Yeah of course if it is not perfect why even bother?

the fact that they're going to discontinue transfers and etched brass, makes me feel happy I already bought some.

I was going to (@ a later date) build a bunch of drop troops but now i guess not.

mortar_crew wrote:
Well I just bought a bunch of Elysian stuff to complete what I needed, but it is a shame
to see them go this way. These figures are still some of the best FW ever produced
in my opinion.

But with the GW dumb move to just release rules for troops and options
that have actual models in sale, we may also see the drop-troop regiment
vanish altogether in the future...

Oh and promises of keeping them are of little value it seems.
I am looking at you FW: where are the missing datasheets
for the missing ork itemms we were promised
when the index came out?



I feel quite pissed right now.

A bunch of legacy stuff just got rules in the FAQ; can’t guarantee it’s everything, but seemed to be most things.

 Jadenim wrote:

mortar_crew wrote:
Well I just bought a bunch of Elysian stuff to complete what I needed, but it is a shame
to see them go this way. These figures are still some of the best FW ever produced
in my opinion.

But with the GW dumb move to just release rules for troops and options
that have actual models in sale, we may also see the drop-troop regiment
vanish altogether in the future...

Oh and promises of keeping them are of little value it seems.
I am looking at you FW: where are the missing datasheets
for the missing ork itemms we were promised
when the index came out?



I feel quite pissed right now.

A bunch of legacy stuff just got rules in the FAQ; can’t guarantee it’s everything, but seemed to be most things.

I may have missed something but I believe there is not even an Imperial Armour – Index: Xenos entry in the FAQ section yet
to address this issue. One still have to wait I guess.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And thus that's a reason not to do it?

Yes. If the end result is going to look like you put some child's stickers on your model (IOW, look like utter trash) then that's a reason not to do it. If I can't get professional-quality transfers for a design then I'd rather have a different design, or even nothing at all, than a home-printed mess.

 Peregrine wrote:
Yes. If the end result is going to look like you put some child's stickers on your model (IOW, look like utter trash) then that's a reason not to do it. If I can't get professional-quality transfers for a design then I'd rather have a different design, or even nothing at all, than a home-printed mess.

Again, you're assuming that no one can make their own transfers, and that the only transfers that will ever look good are the ones produced by FW. You're assuming that all home printed transfers will be awful as well.

It's a very strange assumption.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Yes. If the end result is going to look like you put some child's stickers on your model (IOW, look like utter trash) then that's a reason not to do it. If I can't get professional-quality transfers for a design then I'd rather have a different design, or even nothing at all, than a home-printed mess.

Again, you're assuming that no one can make their own transfers, and that the only transfers that will ever look good are the ones produced by FW. You're assuming that all home printed transfers will be awful as well.

It's a very strange assumption.

It's an accurate assumption when you're talking about duplicating a transfer sheet that requires white ink and the vast majority of people do not have access to a printer that can print with white ink.

mortar_crew wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:

mortar_crew wrote:
Well I just bought a bunch of Elysian stuff to complete what I needed, but it is a shame
to see them go this way. These figures are still some of the best FW ever produced
in my opinion.

But with the GW dumb move to just release rules for troops and options
that have actual models in sale, we may also see the drop-troop regiment
vanish altogether in the future...

Oh and promises of keeping them are of little value it seems.
I am looking at you FW: where are the missing datasheets
for the missing ork itemms we were promised
when the index came out?



I feel quite pissed right now.

A bunch of legacy stuff just got rules in the FAQ; can’t guarantee it’s everything, but seemed to be most things.

I may have missed something but I believe there is not even an Imperial Armour – Index: Xenos entry in the FAQ section yet
to address this issue. One still have to wait I guess.

That's really really the problem with all these "I believe" and "I don't think so" people on this planet. There IS an IA Xenos FAQ and it has rules for the Grot Bomm Launcha, Attack Fighta, Fighta Bommer, Deathrolla Battle Fortress and Kill Kruscha. They have been up there since the 16th. Yes they don't have any matched points costs, but you can extrapolate them using their power level. And I'm not going to link you to it, use your "blaming without thinking first" energy for it. And you might want to remember that the IA stuff only is published in english and so usually will not have a localized FAQ either.

Guys, stay polite and on topic, please.

GiToRaZor wrote:

mortar_crew wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:

mortar_crew wrote:
Well I just bought a bunch of Elysian stuff to complete what I needed, but it is a shame
to see them go this way. These figures are still some of the best FW ever produced
in my opinion.

But with the GW dumb move to just release rules for troops and options
that have actual models in sale, we may also see the drop-troop regiment
vanish altogether in the future...

Oh and promises of keeping them are of little value it seems.
I am looking at you FW: where are the missing datasheets
for the missing ork itemms we were promised
when the index came out?



I feel quite pissed right now.

A bunch of legacy stuff just got rules in the FAQ; can’t guarantee it’s everything, but seemed to be most things.

I may have missed something but I believe there is not even an Imperial Armour – Index: Xenos entry in the FAQ section yet
to address this issue. One still have to wait I guess.

That's really really the problem with all these "I believe" and "I don't think so" people on this planet. There IS an IA Xenos FAQ and it has rules for the Grot Bomm Launcha, Attack Fighta, Fighta Bommer, Deathrolla Battle Fortress and Kill Kruscha. They have been up there since the 16th. Yes they don't have any matched points costs, but you can extrapolate them using their power level. And I'm not going to link you to it, use your "blaming without thinking first" energy for it. And you might want to remember that the IA stuff only is published in english and so usually will not have a localized FAQ either.

I feel the answer is a bit rude here, but anyway, I was plain wrong on this one: there is an entry.
Stupid me.

Thanks for the input.


No looted wagon or gunwagon yet, but still...

Sad that they're discontinuing the Elysians. I love the models, they're still some of the best stuff FW has ever done. Wish this meant they were being released in plastic, but I assume not.

Up on the community site today:

A painted version of the House Orlock Hired gun and his dog.

 Peregrine wrote:

It's an accurate assumption when you're talking about duplicating a transfer sheet that requires white ink and the vast majority of people do not have access to a printer that can print with white ink.

You CAN get white backed transfer sheets, but they're tricky to work with and if you were to argue that they're not the same, I would entirely agree.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Apparently there are aftermarket companies that sell white toner cartridges:

https://www.ghost-white-toner.com/printer_category/clp-415n/?lang=en

That's for my printer even. At that price though, I think I'd be reluctant to just try it for funsies. If someone wants to buy me one, I'd print and ship you whatever transfers you wanted for free.

Eeeew. I just read up on how to use it. It replaces the black cart and requires multiple print passes for anything not 100% CMY, which would require some moderate photoshop work to slice up the transfer image. That's a lot of effort for a transfer sheet.

If we could take any further discussion regarding the printing of your own decals to a thread of its own and stick to Forge World news and rumours here, that'd be great.

 scottmmmm wrote:
Up on the community site today:

A painted version of the House Orlock Hired gun and his dog.

Another model murdered by that painter...sad.

TBF I think there's a lot to like about the dog, both sculpt and paint job wise.

Orlock is more meh for me, but then the Orlock aesthetic has never really been in my wheelhouse.

He's perhaps a bit plain, but he fits in perfectly with the rest of the gangers.

The dog looks excellent though I can't help but feel that it is a bit out of place as it looks to me, ignoring the bionics and scars, a bit too healthy a beast to be kept in the underhive.

 BrookM wrote:
He's perhaps a bit plain, but he fits in perfectly with the rest of the gangers.

The dog looks excellent though I can't help but feel that it is a bit out of place as it looks to me, ignoring the bionics and scars, a bit too healthy a beast to be kept in the underhive.

Isn't this guy like the big cheese of big cheeses though? The leader of a coalition of gangs not just a mere gang leader. As such, I would expect him to have a fabulous amount of resources available in comparison to a typical gang, and getting a much nicer pet doggy than most gangers have access to would match this. This guy is kinda like a really successful mafia boss, who now has a bunch of other, lesser gangs doing the business end of his dealings, and he rarely has to get his hands dirty.

Same for his other equipment, and for the equipment of the Escher character too.


Hmm, reading the Warhammer Community post, he seems to just be a hired gun now. Hmm.

I really really like that dog. It's a great, real feeling sculpt.

Weird to see so many mourning the Elysians. The line is plagued with models stuck in absolutely terrible 'action' poses. The armor/weapon design was pretty cool though so it is sad to see the whole concept tossed out.

Not like they've truly gone away though. Recasters will no doubt pick up the slack.

hobojebus wrote:
Another model murdered by that painter...sad.

The painter's Giuseppe Chiafele and they're active on Facebook if you'd like to give them some tips.

Well he has stopped doing skin/flesh in nmm so that's a start I guess.

While he is much better than me that doesn't stop him being one of the worst studio painters I have seen which is embarrassing when you think about it.

He is not even as good as most of the freelancers.

In most cases he manages to make the physical models look worse then they actually are. Except the SW stuff and Valdor there just gak sculpts in the first place oh and a couple of the BloodBowl special players and damn nearly forgot the new gak lotr the nine.

Damn now I think about it maybe he is a good fit as Forgeworld have released some gak sculpts recently, I can think of more duds in the last 24 mths than in FW entire history prior.

RogueApiary wrote:
Weird to see so many mourning the Elysians. The line is plagued with models stuck in absolutely terrible 'action' poses. The armor/weapon design was pretty cool though so it is sad to see the whole concept tossed out.

Not like they've truly gone away though. Recasters will no doubt pick up the slack.

Always reminded me of the plastic imperial guard from the rogue trader era.

Some slightly unconventional doors for your space marine vehicles this week. But don't worry, they're far more important than those silly Elysian models.

Love Slagmyst, a great sculpt. Nice to have more rogue trader era type sculpts added to the range.

I want them to release the licecream man that they concept'ed up during the HH Weekender seminar...

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Love Slagmyst, a great sculpt.

I must question the painter's sense, though. The guy is all-armored, with lots of implants and random bits of flesh replaced by metal, yet his most delicate and vulnerable part, hands, is for some reason bare. Even the two other gang minis from this release wear gloves despite lots of exposed skin, why would you paint hands as flesh when it sticks out like a sore thumb?

Very nice models! I'll definitely be placing an order for those.

(Still can't believe we have a new Squat model after all these years...)

 Irbis wrote:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Love Slagmyst, a great sculpt.

I must question the painter's sense, though. The guy is all-armored, with lots of implants and random bits of flesh replaced by metal, yet his most delicate and vulnerable part, hands, is for some reason bare.

Some people just really HATE wearing gloves.

 Irbis wrote:

I must question the painter's sense, though. The guy is all-armored, with lots of implants and random bits of flesh replaced by metal, yet his most delicate and vulnerable part, hands, is for some reason bare. Even the two other gang minis from this release wear gloves despite lots of exposed skin, why would you paint hands as flesh when it sticks out like a sore thumb?

In defence of the painter, it's mentioned in his lore that the only flesh visible is his hands.

 Irbis wrote:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Love Slagmyst, a great sculpt.

I must question the painter's sense, though. The guy is all-armored, with lots of implants and random bits of flesh replaced by metal, yet his most delicate and vulnerable part, hands, is for some reason bare. Even the two other gang minis from this release wear gloves despite lots of exposed skin, why would you paint hands as flesh when it sticks out like a sore thumb?

The details on the hands are clearly meant to be skin. This is an instance of him just painting things as directed.

Yes, as Tim the Biovore says. Almost certainly intentional. The background on the webpage makes a specific point of his hands:

His hands – apparently the only part of him still fleshy – poke out from under the robe, clutching his gun.

From a painting point of view, the pale skintone is also providing good, eye-catching contrast in a complex area that would otherwise be confusing. Having bare hands against the similarly-toned gun and cloth makes it much easier to 'read'.

Looks like the free shipping offer has been extended due to "Popular demand".

They also have several Solar Auxilia bundles on sale, though some are out of stock straight away, GG.

 BrookM wrote:
They also have several Solar Auxilia bundles on sale, though some are out of stock straight away, GG.

Real shame about the Rapiers. Maybe a bundle could have saved them? Also, looks like the terminte has been insanely popular

IIRC Rapiers were in a previous bundle? I like them, I want them, but they were a bit too pricey for my tastes.

 BrookM wrote:
IIRC Rapiers were in a previous bundle? I like them, I want them, but they were a bit too pricey for my tastes.

Don't remember seeing a bundle. At least not in the last year or so.

IIRC it had a squad of Veletaris, Charonites and Rapier(s).

Hopefully there’s still the £100 free shipping when Alpharius is released.

As of typing, not seeing any new releases, though they have updated the Last Chance to Buy section: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/searchResults?N=663703071+4198382931

Much to the delight of some unoriginal comedians, a lot of Space Marine upgrade packs and the Black Shield decal sheet will be phased out.

Blimey. Now that's unusual. Though, I can understand why as they are very pricey. It's been suspected that those packs, along with doors, were healthy sellers (You've spent £240, here's a pack of shoulder pads to take me over the free shipping threshold). Maybe they weren't as big a seller as we thought.

This month, when you buy a Contemptor, Leviathan, Deredeo or Mk IV Dreadnought and two weapons, we'll give you the second absolutely free.

Shame the transfers are going always wanted a set but never had the funds spare. So are we going to get whole new sets of legion specific stuff?

Also does Forgeworld not deliver to the rest of the Netherlands? Was looking at GW main earlier and noticed that they know about the Netherlands...

Very nicely that dread offer for the Deredeo gives the most expensive option free! Really surprised at that.

Mostly torsos and the alternate sets (invictarii for UM) going away, as well as the bundle deals.

 BrookM wrote:
As of typing, not seeing any new releases, though they have updated the Last Chance to Buy section: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/searchResults?N=663703071+4198382931

Much to the delight of some unoriginal comedians, a lot of Space Marine upgrade packs and the Black Shield decal sheet will be phased out.

