying since to merge the paint-schemes more so that there isn't such a contrast between the Tyranid and Necron bits. Hopefully you get the idea, though.

 vipoid wrote:
How are Triarch Praetorians looking in 9th?

Also, am I right in thinking that there's no cost or downside to just taking Particle Casters on every Wraith now?

I don't know how practical this is for you, but a while back I had a go at converting a Triarch Stalker out of an Annihilation Barge and a lot of Tyranid bits:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I actually think Mephrit might end up being worth a second look. I think the addition of the Skorpehk line of models isn't going to make us all that much stronger in melee. I think melee is still going to be a trap for us.

I think you're right...to a point. Mephrit and Suatekh both look pretty good in the new Codex, though we have no idea what the new protocol rules are. For melee, I think 9th is going to require some melee threats in most armies because you're going to need to remove enemies from objectives and threaten charges to lock things up/slow them down. I think Skorpekhs are pretty good for that as they're tough and dangerous to a wide range of tough enemies. I think you're right that you don't want to go overboard though. Necrons can't compete with the actual close combat armies out there but we can take a couple of surprisingly good units to help round out our army.

tneva82 wrote:
Triarch stalker was damn awesome. Got to get more of these once SOMEBODY sells them for sensible prices. 100£+ for painted one is not feasible for me.

I done told you all lol.

I'm waiting for the codex before I invest in more, they may get dunked back into oblivion but for now they're fantastic for their points.

As to melee being a trap, kinda, but no. Melee as a charge up the board and eat everything is a trap, but having significant melee threats to counter charge while you hold the midboard is going to be key I think. Considering that 3 Skorpekhs will ruin most peoples days and only cost 120pts, having a unit or two of them hiding behind cover near the mid-board is a pretty great deterant towards people coming near the rest of your stuff.

Yeah the Triarch Stalker is great now, for sure. The Heat Ray is actually viable now, and it's fantastic at clearing out objectives when needed.

Frankly the Heat Ray was viable before, but it wasn't as needed. Either way, no longer getting -1 to hit is a huge buff.

Here is my attempt at a decent list made mostly out of my 2 halves of the Indomitus box.



Criticism welcome but like I said this is a mostly casual list made of of Indomitus.

pawa24 wrote:
Here is my attempt at a decent list made mostly out of my 2 halves of the Indomitus box.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Necrons) [99 PL, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Dynasty Choice
. Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Illuminor Szeras [7 PL, 145pts]

Overlord (Indomitus) [5 PL, 90pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Warlord

Plasmancer [4 PL, 80pts]

+ Troops +

Immortals [4 PL, 90pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [4 PL, 90pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Necron Warriors [10 PL, 240pts]
. 20x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer): 20x Gauss Flayer

Necron Warriors [10 PL, 240pts]
. 20x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer): 20x Gauss Flayer

+ Elites +

Canoptek Reanimator [5 PL, 110pts]

Skorpekh Destroyers [7 PL, 135pts]: Plasmacyte, Skorpekh Destroyer (Reap-Blade)
. 2x Skorpekh Destroyer (Thresher): 2x Hyperphase Threshers

Skorpekh Destroyers [7 PL, 135pts]: Plasmacyte, Skorpekh Destroyer (Reap-Blade)
. 2x Skorpekh Destroyer (Thresher): 2x Hyperphase Threshers

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarab Swarms [2 PL, 45pts]
. 3x Scarab Swarms: 3x Feeder Mandibles

Canoptek Wraiths [9 PL, 135pts]
. 3x Canoptek Wraith (Particle Caster): 3x Particle Caster, 3x Vicious Claws

Tomb Blades [5 PL, 105pts]
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope
. . Two Tesla Carbines
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope
. . Two Tesla Carbines
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope
. . Two Tesla Carbines

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 180pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 180pts]

++ Total: [99 PL, 2,000pts] ++

Criticism welcome but like I said this is a mostly casual list made of of Indomitus.

Main thing I'd say is drop the plasmacytes. With 3 man units, the maths is less favourable. With a bigger squad, losing a Destroyer is less of a hit, and if you have a full 6-man squad then you still get more attacks than if you hadn't popped the plasmacyte even if one dies. It's just not worth the risk in three man units.

Other main thing, bring more scarabs. You have two sets, so 12 bases. You should be bringing 12 bases. They're pound for pound the best unit in our book. I'd scrap the tomb blades and plasmacytes, and spend all those points on scarabs. Looks fine otherwise.

IanVanCheese wrote:

pawa24 wrote:
Here is my attempt at a decent list made mostly out of my 2 halves of the Indomitus box.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Necrons) [99 PL, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Dynasty Choice
. Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Illuminor Szeras [7 PL, 145pts]

Overlord (Indomitus) [5 PL, 90pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Warlord

Plasmancer [4 PL, 80pts]

+ Troops +

Immortals [4 PL, 90pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [4 PL, 90pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Necron Warriors [10 PL, 240pts]
. 20x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer): 20x Gauss Flayer

Necron Warriors [10 PL, 240pts]
. 20x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer): 20x Gauss Flayer

+ Elites +

Canoptek Reanimator [5 PL, 110pts]

Skorpekh Destroyers [7 PL, 135pts]: Plasmacyte, Skorpekh Destroyer (Reap-Blade)
. 2x Skorpekh Destroyer (Thresher): 2x Hyperphase Threshers

Skorpekh Destroyers [7 PL, 135pts]: Plasmacyte, Skorpekh Destroyer (Reap-Blade)
. 2x Skorpekh Destroyer (Thresher): 2x Hyperphase Threshers

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarab Swarms [2 PL, 45pts]
. 3x Scarab Swarms: 3x Feeder Mandibles

Canoptek Wraiths [9 PL, 135pts]
. 3x Canoptek Wraith (Particle Caster): 3x Particle Caster, 3x Vicious Claws

Tomb Blades [5 PL, 105pts]
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope
. . Two Tesla Carbines
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope
. . Two Tesla Carbines
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope
. . Two Tesla Carbines

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 180pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 180pts]

++ Total: [99 PL, 2,000pts] ++

Criticism welcome but like I said this is a mostly casual list made of of Indomitus.

Main thing I'd say is drop the plasmacytes. With 3 man units, the maths is less favourable. With a bigger squad, losing a Destroyer is less of a hit, and if you have a full 6-man squad then you still get more attacks than if you hadn't popped the plasmacyte even if one dies. It's just not worth the risk in three man units.

