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Post by: zend
Huh. I started the how to play video, and the way tiles are used is neat. I was disappointed by their size and the fact that they're hex tiles, but the rules are built around it by allowing multiple enemies in a single hex and as someone else mentioned everything moved fairly slow.
Also the minis are just great. Obsidius and the renegade Guardsmen are top notch.
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Post by: Ghaz
 reds8n wrote:https://twitter.com/dariushinks/status/1060497445870882816
Sweet cheese and crackers. I’ve just received a copy of a limited ed 40k novel I’ve got coming out this month. It’s the best looking thing I’ve EVER seen. Jaw dropping design work by BL. So, so cool. I wish I could show it but I don’t think it’s announced until the weekend.
I believe this is a tie-in/related book.
see also :
https://www.amazon.de/Warhammer-40-000-Die-Schwarze-Festung/dp/1781933189
There are those in the great expanse of the galaxy that seek profit wherever it is to be found: the deal makers, the opportunists and explorers – the Rogue Traders. Granted power by an ancient charter, sanctioned by the Emperor Himself, these scoundrels, entrepeneurs and adventurers roam the galaxy in search of fortune and glory. None perhaps are as hungry for these twin-vices as Janus Draik. All but disowned by his wealthy family, regarded as a wayward son of ill repute and little potential, Draik knows he must restore his fortunes soon or his misadventures will see him destitute and discarded.
So it is then that when he finds a truly exceptional prize, one that will return him to his deserved station, Draik recruits a crew of fellow treasure seekers and sets them to the task. Draik's obsession is all-consuming, and he will risk everything to obtain his prize and its many secrets, including his life or even that of his crew…
ABOUT THIS EDITION
– 368-page hardback
– Includes addition short story 'Talisman of Vaul' and author introduction
– Original cover art included inside
– Each copy is individually signed and numbered
– Limited to just 1,250 copies
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Post by: Tyranid Horde
That's actually quite a nice hardback cover. I'm interested in the Talisman of Vaul short story but I'm sure that'll appear somewhere else.
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Post by: BaronIveagh
I like how there's now a faction keyword for the MEN OF IRON.
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Post by: Ghaz
I'll be very, very sad if we don't see a full army of these Chaos Beastmen in the near future. I think they're my favorite models in the entire Blackstone Fortress box...
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Post by: WholeHazelNuts
Gameplay reminded me of the old Advanced Space Crusade - where you play out the combat on a generated board, but move using cards through the duct system etc.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
 Ghaz wrote:I'll be very, very sad if we don't see a full army of these Chaos Beastmen in the near future. I think they're my favorite models in the entire Blackstone Fortress box...
Probably not a full army, but easily a unit, probably as Khorne infantry.
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Post by: Gordy2000
Not a bad price for what you get. Hilariously it’s $50 (£25) cheaper than Speed Freeks here and appears to have significantly more content (certainly models-wise)
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
$250 was the listed OZ price, so I'm guessing that was either a mistake, or the website's Kiwi price is wrong.
Either way, I'm sure NZ has discounters, so just buy it from them...
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Post by: Ghaz
 MajorWesJanson wrote: Ghaz wrote:I'll be very, very sad if we don't see a full army of these Chaos Beastmen in the near future. I think they're my favorite models in the entire Blackstone Fortress box...
Probably not a full army, but easily a unit, probably as Khorne infantry.
Maybe I'll just use them as Khorne Berzerkers...
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Post by: streetsamurai
hmm, not a big fan of the facial surgery beastmen got
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Post by: Zethnar
It's up for $220 in the Australian store.
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Post by: Cataphract
Kind of reminds me of the Wolfman from “Monster Squad”.
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Post by: Carlovonsexron
I'm really hoping thats because these will eventually be khorngors
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Post by: Chikout
Australia and New Zealand both got slightly cheaper than usual prices than usual for this. No such luck in Japan unfortunately. Here it is the equivalent of £146.
Still tempted though. The rules look genuinely interesting and a nice step up from Silver Tower.
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Post by: JWBS
Chikout wrote:Australia and New Zealand both got slightly cheaper than usual prices than usual for this. No such luck in Japan unfortunately. Here it is the equivalent of £146.
Still tempted though. The rules look genuinely interesting and a nice step up from Silver Tower.
Why better than ST? FOr the rules? (I just bought ST, I liked the minis, not too fussed about th card stock and rules set). Or betetr value? More fun? Or something else?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Original listed price for Oz was AUD$265 (and for the Kiwi's it was over NZ$300!).
It being lower is a shock.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Now I have this weird desire to paint them up like Teen Wolf. 
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Post by: Chikout
JWBS wrote:Chikout wrote:Australia and New Zealand both got slightly cheaper than usual prices than usual for this. No such luck in Japan unfortunately. Here it is the equivalent of £146.
Still tempted though. The rules look genuinely interesting and a nice step up from Silver Tower.
Why better than ST? FOr the rules? (I just bought ST, I liked the minis, not too fussed about th card stock and rules set). Or betetr value? More fun? Or something else?
From watching a couple of videos it looks like they have taken the core of silver tower, layered in more role-playing elements from the original warhammer Quest and and improved the replayability. It just looks like a more complete package than Silver Tower which I enjoyed for what it was.
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Post by: cole1114
BOLS got their hands on the box, and opened the secret envelope. They didn't say what's in it, just that
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Post by: streetsamurai
Damn this game seems to be pretty much what I've been waiting for all these years. there is a few things that I don't like (coloured plastic, lack of a big end boss, ur ghoul are ugly and stiff as frag, flamer/chainsaw is a lot more uglier than a plain old eviscerator) but these are relatively trivial things compared with all the great things this game seems to have. Crazy how just a few years ago, GW released an utterly dissapointing WHQ ST that made me think they were unable to ever do another deep game, and now we have this (and necro).
I'm ordering this bad boy as soon as it becomes available on the canadian site, and I already can't wait for the expanisons
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I'd order it now, 'cept I'm waiting for my guy to get the Sector Mechanicus stuff I want in stock so I can order it all at once.
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Post by: streetsamurai
 cole1114 wrote:BOLS got their hands on the box, and opened the secret envelope. They didn't say what's in it, just that
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
MDG will. 
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Post by: streetsamurai
who's that?
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Post by: Low_K
Vlieg er Uit (shop in Holland) has the pre-order up for €106 (regular price €125)
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Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
Sales in NZ seem to be going well, the GW online order exclusive "Warrant Of Trade" (aka a bit of paper) has run out of stock already.
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Post by: ImAGeek
They’d just be Khorngors here if that was the case.
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Post by: mortar_crew
Would have been nice to have
the details for all the traitor gards...
Picture for the (rather big) sprue does not help that much
Ordered anyway.
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Post by: BrookM
Sad that the box is not hefty enough to qualify for free express shipping. 
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Post by: Carlovonsexron
Yeah, that why the important word is hope. hope is something fee, when you want something but you think or know its not really going to happen.
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Post by: Sabotage!
I know a lot of people have expressed not liking the new beastmen, but I have to say I really love them. I am a huge fan of a ton of varieties of beastmen with various bestial features. It really plays into the whole "horde of chaos mutant rabble" feeling well.
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Post by: Spectral Ceramite
Surprised on the price (with all the hype I just was reading on Community thought would be $260+) .Shadows over Hammerhal etc was $250 AU, I think Silver tower when bought was similar. Fortress is only $220 AU, instant order cause I love these types of boardgames. Seems solid.
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Post by: Chopstick
Beastmen look bad? Look at the Ur ghul, easily the worst models from that box, Our group split 4 boxes and no one want the Ur ghul. All they have to do is copy exactly the pose from the resin one.
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Post by: Flinty
W00t. Pre ordered. Christmas prezzie so I'll need to wait a bit, but it'll be worth the wait.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I don't get what the problem with the Ur-Ghul is. I mean, it looks like an Ur-Ghul. What was everyone expecting?
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Post by: Spectral Ceramite
I don't get the hate on any of the models. The chaos look ok, Im sure most buying for the Characters (well I am and the game mainly). The models as said in description are push fit (so don't expect much), so no biggy meh, I honestly want a good board game over 40k equivalent multi change models, I can get models for days, a good board game...
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Post by: Ghaz
 H.B.M.C. wrote:I don't get what the problem with the Ur-Ghul is. I mean, it looks like an Ur-Ghul. What was everyone expecting?
Agreed. It looks like what it's supposed to be so I don't see a problem with it.
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Post by: Geifer
H.B.M.C. wrote:I don't get what the problem with the Ur-Ghul is. I mean, it looks like an Ur-Ghul. What was everyone expecting?
It's probably the pose which is essentially the same for all four of them, instead of two at least recognizably different poses. I looked at the 360s and was pleasantly surprised that they didn't look as bad as I feared after the first pictures.
I am actually less impressed with some of the explorers after the 360s, and it's probably for the same reason that others have a problem with the Ur-Ghuls. The models are monopose as expected, yes, but in spite of some clever monopose models GW has made of late (just look at Shadespire), you can really see with these that they were sculpted to with sprue space in mind first and foremost, and the model's appearance second. At least that's what I think.
I'm mostly kept criticism of the Ranger to myself until now, but after seeing the model from different angles, I think I stand by what I said jokingly earlier in the thread. She looks like a model on the runway showing off the latest Ranger fashion. I really don't know how else to interpret that pose.
I think my favorite explorer is the priest who doesn't suffer from any of this, and Black Hammer on the antagonist side, although I'm not sure he counts because he has his own sprue.
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Post by: Daedalus81
Chikout wrote:JWBS wrote:Chikout wrote:Australia and New Zealand both got slightly cheaper than usual prices than usual for this. No such luck in Japan unfortunately. Here it is the equivalent of £146.
Still tempted though. The rules look genuinely interesting and a nice step up from Silver Tower.
Why better than ST? FOr the rules? (I just bought ST, I liked the minis, not too fussed about th card stock and rules set). Or betetr value? More fun? Or something else?
From watching a couple of videos it looks like they have taken the core of silver tower, layered in more role-playing elements from the original warhammer Quest and and improved the replayability. It just looks like a more complete package than Silver Tower which I enjoyed for what it was.
Yea looks to be the usual and unfortunate dynamic of Sigmar being the testing ground for 40K.
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Post by: Spectral Ceramite
After going back and reading all these comments (cause bored). It is they are gak even if don't own, focuses on some models... <removed> me. Buy it and see. If hate it that much step off. Im not a GW fan boy, I buy what want and I will buy this cause awesome price, game I like (have bought all Quest games), I like the board game aesthetic. Models, bonus (i like the look and models). For $220 Au I am an auto buy for me.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:Chikout wrote:JWBS wrote:Chikout wrote:Australia and New Zealand both got slightly cheaper than usual prices than usual for this. No such luck in Japan unfortunately. Here it is the equivalent of £146.
Still tempted though. The rules look genuinely interesting and a nice step up from Silver Tower.
Why better than ST? FOr the rules? (I just bought ST, I liked the minis, not too fussed about th card stock and rules set). Or betetr value? More fun? Or something else?
From watching a couple of videos it looks like they have taken the core of silver tower, layered in more role-playing elements from the original warhammer Quest and and improved the replayability. It just looks like a more complete package than Silver Tower which I enjoyed for what it was.
Yea looks to be the usual and unfortunate dynamic of Sigmar being the testing ground for 40K.
Gunna say if 40k had of taken the ap or rend characteristic into account would make 40k a better game today, eg not as many minus AP
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Post by: GoatboyBeta
Shadows Over Hammerhal is back in stock on the GW UK site. Hopefully BSF does well enough for GW to consider revisiting the AOS setting for a quest game, or at least re-release and support Silver Tower.
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Post by: TwilightSparkles
Wondering if GW inadvertently spoiled the Vault surprise - check the description for the limited version of the Blackstone book......
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Post by: Spectral Ceramite
GoatboyBeta wrote:Shadows Over Hammerhal is back in stock on the GW UK site. Hopefully BSF does well enough for GW to consider revisiting the AOS setting for a quest game, or at least re-release and support Silver Tower.
Hammerhal has never been oos on GW Aus (and is still in stock), Silver tower is not in stock but the addatives are still in stock. However Space hulk Generation 2 etc is not anymore and other main games. I think they make a limited release per country (language) if sold out, is out for ever, for these board games/limited releases. I order alot if sold of in french (from Canada, cause never sells well, get all the models just rules in french).
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Post by: ImAGeek
 TwilightSparkles wrote:Wondering if GW inadvertently spoiled the Vault surprise - check the description for the limited version of the Blackstone book......
Not seeing it?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Why even pay that much? Oz has discounters.
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Post by: Spectral Ceramite
I actually order from the uk and get it with shipping and the new import tax for $199AU if cheaper please post me a link
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Post by: Luciferian
I wonder if this will sell out. I've already spent my gaming budget this month otherwise I'd be all over it.
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Post by: Spectral Ceramite
 Luciferian wrote:I wonder if this will sell out. I've already spent my gaming budget this month otherwise I'd be all over it.
They have said a 2week preorder, I think they want it to sell out (have budget for it)
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Post by: Sasori
I'm a big fan of those beastmen models. I hope this means we will see some more beastman in the future. That model range needs a lot of help, and I could see what they did with the Tzeentch release and make several cross-range kits.
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Post by: Spectral Ceramite
I mean killzone scector mechanicus is still out of stock (I bought 2 when came out) idk how many months later...IDK if same but if dont pre order prob be out for awhile
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Post by: BrookM
Pre-ordered from my phone and when I got home I noticed that my pre-order also includes this:
I wish I had this when we still played Rogue Trader.
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Post by: Voss
Is paper that hard to find where you are?
