Rakear wrote: Amusing how the special rules rotate from codex to codex.
in 3rd ed, Khorne zerker champs had feel no pain, Plague marines did not have it all (they had true grit).
in 4th ed, plague marines got feel no pain
in 6th ed, slaanesh gets feel no pain.
at that rate the next chaos codex will give it to thousand sons (pretty sure dust has no pain receptors )
This! People complaining about FNP need to realize that was a 4th change. One that made PMs the only viable cult choice. Now, FNP is reduced in effectiveness and switched again to a lower T unit. But if you really want the 5+, just do counts as. PMs do need to come down in price, though, as I 3 T5 Poison isn't that great. That being said, the bar set by Grey Knights and GHs seems to indicate CSM should be much cheaper all around. Cult troops shouldn't break 20 points with all the bells and whistles. After all, a GK comes standard with a power weapon, stormbolter, and fearless with squad psyker powers to be S5, have a Force weapon, etc. Charging 20 points for a fearless MEQ with a stat bump here and a special rule there still seems overpriced. Additionally, it also seems like CSM remain sub par Grey Hunters. While not having Acute Senses doesn't really matter (but it is still a perk that should be costed appropriately) the loss of ATSKNF makes CSM markedly worse to the tune of probably 2-3 points per model. Even with re-roll LD, it still comes nowhere close to autorally and should be a 2 point break.
My concern is that if CSM has a subpar core, even with shiny new toys, it will still either 1) funnel players into limited builds (see current C:CSM) or 2) be pretty much useless (see C:Eldar).
On the upside, I hope NMs are really good as I have a nicely painted Heresy EC force that would love to see play (or at least get a good price for ). Looks like my converted PMs may have to go up for sale sooner rather than later though....
Starfarer wrote: the FNP for Slaanesh and not Nurgle, but whatever. I've been wanting to expand my Death Guard to include a Fabius Bile led enhanced warrior contingent for awhile, so I'm going with that and am just going to have fun with the new rules.
What does bother me is not only do we not get new special character, we don't get a single new sculpt for our existing special characters. I was really excited for a new Kharn sculpt, and hoping for a new Bile sculpt. Considering all the new SM sculpts that are made year in, year out, anything new for special characters sculpts after 10-16 years of the same sculpts would be welcome.
I was hoping for some new sculpts too, Kharne is a bit overdue, a new Abbadon would have been nice too.
Speculation on my part -- from now on, we're going to see the kits for the brand new units prioritized for the launch, in order to avoid Chapterhouse-type situations. Then we'll see replacement models in later waves.
If anyone can scan his WD so we can take a look...
Oh goss I hoped that they will release the digital version today but it will be tomorrow, Saturday..
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I think the biggest priority should be a reworking of the regular chaos marines. The current ones no longer fit the new aesthetic.
So true... But I'd add the Cult Marines/Iron Warriors/Night Lords to the "to do" list as well. Finecast bits taken from the old moulds? That was lazy...
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I think the biggest priority should be a reworking of the regular chaos marines. The current ones no longer fit the new aesthetic.
So true... But I'd add the Cult Marines/Iron Warriors/Night Lords to the "to do" list as well. Finecast bits taken from the old moulds? That was lazy...
To be honest i never saw the appeal in the iron Warris upgrade bits. None of it seemed especially Iron Warriors-y. it would have been better (and made them more money) if GW produced a pack of back-packs with servo arms.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I think the biggest priority should be a reworking of the regular chaos marines. The current ones no longer fit the new aesthetic.
Agree here. With all the extra detail added to the DV chosen, standard chaos marines could use some more frills!
was referring to fluffwise. Any space marine can take a huge wound and get back up, keep on going... but for the sake of GW selling many marine models they must be reduced to their present statline
As far as the look of the models, hearing Chaos players complain about how models look straight out of the box is just shameful. Chaos is MEANT TO BE CONVERTED!!! Think the fiends look a bit like dino whatevers?
This is exactly how I feel about Chaos and Orks (nids to a lesser extent)... you basically have cart blanche to do whatever you want to the model to fit whatever theme you want. I have DV and love all the models in it. Even though the hell brute looks cool all I could think about was how cool it would look with scales and if the tentacles were snakes bursting from it. I want to do another hellbrute with an eyeball in the middle where the pilot is... just really simple conversions that you can do with greenstuff and end up with a totally awesome and unique looking model.
I have heard the kit bash argument to death and the bottom line is, if we are forced to pay these idioti prices then the models SHOULD look awesome out of the box. As if I want to purchase a Necrosphinx AND a Fiend to arrive at one good looking unit
I agree with you, Red Corsair. I will send you a picture of my Necrosphinx with magnetized arms for the Necrosphinx blades or 2 Punisher Gatling Cannons if you'd like. Cheap, and my Sphinx is already painted.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sooooo, go go gadget Fiend.
Chad Warden wrote: Why would Slaanesh want "Feel no pain"?
They should have "Feel lots of pain"
Because they are desensitized to pain, and even if they did feel it they would enjoy it?
Might have something to do with the copious amounts of cocain laced with PCP that they take every 20 seconds.
Chad Warden wrote: Why would Slaanesh want "Feel no pain"?
They should have "Feel lots of pain"
Because they are desensitized to pain, and even if they did feel it they would enjoy it?
Might have something to do with the copious amounts of cocain laced with PCP that they take every 20 seconds.
That's why I say they should get a feel no pain, but if you pass it they get crazier in some way. like get an extra attack or roll on the boon table or some such...
When looking in the real magazine I like the new models much more. Quality does so much. They also have other Finecast models in there, but if Im not misstaken theyv been released already (Abaddon, Lucious etc.). The battlereport in the magazine is between Chaos and White Scars and I dont want to spoil anything but I think the quality of the battlereport is much much better than before.
Well I may not be happy with ll the models but I am getting very excited to use my Khorne Cult army. I mean I didn't paint all those red meanies for nothing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gravity wrote: When looking in the real magazine I like the new models much more. Quality does so much. They also have other Finecast models in there, but if Im not misstaken theyv been released already (Abaddon, Lucious etc.). The battlereport in the magazine is between Chaos and White Scars and I dont want to spoil anything but I think the quality of the battlereport is much much better than before.
So the new format for bat reps isn't:
TURNS 1-3:
Chaos gets first turn and moves up field capturing the relic while deep fisting the forward white scars. The white scars roll poorly for reserves and hunker down.
lol
remember when they actually did an amazing job on bat reps, it was the first thing I flipped to and then chapter approved and Index Astartes.
Nono, its much more context in it. Íts better written and with more and better pictures. I generally feel that there is much more discussion going on in the texts. also there is a aftermat section after the battrep in which they discuss thoughts about the battle.
Just realised the train station outside my GW is shut until late October so will not be down for many games so it would be pointless to buy the codex straight away. To think I was going to get the codex and no dragon as well...
Jayden63 wrote: Its just another codex shift. The old dex was two lash princes, 9 obliterators, and as many plague marines as you can fill up for troops. So naturally, Lash is gone, plague marines are no longer the bees knees and Oblits are being split into two different units.
It’s not often we get to watch the pendulum swing in slow motion. I think the last time this happened was with the Marine Codex.
One of the things that I like about Phil Kelly codexs is that overall power is increased, but its done somewhat stealthfully. There usually isn't one character (cough... cough... Mephyston/Draigo/Stormlord) or unit that is uber powered by itself, its only when stuff is spammed or certain combinations show up on the table that its true power becomes apparent.
So I expect a lot of the same here. Maybe plague marines seem like they took a hit, but maybe when combined with something else (that we don't know of yet) their true power will become apparent.
That or maybe Noise Marines will become this codexs next big thing.
Since they look like the same kit, I am wondering if they have two sets of legs, or just two sets of feet and you have to add the feet to the legs. This would allow those to build their Raptors with the clawed feet instead of the ice spikes if they so chose. It looks like the kit will come with 5 torsos, 5 legs, 10+heads, 5 sets of shoulders pads, 10+ sets of arms, 5 jump packs (with talon wings being attachments), and 10+ sets of feet. Personally, I think I want to build the raptors using the Talon heads and feet. That leaves me several pairs of lightning claws and heads to make more Slaanesh Chosen out of.
From what i understand if you put a Dark Apostle with Plague marines they shoudl get their FNP back, as well as Fear, and Poisoned CC weapons - plus whatever else the Apostle gives a unit.
i'm guessing you can also challenge with the Apostle as well - so potentially buff him up through the course of the game via the Boon table.
Praxiss wrote: From what i understand if you put a Dark Apostle with Plague marines they shoudl get their FNP back, as well as Fear, and Poisoned CC weapons - plus whatever else the Apostle gives a unit.
i'm guessing you can also challenge with the Apostle as well - so potentially buff him up through the course of the game via the Boon table.
Eep.
Wait... I must have missed something....Plague marines no longer have FNP?
Praxiss wrote: From what i understand if you put a Dark Apostle with Plague marines they shoudl get their FNP back, as well as Fear, and Poisoned CC weapons - plus whatever else the Apostle gives a unit.
i'm guessing you can also challenge with the Apostle as well - so potentially buff him up through the course of the game via the Boon table.
Eep.
Wait... I must have missed something....Plague marines no longer have FNP?
I thought it was just the termi/lord etc that didn;t get it? please don;t tell me the cult unit lost it?
This! People complaining about FNP need to realize that was a 4th change. One that made PMs the only viable cult choice. Now, FNP is reduced in effectiveness and switched again to a lower T unit. But if you really want the 5+, just do counts as. PMs do need to come down in price, though, as I 3 T5 Poison isn't that great. That being said, the bar set by Grey Knights and GHs seems to indicate CSM should be much cheaper all around. Cult troops shouldn't break 20 points with all the bells and whistles. After all, a GK comes standard with a power weapon, stormbolter, and fearless with squad psyker powers to be S5, have a Force weapon, etc. Charging 20 points for a fearless MEQ with a stat bump here and a special rule there still seems overpriced. Additionally, it also seems like CSM remain sub par Grey Hunters. While not having Acute Senses doesn't really matter (but it is still a perk that should be costed appropriately) the loss of ATSKNF makes CSM markedly worse to the tune of probably 2-3 points per model. Even with re-roll LD, it still comes nowhere close to autorally and should be a 2 point break.