Other main thing, bring more scarabs. You have two sets, so 12 bases. You should be bringing 12 bases. They're pound for pound the best unit in our book. I'd scrap the tomb blades and plasmacytes, and spend all those points on scarabs. Looks fine otherwise.

You don't have to use the plasmacytes ability though. It could just be 15 points to tank a lascannon or thunderhammer.

weaver9 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

pawa24 wrote:
Here is my attempt at a decent list made mostly out of my 2 halves of the Indomitus box.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Necrons) [99 PL, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Dynasty Choice
. Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Illuminor Szeras [7 PL, 145pts]

Overlord (Indomitus) [5 PL, 90pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Warlord

Plasmancer [4 PL, 80pts]

+ Troops +

Immortals [4 PL, 90pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [4 PL, 90pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Necron Warriors [10 PL, 240pts]
. 20x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer): 20x Gauss Flayer

Necron Warriors [10 PL, 240pts]
. 20x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer): 20x Gauss Flayer

+ Elites +

Canoptek Reanimator [5 PL, 110pts]

Skorpekh Destroyers [7 PL, 135pts]: Plasmacyte, Skorpekh Destroyer (Reap-Blade)
. 2x Skorpekh Destroyer (Thresher): 2x Hyperphase Threshers

Skorpekh Destroyers [7 PL, 135pts]: Plasmacyte, Skorpekh Destroyer (Reap-Blade)
. 2x Skorpekh Destroyer (Thresher): 2x Hyperphase Threshers

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarab Swarms [2 PL, 45pts]
. 3x Scarab Swarms: 3x Feeder Mandibles

Canoptek Wraiths [9 PL, 135pts]
. 3x Canoptek Wraith (Particle Caster): 3x Particle Caster, 3x Vicious Claws

Tomb Blades [5 PL, 105pts]
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope
. . Two Tesla Carbines
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope
. . Two Tesla Carbines
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope
. . Two Tesla Carbines

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 180pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 180pts]

++ Total: [99 PL, 2,000pts] ++

Criticism welcome but like I said this is a mostly casual list made of of Indomitus.

Main thing I'd say is drop the plasmacytes. With 3 man units, the maths is less favourable. With a bigger squad, losing a Destroyer is less of a hit, and if you have a full 6-man squad then you still get more attacks than if you hadn't popped the plasmacyte even if one dies. It's just not worth the risk in three man units.

Other main thing, bring more scarabs. You have two sets, so 12 bases. You should be bringing 12 bases. They're pound for pound the best unit in our book. I'd scrap the tomb blades and plasmacytes, and spend all those points on scarabs. Looks fine otherwise.

You don't have to use the plasmacytes ability though. It could just be 15 points to tank a lascannon or thunderhammer.

Yeah, exactly. Someone else also did the math somewhere that even if you lose a model, since you still gain the buff you are still around 90% combat effective.

I would never use the plasmacyte ability. Its insane to lose a model for a minor buff. Also makes the unit easier to kill, no more RP. I would only use it as an ablative wound.

Hey all, still trying to get my bearings for 9th and plan out future lists. Does this list seems somewhat viable at 2k? The idea would be to tale objectives with obsec wraiths and tomb blades supported by DDAs. Not sure on the best relic, warlord trait, or even best HQ choices for this list though

EDIT: There's also no chance I will get games in before October so I'm trying to base this roughly on the new codex rumours/spoilers, although I do realize that we don't know that much so lists may have to change upon release

Wraith dont have obsec. They will in october.

 p5freak wrote:
Wraith dont have obsec. They will in october.

I should clarify, there's no chance I will be getting games in before the new codex drops so I'm trying to base my list plans roughly on that. Granted lists might have to change after it is released since we don't have all the details but I'm trying to iron out a rough outline of what to buy/hobby towards in the meantime. Edited original post to reflect that.

Anyone noticed that lychguard qith szarekhan dynasty trait is perfect for protecting chars?
All MW for protecting chars can be ignored on 5+.
And if they fire at the lychguard they have and even better 4+ or 3+ with stratagem

Certainly good combo. Though opponent shouldn't be able to shoot characters that freely. Especially as you want to avoid using lychguard bodyguard ability that much as it generates easy kills to lychguard 5+++ or not.

 p5freak wrote:
I would never use the plasmacyte ability. Its insane to lose a model for a minor buff. Also makes the unit easier to kill, no more RP. I would only use it as an ablative wound.

It's not a minor buff though, it's a very strong buff. +1 Str and +1 Attacks is huge, especially since it puts the reap-blade to strength 8.

I have been watching matches on you tube/twitch and going over the missions in both the BRB and CA GT 2020.

Some of the observations to date seems that the player who scores 10 to 15 primary objective points turn two along with consistently scoring on progressive objectives more often than not wins the match as the other play seems to consistently struggle to shift their opponent off objectives and make up the difference with end of game secondary objective points.

So with those observations in mind trying to get my head around what secondaries best synergize with Necrons and which missions may pose the biggest challenges.

What are the Necron’s best units at the moment for taking and holding at least two objectives by end of turn 2?

What secondary objectives are the best choices for Necrons currently?

Which of the strike force missions do you think might be the most challenging for Necrons or are close to an auto loss?

I am just recently getting in to the Necron scene, had to have those Skorpekhs, but so far it seems to me that some form of vehicle is good to get models to objectives turn 2, so I'm thinking Ghost Arks and drop a squad of warriors or Immortals on the objective, and if an objective is sitting close to one of the board edges, I say outflank and try to grab it with that.

 Lord of Deeds wrote:

What are the Necron’s best units at the moment for taking and holding at least two objectives by end of turn 2?

Lychguard can be made darn tough. Wraiths tough and fast. Tomb blades fast, shoot and reasonably tough.

Those would be my picks.

so you can fit 10 skorpekh lords on a ghost ark (most likely going to be changed come oct). How do they all sit in it?

Oberron wrote:
so you can fit 10 skorpekh lords on a ghost ark (most likely going to be changed come oct). How do they all sit in it?

That's pretty hilarious, and by the same coin — unless I'm missing something — the new Szeras can also embark in a ghost ark... Honestly perplexed as to why he is infantry and not a monster with that base size.

Well that will last only until codex at most

 TheArchmagos wrote:

Oberron wrote:
so you can fit 10 skorpekh lords on a ghost ark (most likely going to be changed come oct). How do they all sit in it?