Honestly it looks far too plain and unadorned for a Rogue Trader's writ.
The language is far too simple by 17th century privateering standards, let alone 41st millennium
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Post by: streetsamurai
H.B.M.C. wrote:I don't get what the problem with the Ur-Ghul is. I mean, it looks like an Ur-Ghul. What was everyone expecting?
[/quote
maybe a better pose than 4 of them looking like theyre doing a bad mannequin challenge
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Post by: Spectral Ceramite
Voss wrote:Is paper that hard to find where you are?
Honestly it looks far too plain and unadorned for a Rogue Trader's writ.
The language is far too simple by 17th century privateering standards, let alone 41st millennium
I was gunna say a similar thing...exclusive to buy, get some cheap paper with a bit of writing (in a game the emphasises plastic models...)
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Post by: Chopstick
 streetsamurai wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:I don't get what the problem with the Ur-Ghul is. I mean, it looks like an Ur-Ghul. What was everyone expecting?
maybe a better pose than 4 of them looking like theyre doing a bad mannequin challenge
Not many people care about some obsucred xenos monkey, so GW can get away giving them the most boring, soulless pose possible. Also the resin one have a lot more weird and complex muscle/bone structure than the new one.
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Post by: Spectral Ceramite
Chopstick wrote: streetsamurai wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:I don't get what the problem with the Ur-Ghul is. I mean, it looks like an Ur-Ghul. What was everyone expecting?
maybe a better pose than 4 of them looking like theyre doing a bad mannequin challenge
Not many people care about some obsucred xenos monkey, so GW can get away giving them the most boring, soulless pose possible. Also the resin one have a lot more weird and complex muscle/bone structure than the new one.
If looking at a pose and going into complex bone structure....your are stretching
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Post by: Geifer
Chopstick wrote: streetsamurai wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:I don't get what the problem with the Ur-Ghul is. I mean, it looks like an Ur-Ghul. What was everyone expecting?
maybe a better pose than 4 of them looking like theyre doing a bad mannequin challenge
Not many people care about some obsucred xenos monkey, so GW can get away giving them the most boring, soulless pose possible. Also the resin one have a lot more weird and complex muscle/bone structure than the new one.
From the perspective of people only looking for Imperial or Chaos models that may be true. For those asking for better representation of xenos, not so much.
The big issue with obscure xenos monkeys is that they are obscure, which means that these may be the only models of obscure xenos monkeys we get in a long, long time. By contrast if the latest Primaris Lieutenant sucks, you can just wait a couple of months and see if you like the next one better.
It's a valid criticism to level at a company that claims it makes the best fantasy miniatures in the world. Whether a model please the larger part of their customers or not, it is representative of GW's work. "Getting away" with a sculpt is not something that meshes with their mission statement.
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Post by: Voss
I think the big problem with the ur-ghuls is more the paint job (and the white background, which works with the other models). The models are actually fairly detailed if you look at the final pictures.
The eye sockets are pretty odd, but the musculature is rather well done. Even the paint job is good (especially the shoulder flecks), but the blue base with white overcoat (and purple with white hands) doesn't stand out at all.
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Post by: TwilightSparkles
 ImAGeek wrote: TwilightSparkles wrote:Wondering if GW inadvertently spoiled the Vault surprise - check the description for the limited version of the Blackstone book......
Not seeing it?
On a side note it does seem like some FLGS are getting the GW store freebies to use, I've seen one saying instore collections only, another in order of orders taken BUT they are breaking it up so you get one item not all of them, another charging extra but you get everything and it's still lower than rrp.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Spectral Ceramite wrote:I mean killzone scector mechanicus is still out of stock (I bought 2 when came out) idk how many months later... IDK if same but if dont pre order prob be out for awhile
Element Games got some in stock a few days ago, I know because I finally got a shipping notice after waiting 6 weeks. The core box and Sector Munitorum are still missing in action.
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Post by: ImAGeek
TwilightSparkles wrote: ImAGeek wrote: TwilightSparkles wrote:Wondering if GW inadvertently spoiled the Vault surprise - check the description for the limited version of the Blackstone book......
Not seeing it?
On a side note it does seem like some FLGS are getting the GW store freebies to use, I've seen one saying instore collections only, another in order of orders taken BUT they are breaking it up so you get one item not all of them, another charging extra but you get everything and it's still lower than rrp.
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Post by: Tastyfish
Yeah the Blackstones are the Talisman's of Vaul, and the God-killing weapon themselves. The specific Gods being killed are the Yngir Star vampires, known now as C'tan.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
ImAGeek wrote: TwilightSparkles wrote: ImAGeek wrote: TwilightSparkles wrote:Wondering if GW inadvertently spoiled the Vault surprise - check the description for the limited version of the Blackstone book......
Not seeing it?
On a side note it does seem like some FLGS are getting the GW store freebies to use, I've seen one saying instore collections only, another in order of orders taken BUT they are breaking it up so you get one item not all of them, another charging extra but you get everything and it's still lower than rrp.
Yeah, every reference to them
My personal take
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Post by: Mr Morden
I thought Blackstones were Talismans of Vaul - but thats not all of the Talismans.
Ie all Black stones are Talismans but not all Talismans are Blackstones if you see what I mean?
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Post by: Galas
Lets be honest, the pose of the Ur-Ghul is the most two dimensional and boring pose they could give them. They should have gave them some kind of gollum/sneaky predator pose.
Is not that the model are bad per se but they are like something from 2003's GW, specially compared with everything else in the box.
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Post by: zend
Yeesh, people are acting like the Ur Ghuls are as bad as the Primaris Librarian. At least they're not monopose AND $35 apiece.
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Post by: Mymearan
 zend wrote:Yeesh, people are acting like the Ur Ghuls are as bad as the Primaris Librarian. At least they're not monopose AND $35 apiece.
Well price aside, at least the Primaris Librarian is by far the best Librarian they’ve ever done, while the Ur Ghul is... not one of their best models,
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Post by: Elbows
You have a peculiar eye for Librarians if you think that's their best effort
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Post by: streetsamurai
 We're talking about this librarian? It's a pretty cool mini, whats wrong with it? A million times better than the pathetic Ur-Ghoul
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Post by: Messiah
The Primaris librarian looks really bad from the side, but really good from the front (facing the face so to speak). Its all a matter of perspective.
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Post by: Mymearan
 Elbows wrote:You have a peculiar eye for Librarians if you think that's their best effort
Yeah I have to modify my statement slightly, the one with pointy staff and cherub is better. Not by much though, the Primaris Lib is one of my favourite Space Marine models.
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Post by: Lord Perversor
Just adding a bit of info, it seems Store Freebies are an extra zip bag, 1 dealer coin with a BSF theme, and 2x posters one for a ship chart and other detailing the situation of the blackstone fortress wich it's at the NE side of Ultima Macharia even further away from the core of the Galaxy (wich it's know as an unexplored area)
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Post by: phillv85
I didn’t get the zip bag, just two posters and the poker chip.
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Post by: robbienw
The Primaris librarian looks like he is wearing a tent
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Post by: weasel_beef
Pre-ordered today at my local GW, very psyched. Looks like an awesome game. Watched the how-to video, mechanics seem fun and the models look great.
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Post by: RIPferdy
The new primaris librarian is awesome, warhammer dudes complain about everything
Most of my friends have given up on dakka, it seems like a bunch of old dudes complaining to complain
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Post by: Stormonu
Well, looks like a good bit of thought went into this game just beyond an attempt to shove a bunch of minis out the door this time, so I put in for a preorder (via e-bay; gotta get that discount!)
Watched some of the "Learn to play", looks like it will be fun.
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Post by: ArcaneHorror
I really hope that this is the beginning of Beastmen becoming a force again in 40K.
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Post by: Mothman
Im more expecting 2 "catch all" codexs
-Servants of the abyss- traitor guard, dark Mechanicus (mostly same as normal with maybe 2-3 different units each along with strategems) along with more unaligned warp beasts like beastmen, gellarpox and other mutants. Fabius bile might make sense to move to here than being in chaos codex proper. (assuming fabius continues to be unaligned and doesnt retake command of the 3rd legion as his books keep pushing him towards).
-Servants of the Imperium- Rogue traders, inquisition, small factions like squats (Im assuming they will get a necromunda gang fully in future and some might want them with 40k profiles) and ratlings.
Mainly giving them a place to pile in any small units released in these side games, forming a "catch all" faction and letting them bring back some of the smaller factions.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
I’m expecting similar, and I think they’re all but a given at this point.
Whether we’ll see everything in BSF fully transition to 40k? I’d actually say probably not.
The Elves from Silver Tower haven’t, and it was mentioned to me at the AoS open day last year that they won’t necessarily get a full army to belong to. Same with Grot Scutlings. At least, so far!
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Post by: MonkeyBallistic
I am very excited for this game. I mean the game looks cool enough, but I’m really hoping it becomes the 40k way to do Warhammer Underworlds style releases.
If GW can do small boxes of 3 to 5 push fit minis with cards as expansions for both player characters and adversaries, I’ll buy everything. I can’t think of a better way for them to start to explore all those things mentioned in the lore, but not suitable for the full 40k army treatment.
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Post by: cole1114
Slowly but surely, more and lore is trickling out. What's in the vaults, where the fortress is, slowly making its way to us.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
For what’s in the mystery envelope, please please please use spoiler tags 
Please
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Post by: cole1114
That needs to be reiterated.
But some of the lore like just where Blackstone is or Precipice's relationship to it is probably worth sharing.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
At least spoiler tags outside of the Background sub-forum
That I can happily avoid on me own. But elsewhere, pls pls pls!
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Post by: Lord Perversor
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:At least spoiler tags outside of the Background sub-forum
That I can happily avoid on me own. But elsewhere, pls pls pls!
I won't spoil much aside that apart from the info inside of the envelope it also can effect future BSF playruns, so i won't be surprised if in the future GW releases a collection of all those secrets.
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Post by: bullyboy
If the contents of envelope are not some big reveal for 40K, then I'd prefer to leave it closed and wait til I finish the game. Otherwise I think I wouldn't be able to wait that long to know what the reveal is
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Post by: AegisGrimm
Just took a look at the minis on the GW site, and while I will probably never get the game, I may have to nab the traitor Guard as they'd make really good Blood Pact for skirmish gaming.
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Post by: Strg Alt
I was quite interested in this game but sadly not all minis were my cup of tea. This means turning down the game. Here is a list of my thoughts about the minis:
Great
Robot
Traitor Guard
Beastmen
Okay
Other characters apart from Robot, Kroot & Ratlings
Robot drones
Ur-Ghul
New CSM
Bad
Kroot
Ratlings
Another thing that rubbed me the wrong way was Becca Scott presenting the game on Warhammer TV. Why? Well, before the White Knights crawl out of their holes to accuse me of being a women hater just let me explain my view. I have absolutely no problem when attractive women are active in spheres that were dominated in the past exclusively by males. An example which comes to mind is soccer. Nowadays women interview players right after the match, during sport talk-shows or even comment a whole male soccer game. This is fine as they show both competence, a sincere love for their job and provide eye candy for the audience. So in this way program directors make sure that their quota is fulfilled and I have absolutely no issue with this.
But now back to the Warhammer TV demo. I get the feeling that her excitement about the game is forced, over the top and therefore not genuine. So she is placed in this spot by GW suits to lure geeks in. I get that. I guess, if she would tone down her excitement a little bit then I would be fine with her performance. What are your thoughts about this?
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Pretty sure nobody else really cares.
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Post by: fresus
I agree Becca Scott is overacting a bit. But she's been doing the how-to-play videos for GW for a while now, so I don't think it's a surprise to see her host this one.
Why did GW choose her in the first place to do these videos? I don't know. From what I understand she does quite a lot of similar videos for other companies, and is an actress with an actual interest in board games. So it's certainly not an odd choice.
I suppose no one at WarCom had the proper skills to do it (not sure how much acting is required for that though), or maybe Becca Scott is actually renowned enough that putting her name on the video brings value to it.
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Post by: Crimson
Well, I think it is certainly telling that her performance, looks and credentials are scrutinised in way male presenters' never are...
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Post by: Voss
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7atuZxmT954kvCRXxi8klz8_RSftIB4I
She does this professionally. Game the Game is a long running series on Geek and Sundry (44 episodes so far), not including stuff like this which she does independently.
She's "placed in this spot" (no, that isn't demeaning at all) because she's one of the most qualified people to do it: she's made a business out of doing overviews and introductions to boardgames.
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Post by: drbored
fresus wrote:I agree Becca Scott is overacting a bit. But she's been doing the how-to-play videos for GW for a while now, so I don't think it's a surprise to see her host this one.
Why did GW choose her in the first place to do these videos? I don't know. From what I understand she does quite a lot of similar videos for other companies, and is an actress with an actual interest in board games. So it's certainly not an odd choice.
I suppose no one at WarCom had the proper skills to do it (not sure how much acting is required for that though), or maybe Becca Scott is actually renowned enough that putting her name on the video brings value to it.
She's got experience in the field of board games, is a great presenter, and is keeping it simple so that anyone of any age can watch the video and follow along. It's a style that may not appeal to those that prefer not to have things slowed down, but it's a style that brings gamers unfamiliar with these types of games along at a good and steady pace. Nothing is lost, no rule is overlooked, everything is explained.
Though I have a feeling if Duncan or Peachy did the same thing, fewer would complain. Something about having an extra X in their cells or whatever.
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Post by: Chopstick
fresus wrote:
Why did GW choose her in the first place to do these videos? I don't know. From what I understand she does quite a lot of similar videos for other companies, and is an actress with an actual interest in board games. So it's certainly not an odd choice.
