SickSix wrote:
Is this stuff for sale today? Or on pre-order?

Pre-order still. The 1st will be the release.

djones520 wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
Is this stuff for sale today? Or on pre-order?

Pre-order still. The 1st will be the release.

No the 6th is the release.

Maybe I'm missing something but are Thousand Sons ridiculously expensive to buy now? Looks like you need to buy a box of regular CSM AND the upgrade pack? So you're looking at £36 at least unless I'm working it out wrong. CSM was one of the only releases I had any interest in but if Thousand Sons are going to cost that much, forget it.

 Neith wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something but are Thousand Sons ridiculously expensive to buy now? Looks like you need to buy a box of regular CSM AND the upgrade pack? So you're looking at £36 at least unless I'm working it out wrong. CSM was one of the only releases I had any interest in but if Thousand Sons are going to cost that much, forget it.

Agreed.

Though converting is an option, the Thousand Son's pricing tag is ridiculous, especially if you want a pure Legion army.

Ok so they finecasted Havoks. The one unit I was so looking forward them moving across to plastic get a finecast remake. And the one unit I was fine with them moving to finecast only, the raptors got redone. Sigh.

Well the raptors are actually the best thing to be released and they are a remake. This is a bit of a mixed bag, not the greatest GW release of recent.

Well at least everything else is looking ok enough anyway. Even the zoids arn't as bad as i had feared.

 ceorron wrote:
Ok so they finecasted Havoks. The one unit I was so looking forward them moving across to plastic get a finecast remake. And the one unit I was fine with them moving to finecast only, the raptors got redone. Sigh.

Well the raptors are actually the best thing to be released and they are a remake. This is a bit of a mixed bag, not the greatest GW release of recent.

Well at least everything else is looking ok enough anyway. Even the zoids arn't as bad as i had feared.

Havocs aren't too hard to convert, with some modification, the weapons in the Devastator box can resemble those in the Havoc boxset.

Wait, havocs are finecast? That's just silly.
I mean, longfangs and devs are plastic, why can't havocs be plastic?
Not cool, GW, not cool.
You could convert them, but that either means getting a dev box and making the marines chaosy, or buying a dev box and a CSM box.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wait, havocs are finecast? That's just silly.
I mean, longfangs and devs are plastic, why can't havocs be plastic?
Not cool, GW, not cool.

Cause extra holes and badly molded sections of the model just add the feeling of Nurgle to the force.


In all seriousness, there wasn't, would it be that hard to sculpt a new Las-Cannon, Missile Launcher and Auto-Cannon for the Havocs? It's three heavy weapons, plus the others are on the accessory sprue, it wouldn't take that long! It's only nineresin pieces.

But no, Finecast is the way to go......

I bet just the weapons are finecast in the box, I cant see the torsos .being FC

I can only pray, for the sake of 1k Sons players, that there is going to be a second wave with Plastic Cultists released.

I mean it's getting ridiculous to build some units that used to be one kit, that now require two (if not 3).

 Deathshead420 wrote:
I bet just the weapons are finecast in the box, I cant see the torsos .being FC

And some slightly modified backpacks.

 BrookM wrote:
If mentioned before, please don't hang me, but I'm surprised that they are using BL cover art for this codex..

It is one of my favourite pieces of none Nurgle chaos marine art, but it drives me a little over the edge, to see it recycled as codex cover art. I know it's a petty thing, but it really grinds my gears.

 SickSix wrote:
I can only pray, for the sake of 1k Sons players, that there is going to be a second wave with Plastic Cultists released.

I mean it's getting ridiculous to build some units that used to be one kit, that now require two (if not 3).

Beats playing noise marines when even when we had a boxed kit that didn't really build a squad.

I was actually pretty excited about the Fiend model until i looked at the 360 piture and saw the rear end of it.

The back and and rear legs just look way out of proportion. i realise that this could be expected of daemonic stuf (over sized claws, muscles etc) - but it has kind of ruined the model for me.


Regarding 1k sons packs - they've only just been taken off the website. I'm guessingyou will still be able to get packs of them on EBay or various discount sites.

 rodgers37 wrote:
I really hope no ne buys that battle force. What a rubbish box set, take out 8 Zerkers and I think 5 standerd CSM and add three bikes... And put the price up. Nice.

It's actually 5 euros cheaper than the old one. In terms of content though, old one was better, though bit monotonous.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wait, havocs are finecast? That's just silly.
I mean, longfangs and devs are plastic, why can't havocs be plastic?
Not cool, GW, not cool.
You could convert them, but that either means getting a dev box and making the marines chaosy, or buying a dev box and a CSM box.

Not only those but Khârn and Lucius and everyone was so hoping for new sculpts. Think this comes across as a bit lazy. Not sure with this output there will be a second wave. Infact really doubt it now. If they do think it will be remakes of vehicles maybe??

I'd imagine a Vechicle Upgrade frame again, for Soul Fire Gargoyles and Destroyer Blades and gak like that.

 ceorron wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wait, havocs are finecast? That's just silly.
I mean, longfangs and devs are plastic, why can't havocs be plastic?
Not cool, GW, not cool.
You could convert them, but that either means getting a dev box and making the marines chaosy, or buying a dev box and a CSM box.

Not only those but Khârn and Lucius and everyone was so hoping for new sculpts. Think this comes across as a bit lazy. Not sure with this output there will be a second wave. Infact really doubt it now. If they do think it will be remakes of vehicles maybe??

Their plan is to release models for all units mentioned in the codex first. They only release a limited number of new kits, so obviously the old kits won't get a remake until some time later. Hardly surprising or disappointing at all.

As has been stated before - they are probably gettign the new units released first to avoid the 3rd party Tyrannofex issue all over again.

Once the new stuff is out there they con look at the existign stuff at their leisure since there's no chance of another company making the model first/

its a shame i already have a huge FW Nurgle army already, otherwise i would sell off all of my CSM and buy the FW preheresy stuff. Infinitely more awesome.

also just saw the collectors edition codex... sold out already.. $83 is such a waste for a codex.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Extreaminatus wrote:
So happy I have a metric butt-ton of Noise Marines now.

What's so good about getting your range halved on the move and not being able to assault?

If your planning to assault, don't take sonic weapons (cept doom siren and blastmaster) Problem solved.

Why would you want to assault anyways, you'd do some damage beforehand with overwatch, D3 hits with doom siren, and an extra A2 from the blastmaster.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I can tell so many people here don't play Fantasy; the Codex price is the normal price for GW hardbacks.

Orcs and Goblins Army Book is $54.50 Cdn at 112 pages. The new Chaos Codex is $60 Cdn and is 104 pages. That's a 10% increase plus a page count reduction.

Just thought of something very horrible that GW could do. What if in the new codex they didn't have anything on the Hellbrute and Cultists.

This would be a very trollish move for them I think. What do you guys think people would do?

Could you just use the stats from the DV boxset?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Extreaminatus wrote:
So happy I have a metric butt-ton of Noise Marines now.

What's so good about getting your range halved on the move and not being able to assault?

If your planning to assault, don't take sonic weapons (cept doom siren and blastmaster) Problem solved.

Why would you want to assault anyways, you'd do some damage beforehand with overwatch, D3 hits with doom siren, and an extra A2 from the blastmaster.

Didn't one of the rumours/leaks say that Sonic Weapon deny defensive fire? - i read that as meaning if you fired with sonic weapons that squad couldn't overwatch - thus making charging a very positive option.

 Chaos Santa wrote:
Just thought of something very horrible that GW could do. What if in the new codex they didn't have anything on the Hellbrute and Cultists.

This would be a very trollish move for them I think. What do you guys think people would do?

Could you just use the stats from the DV boxset?

They do. In the white dwarf, one of the pictures has a rule for Crazed. It says Helbrute in their.

whoadirty wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I can tell so many people here don't play Fantasy; the Codex price is the normal price for GW hardbacks.

Orcs and Goblins Army Book is $54.50 Cdn at 112 pages. The new Chaos Codex is $60 Cdn and is 104 pages. That's a 10% increase plus a page count reduction.

You are talking about the very first hardback book that was 2yrs ago, not a fair comparison. The Empire book, the most recent, was the same price as the CSM one.

 Chaos Santa wrote:
Just thought of something very horrible that GW could do. What if in the new codex they didn't have anything on the Hellbrute and Cultists.

This would be a very trollish move for them I think. What do you guys think people would do?

Could you just use the stats from the DV boxset?

And why would they do that? That would be stupid and they are far from it.

Anyway, both units are in the book.

 Praxiss wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Extreaminatus wrote:
So happy I have a metric butt-ton of Noise Marines now.

What's so good about getting your range halved on the move and not being able to assault?

If your planning to assault, don't take sonic weapons (cept doom siren and blastmaster) Problem solved.

Why would you want to assault anyways, you'd do some damage beforehand with overwatch, D3 hits with doom siren, and an extra A2 from the blastmaster.

Didn't one of the rumours/leaks say that Sonic Weapon deny defensive fire? - i read that as meaning if you fired with sonic weapons that squad couldn't overwatch - thus making charging a very positive option.

Thats what Dirge Casters do now

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

whoadirty wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I can tell so many people here don't play Fantasy; the Codex price is the normal price for GW hardbacks.

Orcs and Goblins Army Book is $54.50 Cdn at 112 pages. The new Chaos Codex is $60 Cdn and is 104 pages. That's a 10% increase plus a page count reduction.

You are talking about the very first hardback book that was 2yrs ago, not a fair comparison. The Empire book, the most recent, was the same price as the CSM one.

Maybe where you are, but not here. Here, the Empire book is $45.50, $4.50 less than the Chaos book.

Well the Canadian site is showing that the LE codex is sold out already, can't say I'm surprised.

Now I feel stupid. I just got back into the game on a whim, and bought the current CSM codex. That's some money down the crapper. However, the way the new gen of CSM is shaping up, I think I can get over that.

Ksons pack is messed up.

1 Sorceror
6 bodies with tabards.
2 tabards
2 Bolters
4 arms
8 heads
6 shoulder pads

Thats 29 parts right? 0_o

This 31-piece pack contains

Think they missed 2 shoulder pads from the list.
Used to get 6 tabard bodies and 2 normal tabards, then enough heads and pads for 1 each.
Then stuff like bolters and arms to mix about.




Noise marines dont even get pads with the upgrade kit.

Can either buy 1 kit to upgrade 3 models (1 of each type of weapon) or a kit with 6 sonic weapons.


Night lords - Fair enough, 10 heads, 10 pads and a champs sword.

Iron warriors - 5 chests, 5 heads, melta and a lascannon.
So you need 2 of those per box of marines.
Total of £41 for a 10 man unit. (another £5 if you want IW pads!)


Why cant they just release a kit that has enough parts to arm a unit, rather than parts of a unit?
Not like they are limited to fitting it on a sprue anymore as they had to re-make moulds for finecast.


Saying that, still better than the iron hands pack.
All that contains is "23 componants"
Which helps nothing.

Minx wrote:

 ceorron wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wait, havocs are finecast? That's just silly.
I mean, longfangs and devs are plastic, why can't havocs be plastic?
Not cool, GW, not cool.
You could convert them, but that either means getting a dev box and making the marines chaosy, or buying a dev box and a CSM box.

Not only those but Khârn and Lucius and everyone was so hoping for new sculpts. Think this comes across as a bit lazy. Not sure with this output there will be a second wave. Infact really doubt it now. If they do think it will be remakes of vehicles maybe??

Their plan is to release models for all units mentioned in the codex first. They only release a limited number of new kits, so obviously the old kits won't get a remake until some time later. Hardly surprising or disappointing at all.

If I understand correctly, it costs nothing fpr GW to switch a metal model to Finecast, since they use the same molds. That means they lose nothing by Finecasting these older models, even if there is a new model for the same thing right around the corner. The only one that confuses me is Obliterators/Mutilators. How could they not have been a dual-option plastic set?

The regular Raptors look a million times better than the Warp Talons IMO. I definitely do want those

The Warpsmith looks very good too, but I weep when I think about all that detailed parts and it being Fc...

there is supposed to be new sculpts for these models they have just released the old ones for there classic line and to make do till new ones or so i have been told

So I went to my FLGS to make my Chaos Codex preorder. The well known friendly face behind the counter asked me if I wanted the Limited or the regular codex. Going for the regular codex, I prepared to pay for it. I was told a price (380SEK) but shook my head. "No, not the Limited edition. I just want a regular codex" I said. "Well it is the regular, the limited codex is 600(SEK)."