I'm just going to call it and say there is no chance that the basic CSM is "better" than a grey hunter or that a cult unit is going to be "better" than a GK. GW will not let another IG incident occure (where a non-SM army becomes top dog). SM are their poster children. Period, full stop. A loyalist SM army of some kind will remain at the top. I do believe that CSM will be highly competitive, but anyone who thinks it will be on GK level of power is going to be a little dissapointed.
CrashCanuck wrote: So long as they allow the actual Plague Marines to retain their FnP I don't really have a problem with slaanesh granting it with the icon, it does make sense for them.
Any word about possible new special characters? I'm really hoping with the focus turning to the DA that Cypher will make a re-appearance
Its just another codex shift. The old dex was two lash princes, 9 obliterators, and as many plague marines as you can fill up for troops. So naturally, Lash is gone, plague marines are no longer the bees knees and Oblits are being split into two different units.
It sucks for themed armies though such as my Nurgle army because now the icon grants fear which is apparently pointless in this edition and the Plague Marines are now 24 pts because they have poisoned which is useless; since when are you going to assault with plague marines in the first place? Also fnp is 5+ instead of 4+ :(
FNP is way better now. Sure its 5+ but nothing negates it at toughness 5. It makes units way more survivable overall. The point extra for gaining poisoned is not bad either, and fits the fluff as well.
Plus, for those despairing....
Epidemius.
Just saying. Epidemius will gift you chums with a 3+ FNP and that in itself is somewhat silly.
Dark Apostle in Terminator Unit with Typhus? With 3+ FNP due to Epidemius' magic number?
This! People complaining about FNP need to realize that was a 4th change. One that made PMs the only viable cult choice. Now, FNP is reduced in effectiveness and switched again to a lower T unit. But if you really want the 5+, just do counts as. PMs do need to come down in price, though, as I 3 T5 Poison isn't that great. That being said, the bar set by Grey Knights and GHs seems to indicate CSM should be much cheaper all around. Cult troops shouldn't break 20 points with all the bells and whistles. After all, a GK comes standard with a power weapon, stormbolter, and fearless with squad psyker powers to be S5, have a Force weapon, etc. Charging 20 points for a fearless MEQ with a stat bump here and a special rule there still seems overpriced. Additionally, it also seems like CSM remain sub par Grey Hunters. While not having Acute Senses doesn't really matter (but it is still a perk that should be costed appropriately) the loss of ATSKNF makes CSM markedly worse to the tune of probably 2-3 points per model. Even with re-roll LD, it still comes nowhere close to autorally and should be a 2 point break.
I'm just going to call it and say there is no chance that the basic CSM is "better" than a grey hunter or that a cult unit is going to be "better" than a GK. GW will not let another IG incident occure (where a non-SM army becomes top dog). SM are their poster children. Period, full stop. A loyalist SM army of some kind will remain at the top. I do believe that CSM will be highly competitive, but anyone who thinks it will be on GK level of power is going to be a little dissapointed.
Jag_Calle wrote: Haven't seen a rumour if whether the apostle is like the BA priests, ie 1-3 for an elite slot, 1 per HQ slot, or like haemonculi, 1-3 per HQ slot...
God I hope it's 1-3... And NOT 1/HQ slot... Else, I'll need two FOCs just to run my 4x7 plaguemarine squads with FnP, as is proper..
He will either be like a chaplain or a BA priest, I'm guessing.
Praxiss wrote: From what i understand if you put a Dark Apostle with Plague marines they shoudl get their FNP back, as well as Fear, and Poisoned CC weapons - plus whatever else the Apostle gives a unit.
i'm guessing you can also challenge with the Apostle as well - so potentially buff him up through the course of the game via the Boon table.
Eep.
Wait... I must have missed something....Plague marines no longer have FNP?
I thought it was just the termi/lord etc that didn;t get it? please don;t tell me the cult unit lost it?
i might be mis-reading or jumping to conclusions. From what i have seen, FNP has jumped to the Icon of Excess/mark of Slaanesh.
Not seen any stats about the actuall cult unit themselves so i suppose they may still have it.
CrashCanuck wrote: So long as they allow the actual Plague Marines to retain their FnP I don't really have a problem with slaanesh granting it with the icon, it does make sense for them.
Any word about possible new special characters? I'm really hoping with the focus turning to the DA that Cypher will make a re-appearance
Its just another codex shift. The old dex was two lash princes, 9 obliterators, and as many plague marines as you can fill up for troops. So naturally, Lash is gone, plague marines are no longer the bees knees and Oblits are being split into two different units.
It sucks for themed armies though such as my Nurgle army because now the icon grants fear which is apparently pointless in this edition and the Plague Marines are now 24 pts because they have poisoned which is useless; since when are you going to assault with plague marines in the first place? Also fnp is 5+ instead of 4+ :(
FNP is way better now. Sure its 5+ but nothing negates it at toughness 5. It makes units way more survivable overall. The point extra for gaining poisoned is not bad either, and fits the fluff as well.
Plus, for those despairing....
Epidemius.
Just saying. Epidemius will gift you chums with a 3+ FNP and that in itself is somewhat silly.
Dark Apostle in Terminator Unit with Typhus? With 3+ FNP due to Epidemius' magic number?
Oh my indeed.
Epi only improves existing FNP. He does not give it. In addition, his poison buff only works on Plague Swords.
Jag_Calle wrote: Haven't seen a rumour if whether the apostle is like the BA priests, ie 1-3 for an elite slot, 1 per HQ slot, or like haemonculi, 1-3 per HQ slot...
God I hope it's 1-3... And NOT 1/HQ slot... Else, I'll need two FOCs just to run my 4x7 plaguemarine squads with FnP, as is proper..
He will either be like a chaplain or a BA priest, I'm guessing.
Yeah... That's 2 of the three ways I mentioned...
Epi will make things right if we can take multiple apostles... As the apostles give FnP, which he improves... Here's hoping plaguemarines get plagueswords, so the poisoned CC, is improved aswell...
So far we don't know that plague Marines lost their FNP. There are still plenty of gaps to be filled. They could just have it naturally instead of though icons and marks. Or have it when led by a Nurgle Dark Apostle.
Other stuff that is really eating at me with curiosity:
-Chosen. What do they get now?
-Possessed. Did underdog of the last codex bounce back at last?
-And pretty much all special characters, most notably Lucius (so much potential now with challenges in the game!) and Kharn.
This! People complaining about FNP need to realize that was a 4th change. One that made PMs the only viable cult choice. Now, FNP is reduced in effectiveness and switched again to a lower T unit. But if you really want the 5+, just do counts as. PMs do need to come down in price, though, as I 3 T5 Poison isn't that great. That being said, the bar set by Grey Knights and GHs seems to indicate CSM should be much cheaper all around. Cult troops shouldn't break 20 points with all the bells and whistles. After all, a GK comes standard with a power weapon, stormbolter, and fearless with squad psyker powers to be S5, have a Force weapon, etc. Charging 20 points for a fearless MEQ with a stat bump here and a special rule there still seems overpriced. Additionally, it also seems like CSM remain sub par Grey Hunters. While not having Acute Senses doesn't really matter (but it is still a perk that should be costed appropriately) the loss of ATSKNF makes CSM markedly worse to the tune of probably 2-3 points per model. Even with re-roll LD, it still comes nowhere close to autorally and should be a 2 point break.
I'm just going to call it and say there is no chance that the basic CSM is "better" than a grey hunter or that a cult unit is going to be "better" than a GK. GW will not let another IG incident occure (where a non-SM army becomes top dog). SM are their poster children. Period, full stop. A loyalist SM army of some kind will remain at the top. I do believe that CSM will be highly competitive, but anyone who thinks it will be on GK level of power is going to be a little dissapointed.
I think necrons would like a word with ya
As would Eldar, the current CSM Codex when it was young, and Orks.
-Possessed. Did underdog of the last codex bounce back at last?
The Vessels of Chaos table looks like it might be what Possessed roll on. If that's the case, it's a good sign as all results promote direct close combat results, unlike the current table.
CrashCanuck wrote: So long as they allow the actual Plague Marines to retain their FnP I don't really have a problem with slaanesh granting it with the icon, it does make sense for them.
Any word about possible new special characters? I'm really hoping with the focus turning to the DA that Cypher will make a re-appearance
Its just another codex shift. The old dex was two lash princes, 9 obliterators, and as many plague marines as you can fill up for troops. So naturally, Lash is gone, plague marines are no longer the bees knees and Oblits are being split into two different units.
It sucks for themed armies though such as my Nurgle army because now the icon grants fear which is apparently pointless in this edition and the Plague Marines are now 24 pts because they have poisoned which is useless; since when are you going to assault with plague marines in the first place? Also fnp is 5+ instead of 4+ :(
FNP is way better now. Sure its 5+ but nothing negates it at toughness 5. It makes units way more survivable overall. The point extra for gaining poisoned is not bad either, and fits the fluff as well.
Plus, for those despairing....
Epidemius.
Just saying. Epidemius will gift you chums with a 3+ FNP and that in itself is somewhat silly.
Dark Apostle in Terminator Unit with Typhus? With 3+ FNP due to Epidemius' magic number?
Oh my indeed.
Epi only improves existing FNP. He does not give it. In addition, his poison buff only works on Plague Swords.
Aaaaaand if the Dark Apostle is giving the Terminators FNP.....then I guess he improves that too, yes?
And the magic number of 20 turns anything with bolter fire into a monster. Armour ignoring indeed.
I'm glad that noise marines are going upgrade kit. Want to see the loadout though. The hybrid plastic/metal kit was dissapointing (8 marines, 2 blasters, 1 siren, 1 blastmaster and power sword with some extra heads) were kind of lame. The metal upgrade kit was the only feasible way of getting more weapons.
FNP is way better now. Sure its 5+ but nothing negates it at toughness 5. It makes units way more survivable overall. The point extra for gaining poisoned is not bad either, and fits the fluff as well.
Plus, for those despairing....
Epidemius.
Just saying. Epidemius will gift you chums with a 3+ FNP and that in itself is somewhat silly.
Dark Apostle in Terminator Unit with Typhus? With 3+ FNP due to Epidemius' magic number?
Oh my indeed.