More exposure to the non- gw customer but like Board game to general(in this case Geek and Sundry viewers). Geek and Sundry is the largest Tabletop channel on Twitch ever, with insane amount of subscribers.
Duncan and Peach, or watever GW employers do not have that kind of exposure or popularity amongs the non- gw community, nobody outside of this hobby knows who these people are, nobody outside of this hobby follow them on social media. If you are a GW customer, you knew about the game already.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Think people also need to consider the concept of marketing, and what it’s meant to achieve.
It’s not just GW. And she’s some millions of miles away from BARRY SCOTT.
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Post by: Sqorgar
 Crimson wrote:Well, I think it is certainly telling that her performance, looks and credentials are scrutinised in way male presenters' never are...
bs. You think if Wil Wheaton did the video, he wouldn't get just as much (or more) criticism? Geeks tend to be extremely critical towards those they see as fake Geeks. This has always been the case. Has nothing to do with gender. Fake enthusiasm just grates on the nerves. It seems like the Warhammer TV crew is having fun while Becca Scott seems to be screaming internally.
Edit: That being the case, I think she does a fine job. There are few things in this world that I hate more than trying to explain game rules to people who refuse to read the rulebook. Any screaming internally would be completely justified. It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it.
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Post by: BertBert
Crimson wrote:Well, I think it is certainly telling that her performance, looks and credentials are scrutinised in way male presenters' never are...
That's because women are largely still perceived as an anomaly in this hobby. It's not really surprising, but apparently a great excuse to make this about sexism.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
OK, do you lot not know who Becca Scott is?
She’s been doing Let’s Plays and How To Plays for Geek and Sundry for years. This is just GW picking up an established micro-celebrity and format and getting her to do something she would already have done but on their terms.
The over-acting and, frankly, unnecessary enthusiasm is her style and always has been, from what I can tell; no matter the game or genre.
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Post by: Flinty
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Think people also need to consider the concept of marketing, and what it’s meant to achieve.
It’s not just GW. And she’s some millions of miles away from BARRY SCOTT.
BANG AND THE HERETIC IS GONE!
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Post by: Crimson
 Sqorgar wrote: Crimson wrote:Well, I think it is certainly telling that her performance, looks and credentials are scrutinised in way male presenters' never are...
bs. You think if Wil Wheaton did the video, he wouldn't get just as much (or more) criticism? Geeks tend to be extremely critical towards those they see as fake Geeks. This has always been the case. Has nothing to do with gender. Fake enthusiasm just grates on the nerves. It seems like the Warhammer TV crew is having fun while Becca Scott seems to be screaming internally.
Men are almost never accused of being 'fake geeks' whilst women with extensive nerd credentials often are. There is absolutely no question that Becca is an board game expert. Why was no one questioning whether Duncan was hired only for his good looks, whether his enthusiasm for Imperial Knights was annoying overacting or whether Peachy even knows how to play 40K? The whole 'fake geek' thing is just hostile gatekeeping, and often based on misogyny.
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Post by: Aesthete
Placed a pre-order at my FLGS yesterday. Really looking forward to this.
As for the current hot topic of Becca Scott: personally I have no interest in watching how-to-play videos of any kind as I find them boring, but getting someone to do it who's established and who potentially brings their own audience with them makes perfect sense, IMO.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
 Flinty wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Think people also need to consider the concept of marketing, and what it’s meant to achieve.
It’s not just GW. And she’s some millions of miles away from BARRY SCOTT.
BANG AND THE HERETIC IS GONE!
A bit of wee just came out.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Some of us aren't thirsty for boobies at all costs and would rather have a skillful and genuine presenter. Which could totally have been a woman if she had any talent other than looks.
Becca Scott does not. Her forced enthusiasm is just cringy to watch. She thrives in this industry because of her gender, she was picked for the video because of her gender. GW made this about gender, not the people complaining about her.
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Post by: Crimson
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Some of us aren't thirsty for boobies at all costs and would rather have a skillful and genuine presenter. Which could totally have been a woman if she had any talent other than looks.
Becca Scott does not. Her forced enthusiasm is just cringy to watch. She thrives in this industry because of her gender, she was picked for the video because of her gender. GW made this about gender, not the people complaining about her.
No, it is pretty clear that it is people like you who make this about the gender. This is typical twisted misogynist logic, if woman is successful, it is only because of looks.
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Post by: BrookM
Back on topic please people.
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Post by: Carlovonsexron
I agree.... This seems like a non issue.
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Post by: bullyboy
Thank you.
Got mine pre-ordered and will push some of those minis to the front of the painting queue.
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Post by: drbored
So who else is going to chop the top-knot off of the Chaos leader?
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Post by: dienekes96
Dainton is the best.
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Post by: Yodhrin
Jesus, what happened to those Marines. Did they take a few days off and bring in some Stormcast to sub, or just *really* skipped leg day? o_0
It's a lovely "holding court" scene, but those Marines are downright dainty.
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Post by: Strg Alt
drbored wrote:So who else is going to chop the top-knot off of the Chaos leader?
Why is this bothering you?
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Post by: deano2099
Crimson wrote:Well, I think it is certainly telling that her performance, looks and credentials are scrutinised in way male presenters' never are...
Yup, I actually agree that the over enthusiasm in the video is insincere and annoying, but no more so than Duncan and Peachy in the same video. You really think they’ve never seen the game before and are learning to play for the first time? That they’re really that excited about the inspiration mechanic?
Though far more annoying than any of that is the director, seemingly the same one who does the Warhammer Conquest videos, who seems to go “hey, perform into this camera, then we will film you from a different one from the side.” I know it’s to break up the to camera bits but it’s horribly artificial and annoying.
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Post by: drbored
Just not a fan of the aesthetic of the top knot. I get that it's Abaddon's thing, but on other Chaos Marines it looks... goofy to me. Just personal preference.
I think that the chaos lord will look more badass as bald.
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Post by: Strg Alt
drbored wrote:
Just not a fan of the aesthetic of the top knot. I get that it's Abaddon's thing, but on other Chaos Marines it looks... goofy to me. Just personal preference.
I think that the chaos lord will look more badass as bald.
Okay, you could also try to exchange the head with a helmet version but when bald is good enough for you it won´t be necessary.
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Post by: spartiatis
drbored wrote:So who else is going to chop the top-knot off of the Chaos leader?
Most certainly i will
Totally agree with you
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Post by: Dreadclaw69
drbored wrote:
Just not a fan of the aesthetic of the top knot. I get that it's Abaddon's thing, but on other Chaos Marines it looks... goofy to me. Just personal preference.
I think that the chaos lord will look more badass as bald.
Among the Sons of Horus (who then became The Black Legion) top knots are pretty common. Just look at their units from the FW site. That being said, it's your personal preference, and ultimately your mini.
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Post by: streetsamurai
deano2099 wrote: Crimson wrote:Well, I think it is certainly telling that her performance, looks and credentials are scrutinised in way male presenters' never are...
Yup, I actually agree that the over enthusiasm in the video is insincere and annoying, but no more so than Duncan and Peachy in the same video. You really think they’ve never seen the game before and are learning to play for the first time? That they’re really that excited about the inspiration mechanic?
Though far more annoying than any of that is the director, seemingly the same one who does the Warhammer Conquest videos, who seems to go “hey, perform into this camera, then we will film you from a different one from the side.” I know it’s to break up the to camera bits but it’s horribly artificial and annoying.
She's terrible imo, but GW how to play videos are always terrible. The one for Betrayal at Calth was as bad, and she wasn't involved in it.
They try to go with the ''look how much fun we're having'' theme but it just look forced and corny
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Post by: Strg Alt
This was apparently not the case.
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Post by: Crimson
deano2099 wrote:
Though far more annoying than any of that is the director, seemingly the same one who does the Warhammer Conquest videos, who seems to go “hey, perform into this camera, then we will film you from a different one from the side.” I know it’s to break up the to camera bits but it’s horribly artificial and annoying.
Yes, that is really jarring!
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Post by: bullyboy
what part of "keep on topic" did you guys not get?
Make your own "Becca Scott" post if you want to keep discussing it, but I'd rather just read about Blackstone Fortress here.
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Post by: Sabotage!
 bullyboy wrote:what part of "keep on topic" did you guys not get?
Make your own "Becca Scott" post if you want to keep discussing it, but I'd rather just read about Blackstone Fortress here.
Agreed. All of GW's how to play videos come off as insincerely enthusiastic, so I don't really see what the issue is just because someone different is doing it. If it really bothers you and you want to watch a how to play video go watch the GMG one. I'm about half way through it and Ash does a great job (as always).
Speaking of the GMG review Ash mentions that other adventurers are alluded to the background book, what kind of stuff are you guys expecting to see in future expansions?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I dunno man. The "How to Play Blackstone Fortress" video seems like an apt subject in a thread about Blackstone Fortress.
Then again this is a site that said discussing Orktober in the Orktober thread was off topic, so what the hell do I know?
deano2099 wrote:Though far more annoying than any of that is the director, seemingly the same one who does the Warhammer Conquest videos, who seems to go “hey, perform into this camera, then we will film you from a different one from the side.” I know it’s to break up the to camera bits but it’s horribly artificial and annoying.
That bothered me the second it started.
And yes, I get it's there to add a little movement and life to what is otherwise a straight camera read, but it makes the delivery seem artificial.
As far as being forced is concerned, nah they looked like they were having fun. Peachy was in character as his Ratling duo (I love that one of them is carrying a mini-fridge!), Duncan was using his Ranger to show off to the humans (a very Eldar thing), and the Kroot was getting stuck in and eating everything (and also helping the human that hired him when said human got in too deep, which makes sense).
As for any accusations of 'fakeness', I'll say the same thing I said when I posted a summary of the video - Becca knows the rules through and through. She was being very... careful in how often she had to remind everyone what the rules were, or keep things on track. It was an exercise in diplomacy to keep things moving and make sure - as it was a 'How to play' video - that they didn't wing anything, forget anything or mess anything up whilst at the same time not look like she was nagging them or being a stickler for strict rules observance.
You can dislike her personally sure - 5m going through her Twitter feed screaming about 'the patriarchy' was enough to turn me off - but she very clearly takes her job seriously, even when Peachy kept trying his best to throw everyone off.
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Post by: Strg Alt
H.B.M.C. wrote:I dunno man. The "How to Play Blackstone Fortress" video seems like an apt subject in a thread about Blackstone Fortress.
Then again this is a site that said discussing Orktober in the Orktober thread was off topic, so what the hell do I know?
deano2099 wrote:Though far more annoying than any of that is the director, seemingly the same one who does the Warhammer Conquest videos, who seems to go “hey, perform into this camera, then we will film you from a different one from the side.” I know it’s to break up the to camera bits but it’s horribly artificial and annoying.
That bothered me the second it started.
And yes, I get it's there to add a little movement and life to what is otherwise a straight camera read, but it makes the delivery seem artificial.
As far as being forced is concerned, nah they looked like they were having fun. Peachy was in character as his Ratling duo (I love that one of them is carrying a mini-fridge!), Duncan was using his Ranger to show off to the humans (a very Eldar thing), and the Kroot was getting stuck in and eating everything (and also helping the human that hired him when said human got in too deep, which makes sense).
As for any accusations of 'fakeness', I'll say the same thing I said when I posted a summary of the video - Becca knows the rules through and through. She was being very... careful in how often she had to remind everyone what the rules were, or keep things on track. It was an exercise in diplomacy to keep things moving and make sure - as it was a 'How to play' video - that they didn't wing anything, forget anything or mess anything up whilst at the same time not look like she was nagging them or being a stickler for strict rules observance.
You can dislike her personally sure - 5m going through her Twitter feed screaming about 'the patriarchy' was enough to turn me off - but she very clearly takes her job seriously, even when Peachy kept trying his best to throw everyone off.
I agree and don´t see why this could be considered off-topic in any way. Her performance made me go to Guerilla Mini Games after listening for approx. three minutes to her presentation. I also thank you for your valuable info about her thought processes on twitter. This will ensure that I won´t waste time with any of her future presentations.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
I'll second the recommendation for Ash's video on GMG. He made it look good all by himself and I say this as someone who finds solo play completely pointless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzFF5RIGzMs
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Post by: privateer4hire
streetsamurai wrote:deano2099 wrote: Crimson wrote:Well, I think it is certainly telling that her performance, looks and credentials are scrutinised in way male presenters' never are...
Yup, I actually agree that the over enthusiasm in the video is insincere and annoying, but no more so than Duncan and Peachy in the same video. You really think they’ve never seen the game before and are learning to play for the first time? That they’re really that excited about the inspiration mechanic?
Though far more annoying than any of that is the director, seemingly the same one who does the Warhammer Conquest videos, who seems to go “hey, perform into this camera, then we will film you from a different one from the side.” I know it’s to break up the to camera bits but it’s horribly artificial and annoying.
She's terrible imo, but GW how to play videos are always terrible. The one for Betrayal at Calth was as bad, and she wasn't involved in it.
They try to go with the ''look how much fun we're having'' theme but it just look forced and corny
And to show an alternative view on the B@C video and the DWOK video, I liked them both.
it's canned to a certain level but you get an idea after a certain point that they really are talking smack with each other.
The Blackstone Fortress video was serviceable IMO.
On topic, there are a bunch of us wanting to pick this up at the FGS.
Many just want the models. I want it for the models and the game.
I'm tempted to buy as it's first coming out but i did that with Silver Tower and never could find a group who would complete the campaign.
With B@C and DWOK I was in a smaller town and found other players (since you only need one opponent for the game to work best for those) who completed those campaigns.