I left the store shortly after, thinking about all those years I defended how GW set their prices. But I just couldn't accept that a regular codex would suffer a 52% price increase. Yes, yes. I know that it is hardback. No, I didn't know that this is what fantasy players have been paying for their armybooks. (I never cared much for fantasy). I've could have accepted an extra 10-20% price increase due to the higher production costs. But 52%? Seriously?

Me not buying this codex wont make any difference, as the fantasy players already told GW that they are OK with this pricing (by buying the product). And I just cant defend GW anymore. The figures, fine! There they have multi-million productions centers with all the delicate machine-spirits and mechanicum hardware you can buy for money. But why did the books get so expensive? Why? Have they invested in their own printing press or something?

It's not simply that it is "softcover to hardback".

It's gone from softcover with black and white art to hardcover with full color art throughout.

 Exergy wrote:
MOST non Word Bearer chapalins were killed, not all. So i think multiple armies should be able to take them.

Yeah, not all the chaplains were killed. But apparently ALL the Thousand Sons terminators were.

 winterman wrote:

 JOHIRA wrote:
Wow.

Looking at those pics, I can only say that Chaos has gotten very, very silly. I mean, to be fair, it was always silly. But now it's just... lol.

Unless they re-release doomrider in finecast chaos will never be as AWESOME as it once was.

Fixed it.

Also, does anyone know of an appropriate model of a young boy that I could mount on the back of the heldrake? Then he can perform vector strikes on those bullies who chased him into the bookstore.

I can't help but compare two books I'd quite like -- the new CSM codex, and the new Infinity rulebook -- and decide that, though I was planning to wait for the latter, I'd rather have it. Same kind of price, full colour hardback, but twice as many pages, and a free mini? Much better deal.

Not sure yet whether this means that my never completed CSM army, and half my DV kit, is going on eBay, or if I'll pick up a 2nd hand CSM codex in a few months. More Infinity in the meantime though.

As for the minis, I feel much the same as most other dakkaites, I think. The CC oblits look rubbish -- not just the faces, but the poses, which are probably the least dynamic of any giant close-combat killing machine mini I've seen in years. Raptors / Warp Talons look good (I don't mind all the extra bling). Most of the rest of this stuff though looks far worse than the nearest FW equivalents.

my intuition tells me most people will still buy the dex for £30 or equivalent. It is a lot of money but you probably get 5 years use out of it. And if you play 40k a lot (like me!) it is worth it.

This whole release is looking fethed up now with the massive price increase and bad conversion kits.

Many jimmies are rustled.

 troy_tempest wrote:
my intuition tells me most people will still buy the dex for £30 or equivalent. It is a lot of money but you probably get 5 years use out of it. And if you play 40k a lot (like me!) it is worth it.

Most people who play the army, yes. But I think they lost everyone who buys all the Codexes just to have and read.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 troy_tempest wrote:
my intuition tells me most people will still buy the dex for £30 or equivalent. It is a lot of money but you probably get 5 years use out of it. And if you play 40k a lot (like me!) it is worth it.

Most people who play the army, yes. But I think they lost everyone who buys all the Codexes just to have and read.

Not to mention driving even more people to pirated pdf copies of the codex.

 Amaya wrote:
This whole release is looking fethed up now with the massive price increase and bad conversion kits.

Many jimmies are rustled.

Spoiler:

Indeed.


I'm planning on buying the codex once it's released. I'm not going to pre-order it until I know points costs for everything so I can make an actual judgment. But just from the special rules section, it's like Phil Kelly read my mind. D66 Chaos rewards (boon) table, badass rewards of the gods, and really cool abilities for the Helbrute, Possessed, and Chaos Spawn. Oh and you can't forget the cultist swarms! For those reasons alone I am excited for the codex.

The new models don't bother me precisely because I am never going to use them. If I end up liking their statline, I will make a suitable conversion. For example, for the Forgefiend/Mauler I will buy the Forgeworld Khorne Blood Slaugherers. They look way cooler and really aren't that more expensive. Same for the Dragon->Hell Talon.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's not simply that it is "softcover to hardback".

It's gone from softcover with black and white art to hardcover with full color art throughout.

Don't bother. Nobody is allowed to have a rational reaction to GW releases("the price increase is larger than it had to be, which is annoying, but considering the changes in format much of it is justifiable" for example), it's either "HURR DINOBOTS DURR ZOIDS ZOMG FINECOST LOL" or "Nobody can complain about anything ever because GW is awesome and because of this example I'm giving you which has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand!".

As to the models; the 360's have enhanced my appreciation for the 'fiends, reinforced my apathy towards the Warpsmith(although on closer inspection I do rather like the head, that may see use in my Iron Hands), my dislike for the Apostle, and my conviction that the Raptors kit will be a fantastic source of bitz for people who want their regular CSM to match the Dark Vengeance aesthetic. I'm actually a bit disappointed the 'fiends are such big kits, my wee warband side project probably won't have enough points to fit one in.

Look on the bright side Kharn is now cheaper.

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:
Look on the bright side Kharn is now cheaper.

Are his costs posted? Also, anyword on his axe still having to strike last?

buddha wrote:

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:
Look on the bright side Kharn is now cheaper.

Are his costs posted? Also, anyword on his axe still having to strike last?

Sorry, I meant money wise.

The Fiends have me torn. Rules wise at least. The Mauler has a 12 in move (still don't get how a talos doesn't) fleet and ignores terrain. Then it only has a couple attacks BUT has two fists, HoW hit, and magma cutters which will add up to two more hits at AP1 thats 4A on the charge plus 1S6 HoW and 1-2 S8 AP1.... Not bad when coupled with demon and IWND. BUT then it only has 3HP which means some armies will dismantle the thing stupid fast. It will be funny seeing GK run from it, but then the Fiend running from DE wyches

Cost will be the decision maker on this one. Really want some points costs.

£30 for the codex...

My heart sank this day...

...

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Extreaminatus wrote:
So happy I have a metric butt-ton of Noise Marines now.

What's so good about getting your range halved on the move and not being able to assault?

If your planning to assault, don't take sonic weapons (cept doom siren and blastmaster) Problem solved.

Why would you want to assault anyways, you'd do some damage beforehand with overwatch, D3 hits with doom siren, and an extra A2 from the blastmaster.

Noise Marines are best when made in two types of units. Super shooty in which case you add in all sonic blasters and/or blastmasters that you can. You just hang out and shoot stuff. The second build has only a doom siren and is designed for HTH to take advantage of the I5.

I just hope its possible to make these two types of units.

Overall the Sonic weapons are better than their previous 3.5 counter parts (I totally abandoned my EC during the 4th ed codex). Where blastmasters were 36" S5 AP5 assault 2 pinning or S8 AP4 heavy 1 blast. The Doom siren was S4 AP 3 flamer. Where they aren't better is the sonic blaster. Which was 24" S4 AP5 assault 2/heavy 3. I can understand that they want to use new rules, but I don't see Salvo as all that great when you can just give weapons two profiles.

Prices are on the website. Dragon is 75 and Mauler thing is 66.

 Praxiss wrote:
EEEP!!! Didn't realsie how much Forge World prices have gone up (it's beena while).

I got my Hellblade a few years ago and it was £30. Now they're £52!?!?!?!?!

bang goes my though of fielding a squadron of them.

It must have been MANY years ago as I bought mine £48 and that was 2 years ago.

I just went to the GW website, saw the crazy prices that they are charging for the new stuff and codex, if this is the future of the game, I am converting to other game systems and saying g/bye to GW. 74bucks for the chaos flyer(others are 50bucks) that forgefiend as high as 66bucks??? I am already turned off of other price increases, and the hardcover codex at 50bucks is just plain nuts I have several armies to update for 6th ed, and at 75bucks for the rulebook I am already slow at getting it, now I would have to pay nearly 300hundred for just the rules updates when the new codex comes out for SM/Orks/Tau/IG and when the time comes,,,Necrons for 6th ed?

Necrons kits already were jacked up high slowing me down, GW is digging a financial grave with this price nuttiness.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
MOST non Word Bearer chapalins were killed, not all. So i think multiple armies should be able to take them.

Yeah, not all the chaplains were killed. But apparently ALL the Thousand Sons terminators were.

 winterman wrote:

 JOHIRA wrote:
Wow.

Looking at those pics, I can only say that Chaos has gotten very, very silly. I mean, to be fair, it was always silly. But now it's just... lol.

Unless they re-release doomrider in finecast chaos will never be as AWESOME as it once was.

Fixed it.

Also, does anyone know of an appropriate model of a young boy that I could mount on the back of the heldrake? Then he can perform vector strikes on those bullies who chased him into the bookstore.

Hasslefree have a lot of civvie and children style sculpts, maybe they have what you seek

Heh, anyone notice the failed photoshop at fixing the FineCast ™ Lord Lightning Claws?

Preview Pic:




Enlarged pic:




Someone forgot to add a layer back

Excuse the messy photoshop, but when I looked at the dragon I couldn't help but think it wasn't finished. \

Being a nurgle player, I think I could make that work.. hmm

Wow that is ugly. Still like the fiends though.

Personally, I'm totally willing to pay 50 USD for a Codex as long as that increased price comes with a commensurate increase in quality. Thus far, it looks like it will-- hardback and full-color is a big upgrade over the old softback books, which have an unfortunate tendency to get ripped up with frequent use.

I wonder whether there will be a cultist HQ to allow pure cultist armies without any Space Marines.

 Crimson wrote:
I wonder whether there will be a cultist HQ to allow pure cultist armies without any Space Marines.

Wouldn't that just be IG?

But 50USD for a book made in china that will fall apart more messily due to the hardback? I saw the need to improve the binding on my SM codex, and I paid 7bucks at Kinko's to spiral bind and put a blue back and clear front cover, so yeah, maybe my ultimate cost for it was 40buckjs, but it has lasted me all this time since, and with a lot of work done with it. The image says "CRAAAAAACK" pages fall to the floor, now I have to go and rebind it, so nearly 60bucks for the codex.......That is one of my issues with a hardbound, unless it is made of sterner stuff

nothing wrong with them

 shasolenzabi wrote:
But 50USD for a book made in china that will fall apart more messily due to the hardback? I saw the need to improve the binding on my SM codex, and I paid 7bucks at Kinko's to spiral bind and put a blue back and clear front cover, so yeah, maybe my ultimate cost for it was 40buckjs, but it has lasted me all this time since, and with a lot of work done with it. The image says "CRAAAAAACK" pages fall to the floor, now I have to go and rebind it, so nearly 60bucks for the codex.......That is one of my issues with a hardbound, unless it is made of sterner stuff

They have been doing hard cover for a while in Fantasy, and I have to honestly say that I have not heard any reports of crappy binding and army books falling apart.

so...is the codex as good as their old one (the great 3.5 ed one)

 Swara wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I wonder whether there will be a cultist HQ to allow pure cultist armies without any Space Marines.

Wouldn't that just be IG?

No. I was mainly thinking an allied force of cultists and daemons. I'm sure cultists alone would just suck.

I've come to grips with the supposed point value of the Plague Marines, but I really need to see the army list entry before I jump ship. I need to know if they still have FnP, what their weapon options are, and specifically what it will take to make them troops. As it stands now ALL of my troops are PMs. It looks like oblits are still viable as a heavy choice.
What happened to Khorne and Tzeentch being opposed to each other?

 Crimson wrote:
I wonder whether there will be a cultist HQ to allow pure cultist armies without any Space Marines.

If the new white dwarf is anything to go by then the cultist hq is the dark apostle

Raptors will be a bits buy. It'll give me some lightning claws nd plenty of bits for chosen that jump packs will be sold back to Warstore or Bits Barn the lightning emblems are a shave job. Illbuy the plastic champion because I want to see this trend continue. I don't care how powerfully the dinosaurs are no money goes to them. At the end of the day that's the language G.W. $£¥..... they feel it when you don't buy their product. I'm just wondering what veteran. G.W. employees signed off on the dinosaurs. So this went before. J.Goodwin and. He said good idea?

 Bloodhorror wrote:
I'd imagine a Vechicle Upgrade frame again, for Soul Fire Gargoyles and Destroyer Blades and gak like that.

Good point, GW may well have a new Chaos vehicle upgrade sprue in the works - the old one is rather out of date, especially for the new codex options.

 Clang wrote:

 Bloodhorror wrote:
I'd imagine a Vechicle Upgrade frame again, for Soul Fire Gargoyles and Destroyer Blades and gak like that.

Good point, GW may well have a new Chaos vehicle upgrade sprue in the works - the old one is rather out of date, especially for the new codex options.