That's pretty hilarious, and by the same coin — unless I'm missing something — the new Szeras can also embark in a ghost ark... Honestly perplexed as to why he is infantry and not a monster with that base size.

Those lords, and szeras must be collapsible like a folding bike

They’re probably ‘Infantry’ so they can Tomb World deployment from Monoliths.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asyrian wrote:
Anyone noticed that lychguard qith szarekhan dynasty trait is perfect for protecting chars?
All MW for protecting chars can be ignored on 5+.
And if they fire at the lychguard they have and even better 4+ or 3+ with stratagem

If Szeras or other characters come out with enough wounds to be targetable, this can be immensely powerful. Effectively ‘shield drones’ for Necrons! Except here the drones can reanimate...!

Just imagine them defending the giant throne of the silent king

Plus unlike shield drones, they’re actually useful and tough in their own right.

sieGermans wrote:
Plus unlike shield drones, they’re actually useful and tough in their own right.

Though their bodyguard rule is inferior making easiest way to get lychguard killed via characters. Especially if you have 2++ lychguard around the character near them can be liability when opponent simply feeds mortal wounds to the lychguard.

tneva82 wrote:

sieGermans wrote:
Plus unlike shield drones, they’re actually useful and tough in their own right.

Though their bodyguard rule is inferior making easiest way to get lychguard killed via characters. Especially if you have 2++ lychguard around the character near them can be liability when opponent simply feeds mortal wounds to the lychguard.

Pretty sure they ll get the death guard termi bodyguard rule
All hits that are intercepted get rolled against the lychguard

That's q for then. Now they take mw for each damage　intercepted so d6 damage weapon can cause 6 mw to lychguard.

Speculating with future rules　isn't helping now. They could lose punch, lose wound, get 50% price　hike etc also changing things again.

What are your thoughts about canoptek reanimators?
I think they arent worth it at 110 points for a T5 and 6 wound model.
Basilcy no save. He's huge so hiding is hard.

They should be 20 points less and have like quantum shielding. Every vehicul or monster should have quantum shield in fact.
Why not use that technology when having it

tneva82 wrote:

sieGermans wrote:
Plus unlike shield drones, they’re actually useful and tough in their own right.

Though their bodyguard rule is inferior making easiest way to get lychguard killed via characters. Especially if you have 2++ lychguard around the character near them can be liability when opponent simply feeds mortal wounds to the lychguard.

Eh? It’s an optional activation, and the odds of failing the MW save are the same regardless?

Krull wrote:
What are your thoughts about canoptek reanimators?
I think they arent worth it at 110 points for a T5 and 6 wound model.
Basilcy no save. He's huge so hiding is hard.

They should be 20 points less and have like quantum shielding. Every vehicul or monster should have quantum shield in fact.
Why not use that technology when having it

Right now he should be like 50, but we dont know how RP will change in in the new codex, perhaps then 110 points will be justified.

Krull wrote:
What are your thoughts about canoptek reanimators?
I think they arent worth it at 110 points for a T5 and 6 wound model.
Basilcy no save. He's huge so hiding is hard.

My issue is more that, much like Spyders, they don't actually seem to do anything.

If I want to buff RPs, I'll take a Cryptek or a Resurrection Orb.

 p5freak wrote:
Right now he should be like 50, but we dont know how RP will change in in the new codex, perhaps then 110 points will be justified.

I don't care how good RP is in the new codex, the Canoptek Reanimator will still be garbage.

Why? Because if its buff is worth a damn, then the opponent will just blow it's useless ass off the board. And given its laughable stats, it's hardly likely to soak up much firepower in the process.

 vipoid wrote:

Krull wrote:
What are your thoughts about canoptek reanimators?
I think they arent worth it at 110 points for a T5 and 6 wound model.
Basilcy no save. He's huge so hiding is hard.

My issue is more that, much like Spyders, they don't actually seem to do anything.

If I want to buff RPs, I'll take a Cryptek or a Resurrection Orb.

 p5freak wrote:
Right now he should be like 50, but we dont know how RP will change in in the new codex, perhaps then 110 points will be justified.

I don't care how good RP is in the new codex, the Canoptek Reanimator will still be garbage.

Why? Because if its buff is worth a damn, then the opponent will just blow it's useless ass off the board. And given its laughable stats, it's hardly likely to soak up much firepower in the process.

Exactly if the buff is good it only applies to RP and against any decent opponent they'll kill the Reanimator first then focus the warriors. Point for point warriors are tougher anyway so I'd rather just take more

 vipoid wrote:

Krull wrote:
What are your thoughts about canoptek reanimators?
I think they arent worth it at 110 points for a T5 and 6 wound model.
Basilcy no save. He's huge so hiding is hard.

My issue is more that, much like Spyders, they don't actually seem to do anything.

If I want to buff RPs, I'll take a Cryptek or a Resurrection Orb.

 p5freak wrote:
Right now he should be like 50, but we dont know how RP will change in in the new codex, perhaps then 110 points will be justified.

I don't care how good RP is in the new codex, the Canoptek Reanimator will still be garbage.

Why? Because if its buff is worth a damn, then the opponent will just blow it's useless ass off the board. And given its laughable stats, it's hardly likely to soak up much firepower in the process.

So I've played him in a few games, and in practice he has been easier to keep alive than he seems on paper thanks to terrain and his 9" range on ability (he doesn't need LOS). He's still overcosted, but he's usable if you're making a big play with him (aka trying to make a lychguard blob alive and stacking with cryptek).

I feel like GW has this weird problem with overcosting str 6 guns and that's why he's so expensive.

I'd struggle to justify taking him in anything competitive. At the moment I'm just throwing new models in my lists. He needs to come down, or RP needs to get better (which is almost a guarantee at this point).

Btw, did anyone see the expanding your necrons article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/28/beyond-indomitus-top-5-tips-for-expanding-your-necrons/

In the section for Illuminor Szeras, it talks about an ability called Rites of Reanimation, and specifically calls out that he can do it twice. Clues as to new codex stuff.

In the section for Illuminor Szeras, it talks about an ability called Rites of Reanimation, and specifically calls out that he can do it twice. Clues as to new codex stuff.

 vipoid wrote:

Why? Because if its buff is worth a damn, then the opponent will just blow it's useless ass off the board. And given its laughable stats, it's hardly likely to soak up much firepower in the process.