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Post by: Mr Morden
Having watched a number of preview or how to play videos from other games review sites - they all come across as super super enuisiastic and the game is always the best thing ever -especially if its KS related. I esepcially remember the ones about Dropfleet.....
In this case she was being paid to do so (as effectively was everyone round the table), I personally watched it all and found it interesting and useful - I also have been Peachy on a number of occassions getting frustrated that you can't seem to do anything (usually when you have done something stupid) - also the whole who attacks who rang true.
There does seem to be alot of extra flack being dished out which seems to relate to her being female and/or attractive. What are people expecting from a video trying to sell a game!?
I ordered after the run through - I was likely going to anyway but I liked what I saw of the mechanics and since its 1-5 players thats pretty good.
Glancing at her videos - GW ones are her being very tonned down eg:
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Post by: Strg Alt
 Mr Morden wrote:Having watched a number of preview or how to play videos from other games review sites - they all come across as super super enuisiastic and the game is always the best thing ever -especially if its KS related. I esepcially remember the ones about Dropfleet.....
In this case she was being paid to do so (as effectively was everyone round the table), I personally watched it all and found it interesting and useful - I also have been Peachy on a number of occassions getting frustrated that you can't seem to do anything (usually when you have done something stupid) - also the whole who attacks who rang true.
There does seem to be alot of extra flack being dished out which seems to relate to her being female and/or attractive. What are people expecting from a video trying to sell a game!?
I ordered after the run through - I was likely going to anyway but I liked what I saw of the mechanics and since its 1-5 players thats pretty good.
No, you are wrong. Take a look at my post on page 54. I have absolutely nothing against attractive females, it is only her presentation style that bothered me. There is no need to be a White Knight in this case. But thanks to H.B.M.C.´s revelation there is another reason to avoid her.
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Post by: hvg3akaek
deano2099 wrote:Though far more annoying than any of that is the director, seemingly the same one who does the Warhammer Conquest videos, who seems to go “hey, perform into this camera, then we will film you from a different one from the side.” I know it’s to break up the to camera bits but it’s horribly artificial and annoying.
Oh, this, so very much this! It is such a bizarre and annoying "technique"! I can't watch videos that do this - I had to bring up other windows to cover it, and resort to listening only, which meant I didn't get the full detail of mechanics / board pieces etc.
I've had to sit through "training" videos at work using this dreadful practice as well, and it just is befuddling as to why anyone thinks we want to watch someone talk off-screen like that...
Anyway, I felt that the gameplay was a little too simplistic for me - no real customisations with the heroes, no decisions for the bad guys. I was hoping for a light DnD-esque game set in the 40k world, but this feels more like an overly long game of Monopoly. Even the old (original) WHQ had more choices in it, and the recent DnD Adventures felt more exploratory (and scaled!!). Rather disappointed, currently.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Mr Morden wrote:
I ordered after the run through - I was likely going to anyway but I liked what I saw of the mechanics and since its 1-5 players thats pretty good.
Even better, the game supports any number of players. There are always exactly 4 heroes but as long as you work out how one player controls several heroes, or several players control a single hero, you can have anywhere from 1 player to hundreds of players!
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
lord_blackfang wrote: Mr Morden wrote:
I ordered after the run through - I was likely going to anyway but I liked what I saw of the mechanics and since its 1-5 players thats pretty good.
Even better, the game supports any number of players. There are always exactly 4 heroes but as long as you work out how one player controls several heroes, or several players control a single hero, you can have anywhere from 1 player to hundreds of players!
Twitch plays Blackstone Fortress.
I can imagine 1d4chan organizing something like that for gaks and giggles.
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Post by: Mr Morden
lord_blackfang wrote: Mr Morden wrote:
I ordered after the run through - I was likely going to anyway but I liked what I saw of the mechanics and since its 1-5 players thats pretty good.
Even better, the game supports any number of players. There are always exactly 4 heroes but as long as you work out how one player controls several heroes, or several players control a single hero, you can have anywhere from 1 player to hundreds of players!
yeah its just like Last Night on earth etc - you can play one or multiple hereo's - it really does not matter.
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Post by: Manchu
This thread is about Blackstone Fortress.
Please start a different thread if you want to carry on discussing Becca Scott.
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Post by: godardc
 Yodhrin wrote:Jesus, what happened to those Marines. Did they take a few days off and bring in some Stormcast to sub, or just *really* skipped leg day? o_0
It's a lovely "holding court" scene, but those Marines are downright dainty.
What's wrong with their legs ?
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Post by: Yodhrin
 godardc wrote: Yodhrin wrote:Jesus, what happened to those Marines. Did they take a few days off and bring in some Stormcast to sub, or just *really* skipped leg day? o_0
It's a lovely "holding court" scene, but those Marines are downright dainty.
What's wrong with their legs ?
The reference to Stormcast and the word "dainty" didn't make the issue clear? OK - their legs are thin. Freakishly thin, for Marines. They look like they're wearing Stormcast molded armour, not the chunky greaves and big honkin' plate-feet of a Marine.
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Post by: drbored
Yodhrin wrote: godardc wrote: Yodhrin wrote:Jesus, what happened to those Marines. Did they take a few days off and bring in some Stormcast to sub, or just *really* skipped leg day? o_0
It's a lovely "holding court" scene, but those Marines are downright dainty.
What's wrong with their legs ?
The reference to Stormcast and the word "dainty" didn't make the issue clear? OK - their legs are thin. Freakishly thin, for Marines. They look like they're wearing Stormcast molded armour, not the chunky greaves and big honkin' plate-feet of a Marine.
I disagree. I think the issue is just that black is a slimming color, and therefore they look thin because of that. Compared to a Primaris, they look very similar in proportions.
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Post by: warboss
For those not sure what the discussion is about, I believe Yodhrin is referring to this pic.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
He means in the art. I think they look great in the art, fitting a more realistic look.
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Post by: warboss
Thanks; I got that after I traced the comment back and looked at the earlier link.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
No worries, I saw that after I posted, you had already edited.
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Post by: Chopstick
Anyone know about the facing of the D6, D8, D12 special dice?
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Post by: Yodhrin
Different strokes I guess, Space Marines aren't supposed to look "realistic" IMO, they're supposed to look like 7+ foot tall walking tanks made of muscle and armour.
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
I forget sometimes anyone can have a reaction to topknots that is something other than absolute loathing.
Every single model I've ever gotten with a topknot I've shaved off, often I clip it off at the sprue. They look incredibly doofy and I don't blame anyone for hating them. Thankfully they're easy to remove.
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Post by: Leggy
I'm also curious about this, from a stats point of view
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Post by: masterdoobie
I'm not sure if I just have no willpower or the fact that Blackstone Fortress was slightly cheaper than the leak that came out earlier, but I've already pre-ordered it and am very excited about playing the game in our school club. I think if I can get my hands on a copy of silver tower then all the bases would be covered.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Gonna bundle it with a bunch of Sector Mechanicus terrain to save on shipping.
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Post by: Flinty
H.B.M.C. wrote:Gonna bundle it with a bunch of Sector Mechanicus terrain to save on shipping.
Are you seeking any help for that particular addiction?
Not to stop, of course, but you might need help lifting it all or something
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Nah, nah. It's cool. This is all I need to complete the Necromunda stuff.
Then it's onto a Death World table.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
H.B.M.C. wrote:Nah, nah. It's cool. This is all I need to complete the Necromunda stuff.
Then it's onto a Death World table.
Come on, we all know you're building a plastic house for yourself 
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Post by: Flinty
Don't laugh, it's been done before
https://youtu.be/8Fn6DVi32vs
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Post by: Strg Alt
 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I forget sometimes anyone can have a reaction to topknots that is something other than absolute loathing.
Every single model I've ever gotten with a topknot I've shaved off, often I clip it off at the sprue. They look incredibly doofy and I don't blame anyone for hating them. Thankfully they're easy to remove.
Well, the only bad thing about topknots are imo their tendency to snap, if you not handle them with care. But this also the case with horns attached to CSM helmets. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmm, they have definitely the longest legs attached to a CSM body that I have seen. I can envision them doing a victory dance choreography after a battle which would put the Pussycat Dolls to shame. So let´s welcome our new chaotic unit powered by Slaanesh:
The Chippendale Marines
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Post by: Geifer
drbored wrote:So who else is going to chop the top-knot off of the Chaos leader?
I'm tempted to give Black Hammer a better skin color along with a fro and a ho. You dig?
 warboss wrote:For those not sure what the discussion is about, I believe Yodhrin is referring to this pic.
I can see it. It certainly doesn't look like a typical Marine silhouette to me. I might not even have recognized them as Marines instantly if it weren't for the backpack vents.
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Post by: Scrub
Hah, that chart is quite fun! Safe to say that I'm really looking forward to this now.
Mulling over the characters again however, I think I'm going to have to convert Janus Draik a bit... that cigarette isn't half annoying me.. a pistol, dagger or gadget of some description would be far more fitting I think.
(Can't stand the ol' ciggies, be that in life or miniature plastic! )
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Post by: Daedalus81
I'm thinking the chaos lord will make a suitable Abaddon stand-in until the real deal arrives.
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Post by: oomiestompa
In my headcanon, Draik has a vape pen, not a cigarette.
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Post by: warboss
Daedalus81 wrote:I'm thinking the chaos lord will make a suitable Abaddon stand-in until the real deal arrives.
A guy in power armor with a thunder hammer and a plasma pistol is a good stand in for a terminator with demonsword, lightning claw, and combibolter? That's an apples to basketball comparison there IMO but if it works for you and your group then so be it.
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Post by: Crimson
warboss wrote: Daedalus81 wrote:I'm thinking the chaos lord will make a suitable Abaddon stand-in until the real deal arrives.
A guy in power armor with a thunder hammer and a plasma pistol is a good stand in for a terminator with demonsword, lightning claw, and combibolter? That's an apples to basketball comparison there IMO but if it works for you and your group then so be it.
But they both have a top knot!
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Crimson wrote: warboss wrote: Daedalus81 wrote:I'm thinking the chaos lord will make a suitable Abaddon stand-in until the real deal arrives.
A guy in power armor with a thunder hammer and a plasma pistol is a good stand in for a terminator with demonsword, lightning claw, and combibolter? That's an apples to basketball comparison there IMO but if it works for you and your group then so be it.
But they both have a top knot!
Checkmate, warboss.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
I'd been thinking he'd make a decent generic Black Mace lord, since my wife doesn't play Black Legion.
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Post by: Scrub
To be fair, I'd probably turn to Chaos like those poor guardsmen, being stuck in the confines of a spaceship and sharing stale air with 'cherry flavour' vapers!
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Post by: Daedalus81
warboss wrote: Daedalus81 wrote:I'm thinking the chaos lord will make a suitable Abaddon stand-in until the real deal arrives.
A guy in power armor with a thunder hammer and a plasma pistol is a good stand in for a terminator with demonsword, lightning claw, and combibolter? That's an apples to basketball comparison there IMO but if it works for you and your group then so be it.
He's on a 40mm and suitably bulky. No one really cares about stand-ins around here. I probably would have a hard time getting away with it at LVO.
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Post by: Albino Squirrel
That Guerrilla Miniature Games playthrough video has me really excited for the game now. Much better than the terrible Games Workshop playthrough video, which I couldn't make it through more than about a minute of, due to the insufferable host.
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Post by: Scrub
 Albino Squirrel wrote:That Guerrilla Miniature Games playthrough video has me really excited for the game now. Much better than the terrible Games Workshop playthrough video, which I couldn't make it through more than about a minute of, due to the insufferable host.
Really? I thought it was quite alright actually... did a good job of selling the game to me at least. I'm not one for 'play through' vids either as I usually have your reaction to them! 
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Post by: streetsamurai
Daedalus81 wrote:I'm thinking the chaos lord will make a suitable Abaddon stand-in until the real deal arrives.
I think the crack pipe is the greatest thing ever on a mini
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Post by: Wunzlez
I really quite like the miniatures, particularly the chaos stuff; love the renegades of both psyker and guardsman variety.
But I know I'll never play it, or have anyone to play with.
Hope they release some as separate like they did with some of the Silver Tower stuff. Even more hope if there was a chance renegades would get their own, full army, release.
Likely not though, because the renegade stuff is too easily converted from other models.
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Post by: Elbows
I suffered through the initial cringe of the GW how-to-play, and no offense to Becca Scott in the process...I always dislike general corporate backed stuff like that. It became far better once they got into the actual game. It is, more or less an informercial.
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Post by: Desubot
Got a chance to play it
quite a lot of fun.
though little disappointed at the lack of a specifically molded base.
they just come on generic slotted bases.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
In all fairness both of the Sigmar Quests had plain bases as well.
Necromunda and Shadespire seem to be the ones bucking the trends on fancy bases these days.
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Post by: Voss
 Desubot wrote:Got a chance to play it
quite a lot of fun.
though little disappointed at the lack of a specifically molded base.
they just come on generic slotted bases.
Huh. It isn't a problem, but I'm trying to remember the last new plastics that even were slottabases, rather than just push-fit pegs or just flat 'glue feet to base' kind of deals.
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Post by: Chopstick
Voss wrote: Huh. It isn't a problem, but I'm trying to remember the last new plastics that even were slottabases, rather than just push-fit pegs or just flat 'glue feet to base' kind of deals.
All Bloodbowl kits are on slot base. They want this game to be more appealing for the non-hobby gamer, who lack the mental capability to go to the store to buy glue (and tools) for themseves.
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Post by: jullevi
Chopstick wrote:Voss wrote:
Huh. It isn't a problem, but I'm trying to remember the last new plastics that even were slottabases, rather than just push-fit pegs or just flat 'glue feet to base' kind of deals.