Weird. The one that really hurts me is the Sons of Horus cataphractii one. Chest upgrades I can live as those makes only sense for h2h armed guys anyway. they are nice and I might have bought for next h2h power armoured guy but won't be too heartbroken without. Shoulder pad that was lost I used for characters so that's bit annoying but at least basic one still stays. But cataphractii one...Ouch. Will look silly when I get my terminatos 11-15 without those then.

edit: Aww that dreadnought deal. Would be nice except postage will eat almost all the savings :( 4£ saved for leviathan only due to postages. And don't have 250£ to spare now.

edit2: Oh free shipping is now 100£...That's actually more tempting. Deredeo+leviathan would be 110£ saving total of 32£. Much more feasible now than 250£ and 32£ savings starts to feel.

 ingtaer wrote:
Also does Forgeworld not deliver to the rest of the Netherlands? Was looking at GW main earlier and noticed that they know about the Netherlands...

Rest of the Netherlands?

No FW products if you live outside of the Randstad!

So they make "Pop Goes The Monkey" stop selling his 3d printed shoulder pads and now stop selling them themselves?

Why are they stopping to sell HH upgrades? I do not understand this ...

 Fireball wrote:
Why are they stopping to sell HH upgrades? I do not understand this ...

There was an (unverified) rumour that was bounced around that says Forgeworld had requested an increase in warehouse space which was denied. So, if true, they're trimming the slow sellers from their lines. Lets face it, these aren't necessary to collect 30k, especially with the transfers. They're nice to haves. Though, looking at posts on a few other forums, you'd think Forgeworld just "last chance to buy'd" the Spartan!

Just bought 2 sets of Thousand Sons upgrades :/

Looks like a load more bundles and a few more pads have just gone up

I'm sorry I'm pretty confused right now. What are they thinking doing this? Some of these molds aren't even a year old? I'm getting my transfers for other legions and titan while I can. I bet those are going next.

 zedmeister wrote:

 Fireball wrote:
Why are they stopping to sell HH upgrades? I do not understand this ...

There was an (unverified) rumour that was bounced around that says Forgeworld had requested an increase in warehouse space which was denied. So, if true, they're trimming the slow sellers from their lines. Lets face it, these aren't necessary to collect 30k, especially with the transfers. They're nice to haves. Though, looking at posts on a few other forums, you'd think Forgeworld just "last chance to buy'd" the Spartan!

The sculpted heads and torsos are a big deal. I agree losing the shoulder pads is no biggie, but the rest is all pretty sad.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
I'm sorry I'm pretty confused right now. What are they thinking doing this? Some of these molds aren't even a year old? I'm getting my transfers for other legions and titan while I can. I bet those are going next.

I second that. First they trash the Elysian and now this.
All the ranges for 40K are being reduced if not axed alltogether.

What are they planning to sell?
Lord of the Ring (no offence intended) ?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

 Fireball wrote:
Why are they stopping to sell HH upgrades? I do not understand this ...

There was an (unverified) rumour that was bounced around that says Forgeworld had requested an increase in warehouse space which was denied. So, if true, they're trimming the slow sellers from their lines. Lets face it, these aren't necessary to collect 30k, especially with the transfers. They're nice to haves. Though, looking at posts on a few other forums, you'd think Forgeworld just "last chance to buy'd" the Spartan!

The sculpted heads and torsos are a big deal. I agree losing the shoulder pads is no biggie, but the rest is all pretty sad.

There's ONE(ultramarine specific unit) that goes away. Bundles goes yes but that's probably because part of it goes away. They would have to do new bundle to replace it with 2 out of 3(or 1 out of 3) left on sale.

Torsos? For anybody with bolter/special weapon those aren't even visible. It's the least interesting part I find. Shoulder pad meanwhile those are visible on every model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mortar_crew wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
I'm sorry I'm pretty confused right now. What are they thinking doing this? Some of these molds aren't even a year old? I'm getting my transfers for other legions and titan while I can. I bet those are going next.

I second that. First they trash the Elysian and now this.
All the ranges for 40K are being reduced if not axed alltogether.

What are they planning to sell?
Lord of the Ring (no offence intended) ?

Well for sons of horus after removing 5 kits they remove there's still 149 items to sell...I think they have enough things to sell.

Guess items didn't sell enough to justify selling them more. They aren't in this for charity.

A shame. The White Scars legion helmets where really really cool.

Shame that upgrade sets are going but it's hard to be too sad when there was no chance of me buying any of them.

This is really disappointing... I'm just starting a Salamanders army, and I was planning to use FW pads on every. single. model and torso upgrades on all sergeants. I even got a sprue of mkiii marines to make sure that the legs and arms are in keeping with the torsos.

I only have 20 of them, but if they're going away, I'm going to have to rethink things....

Edit: evidently, the mkii shoulder pads are the only ones being discontinued. Mkiii and mkiv are safe for now. The loss of torsos is a big deal for me, though. I might have to pick up another pack long before I was ready to do so.

Annirak wrote:
This is really disappointing... I'm just starting a Salamanders army, and I was planning to use FW pads on every. single. model and torso upgrades on all sergeants. I even got a sprue of mkiii marines to make sure that the legs and arms are in keeping with the torsos.

I only have 20 of them, but if they're going away, I'm going to have to rethink things....

Edit: evidently, the mkii shoulder pads are the only ones being discontinued. Mkiii and mkiv are safe for now. The loss of torsos is a big deal for me, though. I might have to pick up another pack long before I was ready to do so.

People as he noted note that it's not every single upgrade kit going. Specifically MKII are the ones really going away. MKIV are fairly safe(sons of horus lost one of the 2 they had but still has the primary one). Some MKIII kits are also going.

It's not "no more shoulder pads at all".

I wonder if this is a sign that GW is finally going to be releasing Salamanders, Raven Guard, and Imperial Fist upgrade sprues in plastic?

 Kanluwen wrote:
I wonder if this is a sign that GW is finally going to be releasing Salamanders, Raven Guard, and Imperial Fist upgrade sprues in plastic?

For Primaris Marines, maybe.

According to someone who says he has sources on b&c, essentially FW got denied a warehouse size increase, so now they have to dump the nice but not necessary stuff.

Torsos for marines are typically mostly hidden, for example, so can afford to be cut. More popular legions are keeping their helmets, others...

I picked some stuff up to future proof my marines, since my Battle Company was done in mostly Praetorian plate and it would feel wrong to throw in normal mk4 chests with the praet ones.

 zedmeister wrote:

 Fireball wrote:
Why are they stopping to sell HH upgrades? I do not understand this ...

There was an (unverified) rumour that was bounced around that says Forgeworld had requested an increase in warehouse space which was denied. So, if true, they're trimming the slow sellers from their lines. Lets face it, these aren't necessary to collect 30k, especially with the transfers. They're nice to haves. Though, looking at posts on a few other forums, you'd think Forgeworld just "last chance to buy'd" the Spartan!

That's make absolutely ZERO sense.
First of all - 30k is about legions and upgrade packs for each legion is a butter (where bread is new plastic bodies from BaC and BoP)
Second - why would you want to expel thing that have at least some kind of demand while there is a ton of... old and unnecessary products to say the least
Third - upgrade packs to save some space? really? Unless they made millions of them - upgrade packs is one of the smallest item (with the most efficient volume-to-price ratio). And obviously the transfers are the real space saver. I imagine how much space transfers will save.

I see only one really bad possible reason - if they shut down the whole Heresy line. And that is somewhere about 0.0000001 chance to happen. It's like making a dinner from chiken, producing a golden eggs (especially when they plan to make new Heresy books)

The whole other reasons is that they want to replace it with something new, or different (but with similar role)
And there can be speculations - whether they want to make new forms/casts as they already did with Vehicle doors , or they want to rearrange the whole kits, repack with other items, or make a new and standart line.

Keeping virtually non selling items on production costs money so it makes sense. Bigger profits. And with plastic marines how much mk2 parts you think they sell? Note most lcb's are mk2

tneva82 wrote:

Annirak wrote:
This is really disappointing... I'm just starting a Salamanders army, and I was planning to use FW pads on every. single. model and torso upgrades on all sergeants. I even got a sprue of mkiii marines to make sure that the legs and arms are in keeping with the torsos.

I only have 20 of them, but if they're going away, I'm going to have to rethink things....

Edit: evidently, the mkii shoulder pads are the only ones being discontinued. Mkiii and mkiv are safe for now. The loss of torsos is a big deal for me, though. I might have to pick up another pack long before I was ready to do so.

People as he noted note that it's not every single upgrade kit going. Specifically MKII are the ones really going away. MKIV are fairly safe(sons of horus lost one of the 2 they had but still has the primary one). Some MKIII kits are also going.

It's not "no more shoulder pads at all".

I'm hoping that MKiii shoulder pads stick around too. I would expect MKiv and MKiii it to sell better than MKii because there are plastic kits for MKiii and MKiv but not for MKii. Also, MKiv shoulders work reasonably well with MKv, MKvi, and MKviii armour as well.

Indomitus pattern terminator pads also appear safe for now.

I'd been hoping they'd do another HH boxed game with MkII armour for my White Scars.

Getting rid of the MkII upgrade sets suggests that might not be happening :(

 scottmmmm wrote:
I'd been hoping they'd do another HH boxed game with MkII armour for my White Scars.

Getting rid of the MkII upgrade sets suggests that might not be happening :(

I highly doubt we'll see another Horus Heresy plastic box. At least, not in the next few years. Next two years will probably see Forgeworld releasing Adeptus Titanicus and Battlefleet Gothic as well as continued support for Blood Bowl and Necromunda. I can't see them dedicating time to producing another Heresy boxed set.

 zedmeister wrote:

 scottmmmm wrote:
I'd been hoping they'd do another HH boxed game with MkII armour for my White Scars.

Getting rid of the MkII upgrade sets suggests that might not be happening :(

I highly doubt we'll see another Horus Heresy plastic box. At least, not in the next few years. Next two years will probably see Forgeworld releasing Adeptus Titanicus and Battlefleet Gothic as well as continued support for Blood Bowl and Necromunda. I can't see them dedicating time to producing another Heresy boxed set.

Which is actually a good thing. It makes much more sense for Forgeworld to concentrate their efforts on producing something actually new, rather than a slightly different version of a thing main GW already makes. Frankly, whole HH is pretty pointless. You can already play Space Marines vs Space Marines in 40K.

So everything involving torsos is going away ... also some MkII Shoulder Pads ... helmets and most pads stay so thats all right I guess

 Fireball wrote:
So everything involving torsos is going away ... also some MkII Shoulder Pads ... helmets and most pads stay so thats all right I guess

Helmets and Shoulderpads stay... So the bits that are compatible with Primaris Marines!

 Omega-soul wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

 Fireball wrote:
Why are they stopping to sell HH upgrades? I do not understand this ...

There was an (unverified) rumour that was bounced around that says Forgeworld had requested an increase in warehouse space which was denied. So, if true, they're trimming the slow sellers from their lines. Lets face it, these aren't necessary to collect 30k, especially with the transfers. They're nice to haves. Though, looking at posts on a few other forums, you'd think Forgeworld just "last chance to buy'd" the Spartan!

That's make absolutely ZERO sense.
First of all - 30k is about legions and upgrade packs for each legion is a butter (where bread is new plastic bodies from BaC and BoP)
Second - why would you want to expel thing that have at least some kind of demand while there is a ton of... old and unnecessary products to say the least
Third - upgrade packs to save some space? really? Unless they made millions of them - upgrade packs is one of the smallest item (with the most efficient volume-to-price ratio). And obviously the transfers are the real space saver. I imagine how much space transfers will save.

I see only one really bad possible reason - if they shut down the whole Heresy line. And that is somewhere about 0.0000001 chance to happen. It's like making a dinner from chiken, producing a golden eggs (especially when they plan to make new Heresy books)

The whole other reasons is that they want to replace it with something new, or different (but with similar role)
And there can be speculations - whether they want to make new forms/casts as they already did with Vehicle doors , or they want to rearrange the whole kits, repack with other items, or make a new and standart line.

Your correct, myself and EVERY other heresy player in my area buy the legion upgrade packs, they make the legions look very different from each other and a black dark angel is very noticeably different from a black iron hand because of this, if they don’t bring them back in some manner then I will be forced to buy them “elsewhere”

The UM invictarii leaving doesn’t mean a unit is going away, as the Suzerain kit is still a thing.

I was hoping to see Ultramarines cataphractii pads for my fulmentari but oh well.

 Fireball wrote:
So everything involving torsos is going away ... also some MkII Shoulder Pads ... helmets and most pads stay so thats all right I guess

Helmets too. At least Ultramarines Invictariesthere.
In e-mail promotion there is also listed white scars and thousand sons helmets.

I think it's incorrect to make assumption based on armour patterns - there is a different kit made in different years for different marks of armour.

And some of them are quite new (the space wolf I think is the most recent a year and a half old I think).

This makes me think about more technical issues.
Maybe even the copyrights problems with sculptors, or mould damage or something similar.

Some posts from M_R_Parker of B&C on what's happening:

There's no huge rush at the moment if you're looking to buy online - they have plenty of stock at the moment and they're guaranteeing orders that come through regardless. You won't suddenly see certain upgrade packs disappear as they sell out, which is a relief. Secondly, they're not sure how long these are going to be on the site before but the timeframe is estimated to be "two weekends", based off the Elysian LCTB, so you should have this weekend, next week and the following weekend to place orders.

As to why, apparently MkII is apparently not great for the moulds, but primarily this looks like a popularity thing. got the standard response of "There's only so much space for storage / moulds, and every now and again some of the less popular lines have to be removed. They may get reintroduced later, or as part of something different, but for the moment they have to go to make space for new lines". They do seem to be focussing on the MkII pads, torsos, and Cataphractii pads.