Thankfully here we don't play on planet bowling　ball　but instead with these wonderful things called obscuring terrain.

I'm more worried about actual buff. If unit isn't worth it when everything else clicks not much you can do. Survivability can be dealt with. Buff being weak on weak rule for 110 pts less so.

I really think the original plan of GW was to release the codex much sooner than october. But probably with the global problems with corona things get puched back. Sad.

I realy hope they fix the canoptec reanimator because its pretty model and looks cool behind a wall of models.

I expected codex to drop the week or two after the boxed set, but I think GW is just that backed up. Don't forget AoS still has a new army half out the door and another not even out the door and that's before we touch on specialist games. They've also had to push into the system a re-print of Indomitus (even though its turning out that there is still stock around from the first wave).

So chances are that their release schedule is a very flexible thing right now. Provided they can keep working it will likely settle down after a time.

So, with 9th Edition having reset the FAQs, does this mean we can roll reanimation on morale phase casualties, now?

played my first game of 9th with bunch of the new models and I gotta say I think a unit of reaper warriors in reserves coming in from the sides turn 2 can be pretty devastating to a lot of units. The smaller minimum board size i think is a plus for us since most of our weapons are 24-36 range. The reanimator is nice buff to warrior units and H.destroyers even more so with a cryptek near by for the warriors but a little over costed by around 25-30 points.

Trashcans are a must have for crypteks since we can use them as even better shield drones by having them move out of sight and now they can't be shot at and neither can the cryptek.

Skorpek destroyers and lord are pretty fun, but i kept forgetting to drug up my destroyers each combat. Veil on the lord for first turn charge is super fun and scary to see.

I'm planning right now in my lists once we get the updated Dynasty Codes to run a x20 man squad of Sautekh Reaper Warriors, Veil them up turn 1 to dump 40 str 5 AP-2 shots with reroll 1s to wound. I think it'll be nasty.

I'm trying to make a list work with the deceiver to bring half the army to midfield turn 1 to cause some serious damage and hold midfield turn 1.

sieGermans wrote:
So, with 9th Edition having reset the FAQs, does this mean we can roll reanimation on morale phase casualties, now?

Seeing rule in codex prevents it...no. you would need faq give permission rather than faq preventing.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Krull wrote:
What are your thoughts about canoptek reanimators?
I think they arent worth it at 110 points for a T5 and 6 wound model.
Basilcy no save. He's huge so hiding is hard.

My issue is more that, much like Spyders, they don't actually seem to do anything.

If I want to buff RPs, I'll take a Cryptek or a Resurrection Orb.

 p5freak wrote:
Right now he should be like 50, but we dont know how RP will change in in the new codex, perhaps then 110 points will be justified.

I don't care how good RP is in the new codex, the Canoptek Reanimator will still be garbage.

Why? Because if its buff is worth a damn, then the opponent will just blow it's useless ass off the board. And given its laughable stats, it's hardly likely to soak up much firepower in the process.

So I've played him in a few games, and in practice he has been easier to keep alive than he seems on paper thanks to terrain and his 9" range on ability (he doesn't need LOS). He's still overcosted, but he's usable if you're making a big play with him (aka trying to make a lychguard blob alive and stacking with cryptek).

I feel like GW has this weird problem with overcosting str 6 guns and that's why he's so expensive.

I'd struggle to justify taking him in anything competitive. At the moment I'm just throwing new models in my lists. He needs to come down, or RP needs to get better (which is almost a guarantee at this point)

It's a little gimmicky/situational, but I've been toying with the idea of Canoptek Reanimator + Repair Subroutines... Nothing in the Reanimator's datasheet specifies the target unit needs to actually have Reanimation Protocols.

Neb wrote:

It's a little gimmicky/situational, but I've been toying with the idea of Canoptek Reanimator + Repair Subroutines... Nothing in the Reanimator's datasheet specifies the target unit needs to actually have Reanimation Protocols.

What are you talking about ? Do you want to use repair subroutines on the reanimator and make it reanimate itself ? You cant do that. A unit which has been removed from the battlefield cannot roll for RP.

 p5freak wrote:

Neb wrote:

It's a little gimmicky/situational, but I've been toying with the idea of Canoptek Reanimator + Repair Subroutines... Nothing in the Reanimator's datasheet specifies the target unit needs to actually have Reanimation Protocols.

What are you talking about ? Do you want to use repair subroutines on the reanimator and make it reanimate itself ? You cant do that. A unit which has been removed from the battlefield cannot roll for RP.

Umm.. he wants to reanimate wraiths? Or scarabs even. Or Acanthrites, who knows, but something Canoptek. Should be a perfectly fine thing to do.

torblind wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Neb wrote:

It's a little gimmicky/situational, but I've been toying with the idea of Canoptek Reanimator + Repair Subroutines... Nothing in the Reanimator's datasheet specifies the target unit needs to actually have Reanimation Protocols.

What are you talking about ? Do you want to use repair subroutines on the reanimator and make it reanimate itself ? You cant do that. A unit which has been removed from the battlefield cannot roll for RP.

Umm.. he wants to reanimate wraiths? Or scarabs even. Or Acanthrites, who knows, but something Canoptek. Should be a perfectly fine thing to do.

Yes, thats fine. But i wouldnt use a reanimator for that. A cryptek can do the same, and cant be targeted.

I fought orks yesterday. Their buggies cost the same but the damage output is insane. Specially with the custom jobs. And the jump buggie is insane. Hitting on 4s with dakkadakka rule and a reroll to hit and wound from his deathskull rule...
Compare that with our reanimator.... urgh why GW

Had a game yesterday, chill lists, nothing competitive but I used to new Nihilakh rules (everyone ob sec, ignore ap-1 in own deployment zone) and oh boy, it's strong. Seeing a lot of newly painted Nihilkah crons on Reddit and I feel like people have accidentally made a very smart choice lol.

10 Shieldguard sat on a mid-field objective, wraiths went up and stole another. Making units that are that hard to kill ob sec is gross. Reanimator got smoked, he really is terrain dependent, which isn't great for his cost. Skorpekh Lord was OK, but 4 attacks is still underwhelming.

Gonna test out new Sautekh next game.

