All stats and costs aside...the models look fantastic!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, why is it such a good thing to have a D66 table? Isn't that just needlessly complicated? I mean, you have to, what, memorize 30 results?

If you buy the codex you don't have to memorize anything...

I'm thinking that the Boon of Mutation or whatever spell will not be good if used on Aspiring Sorcerers with only one wound. You already perils all the time, why try to do a Str 4 hit to yourself?

Definitely interested in seeing if there is more to Tzeentch sorcerers than what's been seen in pictures.

It would *appear* as though Aspiring Sorcerers can only select from Tzeentch because it says Tzeentch psykers must take at least one power from their god's discipline. So Aspiring Sorcerers can only have one of those crappy spells?

There is more to this, I bet. If not, we will adapt by taking more Tzeentch Sorcerer HQs who can select the good Telepathy powers like Hallucination.

Wait.... So if A.Sorcerers are only ML:1, then they can't even get Wind of Chaos. Brilliant! -.-

Also, caught up on rumours.

Sadface that Dark Apostles aren't a 1-3 Elites.

Happyface that I can just convert one now for my Nurgle force and have him tag along with Typhus and chums in their Land Raider when need be.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I actually think that part makes a bit of sense. FNP has always seemed more Slaaneshi anyways. +T and Fear seems very nurgle-y. Zombies, after all.

I don't even care who gets what but I wish it were consistent. It's silly that the chief ability of a Cult unit also appears as an Icon ability of another god and the buff ability of an undivided Apostle.

The updated rumor was that the Undivided Apostle grants: Fearless and Furious Charge. The MON Apostles grants FNP. The others were not mentioned.

Well, here's hoping.

I'd not mind a portable FNP Apostle.

Also, realisation that all is not lost.

Generic Icon that gives you Fearless?

T5 and Fearless all around then!

And right after I ruined my eyesight over the German versions!

Well assuming that the Apostle can take terminator armor. Unless their cheap I wouldn't bother with that Fearless Icon. Just attach an appropriately marked character and get Fearless for free.

have we seen what else the Dark Apostale gets? Cause just 'Beseech the Dark Gods' isn't a great bonus by itself.

There's two D3 charts for Mutated beyond reason (What is this for?) and one for what I assume is possessed (Vessels of Chaos)

Any thoughts on what Mutated beyond reason is for? Chaos Spawn?

have we seen what else the Dark Apostle gets? Cause just 'Beseech the Dark Gods' isn't a great bonus by itself.

Demagogue, and bonuses for having marks.

Demagogue probably?

The infantry models look okay, though the style is pretty exaggerated to my eye, but I don't like the vehicles. Especially the flier, it looks very toylike.

Interesting. The Helbrute apparently rolls on the Crazed table only after suffering a glance/penetrate.

Khorne wins big on Mark/Icon synergy. Furious Charge, Rage, Counterattack and re-roll charge distance.

Yeah, Khorne is nasty as hell.

Would someone with a wd please be so kind and provide a better picture of the lower right part of page 23.
Alternatively a confirmation of the two wound chosen terminator rumour would be appreciated. Thanks

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Interesting. The Helbrute apparently rolls on the Crazed table only after suffering a glance/penetrate.

Khorne wins big on Mark/Icon synergy. Furious Charge, Rage, Counterattack and re-roll charge distance.

Well the needed it to balance the lack of psychic powers. Now we just need confirmation of their chain axes.

anything about the speculations for additional traitor rules or characters, i.e. Alpha Legion???

Doesn't seem like there's any new special characters. I think Alpha Legion will be just fine with this book. Especially if they roll d3 infiltrating units on the warlord traits

Yeah, all the special rules for legions bit seems like it may be out the window.

 Brometheus wrote:
Doesn't seem like there's any new special characters. I think Alpha Legion will be just fine with this book. Especially if they roll d3 infiltrating units on the warlord traits

and if they dont?? then what do they have?? i mean really?

Found these over on warseer.

orkybenji wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, why is it such a good thing to have a D66 table? Isn't that just needlessly complicated? I mean, you have to, what, memorize 30 results?

If you buy the codex you don't have to memorize anything...

Yes, because consulting the rules every time you win a challenge won't slow down the game at all.
We already have that problem with the BRB, there is no need to make it worse.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

orkybenji wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, why is it such a good thing to have a D66 table? Isn't that just needlessly complicated? I mean, you have to, what, memorize 30 results?

If you buy the codex you don't have to memorize anything...

Yes, because consulting the rules every time you win a challenge won't slow down the game at all.
We already have that problem with the BRB, there is no need to make it worse.

A problem will be having to keep a fething notepad to remember who has what rules/ abilities / psychic powers etc. I mean holy crap how many things do I have to select/ roll for to start a game?

In the rumor tracker, I marked off most of the new units that have not been seen in any of the unit lists as well as the special characters. This means ghost21 got hit hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 macas wrote:
Dont Know if these pics have be posted.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?351699-Chaos-rumours-from-Faeit-212/page58
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?351699-Chaos-rumours-from-Faeit-212/page58

There's nothing new on that link.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sunoccard wrote:
A problem will be having to keep a fething notepad to remember who has what rules/ abilities / psychic powers etc. I mean holy crap how many things do I have to select/ roll for to start a game?

Just write it on your army list next to the character/unit in question.

 pretre wrote:
This means ghost21 got hit hard.

Really. You don't say.

 Mr. Balloon Hands wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Doesn't seem like there's any new special characters. I think Alpha Legion will be just fine with this book. Especially if they roll d3 infiltrating units on the warlord traits

and if they dont?? then what do they have?? i mean really?

lol.. Not to be a martyr here, but Thousand Sons aren't exactly OMGlookhowmuchGWrepresentsus.

Adapt and overcome, my friend. We can all get through this book, I'm sure.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 pretre wrote:
This means ghost21 got hit hard.

Really. You don't say.

Shocking, right?
3T, 15F, 10 Pending.

If it's that bad, or if you think it's bad, just PM me once the codex comes out and I will help you try and make a fluffy Alpha Legion list.

lord_blackfang wrote:...
There is a Power Scourge in the melee weapon list. S8 AP2 and a special rule I don't understand. Thunderhammers are in!

Isn't the power scourge this old Chaos Dreadnought weapon?

Oh and btw, I think the Flames of Tzeentch power is actually d6+1 strength instead of a flat Strength 5 like what was posted earlier.

 Sunoccard wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

orkybenji wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ok, why is it such a good thing to have a D66 table? Isn't that just needlessly complicated? I mean, you have to, what, memorize 30 results?

If you buy the codex you don't have to memorize anything...

Yes, because consulting the rules every time you win a challenge won't slow down the game at all.
We already have that problem with the BRB, there is no need to make it worse.

A problem will be having to keep a fething notepad to remember who has what rules/ abilities / psychic powers etc. I mean holy crap how many things do I have to select/ roll for to start a game?

Yeah, that's right!
And it looks like aspiring champs (you know, squad upgrades) will have access to this as well, meaning you could have like 5+ guys running around with special rules, in additions to the spells, buffs, curses, etc.

There's a few tidbits BramGaunt missed when typing it up. Like that Slaaneshy power giving +1 Strength only for sonic attacks.

Yeah but I'm sure we will survive.

Since he took the time out to provide people with info !

Looks like the traitors trained their juggers well if they can drive them to run as fast as seekers! Bloodletters could learn a thing or two from these guys.

Did anyone tell Kelly 'ichor' means 'blood'? Blood blood? Seriously...

Why would anyone take the Mark of Nurgle on the DP, unless they intend to keep him behind cover and... shoot things with him? If it can even take a gun or a psychic shooting attack. He already has a 5++ after all... Are DP's attacks no longer AP2? If they are, why would you need Rending? It's a miniscule help against vehicles.

didn't anything on the first page about psyker levels, do we have any clue what they are going to be?

 -DE- wrote:
Looks like the traitors trained their juggers well if they can drive them to run as fast as seekers! Bloodletters could learn a thing or two from these guys.

Did anyone tell Kelly 'ichor' means 'blood'? Blood blood? Seriously...

YES! Awesome! It's "Wolf McWolf with his Wolf Claws etc." all over again!

 Brometheus wrote:

 Mr. Balloon Hands wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Doesn't seem like there's any new special characters. I think Alpha Legion will be just fine with this book. Especially if they roll d3 infiltrating units on the warlord traits

and if they dont?? then what do they have?? i mean really?

lol.. Not to be a martyr here, but Thousand Sons aren't exactly OMGlookhowmuchGWrepresentsus.

Adapt and overcome, my friend. We can all get through this book, I'm sure.

I know. I am just being a negitive Nancy today. Sooo F-ing board at work..

*still can't get over the fact that nurgle plague marines are more survivable than Nurgle Terminators*...

So, is the rumour that apostles give units they join FnP still carrying? Though with the rumoured boost apostles would give plaguemarines a 4+ FnP, meaning they're still more survivable...

*grumble grumble grumble*

though, I gotta say, those Tszentch psy-powers really make me feel like starting 1k sons... That 2d6" vehicle explodes sounds like FUN...

 Jag_Calle wrote:
*still can't get over the fact that nurgle plague marines are more survivable than Nurgle Terminators*...

So, is the rumour that apostles give units they join FnP still carrying? Though with the rumoured boost apostles would give plaguemarines a 4+ FnP, meaning they're still more survivable...

*grumble grumble grumble*

though, I gotta say, those Tszentch psy-powers really make me feel like starting 1k sons... That 2d6" vehicle explodes sounds like FUN...

We don't know what options Terminators get yet though.

I know, right?

Anyway, here's more: why does the Nurgle Icon grant Fear, but the Slaanesh one grants FnP? Yes, you can explain that by fluff, every single god could grant FnP by fluff logic, but it is jarring to have Plague Marines and Plaguebearers have FnP, while Nurgle cultists and marines don't, meanwhile Slaanesh daemons are some of the most fragile in the game, yet Slaanesh marines have FnP... that Noise Marines don't have? Unless Plagues lose FnP and gain Fear (WTF?) and Noises lose +1I and get FnP...

 aka_mythos wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:...
There is a Power Scourge in the melee weapon list. S8 AP2 and a special rule I don't understand. Thunderhammers are in!

Isn't the power scourge this old Chaos Dreadnought weapon?

That's it.


I get the reaction to all the tables on some level. On the other hand, previous editions of this game featured tables, and many games were played with much enjoyment and minimal brain hemorrages.

Edit: I'm going to guess that certain aspects of this codex -- profiles, marks, etc. -- will also carry over to the Daemons codex.

So far chaos isn't looking particularly strong.

We need to see points.
Nothing stands out as being OP though (a shame as I thought we might deserve it).