This is more of an interesting one I think. I think they fell into the "all or nothing" camp, with "nothing" being the easier option than releasing 12 additional Cataphractii sets and a further 18 Tartaros sets.
The semi-official line was that when the 6 sets were released there were completed designs for the other 12 legions that didn't make the final grade. Pressures on the sculpting team meant that they were left on the shelf and weren't updated with the given feedback, so we were left with only those six sets. A shame really, because they were awesome!

 Omega-soul wrote:
That's make absolutely ZERO sense.
First of all - 30k is about legions and upgrade packs for each legion is a butter (where bread is new plastic bodies from BaC and BoP)
Second - why would you want to expel thing that have at least some kind of demand while there is a ton of... old and unnecessary products to say the least
Third - upgrade packs to save some space? really? Unless they made millions of them - upgrade packs is one of the smallest item (with the most efficient volume-to-price ratio). And obviously the transfers are the real space saver. I imagine how much space transfers will save.

I see only one really bad possible reason - if they shut down the whole Heresy line. And that is somewhere about 0.0000001 chance to happen. It's like making a dinner from chiken, producing a golden eggs (especially when they plan to make new Heresy books)

The whole other reasons is that they want to replace it with something new, or different (but with similar role)
And there can be speculations - whether they want to make new forms/casts as they already did with Vehicle doors , or they want to rearrange the whole kits, repack with other items, or make a new and standart line.

To me, FW axing these particular items implies that 1) China and 3D printers continue to impact their sales, and 2) people aren't starting HH armies like they were a couple years ago.

There are a lot of Heresy fans whistling past the graveyard on this IMO, but 30K isn't growing like it did following the release of the Calth and Prospero boxed sets. I hazard to guess that current FW HH sales are mostly from folks with existing 30K armies (or interested in using the kits in 40K), and people with 30K armies are probably mostly set for their basic infantry and aren't as much in need of upgrade packs.

HH once seemed like a rapidly growing, third 'core game' in the making. But it seems fairly clear that it's pulling back to become more of a niche product again while the specialist games become the growth driver.

Regarding the black books...let's see how many more we get, and when. Malevolence will happen, although a late 2018 target probably means early 2019 in FW time. And they'll probably make an effort to get DA their full rules, but does that happen in 2020? 2021?

GW are apparently cancelling the plastic HH models.

After some consideration I thin that HH players (like me ) have no reason to panic Mk. III and Mk. IV shoulder pads won't leave the calatogue, vehicles and many other essential models also.

Torsos may be reshaped or completely vanish, but being honest - in 2500 pts army I have 5-10 models with torsos. On marines with bolters they simply aren't visible.

Mk.II will not have plastic set similar to BaC or BoP so their upgrade is too expensive - Mk. II squad with shoulder pads upgrades has almost the same price as two plastic Mk.IV squads with equal upgrades.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
GW are apparently cancelling the plastic HH models.

well - GW/FW ins't removing Mk.III and Mk.IV upgrades so I can't agree They rather cancel Mk.II as common type of armour, leaving mk.II only as a some kind of artefact

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
GW are apparently cancelling the plastic HH models.

Citation needed

Ugh. I honestly wanted to save some money this may, but I really like the FW Salamander Torsi. I might have to order the Salamander upgrade pack. The helmets are quite fancy as well.
Ah well. Whatever can you do :p

I know of a few people who are going to profit greatly from this. GW is literally throwing money away.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I know of a few people who are going to profit greatly from this. GW is literally throwing money away.

You would have to assume they have a better understanding of how much these items sell than we, the random customer do.

I'm still kicking myself that I picked up the Mk IV SW pads by mistake rather than the MK II!

 Crimson wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

 scottmmmm wrote:
I'd been hoping they'd do another HH boxed game with MkII armour for my White Scars.

Getting rid of the MkII upgrade sets suggests that might not be happening :(

I highly doubt we'll see another Horus Heresy plastic box. At least, not in the next few years. Next two years will probably see Forgeworld releasing Adeptus Titanicus and Battlefleet Gothic as well as continued support for Blood Bowl and Necromunda. I can't see them dedicating time to producing another Heresy boxed set.

Which is actually a good thing. It makes much more sense for Forgeworld to concentrate their efforts on producing something actually new, rather than a slightly different version of a thing main GW already makes. Frankly, whole HH is pretty pointless. You can already play Space Marines vs Space Marines in 40K.

Have you played a game of Horus Heresy? Bro, just no. lmao. In no way is it pointless, otherwise it wouldnt be the most popular thing forgeworld produces.

 gorgon wrote:


To me, FW axing these particular items implies that 1) China and 3D printers continue to impact their sales, and 2) people aren't starting HH armies like they were a couple years ago.

There are a lot of Heresy fans whistling past the graveyard on this IMO, but 30K isn't growing like it did following the release of the Calth and Prospero boxed sets. I hazard to guess that current FW HH sales are mostly from folks with existing 30K armies (or interested in using the kits in 40K), and people with 30K armies are probably mostly set for their basic infantry and aren't as much in need of upgrade packs.

HH once seemed like a rapidly growing, third 'core game' in the making. But it seems fairly clear that it's pulling back to become more of a niche product again while the specialist games become the growth driver.

Regarding the black books...let's see how many more we get, and when. Malevolence will happen, although a late 2018 target probably means early 2019 in FW time. And they'll probably make an effort to get DA their full rules, but does that happen in 2020? 2021?

And there is a good reason for that. Several reasons actually.
1) First and foremost - stagnation of 40k in period of 2013-2015
2) Overall hype with plastic heresy - that was huge boost as so many players can't stand resin models
3) 40k improvement in 2017 and blast with primaris marines
4) Passing of Alan Bligh and divided Forge world team for specialist games projects

And as result - Forgeworld stock with all projects.
We have saying "Forge the iron while it's hot" - and Forge-world lost their momentum.
30k indeed could be the 3rd core game. But I think Citadel/GW saw that as unnecessary competition.

Is there any source for "so many players can't stand resin"?

I think it may be a case of "People love resin, just not when it's from Forge World."

pm713 wrote:
Is there any source for "so many players can't stand resin"?

"Many players can't stomach FW resin prices for infantry" would probably have been a better way to put it. The prices for 20-man tactical squads in resin can get a little eye-watering.

But I agree with him that a lot of momentum for 30K has been lost. The edition update was a key factor here too. Clearly there's still demand -- I recently posted some Mk.3 sprues on eBay, and they sold very quickly. HH may become a niche, but will maintain a solid, devoted niche. At the same time, I think it's whistling past the graveyard to see such core items like these go out of print and think that 30K is humming along better than ever.

A thought I've had since the launch of 8th is that with the indexes allowing so many 30K models in 40K gaming, FW also doesn't need HH as much anymore to push those kits.

In my mind a big part of GW rebuilding its image and bringing players back is the improved communication about the direction of the game. This move to dump 30k items does not have any corresponding announcement. Without any messaging to drive the conversation themselves, GW leaves it to the community to fill the discussion space. It doesn't take long for any online community to run to roof's edge and declare the world is ending.

As an Iron Warrior player, this doesn't impact me at all. The IW bits are awful. The transfers are way better for my purposes. However, I don't understand why FW couldn't start a more of a "print on demand" service for bits. Looking around, there are plenty of 3rd party resin manufactures that have introduced great online systems for ordering customized resin orders where you pick the head, torso, arm, leg options to create unique products. If these smaller entities can do that, I'm not sure why FW can't. Then of course there are the 3D printers and re-casters. They don't seem to have a problem not sitting on stock and making items as needed and I think some of them probably are moving as much product for heresy as FW. GW might be on the cutting edge of plastic model manufacture, but FW is woefully behind the curve for resin.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:


Have you played a game of Horus Heresy? Bro, just no. lmao. In no way is it pointless, otherwise it wouldnt be the most popular thing forgeworld produces.

It obviously cannot be that popular, as FW just discontinued a huge chunk of HH stuff. The whole game could be condensed into a supplement for Space Marine codex which contains the 30K options.

 Crimson wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:


Have you played a game of Horus Heresy? Bro, just no. lmao. In no way is it pointless, otherwise it wouldnt be the most popular thing forgeworld produces.

It obviously cannot be that popular, as FW just discontinued a huge chunk of HH stuff. The whole game could be condensed into a supplement for Space Marine codex which contains the 30K options.

Not popular? It became so popular that GW made two box sets for it. That speaks volumes.

This recent shift could be for any number of reasons. Certainly doesn't seem to be anything doing with the games popularity, though. I mean, just look at the doors! Alllllllllll the doors!

 Crimson wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:


Have you played a game of Horus Heresy? Bro, just no. lmao. In no way is it pointless, otherwise it wouldnt be the most popular thing forgeworld produces.

It obviously cannot be that popular, as FW just discontinued a huge chunk of HH stuff. The whole game could be condensed into a supplement for Space Marine codex which contains the 30K options.

Minor things. And "huge". 5 out of 154 for sons of horus. Whooooooooo! AMAZING! 3% of items discontinued. Which weren't even essential. STOP THE PRESS! END OF THE WORLD IS NEAR!

Yeah right not. No HH, FW would go bust.

Biggest issue was that those items were for MKII that don't sell due to plastic MKIV and MKIII. Why spend money upkeeping MKII line when you can get more money by concentrating on the MKIII and MKIV line? Yeah maybe MKII might have been profitable. Even more profitable with MKIV. Does FW want X or 2X of profits?

 Crimson wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:


Have you played a game of Horus Heresy? Bro, just no. lmao. In no way is it pointless, otherwise it wouldnt be the most popular thing forgeworld produces.

It obviously cannot be that popular, as FW just discontinued a huge chunk of HH stuff. The whole game could be condensed into a supplement for Space Marine codex which contains the 30K options.

Not if they want to keep the same appeal for the game. The condensed version fits into 5 Codex-sized books full of rules and basically no fluff, which is not far off the entirety of 40k in Index form (BRB and 5 Indices).

A lot of the appeal for the HH rules is the nuanced differences between units and the different flavours and options available. Could you pare down the rules to fit into a single supplement? Yes, but then it wouldn't be anywhere near as good as it is.

There's literally a weekend long event annually for Horus Heresy put on by Forgeworld. Your argument is invalid lol.

Since they made plastic box sets they'll have cut into the sales of the resin stuff full stop,

and pushed the remaining resin sales towards stuff compatible with the armour marks in plastic

 Crimson wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:


Have you played a game of Horus Heresy? Bro, just no. lmao. In no way is it pointless, otherwise it wouldnt be the most popular thing forgeworld produces.

It obviously cannot be that popular, as FW just discontinued a huge chunk of HH stuff. The whole game could be condensed into a supplement for Space Marine codex which contains the 30K options.

A supplement containing rules, special units and characters for 18 legions plus Blackshield marines, rules for Mechanicum forces, Titan Legions, Knight Households, Solar Auxilia, Imperial Militia and Warp Cults? How big is this supplement going to be?

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
There's literally a weekend long event annually for Horus Heresy put on by Forgeworld. Your argument is invalid lol.

To be fair, it's now the Horus Heresy & Necromunda Weekender.

You guys need to recognize when you're getting trolled. At the same time, I don't think 'HH is as popular and well-supported as ever!' is true, either. It's pretty clear that Specialist Games is the big new thing at FW now, and that's not exactly going to change after Titanicus, Battlefleet, etc. are released. HH isn't going anywhere, but I don't know how anyone can claim it's the priority anymore.

 gorgon wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
There's literally a weekend long event annually for Horus Heresy put on by Forgeworld. Your argument is invalid lol.

To be fair, it's now the Horus Heresy & Necromunda Weekender.

You guys need to recognize when you're getting trolled. At the same time, I don't think 'HH is as popular and well-supported as ever!' is true, either. It's pretty clear that Specialist Games is the big new thing at FW now, and that's not exactly going to change after Titanicus, Battlefleet, etc. are released. HH isn't going anywhere, but I don't know how anyone can claim it's the priority anymore.

Anecdotal evidence suggests you may well be correct. I always got the sense that there were two kinds of HH players, those who really loved the lore and those who played HH because it fixed a lot of the perceived problems with 7th edition. The release of 8th may well have been a big blow to the popularity of HH.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
There's literally a weekend long event annually for Horus Heresy put on by Forgeworld. Your argument is invalid lol.

To be fair, it's now the Horus Heresy & Necromunda Weekender.

You guys need to recognize when you're getting trolled. At the same time, I don't think 'HH is as popular and well-supported as ever!' is true, either. It's pretty clear that Specialist Games is the big new thing at FW now, and that's not exactly going to change after Titanicus, Battlefleet, etc. are released. HH isn't going anywhere, but I don't know how anyone can claim it's the priority anymore.

Anecdotal evidence suggests you may well be correct. I always got the sense that there were two kinds of HH players, those who really loved the lore and those who played HH because it fixed a lot of the perceived problems with 7th edition. The release of 8th may well have been a big blow to the popularity of HH.

Anecdotal evidence is pretty terrible. My anecdotal evidence is that when 8th dropped everyone jumped ship to Heresy because it's still fun and 8th sucks massively. (In our opinion at least, I know a lot of people really like 8th. Somehow.)

Why are you guys all so obviously falling for that guy's trolling?
He's just one random guy on the internet with an opinion that is laughably divorced from reality. Move along.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
Why are you guys all so obviously falling for that guy's trolling?
He's just one random guy on the internet with an opinion that is laughably divorced from reality. Move along.

I think most of us take for granted we are among adults/peers who won't bring that crap here.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
There's literally a weekend long event annually for Horus Heresy put on by Forgeworld. Your argument is invalid lol.

To be fair, it's now the Horus Heresy & Necromunda Weekender.