If I were a tournament player I would probably take Epidemus as an ally. It's a bit overpowered for the friendly games I usually play with friends. I'd no doubt take him in Apocalypse games just to watch the craziness.
A terminators Dark Apostle would be a good way to get FNP Terminators though. I will probably go that route when I field terminators.
-Possessed. Did underdog of the last codex bounce back at last?
The Vessels of Chaos table looks like it might be what Possessed roll on. If that's the case, it's a good sign as all results promote direct close combat results, unlike the current table.
Someone else speculated they may get the 2+ fleshmetal armor. If they have the Daemon special rule giving them Mark of Tzeentch would be nasty.
This! People complaining about FNP need to realize that was a 4th change. One that made PMs the only viable cult choice. Now, FNP is reduced in effectiveness and switched again to a lower T unit. But if you really want the 5+, just do counts as. PMs do need to come down in price, though, as I 3 T5 Poison isn't that great. That being said, the bar set by Grey Knights and GHs seems to indicate CSM should be much cheaper all around. Cult troops shouldn't break 20 points with all the bells and whistles. After all, a GK comes standard with a power weapon, stormbolter, and fearless with squad psyker powers to be S5, have a Force weapon, etc. Charging 20 points for a fearless MEQ with a stat bump here and a special rule there still seems overpriced. Additionally, it also seems like CSM remain sub par Grey Hunters. While not having Acute Senses doesn't really matter (but it is still a perk that should be costed appropriately) the loss of ATSKNF makes CSM markedly worse to the tune of probably 2-3 points per model. Even with re-roll LD, it still comes nowhere close to autorally and should be a 2 point break.
I'm just going to call it and say there is no chance that the basic CSM is "better" than a grey hunter or that a cult unit is going to be "better" than a GK. GW will not let another IG incident occure (where a non-SM army becomes top dog). SM are their poster children. Period, full stop. A loyalist SM army of some kind will remain at the top. I do believe that CSM will be highly competitive, but anyone who thinks it will be on GK level of power is going to be a little dissapointed.
I think necrons would like a word with ya
IG are still way above vanilla marines and the different flavours, in large part because they actually have flyers already (with 3 twin-linked lascannons and AV 12 no less) and anti-flyer weapons. Marines never really were top dogs, only the space wolves were a real challenge, and as long as you have a good bit of melta and plasma draigowing was never hard to beat.
They're suppose to have "veterans of the long war" giving them hatred (space marines)... But other units are rumored to have it to.
So 9 points over a baseline marine for Hatred and better gear options? Sounds a bit bare. I'd expect one more rule or unit trait for the concept to make sense.
Rivet wrote: Lucius and Kharne are gone also, likely for the same reason.
I was hopeful at first, and then it was confirmed that they will not be getting new sculpts.
Shame...
It's unlikely that they get a new sculpt now. They might get an update later though, as they try to release all new units first.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sephyr wrote: So 9 points over a baseline marine for Hatred and better gear options? Sounds a bit bare. I'd expect one more rule or unit trait for the concept to make sense.
There were at least two more lines in the rules section that were hard to read (or even unreadable) iirc.
Rivet wrote: Lucius and Kharne are gone also, likely for the same reason.
I was hopeful at first, and then it was confirmed that they will not be getting new sculpts.
Shame...
It's unlikely that they get a new sculpt now. They might get an update later though, as they try to release all new units first.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sephyr wrote: So 9 points over a baseline marine for Hatred and better gear options? Sounds a bit bare. I'd expect one more rule or unit trait for the concept to make sense.
There were at least two more lines in the rules section that were hard to read (or even unreadable) iirc.
+1 leadership as well.
So HQ choices and Chosen will most likely have that ability.
Am I the only one who thinks Demonic Engine sounds like a fun rule? I mean, I hate random rolling except for those armies that it makes sense for (chaos, orks, skaven) but this seems like a good one. Its an upgrade that has a downside that has an upside. It eats your friggin' guys and heals itself! Now that's fun! I dunno about anything else, that particular rule just caught my eye. Its usefullness now comes down to its cost. Too much and you'll never take it, too cheap and its overpowered even with the downside. If its in that sweetspot, I think I'd take it for its flavorfulness, much like I would take a Commisar for IG because "Summary Execution" is a flavorful and fun rule.
Nagashek wrote: Am I the only one who thinks Demonic Engine sounds like a fun rule?
I love it.
If you deploy embarked in such a vehicle at the start of a game or come in from reserves embarked, do you still make the roll? Or is it only if you hop in during the course of the game (after initial deployment).
I'm so excited to finally see all this in person! An Iron Painter event is going on this weekend as well. It's going to be a good time. Gunna preorder a codex and heldrake right off the bat and try to paint as many Chaos Marines as I can!
What's really more interesting to think about is... what could be released on the 20th of October? Let's look at what we know...
1. All the new kits except for the Helbrute and Cultists are being released on the 6th.
2. The new Battleforce has Bikes, Possessed, Marines, and a Rhino
3. Noise Marines, Thousand Sons, and most named HQ's are getting finecast resculpts and Raptors are getting a plastic kit.
What's that leave? In all of the Chaos Marine range, that leaves only a handful of things, really...
Helbrute, Cultists, Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, and Terminators, along with nearly ALL of the current vehicles.
If they released those two new kits, replaced Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines, and Terminators, and gave the vehicles a new sprue upgrade kit, that'd make a pretty solid 2nd wave, don't you think?
drbored wrote: I'm so excited to finally see all this in person! An Iron Painter event is going on this weekend as well. It's going to be a good time. Gunna preorder a codex and heldrake right off the bat and try to paint as many Chaos Marines as I can!
What's really more interesting to think about is... what could be released on the 20th of October? Let's look at what we know...
1. All the new kits except for the Helbrute and Cultists are being released on the 6th.
2. The new Battleforce has Bikes, Possessed, Marines, and a Rhino
3. Noise Marines, Thousand Sons, and most named HQ's are getting finecast resculpts and Raptors are getting a plastic kit.
What's that leave? In all of the Chaos Marine range, that leaves only a handful of things, really...
Helbrute, Cultists, Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, and Terminators, along with nearly ALL of the current vehicles.
If they released those two new kits, replaced Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines, and Terminators, and gave the vehicles a new sprue upgrade kit, that'd make a pretty solid 2nd wave, don't you think?
I hope for the zerkers but don't think that plague marines will get a new sculpt as they are fine cast already.
Wait for hell brute, cultists and maybe chosen. I don't believe vehicles will get an upgrade.
drbored wrote: I'm so excited to finally see all this in person! An Iron Painter event is going on this weekend as well. It's going to be a good time. Gunna preorder a codex and heldrake right off the bat and try to paint as many Chaos Marines as I can!
What's really more interesting to think about is... what could be released on the 20th of October? Let's look at what we know...
1. All the new kits except for the Helbrute and Cultists are being released on the 6th.
2. The new Battleforce has Bikes, Possessed, Marines, and a Rhino
3. Noise Marines, Thousand Sons, and most named HQ's are getting finecast resculpts and Raptors are getting a plastic kit.
What's that leave? In all of the Chaos Marine range, that leaves only a handful of things, really...
Helbrute, Cultists, Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, and Terminators, along with nearly ALL of the current vehicles.
If they released those two new kits, replaced Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines, and Terminators, and gave the vehicles a new sprue upgrade kit, that'd make a pretty solid 2nd wave, don't you think?
I hope for the zerkers but don't think that plague marines will get a new sculpt as they are fine cast already.
Wait for hell brute, cultists and maybe chosen. I don't believe vehicles will get an upgrade.
The Hive Tyrant got a finecast kit and then was replaced shortly after. Plague Marines desperately NEED the update.. They're a full head shorter than normal marines! I'll be crossing my fingers.. I'm sure we'll hear about it in a few weeks..
Anyway I don't think $50 is thaaaat ridiculous for an all color hardback book.
For the amount of pages, $50 is stupid ridiculous. Most RPG books are full color and twice the size for usually $15 less.
Honestly I think what prompted GWs change was FFG's 40kRPG books so outshining GW's books. A comparable book in size from FFG is $40. GW stopped selling the RPG itself because a $50 core rulebook doesn't justify the investment and they were "losing money". If they needed a margin of 25% ($75 for 6th ed and $60 for DH presently ) greater than FFG to justify the investment charging $50 for what FFG charges $40 is consistent. That margin is no doubt relative to their above cost markup of miniatures so if you want rules and not just random minis you have to accept that relationshipi.
I agree. They are beautiful indeed. If you can grab a unit of them there is not need to wait a new sculpt.
Btw the metal plague marines that is now fine cast are not that bad.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I think the biggest priority should be a reworking of the regular chaos marines. The current ones no longer fit the new aesthetic.
110% agreed. While the rest of the army goes with a new look. (Reminiscent of Abaddons chosen from ages ago) the core troops are still the same. Not a single re-sculpt of special characters, and Khorne is still the only God with plastic troops even though the various gods are played in a pretty fair mix… (Discounting the force feeding of Plastic Khorne by default)
I say update Core troops, plastic cults, new sculpts on heroes, plastic havocs, would’ve been a much better deal than these Jokes of models… Who ever coined the phrase Dino bot has it right.
I’m not gonna complain about prices or threaten to quit and all that non sense… I’ve taken plenty of time off 40K and G.W. as a whole and they still made there 193 million profit in 2011.
But instead of trying to create Carnifex type models in a Chaos force they could have updated the entire line thus reselling new copies of the heroes and troops to even the oldest of chaos players…
I will be buying some raptors...
I’m cool on the dino bots…
And Why Do the Oblitz look like tweedledee n Tweedledum in the face... tell me why?
Side note: who care if Plague marines loose feel no pain… it’s fluffy for both armies, DGs have burnt out nerve end and Slaanesh unload in their pant at the slightest scratch… they’ll still the same theme you know and love…
Are we expecting the chosen to live out this edition as DV only? Or do you think we will get a kit in the second wave? Rumours seemed to have stopped as soon as the first wave was leaked. Sources not talking about the second wave yet?
Side note: who care if Plague marines loose feel no pain… it’s fluffy for both armies, DGs have burnt out nerve end and Slaanesh unload in their pant at the slightest scratch… they’ll still the same theme you know and love…
Every Death Guard/Nurgle player ever? I don't think anyone is actually worried about Plague Marines loosing FNP, but that other units that are given the Mark of Nurgle cannot take an Icon to access FNP. This was the case in the codex we've had for the past 5 years as well, but limiting it to Slaanesh was unexpected.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I think the biggest priority should be a reworking of the regular chaos marines. The current ones no longer fit the new aesthetic.