Also, not much in the way of characterful stuff. I hope we get a full page of wargear for each legion.

 -DE- wrote:
Looks like the traitors trained their juggers well if they can drive them to run as fast as seekers! Bloodletters could learn a thing or two from these guys.

Did anyone tell Kelly 'ichor' means 'blood'? Blood blood? Seriously...

Why would anyone take the Mark of Nurgle on the DP, unless they intend to keep him behind cover and... shoot things with him? If it can even take a gun or a psychic shooting attack. He already has a 5++ after all... Are DP's attacks no longer AP2? If they are, why would you need Rending? It's a miniscule help against vehicles.

Well, a Seeker of Slaanesh grants +3 to their run, outflank and no Fleet? If the Daemon Prince is any indication of Daemons getting a power boost, juggers might get calvary in the future Daemon codex.

 -DE- wrote:
Looks like the traitors trained their juggers well if they can drive them to run as fast as seekers! Bloodletters could learn a thing or two from these guys.

Did anyone tell Kelly 'ichor' means 'blood'? Blood blood? Seriously...

Why would anyone take the Mark of Nurgle on the DP, unless they intend to keep him behind cover and... shoot things with him? If it can even take a gun or a psychic shooting attack. He already has a 5++ after all... Are DP's attacks no longer AP2? If they are, why would you need Rending? It's a miniscule help against vehicles.

Rending also works on ranged weaponry

Not to mention you move from cover to cover and have a 2+ cover save instead of normal, and the psyker abilities are nice to shoot with.

 matphat wrote:
I can't express how happy I am that this line of models doesn't speak to my particular aesthetics. It means I wont be down another several hundred dollars and months of painting time.
I really do appreciate how well sculpted they are though. Top quality work. Just not my cup of tea.
Have fun with these guys!

Here now, stop that this instant. This is a thread about a GW new-release dontcha know, you're not allowed to make reasonable observations or polite refusals, it's "HURPA DURRRR DINOBUTTS" or nothing!

I'm not liking the face or toilet paper on the Apostle, but it has some potential, and I think I'll be converting up a Dark Mechanicus Magos if I decide to field a Warpsmith; I know the model is supposed to be a nod to Iron Warriors players, but it's not nearly twisted and mutated enough for my tastes.

Why is it that Chaos is starting to look like a Warmachine/Hordes army?

 lunarman wrote:
So far chaos isn't looking particularly strong.

We need to see points.
Nothing stands out as being OP though (a shame as I thought we might deserve it).

Also, not much in the way of characterful stuff. I hope we get a full page of wargear for each legion.

You can't say what is under or over powered until we ve seen points.
And as I recall we haven't.

The fact you can't field Plague Terminators with FNP is a bunch of crap.

 Jag_Calle wrote:
*still can't get over the fact that nurgle plague marines are more survivable than Nurgle Terminators*...

So, is the rumour that apostles give units they join FnP still carrying? Though with the rumoured boost apostles would give plaguemarines a 4+ FnP, meaning they're still more survivable...

Both apparently:

Dark Apostles
It's correct in how they are purchased and that they confer abilities to the unit they're in.

They universally confer fearless(because they are fearless) and furious charge. Beyond those two, the abilities that they add to the unit are not as good as the ones you have posted, and in some cases not even remotely similar.

Dark Apostles's are more along the lines of watered down cult troops, but if added to a cult unit they still "bolster" the cult units effects.

i.e. Dark Apostle in a Plague Marine unit get FnP 4+ instead of 5+, or confers a 5+ to a unit of marines or cultists.

 Amaya wrote:
The fact you can't field Plague Terminators with FNP is a bunch of crap.

It is. But we ve lived without it before this dex. So we will keep on.
Oh and btw many things suck in he 41st millennia and they are to from this dex only.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 -DE- wrote:
Looks like the traitors trained their juggers well if they can drive them to run as fast as seekers! Bloodletters could learn a thing or two from these guys.

Did anyone tell Kelly 'ichor' means 'blood'? Blood blood? Seriously...

Why would anyone take the Mark of Nurgle on the DP, unless they intend to keep him behind cover and... shoot things with him? If it can even take a gun or a psychic shooting attack. He already has a 5++ after all... Are DP's attacks no longer AP2? If they are, why would you need Rending? It's a miniscule help against vehicles.

Rending also works on ranged weaponry

Not to mention you move from cover to cover and have a 2+ cover save instead of normal, and the psyker abilities are nice to shoot with.

A DP doesn't have any ranged weapons, and he'd get a 3+ cover with Shrouded. Still, taking a combat monster and outfitting him with a single shooting power is not what I'd call the smartest use of points. Plus, you pay for Shrouded with SnP already, who'd pay points for SnP? Kind of a pointless mark if you ask me.

Not sure about mastery levels.. 1 for AC's, up to 3 for HQs

Oh joy, Lords and (I assume) Champions must *always* accept and issue challenges. That's going to end so well...

And get boons for winning them.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 -DE- wrote:
Looks like the traitors trained their juggers well if they can drive them to run as fast as seekers! Bloodletters could learn a thing or two from these guys.

Did anyone tell Kelly 'ichor' means 'blood'? Blood blood? Seriously...

YES! Awesome! It's "Wolf McWolf with his Wolf Claws etc." all over again!

Ichor ( I - chor )
1. Greek Mythology The rarefied fluid said to run in the veins of the gods.
2. Pathology A watery, acrid discharge from a wound or ulcer.

I think he was using the 2nd one there. Also I don't get where you see Ichor just meaning blood.

@carabine: Shh. You're ruining the trite internet commentary!

Ichor was the name of the blood of gods in Greek mythology. It's like saying 'gore blood'.

I like what I see. I hope the rest of the book makes it all mesh together.

How much can FNP stack? If there isn't a limit I could see GW not giving Icon of Nurgle FNP to avoid having Plague Marines /w a 3+ FNP.

I eagerly await to see if Aspiring Sorcerers are Mastery 1, which would prevent them from even casting Wind of Chaos.

 -DE- wrote:
Ichor was the name of the blood of gods in Greek mythology. It's like saying 'gore blood'.

He listed that definition. Ichor blood is commonly used as a description of the blood of the gods when referring to greek mythology. So yes it is, but it is common usage when discussing it.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I eagerly await to see if Aspiring Sorcerers are Mastery 1, which would prevent them from even casting Wind of Chaos.

Or being useful in any way other than to try and turn themselves into a demon prince, which will fail anyways because they will kill themselves with a strength 4 hit! : )

I am still excited to see what happens with the mastery level stuff. Going to pick up my WD now.

Someone earlier made a comment on how the new Chaos style is similar to Cryx.
I'm going to look at the Codex closely to see which of my Cryx collection could be used as stand-ins for the short term to see how the new deamon engines play.

I can't wait to see a Boon bomb list where it is just maxed out boon rolls to see how many DPs you can get on the field.

 pretre wrote:
I can't wait to see a Boon bomb list where it is just maxed out boon rolls to see how many DPs you can get on the field.

Challenge accepted.

 Brometheus wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I eagerly await to see if Aspiring Sorcerers are Mastery 1, which would prevent them from even casting Wind of Chaos.

Or being useful in any way other than to try and turn themselves into a demon prince, which will fail anyways because they will kill themselves with a strength 4 hit! : )

I am still excited to see what happens with the mastery level stuff. Going to pick up my WD now.

They would still be able to cast the beam, which is pretty nice, considering they can reroll the warp charge 2 one.

If you get hands on WD we need more pics pix ploxx.....
Oh and by any chance do we know when the digital WD will come out?

Actually, the WC2 thing is really nice for the table. It means you have a better chance of getting the one you want there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Re: Digital WD. Saturday, iirc, from the thing they posted on their blog

Really not liking any of these new models at all... and really not all that keen on having to add in tonnes of random rolls for effects.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

They would still be able to cast the beam, which is pretty nice, considering they can reroll the warp charge 2 one.

Bolt of Change wasn't worth it when it had 24" range and isn't any better with 18" and a new name. When I pay 250 odd points for a unit of AP3 bolters I'm not going to shoot tanks.

It isn't tons of rolls. It's just the boon table. If you don't want the other randoms, don't take the units that have been random for a while (possessed, dreads and spawn).

And the boon table is pretty nice for what it does.

 pretre wrote:
I can't wait to see a Boon bomb list where it is just maxed out boon rolls to see how many DPs you can get on the field.

Better also be prepared with spawns too then. That said I really get the feeling GW is really relying on the boons to make up for some of the squishier aspects of the army. Not that it says much but it looks better than the current codex.

How many challenges happen in a typical game, honestly?

 pretre wrote:
It isn't tons of rolls. It's just the boon table. If you don't want the other randoms, don't take the units that have been random for a while (possessed, dreads and spawn).

My army of absolute Chaos is just those and Bile's enhanced warriors.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

They would still be able to cast the beam, which is pretty nice, considering they can reroll the warp charge 2 one.

Bolt of Change wasn't worth it when it had 24" range and isn't any better with 18" and a new name. When I pay 250 odd points for a unit of AP3 bolters I'm not going to shoot tanks.

Cast the beam in a unit then, Hit four models and your still hitting four models around S4-S8 at AP1. Go for that instant death and all that.

 pretre wrote:
It isn't tons of rolls. It's just the boon table. If you don't want the other randoms, don't take the units that have been random for a while (possessed, dreads and spawn).

And the boon table is pretty nice for what it does.

Thanks for the digi WD answer, and btw totally agree on the boon table.
I find it very interesting. And one thing is for sure. We re going to have a hell of a laugh in our games from now on with the new dex.

@blackfang

For me, around 6 on average counting both sides.

Is posting very bad, grainy screenshots from the german version of the new codex against the dakka policy?

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Is no one else seriously annoyed by the prices this time? May have crossed the line for me now.

Ill agree. I like the fiends (yes, I said it) but the price is a bit of a bummer. I havent seen the US price yet, but 52 Euro will likely yield at least $55 US, so around $45 with the typical internet discount. Id like a few of them, so about $10 less would have been great. Guess maybe just 1 or 2...

 pretre wrote:
@carabine: Shh. You're ruining the trite internet commentary!

Oh sorry lemme pick it back up.

Yeah those awesome looking models look like dinobots... yeah awesome looking, money stealing dinobots...

Sorry guys just can't get with it. I like Kelly's writing and I like alot of the new models. Not a huge fan of the Dragon YET, and I see alot of conversion posibilities for the fiends. Maulers except for being finecast I had plans to dremel out the faces and replace with warped terminator heads same for oblits. Really sad to see it's not a plastic two type kit like the raptors. I like the raptors except for being too busy like the chosen.

Simply put myself along with my gaming circle agree that it's the codex that'll make or break chaos now, and we're all excited over some of the new rules.