You guys need to recognize when you're getting trolled. At the same time, I don't think 'HH is as popular and well-supported as ever!' is true, either. It's pretty clear that Specialist Games is the big new thing at FW now, and that's not exactly going to change after Titanicus, Battlefleet, etc. are released. HH isn't going anywhere, but I don't know how anyone can claim it's the priority anymore.

Anecdotal evidence suggests you may well be correct. I always got the sense that there were two kinds of HH players, those who really loved the lore and those who played HH because it fixed a lot of the perceived problems with 7th edition. The release of 8th may well have been a big blow to the popularity of HH.

What I think is that there are many types of players who interface with the rules, fluff, and miniatures in a multitude of ways. The 7th vs. 8th thing is an unfortunate fracture in the community, but even there everyone on either side doesn't have identical interests.

tneva82 wrote:
Minor things. And "huge". 5 out of 154 for sons of horus. Whooooooooo! AMAZING! 3% of items discontinued. Which weren't even essential. STOP THE PRESS! END OF THE WORLD IS NEAR!

Could you try not being so disingenuous?

There are not 154 Sons of Horus options on the FW website. The Sons of Horus section includes everything a Sons of Horus army can take, not 154 items that are specific to the Sons of Horus. That 154 items includes tanks and dreadnoughts that everyone can get, non-Legion specific weapon and upgrade packs, character models and HQ packs, bundle packs for vehicles, aircraft, and even a piece of landing pad terrain.

Of the actual Sons of Horus kits in that 154 list, there are 21 that contain Sons of Horus parts (and some of them are just bundle collections). So they're losing 5 out of 21, not 5 out of 154.

But you knew that already...

Indeed. One if the joys of HH was being able to model your marines to look distinctly different from other legions, not just painting them a different colour and slapping a transfer on them. Although if you were planning on collecting Blackshields, you can’t even slap a transfer on them now.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Indeed. One if the joys of HH was being able to model your marines to look distinctly different from other legions, not just painting them a different colour and slapping a transfer on them. Although if you were planning on collecting Blackshields, you can’t even slap a transfer on them now.

I agree. Although to be fair, the appeal of Blackshields is creating your own unique little force- I can't imagine many folk went for a "stock" Blackshields force and used the transfers.

On the other hand, how much logistics does it take to stock a transfer sheet?

You would imagine they have minimum runs and they weren't selling enough to justify another run.

So, FW is telling us to support our local recasters, right?

hungryugolino wrote:
So, FW is telling us to support our local recasters, right?

Not sure where you are getting that. The torsos probably weren’t selling for gak. People buying recasts are going for big tanks, not Torsos.

There are only a few shoulder pad only SKUs on that list, and they’re the MKII ones. I can’t recall seeing MKII marines on the table...ever. The rest are combos like complete tac squads with helmets, torsos, and pads OR pad + torso combos.

The Dark Angels ones are a head scratcher. They are in the next book, right?

 kronk wrote:

hungryugolino wrote:
So, FW is telling us to support our local recasters, right?

Not sure where you are getting that. The torsos probably weren’t selling for gak. People buying recasts are going for big tanks, not Torsos.

There are only a few shoulder pad only SKUs on that list, and they’re the MKII ones. I can’t recall seeing MKII marines on the table...ever. The rest are combos like complete tac squads with helmets, torsos, and pads OR pad + torso combos.

The Dark Angels ones are a head scratcher. They are in the next book, right?

Dark Angels aren’t, but Blood Angels and White Scars are.

 Haighus wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Indeed. One if the joys of HH was being able to model your marines to look distinctly different from other legions, not just painting them a different colour and slapping a transfer on them. Although if you were planning on collecting Blackshields, you can’t even slap a transfer on them now.

I agree. Although to be fair, the appeal of Blackshields is creating your own unique little force- I can't imagine many folk went for a "stock" Blackshields force and used the transfers.

On the other hand, how much logistics does it take to stock a transfer sheet?

That may be true, but personally that was one of my favourite transfer sheets from FW. So many cool designs and little glyphs. I’ve used them on more than marines.

So, FW gets ride of a bunch of tiny insignificant stuff that has no rules and can easily be bought from 3Ed party and people freak out.
Man HH players are entitled.

Not news, a rumor, on topic or polite - congrats?

Anyway, do we have a release date for Alpharius, and do we know what Primarch is slated to be next?

 Mysterio wrote:

Anyway, do we have a release date for Alpharius, and do we know what Primarch is slated to be next?

He'll be available initially at Warhammer Fest next weekend. I would expect a general release within a few weeks of that.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:

Anyway, do we have a release date for Alpharius, and do we know what Primarch is slated to be next?

He'll be available initially at Warhammer Fest next weekend. I would expect a general release within a few weeks of that.

Do we know the price yet? I mean it's one of the smaller Primarchs and a comparatively rudimentary base, so £60 is the most likely, right?

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Indeed. One if the joys of HH was being able to model your marines to look distinctly different from other legions, not just painting them a different colour and slapping a transfer on them. Although if you were planning on collecting Blackshields, you can’t even slap a transfer on them now.

Soooooo...How many MKII armours your army contains? Hopefully more than 0 since you seems to disagree with their decision.

GW(and by extension FW) aren't doing things out of spite but for ££££££££££££. Just remember reason for every move is basically greed. They might not be correct moves(they aren't perfect super humans so mistakes happen) but it's always about maximising profit margin. And if MKII armours, you know https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FI/Legion-MkII-Crusade-Armour-2016 these guys don't sell neither will their upgrade kits and if the upgrade kits don't sell enough they will cost money for the FW. For price of squad(20) of these you can get 30 MKIV bodies, 2 characters, dreadnought, 10£ spare(and actually even more since calth you can get for discount) AND don't need to still buy weapons!!!

Now I don't know about you but I really suspect that armour is big seller. And if it's not selling odds are bloody good neither are related shoulder pads etc especially as not everybody who buys power armour body will buy shoulder pad to begin with. And if they don't sell enough keeping them on sale costs money for FW. Which in turn leads to smaller profits.

Now remind me. Does FW want more profits at the end of the year or less? Are they in this business for money or for charity?

By far vast majority of items that goes away were predictable to be targets for range culling the second plastic kits were released.

In practice this won't affect armies in large scale. I have yet to see MKII armour out on real except from recasters(no sales for FW) or the one squad I have.

tneva82 wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Indeed. One if the joys of HH was being able to model your marines to look distinctly different from other legions, not just painting them a different colour and slapping a transfer on them. Although if you were planning on collecting Blackshields, you can’t even slap a transfer on them now.

Soooooo...How many MKII armours your army contains? Hopefully more than 0 since you seems to disagree with their decision.

GW(and by extension FW) aren't doing things out of spite but for ££££££££££££. Just remember reason for every move is basically greed. They might not be correct moves(they aren't perfect super humans so mistakes happen) but it's always about maximising profit margin. And if MKII armours, you know https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FI/Legion-MkII-Crusade-Armour-2016 these guys don't sell neither will their upgrade kits and if the upgrade kits don't sell enough they will cost money for the FW. For price of squad(20) of these you can get 30 MKIV bodies, 2 characters, dreadnought, 10£ spare(and actually even more since calth you can get for discount) AND don't need to still buy weapons!!!

Now I don't know about you but I really suspect that armour is big seller. And if it's not selling odds are bloody good neither are related shoulder pads etc especially as not everybody who buys power armour body will buy shoulder pad to begin with. And if they don't sell enough keeping them on sale costs money for FW. Which in turn leads to smaller profits.

Now remind me. Does FW want more profits at the end of the year or less? Are they in this business for money or for charity?

By far vast majority of items that goes away were predictable to be targets for range culling the second plastic kits were released.

In practice this won't affect armies in large scale. I have yet to see MKII armour out on real except from recasters(no sales for FW) or the one squad I have.

Ignoring your patronising tone, I’m not disagreeing with their decision, I’m just a little sad that it’s happening. Removing all these ways of customising your army makes HH that little bit less enticing at a time when, I suspect, it’s already losing ground. Not all of the upgrade parts being removed are for MkII Armour. Some are designed for mkiii or even mkiv. That can’t be a good sign, if they can’t sell enough upgrades for the marks that do have plastic kits.

People, rule #1 please and stay on topic.

I soent money to future proof my ultramarines.

Im a sell out.

If this ends up them just repacking the salt will be real.

Hmm - I can see the Mk2 stuff going away for now.

I could also see a plastic Mk2 release at some point down the line, and these packs coming back into play then. After all, they're not going to destroy the masters or the moulds...

Not doing Cataphracti pads for the other Legions was something I was a bit irked by, admittedly - seems like a missed opportunity.

Ill have to get my Cataphractii Pads from Pop! Goes the monkey, i suppose. My tartaros ones too while im at it.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Ill have to get my Cataphractii Pads from Pop! Goes the monkey, i suppose. My tartaros ones too while im at it.

The real priority reason (imo) the legion upgrades are getting axed.
They need more room for specialist games, HH is likely dropping in mass as a popular game due to 8th's success (whether you agree or not, I think we can agree this could be highly probable), and recasters and 3d printers are gouging their IP out from under them.
I'd cut the line too. The sad truth is, we all would in their position.

But I'm also taking this as a hopeful, 'well thats 120 new kits for Necro, AT, BB....etc.'
The free dreadnought weapon is a nice unspoken apology.

Any rumors when the next HH book will drop?

Screw more HH books, we need Fires!

We need an Angels of Death book

 griffen127 wrote:
Any rumors when the next HH book will drop?

It’s due by the end of the year but will almost certainly slip to next year. And it’s not ‘angels of death’ anymore - it’s Blood Angels and White Scars, with the Dark Angels in the following book.

 griffen127 wrote:
We need an Angels of Death book

You need. I'd quite fancy getting Fires of Cyraxus first since 2013 was the last time we got an actual IA book (not counting vol. 13 which was a compendium of units for Chaos rather than a campaign and narrative, even if we count that it was 2014!).

If we get another goddamn Space Marine book before Fires, you’ll probably be able to find me banging my head against a wall and screaming.

I hope Fires didn’t have Elysians in it, otherwise another rewrite might be on the cards...

 Jadenim wrote:
I hope Fires didn’t have Elysians in it, otherwise another rewrite might be on the cards...

Probably elysian winning battles against the tau all over, only for the Imperial Navy to leave open a blockade and the tau use a superweapon to destroy elysia.

 griffen127 wrote:
Any rumors when the next HH book will drop?

I wouldnt be surprised if they dropped the new book and first change HH to 8th edition. Or maybe even wait for like 1,5 or even 2 years untill people get bored with 8th 40k and release entirelly new HH edition combining best features of 7th and 8th (like advanced 8th).

Lets be clear - staying in 7th is death of the game (no offence to fans) in the long run.

Going 8th is safest bet.

Making entirely new edition like advanced 8th is risky but it might pay off if they find a good momentum for release.

If i was making this decision (being GW) i would first change the game to 8th (safest bet) and then continue with campaign books. Its the only way for the book to sell more copies.

 kronk wrote:
People buying recasts are going for big tanks, not Torsos.

I actually asked a pal of mine about this. You're wrong. Though heavy tanks are still big ticket items even from recasters, the thing that sells the most atm: DKoK Infantry. Oh, and Elysian stuff now.

Glumy wrote:

 griffen127 wrote:
Any rumors when the next HH book will drop?

I wouldnt be surprised if they dropped the new book and first change HH to 8th edition. Or maybe even wait for like 1,5 or even 2 years untill people get bored with 8th 40k and release entirelly new HH edition combining best features of 7th and 8th (like advanced 8th).

Lets be clear - staying in 7th is death of the game (no offence to fans) in the long run.

Going 8th is safest bet.

Making entirely new edition like advanced 8th is risky but it might pay off if they find a good momentum for release.

If i was making this decision (being GW) i would first change the game to 8th (safest bet) and then continue with campaign books. Its the only way for the book to sell more copies.

Thankfully, for now, FW disagree with you, hence why they're putting out their own 7-based rulebook.

I might, might have trusted Alan Bligh to salvage something viable from the utter mess of 8th, but with the state the team is in at the moment - depleted to handle Specialist Games, still dealing with the death of their friend and colleague, trying to bring new hires up to speed, trying to meet their existing commitments for book releases - I have zero confidence 8th HH would be even playable, let alone fun to play. More than that though, this is not like 6th to 7th, 8th is a paradigm shift and it's a really garbage move to make such a shift when a decent amount of stuff still doesn't have rules in the existing system yet. By all means, once the Heresy is finished, put out a "nuHeresy" edition using 8th as the basis for those people who don't really play Heresy and just want to use the armies against 40K armies, but until then they should focus on finishing the game they started and people have spent small fortunes on.

If the price of that is a few shoulderpads, well, that sucks, but it's well worth paying IMO.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Thankfully, for now, FW disagree with you, hence why they're putting out their own 7-based rulebook.

Everything i have written is completely unrelated with what i personally like or dislike. Business decisions must be based on hard data.

From what i understand and what we can see Horus Heresy is having a decline. Sticking with Horus Heresy 7th edition was partly because half of the community wanted a continuation and partly because to change all the rules would take time. They had to do something. They chose sticking with 7th for now which i can understand.

However as this might have been a safe decision not so long ago we can see that it is bad for the popularity of the game in the long run. I believe they dont have a choice and sometime soon (soon actually means - in a good time when people might be a little fed up with 40k and would like something new to shake things up) they will have to change the edition. Perhaps make a conversion to 8th or make entirely new "mature" ruleset.

 Yodhrin wrote:
I might, might have trusted Alan Bligh to salvage something viable from the utter mess of 8th, but with the state the team is in at the moment - depleted to handle Specialist Games, still dealing with the death of their friend and colleague, trying to bring new hires up to speed, trying to meet their existing commitments for book releases - I have zero confidence 8th HH would be even playable, let alone fun to play.

