gorgon wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Again, given that it SEEMS as though Kelly is driving players toward fewer MCs and more horde-y armies, there's some reason to think Horrors are going to benefit in other ways.

The problem for me is that MCs are one of the main things that attracted me to Daemons in the first place. It seems like we're being encouraged to run Heralds, which really makes me sad.

They gotta change thing$ up for the exi$ting player$. Either that comes in the form of desirable new units (see Deathwing Knights, Ravenwing Knights, Darkshrouds, etc.) or in the form of composition shake-ups. I'm a Tyranid player, so I've been through plenty of the latter.

I suppose they need to make sure that you can't just use your existing army as-is. If Daemon Princes were still good and still Heavy Support choices, there'd be no need to buy the new chariots. I've only been playing 40k for about two years, and Daemons for a bit more than half of that. This is the first time and army I've played has gone through a new codex.

At least I have a Soulginder to take up a Heavy Slot until I can fully read the new rules.

Damn, I was hoping fateweaver would lose re-roll. That power is just obnoxious. That is unless it goes to models in range instead of unit in range. Then it is okay.

Any word on epidemius?

 pretre wrote:

Natfka wrote:Heralds: have +1 to weapon skill, wounds, initiative, attack and have LD 9-10
Soul grinder has sky fire in profile (220pts base)

All daemon units have a 5+ invulnerable save as standard.
There is upgrades to give heralds 3+ and even 2+ save (although it is very expensive)

Greater daemons are beasts – the keeper of secrets have 6 base attacks and gains more attacks for every kill. She also has rending.

Blood thirster- has amazing stat line:
WS BS S T W A I LD SV
10 5 8 7 5 5 5 10 4+

Re- rolls all failed to hit and to wound.
All greater daemons have the option for 2+ save – although it is on the 65pts+ mark

Fate weaver can make a enemy hero turn into a spawn if they fail an invulnerble save.
Still re-rolls saves (but only invulnerable – no longer armour)

Basic troops stay the same, points have been reduced minimal
Bloodletters – reduced by a point
Daemonettes – reduced by 2 points but are now strength 4 on the charge.
Plague bearers – reduced by 3 points a model but have lost feel no pain but gained shrouded.
Pink horrors- increased by 2 points but have better saves.

Blood crushers are now monstrous beasts and have rage. (They are really expensive)
Beast of nurgle are vastly improved – and have gone up in cost by 30+ points

Physic powers are a bit to random and can hurt you badly if you roll badly
Nurgle is the best of a bad bunch.

Point drop on the Daemonettes, Bloodletters, and PB's doesn't sound high enough. But, depending on how banners and other things work I could see why they'd only get the pricebreak they do.

Beasts at 65+ points per model is pretty crazy. Granted they'd be a shrouded beast that can regain wounds (and they have 4!) so that's not actually that crazy. Monstrous Beasts is a new unit type (i guess) so we'll have to see what that means if they are going to bump them past 40 points per model.

Horrors could be very, very interesting. Divination is a hardcore chart. And if you get a big squad and pull down the re-roll everything power that targets the psyker they would be insane. And if you can get up to lvl 4 there is a decent chance of that happening. I can see the reason for the point increase, hopefully they still have a base range attack, not a psychic one.

220 for the Soulgrinder means it better come with every option. That is crazy expensive for an AV13 vehicle in this edition.

We'll have to see about daemonic instability. Either way it looks interesting at least. I'm looking forward to the actual rules.

Also I just imagine Tzeench troops with divination, suddenly thousand sons dont look as bad.......

*Delete*

@Hulk: Having a level 4 unit just opens up all sorts of shenanigans depending on which charts they can roll on.

Double Telepathy? Yikes!

I'm approaching the Daemon book as the second half to the CSM book. I'm not seeing the two books as separate codices, but rather as one giant one. When viewed in this manner, the holes that CSM have seem to be plugged from what we know so far.

I'm going out a limb here, and saying I doubt that Bloodcrushers are "Monstrous Beasts" I'm betting there was just some kind of crossed wires with the fantasy version, which would be monstrous cav.

I'm betting Bloodcrushers will be just plain ole cavalry, after all, a Khorne Lord on a Juggernaut is in the CSM dex.

Seems Plague bearers will be the new must-have troops with only 12 points and excellent cover saves.

 pretre wrote:
@Hulk: Having a level 4 unit just opens up all sorts of shenanigans depending on which charts they can roll on.

Double Telepathy? Yikes!

Precognition on Divination or Invisibility on Telepathy are equally sick. On increases survivability and damage output significantly and the other just makes you nearly impossible to kill in cover with the mark of tzeentch (basically rerollable 2++)

 tarnish wrote:
Seems Plague bearers will be the new must-have troops with only 12 points and excellent cover saves.

Didnt everyone already normally use them in most lists?


Also those horrors better be damn good for pts increase.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 pretre wrote:
@Hulk: Having a level 4 unit just opens up all sorts of shenanigans depending on which charts they can roll on.

Double Telepathy? Yikes!

Precognition on Divination or Invisibility on Telepathy are equally sick. On increases survivability and damage output significantly and the other just makes you nearly impossible to kill in cover with the mark of tzeentch (basically rerollable 2++)

Well, plus with Lv 4, they can do multiple nasties.

 pretre wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

 pretre wrote:
@Hulk: Having a level 4 unit just opens up all sorts of shenanigans depending on which charts they can roll on.

Double Telepathy? Yikes!

Precognition on Divination or Invisibility on Telepathy are equally sick. On increases survivability and damage output significantly and the other just makes you nearly impossible to kill in cover with the mark of tzeentch (basically rerollable 2++)

Well, plus with Lv 4, they can do multiple nasties.

I could actually see the points increase, if they get a mastery level for every, say 5? models, up to level 4. I just hope their shooting isn't tied to it.

Watch them get their own chart and not be able to roll on rulebook powers. GW loves it's charts recently...

I could it being required to take one power from your god powers similar to the CSM book but they won't be pulling them all out. And since they have heralds using divination and a dp using biomancy this leads us to a decent conclusion on powers. I do hope they can't take telepathy though, cause invicibiilty would be ridiculous....Just sayin.

Biomancy on a unit of Horrors would be hilarious thanks to the brotherhood rule too. Imagine an entire unit of T3+d3 with prescience and warp speed or endurance

Surprised we haven't heard anything about Fiends yet.

Lesser Daemons used to have group mastery levels in 2nd Ed, so I'm thrillied to see a return to that, even if it is only for the Horrors.

I for one love the idea of random charts and powers galore for my daemons, that sort of potential is part of why I've always loved my Chaos army! A sop to those who prefer more plannable armies in the form of 'swap your roll for option 0' seems perfectly good to me.

While I was not impressed by the models I saw, later pictures seemed better, and these rules look very interesting.

I'd be glad to have my daemons deep striking in around my CSM at the moment, though it would be nice to get some form of 'teleport guidance' from my CSM Squad Icons. Any chance of that happening do we think?

monstruous cavalery...., Monstruous cavalery... Monstruous Cavalery..., still can't take my mind off of it...

AP2 Cavalery With move through cover, reroll to penetration and smash...

monstruous cavalery, i think i love those two words togheter...

or...,or maybe its there unit type in fantasy?, because there is a Monstrous Cavalery type in fantasy..., maybe they will only be Cavalery in 40k, wich still will be awesome!

Monstrous Calvary and Monstrous Beasts are two unit types in Fantasy. I have a feeling Bloodcrushers will be normal Calvary in 40k.

On the bright side, this means our troops can go to ground now, right? Since they're not technically fearless in a way....?

 AresX8 wrote:
Monstrous Calvary and Monstrous Beasts are two unit types in Fantasy. I have a feeling Bloodcrushers will be normal Calvary in 40k.

They could make them Calvary with smash rules and move through cover or they could do the maulerfiend jig and lake them monstrous creatures that move 12" and ignore cover even when charging.

krazykishere wrote:

 AresX8 wrote:
Monstrous Calvary and Monstrous Beasts are two unit types in Fantasy. I have a feeling Bloodcrushers will be normal Calvary in 40k.

They could make them Calvary with smash rules and move through cover or they could do the maulerfiend jig and lake them monstrous creatures that move 12" and ignore cover even when charging.

Either would be an upgrade to what they are now. As of the current codex, they're just too slow IMO. I've had numerous games where the fast elements of my army just leave the crushers behind. In 5th Ed it wasn't so bad when my MCs could only move 12" per turn. I could keep everything in Fateweavers bubble. Now the FMCs are fast, and the crushers can't keep up.

Alson they where EW, so they din't really need to arrive fast, because they could take all kind of punishment( excepte poisoned weapons like DE armies..., damn i hated those...)

 AresX8 wrote:
Monstrous Calvary and Monstrous Beasts are two unit types in Fantasy. I have a feeling Bloodcrushers will be normal Calvary in 40k.

In the comments on Faeit the author says he meant the greater demons were beasts in terms of their performance, not their profiles. They are still monstrous creatures.

 buddha wrote:

 AresX8 wrote:
Monstrous Calvary and Monstrous Beasts are two unit types in Fantasy. I have a feeling Bloodcrushers will be normal Calvary in 40k.

In the comments on Faeit the author says he meant the greater demons were beasts in terms of their performance, not their profiles. They are still monstrous creatures.

That's not the reason for my statement, this is:

natfka on his blog wrote:Blood crushers are now monstrous beasts and have rage. (They are really expensive)

Monstrous Beasts don't exist in 40k. Only in Fantasy. However, the fact they have the Rage USR could mean that Monstrous Beast is a new unit type, but I don't think GW would do that.

They did it with Jump Cavalery, with the Drones.

For all the crying about points increase i dont think that any of this is unreasonable.

Horrors cost the same as a SM but have a 4++ reroll 1's. Something that cant be denied by 99% of the armies out there. Unlike an AP1~3 weapon.

Soul grinders are now 220 ... boo hoo. At least for your price increase your av 13 the Defiler costs almost just as much and is AV 12.

Your Demon Princes also dont cost an arm and a leg. And your named characters are still awesome.

The only things i would be concerned with is the removal of demonic assault and this Instability.

Overall you came out ahead of C:CSM.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
They did it with Jump Cavalery, with the Drones.

Jump Cavalry is not a new unit type, 6th Ed made Jump and Jet Pack prefixes, not their own defined type.

Tyrs13 wrote:
For all the crying about points increase i dont think that any of this is unreasonable.

Horrors cost the same as a SM but have a 4++ reroll 1's. Something that cant be denied by 99% of the armies out there. Unlike an AP1~3 weapon.

Soul grinders are now 220 ... boo hoo. At least for your price increase your av 13 the Defiler costs almost just as much and is AV 12.

Your Demon Princes also dont cost an arm and a leg. And your named characters are still awesome.

The only things i would be concerned with is the removal of demonic assault and this Instability.

Overall you came out ahead of C:CSM.

If Horrors cost the same as a space marine, Id be very happy indeed! As the rumor has it, they are now 19p each, and the comparison PH/SM is bad either way.
Thoug quite expencive, Horrors could now have multiple uses in an army if they get access to lots of psy power.

But overall, the current rumors on basic troops fail to fix the problems they have in current dex IMO.

Did everyone see the post on the skull cannon for fantasy yet? I didn't see any post on it yet.

it's a 48" str 10 flaming D6 wound cannon that can move and shoot.

T5 4 wounds 3+ armorsave and the movement looks like 7.

Sounds like a 50 point model to me.

Skull Cannon rules for fantasy, courtesy of gas_monkey82 on NZ Hammered blog.

Cannon itself is 48" range, S10, D6 wounds and Flaming Attacks. Can move AND fire with no penalty.

Mv7 S5 T5 W4 A3 3+/5++

Special Rules: Daemon of Khorne, Daemonic, Gorefeast(unknown what this does), Daemon Engine(also unknown)

If I had to guess I would say one of these special rules means it loses a wound on a misfire, since no source has mentioned a misfire chart.

Troop type is Chariot.

135 points. Yes, you read that right.

On the charge, you're looking at D6 S6 impact hits, followed by 5 attacks at WS5, 3 of which are S6 and the other two at S5 with killing blow (bloodletters on the back). I'd say it's nearly worth 135 points before you remember it has a flipping cannon strapped to it's back.

Edit: It's incredibly hard to read, but from the blurry picture I've seen, there is a special rule that reads like this: Implacable Advance: "This model can move (and attack!) and still shoot any one of its weapons." The part in brackets is the really blurry bit but that's what it looks like to me, but don't quote me on anything. I can't think what else it could be.

Edit: After sharpening the image in Photoshop it looks more like "(not attack!)". Which is probably more likely considering it's already broken cost.

Sounds like the Skullcannon is the new Ironblaster!

135 points is pretty damn cheap, that's for sure.

 lordofthegophers wrote:
Skull Cannon rules for fantasy, courtesy of gas_monkey82 on NZ Hammered blog.

Cannon itself is 48" range, S10, D6 wounds and Flaming Attacks. Can move AND fire with no penalty.

Mv7 S5 T5 W4 A3 3+/5++

Special Rules: Daemon of Khorne, Daemonic, Gorefeast(unknown what this does), Daemon Engine(also unknown)

If I had to guess I would say one of these special rules means it loses a wound on a misfire, since no source has mentioned a misfire chart.

Troop type is Chariot.

135 points. Yes, you read that right.

On the charge, you're looking at D6 S6 impact hits, followed by 5 attacks at WS5, 3 of which are S6 and the other two at S5 with killing blow (bloodletters on the back). I'd say it's nearly worth 135 points before you remember it has a flipping cannon strapped to it's back.

Edit: It's incredibly hard to read, but from the blurry picture I've seen, there is a special rule that reads like this: Implacable Advance: "This model can move (and attack!) and still shoot any one of its weapons." The part in brackets is the really blurry bit but that's what it looks like to me, but don't quote me on anything. I can't think what else it could be.

Edit: After sharpening the image in Photoshop it looks more like "(not attack!)". Which is probably more likely considering it's already broken cost.

I haven't played WHFB in over a year, and I'll buy two probably. Well, I guess it depends on whether or not Bloodletters really have been hit down to S4 or not. Still, just to run around with a Demon army that has cannons, it's tempting as hell.

Those cannons (from the leaked rules), if accurate, are necessary. Good thing I can convert-I refuse to buy those abominations.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Those cannons (from the leaked rules), if accurate, are necessary. Good thing I can convert-I refuse to buy those abominations.

They're good, but they aren't Ironblaster good.

They really did drop the ball on that model though.

I kind of have to imagine that Gorefeast is going to require it to kill something in combat to fire? Or to fire more than once?

As it stands that's a marginally less durable (or not if you consider the fact it has a ward save) longer ranged ironblaster for a significant cost reduction.

In other words, before anyone freaks out (hah!) I'm guessing there's a pretty significant piece of the picture still missing.

 Sasori wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Those cannons (from the leaked rules), if accurate, are necessary. Good thing I can convert-I refuse to buy those abominations.

They're good, but they aren't Ironblaster good.

They really did drop the ball on that model though.