So if you hide your cryptothralls well enough you could have a pyromancer right out in the open and completely untargetable to shooting attacks? Could provide a nice annoyance.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Had a game yesterday, chill lists, nothing competitive but I used to new Nihilakh rules (everyone ob sec, ignore ap-1 in own deployment zone) and oh boy, it's strong. Seeing a lot of newly painted Nihilkah crons on Reddit and I feel like people have accidentally made a very smart choice lol.

10 Shieldguard sat on a mid-field objective, wraiths went up and stole another. Making units that are that hard to kill ob sec is gross. Reanimator got smoked, he really is terrain dependent, which isn't great for his cost. Skorpekh Lord was OK, but 4 attacks is still underwhelming.

Gonna test out new Sautekh next game.

Seeing how GW has been stomping away 2++ and 3++ I wouldn't count on keeping 2++ either. Even lychguard stratagem could change.

That's why just taking leaks is risky. You can play them but you are missing all other changes and now of course 1/3 of dynasty code itself.

(not to mention lychguard and wraiths could get price hike)

tneva82 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Had a game yesterday, chill lists, nothing competitive but I used to new Nihilakh rules (everyone ob sec, ignore ap-1 in own deployment zone) and oh boy, it's strong. Seeing a lot of newly painted Nihilkah crons on Reddit and I feel like people have accidentally made a very smart choice lol.

10 Shieldguard sat on a mid-field objective, wraiths went up and stole another. Making units that are that hard to kill ob sec is gross. Reanimator got smoked, he really is terrain dependent, which isn't great for his cost. Skorpekh Lord was OK, but 4 attacks is still underwhelming.

Gonna test out new Sautekh next game.

Seeing how GW has been stomping away 2++ and 3++ I wouldn't count on keeping 2++ either. Even lychguard stratagem could change.

That's why just taking leaks is risky. You can play them but you are missing all other changes and now of course 1/3 of dynasty code itself.

(not to mention lychguard and wraiths could get price hike)

Oh yeah of course, I'm just messing about with the models I have. Not investing in anything until the new book arrives (unless I just love the model). A lot will change, but it's just casual games and it's better than using our current, boring ass dynasty traits. I agree that Reclaim a Lost Empire is almost certainly getting nerfed/eliminated. It'll be changed to just armour saves I reckon, or maybe even to shrugging Ap-2 to tie in with the new Nihilakh trait. That'd be tasty on warrior blobs.

The main thing I've taken away from it is that speed and roadblocks are important. if you can stall their main force, while moving another section of yours up the board, you'll have some major board control. Oh, and scarabs are the absolute bomb.

 p5freak wrote:

torblind wrote:


Umm.. he wants to reanimate wraiths? Or scarabs even. Or Acanthrites, who knows, but something Canoptek. Should be a perfectly fine thing to do.

Yes, thats fine. But i wouldnt use a reanimator for that. A cryptek can do the same, and cant be targeted.

Yea I was thinking wraiths, not as something to build a list around though, just toying with additional uses for the Reanimator in general. The benefit to the Reanimator over the Cryptek is the 9" range on the ability. Was thinking it'd be brought primarily for warriors or something but pop off the boost to a squad of wraiths if they start getting low.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Had a game yesterday, chill lists, nothing competitive but I used to new Nihilakh rules (everyone ob sec, ignore ap-1 in own deployment zone) and oh boy, it's strong. Seeing a lot of newly painted Nihilkah crons on Reddit and I feel like people have accidentally made a very smart choice lol.

10 Shieldguard sat on a mid-field objective, wraiths went up and stole another. Making units that are that hard to kill ob sec is gross. Reanimator got smoked, he really is terrain dependent, which isn't great for his cost. Skorpekh Lord was OK, but 4 attacks is still underwhelming.

Gonna test out new Sautekh next game.

So everyone is sure these leaked rules are 100% true and not a fake?
No one seems to add salt at these rules. Where are they coming from?

Krull wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Had a game yesterday, chill lists, nothing competitive but I used to new Nihilakh rules (everyone ob sec, ignore ap-1 in own deployment zone) and oh boy, it's strong. Seeing a lot of newly painted Nihilkah crons on Reddit and I feel like people have accidentally made a very smart choice lol.

10 Shieldguard sat on a mid-field objective, wraiths went up and stole another. Making units that are that hard to kill ob sec is gross. Reanimator got smoked, he really is terrain dependent, which isn't great for his cost. Skorpekh Lord was OK, but 4 attacks is still underwhelming.

Gonna test out new Sautekh next game.

So everyone is sure these leaked rules are 100% true and not a fake?
No one seems to add salt at these rules. Where are they coming from?

They're from the Codex Preview that GW did. Someone screen-shot the 2 dynasty pages while they were on screen and cleaned up the image enough to transcribe the text.

Krull wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
Had a game yesterday, chill lists, nothing competitive but I used to new Nihilakh rules (everyone ob sec, ignore ap-1 in own deployment zone) and oh boy, it's strong. Seeing a lot of newly painted Nihilkah crons on Reddit and I feel like people have accidentally made a very smart choice lol.

10 Shieldguard sat on a mid-field objective, wraiths went up and stole another. Making units that are that hard to kill ob sec is gross. Reanimator got smoked, he really is terrain dependent, which isn't great for his cost. Skorpekh Lord was OK, but 4 attacks is still underwhelming.

Gonna test out new Sautekh next game.

So everyone is sure these leaked rules are 100% true and not a fake?
No one seems to add salt at these rules. Where are they coming from?

Hard to put salt on rules shown on　gw's　twitch stream when they previewed what comes ahead last month they　showed pages of new codex while talking about it. So it's pretty safe　to say it's valid.

I feel like there needs to be a 9th edition thread at this point.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I feel like there needs to be a 9th edition thread at this point.

Nah, we've only got scraps at the moment. Let's kick it off properly when the new book rocks up.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I feel like there needs to be a 9th edition thread at this point.

Nah, we've only got scraps at the moment. Let's kick it off properly when the new book rocks up.

There likely won't be large Tactica threads like there used to be

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/788821.page

torblind wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I feel like there needs to be a 9th edition thread at this point.

Nah, we've only got scraps at the moment. Let's kick it off properly when the new book rocks up.