What we personally like or dislike doesnt matter as GW being a company have to make decisions based on hard data. If the team is depleted to work on other projects this might mean that Horus Heresy stopped being as profitable as it was during the 7th edition 40k. If they want Horus Heresy to be more profitable they have to release a newer ruleset. Otherwise the game will die... eventually.

 Yodhrin wrote:
More than that though, this is not like 6th to 7th, 8th is a paradigm shift and it's a really garbage move to make such a shift when a decent amount of stuff still doesn't have rules in the existing system yet.

That is why they chose 7th for now - safe move based on the outrage. However it wont work in the long run and in order to sell more copies of the next big book they should change the edition. I would be really surpised if the next book will sell in comparable amount and they have to see it too. If i was FW i would concentrate first on edition change and then release the next big book.

 Yodhrin wrote:
By all means, once the Heresy is finished, put out a "nuHeresy" edition using 8th as the basis for those people who don't really play Heresy and just want to use the armies against 40K armies, but until then they should focus on finishing the game they started and people have spent small fortunes on.

Minis have to sell. Heresy sold better because 7th 40k was a mess. Actually the approach youre talking about is better for every one of us Heresy fans. It means while these players collecting a Legion to play against his friends Orks it is still another player to play with.

 Yodhrin wrote:
If the price of that is a few shoulderpads, well, that sucks, but it's well worth paying IMO.

The price of staying in one place and not moving forward is death. It might be a slow death but is death nonetheless.

I also wonder how much of a factor are Primaris? Personally I’ll never buy another stumpy old marine again.

I'm just waiting for them to (maybe, hopefully... probably not...) release a campaign book with Minotaurs in it so I can get an official Chapter Tactic. Sure, being able to choose freely is great, but it feels a bit like cheating at the same time when Salamanders is so good.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I also wonder how much of a factor are Primaris? Personally I’ll never buy another stumpy old marine again.

Same here. I was starting a HH army towards the end of 7th. A combination of the decision to stay with the old rules and the release of Primaris made me completely shelve all my plans. It didn't help that everyone in my group who was starting to collect HH just stopped dead because of the rules decision. I've not even heard HH mentioned since...

At this point, with at least 2 more books to go to complete the HH legions and a much reduced release frequency, might they skip 8th edition altogether and just wait on 9th?

If FW rereleases all the HH things for 8th in 2 years, and then GW prime drops 9th within a year of that, they are right back to an out dated HH series.

Just a thought.

Glumy wrote:


From what i understand and what we can see Horus Heresy is having a decline.

we can see that it is bad for the popularity of the game in the long run.

If they want Horus Heresy to be more profitable they have to release a newer ruleset. Otherwise the game will die... eventually.

.

And your evidence for any of these assertions is...?

I'm not even a HH player, but I'm getting pretty sick of people declaring that 30k is dead or dying because their anecdotal experience is of more people playing 8th, yet all the while HH events spring up around the globe and are hugely popular.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I also wonder how much of a factor are Primaris? Personally I’ll never buy another stumpy old marine again.

It will and won't be, for everyone with your attitude towards them, there seems to be someone like me who won't touch them with a bargepole, considering their fluff to be abominable and that regular marines still offer much more variety on the tabletop with wargear and unit types, not to mention modelling opportunities (despite GWs arbitrary wargear restrictions of late). Want an HQ with an axe and shield? Can't do that with Primaris.


Primaris and 8th are the new shiny and so currently draw a lot of attention, their gloss will diminish as time passes.

 sockwithaticket wrote:

It will and won't be, for everyone with your attitude, there's someone like me who won't touch them with a bargepole, considering their fluff to be abominable and regular marines still offering much more variety on the tabletop with wargear and unit types, not to mention modelling opportunitis (despite GWs arbitrary wargear restrictions of late). Want an HQ with an axe and shield? Can't do that with Primaris.

And primaris are even scaled wrong as a space marine so worthless for 30k which are space marines and not primaris. Unless GW retcons things and primaris marines were always the ones that fought in hh.

People are thinking conspiracy theories. People don't want to pay close to 100£ for 20 weaponless infantry models when for less money you can get 30 with weapons, 2 characters and dreadnought. Yes some likely buy but mostly I bet for basic infantry it's the plastic. When only part of infantry will be bought shoulder pads you can imagine how small amount sale potential for mk2 shoulder pads are.

If MKII plastics ever come up you there's chance that the shoulder pads come back as well.

 sockwithaticket wrote:
And your evidence for any of these assertions is...?

This is actually quite easy to assume. I dont have the hard data but it seems pretty obvious mostly because:

1) Horus Heresy design team got reduced
2) After release of 8th many people sold or stopped working on their HH armies after learning the game is sticking with 7th.

Those are not evidences of the system thriving but rather diminishing.

 sockwithaticket wrote:
I'm not even a HH player, but I'm getting pretty sick of people declaring that 30k is dead or dying because their anecdotal experience is of more people playing 8th, yet all the while HH events spring up around the globe and are hugely popular.

Ofcourse there will be events sprouting. They might be even popular just like there are guys still playing 2nd edition or people coming to Amiga fandom weekends.

However the popularity of the Horus Heresy (in the long run) as a system is based sorely on the input of new players. Its a niche of a niche. Now i dont have hard data but i would assume in the long run something has to be done or the system will die. Now we have 2 options:
1) go 8th as a safer option
2) go completely new edition

If you want new books with good quality content (fluff, graphics, number of pages) the only possibility is to attract new players. HH in its current form will not do it as well as renewing the Horus Heresy. So in order for FW to sell more books they should go with new edition first.

Glumy wrote:
However the popularity of the Horus Heresy (in the long run) as a system is based sorely on the input of new players. Its a niche of a niche. Now i dont have hard data but i would assume in the long run something has to be done or the system will die. Now we have 2 options:
1) go 8th as a safer option
2) go completely new edition

If you want new books with good quality content (fluff, graphics, number of pages) the only possibility is to attract new players. HH in its current form will not do it as well as renewing the Horus Heresy. So in order for FW to sell more books they should go with new edition first.

You assume you can't get new players with HH rules as it is. 8th ed isn't some magic button that gets new customers.

You are making tons of assumptions but zero proof.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 kronk wrote:
People buying recasts are going for big tanks, not Torsos.

I actually asked a pal of mine about this. You're wrong. Though heavy tanks are still big ticket items even from recasters, the thing that sells the most atm: DKoK Infantry. Oh, and Elysian stuff now.

I certainly could be wrong, I am willing to admit. If your pal is not employed by one of the Russian or Chinese recasters, then how would he know what the big sellers are? Otherwise, it’s just his anecdotal evidence from his local group. MY anecdotal evidence is the people at AdeptiCon I have overheard bragging about their Titan, their super heavy tanks, and their greater daemons.

Just my 2 cents.

tneva82 wrote:
You assume you can't get new players with HH rules as it is. 8th ed isn't some magic button that gets new customers.

You can. Ofcourse you can. Just like you can introduce new players to 2nd edition or Amiga programming. It happens. Perhaps not enough to release a good quality 2nd edition with army books or a new Amiga computer but it certainly happens.

tneva82 wrote:
You are making tons of assumptions but zero proof.

I am basing on 2 observations:
1) Stagnation and even regression of the Horus Heresy system. Regression because people sell their armies.
2) Horus Heresy team got reduced.

I wouldnt be at all surprised if the new book got stalled for a new edition. We will see.

That stinks. My Death-Guard was all MK2 and Torso/Head/Shoulder upgrades :(

 kronk wrote:
At this point, with at least 2 more books to go to complete the HH legions and a much reduced release frequency, might they skip 8th edition altogether and just wait on 9th?

If FW rereleases all the HH things for 8th in 2 years, and then GW prime drops 9th within a year of that, they are right back to an out dated HH series.

Just a thought.

I don't see how they'll ever bring HH in line with 40K again. Look at what a challenge it is for them to get the black books out on time. Great googly-moogly, look at what a titanic struggle it is for them to release badly-needed FAQs and errata. And as you point out, even if they dropped everything they're working on to update everything in the game, that development time would probably bring us to the start of a new edition of 40K anyway.

If Alan Bligh was still with us and Specialist Games weren't driving the bus at FW, maybe the drive and manpower would be there to make an update happen. Or even make a new, more divergent version that borrows from 7th and 8th. But I think we're going to end up with 7th edition for eternity. Which makes me think of those grumpy old grognards at historicals conventions playing long-dead game systems. Fortunately, that's where the community has stepped in.

Regarding events, they're doing quite well and will probably continue to do so, since it's getting harder for some folks to find regular HH gaming locally.

 Jadenim wrote:
I hope Fires didn’t have Elysians in it, otherwise another rewrite might be on the cards...

Nope. Skitarii were to play the role of GEQ for the story from what was being mentioned.

 gorgon wrote:

I don't see how they'll ever bring HH in line with 40K again. Look at what a challenge it is for them to get the black books out on time. Great googly-moogly, look at what a titanic struggle it is for them to release badly-needed FAQs and errata. And as you point out, even if they dropped everything they're working on to update everything in the game, that development time would probably bring us to the start of a new edition of 40K anyway.

If Alan Bligh was still with us and Specialist Games weren't driving the bus at FW, maybe the drive and manpower would be there to make an update happen. Or even make a new, more divergent version that borrows from 7th and 8th. But I think we're going to end up with 7th edition for eternity. Which makes me think of those grumpy old grognards at historicals conventions playing long-dead game systems. Fortunately, that's where the community has stepped in.

Regarding events, they're doing quite well and will probably continue to do so, since it's getting harder for some folks to find regular HH gaming locally.

I agree with everything you wrote. I also dont think update will be easy. But if they want Horus Heresy to sell (dont they? I do) they have to update the rules eventually. Since they just released a Age of Darkness Rulebook for 7th they can wait for like 1,5+ years untill they can think and start to update the rules to something new. Just enough time for people to slowly lose interest in 8th and wanting something more to shake things up.

Also people shouldnt look at those playing Legions against 40k races with disdain. It can only bolster the community with new people you can play with. With this a nich in a niche suddenly becomes a little more open.

tneva82 wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Indeed. One if the joys of HH was being able to model your marines to look distinctly different from other legions, not just painting them a different colour and slapping a transfer on them. Although if you were planning on collecting Blackshields, you can’t even slap a transfer on them now.

Soooooo...How many MKII armours your army contains? Hopefully more than 0 since you seems to disagree with their decision.

It's not just Mark 2 though is it. All the Mark 4 bodies are going away too, which I would argue make up the majority of people's armies.

Glumy wrote:

 sockwithaticket wrote:
And your evidence for any of these assertions is...?

This is actually quite easy to assume. I dont have the hard data but it seems pretty obvious mostly because:

1) Horus Heresy design team got reduced
2) After release of 8th many people sold or stopped working on their HH armies after learning the game is sticking with 7th.

Those are not evidences of the system thriving but rather diminishing.

 sockwithaticket wrote:
I'm not even a HH player, but I'm getting pretty sick of people declaring that 30k is dead or dying because their anecdotal experience is of more people playing 8th, yet all the while HH events spring up around the globe and are hugely popular.

Ofcourse there will be events sprouting. They might be even popular just like there are guys still playing 2nd edition or people coming to Amiga fandom weekends.

However the popularity of the Horus Heresy (in the long run) as a system is based sorely on the input of new players. Its a niche of a niche. Now i dont have hard data but i would assume in the long run something has to be done or the system will die. Now we have 2 options:
1) go 8th as a safer option
2) go completely new edition

If you want new books with good quality content (fluff, graphics, number of pages) the only possibility is to attract new players. HH in its current form will not do it as well as renewing the Horus Heresy. So in order for FW to sell more books they should go with new edition first.

The team hasn't been reduced. The man driving the creative direction of the Heresy sadly died and so, as Forgeworld have explicitly stated at events, they pressed pause on the Heresy while someone else got ready to take on that role. Games Workshop, rather than having staff sit around doing nothing, re-tasked Forgeworld teamsters who had been doing HH work with Specialist Games stuff.

Again, you're making baseless assertions. I've seen peope here and elsewhere online say that 8th killed their interest in 40k and pushed them to HH exclusively as well as people saying the exact opposite. All that is just random anecdotes that doesnt mean much.

Comparing HH to 2nd ed is disingenuous, one of those is an actual current ruleset you can purchase direct from the company while the other was superceded 20 years ago.

As much as I hate close combat and the way armor worked in 7th, I don't think 8th is a good fit for Horus Heresy right now. Some of the 8th Ed rules outright suck, and Forgeworld would have to completely overhaul the Legions to account for the differences and rebalance them. They'd be better off making their own set of rules that streamline things a bit.

 zend wrote:
As much as I hate close combat and the way armor worked in 7th, I don't think 8th is a good fit for Horus Heresy right now. Some of the 8th Ed rules outright suck, and Forgeworld would have to completely overhaul the Legions to account for the differences and rebalance them. They'd be better off making their own set of rules that streamline things a bit.

As a Drop Pod oriented Terror Assault player - AGREED.

Available at Warhammer Fest:







Plus a few other mugs and, of course, alpharius

No Necromunda pets or the Robot? makes me sad was main thing I was actually going to buy there outside of 1 weapon pack.

How long after do these show up at WHW? Same time as general release?

 sockwithaticket wrote:
The team hasn't been reduced. The man driving the creative direction of the Heresy sadly died and so, as Forgeworld have explicitly stated at events, they pressed pause on the Heresy while someone else got ready to take on that role. Games Workshop, rather than having staff sit around doing nothing, re-tasked Forgeworld teamsters who had been doing HH work with Specialist Games stuff.

That is what i call a reduction of the team. You dont reduce the HH team if the system sells. Maybe Alan's death indeed had something to do with it but it cannot be proven because 8th edition was released at the same time. Yeah... i think Alan would try to push the 8th edition (i read a rumour about him wanting this) because i believe he understood what i write right now - game would have to be updated sooner rather than later in order to sell as much as before. He sadly died. Game got stuck in 7th edition because some of the community wanted this and it was a safe option. But in doing so it also got stuck in stagnation mode. Perhaps even dwindle.