Errr...until we see what the drawback is (if any), then they're better than ironblasters for 30 pts less.

 Sasori wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Those cannons (from the leaked rules), if accurate, are necessary. Good thing I can convert-I refuse to buy those abominations.

They're good, but they aren't Ironblaster good.

They really did drop the ball on that model though.

It has a Ward Save. 48" plus move and fire is more than enough if you deploy them well.

Against normal Cannons, this will always get the "first shots" against the stationary artillery. Against Ironblasters, the Ward Save means that these probably win the shootout barring dice going hot.

Khorne Cannon sounds like one of the most overpowered units in the entire game, propably *the* most overpowered regular unit. I mean, really? 30 points more expensive than a regular cannon and so much better? Just ridiculous.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Khorne Cannon sounds like one of the most overpowered units in the entire game, propably *the* most overpowered regular unit. I mean, really? 30 points more expensive than a regular cannon and so much better? Just ridiculous.

But..but...but...you're not considering it within the context of the army! Empire has so many advantages built into their....

Oh who the hell am I kidding? STUPID BROKEN CANNONS FTW!

Red_Zeke wrote:
In other words, before anyone freaks out (hah!) I'm guessing there's a pretty significant piece of the picture still missing.

Sigvatr wrote:Khorne Cannon sounds like one of the most overpowered units in the entire game, propably *the* most overpowered regular unit. I mean, really? 30 points more expensive than a regular cannon and so much better? Just ridiculous.

...

 Voodoo Boyz wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Those cannons (from the leaked rules), if accurate, are necessary. Good thing I can convert-I refuse to buy those abominations.

They're good, but they aren't Ironblaster good.

They really did drop the ball on that model though.

It has a Ward Save. 48" plus move and fire is more than enough if you deploy them well.

Against normal Cannons, this will always get the "first shots" against the stationary artillery. Against Ironblasters, the Ward Save means that these probably win the shootout barring dice going hot.

We don't know all the rules quite yet though. I'm going to say, like Zeke, it's going to have a drawback.

 Sasori wrote:

 Voodoo Boyz wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Those cannons (from the leaked rules), if accurate, are necessary. Good thing I can convert-I refuse to buy those abominations.

They're good, but they aren't Ironblaster good.

They really did drop the ball on that model though.

It has a Ward Save. 48" plus move and fire is more than enough if you deploy them well.

Against normal Cannons, this will always get the "first shots" against the stationary artillery. Against Ironblasters, the Ward Save means that these probably win the shootout barring dice going hot.

We don't know all the rules quite yet though. I'm going to say, like Zeke, it's going to have a drawback.

There's always the possibility with that last special rule, but I think the safe money is that when you try to combine the phrases "Matt Ward" "Daemon Army Book" and "Drawback" into a coherent sentence, one of those words is probably going to get left out.

 Red_Zeke wrote:

Red_Zeke wrote:
In other words, before anyone freaks out (hah!) I'm guessing there's a pretty significant piece of the picture still missing.

Sigvatr wrote:Khorne Cannon sounds like one of the most overpowered units in the entire game, propably *the* most overpowered regular unit. I mean, really? 30 points more expensive than a regular cannon and so much better? Just ridiculous.

...

Thus "sounds like", implying that I am not entirely sure and only judging by the info we yet have. "Sounds like" is shorter, thus I said "sounds like" and not "I am not entirely sure and only judge by the info I yet have".

 matphat wrote:
Surprised we haven't heard anything about Fiends yet.

I'm gonna guess that they won't be too different. Note that Daemon of Slaanesh will probably give them +3" to their run move. Add that to Beasts, Fleet, and Move Through Cover, and you have one very speedy unit. As I said earlier, I don't think the codex will lack speed.

I tend to wonder wthat the loci will be for slannesh. I'm betting. ASF, Swiftstride and terror.

Those seem like good guesses Arcadia. May swap stubborn for terror though.

From today's White Dwarf Daily:

You'll also have four Blue Horrors spare, which you can add to your unit of Pink Horrors for a splash of colour or use as Horror counters in combat (when a Pink Horror dies they explode into Blue Horrors, which get to scrabble and nibble at their foes before they get squashed).

Interesting, I wonder what exactly this will do. Saying they can be used as "counters" makes me think they don't stay around indefinitely, just as an effect that lasts maybe the next turn?

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
From today's White Dwarf Daily:

You'll also have four Blue Horrors spare, which you can add to your unit of Pink Horrors for a splash of colour or use as Horror counters in combat (when a Pink Horror dies they explode into Blue Horrors, which get to scrabble and nibble at their foes before they get squashed).

Interesting, I wonder what exactly this will do. Saying they can be used as "counters" makes me think they don't stay around indefinitely, just as an effect that lasts maybe the next turn?

Probably just a bonus attack for every Horror killed.

So...it's out for preorder...but when is it out out?

Saturday

*Squee!* ^^

sninsch on Warseer wrote:
from gw fanworld:

warpstorm table:
2: all units take a d. instability test
3: one daemon char tests on Leadership with 3D6 and takes wounds like d.instability
4: all daemons -1 ward save
5: affects enemies and nurgle units, through a D6 on a 6 use 5" template S4, DS:
6: affects enemies and tzeentch units: on a 6 D6 hits with S4 DS:3, poison, ignore cover
7: nothing
8: affects enemies and khorne units: on a 6 D6 hits with S6, Ds:-, ignore cover, rending
9: affects enemies and slaanesh: 3" template S8, Ds3
10: +1 wardsave for daemons
11: enemy psiker test on Leadership with 3D6, if failed he dies and a new herold is born
12: a new core unit of is summoned, 2D6+3 models

 pretre wrote:

sninsch on Warseer wrote:
from gw fanworld:

warpstorm table:
2: all units take a d. instability test
3: one daemon char tests on Leadership with 3D6 and takes wounds like d.instability
4: all daemons -1 ward save
5: affects enemies and nurgle units, through a D6 on a 6 use 5" template S4, DS:
6: affects enemies and tzeentch units: on a 6 D6 hits with S4 DS:3, poison, ignore cover
7: nothing
8: affects enemies and khorne units: on a 6 D6 hits with S6, Ds:-, ignore cover, rending
9: affects enemies and slaanesh: 3" template S8, Ds3
10: +1 wardsave for daemons
11: enemy psiker test on Leadership with 3D6, if failed he dies and a new herold is born
12: a new core unit of is summoned, 2D6+3 models

Don't like winning? Then try kill your own units with the Warpstorm table! With 5 out of 12 options causing damage to your army, your sure to lose!

That chart is fairly confusing. Does it hit your own guys on the "affects" parts?

Hoping it's wrong.

Hah, truly it is random to the max.

And not in a good way like the Chaos Boon table.

Also you need to bring more herald models just to deal with his psykers turning into them. And Chaos Spawn for good ol' Kairos.

 pretre wrote:

sninsch on Warseer wrote:
from gw fanworld:

warpstorm table:
2: all units take a d. instability test
3: one daemon char tests on Leadership with 3D6 and takes wounds like d.instability
4: all daemons -1 ward save
5: affects enemies and nurgle units, through a D6 on a 6 use 5" template S4, DS:
6: affects enemies and tzeentch units: on a 6 D6 hits with S4 DS:3, poison, ignore cover
7: nothing
8: affects enemies and khorne units: on a 6 D6 hits with S6, Ds:-, ignore cover, rending
9: affects enemies and slaanesh: 3" template S8, Ds3
10: +1 wardsave for daemons
11: enemy psiker test on Leadership with 3D6, if failed he dies and a new herold is born
12: a new core unit of is summoned, 2D6+3 models

Ah, good to see the Skaven are now in 40k too

Wow, if true those are some crazily variable results. Potentially gaining or losing hundreds of points in the course of a game.

 Shandara wrote:
Hah, truly it is random to the max.

And not in a good way like the Chaos Boon table.

Also you need to bring more herald models just to deal with his psykers turning into them. And Chaos Spawn for good ol' Kairos.

Also, some of the talk in the new White Dwarf makes it seem like Daemon character upgrades are going to be randomised.

 blood reaper wrote:

 pretre wrote:

sninsch on Warseer wrote:
from gw fanworld:

warpstorm table:
2: all units take a d. instability test
3: one daemon char tests on Leadership with 3D6 and takes wounds like d.instability
4: all daemons -1 ward save
5: affects enemies and nurgle units, through a D6 on a 6 use 5" template S4, DS:
6: affects enemies and tzeentch units: on a 6 D6 hits with S4 DS:3, poison, ignore cover
7: nothing
8: affects enemies and khorne units: on a 6 D6 hits with S6, Ds:-, ignore cover, rending
9: affects enemies and slaanesh: 3" template S8, Ds3
10: +1 wardsave for daemons
11: enemy psiker test on Leadership with 3D6, if failed he dies and a new herold is born
12: a new core unit of is summoned, 2D6+3 models

Don't like winning? Then try kill your own units with the Warpstorm table! With 5 out of 12 options causing damage to your army, your sure to lose!

Only 2-4 are really just bad for your army. 5-9 hit only some types of units and all of the enemies. That's pretty good.

I'm quite sure that this is probably the worst thing that can happen to a fragile army with generally high points costs and poor stat lines. Hopefully this is bs, because this makes the entire army far less appealing for me to play even as allies.

 pretre wrote:
warpstorm table:
2: all units take a d. instability test
3: one daemon char tests on Leadership with 3D6 and takes wounds like d.instability
4: all daemons -1 ward save

Really bad for Daemons.

5: affects enemies and nurgle units, through a D6 on a 6 use 5" template S4, DS:
6: affects enemies and tzeentch units: on a 6 D6 hits with S4 DS:3, poison, ignore cover
7: nothing
8: affects enemies and khorne units: on a 6 D6 hits with S6, Ds:-, ignore cover, rending
9: affects enemies and slaanesh: 3" template S8, Ds3

Really bad for your opponent. On a 6, unit suffers a hit and they are big hits.

10: +1 wardsave for daemons
11: enemy psiker test on Leadership with 3D6, if failed he dies and a new herold is born
12: a new core unit of is summoned, 2D6+3 models

It seems to me it doesn't instantly hurt your own unit's. It seems you get a large blast template, and it affect's enemy's, or only models from certain god's if it scatters. I imagine, for example, the one that hurt's enemy's and slannesh unit's, is a khorne based warpsurge, the one that hurt's enemy's and khorne unit's is a slaanesh based warp ability. This seems to fit the themes too, with the slaanesh one (Khorne killer) being rending, the khorne one (Slaanesh killer) being the strongest , the nurgle one (Tzeentch killer) being poison, and the tzeentch one (nurgle killer) being random and crazy .

So yeah, they don't seem to instantly hurt said unit's, only, if a khorne blast scatters onto his enemy, slaanesh's unit's, he doesn't give a damn about them so kills them anyway, and so on xD

 blood reaper wrote:
I run an undivided army. I'm also quite sure that this is probably the worst thing that can happen to a fragile army with generally high points costs and poor stat lines. Hopefully this is bs, because this makes the entire army far less appealing for me to play even as allies.

Really, because most of the entries hurt your opponent a LOT more than it hurts you. Against MSU anything, they are going to be taking all those hits on the 'all enemy plus some of yours' and they probably won't have the invuls you have.

 pretre wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

 pretre wrote:

sninsch on Warseer wrote:
from gw fanworld:

warpstorm table:
2: all units take a d. instability test
3: one daemon char tests on Leadership with 3D6 and takes wounds like d.instability
4: all daemons -1 ward save
5: affects enemies and nurgle units, through a D6 on a 6 use 5" template S4, DS:
6: affects enemies and tzeentch units: on a 6 D6 hits with S4 DS:3, poison, ignore cover
7: nothing
8: affects enemies and khorne units: on a 6 D6 hits with S6, Ds:-, ignore cover, rending
9: affects enemies and slaanesh: 3" template S8, Ds3
10: +1 wardsave for daemons
11: enemy psiker test on Leadership with 3D6, if failed he dies and a new herold is born
12: a new core unit of is summoned, 2D6+3 models

Don't like winning? Then try kill your own units with the Warpstorm table! With 5 out of 12 options causing damage to your army, your sure to lose!

Only 2-4 are really just bad for your army. 5-9 hit only some types of units and all of the enemies. That's pretty good.

And only after getting a on an additional D6 roll if I'm understanding it (which I may not be; through=throw?)

Evileyes wrote:
So yeah, they don't seem to instantly hurt said unit's, only, if a khorne blast scatters onto his enemy, slaanesh's unit's, he doesn't give a damn about them so kills them anyway, and so on xD

I disagree. It looks like 'Roll a D6 for each enemy unit and each X god's unit on the field. On a 6, they suffer the following attack.'

So it is like Tesla or Imotekh for Daemons.

I say free blast and template attack's appearing anywhere on the board, like, deep striking templates of doom from another dimension, is freaking awesome as. It's like having invisible artillery

 pretre wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
I run an undivided army. I'm also quite sure that this is probably the worst thing that can happen to a fragile army with generally high points costs and poor stat lines. Hopefully this is bs, because this makes the entire army far less appealing for me to play even as allies.

Really, because most of the entries hurt your opponent a LOT more than it hurts you. Against MSU anything, they are going to be taking all those hits on the 'all enemy plus some of yours' and they probably won't have the invuls you have.

Not really. With an undivided army, this is just as likely to hurt me as much as the enemy.

yeah,
Plague drone rules look great.
And beasts look better... hopefully pt costs are good.

I also hope spawn are in this codex.

 blood reaper wrote:

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
From today's White Dwarf Daily:

You'll also have four Blue Horrors spare, which you can add to your unit of Pink Horrors for a splash of colour or use as Horror counters in combat (when a Pink Horror dies they explode into Blue Horrors, which get to scrabble and nibble at their foes before they get squashed).

Interesting, I wonder what exactly this will do. Saying they can be used as "counters" makes me think they don't stay around indefinitely, just as an effect that lasts maybe the next turn?

Probably just a bonus attack for every Horror killed.

I'd guess 1 model loses an attack per token or the unit is at -1int as the blue horrors scrabble and nip...?


Panic...

Then do the appropriate # of hits or scatter a blast marker on each enemy or X daemon type unit?

 Verd_Warr wrote:
Then do the appropriate # of hits or scatter a blast marker on each enemy or X daemon type unit?

It appears that the appropriate number of hits hit each unit that you roll a six for.

I love that rumors are like bigfoot pictures. Even in 2013, you can't get one that isn't impossible to read/view. I mean, come on, look at what you're typing before you post it.

Gotcha (I seem to be a few posts behind).

here is the warlord chart:

1: Warlord causes Instant Death with cc attacks
2: Warlord and his unit have Hatred (Everything)
3: As long as Warlord is alive, all enemies take LD tests at -1Ld
4: All daemons within 12'' of warlord reroll failed Instability tests
5: May reroll warp storm table
6: Daemons including Codex:CSM daemons deepstriking within 6'' of warlord don't scatter as long as warlord was on table from the beginning of the turn.

The warlord table looks to be good. Except they keep thinking Fear is useful for some reason.