110% agreed. While the rest of the army goes with a new look. (Reminiscent of Abaddons chosen from ages ago) the core troops are still the same. Not a single re-sculpt of special characters, and Khorne is still the only God with plastic troops even though the various gods are played in a pretty fair mix… (Discounting the force feeding of Plastic Khorne by default)
I say update Core troops, plastic cults, new sculpts on heroes, plastic havocs, would’ve been a much better deal than these Jokes of models… Who ever coined the phrase Dino bot has it right.
I’m not gonna complain about prices or threaten to quit and all that non sense… I’ve taken plenty of time off 40K and G.W. as a whole and they still made there 193 million profit in 2011.
GW would rather release brand new plastic kits than remake current ones. The old Necron warriors and Destroyers dont match the new models, not to mention the WFB armies with ugly core units that never get updated.
MetalOxide wrote: So there are no new plastic cult troops, we get some stupid looking dinobots and a mechanical dragon.... worst release ever!
What a refreshing observation.
This release is interesting thus far, and at first glance the codex is looking varied (in a good way) and full of potential.
On a positive note I do like the raptors and the finecast stuff. I was expecting so much more from GW for the Chaos release though. What I personally don't like about the Mauler fiend in particular is that I'm not sure what it is supposed to be, is it a Daemon? a Walker? GW should of stuck with doing Walkers with the spirits of Daemons trapped inside, they are never any good at making cyborg type minis.
MetalOxide wrote: So there are no new plastic cult troops, we get some stupid looking dinobots and a mechanical dragon.... worst release ever!
What a refreshing observation.
This release is interesting thus far, and at first glance the codex is looking varied (in a good way) and full of potential.
On a positive note I do like the raptors and the finecast stuff. I was expecting so much more from GW for the Chaos release though. What I personally don't like about the Mauler fiend in particular is that I'm not sure what it is supposed to be, is it a Daemon? a Walker?
Suppose we'll have to wait for the codex to see. I think it's neat in its own way, but I don't see myself fielding one. Much like I didn't ever field a Defiler.
I'm SO glad they made new raptors because I have a feeling they will be a viable, and important part of many armies now. Especially since I have over 20 built, and waiting, to play in some games.
So have the new WD in front of me. Dark Apostles seem to be common to every CSM Legion now and are simply the reverse of Space Marine Chaplains. No mention of Word Bearers are made in their entry. GW took a huge gak on the fluff, but after Newcrons this isn't very surprising...
The new CSM battleforce also removes the Berzerkers for 5 Possessed Marines.
Harriticus wrote: So have the new WD in front of me. Dark Apostles seem to be common to every CSM Legion now and are simply the reverse of Space Marine Chaplains. No mention of Word Bearers are made in their entry. GW took a huge gak on the fluff, but after Newcrons this isn't very surprising...
The new CSM battleforce also removes the Berzerkers for 5 Possessed Marines.
The last box had possessed. They took out berzerkers and 5 marines for 3 bikes.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
resipsa wrote: can someone please post the USD prices for these items?
The first page posts list them from the White Dwarf scans.
Here are some though:
Codex: Chaos Space Marines $49.50
Psychic Cards $7.50
Dark Apostle $19.25
Sorceror $19.25
Warpsmith $30.00
Aspiring Champion $20.00
Harriticus wrote: So have the new WD in front of me. Dark Apostles seem to be common to every CSM Legion now and are simply the reverse of Space Marine Chaplains. No mention of Word Bearers are made in their entry. GW took a huge gak on the fluff, but after Newcrons this isn't very surprising...
To be fair...
It was always stupid that the Dark Apostles were only in the Word Bearers. It's not like it was some kind of cult secret that only the Word Bearers would have known.
It removes an iconic element from a core (and in the HH books, ever more important) legion and spreads it thinly across everyone else to no consequence. I doubt BL or IW guys are jumping up and down with joy that they can now paint a Dark Apostle in their own colors... just like I doubt they would go nuts to paint a plague marine in their own colors either.
Part of the appeal of Chaos, to me anyways, was the distinction of both look and fluff. They seem to be watering down the legion flavors in favor of an overall chaos flavor, and that is something I personally find drastically less intruiging.
To me, Word Bearers need more attention, not less.
In addition to the above, focusing on the Corsairs and whatever red renegades were in DA is a poor decision when people had/have a lot of untapped investement in the core legions. Instead of half heartedly introducing new renegade bands (corsairs are pretty fleshed out so I am not particularly aiming my ire at them) they should be rewarding long time fans and also making their own lives easier by using the built in excitement that would be there waiting for them.
I was very excited when I saw the DA box contents, saying to myself, awesome! Word Bearers and DA!
I was very un-excited when I realized it was 'Misc Renegades I never heard of before and DA!'
Harriticus wrote: So have the new WD in front of me. Dark Apostles seem to be common to every CSM Legion now and are simply the reverse of Space Marine Chaplains. No mention of Word Bearers are made in their entry. GW took a huge gak on the fluff, but after Newcrons this isn't very surprising...
The new CSM battleforce also removes the Berzerkers for 5 Possessed Marines.
If I can play devil's advocate, I really doubt we can get even a halfway-decent scope of the fluff from the brief entries in White Dwarf.
To me, I've always found the idea of "Legion specific" things like Dark Apostles a tad silly. You're telling me that throughout all the Chaos Legions and Warbands of Renegades that there is nothing like a "Fallen Chaplain"?
I can't buy it. I just can't.
If Horus can fall, then why the hell can't Unnamed Chaplain #2752 from the Imperial Fists?
I don't see this as "neutering the Word Bearers!" or "punishing Word Bearers players!"--that happened last book. This is reintroducing one of their iconic character archetypes, but also making it so that they do not have to restrict themselves to just their Legion's rules.
For instance, if they put Fenrissian wolves into every SM army, I wouldn't be pleased either. If they called them Vat-grown warhounds or something instead, but they did the exact same thing I would be more or less ok with it. So long as they left the SW fluff alone I would have far less problems with it.
So if they simply called a fallen chaplain a dark chaplain, and left the dark apostles as an uber chaplain/sorceror for WB, I would have been happy. The Dark Apostles were never just simple chaplains...
By my interpretation of your logic, you would also think it is silly that there aren't World Eater Plague Marines running around? Or thousand son berserkers? WE have reasons to embrace pain... TS have reasons to be enraged...
If you follow that thinking to it's logical final conclusion, everything should go to everyone. There should be no difference in the Legions, or even legions at all, as every individual is different, and everyone would hear a different call of chaos, effectively making a uni-flavoured or at least directed theme force impossible.
It makes sense from a certain point of view if you subscribe to the admittedly logical idea that individuals would have fallen all kinds of ways, there is no such thing as a homogeneous mind-set when you get to it. However I don't think your position stands up to it's ultimate logical conclusion and remains applicable to the fluff or business model, that simply is not the mentality that this fictional universe is infused with.
Again though, it is perfectly fine that you feel differently.
On the topic but slightly tangential, had they explained why they changed the Dark Apostles to an all chaos unit, and actually made the fluff respect the old version while still advnacing the story to a new status quo, that would be cool too. Again, there are many ways to go about it that are so infinitely more engaging that simply retconning stuff willy-nilly, especially 'team' specific stuff that was formerly a selling point for that army within the faction.
As an example to the above, though initially resistant, I was OK with the Newcron fluff because they paid tribute to the old fluff in the book, however briefly, via the malfunctioning stasis and the zombie no mind necrons controlled by the tomb computers, explaining the initial encounters, establishing that it is not the actual status quo but doing so without just nullifying the pre-existing history out of hand.
Either way it is not that big a deal, but the fact that many of us are disapointed with the vanilla'ing of a big selling point of the WB legion, especially when the HH novels are selling them as an awesome and characterful force is not all that hard to understand. These guys are the true big-bads of 40k, worse than Horus even it seems. It sounds like Lorgar, once empowerred could have torn Horus in half... I would really like to see more WB stuff, certainly not have them be watered down and ignored.
To me, I've always found the idea of "Legion specific" things like Dark Apostles a tad silly. You're telling me that throughout all the Chaos Legions and Warbands of Renegades that there is nothing like a "Fallen Chaplain"?
I can't buy it. I just can't.
If Horus can fall, then why the hell can't Unnamed Chaplain #2752 from the Imperial Fists?
I don't see this as "neutering the Word Bearers!" or "punishing Word Bearers players!"--that happened last book. This is reintroducing one of their iconic character archetypes, but also making it so that they do not have to restrict themselves to just their Legion's rules.
The Dark Apostles are a little more than just "fallen Chaplains", Kanluwen. They are intrinsically connected with the governing and directing of the entire Word Bearers legion. They spread the word of Chaos directly to their followers in Lorgar's absence. The Dark Apostles are their own thing, and there's a lot more fluff and background behind becoming a Dark Apostle and what they are than just being a "fallen Chaplain". Other legions could have "fallen Chaplains", there's nothing wrong with that. But giving other Legions Dark Apostles is the equivalent of every Space Marine Chapter now having Wolf Lords. Or imagine if every Chapter had Sanguinary Guard or Death Company. Or if every Space Marine Chapter was looking for the Artefacts of Vulkan. The way Dark Apostles work only meshes with the background of the Word Bearers because they are intrinsically a Word Bearer "thing".
We'll see what the fluff actually looks like, but if I was a Word Bearers player, I'd be a bit peeved.
MajorTom11 wrote: It removes an iconic element from a core (and in the HH books, ever more important) legion and spreads it thinly across everyone else to no consequence. I doubt BL or IW guys are jumping up and down with joy that they can now paint a Dark Apostle in their own colors... just like I doubt they would go nuts to paint a plague marine in their own colors either.
Part of the appeal of Chaos, to me anyways, was the distinction of both look and fluff. They seem to be watering down the legion flavors in favor of an overall chaos flavor, and that is something I personally find drastically less intruiging.
To me, Word Bearers need more attention, not less.