Maybe the HH team didnt really know how it would work out in the end by choosing to stay...

 sockwithaticket wrote:
Again, you're making baseless assertions. I've seen peope here and elsewhere online say that 8th killed their interest in 40k and pushed them to HH exclusively as well as people saying the exact opposite.

Searching the internet i can see people believing in the flat earth. There are also those that believe the earth has a round shape. There is more of the latter.

 sockwithaticket wrote:
All that is just random anecdotes that doesnt mean much.

Well... Just because you dont like to hear it or maybe you have a different experience in your own individual area (but you said you dont even play 30k so...) doesnt change the truth.

 sockwithaticket wrote:
Comparing HH to 2nd ed is disingenuous, one of those is an actual current ruleset you can purchase direct from the company while the other was superceded 20 years ago.

Yeah you can buy the rules. During the 7th 40k edition it was easier to get someone to play Heresy because both games shared the basic rules. Nowadays its just harder for someone to switch because this common ground is no more. Yes, you have individuals wanting to play 7th edition. Perhaps they are even right saying its a better ruleset. It doesnt matter however - what matters is that 8th edition is more common, prevalent and just easier to find games. It now takes a special kind of person to get to know the HH ruleset and who wants to play it and in order for the game to live you need new players (also if you want fat nice books full with content - popularity). That is why the comparision to 2nd edition is for me very good. Actuality of the rules dont change the fact that both system nowadays (2nd and HH) thrive on this same sort of special kind of players (like me).

I say HH can only be revitalized by making a new edition. It would be best ofcourse if more of the basic models were available in plastic. If i was a designer i would wait with releases of big books and slowly make a good 8th edition conversion.

 zedmeister wrote:
Available at Warhammer Fest:

Spoiler:

And in the last chance bin a year or two from now? :( Either way, the Alpha Legion stuff looks quite nice. They pulled off the scales nicely IMO especially when compared to the horrible fur on the Space Wolves.

Glumy wrote:

 sockwithaticket wrote:
The team hasn't been reduced. The man driving the creative direction of the Heresy sadly died and so, as Forgeworld have explicitly stated at events, they pressed pause on the Heresy while someone else got ready to take on that role. Games Workshop, rather than having staff sit around doing nothing, re-tasked Forgeworld teamsters who had been doing HH work with Specialist Games stuff.

That is what i call a reduction of the team. You dont reduce the HH team if the system sells. Maybe Alan's death indeed had something to do with it but it cannot be proven because 8th edition was released at the same time. Yeah... i think Alan would try to push the 8th edition (i read a rumour about him wanting this) because i believe he understood what i write right now - game would have to be updated sooner rather than later in order to sell as much as before. He sadly died. Game got stuck in 7th edition because some of the community wanted this and it was a safe option. But in doing so it also got stuck in stagnation mode. Perhaps even dwindle.

Maybe the HH team didnt really know how it would work out in the end by choosing to stay...

Alan has been replaced on the rules side, so they were as of the Weekender back up to two rules people and I think they were looking for a third. Unless one of them left since then...

The big issue is the sculpting side, plenty of HH profiles without models. This is due to experienced sculpting resources being shifted from HH/40k FW to specialist games. Again from what I could see at the weekender they had employed a few new sculptors but they will need time to get up to speed.

The very clear message at the weekender from the actual two guys writing the rules (they did their own Q&A session), was that everything up to the Siege would stay in their 7.5 rule set. With Siege it will either:
1) Stay with 7.5
2) Move to a modified 8th
3) Move to a brand new rule set

I felt that the decision wasn't theirs to make and that somebody like Tony or main studio would be making the call, everybody in the room wanted anything but 8th. What was clear was that Siege would be a clean break from the HH books and that the existing HH books would become standalone.

One of the biggest advantages HH had was rules cross-compatability with 40k. Most HH players would probably choose a growing community over staying with an old rule set that doesn't do anything to draw 40k players in. This is a tiny, tiny and very fragile niche within a niche after all and it needs every advantage it can get.

If HH goes to 8th it's dead is as simple as that. 8th is to HH what tiddly winks is to chess.

From what I have heard and read is that with Alan what they are missing is not so much a designer or in depth knowledge of the HH, but that be was a master of office politics and navigating the egos and jealously.

The main studio has been after FW's resources and staff for a long time and there was a lot of envy about the amount of autonomy FW used to have.

If the main studio does get it's hooks into FW it probably will not have long to exist. In fact I think we're starting to see that all ready.

 Mymearan wrote:
One of the biggest advantages HH had was rules cross-compatability with 40k. Most HH players would probably choose a growing community over staying with an old rule set that doesn't do anything to draw 40k players in. This is a tiny, tiny and very fragile niche within a niche after all and it needs every advantage it can get.

As you can see from some responses in the thread, HH has become a 'He-Man Eighth Edition Hater's Club' in some corners. *shrug* That also makes me think of old grognards at historical conventions. It is what it is. I think 8th is *much* better suited for large HH-style battles with titans on the table, etc. But for some it's just a matter of principle and not about what actually functions better.

 warboss wrote:
And in the last chance bin a year or two from now? :( Either way, the Alpha Legion stuff looks quite nice. They pulled off the scales nicely IMO especially when compared to the horrible fur on the Space Wolves.

While I don't think we've seen any Legion-specific units drop out, I do think that we should be prepared for a more dynamic catalog from FW. It doesn't get much more 'core' than Legion torsos and heads. Welcome to Specialist Games status. *shrug*

 gorgon wrote:

As you can see from some responses in the thread, HH has become a 'He-Man Eighth Edition Hater's Club' in some corners. *shrug* That also makes me think of old grognards at historical conventions. It is what it is. I think 8th is *much* better suited for large HH-style battles with titans on the table, etc. But for some it's just a matter of principle and not about what actually functions better.

I don't think that's a fair characterization and ignorant of the problems that lead to so many people going to HH in the first place. In 6th and 7th editions, you had a shift in tone at GW where instead of feeling like the design team told the marketing team what to do you had instead the reverse (all at the behest of the CEO who apparently took a more hands on approach to ruining his company's flagship IPs during his final years). Those "haters" switched to HH IMO because it felt more like classic 40k (as in more balanced with obvious care/effort/pride put into the work as designers). They supported it for years and they deserve a conclusion that doesn't instantly invalidate their entire rules collections and replace it with a slap dash get you by set of lists and rules for the long awaited finale of the decade long storyline.

While 8th edition fixed many issues, it didn't fix all of the complaints folks had with 40k and introduced some of its own. It's IMO an improvement over 7th but something that I'm ambivalent towards isn't too high praise compared to something that I actively disliked in the grand scheme of things. And, just in case you try to lump me in with the "haters", I've played just as many HH games as I have 8th edition.. one of each. I've got no dog in this fight either way but I don't want to see dedicated fans crapped on yet again in this supposed era of NuGW (which is really just a return to old GW prior to 6th/7th edition and certainly not some altruistic benevolent corporate entity).

 gorgon wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
One of the biggest advantages HH had was rules cross-compatability with 40k. Most HH players would probably choose a growing community over staying with an old rule set that doesn't do anything to draw 40k players in. This is a tiny, tiny and very fragile niche within a niche after all and it needs every advantage it can get.

As you can see from some responses in the thread, HH has become a 'He-Man Eighth Edition Hater's Club' in some corners. *shrug* That also makes me think of old grognards at historical conventions. It is what it is. I think 8th is *much* better suited for large HH-style battles with titans on the table, etc. But for some it's just a matter of principle and not about what actually functions better.

Probably more a case of many HH players being desperate to avoid having to buy all the books again for 8th (especially given the speed FW turns over re-writes) than any real hatred for 8th

 warboss wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

As you can see from some responses in the thread, HH has become a 'He-Man Eighth Edition Hater's Club' in some corners. *shrug* That also makes me think of old grognards at historical conventions. It is what it is. I think 8th is *much* better suited for large HH-style battles with titans on the table, etc. But for some it's just a matter of principle and not about what actually functions better.

I don't think that's a fair characterization and ignorant of the problems that lead to so many people going to HH in the first place. In 6th and 7th editions, you had a shift in tone at GW where instead of feeling like the design team told the marketing team what to do you had instead the reverse (all at the behest of the CEO who apparently took a more hands on approach to ruining his company's flagship IPs during his final years). Those "haters" switched to HH IMO because it felt more like classic 40k (as in more balanced with obvious care/effort/pride put into the work as designers). They supported it for years and they deserve a conclusion that doesn't instantly invalidate their entire rules collections and replace it with a slap dash get you by set of lists and rules for the long awaited finale of the decade long storyline.

So.... you're saying it's a matter of principle, and not about what actually functions better?

Okay, let's take any further discussion regarding the future of the Horus Heresy elsewhere please, yes?

8th overall is an improvement, but the way characters work in shooting phase and the ability to choose to fall back from combat at almost no penalty is bollocks. I'd be fine with falling back if the enemy had a chance to catch them like in Fantasy or something like an updated Sweeping Advance though.

But anyways, on topic. Is the old school Landspeeder Warhammer Fest exclusive or will they be adding it to the webstore later? I really want a couple of those.

 zend wrote:
But anyways, on topic. Is the old school Landspeeder Warhammer Fest exclusive or will they be adding it to the webstore later? I really want a couple of those.

I'm a little scared of what the price tag will be.

 gorgon wrote:

 zend wrote:
But anyways, on topic. Is the old school Landspeeder Warhammer Fest exclusive or will they be adding it to the webstore later? I really want a couple of those.

I'm a little scared of what the price tag will be.

Can't be much more than the Javelim, Shurley? I'm reckoning mid £40s

Okay, I guess I don't understand the Dreadnought deal. So if I buy a Dreadnought with two weapons I get another weapon free? Or do I get another Dreadnought free. What purpose does an extra weapon serve when the Dreadnought only has two weapon hardpoints?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Okay, I guess I don't understand the Dreadnought deal. So if I buy a Dreadnought with two weapons I get another weapon free? Or do I get another Dreadnought free. What purpose does an extra weapon serve when the Dreadnought only has two weapon hardpoints?

It's somewhat awkwardly worded. Pay for the dread body and one arm, the second arm is free.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Okay, I guess I don't understand the Dreadnought deal. So if I buy a Dreadnought with two weapons I get another weapon free? Or do I get another Dreadnought free. What purpose does an extra weapon serve when the Dreadnought only has two weapon hardpoints?

Nah - buy a dread with two weapons and you get the cheapest one free.

It’s explained fully in the t&c’s:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Buy-a-fully-armed-Dreadnought-get-one-of-the-weapons-free

wana10 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Okay, I guess I don't understand the Dreadnought deal. So if I buy a Dreadnought with two weapons I get another weapon free? Or do I get another Dreadnought free. What purpose does an extra weapon serve when the Dreadnought only has two weapon hardpoints?

It's somewhat awkwardly worded. Pay for the dread body and one arm, the second arm is free.

Nicky J wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Okay, I guess I don't understand the Dreadnought deal. So if I buy a Dreadnought with two weapons I get another weapon free? Or do I get another Dreadnought free. What purpose does an extra weapon serve when the Dreadnought only has two weapon hardpoints?

Nah - buy a dread with two weapons and you get the cheapest one free.

It’s explained fully in the t&c’s:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Buy-a-fully-armed-Dreadnought-get-one-of-the-weapons-free

Okay, that makes so much more sense. I will have to look at the available Dreadnoughts. I might need to make a Mortis Dreadnought with Autocannons. Or get an autocannon Deredeo.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

wana10 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Okay, I guess I don't understand the Dreadnought deal. So if I buy a Dreadnought with two weapons I get another weapon free? Or do I get another Dreadnought free. What purpose does an extra weapon serve when the Dreadnought only has two weapon hardpoints?

It's somewhat awkwardly worded. Pay for the dread body and one arm, the second arm is free.

Nicky J wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Okay, I guess I don't understand the Dreadnought deal. So if I buy a Dreadnought with two weapons I get another weapon free? Or do I get another Dreadnought free. What purpose does an extra weapon serve when the Dreadnought only has two weapon hardpoints?

Nah - buy a dread with two weapons and you get the cheapest one free.

It’s explained fully in the t&c’s:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Buy-a-fully-armed-Dreadnought-get-one-of-the-weapons-free

Okay, that makes so much more sense. I will have to look at the available Dreadnoughts. I might need to make a Mortis Dreadnought with Autocannons. Or get an autocannon Deredeo.

One thing to remember, if you're buying multiple Dreadnoughts and their arms in a single order the website is only set up to give you the one arm for free, you'll have to get in touch with FW who'll sort it out for you to get a free arm on each Dread.

 gorgon wrote:

As you can see from some responses in the thread, HH has become a 'He-Man Eighth Edition Hater's Club' in some corners. *shrug* That also makes me think of old grognards at historical conventions. It is what it is. I think 8th is *much* better suited for large HH-style battles with titans on the table, etc. But for some it's just a matter of principle and not about what actually functions better.

Dunno. HH as is now plays out lot faster than 8th ed. I can play 2.5k HH game in 2.5h in time. Not so 8th ed.

Bigger armies, rules need to be faster. 8th ed isn't. 8th ed takes more time even though it's been artificially made so that games are mostly mattered in turns 1-2

I do not think a strict 8th edition port would work for Heresy. There is not enough granularity in 8th.

A modified version of 8th would do fine, although I think I would prefer a modified version of 5th edition more.

Annirak wrote:
This is really disappointing... I'm just starting a Salamanders army, and I was planning to use FW pads on every. single. model and torso upgrades on all sergeants. I even got a sprue of mkiii marines to make sure that the legs and arms are in keeping with the torsos.