 Swara wrote:

here is the warlord chart:

1: Warlord causes Instant Death with cc attacks
2: Warlord and his unit have Hatred (Everything)
3: As long as Warlord is alive, all enemies take LD tests at -1Ld
4: All daemons within 12'' of warlord reroll failed Instability tests
5: May reroll warp storm table
6: Daemons including Codex:CSM daemons deepstriking within 6'' of warlord don't scatter as long as warlord was on table from the beginning of the turn.

That's probably the best Warlord chart yet.

he warlord table looks to be good. Except they keep thinking Fear is useful for some reason.

I don't see anything about fear, unless you are referring to the LD test trait, which is still quite useful.

 Swara wrote:

here is the warlord chart:

1: Warlord causes Instant Death with cc attacks
2: Warlord and his unit have Hatred (Everything)
3: As long as Warlord is alive, all enemies take LD tests at -1Ld
4: All daemons within 12'' of warlord reroll failed Instability tests
5: May reroll warp storm table
6: Daemons including Codex:CSM daemons deepstriking within 6'' of warlord don't scatter as long as warlord was on table from the beginning of the turn.

These look really good. Espically compared to that of the Chaos space marine table.

Wow. That is a good table.

Great Warlord chart.

Supposedly the 40K version of the warpstorm table is very similar to what was posted. If so, it's certainly random but overall probably a positive for the daemon player.

maybe I missed it, but what is the warpstorm table, and why do we have to roll on it?

 gorgon wrote:
Great Warlord chart.

Yeah, unlike a lot of charts, there isn't anything I wouldn't want there. Maybe the -1 LD one against a fearless army.

 pretre wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Great Warlord chart.

Yeah, unlike a lot of charts, there isn't anything I wouldn't want there. Maybe the -1 LD one against a fearless army.

Which leaves me skeptical. Too good to be true IMO.

Thats the best Table ever....

 blood reaper wrote:

 Swara wrote:

here is the warlord chart:

1: Warlord causes Instant Death with cc attacks
2: Warlord and his unit have Hatred (Everything)
3: As long as Warlord is alive, all enemies take LD tests at -1Ld
4: All daemons within 12'' of warlord reroll failed Instability tests
5: May reroll warp storm table
6: Daemons including Codex:CSM daemons deepstriking within 6'' of warlord don't scatter as long as warlord was on table from the beginning of the turn.

These look really good. Espically compared to that of the Chaos space marine table.

I wonder if we'll get special characters that have auto-traits like in CSM and DA. If so, anything with #5 or #4 automatically will be my new best friend.

 pretre wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Great Warlord chart.

Yeah, unlike a lot of charts, there isn't anything I wouldn't want there. Maybe the -1 LD one against a fearless army.

The -1 LD is still great if they have a lot of psykers, or for powers like Psychic Scream.

buckero0 wrote:
maybe I missed it, but what is the warpstorm table, and why do we have to roll on it?

Look a few posts up on this page

 pretre wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Great Warlord chart.

Yeah, unlike a lot of charts, there isn't anything I wouldn't want there. Maybe the -1 LD one against a fearless army.

It depends whether daemons can get Terrify from Telepathy. Wasn't there a rumor daemons would get access to some of the BRB psychic power tables?

Number 3 on the warlord trait is supposed to say that enemies take Fear tests at -1Ld.

 pretre wrote:

sninsch on Warseer wrote:
from gw fanworld:

warpstorm table:
2: all units take a d. instability test
3: one daemon char tests on Leadership with 3D6 and takes wounds like d.instability
4: all daemons -1 ward save
5: affects enemies and nurgle units, through a D6 on a 6 use 5" template S4, DS:
6: affects enemies and tzeentch units: on a 6 D6 hits with S4 DS:3, poison, ignore cover
7: nothing
8: affects enemies and khorne units: on a 6 D6 hits with S6, Ds:-, ignore cover, rending
9: affects enemies and slaanesh: 3" template S8, Ds3
10: +1 wardsave for daemons
11: enemy psiker test on Leadership with 3D6, if failed he dies and a new herold is born
12: a new core unit of is summoned, 2D6+3 models

5 represent Tzeentch Deamons attacking Nurgle units as well as enemies during the Warpstorm.
6 is Nurgle deamons who strikes Tzeentch Deamons
8 is Slaanesh Deamons attacking Khorne Deamons
9 is Khorne Deamons hurling Xplody Skulls of flames to Slaanesh Deamons.

Now if you play a lets say a Khorne Monotheist list, except for 8, the other results hurts the ennemy, and 2,3,4 are bad and 7 doesn't do anything.

The fluff behind it, i think, is that the Warpstorm is sending outburst of Warp power from a perticular Gods Domain on the battlefield,that hits the enemie and the Hated Gods soldiers.

But this is the Fantasy chart of Warpstorm.

So expect something similar for 40k

A poster on Faeit (Will H) who claims to have access to the codex says that bloodletters are 10 pts each, and horrors, bearers, and daemonettes are 9 each.

It's crazy that we're like 4 days from release and we have no idea what's true. However, if the above is true...wowsers. And that'd remove any doubt that they're driving daemon army comp to more hoard-y builds.

 gorgon wrote:
A poster on Faeit (Will H) who claims to have access to the codex says that bloodletters are 10 pts each, and horrors, bearers, and daemonettes are 9 each.

It's crazy that we're like 4 days from release and we have no idea what's true. However, if the above is true...wowsers. And that'd remove any doubt that they're driving daemon army comp to more hoard-y builds.

Could I get a link? Because the whole idea of Daemons being a "horde" army doesn't seem too alien after the White Dwarf battle report.

 pretre wrote:
Really, because most of the entries hurt your opponent a LOT more than it hurts you. Against MSU anything, they are going to be taking all those hits on the 'all enemy plus some of yours' and they probably won't have the invuls you have.

I'd go one step further and say that, not only is that generally true, but most of them are specifically not very good at affecting their "targeted" units. The one that targets Tzeentch looks like it comes "from" Nurgle: D6 poison attacks that ignore power armor and cover won't matter much to tzeentch daemons' invul saves, but it will matter a lot to marines. Likewise, most Nurgle stuff will shrug off the "from Tzeentch" big blast at S4, but orks and little bugs will feel that.

- H8

It's in the comments under the Warpstorm table blog entry on Faeit 212.

Think he also said that Skulltaker is 100 and he can take a jugger for 45, but no more chariot option. Also his ID rule only works on a roll of "6".

At this point...who knows?

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 pretre wrote:

sninsch on Warseer wrote:
from gw fanworld:

warpstorm table:
2: all units take a d. instability test
3: one daemon char tests on Leadership with 3D6 and takes wounds like d.instability
4: all daemons -1 ward save
5: affects enemies and nurgle units, through a D6 on a 6 use 5" template S4, DS:
6: affects enemies and tzeentch units: on a 6 D6 hits with S4 DS:3, poison, ignore cover
7: nothing
8: affects enemies and khorne units: on a 6 D6 hits with S6, Ds:-, ignore cover, rending
9: affects enemies and slaanesh: 3" template S8, Ds3
10: +1 wardsave for daemons
11: enemy psiker test on Leadership with 3D6, if failed he dies and a new herold is born
12: a new core unit of is summoned, 2D6+3 models

5 represent Tzeentch Deamons attacking Nurgle units as well as enemies during the Warpstorm.
6 is Nurgle deamons who strikes Tzeentch Deamons
8 is Slaanesh Deamons attacking Khorne Deamons
9 is Khorne Deamons hurling Xplody Skulls of flames to Slaanesh Deamons.

Now if you play a lets say a Khorne Monotheist list, except for 8, the other results hurts the ennemy, and 2,3,4 are bad and 7 doesn't do anything.

The fluff behind it, i think, is that the Warpstorm is sending outburst of Warp power from a perticular Gods Domain on the battlefield,that hits the enemie and the Hated Gods soldiers.

But this is the Fantasy chart of Warpstorm.

So expect something similar for 40k

I don't think that apploes to fantasy, makes reference to rending, and ignore cover. that doesn't make sense.

AS with all the other 6th Special Chars , i thin the Warlord trait that says ," Your CC attacks are all ID", will be the trait for the Skulltaker, or maybe Hatred, but i have a gut feeling for the CC ID.

From http://www.gw-fanworld.net/showthread.php/182161-D%C3%A4monen-2013/page47

zeentch Chariot thing has two fire modes - Stbd AP3 Torrent, and 18" S9AP2 Assault 3

Screamers are basically identical, except they lose Eternal Warrior
Flamers got mega-nerfed ... largely the same, possibly 3 points cheaper if I'm reading correctly, but their weapons became S4AP4 flamers

Eternal Warrior is largely gone
This will make Daemons players upset in weird ways (WHAT, THEY ARE DAEMONS!?!) but actually makes a ton of sense fluff-wise. Daemons are eternal in the warp ... on the material plane they are bound to existence by the physical form they are occupying or holding onto through sheer power ... devastating damage to their corporal hosts makes it very difficult for them to remain on the material plane. Hence, destruction from things like Instant Death would actually be MORE devastating to Daemons, b/c as soon as it hits them they're going to largely vanish back into the ether, leaving nothing or a completely different looking corpse-host behind.

Skulltaker, btw, seems to still be eternal. All the other dudes, including Greater Daemons, are not. This makes them a bit Enfeeble / rad grenade bait under certain situations, but isn't a HUGE dealbreaker otherwise. If Kairos is T5 still, this is worst for him ... b/c he can suddenly be a grounding test away from game over if he takes an Enfeeble or similar effect.

From MVBrandt:

You roll this in the shooting phase, apparently. The snake eyes isn't as bad as people feared. Still kinda sucks. On the flipside, boxcars means you get a potentially very expensive scoring unit of choice added to your army. Kinda cray cray.

Instability seems to be fearless to shooting based morale checks, but not in CC. In CC, you take extra wounds for each # you fail your LD test by. That said, boxcars poofs the entire unit, and snake eyes regenerates all the damage you suffered in that combat (so, yes, you could whittle a screamer unit down to a single wounded model w/ a nice charge, and if they snake eyes their Instability test, see them all come back to life as if the combat never happened to them).

Kairos apparently has only a 4++, and I heard somewhere that his re-roll only applies to invul saves now. His powers also seem a little whack / difficult to use properly / oriented around his two heads. It would be GW-ish to see him get nerfed, since so many Daemons players use him. Additionally, looks like plaguebearers got the worst of it with the nerf bat ... getting cheaper, but also dropping to T4 and losing FNP (though there are ways to give it back apparently).

Daemon Princes are indeed HQ, but taking a standard or named Greater Daemon of their mark lets you take them as Heavy Support anyway. They seem to have largely gotten more expensive, especially if you want wings.

 Acardia wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 pretre wrote:

sninsch on Warseer wrote:
from gw fanworld:

warpstorm table:
2: all units take a d. instability test
3: one daemon char tests on Leadership with 3D6 and takes wounds like d.instability
4: all daemons -1 ward save
5: affects enemies and nurgle units, through a D6 on a 6 use 5" template S4, DS:
6: affects enemies and tzeentch units: on a 6 D6 hits with S4 DS:3, poison, ignore cover
7: nothing
8: affects enemies and khorne units: on a 6 D6 hits with S6, Ds:-, ignore cover, rending
9: affects enemies and slaanesh: 3" template S8, Ds3
10: +1 wardsave for daemons
11: enemy psiker test on Leadership with 3D6, if failed he dies and a new herold is born
12: a new core unit of is summoned, 2D6+3 models

5 represent Tzeentch Deamons attacking Nurgle units as well as enemies during the Warpstorm.
6 is Nurgle deamons who strikes Tzeentch Deamons
8 is Slaanesh Deamons attacking Khorne Deamons
9 is Khorne Deamons hurling Xplody Skulls of flames to Slaanesh Deamons.

Now if you play a lets say a Khorne Monotheist list, except for 8, the other results hurts the ennemy, and 2,3,4 are bad and 7 doesn't do anything.

The fluff behind it, i think, is that the Warpstorm is sending outburst of Warp power from a perticular Gods Domain on the battlefield,that hits the enemie and the Hated Gods soldiers.

But this is the Fantasy chart of Warpstorm.

So expect something similar for 40k

I don't think that apploes to fantasy, makes reference to rending, and ignore cover. that doesn't make sense.

There is No AP, but a DS value, It says Ward saves and not invulnerable saves and the #12 Says "Core units" and not Troop units, so its 3 Fantasy-ish hints Vs 3 40k-ish hint, but i suspect it to be a mix up of the two Charts.

Might be wrong though.

Quite surprised if screamers stay unchanged.

Given we're dealing with both 40k and fantasy rumors simultaneously I wouldn't be surprised about people getting rules mixed up.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:


There is No AP, but a DS value, It says Ward saves and not invulnerable saves and the #12 Says "Core units" and not Troop units, so its 3 Fantasy-ish hints Vs 3 40k-ish hint, but i suspect it to be a mix up of the two Charts.

Might be wrong though.

Translation errors. GW fanworld is a German site.

- DS means "Durchschlag" in German which is "penetration" in English and thus DS = AP
- Ward saves is the literal translation for non-armor saves, can be applied to both but much more used in WHFB.
- "Core units" refers to WHFB too, they're called "Kerneinheiten" in German.

Overall, looks like a mix of a WHFB and WH40k chart but I'd say that it's for 40k and most errors are translation errors.

From comments on Faeit:

epis tally nerfed compared to previous chart

0-6 wounds no effect
7+ +1 strength
1x+ +1 toughness
1x+ poison 2+
2x+ feel no pain 4+

ive put x as some numbers as i cant remember perfectly what the exact amount was

Would match up with a way of getting T5 back for PB's. Not sure how to feel though.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
There is No AP, but a DS value, It says Ward saves and not invulnerable saves and the #12 Says "Core units" and not Troop units, so its 3 Fantasy-ish hints Vs 3 40k-ish hint, but i suspect it to be a mix up of the two Charts.

Might be wrong though.

Or it might be fake.

Or T8 Great Unclean Ones..

yeah,

 Swara wrote:
From comments on Faeit:

epis tally nerfed compared to previous chart

0-6 wounds no effect
7+ +1 strength
1x+ +1 toughness
1x+ poison 2+
2x+ feel no pain 4+

ive put x as some numbers as i cant remember perfectly what the exact amount was

Would match up with a way of getting T5 back for PB's. Not sure how to feel though.

Boom!
with CSM/CD including epi' allies, PlagueMarines will rock! going up to strength5 toughness6 FNP4+

Panic...

 Panic wrote:
yeah,

 Swara wrote:
From comments on Faeit:

epis tally nerfed compared to previous chart

0-6 wounds no effect
7+ +1 strength
1x+ +1 toughness
1x+ poison 2+
2x+ feel no pain 4+

ive put x as some numbers as i cant remember perfectly what the exact amount was

Would match up with a way of getting T5 back for PB's. Not sure how to feel though.

Boom!
with CSM/CD including epi' allies, PlagueMarines will rock! going up to strength5 toughness6 FNP4+



Panic...