There likely won't be large Tactica threads like there used to be

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/788821.page

I get what they are trying to do but its kind of redundant. As more and more threads get created the old threads will get lost under the mountain of new threads so it won't fix the problem then want to and they'll end up back at square 1

Think about it with every leak we've had people have asked new questions on here. So when everyone has a new codex it'll be so many new threads that I wouldn't be surprised if threads get duplicated for example " best Dynasty for necron warriors" "what dynasty should I take for a silver tide list" so someone might be asking the same thing but in a different way

At least this way if 2 questions get asked its in the same thread and not creating more threads

 Red Corsair wrote:
I feel like there needs to be a 9th edition thread at this point.

I think you'd end up with 3 months of pages filled with stop-gap tactics until the codex dropped, which is probably the best time to start new threads.

Yeah I'm not a fan of the new tactics thread thing they're looking at doing for 9th. It's just gonna be a million threads with 3 posts in.

I like the big chunky tactics thread.

torblind wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I feel like there needs to be a 9th edition thread at this point.

Nah, we've only got scraps at the moment. Let's kick it off properly when the new book rocks up.

There likely won't be large Tactica threads like there used to be

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/788821.page

Check nuts&bolts section. Seems they have basically given up on the idea and are thinking alternative.

Leaks out for Heavy Destoyers


I'm sure someone will post the pics on reddit soon. At work so I can't save and upload as easily.

Hi people ! I was wondering what was your take on necron warriors with the new blast weapons rules. Should we only take the minimum unit of 10 or even altogther take necron warriors ?

weaver9 wrote:
Leaks out for Heavy Destoyers

Spoiler:

Two gun variants, both 36"
Variant 1
Heavy 1, S10, Ap-4, d3d3

Varient 2
Heavy 3d3, s7, Ap -1, d1

M8, ws/bs 3+, s4, t5, w4, a2, ld10

4power rating

I'm sure someone will post the pics on reddit soon. At work so I can't save and upload as easily.

'

Good god above can we PLEASE get a gun that has high numbers of shots, ap-1, and TWO damage? ugh

3d3 damage sounds pretty good to me

I'm whelmed.

Comparison to the new Primaris stuff keeps being mindboggling.

Acehilator wrote:
I'm whelmed.

Comparison to the new Primaris stuff keeps being mindboggling.

130 points for the Doomstalker seems pretty good to me.

Doomstalker seems solid at 130pts.

Lokhust with Gauss could be interesting, but the Enmitic gun is disappointing. Was hoping for flat 2 or D3 damage.

Doomstalker may end up replacing Doomsday Arks for me. 4+ BS is booo, but no degrading is yay. 5++ vs Quantum Shielding is kinda even.

Assuming it will get caught, but neither the Doomsday Blaster or Enmitic Exterminator are blast. Weird considering the Doomsday Cannon and Enmitic Annihilator are.

doomstalker seems decent at 130points. Current doomsday firepower on the cheap. I wonder if this means the doomsday ark gun is changing to be more powerful to avoid them having nigh identical profiles.

Lokust with Gauss seems solid. Very much a pure anti-tank weapon, 3D3 damage is no joke.

Asymmetric wrote:
doomstalker seems decent at 130points. Current doomsday firepower on the cheap. I wonder if this means the doomsday ark gun is changing to be more powerful to avoid them having nigh identical profiles.

Lokust with Gauss seems solid. Very much a pure anti-tank weapon, 3D3 damage is no joke.

It's true, I just worry about their survivability. At 70pts a pop, they're gonna need some way to stay alive. Here's hoping for that jump shoot jump strat.

Doomstalker means I get to keep my 3 doomsday cannons, but I save 150pts on current Doomsday Arks. I'll take that.

You do lose out on range though, but with the smaller table sizes that's not going to matter much.

I hope Doomsday Cannons get more than just the extra 24" range. Maybe they'll get a strength increase or something.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You do lose out on range though, but with the smaller table sizes that's not going to matter much.

I hope Doomsday Cannons get more than just the extra 24" range. Maybe they'll get a strength increase or something.

48" is essentially the whole table in 9th.

You guys are liking the Doomstalker? Even on the strong profile it's only 4 damage per turn against vehicles without an Invul save. And that assuming no negative modifiers like dense terrain, and no positive like MWBD because it's just not worth it on such a weak unit. And not even T7.

Geez.

Acehilator wrote:
You guys are liking the Doomstalker? Even on the strong profile it's only 4 damage per turn against vehicles without an Invul save. And that assuming no negative modifiers like dense terrain, and no positive like MWBD because it's just not worth it on such a weak unit. And not even T7.

Geez.

I mean it doesn't get much better than that outside of marines and their stupid melta men. For 130pts, that seems fair enough to me.

Whats the alternative? What does better than that vs vehicles in our book?

Hell, even the ludicrous melta marines only average 7 wounds vs a T8 tank with no inv save.

They average 8 vs T8 and 10.67 vs T7 without any buffs, which are much much easier to come by in a SM army, they are mobile while doing it and are infantry, so easier to hide out of LoS, can move through walls and can gain cover.

Thinking these things are good sounds like Stockholm syndrome, lol.

Acehilator wrote:
They average 8 vs T8 and 10.67 vs T7 without any buffs, which are much much easier to come by in a SM army, they are mobile while doing it and are infantry, so easier to hide out of LoS, can move through walls and can gain cover.

Thinking these things are good sounds like Stockholm syndrome, lol.

You're assuming they're in melta range for those numbers right? I'm not letting those fethers within 12" of my tanks, and nor will anyone with any sense.

Vs T8 it's 6 shots, 4 hits, 2 wounds, 3.5 dmg per shot, 7 damage. And they're considered to be wildly overpowered. Outside of meltamen, what would you considered to be an effective anti-tank gun? Because basically nothing stacks up to them.

With the firepower of typical SM lists it shouldn't really be difficult to get them into Melta range. Also outflank is a thing. If they are not in Melta range, they 100% have Chapter Master + Lieutnant buffs. Which makes it even worse. But it's comparing apples to oranges anyways.

Quad Lascannon Contemptor would be the best analogue. Also a vehicle, also 3+/5++, T7 but less HP and degrades (lol). 6.5 damage without any buffs or doctrines. 8.8 with rerolls, without doctrines.

Exocrine falls off hard against T8, but murders T7 and below.

Hive Guard deal only 6.2 against T8 while costing double the points, but they can safely hide, shoot twice for 2CP and don't fall off as hard against Invulns because they are only AP -2 to begin with.

Acehilator wrote:
With the firepower of typical SM lists it shouldn't really be difficult to get them into Melta range. Also outflank is a thing. If they are not in Melta range, they 100% have Chapter Master + Lieutnant buffs. Which makes it even worse. But it's comparing apples to oranges anyways.