All Bloodbowl kits are on slot base. They want this game to be more appealing for the non-hobby gamer, who lack the mental capability to go to the store to buy glue (and tools) for themseves.
If by "all" you mean first 4 out of 10, I guess you are correct. Also, Easy-to-build has nothing to do with "lack of mental capability".
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Post by: cole1114
jullevi wrote:Chopstick wrote:Voss wrote:
Huh. It isn't a problem, but I'm trying to remember the last new plastics that even were slottabases, rather than just push-fit pegs or just flat 'glue feet to base' kind of deals.
All Bloodbowl kits are on slot base. They want this game to be more appealing for the non-hobby gamer, who lack the mental capability to go to the store to buy glue (and tools) for themseves.
If by "all" you mean first 4 out of 10, I guess you are correct. Also, Easy-to-build has nothing to do with "lack of mental capability".
I got my hands messed up by a winch and now gluing stuff aint as easy as it was. So having some easy to build stuff is kinda nice.
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Post by: Chopstick
jullevi wrote: If by "all" you mean first 4 out of 10, I guess you are correct. Also, Easy-to-build has nothing to do with "lack of mental capability".
Hmm, no, correction, only the Newest Nurgle team drop the peg to insert into the slot base, But ALL of blood bowl kit come with slot base (even the Nurgle team), Here's the previous one, which is Dark Elf, still have the peg to insert into slot base. take a look.
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Post by: Sabotage!
Chopstick wrote:jullevi wrote:
If by "all" you mean first 4 out of 10, I guess you are correct. Also, Easy-to-build has nothing to do with "lack of mental capability".
Hmm, no, correction, only the Newest Nurgle team drop the peg to insert into the slot base, But ALL of blood bowl kit come with slot base (even the Nurgle team), Here's the previous one, which is Dark Elf, still have the peg to insert into slot base. take a look.
I definitely wouldn't call the newer BB teams easy to build. I recently put the Chaos team together and it required more time than most 40k kits I have put together. Slotta base does not necessarily mean easy to build. Heck on the Chaos BB team you have to fill the base in, which is far more work than just gluing the model to the base. Also let's not take digs at people for liking easy to build kits or being new hobbyists.
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Post by: Chopstick
 Sabotage! wrote: I definitely wouldn't call the newer BB teams easy to build. I recently put the Chaos team together and it required more time than most 40k kits I have put together. Slotta base does not necessarily mean easy to build. Heck on the Chaos BB team you have to fill the base in, which is far more work than just gluing the model to the base. Also let's not take digs at people for liking easy to build kits or being new hobbyists.
I never said Blood Bowl are easy to build or made for new players. The guy said he didn't see any slot base kit in a long time. For this game (Blackstone Fortress) however, they want it to be easier for a non-hobby player to play, hence the red plastic, easy to build and no glue required.
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Post by: bullyboy
Well, finally watched the Warhammer play through video. I must admit, I'm pretty psyched to play this game. Having never played a dungeon crawler before, I kinda like the idea of all the actions that can be done and that it's not just all kill, kill, kill. Roll on 2 weeks.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
I believe discussions of Blood Bowl Bases can be taken to the Specialist Games Forum.
Thank you for your cooperation.
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Post by: tinbee
How long did it take from the release of Silver Tower before new heroes went on sale? Would be cool if we had a few more options. Here are some random ideas that might make for cool minis:
Ork Freebooter/Blood Axe Scout
Harlequin Mime
Squat Mercenary
Inquisitor (a low ranking one)
Death Watch Scout (hopefully not too op)
Eldar Exodite
Tau Pathfinder
Ogryn
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Post by: Thargrim
I have no real desire to see marines playable in this. They would just be able to go toe to toe with the csm too easy. But stuff like a demiurg, exodite, inquisitor, voidsmen would all be great options. A demiurg would be great though cause a card in this game acknowledges their existence.
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Post by: streetsamurai
Why would a marine be op in this game? The 40k datasheet of the explorer shows that they could take a few marines rather easily
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Post by: Thargrim
streetsamurai wrote:Why would a marine be op in this game? The 40k datasheet of the explorer shows that they could take a few marines rather easily
I could see the robot taking on marines but the ratlings, navigator not so much. I haven't even looked at the 40k datasheets I have no intention of using the explorers in 40k. I'm talking moreso to do with the lore. A single marine should be able to wipe most of these enemies like traitor guardsmen with ease compared to what the kroot guy could do. I'm also glad the obsidius guy sounds tough cause he should be able to kill all four explorers without breaking a sweat.
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Post by: Chopstick
 Thargrim wrote: streetsamurai wrote:Why would a marine be op in this game? The 40k datasheet of the explorer shows that they could take a few marines rather easily
I could see the robot taking on marines but the ratlings, navigator not so much.
Navigator is actually one of the strongest character in the team, Psychic Barrier protect him and allies against attack and the Third Eye blasting people to oblivion. Now that I think about it, only the Ratling, the zealot and the Kroot do not have protection against attack. The other are well equipped with armor or rare relic like Rosarius or Phase Crystal.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
tinbee wrote:How long did it take from the release of Silver Tower before new heroes went on sale? Would be cool if we had a few more options. Here are some random ideas that might make for cool minis:
Ork Freebooter/Blood Axe Scout
Harlequin Mime
Squat Mercenary
Inquisitor (a low ranking one)
Death Watch Scout (hopefully not too op)
Eldar Exodite
Tau Pathfinder
Ogryn
None of these exist as single models in plastic, so the chances are slim to none outside of a major Blackstone Fortress expansion.
What's far more likely, at least for the initial releases, are things like the Fireblade, Succubus, Haemonculus, that blasted Commissar everyone has, maybe an Ork Mek or Painboy, a low level Shadowseer or Autarch, and the Techpriest Enginseer.
I do hope we get proper character releases for this game, real expansions and further adventures within the Blackstone Fortress. I expect a reboxing of existing plastic minis however.
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Post by: Stormonu
I'd say if GW were smart, they'd sell a mini-box with 4-5 minis in it, from tinbee's list.
Add in:
Escher lieutenant
Goliath facebreaker
Van Saar henchman
Admech Dominus
Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau
maybe that old half-eldar marine Ultramarine captain....
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Escher lieutenant
Goliath facebreaker
Van Saar henchman
Why would three random gangers from minor houses from one hive on a single planet be all the way over there?
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Post by: Chikout
tinbee wrote:How long did it take from the release of Silver Tower before new heroes went on sale? Would be cool if we had a few more options. Here are some random ideas that might make for cool minis:
Ork Freebooter/Blood Axe Scout
Harlequin Mime
Squat Mercenary
Inquisitor (a low ranking one)
Death Watch Scout (hopefully not too op)
Eldar Exodite
Tau Pathfinder
Ogryn
Silver tower never had any new miniatures at all, just hero cards for existing minis. The first one of those came I white dwarf the week silver tower launched and there was a hero box set of old minis within a month.
Hopefully the plans are more ambitious this time around.
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Post by: Dread Master
I think design-wise, BSF is being seen as an opportunity to delve into the background material of 40k, and I expect gw to do just that with the expansions. I don’t see them reboxing existing models for this, as Killteam has that end of things covered with the Commanders release. I could be wrong, but I think this is them paying attention to what folks find appealing in things like inq28 and Blanchitsu and tapping into that.
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Post by: GoatboyBeta
Maybe not re-boxing, but a set of cards to use existing models wouldn't surprise me.
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Post by: Dread Master
Maybe. I think the issue with the clam pack characters from 40k getting cards is that being HQ level characters they should be on a par with Obsidius, who is meant to be a threat that could wipe the whole party. It just doesn’t fit well thematically. This leads me to think we’ll see brand new stuff, and probably pregen like the chars in the boxed set, with the rank and file enemies being obscure, with no intent to expand them into armies, or previews of things that will get expanded on in 40k.
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Post by: Chopstick
I'm more interest in Shadespire/Night vault style explorer-band, 3-4 characters, enough for a party, along with ship and some cards.
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Post by: fresus
When they first released Silver Tower, they didn't really intended to have expansions for it. The game was a pretty big success, which is why they eventually released additional stuff, but then it was just cards/new game structure, without new minis (because these take a lot longer to make).
This time around it's different. Expansions are planned from the get-go. I'm pretty sure there are some new minis already in the pipes.
If I had to guess, I think the expansions will be rather big: 2-4 explorers + ~3 groups of hostiles (from the same "team", like all drones, all ur-ghuls etc.), and appropriate tiles/cards.
They could even mix old and new models to increase their margin (something we see quite often with GW). For instance a bunch of old necrons (with maybe a new kit for one of the unit), and a couple a brand new explorers.
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Post by: cole1114
H.B.M.C. wrote:tinbee wrote:How long did it take from the release of Silver Tower before new heroes went on sale? Would be cool if we had a few more options. Here are some random ideas that might make for cool minis:
Ork Freebooter/Blood Axe Scout
Harlequin Mime
Squat Mercenary
Inquisitor (a low ranking one)
Death Watch Scout (hopefully not too op)
Eldar Exodite
Tau Pathfinder
Ogryn
None of these exist as single models in plastic, so the chances are slim to none outside of a major Blackstone Fortress expansion.
What's far more likely, at least for the initial releases, are things like the Fireblade, Succubus, Haemonculus, that blasted Commissar everyone has, maybe an Ork Mek or Painboy, a low level Shadowseer or Autarch, and the Techpriest Enginseer.
I do hope we get proper character releases for this game, real expansions and further adventures within the Blackstone Fortress. I expect a reboxing of existing plastic minis however.
They've said they're going to be doing expansions, so that ups their chances quite a bit.
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Post by: torgoch
I see what you did there... and I will buy five copies if this happens!
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Post by: Sabotage!
Chopstick wrote:I'm more interest in Shadespire/Night vault style explorer-band, 3-4 characters, enough for a party, along with ship and some cards.
Me too. Maybe offer "hero packs" with a few heroes and their accompanying cards, and "villain packs" with a group of hostiles or a big hostile and their cards. Maybe occasionally do a big expansion with a few new tiles, general cards, some heroes and 3 or 4 types of hostiles.
Personally I want to see an Inquisitor/ Interrogator and a Storm Trooper/Mercenary run and gun midrange type hero. As far as baddies go my list is far too long.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
H.B.M.C. wrote:Escher lieutenant
Goliath facebreaker
Van Saar henchman
Why would three random gangers from minor houses from one hive on a single planet be all the way over there?
Night out on the razz got really out of hand?
Me, I'm quite intrigued at the Ur-Ghul's presence.
There's mention they're ' native to the Webway', and nobody is quite sure how they got aboard the Blackstone. Two obvious explanations? There's a Webway/Dolmen Gate on the Blackstone Fortress. And it's at least partially active, or functioning. Or.....the Ur-Ghul are in fact debased Old Ones...
Ur does typically mean 'First', as already mentioned elsewhere. Ghul apparently means demon, going on the translation of Ra's Al Ghul in Batman (The Chief Demon).
Almost certainly the former I'd say (allowing more Eldar to be introduced). But the latter could be an interesting one.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sabotage! wrote:Chopstick wrote:I'm more interest in Shadespire/Night vault style explorer-band, 3-4 characters, enough for a party, along with ship and some cards.
Me too. Maybe offer "hero packs" with a few heroes and their accompanying cards, and "villain packs" with a group of hostiles or a big hostile and their cards. Maybe occasionally do a big expansion with a few new tiles, general cards, some heroes and 3 or 4 types of hostiles.
Personally I want to see an Inquisitor/ Interrogator and a Storm Trooper/Mercenary run and gun midrange type hero. As far as baddies go my list is far too long.
Reckon those packs can double up as hero and villain packs without much effort on GW's part. That'd be cool.
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Post by: Kdash
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:Escher lieutenant
Goliath facebreaker
Van Saar henchman
Why would three random gangers from minor houses from one hive on a single planet be all the way over there?
Night out on the razz got really out of hand?
Me, I'm quite intrigued at the Ur-Ghul's presence.
There's mention they're 'native to the Webway', and nobody is quite sure how they got aboard the Blackstone. Two obvious explanations? There's a Webway/Dolmen Gate on the Blackstone Fortress. And it's at least partially active, or functioning. Or.....the Ur-Ghul are in fact debased Old Ones...
Ur does typically mean 'First', as already mentioned elsewhere. Ghul apparently means demon, going on the translation of Ra's Al Ghul in Batman (The Chief Demon).
Almost certainly the former I'd say (allowing more Eldar to be introduced). But the latter could be an interesting one.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there were active/forgotten/lost webway gates on the blackstone fortresses, given their historical links.
As for the Ur-Ghuls, it could be one of many things, from them being the first actual daemons, or, the first Daemon like creature the Eldar came across, and then subsequently game them a super imaginative name.
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Post by: BertBert
Dread Master wrote:I think design-wise, BSF is being seen as an opportunity to delve into the background material of 40k, and I expect gw to do just that with the expansions. I don’t see them reboxing existing models for this, as Killteam has that end of things covered with the Commanders release. I could be wrong, but I think this is them paying attention to what folks find appealing in things like inq28 and Blanchitsu and tapping into that.
I think you are spot-on with this notion. I expect this to become an outlet for the "forgotten" parts of 40k that will most likely never see a big release because they are just at too small in scale.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
I'm also against simple reboxing.
If BFS is to be genuinely it's own thing (and whilst not promised, I think there's implication of that), we need to see entirely new models for it.
Some can be new sculpts of existing stuff. Ref Ranger, Kroot and Ratlings. The rest need to be entirely new. Ref Navigator, Robot.