But it goes up in increment's of 7 (Nurgle's number). For most armies, if you have killed 28 models, you are halfway to winning at least anyway xD

Not to say it isn't good, but it's a well needed nerf on the original table

 Panic wrote:
yeah,

 Swara wrote:
From comments on Faeit:

epis tally nerfed compared to previous chart

0-6 wounds no effect
7+ +1 strength
1x+ +1 toughness
1x+ poison 2+
2x+ feel no pain 4+

ive put x as some numbers as i cant remember perfectly what the exact amount was

Would match up with a way of getting T5 back for PB's. Not sure how to feel though.

Boom!
with CSM/CD including epi' allies, PlagueMarines will rock! going up to strength5 toughness6 FNP4+

Panic...

Panic, I'm afraid from the rumors, it seems Epidemus no longer affects non Chaos Daemon allies.

 Panic wrote:
yeah,

 Swara wrote:
From comments on Faeit:

epis tally nerfed compared to previous chart

0-6 wounds no effect
7+ +1 strength
1x+ +1 toughness
1x+ poison 2+
2x+ feel no pain 4+

ive put x as some numbers as i cant remember perfectly what the exact amount was

Would match up with a way of getting T5 back for PB's. Not sure how to feel though.

Boom!
with CSM/CD including epi' allies, PlagueMarines will rock! going up to strength5 toughness6 FNP4+

Panic...

If it works outside of the codex. Several things in the 6th books so far have been very specific about affecting only the units within that book/primary detachment only.

I'm oddly liking the rumors. Even with the randomness just taking the deepstrike and wave approach out of the codex has made it playable, or so it seems. A lot is going to come down to point costs and troop specific items.

yeah,

 Eldarain wrote:

If it works outside of the codex. Several things in the 6th books so far have been very specific about affecting only the units within that book/primary detachment only.

I think that would be a major change as the previous codex went out of it's way to use the 'followers of nurgle' line and seemed to go down well with everyone.
But it's possible that GW would change a rule that no one had a problem with! and disppointing if your correct.

Panic..

@Panic

No one had a problem with it? Maybe you haven't been party to all the discussions since 6th dropped as to what effects who between the two codexes. There were a lot of issues with that rule. And the Followers of Nurgle line was written years before they were going to put allies in the game (i.e. written for 5th, not 6th.)

The approach to daemonic rewards seems bonkers at first blush -- who's going to spend points on a random weapon? But the base "0" weapon option makes it work.

Chaos <> randomness, but then the warp is stormy and fickle too. And I think the random components should bring some sense of that to gameplay in a better way than the old daemonic assault rule, and be significant without being either crippling or game-winning.

 gorgon wrote:
The approach to daemonic rewards seems bonkers at first blush -- who's going to spend points on a random weapon? But the base "0" weapon option makes it work.

Chaos <> randomness, but then the warp is stormy and fickle too. And I think the random components should bring some sense of that to gameplay in a better way than the old daemonic assault rule, and be significant without being either crippling or game-winning.

Sense of gameplay? I can't ever have control of my army. Even daemonic assault wasn't that bad compared to having randomised wargear.

If it's fully randomised Wargear, a shelf or eBay awaits....

I like the fact there is enough random to ensure, at least a few thing's will go really well for you, even if some don't. The odd's of having a game where only bad stuff happens to you, is greatly diminished by the sheer amount of random things there are.

All of these conflicting rumors are killing my insides. I'd be more prone to Beleive the more recent ones though.

9 point horrors with Mastery Levels though... that could be awesome.... They sure did go down from 19 to 9 real quick though.

What's a tens digit between friends?

BOLS http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/02/monster-chaos-daemons-rumors-in-german.html

The old placement of the army is gone.
No flyers, but flying MCs.
Demons belong to a god and have hatred to demons of an opposing god. Furthermore a Slaanesh Herald for example can't joint nurgle demons.
Khorne: Furios charge, HoW with chariot is S7
Tzeentch: +3 on Ld for casting PSI, reroll of failded inv. saves of 1
Nurgle: Shrouded, slow (don't remember the english rule name), every unit consisting just of Nurgle Demons counts equiped with defence grenade
Slaanesh: Rending and fleet, Slaanesh-only unit runs D6+3". Slaanesh cavallerie runs 6" more. Vehicles (no walker) move 3" more in the shooting phase.

Demonic Instability
Units with these rule can't be joined by a model without these role. Unit pass every Ld., pinning or fear test. If the demons are loosing a CC they must test with 2D6. The difference between mod. Ld and dice roll is the number of additional wounds without saves!
Double 1: Every lost wound in this phase is restored. Every removed model comes back.
Double 6: Remove the whole unit.

Warlord:
1) Every CC weapon of the warlord gains instant death.
2)Warlord and unit has hatred against everyone
3) As long as the WL is alive every enemy gets -1 for fear tests
4) Friendly units choosen from these codex in 12" of the WL can reroll failed demonic instability tests
5) As long as the WL is alive you can reroll every roll on the warpfire table
6) As long as the WL was on the table at the beginning of the turn, every unit with the rule demon (including from Codex: Chaos) coming via deepstrike won't scatter if the first model is placed in 6" of the WL

Warpfire table
Is only active when demons are the main army. Role 2D6 at the beginn of the demon shooting phase and apply the result.
2) Every unit with demonic inst. (friend and foe) has to test for it
3) Choose randomly one character with demonic inst. rule. Test with 3D6. Wounds can only applied to the character.
4) Every unit with demon gets -1 for inv. saves until next roll on the table
5) Roll 1D6 for every unit not in CC which contains at least one model with the sign(?) of nurgle or demon of nurgle. If you roll a six place the 5" template on the model of the unit and scatter as normal. S4 AP5 for friend and foe, ignores cover.
6) Like Nr. 5 just for Tzeentch. D6 hits with S4 AP3. Ingores cover, poison (4+), vehicles get a hit at side armour.
7) Nothing happens.
8) Roll one D6 for every Khorne unit or enemy unit not in CC. On a six - D6 hits with S6 AP-. Ignores cover and rending, vehicles get a hit on the side armour.
9) Roll one D6 for every Slaanesh unit or enemy unit not in CC. On a six - place 3" template. Every unit (friend and foe) gets one hit for every model with S8 AP 3. Count as barrage weapon.
10) Every demon gets +1 on the inv. save.
11) Choose random one enemy Psyker (no vehicle, no demon, must be on the table). Has to take Ld test with 3D6, if he fails, he will be removed. Place a new herald of your choice without upgrades within 6". Not allowed to charge.
12) Place instantly a new unit with 2D6+3 demons (Bloodletters, pink horrors, demonettes or plague bearers, your choice) via deep strike,

Demons have 6+ armour, some have better saves (blood demon has 3+).
Blood demon no eternal warrior. The skulltaker(?) has eternal warrior and 3+ armour. Skarbrand and Karanak don't have eternal warrior. Lord of Change is Mastery Lv. 2 (divination and change(?)) and flying MC.
11 to15 pink horrors generate two warppoints, 16 to 20 horrors three warppoints. Kairos has a 4+ inv. save. Each of Kairos heads is a Lv. 4 Psyker. Both heads knew every change spell. In addition gains the right head on power from pyro and one divination. Left head - one pyro and one telepathy. Have to decide which head you use these turn. Can reroll one D6 every player turn (even from 2D6 or 3D6).
The blue Tzeentch demons are no psykers, but can use one power from the rulebook rolled with the dice without psy test.
Changeling in basecontact can replace one his stats (WS, S, T, I and/ or A) with one the enemy.
Big plague demon has mastery lv. 1 and plague and biomanty.
Nurgle slime beast can charge in the enemy phase! Ku'Gath can give wounds back to Nurgle Swarms.
Epidemus and his special rule
Count every unsaved wound caused by a demon of nurgle (friend and foe). Count even lost wounds saved by fnp or reanimation protocolls. Every Nurgle unit in 6" of Epidemus gains following bonus (cumulative)
7+: +1 strength
14+: +1 toughness
21+: poison (2+)
28+: fnp (4+)

Keeper of secrets has prefered enemy Eldar/ Dark Eldar. Mastery Lv. 1 telepathy and Slaanesh party lore.
The mask can reroll every failed inv. save. Has different dance.
There are chaos furies (maybe chaos harpyies in english).

Flame weapon of tzeentch - SR warpflame. At the end of every phase a unit with an unsaved wound caused by it has to make a Toughness test. Fail - D3 more hits withour armour or cover, passed - gains fnp 6+. If the unit has already fnp it be better by +1.
A unit hit by a skullcannon can be charged withount Ini loss caused by difficult terrain.
Axe of Khorne: Instant death by a to wound roll of 6.
Mutated warpsword (Tzeentch) If the bearer kills an enemy Character or MC roll a D6. On a +2 it be replaced with a chaos spawn.
Warp...(Tzeentch): A character or MC killed by the staff of change will explode. Every unit in D6" will gain D6 S5 AP- hits.
Plagueweapon: Models with one unsaved wound caused by these weapon have to pass a Toughness test or will loose another wound (no armour or cover).
Sword (Slaanesh). Like plagueweapon, but with Ini test.

A lot of characters don't buy equiment. They buy gifts in three different levels for points. What exacly these gifts are will be choosen random (D6). Roll at the same time as for the Warlord trait. One model can't have a gift twice (reroll), but you can have a gift more than one time in your army. You can replace one of the gifts with the 0. You gain a weapon or artefact for it (just one example given in the german text - Blade with Ap2, mastercrafted and special weapon).

Skarbrand or Blood Demon make demon princes of Khorne to Heavy Support instead of HQ.
Kairos and Lord of Change do the same for Tzeentch.
Ku'Gath and Big Nurgle demon for Nurgle.
Lord of Secrets does it for Slaanesh.

Damonprince 145 points, has to choose one god:
Khorne 15p.
Tzeentch 25p.
Nurgle 15p.
Slaanesh 10p.
Can be a flying MC for 40 points.
Up to 50 points for gifts (Lv. 1 gift 10p. Lv. 2 20p. Lv. 3 30).
Demon Prince not can be a psyker (not Khorne)
Mastery Lv. 1 25p.
Lv. 2 50p.
Lv. 3 75p.

Heralds counts only as a half HQ choice. They have special presences. which can be upgraded and give the unit a bonus.
Icons can be upgraded for unique effects and instruments can get more units out of reserve and give you rerolls on the warpstorm table.

Thats all. I hope that my bad english is better than the automatic translator.

proper translation, just scroll down

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/02/monster-chaos-daemons-rumors-in-german.html

randomguy8891 wrote:
proper translation, just scroll down

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/02/monster-chaos-daemons-rumors-in-german.html

Updated my post with your version.

Lol, read through the first one and it hurt my head a bit
Most of this looks good though. Can't wait to get my hands on that damn codex!

Well, I was half way thru doing a proper translation when this was posted.......

I'm glad Daemon Princes won't be stuck as HQ at least (The Blood Demon = Bloodthirster I presume) if those are true.

 Shandara wrote:
I'm glad Daemon Princes won't be stuck as HQ at least (The Blood Demon = Bloodthirster I presume) if those are true.

Gonna be one expensive list if you're getting a Greater Daemon and then stacking Daemon Princes.

skarsol wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
I'm glad Daemon Princes won't be stuck as HQ at least (The Blood Demon = Bloodthirster I presume) if those are true.

Gonna be one expensive list if you're getting a Greater Daemon and then stacking Daemon Princes.

Flying circus?

Wonder if there will finally be a Ku'gath model?

I'm REALLY hoping we don't see Daemons moving toward Horde builds. Daemons were my elite army. I already have Orks.

 matphat wrote:
I'm REALLY hoping we don't see Daemons moving toward Horde builds. Daemons were my elite army. I already have Orks.

It is more likely that you will be able to do either. From the sounds of it, Monster Mash / Flying Circus or Hordes of Chaos.

I like a lot of what I'm seeing here.

Flying circus????

 pretre wrote:

 matphat wrote:
I'm REALLY hoping we don't see Daemons moving toward Horde builds. Daemons were my elite army. I already have Orks.

It is more likely that you will be able to do either. From the sounds of it, Monster Mash / Flying Circus or Hordes of Chaos.

That would be much preferable.

UltraPrime wrote:
Flying circus????

As many flying MC as you can get in a list.

 pretre wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:
Flying circus????

As many flying MC as you can get in a list.

I'm not sure it'll be viable in the new Codex. Fateweaver was one of the things that made it all work, and him getting nerfed to 4++ is not great. Losing Eternal Warrior on greater Daemons is going to make putting that many points into a Flying Circus a risky proposition. Especially as some else pointed out earlier, if you get enfeebled and fail a grounding test, you're done.

The Changeling swapping stats? Especially Strength and Toughness! Good insurance for a large unit of Horrors against things like the Bloodthirster, Swarm Lord or Daemon Prince.

Get stuck in a Challenge with him and he'll inflict Instant Death on them.

 undertow wrote:

 pretre wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:
Flying circus????

As many flying MC as you can get in a list.

I'm not sure it'll be viable in the new Codex. Fateweaver was one of the things that made it all work, and him getting nerfed to 4++ is not great. Losing Eternal Warrior on greater Daemons is going to make putting that many points into a Flying Circus a risky proposition. Especially as some else pointed out earlier, if you get enfeebled and fail a grounding test, you're done.

/shrug

Have to wait and find out.

Now, I wonder if the Warpstorm chart will affect Daemons if you only have them as allies.

That could be huge.

 Sasori wrote:
Now, I wonder if the Warpstorm chart will affect Daemons if you only have them as allies.

That could be huge.

I imagine not.

 pretre wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Now, I wonder if the Warpstorm chart will affect Daemons if you only have them as allies.

That could be huge.

I imagine not.

Yeah, I didn't see the other page updated. Too bad.

Daemons are becoming more and more appealing as a primary army, rather than an allied detachment.

I read somewhere that the Warpstorm chart only applies if Chaos Daemons are your Primary Detachment.

 pretre wrote:
BOLS http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/02/monster-chaos-daemons-rumors-in-german.html

A lot of characters don't buy equiment. They buy gifts in three different levels for points. What exacly these gifts are will be choosen random (D6). Roll at the same time as for the Warlord trait. One model can't have a gift twice (reroll), but you can have a gift more than one time in your army. You can replace one of the gifts with the 0. You gain a weapon or artefact for it (just one example given in the german text - Blade with Ap2, mastercrafted and special weapon).

This alone makes me question even buying this Codex. If I can't even customise my characters to my liking, something I love to do, why even take non named Heralds? This isn't "cinematic", this is just a big feth you.

Goddammit Phil Kelly, you ruined this too?