I'd say that both items already exist on the vehicle upgrade sprue. Little Gargoyle Heads, and those semi-dozerblades made of spikes.

 Sharkvictim wrote:
I've come to grips with the supposed point value of the Plague Marines, but I really need to see the army list entry before I jump ship. I need to know if they still have FnP, what their weapon options are, and specifically what it will take to make them troops. As it stands now ALL of my troops are PMs. It looks like oblits are still viable as a heavy choice.
What happened to Khorne and Tzeentch being opposed to each other?

It as always Slaneesh that Khorne opposed. Sure sorcerers are despised by Khorne, but he hates all sorceres be they Nurgle, Slaneesh, Tzeentch, non chaos exc. What it really comes down to is Slaneesh followers tend to care more about their hedonism than mastering their martial abilities, and Khorne can't stand that.

Don't worry about a PM army. GW trends from previous codexes that GW seems to be reverting to indicate a Nurgle HQ would turn PM into troops. It's also really doubtful they would mess with the FNP of PM. The slaneesh FNP is for an icon going on already marked troops. Nurgle didn't get the FNP icon because PM already have FNP, so why would PM need it? Sure havoks and nurgle bikers could use it, but maybe GW didn't want T6 FNP bikers.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Sharkvictim wrote:
I've come to grips with the supposed point value of the Plague Marines, but I really need to see the army list entry before I jump ship. I need to know if they still have FnP, what their weapon options are, and specifically what it will take to make them troops. As it stands now ALL of my troops are PMs. It looks like oblits are still viable as a heavy choice.
What happened to Khorne and Tzeentch being opposed to each other?

It as always Slaneesh that Khorne opposed. Sure sorcerers are despised by Khorne, but he hates all sorceres be they Nurgle, Slaneesh, Tzeentch, non chaos exc. What it really comes down to is Slaneesh followers tend to care more about their hedonism than mastering their martial abilities, and Khorne can't stand that.

Don't worry about a PM army. GW trends from previous codexes that GW seems to be reverting to indicate a Nurgle HQ would turn PM into troops. It's also really doubtful they would mess with the FNP of PM. The slaneesh FNP is for an icon going on already marked troops. Nurgle didn't get the FNP icon because PM already have FNP, so why would PM need it? Sure havoks and nurgle bikers could use it, but maybe GW didn't want T6 FNP bikers.

khorne's just jealous of their boobs

Irdiumstern wrote:

 Clang wrote:

 Bloodhorror wrote:
I'd imagine a Vechicle Upgrade frame again, for Soul Fire Gargoyles and Destroyer Blades and gak like that.

Good point, GW may well have a new Chaos vehicle upgrade sprue in the works - the old one is rather out of date, especially for the new codex options.

I'd say that both items already exist on the vehicle upgrade sprue. Little Gargoyle Heads, and those semi-dozerblades made of spikes.

You may be right. Just redoing the vehicle upgrade sprue would have been an easy way for GW to create 'new' chaos vehicle kits, but I'm probably too optimiistic...

 Sharkvictim wrote:
I've come to grips with the supposed point value of the Plague Marines, but I really need to see the army list entry before I jump ship. I need to know if they still have FnP, what their weapon options are, and specifically what it will take to make them troops. As it stands now ALL of my troops are PMs. It looks like oblits are still viable as a heavy choice.
What happened to Khorne and Tzeentch being opposed to each other?

After reading through the new "This Month in the Design Studio" in the new White Dwarf, Phil Kelly stated that original Traitor Legion builds are possible in the new codex. They will be 24 points per model, have FNP and you need a lord with Mark of Nurgle to unlock them as troops. Anything posted to the contrary of this is people misinterpreting the Icon that gives FNP somehow negating FNP rules for plagumarines, as if it is not possible for 2 units in a codex to have access to a special rule. There is nothing in the current rumors indicating plaguemarines will change.

It used to be Khorne opposed to Tzeentch and Slaanesh opposed to Nurgle back in the Realm of Chaos days.

I don't like the fact that they changed it round, just doesn't feel right.

I'm not terribly familiar with how Chaos has been in previous editions. What is a difference between, say, a Plague Marine and a normal Chaos Marine with a Mark of Nurgle anyway?

 GiraffeX wrote:
It used to be Khorne opposed to Tzeentch and Slaanesh opposed to Nurgle back in the Realm of Chaos days.

I don't like the fact that they changed it round, just doesn't feel right.

At least its back in some form. The idea that all the gods got along and had a rootin tootin hoedown on the weekends like the last codex presented was by far worse.

sorry but your wrong, it was always Khorne v Slaanesh (slaves to darkness) and Nurgle v Tzeentch (lost and the damned)....I owned both

I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, and called a hater or suchlike. And I know plenty of other people have expressed disappointment over this release, but I just have to say that this is the first time I've ever felt so let down by a GW miniatures release for one of my favourite armies. I collect Necrons, Blood Angels, Chaos, Eldar and Dark Eldar. I came on board during 3rd edition, and was absent for a lot of 4th (due to lack of people to play against). The recent Necron and Dark Eldar miniatures have been mostly excellent and there are still a lot of models from those waves that I want to collect. I wasn't around for 4th edition Chaos release, but when I returned I was impressed by the miniatures but shocked by the codex. This time around, the codex looks ok (but not great) but IMO the miniatures look ridiculous and are mostly pointless additons to the range.. The best ones are the Raptors, but they don't look as good as the old Raptors, so they fail on that count. The CC Oblits and Dark Apostle are terrible cartoonish sculpts (like a lot of recent Finecast sculpts) and the big monsters don't fit the aesthetic at all. The dragon just doesn't fit conceptually, dragons are not what I associate with CSM. And they really do look like childs toys. They're not quite dinoriders or zoids, like some have said, but they're certainly a big step in that direction compared to previous daemon engines. They look silly rather than sinister and they don't fit the model range. For the first time I feel like I'm in a hobby I'm a bit too old for.
Why haven't they resculpted anything except Raptors? Of all the Chaos miniatures that needed a new sculpt, this was not one of them. The one glimmer of greatnes sin this release is dark Vengeance. All the Chaos Minis in that are superb and I will definitely be picking up a set. If only they'd redone the rest of the range with this style in mind.

I can't help but laugh everytime someone bring up OMG color books as justification for a massive price hike, as if anyone is gonna care at all their book it colored 6 months after they bought it

I hate the dragon and would much rather use the FW Chaos Fighters. My biggest issue though is going from $42 for 1k Sons to $38+$21 for 1K Sons. Sixty bucks for one squad?

I honestly don't see myself picking up any thing from this release save for the warp talons and the codex. I already have a huge Nurgle force, and I'm just trying to round out my smaller Slaanesh and Khorne ally armies.

Hopefully in the next wave we see a new Abaddon sculpt, as I really would like to field him.

Denilsta wrote:
sorry but your wrong, it was always Khorne v Slaanesh (slaves to darkness) and Nurgle v Tzeentch (lost and the damned)....I owned both

Denilsta is correct - I too had both books and the rivalries were KvS and NvT.

I'm finding it amusing how people are touting the doom and gloom of the chaos release without knowing anything about it.

Ok, so the new models don't inspire you, so what? I have 2500 points of Emperors Children that I really know nothing about.

I've got 2 preditors - Some interesting upgrades have been mentioned but I have no idea on point costs.

I have a DP - No idea if they are even in the dex or what sort of add on weapons are available.

I have a dread - I know nothing if its even usable or if I have to use it as a hellbrute.

Now there are the 36 noise marines in HTH or shooty configuration. No real idea of how those models will be used or what their real points are going to be.

I've got 6 bikers where in the old 3.5 codex came out to about 50 points each after upgrades. What are the new bikers going to look like, what upgrades can they take?

How can you fully dismiss something when you know nothing about it? Rumors rarely paint the full picture and the White Dwarf stuff doesn't have point costs.

Now, if your going to gripe about cost. Well that's legitimate and I'll not fault anyone for complaining about that. I think everything is about 20% over inflated in cost and truthfully there is no reason for it to be so.

SO...is Doomrider back?

 Jayden63 wrote:
I have a DP - No idea if they are even in the dex or what sort of add on weapons are available.

We know they're in the dex and that marks give them extra special stuff, including hating the opposing god
It's in WD and you need good eyes/good magnifying glass/good scanner to read them.
Likely I'm in the 'good eyes' department, as was everyone else in the store.
We + the GW employees managed to figure out a few rules

evilsponge wrote:
I can't help but laugh everytime someone bring up OMG color books as justification for a massive price hike, as if anyone is gonna care at all their book it colored 6 months after they bought it

But it also has a fold-out reference sheet.

Fold-out I tell you!

We also know that Daemon princes are in because they're listed on the new product releases on the first page of this thread, and in WD.

Seriously, guys, if you're going to complain about the new releases, at least bother to read the information and rumors of the releases in the thread.

Well my helldrake is now a semi functional model, I hope my wife and I can finish it by the time the book comes out.

I wasn't positive towards the fiends, nor dragon, before I saw this video on Faet:
http://natfka.blogspot.se/2012/09/a-very-close-look-at-new-csm-models.html?m=1

Still not sure about the dragon, though it shouldn't ber too hard to replace the head with a cockpit.
But looking at the fiends... Yeah, if Deathguard doesn't live up to my hopes, the I'm shelving 'em and starting Iron Warriors...

//Calle

Chaos dred is gone ?! didn't notice it before ...new model coming or chaos no longer use dreds ?

 Claimh_Solais wrote:
Chaos dred is gone ?! dident notic it before ...new model coming or chaos no longer use dreds ?

Dreads have been replaced with the hellbrute, apparently.
Which is basically just a crazy ass dread, except not a knock off of the imperial variant.

makes more sense if its a dred but whatever

I just wanna know what slaanesh gets in all this?!

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
makes more sense if its a dred but whatever

I just wanna know what slaanesh gets in all this?!

Edited for content MT11

No more Havoc launchers apparently

 Slinky wrote:

Denilsta wrote:
sorry but your wrong, it was always Khorne v Slaanesh (slaves to darkness) and Nurgle v Tzeentch (lost and the damned)....I owned both

Denilsta is correct - I too had both books and the rivalries were KvS and NvT.

I still have them and its Slaanesh hates Khorne and vice versa - same with Tzeentch and Nurgle - thats why they were devided into the two books

ROC Slaves to Darkness covers Khorne and Slaanesh and

ROC The Lost and the Damned does Tzeentch and Nurgle.

I for one am happier the more the old hatreds are represented.

I love the new Demon Engines - two ground pounders look very War Machine and the flyer looks really menacing - cool
I like the Dark Apostle but not the Warsmith - too busy for me

 Sunoccard wrote:
No more Havoc launchers apparently

...

yay...

Well, what I'm I going to do with my METAL BAWKSES?

I think this Chaos release will become a byword for disappointing and ill conceived releases.

I was very excited after seeing DV and placed a preorder straight away, not because I needed the models but they were so nice I didn't want to miss out. I will not be buying anything from this first release. The fiends are awful, they do look like dinobots, with the forgefiend being the ugly ginger child of the release. New raptors are ok but imo worse than the old ones [glad I bought them in metal when I did]. Mutilators are laughable, they look like a child made them out of playdo, didn't think it was possible to look any worse than the shooty Obliterators but they managed it. Dragon is ok as a mini on its own but for me doesn't fit the aesthetic at all. Dark apostle and Warpsmith are both too busy.

I really want to like these, and keep returning to the pictures in an attempt to convince myself they're worth the money, but they're not.

Forge World here I come, two Decimators and a Hell Blade please.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

Forge World here I come, two Decimators and a Hell Blade please.

It's a conspiracy I tell ya!

 Claimh_Solais wrote:
Chaos dred is gone ?! didn't notice it before ...new model coming or chaos no longer use dreds ?

Been replacing with Helbrute, which is fine.

However right now the only Helbrutes available are via Dark Vengeance and even that is just a Multi-Melta. Which is not fine. Fortunately I imagine the Codex options are a bit more broad then that....

 Harriticus wrote:

 Claimh_Solais wrote:
Chaos dred is gone ?! didn't notice it before ...new model coming or chaos no longer use dreds ?

Been replacing with Helbrute, which is fine.

However right now the only Helbrutes available are via Dark Vengeance and even that is just a Multi-Melta. Which is not fine. Fortunately I imagine the Codex options are a bit more broad then that....

We hope

On the French Warhammer forums a guy did a nice photowork.



I think its a good way to do it.

Yes, it is.