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Post by: Azazelx
I'd happily see character card packs with LOTS of cards in them, and perhaps some multi-figure reboxings with a substantial discount baked in, as they did with Silver Tower. My biggest fear is ridiculously overpriced a la carte characters as we've seen with Kill Team's reboxed heroes. Using new sculpts instead doesn't make that gak okay.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
There I disagree.
The Commanders thing irks me, because it's an existing sculpt. That to me feels different to a new sculpt released for a specific game.
Dunno. I appreciate it's splitting hairs to some degree, but I hope you get what I mean.
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Post by: Azazelx
Oh, I get what you mean. I just disagree completely.
Not at the prices that they're asking for the KT ones, repack *or* new models. I wouldn't be okay with that at all.
I fear that it's exactly what they'll do, though.
I'd rather that they follow the boardgame model and release addtional heroes via proper expansions, but I think the single-model box is what they will choose to do instead.
But yeah, I'd really like it if they would sell card packs (ST-style) that would allow the use of as many as possible/all of the current existing character model range (including those that they have just finished reboxing for KT.), and some multi-hero reboxings at a discount.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
I'm hoping we see both.
Card packs for existing characters does make sense. Relatively cheap to produce, reasonable outlay for us Nerds, and gives us greater variety going forward.
But in terms of character expansions, in the style of Old Quest? Pic for clarity for other readers...
That I'd be ok paying £20ish for, provided it's an all new model, and even character class.
They could improve this by instead producing boxed sets of adventurers. Think Shadepsire (my word those are a bargain! £17.50 each!), but with 40k themes.
Imagine one for each branch of the Inquisition (because there's not just going to be one Inquisitor sniffing around. That's not how they work. Not how they work at all!), one for Adeptus Mechanicus ( mmm....specialist Magos models!), one for Orks (Freebooterz, natch). Eldar Warlock with hand picked cronies (again, we might see other Paths represented, beyond Warrior), Archon much the same.
Essentially, just give me more. Now. Or I'll cry
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Post by: Glumy
Im all for expansions and new characters. From what i have seen i will really, really like this game.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Gonna start a new topic in 40k Discussion for that I think. Save clogging up the rumour section!
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Post by: Azazelx
I'd be very happy with Shadespire type packs. Single models? Nope.
Remember, AU pricing, so the cheapest I can get £20 product for is around £23. That's my "maximum discount", and involves getting them directly from the UK via ...ways and a couple of weeks' wait time.
There's no 20% off £20 here. If I could actually get things for £16 here, then I'd be much more okay with many things. You of all people should be understanding/sympathetic to the way that GW rig their prices to screw everyone else, so what's reasonable to you (even before discount!) almost always works out to feth over the rest of the world.
The AU price for the £20 boxes works out to just shy of £31. I'd bought EVERYTHING for Kill Team up to the point when they released those in the way that they did, so I'm not exactly a complete tightarse. Give me value, and I'll buy. Make me feel like product is a ripoff and I won't - or I'll find alternatives in various forms.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Plus we're not factoring the arbitrary blanket price for KT Commanders.
Sometimes (namely Primaris characters) they are cheaper in the KT Commander box. Others, like the Commissar and a lot of the smaller HQ types, are vastly more expensive than just buying them separately.
That kinda stuff is crazy, and we don't want to see it repeated for Blackstone Fortress, even with new sculpts.
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Post by: xerxeshavelock
Small crews of ships would be cool. 5/6 characters and a ship. The support ability could be based on who gets left behind. You could even try it with less Explorers and get more support abilities.
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Post by: Albertorius
Dunno, I'd personally prefer to see full expansion boxes similar to (for example) the ones FFG does for Imperial Assault or Mansions of Madness, either the big or the small ones. That way you could add missions, entire story arcs and additional, different tiles too.
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Post by: OrkPlayer137
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I think a good candidate for a new model would be an Eye of the Emperor, i.e. an old retired Custodian Guard, who roams the Imperium only in simple robes without the usual Custodian wargear.
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Post by: Strg Alt
tinbee wrote:How long did it take from the release of Silver Tower before new heroes went on sale? Would be cool if we had a few more options. Here are some random ideas that might make for cool minis:
Ork Freebooter/Blood Axe Scout
Harlequin Mime
Squat Mercenary
Inquisitor (a low ranking one)
Death Watch Scout (hopefully not too op)
Eldar Exodite
Tau Pathfinder
Ogryn
You forgot Sly Marbo.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thargrim wrote:I have no real desire to see marines playable in this. They would just be able to go toe to toe with the csm too easy. But stuff like a demiurg, exodite, inquisitor, voidsmen would all be great options. A demiurg would be great though cause a card in this game acknowledges their existence.
I second this. No SM player characters. This game should be a challenge and not a snoozefest.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Stormonu wrote:I'd say if GW were smart, they'd sell a mini-box with 4-5 minis in it, from tinbee's list.
Add in:
Escher lieutenant
Goliath facebreaker
Van Saar henchman
Admech Dominus
Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau
maybe that old half-eldar marine Ultramarine captain....
This will never happen. Characters of Necromunda are confined to the Necromunda boardgame and won´t see face time in any other GW product.
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Post by: privateer4hire
Didn't see anyone mention (missed it) the possibility of the Rogue Trader KT heroes getting a ship card and stats for BSF.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
 privateer4hire wrote:Didn't see anyone mention (missed it) the possibility of the Rogue Trader KT heroes getting a ship card and stats for BSF.
That would be a good way to salvage that mess.
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Post by: Pilum
I second this. No SM player characters. This game should be challenge and not a snoozefest.
While I agree here (I would except a scout, perhaps, seeing as you could draw an equivalent with the Ranger, but then why is a scout isolated from his chapter at the arse-end of nowhere?), if I had to do it I'd go full bore on it. Ok, you're space marines. We'll even give you lore-appropriate stats. Cool eh? But you're ALL marines. No choices. You're a boarding party, and the explorers who found this place woke it up. Automatic reinforcements. Maybe even an extra group of baddies in each encounter or something. And each 'run' you make costs you a 'time' point, get to zero and you lose because the baddies got their Evil Plan underway. No bugging out back to Precipice just because someone took a hit or two, you're Space Marines after all!
Basically, welcome to speed-run hard mode.
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Post by: Crimson
If they want add marines, a Deatwatch marine would make most sense. I don't think the power is a problem, as the robot is clearly more powerful than a single marine.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Single Marines can run around with other random adventurers just fine, see 40k RPG.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Pilum wrote:I second this. No SM player characters. This game should be challenge and not a snoozefest.
While I agree here (I would except a scout, perhaps, seeing as you could draw an equivalent with the Ranger, but then why is a scout isolated from his chapter at the arse-end of nowhere?), if I had to do it I'd go full bore on it. Ok, you're space marines. We'll even give you lore-appropriate stats. Cool eh? But you're ALL marines. No choices. You're a boarding party, and the explorers who found this place woke it up. Automatic reinforcements. Maybe even an extra group of baddies in each encounter or something. And each 'run' you make costs you a 'time' point, get to zero and you lose because the baddies got their Evil Plan underway. No bugging out back to Precipice just because someone took a hit or two, you're Space Marines after all!
Basically, welcome to speed-run hard mode.
Because Scouts aren't just recruits. See the fluff about Telion or Naaman or Cyrus.
I'd be fine with a Scout. It'd be a way to finally have a "veteran" Scout shown off.
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Post by: Mysterio
I'd love it if Marines make it into future BSF releases - and given their place in the history/story/sales numbers...I think it is a matter of 'when' NOT 'if'!
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Post by: zedmeister
 Mysterio wrote:I'd love it if Marines make it into future BSF releases - and given their place in the history/story/sales numbers...I think it is a matter of 'when' NOT 'if'!
Only as a Blackshield type or a renegade (not Traitor) Marine seeking to stay low for some reason.
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Post by: streetsamurai
H.B.M.C. wrote:tinbee wrote:How long did it take from the release of Silver Tower before new heroes went on sale? Would be cool if we had a few more options. Here are some random ideas that might make for cool minis: Ork Freebooter/Blood Axe Scout Harlequin Mime Squat Mercenary Inquisitor (a low ranking one) Death Watch Scout (hopefully not too op) Eldar Exodite Tau Pathfinder Ogryn
None of these exist as single models in plastic, so the chances are slim to none outside of a major Blackstone Fortress expansion. What's far more likely, at least for the initial releases, are things like the Fireblade, Succubus, Haemonculus, that blasted Commissar everyone has, maybe an Ork Mek or Painboy, a low level Shadowseer or Autarch, and the Techpriest Enginseer. I do hope we get proper character releases for this game, real expansions and further adventures within the Blackstone Fortress. I expect a reboxing of existing plastic minis however.
That would be terrible imo. Really hope they don't shovel in the game every character that have a plastic kit a la ST. Especially Ork, I don't want a Ork as a special character. Yeah I know about blood axe, but I see them doing mercenary work together, not one alone hanging out with a bunch of humies Automatically Appended Next Post:  Azazelx wrote: Oh, I get what you mean. I just disagree completely. Not at the prices that they're asking for the KT ones, repack *or* new models. I wouldn't be okay with that at all. I fear that it's exactly what they'll do, though. I'd rather that they follow the boardgame model and release addtional heroes via proper expansions, but I think the single-model box is what they will choose to do instead. But yeah, I'd really like it if they would sell card packs ( ST-style) that would allow the use of as many as possible/all of the current existing character model range (including those that they have just finished reboxing for KT.), and some multi-hero reboxings at a discount.
I'd be willing to pay a arm and a leg for new character box like there was in the old WHQ
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Post by: EnTyme
Spoken like someone who never had a random player decide to play a Space Marine in a Dark Heresy game.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
The obvious thing to do would be to put in the guys from Rogue Trader, (Starstriders?) or is that already in the cards?
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Post by: Inquisitor Kallus
Aha haaa, just fine. Yeah, ok, you obviously didn't play the games then or just ignored the fact that a special set of rules had to be made (Black Crusade) that allowed Marines and other characters to exist 'in harmony' whilst playing together in the same game. There is a reason Marines were split off into 'Deathwatch' amd also why the main Chaos dude in BSF is classed as an extremely difficult challenge, they massively skew things combat wise if games are true to the background. Im not saying marines can't or shouldn't be included but they are powerful. They will undoubtedly be included in a supplement but will see caveats/increases in enemy number to compensate/be part of full marine squads and the like Automatically Appended Next Post:  Kid_Kyoto wrote:The obvious thing to do would be to put in the guys from Rogue Trader, (Starstriders?) or is that already in the cards?
* BA DUM TSSH*
Seriously though, i'd hope to see them in White Dwarf or similar
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Post by: Geifer
Kid_Kyoto wrote:The obvious thing to do would be to put in the guys from Rogue Trader, (Starstriders?) or is that already in the cards?
So far all we have is a promise of future support for the game. No specifics yet.
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Post by: Ghaz
For those of you who want to base your minis like those seen on the box, Warhammer TV has posted a fairly simple tutorial.
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Post by: Mr Morden
 EnTyme wrote:
Spoken like someone who never had a random player decide to play a Space Marine in a Dark Heresy game.
If they are roughly the same power level it works fine.
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Post by: Haighus
They could add a Deathwatch scout sent to investigate, or maybe a scout who has been exiled on a personal penitent crusade, like Ventris was. I think PA Marines would be a poor fit though, unless they had some other weaknesses (perhaps a crippled Marine who spends his days wandering the outer reaches- still a threat, but far from his full potential). Any Space Marines need to be off their A-game in some way.
The retired Custodes with no armour would also be an interesting and unique mini.
I really hope we see some Inquisition stuff, like henchmen and Interrogators. The Inquisition should be the next Imperial body to arrive after Rogue Traders. Perhaps an expansion with an interrogator, some henchmen, and an Officio Sabatorum agent just in case the BSF is considered too big a threat to leave intact?
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Post by: Mr Morden
xerxeshavelock wrote:Small crews of ships would be cool. 5/6 characters and a ship. The support ability could be based on who gets left behind. You could even try it with less Explorers and get more support abilities.
Especially if they made little models of the shps we could use for ship games
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Post by: lord_blackfang
 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:
Aha haaa, just fine. Yeah, ok, you obviously didn't play the games then or just ignored the fact that a special set of rules had to be made (Black Crusade) that allowed Marines and other characters to exist 'in harmony' whilst playing together in the same game.
You obviously didn't play Wrath and Glory then. You know, the current version of GW's view on how adventuring in the 40k galaxy works.
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Post by: Elbows
This is where they need to dig intot he old (read: original) WHQ's past.
One of the reasons the original Warhammer Quest was a huge success was because it allowed players to buy a box - get a full game, and then expand into the rest of the Warhammer Fantasy range. Also, the characters released in those small character boxes were unique sculpts. Which meant you had WHQ players grabbing them up, and then Warhammer Fantasy players who wanted unique sculpts (as all of the characters were more or less miniatures you could use in normal Warhammer Fantasy). That continues till this day. I sell minis on commission on eBay and I can sell 15-20 old Dwarf Slayers for about $30....and I can sell the single Dwarf Slayer from Warhammer Quest for $20 solo. He's not anything particularly special. The sculpt is pretty standard Slayer fare, but he's unique.
Unique Warhammer characters which are BSF boxes but can be played in 40K would grab plenty of sales...but mainly if they're unique sculpts. Sadly GW loves charging an arm and a leg for plastic unique sculpts...so that sucks.
Put a new plastic character in a box, add in a new ship card, a few extra cards for some of the decks in BSF, maybe a new event card or two (or challenge card or whatever). Make it a tiny mini-expansion, and charge $30 and you'd sell plenty. Or...do micro-expansions of a new character and 3-5 bad guy minis (even if these are re-purposed 40K minis), and all the cards and doo-dads for $40-45 and you'd probably sell some as well. BSF looks advanced enough that they could add a lot of tokens, doo-dads, cards, etc. to warrant the price they normally charge for a plastic sprued character.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
lord_blackfang wrote:You obviously didn't play Wrath and Glory then. You know, the current version of GW's view on how adventuring in the 40k galaxy works.