A more accurate translation:

Daemons:
Daemon belong to a specific god and have USR Hatred for their opposing god (Nurgle/Tzeentch, Khorne/Slaanesh). Herald of one god cannot join a unit from another god.
Khorne USR: Rage, Re-Roll Charge distance
Tzeentch: +3 LD for Psykic tests, Re-Roll Saves of 1
Nurgle: Slow and Purposefull, Shrouded, Defensive Grenades
Slaanesh: Rending, Move thru Cover, +3” to run distance for infantry, +6 “to run distance for cavalry (only if the whole unit is cavalry), +3” Flat out for chariots

Daemonic Instability:
Units with this USR may not be joined by units without this USR. Unit passes all Fear, Pinning and Moral tests. If a Unit with this USR looses in Close Combat, it must test for Instability on 2D6.
If the test is failed, the Unit takes wounds equal to the difference between its LD value and the roll.
If you roll Double 1, all wounds lost in this combat are restored. Place lost models back on the table
If you roll Double 6, the whole unit is removed from play.

Warlord Table:
War Lord Table:
1) Warlord gains Instant Death USR
2) Warlord and his unit gain Hatred (Everything) USR
3) As long as the War Lord is alive, your opponent test for Fear at -1 LD
4) As Long as the War Lord is alive, units within 12” of the War Lord may re-roll Daemonic Instability
5) As long as the War Lord is alive, you may re-roll results on the Warp Storm Table
6) Units with the Daemon USR may Deep Strike within 6” of the War Lord without scatter.

Warp Storm Table:
The Warp Storm Table is only used when Chaos Daemons are your Primary Detachment. Roll on the Warp Storm Table at the beginning of the Daemon Players Shooting Phase
2) The Storm is receding: All units with the Daemonic Instability USR (Friend and Foe) immediately test for Daemonic Instability
3) Punishment of the Gods: A random character model with Daemonic Instability (Friend or Foe) immediately tests for Daemonic Instability on 3D6. Wounds suffered in this manner can only be allocated to that model.
4) Warp Quake: All models with the Daemon USR suffer a -1 penalty to their saves until the next roll on this chart (friend or foe)
5) Storm of Fire: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Nurgle USR or Mark of Nurgle or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, place a large blast marker on one of the models in the unit. Scatter 2D6. All models under the template suffer a S4 AP5 Ignore Cover, Pinning hit ).
6) Glorious Rot: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Tzeentch or Mark of Tzeentch or enemy unit not locked in combat. On a roll of a 6, the unit suffers D6 S4 AP3 Poison (4+) hits. Vehicles are hit on Side Armor.
7) Calm Warp: Nothing happens
8) The Dark Prince Thirsts: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Khorne USR or Mark of Khorne or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, the unit suffers D6 S6 AP- Ignore Cover, Rending hits.
9) Khornes Rage: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Slaanesh USR or Mark of Slaanesh or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, center a small blast marker on a model of your choice in the unit and scatter 2D6. Models under the blast template suffer a S8 AP 3 Pinning hit.
10) Warp Flood: All units with the Daemon USR gain +1 to all saving throws until the next roll on the Warp Storm Table (friend or foe)
11) Daemonic Possesion: A random enemy non-vehicle .Psyker that is not a daemon must pass a Leadership test on 3D6. If the test is failed, the Psyker is removed from play. Place a Herald of a god of your choice within 6" of the removed model. The Herald does not receive any upgrades.
12) Blessing of the Warp: A new unit of 2D6+3 Bloodletters, Pink Horrors, Daemonetts or Plaguebearers (your choice) arrives via deep strike.

All Daemons have a 6+ Armor Save. Some daemons (for example Bloodthirster have a 3+)
Bloodthirster lost EW
Skulltaker has EW and 3+ Armor
Lord Of Change is Level 2 Psyker and Flying FMC
11-15 Pink Horrors generate 2 Warp Points, 16-20 generate 3
Fateweaver has a 4++, Level 4 Psyker. He knows all Tzeentch powers. Right Head knows one power from Pyromancy and Divination, Left Head knows one power from Telepathy and Pyromancy. Declare which head you want to use at the beginning of each turn. May re-roll a single D6 each phase.
Blue Scribes are not Psykers, but generate one power each turn from the main rule book. They can use that power without rolling a psykic test.
The Changeling may exchange any of his stats with an enemy non-vehicle model stat in base contact (WS, S, W, I, A) until the end of the turn
Great Unclean One is Psyker Level 1, Biomancy and Nurgle
Beasts of Nurgle can charge in the opponents turn.
Ku'Gath can regenerate wounds on Nurgling Swarms
Epi only effects Daemons of Nurgle within 6" and tally works based on unsaved wounds caused by Daemons of Nurgle:
7+: +1 Strength
14+: +1 Toughness
21+: 2+ poison
28+: 4+ Feel No Pain
Keeper of Secrets has Prefered Enemy Eldar and Dark Eldar. Psyker Level 1, Telepathy and Slaanesh
The Mask re-rolls all failed saves. It has multiple different dances
There are Chaos Furies
Flamers of Tzeench: If they caused a wound, take a test every turn for that unit. If the test is failed, you take D3 wounds, if you pass the test, you gain FNP (6+)

Skull Cannon: If you assault a unit that has been hit by a shot from the Skull Cannon, you suffer no initiative penalty for assaulting thru difficult terrain.

Axe of Khorne: Instant Death on a roll of 6 to wound.
Mutated Warpknife (Tzeentch): If it kills a enemy Character or MC, that model is turned into a Chaos Spawn on a roll of 2+
Warp Poisoning: If a Character or MC looses its last wound due to a Close Combat attack from the Staff of Change, all units within D6 inches (friend and foe) suffer D6 hits at S5 AP -
Mace of Disease: Models that suffer an unsaved wound from this weapon must pass a Toughness Test or suffer an additional wound. No saves of any kind can be taken to prevent this additional wound.

Many Characters cannot buy equipment, but can buy Minor, Major and Legendary enhancements for a certain point cost. These are randomly determined at the same time as Warlord Traits are rolled. You may have the same enhancements more than once on each character, but the random result can only be applied once to each character. Re-roll doubles. Rolls can be exchanged for special weapons.

Minor Boons:
Result 0: (May replace roll on the chart)
Magical Weapon: Etherknife (AP2, Mastercrafted, Specialist Weapon)
Daemon of Khorne may take an Axe of Khorne instead
Daemon of Tzeench may take a Staff of Change instead
Daemon of Nurgle mau take a Mace of Disease instead
Daemon of Slaanesh may take a Ghost Sword(?) instead


Daemon Princes:
Skarbrand and Bloodthirster make Khorne DP Heavy Support
Fateweaver and Lord of Change make Tzeentch DP Heavy Support
Ku'Gath and Great Unclean One make DP of Nurgle Heavy Support
Keeper of Secrets makes DP of Slaanesh Heavy Support

DP costs 145 pts
Khorne +15 pts
Tzeentch +25 pts
Nurgle +15 pts
Slaanesh +10 pts
Daemonic Flight 40 pts
May take up to 50 points of gifts
none khorne DPs can buy Psyker levels up to level 3 at 25pts/lvl

Heralds may still be taken 2 per HQ slot. Every Herald adds a Boon to the unit he joins.

Icons can improve certain effects. Instruments can "summon" reserves or modify the result of the Warp Storm Table.

Thanks for the translation, Mohoc!

Well, the Warlord trait table is still pretty awesome, only number 3 is a real dud. Every table has to have at least one.

So eppy's tally only works on stuff within 6"? Ouch! I like how GW hypes up Nurgle for CSM, then slaps Nurgle daemons down. Lol.

Toughness five Great Unclean Ones for the win!!

 blood reaper wrote:

 pretre wrote:
BOLS http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/02/monster-chaos-daemons-rumors-in-german.html

A lot of characters don't buy equiment. They buy gifts in three different levels for points. What exacly these gifts are will be choosen random (D6). Roll at the same time as for the Warlord trait. One model can't have a gift twice (reroll), but you can have a gift more than one time in your army. You can replace one of the gifts with the 0. You gain a weapon or artefact for it (just one example given in the german text - Blade with Ap2, mastercrafted and special weapon).

This alone makes me question even buying this Codex. If I can't even customise my characters to my liking, something I love to do, why even take non named Heralds? This isn't "cinematic", this is just a big feth you.

Goddammit Phil Kelly, you ruined this too?

This is basically how I feel. I can't even make my own army list any more, I just roll on some tables and stuff comes out.

Huh... That sounds like D&D actually. I thought I was playing 40k.

updated translation above.

Ugh I was hoping for a fun Nurgle ally for my CSM :(

CleverAntics wrote:
Toughness five Great Unclean Ones for the win!!

Eh...?! They are not toughness 5, are they!?

I'm really liking the Warpstorm chart. It's not NEAR as bad as I thought it was going to be. It adds some downsides, but a lot of upsides.

Between that and the significantly better Warlord Traits, CSMs may end up second fiddle to the Daemons.

Hm.... interesting leaks.

 Sasori wrote:
I'm really liking the Warpstorm chart. It's not NEAR as bad as I thought it was going to be. It adds some downsides, but a lot of upsides.

Between that and the significantly better Warlord Traits, CSMs may end up second fiddle to the Daemons.

What I like about it, is that it seems to discourage mixing the god's of the army up too much, as for each additional god, you have a bit more of a chance of getting them blasted by an irritable god, who doesn't like them

Evileyes wrote:
Eh...?! They are not toughness 5, are they!?

No, no. I was giving mere speculation based on the supposed toughness four Plaguebearers, as it'd seem most logical. So far, it seems Kelly's butchered Nurgle; at least as far as Plaguebearers go. If the new hotness is -1 toughness for Nurgle, then so it shall be!

Evileyes wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I'm really liking the Warpstorm chart. It's not NEAR as bad as I thought it was going to be. It adds some downsides, but a lot of upsides.

Between that and the significantly better Warlord Traits, CSMs may end up second fiddle to the Daemons.

What I like about it, is that it seems to discourage mixing the god's of the army up too much, as for each additional god, you have a bit more of a chance of getting them blasted by an irritable god, who doesn't like them

Yeah, it has some really crushing downsides, but the upsides are pretty great. I think it's pretty fluffy, and it seems like it will work out pretty well gameplay wise.

CleverAntics wrote:

Evileyes wrote:
Eh...?! They are not toughness 5, are they!?

No, no. I was giving mere speculation based on the supposed toughness four Plaguebearers, as it'd seem most logical. So far, it seems Kelly's butchered Nurgle; at least as far as Plaguebearers go. If the new hotness is -1 toughness for Nurgle, then so it shall be!

Rumor I saw on them, they were toughness 8, which was why I was so shocked xD

Evileyes wrote:

CleverAntics wrote:

Evileyes wrote:
Eh...?! They are not toughness 5, are they!?

No, no. I was giving mere speculation based on the supposed toughness four Plaguebearers, as it'd seem most logical. So far, it seems Kelly's butchered Nurgle; at least as far as Plaguebearers go. If the new hotness is -1 toughness for Nurgle, then so it shall be!

Rumor I saw on them, they were toughness 8, which was why I was so shocked xD

If the other greater demons are T7 I imagine GUO would be T8.

I missed the T4 plaguebearers though. Where/who is that from?

So pink horrors keep the 4++, but can now re-roll 1s, *and* they've got a 10 point price decrease? Their shooting weapon must have been nerfed...if not I will gladly buy a shed load of them

 BryllCream wrote:
So pink horrors keep the 4++, but can now re-roll 1s, *and* they've got a 10 point price decrease? Their shooting weapon must have been nerfed...if not I will gladly buy a shed load of them

That's a mixing of the 2 rumors sadly. They will either be that cheap, or have the extra save.

Either of them would be pretty hefty. As they stand at the minute they're maybe 2 points too expensive, if they went down to 9 points it'd be obscene. Re-rolling 1s would only increase survivability by 1/12 though, which isn't that great.

Evileyes wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
So pink horrors keep the 4++, but can now re-roll 1s, *and* they've got a 10 point price decrease? Their shooting weapon must have been nerfed...if not I will gladly buy a shed load of them

That's a mixing of the 2 rumors sadly. They will either be that cheap, or have the extra save.

It's been rumored a while, that the CD would mirror the CSM Daemon traits, and seems to so far. I could see both....

a Tad off topic, but if Daemons are getting all of these crazy charts, I wonder what the Ork Codex is going to look like...

 Sasori wrote:

Evileyes wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
So pink horrors keep the 4++, but can now re-roll 1s, *and* they've got a 10 point price decrease? Their shooting weapon must have been nerfed...if not I will gladly buy a shed load of them

That's a mixing of the 2 rumors sadly. They will either be that cheap, or have the extra save.

It's been rumored a while, that the CD would mirror the CSM Daemon traits, and seems to so far. I could see both....

a Tad off topic, but if Daemons are getting all of these crazy charts, I wonder what the Ork Codex is going to look like...

I think chaos are getting it because...well...it's in the name, chaos. Note that the dark angels book, had very few if any crazy charts. I think it's just a chaos daemons/CSM thing

But, I bet they will make a better shokk attack gun chart. And a new ramshackle chart...actually, you might be right xD

 Sasori wrote:

a Tad off topic, but if Daemons are getting all of these crazy charts, I wonder what the Ork Codex is going to look like...

Having flashbacks to WAAAG, the Orks and Ere' We Go from RT days. You want tables, WE GOT TABLES!

Back OT. Fantasy appears to have a similar Warpstorm table but is tied to the winds of magic.

 Sasori wrote:
I'm really liking the Warpstorm chart. It's not NEAR as bad as I thought it was going to be. It adds some downsides, but a lot of upsides.

Between that and the significantly better Warlord Traits, CSMs may end up second fiddle to the Daemons.

Take it with a grain of salt.
For all we know that's come crazy German kid laughing at how he pranked us.

What it does do is this -- if the warpstorm blasts can be fired from the god-specific units, there is every reason to take troops from every god.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I'm really liking the Warpstorm chart. It's not NEAR as bad as I thought it was going to be. It adds some downsides, but a lot of upsides.

Between that and the significantly better Warlord Traits, CSMs may end up second fiddle to the Daemons.

Take it with a grain of salt.
For all we know that's come crazy German kid laughing at how he pranked us.

What it does do is this -- if the warpstorm blasts can be fired from the god-specific units, there is every reason to take troops from every god.

That's an interesting question. I wonder if it is "fired" at all. I read it to mean if the units in question rolls a 6 they take the hits themselves. Which would make single or possibly dual god lists better from a warp storm perspective.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I'm really liking the Warpstorm chart. It's not NEAR as bad as I thought it was going to be. It adds some downsides, but a lot of upsides.

Between that and the significantly better Warlord Traits, CSMs may end up second fiddle to the Daemons.

Take it with a grain of salt.
For all we know that's come crazy German kid laughing at how he pranked us.

What it does do is this -- if the warpstorm blasts can be fired from the god-specific units, there is every reason to take troops from every god.

It sounds more like Imotekhs lightning to me. I imagine mechanically, if true, is going to be very close to Lord of the Storm.

Any rumors of Chaos Spawn?