One of they guys at my GW store yesterday said that if he did make a csm army (he is seriously considering it, but moneez) he'd go alpha legion, manage to find 2 more heldrake heads and make a hydradrake

It might just be me, but it feels like we will probably get a 2nd wave of chaos latter.

I wouldn't be surprised is after the silliness of companies like Chapter House jumping up to fill voids in a Miniature ranges, Games workshop wants to make sure their are models available for all the units from the start. Releases to replaceing existing miniatures, and add alternatives to things only available threw the starter set can be held off until a 2nd wave.

Just speculation anyway.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
On the French Warhammer forums a guy did a nice photowork.



I think its a good way to do it.

Better but the wings don't look right. The tail looks better, but at the price, it should look right straight from he box.

Lockark wrote:
It might just be me, but it feels like we will probably get a 2nd wave of chaos latter.

I wouldn't be surprised is after the silliness of companies like Chapter House jumping up to fill voids in a Miniature ranges, Games workshop wants to make sure their are models available for all the units from the start. Releases to replaceing existing miniatures, and add alternatives to things only available threw the starter set can be held off until a 2nd wave.

Just speculation anyway.

Maybe companies like chapterhouse, can offer a better representation, or an upgrade kit.

Lockark wrote:
It might just be me, but it feels like we will probably get a 2nd wave of chaos latter.

I wouldn't be surprised is after the silliness of companies like Chapter House jumping up to fill voids in a Miniature ranges, Games workshop wants to make sure their are models available for all the units from the start. Releases to replaceing existing miniatures, and add alternatives to things only available threw the starter set can be held off until a 2nd wave.

Just speculation anyway.

I expect the second wave of chaos to go up for pre-order on Oct 6, the day the current stuff comes out. (much like DE did). This way they fill out their options, and have all their bases covered. They can then later go back and release plastic havocs/cult troops or what have you.

 loki old fart wrote:

Lockark wrote:
It might just be me, but it feels like we will probably get a 2nd wave of chaos latter.

I wouldn't be surprised is after the silliness of companies like Chapter House jumping up to fill voids in a Miniature ranges, Games workshop wants to make sure their are models available for all the units from the start. Releases to replaceing existing miniatures, and add alternatives to things only available threw the starter set can be held off until a 2nd wave.

Just speculation anyway.

Maybe companies like chapterhouse, can offer a better representation, or an upgrade kit.

Uh... What? What does that have ANYTHING to do with what I said?

GW got burned from Small Companies releasing their knock offs soon after codex releases, and BEFORE GW could release their own modles.

More or less it's funny that it appears that GW has in fact taken notice of these practices.

 Starfarer wrote:
We also know that Daemon princes are in because they're listed on the new product releases on the first page of this thread, and in WD.

Seriously, guys, if you're going to complain about the new releases, at least bother to read the information and rumors of the releases in the thread.

I read that part, but is it an HQ or Heavy Support choice. Is it its own entry or does a Lord become a DP if you upgrade it sufficiently enough? These are my questions and it greatly opens up what other options an army can take depending on where the FOC they show up.

I rather liked that in 3.5 not all DPs were carbon copies of each other with only a single mark and wings or no wings to differentiate them.

 Starfarer wrote:
We also know that Daemon princes are in because they're listed on the new product releases on the first page of this thread, and in WD.

Seriously, guys, if you're going to complain about the new releases, at least bother to read the information and rumors of the releases in the thread.

Daemon Princes are in and to be honest they're even better. Now they're WS9 BS5 S6 T5 W4 I8 A5, granted this means they're more expensive but the extra 2 points of WS, the extra initiative, and the additional attack are totally worth it in my eyes. Now MEQ hits them on a 5+, even the vaunted Grey Knights! (unless of course they're paladins.) That's really powerful, especially considering challenges.
I have a feeling that FMC Daemon Princes of Tzeentch are gonna be stupidly powerful even if they end up costing around 230 points. Reroll saves of 1, plus you get access to psychic powers. Although the "Gift of Mutation" power is kinda weird for it, can you cast a Gift of Mutation on a Daemon Prince and turn it into a spawn? hahaha
Yeah, as long as Daemon Princes of Tzeentch are Psychic Mastery 2 or higher, they will be fantastic, especially since they'll have access to Biomancy.

Re Hellbrute replacing dreads - I hope & expect that my opponents accept me using my chaos FW dreads rather than having to throw them away.

Re the big deamon engines - I found a spare Jug head today - wonder if it's big enough??

 bubber wrote:
Re Hellbrute replacing dreads - I hope & expect that my opponents accept me using my chaos FW dreads rather than having to throw them away.

Re the big deamon engines - I found a spare Jug head today - wonder if it's big enough??

This won't even be a question. A dreadnaught is just a hellbrute, and the old kit is just a different style. Just like when Eldar switched from lasgun to shuriken catapult on guardians.

They where just weird looking catapults.

 Jayden63 wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
We also know that Daemon princes are in because they're listed on the new product releases on the first page of this thread, and in WD.

Seriously, guys, if you're going to complain about the new releases, at least bother to read the information and rumors of the releases in the thread.

I read that part, but is it an HQ or Heavy Support choice. Is it its own entry or does a Lord become a DP if you upgrade it sufficiently enough? These are my questions and it greatly opens up what other options an army can take depending on where the FOC they show up.

I rather liked that in 3.5 not all DPs were carbon copies of each other with only a single mark and wings or no wings to differentiate them.

P
They are HQ, but don't count towards making cult units troops if marked, like Lords do. Other than that they will be similar in cost to the Codex Daemons version.


@Vladsimpaler - Yeah they seem pretty nasty now. Definitely happy with the improvements, and honestly glad we won't see 2 prince lists for cult armies due to them not changing the FOC when marked. It would be nice if they were above the dangers above spawndom, but the Chaos Gods are fickle.

I plan on doing the following with my helldrake



Just leave the head off and do some wire wrapping. Done.

 GiraffeX wrote:
It used to be Khorne opposed to Tzeentch and Slaanesh opposed to Nurgle back in the Realm of Chaos days.

I don't like the fact that they changed it round, just doesn't feel right.

Well, you couldn't be more wrong. You are 510% wrong on this.

BTW, does anyone know if Havocs can change a autocannon for blastmaster again?

Are noise marines required to buy the sonic blaster?

Do noise marines lose the bolt pistol and close combat weapon?

I still have 28 blastmasters, but only 40 noise marines. I will need to convert some more NM's with SB to use all my blastmasters.

I will be okay with the stupid salvo nerfing if they can still shoot the bolt pistol before assault.

 Starfarer wrote:
They are HQ, but don't count towards making cult units troops if marked, like Lords do. Other than that they will be similar in cost to the Codex Daemons.

Are you certain of this? I mean, have you read this with your own eyes? It would be incredibly stupid if a lowly lord unlocks troops, but a beastly exalted prince can not.

Slave wrote:
Are you certain of this? I mean, have you read this with your own eyes? It would be incredibly stupid if a lowly lord unlocks troops, but a beastly exalted prince can not.

There has to be a reason to take Lords over DPs.

Slave wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
They are HQ, but don't count towards making cult units troops if marked, like Lords do. Other than that they will be similar in cost to the Codex Daemons.

Are you certain of this? I mean, have you read this with your own eyes? It would be incredibly stupid if a lowly lord unlocks troops, but a beastly exalted prince can not.

Yeah, that greatly depletes an cult armies ability to be diverse. If you have to take a lord to get troop cult marines and then use the last HQ option to take a DP. Doesn't leave any room for sorcerers, warpsmiths, or anything else for that matter.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Slave wrote:
Are you certain of this? I mean, have you read this with your own eyes? It would be incredibly stupid if a lowly lord unlocks troops, but a beastly exalted prince can not.

There has to be a reason to take Lords over DPs.

Lots of different reasons. Smaller, better at avoiding shots, fits in a transport, terminator armor, guns, demon weapon, etc, etc...

This is a serious mistake if it is.

I plan on doing the following with my Heldrake:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Slave wrote:
Are you certain of this? I mean, have you read this with your own eyes? It would be incredibly stupid if a lowly lord unlocks troops, but a beastly exalted prince can not.

There has to be a reason to take Lords over DPs.

There's always cost. If a typical DP is 200+pts, and a Lord is 140-160, that's usually enough right there.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Slave wrote:
Are you certain of this? I mean, have you read this with your own eyes? It would be incredibly stupid if a lowly lord unlocks troops, but a beastly exalted prince can not.

There has to be a reason to take Lords over DPs.

There's always cost. If a typical DP is 200+pts, and a Lord is 140-160, that's usually enough right there.

Is it confirmed if you can take DPs as part of the FOC?
I would think that you can't, since any character can now potentially become one.

Has anyone heard or read the rules for vanilla csm troops?

 Harriticus wrote:
I plan on doing the following with my Heldrake:

lol, I like it.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Slave wrote:
Are you certain of this? I mean, have you read this with your own eyes? It would be incredibly stupid if a lowly lord unlocks troops, but a beastly exalted prince can not.

There has to be a reason to take Lords over DPs.

There's always cost. If a typical DP is 200+pts, and a Lord is 140-160, that's usually enough right there.

Is it confirmed if you can take DPs as part of the FOC?
I would think that you can't, since any character can now potentially become one.

I thought so but I could be wrong. There's only a very small chance for other characters to become DP's so otherwise they wouldn't have much use for kits.

Slave wrote:

 bubber wrote:
Re Hellbrute replacing dreads - I hope & expect that my opponents accept me using my chaos FW dreads rather than having to throw them away.

Re the big deamon engines - I found a spare Jug head today - wonder if it's big enough??

This won't even be a question. A dreadnaught is just a hellbrute, and the old kit is just a different style. Just like when Eldar switched from lasgun to shuriken catapult on guardians.

They where just weird looking catapults.

A better example is when they stopped calling the Eldar Wraithlord the Eldar Dreadnought. Given the amount of "count as" that goes around these days anyone giving you trouble is intentionally being dumbass by difficult and messing with you. The Hellbrute is synonymous with Chaos Dreadnought.

 aka_mythos wrote:

Slave wrote:

 bubber wrote:
Re Hellbrute replacing dreads - I hope & expect that my opponents accept me using my chaos FW dreads rather than having to throw them away.

Re the big deamon engines - I found a spare Jug head today - wonder if it's big enough??

This won't even be a question. A dreadnaught is just a hellbrute, and the old kit is just a different style. Just like when Eldar switched from lasgun to shuriken catapult on guardians.

They where just weird looking catapults.

A better example is when they stopped calling the Eldar Wraithlord the Eldar Dreadnought. Given the amount of "count as" that goes around these days anyone giving you trouble is intentionally being dumbass by difficult and messing with you. The Hellbrute is synonymous with Chaos Dreadnought.

In the Helbrute's fluff it notes that some versions are more crazed/mutated than others. So you can have the Helbrute from Dark Vengeance or the old 2nd edition one, it doesn't matter. They're all the same in the end.

Slave wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
They are HQ, but don't count towards making cult units troops if marked, like Lords do. Other than that they will be similar in cost to the Codex Daemons.

Are you certain of this? I mean, have you read this with your own eyes? It would be incredibly stupid if a lowly lord unlocks troops, but a beastly exalted prince can not.

I'm not certain, no, as I haven't read it with my own eyes, but it comes from the same rumor sources that predicted everything we've seen (pre)released this week.

 Jayden63 wrote:


Yeah, that greatly depletes an cult armies ability to be diverse. If you have to take a lord to get troop cult marines and then use the last HQ option to take a DP. Doesn't leave any room for sorcerers, warpsmiths, or anything else for that matter.

Well, there has to be a drawback somewhere. If any other army could take Elites as troops with no drawback, it would be pretty unbalanced. Phil Kelly has a tendency to allow themed build is his codexes, but there is a drawback in doing so.

Wait...only the Lord that unlocks marked units? I thought the rumor was that you had to take a marked HQ, and that it couldn't be a Daemon Prince. If that true that makes it even more restrictive. If you want to take a allied Detachment of CSM led by a DP your stuck with Cultists or stock Chaos Marines. Sure they can still be marked, but they're still not cult units.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Slave wrote:
Are you certain of this? I mean, have you read this with your own eyes? It would be incredibly stupid if a lowly lord unlocks troops, but a beastly exalted prince can not.

There has to be a reason to take Lords over DPs.

There's always cost. If a typical DP is 200+pts, and a Lord is 140-160, that's usually enough right there.

Is it confirmed if you can take DPs as part of the FOC?
I would think that you can't, since any character can now potentially become one.

There is no way they will take the ability to take a prince. There are several kits for it, many of us have one, no way we can't use it.

is it true that Dp lost their power armor save?...