However that said we are terribly dissapointed with GW. No plastic oblits, no new beserkers or plaguemarines, no new landraider model, no plastic power armored lord (ie: space marine captain), no plastic havocs. Rule wise, WHY IS TZEENTCH'S MARK UNCHANGED?! Lord of change, every edition the mark changes why is it still +1 Invul.

Anyways I understand that some of this may be rolling out with the 2nd wave but no way is everything that I and others were expecting here gonna roll out in another wave.

 pretre wrote:
It isn't tons of rolls. It's just the boon table. If you don't want the other randoms, don't take the units that have been random for a while (possessed, dreads and spawn).

And the boon table is pretty nice for what it does.

What about the warlord table?

 Cyrax wrote:
Is posting very bad, grainy screenshots from the german version of the new codex against the dakka policy?

I'm sure it is if writing the rules is a no-no, photographs of them must be ,

but if they were removed and the thread locked Nerd Rage would be terrible to behold

so here they stay

MoN on a swooping FMC could be nasty for those who think its a useless mark.

EDAT: Still take grounded tests of course

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
It isn't tons of rolls. It's just the boon table. If you don't want the other randoms, don't take the units that have been random for a while (possessed, dreads and spawn).

And the boon table is pretty nice for what it does.

What about the warlord table?

You mean you have to roll on a warlord table just like you've been doing all of 6th?

I want to hear the digital codex price. I m sure my hair will fall to the ground by that but I m still hoping...

 -DE- wrote:
Looks like the traitors trained their juggers well if they can drive them to run as fast as seekers! Bloodletters could learn a thing or two from these guys.

Did anyone tell Kelly 'ichor' means 'blood'? Blood blood? Seriously...

Why would anyone take the Mark of Nurgle on the DP, unless they intend to keep him behind cover and... shoot things with him? If it can even take a gun or a psychic shooting attack. He already has a 5++ after all... Are DP's attacks no longer AP2? If they are, why would you need Rending? It's a miniscule help against vehicles.

Did anyone tell you that ichor does not mean blood?

@tyr: yeah, we already covered that.

 CT GAMER wrote:
Why is it that Chaos is starting to look like a Warmachine/Hordes army?

Because GW is trying to get back all the customers its lost to PP?

Oh and do we have any idea what will be able to grab flesh metal armor?

Possessed? Obliterators? Not sure.

 kronk wrote:
Possessed? Obliterators? Not sure.

Was hoping for the Chaos lord too. Maybe I m asking too much.
Maybe warpsmith too.

 avedominusnox wrote:

Was hoping for the Chaos lord too. Maybe I m asking too much.
Maybe warpsmith too.

Chaos Lord? Perhaps as an upgrade.

This has been bothering me... maybe I'm just misremebering... or I'm delusional... but I vaguely remember seeing these Maulers some time ago... that they were alternate Obliterator bodies that were sculpted at the same time as those but GW just didn't release. They had the standard obliterator arms, but I just remember these because of how "ugh" their faces were. Its just a vague recollection of them being randomly in the background of a picture in WD and someone posted on a forum inquiring. IF I'm remembering correctly thats generally a good sign as it would reinforce the notion that these are a stop gap.

Not super stoked on the look of the new demon engine models. They are nice models but they look a bit too much like kid toys than something that i would expect from gw.

I will however likely pick up some forgeworld models, then convert until i am satisfied.

 aka_mythos wrote:
This has been bothering me... maybe I'm just misremebering... or I'm delusional... but I vaguely remember seeing these Maulers some time ago... that they were alternate Obliterator bodies that were sculpted at the same time as those but GW just didn't release. They had the standard obliterator arms, but I just remember these because of how "ugh" their faces were. Its just a vague recollection of them being randomly in the background of a picture in WD and someone posted on a forum inquiring. IF I'm remembering correctly thats generally a good sign as it would reinforce the notion that these are a stop gap.

I remember something like that. I remember seeing a thread about the new daemon prince several months, if not at least a year earlier than it was released, where a silhouette had appeared in something. There were whisperings of broken casts, and all sorts of things.

These look similar to chosen, in their style, and paint jobs. Lots of abrupt angles and weird stretched out, smooth things.

Just read siege crawler. Move as beasts +1 pen to fortifications. If defilers get beasts as their type this could explain the price hike that was rumored. Triple defiler rushes could be awesome.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Just read siege crawler. Move as beasts +1 pen to fortifications. If defilers get beasts as their type this could explain the price hike that was rumored. Triple defiler rushes could be awesome.

I can't imagine why Defilers would get anti-fortification rules when it's the other walker that has built-in melta cutters.

When I click on this thread I repeatedly get a popup login screen from Heresy-online.net asking for a authentication code. It also says "under maintenance".

Do I need to report this somewhere, and if yes, where?

Their fluff was siege engine IIRC


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 TBD wrote:
When I click on this thread I repeatedly get a popup login screen from Heresy-online.net asking for a authentication code. It also says "under maintenance".

Do I need to report this somewhere, and if yes, where?

Same here

Hmm. Too bad that everything hits walkers easilly now, would have loved to use a CC fitted dread now that they're not TOTALLY bonkers... Darnit.

Hmm...

 Red Corsair wrote:
Their fluff was siege engine IIRC


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TBD wrote:
When I click on this thread I repeatedly get a popup login screen from Heresy-online.net asking for a authentication code. It also says "under maintenance".

Do I need to report this somewhere, and if yes, where?

Same here

It's people's Heresy Online pets not working. There is a thread about it here.

Just turn off signatures in your profile for now, that fixes it.

The pop up window had to do with my signature picture. Well, not just me, but everyone who uses the daemon adoptables. Sorry. I just got rid of it.

Most of this stuff eventually grows on me/I can live with.

But the new Obliterators are just pants.

looks good when i take a break from eldar these might be my new army untill the eldar codex is out......

 Alpharius wrote:
Most of this stuff eventually grows on me/I can live with.

But the new Obliterators are just pants.

You can't live without pants though!

Related.. I like them. I've painted the metal ones. They're heavy, they have sharp bits all over them, and they sit awkwardly on their bases. From what I can tell, these have an almost identical level of detail. If not more. That's all I care about, really. I can put a mask over his face if it's so terribly ugly.

Also, for those who really, absolutely, positively cannot stomach the 'fiends; Dark Mechanicum Knights, anyone?

 Samus_aran115 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Most of this stuff eventually grows on me/I can live with.

But the new Obliterators are just pants.

You can't live without pants though!

Related.. I like them. I've painted the metal ones. They're heavy, they have sharp bits all over them, and they sit awkwardly on their bases. From what I can tell, these have an almost identical level of detail. If not more. That's all I care about, really. I can put a mask over his face if it's so terribly ugly.

You should know, you can live without pants!

And it is one of my favorite British sayings - and I can't live without it.

And, more importantly, I repeat - the new Oblits are pants!

 Samus_aran115 wrote:

You can't live without pants though!

I can. It's just that other people can't live with me living without pants.

I will be getting the codex but using none of the models to rock sme mechanicus

 Alpharius wrote:

 Samus_aran115 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Most of this stuff eventually grows on me/I can live with.

But the new Obliterators are just pants.

You can't live without pants though!

Related.. I like them. I've painted the metal ones. They're heavy, they have sharp bits all over them, and they sit awkwardly on their bases. From what I can tell, these have an almost identical level of detail. If not more. That's all I care about, really. I can put a mask over his face if it's so terribly ugly.

You should know, you can live without pants!

And it is one of my favorite British sayings - and I can't live without it.

And, more importantly, I repeat - the new Oblits are pants!

Hear hear! Pants is also a favorite British-ism of mine. And Americans who say it don't sound like donkey-caves. Unlike when Americans say "cheers, mate." Then you should be shot.

I'm seeing a lot of good things that will synergize well.

I know I'm putting Derge Casters on anything that can carry them. Finally something to help our poor damonettes in assault. I also expect to see several derge caster carrying allies for DE.

An even though my army is Emperors Children, the Nurgle power that makes all the gun get hot just makes me giggle every time I think of it.

 Alpharius wrote:
Most of this stuff eventually grows on me/I can live with.

But the new Obliterators are just pants.

Silver and I were discussing Obliterators just this morning.

We came to the conclusion that until they stop trying to make the flesh appear to be "morphing", the models for Obliterators (and to a lesser extent, the Possessed) will continue to suck.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Just read siege crawler. Move as beasts +1 pen to fortifications. If defilers get beasts as their type this could explain the price hike that was rumored. Triple defiler rushes could be awesome.

I can't imagine why Defilers would get anti-fortification rules when it's the other walker that has built-in melta cutters.

213


Because fortifications are auto hit and that means two strength 8 ap 1 armor bane attacks for free guaranteed. I will take that over +1 dmg against fortifications

Also those slanneshi powers seem to synergize well will their basic troop, as does the nurgle ones.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

*Raises Gun to temple* can some please justify this, cause I'm going to have to sell one of my kidneys.

Hang on a sec, *puts on shining white plate mail*

Firstly, it's hardback, which no magazine is (to my knowledge, anyway), secondly, it's far better bound and constructed, so it'll stand up to more wear and tear, and thirdly, unlike most magazines, it isn't predominantly advertising, I think the only thing you could really call advertising are the model pictures, but they usually only take up five or six pages anyway.

And, not that it'll make you feel any better, but, it's a new army release, that's as good an excuse for a price rise as any.

One day unfortunately, the rest of the world will have to pay Australian prices, and yea verily, we shall come to the End of Days.

What's the excuse then of making the books cost more than Fantasy books of the same hardcoverness? Are players expected to pay more for the grimdark seasoning they sprinkle onto the codex that doesn't make it onto the Fantasy army book? Granted, it's only a $4 difference (still bullgak), but there is no excuse for a $50 book for ONE. SINGLE. ARMY. There is no justification for that.

Question:
I thought it was determined that all powers had to be from one lore, yet the Demon Princes say 'at least one must be from their lores'. So, does this mean we get to get spells from multiple lores (such as Tzeentch and Pyromancy together for example) on one model? The wording has me wondering.

Then....dont......buy.....it?

The only justification would be that if the projections for sales made it so that the most amount of profit could be made at that price point.

So there are 2 versions of the rulebook? 1 Hardback and pricy, and 1 paperback and slightly less pricy?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So there are 2 versions of the rulebook? 1 Hardback and pricy, and 1 paperback and slightly less pricy?

No, I think it's 1 hardback and pricy and 1 digital and pricy.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So there are 2 versions of the rulebook? 1 Hardback and pricy, and 1 paperback and slightly less pricy?

No, I think it's 1 hardback and pricy and 1 digital and pricy.