A more accurate translation:

Daemons:
Daemon belong to a specific god and have USR Hatred for their opposing god (Nurgle/Tzeentch, Khorne/Slaanesh). Herald of one god cannot join a unit from another god.
Khorne USR: Rage, Re-Roll Charge distance
Tzeentch: +3 LD for Psykic tests, Re-Roll Saves of 1
Nurgle: Slow and Purposefull, Shrouded, Defensive Grenades
Slaanesh: Rending, Move thru Cover, +3” to run distance for infantry, +6 “to run distance for cavalry (only if the whole unit is cavalry), +3” Flat out for chariots

Daemonic Instability:
Units with this USR may not be joined by units without this USR. Unit passes all Fear, Pinning and Moral tests. If a Unit with this USR looses in Close Combat, it must test for Instability on 2D6.
If the test is failed, the Unit takes wounds equal to the difference between its LD value and the roll.
If you roll Double 1, all wounds lost in this combat are restored. Place lost models back on the table
If you roll Double 6, the whole unit is removed from play.

Warlord Table:
War Lord Table:
1) Warlord gains Instant Death USR
2) Warlord and his unit gain Hatred (Everything) USR
3) As long as the War Lord is alive, your opponent test for Fear at -1 LD
4) As Long as the War Lord is alive, units within 12” of the War Lord may re-roll Daemonic Instability
5) As long as the War Lord is alive, you may re-roll results on the Warp Storm Table
6) Units with the Daemon USR may Deep Strike within 6” of the War Lord without scatter.

Warp Storm Table:
The Warp Storm Table is only used when Chaos Daemons are your Primary Detachment. Roll on the Warp Storm Table at the beginning of the Daemon Players Shooting Phase
2) The Storm is receding: All units with the Daemonic Instability USR (Friend and Foe) immediately test for Daemonic Instability
3) Punishment of the Gods: A random character model with Daemonic Instability (Friend or Foe) immediately tests for Daemonic Instability on 3D6. Wounds suffered in this manner can only be allocated to that model.
4) Warp Quake: All models with the Daemon USR suffer a -1 penalty to their saves until the next roll on this chart (friend or foe)
5) Storm of Fire: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Nurgle USR or Mark of Nurgle or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, place a large blast marker on one of the models in the unit. Scatter 2D6. All models under the template suffer a S4 AP5 Ignore Cover, Pinning hit ).
6) Glorious Rot: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Tzeentch or Mark of Tzeentch or enemy unit not locked in combat. On a roll of a 6, the unit suffers D6 S4 AP3 Poison (4+) hits. Vehicles are hit on Side Armor.
7) Calm Warp: Nothing happens
8) The Dark Prince Thirsts: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Khorne USR or Mark of Khorne or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, the unit suffers D6 S6 AP- Ignore Cover, Rending hits.
9) Khornes Rage: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Slaanesh USR or Mark of Slaanesh or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, center a small blast marker on a model of your choice in the unit and scatter 2D6. Models under the blast template suffer a S8 AP 3 Pinning hit.
10) Warp Flood: All units with the Daemon USR gain +1 to all saving throws until the next roll on the Warp Storm Table (friend or foe)
11) Daemonic Possesion: A random enemy non-vehicle .Psyker that is not a daemon must pass a Leadership test on 3D6. If the test is failed, the Psyker is removed from play. Place a Herald of a god of your choice within 6" of the removed model. The Herald does not receive any upgrades.
12) Blessing of the Warp: A new unit of 2D6+3 Bloodletters, Pink Horrors, Daemonetts or Plaguebearers (your choice) arrives via deep strike.

All Daemons have a 6+ Armor Save. Some daemons (for example Bloodthirster have a 3+)
Bloodthirster lost EW
Skulltaker has EW and 3+ Armor
Lord Of Change is Level 2 Psyker and Flying FMC
11-15 Pink Horrors generate 2 Warp Points, 16-20 generate 3
Fateweaver has a 4++, Level 4 Psyker. He knows all Tzeentch powers. Right Head knows one power from Pyromancy and Divination, Left Head knows one power from Telepathy and Pyromancy. Declare which head you want to use at the beginning of each turn. May re-roll a single D6 each phase.
Blue Scribes are not Psykers, but generate one power each turn from the main rule book. They can use that power without rolling a psykic test.
The Changeling may exchange any of his stats with an enemy non-vehicle model stat in base contact (WS, S, W, I, A) until the end of the turn
Great Unclean One is Psyker Level 1, Biomancy and Nurgle
Beasts of Nurgle can charge in the opponents turn.
Ku'Gath can regenerate wounds on Nurgling Swarms
Epi only effects Daemons of Nurgle within 6" and tally works based on unsaved wounds caused by Daemons of Nurgle:
7+: +1 Strength
14+: +1 Toughness
21+: 2+ poison
28+: 4+ Feel No Pain
Keeper of Secrets has Prefered Enemy Eldar and Dark Eldar. Psyker Level 1, Telepathy and Slaanesh
The Mask re-rolls all failed saves. It has multiple different dances
There are Chaos Furies
Flamers of Tzeench: If they caused a wound, take a test every turn for that unit. If the test is failed, you take D3 wounds, if you pass the test, you gain FNP (6+)

Skull Cannon: If you assault a unit that has been hit by a shot from the Skull Cannon, you suffer no initiative penalty for assaulting thru difficult terrain.

Axe of Khorne: Instant Death on a roll of 6 to wound.
Mutated Warpknife (Tzeentch): If it kills a enemy Character or MC, that model is turned into a Chaos Spawn on a roll of 2+
Warp Poisoning: If a Character or MC looses its last wound due to a Close Combat attack from the Staff of Change, all units within D6 inches (friend and foe) suffer D6 hits at S5 AP -
Mace of Disease: Models that suffer an unsaved wound from this weapon must pass a Toughness Test or suffer an additional wound. No saves of any kind can be taken to prevent this additional wound.

Many Characters cannot buy equipment, but can buy Minor, Major and Legendary enhancements for a certain point cost. These are randomly determined at the same time as Warlord Traits are rolled. You may have the same enhancements more than once on each character, but the random result can only be applied once to each character. Re-roll doubles. Rolls can be exchanged for special weapons.

Minor Boons:
Result 0: (May replace roll on the chart)
Magical Weapon: Etherknife (AP2, Mastercrafted, Specialist Weapon)
Daemon of Khorne may take an Axe of Khorne instead
Daemon of Tzeench may take a Staff of Change instead
Daemon of Nurgle mau take a Mace of Disease instead
Daemon of Slaanesh may take a Ghost Sword(?) instead


Daemon Princes:
Skarbrand and Bloodthirster make Khorne DP Heavy Support
Fateweaver and Lord of Change make Tzeentch DP Heavy Support
Ku'Gath and Great Unclean One make DP of Nurgle Heavy Support
Keeper of Secrets makes DP of Slaanesh Heavy Support

DP costs 145 pts
Khorne +15 pts
Tzeentch +25 pts
Nurgle +15 pts
Slaanesh +10 pts
Daemonic Flight 40 pts
May take up to 50 points of gifts
none khorne DPs can buy Psyker levels up to level 3 at 25pts/lvl

Heralds may still be taken 2 per HQ slot. Every Herald adds a Boon to the unit he joins.

Icons can improve certain effects. Instruments can "summon" reserves or modify the result of the Warp Storm Table.

I'm honestly liking alot of what I'm seeing here;
- Warpstorm table is nowhere near as horrificly crippling as first feared. Heck, result 10 is silly-good (espeically on Tzeentchian units!), while result 12 is just plain obnoxious!

- Daemonic Instability seems to work exactly as the current 7th ed Fantasy version, but with an added big perk/big hurt attached to it.
However, the bonus for rolling 'Insane Courage' is laguhably good!

- Kairos & The Changeling finally work they way they should have from day one... (CSM characters are going to cry over Changeling! )

- Deployment issues fixed. GK's can go suck a lemon for being donkeycaves!

- Finally getting some psychic loving.

- Those god-specific weapons look awsome! If they're indeed the 'primaris' choices, well, I need to convert me some spawn to look like my friends' favourite HQ's/Sergeants who get spawnified!

- Those Warlord Traits are overall amazing! Only a single somewhat dud option. Makes me feel sorry for anyone who's still stuck with just the crappy BRB traits.


As for the complaints of randomness...
Meh. I play Tzeentch - if anything it's totally fluffy for my army!

I know what you mean. I was initially horrified by all the rumors, Either the codex was going to be OP or just stupid. I am changing my opinion though and am looking really forward to having the codex in my hand on Friday night at midnight .

 Eldarain wrote:
That's an interesting question. I wonder if it is "fired" at all. I read it to mean if the units in question rolls a 6 they take the hits themselves. Which would make single or possibly dual god lists better from a warp storm perspective.

As anyone who has played "Settlers of Catan" knows, the 6s, and 8s are more common than 5s and 9s.

5) Roll 1D6 for every unit not in CC which contains at least one model with the sign(?) of nurgle or demon of nurgle. If you roll a six place the 5" template on the model of the unit and scatter as normal. S4 AP5 for friend and foe, ignores cover.
6) Like Nr. 5 just for Tzeentch. D6 hits with S4 AP3. Ingores cover, poison (4+), vehicles get a hit at side armour.
7) Nothing happens.
8) Roll one D6 for every Khorne unit or enemy unit not in CC. On a six - D6 hits with S6 AP-. Ignores cover and rending, vehicles get a hit on the side armour.
9) Roll one D6 for every Slaanesh unit or enemy unit not in CC. On a six - place 3" template. Every unit (friend and foe) gets one hit for every model with S8 AP 3. Count as barrage weapon.

That would give a advantage to Nurgle or Slaanesh.

 Sasori wrote:
It sounds more like Imotekhs lightning to me. I imagine mechanically, if true, is going to be very close to Lord of the Storm.

Lord of the storm to bone your own units. Yea. That seems like a very stupid rule.
I get how they 'want you to be in CC' but still...thats just stupid. What about Tzeentch horrors? Why are they punished for not being in combat?

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
That's an interesting question. I wonder if it is "fired" at all. I read it to mean if the units in question rolls a 6 they take the hits themselves. Which would make single or possibly dual god lists better from a warp storm perspective.

As anyone who has played "Settlers of Catan" knows, the 6s, and 8s are more common than 5s and 9s.

5) Roll 1D6 for every unit not in CC which contains at least one model with the sign(?) of nurgle or demon of nurgle. If you roll a six place the 5" template on the model of the unit and scatter as normal. S4 AP5 for friend and foe, ignores cover.
6) Like Nr. 5 just for Tzeentch. D6 hits with S4 AP3. Ingores cover, poison (4+), vehicles get a hit at side armour.
7) Nothing happens.
8) Roll one D6 for every Khorne unit or enemy unit not in CC. On a six - D6 hits with S6 AP-. Ignores cover and rending, vehicles get a hit on the side armour.
9) Roll one D6 for every Slaanesh unit or enemy unit not in CC. On a six - place 3" template. Every unit (friend and foe) gets one hit for every model with S8 AP 3. Count as barrage weapon.

That would give a advantage to Nurgle or Slaanesh.

 Sasori wrote:
It sounds more like Imotekhs lightning to me. I imagine mechanically, if true, is going to be very close to Lord of the Storm.

Lord of the storm to bone your own units. Yea. That seems like a very stupid rule.
I get how they 'want you to be in CC' but still...thats just stupid. What about Tzeentch horrors? Why are they punished for not being in combat?

I corrected the translation. You also roll for enemy models.

5) Storm of Fire: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Nurgle USR or Mark of Nurgle or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, place a large blast marker on one of the models in the unit. Scatter 2D6. All models under the template suffer a S4 AP5 Ignore Cover, Pinning hit ).
6) Glorious Rot: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Tzeentch or Mark of Tzeentch or enemy unit not locked in combat. On a roll of a 6, the unit suffers D6 S4 AP3 Poison (4+) hits. Vehicles are hit on Side Armor.
7) Calm Warp: Nothing happens
8) The Dark Prince Thirsts: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Khorne USR or Mark of Khorne or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, the unit suffers D6 S6 AP- Ignore Cover, Rending hits.
9) Khornes Rage: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Slaanesh USR or Mark of Slaanesh or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, center a small blast marker on a model of your choice in the unit and scatter 2D6. Models under the blast template suffer a S8 AP 3 Pinning hit.

Mohoc wrote:

Daemonic Instability:
Units with this USR may not be joined by units without this USR. Unit passes all Fear, Pinning and Moral tests. If a Unit with this USR looses in Close Combat, it must test for Instability on 2D6.
If the test is failed, the Unit takes wounds equal to the difference between its LD value and the roll.

This would make me a very sad panda. No CSM lord on juggernaut joining a squad of bloodcrushers.

Come on, GW, Daemons only have CSM as battle brothers. You might as well just say CSM lords can't join daemons. Ha! Take that silly spikey marines!

 labmouse42 wrote:

Mohoc wrote:

Daemonic Instability:
Units with this USR may not be joined by units without this USR. Unit passes all Fear, Pinning and Moral tests. If a Unit with this USR looses in Close Combat, it must test for Instability on 2D6.
If the test is failed, the Unit takes wounds equal to the difference between its LD value and the roll.

This would make me a very sad panda. No CSM lord on juggernaut joining a squad of bloodcrushers.

Come on, GW, Daemons only have CSM as battle brothers. You might as well just say CSM lords can't join daemons. Ha! Take that silly spikey marines!

Don't beat the translator!

/ducks out of the way

 labmouse42 wrote:

Mohoc wrote:

Daemonic Instability:
Units with this USR may not be joined by units without this USR. Unit passes all Fear, Pinning and Moral tests. If a Unit with this USR looses in Close Combat, it must test for Instability on 2D6.
If the test is failed, the Unit takes wounds equal to the difference between its LD value and the roll.

This would make me a very sad panda. No CSM lord on juggernaut joining a squad of bloodcrushers.

Come on, GW, Daemons only have CSM as battle brothers. You might as well just say CSM lords can't join daemons. Ha! Take that silly spikey marines!

We don't know if Daemonic Instability is on all units of the codex though.

Mohoc wrote:
I corrected the translation. You also roll for enemy models.

That works only if your fighting daemons or daemon allies.

If its true, that means there will be a few interesting side effects.
* Fewer units = better
* Nurgle and slaanesh take less hits
* Units are strongly encouraged to get into assault.

I have been putting throught to the +3" run movement. A daemonette can move ~13.5" on the first turn with that. On the second turn they can move another 6" for a total of 19.5", which places them in a safe assault range of 26.5" from their starting point. That's actually not half bad.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Mohoc wrote:
I corrected the translation. You also roll for enemy models.

That works only if your fighting daemons or daemon allies.

If its true, that means there will be a few interesting side effects.
* Fewer units = better
* Nurgle and slaanesh take less hits
* Units are strongly encouraged to get into assault.

I have been putting throught to the +3" run movement. A daemonette can move ~13.5" on the first turn with that. On the second turn they can move another 6" for a total of 19.5", which places them in a safe assault range of 26.5" from their starting point. That's actually not half bad.

What? I'm reading it as You roll for the marked units, and then ALL enemy units. Such as, with the flame storm, you roll for Nurgle units on both sides, then you roll for ALL enemy units.

Mohoc wrote:
Don't beat the translator!