I only have 20 of them, but if they're going away, I'm going to have to rethink things....

Edit: evidently, the mkii shoulder pads are the only ones being discontinued. Mkiii and mkiv are safe for now. The loss of torsos is a big deal for me, though. I might have to pick up another pack long before I was ready to do so.

I caved and bought another sprue of 5 torsos. At least I'll have enough to cater for 10 sergeants.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Okay, that makes so much more sense. I will have to look at the available Dreadnoughts. I might need to make a Mortis Dreadnought with Autocannons. Or get an autocannon Deredeo.

For it to work with the Deredeo, it appears that you have to buy the missile launcher.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/09/forge-world-at-the-warhammer-citadel/

The Warhammer Citadel in Grapevine Texas opens its doors in just one month’s time.

As well as being the only shop of its kind, this glorious hybrid of Warhammer store and cafe will also have the honour of being the only location in North America that will have a permanent stock of Forge World miniatures available to buy.

In fact, on the run up to the store’s Grand Opening on the 9th and 10th of June, we’re running a special promotion where you can order any Forge World item at all from our website, titanic or tiny, and have it shipped to the store for free, to pick up at the Grand Opening weekend.

Just another excuse, if any were needed, to join us for the party.

Placing your order for delivery to the event could not be simpler:

Place your order before the 14th of May to have your order shipped in time.

Following the opening weekend, the Warhammer Citadel will then have a select range of Forge World items permanently available to purchase all year round.

We hope as many of you as possible can join us for the Warhammer Citadel’s Grand Opening, and we look forward to seeing you there!

 reds8n wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/09/forge-world-at-the-warhammer-citadel/

The Warhammer Citadel in Grapevine Texas opens its doors in just one month’s time.

As well as being the only shop of its kind, this glorious hybrid of Warhammer store and cafe will also have the honour of being the only location in North America that will have a permanent stock of Forge World miniatures available to buy.

In fact, on the run up to the store’s Grand Opening on the 9th and 10th of June, we’re running a special promotion where you can order any Forge World item at all from our website, titanic or tiny, and have it shipped to the store for free, to pick up at the Grand Opening weekend.

Just another excuse, if any were needed, to join us for the party.

Placing your order for delivery to the event could not be simpler:

Place your order before the 14th of May to have your order shipped in time.

Following the opening weekend, the Warhammer Citadel will then have a select range of Forge World items permanently available to purchase all year round.

We hope as many of you as possible can join us for the Warhammer Citadel’s Grand Opening, and we look forward to seeing you there!

At the rate they're going, will there be anything forge-world left to buy?

Telemon rules are now available: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads/40k-Adeptus-Custodes-Telemon-2018.pdf

They better show something amazing tomorrow... :(

The lasstorm is a stormcannon that traded guaranteed 2d and 1 ap for double the range, and the ability to maybe roll 3s for damage.

 BaronIveagh wrote:


At the rate they're going, will there be anything forge-world left to buy?

You mean beside vast majority of their line? Less stupid hyperbole please

 BrookM wrote:
Telemon rules are now available: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads/40k-Adeptus-Custodes-Telemon-2018.pdf

Wow. The cost of the basic loadout is shockingly high. I get that a twin plasma flamer is good, but, at 120 points per arm (or 185 for both) it seems massively steep.

However, 12 str 8, -3, D3 dmg shots with 5/10 str 5, -2, 1 dmg shots for 310 points potentially seems tasty. It also fills the lack of reliable “high” str shots problem Custodes can face. If I wanted more CC ability I’d just take the other dreadnought or more bikes/infantry. You also don’t gain an extra attack for 2 CC weapons or anything, just a re-roll wound rolls of 1.

Points wise for the shooting side of things, I think it is pretty decent when compared to other options – considering it has 15 wounds, T8, 2+/4++/6+++. CC wise, 405 points is just waaaay too much.


Can't wait to see the Galatus now!

Guess I build my Telemon tonight, question is do I replace 1 arm or go full gun platform and replace both?

If you’re playing for a laugh, rule of cool is always the first go to.

If you want to be reasonably competitive, then, 120 points for 1 arm screams insanity.

Magnets ftw though.

SeanDrake wrote:
Guess I build my Telemon tonight, question is do I replace 1 arm or go full gun platform and replace both?

Magnetize and have all the options.

The top missile launcher is also designed with a magnet hole, so there may be more options for the dorsal weapon eventually too.

The one Telemon I have presently is locked in at Fist/Lasstorm. Guess I'll need to get a second one.

tneva82 wrote:

You mean beside vast majority of their line? Less stupid hyperbole please

Sorry, some of us are still waiting for our orders from a month ago, since we foolishly didn't buy from re-casters who, you know, actually deliver product instead of taking me for a few hundred bucks and sending.... nothing.

Forge World previewing their next HH book with an image of a marine wearing a chest and helmet that’s currently on last chance to buy.



That’s taking the actual piss

Land speeds weapon options! Also, nice Necron Titan

Good to see a Talons of the Emperor book (which is what the Custodes Codex should have been anyway). Cool for the Custodes and Sisters players.

The Talons book will include Grey Knights as well as Sisters of Silence and Custodes.

NECRON KNIGHT/TITAN/BEASTY!

Ok I'm happy now!

That Carnodon almost looks cute, I really like it.

The other stuff is generally awesome. I am surprised we are getting a new dreadnought drop pod.

'New Background' sounds like 'Retcon's Inbound'

Seriously nothing on fires? Wtf.

Can they at least release rules for the models that had rules in 7th if they are going to squat the book?

 Valentine009 wrote:
Seriously nothing on fires? Wtf.

Can they at least release rules for the models that had rules in 7th if they are going to squat the book?

I read that they are going to try and get back on to it this year or something.

I'd just assume Fires is dead at this point, don't think we'll be seeing it for a long time.

Edit: Garro on FB: "They plan to get to working on it this year. So won't be out until this time next year at best, unless there's mircles"

 Haighus wrote:
That Carnodon almost looks cute, I really like it.

The other stuff is gnerally awesome. I am surprised we are getting a new dreadnought drop pod.

Or perhaps its just a reason for me to use my....normal...useless drop pods...as drednaught drop pods....hmmm

 unmercifulconker wrote:

 Valentine009 wrote:
Seriously nothing on fires? Wtf.

Can they at least release rules for the models that had rules in 7th if they are going to squat the book?

I read that they are going to try and get back on to it this year or something.

I'd just assume Fires is dead at this point, don't think we'll be seeing it for a long time.

Edit: Garro on FB: "They plan to get to working on it this year. So won't be out until this time next year at best, unless there's mircles"

Bloody unbelievable!

 unmercifulconker wrote:

 Valentine009 wrote:
Seriously nothing on fires? Wtf.

Can they at least release rules for the models that had rules in 7th if they are going to squat the book?

I read that they are going to try and get back on to it this year or something.

I'd just assume Fires is dead at this point, don't think we'll be seeing it for a long time.

Edit: Garro on FB: "They plan to get to working on it this year. So won't be out until this time next year at best, unless there's mircles"

That is incredibly disappointing. Our army is limited as is. I have over 40 secutarii that I can do nothing with, as well as a couple thanatars.

This is possibly my favourite thing they showed:

 Ketara wrote:

Aww, ain't that cute!

Warhammer Community blog has been updated with Forgeworld previews:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/11/warhammer-fest-live-blog-2gw-homepage-post-1/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=AOSTV&utm_content=FestLiveBlog9AM

That's what all Necron things should be - giant constructs, not vehicles piloted by regular Necrons.

Damn, that dragon is gnarly. Truly a miniature from a different age.

That new Auxilia tank, not feeling it. Also curious to know why now all of the sudden they're adding in more models.

Wait, so is this Imperial Armour: All The Heresy Stuff Except The Bits I Want thingy actually coming before Fires? You'd have to assume so, otherwise they'd be previewing a book that won't show up for two years.

If so that's a genuine pisstake, because it means they had time and resources available to work on an IA book, and chose to ignore the one that was already in development and folk had been looking forward to for, at this point, actual literal years so they could do a new one instead.

Custodes and sisters of silence players have cried for it a Lot, mech players thought they had a book so were quiet.

Guess the squeaky wheel gets the oil, eh?

 Valentine009 wrote:
Seriously nothing on fires? Wtf.

Can they at least release rules for the models that had rules in 7th if they are going to squat the book?

So in the Q&A I was at for this when Tony was asked about Fires he said it was forth in a queue of four books, Talons is first, then Malevolence, then an unnamed book, then Fires, which is 2/3rds done. Tony stated that it would be ready this year, I have zero faith as four books in 7 months is a tall order for FW at this point.

I would expect Talons in the summer and Malevolence after that. Anything else would be a bonus. Tony even joked at the start that they were going to show you more things they won't actually deliver so he knows the problems. He did state the team is larger than it has ever been...

I was very disappointed with how much new stuff was shown, much had been shown fully completed back at the weekender in Feb. I would think they are massively behind...

Tony did state that some things such as Mark 2 armour will go out of stock now, but some things that have been labelled as last chance have been done so incorrectly or confusingly. He very clearly stated that if things do not sell they will not be kept in stock.

I wonder what the GK stuff is going to be. The realistic side of me says it will be just acess to the generic space marine stuff that all space marines besides GK's for some reasons have, The hopeful/wishful parts of me thinks that since we are in the "Emperor's favorites sons" IA we are going to get some of the Custode's stuff like the dreads.

Necrons? Canoptek Necrons? Giant Canoptek Necron thing from Forgeworld?

Surely I've yet to wake up because this is almost as unbelievable as Fire getting put off again.

I need 3 of those constructs, like, yesterday

It’s awesome to finally have a necron heavy that isn’t architecture (Not that I don’t love the architectural heavies, but they’ve not had decent rules in so long it’s easy to forget they exist). I kinda wish it leaned a bit more Tomb Stalker than Triarch Stalker, but that it exists at all is great.

Also ups the ever so narrow chance of eventually getting a necron faction in Titanicus once they branch out.

 BrookM wrote:
That new Auxilia tank, not feeling it. Also curious to know why now all of the sudden they're adding in more models.

Might make a good alternative to a Predator.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
That's what all Necron things should be - giant constructs, not vehicles piloted by regular Necrons.

Indeed. As I said in the tactics thread, this is my kind of warmachine.
If only the rest of the vehicles were like that, instead of flimsy boats with video game-esque weak spots.
"Shoot giant necron walker's exposed pilot for massive damage!"

Was there any news of new mechanicum bits besides the mole, knight and Scoria? Any new automata or thanatar models planned?

And any indication of a release date for Scoria?

Jenetia! What's wrong with your face!?

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Jenetia! What's wrong with your face!?

Yeah the one with mask is ok but the without mask, proportion is a thing.

But full sisters of silence army in 40k I'm so happy

Yesss, new Salamanders doors that are symmetrical! Not that I have anything against the current ones, but that is really nice.
The Alpha Legion Preator looks nice as well, might get that one and convert it for my Sallies

What a joke. FoC isn't even started yet? And it's bumped to fourth in line behind more books for marines, because who needs non-marine factions when you can make lots of gold marines? This is seriously into "fire everyone at FW for sheer incompetence" territory, especially since all the fluff components are supposedly done and updating the rules for 8th edition shouldn't take that long. Simply inexcusable.

As for the models:

SA tank is boring and pointless. I'm disappointed that they'd put out such a minimal-effort model, just gluing some random lascannon bits on the transport version.

Necron walker is pretty cool, but comes out of nowhere. Was this something that was really needed? Or is this another case of FW lacking discipline and wandering off to do random side projects instead of finishing more important things?

Gold/silver marines are all trash. Why do they get an entire book, just delete the whole model lines.

Land speeder hits the nostalgia I guess? Ugly model, but it matches the source material well and probably salvages the concept as well as possible.

Drop pod is as expected. TBH I'm surprised they made a new version of an OOP kit that went OOP because there was little reason to buy it, and didn't add anything that would make it a more appealing purchase this time around. But it's not a bad kit.

 BrookM wrote:
That new Auxilia tank, not feeling it. Also curious to know why now all of the sudden they're adding in more models.

There was talk of a Regular Imperial Army... army at the Weekender by all accounts. Since the Aurox's fluff has it as an attempt at standardising the Army's equipment it would certainly make sense for them to begin drip feeding these releases for Solar Auxilia/Militia players to see if there's still an audience for mere mortals.

I'm not really feeling it either though. It looks too much like a Predator and it seems a bit redundant when Leman Russ Annihilators are already a thing.

Regular Imperial Army for HH would be cool. My Valhallans / steel legion would find themselves repurposed very quickly.

Also the knight sized Necron thing is great.

 Peregrine wrote:


Necron walker is pretty cool, but comes out of nowhere. Was this something that was really needed? Or is this another case of FW lacking discipline and wandering off to do random side projects instead of finishing more important things?

Actually Necrons and Dark Eldar are the only major factions without a titan class unit in the FW line-up and Dark Eldar can technically pinch (and stick spikes on) an Eldar Titan. So I'd say its very much needed to bring the Necrons in line with the other major factions. Dark Eldar also need one, but honestly FW doesn't make anything much for them so that's a huge gap that should be resolved (in my view).

 Tamereth wrote:
Regular Imperial Army for HH would be cool. My Valhallans / steel legion would find themselves repurposed very quickly.

Also the knight sized Necron thing is great.

There is already an army list in 30k where you can use Imperial Guard as Imperial Army- the Imperialis Auxillia list. It is basically Imperial militia, but the huge range of planets means that ranges from people with crappy rifles worse than an autogun or lasgun, to units equipped with boltguns or extra powerful lasguns from the Dark Age of Technology.

I think the comment above was referring to specific models, rather than the list itself.