The can still buy it has an option right?,right?...

Well apart of that i'm curious to see Kharne's and Abby's profils....

I wonder how expensive noise marines are and how much their weapons are. Cause now that their weapons ignore cover, I see them being used more often.

after hearing that my Demon Prince won't unlock my massive noise marine force and marines losing the close combat weapon, the wind just got let out of my sails...

Looks like My army goes back on the shelf.

anyone know the rules and options for warpsmiths? i know about the repair/curse rule, but thats about all. what sort of upgrades can they take? do they get access to daemon weapons by any chance? would be awesome to take one as the HQ choice for an iron warriors army with the rumored daemon weapon maul/hammer.

 Sersi wrote:
Wait...only the Lord that unlocks marked units? I thought the rumor was that you had to take a marked HQ, and that it couldn't be a Daemon Prince. If that true that makes it even more restrictive. If you want to take a allied Detachment of CSM led by a DP your stuck with Cultists or stock Chaos Marines. Sure they can still be marked, but they're still not cult units.

That's just what the rumors say. After looking over the rumors again, there is another line that says HQ with a mark unlocks cult units as troops, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Slave wrote:
after hearing that my Demon Prince won't unlock my massive noise marine force and marines losing the close combat weapon, the wind just got let out of my sails...

Looks like My army goes back on the shelf.

I would wait until we actually know the rules for sure before writing off your army., but would it really be the end of the world to take a Lord and DP to field your cult force?

Also, CSMs DID NOT lose their CCWs. Nowhere has that been stated as far as I've seen, and for further confirmation, they are listed as having CCWs in the battle report in White Dwarf, so that misinformation can be confirmed as false.

 VermGho5t wrote:
Has anyone heard or read the rules for vanilla csm troops?

These are the latest rumors that were posted.

Chaos Space Marine
70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.
Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.
Come with bolter/bp/ccw
For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.
Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.

Read the white dwarf at lgs, looks like the dragon gets some flame weapon and is 170 pts

The limited edition Codex already sold out. 1,000 pre-orders in 24 hours.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Slave wrote:
Are you certain of this? I mean, have you read this with your own eyes? It would be incredibly stupid if a lowly lord unlocks troops, but a beastly exalted prince can not.

There has to be a reason to take Lords over DPs.

There's always cost. If a typical DP is 200+pts, and a Lord is 140-160, that's usually enough right there.

Is it confirmed if you can take DPs as part of the FOC?
I would think that you can't, since any character can now potentially become one.

It's still available under HQ on the GW website.

A poster scanned a picture from the Spanish white dwarf. Could have been a bad translation, but no close combat weapon.

Rumor has it deamon princes will continue to be in the CSM dex, they will be more powerful, and upgrades especially flight will be more in line with the deamon dex making them expensive.

It's probably going to be lords and named characters that unlock cult units as troops. After ascending to being a deamon prince they can end up spending a lot of time in the warp and less time managing their former legion on a day to day basis. My bet is Kharne, Typhis, Arihman, Lucius, and regular lords will be the only units that unlock cult units as troops. I think Abby will also be excluded if they allow him to unlock chosen as troops.

 Necrosis wrote:
I wonder how expensive noise marines are and how much their weapons are. Cause now that their weapons ignore cover, I see them being used more often.

Basic Noise Marine: 16 pts

Sonic Blaster: +5 pts
Blastmaster: +25 pts
Doom Siren: +15 pts

Its a pretty big points drop. I now have 160 saved points to play now.

@ sersi where are you getting the NM costs from? i miss an update? nothing on the first page.

 Sersi wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:
I wonder how expensive noise marines are and how much their weapons are. Cause now that their weapons ignore cover, I see them being used more often.

Basic Noise Marine: 16 pts

Sonic Blaster: +5 pts
Blastmaster: +25 pts
Doom Siren: +15 pts

Its a pretty big points drop. I now have 160 saved points to play now.

If this is true, I'm going to be so happy.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Yes, it is.

One of they guys at my GW store yesterday said that if he did make a csm army (he is seriously considering it, but moneez) he'd go alpha legion, manage to find 2 more heldrake heads and make a hydradrake

Makes me think of Mecha-Ghidorah.




Ah, that's it. My plans are to ally in a three-headed Helldrake with a Fateweaver FmC list. It may not be getting re-rolls, but Chaosy things with more than one head would be nice.

gigasnail wrote:
@ sersi where are you getting the NM costs from? i miss an update? nothing on the first page.

Those were from Blood of Kittens rumors. But I see no reason to doubt them they've been pretty solid on everything else.

hey, do the emperors children get combat drugs back?

 Necrosis wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:
I wonder how expensive noise marines are and how much their weapons are. Cause now that their weapons ignore cover, I see them being used more often.

Basic Noise Marine: 16 pts

Sonic Blaster: +5 pts
Blastmaster: +25 pts
Doom Siren: +15 pts

Its a pretty big points drop. I now have 160 saved points to play now.

If this is true, I'm going to be so happy.

I know. I already was planning to use a Sorcerer anyway. But the Slaanesh psy-powers are really nice. Even the Primaris power is useful. Here's hoping that a marked Sorcerer can un-lock noise marines, so I can take one along with a Daemon Prince. Say, when you unlock cults as troops, can they still be taken as elites too?

That would be to confusing. You would have to keep track which one is a troop choice and which one is an elite choice. I'm just going to take a chaos lord with a daemon weapon, maybe with a squad of terminator depends on marks and icons.

 BDJV wrote:

 VermGho5t wrote:
Has anyone heard or read the rules for vanilla csm troops?

These are the latest rumors that were posted.

Chaos Space Marine
70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.
Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.
Come with bolter/bp/ccw
For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.
Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.

That's not terrible, but the loss of 1 LD point wasn't worth only losing 1 point for a model. If Chaos Marines end up being 13 points I'd be a lot happier, or if it was 70 for Aspiring Champion+4 other Marines and then add 15 additional for 13 points per.

However, if Cultists are still 40 for the initial Champion+9 cultists, and then add 20 more for 3 points per cultist (as rumored), I seriously doubt that I'm even going to be using very many Chaos Marines at all!

 Rainbow Dash wrote:
hey, do the emperors children get combat drugs back?

I wouldn't think so. The Hesterical Frenzy psy-power is pretty much the same thing, but better. Noe the whole unit gets the bonuses rather than just champions; and you don't run the risk of getting killed.

Combat Drugs:

re-roll when charging through difficult terrain.
+1 Weapon Skill
+1 Strength
ignore the first unsaved wound.
+1 Attacks

Heretical Frenzy:

+1 Initiative
+1 Strength
+1 Attack

Sure you don't get to choose the ability anymore but their all useful. Although I rather have +1 WS rather that +1 Initiative. Ignoring the first saved wound is replace by the Icon's FNP. It should be really good on cultists.

 Rainbow Dash wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Sharkvictim wrote:
I've come to grips with the supposed point value of the Plague Marines, but I really need to see the army list entry before I jump ship. I need to know if they still have FnP, what their weapon options are, and specifically what it will take to make them troops. As it stands now ALL of my troops are PMs. It looks like oblits are still viable as a heavy choice.
What happened to Khorne and Tzeentch being opposed to each other?

It as always Slaneesh that Khorne opposed. Sure sorcerers are despised by Khorne, but he hates all sorceres be they Nurgle, Slaneesh, Tzeentch, non chaos exc. What it really comes down to is Slaneesh followers tend to care more about their hedonism than mastering their martial abilities, and Khorne can't stand that.

Don't worry about a PM army. GW trends from previous codexes that GW seems to be reverting to indicate a Nurgle HQ would turn PM into troops. It's also really doubtful they would mess with the FNP of PM. The slaneesh FNP is for an icon going on already marked troops. Nurgle didn't get the FNP icon because PM already have FNP, so why would PM need it? Sure havoks and nurgle bikers could use it, but maybe GW didn't want T6 FNP bikers.

khorne's just jealous of their boobs

and wieners... and hoohahs...

From what I can see on the White Dwarf pg. 23, Chosen are 90 points for a Squad of Five and some other thing I can't make out. Lots of options though.

Possessed are 130 Points for Five and some more options.

Chaos Terminators are 95 for 3 plus another thing I can't see clearly.

From the Army list on pg. 63, 20 cultists with 2 flamers are 100 points?

Eh.... seems reasonable.

I emailed Tastytaste asking for him to post some stuff about Ahriman. Maybe that one picture on his site is because of my email! Woo.

I tried to extract what info I could from the Elites entries listed in WD, but iIt's really tough to make out, even under magnification, but I was able to see that Possessed have Fleet, and 2 other special rules I could not make out. They also have a Possessed Champion, so it looks like that means he gets a roll on the Boon chart. Possessed, Terminators and Chosen can take marks and Icons. Mutilators can only take Marks. Couldn't make out anything else.

Are mutilators T5?

They are T4 with 2 wounds and the daemon special rules, among other rules.

 Necrosis wrote:
They are T4 with 2 wounds and the daemon special rules, among other rules.

Do they have Rampage?

 Necrosis wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:
I wonder how expensive noise marines are and how much their weapons are. Cause now that their weapons ignore cover, I see them being used more often.

Basic Noise Marine: 16 pts

Sonic Blaster: +5 pts
Blastmaster: +25 pts
Doom Siren: +15 pts

Its a pretty big points drop. I now have 160 saved points to play now.

If this is true, I'm going to be so happy.

Really? Its 21 pts for a NM with a sonic blaster, which is less worth than in the 5th ed duento the new rapid firing rule.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Really? Its 21 pts for a NM with a sonic blaster, which is less worth than in the 5th ed duento the new rapid firing rule.

You mean the fact that everybody else can move and shoot to maximum range now... or the fact that Noise Marine can't?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Really? Its 21 pts for a NM with a sonic blaster, which is less worth than in the 5th ed duento the new rapid firing rule.

You mean the fact that everybody else can move and shoot to maximum range now... or the fact that Noise Marine can't?

Yes I guess that's what he means. With that fact 21 are not that good. What we probably going to see is squads of 5 with blastmaster and doom siren and nothing more. Inside rhinos. With the new blastmaster you can take out low armor vehicles and MEQ alike and doom siren is a "don't come close" weapon through the fire point.
My opinion is that we will go for quantity over quality in this dex. Mark my words!

 avedominusnox wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Really? Its 21 pts for a NM with a sonic blaster, which is less worth than in the 5th ed duento the new rapid firing rule.

You mean the fact that everybody else can move and shoot to maximum range now... or the fact that Noise Marine can't?

Yes I guess that's what he means. With that fact 21 are not that good. What we probably going to see is squads of 5 with blastmaster and doom siren and nothing more. Inside rhinos. With the new blastmaster you can take out low armor vehicles and MEQ alike and doom siren is a "don't come close" weapon through the fire point.
My opinion is that we will go for quantity over quality in this dex. Mark my words!

Makes thows squads of 6, and you just described my current CSM army in a nutshell.
O____o

Not sure how I feel about salvo on sonic blasters. I really liked their versatility in the old dex, they were good at a pinch in cc [wiped out a few marine squads before actually getting into assault a few times in my day ] They also provided highly mobile [if in a rhino] mid-range fire support.

Salvo effectively ends NMs as an assault unit. It also restricts their mobility, and will probably only see use as objective campers or immobile mid-range fire support. They will be really good at both of these roles though, especially with ignore cover, and if you add in a doom siren they will get to put out a lot of overwatch shots.

Not sure where I'm going to get my assault troops from as there's no way I'm taking any Khorne in my Slaanesh army. Pretty much forces me to take Slaaneshy Daemon allies. Maybe that's what they wanted...

Lou_Cypher wrote:
From what I can see on the White Dwarf pg. 23, Chosen are 90 points for a Squad of Five and some other thing I can't make out. Lots of options though.

Possessed are 130 Points for Five and some more options.

Chaos Terminators are 95 for 3 plus another thing I can't see clearly.

From the Army list on pg. 63, 20 cultists with 2 flamers are 100 points?

Eh.... seems reasonable.

So, what would the points total be for the cultists included with the Dark Vengeance set?

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Not sure where I'm going to get my assault troops from as there's no way I'm taking any Khorne in my Slaanesh army. Pretty much forces me to take Slaaneshy Daemon allies. Maybe that's what they wanted...

That's what they wanted from the start.
This is the way they are moving now.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:
I wonder how expensive noise marines are and how much their weapons are. Cause now that their weapons ignore cover, I see them being used more often.