/ducks out of the way

LOL, na that's not directed at you.

That's directed at the little German kid who leaked these and is laughing at the 40k community. Maybe its directed at Jervis Johnson. He's always a good culprit to take the blame.
Maybe its the beer talking, but doesn't Jervis Johnson sound like a name a porn star would use?

I think the devil is in the details. I actually quite like the warp storm table. I think of it as our heavy weapons. We don't get tanks, but poor bastard that tries to run MSU against us.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Mohoc wrote:
I corrected the translation. You also roll for enemy models.

That works only if your fighting daemons or daemon allies.

If its true, that means there will be a few interesting side effects.
* Fewer units = better
* Nurgle and slaanesh take less hits
* Units are strongly encouraged to get into assault.

I have been putting throught to the +3" run movement. A daemonette can move ~13.5" on the first turn with that. On the second turn they can move another 6" for a total of 19.5", which places them in a safe assault range of 26.5" from their starting point. That's actually not half bad.

The way it has been presented to us it potentially hits all daemons of the stated god as well as every enemy unit not engaged in combat.

 Sasori wrote:
What? I'm reading it as You roll for the marked units, and then ALL enemy units. Such as, with the flame storm, you roll for Nurgle units on both sides, then you roll for ALL enemy units.

Edit : I see. Some of the other lines say "or enemy unit". Ok, I'm guessing its a translation fudge.
"5) Storm of Fire: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Nurgle USR or Mark of Nurgle or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, place a large blast marker on one of the models in the unit. Scatter 2D6. All models under the template suffer a S4 AP5 Ignore Cover, Pinning hit ). "

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
What? I'm reading it as You roll for the marked units, and then ALL enemy units. Such as, with the flame storm, you roll for Nurgle units on both sides, then you roll for ALL enemy units.

Where do you see that?

"Roll 1D6 for every unit not in CC which contains at least one model with the sign(?) of nurgle or demon of nurgle. If you roll a six place the 5" template on the model of the unit and scatter as normal. S4 AP5 for friend and foe, ignores cover. "

Am I missing something? I only see where it hits marked units, ie daemon units.
Edit : I see. Some of the other lines say "or enemy unit". Ok, I'm guessing its a translation fudge.
"5) Storm of Fire: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Nurgle USR or Mark of Nurgle or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, place a large blast marker on one of the models in the unit. Scatter 2D6. All models under the template suffer a S4 AP5 Ignore Cover, Pinning hit ). "

5) Storm of Fire: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Nurgle USR or Mark of Nurgle or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, place a large blast marker on one of the models in the unit. Scatter 2D6. All models under the template suffer a S4 AP5 Ignore Cover, Pinning hit ).
6) Glorious Rot: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Tzeentch or Mark of Tzeentch or enemy unit not locked in combat. On a roll of a 6, the unit suffers D6 S4 AP3 Poison (4+) hits. Vehicles are hit on Side Armor.
7) Calm Warp: Nothing happens
8) The Dark Prince Thirsts: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Khorne USR or Mark of Khorne or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, the unit suffers D6 S6 AP- Ignore Cover, Rending hits.
9) Khornes Rage: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Slaanesh USR or Mark of Slaanesh or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, center a small blast marker on a model of your choice in the unit and scatter 2D6. Models under the blast template suffer a S8 AP 3 Pinning hit.

That's why I said, it's a lot like Lord of the Storm.

Ok so reading through does the no demons and csm mixing removed? someone said something about only things with demonic instability can join other demonic instability but heralds cancel out DI for the squad does that mean i could have a herald join a csm squad?

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
What? I'm reading it as You roll for the marked units, and then ALL enemy units. Such as, with the flame storm, you roll for Nurgle units on both sides, then you roll for ALL enemy units.

Edit : I see. Some of the other lines say "or enemy unit". Ok, I'm guessing its a translation fudge.
"5) Storm of Fire: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Nurgle USR or Mark of Nurgle or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, place a large blast marker on one of the models in the unit. Scatter 2D6. All models under the template suffer a S4 AP5 Ignore Cover, Pinning hit ). "

The original translation was not done properly. I went back and translated the whole thing properly. Go re-read the rumors. There were a bunch of mistakes. It happens. The guy that did the original translation was a German living and playing in Germany and trying to rush thru it. I am a German living in the US and playing in the US.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overlord Zerrtin wrote:
Ok so reading through does the no demons and csm mixing removed? someone said something about only things with demonic instability can join other demonic instability but heralds cancel out DI for the squad does that mean i could have a herald join a csm squad?

I don't know. I just translated what the original leak posted.

All right lets play some 'settlers of catan' math.


If you have one of every god in the game, your going to be 'procing' the blasts 49.98% of the time. That's pretty darn good.
If you only need 1 unit to proc the blast on the enemy, its going to encourage you to take one unit from each choice, ie 10 plaguebearers, 1 keeper of secrets, etc...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overlord Zerrtin wrote:
Ok so reading through does the no demons and csm mixing removed? someone said something about only things with demonic instability can join other demonic instability but heralds cancel out DI for the squad does that mean i could have a herald join a csm squad?

Well, if heralds did cancel it out, then you could have a herald and a CSM lord join a squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mohoc wrote:
The original translation was not done properly. I went back and translated the whole thing properly. Go re-read the rumors. There were a bunch of mistakes. It happens. The guy that did the original translation was a German living and playing in Germany and trying to rush thru it. I am a German living in the US and playing in the US.

Thanks for taking the time to translate it.

I'm not sure you need a unit of your own to be affected to have the enemy have to test for their units.

 Eldarain wrote:
I'm not sure you need a unit of your own to be affected to have the enemy have to test for their units.

You don't based on the original leak.

f you have one of every god in the game, your going to be 'procing' the blasts 49.98% of the time. That's pretty darn good.
If you only need 1 unit to proc the blast on the enemy, its going to encourage you to take one unit from each choice, ie 10 plaguebearers, 1 keeper of secrets, etc...

I don't think you need those extra models, for it to proc though, It doesn't say you have to have models of the opposing god on the table, for the Warpstorm to proc that. The only that that seems required is the roll on the table. If you roll Flame Storm, and have no Tzeentch/Nurgle units, you would just roll for the enemy units. That's how I"m reading it at least.

 Sasori wrote:

f you have one of every god in the game, your going to be 'procing' the blasts 49.98% of the time. That's pretty darn good.
If you only need 1 unit to proc the blast on the enemy, its going to encourage you to take one unit from each choice, ie 10 plaguebearers, 1 keeper of secrets, etc...

I don't think you need those extra models, for it to proc though, It doesn't say you have to have models of the opposing god on the table, for the Warpstorm to proc that. The only that that seems required is the roll on the table. If you roll Flame Storm, and have no Tzeentch/Nurgle units, you would just roll for the enemy units. That's how I"m reading it at least.

That is how I read the German Version as well.

 Sasori wrote:
I don't think you need those extra models, for it to proc though, It doesn't say you have to have models of the opposing god on the table, for the Warpstorm to proc that. The only that that seems required is the roll on the table. If you roll Flame Storm, and have no Tzeentch/Nurgle units, you would just roll for the enemy units. That's how I"m reading it at least.

Got it. So were back to the whole (mono god > split gods)

Agreed. It will be interesting to see how players build their lists with that in mind.
Do you go with one or two gods to minimize the times you have to potentially hit your own units, but doing more damage to yourself on the times your gods come up.

Or do you try and balance your army between all four where you're more likely to be checking more often but are less likely to generate the 6s.

You could also focus on the scattering based result gods in an effort to both protect your units and maybe having them scatter on to an enemy giving you bonus damage.

I preferred building my armies mono-god because I liked the fluff, but picking units/abilities based on their power, points and usefulness. Ah well.

Depending on how big you can take your squads, it may be to your advantage to take big squads. For example, one squad of 20 daemons will be less likely to get tagged than 2 squads of 10 daemons. It pushes the hoard approach.

I'm personally curious to see if its feasable to build a chariot based army. If you put a herald on a chariot, can they join a squadren of chariots? (currently they cannot, but that might be altered)
Currently can you bring 22 chariots of slaanesh, including 4 heralds on chariots. Could this new codex make something like that actually feasable?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BryllCream wrote:
I preferred building my armies mono-god because I liked the fluff, but picking units/abilities based on their power, points and usefulness. Ah well.

I like the color of multi-god. The bright greens of nurgle. The pinks and purples of slaanesh. The bronze and red of khorne. The blue and (insert color here) of Tzeentch.

It makes for a very attractive army. I also liked using eldar aspect warriors for the same reason.

In a 2k pts game, so double FoC;

4 Heralds on Chariots, 2 units of 10 Deamon, and 6 Chariots in HS( dunno if the other Slaanesh chariots are FA slots though...)

Today you can take the slaanesh chariots in squadrens of 3.
There are versions in both heavy support and fast attack role.

9 heavy support + 9 fast attack + 4 heralds = 22 chariots as of today. That's before double force org.

Yeah thats what i though, and i still counted Heralds as one full HQ slot.

So, With double FoC, 8 Heralds on Chariots, 18 in FA and 18 in HS...,yeah i guess we are looking at a 4k pts army here...

I don't even know if someone would be crazy enough to spend so much money and time doing that.

But i think you have your answer, its fairly possible to make a full chariot army, except for 2 troops units, but hey!

But, they count 1-3 per slot NOW, but what about the new dex?, we still don't know about that, might stay as it might well change.

But if its stays like this, Then 3 Khorne Skull Canons could be fun, fire at stuffs in ruins, and then assault with Letters, without the init malus...

Well, the problem with doing it today is that as an army it kind of sucks.

I wonder if the new codex will make it competitive.

Can someone explain to me why Daemons have or need a 6+ armor save? Last I checked there aren't any weapons or characters in 40K that ignore ++ saves anymore...

Some screenshots from the new Fantasy codex posted on Warseer: http://imgur.com/a/Oulir

 labmouse42 wrote:
All right lets play some 'settlers of catan' math.

If you have one of every god in the game, your going to be 'procing' the blasts 49.98% of the time. That's pretty darn good.
If you only need 1 unit to proc the blast on the enemy, its going to encourage you to take one unit from each choice, ie 10 plaguebearers, 1 keeper of secrets, etc...

There's nothing stating that they are procced by anything. Just they happen on that dice roll.

Works like the daemon world things in That expansion book.

Gotta say as a lover of Khorne I'm extremely let down by these rumors. I now have 40 Bloodletters and a Bloodthirster to pack up and hope they'll be useful when the next codex drops. :/

Rumors from /tg/..

Great Unclean One(190 points)
ws 6 bs 3 s 6 t 7 w 6 i 4 a 5 ld 9
psyker level 1
poison (4+)
cann roll for pestilence and biomancy. may be upgraded up to psyker level 3 for 25 pts per level.
may take 50 points of lesser, mighty and exhalted gifts.


Nurgle Herald (45 pts)
ws 5 bs 5 t 5 w 2 i 4 a 3 ld 8
may take up to 30 points in gifts.
May be psyker up to level 2 for 25 points each.
May take presence of virulence: 10 points the model and its unit got poison 2+
Presence of fertility 20 points the model and its unit gain feel no pain.
Presence of affliction. 25 points. the model and his unit gains for every 6 on the enemys to hit rolls instantly attack with s4 ap - and poison 4+ (next to the normal attacks)
Can still take this throne thingie, forgot the name in english. 45 points
Gains +2 w +1 a and is bulky.

herald of slaanesh (45 pts)
ws 7 bs 6 s 4 t 3 w 2 i 7 a 4 LD 8
same psyker upgrades as nurgle aswell as gifts..
presence same costs.. here are the tiers:
presence of grace : model and unit gains move through cover
presence of agility (30pts) the model and its unit have +5 on its initiative (yes you read that right)
presence of seduction. the model and its unit may reroll to hit rolls in close combat. the user always has to accept challenges or issue them. but the user of the presence decides wich character the enemy takes for the challenge.
slanesh horse. 15
chariot 30
exhalted chariot 80

Juggernaut of Khorne: +1 t +1 w + 1 a and becomes cavalery.

Disk of Tzeentch: +1 a and jetbike

Horse of Slaanesh: +1 a and outflanking and acute senses. also becomes cavalry

Bloodcrushers (+5 pts from current cost):
WS 5 bs 5 s 5 t 4 w 3 i 4 a 4 ld 7 6+
armed with hellblades
one may become a bloodhunter for 5 points gaining 1 attack and can take up to 20 points in gifts.
may take instrument, icon and banner.

Skarbrand (225 pts)
ws 10 bs 10 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 10 a 6 ld 9 sv 3+
every unit (friend and foe) within 12" have rage and hatred (everything!)
got a s 5 ap - flamer...
his weapons:
murder : s user ap 2 lifebane
deathstrike s user ap 2 armorbane
his warlord trait is the all attacks cause isntant death.

Skulltaker (100 pts)
ws 9 bs 9 s 5 t 4 w 2 i 9 a 4 ld 8 sv3+
always has to accsept and issue challenges.
got eternal warrior and his sword is
s user ap 3 soulblaze and kills on 6's
comes with the adamant will presence.
may take a jugger for 45 points.

Karanak (120 points)
ws 7 bs 0 s 5 t 5 w 3 i 6 a 4 ld 6 sv 6+
before placing the armys on the board nominate his prey(character). as long as this model is alive karanak rerolls all to hit and to wound rolls against the prey and its unit
got the rage presence from the start.

chariot of tzeentch (100 pts)
10/10/10 all around 3 p
flamer on the inside got 3 lp otherwise same profile as the rest.
my take the blue horror upgrade 10 pts (-1 ld for every enemy within 6".
can take up to 20 pts in gifts
open topped, fast, skimmer, chariot.

Skulltaker seems surprisingly inefficient at taking skulls...

 Eldarain wrote:
Skulltaker seems surprisingly inefficient at taking skulls...

Yes cause having 6 S6 Ap3 atacks on the charge at I9 that cause ID on 6 won't be killing 80% of all HQs stupid enough to get into combat with him, all at only 100 points

Dude, the Matt Ward days are over, get over it.

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Skulltaker seems surprisingly inefficient at taking skulls...

Yes cause having 6 S6 Ap3 atacks at I9 that cause ID on 6 won't be killing 80% of all HQs stupid enough to get into combat with him

Dude, the Matt Ward days are over, get over it.

Matt Ward Days..Are you Serious?

Matt Ward never even made the original Chaos Daemons Codex! And your blaming him for it now?

Most HQ's Have 2+ saves as well.

Rumors say Jugger adds +1T for Heralds, but unit Juggers are only T4??!?! Sad day. Hopin' for a typo.

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Skulltaker seems surprisingly inefficient at taking skulls...

Yes cause having 6 S6 Ap3 atacks at I9 that cause ID on 6 won't be killing 80% of all HQs stupid enough to get into combat with him

Dude, the Matt Ward days are over, get over it.

I missed the part where he always counts as charging I guess...

I wish I played with people who take 80% of their characters/champions wearing 3+ or worse.

Moar /tg/ Rumors...