And the digital version is on a glorified, even pricier kindle, right?

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
Question:
I thought it was determined that all powers had to be from one lore

That was never a rule.

I'm just happy to see so many folks more excited for this then just nay saying everything GW does. Say what you will about GW's prices, or "ugly models" but I think they knocked this one out of the park. FOR CHAOS!!!!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So there are 2 versions of the rulebook? 1 Hardback and pricy, and 1 paperback and slightly less pricy?

No, I think it's 1 hardback and pricy and 1 digital and pricy.

And the digital version is on a glorified, even pricier kindle, right?

I think it's around four pounds more expensive.

So the digital copy could be up to £34 pounds in the UK......

And I think $54 in the US......

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So there are 2 versions of the rulebook? 1 Hardback and pricy, and 1 paperback and slightly less pricy?

No, I think it's 1 hardback and pricy and 1 digital and pricy.

And the digital version is on a glorified, even pricier kindle, right?

No.. it's only available on a much pricier ipad.


Anyway I don't think $50 is thaaaat ridiculous for an all color hardback book. It may seem steep if you're somebody that just collects every codex, but if you play the army it'll be years until you need to buy another one so I don't think it's that bad. Consider the price of IA books.

 morgendonner wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So there are 2 versions of the rulebook? 1 Hardback and pricy, and 1 paperback and slightly less pricy?

No, I think it's 1 hardback and pricy and 1 digital and pricy.

And the digital version is on a glorified, even pricier kindle, right?

No.. it's only available on a much pricier ipad.

That's what I meant by glorified kindle

I think a lot of people just don't want to risk $50 without knowing for certain this book won't suck like the previous version.

It might actually be worth the extra £ for the digital copy... *free errata inserted...

Though, I'm having a spot of trouble seeing how they can charge so much for the book... Hardback or not, it's not THAT many more pages than the other codexes right? And if there are, what are they going to fill the extra pages with? It's not like we have 50% more units than anyone else?

//Calle

 Jag_Calle wrote:
It might actually be worth the extra £ for the digital copy... *free errata inserted...

Though, I'm having a spot of trouble seeing how they can charge so much for the book... Hardback or not, it's not THAT many more pages than the other codexes right? And if there are, what are they going to fill the extra pages with? It's not like we have 50% more units than anyone else?

//Calle

You can get the Errata for free anyway. I fail to see how its a better deal.

Sheesh, $50 codex...

at least I have $20 of credit from my last Tournament.

 morgendonner wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So there are 2 versions of the rulebook? 1 Hardback and pricy, and 1 paperback and slightly less pricy?

No, I think it's 1 hardback and pricy and 1 digital and pricy.

And the digital version is on a glorified, even pricier kindle, right?

No.. it's only available on a much pricier ipad.


Anyway I don't think $50 is thaaaat ridiculous for an all color hardback book. It may seem steep if you're somebody that just collects every codex, but if you play the army it'll be years until you need to buy another one so I don't think it's that bad. Consider the price of IA books.

An Imperial Armour book (IMPERIAL ARMOUR VOLUME ELEVEN - THE DOOM OF MYMEARA) costs 45 pounds here in the UK and is
-More than double the amount of pages and content
-A massive full coloured book
-Several army lists
-Extensive fluff and background
-An entire campaign

15 more pounds over, it makes the IA books seem reasonable.

Looks like Alpha Legion

OMG, that picture is hot!

Isn't that the army of the guy featured in last month's WD, expanded with 'new' things?

Still looks pretty damn nice tbh. Different colour schemes help the new models so much.

The more I look at the Mutilators the more I like them, and that Alpha Legion army looks bitchin'.

Shame Abaddon and Kharn don't have new sculpts though.

And I LOVE the gatling cannons on the Forgefiend. The skulls on the ends of the barrels are actually a really good implementation of Moar Skullz.

A very impressive picture, but I can't help notice how goofy and out of place that dragon looks.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Isn't that the army of the guy featured in last month's WD, expanded with 'new' things?

Still looks pretty damn nice tbh. Different colour schemes help the new models so much.

The Alpha Legion colour scheme helps to remove the horrid Power Ranger scheme that the Black Legion and Night Lord scheme that they used.

This is beautiful indeed man. Alpha legion on its glory.
I m happy cause it took time for us to see something new. The codex was 6 years old.
I m a happy man!

That Alpha Legion forgefiend looks disturbingly similar to my aunt's macaw...

Sorry but I think the dragon looks great.

 avedominusnox wrote:
This is beautiful indeed man. Alpha legion on its glory.
I m happy cause it took time for us to see something new. The codex was 6 years old.
I'm Alpharius!

Fixed that for you.

 Cyrax wrote:
Looks like Alpha Legion

A Dark Apostle of the Alpha Legion... My fluff gland is hurting. Seriously Word Bearers and Alpha Legion don't even get along. Brace yourselves for Thousand Sons Plague Marines.

Anyone alarmed about the legion upgrade kits, they are just fine cast versions of the old metal ones. What's worse is that we've had those kits since 4th. Those pads are way out of proportion, they needed a total scale up.

 Vaktathi wrote:
A very impressive picture, but I can't help notice how goofy and out of place that dragon looks.

As does the new giant "cyber kittie" imho.

Very forced. Then again chaos marines themselves seem to have gotten more "80's metal" as well.

I used to have both a huge Death Guard and Black Legion army, so I am not opposed to chaos per se, but they seem to get sillier and sillier looking...

 blood reaper wrote:
The Alpha Legion colour scheme helps to remove the horrid Power Ranger scheme that the Black Legion and Night Lord scheme that they used.

Say scheme again, melonfether, I dare you!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CT GAMER wrote:
they seem to get sillier and sillier looking...

Man, are we looking at the same thing? That picture is awesome!

 pretre wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
The Alpha Legion colour scheme helps to remove the horrid Power Ranger scheme that the Black Legion and Night Lord scheme that they used.

Say scheme again, melonfether, I dare you!

SCHEME

It's the only way to be sure

Your model doesn't look like Gak

pretre wrote:

Man, are we looking at the same thing? That picture is awesome!

Not sure, the picture I'm looking at has a beast wars transformers dragon and Cryx bonejacks in it...

 CT GAMER wrote:

pretre wrote:

Man, are we looking at the same thing? That picture is awesome!

Not sure, the picture I'm looking at has a beast wars transformers dragon and Cryx bonejacks in it...

Awww. Sumbuddy needs a hug! /hug

 pretre wrote:

 CT GAMER wrote:

pretre wrote:

Man, are we looking at the same thing? That picture is awesome!

Not sure, the picture I'm looking at has a beast wars transformers dragon and Cryx bonejacks in it...

Awww. Sumbuddy needs a hug! /hug

Nope. Just don't like the asthetic of these models in the context of a WH40K chaos army, and this being a discussion thread about said army and all.

Don't worry you can still play with your warpicons...

 CT GAMER wrote:
Nope. Just don't like the asthetic of these models in the context of a WH40K chaos army

See, now that statement I can appreciate. It makes sense to me. Much better than all that 'looks like beast wars' nonsense.

So no undivided powers?
Disappoint...
Well, at least my last 'sorcerer' was made with fluff that he is a crazed transmuter, so biomancy will work, I suppose...

Undivided powers = book powers. So you are completely on the right track.

Still, disappoint...
I am so going to miss Gift of Chaos and Wind of Chaos...

Just ally some Daemons in and you're good to go!

That could work
Hmm, anyone else hate the fiends the more you look at them?

All of the special rules to me look thick, solid, and tight. Now roll on the point costs which is the big kicker.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Hmm, anyone else hate the fiends the more you look at them?

For me it's the opposite. Looks better in every picture i see; especially the alpha legion shot. I didn't notice the extra cables on the fiends gunpods or that the neck of both fiends is actually the same... The lighter flesh colours really help

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
That could work
Hmm, anyone else hate the fiends the more you look at them?

Yeah, It doesn't fit in well. Mutation I can understand on living things, even the dreadnaught has a semi living component to corrupt. But these fiends.... It just doesn't fit in unless they were nurgle specific. Looking over all the other daemon engines, especially the assorted forgeworld stuff there is nothing remotely like these aside from the blight drone.

Curse my work internet and old-*@# version of IE!

I like them well enough. Favorite so far being the dual rotary cannon-fiend. Just not a fan of the heads.

Really, these are pretty close to what I conjure up in my head when I think "nightmarish daemon engine" A lot of the fluff, especially Gaunts Ghosts, goes on about how they are making conglomerations of man and animal, to me this is just the machine version. It plays on the psycholgical aspect, of making things that are supposed to terrify. Sure, at the scale we see them they might look rather childish. Imagine that life size though. Plenty scary enough, I think.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
The more I look at the Mutilators the more I like them, and that Alpha Legion army looks bitchin'.

Shame Abaddon and Kharn don't have new sculpts though.

And I LOVE the gatling cannons on the Forgefiend. The skulls on the ends of the barrels are actually a really good implementation of Moar Skullz.

They were sculpted by Jes Goodwin, IIRC. At least Kharne was. It's still a great model. He sculpted the originals of the "traitors of chaos" four model set also.

Well, now I'm going to have trouble selecting HQ's...

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Well, now I'm going to have trouble selecting HQ's...

I will too, here's hoping for a decent retinue to help out a little.

 Samus_aran115 wrote:
You can't live without pants though!

Can Totaly Live without Pants!

This is News & Rumors, folks. If you want to discuss man skirts, start a man skirts thread in the OT section.

On topic: No psychic defense stuff hinted at yet?

Edited by Manchu.

Well, if I'm mod editted, I'd better say something useful instead.

I like that Hellbrutes are not crazed from the start of the game now. Couldn't quite read the rules about what crazed tokens do, but it would seem you go more nuts the more damage you take.
I'd love to run a list with three heavy flamer, butcher cannon dreads, that's anti-tank firepower you can't joke about.

Anyone know the rules for Kharn?

Everything looks better as Alpha Legion!

Though I have to agree that the ridiculous sight of a Word Bearer Elite hanging out with the Galaxy's Finest makes me worry about the care taken with the background!

If you're interested in rumors on Kharn, check out Blood of Kittens. Tastytaste has been right on a few things so far that he posted months ago.

So the Sorc is Finecost? That's disappointing.

At least the Champ is plastic.

Crazed rule, this is what I see.

Crazed: Glancing and penetrating hits given the Hellbrute a crazed marker. Roll a D3 is the model has 1+ crazed markers at the start of it's movement phase.

1)Fire frenzy: Immobilised this turn. If unengaged it must fire all of its weapons twice. If possible the target must be the unit that caused the glancing or penetrating hits in the previous turn. If not, the target must be the nearest visible enemy.