Basic Noise Marine: 16 pts

Sonic Blaster: +5 pts
Blastmaster: +25 pts
Doom Siren: +15 pts

Its a pretty big points drop. I now have 160 saved points to play now.

If this is true, I'm going to be so happy.

Really? Its 21 pts for a NM with a sonic blaster, which is less worth than in the 5th ed duento the new rapid firing rule.

In 4th ed codex you pay 26pts for a NM with blaster. You could assault with blaster but do you really want to pay 26pts for I5 and maybe a turn or two of shooting? Now you just sit and shoot and if the opponent wants to assault you get overwatch.

I highly look forward for the costs of our fast attack choices.
As for noise marines, I have one unit fully equipped made from citadels noise weapons metal pack and I don't think I ll buy more.
I hate fine cast.

Does anyone know what the fiend with the hades autocannon is like? I.e. weapon stats and such.

Also, is the dragon going to solely be a anti flyer unit or would it be good in a game were the opponent has no flyers? All I know of the flyer is that it has a anti-flyer attack, so any other info on the flyers rules would be much appreciated

Lockark wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:

Lockark wrote:
It might just be me, but it feels like we will probably get a 2nd wave of chaos latter.

I wouldn't be surprised is after the silliness of companies like Chapter House jumping up to fill voids in a Miniature ranges, Games workshop wants to make sure their are models available for all the units from the start. Releases to replaceing existing miniatures, and add alternatives to things only available threw the starter set can be held off until a 2nd wave.

Just speculation anyway.

Maybe companies like chapterhouse, can offer a better representation, or an upgrade kit.

Uh... What? What does that have ANYTHING to do with what I said?

GW got burned from Small Companies releasing their knock offs soon after codex releases, and BEFORE GW could release their own modles.

More or less it's funny that it appears that GW has in fact taken notice of these practices.

If big companies like GW can rush poorly executed kits like these into production, Just to leave no gaps in the model range. Maybe companies like chapterhouse, can produce parts to rectify them.

Questions I would like to see answered...

1) Is there any Force org manipulation, HQ based or otherwise...

2) Slaneeshi marked Havocs(and//or even Dreadnoughts... please please please), can they equip sonic weapons again?

3) Are there any allotments made for the various types of renegade / traitor legions, ie traits, and FoC manip? Or is this just another bland single flavor CSM dex...

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Slinky wrote:

Denilsta wrote:
sorry but your wrong, it was always Khorne v Slaanesh (slaves to darkness) and Nurgle v Tzeentch (lost and the damned)....I owned both

Denilsta is correct - I too had both books and the rivalries were KvS and NvT.

I still have them and its Slaanesh hates Khorne and vice versa - same with Tzeentch and Nurgle - thats why they were devided into the two books

ROC Slaves to Darkness covers Khorne and Slaanesh and

ROC The Lost and the Damned does Tzeentch and Nurgle.

I for one am happier the more the old hatreds are represented.

I had both books as well, looks like I've always had it wrong

Thanks for clearing that up I now need to go away and wipe my memory banks

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Does anyone know what the fiend with the hades autocannon is like? I.e. weapon stats and such.

Also, is the dragon going to solely be a anti flyer unit or would it be good in a game were the opponent has no flyers? All I know of the flyer is that it has a anti-flyer attack, so any other info on the flyers rules would be much appreciated

Apparently, the Hades is 48" range, S8 AP4 Heavy 4, Pinning
the Dragon could come with a hades.

Why are people complaining that Noise Marines can't assault? They are not an assault unit, and 40k is no longer an assault game. They dropped 5pts and gained Ignore Cover and FNP. How is that not good? Just like you do with all shooty Marine units, you get them into their 24" range and start shooting. Even though they don't get to shoot at range on the move, once in range and stationary, the extra shot will resolve each lost round of shooting in 2 turns. So if you have them in range turn 2 then they actually get slightly more shooting than your normal Marine. If you get them in range turn 1, that's a lot more. And then there's the overwatch value of triple shot weapons.

The Forgefiend is WS3 BS3 S6 F12 S12 R12 I3 A2 with two Hades Autocannons for 4 Gnoblars short of a Vendetta.

The Helldrake has a Hades Autocannon and a S7 Vector Strike. Autocannon can be swapped for a S6 AP3 Torrent Template weapon. So in the default configuration it can do it all; jack of all trades master of none, and with the flamer can do anti-infantry spectacularly.

Just to answer some questions.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Why are people complaining that Noise Marines can't assault? They are not an assault unit, and 40k is no longer an assault game. They dropped 5pts and gained Ignore Cover and FNP. How is that not good?

The Forgefiend is WS3 BS3 S6 F12 S12 R12 I3 A2 with two Hades Autocannons for 4 Gnoblars short of a Vendetta.

The Helldrake has a Hades Autocannon and a S7 Vector Strike. Autocannon can be swapped for a S6 AP3 Torrent Template weapon. So in the default configuration it can do it all; jack of all trades master of none, and with the flamer can do anti-infantry spectacularly.

Just to answer some questions.

We don't know yet if cult units are able to get icons. They might just come up with mark.
So no FNP for them! Until we learn something different!
P.S. yes the dragon is jack of trades. Or almost all trades.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 BDJV wrote:

 VermGho5t wrote:
Has anyone heard or read the rules for vanilla csm troops?

These are the latest rumors that were posted.

Chaos Space Marine
70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.
Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.
Come with bolter/bp/ccw
For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.
Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.

That's not terrible, but the loss of 1 LD point wasn't worth only losing 1 point for a model. If Chaos Marines end up being 13 points I'd be a lot happier, or if it was 70 for Aspiring Champion+4 other Marines and then add 15 additional for 13 points per.

However, if Cultists are still 40 for the initial Champion+9 cultists, and then add 20 more for 3 points per cultist (as rumored), I seriously doubt that I'm even going to be using very many Chaos Marines at all!

Do you realise that loyalist marines are 16 points per dude and do not have CCW for an extra attack? 14 for a Chaos Marine is insanely cheap.

Anyone else see that they confirmed the fact that marking a Lord in a certain way gives you access to the related Cult unit as Troops? It's pretty late in the issue:

"After finally finishing the
leader of his Death Guard,
Lord Malek Vos, allowing
him to field Plague
Marines as Troops
choices, Andrew is hard at
work painting 21 more of
these festering warriors.
He’s also painting his
Heldrake with a renewed
fervour following its
success in the battle
report."

 avedominusnox wrote:
I highly look forward for the costs of our fast attack choices.
As for noise marines, I have one unit fully equipped made from citadels noise weapons metal pack and I don't think I ll buy more.
I hate fine cast.

As far as I know sonic weapons are not finecast or resin.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod1710128a

I don't even know if they are metal (although the old ones were). GW only recommends super glue for assembly.

 avedominusnox wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Why are people complaining that Noise Marines can't assault? They are not an assault unit, and 40k is no longer an assault game. They dropped 5pts and gained Ignore Cover and FNP. How is that not good?

The Forgefiend is WS3 BS3 S6 F12 S12 R12 I3 A2 with two Hades Autocannons for 4 Gnoblars short of a Vendetta.

The Helldrake has a Hades Autocannon and a S7 Vector Strike. Autocannon can be swapped for a S6 AP3 Torrent Template weapon. So in the default configuration it can do it all; jack of all trades master of none, and with the flamer can do anti-infantry spectacularly.

Just to answer some questions.

We don't know yet if cult units are able to get icons. They might just come up with mark.
So no FNP for them! Until we learn something different!
P.S. yes the dragon is jack of trades. Or almost all trades.

Current rumours say cult troops get the benefits of both mark and icon in their base form.

Fiend is just AV12? weak.
How many Hull points? it couldn't be 3 as some say, that thing is way beefier than a dreadnought!
And S7 vector strike is not that good in the world of AV12 fliers.

Any idea what Khorne Berserkers do? Any word on the axes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratliker wrote:
Fiend is just AV12? weak.
How many Hull points? it couldn't be 3 as some say, that thing is way beefier than a dreadnought!

Fiends have three hull points. At least Maulerfiend has 'It Will Not Die' special rule. I have no idea what it is, but I hope it does what it says.

 Ratliker wrote:
Fiend is just AV12? weak.
How many Hull points? it couldn't be 3 as some say, that thing is way beefier than a dreadnought!
And S7 vector strike is not that good in the world of AV12 fliers.

AV12 isn't weak by any means; even S8 weapons need to tip the odds to break it on average. It has 3HP. How big it is has no reflection on how many HP it has or what its armour should be. A Dread is covered in armour whereas the Fiends seem to have a lot more fleshy areas. Note they both have a 5+ invul, and It Will Not Die as well.

As for the Vector Strike, along with the Hades it is solid, but not the bane of all flyers it was made out to be 2mths ago. 3 together will wreck some face though.

 Crimson wrote:
Any idea what Khorne Berserkers do? Any word on the axes?

Furious Charge, Rage, Counter Charge, AP4.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Furious Charge, Rage, Counter Charge, AP4.

So the chainaxes give AP4? They don't strike last like power axes, I hope.

"it will not die" rule supposidly gives you a chance to roll and gain back a lost Hull point.

 Crimson wrote:
Any idea what Khorne Berserkers do? Any word on the axes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratliker wrote:
Fiend is just AV12? weak.
How many Hull points? it couldn't be 3 as some say, that thing is way beefier than a dreadnought!

Fiends have three hull points. At least Maulerfiend has 'It Will Not Die' special rule. I have no idea what it is, but I hope it does what it says.

It will not Die! is a special rule in the main rulebook. At the end of friendly turns, roll a D6 for every model that has lost hulpoints, but not been wrecked/destroyed. on a 5+ you gain a hullpoint back. Between that and the 5++ it gets from the Daemon rule, hopefully it can manage to stay alive.

Does anyone know if there are any AA weapons besides just the Heldrake? Don't really fells like dishing out 75$ to get the only AA unit.

You can always get the fortifications for AA. Easy to convert them to Chaos.

 Crimson wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Furious Charge, Rage, Counter Charge, AP4.

So the chainaxes give AP4? They don't strike last like power axes, I hope.

Nope, just AP4, that's it.

 Nicorex wrote:
"it will not die" rule supposidly gives you a chance to roll and gain back a lost Hull point.

Not supposedly, it's in the BRB.

ravenousork25 wrote:
Does anyone know if there are any AA weapons besides just the Heldrake? Don't really fells like dishing out 75$ to get the only AA unit.

Havoks can get Flakk Missiles, the problem is, some rumours have said Flakk Missiles replace Frags and Kraks.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

AV12 isn't weak by any means; even S8 weapons need to tip the odds to break it on average. It has 3HP. How big it is has no reflection on how many HP it has or what its armour should be. A Dread is covered in armour whereas the Fiends seem to have a lot more fleshy areas. Note they both have a 5+ invul, and It Will Not Die as well.

Yes it does small things have 2HP, medium have 3HP and big ones like LR have 4. The connection is s clear as it could get.
And AV 12 is for decent vehicle, as it goes down easysly to anti-armour fire.
I mean, Defiler is AV12 4Hp! how on earth they made Fiend thrice as big but AV123HP?

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Nope, just AP4, that's it.

Well that's good, but if this is the only thing they get over marked and icon carrying regular CSM, I can't see Berserkers being used much unless they're really cheap, considering that AP 4 is utterly wasted against marine opponents.

Do they too have the charge reroll that the icon gives?

 Ratliker wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

AV12 isn't weak by any means; even S8 weapons need to tip the odds to break it on average. It has 3HP. How big it is has no reflection on how many HP it has or what its armour should be. A Dread is covered in armour whereas the Fiends seem to have a lot more fleshy areas. Note they both have a 5+ invul, and It Will Not Die as well.

Yes it does small things have 2HP, medium have 3HP and big ones like LR have 4. The connection is s clear as it could get.
And AV 12 is for decent vehicle, as it goes down easysly to anti-armour fire.
I mean, Defiler is AV12 4Hp! how on earth they made Fiend thrice as big but AV123HP?

The Fiend is not three times bigger than the Defiler. In fact, it appears to be slightly smaller.

And it has special rules to help out as well.

 d-usa wrote:
And it has special rules to help out as well.

Won't the Defiler get IWND and the 5+ invul as well? It is a demon engine, iirc.

ah I see that dr. delorean beat me to it. Page 140 of WD says that taking a lord with nurgle will allow you to field PM as troops. Very interested to see what Typhus's plague zombies will be like

 Ratliker wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

AV12 isn't weak by any means; even S8 weapons need to tip the odds to break it on average. It has 3HP. How big it is has no reflection on how many HP it has or what its armour should be. A Dread is covered in armour whereas the Fiends seem to have a lot more fleshy areas. Note they both have a 5+ invul, and It Will Not Die as well.