Not everyone has that and/or have any interest in playing it.
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Post by: Yodhrin
lord_blackfang wrote: Inquisitor Kallus wrote:
Aha haaa, just fine. Yeah, ok, you obviously didn't play the games then or just ignored the fact that a special set of rules had to be made (Black Crusade) that allowed Marines and other characters to exist 'in harmony' whilst playing together in the same game.
You obviously didn't play Wrath and Glory then. You know, the current version of GW's view on how adventuring in the 40k galaxy works.
By all accounts not many people do.
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Post by: No One Important
I really hope that GW does include Space Marines because it will be the only way to see Deathwatch Kill-Marines/Fallen Angels/Exiles/Pirates/etc in their native environment.
Even at full fluffy Angel of Death power level, balancing them seems pretty simple considering the complexity of BSF and the number of features it has. Using a Marine could bump up the rolls on enemy AI for a forced higher difficulty or count as two hero choices out of the four, though neither of those are ideal as they would impact all players to the same degree and therefore make the game harder for the non-Marine characters. Luckily BSF has a number of mechanics to work with, such as forbidding Marines from using the destiny dice (they walk their own path), not having a ship and its associated abilities (they had to bum a ride), having no inspired mode (they're already at peak performance), doing poorly at challenges (they're here to kill things, not stare at rocks), requiring higher rolls to perform some "basic" attacks (limited ammo means using rolls of 2+ for firing his bolter), or some combination of those.
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
I really really hope we don't get marines. It's really nice to see something where marines are not front and center the focus of the game and the only ones who do show up are an "oh gak" final boss.
Adding marines would really ruin that. We don't need marines in every single thing guys, some stuff they're just not meant to be used for. This game was meant for single agents up to their own goals, marines don't do that. Even if you could justify it somehow, great, you've thrown in a guy who should technically be almost as strong as the final boss, when the game was balanced around him being able to kill your whole team solo. It just won't work without completely screwing up the balance. UR025 is the closest thing and he apparently gets around it by being super slow.
Let this game get all the weird and wonderful oddball characters that will never see the light of day for models otherwise. We do not need primaris LT #435, we need a demiurg merchant house representative, or a former squat Noble looking to restore the honor of his people, or a radical Inquisitor/Inquisitor agent, or a member of the dozens of species we hear about in the background but never see in game, or an upstart enginseer who sees a chance to hoard some archaeotech for himself. Space marines will get a new model every quarter bare minimum, Blackstone fortress does nothing to help them that they weren't going to get anyways.
The only way they could remotely balance it is allow for a deathwatch Killteam mode where everyone is a marine and the difficulty is cranked to 12. That would be fun. But trying to mix them in with characters like a single kroot or some ratlings is a recipe for disaster.
I will say I think we'll see some more characters that are based off existing sculpts. If you look closely in one of the art pieces, theres a few of the characters chatting at precipice. In the foreground somewhat blurry is clearly some sort of Techpriest. I could see that, perhaps some sort of Ork freeboota/blood axe mercenary, and some more eldar characters as easy additions.
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Post by: streetsamurai
just saw in a video that there were some little riddles invovles in the game. Hope there's not too many of them ........
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
This game gave us an actual Man of Iron. I don't see why we'd want GW to create names for each of the 15 Primaris Lieutenants they sell just so they can include them.
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Post by: Chopstick
They'd probably make rule for almost everyone like Silver Tower, and it'll be like a Christmas special.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Running with the Christmas special, if they want to do marines, fine- let the marines do their own missions, with their own encounters, and keep them separate from everything else.
Make it a one off adventure in White Dwarf or something.
It' be great if they got rules (they probably will eventually) but I'm also in the camp that would prefer seeing new and less known bits from the outer edges of the Imperium.
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Post by: Yodhrin
It's a shame the setting makes a mini-expansion allowing an all-Marine party to be chosen from the named characters in DW:Overkill unlikely, given the timeline, that would be a fine way to allow for Marines without it getting into everything. But for real, they will put Marines in eventually, it's Marines. Marines have been depicted doing stuff solo and in small groups before, even when not seconded to the Deathwatch; Iron Snakes off dealing with calls for aid, the Blood Angels from Blood Quest, Templars who're the last/few survivors of a Crusade refusing to abandon their oaths & purpose, Red Hunters in service to an Inquisitor etc etc.
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Post by: Bulldogging
While i would prefer non-marines...well admech to be specific(probably wont happen due to man of iron conflict), I dont understand why people think the marine would be stronger.
They released the 40k stats for these heros...and they arent regular joes. The rogue trader by himself would absolute wreck most marines...multiple at once even. I wont even bother comparing the man of iron to a marine...and the imperium better pray there arent more of them.
We know what power level gw considers the current heros relative to 40k. Unless a random chapter master shows up, im not really concerned about a marine throwing off the balance.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
If they released a Blackstone Fortress: Kill-Team expansion that has a Deathwatch Kill-Team it would not only be really confusing from a branding perspective (!), but it allow a 'Marine Group' in the game without having to find ways of justifying Marines walking around with Ratlings, Eldar Rangers and Men of Iron.
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Post by: Jadenim
Yodhrin wrote:It's a shame the setting makes a mini-expansion allowing an all-Marine party to be chosen from the named characters in DW:Overkill unlikely, given the timeline, that would be a fine way to allow for Marines without it getting into everything. But for real, they will put Marines in eventually, it's Marines. Marines have been depicted doing stuff solo and in small groups before, even when not seconded to the Deathwatch; Iron Snakes off dealing with calls for aid, the Blood Angels from Blood Quest, Templars who're the last/few survivors of a Crusade refusing to abandon their oaths & purpose, Red Hunters in service to an Inquisitor etc etc.
Interesting idea, they did a White Dwarf option for overkill using Scions, so I think it’s possible. And having a Marine only expansion / mission pack would be a good way to solve the balancing issues.
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Post by: Lord Perversor
 Jadenim wrote: Yodhrin wrote:It's a shame the setting makes a mini-expansion allowing an all-Marine party to be chosen from the named characters in DW:Overkill unlikely, given the timeline, that would be a fine way to allow for Marines without it getting into everything. But for real, they will put Marines in eventually, it's Marines. Marines have been depicted doing stuff solo and in small groups before, even when not seconded to the Deathwatch; Iron Snakes off dealing with calls for aid, the Blood Angels from Blood Quest, Templars who're the last/few survivors of a Crusade refusing to abandon their oaths & purpose, Red Hunters in service to an Inquisitor etc etc.
Interesting idea, they did a White Dwarf option for overkill using Scions, so I think it’s possible. And having a Marine only expansion / mission pack would be a good way to solve the balancing issues.
It also hit me that Genestealer cult could be a quick and easy addition for blackstone as a new hostile group.
With all the stranded ships near the Blackstone Fortress it can be easily some of those had a cult within and spreaded into the construction and it's now trapped there. This would also open the possibility for the more odd hybrid since it could be explained as adventurers being infected and remaining with the cult like Orks or Eldar hybrids. 
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Post by: ShortyPreds
Did you see the front of the new Black Library Blackstone Fortress book ? There is a new Character on the side of the Rogue Trader...looks like another kind of navigator or because of its Staff a Psyker ? Could he someone who is in the next Expansion ? ;-)
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Post by: BrookM
That's just a different take on the Navigator already included in the game.
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Post by: Mymearan
 Bulldogging wrote:While i would prefer non-marines...well admech to be specific(probably wont happen due to man of iron conflict), I dont understand why people think the marine would be stronger.
They released the 40k stats for these heros...and they arent regular joes. The rogue trader by himself would absolute wreck most marines...multiple at once even. I wont even bother comparing the man of iron to a marine...and the imperium better pray there arent more of them.
We know what power level gw considers the current heros relative to 40k. Unless a random chapter master shows up, im not really concerned about a marine throwing off the balance.
One marine in the fluff is like 10 marines in 40k. Underpowered Marines is fine in that game because you need to make them viable as an army, but in BSF it would look silly for an Astartes to be weaker than a human character, no matter who it is. He should basically be equivalent to all the rest of the characters put together.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Really? You think a Tactical Marinelet is stronger than a Man of Iron?
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Post by: MistaGav
There's already 3 chaos marines in the boxed game so no reason why they can't include a loyalist one as well. Guarantee though it would be a Primaris and not a regular space marine.
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Post by: Crimson
Yeah, the power is no issue.
Also, I I really don't understand all the people here opposing GW releasing rules for marines and other existing plastic characters. You don't have to use them, but some people might want to. Sure, I want them to make new models for this game too, but that doesn't preclude giving rules to already existing models too. More choice there is the better.
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Post by: zend
Yeah really, there's no point in complaining about making Space Marines look weak when the boss is already a Chaos Space Marine LORD and can be taken out by anyone in the party.
Astartes and Primarchs are already as strong or weak as the fluff requires them to be. That's a major part of why Gathering Storm and other events that led to the Terran Crusade and Ultima Founding are just terrible. Abaddon, who's supposed to be Primarch level at this point, was stopped dead in his tracks by an Inquisitor with relatively weak psyker abilities and then a short while later Guilliman manages to escape from a Daemon Prince who's one of the most powerful pyskers in existence because... Plot. Consistency!
Just make it a Space Wolf Scout sworn to the Deathwatch that wandered off on his own. It's fluffy, and he doesn't need to be terribly powerful. I've already got a model converted for it too.
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
I’d like to see a Marine. But one who’s a renegade or who’s been with the Rogue Trader for decades, so he’s not just “brother so-and-so of the Imperial Fists”, but something wildly unique.
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Post by: Carlovonsexron
I'm in the non marine camp. I'd love for basically everyother faction to be present in the game, but leave astartes and custodes out of it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and nuds aside from genestealer cult would be silly, but then Im kinda skeptical that even stealers wouldnmake it in there.
Id much prefer to see a gallery of new heroes the likes of which have never been seen on tje table top of 40k, amd new enemies to match
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Post by: Mr Morden
A couple of scouting Carcharodons would be cool!
Otherwise I would like to see stuff for both existing and new models........and space ships.
model space ships....
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Post by: Bulldogging
 Mymearan wrote: Bulldogging wrote:While i would prefer non-marines...well admech to be specific(probably wont happen due to man of iron conflict), I dont understand why people think the marine would be stronger.
They released the 40k stats for these heros...and they arent regular joes. The rogue trader by himself would absolute wreck most marines...multiple at once even. I wont even bother comparing the man of iron to a marine...and the imperium better pray there arent more of them.
We know what power level gw considers the current heros relative to 40k. Unless a random chapter master shows up, im not really concerned about a marine throwing off the balance.
One marine in the fluff is like 10 marines in 40k. Underpowered Marines is fine in that game because you need to make them viable as an army, but in BSF it would look silly for an Astartes to be weaker than a human character, no matter who it is. He should basically be equivalent to all the rest of the characters put together.
Which fluff? Ive seen marines killed by non-heroic soldiers(which the characters in blackstone apparently are heroic) many times. In some of the books ive actually felt bad for them.. lol.
Just going by 40ks own fluff there are genetic modifications for non marines that enhance them heavily, and using the rogue trader as an example again(he could easily afford that) he actually has higher tech gear than them.
Id actually find it more immersion breaking if there werent people in the massive...massive..galaxy that couldt take out a mass produced super soldier in average tech.
With that said. Marines should be the last addition. We need more non marine characters. Which reminds me, admech has 1 special character, and they add a robot to the game that admech cant really use. Thanks gw, super cool of you.
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Post by: cole1114
Could do an expansion where you play as a chaos party going up against the fortress's defenses and either the original rogue trader party or new imperium explorers/defenders/etc.
Mallux and some new chaos characters maybe. Or hell, just straight up make Abaddon playable when he gets his new model.
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Post by: Kirasu
Because their game design is "Sell these models to collectors while pretending there is a board game worth playing inside". That's basically every GW board game except the classics designed by Priestley and Chambers.
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Post by: mortar_crew
Would be nice to have an article on the traitor gards...
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Post by: bullyboy
 Kirasu wrote:
Because their game design is "Sell these models to collectors while pretending there is a board game worth playing inside". That's basically every GW board game except the classics designed by Priestley and Chambers.
Except every look I have seen at this game makes it look like a fantastic game...
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Post by: Chairman Aeon
bullyboy wrote: Kirasu wrote:Because their game design is "Sell these models to collectors while pretending there is a board game worth playing inside". That's basically every GW board game except the classics designed by Priestley and Chambers.
Except every look I have seen at this game makes it look like a fantastic game...
FANBOY!
But seriously, looks like they picked a mid point between original and AoS Warhammer Quest. Like to see this dialled in over a few games.
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
The interior of the Fortress is crystalline caverns - that's what the floor of the tiles is - with outcrops and glowing sections underfoot. Amongst that are relics and machinery left by previous explorers.
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Post by: Inquisitor Kallus
lord_blackfang wrote: Inquisitor Kallus wrote:
Aha haaa, just fine. Yeah, ok, you obviously didn't play the games then or just ignored the fact that a special set of rules had to be made (Black Crusade) that allowed Marines and other characters to exist 'in harmony' whilst playing together in the same game.
You obviously didn't play Wrath and Glory then. You know, the current version of GW's view on how adventuring in the 40k galaxy works.
You say works.