TBH I can't get too excited by the possibility of Imperial Army stuff, because I doubt it'll live up to my hopes. It's unlikely we'd get the cool techno-bearskin dudes from the Blanche concept art because they're too close to Vostroyans, and it's unlikely they'd do something genuinely out-there with the concept like the Geno Chiliad with their grav-pikes backed by heavy weapons. It'd just be another high model count, prohibitively high price-per-model army of mooks that'd get phased out after a few years when it doesn't sell enough as a result.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't think I would be.

 Yodhrin wrote:
TBH I can't get too excited by the possibility of Imperial Army stuff, because I doubt it'll live up to my hopes. It's unlikely we'd get the cool techno-bearskin dudes from the Blanche concept art because they're too close to Vostroyans, and it's unlikely they'd do something genuinely out-there with the concept like the Geno Chiliad with their grav-pikes backed by heavy weapons. It'd just be another high model count, prohibitively high price-per-model army of mooks that'd get phased out after a few years when it doesn't sell enough as a result.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't think I would be.

Well, we got the Solar Auxilia, who are both pretty awesome and new in style, and also Imperial Army (about a quarter of the total Imperial Army being Solar Auxilia-style units). If we got another new concept, it would be cool, but I think it is unlikely because we already have the main template for elite Imperial Army, and the other elite regiments are essentially unique examples from specific traditions and worlds- so-called regiments of renown. Examples being the Geno Chiliad you mention, the Lucifer Blacks, the Byzant Janizars and so on. Therefore any force created for them would be comparatievely limited. Any Imperial Guard regiment can be used to represent an Imperial Auxilia force from a world of the players choosing.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind them making Vostroyan-styled infantry simply because then it would do double-duty as Vostroyans if they were similar enough. I think the Vostoryans are basically using a Great Crusade-era theme to their equipment, perhaps something to do with their atonement for their involvement in the Heresy.

Considering Forge World are no longer bound by the realm of resin I could see them putting out at least a plastic basic trooper box, especially if Imperial Guard players could double dip into it as a 40k regiment... say, Vostroyans.

 Overread wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:


Necron walker is pretty cool, but comes out of nowhere. Was this something that was really needed? Or is this another case of FW lacking discipline and wandering off to do random side projects instead of finishing more important things?

Actually Necrons and Dark Eldar are the only major factions without a titan class unit in the FW line-up and Dark Eldar can technically pinch (and stick spikes on) an Eldar Titan. So I'd say its very much needed to bring the Necrons in line with the other major factions. Dark Eldar also need one, but honestly FW doesn't make anything much for them so that's a huge gap that should be resolved (in my view).

How titanic does titan class have to be? The gauss pylon is about the size of a knight, I think.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:


Necron walker is pretty cool, but comes out of nowhere. Was this something that was really needed? Or is this another case of FW lacking discipline and wandering off to do random side projects instead of finishing more important things?

Actually Necrons and Dark Eldar are the only major factions without a titan class unit in the FW line-up and Dark Eldar can technically pinch (and stick spikes on) an Eldar Titan. So I'd say its very much needed to bring the Necrons in line with the other major factions. Dark Eldar also need one, but honestly FW doesn't make anything much for them so that's a huge gap that should be resolved (in my view).

How titanic does titan class have to be? The gauss pylon is about the size of a knight, I think.

If you go to the community blog it says the necron construct is the size of an imperial knight

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:


Necron walker is pretty cool, but comes out of nowhere. Was this something that was really needed? Or is this another case of FW lacking discipline and wandering off to do random side projects instead of finishing more important things?

Actually Necrons and Dark Eldar are the only major factions without a titan class unit in the FW line-up and Dark Eldar can technically pinch (and stick spikes on) an Eldar Titan. So I'd say its very much needed to bring the Necrons in line with the other major factions. Dark Eldar also need one, but honestly FW doesn't make anything much for them so that's a huge gap that should be resolved (in my view).

How titanic does titan class have to be? The gauss pylon is about the size of a knight, I think.

Yeah, but it's not a mobile warmachine like titans and knights are. It's just a big immobile turret that's really good at killing titans. It's hardly the same.

"Necrons lack a knight equivalent" is a different argument than "Necrons lack a titan class unit". You're certainly not going to see any arguments from me against the existence of this new walker, I like it a lot.

 Peregrine wrote:
Gold/silver marines are all trash. Why do they get an entire book, just delete the whole model lines.

Jesus you're grumpy.

We get that you're not a fan of Marines, but you're so fething selfish that you want them removed from the game?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Gold/silver marines are all trash. Why do they get an entire book, just delete the whole model lines.

Jesus you're grumpy.

We get that you're not a fan of Marines, but you're so fething selfish that you want them removed from the game?

Well, to be honest, I can see where he's coming from, since them being playable is a radical departure from previous editions fluff.

When your army’s units are constantly going on last chance to buy, to be replaced by more units that we already have to many of, I think it’s acceptable to be a little bit grumpy.

Obviously, not advocating for deleting the model lines. I’d rather they just freeze all development of new stuff until the old stuff is finished.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
We get that you're not a fan of Marines, but you're so fething selfish that you want them removed from the game?

Yep. Gold marines are terrible models with incredibly stupid fluff and rules that are essentially "WE ARE THE BESTEST MARINES WERE JUST LIKE THE BEST MARINES BUT BETTER AT EVERYTHING" fanboy trash from the worst of the proposed rules forum. Making them in the first place was a mistake, and now they're bumping more important books (which have already been delayed for years) and driving other stuff OOP. My DKoK have rules that were thrown together on the intern's lunch break and still haven't been updated to match the new codex, and my grenadiers have been out of stock for months with vague promises of "we're fixing the molds someday". Elysians are gone entirely, and I have to keep a cash reserve at all times just in case something I might have future plans for goes on last chance to buy. But I'm so glad we have another color of space marines and a million different doors.

How can you say that Elysians are better models than Adeptus Custodes...

How do you dare!

Why can't you people accept that [This thing I like and want] is just much less popular and gives much less money to GW than [This other thing I dislike and I don't want more of it]?

I accepted that reality with my 8k points of Warhammer Fantasy greenskins after Warhammer Fantasy was killed off. I suppose the constant promise of a brigther future is what keeps you out of accepting the harsh truth.

 Galas wrote:
How can you say that Elysians are better models than Adeptus Custodes...

Easily. They are. And they certainly had much better fluff, along with rules that didn't come from the worst of the proposed rules sewer.

Why can't you people accept that [This thing I like and want] is just much less popular and gives much less money to GW than [This other thing I dislike and I don't want more of it]?

Because that's the short-sighted reasoning that leads to a game of nothing but space marines, because space marines are the single best selling product line. You have to keep a diversity of product lines even if not all of them sell as well as the top stuff, because without it you have a one-dimensional game that nobody plays anymore. Marine players already have tons of stuff and are getting more, while Tau and Admech players are waiting years to get their book and rules updates.

Oh, I absolutely agree that a diverse game is good in the long run even if not everything sells equally.

But GW is what it is, and they will do what they will do. You can accept that, give them feedback or just stay here posting the same thing again and again.

Hmmm... nevermind.


By the way, Adeptus Custodes is the first true elite army that GW makes, feels like an elite army, and actually works in the table, without flying rodent gak insane OP shenanigans like 5th Grey Knights.

 Galas wrote:

By the way, Adeptus Custodes is the first true elite army that GW makes, feels like an elite army, and actually works in the table, without flying rodent gak insane OP shenanigans like 5th Grey Knights.

What, you don't like multi wound infantry with 2++ Invulnerable saves coming out their asses?

Has anyone asked them about the possibility of "made to order' kind of thing? Or "model on demand"?

rivers3162 wrote:
Was there any news of new mechanicum bits besides the mole, knight and Scoria? Any new automata or thanatar models planned?

And any indication of a release date for Scoria?

No to all of that. Scoria hasn't changed at all from the weekender from what I could see so it should be due very soon, no idea why we are still waiting IMO.

 CragHack wrote:
Has anyone asked them about the possibility of "made to order' kind of thing? Or "model on demand"?

Somebody asked Tony that question in the Q&A session I was in, it wasn't something he had thought of before but seemed to like the idea. Warehouse space vs. sales was the clear message with why stuff was being removed from Tony.

 Looky Likey wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
Has anyone asked them about the possibility of "made to order' kind of thing? Or "model on demand"?

Somebody asked Tony that question in the Q&A session I was in, it wasn't something he had thought of before but seemed to like the idea. Warehouse space vs. sales was the clear message with why stuff was being removed from Tony.

Was there something new/intresting in Forgeworld Q&A?

 Peregrine wrote:
What a joke. FoC isn't even started yet? And it's bumped to fourth in line behind more books for marines, because who needs non-marine factions when you can make lots of gold marines? This is seriously into "fire everyone at FW for sheer incompetence" territory, especially since all the fluff components are supposedly done and updating the rules for 8th edition shouldn't take that long. Simply inexcusable.

SA tank is boring and pointless. I'm disappointed that they'd put out such a minimal-effort model, just gluing some random lascannon bits on the transport version.

Necron walker is pretty cool, but comes out of nowhere. Was this something that was really needed? Or is this another case of FW lacking discipline and wandering off to do random side projects instead of finishing more important things?

Complains about an over abundance of space marine stuff, the continues on to complain about the two non space marine releases

Sounds like its just you complaining about FOC because you specifically want that more than anything else. There is no precedent of importance given to something just because you want it more. I for one want all the Horus Heresy stuff I can get my grubby hands on, but I can at least understand the intermittent releases of Xeno, Hobbit, and specialist game items. I may not care for it as much, but Im not gonna raise hell and call for burning down the whole model line.

Also, Custodes are not Space Marines.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:

Also, Custodes are not Space Marines.

I agreed with you up to this point. Let's be honest for a moment, Yes they are, there's a difference of fluff, but basically they're Super Special Custom Space Marines.

Even GW says they’re Marines for all intents and purposes.

Okay, back on topic now please, this is NOT the thread for that sort of thing.

 Verviedi wrote:
Even GW says they’re Marines for all intents and purposes.

Spoiler:

Awesome! Top left corner, first glimpse at female Marines.

 Omega-soul wrote:

 Looky Likey wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
Has anyone asked them about the possibility of "made to order' kind of thing? Or "model on demand"?

Somebody asked Tony that question in the Q&A session I was in, it wasn't something he had thought of before but seemed to like the idea. Warehouse space vs. sales was the clear message with why stuff was being removed from Tony.

Was there something new/intresting in Forgeworld Q&A?

Very little if you had seen the output from the recent HH Weekender, Krole looking complete was my biggest surprise, the new IM/SA tanks a small surprise, and the Talons of Emperor being *soon* was a big surprise especially as it will include GK in the book. They did say it would be codex like rather than like a IA book, I think would be a good approach from FW to start doing codexes if the smaller books means a faster turnaround.

 Looky Likey wrote:

 Omega-soul wrote:

 Looky Likey wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
Has anyone asked them about the possibility of "made to order' kind of thing? Or "model on demand"?

Somebody asked Tony that question in the Q&A session I was in, it wasn't something he had thought of before but seemed to like the idea. Warehouse space vs. sales was the clear message with why stuff was being removed from Tony.

Was there something new/intresting in Forgeworld Q&A?

Very little if you had seen the output from the recent HH Weekender, Krole looking complete was my biggest surprise, the new IM/SA tanks a small surprise, and the Talons of Emperor being *soon* was a big surprise especially as it will include GK in the book. They did say it would be codex like rather than like a IA book, I think would be a good approach from FW to start doing codexes if the smaller books means a faster turnaround.

I wouldn't say it is a hugely new approach either- IA 1, 2 and 13 are basically just fat Codices, fat simply because there are a lot of units available. The campaign books are different only in that they have all the fluff and campaign rules. Take those out, and most of them would be Codex-sized. I do like the fluff though...

 Haighus wrote:
I wouldn't say it is a hugely new approach either- IA 1, 2 and 13 are basically just fat Codices, fat simply because there are a lot of units available. The campaign books are different only in that they have all the fluff and campaign rules. Take those out, and most of them would be Codex-sized. I do like the fluff though...

Those felt closer to the indexes than codexes as they weren't really cohesive uniquely themed armies like the later IA books or a codex. Based on what they said this will be closer to an actual codex with some fluff, chapter tactics, strategums and the like.

 Looky Likey wrote:

 Haighus wrote:
I wouldn't say it is a hugely new approach either- IA 1, 2 and 13 are basically just fat Codices, fat simply because there are a lot of units available. The campaign books are different only in that they have all the fluff and campaign rules. Take those out, and most of them would be Codex-sized. I do like the fluff though...

Those felt closer to the indexes than codexes as they weren't really cohesive uniquely themed armies like the later IA books or a codex. Based on what they said this will be closer to an actual codex with some fluff, chapter tactics, strategums and the like.

Good point. The old IAs did have some army lists, but full strategum and so on options in an IA would be cool.

My sister's would like some strategums and the ability to actually use detachments and generate CP's.
I have a funny feeling my sisters might have some new toys once this book comes out.

I wonder if any of these books will contain the Trader Militant list they promised back in the first few HH books?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
That's what all Necron things should be - giant constructs, not vehicles piloted by regular Necrons.

Indeed.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
"Necrons lack a knight equivalent" is a different argument than "Necrons lack a titan class unit". You're certainly not going to see any arguments from me against the existence of this new walker, I like it a lot.

Only issue I have with it is that it looks so much like it`s simply a triarch stalker with extra legs.

Btw I love that art of Xun'bakyr. I wish she would get a model.

Forgeworld and Specialist Games Open Day tickets are up:

THATS THE GIANT ROBOT WHOS BEEN GATHERING DUST ON MY SHELF FOR TWO YEARS BECAUSE HE HAS NO RULES AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

do it forgeworld. Do the fires of cyraxus thing, I dare you I double dare you motherforger, say Triaros Armored Conveyor again.