In addition to the above, focusing on the Corsairs and whatever red renegades were in DA is a poor decision when people had/have a lot of untapped investement in the core legions. Instead of half heartedly introducing new renegade bands (corsairs are pretty fleshed out so I am not particularly aiming my ire at them) they should be rewarding long time fans and also making their own lives easier by using the built in excitement that would be there waiting for them.
I was very excited when I saw the DA box contents, saying to myself, awesome! Word Bearers and DA!
I was very un-excited when I realized it was 'Misc Renegades I never heard of before and DA!'
I completely agree with this.
The potential wasted on this release has been unreal, I'll bite my tongue from saying more until the book is in my hands and the second wave has hit. This was a no brainer release for GW.
Get the Cult troops out, bless us with multipart Chosen, Plastic Chaos Dreadnought. Perhaps even have a couple of the GD's, and have the other 2 be released with the Daemon Codex. It's baffling that they went down the route they did. I do very much approve of the new aesthetic, it definitely draws a massive contrast to the Loyalists. I guess we'll need to see what awaits us, but it is very disappointing at this early stage.
For instance, if they put Fenrissian wolves into every army, I wouldn't be pleased either. If they called Vat-grown warhounds or something that did the exact same thing, but left the SW fluff alone I would have far less problems with it.
So if they simply called a fallen chaplain a dark chaplain, and left the dark apostles as an uber chaplain/sorceror for WB, I would have been happy.
See, I think that's a bit of a bad example but I get what you're meaning. If the Word Bearers were their own Codex and didn't get Dark Apostles?
Then hell yes I would have a problem with it!
That very same reasoning that you used is why I was so annoyed that the Dark Angels Codex did not have the Mortis pattern Dreadnought, but the Space Marine Codex did.
By my interpretation of your logic, you also think it is silly that there aren't World Eater Plague Marines running around? Or thousand son berserkers? WE have reasons to embrace pain... TS have reasons to be enraged...
Everything should go to everyone and there should be no difference in the Legions, or even legions at all, everyone is different, and everyone would hear a different call of chaos.
It makes sense, but I don't think your position stands up to it's ultimate logical conclusion and remains applicable to the fluff or business model.
Berzerkers, Plague Marines, and Noise Marines are the only examples that I think I really should address here...and actually I've talked about it before in a few of the speculative threads or "How would you do X/Y/Z Codices?".
When it comes down to the "God specific" units, I'm of the opinion that they are different to things like the Warsmith or Dark Apostles.
The Dark Apostles, Sorcerers, and Warsmiths are "archetypes" so to speak, fairly generic examples which could exist in any of the Legions/Warbands. Plague Marines, Berzerkers, and Noise Marines certainly could exist in a kind of "lesser" form in the other Legions/Warbands as well, but I'd liken them to the difference between the Grey Knight Paladins/Terminators.
One is the real deal, the ultimate hardcase while the other is a pale imitation.
Thousand Sons are the only ones where you cannot get away with there being an entirely new, unknown unit of as they recycle their troops via the Warp. It's the same Thousand Sons fighting today as it was at the Battle of the Fang after the Heresy. The only difference is the armor that they're animating might be a bit newer.
But there's never been any issue with Sorcerers being available to the Death Guard/Nurgle Warbands, and I think that the introduction of Dark Apostles and War(p)smiths(I refuse to call them Warpsmiths. That's bad and whoever named them such should feel bad.) into the Chaos book can only be a good thing.
The only regrettable thing is, of course, that unless we have a Word Bearers character within the book it likely will not mean that they'll get some kind of special rules.
Again though, it is perfectly fine that you feel differently.
Actually the Possessed were always there, the Berserkers were replaced with 3 Bikes. Those two kits are the same price, so it is a fair trade, but still a poor Battleforce.
everyone complaining about the legions being watered down.... GW knows EXACTLY what its doing, new chaos dex.. check... everyone clamboring for legion specific rules
... HHFW books on way... check.
No one else seems to be making this connection so i thought i would throw it out there
MajorTom11 wrote: It removes an iconic element from a core (and in the HH books, ever more important) legion and spreads it thinly across everyone else to no consequence. I doubt BL or IW guys are jumping up and down with joy that they can now paint a Dark Apostle in their own colors... just like I doubt they would go nuts to paint a plague marine in their own colors either.
Part of the appeal of Chaos, to me anyways, was the distinction of both look and fluff. They seem to be watering down the legion flavors in favor of an overall chaos flavor, and that is something I personally find drastically less intruiging.
To me, Word Bearers need more attention, not less.
In addition to the above, focusing on the Corsairs and whatever red renegades were in DA is a poor decision when people had/have a lot of untapped investement in the core legions. Instead of half heartedly introducing new renegade bands (corsairs are pretty fleshed out so I am not particularly aiming my ire at them) they should be rewarding long time fans and also making their own lives easier by using the built in excitement that would be there waiting for them.
I was very excited when I saw the DA box contents, saying to myself, awesome! Word Bearers and DA!
I was very un-excited when I realized it was 'Misc Renegades I never heard of before and DA!'
Not that I want to specifically paint up a Dark Apostle model for an Iron Warriors force, but I would like to have a converted "Iron Apostle".
Realistically, you're not going to see GW produce a Legion specific character for every Legion, there's just too many models they would have to produce. So rather than try and do that, GW makes a more generic HW unit (in effect, a chaos chaplain) for all Legions to use.
Do you think if that had named it Warp Chaplain and had fluff similar to that of the SM Chaplain, would Word Bearers be mad because GW named it wrong?
The potential wasted on this release has been unreal, I'll bite my tongue from saying more until the book is in my hands and the second wave has hit. This was a no brainer release for GW.
Get the Cult troops out, bless us with multipart Chosen, Plastic Chaos Dreadnought. Perhaps even have a couple of the GD's, and have the other 2 be released with the Daemon Codex. It's baffling that they went down the route they did. I do very much approve of the new aesthetic, it definitely draws a massive contrast to the Loyalists. I guess we'll need to see what awaits us, but it is very disappointing at this early stage.
While I agree with you on what should have been released, it was not a no brainer to do so. GW releases all those things and sure, they would get sales, but nowhere near the sales they are going to get from releasing shiny new units. I have a shelf full of CSM boxes waiting to be put together. If they went by your suggestion, I'd be buying the codex and nothing else. Over time I'd buy some of the new kits, but why would I replace 5 boxes of CSMs if I don't have to? That would be $200 I don't have to buy. Whereas if I want to play with a Chaos flyer, or new Daemon Engines, or play with Helltalons, I am shelling out a boatload of new cash, and GW can catch some more money for me later by redoing to the boxes you suggest.
CrashCanuck wrote: So long as they allow the actual Plague Marines to retain their FnP I don't really have a problem with slaanesh granting it with the icon, it does make sense for them.
Any word about possible new special characters? I'm really hoping with the focus turning to the DA that Cypher will make a re-appearance
Its just another codex shift. The old dex was two lash princes, 9 obliterators, and as many plague marines as you can fill up for troops. So naturally, Lash is gone, plague marines are no longer the bees knees and Oblits are being split into two different units.
It sucks for themed armies though such as my Nurgle army because now the icon grants fear which is apparently pointless in this edition and the Plague Marines are now 24 pts because they have poisoned which is useless; since when are you going to assault with plague marines in the first place? Also fnp is 5+ instead of 4+ :(
FNP is way better now. Sure its 5+ but nothing negates it at toughness 5. It makes units way more survivable overall. The point extra for gaining poisoned is not bad either, and fits the fluff as well.
Plus, for those despairing....
Epidemius.
Just saying. Epidemius will gift you chums with a 3+ FNP and that in itself is somewhat silly.
Dark Apostle in Terminator Unit with Typhus? With 3+ FNP due to Epidemius' magic number?
Oh my indeed.
Epi only improves existing FNP. He does not give it. In addition, his poison buff only works on Plague Swords.
Aaaaaand if the Dark Apostle is giving the Terminators FNP.....then I guess he improves that too, yes?
And the magic number of 20 turns anything with bolter fire into a monster. Armour ignoring indeed.
where are you getting Dark Apostles giving units FNP? Icons of Slannesh give FNP, presumeably only to units with mark of slannesh, so they would not benefit from Epi. Dark Aposiles are going to carry a cursed power maul(name?)
Harriticus wrote: So have the new WD in front of me. Dark Apostles seem to be common to every CSM Legion now and are simply the reverse of Space Marine Chaplains. No mention of Word Bearers are made in their entry. GW took a huge gak on the fluff, but after Newcrons this isn't very surprising...
To be fair...
It was always stupid that the Dark Apostles were only in the Word Bearers. It's not like it was some kind of cult secret that only the Word Bearers would have known.
MOST non Word Bearer chapalins were killed, not all. So i think multiple armies should be able to take them.
Looking at the clear pictures, the helldrake is actually the best of the large kits. Remove the head, excess spikes and claws and you'll get a nice looking flying demon engine. Maybe add a mechanical lamprey mouth in the neck socket for extra effect, but even plugging it with a round shield with a chaos symbol would be enough. Add chains and presto, you've got a welded "insertion" hatch.
The maluers require a new set of non fleshy legs and doing something with the awful head. Probably just skipping it would be enough.
Oh lord, that's hilarious. You really, really have to be kidding me, right?
To be fair we were prepared for most of them. Typhus going to £15? OOF.
Forgefiends/Maulfiends at £40? OOF.
And to top it off? Helldrake at £45. Eesh.
That's £9 more than the big Warhammer monsters. So those of us who were unimpressed and considering Zombie Dragon or Arachnarok conversions can rejoice at least!
unmercifulconker wrote: I see something very disturbing when looking at the dragons rear end and I cannot unsee it
I posted some time ago that this wouldn't be what they did, and it is what they did.
I still maintain that if the wings were flipped from side to side with a swept back look, it would most likely look much better.
However, at that cost I think I would rather get the Hell Blade.
[Edit] Also, since I'm broke and can't buy one immediately..... I demand someone get a Mauler, put a marine on it's back (standing up) and run a chain from his hand down through the Maulers mouth. That should turn it up to 11, at least.
The B/W codex is pretty cool, but completely impractical. You'd need to buy the £30 quid one to avoid ruining the other.