Quad Lascannon Contemptor would be the best analogue. Also a vehicle, also 3+/5++, T7 but less HP and degrades (lol). 6.5 damage without any buffs or doctrines. 8.8 with rerolls, without doctrines.

Exocrine falls off hard against T8, but murders T7 and below.

Hive Guard deal only 6.2 against T8 while costing double the points, but they can safely hide, shoot twice for 2CP and don't fall off as hard against Invulns because they are only AP -2 to begin with.

Contemptor: OK, so a Forge World unit that costs a third more is about a third more effective (we're going without buffs here, because that's a whole mess and we have no idea what buffs we'll have access to).

Hive guard: seems balanced, they do less per pts but they can hide. Exocrine is better vs some targets, and worse vs others.

If the eradicators outflank, that's a turn of not shooting they're doing. You can screen the sides of the board, the odds of them getting in melta range is poor. Sure they can have buffs, but so can we, we don't know our buffs and both sides pay for those buffs, so it's tough to talk balance there at the moment.

You've named three of the best anti-tank units in the game, and the Doomstalker comes out pretty well vs all of them for its points. It's a stretch to say it's a bad unit. At worst, it's sightly less efficient than some of the most efficient anti-tank in the game.

Edit: did the math on Lokhust with gauss to compare. Two of them (140pts) averages 6.33 vs same target with no outside buffs. More output, but not as tough to kill. Also interesting.

Edit edit: More stuff from the interwebs. Someone has access to repaackged box of lychguard/praetorians, so we have new statlines for them. 3 attacks base on lychguard.

Also of note that the Rods appear to be Base Damage 2 for both the shooting and Melee attack now for Praetorians.

 Sasori wrote:
Also of note that the Rods appear to be Base Damage 2 for both the shooting and Melee attack now for Praetorians.

That is so spicy. Praetorians were already threatening to be good at 23pts per model. Assuming they don't go up much in the codex, they're real good. Very happy I built 10 sword and board lychguard again.

IanVanCheese wrote:

Acehilator wrote:
With the firepower of typical SM lists it shouldn't really be difficult to get them into Melta range. Also outflank is a thing. If they are not in Melta range, they 100% have Chapter Master + Lieutnant buffs. Which makes it even worse. But it's comparing apples to oranges anyways.

Quad Lascannon Contemptor would be the best analogue. Also a vehicle, also 3+/5++, T7 but less HP and degrades (lol). 6.5 damage without any buffs or doctrines. 8.8 with rerolls, without doctrines.

Exocrine falls off hard against T8, but murders T7 and below.

Hive Guard deal only 6.2 against T8 while costing double the points, but they can safely hide, shoot twice for 2CP and don't fall off as hard against Invulns because they are only AP -2 to begin with.

Contemptor: OK, so a Forge World unit that costs a third more is about a third more effective (we're going without buffs here, because that's a whole mess and we have no idea what buffs we'll have access to).

Hive guard: seems balanced, they do less per pts but they can hide. Exocrine is better vs some targets, and worse vs others.

If the eradicators outflank, that's a turn of not shooting they're doing. You can screen the sides of the board, the odds of them getting in melta range is poor. Sure they can have buffs, but so can we, we don't know our buffs and both sides pay for those buffs, so it's tough to talk balance there at the moment.

You've named three of the best anti-tank units in the game, and the Doomstalker comes out pretty well vs all of them for its points. It's a stretch to say it's a bad unit. At worst, it's sightly less efficient than some of the most efficient anti-tank in the game.

Edit: did the math on Lokhust with gauss to compare. Two of them (140pts) averages 6.33 vs same target with no outside buffs. More output, but not as tough to kill. Also interesting.

Edit edit: More stuff from the interwebs. Someone has access to repaackged box of lychguard/praetorians, so we have new statlines for them. 3 attacks base on lychguard.

Oh, is that what Japanese rules look like? If so that is interesting that they use symbols instead of abbreviations. That does make a lot of sense, now that I think of it.
Were particle casters always pistol 2?

No they were not

2D RoC makes me happy. I may start running a unit of 10 to bully primaris

I hope everyone is sitting down, because the Tomb Spyder might not be hilariously awful now. Pts dependant of course, but that's a hefty stat buff.

Overall we got a lot more Killy today.

I have 3 Spyders, so I would be happy if they got to see the table for the first time in years.

 Sasori wrote:
I have 3 Spyders, so I would be happy if they got to see the table for the first time in years.

If they can still roll in units of three, that's 15 str 8, -3, d2 attacks you got there. Now I need to dig out my second tomb spyder and build him.

And I had hoped the D6 shots D6 damage on the doomsday cannon would go away, always hated it.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Assuming it will get caught, but neither the Doomsday Blaster or Enmitic Exterminator are blast. Weird considering the Doomsday Cannon and Enmitic Annihilator are.

Got to sell new models. Lack of blast is boon for the stalker.


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IanVanCheese wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You do lose out on range though, but with the smaller table sizes that's not going to matter much.

I hope Doomsday Cannons get more than just the extra 24" range. Maybe they'll get a strength increase or something.

48" is essentially the whole table in 9th.

Luckily not all use those minimum sizes. Minimum by definition is never optimal.


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Acehilator wrote:
They average 8 vs T8 and 10.67 vs T7 without any buffs, which are much much easier to come by in a SM army, they are mobile while doing it and are infantry, so easier to hide out of LoS, can move through walls and can gain cover.

Thinking these things are good sounds like Stockholm syndrome, lol.

You are comparing to one of the most busted AT units in the game...

That's flawed comparison. Everything shouldn't be brought to same level of sillyness. Eradicators need to be brought down.

It's bad for game if everything becomes that level of brokeness.


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 Sasori wrote:
Also of note that the Rods appear to be Base Damage 2 for both the shooting and Melee attack now for Praetorians.

Typical Just got void blades.

Well 4 attacks isn't totally bad. I don't face much marines locally anyway so plenty W1 models to face.


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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh, is that what Japanese rules look like? If so that is interesting that they use symbols instead of abbreviations. That does make a lot of sense, now that I think of it.
Were particle casters always pistol 2?

It's the new multi language assembly guide so that you need less pages. Each language has different letters so this way you only need 1 stat block for all.

Casters 1.