Yes it does small things have 2HP, medium have 3HP and big ones like LR have 4. The connection is s clear as it could get.
And AV 12 is for decent vehicle, as it goes down easysly to anti-armour fire.
I mean, Defiler is AV12 4Hp! how on earth they made Fiend thrice as big but AV123HP?

The connection isn't clear, it just happens that most big stuff has a lot of armour on it. Stormtalon is as big as a Rhino but has less HP than it for it, so the precedent was there. Another good example is the Spartan tank, which is the same size as a Land Raider but has 5HP. People just made assumptions it was about size. And BTW, the Fiends are both smaller than a Defiler.

 Crimson wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Nope, just AP4, that's it.

Well that's good, but if this is the only thing they get over marked and icon carrying regular CSM, I can't see Berserkers being used much unless they're really cheap, considering that AP 4 is utterly wasted against marine opponents.

Do they too have the charge reroll that the icon gives?

Not sure about the re-roll but I know Berserkers are 2pts cheaper than they used to be.

 Robbietobbie wrote:
ah I see that dr. delorean beat me to it. Page 140 of WD says that taking a lord with nurgle will allow you to field PM as troops. Very interested to see what Typhus's plague zombies will be like

What I heard is the Zombies have 5+ poison and FNP, but for no extra cost. A rather potent army potentially, led by a hard-as-nails, relatively cheaper Lvl2 Psyker.

 Crimson wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 BDJV wrote:

 VermGho5t wrote:
Has anyone heard or read the rules for vanilla csm troops?

These are the latest rumors that were posted.

Chaos Space Marine
70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.
Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.
Come with bolter/bp/ccw
For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.
Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.

That's not terrible, but the loss of 1 LD point wasn't worth only losing 1 point for a model. If Chaos Marines end up being 13 points I'd be a lot happier, or if it was 70 for Aspiring Champion+4 other Marines and then add 15 additional for 13 points per.

However, if Cultists are still 40 for the initial Champion+9 cultists, and then add 20 more for 3 points per cultist (as rumored), I seriously doubt that I'm even going to be using very many Chaos Marines at all!

Do you realise that loyalist marines are 16 points per dude and do not have CCW for an extra attack? 14 for a Chaos Marine is insanely cheap.

They also have combat tactics, ATSKNF, and get free stuff at 10 men. Oh and they can combat squad. That's worth way more than 2 points.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 BDJV wrote:

 VermGho5t wrote:
Has anyone heard or read the rules for vanilla csm troops?

These are the latest rumors that were posted.

Chaos Space Marine
70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.
Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.
Come with bolter/bp/ccw
For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.
Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.

That's not terrible, but the loss of 1 LD point wasn't worth only losing 1 point for a model. If Chaos Marines end up being 13 points I'd be a lot happier, or if it was 70 for Aspiring Champion+4 other Marines and then add 15 additional for 13 points per.

However, if Cultists are still 40 for the initial Champion+9 cultists, and then add 20 more for 3 points per cultist (as rumored), I seriously doubt that I'm even going to be using very many Chaos Marines at all!

Do you realise that loyalist marines are 16 points per dude and do not have CCW for an extra attack? 14 for a Chaos Marine is insanely cheap.

They also have combat tactics, ATSKNF, and get free stuff at 10 men. Oh and they can combat squad. That's worth way more than 2 points.

Thing is most of that stuff is situational. Those 10 Chaos Marines will match those 10 loyalist Marines in a firefight where those special rules won't come into play, and they will be cheaper.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 BDJV wrote:

 VermGho5t wrote:
Has anyone heard or read the rules for vanilla csm troops?

These are the latest rumors that were posted.

Chaos Space Marine
70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.
Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.
Come with bolter/bp/ccw
For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.
Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.

That's not terrible, but the loss of 1 LD point wasn't worth only losing 1 point for a model. If Chaos Marines end up being 13 points I'd be a lot happier, or if it was 70 for Aspiring Champion+4 other Marines and then add 15 additional for 13 points per.

However, if Cultists are still 40 for the initial Champion+9 cultists, and then add 20 more for 3 points per cultist (as rumored), I seriously doubt that I'm even going to be using very many Chaos Marines at all!

Do you realise that loyalist marines are 16 points per dude and do not have CCW for an extra attack? 14 for a Chaos Marine is insanely cheap.

They also have combat tactics, ATSKNF, and get free stuff at 10 men. Oh and they can combat squad. That's worth way more than 2 points.

ATSKNF, Chaos Marines are LD9 basic, free stuff isn't too major and Combat Squads aren't that good.

Both units are evenly matched.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:


They also have combat tactics, ATSKNF, and get free stuff at 10 men. Oh and they can combat squad. That's worth way more than 2 points.

Thing is most of that stuff is situational. Those 10 Chaos Marines will match those 10 loyalist Marines in a firefight where those special rules won't come into play, and they will be cheaper.

Regular CSM are garbage even with the BP&CCW. No one fielded them in 5th and no one will field them in the new dex. Loyalist marines are much more useful with combat tactics ad ATSKNF. They never run away. CSM are easy to route and can't regroup so are much worse objective sitters. Chaos has plenty of better options than regular CSM who will sit on the shelf collecting dust for another edition. They haven't been useful since you could field them as veterans with veteran traits and weapon options.

Kevlar wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:


They also have combat tactics, ATSKNF, and get free stuff at 10 men. Oh and they can combat squad. That's worth way more than 2 points.

Thing is most of that stuff is situational. Those 10 Chaos Marines will match those 10 loyalist Marines in a firefight where those special rules won't come into play, and they will be cheaper.

Regular CSM are garbage even with the BP&CCW. No one fielded them in 5th and no one will field them in the new dex. Loyalist marines are much more useful with combat tactics ad ATSKNF. They never run away. CSM are easy to route and can't regroup so are much worse objective sitters. Chaos has plenty of better options than regular CSM who will sit on the shelf collecting dust for another edition. They haven't been useful since you could field them as veterans with veteran traits and weapon options.

"No one fielded them in 5th."




I used them, and a five man squad with two plasma guns could wreck havoc, or a ten man squad with mark of slannesh, two flamers and a rhino could devastate...etc....

Your claim is invalid.

"Easy to route."

LD9.

Do we know whether cultists can have marks and/or icons?

 blood reaper wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 BDJV wrote:

 VermGho5t wrote:
Has anyone heard or read the rules for vanilla csm troops?

These are the latest rumors that were posted.

Chaos Space Marine
70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.
Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.
Come with bolter/bp/ccw
For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.
Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.

That's not terrible, but the loss of 1 LD point wasn't worth only losing 1 point for a model. If Chaos Marines end up being 13 points I'd be a lot happier, or if it was 70 for Aspiring Champion+4 other Marines and then add 15 additional for 13 points per.

However, if Cultists are still 40 for the initial Champion+9 cultists, and then add 20 more for 3 points per cultist (as rumored), I seriously doubt that I'm even going to be using very many Chaos Marines at all!

Do you realise that loyalist marines are 16 points per dude and do not have CCW for an extra attack? 14 for a Chaos Marine is insanely cheap.

They also have combat tactics, ATSKNF, and get free stuff at 10 men. Oh and they can combat squad. That's worth way more than 2 points.

ATSKNF, Chaos Marines are LD9 basic, free stuff isn't too major and Combat Squads aren't that good.

Both units are evenly matched.

Chaos Marines are LD8 now. Also I read somewhere that they lost their BP+CCW, I'd like someone to confirm that though since I read it on Warseer.

 blood reaper wrote:

I used them, and a five man squad with two plasma guns could wreck havoc.

I'm sure it could, if it was a legal option. How often did you field that combo in 5th edition?

Kevlar wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

I used them, and a five man squad with two plasma guns could wreck havoc.

I'm sure it could, if it was a legal option. How often did you field that combo in 5th edition?

Sorry, it should have been Champion with combi Plasma as well.

Or Champion with both Plasma Pistol, Combi-Plasma and a single Plasma Gun.

I also often used CSM's. Forked out the banner of nurgle, a champ and gave them a cheap lord as a bit more hitting power and they were fairly durable indeed. Good little objective holders whilst the cult troops went round and did the necessary killing.

Man with these new costs the vanilla CSM are going to be very useful.
I used them in previous dex.a and I will use them now.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Also I read somewhere that they lost their BP+CCW

I really really doubt that. It's one thing for GW to invalidate units, but I doubt they'd invalidate part of a sprue.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 BDJV wrote:

 VermGho5t wrote:
Has anyone heard or read the rules for vanilla csm troops?

These are the latest rumors that were posted.

Chaos Space Marine
70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.
Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.
Come with bolter/bp/ccw
For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.
Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.

That's not terrible, but the loss of 1 LD point wasn't worth only losing 1 point for a model. If Chaos Marines end up being 13 points I'd be a lot happier, or if it was 70 for Aspiring Champion+4 other Marines and then add 15 additional for 13 points per.

However, if Cultists are still 40 for the initial Champion+9 cultists, and then add 20 more for 3 points per cultist (as rumored), I seriously doubt that I'm even going to be using very many Chaos Marines at all!

Do you realise that loyalist marines are 16 points per dude and do not have CCW for an extra attack? 14 for a Chaos Marine is insanely cheap.

They also have combat tactics, ATSKNF, and get free stuff at 10 men. Oh and they can combat squad. That's worth way more than 2 points.

ATSKNF, Chaos Marines are LD9 basic, free stuff isn't too major and Combat Squads aren't that good.

Both units are evenly matched.

Chaos Marines are LD8 now. Also I read somewhere that they lost their BP+CCW, I'd like someone to confirm that though since I read it on Warseer.

Was wondering the same thing since on pages 62 and 63 of the WD in the description of the 20 squad of CSM he seems to list both extra CCW and Veterans of the Long War as upgrades to the unit.

Veterans of the Long War is +1 to Leadership

 Verd_Warr wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

Chaos Marines are LD8 now. Also I read somewhere that they lost their BP+CCW, I'd like someone to confirm that though since I read it on Warseer.

Was wondering the same thing since on pages 62 and 63 of the WD in the description of the 20 squad of CSM he seems to list both extra CCW and Veterans of the Long War as upgrades to the unit.

Interesting...would anyone mind just posting the army lists from the WD? I have no access to it given that my not-so LGS is about an hour away. Alternatively, if you could PM me a scan of the page that'd be great.

And yeah, Veterans of the Long War is +1 LD and Hatred for Space Marines, which is pretty nifty considering my main opponents all use Marines! haha

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Verd_Warr wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

Chaos Marines are LD8 now. Also I read somewhere that they lost their BP+CCW, I'd like someone to confirm that though since I read it on Warseer.

Was wondering the same thing since on pages 62 and 63 of the WD in the description of the 20 squad of CSM he seems to list both extra CCW and Veterans of the Long War as upgrades to the unit.

Interesting...would anyone mind just posting the army lists from the WD? I have no access to it given that my not-so LGS is about an hour away. Alternatively, if you could PM me a scan of the page that'd be great.

And yeah, Veterans of the Long War is +1 LD and Hatred for Space Marines, which is pretty nifty considering my main opponents all use Marines! haha

Wait, would that mean the removal of Bolters so you could have a Bolt Pistol and CCW?

I'd be fine to upgrade so I could have both, but other wise that's a pain in the ass, as most of my models are converted to have a Bolter in one hand and a Chainsword in the other.

The Icon of vengeance also give fearless. I have to agree though, with the cost of the aspiring champion included into the squad, they don't feel all that inexpensive or exciting anymore. You can only ever have one dude in every squad with a heavy weapon too unlocked at 10 men. I was hoping this would prove an alternative to having a cultist objective camped in the back, with a 2x autocannon in 10 men or 5 men and one autocannon behind a defense line, but they seem to want to make CSM composition hold very close to codex marine ones.

I guess it comes down to how expensive these marks end up being. Might still be very worth taking with a lord making a bunch of them fearless or other cost shared buffs from marks or icons. 20 men with 4 plasma guns and counter attack from an icon and fearless from a lord might be pretty cute. The cost of the buffs go down the more CSM are benefitting and the weight of those extra attacks really start being felt.

I'm still considering unupgraded noise marines. I hope they are still fearless, that would rule. Just a power weapon on the champion and maybe an icon or something between them. Cheap, fearless, initiative 5 marines with 2 attacks and an AP3 flamer template. Add metal box for added cruelty and blocking.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Not sure how I feel about salvo on sonic blasters. I really liked their versatility in the old dex, they were good at a pinch in cc [wiped out a few marine squads before actually getting into assault a few times in my day ] They also provided highly mobile [if in a rhino] mid-range fire support.