His Master's Voice wrote: Looking at the clear pictures, the helldrake is actually the best of the large kits. Remove the head, excess spikes and claws and you'll get a nice looking flying demon engine. Maybe add a mechanical lamprey mouth in the neck socket for extra effect, but even plugging it with a round shield with a chaos symbol would be enough. Add chains and presto, you've got a welded "insertion" hatch.
The maluers require a new set of non fleshy legs and doing something with the awful head. Probably just skipping it would be enough.
You've sold me on the Drake. Could look great with your suggested conversion. Kind of like a giant mechanical Screamer.
Wow, will any of these not need to be returned?. I've heard people saying Finecast has been improving of late. I hope for the sake of anyone who buys this guy that it's true.
Cult troops are Elites... if no one noticed yet. Wonder how that will sort out in the Codex? People with 4-6 squads of cult troops might be a bit upset...
BladeWalker wrote: Cult troops are Elites... if no one noticed yet. Wonder how that will sort out in the Codex? People with 4-6 squads of cult troops might be a bit upset...
What the hell... this has to be a mistake:
The Heldrake is listed at $89 in Canada, but only $81 in Australia! It's the only one listed cheaper too so there's no way that that's the real deal.
BladeWalker wrote: Cult troops are Elites... if no one noticed yet. Wonder how that will sort out in the Codex? People with 4-6 squads of cult troops might be a bit upset...
iirc taking a specific hq makes them troops
indeed if you take a mark of a god on your Chaos lord the appropriate cult troop becomes troops
I've been checking the 360º views and, while not as excited as with the Necron and Dark Eldar, I must say Chaos got a nice and well deserved upgrade.
- Dinoriders my fat shiny a**. The fiends look rightfully impressive, and will stack up nicely amongst the new and existing Chaos miniatures. I can't wait to see a Khorne-y Maulerfiend.
- The Dragon. Not exactly toylike, but still somewhat silly. Seen from the side it resembles an angry iron chicken. Seen from the rear... well. Is it just me or that exhaust port looks like an enormous...errrr... donkey-cave?
- The raptors/warp talons are beautiful, as expected.
- The Mutilators look slightly better on the GW site. More like a terminator suffering an excruciating mutation, less like a slowed gorilla on steriods.
- The Aspiring Champion is frankly cool. And plastic. Yay!
- Both the Warpsmith and the Dark Apostle are impressively baroque exercises in sculpting. I thought it would be easy to convert those adding a couple mechadendrites/purity seals to a Space Marine here and there... but matching their convoluted style is going to take more effort and skill.
- The upgrade packs look just plain fugly and I'd advise anyone willing to go the Night Lords/Iron Warriors/Thousand Sons/Emperor's Children route to grab some forgeworld pre-heresy armor bits and some greenstuff instead. Back to the drawing board, GW. Those may work as a stopgap measure but are far from satisfactory.
GOD DAMNIT! I was really happy to heard about the new chaos codex, but since stuffs are getting out i'm starting to get pissed off. Hope the codex won't be a dissapointment....
Also, HQ marks making those cult marines troops is a good move, IMHO. Fits more with the warband mentality. My only disappointment with this release is price creep. But that doesn't surprise me in the least.
Simmer down now! We've also been told that taking a mark of a specific Chaos god unlocks their cult marines as troops.
So, like with the last dex and every one before it, you take your HQ, give them the mark of your choice. Now, take the cult marines that worship the same Chaos god as your HQ as troops!
Extreaminatus wrote: Simmer down now! We've also been told that taking a mark of a specific Chaos god unlocks their cult marines as troops.
So, like with the last dex and every one before it, you take your HQ, give them the mark of your choice. Now, take the cult marines that worship the same Chaos god as your HQ as troops!
edit: beat'd
Well that makes sense and really wouldn't change anything. I retract my previous madness in that case.
No not really, I have a Marvel comics encyclopedia. It is hard back, 400 glossy full colour pages and cost me £30 bought new from WHSmiths and of better quality in terms of binding than any of GW's books,
No not really, I have a Marvel comics encyclopedia. It is hard back, 400 glossy full colour pages and cost me £30 bought new from WHSmiths.
Well... this book has a whatchamacallit "gate fold" reference page. Totally worth 50 bucks.
I was gonna be buying some FFG Deathwatch rulebooks. Those are larger, full cover, more pages, lotsa artwork and fluff, and still either 10 dollars more or 20 less for the supplements.
No not really, I have a Marvel comics encyclopedia. It is hard back, 400 glossy full colour pages and cost me £30 bought new from WHSmiths and of better quality in terms of binding than any of GW's books,
Exactly. I have a feeling GW is experimenting with exactly how much they can demand before they actually suffer a significant loss in sales.
Onlinemph wrote:Why would anyone buy the limited edition?
It befuddles me.
If I was a earning $50,000+ yearly and single, I would for collecting reasons, but I have no other expensive hobbies that would get in the way of doing so. For most people the price is ludicrous, but LE products are not for most people.
boowtf22 wrote: GOD DAMNIT! I was really happy to heard about the new chaos codex, but since stuffs are getting out i'm starting to get pissed off. Hope the codex won't be a dissapointment....
Dude, chill out, cult units going from troops to elite has been rumored for well over 3 months and all you need is a Lord with a mark to unlock them as troops.
Why? Because there's only a thousand of them and just because the idea of 'limited edition' has no value to you doesn't mean others don't want their shiny, leather bound, silver leafed parchment paper codex and want it NOW.
All I have to say is....I'm not paying that much. I'll buy from a discount source online, maybe even used from ebay at half the cost a year later before I pay what they are asking. Not that I'll buy anything for an army I don't play to include All Marines, Chaos or otherwise, but I can see the cost of my armies being this ,if not more do to the yearly price rise, when they are released.
I know the stuff for the mark but my dissapoitment is that i loved playing all sorts of cult troops together and now i won't be able, even if i'm playing deathguard, i would of love to have some berzerker or noise as troops thats why i'm mad
Yeah, the one shining light in the price creep is I have a 20% discount on GW stuff at my FLGS. Sad, though, when 20% off puts the prices back around where they really should be.
*edit*
I think the cult troops as elites (which they really should have been all along, and when I first got into CSM was surpised they weren't) was a nod to the fluff, since they seem to be poking holes in it regarding Dark Apostles. Cult troops as (troops) made me never want to take generic CSM. All of those models I used as Chosen (5 infiltrating melta/plasma/flamers? Yes please).
boowtf22 wrote: I know the stuff for the mark but my dissapoitment is that i loved playing all sorts of cult troops together and now i won't be able, even if i'm playing deathguard, i would of love to have some berzerker or noise as troops thats why i'm mad
Chaos Lord/Sorceror Lord /w Mark of Nurgle = Plague Marines Troops, take others as elites.
Well at least he can be sure that he is compatible with both domestic and foreign outlets...
Seriously why does he need a MILLION different hoses attached to nothing?! It really must be the outlet thing
Maybe, just maybe, he works with a bunch of different ports that he needs to plug into during the course of his duties as the only one fixing anything mechanical in the entirety of the Chaos army?
I mean, that's a lot of stuff for just one dude to do in an entire army. Man needs to make sure he can plug up.
Or maybe they wanted it to look like a cape of cables. You know, for looks.
boowtf22 wrote: I know the stuff for the mark but my dissapoitment is that i loved playing all sorts of cult troops together and now i won't be able, even if i'm playing deathguard, i would of love to have some berzerker or noise as troops thats why i'm mad
Chaos Lord/Sorceror Lord /w Mark of Nurgle = Plague Marines Troops, take others as elites.
+1 to Amaya here.
Or, instead of taking others as elites, take another cheap HQ, give him a MoK and take Berzerkers as troops too.
This isn't a terribly hard equation to figure out.
Orktavius wrote: Why? Because there's only a thousand of them and just because the idea of 'limited edition' has no value to you doesn't mean others don't want their shiny, leather bound, silver leafed parchment paper codex and want it NOW.
I don't care if they're limited or not, the book looks awesome vOv
I like how they have some benefits for going undivided with the boons/gifts. All of the 4 factions are cool, but I think it is neat, fluffwise when a force is devoted to the whole concept of Chaos, whatever that is.
I think the Maulerfiend is the weakest of them all. I was really hoping it would have a much beefier close combat aspect. I think the Helbrute feet and/or legs might do well on a conversion for that. Thanks to His Master's Voice for his suggestions on the Helldrake as well. Was considering just doing a kitbash of it with a Hell Talon/Blade.
Agent_Tremolo wrote: Cult troops are listed under 'elites' on GW's site, hence...
Cult Troops as elites would ruin this codex.
I really hope it's a goof, but I doubt it.
Unless Orks gets some love, I'm done with GW.
With a childish attitude like that I'd be inclined to think they'd say good riddance.
Seriously, how long have you been playing CSM? Cult units always needed a HQ to make them Troops before the current Codex simplification. We're just getting with the old times once again without some of the silliness than was then possible.
Agent_Tremolo wrote: Cult troops are listed under 'elites' on GW's site, hence...
Cult Troops as elites would ruin this codex.
I really hope it's a goof, but I doubt it.
Unless Orks gets some love, I'm done with GW.
With a childish attitude like that I'd be inclined to think they'd say good riddance.
Seriously, how long have you been playing CSM? Cult units always needed a HQ to make them Troops before the current Codex simplification. We're just getting with the old times once again without some of the silliness than was then possible.
He changed his tune once he was informed that HQ marks unlock the cult marines as troops.
Extreaminatus wrote: Simmer down now! We've also been told that taking a mark of a specific Chaos god unlocks their cult marines as troops.
So, like with the last dex and every one before it, you take your HQ, give them the mark of your choice. Now, take the cult marines that worship the same Chaos god as your HQ as troops!
edit: beat'd
Well that makes sense and really wouldn't change anything. I retract my previous madness in that case.
Old Raptors are gone. I'm sad to see them go, but I'm sure I can find someone to cast some of the old ones for me. The models were rubbish, but I did like the packs.
You know, if Noise Marines could take special weapons in addition to the Sonic weapons, I'd actually consider taking them. While I'm not a big fan of the Emperor's Children, I do like guys who are all about Radical Good Speed, but I don't like the look of Noise Weaponry and don't want to go with "Count As".
Also, it would be neat if in regular CSM squads you could take extra power weapons in lieu of special/heavy shooting weapons-at least in Beserker squads who are close combat oriented.