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 p5freak wrote:
And I had hoped the D6 shots D6 damage on the doomsday cannon would go away, always hated it.

Seeing stalker has that don't hold your hopes up.

The 4+ to hit with the Doomstalker is going to make it rough compared to the more reliable 3+ to hit of the DDA though. But 130pts is pretty neat.

Yea, 4+ and D6 shots, D6 damage kinda kills it for me. Half the games it will do precisely nothing, the other half it will be great. If I was cynical, I would say that these stats were created to force everyone to buy three of the damned thing or none. It’s a nice model, but I think in my case it will be none.

2 things that concern me somewhat:

- Doomsday Ark. Doomsday Stalkers. Lokust Destroyers. Heavy destroyers. There is a lot of overlap in terms of low volume backfield high strength good AP anti-tank firepower in the heavy support section. It might be challenging for all these choices to find there own niche.
- The biggest issue with the Doomsday Stalker is that it is a high wound count model without QS. Necron mech lists tend to try to leverage scewing enemy anti-tank by denying them effective targets.

We got to wait to see all the rules though. Command protocols & stragems may play a huge role.

Attacks changes to Lynchguard and Praetorians look good if there points remains similar. I wonder with if Praetorians will get dynasty traits (or maybe get Szarehkhan dynasty default?)

 p5freak wrote:
And I had hoped the D6 shots D6 damage on the doomsday cannon would go away, always hated it.

Agreed. The stupidly swingy nature of Necron anti-tank always annoyed me with so many random shot D6 damage guns, which is what led tot he saturation of regular Destroyers where 3 guaranteed shots was at least reliable. I'm also not liking the fact they've kept the standing still part of the Doomsday profile. It always seemed to me that a race as advanced as the Necrons shouldn't be the only one that has that restriction on any of their guns, and if they do those guns should be absolutely devastating.

OTOH, I'm liking the look of Lokhust Heavy Destroyers with Gauss and both Lychguard and Praetorians, especially Praetorians with Rods as that's what mine are built with.

Asymmetric wrote:
2 things that concern me somewhat:

- Doomsday Ark. Doomsday Stalkers. Lokust Destroyers. Heavy destroyers. There is a lot of overlap in terms of low volume backfield high strength good AP anti-tank firepower in the heavy support section. It might be challenging for all these choices to find there own niche.
- The biggest issue with the Doomsday Stalker is that it is a high wound count model without QS. Necron mech lists tend to try to leverage scewing enemy anti-tank by denying them effective targets.

We got to wait to see all the rules though. Command protocols & stragems may play a huge role.

Attacks changes to Lynchguard and Praetorians look good if there points remains similar. I wonder with if Praetorians will get dynasty traits (or maybe get Szarehkhan dynasty default?)

Your second point suggests the distinctions required for the first:

1. DDA: Good versus 'traditional' AT fire (e.g., Lascannons and other D6 damage weaponry). Also has good Anti-MEQ/GEQ fire support at close range.
2. DDS: Better than DDA versus non-traditional AT fire (e.g., Plasma and high volume of 2dmg fire) that usually gets past QS. Also has limited volume of Anti-MEQ/GEQ fire support and high impact low volume of melee attachs.
3. LD/HD: Leverages RP for long-game resilience, and good versus high VoF / low strength fire (e.g., GEQ massed lasguns or bolters).

If you want AT, and the meta skews to Lascannons, you want a DDA. If the meta skews to Plasma, you want a DDS. If you have an RP-heavy synergy focus that you want to leverage onto your AT, you want Destroyers.

sieGermans wrote:

Asymmetric wrote:
2 things that concern me somewhat:

- Doomsday Ark. Doomsday Stalkers. Lokust Destroyers. Heavy destroyers. There is a lot of overlap in terms of low volume backfield high strength good AP anti-tank firepower in the heavy support section. It might be challenging for all these choices to find there own niche.
- The biggest issue with the Doomsday Stalker is that it is a high wound count model without QS. Necron mech lists tend to try to leverage scewing enemy anti-tank by denying them effective targets.

We got to wait to see all the rules though. Command protocols & stragems may play a huge role.

Attacks changes to Lynchguard and Praetorians look good if there points remains similar. I wonder with if Praetorians will get dynasty traits (or maybe get Szarehkhan dynasty default?)

Your second point suggests the distinctions required for the first:

My point was since they overlap so much, that the more likely outcome is one or more of the above 4 units may emerge redunant.

I don't really see how doomstalkers are an especially efficent choice in a world of damage 2 plasma as you imply, perhaps marginally so compared to other heavy support choices but not enough to gain an edge. Doomsday Arks have flayer arrays so the anti infantry firepower output point is moot.

I'm more holding out for synergy in the command protocols and stratgems.

I have to say, I'm liking the idea of D2 rods for Praetorians.

I wonder if there's any chance the Staff of Light will get similar treatment?

If the Overlord can mwbd any necrons unit will that change the people's thoughts on the doomstalker? Or would you just mwbd a DDA?

Not sure if MWBD on a heavy D6 gun is a good idea.

Necronwarrior12 wrote:
If the Overlord can mwbd any necrons unit will that change the people's thoughts on the doomstalker? Or would you just mwbd a DDA?

I suspect MWBD will get more millage on higher point cost units.

9 tomblades.
3 lokusts
6 destroyers
Necrons Lords of war. Maybe a new buffed monolith, etc.

We'll see if tesla is still good with MWBD. I'm hoping they don't make it unmodified 6s despite the speculation.

Anyone actually gotten some games in with the new rules? I'm finding that the DDA is significantly worse. It doesn't hide well, 72" range doesn't mean much more than 36" which covers most the board. Sight lines are also a nightmare for the thing now resulting in frequent maneuvering. Additionally blast is a hilariously bad keyword for it's cannon completely nullifying the unit if it gets tagged in CC which isn't that difficult with smaller boards.

Think I'll be replacing them for the most part with the new less expensive stalker. Though durability may prove an issue without QS.

There does seem like there is a lot of overlap with our destroyer options now though. With each one being better vs certain targets, wonder if we'll see a mix or if one rises as the better TAC option.

If Triarch Praetorians stay the same price, and Voidblades stay +1 Attacks, then we finally have a unit that's pretty decent at clearing chaff efficiently. (Ignoring cryptothralls, which would be amazing blenders if you could actually just take them).
They'd be a hair better than Warriors at killing GEQ, and 50% tougher.