2) Rising Fury: Recovers from Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned results. Has the rage special rule this turn

3) Blood Rage: Recovers from Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned results. Has the fleet and rage special rule this turn. Must run if not in maximum charge range of an enemy. If this is not possible, it may fire it's weapons.

What I don't understand is why we need markers at all. Maybe it's 2+ crazed markers.... I don't know. But surely it should just say (after the first penetrating or glancing hit). Also, you now have must less chance of doing whatever you like.
I'm hoping this is an upgrade and not a fixed rule, or it looks like my dreads are out for another edition.
Admittedly, I won't shoot my troops, but instead I might have to shoot some random tank and not the rhino I want to open up.

 Alpharius wrote:
Everything looks better as Alpha Legion!

Though I have to agree that the ridiculous sight of a Word Bearer Elite hanging out with the Galaxy's Finest makes me worry about the care taken with the background!

Wait, I don't see any Custodes anywhere. Are you sure we're watching the same images?

 Brometheus wrote:
If you're interested in rumors on Kharn, check out Blood of Kittens. Tastytaste has been right on a few things so far that he posted months ago.

His d66 table is slightly different from the wd scans though. He might have his infos from an earlier version of the rules.

Wait... there's no Bolt of Change. There's no Bolt of Change! I know there's 'Doombolt'... but the name 'Bolt of Change' isn't there. I can't recall Jervis' 3rd Ed book off the top of my head, but has their ever been a Chaos Codex that didn't have Bolt of Change?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wait... there's no Bolt of Change. There's no Bolt of Change! I know there's 'Doombolt'... but the name 'Bolt of Change' isn't there. I can't recall Jervis' 3rd Ed book off the top of my head, but has their ever been a Chaos Codex that didn't have Bolt of Change?

Sorry mate, I think Ward trademarked it in Chaos Demons.
I'm not sure if it actually works like that, but that seems to be the case.

At one point BoC used to be called Flames

 lunarman wrote:
Crazed rule, this is what I see.

Crazed: Glancing and penetrating hits given the Hellbrute a crazed marker. Roll a D3 is the model has 1+ crazed markers at the start of it's movement phase.

1)Fire frenzy: Immobilised this turn. If unengaged it must fire all of its weapons twice. If possible the target must be the unit that caused the glancing or penetrating hits in the previous turn. If not, the target must be the nearest visible enemy.

2) Rising Fury: Recovers from Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned results. Has the rage special rule this turn

3) Blood Rage: Recovers from Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned results. Has the fleet and rage special rule this turn. Must run if not in maximum charge range of an enemy. If this is not possible, it may fire it's weapons.

What I don't understand is why we need markers at all. Maybe it's 2+ crazed markers.... I don't know. But surely it should just say (after the first penetrating or glancing hit). Also, you now have must less chance of doing whatever you like.
I'm hoping this is an upgrade and not a fixed rule, or it looks like my dreads are out for another edition.
Admittedly, I won't shoot my troops, but instead I might have to shoot some random tank and not the rhino I want to open up.

No, its +1. I think they have it like that so that it only ever has to be at least glanced/penned once (as in, in the entire game) in order to go bonkers.

So, quick rundown on what I read:

-Rewards of Chaos table actually seems fun. Sure, we'll see Abaddon become a spawn every few games, but we'll also get cool unexpected abilities that change the course of games!

-Having to accept all challenges is nasty. As long as you can throw cheap sargeants at a daemon price, you can really limit his killiness!

-Tzeentch powers are quite meh. The other tables are quite nice, and Slaanesh in Particular seems brutal.

-Icons: Slaanesh stole FNP from the plagueboys! also, giving Fear, the game's most useless trait, to nurgle marines is lame.

-Marks: Khorne is both Rage AND counterattack! This rocks so hard.

-Crazed: this is actually cool now. It's caused by glancing and penetrating hits and mostly beneficial as long as there are enemies within range.

-Warlord Table: Mostly nice, though Fear and Soul Blaze are very unimpressive. And some of the traits seem VERY likely to be reapeats (Hatred, especially)

-Daemon Weapons make you fight like a spastic wimp when they rebel but you can still atack! Nice.

-Vehicle Upgrades: Dirge casters negate nearby ovewatch! This is potentuially huge, and if it is 10 points of less may be an ato-include in most fighty lists.

-Obliterators lose the plasma cannon! Now that's sad. Though getting assault Cannons is nice since they actually have those modeled! I hope there's a (small) cost reduction due to that and them having to morph new weapons each phase, and the loss of the powerfist.

-Mutilators...meh. Unless they really have a high number of attacks or access to cheap marks, plain terminators just seem better. Though of course using them for LoS with an IC is nasty.

-Daemon Princes actually become more unique with each mark of chaos! This is long overdue. Also, access to Biomancy is pure evil.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wait... there's no Bolt of Change. There's no Bolt of Change! I know there's 'Doombolt'... but the name 'Bolt of Change' isn't there. I can't recall Jervis' 3rd Ed book off the top of my head, but has their ever been a Chaos Codex that didn't have Bolt of Change?

It was originally bolt of Tzeentch in Jervis' book. 48" range, strength 9, AP 2/3 I think.. it's been a while.. lol

All in all I'd say it's been getting slowly nerfed each edition.

 Alpharius wrote:

Though I have to agree that the ridiculous sight of a Word Bearer Elite hanging out with the Galaxy's Finest makes me worry about the care taken with the background!

1. Are you quite certain that Dark Apostles are intrinsically tied to Word Bearers still?
2. Chaos Space Marines are all Word Bearers, at least a little bit. There simply would not be Chaos Space Marines at all without them.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Though I have to agree that the ridiculous sight of a Word Bearer Elite hanging out with the Galaxy's Finest makes me worry about the care taken with the background!

1. Are you quite certain that Dark Apostles are intrinsically tied to Word Bearers still?
2. Chaos Space Marines are all Word Bearers, at least a little bit. There simply would not be Chaos Space Marines at all without them.

Dark Apostles are Chaos Chaplains and the Word Bearers are the only traitor leagion that still uses them.

I think the idea can be extended though to other chapters.
It's a the counts as thing again.
My non word bearer's could have "Dark Apostles" which are simply particularly rousing and inspiring aspiring champions.

I think chaos often gives the most license for counts as. My plague marines are guys with shields and extra armour.
My noise marines are normal csm with really OTT weapons. My Rubric marines are csm on treads instead of legs. For an iron warriors army, you can have all the unit entries and not a mutation anywhere

 Plokoone wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Though I have to agree that the ridiculous sight of a Word Bearer Elite hanging out with the Galaxy's Finest makes me worry about the care taken with the background!

1. Are you quite certain that Dark Apostles are intrinsically tied to Word Bearers still?
2. Chaos Space Marines are all Word Bearers, at least a little bit. There simply would not be Chaos Space Marines at all without them.

Dark Apostles are Chaos Chaplains and the Word Bearers are the only traitor leagion that still uses them.

Is that what it says in the new codex?

Not any more. You were....uh....led to believe that by falsified Imperial records.

 Plokoone wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Though I have to agree that the ridiculous sight of a Word Bearer Elite hanging out with the Galaxy's Finest makes me worry about the care taken with the background!

1. Are you quite certain that Dark Apostles are intrinsically tied to Word Bearers still?
2. Chaos Space Marines are all Word Bearers, at least a little bit. There simply would not be Chaos Space Marines at all without them.

Dark Apostles are Chaos Chaplains and the Word Bearers are the only traitor leagion that still uses them.

Yup, was actually just re-reading the 3.5 'dex yesterday, and it's pretty black and white about it.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Plokoone wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Though I have to agree that the ridiculous sight of a Word Bearer Elite hanging out with the Galaxy's Finest makes me worry about the care taken with the background!

1. Are you quite certain that Dark Apostles are intrinsically tied to Word Bearers still?
2. Chaos Space Marines are all Word Bearers, at least a little bit. There simply would not be Chaos Space Marines at all without them.

Dark Apostles are Chaos Chaplains and the Word Bearers are the only traitor leagion that still uses them.

Is that what it says in the new codex?

I don't have the new Codex silly . This is based of every piece of Word Bearers fluff up to now. It would be really strange to change it now.

...except now all armies are getting generic to replace the old theme army lists (ex: Master of the Forge HQ, Bike capt = bike troops, jetbikes w/o necessity of saim hann, all of the crazy options IG vets and HQ got). It's a sad watering down (I loved army restrictions for minor bonuses or special options), but it's the way things have been going for a long time.

 Plokoone wrote:


I don't have the new Codex silly . This is based of every piece of Word Bearers fluff up to now. It would be really strange to change it now.

Well, this wouldn't be the first time GW ret-conned some portion of the fluff. Some people howled at the far more drastic changes the Necrons underwent in the newest codex.

-C6

SInce when has GW ever let their fluff get in the way of selling models?

do rage and counterattack work together?

Meteoric descent is s7, guessing that is the Drake's vector strike.

 JohnnoM wrote:
do rage and counterattack work together?

Because of the wording, no. However that would have been very nice, I agree!

Here's the problem I see. Tzeentch and Slaanesh Terminators are more survivable against heavy weapons than Nurgle Terminators and Plague Marines will probably be more survivable per points than Nurgle Terminators.


Unit T Armor Invul FNP S4 AP5 Kill Percentage S8 AP3 Kill Percentage S7 AP2 Kill Percentage S10 AP1 Kill Percentage
Plague Marines 5 3 - 5 7.41% 55.56% 55.56% 83.33%
Plague Marines 5 3 - 4 5.56% 41.67% 41.67% 83.33%
Nurgle Terminator 5 2 5 - 5.56% 13.89% 55.56% 55.56%
Nurgle Terminator 5 2 5 5 3.70% 9.26% 37.04% 55.56%
Slaanesh Terminator 4 2 5 5 5.56% 13.89% 37.04% 55.56%
Slaanesh Terminator 4 2 5 4 4.17% 13.89% 27.78% 55.56%
Tzeentch Terminator 4 2 4 - 8.33% 13.89% 41.67% 41.67%
Tzeentch Terminator 4 2 4 5 5.56% 13.89% 27.78% 41.67%

 Amaya wrote:
Here's the problem I see. Tzeentch and Slaanesh Terminators are more survivable against heavy weapons than Nurgle Terminators and Plague Marines will probably be more survivable per points than Nurgle Terminators.