Samus_aran115 wrote: Old Raptors are gone. I'm sad to see them go, but I'm sure I can find someone to cast some of the old ones for me. The models were rubbish, but I did like the packs.
skarsol wrote: Ever think that's their goal? Make FW seem affordable right as they introduce it to stores?
No...you have it backwards. They see how much people are willing to spend on FW models and want just as much for the GW products. The people buying FW products redefine what's "affordable" in GWs eyes.
Well at least he can be sure that he is compatible with both domestic and foreign outlets...
Seriously why does he need a MILLION different hoses attached to nothing?! It really must be the outlet thing
Maybe, just maybe, he works with a bunch of different ports that he needs to plug into during the course of his duties as the only one fixing anything mechanical in the entirety of the Chaos army?
I mean, that's a lot of stuff for just one dude to do in an entire army. Man needs to make sure he can plug up.
Or maybe they wanted it to look like a cape of cables. You know, for looks.
The Imperium has forgotten how to make USBs. I guess he plugs into something special
Ok, I caved and put my order in. I looked at the Fiends and then looked at my 6 Heavy choices and 6 Elite choices I already have and went... "nah". Last Codex left me no good choices for Fast Attack so I only have a Raptor squad and a Bike squad... might as well add in a Heldrake eh? So... Codex, Cards, OMGDRAGON, and that should do it for me.
Is the rumor of more models in 2 weeks falling away now or are we still expecting something... if so, what?
BladeWalker wrote: Last Codex left me no good choices for Fast Attack so I only have a Raptor squad and a Bike squad... might as well add in a Heldrake eh?
I keep hoping there is some fast attack choice we've yet to hear about... It's been a slim part of the chaos codex for several editions.
That said...I think I like most of them, now that I've given them a once over. I become a bigger fan of that Helldrake every time I look. The Warpsmith...I actually think is worth it. Check out the 360, it's a ridiculous amount of detail and a great model...something I'd expect out of Forge World. I just don't like the head
I'm sold on the Raptors. I just need to know how many of those I can use. I even like the Warp Talons better, though I wouldn't use the heads or the little sidewings. Which means I'm probably just looking at Raptors anyway
The Aspiring Champ looks even better. I couldn't help thinking about how much fun it would be to paint it. $20 though...I'd like to see the sprue at least. There are box sets full of plastic for a few dollars more, so I hope it's packed with bits and options.
And now, the Dinosaurs. Yup, I see it...but I think a head swap could leave you with some very cool models. Imagine the Maulerfiend with one of the Defiler heads. Not bad, eh?
Those Mutilators. Put the head of Rush Limbaugh on a crab, swallow it whole and poop it out. Mutilators.
Did anyone else just laugh and shake their head when the mutilators came on screen? They really do believe those things are worth showing off, don't they?
I think the maulerfiend would look cooler if you cut the stupid tongue off, and then used some plasticard and putty to make a big iron lower jaw that covers up most of its ugly teeth, not unlike an ork "gob".
Sidstyler wrote: Did anyone else just laugh and shake their head when the mutilators came on screen? They really do believe those things are worth showing off, don't they?
I think the maulerfiend would look cooler if you cut the stupid tongue off, and then used some plasticard and putty to make a big iron lower jaw that covers up most of its ugly teeth, not unlike an ork "gob".
Ugh, the Mutilators really were just a failure. They could have redone Oblits and Muts to make them actually appealing models. Instead they stuck with the same style and made it finecast.
I think the Mutilators look kind of cool. I think they need a little conversion work to make them look less static, but I think they're a great concept that could look great with a little elbow-grease.
BladeWalker wrote: Last Codex left me no good choices for Fast Attack so I only have a Raptor squad and a Bike squad... might as well add in a Heldrake eh?
I keep hoping there is some fast attack choice we've yet to hear about... It's been a slim part of the chaos codex for several editions.
I don't think the Codex has any hidden unit left, at least for the Fast Attack slots. With five choices (counting the Warp Talons), Chaos is now on par with armies like Daemons, Eldar both light and dark and Vanilla Marines. Best we can hope is having some of the previously unusable units fixed. I'm thinking of Spawn, mostly.
However, what surprises me most is the absolute clutter of mis-matched units the HS and Elite slots have become. Elites, in particular, boasts no less than eight different options, not counting Helbrutes and Chosen which most likely belong in the elites slot too.
I can't say I don't like it, though. Looks like Kelly's new direction for Chaos involves less "woohoo random dice rolling" and more "no two armies alike". We'll find out soon.
possessed look good, from what me and my friend were able to BARELY read in the codex, looks like they have 2 wounds
Heldrake (WD spells it with 1 'l')has some sort of flamer option
Trevak Dal wrote: You know, if Noise Marines could take special weapons in addition to the Sonic weapons, I'd actually consider taking them. While I'm not a big fan of the Emperor's Children, I do like guys who are all about Radical Good Speed, but I don't like the look of Noise Weaponry and don't want to go with "Count As".
Also, it would be neat if in regular CSM squads you could take extra power weapons in lieu of special/heavy shooting weapons-at least in Beserker squads who are close combat oriented.
In the 3.5 codex cult marines were CSM upgraded with a mark. As such they had the same heavy/special weapon options as expected, then the mark just opened up more weapon options. I really hope the new dex goes this route. Sonic blasters are fun, but you will need to get melta guns into your army from somewhere.
Also to anyone complaining that any legion can take Dark Apostles. I promise not to include on in my EC army. After all, my HQ options will probably be full of Lord (special character if required) and a sorcerer.
I think a lot of armies are going to this route, I just don't see Dark Apostles showing up in all armies. There are probably too many good options fighting for their slot.
so does this codex measure up to the old 3.5 ed one?
are cult troops only elites now?
some of those models are very ugly, I must say...mind you I feel the need to convert everything chaos anyways so...
So, as if Psychic rolls, and "Commander Traits" where not enough, now a lucky player can have free Daemon Princes, just killing sergeants? Ok, that is odd and unbalanced...
The Dwarf Wolf wrote: So, as if Psychic rolls, and "Commander Traits" where not enough, now a lucky player can have free Daemon Princes, just killing sergeants? Ok, that is odd and unbalanced...
That lucky player can also have free chaos spawn for killing sergeants as well.
Well I must say that now I've gotten a good look at the new models, they actually look pretty darn cool. The fiends and drake look a lot better than I thought from the leaked pictures, still overpriced though. I think the characters are pretty cool. Oblits still look really silly though :(
Having gotten a good look at the size of the heldrake (comparing it to the base), I think using a zombie dragon/terrorgheist with adjusted pose and on a flying stand will actually work pretty well as soon as I figure our what to do about the weapons
Cant believe the Aspiring Champion is 2 pounds cheaper than SM Commander and has only 8 components...
The dragon looks toyish but might be converted in a good way. Fiends look better on the pics but still, that Maulerfiend head is just silly. Forgefiend (with weapon head) looks pretty cool.
Dont like the raptors, they indeed look too busy :(
Well... i just saw the one click bundle. $300 CAD... GW is out of their bloody damn insane minds. $300 for all of the new toys and a hardcover codex? For $60??? I regret the money I just spent on dark vengeance. I'm seriously considering selling it and everyhing else off...... and after doing the math, the one-click bundle doesn't even offer a discount......
Shame for no Divination. Maulerfiend isn't looking too bad. I wonder if you can give it marks.
EDIT: For those complaining about prices, Frontline gaming is running a 25% discount for preorders. It'd be a good way to save money, and brings down the kits to bearable prices.
Having been a huge fan of CSM I was very excited about this release, but now I've just lost all interest.
I'm not impressed with any of this. I did like the Raptors/Warp Talons, but now that I've looked closer they're just too overloaded and simply too much. The fiend and the goatsedrake are among the most ridiculous things the company has ever released.
I'm not that impressed with the models overall. They seem scattered conceptually, and lack a maturity. The Dragon is terrible as are the two engine things... which is a shame as the Hellbrute and cultists showed a promising start....
The Warpsmith is astonishing though... that nail was hit perfectly on the head.
Perhaps im too critical... i just dont see how they are going to top Dark Eldar... easily the best release (conceptually, models-wise) in 10s of years.
I really hope no ne buys that battle force. What a rubbish box set, take out 8 Zerkers and I think 5 standerd CSM and add three bikes... And put the price up. Nice.
Only the single frequency Blastmaster and Doom Siren are AP3, the blasters are AP5.
Gotta love the head of the Corvidae not having access to Divination spells, and being forced to accept challenges. Where his reward for winning is to mutate uncontrollably. You know, the guy who hated mutation so much he gathered his mates and caused havoc across the Planet of Sorcerers casting a spell specifically to ensure none of them would mutate again.
At least IW have a bit of choice for their Lords at the moment....
Old-school WARsmith. Looks really nice but has more of a combat look than a "tech marine" look to it - easliy converted though (i replaced the claw with an axe and the servo-arm with a conversion beamer). Also, unless you biuld it it up it doesn't really stand out as a center piece as well as the bigger models.
Classy Techmarine - my personal fave. The website says it's still metal though.......It also comes with a bolter arm as well as the scanner arm. These also look good painted up in Iron Warrior colours.
The new War(p)smith. I personally think it looks too busy and I plan on converting my existing "Classy Techmarine" (as above) instead of getting this one - partly due to this being in FineCast and i can see those Mechandrites snapping off if the wind blows the wrong way.
Can't wait to see the rules section for the War(p)smith though.
Failing those - get a plastic Demon Prince and convert it to carry a Hammer form the DreadKnight kit.
I think that a unit of noise marines would be extra useful with these new rules, though it depends on their cost overall.
But the new weapons are good. An emperors children army is very viable but if cult are elites don't know how it will be fixed.
Do we know if mark specific lords unlock cult units as troops?
avedominusnox wrote: I think that a unit of noise marines would be extra useful with these new rules, though it depends on their cost overall. But the new weapons are good. An emperors children army is very viable but if cult are elites don't know how it will be fixed. Do we know if mark specific lords unlock cult units as troops?
That's the rumor.
I don't see why it wouldn't though, it balances the force nicely. You know, instead of having ALL THE CULTS, you have to pick what you're want as scoring units.
I don't see why it wouldn't though, it balances the force nicely. You know, instead of having ALL THE CULTS, you have to pick what you're want as scoring units.