Salvo effectively ends NMs as an assault unit. It also restricts their mobility, and will probably only see use as objective campers or immobile mid-range fire support. They will be really good at both of these roles though, especially with ignore cover, and if you add in a doom siren they will get to put out a lot of overwatch shots.

Not sure where I'm going to get my assault troops from as there's no way I'm taking any Khorne in my Slaanesh army. Pretty much forces me to take Slaaneshy Daemon allies. Maybe that's what they wanted...

This is exactly how I used to run my army. I had 5 troop choices. Two were damonettes, two were HTH noise marines with no sonic weapons, one was a shooty noise marine squad (all with sonic weapons). Then there was a 4 blastmaster havok squad, and more sonic weapons on my biker squad.

The combination of dedicated shooty to soften stuff up and then go in with a hard hitting high initative unit removed many threats without loosing too much in return. As for the damonettes, I'm really hoping there is some sort of summoning icon that makes for daemon allies that are reliable.

 Lucre wrote:
The Icon of vengeance also give fearless. I have to agree though, with the cost of the aspiring champion included into the squad, they don't feel all that inexpensive or exciting anymore. You can only ever have one dude in every squad with a heavy weapon too unlocked at 10 men. I was hoping this would prove an alternative to having a cultist objective camped in the back, with a 2x autocannon in 10 men or 5 men and one autocannon behind a defense line, but they seem to want to make CSM composition hold very close to codex marine ones.

I guess it comes down to how expensive these marks end up being. Might still be very worth taking with a lord making a bunch of them fearless or other cost shared buffs from marks or icons. 20 men with 4 plasma guns and counter attack from an icon and fearless from a lord might be pretty cute. The cost of the buffs go down the more CSM are benefitting and the weight of those extra attacks really start being felt.

I'm still considering unupgraded noise marines. I hope they are still fearless, that would rule. Just a power weapon on the champion and maybe an icon or something between them. Cheap, fearless, initiative 5 marines with 2 attacks and an AP3 flamer template. Add metal box for added cruelty and blocking.

Don't forget to throw in the Dirge Caster to deny defensive fire.

I just peeked at the GW site and was surprised that there was no boxes of chosen or cultists in this release. It seems that it would have made sense to make those two especially after Dark Vengeance. I just want more cultists

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Does anyone know what the fiend with the hades autocannon is like? I.e. weapon stats and such.

Also, is the dragon going to solely be a anti flyer unit or would it be good in a game were the opponent has no flyers? All I know of the flyer is that it has a anti-flyer attack, so any other info on the flyers rules would be much appreciated

Apparently, the Hades is 48" range, S8 AP4 Heavy 4, Pinning
the Dragon could come with a hades.

Sweet, thanks mate

Am i the only one who thought this?

 Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:
I just peeked at the GW site and was surprised that there was no boxes of chosen or cultists in this release. It seems that it would have made sense to make those two especially after Dark Vengeance. I just want more cultists

Then you need MORE copies of Dark Vengeance

(sorry, I'm in sarcastic anti-GW mode at the moment)

 HoverBoy wrote:
Am i the only one who thought this?

Nah, 40k is a sexless universe. The space marines are all eunichs. Even the slaanesh demons have been deboobed.

 HoverBoy wrote:
Am i the only one who thought this?

For extra fun, make him part of the emperor's children.

 Jayden63 wrote:


This is exactly how I used to run my army. I had 5 troop choices. Two were damonettes, two were HTH noise marines with no sonic weapons, one was a shooty noise marine squad (all with sonic weapons). Then there was a 4 blastmaster havok squad, and more sonic weapons on my biker squad.

The combination of dedicated shooty to soften stuff up and then go in with a hard hitting high initative unit removed many threats without loosing too much in return. As for the damonettes, I'm really hoping there is some sort of summoning icon that makes for daemon allies that are reliable.

Can't deamons benefit from personal icons in the csm codex. Battle bros are considered friendly units.

I thinkin runnin with this:

2 slaanesh sorcerers (assuming I can have noise marines as troops)

2x shooty NM

havocs with blastmasters (assuming thats possible)

a shooty deamon engine

Slaanesh allies:

masque

daemonettes

3x slaanesh chariots and maybe some seekers.

Kevlar wrote:

 HoverBoy wrote:
Am i the only one who thought this?

Nah, 40k is a sexless universe. The space marines are all eunichs. Even the slaanesh demons have been deboobed.

Would anyone by any chance happen to know what weapon options the cultist leader has? And are there other special/heavy weapon options besides flamer and the heavy stubber? And can you mix shooty and CC cultists in the same squad?

(For some reason to me these lowly cultists are the most interesting unit in the codex.)

 HoverBoy wrote:
Am i the only one who thought this?

Or put beer cans at the end of his tentacles and call him the beersmith.


I like the Aspiring Champion a lot, and the Raptors seem cool (and I'm sure will have lots of bits for tacking on other troops). Not touching the rest.

The problem cultists are going to have is being non fearless cannon fodder if just about anything charges a 30 block of them the combat resolution. A good example is if cultists kill 3 meq (about 48 points worth) and the meq kill 8 cultists (about 24 points worth) the meq wins combat by 5 and the cultists will probably get swept.

2 or 3 full squads is plenty, after that troops units need to be durable units for forward objective takers that won't crumble in cc. Unless off course there is a way to make cultists fearless with an icon, then by all means go wild with cultists.

WELL

Apparently, Dark Apostles can be stuck into the units to make them Fearless.

Sure they'll get pick out in a challenge. But if he wins the challenge, they will be one mean unit

Aiight, here's what I have found out so far:

Basic Chaos Marines are at the point cost I was hoping they'd be at, aka 2 points less than Grey Hunters.
UNFORTUNATELY
CCW's are optional, you have to pay points
Veterans of the Long War is also an optional upgrade

If you take both of the above options, they end up at Tactical Marine cost.

Base squad of cultists is Champion plus 9 for 50 points.
Dark Apostles are the cost of a Dreadnought and are an HQ choice.

Nice. I wonder if Chosen come with CCW/BP/Bolter?

 Flashman wrote:

Then you need MORE copies of Dark Vengeance

I fail to see how this is a bad thing I would expect cultist models whenever Chaos gets another wave of stuff, whether that's in a couple weeks or a couple months.

 Fugazi wrote:

Or put beer cans at the end of his tentacles and call him the beersmith.

This is a good idea.

Also, looking at the battleforce, you're saving about $32 over buying everything retail. Not bad! Then you realize that most of those savings are on the Chaos Biker models, which are ancient and have zero options. Oh well, I guess Chaos can't escape having ancient models in their battleforces.

Out of curiosity, for the Veterans of the Long War upgrade, with Hatred (Space Marines), does this merely apply to Codex: Space Marines such that they do not hate Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Dark Angels and Black Templars as well? Or does it cover all of them?

 Vaktathi wrote:
Out of curiosity, for the Veterans of the Long War upgrade, with Hatred (Space Marines), does this merely apply to Codex: Space Marines such that they do not hate Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Dark Angels and Black Templars as well? Or does it cover all of them?

Since it doesn't specifically say Codex: Space Marines, I would rule that it applies to -all- Space Marines, and I would suppose even Chaos Space Marines.

 Crimson wrote:
Would anyone by any chance happen to know what weapon options the cultist leader has? And are there other special/heavy weapon options besides flamer and the heavy stubber? And can you mix shooty and CC cultists in the same squad?

(For some reason to me these lowly cultists are the most interesting unit in the codex.)

The playtest entry that was leaked a while ago gave the leader the option of a shotgun and/or power weapon. The heavy weapon options are shotguns, heavy stubbers or flamers. I can't remember about the last part. The points costs seem to have changed/were wrong though so who knows what else will be different.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Aiight, here's what I have found out so far:

Basic Chaos Marines are at the point cost I was hoping they'd be at, aka 2 points less than Grey Hunters.
UNFORTUNATELY
CCW's are optional, you have to pay points
Veterans of the Long War is also an optional upgrade

If you take both of the above options, they end up at Tactical Marine cost.

Base squad of cultists is Champion plus 9 for 50 points.
Dark Apostles are the cost of a Dreadnought and are an HQ choice.

So you can have Bolters and CCW's?

Or is that an illegal option?

 blood reaper wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Aiight, here's what I have found out so far:

Basic Chaos Marines are at the point cost I was hoping they'd be at, aka 2 points less than Grey Hunters.
UNFORTUNATELY
CCW's are optional, you have to pay points
Veterans of the Long War is also an optional upgrade

If you take both of the above options, they end up at Tactical Marine cost.

Base squad of cultists is Champion plus 9 for 50 points.
Dark Apostles are the cost of a Dreadnought and are an HQ choice.

So you can have Bolters and CCW's?

Or is that an illegal option?

I have no idea, I can ask. Also to be honest I may be getting trolled so don't believe just everything I am typing, the person posted an English version of the Chaos Space Marines summary so that's why I believe it's true, though there's always the chance for something to go awry.

And yeah looks like Cultists are the same cost as Conscripts. :(

:edit:
Also Brometheus you will like this, Ahriman apparently got ahold of a Str6 Ap3 force weapon. Now I feel like I'm getting trolled! haha

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Aiight, here's what I have found out so far:

Basic Chaos Marines are at the point cost I was hoping they'd be at, aka 2 points less than Grey Hunters.
UNFORTUNATELY
CCW's are optional, you have to pay points
Veterans of the Long War is also an optional upgrade

If you take both of the above options, they end up at Tactical Marine cost.

Base squad of cultists is Champion plus 9 for 50 points.
Dark Apostles are the cost of a Dreadnought and are an HQ choice.

When I first read this, I was like WTF, theirs no way that they are 1 point more then a sister of battle.
Then I realize that if compared to a Necron warrior, their point cost does make sense. Sure Necrons have a worse armour save and Initiative but they have reanimation protocols, guass weapons and 2 more leadership. Which made me sad, cause I realize my sisters of battle are over-cost.

So a CSM who upgrades to CCW costs as much as a Grey Hunter and has no ATSKNF, no Counterattack, no free special/heavy. Fair enough...

Curious abou Lucius, really want to see if the title eternal means something now...

Okay, huge ass post!

First of all:
Daemon Princes of Tzeentch are going to be stupidly powerful but really expensive. You can have up to 3 Mastery Levels for a Daemon Prince! A Daemon Prince with Power Armor is 50 more points than the current Daemon Prince. Wings are I believe the same cost as the Daemons codex, so a Daemon Prince with PA and Wings is 90 more points than the current Daemon Prince unupgraded.

Sorcerers are super inexpensive! Tzeentch, the HQ section loves you is all I'm gonna say. You guys got a lot of really good stuff going for you so no worries there.

Unit of Chaos Space Marines: 1 Aspiring Champ+4 Marines for 75 points, so not terrible. And I was right about the cost being 2 less than normal Grey Hunters so yeah. Additional close combat weapons are expensive. However you can replace your boltgun with a CCW for free!
Marks scale up, for example the Mark of Khorne is X/points per model instead of there being an icon. A Chaos Space Marine with the Marks of Khorne, Tzeentch or Slaanesh is the same cost as a Grey Hunter, if they have the Mark of Nurgle then they are the same cost as a Tac Marine. This is without other upgrades btw.

Icon of Despair is super cheap, actually most of the Icons really aren't that bad. The Icon of Excess (FNP ) is the most expensive.

Chosen Champs and Aspiring Champs can buy a roll from the Chaos Boon Chart. I know what I'm doing for my first list.

The Armory is Back!
So it's not the same name, but it's basically the same thing as far as I'm concerned
I noted that the Daemon Prince had options from both the Chaos Rewards and Artefacts section, but the wording says "the Daemon Prince has access to Chaos Rewards and Artefacts section of the wargear list. So I believe that Daemon Princes can take Daemon Weapons! woooo

The Aspiring Champion has a similar note, except that it's from the "Ranged or Close Combat section of the wargear list"

I have a question. What happens if your chaos lord issues a challenge, wins and rolls on the table and becomes a daemon prince but you don't have a daemon prince model?

 Necrosis wrote:
I have a question. What happens if your chaos lord issues a challenge, wins and rolls on the table and becomes a daemon prince but you don't have a daemon prince model?

Honestly I'd just say that he absorbs a lot of power but he retains the same look. Maybe just bring a bigger base to put him on.
I'm sure that it is explained better in the book but I haven't seen that portion yet