Unit T Armor Invul FNP S4 AP5 Kill Percentage S8 AP3 Kill Percentage S7 AP2 Kill Percentage S10 AP1 Kill Percentage
Plague Marines 5 3 - 5 7.41% 55.56% 55.56% 83.33%
Plague Marines 5 3 - 4 5.56% 41.67% 41.67% 83.33%
Nurgle Terminator 5 2 5 - 5.56% 13.89% 55.56% 55.56%
Nurgle Terminator 5 2 5 5 3.70% 9.26% 37.04% 55.56%
Slaanesh Terminator 4 2 5 5 5.56% 13.89% 37.04% 55.56%
Slaanesh Terminator 4 2 5 4 4.17% 13.89% 27.78% 55.56%
Tzeentch Terminator 4 2 4 - 8.33% 13.89% 41.67% 41.67%
Tzeentch Terminator 4 2 4 5 5.56% 13.89% 27.78% 41.67%

Huh, that is odd. It does appear though that nurgle terminators do tend to fair better against S8 AP3 and S4 AP5 shooting.
Still an oddity, however.

Not really. T5 offers no benefit over T4 against s7+ attacks EXCEPT for giving you FNP against S8 and 9.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
Here's the problem I see. Tzeentch and Slaanesh Terminators are more survivable against heavy weapons than Nurgle Terminators and Plague Marines will probably be more survivable per points than Nurgle Terminators.


Unit T Armor Invul FNP S4 AP5 Kill Percentage S8 AP3 Kill Percentage S7 AP2 Kill Percentage S10 AP1 Kill Percentage
Plague Marines 5 3 - 5 7.41% 55.56% 55.56% 83.33%
Plague Marines 5 3 - 4 5.56% 41.67% 41.67% 83.33%
Nurgle Terminator 5 2 5 - 5.56% 13.89% 55.56% 55.56%
Nurgle Terminator 5 2 5 5 3.70% 9.26% 37.04% 55.56%
Slaanesh Terminator 4 2 5 5 5.56% 13.89% 37.04% 55.56%
Slaanesh Terminator 4 2 5 4 4.17% 13.89% 27.78% 55.56%
Tzeentch Terminator 4 2 4 - 8.33% 13.89% 41.67% 41.67%
Tzeentch Terminator 4 2 4 5 5.56% 13.89% 27.78% 41.67%

Huh, that is odd. It does appear though that nurgle terminators do tend to fair better against S8 AP3 and S4 AP5 shooting.
Still an oddity, however.

There's lies
There's Damn Lies
There's Statistics
And then there's Mathhammer

 Plokoone wrote:

I don't have the new Codex silly .

He knows that. You’re missing his point.

 Plokoone wrote:
This is based of every piece of Word Bearers fluff up to now. It would be really strange to change it now.

It’s not strange at all. They have a new model to sell, and want to sell it to as many players as possible. Ergo, the fluff gets changed.

The fluff only serves as a device to sell models, and thus it is not sacred. It will change on whatever whims are required to sell whatever is new. I thought that by now people would understand this?

I think anybody could take dark apostles back in 2nd ed, but my 2nd ed book is in storage. I am hoping world bearers get some kind of bonus to their dark apostles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well my dragon is almost sculpted, and the concept will work great under the new rules. With 2-4 autohits at s7 per turn they should be able to make short work of av11 side armor flyers. The scary part is coming in from reserve the threat range of vector strikes is huge.

Damn, I was hoping the codex books would not be hardback, let alone come with a $49.50 price tag. OUCH!

Has anyone seen/heard anything about the potential for a Legion Codex?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CrazyBones wrote:
Damn, I was hoping the codex books would not be hardback, let alone come with a $49.50 price tag. OUCH!

Too true, especially after I was barely able to justify 70 bucks for a new 6th edition rulebook


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is it just me, or was anyone else hoping for an upgraded bike model?
I did notice the bike upgrade kit, but thats like trying to put a new hood on a 89 buick skylark...still looks old and blocky.

There were no Dark Apostles in 2nd Ed. The fluff mentions that the Word Bearers still have Chaplains, but Dark Apostles are not mentioned at all.

 carabine wrote:


There's lies
There's Damn Lies
There's Statistics
And then there's Mathhammer

Do you have any more generic nonsense to spew?

Unless Fear somehow becomes extremely useful, Nurgle Terminators are inferior to Slaanesh Terminators barring an extreme cost differential. A 33% chance to make an FNP save makes up for the 16.7% increased chance to be wounded by S6 and lower weapons. FNP is superior to a 1 point increase in Toughness.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There were no Dark Apostles in 2nd Ed. The fluff mentions that the Word Bearers still have Chaplains, but Dark Apostles are not mentioned at all.

I think there was a unit called demagogue? Or something to lead the cultists. Anyhow not to concerned as long as world bearers get some kind of bonus. The main thing I am hoping for is multiple competitive builds rather than another codex black legiom.

 tripsix wrote:
Has anyone seen/heard anything about the potential for a Legion Codex?

There was never any truth to the rumors of a Legion codex, and the only reason people believed there would be was blind hope. The guy posting Chaos Legion rumors has 20 False rankings and counting to the Rumor Tracker. There will never, ever be a Chaos Legion codex released from GW. Accept it and work with what we have.


The rules seem more or less ok. I had a minor nerd-rage to myself over the FNP for Slaanesh and not Nurgle, but whatever. I've been wanting to expand my Death Guard to include a Fabius Bile led enhanced warrior contingent for awhile, so I'm going with that and am just going to have fun with the new rules.

What does bother me is not only do we not get new special character, we don't get a single new sculpt for our existing special characters. I was really excited for a new Kharn sculpt, and hoping for a new Bile sculpt. Considering all the new SM sculpts that are made year in, year out, anything new for special characters sculpts after 10-16 years of the same sculpts would be welcome.

Did you take into account that Nurgle Terminators also might be able to take Blight Grenades? Thus decreasing the amount of attacks they take when charged?

Additionally, while statistics are nice, it doesn't always account for actual gameplay. In my experience, Mathhammer rarely has much legitimate standing when you actually play the game.



P.S. Anyone with questions about Word Bearers/Dark Apostles needs to read the Word Bearers books by Anthony Reynolds.

 Amaya wrote:

 carabine wrote:


There's lies
There's Damn Lies
There's Statistics
And then there's Mathhammer

Do you have any more generic nonsense to spew?

Unless Fear somehow becomes extremely useful, Nurgle Terminators are inferior to Slaanesh Terminators barring an extreme cost differential. A 33% chance to make an FNP save makes up for the 16.7% increased chance to be wounded by S6 and lower weapons. FNP is superior to a 1 point increase in Toughness.

Nonsense is people trying to base value on units with abilities that are inherently random. Fact is trying to calculate percentages with this game doesn't work due to the fact that it's based on dice which are usually unbalanced and more often than not do not conform to the standard 16.7% per side. When I was in college I actually used this for a statistics class showing how the system was misrepresented.

Simple fact is resorting down to these numbers is an excess, run with what you run with and if you're that desperate to win a tourny that you're basing your army on a fraction of a %, you REALLY need a new hobby.

Personally I'm still gonna run Khorne. GorFrag is still gonna run Slaanesh and my other buddy is gonna run Nurgle cause thats what we like and FNP / +1 T ain't gonna make that kind of a difference.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wait... there's no Bolt of Change. There's no Bolt of Change! I know there's 'Doombolt'... but the name 'Bolt of Change' isn't there. I can't recall Jervis' 3rd Ed book off the top of my head, but has their ever been a Chaos Codex that didn't have Bolt of Change?

Sorry mate, I think Ward trademarked it in Chaos Demons.
I'm not sure if it actually works like that, but that seems to be the case.

Alessio did the Chaos Daemon book for 40k...

Seriously, I can't tell if people are making jokes anymore, or if they really believe ward does everything.

Ward does do everything - otherwise he wouldn’t be our Spiritual Liege. Ward is all of us, and we are all of Ward.

*makes sign of The Ward across chest*

 schadenfreude wrote:
I think there was a unit called demagogue? Or something to lead the cultists. Anyhow not to concerned as long as world bearers get some kind of bonus. The main thing I am hoping for is multiple competitive builds rather than another codex black legiom.

You’re right, there was a Demagogue unit. But he wasn’t a Marine and he certainly wasn’t related to the Word Bearers in any way. He was just a regular human.

Darth Bob wrote:Did you take into account that Nurgle Terminators also might be able to take Blight Grenades? Thus decreasing the amount of attacks they take when charged?

Additionally, while statistics are nice, it doesn't always account for actual gameplay. In my experience, Mathhammer rarely has much legitimate standing when you actually play the game.



P.S. Anyone with questions about Word Bearers/Dark Apostles needs to read the Word Bearers books by Anthony Reynolds.

The table based on percentages for each attack and ignores number of attacks, weapon skill, ballistic skill, and striking order.

carabine wrote:

 Amaya wrote:

 carabine wrote:


There's lies
There's Damn Lies
There's Statistics
And then there's Mathhammer

Do you have any more generic nonsense to spew?

Unless Fear somehow becomes extremely useful, Nurgle Terminators are inferior to Slaanesh Terminators barring an extreme cost differential. A 33% chance to make an FNP save makes up for the 16.7% increased chance to be wounded by S6 and lower weapons. FNP is superior to a 1 point increase in Toughness.

Nonsense is people trying to base value on units with abilities that are inherently random. Fact is trying to calculate percentages with this game doesn't work due to the fact that it's based on dice which are usually unbalanced and more often than not do not conform to the standard 16.7% per side. When I was in college I actually used this for a statistics class showing how the system was misrepresented.

Simple fact is resorting down to these numbers is an excess, run with what you run with and if you're that desperate to win a tourny that you're basing your army on a fraction of a %, you REALLY need a new hobby.

Personally I'm still gonna run Khorne. GorFrag is still gonna run Slaanesh and my other buddy is gonna run Nurgle cause thats what we like and FNP / +1 T ain't gonna make that kind of a difference.

Fabius Pile needs to stop leaving his Rod of Torment lying around.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ward does do everything - otherwise he wouldn’t be our Spiritual Liege. Ward is all of us, and we are all of Ward.

*makes sign of The Ward across chest*

 schadenfreude wrote:
I think there was a unit called demagogue? Or something to lead the cultists. Anyhow not to concerned as long as world bearers get some kind of bonus. The main thing I am hoping for is multiple competitive builds rather than another codex black legiom.

You’re right, there was a Demagogue unit. But he wasn’t a Marine and he certainly wasn’t related to the Word Bearers in any way. He was just a regular human.

He did make Draigo after all! Best character evar!

I need to figure out how to make his sword a giant hellblade like I have in my art... and have him lead my Chaos army (not using Draigo rules though, obviously)

Like I said, I have no problem with the changes to the unit as long as the points are representative of it. Fear is fine as long as the icon doesnt cost 50 points, same for the marks. Since we have no points yet, it is hard to be sure of anything.

 Starfarer wrote:

 tripsix wrote:
Has anyone seen/heard anything about the potential for a Legion Codex?