Uh, not assaulting with Noise Marines, I guess. They're a mid-to-long range fire support unit, not an assault force. Plop them on an objective, drown the enemy in a wall of noise.
I'm not usually one to complain about much, but I feel this has to be said:
$83 for the Codex in Australia. $83. The collector's edition runs you $138, by the way. I could -just- understand it at $62, after all, it was a jump from $55, so not that bad, really, and lots of extra quality and so forth. But $83? I'll have to look at what they're asking for the digital copy, otherwise, it's overseas for me.
To be fair, I'm rather disappointed with the new releases. GW has jacked up the price of the Codexes by £10, with the fancy edition just being in b/w, having a tiny blood splat, and a bookmark ribbon. Even though it's a nice cover they still couldn't bother to come up with a new cover image, rather than recycling one already used by the BL?
I really dont understand why people whine about the models. Overall they are great IMO. The Mutilators look like crap but thats it. Everything else is either good (Forgefiends, HellDrake) or awesome (Raptors, Sorceror, Dark Apostle, ect ect ect). Sure the price of the book is possibly step compared to some books. But seeing how some physics books costs $300 its still not extremely expensive.
tedurur wrote: I really dont understand why people whine about the models. Overall they are great IMO. The Mutilators look like crap but thats it. Everything else is either good (Forgefiends, HellDrake) or awesome (Raptors, Sorceror, Dark Apostle, ect ect ect). Sure the price of the book is possibly step compared to some books. But seeing how some physics books costs $300 its still not extremely expensive.
People have opinions that differ from your own? Or is that an absurd idea?
tedurur wrote: I really dont understand why people whine about the models. Overall they are great IMO. The Mutilators look like crap but thats it. Everything else is either good (Forgefiends, HellDrake) or awesome (Raptors, Sorceror, Dark Apostle, ect ect ect). Sure the price of the book is possibly step compared to some books. But seeing how some physics books costs $300 its still not extremely expensive.
With all due respect, but a physics book is on a whole different level than a mere codex for a tabletop game. I can't recall any GW employee having some sort of title
tedurur wrote: I really dont understand why people whine about the models. Overall they are great IMO. The Mutilators look like crap but thats it. Everything else is either good (Forgefiends, HellDrake) or awesome (Raptors, Sorceror, Dark Apostle, ect ect ect). Sure the price of the book is possibly step compared to some books. But seeing how some physics books costs $300 its still not extremely expensive.
People have opinions that differ from your own? Or is that an absurd idea?
Not sure if serious? Seeing how you have a "Union Jack" as your country flag I will asssume that your native tounge is English....For that reason I would assume that you understand that when Im writing "I really dont understand why people whine about the models." Im not really bafled by "Why they are whining", but Im bafled over the fact that so many people find the models so bad that they complain about them.
tedurur wrote: I really dont understand why people whine about the models. Overall they are great IMO. The Mutilators look like crap but thats it. Everything else is either good (Forgefiends, HellDrake) or awesome (Raptors, Sorceror, Dark Apostle, ect ect ect). Sure the price of the book is possibly step compared to some books. But seeing how some physics books costs $300 its still not extremely expensive.
People have opinions that differ from your own? Or is that an absurd idea?
Not sure if serious? Seeing how you have a "Union Jack" as your country flag I will asssume that your native tounge is English....For that reason I would assume that you understand that when Im writing "I really dont understand why people whine about the models." Im not really bafled by "Why they are whining", but Im bafled over the fact that so many people find the models so bad that they complain about them.
People have opinions and this forum is effectively a discussion board, meaning that people can express their opinions and fuss say what they wish of a product, fuss they are able to criticise if they wish to do so.
tedurur wrote: I really dont understand why people whine about the models. Overall they are great IMO. The Mutilators look like crap but thats it. Everything else is either good (Forgefiends, HellDrake) or awesome (Raptors, Sorceror, Dark Apostle, ect ect ect). Sure the price of the book is possibly step compared to some books. But seeing how some physics books costs $300 its still not extremely expensive.
People have opinions that differ from your own? Or is that an absurd idea?
Not sure if serious? Seeing how you have a "Union Jack" as your country flag I will asssume that your native tounge is English....For that reason I would assume that you understand that when Im writing "I really dont understand why people whine about the models." Im not really bafled by "Why they are whining", but Im bafled over the fact that so many people find the models so bad that they complain about them.
People have opinions and this forum is effectively a discussion board, meaning that people can express their opinions and fuss say what they wish of a product, fuss they are able to criticise if they wish to do so.
Great mechanical Sean Connery (dragon is as stupid as I feared, can I just get the FW chaos fighter jet please?!), Zoids? (daemon engine things), Sloth/Chunk looking "maulers", and Warp Talons that have gak that just looks like spare bitz thown together. All the other models I like though, not blown away like I was by the DE release but they do look good besides the ones I mentioned above.
tedurur wrote: I really dont understand why people whine about the models. Overall they are great IMO. The Mutilators look like crap but thats it. Everything else is either good (Forgefiends, HellDrake) or awesome (Raptors, Sorceror, Dark Apostle, ect ect ect). Sure the price of the book is possibly step compared to some books. But seeing how some physics books costs $300 its still not extremely expensive.
People have opinions that differ from your own? Or is that an absurd idea?
Not sure if serious? Seeing how you have a "Union Jack" as your country flag I will asssume that your native tounge is English....For that reason I would assume that you understand that when Im writing "I really dont understand why people whine about the models." Im not really bafled by "Why they are whining", but Im bafled over the fact that so many people find the models so bad that they complain about them.
People have opinions and this forum is effectively a discussion board, meaning that people can express their opinions and fuss say what they wish of a product, fuss they are able to criticise if they wish to do so.
Your point being?
People can have their own opinions and express them how they please, whether it's through a rant or whining, so get over it.
Im not very happy that the damn codex is $50. Thats......pretty expensive no matter how you slice it, specially considering many game systems out there, have free rules for your armies. But the minis look pretty good to me
Not sure about the pricing of the codex, it looks like a high quality product but £30 is a bit much, oh well atleast it's available from the online discounters for considerably less.
The models are definitely a mixed back IMO, the fiends and characters I like a lot, the flying dragon thing is fairly woeful in the pictures but like some of the other flyer kits it might look better in real life. I'm not sure if I like the new Raptors but it's nice to see CSM get some plastic jump pack troops. Then there's the absolute nadir for me, the Mutilators, even uglier version of a model (and indeed concept) I detest.
I'll definitely be picking up the codex and pychic power cards. Although I do find myself eyeing up a small Iron Warriors army so I might end upbuying more that I intend.
People are so different. I for example can't really understand these price complaints like people are shocked or something, just like I find it incredibly funny when a GW employee or another hobbyists asks me what army I'm "collecting".
I don't collect any armies. When I want an army I go and buy it. Sometimes I might add units to it, but I'm not collecting any models in the sense that GW means it, which I understand to mean a kid slowly building up his force with his weekly allowance. Similarly, comments like the following make me wonder:
I got my Hellblade a few years ago and it was £30. Now they're £52!?!?!?!?!
bang goes my though of fielding a squadron of them.
So basically the person was willing to buy three or more of the models for approximately 100£ but now that the squadron costs 150£ he's only going to buy one or none at all. Sure that's a particularly steep prince increase if true, but I suspect this really only touches people who 'collect' models. People who buy models without any particular reason every month with whatever little pocket money they have. I buy a ~5000 point army every two or three years or so and order it from some discount retailer and although it's more expensive each time so is everything else out there in the world so I really can't see the problem.
As far as the model quality is concerned there's the usual knee-jerkers going on about claiming everything is garbage and they're entitled to their vocal opinion. I'm sure that once again most people are very satisfied with GW's product. The overall model quality is always climbing higher (as opposed to rules quality which never improves), and there might still be some things we don't know about future releases and to-be updated units.
Praxiss wrote: What did the limited edition actually give you that the normal one didn't?
Blood splatters, black and white cover and a letter.
Truly worth 50 pounds.
A Letter?
Dear Hobbyist,
LOLZ Sucker!!
Hugs and Kisses,
GW.
The Aspiring Champion blurb says it is "Games Workshops first ever plastic single model"........Did the Sm Captain and Chaos Terminator Lord kits get ret-conned or something?
tedurur wrote: I really dont understand why people whine about the models. Overall they are great IMO. The Mutilators look like crap but thats it. Everything else is either good (Forgefiends, HellDrake) or awesome (Raptors, Sorceror, Dark Apostle, ect ect ect).
How about this then? The Mutilators look like crap, and so does everything else.
tedurur wrote: I really dont understand why people whine about the models. Overall they are great IMO. The Mutilators look like crap but thats it. Everything else is either good (Forgefiends, HellDrake) or awesome (Raptors, Sorceror, Dark Apostle, ect ect ect).
How about this then? The Mutilators look like crap, and so does everything else.
Amen. The more I see of them the less I like them. Raptors being the only exception and even there I have some issues. For instance, molded lightning bolts on the greaves? REALLY? Because someone might want to make them not Night Lords and you can't have that?
fishy bob....really? Its completely objective. Dumping your opinions on other is no fun.
I don't mind the models, but a $40 price difference in price form UK codex is so stupid. I think I will be ordering mine from overseas for sure. Screw GW, making a loss might be the only way to get them to notice that people are stupid and will take the cheaper option.
£30 for a codex does not bother me, I only need it once and it lasts 5+ years (or 10 if your a oldcron player), If its good quality (looks like it is) then im ok with it... still not gonna get it though.... DA are around the corner... yeah
I'm suprised at the suprise of the cost of the Codex. Fantasy has been doing hard cover for a while now. It's a 10% mark up on what they've been charging on the Fantasy books, yeah, but much smaller then the 20% on other models that have been released.
tedurur wrote: I really dont understand why people whine about the models. Overall they are great IMO. The Mutilators look like crap but thats it. Everything else is either good (Forgefiends, HellDrake) or awesome (Raptors, Sorceror, Dark Apostle, ect ect ect).
How about this then? The Mutilators look like crap, and so does everything else.
How about what then? Have I ever said that people arent allowed to have opinions that differ from mine? No I havent, I meerly said that I dont understand WHY they dont like them. Your "eloquent" comment does nothing to enlighten me either.
)
). Looks like my converted 