Lesser Gifts:

1. burning blood. each time you take a unsaved wound the enemy that caused the wound suffers d3 s 4 hits with ds 5. no cover saves allowed. those wounds count towards the combat result
2. cleaving strike: each hit on a 6 causes the daemon to strike with double strength (max 10)
3. corrosive breath : flame : s 5 ap 5 assault 1 armorbane
4. spellbreaker: the daemon got the rule adamantium will
5. warpbreath: 18" s 8 ap 4 assault 1 soulblaze
6. warpstalker : the daemon and his unit get +1 on reserve rolls..

you may also decide to change your roll for the
0: magical weapon. the daemon gains a aetherblade (s user ap 2, mastercrafted specialist weapon).
daemons of khorne may take a bloodaxe ( s user ap 2 instand death on 6's specialist weapon),
daemons of tzeentch a stave of change (s+2 ap 4, concussive, specialist weapon. warpcurse: a model slain by the user of this weapon explodes and hits every unit within 6" inculding the user of the stave for d6 s 5 ap - hits) ,
daemons of nurgle a mace of pestilence (s+1 ap - specialist weapon, disease: for each unsaved wound the model has to make a toughness check or suffer another wound without armor/coversaves)

daemons of slaanesh a ghostreaver sword. ( s user ap 5 rending, specialist weapon, ghostreaver: same as the nurgle one but initiative test)

Greater Gifts

1. corpulence : the daemon got +1 toughness and the special rule it will not die
2. daemonic toughness the daemon got the special rule feel no pain (4+)
3. dark blessing: the daemon may reroll failed invul saves
4 hellfiregaze : 18" s 8 ap 1 assault 1 lance
5 touch of decay the close combat attacks of the daemon got armorbane and lifebane
6 unbreakable skin, the daemon gets a 3+ armor save.

and the 0 if you decide for it:

mighty magical weapon:
you gain a mighty aetherblade (s +1 ap 2 mastercrafted, specialist weapon

daemons of khorne may take a bloodblade: (s user ap 2, specialist weapon, unwieldly, bloodthirst: the wielder gains the special rule rampage
daemons of tzeentch may take the mutating warpblade (s user ap 3, specialist weapon, warpmutation: a character slain with with weapon becomes a chaos spawn on a 2+
daemons of nurgle may take pestielnce sword (s user ap - poison 4+ instand death. specialist weapon, rustbreath: every armor pen throw of 6 is automatically a glancing hit if it wouldnt be a penetrate allready)
daemons of slaanesh may take whip of despair ( 12" s user ap - assault 2w6)

Exalted Gifts
1. blessed twice: roll twice again on this chart. reroll another 1. xou apply both results without further costs
2. riftbringer: at the end of close combat phase in wich the daemon caused at least 1 unsaved wound you roll 2w6 and add 1 for each 3 unasved wounds the daemon caused. is the sum is 9 or higher a new unit of daemons will be created like the warpstorm table result number 12
3. souleater: at the end of the close combat phase, if the daemon caused at least one unsaved wound you roll a d6. on a 2+ the daemon gains another lifepoint (and may go up to 10 lifepoints)
4. unholy rage : the daemon gains the special rules rampage and rage
5. warpflame. the first time this daemon is slain dont remove him from the game but take him from the table instead. the daemon may come back from reserve with 1 wound remaining.
6. winds of chaos : 24" s 2w6 ap 4 assault 1 3" explosiv. fluktuation : roll the strenght after caling the target, if its 11 or 12 its counting as s10 but is a 5" blast instead of 3"

and the 0 again:
the daemon may take a hellforged artifact of his choise from the armory.. note that these are uniqe and only once taken:

eternal blade: s +1 ap - specialist weapon, honorseeker: at the beginning of the assault phase in wich the wielder is bound to roll a d3. the result will be granted to the wielders WS, initiative and attacks.

grimoire of true names: you may use it at any time in your movement phase. the target hast to be within 24" and at least one model with the special rule daemon has to be within the unit.
is the unit a enemy it has -1 on reserve rolls. is the unit a friendly unit roll a d6. on a 1-2 the all models in the unit (except the user) with the special rule daemon suffer -1 on the reserve rolls. if you roll a 3+ all models with the rule daemon have +2 on their invulnerable saves until your next turn.

Why does Skarbrand as a BS of 10 and the Skulltaker a BS of 9?...

psychic powers of nurgle:
primaris - witchfire : flame s - ap 3 assault 1 poison 4+
1-2 witchfire, 12" s 1 ap 2 assault 1 5" blast 4+ poison.
3-4 blessing, the psyker gains at the beginning of each assault phase a d3. all enemys in base contact have the score reduced on their WS and initiative
5-6 nova: every enemy within 12" has to do a toughness test or suffer a wound without armor or coversaves allowed. if the unit loses a model it has to do another toughness check and so on and so on.

psychic powers of slaneesh
primaris - beam ; 24" s 6 ap - rending assault 1
1-2 malediction, a enemy within 18" has -5 initiative and can not use the special rule counter attack nor can it overwatch
3-4 24" focused witchfire. enemy has to do a leaderchip tests or takes a wound without armor or coversaves allowed. if the model dies you nominate another random model in the unit. and so on and so on....
5-6 : nova : 12" every enemy has to roll 2w6 on and take the ld of the result. for every point remaining on this roll the unit suffers a wound without armor or cover saves allowed. after that the units have to do a pinning test-

The Mask (75 pts)
ws 7 bs 6 s 4 t 3 w 2 i 7 a ld 8
may take up to hit and run. unnatural reflexes (may reroll failed invul saves)
eternal dance: at the beginning of the shooting phase you decide for wich dance she makes against a single non vehicle unit within 12"
dance of binding: the enemy has -5 WS (minimum 1) can only move d3" only d3" run and only d3" assault. also the unit can only fall back d3"
dance of death: the unit suffers as many strength 1 hits as models are in the unit. these hits have AP 2 and igore cover.
dance of dreaming: the target has -5 bs and cannot overwatch. until the next turn of the mask.

plaguebearer (9 pts)
ws 3 bs 3 s 4 t 4 w 1 i 2 a 1 ld 7
daemon of nurgle so really they are shrouded... but no fnp nor t 5

horror (9 pts)
ws 3 bs 3 s 3 t 3 w 1 i 3 a 1 ld 7
for psychic tests they add +3 to the ld

daemonettes (9 pts)
ws 5 bs 4 s 3 t 3 w 1 i 5 a 2 ld 7

kugath (260 pts)
ws 6 bs 3 s 6 t7 w 7 i 4 a 6 ld 9
still got his 4+ pieplate but its ap 3 now.
psyker level 1
and can heal 1 w per turn on a single unit of nurglings...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This place actually has a decent compilation of rules with better english:

http://fundaemons.blogspot.com/2013/02/more-rules.html

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Why does Skarbrand as a BS of 10 and the Skulltaker a BS of 9?...

On the off chance you get one of the shooting attack gifts? I agree though it makes no sense, shouldn't Khorne models always have lower than average BS, since they're so pissed off they can't aim straight, ESPECIALLY Skarbrand?

Even though those are charts, all of those options seem pretty good!

I'm selling off my daemons because they mainly gathered dust and I didn't want to paint them. I am, however, excited for this book to hopefully make Nurgle viable (at least a bit fun) as that was the Daemons army I really wanted to play, but didn't, in 5E.

Seems like it's going to be a goofy book. Looks like 6E codices will be some sort of "fluffy fun" to them. I'm okay with that.

Damn only 10 pts for Bloodletters!? They may have just gotten viable...

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Damn only 10 pts for Bloodletters!? They may have just gotten viable...

And 9 for all other basic troops

(not sure on nurglings though)

 Rakarsis wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Damn only 10 pts for Bloodletters!? They may have just gotten viable...

And 9 for all other basic troops

(not sure on nurglings though)

Damn, looks like Daemons just became a horde army

Fiends (35 pts)
ws 4 bs 0 s 4 t 4 lp 3 i 6 a 3 ld 7
models that getsin contact by one or more feinds gets -5 to their initiative
they got a 12" aura that decreases enemy psykers LD by 1

Seekers (12 pts)
ws 5 bs 4 s 3 t 3 lp 1 i 5 a 3 LD 7
outflank, acute senses

Chaos Furies
ws 3 bs 0 s 4 t 3 w 1 i 4 a 1 ld?
infantry with jumpmodule (like crisis)
Can be to khorne/nurlge/slaanesh/tzeentch

soulgrinder (135 pts)
+upgrade to god needed.
comes with close combat weapon and the harvester (2 profiles: autocannon with 3 shots or autocannon with 3 shots and skyfire)
can get the flamer (wich is now torrent) for 20
phlegm for 30 and tounge for 25 points

screamers (cost same)
are the same. though they reroll invul saves of 1 now.

flamers (cost same)
got hit hard..
the flamer is now s4 ds 4 and causes warpflame wich basically causes the enemy to force a toughness check after wounds have been caused. if he fails he suffers d3 additional wounds without armor or cover allowed. if he makes the test he gains 6+ feel no pain or if the unit already got feel no pain it becomes better by 1

Lord of Change (230)
ws 6 bs 6 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 6 a 5 ld 9 and 5+ invul (like every other daemon)
starts as psyker level 2. can get a additional level for the same price as others. can roll on tzeentch lore and divination. can take up to 50 points in gifts.

Kairos Fateweaver (33 points cheaper now)
ws 1 bs 6 s 5 t 5 w 5 i 2 a 1 ld 9 4+ invul.
can reroll a single dice per turn.
psyker level 4.
one head knows all of tzeentch +1 roll on pyromancy and prophecy
the other one knows all tzeentch and 1 roll on telepathy and biomancy you have to decide wich head is used at the start of every turn.
no longer the make a ld or dissapear after getting wounded.but no reroll bubble aswell.

Sucks that Slaneesh doesn't have a named GD still...

I'm getting super excited now!

Looks like I can plan for a true Papa Nurlge list that has some fun to it.

And dare I say, BEASTS OF NURGLE?!?!!? XD Awesome. I'll be painting pustules til the cows come home!

Do Flamers of Tzeentch still have the new template AND warpfire? Warpfire was the best thing no one ever used except me. It's GROSS.

I just keep refreshing the page hoping that new info comes out.

anyone else notice that blood crushers cost MORE lost a toughness and there 3+ armor

 ThatEdGuy wrote:
I just keep refreshing the page hoping that new info comes out.

Raziel is posting here every few minutes with more info if you want the original source (and you can post questions if you like, he responded to one of mine)... http://boards.4chan.org/tg/res/23398078#p23404849

Info is also being compiled and cleaned up at http://fundaemons.blogspot.com/2013/02/more-rules.html if you dont want to go to 4chan




flesh hounds (16 pts)
ws 5 bs 0 s 4 t 4 w 2 i 4 a 2 ld 7 sv 6+/5++
they are scouts and have the collar of khorne: +2 on deny the witch rolls.

Now, the question is, are Bloodcrushers Cav now?

Fiends looks pretty meh right now, as they rarely had problems going first with their I6, and unless that bubble penalty stacks it's largely ignorable.

TzeentchNet wrote:
Fiends looks pretty meh right now, as they rarely had problems going first with their I6, and unless that bubble penalty stacks it's largely ignorable.

Bloodcrushers seem much worse at this point, even if they gained cav, the loss of their armor save AND T is crippling.

These stats...don't make sense. I predict half or so are wrong; not saying everything is.

Daemonettes lose Rending, EVEN THOUGH Daemon of Slaanesh supposedly has Rending? Right.

I bet these aren't accurate, certain stats wrong, etc.

CleverAntics wrote:
These stats...don't make sense. I predict half or so are wrong; not saying everything is.

Daemonettes lose Rending, EVEN THOUGH Daemon of Slaanesh supposedly has Rending? Right.

I bet these aren't accurate, certain stats wrong, etc.

He corrected himself on the Daemonettes part.

 Sasori wrote:

TzeentchNet wrote:
Fiends looks pretty meh right now, as they rarely had problems going first with their I6, and unless that bubble penalty stacks it's largely ignorable.

Bloodcrushers seem much worse at this point, even if they gained cav, the loss of their armor save AND T is crippling.

Yeah, that was really disheartening to see. I love those models and wanted to have them feature prominently in my Daemon force. I hope there are some options available that make them viable.

plague drones. (42 pts)
can get the 3+ poison for 5 pts per model.
9 max.. can also get instant death attacks for 5+ per model
i would suggest get the instant death and the banner for 20 points
2+ poison for a single turn is enough against the hardest of foes with instant death in the mix.

Keeper of Secrets (170 base)
ws 9 bs 6 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 10 a 6 ld 9.
psyker level 1, prefered enemy eldar/dark eldar.
can get psyker level up to 3 for same costs as everyone else. and can take up to 50 pts in gifts.

Nurglings (15 pts)
ws 3 bs 3 s 3 t3 w 4 i3 a 4 ld 7
they are now infiltrators.

Slaneesh Chariots
Same as WD update.

Furies still look like they are garbage. So much for the rumor of a new kit with an alternate troop type option? And let me guess, they will cost almost as much as a CSM Raptor.

Only 5+ on the Lord of Change? I don't buy it. And man, I know Flamers needed a nerf, but AP4? That's a kick in the junk... Lord of Change also looks a lot better than Fateweaver at the moment, there's gotta be something else there.

I think the only thing I like out of all that is Daemonettes; they would seem to be the key choice for Troops, as they'd be rather good...and that is without putting the Slaanesh Herald in there.

Even with some stat changes, the Greater Daemons would be even easier to kill, perhaps other than the Great Unclean One. Keeper of Secrets would be incredibly easy to drop in one shooting phase.

Here's hoping for the best.

Keeper of Secrets is Initiative 1 WHAT???????

It's still I10. It was clarified later.

Yeah, figured it was a typo. Looks like Bloodcrushers are 3 wounds now...

So uhm, are Eldar with Runes of Warding going to be the new "shake hands, good game" army for Tzeentch daemons? Have to roll 3d to get the power off (on effective Ld 10), then they still get Deny the Witch. Rune Priests will also be extra annoying.

The flamer nerf is particularly galling since they appear to cost the same points. Going to be a hard sell to get people to buy the new overpriced plastic kits now, GW!

TzeentchNet wrote:


The flamer nerf is particularly galling since they appear to cost the same points. Going to be a hard sell to get people to buy the new overpriced plastic kits now, GW!

They've made more than enough sales since the update that made them insanely powerful I'm sure. Is that the most egregious example of GW cranking the power level up on a unit for sales? Especially considering how quickly they went from amazing to meh.

Some of the changes and new stuff looks great. Other stuff is just as useless as it was in 5th (or worse). And I have big warning bells going off with regard to the weak greater daemon stats. Certainly will not day 1 the new Codex or start to paint more Horrors quite yet.

TzeentchNet wrote:
Furies still look like they are garbage. So much for the rumor of a new kit with an alternate troop type option? And let me guess, they will cost almost as much as a CSM Raptor.

It looks like Furies are cheaper than any of the other daemons now. And can be upgraded to be of a particular god.