There was never any truth to the rumors of a Legion codex, and the only reason people believed there would be was blind hope. The guy posting Chaos Legion rumors has 20 False rankings and counting to the Rumor Tracker. There will never, ever be a Chaos Legion codex released from GW. Accept it and work with what we have.


The rules seem more or less ok. I had a minor nerd-rage to myself over the FNP for Slaanesh and not Nurgle, but whatever. I've been wanting to expand my Death Guard to include a Fabius Bile led enhanced warrior contingent for awhile, so I'm going with that and am just going to have fun with the new rules.

What does bother me is not only do we not get new special character, we don't get a single new sculpt for our existing special characters. I was really excited for a new Kharn sculpt, and hoping for a new Bile sculpt. Considering all the new SM sculpts that are made year in, year out, anything new for special characters sculpts after 10-16 years of the same sculpts would be welcome.

I was hoping for some new sculpts too, Kharne is a bit overdue, a new Abbadon would have been nice too.

I’d never looked at it before, but wow Fear really is a useless rule. Pass an Ld Test, of which most things will pass as most things are Ld7 and above, and all Marines are immune to it. Why would you pay for that rule...

Tomorrow it should be announced then released around the 6th of October if I am not mistaken. So goes the rumors at least.

Fear also protects you from fear doesn't it? If its really cheap I dont see it being a big deal.

 Leth wrote:
Fear also protects you from fear doesn't it? If its really cheap I dont see it being a big deal.

Woohoo, this crappy ability protects us from it!

 Leth wrote:
Fear also protects you from fear doesn't it? If its really cheap I dont see it being a big deal.

No it doesn't, explicitly doesn't.

I did a bit of tampering with the pictures found on the picasa page, to have a better view of some of the pages of the codex.



You gotta admit that with a nice paint scheme and surrounded with other minis, the Forgefiedn and the Dragon does'nt look that out of place and even looks kinda good.

Also saw on some of the pics that the dragon has rear legs, while short.

And one of the illustration of the book, and really, from those i saw, they are just splendid!

I'm really looking forward to color illustrations in a codex.

I like all the grayscale ones we have now... but color is just so much cooler.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:


And one of the illustration of the book, and really, from those i saw, they are just splendid!

Sonofabitch! I was trying to get away from doing more true scale! I told myself it was irrational to make an army and that the stock models weren't so bad after all. Dammit that pic is cool.

It might be cooler, but is it really worth the added cost?

 tripsix wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:

 tripsix wrote:
Has anyone seen/heard anything about the potential for a Legion Codex?

There was never any truth to the rumors of a Legion codex, and the only reason people believed there would be was blind hope. The guy posting Chaos Legion rumors has 20 False rankings and counting to the Rumor Tracker. There will never, ever be a Chaos Legion codex released from GW. Accept it and work with what we have.


The rules seem more or less ok. I had a minor nerd-rage to myself over the FNP for Slaanesh and not Nurgle, but whatever. I've been wanting to expand my Death Guard to include a Fabius Bile led enhanced warrior contingent for awhile, so I'm going with that and am just going to have fun with the new rules.

What does bother me is not only do we not get new special character, we don't get a single new sculpt for our existing special characters. I was really excited for a new Kharn sculpt, and hoping for a new Bile sculpt. Considering all the new SM sculpts that are made year in, year out, anything new for special characters sculpts after 10-16 years of the same sculpts would be welcome.

I was hoping for some new sculpts too, Kharne is a bit overdue, a new Abbadon would have been nice too.

Nothing tell or don't tell us that we won't have new sculpts for them in the Second Wave.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ward does do everything - otherwise he wouldn’t be our Spiritual Liege. Ward is all of us, and we are all of Ward.

*makes sign of The Ward across chest*

 schadenfreude wrote:
I think there was a unit called demagogue? Or something to lead the cultists. Anyhow not to concerned as long as world bearers get some kind of bonus. The main thing I am hoping for is multiple competitive builds rather than another codex black legiom.

You’re right, there was a Demagogue unit. But he wasn’t a Marine and he certainly wasn’t related to the Word Bearers in any way. He was just a regular human.

++++++++++Incoming transmission+++++++++++++++++++

The Holy Inquisition has indeed uncovered the whereabouts of the XI Legion, they are the most foul denizens of the warp, they are.......... The WARD Bearers! BEWARE!

"Libera tutemet ex infernis"

*gunshot

++++++++++End Transmission+++++++++++++++++++++++

Haha! Ward Bearers. I've not heard that one before.

SendInTheNextWave wrote:


Tomorrow it should be announced then released around the 6th of October if I am not mistaken. So goes the rumors at least.

Thanks. For some reason my post was deleted with no PM or edit... Classy.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
It might be cooler, but is it really worth the added cost?

If you take a look at the Vampire Counts book, the Empire book, etc for WHFB...you'd say yeah.

The only downside is that it's a hardback and opponents have grubby hands.

Chaos Dragon?

More like Chaos Pterodactyl!

(I'm positive someone has made this joke already, but don't really feel like looking through 48 pages...)

I don't mind the fact that Nurgle Marines get fear. It's very appropriate and fluffy, even if it might not be the most valuable ability strategically. I've never been one for min/maxing, and I personally think every unit in every Codex is useful in its own way.

Except you, Pyrovore. Feth you.

I actually am starting to like the dragon flier look i know its rumored to have only the one hades autocannon but in that picture posted further up this page anyone else see it breathing fire??

On the pictures of the two different heads in its maw you can clearly see a different weapon, so there is at least two maw weapons, and the base Hades guns embed in his claws.

Now something i've been a bit worried/curious.

On the Chaos Boon chart the Deamon Prince swap..., do you swap the Character for a Deamon prince, but with his base gears and no options?

Or can you choose your options, or do you keep the options the model had when being a mortal?...

Also i really would love to see Kharn army entry and rules...

Maybe it's just for looks, or it's attacks have "soul blaze"

Anybody know if they're coming back with legion-specific stuff?

$60 for the codex?

Oh gw....

Australians already pay $62 for the hardbacks, and yes, it is awful.

Any guesses as to whether or not chosen will be able to take combi-weapons squad wide... I'm think about doing Nurgle Chosen w/ combis as part of a Death guard force.

Also what benefit is slow and purposefull for a demon price of nurgle?

TechMarine1 wrote:
Anybody know if they're coming back with legion-specific stuff?

There is pictures of Failcost upgrades sets for specific Cults gears, but can't find it back...

In the new white dwarf the Hellkite has a flamer like weapon option also for the Maw.

and WTF GW, Feel no Pain on Slaneesh? Can you say lets change a basic rule of plague marines so people will buy noise marines... I am not happy about this...Fear is useless....not happy, not happy at all

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 tripsix wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:

 tripsix wrote:
Has anyone seen/heard anything about the potential for a Legion Codex?

There was never any truth to the rumors of a Legion codex, and the only reason people believed there would be was blind hope. The guy posting Chaos Legion rumors has 20 False rankings and counting to the Rumor Tracker. There will never, ever be a Chaos Legion codex released from GW. Accept it and work with what we have.


The rules seem more or less ok. I had a minor nerd-rage to myself over the FNP for Slaanesh and not Nurgle, but whatever. I've been wanting to expand my Death Guard to include a Fabius Bile led enhanced warrior contingent for awhile, so I'm going with that and am just going to have fun with the new rules.

What does bother me is not only do we not get new special character, we don't get a single new sculpt for our existing special characters. I was really excited for a new Kharn sculpt, and hoping for a new Bile sculpt. Considering all the new SM sculpts that are made year in, year out, anything new for special characters sculpts after 10-16 years of the same sculpts would be welcome.

I was hoping for some new sculpts too, Kharne is a bit overdue, a new Abbadon would have been nice too.

Nothing tell or don't tell us that we won't have new sculpts for them in the Second Wave.

Well the release dates on that White Dwarf page seem to span the month of October. I'm not optimistic for November releases, when there is so much rumored in the pipeline for other armies before the end of the year. I'd love it if I'm wrong and there is more stuff right around the corner though.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
It might be cooler, but is it really worth the added cost?

If you take a look at the Vampire Counts book, the Empire book, etc for WHFB...you'd say yeah.

The only downside is that it's a hardback and opponents have grubby hands.

I have looked at them. The quality is about the same as the current codex books in my possession. They are smaller than other companies books for the same price, and have little "new" material added. Aside from the army list, most of what I read was rehashes of stuff published a while back, if not copied directly. So, my take is....... No.

I will say a properly bound Hard cover book is overall better than a Soft cover book, but not to what is proposed.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
Australians already pay $62 for the hardbacks, and yes, it is awful.

Wait... that’s more than your average FFG 40K RPG source book. And those books are full-colour and in hardback. And have more pages if I’m not mistake.

What the feth???

 quickfuze wrote:
In the new white dwarf the Hellkite has a flamer like weapon option also for the Maw.

and WTF GW, Feel no Pain on Slaneesh? Can you say lets change a basic rule of plague marines so people will buy noise marines... I am not happy about this...Fear is useless....not happy, not happy at all

As a Slaanesh player, I'm a big fan of this change.

The D&D core rulebook is $65 (US) right now. Supplemental books are nearly all hardcover and under $30 (US).

WoD books are hardcover and under $30 (US). GW is overpricing their supplementary books.

 Amaya wrote:
The D&D core rulebook is $65 (US) right now. Supplemental books are nearly all hardcover and under $30 (US).

WoD books are hardcover and under $30 (US). GW is overpricing their supplementary books.

We should rage quit.

 Extreaminatus wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
In the new white dwarf the Hellkite has a flamer like weapon option also for the Maw.

and WTF GW, Feel no Pain on Slaneesh? Can you say lets change a basic rule of plague marines so people will buy noise marines... I am not happy about this...Fear is useless....not happy, not happy at all

As a Slaanesh player, I'm a big fan of this change.

amen to that. There is ample descriptions in the fluff, the most awesome thing would be a 'power from pain' thing like DE have.

all space marines should have FnP anyway...

Yeah, but the whole point is there is more reason for plague marines, ya know the ones who have limbs falling off and don't FEEL it should have feel no pain, not Slaaneshi's.

God, I just priced my 3 armies, as compared to my entire Battletech collection. Just my Dark Eldar army comes to the same cost as my Entire Battletech collection. I spend way to much on GW. Now they want more. I think it is time to go to Ebay with at least one army, maybe two.

 Byte wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
The D&D core rulebook is $65 (US) right now. Supplemental books are nearly all hardcover and under $30 (US).

WoD books are hardcover and under $30 (US). GW is overpricing their supplementary books.

We should rage quit.