It really isn't a particularly good example of roleplaying in the 40k Universe. It is however 'an' example and I have nothing against it or people who want to play it, I even did for a short period of time, it just wasn't particularly good IMO. It certainly doesn't feel 'just fine' having Marines alongside random adventurers, Marines are a big deal, and their combat prowess can and should be head and shoulders above anyone else. Generally Marines are added as somewhat of a tool, a chance to take on something far greater and have odds of surviving/beating that encounter as opposed to a virtual impossibility when tackling something a certain way (usually physically in the case of marines)
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Post by: Perfect Organism
Kirasu wrote:Because their game design is "Sell these models to collectors while pretending there is a board game worth playing inside". That's basically every GW board game except the classics designed by Priestley and Chambers.
I've played Deathwatch: Overkill, Execution Force, Betrayal at Calth, and Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower and enjoyed them all as boardgames. I don't think I've got especially low standards: I play a lot of boardgames with my gaming group and a significant number of them seem worse than the recent GW ones.
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Post by: TwilightSparkles
I was in the "cool models with bits of cardboard" camp but watching the GW Lets play yesterday whilst painting made the game look pretty fun. They need to do more of that type of video and other companies need to get this more professional style video for their product.
I find most wargames/boardgames videos unwatchable due to the awkward/tedious/boring presenters. I'm not against neckbeards doing videos but 95% of them are clueless what makes a good video. I don't want to see more of your fingers than the model or an unboxing which has more to f your face in it than the product. Etc.
The original WHQ Silver Tower is great and Space hulk also, I love they are doing push fit models as I can use them until I get a chance to glue.
As for Marines, it's fluff wise the kind of discovery in universe where the moment the Inquisition knows , you can bet they'd be dispatching multiple Deathwatch Kill Teams in the fastest ships they have, with reinforcements in tow.
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Post by: Voss
That video style isn't GW's. Its Becca's/Geek and Sundry's
Look up the Game the Game video series.
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Post by: timd
Well, that answers the questions about the smooth bases in the pics. You glue the mini down and then file AROUND it to smooth the base instead of filing down the base BEFORE mounting the mini... LOL!
Ghaz wrote:For those of you who want to base your minis like those seen on the box, Warhammer TV has posted a fairly simple tutorial.
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Post by: Mr Morden
Voss wrote:That video style isn't GW's. Its Becca's/Geek and Sundry's
Look up the Game the Game video series.
And it works brilliantly
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Post by: anab0lic
I think my biggest question about this game is does it offer sufficient challenge, I quickly lose interest in dungeon crawler games if you can just kinda steamroll your way through too easily.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Whilst not exactly reassurance, I’ve found Silver Tower to be fairly vicious on the players.
May have just been the characters we picked being a bit rubbish, but we got the snot kicked out of us.
BSF is the same team, so hopefully it’s not a simple walk through.
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Post by: Albino Squirrel
I think the difficulty of Silver Tower seems to depend a lot on which heroes you choose. This may be similar. So you might be able to kind of tune the difficulty by choosing better or worse characters. But also seems like chance can have a huge impact. If you get unlucky and get several sets of enemy reinforcements in a combat, you may be in trouble.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Albino Squirrel wrote:I think the difficulty of Silver Tower seems to depend a lot on which heroes you choose. This may be similar. So you might be able to kind of tune the difficulty by choosing better or worse characters. But also seems like chance can have a huge impact. If you get unlucky and get several sets of enemy reinforcements in a combat, you may be in trouble.
Or if you roll a 1 on a random event and just straight up die. This game is straight out of the 80s.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Silver Tower was ridiculously easy for my group. Did the campaign twice, modding it to be much more punishing (the second time, randomly generating our party every scenario), and still rarely had any worried moments...
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Post by: anab0lic
 spiralingcadaver wrote:Silver Tower was ridiculously easy for my group. Did the campaign twice, modding it to be much more punishing (the second time, randomly generating our party every scenario), and still rarely had any worried moments...
Yeah this is what concerns me, if there is no real tension and difficult tactical decisions to make to overcome threats, it doesn't matter how cool everything looks I'm going to be sat at the table going through the motions pretty bored.
I'll wait for some reviews.
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Post by: Stormonu
H.B.M.C. wrote:Escher lieutenant
Goliath facebreaker
Van Saar henchman
Why would three random gangers from minor houses from one hive on a single planet be all the way over there?
What’s a 10K-year old robot that helped enslave mankind doing working for a Rogue Trader?
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Post by: Inquisitor Kallus
Stormonu wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:Escher lieutenant
Goliath facebreaker
Van Saar henchman
Why would three random gangers from minor houses from one hive on a single planet be all the way over there?
What’s a 10K-year old robot that helped enslave mankind doing working for a Rogue Trader?
He's not 'working for a Rogue Trader', he has joined for personal reasons of interest in the BSF and its technology
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Post by: Mr Morden
Stormonu wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:Escher lieutenant
Goliath facebreaker
Van Saar henchman
Why would three random gangers from minor houses from one hive on a single planet be all the way over there?
What’s a 10K-year old robot that helped enslave mankind doing working for a Rogue Trader?
Another day another dollar.
Also maybe he(?) has a whole different outlook now
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Post by: Stormonu
I was just pointing out how silly it was to question the appearance of three hive hangers when there’s a robot in the group that is easily older than the Imperium itself - as well as depicted as an enemy of mankind in the lore.
Anyways, the article on the tiles made me laugh. Both the drones and the “triangular” shapes on the tile remind me of the Vex mazeworks from Destiny 2. Once again, seems GW only steals from the best (and tries to pass it off as their own unique sort of thing).
Now, just killing time until my copy shows up, and hoping to see some figure expansion packs - good guys or bad - for the game.
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Post by: Inquisitor Kallus
Stormonu wrote:I was just pointing out how silly it was to question the appearance of three hive hangers when there’s a robot in the group that is easily older than the Imperium itself - as well as depicted as an enemy of mankind in the lore.
Anyways, the article on the tiles made me laugh. Both the drones and the “triangular” shapes on the tile remind me of the Vex mazeworks from Destiny 2. Once again, seems GW only steals from the best (and tries to pass it off as their own unique sort of thing).
Now, just killing time until my copy shows up, and hoping to see some figure expansion packs - good guys or bad - for the game.
Questioning three Hive Gangers is...….not silly at all. Theyd have no motivation to be there, theyd be WAAAAY out of there depth. How would they get there? Why would you take 3 gangers along with you, unless theyre part of your retinue, like an Inquisitor, but its highly unlikely theyd all be gangers, from 3 different houses, from one Hive, who are usually mortal enemies. UR_025 has motivation to be there, the weapons/durability to make bringing him along a strong candidate. /
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Post by: Iracundus
Gangers can represent all sorts of shady criminal types, the sort that might hang around a lawless outpost like Precipice. Greed and other agendas mean all sorts of characters work together, even though nominally their creed and ideology might say otherwise. We have Ecclesiarchy and zealots working alongside Eldar and Kroot. Compared to that, a bunch of hive gangers working together is hardly worth commenting about.
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Post by: Inquisitor Kallus
Iracundus wrote:Gangers can represent all sorts of shady criminal types, the sort that might hang around a lawless outpost like Precipice. Greed and other agendas mean all sorts of characters work together, even though nominally their creed and ideology might say otherwise. We have Ecclesiarchy and zealots working alongside Eldar and Kroot. Compared to that, a bunch of hive gangers working together is hardly worth commenting about.
Seriously, what skills and talents or unique traits/weapons could they bring which would make them a genuinely important and worthwhile addition to the party? Necromunda Gangers don't usually leave the hive unless theyre inducted into the guard (spiders) or Imperial Fists,.They couldn't bring anything that couldn't be found elsewhere and much more efficiently. Good shooter? I'll take an Eldar ranger instead. Heavy hitter Goliath, id take an Ork//Robot/fully kitted out crusader or bounty hunter who has already fought numerous times in outer space.Even a Kroot, they have incredible tracking skills over say a Ratskin. Van Saar? Nah, id take a member of the Adeptus Mechanicus or high tech guard/strmtrooper over them. Necromunda gangers are good at fighting on their own turf, but outside of that theyre out of their element with not many transferrable skills to make them a solid choice against the other options available.
"Heres essentially a guardsman, you can take him or you can choose a specialist with better equipment, skills and talents...."
"*waves hand enthusiastically*
"ME MEE!!! I'll take the Guardsman!!!!"
Top o' the class :p
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Post by: Dryaktylus
Kirasu wrote:
Because their game design is "Sell these models to collectors while pretending there is a board game worth playing inside". That's basically every GW board game except the classics designed by Priestley and Chambers.
What are those board game classics from Priestley and Chambers you're talking about? Bommerz over da Sulphur River (Andy Chambers)? 
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Post by: Stormonu
Doesn't it strike anyone odd that they aren't using squares instead of hexagons? Is it to make it compatible in some way with the shadespire tiles? If so, I wonder if my Calth tiles would be usable, if I make a few of my own scenarios...
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Post by: timd
Stormonu wrote:Doesn't it strike anyone odd that they aren't using squares instead of hexagons?
Really! As much as I like hexagons, the Blackstone Fortress is two, four-sided pyramids and two sets of 90 degree crossed arms. EVERYTHING is 90 and 45 degree corners. Where the heck did the hexagons come from?
Would love to see a hexagon based Blackstone Fortress...
T
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Post by: Iracundus
Inquisitor Kallus wrote:Iracundus wrote:Gangers can represent all sorts of shady criminal types, the sort that might hang around a lawless outpost like Precipice. Greed and other agendas mean all sorts of characters work together, even though nominally their creed and ideology might say otherwise. We have Ecclesiarchy and zealots working alongside Eldar and Kroot. Compared to that, a bunch of hive gangers working together is hardly worth commenting about.
Seriously, what skills and talents or unique traits/weapons could they bring which would make them a genuinely important and worthwhile addition to the party? Necromunda Gangers don't usually leave the hive unless theyre inducted into the guard (spiders) or Imperial Fists,.They couldn't bring anything that couldn't be found elsewhere and much more efficiently. Good shooter? I'll take an Eldar ranger instead. Heavy hitter Goliath, id take an Ork//Robot/fully kitted out crusader or bounty hunter who has already fought numerous times in outer space.Even a Kroot, they have incredible tracking skills over say a Ratskin. Van Saar? Nah, id take a member of the Adeptus Mechanicus or high tech guard/strmtrooper over them. Necromunda gangers are good at fighting on their own turf, but outside of that theyre out of their element with not many transferrable skills to make them a solid choice against the other options available.
"Heres essentially a guardsman, you can take him or you can choose a specialist with better equipment, skills and talents...."
"*waves hand enthusiastically*
"ME MEE!!! I'll take the Guardsman!!!!"
Top o' the class :p
The same reason Inquisitors sometimes take Guardsmen into their retinue. Experience, knowledge, and skills that are not necessarily reflected in a tabletop fighting game. The other aspect is that such scum, gangers, or Guardsmen are readily available, expendable, cheap assets that are often ideologically flexible. For situations where more subtlety or lower profile is needed, such characters may attract less attention than a collection of freaks and aliens.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Whilst not exactly reassurance, I’ve found Silver Tower to be fairly vicious on the players.
We never lost a game when we played. I've had my Wizard get OTK'd by a Minotaur during the first event in Oldquest. This game has "Roll a 1 on this chart and insta-die". Quest needs to be unfair. Silver Tower wasn't unfair. I still don't like the tiles because I think they're far too small and weedy -but- I really like their implementation. I think the way the game uses them and the various combat set up cards is clever and I look forward to playing it. Ultimately the Blackstone Fortress tiles are a bit like Thunderwolf Cavalry - I don't like them, but I think the models turned out great.
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Post by: MonkeyBallistic
Stormonu wrote:
Anyways, the article on the tiles made me laugh. Both the drones and the “triangular” shapes on the tile remind me of the Vex mazeworks from Destiny 2. Once again, seems GW only steals from the best (and tries to pass it off as their own unique sort of thing).
.
Yeah, cos Destiny 2 invented triangles right?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
As much as GW invented Space Marines.
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Post by: Chopstick
Tripod monster shooting laser out of its eye, must be original.
If you ask me I'd say the spindle drone remind me of the Sentry Turret from Portal.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
Do we need to list all possible influences in a N&R thread???
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Post by: Sunny Side Up
Don't know the Destiny game (was that a Kickstarter dungeon crawler?)
The Tripods clearly go back to Orsen Wells' War of the Worlds at the very least, if not some earlier Jules Vernes or something like that.
Triangle design/architecture for "alien" is also rather retro. Star Trek the original series. Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. That sorta 60s-70s area of sci-fi used it extensively.
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Post by: Sabotage!
I personally don't see a Hive Ganger being out of the question, though I think if it were implemented it would be more of a character with a Hive Gang background who is now a Mercenary/Bounty Hunter/etc.
I kind of look at like this...there are a LOT of Hive Gangs out there, and the average ganger is far inferior to your average guardsman or even PDF soldiers. But every once in a while you will find an extraordinary individual who is a hive ganger, and once in a great while they will draw the attention of someone like an Inquisitor/Rogue Trader/etc. (someone with the means of elevating them out of their situation).
I guess a good analogy would be pro sports. Lots of players in various games will be drafted by professional teams and go on to play on practice squads/farm teams/college teams, some will develop and play in the pros, but many will just stay at that level for their career. But every once in a great while you'll get an 18 year old kid out of high school or juniors or what not that will go all the way to the pros because of their extraordinary talent.
It's finding ability by virtue of having lots of candidates : ).
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Post by: Sunny Side Up
I don't see the problem. They made Shadow War Armageddon rules for all kinds of factions and models that never every were on or even near Armageddon, due to popular demand. They might do the same here.
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