Not really, I just won't be buying any extra codexs. Does feel like somebody stole my sucker though. I've been really looking forward to reading the fluff and leading through the book. Not enough for $55 dollars though. They keep telling us their in the business of selling models. The rules are there to give us a reason to buy the models, but if they over price the rules how do the expect us to be enticed to buy the models. In all honesty if I have to pay $80 for the core rules plus $50 for each codex. I think those rules should be hammered out so the faqs aren't needed. They want primium price then I expect primium service.

They keep calling this a beer and pretzels game. Maybe they need a little less beer during play testing. That maybe why some of the language is so off when we read it.

 wowsmash wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
The D&D core rulebook is $65 (US) right now. Supplemental books are nearly all hardcover and under $30 (US).

WoD books are hardcover and under $30 (US). GW is overpricing their supplementary books.

We should rage quit.

Not really, I just won't be buying any extra codexs. Does feel like somebody stole my sucker though. I've been really looking forward to reading the fluff and leading through the book. Not enough for $55 dollars though. They keep telling us their in the business of selling models. The rules are there to give us a reason to buy the models, but if they over price the rules how do the expect us to be enticed to buy the models. In all honesty if I have to pay $80 for the core rules plus $50 for each codex. I think those rules should be hammered out so the faqs aren't needed. They want primium price then I expect primium service.

They keep calling this a beer and pretzels game. Maybe they need a little less beer during play testing. That maybe why some of the language is so off when we read it.

Really don't hear "Beer and pretzels" anymore since about 4th edition. It was Checkers with terrain.

 JohnnoM wrote:
Yeah, but the whole point is there is more reason for plague marines, ya know the ones who have limbs falling off and don't FEEL it should have feel no pain, not Slaaneshi's.

Uh, is there any confirmation that Plague marines don't get fnp? I mean just because the slaanesh icon give it doesn't mean they don't have it to begin with... fnp or some equivalent feels like it would be standard.

Please don't advocate illegal activity here on Dakka. - MDS. These price hikes are getting ridiculous.. nah, they just are ridiculous.

 JohnnoM wrote:
Yeah, but the whole point is there is more reason for plague marines, ya know the ones who have limbs falling off and don't FEEL it should have feel no pain, not Slaaneshi's.

In Fulgrim one of the guys who became the 1st Noise Mariens had his face ripped off, all the way down to the bone.

The guy didn't fall to the ground screaming. No. He made a noise that was described as the noise someone makes when they feel "pleasure". The Noise Marien then told the Iron Hand who did it "Thank you", and then killed the Iron-hand well he was standing in horror at what just happened.

Slaanesh is described as the Dark Prince of Pleasure and pain. Getting FnP isn't that much of a stretch.

So long as they allow the actual Plague Marines to retain their FnP I don't really have a problem with slaanesh granting it with the icon, it does make sense for them.

Any word about possible new special characters? I'm really hoping with the focus turning to the DA that Cypher will make a re-appearance

 Byte wrote:
We should rage quit.

Notice how he didn’t suggest that? Also notice how attempting to equate “disliking a price” with “irrational outburst/rage quit” could be seen as somewhat inflammatory.

 CrashCanuck wrote:
So long as they allow the actual Plague Marines to retain their FnP I don't really have a problem with slaanesh granting it with the icon, it does make sense for them.

Any word about possible new special characters? I'm really hoping with the focus turning to the DA that Cypher will make a re-appearance

Its just another codex shift. The old dex was two lash princes, 9 obliterators, and as many plague marines as you can fill up for troops. So naturally, Lash is gone, plague marines are no longer the bees knees and Oblits are being split into two different units.

After reading through around 16 pages, I conclude that the new chaos stuff looks awesome; I'm happy for you guys, but as always, dakka can't find anything to be happy about. And they wonder why they don't let out any rumours....

 Ledabot wrote:
After reading through around 16 pages, I conclude that the new chaos stuff looks awesome; I'm happy for you guys, but as always, dakka can't find anything to be happy about. And they wonder why they don't let out any rumours....

I like to think Warseer gets the rumours, and Dakka Sorts them out.

If terminators and characters can't get a natural FNP then I hope plague marines lose it.

 Gargantuan wrote:
If terminators and characters can't get a natural FNP then I hope plague marines lose it.

And if that's the case I should hope they take a points decrease in addition.

I suspect that Plague Marines and Typhus will still have FNP.

As well as Necrosius from Siege of Vraks.

As 24+ points just for a T5. 1 wound, I3 model? Really? Really?

 Jayden63 wrote:
Its just another codex shift. The old dex was two lash princes, 9 obliterators, and as many plague marines as you can fill up for troops. So naturally, Lash is gone, plague marines are no longer the bees knees and Oblits are being split into two different units.

It’s not often we get to watch the pendulum swing in slow motion. I think the last time this happened was with the Marine Codex.

My plans for an EC army look to be coming around, except it looks like model support will consist of many, many, many conversions.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Plokoone wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Though I have to agree that the ridiculous sight of a Word Bearer Elite hanging out with the Galaxy's Finest makes me worry about the care taken with the background!

1. Are you quite certain that Dark Apostles are intrinsically tied to Word Bearers still?
2. Chaos Space Marines are all Word Bearers, at least a little bit. There simply would not be Chaos Space Marines at all without them.

Dark Apostles are Chaos Chaplains and the Word Bearers are the only traitor leagion that still uses them.

Yup, was actually just re-reading the 3.5 'dex yesterday, and it's pretty black and white about it.

I was reading a discussion about this somewhere else.

This kind of change hurts no one and benefits everyone.

Sure, the fluff might get changed a bit. Army composition wise, if someone wants to make an Alpha Legion army and put Dark Apostles in it, they now can and is purely up to them. if they want to make an Alpha Legion army without Dark Spostles in it, they still absolutely can. If you want to make a Word Bearers army with or without them, you absolutely can.

While HBMC is right in that it's all about selling the model to as many players as possible, it also creates a lot more freedom in army creation. Thinking outside of the Legions (I know it's hard, but try), it allows you to mix and match things to fit your own legion. If you want a devout renegade chapter with a lot of 'chaos chaplains' but without the daemons that are associated with Word Bearers, the choice is there.

If you're a Word Bearers player and think they should stick with Word Bearers only, then do it. But this lets other people construct their army how they want.

I doubt Plague Marines are going to lose FNP just because Slaaneshi Marines get it.

uhh, you get cultists, dark apostles, sonic blasters on the tanks, daemon allies, probably have icons that can deep strike in the daemons...

Word Bearers people should not complain! You are lucky to get anything don't jinx it!

I'm really hoping that there are legion rules as well as the special rules seen. There just needs to be 'more' to this army. So far it's looking worryingly like the last codex.

Think about the things that define other codices, skies of blood, assault marines are troops, all power weapons, 4 HQ choices, all termie armies.... We need major build altering options, and cool special rules that define your whole army, not just one or two units.

It worries me when 'Army Special Rules' has only one rule affecting the whole army and that's challenges....

 Jayden63 wrote:

 CrashCanuck wrote:
So long as they allow the actual Plague Marines to retain their FnP I don't really have a problem with slaanesh granting it with the icon, it does make sense for them.

Any word about possible new special characters? I'm really hoping with the focus turning to the DA that Cypher will make a re-appearance

Its just another codex shift. The old dex was two lash princes, 9 obliterators, and as many plague marines as you can fill up for troops. So naturally, Lash is gone, plague marines are no longer the bees knees and Oblits are being split into two different units.

It sucks for themed armies though such as my Nurgle army because now the icon grants fear which is apparently pointless in this edition and the Plague Marines are now 24 pts because they have poisoned which is useless; since when are you going to assault with plague marines in the first place? Also fnp is 5+ instead of 4+ :(

MetalOxide wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:

 CrashCanuck wrote:
So long as they allow the actual Plague Marines to retain their FnP I don't really have a problem with slaanesh granting it with the icon, it does make sense for them.

Any word about possible new special characters? I'm really hoping with the focus turning to the DA that Cypher will make a re-appearance

Its just another codex shift. The old dex was two lash princes, 9 obliterators, and as many plague marines as you can fill up for troops. So naturally, Lash is gone, plague marines are no longer the bees knees and Oblits are being split into two different units.

It sucks for themed armies though such as my Nurgle army because now the icon grants fear which is apparently pointless in this edition and the Plague Marines are now 24 pts because they have poisoned which is useless; since when are you going to assault with plague marines in the first place? Also fnp is 5+ instead of 4+ :(

Their 24 points?

Where does it say that?

Though poisoned is a nice bonus for Plague Marines.

Well it seems that Nurgle just got big kick to the balls... and feels the pain.

Still wondering if Abaddon can make chosen troops and if chosen has option to take terminator armour?

 -Loki- wrote:
This kind of change hurts no one and benefits everyone.

Sure, the fluff might get changed a bit. Army composition wise, if someone wants to make an Alpha Legion army and put Dark Apostles in it, they now can and is purely up to them. if they want to make an Alpha Legion army without Dark Spostles in it, they still absolutely can. If you want to make a Word Bearers army with or without them, you absolutely can.

While HBMC is right in that it's all about selling the model to as many players as possible, it also creates a lot more freedom in army creation. Thinking outside of the Legions (I know it's hard, but try), it allows you to mix and match things to fit your own legion. If you want a devout renegade chapter with a lot of 'chaos chaplains' but without the daemons that are associated with Word Bearers, the choice is there.

If you're a Word Bearers player and think they should stick with Word Bearers only, then do it. But this lets other people construct their army how they want.

I don't really have a problem with it. I think Dark Apostles are a cool concept and think that they'd fit with many other Legions, not just Word Bearers. I just think Word Bearers should get more of them/get better ones.

Well, as long as the fiends have decent rules, I'll make my own versions of them...
Otherwise it just won't be worth the effort
Just so people don't think I'm a WAAC player... If they had great models and bad rules I'd get them and use them,

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
Australians already pay $62 for the hardbacks, and yes, it is awful.

Wait... that’s more than your average FFG 40K RPG source book. And those books are full-colour and in hardback. And have more pages if I’m not mistake.

What the feth???

Yeah, I'm Canadian, so my prices aren't quite so high as yours, but now that codex starting to compete with, and even outprice some of my university texts, we're starting to get into the realm of ridiculous. GW pricing has always been painful, but this is just insane.

Was hoping to learn today about the raptor, warp talons and bikes points costs and rules, upgrades.
Do we have any news about that?

Amusing how the special rules rotate from codex to codex.

in 3rd ed, Khorne zerker champs had feel no pain, Plague marines did not have it all (they had true grit).
in 4th ed, plague marines got feel no pain
in 6th ed, slaanesh gets feel no pain.

at that rate the next chaos codex will give it to thousand sons (pretty sure dust has no pain receptors )